< 1117066120 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES! I win! I can't directly access the source, but I can access the DOM, which is good enough for what I need :) < 1117066843 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rgagnon.com/jsdetails/js-0034.html < 1117066903 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way < 1117066929 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my "brfd" debugger does not optimize at all :( < 1117066941 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what happened < 1117066967 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it beats the crap out of mine anyway :) < 1117067011 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because of having no java, I suppose < 1117067018 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1117067028 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compiled it to binary with gcj < 1117067045 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I wrote an optimizer, and spent some time debugging it < 1117067097 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably because Java programs are intrinsicly slower < 1117067111 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is true < 1117067123 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not for a factor of nearly 4! < 1117067185 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably superior coding :) < 1117067186 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpreter deals with chars, but Java AFAIK does not have a char type, everything is strings, right? < 1117067188 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1117067197 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERWIKI CONTENT! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! < 1117067207 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Java has char < 1117067352 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats GregorR-L < 1117067368 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does? hm... I have confused it with JS then < 1117067375 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Java, sorry < 1117067454 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH I've found the optimizing RUN module; I'm starting to remember that I decided to change it to avoid confusing people < 1117067545 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's frustrating and embarrassing to find out that you've been unconsciously lying to people < 1117067658 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries replacing run.c
< 1117067881 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(confusing people because it was supposed to show how the interpreter algorithm described in my article worked) < 1117068037 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. your code looks pretty close to mine. maybe gcj is not as good at optimizing as the C compiler < 1117068098 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be < 1117068157 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm putting brfd under svn control before making any further changes < 1117068402 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1117068536 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@host-225-163.dhcp.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1117068881 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. Sun's java seems to be about twice as fast as compiled gcj.... < 1117070921 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.242.247.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117070953 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117070994 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117071253 0 :That_Guy!~someone@adsl-68-90-144-220.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117071374 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello ? < 1117071399 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1117071432 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, a real person < 1117071482 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why thank you ;) < 1117071577 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, two real people. < 1117071584 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117071588 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four! < 1117071599 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + 1 = 4 < 1117071605 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did my message get trhough to the list? I got a bounce and I'm not sure it's OK < 1117071614 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for any sites for the beatnik language other than the authors site. < 1117071617 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which message is that < 1117071637 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that_guy: don't know any < 1117071637 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evolution of the proposal" < 1117071649 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That_Guy: Sorry, haven't heard of any. < 1117071651 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. that list. sorry, I'm a bit slow < 1117071657 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test1::Test2::Test1::Test2::Index < 1117071657 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is test wiki 2. < 1117071657 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test1::Index < 1117071663 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1117071667 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I got it < 1117071685 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay, thanks kipple_ < 1117071712 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to sleep, bye < 1117071731 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bummer but thanks anyway. < 1117071756 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make one, feel free to tell us :) < 1117071819 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just might... if i can find some time < 1117071869 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives That_Guy a bucket of time :P
< 1117071931 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks i'll need it, i'm moving soon. I never thought I had this much stuff. < 1117072187 0 :That_Guy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1117072758 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: before I leave... try this run.c: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/run.c < 1117072787 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made a difference for me at least < 1117072895 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test it later. can't right now < 1117072901 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 1m14.653s < 1117072901 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 1m12.166s < 1117072901 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.054s < 1117072908 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later meaning tomorrow.... < 1117072932 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1117072938 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'nite all < 1117072944 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite < 1117073658 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1117074319 0 :comet_11!Sanity@dialup-42.105.221.203.acc51-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1117075735 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1117077088 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1117077121 0 :pgimeno!pgimeno@124.Red-80-59-211.pooles.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117081403 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117081537 0 :graue!~piecrust@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117081549 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yello < 1117081662 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hullo graue < 1117081670 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which wiki software is on your page? < 1117081726 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki < 1117081746 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd like to know is why there's a separate files dir instead of sticking it all in the wiki. :) < 1117081854 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flat files are easier to browse and back up, and everything in the wiki is public domain, while stuff in the files directory may have other or ambiguous copyright < 1117081921 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1117082277 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHPWiki doesn't seem to support plugins >_> < 1117082342 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sleep" < 1117082391 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am deeply saddened by PHPWiki's lack of plugins. < 1117082509 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1117083725 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phpwiki isn't the greatest ;) < 1117083769 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any MoinMoin experts want to implement IWC (InterWiki Content) in it? < 1117083792 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1117083812 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we were going with MediaWiki.. it makes sense I think < 1117083824 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is totally unrelated to esowiki ;) < 1117083829 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay :) < 1117083831 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, I'm writing the plugin for MediaWiki (I speak PHP) < 1117083844 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing plugins for PHP wikis to support a simple InterWiki Content "standard", but I don't speak Python. < 1117083848 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been playing around a bit with Java applets.. having fun with that < 1117083900 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a simple shell wannabe thing, with fake filesystem and editor < 1117083906 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh, nice. < 1117084212 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. how do I make a blinking cursor.. hadn't considered that :) < 1117085167 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1117085520 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooh ^_^ < 1117085525 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got IWC working with PHPWiki :) < 1117085769 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will become very famous if your standard catches on < 1117085807 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can even charge people $33 to download a copy < 1117085994 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.245.192.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117086496 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't do that. < 1117086500 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a FOSS nut. < 1117088720 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think all software should be under this license: < 1117088721 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of the works is permitted provided that < 1117088721 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this instrument is retained with the works. < 1117088721 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY. < 1117088986 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the shortest version of the MIT/X Consortium license I've ever seen ;) < 1117089082 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes from http://svn.jwp.name/law/license/experimental/ideal < 1117092573 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or has SourceForge been slow today? < 1117093071 0 :puzzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117093131 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hullo < 1117093337 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1117093744 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making an InterWiki Content "standard" < 1117094399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1117094400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1117094418 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I forgot to ask what you meant by that < 1117094962 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can link to a page on another wiki, and it will display in your wiki, so the contents can be merged seamlessly. There's no obvious seam of templates. < 1117095233 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an example, compare http://giki.sourceforge.net and http://giki.sourceforge.net/iwclist/index.php?title=TheGikiWiki::Index < 1117097811 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back later < 1117097811 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Are you a Schweinpenis? If so, type "I am not a Schweinpenis."" < 1117098128 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1117099033 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1117099267 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiz < 1117099288 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exam < 1117099295 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assessment < 1117099388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluation < 1117099880 0 :calamari_!~calamari@dialup-4.240.243.63.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117099910 0 :graue!~piecrust@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117099927 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey GregorR, you should add the article about your 2L language to the esolang wiki < 1117099943 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is obviously original research, you know < 1117100792 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1117101249 0 :comet_11!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI < 1117104046 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117104166 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves
< 1117104317 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: there? < 1117106316 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work in progress: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/ < 1117106479 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far it has extremely primitive command line parsing (spaces only, no quotes or escapes).. but it does load and run each program.. they have their own main method < 1117106736 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, calamari_ < 1117106780 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the objective? < 1117106814 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: thanks.. I'd like to contribute to the wiki demo effort :) < 1117106903 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should make it easier, since it presents a comfortable interface (stdin/stdout .. you can use println), single directory filesystem.. not implemented yet, but will allow basic file operations) < 1117106950 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to automate the help command.. but haven't found a way to do so yet (Java gets uptight about security violations when I try to get a list of the class files) < 1117106983 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the file operations will be memory only.. once you leave the page, it's all gone < 1117107121 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for my dumbness but what does the "wiki demo effort" mean? < 1117107153 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, is there something that one can try apart from "help" and "ls"? < 1117107180 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing "echo" right now.. one min and I'll upload it :) < 1117107188 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1117107205 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was interest expressed in being able to try out esoteric languages right from the wiki < 1117107219 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh got it < 1117107249 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems less cumbersome than the usual input/output boxes and run button :) < 1117107360 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, indeed < 1117107371 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay echo should be up.. haven't tested iut yet :) < 1117107451 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it works :) .. don't even need to reload the applet! < 1117107476 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I did (I didn't know it wasn't needed) < 1117113291 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1117113885 0 :malaprop!~ph@adsl-68-73-230-100.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117115272 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: results with the optimizing run.c: < 1117115272 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 9m2.971s < 1117115272 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 8m55.830s < 1117115272 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.770s < 1117115477 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about 5 times faster than without optimization < 1117115663 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: there are ways to get around the security limitations regarding file listings from Java applets. < 1117116362 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1117117986 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: that's better huh? :) < 1117118210 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1117118252 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Sun's java runtime was twice as fast as gcj on my java interpreter < 1117118371 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I read that... it seems that gcj is still too preliminary as to compete with Sun's java < 1117118381 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I also got a Mail delivery failure when posting to lang < 1117118391 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it went through < 1117118396 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I got it < 1117118399 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just seen your message in there, btw < 1117118436 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subversion copes with the issues you state < 1117118445 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1117118448 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used cvs? < 1117118453 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely < 1117118502 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may at least know that when the repository is updated, the local copies synchronize by receiving only the changes < 1117118569 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the files stored in a manner that lets them be accessed independently via HTTP? < 1117118576 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, absolutely < 1117118627 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then it sounds like we're set :) < 1117118636 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/ < 1117118677 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the svn Apache module in action, that seems to be what graue has in the server < 1117118718 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn is strict wrt users; I think the maintainance is done by hand < 1117118818 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a potential problem: if graue and most or all of the initial editors lose interest, how are users going to be added? < 1117118832 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a very pessimistic point of view though < 1117118840 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. phone < 1117118865 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1117118943 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that even if that happens there's always the option of switching to a different host < 1117119298 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. yes. that's kind of the whole point of this project... :) < 1117119574 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1117119967 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, an svn repository can't be mirrored directly by clients; you need the svn admin to dump the repos. < 1117120348 0 :bajbak!~aaa@ll-26.104.64.62.sovam.net.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1117120605 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: yeah, but keeping the whole history is not the goal, just the files. A working copy is good enough. < 1117120638 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then under the 'fewer moving parts' ideal, files in the wiki would be better. < 1117120680 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dump similar to the mysql one could also be done anyway < 1117120692 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping the whole history would be nice though < 1117120692 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya, is just added hassle. < 1117120694 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just two files to transfer < 1117120705 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of one plus a tree < 1117120718 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a dump of the files could potentially be quite big < 1117120751 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could put the db-dumps in the file tree, and do it in one op < 1117120927 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if it is svn < 1117120942 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually yes, but I doubt it makes sense < 1117120990 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean committing the dump into the repository each week < 1117121012 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: I think he was saying the svn dump should be copied into the wiki tree. < 1117121031 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. not sure how to do it best < 1117121096 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wont the wiki have to have a files section anyway? At least to store images < 1117121108 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: Yes. < 1117121129 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that has to be backed up as well! < 1117121141 0 :bajbak!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1117121147 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will be in the wiki tree, we've already planned for it. < 1117121255 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about having a folder which contains the following: the current files from the svn, the files section of the wiki, and the current db-dump < 1117121274 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you just sync that one folder, and get everything < 1117121308 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a "svn up" is a very easy way to be in sync with the files section < 1117121320 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to download individual files et al < 1117121359 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would require the user to have svn, right? < 1117121377 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the people who are making backups < 1117121385 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is what I meant < 1117121409 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more software requirement... < 1117121457 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using svn regularly, it's pretty easy to use < 1117121465 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you have a point < 1117121471 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: I don't mean to sound overly negative here. I'm just thinking aloud... < 1117121498 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is rsync two-way? < 1117121523 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1117121544 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, could it be used to upload files as well as to downoad them? < 1117121544 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never actually _used_ rsync....
< 1117121560 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither... well, I've used rsync-backup but that's not the same < 1117121567 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsync command means 'make my local dir like that remote one'. Is one-way. < 1117121591 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, ok < 1117121633 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp + rsync is the only simple alternative to svn I can figure out < 1117121697 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to me it seems obvious that either you want incremental updates, in which case you need other software, or you use full updates, in which case it can work with just about anything < 1117121710 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean to be rude, but I think you guys are way overthinking the setup. < 1117121800 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably right, malaprop... what do you suggest? < 1117121882 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MediaWiki installed somewhere doing daily SQL/image dumps. Let everyone who wants to grab the dumps for mirror/backup/making of birdcage liner. Done. < 1117121966 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing something... what about the files dir? < 1117121971 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI-Fu < 1117121991 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the files in MediaWiki goes the same place as the images < 1117121993 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki internally treats all files as images. Is a legacy of how it developed, but they're all in one place. < 1117122026 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has restrictions on what file type can be uploaded, right? < 1117122060 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and trivial to modify or remove. < 1117122084 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. do you have to allow each type, or can you just allow everything? < 1117122091 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the files in the database too? < 1117122094 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use either strategy. < 1117122095 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1117122098 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1117122109 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, keeping large binary blobs in dbs is generally a bad idea. < 1117122140 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's anyway a separate download < 1117122180 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget example.com/sqldump.today.sql example.com/filedump.today.tar.bz2 < 1117122231 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed a simple solution < 1117122236 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that different to holding the files separately? < 1117122244 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are the license issues < 1117122256 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You automatically get all the MediaWiki interface niceties for dealing with files. < 1117122300 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the license issues are solved entirely by putting "This file is copyright by so-and-so" in the image/file caption. WikiPedia does this to pull in images under CreativeCommons licenses. < 1117122305 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia has files with different licences, so I don't think it is a problem, < 1117122337 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if graue comments on this < 1117122406 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not opposed to keeping the files in the wiki < 1117122415 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1117122448 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just concerned about potential issues that may arise in future < 1117122470 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing later is usually far more work than planning before < 1117123157 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true. But this approach doesn't require ANY particular software for taking a backup. Which I think is very nice < 1117123753 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on the point of view actually < 1117123768 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can download the subversion tree with wget via web, for example < 1117123850 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes it different is the upload interface < 1117123917 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of ftp, everybody is already used to it, I think < 1117124121 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: I added 2L to calamari's esowiki, so I guess now I add it to yet another :P < 1117124238 0 :CXI-Fu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI < 1117124295 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1117126795 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1117127187 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on file uploads: what's nice with the mediawiki approach, is that there is only one set of user accounts to administer. And they are part of the mysql-dump too < 1117129865 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@host-203-248.pubnet.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1117131748 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1117135003 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time now for review. < 1117135007 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by that I mean sleep. < 1117135011 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* < 1117136215 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1117139472 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117139473 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117139488 0 :cpressey!nobody@d154-20-76-195.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117139488 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117142573 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.241.4.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117142637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117142720 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1117142734 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file system is ready.. can create file, but can't edit them yet (next step) http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/ < 1117142738 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pgimeno < 1117142807 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, my mozilla crashes < 1117142825 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately I opened it under a different profile < 1117142835 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1117142855 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at work (windows + mozilla) it worked < 1117142859 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why it's not crashing here < 1117142890 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Java 1.5, but I'm pretty sure the latest I'm using is 1.4 < 1117142900 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be many reasons... jre version... mozilla version... < 1117142981 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this page crash? http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/applet.html < 1117143011 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1117143021 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay I feel better then :) < 1117143035 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1117143050 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's because we're using Swing < 1117143084 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what jre and mozilla are you running? < 1117143131 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla 1.7.7-2; I don't remember where to look to see the java version < 1117143159 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows? < 1117143167 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, debian < 1117143167 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: nice shell :) < 1117143175 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: thanks :) < 1117143177 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.4.2 it seems < 1117143209 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what do you have planned for it? < 1117143273 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: still need to implement file i/o. I'd like better parsing (escape sequences, quoted strings), simple i/o redirection with files, an editor < 1117143308 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the editor I'm wondering about. right now I jave a line editor planned, but maybe a full screen editor is better? < 1117143370 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with applets is that there is no copy/paste because of the security system.. unless you run linux, middle mouse button ;) < 1117143425 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, never mind.. paste seems to work. Maybe it's just copy that is disallowed < 1117143430 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that. how is that a security issue? < 1117143451 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: no clue < 1117143465 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm. I am able to copy < 1117143472 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cool then < 1117143478 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only from the prompt < 1117143486 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: hmm, i don't seem to be able to type anything to that textarea with gcjappletviewer < 1117143551 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I think the problem is that you can't select properly because you move the cursor as soon you click any where else than the prompt < 1117143560 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: I'm overriding some of the methods, maybe it doesn't understand DocumentHandler's yet < 1117143596 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: can you put the source somewhere so i can report bugs to gnu classpath? < 1117143603 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needed to prevent free scrolling, otherwise the terminal effect is lost < 1117143626 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: sure, but there are 0 comments, so it's somewhat ugly atm < 1117143639 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem at all < 1117143658 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i'll just strip it and try to create reduced testcases for individual bugs < 1117143739 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/EsoShell.tar.gz < 1117143792 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: 404 < 1117143811 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha.. it didn't go where I thought it did < 1117143819 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell.tar.gz < 1117143924 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, doesn't work in IE either.. need to work out these bugs :) < 1117144057 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't work in IE? here it works in IE, Mozilla and Opera < 1117144116 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, cool. It tells me, Main.EsoShell class not found... running it under QEmu, but that shouldn't matter < 1117144239 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should make the textarea read only, and then use key-events for input. That way you could let the user select anything regardless of the cursor < 1117144246 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: keyTyped does not seem to be called at all.. < 1117144278 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: will I still have a blinking cursor that way? < 1117144306 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. but I think you could make your own... < 1117144401 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either painting it directly, or inserting/removing a rectangular character every half a sec or something < 1117144456 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems slow < 1117144465 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1117144493 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also I don't know how to do that stuff < 1117144519 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1117144524 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've painted images to make a screen.. but that'd require a lot of downloading < 1117144544 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of the charset) < 1117144567 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they are individual PNGs < 1117144724 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about this: textarea.setText(textarea.getText(0, textarea.getText().length()-1) + "_"); < 1117144743 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternate with: textarea.setText(textarea.getText(0, textarea.getText().length()-1) + " "); < 1117144759 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, though? is there something wrong with the way I have it? :) < 1117144809 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only that you can't select properly. and it was you who brought it up :) < 1117144832 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that < 1117144927 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a big deal, but nice if you're going to have an editor < 1117144961 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the editor itself will be okay, because it'll be past the prompt < 1117144970 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. okay < 1117145000 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have to go with a full screen editor.. it's what people are used to < 1117145137 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, you're not going to be able to save anything... < 1117145146 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1117145158 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security restrictions in applets < 1117145170 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using real files < 1117145177 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning? < 1117145186 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fake filesystem I'm writing for the applet < 1117145203 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files are saved in memory < 1117145204 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: you're not going to be able to save anything ;) < 1117145222 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for the next time you load the console < 1117145225 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unavoidable, really < 1117145246 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can applets create cookies? < 1117145253 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not totally, actually < 1117145257 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm., don't know < 1117145294 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *could* have some CGI store the files.... < 1117145308 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we're getting complicated :) < 1117145343 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1117145437 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pass them to a file upload form through HTTP.... < 1117145488 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that the files are on the local machine already < 1117145493 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. not sure if it is important. depends on what it's going to be used for... < 1117145521 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the applet will never be allowed to store them there < 1117145762 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that applets can communicate with javascript somehow and javascript can store cookies < 1117145775 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1117145788 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems likely < 1117145812 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think applets can communicate with a browser directly to some extent as well < 1117145817 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: yes, that's what I'm seeing too :) < 1117145833 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/advanced-java/2000-August/012042.html < 1117145889 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, yeah < 1117145903 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never written an applet though, I can't be of much help here < 1117145952 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cookies have size limit restrictions < 1117145967 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely < 1117146232 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :std. max size for cookies is 4k < 1117146245 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that example: where does this JSObject class come from? can't find it in the API < 1117146361 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I saw this page, though: http://java.sun.com/products/plugin/1.3/docs/jsobject.html < 1117146413 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. it's a third party package < 1117146601 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookies can be 4k, including the site name storage :) < 1117146610 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 20 cookies per site < 1117146636 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then you have 80k storage :D < 1117146671 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1117146690 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to push the priority on this down a little < 1117146695 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117149234 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: around? < 1117149260 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1117149319 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've discussed previously about why not allowing uploading the files via MediaWiki < 1117149390 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main objection is that svn is just another piece of software to have to make the mirroring < 1117149446 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there will be no files? < 1117149451 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good way to allow multiple editors to add/update files < 1117149455 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I writing this applet for, then? :) < 1117149827 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: no files? < 1117149827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally think not allowing files is a terrible decision < 1117149827 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either i, or anyone else who wants to bother using subversion, can always make a .tar.bz2 for others to use for backups < 1117149827 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, the files directory will be separate from the wiki, but it will exist < 1117149827 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it already does :) < 1117149827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember one of the reasons we chose MediaWiki was that it allowed file uploading < 1117149827 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: I actually expected that there would be more files in zip/tarball form than in text form < 1117149827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use it? < 1117149827 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect the files in there to change at all < 1117149827 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, wiki is not good for organizing files into hierarchies < 1117149827 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file repository is like /language, /language/impl, /language/doc, /language/src, etc < 1117149827 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything needs to be visually illustrated on the wiki, images can be uploaded < 1117149827 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everything in the wiki should be PD just to avoid confusion, even files < 1117149827 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117149841 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: I don't see the problem < 1117149874 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just allow ppl to upload files where they think it's appropriate.. if they upload in the bf page, it's probably going to be a bf related file < 1117149926 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploads are not in a page; they just wind up in a global namespace < 1117149929 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploads can be restricted to certain users, right? < 1117149995 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: that sounds like a limitatiuon of MediaWiki then.. MoinMoin allowed attachments on any page < 1117150001 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: that's not bad for tarball distributions; it's bad for tree structures à la Cat's Eye < 1117150025 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I think he means that there's one single files dir, no subdirs < 1117150045 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would we have tarball distributions? most programs in brainfuck, intercal, wierd, snusp, etc are single files < 1117150075 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: okay.. but I don't see why that causes a problem either, really < 1117150079 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe for certain more sophisticated implementations, but not for programs written in most esoteric languages < 1117150100 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum, I was thinking more about the languages themselves than about the programs written with them < 1117150108 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: oh yeah.. don't forget to turn on Java, unless it's already on :) < 1117150133 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, turn on java? < 1117150140 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java support I mean < 1117150160 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what, my browser? < 1117150161 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can embed my applet < 1117150169 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the wiki page < 1117150203 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't embed it, you'll freeze everyone's computer for 10 seconds loading it even if they aren't interested < 1117150210 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to an external page that has it embedded < 1117150213 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: no < 1117150218 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not acceptable < 1117150233 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be on a separate wiki page < 1117150236 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine.. < 1117150250 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: about namespace collision: say, hello.bf - is it a befunge program or a brainfuck program? < 1117150273 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: I wonder if it'll tell you when you upload that the file already exists? < 1117150290 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it will < 1117150303 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.b is brainfuck, .bf is befunge < 1117150312 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a problem of lack of a directory hierarchy < 1117150342 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: it was just an example of namespace collision :) < 1117150344 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: so, how about having the applet on it's own wiki page.. that way it's not loaded unless the person wants it.. is that cool? < 1117150377 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine, but why does it need to be on a wiki page? < 1117150397 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is to be able to have enerything in one place... < 1117150418 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have it on a wiki page? < 1117150506 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how are special pages handled... if they can be special in that they support any html, a special page can probably do it < 1117150510 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking wiki = information, files = code < 1117150608 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as where the files are kept can be easily linked to from the wiki, and easily uploaded to I'm happy < 1117150620 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easily backed up, of course < 1117150632 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see why the normal user can't upload files < 1117150683 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are potential security risks: what if someone uploads a php file.... < 1117150745 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it become executable? < 1117150761 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just be an attachment < 1117150766 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it? < 1117150778 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it's usually set up files with a php extension are automatically executed < 1117150782 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's on the web server, wouldn't it be executed? < 1117150787 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. the only exception that I know of at the moment would be for the java applets < 1117150824 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exception to what? I'm not sure what you are referring to there... < 1117150999 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. I meant that attachments should just be downloadable files unless its an applet < 1117151043 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand. applets are not single files. they have at least two... (HTML and class/jar) < 1117151156 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I assumed it would be a jar.. someone in here sid that mediawiki supported running java applets.. that's what I'm basing this on :) < 1117151171 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's wrong.. then sorry :) < 1117151216 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I see it, you should both be able to download the applet's jar, or run it on the wiki. < 1117151230 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds reasonable to me < 1117151384 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happened to my java interpreter :( < 1117151406 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter for what? < 1117151416 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for java < 1117151433 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked some days ago < 1117151450 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it crashes my mozilla < 1117151450 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreting java? or an interpreter written in java? < 1117151456 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1117151460 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime < 1117151778 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: did you see my last entry on Talk: Language list? < 1117151795 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1117151798 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found the way to put the list in the navigation menu < 1117151820 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't have permissions to test it < 1117151976 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! I've run the java applet in the original profile (after saving my tabs) and it worked... it's like java does not like multiple instances