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01:11:24 <SimonRC> ug
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02:17:43 <wildhalcyon> omgrofl is looking pretty interesting
03:07:39 <SimonRC> OMFG this would be *soooo* cool if it wasn't for the lack of long-term implant durability:    http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/06/09/2035206.shtml
03:07:52 * SimonRC goes to bed
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10:07:04 <sedimin> evening!
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11:33:01 <sedimin_> key kipple
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12:14:24 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: i'll try to program one
12:14:48 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: can't promise i succeed, ;P
12:16:24 <Keymaker> and, hi everyone :)
12:42:46 <Keymaker> if only one wouldn't need to store the input values.. grrrh
13:00:38 <Keymaker> gotta go. bye
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14:45:46 <ihope> !help
14:45:49 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
14:45:51 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
14:46:03 <ihope> Not much is new, eh?
14:46:28 <ihope> !axo (H*<Of"Hello, world!">.,Ik{38})
14:48:56 <ihope> !ps d
14:48:59 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: axo
14:49:01 <EgoBot> 2 ihope: ps
14:49:04 <ihope> !kill 1
14:49:09 <EgoBot> Process 1 killed.
16:12:04 <ihope> So Prolog doesn't have monads...
16:12:53 * ihope wonders how Prolog would handle monads
16:16:05 <ihope> return(X, just X)
16:16:21 <ihope> bind(just X, Y, Y(X))
16:16:29 <ihope> bind(nothing, Y, nothing)
16:16:33 <ihope> Something like that?
16:30:53 <ihope> Or maybe this: bind(just X, Y, Z) :- Y(X,Z)
16:31:11 * ihope wonders if Prolog can handle things like that
16:32:21 <jix> wtf?! i just started a prolog program and someone here starts to talk about prolog
16:32:26 <jix> +coding
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17:16:29 <ihope> So, in that one part in "Steppin' Out", is every note played twice, or does it just sound like it?
17:16:44 <ihope> And if it just sounds like it, is that due to the little bell that plays?
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17:48:06 * ihope decides that it's one "note" that can be heard only on the "on" and the "off"
18:16:28 <SimonRC> eh?  "Steppin' Out"?
18:19:29 <ihope> By Joe Jackson.
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18:28:34 <sedimin_> hell, why do I always write "idenfity" instead of "identify"? :)
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18:34:19 <wildhalcyon> dyslexia?
18:34:39 <sedimin_> may be
18:34:47 <sedimin_> but it never happened to me
18:34:51 <sedimin_> :/
18:35:11 <wildhalcyon> just with the one word?
18:35:46 <sedimin_> yes
18:35:59 <sedimin_> every time I connect to the IRC
18:36:22 <wildhalcyon> you didn't get those magnetic implants, did you?
18:36:34 <sedimin_> what magic implants? :/
18:36:39 <sedimin_> do you have one?
18:37:46 <wildhalcyon> magnetic, not magic. No, I'm afraid I don't
18:38:57 <sedimin_> omg
18:39:50 <sedimin_> i cannot read... :)
18:40:22 <wildhalcyon> so I was browsing wikipedia looking for untapped esolang potential last night.
18:40:45 <sedimin_> and did you write something
18:40:50 <wildhalcyon> I came upon Lindenmayer systems (l-systems). They seemed interesting, then I realized that they were EXACTLY THE FREAKIN' SAME AS THUE SYSTEMS!
18:40:52 <sedimin_> umm
18:41:01 <sedimin_> ...really?
18:41:21 <wildhalcyon> yup. Both deal with string replacement using left/right-side rules
18:41:37 <sedimin_> but it's waaay old
18:42:02 <wildhalcyon> Well, L-systems are more broad than just the string replacement in Thue.
18:42:13 <sedimin_> I se
18:42:15 <sedimin_> see*
18:42:24 <wildhalcyon> They can be stochastic, include variables of sorts, and have context sensativity
18:42:38 <sedimin_> what is stochastic?
18:43:04 <wildhalcyon> The output is random
18:43:20 <wildhalcyon> I realize Thue allows some randomization, but its limited
18:49:18 <sedimin_> i never could understand the Thue completely
18:49:19 <sedimin_> :)
18:50:06 <wildhalcyon> I tried a bit of programming in it. Its a difficult system to implement an algorithm in.
18:50:53 <sedimin_> but maybe less difficult than in Malbolge, right?
18:50:56 <wildhalcyon> Some things are easy. I made a very simple program that could match a string regular expressions could not.
18:51:04 <wildhalcyon> Probably less difficult than malbolge, yes.
18:51:25 <sedimin_> what exactly did your program?
18:51:34 <sedimin_> what kind of string could it match?
18:52:14 <wildhalcyon> a string of a's,b's, and c's (in that order), where the number of a's, b's, and c's were the same.
18:52:25 <sedimin_> hm
18:52:32 <wildhalcyon> {abc}, {aabbcc}, {aaabbbccc}... etc
18:52:36 <sedimin_> regexp may not match it
18:52:44 <wildhalcyon> nope, regex's can't count.
18:52:47 <sedimin_> but a simple for loop could
18:53:09 <sedimin_> but were the a's, b's and c's hardcoded into program?
18:53:18 <wildhalcyon> yes.
18:53:43 <wildhalcyon> the program looked like this:
18:53:57 <wildhalcyon> abb:=bab
18:54:13 <wildhalcyon> abc::=
18:54:24 <wildhalcyon> {}::=VALID
18:54:49 <sedimin_> uh
18:54:56 <sedimin_> let me look at the syntax
18:55:58 <wildhalcyon> sorry, that last line should be []::=~VALID
18:56:10 <wildhalcyon> arg {}::=~VALID even.
18:56:11 <sedimin_> and the input was also hardcoded?
18:57:36 <wildhalcyon> well, yes. But that's an easy fix
18:57:51 <sedimin_> i see
18:58:06 <sedimin_> so the last line was the "initial state" like "aabbcc" ?
18:59:29 <wildhalcyon> right, except that it had to be enclosed in curly braces {}
18:59:47 <sedimin_> why?
19:01:37 <wildhalcyon> in order to match {} and output VALID.
19:01:55 <wildhalcyon> Otherwise, a valid string would simply eat up everything, turn to nothing, and the program would exit.
19:02:15 <sedimin_> and you can't determine if string is null?
19:02:35 <sedimin_> or nothing? couldn't something like ::=~VALID?
19:02:47 <sedimin_> '::=~VALID'
19:03:13 <wildhalcyon> not that I'm aware of. I could be wrong though
19:03:36 <sedimin_> there is written: Execution consists of picking, from the list of rules, an arbitrary rule whose original string exists as a substring somewhere in the program state, and replacing that substring by the rule's replacement string.
19:03:51 <sedimin_> and I think that empty string is substring of each string
19:03:53 <sedimin_> hm
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19:05:24 <sedimin_> but if empty string was in every string and Thue will act like that, then it will output VALID to each string,  so your { } is right
19:05:45 <wildhalcyon> exactly.
19:05:55 <wildhalcyon> My way is SURE to work, while the other way... might not.
19:06:08 <wildhalcyon> I want to expand Thue a bit...
19:06:08 <sedimin_> i'll try it out
19:08:56 <sedimin_> do you use the python interpreter?
19:09:04 <wildhalcyon> yup
19:12:26 <sedimin_> hm
19:12:33 <sedimin_> is there way to output current program state?
19:13:10 <wildhalcyon> not sure
19:13:21 <wildhalcyon> I just got started with this at like 1am last night
19:15:24 <sedimin_> :))
19:16:00 <sedimin_> because without that, i find debugging quite hard
19:16:22 <SimonRC> heh
19:16:31 <sedimin_> but i'm sure the interpreter offers something like interactive mode or it could be hacked to output the program state after applying each rule
19:23:01 <sedimin_> ...
19:24:26 <wildhalcyon> ... maybe
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19:31:46 <sedimin_> i found that when the interpreteris invoked with option  -d
19:32:00 <sedimin_> it acts in debug mode
19:32:15 <sedimin_> and prints the data after each transformation
19:35:05 <wildhalcyon> that's handy :-D
19:36:08 <sedimin_> I understand the program except for one thing
19:36:42 <sedimin_> it does this: it transforms each 'good' aaabbbccc or aaaabbbbcccc string into aabbcc
19:36:56 <sedimin_> then, following rule 1, into ababcc
19:37:05 <sedimin_> ah i see now
19:37:06 <sedimin_> :)
19:37:12 <sedimin_> excellent algorithm :)
19:37:18 <wildhalcyon> Thanks.
19:37:32 <wildhalcyon> After my success, I tried another algorithm...
19:37:44 <sedimin_> that is?
19:39:27 <wildhalcyon> this time, I wanted to take a balanced ternary number of the form {+0-} (or similar) and output 1111 or -1-1-1-1.. where the number of 1's or -1's was the magnitude of the number
19:39:57 <wildhalcyon> It didn't work so well. I was having trouble multiplying by 3 for some reason. :-(
19:40:07 <wildhalcyon> brb
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19:47:24 <wildhalcyon> bah
19:47:31 <wildhalcyon> back too
19:52:14 <sedimin_> :)
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20:15:42 <sedimin_> somebody watching football?
20:17:51 <kipple> nah
20:27:15 <sedimin_> that's ok :)
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20:53:27 <sedimin_> shitshit
20:53:30 <SimonRC> what?
20:53:43 <sedimin_> I am preparing release of my app...
20:54:18 <sedimin_> I made some changes to the version at home, forgot to check it in the CVS, then made some other changes at my girlfriend's and then put it in CVS
20:54:27 <SimonRC> ouch
20:54:31 <sedimin_> now I have to merge the changes together....
20:54:39 <SimonRC> Hope they will merge.
20:54:43 <GregorR> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Same change you did there
20:54:44 <GregorR> ....
20:54:47 <GregorR> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Change repeated
20:54:49 <GregorR> ...
20:54:50 <GregorR> :P
20:54:54 <sedimin_> heh
20:55:56 <sedimin_> it is funny watching like apps like to grow, but don't like to shrink :)
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20:58:06 <sedimin_> do you know any woman programmer?
20:58:35 <kipple> there is one where I work
20:58:46 <kipple> and there were of course several at the uni
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20:59:39 <kipple> MUHAHA. now we can say whatever we want without big brother watching us :D
21:01:21 <GregorR> lol
21:01:24 <GregorR> clog: Hi.
21:01:30 <GregorR> Did you forget we have two big brothers here?
21:01:35 <kipple> argh
21:01:49 <kipple> good thing I didn't say anything compromising then...
21:02:08 * SimonRC wonders who they would be
21:11:57 <ihope> cmeme?
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21:27:33 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: hello
21:27:40 <wildhalcyon> hey keymaker
21:27:42 <wildhalcyon> whats up?
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21:28:04 <Keymaker> hmm, i don't know :)
21:28:16 <Keymaker> but anyways, that prolan/m problem interests me too..
21:28:34 <Keymaker> i declared earlier today on this channel (if you've seen logs) that i try to program it
21:28:34 <SimonRC> :-o   "Q13.   42 : Cousin :: 6 : ?"
21:29:00 <Keymaker> however, it's very difficult!!
21:29:01 <wildhalcyon> I thought I had a way to do it, but I'm not sure.
21:29:08 <Keymaker> aha
21:29:20 <Keymaker> i'm sure there are different ways :)
21:29:32 <Keymaker> btw, for how old was that competition?
21:29:35 <wildhalcyon> I think that's what they implied by encouraging participants to submit two versions
21:29:37 <wildhalcyon> 1990
21:29:44 <Keymaker> i mean, for how old people
21:29:54 <Keymaker> like for youngsters or?
21:30:44 <wildhalcyon> I think it was for college students
21:30:47 <wildhalcyon> not sure
21:30:50 <Keymaker> ok
21:30:56 <Keymaker> might be reasonable guess
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21:31:51 <ihope> SimonRC: yikes.
21:32:25 <wildhalcyon> I'm having trouble performing place-value operations. I know its possible, but I don't have the mad string-replacement skills to do it in
21:32:35 <Keymaker> hehe
21:32:36 <Keymaker> yea
21:33:08 <Keymaker> what annoys me most is tha the user has to keep the input values in memory one way or another..
21:33:13 <Keymaker> *that
21:33:22 * SimonRC isn't sure what the answer is.
21:33:31 <ihope> Where is this?
21:33:35 <Keymaker> what?
21:33:37 <Keymaker> :)
21:33:40 <SimonRC> http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/smartest.html
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21:34:28 <SimonRC> hmm, his client didn;t like that URL
21:34:49 <Keymaker> anyways. it'd be nice to see a working solution one day :)
21:35:13 <wildhalcyon> A lot of those analogies are easy. :-#
21:35:42 <wildhalcyon> not all, but a lot of them
21:37:48 <wildhalcyon> the pattern stuff is harder :-(
21:38:08 <SimonRC> hmm, yeah
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21:58:49 <Keymaker> will there ever be new Essies?
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22:05:07 <ihope> Who runs the Essies?
22:05:17 <Keymaker> no idea
22:05:27 <Keymaker> perhaps we might have something other fun esolang competition
22:05:32 <Keymaker> *might=could
22:06:06 <GregorR> Anonymous-peer-judged esolang-writing contest.
22:06:53 <Keymaker> hm, i'd like to see more clever programs instead of always new languages
22:09:23 <Keymaker> sure new langs are nice, but it's sometimes annoying when writing any programs is left as exercise for the reader :P
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22:13:43 <Keymaker> tell me, is any irc channel really worth one's time? :)
22:14:30 <ihope> Is esoteric programming really worth one's time
22:14:32 <ihope> ?
22:14:41 <Keymaker> yes, it definitely is
22:15:07 <Keymaker> i just meant that nothing happens on this channel :D
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22:19:32 <SimonRC> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4633452260  -- lolol @ at "added information"
22:19:36 * SimonRC tries not to laugh too much at the messages to Bob.
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