00:05:45 Glypho Fibonacci number generator: 11#[>>d+<\<1-+] (Where # is a stack element that is set to the number of terms to generate) 01:01:52 -!- Sgep has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:05:56 -!- Sgep has joined. 01:31:23 -!- Wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:32:18 -!- Wildhalcyon has joined. 03:29:28 -!- Arrogant has joined. 03:34:40 -!- Wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:38:48 -!- Wildhalcyon has joined. 04:06:46 -!- Wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]"). 04:14:51 Be back tomorrow 04:15:27 -!- Sgep has quit. 04:35:55 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:46:17 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 05:51:30 -!- CXI has joined. 07:15:21 -!- Aardappel has joined. 07:15:37 * Aardappel tickles cpressey 07:16:49 Adding a stack to this thing was a great success 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:35:29 -!- Arrogant has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference"). 10:29:56 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:30:11 -!- CXI has joined. 11:40:40 -!- grim__ has joined. 11:48:46 -!- ChanServ has quit (Shutting Down). 11:51:09 -!- ChanServ has joined. 11:51:09 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ. 11:53:36 -!- grim__ has changed nick to grim_. 12:00:09 -!- grim_ has left (?). 13:22:50 -!- jix has joined. 13:23:06 moin! 13:25:10 np: Kyuss - Supa Scoopa and Mighty Scoop [ Welcome To Sky Valley ] 13:39:04 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 14:08:55 -!- jix has joined. 14:11:05 -!- kipple has joined. 14:28:42 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:37:15 -!- ihope has joined. 15:39:41 There, I just executed an IRP instruction: NOP 15:48:27 -!- Wildhalcyon has joined. 15:49:15 hey all 16:20:07 -!- grim_ has joined. 16:35:54 mornin' grim 16:39:50 wotcha 16:48:45 nada 17:08:56 -!- jix has joined. 17:09:21 moin 17:09:23 again 17:11:09 moin! 17:11:21 Im sorry Jix :-( 17:12:32 The previous incarnation of Glypho was too tarpit for me, Ive had to make some changes. I might be making some additional ones soon as well. 17:18:27 wh: which one are you talking about? 17:18:35 the [...] braces one? 17:18:43 or the one before? 17:18:49 the [] one 17:18:53 hehehe 17:19:05 Yeah, grim understands me 17:19:57 I've thought about modifying the arithmetic to be more "brainfuckish" - push-1 becomes push-0, add becomes increment, negate becomes decrement.. and multiply disappears (leaving me with an additional instruction) 17:20:16 :( 17:20:23 that's too brainfuckish imo 17:20:24 why? 17:20:48 that was a response to WildHalcyon, not jix, btw 17:20:52 You're right, but it makes numbers easier 17:21:07 well... 17:21:20 It also makes more sense from the point of view of the "push" function - pushing an empty cell, ready to accept input 17:21:32 Wildhalcyon: no you can create every number in the form 2^a+2^b+2^c => 1d+d+d+...1d+d+d+...1d+d+d+..+++... 17:22:44 I suppose that is easier than the BF "add til' you get there" number functions 17:23:07 Jix, did you read about the reasoning behind adding the brackets? 17:23:51 I think the brackets are good. The main brainburner will be having only a stack anyways 17:24:01 you can already do bf-ish 111111+++++ 17:24:02 Plus, I like how pushing 0 becomes: 11-+ 17:25:42 I think you can also perform BF multiplication by doing 111++-1>[<11++>1+] which should multiply 2*3? 17:26:46 yes, where is the problem? 17:27:24 I don't know, really. Im being wishy-washy I suppose. Glypho is good, I am happy with its creation 17:27:49 Next step is to create a program that takes glypho "shorthand" and converts it to a symbol string 17:28:22 preferably not just a static aabbabbaabcaabab etc. but one that used multiple symbols from an alphabetic set 17:29:26 true 17:29:34 shouldn't be hard either 17:29:51 but I've work to do :( 17:29:56 btwm shouldn't the [ and ] patterns be opposites? 17:30:06 not really, not with a decent PRNG, and I have work to do this week too 17:30:13 probably kipple 17:30:35 I only swapped out "skip" and "test" with "[" and "]" 17:31:43 -!- J|x has joined. 17:36:38 Kipple, I fixed it 17:37:20 and I've written a few example functions - fibonacci and cat 17:39:03 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:39:05 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 17:39:24 cat is nice and short :) 17:39:36 and aside from swapping symbols with bf, its identical 17:40:42 what happens if you start a program with a [ ? 17:40:50 is that an error? 17:41:11 if it pops.. yes 17:41:31 how does [ work exactly ? 17:41:31 [ doesn't pop, I think. only peek 17:41:47 ok.. if it peeks a negative value does it loop forever? 17:41:59 but what happens when you pop or peek at an empty stack? 17:42:09 error 17:45:52 popping an empty stack is no good 17:45:56 Don't do it 17:46:22 hehe. sure. just couldn't find anything about it in the spec... 17:46:55 ah. found it. but it says it is NOT an error 17:47:18 Oh, well.. see? 17:47:20 jix: "popping from an empty stack is a NOP" 17:47:21 Very ambiguous 17:47:46 * Wildhalcyon was unfortunately tired and ambiguous last night during the creation of Glypho 17:48:21 now that you have an instruction that peeks, it is even more unclear :D 17:49:19 I know :-( 17:49:50 the simple solution is of course to invoke the old "undefined behavior" 17:50:59 ah... ambiguous behavior wrapped inside a wonderful ambiguous statement 17:52:20 -!- J|x has joined. 17:53:53 "Any actions which pop or otherwise manipulate the stack while it is empty have an undefined behavior and should be frowned upon at all times" 17:53:58 How's that sound? 17:54:09 that's nice :) 17:54:56 I wonder how trivial it is to prove that this language is TC... 17:55:35 hmm. manipulating the stack would include pushing... and you'll want to push to an ampty stack ;) 17:55:52 Wildhalcyon: relatively trivial, just show that you can emulate a turing machine 17:56:19 good point kipple, pushing is important 17:57:37 That's what I thought lindi. I think I can emulate one, I just have to demonstrate it. I've proved it can loop, I guess I should prove it can have an arbitrary-length tape 17:58:54 Wildhalcyon: that's actually depends on how you define turing completeness. if you absolutely require infinite tape then very few languages support that 17:59:23 Well, TC never said inifinite tape - just long enough to do whatever job you wanted to do with it. 17:59:41 i thought it said infinite tape, wait a sec. i'll check 17:59:41 strictly speaking TC requires an infinite tape 17:59:59 I think the definition of a Turing machine includes an infinite tape 18:00:04 I was under the assumption that TC just required a tape that could be ANY length 18:00:19 indeed. in computability theory sense 18:00:22 but the stack in Glyph is infinite, so I don't think that's a problem 18:00:36 "While such machines may be physically impossible as they require unlimited storage, Turing completeness is often loosely attributed to physical machines or programming languages that would be universal if they had indefinitely enlargeable storage. " 18:00:43 in fact, any task which REQUIRES infinite tape is not computable on a turing machine 18:00:43 kipple: stack isn't a tape 18:00:49 I know 18:01:08 lindi, my stack can be modeled as a piece of tape with the ends tied together 18:01:08 so, you can still make it "loosely TC" 18:01:18 that's not stack anymore then 18:01:34 Well then, no. Its not a stack. Its a circular linked list 18:01:42 yep 18:01:48 But pushing and popping are done on a stack-like basis 18:01:51 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:02:05 Wildhalcyon: is the spec online somewhere? 18:02:14 The fact that sometimes it enqueues its head onto its tail is... crazy 18:02:23 www4.ncsu.edu/~bcthomp2/glypho.txt 18:02:59 I think I'll nickname the stack-list monstrosity as "ouroborous" (sp?) since it eats its own tail 18:05:03 Some people Ive shown it to have trouble understanding how the symbols within the instructions work. I've had trouble explaining it. 18:05:39 I can imagine 18:05:48 what have they found difficult? the whole context-free wxyz thing? 18:06:00 I had some troubles with it myself at first :) 18:06:21 Mostly the fact that the "a" for instruction 1 does not necessarily equal the "a" for any other instruction 18:06:37 right, sure 18:06:52 you might want to use other symbols than letters 18:07:03 though I'm not sure which 18:07:10 Wildhalcyon: in fact, i'm not sure if glypho is tc or not 18:07:21 why not lindi? 18:07:49 i'm just unsure :) 18:08:00 I can understand that I guess. 18:08:38 We'll find out. I'll work on trying to implement bf instructions in it 18:09:25 it seems to me that you can get TC-ness with a couple of bits of string and some PVA glue these days 18:10:06 tell me about it grim. I'll be pretty peeved if wang tiles can out-TC my glypho language 18:45:49 -!- pgimeno has changed nick to pg_coche. 18:47:17 Hmm, I can't find the sequence {1,2,5,15,50...} in the integer sequence database 18:47:58 Although its possible I counted wrong on n=6 :-( 18:57:50 -!- ihope has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]"). 19:10:34 Found it - I did count wrong 19:11:14 "Word structures of length n using a 6-ary alphabet. Permuting the alphabet will not change a word structure. Thus aabc and bbca have the same structure." 19:12:24 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 19:12:45 are you having an identity crisis today jix? ;) 19:13:54 no... a bad network connection 19:16:01 -!- pg_coche has changed nick to pgimeno. 20:19:50 * jix is going to continue coding his homepage 20:26:15 np: Metallica - Am I Evil (bonus track) [ Kill 'Em All ] 20:30:00 am i evil -- yes i am .. 20:42:04 np: Metallica - Anesthesia (Pulling Teeth) [ Kill 'Em All ] 20:52:31 gotta go to work, be back in a few... 20:53:49 hmm. is there an esolang based on pirate lingo? http://ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/piratekeyboard.jpg 20:54:09 LOL 21:17:38 gn8 21:17:38 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 21:38:43 -!- Aardappel has quit ("http://strlen.com/"). 22:18:19 -!- Sgep has joined. 22:37:53 lo all 22:38:14 18:35 < Wildhalcyon> Hmm, I can't find the sequence {1,2,5,15,50...} in the integer sequence database 22:38:29 there's an integer sequence database? 22:43:18 Any comments on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Sgeo/binbf 22:45:30 * Sgep goes to clarify something 22:53:05 Any comments/ 22:56:24 not from me 22:58:33 do you have an implementation? 22:59:30 No 23:12:24 * Sgep might write an implementation right up to the point before the Huffman encoding is actually done 23:12:29 Not now though