< 1132358883 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@61.247.148.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1132360058 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haifu in 2005 seem right ? < 1132361007 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I could be wrong... < 1132361222 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was added to the language list in wikipedia in sept. 2003 < 1132361235 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_esoteric_programming_languages&oldid=1406250 < 1132361252 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1132361274 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it is from 2000-2001 as most of DMM's languages < 1132361310 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1132361345 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1132361347 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent an email to David Morgan-Mar as I noticed several langs by him I didn't have dates for < 1132361362 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's probably the best way to do it :) < 1132361367 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hopefully I'll be able to get better dates for his langs < 1132361377 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1132370515 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"omg it's lvm2!" < 1132371946 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1132371954 0 :Sgep!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1132373923 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault." < 1132373956 0 :CXI!n=Sanity@dialup-34.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1132375949 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1132376976 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1132381979 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@ppp-70-226-128-16.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132384184 0 :kipple!n=kipple@168.80-202-98.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1132384817 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable < 1132384927 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1132384931 0 :Arrogant!i=Arrogant@41.orlando-09rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132385633 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1132386439 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@ppp-70-226-128-16.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132387199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1132387200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1132388175 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip68-105-130-108.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132389215 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncovered a lang from the sange.fi mailing list: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Dumbf%2Ack < 1132389715 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice work detective :) < 1132390379 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that I had just forgotten about it... because I later post my approval of it hehe < 1132390493 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are so many bf-clones. can't expect to remember them all < 1132390751 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new lang http://web.archive.org/web/20011107102634/http://www.guldheden.com/~sandin/when/When.txt < 1132390771 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I mean new in 2001 ;) < 1132391271 0 :Keymaker!n=nobody@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1132391671 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re Keymaker < 1132391693 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1132391711 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1132391971 0 :Arrogant!i=Arrogant@242.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132392696 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1132393562 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I AM QUIT HAVE A NICE DAY" < 1132393787 0 :jix!i=jix@F3252.f.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1132395604 0 :J|x!i=jix@F357c.f.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1132395773 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1132395775 0 :J|x!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1132399138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.. 4am and I'm still not done with 2001.. oh well :) < 1132399149 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1132399153 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1132400778 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on bfgentext again < 1132400872 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to do something until my gp2x arrives (it's on the way from korea to UK atm... UK to germany is the next stage. Somewhere in germany to me is the last stage) < 1132404982 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sort is 2 bytes longer than the shortest i found :( < 1132405416 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my version: >>,[[-[->>+<<]+>>]<+<[-<<]>>,]+[>[-<.>]<[->>+<<]>>+] (using byte counting) < 1132405435 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daniel B Cristofani's version: >>,[>>,]<<[[-<+<]>[>[>>]<[.[-]<[[>>+<<-]<]>>]>]<<] < 1132408852 0 :lindi-!n=lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1132419885 0 :shmeebegek!i=HydraIRC@pool-70-19-201-243.bos.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132419905 0 :shmeebegek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1132419979 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"memtest!" < 1132420524 0 :Sgep!n=sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132422011 0 :shmeebegek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-" < 1132422128 0 :Sgeper!n=sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132422473 0 :nooga!n=nooga@ip-50.net-41.rev.inter-c.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1132422475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1132422497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows something about graphs? < 1132422983 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1132424710 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1132425298 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfgentext is about getting usable < 1132425495 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1132427925 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip68-105-130-108.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132428673 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin calamari < 1132429442 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi jix < 1132429952 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first lhs is done 90% < 1132430179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1132430197 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is really a cool language < 1132430216 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat esoteric but fast and has really cool features < 1132430222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is nice too. < 1132430242 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i need speed and there are better lisp implementations for osx < 1132430641 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to create a link to a category in an article, without becoming that category? < 1132430670 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could copy the entire url but that seems bad < 1132430695 0 :Keymaker!n=nobody@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1132430719 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Keymaker < 1132430726 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1132430769 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: i'm modifying my bfgentext to support wrapping and unwrapping code (but only 8-bit because non 8bit is stupid for text output) < 1132430787 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1132430794 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what is lhs < 1132430796 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? < 1132430800 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left hand side... < 1132430810 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get it :) < 1132430813 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not important unless you know how the program generates the bf code < 1132430824 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1132430835 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does it in 2 passes.. one is the lhs the other one is the rhs < 1132430863 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfgentext? < 1132430877 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bf output text generator < 1132430887 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like textgen.java but in lisp and a bit more flexible < 1132430895 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you're talking about bfgentext, right? < 1132430903 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1132430906 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :) < 1132430909 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was a bit confused < 1132431093 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: does textgen.java use wrapping or nonwrapping bf? < 1132431114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-wrapping < 1132431132 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1132431160 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i first wrote wrapping code only but it was only a little change to allow wrapping in the written part too < 1132431204 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do wrapping I'd need a way to compute the result of a wrap very quickly < 1132431215 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&0xFF < 1132431233 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at one time I'd figured it out, but then I've forgotten < 1132431325 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: for example ---[>----<+]> < 1132431343 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-3 -4 1 < 1132431373 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that (3*-4)&0xFF < 1132431402 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1132431405 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1132431508 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---[>+<-------]> = 219 < 1132431591 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh this is better.. no 1: ----[>---<--]>++ = 136 < 1132431888 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the equation is 254 mod x = 252 < 1132432247 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of no O(n) solution to that.. there are algorithms to find it but they take several steps or there may not be a solution < 1132432257 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I meant O(1) < 1132432275 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow.. :) < 1132438210 0 :graue!i=graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1132438221 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1132438793 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1132438975 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: if you want tables for set_to_x[sub_y>add_z<] you could take a look at my bf2a.rb look up tables < 1132439085 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: is your textgen.java still under 'active' development? < 1132439453 0 :Taliesin41!n=Miranda@B5ec0.b.pppool.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1132439465 0 :Taliesin41!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :KevinN < 1132439465 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1132439486 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is gpl, so you may change it however you like < 1132439639 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe no my bfgentext isn't for from complete... i was just interested whether you are still trying to improve it or not < 1132440038 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not.. but who knows.. someday it may become very interesting to me again.. can't predict these things :) < 1132440664 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, you're a pro, aren't you? < 1132441873 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KevinN: a pro? < 1132441895 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a professional... < 1132441939 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a professional what? < 1132441990 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pro in matters of language-design and stuff... < 1132442367 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that every turing-complete language can be converted into a turing-tarpit consisting of only 2 operators... < 1132443442 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1132443476 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KevinN: I think I'm far from being a pro.. but thank you for the compliment :) < 1132443492 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome... < 1132443499 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oehm... well... < 1132443542 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to come to the interesting part: I think the way I've found does work for every language there is so far... < 1132443571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you come up with? < 1132443705 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it IM (or: "In-Memory")... < 1132443716 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to think of it as a kind of brainfuck... < 1132443730 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, in a special sense of way... < 1132443751 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take language A that allows N different characters as input... < 1132443796 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your source is written on a tape... its pointer can only be moved to the right and the value of the current cell can only be incremented by one... < 1132443833 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimum value of a cell can be zero (no character) and the maximum value can be N < 1132443851 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you write the whole source onto the tape... < 1132443890 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're tape-writing-source (in the so-called IM-language) comes to its end, the source that was written ONTO the tape is executed... < 1132443945 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it simple: you write for example C - code onto the tape and that C - code is executed after writing the code onto the tape... < 1132444049 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the original source is executed, is'not more than 2 operators? < 1132444134 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I think operator is the wrong word... operand should be more correct... < 1132444152 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example I could make a language that you just said B for the "code", but then fed a bf program to standard input.. now all B programs are alike and one characters but the language is really defined by the interpreter of B < 1132444179 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it consists of the > - operand (move right) and the + - operand (increment) < 1132444195 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1132444216 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops? < 1132444230 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is done in-memory... ;) < 1132444245 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need some kind of second interpreter or so... < 1132444271 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but having a second interpreter (IMO) means that whatever the 2nd interpreter does added to the operators < 1132444273 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that understands the IM-source (>+++++>+++>+++++ etc.) and one that understands that source that's written on the tape... < 1132444315 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naaah... don't think so... < 1132444317 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not describe the source in terms of 0 and 1, it is the same :) < 1132444340 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see... that's the basis... < 1132444342 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have binary, which is how it is represented < 1132444353 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even normally) < 1132444359 0 :KevinN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... in some way or another... < 1132444377 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the real genetic algorithm... < 1132444535 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KevinN: I think a lang can be devised with 3 operators that perform the essentials (iteration, infinite memory, etc), but with two I think it is impossible without enforcing some outside design on the two.. for example with iota and jot, they are decoded according to lambda calculus, so that a single 0 or 1 does not perform a single task, it does several depending on context. < 1132444596 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with bitchange or bf, each instruction performs a well defined task that does not change function depending on positioning, only on state < 1132444642 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is shocked as calamari bursts into flames!
< 1132444662 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I did?! :) < 1132444665 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1132444670 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enjoys abusing /me :P
< 1132444682 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't
< 1132444687 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to parse that sentence
< 1132444704 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody want to chat on DirectNet 8-D < 1132444721 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D being a punctuation mark with roughly the same meaning as '?'