←2004-12-22 2004-12-23 2004-12-24→ ↑2004 ↑all
01:19:23 -!- kpreid has joined.
02:20:59 -!- kpreid_ has joined.
02:26:48 -!- kpreid has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:39:41 -!- kpreid_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:20:01 -!- kpreid has joined.
04:20:34 -!- calamari has joined.
06:01:03 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
06:53:37 -!- calamari_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:06:21 -!- VonTroba has joined.
08:06:30 <VonTroba> hello
08:06:38 -!- VonTroba has changed nick to nooga.
08:07:04 <calamari_> hi
08:18:35 <nooga> which languages do you like?
08:19:00 <calamari_> bf is my favorite esoteric language
08:19:16 <mtve> befunge
08:19:22 <calamari_> non-eso, I like microsoft quickbasic and java
08:20:30 <mtve> perl :)
08:20:39 <calamari_> I've never gotten into befunge, even though I made my own 2-D eso language.. the instruction set doesn't seem to match the 2-D very well
08:21:03 <calamari_> (my eso lang included in that statement)
08:22:00 <calamari_> there was an interesting thread on the lang list a while back about trying to come up with a 2D instruction pointer.. dunno if it got anywhere tho
08:23:16 -!- calamari- has joined.
08:23:16 -!- calamari_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:23:24 <calamari-> I've always wanted to make a fractal programming language, in honor of startrek.. but haven't done it because I can't think of a way to do the code in a way that would fit
08:23:58 <mtve> befunge suits my taste exactly. it's just fine for me. bf is too limited. still, we're waiting your c2bf :)
08:25:17 <calamari-> hehe.. man.. too many unfinished projects
08:25:36 <calamari-> I should check that out tho since I have some time now over winter break
08:41:02 <nooga> hm
08:41:11 <nooga> i know only brainfuck
08:41:23 <nooga> but l33t, beatnik are funny
08:41:38 <nooga> alseo 4DL and Befunge look interesting
08:41:43 <nooga> also*
08:42:37 <nooga> i wrote bf2pas yesterday ;]
08:42:46 <nooga> _optimization
08:43:12 <calamari-> now all you need is pas2bf and you'll have me beat
08:43:47 <nooga> uh
08:43:57 <nooga> today i plan to make it portable
08:44:19 <nooga> ;]
08:44:23 <nooga> bf2everything
08:46:45 <calamari-> someday I'd also like a BF-based OS
08:48:35 <nooga> i thought abt. making bf shell for mine ;]
08:49:47 <nooga> or maybe leet based comands hehe ;] >> "s#0w m3 7h1$ fu<k1ng d1r <0nT3N7!"
08:49:49 <calamari-> since there are bfi programs it should be possible to make it "multitask"
08:50:21 <calamari-> but maybe multitasking isn't really in the spirit of bf
08:50:36 <nooga> hey... or maybe 4DL ? :)
08:50:48 <calamari-> I don't know that one.. is it new?
08:51:19 <nooga> http://www.cliff.biffle.org/esoterica/4dl.html
08:51:48 <nooga> but it's sick '
08:51:50 <nooga> ;]
08:53:39 <calamari-> hehe, Cliff never disappoints
08:56:18 <nooga> heh when i saw Beatnik for the first time i was shocked '
08:56:19 <nooga> ;]
08:58:51 <calamari-> hmm.. just had an idea. bf could be made so that it doesn't use memory.. instead it could read bytes off the disk. this still fits with the whole tape idea and now programs can be loaded from disk
08:59:09 <nooga> hehe
08:59:38 <nooga> my interpreter does not load source to the mem... it reads straight from file
08:59:49 <nooga> and jumps usikg fseek()
09:00:06 <calamari-> there would be no concept of a file unless it was coded into bf
09:00:16 <calamari-> into -> in
09:00:56 <calamari-> it would be more like a huge memory array that just happened to not be empty when the program started
09:01:15 <nooga> hm
09:01:31 <nooga> funny... http://regedit.risp.pl/nosense
09:01:40 <calamari-> the first version would need to be floppy based for increased pain
09:02:35 <nooga> almost every eso language is evul ;D
09:05:48 <nooga> hehe nosense seems to be good for experiments
09:08:49 <nooga> what do you think calamari-?
09:09:46 <calamari-> it seems cool, but I find it easier to test my asm code in a dos window most of the time
09:10:00 <nooga> yeah
09:10:09 <nooga> but as a computer
09:10:33 <calamari-> yeah, that part is cool
09:10:42 <nooga> you have disks there, they are raw so you can even try to define own filesystem
09:11:45 <nooga> and it has some retro style graphics modes
09:12:03 <calamari-> I think the asm code part of this bf os would be pretty simple actually.. I'd need just enough to r/w floppy sectors (bios), screen i/o (bios), and the interpreter, already written many times
09:12:20 <calamari-> the hard part would be the bf program
09:12:26 <nooga> but
09:12:31 <nooga> booting
09:12:37 <calamari-> booting is no problem
09:12:41 <nooga> grub?
09:13:13 <calamari-> nah.. floppy doesn't need anything that complicated. In fact, the whole os could probably fit in the space of the bootloader
09:14:12 <nooga> gah
09:14:17 <nooga> dunno... im a n00b
09:14:35 <calamari-> no that's cool
09:15:03 <calamari-> I've messed around with bootloaders and simplistic fake OS's too many times :)
09:15:56 <nooga> and i still dont know how to make my kernel bootable ;]
09:15:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:16:07 <nooga> even by grub
09:16:15 <nooga> i think it's the linker
09:17:00 <nooga> i have somethink wrong with the format of kernel
09:17:12 <nooga> i tried to use elf32 instead of coff
09:17:32 <nooga> but grub tells me that the kernel is wrong ;|
09:17:36 <calamari-> well the first sector on a floppy is the boot sector.. there are a few "magic" bytes you put at the end of the sector (512 bytes) and it's bootable
09:17:55 <calamari-> it's been a while but I think it's AA55
09:18:14 <nooga> yes
09:18:27 <calamari-> yeah aa55 which turns into 55AA on the disk
09:18:43 <nooga> but look
09:20:24 <calamari-> I've never messed with linux like that
09:20:45 <calamari-> and also havenb't ever experimenented on HD's
09:20:53 <nooga> can you write os under windows?
09:21:00 <calamari-> sure
09:21:20 <nooga> how to link program to make a bootable kernel?
09:21:59 <calamari-> for a floppy?
09:23:54 <calamari-> there were a few projects where I wanted the floppy to be readable under dos/win, so I added a small fat and root directory.. I just used a hex editor for those and wrote a small program to put the sectors together
09:24:05 <calamari-> I usually just write the sectors to a floppy with debug
09:24:27 <calamari-> although it's not hard to do it with asm either
09:24:33 <nooga> but simple exe can't boot?
09:24:50 <calamari-> I'm not writing an exe
09:25:36 <calamari-> this is like a com file where you only have a little over 400 bytes of code space
09:26:13 <calamari-> you don't have access to ms-dos interrupts
09:27:01 <nooga> but
09:27:17 <calamari-> usually this code space is used to load a larger program from disk and run it (what's why it's called the boot sector, lifting yourself up by the bootstraps and all that)
09:27:20 <nooga> i write program that will prind "Hello world!" on a screen
09:27:33 <calamari-> ok
09:27:36 <nooga> and if i want to run it under win i need to link it for lin
09:27:51 <nooga> stfu
09:27:52 <calamari-> oic, are you writing it in c?
09:27:54 <nooga> win* of crs
09:28:24 <nooga> yes, c
09:28:43 <calamari-> sorry.. I've been talking about coding directly in ASM
09:28:48 <nooga> and if i will link it for win i'll get .exe file
09:29:43 <calamari-> you can link ASM programs to libraries, but you don't have to either
09:29:53 <calamari-> yeah
09:30:18 <nooga> and if i want to boot the same hello-world program
09:30:27 <nooga> what i have to do?
09:30:48 <calamari-> I use nasm (used to use tasm), buth can assemble straight to a COM file without any external linking. NASM can assemble to a BIN file which doesn't assume an offset of 0100h
09:31:42 <calamari-> I dunno.. I guess you'd have to write some small code that handles the MZ format and code segment/data segment stuff
09:32:19 <calamari-> you'd also need to handle any MS-DOS interrupts that the libraries used
09:32:42 <calamari-> probably not going to happen in 400 bytes
09:33:14 <calamari-> so you'd need to write your own mini-os basically.. some old floppy games did that
09:33:39 <nooga> huh
09:33:47 <nooga> and if i will code in asm?
09:33:57 <calamari-> then everything is a lot easier
09:34:49 <calamari-> you're going to end up writing some asm code anyways because you're going to need that boot sector
09:37:53 <nooga> eerm
09:38:29 <calamari-> I have an old ESO example on my webpage here: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/eso/eso-0.01.zip
09:39:11 <calamari-> it has a bunch of asm files, but I think only aq few are actually assembled
09:39:47 <nooga> 0.o
09:39:50 <nooga> what
09:39:57 <nooga> that's you :)
09:40:48 <calamari-> ???
09:41:27 <nooga> you wrote that twisted thing ;]
09:41:40 <nooga> i saw that several weeks ago
09:42:03 <calamari-> yeah, long time ago.. looks like feb of 2003
09:42:15 <calamari-> but it seems like it should be older than that
09:42:50 <calamari-> all it does is show a fancy logo then say "system halted" it's nothing special really
09:43:34 <calamari-> we needed a group to brainstorm how the os would look, but the project died pretty quickly
09:45:31 <nooga> ha
09:45:42 <nooga> but i can use it as a base for mine ;]
09:46:26 <calamari-> have fun :)
09:47:29 <calamari-> email me if you make something boot up.. I'd love to see it! :) jeff@kidsquid.com
09:47:46 <nooga> ok i will ;]
09:52:24 <calamari-> I need to go to bed.. cya all.. feel free to email me if you need help or whatever
09:52:34 -!- calamari- has quit ("<=K").
10:40:40 <nooga> hm
10:40:54 <nooga> im thinking about my own eso lang.
12:11:41 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:15:33 -!- nooga has quit.
12:38:46 -!- Keymaker has joined.
12:40:17 <Keymaker> hi; i suck at C, could someone make me small code that would only read something file byte per byte, end when the file is read or stop in case of error.. i can't find good example anywhere :(
12:41:27 <Keymaker> it'd be best if the file could be selected when starting the program, for example ./prog file.txt
12:41:45 <Keymaker> (i have no idea how to make that kind of thing either)
12:41:54 <Keymaker> i'd be very happy :)
12:41:59 -!- Keymaker has quit (Client Quit).
13:27:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:50:37 -!- nooga has joined.
14:50:46 <nooga> hi ;]
15:10:56 -!- nooga has quit.
15:26:26 -!- nooga has joined.
15:39:39 -!- lindi- has quit ("...").
16:03:39 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:36:17 -!- nooga has joined.
20:18:57 -!- biniu has joined.
20:36:46 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:11:25 -!- biniu has changed nick to nooga.
21:44:58 -!- nooga has changed nick to bin_iu.
21:45:01 -!- bin_iu has quit.
23:41:43 -!- kpreid has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
←2004-12-22 2004-12-23 2004-12-24→ ↑2004 ↑all