00:05:02 <calamari> thanks for registering my trademark :)
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00:12:29 <GregorR> calamari: There was no (r) symbol there ...
00:14:02 <kipple> on my screen the character before the . was a (r) symbol
00:14:12 <GregorR> It's an i with a ^ :-P
00:14:18 <GregorR> î is a (r) for you?
00:14:36 <kipple> That's an A with a ~ on top + a (r)
00:14:52 <GregorR> Weird :P
00:14:56 <GregorR> You don't have UTF8 it seems.
00:15:09 <GregorR> Hola cálàmärĩ.
00:15:13 <GregorR> How's that :P
00:15:14 <kipple> propbably my iRC client
00:15:31 <kipple> the (r) became a (c)  :D
00:15:35 <GregorR> `lol
00:15:40 <GregorR> That's an i with a ~ XD
00:15:59 <kipple> î
00:16:03 <kipple> what's that for you?
00:16:08 * calamari never remembers to turn on utf8 
00:16:14 <GregorR> kipple: Nothing ...
00:16:20 <kipple> nothing?
00:16:24 <GregorR> Nothing.
00:16:26 <kipple> it was an i with a ^
00:16:36 <GregorR> lol, competing charsets :P
00:16:53 <calamari> paste the original again, I'm curious to see it now
00:16:58 <GregorR> î
00:17:19 <calamari> cálàmärî.
00:17:28 <GregorR> calamaricálà märî.
00:17:35 <calamari> looks the same
00:17:44 <calamari> weird.. :)
00:17:50 <GregorR> Spoooooooooooooky
00:18:56 <calamari> that's okay.. I am an American, so I must promote English as a world language ;)
00:19:09 * GregorR too is an American XD
00:21:03 <calamari> I should get some work done.. been fooling around with the ubuntu upgrade all day
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00:59:59 <graue> hello everyone
01:00:05 <kipple> hi
01:00:09 <graue> I wrote a probabilistic brainfuck interpreter, but it turned out to be totally useless
01:00:28 <graue> (whereas if it had worked, it would have been the most useful thing in the world, of course)
01:01:37 <graue> it represents each data cell using 1-7 bits, but simulates having 256 distinct values by incrementing and decrementing probabilistically, so that after n increments, the expected value is n greater than the value represented before
01:01:58 <graue> that behavior does not work well with the [ instruction, though
01:02:14 <graue> so I briefly considered modifying the language to make this scheme work better, but soon lost interest
01:27:25 <kipple> Anyone familiar with var'aq here?
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04:04:41 <lament> graue: hmm... i don't get it :)
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04:24:35 <graue> lament: suppose you have an integer variable that holds a value from 0 to n-1, thus it has a range of n values
04:25:01 <graue> each time you increment it, you increment it by rand()%2, and you decrement by that amount as well
04:25:15 <graue> and you treat the variable as though it holds twice the value it actually holds, when using it
04:25:26 <graue> now you have a range of 2n values
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05:01:18 <GregorR> I wrote a BF interpreter to evolve programs, and just let it go, and then it took all my hard disk space and processor, and I had to hard reboot :P
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05:01:30 <GregorR> It came out SOMETHING like while (1) fork();
05:41:42 <calamari> sounds like i got the evolution idea down pat
05:41:46 <calamari> s/i/it/
05:56:44 <Robdgreat> whoa
07:27:31 <GregorR> Part of the problem is that the "individuals" grew in a uniform environment.
07:28:02 <GregorR> With the only selection being how often it runs the ! command, the only evolution is production of the most parasitic possible lifeform :P
07:35:47 <Robdgreat> hmm
07:36:28 <Robdgreat> like that neighbor who's always borrowing your stuff
07:43:33 <GregorR> I should base it on FYB instead, so it supports interaction.
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13:13:16 <Keymaker> "Hello world!" + nl
13:13:34 <kipple> hello Keymaker
13:13:38 <Keymaker> hi
13:13:58 <Keymaker> i'm programmin' in qdeql
13:14:07 <Keymaker> finally got around to it
13:17:51 <kipple> any opinions on whether or not it's TC?
13:18:15 <Keymaker> hmmm
13:19:31 <Keymaker> not sure. i haven't yet figured out how to add new stuff to the queue (any other way than receiving input)
13:20:11 <Keymaker> i have to do one test..
13:20:50 <kipple> the only qdeql program I've ever seen is the hello world on the wiki. Haven't seen anything slightly complex
13:20:50 <Keymaker> hmmm
13:21:01 <Keymaker> there isn't anything very complex, yes
13:21:10 <Keymaker> along with the interpreter there comes some small stuff
13:21:17 <Keymaker> but i haven't looked at them yet
13:21:27 <Keymaker> there's some cat and some loop thing
13:21:54 <kipple> looks like the \ operator is the only one that actually adds new values to the queue without reading from input
13:22:14 <Keymaker> ah
13:22:19 <Keymaker> cheers
13:22:53 <Keymaker> that's the way
13:23:00 <Keymaker> although there's no way to remove stuff, right?
13:23:08 <Keymaker> (without doing output)
13:23:35 <kipple> hehe. seems so
13:23:42 <Keymaker> hmm
13:24:00 <kipple> wait, I think the \ strikes again :)
13:24:11 <Keymaker> how?
13:24:36 <Keymaker> oh, now i see!
13:24:39 <kipple> if the dequeued byt is zero it isn't enqueued again
13:24:51 <Keymaker> yeah
13:25:11 <Keymaker> this language is insane #)
13:25:24 <kipple> hmm. the hello world program starts with a -
13:25:30 <Keymaker> yes
13:25:35 <kipple> does that mean the queue doesn't start out empty?
13:25:57 <Keymaker> "Dequeueing produces 0 if the queue is empty."
13:26:01 <kipple> aha
13:26:05 <kipple> of course
13:26:27 <Keymaker> i'll try to get a quine done today
13:26:31 <kipple> and, yes. It's pretty insane (which is a compliment naturally)
13:26:35 <Keymaker> :)
13:26:55 <Keymaker> so, now i'll just examine the looping a bit and then start the work
13:36:22 <Keymaker> i don't think this language is turing complete
13:36:28 <Keymaker> or well, most probably i'm wrong, but still..
13:41:06 <kipple> well, good luck with the quine! :)
13:42:12 <Keymaker> cheers
13:42:26 <Keymaker> i'm starting to feel it's not as easy as i imagined
13:43:57 <kipple> no kidding...
13:44:07 * Keymaker dies
13:44:13 <Keymaker> see the loop_e.qd
13:44:28 <Keymaker> it seems to be an example how to make a loop..
13:56:50 <grim__> ouch
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14:02:25 <nooga> hi
14:02:34 <kipple> ho
14:07:01 * nooga decided to write a compiler for huge language
14:08:02 <nooga> i think i should register that project at sourceforge
14:08:10 <nooga> and get some guys for help :>
14:08:11 <kipple> what language?
14:09:57 <nooga> something very simmilar to LUA in it's principles
14:10:49 <nooga> but with C style syntax 
14:11:01 <nooga> ... and with some tricks from perl
14:11:47 <nooga> and i guess it will have some elements supproting OOP 
14:11:54 <nooga> maybe like in php
14:13:32 * nooga knows that sound riddiculous
14:13:38 <nooga> sounds*
14:19:43 <Keymaker> is it a new language?
14:19:56 <Keymaker> like, you make up the language?
14:21:35 <kipple> and more importantly: is it esoteric?  ;)
14:23:16 <Keymaker> hehe
14:25:51 <nooga> t's new, i'm the designer
14:26:04 <nooga> it's not esoteric
14:27:15 <Keymaker> o-k
14:27:49 <Keymaker> i've once thought about creating a new language, but didn't get anything done
14:28:10 <Keymaker> i'll stick with the esolangs
14:30:46 <nooga> hm
14:31:22 <nooga> i'm going to beat up lua :>
14:31:47 <nooga> now g2g
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15:10:13 <kipple> creating a successful non-esoteric language is probably way harder than writing a qdeql-quine...
15:11:38 <Keymaker> well, not sure ;)
15:13:44 <Keymaker> i'll eat gregor's whole collection of hats if this language is turing complete -- or if someone manages to write brainfuck interpreter in it
15:13:59 <kipple> ooh. a challenge :)
15:14:13 <Keymaker> :)
15:14:16 <GregorR> Hey, you can't just eat my whole collection of hats without permission :P
15:14:18 <kipple> not sure if Gregor would approve though
15:14:28 <Keymaker> well, what if i ask nicely?
15:14:42 <GregorR> You can eat my rather old, beaten up grey fedora :P
15:14:49 <Keymaker> hmmm
15:15:00 <GregorR> I need to get a new one anyway.
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15:35:23 <nooga> .back
15:35:29 <Keymaker> ok
15:44:45 <Keymaker> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
15:45:20 <Keymaker> sorry, i won't get that quine done, not at all
15:45:28 <Keymaker> it is too hard for me
15:45:43 <Keymaker> not even sure if it's possible
16:20:46 <nooga> a quine in what? :>
16:23:07 <Keymaker> qdeql
16:23:26 <Keymaker> can't do that :(
16:27:33 <nooga> maybe try in SADOL to relief yourself
16:28:36 <Keymaker> maybe after getting one other program done in qdeql.. :)
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17:01:58 <Keymaker> it'd help if qdeql interpreter could print out the memory state after executing program..
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17:36:44 <GregorR> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoxie
17:48:19 <jix> how does befunge handle eof?
17:50:17 <GregorR> Hmm, not sure.
18:09:38 <Keymaker> iirc that's not mentioned in the spec
18:09:46 <Keymaker> *s
18:11:12 <jix> i hate undefined eof behavior 
18:11:29 <Keymaker> yes
18:15:23 <Keymaker> making an interpreter, jix?
18:15:33 <jix> no
18:15:35 <Keymaker> ok
18:15:39 <jix> handling binary data
18:15:44 <Keymaker> ok
18:15:46 <Keymaker> in befunge?
18:15:54 <jix> yes
18:15:59 <Keymaker> ok
18:16:30 <jix> or any other language that supports div
18:16:41 <Keymaker> div?
18:16:51 <jix> 3/7
18:16:55 <jix> division
18:16:57 <Keymaker> ah.
18:17:09 <Keymaker> well, all turing complete languages support it :D
18:17:28 <jix> yes but not all have a div instruction
18:17:40 <Keymaker> yes, know that :)
18:17:46 <Keymaker> what you're doing, by the way?
18:47:29 * jix is back
18:47:35 <jix> compression algorithm
18:51:46 <Keymaker> ok
18:51:48 <jix> i'm going to use... WHITESPACE
18:51:58 <Keymaker> nice :)
18:52:09 <jix> oh forgot to check eof handling there ^^
19:00:07 <Keymaker> bye, i'll be probably back later today..
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21:46:49 <kipple> I hate windows networking
21:58:18 <kipple> hmm. lots of spamming on the wiki today >:-(
21:58:47 <jix> i found an old (befunge alike) esolang written by me (my first esolang)
21:59:13 <kipple> how old is "old"?
21:59:59 <jix> 1 year (i'm using esolangs for about a year now)
22:03:48 <kipple> is it any good? :)
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22:44:55 <GregorR> Well, I slaughtered my laptop with my evolving BF again.
22:45:02 <GregorR> I need to make in not fork() :)
22:45:22 <Robdgreat> when will you learn
22:45:26 <Robdgreat> silly Gregor
22:46:54 <GregorR> I tried to make it detect if the usecs on the clock is below 100000 before doing any real computation, so that it would essentially force itself to only run within the first tenth of every second, but I missed some :P
22:47:21 <GregorR> Plus, they still get alotted time, so 9999 forks will slow down a system a lot even if they just immediately give up control :P
22:50:11 <kipple> so, what are you evolving?
22:50:44 <GregorR> Well, I have a spec that's basically BF + a few new commands, most notably "breed"
22:51:02 <GregorR> The breed command copies the program, then randomly mutates the new one, and forks a process for the new one.
22:51:29 <GregorR> Unfortunately, because there's no environment and no interaction, there is no evolution (selection = important factor)
22:51:33 <GregorR> So really, it's just silly mutation.
22:51:54 <GregorR> I'm working on one where programs can modify other programs, thus adding a bit of competiton / selection.
22:52:04 <GregorR> I don't think I can really make an environment for BF programs however ;)
22:58:20 <Robdgreat> ok so you're forking exponentially, and expecting it not to eat your comp for lunch?
22:58:50 <GregorR> It's not /quite/ forking exponentially.
22:59:09 <Robdgreat> close enough, apparently ;)
22:59:11 <GregorR> In fact, I started with just a breed command, so, if it had not evolved another, it would have only had a max of 2 procs at a time.
22:59:19 <GregorR> But then another one randomly appeared.
22:59:26 <GregorR> And suddenly, my computer was not responding so well 8-D
22:59:36 <Robdgreat> good job
22:59:43 <GregorR> I know.
22:59:44 <GregorR> I'm a master.
22:59:51 <Robdgreat> you're something.
22:59:57 <Robdgreat> The jury's still out.
23:00:29 <Robdgreat> :)
23:00:46 <Robdgreat> you've written languages. That's more than I can say for me
23:01:13 <GregorR> According to Wikipedia, Neanderthals had a higher pitched and more nasal voice than humans.
23:01:22 <GregorR> So, Neanderthals were the nerdiest of hunter-gatherers.
23:01:26 <Robdgreat> ah
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23:07:14 <kipple> but they were also less intelligent and physically stronger. that does not fit in with your theory :)
23:08:41 <kipple> wow. this is interesting: "2005: The Max-Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology launches a project to reconstruct the Neanderthal genome."
23:09:30 <kipple> I wonder who gets to be the lucky surrogate mother :D
23:10:05 * kipple ponders what a programming language for neanderthals would look like
23:13:50 <GregorR> Umm.
23:13:54 <GregorR> Neanderthals had bigger brains.
23:14:01 <GregorR> In all likelihood they were /more/ intelligent.
23:14:28 <kipple> they did? well, bigger doesn't necessarily mean smarter, but what do I know
23:14:44 <Robdgreat> maybe neanderthals used BF
23:15:03 <GregorR> In the hominid line of evolution, intelligence has been measured basically as the ratio of brain size to body size - neanderthals had the largest, seconded by us.
23:15:24 <Robdgreat> kinda makes you wonder why they're not still around
23:15:28 <Robdgreat> oh wait, those Geico commercials
23:15:31 <Robdgreat> suggest otherwise
23:15:34 <GregorR> lol