←2005-11-21 2005-11-22 2005-11-23→ ↑2005 ↑all
00:01:53 <fizzie> Oh, just realized that a more perly solution would've been:
00:01:56 <fizzie> perl -ne 'print "$_ and 255 and 0, oh my.\n" foreach unpack "C*", $_'
00:02:26 <ihope> That's perl, eh?
00:02:37 <fizzie> Witness the firepower of this fully-armed and operational perl station.
00:03:04 * ihope left Hugs downstairs
00:05:10 <calamari> bbl.. study time
00:05:11 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
00:12:56 <ihope> Which is better: taking x and returning its head or taking (x:xs) and returning x?
00:14:40 <fizzie> PROGRAM TMP
00:14:40 <fizzie> CHARACTER*80 CIN
00:14:40 <fizzie> 42 READ(UNIT=*,FMT=*,END=43) CIN
00:14:40 <fizzie> DO 44, I = 0, 79
00:14:40 <fizzie> IF(ICHAR(CIN(I+1:I+1)).NE.32) THEN
00:14:43 <fizzie> WRITE(UNIT=*,FMT=*) ICHAR(CIN(I+1:I+1)), ' AND 255 AND 0 OH
00:14:45 <fizzie> *MY.'
00:14:48 <fizzie> END IF
00:14:50 <fizzie> 44 CONTINUE
00:14:53 <fizzie> GOTO 42
00:14:55 <fizzie> 43 END
00:15:01 <fizzie> (Couldn't help myself.)
00:15:12 <ihope> Wow. What was that written in?
00:15:17 <fizzie> Fortran.
00:15:36 <ihope> Eek.
00:15:37 <fizzie> I should really have used some more esoteric fortranisms, like a computed goto or something.
00:20:28 <ihope> Well, I'm writing one in Haskell...
00:27:45 <ihope> mesh x y = concat [ [a,b] | (a,b) <- zip x y ]
00:27:46 <ihope> mesh (x:xs) y = x : (concat [ [a,b] | (a,b) <- zip y x ])
00:27:48 <ihope> firstfew 0 _ = []
00:27:50 <ihope> firstfew 1 (x:xs) = x
00:27:52 <ihope> firstfew x (y:ys) = y : (firstfew x-1 ys)
00:27:53 <ihope> lastfew 0 _ = []
00:27:57 <ihope> lastfew 1 x = last x
00:27:59 <ihope> lastfew x (y:ys) | length ys == x = ys
00:28:02 <ihope> | length ys > x = lastfew x ys
00:28:03 <ihope> scramble [x] = [x]
00:28:05 <ihope> scramble [x,y] = [x,y]
00:28:06 <ihope> scramble x | even (length x) = mesh (scramble firstfew (length x / 2) x) (scramble lastfew (length x / 2) x)
00:28:08 <ihope> foobar x = concat [ show (ord a) : scramble " 5dmdaha2\n0 o y n n5," | a <- x ]
00:28:27 <ihope> ...With that : replaced with a ++.
00:28:31 <fizzie> Are you _sure_ that's the simplest possible solution? :p
00:28:54 * Sgep gets dizzy
00:28:56 <fizzie> Here's yet another:
00:28:58 <fizzie> foo([X|_], Y) :- int_to_atom(X, X2), atom_concat(X2, ' and 255 and 0, oh my.', Y).
00:29:02 <fizzie> foo([_|Rest], Y) :- foo(Rest, Y).
00:29:03 <fizzie> ?- foo("foo.", Y).
00:29:03 <fizzie> Y = '102 and 255 and 0, oh my.' ;
00:29:03 <fizzie> Y = '111 and 255 and 0, oh my.' ;
00:29:03 <fizzie> Y = '111 and 255 and 0, oh my.' ;
00:29:06 <fizzie> Y = '46 and 255 and 0, oh my.' ;
00:29:08 <fizzie> No
00:29:22 <ihope> Can you write a shorter one that uses the string " 5dmdaha2\n0 o y n n5," to make the thinger?
00:29:48 <Sgep> hmm?
00:30:01 <Sgep> What are we trying to do?
00:30:22 <ihope> Write something that turns a string into a Foobar program that outputs it.
00:30:55 <Sgep> Are we trying to do that in as many languages as possible?
00:31:15 <fizzie> And also in as senseless ways as possible, it seems.
00:31:26 <ihope> Yep.
00:31:43 <Sgep> Are these programs able to process multi-line strings?
00:32:11 <ihope> A string is a string is a string, to these ones.
00:32:25 <ihope> Of course, they have to be in ASCII.
00:32:34 <fizzie> And my fortran implementation does not support space characters. :p
00:32:58 <ihope> That's FORTRAN for you.
00:33:19 <fizzie> (Fortran's "READ" sets the un-assigned characters to spaces, and does not return the amount of characters assigned to.)
00:34:01 <ihope> Could someone make a program that does this by bruteforcing an md5 hash?
00:36:30 <fizzie> There's that md5 collision source, but iirc it can only mangle two files to collide, not specify what the resultant hash value is.
00:40:19 <ihope> Which one?
00:40:53 * Sgep needs to leave in 5min
00:41:46 <fizzie> The one that was slashdotted few days ago.
00:41:58 <fizzie> And probably all based on that same paper.
00:42:45 <ihope> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/15/2037232&from=rss?
00:45:03 <fizzie> Yes.
00:45:37 <Sgep> Bye all...
00:45:44 -!- Sgep has quit.
00:59:04 <lament> any guitar players?
01:03:58 <fizzie> Just this one, then I'll stop writing these:
01:04:01 <fizzie> fis@colin:~/prog/tmp/ps$ gs tmp.ps
01:04:01 <fizzie> ESP Ghostscript 815.00 (2005-08-11)
01:04:01 <fizzie> Copyright (C) 2004 artofcode LLC, Benicia, CA. All rights reserved.
01:04:01 <fizzie> This software comes with NO WARRANTY: see the file PUBLIC for details.
01:04:03 <fizzie> foo.
01:04:06 <fizzie> 102 and 255 and 0, oh my.
01:04:08 <fizzie> 111 and 255 and 0, oh my.
01:04:11 <fizzie> 111 and 255 and 0, oh my.
01:04:13 <fizzie> 46 and 255 and 0, oh my.
01:04:16 <fizzie> 10 and 255 and 0, oh my.
01:04:25 <fizzie> { (%stdin) (r) file read { 10 string cvs print ( and 255 and 0, oh my.\n) print } { exit } ifelse } loop
01:19:07 <ihope> Is there any Haskell builtin to test whether a list contains a specified value?
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01:53:24 <ihope> Hmm... aleph-one is not a prime number, as it is higher than the highest prime number, but is aleph-null a prime number?
01:56:24 <ihope> I guess not, as the highest prime number, squared, is a composite number, which means there are numbers higher than the highest prime number. This means that aleph-null is also higher than the highest prime number, right?
01:57:13 -!- Sgep has joined.
01:58:09 <puzzlet> there are infinte prime numbers, and you can find a prime higher than any given number also
01:59:12 * puzzlet just broke in, so is checking the context of the discussion
01:59:53 * kipple realize he has nothing to contribute to this discussion, and therefore keeps his mouth shut
02:00:07 * Sgep needs to be oriented to this discussion
02:01:20 <puzzlet> isn't aleph-one a degree of infinte set, other than just a number?
02:01:37 <puzzlet> i don't understand what you're wondering
02:06:56 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
02:07:01 <GregorR-L> $ ls
02:07:52 <GregorR-L> echo Hmm, apparently there are no files in this directory
02:08:18 <puzzlet> hi, I'm virus
02:08:28 <lament> ihope: hint: aleph-zero is not an integer number
02:08:30 <lament> s/number//
02:08:31 <GregorR-L> I need to get by you to ---
02:08:51 <lament> ihope: is 3.89723 a prime number? Who knows?
02:09:29 <puzzlet> it's not dividable at first look
02:10:40 <lament> puzzlet: oh, there's lots of things you could divide it by.
02:12:45 <puzzlet> i know :)
02:14:23 <puzzlet> i just got curious. is there a concept something like "prime complex number"?
02:17:50 <lament> no
02:19:13 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_ideal
02:20:09 <lament> note how that says
02:20:10 <lament> "A commutative ring is a field if and only if {0} is its only prime ideal"
02:20:28 <lament> so concept of prime numbers is inapplicable to fields
02:20:45 <lament> including reals, complex numbers, rationals...
02:23:16 <lament> ihope: there's no highest prime number, so aleph-zero cannot be higher than it.
02:23:38 <lament> ihope: but aleph-zero is greater than ALL prime numbers :)
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02:55:07 <calamari> hi
03:00:33 <lament> hi
03:01:01 <Sgep> hi calamari
03:01:16 <calamari> hi lament, Sgep
03:14:08 <GregorR> $ ls
03:20:31 <calamari> . ..
03:20:57 -!- CXI has quit ("If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault.").
03:24:56 <GregorR> $ cd / ; ls
03:25:45 <calamari> . ..
03:26:02 <GregorR> lol
03:26:08 <GregorR> That's a problem :P
03:26:35 <calamari> ;)
03:27:22 <lament> . .. lost+found
03:27:44 <GregorR> ls /lost+found
03:27:46 <GregorR> $ ls /lost+found
03:27:56 <lament> ls: Permission denied
03:28:17 <GregorR> $ which ls
03:28:45 <calamari> bash: which: command not found
03:28:49 <GregorR> LOL
03:28:53 <GregorR> Convenient :P
03:29:24 <GregorR> $ echo $PATH
03:29:25 <calamari> afaik which is a debian program
03:29:40 <GregorR> calamari: Nah, which is generic (...?)
03:29:58 <lament> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin
03:30:21 <GregorR> There's no /usr !!!!!!!!!!! >_O
03:30:34 <GregorR> Well, that was fun :P
03:30:40 <lament> GregorR: so?
03:30:48 <GregorR> So where's ls coming from?
03:30:48 <lament> it's in $PATH
03:31:01 <GregorR> There's no /usr, there's no /opt, so where's ls coming from?
03:31:01 <lament> i'm guessing it's a builtin.
03:31:09 <GregorR> OK, then where's bash coming from?
03:31:12 <GregorR> Oh
03:31:15 <lament> the memory.
03:31:21 <GregorR> I guess it could have been running when I rm -rf /*'d :P
03:31:27 <lament> yes
03:31:31 <lament> statically link bash and try that
03:31:37 <GregorR> OK! 8-D
03:31:40 <lament> feel free to chroot first or whatever
03:31:50 <GregorR> No, I'd prefer to wipe out my HDD.
03:31:56 <lament> okay, as you wish
03:32:12 <lament> of course ls isn't actually a bulitin.
03:32:24 <lament> but you could use echo *
03:32:24 <calamari> good idea.. clean up the drive before the holidays
03:32:40 <GregorR> graue logged on for long enough to tell me he wasn't making the UI for DirectNet, then logged off XD
03:32:41 <lament> better yet
03:32:50 <lament> alias ls=echo ". .."
03:33:02 <GregorR> lol
03:33:04 <calamari> ;)
03:33:09 <lament> since you don't need any more functionality :)
03:33:16 <calamari> lament you could work for Lucas
03:33:38 <calamari> coming up with explanations after the fact
03:33:46 <lament> heh
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03:57:05 <cpressey> lament: i'll sit up front tomorrow. that should make it obvious who i am
03:58:30 * calamari would just stay after class or something.. ;)
03:59:11 <calamari> bring a Befunge program for him to autograph
03:59:23 <lament> haha
03:59:36 <lament> i might have one in my notebook
03:59:40 <lament> but probably not
03:59:51 <lament> cpressey: allright!
04:01:02 <calamari> and take a pic for the map page ;)
04:02:45 <lament> i could take a pic of Spotty Dotty.
04:03:47 <calamari> what's that
04:05:06 <lament> our prof's plush toy dog.
05:27:18 <calamari> bbl
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05:48:50 <GregorR> Many pings unto you my friends.
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07:45:29 <fizzie> In tcsh you could "ls-F", that's a builtin.
07:47:30 <GregorR> tcsh is for PANSIES ;)
07:52:07 -!- jix has joined.
07:53:26 <GregorR> 'ello jix
07:54:24 <jix> moin
07:57:00 <GregorR> How goes?
07:57:41 <jix> well atm i'm not going i'm sitting right in front of my computer
07:57:57 <GregorR> Heheh
07:58:09 <GregorR> Presumably you're referring to only your inertial frame of reference.
07:58:17 <GregorR> As in a static frame of reference, you are indeed moving.
07:59:21 <GregorR> On an unrelated note, I am officially the over-releaser.
07:59:27 <GregorR> Three releases in three days XD
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08:02:53 <jix> stupid french homework
08:06:14 <GregorR> I could help you ... if I knew any French at all :-P
08:20:49 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
09:23:04 -!- nooga has joined.
09:23:19 <nooga> hi
09:40:07 -!- cpressey has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:46:27 -!- cpressey has joined.
09:53:25 <nooga> hi cpressey
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13:47:58 <{^Raven^}> anyone know of references/guides aimed at a writer of an esolang?
13:58:26 <{^Raven^}> having a concrete idea and doing something with it is proving awkward
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16:01:48 <ihope> So, is SIMPLE actually a language, or just a description of one?
16:08:49 <kipple> just a joke
16:24:20 -!- jix has joined.
16:53:45 <GregorR> *yawn*
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16:55:50 <nooga> hi
16:56:16 <nooga> i've go an excellent idea :>
16:56:24 <nooga> got
17:03:53 <jix> tell us about it
17:05:16 <nooga> i will write some interpreters of esolangs for J2ME and then i will be able to play everywhere !!:D
17:05:22 <nooga> isn't it great? ;p
17:05:31 <jix> yes it is
17:05:38 <nooga> and then and then... maybe for an iPod!
17:05:39 <lindi-> nooga: interesting idea
17:05:51 <nooga> or Symbian
17:06:08 <jix> i'm going to write some for the gp2x (as soon as i get my gp2x)
17:06:23 <lindi-> nooga: what development environment are you planning to use? i've used microemulator.sf.net
17:07:20 <nooga> oh, last time i've tried to write something for mobile i used siemens sdk + jBuilder ;/
17:07:49 <lindi-> nooga: sounds proprietary
17:08:00 <nooga> yes :/
17:08:26 <nooga> so then i just got rid of those ;p
17:09:52 <nooga> the thing is... i just hate java!
17:10:32 <nooga> but now i'm motivated...
17:10:46 <lindi-> nooga: don't worry, you can develop j2me without proprietary stuff now
17:11:04 <nooga> cool
17:12:36 <nooga> brb -> switching to linux
17:12:50 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:16:13 <fizzie> Writing code with a non-qwerty keyboard isn't too fun, though.
17:16:21 -!- nooga has joined.
17:16:23 <nooga> .
17:16:47 <fizzie> 19:15:50 < fizzie> Writing code with a non-qwerty keyboard isn't too fun, though.
17:17:04 <nooga> hmm, that's right
17:17:29 <fizzie> My TI-86 has a befunge interpreter, but it's not really very usable, and that thing at least has different keys for all letters.
17:17:39 <nooga> but it makes it even more 'hardcore'
17:18:28 <fizzie> I've been planning a j2me scheme interpreter once or twice.
17:20:44 <kipple> I ported my java brainfuck interpreter to j2me. worked fine in the emulator, but not on my phone :(
17:21:24 <fizzie> J2ME implementations in phones are horribly horrible. (At least in Nokia's phones, no experience with other manufacturers.)
17:21:33 <kipple> I have a siemens
17:22:52 <fizzie> I had a Siemens M50 thing, and didn't run into any problems with its j2me implementation. (Wrote an IRC client and a bus-schedule-thing for it.)
17:23:11 <nooga> hm
17:23:20 <nooga> i have siemens S55 ;p
17:23:39 <fizzie> Whereas my current N-Gage multimedia mobile gaming deck device (the cheapest S60 device when I bought it) has a rather horrible jvm.
17:23:40 <nooga> shish... i think i must download netBeans
17:24:53 <fizzie> And the 6600 we had at work was even worse. It claims to support midp2 and mmapi, but it's implemented so badly it's ~useless.
17:25:09 <nooga> hah
17:25:16 <nooga> and that's why i hate java
17:25:28 <nooga> 111 MB IDE+SDK
17:25:58 <fizzie> Well, Nokia's S60 Symbian SDK is about the same size.
17:26:15 <fizzie> (And HP's printer driver is >500 MB, so...)
17:26:33 <nooga> wo and yay... 4%
17:27:45 <kipple> I don't have a USB-cable for my phone (or a wireless connection), so I have to pay for each time i download a program into it. Which is why I gave up debugging it
17:28:00 <lindi-> nooga: why do you must download netbeans? ;)
17:28:14 <fizzie> "Description: If the FullScreenMode of Canvas is changed to true, the Commands in the Options menu don't have any effect. If any soft key is pressed, the Options menu is shown, but choosing a Command does nothing. Solution: No solutions exist for software version 3.42.1 or 4.09.1."
17:28:49 <fizzie> "Description: Commands can be added to full screen but they do not work. Solution: No solutions exist for software version 3.42.1, but this issue has been corrected in software version 4.09.1."
17:28:59 <nooga> lindi-: i don't imagine coding in *JAVA* without IDE
17:29:05 <fizzie> Two adjacent entries from the nokia 6600 j2me known issues document.
17:29:08 <fizzie> Eclipse's free.
17:29:12 <lindi-> nooga: why not use eclipse?
17:29:23 <nooga> because it's even bigger and hard to configure
17:29:27 <lindi-> both debian and fedora include it
17:29:52 * kipple is still using a straight text editor to code java.
17:29:57 <lindi-> even I managed to import stuff to it and i rarely use these so called IDEs
17:30:27 <lindi-> nooga: well, take another look and ask if you hit problems
17:35:30 <nooga> HM
17:35:42 <nooga> i wonder is there eclipse for suse 10
17:37:17 <fizzie> http://www.novell.com/products/linuxpackages/professional/eclipse-gtk2.html says there is.
18:04:27 <nooga> yea 96%
18:39:55 <lindi-> fizzie: but that probably runs on some proprietary jvm
18:48:19 <nooga> idk
18:49:02 <nooga> now i must go and do my home...fu**ing...work
18:49:06 <nooga> shihs
18:49:09 <nooga> bye
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19:07:27 <Keymaker> evenin'
19:09:48 <kipple> 'lo
19:12:01 <Keymaker> hi
19:12:21 <Keymaker> kipple: by the way, remember codename: rgb?
19:12:32 <kipple> yeah ...
19:12:42 <Keymaker> perhaps we should continue some time..?
19:12:48 <kipple> perhaps
19:13:01 <Keymaker> :)
19:15:02 * kipple looks up codename:rgb on the wiki
19:20:42 <kipple> hmm. if each instruction has a pre-determined number of arguments then we don't need to use B for argcount
19:21:00 <Keymaker> d'oh
19:21:01 <Keymaker> true
19:21:28 <kipple> though it is nice to be able to use an arbitrary number of args for certain instructions
19:21:34 <Keymaker> yeah
19:21:44 <Keymaker> so, it may be good choice, afterall
19:22:46 <kipple> I'm not sure. There are probably other uses for the B too
19:24:05 <Keymaker> hmm
19:27:40 <Keymaker> i'd like to create something oldskool esolang..
19:28:01 <Keymaker> like some bizarre basic..
19:28:07 <Keymaker> BB :)
19:28:39 <kipple> that would be against all that basic stands for :)
19:28:44 <kipple> unbasic
19:28:52 <Keymaker> hehe, yeah
19:29:04 <kipple> kind of like VB
19:29:07 <Keymaker> hehe
19:30:09 <kipple> there should be more languages with COME FROM
19:30:17 <Keymaker> what that means?
19:30:29 <kipple> it's an instruction. the opposite of GOTO
19:30:35 <Keymaker> haha
19:30:42 <Keymaker> how does that work?
19:30:46 <kipple> I think it appeared in INTERCAL first
19:31:22 <kipple> if you have a statement that says COME FROM 23, then when the program reaches line 23 it jumps to the come from
19:31:41 <Keymaker> cool! :)
19:32:18 <kipple> what happens when you have several come froms with the same line# could be a lot of fun
19:32:31 <Keymaker> hehe
19:33:04 <kipple> guess forking the program is the most natural solution
19:34:57 <kipple> hmm. occult is the opposite of visual, right? Occult Basic could be an interesting language :)
19:35:06 <Keymaker> :)
19:37:10 <Keymaker> that kind of language probably shouldn't output anything nor let user know anything of its state
19:38:39 <kipple> according to the wikipedia " A very minimal BASIC syntax only needs the LET, PRINT, IF and GOTO commands."
19:39:01 <Keymaker> what's LET doing, by the way?
19:39:10 <kipple> variable assignment I suppose
19:39:14 <lindi-> yep
19:39:16 <Keymaker> oh, yeah
19:39:19 <lindi-> LET A = 1
19:39:24 <Keymaker> now i remember..
19:39:40 <Keymaker> hah, now that's called minimal basic instead of esoteric :D
19:47:39 <Keymaker> this is fun..
19:47:47 <Keymaker> i'm planning "bizarre basic"
19:48:10 <Keymaker> it'll have some assembler features
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19:49:15 <kipple> arrays and variables are really unnecessary. you could instead store data in the program space.
19:49:25 <kipple> then self-modification also becomes possible :)
19:49:28 <Keymaker> :D
19:50:34 <Keymaker> that's true, although it's difficult in language where instructions are long (in other words, not one character)
19:50:54 <Keymaker> i think i'll have variables, but allow selfmodifying whole lines
19:50:59 <kipple> true. but difficult is a good thing, right? ;)
19:51:03 <Keymaker> hehe :)
19:51:52 <Keymaker> oh no..
19:52:15 <Keymaker> the problem will be the implementation.. well, must ask jix once the specs is done :)
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20:30:59 <kipple> shouldn't be that hard to implement a basic-like language
20:31:14 <Keymaker> well, with my real-language-programming-skills, yes
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20:56:09 <calamari> hi
20:56:20 <Keymaker> hi
20:56:32 <Keymaker> just posted my second entry at your forum
20:56:35 <calamari> hi Keymaker
20:56:38 <calamari> cool!
20:56:57 * GregorR-L has been too busy with /real/ code to write BF ;)
20:57:04 <Keymaker> :P
20:57:14 * calamari just got done taking an exam.. now I can work on my entry without feeling guilty
20:57:21 <Keymaker> hehe
20:58:22 <calamari> nice job
20:58:30 <Keymaker> cheers
20:59:08 <calamari> I assume your 2nd entry was shorter than the first? :)
20:59:13 <Keymaker> yeah
20:59:18 <calamari> :)
20:59:19 <Keymaker> about 170 bytes
21:02:49 <calamari> I updated your original entry a tad
21:02:51 <GregorR-L> Our classroom just crashed :P
21:03:10 <calamari> any deaths or dismemberments?
21:03:28 <GregorR-L> No, just the technology is all dead.
21:04:14 <Sgep> wha forum?
21:04:20 <calamari> scream out "Thank you for choosing Microsoft products"
21:04:36 <calamari> Sgep: http://esoforum.kidsquid.com/
21:04:58 <GregorR-L> calamari: How did you know it was MS? ;)
21:05:14 <calamari> because I just knew
21:06:19 <ihope> Hmm... self-modifying Foobar?
21:06:19 <calamari> my weird Linux crashes aside (probably my fault or hardware related), most Linux machines I've used are rock solid
21:06:51 <calamari> of course, I can ssh into a machine and fork-bomb..
21:07:30 <ihope> Wikipedia is getting slower, it seems...
21:09:50 <Keymaker> calamari: ok. by the way, i just checked, and the first was 574 bytes
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21:10:23 <lindi-> ihope: what are they using to run the search engine nowadays?
21:10:47 <ihope> I dunno.
21:12:16 <Keymaker> i'll go.. ZZzzZzz.. good night
21:12:22 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
21:15:54 <ihope> Router lag: 22ms
21:16:28 <ihope> 'Net lag: 140ms
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21:39:18 <calamari> bbl
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22:00:40 <ihope> I just realized there's an esoteric programming language already in common use, and often called "legalese".
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23:14:54 <mad> hey
23:16:07 <Sgep> himad
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