< 1127001607 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there can be multiple loops < 1127001616 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 2 1? < 1127001633 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 2 3 5 8? < 1127001640 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem. Sorry. < 1127001643 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1127001653 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884? < 1127001658 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. < 1127001678 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari? What is EsoFunk? < 1127001693 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a new funk band < 1127001703 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were trying to decide on a bf/befunge hybrid language for the eso os < 1127001710 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. If an expansion instruction were added to SMETATA or SMATINY, would that language become Turing-complete? < 1127001712 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kinda fizzled away < 1127001744 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it did inspire bos :) < 1127001750 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari: Something like path or snusp? < 1127001763 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iHope: expansion instruction? < 1127001764 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, "esos" sounds like a nice name for an esoteric operating system :-) < 1127001767 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: dunno, I'd have to look at those langs < 1127001777 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes: Add a new instruction at the end of the program. < 1127001838 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For SMETATA, I think it just needs a halting instruction (say, any time it reaches Step 0 or Step -1). < 1127001846 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: yeah, more like path than snusp I think < 1127001869 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, does arbitrary memory make anything Turing-complete? < 1127001870 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core SNUSP is my favorite, right now. It just feels.. good. < 1127001871 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: it wasn't two dimension yet, though < 1127001881 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: not necessarily < 1127001889 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: arbitrary isn't infinite after all... < 1127001900 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: the classical example is a finite automaton coupled with a single stack < 1127001934 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack is infinite but the automaton can only accept context free grammars, not arbitrary decidable languages. < 1127001943 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammars -> languages < 1127001957 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iow, it's not turing complete. < 1127001992 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im having trouble implementing jumping in my fungeoid, trying to decide how to deal with connectivity < 1127002075 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It essentially has a "window" on the stack that cannot grow or shrink, and the top of the window can't move below the top of the stack. < 1127002089 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, that'd be a great thing to directly put inside a language. < 1127002278 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language will be way too slow if its not easy enough to determine connectivity between two cells < 1127002356 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, should popping empty stack return 0 or cause an error? < 1127002359 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is better? < 1127002367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error, I think... < 1127002386 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way, yeah < 1127002403 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just leave whatever you're popping to as it already is. < 1127002414 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that might be good too < 1127002423 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh, too many choices.. < 1127002449 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... < 1127002450 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: add jump-points and rails. When moving off a jump-point, you follow the rail to its end. I'm not sure what this'll actually do, but it might do something :-) < 1127002489 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, right now, I'm just implementing it as a topologically independent instruction. I.E. as far as jumping is concerned, two points are ALWAYS connected < 1127002516 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... sounds good :-) < 1127002549 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the earlier ideas I had included wormholes, but the syntax for definining them would be difficult at best, so I dumped them. It still might be possible with the A-Z instructions. < 1127002815 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about jumpwalls, which are jumped over such that you land just after the next jumpwall? < 1127002866 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the ; instruction in befunge? Won't work for my language with the current design. < 1127002991 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't see a ; instruction. < 1127003055 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its in the funge-98 specification < 1127003064 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nothing executed until next semicolon" < 1127003099 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :-0 < 1127003104 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm I mean :-) < 1127003162 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders where the java console went, and if chatzilla kidnapped it < 1127003220 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidnaps chatzilla < 1127003279 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks.... except I still can't find the Java console... < 1127003324 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm retyping out the mini-spec on the topological spaces. I'll post the link when I finish it and upload it < 1127003517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION javaconsoles himself < 1127003534 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1127003540 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1127003546 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved one problem i had.. < 1127003555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1127003560 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that? < 1127003569 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in this language design < 1127003582 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to tell, because that would reveal about the language < 1127003600 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm. That in itself is a clue. < 1127003607 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh! < 1127003609 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1127003636 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-67-172-99-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127003643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1127003647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the secret is out < 1127003652 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1127003677 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secret? :-o < 1127003690 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shhh < 1127003721 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1127003749 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether this is a coincidence or a minor prank :-) < 1127003780 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1127003815 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a coincidence, don't worry < 1127003819 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a minor wtf at this website < 1127003820 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't concern you anyway < 1127003826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like we would tell you if it did < 1127003826 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1127003833 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/anyway/in any way < 1127003886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i were you, i'd just pretend nothing happened < 1127003929 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. /me listens to the crickets chirping instead ;-) < 1127004008 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]" < 1127004017 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1127004064 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/colorspaces.txt anyone have any comments for me? < 1127004125 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-67-172-99-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127004158 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shhhh) < 1127004197 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(argh: yes, I'll use a verticon) o_o < 1127004223 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You too ihope < 1127004230 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, a sinhgle loop seems fine.. implemented bf < 1127004265 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be able to use a single switch statement too (no if's) < 1127004294 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Okay: how do I get EsoShell to work? :-) < 1127004391 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, just go here.. it should work http://esoshell.kidsquid.com/ < 1127004397 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You crazy fool calamari!! muahahahhahaaaaaaa < 1127004404 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION got Java to work under FF < 1127004412 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF? < 1127004416 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFox < 1127004440 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start: applet not initialized. < 1127004540 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yay < 1127004554 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that usually means you're using ie < 1127004556 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im using esoshell in FF < 1127004581 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...But I'm not :-) < 1127004581 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get EsoShell to work in FF though < 1127004595 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Mac OS X... should I try Safari? < 1127004634 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: it uses java 1.4.. wonder what version os x comes with < 1127004708 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. Firefox only recognizes 1.3.1. < 1127004731 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should cut back then < 1127004743 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can probably make do with 1.2 functions < 1127004759 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it might work in Safari... < 1127004820 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried making a 1.1 compliant awt version but it was horrible < 1127004874 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how that guy did it in javascript.. < 1127004893 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. DNS borked < 1127004915 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript? < 1127004916 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should probably remove my WIP from the wiki page since I dont have anyone to be collaborative on it with. < 1127004943 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: http://www.masswerk.at/jsuix/ < 1127004970 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: something similar in javascript.. not free though < 1127005015 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one adanvatage to the way he is doing it is that you don't actually have a real cursor.. maybe I should do that too < 1127005192 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute. CRITICAL ERROR: The file exists! < 1127005300 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that's a cool language, by Keymaker :) < 1127005325 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1127005326 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw Keymaker, what's your real name so I can give you better credit < 1127005333 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for unnecessary) < 1127005336 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language < 1127005337 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1127005342 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice that you like it < 1127005391 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you can find the real name from friends-of-brainfuck list < 1127005433 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, how do I *create* a file in EsoShell? :-) < 1127005460 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope echo "whatever" > filename < 1127005469 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1127005478 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wah! is f-o-bf down?! < 1127005555 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.drawkcab gniphce tsuj s'taC .raed hO < 1127005561 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I exit? :-) < 1127005566 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I searched my mail for "keymaker" but found nothing :) < 1127005590 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll e-mail the name for you then.. < 1127005727 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, done < 1127005731 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone get a chance to look at the file link I posted above? < 1127005737 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127005762 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any comments or profanity for me? < 1127005781 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What file? :-) < 1127005792 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like, you can right a f*ckf*ck program that prints the comments out for me? < 1127005814 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/colorspaces.txt < 1127005818 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that file < 1127005984 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1127006001 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh: EsoShell just sorta conked out. < 1127006023 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keymaker: cool, thanks.. now I can give you proper credit :) < 1127006037 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what were you doing? < 1127006053 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, credit.. where? :) < 1127006071 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: there is an unnecessary interpreter in esoshell < 1127006077 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cool! < 1127006080 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta try < 1127006107 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it from scratch, but used the error messages out of your original < 1127006136 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, uh, I wondered just what "mount" did, then played around with cat... < 1127006219 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: do you remember what mount command you tried? I'd like to fix any bugs :) < 1127006236 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mount wiki README" :-) < 1127006261 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, nice. unnecessary interpreter itself is easy, but can't think of an esolang where unnecessary interpreter could be written.. < 1127006276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What esolangs open files? < 1127006294 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know none that could open files < 1127006304 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge 98 can < 1127006307 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make brainf*** able to open files. < 1127006322 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@dialup-4.240.69.214.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127006326 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, preferably not < 1127006334 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's < 1127006340 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? :-) < 1127006349 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files are useless! < 1127006365 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numberix can open files < 1127006369 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PESOIX? < 1127006373 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- new < 1127006389 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just stick all the files in one big chuck in negative memory. < 1127006401 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1127006418 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you'd need an actual filesystem of course :-) < 1127006447 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: weird.. I did did that mount and it worked fine < 1127006478 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I did `cat "abc" > wiki:a' < 1127006484 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use braintwist - put the files in the data array, and move to the files using the code array < 1127006526 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the last time, i don't want to open files! aaargh lol < 1127006529 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a brainf*** interpreter that works with PESOIX? < 1127006553 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it wasn't the mount... I think. The applet just failed to load. < 1127006562 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: weird < 1127006570 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But its not opening files... its just... manipulating the data space. Hmm.. might be a project I look into... < 1127006617 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt < 1127006623 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: if a program freezes you can try ctrl-c < 1127006649 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgep: bos implements esoapi 1.0, but not the full pesoix < 1127006660 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... okay :-) < 1127006692 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a lot of hacks in there.. need to take them out and use real stuff like signals, I know < 1127006733 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one make an API call? < 1127006745 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started out as a shell, and it's getting more and more like an os, so I need to rework a lot of stuff with it < 1127006751 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: in esoapi? < 1127006761 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Yeah :-) < 1127006771 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output 00 (nul) < 1127006780 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1127006793 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the next char is the function < 1127006797 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... is output a comma or a period? < 1127006805 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :period < 1127006810 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1127006816 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1127006856 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay; my Macintosh skills are limited. I'll run over to Windows... < 1127006862 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]" < 1127007091 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could make something that is lynx compatible :) < 1127007381 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1127007540 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1127007731 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentlemen, which one looks better: < 1127007731 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1127007731 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ()()()() < 1127007731 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (((()))) < 1127007732 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( < 1127007734 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1127007738 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( < 1127007738 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : )()()()( < 1127007740 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ))))(((( < 1127007742 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1127007750 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as...? < 1127007757 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1127007768 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the language i'm designing < 1127007773 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the first better < 1127007778 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do too, I think < 1127007782 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the name of the language? < 1127007791 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1127007793 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's code < 1127007795 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1127007798 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Still evil. < 1127007821 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll posts specs probably later today < 1127007834 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since i revealed this much i can tell a bit; < 1127007845 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) and ( are used as loops, the brainfuck way < 1127007866 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory is a stack, that is accessible the brainfuck way < 1127007884 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like one can increase and decrease the current value of stack < 1127007887 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topmost value < 1127007908 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions are selected by pattern of () < 1127007916 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for example ((((())))) < 1127007923 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmkay < 1127007926 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't yet selected all of them < 1127008055 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait.. < 1127008070 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have another design idea for this, gotta think < 1127008123 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck ;-) < 1127008689 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: I'd love a copy of that article... I can't find it online either < 1127008706 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whats your email telemakh0s? < 1127008754 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, can you point me to a link to OWL? < 1127008763 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twobitsprite@gmail.com < 1127008841 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent < 1127008847 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, thanks < 1127008859 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://it.geocities.com/tonibin/ < 1127008894 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is used usually more, push or pop? < 1127008919 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say push < 1127008926 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127008941 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: I would imagine they would be used about equally, unless you either plan on abandonning things at the bottom of the stack, or trying to top things from an empty stack... < 1127008954 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/top/pop/ < 1127008958 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1127008958 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push(a) push(b) add pop(c) < 1127008966 0 :heatsink!i=cirodrig@64.5.82.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1127008975 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see how you use one less pop for each push in this case? < 1127009000 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, many languages pop an operation as a side effect of their main purpose, such as output < 1127009001 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: ahh... but things are still popped, the pop is just implied in the "add" < 1127009015 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1127009020 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1127009031 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just thinking..) < 1127009045 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's correct, but I assumed he meant simple popping < 1127009062 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can see your point < 1127009090 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're dealing with a language which has registers and a stack, you need to push and pop to/from the stack and the register to do ANYTHING with the values < 1127009098 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you WILL be pushing and popping just about equally < 1127009105 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you meant in terms of which ones a programmer would explicitly use, in which case push definately... < 1127009111 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1127009148 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if kemaker is trying to make a bf with a stack... < 1127009161 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ke/key < 1127009171 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1127009178 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't my purpose < 1127009201 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, darn, that would have been interesting < 1127009229 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with bf as a language for use in G/A, is that you have to ensure that [] are matched and that you don't have more <'s than you do >'s... < 1127009260 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just ignore unmatced braces and assume the "tape" wraps arround... < 1127009261 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but that can just be considered a lethal mutation < 1127009303 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of mutations that can cause unmatched [] is small with respect to the total number of mutations < 1127009311 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true..., but if you only have 8 possible states for each element of the program, and each state is equally probable, you'll end up with a _lot_ of fatal mutations... < 1127009355 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... if you mutate a single atom of the program, you have a 1/4 chance of it being either [ or ]... < 1127009367 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good point < 1127009386 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't really thought of that < 1127009403 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And BF has a LOT of [ and ] < 1127009438 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in fact you argue that [ and ] are the two most important instructions, as they provide for branching... < 1127009449 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ^could^ argue < 1127009456 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't disagree < 1127009478 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesnt mean they aren't mutable < 1127009507 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that... I'm just trying to figure out a way to mutate them, with out it resulting in mostly fatal mutations < 1127009509 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the language isn't rewritable, you always know which [ goes to which ], which is equivalent to knowing how long your loop is < 1127009529 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can either A) make mutating your braces VERY unlikely < 1127009547 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or B) remove the braces and replace them with "skip n" instructions < 1127009549 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make it so that mutatin one brace causes the matching one to mutate? < 1127009563 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, hadn't thought of that either < 1127009578 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "skip n" would work, because you have to be able to "skipback n" too... < 1127009596 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you implement the language with a function stack < 1127009616 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a counter that counts to n, then goes back, counts to n, then goes back < 1127009668 0 :CXI!n=Sanity@dialup-104.88.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1127009724 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that n needs to be unbounded < 1127009898 0 :telemakh0s!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... n would be bounded "to the end of the program" < 1127009917 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I meant is you can't set a default to the maximum size of a loop < 1127009975 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a string-matching idea in the paper too, for dealing with goto-less loops (which is inherantly what a brace-matching mechanism is) < 1127010184 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im wrestling with whether or not to include my color definition in my esolang. < 1127010267 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I dont, everything is one big topological space. I can use an operator such as # to say "STOP, wrap here" and everything works fine. < 1127010354 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh.. it's suddenly 4 am again.. < 1127010360 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better get to bed.. < 1127010365 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good "night" < 1127010368 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love when time plays tricks < 1127010373 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1127010377 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1127010379 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This quote is unrelated to this context." < 1127010388 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night.. look forward to seeing a finished product soon < 1127010393 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well shoot. He left < 1127013973 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII is an abomination < 1127014499 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be safe to say that Network-Headache doesn't have an implementation? < 1127014519 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont think it does < 1127015060 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1127016803 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody still up? < 1127017193 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is < 1127017296 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel like looking at a confusing half-written spec for me? < 1127017771 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/alt_spec.txt < 1127018895 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worth noting that UTF-8 is compatible with ASCII characters 32-127 < 1127019121 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, that's what I was getting at with Unicode being based on ASCII < 1127019380 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest adding, after the "Stack Elements" section, a description of the stack, which is the other datatype for your language. < 1127019402 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what happens on an access to an invalid stack location or pop of an empty stack. < 1127019404 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I probably should. The stack is pretty novel, as far as stack-based esolangs are concerns < 1127019456 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, balanced ternary, cool < 1127019482 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented an esoteric non-programming language which had balanced base-6 numbers :) < 1127019501 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know there was a name for it < 1127019522 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's gotta be pretty cool. I've been a big fan of balanced ternary. < 1127019541 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even wanted to write a bf varient that used it, called trittyfuck. < 1127019546 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1127019567 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But bf is base-independent < 1127019621 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be possible if each data cell is a balanced ternary digit < 1127019794 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a way in which the use of balanced ternary would actually change the behavior of bf. < 1127019803 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really wouldn't < 1127019810 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence my lack of creating a language as such < 1127019843 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you try to pop an element from an empty stack, it pops a null string. I think that's the most esoteric approach. < 1127019865 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for maybe popping the string "ribbit", which would be pretty crazy too. < 1127019898 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be more esoteric to make pop-from-empty-stack read from stdin :) < 1127019913 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pretty crazy too, you're right < 1127019926 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. So the starting state of the stack is an infinite stack of the empty string. < 1127019935 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, exactly. < 1127020048 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that those aren't rotated when the stack is rotated < 1127020067 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't notice the stack rotation functions. < 1127020096 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kinda cuts down the beauty of it. < 1127020100 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They rotate the entire stack forward/backward, so it acts as a circularly linked list < 1127020102 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, yes. < 1127020183 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think its beautiful though < 1127020258 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does this do? < 1127020266 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v{abc}@ < 1127020271 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ^ < 1127020299 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enters an infinite loop of pushing a's (10) onto the stack. < 1127020304 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127020325 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the single character } < 1127020343 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably specify that all sides of the program have an implicit # associated with them. < 1127020361 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127020367 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been debating that. Im thinking that { and } should be interchangable, so {abc} is the same as }abc{ < 1127020401 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be the same as {abc{ and }abc} < 1127020423 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you traverse {abc} backwards, does it push cba? < 1127020451 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. It should. < 1127020458 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. I'd rather not have it produce an error < 1127020489 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1127020616 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you refresh, you'll see the updated spec that reflects the helpful comments and suggestions that you've given me :-) Thank you < 1127020681 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1127020755 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other suggestions you've got? < 1127020793 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was originally very keen on color spaces, but the string manipulation is a lot more fun and different - like a 2D muriel language :-) < 1127020841 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not clear to me what happens when a number is interpreted as a string or vice versa < 1127020868 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay. That's probably something I need to be more explicit on then < 1127020947 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, if you're performing any sort of arithmetic on it, its a number (because it doesnt make sense to add or multiply characters). If you're concatenating, outputting, etc. its a character string. < 1127020987 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, its only a string if the command manipulates bytes < 1127021101 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it a number in ascii base-10 notation, or in binary base-32 notation, or what? < 1127021149 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, are leading zeros stripped, and are numbers right-justified? < 1127021176 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading zeros are not stripped. The numbers are right-justified however. I commented on the leading zeros portion already < 1127021180 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even wrote an example program for removing them. < 1127021238 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if I subtract 100 from 100 I will get 000. < 1127021245 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127021258 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses the binary representation of the character string < 1127021315 0 :Arrogant!i=Arrogant@95.orlando-09rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127021326 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "abc" is 97*256^2+98*256+99 < 1127021328 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so all numbers will print as a sequence of the character # < 1127021335 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1127021346 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's base 256, not base 2 < 1127021369 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right, sorry < 1127021385 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logic functions uses bits though < 1127021422 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes a difference because unicode doesn't specify the number of bytes a character occupies. < 1127021450 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the internal representation were UTF-32 you might expect a base 2**32 interpretation of numbers. < 1127021522 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned the characters occupying a byte of space, but after reading the paragraph, it is unclear. < 1127021608 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, this isn't the official spec, just a sort of.. sandbox spec I guess you could say < 1127021621 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at how all the pieces fit together before I carve it in stone and write an implementation < 1127021635 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good way to do it. < 1127021666 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, that's where my desire to remove ASCII from the picture stems. So many ASCII characters are not printable.. I don't see a reason for including them in the language specification. < 1127021771 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think its looking pretty good now. I'll try to polish the spec and see how it looks tomorrow, but I won't have time to write up a spec this week. I've promised my professor that I'd have my research program running by Friday, so I'll be pretty exhausted doing that. < 1127021856 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing this for CLASS?! < 1127021872 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. You're writing a different program for class. < 1127021889 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, different (in C) < 1127021893 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea okies :) < 1127021918 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually thought about doing an esolang for my research, but.. I dont know that the dept. would have let it in < 1127021935 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its more computer science than biomedical engineering < 1127021952 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will your reasearch program do? < 1127021998 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run a monte carlo simulation on a 3D piece of tissue < 1127022053 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its for an optical imaging system. I'll need to model the system, then reconstruct the output for a variety of systems < 1127022123 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@dialup-4.240.150.135.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127022146 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey calamari < 1127022194 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1127022272 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This system you are modeling -- is this to test the design before building it? < 1127022306 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly < 1127022336 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been some preliminary work to suggest that the system should work fairly well < 1127022373 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the goal is to be able to use the system model in the design of the tissue. < 1127022406 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make tissue? < 1127022421 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, and Im not entirely sure how they're doing it either. < 1127022433 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're stimulating embryonic stem cells.. < 1127022462 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe non-embryonic stem cells < 1127022748 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kidn of tissue are they trying to make? < 1127022825 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tendons right now. Future projects might be aimed more at detecting cancerous tissues embedded in other tissues (such as liver) < 1127022877 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. What does surgery currently do for severed or damaged tendons? < 1127022883 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use a flourescent marker, which is what we're trying to detect. < 1127022936 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they try to stretch them to get them to regrow and reconnect < 1127022947 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127022974 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are pretty much entirely artificial tendons though, which makes me think that the stretching business doesnt work that great. < 1127023089 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If tendons could stretch, they wouldn't be very useful. < 1127023139 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1127023148 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, um bye < 1127023221 0 :Wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@216.154.205.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1127023294 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1127023568 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1127023677 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. Firefox errored out on me < 1127024898 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, Im off to bed, thank you very much heatsink!! < 1127024914 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, night-o < 1127024934 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]" < 1127025475 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is playing with his expandable Brainfuck < 1127026203 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1127029027 0 :calamari!n=calamari@dialup-4.240.150.135.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127030399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1127030400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1127034322 0 :nooga!i=nooga@ip-50.net-41.rev.inter-c.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1127034327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1127034757 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nooga < 1127034968 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari < 1127035788 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sup. < 1127036163 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paragon.pastebin.com/366910 < 1127036233 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Condensed: {fibo:(~=)->+>+<<[>>%>*<<[->+<]>>%<<*<-]>},{fibo}! < 1127036383 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@dialup-4.240.72.239.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127036441 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey calamari, net screw up? < 1127036530 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1127038317 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Arrogant < 1127038331 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't really watching.. :) < 1127038558 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty useless little hack of a language < 1127038671 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1127038683 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paragon.pastebin.com/366910 < 1127038695 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the commented version. This is condensed: {fibo:(~=)->+>+<<[>>%>*<<[->+<]>>%<<*<-]>},{fibo}! < 1127038705 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck + functions and a few other things. < 1127038709 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including copy/paste < 1127039470 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid < 1127039818 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1127039818 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1127039950 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotta practice somehow < 1127040400 0 :jix!i=jix@F33f8.f.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1127040615 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" Want to be different? HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-" < 1127041030 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1127041476 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1127041484 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can use my editor for befunge development... < 1127041720 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1127041767 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl.. :) < 1127041770 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1127049299 0 :J|x!i=jix@F3099.f.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1127050009 0 :kipple!n=kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1127050053 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1127050267 0 :J|x!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1127056021 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@61.247.128.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1127056076 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@61.247.128.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1127056090 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1127056100 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1127056111 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@61.247.128.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1127058683 0 :Wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@216.154.205.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1127058921 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ;-) < 1127058956 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin Wildhalcyon < 1127058965 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how you doin jix? < 1127058978 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.. < 1127059070 0 :Sgep!n=sgeo@ool-182e9882.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127059531 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that good eh? < 1127060847 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is proud of his esolang < 1127060909 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come IRC commands seem to be centered around death and kevin kline? < 1127061251 0 :Keymaker!n=Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1127061283 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1127061288 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey keymaker! < 1127061292 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1127061314 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how you been? < 1127061330 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, haven't done much anything < 1127061334 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping lol < 1127061340 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, not all this time :) < 1127061346 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading to exams < 1127061380 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now i'm going to spend a bit on that new language of mine < 1127061390 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some really nice and perhaps unique ideas < 1127061409 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too!.. just not about your language < 1127061412 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1127061414 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Im sure is good, but its yours, not mine < 1127061421 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127061427 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you mind reading the updated spec? I've been working on it this morning a lot. < 1127061434 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1127061437 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link me up! < 1127061465 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/CRAWL_spec.txt < 1127061483 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, takes some time.. :) < 1127061510 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand < 1127061939 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1127061947 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be one of the clearest specs i've ever read < 1127061950 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good work < 1127061978 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you! < 1127062005 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1127062013 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(learned that from logs) < 1127062019 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that yw) < 1127062033 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, fgrom heatsink's help! < 1127062044 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was very good at giving me pointers < 1127062055 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127062231 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any tips for me? < 1127062251 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from the duplicate entry for the character ' (fixed on my local copy) < 1127062443 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1127062463 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing comes to my mind(s) at the moment < 1127062477 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, smells good to me. < 1127062482 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1127062512 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I have 14 instructions to work with in my spur-of-the-moment adage derivative < 1127062586 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/adage/udage < 1127062592 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to write good specs.. < 1127062605 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language planning seems to go along the spec writing, this time < 1127062608 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, because the ideas are clear in YOUR head, not necessarily in someone who's trying to understand < 1127062614 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1127062615 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why heatsink's help last night was so valuable. < 1127062623 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1127062633 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my fourth plan of the language < 1127062643 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made yesterday four plans for it < 1127062658 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i noticed there was something lethal problem in two of them.. or three x) < 1127062678 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah? That's no good! < 1127062703 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this current should be fine < 1127062709 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most clever < 1127062717 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always the best < 1127062735 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1127062745 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm worried about one thing though < 1127062753 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory model < 1127062760 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i want this time my language be turing-complete < 1127062767 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just for change ;)) < 1127062778 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not sure if my stack+accumulator system works < 1127062798 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally i could replace that system by using two stacks < 1127062811 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.. < 1127062836 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, you don't have any other data storage? < 1127062876 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have currently a stack and an accumulator < 1127062889 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accumulator is just a byte < 1127062899 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1127062901 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack can be reversed by instruction < 1127062928 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that memory model probably isn't turing-complete < 1127062943 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :experts? whadda say? < 1127062970 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. It doesn't allow random access of the stack < 1127063003 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah (i guess i understand what you mean) < 1127063027 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best would be to use two stacks perhaps < 1127063039 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been told tc compatible < 1127063043 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1127063067 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with proper instructions.. and they being popping, pushing, and changing the stack, and reversing < 1127063071 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think those are fine < 1127063072 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, I think I came up with a gnarly n-symbol udage alphabet < 1127063097 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be TC Keymaker, to be honest Im not an expert enough to know < 1127063126 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it from wikipedia sometime < 1127063152 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope it is valid info :) < 1127063193 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so too < 1127063319 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.. i think i is.. one can use stack memory just like an array if one has two stacks < 1127063330 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's naturally not as easy >:) < 1127063349 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think i want to use array model always < 1127063358 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, pop from one push to the other - more like a list than an array < 1127063360 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually i have never used it..) < 1127063374 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what's list < 1127063392 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i just meant one can move it like it were an array < 1127063406 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list is where you only have access to the element and the element's neighbor(s) < 1127063421 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1127063428 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you CAN keep your stack TC if you have an instruction which pops from one end and pushes to the other < 1127063447 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a TC single stack model which I use in my language < 1127063466 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1127063595 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are different kinds of (linked) lists < 1127063606 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a doubly-linked list < 1127063617 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jix is right.. check on wikipedia < 1127063620 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of 'em < 1127063626 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly buggers, linked lists are < 1127063653 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code executes without throwing exceptions ... maybe it even works! < 1127063679 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck ;-) < 1127063703 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on my website < 1127063763 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what code? < 1127063770 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :website code? < 1127063837 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127063846 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127063849 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good lcuk < 1127063851 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*luck < 1127063853 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1127063860 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1127063919 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it return nil < 1127063947 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't return nil < 1127063959 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic? < 1127064024 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a stupid typo < 1127064031 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always a stupid type *g* < 1127064039 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1127064051 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches the ActiveRecord::Base doc < 1127064105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, would this make TC memory? < 1127064105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 4 5 a < 1127064105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1127064105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 3 4 5 < 1127064105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----------------------- < 1127064105 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 3 4 5 < 1127064107 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1127064109 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 4 3 a < 1127064111 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----------------------- < 1127064113 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 4 3 a < 1127064115 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1127064117 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 4 3 < 1127064119 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accumulator = a < 1127064121 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----------------------- < 1127064123 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 4 3 < 1127064125 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1127064127 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 4 3 a < 1127064129 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(accumulator = a) < 1127064162 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1127064166 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo... < 1127064180 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1127064219 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is single queue memory tc? (since that can be done with this) < 1127064248 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can simulate infinite tape with it < 1127064259 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have data values 0 and 1 < 1127064268 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a special marker 2 < 1127064275 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1127064279 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it is? < 1127064281 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you move in direction a < 1127064286 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you rotate right < 1127064293 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in direction b you rotate left < 1127064311 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as soon as you reach 2 you add another 0 before the 2 (extend the tape) < 1127064348 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np: Kyuss - Supa Scoopa and Mighty Scoop [ Welcome To Sky Valley ] < 1127064361 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this song is cool < 1127064369 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1127064379 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works! < 1127064383 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 2 typos ;) < 1127064387 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1127064426 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew.. this freakin' think is HUGE < 1127064434 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1127064532 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot. it doesn't match any of the integer sequence database entries < 1127064549 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im enumerating all the possible n-length symbol-independent strings < 1127064601 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have a typo (I hope not.. 178 length-6 strings!) < 1127064781 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grgrghh.. there are too many esolangs to try! < 1127064785 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and learn < 1127064793 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. Typo! (in the number of length-4, not a string typo) < 1127064794 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and new coming all the time :) keep it up though :) < 1127064841 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a matching integer sequence! 1 2 5 15 50 178... (next three for lenghts 7,8,9 are 663 2553 and 10086) < 1127064864 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying. This will be my second real esolang, as opposed to the ones in my head < 1127065087 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm.. < 1127065238 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im not sure how that integer sequence (which deals with anti-chains in "rooted trees" ?) relates to the symbol problem though < 1127065442 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language looks nice and... terse ;-) < 1127065451 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wjpese? < 1127065455 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shoes? < 1127065458 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whose < 1127065477 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours, keymaker < 1127065483 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language? < 1127065488 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one i'm designing currently? < 1127065494 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127065498 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers < 1127065506 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else have you designed? Because I have a short attention span and dont remember < 1127065513 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trigger (partly) < 1127065516 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unnecessary < 1127065548 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/trigger/trigger.html < 1127065560 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's right, trigger < 1127065565 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should update the page with couple of programs.. < 1127065592 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them doesn't work yet and i should rewrite because i'm too lazy to search for the bug.. when i got time to do that i'll update the site < 1127065601 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be nice, some examples < 1127065675 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three currently < 1127065712 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: on trigger's site i have new version of 99bob.. it's been there for a while, though < 1127065744 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought you might want to see it if you haven't.. < 1127065792 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there already a programming language called Lingua? < 1127065808 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm hgavent'ghearhif < 1127065809 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not according to google < 1127065817 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hmmm haven't heard of < 1127065824 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, its either Lingua or Glypho < 1127065832 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which do you guys like better? < 1127065836 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1127065842 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are good < 1127065847 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably glypho < 1127065860 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127065869 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glypho < 1127065898 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1127065908 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Glypho too < 1127065939 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instructions are encoded in a length-n string of symbols (not necessarily characters) < 1127065969 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my best 99bob is stil my subskin version < 1127065970 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-subskin-868.html < 1127065977 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still only 2 votes :( < 1127065981 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glypho takes the first symbol and calls it "a", then it looks at the next symbol, which can either be "a" or something other than "a", which it calls "b" < 1127066034 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it deserves more! too bad i gave my vote already ;) < 1127066058 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I voted jix < 1127066062 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're lucky I didnt vote already < 1127066072 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wildhalcyon: thanks < 1127066087 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anytime buddy ;-) < 1127066094 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1127066106 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Glypho ever gets an implementation running, I'll write a 99bob program and post it up too < 1127066108 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this glypho isn't the same than the other language you're working? < 1127066133 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, COMPLETELY different < 1127066136 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1127066141 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sounds very good < 1127066148 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other language is called.. not sure yet. Its a bit more serious (I'm writing a rogue-like RPG in it) < 1127066157 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1127066181 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love languages that do stuff with strings and patterns (like thue (and trigger)) < 1127066183 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the possible length-3 Glypho strings are: aaa aab aba abb abc < 1127066228 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure but isn't the number of length-n glypho string n! < 1127066268 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I can see, although it might be related to the factorial function in some manner I can't conceive of < 1127066293 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't written a formula for length-n glypho strings yet < 1127066385 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no.. i'm wrong < 1127066408 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its kind of fun seeing how the enumerations work out < 1127066511 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumerations? what are them? < 1127066525 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enumerations are just counting < 1127066705 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im trying to design a tree structure out of it, but its difficult < 1127066895 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/glypho.txt < 1127066989 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm now doing fifth draft.. < 1127067003 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better n simpler < 1127067010 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jix, you could use a 3-symbol string to encode bf instruction minimalization since it only has 5 instructions < 1127067015 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why a 5th? what was wrong with the 4th? < 1127067020 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1127067023 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i invented new way < 1127067033 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, alrighty < 1127067034 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or change one concept, so to speak < 1127067081 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the main version of glypho, Im using length-4 strings, that gives me 15 instructions < 1127067117 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like at least 1 NOP (aaaa - at least) so I have 14 "real" instructions to work with < 1127067363 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't quite figured out a way to.. y'know.. encode numbers in the symbols. I'll have to work on that < 1127067594 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i must go.. < 1127067613 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably won't be back until next wednesday.. important exam stuff that day.. < 1127067634 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck! < 1127067638 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on wednesday i'm free for a while, though, and have some more spare time :) < 1127067638 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk to you later keymaker < 1127067643 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers :) < 1127067644 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1127067649 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with esolangs < 1127067652 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1127067660 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to get this thing ready by wednesday < 1127067666 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1127067669 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This quote is unrelated to this context." < 1127070014 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arggggghhh, I have room for one more instruction... < 1127070051 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and I DO need one more instruction. < 1127070054 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders for a moment < 1127071121 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make it push 0 onto the stack, perform integer division/modulus... < 1127071156 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make it unefungeoid and reverse program flow < 1127074209 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can use my website code for static pages now! < 1127074236 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo! < 1127074252 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hope it's faster in production mode with fcgi and lighttpd than in development mode with webrick < 1127074358 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it's only 597 lines and i think 30% are auto-generated by rails < 1127074391 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i didn't counted the .rhtml files (templates) < 1127074479 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ive almost got the glypho spec done < 1127074534 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :660 with html templates < 1127074541 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhtml? never heard of it < 1127074572 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the extension of erb files... that ruby embedded in html < 1127074582 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like php's < 1127074589 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's <% ruby_code %> < 1127074622 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rails views are written using erb .rhtml files < 1127074644 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh, alright < 1127074654 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby on rails.. Ive heard of that < 1127074797 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 ops, 326 total... never saw that anywhere except here at freenode < 1127074815 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1127074833 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an irc channel with 326 users and 0 ops < 1127074851 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what's an op? < 1127074859 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on op can kick or ban users < 1127074868 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only chat on this channel, so I'm not really familiar with them < 1127074875 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*please dont ban me* < 1127075177 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok next controller... menu < 1127075215 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you look at the glypho spec and tell me if you think its TC? < 1127075233 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/glypho.txt < 1127075354 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1127075357 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it is < 1127075386 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too, but its sort of hard to be certain I guess < 1127075431 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW it would be TC if I changed negate and multiply to be increment/decrement - it would look a lot like BUB (a TC bf varient) < 1127075488 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get inc by abba abbb < 1127075493 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dec by abba abbc < 1127075526 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright! TC, here we come < 1127075545 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think I should include the multiply and reverse flow operators? < 1127075548 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big question is if the memory is random accessible enough < 1127075569 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a typo in the spec - abcb should be "r" not "?" < 1127075585 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be kipple - you can rotate the circular stack forward and backwards as much as you like < 1127075602 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between rotate and reverse-rotate? < 1127075632 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate: {a b c d -- d a b c} reverse-rotate: {a b c d -- b c d a} < 1127075669 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack consists of? < 1127075674 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignums? < 1127075676 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integers? < 1127075694 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't decided yet ;-) < 1127075701 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1127075708 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably fixed-width integers < 1127075710 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditional looping is a bit difficult < 1127075711 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 32-bit < 1127075718 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1127075730 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have a test operator < 1127075746 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right.. hmm < 1127075757 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to nix multiplication then < 1127075762 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or duplication < 1127075765 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does reverse do? reverse the IP? < 1127075770 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a test operator that checks if the upper stack value is greater than the 2nd and pushes 1 or 0 < 1127075775 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes kipple < 1127075780 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do not remove multiplication < 1127075796 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's needed for conditional looping < 1127075804 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1127075808 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can multiply the relative adress with the test result < 1127075817 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good point < 1127075821 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 does skip 0 doesn't < 1127075856 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe remove q and say outputting a value > 255 terminates < 1127075905 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it terminates if it ever skips to a negative instruction reference? < 1127075930 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I get the rotates now. I though you actually rotated the entire stack, but you just push/pop between the top and bottom elements < 1127075932 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skip can take a negative number < 1127075940 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127075941 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly kipple < 1127075943 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's possible too < 1127075988 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think I get bonus points for being obfuscated < 1127075989 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then I agree that the memory should be sufficient for TC < 1127076011 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the stack is unbounded < 1127076045 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as the language spec is concerned, it is. Obviously, implementations will have bounded-storage < 1127076109 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be pretty trivial to implement brainfuck in this lang < 1127076120 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1127076130 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF you include a conditional operator that is :) < 1127076148 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like jix's test operator so far... < 1127076190 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about pushing the difference between the top two elements instead of just 0 and 1? < 1127076198 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11-+ produces 0 on the stack, so does 11t (where t is jix's test operator) < 1127076207 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes conditional looping difficult kipple < 1127076222 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t is just a greater-than test, right Jix? < 1127076226 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127076257 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, then I think we're okay < 1127076258 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using negation and swap you can make < > <= and >= < 1127076275 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good deal < 1127076288 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, which operator has to go to make room for test? < 1127076297 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q (quit) < 1127076301 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is NOP really needed? < 1127076304 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like having DUP in there < 1127076312 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOP really isn't, I suppose < 1127076322 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither is reversing the program flow < 1127076333 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1127076333 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reversing program flow is cool < 1127076338 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought so too :-D < 1127076359 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that q to is not very important < 1127076428 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could quit if it tried to access an instruction too far forward too - skip-to-end for instance < 1127076460 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just quit when the end of code is reached? like most langs < 1127076481 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically what I was trying to say just now < 1127076497 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. you're right :) < 1127076512 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that since skip can take negative jump values (in order to actually loop), I need to have it do SOMETHING for negative instructions < 1127076516 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that something is quit < 1127076600 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the source code supposed to look? are the syntax for comments? is whitespace instructions or ignored? < 1127076623 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comments, unfortunately. < 1127076634 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. is CRCRCRLF just whitespace, or an i operator? < 1127076663 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source code is defined (arbitrarily) as a set of symbols - minimum of 4. < 1127076674 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implementation can define what a symbol is or is not. < 1127076678 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1127076686 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is nice to have a NOP :) < 1127076704 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though nice may not be what you're aiming for here... < 1127076747 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I could make an interpreter in which any BF commands are considered "symbols" while any other ASCII characters are ignored < 1127076765 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1127076768 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :image! < 1127076769 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im not aiming for "nice", Im aiming for interesting. < 1127076783 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: huh? < 1127076789 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an image for storing symbols < 1127076789 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :images should work too, yes. < 1127076827 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a good code + any image => code-image would be possible < 1127076845 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be, yeah. < 1127076870 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to use aaaa as NOP because same-symbols sets are common and boring < 1127076902 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about saying the stack items have to be 32-or-larger bit signed integers < 1127076920 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a bad stipulation < 1127077091 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed. (incidentally that's exactly what I have put in the update of the Kipple spec) < 1127077200 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to implement it now < 1127077235 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to use that symbol->instruction table < 1127077299 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127077322 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, okay. I guess it'll be set in stone now then. < 1127077363 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im happy with it :-) < 1127077386 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I don't understand why you can't have instructions like cbaa etc... < 1127077417 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1127077419 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each instruction resets the symbol definitions < 1127077420 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now < 1127077422 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1127077431 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bit alien this conecept :) < 1127077441 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is a good thing by the way) < 1127077450 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def get_instruction(string);string.tr(string.reverse,"dcba");end < 1127077451 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im basing this off of Udage, it's GOING to be alien to everyone < 1127077463 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :converts a 4 byte string to a "aaba" like string < 1127077465 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that jix? < 1127077470 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1127077471 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby code < 1127077504 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you doing the bf-instruction == symbol, other ASCII == comment idea, or something else? < 1127077517 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I take back my previous statement that a BF interpreter would be 'trivial'! < 1127077525 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, maybe you should... < 1127077540 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm doing the straight ascii => glypho conversion < 1127077544 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without comments < 1127077559 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice and obfuscated then < 1127077749 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its got a fairly novel instruction set too, gives it its own... flavor? < 1127077830 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abca abcb << is wrong < 1127077843 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abac not abca < 1127077900 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack, you're right it is wrong! < 1127077916 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i pop from the empty steck.. 0 or error? < 1127077919 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ive included it twice! < 1127077920 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a shorthand notation-to-glypho converter will be essential to any programmer :) < 1127077929 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably error I think jix < 1127077933 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1127077935 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be kipple < 1127077938 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes implementation easier < 1127077962 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: but it won't work with reverse mode < 1127077976 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not jix? < 1127077987 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how reverse mode works < 1127078001 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work on symbol level or instruction level? < 1127078010 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instruction set will have to be rearranged and changed to work at the symbol level adequately < 1127078036 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im working on a set of reversible instructions (increment and decrement come into play) - but this was before Jix pointed out the lack of a test operator < 1127078123 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you refresh the file, I think I fixed the abca abcb problem (replaced it with abac abcb) < 1127078247 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does test pop? < 1127078271 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the documentation says no < 1127078282 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, should it? < 1127078373 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1127078377 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it shouldn't < 1127078392 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a matter of taste, I think. Both should work < 1127078421 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on what you're going to use more - if you want to keep and use the value often, then dont pop, if you're not going to use it much after the test pop is better < 1127078434 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1127078450 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented don't pop < 1127078481 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll rewrite the spec in a bit to make that more clear < 1127078504 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d+d+d+1d++ is 10 right? < 1127078515 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all the other instructions causes a pop you might want to pop just for consitency < 1127078527 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: it's an esolang < 1127078541 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for consistency *g* < 1127078567 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say *might*... :) < 1127078573 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1127078596 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aabb ..... t < 1127078599 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be d instead of t < 1127078605 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1127078657 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is d < 1127078665 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im sorry, that was a temporary error - its fixed now < 1127078677 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I was debating between eliminating d and q. < 1127078859 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter done (in ruby) < 1127078871 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an I right that when you reverse symbol flow with r you get a completely different set of instructions as the 4 symbols are read backwards? < 1127078905 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the question now, isn't it? < 1127078933 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think right now, it just reverses instruction flow < 1127078937 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented reversed instructions < 1127078950 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easy to change it back < 1127078951 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like unefunge (1D befunge) < 1127078963 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll change it to act like it < 1127078971 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if I ever implement rGlypho (reversible glypho) < 1127078988 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably have it reverse the entire set of symbols. < 1127079017 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if reverse is on symbol level, then it would be nice to have "opposite" instructions being exactly opposite. < 1127079029 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < is abaa and > is aaba < 1127079047 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1127079063 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there might not be too many such pais < 1127079065 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pairs < 1127079071 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a working example for printing "\n" 011000110111001101110011011101100011011101110010 < 1127079087 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 4 instruction pairs, 7 "non-reversing" instructions < 1127079108 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that binary ascii? < 1127079114 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1127079117 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ascii < 1127079123 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i only needed a and b < 1127079127 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1127079138 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i decided to use 1 and 0 for it < 1127079146 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one could write everything wiht 1 I i and | < 1127079239 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a and b are the primary symbols, c and d are used a lot less < 1127079261 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0OoQ would work too < 1127079274 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using 0 and O as primary symbols < 1127079275 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're evil < 1127079292 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really < 1127079298 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because QQQQ is still an NOP < 1127079317 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just depends on how obfuscated you want your code to look < 1127079323 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np: Metallica - Am I Evil (bonus track) [ Kill 'Em All ] < 1127079325 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrhr < 1127079371 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i evil -- yes i am < 1127079397 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1127079468 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard would it be for you to rearrange the symbol->instruction table in your program? < 1127079612 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty easy < 1127079628 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1127079650 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've rearranged them to "vaguely" reflect the symmetry in some of the instructions < 1127079701 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1127079717 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that really annoying, or is that okay? < 1127079771 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok < 1127079908 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok changed it < 1127079941 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.harderweb.de/jix/glypho.rb < 1127080040 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can use any arbitrary symbols? < 1127080047 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1127080134 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, man.. ruby is terse. < 1127080142 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clean ruby code < 1127080168 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first 2 lines are.. ugh < 1127080250 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about clean. It looks great! < 1127080256 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll maybe have to try it out a lil;' < 1127080257 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lil' < 1127080325 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night < 1127080332 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1127080386 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to work out a hello world example < 1127080445 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if his implementation ignores whitespace. I doubt it... < 1127080461 0 :grim_!n=grim@213-152-53-111.dsl.eclipse.net.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1127080468 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo all < 1127080474 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey grim < 1127080657 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1127080676 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like my connection problems have sorted themselves out < 1127080684 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds good buddy ;-) < 1127080870 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1127080901 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im having trouble writing hello world < 1127081179 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got it printing "Hello" < 1127081335 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the language? < 1127081344 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glypho < 1127081355 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must have missed that one < 1127081366 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im having trouble writing a freakin' loop! < 1127081376 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it today. Just posted it to the wiki a bit ago < 1127081383 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jix wrote a ruby interpreter < 1127081466 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im not really sure if its turing complete < 1127081622 0 :Arrogant!i=Arrogant@32.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1127081641 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1127081652 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it should be < 1127081661 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to think so < 1127081666 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that jump instruction is a horror < 1127081675 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im noticing :-/ < 1127081750 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to test positive, multiply by n+c, negate, then skip < 1127081764 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1127081769 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Im really not sure! < 1127081772 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1127081801 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there there ;) < 1127081827 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im trying to think of a way to write a loop that outputs elements until it reaches a 0 < 1127081909 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy < 1127081916 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In a normal language) < 1127081926 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, I think Ive got it... < 1127081926 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you using? < 1127081936 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glypho, my brand new state of the art headache language < 1127081961 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.. I think I wrote the loop: < 1127081965 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<11-+\t1d+d*d**-s < 1127081977 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in shorthand notation) < 1127082013 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting arbitrary numbers on the stack isn't easy eh? < 1127082035 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its not, but it could be worse. This isn't bf < 1127082063 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the latest sample from my BF extension < 1127082070 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{sub:>*<[->-<]>}+++++++++++++++%>+++++{sub}! < 1127082127 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that moves to the next element, tests if its greater than 0, if it is (and gets a 1 on the stack), it multiplies 1 by -16 and skips 16 instructions back, conveniently to the start of the loop < 1127082136 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I forgot to output the character! < 1127082147 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1127082151 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close then < 1127082169 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems ... difficult. < 1127082172 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too hard < 1127082193 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fix it... < 1127082258 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't be easy to prove turing complete < 1127082319 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point isn't straightforward < 1127082335 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you may be write < 1127082337 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1127082345 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/write/right/ < 1127082377 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still feels like it should be... < 1127082380 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be quite upset if it ISNT TC < 1127082387 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack manipulation is at least, I know that < 1127082595 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-" < 1127082596 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, gonna grab a snack and think about this... < 1127082828 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, Im really not liking this looping behavior < 1127082922 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I change the skip and test instructions to be matching braces (like bf) then its much easier < 1127083151 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy isn't everything < 1127083169 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it too easy and it's no fun < 1127083201 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I think the language offers enough *unique* challenges to still be difficult to program in < 1127083217 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would know ;) < 1127083253 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially considering aaaabbbbccccdddd is 4 NOP instructions while ababcdcdefefgigi is four dup operations in the SAME program < 1127083286 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mneme is at the other end of the spectrum, the instruction set is too easy and it's too easy to seperate code from data < 1127083300 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not fun yet < 1127083352 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas glypho looks like a hair-puller < 1127083400 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really, REALLY is. < 1127083409 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to put a 0 on the stack, you have to type 11-+ < 1127083438 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather aabcaabcabcbabac < 1127083453 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could easily be 1123112312321213 < 1127083453 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is a bit nuts < 1127083485 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny though ;) < 1127083490 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if *maybe* I change my loops to be slightly.. conventional... I think I deserve at least a bit of slack... < 1127083619 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops are self-referential in construction, that is nasty < 1127083619 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, I guess I'll have to let jix know later, since his interpreter doesn't support "easy" looping < 1127083651 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number you have to create in the loop changes the pattern of the loop code < 1127083651 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we need a new language category for the wiki for these pattern-based langs < 1127083674 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1127083685 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hence changes the number you have to make in the loop! < 1127083695 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's blinding XD < 1127083695 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so here's "Hello" in Glypho shorthand: 1d+d*dddd**++d1d+d*d*1d+*111++-++d1d+dd**1-++dd111+++11-+<[o<]! < 1127083716 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, 'blinding' indeed.. maybe i should fix my hilight < 1127083729 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see why I was crying grim? < 1127083753 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think it's hilarious, but it's got definite implications for TCness < 1127083774 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too, hence my decision to use the BF-style braces < 1127083826 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man.. I hope that code doesn't have any typos in it < 1127083848 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fair call, have to see how it works out < 1127083879 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to go anyway < 1127083888 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your input < 1127083904 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any time < 1127083931 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye all < 1127083940 0 :grim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1127084102 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to have a C/C++ implemenmtation later tonight < 1127085028 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n00b's (read:my) attempt to design something: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Sgeo/binbf < 1127085110 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is NYT? < 1127085120 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And take a look at Spoon before you get too far < 1127085170 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, Spoon doesn't have RLE < 1127085213 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it sure doesnt < 1127085229 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We need some general and straightforward method to transmit symbols which are not yet transmitted (NYT)" --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_Huffman_coding < 1127085292 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay < 1127085462 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and incidentally, it's not designed to be coded in directly, although that is possible < 1127085572 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, neither is glypho < 1127085584 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Glypho isnt really designed to be coded in period < 1127085590 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think thats fairly common among esolangs < 1127086574 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, its amazing how NICE those braces make everything < 1127086591 0 :Wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the Glypho would be TC without [ and ] < 1127087707 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1127087747 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric