02:04:37 -!- rollman has joined. 02:22:08 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:34:59 -!- heatsink has joined. 04:40:56 Hoopla! ^_^ http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ 04:42:29 Anybody want to challenge me at Befunge? :) 04:42:34 Hmm. 04:42:40 * GregorR needs to read before he hits enter. 04:42:47 Anybody want to challenge me at FukYorBrane? :) 04:44:06 I'll give it a go. 04:44:28 Actually, I should read this README first. 04:45:13 Definitely ;) 04:45:25 Not the one on the forum, I've changed it a bit >_> 04:47:41 ok... 04:51:34 a command greater than 16 is a NOP? 04:51:52 Yes, it loops. 04:51:54 16 + 1 = 0 04:52:07 weird, base 17 arithmetic 04:52:14 >:) 04:52:28 Also made it possible to have no decrement. 04:52:33 Because decrementing is for pussies. 04:53:00 I refer to, of course, weak or feeble-minded people, no female genetalia. 04:53:51 it makes for slow code though 04:53:57 okay, let's see what I can do. 04:54:33 The slow code is part of the idea - it takes a long time to do complex logical operations, so the other program has a chance to do quick evil things. 04:54:42 It balanced out simple-vs-complex a bit. 04:55:01 I've spent WAY too much time on design in this "language" :-P 05:01:13 If two programs are both in a {>} loop, is it possible for an infinite loop? 05:02:17 No, when you > past the end of the program, it comes back to the beginning. 05:02:25 So eventually one would find the other pointer. 05:02:33 Plus, it won't go more than 10,000,000 ticks. 05:03:03 Both pointers are moving simultaneously. I'd like to know if it's possible that they will always miss each other. 05:03:53 { checks if program As data pointer is on top of program Bs program pointer. Program Bs program pointer is just going in a tiny loop, it's not constantly moving. 05:04:05 It's feasable, it could be like this: 05:04:11 Hmm, how to represent this... 05:04:47 {>} {>} {>} {>} 05:04:47 d d d d 05:04:47 p p p p 05:05:05 But I don't think that would work, since the data pointer can never move as fast as the program pointer. 05:05:32 In my twisted mind that's a Matrix scene :-P 05:05:38 :D 05:07:33 Hmm, I should have mentioned that in the README. 05:08:07 One of the principles behind FYB is that the data pointer can never move as fast as the program pointer it's chasing, because it will take at least three commands to move the data pointer with any sort of logic. 05:09:04 ok 05:10:49 * GregorR is so afraid that you're going to quickly write a program that will whoop all my programs' arses :-P 05:14:43 mebbe. Dunno. 05:20:30 -!- heatsink has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:20:35 -!- rollman has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:20:36 -!- cpressey has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:20:36 -!- fizzie has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:20:37 -!- cmeme has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:20:37 -!- Taaus has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:20:37 -!- lindi- has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:21:33 -!- heatsink has joined. 05:21:33 -!- rollman has joined. 05:21:33 -!- cmeme has joined. 05:21:33 -!- fizzie has joined. 05:21:33 -!- cpressey has joined. 05:21:33 -!- Taaus has joined. 05:21:33 -!- lindi- has joined. 05:21:56 -!- calamari has joined. 05:29:22 I beat mangler, but lose to logicex 05:29:47 I reinvented your trick of a one-time-through thread at the beginning of the program. 05:31:13 Since I use that trick in every single one, I don't think it matters ;-P 05:31:22 Unless by "reinvented" you mean "made significantly better" 05:31:31 logicex is my trophy *shrugs* 05:31:50 I'd also try findAndDestroy, though with the one-time-through-thread at the beginning it ought to be no problem. 05:32:39 is defect status per thread? 05:32:56 Yes 05:33:04 ah. 05:33:26 Hmmmmmm, just noticed something that may be a bug... 05:33:28 My one time through impl is a little bit simpler, just a few [+]s 05:34:01 When you fork, it ought to gain the parent-process' defect status... 05:34:05 But I don't think that it is... 05:34:07 *checks* 05:34:29 findanddestroy won. 05:34:52 Then there's probably something snarky about your once-through thread. 05:35:00 That's designed to keep findAndDestroy busy 05:35:10 Oop, I indeed screwed up that inheritance... 05:35:13 *fixfixfix* 05:37:28 a0.5 released with that fix :-P 05:37:39 :) 05:37:48 One line difference :-P 05:40:49 well, was fun. I'm off now. 05:40:56 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 06:27:52 -!- bells6003 has joined. 06:28:42 -!- bells6003 has left (?). 07:05:46 whatcha playing? 07:14:13 FukYorBrane :) 07:14:25 It's a combination of BrainFuck and CoreWars. 07:14:30 See http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ 07:15:11 haha cool idea.. corewars is an oldie but goodie 07:25:24 Yeah, a friend introduced me to it and I thought I could sort of one-up the evil :-P 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:34:00 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:16:55 If two programs are both in a {>} loop, is it possible for an infinite loop? 10:16:55 No, when you > past the end of the program, it comes back to the beginning. 10:17:27 I was wondering... what about each program running in the opposite direction to the other? 12:49:19 -!- kipple has joined. 15:50:57 When you < past the beginning, it does NOT go to the end. 15:51:00 Only > loops 15:51:41 If < looped, then <[+]+++++++++++++++! would be the perfect bomb - you're 100% guaranteed to hit the last command. 15:54:18 my idea (or better my random thought) was that > increments for one of the programs and decrements for the other 15:55:15 and the code pointer increases for one of the programs and decreases for the other 15:55:37 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, like one program actually runs in reverse. 15:55:50 I don't have a mirror command :-P 15:56:09 hehe 15:56:32 no, the idea is to confront them, not to use a mirror command 15:57:22 So it sticks the two chunks of code at opposite ends of the same program space and they go towards eachother? (Or still different program space?) 15:58:17 yeah, but totally transparently (i.e. no program knows if it's going in the forward or reverse direction) 15:58:29 Of course 15:58:41 just a crazy idea, anyway 15:58:59 You are totally free to implement it ;) 15:59:13 hehe 15:59:31 I'm already busy with my malbolge 'cat' 15:59:47 Yeah, malbolge can keep you busy all right X-D 16:00:11 I've managed to get it working by preloading the memory; now I need to set that memory up via an initialization routine 16:00:43 that's actually even harder 16:01:34 * pgimeno returns to malbolging 16:26:51 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:05:58 Fnur... befunge.org (and thus FYB, too) will be offline for a few minutes (I hope) now, as I install a third NIC to the router box. 17:07:53 -!- fizzie has quit ("(switching NICs.)"). 17:31:57 -!- fizzie has joined. 18:04:07 -!- puzlet has joined. 18:04:11 -!- puzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:06:50 -!- puzlet has joined. 18:06:52 -!- puzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:11:24 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 18:29:30 -!- Keymaker has joined. 18:29:36 hi 18:29:45 hmm, it's crowded here today :) 18:33:41 pgimeno: ok 18:49:16 hi Keymaker 18:50:46 hi 18:50:56 Hi all :) 18:50:58 (sorry about delay, i wasn't in front of computer) 18:50:59 hi 18:51:28 no prob, I wasn't either 18:51:33 :) 18:51:37 Anybody beat my FYB logicex program yet? :-P 18:51:55 i guess not 18:51:57 :) 18:52:09 It helps to be the one who wrote the language :-P 18:52:17 yeah 18:52:29 at least sometimes (like in malbolge ;)) 18:52:34 X-D 18:52:48 It also helps to simply not be malbolge ;) 18:53:00 hehe 18:53:09 Dis is not so evilish 18:53:16 what's that? 18:53:23 haven't heard of that 18:53:44 Dis is a language designed by Ben Olmstead too, seeing that Malbolge succeeded just too much in being unuseable 18:54:02 heh 18:54:09 Dis is also the name of the virtual machine within the Inferno computer operating system. Dis was designed to execute programs written in the programming language Limbo. 18:54:18 Thank you Wikipedia! :-P 18:54:21 yep, that too :) 18:54:47 Back to writing a formal report about fake things I don't care about. 18:54:58 heh, good luck 18:55:34 :) 18:55:46 is there any info about dis anywhere? 18:55:58 sample programs? language info? 18:57:49 well, there's the old page by Ben in the web archive 18:58:04 other than that, it's not very popular 18:58:25 basically it's the same as Malbolge but removing the encryption and self-modification 18:58:58 Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame 18:59:03 Where's the pain? 18:59:07 hehe 18:59:31 well, it still has a program counter and a data conter, both being auto-increased 18:59:38 rgh 18:59:43 not my taste :) 18:59:46 hehe 18:59:56 only for masochists like me :P 19:00:00 :) 19:00:36 i'm brainfuck programmed 19:00:42 lol 19:00:46 i mean programmer 19:00:49 I've also tasted BF, it rocks! 19:00:53 indeed 19:01:17 I've written an esoteric languages article in spanish, I have a half-translation somewhere... 19:01:25 ok 19:01:31 BF is the "star" of the article 19:01:36 :) 19:01:42 brainfuck is just simply so cool 19:01:50 it's because it has everyting 19:01:55 I've also written an optimizing interpreter 19:01:58 in eight powerful instructions 19:02:04 that's good :) 19:02:14 it runs fairly fast 19:02:28 BF is really quite interesting. It's about the most "pure" example of a turing machine. 19:02:33 it's programming on so simple level, i love the instructions :) 19:02:42 yeah 19:03:00 I once made a non-rule-checking checkers game in BF. 19:03:07 hmm 19:03:10 what that game is? 19:03:17 oh, optimizing interpreter plus debugger, I must add 19:03:31 Well, it just had a board, and the user just said "move this piece there" 19:03:38 It didn't verify that anything was done legally :-P 19:03:43 yeah 19:03:47 but what is chekers game? 19:04:06 Ohhhhhhhhh. Hmm. Wikipedia to the rescue I think....... 19:04:11 :) 19:04:38 Does "Draughts" ring a bell? 19:04:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkers 19:04:44 nope 19:05:02 but i recognize the game 19:05:08 haven't played nor know rules though 19:05:31 Hmm 19:05:31 a checkers game in BF? 19:05:40 A very limited checkers game in BF. 19:05:45 And I cheated and used a C preprocessor. 19:05:46 wow 19:06:01 hehe, well, some tricks can be used 19:06:07 :-P 19:06:23 Anyway, my harddisk crashed so it's lost :'( 19:06:27 I have a printout somewhere X-D 19:06:30 damn 19:06:37 hmm' 19:06:43 i think i could code a game like that 19:06:48 if i'd learn the rules 19:06:54 heh, it would be cool if it appeared as a type-in program in a magazine :P 19:07:01 :) 19:07:03 It wasn't so much challenging as incredibly mind-numningly painful *shrugs* 19:07:13 yeah 19:09:25 here's my article in English (the translation is still preliminary; needs some work, and some parts still need to be translated): http://perso.wanadoo.es/p.gimeno/temp/Articles/EsotericLanguages.html 19:09:51 the optimizing interpreter/debugger was written as a companion for that article; it's linked somewhere 19:09:51 i'll take a look, seems interesting :) 19:09:57 ok 19:10:38 I'd like a debugger 8-D 19:10:49 for your FYB? 19:11:54 No, for BF ;) 19:11:57 direct link to the debugger: http://perso.wanadoo.es/p.gimeno/files/brfd10.zip 19:12:01 there you have :) 19:12:07 Hoopla :) 19:13:17 Ooooooh, let's see if I can find this....... 19:13:40 I made a 2D language (a la PATH) that had only two operations that were overloaded by direction...... 19:13:47 wow 19:14:09 that seems interesting :) 19:14:21 indeed 19:14:22 (about bf interpreters; there are thousands of them!!!!) 19:14:28 lol, true fact. 19:14:31 I've written one :-P 19:15:09 I don't use it though, I just wrote it for kicks. 19:15:17 heh, every man and his dog's BF interpreter 19:15:18 yah 19:15:36 if I want to test simple code I usually look for one in JS 19:15:52 HEY, I've still got my code 8-D 19:15:58 For 2l that is 19:16:00 coolio 19:16:13 hmm 19:16:21 Mind if I paste the code to make an H (8 lines) 19:16:28 go ahead!! 19:16:29 I don't 19:16:33 ##################################+ 19:16:33 +# 19:16:33 *#***********************************************************************+ 19:16:33 *# * 19:16:33 +## # 19:16:35 + # 19:16:37 *# 19:16:39 + 19:16:41 Hmm, wrapped a bit. 19:16:52 there's three instructions 19:16:56 what do they do? 19:17:04 (looks pretty interesting though!) 19:17:06 # isn't an instruction, it's just my way of remembering where I am X-D 19:17:07 I count four 19:17:10 ah 19:17:13 oh 19:17:17 * and + are the instructions 19:17:24 ok 19:17:26 I wrote a bf interpreter when I couldn't find one with a working single-step mode. :p 19:17:28 a space is a nop, then? 19:17:35 Yeah 19:17:41 (And one in scheme when I had nothing to do.) 19:17:41 Like BF, anything that isn't a command is a comment 19:17:53 ok 19:17:59 interesting looking language 19:18:03 * = all stack and IO operations, + = branch 19:18:05 do you have language specification anywhere? 19:18:13 Possibly, lesse... 19:19:00 oh, in the article I propose a BF challenge (which can be split into three): write the shortest possible BF code which stores the number 111 in a memory position 19:20:10 that number is deliberately outside of Franz Faase's table (of course) 19:20:20 i'll try that soon! 19:20:32 (must go now for a while, someone else wants to use this computer) 19:20:37 oh ok 19:20:43 I can't find the spec, but I can rewrite it. 19:20:50 ok 19:20:55 bye for a while 19:20:55 nice if you do, GregorR-L 19:21:01 later Keymaker 19:21:45 damn, I didn't provide a license for brfd... 19:22:48 let's say it's public domain 19:25:16 oh, brfd broke an ANSI C standard regarding the length of a string constant (the help text of the debugger was too long) 19:32:29 Darn, I don't think this is my latest revision of 2L ... damn my hard disk failure >_O 19:34:30 oh, such a pity 19:34:49 anyway, a spec would do 19:35:57 is it Whirl-like? does it have a wheel of opcodes? 19:36:04 No 19:36:14 The op it runs depends on the direction of the program flow. 19:36:30 oh, I understand 19:37:43 http://www.befunge.org/fyb/2l/README 19:38:08 If that logic tree is to totally random to decipher, tell me, I might be able to change it around a bit :-P 19:39:01 I even had a 2l compiler before my HD crash :( 19:39:08 But, there is an interpreter. 19:39:11 And that's something. 19:39:54 indeed 19:40:51 BTW, 2L stands for "The 2 Language" 19:44:05 I'd say it has two symbols rather than two operations 19:44:52 BrainFuck (and 2l, apparently) operate on a tape, not a stack. A stack would be a FIFO structure. Other than that, looks like a language I wouldn't want to _have_ to use for some real project. :) 19:44:59 OH. 19:45:06 lol, wording = me not smart 19:45:37 a stack would be a LIFO ;) 19:45:46 :-P 19:45:50 Nnngh. Yes. 19:45:53 Not a queue. 19:46:58 well, it has that amazing simplicity that makes up a funny esoteric language :) 19:47:13 I like it 19:47:40 :) 19:47:51 I'd like to see a stable homepage for it 19:48:04 You got one to offer? ;) 19:48:11 more or less :) 19:48:29 You #esoteric people are so nice 8-D 19:48:54 I have to consult it, but I can't give you write access, I just can post your page and maybe your changes 19:49:27 I've seen so many esoteric language pages being lost 19:49:52 (README updated) 19:50:27 * pgimeno updates 19:50:54 Just changed stack to tape and operation to symbol 19:51:29 I suspect a Hello World will be huge... 19:51:36 It was four pages printed out. 19:51:43 It's on the wall of my cubicle... 19:51:51 Cubical? However you spell that. 19:52:08 cubicle looks right 19:52:13 neat :) 19:52:35 I have a board on my wall that says "BEWARE OF ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING" and has that, some BF and some FYB posted :-P 19:52:52 heh, cool 19:53:17 does anyone know something about BLANK? is it 2D? 19:54:00 I'm trying to classify my bookmarks 19:54:21 sort, even 19:54:54 Unsure *shrugs* 19:55:14 GregorR-L: in about one hour I can tell you if I can host your 2L page 19:55:58 Iirc blank wasn't 2d. 19:56:10 Doesn't look like it's 2D, yeah. 19:56:19 Well, I'm off to eat lunch. 19:56:20 BBIAB 19:56:31 later GregorR-L 19:56:31 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 19:57:00 fizzie: I haven't read the description thoroughly, but I've read this: "Blank is a combination of Befunge, False, and Brainf*ck,[...]" 19:57:29 I wondered if the befungity came from being 2D 19:58:51 ah 19:58:59 back finally 19:59:01 re, Keymaker 19:59:21 I don't remember anything really befungey about blank, but I have to admit I don't remember any details about the language. 19:59:44 if you're sure it's not 2D, that's enough for me, thanks 20:00:13 for the sake of simplicity there should be language using only space and new-line :) 20:00:35 or maybe not 20:00:49 that's Whitespace, not to be confused with Blank :) 20:01:48 ah so there's two? 20:01:58 i always thought there was just one, never noticed that :) 20:02:06 Blank is not about spaces, I think 20:02:24 ok 20:04:30 I think the befungey parts of blank are its stack-basedness, plus the instruction set is befunge-inspired. The program sits in a one-dimensional ring, however. 20:05:42 ohic 20:06:09 i gotta ask GregorR-L if i can continue his 2l 20:06:11 idea 20:06:15 a bit 20:06:24 i'd have some plans for it 20:06:32 but not in the same form 20:06:37 or well 20:06:57 i mean with that that i would change the language a bit and its name as well 20:07:30 yeah, I agree it could be better 20:09:07 the problem with Blank is that there's no example in the web pages to figure out what it looks like... well, the description has some snippets but not enough as to get an idea 20:09:36 * pgimeno takes a look at the distribution 20:10:14 oh, there are a few examples there 20:14:47 * pgimeno slaps forehead 20:15:01 I should have looked in www.99-bottles-of-beer.net 20:17:10 that is really fascinating site :) 20:17:21 by the way, iirc it has that for malbolge as well 20:17:37 that probably means someone has managed to make some loop stuff or something? 20:19:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (No route to host). 20:19:15 nooo 20:19:26 it is just a printf | gzip | uuencode 20:19:26 According to http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.html it just prints the correct string, does not use a loop. 20:19:46 no way 20:19:50 ok 20:20:19 the day I see a true 99 Bottles of Beer in Malbolge... 20:20:21 then there's "nothing special" :) 20:20:37 it's fairly easy to make it spit whatever text 20:20:48 how? 20:21:08 you just rotate and op like crazy 20:21:34 i'm not sure how.. 20:22:12 well, if you normalize the 99BoB you can see that it just performs about one rotate and two ops per character 20:22:54 the canonical Malbolge interpreter has the "feature"(?) of the output being modulo 256 20:23:07 which is quite against the spirit of Malbolge, btw 20:23:13 heh 20:23:28 it should be modulo 243 if the CPU has trinary pins 20:24:36 if you prepare a memory area adequately, a rotate followed by an op or two gets the correct character 20:25:36 that's theory, though; I haven't tried myself 20:26:24 :) 20:26:31 I'm now concentrated in getting the memory contents set up as I want them 20:26:39 not so easy as printing characters 20:27:26 at least I already got the main loop working (but as it is now, I need to preload the memory) 20:29:16 too genius-talk for me.. :) 20:29:18 anyways; 20:29:25 about getting 111 to some cell 20:29:35 in this code i assumed 20:30:02 the pointer must in the cell where 111 is stored when the execution of the program is ended 20:30:09 ++++[>++++<-]>[<+++++++>-]<- 20:30:27 i'll try to make a shorter way 20:32:27 there are three categories 20:32:39 in what? 20:32:43 one: leave the pointer in the same cell 20:32:49 ah 20:32:54 two: don't leave the pointer in the same cell 20:33:14 three: assume a modulo-256 interpreter where -1 = 255 20:33:21 i see 20:33:37 the code must start at position 0 20:33:40 i'd outrule that category three immediately 20:33:53 :) 20:34:00 it allows far shorter programs 20:34:13 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 20:34:24 I got one in 13 instructions 20:34:30 wow 20:34:34 that is nice 20:34:36 but 20:34:40 err 20:34:42 17 that is 20:34:59 Anybody want to clue me in on the convo? 20:35:05 i'm strictly "non-wrapping array, non-wrapping cells, 8 bit cells" kind of brainfuck programmer 20:35:14 ah :) 20:35:18 convo? 20:35:20 :) 20:35:22 conversation? 20:35:26 Yeah, sorry 20:35:32 oh 20:35:42 well, don't know about that :) 20:35:45 about getting 111 to some cell 20:35:45 in this code i assumed 20:35:45 the pointer must in the cell where 111 is stored when the execution of the program is ended 20:35:45 ++++[>++++<-]>[<+++++++>-]<- 20:36:20 Ahh yes 20:37:06 Keymaker: yours is exactly like mine in category one :) 20:38:04 :) 20:38:20 but remember i haven't seen your solution 20:38:27 where are they? 20:38:40 so it was purely accidental 20:38:52 http://rinconprog.metropoliglobal.com/Articulos/indexArticulo.php?art=4 20:38:55 oops 20:39:10 click on "english version" 20:39:20 that's the link for the spanish one 20:39:39 ok 20:39:52 err 20:39:55 actually, no 20:40:07 hehe, sorry... I left that part untranslated 20:40:29 i see 20:40:35 the theoretical lower bound is 27 instructions 20:40:35 maybe that was why i didn't find them 20:40:47 (and still haven't!) 20:41:30 look for "Soluciones" 20:41:41 http://rinconprog.metropoliglobal.com/Articulos/indexArticulo.php?art=4#Soluciones 20:42:01 The requested URL /Articulos/indexArticulo.php was not found on this server. 20:42:19 whoops 20:42:20 :\ 20:42:20 Hmm...... 20:42:36 GAH, I've got to get back to this report X-D 20:42:43 did you find them, Keymaker? 20:42:47 nope 20:43:46 strange 20:44:01 so.. are they somewhere on that translated page? 20:44:25 nope, they're just in the spanish page 20:44:40 have you tried the second link? 20:45:09 yes 20:45:18 but it doesn't work 20:45:23 my Mozilla got a bit crazy 20:45:39 after it loads, click on the URL bar and hit ENTER 20:45:57 maybe that helps 20:46:11 sorry, no effect :) 20:46:32 hm, let me see if I have it in my old page 20:48:44 http://perso.wanadoo.es/p.gimeno/temp/Articles/Buscaminas.html 20:48:50 just uploaded it 20:49:26 ah, now i can see 20:49:29 i'll check it out 20:51:40 if you happen to be interested in the article, the English version is in http://perso.wanadoo.es/p.gimeno/temp/Articles/Minesweeper.html (this one is complete) 20:52:52 thanks, i'll read it! 20:56:31 * pgimeno admits with a red face that the Minesweeper Designer program is Windows-only 20:57:39 GregorR-L: are you still interested in letting me host the 2L specs? 20:58:52 Sure 21:00:12 could you perhaps elaborate it a bit more? 21:01:03 not the language itself 21:01:28 Umm, possibly. I could definitely fix the logic tree of doom ^_^ 21:01:35 hehe 21:01:56 I mean like give examples 21:02:09 wrap up a "distribution" if possible 21:02:59 Okiday 21:03:07 I could even autoconf it X-D 21:03:13 Which would be pointless, since there's only one file ;) 21:03:15 So I won't. 21:04:38 better not :) 21:05:35 ./configure ... checking for bfc: Sorry, the interpreter is written in BrainFuck, so you need a BrainFuck compiler to compile this! 21:05:35 :-P 21:05:48 hehehe 21:06:02 BF should be a standard POSIX tool 21:06:18 Indeed 21:06:27 after all who uses dc anyway? 21:06:29 All scripts that you would write in perl should instead be written in BF. 21:06:41 second that! 21:06:45 X-D 21:06:53 yeah, much more programmer-friendly 21:07:01 Easier to read, less obtuse. 21:07:07 :) 21:07:08 agree 21:07:15 easy syntax 21:07:25 No confusing regex 21:07:52 there's not a thousand ways of writing the same semantically equivalent statement 21:07:54 Oooooooooh, that's what I want to see. A regex mungler in BF. Has anybody written one? 21:08:18 uh, regexps are hard to deal with 21:08:42 to code, I mean 21:10:24 Heheh 21:10:33 Which is why I want to see them in BF >:) 21:10:52 what are those? 21:12:47 echo -e "hi\nbye" | grep 'h.*' 21:12:53 The h.* there is a regex expression. 21:13:04 It says "look for an h, then any character repeated any number of times 21:13:11 There are infinitely more complex ones :-P 21:13:34 there's even one that validates dates 21:13:34 :) 21:14:21 There are couple dozen-line ones that validate email addresses. 21:15:07 well, I don't really mean that there's ONE, just that they have enough power to let that be made ;) 21:15:22 indeed I've written my own date validator 21:15:45 They have just as much power as finite state automatons. :p (Well, perl regular expressions don't count, you can include arbitrary perl code in those.) 21:17:04 Oy. This is so difficult to explain ...... 21:17:25 They aren't very readable, though. One of my perl scripts say $rest =~ /^((?:(?:$ex_nt|$ex_t|$ex_e)(?:\s+|$|(?=\|)))*)\s*(?:\||$)\s*(.*)$/ and it's not immediately obvious what that does. 21:17:46 what it does?! 21:17:57 I don't know. It's not obvious. 21:18:01 :D 21:18:19 perl should be esoteric 21:18:28 hehe 21:19:00 :) hmm, what is finite sate automaton? 21:19:48 a state machine, something like a Turing machine but unidirectional (someone correct me if I'm wrong) 21:21:46 Basically a Turing machine without the tape, yes. It has a set of states, and it does transitions between the states according to the input it receives, handling one character of input at a time. 21:22:10 (And either accepts or rejects the input, depending on what state it ends up in.) 21:24:06 OK 21:24:08 I updated the README again 21:24:16 This time it has a worthless tutorial 8-D 21:24:54 yay! 21:25:24 let's see.. 21:25:57 neat! 21:28:46 now that's much better 21:28:59 "That's it! That's the whole language! Isn't that simple ... but not!" 21:29:00 :) 21:29:03 :D 21:29:07 looks good! 21:29:14 btw, some questions; 21:29:22 1. how the program stops? 21:30:04 2. what is TLO? 21:30:28 now.. make an interpreter, i wanna code something! 21:30:34 :) 21:31:27 OHHHHHH! Both very important. 21:31:31 I have an interpreter. 21:31:32 2li.c 21:31:39 TLO = Top location 0, right? 21:31:50 err tape 21:31:53 Tape location 0, yes. I should write that in. 21:31:59 yeah 21:32:09 and upload the interpreter 21:32:22 The interpreter is up there... 21:33:10 wasn't I/O being made by a * when the program was runing up/down? 21:33:32 No, it's right-left 21:33:41 If I wrote it otherwise, I'm an idiot 8-D 21:34:00 well, I don't have the previous version and I don't remember :) 21:34:19 in case of doubt it's me who's wrong :) 21:34:25 Heheh 21:36:07 hum, seems to me that it will cost too much traveling from TL0 to TL[whatever] for moderately long programs 21:36:10 2li uploaded with Makefile 21:37:00 You could use 0s and travel intelligently *shrugs* 21:37:29 0: 1, 1: 1, 2: 0, 3: n, 4: n, ...., 50: 7 21:37:36 You're on 50, just loop backwards until you hit a 0 21:37:44 You'd want to put a 0 somewhere there so you could get back 21:37:56 And yes, it would cost too much as well 8-D 21:40:19 furthermore, why left/right are mapped to up/down and raise/lower value are mapped to left/right? 21:40:38 it would be very graphical if these matched 21:41:08 I was mentally imagining it the other way. I was seeing a vertical tape in my head, with values stretching left-right. 21:41:15 if you operate going to the right, you move the pointer to the right 21:41:17 oh 21:41:28 ok then :) 21:41:46 But it doesn't quite work the same as in BF, so my descriptions weren't helpful :-P 21:43:19 gotta go now 21:43:27 see you tomorrow 21:44:46 Bye 21:45:00 bye 21:46:31 -!- Keymaker has set topic: Somebody make a cooler topic!. 21:51:47 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: Time to fight with BF! Learn FYB (http://www.befunge.org/fyb/) and challenge Gregor's logicex-1.fyb!. 21:51:49 Ahahahahaha 21:51:59 I'm such a jackass 21:52:03 :) 21:59:04 YAY! I finished my paper ^_^ 21:59:18 good 21:59:22 what is it about? 21:59:36 It's for my Technical Writing class, so it's just some example situation from the book. 22:00:28 ok 22:35:02 Nearly got my compiler working again. 22:35:08 Perhaps :-P 22:43:42 hopefully 22:43:55 Sadly, no. 22:43:59 I'm not sure what the problem is... 22:44:04 It makes C with a bunch of gotos X-D 22:44:29 :) 22:56:25 Oy. I'll get back to that later :-P 22:56:49 Note: 2L is subject to change when I look closely at my Hello World program and find that I misimplemented it today. 23:00:59 My befunge compiler makes C with _a lot_ of gotos. 23:01:07 Yay :-P 23:01:34 See http://befunge.org/~fis/out.c.txt for an example compilation of http://befunge.org/~fis/utm.html although I think I've advertised this thing here too much already. 23:02:15 Truly a masterpiece. 23:17:42 The compiler is still rather buggy. Haven't had time to fix. 23:20:55 i'll go. sleepy 23:21:04 good nite 23:21:14 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!"). 23:41:44 -!- GregorR-La has joined. 23:41:54 Hi GregorR-L, how are you :-P 23:58:47 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:59:41 Finally 23:59:44 -!- GregorR-La has changed nick to GregorR-L.