< 1149466169 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1149466262 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has worked out the definitive difference between scripting languages and "real" programming languages: in scripting languages, a simple string can be like 'foo' or "foo", but "real" languages only accept one of these (usually the former).
< 1149466290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the altter < 1149466292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1149466303 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, *latter < 1149466310 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, thanks < 1149466314 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, real languages doesn't have strings... < 1149466324 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counterexample: Smalltalk < 1149466543 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counterexample: C++ < 1149467269 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1149467321 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really all to do with how short a short program is. < 1149467327 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quoting rules are just a symptom of that. < 1149467400 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad style for the operator that puts objects into a hash-like object to modify the objects as they are put in? :-) < 1149467588 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it that hard to write "modify, then add"? < 1149467607 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, some people would get annoyed at having to put modify *everywhere*. < 1149467617 0 :wildhalcyon_!n=chatzill@c-69-243-86-169.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149467632 0 :wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_wildhalcyon_ < 1149467648 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright!... my system has recovered from a serious error! < 1149467651 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love XP < 1149467673 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modify (if modify (modify 3 + modify 2) == modify 5 then modify (putStr (modify "Success")) else modify (putStr (modify "Failure"))) < 1149467713 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1149467718 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a roguelike < 1149467736 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language? < 1149467740 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby < 1149467747 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1149467805 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while Haskell absolutely rocks on the complicated-datastructure-initialisation front, it sucks on the complicated-datastructure-mutation front. < 1149467838 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each object has an ID, knows its position, and has a reference to the map it is on. < 1149467881 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each level contains a hash from IDs to objects that it contains, and a grid of tiles, each of which contains a set of IDs of objects that are in it. < 1149467927 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the map[pos]=object operator updates all of these except the object's ID < 1149467943 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly for the map.delete(object) operator < 1149468293 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty thorough. Most of it is all pretty basic RL stuff though < 1149468414 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1149468432 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo, all that was in the wrong window < 1149468452 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall add the relevent pre-comment < 1149468457 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad style for the operator that puts objects into a hash-like object to modify the objects as they are put in? :-) < 1149468464 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ there ^^ < 1149468658 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149470160 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? Wuh? < 1149470215 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1149470335 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah that's bad style < 1149470363 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the roguelike called? < 1149470381 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring? < 1149470954 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waste of time? < 1149470977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have a name yet < 1149471063 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give it a name! :-P < 1149471705 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I'm more than halfway through this song and I didn't notice it was playing? < 1149472604 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye gods! I actually managed to eliminate some rows on tetris level 10 < 1149472625 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee. < 1149473060 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1149473099 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a bad sign that my computer has trouble keeping up with the redraw rate of tetris < 1149473111 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I am playing the Gnome version, I suppose < 1149473174 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play hextris, man. < 1149473180 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hextris is teh rawx0rz < 1149473229 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks of a way to define "computer of everything"
< 1149473279 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to build a Turing machine that computes everything that can be computed, but how can we define whether or not a machine computes something or not? < 1149473377 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1149473382 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask edwinb < 1149473387 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on this network < 1149473395 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my timezone, too < 1149473399 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mention my name < 1149473405 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1149473406 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hates you, eh? < 1149473413 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd you do to 'im? < 1149473416 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on second thoughts, maybe do mention my name < 1149473426 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it ... nasty? Vile? Evil in perverse ways? < 1149473429 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it's bedtime. < 1149473434 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on third thouhgts, don't bother him with it < 1149473549 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: hehe I guess I need more than a new video card.. my computer froze up when I ran flightgear, then a minute later killed fgfs (ran out of memory) < 1149473568 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs ghextris
< 1149473634 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The answer to the well-known P=NP problem, eh? Well, I can answer that easily. It's the most simple thing in the world--it do < 1149473904 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 the debian menu standards
< 1149473919 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION concurs.
< 1149473920 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows me to get my menu items the same everywhere < 1149473942 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ratmenu, the menu designed for ratpoison users < 1149473966 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ghextris has no settings :-S < 1149473994 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's on 0.9.0 < 1149474068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so? < 1149474419 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this version is a bit unpolished... < 1149474449 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you recommend I get it from/? < 1149474581 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hextris has never been polished :P < 1149474945 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghextris doesn't even have a loss notification < 1149474982 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149475241 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is quite tricky < 1149475251 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only scoring a couple of rows per game < 1149475289 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetris is laaaaaaaame < 1149475510 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank goodness this is hextris < 1149475512 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1149475787 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1149475798 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: That's why I told you to play hextris ^^ < 1149475821 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1149475848 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is mildly amused at the idead of an esolanger considering something lame
< 1149475890 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things are lame < 1149476081 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like spelling "dude" "dood" < 1149476097 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And having referencins to AYB in your /quit message. < 1149476101 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*references < 1149476108 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst spelling ever :P < 1149476114 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not lame at all < 1149476123 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or typing like you're in a chatroom. < 1149476130 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AYB? < 1149476136 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your base < 1149476151 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1149476151 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@h-69-3-55-16.dnvtco56.dynamic.covad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149476163 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in me /quit message < 1149476265 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't see a /quit message
< 1149476278 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quit message that shows when he quits, not when he /parts :P < 1149476284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1149476308 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you use a /part message for that < 1149476319 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/part AYBRB2U < 1149476389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever < 1149476468 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood" < 1149476703 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@h-69-3-55-16.dnvtco56.dynamic.covad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149476711 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1149476838 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1149477072 0 :_coder_!n=coder___@user-12l2j6u.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149477252 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed at 3:13am ("This is a channel dedicated to a subject almost unrivalled in its ability to have unappreciatev people call it lame.")
< 1149477383 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said esolangs were lame < 1149477769 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOLANGS ARE LAME < 1149477774 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UR ALL TEH FAGZ0RZ < 1149477776 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROFLCOPTER < 1149481714 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1149483084 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip68-231-173-86.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149483427 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Calamari < 1149483468 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like your new website, but the articles are all missing. I remember reading about ESO OS, and now...? < 1149488408 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, is it also missing from the old section? < 1149488490 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kidsquid.com/old/programs/eso/catseye/catseye.html < 1149488536 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right tho, I need to finsih transferring all that stuff back over < 1149489926 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, great website < 1149489933 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks for the former linky < 1149490167 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z3.ca/~lament/tankers.jpg < 1149490275 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice black and white. Where is that? < 1149490277 0 :_coder_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1149490317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vancouver < 1149490371 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's such a beautiful area < 1149490381 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1149490385 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know :D < 1149490400 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you been here? < 1149490489 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long time ago, yes. < 1149490494 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to live in Seattle < 1149490500 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those were the good old days < 1149490516 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been to Vancouver since I was little. Before I could drive a car, at least. < 1149490533 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to go again, but every time I'm back in Washington, I've got so much other stuff going on < 1149490587 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still can't drive a car and i'm 21.... < 1149490612 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_wildhalcyon_: thanks.. I decided to let dokuwiki do all the design :) < 1149490616 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well I received my license at 17, and it was at least a couple years prior < 1149490639 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari, I'm working on a similar project, which is why I was interested. < 1149490654 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, dokuwiki did an excellent job then < 1149490662 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a decent wiki < 1149490671 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't figure out how to add a comment though < 1149490673 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to customize on it a little bit tho < 1149490677 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah? < 1149490686 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be broken.. letm e try it < 1149490691 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I tried to edit the comments page, it told me to click the comments link instead... which didn't really go anywhere < 1149490742 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems to work here, except that the page is locked < 1149490762 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clicked Comments, then Create this Page (or Edit this page) < 1149490780 0 :nooga!i=nooga@ip-50.net-41.rev.inter-c.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1149490853 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I should just ignore the text on the edit page for comments that says to click the comments link? < 1149490861 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just getting confused is all < 1149490868 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be blind.. I don't see that tgext < 1149490927 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows up when I tried to edit comments:main < 1149490948 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh.. that < 1149490955 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose I can ignore it hten < 1149490957 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1149490972 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that is because a bunch of idiots were editing pages with things like "does this work?" < 1149490985 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wanted them to use the comments page/playground < 1149490995 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well alrighty then < 1149491009 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for noticing the problem hehe < 1149491028 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, its just me being a little obtuse and not wanting to risk editing the wrong thing < 1149491042 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah you're fine < 1149491065 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to think of a way to not display that text when editing the comments page < 1149491079 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks again for mentioning it :) < 1149491082 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worries. < 1149491108 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1149491108 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I saw on the forum that you're looking at reviving ESO? < 1149491124 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am? :) < 1149491130 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't post in the thread because apparently threads close quickly. < 1149491132 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, its not you < 1149491136 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone else. < 1149491145 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reember posting some time ago when they were talking about eso, with some ideas < 1149491160 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only early november :-) < 1149491171 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 7 mos ago ;) < 1149491200 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some work on the original eso's but it never went anywhere because nobody would decide < 1149491214 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was that no one was in charge and a comitte wasn't forming < 1149491236 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah.. that's part of what makes online collaborative projects difficult < 1149491240 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closest I've made to it is bos (bf os) < 1149491349 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember that. How well did it work? < 1149491379 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it works, but I was cramming things into the 512 byte bootsector, so the environment is rather hostile ;) < 1149491409 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, interesting < 1149491427 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used an i/o-based interface to extend bf < 1149491441 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1149491471 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, bf cannot read/write disk sectors, but if you wrote the correct escape sequence to output, now it can (it is intercepted) < 1149491510 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1149491512 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default program is a "quine" that reads itself from the floppy < 1149491526 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it cheats, but demonstrates the system < 1149491553 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually a pretty useful interface. It was something I was looking into developing for CRAWL before it finally left the realm of sanity < 1149491570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i/o interface has been expanded into PESOIX < 1149491606 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, amazingly enough, I just googled to read up upon < 1149491624 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was all out of the original eso ideas.. they were just never used until I did it < 1149491687 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a good idea. I was trying to find a way to add some more powerful program control to Befunge and considered IP- and I/O- abstraction layers < 1149491713 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on a pesoix filter, but ran into some major troubles < 1149491740 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was that any interp using stdout/in could be automatically extended < 1149491753 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's what I liked about it. < 1149491786 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, linux seems to have some major issues with streams (blocking/non blocking, all that) < 1149491813 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by blocking and non-blocking? < 1149491825 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, blame it on the OS :P < 1149491827 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for example < 1149491845 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter writies something to stdout, but doesn't flush < 1149491861 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, pesoix doesn't know, so it's just waiting around < 1149491871 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... not even GNU/Linux-specific ... that's not even UNIX-specific. That's C. < 1149491875 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then deadlock, because the interpreter was waiting on a response < 1149491888 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: quit trying to make sense ;) < 1149491901 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then quit blaming the OS I love so very much :P < 1149491915 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1149491948 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blames linux for Kevin Federline's career.
< 1149491982 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_wildhalcyon_: anyhow, the jist of it is that interpreters would have to be redone anyways to include flush commands, if they aren't already there < 1149492015 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its not as automatic as we all wanted.. unless someone figures out some workaround < 1149492033 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably should be. C is funky with that sort of stuff. < 1149492060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write(2) to file descriptor 1, the standard output one, instead of using the C library streams, you don't need to flush it. < 1149492083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The idea was to use interpreters absolutely unmodified, so what they do isn't in our control. < 1149492092 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whats the difference between rewriting the interp to do that vs adding a flush < 1149492095 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining an environment variable controlling whether libc uses blocking I/O ... < 1149492112 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: thanks hehe < 1149492169 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to the BOOTDISK-howto
< 1149492189 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, bad caps on that hehe < 1149492220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, really: whether stdout is line-buffered or not has nothing to do with blocking/non-blockingness; the write doesn't block, the output just isn't visible yet. < 1149492234 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, yeah, sorry. < 1149492245 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad terminology. < 1149492252 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, sorry < 1149492262 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its internal buffering < 1149492277 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems liek that wasnt the only problem tho < 1149492287 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a major one < 1149492316 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh here go.. populating the root filesystem < 1149492348 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know enough about OS design to understand that. < 1149492359 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched majors before I had to take the OS course < 1149492398 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if an LD_PRELOAD could be used ...
< 1149492420 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, but it'd be library specific < 1149492449 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would also mean that interpreters couldn't be statically linked < 1149492460 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's true :( < 1149492466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, fixing badly-written interpreters should be the interpreter-writer's job; the C standard says that only writing a newline or calling fflush() is guaranteed to make output visible. Anyway, you can always setbuf(stdout, 0); before executing the interpreter. < 1149492483 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that survive exec? < 1149492499 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that it didn't ... sort of the whole problem. < 1149492590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any official documentation on that, but it does survive exec here. < 1149492599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1149492603 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1149492621 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... feel stupid. < 1149492623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps not! < 1149492626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1149492630 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel stupider < 1149492635 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.. more stupid? < 1149492637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have forgotten to recompile my test program. :p < 1149492641 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure.
< 1149492667 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_wildhalcyon_: dumberer < 1149492678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it does not. Aw. < 1149492699 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go calamari < 1149492707 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting if it survived, where would that information be stored? < 1149492722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should read the context to this discussion. < 1149492725 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Figured. std* are abstractions created at runtime, so I was wondering. < 1149492748 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats nice, my statically linked copy of busybox seems to have disappeared.. good thing I noticed that before I really needed it < 1149492832 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Whoot 2 Busybox] < 1149492839 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats busybox? < 1149492862 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a replacement for a lot of the gnu utils that are much smaller < 1149492874 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All compiled into one executable. < 1149492896 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, alrighty < 1149492923 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for embedded systems huh? < 1149492947 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1149492948 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(according to the website) < 1149492985 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love embedded systems. Reading an article on car computers is what made me chose Comp Sci as a major. < 1149492994 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking comp sci courses is what made me switch to Electrical Engineering. < 1149493007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course there's _always_ a workaround: perhaps adding an evil library (to mangle the stdout in an __attribute__((constructor)) routine) to LD_PRELOAD might work, if stdout exists already when those are called.) < 1149493008 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah < 1149493077 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: which menu is devfs under in 2.4? < 1149493095 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, don't know off the top of my head ... < 1149493121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall it'd be with the other file systems (ooh!), but that might be the situation in 2.6. < 1149493129 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh maybe its only 2.6 < 1149493142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's deprecated in 2.6 in favour of udev, anyway. < 1149493149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it already existed in 2.4. < 1149493200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should focus on work now, though. < 1149493204 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried a 2.2 kernel, but it wouldn't compile.. gcc is probably too new < 1149493311 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with 0.99 < 1149493341 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I don't use the minix fs < 1149493356 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snaps* < 1149493528 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, it is in the filesystem menu, but I didn't have experimental selected so it was invisble < 1149493745 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how devfs survived for like a year :-P < 1149493774 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what was wrong with it? worked for me < 1149493804 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't know. < 1149493808 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always worked great for me. < 1149494276 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! I updated the forum with my CRAWL progress! < 1149494399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1149494400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1149494478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that udev's better. :p < 1149494503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Earlier 2.6 kernels had some deprecation rational in the kernel help, but none of the ones I have source for seem to include devfs at all.) < 1149494517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/al/ale/ < 1149494520 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when the cloud bursts thunder in your ear < 1149494533 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1149494535 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me < 1149494574 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds a lil' kinky nooga < 1149494584 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay out of those.. erm... iffy channels < 1149494625 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a quote < 1149494629 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: heh, i managed to avoid devfs completely, never used it on any machine :) < 1149494637 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Pink Floyd's song ;p < 1149494655 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same question, no answer: http://kerneltrap.org/node/4893 < 1149494668 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: hehe < 1149494690 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: suuuuure it is < 1149494705 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, knowing pink floyd, that could still be iffy < 1149494709 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like floyd, so you're good < 1149494723 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1149494724 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g2g < 1149494727 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1149494739 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1149494811 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, its 3am here and I've gotta get up at 8, so I'll catch you folks later < 1149494817 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya wild < 1149494861 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night folks < 1149494868 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]" < 1149495173 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hacks the kernel source..
< 1149495388 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed! :) < 1149495408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hack, hack, hack the boat. < 1149495412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it "row"? < 1149495461 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i'm quite sure i had such a floppy somewhere < 1149495471 0 :sedimin!n=juraj@gateway04.isper.sk JOIN :#esoteric < 1149495485 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1149495521 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: It is getting confused because I'm doing the rather odd thing of not having a compressed root filesystem, so it figures it must be on a different disk < 1149495526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall also having a combined boot+root disk which did not require a keypress. But it's been a long time since last booting with a floppy. < 1149495558 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, the code checks for that situation < 1149495570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if it is compressed, that is < 1149495583 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1149495590 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i even found the script i used to generate it, http://rafb.net/paste/results/DaAgyd94.html < 1149495594 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow :) commenting out the keypress request did the trick < 1149495635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi; "Language: C++"? < 1149495645 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't bother to change the default :P < 1149495665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.C:1:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #! < 1149495665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.C:5:7: error: invalid suffix "k" on integer constant < 1149495665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.C:6:7: error: invalid suffix "k" on integer constant < 1149495665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.C:11:7: error: invalid suffix "k" on integer constant < 1149495665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.C:2: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before ‘=’ token < 1149495669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It doesn't compile!" < 1149495709 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now tell rafb.net to add automatic compilation as a feature ;) < 1149496905 0 :sedimin!n=sedimin@gprs.t-mobile.sk JOIN :#esoteric < 1149497474 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood" < 1149498628 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149502164 0 :kipple!n=kipple@250.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149507815 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1149508669 0 :jix!i=jix@L6299.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1149510890 0 :wooby!n=alan@ny-lancastercadent4g1-3a-236.buf.adelphia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149511845 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1149513531 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmm... the ESO/OS makes no mention of PEOSIX) < 1149513793 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"< fizzie> Still, fixing badly-written interpreters should be the interpreter-writer's job; the C standard says that only writing a newline or calling fflush() is guaranteed to make output visible." <---- so, change the esoapi to put a newline at the end of every command? < 1149518862 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The n option is slow." "There is no way to selectively follow symbolic links." :-) < 1149519284 0 :ihope!n=bar@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149519301 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sheesh, it should be easy to write an Unlambda interpreter in Unlambda! < 1149519326 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to write an lazy-k interpreter in lazy-k < 1149519331 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you got the evaluation order issues, but that shouldn't be too durn important. < 1149519467 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just parse all your input, using the "reprint character read" function to deal with the output functions. Then use a fold to turn the resulting tree into Unlambda code, and have the rest of the interpreter evaporate. < 1149520085 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the interpreter would be vaporware! :-) < 1149520258 0 :Arrogant!i=Scott@76.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149520874 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1149520898 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes.
< 1149521018 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so all the most popular channels are about Linux? < 1149521050 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: on freenode? < 1149521055 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1149521109 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say what are most popular but certainly free software related channels are more popular than linux related, #kernelnewbies is the only linux related channel i know < 1149521160 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A /list will tell you what the most popular channels are :-) < 1149521172 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait. < 1149521182 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A /join'll do it on my client. < 1149521266 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merging #gentoo, #ubuntu, and #debian would produce a large channel :-) < 1149521316 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: yes but none of those is about linux < 1149521323 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1149521348 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then. All the most popular channels are about GNU/Linux distributions. < 1149522067 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-e43ee155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1149522840 0 :nooga!i=nooga@ip-50.net-41.rev.inter-c.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1149522902 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: dunno, i'm not on any such channel on freenode < 1149523438 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1149524797 0 :GregorR-W!n=chatzill@jffwprtest.jf.intel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149524800 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, so all the most popular channels are about Linux? < 1149524830 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Freenode, all the most popular channels are about FOSS, and GNU/Linux is the flagship. < 1149524897 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahm < 1149524929 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enjoys responding out of context.
< 1149525017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is supposedly all about FOSS. < 1149525050 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, apparently *I'm* all about FOSS, as I had mistaken Freenode for one of the big guys for a longish time. < 1149525108 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric here, #nethack here, #haskell here, #math here, #spore there, and #sporks somewhere else. < 1149525125 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is /not/ one of the "big guys" < 1149525130 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is one of the niche guys. < 1149525145 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a good thing, most IRC networks are terrifying, whereas Freenode is a pleasurable experience. < 1149525166 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: fack < 1149525197 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1149525198 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1149525200 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't frequent anything at any of the "big guys". < 1149525203 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full ack... < 1149525222 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google "define:fack". < 1149525225 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arr < 1149525231 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn IRC :P < 1149525233 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one result: "One circle of a coil of rope." < 1149525251 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, awesome. < 1149525277 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quakenet, EFnet, um... IRCnet? Then that other one... < 1149525297 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is building a robot that is going to KILL YOU ALL!
< 1149525302 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undernet! < 1149525429 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how come the big guys seem to use one-letter service bots? I guess because it's harder to typo one of those, and such typos probably won't be more than 3 characters long at worst, so all nicks that are 3 letters or shorter could be banned. < 1149525432 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ih < 1149525445 0 :ih!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Owned by someone else? Aww. < 1149525448 0 :ih!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1149528366 0 :sedimin!n=juraj@gateway04.isper.sk JOIN :#esoteric < 1149528372 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1149528419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1149528437 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are things going? < 1149528444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly < 1149528451 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1149528469 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite the same < 1149528495 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's monday morning and i'm at work < 1149528506 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's morning there? < 1149528510 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you at? < 1149528520 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have evening here, and I came back recently < 1149528611 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay timezones :) < 1149528616 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- also at work Monday morning < 1149528687 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you feel bad, just remember: somewhere on earth there's a beautiful sunrise right now :D < 1149528815 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever you are feeling very small or insecure, just remember how unlikely is your birth! And hope that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, because it's bugger all down here on Earth! < 1149528865 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1149528885 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timezones truly rule < 1149528890 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[For some reason, lament's line seemed Pythonesque to me :P] < 1149528900 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1149528932 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me the Whenever esolang < 1149528983 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen guys, i have one kind of problem < 1149528989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lucky < 1149528992 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have many kinds of problems < 1149529007 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction - i have one kind of problem right now :) < 1149529029 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how to emulate infinite array with a queue? I just can't get it < 1149529082 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need two queues, IIRC < 1149529098 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, so it's not possible with one < 1149529146 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1149529156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1149529157 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1149529161 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1149529163 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1149529163 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not :) < 1149529163 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too tired to think about this :P
< 1149529177 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired and it's just monday morning? :) < 1149529191 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sedimin: Couldn't get to sleep last night :( < 1149529192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just" < 1149529211 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious answer to your question is that infinite arrays don't exist. < 1149529217 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1149529221 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to emulate an array of arbitrary length with a queue. < 1149529247 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not obviously mean truly infinite array, as one cannot have infinite memory and stuff < 1149529249 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1149529256 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not possible to emulate an infinite array even with two queues < 1149529261 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's take and array of arbitrary length < 1149529273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1149529278 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just put it in a queue < 1149529298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember what index is at the head of the queue < 1149529306 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head? < 1149529308 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any time you need to get some element, just cycle through the queue < 1149529319 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you get to the corresponding index < 1149529328 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1149529329 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1149529335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cycle by taking an element off the queue, then putting it right back) < 1149529370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an infinite array, of course, you can't cycle < 1149529374 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I should have one variable that holds the position of the start of the queue < 1149529378 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1149529391 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I cycle, then the value will change respectively < 1149529433 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1149529472 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you call an array that changes its size when needed? something like inflating array? < 1149529638 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays suck anyway < 1149529646 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the most boring data structure < 1149529774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"flexible array" is used somewhere. < 1149529935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 calls "a" in "struct foo { int x; long a[]; };" a "flexible array member", IIRC. < 1149529952 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flexible, yes < 1149529989 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I think my English is worse than the one of primary school kid... :/ < 1149530105 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sedimin: Well, my Slovak is far worse than your English ;) < 1149530207 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it just ''null''? :) < 1149530232 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :P < 1149530250 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see. and no exceptions in real life when you try to speak it < 1149532830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149535444 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149536876 0 :fuse!n=mpersano@medusa.insite.com.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1149537092 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To simulate an infinite "tape" using a queue, you can just use a | to represent the tape head, and a $ to represent the "end" of the tape. < 1149537135 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a 00011000 with the head right in the middle could be 0001|1000$, $0001|1000, 0$0001|100, 00$0001|10... < 1149537238 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An infinite tape with an end, that's a new one :P < 1149537282 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add zeroes around the $ whenever you need more. < 1149537451 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently those guys over in Hell are going to celebrate Tuesday. < 1149537639 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, it'd be rather weird if the world DID end then... < 1149537878 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is: will it be "The End" or "To be continued" < 1149537893 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2nd < 1149537953 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen any doomsday prophecies in the news here. I would have thought some fanatics would have made at least some attempts to scare people < 1149538390 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's happening tuesday? < 1149538410 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world ends < 1149538424 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm. why? < 1149538437 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i see. 6/6/6. < 1149538441 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1149538468 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it's actually 6/6/2006, but who cares... < 1149538537 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1149538543 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i read somewhere that, according to recent archaeological, the actual number is actually the far less ominous 616. < 1149538569 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*findings < 1149538659 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is 616 less ominous than 666, eh? < 1149538685 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposedly, 666 has some numerological properties < 1149538709 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nevermind, wtf do i know. < 1149540902 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... do I *have* to study? < 1149540963 0 :sedimin!n=juraj@gateway04.isper.sk JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541073 0 :fuse!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1149541405 0 :Asaph!i=me@ip68-226-175-204.lf.br.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541480 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541480 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541481 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541481 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541482 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541482 0 :cp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541482 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541483 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541483 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541484 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541484 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541484 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541484 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541484 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541485 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541485 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541485 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541485 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541485 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1149541523 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :ihope_!n=bar@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :sedimin!n=juraj@gateway04.isper.sk JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-e43ee155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :ihope!n=bar@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :jix!i=jix@L6299.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :kipple!n=kipple@250.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :CXI!n=Sanity@dialup-87.105.221.203.acc51-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :poiuy_qwert!i=poiuyqwe@toronto-HSE-ppp4227563.sympatico.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@ppp-70-226-165-36.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :cp!i=cp@m26s12.vlinux.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :GregorR!i=[U2FsdGV@andrea.cs.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :EgoBot!i=[U2FsdGV@andrea.cs.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :SimonRC!i=sc@bylands.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :pgimeno!n=pgimeno@124.Red-80-59-211.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80.244.80.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@61.247.145.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541523 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1149541535 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a self built robot using some µC some lego some wires one loudspeaker.. some sensors... < 1149541541 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some motors < 1149541581 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1149541584 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@61.247.145.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1149541665 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: "They had a process on Skylab. In the storage compartment there were 2000 lockers, on the ground there was a team of six working in shifts with a pair of redundant computers keeping track of what was put in which locker." < 1149541703 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh/ < 1149541715 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fairly route loss?! < 1149541720 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? < 1149541723 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fairly ones are the worst kind! < 1149541739 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOO! NOT A FAIRLY ROUTE LOSS! < 1149542096 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah < 1149542102 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, regarding 6/6/2006: http://imdb.com/title/tt0466909/ < 1149542277 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1149542291 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches the trailer
< 1149542320 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the birthmark with 666 in Aribic (i.e. English) numerals. *sigh* < 1149542461 0 :sedimin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149542473 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149542526 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, after reading the plot outline of that, the beginning of _Good Omens_ makes more sense. < 1149542670 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Omens is an awesome book. One of the funniest I've read < 1149542777 0 :_wildhalcyon_!n=chatzill@c-69-243-86-169.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149542841 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: yup < 1149542853 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1149542858 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1149542931 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you Simon? < 1149543000 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1149543048 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1149543055 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin _wildhalcyon_ < 1149543063 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin jix < 1149543076 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@h-69-3-55-16.dnvtco56.dynamic.covad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149543619 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80.244.80.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1149543621 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1149543647 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1149543650 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1149543652 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1149543669 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��M < 1149543747 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��E < 1149543766 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��O < 1149543862 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1149543910 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��A < 1149543918 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1149543928 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��U < 1149543947 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlaut-y p with a too large | and a big U??? < 1149543975 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��N < 1149544025 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ��g < 1149544047 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1149544051 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was weird. < 1149544053 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1149544070 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ack! < 1149544076 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 睨慴❳⁴桡琿 < 1149544084 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : UTF-16. < 1149544090 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 畭污畴⵹⁰⁷楴栠愠瑯漠污牧攠簠慮搠愠扩朠唿㼿 < 1149544094 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL! < 1149544097 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No, it's UTF-16! < 1149544103 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ihope giggles < 1149544134 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm my client assumes all server traffic is utf16 if i switch the charset < 1149544154 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of it? < 1149544176 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1149544195 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why should i use utf-16 at all? < 1149544200 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not ascii compatible < 1149544304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The þ is called a thorn, not "p with a too large |". :p < 1149544312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I say, :þ. < 1149544331 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a p with a too large | < 1149544361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just what it looks like; I don't think it's a "p". < 1149544381 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p + b = þ < 1149544384 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was describing the look < 1149544410 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and q + d = ? < 1149544421 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1149544422 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a q with a too long | too? < 1149544430 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e + y = ? < 1149544452 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :€ + ¥ = ? < 1149544456 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ack! < 1149544470 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C + = = € < 1149544473 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course. < 1149544474 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y + ? ? ¥ < 1149544486 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| + = = $ < 1149544489 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :€ + ¥ = C + Y + = + = < 1149544509 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| + - = † < 1149544512 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| + S = $? < 1149544517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? + ! = ‽ < 1149544528 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's my favorite < 1149544530 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WTF? how did you got THIS? < 1149544556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's U+203D, "INTERROBANG". < 1149544594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's a close friend of ‼, the DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK. < 1149544613 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% - / - o = ° < 1149544641 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O + / = Ø < 1149544662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X + | = ᛡ (U+16E1, RUNIC LETTER IOR) < 1149544694 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :한글 << is that hangul? < 1149544706 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1149544707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And U + | = ᛘ. (U+16D8, RUNIC LETTER LONG-BRANCH-MADR-M) < 1149544712 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coolest alphabet in the world < 1149544716 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe mayan < 1149544721 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i switched my keyboard layout to hangul and tried to type the word hangul < 1149544742 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to learn korean < 1149544754 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2¹¹ = 2048 < 1149544756 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1149544769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| + \ = ᚢ, RUNIC LETTER URUZ UR U. These have funky names. < 1149544778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the OGHAM SPACE MARK trumps all of these. < 1149544796 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What funky character set are all these? < 1149544827 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what I say still intelligible? < 1149544850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2⁽⁴⁺⁷⁾ = 2048. < 1149544860 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ack. < 1149544865 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wuh? < 1149544892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode has superscript versions of [0-9], +, -, =, ( and ). < 1149544896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And subscript versions, too.) < 1149544905 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whew. < 1149544911 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whoo, or whatever. < 1149544917 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what character set was that? < 1149544955 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just red a bit of information about the korean language.. i don't wont to learn it anymore.... < 1149544980 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never wanted to learn it in the first place :-) < 1149545016 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, misc garbage... < 1149545097 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 sux, UTF-8 rox < 1149545103 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO < 1149545153 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1149545175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 might be useful for minor space-saving in CJK text; most of the characters would be 3 bytes in UTF-8. < 1149545189 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, let's all suddenly switch over to UTF-16! < 1149545189 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149545197 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many would be 4 bytes in UTF-16 < 1149545205 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��H < 1149545220 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like thingy-thingy-H < 1149545234 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where thingy is the sign for unkonw char/corrupted UFT char < 1149545267 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ÿöü döñt hävë ÿ??? < 1149545309 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :öööööööööõöööööööööö which one doesn't belong here? < 1149545372 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ��A < 1149545390 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��T < 1149545411 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION coughs
< 1149545427 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer's ╡? < 1149545439 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's not an answer; it's an emoticon. < 1149545734 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ńó ĺáýéŕ śíźé íń úśé < 1149545754 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh. < 1149545801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err; not _many_ are 4 bytes in UTF-16, only the characters outside the BMP, and those are some pretty freaky characters. < 1149545844 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64K characters should be enough for anybody! < 1149545916 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1149545946 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1149545947 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I see a load of o:, one o~, and more o: < 1149545962 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: right < 1149545966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it _should_: do you really need characters like VARIATION SELECTOR-42, TETRAGRAM FOR VASTNESS OR WASTING or MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3. < 1149545980 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149545981 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1149546041 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded < 1149546049 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the best use of private use are award goes to: http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/ < 1149546094 0 :ihope_!n=bar@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149546097 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1149546105 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee hee. < 1149546111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple has their Apple logo as the was-it-last-or-what letter in the private use area in OS X -bundled fonts. < 1149546144 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is the private use area. < 1149546169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit disappointed that Klingon got nixed from Unicode proper. < 1149546185 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1149546208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering what the Interweb is like, I'm sure there'd be much more use for klingon characters than, say, OLD PERSIAN SIGN XSHAAYATHIYA. < 1149546215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(U+103CB.) < 1149546270 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1149546301 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1149546309 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shmeme < 1149546317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm not disappointed at all < 1149546321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :star trek is lame < 1149546338 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thwap! It's "tlhIngan" < 1149546347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame, schmame; there's still Real Use (tm) for that stuff. < 1149546366 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there isn't. < 1149546373 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"U+E06E TENGWAR DUODECIMAL LEAST SIGNIFICANT DIGIT MARK" < 1149546375 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ick? < 1149546385 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1149546444 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"U+E0BC CIRTH LETTER KHUZDUL RIGHT-POINTING SCHWA" < 1149546498 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"U+F8FF KLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH" < 1149546506 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a mummification glyph? < 1149546531 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 2^21 codepoints in Unicode. We can afford to allocate gigantic amounts to miscellaneous crap. < 1149546550 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the IPv6 address allocations for another good example. < 1149546599 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh! My eyes! http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Misc/Eye_Of_The_Argon < 1149546604 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst. Writing. Ever. < 1149546727 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen worse. < 1149547017 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1149547020 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]" < 1149547371 0 :_wildhalcyon_!n=chatzill@c-69-243-86-169.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1149547411 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im back :-D < 1149547464 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, brb ends the program right then and there, doesn't it? < 1149547499 0 :_wildhalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was afk < 1149547509 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1149547525 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its stfu < 1149547540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1149547543 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1149547545 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1149547555 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whaps GregorR
< 1149547842 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1149547851 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1149547863 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Omgrofl? Get with the times, man! ;-) < 1149547896 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass > omgrofl < 1149547902 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1149547908 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION relearns Glass
< 1149547918 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass will be better than every language until somebody makes Glass with derivation ^^ < 1149547966 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"Har!"(_o)o.?]} < 1149547969 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har! < 1149547994 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't even know what tldr means :P
< 1149548031 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I had to look that one up too < 1149548076 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too Long Didn't Read? < 1149548078 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1149548147 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the "ldr" is short for "loader", and the "t" stands for the same thing as it does in "Windows NT". < 1149548255 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing an omgrofl interperetr < 1149548271 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: For a decent OS I presume :) < 1149548278 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable < 1149548279 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby written < 1149548283 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thumbs up* < 1149548347 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : inline assembler in ruby is portable isn't it? < 1149548399 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inline assembler? < 1149548416 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not add inline assembler to Haskell, to? :-P < 1149548428 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know ruby inline? it allows to insert code written in other languages into ruby source < 1149548444 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has only c and c++ support atm but who cares...) < 1149548463 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and my interpreter is going to be interactive! < 1149548465 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Haskell FFI, slightly. < 1149548492 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write lines and the are going to be interpreted as soon as you input them... < 1149548508 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Easy? < 1149548508 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you start it with the -r flag you can use readline! < 1149548513 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: like irb < 1149548542 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Institutional Review Board? < 1149548555 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interactive ruby < 1149548561 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have ruby installed? < 1149548568 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1149548575 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do just start irb from the shell < 1149548579 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and type 10+20 < 1149548661 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'll reformat your hard disk. < 1149548671 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Pshhhh.... < 1149548674 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the default overload for the + operator. < 1149548747 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. A Turing machine is now called a No-Grape machine. < 1149548807 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Brainhype program with brace nesting level 1 is a One-Grape machine, one with nesting level 2 is a Two-Grape machine, etc. < 1149548816 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Brainhype interpreter is a One-Banana machine. < 1149548851 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will kill you in your sleep. < 1149548934 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm? < 1149548996 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI < 1149548998 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1149549002 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO! < 1149549007 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs GregorR-W
< 1149549292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: can a one-banana machine tell if a one-banana machine will halt? < 1149549303 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no, but a two-banana machine can. < 1149549325 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A one-banana machine can tell if *any* machine on the grape hierarchy can halt. < 1149549348 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a class that will be able to tell if other stuff in the same class can halt. < 1149549356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a superset of TC, of course) < 1149549386 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but you don't just want it to tell if other stuff in the same class will halt. < 1149549396 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want it to be able to act on that in a Turing-complete manner. < 1149549399 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess brainhype CAN do that. < 1149549434 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no there is a proof it can't < 1149549464 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, the "Brainhype-complete" class isn't in the Brainhype language. < 1149549476 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainhype defines grape machines. < 1149549486 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Any* grape machine. < 1149549506 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: um < 1149549509 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: it can, by definition < 1149549533 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: for every Brainhype program, there is a *different* one that will solve its Halting problem. < 1149549591 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1149549594 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the brainhype program that solves some other Brainhype program's halting problem can be trivially shown to halt. < 1149549599 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no branches or conditionals. < 1149549606 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: argh i thought about one brainhype program that is able to solve tha halting problem for all brainhype programs... < 1149549619 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no Brainhype program that can answer the question "will this Brainhype program with this input halt?". < 1149549627 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all programs and inputs, that is. < 1149549644 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, input is a good point. < 1149549647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. but a brainhype interpreter can do that. < 1149549652 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Brainhype description doesn't even go into it. < 1149549656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1149549657 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you are all right i was wrong i am stupid .... < 1149549679 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK jix, you're cool because you've written both FYB and Glass code :P < 1149549690 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's no IO, then the brainhype interpreter can check if a brainhype program halts. < 1149549702 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that just means that a Brainhype interpreter isn't in Brainhype. < 1149549706 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just do that by interpreting a _different_ program that adds braces around the old one. < 1149549708 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: i have some simple ORK code on my HD too! < 1149549720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there's IO, then the brainhype interpreter can't do anything < 1149549720 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Ah, coolio, that makes you even more cool :P < 1149549732 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By definition, if you've used a language I wrote, you're cool X-P < 1149549735 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: but what if i don't want to be cool? < 1149549741 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late. < 1149549749 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your coolness has been irrevocably established. < 1149549768 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could feed puppies to blood-sucking mutated babies and still be cool. < 1149549798 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ext in fyb glass ork; do find / -name "*.$ext" | xargs rm ;done < 1149549808 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be best to remove all IO from brainhype < 1149549835 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't try this at home) < 1149549848 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: find / -name "*.fyb" -o -name "*.glass" -o -name "*.ork" -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm would do only one pass < 1149549860 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: but it's longer < 1149549863 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1149549885 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i didn't know about the -o option < 1149549896 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's useful... < 1149549911 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find / \( -name "*.fyb" -o -name "*.glass" -o -name "*.ork" \) -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm < 1149550089 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid() { for i in $1/*; do if [ -d "$i" ] ; then stupid $i ; elif [ "`echo \"$i\" | grep -F '\.fyb$|\.glass$|\.ork$'`" ] ; then rm -f $i ; fi ; done } stupid / < 1149550128 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, missed one set of quotes, that won't work if you have files with spaces: < 1149550133 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid() { for i in $1/*; do if [ -d "$i" ] ; then stupid $i ; elif [ "`echo \"$i\" | grep -F '\.fyb$|\.glass$|\.ork$'`" ] ; then rm -f "$i" ; fi ; done } stupid / < 1149550153 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: that will break if filename contains spaces < 1149550174 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, still missed a " or two :P < 1149550182 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pft, well the stupid idea is sound :P < 1149550191 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by 'sound' I mean 'ridiculous' < 1149550565 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the negation part in omgrofl is not clear.. < 1149550586 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text sais the nope has to be placed in front of iz the example says it's placed after iz... < 1149550602 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i allow both? < 1149550605 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider lambda calculus extended with a function (will-halt f), that checks whether its argument halts < 1149550611 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is itself guaranteed to halt < 1149550612 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a lot of stuff in omgrofl seem unclear < 1149550623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can call this language Banana LC < 1149550624 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: how do you guarantee it to halt? < 1149550631 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: magic. < 1149550647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a wholly magical function. < 1149550658 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uuuuuuuuuuuse your imaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagiiiiiiiinaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaation. < 1149550660 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you write a banana lc interpreter in banana lc? I don't see why not. < 1149550674 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it restricted to those programs that will halt? < 1149550679 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the easy way :-) < 1149550679 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you write a brainhype interpreter in banana lc? I don't see why not < 1149550704 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not restricted to anything < 1149550706 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just magical < 1149550711 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1149550726 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (\x.xx)(\x.xx) halts in this language? < 1149550731 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1149550732 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: no < 1149550742 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (will-halt (\x.xx)(\x.xx)) halts < 1149550743 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (will-halt (\x.xx)(\x.xx)) does, and returns false < 1149550748 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1149550749 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some LC equivalent of false) < 1149550775 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks
< 1149550808 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any halting-related problems banana lc can't solve. < 1149550818 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a second... < 1149550843 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?x. x x)(z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false)) what about this? < 1149550853 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ermp, hey! < 1149550874 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x.(\y.y(xx))(\y.y(xx)))(\x.(will-halt x)((\x.xx)(\x.xx))(\x.x)) < 1149550884 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this program can't be interpreted in a proper way and this shows that a will halt can't be existent.... < 1149550884 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez < 1149550892 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1149550892 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the fixed point of the function (\x.(will-halt x)((\x.xx)(\x.xx))(\x.x)). < 1149550912 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: is it the same thing as my (not so lambdaish) example? < 1149550912 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1149550916 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1149550927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stupid < 1149550929 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: depends on what ? is, I think. < 1149550944 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm it's \ < 1149550954 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lambda < 1149550961 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's the same, then. < 1149550963 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's wrong anyway < 1149550980 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But brainhype is consistent? < 1149550988 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i wanted to write a program that halts if it doesn't halts and doesn't halts if it halts < 1149551017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false))(z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false)) = (if (will-halt (z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false))) (infinity-loop) false) = (if true (infinity-loop) false) = infinity-loop < 1149551066 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, because this contradiction depends on moving the "braces" to enclose themselves, or something. < 1149551088 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in lambda calculus is dynamic, but the braces of Brainhype are static. < 1149551217 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1149551225 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1149551232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about the brainhype interpreter? < 1149551253 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Brainhype interpreter cannot solve its own halting problem because it is not a Brainhype program. < 1149551255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that means that the brainhype interpreter can't be written in _anything_? < 1149551269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how "superturing"? < 1149551299 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you just have to make it higher than anything in the grape hierarchy. < 1149551312 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will bring it into the banana hierarchy. < 1149551332 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure there is a banana hierarchy < 1149551352 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, lemme think... < 1149551354 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a gut feeling that the brainhype interpreter would be equivalent to Banana LC in power < 1149551362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, therefore, inconsistent < 1149551363 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wouldn't. < 1149551384 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Brainhype interpreter could only be inconsistent if a Brainhype program were inconsistent, I think. < 1149551427 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though a Brainhype interpreter can solve the Halting problem for anything in the grape hierarchy, it doesn't have to solve that for anything in the banana hierarchy. < 1149551471 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about: (\x. x x)(\e. (if (will-halt (e e)) (infinity-loop) false)) < 1149551496 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: I think that'll work. < 1149551566 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a function that halts if it doesn't halt and the other way around < 1149551637 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a brainhype interpreter interpreter is step 2 in the banana hierarchy? < 1149551643 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is no one-banana right? < 1149551653 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no < 1149551663 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: why not? < 1149551665 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: a brainhype interpeter doesn't even have to be a banana < 1149551678 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: because i showed a function that is valid banana but it can't exist < 1149551694 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it neither halts nor does it not halt < 1149551695 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a valid banana, is it? < 1149551715 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is it on the banana hierarchy, then? < 1149551729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: banana lc is not on the banana hierarchy, apparently. < 1149551745 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah < 1149551749 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be renamed to turnip lc :( < 1149551755 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1149551774 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one banana is the brainhype interpreter. Two banana is a program capable of telling whether a brainhype interpreter will halt? < 1149551777 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't have an lc with a will-halt... < 1149551805 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: That's a pretty mean contrived example :P < 1149551834 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yep. < 1149551841 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, wait... < 1149551864 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: well adding a will halt to an lc is like saying it can solve EVERY problem... and gödel showed that this can't exist... he did it that way... (a bit different) < 1149551868 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One banana is a machine that can invoke a Brainhype interpreter. < 1149551874 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1149551884 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was Turing that did that. < 1149551907 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: turing showed that it is impossible to decide wether it halts or not < 1149551916 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And then, Gregor went home." < 1149551929 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, isn't this just an extension of that? < 1149551948 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: nargh i can't explain it in english... < 1149551956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still not sure that there is a banana hierarchy < 1149551983 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: okay. You can have any machine in the banana hierarchy, then prove it doesn't exist.