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01:56:17 <Gs30ng> Gee.. in current spec i hardly can recycle the udages that already used
01:57:28 <Gs30ng> if B is currently 1 or 0 and i want to make it 0, the code will be AAABCBCB
01:57:47 <Gs30ng> if B was 1 then there's no problem
01:58:00 <Gs30ng> but if B was 0 then C is now 1
02:10:16 <Gs30ng> making udages all zero is not easy... there's something to fix in spec, i think
02:27:45 <graue> guess so
02:29:19 <GregorR> Does it need to be fixed?
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02:50:59 <Gs30ng> i think this way of conditional jump is better
02:51:10 <Gs30ng> AAAB...A
02:51:19 <Gs30ng> whlie (B) { ... }
02:51:38 <WildHalcyon> Ohhh, STUFF!
02:52:16 <Gs30ng> looks too bf-like but gets rid of some problems in current conditional jump
02:52:19 <WildHalcyon> Trying to add loops?
02:52:31 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon, we can already loop
02:52:39 <Gs30ng> but it's inconvenient
02:53:00 <Gs30ng> BCAAABC would be simple loop right now
02:53:33 <WildHalcyon> Sometimes I miss calamari.. or jix... (not sure who came up with the idea anymore) using glypho test, multiply, and skip operands. Those were snazzy, but fairly difficult (except in powers - its easy to do exponentials in glypho!)
02:54:49 <WildHalcyon> gs30ng: couldn't AAAB...A be... ambiguous?
02:55:29 <Gs30ng> erm.. what do you mean?
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02:56:28 <Gs30ng> look, there's some 'chunks' in udage. like AAAA...A is a chunk. Suppose a cursor jumps *into* the chunk
02:56:45 <WildHalcyon> I mean, what if you have AAABAAAAB.. what would that do?
02:57:25 <Gs30ng> if B is 1 then AAAAB... will be executed endlessly
02:57:54 <Gs30ng> AAAB ... A  is just like [ ... ] of brainfuck
02:58:37 <WildHalcyon> Right, I understand that, but how do you know that what I just typed was AAAB A A AB and not AAAB A AAB ?
02:59:12 <Gs30ng> you mean the problem of priority?
03:00:27 <WildHalcyon> yes
03:00:35 <Gs30ng> there's some several principles i used to design udage... actually there can't be a code that can be parsed in 2 or more ways
03:00:39 <WildHalcyon> I suppose that's a good word for it
03:00:53 <Gs30ng> first the interpreter cursor meets AAA
03:00:54 <WildHalcyon> What about AAA?
03:01:03 <WildHalcyon> JUST AAA ?
03:01:11 <Gs30ng> then it take 1 more character as its operand
03:01:31 <Gs30ng> and go UNTIL it see A again
03:01:55 <Gs30ng> so AAABA does nothing but loop if B is 1
03:03:04 <Gs30ng> interpreting sequence would be:
03:04:21 <Gs30ng> 1. if i need a closing udage(like in I/O), that has the most priority. so first check if code[cursor] == closing udage
03:05:57 <Gs30ng> 2. if it wasn't a closing udage, then i check 4 letters forward: if code[cursor] == code[cursor+1] == code[cursor+2] == code[cursor+3] then start I/O and cursor+=4
03:06:40 <Gs30ng> 3. then i check 3 letters forward: if code[cursor] == code[cursor+1] == code[cursor+2] then start conditional jump operation
03:06:43 <Gs30ng> and so on...
03:07:20 <Gs30ng> i don't feel quite right with my explanation. i myself don't understand it
03:07:36 <Gs30ng> i should cleanup my thoughts and put it on wiki
03:08:55 <WildHalcyon> Yeah, Im still a lil' confused
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03:24:05 <WildHalcyon> stupid PC
03:24:48 <Gs30ng> god bless that pc
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03:46:57 <WildHalcyon> GAH!
03:47:08 <WildHalcyon> I think my power supply is screwy
03:51:23 <Gs30ng> does your pc turns off itself?
03:51:33 <WildHalcyon> no
03:51:36 <WildHalcyon> it freezes
03:51:54 <Gs30ng> well
03:51:55 <WildHalcyon> (occassionally it restarts spontaneously, but almost always when the lights flicker)
03:52:24 <WildHalcyon> I think power fluctuations from the line are transfered through the power supply to the mother board which for whatever reason is having a hard time coping
03:52:33 <Gs30ng> too many expected causes
03:52:48 <Gs30ng> i mean reasons
03:53:36 <WildHalcyon> I know, but the WEIRD thing is that it just started doing it more (MUCH more) this past weekend when I moved my computer to my living room - to an ungrounded outlet mind you
03:54:10 <WildHalcyon> Why do apartment constructors insist on placing grounded outlet covers on ungrounded outlets?
04:00:16 <GregorR> Yeesh, that's pretty bad ...
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04:01:32 <WildHalcyon> I know. Ive got a surge protector, but there's only so much that I can do
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04:07:13 <WildHalcyon_> see? Terribly frustrating
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04:26:27 <WildHalcyon_> Hmm, the trouble with interactive TRANSCRIPT is that there are no loops in IF
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04:52:22 <GregorR>  ï
04:52:24 <GregorR> ^
04:57:08 <GregorR> Ü
04:57:17 <GregorR> Man, I am never using lame sideways smileys again!
04:57:18 <GregorR> Ö
04:57:26 <GregorR> Umlaut = instant smiley
04:57:35 <Gs30ng> lol
04:57:55 <GregorR> ÿ
04:58:02 <Gs30ng> what about smileys like this
04:58:05 <Gs30ng> ^-^
04:58:15 <GregorR> Pff, using more than one character is for the weak.
04:58:34 <GregorR> Hmm, I'm running out :P
04:58:40 <Gs30ng> Umlaut is good but kinda tiresome for me to type
04:58:54 <GregorR> Do you have the compose key?
04:59:23 <Gs30ng> no compose key in korean keyboard afaik
04:59:57 <GregorR> Well, if you're using X11 and have it set up right, it'll commandeer your right alt key (or any key you please)
05:00:11 <GregorR> Then I can make an ö, for example, by alt-o-"
05:00:18 <GregorR> ñ = alt-n-~
05:00:27 <GregorR> ¡=alt-!-!
05:00:30 <GregorR> etc
05:03:47 <Gs30ng> GregorR, what do you think about changing conditional jump syntax in udage
05:04:37 <Gs30ng> i want to make it AAAB...A -> while (B is nonzero) {...}
05:05:03 <GregorR> It seems like that would be easy enough to do with the conditional jump as-is.
05:06:20 <Gs30ng> well in current spec you can't initialize all the udages that is used
05:06:49 <GregorR> Hmm .. why not?
05:07:03 <Gs30ng> "Set A 0, whatever A was"
05:08:34 <GregorR> Oh, right.
05:08:40 <GregorR> Oh yes, I remember your snippet.
05:08:51 <GregorR> Well, if you like it, that's all that matters, I'm relatively indifferent.
05:10:33 <Gs30ng> there are already several people working on implementing udage... i don't want to bother them with meaningless reason. i just wanted to check out my idea good or not
05:11:59 <Gs30ng> also i don't think udage *my* language, since it inherits a lot of concepts from other esolangs, and is developed with critical help of guys who is/was here
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05:32:48 <GregorR> 'lo
05:47:31 <Arrogant> 'lo
05:53:09 <GregorR> How are you?
05:54:48 <Arrogant> Good. Busy. All that good stuff
05:54:49 <Arrogant> You?
06:03:27 <GregorR> School's been keeping me somewhat busy.
06:03:40 <GregorR> Not so much with homework, it's been relatively light, but just with schedule headaches.
06:18:27 <Arrogant> I've got school and work, not much free time
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20:16:28 <Gs30ng> jix, are you there?
21:01:08 <jix> yes
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21:07:18 <Gs30ng> i was to change the spec of udage but hesitated because there are already some programmers implementing it
21:07:51 <Gs30ng> it's a small difference but can affect the basic structure of implementation
21:08:12 <Gs30ng> well actually i've just changed it. check the wiki out
21:08:20 <jix> i had a question ... but i forgot it
21:08:36 <jix> oh
21:08:37 <jix> bye
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21:09:01 <Gs30ng> NASA guys again... poor jix
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22:41:04 <WildHalcyon> hey foks!
22:41:18 <kipple> hello
22:42:39 <WildHalcyon> Whats up kipple?
22:42:44 <kipple> you seem to have forgotten to chmod the new glypho spec
22:43:10 <kipple> "You don't have permission to access /~bcthomp2/glypho.txt on this server."
22:46:26 <Gs30ng> because that spec is available for only esolang guru
22:46:43 <WildHalcyon> Hmmm
22:46:56 <WildHalcyon> Its been accessable in the past.. I wonder what changed
22:47:55 <WildHalcyon> try now
22:48:01 <kipple> it works
22:48:19 <WildHalcyon> I wonder how that happened
22:48:33 <WildHalcyon> Im in the process of working on a glypho webpage
22:48:45 <WildHalcyon> Nothing complex, but I haven't started writing it yet
22:49:20 <Gs30ng> webpage... i just installed MoniWiki and made some pages
22:49:48 <kipple> I'll have my Glypho shorthand interpreter up soon (hopefully)
22:50:02 <kipple> now that I finally know what the last instruction is
22:50:08 <Gs30ng> maybe you can follow this way if you feel tiresome with managing html pages or something
22:50:31 <Gs30ng> kipple, what language is it in?
22:50:35 <kipple> java
22:50:45 <Gs30ng> hmm
22:50:49 <WildHalcyon> Thats ALL thanks to you kip ;-)
22:50:51 <kipple> I just modified my Kipple interpreter, so it isn't very optimal
22:51:22 <Gs30ng> Kipple language.. was it FSM with 2 stacks?
22:51:35 <kipple> FSM? what's that?
22:51:41 <Gs30ng> finite state machine
22:51:54 <Gs30ng> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_state_machine
22:52:04 <kipple> Kipple has lots of stacks, not just two. and it's fully TC
22:52:34 * WildHalcyon is a finite state machine. My current state is: Awake and Slightly Hungry
22:52:43 <Gs30ng> lol
22:53:15 <Arrogant> Flying spaghetti monster
22:53:33 <kipple> :D
22:54:12 <Arrogant> Also Federated States of Micronesia, but nobody cares about them
22:54:16 <Arrogant> And they certainly only have one stack
22:54:21 * WildHalcyon eats a flying spaghetti monster. My current state is: Awake and Slightly Full
22:55:47 <WildHalcyon> Im lucky I live here, in a country that can afford many stacks
22:56:49 <Arrogant> Yes
22:57:00 <Arrogant> If only we were all so blessed
22:57:32 <kipple> about the execute instruction: if the stack contains the values 0 1 2 2 (top is to the right), what pattern will be executed? abcc or aabc
22:57:48 <WildHalcyon> aabc makes more sense I think
22:58:12 <Gs30ng> i also think so
22:58:31 <kipple> agreed. but the spec should probably state that explicitly
22:58:56 <WildHalcyon> Probably, I'll clarify that in the next rewrite. Im going to completely redo most of the spec for clarity
23:00:03 <kipple> I'll implement it that way then
23:01:24 <WildHalcyon> good deal
23:01:37 <WildHalcyon> I should have created glypho to be number independent :-( Oh well!
23:01:39 <WildHalcyon> too late now
23:01:47 <kipple> what do you mean?
23:02:10 <WildHalcyon> Well, it relies on addition, multiplication, and negation
23:02:44 <kipple> a bit hard to avoid...
23:02:52 <kipple> (though possible I guess)
23:03:02 <Gs30ng> i once thought about glypho's way when i've just came with the fundamental idea of udage... i screwed it up because the code with 4n length couldn't satisfy me, like, i was intending a language whose code can be written in audio file like MIDI
23:03:26 <Gs30ng> what if i write Waltz
23:03:27 <WildHalcyon> my code could fit in an audio file
23:03:53 <Gs30ng> (3-4 time maybe)
23:05:50 <Gs30ng> Waltz is always 3-x messure afaik... and if i make a glypho variant whose code is 3n length, i hardly can write code of 4-x messure music
23:06:09 <Gs30ng> well but glypho is lovely enough
23:06:11 <WildHalcyon> 3n gives you 5 symbols, fyi
23:06:23 <Gs30ng> yeap
23:06:25 <WildHalcyon> unless you allow multiple symbols and differentiate between them
23:06:46 <Gs30ng> well are 5 symbols not enough?
23:07:38 <kipple> depends on the instructions. 5 of the Glypho instructions is not enough for TC
23:08:36 <WildHalcyon> 5 bf minimalization instructions would be
23:09:26 <kipple> but I don't see why there is a problem with 3-x music. It's still a long string of symbols, and the Glypho interpreter can read them four at a time, even though the music is 3-x
23:10:03 <Gs30ng> kipple, you mean then the code always is 12n length?
23:10:21 * kipple 's english vocabulary lacks the musical terms to properly discuss this
23:11:01 <WildHalcyon> mine too do, dont worry
23:11:22 <kipple> no matter how long the code is you can still read them 4 at a time. i don't think the spec says that the number of symbols has to be divisible by 4
23:11:47 <Gs30ng> well i meant that each notes of music are symbol
23:12:02 <kipple> me too
23:12:18 <WildHalcyon> Hmm, I meant "mine too, dont worry".. that do shouldnt have been included
23:13:49 <Gs30ng> what if my code is 'abc'? is it nop or abcd(considering EOF as a symbol)?
23:14:20 <kipple> that depends on whether EOF is part of the symbol-set the interpreter recognizes
23:14:38 <Gs30ng> then is 'ab' ignored?
23:15:00 <kipple> I would think so, but Wildhalcyon would be the right person to answer that...
23:15:05 <WildHalcyon> I would be?
23:15:11 * WildHalcyon breaks out reading glasses
23:15:13 <WildHalcyon> Hmmm
23:15:39 <WildHalcyon> I never intended glypho to handle EOFs
23:16:22 <WildHalcyon> An incomplete instruction shouldn't be executed
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23:19:02 <WildHalcyon> Im almost inclined to say "ignore it", but it couldd be useful information regarding an error state
23:19:03 <GregorR-L> Boom!
23:19:30 <WildHalcyon> and Gregor explodes on the scene
23:19:36 <GregorR-L> It's what I do.
23:19:59 <WildHalcyon> its because you're wearing exploding socks
23:20:03 * GregorR-L looks at the logs.
23:20:12 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon: right... it's gonna be a cosmic mess if i miss just one letter in glypho code
23:20:24 <WildHalcyon> exactly
23:20:48 <Gs30ng> that's something we should raise exception/error...
23:21:14 <GregorR-L> OK, discussing music?
23:21:19 <GregorR-L> In Glypho/Udage?
23:21:20 <Gs30ng> but then it's gonna be hard to make a code with modern english sentence or something
23:21:22 <GregorR-L> And then EOF
23:22:00 <WildHalcyon> its already hard gs
23:22:04 <Gs30ng> i was considering audio source code even before i named my language
23:22:25 <GregorR-L> Audio or musical score?
23:22:27 <Gs30ng> well it's already hard... right lol
23:22:43 <Gs30ng> score
23:22:55 <Gs30ng> if i'm properly understanding what score is
23:23:08 <GregorR-L> And does the length of the note (quarter, eighth, sixteenth) matter, or just the pitch?
23:23:15 <GregorR-L> Gs30ng: The score being how you write out music
23:23:35 <Gs30ng> you mean bunch of notes(probably on a paper)?
23:24:04 <GregorR-L> Yeah
23:24:23 <Gs30ng> ok...
23:24:53 <GregorR-L> So, does the length matter, or only the pitch?
23:25:15 <Gs30ng> i was thinking that, for example if there's one note with 4 length, it's just aaaa
23:25:33 <Gs30ng> apparently pitch matters
23:25:43 <GregorR-L> Pitch = A, B, C, D, D#, Db, etc.
23:25:45 <kipple> well, that is entirely up to the user
23:25:53 <kipple> (in the case of Glypho at least)
23:26:14 <kipple> glypho places no restrictions on what is considered a symbol
23:26:29 <Gs30ng> it's up to implementation i think
23:26:30 <WildHalcyon> nope! Im symbol independent!
23:26:48 <WildHalcyon> You could even use glypho patterns as the underlying symbols!
23:26:48 <GregorR-L> So a carefully constructed wave file could use the amplitude of every sample.
23:26:55 <WildHalcyon> yep!!!
23:27:06 <GregorR-L> And sound terrible :P
23:27:14 <Gs30ng> glitch art
23:27:17 <Gs30ng> i love it
23:27:50 <GregorR-L> Yeah, I think I could make an Udage interpreter that takes a MIDI file as input.
23:28:01 <GregorR-L> Type 0 preferably, and it would only interpret track 0 :P
23:28:06 <GregorR-L> *channel 0
23:28:11 <Gs30ng> actually a friend of mine is preparing it
23:28:13 <WildHalcyon> Ive been looking at 2-d glypho, encoding both horizontal and vertical. You need a minimum set of symbols though...
23:28:18 <GregorR-L> lol
23:28:19 <Gs30ng> called Midage
23:28:49 <WildHalcyon> anyhow, I have a "half-assed" job interview
23:28:57 <WildHalcyon> bbl
23:29:03 <Gs30ng> bye
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23:30:23 <Gs30ng> i'm not quite sure how should i interpret a chord(and i'm also not sure is this word right)
23:30:42 <GregorR-L> Yes, chord.
23:30:42 <Gs30ng> i mean 2 notes that comes simultaneously
23:30:53 <Gs30ng> (2 or more, i think)
23:30:57 * GregorR-L will be composing Udage music soon :P
23:31:38 * Gs30ng will be painte Udage art soon XD
23:31:50 <Gs30ng> *painting
23:32:04 <GregorR-L> Then I'll put .ogg files up that can't even be interpreted :P
23:32:40 <Gs30ng> don't pass me over
23:32:43 <Gs30ng> I can interpret it
23:33:23 <Gs30ng> :)
23:33:24 <GregorR-L> You can get the pitch of each note out from a .ogg?  Even if I play chords?
23:33:32 <Gs30ng> no
23:33:40 <Gs30ng> listen -> make a score of the music
23:33:43 <Gs30ng> -> interpret
23:33:44 <GregorR-L> Ahhhhh XD
23:34:41 <Gs30ng> and i'm also thinking image source codes
23:34:53 <GregorR-L> That would be easier.
23:35:00 <GregorR-L> RXML format :)
23:35:08 <Gs30ng> or png
23:35:14 <Gs30ng> the thing is...
23:35:15 <GregorR-L> Pff, png is compressed.
23:35:19 <GregorR-L> RXML is better :P
23:36:03 <Gs30ng> there are 'newline's in image unless it is 1px height
23:36:30 <Gs30ng> ignoring them all could make sense
23:37:10 <Gs30ng> but i wonder if there's greater idea with handling 'newline's in image
23:37:21 <GregorR-L> I think we need a 2D Udage >:)
23:37:34 <Gs30ng> well instead of image, should i say Umage? :)
23:37:47 <GregorR-L> XD
23:38:45 <Gs30ng> [im|ud]age. i want to compose this words smoothly... ok anyway
23:38:51 <Gs30ng> that idea of 2d Udage
23:39:24 <GregorR-L> I'm thinking ...
23:39:31 <Gs30ng> i have no idea how would it be possible
23:40:44 <Gs30ng> this morning i found my terrible mistake... i described the tape of Udage as 2-dimensional
23:40:53 <GregorR-L> Ahaha
23:41:08 <Gs30ng> it's linear tape just like bf's one
23:42:07 <Gs30ng> it's a miracle that nobody have asked about this(seems no one realized what's wrong...)
23:42:53 <GregorR-L> The direction of program flow can be represented by two Udages .............
23:43:05 <GregorR-L> That is, the 0-locations of two Udages ..........
23:43:11 <GregorR-L> Or better yet, position 1 and 2 on the tape
23:43:25 <GregorR-L> I just thought it was 1D, I didn't even notice it ever said 2D :P
23:44:09 <Gs30ng> idea is good but...
23:45:14 <Gs30ng> ok then it could be one more variant just like trigger and glypho
23:45:26 <GregorR-L> Well, obviously.
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23:45:35 <GregorR-L> I'm not proposing changes to Udage itself.
23:45:45 <Gs30ng> name it, GregorR
23:45:47 <Gs30ng> bedage?
23:45:50 <Gs30ng> 2dage?
23:45:57 <GregorR-L> Nah, too obvious ...
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23:46:46 <GregorR-L> Udaglane = Udage + plane
23:47:30 <Gs30ng> well.. doesn't lane sound like no plane but linear?
23:48:01 <GregorR-L> I pronounce it oo-dah-glaen
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23:48:46 <GregorR-L> Well, I'll mull that over, I have to go to class.
23:48:48 <Gs30ng> what about Umage, since it's born because of image source code?
23:48:52 <Gs30ng> ok
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