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04:14:54 <WildHalcyon> I figured out what was wrong with my bloody computer!
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05:10:00 <Toreun> what was wrong with your comp?
05:44:08 <tonsofpcs> wild -- check where he got his name from -- its a list of french-israeli girl names
05:44:21 <tonsofpcs> http://gardiensdudonon.free.fr/t/Nom_F-Ton.htm
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06:10:27 <WildHalcyon> no, no french israli girl names, not that you're here anymore!
06:11:07 <WildHalcyon> Anyhow, Toreun, it turns out that SOMETHING has a conflict with one of the windows automatic updates... once I installed it, it would screw up alllllll the time!
06:11:08 * heatsink wonders if there's a nonsense contest in progress
06:13:13 <WildHalcyon> Im still having problems with my esolang :-(
06:13:31 <WildHalcyon> but at least that's a problem with my own thinking process, and not a manufactured malfunction
06:13:46 <heatsink> Hmm... what is it? I'll try to find it in the archives
06:14:21 <WildHalcyon> I mentioned some problems, but the problem that Im having right now is different
06:14:37 <WildHalcyon> Im trying to think of a usable syntax for a two-dimensional lambda function
06:14:40 <heatsink> Tell me about your different problem, WildHalcyon?
06:14:54 <heatsink> Do you try to think of a usable syntax for a two-dimensional lambda function often?
06:16:25 <heatsink> Eliza is an old chatterbot, it worked by turning everything the other person said into a question
06:18:09 <WildHalcyon> that's as surprising as learning that walrus is one of the oldest words in the english language
06:18:39 <deltab> http://jerz.setonhill.edu/if/canon/eliza.htm
06:23:53 <deltab> http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gxk/courses/g5aiai/002history/eliza.htm
06:25:03 <WildHalcyon> Anyhow, yes... a fungish-type language, supports functions and hopefully a lambda operator, but... how should I do that in 2D?
06:25:31 <heatsink> Will you allow a command to copy data from point A to point B?
06:26:16 <heatsink> Then you can either bring the lambda to the data, or bring the data to the lambda
06:28:24 <WildHalcyon> I think I see what you're getting at, but Im not entirely sure...
06:30:17 <WildHalcyon> so, lets say that I have a function denoted at (x,y) and Im right now hanging out at (a,b), what would be the best way to head to (x,y), and having finished my business there, come back?
06:32:15 <heatsink> Well, if you have random access, the problem's solved. Just poke the data at (x,y), and the return location at (x+1,y) or something like that
06:33:09 <WildHalcyon> The language won't have random access so to speak
06:33:44 <heatsink> So something has to move from (x,y) to (a,b) one cell at a time?
06:33:49 <WildHalcyon> The problem is, I want the language to support arbitrarily large fields, and I can't have an arbitrary goto command on something that can be larger than the biggest integer the language supports
06:34:24 <WildHalcyon> Not necessarily one cell at a time - in fact, Im supposing this with the hypothesis that the programmer has no idea where the function itself is located
06:34:35 <WildHalcyon> a two-dimensional programming 'field' (like in befunge)
06:35:35 <WildHalcyon> The program itself might know where it is - I haven't really fleshed out these particular details yet
06:35:54 <WildHalcyon> I've been working on modularity issues, and string conventions
06:36:04 * heatsink takes another bite of lentil mushroom soup
06:37:10 * WildHalcyon is currently enjoying a chocolate chip cookie
06:38:15 <heatsink> Can a single datum (a cell, the stack contents, etc.) be arbitrarily big? Because then you could pack the lambda function into a single value, and then unpack it in-place... In fact, I've been wanting to do an esolang sort of like that
06:39:20 <WildHalcyon> Stack contents possibly, but an actual cell is limited to a 8-bit value
06:39:35 <heatsink> Well, my idea was an esolang where the program had to include code to expand itself into memory, starting from only one cell
06:40:01 <heatsink> So there's an option: packing & unpacking the lambda
06:41:01 <heatsink> You might be able to think of some way, other than addressing by grid location, of moving data to/from an arbitrary location... making a 'tunnel' of sorts
06:41:17 <WildHalcyon> Thats what I was thinking about, having a sort of 'wormhole' function
06:41:47 <WildHalcyon> basically, you would say "go to function x" and then the program would look up the location of function x, go to it, and at the end, return to where you were to begin with
06:43:01 <heatsink> Have you worked out the details?
06:43:49 <WildHalcyon> not at all - I've been thinking about using lambda functions like false (http://wouter.fov120.com/false/) except creating a sort of function-writing syntax for making two-dimensional functions
06:45:36 * heatsink says in a Monty Python voice, "I can't read this!"
06:47:51 <heatsink> It's like they took all the alphabetic characters out of Perl
06:48:57 <WildHalcyon> you're stuck with one-character commands, its easy to get limited
06:50:37 <heatsink> hmm, the 2d function syntax is gonna look interesting
06:51:11 <WildHalcyon> Im sure that it will, but, it's going to hopefully be more readable than befunge
07:00:18 <WildHalcyon> I dont know, its not terribly important right now. Im sleepy. Time for bed
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