00:00:42 phylosophy can be so cool :) 00:08:19 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: Got it working on Windows ;) Pretty cool ! 00:09:09 {^Raven^}, did you use the version I uploaded just 5 minutes ago? :) 00:09:13 Because it's a LOT faster! 00:09:37 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: I used version 23:15, i''l check it out 00:10:17 In the newest interpreter, once it's loaded and starts displaying texts, LK will respond almost immediatly after pressing commands (unlike version 23:15 ;)) 00:10:55 <{^Raven^}> 23:15 beats quite a few BF interpreters for speed 00:10:59 I'm playing LK now, just started reading the help files. This saving with z, is it supposed to work? Doesn't work with brainloller 00:11:25 (and I would be surprised if it worked with BF interpreters :)) 00:11:36 <{^Raven^}> saving is to memory only 00:11:42 ok 00:11:49 then it works :) 00:12:04 <{^Raven^}> if you die or want to reload choose play again and enter Y 00:12:05 <{^Raven^}> cool :) 00:12:33 Let me know if you noticed a speed difference in the newest interpreter :) 00:14:27 It's really amazing that all those long texts and description are all in this BF code! 00:15:48 I also appreciate it that you can type "Take 2" instead of "t2", because when I just started I was using "take" without even knowing that it ignored the other letters than t :) 00:17:25 <{^Raven^}> yup, much faster 00:18:05 nice 00:18:20 <{^Raven^}> have you seen the help text/backstory yet? 00:18:30 Yep, I'm going through all ?'s now 00:18:37 After that, I'll go through all !'s 00:18:59 <{^Raven^}> the help and backstory are the two big green blobs in the middle 00:19:02 I already figured I'm a king living in a wooden hut instead of his former castle :) 00:19:13 oh, that's cool :) 00:19:28 where is the parser engine? 00:20:42 "tickle dwarf number 4" haha :) 00:20:42 <{^Raven^}> maybe 100 pixels down from the top 00:21:23 What's the huge red part near the bottom with all the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and <<<<<<<<<<<<<<'s? 00:22:19 <{^Raven^}> the big red bit is the the command processor that peforms the actions 00:22:37 This is the most awesome bf program Ive ever seen 00:23:00 wildhalcyon, seen it in this form already? http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/brainloller/lk.png 00:23:31 <{^Raven^}> wildhalcyon: thanks 00:24:07 So basicly, the greenish parts contain lots of text, and the red parts are mostly calculations :) 00:24:37 <{^Raven^}> pretty much yes 00:25:26 <{^Raven^}> the green bar in the top third is the room and object description 00:26:41 Oh yes Aardwolf, indeed I have seen it in beautiful picture form 00:29:41 does BFBASIC do a lot of optimizations? 00:30:10 For example, things like, trying to put things that are often needed together, near each other in memory so that as few >>> and <<<'s are needed as possible :) 00:30:12 <{^Raven^}> most of the code is not as optimal as it could be 00:30:54 Well actually the amount of >>>> and <<<<'s probably doesn't matter in a good brainfuck interpreter (and brainloller skips them too now) but it still saves a lot of space 00:31:20 <{^Raven^}> the main size issue relates to how BFBASIC organises conditional code 00:31:53 In the big red parts, it's jumping back and forth between two adresses very far apart, appearantly 00:32:27 well more than two addresses actually 00:32:38 <{^Raven^}> yes, BFBASIC uses line numbers to label sections of code, each line has a memory cell associated with it 00:32:54 <{^Raven^}> to jump to a particular line you set the corresponding cell to 1 00:33:07 Is it possible that all the texts are stored between conditional variables so that it has to jump over the texts all the time? 00:34:05 <{^Raven^}> something like that 00:34:33 Where is the "map" in the code? I read that there are 2 mazes for example :) 00:34:50 <{^Raven^}> hehe, both are easy 00:35:03 >pwnd 00:35:03 Your worship is not rewarded. 00:35:07 haha :p 00:36:06 <{^Raven^}> each room sets the exits when the description is printed 00:36:49 <{^Raven^}> (there are actually two seperate but similiar games in LostKng.b) 00:37:13 ??? 00:37:17 two games? 00:38:00 <{^Raven^}> the short description version is a truer but enhanced conversion of the original game 00:38:42 oh, so there are soms rooms connected differently in the short description version? 00:39:25 <{^Raven^}> the map is the same, but there is a key puzzle which is different 00:39:58 <{^Raven^}> and the long version has the nice descriptions is more similiar to what I wanted to write initially 00:40:12 I'm playing the long version for now 00:40:36 <{^Raven^}> i prefer that one 00:41:29 <{^Raven^}> the game has been played by a lot of 'mainstream' users 00:41:45 <{^Raven^}> who don't even know what brainfuck is :) 00:42:43 <{^Raven^}> and I only had one esoteric beta-tester of the five 00:43:16 it's easy to forget that you're using an interpreter for an esoteric language when a game appears :) 00:44:04 <{^Raven^}> ROFL! 00:44:39 <{^Raven^}> I know that bf is turing complete but I needed to prove that it was possible to do 00:45:17 I don't think I know any other bf program that I'd want to run longer than 1 minute 00:45:26 This, I could keep running for hours :) 00:45:47 <{^Raven^}> thanks aardwolf that is a big compliment 00:47:05 <{^Raven^}> it shows that esoteric languages can be used to create useful software for a mainstream audience 00:48:20 yep 00:49:07 I find it fun to think about people who play it without knowing what language it's written in, and then out of curiosity they open the .b file and see all those weird symbols :) 00:54:48 <{^Raven^}> lk.png makes an interesting backdrop 00:55:51 yeah, actually... :) 00:57:13 hmm I wonder if I could use those matches on the dynamite... 00:57:30 *saves* 00:58:56 <{^Raven^}> as non-command colours are treated as whitespace, it should be possible to embed an image within the program 00:59:35 yeah now that you mention it I should still optimize the interpreter to jump over nops 01:00:28 <{^Raven^}> users could create logos that the program would flow around 01:01:19 yeah, and it's even possible to hide code in an image 01:02:39 it would look consipicious of course 01:03:09 <{^Raven^}> unless the image appears to be a random dot stereogram 01:03:21 <{^Raven^}> i wouldn't like to try and code that though 01:05:48 Just uploaded an interpreter that will jump over series of nops (won't make a difference for Lost Kingdom of course) 01:09:30 <{^Raven^}> i would never have imagined using paint shop pro as a programmers editor :P 01:10:59 I think Piet was the first language to use an image as source :) 01:15:38 <{^Raven^}> i've got lk.png down to 77.8K and it still works! 01:18:36 <{^Raven^}> http://jonripley.com/volatile/lk2.png 01:19:21 Did you use a better png encoder? 01:20:11 (than kolourpaint's) 01:20:58 <{^Raven^}> yeah, used PSP and have confirmed that the images are binary identical 01:21:53 <{^Raven^}> uncompressed it's a 4Mb sprite 01:22:01 I'll see how big it is when saved with the gimp 01:22:50 136kb, and I set compression level to highest 01:23:05 I miss PSP in Linux :( 01:25:17 aha! managed to bring it to 72KB with the gimp 01:25:30 by using indexed color with 16 colors 01:28:04 I'm off to bed now, bye 01:28:32 -!- Aardwolf has quit ("Ik zen der is mee weg"). 01:28:54 <{^Raven^}> me three it's early 01:29:13 <{^Raven^}> nite wildhalcyon 01:32:35 night! 01:34:06 wait.. who's going where now? 01:36:15 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:37:01 -!- kipple has joined. 02:47:33 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:11:42 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:37:45 -!- lament has joined. 07:07:14 -!- nooga has joined. 07:07:17 hello 07:12:53 -!- nooga has quit. 07:16:35 -!- nooga has joined. 07:48:12 hehe 07:48:29 i looked at that: http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/brainloller/lk.png 07:48:47 and now i want to create a image based esolang ! ;d 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:17:39 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:24:14 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:32:05 -!- nooga has joined. 08:57:29 -!- tokigun has joined. 09:02:38 hi tokigun 09:07:50 All the cool kids make image-based esolangs. 09:08:08 What's wrong nooga ... aren't you cool ... /me gives nooga an image-bong. 11:09:21 -!- Aardwolf has joined. 11:13:32 <{^Raven^}> mornin Aardwolf 11:17:14 hi 11:43:28 you know what's fun, draw some random lines or pixels on lk.png, save it, and run that. I got this output: 11:43:30 a bed. FiFüûiiøúüiùGiø mockeryy 11:43:32 ye 11:43:32 a^y[^Y^y`^[Zy4yYüUZyÿ[[^y`[y`yü_`yXüÿ_y[a`_ÿy`[yü 11:43:32 road. 11:44:35 <{^Raven^}> hehehe 11:46:22 <{^Raven^}> I like the idea that brainroller has about 16.7 million different NOP instructions 11:46:26 <{^Raven^}> That hsa to be a record 11:49:18 hehe 11:50:36 4 billion if you use a RGBA png :) 11:51:29 <{^Raven^}> that's almost one NOP per human on the planet 11:52:04 :) 11:55:03 I think I found a bug in my png decoder, it gives an error on a png while other decoders can perfectly open it 12:06:03 oh it's not a problem after all, it's because I was loading the image while kolourpaint was still busy saving it 12:07:26 -!- grim_bed has changed nick to grim_. 12:10:58 >y 12:10:58 Restoring... 12:10:58 Wm qrmpcb e_kc. 12:10:58 You have reclaimed your birthright and your crown. 12:10:59 *** You have won *** 12:11:01 You scored 1 points out of a possible 3. 12:11:58 darn now I know the ending :( 12:15:52 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 12:18:47 -!- nooga has quit. 12:54:18 -!- kipple has joined. 12:58:10 <{^Raven^}> hehe, oops 12:58:18 <{^Raven^}> and you told everyone 12:58:41 <{^Raven^}> (it's all in the back story anyways) 13:03:13 I keep dying in the cave due to the cat :) 13:05:19 I drew a map on paper showing all connections in the forest and the path and such :) 13:31:47 <{^Raven^}> try doing something different 13:33:17 <{^Raven^}> *ly 14:02:16 I'm already at 75/100 points in the meantime :) 14:07:01 <{^Raven^}> very nice 14:08:01 <{^Raven^}> I'm tempted to call my new game 23:15 after the version of brainloller that compiled for me 14:08:51 <{^Raven^}> (its not an esoteric project though, just for the 2k adventure comp) 14:09:36 make sure it wins the competition :) 14:10:16 a question, does the catacomb maze change after the fire is out? 14:12:22 (99 points) 14:21:12 <{^Raven^}> nope 14:21:56 <{^Raven^}> (some people never make it through the catacombs) 14:27:29 I managed to make a map of the catacombs by marking all rooms with a different object (there were a bit too few objects to mark them all though ;)) 14:33:01 <{^Raven^}> hehehe 14:33:23 It's a very confusing map full of arrows, because of all those rooms connecting to themselves and such 14:34:19 I'm trying to open the metal door no 14:34:20 w 14:38:54 You have reclaimed your birthright and your crown. 14:38:54 *** You have won *** 14:38:54 You scored 99 points out of a possible 100. 14:38:54 You have earned the rank of Master, First Class. 14:39:36 (I knew that getting all points wouldn't be easy, it's always like that in adventur games ;)) 14:49:11 <{^Raven^}> (the last lousy point) 14:49:37 <{^Raven^}> congrats on beating the game 14:50:45 ty 14:51:36 it was fun :) 14:53:58 <{^Raven^}> 15:33:46 -!- nooga has joined. 15:33:50 hi 15:35:49 i have an idea for an image based esolang:> 15:36:31 wanna hear? 15:43:17 shoot :) 15:45:25 brb 15:46:25 em 15:46:26 :> 15:46:39 i thought about it 15:47:43 and i think i've invented just a image notation that can be applied to a number of esolangs 15:47:55 the thing is... 15:49:58 to calculate delta between two pixels 15:50:18 and depending on that delta select the instruction to execute 15:50:43 wait a sec, i'll introdouce a little example 15:54:36 d = delta = abs((R1-R2+G1-G2+B1-B2)/3) 15:54:36 for 15:54:36 d = 0 : NOP 15:54:36 0 8 16 15:54:38 etc. 15:55:04 for brainfuck 16:06:51 -!- Freya has joined. 16:08:55 -!- Freya has changed nick to nooga_. 16:08:57 oh so you introduced some freedom so that you can choose colors for pixels to allow your code to look like photos and such :) 16:09:03 yes 16:09:18 sounds cool 16:10:20 and such image can be compiled into brainfuck, befunge or maybe other language ... 16:10:50 I'd want to suggest that a large d is also a nop 16:11:17 then when you need to make a large color difference at the edges of things in your picture it won't disturb the code 16:12:16 good idea 16:18:47 heh 16:19:49 -!- jix has joined. 16:19:58 cholera, nie nie mogles gdzie indziej?! 16:20:11 woo.. ups, excuse me, wrong window :> 16:20:18 hrhr 16:20:19 moin 16:20:22 hi jix 16:20:27 hey 16:20:52 is that a sort of afrikaans? 16:20:59 moin? 16:21:02 no 16:21:06 hrhr? 16:21:06 what nooga_ said :) 16:21:37 no 16:21:41 thats Polish :D 16:21:47 ok :D 16:22:07 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:22:20 i heard that Polish is one of the most difficult languages on the earth ;p 16:22:46 Dutch is pretty hard too I heard :) 16:23:10 brainfuck on the other hand, is a pretty easy language 16:24:33 german has a weird grammar 16:24:37 but coding difficulty is inversely proportional to the language complexity 16:24:59 nooga_: no.. 16:25:22 ? 16:25:27 malbolge is very complex 16:25:30 -!- nooga_ has changed nick to nooga. 16:25:46 and its verrrrry difficuilt to code in it 16:26:09 but C# is rather more complex than malbolge, and it's fairly easy to code in it 16:26:43 wait a minute, I must check that malbolge 16:26:45 ;] 16:28:33 it's a programming language from hell ;) 16:28:44 FROM MICROSOFT 16:28:49 oops, capslock :> 16:28:56 no, it's not THAT bad 16:29:23 i dont like M$ but i like C# :> 16:29:34 it's good whan you don't have time to play 16:29:49 what's so good about C#? (never used it) 16:29:54 make an idea, code, finish 16:30:02 without any bigger problems 16:30:18 hah ruby has one step less make an idea (write it down using ruby code because you start thinking in ruby code), finish 16:30:41 I just wanted to mention ruby and python :) 16:30:57 umm 16:31:20 but C# syntax is quite comfortable 16:31:33 i also like perl, but it's another story 16:31:36 ruby's syntax is really nice 16:31:50 perl is too cryptic for a non-esoteric langauge 16:32:10 i heard an opinion that perl is a big esolang :D 16:32:12 perl is really useless... 16:32:56 perl is old 16:33:09 and perl code is unmaintainable 16:33:38 nooga: c is old too 16:33:58 C++ > C 16:34:14 C# > C++ > C :> 16:34:24 Ruby > * muahahahaaha ;) 16:34:28 no way, C++ code compiles in any platform :) 16:34:40 and is not proprietary 16:34:49 obj-c is nice too 16:35:11 it's a bit more dynamic than c++ 16:36:02 and there is obj-c++ which allows you too mix c++ and obj-c (and c) 16:36:09 :D 16:36:13 there's also D 16:36:33 i really like obj-c's memory management 16:37:01 that's something i'm missing in c++ 16:37:18 I just use std::vectors in C++ these days, no worries and always reliable 16:37:49 malloc and new and free are horrible 16:37:50 Aardwolf: i'm talking about [object retain] and [object release] 16:38:03 o ic 16:38:38 if you use some objects there and there and there it helps a lot avoiding memory leaks/freeing of used memory 16:39:13 it's like manual reference counting 16:39:54 i'd like doing this with c++ templates 16:40:02 or adding a method to all c++ classes 16:40:44 because c++ is faster than obj-c because obj-c has to do method lookups for every method call 16:41:04 it's as dynamic as ruby if you don't count the c types like int etc... 16:41:21 but the implementation of the lookups is a bit more low-level so it's still faster than ruby 16:41:23 -!- wildhalcyon_ has joined. 16:41:29 Aardwolf! 16:41:30 moin wildhalcyon 16:41:33 MOIN! 16:41:36 <-- happy 16:41:39 afternoon 16:42:05 O_O 16:42:05 How's everything going? 16:42:26 fine ty 16:42:34 How's brainloller? 16:42:44 it's still laughing out loud 16:42:46 :D 16:43:16 Good to hear 16:43:43 I had an idea for it.. but Im not sure how crazy you would be about it 16:43:44 it has a better spec and a better interpreter than yesterday so it's going fine :) 16:43:59 o rly? 16:43:59 ha 16:44:09 C# has got the best MM and GC 16:44:20 i mean .NET 16:44:24 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek 16:44:30 don't say that foul word :o 16:44:46 Suppose the entire instruction set fit in a single color space - like all the instructions were Red instructions 16:45:16 Add two more instructions to flip up and down between the color spaces, so you could theoretically encode 3 instructions per pixel 16:45:40 Add that to a language like SNUSP and you've got yourself an esolang to be PROUD of 16:45:49 and if you dont want to do it. HA. I will 16:46:06 wildhalcyon_: look above, how do you like my idea with deltas ? 16:46:18 Well, each pixel is 24 bit (32 if you add A channel but that's too annoying to edit in painting programs) and since there are only 10 instructions (4-bit instructions) you could get up to 6 instructions per pixel :) 16:47:47 Aardwolf: even if you include the two switch instructions? 16:48:12 nooga: I like the idea, but I don't like the equation 16:48:16 with 4 bit you can get up to 16 instructions 16:48:22 wildhalcyon_: why not? :> 16:48:52 try d = delta = [abs(R1-R2) + abs(G1-G2) + abs(B1-B2)] mod n maybe? 16:49:50 hm 16:49:55 You could still div by 3, but that could allow for non-integer values for the delta 16:50:02 unless its just integer arithmetic 16:50:24 hey if you make the n in the formula equal to the amount of instructions, you get a lot of freedom 16:50:29 then you can literally make almost any image 16:50:46 exactly ;-) 16:50:54 because then if there are say 10 instructions, a color difference of 0, 10, 20, 30 are all the same instruction :) 16:51:08 small color differences on the order of n per 2^24 gives a wide range of acceptable small noise values 16:51:45 You could also try abs((65536*R1+256*G1+B1) - (65536*R2+256*G2+B2)) mod n 16:52:04 :> 16:53:11 hehe 16:53:18 that might work better for a larger instruction set 16:54:12 right 16:55:20 good idea 16:57:24 hy 16:57:37 or just 65536*R+256*G+B mod 10 (for 10 instructions), then a brainfuck to image converter could take an original source image and modify the pixels a little bit so that they all have the correct value after mod 10, you will barely see the difference with the original image 16:57:42 what are those lemons on the esolang wiki? ;p 16:57:52 they are limes :) 16:58:02 whatever 16:58:04 lemons are yellow 16:58:23 i don't se a connection betweens limes and esolangs 16:58:25 :0 16:58:28 me neither 16:58:30 an esoteric fruit? 16:58:35 but it looks nice at leats 16:58:49 maybe someone can design some logo ;p 16:58:51 there are porbably more esoteric fruits than lime 16:58:55 a sophisticated converter would probably implement a function to modify different colors up/down depending on local content 16:59:04 Im not sure WHAT about the local content, but something 16:59:15 i thought about that 16:59:18 so 16:59:53 i tried to invant a encryption algorhitm that will use images 16:59:57 invent 17:00:24 and that idea with delta came to my head ;p 17:00:56 its not really an encryption algorithm though 17:01:10 thats right ;p 17:01:33 In my medical imaging class I was devising a befunge program I call The Diggler. 17:01:45 nice name 17:01:46 It travels in a straight line, encrypting/mangling whatever is in its path 17:02:21 but it can help to smuggle some text in image 17:03:14 Mind if I make a new language that uses this formula 65536*R+256*G+B mod 11? (8 bf instructions, 2 rotation instructions, 1 nop) 17:03:21 It would be interesting to devise a rewritable bf variant that did the same thing. Probably MUCH harder considering how big an encryption algo in BF would need to be 17:03:22 and has the same specs as brainloller for the rest 17:03:40 I'd call it braincopter 17:04:24 Mind if I implement a SNUSP derivative of Brainloller that uses SNUSP code with the 3 color space idea above? 17:04:39 braindaub 17:05:29 Now all that remains, is finding a nice computer rendered image of 1482x1480 pixels that shows a fantasy setting similar to that of Lost Kingdom 17:05:57 brb 17:06:06 You could include an braincopter-decoder which replaces the image with the brainloller equivalent 17:06:21 will do 17:06:35 almost no modification to the interpreter is needed :D 17:06:48 only the bftobmp translator is a bit harder 17:07:15 how convenient! 17:08:15 {^Raven^}, have you got a large image that represents the world of Lost Kingdom, that I could use? :) 17:11:20 only 2 lines of the brainloller interpreter had to be changed to make it a braincopter interpreter! 17:11:25 err make that 1 line! 17:11:53 darn no 12, I also need to include changed numbers in the switch statement 17:12:18 heh 17:12:34 i think that Lost Kingdom was written in BFBASIC 17:12:48 <{^Raven^}> nooga: it was 17:12:52 it's almost impossible to code such thing in pure bf 17:13:56 <{^Raven^}> it would definately be a non-trivial excercise to debug 17:13:58 yeah but once you have the LK brainfuck source it's easy to convert it to almost anything 17:19:11 Anyone remember the name of the befunge derivative that had commands for picking up elements above and below the pointer? 17:19:20 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: I have no images 17:20:40 g2g 17:24:57 hmhm 17:25:49 cool 17:25:54 thanks wildhalcyon 17:26:28 now i'm able to write an image based esolang 17:28:10 yay! 17:28:29 We'll still need a nice esolang -> audio spec 17:34:01 There's an audio watermarking algorithm thats resistant to compression (suitable for mp3s) but it doesn't encode a very large watermark 17:35:29 http://ecwww.eurecom.fr/~doerr/icip2002Miller.pdf 17:41:55 pap 17:42:01 i mean g2g :> 17:42:05 bye 17:42:08 -!- nooga has quit. 17:44:15 lol 17:44:20 Ive g2g too, later folks 17:44:28 -!- wildhalcyon_ has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]"). 17:44:28 *looks at his keyboard to see the distance between the g and the p key* 17:44:32 cya 18:29:34 it coulda been some kinda freaky glitch 18:41:50 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:25:03 -!- kipple has joined. 20:32:30 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit). 20:36:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:06:59 {^Raven^}, here's Lost Kingdom again, but now as braincopter source and with a forest image as background: http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/braincopter/lk.png 21:07:33 The code is pretty much invisible, but is really in the pixels :) 21:11:08 ccol 21:11:10 argh 21:11:26 i have to sleep now canÄz zype anymore--- 21:12:04 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 22:41:25 -!- calamari has joined. 22:41:41 hi 22:57:25 hi 22:58:29 Aardwolf: are you Adrian Chiang? 22:58:38 no, I'm Lode Vandevenne 22:59:15 ahh, ok.. they emailed me and I wasn't sure I if knew them or not :) 22:59:46 just had a (possibly) interesting idea, though 22:59:57 I might be interested too :D 23:00:09 I could have wiki files that were symbolic links to other webpages 23:00:29 like, you think you're in the wiki but you're actually on another site? 23:00:47 so, for example Lost Kingdom wouldn't have to be copied to the wiki (1) it's huge (2) copyright violation 23:01:21 so instead I'd just save a link to the Lost_Kingdom source code 23:01:39 I hope that those symbolic links won't encourage people to use it too much and not make any more public domain content anymore 23:01:56 wouldn't be writable, for obvious reasons.. but would expand the code base quite a bit without killing the wiki 23:02:27 hmm, I wonder if that'd be a problem 23:03:14 Well as long as it's obvious that it's a link to another website it's fine, I guess? 23:04:14 perhaps it's rude.. but I don't think there is a law against it :) riaa can get away with taking down links because ppl know they can't put up enough $ to defend against any lawsuits 23:04:47 so... you got enough $? :D 23:04:57 no, I'll take down links if ppl complain ;) 23:05:50 or even better would be to redirect to a explanation message 23:06:17 so what would such a symbolic link look like, for example the Lost Kingdom source code? 23:06:30 well currently files look like this: 23:06:31 And will it use bandwidth of the external website everytime someone views the wiki page? 23:06:36 * filename 23:06:54
program
23:07:27 re:bandwidth: no, it won't use bandwidth unless the file was viewed 23:08:12 it would need to be used one when the file was created (to get the size).. so I can imagine something like: 23:08:43 * -> filename 23:09:03
url\nsize
23:09:29 -> might need to be tweaked, that's just off the top of my head 23:10:00 it's nice in that it starts with -, usually reserved for program options 23:10:14 also > is for redriection of stdout 23:10:20 So basically, it would be like a link that can be put inside the article instead of at external resources, and the size will be shown? :) 23:10:25 yeah 23:10:37 but when you use the "file" it loads from the exteral site 23:11:02 oh yeah I see, I understand why some people might complain :) 23:11:48 perhaps it could be loaded once 23:12:03 then after that it would be in memory and never downloaded again 23:12:11 (at least for that session) 23:12:52 that seems okay 23:15:01 I'm just glad to have a shell and hosting with no bandwidth limits for $5 a month :) 23:15:16 wow, how did you get that? :o 23:15:28 csoft.net, directory account.. still offered 23:15:57 I'm looking to have some webscpace once my univ page is gone, but I'll look for a Belgian company I think :) 23:16:20 wow, 650mb space.. thought it was 250mb, guess they upgraded us :) 23:16:27 wow :) 23:16:44 * {^Raven^} hosts his own domain 23:16:56 hi raven 23:17:01 <{^Raven^}> hi calamari 23:17:03 Well yeah I hope to have my own .be domain one day :) 23:17:09 see my scheming to use your bandwidth? 23:17:18 <{^Raven^}> at least i get to see the stats 23:17:38 does it seem underhanded, or is it okay? 23:18:08 <{^Raven^}> for me it's fine as long as it's not using 100% bandwidth 100% of the time 23:19:34 I began to see that the wiki was great for storing experiments and small programs.. but for huge pre-made stuff, it was not very appropriate (i.e. almost anything compiled with bfbasic :) 23:20:00 <{^Raven^}> hehe, most bfbasic programs are quite small - usually 23:20:55 <{^Raven^}> it's not like you will be stealing bandwidth for silly things like images 23:20:55 glad to hear it, although I'm not sure I believe it.. :) 23:21:16 unless I add brainloller, lol 23:21:35 <{^Raven^}> and as long as the original page is linked and the source is listed then you're not pretending that it's yours 23:22:01 <{^Raven^}> calamari: they're not pictures - they're programs ;) 23:22:25 * {^Raven^} has lk.png as his backdrop 23:22:41 {^Raven^}, : seen the Braincopter lk.png already? :) 23:22:45 great idea.. :) 23:23:02 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: not yet 23:23:15 http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/braincopter/ 23:23:28 it looks like a normal image of a forest tho, it's actually boring when you can't really see the code :) 23:23:34 raven: haha that's an aawesome background 23:24:14 (btw the forest picture might be copyrighted) 23:24:55 (it would be much nicer to have a lost-kingdom related, computer rendered image, rendered at the correct size) 23:25:23 <{^Raven^}> so the code is stored as delta variances within the image? 23:25:34 no, each pixel is a command on it's own 23:25:52 the command is gotten as (65536*R+256*G+B) mod 11 (because there are 11 commands including the NOP) 23:25:57 btw, is it supposed to be Enchanced rather than Enhanced?\ 23:26:22 enchanced is not an english word 23:26:26 according to google :) 23:26:33 <{^Raven^}> it's Enhanced 23:26:52 <{^Raven^}> (it would need to be, it's almost 1000 times bigger than the original) 23:27:02 hehe 23:27:26 <{^Raven^}> Ardvark: that you pulled it off (the forest piccy) pretty impressive 23:27:28 raven: btw did you enter the compo? 23:27:32 btw I finished the "short description" verson too, it was just too easy because of the maps I drew, but I was stuck on the cliff without compass once ;) 23:27:38 it's Aardwolf btw 23:27:55 <{^Raven^}> oops, i knew i'd do that at least once 23:28:11 what happens if you press an a and then the tab button? 23:28:15 {^Raven^}, {^Raven^} 23:28:24 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf, 23:28:31 :D 23:29:19 <{^Raven^}> calamari: My game is almost finished, will enter it in a day or two 23:29:21 settings, preferences, input box, nick completion suffix 23:29:41 raven: oh, did he extend the deadline? 23:30:06 <{^Raven^}> calamari: yes, deadline is 15th of Sept 23:30:07 calamari: 23:30:11 yeah a : is better than a , 23:30:54 what sort of game is it? 23:31:29 <{^Raven^}> kind of sci-fi text adventure, possibly in the lost kingdom universe on earth a thousand years after the war 23:32:44 in the BF version, is it intentional that there are just 10 items so that every item ID is a single letter? I ask because I noticed it sees 10 as a different value than 1 (unlike it seeing throw as the same as t), and because of the 55 example with the dwarf 23:32:57 *a single digit I mean 23:37:40 <{^Raven^}> it was intentional to simplify the parser, there were only 10 objects in the original game so it seemed logical to use 0-9 23:38:21 <{^Raven^}> for the parser, only the first character and the last digit are significant, everything else is ignored 23:38:37 Oh, I see 23:38:52 were there a lot of modifications needed in the original BASIC code, to make it work for BF? 23:39:22 <{^Raven^}> a few modifications were needed to BFBASIC 23:39:42 <{^Raven^}> but the game was completely written from scratch in BFBASIC 23:40:10 nice 23:40:40 to print something like "99/100", I guess there are conversions needed from char value to decimal output, does BFBASIC handle that sort of things automatically? 23:40:44 <{^Raven^}> the original source was 2.74Kb of BBC BASIC, the BFBASIC source is over 80Kb long 23:40:54 whoa 23:41:38 <{^Raven^}> it's only 2,688 lines of code 23:42:34 <{^Raven^}> to print 99/100 you would use: PRINT score;"/";maxscore 23:44:04 <{^Raven^}> BFBASIC is a very powerful language 23:44:09 wow, the BBCBASIC code looks very obfuscated :D 23:44:30 <{^Raven^}> the BFBASIC code? 23:45:11 The file LostKingdom.bcc from LostKingdom17.zip 23:46:20 <{^Raven^}> it is, even if you can load it into BBC BASIC and LIST it (to see the tokens and stuff) 23:47:03 <{^Raven^}> the game text is compressed and encrypted to about 75% original size 23:47:55 I'm testing the bbcbasic version (in Wine emulator), now I realize how different it is from the BF version 23:49:40 <{^Raven^}> calamari: want to know some stats of the new game? 23:50:52 <{^Raven^}> it's a lot more limited but was still the best game by far entered into the 2004 comp 23:51:05 yeah in 2.7KB... :) 23:51:10 <{^Raven^}> nothing else came close in depth and complexity 23:52:26 <{^Raven^}> have you seen: http://jonripley.com/bb4w/software/MiniLogo.html 23:52:50 <{^Raven^}> it is a complete implementation of turtle graphics in one-line of BBC BASIC and only 250 bytes lobg 23:53:58 cool :) 23:56:18 <{^Raven^}> my game for the 2005 comp is significantly more advanced then Lost Kingdom 23:57:57 is it also 2.7KB in size? 23:59:14 <{^Raven^}> 2.4kb of game code with a 7.9Kb data file (so far) 23:59:38 <{^Raven^}> (as we can have an 8K data file this year)