< 1119657602 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any portable mp3 players that are programmable? < 1119657620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1119657622 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1119657630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not officially < 1119657635 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unofficially, yes. < 1119657643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ipod is one i believe? < 1119657647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iriver also < 1119657688 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipod is definately programmable < 1119657754 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is to work out how to do it. The only non-reprogrammable ones are implemented in pure-hardware which is not common < 1119657800 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@c-24-61-94-111.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119657803 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I am going to point out to Dunric where the current rules can be abused < 1119657836 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool.. I gave him the 2899 + 8192 example, but that didn't seem to phase him < 1119657856 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: can I use/paraphrase/steal your suggested rules (with due credit) < 1119657873 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: am not sure about it as it would probably be better for it to seem completely independant < 1119657879 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, and that'd be great too, because he'll be hearing the same thing again from someone new < 1119657918 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am tempted to post it to as RFD to raif (rec.arts.int-fiction) < 1119657934 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won last year, mention that ;) < 1119657953 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1119657976 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good idea < 1119657993 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wording can be improved.. I'm not the greatest writer, which kinda rules me out of serious IF, but this 2k stuff seems a bit different < 1119658006 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am researching other 2Kb(ish) competitions to gather a common rule set < 1119658025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^}: have you written any "normal" IF? < 1119658029 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own writing can be pretty awful < 1119658085 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, quite a lot, including games, game engines and IF development tools < 1119658144 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be quite prolific in the late eighties and early ninties < 1119658148 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1119658154 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late eighties! < 1119658159 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's before inform isnt it < 1119658230 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before Graham Nelson's Inform became widely used. I think that the original Infocom ZCode engine predates my original game < 1119658246 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhh < 1119658247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1119658250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it does < 1119658260 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second IF game ever was written in it < 1119658374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only text adventure I played of any length of time was called something like "leather goddesses of phobos". I don't remember what that title was about, and I never beat the game.. it was fun, though < 1119658401 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that game is hard < 1119658425 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was big, I liked that < 1119658435 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big games are intimidating :( < 1119658464 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that since Colossal Cave was 1972ish and ZCode was 1979 < 1119658484 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, real life beckons.. bbl < 1119658492 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"<=K" < 1119658513 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Zork was originally written in MDL and released in 1977, but there has to be a wealth of IF in the intervening years < 1119659189 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.111.107.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119659197 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, escaped back to eso and < 1119659205 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :land even < 1119661121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm, .... ok < 1119661123 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm undecided now < 1119661157 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having an 8K data file is really a lot of space. where's the challenge? < 1119661186 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]" < 1119661305 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: choose not to use it :) < 1119661339 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to, but it's true.. there is no challenge that way < 1119661450 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i mean, there still can be a challenge, but it's mostly the same as any other IF competition - just design and implement a good game. 10K is plenty of space to do that in, if you're any good at writing small code. < 1119661468 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I am going to try to make the biggest and best game I can < 1119661470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the thing is, i'm running out of ideas, before i've run out of space. heh < 1119661489 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chris: i hear that :) < 1119661554 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good programmer can do a lot in less than 2,899 bytes of code < 1119661571 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Several complete operating systems were 2k or less) < 1119661602 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :came across this page, it's quite interesting: http://www.costik.com/nowords.html < 1119661646 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: That title is so Harlan Elison < 1119661653 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: generally those are they types of operating systems where you have to look up "error 231" in a separate manual :) < 1119661678 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: who is that? < 1119661710 0 :KarlMarx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1119661806 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harlan Ellison is an author of Science Fiction. < 1119661815 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very good SF) < 1119661888 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title of the Costik page refers to his short-story "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" < 1119661914 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1119661925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he refers to IF as "interactive fantasy" < 1119661950 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: there're much better articles on IF game design. < 1119662012 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: cool.. I just came across this one.. it was really a sidenote as it seems to concentrate on other types of games more than IF.. I think he brings up some good points about what can make a game fun (or prevent it from being so) < 1119662015 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example this: http://www.inform-fiction.org/manual/html/ch8.html < 1119662020 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a few weeks to read it :) < 1119662047 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IFWiki has a lot of useful information http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page < 1119662096 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: so you're going for the whole 10k, then? < 1119662133 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It would be too easy for me to knock-up another game based on my original engine < 1119662192 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I am going for the full 10k because I want to see how far I can take the concept < 1119662301 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: For me I feel that I have explored the 2k limit to my own logical ends, < 1119662341 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: The 10k limit presents a really difficult challenge to overcome with what I am planning < 1119662915 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, here is what I got the 2nd time around: The adventure game source file can be anywhere from 1 to 2.8k. It's still a 1-2k contest, in that entries (source code, anyway) will usually be 1-2k in size. The extra data file allowed (consisting of 8,192 bytes) makes 2k games playable to a larger extent, and in essence makes the games entered adventure game drivers, a la Scott Adams. < 1119662947 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever scott adams is.. you'd probably know :) < 1119663065 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Have we met on r*if? I am sure that I know you from elsewhere. < 1119663096 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"usually be 1-2k in size" ??? < 1119663119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hazard to guess that if the limit is 2.8k, most entries would be, well, 2.8k in size :) < 1119663151 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: 2.83Kb is still 2Kb (if you're rounding down), but last year several entries were under 1Kb < 1119663223 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... but two of those entries seemed more like jokes than serious entries to me < 1119663336 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, i don't know what will score higher in the judging - good (i.e. playable) game or small game. < 1119663350 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to me: good game < 1119663365 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what concerns me most is that there was only one reviewer and judge last year < 1119663367 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from last year, anyways) < 1119663420 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I think that it will be the same this year < 1119663437 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, another response: VIC-20 text adventures used to require at least 3K of RAM expansion, and sometimes 8K. Some text adventures were written that barely fit into the 3,584 bytes of RAM afforded by an unexpanded VIC, but they were barely playable. That is why a "playable" text adventure needs at least 8K of data. < 1119663548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1119663555 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just write something i like < 1119663561 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sounds good < 1119663636 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have only ever written for myself, I don't believe that there is any other honest ay work < 1119663652 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way to write < 1119663659 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: for work < 1119663681 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^}: perhaps we have < 1119663692 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i haven't written any < 1119663758 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing i ever did for IF was some sort of language that compiled to Scott Adams' platform < 1119663766 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i never even released that < 1119663842 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Scott_Adams < 1119663845 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1119666150 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1119666562 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION if off to bed (to watch Highlander)
< 1119666706 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnite peeps < 1119668288 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1119672882 0 :watermellonz!ladpuddy@as5800-1.216-194-0-199.nyc.ny.metconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119672894 0 :watermellonz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1119673370 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1119676193 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676197 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676197 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676197 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676197 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676198 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676201 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676202 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676202 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676202 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676202 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676204 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676349 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :CXI!Sanity@dialup-215.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :malaprop!~ph@adsl-69-208-101-159.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :pgimeno!pgimeno@124.Red-80-59-211.pooles.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :lindi-!~lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :cpressey!nobody@d154-20-76-195.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :puzzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :deltab!~deltab@82-46-140-217.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :{^Raven^}!~{^Raven^}@82-38-204-252.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676349 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1119676831 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676836 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676836 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676836 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676836 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676837 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676838 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676840 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676840 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676840 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676840 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676840 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1119676924 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :CXI!Sanity@dialup-215.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :malaprop!~ph@adsl-69-208-101-159.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :pgimeno!pgimeno@124.Red-80-59-211.pooles.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :lindi-!~lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :cpressey!nobody@d154-20-76-195.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :{^Raven^}!~{^Raven^}@82-38-204-252.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :deltab!~deltab@82-46-140-217.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :puzzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1119676924 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1119676990 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sleep" < 1119686399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1119686400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1119695432 0 :jix!jix@p5489F07B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119701352 0 :tokigun!~tokigun@219.248.202.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1119702438 0 :J|x!jix@p5489AD3C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119702472 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1119702474 0 :J|x!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1119709106 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1119709264 0 :tokigun!~tokigun@219.248.202.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1119726085 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@lilly.csoft.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119726090 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1119726406 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin calamari < 1119726918 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi jix, how's it going? < 1119726939 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few people are making games now, or at least planning to :) < 1119726984 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1119726994 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi raven < 1119727074 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I finally figured out the syntax of the BFBASIC BF command :) < 1119727086 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha.. not much syntax there to be found ;) < 1119727119 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you need it for? needing that is generally a bad sign < 1119727139 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, it's nice writing otherwise pure brainfuck with just a few @myvar's scattered in < 1119727177 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at it for code optimisation mainly < 1119727182 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah.. didn't think of that! < 1119727238 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of myvar=2 using BF @myvar[-]++ < 1119727241 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm pretty sure I came up with the @ syntax, but who knows, my memory could be going < 1119727260 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. it makes it a lot easier to see what is going on < 1119727263 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that the BF statement doesn't have any pre/post code around it < 1119727306 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are array elements supposed to be 2 cells wide? < 1119727309 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course.. then it wouldn't be raw. Although, it might have post code before it < 1119727316 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 2 elements < 1119727327 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cells, whatever :) < 1119727341 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is used for data, the other for movement < 1119727376 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, i;'m not sure if it's me but BF @array(1)[-]@array(2) generates (>>>etc)[-]>[-] < 1119727391 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of (>>>etc)[-]>>[-] < 1119727398 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 3 cells leading the array as well < 1119727417 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x b a (or x a b), can't remember < 1119727472 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I documented it somewhat on the wiki < 1119727588 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, the way it works is: 1) movement cells start off as 0's. 2) take element index we want to find, do [>>] which gives us an empty movement cell, increment it, do [<<] to get back, decrement the index, repeat until index =0.. so now the movement cells are populated with 1's, and we can do something like [>>]< or [>>]> to get to the data cell < 1119727621 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) transwer the data with a simple add loop, using [>>] and [<<] instead of > <.. < 1119727624 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do arrays have a zeroth cell? < 1119727642 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there are all the fine details that go along with getting it right, but that's the basic idea of how it works < 1119727644 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1119727681 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check the 0 cell, 1 cell, and max cell, max-1, max+1 < 1119727689 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err cell -> element < 1119727699 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make sure everything is working as expected < 1119727715 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely that one of those is where the bug is < 1119727748 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been having fun researching his game
< 1119727755 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I am getting the impression that arrays are not always contigous < 1119727775 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will play with using BF to simplify tracking < 1119727784 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that a movement cell is not getting cleared out and it's going off to lala land < 1119727827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my bit debugger pretty close to done.. I should do a bf version, since I like the interface < 1119727857 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make this sort of thing a LOT easier to debug, than trying to do it by hand < 1119728044 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be done with the bit debigger already, but I ran into a problem the other day.. if the program was running, I couldn't stop it, because it was using the same thread as Swing. I could use multiple threads, but I lose a bit of control, and can't do certain things. But, the other night I realized that I could just use step, and a special runnign flag, so the view knows when the model is done running. < 1119728069 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way it's all in one thread, and it'll be cool because you'd see the highlighted instruction moving as it ran < 1119728096 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also makes possible the Pass button (for running iuntil a loop is done) < 1119728114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyhow, yeah.. it is almost done, just got caught up in this adventure game stuff :) < 1119728127 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get to other work tho.. so afk < 1119728223 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1119729334 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is playing with a version of BFBSAIC that doesn't expand @var's into arrows
< 1119729399 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is doing dishonest programming.. or whatever it was you called it the other day :)
< 1119734317 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bbl" < 1119737652 0 :J|x!jix@p5489AD3C.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1119738378 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1119739761 0 :Keymaker!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1119739772 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ello < 1119740380 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are anybody here? < 1119740454 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1119740480 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1119740480 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1119740734 0 :J|x!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1119740745 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: me is here < 1119740890 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me sees now < 1119741377 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is vauguely around
< 1119741841 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1119743099 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]" < 1119743105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh!!!!!! < 1119743112 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just writing a question for tokigun < 1119743123 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anyways, maybe someone other knows.. < 1119743148 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, does a whirl program start from the beginning again if there is no 'terminate program' instruction? < 1119743461 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I've seen this déjà vu before.."