< 1120176011 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a small bit, but I dont think you should. :) < 1120176020 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not... < 1120176030 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will have the special edition 5d < 1120176038 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee hee. < 1120176043 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you said to me where to post the code < 1120176047 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do it now. < 1120176128 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm...time-travel maybe possible in hcbf :) < 1120176150 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do place like geocities still host files for free? I'm sort of out of that loop. < 1120176195 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you can get free geocities space with a yahoo id, tripod does free hosting < 1120176227 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yrz@inverno:~/wrk/eso$ tar cvzf hcbf5d-0.0.1.tar.gz hcbf5d-0.0.1/ < 1120176237 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u happy? < 1120176287 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused < 1120176287 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name does'nt make sense < 1120176300 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5dbf should sonds better < 1120176306 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm quite drunk. < 1120176316 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better if i go sleep. < 1120176389 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niyr. < 1120176392 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite. < 1120176395 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite < 1120176400 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1120176403 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1120176412 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gonna shutdown my box < 1120176425 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this nighy < 1120176435 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a... < 1120176442 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you call... < 1120176444 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1120176445 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storm. < 1120176446 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1120176818 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1120178296 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1120180661 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1120180678 0 :comet_11!Sanity@dialup-210.88.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1120181363 0 :comet_11!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI < 1120186089 0 :BigZaphod!~BigZaphod@66.6.34.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1120187546 0 :Alf1973!Boinc-User@a81-197-245-143.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1120187609 0 :Alf1973!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1120188559 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite peeps < 1120189605 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.92.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120189611 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1120189805 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120190133 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi graue < 1120190815 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1120190841 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a bunch of cool languages discussed on the mailing list ages ago, of which information does not seem to be available elsewhere < 1120190881 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cliff Biffle's Dumbf*ck seems rather interesting, from http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2001-q2-1 < 1120191752 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bbl" < 1120192965 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1120196928 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.66.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120201483 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1120201483 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1120201618 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1120201843 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone played with this: http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html ? < 1120201894 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to run it in a C BF interpreter, but my cpu is maxed and I've not seen any output for a few minutes now... not sure if it is broke or just still working on working. :) < 1120202052 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this interp: http://swapped.cc/bf/ < 1120202194 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay, maybe that interp is bad. there's one included with the game that seems to run it right away. < 1120204663 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an optimizing compiler < 1120204799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1120204800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1120205796 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.66.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120205810 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1120205831 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: I've made 1.42.. but "print var" doesn't seem to work right.. it's always printing 0 < 1120206050 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow.. I need to go to bed.. I'll commit what I have, for now < 1120206207 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :committed.. 'night < 1120206209 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1120207813 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1120207815 0 :lament!~lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120208126 0 :tokigun!~tokigun@219.248.202.39 JOIN :#esoteric < 1120208139 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1120208673 0 :yrz\werk!~yaro@host164-176.pool8250.interbusiness.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1120213929 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1120214508 0 :yrz\werk!~yaro@82.52.178.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1120216866 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BigZaphod; Lost Kingdom makes two assumptions about the interpreter, cells wrap on underflow/overflow and cells are 8 bits wide < 1120222946 0 :jix!jix@p5489FF23.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120222959 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1120222973 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hullo < 1120223179 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1120224452 0 :malaprop!~ph@adsl-69-208-101-159.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120226365 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Can you give me some example code that does not work? the only thing I have found is an issue with bfdebug and -ddd < 1120227430 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120231163 0 :fungebob!~BYUMUG@67.106.148.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1120231194 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hidy ho everybody < 1120231348 0 :jimbo0000!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1120231842 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, fungebob < 1120231853 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hullo < 1120232107 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey i got a question about funge if anyones interested in answering: what happens if you 'g' from a blank cell? or if you 'p' a non-funge command to a cell and the pc passes over it? < 1120233949 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1120234200 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1120235257 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'g' from blank is 32, executing a noncommand is noop afair. < 1120235297 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good befunge interpreter should have at least two modes i think - strict and not strict. < 1120235329 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in strict every doubtful action should complain, in non-strict it should be some reasonable defaults. < 1120235444 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very sensible - what do you think about blocking on input? should stdin be empty when its time to read, should it have another mode to set whether a zero is pushed, nothing pushed, or program waits for input? < 1120235499 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should wait, that's common for console esolanguages. < 1120235552 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing pushes is not convenient. pushing zero means binary zero on input is not possible. < 1120235592 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some "action" mode with pushing some special char (not 0-255, and not EOF) is reasonable too. < 1120235641 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so i guess these complaints might warrant a stderr stream < 1120235674 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, thus non-strict would be just 2>/dev/null < 1120235798 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a general policy on how esolang should iteract with outside world somewhere long ego. < 1120236248 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you say that the general popularity of esolang has gone up or down in recent years? < 1120236359 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it goes down for me, or maybe just community became too dispersed < 1120236406 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also quite less place left for simple conceptions, basically all of them are already explored. < 1120237009 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not entirely sure what it is i find so attractive about esolang - it's definitely off the beaten path < 1120237030 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many people in the history of the world would you say have ever written a funge program? < 1120239346 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1120239696 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, was travelling to home. hard to say, maybe around hundred of them have published their codes. maybe a thousand total. < 1120241273 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I deserve the "idiot of the day" award, or something < 1120241341 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my "proof" with Archway is totally invalid, because the method for translating Brainfuck programs to Archway doesn't work < 1120241351 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/archway/archway.txt <-- what's wrong with these examples? < 1120241388 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe Archway is a marginally interesting language anyway (I just implemented it) < 1120241394 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat looks like this: < 1120241399 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /.\ < 1120241402 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \,/ < 1120241614 0 :BigZaphod!~BigZaphod@198.45.23.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1120241872 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, BigZaphod < 1120242688 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi BigZaphod < 1120242704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: really? it seemed valid... although there was one small hole that i noticed, that is, Archway does allow paths to cross (the method of translating Brainfuck to it doesn't use it though) < 1120242709 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: < 1120242710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /\ < 1120242714 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ <--- < 1120242718 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1120242720 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : v < 1120242739 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the path goes left, up, right, down (and crosses itself there) < 1120242769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard to 'fix' by adding two 'instructions' which act like 'pipes' and only allow either up-down motion or side-to-side < 1120242804 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i don't think there's any serious doubt, even though maybe none of the proofs are 100% watertight... < 1120243071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: actually, where is the example of translating brainfuck to archway? i can't find it anymore... < 1120243465 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi, lots of wiki changes! < 1120243809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so most of them are m < 1120243856 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I removed the examples because they were bogus < 1120243888 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I thought that a[bc]d could be translated to < 1120243889 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /bc\ < 1120243889 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a/ \d < 1120243951 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to convert a brainfuck program (dbc's rot13) to archway, but it seems to require extra throwaway cells to make the loops work right < 1120243962 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1120243966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's close < 1120243975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some sort of conditional version of \ and / < 1120243993 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are conditional < 1120243996 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, unconditional? < 1120244034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, yes... i guess what i mean is you probably need either 4 instructions, or more-complicated semantics < 1120244187 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done with ^ as an unconditional "start going up", % as "move one cell to the right and then go down" and & as "if current cell is 1 go left else go right," as follows: < 1120244188 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : % < 1120244188 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : b < 1120244188 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : c < 1120244188 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^&d < 1120244208 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, substitute "nonzero" for "1" < 1120244344 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "unconditional" with "conditional" < 1120244346 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: i see, re cat...on program start we hit a \ and according to the rules, the pointer moves down and outside of the program < 1120244365 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^}, no, the current cell is 0 at that point, so it's a nop < 1120244401 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: ahh, yes < 1120244429 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the ^%& language, a[b[c]d]e becomes < 1120244429 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : % < 1120244429 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : c < 1120244429 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : &b^&d% < 1120244429 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^ &e < 1120244506 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can eliminate wire crossing by using = and | as pipes, where if the IP is moving horizontally and hits | or vertically and hits =, the program ends, and if the IP moves into a blank space or anything else the program ends < 1120244537 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather than the program ending, it could just be an error, with the only valid way for the program to end being to go off the right of the starting row < 1120244622 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now we'd have < 1120244623 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@lilly.csoft.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120244623 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : % < 1120244623 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |c < 1120244623 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : &b^&d% < 1120244623 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^=====&e < 1120244634 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: sorry ;) < 1120244694 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, thought I interrupted the middle of a program.. guess not < 1120244711 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1120244714 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: you're right, only 3 are needed... very, uh, "pretty" example code, btw :) < 1120244719 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1120244853 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari < 1120244855 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: maybe it's only a bfdebug bug, then? -dd seems to work fine for a different interpreter.. didn't try -dd inside bfdebug < 1120244873 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ddd wasn't working correctly inside bfdebug < 1120244885 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it can't really be tested outside it, for obvious reasons :) < 1120244885 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i ran a number of small test programs and only -ddd fell over < 1120244913 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. the only real difference is that -ddd doesn't output the > or < < 1120244918 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's weird < 1120245049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: hmmm... what if... make \ work unconditionally right->down, but conditionally left-up... / could be unconditionally both up->right and down->left... ? < 1120245049 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: two options: bfdebug works fine and babasic is flawed but seems to work 99% of the time, or bfdebug has an issue with embedded @vars < 1120245049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: no wait, n/m < 1120245128 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: my bet is on a bfdebug problem, since it hasn't been as well tested :) < 1120245154 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: -dd + varmap will give us the answer to this < 1120245172 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.. because bfdebug will really mess up then < 1120245187 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will see the @var's and go there, then do > and < on top of that < 1120245263 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should require something like $$ that activates the @var's < 1120245282 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfdebug reads @var map, executes code as usual but when encountering an @var in the program it checks the current cell and complains if they do not agree < 1120245299 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's bad < 1120245340 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay if @var and actual cell don't agree, in certain situations < 1120245366 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking individual array elements would be a problem < 1120245380 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1120245408 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if @myvar is supposed to be in cell 34 and it is referenced while we are on cell 35 that tells us that a misalignment has occured < 1120245432 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok if you don't think it would work < 1120245451 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, cpressey: the pipes (= and |) idea doesn't prevent wirecrossing, because +, -, etc might still be used multiple times < 1120245452 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: it's fine.. for example, imagine if you did >@myvar < 1120245489 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows for weird situations to occur, sure.. but some tricker bf code needs it < 1120245507 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not good at writing tricky bf code, so I can't provide an example :) < 1120245570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you write me a quick -ddd program? a = 123: print a (that's it).. then I can test from here < 1120245611 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1120245662 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be in #flood < 1120245666 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1120245756 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@lilly.csoft.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120245759 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's < 1120245776 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: you can paste it as a private message, I suppose :) ircii doesn't care about flooding :) < 1120245870 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _Q(1)) < 1120245870 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _G(1)) < 1120245870 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _T(1)) < 1120245870 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _0(1)) < 1120245871 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _1(1)) < 1120245874 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _2(1)) < 1120245875 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _3(1)) < 1120245879 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _4(1)) < 1120245881 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _5(1)) < 1120245883 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _6(1)) < 1120245885 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM _T0(1)) < 1120245887 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DIM A(1)) < 1120245889 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_Q=0$_G=1$_T=2$_0=3$_1=4$_2=5$_3=6$_4=7$_5=8$_6=9$_T0=10$A=11 < 1120245891 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FIRST) < 1120245893 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (code) @_G+@_Q+[ < 1120245897 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A=123) < 1120245900 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (pre) @_G[@_T[-]+@_G-]@_T[@_G+ < 1120245901 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (code) @_T0[-]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ < 1120245903 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ < 1120245906 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ++++++++@A[-]@_T0[@A+@_T0-] < 1120245910 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{PRINT} < 1120245911 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (code) (PRINT a) < 1120245913 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (_T0=A) < 1120245915 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @_T0[-]@A[@_T0+@_0+@A-]@_0[@A+@_0-]@_1[-]@_2[-]@_3[-]@_4[-]@_ < 1120245918 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : T0[@_3+[@_4+@_0+@_3-]@_0[@_3+@_0-]+@_4----------[@_0-@_4[-]]@ < 1120245920 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _0[@_2+@_3[-]@_0-]@_2[@_4+@_0+@_2-]@_0[@_2+@_0-]+@_4--------- < 1120245921 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -[@_0-@_4[-]]@_0[@_1+@_2[-]@_0-]@_T0-]@_1[@_0++++++++[@_1++++ < 1120245923 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ++@_2++++++@_0-]@_1.@_2.[-]@_1[-]]@_2[@_0++++++++[@_2++++++@_ < 1120245925 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0-]@_2.[-]]@_0++++++++[@_3++++++@_0-]@_3.[-]@_0++++++++++.[-] < 1120245927 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(END) < 1120245930 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (code) @_Q- < 1120245932 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (post) @_T-] < 1120245933 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LAST) < 1120245935 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (code) @_Q] < 1120245940 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... possible oops there < 1120246051 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be cool in the log :) < 1120246138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for compiling that for me < 1120246206 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no probs, but next time I'll send you a url. Uploading to my web site is a matter of doing cp < 1120246334 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1120246342 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: argh, you're right. i guess that's one reason why i just tried to eliminate keeping track of any sort of 'direction state' in beturing... < 1120246524 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem found < 1120246552 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the line wrapping causes the @ and var to be split in some cases < 1120246563 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to ignore whitespace, and it should be fixed < 1120246674 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. manually moved the split lines and the program worked fine < 1120246890 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll do some more tests to confirm that < 1120246893 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl. food < 1120247336 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1120247376 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120247727 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Archway is possible to write anything nontrivial in < 1120247746 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm missing something, though < 1120247845 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1120247847 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1120247895 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@lilly.csoft.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120247905 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems impossible, when having looped, and having the same position and direction as at an earlier time, to then do the same thing regardless of whether the last / or \ you hit was ignored or turned on < 1120247937 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf I've put 1.21 up .. I was really working on 1.30 at home, but this will will for now :) < 1120247939 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is possible to compute in Archway, it at least isn't easy to convert Brainfuck programs < 1120247957 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will ->work < 1120247973 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this work work for now? < 1120248067 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: some langs repeat a word for plural, so you could say work work -> works < 1120248072 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1120248092 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1120248196 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go get some food myself.. afk < 1120248214 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my conclusion is that Archway is unusable for computation; I can't even write [-] in it < 1120248371 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: i still think it deserves a mention on the wire-crossing page, because it was the inspiration for Braktif (that is, the structure of the programs; at the time i didn't realize the flaw) < 1120248429 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'll work it in when i mention (and add an entry for) Braktif < 1120248537 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1120248827 0 :yrz\werk_!~yaro@host32-180.pool8250.interbusiness.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1120249094 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: have a good example of -ddd strangeness for you < 1120249288 0 :yrz\werk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1120249343 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: what's wrong with this archway code? < 1120249353 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.. it isn't going to paste here very well.. :) < 1120249368 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try anyway. < 1120249368 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /\ < 1120249368 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -/ < 1120249369 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++/ < 1120249409 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two lines at the top should left-aline with the bottom slash. < 1120249428 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aline = align < 1120249455 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to run it, the archway interp just returns like it didn't do anything. I might be missing something. < 1120249474 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: @_0-@_T0[@_0-@_T0-]@_0[@_T0+@_0-]@_T0[@_L1+@_G-@_T0[-]] < 1120249481 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: notice the @G ? < 1120249487 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err @_G < 1120249508 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in the not function? < 1120249557 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: (_T0=NOT(_T0)) < 1120249574 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1120249644 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does look odd < 1120249700 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: btw, what's the word on daily wiki dumps ? < 1120249757 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NOT is @_0-@_T0[@_0-@_T0-]@_0[@_T0+@_0-] < 1120249876 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's that extra junk doing there I wonder < 1120250029 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post code for label _F1? < 1120250047 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in the -dd version and that works perfectly < 1120250064 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be goto code < 1120250100 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would jump to L1 < 1120250128 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess is _F1 < 1120250146 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it is.. :) < 1120250151 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the end of IF NOT(expr) THEN GOTO _F1 < 1120250204 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the -ddd version here displays 06 and terminates in the middle of the program < 1120250224 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it should loop and display 0 to 255 < 1120250226 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. it is crashing actually java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 < 1120250359 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see something.. one minute < 1120250431 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.. another bfdebug bug.. ~ is a valid variable name character < 1120250447 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one min.. I'll make 1.22 ;) < 1120250567 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BigZaphod, there's no loop there... < 1120250587 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you add four, then you get to the / and go up, subtract one, now you have three < 1120250612 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you turn around, subtract one again (now you have two) and go left < 1120250621 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuing off the left side and ending the program < 1120250636 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you're trying to do with that code < 1120250637 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. heh. I see.. < 1120250888 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: btw, what's the word on daily wiki dumps ? < 1120250902 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard you the first time < 1120250904 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a minute < 1120250947 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1120250955 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, need to upload 1.22 < 1120250956 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1120250992 0 :calamari!~jeffryj@lilly.csoft.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120251006 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: okay.. 1.22 .. :/ < 1120251027 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloaded it 3 mins ago :D < 1120251056 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1120251113 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has gone through first 4 iterations with no problems or errors < 1120251129 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I let mine get to 10 before I stopped it < 1120251151 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'd be worth it to let it go all the way to 255 < 1120251172 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it will now get dumped every day at 22:24 or so UTC < 1120251181 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can continue to download the dump at 00:01 UTC for simplicity, of course < 1120251192 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: excellent.. thanks < 1120251214 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: it's nice to see the wiki is alive again, thx < 1120251218 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl.. need food < 1120251226 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1120251263 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was never dead, unless you mean the server outage for about an hour that one time < 1120251491 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki is great, thanks for it graue. < 1120251536 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1120251810 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, should I come up with some way to leave users' preferences, email addresses, passwords etc out of the database dump? < 1120251839 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer password wasn't in the dump, but email and such I don't care about. < 1120251854 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's hashed < 1120251871 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if your password is (e.g.) "corn" it can be cracked easily < 1120251890 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, how'd you know?! < 1120251893 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1120251901 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I haven't tried to do that, is I thought someone might want to set up an exact copy of the wiki, user accounts and all < 1120251920 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be valuable, should you get hit by a bus. < 1120251923 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not a great idea, though < 1120251931 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1120251953 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta run, l8r all < 1120251963 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1120252046 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a .htaccess to prevent casual downloading < 1120252060 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1120252067 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone would have to ask me for a password then? < 1120252089 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no set one master password which is given privately to known people < 1120252133 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if wget (or similiar) is set ot download the backup each day it can automatically provide the user/pass pair < 1120252151 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it would take then is one person to be careless with the password, and the password may as well not exist < 1120252176 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And given that the dump has had hashed passwords in it for the last few weeks, that horse has already left the barn. < 1120252200 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those passwords can be changed < 1120252560 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, done, mw_user/mw_user_newtalk/mw_user_rights are no longer being dumped < 1120252617 0 :sergacity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1120252647 0 :jix!jix@p5489CFCC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1120252684 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin moin < 1120252705 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello jix < 1120252749 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just noted that my wiki backup cron entry wasn't working < 1120252806 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it seems to have a strange schedule or something < 1120252828 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just updated the dump now, and also it will now update daily, due to calamari's request < 1120252843 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2 files are manual backups (for testing the commandline) < 1120252845 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can grab it only once a week if that's all you feel like doing < 1120252849 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1120252874 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cron entry for performing the backup didn't work at first because I didn't realize all the filenames had to be absolute < 1120252889 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't run ~/svnup.sh, I had to run /home/myusername/svnup.sh < 1120252902 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, dbdump.sh, though. svnup was a different cron entry < 1120252914 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a date command for generating the path < 1120252922 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and insert it into the wget command < 1120252933 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes oneliners < 1120252947 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my .sh file is only one line if you don't count "#!/bin/sh" < 1120252954 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just easier to edit as a separate file < 1120253358 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how hard it is to make a Turing-complete language with 30 instructions (none of which have explicit arguments), that loses its Turing completeness as soon as any one of the 30 is taken away < 1120253364 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of the opposite of a Turing tarpit < 1120253448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1120253458 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it depends on how contrived you let it be < 1120253533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have 22 different 'nop' instructions, one instruction that is 'increment iff all 22 different nop instructions have already been executed at least once', and the other 7 brainfuck instructions < 1120253543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;s downright pathological, though < 1120253569 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i've been thinking of too many pathological languages lately, sorry ;) < 1120253576 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use decrement 255 times instead < 1120253589 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but you get the idea :) < 1120253590 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a new idea for a joke language < 1120253646 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nop instructions would clearly modify some sort of global state < 1120253662 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about ruling out instructions that do that? < 1120253695 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, even "where the memory pointer points" and "where the IP is" are global state, so a better definition is needed < 1120253735 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions behavior may not depend on the global state < 1120253765 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't brainfuck be in violation of that? < 1120253771 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and - depend on where the memory pointer is < 1120253781 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the behavior is always the same < 1120253785 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment/decrement by one < 1120253799 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can avoid that... you can rule out global state whose only affect is to allow other instructions to be executed, maybe < 1120253848 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... i mean rule out instruction that affect some state that only affects whether other instructions can be used < 1120253903 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i meant the first thing. anyway, it's pretty clear when it's being 'artifical' and when it's fairly natural, even without a strict definition... and natural would be far more interesting < 1120253903 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like it, yes < 1120254662 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to design a language where each instruction does an unreasonably large amount of stuff (like "increment register a and decrement register b and push contents of register c onto the stack and zero out register d and jump forward two intructions if d was non-zero before we zeroed it") < 1120254683 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right combination of those might require 30+ instructions just to cancel each other out to get something useful done :) < 1120254715 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be fun < 1120254716 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the trick is combining them and making sure _all_ instructions do lots of stuff (no fair having a few instructions that just do little 'cleanup' things; it'd be too easy) < 1120254758 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I think a 2D language with 22.5 degree turns would be fun < 1120254918 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 2d language where movement is based on gravity (with black holes, planets etc..) is fun too < 1120255189 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: how would that work? movement of a pc? < 1120255238 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungebob: well your pc has a weight.. i didn't say it is possible to programm in such a language.. < 1120255301 0 :fungebob!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying it is impossible? < 1120255314 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1120255330 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot: i like the current ruby quiz < 1120258241 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Banned from network" < 1120260542 0 :jimbo000!~BYUMUG@ool-43511512.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric