00:00:37 Yup 00:00:52 Also, every real computer in the universe :P 00:01:34 there's probably an equivalence between every MISC program and a SMETANA program... that's scary 00:04:49 I wonder what the most RISCy non-esoteric ASM is. 00:06:44 there's a (half-esoteric) assembly language which has only MOV 00:06:52 The Transputer instruction set was comprised of 8-bit instructions broken into two nibbles. The "upper" nibble contained the instruction code, making it truly RISC with only 16 basic instructions. 00:07:02 Transputers are a good guess, I think. 00:07:04 just some registers do special operations when MOVed 00:07:34 it's the one used in the Wireworld computer 00:08:01 I think that would qualify as fully esoteric, pgimeno :) 00:08:26 * GregorR looks up transputer. 00:09:19 well, it has a ciscish instruction for less common operations, so I'm not sure if it really qualifies. but it's neat. 00:09:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transputer#Instruction_set 00:12:08 Intersil 80c88 looks good 00:12:36 low power, static design, and instruction set that I already know :) 00:24:36 80c88 is x86? 00:24:49 8088 was 8086 with 8bit data bus? 00:25:02 and 80c88 is a variant of 8088? 00:28:07 cmos version 00:28:50 ah 00:29:02 Intersil 80c88 looks good << for what? 00:29:24 just messing around... :) I've always wanted to build a portable system 00:29:48 the problem with most of them is that you have to constantly be charging them 00:30:07 true 00:30:38 i'd suggest using the arm7tdmi (gba and ipod uses them both have ok charging time) 00:31:08 it is powerful and easy to program 00:31:36 it has 2 instruction sets.. one for speed and another one for slow ram and small code size 00:31:45 gcc supports it 00:32:04 thumb... 00:32:15 int-e: yes 00:32:35 gcc supports arm and thumb instruction sets 00:32:56 i'm working on my 1802 assembler 00:33:10 it uses ruby files for assembly code 00:33:28 and some dirty hacks that allow writing like normal assembler code 00:34:46 eew.. why would I want to use gcc to write programs for an embedded device? :) 00:35:09 calamari: because sometimes assembler isn't the best choice 00:35:21 i used gcc for gba programming too 00:36:16 and you can use gas for assembling 00:36:23 hah! 00:36:36 calamari: hah?! 00:36:44 nasm 00:37:05 don't know nasm 00:37:31 it uses intel syntax instead of that horrible at&t 00:38:33 the arm asm syntax from gas was ok 00:38:48 oic 00:39:00 never used gas for anything else than ppc and arm 00:40:12 at&t is delightfully terrible 00:40:12 imo x86 asm is always ugly 00:40:29 you'd probably like it despite of not liking x86, jix 00:41:16 it's like: SUB A,B means: SUBtract A from B 00:41:33 I need to go eat something 00:41:33 yes but the register names are.. 00:41:44 CMP A,B tests B in relation to A 00:41:47 cya all :) 00:41:52 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 00:41:54 pgimeno: that's all ok 00:42:01 but i don't like the register names 00:42:06 and jmp 00:42:16 the registers are the same names, just preceded with % 00:42:29 this is getting repetitive. 00:42:30 or was it $? 00:42:35 no they are like %aex... not like r0..r31 00:42:36 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:42:47 $eip, I think 00:42:56 pgimeno: i don't know x86 that much 00:43:01 i only saw some asm code 00:43:23 * pgimeno stops ranting 00:43:31 pgimeno, I think you're mixing up gas and gdb 00:43:41 doh 00:43:51 you're right 00:44:04 gdb is cool 00:44:24 it has objc support 00:44:31 anyway jix would hate nasm, because the operands are swapped there. (well, not for x86 assembly coders but for everyone else) 00:44:47 int-e: swapped?! 00:45:07 mov eax, 42 sets eax to 42. mov eax, ebx sets eax to the value of ebx. 00:46:17 the worst part of free software is that everyone makes things different to each other and I end up mixing things 00:46:21 er 00:46:30 I said I'd stop ranting, sorry 00:46:55 that's Z80ish too 00:47:03 pgimeno, intel did it differently from everyone else. the gas coders made a backend for gcc that made the compiler work as similar to the other backends as possible 00:47:36 anyway the cmp bit still puzzles me 00:48:03 that's why the $ and % signs are there, that's why the instructions got suffixes for the various sizes, that's why memory addresses are specified in such a strange way, and that's why the operands are swapped 00:48:05 cmp is easy 00:48:09 cmp eax,ebx / jle addr -> jumps if ebx <= eax 00:48:16 cmp is sub but doesn't modify any operand 00:48:32 yeah 00:48:48 and no it doesn't. 00:49:13 int-e: add r1,r2,r3 sets r1 to r2+r3 on ppc afaik 00:49:36 i just modified some ppc code did not much coding 00:50:04 there is no good ppc asm introduction 00:50:07 pgimeno maybe you stumbled on a signed/unsigned issue? jle is for signed numbers 00:50:21 jbe is for unsigned numbers 00:51:28 so is cmp re-reversed? 00:51:47 cmp eax, ebx; jle jumps if eax<=ebx. 00:52:29 ah 00:52:53 so only sub eax,ebx; jle addr jumps if ebx <= eax 00:52:57 nice 00:52:58 no 00:53:11 that also jumps if eax<=ebx 00:53:26 we *are* talking about intel (nasm) syntax, aren't we? 00:53:29 er sorry, notation... cmp %eax, %ebx 00:53:36 nope, AT&T 00:53:53 I personally like NASM syntax 00:53:53 ok, then everything is reversed and some mnemonics are confusing 00:54:30 but it's all clear once you realize that the operands were reversed. 00:54:48 that's what I meant but I'm not in my best moment... sorry 00:55:01 ppc gas syntax: add r11, r7, r8 ; add the values in registers r7, r8 and store in r11 00:55:15 strange 00:55:21 normal to me 00:56:49 arm uses the same syntax 00:57:25 its like r11=r7+r8 00:59:14 blub 00:59:23 i like the bla instruction 00:59:34 it's actually not strange at all, but you'll find assemblers where it means add r11 and r7 and store the result in r8 00:59:48 int-e: that's like 3code 00:59:53 and that's an esolang 01:00:11 what's bla? branch if less or above makes no sense ;) 01:00:11 3code uses 1+2=x 01:00:28 int-e: Branch and Link using Absolute adressing 01:00:36 ah. 01:00:52 another alias for call/bsr. I forgot that one. 01:01:28 on ppc there is no call 01:01:35 and no bsr 01:05:30 int-e: there is no operand order problems for the 1802 01:05:37 there is no instruction with more than 1 operand 01:05:43 that's clever 01:05:56 load-store architecture, eh. 01:06:27 the add instruction has no operands 01:07:04 you use SEX to specify the operand and add adds it to the accumulator 01:07:25 sex r1|add adds r1 to D 01:07:41 mmmmmmmm 01:07:52 sex 01:08:16 lament: did you know the Voyager Satellite has SEX? 01:08:29 ewwwwww 01:25:34 -!- heatsink has joined. 01:43:52 my assembler code works 01:44:07 Ru1802Asm.new("endless!;br endless").hex_assemble #=> "30 00\n" 01:44:30 labels are done using name! or _name 01:45:49 gn8 01:45:59 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 01:51:02 -!- calamari has joined. 01:51:05 hi 01:54:30 hi 01:55:26 hi! 01:55:44 how was genetics class? 01:56:10 Great. First day.. its going to be an easy class 01:57:20 genetics? 01:57:48 Yeah, Im taking a genetics course to fulfill a 2 credit life science req. Its b.s. 01:58:21 Genetic programming language would be fun 01:58:38 what are you talking about? 01:58:46 all programming languages are genetic programming languages 01:58:52 you keep tweaking them until they work 02:00:00 Well... my esolang is specifically geared towards genetic programming 02:00:06 like Avida 02:00:38 interesting. But isn't the genetic code generally a domain-specific lagnauge? 02:00:39 I've messed around with gp.. lots to learn there 02:01:21 Its not in genetic code (ATGC...), its just used to model cells which reproduce themselves 02:01:33 well.. it will be... once an implementation is built 02:02:13 During my genetics lecture, I was working on a rough design for the interpreter system 02:02:36 lol 02:03:02 so you *were* enjoying class.... 02:03:52 If you consider not paying attention to class participation, then yes 02:06:58 The books were expensive... $177 US 02:16:44 * pgimeno ponders about writing an intelligent design language 02:17:03 what do you mean by intelligent design? 02:17:36 er... how's it called... the alternative theory to evolution 02:19:07 what are you talking about? 02:19:14 all programming languages are intelligent design languages 02:19:17 ;) 02:19:35 are all the programming languages genetic? 02:19:59 Oh 02:20:01 that's right 02:20:28 well i didn't meant that way... :( 02:20:56 Hmm... I think Befunge might qualify as intelligent design (YOU can change the code, making you the intelligent creator) 02:21:35 then Versert should be most intelligent design 02:21:58 TC with no stack, but only self-modifying 02:22:20 http://dev.tokigun.net/esolang/versert/index_en.php 02:24:39 for ID reference see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design (yes, my proposal was ironic) 02:28:48 hmm 02:29:02 i don't think all the programming languages are genetic 02:29:52 the process of the embodiment of them could be genetic but the languages themselves are not all genetic 02:31:18 actually i think nongenetic ones are more than genetic ones 02:39:16 sorry, back stupid webmail said I had an incorrect password... 02:39:19 liars 02:44:31 I disagree on the statement that Versert is 'genetic' since it cannot modify its own code, only according to the definition that I listed above 02:49:09 Its a sweet language though. Good work Tokigun 02:55:13 i named the language 02:55:35 but i don't even know how to write hello world code with it 03:02:29 8+*~.@ prints an @? 03:03:38 -!- CXII has changed nick to CXI. 03:05:03 its magic Gs30ng, voodoo magic 03:05:14 * WildHalcyon waves his hands mysteriously 03:06:08 -!- CXI has changed nick to Teeth. 03:06:29 oh, that's how voodoo graphic card work 03:06:38 recieve the data, magic, send the data 03:07:22 Yup 03:07:39 Except thats asm voodoo. 03:07:42 I think 03:07:43 ? 03:08:40 I was really peeved at this stupid girl today. 03:08:42 -!- Teeth has changed nick to CXI. 03:08:52 Gs30ng, what, you've made another language again? 03:09:05 I was trying to rescue an abandoned kitten, and she came lumbering in and scared it off 03:09:08 what are you talking about 03:09:34 or were you talking about Udage 03:09:41 i guess 03:09:54 the college entrance exam is 98 days left 03:09:59 I think we were talking about Versert? or something 03:10:06 i can't make any more useless language 03:11:08 although i strongly want to do so 03:11:09 :( 03:12:16 ...ok it does mean that i don't have any time to stay here for just fun too 03:12:17 afk 03:19:29 Ahhhhhhhhhh, MUD = sooo much work. 03:19:34 I don't even have the entire basic foundation in place. 03:28:49 have you tried eating it? 03:46:18 -!- int-e has quit ("Bye!"). 03:56:30 -!- cpressey has quit ("leaving"). 03:58:25 -!- cpressey has joined. 04:07:47 -!- WildHalcyon has left (?). 04:29:28 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 04:30:02 -!- cpressey has quit ("leaving"). 04:30:09 -!- cpressey_ has changed nick to cpressey. 04:40:35 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out). 04:51:44 -!- WildHalcyon has joined. 05:13:47 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 05:14:18 Im thinking of having a development blog of my language. Anyone know of a good blog site for a project like this? 05:40:22 -!- calamari_ has joined. 05:42:47 WildHalcyon: you'd rather use tools like WordPress of MovableType on your own account 05:42:48 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:42:56 s/of/or 05:59:26 hmm... 05:59:45 Whats the diff between WordPress & MovableType? 06:03:10 I suppose I should probably name the language before I try implementing a blog on the design too 06:03:27 y'know.. register the domain and everything. It's just a pain, to keep updating and reposting the spec on my school account 06:12:23 udage was formerly 'Switch' 06:13:15 i suffured something similar 06:14:05 Well, Im less concerned with that, and more concerned with the fact that CRAWL was never meant to be the language name 06:14:21 its just a random thought that popped into my idea right around this same time a few days ago 06:14:49 well, you can use something like 'codename' 06:15:59 Thats what I have been doing 06:16:23 but if I go through the trouble of reserving a domain name, I should probably have the name pretty much settled... 06:16:54 well actually you don't have to worry about domain thing 06:17:21 you can just redirect the pages 06:17:48 hmm.. yeah, thats an option too 06:18:16 unless you're going to use some kind of name that seems to be registered sooner or later 06:18:33 You never know 06:18:54 just think unique name 06:18:56 With my luck, whatever I DO call it will probably end up being registered anyways 06:19:57 unique... 06:21:21 and according to my experience, although it takes too much to come up with any nice name, don't give up to think 06:22:06 I'll work on it. My gf helped me name that stray kitten, she can probably help with the esolang too ;-) 06:22:31 my gf DOES. 06:23:21 she told me that i don't need NAND thing 06:23:48 but NAND is nice... simple 06:24:02 conditional jump only is more simple 06:24:34 oh, i mean that, she told me about NAND thing in Udage 06:25:16 Hmm.. I dont know if my gf can help in that capacity. She's not a programmer 06:26:27 my gf is not a programmer too. well, she majors in physics 06:29:12 Yeah, but Im not certain my gf has the interest in the project that yours might have in Udage. 06:29:48 She paid enough attention to spot the NAND thing; that's gotta count for something, right? 06:30:11 some geeks name the lang after their gf 06:30:18 ...'s name 06:30:44 Nope. Not gonna do it. Besides, her name is taken (by a furniture store) 06:31:37 i heard that Debian Linux(not a lang, though) is named after the developer and his... err... gf? wife? anyway 06:32:56 I don't think she would appreciate that either, honestly. I'll think of a nice organic-sounding name that will be great 06:34:55 unexpectedly my gf's nickname is penguin 06:35:14 i hardly can use that on computer related thing, you know 06:35:26 Unexpectedly, thats not a bad lang name. Is she a linux fan? 06:36:00 Bharal! I could name it Bharal! 06:36:57 uhm, what is it? 06:37:02 not that that really makes a ton of sense unless you're into mountain goats 06:37:21 Its a himalayan sheep. Famous for leaping on cliffs 06:37:50 well, would you tell me about the lang spec briefly? 06:39:03 Its a funge-varient that implements function spaces that have their own topology (they wrap independent of the rest of the program). The stack is composed of lists, rather than separate elements (like Joy) 06:39:24 I'm using the program to model genetically evolving programs, similar to the software Avida and Tierra 06:41:57 I'm removing redundant funge elements in order to reduce the instruction set as well... 06:42:18 is halcyon provision the bharals? :) 06:42:55 not that I am aware of. I just googled bharal, and I think someone lied to me :-( 06:43:13 Apparently, its the Himalayan Tahr which lives on the cliffsides and the males try to knock one another off the cliff 06:44:43 If you want to see the provisional spec, go here: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/CRAWL.txt 06:45:08 It mostly deals with how the implementation details would effect the project, but hopefully you can see where I am going with this. 06:45:51 well, penguin halcyon bharal, all animals 06:46:14 yeah, but penguin and bharal are common names, I believe that halcyon is the scientific name for the kingfisher, correct? 06:47:14 afaik, halcyon is a mythic kingfisher 06:48:40 Maybe its halcyonia or something like that is the genus... 06:48:42 I dont remember 06:48:49 I know kingfisher. Meh. 06:49:12 my dic says, in greek myth, halcyon nests on the sea 06:50:15 then the waves and winds are gone, and the bird lays its egg 06:50:34 hence the connection with peace 06:50:42 and calm 06:50:48 sounds cool 06:51:44 i had no idea that the word can be used as adjective 06:51:49 like peaceful and tranquil 06:52:24 Yep, its rare, but the most common idiomatic usage is 06:52:29 "the halcyon days of summer" 06:52:46 how would Halcyon programming language be? 06:53:11 ohm ohm ohm 06:53:36 Im not crazy about it, because there are several companies named halcyon. It just doesn't ring of authenticity 06:54:54 I'll think of something. Im gonna go to bed now. I just updated the specification abstract again, so maybe I can mull this over and add it on tomorrow 06:55:06 Good luck with it 06:55:10 Thanks 06:55:49 Everyone interested, check out http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/CRAWL.txt to see the updated abstract! 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 11:45:40 -!- calamari_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:01:37 -!- jix has joined. 12:01:53 moin everyone 12:03:52 moin. 12:04:03 ...grouped everyone. lol 12:05:00 jix, how's your drow lang going? 12:05:12 hm it isn't really going 12:05:27 i have so many ideas.. can't realize them all... 12:05:38 but my 1802 assembler works 12:05:50 i feel something like that too 12:06:47 well, maybe a stupid advice but, just try to make them clear in your brain before you realize them 12:07:16 ever saw a complete assembler including power full macros and tools for LUT generation in 167 lines of code? 12:08:11 i don't actually know much about assemblers... well sounds funny for an esolang developer but whatever 12:08:30 but i'm interested. would you tell me about it briefly? 12:09:02 i was too lazy to implement a parser 12:09:13 and i thought.. why don't use ruby files as assembler files 12:09:36 in ruby if someone calls an undefined method the method method_missing is called 12:09:52 and i just check in method_missing if the called method is a register or a mnemonic... 12:10:16 and i get macros and LUT generation because one may write normal ruby code into the assembler file 12:10:35 aha 12:10:54 that is really something. 12:11:42 and in the 1802 all instructions (2 exceptions) fit into 1 of 4 schemes 12:11:49 of 5 12:12:01 instruction with no operands.. only 1 byte 12:12:15 instructions with a register operand 4bit+4bit register 1 byte 12:12:25 cute machine, i think 12:12:33 and so on.. 12:12:44 yes pretty cool for 1976 12:12:56 1976. wow. 12:18:40 afk 12:25:31 -!- kipple has joined. 12:27:44 grouped kipple 12:28:04 grouped? what do you mean? 12:28:13 i always say moin 12:28:25 and Gs30ng told me that in his language moin means grouped 12:28:30 ok 12:28:33 hi! 12:29:07 I don't know what moin means either, but I'm guessing something like 'hello' 12:29:11 i've written an assembler in under 200loc 12:29:25 kipple: yes it's like hello (hello is hallo in german) 12:30:06 moin is short for mojen dach ( plattdeutsch (german dialect)) => guten tag (german) => good day (english) 13:28:05 it must be funny to program for this... http://arrakis.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ps2/cluster.php 13:47:21 -!- Gs30ng has quit ("'Ungrouped'"). 14:22:40 -!- int-e has joined. 14:56:49 my 1802 asm rules 14:57:28 202 lines of assembler code.. no cli atm 14:57:44 2 tla in a row cool 15:02:36 removed unused code.. 197 lines now 15:33:38 * WildHalcyon yawns 15:36:18 * jix too 17:59:05 -!- int-e has quit ("Bye!"). 19:14:05 -!- kipple_ has joined. 19:14:06 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:14:57 Hey kip ;-) 19:16:55 -!- int-e has joined. 19:39:10 * GregorR bites you in the face! 19:42:00 ouch!.. I think 19:42:45 GregorR: don't do that! 19:43:16 * GregorR types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types /me types .. 19:43:41 Time for lunch! 19:43:44 * GregorR disappears. 19:43:54 a miracle! 19:43:56 he's gone! 19:44:25 poof! 19:44:50 Anyone know why the pingpong page is so.. barren? 19:48:11 what's pingpong? 19:49:22 its a befunge derivative 19:49:33 Its got some nice syntax that befreak borrowed a bit of 19:57:35 -!- {^Raven^} has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:58:01 -!- {^Raven^} has joined. 20:01:45 -!- CXI has joined. 20:40:01 -!- calamari has joined. 21:00:39 * GregorR forms from the ether. 21:05:57 GregorR: how is your mud going 21:06:20 I did some cleanup yesterday, and almost have the math parser in place. 21:06:31 do you have a name? 21:06:36 i have a cool name 21:06:44 (for the mud) 21:06:53 For the MUD or the engine? 21:06:57 yes 21:06:58 infinite delusions 21:07:15 int-e is clearly not a MUDding fan :P 21:07:32 are you sure? 21:07:43 Or, int-e is a fan of delusions *shrugs* 21:08:12 jix: I'm just writing the engine, I'm no good at storyline design :P 21:08:15 No. I've too many mud projects that were never finished. 21:08:45 Ahh 21:08:46 GregorR: the engine should have a name 21:09:14 Of course, I just wanted to make sure I was clear on what was being named here ... OK, so what's your suggestion for the name for the engine? 21:09:56 Schlamm or another german word from http://dict.leo.org/se?lp=ende&p=/Mn4k.&search=mud 21:11:42 Schlamm sort of sounds like a pun on "MUD" and "SLAM!", which is an odd thing to pun against :P 21:13:26 I like "Morast" 21:14:02 swamp ... (not quite) 21:14:33 They all seemed to have a number of not-quite-mud definitions. 21:15:04 WuS = Wasser und Schmutz 21:15:07 :P 21:16:28 More Useless Dungeons. 21:29:23 IGEAMUAWCATFU = Immersive Game Engine Allowing Multiple Users from Around the World to Collectively Adventure Through a Fictional Universe 21:29:37 It really rolls of the tongue, too. 21:29:56 I-gee-om-ooh-aw-cat-foo 21:30:19 lol 21:31:13 add (Dungeon), then it can be -cat-food 21:31:52 Fictional Universe Creator ... err ... never mind. 21:38:13 Fictional Universe Creator Kit? 22:05:15 Fictional Universe Creator Kit for Your Optimal Utilization of World-Heuristics Organization and Resource Engineering. 22:33:02 haha 23:06:31 *boredom sets in* 23:06:43 Unfortunately, programming a MUD at work is frowned upon :P 23:10:01 i'm still improving my assembler 23:10:21 it has macro local labels now 23:10:33 well you can specify label scopes anywhere 23:11:49 Hmm, I need to write a MISCas to go with my MISCvm (that I forgot to release yesterday >_>) 23:12:00 What does MISC ASM look like, anyway? :P 23:12:09 ugly 23:12:12 just numbers 23:12:14 numbers, numbers, numbers_ 23:12:16 no mnemonics 23:12:22 Awesome. 23:12:25 i love the word mnemonic... 23:12:32 you could have one mnemonic, OP 23:12:40 OP 42 23 11 23:12:48 Or SUBN 23:12:53 oiomisc 23:12:55 Plus labels. 23:13:03 -c 23:13:04 A: OP A A A 23:13:06 Only Instruction Of Misc Instruction Set 23:13:13 lol 23:15:25 A: YCUAMOYCH A A A 23:15:36 (you can use any mnemonic of your choice here) 23:15:51 yes 23:16:00 allow any character combination as mnemonic 23:16:49 A: IT X X X 23:16:56 B: IS Y Y Y 23:17:05 C: AS Z Z Z 23:17:24 X: EASY A X Y 23:17:30 Y: AS Z Z Z 23:17:39 Z: ABC A B C 23:18:05