< 1122508874 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm safari should support xslt < 1122508900 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it does < 1122508905 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has problems with utf8 characters as xml tags < 1122508927 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that makes sense < 1122508936 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll change every xml tags to ascii < 1122508988 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it is currently impossible < 1122509161 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work now? < 1122509185 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1122509197 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1122509217 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's no utf8 character on xml file < 1122509250 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i need to delete every utf8 character even in xsl file, i'd rather find a parser to build an html file < 1122509257 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know why it doesn't work < 1122509270 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have no choice but safari? < 1122509283 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have camino (gecko based) it works there < 1122509284 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, firefox? < 1122509306 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox' interface laggs.. < 1122509448 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea about this < 1122509455 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are all UTF-8 < 1122509462 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and server is utf8 too < 1122509481 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be no error from encoding/decoding < 1122509507 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gs30ng.exca.net/udage/spec-en.xml < 1122509510 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gs30ng.exca.net/udage/spec-ko.xml < 1122509515 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both page doesn't work? < 1122509527 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1122509565 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1122509579 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be a bug of safari < 1122510263 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just view-source it < 1122510292 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i structurized it easy to read < 1122510349 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e should be noticed about this for his udage interpreter in c < 1122510358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"xsltproc" is good. < 1122510367 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser? < 1122510376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XSL style sheet parser thingie. < 1122510400 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i get one < 1122510418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it for debugging some xml+xslt things that were supposed to generate xhtml, since mozilla's xslt thing doesn't give too great error messages. < 1122510456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has a "xsltproc" package. < 1122510467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it _was_ xsltproc I used, hmm. < 1122510485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was. Part of Gnome's XSLT lib. < 1122510501 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1122510506 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea for a language < 1122510524 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all non-alphanumeric characters are ignored < 1122510547 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1122510549 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1122510569 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the angle of two keys on the german keyboard decides about the instruction < 1122510603 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language is character-independant because one of design goal was that < 1122510604 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm ü+öä#<,.- are allowed too < 1122510630 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my client the words are broken < 1122510642 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: encoding? < 1122510643 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: I saw that < 1122510667 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: yes < 1122510673 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how do you feel < 1122510680 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired :P < 1122510721 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: you still cannot read the spec page? < 1122510742 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: yep < 1122510752 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot view-source it? < 1122510756 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using safari i can't using camino i can < 1122510783 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing i did after trying safari was launching it in camino and reading it.. i just wanted to inform you that it doesn't work with safari < 1122510800 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want it work with safari < 1122510807 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1122510831 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll find out some ways to fix it < 1122510924 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you added inderection and a very big address space, interesting < 1122510930 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indirection < 1122510934 0 :ditto!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1122510944 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying OISC < 1122510952 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i intended turing completeness < 1122510964 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, very big address space < 1122510988 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now operations like this is possible with limited code: < 1122510991 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user inputs. < 1122510995 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer records. < 1122511001 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat until user inputs 0. < 1122511039 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not turing complete but it will be possible to represent any practical computation. < 1122511050 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not turing complete? < 1122511067 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1122511101 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i chose same method of OISC so it's turing complete < 1122511113 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because you cannot address an unlimited memory with a finite program (a finite program mean that the address length in every AAAxxxA instruction is finite as well) < 1122511131 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough for all practical purposes though < 1122511140 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd not worry about this. < 1122511147 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant that way < 1122511163 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unable for other languages too < 1122511183 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 1 variable cannot carry too big number or something < 1122511200 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in brainfuck the theoretically unbounded memory is the tape < 1122511205 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to address more than 2^(2^16) adressess .. 2^256 is enough for everything < 1122511215 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1122511226 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough for all practical purposes, as I said :) < 1122511229 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't enough energy in the universe for running ram modules that store 2^256 bytes < 1122511233 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1122511245 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely. < 1122511247 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 2^512 it's possible to adress every molecule in the universe... < 1122511256 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2^256 < 1122511279 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to keep in mind that the Turing machine is an entirely theoretic construct. < 1122511290 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that the number of atoms in the observable universe is 10^80 < 1122511293 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is greater than 2^64 < 1122511308 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I'm wrong, disregard that < 1122511334 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a language to be turing complete means that if it's run on idealized hardware (that supports arbritrary sized integers or infinite memory) you can simulate any turing machine on it. < 1122511351 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue, but 2^256 is close to that :) < 1122511354 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1122511379 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1122511386 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i understand what int-e is talking < 1122511391 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, if a language is turing-complete that means you can simulate any turing machine on it. < 1122511399 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware never ever comes into consideration. < 1122511412 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^(2^# of unicode chars)) should be enough for everything < 1122511414 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a limited source code can only use a limited memory space < 1122511422 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: wrong < 1122511426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: why? < 1122511432 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in my lang < 1122511437 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1122511439 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1122511444 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: the hardware comes in at the point where I want to give the semantics of the language < 1122511445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your language is not turing-complete < 1122511450 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes < 1122511457 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have bignums or something < 1122511477 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can do anything that turing machine can do, currently < 1122511501 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: wrong you can do anything that real machines can do < 1122511501 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's some way to cram infinite amount of data into a single memory cell, you could have TC < 1122511507 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'hardware' of a brainfuck program is an infinte tape and a pointer to the tape. they're both theoretical entities, idealized from real hardware. < 1122511547 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to clarify what I meant by 'hardware'. < 1122511554 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody have an idea to make this lang TC? < 1122511588 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you copy oisc anyhow? < 1122511591 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exists < 1122511628 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1122511630 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of idea? < 1122511634 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use relative addressing, relative to the last address used < 1122511652 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's similar to a tape and you need a way to specify negative offsets < 1122511669 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative addressing < 1122511677 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will be possible to simulate brainfuck then and your language would be turing complete. < 1122511694 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'm gonna change all memory cells to stack < 1122511701 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is not good < 1122511709 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not stacks < 1122511722 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative addressing is good < 1122511733 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually get the idea < 1122511738 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me more about that < 1122511800 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it's possible to use an unbounded number format (they exist. 0 is represented as 1, and other numbers are represented as 1) and indirect addressing.
< 1122511832 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1122511837 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is represented as 0 :) < 1122511842 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's number of bits-1 < 1122511849 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic idea is exactly that. < 1122511880 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1122511884 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know the number of bits of the number of bits? < 1122511886 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, 1 would be 1 0 1, 2 would be 1 101 10, 3 1 101 11, 4 1 110110 100, etc. < 1122511899 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: recursively apply the construction < 1122511922 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how do you know when to stop? :) < 1122511935 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I find a 0 < 1122511947 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1122511976 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2 would be 1 1 10 0 ? < 1122511977 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse = if getbit=0 then 0 else bits=parse; num=get_n_bits(bits) < 1122512029 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not understand < 1122512083 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me correctly specify the number (and optimize some): 0 is 0. an n-bit number <1a[1]a[2]a[3]...a[n]> is represented as 1 followed by the representation of n, followed by a[1]a[2]...a[n]. < 1122512089 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That meeting drug on for WAY too damn long >:( < 1122512125 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means: 0 is 0. 1 is a 1-bit number, encoded as 1 , that is 10. < 1122512155 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is a 2-bit number (10), and represented as 1 0, that is 1100 < 1122512163 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 is 1101 < 1122512184 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is too complicated. I prefer unary :) < 1122512189 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 is a 3-bit number (100) and represented as 1 <2> 00, that is 110000 < 1122512194 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary works, too < 1122512213 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: Could you give me a link to your 2L interpreter so I can debug? < 1122512224 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another easy way is to use 10 for 0, 11 for 1 and 00 for a stop symbol. < 1122512232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this format can't even handle transfinite numbers :) < 1122512239 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even go ternary with this approach ;) < 1122512246 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why 4 is represented as something different < 1122512258 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transfinite numbers are not necessary to achieve turing completeness < 1122512278 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither are big ones < 1122512287 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very little is needed for TC :) < 1122512290 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1122512310 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an infinity somewhere < 1122512323 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the idea for implementing an infinite memory is to address each cell individually, you need big numbers. < 1122512328 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want turing himself here < 1122512338 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Turing < 1122512348 0 :Turing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! < 1122512361 0 :Turing!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR < 1122512365 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1122512369 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's gone again < 1122512386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh :P < 1122512397 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mourns
< 1122512440 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be another way to access a memory cell... < 1122512469 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both relative addressing and unbounded addressing work < 1122512472 0 :Aardwolf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1122512486 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what the hell is relative addressing < 1122512520 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than saying I want memory address 0x5 you say I want memory address here+0x1. That is, all addresses are based on the current location. < 1122512538 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1122512544 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...got it < 1122512566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "here" could be the code pointer, or some memory pointer like in brainfuck < 1122512596 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was something i have thought! why didn't i re-get that? < 1122512632 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, lemme think ... would it be Turing-complete if it was the code pointer? You still couldn't access the entire bounds of memory from any location, and hence wouldn't have infinite storage space ... < 1122512632 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let me think about this idea more... < 1122512661 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: yes I think so, too < 1122512677 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: not if code is in your memory, you can modify it, and you have GOTO < 1122512688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. like on all computers) < 1122512700 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, not all computers < 1122512707 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh yes, being able to modify it does rectify that, doesn't it ... < 1122512707 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's von Neumann computers only. < 1122512710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.befunge.org/~fis/test_ppc_gnuWlinux.s < 1122512730 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hard to make decision. current spec is already enough do everything that we can currently do. < 1122512746 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are computers with separated code and data memory. granted, the only example I can think of are DSPs. < 1122512749 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: turing-completeness is not that important, really. < 1122512759 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey now jix, that's a bright ray o' light 8-D < 1122512764 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i'm realizing that < 1122512792 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual good-enough is "Turing-complete with the exception of finite storage space" < 1122512810 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So long as that finite space is enough to actually do anything) < 1122512835 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMETANA also bounds memory size by code size < 1122512880 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need something to eat now < 1122512887 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody give me < 1122512890 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Udage with memory retargeting is good enough < 1122512900 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as it is right now) < 1122512903 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives Gs30ng poison^H^H^H^H^H^H candy.
< 1122512919 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!google ^H < 1122512924 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Udage without the memory retargeting operation felt very much like Smetana and thus insufficient. < 1122512937 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for me) < 1122512955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but smetana is cool :( < 1122512963 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my point of view < 1122512967 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: Olde UNIX joke - if yoshell doesn't allow you to delete, backspace becomes ^H < 1122512975 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/yoshell/your shell/ < 1122512995 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a machine should do this: < 1122513009 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user inputs, computer records, repead until user inputs 0 < 1122513010 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: and if it does, ^H becomes backspace < 1122513014 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a machine should not run esolangs for any serious work :) < 1122513029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Indeed. < 1122513041 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my point of view it is perfect < 1122513045 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I agree. Perl included. < 1122513049 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... Gs30ng complete? < 1122513054 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and then do what with its input? < 1122513065 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what input < 1122513069 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is a neat write-only language if you need to do some string or text processing. < 1122513071 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1122513092 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is not considered an esoteric language for purely historical reasons < 1122513094 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I much prefer Python < 1122513098 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng machine input or Udage input? < 1122513124 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you started to descibe a computer that takes some input until the user inputs 0 < 1122513129 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: YOU want to debug MY 2L interpreter?! < 1122513135 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i did < 1122513137 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just want to do that, you need no more than a finite state machine < 1122513148 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smetana can do that < 1122513150 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm aware of it too < 1122513155 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or could if it supported input ;) < 1122513162 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait < 1122513166 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Udage can't do that < 1122513175 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite input and recording all of them < 1122513188 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you record it? < 1122513198 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is gs30ng machine < 1122513201 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the following problem: < 1122513209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read input until EOF. < 1122513212 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Print input backwards. < 1122513230 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that requires infinite storage < 1122513242 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1122513255 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it can be done on a stack machine that isn't turing complete < 1122513285 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: Umm ... yes? < 1122513293 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative addressing... i can't find proper method to do it < 1122513304 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merely because my entry on esolangs.org was borked, so I feel responsible. < 1122513312 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if AAAxxxA then move the pointer xxx cells left? < 1122513342 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1122513347 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and retarget AAA to that location < 1122513353 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the switch A < 1122513367 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or right? how can i decide the way? before that, does it need xxx cells? < 1122513370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs with addressing are boring :) < 1122513374 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki page was never intended to be a spec by the way, it also doesn't fully explain +-turning. < 1122513375 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much like real assembly < 1122513380 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you should do AAAdxxxA where d specifies the direction < 1122513396 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just to AAAdx < 1122513417 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do AAAd and specify that the offset is always 1 < 1122513417 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d decides the direction and x decides the cells to move < 1122513435 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that feels very brainfuck-ish < 1122513448 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger offsets make it less brainfuckish. < 1122513448 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what about AAAA operation < 1122513462 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it isn't useless < 1122513480 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1122513484 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody can make a source code like AAAA < 1122513493 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is I/O operation < 1122513504 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's something i really don't want to be there in my lang < 1122513533 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAA must be a useless operation to be some another operation < 1122513547 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my design goal of the lang < 1122513589 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well AAAA can be represented as BBBA with that semantics ... < 1122513599 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, okay, hang on < 1122513647 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am sending through DCC, can you receive those? < 1122513657 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows 8-D < 1122513665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, I'm behind a firewall. < 1122513684 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually, I would look at the bit about turning I just added to the 2L wiki page. It's becoming more like a spec every minute :P < 1122513688 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculously hot here in Korean < 1122513690 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1122513693 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Korean/Korea < 1122513705 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't explain how the turn worked, and the intuitive way is not the correct way. < 1122513720 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/junk/2l.c < 1122513730 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend wonders < 1122513734 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/junk/a.2l <-- my A program that works if you change the starting direction in the interpreter to RIGHT < 1122513740 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is befunge from the word fungi? < 1122513767 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means mushroom or something like that? < 1122513792 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the turns are right anyway, that's good since I didn't explain them :P < 1122513799 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend designed a fungeoid named Versert < 1122513801 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungi does not mean mushroom, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus < 1122513812 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh whatever < 1122513820 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it from fungi? < 1122513823 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mushroom would be an example of a fungus < 1122513835 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungi is plural: two or more of the thing called a "fungus" < 1122513852 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i said mushroom "or something like that" < 1122513923 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway befunge is named after it, right? or is it not clear? < 1122513930 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know < 1122513957 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1122513967 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I remember reading something about how "the turn is not a simple turn" because if it were, some loops would not be possible < 1122513969 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine made a fungeoid < 1122513979 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i gave him the name versert < 1122513982 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archway2 works the same way < 1122514001 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beoseot means a mushroom in Korean < 1122514046 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1122514054 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versert is named after it, so i wonder if befunge is really from fungi or not < 1122514068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask cpressey < 1122514080 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why befunge is called that? < 1122514084 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't matter that much wheter befunge is or isn't < 1122514095 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops there's cpressey here < 1122514102 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1122514119 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's named after John Funge, AI pioneer: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/~funge/ < 1122514129 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1122514141 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :john mushroom doesn't make any sense < 1122514145 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, though < 1122514198 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible weather < 1122514202 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raining, but hot < 1122514219 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot water is falling < 1122514237 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is this possible? < 1122514305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic < 1122514348 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did it, lament < 1122514364 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be air friction < 1122514364 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1122514368 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hot Rain. what an idea < 1122514412 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative addressing idea is good but too brainfuck-ish < 1122514434 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably just means that the humidity is very high so the water does not evaporate, which means it has no cooling effect < 1122514460 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right < 1122514477 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Korean summer is with really high humidity < 1122514498 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot and humid summer < 1122514503 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst < 1122514510 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suggests 'has' in place of 'is with'
< 1122514522 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1122514528 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes more sense < 1122514589 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 'comes with' which sounds good to me, too. < 1122514658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: read the wiki entry < 1122514658 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since turing completeness is not that important currently with my lang, i'll reserve it for someday < 1122514684 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTFM thing < 1122514792 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "Befunge" started life as a typographical error for the word "before", typed by Curtis Coleman at 4AM on a BBS chat system. < 1122514795 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1122514906 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm not sure if my unbounded pointers stored in memory idea really makes the beast Turing complete. I can only address a finite memory directly, to address more I need to introduce a level of indirection. In fact, I need an unbounded level of indirection to address an unbounded memory and I can't convince myself right now that this is possible with a finite program. A linked list representation between the indirection pointers may wor < 1122514907 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, though. < 1122514958 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly food for thought < 1122515147 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ah that should have been targeted for lament. < 1122515153 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err at < 1122515185 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should conversation be esoteric too? < 1122515278 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know that.
< 1122515356 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax highlighting of this lang would be easy < 1122515415 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i thought about 'udage list' concepts or something < 1122515419 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it TC < 1122515530 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1122515539 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make an operation in an operation < 1122515554 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, AAA starts, then A concludes < 1122515569 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between them all kind of udages can come < 1122515615 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operation could come < 1122515671 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: what happened to XUML? < 1122515687 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, between AAA and A, a loop operation could come < 1122515733 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: never completed it because there was a bug in the converter or interpreter or even concept that i couldn't find < 1122515774 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when a loop operation comes, each values that made by loop is stored as a value of that 2^16 thing < 1122515775 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: that sucks < 1122515783 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: ever plan to come back to it, or release what you have? < 1122515788 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1122515792 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@# < 1122515799 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nothing works as it should < 1122515824 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can make it to indicate no. infinite memory cell < 1122515837 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: with regard to 2L, when you say "The action is undefined when the pointer goes over the right or bottom edge", is this after expanding each line rightwards to make the code area rectangular? < 1122515844 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: or is no extending of lines done? < 1122515845 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is interesting < 1122515960 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so operation can be between AAA and A < 1122515967 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: my a.2l works in my fixed 2L interpreter provided you replace the * in the top left corner with a nop < 1122515974 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: does it work in your interpreter if you do that? < 1122515975 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if operation changes some value < 1122515985 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then original values are stored first < 1122515999 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then modified values are stored right next to it < 1122516027 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, what do you think about this < 1122516052 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with this Udage is TC, also < 1122516133 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what you're trying to do. what would AAABCA do? < 1122516154 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing it have been doing < 1122516197 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a code like this: FAAAFBCCDEFA < 1122516213 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCDEF is identified as an operation < 1122516268 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FB isn't) < 1122516288 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, it's waiting for a character for some reason < 1122516290 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will jump to backward F again and again < 1122516297 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: your helloworld.2l changes TL1 when TL0 is 0 < 1122516314 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1122516319 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mistake < 1122516336 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code should be like FDEAAAFBCDEFA < 1122516342 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D and E should be 1 < 1122516399 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: your program works, it's just that it prompts me for a character, prints it 8 times, prints a bunch of newlines, prompts me for a character again, prints it 11 times along with a bunch more newlines, prompts me for a character again, prints that 11 times, then ends < 1122516405 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1122516408 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistake again < 1122516415 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FDEAAAFBCCDEFA < 1122516429 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i read about udage? < 1122516440 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see wiki < 1122516446 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's url < 1122516449 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: also it ends by going off the bottom (cell 35, 146 is executed last), so it will invoke undefined behavior in a conformant implementation < 1122516465 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://gs30ng.exca.net/udage/spec-en.xml < 1122516474 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it jumps again and again, A will indicate no. 10(because of F and B)0000000000000000000000...(C gets 0 endlessly) < 1122516512 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: trace of execution of < 1122516524 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: HelloWorld.2l is at http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/junk/errors.txt < 1122516644 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I got that by running this and redirecting stderr: http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/junk/2ldebug.c < 1122516653 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gs30ng: Udage is a bounded-storage machine; see http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Bounded-storage_machine (just like C, apparently) < 1122516677 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1122516683 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is big enough, i think < 1122516698 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too < 1122516730 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Donate a manual typewriter to ME for your only hope for a future!" < 1122516752 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be some attempts to make this lang TC < 1122516756 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, Udageoid? < 1122516792 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not need to be TC; beware of the Turing tar-pit in which everything is possible but nothing of interest is easy. < 1122516793 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right now i don't feel any necessity to change the spec < 1122516815 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the Turing tarpit < 1122516828 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of Udage design goal was that < 1122516898 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with Udage is that absolute addressing makes it impossible < 1122516919 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i gave up that because all good turing tarpits are already there < 1122516923 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: right < 1122517004 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any wiki space for sample Udage codes? < 1122517029 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's outside the wiki itself, see http://www.esolangs.org/files/ < 1122517048 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: but still you can handle more than 2^256 bits < 1122517073 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's really hard to do so :( < 1122517092 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing completeness requires an unbounded tape, i.e. a tape with no upper limit at all < 1122517116 0 :Wrrrtbt!~noone@td9091a47.pool.terralink.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1122517125 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1122517131 0 :Wrrrtbt!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :int-e < 1122517246 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1122517264 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1122517437 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1122517442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come there's no Trigger implementation? < 1122517449 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is ;) < 1122517484 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~bf3/trigger.c (well, it has this limitation on 1MB program size but it should do for some experiments) < 1122517532 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should make an interpreter of Udage by myself < 1122517556 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds ridiculous that i can design a lang but cannot make an interpreter for it < 1122517785 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me warn you that the addition of retargeting has made that task nontrivial, because your memory can be sparse, that is, it's trivial to write a program that accesses just a few memory cells that are, say, 2^128 locations away from each other. < 1122517864 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it dangerous? < 1122517874 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1122517914 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard to handle this gracefully instead of just failing to execute such a program. < 1122517944 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for easy coding we can use cells like < 1122517953 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 2, 4, 8, 16, ... < 1122517995 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cells like 3, 5, 6, 7 are empty forever < 1122517996 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1122518058 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok int-e, question again < 1122518067 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i make AAA operation like this: < 1122518111 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAd, if d is 0 then A indicates the cell (cur+1) and if d is 1 then A indicates the cell (cur-1) < 1122518133 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Udage is TC? < 1122518205 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye!" < 1122518206 0 :int-e!~noone@td9091a47.pool.terralink.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1122518212 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'nite < 1122518218 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr. my network is flaky, stupid ISP :( < 1122518223 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1122518232 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix is up early (like me) < 1122518236 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, then did you saw my question? < 1122518257 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, last I saw was [03:33:57] for easy coding we can use cells like < 1122518260 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at here it's 10 o'clock AM < 1122518269 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:33:29] for easy coding we can use cells like < 1122518269 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:33:38] 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, ... < 1122518269 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:34:20] and cells like 3, 5, 6, 7 are empty forever < 1122518269 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:34:21] :( < 1122518269 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:35:22] ok int-e, question again < 1122518269 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:35:32] if i make AAA operation like this: < 1122518271 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:36:16] AAAd, if d is 0 then A indicates the cell (cur+1) and if d is 1 then A indicates the cell (cur-1) < 1122518274 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10:36:37] then Udage is TC? < 1122518311 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if AAAd also changes cur (to cur+1 or cur-1), then yes. if it doesn't change cur, then no < 1122518350 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cur is it's own cur < 1122518353 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A's own cur < 1122518383 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A indicates 1, and AAAd, if d is 0, now A indicates 2 < 1122518386 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A indicates 2, and AAAd, if d is 0, now A indicates 3 < 1122518396 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1122518410 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another possibility. < 1122518425 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you have a tape and 65536 independent pointers to it < 1122518444 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it turing complete as well. < 1122518458 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i don't like tapes < 1122518479 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and int-e, then what was your plan < 1122518494 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you supposed only one pointer? < 1122518520 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually like your idea better because it's less like brainfuck < 1122518536 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1122518536 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks < 1122518645 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if a udage points 0 (itself) and i do (cur-1) < 1122518664 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i suppose no. negative memory cells? < 1122518679 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can i do something different? < 1122519062 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, does this lang deserves to be on topic of this channel? < 1122519062 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's up to you < 1122519086 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll make it to choose random memory cell < 1122519103 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait. the range is infinite. it's impossible < 1122519106 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an esoteric programming languages channel, of course it's on topic < 1122519111 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :na, it's possible < 1122519121 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there just isn't a uniform distribution < 1122519148 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could choose memory cell 0 with probability 1/2, 1 with 1/4, 2 with 1/8 and so on - to give an example. < 1122519178 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1122519208 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make it to choose random udage and have same indication value < 1122519263 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the range is finite and uniform distribution is possible < 1122519274 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins work on egobch.
< 1122519287 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..still 0 has priority in many case < 1122519350 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there could be no. negative memory cells but they are not necessary.... < 1122519378 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can add something really advances all things... < 1122519528 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad languages working with bits are such a pain to actually write programs in < 1122519594 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true but i love bits < 1122519821 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even kayak, which had such an awesome concept, lies unused < 1122519860 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhheeehhh......... < 1122520377 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks.
< 1122520424 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't find the way to rationalize the use of AAAA operation when AAA operations takes only 1 operand.
< 1122520446 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122520880 0 :Gs30ng!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"for foods" < 1122520943 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I did a merge sort in Kayak once < 1122521505 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~bf3/sort3.kayak < 1122521528 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1122521870 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye!" < 1122522487 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I just wrote a program that outputs 'a' in BitChanger 8-D < 1122522501 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More importantly, I wrote a bitchanger interpreter :P < 1122523402 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel like writing a program in an esolang that violates US patent #4,872,009? < 1122523414 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see http://www.faqs.org/faqs/compression-faq/part1/section-7.html) < 1122523800 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either my BitChanger interpreter is screwy, or the Brainfuck->Bitchanger stuff on the wiki is wrong >_< < 1122524825 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Donate a manual typewriter to ME for your only hope for a future!" < 1122524990 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122525001 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: "If it was going right you couldn't turn away from the edge." is not true, look at a.2l < 1122525015 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: also, look at my comments on HelloWorld.2l earlier < 1122525020 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1122525024 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, y------. < 1122525026 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1122526586 0 :BigZaphod!~BigZaphod@dyvl-01-0198.dsl.iowatelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122527562 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: I'm apparently the worst spec-writer ever. < 1122527579 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: My implementation had up as < and down as > < 1122530629 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122530643 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, I demand that you change your implementation and your hello world program so I don't have to do anything < 1122530655 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good evening < 1122530656 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1122530666 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, why does graue do that XD < 1122530678 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, that's not even a totally unreasonable request XD < 1122530780 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122530789 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, the link to the fyb interpreter at www.befunge.org/fyb/fyb/ is broken < 1122530790 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1122530973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out. < 1122532789 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1122534116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, I just love the morning sunshine when I have no curtains at all in the bedroom. (Read: agghhh the sunlight noo I'm burning.) < 1122534829 0 :tokigun!~chatzilla@219.248.202.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1122535297 0 :BigZaphod!~BigZaphod@66.6.34.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1122535733 0 :klutzy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Oops I closed program by mistake" < 1122537599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1122537600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1122538270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1122538430 0 :lament!~lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122538741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1122539356 0 :lament!~lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122554509 0 :Fedo1a!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :reffina < 1122554842 0 :reffina!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :yrz\werk < 1122555745 0 :jix!jix@p5489E9BC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122556145 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1122556171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELO < 1122557033 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1122560772 0 :Aardwolf!~neusring@dD576527E.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1122560809 0 :int-e!warlock-27@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122561009 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1122561049 0 :Aardwolf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good afternoon < 1122562290 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client exiting" < 1122562293 0 :int-e!warlock-27@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122566812 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1122566813 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1122566884 0 :cpressey!nobody@d154-20-76-195.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122567759 0 :int-e!warlock-27@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122567773 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1122568110 0 :int-e!warlock-27@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122568218 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1122568233 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1122568280 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1122568345 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, cmeme is back. < 1122568352 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Felt like logging again, cmeme? :) < 1122568697 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1122568710 0 :int-e!warlock-27@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122570742 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all, anyone entering the 2k game compo should check out the rules again as they have changed. < 1122570834 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :url? < 1122571651 0 :BigZaphod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1122572073 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: http://www.geocities.com/dunric/advcomp.html < 1122572219 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wrote the BF->BitChanger conversions on the wiki? < 1122573862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^}: i don't see what's changed? < 1122573870 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: probably calamari < 1122574232 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there might be something wrong with the insanely complex [. < 1122574238 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or my BChI) < 1122574268 0 :BigZaphod!~BigZaphod@198.45.23.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1122574506 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: where's that conversion? < 1122575193 0 :Aardwolf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1122575512 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, found it. < 1122576112 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that [ implementation smells fishy < 1122576614 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should publish EgoBCh without EgoBF2BCh < 1122577704 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.150.2.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122577709 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1122577744 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client exiting" < 1122577799 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, is that your [ in the BF->BitChanger conversion chart on the wiki? < 1122577865 0 :int-e!warlock-28@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122577890 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I think I write the conversions, yeah.. but I had no interpreter to tets them with < 1122577899 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they messed up? < 1122577905 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything works except for [ < 1122577918 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on that < 1122577926 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So overall, good job, but egobf2bch doesn't work ;) < 1122577935 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1122577948 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen better versions of [ online anyhow < 1122578012 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e quite nearly got one, but it turned into if. < 1122578041 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, because translating ] into ] cannot work < 1122578075 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. not quite sure what I was thinking with that < 1122578087 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait.. yeah < 1122578104 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]=] should be fine.. < 1122578114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes [ more complicated < 1122578150 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I use the ] = jmp.. rather that some impl that do a conditional at most ends < 1122578164 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both ends < 1122578184 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah.. can't form coherent sentences this morning, sorry < 1122578193 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still jumps to the wrong point with your code ;) < 1122578224 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, I wouldn't doubt it < 1122578240 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can put it on the debugger and fix it < 1122578330 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha.. that code scares me, and I wrote it! :( < 1122578347 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too difficult < 1122578349 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1122578431 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can see how to shorten it quite a bit. but let me get that version to work first. < 1122578981 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the moment you've all been waiting for ... < 1122578988 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first implementation of BitChanger ... < 1122578999 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that lets us switch the category ... < 1122579007 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/egobch-0.1.tar.bz2 < 1122579027 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally unoptimizing btw. < 1122579102 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: Could you add that to the files archive at some point? Thanks :) < 1122579222 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, updated the wiki (BF_instruction_minimalization) < 1122579248 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for that short version. < 1122579503 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1122581105 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've added that short version to the wiki. < 1122581130 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kipple < 1122581146 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! < 1122581149 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests it :)
< 1122581268 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something seems wrong < 1122581283 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't enter the loop < 1122581291 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the cell=5 (101) < 1122581319 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me .. let me compare the code I put into the wiki with the one I actually use < 1122581412 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the one I'm testing @[>>>>>>>>@[<@]>[>]<<<<<<<<<[@]>>>>>>>>[<]@>[@>]<<<<<<<<<@[@ < 1122581500 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1122581506 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is correct < 1122581536 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologize, it was my error < 1122581548 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was running in 8-bit mode < 1122581549 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a typo in the bitchanger ] code - missing the first character < 1122581641 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed, too < 1122582048 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone remember the name of the bf-like language that uses ; ? < 1122582084 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha.. boolF... < 1122582333 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any reason to keep the large versions? gonna scrap those < 1122582404 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care < 1122582479 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1122582487 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks.. cool stuff :) < 1122585352 0 :calamari_!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.216.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122585354 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1122585963 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1122585973 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's < 1122586244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION REciprocates.
< 1122586248 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1122586279 0 :int-e!~noone@p54B3EB09.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1122586293 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (msg[0] == 'R' && msg[1] == 'E') exit(1); < 1122586335 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's = regards :) < 1122586351 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1122586352 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, re-hello < 1122586354 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1122586368 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "hello again" :) < 1122586408 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was REciprocating your REgards. < 1122586414 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1122589645 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So jix, are you going to update those benchmarks at any point? < 1122589654 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or have you already and I just haven't seen the new results) < 1122591480 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to update them tomorrow < 1122592668 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahahahaha ... BWAHAHAHAHA ... GAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1122592710 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're arranged by compile + run time rather than just run time, I look forward to seeing egobfc2m in slot #1 :) < 1122592768 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF debugger 1.30 released.. http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf < 1122592789 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunch of new features, bugfixes, added 1-bit and EOF modes < 1122592795 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: they are arranged by runtime < 1122593154 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, then egobfc2m will be a bit below some compilers. < 1122593383 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :below bf2a? < 1122593401 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, let's give it a shot. One sec. < 1122593432 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't sort by compiletime + run time because some compilers depend on external tools like gcc < 1122594010 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that gcc runtime is still significant, even if it may change between gcc versions or different CCs. Wouldn't it be fair so long as you used the same compilation suite across compilers? < 1122594042 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I can't find bf2a ... < 1122594101 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/brainfuck/bf2a.rb should work < 1122594114 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generates c file < 1122594225 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you want to use a program like, say, "Let's take a look at some primes" or "What was the complete lyrics of 99 bottles of beer, again?", you usually keep compiled versions of the programs, so the compilation time should not be taken into account < 1122594330 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The purpose though is to benchmark the compiler. Part of that benchmarking is the speed of compiled programs, but we're not benchmarking the speed of compiled programs, we're benchmarking compilers. < 1122594392 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case a BF frontend for gcc would be the proper test IMO < 1122594409 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but than you can't compare interpreters with compilers < 1122594545 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, GregorR, I was just kidding; I like the idea of having a kind-of-JIT for BF < 1122594634 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a C (or similar language) compiler which did something alike, what was the name? < 1122594749 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf2a compiled binaries are slightly faster, but with compilation time it loses. < 1122594764 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, TCC was it by Fabrice Bellard, http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/ < 1122594792 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, TCC = excellent < 1122594804 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCCBOOT = awesome for stupid Gentoo users :P < 1122594811 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: it's because gcc is slow < 1122594825 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Yes, yes it is >:) < 1122594839 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to combine my optimizations with your jit-a-like interpreter < 1122594871 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby BF->C optimizations ported to a C BF->machine code compiler. < 1122594877 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds sort of like dying. < 1122594880 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1122594921 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a ruby BF->Intermediate-language-suitable-for-direct-compiling and a Intemediata-language->C converter < 1122594956 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1122594965 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q: what about using TCC for the test? < 1122594976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the only optimizations I've got are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>>>>>>> ++++++++++-------+++ and [-] < 1122595017 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no [--------->+<] *g*? < 1122595032 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in egobfc2m < 1122595050 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using my ultra-cool^^ lookuptables for that kind of loops < 1122595136 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll make the worlds slowest-without-just-cheating interpreter. < 1122595178 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF->intermediate language BitChanger->interpreted intermediate language->C->gcc->run