←2005-07-28 2005-07-29 2005-07-30→ ↑2005 ↑all
00:00:04 <GregorR> mandelbrot.b: 1 hr 25 min 33.27 sec
00:00:10 <GregorR> :P
00:04:10 <int-e> wee
00:04:15 <int-e> well at least it works :)
00:04:57 <GregorR> Oh, and I would represent bits as uint64_t's.
00:05:11 <jix> no use gmp's bignums
00:05:29 <jix> and use dynamic linking (for gmp)
00:06:12 <int-e> hmm, they are hard to use, I prefer gmpxx and their mpz_class
00:06:14 <GregorR> Runtime dynamic linking.
00:06:22 <jix> ohohoh! use gmp'floats
00:06:45 <jix> with 1 bit sign, 100 bit exponent and 200bit value
00:06:49 <int-e> well, use Javas bignum through JNI ... err. sorry.
00:06:56 <pgimeno> I find mpz's quite comfortable though
00:07:09 <jix> use ruby!
00:07:20 <jix> the overhead for a method call is big
00:07:24 <int-e> (it's called BigInteger and they implement it completely in Java.)
00:07:26 <GregorR> Awesome.
00:07:40 <pgimeno> I've been thinking about writing a BF interpreter with unlimited cell size
00:07:51 <jix> because ruby has to lookup the + method of Integer with every call because one can redefine the + method of Integer
00:07:55 <GregorR> pgimeno: Choose-at-runtime or bignum?
00:08:02 <pgimeno> bignum
00:08:38 <int-e> jix: they don't implement any cache and invalidate scheme there?
00:08:58 <jix> int-e: dunno.. ruby is fast enough for many things
00:09:14 <GregorR> (I don't know ruby, so work with me for this joke:)
00:09:23 <GregorR> int operator+(int a, int b) return a + b;
00:10:32 <int-e> hmm. that's an infinite loop if your compiler does tail call elimination ...
00:11:06 <int-e> or that's how I'd read it
00:11:15 <int-e> I'm not sure what language that is.
00:13:57 <{^Raven^}> jix: nice proggy
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00:22:29 <GregorR> int-e: Yeah, and it's pseudo-C++ish, though proper C++ would look like so:
00:22:47 <GregorR> int operator+(int b) { return val + b.val; }
00:22:50 <GregorR> Or somesuch.
00:27:09 <int-e> nah. int operator+(int a, int b) { return a+b; } ... if that were possible.
00:27:40 <int-e> foo.cc:1: error: `int operator+(int, int)' must have an argument of class or
00:27:40 <int-e> enumerated type
00:27:41 <int-e> ;)
00:28:13 <int-e> (that is, a user defined type must be used in overloaded operators)
00:29:15 <int-e> as an argument. but there's no requirement to make the overloaded operator a member of a class.
00:29:42 <int-e> grrr. http://www.math.umd.edu/%7Edcarrera/ruby/0.3/chp_02/tips.html
00:30:09 <int-e> even more important than commenting your code is that the comments are actually correct.
00:30:42 <int-e> And the code *actually* finds the smallest power of 2 larger or equal to 10_000.
00:38:56 <int-e> Ruby is an interesting mix, it borrows features from Perl, a bit Pascal, and SmallTalk ...
00:39:16 <int-e> and probably others but these I recognized.
00:45:24 <jix> ruby is cool
00:46:00 <GregorR> Yes, of course you can't override int XD
00:50:10 <GregorR> I haven't overloaded operators in C++ in a while, didn't remember quite what it looked like *shrugs*
00:50:10 <int-e> struct t { };
00:50:10 <int-e> t operator+(t a, t b) { return a+b; }
00:50:10 <int-e> main() { t a, b; a+b; }
00:50:13 <int-e> is valid :)
00:50:34 <GregorR> struct == class in C++
00:50:40 <int-e> I know
00:51:00 <GregorR> What would that return :P
00:51:02 <int-e> and the program produces a stack overflow, as expected.
00:51:07 <GregorR> Of course.
00:51:34 <GregorR> So + = the stack overflow operator.
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01:06:40 <int-e> bye
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01:45:41 <int-e> re
01:49:24 <graue> re
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02:08:51 <calamari> hi
02:24:55 <graue> good day calamari
02:25:01 <graue> bfdebug was updated recently, you say?
02:25:05 <graue> what's new with this version?
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02:31:14 <calamari> graue: a few things, about to release 1.40 too, added a couple more features
02:31:34 <calamari> I can paste the changelogs to you in private message if you'd like
02:35:28 <calamari> okay, 1.40 is up
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02:37:59 <calamari> graue: the main highlights: can save output to file, eof choices, 1-bit cell support, including }@* instructions, "block comments", fast run, interactive input, input echo
02:38:17 <calamari> and bugfixes :)
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02:51:51 <GregorR> graue: Would you mind adding EgoBCh to the files archive? ( http://www.codu.org/egobch-0.1.tar.bz2 )
02:52:43 <GregorR> Hmm, and also, 0.7.1 was a development release, probably shouldn't be in the archive.
02:53:49 <graue> GregorR: I did
02:54:06 <GregorR> graue: There doesn't seem to be a bitchanger directory ...
02:54:24 <GregorR> Oh, there it is.
02:54:27 <GregorR> Refresh, Gregor.
02:54:36 <GregorR> Coolio, thanks.
02:55:25 <graue> http://www.esolangs.org/svn/esofiles/ updates sooner (or use the actual svn repository)
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11:41:48 <puzzlet> oh, not that + and - signs again
12:12:39 <int-e> puzzlet: you don't like brainfuck?
12:12:53 <puzzlet> no, it's about IRC proxy
12:13:19 <puzzlet> when anyone other than me talks, + and - signs appear
12:13:23 <puzzlet> like <int-e> +puzzlet: you don't like brainfuck?
12:13:39 <puzzlet> <somebody> -<CTCP>ACTION blah
12:13:57 <int-e> oh. that's nasty, right, it destroys CTCP messages.
12:38:39 <tokigun> int-e: if there is "\x01...\x01" block, it will be CTCP message always. + and - sign doesn't affect the message.
12:40:47 <puzzlet> tokigun, CTCP me
12:41:00 <tokigun> hmm
12:41:04 <int-e> tokigun: oops. thank you for the correction
12:41:14 * tokigun blahblah
12:41:19 <puzzlet> <tokigun> +<CTCP>ACTION blahblah<CTCP>
12:41:24 <tokigun> int-e: :)
12:41:32 <tokigun> puzzlet: wait a moment...
12:42:08 <puzzlet> yeah, CTCP woks fine
12:42:14 <tokigun> :S
12:42:35 <puzzlet> <tokigun> +:S
12:42:41 <puzzlet> emoticons don't work
12:42:48 <tokigun> hmm
12:42:58 <int-e> :-)
12:42:59 <int-e> :-(
12:43:01 <int-e> ;)
12:44:31 <tokigun> puzzlet: are you using irssi proxy?
12:45:08 <puzzlet> yes
12:45:47 <tokigun> both freenode and hanirc?
12:46:07 <puzzlet> yes
12:46:27 <tokigun> then... hanirc proxy works well?
12:46:48 <puzzlet> yes
12:46:55 <tokigun> ... :S
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13:12:12 <Gs30ng> somebody decided to make an Udage interpreter in Befunge
13:12:52 <Gs30ng> s/an/a (Udage: ju-)
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14:04:08 <grimace_> impressive
14:05:48 <jix> moin
14:07:28 <mtve> Gs30ng: sorry, i missed it. any url?
14:15:19 <Gs30ng> mtve: tokigun told me to do that, and currently nothing's unveiled.
14:15:30 <mtve> ah :)
14:17:32 <puzzlet> actually, tokigun told him *tokigun* is going to do that
14:18:07 <tokigun> eh?
14:24:36 <Gs30ng> oops
14:24:39 <Gs30ng> stupid mistake
14:25:27 <Gs30ng> ok i don't even heard about befunge
14:25:41 <Gs30ng> well, actually i have heard about it but don't know what it is
14:25:49 <puzzlet> you know aheui
14:25:58 <Gs30ng> ...ok, i know how it work but i can't make any code with it
14:26:29 <Gs30ng> ...fine, i have made a code in befunge
14:26:38 <Gs30ng> ......i made an OS in funge-98
14:27:38 * puzzlet tries to escape from Gs30ng
14:28:07 <Gs30ng> tokigun is working on his Udage interpreter in Befunge
14:28:15 <tokigun> ...
14:28:17 <tokigun> it's not true
14:28:35 <Gs30ng> let's give him a big trout to eat
14:28:54 <Gs30ng> tokigun: you lied?!
14:29:03 <puzzlet> he doesn't like fish
14:29:14 <puzzlet> Gs30ng, that's what you have to know
14:29:15 <Gs30ng> that's why we give him it
14:29:16 <puzzlet> about him
14:29:30 <Gs30ng> do i?
14:29:32 <Gs30ng> why?
14:29:56 <Gs30ng> why should i know what he hates?
14:30:11 <puzzlet> it was a joke
14:30:29 <Gs30ng> it's not true
14:31:11 <Gs30ng> puzzlet, you want me to marry him, right?
14:31:21 <Gs30ng> i know the truth
14:32:10 <puzzlet> as long as i know your taste
14:33:50 * Gs30ng swings his hand to drive away mosquitos
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17:34:04 <calamari> hi
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20:15:08 <graue> GregorR: I added a #define to my 2L interpreter to mimic your interpreter's incorrect up/down swap, but HelloWorld still doesn't work
20:15:44 <graue> it prints 'H', 173, 25, 133, 244, then freezes
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20:19:15 <{^Raven^}> hi peeps
20:20:31 <calamari> hi raven
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21:15:27 <calamari> raven: how's your game going?
21:34:21 <{^Raven^}> pretty good
21:34:40 <{^Raven^}> still got loads more to do tho
21:34:45 <calamari> yeah, me too
21:34:53 <{^Raven^}> how's your game coming?
21:35:34 <calamari> it's going okay. I've been trying to do some of the descriptive writing, but that is very challenging for me.. I don't have a very large writing vocabulary.
21:36:33 <calamari> so it's taking more time than I'd like, because it needs to be concise yet get the right feeling across
21:37:25 <GregorR> If I could join the contest without writing any story, I would :P
21:37:33 <GregorR> An engine-only version XD
21:37:37 <{^Raven^}> i find descriptive writing difficult too unless i'm inspired. i reckon all the programming has depleted my flair for english
21:37:44 <calamari> also need to work out the data structures for my game.. I had things worked out, but it was a bad design
21:39:29 <calamari> so atm, you can move around but not do anything :)
21:40:35 <{^Raven^}> i was blocked by a bad data structure too. My present scheme takes little code to read and decode (280 bytes) and is easy on the data file size
21:41:04 <{^Raven^}> in mine there are only a few places to go but you can do a lot whilst you're there
21:41:05 <GregorR> What languages are yours' in?
21:41:24 <calamari> 8088 asm (using ms-dos system calls)
21:41:30 <{^Raven^}> mine is in BBC BASIC
21:42:06 <{^Raven^}> (using only built in functionality and no external code)
21:42:28 <GregorR> Hum
21:42:58 <GregorR> If anybody wants music for their game which is too small to possibly support music ... look me up :P
21:43:05 <jix> ot: me is learning how to use rails now...
21:43:41 <calamari> external code would be cheating anyways, right?
21:44:06 * GregorR links to libGenericGameEngine
21:44:22 <jix> if you just do it and tell noone about it no one would note it...
21:44:35 <jix> but now.. we know ;)
21:44:38 <{^Raven^}> definately, i could plug in to the Windows API and cheat but that would ruin it for me.
21:44:56 <calamari> I suppose I could write fairly brief input and output routines (since that's all I'm really using from dos), but why bother when it's already written, standard and available hehe
21:45:24 <GregorR> Write it as an OS kernel >:)
21:45:42 <GregorR> (minus the OS, really)
21:45:47 <calamari> not a problem
21:45:54 <{^Raven^}> i would use the BIOS functions if I was writing in ASM
21:46:47 <calamari> bios functions are very lame though, from a space standpoint.. have to set a lot of registers for even simpel tasks, so that wastes rom space
21:47:03 <jix> rom space?
21:47:10 <calamari> might as well keep a pointer into screen memory, it'd be smaller
21:47:19 <jix> ROM space?
21:47:30 * calamari says something else, just to annoy jix
21:48:07 <calamari> :) rom.. program size, game size, etc
21:48:16 <GregorR> New esoteric programming language: HG. If you use the 'H' command it says 'Hello World', if you use the 'G' command it plays a console text-based game with the user using the data file 'hg.dat'
21:48:44 <GregorR> Shortest console game: G
21:48:55 <GregorR> 1 byte, woooh!
21:49:23 <jix> is using inform == cheating?
21:49:26 <{^Raven^}> I reckon this year, unlike before. my data compression program will be much larger than the game
21:49:32 <calamari> hq9+ already does that ;)
21:49:49 <calamari> jix: nope
21:49:52 <jix> hmm
21:49:57 <jix> but that's too easy
21:49:59 <{^Raven^}> inform is not cheating but you'll have to submit as source code as the compiled code will be way to large
21:49:59 <calamari> jix: at least according to the rules of the contest
21:50:21 <{^Raven^}> calamari: in a usenet post PAP said TADS/Inform were okay
21:50:31 <calamari> raven: yeah, exactly
21:51:01 <calamari> I didn't notice the changes you mentioned the other day tho
21:51:03 <{^Raven^}> a bad idea and i don't believe it's possible to write anything interesting in such small source space
21:51:09 <calamari> everything seemed the same to me
21:51:37 <jix> to mee too
21:51:45 <calamari> what is different?
21:51:48 <{^Raven^}> yeah, he posted that he'd made lots of changes like a larger source size but there was no difference in reality
21:52:21 <jix> ahh that changes are ooold
21:52:26 <{^Raven^}> he's removed the ' give or take a few hundred bytes ' and the conflicting absolute maximum sizes
21:52:36 <jix> oh that arn't
21:52:58 <{^Raven^}> jix: made two days ago, the last one at my request
21:53:05 <calamari> I don't have the page here at school.. is it still 2799 and 2899 ?
21:53:16 <{^Raven^}> yeah
21:53:18 <calamari> ok
21:53:49 <calamari> I'm not sure I'll be using any compression.. I'll just have to see how far the 8k takes me
21:53:50 <jix> 2899 and 2899
21:54:05 <jix> i wan't to write a game in assembly too
21:54:17 <jix> but i don't know any asm good enough for writing a game in it
21:54:22 <{^Raven^}> he's the only programmer I know that uses SI units for bits and bytes, aka 8.192k for the data file meaning 8192 bytes
21:55:04 <jix> SI? factor 1000 instead of 1024?
21:55:07 <GregorR> Rather than 8KiB or just 8K?
21:55:14 <{^Raven^}> jix: yeah
21:55:24 <GregorR> jix: SI sez: Kilibits is factor of 1024, kilobits is factor of 1000
21:55:26 <calamari> well, the guy has serious issues.. but I'm having fun writing this game anyhow, so it doesn't matter much
21:55:32 <int-e> hmm maybe he works for a hard disk drive manufacturer
21:55:37 <int-e> muhahaha
21:55:45 <GregorR> int-e: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD
21:55:51 <jix> windows uses factor 1000
21:56:01 <GregorR> Why is my 200gig hard disk only 189gig?!
21:56:05 <jix> afaol
21:56:06 <int-e> windows is written for clueless people
21:56:08 <jix> afaik
21:57:02 <{^Raven^}> Windows only makes up for 1/3 of my computing
21:57:25 <int-e> GNU does it too, as an option: du -H (or -si): -H, --si Do the same as for -h [human readable], but use the official SI units (with powers of 1000 instead of 1024, so that M stands for 1000000 instead of 1048576). (New in fileutils-4.0.)
21:57:25 <jix> i don't use windows at all
21:57:49 <int-e> anyway: I think Windows uses is so the people don't complain to the vendors that there hard drives are too small
21:58:04 * {^Raven^} uses 3 different OSs simultaneously all the time
21:58:35 <jix> i'm using 2 OSs debian(server) and osx
21:58:52 <jix> my first computer was an apple macintosh classic II
21:59:14 <jix> got it in grade 2 or 3
22:00:07 <jix> hmm my current mac is the 4th mac i own
22:00:14 <calamari> we had a ti-99/4a, but I didn't learn how to program it until after I'd already learned on the 8088
22:00:24 <{^Raven^}> RISC OS, Linux (WBEL3.0) and WindowsXP in order of preference and started on an Acorn Electron about 20 years ago
22:00:30 <jix> classicII IIsi iMac powermacg4
22:00:45 <jix> there was no me 20 years ago
22:01:16 <GregorR> At work I use SUSe 9, RedHat 7, Solaris 8 (both 32- and 64-bit), HPUX 11.00 and 10.20, and a sprinkling few AIXes.
22:02:18 <jix> at work i... uhm at school.. we have a room with 15 imacs (unused with m$ office) and a room with 15 pc's (used but without m$ office (license problems ^^)) and everyone complains about missing m$ office
22:02:36 <GregorR> XD
22:02:48 <jix> i used to be admin at the mac-room but it's unused
22:02:51 <GregorR> Do they have OpenOffice or similar?
22:02:53 <calamari> openoffice isn't very good.. m$'s is better
22:02:54 <jix> yes
22:03:00 * GregorR slaughters calamari.
22:03:14 <int-e> LaTeX rules the world.
22:03:35 <jix> they say "it's incompatible" just because they save the files as open-office and are too stupid too select "M$ word file (.doc)"
22:03:48 <jix> and the admins are stupid
22:03:52 <calamari> every time I try to get something done it's always autocompleting and formatting .. office does it too, but it seems to be smarter about it
22:03:55 <jix> they block ssh but allow irc....
22:04:45 <jix> they block hard-disk access outside of the documents folder but i was able too install gimp into the documents folder and the gtk open file dialog allowed me to view the whole harddisk
22:04:56 <GregorR> XD
22:05:00 <GregorR> Genius
22:05:06 <calamari> lol
22:05:17 <int-e> grr, why does Open Office have to produce .doc files, and why do people then compare Open Office based on it's compatibility to Microsoft Office?
22:05:31 <int-e> jix: do they allow telnet?
22:05:33 <GregorR> int-e: DING DING DING!!!!
22:05:34 <int-e> jix: or ftp?
22:05:47 <jix> int-e: they don't have a port filter but filter for encrypted connections
22:06:00 <{^Raven^}> i use HTML for all my document layouts and only import into Word if I have to
22:06:03 <jix> that's the most stupid network setup i ever seen
22:06:13 <int-e> ah, right, encryption is illegal - make a base64 proxy ;)
22:06:19 <jix> haha
22:06:29 <jix> encryption is not illegal?
22:06:31 <jix> !
22:06:36 <int-e> I know it isn't
22:06:44 <jix> aahhhh rot13 is illegal
22:06:50 * GregorR hauls jix off to MicroSoft Prison [tm] [patent #543542354234]
22:07:03 <int-e> We'll have to wait a few more years, maybe even decades for that to happen.
22:07:20 <int-e> (in fact we'll outlaw random data)
22:07:38 <GregorR> Microsoft has a patent on random data.
22:07:42 <GregorR> They invented randomness.
22:07:50 <jix> nah i wan't the improved [tm] Microsoft [tm] Prison [tm] 2006 [tm] because it has prisoner [tm] leaks
22:07:54 <int-e> I thought Shannon pretty much did that.
22:08:17 <int-e> ;)
22:08:24 <GregorR> Before Microsoft there was order, only with Microsoft did Chaos rule the world :P
22:08:44 <{^Raven^}> Microsoft has a patent on electrical systems used to transmit data within a human body - Everybody alive is in breach of that patent
22:08:52 <jix> random: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/
22:09:00 <pgimeno> Intel is the winner in the [tm] field, methinks
22:09:09 <int-e> I bet breathing air is a patentable technical process.
22:09:21 <calamari> a final thought before I leave.. http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/misc/msprayer.txt
22:09:49 <calamari> cya all
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22:10:12 * jix is reading Four DaysFour Days on Railson Rails now
22:10:16 <jix> oops
22:10:19 <GregorR> pgimeno: Though AMD is just being lame and noninventive by implementing Intel APIs, Intel is innovative and forward-thinking with the EM64T.
22:10:20 * jix is reading Four DaysFour Days on Rails now
22:11:02 <int-e> GregorR, yes, just like Microsoft went forth and invented the Internet 5 years ago.
22:11:13 <GregorR> Exactly!
22:11:15 <pgimeno> me is looking for an Intel document for the 386...
22:11:37 <int-e> pgimeno: why?
22:11:42 <GregorR> Look in the archives from 30 years ago XD
22:11:53 <GregorR> Because Intel makes /modern/ processors.
22:11:55 <int-e> whose archives? google's or Microsoft's?
22:12:14 <int-e> "He who controls the past, controls the future."
22:12:16 <graue> I have a huge text file called "INTEL 80386 PROGRAMMER'S REFERENCE MANUAL 1986"
22:12:33 <GregorR> OK, I have to stop berading Intel while at work ... at Intel :P .. back to work with me.
22:12:48 <int-e> is MS bashing ok?
22:13:10 <pgimeno> http://web.tiscali.it/luigisgro/itdisc1.html
22:13:57 <GregorR> It's awesome that "i" is a trademark of Intel :P
22:14:11 <pgimeno> yup
22:14:12 <int-e> "He who controls the present, controls the past."
22:14:23 <int-e> Now I know why that quote felt incomplete to me.
22:14:32 <pgimeno> I have the original document with that trademark note
22:15:39 <GregorR> Jesus [tm] is a registered trademark of Intel, all users of the trademark Jesus [tm] not referring to an Intel product will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
22:20:36 -!- cpressey has quit ("leaving").
22:21:19 -!- cpressey has joined.
23:04:34 <jix> .
23:08:36 <GregorR> .?!
23:08:43 <GregorR> .?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!
23:08:51 <jix> ,
23:09:13 <jix> and now both together:
23:09:13 <GregorR> ,! ,=+++
23:09:15 <jix> ;
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23:21:14 <GregorR> I can't believe logicex-2.fyb is still the champion.
23:21:29 <GregorR> Somebody defeat it! Come ooooooooooooooooooon!
23:21:43 <jix> hmm
23:21:47 <jix> ;)
23:23:43 <GregorR> Heyyy! My laptop is finally back from Toshiba!
23:23:55 <jix> 15th and 16th October... ok
23:24:29 <jix> ahh cool it's a weekend
23:24:56 <GregorR> ?
23:25:11 <jix> EuRuKo
23:25:26 <jix> European Ruby Konference
23:25:33 <GregorR> Ahh
23:25:43 <jix> but it's in munich.. :(
23:26:55 <jix> ok back to fyb
23:27:19 <jix> but i took a look at a mach.. it's too short
23:28:05 <jix> it makes no sense to develop big programs because a shortone with >>>>>>>>>> laybomb x 30 will bomb you
23:35:13 <int-e> hmm
23:36:04 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:37:49 <int-e> wouldn't it be nicer to present those results as a table?
23:39:54 <int-e> similar to http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~bf3/fyb
23:48:54 <int-e> Ah I see that part is automatically generated.
23:52:57 <lament> what's fyb?
23:53:34 <int-e> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/FukYorBrane
23:54:53 <lament> ah
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