←2004-05-03 2004-05-04 2004-05-05→ ↑2004 ↑all
00:10:18 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving").
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00:40:28 <Toreun> andreou, check your memos
00:42:59 <andreou> hm, the separator lines are too thick, but the title idea is very good.
00:43:07 <andreou> please dcc over the tarball
00:43:28 <Toreun> I didn't archive it, since you can download it yourself
00:43:34 <Toreun> but I'll do so now if you want
00:43:46 <Toreun> which separator lines?
00:44:07 <andreou> the orange-gray lines
00:44:32 <Toreun> they should be the same as in your design
00:44:45 <andreou> they're about five pixels thick or so.
00:44:58 <Toreun> they appear to me to be 10
00:45:13 <Toreun> you set them as height="1", which doesn't have a unit
00:45:15 <andreou> they should be 1-pixel high :)
00:45:28 <Toreun> you should've used 1px
00:45:33 <Toreun> I like them thicker, personally
00:45:41 <Toreun> but 10 is probably too much
00:46:23 <Toreun> ok, check now, how's that?
00:46:50 <andreou> yes, now they are subtler
00:48:04 <andreou> should we use darker colors? you know, for the site to be more, eh, sinister :)
00:48:42 <Toreun> I like it how it is. Sinister will scare people away. We don't want the site to do that, we want the languages to :-P
00:49:39 <andreou> heh luring them in with candy and sweet talk and then sodomizing their minds. that's so, eh, esoteric... >8-)#
00:49:46 <Toreun> besides, the way I have it done, the colors are all customizable, except for the title bar and subtitle, which I didn't feel like making classes for individual letters
00:50:18 <Toreun> that's one reason I hate table-based sites so much
00:50:27 <Toreun> to change appearance you have to mess with html
00:50:43 <andreou> by the way, the wikied code is stacked on my todo que (as #1), since i have to learn latex right now, i'll restart work on it tomorrow or the day after.
00:51:15 <Toreun> would you happen to be able to make it in PHP?
00:51:26 <andreou> the wiki?
00:51:33 <Toreun> because that way whatever I do will integrate better
00:51:39 <Toreun> yeah
00:52:04 <Toreun> if you don't know PHP, it's no big deal... but I probably should learn perl anyway
00:52:05 <andreou> probably. there are about 100 lines of C left, so I'll finish that first and then i'll rewrite it in php
00:52:28 <Toreun> why are you using C?
00:52:33 <andreou> oh, it's not in perl; perl is evil and at the same time sucks like a hoover.
00:52:52 <andreou> (plus, i would have to break the chroot or create a local tree with perl+libs)
00:52:59 <Toreun> watch where you say that... this is a programming channel
00:53:25 <andreou> this is an esoteric programming channel, so i can hate and bash every and all languages :)
00:53:33 <Toreun> touche
00:54:43 <Toreun> I know! if you're using that argument, let's make the site in Brainfuck!
00:55:16 <Toreun> (I did see a webserver somewhere that had a brainfuck mod)
00:55:58 <andreou> apache has a mod_bf and i considered using it.
00:56:08 <Toreun> oh, I didn't know that
00:56:23 <andreou> however, i value what is left of my mental stability :)
00:57:39 <Toreun> whatever mental stability I had is now gone since I created my own esoteric lang
00:57:55 <Toreun> bah, it's far too overrated anyway
01:00:08 <Toreun> think we should have a user system?
01:00:19 <Toreun> (I'm working on php-ing it now)
01:00:51 <andreou> not sure about a user system
01:02:26 <Toreun> not a required sign-up system, an optional one, so credit /can/ be given if wanted
01:02:53 <andreou> oh, *that*. well, that is already in the works.
01:02:57 <Toreun> oh, ok
01:03:29 <Toreun> should I screw over the IE users and make a cool bottom bar like I have on my homepage, http://www.toreun.org?
01:04:01 <Toreun> or would we just cram everything into the contents section of the left?
01:04:48 <Toreun> I'm thinking for organizing wiki link trees and other random stuff?
01:05:00 <andreou> the bottom bar seems to work ok in ie6...
01:05:06 <Toreun> oh really?
01:05:19 <andreou> well, i think so :)
01:05:34 <Toreun> it didn't even show up for me
01:05:43 <Toreun> and last time I tried it, it didn't mouseover well
01:05:54 <Toreun> oh here we go, I refreshed
01:06:00 <andreou> the bottom bar is the thingie with the buttons?
01:06:00 <Toreun> the mouseover doesn't work
01:06:14 <Toreun> no, it's the thing with the links
01:06:19 <Toreun> that on IE appears at the top
01:06:26 <Toreun> but good browsers it should be fixed always at the bottom of the page
01:06:45 <andreou> hm, yes, at the top. what should the mouseover do?
01:06:57 <Toreun> bring up submenus
01:07:07 <Toreun> try it in another browser
01:07:17 <Toreun> it's horribly useless, but incredibly cool
01:07:19 <andreou> i don't have/use any other browsers
01:07:47 <Toreun> oh, then my new site design will most likely look quite different on your browser than intended
01:08:06 <Toreun> it should look nearly EXACTLY the same as yours, with only a few pixels off in a few places
01:08:47 <andreou> better have a site that will be viewable from any browser
01:09:17 <Toreun> oh yeah - we're going for the "poison candy" philosophy *g*
01:09:50 <andreou> no, not poison, hallucinogenic (we have edwin working on that department)
01:09:57 <andreou> need... a... smoke...
01:10:23 <Toreun> unfortunately, mushrooms don't necessarily attract people like candy
01:11:34 <andreou> i was thinking along the lines of soaking the candy with strong amanita muscaria extract.
01:11:48 <andreou> hm, coding under the influence of entheogens will probably be *something*
01:12:34 <Toreun> yeah, brainfuck
01:12:44 <andreou> literally
01:12:52 <Toreun> exactly
01:13:13 <Toreun> hmm, do you know the rewrite rule for .htaccess files?
01:14:24 <Toreun> (I've been meaning to learn it, but never got around to it)
01:15:38 <andreou> rewrite rules? eh since i don't know what it means, i guess i don't know them :)
01:16:09 <Toreun> they're used by apache to determine what information is being requested and what information is being given
01:16:13 <Toreun> based on URLs
01:16:26 <Toreun> and it's exceedingly complex and not exactly sensible
01:16:46 <Toreun> s/exceedingly/unnecessarily
01:17:00 <andreou> you don't mean plain .htaccess, right? heh
01:17:41 <Toreun> well, some stuff in .htaccess is pretty easy, since it's just basically a .conf
01:19:21 <Toreun> I want to make <server>/pagename refer to <server>/index.php?action=pagename
01:19:55 <andreou> hm dunno how to do it
01:21:39 <Toreun> oh well
01:23:10 <Toreun> I guess linking to ?something is gonna have to suffice
01:23:32 <andreou> you mean, like literally ln -s'ing?
01:24:03 <Toreun> no, I mean href'ing
01:24:20 <andreou> ah
01:28:10 <andreou> hey, i *found* it!
01:28:12 <andreou> http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ffcc/
01:28:43 <Toreun> impressive
01:35:55 <andreou> should be, it came highly recommended...
01:51:12 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o andreou.
01:51:16 -!- andreou has set channel mode: +ooo edwinb fizzie kosmikus|away.
01:51:19 -!- andreou has set channel mode: +ooo mooz- mtve Taaus.
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01:55:25 <andreou> i'm out
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02:55:23 <Toreun> how's http://www.toreun.org/esoteric/index2.php?
02:55:54 <Toreun> (that's my modification)
02:56:44 <andreou> what does the bf program do?
02:56:55 <andreou> that mod has a lot of blank space :)
02:57:53 <Toreun> well, I made it a fixed size
02:57:58 <Toreun> It's part of a quine
03:00:19 <Toreun> go to about
03:01:34 <andreou> ``Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer'' that reminds me of something.
03:01:50 <Toreun> it's the standard spacefilling text
03:01:52 <Toreun> lipsum.com
03:02:03 <andreou> ah heh
03:02:27 <Toreun> just to show you what happens when there's more to a page than normally fits
03:03:28 <andreou> there's never more than normally fits, we esotericists can handle anything and everything!
03:03:42 <andreou> *sinister laughing*
03:03:44 <Toreun> you should get mozilla or firefox, just so you can see how my site is supposed to look :-P
03:04:13 <andreou> i'll do so if i go to the tei today ;p
03:04:23 <Toreun> esotericists? how bout "esoterians"?
03:04:45 <andreou> that's more cult-like... i like it :)
03:08:00 <Toreun> tei?
03:08:45 <andreou> teiath.gr :)
03:09:45 <Toreun> ah
03:17:34 <Toreun> wow, in IE 6 my site looks so... esoteric
03:18:07 <andreou> it's all wrong.
03:18:17 <andreou> we should have written it in either befunge or lojban.
03:19:02 <Toreun> lojban as a programming language? now there's an interesting idea
03:19:16 <andreou> no, it's a human language
03:19:19 <andreou> as is loglan
03:19:21 <Toreun> I know
03:19:23 <andreou> 'logical language'
03:19:39 <Toreun> I'm a conlang fan(atic?) too
03:19:49 <andreou> no i got it: we'll write it in greek.
03:19:51 <andreou> ancient greek.
03:20:22 <Toreun> latin, we already have the about page done!
03:20:33 <Toreun> no - ancient egyptian hieroglyphs!
03:20:39 <andreou> latin can be easilly deciphered
03:20:44 <andreou> oh, there's an idea
03:20:55 <andreou> and since there are no fonts
03:21:08 <andreou> we'll write them by hand, then scan them and save them in an obscure format
03:21:27 <andreou> for which the documentation is produced by a program in malbolge
03:21:40 <andreou> and we will introduce a bug or two in the program.
03:21:58 <Toreun> an obscure format /generated/ by a malbolge program!
03:22:18 <andreou> won't work
03:22:37 <andreou> but translated into .png by a bug-ridden malbolge program... that's something.
03:24:02 <Toreun> why png? how bout one of those weird macintosh formats
03:24:38 <andreou> xpm
03:25:00 <Toreun> isn't that for the gimp, too?
03:25:05 <andreou> so most people will have to try and read a 1024x768 C structure
03:25:11 <andreou> iirc there's no support
03:25:55 <Toreun> well, I think any mental stability I had now has completely gone.
03:26:16 <andreou> any mental what?
03:26:23 <Toreun> something like that
03:26:53 <andreou> like what?
03:27:01 <andreou> ok, i'll go make an icecream now.
03:27:32 <Toreun> ooh - instead of sticking *just* to malbolge - we make it a polyglot for every language in our wiki
03:28:52 <Toreun> though I suppose that'd make it too easy to compile
03:29:55 <andreou> maybe i should skip the icecream and go directly to heavy liquor
03:30:42 <Toreun> have edwin give you some mushrooms
03:31:02 <andreou> no, i don't want to hallucinate about malbolge, mon!
03:31:04 <andreou> heh
03:31:47 <Toreun> oh, good point... usage of hallucinogens prevents psychological defense mechanisms
03:32:08 <andreou> indeed!
03:41:18 <Toreun> does your wiki have a separate discussion board?
03:41:47 <andreou> hm, no, just one wiki per language
03:42:37 <Toreun> you can't make more wiki pages?
03:42:49 <Toreun> unless you submit a new language?
03:43:10 <andreou> you can make as many as you want
03:43:29 <Toreun> (I was thinking each page, or each language, at least, have it's own forum-type thing, where users can discuss the language)
03:43:33 <andreou> i just thought that the wikis would be an easy way to have pages about the languages, i didn't use them as fora
03:44:04 <Toreun> yeah, which is why I was thinking each wiki page would have its own forum, to have discussions
03:44:20 <Toreun> rather than have users discuss directly on the wiki, crowding everything
03:45:04 <andreou> no, the wiki will be used just for the definitions of languages etc
03:45:17 <andreou> i really hate web fora, i prefer mailing lists :)
03:46:05 -!- lament has joined.
03:46:34 <Toreun> well, my mail server is blacklisted on the esoteric mailing list, last time I checked
03:46:50 <andreou> how come?
03:46:53 <andreou> ah
03:46:58 <andreou> it's probably an open relay
03:47:11 <Toreun> something about not having whois information
03:47:24 <andreou> ident?
03:47:28 <Toreun> not my domain, I'm assuming, but some other domain on the same server
03:47:32 <Toreun> not sure
03:47:35 <andreou> are you the admin of the mail server?
03:47:41 <Toreun> no
03:47:51 <andreou> whois and ident are different stuff
03:47:59 -!- heatsink has joined.
03:48:04 <andreou> well, the whole of .gr doesn't have whois (thanks, hostmaster.gr), however i can post
03:48:10 <andreou> it's probably something else
03:48:22 <Toreun> oh, ok
03:48:23 <Toreun> hm
03:48:47 <Toreun> I'm blacklisted on many servers, because of bad administration on the part of my server, so a lot of mailing lists I can't access
03:49:35 <Toreun> the problem is, with a wiki, people may be inclined to post discussions anyway
03:50:16 <andreou> well, the exelixis of the wiki will drive discussions out :)
03:50:27 <andreou> however, if we need another forum, i will put one up
03:50:44 <andreou> i was, however, thinking of a reference site for the available esolangs
03:50:45 <heatsink> Why not do what wikipedia did, give every page a discussion section?
03:51:09 <andreou> well it's doable i think
03:51:18 <andreou> it's not provisioned in the code, but How Hard Could It Be TM
03:51:19 <Toreun> heatsink: that's what I'm thinking, but instead of just making the discussion section just be another wiki, make it be a messageboard
03:51:20 <andreou> heh
03:51:39 <Toreun> and I could implement it into the code fairly easily
03:51:54 <lament> Just get the wikipedia.org wiki
03:52:17 <lament> On c2.com/wiki there're no separate discussion pages, but people discuss things anyway
03:52:30 <andreou> hm i need something that won't need a whole libc+perl tree
03:52:43 <lament> suck
03:53:42 <Toreun> I would offer my server as webspace, but I'm afraid it's so unreliable it wouldn't be much good
03:54:05 <andreou> due to downtime or due to security issues?
03:54:06 <Toreun> it has perl support already
03:54:19 <Toreun> downtime due to security issues, I'm assuming
03:54:25 <Toreun> DoS attacks
03:54:31 <andreou> ah
03:54:32 <andreou> anyway
03:54:36 <andreou> i'm out to get some work done
03:54:45 <Toreun> ok
03:54:51 <Toreun> bye
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03:55:33 <Toreun> lament and heatsink, what do you think of my modifications to andreou's design? (http://www.toreun.org/esoteric)
03:56:40 <heatsink> The "best viewed with mozilla" graphic is misaligned in konqueror
03:57:21 <Toreun> well, it is designed for mozilla
03:57:25 <Toreun> but what do you mean, misaligned?
03:57:55 <heatsink> It's behind the bottom of the main div
03:58:17 <Toreun> what's your screen resolution?
03:58:45 <heatsink> 1200 by 900 or something like that
03:58:54 <Toreun> that should be fine
03:58:59 <Toreun> unless your text size is larger
03:59:03 <Toreun> and that might be affecting it
03:59:03 <heatsink> I like the brainfuck background, though
03:59:16 <Toreun> thanks... I figured there should be something there
04:00:27 <heatsink> The "about" text is very unoriginal
04:00:35 <Toreun> it's just to fill space
04:00:38 <Toreun> to show the overflow
04:00:46 * heatsink disapproves of plagiarism
04:00:59 <heatsink> ;p
04:01:15 <Toreun> :-P
04:02:00 <heatsink> Actually, I really liked andreou's formatting of the box background and border
04:02:22 <Toreun> I meant it to be nearly exactly the same
04:02:24 <heatsink> This one only has orange on the top, and a homogeneous background
04:02:43 <Toreun> a homogeneous background?
04:02:45 <Toreun> it shouldn't...
04:02:53 <Toreun> or just orange on top
04:02:54 * heatsink looks at default.css
04:03:09 * Toreun points to little graphic at bottom right of page
04:03:35 <heatsink> There's no border-bottom field for #left in default.css
04:03:41 <Toreun> I know
04:03:53 <Toreun> it's in #container
04:04:10 <heatsink> Oh, I see
04:04:12 <Toreun> and then there's a bottom-border for #main, that overrides it
04:04:47 <Toreun> (originally I didn't keep it a fixed size, so I needed the left bar to extend with the main section)
04:04:52 <Toreun> (or at least look like it did)
04:06:20 <heatsink> I think that #main is filling the entire width of #container
04:06:38 <Toreun> could you take a screenshot?
04:07:35 * heatsink forgot how to do that
04:07:53 <Toreun> in the gimp you can do it
04:08:05 <Toreun> or maybe kde supports the print-screen key
04:08:19 <heatsink> There was a shell program that would do it
04:08:25 <heatsink> I've done it before
04:08:38 <Toreun> hmm
04:10:44 <Toreun> I should just make an alternate CSS
04:11:22 <Toreun> for people who don't use Mozilla or Lynx
04:13:48 <heatsink> okay, I got it
04:16:06 <heatsink> okay, the first 13 rows of pixels are white
04:16:40 <heatsink> then 596 white pixels
04:17:01 <heatsink> the next pixel is 152,114,255
04:17:08 <heatsink> are you writing this down?
04:17:42 <Toreun> heh
04:18:04 <Toreun> 13 rows of what, left?
04:18:49 <Toreun> could you send the screenshot?
04:20:04 <heatsink> whither?
04:20:30 <Toreun> toreun@toreun.org works for email
04:20:48 <Toreun> but you could try dcc, though I don't think it works that well with GAIM
04:22:19 <heatsink> I've never dcced before
04:22:42 <Toreun> me neither
04:22:45 <heatsink> dcc send Toreun ~/tmp/screenshot.jpg
04:23:04 <heatsink> try dcc get me
04:23:07 <Toreun> ack, try that again? I was typing and must've hit c
04:23:40 <heatsink> /dcc
04:23:47 <heatsink> /dcc get heatsink
04:24:15 <heatsink> it's not working?
04:25:09 <heatsink> do you see a message if I do this?
04:25:19 <heatsink> oh, I guess not
04:25:26 <heatsink> did you type /dcc get heatsink?
04:25:58 <Toreun> yeah, it doesn't work with gaim
04:26:39 <heatsink> use xchat?
04:27:34 <Toreun> hold on, switching...
04:27:55 -!- Toreun has quit ("gaim irc support is limited...").
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04:29:11 <Toreun> connected failed
04:29:17 <heatsink> hmm
04:29:31 <heatsink> does DCC go over a different port than irc?
04:29:36 <heatsink> it might be the firewall
04:29:51 <Toreun> I'm DMZ host, right now, the firewall shouldn't be a problem, at least on my side
04:30:09 <heatsink> yeah, but I have a firewall that blocks some porta
04:31:02 <heatsink> else: print "unknown comand!!111 AHR AHR U SUX0R"
04:31:13 <heatsink> that's a line from my script
04:31:36 <heatsink> I'll e-mail you then
04:31:42 <Toreun> ok, that works
04:36:09 <heatsink> that shoudl do it
04:36:54 <Toreun> oh, that looks like it does on Internet Explorer
04:38:27 * heatsink is going to bed
04:38:38 <Toreun> actually... now it seems that IE renders it more correctly
04:38:40 <Toreun> ok, g'night
04:38:55 <heatsink> night
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←2004-05-03 2004-05-04 2004-05-05→ ↑2004 ↑all