< 1059610931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is music turing-complete? < 1059611196 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://www.stephensykes.com/choon/choon.html < 1059611341 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I remember that. < 1059611645 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played with it? < 1059611667 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1059612203 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh. The Quack Scheme mode for Emacs automatically turns 'lambda' into a small lambda symbol :D < 1059612233 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/screenshot.png < 1059612280 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How --ahem-- useful... :) < 1059612289 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe. < 1059612293 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I thought it was cute ;) < 1059612860 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very. < 1059612869 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1059613265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eta looks neat too. < 1059613269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1059613567 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1059621099 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1059621099 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1059632918 0 :andreou!~kvik@ppp7.ee.teiath.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1059638399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1059638400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1059640640 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1059671298 0 :andreou!~kvik@ppp6.ee.teiath.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1059671950 0 :docelic!~docelic@ri01-079.dialin.iskon.hr JOIN :#esoteric < 1059671962 0 :docelic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1059673851 0 :lament!~lament@h24-87-69-52.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1059674179 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pragmatic Programmers(tm) replied to my email. < 1059674186 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they say? < 1059674190 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exhibit horrible suckage. < 1059674200 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that goes without saying. < 1059674213 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they probably reserve the right to include your email in their next book. < 1059674217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deleted one of the answers < 1059674226 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here's the other one < 1059674236 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've always felt that Python's OO features has a distinctly "bolted-on" feel, < 1059674240 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they were neither integral nor seemless with the language on the whole. < 1059674242 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby, by comparison, is fully OO from the ground up -- native types included, < 1059674244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1059674247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic names with double underscores, etc. < 1059674250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the gist of it. < 1059674277 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... My momma always used to say that you shouldn't trust someone who can't spell 'seamless'. < 1059674318 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hey - _i_ don't subscribe to their mailing list :) < 1059674326 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. Touché. < 1059674421 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, what is Touche? < 1059674430 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 'got me' or something? < 1059674435 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1059674441 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a fencing term. < 1059674776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There're too many esoteric languages :( < 1059674816 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just eliminate the useless ones, then. Oh, wait... < 1059674838 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1059674902 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there're some genuinely bad ones < 1059674914 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ook :) < 1059674921 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And E ;) < 1059674931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the minimal assemblers are rather mediocre < 1059674954 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which includes brainfuck, but brainfuck is special < 1059677532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X::=~# < 1059677532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y::=~* < 1059677532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z::=~\n < 1059677532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_.::=._X < 1059677532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_*::=*_Y < 1059677534 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :._|::=.Z-| < 1059677537 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*_|::=Z < 1059677539 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..-::=.-. < 1059677542 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**-::=*-. < 1059677545 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.-::=*-* < 1059677547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*-::=.-* < 1059677548 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Thue. < 1059677549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@.-::=@_. < 1059677552 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) (.) < 1059677552 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@*-::=@_* < 1059677555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::= < 1059677555 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) ( < 1059677557 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_*...............| < 1059677558 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( # ) < 1059677604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: That program requires a thue interpreter that understands \n < 1059677622 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We call this piece 'andreou's naked ascii-art woman bisected by a Thue program' < 1059677626 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1059677649 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the sierpinski cellular automaton < 1059677654 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heH < 1059677655 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1059677672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue is really awesome for some kinds of stuff < 1059677679 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and absolutely horrible for others < 1059677693 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1059677694 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a simple rhythm pattern generator in three or so lines < 1059677701 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yay for randomness) < 1059677712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then i wante to write an interactive fiction game... < 1059677716 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wanted < 1059677972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i created four rooms, and the player could move from room to room < 1059677994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if player typed anything other than n,e,s,w, the game immediately ended :( < 1059678004 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue IO sucks. < 1059678006 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsk, tsk. < 1059678006 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially I. < 1059678026 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue with wildcards. That would be interesting. < 1059678032 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1059678036 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about using regexes < 1059678055 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Do it in SED, you freak. ;) < 1059678061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1059678100 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... SED isn't very interesting as an esoteric language :/ < 1059678109 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's neat < 1059678112 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a bit too powerful. < 1059678136 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a Thue where ? matches any single character. < 1059678137 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1059678150 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My pattern generator, by the way, output things like X.X.XX.X.X.X.XX. < 1059678182 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All such patterns have the property of sounding cool. < 1059678194 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Coolness is subjective. < 1059678199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except perhaps X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X. < 1059678245 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should read the book 'From Polychords to Pólya' by Mike Keith... It goes through the mathematics of scales, chords and rhythms :) < 1059678275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm generally not very interested in generated music < 1059678297 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in mathematics of musics for that matter < 1059678313 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*music :) < 1059678322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too scary a subject < 1059678363 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww... Is iddle-widdle lament afraid? < 1059678370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1059678381 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid of computers being able to create good music :) < 1059678398 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad music is ok, though < 1059678402 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.drugs.intercal < 1059678438 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... I imagine Intercal is classified as a depressant, and not as a stimulant... ;) < 1059678462 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that when I was programming in Intercal I was seeing colors... < 1059678477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, how do i generate a sierpinsi triangle which is not slanted? < 1059678487 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slanted ==? < 1059678511 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first four lines of the output of the program i pasted: < 1059678511 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * < 1059678512 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1059678513 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** < 1059678513 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* * < 1059678513 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**** < 1059678515 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * * < 1059678517 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1059678519 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1059678525 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1059678578 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i don't like about Thue is that programs are too long and narrow < 1059678604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just don't look cool < 1059678615 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike most befunge programs, for example < 1059678616 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* Subjective *cough* < 1059678642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, the stupid need to escape newlines < 1059678653 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, thue programs should use a binary format :) < 1059678690 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, subjective. But would you put a thue program in your signature? < 1059678747 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I don't use signatures. < 1059678838 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see! < 1059678882 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what? < 1059678917 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue programs aren't compact. < 1059678923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compact is good. < 1059678936 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's thinking like that that brought us Perl. < 1059678951 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want compact, go code in J. < 1059678966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Perl is a great esoteric language. < 1059678980 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the fact that people haven't realised it's esoteric. < 1059678991 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some have! < 1059678996 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough. < 1059678998 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*perl golf < 1059679025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they might not realize it, but _of course_ it's esoteric. < 1059679041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wonderfully compact. < 1059679121 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :significant newlines are highly non-esoteric. < 1059679127 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fewd. < 1059679176 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1059684777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1059686517 0 :andreou!~kvik@ppp6.ee.teiath.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1059688177 0 :lament!~lament@h24-87-69-52.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric