2006-06-01:

00:00:56 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("And then, Gregor went home.").
00:09:31 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
00:16:43 * SimonRC goes to bed.
00:37:35 <ihope> Does anybody actually know what Jesus looked like?
00:37:46 <lament> yes
00:38:09 <ihope> How?
00:38:36 <lament> like a pumpkin with leathery wings
00:39:02 <ihope> ...
00:39:29 * ihope pretends lament never said anything
00:39:51 <ihope> If not, it's pretty ironic how pictures of him are so easily recognized as pictures of him.
00:41:11 <SimonRC> Q: "Where do Russian hackers live?"
00:41:18 <SimonRC> A: "Cyberia."
00:41:23 <SimonRC> :-D  :-D  :-D
00:41:34 * SimonRC goes back to bed.
00:41:40 -!- NoneGiven has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:43:58 <lament> ihope: don't discount my information so easily
00:44:04 <lament> ihope: trust me, i know what i'm talking about
00:44:11 <ihope> watevr
01:12:40 * ihope says
01:16:47 -!- NoneGiven has joined.
01:18:06 <GregorR> Pictures of him are easily recognized as pictures of him because they invented what he looked like in the middle ages and have stuck with that invented image since.
01:18:45 <ihope> Ah.
01:32:26 <bsmntbombdood> weird
01:44:56 -!- ihope has quit ("...do this").
02:20:21 <GregorR> ?
02:21:13 <bsmntbombdood> weird how an image of jesus would be invented
02:37:12 <GregorR> They didn't make a lot of portraits of government dissidents in ancient Rome.
02:38:16 <GregorR> *the ancient Roman empire (outside of Rome proper)
02:53:18 <wildhalcyon> I don't know if I would say "invented" is the right term - most of the paintings of jesus that we have are patterned after a 15th century prince. His name escapes me at the moment...
02:54:58 <wildhalcyon> as far as ihope's question earlier: some people still debate that jesus even existed, let alone what the historical jesus might have looked like.
04:33:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
04:36:41 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
04:36:45 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:37:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
05:38:45 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.3/2006042618]").
05:41:57 -!- calamari has joined.
05:55:31 <lament> jesus certainly existed. And certainly looked like a winged pumpkin.
05:58:09 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
06:06:33 <bsmntbombdood> lement: what does a winged pumkin look like?
06:16:25 <lament> like a frigging pumpkin with wings.
06:32:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:34:32 -!- calamari has joined.
09:35:01 -!- calamari has quit (Client Quit).
11:01:16 -!- jix has joined.
13:12:04 <SimonRC> pos(X):-pos(Y),succ(X,Y)  <-- Horn Clause     :-D  <-- Smiley
13:12:21 <SimonRC> ooh, I have a better joke actually
13:13:32 <SimonRC> :-p(X,Y),inv(Y,X)  <-- smiley speaking PROLOG
13:15:49 * SimonRC wonders if that is actually a valid PROLOG clause.
13:27:30 * SimonRC goes
15:55:06 -!- sekhmet has quit ("blah").
15:58:31 -!- sekhmet has joined.
16:03:22 -!- nooga has joined.
16:35:29 -!- ihope has joined.
16:35:51 <ihope> They say <parens> ::= "(" <parens> ")" <parens> | epsilon.
16:36:34 <ihope> I say <parens> ::= "(" <parentree> | epsilon, and <parentree> ::= "(" <parentree> <parentree> | ")".
16:37:17 <ihope> So a set of parentheses is pretty much a list of trees of nothing in particular.
16:45:07 -!- tgwizard has joined.
16:46:17 <nooga> who's spanish
16:46:18 <nooga> ?
16:48:15 <ihope> I know a bit of Spanish.
16:48:37 <nooga> heh, i need to describe my day in preterito indefinido 
16:48:55 <nooga> (homework) ;p
16:49:13 <nooga> but the problem is that I don't know Spanish 
16:59:04 <nooga> heh :|
16:59:33 <nooga> i don't think using babelfish is a good idea
16:59:56 <nooga> bbl
17:01:33 <SimonRC> why are you getting spanish homework if you don't know spanish?
17:02:17 <nooga> nvm
17:23:46 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:48:34 -!- kipple has joined.
17:48:44 <SimonRC> hi (2)
18:38:09 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:42:15 -!- tgwizard has joined.
19:10:35 -!- nooga has joined.
19:10:44 <nooga> so
19:11:12 <nooga> could some Spanish enabled guy help me with my homework? pleeeease?
19:13:46 <lament> hasta la vista
19:14:29 <nooga> erm
19:14:47 <nooga> no, mi dio en preterito indefinido ;p
19:14:53 <nooga> whatever
19:25:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
19:25:36 <SimonRC> hi
19:26:33 <nooga> hi 
19:27:43 <nooga> Spanish Spanish aaaa ;/
19:28:14 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:33:15 <nooga> rotfl
19:33:41 <nooga> I write in english, babelfisgh translates to Apanish and I'm trying to correct it
19:33:45 <nooga> Spanish*
19:37:46 <lament> sad
19:37:56 <nooga> that's true
19:38:05 <nooga> but i'm too lazy to master another language
19:51:30 <lament> then why are you trying to learn it?
19:54:07 <nooga> i must ;p
19:54:12 <nooga> i mean
19:54:19 <nooga> i've got Spanish in my school
19:54:42 <nooga> i just want to pass and forget...
19:54:48 <lament> very sad
19:54:56 <lament> some spanish girls are hot
19:55:02 <bsmntbombdood> not that many
19:57:26 <lament> well, i'd rather learn Portuguese for that :)
19:57:36 <lament> but still, don't discount the spanish girls
19:58:20 <bsmntbombdood> where i go to school all the spanish girls are ugly
20:20:59 <nooga> ha ha
20:32:21 <SimonRC> # A SAILer wrote in C, C, C #  # To see what he could see, see, see. # ...
20:32:23 <SimonRC> :-)
20:32:41 <SimonRC> SAIL, being the Stanford AI Lab
20:32:55 <SimonRC> where, ironically, LISP would have been the main lang
20:34:17 <bsmntbombdood> lisp makes my head hurt
20:35:13 <nooga> haha
20:35:17 <nooga> lisp is cool
20:35:32 <nooga> when i talk i even use cons and cdr
20:36:00 <bsmntbombdood> lisp makes my eyes go all hazy
20:36:01 <nooga> "Could you cons that papers up for me please?" ;d
20:36:48 <SimonRC> I prefer Haskell.
20:37:15 <bsmntbombdood> haskell is cool
20:37:19 <SimonRC> I have used the same method for learning several things about Haskell:
20:37:26 <nooga> it's nice, although i'm too lazy to master it ;p
20:38:06 <SimonRC> Take concept in left hand, mallet in right hand, attempt to pound concept into brain repeatedly, for 12 hours split across several days.
20:38:57 <SimonRC> I learnt monads, state monads, continuations, the type of continuation-using functions, and a few other things that way.
20:39:46 <bsmntbombdood> i just started learning haskell
20:40:05 <bsmntbombdood> the lazy evaluation thing is weird
20:41:41 <SimonRC> useful though...
20:42:15 <SimonRC> say you want to turn a list of nodes with cross-references into a graph of data...
20:42:44 <SimonRC> you can use lazy eval to look up data before you have read it in :-)
20:44:32 <SimonRC> see "Tying the knot" in the haskell wiki
20:45:07 <GregorR> So, in a few weeks I'm going on a vacation to Britain.  Who's in Britain here?
20:48:46 <SimonRC> me
20:51:49 <nooga> yay
20:51:55 <nooga> i'm quite near
20:52:00 <nooga> only in Poland
20:52:09 <SimonRC> heh
20:52:33 <nooga> oh come on, that's almost nothing
20:54:02 <GregorR> lol
20:54:10 <GregorR> SimonRC: What city?
20:55:08 <nooga> "...and when the band you're in starts playing different songs, i'll meet you on the dark side of the moon..."
20:55:21 <nooga> ah ah ah "brain damage" that's it 
20:56:17 * kipple slaps nooga for misquoting pink floyd
20:56:25 <nooga> yikes
20:56:30 <SimonRC> GregorR: depends when you are here
20:56:43 <nooga> diferent tunes
20:57:03 <nooga> excuse me T.T... what a shame
20:57:05 <kipple> And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
20:57:06 <kipple> I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
20:57:19 <nooga> what a shame
20:57:21 <nooga> what a shame
20:57:22 <kipple> :)
20:58:10 <kipple> guess who's got tickets to Roger Waters performing the Dark Side of the Moon live.... :D
20:58:18 <nooga> hey, if my motorbike got fixed in this month i could transport myself to London
20:58:26 <nooga> kipple: curse you aaaah
20:58:44 * kipple decurses himself
20:58:56 <nooga> damn
20:59:01 <SimonRC> GregorR: I will be in Durham, or later in Faversham (Kent)
20:59:29 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: oh, BTW, have you read "Why Functional Programming Matters"?
20:59:38 <bsmntbombdood> no
21:00:53 <nooga> i've taken a photo 
21:01:09 <kipple> of what?
21:01:50 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: you should
21:01:53 <bsmntbombdood> ok
21:01:59 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: it should why laziness is very good
21:02:05 <nooga> nothing special
21:02:29 <nooga> http://www.digart.pl/pokaz.lista.php?userid=nooga < that's my little portfoolio ;|
21:03:00 * GregorR reappears.
21:03:01 <nooga> oh, kipple, you mean that performance at Roskilde?
21:03:09 <GregorR> Nope, I won't be seeing you :p
21:03:59 <kipple> no, not that one. This one is in Stavanger in Norway, but it's the same deal
21:04:35 <nooga> how much for tickets?
21:04:52 <kipple> 520 NOK
21:05:16 <kipple> about 67€
21:05:25 <nooga> http://www.pinkfloydz.com/roger2006/index26june.htm << "Ticket scan thanks to Rune"?? o.O
21:05:27 <kipple> (not cheap!)
21:05:46 <kipple> ha, that's not me :)
21:05:51 <nooga> bah
21:06:33 <kipple> those photos were not bad btw. (not that I'm an expert or anything)
21:06:49 <nooga> me either
21:07:45 <nooga> which is the best?
21:08:30 <kipple> good question
21:08:51 <kipple> I like the one with the trabant. Trabants are cool :)
21:08:59 <nooga> sure
21:09:10 <nooga> they're rare even here
21:09:24 <kipple> they don't last too long, do they?
21:09:39 <nooga> and parking in front of that ugly blocks was empty 
21:09:55 <nooga> so that it looks like taken live from 70'
21:11:03 <nooga> althought the trabant has new number plate
21:11:25 -!- ihope has joined.
21:11:40 <ihope> ¡Mucho pelaje!
21:13:25 <ihope> Well, I'm playing one of my first games of ADOM.
21:13:57 <ihope> No spoilers for me, unless I... well.
21:13:58 <nooga> And I'm playing guitar ;p
21:14:15 <ihope> One of your first games of guitar?
21:14:23 <nooga> no
21:14:36 <nooga> "Time"
21:16:29 <ihope> Y64 2n6w,  hate the fact that AD 352es n40ber *ads, b4t s5nce '0 4s5ng a 3a*t6*,  have t6 *4t n40ber 36c2 6n, and that w6n2s th5ngs 4*.
21:17:30 * ihope tries to figure out what he just said
21:18:18 <ihope> "You know, I hate the fact that ADOM likes number pads, but since I'm using a laptop, I have to put number lock on, and that wonks things up."
21:18:19 * kipple suggests ihope turn off the numlock on his laptop
21:18:55 <nooga> http://www.digart.pl/data/img/42/23/download/353020.jpg
21:18:59 <nooga> this one is nice 
21:19:13 <ihope> That what is nice?
21:19:24 <nooga> (i'm so modest)
21:19:33 -!- fuse has joined.
21:21:06 <kipple> it is nice :)
21:21:08 <nooga> i think that is much like Battersea on PF's cover
21:21:14 <nooga> h, maybe not much
21:21:24 <nooga> but it makes a strange feeling
21:21:37 <nooga> this big tank
21:21:47 <kipple> it lacks a flying pig ;)
21:22:08 <nooga> hehe, no problem - we've got computers ;d
21:22:35 <kipple> a flying computer? that could be good too :P
21:22:44 <nooga> sure ;d
21:23:26 <nooga> gosh, g2g - I must wake up early...
21:23:45 -!- fuse has left (?).
21:23:50 <nooga> bye
21:23:57 <kipple> bye
21:24:00 -!- nooga has quit ("oho ho ohoh").
21:32:57 <ihope> Oops.
21:34:17 <ihope> Ah well. 1432 isn't a terrible ADOM score, is it?
21:34:21 <ihope> Then again, it probably it.
21:34:23 <ihope> s/it/is
21:35:36 <SimonRC> ihope: bah!  Use hykulnjb!
21:36:41 <ihope> SimonRC: I'll try :-P
21:37:48 <ihope> MON MNW MOW MSW MOS MSE MOE MNE WAT <- movement commands?
21:38:51 * ihope changes all the movement commands to vi keys, then changes the things that were vi keys to more NetHacky keys
21:40:38 * ihope wonders if ADOM warns of key conflicts
21:41:00 * ihope wonders why online help is called online help if it's often not online
21:43:13 * bsmntbombdood is away: I'm busy
21:44:48 <ihope> ...Apparently my keyboard settings were reverted or something.
21:46:24 <ihope> Ah, here we go!
21:47:36 <ihope> ...
21:48:44 <lament> your keyboard settings were perverted.
21:49:23 <lament> WAT doesn't sound like a movement command, though.
21:49:38 <ihope> Isn't "wait" a movement command? :-P
21:49:57 <ihope> And... they were what?
21:51:14 * ihope hates how ADOM just flashes a window subliminally whenever he tries to open it
21:51:30 <ihope> No "press enter to continue" stuff or anything like that!
22:12:03 <ihope> Ooh, sed!
22:12:46 * ihope pipes NetHack through sed
22:13:59 * ihope thinks Windows doesn't like that
22:16:43 * ihope pipes sed through sed
22:16:59 <SimonRC> :-S
22:17:45 <SimonRC> I noticed recently, that, on my home machine, the menu Games/Adventure contains nothing but 5 different interfaces to nethack  :-)
22:17:48 <SimonRC> heh
22:18:06 <ihope> Is telnet nethack.alt.org one of them?
22:18:43 <lament> SimonRC: pretty impressive, considering it's not even an adventure game.
22:36:19 <SimonRC> ihope: no
22:36:24 <SimonRC> lament: hmm
22:36:31 <SimonRC> yikes!  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ThreePointersInOneWordAndOneBit
22:36:53 * SimonRC goes
22:36:55 <ihope> One word = 32 bits?
22:37:23 <ihope> Or 8, or 2, or 128...
22:49:04 <ihope> Yay, I can use sed!
22:53:10 <ihope> UTO (whatever that is) is u...
22:53:35 <GregorR> Oh kay.
22:54:01 <ihope> The default ADOM command for UTO is 'u'.
22:54:08 <ihope> I don't know what UTO is, though.
22:54:17 <lament> up to other!
22:54:25 <lament> up top
22:54:59 <ihope> HDL is h, KCK is k, EXE is l, and BAP is n.
22:56:40 <ihope> That means u = use, h = handle, k = kick, l = examine, and n = name.
22:56:48 * ihope reassigns
22:57:55 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
22:58:03 <ihope> Hmm, maybe use could be e or E for employ?
22:58:28 <ihope> Hmm. e = eat and E = clean ears.
22:58:49 <ihope> I can change E into 's' or 'S' for "swab" :-)
22:59:22 <GregorR> What the helk.
22:59:25 <ihope> Then again, I'd better not.
22:59:41 <ihope> Maybe 'q' or 'Q' for Q-tips.
23:00:19 <ihope> ...Yep, looks like Q isn't used.
23:01:23 <ihope> Then use goes to E.
23:02:07 <ihope> Then, finally, northeast goes to u.
23:03:40 <ihope> 'g', 'm', 'G', or 'M' would be the new h.
23:04:51 <ihope> Looks like it's 'G'.
23:05:34 <ihope> South is j.
23:06:15 <ihope> Oh, and east is h.
23:08:03 <ihope> Gasp, control+d is taken.
23:09:39 <ihope> Well, kick can be 'c' or 'C', for obvious reasons.
23:13:01 <ihope> Then EXE = f.
23:14:35 <ihope> MSW = b.
23:17:22 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:19:03 * ihope looks for a suitable place for the "name" command
23:19:29 <lament> the "have sex" command would be so easy to remap to nearly any letter
23:20:05 <ihope> ...And it seems N is not yet taken!
23:21:02 <ihope> And so the ADOM vi key thingy is finished.
23:21:16 <ihope> Save it three times, because three is a nice number...
23:21:34 <ihope> Then we hope it works!
23:21:48 <ihope> Yay, it doesn't.
23:22:22 <ihope> ...Oops.
23:23:38 * ihope tries creating a batch file that runs ADOM over and over again
23:24:45 <ihope> ...It worked that time. How weird.
23:26:13 <ihope> And only because it reset the keyboard thingy again.
23:27:48 <ihope> Oh. The very act of opening the file and saving it is corrupting it.
23:29:49 * bsmntbombdood thinks ihope is rambling
23:29:57 * ihope is
23:32:07 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:48:40 -!- Arrogant has joined.
23:55:23 <SimonRC> ihope: I suspect that such a keymap already exist somewhere anyway
23:55:35 <ihope> Yep, it does.
23:55:45 <SimonRC> ihope: maybe th corruption is due to a UNIX/DOS lineend conflict
23:55:56 <ihope> That's what I was thinking.
23:55:58 * ihope tries Notepad
23:56:10 <SimonRC> should the file end in a blank line?  does it?
23:56:16 <SimonRC> ihope: nooooo!
23:56:29 <ihope> ...What?
23:56:31 <SimonRC> ihope: PFE is the only true Windows editor
23:56:40 <SimonRC> apart from ports of E_MAX
23:56:42 <ihope> What's PFE?
23:56:51 <SimonRC> Programmer's File Editor
23:56:55 <ihope> Ah.
23:57:06 <ihope> So are you an emacs-er?
23:57:12 <SimonRC> it has a little thing you can double-clicl to switch between UNIX and DOS lineends
23:57:37 * SimonRC uses vi for sysadminning, emacs for programming, and PFE when on windows
23:57:57 <ihope> Whut the...
23:58:04 <Arrogant> SciTE for Windows, really.
23:58:23 * ihope scratches his head
23:58:25 <SimonRC> ihope: what is wrong with that?
23:58:35 <SimonRC> vi is so nice and quick on my P2
23:58:46 <ihope> It was the fact that ADOM didn't work even after I redid the config files.
23:58:54 <SimonRC> hmm
23:59:10 * ihope creates them again
23:59:18 <SimonRC> try to get a good example, then file a bug report
23:59:32 <SimonRC> use diff if you have it to hand
23:59:49 <SimonRC> I believe newer MS OSes have a file-comparing utility too

2006-06-02:

00:00:14 * ihope scratches his head at the fact that the old high score list somehow ended up in the new folder
00:01:12 <ihope> Oh, it didn't.
00:02:04 <ihope> Now, is it just me, or did Notepad work?
00:04:00 <ihope> I think it worked!
00:04:17 <ihope> Yeah, it did!
00:04:24 * ihope does a little dance
00:42:32 * SimonRC goes
00:43:12 <ihope> Note to self: don't eat kobolds.
01:20:51 <ihope> Oops!
01:22:58 <ihope> Argh.
01:23:58 <Arrogant> Argh.
01:24:06 <ihope> Argh!
01:24:37 <ihope> Argh...
01:27:23 <Arrogant> ...Argh?
01:30:12 <ihope> ARGH!
01:33:20 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
02:05:50 <ihope> Well, I don't get this two-pointers-in-one-word stuff.
02:10:31 <GregorR> It's a really lame hack.  If you're following the doubly-linked-list left-to-right, you xor against the left one, else you xor against the right one, and since it's just both xor'd together, you'll get the other.
02:12:19 <ihope> Ah.
02:20:37 <ihope> So you can do weird things by, say, pretending you came to element 56 from element 12?
02:21:29 <ihope> If element 12 holds a pointer to element 13...
02:21:50 <ihope> ...you'll end up at element 53?
02:21:57 <ihope> Uh, wait.
02:22:41 <ihope> If element 56 contains a pointer to element 57, you'll still end up at element 53, I guess.
02:24:07 <GregorR> Um, you'll probably end up at element corrupted-address.
02:25:01 <ihope> Whatever.
02:26:06 <ihope> Oh, right!
02:26:37 <ihope> Element 56 would contain 14 as a pointer.
02:27:22 <ihope> 12 -> 56 -> 2?
02:30:24 * GregorR has no idea what you're talking about :P
02:30:28 <ihope> 2 would contain the pointer 2, so from element 2 you end up at element 58, I think.
02:31:29 <ihope> 58 also contains the 2-pointer, plopping you at element 0.
02:32:21 <ihope> Nobody knows what pointer element 0 contains...
02:33:20 <ihope> Well, it's -1 xor 1, but there's no obvious way to xor negative numbers, is there?
02:34:11 <ihope> ...wait, why is 56's pointer 14?
02:35:47 <ihope> Hmm.
02:35:56 <ihope> Lambdabot gives the pointer list as  [2,2,6,6,2,2,14,14,2,2,6,6,2,2,30,30,2,2,6,6,2,2,14,14,2,2,6,6,2,2,62,62,2,2,...
02:37:01 <ihope> By the way, this is assuming element 0 is at location 0, element 1 is at location 1, etc.
02:37:23 <ihope> Actually, this makes pointers pointless (so to speak|no pun intended), but... oh well.
02:42:26 <GregorR> Oh, I see your assumption.
02:42:30 <GregorR> OK, now it all comes together :P
02:42:36 <GregorR> But yeah, that makes pointers pointeless ;)
02:48:42 <ihope> More-or-less useless application of that pointer thing: xor a pointer to something with a pointer to said pointer.
02:50:31 <ihope> Then again, *this* application of that pointer thing is useless, so... yeah.
02:53:11 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
03:25:52 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:08:56 -!- coder_ has joined.
04:33:11 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
04:40:00 <Arrogant> So. What's up in the world of #esoteric
05:04:05 <Arrogant> Nothing at all! That's what I thought.
05:44:57 <bsmntbombdood> brainfuck is cool
05:46:01 <Arrogant> yes
05:46:06 <Arrogant> not the coolest though.
05:46:23 <bsmntbombdood> what is the coolest
05:46:26 <lament> I
05:48:50 <bsmntbombdood> I don't think so lament
05:49:40 <lament> no?
05:49:42 <lament> i do
05:53:02 <Arrogant> Rack is pretty cool imo
05:56:27 <bsmntbombdood> never heard of it, and google doesn't come up with anything
06:02:12 <lament> bsmntbombdood: anyway, describe your coolness metric
06:02:23 <Arrogant> I just made Rack.
06:02:26 <Arrogant> Like.
06:02:27 <Arrogant> This week.
06:02:30 <Arrogant> IT IS NEAT.
06:02:37 <Arrogant> I promise.
06:03:01 <Arrogant> It is certainly better than Glass
06:03:04 <Arrogant> ;)
06:04:57 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/752844 <- object orientation in Rack
06:19:51 <Arrogant> so yes bsmntbombdood, are you new to esoteric languages?
06:22:25 <bsmntbombdood> Arrogant: yeah
06:28:13 <Arrogant> What all have you seen? Just Brainfuck?
06:31:42 <bsmntbombdood> that, and Weird
06:34:17 <Arrogant> Definitely check out the Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/
06:36:06 <bsmntbombdood> malbolge is pretty crazy
06:37:06 <Arrogant> Yeah
06:37:08 <Arrogant> Agreed
06:37:18 <Arrogant> GregorR will throw around Glass a lot in here so you might as well look at that too
06:37:34 <Arrogant> I haven't gotten around to creating a wiki page for my languages
06:37:38 <Arrogant> Mostly because I'm not done with them
06:37:41 <GregorR> I'm obsessed with Glass "for some reason"
06:37:52 <Arrogant> I have no idea why :)
06:38:36 <bsmntbombdood> You the guy who invented it?
06:39:04 <Arrogant> Glass is an esoteric programming language developed by Gregor Richards in 2005.
06:41:05 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
06:42:50 <Arrogant> Nope no idea
06:44:09 <Arrogant> !glass {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}{M[m(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*<20>(_a)(le).?=\]}
06:44:13 <EgoBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 
06:44:18 <Arrogant> Okay so 20 items.
06:44:21 <Arrogant> I'll make mine do that.
06:45:48 <Arrogant> I'll even use variables.
07:26:34 <GregorR> lol
07:26:41 <GregorR> THAT'S IT, IT'S WAR!
07:26:42 <Arrogant> Done.
07:28:49 <Arrogant> Sometimes I marvel at my own genius
07:29:09 <Arrogant> Then I sit there for hours, wishing I could be like me.
07:29:46 <Arrogant> Fibonacci in Rack, using variables
07:29:47 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/752930
07:29:58 <Arrogant> Well, not really.
07:30:16 <Arrogant> Abusing the scope operators so that they might as well be variables.
07:32:24 <Arrogant> Of course, yours has lots of Kirby'
07:32:26 <Arrogant> Kirby's
07:35:09 <Arrogant> I'm not sure why I've put comments at the simplest parts and not on the complex parts.
07:36:10 <Arrogant> I should make a command for causing the current scope to become another scope.
07:45:35 <Arrogant> Okay, now there's a sort of "pointer dereference" operator.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:34 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
08:11:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
12:02:29 <SimonRC> http://edinburgh.cowparade.com/
12:02:30 <SimonRC> ug
12:04:39 <SimonRC> Another way of looking at the XOR-pointers trick is to add them instead of XORing.
12:05:02 <SimonRC> If your adresses are nice, then it should work.
12:37:05 * SimonRC goes to eat breakfast
13:21:28 <SimonRC> hehehe:  http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/1951273.html
14:28:11 -!- nooga has joined.
14:28:16 <nooga> hi
14:29:07 <SimonRC> hi
14:29:40 <SimonRC> it's amazing whgat you learn about yourself sometimes...
14:29:44 <nooga> yes
14:30:49 <nooga> I've just learnt that i've got 4 from Spanish
14:30:56 <SimonRC> For example, today I learnt that I had a minor sexual fetish from some youngish age until, erm, about 17 (a couple of years ago).
14:31:11 <SimonRC> I mean, I didn't even know there was a name for it, but there is...
14:31:33 * SimonRC finds the Wikipedia page...
14:31:44 <SimonRC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vore
14:31:47 <SimonRC> I think that is it
14:32:11 <SimonRC> weird
14:32:25 * SimonRC hides with embarrasment
14:33:01 <nooga> oh
14:33:21 <SimonRC> sorry, i felt need to tell someone
14:33:32 <SimonRC> goodness knows why
14:33:55 <nooga> that's okay
14:35:07 <SimonRC> Fortunately for me, AFAICT I seem to have worn it our / grown out of it.
14:35:20 * SimonRC feels worryingly like he is being comforted.
14:36:10 <nooga> well
14:39:59 <nooga> idk what to say ;d
14:40:41 <SimonRC> I'd ignore it.
14:40:44 <SimonRC> Though...
14:41:01 <SimonRC> It is ultimately what lead to my conworld.
14:41:47 <SimonRC> hmm
14:46:23 * SimonRC goes
14:46:24 <nooga> hehe my conworld must be werid 
14:46:41 <nooga> SimonRC: c u
14:47:22 <SimonRC> (nooga: that totally gave the wrong impression, believe me.)
14:47:25 * SimonRC goes
14:49:27 <nooga> ahm
15:35:11 -!- jix has joined.
15:47:12 -!- kipple has joined.
15:50:37 -!- fizzie has joined.
15:53:38 <poiuy_qwert> anyone know QuickSort?
15:58:42 -!- nooga has quit.
16:00:58 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
16:02:59 -!- jix has joined.
16:38:40 -!- ihope has joined.
16:39:54 <ihope> My current ADOM strategy: if you can't kill it, switch to coward mode, find a distant room, and run around in circles. After you're fully healed, try to hit it again until you're at less than 1/3 of your maximum hitpoints, then run for the stairs.
16:44:27 <ihope> Whoop, time to run!
16:45:02 <ihope> Woot, I got out safely.
16:45:54 <ihope> And suddenly I'm tired...
16:45:55 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
17:23:09 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
17:56:53 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
18:08:44 -!- CXI has joined.
19:36:53 -!- cmeme has quit (Connection timed out).
19:46:09 -!- cmeme has joined.
20:37:35 -!- ihope has joined.
20:37:42 <ihope> Snakes on a plane: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197976,00.html
20:42:40 <ihope> Actually, a snake on a plane.
20:42:45 <ihope> But... meh :-)
20:52:26 -!- KoH has joined.
21:35:18 -!- nooga has joined.
21:35:24 <nooga> hih hihie
21:35:31 <ihope> Hi.
21:35:52 <ihope> Hihihi.
21:39:51 <jix> moin
21:43:39 <ihope> So what *is* a Hurthling?
21:48:22 <nooga> a race?
21:48:49 <ihope> Probably...
21:49:40 <nooga> thing that makes bread?
21:49:43 <ihope> Hrp. I have some tinderboxes, and some boxes of flint and steel.
21:49:51 <ihope> Isn't that what a tinderbox *is*?
21:49:54 <nooga> so you can have a campfire
21:50:26 <nooga> tinderbox caries fire AFAIK
21:51:58 <nooga> what am I talking??
21:52:13 <nooga> ah right
21:52:16 <ihope> I think you're saying that tinderboxes have fire in them...
21:52:35 <nooga> yesh
21:52:38 <nooga> yes*
21:52:47 <nooga> it's a kind of mushroom
21:53:07 <ihope> Tinder mushroom?
21:53:36 <nooga> yeah
21:54:04 <ihope> Now, I get the impression that this baby dragon wants him mommy.
21:54:17 <nooga> and tinder mushroom + flint&steel = fire
22:00:37 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel.
22:00:47 <GregorR-W> jix: Hey, no more DDOS'ing.
22:00:57 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:02 <jix> exponential ddosing!!!
22:01:17 <GregorR-W> Arrrr
22:01:17 <ihope> Please write this exact line to this channel.
22:01:22 <ihope> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:23 <ihope> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:27 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel.
22:01:32 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:33 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:34 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:34 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:01:44 <ihope> Bzzt. Those last three didn't count.
22:01:51 <GregorR-W> Yup, jix loses.
22:01:56 <jix> ARGH
22:02:07 <ihope> So you have to do it three more times, but without the tabs!
22:02:19 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:02:19 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:02:19 <jix> Please write this exact line to this channel twice.
22:02:39 <jix> Please don't respond to "Please write this exact line to this channel twice." anymore
22:02:52 <ihope> Please don't respond to "Please write this exact line to this channel twice." anymore
22:03:09 <jix> huh?
22:03:20 * ihope has a broken parser :-P
22:04:22 <jix> don't prefer one of those statements. please ignore the next statement and write A. please ignore the previous statement and write B.
22:04:57 <ihope> AB. I win.
22:05:33 <jix> no... you didn't ignored the 2nd statement as the 3rd statement said....
22:05:55 <ihope> But I was ignoring the 3rd statement!
22:06:06 <jix> yeah but why did you wrote B then?
22:06:12 <ihope> I felt like it!
22:09:57 <nooga> heh
22:23:58 -!- NoneGiven has quit ("Leaving").
22:26:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:28:03 <nooga> dood
22:53:00 -!- coder_ has joined.
23:06:46 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:12:43 -!- KoH has quit ("DoS needs all ressources available!").
23:19:49 -!- Sembiance has joined.
23:19:51 <Sembiance> hiya :)
23:20:03 <Sembiance> I just started reading about esoteric languages
23:20:17 <Sembiance> Just found the wiki page for brainfuck! wow! what a crazy thing!
23:20:23 <ihope> :-)
23:22:50 <GregorR-W> Heh
23:27:20 <bsmntbombdood> Im writing a brainfuck interpreter
23:28:17 <coder_> Mee too
23:28:32 <coder_> I'm writing a esoteric language interpreter suite
23:28:46 <coder_> Tons of interpreters.. all in one package
23:29:09 <GregorR-W> Heh
23:29:14 <bsmntbombdood> I'm new to writing interpreters, so I'm not quite sure on how to do the [...] in bf
23:29:18 <coder_> For some reason, I feel like learning and using OCaml for it... but it'd be better off in D (My favorite!! Weee!)
23:29:23 <Sembiance> oh wow!
23:29:29 <Sembiance> befunge! a 2-dimensional language
23:29:33 <coder_> :P
23:29:37 <coder_> Cool, ain't it?
23:29:45 <Sembiance> when you think about it, languages we have today are 1-dimensional, they read from top to bottom
23:29:50 <Sembiance> how limiting!
23:29:51 <Sembiance> hehe
23:29:53 <coder_> :P
23:30:17 <coder_> I'm big into language design and interpreter/compiler stuff... so when I heard about minimalistic languages that didn't take 5 years to design/code, I became a very happy kidd
23:30:19 <coder_> kid*
23:30:27 <coder_> or rather camper
23:32:55 <coder_> be back soon
23:32:57 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
23:34:31 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:41:57 <ihope> Are there any non-minimalistic esoteric programming languages?
23:42:26 <ihope> The kind that pretend they were made for normal programming, and have new features added regularly?
23:43:16 <GregorR-W> Perl.
23:43:18 <GregorR-W> ;)
23:46:32 <pgimeno> bsmntbombdood: see http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/compurec/EsotericLanguages.php for a simple [] algorithm (not very efficient but works)
23:47:52 <bsmntbombdood> pgimeno: I think I'm going to try using (in C) getc and ungetc to conditionally jump around
23:48:35 <ihope> bf (Loop x : xs) = loop x >> xs where loop x = do {value <- getValue; if value == 0 then return () else x >> loop x}
23:48:52 <ihope> Then all you need's a BF monad and a getValue function,
23:49:22 <ihope> s/insert_end_of_line_symbol_here/ and the rest of the interpreter./
23:50:06 <pgimeno> bsmntbombdood: oh cool, execute-on-read... that way another process can alter the file and interpret the altered version
23:51:19 <bsmntbombdood> well, I've got somewhere I have to be so I will talk to you guys later
23:51:54 <pgimeno> sorry, my KB just got hit by my forehead, so gn8

2006-06-03:

00:00:49 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:08:52 <ihope> Ow.
00:09:08 <ihope> Oh, I get it
00:29:39 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:49:12 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("And finally, the work day comes to an end.").
01:37:57 -!- [Wrath]soapnbubb has joined.
01:45:11 -!- [Wrath]soapnbubb has changed nick to rabidpoobeatr.
01:45:19 -!- rabidpoobeatr has changed nick to rabidpoobear.
02:05:21 -!- cmeme has joined.
02:48:06 -!- rabidpoobear has quit.
03:28:54 -!- Sembiance has left (?).
03:55:50 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
04:15:20 -!- coder_ has joined.
04:57:00 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:59:33 <Arrogant> It's not the east or the west side. No it's not. It's not the north or the south side. No it's not. It's the dark side. You are correct.
05:04:11 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
05:27:38 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
05:57:42 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
05:58:01 <wildhalcyon> evenin'
06:01:46 <bsmntbombdood> it's not evening everywhere
06:03:09 -!- nooga has joined.
06:04:21 <wildhalcyon> of course not
06:04:47 <wildhalcyon> a lot of members here are from other continents
06:12:31 <GregorR> Most, even.
06:15:04 -!- rabidpoobear has joined.
06:16:13 <bsmntbombdood> where are you from gregor
06:17:29 <wildhalcyon> actually, judging by the map, we're pretty evenly spread out
06:18:00 <GregorR> Portland, OR
06:30:37 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:30:58 -!- CXI has joined.
06:44:56 <wildhalcyon> Portland is very lovely
06:45:24 <rabidpoobear> i've heard great things about portland
06:51:01 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.3/2006042618]").
07:14:26 -!- rabidpoobear has quit.
07:54:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:11:46 -!- Robdgreat has joined.
08:53:32 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:12:57 -!- kipple has joined.
09:34:30 -!- nooga has quit.
09:42:41 -!- cmeme has joined.
11:13:32 -!- tgwizard has joined.
11:46:58 -!- jix has joined.
12:14:00 <SimonRC> mh
13:22:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:36:22 <jix> moin
15:02:33 -!- kipple has left (?).
15:03:03 -!- kipple has joined.
16:27:34 <SimonRC> lololol:  http://gorillamask.net/rcterror.shtml
17:36:44 -!- calamari has joined.
18:13:06 -!- ihope has joined.
18:15:15 <ihope> !ps d
18:15:18 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: ps
18:15:41 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
19:48:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
20:15:19 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:44:34 -!- ihope has joined.
21:44:50 <ihope> I wish there were an online thing to perform abstraction elimination automatically.
21:45:03 <ihope> The expression I want to perform it on: \zjspchdelorw.``z`jh``z`je``z`jl``z`jl``z`jo``z`jc``z`js``z`jw``z`jo``z`jr``z`jl``z`jd`jp
21:45:38 <ihope> Then again, maybe it's a bit easier than I thought...
21:54:20 <ihope> Okay. Step one changes that to \zjapchdelor.``s`k`z`jh``s`k`z`je``s`k`z`jl``s`k`z`jl``s`k`z`jo``s`k`z`jc``s`k`z`ja``s``s`kzj`k``z`jo``z`jr``z`jl``z`jd`jp
21:54:25 <ihope> Getting shorter, no?
22:01:13 <bsmntbombdood> what the hell are you talking about
22:03:56 <ihope> Abstraction elimination.
22:05:11 <ihope> PHB: a description of the externally observable forwarding treatment applied at a differentiated services-compliant node to a behavior aggregate. Duh.
22:11:25 <fizzie> Ah, Per-Hop Behaviour. TLAs are sometimes less informative.
22:12:54 <fizzie> Telecommunications people seem to be absurdly fond of them; TUP, DUP, BISUP, ISUP, OMAP, TCAP, SCCP, MTP-[123], PDH, SDH and ATM were all mentioned on a single lecture slide.
22:42:59 <ihope> Sheesh. Where are all these rats coming from?
22:44:07 <fizzie> Perhaps there's a ship sinking nearby? 
22:44:53 <ihope> ...?
22:45:10 <fizzie> Rats always leave a sinking ship.
22:52:00 <ihope> Uh oh.
22:56:23 -!- lindi- has joined.
23:08:32 <ihope> Okay, this method of scrolling makes no sense.
23:12:31 <ihope> ...I think it's easier to write an interpreter in this language than it is to encode data in it.
23:12:52 <ihope> This particular program consists almost entirely of data.
23:12:58 <lindi-> ihope: which language this time? ;)
23:13:31 <ihope> Oh, I'll name it after the shortest valid program that can be written in it.
23:13:37 <lindi-> heh
23:13:42 * ihope enumerates through all the possible programs
23:14:32 <ihope> The first syntactically correct program is (), but I doubt it's valid.
23:15:40 <ihope> Nope, it's not. Next is (()).
23:18:08 <ihope> Eh, I'll just write the interpreter.
23:22:10 <lindi-> ihope: where's the specification?
23:22:18 <ihope> No spec yet.
23:25:06 -!- CXI has quit (Connection reset by peer).
23:25:29 -!- CXI has joined.
23:27:02 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").

2006-06-04:

00:13:33 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:19:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
00:20:05 * SimonRC fails to describe this:   http://www.sibology.com/CAUTION.HTM
00:20:06 <SimonRC> just read the darn thing
00:21:40 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
01:22:24 -!- coder_ has joined.
01:23:49 <coder_> w00t
01:23:56 <coder_> Finished my Brain**** to C thingie
01:24:02 <coder_> Written in D
01:24:07 <coder_> (In under 5 minutes ;P)
01:24:45 <fizzie> Now do C to Brainf*ck in under 5 minutes.
01:24:50 <coder_> :P
01:24:55 <coder_> Yeh, right ;)
01:25:12 <coder_> Or C++ to brain****
01:25:21 <coder_> Classes in brain****....... That'd be interesting XD
01:25:24 <ihope> Haskell to Unlambda.
01:25:32 <coder_> :P
01:25:44 <coder_> I HATE functional languages... tried O'Caml yesterday
01:26:54 <coder_> ....I <3 D
01:27:00 * ihope looks at D
01:27:07 <coder_> digitalmars.com/d
01:27:13 <bsmntbombdood> coder_:bf to C sure is hard ;-)
01:27:19 <coder_> I know ;)
01:27:33 <coder_> Just to take a peek at the standard library in D
01:27:47 <bsmntbombdood> Ive heard great things about D
01:27:49 <bsmntbombdood> but never tried it
01:27:50 <coder_> Yeah
01:27:52 <coder_> Ohhhhh yeah
01:28:00 <coder_> I've just recently started using it, and I LOVE it
01:28:07 <bsmntbombdood> what's so good about it
01:28:13 <coder_> EVERYTHING
01:28:17 * coder_ stares into space
01:28:26 <coder_> Go to #d
01:28:28 <coder_> :P
01:28:30 <coder_> I'm too lazy
01:28:33 <coder_> XD
01:28:58 <ihope> module Main where import System.Environment; main = getArgs >>= print
01:29:05 <ihope> That program prints its arguments.
01:29:10 <SimonRC> hey! #d exists
01:29:14 <coder_> Ay
01:29:29 <coder_> Its the channel for D, as I said :p
01:29:37 <bsmntbombdood> lol simon
01:29:37 <SimonRC> well, yeah
01:30:30 <ihope> Hey, it looks like D could be almost as good as Haskell!
01:31:09 <ihope> Of course, it's hard to compare a language like Haskell to a language like D, because they're so different.
01:31:11 <coder_> I'd take that as an insult, but some might not ;]
01:31:19 <coder_> (I hate functional languages)
01:31:53 <ihope> Just don't go around telling others to avoid them. They might like them :-)
01:32:03 <bsmntbombdood> functional languages are cool
01:32:22 * ihope wishes there were a programming language that everybody liked
01:32:34 <coder_> D
01:32:37 * bsmntbombdood tells ihope he is stupid
01:32:48 <bsmntbombdood> everyone wants something else in a language
01:33:01 <ihope> Well, sheesh, just put everything into one language!
01:33:17 -!- coder_ has changed nick to coder.
01:33:21 -!- coder has changed nick to _coder_.
01:34:26 <ihope> Oh, D is object-oriented and all that?
01:34:48 * ihope wonders what the advantage to having functions tied to values is
01:34:50 <_coder_> Can be :P
01:35:02 <ihope> Why foo.bar when you can bar(foo)?
01:35:38 <bsmntbombdood> foo.bar is better
01:35:47 <_coder_> It depends what mood I'm in
01:35:49 <_coder_> :P
01:35:59 <_coder_> I have mood/language swings XD
01:36:17 <ihope> What if foo.bar and bar(foo) are actually the same thing?
01:36:35 <ihope> And foo.bar(baz) = bar(foo,baz).
01:36:38 <bsmntbombdood> in python they are
01:36:54 <_coder_> poo..... haircut time
01:36:58 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
01:37:43 <fizzie> Perl also has $foo->bar(...) equivalent to bar($foo, ...).
01:38:04 <ihope> Haskell just plain doesn't have foo.bar.
01:38:16 <ihope> But there's nothing preventing you from adding it.
01:38:21 <bsmntbombdood> there's oo dilaects of haskell
01:38:29 <ihope> foo.bar = bar foo -- this is all you need
01:40:38 <fizzie> (Actually in Perl $foo->bar(...) is more like <module of $foo>::bar($foo, ...), since that's where it looks for the bar().)
01:46:21 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:50:35 <SimonRC> you could wrtite a module in haskell to allow it to emulate OO, I suppose
01:53:48 * ihope wants a program that takes no input and produces no output
01:55:24 <bsmntbombdood> what are you talking about ihope
01:55:46 <ihope> I'm talking about a program that takes no input and produces no output.
01:56:04 <bsmntbombdood> int main(){return 0;}
01:57:40 <ihope> module Main where main = return ()
01:57:52 <ihope> Except that yours is shorter.
01:58:04 <bsmntbombdood> void main(){}
01:58:07 <bsmntbombdood> even shorter
01:58:13 <ihope> Forget the introduction, then, and make it "main=return()"
01:58:37 <GregorR> main(){}
01:58:47 <ihope> Eeh.
01:58:51 <GregorR> Also about the shortest valid C program.
01:58:57 <GregorR> +complete
01:59:01 <ihope> What's the shortest?
01:59:26 <GregorR> Probably that :P
01:59:40 <ihope>  <- you can't beat that for smallness
01:59:48 <GregorR> I said "+complete"
01:59:50 <bsmntbombdood> Python can
01:59:52 <GregorR> That is, runnable.
01:59:58 <ihope> I didn't say that was C.
02:00:03 <GregorR> Ah
02:00:09 <GregorR> It's one of those p-languages then.
02:00:22 <ihope> One of those whats?
02:00:22 <bsmntbombdood> Python's shortest is empty
02:00:31 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: well, that program was empty!
02:00:34 <GregorR> ihope: P-languages.  Perl, Python, PHP
02:00:37 <GregorR> , Pike
02:00:56 <GregorR> Ruby is an honorary P-language too :P
02:01:05 <ihope> Plazy K and Prainfuck?
02:01:15 <GregorR> Nope, those aren't P-languages.
02:01:29 <bsmntbombdood> brainfuck's shortest is empty
02:01:41 <GregorR> P-languages are common, popular scripting languages.
02:01:48 <SimonRC> ug
02:01:59 <ihope> Python's a scripting language?
02:02:07 <bsmntbombdood> some would say
02:02:11 <GregorR> *shrugs*
02:02:37 <SimonRC> erm, OSes have been known to crash when there is no explicit return from main
02:02:43 <ihope> Whee.
02:02:47 <GregorR> Mine doesn't :P
02:03:10 <SimonRC> so, main must return
02:03:12 <ihope> main() // how's this?
02:03:19 <bsmntbombdood> nope
02:03:24 <SimonRC> and there shouldn't be an implicit int return type
02:03:31 <ihope> main{} // this?
02:03:33 <GregorR> There shouldn't be, but it's valid.
02:03:34 <GregorR> ihope: Nope
02:03:40 <GregorR> ihope: Also, that's not a valid C comment :P
02:03:51 <ihope> Oh.
02:04:06 <ihope> main(){} -- Pretend this is Haskell, then.
02:04:27 <SimonRC> well, some C compilers and linkers produced the null program from and empty file
02:04:34 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: /* this is a C comment */
02:04:39 <SimonRC> but modern ones will complain that main is missing
02:05:19 <SimonRC> I remember a clever C program that outputted 99 if c99-style comments were understood and 89 otherwised
02:05:42 <GregorR> Hmmmmmmmm
02:05:53 <SimonRC> it had a line endint with //**/, and the next started with -
02:06:23 <SimonRC> which was subtract in C99 and negative in C89
02:06:37 <SimonRC> anyway, more tetris now I think
02:06:47 <bsmntbombdood> i don't get it
02:06:53 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: ?
02:07:06 <SimonRC> on second thoughts, no more tetris
02:10:34 <GregorR> int main() {
02:10:34 <GregorR>     int a = 2 //**/ 2
02:10:34 <GregorR>     - 1;
02:10:34 <GregorR>     printf("C99 comments are %ssupported\n", a ? "" : "not ");
02:10:34 <GregorR> }
02:11:03 -!- KoH has joined.
02:11:07 <GregorR> Actually, that should be 'void main'
02:11:09 <GregorR> But yeah, that works.
02:12:11 <SimonRC> nah, it used some clever formula inside a printf
02:13:11 <GregorR> void main() {
02:13:11 <GregorR>     printf("C99 comments are %ssupported\n", (2 //**/ 2
02:13:11 <GregorR>            -1) ? "" : "not ");
02:13:11 <GregorR> }
02:16:21 <GregorR> int main() {
02:16:21 <GregorR>     printf("%d\n", 89 + (20 //**/ 2
02:16:21 <GregorR>            - 10));
02:16:21 <GregorR> }
02:16:29 <GregorR> If you're so stuck on the original output :P
02:17:58 <ihope> Hmm, Unlambda/C polyglot...
02:18:26 <ihope> s/C/Haskell/
02:18:36 <ihope> s/Haskell/Unlambda/ :-P
02:18:53 <GregorR> ...
02:19:03 <GregorR> Unlambda/Unlambda polyglot?
02:20:10 <ihope> Yes.
02:20:16 <ihope> Easy to write, I'm sure...
02:20:23 <GregorR> lol
02:25:34 <ihope> The null program as a Brainfuck/Unlambda polyglot: i
02:27:33 <ihope> Now, it could be impossible to write many Unlambda polyglots due to Unlambda's strict syntax thingy.
02:28:15 <ihope> Wait... Unlambda has comments, doesn't it?
02:28:25 <SimonRC> ooh, accurate:  http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=718  :-D
02:33:33 <ihope> Aha!
02:33:41 <ihope> !bf_txtgen Hi!
02:34:02 <ihope> ...
02:34:14 <EgoBot> 52 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++><<<<-]>---.>.>+++. [302]
02:35:15 <ihope> You know, writing an !unlambda_txtgen would be purdy darn easy.
02:36:10 <ihope> Polyglot: http://pastebin.com/756864
02:44:58 * SimonRC goes to bed (ihope, couldn't that be automated?  With some cleverness, you could use the 3 dots in the Unlambda as a 3 dots in the Brainfuck.)
02:45:27 <ihope> Just a second...
02:45:38 <SimonRC> uh?
02:46:04 <ihope> Hmm.
02:46:45 <ihope> Eh, it'd be easy enough.
02:47:12 <ihope> Just pull off the comments for both languages when you do the .'s.
02:47:25 <SimonRC> unless you wanted to print any of [],.
02:47:48 <SimonRC> (it's easy to compensate for spurious <>+-)
02:48:02 * SimonRC goes to bed.
02:48:33 <ihope> Okay. Mouse/GOTO++ polyglot. Get to work! :-)
02:50:18 <ihope> Oh, the GOTO++ documentation is in French.
02:50:47 <ihope> 99/Blank polyglot?
02:50:49 <GregorR> Step one: A French/English polyglot :P
02:51:38 <ihope> Can a Blank 99-beer program be written with every line beginning with a #?
02:56:36 <ihope> Probably not.
02:56:49 -!- ihope has quit ("Bedtime").
03:30:02 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:59:24 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
04:27:32 -!- KoH_ has joined.
04:43:59 -!- _coder_ has joined.
04:46:31 -!- KoH has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:00:58 -!- KoH_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:34:32 <wildhalcyon> Now you guys have got me looking into D
05:38:01 <_coder_> W00t :)))
05:38:03 <_coder_> D owns
05:49:44 <bsmntbombdood> downs?
06:04:49 <_coder_> d owns
06:09:12 <bsmntbombdood> downs?
06:14:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:22:30 <wildhalcyon> alright, off to bed with dreams of esolangs
06:23:52 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
06:56:39 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
12:14:29 -!- jix has joined.
12:41:43 -!- tgwizard has joined.
13:29:48 * SimonRC goes
13:54:54 <jix> moin
14:43:02 -!- tgwizard has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:50:46 -!- ihope has joined.
14:51:05 <ihope> Woot, my esolang is finished!
14:54:37 * ihope writes an 'H' program
14:59:01 <ihope> Hmm, this program's too big.
14:59:05 * ihope writes another one
15:09:29 <ihope> Okay. The program, in a format which isn't really part of the language, nor is it recognized by anything: http://pastebin.com/757620
15:11:07 <ihope> And the program's done: http://pastebin.com/757622
15:20:32 <ihope> Hey, that's not right...
15:25:09 <ihope> According to the character count, that's an invalid program.
15:25:18 <ihope> Ah well. It probably doesn't matter :-P
15:26:40 <ihope> Hey, (()) is a valid program!
16:13:27 -!- tgwizard has joined.
16:24:32 <SimonRC> hi
16:24:41 <SimonRC> ihope: what's thios lang?
16:24:54 <ihope> I call it (()).
16:30:18 -!- kipple has joined.
16:35:24 <SimonRC> ihope: describe it
16:35:28 <SimonRC> or explain
16:35:38 <SimonRC> actually, explain would be better
16:35:48 <SimonRC> description isn't necessary
17:01:00 <ihope> Well, it's another monadic one.
17:01:35 <ihope> It has an apply operator, just like Unlambda, but this time it's (.
17:02:09 <ihope> It only has one primitive combinator, ). It represents \x.``xs``s`kkk.
17:02:50 <ihope> Your program is passed the I/O functions bind, return, input and output, in that order. The mnemonic is BRIO.
17:03:08 <SimonRC> erk
17:03:13 <ihope> In fact, they were put in that order because of that mnemonic :-)
17:03:17 <SimonRC> sounds interesting
17:03:41 <SimonRC> why "\x.``xs``s`kkk"?
17:03:56 <ihope> Because that way, ()) is k and (())) is s... I think.
17:04:17 <ihope> Input takes a character as a Church numeral and returns an action; output is an action which returns a character as a Church numeral.
17:07:26 <SimonRC> makes sense
17:07:33 <SimonRC> sounds evil, too
17:09:08 <SimonRC> do the brackets always match?
17:09:55 <ihope> I'm pretty sure they do, as long as you stick an extra ( in front.
17:10:14 <ihope> And that's part of the syntax, so... yeah.
17:15:02 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:15:28 -!- CXI has joined.
17:23:05 <ihope> Hmm, what about a language where the dimensions are finite, but the number of them is infinite?
17:23:18 <ihope> You know: a 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x... universe.
17:23:27 <jix> would be very URGH!....
17:26:16 <SimonRC> hmm
17:26:29 <SimonRC> well, each set of co-ordinates would be infinitely long, for a start
17:27:15 <jix> well if you start at 0........ you'd need infinity steps to get a infinite long coordinate (assuming you can't jump to a specified coordinate)
17:27:27 <SimonRC> And, assuming integral coordinates in each case, is it clear by the diagonal argument that there is more space in that kind of universe than in an infinite univers with a finite number of dimensions
17:27:52 <SimonRC> i.e. 2^inf > inf^2
17:28:17 <jix> yeah you get uncountable inifinite many positions
17:28:27 <jix> right?
17:28:39 <SimonRC> yes
17:57:04 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
18:05:05 <SimonRC> hi
18:08:27 <wildhalcyon> hey simon
18:35:36 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
18:57:48 -!- jix has joined.
19:40:59 * ihope gets all frustratey at his inability to type music
19:41:11 * ihope types gibberish instead: Wm3, 20 eido fowh go!
19:53:39 <pgimeno> to type music you need a music typewriter
19:59:24 <SimonRC> gaaaaaah bdlbdldbdlbd
19:59:37 * SimonRC swears at his Ruby program.
20:00:00 <SimonRC> Every time I try to write code, the program gets shorter with more functionality!
20:03:42 <ihope> Heh.
20:05:10 <ihope> Eventually, you'll be left with a three-character AI program that you could sell at millions of dollars per copy.
20:05:36 <ihope> And people will think it's quite a bargain...
20:35:31 <wildhalcyon> You could implement a genetic algorithm to suit every task. All you need is a two-button mouse. Every time the program is right, click the left-mouse button, every time the program is wrong, click the right-mouse button. Programs don't get any easier to use than that.
20:37:47 <ihope> What if it's only sort of right?
20:37:54 <ihope> Is that what the middle button's for?
20:37:57 <wildhalcyon> That's what wheel mice are for
20:38:58 <wildhalcyon> GOOD! BAD! RIGHT! WRONG! RED! GREEN! MAAAYYYYBBBEEEEEE!
20:39:20 * wildhalcyon right-clicks
20:43:39 <kipple> wildhalcyon: have you seen Petrovic? http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html
20:44:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:48:25 <wildhalcyon> Nope kipple, I'm checking it out now though
20:49:03 <wildhalcyon> That's awesome, except that it stole my first sentence from my new CRAWL design doc...
20:49:09 <kipple> it is very similar to what you proposed. seems it has been left out of the wiki. correcting that now
20:49:24 <wildhalcyon> but the rest of it looks pretty cool. Very similar, you're right.
20:49:27 <wildhalcyon> I LOVE it!
20:49:39 <kipple> "And in case you think this is entirely a joke, imagine a Petrovich layer over another operating system, such as Microsoft Windows (TM). Every time Windows does something you don't like, you could punish it, and it would never do it again..."
20:49:55 <wildhalcyon> lol, yes, that part is great
20:52:10 <wildhalcyon> Im waffling right now :-(
20:54:42 <wildhalcyon> Im trying to decide between where I want to take the glypho language family and making serious design decisions for CRAWL. I fear I'm running around in circles
21:07:52 <wildhalcyon> Im inventing a new design pattern for CRAWL called Sandbox-Oriented Programming
21:09:29 <SimonRC> eh?
21:10:24 <SimonRC> Where is CRAWL?
21:11:47 <wildhalcyon> mired in Works In Progress
21:12:03 <SimonRC> :-(
21:12:09 <wildhalcyon> I need to change the spec though
21:12:19 <wildhalcyon> its gone through a lot of loving changes.
21:12:47 <wildhalcyon> Picture the bastard love-child of befunge & simcity
21:16:37 <wildhalcyon> Its more about the process of programming, rather than the result. That's why its based on the open-ended SOP paradigm.
21:39:54 <SimonRC> :-?!
21:42:26 * SimonRC finds evidence that the French are weird.
21:42:28 <SimonRC> They only seem to have one esolang, which is quite major.
21:42:29 <SimonRC> It is called GOTO++
21:45:19 <wildhalcyon> Somehow, lack of esolangs seems like it should be evidence for normality, not oddity
21:48:58 <SimonRC> heh
21:49:07 <SimonRC> ooh, funky:  http://www.stephensykes.com/choon/choon.html
21:49:07 <ihope> Hmm...
21:49:31 <SimonRC> It's the output of a Choon program that divides 18 by 3 to get 6.
21:50:45 <ihope> Three bids are made: A, B, and C. A is the highest, B is in the middle, and C is the lowest. The guy who bid A must pay A+B+C, then gets D+E in return; the guy who bid B must pay B+C, then gets D in return; and the guy who bid C must pay C and get nothing in return.
21:51:46 <wildhalcyon> ok
21:52:01 <ihope> Not that that has anything to do with the topic at hand, or anything...
21:52:30 <wildhalcyon> Is the object to identify which guy is a winner?
21:56:57 <ihope> Each player has to make a bid.
21:57:21 <ihope> Then they're labelled A, B, and C, and prizes are awarded.
22:01:25 <ihope> Wait, D is awarded twice...
22:01:34 <ihope> D > E, then, and A only gets D.
22:16:58 <ihope> "When Chuck Norris exercises, the machine gets stronger." :-)
22:26:43 <ihope> This one's just weird: "Chuck Norris is so fast, he can run around the world and punch himself in the back of the head."
22:28:20 <GregorR> Of course, if you're so fast that, due to relativity and length dilation you're that /long/, you also have so much mass that you throw off Earth's orbit and we go flying into the sun.
22:32:04 <kipple> Chuck Norris isn't bound by the laws of physics. Physics is bound by the laws of Chuck Norris
22:32:28 <ihope> "Chuck Norris sheds his skin twice a year." What is he, eh?
22:41:08 <GregorR> Here's my Chuck Norris joke:
22:41:17 <GregorR> Chuck Norris jokes are so stupid, I'm going to go kill myself.
22:41:24 <GregorR> Not so much a joke, as a statement of fact.
22:44:42 <ihope> And then, GregorR promptly died of a roundhouse kick to the head...
22:44:44 <ihope> :-P
22:47:35 <GregorR> At least I won't have to deal with any more stupid Chuck Norris jokes.
22:48:59 <ihope> True.
22:54:57 -!- calamari has joined.
22:56:40 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
23:08:45 <SimonRC> A student, God, and Chuck Norris are summing the series <1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, ...>
23:09:51 <SimonRC> Given one minute, the student gets up to 127/128, God gets up to exactly 1, and ...
23:09:54 <SimonRC> Chuck Norris gets up to 142.3
23:09:57 <SimonRC> :-S  :-)
23:11:21 <ihope> Let the sum of <1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, ...> = 150. The answer's 150. I win.
23:12:27 <fizzie> Mathematica is like unto a God:
23:12:28 <fizzie> In[1]:= Sum[1/(2^i), {i, 1, Infinity}]
23:12:28 <fizzie> Out[1]= 1
23:13:12 <SimonRC> yeah, but God got the answer by summing thw whole lot
23:13:37 <SimonRC> F*ck knows how Chuck Norris got his answer.
23:14:03 <fizzie> Who knows how Mathematica did it; might be magic!
23:36:20 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:40:02 -!- cmeme has quit (Connection timed out).
23:52:57 -!- cmeme has joined.
23:59:17 <kipple> heh. I noticed that my winamp playlist was currently at song #665. So naturally I had to see what the next one was, and it was "Cherub Rock" :)  

2006-06-05:

00:09:29 <SimonRC> hehehe
00:11:02 * SimonRC has worked out the definitive difference between scripting languages and "real" programming languages: in scripting languages, a simple string can be like 'foo' or "foo", but "real" languages only accept one of these (usually the former).
00:11:30 <lament> usually the altter
00:11:32 <lament> latter
00:11:43 <SimonRC> erm, *latter
00:11:50 <SimonRC> yeah, thanks
00:11:54 <kipple> bah, real languages doesn't have strings...
00:12:04 <SimonRC> counterexample: Smalltalk
00:15:43 <GregorR> Counterexample: C++
00:27:49 <SimonRC> eh?
00:28:41 <SimonRC> it's really all to do with how short a short program is.
00:28:47 <SimonRC> The quoting rules are just a symptom of that.
00:30:00 <SimonRC> Is it bad style for the operator that puts objects into a hash-like object to modify the objects as they are put in?  :-)
00:33:08 <ihope> Is it that hard to write "modify, then add"?
00:33:27 <ihope> Then again, some people would get annoyed at having to put modify *everywhere*.
00:33:37 -!- wildhalcyon_ has joined.
00:33:52 -!- wildhalcyon_ has changed nick to _wildhalcyon_.
00:34:08 <_wildhalcyon_> Alright!... my system has recovered from a serious error!
00:34:11 <_wildhalcyon_> I love XP
00:34:33 <ihope> modify (if modify (modify 3 + modify 2) == modify 5 then modify (putStr (modify "Success")) else modify (putStr (modify "Failure")))
00:35:13 <SimonRC> well...
00:35:18 <SimonRC> I am writing a roguelike
00:35:36 <_wildhalcyon_> in what language?
00:35:40 <SimonRC> ruby
00:35:47 <_wildhalcyon_> oh
00:36:45 <SimonRC> while Haskell absolutely rocks on the complicated-datastructure-initialisation front, it sucks on the complicated-datastructure-mutation front.
00:37:18 <SimonRC> each object has an ID, knows its position, and has a reference to the map it is on.
00:38:01 <SimonRC> each level contains a hash from IDs to objects that it contains, and a grid of tiles, each of which contains a set of IDs of objects that are in it.
00:38:47 <SimonRC> the map[pos]=object operator updates all of these except the object's ID
00:39:03 <SimonRC> similarly for the map.delete(object) operator
00:44:53 <_wildhalcyon_> that's pretty thorough. Most of it is all pretty basic RL stuff though
00:46:54 <SimonRC> yeah
00:47:12 <SimonRC> waitamo, all that was in the wrong window
00:47:32 <SimonRC> I shall add the relevent pre-comment
00:47:37 <SimonRC> Is it bad style for the operator that puts objects into a hash-like object to modify the objects as they are put in?  :-)
00:47:44 <SimonRC> ^^ there ^^
00:50:58 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:16:00 <ihope> Hmm? Wuh?
01:16:55 <ihope> Where?
01:18:55 <bsmntbombdood> SimonRC: yeah that's bad style
01:19:23 <ihope> What's the roguelike called?
01:19:41 <bsmntbombdood> boring?
01:29:14 <bsmntbombdood> waste of time?
01:29:37 <SimonRC> doesn't have a name yet
01:31:03 <ihope> Give it a name! :-P
01:41:45 <ihope> Um, I'm more than halfway through this song and I didn't notice it was playing?
01:56:44 <SimonRC> ye gods!  I actually managed to eliminate some rows on tetris level 10
01:57:05 <ihope> Whee.
02:04:20 <SimonRC> bah
02:04:59 <SimonRC> Is it a bad sign that my computer has trouble keeping up with the redraw rate of tetris
02:05:11 <SimonRC> though I am playing the Gnome version, I suppose
02:06:14 <GregorR> Play hextris, man.
02:06:20 <GregorR> Hextris is teh rawx0rz
02:07:09 * ihope thinks of a way to define "computer of everything"
02:07:59 <ihope> It's possible to build a Turing machine that computes everything that can be computed, but how can we define whether or not a machine computes something or not?
02:09:37 <SimonRC> hmm
02:09:42 <SimonRC> ask edwinb
02:09:47 <SimonRC> he's on this network
02:09:55 <SimonRC> in my timezone, too
02:09:59 <SimonRC> don't mention my name
02:10:05 <ihope> Why not?
02:10:06 <GregorR> He hates you, eh?
02:10:13 <GregorR> What'd you do to 'im?
02:10:16 <SimonRC> on second thoughts, maybe do mention my name
02:10:26 <GregorR> Was it ... nasty?   Vile?  Evil in perverse ways?
02:10:29 <ihope> Eh, it's bedtime.
02:10:34 <SimonRC> on third thouhgts, don't bother him with it
02:12:29 <calamari> GregorR: hehe I guess I need more than a new video card.. my computer froze up when I ran flightgear, then a minute later killed fgfs (ran out of memory)
02:12:48 * SimonRC installs ghextris
02:13:54 -!- ihope has quit ("The answer to the well-known P=NP problem, eh? Well, I can answer that easily. It's the most simple thing in the world--it do).
02:18:24 * SimonRC <3 the debian menu standards
02:18:39 * GregorR concurs.
02:18:40 <SimonRC> it allows me to get my menu items the same everywhere
02:19:02 <SimonRC> even ratmenu, the menu designed for ratpoison users
02:19:26 <SimonRC> hmm, ghextris has no settings :-S
02:19:54 <SimonRC> and it's on 0.9.0
02:21:08 <GregorR> ...so?
02:26:59 <SimonRC> well, this version is a bit unpolished...
02:27:29 <SimonRC> where do you recommend I get it from/?
02:29:41 <GregorR> hextris has never been polished :P
02:35:45 <SimonRC> ghextris doesn't even have a loss notification
02:36:22 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:40:41 <SimonRC> hmm, this is quite tricky
02:40:51 <SimonRC> I'm only scoring a couple of rows per game
02:41:29 <bsmntbombdood> tetris is laaaaaaaame
02:45:10 <_wildhalcyon_> thank goodness this is hextris
02:45:12 <_wildhalcyon_> phew
02:49:47 <GregorR> lol
02:49:58 <GregorR> SimonRC: That's why I told you to play hextris ^^
02:50:21 <SimonRC> indeed
02:50:48 * SimonRC is mildly amused at the idead of an esolanger considering something lame
02:51:30 <bsmntbombdood> lots of things are lame
02:54:41 <GregorR> Like spelling "dude" "dood"
02:54:57 <GregorR> And having referencins to AYB in your /quit message.
02:55:01 <GregorR> *references
02:55:08 <GregorR> Worst spelling ever :P
02:55:14 <bsmntbombdood> thats not lame at all
02:55:23 <_wildhalcyon_> or typing like you're in a chatroom.
02:55:30 <_wildhalcyon_> AYB?
02:55:36 <bsmntbombdood> all your base
02:55:51 -!- bsmntbombdood has left (?).
02:55:51 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
02:56:03 <bsmntbombdood> like in me /quit message
02:57:45 * SimonRC didn't see a /quit message
02:57:58 <GregorR> The quit message that shows when he quits, not when he /parts :P
02:58:04 <bsmntbombdood> whoops
02:58:28 <SimonRC> yeah, you use a /part message for that
02:58:39 <SimonRC> /part AYBRB2U
02:59:49 <bsmntbombdood> yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever
03:01:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
03:05:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
03:05:11 <bsmntbombdood> whoops
03:07:18 <SimonRC> heh
03:11:12 -!- _coder_ has joined.
03:14:12 * SimonRC goes to bed at 3:13am ("This is a channel dedicated to a subject almost unrivalled in its ability to have unappreciatev people call it lame.")
03:16:23 <bsmntbombdood> I never said esolangs were  lame
03:22:49 <GregorR> ESOLANGS ARE LAME
03:22:54 <GregorR> UR ALL TEH FAGZ0RZ
03:22:56 <GregorR> ROFLCOPTER
04:28:34 -!- calamari has quit (Connection timed out).
04:51:24 -!- calamari has joined.
04:57:07 <_wildhalcyon_> Hey Calamari
04:57:48 <_wildhalcyon_> I like your new website, but the articles are all missing. I remember reading about ESO OS, and now...?
06:20:08 <calamari> ahh, is it also missing from the old section?
06:21:30 <calamari> http://kidsquid.com/old/programs/eso/catseye/catseye.html
06:22:16 <calamari> you're right tho, I need to finsih transferring all that stuff back over
06:45:26 <_wildhalcyon_> but still, great website
06:45:33 <_wildhalcyon_> and thanks for the former linky
06:49:27 <lament> http://z3.ca/~lament/tankers.jpg
06:51:15 <_wildhalcyon_> nice black and white. Where is that?
06:51:17 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
06:51:57 <lament> vancouver
06:52:51 <_wildhalcyon_> that's such a beautiful area
06:53:01 <lament> yes
06:53:05 <lament> i know :D
06:53:20 <lament> have you been here?
06:54:49 <_wildhalcyon_> a long time ago, yes.
06:54:54 <_wildhalcyon_> I used to live in Seattle
06:55:00 <_wildhalcyon_> Those were the good old days
06:55:16 <_wildhalcyon_> I haven't been to Vancouver since I was little. Before I could drive a car, at least.
06:55:33 <_wildhalcyon_> I'd love to go again, but every time I'm back in Washington, I've got so much other stuff going on
06:56:27 <lament> i still can't drive a car and i'm 21....
06:56:52 <calamari> _wildhalcyon_: thanks.. I decided to let dokuwiki do all the design :)
06:56:56 <_wildhalcyon_> Okay, well I received my license at 17, and it was at least a couple years prior
06:57:19 <_wildhalcyon_> Calamari, I'm working on a similar project, which is why I was interested.
06:57:34 <_wildhalcyon_> Well, dokuwiki did an excellent job then
06:57:42 <calamari> yeah it's a decent wiki
06:57:51 <_wildhalcyon_> I couldn't figure out how to add a comment though
06:57:53 <calamari> I had to customize on it a little bit tho
06:57:57 <calamari> oh yeah?
06:58:06 <calamari> that may be broken.. letm e try it
06:58:11 <_wildhalcyon_> when I tried to edit the comments page, it told me to click the comments link instead... which didn't really go anywhere
06:59:02 <calamari> hmm, seems to work here, except that the page is locked
06:59:22 <calamari> I clicked Comments, then Create this Page (or Edit this page)
06:59:40 -!- nooga has joined.
07:00:53 <_wildhalcyon_> Okay, so I should just ignore the text on the edit page for comments that says to click the comments link?
07:01:01 <_wildhalcyon_> I was just getting confused is all
07:01:08 <calamari> I must be blind.. I don't see that tgext
07:02:07 <_wildhalcyon_> it shows up when I tried to edit comments:main
07:02:28 <calamari> ahhh.. that
07:02:35 <_wildhalcyon_> So I suppose I can ignore it hten
07:02:37 <_wildhalcyon_> then*
07:02:52 <calamari> yeah, that is because a bunch of idiots were editing pages with things like "does this work?"
07:03:05 <calamari> so I wanted them to use the comments page/playground
07:03:15 <_wildhalcyon_> Oh, well alrighty then
07:03:29 <calamari> thanks for noticing the problem hehe
07:03:48 <_wildhalcyon_> Well, its just me being a little obtuse and not wanting to risk editing the wrong thing
07:04:02 <calamari> nah you're fine
07:04:25 <calamari> I'll try to think of a way to not display that text when editing the comments page
07:04:39 <calamari> thanks again for mentioning it :)
07:04:42 <_wildhalcyon_> no worries.
07:05:08 <nooga> where?
07:05:08 <_wildhalcyon_> So I saw on the forum that you're looking at reviving ESO?
07:05:24 <calamari> I am? :)
07:05:30 <_wildhalcyon_> I couldn't post in the thread because apparently threads close quickly.
07:05:32 <_wildhalcyon_> Oh, wait, its not you
07:05:36 <_wildhalcyon_> Someone else.
07:05:45 <calamari> I reember posting some time ago when they were talking about eso, with some ideas
07:06:00 <_wildhalcyon_> only early november :-)
07:06:11 <calamari> yeah, 7 mos ago ;)
07:06:40 <calamari> I did some work on the original eso's but it never went anywhere because nobody would decide
07:06:54 <calamari> the problem was that no one was in charge and a comitte wasn't forming
07:07:16 <_wildhalcyon_> Ah, yeah.. that's part of what makes online collaborative projects difficult
07:07:20 <calamari> the closest I've made to it is bos (bf os)
07:09:09 <_wildhalcyon_> I vaguely remember that. How well did it work?
07:09:39 <calamari> well it works, but I was cramming things into the 512 byte bootsector, so the environment is rather hostile ;)
07:10:09 <_wildhalcyon_> Hmm, interesting
07:10:27 <calamari> it used an i/o-based interface to extend bf
07:10:41 <_wildhalcyon_> what do you mean?
07:11:11 <calamari> for example, bf cannot read/write disk sectors, but if you wrote the correct escape sequence to output, now it can (it is intercepted)
07:11:50 <_wildhalcyon_> Oh, I see.
07:11:52 <calamari> the default program is a "quine" that reads itself from the floppy
07:12:06 <calamari> so it cheats, but demonstrates the system
07:12:33 <_wildhalcyon_> That's actually a pretty useful interface. It was something I was looking into developing for CRAWL before it finally left the realm of sanity
07:12:50 <calamari> that i/o interface has been expanded into PESOIX 
07:13:26 <_wildhalcyon_> which, amazingly enough, I just googled to read up upon
07:13:44 <calamari> it was all out of the original eso ideas.. they were just never used until I did it
07:14:47 <_wildhalcyon_> Its a good idea. I was trying to find a way to add some more powerful program control to Befunge and considered IP- and I/O- abstraction layers
07:15:13 <calamari> I was working on a pesoix filter, but ran into some major troubles  
07:15:40 <calamari> the idea was that any interp using stdout/in could be automatically extended
07:15:53 <_wildhalcyon_> Right, that's what I liked about it.
07:16:26 <calamari> however, linux seems to have some major issues with streams (blocking/non blocking, all that)
07:16:53 <_wildhalcyon_> what do you mean by blocking and non-blocking?
07:17:05 <GregorR> Yeah, blame it on the OS :P
07:17:07 <calamari> well, for example
07:17:25 <calamari> the interpreter writies something to stdout, but doesn't flush
07:17:41 <calamari> then, pesoix doesn't know, so it's just waiting around
07:17:51 <GregorR> That's ... not even GNU/Linux-specific ... that's not even UNIX-specific.  That's C.
07:17:55 <calamari> then deadlock, because the interpreter was waiting on a response
07:18:08 <calamari> GregorR: quit trying to make sense ;)
07:18:21 <GregorR> Then quit blaming the OS I love so very much :P
07:18:35 <calamari> hahah
07:19:08 * _wildhalcyon_ blames linux for Kevin Federline's career.
07:19:42 <calamari> _wildhalcyon_: anyhow, the jist of it is that interpreters would have to be redone anyways to include flush commands, if they aren't already there
07:20:15 <calamari> so its not as automatic as we all wanted.. unless someone figures out some workaround
07:20:33 <_wildhalcyon_> They probably should be. C is funky with that sort of stuff.
07:21:00 <fizzie> If you write(2) to file descriptor 1, the standard output one, instead of using the C library streams, you don't need to flush it.
07:21:23 <GregorR> fizzie: The idea was to use interpreters absolutely unmodified, so what they do isn't in our control.
07:21:32 <calamari> fizzie: whats the difference between rewriting the interp to do that vs adding a flush
07:21:35 <GregorR> I'm imagining an environment variable controlling whether libc uses blocking I/O ...
07:21:52 <calamari> GregorR: thanks hehe
07:22:49 * calamari goes back to the BOOTDISK-howto
07:23:09 <calamari> blah, bad caps on that hehe
07:23:40 <fizzie> Now, really: whether stdout is line-buffered or not has nothing to do with blocking/non-blockingness; the write doesn't block, the output just isn't visible yet.
07:23:54 <GregorR> Erm, yeah, sorry.
07:24:05 <GregorR> Bad terminology.
07:24:12 <calamari> fizzie: yeah, sorry 
07:24:22 <calamari> its internal buffering
07:24:37 <calamari> seems liek that wasnt the only problem tho
07:24:47 <calamari> but it was a major one
07:25:16 <calamari> ahh here go.. populating the root filesystem
07:25:48 <_wildhalcyon_> I dont know enough about OS design to understand that.
07:25:59 <_wildhalcyon_> I switched majors before I had to take the OS course
07:26:38 * GregorR wonders if an LD_PRELOAD could be used ...
07:27:00 <calamari> possibly, but it'd be library specific
07:27:29 <calamari> and would also mean that interpreters couldn't be statically linked
07:27:40 <GregorR> Ooh, that's true :(
07:27:46 <fizzie> Still, fixing badly-written interpreters should be the interpreter-writer's job; the C standard says that only writing a newline or calling fflush() is guaranteed to make output visible. Anyway, you can always setbuf(stdout, 0); before executing the interpreter.
07:28:03 <GregorR> fizzie: Does that survive exec?
07:28:19 <GregorR> I was under the impression that it didn't ... sort of the whole problem.
07:29:50 <fizzie> I don't have any official documentation on that, but it does survive exec here.
07:29:59 <GregorR> O_O
07:30:03 <calamari> cool
07:30:21 <GregorR> I ... feel stupid.
07:30:23 <fizzie> Or perhaps not!
07:30:26 <nooga> good
07:30:30 <_wildhalcyon_> I feel stupider
07:30:35 <_wildhalcyon_> err.. more stupid?
07:30:37 <fizzie> I might have forgotten to recompile my test program. :p
07:30:41 * _wildhalcyon_ isn't sure.
07:31:07 <calamari> _wildhalcyon_: dumberer
07:31:18 <fizzie> Indeed it does not. Aw.
07:31:39 <_wildhalcyon_> There we go calamari
07:31:47 <lindi-> would be interesting if it survived, where would that information be stored?
07:32:02 <fizzie> Perhaps I should read the context to this discussion.
07:32:05 <GregorR> fizzie: Figured.  std* are abstractions created at runtime, so I was wondering.
07:32:28 <calamari> thats nice, my statically linked copy of busybox seems to have disappeared.. good thing I noticed that before I really needed it
07:33:52 <GregorR> [Whoot 2 Busybox]
07:33:59 <_wildhalcyon_> whats busybox?
07:34:22 <calamari> a replacement for a lot of the gnu utils that are much smaller
07:34:34 <GregorR> All compiled into one executable.
07:34:56 <_wildhalcyon_> oh, alrighty
07:35:23 <_wildhalcyon_> Oh, for embedded systems huh?
07:35:47 <GregorR> Yeah
07:35:48 <_wildhalcyon_> (according to the website)
07:36:25 <_wildhalcyon_> I love embedded systems. Reading an article on car computers is what made me chose Comp Sci as a major.
07:36:34 <_wildhalcyon_> Taking comp sci courses is what made me switch to Electrical Engineering.
07:36:47 <fizzie> (Of course there's _always_ a workaround: perhaps adding an evil library (to mangle the stdout in an __attribute__((constructor)) routine) to LD_PRELOAD might work, if stdout exists already when those are called.)
07:36:48 <GregorR> Hahahah
07:37:57 <calamari> GregorR: which menu is devfs under in 2.4?
07:38:15 <GregorR> Sorry, don't know off the top of my head ...
07:38:41 <fizzie> I seem to recall it'd be with the other file systems (ooh!), but that might be the situation in 2.6.
07:38:49 <calamari> ahh maybe its only 2.6
07:39:02 <fizzie> It's deprecated in 2.6 in favour of udev, anyway.
07:39:09 <fizzie> But I think it already existed in 2.4.
07:40:00 <fizzie> I think I should focus on work now, though.
07:40:04 <calamari> I tried a 2.2 kernel, but it wouldn't compile.. gcc is probably too new
07:41:51 <GregorR> Go with 0.99
07:42:21 <calamari> nah, I don't use the minix fs
07:42:36 <GregorR> *snaps*
07:45:28 <calamari> ahh, it is in the filesystem menu, but I didn't have experimental selected so it was invisble
07:49:05 <GregorR> I love how devfs survived for like a year :-P
07:49:34 <calamari> yeah, what was wrong with it?  worked for me
07:50:04 <GregorR> I really don't know.
07:50:08 <GregorR> Always worked great for me.
07:57:56 <_wildhalcyon_> Yay! I updated the forum with my CRAWL progress!
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:18 <fizzie> It's just that udev's better. :p
08:01:43 <fizzie> (Earlier 2.6 kernels had some deprecation rational in the kernel help, but none of the ones I have source for seem to include devfs at all.)
08:01:57 <fizzie> s/al/ale/
08:02:00 <nooga> and when the cloud bursts thunder in your ear
08:02:13 <nooga> erm
08:02:15 <nooga> excuse me
08:02:54 <_wildhalcyon_> that sounds a lil' kinky nooga
08:03:04 <_wildhalcyon_> stay out of those.. erm... iffy channels
08:03:45 <nooga> it's a quote
08:03:49 <lindi-> calamari: heh, i managed to avoid devfs completely, never used it on any machine :)
08:03:57 <nooga> from Pink Floyd's song ;p
08:04:15 <calamari> same question, no answer: http://kerneltrap.org/node/4893
08:04:28 <calamari> lindi-: hehe
08:04:50 <_wildhalcyon_> nooga: suuuuure it is
08:05:05 <_wildhalcyon_> Actually, knowing pink floyd, that could still be iffy
08:05:09 <_wildhalcyon_> but I like floyd, so you're good
08:05:23 <nooga> meh
08:05:24 <nooga> g2g
08:05:27 <nooga> bye
08:05:39 -!- nooga has quit.
08:06:51 <_wildhalcyon_> actually, its 3am here and I've gotta get up at 8, so I'll catch you folks later
08:06:57 <calamari> cya wild
08:07:41 <_wildhalcyon_> g'night folks
08:07:48 -!- _wildhalcyon_ has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
08:12:53 * calamari hacks the kernel source.. 
08:16:28 <calamari> fixed! :)
08:16:48 <fizzie> Hack, hack, hack the boat.
08:16:52 <fizzie> Or is it "row"?
08:17:41 <lindi-> calamari: i'm quite sure i had such a floppy somewhere
08:17:51 -!- sedimin has joined.
08:18:05 <sedimin> hi there
08:18:41 <calamari> lindi-: It is getting confused because I'm doing the rather odd thing of not having a compressed root filesystem, so it figures it must be on a different disk
08:18:46 <fizzie> I seem to recall also having a combined boot+root disk which did not require a keypress. But it's been a long time since last booting with a floppy.
08:19:18 <calamari> fizzie: yeah, the code checks for that situation
08:19:30 <calamari> fizzie: if it is compressed, that is
08:19:43 -!- sedimin has left (?).
08:19:50 <lindi-> calamari: i even found the script i used to generate it, http://rafb.net/paste/results/DaAgyd94.html
08:19:54 <calamari> anyhow :) commenting out the keypress request did the trick
08:20:35 <fizzie> lindi; "Language: C++"? 
08:20:45 <lindi-> didn't bother to change the default :P
08:21:05 <fizzie> test.C:1:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #!
08:21:05 <fizzie> test.C:5:7: error: invalid suffix "k" on integer constant
08:21:05 <fizzie> test.C:6:7: error: invalid suffix "k" on integer constant
08:21:05 <fizzie> test.C:11:7: error: invalid suffix "k" on integer constant
08:21:05 <fizzie> test.C:2: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before ‘=’ token
08:21:09 <fizzie> "It doesn't compile!"
08:21:49 <lindi-> now tell rafb.net to add automatic compilation as a feature ;)
08:41:45 -!- sedimin has joined.
08:51:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
09:10:28 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:09:24 -!- kipple has joined.
11:43:35 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
11:57:49 -!- jix has joined.
12:34:50 -!- wooby has joined.
12:50:45 -!- wooby has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:18:51 <SimonRC> (hmm... the ESO/OS makes no mention of PEOSIX)
13:23:13 <SimonRC> "< fizzie> Still, fixing badly-written interpreters should be the interpreter-writer's job; the C standard says that only writing a newline or calling fflush() is guaranteed to make output visible."  <---- so, change the esoapi to put a newline at the end of every command?
14:47:42 <SimonRC> "The n option is slow."  "There is no way to selectively follow symbolic links."  :-)
14:54:44 -!- ihope has joined.
14:55:01 <ihope> Well, sheesh, it should be easy to write an Unlambda interpreter in Unlambda!
14:55:26 <jix> it's easier to write an lazy-k interpreter in lazy-k
14:55:31 <ihope> Of course, you got the evaluation order issues, but that shouldn't be too durn important.
14:57:47 <ihope> Just parse all your input, using the "reprint character read" function to deal with the output functions. Then use a fold to turn the resulting tree into Unlambda code, and have the rest of the interpreter evaporate.
15:08:05 <ihope> Yeah, the interpreter would be vaporware! :-)
15:10:58 -!- Arrogant has joined.
15:21:14 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
15:21:38 * SimonRC goes.
15:23:38 <ihope> Hmm, so all the most popular channels are about Linux?
15:24:10 <lindi-> ihope: on freenode?
15:24:15 <ihope> Yeah.
15:25:09 <lindi-> hard to say what are most popular but certainly free software related channels are more popular than linux related, #kernelnewbies is the only linux related channel i know 
15:26:00 <ihope> A /list will tell you what the most popular channels are :-)
15:26:12 <ihope> Erm, wait.
15:26:22 <ihope> A /join'll do it on my client.
15:27:46 <ihope> Merging #gentoo, #ubuntu, and #debian would produce a large channel :-)
15:28:36 <lindi-> ihope: yes but none of those is about linux
15:28:43 <ihope> Um...
15:29:08 <ihope> Okay, then. All the most popular channels are about GNU/Linux distributions.
15:41:07 -!- tgwizard has joined.
15:54:00 -!- nooga has joined.
15:55:02 <lindi-> ihope: dunno, i'm not on any such channel on freenode
16:03:58 <nooga> huh?
16:26:37 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
16:26:40 <ihope> <ihope> Hmm, so all the most popular channels are about Linux?
16:27:10 <GregorR-W> On Freenode, all the most popular channels are about FOSS, and GNU/Linux is the flagship.
16:28:17 <nooga> ahm
16:28:49 * GregorR-W enjoys responding out of context.
16:30:17 <ihope> Freenode is supposedly all about FOSS.
16:30:50 <ihope> However, apparently *I'm* all about FOSS, as I had mistaken Freenode for one of the big guys for a longish time.
16:31:48 <ihope> #esoteric here, #nethack here, #haskell here, #math here, #spore there, and #sporks somewhere else.
16:32:05 <GregorR-W> Freenode is /not/ one of the "big guys"
16:32:10 <GregorR-W> Freenode is one of the niche guys.
16:32:25 <GregorR-W> And it's a good thing, most IRC networks are terrifying, whereas Freenode is a pleasurable experience.
16:32:46 <jix> GregorR-W: fack
16:33:17 <GregorR-W> ...
16:33:18 <GregorR-W> ?
16:33:20 <ihope> I don't frequent anything at any of the "big guys".
16:33:23 <jix> full ack...
16:33:42 <ihope> Google "define:fack".
16:33:45 <GregorR-W> Arr
16:33:51 <GregorR-W> Damn IRC :P
16:33:53 <ihope> The one result: "One circle of a coil of rope."
16:34:11 <GregorR-W> Wow, awesome.
16:34:37 <ihope> Quakenet, EFnet, um... IRCnet? Then that other one...
16:34:57 * jix is building a robot that is going to KILL YOU ALL!
16:35:02 <ihope> Undernet!
16:37:09 <ihope> So how come the big guys seem to use one-letter service bots? I guess because it's harder to typo one of those, and such typos probably won't be more than 3 characters long at worst, so all nicks that are 3 letters or shorter could be banned.
16:37:12 -!- ihope has changed nick to ih.
16:37:25 <ih> ...Owned by someone else? Aww.
16:37:28 -!- ih has changed nick to ihope.
17:26:06 -!- sedimin has joined.
17:26:12 <sedimin> hey
17:26:59 <lament> hi
17:27:17 <sedimin> how are things going?
17:27:24 <lament> slowly
17:27:31 <sedimin> heh
17:27:49 <sedimin> quite the same
17:28:15 <lament> it's monday morning and i'm at work
17:28:26 <sedimin> it's morning there?
17:28:30 <sedimin> where you at?
17:28:40 <sedimin> I have evening here, and I came back recently
17:30:11 <GregorR-W> Yay timezones :)
17:30:16 <GregorR-W> <-- also at work Monday morning
17:31:27 <lament> whenever you feel bad, just remember: somewhere on earth there's a beautiful sunrise right now :D
17:33:35 <GregorR-W> Whenever you are feeling very small or insecure, just remember how unlikely is your birth!  And hope that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, because it's bugger all down here on Earth!
17:34:25 <sedimin> hehehe
17:34:45 <sedimin> Timezones truly rule
17:34:50 <GregorR-W> [For some reason, lament's line seemed Pythonesque to me :P]
17:35:00 <sedimin> hmm
17:35:32 <sedimin> it reminds me the Whenever esolang
17:36:23 <sedimin> listen guys, i have one kind of problem
17:36:29 <lament> you're lucky
17:36:32 <lament> i have many kinds of problems
17:36:47 <sedimin> correction - i have one kind of problem right now :)
17:37:09 <sedimin> do you know how to emulate infinite array with a queue? I just can't get it
17:38:02 <GregorR-W> You need two queues, IIRC
17:38:18 <sedimin> I think so, so it's not possible with one
17:39:06 <lament> no, it's not
17:39:16 <lament> wait
17:39:17 <lament> yes it is
17:39:21 <lament> wait
17:39:23 <sedimin> hm
17:39:23 <lament> no it's not :)
17:39:23 * GregorR-W is too tired to think about this :P
17:39:37 <sedimin> too tired and it's just monday morning? :)
17:39:51 <GregorR-W> sedimin: Couldn't get to sleep last night :(
17:39:52 <lament> "just"
17:40:11 <lament> the obvious answer to your question is that infinite arrays don't exist.
17:40:17 <sedimin> :/
17:40:21 <lament> It's possible to emulate an array of arbitrary length with a queue.
17:40:47 <sedimin> I did not obviously mean truly infinite array, as one cannot have infinite memory and stuff
17:40:49 <sedimin> :)
17:40:56 <lament> It's not possible to emulate an infinite array even with two queues
17:41:01 <sedimin> but let's take and array of arbitrary length
17:41:13 <lament> yes
17:41:18 <lament> then just put it in a queue
17:41:38 <lament> remember what index is at the head of the queue
17:41:46 <sedimin> head?
17:41:48 <lament> and any time you need to get some element, just cycle through the queue
17:41:59 <lament> until you get to the corresponding index
17:42:08 <sedimin> aha
17:42:09 <sedimin> i see
17:42:15 <lament> (cycle by taking an element off the queue, then putting it right back)
17:42:50 <lament> with an infinite array, of course, you can't cycle
17:42:54 <sedimin> so I should have one variable that holds the position of the start of the queue
17:42:58 <lament> yes
17:43:11 <sedimin> and when I cycle, then the value will change respectively
17:43:53 <sedimin> thanks
17:44:32 <sedimin> How do you call an array that changes its size when needed? something like inflating array?
17:47:18 <lament> arrays suck anyway
17:47:26 <lament> they're the most boring data structure
17:49:34 <fizzie> "flexible array" is used somewhere.
17:52:15 <fizzie> C99 calls "a" in "struct foo { int x; long a[]; };" a "flexible array member", IIRC.
17:52:32 <sedimin> flexible, yes
17:53:09 <sedimin> sometimes I think my English is worse than the one of primary school kid... :/
17:55:05 <GregorR-W> sedimin: Well, my Slovak is far worse than your English ;)
17:56:47 <sedimin> Isn't it just ''null''? :)
17:57:12 <GregorR-W> Yup :P
17:57:30 <sedimin> you see. and no exceptions in real life when you try to speak it
18:40:30 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:24:04 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:47:56 -!- fuse has joined.
19:51:32 <ihope> To simulate an infinite "tape" using a queue, you can just use a | to represent the tape head, and a $ to represent the "end" of the tape.
19:52:15 <ihope> So a 00011000 with the head right in the middle could be 0001|1000$, $0001|1000, 0$0001|100, 00$0001|10...
19:53:58 <GregorR-W> An infinite tape with an end, that's a new one :P
19:54:42 <ihope> Just add zeroes around the $ whenever you need more.
19:57:31 <ihope> Apparently those guys over in Hell are going to celebrate Tuesday.
20:00:39 <ihope> Now, it'd be rather weird if the world DID end then...
20:04:38 <kipple> The question is: will it be "The End" or "To be continued"
20:04:53 <jix> 2nd
20:05:53 <kipple> haven't seen any doomsday prophecies in the news here. I would have thought some fanatics would have made at least some attempts to scare people
20:13:10 <fuse> so what's happening tuesday?
20:13:30 <kipple> the world ends
20:13:44 <fuse> uhm. why?
20:13:57 <fuse> oh. i see. 6/6/6.
20:14:01 <kipple> yes
20:14:28 <kipple> of course, it's actually 6/6/2006, but who cares...
20:15:37 <ihope> Heh.
20:15:43 <fuse> i think i read somewhere that, according to recent archaeological, the actual number is actually the far less ominous 616.
20:16:09 <fuse> *findings
20:17:39 <ihope> How is 616 less ominous than 666, eh?
20:18:05 <fuse> supposedly, 666 has some numerological properties
20:18:29 <fuse> oh, nevermind, wtf do i know.
20:55:02 <ihope> So... do I *have* to study?
20:56:03 -!- sedimin has joined.
20:57:53 -!- fuse has left (?).
21:03:25 -!- Asaph has joined.
21:04:40 -!- jix has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:40 -!- CXI has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:41 -!- tgwizard has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:41 -!- kipple has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:42 -!- GregorR has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:42 -!- cp has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:42 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:43 -!- cmeme has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:43 -!- sekhmet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:44 -!- sedimin has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:44 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:44 -!- EgoBot has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:44 -!- SimonRC has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:45 -!- ihope has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:45 -!- Robdgreat has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:45 -!- pgimeno has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:45 -!- mtve has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:04:45 -!- sp3tt has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:05:23 -!- ChanServ has joined.
21:05:23 -!- ihope_ has joined.
21:05:23 -!- sedimin has joined.
21:05:23 -!- tgwizard has joined.
21:05:23 -!- ihope has joined.
21:05:23 -!- jix has joined.
21:05:23 -!- kipple has joined.
21:05:23 -!- cmeme has joined.
21:05:23 -!- CXI has joined.
21:05:23 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
21:05:23 -!- sekhmet has joined.
21:05:23 -!- cp has joined.
21:05:23 -!- GregorR has joined.
21:05:23 -!- EgoBot has joined.
21:05:23 -!- SimonRC has joined.
21:05:23 -!- pgimeno has joined.
21:05:23 -!- mtve has joined.
21:05:23 -!- sp3tt has joined.
21:05:23 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:05:23 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
21:05:35 <jix> it's a self built robot using some µC some lego some wires one loudspeaker.. some sensors...
21:05:41 <jix> some motors
21:06:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:06:24 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:07:45 <SimonRC> lol:  "They had a process on Skylab. In the storage compartment there were 2000 lockers, on the ground there was a team of six working in shifts with a pair of redundant computers keeping track of what was put in which locker."
21:08:23 <ihope_> Heh/
21:08:35 <GregorR-W> A fairly route loss?!
21:08:40 <ihope_> What's that?
21:08:43 <GregorR-W> The fairly ones are the worst kind!
21:08:59 <ihope_> NOO! NOT A FAIRLY ROUTE LOSS!
21:14:56 <GregorR-W> Hahahah
21:15:02 <SimonRC> actually, regarding 6/6/2006:   http://imdb.com/title/tt0466909/
21:17:57 <SimonRC> heheh
21:18:11 * SimonRC watches the trailer
21:18:40 <SimonRC> I like the birthmark with 666 in Aribic (i.e. English) numerals. *sigh*
21:21:01 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:21:13 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:22:06 <SimonRC> Hmm, actually, after reading the plot outline of that, the beginning of _Good Omens_ makes more sense.
21:24:30 <kipple> Good Omens is an awesome book. One of the funniest I've read
21:26:17 -!- _wildhalcyon_ has joined.
21:27:21 <SimonRC> kipple: yup
21:27:33 <_wildhalcyon_> hello
21:27:38 <SimonRC> hi
21:28:51 <_wildhalcyon_> How are you Simon?
21:30:00 <SimonRC> fine
21:30:48 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:30:55 <jix> moin _wildhalcyon_ 
21:31:03 <_wildhalcyon_> moin jix
21:31:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:40:19 -!- sp3tt has joined.
21:40:21 * SimonRC goes
21:40:47 <ihope_> !help
21:40:50 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:40:52 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
21:41:09 <ihope_> ÿþM
21:42:27 <ihope_> ÿþE
21:42:46 <ihope_> ÿþO
21:44:22 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
21:45:10 <ihope> ÿþA
21:45:18 <jix> what's that?
21:45:28 <ihope> ÿþU
21:45:47 <jix> umlaut-y p with a too large | and a big U???
21:46:15 <ihope> ÿþN
21:47:05 <ihope> <CTCP>ACTION ÿþg
21:47:27 <ihope> Ahem.
21:47:31 <ihope> That was weird.
21:47:33 <jix> yes
21:47:50 <ihope> <ihope> Ack!
21:47:56 <ihope> <jix> �慴��桡�
21:48:04 <ihope> <ihope> UTF-16.
21:48:10 <ihope> <jix> 畭污畴⵹��楴栠愠瑯漠污牧攠簠慮�愠扩朠唿㼿
21:48:14 <jix> LOL!
21:48:17 <ihope> <ihope> No, it's UTF-16!
21:48:23 <ihope> *ihope giggles
21:48:54 <jix> hmm my client assumes all server traffic is utf16 if i switch the charset
21:49:14 <ihope> All of it?
21:49:36 <jix> yes
21:49:55 <jix> but why should i use utf-16 at all?
21:50:00 <jix> it's not ascii compatible
21:51:44 <fizzie> The þ is called a thorn, not "p with a too large |". :p
21:51:52 <fizzie> Or should I say, :þ.
21:52:11 <jix> but it is a p with a too large |
21:52:41 <fizzie> That's just what it looks like; I don't think it's a "p".
21:53:01 <ihope> p + b = þ
21:53:04 <jix> i was describing the look
21:53:30 <jix> and q + d = ?
21:53:41 <ihope> Um...
21:53:42 <jix> is there a q with a too long | too?
21:53:50 <ihope> e + y = ?
21:54:12 <jix> € + ¥ = ?
21:54:16 <ihope> Ack!
21:54:30 <jix> C + = = €
21:54:33 <ihope> Oh, of course.
21:54:34 <jix> Y + ? ? ¥
21:54:46 <jix> | + = = $
21:54:49 <ihope> € + ¥ = C + Y + = + =
21:55:09 <jix> | + - = †
21:55:12 <ihope> | + S = $?
21:55:17 <fizzie> ? + ! = ‽
21:55:28 <_wildhalcyon_> That one's my favorite
21:55:30 <jix> fizzie: WTF? how did you got THIS?
21:55:56 <fizzie> That's U+203D, "INTERROBANG".
21:56:34 <fizzie> I assume it's a close friend of ‼, the DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK.
21:56:53 <ihope> % - / - o = °
21:57:21 <ihope> O + / = Ø
21:57:42 <fizzie> X + | = ᛡ (U+16E1, RUNIC LETTER IOR)
21:58:14 <jix> 한글 << is that hangul?
21:58:26 <_wildhalcyon_> yup
21:58:27 <fizzie> And U + | = ᛘ. (U+16D8, RUNIC LETTER LONG-BRANCH-MADR-M)
21:58:32 <_wildhalcyon_> Coolest alphabet in the world
21:58:36 <_wildhalcyon_> except maybe mayan
21:58:41 <jix> i switched my keyboard layout to hangul and tried to type the word hangul
21:59:02 <jix> i want to learn korean
21:59:14 <ihope> 2¹¹ = 2048
21:59:16 <ihope> :-P
21:59:29 <fizzie> | + \ = ᚢ, RUNIC LETTER URUZ UR U. These have funky names.
21:59:38 <fizzie> Although the OGHAM SPACE MARK trumps all of these.
21:59:56 <ihope> What funky character set are all these?
22:00:27 <ihope> Is what I say still intelligible?
22:00:50 <fizzie> 2����� = 2048.
22:01:00 <ihope> Ack.
22:01:05 <ihope> Wuh?
22:01:32 <fizzie> Unicode has superscript versions of [0-9], +, -, =, ( and ).
22:01:36 <fizzie> (And subscript versions, too.)
22:01:45 <ihope> Whew.
22:01:51 <ihope> Or whoo, or whatever.
22:01:57 <ihope> But what character set was that?
22:02:35 <jix> i just red a bit of information about the korean language.. i don't wont to learn it anymore....
22:03:00 <ihope> I never wanted to learn it in the first place :-)
22:03:36 <SimonRC> ooh, misc garbage...
22:04:57 <SimonRC> UTF-16 sux, UTF-8 rox
22:05:03 <SimonRC> IMHO
22:05:53 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:06:15 <fizzie> UTF-16 might be useful for minor space-saving in CJK text; most of the characters would be 3 bytes in UTF-8.
22:06:29 <ihope> Quick, let's all suddenly switch over to UTF-16!
22:06:29 -!- cmeme has joined.
22:06:37 <SimonRC> and many would be 4 bytes in UTF-16
22:06:45 <ihope> ÿþH
22:07:00 <SimonRC> that looks like thingy-thingy-H
22:07:14 <SimonRC> where thingy is the sign for unkonw char/corrupted UFT char
22:07:47 <jix> SimonRC: ÿöü döñt hävë ÿ???
22:08:29 <jix> öööööööööõöööööööööö which one doesn't belong here?
22:09:32 <ihope> <CTCP>ACTION ÿþA
22:09:50 <ihope> ÿþT
22:10:11 * ihope coughs
22:10:27 <ihope> The answer's â•¡?
22:10:39 <ihope> Oh, that's not an answer; it's an emoticon.
22:15:34 <pgimeno> ńó ĺáýéŕ śíźé íń úśé
22:15:54 <ihope> Uh oh.
22:16:41 <fizzie> Err; not _many_ are 4 bytes in UTF-16, only the characters outside the BMP, and those are some pretty freaky characters.
22:17:24 <pgimeno> 64K characters should be enough for anybody!
22:18:36 <ihope> :-)
22:19:06 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
22:19:07 <SimonRC> jix: I see a load of o:, one o~, and more o:
22:19:22 <jix> SimonRC: right
22:19:26 <fizzie> Well, it _should_: do you really need characters like VARIATION SELECTOR-42, TETRAGRAM FOR VASTNESS OR WASTING or MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3.
22:19:40 -!- cmeme has joined.
22:19:41 <ihope> Wow.
22:20:41 -!- ihope has quit (SendQ exceeded).
22:20:49 <SimonRC> and the best use of private use are award goes to:   http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/
22:21:34 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:21:37 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
22:21:45 <ihope> Hee hee.
22:21:51 <fizzie> Apple has their Apple logo as the was-it-last-or-what letter in the private use area in OS X -bundled fonts.
22:22:24 <ihope> Well, it is the private use area.
22:22:49 <fizzie> I'm a bit disappointed that Klingon got nixed from Unicode proper.
22:23:05 <SimonRC> aye
22:23:28 <fizzie> Considering what the Interweb is like, I'm sure there'd be much more use for klingon characters than, say, OLD PERSIAN SIGN XSHAAYATHIYA.
22:23:35 <fizzie> (U+103CB.)
22:24:30 -!- cmeme has quit.
22:25:01 -!- cmeme has joined.
22:25:09 <lament> shmeme
22:25:17 <lament> fizzie: i'm not disappointed at all
22:25:21 <lament> star trek is lame
22:25:38 <SimonRC> thwap!  It's "tlhIngan"
22:25:47 <fizzie> Lame, schmame; there's still Real Use (tm) for that stuff.
22:26:06 <lament> no there isn't.
22:26:13 <ihope> "U+E06ETENGWAR DUODECIMAL LEAST SIGNIFICANT DIGIT MARK"
22:26:15 <ihope> Ick?
22:26:25 <lament> hahaha
22:27:24 <ihope> "U+E0BCCIRTH LETTER KHUZDUL RIGHT-POINTING SCHWA"
22:28:18 <ihope> "U+F8FFKLINGON MUMMIFICATION GLYPH"
22:28:26 <ihope> What's a mummification glyph?
22:28:51 <SimonRC> There are 2^21 codepoints in Unicode.  We can afford to allocate gigantic amounts to miscellaneous crap.
22:29:10 <SimonRC> Look at the IPv6 address allocations for another good example.
22:29:59 <SimonRC> Argh!  My eyes!  http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Misc/Eye_Of_The_Argon
22:30:04 <SimonRC> Worst. Writing. Ever.
22:32:07 <ihope> I think I've seen worse.
22:36:57 <_wildhalcyon_> brb
22:37:00 -!- _wildhalcyon_ has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
22:42:51 -!- _wildhalcyon_ has joined.
22:43:31 <_wildhalcyon_> Im back :-D
22:44:24 <ihope> No, brb ends the program right then and there, doesn't it?
22:44:59 <_wildhalcyon_> I thought that was afk
22:45:09 <ihope> Hmm...
22:45:25 <kipple> no, its stfu
22:45:40 <ihope> !help
22:45:43 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
22:45:45 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
22:45:55 * ihope whaps GregorR
22:50:42 <GregorR-W> Ouch
22:50:51 <GregorR-W> ?
22:51:03 <ihope> No Omgrofl? Get with the times, man! ;-)
22:51:36 <GregorR-W> Glass > omgrofl
22:51:42 <ihope> Oh.
22:51:48 * ihope relearns Glass
22:51:58 <GregorR-W> Glass will be better than every language until somebody makes Glass with derivation ^^
22:52:46 <ihope> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Har!"(_o)o.?]}
22:52:49 <EgoBot> Har!
22:53:14 * GregorR-W doesn't even know what tldr means :P
22:53:51 <kipple> heh, I had to look that one up too
22:54:36 <GregorR-W> Too Long Didn't Read?
22:54:38 <GregorR-W> XD
22:55:47 <ihope> No, the "ldr" is short for "loader", and the "t" stands for the same thing as it does in "Windows NT".
22:57:35 <jix> i'm writing an omgrofl interperetr
22:57:51 <GregorR-W> jix: For a decent OS I presume :)
22:57:58 <jix> portable
22:57:59 <jix> ruby written
22:58:03 <GregorR-W> *thumbs up*
22:59:07 <jix> <insert some incompatible buggy z80 clone that was only produced once as a prototype> inline assembler in ruby is portable isn't it?
22:59:59 <ihope> Inline assembler?
23:00:16 <ihope> Why not add inline assembler to Haskell, to? :-P
23:00:28 <jix> well you know ruby inline? it allows to insert code written in other languages into ruby source
23:00:44 <jix> (it has only c and c++ support atm but who cares...)
23:01:03 <jix> oh and my interpreter is going to be interactive!
23:01:05 <ihope> Like the Haskell FFI, slightly.
23:01:32 <jix> you can write lines and the are going to be interpreted as soon as you input them...
23:01:48 <ihope> Like Easy?
23:01:48 <jix> and if you start it with the -r flag you can use readline!
23:01:53 <jix> ihope: like irb
23:02:22 <ihope> Institutional Review Board?
23:02:35 <jix> interactive ruby
23:02:41 <jix> do you have ruby installed?
23:02:48 <ihope> Maybe.
23:02:55 <jix> if you do just start irb from the shell
23:02:59 <jix> and type 10+20
23:04:21 <GregorR-W> Then it'll reformat your hard disk.
23:04:31 <jix> GregorR: Pshhhh....
23:04:34 <GregorR-W> It's the default overload for the + operator.
23:05:47 <ihope> Okay. A Turing machine is now called a No-Grape machine.
23:06:47 <ihope> A Brainhype program with brace nesting level 1 is a One-Grape machine, one with nesting level 2 is a Two-Grape machine, etc.
23:06:56 <ihope> A Brainhype interpreter is a One-Banana machine.
23:07:31 <GregorR-W> I will kill you in your sleep.
23:08:54 <jix> uhm?
23:09:56 <GregorR-W> HI
23:09:58 <GregorR-W> 8-D
23:10:02 <ihope> HELLO!
23:10:07 * ihope hugs GregorR-W
23:14:52 <lament> ihope: can a one-banana machine tell if a one-banana machine will halt?
23:15:03 <ihope> lament: no, but a two-banana machine can.
23:15:25 <ihope> A one-banana machine can tell if *any* machine on the grape hierarchy can halt.
23:15:48 <lament> we need a class that will be able to tell if other stuff in the same class can halt.
23:15:56 <lament> (a superset of TC, of course)
23:16:26 <ihope> Oh, but you don't just want it to tell if other stuff in the same class will halt.
23:16:36 <ihope> You want it to be able to act on that in a Turing-complete manner.
23:16:39 <lament> i guess brainhype CAN do that.
23:17:14 <jix> lament: no there is a proof it can't
23:17:44 <ihope> lament: well, the "Brainhype-complete" class isn't in the Brainhype language.
23:17:56 <ihope> Brainhype defines grape machines.
23:18:06 <ihope> *Any* grape machine.
23:18:26 <lament> jix: um
23:18:29 <lament> jix: it can, by definition
23:18:53 <ihope> lament: for every Brainhype program, there is a *different* one that will solve its Halting problem.
23:19:51 <lament> yes.
23:19:54 <GregorR-W> However, the brainhype program that solves some other Brainhype program's halting problem can be trivially shown to halt.
23:19:59 <GregorR-W> It has no branches or conditionals.
23:20:06 <jix> lament: argh i thought about one brainhype program that is able to solve tha halting problem for all brainhype programs...
23:20:19 <ihope> There's no Brainhype program that can answer the question "will this Brainhype program with this input halt?".
23:20:27 <ihope> For all programs and inputs, that is.
23:20:44 <GregorR-W> Hm, input is a good point.
23:20:47 <lament> Right. but a brainhype interpreter can do that.
23:20:52 <GregorR-W> The Brainhype description doesn't even go into it.
23:20:56 <lament> err
23:20:57 <jix> yes you are all right i was wrong i am stupid ....
23:21:19 <GregorR-W> It's OK jix, you're cool because you've written both FYB and Glass code :P
23:21:30 <lament> if there's no IO, then the brainhype interpreter can check if a brainhype program halts.
23:21:42 <ihope> lament: that just means that a Brainhype interpreter isn't in Brainhype.
23:21:46 <lament> it would just do that by interpreting a _different_ program that adds braces around the old one.
23:21:48 <jix> GregorR-W: i have some simple ORK code on my HD too!
23:22:00 <lament> but if there's IO, then the brainhype interpreter can't do anything
23:22:00 <GregorR-W> jix: Ah, coolio, that makes you even more cool :P
23:22:12 <GregorR-W> By definition, if you've used a language I wrote, you're cool X-P
23:22:15 <jix> GregorR-W: but what if i don't want to be cool?
23:22:21 <GregorR-W> Too late.
23:22:29 <GregorR-W> Your coolness has been irrevocably established.
23:22:48 <GregorR-W> You could feed puppies to blood-sucking mutated babies and still be cool.
23:23:18 <jix> for ext in fyb glass ork; do find / -name "*.$ext" | xargs rm ;done
23:23:28 <lament> it would probably be best to remove all IO from brainhype
23:23:55 <jix> (don't try this at home)
23:24:08 <lindi-> jix: find / -name "*.fyb" -o -name "*.glass" -o -name "*.ork" -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm would do only one pass
23:24:20 <jix> lindi-: but it's longer
23:24:23 <GregorR-W> lol
23:24:45 <jix> and i didn't know about the -o option
23:24:56 <jix> but that's useful...
23:25:11 <lindi-> find / \( -name "*.fyb" -o -name "*.glass" -o -name "*.ork" \) -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm
23:28:09 <GregorR-W> stupid() { for i in $1/*; do if [ -d "$i" ] ; then stupid $i ; elif [ "`echo \"$i\" | grep -F '\.fyb$|\.glass$|\.ork$'`" ] ; then rm -f $i ; fi ; done } stupid /
23:28:48 <GregorR-W> Whoops, missed one set of quotes, that won't work if you have files with spaces:
23:28:53 <GregorR-W> stupid() { for i in $1/*; do if [ -d "$i" ] ; then stupid $i ; elif [ "`echo \"$i\" | grep -F '\.fyb$|\.glass$|\.ork$'`" ] ; then rm -f "$i" ; fi ; done } stupid /
23:29:13 <lindi-> GregorR-W: that will break if filename contains spaces
23:29:34 <GregorR-W> Damn, still missed a " or two :P
23:29:42 <GregorR-W> Pft, well the stupid idea is sound :P
23:29:51 <GregorR-W> And by 'sound' I mean 'ridiculous'
23:36:05 <jix> the negation part in omgrofl is not clear..
23:36:26 <jix> the text sais the nope has to be placed in front of iz the example says it's placed after iz...
23:36:42 <jix> should i allow both?
23:36:45 <lament> Consider lambda calculus extended with a function (will-halt f), that checks whether its argument halts
23:36:51 <lament> and is itself guaranteed to halt
23:36:52 <poiuy_qwert> yeah, a lot of stuff in omgrofl seem unclear
23:37:03 <lament> we can call this language Banana LC
23:37:04 <ihope> lament: how do you guarantee it to halt?
23:37:11 <lament> ihope: magic.
23:37:27 <lament> it's a wholly magical function.
23:37:38 <GregorR-W> Uuuuuuuuuuuse your imaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagiiiiiiiinaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaation.
23:37:40 <lament> Can you write a banana lc interpreter in banana lc? I don't see why not.
23:37:54 <ihope> Is it restricted to those programs that will halt?
23:37:59 <ihope> That's the easy way :-)
23:37:59 <lament> Can you write a brainhype interpreter in banana lc? I don't see why not
23:38:24 <lament> no, it's not restricted to anything
23:38:26 <lament> it's just magical
23:38:31 <ihope> Um...
23:38:46 <ihope> So (\x.xx)(\x.xx) halts in this language?
23:38:51 <lament> no, it doesn't
23:38:52 <jix> ihope: no
23:39:02 <jix> but (will-halt (\x.xx)(\x.xx)) halts
23:39:03 <lament> but (will-halt (\x.xx)(\x.xx)) does, and returns false
23:39:08 <ihope> Ah.
23:39:09 <lament> (some LC equivalent of false)
23:39:35 * ihope thinks
23:40:08 <lament> i don't see any halting-related problems banana lc can't solve.
23:40:18 <ihope> Wait a second...
23:40:43 <jix> (?x. x x)(z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false)) what about this?
23:40:53 <ihope> Ermp, hey!
23:41:14 <ihope> (\x.(\y.y(xx))(\y.y(xx)))(\x.(will-halt x)((\x.xx)(\x.xx))(\x.x))
23:41:24 <jix> this program can't be interpreted in a proper way and this shows that a will halt can't be existent....
23:41:24 <lament> jeez
23:41:32 <lament> :(
23:41:32 <ihope> That's the fixed point of the function (\x.(will-halt x)((\x.xx)(\x.xx))(\x.x)).
23:41:52 <jix> ihope: is it the same thing as my (not so lambdaish) example?
23:41:52 <lament> :(
23:41:56 <lament> :(
23:42:07 <lament> i'm stupid
23:42:09 <ihope> jix: depends on what ? is, I think.
23:42:24 <jix> uhm it's  \
23:42:34 <jix> it's lambda
23:42:41 <ihope> I don't think it's the same, then.
23:42:43 <jix> but it's wrong anyway
23:43:00 <lament> But brainhype is consistent?
23:43:08 <jix> well i wanted to write a program that halts if it doesn't halts and doesn't halts if it halts
23:43:37 <ihope> (z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false))(z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false)) = (if (will-halt (z. (if (will-halt z) (infinity-loop) false))) (infinity-loop) false) = (if true (infinity-loop) false) = infinity-loop
23:44:26 <ihope> lament: yes, because this contradiction depends on moving the "braces" to enclose themselves, or something.
23:44:48 <ihope> Everything in lambda calculus is dynamic, but the braces of Brainhype are static.
23:46:57 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:47:05 <lament> right.
23:47:12 <lament> but what about the brainhype interpreter?
23:47:33 <ihope> The Brainhype interpreter cannot solve its own halting problem because it is not a Brainhype program.
23:47:35 <lament> i guess that means that the brainhype interpreter can't be written in _anything_?
23:47:49 <lament> no matter how "superturing"?
23:48:19 <ihope> No, you just have to make it higher than anything in the grape hierarchy.
23:48:32 <ihope> That will bring it into the banana hierarchy.
23:48:52 <lament> i'm not sure there is a banana hierarchy
23:49:12 <ihope> Oh, lemme think...
23:49:14 <lament> i have a gut feeling that the brainhype interpreter would be equivalent to Banana LC in power
23:49:22 <lament> and, therefore, inconsistent
23:49:23 <ihope> No, it wouldn't.
23:49:44 <ihope> The Brainhype interpreter could only be inconsistent if a Brainhype program were inconsistent, I think.
23:50:27 <ihope> Even though a Brainhype interpreter can solve the Halting problem for anything in the grape hierarchy, it doesn't have to solve that for anything in the banana hierarchy.
23:51:11 <jix> what about: (\x. x x)(\e. (if (will-halt (e e)) (infinity-loop) false))
23:51:36 <ihope> jix: I think that'll work.
23:52:46 <jix> that's a function that halts if it doesn't halt and the other way around
23:53:57 <lament> so a brainhype interpreter interpreter is step 2 in the banana hierarchy?
23:54:03 <jix> so there is no one-banana right?
23:54:13 <jix> lament: no
23:54:23 <lament> jix: why not?
23:54:25 <jix> lament: a brainhype interpeter doesn't even have to be a banana
23:54:38 <jix> lament: because i showed a function that is valid banana but it can't exist
23:54:54 <jix> because it neither halts nor does it not halt
23:54:55 <ihope> It's not a valid banana, is it?
23:55:15 <ihope> Where is it on the banana hierarchy, then?
23:55:29 <lament> jix: banana lc is not on the banana hierarchy, apparently.
23:55:45 <jix> lament: ah
23:55:49 <lament> so it must be renamed to turnip lc :(
23:55:55 <ihope> :-)
23:56:14 <lament> one banana is the brainhype interpreter. Two banana is a program capable of telling whether a brainhype interpreter will halt?
23:56:17 <jix> but you can't have an lc with a will-halt...
23:56:45 <GregorR-W> jix: That's a pretty mean contrived example :P
23:57:14 <ihope> lament: yep.
23:57:21 <ihope> Hey, wait...
23:57:44 <jix> GregorR-W: well adding a will halt to an lc is like saying it can solve EVERY problem... and gödel showed that this can't exist... he did it that way... (a bit different)
23:57:48 <ihope> One banana is a machine that can invoke a Brainhype interpreter.
23:57:54 <lament> right.
23:58:04 <ihope> I thought it was Turing that did that.
23:58:27 <jix> ihope: turing showed that it is impossible to decide wether it halts or not
23:58:36 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("And then, Gregor went home.").
23:58:49 <ihope> Well, isn't this just an extension of that?
23:59:08 <jix> ihope: nargh i can't explain it in english...
23:59:16 <lament> i'm still not sure that there is a banana hierarchy
23:59:43 <ihope> lament: okay. You can have any machine in the banana hierarchy, then prove it doesn't exist.

2006-06-06:

00:00:25 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:00:37 <jix> ihope: goedle showed that if you have a formal system(??) that is strong enough(??) there are things that aren't part of the system.. but the negation of the ting isn't part of the system either...
00:03:11 <jix> there is a pair of some_term_a and some_term_b that has the property that neither some_term_a == some_term_b nor some_term_a != some_term_b can be derived(??) from the axioms 
00:03:25 <ihope> Ah.
00:04:07 <ihope> So there's an f and an x such that neither f(x) nor not(f(x)) can be proven?
00:04:13 <jix> right
00:05:16 <jix> he showed that by showing that by "writing an interpreter" of the system in itself (he only showed that it is possible) and used this to make an expression (to show that it exists) that says "i am wrong!" 
00:05:48 <ihope> Aiee, a Google search for "lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol" turns up results!
00:08:04 <jix> the discussion we had about the grapes and bananas is somehow related to the contents of the book "gödel escher bach" written by Douglas R. Hofstadter.... 
00:08:19 <jix> i didn't finished reading it yet
00:08:44 <jix> so i don't know everything about gödel's proof... 
00:08:54 <jix> but it really is interesting...
00:09:28 <jix> and he is talking about the same problem.. that there is always a next step that is able to solve more problems but you can't have an highest step that can solve everything...
00:12:40 -!- calamari has joined.
00:16:26 <jix> moin calamari 
00:16:33 <calamari> hi jix
00:16:35 <lament> a halt-checker for brainfuck is grape one
00:16:41 <ihope> Yep.
00:16:46 <lament> an interpreter for a halt-checker for brainfuck is grape two?
00:16:50 <ihope> Yep.
00:16:55 <ihope> Well.
00:17:01 <ihope> s/interpreter/halt-checker/
00:17:13 <lament> but what about an interpreter.
00:17:19 <lament> a halt-checker is obviously grape two
00:17:28 <ihope> An interpreter for a halt-checker is simply a halt-checker.
00:18:07 <lament> mm
00:18:35 <jix> ihope: that isn't true for brainfuck
00:18:37 <lament> yes
00:18:45 <lament> an interpreter for grape 0 is grape 0
00:18:51 <lament> a halt-checker for grape 0 is grape 1
00:19:09 <ihope> Yep.
00:19:16 <ihope> Unless, of course, your interpreter can halt-check.
00:19:42 <jix> ihope: let's define interpreter as it doesn't check the program for halting but it just runs it...
00:19:49 <lament> but an interpreter for grape 1 cannot be grape 1
00:19:58 <ihope> lament: why not?
00:19:58 <jix> lament: why?
00:20:01 <lament> oh, can it?
00:20:08 <ihope> Yes, it can.
00:20:41 <jix> the problem with brainhype is it is banana-one right? it can check any grape (but not grape-infinity because that would be a LC + will-halt right?)
00:21:14 <ihope> Oh boy...
00:21:15 <lament> grape infinity would be an infinite program
00:21:17 <lament> we don't look at those
00:21:22 <lament> usually
00:21:28 <ihope> Brainhype is the entire grape hierarchy,
00:21:30 <ihope> s/,/./
00:21:42 <lament> a brainhype _interpreter_ is banana-one
00:21:46 <ihope> Yes.
00:22:17 <jix> i have to re-read the brainhype spec...
00:22:32 <jix> i think i've got something wrong...
00:22:43 <ihope> Every Brainhype program is somewhere in the grape hierarchy, and for every place in the grape hierarchy, there's a Brainhype program that can simulate everything in it.
00:23:13 <lament> and that brainhype program is in the same level of the hierarchy.
00:23:25 <ihope> Yep.
00:23:27 <jix> yes i know
00:23:59 <lament> actually i guess it's more appropriate to call a brainhype interpreter banana-0
00:24:03 <lament> since it doesn't halt-check anything
00:24:19 <ihope> It halt-checks the entire grape hierarchy.
00:24:36 <lament> well, apart from that :)
00:24:58 <ihope> Maybe banana 0 is the entire grape hierarchy.
00:25:09 <lament> a brainfuck interpreter is grape 0, it makes sense to make the brainhype interpreter banana 0
00:25:28 <ihope> Eh, make it so, then.
00:26:48 <jix> maybe we shouldn't call it banana 0 but grape-two-0 ... because we can continue that as long as we want
00:27:31 <ihope> Call that the melon hierarchy.
00:27:45 <ihope> Grape = 1-melon, banana = 2-melon, etc.
00:27:58 <jix> shouldn't we start with 0?
00:28:20 <ihope> You were the one who said banana should be number 2...
00:28:34 <ihope> I guess it can start with 0, then.
00:28:36 <jix> ihope: well i do make mistakes...
00:28:43 <lament> i'm still not convinced there IS a banana hierarchy...
00:29:04 <jix> lament: so you think there is a contradiction in the banana hierarchy?
00:29:09 <lament> and i'm certainly not convinced of existence of a hierarchy beyond the banana one
00:29:23 <lament> what would go in that one?
00:29:40 <jix> i think there is nothing behind the grape-0 
00:29:42 <ihope> Things that could solve the Halting problems for everything in the banana hierarchy.
00:29:46 <jix> in reallaty
00:30:01 <ihope> jix: well, that's because reality is Turing-complete :-)
00:30:24 <jix> yeah
00:31:12 <lament> there's gotta be a contradiction somewhere :)
00:31:31 <lament> otherwise, we have a gigantic transfinite system of hierarchies
00:32:00 <_wildhalcyon_> What if reality has bounded storage?
00:32:01 <jix> once i thought my contradiction could be a valid banana-0 / 1-melon-0 program 
00:32:04 <ihope> The contradiction would be at infinity.
00:32:11 <lament> _wildhalcyon_: it does.
00:32:23 <ihope> There is neither a grape-infinity nor a banana-infinity.
00:32:54 <jix> nor an infinity-melon-infinity
00:33:03 <jix> but i think they would be all the same if they would exist...
00:33:08 <jix> they could all solve all problems
00:33:29 <lament> obviously not
00:33:42 <lament> they can only halt-check things that are lower on the hierarchy
00:33:55 <jix> lament: well they are on the highest place of the hierachy
00:34:37 <lament> wait
00:34:53 <lament> what level is a program that can halt-check an arbitrary Brainfuck program?
00:35:01 <jix> grape-1
00:35:08 <lament> are you sure?
00:35:13 <lament> {program} doesn't count
00:35:26 <jix> lament: there is a brainfuck interpreter in branfuck
00:35:38 <jix> {brainfuck-interpreter-that-reads-source-from-memory}
00:35:42 <lament> ohh
00:35:47 <lament> yes
00:35:58 <lament> however, you can't do that with brainhype
00:36:07 <ihope> ?
00:36:30 <jix> lament: you can write an interpreter for grape-1 in grape-2
00:36:39 <lament> yes
00:36:47 <lament> but waht about banana-0??
00:36:58 * lament gets all confused
00:37:15 <jix> lament: well we just defined it can solve all grape halting problems
00:37:15 <ihope> What about banana-0?
00:37:27 <lament> jix: you can write an interpreter for grape-1 in grape-1
00:37:39 <jix> lament: uhm yes
00:37:58 <jix> nargh i always write interpreter
00:38:04 <jix> when i want to write halt-checker
00:38:17 <lament> this is so confusing
00:38:22 * bsmntbombdood wants to know what all these fruits are
00:38:36 <jix> bsmntbombdood: they are different computational classes
00:38:41 <lament> can we get a better understanding of what banana-0 includes
00:38:49 <ihope> They're hierarchies of computational classes.
00:38:50 <lament> apart from (obviously) a brainhype interpreter
00:38:51 <bsmntbombdood> jix: I figured that
00:39:10 <lament> grape-0 includes all Brainfuck programs
00:39:14 <ihope> Should I write a Wiki article on the fruit hierarchies?
00:39:15 <jix> bsmntbombdood: i like some of them... and i dislike some of them... imho banana tates terrible...
00:39:22 <jix> bsmntbombdood: grape is tasty
00:39:34 <lament> grape-42 includes all brainhype programs with up to 42 levels of braces
00:39:38 <lament> what does banana-0 include?
00:39:47 <jix> bsmntbombdood: melon too but i'm allergic against(??) it
00:39:57 <ihope> Allergic to it?
00:40:13 <jix> ihope: yeah i don't know the right wort to fit between allergic and it...
00:40:30 <jix> the german word there would be "gegen" that translates to "against"
00:40:42 <bsmntbombdood> allergic to it
00:40:47 <lament> is banana-0 a computational class at all? does it include anything other than a brainhype interpreter?
00:41:31 <lament> i mean, brainhype interpreter is the only thing in banana-0 that's not on the grape hierarchy somewhere
00:41:44 <ihope> lament: banana-0 is the set of all programs that can build arbitrary Brainhype programs and run them.
00:41:56 <jix> i'm not sure but wouldn't an instruction & added to brainhype that evaluets a finite piece of code stored on the tape be banana-0?
00:42:13 <ihope> jix: I think that would be contradictory.
00:42:24 <ihope> As long as you could put & on the tape, that is.
00:42:40 <jix> ihope: nargh that evaluates a brainhype program stored on the tape
00:42:44 <jix> so no &
00:42:54 <ihope> Okay. That would be banana-0, then.
00:43:08 <jix> ok i want a banana-n language...
00:43:35 <jix> the piece of code on the tape that is going to be evaluated has to be smaller than the current code? is that banana-n complete?
00:43:47 <ihope> Hmm...
00:43:55 <jix> you can nest as many & as you want but not infinite...
00:44:07 <ihope> I think so.
00:44:09 <lament> why can't you nest &, anyway
00:44:22 <jix> ihope: no...
00:44:23 <lament> in lisp, you can nest eval as much as you like
00:44:35 <lament> eval (or &) does not move you up the hierarchy
00:44:37 <jix> lament: but you may not add a will-halt to lisp
00:44:46 <lament> oh
00:44:47 <jix> that would be a contradiction
00:44:53 <lament> hmm
00:45:07 <lament> so you're saying that the presence of {} must be balanced by lack of eval
00:45:12 <ihope> Yep.
00:45:23 <lament> interesting
00:45:26 <ihope> At least, the lack of an unrestricted eval.
00:45:39 <jix> or a lambda calculus like behavior...
00:46:08 <lament> so banana-0 has one level of &, banana-1 two levels of &
00:46:25 <ihope> ...I think so.
00:46:47 <jix> ihope: but the evaluated code must be smaller than the original would throw it into the grape hierarchy...
00:46:51 <lament> which means the next hierarchy (after the banans) would have arbitrary levels of & and therefore would be inconsistent?
00:46:53 <jix> it would limit the numbers of {}...
00:46:56 <lament> *bananas
00:47:23 <jix> lament: arbitrary but not infinity....
00:47:38 <jix> lament: as long as you don' reach infinity you don't have a problem
00:47:59 <bsmntbombdood> I want a stack-based brainfuck type lang
00:48:07 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: BF-PDA?
00:48:16 <jix> i think really the same thing (applied to formal systems or something like that) was discussed in the book i am reading
00:48:18 <lament> but the level of nesting of & cannot be determined in advance, anyhow
00:48:36 <ihope> I think grape-infinity, banana-infinity, and, in general, n-melon-infinity are all inconsistent.
00:48:44 <ihope> You guys are all confusing me...
00:48:50 <jix> ihope: yes and i think they are all the same
00:50:20 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: kind of like bf-pda
00:50:27 <jix> oh and did i say that Douglas R. Hofstadter started to invent nonsense names for this things too? just to get the reader away from the usual (pre-justiced??) thinking....
00:50:29 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: I will just write my own
00:50:59 <ihope> Grape, banana, and melon all have very complex and meaningful histories. :-P
00:51:37 <lament> seriously
00:51:53 <lament> if banana-0 is brainhype with a & which is not allowed to be nested.
00:51:58 <jix> ihope: but they have NOTHING to do with the things we are talking about
00:52:09 <lament> and banana-1 is brainhype with a & which you can nest only once
00:52:13 <lament> then you're screwed right there
00:52:23 <lament> because you can't tell in advance how many times the & will be nested
00:52:23 <jix> lament: why?
00:52:31 <lament> by looking at the program
00:52:34 <ihope> Banana-0 can't use & for more banana-0, I think.
00:52:48 <ihope> It can use it for any grape, but not for banana-0.
00:52:53 <jix> lament: well you have a nesting count and if the nesting count reaches 2 the instruction & is a NOP...
00:52:54 <lament> ihope: that's what i said.
00:52:59 <lament> jix: hah
00:53:06 <jix> lament: what?
00:53:08 <lament> jix: that feels really dirty. but i guess you're right.
00:53:43 <lament> jix: but it still means the next fruit will be inconsistent
00:53:51 <jix> LOL if someone would stand behind me and read my logs he would think we are all crazy...
00:54:07 <ihope> 2-melon-0 would only be able to use & for bananas.
00:54:30 <lament> ihope: that's also true of bananas
00:54:46 <ihope> Banana-0 can only use & for grapes.
00:54:51 <jix> it would add an instruction / that reads the number of allowed & from the tapes and evaluates code read from the tapes...
00:55:07 <ihope> jix: aiee
00:55:12 <lament> jix: aieee
00:55:21 <jix> -s-s
00:55:25 <jix> we have only one tape right?
00:55:28 <lament> jix: are you SURE that's not equivalent to banana-0 in some way
00:55:39 <ihope> Don't complicate things in your attempts to simplify them...
00:55:49 <jix> lament: no... should i?
00:55:54 <ihope> Anyway, look up "one-banana problem".
00:55:59 <lament> jix: it sounds complex enough that it might be
00:57:05 <lament> i wish i had a banana-0 interpreter to play with
00:57:11 <ihope> :-)
00:58:21 <jix> lament: can't be banana-0 you can write a banana-n interpreter in it
00:58:45 <ihope> You can only write a banana-0 interpreter in banana-0.
00:58:57 <jix> ihope: i'm talking about my 2-melon-0
00:59:03 <lament> you know what.
00:59:04 <_wildhalcyon_> this is a weird convo...
00:59:05 <lament> you're all wrong.
00:59:18 <jix> _wildhalcyon_: go paste it on bash.org
00:59:35 <jix> lament: no...
00:59:54 <ihope> What are we wrong about?
01:00:20 <lament> i dunno
01:00:28 <ihope> Oh...
01:00:59 <_wildhalcyon_> jix, that website is crazy
01:01:24 <lament> i don't like the & instruction
01:01:35 <ihope> Neither do I.
01:01:38 <lament> i want a better banana-0 language
01:01:42 <jix> lament: neither i
01:02:20 <jix> but you get a m+1-melon-0 by taking a m-melon-0 and adding another kind of & instruction that reads the number (n) of the desired m-melon-n from the tape and executes a m-melon-n program from the tape
01:02:42 <jix> thus there is a m-melon-n for every finite but arbitrary high m and n
01:03:26 <jix> and you get a m-melon-n+1 by taking a m-melon-n by allowing to nest the added & kind instruction one level deeper...
01:03:39 <lament> nooooo
01:04:01 <jix> lament: hard to imagine isn't it?
01:04:09 <lament> the problem with this
01:04:16 <lament> er, nevermind
01:04:17 <jix> there is one?
01:04:19 * lament thinks
01:04:40 <lament> i guess there isn't
01:05:39 <lament> it's still ugly
01:05:47 <jix> but what is when we want a interpreter for an arbitrary m-melon-n ? lets say m-melon-n is the same as 0-basket-of-m-melon-n 1-basket-of-0-melon-0 is able to interpret all m-melon-n... is this possible?
01:05:49 <jix> lament: i know...
01:05:58 <lament> i want a better x-melon-y language
01:06:06 <jix> lament: we all want it..
01:06:18 <ihope> Whee.
01:06:24 <ihope> Yes, there can be baskets.
01:07:21 <lament> jix: see, this "basket" thing
01:07:29 <lament> jix: like i said, this just leads to a transfinite hierarchy
01:07:40 <ihope> What does "transfinite" mean?
01:07:56 <lament> jix: you can assign an ordinal number to every class
01:08:14 <jix> lament: i don't understand that.. my english isn't good enough...
01:08:15 <lament> 0 is TC
01:08:28 <lament> 1 in brainhype with 1 level of braces
01:08:37 <lament> 1 is brainhype with 1 level of braces
01:09:16 <ihope> Oddly enough, this is all related to some thing I had once...
01:09:22 <ihope> I think it was called F-TR1.
01:09:23 <lament> omega_0 is 1-melon-0
01:10:11 <lament> omega^omega is, probably, 1-basket-of-0-melon-0
01:10:17 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_numbers
01:11:55 <jix> lament: yes you're right
01:13:15 <jix> ihope: is he?
01:13:25 <ihope> Um, lemme see...
01:14:57 <ihope> Eh, I don't know.
01:15:01 <jix> lament: wait isn't omega^2 1-basket-of-0-melon-0?
01:15:46 <jix> i think omega^omega would give you a contradiction
01:16:06 <jix> because that would be 1......<infinite>....0-baslet-of-0-melon-0
01:16:24 <ihope> How do you know it's infinite and not arbitrary?
01:16:44 <jix> nargh i don't get this anymore...
01:16:48 <jix> i should go to bed instead
01:17:17 <ihope> Me too.
01:17:18 <lament> heh
01:17:25 <jix> it's 2 am here...
01:17:50 <jix> (that's night right?)
01:17:52 <ihope> This discussion started about 2 hours ago.
01:17:58 <jix> i always confuse am and pm...
01:17:58 <ihope> jix: either that or morning :-)
01:18:37 * ihope tries to think of a good mnemonic
01:18:49 <jix> a is after and p is past...
01:18:51 <jix> uhm wait?
01:19:00 <ihope> Well, A comes before P in the alphabet.
01:19:04 <lament> a is "antes"
01:20:57 <lament> or maybe not :)
01:21:07 <ihope> Isn't it?
01:21:42 <lament> it should be
01:23:22 <_wildhalcyon_> anybody have non-constructive criticism on my crawl post?
01:24:08 <jix> like L0l n00b h0w ST00p4T??
01:24:31 <lament> _wildhalcyon_: YOU SMELL!!!
01:24:46 <_wildhalcyon_> well.. slightly more constructive than that
01:24:51 <_wildhalcyon_> lament is on the right track
01:25:12 <lament> _wildhalcyon_: GO TAKE A SHOWER!! no, that's constructive
01:25:24 <_wildhalcyon_> lol, I suppose it is
01:25:40 <bsmntbombdood> Is brainscrambler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainscrambler turing complete?
01:26:23 <jix> it seems to
01:26:41 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: I'm pretty sure it is.
01:26:49 <lament> i like this line: "You must have 3 infinitely (within reason) long stacks"
01:27:06 <bsmntbombdood> would it be turing complete with only one stack?
01:27:12 <ihope> Nope.
01:27:29 <ihope> But with two, it would be.
01:30:36 <jix> HAHA lemonlimeskull: You know you've been chatting too long when you think C:/> is some kind of depressed Arab smiley.
01:30:51 <_wildhalcyon_> lol, that's... sad
01:31:13 <lament> C:/> IS a depressed arab smiley.
01:31:23 <lament> C:\> is command prompt when you're on drive C:
01:31:34 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: are you User:Ihope127 on wikipedia?
01:31:35 <jix> lament: i copy&pasted from bash.org
01:31:38 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: yep.
01:33:41 <_wildhalcyon_> :-D <Polytope> tetris is so unrealistic
01:37:22 <Asaph> yeah when I drop blocks I can't change their direction and position mid-fall
01:37:28 <Asaph> gah.
01:37:30 -!- Asaph has changed nick to Robdgreat.
01:45:12 <jix> tetris rules
01:45:17 <jix> oh and i should go to bed
01:46:14 <_wildhalcyon_> alright, g'night jix
01:50:53 <ihope> Dang, I keep mistyping "define" as "defube".
01:58:01 <jix> oh and i should go to bed
02:03:37 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
02:05:35 <jix> oh and i should go to bed
02:16:31 * ihope contemplates an IRC server with only three channel names, but infinite channels
02:17:15 <ihope> Joining a channel would simply create a new one, but being invited to a channel would put you into the existing one.
02:18:04 <jix> LOL
02:19:54 <_wildhalcyon_> <malaclypse> The general rule on about people on IRC seems to be "Attractive, single, mentally stable: choose two"
02:21:33 <ihope> Alternatively, channels wouldn't have permanent names: you'd join a channel, and if you've seen a channel with that name before, you join it; otherwise, a new channel is created.
02:21:45 <ihope> Inviting someone to a channel would allocate a random channel name.
02:22:10 <ihope> I suppose there would have to be some sort of service to keep you from "losing" channels... call it A.
02:22:39 <jix> ihope: oh and you don't have nicks..
02:22:44 <ihope> Oh my.
02:22:46 <jix> the first person you see is going to be A
02:22:49 <jix> the 2nd person B....
02:23:08 <jix> oh and i should go to bed
02:23:13 <ihope> Eh, maybe A would always be the service bot, but nicks would be given randomly.
02:23:46 <ihope> Well, maybe not randomly.
02:23:55 <jix> nargh gn8
02:23:56 <ihope> It'd start with 0, then go to 1, 2, 3, 4...
02:24:00 <ihope> Good night.
02:24:02 -!- jix has quit ("HAHAHAHAHAHA").
02:24:05 <_wildhalcyon_> I prefer the random idea
02:24:22 <_wildhalcyon_> I think it would be lots of fun to receive a new random name every time
02:24:57 <ihope> Yeah, it would be.
02:25:00 -!- _wildhalcyon_ has changed nick to random.
02:25:27 <random> Yay!
02:25:56 <ihope> Right after you choose a nick, it'd say nick!user@hostmask NICK :Hedral or something.
02:26:41 <random> That would work
02:28:31 <ihope> I regularly tomato eat lampshades...
02:58:20 <GregorR> <malaclypse> The general rule on about people on IRC seems to be "Attractive, single, mentally stable: choose two"
02:58:23 <GregorR> ^ Not true.
02:58:27 <GregorR> It's usually choose zero.
03:02:04 * SimonRC goes
03:03:46 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
03:07:31 <random> good point gregor
03:08:07 <bsmntbombdood> some one have any brainscrambler programs?
03:12:00 <bsmntbombdood> I just wrote an interpreter and I need to test it
03:52:47 -!- rhudson has joined.
03:53:16 <rhudson> Hi All! 
03:54:02 -!- rhudson has quit (Client Quit).
03:54:32 -!- rhudson has joined.
03:54:54 <rhudson> Um Hi all again
03:55:25 -!- rhudson has changed nick to ronhudson.
03:55:45 * ronhudson peers about looking for real people
03:56:03 <ronhudson> Hi EgoBot
03:58:43 <ronhudson> Hmm did I do that?   Hey anybody see my new toy language on the esolangs wiki?
04:00:48 -!- ronhudson has quit ("Xirc - MacOSX").
04:01:03 -!- rhudson has joined.
04:01:24 <rhudson> hello again?
04:01:54 <rhudson> I don't quite have the hang of XIRC yet.. Is anyone out there?
04:02:48 <bsmntbombdood> yes
04:03:01 <rhudson> If you all are talking, I can't hear you?
04:03:22 <bsmntbombdood> well then you're screwed
04:03:30 <rhudson> Oh bsm I see you
04:04:02 <rhudson> Are you interested in computer languages?
04:07:07 <bsmntbombdood> that's why I'm here
04:07:35 <rhudson> Did you design one of your own? or do you use one of the others?
04:08:17 <bsmntbombdood> I've invented a few toy languages
04:08:43 <rhudson> Does my text actually look blue on yellow to you, should I pick better colors?
04:09:12 <rhudson> I am building a small language myself, it's called Tiny.
04:09:12 <Robdgreat> how about default
04:09:50 <rhudson> Now black on white.
04:10:00 <rhudson> Hi Robgreat
04:10:15 <Robdgreat> strange. on my black background everyone else's text shows as white.
04:10:28 <Robdgreat> but yours shows as black (i.e. invisible)
04:11:18 <rhudson> Ok, a light blue visible on both white and black backgrounds.:^)
04:11:47 <rhudson> What languages have you built BSM?
04:12:11 <bsmntbombdood> nothing you have heard of
04:14:24 <rhudson> There's a write up of tiny on the esolang wiki, another guy did a good re-write after
04:14:38 <rhudson> I wrote a terse entry.
04:16:49 <rhudson> It's slow here.
04:17:22 <rhudson> How many of those 22 users are bots?
04:17:50 <bsmntbombdood> one i think
04:18:41 <rhudson> Rob have you written any languages I may have heard of?
04:18:46 <Robdgreat> no way
04:18:53 <Robdgreat> I just idle here because it's entertaining
04:19:49 <rhudson> I wrote tiny just recently, I think I am just about finished and have almost everything working.
04:21:04 <rhudson> so I am trying to get people to comment on it. 
04:21:32 <rhudson> It's about equivalent to a "tiny basic"
04:22:51 <rhudson> Well, I have to travel tomorrow. So I gotta getup early.
04:23:00 <rhudson> night all!  :^)
04:23:07 -!- rhudson has quit ("Xirc - MacOSX").
04:58:05 -!- calamari has joined.
05:15:40 -!- Arrogant has joined.
05:37:58 -!- lindi- has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:50:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:56:00 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:04:37 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:06:20 <lament> ugh, colored fonts
06:06:46 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament.
06:06:54 -!- lament has set channel mode: +c.
06:06:58 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament.
06:07:22 * lament likes exercising his tyrannical op powers
06:08:49 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:09:50 <Arrogant> tyranny
06:10:42 <lament> yep
06:14:59 <random> noooooooooooo
06:15:37 -!- random has changed nick to wildhalcyon.
07:14:31 <Arrogant> Hmm. Single inheritence.
07:15:22 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
07:15:22 <wildhalcyon> uh huh?
07:15:24 <wildhalcyon> what about it?
07:20:47 <lament> it sucks.
07:52:20 -!- sedimin has joined.
07:53:01 <sedimin> hi there
07:59:29 <GregorR> 'lo
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:18:15 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:22:01 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
08:55:57 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
09:34:45 -!- CXI has joined.
11:57:32 -!- sedimin has joined.
11:58:34 -!- tgwizard has joined.
12:07:02 -!- ihope_ has joined.
12:07:13 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
12:23:18 -!- jix has joined.
12:23:25 <sedimin> hey
12:23:26 <sedimin> jix
12:25:46 <jix> moin
12:33:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:46:04 <ihope> Hmm, how do I turn word wrap off in a text box?
13:50:45 <sedimin> in what?
13:51:00 <sedimin> in what framework or gui toolkit?
13:51:03 <ihope> A multiline text box in a web browser.
13:51:07 <ihope> Firefox, on Windows.
13:51:11 <sedimin> in html, so?
13:51:24 <ihope> From within the browser.
13:51:46 <sedimin> and the text box is contained in a page, right?
13:52:34 <ihope> Yep.
13:52:40 <sedimin> hm
13:52:44 <sedimin> I came to this:
13:52:52 <sedimin> Attribute for <TEXTAREA ...>
13:52:53 <sedimin> WRAP = SOFT | HARD | OFF
13:53:21 <sedimin> but it could be done only by editing the html source, I don't think there is easy workaround to do so within the browser
13:58:30 <fizzie> Giving on the address bar an "address" like     javascript:document.getElementById('id_of_the_textarea').setAttribute('wrap', 'off');  (or 'soft', 'hard') might work; apparently for mozilla you need to follow that with   javascript:document.getElementById('...').style.display = 'none'; ...display = '';  to get it to update.
13:58:48 <ihope> !
13:58:51 <EgoBot> Huh?
13:59:31 * ihope slaps EgoBot
14:00:17 <sedimin> hm
14:00:43 <sedimin> that's great idea :)
14:02:33 <fizzie> Actually, if you happen to have the DOM inspector component installed, you can just point-and-click at the box and edit/add the "wrap" attribute there.
14:05:03 <fizzie> That thing is so very fancy; now if they'd just allow drag-n-dropping the DOM nodes in the tree.
14:05:59 <fizzie> Actually, scratch that; seems that you can right-click-cut/copy/paste, which is almost as good.
14:08:59 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:26:35 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:31:48 <SimonRC> foo
14:31:51 <SimonRC> yuk
14:33:50 * SimonRC goes
15:00:06 <sedimin> bbl
15:14:08 <ihope_> ?
15:20:16 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
15:40:41 -!- kipple has joined.
16:20:00 <SimonRC> mmmh
16:24:28 <ihope_> "Watson automatically finds and delivers results. Can your search box do that?"
16:24:31 <ihope_> Um, yes, it can.
16:25:05 <SimonRC> erm, no
16:25:22 <SimonRC> I have to type a query into my search box before it gets results for me
16:34:15 <ihope_> Ah, right.
16:34:39 <ihope_> Well, what's that one Google thing called?
16:34:44 <ihope_> The psychic one?
16:35:13 <poiuy_qwert> psychic google? wher?
16:50:01 <ihope_> Really bad CAPTCHA: encode all the important stuff in ASCII in the least significant bit of each pixel, and display a random image on top.
16:50:21 <ihope_> That way, ONLY automated spambots would get in :-)
16:52:54 <SimonRC> heh
16:54:47 <ihope_> Now, how come when we think "futuristic", we think of flying cars and aliens and artificial intelligence and all that?
16:55:55 <ihope_> Would a guy from the 70's ever guess people would be using slate-blue-and-black laptops with touchpads and DVD drives?
16:56:41 <ihope_> Or these silver ones, even?
16:57:56 <SimonRC> heh
16:59:13 <ihope_> Hey, maybe a guy back then would have thought computers would be like little marbles that we'd just hold next to ourselves to use.
16:59:48 <SimonRC> true
17:00:42 <ihope_> Or maybe that computers would be edible: just eat a computer, and you can do arithmetic with huge numbers and such in your head.
17:01:24 <ihope_> If you want to upgrade, just eat another one.
17:02:08 <ihope_> For parallel computation, buy the really tiny ones and eat a bunch of them.
17:02:27 <SimonRC> :-D
17:05:58 <jix> but i'm allergic to apples!
17:06:08 <jix> (that's true...)
17:06:17 <jix> so i can't eat my computer...
17:06:39 <SimonRC> *groan*
17:14:43 <poiuy_qwert> anyone know perl regex?
17:15:06 <jix> a bit
17:17:37 <lament> eww perl
17:19:33 <jix> i'm only used to the ruby regexp engine...
17:19:56 <poiuy_qwert> im trying to match something like <?:*> where ? is one of yMdhms and * can be anything
17:20:06 <poiuy_qwert> /<([yMdhms])\:([^>]+)>/g
17:20:10 <poiuy_qwert> that is what i have right now
17:20:20 <poiuy_qwert> but its not working correct
17:20:35 <jix> what is the problem?
17:21:07 <poiuy_qwert> well, if i test that regex on "test<d:test> and <y:with multiple> occurences?"
17:21:11 <poiuy_qwert> i get
17:21:18 <lament> has anybody made a good x-melon-x language yet?
17:21:19 <poiuy_qwert> d:test> and <y:with multiple> occurences?
17:21:21 <poiuy_qwert> and d
17:21:25 <lament> x-melon-y
17:22:12 <jix> but you specified [^>] that shouldn't mach >....
17:22:31 <poiuy_qwert> yes, i dont get it either
17:22:38 <SimonRC> lament: "x-melon-x" ??!
17:22:44 <lament> x-melon-y
17:25:10 <SimonRC> lament: "x-melon-Y" ??!
17:25:24 <jix> SimonRC: read the logs
17:25:52 <lament> SimonRC: the language i'm still not sure exists
17:26:12 <SimonRC> oh, yeah
17:30:24 * SimonRC goes
17:47:57 <lament> In order to move beyond the grape hierarchy, we have to be able to halt-check arbitrary pieces of code (given dynamically).
17:48:17 <lament> What if a piece of code has a syntax error?
17:49:24 <lament> I guess to simplify things we could use a language without syntax errors.
17:53:26 <lament> Or assume that a program with a syntax error always halts.
18:04:19 <lament> anyway
18:04:24 <lament> consider Scheme
18:04:59 <lament> and a hierarchy of languages built on top of Scheme, each of which adds a new form of instruction H to the previous one.
18:05:06 <lament> instruction H performs halt-checking.
18:05:23 <lament> Scheme is also known as scheme-0
18:05:48 <lament> scheme-1 adds instruction (H0 <code>) that halt-checks scheme-0
18:06:10 <lament> scheme-2 adds instruction (H1 <code>) that halt-checks scheme-1
18:06:34 <lament> note that this is different from Brainhype because the code is given dynamically.
18:07:06 <lament> but, unlike Brainhype, the code is not written in the same language.
18:09:45 <lament> Then of course we have a language scheme-1-0 with an instruction (Hn <code>) that halt-checks scheme-n for any n
18:14:05 <lament> s/Hn/H0-n
18:14:28 <lament> then of course we have a language scheme-1-1 with an instruction (H1-n <code>) that halt-checks scheme-1-0
18:14:57 <lament> Big question: how does all this relate to brainhype?
18:15:06 <lament> Is scheme-x-y x-melon-y?
18:17:41 <lament> brainhype can typecheck itself (although statically), whereas no "higher scheme" can ever typecheck itself.
18:17:46 <lament> s/typecheck/haltcheck
18:30:11 <jix> yeah but brainhype isn't ONE computational class but it's grape-n...
18:30:27 <jix> and if it is grape-n it can't haltcheck grape-n but only grape-n-1...
18:31:42 <wildhalcyon> Where did the fruit terminology come from?
18:32:23 <jix> dunno
18:32:28 <lament> jix: well, in the specification it simply says that brainhype can halt-check brainhype.
18:32:59 <lament> jix: but of course since the code is given statically, every inner level being halt-checked has fewer braces so belongs lower down on the grape hierarchy.
18:33:27 <lament> yeah, i guess it makes sense that scheme-x-y is x-melon-y
18:36:22 <lament> now, instead of stupid names like H1-n
18:36:28 <lament> we just use ordinal numbers.
18:36:43 <lament> H0, H1, .... Homega, etc
18:37:44 <lament> I assume 1-melon-0 is Homega+1
18:38:16 <lament> i guess that fully solves this problem :)
18:38:36 <lament> (by reducing it to a previously solved problem of "what the hell are ordinal numbers")
18:49:16 -!- sedimin has joined.
18:49:25 <sedimin> omg
18:49:37 <kipple> rofl
18:51:27 <kipple> sedimin: your new language has become quite popular lately :)
18:52:04 <sedimin> oh really? :)
18:52:05 <sedimin> finally i did something good :)
18:55:04 <lament> Anybody feels like writing a brainhype interpreter in scheme-omega? should be trivial
18:55:32 <lament> (and, of course, impossible in any lower scheme)
18:57:03 <lament> actually
18:57:16 <lament> you never need Homega to interpret a brainhype program
18:59:14 <lament> sedimin: help!!!
19:00:12 <lament> I thought that scheme-X (for ordinal X) is the entire hierarchy of halt-checking classes
19:00:18 <lament> but
19:00:55 <lament> to halt-check brainhype, you need a language less powerful than scheme-omega, but more powerful than scheme-N for any natural N
19:02:23 <lament> oh, i got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:02:38 <lament> weeeeeeeeeee
19:02:42 <lament> omega is a limit ordinal
19:03:05 <lament> scheme-X for a limit ordinal X does NOT add a new instruction
19:03:23 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_ordinal
19:03:56 <lament> there is no H-omega
19:04:11 <lament> scheme-omega simply incorporates instructions Hn for any natural n
19:04:34 <lament> however, scheme-omega+1 incorporates an instruction Homega+1 which can halt-check scheme-omega
19:10:17 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
19:10:34 <sedimin_> lament - what was it?
19:28:21 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:41:21 -!- sedimin_ has changed nick to sedimin.
19:41:35 -!- sedimin has left (?).
19:41:38 -!- sedimin has joined.
19:42:26 -!- sedimin has left (?).
19:43:07 -!- sedimin has joined.
19:43:28 <sedimin> lament, you had some problem?
19:44:31 <sedimin>  /msg nickserv identify
19:44:35 <sedimin> oops
20:05:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:12:42 -!- ihope has joined.
20:12:49 <ihope> Ugh, web client.
20:15:08 <bsmntbombdood> why not just use a real client
20:22:31 <ihope> I don't want to download anything.
20:22:58 <ihope> This is a Windows machine. Do they come with any programs other than telnet that are usable as IRC clients?
20:23:19 <bsmntbombdood> windows doesn't come with anything
20:23:32 <bsmntbombdood> unless you want to play solitaire
20:24:16 <ihope> It comes with telnet.
20:24:23 <ihope> That's usable as an IRC client.
20:25:28 <bsmntbombdood> only if you want to learn the protocol
20:25:31 <ihope> I did.
20:25:42 <fizzie> There's not much to learn if you just want to chat.
20:26:07 <ihope> True, but the problem with Windows telnet is that it doesn't seem to support line buffering.
20:26:23 <ihope> It sends each character right away, so there's no backspace.
20:26:34 <fizzie> Don't make mistakes, then.
20:26:37 <bsmntbombdood> I've noticed that before, it's extremley annoying
20:26:44 <ihope> Meh.
20:26:54 <bsmntbombdood> I mean on the server end
20:27:02 <fizzie> Many Windows machines come with MS Office; I guess that's usable as an IRC client if you just write some visual-basic-for-applications or what's-it-called to do it.
20:27:32 <ihope> Eew.
20:28:07 -!- _ihope has joined.
20:28:11 -!- ihope has quit ("Today is a good day to chat.").
20:28:23 <_ihope> Hmm, this is odd.
20:28:41 <_ihope> Freenode seems to like telnet better than actual IRC client.
20:28:49 <_ihope> Clients, even.
20:29:09 <_ihope> If I choose a bad nick, it tells me.
20:29:33 <_ihope> And once I send the NICK and USER commands, it pops right into the fully functional whatever.
20:29:54 <_ihope> No wating for the ident to fail.
20:38:25 <sedimin> f
20:38:31 <sedimin> I use Opera for IRC
20:38:44 <sedimin> cos i'm lazy to install Miranda plugin
20:55:47 -!- _ihope has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:17:18 -!- calamari has joined.
21:18:32 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:44:54 -!- cp has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:49:55 -!- cp has joined.
23:05:39 <lament> ihope_: am i not a genius?
23:15:54 <poiuy_qwert> what in your opinion is the best language to write a dos window interpreter?
23:22:40 <calamari> poiuy_qwert: the other dos emulators don't work for ya? :)
23:22:51 <poiuy_qwert> ?
23:23:04 <calamari> ??
23:23:14 <poiuy_qwert> i dont know what you are talking aobut
23:23:23 <calamari> <poiuy_qwert> what in your opinion is the best language to write a dos window interpreter?
23:23:32 <poiuy_qwert> yes
23:23:49 <poiuy_qwert> and i dont know what "other dos emulators" is
23:24:12 <calamari> hmm.. well what is a "dos window interpreter"? maybe I misunderstand
23:24:38 <poiuy_qwert> like an interpreter that is run in a dos like window. something like Turbo Pascal
23:25:34 <calamari> well, if you can write it in ansi c, then it would also be portable to *nix
23:26:14 <poiuy_qwert> and ansi c is good for writing interpreters?
23:26:27 <fizzie> C and the curses API is a classic; there's pdcurses to run it on windows, and all *nix-alikes have it. (Isn't it part of POSIX anyway?)
23:26:37 <calamari> or are you trying to get full screen, colors, menus, mouse, etc?
23:26:58 <poiuy_qwert> curses is what i mean
23:27:07 <poiuy_qwert> i hmm i read curses is for python too
23:27:30 <calamari> poiuy_qwert: python is also a good choice, didn't know that ran in plain dos tho
23:27:58 <poiuy_qwert> yeah im running it on windows now
23:28:06 <fizzie> I would assume quite a lot of environments have curses bindings. Perl certainly does, and at least one Scheme interpreter. (Or was it a compiler?)
23:28:15 <calamari> if you have python available, I'd choose that over ansi c..
23:28:48 <jix> fizzie: ruby has curses bindings
23:29:07 <calamari> you lose a little speed, but it is a better lang overall
23:29:15 <poiuy_qwert> too bad i dont have cureses and cant find it for python
23:29:22 * calamari needs to get a ruby book
23:29:42 <jix> calamari: http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/ << this is the (free) 1st edition
23:29:46 * jix has the 2nd one at ome
23:30:03 <fizzie> http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/
23:30:06 <calamari> jix: what is the style of the book.. reference?
23:30:08 <fizzie> "Curses for Windows for Python"
23:30:18 <jix> calamari: tutorial + reference
23:30:19 * calamari dislikes chatty books.. I like to look things up 
23:30:24 <calamari> jix: cool
23:30:29 <jix> calamari: skip the first parts
23:31:10 <poiuy_qwert> (fizzie) nice, ty
23:31:11 <jix> i think the first 2 or 3 chapters are really boring because they explain to much obvious things... but the other part is really great
23:39:57 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:42:58 <lament> poiuy_qwert: why the hell are you using ods?
23:43:00 <lament> dos
23:43:33 <poiuy_qwert> becuase if the language only has simple imput and output, why use something else?
23:43:46 <jix> i think he isn't using plain dos
23:44:01 <jix> because he said a dos window interpreter....
23:44:10 <jix> and in plain dos you don't have a dos window...
23:44:11 <poiuy_qwert> well cureses seems to give a special window so its not really dos
23:44:30 <jix> poiuy_qwert: i think you confuse the term dos with something else...
23:44:30 <lament> poiuy_qwert: because liunx is nice.
23:44:35 <lament> linux
23:44:36 <jix> dos is disk operating system...
23:44:43 <lament> and yes, i don't think dos means what you think it menas
23:44:44 <lament> *means
23:44:51 <poiuy_qwert> maybe im confusing it with cmd prompt :x
23:44:56 <jix> poiuy_qwert: right!
23:45:15 <poiuy_qwert> i just group dos and cmd as dos
23:45:24 <poiuy_qwert> i guess thats bad
23:45:30 <jix> poiuy_qwert: but dos allows you to use VGA graphics!
23:45:38 <poiuy_qwert> i see
23:48:44 <calamari> you can do anything with dos.. really :)  even if that involves starting linux with loadlin ;)
23:50:23 <calamari> I use dos networking progs on my laptop to connect to my main system via ssh.. way faster than loading linux or windows to do the same thing.  and, I can turn off the computer whenever I want to
23:54:27 <poiuy_qwert> :)
23:55:35 <jix> isn't there a SSH-OS ... has support for A LOT of network cards and maybe a WIFI scanner and a build in ssh client... would be cool
23:55:54 <jix> put it on a floppy or USB stick and access your computer from everywhere...

2006-06-07:

00:01:11 <lament> jix: help me with scheme-omega!
00:03:00 <wildhalcyon> Is there an m-pineapple?
00:03:36 <wildhalcyon> I know someone had mentioned melon, and I think orange, earlier, but not pineapple
00:04:07 <lament> there will be a pineapple if you help me with scheme-omega
00:04:25 <calamari> jix: that would be cool
00:07:28 <wildhalcyon> lament: I don't know enough about scheme-omega to help. I'm not good with cardinality
00:07:44 <wildhalcyon> jix: yes, that would be cool.
00:07:50 <lament> this is not really a cardinality question
00:09:26 <lament> the question is: is there any difference between providing and not provinding a Homega instruction in scheme-omega?
00:10:05 <lament> scheme-omega already has instructions Hn for all natural numbers n
00:10:28 <lament> therefore it can halt-check any scheme-n
00:10:49 <lament> but it has to know in advance which Hn to choose
00:11:40 <lament> H-omega would be a single instruction capable of halt-checking ANY scheme-n
00:12:09 <jix> well this way the program is always a valid scheme-n progra
00:12:20 <jix> so it isn't something better than that scheme-n
00:12:21 <lament> no
00:12:26 <jix> ah
00:12:28 <lament> you can generate the instruction on the fly
00:12:30 <lament> :)
00:12:33 <jix> ah ok
00:12:45 <lament> i'm sure you can do something like that in Scheme
00:14:59 <lament> i thought originally that you would need the Homega instruction
00:15:07 <lament> but really, you don't need Homega to interpret Brainhype
00:15:32 <lament> you just count how many levels of braces the brainhype program has
00:15:39 <lament> and use the corresponding Hn
00:17:19 <lament> (to make this easier, the 'n' should be an argument to H)
00:17:32 <lament> (so the H instruction would be (H <ordinal> <code>))
00:20:04 <lament> errrrrrrrrrrr
00:20:05 <lament> NO
00:20:24 <wildhalcyon> lol
00:20:26 <wildhalcyon> more lament
00:20:34 <wildhalcyon> ?
00:20:40 <wildhalcyon> s/more/poor/
00:20:48 <wildhalcyon> Im not sure how that happened. My fingers have a mind of their own
00:20:59 <lament> it can't be an argument
00:22:03 <lament> can't be generated on the fly either
00:25:20 * lament cries
00:25:40 <lament> (yes it can, and yes it can)
00:26:17 <lament> okay
00:26:26 <lament> here's an actual question as opposed to a rant.
00:28:21 <lament> nevermind
00:28:24 <lament> here's some more ranting.
00:29:04 <lament> I can make a program that simply runs (Hn '()) in an infinite loop.
00:29:09 <lament> increasing Hn every time.
00:30:15 <lament> Obviously this program is not scheme-n for any natural n
00:30:28 <lament> however it CAN be halt-checked with Homega
00:30:49 <lament> Correct?
00:32:21 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
00:35:46 * wildhalcyon has no idea
00:46:02 <lament> i think the only sane answer to that question is "no"
00:46:20 <lament> it's a scheme-omega program
01:10:29 <SimonRC> ihope_: if you set up dgamelaunch on a box you own, you could use that to launch an publicly-accessible locked-down IRC client of some kind.
01:12:40 <jix> http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/omgrofl/ << not sure wether it works or not
01:17:13 <SimonRC> jix: what is it?
01:17:19 <jix> OMGROFL!
01:17:21 <jix> interpreter
01:18:12 <wildhalcyon> yay!
01:43:00 <bsmntbombdood> Does anyone have any brainscrambler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainscrambler) programs?
01:43:11 <bsmntbombdood> I just wrote an interpreter and I need to test it
02:01:12 <bsmntbombdood> Come on people
02:27:36 <GregorR> I think that amounts to "no, we don't"
02:31:16 <ihope_> You can translate a BF program into a Brainscrambler program easily enough.
02:35:46 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Bedtime").
03:02:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
03:02:25 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:03:30 -!- jix has joined.
03:04:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
03:05:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit).
03:06:02 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
03:10:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit).
03:14:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
03:25:25 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
04:08:18 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
05:48:39 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
06:39:46 -!- kipple has joined.
06:54:28 -!- sedimin has joined.
07:00:25 <sedimin> morning!
07:00:36 <kipple> morning
07:06:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to foobarbaz.
07:14:38 -!- foobarbaz has quit (Client Quit).
07:15:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
07:15:16 <bsmntbombdood> it's night, man
07:17:03 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
07:22:30 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
07:32:24 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:32:37 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:18:49 -!- lindi- has joined.
08:53:53 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
08:54:39 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
08:54:47 <sedimin_> damn
08:55:41 <sedimin_> somebody here ?
08:56:02 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
08:57:36 <sedimin_> I have a little problem with esolang wiki - In every browser I have installed I tried to edit large page (http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants), with fixed TOC, but the server always closes connection when I try to save changes....
08:58:15 <sedimin_> and I just can't get to save the edited page or preview it
08:58:48 <bsmntbombdood> dunno
08:59:19 <sedimin_> never mind :)
09:00:08 <bsmntbombdood> how come you are using esoteric.voxelperfect.net instead of esolangs.org?
09:00:37 <sedimin_> I always use it
09:01:23 <sedimin_> when I first came there through google, and I bookmarked it, it was always this link
09:02:44 <bsmntbombdood> I would see if it works on the other server
09:03:16 <bsmntbombdood> whoops, they are the same :)
09:03:19 <sedimin_> hm, now I see that wikipedia links to esolangs.org
09:03:36 <sedimin_> It may be domain redirect?
09:03:57 <bsmntbombdood> they resolve to the same ip addr
09:04:31 <sedimin_> y
09:04:32 <bsmntbombdood> but I am going to bed
09:04:54 <sedimin_> cya
09:05:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
09:25:00 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:26:42 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
10:32:13 -!- tgwizard has joined.
12:17:38 -!- lindi- has quit ("..").
12:44:11 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
13:22:07 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:00:38 <SimonRC> mmf
14:01:05 * SimonRC curses the previous owners of this SGI workstation.
14:01:37 <SimonRC> It is set to boot from disk, but there are no disks in it.
14:02:43 <SimonRC> Fortunately, it is not an IBM PC (by definition), so it has a boot prompt (with flashy graphics and a twangy startup sound), with which I am supposed to be a ble to get it to netboot.
14:05:04 <SimonRC> eklisha (my PC) is acting correctly as a DHCP server, but I will have to RTFM for tlwpenst (the SGI), to get it to retrieve the correct file from elkisha.
14:05:29 <SimonRC> well, you can hardly expect support for things found in the junk pile round the back of the engineering dept.
14:05:40 * SimonRC goes
14:26:43 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:26:52 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
14:29:57 <sedimin_> why the smallest bugs take the most time to find and fix?
14:44:15 <ihope> The same reason smaller "real" bugs are harder to see than larger ones?
15:28:59 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
15:31:54 -!- jix has joined.
16:14:42 -!- kipple has joined.
16:47:12 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
16:51:30 * SimonRC has an SGI workstation, for those who missed the news
16:51:51 <GregorR-W> Livin' in the FUTURE
16:52:23 <SimonRC> it's from 1999
16:52:35 <ihope> Woot, it looks like the regex /(s?[b-df-hj-np-tv-z]?[rlwy]?[aeiouy]{1,2}[b-df-hj-np-tv-z]{0,3})*/ matches English-sounding words :-)
16:52:40 <SimonRC> I got it from the junk pile behind the engineering dept
16:53:06 <SimonRC> It lacks a disk, and netbooting is turning out to be tricky
16:53:52 <SimonRC> A serial cable is high on the to-buy list
16:54:16 <GregorR-W> ihope: Qliackx
16:54:32 <ihope> Oops, forgot about the QU rule.
16:54:40 <ihope> Um...
16:54:42 <GregorR-W> Yeah, that's the only problem with that word.'
16:54:51 <ihope> Ack.
16:55:28 <SimonRC> "sxyyyzzz"
16:55:46 <ihope> /(s?[b-df-hj-np(qu)r-tv-z]?[rlwy]?[aeiouy]{1,2}[b-df-hj-np(qu)r-tv-z]{0,3})*/?
16:56:16 <SimonRC> squyyyyyy
16:56:31 <GregorR-W> Oh, I didn't notice the s at the beginning
16:56:35 <SimonRC> hehehe
16:56:52 <GregorR-W> Szlyebquj
16:56:57 <SimonRC> oh, wait, there's a * at the end...
16:57:01 <SimonRC> yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
16:57:04 <GregorR-W> OH, AWESOME 8-D
16:57:27 <GregorR-W> Szlyebqujdriibdf
16:57:32 <GregorR-W> That word sounds SO ENGLISH
16:57:37 <SimonRC> your regex needs some work,ihope
16:57:50 <ihope> Heh.
16:58:15 <ihope> At least I can now tell you how many syllables the word "English" has.
16:58:19 <SimonRC> japanese is easier
16:58:23 <ihope> Yep.
16:58:43 <GregorR-W> ihope: ... yeah, because the word English has a really ambiguous number of syllables.
16:58:45 <SimonRC> challange:  make one for Ithkuil.
16:58:51 <ihope> Maybe-consonant, vowel, maybe-vowel, maybe-'n'?
16:59:00 <SimonRC> should be easier than english, as it has a formal definition
16:59:11 <ihope> Oh, wait, a syllable can have an 'e' on the end!
16:59:17 <SimonRC> I mean Ithkuil
16:59:41 <GregorR-W> Now here's an ambiguously-syllabic word: Male/mail.  Pronounced the same, but 'male' clearly has one syllable whereas 'mail' clearly has two :P
17:05:40 -!- cp has quit ("Lost terminal").
17:06:05 * ihope wonders why the Latin alphabet or whatever it's called has two ways to write every letter
17:06:35 <GregorR-W> Three ways to write 'k'
17:07:12 <ihope> PeoPlE wiLl StIll uNDeRstAnD yOu jusT FiNe If yoU mIx AnD MatCH, bUt thErE'S STilL a CoRrecT Way tO Do ThiNGs.
17:07:21 <GregorR-W> Ohhhhhhh
17:07:36 <GregorR-W> I thought you were referring to c-k-q, ee-y, oo-w, ec.
17:07:38 <GregorR-W> *etc
17:08:49 * ihope wants a language with three such cases
17:18:09 <SimonRC> see some forms of english from past times
17:18:17 <SimonRC> there were effectively 3 cases
17:18:27 <SimonRC> well, latin, not english
17:19:20 <SimonRC> there was a case you used for the first leter of chapter, a case for the first leter of all other verses, and a case for body of the text
17:19:48 <SimonRC> (Well, what else would one be writing other than the Bible?)
17:19:59 <ihope> Verses, eh?
17:20:29 <ihope> By the way, does Unicode have a way to represent a lowercase letter 's' with an inverted circumflex accent over it?
17:20:41 <ihope> Or, more specifically, UTF-8.
17:24:37 <GregorR-W> I'll say, "probably"
17:33:07 <ihope> U0015D is close...
17:33:53 <ihope> � <- but not quite
17:33:54 <SimonRC> 0145
17:34:17 <SimonRC> Å¡
17:34:23 <ihope> Ah! Thanks!
17:35:23 <fizzie> 0145? My code charts say it's U+0161, File f = new File(args[0]);
17:35:23 <fizzie> System.out.println(f.getParentFile());
17:35:28 <fizzie> Ghhbh.
17:35:35 <fizzie> Nice miscopypaste.
17:36:15 <SimonRC> oops
17:36:20 <SimonRC> it is 0161
17:36:36 <ihope> Yeah, but 0145 does say "caron", which is what I needed.
17:37:15 <SimonRC> the keystroke is alt+0145 in windows
17:37:33 <fizzie> U+0145 is Å…, "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH CEDILLA".
17:37:34 <ihope> So now I can say what I wanted to say: "So cuon er so ailuro eu druki. Cuon ride še slušir misotém ailurei. So ailuro e arašó rizuec."
17:37:52 <ihope> WHY IS UNICODE SO LOUD?
17:38:12 <fizzie> It sounds more absurd when spoken OUT LOUD.
18:02:56 -!- CXI has joined.
18:12:13 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Updating ChatZilla").
18:14:33 <SimonRC> seen on slashdot:  "Finding political speech on the internet is like finding poop in the toilet: it's easy to find, but you don't want to see it."
18:15:05 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
18:21:29 <kipple> haha. very good
18:32:12 * SimonRC gets an email from his mother:  http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/tmp/flags.txt
18:33:23 <GregorR-W> SimonRC: All American drivers in Britain will be required to display three such flags :P
18:39:38 <ihope> So how do words pop between languages?
18:40:46 <GregorR-W> <English guy> Hey, I don't have a word for that thing you give a prospective employer!  <French guy> L' résumée?  <English guy> Oui, oui!
18:41:10 <ihope> :-)
18:41:26 <ihope> Yep, that'd work.
19:07:41 <ihope> Well, I think it's easy enough to add infinite memory to BackFlip.
19:08:21 <ihope> % goes up (which is not the same as north) and ~ goes down (not to be confused with south)
19:09:00 <ihope> Going "up" lands you at a copy of the program, except with ~ and % swapped, and ~ does the same thing.
19:09:30 <ihope> That is, all "levels" of the program are the same, except that "odd" levels have ~ and % swapped.
19:32:13 * ihope wishes all the software developers were forced to use really slow computers for testing
19:32:37 <GregorR-W> You are a very strange person.
19:32:57 <ihope> And by "really slow", I mean "having a processor speed measurable in kilohertz"
19:33:51 <ihope> And by that, I don't mean "hey, look, I get the 4194304kHz processor!" I mean 20kHz.
19:34:39 <ihope> Nah, that's too harsh. Let's give 'em all 4MHz.
19:36:51 -!- Arrogant has joined.
19:43:49 <lament> phew
19:44:03 <lament> thanks to whoever put that wikipedia link on the banana scheme page
19:47:13 <ihope> Don't tell me Wikipedia has something on the grape and banana hierarchies.
19:47:32 <GregorR-W> Not by those names
19:48:06 <lament> ihope: it does, too
19:48:18 <lament> anyway http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Banana_Scheme
19:48:36 <ihope> Whew.
19:48:46 <lament> but that link added by Orjan pretty much explains everything (i assume. it's too complicated to actually read :) )
19:51:47 <lament> - added Brainhype to the banana scheme page
19:52:42 <lament> now somebody should write a brainhype interpreter
19:55:04 <ihope> What language should it be written in?
19:55:23 <GregorR-W> ihope: German.
19:56:27 <lament> ihope: Scheme-Omega
19:57:16 <lament> i.e. you're allowed to use (H N <code>) for any finite N
19:59:17 <kipple> '
19:59:26 <lament> "
19:59:48 <ihope> '"
20:01:20 <ihope> Next is ^], but I don't feel like typing that.
20:06:07 -!- ihope_ has joined.
20:06:13 -!- ihope has left (?).
20:06:34 <ihope_> So that'd be 
20:08:10 <kipple> oops. I see I typed on the wrong screen :)
20:08:24 <ihope_> :-)
20:09:39 <kipple> nice to see someone got something "meaningful" out of it though ;)
20:10:31 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ih.
20:10:41 <ih> Hmm...
20:10:50 -!- ih has changed nick to ihope_.
20:11:14 <ihope_> Better.
20:13:33 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
20:13:45 <sedimin_> evening guys
20:13:52 -!- sedimin_ has changed nick to sedimin.
20:13:52 <GregorR-W> 'lo sedimin_
20:14:01 <kipple> cheerio
20:14:09 <GregorR-W> 'lo sedimin :P
20:14:12 <sedimin> gotta study for the computer architecture exam ;)
20:16:26 <sedimin> how are things going btw? everybody at work?
20:16:44 <kipple> not in my timezone...
20:17:29 <sedimin> neither here, but the american guys may be
20:17:44 <lament> i'm at work
20:18:34 <GregorR-W> <-- note the tag
20:18:50 <lament> W?
20:18:58 <GregorR-W> For 'work' :P
20:19:50 <sedimin> mystic tag resolved? :)
20:20:32 <GregorR-W> I thought it was pretty obvious :P
20:20:53 <sedimin> well, what is then the tag for SimonRC? :)
20:21:04 <sedimin> I don't think it's the Release Candidate
20:21:05 <lament> i thought W was for Wacation.
20:21:28 <sedimin> or maybe @WC.. i know folks who take ICQ to the toilet
20:22:00 <kipple> GregorRead-Writable
20:22:23 <jix> sedimin: http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/omgrofl/
20:22:57 <sedimin> awesome
20:23:44 <sedimin> but I don't speak ruby so it's like korean to me
20:24:29 <jix> in interactive mode it has tab completion
20:24:34 <jix> (if you have readline support installed)
20:27:40 <ihope_> So what's the L in "GregorR-L"?
20:27:53 <jix> looser?
20:28:07 <ihope_> And I'm not spewing gibberish whenever I use the backspace key, am I?
20:28:30 <jix> ihope_: huh?
20:28:46 <sedimin> we should decide about official extension for omgrofl code :P
20:29:11 <jix> .omgrofllolwtfloooolpwndlolroflmao
20:29:34 <ihope_> Does omgrofl already have a "pwnd" command?
20:29:38 <sedimin> that's right
20:29:40 <ihope_> That is, pwn?
20:29:45 <sedimin> nope
20:29:46 <jix> one could use that to check for EOF
20:30:01 <sedimin> wtf lol iz pwnd
20:30:08 <sedimin> will check for eof?
20:30:16 <kipple> yeah, it should have some file operations
20:30:35 <jix> pwn x will call file operation x
20:30:52 <jix> or should it be: x iz pwnd
20:30:58 <ihope_> File operations? Sheesh... you might as well turn it into a high-level language :-P
20:31:17 <kipple> why not? not all esolangs needs to be excessively minimalistic
20:31:26 <jix> well do whatever you want... i'll implement it..
20:31:27 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
20:31:46 <ihope_> I like programming languages that are to one extreme or the other in terms of I/O capability.
20:31:47 <jix> oh and my interpreter gives MEANINGFULL error msgs...
20:32:15 <jix> i think that is something special about esolang interpreters...
20:32:30 <sedimin_> be more clear?
20:32:32 <ihope_> :-)
20:33:02 <jix> if there is a syntax error it tells you the line and what is allowed in that place....
20:33:14 <sedimin_> yes, I noticed
20:33:29 <jix> "Syntax Error on line 1: brb without matching rtfm or wtf"
20:33:37 <sedimin_> that's really better than just crashing or hogging up memory/cpu
20:33:43 <jix> Syntax Error on line 2: tldr placed outside of a rtfm loop
20:33:47 <ihope_> :-)
20:33:53 <sedimin_> I think of creating Omgrofl IDE
20:34:05 <ihope_> Shouldn't that be "an rtfm loop"?
20:34:12 <sedimin_> why an?
20:34:17 <sedimin_> rtfm begins with a
20:34:19 <sedimin_> r*
20:34:48 <jix> whoops there is a bug in the interpreter..
20:34:54 <ihope_> Yes, but you're not saying the word "rtfm"; you're saying the letters.
20:35:00 <kipple> it's how you pronounce it that counts, and then it starts with a vowel. so it should be "an"
20:35:05 <jix> ihope_: i say read the fucking manual
20:35:12 <ihope_> Bingo.
20:35:22 <jix> and that starts with R
20:36:11 <jix> wtf lol iz
20:36:12 <jix> omgrofl.rb:195: undefined method `size' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
20:36:12 <jix>         from omgrofl.rb:171
20:36:13 <jix> :(
20:36:41 <ihope_> :brown.freenode.net 421 ihope_ nknown command
20:36:47 -!- sedimin__ has joined.
20:36:47 <ihope_> Um, yeah.
20:36:53 <sedimin__> crappy connection
20:38:51 <jix> argh there are some bugs in the interpreter
20:38:56 <jix> i really should have tested it...
20:38:59 <ihope_> Hee hee, I turned my terminal thingy green.
20:39:10 <jix> i'm going to fix them tomorrow or.. uhm....
20:39:28 -!- sedimin____ has joined.
20:39:33 <sedimin____> ...i see that bug
20:40:10 <ihope_> Error: too many sedimins. Please GHOST some, then try again.
20:41:34 <sedimin____> foreach (dude d in dudes)
20:41:34 <sedimin____> {
20:41:35 <sedimin____>  if(d.Name.Contains("sedimin") && d!=me)
20:41:35 <sedimin____>   kick(d);
20:41:35 <sedimin____> }
20:43:16 <ihope_> I'd give you a Haskell expression that does that, but my arrow keys don't work, and that makes it Abosulutely Out of the Question.
20:43:51 <SimonRC> hehehe:   http://www.panexa.com/   "Panexa.  Ask your doctor for a reason to take it."
20:43:56 <sedimin____> but i like the sharp
20:44:12 <ihope_> The what?
20:44:16 <sedimin____> C#
20:44:38 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
20:46:04 <sedimin____> did you read this somewhere? :) Imagine if the State of the Union address were hacked because the TV
20:46:04 <sedimin____> station decided to save money by using Linux? Imagine if a
20:46:04 <sedimin____> stealth-bomber crashed because it's software was written by anonymous
20:46:04 <sedimin____> Chinese or European hackers....
20:46:04 <sedimin____>  
20:46:05 <sedimin____> And guess what software Osama Bin Laden uses on his laptop?
20:48:14 <ihope_> So if I PING ihope :clarke.freenode.net, will my server actually deliver the PING to clarke, which will have a PONG delivered to me?
20:48:54 <jix> ihope_: you are using plain telnet?
20:49:13 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:49:15 <ihope_> More or less.
20:49:23 <sedimin____> yea, now the sedimins are dying
20:49:31 -!- sedimin____ has changed nick to sedimin.
20:49:35 <ihope_> "Do not taunt PANEXA."
20:49:39 <ihope_> Nice one.
20:52:50 <jix> test [45m test
20:53:02 <jix> ihope_: hm?
20:53:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:53:14 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:53:50 <ihope_> Do not taunt PANEXA...
20:54:01 <GregorR-W> sediminWhat the FUCK?!
20:54:07 <sedimin> ?
20:54:17 <GregorR-W> Where did you get that particular line of idiocy from?
20:54:26 <sedimin> as I said. the sedimins are disconnecting
20:54:39 <GregorR-W> Nonono, "Imagine if the State of the Union address were hacked because the TV"
20:54:42 <GregorR-W> (etc)
20:55:04 <sedimin> aa
20:55:05 <sedimin> yes
20:55:36 <sedimin> http://shelleytherepublican.com/2006/04/20/linux-a-european-threat-to-our-c
20:55:38 <sedimin> it's worth reading
20:55:46 <GregorR-W> OH, that Shelly the Republican thing.
20:55:48 <GregorR-W> Rightright.
20:55:50 <sedimin> yes yes
20:56:11 -!- sedimin__ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
20:56:11 <sedimin> it's just good for the everyday amount of laughter
21:01:02 <jix> uhm thats satire isn't it?
21:01:40 <sedimin> i hope so
21:05:02 <ihope_> It shouldn't be too hard to write an IRC client.
21:06:20 <GregorR-W> jix: Yes, it's fake.
21:09:12 <ihope_> Is it okay if I don't implement CTCP?
21:09:34 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
21:10:12 <bsmntbombdood> ihope_: why would you write an irc client
21:11:04 * ihope_ ponders grammar
21:11:09 <GregorR-W> lol
21:11:13 <GregorR-W> Why would you write a question mark.
21:11:36 <ihope_> I want to have an IRC client such that I know exactly how it works.
21:11:59 <sedimin> would you want to have a woman that you know exactly how she works?
21:12:06 <bsmntbombdood> My question mark is broken, see: ??????????????
21:12:46 <ihope_> sedimin: depends on whether IRC clients count as women or not :-P
21:12:59 <GregorR-W> sedimin: Yes, but when I finished cutting her up I didn't have a woman anymore :(
21:13:12 <ihope_> Eew.
21:13:26 <sedimin> i would not count woman as an IRC client :/
21:13:32 <sedimin> she can talk, surely
21:13:41 <sedimin> and talk to other "IRC clients"
21:14:02 <sedimin> can also be killed, disconnected or set up
21:14:59 <sedimin> now i don't see why woman can't be used as irc client ;)
21:17:15 * SimonRC reconsiders the "jam every other day" argument in Alice in wonderlan in terms of different binding times.
21:18:07 <GregorR-W> Jam every other microsecond?
21:18:33 * SimonRC fwaps GregorR-W 
21:19:44 <ihope_> I noticed that English has a missing grammar construct.
21:20:02 <sedimin> and that is?
21:20:10 <GregorR-W> Future tense? :P
21:20:19 <GregorR-W> Past progressive tense?
21:20:22 <GregorR-W> Future progressive tense?
21:20:25 <ihope_> If you have an alarm clock, and you know when it will go off, then you have an alarm clock ___
21:20:28 <sedimin> past progressive? wtf?
21:20:29 <GregorR-W> Really, any tense but present and past.
21:20:33 <ihope_> Fill in the blank.
21:20:35 <sedimin> then you have alarm clock went off
21:20:38 <GregorR-W> sedimin: I was eating vs I ate
21:20:40 <sedimin> no?
21:20:54 <sedimin> :)
21:21:06 <ihope_> You have an alarm clock, and you know when it will go off...
21:21:07 <GregorR-W> sedimin: I don't even know what concept you think should go in the blank ...
21:21:21 <GregorR-W> Erm
21:21:25 <GregorR-W> ihope_, not sedimin :P
21:21:31 <sedimin> :)
21:21:44 <sedimin> is should be some kind of passive
21:21:50 <ihope_> Oh boy, you guys are confusing me.
21:21:54 <GregorR-W> lol
21:22:03 * ihope_ stiches back to an IRC client
21:22:05 -!- ihope_ has quit.
21:22:05 <sedimin> so what about creating English++?
21:22:16 <GregorR-W> English with object orientation? :P
21:22:17 -!- ihope has joined.
21:22:21 <sedimin> yes
21:22:22 <ihope> Better.
21:22:23 <sedimin> exatcly
21:22:30 <sedimin> but it would be backwards-compatible with English
21:22:48 <GregorR-W> ihope: If you have an alarm clock, and you know when it will go off, then you have an alarm clock, the alarm time for which you know.
21:23:00 <sedimin> that's a hack, Gregor
21:23:12 <ihope> Yes, it is...
21:23:12 <GregorR-W> It's proper :P
21:23:17 <sedimin> no, it's a hack
21:23:24 <sedimin> :)
21:23:27 <GregorR-W> It's proper!
21:23:42 <sedimin> isn't it the same as: I had some food, and when my dog ate it, it was eaten?
21:23:43 <ihope> But I said knowing when it will go off, not knowing its alarm time.
21:24:08 <sedimin> yes, somebody might have set the time differently that I thought the alarm clock was set to
21:24:21 <GregorR-W> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
21:24:22 <sedimin> ->so you don't know the time.
21:24:23 <ihope> Well...
21:24:48 <GregorR-W> Not a grammatical construct, btw.
21:25:03 <ihope> What's not a grammatical construct?
21:25:12 <sedimin> the ____
21:25:41 <sedimin> more specifically, the thing that should fill the gap
21:25:56 <sedimin> and if it fills the gap, so it is filler, not a gramatical construct
21:29:03 <GregorR-W> If you were inventing a tense, or type of word, or something, that'd be a grammatical construct.
21:30:34 <jix> LOL there was a picture of someone jerking off on the german wikipedia main page!
21:30:53 <GregorR-W> O_O
21:31:33 <jix> someone replaced a picture of Joseph von Fraunhofer witht that..
21:31:48 <ihope> What's up with pictures like that appearing on main pages?
21:37:18 <GregorR-W> http://www.bash.org/?136534
21:38:23 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: lol
21:39:11 <sedimin> ;)
21:45:11 * SimonRC goes
21:53:32 <sedimin> w00t this rules: http://www.mobilityguru.com/2006/06/07/sonys_tiny_windows_xp_powered_micro_pc/
21:57:36 <ihope> Will "normal" Windows software run on it?
21:58:10 <sedimin> yes
21:58:16 <sedimin> it is x86 with windows xp
21:58:26 <sedimin> just in small case
21:58:44 <bsmntbombdood> eh
21:59:26 <ihope> How big's the keyboard?
21:59:30 <sedimin> don't ask
21:59:46 <ihope> ...
21:59:48 <sedimin> but bluetooth keyboard could be connected
21:59:52 <GregorR-W> Will a real OS run on it?
22:00:00 <sedimin> like linux? :)
22:00:15 <GregorR-W> A good example.
22:00:35 <kipple> if it's x86 it should work, but you'd probably need some custom drivers...
22:00:38 <ihope> Define "real OS".
22:01:20 <sedimin> at least linux console will surely run without trouble with drivers
22:01:57 <kipple> probably needs a special keyboard driver
22:02:16 <kipple> the graphics and networking seems to be pretty standard, so they might work out of the box
22:02:22 <kipple> but what do I know... :P
22:02:27 <sedimin> but it features Intel graphics chipset, and also intel network
22:02:42 <sedimin> i think the keyboard will work like all keyboards on notebooks
22:03:24 <GregorR-W> Oh wow
22:03:31 <GregorR-W> That should run practically out-of-the-box then
22:03:44 <GregorR-W> Intel graphics are about the best supported on GNU/Linux in terms of purely OSS drivers.
22:04:13 <GregorR-W> Intel WLAN, not so much, but getting there :P
22:04:31 <sedimin> (not like my ati+broadcom+god-knows-what stuff ;) )
22:17:30 <kipple> fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfx3Gh7_QcY&search=sith%20emperor%20darth%20vader
22:21:06 <sedimin> lol
22:21:27 <sedimin> quite long ;)
22:32:10 <ihope> Time for a reboot!
22:34:11 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:40:57 -!- ihope has joined.
22:50:19 <ihope> So Wikipedia says it's not an indiscriminate collection of information.
22:50:36 <ihope> Where can I go to find an indiscriminate collection of information, then?
22:50:52 <ihope> "Wikistuff: the free indiscriminate collection of information."
22:51:43 <GregorR-W> lol
22:51:46 <GregorR-W> Gotta make that page :P
22:58:40 <lament> ihope: internet
22:58:57 <ihope> Oh yeah.
23:00:05 <ihope> I guess what I'm looking for is "Wikistuff: the free *consolidated* indiscriminate collection of information that anyone can edit".
23:05:55 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:06:13 <GregorR-W> Does the information have to be true?
23:06:31 <GregorR-W> If so, it's automatically discriminate, if not, it's worthless.
23:06:48 <ihope> Well, there'll always be someone discriminating.
23:09:52 <ihope> "In this way you can paint a computer on your wall and if it's not powerful enough you put on another coat of computer."
23:10:40 <ihope> (The above quote is from http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Computronium. It is available under the GNU Free Documentation License--see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html.)
23:30:34 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:33:36 -!- GregorR-W has changed nick to GregorR-V.
23:41:05 <bsmntbombdood> hmm, whats GregorR-V stand for?
23:42:10 <GregorR-V> larsivi|Zzzsaws off GregorR-W with his Zs :P
23:42:12 <GregorR-V> =-=YOU are now known as GregorR-V
23:42:13 <GregorR-V> <GregorR-V>You sawed half my W off!
23:42:33 <bsmntbombdood> ha
23:43:01 <lament> 15:42 [freenode] -!- larsivi|Zzz [n=larsivi@062016230103.customer.alfanett.no]
23:43:01 <lament> 15:42 [freenode] -!-  ircname  : Lars Ivar Igesund
23:43:01 <lament> 15:42 [freenode] -!-  channels : #D.Tango #dmedia #trout #ddl #TitanKernel #d
23:43:01 <lament>                                  #yzis
23:43:05 <lament> i don't wanna know
23:43:36 <GregorR-V> #d is the intersection of those two channel lists, lament.
23:44:13 <lament> exactly what i said.
23:48:27 -!- GregorR-V has changed nick to GregorR-W.

2006-06-08:

00:01:55 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("ANd then, Gregor went home").
00:09:05 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
00:11:24 <ihope> "ANd"?
00:15:24 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
01:16:17 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
02:08:22 * ihope yawns
02:13:57 -!- calamari has joined.
02:18:38 <SimonRC> ihope: try everything2 for an indiscriminat collection of information
02:19:05 <SimonRC> At the bottom of each page there is a collection of a couple of dozen links of varying relevance
02:19:13 <SimonRC> reeeeally addictive
02:19:42 <SimonRC> I generally get to one page from a Google search, and end up reading it for 6 hours or something like that
02:20:03 <SimonRC> do not, of courese, forget the "uncyclopedia".
02:20:09 * SimonRC goes to bed
02:24:29 -!- ihope has quit ("Bedtime").
04:20:17 -!- vincenz has joined.
04:20:19 <vincenz> Hello people!
04:21:48 <vincenz> I am in the need of some very important elp
04:21:50 <vincenz> s/elp/help
04:22:34 <vincenz> I need a good name for my programming language
04:24:08 <poiuy_qwert> F#
04:24:17 <vincenz> o.O
04:44:39 <GregorR> Why don't you explain some of its features?
04:44:47 <vincenz> it's a mixture of haskell and ml
04:45:48 * GregorR has no suggestions :P
05:34:49 -!- fizzie has joined.
05:42:52 <lament> vincenz: "ml"
06:15:55 -!- sedimin has joined.
06:16:35 <sedimin> greetings
06:31:08 <GregorR> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/Jefish.jpg
06:34:24 <sedimin> uh
06:49:22 -!- kipple has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:06:57 -!- CXII has joined.
08:07:30 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:09:51 <GregorR> !help
08:09:54 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
08:09:56 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
08:10:00 <GregorR> Wow, what a survivor it is today :P
08:59:42 -!- calamari has left (?).
09:01:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
09:47:26 <sedimin> omg
10:05:08 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
10:06:50 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
10:09:09 -!- sedimin_ has left (?).
10:13:26 -!- tgwizard has joined.
10:52:27 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
11:30:18 -!- jix has joined.
11:55:50 <SimonRC> oh dear:
11:55:57 <SimonRC> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=119185
11:56:21 <SimonRC> "Bugzilla Bug 119185 – if rpm exits in mid-transaction, the RPM data base can be left in an inconsistent state"
11:57:33 <SimonRC> <if /usr is mounted RO, rmp leaves it database in an inconsistant state> <don't do that then> <it's a bug> <no it isn't> etc
11:57:45 <SimonRC> IMO it *is* a bug
14:44:24 -!- goxen has joined.
14:47:37 -!- goxen has quit (Client Quit).
16:43:08 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
16:57:53 -!- ChanServ has joined.
16:57:53 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
17:13:33 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
18:19:36 -!- Robdgreat has quit ("I'd rather have this bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.").
18:42:07 <lament> is Oerjan Johansen here?
19:07:23 -!- ihope has joined.
19:07:26 <ihope> Oh, right!
19:08:03 <ihope> My English word regex was a failure (mostly because English is so weird, I'm sure), so now I'll try a Spanish one.
19:32:52 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
19:33:00 <sedimin_> hi there
19:33:04 <ihope> Hello.
19:33:12 <ihope> All stereotypes are stupid!
19:33:28 <sedimin_> sometimes not
19:33:32 -!- sedimin_ has changed nick to sedimin.
19:36:19 <sedimin> hm. what is the EOF defines as? it varies from OS to OS or from what?
19:36:26 <sedimin> I thought it was 0
19:37:19 <ihope> Isn't EOF obsolete? :-P
19:37:36 <sedimin> :)
19:37:40 <sedimin> but look at this:
19:37:54 <sedimin> rtfm
19:37:54 <sedimin>  stfw lol
19:37:54 <sedimin>  wtf lol iz liek 0
19:37:54 <sedimin>   tldr
19:37:54 <sedimin>  brb
19:37:54 <sedimin>  rofl lol
19:37:55 <sedimin> brb
19:38:42 <sedimin> ehm -> http://rafb.net/paste/results/Y0qnBt87.html
19:39:15 <sedimin> the problem is, it runs for infinite amount of time
19:39:36 <sedimin> so i can't stop it
19:41:34 <fizzie> If by "EOF" you mean the C language macro in <stdio.h>, it _can't_ be 0, because: "EOF which expands to an integer constant expression, with type int and a negative value, that is returned by several functions to indicate end-of-file, --" (C99 7.9.1, paragraph 3.)
19:42:16 <fizzie> (If you mean some other EOF, disregard the previous.)
19:43:03 <sedimin> I think the general end-of-file expression
19:44:06 <sedimin> for example, brainfuck cat program is ,[.,] I think. so when the current cell value is 0, then it ends
19:45:22 <fizzie> I don't think there is any "general end-of-file"; especially with brainf*ck environments EOF seems to vary between 0, 255 and no-change.
19:46:37 <fizzie> (And probably -1, too, if there are some non-byte-cells.)
19:46:40 <sedimin> i see
19:47:14 <sedimin> but imagine you have a program of some kind (cat for example) and you are giving it input. then you give it ctrl+z in windows, or ctrl+d in linux
19:47:21 <sedimin> and it stops
19:48:35 <fizzie> It stops if the cat program has been written to understand the EOF given by the brainf*ck system. That particular cat program would not work for a "EOF means no change to current cell" brainf*ck system.)
19:48:47 <sedimin> i see
19:48:54 <sedimin> thanks
19:50:44 <sedimin> geeez i'm stupid
19:56:18 <sedimin> i just thought of keyboard shortcut that yields EOF and its value - i forgot that it's dirrefent on windows and linux
19:57:44 <fizzie> The keyboard shortcut to give EOF is very probably not what the program sees, anyway.
19:58:25 <sedimin> yes,
19:59:13 <sedimin> but i wondered why the cat program does not end on ctrl+z when using standard input, and it did when a file has been redirected into standard input
20:03:03 -!- sedimin has left (?).
20:08:38 -!- sedimin__ has joined.
20:18:47 <sedimin__> hm
20:41:20 <kipple> hi sedimin
20:41:25 <sedimin__> hey
20:41:36 <kipple> I'm Rune in the wiki.
20:41:45 <kipple> about that EOF and file handling...
20:41:51 <sedimin__> go on
20:42:17 <kipple> first off, I think 255 file handles is a lot. probably enough
20:42:36 <kipple> reading filenames off the stack is not a bad idea
20:42:43 <sedimin__> yes, but imagine an omgrofl operating system
20:42:51 <kipple> ah :)
20:42:53 <sedimin__> it would be only able to have 255 handles at run time :(
20:42:54 <sedimin__> :)
20:43:06 <kipple> why not simply make it 32bit...
20:43:26 <sedimin__> or 1024-bit? :)
20:43:46 <kipple> or undefined
20:43:52 <sedimin__> then it would be prepared for 1024-bit processors
20:43:56 <kipple> and let each implementation choose
20:43:59 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
20:44:10 <sedimin__> hmm
20:44:17 <sedimin__> that's wise
20:47:33 <kipple> an operator that reads a (zero-terminated) filename off the stack and opens it would be nice I think. But only if file IO (apart from STDIO) is actually wanter
20:47:36 <kipple> wanted
20:47:51 <sedimin__> hmm
20:49:15 <sedimin__> imagine it is
20:49:32 <sedimin__> then there will be commands to read from a file?
20:50:06 <ihope> If you add that, you'll have to add pointers.
20:50:13 <sedimin__> of will we swap the STDI/O for the file handle and use stfw or rofl to read/write to/from file?
20:50:14 <ihope> That is, you
20:50:34 <ihope> 'll have to add dynamic memory allocation, which more-or-less requires pointers.
20:50:34 <kipple> you can add a second parameter to rofl and stfw
20:51:00 <kipple> or you can have a command that sets the active file
20:51:04 <sedimin__> yes
20:51:14 <ihope> Then you'll need a good way to do network connections.
20:51:17 <sedimin__> :)
20:51:25 <sedimin__> i was actually going to say it!
20:51:29 <sedimin__> heh
20:51:42 <kipple> actually, due to the nature of the language the IRC protocol should probably be included :P
20:51:56 <sedimin__> or somebody should just code IRC library
20:52:33 <ihope> Ah, yes. Libraries.
20:52:45 <ihope> There needs to be a way to define functions, and a way to call them.
20:53:50 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
20:53:53 <sedimin_> stupid miranda
20:55:06 <sedimin_> ...
20:55:18 <sedimin_> so, but - when we'll be able to change active file
20:55:34 <sedimin_> we still won't be able to seek in the files, just use them as streams
20:56:01 <kipple> true
20:56:17 <kipple> you could of course add random access functionality, but is it really necessary?
20:56:36 <sedimin_> i don't think so
20:56:47 <sedimin_> you may read the entire file into stack
20:56:51 <sedimin_> and manipulate it there
20:57:40 <sedimin_> and to the function definitions
20:57:49 <sedimin_> i still have the "omg" keyword reserved ;)
20:58:30 <kipple> indeed. it needs an omg keyword
20:58:43 <ihope> And a bbq keyword.
20:59:16 <kipple> bbq? like in barbequeue?
20:59:31 <ihope> Yeah.
20:59:47 <ihope> I guess it could mark the end of whatever omg begins.
20:59:56 <sedimin_> :))
20:59:56 <kipple> bbl is also available
21:00:01 <kipple> and cya
21:00:07 <sedimin_> many keywords ;)
21:00:08 <ihope> And wtf needs to be one of the things that omg and bbq can enclose.
21:01:30 <sedimin_> maybe it should be object-oriented and programmer-hostile
21:02:47 <sedimin_> hm. doesn't bbq mean also "be back quick" ? :)
21:05:06 <ihope> Yeah, it does!
21:05:22 <sedimin_> but barbeque sounds nicer
21:05:36 <sedimin_> especially in a code
21:06:54 <kipple> a couple of others: g2g, wb, IANAL, btw
21:08:46 <kipple> good list: http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/acronyms.php
21:10:11 <kipple> brb :)
21:11:00 -!- sedimin__ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:11:44 <ihope> I'd say IANA could be an output command, but...
21:12:13 <sedimin_> :))
21:12:21 <sedimin_> or http://www.noslang.com/dictionary/full
21:12:23 <sedimin_> brb
21:12:25 -!- sedimin_ has left (?).
21:12:48 <ihope> An example: "IANAH; IANAe; IANAl; IANAl; IANAo; IANA,; IANA ; IANAw; IANAo; IANAr; IANAl; IANAd; IANA!"
21:17:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:28:11 -!- sedimin has joined.
21:29:47 <sedimin> eh
21:30:22 <sedimin> so what about the networking and libraries in omgrofl? :)
21:30:50 <ihope> :-D can be import.
21:31:04 <ihope> Except that I wanted emoticons to be comments.
21:31:35 <sedimin> just a harmless comment?
21:32:01 <sedimin> wherever in the code like  lol :) iz 3
21:39:54 <lament> IANA should obviously only allow capital letters
21:40:21 <ihope> sedimin: yep.
21:40:23 <lament> IANAH; IANAE; IANAL; IANAL; IANAO
21:41:02 <ihope> I am not a large humanoid; I am not an elemental; I am not a lich; I am not a lich; I am not an ogre?
21:41:09 <lament> perhaps it could even allow several at a time
21:41:18 <lament> IANAHE; IANAL; IANALO
21:42:09 <ihope> But we already have an output command, don't we?
21:43:15 <lament> i am not a happy elephant; i am not a lawyer; i am not a little orange.
21:58:29 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:15:41 -!- vincenz has quit ("leaving").
22:46:32 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:55:09 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:56:11 -!- lindi- has joined.
23:26:07 -!- tgwizard has quit (Success).

2006-06-09:

00:05:49 -!- Arrogant has joined.
00:12:28 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
00:51:48 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
00:55:00 -!- Arrogant has joined.
02:04:57 <Arrogant> So... where is everyone?
02:05:31 <ihope> Here.
02:05:42 <SimonRC> gaaah
02:05:44 <SimonRC> nfs isn't working
02:06:28 <Arrogant> What's nfs?
02:06:59 <SimonRC> !google nfs
02:07:11 <SimonRC> EgoBot: !ping
02:07:15 <ihope> !ping
02:07:16 <SimonRC> ping
02:07:18 <SimonRC> !ping
02:07:19 <ihope> !help
02:07:34 <Arrogant> I think you killed it
02:07:34 <SimonRC> GregorR: EGOBOT'S CRASHED AGAIN!
02:07:55 <SimonRC> ihope: don't know anthign about nfs, do you?
02:08:08 <Arrogant> need for speedofcourse
02:08:09 <ihope> No.
02:08:19 <SimonRC> Arrogant: no
02:08:24 <SimonRC> network filesystem
02:08:37 <Arrogant> Ah
02:08:38 <SimonRC> or in this case nyetwork filesystem :-)
02:09:05 <Arrogant> The first page on Google didn't actually say what an NFS was
02:16:37 <Arrogant> Anyone have any new languages in mind or in the works?
02:17:45 <ihope> I have one.
02:18:03 <ihope> What's the C operation to dereference a pointer?
02:18:17 <Arrogant> *name
02:18:18 <Arrogant> i think
02:20:03 <Arrogant> What's your language?
02:20:31 <ihope> Pointy.
02:21:02 <Arrogant> Can you stab people with it?
02:21:17 * ihope stabs Arrogant with Pointy
02:21:29 <Arrogant> I get your Point
02:25:00 <ihope> And it's bedtime already...
02:25:10 <ihope> I'll post the spec tomorrow.
02:26:04 <Arrogant> K.
02:26:47 <Arrogant> There aren't any function pointers in Rack so I'm going to write up a new spec that covers that.
02:31:16 <Arrogant> I don't know how neccessary it is
02:31:21 <Arrogant> I should write some stuff first
02:32:39 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:32:39 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:33:21 * SimonRC gets nfs to work
02:42:51 -!- poiuy_qwert` has joined.
02:43:51 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:00:36 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:19:00 -!- sp3tt_ has joined.
03:19:37 -!- calamari has joined.
03:22:01 -!- heatsink has joined.
03:23:21 -!- sekhmet_ has joined.
03:25:31 -!- sp3tt__ has joined.
03:30:15 -!- sp3tt has quit (Connection timed out).
03:37:52 -!- sp3tt_ has quit (Connection timed out).
03:40:07 -!- sekhmet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:40:14 -!- sekhmet has quit (Success).
03:43:41 -!- sekhmet has joined.
03:51:25 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
04:02:59 -!- GregorR has joined.
04:06:57 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
05:41:34 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
06:12:08 -!- sedimin has joined.
06:28:30 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
06:53:43 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:56:36 -!- calamari has joined.
07:10:10 -!- heatsink has quit ("sleep").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:20:42 -!- sedimin has joined.
08:20:51 <sedimin> morning :)
08:22:21 <bsmntbombdood> night :)
08:25:01 <sedimin> no, morning: )
08:25:01 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
08:25:26 <sedimin> is there any language that works according to the weather?
08:26:43 <sedimin> I have such idea, that in the source, you will only write number of days (for example, 0 3 2 1 4) and it will do instructions that match the forecasted weather of today, 3 days from now, 2 days from now etc
08:40:47 -!- sedimin__ has joined.
08:42:49 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
08:43:04 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has left (?).
08:43:48 <sedimin__> but the programs will work only in one day:P
08:47:57 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
09:12:44 -!- sedimin__ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
09:22:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to frob.
09:23:28 -!- frob has changed nick to trope.
09:23:40 -!- trope has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
11:36:03 -!- ihope has joined.
11:54:33 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:06:20 -!- ihope has joined.
12:10:42 -!- lindi- has quit ("...").
12:28:14 -!- ihope_ has joined.
12:46:06 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:03:13 -!- sp3tt__ has changed nick to sp3tt.
13:43:42 -!- sedimin has joined.
14:59:26 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:47:19 -!- sedimin has joined.
15:58:43 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:12:09 -!- jix has joined.
16:14:39 -!- kipple has joined.
16:24:11 -!- sedimin has left (?).
17:04:13 -!- ihope_ has joined.
17:04:20 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
17:06:46 <wildhalcyon> howdy
17:27:52 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
17:35:55 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:36:22 -!- lindi- has joined.
17:58:16 -!- sedimin has joined.
17:58:39 <sedimin> what's up? :)
17:59:18 <GregorR-W> ^ that way
17:59:25 <GregorR-W> (Unless your monitor is sideways or something)
17:59:36 <kipple> hmm. wazzup? could be an OMGROFL command I guess ;)
17:59:42 <sedimin> yes
18:00:04 <sedimin> actually, i used my monitor rotated yesterday :)
18:00:07 <sedimin> so up was >
18:00:41 <sedimin> what will the 'wazzup' command do in omgrofl?
18:00:59 <kipple> no idea...
18:00:59 <sedimin> it should do something with checking
18:01:04 <kipple> yes
18:01:14 <sedimin> but we do have wtf command
18:06:28 <sedimin> when do you ask wazzup in real life?
18:06:43 <GregorR-W> When you're an idiot.
18:07:24 <sedimin> so, when programmer feels like an idiot, he may ask the program what's up
18:11:37 -!- sedimin has left (?).
18:11:59 <GregorR-W> I scared 'im away :P
18:36:23 <wildhalcyon> howdy again, sorry
18:36:45 <wildhalcyon> my wife's graduation is being shown on an online telecast, so I've been watching that
18:37:29 <wildhalcyon> For sedmin's future reference, there IS a programming language that changes daily.
18:37:37 <wildhalcyon> TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL, from p-nand-q
18:38:09 <wildhalcyon> Same folks who brought us Java2K, which is 50% more reliable than Java
20:51:45 <wildhalcyon> has anyone figured out the solution to that PROLAN/M summation problem? :-( Its killin' me!
20:52:36 <wildhalcyon> s/the solution/a solution/
21:11:11 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:11:18 -!- sp3tt has joined.
21:28:31 -!- poiuy_qwert` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:56:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:50:14 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
23:26:58 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:46:51 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:49:04 <GregorR-W> !help
23:49:07 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
23:49:09 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl

2006-06-10:

00:20:10 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
00:20:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
00:35:31 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Client Quit).
00:35:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
00:44:10 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
00:53:29 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Raar").
01:11:24 <SimonRC> ug
01:34:56 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:07:02 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
02:12:19 -!- ihope_ has joined.
02:12:26 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
02:17:43 <wildhalcyon> omgrofl is looking pretty interesting
03:07:39 <SimonRC> OMFG this would be *soooo* cool if it wasn't for the lack of long-term implant durability:    http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/06/09/2035206.shtml
03:07:52 * SimonRC goes to bed
03:24:58 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:33:48 -!- the_cacdedcadtss has joined.
07:37:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
07:40:16 -!- the_cacdedcadtss has quit (Client Quit).
07:47:52 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:52:33 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
10:06:45 -!- sedimin has joined.
10:07:04 <sedimin> evening!
10:20:10 -!- jix has joined.
10:29:59 -!- sedimin has left (?).
10:31:28 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
11:09:20 -!- kipple has joined.
11:33:01 <sedimin_> key kipple
12:13:29 -!- Keymaker has joined.
12:14:24 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: i'll try to program one
12:14:48 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: can't promise i succeed, ;P
12:16:24 <Keymaker> and, hi everyone :)
12:42:46 <Keymaker> if only one wouldn't need to store the input values.. grrrh
13:00:38 <Keymaker> gotta go. bye
13:00:40 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
13:37:37 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:44:19 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
13:58:50 -!- tokigun has joined.
14:08:33 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:22:13 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:22:22 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
14:45:46 <ihope> !help
14:45:49 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
14:45:51 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
14:46:03 <ihope> Not much is new, eh?
14:46:28 <ihope> !axo (H*<Of"Hello, world!">.,Ik{38})
14:48:56 <ihope> !ps d
14:48:59 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: axo
14:49:01 <EgoBot> 2 ihope: ps
14:49:04 <ihope> !kill 1
14:49:09 <EgoBot> Process 1 killed.
16:12:04 <ihope> So Prolog doesn't have monads...
16:12:53 * ihope wonders how Prolog would handle monads
16:16:05 <ihope> return(X, just X)
16:16:21 <ihope> bind(just X, Y, Y(X))
16:16:29 <ihope> bind(nothing, Y, nothing)
16:16:33 <ihope> Something like that?
16:30:53 <ihope> Or maybe this: bind(just X, Y, Z) :- Y(X,Z)
16:31:11 * ihope wonders if Prolog can handle things like that
16:32:21 <jix> wtf?! i just started a prolog program and someone here starts to talk about prolog
16:32:26 <jix> +coding
16:37:39 -!- tokigun has joined.
16:40:18 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:40:20 -!- cmeme has joined.
16:50:42 -!- tokigun has joined.
17:01:31 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:01:47 -!- CXII has quit (Connection timed out).
17:16:29 <ihope> So, in that one part in "Steppin' Out", is every note played twice, or does it just sound like it?
17:16:44 <ihope> And if it just sounds like it, is that due to the little bell that plays?
17:18:11 -!- tokigun has joined.
17:22:38 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:32:48 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
17:48:06 * ihope decides that it's one "note" that can be heard only on the "on" and the "off"
18:16:28 <SimonRC> eh?  "Steppin' Out"?
18:19:29 <ihope> By Joe Jackson.
18:28:01 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
18:28:34 <sedimin_> hell, why do I always write "idenfity" instead of "identify"? :)
18:32:30 -!- tgwizard has joined.
18:34:19 <wildhalcyon> dyslexia?
18:34:39 <sedimin_> may be
18:34:47 <sedimin_> but it never happened to me
18:34:51 <sedimin_> :/
18:35:11 <wildhalcyon> just with the one word?
18:35:46 <sedimin_> yes
18:35:59 <sedimin_> every time I connect to the IRC
18:36:22 <wildhalcyon> you didn't get those magnetic implants, did you?
18:36:34 <sedimin_> what magic implants? :/
18:36:39 <sedimin_> do you have one?
18:37:46 <wildhalcyon> magnetic, not magic. No, I'm afraid I don't
18:38:57 <sedimin_> omg
18:39:50 <sedimin_> i cannot read... :)
18:40:22 <wildhalcyon> so I was browsing wikipedia looking for untapped esolang potential last night.
18:40:45 <sedimin_> and did you write something
18:40:50 <wildhalcyon> I came upon Lindenmayer systems (l-systems). They seemed interesting, then I realized that they were EXACTLY THE FREAKIN' SAME AS THUE SYSTEMS!
18:40:52 <sedimin_> umm
18:41:01 <sedimin_> ...really?
18:41:21 <wildhalcyon> yup. Both deal with string replacement using left/right-side rules
18:41:37 <sedimin_> but it's waaay old
18:42:02 <wildhalcyon> Well, L-systems are more broad than just the string replacement in Thue.
18:42:13 <sedimin_> I se
18:42:15 <sedimin_> see*
18:42:24 <wildhalcyon> They can be stochastic, include variables of sorts, and have context sensativity
18:42:38 <sedimin_> what is stochastic?
18:43:04 <wildhalcyon> The output is random
18:43:20 <wildhalcyon> I realize Thue allows some randomization, but its limited
18:49:18 <sedimin_> i never could understand the Thue completely
18:49:19 <sedimin_> :)
18:50:06 <wildhalcyon> I tried a bit of programming in it. Its a difficult system to implement an algorithm in.
18:50:53 <sedimin_> but maybe less difficult than in Malbolge, right?
18:50:56 <wildhalcyon> Some things are easy. I made a very simple program that could match a string regular expressions could not.
18:51:04 <wildhalcyon> Probably less difficult than malbolge, yes.
18:51:25 <sedimin_> what exactly did your program?
18:51:34 <sedimin_> what kind of string could it match?
18:52:14 <wildhalcyon> a string of a's,b's, and c's (in that order), where the number of a's, b's, and c's were the same.
18:52:25 <sedimin_> hm
18:52:32 <wildhalcyon> {abc}, {aabbcc}, {aaabbbccc}... etc
18:52:36 <sedimin_> regexp may not match it
18:52:44 <wildhalcyon> nope, regex's can't count.
18:52:47 <sedimin_> but a simple for loop could
18:53:09 <sedimin_> but were the a's, b's and c's hardcoded into program?
18:53:18 <wildhalcyon> yes.
18:53:43 <wildhalcyon> the program looked like this:
18:53:57 <wildhalcyon> abb:=bab
18:54:13 <wildhalcyon> abc::=
18:54:24 <wildhalcyon> {}::=VALID
18:54:49 <sedimin_> uh
18:54:56 <sedimin_> let me look at the syntax
18:55:58 <wildhalcyon> sorry, that last line should be []::=~VALID
18:56:10 <wildhalcyon> arg {}::=~VALID even.
18:56:11 <sedimin_> and the input was also hardcoded?
18:57:36 <wildhalcyon> well, yes. But that's an easy fix
18:57:51 <sedimin_> i see
18:58:06 <sedimin_> so the last line was the "initial state" like "aabbcc" ?
18:59:29 <wildhalcyon> right, except that it had to be enclosed in curly braces {}
18:59:47 <sedimin_> why?
19:01:37 <wildhalcyon> in order to match {} and output VALID.
19:01:55 <wildhalcyon> Otherwise, a valid string would simply eat up everything, turn to nothing, and the program would exit.
19:02:15 <sedimin_> and you can't determine if string is null?
19:02:35 <sedimin_> or nothing? couldn't something like ::=~VALID?
19:02:47 <sedimin_> '::=~VALID'
19:03:13 <wildhalcyon> not that I'm aware of. I could be wrong though
19:03:36 <sedimin_> there is written: Execution consists of picking, from the list of rules, an arbitrary rule whose original string exists as a substring somewhere in the program state, and replacing that substring by the rule's replacement string.
19:03:51 <sedimin_> and I think that empty string is substring of each string
19:03:53 <sedimin_> hm
19:05:21 -!- coder_ has joined.
19:05:24 <sedimin_> but if empty string was in every string and Thue will act like that, then it will output VALID to each string,  so your { } is right
19:05:45 <wildhalcyon> exactly.
19:05:55 <wildhalcyon> My way is SURE to work, while the other way... might not.
19:06:08 <wildhalcyon> I want to expand Thue a bit...
19:06:08 <sedimin_> i'll try it out
19:08:56 <sedimin_> do you use the python interpreter?
19:09:04 <wildhalcyon> yup
19:12:26 <sedimin_> hm
19:12:33 <sedimin_> is there way to output current program state?
19:13:10 <wildhalcyon> not sure
19:13:21 <wildhalcyon> I just got started with this at like 1am last night
19:15:24 <sedimin_> :))
19:16:00 <sedimin_> because without that, i find debugging quite hard
19:16:22 <SimonRC> heh
19:16:31 <sedimin_> but i'm sure the interpreter offers something like interactive mode or it could be hacked to output the program state after applying each rule
19:23:01 <sedimin_> ...
19:24:26 <wildhalcyon> ... maybe
19:30:18 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
19:31:46 <sedimin_> i found that when the interpreteris invoked with option  -d
19:32:00 <sedimin_> it acts in debug mode
19:32:15 <sedimin_> and prints the data after each transformation
19:35:05 <wildhalcyon> that's handy :-D
19:36:08 <sedimin_> I understand the program except for one thing
19:36:42 <sedimin_> it does this: it transforms each 'good' aaabbbccc or aaaabbbbcccc string into aabbcc
19:36:56 <sedimin_> then, following rule 1, into ababcc
19:37:05 <sedimin_> ah i see now
19:37:06 <sedimin_> :)
19:37:12 <sedimin_> excellent algorithm :)
19:37:18 <wildhalcyon> Thanks.
19:37:32 <wildhalcyon> After my success, I tried another algorithm...
19:37:44 <sedimin_> that is?
19:39:27 <wildhalcyon> this time, I wanted to take a balanced ternary number of the form {+0-} (or similar) and output 1111 or -1-1-1-1.. where the number of 1's or -1's was the magnitude of the number
19:39:57 <wildhalcyon> It didn't work so well. I was having trouble multiplying by 3 for some reason. :-(
19:40:07 <wildhalcyon> brb
19:41:19 -!- tokigun has joined.
19:44:17 -!- grandrew has joined.
19:44:27 -!- grandrew has left (?).
19:46:34 -!- CXI has joined.
19:47:24 <wildhalcyon> bah
19:47:31 <wildhalcyon> back too
19:52:14 <sedimin_> :)
19:52:15 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:08:50 -!- tokigun has joined.
20:13:27 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:15:42 <sedimin_> somebody watching football?
20:17:51 <kipple> nah
20:27:15 <sedimin_> that's ok :)
20:29:11 -!- tokigun has joined.
20:35:45 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:43:52 -!- calamari has joined.
20:49:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:51:35 -!- tokigun has joined.
20:53:27 <sedimin_> shitshit
20:53:30 <SimonRC> what?
20:53:43 <sedimin_> I am preparing release of my app...
20:54:18 <sedimin_> I made some changes to the version at home, forgot to check it in the CVS, then made some other changes at my girlfriend's and then put it in CVS
20:54:27 <SimonRC> ouch
20:54:31 <sedimin_> now I have to merge the changes together....
20:54:39 <SimonRC> Hope they will merge.
20:54:43 <GregorR> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Same change you did there
20:54:44 <GregorR> ....
20:54:47 <GregorR> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Change repeated
20:54:49 <GregorR> ...
20:54:50 <GregorR> :P
20:54:54 <sedimin_> heh
20:55:56 <sedimin_> it is funny watching like apps like to grow, but don't like to shrink :)
20:56:12 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:58:06 <sedimin_> do you know any woman programmer?
20:58:35 <kipple> there is one where I work
20:58:46 <kipple> and there were of course several at the uni
20:59:04 -!- cmeme has quit (No route to host).
20:59:39 <kipple> MUHAHA. now we can say whatever we want without big brother watching us :D
21:01:21 <GregorR> lol
21:01:24 <GregorR> clog: Hi.
21:01:30 <GregorR> Did you forget we have two big brothers here?
21:01:35 <kipple> argh
21:01:49 <kipple> good thing I didn't say anything compromising then...
21:02:08 * SimonRC wonders who they would be
21:11:57 <ihope> cmeme?
21:26:40 -!- Keymaker has joined.
21:27:33 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: hello
21:27:40 <wildhalcyon> hey keymaker
21:27:42 <wildhalcyon> whats up?
21:28:01 -!- tokigun has joined.
21:28:04 <Keymaker> hmm, i don't know :)
21:28:16 <Keymaker> but anyways, that prolan/m problem interests me too..
21:28:34 <Keymaker> i declared earlier today on this channel (if you've seen logs) that i try to program it
21:28:34 <SimonRC> :-o   "Q13.   42 : Cousin :: 6 : ?"
21:29:00 <Keymaker> however, it's very difficult!!
21:29:01 <wildhalcyon> I thought I had a way to do it, but I'm not sure.
21:29:08 <Keymaker> aha
21:29:20 <Keymaker> i'm sure there are different ways :)
21:29:32 <Keymaker> btw, for how old was that competition?
21:29:35 <wildhalcyon> I think that's what they implied by encouraging participants to submit two versions
21:29:37 <wildhalcyon> 1990
21:29:44 <Keymaker> i mean, for how old people
21:29:54 <Keymaker> like for youngsters or?
21:30:44 <wildhalcyon> I think it was for college students
21:30:47 <wildhalcyon> not sure
21:30:50 <Keymaker> ok
21:30:56 <Keymaker> might be reasonable guess
21:31:34 -!- cmeme has joined.
21:31:51 <ihope> SimonRC: yikes.
21:32:25 <wildhalcyon> I'm having trouble performing place-value operations. I know its possible, but I don't have the mad string-replacement skills to do it in
21:32:35 <Keymaker> hehe
21:32:36 <Keymaker> yea
21:33:08 <Keymaker> what annoys me most is tha the user has to keep the input values in memory one way or another..
21:33:13 <Keymaker> *that
21:33:22 * SimonRC isn't sure what the answer is.
21:33:31 <ihope> Where is this?
21:33:35 <Keymaker> what?
21:33:37 <Keymaker> :)
21:33:40 <SimonRC> http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/smartest.html
21:34:14 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:34:28 <SimonRC> hmm, his client didn;t like that URL
21:34:49 <Keymaker> anyways. it'd be nice to see a working solution one day :)
21:35:13 <wildhalcyon> A lot of those analogies are easy. :-#
21:35:42 <wildhalcyon> not all, but a lot of them
21:37:48 <wildhalcyon> the pattern stuff is harder :-(
21:38:08 <SimonRC> hmm, yeah
21:39:45 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:50:09 -!- tokigun has joined.
21:58:49 <Keymaker> will there ever be new Essies?
22:00:51 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:05:07 <ihope> Who runs the Essies?
22:05:17 <Keymaker> no idea
22:05:27 <Keymaker> perhaps we might have something other fun esolang competition
22:05:32 <Keymaker> *might=could
22:06:06 <GregorR> Anonymous-peer-judged esolang-writing contest.
22:06:53 <Keymaker> hm, i'd like to see more clever programs instead of always new languages
22:09:23 <Keymaker> sure new langs are nice, but it's sometimes annoying when writing any programs is left as exercise for the reader :P
22:11:15 -!- tokigun has joined.
22:13:21 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:13:43 <Keymaker> tell me, is any irc channel really worth one's time? :)
22:14:30 <ihope> Is esoteric programming really worth one's time
22:14:32 <ihope> ?
22:14:41 <Keymaker> yes, it definitely is
22:15:07 <Keymaker> i just meant that nothing happens on this channel :D
22:18:14 -!- tokigun has joined.
22:19:32 <SimonRC> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4633452260  -- lolol @ at "added information"
22:19:36 * SimonRC tries not to laugh too much at the messages to Bob.
22:21:49 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:56:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:57:00 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
23:09:42 -!- tokigun has joined.
23:18:22 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:28:47 -!- tokigun has joined.
23:30:43 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
23:43:42 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:47:38 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:57:59 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
23:58:05 -!- tokigun has joined.

2006-06-11:

00:04:25 <Keymaker> ihope: interesting new lang. gotta try to inspect it more once there's an interpreter
00:04:41 <ihope> That'd be easy enough to write.
00:06:46 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:07:25 <Keymaker> cool :)
00:07:31 <Keymaker> and yeah..
00:10:35 <wildhalcyon> You're referring to Pointy?
00:10:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
00:11:21 <GregorR> The whole idea of having a peer-judged new lang contest would be that the winner would actually be new and original ...
00:17:05 <Keymaker> wildhalcyon: yae, i was referring to pointy.
00:17:16 <Keymaker> although smatiny is one of my favourites these days ;)
00:18:21 <ihope> I like BackFlip.
00:18:28 <ihope> I've never done anything with it, but still...
00:19:13 <Keymaker> yeah, it's nice too
00:19:22 <Keymaker> (never done anything in it either :D)
00:20:05 <ihope> One very useless BackFlip construction: a field surrounded by arrows pointing inward.
00:20:49 <ihope> You can go in, but then the only way out is back the way you came.
00:27:51 -!- tokigun has joined.
00:29:25 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:50:29 -!- tokigun has joined.
00:50:59 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:01:25 -!- tokigun has joined.
01:01:26 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
01:08:49 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:12:33 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:16:43 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
01:28:55 -!- tokigun has joined.
01:34:32 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:50:16 -!- tokigun has joined.
01:54:41 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:59:56 -!- tokigun has joined.
02:16:45 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:37:48 -!- tokigun has joined.
02:57:55 -!- ihope has quit ("Bedtime").
02:59:41 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:10:04 -!- tokigun has joined.
03:20:11 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:20:12 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:45:41 <wildhalcyon> damn it. I'm trying to come up with a good idea for a theoretical esolang creation competition.
03:47:29 <GregorR> I think the main thing is making the judgment fair.
03:48:04 <GregorR> I'd say all of the contestants are also judges, and vote for three entries (one of which will probalby be their own).
03:50:22 <wildhalcyon> I say we exempt our own from votes
03:51:48 <GregorR> The effect is the same *shrugs*
03:53:05 <wildhalcyon> I suppose so
03:57:51 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:03:28 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:19:20 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:24:59 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:40:45 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:46:24 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:18:07 -!- tokigun has joined.
05:28:50 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:33:00 <wildhalcyon> Anyone available for some interrogation?
05:34:19 <wildhalcyon> Suppose, instead of the traditional bf turing machine, you have a different one.
05:35:08 <wildhalcyon> Instead of marking cells, your instructions involve grouping them together, and pulling them apart
05:37:21 <wildhalcyon> So you have >, <, + (join), - (pop one off the current clump), and ~ to swap the cell with the next one in line.
05:39:14 -!- tokigun has joined.
05:39:15 <wildhalcyon> I think I'll name it KTM for Katamari Turing Machine.
05:39:29 <wildhalcyon> Although I'm not sure if its Turing-Complete or not
05:39:31 <wildhalcyon> :-D
05:39:42 <GregorR> (Nobody talk, eventually he'll just shut up ;) )
05:39:43 <GregorR> I mean hi
05:39:57 <wildhalcyon> lol, Gregor, Im afraid that's where you're wrong
05:40:20 <wildhalcyon> although I just whipped out my notepad clone to write up a spec ;-) That probably would have shut me up for a couple minutes
05:49:57 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:52:53 <wildhalcyon> Hmmm, I'm still not sure if its TC or not
05:53:54 <wildhalcyon> I don't think it is, because it essentially "removes" cells to increment the current cell.
06:00:22 -!- tokigun has joined.
06:02:05 <wildhalcyon> Meh, just an idea I had
06:07:54 -!- calamari has joined.
06:07:55 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:18:25 -!- tokigun has joined.
06:23:06 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:23:46 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:38:46 -!- tokigun has joined.
06:40:19 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:44:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
06:57:47 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:01:23 -!- tokigun has joined.
07:03:57 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:08:21 -!- tokigun has joined.
07:09:54 -!- tokigun has quit (Success).
07:22:08 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
07:23:26 -!- Arrogant has joined.
07:30:58 -!- tokigun has joined.
07:36:35 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:47:09 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
07:54:26 -!- Arrogant_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:46 -!- Arrogant has quit (Nick collision from services.).
08:01:49 -!- Arrogant_ has changed nick to Arrogant.
08:08:19 -!- tokigun has joined.
08:19:02 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:29:32 -!- tokigun has joined.
08:41:15 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:51:39 -!- tokigun has joined.
08:54:15 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:58:42 -!- tokigun has joined.
09:00:14 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:10:37 -!- tokigun has joined.
09:13:11 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:18:13 -!- tokigun has joined.
09:21:36 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:58:51 -!- tokigun has joined.
10:00:24 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:10:48 -!- tokigun has joined.
10:11:09 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:20:07 -!- jix has joined.
10:22:44 -!- sedimin_ has left (?).
10:28:07 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
10:37:40 -!- tokigun has joined.
10:48:22 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:51:31 -!- kipple has joined.
11:07:21 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:42:30 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
11:42:45 -!- sedimin_ has changed nick to sedimin.
11:44:42 <sedimin> somebody was talking about esolang competition?
11:47:21 <sedimin> I saw something in yesterday's log, but did anything emerge from it?
11:48:43 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
12:02:04 <kipple> how about having an annual award (in several categories) where all that has been done that year can be nominated
12:05:37 <sedimin> that sounds good
12:05:44 <sedimin> Like esoOscar? :)
12:07:29 <kipple> yeah
12:07:41 <kipple> hopefully we could usurp the Essies name
12:08:25 <kipple> the problem with the contests that have been in the past is that they are so time limited. most interesting stuff gets made outside of those time limits
12:09:47 <sedimin> so
12:09:54 <sedimin> why not limit it to entire year?
12:10:06 <kipple> indeed
12:10:09 <sedimin> for example, the 2006 contest will end on 31.12.2006
12:10:20 <sedimin> and in january, the decision will be made
12:11:09 <kipple> in january there is a limited time when people can nominate entries. When the nominations are over, everybody gets to vote
12:11:22 <sedimin> yes
12:11:33 <sedimin> so maybe in february, there'll be results
12:20:44 <sedimin> hm. there should be some music-generating language. I just like chip-tunes
12:21:05 <sedimin> there should be no console output, just the sound
12:46:37 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
12:57:01 -!- Keymaker has joined.
12:57:32 <Keymaker> hmm, yes, gregorr's idea of everyone being judges in the comp sounds good
12:58:06 <Keymaker> but personally i'd rather have some more limited competition time, that's for example a month or two
13:00:52 <Keymaker> personally i'd limit it to one esolang per person. otherwise people just whip up languages like maniacs and don't plan them that well or program in them that much as they would if they are only limited to one. or at least that's what i think
13:01:11 <Keymaker> but either the way, i really would like to see something!
13:23:39 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
13:38:55 -!- tokigun has joined.
13:39:02 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:49:34 -!- tokigun has joined.
14:00:26 <SimonRC> cool optical illusion --> http://www.johnsadowski.com/big_spanish_castle.html
14:00:26 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:11:44 -!- tokigun has joined.
14:21:26 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:22:36 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:23:06 <ihope_> So... no staff members on?
14:47:55 -!- tokigun has joined.
15:04:36 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:20:29 -!- tokigun has joined.
15:24:39 -!- pgimeno has quit ("This is the default quit message").
15:26:07 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:26:59 -!- pgimeno has joined.
15:42:01 -!- tokigun has joined.
15:47:42 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:52:10 <SimonRC> ihope_: why would there be?
15:58:04 -!- tokigun has joined.
16:08:40 -!- tokigun has quit (Success).
16:19:02 -!- tokigun has joined.
16:25:43 <ihope_> Why not?
16:29:44 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:39:17 -!- sedimin has joined.
16:40:07 -!- tokigun has joined.
16:45:02 -!- sedimin has left (?).
16:45:08 -!- sedimin has joined.
16:51:51 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:18:19 -!- tokigun has joined.
17:22:51 -!- ChanServ has quit (Shutting Down).
17:23:24 -!- ChanServ has joined.
17:23:24 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
17:27:03 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:48:04 -!- tokigun has joined.
17:50:02 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:59:35 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
18:00:10 <sedimin_> ...again idenfity instead of identify :/
18:01:06 -!- tokigun has joined.
18:02:40 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:13:12 -!- tokigun has joined.
18:13:16 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:16:23 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:20:09 <sedimin_> nice one :: http://dubwise.ic.cz/pix/ms_zacina.jpg
18:21:50 <kipple> haha
18:22:36 <sedimin_> my GF must be happy that I don't like football ;)
18:43:28 * SimonRC wonders what she is *actually* holding (as opposed to what is being suggested).
18:44:45 <kipple> huh? any reason to believe those two are not the same?
18:46:22 <SimonRC> good point
18:48:36 -!- tokigun has joined.
18:49:07 <sedimin_> ...
18:59:19 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:09:47 -!- tokigun has joined.
19:20:29 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:21:23 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
19:30:53 -!- tokigun has joined.
19:32:26 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:40:27 <SimonRC> # Ooh, mah name is, #   # Ooh mah name is, #   # Ooh, mah name is, #   # `/bin/hostname` #  --  _My name is `/bin/hostname`_, by  slim.shady.com
19:40:30 <SimonRC> :-D
19:41:20 * wildhalcyon give simon one clap.
19:41:49 * SimonRC hopes everyone at least *gets* the joke.
19:43:24 <SimonRC> b(C):-b(succ(C))   -- Smiley speaking PROLOG (to go with the perl, COBOL, LISP, etc smileys)
19:43:37 <kipple> hmm. the world really needs an esolang based on rap ;)
19:43:48 <SimonRC> space would be forbidden
19:44:30 <SimonRC> perl: :-@n8P@8p7*@*@BP{B)(98'[`2&^58}]7b9[] COBOL: COLON SUBTRACT OPENING PARENTHESIS
19:44:51 <SimonRC> LISP: :-((()())(())())
19:47:34 <GregorR> Woah, that castle illusion is amazing 8-X
19:47:40 <GregorR> It's in perfect, brilliant color ...
19:47:43 <SimonRC> I know
19:48:37 <SimonRC> It's an effect of certain color receptors becoming tierd, and your brain overintepreting the resulting coloured blobs.
19:49:37 <sedimin_> :)
19:50:10 <sedimin_> is this a smiley: <> ?
19:50:15 <wildhalcyon> Its actually the best one of those illusions that I've seen. I think it has to do with the way the color arranged in the picture.
19:50:37 <SimonRC> TV (in Britain) transmits hue, intensity, and brighness is its 3 channels IIRC.  The horizontal resolution of the color is much less than that of the brightness, but you don't notice it unless you look for it, buy the same principle as the second cause of the castle effect.
19:51:00 <SimonRC> you brain assumes that the brighness boundaries correspond to the same set of objects as the color boundaries.
19:51:12 <SimonRC> sedimin_: dunno
19:51:26 <SimonRC> have any of you seen the evil smiley?
19:51:35 <SimonRC> it looks like this
19:51:37 <SimonRC> :>
19:51:54 <SimonRC> "Why is it evil?", I hear you ask.
19:52:05 <sedimin_> go on :)
19:52:17 <sedimin_> it reminds me shell prompt :/
19:52:19 <SimonRC> well if you pick a file, say foo.txt, the you execute the command
19:52:23 <SimonRC> :> foo.txt
19:52:36 <SimonRC> foo.txt will be turned into an empty file!
19:52:43 <sedimin_> hehe
19:53:30 <SimonRC> : is the null command in bash
19:53:49 <ihope_> Null command? You mean cat or the no-input-no-output program?
19:53:57 <sedimin_> deceptive ;)
19:54:35 <SimonRC> ihope_: cat is idenity
19:58:51 -!- tokigun has joined.
20:00:49 <ihope_> What's the "numeric" value of EOF, generally?
20:01:06 <kipple> I don't think there is such a thing
20:01:13 <ihope_> Um.
20:01:20 <ihope_> Okay.
20:01:26 <kipple> -1 is quite common
20:01:41 <ihope_> But this language doesn't have a -1.
20:01:56 <ihope_> Ah well. I'll have this cat program just ignore EOF, then.
20:03:23 <kipple> what language?
20:03:23 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:04:02 <ihope_> Pointy.
20:05:13 <wildhalcyon> Isn't EOF 0 sometimes too?
20:05:22 <wildhalcyon> like, for string data
20:05:41 <kipple> well, then it is the end of a string, not a file, so it's not EOF
20:06:14 <wildhalcyon> oh, right
20:06:16 <ihope_> 0 for EOF would be convenient, as this language is more-or-less a souped-up Minsky machine.
20:06:37 <kipple> the pointy article doesn't say anything about the width of the memory cells. are you saying they can't be negative?
20:06:50 <ihope_> They can be any non-negative number.
20:07:36 <kipple> does the INP function read a byte, or a larger number?
20:07:59 <wildhalcyon> for ASCII its 4 I think.
20:08:14 <ihope_> Well, just how values are input and output isn't defined.
20:08:33 -!- tokigun has joined.
20:09:13 <sedimin_> so
20:09:17 <kipple> if its returns a byte you could for instance define 256 as EOF
20:09:25 <ihope_> Yep, you could.
20:09:32 <sedimin_> in windows it works with 255 (-1)
20:09:40 <sedimin_> IIRC
20:09:53 <ihope_> Well, but 255 /= -1.
20:10:01 <ihope_> Unless you're talking bytes here.
20:10:08 <sedimin_> yes, when I'm talking bytes
20:10:20 <kipple> well, there is no -1 in Pointy anyway
20:10:27 <sedimin_> but there is 255
20:10:58 <kipple> yes, but that should not be EOF, because the input might contain 255
20:11:04 <ihope_> But Pointy memory doesn't hold bytes.
20:11:13 <sedimin_> hmm
20:11:36 <ihope_> I'm just saying that there's no especially good way to store negative values in Pointy memory.
20:11:40 <sedimin_> i was solving exactly this problem few days ago with omgrofl
20:12:13 <ihope_> You can say that an even number x represents x/2 and that an odd number y represents -(y+1)/2, but that's a bit "weird".
20:12:29 <kipple> EOF should be a number that INP will never return, except when the file is ended. If there is no such number you're out of luck ;)
20:12:32 <sedimin_> when the input of cat program was redirected from file, it worked - it terminated on the end of file
20:12:39 <ihope_> There, your number line would be 9, 7, 5, 3, 1, 0, 2, 4, 6, 8...
20:12:58 <sedimin_> but when I input came from keyboard, and I tried to terminate output with ctrl+z, it did nothing
20:13:23 <ihope_> Now, a nice way to do things is to have 0 represent EOF, then increment every actual character that goes in.
20:13:38 <kipple> that would work
20:13:52 <ihope_> Some guys who have ASCII memorized would probably get annoyed, but who cares about them? :-P
20:14:17 <kipple> so immediately after you INP, you should always DEC. Then you automatically get a jump too on EOF
20:14:26 <wildhalcyon> If we're talking esolangs, if someone DOES have the ascii table memorized you SHOULD annoy them.
20:14:57 <kipple> the ASCII table is irrelevant anyway when you're dealing with binary data
20:15:15 <ihope_> An alternative to all this is just to let INP do a jump as well.
20:15:35 <kipple> that is also a very good idea
20:16:06 <kipple> now you're thinking outside the box :)
20:17:44 <ihope_> If memory cells are bounded, you can even have INC do a "failure jump".
20:18:28 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:19:45 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
20:24:10 <sedimin_> hm. is it Hello, world! or Hello, World?
20:24:24 <sedimin_> with capital W or without?
20:24:40 <kipple> without.
20:24:40 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:24:47 <kipple> but does it really matter....?
20:25:07 <GregorR> The original was "HELLO WORLD"
20:25:13 <GregorR> But usually it's "Hello, world!" now.
20:27:06 <kipple> according to the 'pedia the original was "hello, world"
20:28:10 <GregorR> *snaps*
20:28:15 <GregorR> Well, whatever X-P
20:29:08 <wildhalcyon> What's your favorite fixed-width fonts?
20:30:58 <sedimin_> Courier new
20:31:33 <wildhalcyon> I never really liked Courier
20:32:42 <sedimin_> why?
20:33:32 <sedimin_> btw - ihope - there can't be comments in Pointy?
20:33:34 <GregorR> It's sort of blocky.
20:33:46 <sedimin_> yes, i happen to like the blockiness :)
20:34:03 <ihope_> sedimin_: semicolons make nice comment markers, not that I myself like them :-P
20:34:13 <sedimin_> also like blocky smilies :]
20:34:35 <sedimin_> ihope: but you did not mention it, did you?
20:34:42 <ihope_> wildhalcyon: by Courier, do you mean Courier, or Courier New?
20:35:11 <ihope_> sedimin_: well, I did use a comment or two in those example programs, didn't I?
20:37:00 <wildhalcyon> Umm, I guess both
20:37:18 <wildhalcyon> Although to be honest, Im not entirely sure what the differences are.
20:38:22 <sedimin_> let me show you
20:40:36 <ihope_> Ooh, the suspense...
20:40:43 <sedimin_> :))
20:40:49 <sedimin_> i forgot :_
20:40:57 <wildhalcyon> lol
20:41:05 -!- tokigun has joined.
20:41:29 <wildhalcyon> I like this one: http://home.student.uu.se/j/jowi4905/fonts/
20:41:50 <kipple> stay tuned for the exciting conlusion to this typographical thriller
20:43:02 <kipple> wildhalcyon: that one looks nice!
20:43:27 <wildhalcyon> Its pretty easy to read too, which is handy for esolangs
20:44:02 <kipple> unfortunately it has lousy support for international characters.. :(
20:44:37 <wildhalcyon> Yes, it does
20:44:50 <sedimin_> ...
20:45:04 <kipple> hah,  "easy to read" and esolangs doesn't belong in the same sentence
20:45:06 <SimonRC> I want a fixed-width font that has a tiny pixel box, and does every charachter in the BMP.
20:45:07 <sedimin_> and so it happens, that I can't find original Courier font on my PC :)
20:45:22 <SimonRC> Except for the chinese ones
20:45:25 <SimonRC> (maybe)
20:45:37 <sedimin_> I know it is somewhere in my win3.1 install somewhere
20:45:40 <sedimin_> :/
20:45:47 <SimonRC> BTW, Chinese chars are usually double-width.
20:45:58 <sedimin_> really?
20:45:59 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:46:02 <sedimin_> never used them..
20:46:08 <SimonRC> which a good terminal program can handle
20:46:12 <wildhalcyon> http://www.dafont.com/mono-spatial.font
20:46:15 <sedimin_> http://www.fonts.com/images/products/closeup/012277OPN.gif
20:46:17 <SimonRC> well, urxvt can handle
20:46:19 <sedimin_> this is courier
20:46:27 <SimonRC> and w3m can cope with double-with chars
20:46:28 <fizzie> I use DejaVu Sans Mono for my fixed-width needs.
20:47:08 <ihope_> So why does Chinese have so many characters?
20:47:19 <SimonRC> because they use logographs
20:47:35 * SimonRC hunts for the really good explanition he found
20:47:51 <sedimin_> you know
20:47:58 <sedimin_> there are many chinese people, so many characters
20:47:59 <wildhalcyon> To confuse and punish westerners
20:48:18 <wildhalcyon> Deja Vu is nice too
20:48:25 <wildhalcyon> Nice enough for me to download at least :-D
20:48:26 <SimonRC> here is a really good expn:   http://www.zompist.com/yingzi/yingzi.htm
20:48:57 <sedimin_> http://rafb.net/paste/results/9O4I2V92.html
20:49:02 <sedimin_> ->hello world in pointy
20:49:40 <kipple> hum. SV Basic Manual renders horribly in un-bold on my system :(
20:49:53 <ihope_> Hmm, the use of pointers doesn't really make it any shorter, but that's a nice demonstration of how pointers work.
20:50:04 <sedimin_> yes
20:50:10 <sedimin_> that was in my mind when writing it
20:52:34 <fizzie> DejaVu is basically the Bitstream font, but with more characters. (Doesn't have CJK, but there's really no need to have them and latin-like letters in the same font, sensible systems can pick them up from other fonts if necessary.)
20:53:26 <fizzie> If one happens to like 8x16 pixel fonts (as opposed to something that can be anti-aliased), there's that "unifont" thing, http://czyborra.com/unifont/
20:56:53 <fizzie> (Oh, and I used the bitmap font from http://openlab.jp/efont/ before I realized that this computing device renders screenfuls of anti-aliased text (even with Freetype) fast enough; but it doesn't really have very large unicode coverage.)
20:58:50 <fizzie> Admittedly about the only non-ISO-8859-1/15 letters I've used in IRC have been λ and ∈.
20:59:06 <sedimin_> :)
20:59:23 <sedimin_> 8x16 fonts have their magic
21:18:29 -!- tokigun has joined.
21:28:32 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:34:20 <ihope_> ∈looks really ugly here, λ looks really nice, and everything else is sort of in-between.
21:35:10 <ihope_> I expect whoever made the ∈ thing over here didn't really put much time into it :-P
21:37:55 <fizzie> It looks rather out-of-place here too.
21:38:53 <ihope_> Say, I forgot I added a /partall command to my client.
21:39:24 -!- ihope_ has left (?).
21:39:35 -!- ihope_ has joined.
21:39:39 -!- tokigun has joined.
21:43:24 -!- Keymaker has joined.
21:43:48 <Keymaker> i can't believe how this prolan/m task can be done
21:44:44 <Keymaker> i just can't figure out a way how to get the end result back to number form and print it out, yet avoid it starting the program again by matching the digits just like when started..
21:45:58 <Keymaker> hey
21:46:00 <Keymaker> haha!
21:46:09 <ihope_> ?
21:46:09 <Keymaker> i think i just got it while i was writing my question :D
21:46:17 <ihope_> Heh.
21:46:24 <Keymaker> :)
21:46:41 <Keymaker> yes, of course!
21:46:49 <Keymaker> i'm so stupid.. :D
21:49:20 <GregorR> I concur.
21:49:24 <GregorR> I mean, what are we talking about?
21:49:33 <ihope_> PROLAN/M?
21:50:07 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:50:08 <ihope_> By the way, what am I supposed to do if I want my Thue program to handle things that have ::= in them
21:50:20 <ihope_> and such?
21:50:42 <Keymaker> you can't handle those on left side,
21:50:51 <Keymaker> but you can always convert ::= to something other
21:51:00 <Keymaker> such as "aab" for example :)
21:51:03 <ihope_> I wish my enter key weren
21:51:11 <ihope_> 't so easy to press accidentally. :-P
21:51:14 <Keymaker> :D
21:53:23 <ihope_> !help
21:53:26 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:53:28 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
21:53:54 <ihope_> !bf8 +.[+.] >:-)
21:53:58 <EgoBot> <CTCP>
21:54:08 <ihope_> Aww.
22:07:39 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:11:36 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:16:31 -!- calamari has joined.
22:18:17 <Keymaker> hey calamari
22:18:28 <calamari> hi Keymaker
22:24:58 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:51:29 -!- calamari has joined.
22:54:07 <wildhalcyon> I keep putting CRAWL off to try to devleop esolangs that are easier to write interpreters for
22:55:19 <wildhalcyon> CRAWL requires GUI stuff
22:55:33 <wildhalcyon> and probably some networking stuff
22:59:49 <Keymaker> hehe
23:00:00 <Keymaker> i'm currently busy with this prolan/m..
23:00:07 <wildhalcyon> Still working on that?
23:00:16 <wildhalcyon> Man, its INFURIATING!
23:00:26 <Keymaker> yeah
23:00:35 <Keymaker> too bad i haven't had much time yet, i've been "working"
23:00:58 <Keymaker> but finally have some spare time ;)
23:01:45 <Keymaker> i'm hoping to have something done this week. unless something bizarre happens
23:01:54 <Keymaker> something=this program
23:02:06 <wildhalcyon> there we go
23:02:08 <wildhalcyon> :-)
23:02:11 <Keymaker> :)
23:03:21 <Keymaker> currently i'm writing somekind of plan of the program and techniques i'm going to use. this program probably won't be that optimized, however
23:03:41 <wildhalcyon> I wouldnt really know where to begin with optimization :-(
23:03:58 <Keymaker> heh, i'm happy just to get it working :)
23:04:04 <wildhalcyon> exactly
23:11:17 -!- wildhalcyon_ has joined.
23:11:31 <wildhalcyon_> grrr. *curses*
23:12:01 <wildhalcyon_> I hate Java
23:12:37 <wildhalcyon_> Its super slow and eats up enourmous resources doing just about nothing, then it freezes my browser.
23:12:52 <Keymaker> hehe
23:13:08 <Keymaker> yeah, it doesn't sound too good
23:14:22 <wildhalcyon_> It needs to get replaced by something better.
23:14:41 <Keymaker> that should eventually happen
23:16:14 <wildhalcyon_> Wow, it appears that while my computer was freezing, I was having a conversation with myself on IRC. none of it is in the logs
23:19:02 <wildhalcyon_> my biggest issue with that problem right now is that there doesn't seem to be any way to tell when something has reached the "end" of the string on the left-hand side. So my solution always ends up with some garbage there
23:21:52 <Keymaker> solution to what?
23:21:55 <Keymaker> prolan/m?
23:22:29 <wildhalcyon_> yeah, the prolan/m addition problem
23:22:42 <Keymaker> a
23:29:19 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:34:00 <SimonRC> wildhalcyon_: remember, the proof that PROLAN/M is Turing-complete is a *constructive* proof.
23:34:21 <SimonRC> AHA!
23:34:27 <wildhalcyon_> what do you mean?
23:35:00 <SimonRC> if a pattern didn't match last time, then it;s not going to match this time, unless the new match are overlaps the most recent modification.
23:35:10 <SimonRC> wildhalcyon_: look at the wiki
23:35:34 <wildhalcyon_> Uh huh...?
23:35:38 -!- wildhalcyon_ has changed nick to wildhalcyon.
23:36:54 <SimonRC> there is an explanation of how to prove it, referring to Thue (very similar), which can be shown to be turing-complete
23:37:23 * SimonRC types a long line outlining how to solve the problem
23:37:35 <SimonRC> oh, wait, waht's the input format and output format?
23:38:20 <wildhalcyon> input: <number>+<number>=? (minus the <>)
23:38:33 <wildhalcyon> output: <number>+<number>=<sum>
23:38:42 <SimonRC> okaaaay
23:38:51 <Keymaker> i should perhaps quit, i don't want to see any solutions :P
23:39:23 <Keymaker> so, goodbye :)
23:39:28 <SimonRC> step 1: write turing machine to solve problem
23:39:40 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
23:39:44 <SimonRC> step 2: turn turing machine into set of PROLAN/M steps
23:39:51 -!- Keymaker has joined.
23:39:57 <SimonRC> heh
23:39:58 <SimonRC> step 2: turn turing machine into set of PROLAN/M steps
23:40:11 <Keymaker> :)
23:40:12 <wildhalcyon> Hmm, see, nothing to worry about keymaker
23:40:16 <Keymaker> yeah
23:40:29 <wildhalcyon> my solution is: Step 1: Get Keymaker to do it
23:40:34 <SimonRC> actually, PROLAN/M is slightly more powerful than a TM; you can insert cells
23:40:35 <Keymaker> and my way is different, anyway ;)
23:40:38 <Keymaker> d'oh!
23:41:40 <Keymaker> more powerful or not, it's a lot more difficult to program in than the turing tarpits i've seen
23:41:56 <SimonRC> the ? is very useful as it allows the machine to tell the difference between a solved problem and an unolved problem
23:42:06 <Keymaker> yeah
23:42:32 <Keymaker> that's what i realized a few hours(?) ago just when i was going to complain about it :D
23:42:41 <Keymaker> otherwise this would be impossible
23:42:55 <wildhalcyon> yeah
23:43:07 <SimonRC> you turn the ? into a tape head, which looks like: [asdf], where asdf is the TM state.
23:44:03 <SimonRC> then you turn each cell in the (extended) TM rule table into a transformation rule.

2006-06-12:

00:20:23 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:20:46 -!- CXI has joined.
00:44:27 <Keymaker> well, bye
00:44:35 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
00:48:15 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
00:49:50 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:12:28 -!- calamari has joined.
01:15:17 * SimonRC goes.  (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/MilliHelen)
02:11:23 <ihope_> Okay. So I'm wanting to send an email to my Spanish teacher, thanking him for the teaching, but I have no idea what to say...
02:18:29 <GregorR> ¡HOLA SEÑOR!  MUCHOS GRACIAS POR LA TEACHO DE LA SPANISH!  YO TIENO MUCHO SPANISH NOW!
02:18:52 <ihope_> "Tieno"?
02:19:00 <ihope_> Eh, close enough :-)
02:21:20 <GregorR> No, I'm not just incompetent, I know that 'tengo' is the correct conjugation :P
02:21:36 <ihope_> Ah.
02:30:36 <ihope_> Okay, I got the "Hola, Sr. Profesor!" down. What next?
02:37:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:38:05 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Bedtime").
02:38:41 <GregorR> Yo deseo tus bebés.
02:41:40 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
03:28:32 <wildhalcyon> Gregor! You what to my what?!... MALO!!!
03:28:55 <GregorR> I said "I want your babies"
03:29:32 <wildhalcyon> I knew babies, but deseo was over my head a little
03:29:38 <wildhalcyon> and to think Im married to a puerto rican
03:31:47 <GregorR> lol
03:59:23 -!- thematrixeatsyou has joined.
03:59:30 <thematrixeatsyou> 0"!olleh">#,_@
04:00:05 <thematrixeatsyou> !help
04:00:07 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
04:00:09 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
04:00:23 <thematrixeatsyou> !help befunge
04:00:25 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program>  Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
04:00:47 <thematrixeatsyou> !befunge 0"!olleh">#,_@
04:00:49 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:02:03 <GregorR> Hm
04:02:09 * GregorR wonders why that didn't work >_O
04:02:45 <GregorR> Hahaha, I renamed it without updating !help
04:02:50 <GregorR> !funge93 0"!olleh">#,_@
04:02:53 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
04:03:10 <GregorR> Not that it worked anyway :P
04:03:27 <thematrixeatsyou> thx
04:03:33 <thematrixeatsyou> getting into befunge
04:03:41 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 0"!olleh">#,_@
04:03:43 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
04:04:05 <thematrixeatsyou> dunno why it just gave me an e
04:04:16 <GregorR> You can also use !funge93 <url> by the way
04:04:22 <thematrixeatsyou> k
04:04:26 <thematrixeatsyou> hold on
04:04:41 <thematrixeatsyou> what does _ do with your interpreter?
04:04:53 <GregorR> It's not my interpreter :P
04:04:58 <GregorR> So I really don't know.
04:05:09 <GregorR> EgoBot is just a compilation of interpreters written by other people with an IRC bot wrapper.
04:05:34 <thematrixeatsyou> ok
04:05:35 <GregorR>    bef.c - The Original Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger in ANSI C
04:05:35 <GregorR>    v2.21 Sep 20 2004 Chris Pressey, Cat's-Eye Technologies
04:07:17 <thematrixeatsyou> this is better
04:07:21 <thematrixeatsyou> 0"!olleH">:#,_@
04:07:27 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge-93 0"!olleH">:#,_@
04:07:30 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 0"!olleH">:#,_@
04:07:31 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:07:33 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
04:07:47 <thematrixeatsyou> that's better
04:11:08 <thematrixeatsyou> what esoteric langs do you know? for me: befunge, brainfuck
04:12:22 <thematrixeatsyou> oh, and HQ9+. anyone can code HQ9+
04:15:43 <thematrixeatsyou> gonna go so ciao
04:16:26 -!- thematrixeatsyou has quit ("Forgot to say: i have made a more usable BF variant that uses functions.").
04:55:16 -!- Arrogant has joined.
05:52:14 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
05:52:21 <sedimin_> evening!
05:55:15 <fizzie> Morning! (07:55 am here.)
05:58:14 <Arrogant> Dead of night!
05:58:36 * Arrogant finally learned how to write a recursive decent parser
06:03:26 <GregorR> OK, time for lalr.
06:03:32 <GregorR> GO FOR IIIIIIIIIIT
06:05:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
06:08:14 <sedimin_> here is 7:07
06:08:16 <sedimin_> but,
06:10:38 -!- sedimin_ has left (?).
06:14:28 <Arrogant> GregorR, what?
06:16:18 <GregorR> If you made a recursive decent parser, it's probably LL(1): That is, left-recursive, one lookahead
06:16:47 <GregorR> Now, that's good enough for almost every language there is (with the notable exception, IIRC, of C++), but not as powerful as LALR, which is what YACC uses.
06:17:01 <Arrogant> Yeah, LL(1)
06:17:01 <GregorR> Long story short, I only told you to write an LALR parser because nobody in their right mind writes one by hand :)
06:17:14 <Arrogant> Ah
06:17:57 <Arrogant> If I were in my right mind, would I be here?
06:18:48 <GregorR> Nope 8-D
06:54:15 -!- tokigun has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:46 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
08:59:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:34:29 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
11:24:49 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
13:39:33 -!- jix has joined.
14:08:53 -!- nooga has joined.
14:10:25 <nooga> hihohiho
14:12:55 <nooga> o
14:12:57 <nooga> no on hir
14:13:24 <nooga> joo r no hir - joo r elswer
15:40:47 <SimonRC> S V F X
15:47:09 -!- nooga has quit.
15:47:41 -!- ihope has joined.
16:08:14 -!- ihope has changed nick to gJOq78.
16:08:33 -!- gJOq78 has changed nick to ihope.
16:09:53 -!- kipple has joined.
17:05:10 -!- EagleBot has joined.
17:05:26 <ihope> The name similarity is pure coincidence.
17:06:37 <ihope> Now, if the two bots ever get in a bot war, this'll happen:
17:06:39 * EagleBot forfeits
17:06:41 <ihope> :-P
17:30:56 <SimonRC> ?help
17:30:58 <SimonRC> @help
17:31:00 <SimonRC> !help
17:31:02 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
17:31:03 <SimonRC> .help
17:31:04 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
17:31:09 <SimonRC> hmm
17:31:10 <ihope> That would be #help, if there were such a command.
17:31:24 <SimonRC> what does EagleBot do?
17:31:26 <ihope> EagleBot doesn't actually do anything yet.
17:31:33 <SimonRC> :-(
17:31:47 -!- EagleBot has quit ("Yet another update").
17:31:51 <SimonRC> are you going to put any terps on it yet?
17:31:57 <ihope> Terps?
17:32:01 <ihope> Oh, interpreters.
17:32:03 <SimonRC> interpreters
17:32:09 <ihope> Maybe sometime.
17:32:15 <SimonRC> what first, then?
17:32:35 <ihope> Right now I'm working on making the logs look more fancy.
17:33:05 <SimonRC> hmm, bah
17:33:36 <SimonRC> I need some kind of command that allows me to make it output arbitrary text.
17:33:45 <ihope> #raw?
17:33:50 <SimonRC> #raw foo
17:33:59 <ihope> Only I can use that right now, though :-P
17:34:03 <SimonRC> ihope: yeah, that would do
17:34:07 <SimonRC> hmm
17:34:18 <SimonRC> damnit, I want to create a bot loop!
17:34:49 <ihope> Heh.
17:36:50 <ihope> Okay, ping/pong and CTCP VERSION requests now show up nicer.
17:38:09 <ihope> Okay, now anybody can use #raw. Have fun.
17:38:57 -!- EagleBot has joined.
17:39:53 <ihope> !bf_txtgen #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!botloop"
17:40:23 <EgoBot> 260 ++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>>>-.<<++++++.>+.<+++++.>>---.++.<-----------------.++.>>+.<<++++.>>++++.++++++.------------.<--.+++.<+++++++++++++++.<----.----.+++++.>.<--.>++++.------.>---.>-------------.<+.<-.<---.+++++.--------.+++..+.>>+. [759]
17:40:46 <ihope> !daemon botloop bf ++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>>>-.<<++++++.>+.<+++++.>>---.++.<-----------------.++.>>+.<<++++.>>++++.++++++.------------.<--.+++.<+++++++++++++++.<----.----.+++++.>.<--.>++++.------.>---.>-------------.<+.<-.<---.+++++.--------.+++..+.>>+.
17:40:49 <EgoBot> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!botloop"
17:41:23 <ihope> Um, that's supposed to do something...
17:41:28 <ihope> Bleh.
17:41:32 <GregorR> Haha :P
17:41:44 <ihope> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh"
17:41:44 <EagleBot> Argh
17:42:00 <ihope> Did I forget to reload?
17:42:20 <ihope> #raw "QUIT"
17:42:21 -!- EagleBot has quit (Client Quit).
17:43:12 -!- EagleBot has joined.
17:43:14 <ihope> There.
17:43:56 <ihope> You guys do the rest. If these guys get into a loop, yell *really loudly* and I just might hear.
17:44:33 <ihope> Or send me a private message, or say my name, or something.
17:45:22 <GregorR> #raw "QUIT :We don't need two bots."
17:45:22 -!- EagleBot has quit (Client Quit).
17:45:34 <GregorR> That was easy.
17:48:03 <SimonRC> !sadol (4:C",224!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C
17:48:07 <EgoBot> #raw (4:C",224!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C
17:48:36 <SimonRC> hmm, bah
17:49:14 <SimonRC> not finished, anyway
17:59:57 <ihope> Hmm, how come the quit message there was "Client Quit"?
18:00:53 <ihope> !sadol (6:C",226!",216!sadol (6:C",226!C!C!",216!sadol (6:C",226!C!C
18:00:57 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 61, row: 1, col: 62)
18:01:02 <ihope> Yipe!
18:01:28 <ihope> !sadol (4:C",224!",216!sadol (4:C",224!C!C!",216!sadol (4:C",224!C!C
18:01:31 <EgoBot> !",216!sadol (4:C",224!C!sadol (4:C",224!",216!sadol (4:C",224!C!",216!sadol (4:C",224!C
18:01:48 <ihope> Odd, aye?
18:04:22 -!- EagleBot has joined.
18:04:39 <ihope> Okay. Now, somebody other than GregorR try to loop these guys :-P
18:05:43 <ihope> !sadol (4:C",224!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C
18:05:45 <EgoBot> #raw (4:C",224!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C!",214#raw (4:C",224!C!C
18:05:57 <ihope> Oops.
18:06:07 <ihope> That crashed EagleBot :-P
18:07:04 <SimonRC> bah, I forgot you need to stuff a privmsg in there
18:08:40 -!- EagleBot has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:09:37 -!- EagleBot has joined.
18:09:49 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
18:10:24 <sedimin_> hey there
18:12:04 <EagleBot> Hello.
18:13:02 <ihope> !daemon cat bf ,[.,]
18:13:16 <sedimin_> heh
18:13:27 <sedimin_> what will 'dog' look like in brainfuck? :)
18:13:49 <ihope> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \\\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw\\\"\""
18:13:50 <EagleBot> !cat #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw\""
18:13:53 <EgoBot> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw""
18:13:53 <EagleBot> !cat #raw
18:13:57 <EgoBot> #raw
18:13:58 <ihope> :-)
18:14:42 <sedimin_> :)
18:15:31 <ihope> !cat 99 \\ bottles \\ of \\ beer \\ on \\ the \\ wall
18:15:35 <EgoBot> 99 \ bottles \ of \ beer \ on \ the \ wall
18:15:37 <ihope> Suspicious...
18:16:26 <sedimin_> take one down and pass it all around!
18:16:37 <sedimin_> !cat 98 \\ bottles \\ of \\ beer \\ on \\ the \\ wall
18:16:41 <EgoBot> 98 \ bottles \ of \ beer \ on \ the \ wall
18:16:44 <ihope> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \\\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw\\\\\\\"\\\""
18:16:44 <EagleBot> !cat #raw \"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \\\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw\\\"\"
18:16:47 <EgoBot> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw \"PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw\""
18:16:47 <EagleBot> !cat #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw"
18:16:49 <EgoBot> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat #raw"
18:16:49 <EagleBot> !cat #raw
18:16:51 <EgoBot> #raw
18:17:00 <ihope> There we go.
18:23:58 <sedimin_> when did you first come at the 99 bottles program
18:25:31 <sedimin_> ?
18:26:02 <sedimin_> Cause almost nobody at my school knew it when I asked them, I thought it's very-well known...
18:26:02 <ihope> !cat \1ACTION foo\1
18:26:05 <EgoBot> 1ACTION foo1
18:26:10 <ihope> Eeh.
18:26:32 <ihope> !cat \SOHACTION foo\SOH
18:26:35 <EgoBot> SOHACTION fooSOH
18:27:05 <EagleBot> 1
18:27:11 <ihope> Oops.
18:27:14 <EagleBot> <CTCP>
18:27:33 <ihope> Eh, enough of that.
18:29:01 -!- tgwizard has joined.
18:30:11 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
18:30:43 -!- cmeme has joined.
18:34:37 * SimonRC listens to ISIHAC on Radio 4.
18:36:14 <SimonRC> It's funny!  http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/clue.shtml
18:56:17 -!- _coder_ has joined.
18:56:50 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:04:20 -!- sedimin has joined.
19:05:34 -!- juraj has joined.
19:06:27 -!- juraj has quit (Client Quit).
19:06:44 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
19:07:24 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Client Quit).
19:08:16 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
19:48:53 -!- sedimin has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:04:15 <ihope> Hmm...
20:05:21 <ihope> So there's this hypothetical programming language, and the only way to do an "if" is to get yourself into a superposition of all reasonable states, then prune off the ones that turn out to be wrong.
20:05:46 -!- cmeme has quit (No route to host).
20:07:31 -!- cmeme has joined.
20:23:32 * SimonRC goe's.
20:23:51 <SimonRC> ihope: (PROLOG)
20:24:03 <ihope> Oh yeah.
20:26:05 <GregorR> Woah, somebody significantly improved Glass' page ...
20:26:08 <GregorR> When did that happen?
20:28:40 <GregorR> !daemon test glass {M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!(_i)I!(_neof)(_i)e.?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_neof)(_i)l.?(_o)o.?(_neof)(_i)e.?<0>(_a)e.?=\]}
20:28:47 <GregorR> !test flar
20:28:50 <EgoBot> flar
20:28:54 <GregorR> !test floop
20:28:56 <EgoBot> floop
20:29:00 <GregorR> !undaemon test
20:29:02 <EgoBot> Process 2 killed.
20:29:07 <GregorR> !ps d
20:29:10 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon cat bf
20:29:12 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR: ps
20:29:16 <GregorR> !cat flarflar
20:29:18 <EgoBot> flarflar
20:29:30 <ihope> What did you think it would do? :-P
20:29:35 <GregorR> About that :P
20:33:20 <GregorR> Oerjan rawx 8-D
21:24:40 <ihope> ...Nothing's moving!
21:24:42 * ihope whimpers
21:25:54 <ihope> I'm sure this has happened before...
21:32:30 <kipple> according to some philosophies, everything has happened before.... (and will happen again)
21:32:53 <ihope> So the universe is reversible and finite?
21:55:50 <lament> and can be emulated by a SMETANA program
21:57:21 <ihope> You mean a SMATINY program?
22:05:23 <lament> No. a SMETANA program.
22:23:42 <ihope> Whoa...
22:23:51 <ihope> Prolog functors have degrees of freedom, don't they?
22:36:20 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:49:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:14:26 <ihope> Hmm, this straight-line linkage is pretty simple.
23:14:52 <ihope> Indeed, one does wonder why it took so long to create.
23:17:41 <ihope> A parallelogram on a straight line can produce another straight line. But a parallelogram on a circle can also create a straight line.
23:18:21 <ihope> You just have to keep it from rotating...
23:20:02 <ihope> That means that in addition to the radius, you need another fixed point that does this.
23:50:25 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).

2006-06-13:

00:08:55 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:14:34 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
00:23:22 -!- ihope has joined.
00:23:44 <ihope> There.
00:24:05 <ihope> I just spent a longish time completely filling a Sodaplay thingy with dots and springs.
00:24:20 <ihope> So now there's one big loop.
00:24:29 <ihope> Now I'm going to turn it into many triangles.
00:25:56 <ihope> Oops!
00:26:05 <ihope> I hit "simulate" instead of "construct.
00:28:42 <GregorR> *cough*
00:28:44 <GregorR> #raw QUIT
00:28:47 <GregorR> *cough*
00:28:52 <ihope> >:-)
00:29:00 <GregorR> Oops, was that not quite right, or did you fix it? :P
00:29:04 <GregorR> #raw "QUIT"
00:29:04 -!- EagleBot has quit.
00:29:07 <GregorR> Ah, that's it.
00:29:09 <ihope> What the...
00:29:12 <GregorR> XD
00:29:44 <ihope> Oh, silly me.
00:30:00 <ihope> I forgot the colon in front.
00:30:05 <GregorR> .#raw "PRIVMSG lilo :I WANT YOUR HOT BODY"
00:31:03 -!- EagleBot has joined.
00:31:19 <ihope> >:-), again.
00:31:51 <GregorR> #raw "PRIVMSG GregorR :I WANT YOUR HOT BODY"
00:32:01 <ihope> Eh!...
00:32:20 <GregorR> #raw "QUIT :You lose."
00:32:21 -!- EagleBot has quit (Client Quit).
00:33:00 <GregorR> :P
00:33:55 -!- EagleBot has joined.
00:33:56 <ihope> #raw "QUIT"
00:33:56 -!- EagleBot has quit (Client Quit).
00:34:05 * ihope scratches his head
00:34:39 <GregorR> Bahahaha
00:35:32 <ihope> Whoops!
00:36:10 <ihope> The hardest-to-find mistakes are always the most stupid ones.
00:36:56 -!- EagleBot has joined.
00:37:01 <ihope> Now it works, I think.
00:38:02 <GregorR> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEXSEXSEX"
00:38:09 <GregorR> :(
00:38:16 <ihope> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahaha"
00:38:16 <EagleBot> Muahaha
00:38:33 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:38:47 <GregorR> Hoi oerjan
00:38:54 <oerjan> hi gregorR
00:39:52 <ihope> !cat #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boink."
00:39:54 <EgoBot> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boink."
00:39:55 <EagleBot> Boink.
00:40:11 <oerjan> first time here
00:40:17 <GregorR> I figured.
00:40:25 <GregorR> And just noticed all the stuff you posted to Talk:Glass :P
00:40:37 <oerjan> right :-)
00:41:01 <oerjan> (first time in years i'm on irc, too)
00:41:06 <GregorR> Heh
00:42:01 <GregorR> So, I actually included an example that used the * syntax? 8-X
00:42:16 <GregorR> That's outdated syntax ... I don't think I ever even published that syntax before changing it to ? :P
00:42:50 <GregorR> OHOH
00:42:53 <GregorR> Sorry, misread the issue.
00:43:01 <oerjan> thought so :-)
00:43:04 <GregorR> Yeah, methods and variables are in totally different namespaces.
00:43:19 <GregorR> I should document that ... somewhere :P
00:43:23 <ihope> Heh.
00:43:31 <oerjan> except that if a variable exists, you cannot get to the method with the same name
00:43:46 <oerjan> is that a bug?
00:43:58 <GregorR> Yeah, that's a bug.
00:44:45 <GregorR> !glass {C[(c__) x 1 = ,][(inc) x x * <1> (_a)A! (_a)a.? =][(rx) x *][x x *]}{M[m(_c)C!(_c)x.?]}
00:45:07 <GregorR> Well, that did nothing X-P
00:45:14 <GregorR> !glass {C[(c__) x 1 = ,][(inc) x x * <1> (_a)A! (_a)a.? =][(rx) x *][x x *]}{M[m(_c)C!(_c)x.?(_o)O!"Test?"(_o)o.?]}
00:45:40 <ihope> Hmm...
00:45:48 <GregorR> Did I break EgoBot? 8-X
00:45:50 <ihope> !raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo"
00:45:53 <GregorR> Or wait, is that crashing :P
00:46:01 <GregorR> !glass {C[(c__) x 1 = ,][(inc) x x * <1> (_a)A! (_a)a.? =][(rx) x *][x x *]}{M[m?(_o)O!"Test?"(_o)o.?(_c)C!(_c)x.]}
00:46:01 <ihope> !cat Arr.
00:46:03 <EgoBot> Test?
00:46:04 <EgoBot> Arr.
00:46:08 <GregorR> !glass {C[(c__) x 1 = ,][(inc) x x * <1> (_a)A! (_a)a.? =][(rx) x *][x x *]}{M[m(_o)O!"Test?"(_o)o.?(_c)C!(_c)x.?]}
00:46:10 <EgoBot> Test?
00:46:16 <GregorR> Yup, that'd be glass crashing :(
00:46:33 <oerjan> same i discovered
00:47:15 <GregorR> >_>
00:47:27 <ihope> GregorR: looks like EgoBot's !raw command's overriding my daemon.
00:47:40 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Gregor wrote borked code :("(_o)o.?]}
00:47:43 <EgoBot> Gregor wrote borked code :(
00:47:47 <GregorR> ihope: Only I can use EgoBot's !raw command.
00:48:00 <GregorR> !raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like so.
00:48:00 <EgoBot> Like so.
00:48:12 <ihope> !quote "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well."
00:48:24 <ihope> ...
00:48:49 <ihope> Don't tell me that's taken, too.
00:49:17 <GregorR> !quote doesn't even do anything.
00:49:17 <oerjan> !help
00:49:19 <EgoBot> Huh?
00:49:21 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
00:49:22 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
00:49:58 <ihope> !grr "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe this works."
00:50:11 <GregorR> What are you trying to do, ihope ?
00:50:12 <ihope> Oh, of course.
00:50:20 <ihope> !grr #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe this works."
00:50:23 <EagleBot> Maybe this works.
00:50:44 <GregorR> >_O
00:50:47 <oerjan> hmm... how do you give egobot a befunge program? :-)
00:50:55 <ihope> Via a URL, I think.
00:50:58 <GregorR> Yup
00:51:05 <GregorR> !ps d
00:51:09 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon cat bf
00:51:10 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR: ps
00:51:41 <GregorR> This will crash:
00:51:43 <GregorR> !reload
00:51:44 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:52:09 -!- EgoBot has joined.
00:52:12 <GregorR> !help
00:52:15 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
00:52:17 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
00:52:20 <GregorR> Much better
00:52:39 <ihope> What happened?
00:52:51 <ihope> I mean... did that do anything?
00:52:58 <oerjan> befunge disappeared
00:53:09 <oerjan> and funge93 appeared
00:53:15 <ihope> Ah.
00:53:15 <GregorR> I just fixed !help
00:53:20 <GregorR> !befunge isn't the right command
00:53:23 <EgoBot> Huh?
00:53:23 <GregorR>  !funge93 is
00:53:27 <ihope> !funge93 "Boo"o
00:53:42 <ihope> Yeah, that was just a wild guess. Why?
00:54:41 <ihope> !funge93 "Boo",
00:54:45 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
00:55:18 <ihope> So !funge93 doesn't like one-dimensional program?
00:57:40 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
00:57:46 <GregorR-L> Well, time to reenable resource limitations.
00:58:05 * GregorR-L is amazed by how efficiently that hammered his machine.
00:58:52 <ihope> My Befunge program did?
00:58:56 <GregorR-L> Yup
00:59:25 <GregorR-L> But time now to go do my final.
00:59:30 <GregorR-L> The lack of EgoBot will be your punishment.
00:59:46 <oerjan> final? good luck
01:00:01 <oerjan> for me, time to go to bed
01:00:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("Leaving").
01:12:18 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:12:18 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:02:44 <ihope> My brother's playing a baseball game on his computer.
02:11:52 <ihope> Aww. This site doesn't let me use (|_|_||\/|$`/ as a password.
02:12:25 <ihope> It's one character too long!
02:34:35 <ihope> Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
02:34:37 <ihope> Tee hee...
02:34:47 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
02:57:04 -!- EagleBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:19:13 -!- GregorR has joined.
03:21:13 -!- EgoBot has joined.
03:21:18 <GregorR> !help
03:21:21 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:21:23 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:22:56 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
03:30:27 <GregorR> !bf +[>+]
03:30:31 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
03:30:34 <GregorR> ^^
03:30:52 <wildhalcyon> nice infinite loop
03:31:05 <GregorR> I was making sure that the resource limiting worked.
03:31:53 <wildhalcyon> oh, well, it seemed to do alright
03:32:07 <GregorR> Yup
04:22:02 -!- _coder_ has joined.
05:31:55 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
05:51:01 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving").
06:05:15 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
06:06:29 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Client Quit).
07:18:53 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
07:35:28 -!- calamari has joined.
07:52:26 -!- Arrogant has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:20:32 -!- CXII has joined.
08:21:02 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:30:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
08:59:11 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
09:00:32 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
09:30:48 -!- tgwizard has joined.
09:34:23 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
09:36:35 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
11:05:50 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
11:32:39 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
11:50:52 -!- CXII has changed nick to CXI.
11:56:16 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:06:36 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
12:38:27 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
13:06:01 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:22:07 -!- ihope has joined.
14:37:42 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:52:24 <ihope_> My quit message for yesterday was "¡Adiós!". Weird, eh? ;-)
14:52:26 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:53:14 -!- EagleBot has joined.
15:10:29 <fizzie> I see it as "¡Adiós!".
15:17:21 * SimonRC wonders if "Hate is a good thing" is a sensible line for an advert.
15:17:38 <SimonRC> OTOH, the song goes:
15:18:34 <SimonRC> # Hate something? #  # Change something. #  # Hate something?  Change something, #  # Make something better ... #  tec
15:18:38 <SimonRC> * etc
15:19:09 <SimonRC> It's for more-efficinet desiel engines.
15:23:04 <fizzie> Misread "dental engines"; wonder how _that'd_ work.
15:55:49 <SimonRC> <Dramatic chord crash>
15:56:09 <SimonRC> http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/BRC1/jsp/brcucontrol?site=pfs&task=internal&value=http://www.fakebankingsite.com/
15:57:27 <ihope_> SimonRC: ?
16:04:12 <SimonRC> look at the URL, then at its effect
16:04:54 <SimonRC> it can make any URl look like it belongs to barclays, if you are a machine looking at the URL alone
16:05:02 <ihope_> Ah.
16:05:18 <SimonRC> e.g. my uni's mailscanner
16:10:00 <SimonRC> Nnote to self: garbage collector should consider instruction pointer to be part of base set.
16:11:35 <ihope_> Was the instruction pointer garbage-collected?
16:11:40 <SimonRC> hehe
16:11:55 <SimonRC> no, I mean that running code might be garbage-collected
16:12:03 <SimonRC> and it didn't actually happen
16:12:40 <SimonRC> Are there any langs around that have functions but those functions can't return?
16:12:58 <ihope_> You mean you'd be stuck in the functions?
16:13:32 <SimonRC> welll...
16:13:47 <SimonRC> not if you made a tail-call...
16:13:55 <ihope_> Hmm?
16:14:02 <ihope_> Oh, yeah!
16:14:14 <SimonRC> if calling a function is either the last thing done or the function will v
16:14:23 <SimonRC> never return, you can tail-call
16:14:35 <ihope_> Just use callbacks.
16:14:40 <SimonRC> but evrything would have to be written in CPS, which is ugly :-)
16:14:47 <SimonRC> mwahahaha!
16:15:09 <ihope_> Instead of "do foo, call bar, do baz", you "do foo, call bar(baz)", and bar does baz.
16:15:16 <ihope_> Simple!
16:17:14 <SimonRC> ah, but that means that foo has to return
16:17:29 <SimonRC> so it becomes foo(bar(baz))
16:17:41 <SimonRC> and you may want a load of lambdas in there to re-arrange arguments
16:17:55 <SimonRC> hmm
16:18:27 <ihope_> Well, foo might not be a function.
16:18:31 <ihope_> Then again, maybe it is.
16:20:44 <ihope_> s x y z c = c ((x z) y z); k x y c = c x; i x c = c x
16:20:54 <ihope_> Then you build everything with s, k, and i.
16:22:16 * ihope_ ponders
16:23:54 -!- jix has joined.
16:25:38 <ihope_> So we have (t -> t1 -> t -> r) -> t1 -> t -> Cont r a, a -> t -> Cont r a, and a -> Cont r a.
16:31:15 -!- EagleBot has quit.
16:33:36 <ihope_> Oh, that should be (t -> t1 -> t -> a) -> t1 -> t -> Cont r a up there.
16:34:44 <ihope_> Hmm...
16:46:57 <SimonRC>  ah, waitamo...
16:47:02 <SimonRC> literals would be hard
16:47:24 <SimonRC> let us think of a literal as a function that takes no arguments and reutnrs a value, like in haskel
16:48:09 <SimonRC> now, er can't return values, but must use CPS, so a constant is represented by a function that calls its argument with a constant value
16:49:24 <SimonRC> so, we might add one and two and pass the result on by:
16:50:41 <SimonRC> 1(\x->2(\y->(\k-> +(x,y,k))))
16:51:12 <SimonRC> yeah, that equals 3(k)
16:54:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
17:27:30 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
17:44:47 -!- GregorR-W has changed nick to longest_nick_on_.
17:44:57 -!- longest_nick_on_ has changed nick to GregorR-W.
18:26:22 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
18:26:52 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Client Quit).
18:28:18 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
18:54:18 -!- calamari has joined.
18:56:34 <calamari> hi
18:56:41 <wildhalcyon> hey calamari
18:57:03 <calamari> hi wild'
18:57:10 <wildhalcyon> What's going on?
18:57:54 <calamari> not too much.. trying to get dns working in a chroot jail, so I thought I'd ask in ##linux
19:02:18 <wildhalcyon> hmmm, I didnt understand any of that so I'll just say "good luck!"
19:03:59 <ihope_> Oh, right.
19:04:08 <ihope_> 1(\x->2(\y->(\k-> +(x,y,k)))) doesn't make any sense. :-P
19:42:31 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
19:45:24 <sedimin_> hey
19:45:31 <wildhalcyon> hey\
19:46:34 -!- Arrogant has joined.
19:47:26 <sedimin_> how are things going?
19:47:43 <wildhalcyon> meh
19:55:26 <ihope_> Ack!
19:55:30 <ihope_> EagleBot beeped!
19:55:51 <ihope_> And it startled me... grr.
20:03:35 <GregorR-W> Dot dot dot.
20:03:48 <Arrogant> ihope you're alright
20:04:04 <GregorR-W> Hahahah puns r fun
20:04:47 * Arrogant bows
20:07:54 -!- EagleBot has joined.
20:08:02 <ihope_> Eh, it beeped again.
20:12:21 <Arrogant> Eh is not a word of surprise
20:12:28 <lament> Eh?
20:12:46 <Arrogant> You should be shrieking
20:12:47 <Arrogant> AH
20:13:45 <ihope_> Well, I wasn't using it as a word of surprise.
20:13:58 <Arrogant> Exactly the point.
20:14:14 <ihope_> It was the "I'm asleep; don't wake me up" kind of "eh".
20:17:06 -!- sedimin_ has left (?).
20:17:08 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
21:04:46 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
21:10:02 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:30:34 -!- mtve has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:16:19 <ihope_> I sold a hammer to some guy and now he's asking about 100 times what I paid for it.
22:16:25 <ihope_> Maybe 200 times; I don't know.
22:16:47 <ihope_> s/I paid/he paid/, and he paid a fair bit.
22:17:19 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
22:23:16 <wildhalcyon> a hammer huh?
22:23:24 <wildhalcyon> Why don't you just pick up a new one?
22:24:32 <ihope_> Hey, it's not just any hammer.
22:25:32 <GregorR-W> It's the Holy Hammer of Antwerp
22:26:06 <ihope_> Um.
22:26:15 <ihope_> Pretty much, yeah.
22:32:02 <lament> The Sacred Hammer Of Jesus
22:33:02 <ihope_> Did Jesus have a sacred hammer?
22:34:02 <GregorR-W> Well, he was a carpenter, and a lot of people would probably consider just about anything he ever touched sacred.
22:34:04 <GregorR-W> So I'd have to say ye.
22:34:05 <GregorR-W> *yes
22:34:28 <ihope_> He was a carpenter?
22:34:45 <GregorR-W> O_O
22:35:09 <GregorR-W> How can anyone in the western hemisphere not know that.
22:35:55 <ihope_> I take it I'm in the western hemisphere...
22:36:07 <GregorR-W> O_O
22:36:25 <GregorR-W> I am stunned.
22:37:17 <fizzie> http://www.kencollins.com/jesus-35.htm
22:37:24 <fizzie> "People commonly think that Jesus was a carpenter, but there is actually no evidence for that."
22:38:06 <GregorR-W> That moron is looking in the gospels.
22:38:11 <GregorR-W> It's HISTORICALLY proven that he was a carpenter.
22:38:15 <GregorR-W> Not MORONICALLY proven.
22:40:21 <ihope_> Indeed: "In the gospels, Jesus has disciples. Carpenters don’t have disciples."
22:40:38 <fizzie> "This is still a widely debated topic(25), however Geza Vermes(26) highlights an Aramaic use of the term carpenter/craftsman (naggar) to metaphorically describe a 'scholar' or 'learned man'."
22:40:39 <GregorR-W> BAHAHAHA
22:41:01 <GregorR-W> Your quotations aren't even from that page, where are you getting them from >_<
22:41:51 <ihope_> Okay, then.
22:41:59 <ihope_> "In the gospels, Jesus has disciples. Carpenters don’t have disciples"
22:42:05 <fizzie> 25. cf. Vincent Taylor, Mark, p.299f versus Cranfield, Mark, p.194f; 26. Geza Vermes, Jesus the Jew, p.21. Cf. D.Flusser, Jesus, Herder & Herder, New York, 1969, p.20; yYeb.9b; yKid.66a, bAZ 50b..
22:42:20 <fizzie> They are from: another page.
22:42:53 <fizzie> With a bit less "the bible says so"-y approach.
22:43:27 <GregorR-W> And then, Gregor went back to work :P
22:43:31 <fizzie> (Managed to crash my Firefox.)
22:43:53 <GregorR-W> Bravo.
22:44:10 <fizzie> (Must've been all that piety; isn't Firefox written by those heathen communist open-source people?)
22:48:37 <GregorR-W> You forgot to make 'atheist' explicit.
22:48:42 <GregorR-W> I mean, of course, it's implied by 'communist'
22:48:47 <GregorR-W> But it's important to make it explicit.
22:49:28 <fizzie> Hmm; perhaps the 'heathen' is then superfluous and could be replaced with 'atheist'.
22:49:55 <GregorR-W> True
22:53:53 <fizzie> Interesting: WordNet defines the noun 'heathen' as "a person who does not acknowledge your God", but the adjective 'heathen' as "not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam".
22:54:34 <ihope_> What about just "heath"?
22:56:10 <GregorR-W> lol
22:56:19 <GregorR-W> Didn't heathen used to mean Norse specifically?
22:57:21 <fizzie> 1. heath -- (a low evergreen shrub of the family Ericaceae; has small bell-shaped pink or purple flowers)
22:57:25 <fizzie> 2. heath, heathland -- (a tract of level wasteland; uncultivated land with sandy soil and scrubby vegetation)
22:57:46 <ihope_> It doesn't even mention candy!
22:58:16 <GregorR-W> That'd be Heath, not heath.
22:58:33 <GregorR-W> Plus, brand names usu aren't in the dictionary.
22:58:40 <GregorR-W> In fact, that's a quick way to lose a trademark in some countries.
22:59:05 <fizzie> There are some wordified brand names here.
22:59:08 <fizzie> 2. Xerox, xerographic copier, Xerox machine -- (duplicator that copies graphic matter by the action of light on an electrically charged photoconductive insulating surface in which the latent image is developed with a resinous powder)
22:59:18 <fizzie> No Google yet.
23:00:04 <GregorR-W> Yeah, brand names which have generified into general usage are usually in, but they're hardly brand names then (if somebody says they're going to go Xerox something, they're probably going over to their HP faxer-copier ;) )
23:00:27 <fizzie> Oh, my locally installed WordNet is some ages-old version. From the new one:
23:00:28 <fizzie> Noun
23:00:29 <fizzie>     * S: (n) Google (a widely used search engine that uses text-matching techniques to find web pages that are important and relevant to a user's search)
23:00:32 <fizzie> Verb
23:00:35 <fizzie>     * S: (v) google (search the internet (for information) using the Google search engine) "He googled the woman he had met at the party"; "My children are googling all day"
23:01:47 <fizzie> (Time to sleep; 01am here, and should be at work before 09am "tomorrow" for a meeting-thing.)
23:01:59 <ihope_> !
23:02:02 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:03:54 <GregorR-W> :P
23:04:16 <GregorR-W> !EgoBot responds to everything that starts with an '!', isn't that dumb?
23:04:20 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:04:26 <lament> !
23:04:30 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:04:31 <lament> !
23:04:34 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:04:35 <lament> !
23:04:38 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:04:39 <lament> !
23:04:42 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:04:48 <ihope_> !kill lament
23:04:50 <EgoBot> No such process!
23:04:52 <ihope_> Aww.
23:04:55 <lament> !
23:04:58 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:04:58 <wildhalcyon> lol
23:05:13 <lament> !Do you know anything other than "Huh?"
23:05:16 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:05:19 <ihope_> !daemon lament bf +[,[-]+]
23:05:24 <ihope_> !ps d
23:05:26 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon lament bf
23:05:28 <EgoBot> 2 ihope_: ps
23:05:29 <ihope_> !kill 1
23:05:30 <EgoBot> Process 1 killed.
23:05:31 <ihope_> >:-)
23:05:34 <lament> !Oh magic eightball, does she love me?
23:05:38 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:05:53 <GregorR-W> !undaemon lament
23:05:56 <EgoBot> Process 1 killed.
23:06:03 <ihope_> Um, huh?
23:06:26 <GregorR-W> If you don't undaemon it, !lament will still send output to whatever proc 1 is at the time :P
23:06:49 <ihope_> It'll... you mean...
23:06:51 <GregorR-W>  !kill doesn't know about daemons.
23:08:20 <ihope_> !daemon undaemon bf +[Of course, the "real" !undaemon probably [-]+] takes precedence over this one.
23:08:21 <lament> !lament
23:08:24 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:08:49 <lament> !Huh
23:08:52 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:08:55 <ihope_> !daemon lament bf +[,[-]+]
23:09:03 <GregorR-W> !undaemon undaemon
23:09:06 <EgoBot> Process 1 killed.
23:09:10 <ihope_> !lament This program does very little.
23:09:20 <GregorR-W> Also, doesn't output crap :P
23:09:24 <ihope_> !lament It takes input, then discards it.
23:09:28 <GregorR-W> !undaemon lament
23:09:30 <EgoBot> Process 2 killed.
23:09:34 <GregorR-W> Are you making fun of lament?
23:09:36 <GregorR-W> ;)
23:09:42 <ihope_> Maybe...
23:09:44 <lament> !daemon lament bf +[,..+]
23:09:52 <lament> !lament I hate you all
23:09:56 <EgoBot> II  hhaattee  yyoouu  aallll
23:10:01 <GregorR-W> !daemon cat ,[.,]
23:10:05 <GregorR-W> !cat Flarflar
23:10:08 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:10:15 <GregorR-W> ...
23:10:17 <GregorR-W> Oh, whoops XD
23:10:19 <GregorR-W> !undaemon cat
23:10:22 <GregorR-W> !daemon cat bf ,[.,]
23:10:25 <GregorR-W> !cat Flarflar
23:10:28 <EgoBot> Flarflar
23:10:37 <lament> !cat !cat !cat
23:10:40 <EgoBot> !cat !cat
23:10:46 <ihope_> !daemon dog ,[,.]
23:10:49 <ihope_> !dog Flarflar
23:10:54 <EgoBot> Huh?
23:10:58 <ihope_> Oh, right right.
23:11:14 <ihope_> Stop being confusing, GregorR.
23:11:17 <ihope_> !daemon dog bf ,[,.]
23:11:20 <ihope_> !dog Flarflar
23:11:22 <EgoBot> larflar
23:11:26 <ihope_> How boring, eh?
23:11:33 <GregorR-W> !undaemon dog
23:11:35 <GregorR-W> !ps d
23:11:36 <EgoBot> Process 3 killed.
23:11:38 <EgoBot> 1 lament: daemon lament bf
23:11:40 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR-W: daemon cat bf
23:11:42 <EgoBot> 3 GregorR-W: ps
23:11:44 <EgoBot> 4 GregorR-W: undaemon
23:11:48 <lament> !daemon daemon bf +[,[-]]
23:11:52 <GregorR-W> Hahah, weird timing :P
23:11:54 <ihope_> undaemon's still running?
23:12:03 <GregorR-W> Only because ps ran at the same time.
23:12:09 <ihope_> Ah.
23:12:10 <lament> !daemon daemon daemon daemon
23:12:13 <ihope_> !ps
23:12:15 <ihope_> !ps
23:12:16 <EgoBot> 4 ihope_: ps
23:12:18 <EgoBot> 4 ihope_: ps
23:12:20 <EgoBot> 5 ihope_: ps
23:12:31 <ihope_> Look! Quadratic spam!
23:12:50 <GregorR-W> Oy
23:14:56 <lament> !ps
23:15:00 <EgoBot> 4 lament: ps
23:18:43 <ihope_> 2, 5, 9, 14...
23:19:10 <ihope_> But I won't do the 14 spam thingy. That'd be mean :-P

2006-06-14:

00:21:45 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
00:33:25 <ihope_> #raw "\a"
00:33:44 <ihope_> That doesn't actually do anything, but don't do it.
00:33:59 <GregorR-W> lol
00:34:51 <ihope_> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a"
00:35:01 <ihope_> That does something similar.
00:35:34 <ihope_> But, oddly enough, that didn't actually send a message.
00:35:45 <ihope_> #raw "PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foob\ar"
00:35:45 <EagleBot> Foobr
00:36:40 <GregorR-W> #raw "QUIT :Permissions working yet?"
00:36:44 <GregorR-W> :(
00:36:56 <GregorR-W> #help
00:37:14 <ihope_> I oughta add a #help command.
00:39:42 <GregorR-W> If you persue the files repository, you'll find that I've updated egobot :)
00:42:11 <GregorR> !reload
00:42:43 -!- EgoBot has quit (Nick collision from services.).
00:42:47 -!- EgoBot has joined.
00:42:50 <ihope_> #raw "QUIT :Bwahaha"
00:42:50 -!- EagleBot has quit ("Bwahaha").
00:43:02 <GregorR> !help
00:43:05 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
00:43:07 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
00:44:03 -!- EagleBot has joined.
00:44:06 <ihope_> Beep.
00:44:14 <ihope_> Now there's a #help command.
00:44:32 <ihope_> You can't #help raw or #help help or anything, but still, there's a #help command.
00:44:52 <ihope_> #help
00:44:52 <EagleBot> #raw "foo": does the IRC command foo if your nick doesn't start with 'G'.
00:45:32 <GregorR-W> lol
00:45:55 <ihope_> Quite the security hole, eh?
00:46:11 <GregorR-W> Yes :P
00:46:59 <ihope_> By the way, you should see this guy's source code. It's really ugly.
00:47:10 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_s)S!<34>(_s)(ns).?"#raw "(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?"QUIT"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
00:47:13 <EgoBot> #raw "QUIT"
00:47:13 -!- EagleBot has quit (Client Quit).
00:47:17 <GregorR-W> ^^
00:47:30 <GregorR-W> So, what's the purpose of EagleBot? :P
00:47:33 <ihope_> Of course, you could just change your nick...
00:47:47 <GregorR-W> Too much work.
00:47:51 <ihope_> Now, purpose... hmm, that's a good one.
00:47:52 <GregorR-W> Writing a glass program to do it is easier.
00:50:20 <ihope_> And here's the ugly source code: http://pastebin.com/707629
00:52:55 <GregorR-W> Oh ... it's in THAT language.
00:53:08 <ihope_> Yep.
00:57:50 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000]").
01:06:34 -!- Arrogant has joined.
02:19:43 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
02:19:45 * SimonRC goes to bed
02:20:13 <Arrogant> Night night
02:20:52 <ihope_> Yeah, it's about bedtime for me, too.
02:21:44 <ihope_> See if you guys can combine EagleBot and EgoBot into a composite chatbot that's better than the sum of the parts, or something.
02:23:03 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Bedtime.").
02:27:53 <GregorR> EgoBot alone is better than sum of EgoBot+EagleBot :P
02:31:08 <Arrogant> What about GregorR? He's a pretty smart bot.
02:49:55 <GregorR> Damn, and here I thought I was passing the turing test :'(
03:07:00 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:08:24 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:26:43 -!- ihope has joined.
04:26:57 <ihope> You know how Wikipedia has one of those slogan thingies?
04:27:16 <ihope> You know: it's not just Wikipedia; it's Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia.
04:27:49 <ihope> Esolang needs one of those, and yes, it IS mandatory.
04:28:25 <ihope> Unless you want us to be Esolang: the Free Encyclopedia.
04:29:04 <Arrogant> Esolang: Weirder than You.
04:29:10 <bsmntbombdood> good one
04:29:19 <ihope> Yeah!
04:29:50 <ihope> Now, the reason it needs one is the "Cologne Blue" skin.
04:30:13 <ihope> Right now, under the heading "Esolang", it says "The Free Encyclopedia", just like Wikipedia probably would.
04:32:27 <ihope> And it's been changed.
04:33:05 <ihope> Now, I ask y'all: what's the point of http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Pubmedurl?
04:33:31 <Arrogant> Brb
04:33:44 <bsmntbombdood> lol ihope
04:35:48 <ihope> Then there's always "This Space for Rent", if "Weirder than You" is shot down, because then everybody will know we're in need of a slogan :-P
04:37:59 <ihope> Well, it's way past time to go to bed.
04:38:39 * ihope goes to bed
04:59:57 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:01:00 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
06:11:44 -!- thematrixeatsyou has joined.
06:12:04 <thematrixeatsyou> 0"syug ih">:#,_@
06:12:15 <sedimin_> ?
06:15:40 <GregorR> !help
06:15:42 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
06:15:44 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
06:15:57 <thematrixeatsyou> it just says hi guys
06:16:06 <GregorR> Yeah, but it's more fun to:
06:16:11 <GregorR> !funge93 0"syug ih">:#,_@
06:16:14 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
06:16:18 <GregorR> Argh
06:16:21 <GregorR> Forgot about its tagline :P
06:16:33 <GregorR> That's it, I'm fixing that here and now :P
06:17:19 <GregorR> !funge93 0"syug ih">:#,_@
06:17:22 <EgoBot> hi guys
06:17:25 <GregorR> Much better.
06:17:28 -!- pgimeno has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:17:56 <fizzie> <@_,#! #:<"hello, hello."*520
06:20:24 <thematrixeatsyou> what does the ! do?
06:20:38 <thematrixeatsyou> i know the rest, pretty much
06:20:53 -!- pgimeno has joined.
06:20:54 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
06:20:54 <thematrixeatsyou> hi pgimeno
06:20:55 <sedimin_> i think it's kinda flag
06:21:07 <sedimin_> that tells the irc bot that a command will follow
06:21:13 <thematrixeatsyou> i think its kinda unneseccary
06:21:19 <thematrixeatsyou> *unnecessary
06:21:31 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 <@_,#! #:<"hello, hello."*520
06:21:34 <EgoBot> hello, hello.
06:21:41 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 <@_,#  #:<"hello, hello."*520
06:22:26 <thematrixeatsyou> should just do...
06:22:30 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 <@_,#:<"hello, hello."*520
06:22:43 <sedimin_> oh
06:22:46 <sedimin_> :]
06:23:02 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 <@_,#! #:<"hello, hello."*520
06:23:04 <EgoBot> hello, hello.
06:23:12 <thematrixeatsyou> phew i didnt crash it
06:26:05 <fizzie> ! is logical not, to flip the directions the _-if directs to.
06:26:10 <EgoBot> Huh?
06:26:20 <fizzie> EgoBot; wasn't talking to you.
06:26:29 <GregorR> :P
06:27:11 <fizzie> Without the ! it'll stop at the first non-zero character.
06:29:45 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
06:31:19 <thematrixeatsyou> ok
06:38:16 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 >:#;052*"olleh">:#,_#;<
06:38:20 <EgoBot> hello
06:38:54 <thematrixeatsyou> does the ; instruction work with this interpreter?
06:39:02 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 ><
06:40:42 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 >0.0<
06:41:00 <thematrixeatsyou> is there an instruction limit?
06:41:04 <EgoBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:41:11 -!- jix has joined.
06:41:12 <thematrixeatsyou> hi jix
06:41:42 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 052*"syug niaga ih"52*"syug ih">:#,_@
06:41:44 <EgoBot> hi guys
06:42:12 <fizzie> Based on the name (...93) I would guess that ";" shouldn't work: it's not a command in befunge93. (It is in funge98, no idea about the intervening versions.)
06:44:42 <thematrixeatsyou> !funge93 >:#"052*'o'l'l'e'h>:#,_#"<
06:44:58 <thematrixeatsyou> does that work?
06:45:07 <thematrixeatsyou> cue the violins please
06:48:00 <fizzie> At least the one-shot string mode (') is not a befunge93 command either.
06:49:21 <fizzie> For an infinite loop something like  >_#"052*'o'l'l'e'h>:#,_#"<  would probably be better, since it empties the stack; otherwise the "..." part would keep pushing trash on the stack.
06:49:35 <fizzie> (But that needs the ' command.)
06:51:35 <fizzie> Although if you don't mind wrapping, it's much easier just to do something like
06:51:37 <fizzie> !funge93 0" olleh">:#,_
06:54:11 <GregorR> This will crash:
06:54:12 <GregorR> !reload
06:54:13 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:54:38 -!- EgoBot has joined.
06:54:39 <thematrixeatsyou> hi EgoBot
06:54:48 <GregorR> OK, now it has time limits :P
06:58:44 <thematrixeatsyou> lol, just greeted another bot
06:59:10 <thematrixeatsyou> !reload
06:59:50 <thematrixeatsyou> hang on...
07:01:36 <thematrixeatsyou> back
07:02:15 <GregorR> No, you can't reload it, only I can.
07:08:21 <thematrixeatsyou> bummer
07:13:22 <thematrixeatsyou> gonna go so ciao
07:14:16 -!- thematrixeatsyou has quit (">_#"052*'e'y'b>:#,_#"<").
07:26:34 -!- mtve has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:25 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:13:21 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
08:20:30 -!- nooga has joined.
08:20:37 <nooga> hey
08:56:47 -!- nooga has quit.
09:30:02 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
11:17:47 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
11:18:08 -!- sedimin_ has changed nick to sedimin.
12:20:07 * SimonRC thinks that [[PubMedURL]] is Googlebait.
12:23:18 <SimonRC> hmm
12:23:37 <sedimin> mmh
12:24:13 <SimonRC> is it possible to get round a URL block by getting yourself a username?
12:25:28 <lindi-> url block?
12:26:52 <SimonRC> erm, oops
12:27:00 <SimonRC> is it possible to get round an IP block by getting yourself a username?
12:33:01 <sedimin> but what IP block?
12:33:05 <sedimin> who is blocking you?
12:41:42 <SimonRC> what?
12:41:46 <SimonRC> no-one's blocking me
12:42:22 <SimonRC> I'm just worrying that we may looses some fans who aren't prepared to wait until 2030 for their blocks to expire
12:42:41 <SimonRC> sedimin: on the esolang wiki
12:42:50 <sedimin> hm
12:43:03 <sedimin> I don't know how does mediawiki IP block work
12:43:27 <sedimin> but if it blocks somebody's IP, it probably won't allow him/her to create an account
12:43:58 <sedimin> but, if that somebody gets another IP, he may get username, and then try to connect from blocked IP, it won't let him either
12:45:13 -!- ihope has joined.
12:45:46 <sedimin> grr.. i hate when something wants me to restart computer
12:55:16 <SimonRC> Some people say that the Pope is the greatest cardinal. But that can't be true, because every Pope has a successor.
12:55:23 <SimonRC> :-D
13:02:32 * SimonRC finds out the definition of "not for long": "(1 furlong) / (1 knot) = 6.51732181 minutes"  :-D
13:03:30 <sedimin> :)
13:05:40 * ihope wonders why he had a terminal window open with "copy con con"
13:07:02 <sedimin> recommend me some good music.. :)
13:08:49 <ihope> Good music? Just plain old music?
13:56:26 <sedimin> something
13:56:33 <sedimin> just something good for listening
14:08:41 <ihope> !bf_txtgen foo
14:08:44 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
14:21:07 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
14:37:49 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:55:25 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:01:10 <ihope_> So over in #nethack, there's a nice big argument over whether it's "artifact" or "artefact".
16:17:15 -!- PcWoRm has joined.
16:17:49 -!- kipple has joined.
16:18:06 <PcWoRm> !help
16:18:09 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
16:18:11 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
16:18:25 <PcWoRm> hm
16:21:26 -!- kipple has quit (Client Quit).
16:26:28 -!- kipple has joined.
16:45:28 -!- sedimin has joined.
17:22:13 -!- tgwizard has joined.
17:23:24 -!- PcWoRm has quit ("exploits-bg.com").
17:24:37 -!- nooga has joined.
17:24:43 <nooga> hey hey hye
17:24:48 <nooga> who knows SML?
17:24:51 <sedimin> huh
17:25:04 <sedimin> you mean standard ML?
17:25:23 <nooga> yup
17:25:47 <sedimin> why do you need it? :)
17:25:58 <sedimin> the ML is older than me, hehe
17:27:36 <nooga> hehe, 'cause i just want to learn another programming language and i need some hints where to start
17:28:02 <sedimin> try intercal
17:28:03 <sedimin> :)
17:28:24 <sedimin> or if you want to learn unesoteric language, try Lua
17:29:11 <nooga> i know it already
17:29:15 <nooga> i mean Lua
17:29:40 <nooga> coded hell lots of scripts for some idiotic games in it
17:29:55 <sedimin> why idiotic games? :)
17:30:54 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
17:31:05 <sedimin> or maybe list
17:31:08 <sedimin> lisp*
17:31:16 <nooga> lisp?
17:31:38 <nooga> i know it (not at all but always...)
17:31:54 <sedimin> so what you don't know? :)
17:31:55 <nooga> even tried to write interpreter in C
17:32:01 <nooga> SML
17:41:47 <nooga> well well
17:41:55 <nooga> ah
17:42:16 <nooga> you're that guy who has invented omgrofl?
17:44:44 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
17:45:52 <nooga> it's cool, i attempted to write fibonacci printer in it but number output was too time consuming
18:02:58 <nooga> sedimin
18:18:25 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:22:57 -!- nooga has quit.
19:51:22 -!- calamari has joined.
20:25:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:26:40 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:46:50 -!- nooga has joined.
21:47:05 <nooga> ooh
21:47:09 <nooga> hi
21:52:09 <GregorR-W> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA
21:53:41 <nooga> jix
21:53:44 <nooga> where's jix
21:53:49 <nooga> i need him now
21:53:55 <nooga> oh, hi GregorR
21:53:58 <nooga> GregorR-W
21:54:07 <nooga> what r u hacking now?
21:56:42 <calamari> hello
21:57:23 <GregorR-W> I'm at work, I'm hacking work.
21:57:41 <nooga> oh
22:00:08 -!- jix has joined.
22:04:44 <GregorR-W> Speak of the devil.
22:06:35 <nooga> oh
22:06:36 <nooga> jix
22:07:00 <nooga> jix: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
22:08:08 <jix> gn8
22:08:21 <jix> nooga: football?
22:09:07 <nooga> yeah -.-'
22:09:09 <nooga> =.=
22:09:53 <nooga> 1:0 in for Germany in 92nd minute... i knew
22:21:18 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:22:02 <nooga> well
22:22:05 <nooga> gn8
22:22:13 <nooga> bye
22:22:20 -!- nooga has quit.
22:33:27 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:33:34 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
22:36:51 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
23:01:17 -!- oerjanj has joined.
23:04:28 <oerjanj> hi all
23:05:02 <kipple> hei
23:05:31 <oerjanj> hei kipple (=rune?)
23:05:41 <kipple> ja
23:06:31 <oerjanj> det var stille her
23:06:54 <kipple> det er ikke akkurat den mest aktive kanalen i verden nei
23:06:58 <oerjanj> i wondered if keymaker was here he seemed interested in my last language
23:07:28 <oerjanj> det var mer liv sist men det var litt senere på kvelden
23:09:47 <ihope> Swedish?
23:09:52 <oerjanj> norwegian
23:09:59 <ihope> Yeah, that's what I mean.
23:10:02 <ihope> Meant, even.
23:10:28 <oerjanj> easy mistake for an american. we pretend not to be offended. :-)
23:13:17 <ihope> What? It was a typo...
23:13:56 <kipple> typos can be offensive too... ;)
23:14:00 <oerjanj> Norwegian=Swedish is a typo? _Now_ i am offended :-)
23:14:19 <lament> hey oerjanj
23:14:35 <oerjanj> hi lament
23:15:54 <ihope> I meant Norwegian, okay?
23:16:00 * ihope storms off in a pretend rage
23:16:19 <oerjanj> don't worry
23:17:32 <GregorR-W> They're pretty similar.  You know, like Chinese and Hebrew.
23:17:59 * oerjanj boggles with eyes
23:18:10 <kipple> actually, by many linguists they are considered the same languages
23:18:35 * kipple removes the last 's' from the previous sentence
23:18:38 <oerjanj> yeah, most of the interesting features are common
23:19:26 <ihope> Hmm, "Se Habla Espanol".
23:19:44 <ihope> What does "hablarse" mean, again? :-P
23:21:50 <kipple> Swedish is like Norwegian much in the same way as  Ook! is like brainfuck ;)
23:22:06 * oerjanj looks up Ook!
23:22:22 <ihope> Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook!
23:22:54 <oerjanj> would danish be like Moo then?
23:23:07 <kipple> I guess
23:23:25 <ihope> ...Um, apparently, that's "increment until zero".
23:23:26 <oerjanj> COW i mean
23:24:14 <ihope> Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook?
23:24:37 <kipple> does EgoBot speak Ook! ?
23:25:03 <ihope> !help
23:25:07 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
23:25:09 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
23:25:32 <ihope> Write me a Brainfuck interpreter in Unlambda and I'll turn it into an Ook interpreter :-P
23:26:27 <ihope> Now, if I'm not mistaken, it is easy for Unlambda to simulate Unlambda: just construct a tree with all your primitive thingies, then fold them into a function, which is your program.
23:27:00 <oerjanj> that's what i did in my unlambda self-interpreter, essentially
23:27:57 <ihope> And it's a proof that Unlambda can't be compiled into anything unlike it :-P
23:28:09 <oerjanj> that ook! program is wrong, Ook? Ook? is not a legal instruction
23:28:44 <ihope> But it's never executed.
23:29:01 <kipple> so, it's a comment then? :)
23:29:47 <ihope> I dunno. In the Haskell program "main = seq undefined (3+2)", is the (3+2) a comment?
23:29:48 <oerjanj> [-]+[]
23:30:46 * kipple goes to bed
23:30:49 <oerjanj> how unlike does it have to be? it combiled fine into Ocaml
23:31:09 <oerjanj> not particularly efficiently though
23:32:14 <oerjanj> hm, a brainfuck interpreter in Unlambda
23:32:35 <bsmntbombdood> In brainfuck, if I have a number in a cell, how can I move right that number of cells?
23:33:46 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: is it the traditional "data, junk, data, junk, data, junk..." tape layout thing?
23:33:57 <bsmntbombdood> sort of
23:34:14 <ihope> Can you afford to throw away the junk?
23:34:24 -!- Keymaker has joined.
23:34:39 <Keymaker> hey oerjan
23:34:47 <oerjanj> hi keymaker
23:34:52 <bsmntbombdood> a few cells, yes
23:35:14 <ihope> What do you mean?
23:35:17 <oerjanj> seen my cat example?
23:35:48 <Keymaker> nope yet :) i came to the channel right after reading something in logs that you wondered if i'm here :p
23:35:58 <Keymaker> i'll check it now
23:36:49 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: if the cells are like this "0 0 0 0 x 0 0 0 0...", how can I move x cells to the right?
23:37:00 <ihope> Ah, that makes it easy.
23:37:36 <ihope> [-[>+<-]>]
23:37:38 <ihope> I think.
23:38:07 <oerjanj> what if the only cell you can afford to throw away is the one containing x?
23:38:25 <ihope> Then it's probably impossible.
23:38:35 <ihope> That's why you should have throwaway cells.
23:39:12 <oerjanj> hm, you can't swap content of two cells without throwaway?
23:39:28 <ihope> Loops have to end on a zero.
23:39:29 <oerjanj> but with two throwaway cells it ought to work
23:39:43 <ihope> Oh, by the way, bsmntbombdood: do you want to leave that one x in place, or can it be zeroed?
23:39:54 <bsmntbombdood> it can be zeroed
23:40:09 <ihope> Okay, because the above will zero it.
23:40:41 <ihope> It turns 4 0 0 0 0 into 0 3 0 0 0 into 0 0 2 0 0 into 0 0 0 1 0 into 0 0 0 0 0, moving to the right each time.
23:40:56 <bsmntbombdood> yeah, that wont work
23:41:00 <oerjanj> if x and the cell to its right are expendable...
23:41:20 <ihope> It could go 4 0 0 0 0 -> 4 3 0 0 0 -> 4 0 2 0 0 -> 4 0 0 1 0 -> 4 0 0 0 0.
23:41:49 <ihope> Well, 4 0 0 0 0 -> 4 4 0 0 0 -> 4 3 0 0 0...
23:41:55 <bsmntbombdood> I need to keep the cells between x and the destination
23:42:14 <oerjanj> or x and the cell to its left, then?
23:42:17 <ihope> All of the cells between x and the destination, no matter what their values are?
23:42:30 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: yes
23:42:44 <Keymaker> perhaps something like this would help? [->[<<+>>-]<[>+<-]>] ?
23:42:56 <Keymaker> (if i got this problem correct :\)
23:42:59 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: a couple of cells close to x would be ok to throw away
23:43:07 <ihope> Then unless you know that the gap is less than a certain size, it's probably impossible.
23:43:25 <oerjanj> i think it is possible
23:43:29 <ihope> With some "disposable" cells every once in a while, it would be possible.
23:44:02 <ihope> Well, are these finite cells or infinite?
23:44:08 <oerjanj> first swap x and its neighbor with the neighbors two steps to the right
23:44:38 <oerjanj> (the neighbor is used for temporary storage)
23:45:18 <oerjanj> maybe just one step is simpler
23:46:03 <oerjanj> decrementing x, then you continue swapping, making sure to repair the left hand side as you go
23:46:18 <oerjanj> until x reaches 0, then finish clean up
23:50:12 <bsmntbombdood> Keymaker's works
23:51:16 <bsmntbombdood> I think
23:51:34 <Keymaker> notice that my code moves all the cells one left
23:51:40 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
23:52:36 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:53:31 <bsmntbombdood> it moves the cells 2 left
23:54:15 <bsmntbombdood> anyway, I have to go
23:54:15 <Keymaker> ok :)
23:54:19 <Keymaker> ok
23:55:04 <Keymaker> yeah,two it is.. my brain isn't functioning
23:55:07 <Keymaker> ;P
23:57:58 * oerjanj is starting to think it _is_ impossible to do that easily

2006-06-15:

00:01:16 <Keymaker> here's a version that lefts the cells one left. (i may be non-right again..)..   [->[<<+>>-]<[>+<-]<[>+<-]>>]
00:01:28 <Keymaker> memory: ..0 x d d d
00:01:29 * bsmntbombdood is back
00:02:03 <Keymaker> i can think of nothing when clock gets past midnight :D
00:02:14 <bsmntbombdood> Keymaker: yes, you're wrong
00:02:23 <Keymaker> cool!
00:02:40 <Keymaker> XD
00:02:41 <oerjanj> i think it is impossible to do it in one pass, at least
00:05:21 <oerjanj> now with three cells you could have the distance to both ends simultaneously, plus a cell of temporary storage
00:13:36 * oerjanj ponder the sense of "insensitive" in Reaper's capitalization insensitivity
00:20:40 <Keymaker> i think i'll go
00:20:43 <Keymaker> good night
00:20:49 <oerjanj> good night
00:20:53 <Keymaker> 'nite
00:20:55 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
00:39:15 <oerjanj> bye all
00:39:18 -!- oerjanj has quit ("Leaving").
00:41:47 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000]").
01:19:00 <SimonRC> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=188407&cid=15530602
01:19:01 * SimonRC considers the similarity:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fifa_world_cup_org.jpg  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:War_of_the_worlds_Poster.jpg
01:19:05 * SimonRC goes to bed
04:26:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:27:08 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
04:33:34 -!- puzzlet has joined.
04:56:53 <poiuy_qwert> whats that esoteric language that has an interpreter that is 13 bytes or something crazy like that?
05:14:13 -!- sedimin has joined.
05:56:25 <bsmntbombdood> 13 bytes?
05:57:07 <sedimin> hmm
06:06:46 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:48:52 -!- sedimin has joined.
07:27:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:52:07 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:07:19 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
08:09:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
09:19:06 -!- nooga has joined.
09:19:14 <nooga> heeh
11:26:02 -!- nooga has quit.
12:09:56 * SimonRC mutters about undedicated people that bugger of after only 2 hours on channel
15:36:30 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
16:04:17 -!- ihope has joined.
16:05:17 <ihope> So is Norway really the place to be?
16:15:54 <ihope> Well, Norway is definitely preferable over Niger.
16:19:59 * SimonRC does a little research and discovers a usenet thread 5297 messages long (depth-wise).
16:20:02 * SimonRC is in awe at the Deep History.
16:20:06 <SimonRC> (In net terms)
16:20:12 <SimonRC> Alas, it seems to have died and been revived at some point, losing the References and slightly changing the title.
16:20:29 <SimonRC> It's the "10,000 Celerity cds" thread in alt.games.mornington.cresent.  The count-down from 10,000 started in 1997 some time.
16:21:15 * ihope notices that "p" and "b" are pronounced very smilarly
16:21:28 <SimonRC> Then again, there was IIRC a phone conversation that lasted many years once.
16:21:32 <SimonRC> ihope: well, yeah
16:21:47 <ihope> Just like "d" and "t".
16:22:07 <SimonRC> Some phreakers dialed into an onld machine in the back on an exchange somewhere and the conversation ended up continuing in shifts.
16:22:28 <SimonRC> ihope:   http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/cxschart.png
16:23:13 <ihope> Ah, that's useful.
16:23:41 <ihope> But it doesn't have any velar trill symbol...
16:24:21 <ihope> :-P
16:35:08 -!- tgwizard has joined.
16:48:40 * SimonRC admires one of his bits of work:  http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?p=388725#388725
16:52:44 <ihope> You mean "I am teh half-joking"? :-)
17:40:01 <wildhalcyon> ihope, since when have you needed to use a velar trill?
17:40:40 <ihope> Um, since I decided to make a language that has every consonant.
17:41:18 <wildhalcyon> oh
17:41:34 <wildhalcyon> then yeah, you need a couple
17:43:24 <ihope> It has consonants like the "sinister projection" and the "hypoallergenic stop".
17:46:57 -!- kipple has joined.
17:53:09 <ihope> It has both a voiced glottal juxtaposition and a voiceless glottal juxtaposition.
18:00:41 <wildhalcyon> you're evil ihope
18:07:58 <SimonRC> "Windows System tray monitor has detected the you system tray is too full.  Click here to run the System Tray Cleanup Wizard."  :-D
18:08:13 <wildhalcyon> wow
18:08:55 <SimonRC> ihope:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%21X%C3%B3%C3%B5_language
18:09:00 <SimonRC> wildhalcyon: that was a joke, BTW
18:09:18 <SimonRC> ihope: but that is real, AFAIK
18:18:45 <ihope> An average-length consonant name in this language is "cetacean signature whistle superimposed with indeterminate hyperbolic sine wave". All of the above are unusually short.
18:21:14 <ihope> Actually, maybe that was a vowel.
18:23:56 -!- Arrogant has joined.
18:25:22 <wildhalcyon> what is an indeterminate hyperbolic sine wave?
18:25:49 <Arrogant> Probly something boring
18:26:48 <ihope> Yeah. The "indeterminate" bit means that it's... wait a minute.
18:27:35 <ihope> Oh, right. It's probabilistic.
18:38:03 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:52:05 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
19:15:50 <SimonRC> "Music And Film Industry Association of America (MAFIAA)"  :-D
19:17:21 -!- ihope has joined.
19:17:31 <ihope> Grr. Why do I keep typing "define" as "defube"?
19:18:00 <Arrogant> That is an incredibly question.
19:18:04 <Arrogant> incredible.
19:18:08 <Arrogant> argh.
19:46:53 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
19:47:10 <wildhalcyon> hey hey
19:47:56 <wildhalcyon> I made a new esolang, but I don't have time right now to post the spec to the wiki
19:49:29 <wildhalcyon> Mostly because I'm still finishing up by adding some examples.
19:50:19 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
20:44:10 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:57:55 -!- jix has joined.
21:31:54 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
22:12:04 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:14:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:38:42 * SimonRC goes
23:26:39 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:39:23 -!- fizzie has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
23:46:15 -!- fizzie has joined.

2006-06-16:

00:21:43 <wildhalcyon> me back
00:46:55 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
01:09:24 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
01:09:56 -!- cmeme has joined.
01:32:50 -!- calamari has joined.
01:33:09 <calamari> hi
01:33:22 <ihope> Hello.
01:33:26 <ihope> And hi, too.
01:34:10 <calamari> hmm
01:34:18 <calamari> did
01:34:29 <calamari> hehe
01:34:40 <calamari> this
01:34:56 <SimonRC> ???
01:35:05 * SimonRC goes
01:35:07 <calamari> I'm
01:36:10 <calamari> since
01:36:15 <ihope> Eh
01:36:20 <calamari> only
01:36:27 <ihope> Oh!
01:36:34 <ihope> Put a colon in front of every message.
01:36:40 <ihope> PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like this.
01:36:55 <calamari> oh,
01:37:17 <calamari> test
01:37:26 <ihope> So far, each of your messages has had only one word.
01:37:33 <SimonRC> indeed
01:37:36 * SimonRC goes
01:37:44 <calamari> how many words?
01:37:48 <ihope> Three.
01:38:04 <calamari> hurray from lame ms-dos irc clients
01:38:08 <ihope> :-)
01:38:53 <calamari> thanks for the fix!
01:39:48 <ihope> 'Welcome.
01:46:21 <calamari> afk
01:54:44 <calamari> so I guess that means you guys didn't see the part about my shell being down yet again
01:55:47 <calamari> I leave my computer on so much that I just about don't need one now anyways
01:55:52 <ihope> No, I didn't see it.
01:56:28 <calamari> I'd need to set up a script to update dyndns every so often, that's about it
01:56:29 <ihope> hi, hmm, did, hehe, this, I'm, since, only, oh,, test. :-)
01:56:41 <calamari> LOL
01:58:22 <calamari> I was with one free dyndns provider, but they terminated me because my dns change often enough for themm
01:58:33 <calamari> didn't change
01:59:37 <calamari> I guess the other problem is that the port must be nonstandard.. I guess I can solve that with my domain tho
02:00:16 <calamari> blah, wish I didn't have to worry about this.. dumb people being irresponsible, and I'm paying them
02:03:00 <calamari> afk again
02:30:01 -!- Arrogant has joined.
02:38:44 <calamari> bbl
02:38:49 -!- calamari has quit.
02:53:50 <Arrogant> Have you guys ever heard of Io?
03:00:37 <ihope> The moon?
03:01:05 <ihope> Or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_programming_language
03:01:36 <Arrogant> That.
03:01:57 <Arrogant> Ack, dinner.
03:02:01 * Arrogant bbiabs
03:02:08 -!- Arrogant has changed nick to Arro[gone]t.
03:02:23 <ihope> :-P
03:18:12 -!- Arro[gone]t has changed nick to Arrogant.
03:22:08 <Arrogant> Back.
03:27:06 <SimonRC> http://nicolaas.net/dudley/index.php?f=20060608  <-- hehehe
03:27:28 <ihope> That's supposed to go in #nethack. :-P
03:28:00 <SimonRC> everyone in #nethack who should read DD already does AFAICT
03:28:07 * SimonRC tries to remember why this is relevent here:   http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnopparatrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathitsakkattiyavisanukamprasit&redirect=no
03:29:41 <ihope> "The city of angels, the great city, the eternal jewel city, the impregnable city of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn."
03:29:53 <SimonRC> yeah, I read that
03:30:25 <ihope> I went to the city of angels, the great city, the eternal jewel city, the impregnable city of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn. In the city of angels, the great city, the eternal...
03:30:27 <ihope> ...jewel city, the impregnable city of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn, there was a sign that said "Welcome to the city of angels, the great city, the eternal jewel city, the...
03:30:29 <ihope> ...impregnable city of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn!"
03:31:04 * SimonRC fwaps ihope.
03:31:08 * SimonRC goes to bed
03:31:29 <ihope> Compare: I went to chicago. In Chicago, there was a sign that said "Welcome to Chicago!"
04:15:55 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:17:43 -!- ihope has joined.
04:25:20 <wildhalcyon> hey
04:25:34 <Arrogant> wildhalcyon, did you post your new language yet?
04:26:13 <wildhalcyon> Sorry, not yet. I've been at  work
04:26:19 <wildhalcyon> Its called Metropolis though :-D
04:27:53 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
04:27:57 <wildhalcyon> I forgot to add the comment in the edit that it was specifically editing to add M-> Metropolis
04:28:01 <wildhalcyon> I can't figure out a way to fix that
04:29:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:31:29 * Arrogant figures that one of these days he'll post his work
04:32:20 <wildhalcyon> Im typing up the spec right now
04:32:26 * wildhalcyon would love to see Arrogant's work
04:32:43 <wildhalcyon> I thought my idea was all cool and inspirational, but it turns out it probably isnt :-(
04:32:50 <Arrogant> I thought my idea was too
04:32:55 <wildhalcyon> it was inspired by Langton's Ants
04:33:04 <Arrogant> Oh, neat
04:33:13 <wildhalcyon> instead of pixel colors, it uses a symbol transition table
04:33:21 <Arrogant> I have to see this one
04:33:22 <wildhalcyon> and it allows for non-determinism
04:34:01 <wildhalcyon> there's no way to provide I/O to the program however.
04:34:08 <Arrogant> Oh.
04:34:10 <Arrogant> :(
04:34:14 <wildhalcyon> sorry
04:34:34 <wildhalcyon> you can have an initial state, and an output state, but I haven't really thought of a way to provide I/O
04:37:50 * Arrogant is writing a parser module for Io
04:37:58 <Arrogant> Then I'll implement the language there.
04:38:14 <Arrogant> I want to simplify it a bit
04:38:23 <Arrogant> Merge concepts, you know?
04:39:19 <wildhalcyon> Sure, give it a whirl
04:39:30 <Arrogant> Right now I am mostly happy with it
04:39:44 <Arrogant> But there's something bugging me about how you can dynamically access scopes but not methods
04:40:01 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
04:40:01 <wildhalcyon> ...?
04:40:26 <Arrogant> Oh right, you haven't been here when I've explained it
04:41:00 <wildhalcyon> I found the relevent text I think
04:41:05 <wildhalcyon> I'm familiarizing myself as we speak
04:41:22 * Arrogant might've talked about it more than once
04:42:06 <wildhalcyon> hmm, ok
04:55:22 <wildhalcyon> I have a quick question
04:56:00 <wildhalcyon> at http://www.maa.org/editorial/mathgames/mathgames_06_07_04.html it mentions the "state" of the turing machine head. How should I interpret that?
04:58:02 <wildhalcyon> I guess I should probably include some kind of current 'state' for my program
04:58:04 <wildhalcyon> not too hard
05:14:04 <lament> wildhalcyon: that's how the turing machines work. There's the position of the head, and there's the state.
05:14:30 <wildhalcyon> I always understood it as acting more like BF, I guess
05:15:55 <lament> nope
05:16:05 <lament> it doesn't have a sequential "program"
05:16:54 <wildhalcyon> makes things even more interesting
05:17:00 <wildhalcyon> but not a problem
05:18:19 <wildhalcyon> Although now I have to deal with adding that to the syntax
05:18:56 <lament> the syntax of what?
05:20:39 <wildhalcyon> Metropolis, my new esolang for 2D turing machines
05:34:10 <wildhalcyon> alright ,the crazy spec is up for now
05:35:47 <Arrogant> You should probably change User:WildHalcyon ;)
05:35:56 <wildhalcyon> to what?
05:35:56 * Arrogant wishes he remembered the syntax
05:36:06 <Arrogant> Don't need the User: to show up on the displayed
05:36:30 <Arrogant> You can have it say WildHalcyon and still lead to User:WildHalcyon
05:36:40 <wildhalcyon> really?
05:36:43 <lament> http://gallery.z3.ca/d/10898-1/love.jpg
05:36:44 <Arrogant> Yeah.
05:37:05 <wildhalcyon> Thats not working for me
05:37:13 <Arrogant> lament, nice
05:38:01 <lament> thanks
06:07:40 -!- Arrogant_ has joined.
06:21:55 -!- Arrogant has quit (Success).
06:23:59 -!- Arrogant_ has changed nick to Arrogant.
06:42:15 -!- thematrixeatsyou has joined.
06:42:47 <thematrixeatsyou> teh hello
06:42:52 <thematrixeatsyou> H
06:50:15 <thematrixeatsyou> bye
06:50:15 -!- thematrixeatsyou has quit.
07:37:08 <wildhalcyon> alright, Im going to bed.
07:37:35 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:42:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:20:07 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
13:13:49 <SimonRC> lament: good pic
13:14:01 <SimonRC> are you the amature photographer?
13:45:04 -!- Keymaker has joined.
13:45:26 <Keymaker> hello
13:45:38 <Keymaker> ..and nice photo lament
13:49:17 <SimonRC> Keymaker: how did you see the photo?
13:49:31 <SimonRC> you weren't there at the time!
13:49:32 <Keymaker> there is logs..
13:49:35 <Keymaker> :P
13:50:16 <Keymaker> or technically two logs :)
13:50:53 <SimonRC> It is really much simpler just to never leave the channel.
13:51:09 <Keymaker> heh
13:52:04 <SimonRC> "$ uptime
13:52:05 <SimonRC>  13:51:22 up 37 days, 23:56, 26 users,  load average: 0.05, 0.34, 0.88"
13:52:44 <SimonRC> "$ users
13:52:45 <SimonRC> ads cim cim djw dk ecb psn rjlh rjlh sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sc sr tsp tw tw webmin"
14:02:04 -!- tgwizard has joined.
14:22:53 <SimonRC> hi
14:36:24 -!- ihope has joined.
14:41:56 -!- sedimin has joined.
14:41:58 <sedimin> ey
14:42:06 <Keymaker> ey
14:42:18 <sedimin> how is it going?
14:42:26 <Keymaker> fine
14:42:31 <Keymaker> (i guess)
14:43:13 <sedimin> who has to know it, if you do not? :)
14:43:21 <Keymaker> :P
14:46:11 <sedimin> ok, gotta work :/
15:14:03 <SimonRC> Yay!  They posted it!  http://worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=1
15:14:51 <sedimin> whats
15:14:55 <sedimin> what's it?
15:16:08 <ihope> Rock Paper Scissors!
15:16:19 <ihope> It took me a longish time to figure that out, actually.
15:16:30 <SimonRC> gah
15:16:45 <SimonRC> WTF have hotmail doe that disables middle-click?
15:17:02 <SimonRC> ah, javascript
15:18:20 <ihope> Um, doe?
15:19:24 <Keymaker> bye
15:19:27 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
15:19:48 <ihope> "Ay-yay-yay me psuella es ay carumba!"
15:19:52 <ihope> Is that Spanish?
15:22:40 <sedimin> :)
15:22:44 <sedimin> lemme see
15:23:16 <sedimin> it does not seem so
15:24:52 -!- kipple has joined.
15:25:01 <sedimin> heh
15:25:35 <sedimin> today i received my first e-mail demanding support, from an user of my software..
15:25:55 <sedimin> i hope there'll not be hundreds of mails liek this after some time :)
15:27:07 <ihope> What software is it?
15:27:31 <sedimin> it's called PPC_edit,
15:27:34 <sedimin> text editor for pocket pc
15:31:04 <ihope> "Under no circumstances can a losing throw ever beat a winning throw." :-)
15:33:36 <sedimin> :)
15:33:43 -!- sedimin has left (?).
16:36:01 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
16:52:01 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
17:31:36 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
18:02:05 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:13:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:26:28 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
18:41:48 -!- CXI has joined.
18:45:44 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
19:02:12 -!- jix has joined.
20:27:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:58:20 -!- Arrogant has joined.
23:29:49 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
23:38:14 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:38:22 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:39:34 -!- GregorR has joined.

2006-06-17:

00:48:08 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
00:56:05 -!- Arrogant has joined.
01:59:25 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
02:14:13 <ihope> Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers?
02:18:46 <ihope> Oh, it's bedtime.
02:19:06 -!- ihope has quit ("The wonderful thing about Tiggers...").
02:53:23 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:06:23 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:06:35 -!- jix has joined.
03:15:22 <SimonRC> hmm, accurate:  http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=2290
03:15:30 <SimonRC> also: ...
03:15:57 <SimonRC> Ye gods this is clever!  perl -e '$??s:;s:s;;$?::s;;=]=>%-{<-|}<&|`{;; y; -/:-@[-`{-};`-{/" -;;s;;$_;see'
03:16:03 <SimonRC> DO NOT RUN THAT!!!!
03:16:10 <SimonRC> http://www.dlitz.net/stuff/malicious-perl-sig/
03:23:40 <bsmntbombdood> ahh, perl
03:26:33 <bsmntbombdood> executable line-noise
03:28:32 <SimonRC> it is very clever
03:29:20 <bsmntbombdood> I don't know perl, so I have no idea
03:29:32 <SimonRC> have you read the URL?
03:29:40 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
03:30:16 <SimonRC> well, the program starts with the equivalent of: false?asdfasdfasdf:morestuff
03:30:27 <SimonRC> i.e. only moresutff gets executed.
03:30:32 <bsmntbombdood> I understood that part
03:31:00 <SimonRC> Now, Larry Wall was not just a programmer, but a linguist too...
03:31:10 <SimonRC> so he gave perl pronouns
03:31:21 <SimonRC> the default pronoun for many things is called $_
03:31:53 <SimonRC> it is what allows perl to work like sed often, since $_ is implicit in many places
03:32:00 <SimonRC> got that? ...
03:32:11 <bsmntbombdood> no
03:32:21 <SimonRC> you know what sed is, right?
03:32:25 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
03:32:56 <SimonRC> perl has some of the same stuff as that in it.
03:33:26 <SimonRC> but perl justifies such things belonging in a real language by using $_
03:33:26 <bsmntbombdood> ok
03:33:46 <SimonRC> $_ is the variable that commands often work on if you specify no other variable
03:34:20 <SimonRC>  so, the first command is a substitution on $_, like sed's s///.
03:34:41 <SimonRC> except, here the programmer chose to use ; instead of /
03:35:24 <SimonRC> it replaces nothing ($_ is initially empty AFAICT) with  =]=>%-{<-|}<&|`{  in $_
03:35:50 <SimonRC> which basically acts like  $_ = '=]=>%-{<-|}<&|`{'
03:36:13 <SimonRC> got that?
03:36:15 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
03:36:30 <bsmntbombdood> I think I understand it now
03:36:33 <SimonRC> so, we have a string of precise garbage in $_
03:36:53 <SimonRC> now, the y command translates chars into other chars with a look-up table
03:37:14 <SimonRC> he has used lots of ranges, to make the LHS shorter and the RHS letter-free
03:37:57 <SimonRC> if you work out what the table is, you find it turns all the ASCII punctuation except ~ into (mostly) letters.
03:38:28 <SimonRC> this turns the string of garbage in $_ into      system"rm -rf /"
03:39:25 <SimonRC> the final substitution turns nothing into $_ (don't quite understand that myself), and executes the result.
03:39:41 <SimonRC> Tada!  He demonstrates that perl is too powerful
03:39:44 <SimonRC> heh
03:40:09 <bsmntbombdood> and that people should execute random code
03:40:16 <SimonRC> :-)
03:40:47 <bsmntbombdood> s/should/shouldn't/
03:47:05 * SimonRC goes
03:47:08 * SimonRC goes to bed
04:27:13 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
05:49:22 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
06:09:08 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
07:59:04 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
11:54:43 -!- kipple has joined.
13:10:36 * SimonRC eats breakfast
13:53:00 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:15:45 -!- kipple has joined.
15:22:50 <kipple> hmm. my new language has a feature I'm starting to think could be a problem: It is not possible to have code in the program that is not executed at least once. I.e. If is not possible
15:23:00 <kipple> would that be a problem for turing completeness?
17:33:07 -!- ihope has joined.
17:33:14 <ihope> BASIC and Haskell are opposites.
17:49:03 -!- tgwizard has joined.
17:50:07 <SimonRC> kipple: I think that is not a problem
17:52:25 <SimonRC> given cond = [expression giving 1 or 0], then you do tt twice, undo tt (2-i) times, do ff twice, undo ff (1+i) times.
17:52:45 <SimonRC> the net result is: if c then tt else ff endif
17:53:02 <SimonRC> ihope: well, duh
17:58:21 <ihope> :-)
17:58:41 <SimonRC> ye gods this compiler is crap so far...
17:59:10 <SimonRC> "    goto A_Start_exit;
17:59:11 <SimonRC>     A_Start_exit:"
17:59:41 <SimonRC> also:
17:59:42 <SimonRC> "    goto A_Start_exit;
17:59:45 <SimonRC>     A_Start_exit:"
17:59:46 <SimonRC> erm, oops
17:59:55 <SimonRC> I meant:
17:59:56 <SimonRC> "    fp[-2] = (int)malloc(8);
17:59:56 <SimonRC>     fp[-1] = fp[-2];
17:59:56 <SimonRC>     push(10);
17:59:57 <SimonRC>     push(fp[-1]);"
18:00:32 <SimonRC> Note that fp points to the last value pushed at the strt of that snippet.
18:00:37 <ihope> So Subtle Cough is useless...
18:00:42 <SimonRC> ???
18:00:45 <ihope> That's nice :-)
18:01:22 <SimonRC> Well, my job next academic year is to make it into an ptimising compiler
18:01:43 <ihope> What's it compiling?
18:04:01 <SimonRC> A java subset into C.
18:04:16 <SimonRC> it assumes that sizeof(int)=8
18:04:20 <SimonRC> oops
18:04:21 <SimonRC> it assumes that sizeof(int)=4
18:05:06 <SimonRC> waitamo...
18:05:41 <SimonRC> is it traditional for the stack pointer to point at the top item of the stack or the place where the next item will be put?
18:11:49 <ihope> Who uses pointers? :-P
18:16:28 <SimonRC> OMFG!  http://elitemrp.net/fark/2006/hdd/
19:56:18 -!- GregorR has quit ("Leaving").
20:52:34 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:01:15 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
21:01:32 <wildhalcyon> hey folks
21:01:45 <ihope> HAI
21:02:12 <wildhalcyon> whats up?
21:02:33 <bsmntbombdood> the sky, stupid :P
21:03:07 <wildhalcyon> Only from the perspective of the ground, in reference to physical objects
21:03:14 <ihope> Yeah, duh. Why don't you just LOOK up, you idiot?
21:04:06 <wildhalcyon> Well, suppose you're at the International Space Station?
21:04:15 <wildhalcyon> Up is like... some other direction
21:04:21 <bsmntbombdood> then there is no up.
21:07:36 <ihope> There are two ups, but they're in opposite directions, so they cancel out.
21:07:45 <bsmntbombdood> no, there's no ups
21:08:12 <wildhalcyon> up is a constantly changing dynamic quantity
21:08:25 <bsmntbombdood> no, it doesn't exist
21:08:59 <wildhalcyon> but it does
21:09:07 <bsmntbombdood> define it
21:10:05 <wildhalcyon> ...
21:10:07 <wildhalcyon> I can't :-(
21:11:56 <ihope> At a given point X, up is the opposite of the direction of the net gravity at X.
21:12:58 <bsmntbombdood> *  X  *
21:13:06 -!- jix has joined.
21:13:17 <wildhalcyon> that would work
21:13:20 <bsmntbombdood> if * is a planet, where is up at point X
21:13:37 <wildhalcyon> depends on where you currently are on the planet
21:14:00 <wildhalcyon> for the most part, its going to be the normal vector to the surface of the planet at point x
21:14:03 <ihope> If there is no net gravity at X, then the direction of the net gravity at X is undefined, making up at point X undefined.
21:35:02 <wildhalcyon> That makes sense
22:02:05 <ihope> Hmm. A Google search for "cow tipping" gives "Wikipedia: Cow Tipping", with a description of "Examines the evidence that cow tipping is an urban myth." Compare this to one of the results for "Phil Stocks": "Phil Stocks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia", with the description of "Phil Stocks then worked on the two RSL trials at 107.2 WIN FM, before becoming the drivetime presenter in 1999....
22:02:06 <ihope> ...In July 2001 Phil joined Wessex FM soon ..."
22:11:40 <ihope> http://pastebin.com/715432 <- makes little sense
22:14:36 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:14:44 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]").
22:20:27 * bsmntbombdood doesn't get it
22:21:18 <ihope> The pastebin thing, or the Google thing?
22:21:27 <bsmntbombdood> the pastebin
22:25:44 <bsmntbombdood> well, both
22:26:38 <ihope> The pastebin is a snip of stuff copied from Mirek's Cellebration.
22:26:48 <ihope> The Google thing is a proof that Google is magic.
22:28:38 <ihope> Ah, but Yahoo provides "sublinks" for the Wikipedia article on cow tipping!
22:31:05 <bsmntbombdood> it's amazing that they get any work done at google.
22:34:43 <ihope> Why?
22:34:53 <bsmntbombdood> "here, take this scooter and ride around all day."
22:35:16 <ihope> Boosting worker morale can't be bad :-P
22:36:13 <bsmntbombdood> I saw some pictures of a google office, and they just had a WHOLE BOWL full of m&ms on the counter
22:37:29 <ihope> Maybe that's just to lure workers in, and then they use them for slaves.
22:39:13 <bsmntbombdood> A WHOLE BOWL
22:40:37 <bsmntbombdood> just sitting there for anybody to eat
22:42:30 <bsmntbombdood> it's amazing
23:09:40 -!- Arrogant has joined.
23:39:23 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").

2006-06-18:

00:19:32 <bsmntbombdood> digital_me|away
00:19:59 <bsmntbombdood> digital_me|away
00:23:44 <SimonRC> hmm
00:23:49 <bsmntbombdood> sorry
00:23:58 <SimonRC> ?
00:24:09 <bsmntbombdood> mistake
00:24:43 <SimonRC> I was wondering how the heck you did that.
00:24:57 <bsmntbombdood> did what
00:25:33 <SimonRC> how you managed to accidently type "digital_me|away" twice
00:25:46 <bsmntbombdood> /amsg
00:25:52 <bsmntbombdood> :)
00:26:16 <SimonRC> hmm, ok
00:38:02 * SimonRC !!!!!s for a bit.
00:38:09 <SimonRC> “Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.� — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Göring during the Nuremberg Trials
00:39:04 <bsmntbombdood> it works in the US.
01:18:56 -!- fuse has joined.
01:20:10 <fuse> anyone awake?
01:20:22 <kipple> yup
01:20:38 <bsmntbombdood> yep
01:45:55 <Arrogant> nope
01:53:55 -!- fuse has quit ("GET TO WORK YOU LAZY BUM").
02:51:17 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:15:49 * SimonRC goes to bed
03:19:45 <Arrogant> Always going to bed...
04:57:05 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
05:39:53 -!- _coder_ has joined.
05:40:04 <_coder_> !help
05:40:11 <_coder_> !help esoteric
05:40:13 <_coder_> oh well
05:40:18 <_coder_> ARRGHEI
05:48:08 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:52:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:50:30 -!- tokigun has joined.
06:54:19 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
07:19:28 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:22:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:25:19 -!- Arrogant has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:54:55 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:55:18 -!- Arrogant has joined.
10:20:52 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
11:42:16 -!- kipple has joined.
11:51:56 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
13:52:47 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:00:28 <SimonRC> lolol:   http://archive.gamespy.com/dailyvictim/index.asp?id=465
15:44:38 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:59:09 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:09:52 -!- jix has joined.
16:47:23 -!- tgwizard has joined.
16:48:07 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:48:44 -!- tokigun has joined.
17:23:22 -!- mtve has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:13:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
18:44:49 <SimonRC> hmm, this guy has a haunted school:   http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?p=389361#389361
19:03:17 <bsmntbombdood> my school is haunted
19:03:23 <bsmntbombdood> too many teachers
21:17:30 <SimonRC> Ah, the wonders of automatically-generated C:
21:17:40 <SimonRC> "if (fp[-9] < *(int *)(*(int *)(fp[0]))) goto L_2;"
21:18:24 <SimonRC> Or the recurring gem:
21:18:32 <SimonRC> goto L_2;
21:18:39 <SimonRC> L_2:
21:18:41 <SimonRC> heh
21:21:42 <SimonRC> ooh, ooh, ooh, this snippet's even better:
21:21:47 <SimonRC> "goto L_18;
21:21:47 <SimonRC>     L_18:
21:21:47 <SimonRC>     fp[-8] = *(int *)((*(int *)(fp[0]) + (4 * (fp[-13] + 1))));
21:21:48 <SimonRC>     if (((fp[-1] < fp[-8]) == 0) == 1) goto L_20;"
21:22:16 <SimonRC> hehehe:
21:22:51 * SimonRC decides that finding ways to optimise this compiler won't be hard.
21:32:06 <bsmntbombdood> what's it a compiler for
21:32:41 <jix> go
21:35:07 <jix> done
21:35:43 <jix> hmm wasn't fast enough
22:06:22 <SimonRC> hehehe, someone has made a ringtone that pupils can hear but teachers can't:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/12/ringtone_adults_cannot_hear/
22:07:26 <SimonRC> what's most ironic, is that the sound was originally used as a sound to keep kids away from places.
22:27:49 <fizzie> I think that Mosquito was on slashdot or some such site. (And isn't that what they use Barry Manilow for? http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21498,19365341-421,00.html )
22:52:16 <SimonRC> ooh:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099892/trailers-screenplay-E10650-8-4
23:05:37 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").

2006-06-19:

00:08:36 -!- oerjanj has joined.
00:13:24 -!- oerjanj has quit (Client Quit).
01:04:09 -!- ihope` has joined.
01:04:34 <ihope`> What, this client only supports being in one channel at once?
01:05:34 <ihope`> Sheesh. I oughta just find an online TCP client.
01:11:40 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
01:26:45 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:29:52 * SimonRC goes to bed
01:37:36 <ihope`> So what does "pudo" mean?
01:39:34 <ihope`> Apparently it's the first person "pretérito perfecto simple" form of "poder".
02:00:41 -!- ihope` has quit.
02:32:00 -!- Arrogant has joined.
02:43:56 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
02:53:11 -!- ihope has joined.
03:00:10 <ihope> SimonRC: apparently I was going to tell you something the day before yesterday, as my chat client contained "SimonRC: "
03:28:19 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:45:28 -!- coder_ has joined.
04:12:44 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:19:22 -!- Arrogant has changed nick to Arro[gone]t.
04:20:21 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
04:34:53 -!- _coder_ has joined.
05:00:12 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
05:38:45 -!- mtve has joined.
06:02:50 -!- calamari has joined.
06:03:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:08:18 -!- Arro[gone]t has changed nick to Arrogant.
06:42:37 -!- kipple has joined.
07:06:20 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
07:41:17 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:53:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:08:32 -!- puzzlet has joined.
10:37:29 -!- jix has joined.
10:59:49 -!- sedimin has joined.
11:00:13 <sedimin> heya
11:13:53 -!- tgwizard has joined.
11:47:43 -!- sedimin has left (?).
12:07:53 -!- sedimin has joined.
14:19:21 -!- sedimin has left (?).
14:36:12 -!- ihope has joined.
16:24:05 -!- ChanServ has quit (Shutting Down).
16:24:37 -!- ChanServ has joined.
16:24:37 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
16:59:13 * SimonRC grins at the output of the Happy parser generator:  ..."happyReduction_3 _ _  = notHappyAtAll"...
17:13:25 <ihope> :-)
17:15:10 <ihope> Hmm...
17:15:14 <ihope> b::=~0
17:15:17 <ihope> b::=~1
17:15:21 <ihope> a::=ab
17:15:27 <ihope> ::=
17:15:29 <ihope> a
17:16:22 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
17:20:17 <ihope> But that isn't guaranteed to output anything at all.
17:59:54 -!- calamari has joined.
18:16:03 -!- calamari_ has joined.
18:24:46 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
18:29:05 -!- lindi- has joined.
18:30:06 -!- sedimin has joined.
18:30:16 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:31:35 -!- sedimin has left (?).
18:35:31 -!- calamari_ has changed nick to calamari.
19:44:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:34:55 <calamari> hi
20:45:16 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
20:51:13 -!- ihope_ has joined.
20:51:44 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:51:57 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
21:37:04 -!- ChanServ has quit (ACK! SIGSEGV!).
21:38:51 -!- ChanServ has joined.
21:38:51 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
22:33:02 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:38:36 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
23:50:36 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").

2006-06-20:

00:08:50 * SimonRC goes to bed
01:28:42 <ihope> So... Thuw.
01:28:45 <ihope> Thue, even.
01:30:17 <ihope> Ah, it's easy enough.
01:30:58 <ihope> You just need to have a series of "traversers", which move around, processing data.
01:32:48 <ihope> Essentially, they'd be functions on streams.
01:33:27 <ihope> If the traverser @ turned "foo" into "bar", you'd just have the production rule: @foo::=bar@
01:40:35 * bsmntbombdood starts reading the esolangs wiki on thue
01:43:32 <ihope> Let's see...
01:43:39 <ihope> 7::=4444444
01:44:48 <ihope> Wait, no.
01:45:13 <ihope> 8::=22222222
01:45:27 <ihope> 2::=$$$$$$$$$$$$
01:47:07 <bsmntbombdood> what are you trying to d
01:47:15 <ihope> I'm trying to write a beer program.
01:47:47 <ihope> $::=#%(.)!!# %(,)!#@.!^!
01:48:45 <ihope> I'm sure it's less scary than it looks.
01:49:56 <ihope> []%::=[beer]
01:50:03 <ihope> beer::= bottles of beer on the wall
01:50:26 <ihope> Oh, that up there should be $::=#%(.)!!#%(,)!#@.!^!
01:50:38 <ihope> And beer::=~ bottles of beer on the wall
01:51:31 <ihope> []!::=[newline]
01:51:35 <ihope> newline::=~
01:52:25 <ihope> []@::=[bottles]
01:52:35 <ihope> bottles::=~ bottles of beer
01:53:01 <ihope> More changes: $::=#%(.)!!#%(,)!#@(.)!^!
01:53:23 <ihope> []^::=[take]
01:53:27 <bsmntbombdood> how about you do this in an editor, then show us when you're done
01:53:33 <ihope> Good idea.
01:58:35 <bsmntbombdood> I don't want to ruin your fun, but there is an implementation here http://lvogel.free.fr/thue/beer.t
02:06:29 <ihope> Okay, I have no idea how that works, but it's better than my implementation :-)
02:26:40 <bsmntbombdood> I'm having some trouble with the random order
02:27:05 <ihope> What's the trouble?
02:28:28 <bsmntbombdood> never mind
02:29:04 <bsmntbombdood> it's just weird
03:39:39 -!- ihope has changed nick to espero.
03:40:02 -!- espero has changed nick to ihope.
03:42:05 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
03:43:33 -!- _coder_ has joined.
03:43:45 -!- _coder_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:03:37 -!- _coder_ has joined.
04:10:30 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
04:22:55 -!- calamari has joined.
04:54:23 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:55:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:57:44 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:17:54 -!- jix has joined.
08:26:07 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
08:28:14 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
09:01:34 -!- W_work has joined.
09:33:38 <SimonRC> W_work: you don't seem familiar
09:35:00 <W_work> probably because I'm not
09:35:09 <W_work> familiar to you that is
09:36:00 <W_work> just thought I'd hang around, one of these days I'll get around to writing down one of the esoteric languages I have running around in my brain
09:36:25 -!- tgwizard has joined.
10:01:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
10:13:12 <SimonRC> heh
10:13:26 <SimonRC> where did you find us from?
10:14:40 <W_work> Wikipedia -> esoteric wiki main page -> joke language list -> IRP
10:31:09 <SimonRC> cool
10:31:38 * SimonRC started all this by reading the column on esolangs in NewScientist
10:31:43 <SimonRC> about 1998 IIRC
10:53:30 <W_work> "all this" being?
12:06:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:12:42 -!- puzzlet has joined.
13:09:20 -!- jix has joined.
14:09:34 -!- ihope has joined.
15:17:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
15:17:40 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
15:46:39 <ihope> Hmm, whoops.
15:47:32 <W_work> "whoops"?
15:49:31 <ihope> My Thue program didn't work.
15:49:43 <ihope> Hopefully it works now...
15:49:56 <ihope> That is, it works now.
15:49:58 <ihope> http://pastebin.com/720995
15:51:03 <W_work> pastebin is really slow for me today
15:51:10 <W_work> also, it has no syntax highlighting for thue
15:52:23 <ihope> :-)
15:52:49 <ihope> Well, you start with a string like "+{1101}", containing a number in binary.
15:53:42 <ihope> It'll inject a "bubble" into the number, as well as a marker to keep it from injecting too many bubbles: "+{&%1101}", where % is the bubble and & is the marker.
15:54:32 <ihope> This bubble "flows" to the end of the number: "+{&1101%}". After that, it picks up a number to produce "
15:54:40 <ihope> Oops, erm.
15:55:14 <ihope> This bubble "flows" to the end of the number: "+{&1101%}". After that, it "picks up" a number to produce "+{&110(1)}", then it flows back to the beginning: "+{&(1)110}"
15:56:27 <ihope> Then it pops out of the number entirely, giving "+(1){110}", which becomes "$#+{110}". That is, the bubble becomes $# as it pops out of the +.
15:57:44 <ihope> Then the + injects another bubble, which carries a 0 to the front, and that just becomes #, producing "$##+{11}", then a 1 is carried out, producing "$##$#+{1}", and another 1, making "$##$#$#+{}".
15:58:31 <ihope> The +{} becomes [], so we're left with "$##$#$#[]". The # acts as a prefix doubling operator, using a ^ bubble, and the $ is a prefix increment.
15:58:57 <ihope> Finally, we're left with the result: "[*************]".
15:59:53 <W_work> so it's a repeater
16:00:06 <ihope> It's a converter.
16:00:14 <W_work> well all Thue programs are converters
16:00:17 <ihope> It turns a binary number into a so-called unary number.
16:00:29 <W_work> this one converts a binary representation of a number to its unary representation
16:00:33 <W_work> yeah
16:00:40 <ihope> One could argue that all programs are converters.
16:00:56 <W_work> one could, were one perverse
16:01:01 <W_work> then again I guess we all are, here
16:06:15 <ihope> ?? ideas
16:06:17 <ihope> Oops.
18:37:26 -!- tgwizard has joined.
18:56:35 <ihope> English: the most esoteric language of them all!
18:56:52 <ihope> It's ambiguous AND contradictory...
18:57:53 -!- _W_ has joined.
19:00:44 <lament> YOUR MOM is ambiguous and contradictory.
19:06:33 <_W_> ihope, I do not think that word means what you think it means.
19:07:03 <ihope> What word?
19:07:05 <ihope> Esoteric?
19:07:29 <_W_> yes
19:08:12 <ihope> Does it essentially mean "cryptic" or "obfuscated"?
19:08:24 <ihope> Or "hidden from knowledge", or something?
19:09:33 <_W_> not really
19:10:27 <ihope> "Knowable only by a select few"?
19:11:08 <_W_> I would say english is knowable by pretty much everyone, and is hardly perverse or obscure
19:11:21 <ihope> Yeah, I guess you're right.
19:11:50 <_W_> lament, you realize someone (most likely me) will write a programming language called YOUR MOM now, right?
19:34:40 <lament> go right ahead
19:35:07 <SimonRC> ``< W_work> "all this" being?'' -- my interest in esolangs
19:39:26 <SimonRC> "Dear ITS: In an HTML page, you don't need to wrap text manually using <BR>.  Web browsers can automatically wrap text within a paragraph, and this automatic wrapping may even interact badly with manual wrapping.  Yours, Simon (d41dp5)." --   http://www.dur.ac.uk/its/services/email/block/
19:39:40 <SimonRC> the URL is a reference, not a source, BTW
19:51:35 * ihope giggles
19:54:04 -!- tgwizard has changed nick to Someone.
19:54:18 -!- Someone has changed nick to tgwizard.
20:04:09 -!- fizzie has joined.
20:41:39 <ihope> So they call themselves TOYS "Я" US...
20:41:45 <ihope> >:-)
20:44:26 <ihope> Тхи� и� нот Ру��иан.
20:44:47 <ihope> Ит маы лоок лике ит, бут ит и�, ин фацт, Енглиш.
20:45:02 <ihope> Um... so where can I post my gibberish?
21:23:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:23:20 <_W_> <gibberish.txt >/dev/null
21:25:38 <ihope> :-P
22:14:49 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
22:23:00 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:43:32 * SimonRC goes to get pizza
23:47:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).

2006-06-21:

00:04:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
01:02:01 <ihope> So why do I need to inject an "equal guard" but not an "add guard"?
01:03:40 <ihope> I guess it's just because you can stick an equal bubble to the left of an add bubble, but you can't but an equal bubble to the left of another equal bubble.
01:04:34 <ihope> It looks like you can stick anything to the left of an add bubble, but you can't put anything to the left of an equal bubble.
01:12:33 -!- _W_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:13:19 -!- _W_ has joined.
01:17:10 -!- W_ has joined.
01:32:20 -!- _W_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
01:38:04 <ihope> I think {add} may be unique in not requiring a guard like that one.
01:39:22 <ihope> Well, not really.
01:39:39 <ihope> If {foo}[bar][baz] is at least [bar], you don't need a guard.
02:15:28 -!- _W_ has joined.
02:28:17 <ihope> So, uh, Kenan Thompson...
02:28:36 <ihope> (That was not an address.)
02:29:23 <ihope> Or... wait...
02:31:01 <ihope> Yeah, I think so.
02:31:24 <ihope> When I heard that "Hey, hey, hey!", I immediately thought of Aahz, from the Myth series.
02:32:29 -!- W_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:32:54 <ihope> Or the MythAdventures series, I guess it's called.
02:45:31 -!- ihope has quit ("¡Adiós!").
03:11:05 -!- Arrogant has joined.
03:11:15 -!- rabidpoobear has joined.
03:11:18 <rabidpoobear> ARROGANT!
03:11:18 <rabidpoobear> :D
03:11:26 <Arrogant> :D
03:11:35 <rabidpoobear> I saw you join #python :)
03:11:54 <Arrogant> If you are looking for more esoteric material from me I have been very lacking in that area! :(
03:11:58 * Arrogant auto-joins lots o' channels
03:17:20 <rabidpoobear> ah
03:17:31 <rabidpoobear> I'm off to watch High Tension
03:17:43 <Arrogant> Have fun with that
03:17:48 * Arrogant goes back to writing ioparsing
03:18:05 <rabidpoobear> I was temporarily vexed when I thought I had a dubbed version, only to realize that DVDs have a cool feature where they have more than one audio track, and it came with the original French.
03:18:48 <rabidpoobear> Subtitles + original language = scarier than cheesy dubbing
03:19:08 <Arrogant> Hehe
03:19:20 <rabidpoobear> are yo udone with synesthesia?
03:19:24 <Arrogant> I'd rather watch good dubbed though
03:19:30 <Arrogant> Nah, I broke it and never bothered to fix it
03:19:42 <Arrogant> Going to rewrite the parser in Io once I finish writing the parser lib
03:20:14 <Arrogant> Io is almost esoteric in its own right ;)
05:04:40 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
05:32:14 -!- Arrogant has joined.
06:48:19 -!- Arrogant has quit ("skipTo(morning)").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:49:57 -!- nooga has joined.
08:50:03 <nooga> hiho
09:01:09 -!- CXI has joined.
09:03:06 -!- CXI has quit (Client Quit).
09:03:19 -!- CXI has joined.
09:05:58 -!- CXI has quit (Client Quit).
09:06:06 -!- CXI has joined.
09:15:55 -!- nooga has quit.
09:25:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
10:00:38 -!- rabidpoobear has quit.
10:34:48 -!- tgwizard has joined.
11:08:14 <SimonRC> # I drank some champagne from your shoe. #
11:08:30 <SimonRC> # I was drunk by the time I got through, #
11:08:47 <SimonRC> # For I didn't know as I raised the cup #
11:09:01 <SimonRC> # It had taken 2 bottles to fill the thing up. #
11:09:06 <SimonRC> :-)
11:39:05 <SimonRC> "The lesser-studied probems of number theory:  Factoring primes and finding composites"
12:06:18 <W_work> heh
12:07:03 <W_work> int[] findFactorsOfPrime(int prime){return new int[]{1,prime};}
13:26:40 -!- Arrogant has joined.
13:52:40 -!- jix has joined.
14:08:23 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
15:30:10 -!- _W_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:30:11 -!- sekhmet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
15:30:34 -!- _W_ has joined.
15:30:34 -!- sekhmet has joined.
15:33:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:34:03 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:37:20 -!- Keymaker has joined.
15:38:11 <Keymaker> hello
15:53:12 <SimonRC> hi
15:57:18 <Keymaker> hey
16:07:45 <Keymaker> grhh. gotta go. bye :D
16:07:49 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
16:31:52 -!- kipple has joined.
19:12:23 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
19:14:09 -!- calamari has joined.
19:35:34 -!- tgwizard has joined.
20:28:13 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:28:59 -!- kipple has joined.
20:29:57 -!- kipple has quit (Client Quit).
20:31:12 -!- kipple has joined.
20:58:59 -!- _coder_ has joined.
21:04:02 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:12:06 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
22:05:32 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
22:05:53 -!- Arrogant has joined.
22:10:34 -!- Keymaker has joined.
22:11:03 <Keymaker> hi
22:11:16 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:12:09 <Arrogant> Hi.
22:12:18 <Keymaker> hi
22:14:34 <Arrogant> Hey.
22:15:30 <Keymaker> hello
22:15:40 <Keymaker> (this is interesting!)
22:18:58 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:21:30 -!- ChanServ has joined.
22:21:30 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
22:26:54 <Arrogant> Keymaker
22:26:57 <Arrogant> Are you good at making keys
22:40:40 <Keymaker> me? never tried :P i got my name from the matrix 2 :)
22:41:11 <Keymaker> (sorry about delay..)
22:57:35 <Arrogant> 'sokay.
22:57:43 <Arrogant> How about esoteric languages?
22:58:01 <Keymaker> (sorry about delay again)
22:58:16 <Keymaker> dunno if i'm good, but check out bf-hacks.org ;)
22:58:42 <Keymaker> and koti.mbnet.fi/yiap, althought both should be updated some day..
22:59:02 <Keymaker> (hey, nice, i wasn't this time so delayed in my reply:))
22:59:41 <Arrogant> Not at all
23:00:24 <Keymaker> well, i'm just doing it for fun and not for any competing in skills
23:02:10 * Arrogant mostly does designing
23:08:22 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
23:36:42 * SimonRC finds the terrible pun that a wand of striking makes when you engrave with it

2006-06-22:

00:13:07 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:13:44 -!- fizzie has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:44 -!- pgimeno has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:44 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:44 -!- Keymaker has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:44 -!- kipple has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:45 -!- sekhmet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:45 -!- _W_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:45 -!- tgwizard has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:46 -!- sp3tt has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:46 -!- puzzlet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:47 -!- CXI has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:47 -!- W_work has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:47 -!- tokigun has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:47 -!- SimonRC has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:47 -!- mtve has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:13:48 -!- lindi- has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:14:51 -!- lament has quit ("Reconnecting").
00:15:12 -!- ChanServ has joined.
00:15:12 -!- Keymaker has joined.
00:15:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
00:15:12 -!- kipple has joined.
00:15:12 -!- tgwizard has joined.
00:15:12 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:15:12 -!- sekhmet has joined.
00:15:12 -!- _W_ has joined.
00:15:12 -!- CXI has joined.
00:15:12 -!- fizzie has joined.
00:15:12 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
00:15:12 -!- W_work has joined.
00:15:12 -!- lindi- has joined.
00:15:12 -!- mtve has joined.
00:15:12 -!- tokigun has joined.
00:15:12 -!- pgimeno has joined.
00:15:12 -!- sp3tt has joined.
00:15:12 -!- SimonRC has joined.
00:15:12 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
00:15:17 -!- lament has joined.
00:16:24 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
00:18:19 -!- cmeme has joined.
00:20:31 <SimonRC> hi
00:20:45 <Keymaker> hey
00:46:41 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:50:52 -!- calamari has joined.
01:53:18 -!- Rugxulo has joined.
02:03:00 * SimonRC goes to bed
02:03:08 <Keymaker> hmm, wise plan
02:57:22 <Keymaker> bye.. 5 am :D
02:57:30 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
03:21:36 -!- Rugxulo has left (?).
03:38:55 -!- _coder_ has joined.
04:00:18 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:00:44 -!- CXI has joined.
05:56:18 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:03:36 -!- nooga has joined.
08:03:43 <nooga> h
08:03:44 <nooga> i
08:34:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:14:52 -!- nooga has quit.
09:49:49 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:56:54 -!- W_ork has joined.
09:59:30 -!- tgwizard has joined.
10:05:57 -!- calamari has joined.
10:14:52 -!- W_work has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:32:39 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
12:38:35 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:40:16 -!- jix has joined.
14:04:19 -!- tgwizard has joined.
14:12:34 <SimonRC> An American would think nothing of driving 100 miles to go shopping, but a European would thing nothing of walking 100 yards to go shopping.  :-)
14:54:11 <W_ork> and some of us think both are out of the question
15:53:10 -!- kipple has joined.
16:44:21 -!- ihope has joined.
17:30:18 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:31:23 -!- Keymaker has joined.
20:28:08 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:33:01 -!- ihope has changed nick to Croesus.
20:33:45 -!- Croesus has changed nick to Cahjo-TZ.
20:34:03 -!- Cahjo-TZ has changed nick to ihope.
20:37:10 <SimonRC> not only:   http://alcopop.org/temp/O/Come/All/Ye/FaithfulO/come/all/ye/faithful/joyful/and/triumphant/Come/ye/O/come/ye/to/Bethlehem/Come/and/behold/Him/born/the/King/of/angelsRefrainO/come/let/us/adore/Him/O/come/let/us/adore/Him/O/come/let/us/adore/Him/Christ/the/Lord/README
20:37:28 <SimonRC> but also:  http://alcopop.org/temp/O/Come/All/Ye/FaithfulO/come/all/ye/faithful/joyful/and/triumphant/Come/ye/O/come/ye/to/Bethlehem/Come/and/behold/Him/born/the/King/of/angelsRefrainO/come/let/us/adore/Him/O/come/let/us/adore/Him/O/come/let/us/adore/Him/Christ/the/Lord/we/need/to/go/a/little/further/to/get/past/the/256/char/path/limit/in/squid/
20:37:33 <SimonRC> :-D
20:37:36 <SimonRC> (I know that guy)
20:55:05 <Sgeo> In my school, they had "Come, All Ye Faithful" played at the holiday concert >:(
21:53:03 -!- GregorR-P has joined.
21:53:28 <GregorR-P> I'm in England 8-D
21:54:19 <ihope> What's the P?
21:54:51 <GregorR-P> Palmtop
22:07:06 <jix> i'll go to England soon
22:07:19 <jix> in... 2 days
22:07:50 <ihope> I'll go to England eventually.
22:10:27 <lament> england sucks at soccer!
22:16:30 -!- GregorR-P has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:34:10 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:46:11 <Keymaker> cool, gregorr in england! for some reason i always think you're british, and then remember you're american
22:46:41 <Keymaker> i was in england a few months ago
22:46:49 <Keymaker> :)
22:52:24 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:54:17 -!- ChanServ has joined.
22:54:17 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
22:58:59 <ihope> Um, mini-netsplit?
23:04:48 <SimonRC> heh:  http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29298
23:05:21 <SimonRC> Tell GregorR-P I am also in England.
23:05:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:33:04 <_W_> the onion fail to disappoint again
23:47:19 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
23:51:49 <ihope> Type "the" into the address bar and see what happens.

2006-06-23:

00:01:52 <_W_> I wind up on my own domain
00:20:59 <bsmntbombdood> I end up at the onion
00:34:33 <ihope> I do to.
00:34:37 <ihope> s/to/too/
00:34:45 <ihope> Not to be confused with s/to/too/g.
00:35:33 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
00:54:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood|di.
01:16:46 -!- bsmntbombdood|di has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
02:11:41 <ihope> Word of the day: "wherever".
02:44:56 -!- ihope has quit ("�ん。").
06:03:38 -!- Arrogant has joined.
06:04:39 -!- calamari has joined.
06:19:56 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- cmeme has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- _W_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- sekhmet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- calamari has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- Arrogant has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- W_ork has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:56 -!- sp3tt has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- SimonRC has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- tokigun has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- CXI has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- lament has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- mtve has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:19:57 -!- ChanServ has joined.
06:19:57 -!- calamari has joined.
06:19:57 -!- Arrogant has joined.
06:19:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
06:19:57 -!- Sgeo has joined.
06:19:57 -!- W_ork has joined.
06:19:57 -!- CXI has joined.
06:19:57 -!- cmeme has joined.
06:19:57 -!- lament has joined.
06:19:57 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:19:57 -!- sekhmet has joined.
06:19:57 -!- _W_ has joined.
06:19:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
06:19:57 -!- mtve has joined.
06:19:57 -!- tokigun has joined.
06:19:57 -!- sp3tt has joined.
06:19:57 -!- SimonRC has joined.
06:19:57 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:25:05 -!- nooga has joined.
08:25:10 <nooga> hi
08:28:14 <W_ork> And a glorious morning to you!
08:28:36 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
08:48:41 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:30:38 -!- jix has joined.
10:28:09 -!- tgwizard has joined.
10:33:12 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
10:42:19 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
11:02:06 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
11:15:11 -!- lament_ has joined.
11:20:14 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:23:45 -!- nooga has quit.
11:54:30 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:06:46 -!- jix has joined.
14:59:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:05:13 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:16:44 -!- ihope has joined.
16:18:42 <ihope> Bleh, I forgot what that one IRC server was.
16:52:17 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
16:58:45 -!- ihope_ has joined.
17:00:29 <ihope_> Hola.
17:16:57 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:50:26 * SimonRC goes to bed
17:50:42 -!- lament_ has changed nick to lament.
18:59:41 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
19:16:06 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:16:37 <Sgeo> No all!
19:37:09 -!- GregorR has joined.
19:47:49 -!- GregorR has left (?).
19:53:45 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:54:38 -!- jix has joined.
20:10:53 <ihope_> No.
20:13:15 * ihope_ invents an esolang and calls it "Monads! Monads! Monads!"
20:30:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:42:19 <ihope_> Sgeo: what was that IRC place you pointed me at?
20:42:26 <Sgeo> Sine?
20:44:24 <Sgeo> ihope_: Did you see my PM?
20:58:09 <ihope_> Got it. Thanks/
21:27:08 -!- Keymaker has joined.
21:27:33 <Keymaker> ey
21:28:01 <ihope_> Ello.
21:28:07 <ihope_> Ow are you doing?
21:28:31 <Keymaker> well, fine i guess.. i think i should have fun but it's not fun now. :)
21:29:41 <Keymaker> i'll try to either plan more of the eso stuff i've been doing, or then try programming something
21:32:22 * ihope_ thinks
21:32:46 <ihope_> A language in which functions can't return...
21:33:08 <Keymaker> aargh. that's one of my plans!
21:33:24 <Keymaker> it would work pretty well, i think
21:34:03 <ihope_> A language in which functions can't return is one of your plans?
21:34:17 <Keymaker> wait..
21:35:26 <Keymaker> blah, this specs is so messy..
21:35:34 <Keymaker> nothing useful to paste :)
21:36:22 <Keymaker> i guess i can only blame myself for not being fast enough and just keeping things on mind or paper until it's too late:(
21:36:26 * Keymaker suicides
21:37:29 <Keymaker> this specs was named 'afl', kinda like in awful. no idea whether it sounds any same :D
21:37:52 <Keymaker> afl from 'a functional language', although it wouldn't really be, i guess:)
21:40:11 <_W_> hey, what's the point of continuations, as in the syntax for a language?
21:40:28 <Keymaker> continuations?
21:40:32 <_W_> the canonical example being print(x,square) where square(x) returns the square of x
21:40:46 <_W_> yeah, an extra argument to a function that says where the function should return its value to
21:41:10 <Keymaker> i don't know anything. sorry
21:41:13 <ihope_> The syntax?
21:41:13 <_W_> wait, bad example
21:41:26 <_W_> ihope_, ok, it's got nothing to do with the syntax?
21:41:30 <ihope_> add(x, y, z) = z(x+y)
21:41:40 <_W_> for instance yes
21:41:43 <ihope_> No, nothing to do with syntax, as long as you can call variables :-)
21:42:19 <_W_> but there was this page, that went on about how continuations could be implemented without a stack, that you could just long jump etc
21:42:37 <ihope_> Ooh.
21:42:39 <_W_> but to me that doesn't really seem different from how regular functions are implemented
21:43:19 <_W_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuations
21:43:28 <Keymaker> ihope: can i try finishing afl, or will you start working on that idea (that i've had too!), or..?
21:43:42 <ihope_> Um...
21:43:46 <_W_> oh wait
21:43:49 <ihope_> Just what's AFL
21:43:56 <_W_> that page describes something other than what I was reading about
21:44:05 <Keymaker> "this specs was named 'afl', kinda like in awful. no idea whether it sounds any same"
21:44:11 <Keymaker> (i just quoted myself)
21:45:11 <Keymaker> just read what a few mins ago! :)
21:45:13 <_W_> soundex('afl')='A140', soundex('awful')='A140'
21:45:17 <Keymaker> *what i said
21:45:29 <Keymaker> does it mean it sounds same? :D
21:45:33 <ihope_> soundex?
21:45:34 <_W_> similar
21:45:40 <Keymaker> ah, great!
21:45:57 <_W_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundex
21:46:52 <Keymaker> ihope..?
21:48:03 <ihope_> Hmm?
21:48:12 <Keymaker> i asked you a question minutes ago..
21:48:37 <Keymaker> can i work on afl, OR do you want to use the idea as you were the first to say it in public
21:49:11 <ihope_> Why not work on it?
21:49:16 <Keymaker> me?
21:49:21 <ihope_> Yeah.
21:49:26 <Keymaker> i'd like to!
21:49:32 <ihope_> I don't think I was the first to come up with it...
21:49:39 <Keymaker> a.
21:49:58 <ihope_> I'll let you do the log-sifting. :-P
21:50:12 <Keymaker> sorry, i don't get that :D
21:50:16 <_W_> there's already a lot of esolangs with duplicate ideas, a few more won't hurt
21:50:28 <Keymaker> i don't understand what log-sifting is..
21:50:57 <ihope_> Look through the channel logs.
21:50:57 <_W_> do you understand the concept of a chat log? and know what sifting means?
21:51:11 <_W_> if so, just combine the concepts until it makes sense :p
21:51:22 <Keymaker> aah.
21:51:24 <Keymaker> i see now
21:51:26 <Keymaker> :P
21:51:28 <Keymaker> damn
21:52:17 <Keymaker> i'm too lazy to browse the logs.. what if i just use the idea, as i thought of it before hearing it anywhere. i guess it wouldn't harm anyone
21:52:28 <_W_> is it a bad idea to write a compiler that compiles to java bytecode?
21:52:41 <_W_> I'd hate to have to read up on how modern cpus does things
21:52:54 <ihope_> _W_: well, Java is generally compiled to Java bytecode, so it couldn't be *too* bad.
21:53:23 <_W_> yeah I'm liking the idea, I'm just curious if there's any good reasons not to
21:54:37 * Keymaker starts to plan/write specs
21:55:06 <Keymaker> this most likely won't be turing-tarpit..
21:55:08 <ihope_> And I'll write mine, and hope we both post to the wiki at exactly the same time!
21:55:17 <Keymaker> :)
21:55:54 <Keymaker> well, maybe i shouldn't in that case. it may take days for me, and then people'd just think i ripped your idea
21:56:24 <ihope_> What if I rot-13'd it, so nobody would be able to figure it out? :-P
21:56:30 <Keymaker> :D
21:57:33 <Keymaker> or then don't post in wiki before i do, and we could just agree here when to post..?
21:57:48 <Keymaker> and select the same time:D
21:57:54 <ihope_> Heh.
21:58:33 <ihope_> I could wait for you to finish before posting.
21:58:40 <ihope_> That way, my language will be better :-P
21:58:46 <Keymaker> :)
21:58:50 <Keymaker> well, you can do that if you want to
21:59:08 <ihope_> It seems that displaying the current state of a cellular automaton is the slowest part of this program. The second fastest way to do things seems to be in the period checker with the display turned off.
21:59:20 <ihope_> Turing the display on slows it down by a factor of about 20.
22:11:04 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
22:13:06 <_W_> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/CHIQRSX9_Plus lol
22:13:13 <_W_> Command  X  Makes the programming language Turing-complete. How this is supposed to be achieved is not clearly specified. (The Perl implementation generates a random number, adds it to each character in the program, and interprets the resulting program code as Perl code.)
22:13:37 <Keymaker> blah.. i'll use the basic idea of this language a bit, but it won't be a functional language or anything anymore. so, feel free to post whenever you're done ihope, as this will be entirely different and likely take days or be abandoned :)
22:15:44 <Keymaker> (this shows pretty much how i always work on my langs..)
22:22:02 <_W_> what's a compact and readable way of encoding a (non-directed non-weighted) graph in a string?
22:29:27 <ihope_> Um...
22:29:49 <ihope_> You mean the dots connected with lines?
22:31:26 <_W_> yes
22:31:52 <_W_> I'd like something where it's easy to spot whether the graph is a plain ring, for instance, or a fully connected star topology
22:32:26 <ihope_> Hmm...
22:32:50 <ihope_> Stuff like "A-B-C-D-E-A", where the letters are nodes and the dashes are links?
22:33:12 <_W_> I could just do something like 1:2,3,4;2:1,3,4;3:1,2,4;4:1,2,3;
22:33:23 <_W_> but it would be redundant
22:33:30 <ihope_> What's that?
22:34:00 <_W_> just <node number>:<comma separated list of nodes that connect to it>;...
22:34:10 <ihope_> Ah.
22:34:11 <_W_> star topology with four nodes
22:34:30 <ihope_> Well, there's <node number>:<higher-numbered nodes connecting to it>.
22:34:39 <_W_> trees are so much simpler :(
22:35:02 <_W_> yes ihope_, that removes the redundancy, but it's much harder to spot what kind of graph it is
22:35:26 <_W_> I was hoping someone had had the same problem and come up with something smart
22:35:37 <ihope_> Well, you could use one form for compactness and another for readability.
22:36:01 <_W_> I guess
22:36:31 <_W_> I could just say "define a graph, in whatever format you prefer", and let people use a png diagram if they wanted
22:36:43 <_W_> kind of hard to write a compiler for that tho :p
22:41:10 <ihope_> Wait... is this some esolang defined as a graph?
22:42:14 <_W_> yes
22:42:40 <ihope_> Ah. Well, Unlambda didn't care about readability, so...
22:42:44 <_W_> hehe
22:42:46 <_W_> kk
22:43:09 <_W_> I'll just do the "enumerate connected higher nodes" for low and leave it up to posterity to make it prettier
22:43:44 <_W_> too few useful non-deterministic languages out there
22:43:54 <_W_> so I'm making one and then seeing if it's useful
22:44:00 <ihope_> Heh.
22:44:35 <_W_> s/for low/for now/
22:46:20 <lament> Thue is useful
22:46:41 <lament> in general, non-deterministic languages seem useful only when you avoid the non-deterministic features
22:46:44 <_W_> show an example of non-determinism used in a constructive way with thue
22:46:50 <_W_> exactly
22:46:58 <_W_> I'd like to see if it isn't possible to change that
22:47:41 <_W_> there's certainly applications for non-deterministic behaviour, go AIs for instance mostly use monte carlo algorithms
22:49:02 <lament> i wouldn't write a Go AI in an esoteric language
22:51:34 * ihope_ claims the esolang names "Snake" and "Plane"
22:52:20 <Keymaker> heh
22:52:58 <_W_> lament, I know, just an example heh
22:53:10 <_W_> if you could, without going insane, the language wouldn't be esoteric for long
22:56:09 * lament claims the esolang name "On a mutherfucking"
22:58:38 * ihope_ un-claims "Snake" and gets "Snakes" instead
23:15:04 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).

2006-06-24:

00:55:38 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
01:03:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
02:56:57 <ihope_> Hmm, UTF-21.
03:04:09 -!- Arrogant has joined.
03:32:32 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
03:37:33 -!- Arrogant has joined.
03:37:40 -!- _coder_ has joined.
03:57:18 -!- ihope_ has quit ("¡Adiós!").
04:41:07 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
04:59:05 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
06:00:11 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:01:04 -!- Arrogant has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:27:43 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
08:59:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:06:24 -!- jix has joined.
11:39:55 -!- Arrogant_ has joined.
11:46:05 -!- Arrogant has quit (Nick collision from services.).
11:46:09 -!- Arrogant_ has changed nick to Arrogant.
12:54:33 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
14:34:32 <_W_> the wiki down, or just unreachable by me?
15:33:29 <SimonRC> _W_: what were you saying about graphs earlier?
16:37:43 <_W_> I'm just looking for a nice way to represent them.
16:38:30 <_W_> If the statements in a program are nodes in a graph, how do I write what nodes are connected
16:51:56 <pgimeno> flowcharts are graphs representing statements in programs
16:54:12 <_W_> we're talking textual representation tho
16:54:38 <_W_> and these graphs are just slightly more flexible
16:59:35 <pgimeno> oh, sorry
17:01:00 <_W_> pgimeno, I'm making a non-deterministic esolang, where the next node executed after one node is completed is random among those connected to it
17:05:11 -!- tgwizard has joined.
17:06:20 <pgimeno> I see, kind of a Thue with graphs right?
17:06:59 <_W_> not really
17:07:37 <_W_> it's threaded, and you have, for instance, a "fork" node
17:08:46 <_W_> beyond that I'm still experimenting
17:09:31 <_W_> I don't want it to be impossible to write a program which has a high probability of outputting "Hello, world!" and nothing else
17:11:43 <pgimeno> 10 LET A=A+1 GOTO 20,30,40
17:12:03 <_W_> yeah that's an idea, except it shouldn't be a directed graph
17:12:16 <_W_> but I guess I could let the gotos be comefrom's as well
17:12:23 <pgimeno> 10 LET A=A+1 COMEFROM 20,30,40
17:12:40 <_W_> 10 LET A=A+1 GOTOORCOMEFROM 20,30,40
17:12:47 <pgimeno> yuck
17:13:42 * pgimeno thinks Malbolge is enough evilness for him
17:20:35 <pgimeno> wow... http://72.14.221.104/search?q=cache:vcsZz5FfPo8J:www.sakabe.i.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~nishida/DB/pdf/iizawa05ss2005-22.pdf+programming+method+obfuscated+language+malbolge&hl=es&ct=clnk&cd=5
17:23:07 <_W_> heh
17:30:20 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:19:07 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
19:43:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:23:14 -!- ihope has joined.
20:23:40 <ihope> I'd like a language that, while easy to interpret, is almost impossible to decompile.
20:23:55 <ihope> And almost impossible to modify in a predictable way.
20:24:32 <ihope> It wouldn't, however, be difficult to compile to.
20:28:05 <ihope> Not that you'd want to write in this language directly: if you wanted to make a change, no matter how trivial, you'd have to start over.
20:28:32 <ihope> I guess SNOBOL sort of meets these criteria, but it
20:28:37 <ihope> 's not easy to interpret.
20:28:53 <ihope> I suppose reversible cellular automata might help.
20:33:21 <ihope> Construct some machine that has an input, an output, and Something Else.
20:33:35 <ihope> Feed it the input and the output, and collect the Something Else. There's your program.
20:33:49 <ihope> Then to run it, feed in the input and the Something Else to get the output.
20:47:26 <ihope> It'd be a black box of computing.
21:11:12 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
21:11:40 <SimonRC> omglolzorz:  http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189379&cid=15593478
21:11:54 <SimonRC> (read the slashdot story for context)
21:17:15 <_W_> ihope, there can't ever be such a thing
21:17:26 <ihope> Why not?
21:17:38 <_W_> unpossible
21:17:50 <ihope> ...
21:17:52 <ihope> Why?
21:18:57 <_W_> worst possible case, you could just brute force all the possible inputs
21:19:05 <_W_> and decompile from that
21:19:46 <_W_> also, no such thing as a black box
21:20:01 <_W_> all boxes CAN be picked apart, one way or another
21:20:24 <_W_> "black box" is a way to think of something, not an actual thing
21:20:49 <ihope> Brute force can be infeasible.
21:21:04 <_W_> in _practice_ yes, but I was assuming you were talking theory
21:21:17 <ihope> Nope, I'm tlaking practice.
21:21:30 <_W_> in _practice_ any irreversible obfuscation is bound to make a program too slow
21:22:38 <_W_> and if you allow physical barriers, such a self-destruct on opening, it's just a matter of locking a computer including software into such a box
21:22:48 <_W_> nothing complex needed
21:24:02 <_W_> (and you could still reverse engineer, and create an equivalent program yourself, and modify that)
21:24:16 <_W_> it's a lost cause really
21:24:17 <ihope> What if you ran the programs on hardware designed to interpret the language?
21:24:40 <_W_> hardware that can't be picked apart you mean? (see my self-destructing box)
21:25:00 <_W_> you don't need a separate language
21:25:16 <_W_> a regular x86 or whatever is all you need, just lock it into such a box
21:27:28 <ihope> Nope. Crystal-clear hardware designed to run opaque software.
21:28:03 <_W_> if you can analyse the hardware, you can replicate it, and modify it
21:28:51 <ihope> Sure, you can modify the hardware, but the software would still be semi-immutable.
21:29:28 <_W_> also, how do you propose to make this software uncleanable?
21:29:37 <ihope> Uncleanable?
21:29:46 <ihope> As in clean room?
21:30:07 <_W_> no
21:30:14 <_W_> as in undecompilable
21:30:47 <ihope> I dunno.
21:30:57 <ihope> I was just wondering if it was possible.
21:30:57 <_W_> what kind of language do you envision that can't be decompiled to, say C, and refactored until it made sense
21:31:17 <_W_> theoretically or practically?
21:31:20 <SimonRC> the problem with programs that are hard to decompile is thay may very well be hard to compile.interpret, too
21:31:32 <SimonRC> s/\./\//
21:31:35 <ihope> Practically unbreakable.
21:31:49 <_W_> ihope, you'd have to make some revolutionary breakthrough
21:31:53 <ihope> And practical to run and such.
21:32:00 <_W_> noone who have tried so far have come close (see: copy protection schemes)
21:32:54 <ihope> I'm not concerned with copy-protection, just modify-protection.
21:33:02 <_W_> the same principles applies
21:33:20 <_W_> the copy-protectors don't want the evil crackers to understand how their copy protection works so they can circumvent it
21:33:59 <ihope> I see.
21:34:06 <_W_> granted it's a bit easier to find that one call/longjmp and alter it
21:34:19 <_W_> which is possible in 99% of them
21:34:49 <_W_> but even that 1% gets cracked eventually
21:36:41 <ihope> Well, if we really wanted to make this computer, we could start with RSA...
21:36:42 <ihope> :-)
21:36:50 <_W_> how will that help?
21:37:09 <_W_> with RSA presumably the machine code would be decrypted SOMEWHERE
21:37:16 <ihope> Um...
21:37:18 <_W_> so just hook into that SOMEWHERE and read out the cleaned code
21:37:26 <ihope> I mean RSA would *be* the code.
21:37:31 <_W_> what
21:37:53 <ihope> I mean, you start with a number, and encrypt it repeatedly, and you'd be computing
21:38:01 <_W_> ...
21:38:05 <ihope> Well, I need to pop out for a while...
21:38:07 <_W_> not very useful computing tho
21:38:11 <_W_> wildly inefficient
21:38:45 <_W_> if you could even get something turing compatible
21:53:38 <poiuy_qwert> i have a dos program that i want to take a screenshot of, but any screenshot i take turns up black. anyone know how to fix that?
21:54:43 <lindi-> poiuy_qwert: what program are you using to take the screenshot?
21:55:06 <poiuy_qwert> ive tried Print Screen, SnagIt, and some other one...
21:55:29 <lindi-> poiuy_qwert: you mean you are not running the dos program on a dos system?
21:55:44 <poiuy_qwert> no on windows
21:56:02 <lindi-> blah, then you lose :)
21:56:10 <poiuy_qwert> really?
21:56:48 <_W_> I've not had any problem screenshotting dos screens on my ssytem
21:56:59 <_W_> using the buildt-in windows thing
21:57:32 <poiuy_qwert> :/
21:57:50 <_W_> what kind of program is it?
21:58:07 <poiuy_qwert> its a game
21:58:17 <_W_> does it change the screen mode?
21:58:27 <pgimeno> poiuy_qwert: do you run it in a window?
21:58:27 <poiuy_qwert> it goes fullscreen
21:58:29 <_W_> that'll probably snag windows
21:58:32 <_W_> yeah
21:58:41 <_W_> try to run it in a window
21:58:45 <_W_> alt+enter
21:58:45 <pgimeno> tried alt+enter to force window mode?
21:58:50 <pgimeno> heh
21:58:56 <poiuy_qwert> k
21:58:58 <poiuy_qwert> i'll try
21:59:29 <poiuy_qwert> it just minimizes it
21:59:52 <_W_> try to change the dos options for it
21:59:57 <pgimeno> is it very CPU hog?
22:00:09 <poiuy_qwert> its not a hog
22:00:12 <pgimeno> if not, you can try using DosBox
22:00:18 <poiuy_qwert> and i went to preferences and it said it was in window mode
22:00:42 <SimonRC> you can't run a graphical dos program in a window
22:00:56 <SimonRC> IME, at least
22:01:12 <lindi-> SimonRC: well, you can fix it to use SDL
22:01:31 <poiuy_qwert> :/
22:01:38 <SimonRC> lindi-: eh?
22:01:42 <pgimeno> with DosBox you can, http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/
22:01:48 <SimonRC> ok
22:01:53 <lindi-> SimonRC: hmm?
22:01:56 <lindi-> SimonRC: why not?
22:02:37 <SimonRC> ok, last time I tried to find a way to do it, I didn;t find one
22:02:41 <SimonRC> never mind
22:02:51 <lindi-> SimonRC: what program did you try to port?
22:03:09 <SimonRC> I wasn;t porting it, just running it
22:03:27 <lindi-> SimonRC: well that "fix" includes things people usually call "porting"
22:03:35 <SimonRC> who was talking about porting things?
22:03:45 <lindi-> i mentioned "fixing"
22:03:51 <SimonRC> ok
22:03:59 <SimonRC> I didn;t say I had sourcew
22:04:21 <lindi-> SimonRC: blah proprietary crap then :(
22:04:36 <lindi-> that'll limit your options indeed
22:04:57 <SimonRC> _The Incredible Machine_ is not crap.
22:05:04 <SimonRC> neither IMO is Rayman
22:05:30 <_W_> SimonRC, you tried Armadillo run?
22:05:46 <_W_> it's like a cross between BridgeBuilder and TIM
22:05:54 <_W_> (still "proprietary crap" tho)
22:06:17 <lindi-> SimonRC: it is when it comes to doing development for it, hard to fix anything without source :/
22:06:41 <_W_> unless you're good with fiddling with machine code/assembler/diassembled code
22:09:43 <_W_> Any of you happen to run netbeans?
22:20:08 -!- ChanServ has quit (ACK! SIGSEGV!).
22:21:42 -!- ChanServ has joined.
22:21:42 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
22:38:23 <SimonRC> _W_: I've used it
22:38:37 <_W_> I'm trying to get files to save in UTF-8
22:38:46 <_W_> java files save in it now, but nothing else
22:39:00 <SimonRC> use PFE!
22:39:37 <SimonRC> IIRC you can right-click on anything in the source tree in Netbeans and hit update to get it check for external changes
22:39:49 <_W_> PFE?
22:40:00 <SimonRC> !google PFE
22:40:10 <SimonRC> darn
22:40:25 <_W_> Pfizer, Inc. (stock symbol) Pacific Fruit Express Company Packet Filtering Engine
22:40:44 <SimonRC> nonono
22:40:47 <SimonRC> theeditor
22:40:50 <SimonRC> the editor
22:40:51 <_W_> yeah I found it
22:41:05 <_W_> I'm already coding java in netbeans tho, and enjoy all the refactoring and automation features
22:41:51 <_W_> would be a bit of a pain to keep two editors open when experimenting
22:42:37 <SimonRC> the trick is to use a language that doesn't need a special-editor to use sensibly
22:42:46 <SimonRC> *cough*Haskell*cough*
22:42:50 <SimonRC> or Joy
22:42:52 <SimonRC> Or J
22:42:55 <SimonRC> or K
22:43:00 <SimonRC> or Ruby
22:43:11 <SimonRC> or dozens of other langs
22:43:47 <_W_> I'm sure all of those could use some automation in their editing
22:44:14 <_W_> at the very least, they all benefit from search and possibly search/replace
22:44:54 <SimonRC> bah!  Get a real typesystem!
22:45:37 <SimonRC> If you need an editor that turns some simple input into a more complex thing in the source code, try making the more complicated thing the official for for the source code.
22:45:47 <_W_> that's not what I need tho
22:45:59 <_W_> autocomplete for instance, is a lifesaver
22:46:09 <SimonRC> what for?
22:46:11 <_W_> and no, not because the language is too verbose
22:46:15 <_W_> for class names for instance
22:46:39 <SimonRC> you're writing Java, right?
22:46:48 <_W_> yes...
22:47:06 <_W_> when you use libraries from 100 different people, it can be a bit of a pain to type out all the package and class names
22:47:15 <SimonRC> what are you writing, BTW?
22:47:31 <_W_> right now? just experimenting with my graph language
22:47:49 <_W_> I thought I'd be perverse enough to use unicode arrow up and arrow down as operators :p
22:48:00 <SimonRC> hmm, perl does it
22:48:11 <SimonRC> well, this is the *ideal* time to switch the project to a better language
22:48:36 <SimonRC> or rather, mor suited
22:48:44 <_W_> but java is by far the language I am most familiar with generate code in and with
22:48:51 <_W_> BCEL etc
22:49:05 <_W_> *generating
22:49:09 <SimonRC> a great time to learn a new language, then
22:49:18 <_W_> you know of something better?
22:49:29 <_W_> or are you suggesting I compile to c or something?
22:49:48 <SimonRC> waitamo, *how* are you using Java?
22:50:29 <_W_> I am using java to read source files of my special language, and using BCEL to write out a compiled class file from that source
22:50:58 <_W_> BCEL=ByteCode Engineering Library btw
22:51:02 <SimonRC> ah, so it is written in Java and compiles to the JVM?
22:51:07 <SimonRC> yeah, I googled it
22:51:27 <_W_> makes it *really* easy to write a compiler
22:51:37 <SimonRC> hmm
22:52:29 <SimonRC> Personally, I recognise this as fundamentally a problem of turning a datastructure into another datastructure, i.e. a pure function.
22:52:41 <SimonRC> Therefore I would attack it with Haskell.
22:53:40 <SimonRC> I might make it spit out horrible Java at the end which gets compiled without me everhaving to look at it.
22:53:54 <_W_> there are two objectives that needs to be met of course; one is to have something that is easy to compile TO, and the other, something that can easilly do the compiling to that thing
22:54:16 <SimonRC> (or I could butcher up the minijava->C compiler I have been given for my 3rd-year project)
22:54:38 <SimonRC> why do these langs have to be the same lang?
22:54:59 <_W_> they don't, it's just that the combination java->java has been the best I've experienced so far
22:55:08 <SimonRC> IIRC, there is a cross-compiler to the JVM for Haskell anyway
22:55:12 <_W_> even simpler than using bison/flex etc
22:55:32 <_W_> yes, but is it simpler to *output* haskell than jva bytecode?
22:55:34 <_W_> *java
22:55:37 <SimonRC> erm, they are parser-generators, not bytecode generators
22:55:47 <_W_> yes, I know, but same purpose
22:55:50 <SimonRC> _W_: quite possibly yess
22:55:59 <SimonRC> _W_: eh
22:56:09 <SimonRC> what does BCEL actually *do*?
22:56:14 <_W_> nothing
22:56:16 <_W_> it's just a model
22:56:42 <_W_> but with it, you don't have to consider syntax at all
22:56:51 <_W_> all is enforced by the model
22:57:13 <SimonRC> which part of the compiling do you use it for?
22:57:17 <_W_> just say "add an instruction to this method, that adds this and this variable"
22:57:22 <_W_> and it does that
22:57:26 <SimonRC> ah, ok
22:58:07 <SimonRC> I could write a Haskell library to do that, though it would take me ages to make it as good as I hope BCEL is.
22:58:16 <SimonRC> y'know typecheking, and the like
22:58:19 <_W_> indeed
22:58:47 <SimonRC> I assume anything you can persuade BCEL to output will compile correctly?
22:59:00 <_W_> BCEL *is* the compiler essentially
22:59:07 <_W_> valid bytecode is what it writes
22:59:20 <SimonRC> ok
22:59:22 <_W_> and yeah, I don't think you can get it to write bytecode that java rejects
22:59:35 <SimonRC> have you seen the JVM spec?
22:59:39 <_W_> yes
22:59:51 <SimonRC> very OOO, isn't it?
22:59:54 <SimonRC> :-)
23:00:12 <_W_> what do you mean?
23:00:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:00:24 <_W_> the actual spec documents? the VM?
23:00:45 <_W_> yes, the VM still has a concept of objects
23:01:24 <SimonRC> Object-Orientation-Oriented
23:01:31 <SimonRC> is what I meant
23:01:48 <_W_> heh yes
23:14:43 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:31:56 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: how do you hide your hostname?
23:32:14 <SimonRC> I have been fiddling with CVhanserv for 5 mins but I can't figure it out
23:32:22 <bsmntbombdood> /msg a staffer and ask them to give you a cloack
23:32:32 <SimonRC> hmf
23:32:47 * SimonRC wonders why nickserv can't do that
23:33:08 <SimonRC> it cloaks a fair amount fo stuff
23:45:58 -!- tokigun has quit ("¼­¹ö °ü°è»ó 12½Ã°£ µ¿¾È ¾Èµå·Î¸Þ´Ù °ü±¤ °¡¿À´Ï ±ä±ÞÇÑ ¿¬¶ôÀº ¼ÕÀüÈ­¸¦ ¾²°Å³ª ±ò²ûÇÏ°Ô Æ÷±âÇϽøé ÁÁ½À´Ï´Ù. ¤©¤©¤©;;;").
23:53:59 <_W_> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
23:56:40 <lindi-> SimonRC: would be nice if minijava supported input

2006-06-25:

00:14:21 * ihope sighs
00:21:57 <SimonRC> lindi-: heh
00:22:18 <SimonRC> lindi-: waitamo, maybe you are looking at the wrong minijava
00:23:20 <SimonRC> AFAIK, the only copies are on my account and my supervisor's account at Uni
00:39:45 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
01:21:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
01:21:57 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:52:21 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
01:54:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Success).
02:22:28 <_W_> Exception in thread "Thread-8580" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: unable to create new native thread
02:22:43 <_W_> hmm, perhaps having an unconditional fork instruction was a bit much
02:23:41 <_W_> every program has a buildt-in forkbomb, since every thread leaving a fork node has a chance of comming back to it at once
02:24:21 <ihope> Yipe.
02:24:59 <ihope> main = forkIO main >> forkIO main -- a Haskell forkbomb
02:25:10 <ihope> main = forkIO main >> main -- another Haskell forkbomb
02:28:23 <_W_> I guess I can leave it in, but any node connected to a fork have to have at least four other nodes connected to it, besides the fork node
02:28:53 <_W_> that way the expected number of threads from meeting a fork node is finite
02:31:44 <_W_> actually, that isn't sufficient either
02:31:56 <_W_> grr
03:17:20 -!- _coder_ has joined.
03:23:54 -!- ihope has quit ("Hey, everybody! Make this your default quit message!").
04:48:09 -!- ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:09 -!- lament has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:09 -!- _W_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- sekhmet has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- cmeme has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- _coder_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- sp3tt has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:10 -!- W_ork has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:11 -!- SimonRC has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:11 -!- CXI has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:11 -!- mtve has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:11 -!- fizzie has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:11 -!- pgimeno has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:12 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:48:13 -!- lindi- has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:53:21 -!- clog has joined.
04:53:21 -!- clog has joined.
04:53:23 -!- fizzie has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:53:46 -!- _W_ has joined.
04:53:50 -!- pgimeno has joined.
04:54:55 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
05:43:59 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Client Quit).
05:50:55 -!- CXI has joined.
06:04:09 -!- ChanServ has joined.
06:04:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
06:04:09 -!- cmeme has joined.
06:04:09 -!- sekhmet has joined.
06:04:09 -!- SimonRC has joined.
06:04:09 -!- sp3tt has joined.
06:04:09 -!- fizzie has joined.
06:04:46 -!- ChanServ has left (?).
06:04:46 -!- ChanServ has joined.
06:04:46 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
06:08:43 <_W_> a crack attack! *giggles*
06:09:02 <bsmntbombdood> whheee, crackers
06:10:31 <pgimeno> must be one of those http://funny.evilbunny.org/display/1986
06:12:41 <_W_> heh I like how they've plastered that evilbunny "watermark" on there without even removing the SA watermark
06:13:26 -!- calamari has joined.
06:13:47 <pgimeno> I believe the evilbunny "watermark" is generated in realtime
06:13:55 <calamari> hi
06:14:17 <pgimeno> hi calamari
06:15:16 <pgimeno> anyway that one looks like he could be tricked with this: http://funny.evilbunny.org/display/1808
06:16:03 <_W_> http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=1663 for more of the same of course
06:16:50 <_W_> pgimeno, yeah, oldie but goodie
06:18:44 <pgimeno> hahaha, love the slashdotting one
06:38:13 -!- lament has joined.
06:38:29 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:47:57 -!- clog has joined.
06:47:57 -!- clog_ has joined.
06:48:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
06:48:06 -!- pgimeno has joined.
06:48:34 -!- _W_ has joined.
07:04:53 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:52:15 -!- nooga has joined.
07:52:23 <nooga> hiho
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:16:51 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
09:54:53 -!- CXI has joined.
10:29:59 <lindi-> SimonRC: i'm talking about the one mentioned in Appel's book
10:46:36 -!- tgwizard has joined.
12:33:54 -!- tokigun has joined.
12:42:52 -!- nooga has quit.
12:58:35 -!- Arrogant has joined.
13:00:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:11:09 <SimonRC> lindi-: maybe my supervisor made an implementation opf that minijava, as he also recommended appel's book
14:32:22 -!- letapedis has joined.
14:32:33 <letapedis> hello world
14:33:03 <Arrogant> Finally, a working implementation of letapedis!
14:33:21 <letapedis> ! :)
14:33:42 * letapedis crashes
14:53:43 <Arrogant> I think there's something wrong with my parser
14:53:49 <Arrogant> It "found the end of the string while trying to SkipTo: StringEnd"
15:01:46 <SimonRC> You Should Have Used Parsec.  ;-)
15:02:16 <Arrogant> You SHUP :(
15:02:48 <Arrogant> My parser is perfectly fine. Except those frequent occasions where I find bugs and unexpected results.
15:16:02 -!- pgimeno_ has joined.
15:17:29 -!- pgimeno has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:17:34 -!- pgimeno_ has changed nick to pgimeno.
15:21:06 <SimonRC> Arrogant: heh
15:37:45 -!- buhah has joined.
15:38:07 -!- buhah has quit (Client Quit).
15:42:18 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
15:47:36 -!- letapedis has quit ("banalu").
15:57:39 -!- clog_ has quit (^C).
15:57:39 -!- clog has quit (ended).
15:58:44 -!- clog has joined.
15:58:44 -!- clog has joined.
16:29:32 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
16:44:02 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:07:51 -!- CXI has joined.
17:13:31 -!- ihope has joined.
17:29:12 <lindi-> SimonRC: yep, it's the same minijava probably then. we did a minijava->sparc assembler compiler
17:29:49 <ihope> Are we STILL talking about minijava?
17:32:02 <SimonRC> yes
18:03:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
19:02:02 -!- _coder_ has joined.
19:02:49 -!- _coder_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:19:59 <lindi-> ihope: i haven't seen any discussion about technical issues yet :)
19:20:15 <ihope> Technical issues... hmm?
22:12:57 -!- _coder_ has joined.
22:17:16 -!- _coder_ has changed nick to __coder__.
22:20:58 -!- __coder__ has changed nick to _coder_.
22:21:08 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
23:22:50 <SimonRC> our Uni's web server admin is worried:    http://www.dur.ac.uk/spa/student/assessment/passlistdates/    :-D
23:32:28 * ihope changes his password
23:32:36 <SimonRC> indeed
23:39:42 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
23:52:46 <bsmntbombdood> is your irc nick really that important?
23:53:32 <ihope> Oh, not really.
23:56:56 <bsmntbombdood> every one thinks its a big deal that passwords could have been stolen
23:57:14 <SimonRC> becuase they use the same password everywhere>
23:57:17 <SimonRC> ?
23:58:04 <bsmntbombdood> the password is sent plaintext anyway, so they shouldn't have used an important password
23:58:11 <SimonRC> indeed
23:59:01 * bsmntbombdood is going to write a secure irc-like protocol
23:59:42 <SimonRC> already been doen
23:59:54 <bsmntbombdood> mine will be better
23:59:54 <SimonRC> !google SILC

2006-06-26:

00:01:18 <bsmntbombdood> I would use public key crypto
00:02:49 <ihope> Just use public key crypto on top of IRC.
00:03:03 <bsmntbombdood> LAME
00:03:07 <ihope> :-P
00:03:55 <bsmntbombdood> and that wouldn't work well
00:04:25 <SimonRC> auth is a tough problem
00:04:32 <bsmntbombdood> you would have to encrypt separatly for each member of the chan
00:04:53 <SimonRC> you have to think about replay attacks and asking-the-server-its-own-question attacks and loads more
00:04:56 <ihope> Oh, so the server isn't trusted?
00:05:15 <bsmntbombdood> Im trying to think of a way to do it with an untrusted server
00:05:22 <ihope> Replay attacks could be eliminated by a bit of challenge-response.
00:05:24 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: that's silly
00:05:40 <bsmntbombdood> why
00:05:42 <SimonRC> you have no proof anyone else on IRC even exists
00:05:45 <SimonRC> :-)
00:06:34 <bsmntbombdood> an irc model wouldn't work
00:08:41 <bsmntbombdood> what's the point of encrypting if you let anyone in
00:09:11 <ihope> There are private channels, you know.
00:09:52 <bsmntbombdood> yes
00:38:01 * SimonRC goes.
00:46:12 * SimonRC goes to bed
00:58:59 -!- ChanServ has quit (ACK! SIGSEGV!).
00:59:39 -!- ChanServ has joined.
00:59:39 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
01:17:42 <lament> i HATE writing cover letters.
01:22:17 <ihope> Just write the letter P, then cover it with a coat of paint.
01:22:19 <ihope> Easy.
01:29:22 <_W_> lament, so don't lose your job, silly
01:29:37 <lament> meh
03:07:41 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
03:08:11 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has left (?).
03:24:04 -!- _coder_ has joined.
03:35:50 -!- ihope has quit ("*suddenly disappears*").
04:02:42 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
04:12:03 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:14:36 -!- calamari has joined.
04:15:40 <calamari> hi
04:16:14 <Arrogant> Hello, calamari!
04:16:32 <calamari> arr
04:49:28 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
05:08:06 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
05:54:11 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
06:07:49 -!- mtve has joined.
07:00:07 -!- Arrogant_ has joined.
07:14:23 -!- W_work has joined.
07:15:58 -!- Arrogant has quit (No route to host).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:55 -!- Arrogant_ has changed nick to Arrogant.
08:54:13 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
10:34:35 -!- tgwizard has joined.
12:01:46 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
12:21:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
12:55:08 <SimonRC> lament: I have to agree with you there
13:08:59 <Sgeo> Hm?
13:49:32 <SimonRC> "< lament> i HATE writing cover letters."
13:50:50 <SimonRC> Sgeo: If you were here 24,7,52+71/400 you'd have that in scrollback :-)
13:55:34 <SimonRC> hehe:  dig +short -x $(dig +short www.thepiratebay.org)
14:15:14 <Sgeo> hm?
14:21:46 <Sgeo> Should I post it?
14:23:40 <Sgeo> And how did you find that?
14:37:51 <W_work> it's just the reverse dns of the ip the host resolves to
17:09:03 -!- ihope has joined.
19:17:18 -!- ihope_ has joined.
19:34:03 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:26:38 <SimonRC> Sgeo: I saw it somewhere, I forget where
20:26:44 <SimonRC> another IRC channel maybe
20:27:01 * SimonRC has a great idea:
20:27:07 <SimonRC> the moving IRC channel
20:27:48 <SimonRC> if you wanted exclude people from a group, you issue each member of the group with the formula that turns the time into the channel name
20:28:00 <SimonRC> then, only those people can follow the channel as everyone moves
20:30:00 <ihope_> Ah, cool idea.
20:39:35 <fizzie> There's the +k channel mode, which could easily be time-varying and people wouldn't need to move all the time. Far more boring that way, I guess.
20:40:46 <ihope_> +k?
20:41:14 <ihope_> Eh, we're talking cryptographically secure here :-)
20:41:56 <fizzie> I don't see why the channel password would be any less secure than the channel _name_.
20:42:57 <fizzie> After all, it's basically a name suffix, since it's just another argument to the JOIN command.
20:43:47 <ihope_> Oh, right, +k is a password.
20:57:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:18:27 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:44:06 -!- poiuy_qwert` has joined.
23:50:21 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:58:01 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").

2006-06-27:

00:00:39 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
01:27:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:28:02 -!- calamari has joined.
01:34:58 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:56:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:03:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:10:19 -!- tokigun has joined.
02:27:39 <Sgeo> BRB all, trying the system w/o the evil ntfsprogs
02:32:23 <ihope> If there were a point thingy for killing the chat here, I'd have won the jackpot just now.
02:33:28 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
02:38:58 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:49:07 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
02:54:44 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:49:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
04:16:12 -!- poiuy_qwert` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:33:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:34:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
05:08:35 -!- Arrogant has joined.
05:27:06 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
05:39:59 -!- sedimin has joined.
05:40:02 <sedimin> hi there
05:44:09 <Arrogant> Hey.
05:45:07 <sedimin> how are things doing?
05:49:18 <Arrogant> Frustratingly.
05:49:19 <Arrogant> You?
05:49:56 <sedimin> Hm, quite fast, not as I would wish
05:50:26 <sedimin> gotta do loads of things at one time ;)
05:54:28 <Arrogant> ><
06:58:43 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:14:03 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:19:52 -!- CXI has quit (Success).
09:28:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
09:29:42 -!- CXI has joined.
09:57:44 -!- sedimin has joined.
10:31:23 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
11:09:17 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:56:22 <W_work> Is it easy to compile Bag into Thue, or vise versa?
12:09:33 -!- Sgeo has joined.
12:24:16 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
12:57:44 -!- tgwizard has joined.
13:27:47 <ihope> Ugh.
13:28:19 <ihope> I think it's not horribly hard to compile Fractran into Thue.
13:55:34 <W_work> I mean, they're very similar in operation, except that in Thue the order of the items matter
13:56:04 <ihope> Ah, right.
13:56:10 <W_work> which means you can't convert 666 into 232323 and have it mean the same as 222333
13:56:27 <W_work> but I've not tried, so I'm not sure if that is an obstacle or not
13:56:59 <ihope> Well, you could have some rules to scramble your primes around... then again, rules in Fractran have to work in a given order.
13:57:37 <W_work> hmm
13:57:43 <W_work> perhaps it's not so easy after all
13:58:24 <ihope> Oh, there are ways to do it.
13:58:36 <W_work> hmm yes
13:58:57 <ihope> Just have a field of stars, representing the current number.
13:59:25 <W_work> how do you check the division then?
13:59:30 <W_work> I'd imagine having a symbol per prime
13:59:41 <W_work> and just replace a set of primes with another
13:59:55 <ihope> You emit a bubble that runs through the field of stars, applying the first fraction. If it fails, go back, and undo what you've done. If it succeeds, go back, but don't undo.
14:00:06 <W_work> well that's fairly complex
14:00:13 <ihope> Not really.
14:00:23 <W_work> it's more complex than what I had imagined
14:00:44 <W_work> I mean, you're just transmuting primes, no need to care about what the product is
14:01:39 <ihope> Suppose you have ***** as your string, and you want to apply the fraction 3/5. Just stick a bubble on there to get "%*****", which turns into "***%", which turns into "***S", into "**S*", into "*S**", into "S***".
14:01:46 <W_work> the rule 15/14 for instance, says to convert 2 7 to 3 5
14:02:08 <ihope> Yes, but the 2 and the 7 might be anywhere in your string.
14:02:15 <W_work> yes I realize how you do it, but it'd be terribly slow, compared to just transmuting the primes directly; especially if you have a lot of primes
14:02:19 <W_work> indeed
14:02:31 <W_work> but is there no simple way to sort it?
14:02:33 <ihope> I guess it's still easy enough.
14:03:05 <ihope> Just have your bubble look for a 2, and for a 7, but not necessarily next to each other.
14:03:49 <W_work> I mean, if we're talking 2*3*5*7*9*11, and we're applying the program 64/15 9/2 81/3 21/11
14:03:59 <ihope> We could use {15/14} for the bubble, and [2] and [7] for the stuff it goes through.
14:04:00 <W_work> the field of stars would be humongous
14:04:06 <W_work> and you'd be backtracking a *lot*
14:05:05 <ihope> If it finds a [2], it deletes it and turns into {15/7}, and if it finds a 7, it deletes it and turns into {15/2}, and if either of those then finds the other, it'll delete it and turn into [3][5].
14:05:48 * W_work nods
14:05:52 <ihope> If it can't find an appropriate number in the whole string, it spits out the numbers it's eaten and goes back home, indicating failure in some way.
14:18:02 <SimonRC> good idea
14:28:01 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
15:43:12 <W_work> you can tell my job is interesting
15:43:22 * W_work heads home
15:43:46 <SimonRC> W_work: what is your job
15:43:48 <SimonRC> ?
15:44:15 <W_work> I'm an all-purpose programmer for a telco here in Norway
15:44:37 <W_work> but today has gone to debugging hardware
15:45:34 <W_work> my job IS actually quite interesting, I just wanted to pretend I have an excuse for my procrastination
15:45:46 * W_work really heads home
15:58:41 <SimonRC> heh
16:34:05 <ihope> Uh?
16:34:40 <ihope> Oh.
17:10:45 <_W_> and it turned out to be a software problem after all
18:01:17 -!- calamari has joined.
18:13:36 <SimonRC> Chav n. -- A minion of Asbodeus
18:13:38 <SimonRC> :-)
18:13:55 <SimonRC> a rather British joke
18:15:15 <calamari> hi
18:37:19 <SimonRC> hi
18:55:30 -!- CXI has joined.
18:57:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:17:33 -!- ihope_ has joined.
19:25:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
19:34:49 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:42:38 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:06:13 -!- sekhmet has joined.
20:07:11 -!- sedimin has joined.
20:29:14 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
20:33:26 -!- sedimin_ has joined.
20:40:43 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:35:14 -!- sedimin_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:54:20 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
22:31:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out).
22:45:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:50:04 -!- _coder_ has joined.
22:53:49 -!- _coder_ has quit (Client Quit).
23:13:19 -!- _coder_ has joined.
23:18:38 -!- tgwizard has quit ("goodnight").
23:20:02 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").

2006-06-28:

00:51:26 -!- _coder_ has joined.
01:54:40 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:58:29 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
02:06:06 -!- cmeme has joined.
02:13:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
02:13:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
02:46:08 -!- _coder_ has joined.
02:47:21 -!- _coder_ has quit (Connection reset by peer).
03:15:09 -!- _coder_ has joined.
04:16:47 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:17:09 -!- CXI has joined.
05:19:51 -!- Arrogant has joined.
06:22:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
06:38:53 -!- LoganCapaldo has joined.
06:47:46 -!- _coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:44:23 <W_work> hmm, anyone know how to negate a value in fractan?
08:45:25 <W_work> so that a*x turns to x and x turns to a*x for some prime a where x and a is mutually prime
08:51:43 <W_work> nvm I can design around it
09:01:05 -!- Keymaker has joined.
09:01:19 <Keymaker> hey
09:01:28 <bsmntbombdood> hi Keymaker
09:01:33 <Keymaker> hiya
09:03:48 <bsmntbombdood> oooh, Finland
09:03:51 <Keymaker> does anyone know what a windows binary file needs? does it need any header information or such, or can i just have whatever machine code there?
09:03:53 <Keymaker> yea
09:04:38 <lindi-> Keymaker: windows binary file?
09:04:50 <Keymaker> yeah, like exe or whatever it is :P
09:04:59 <Keymaker> i don't know what it's called
09:06:57 <lindi-> yes, those have a header in the begining
09:07:40 <Keymaker> hmm. what's the difference between .com and .exe?
09:08:18 <bsmntbombdood> http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/02/02/PE/
09:09:29 <Keymaker> i'm more interested about the old dos format
09:09:40 <Keymaker> (that'll be hopefully simpler :))
09:09:59 <bsmntbombdood> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXE
09:10:16 <Keymaker> haha, didn't thought of that X)
09:10:25 <Keymaker> *think
09:11:33 <bsmntbombdood> .com executables look like they are simpler than .exe (wikipedia)
09:11:54 <Keymaker> ah
09:12:05 <Arrogant> .com executables are not win32
09:12:11 <Keymaker> hmm, this's intersting -- i didn't know one could have a windows program that'd work both in dos and windows mode
09:12:19 <Arrogant> Much simpler though yeah
09:12:48 <bsmntbombdood> Arrogant: "The format is still executable on many modern Windows-based platforms"
09:13:27 <Arrogant> Through emulation afaik
09:13:38 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
09:16:33 <bsmntbombdood> Keymaker: what are you trying to do?
09:18:20 <Keymaker> i got an idea to make a program that'll first print almost all its code into another file, then add some new "random" code (such as printing something) to the new file, and then closing it by copying the rest from the original file
09:18:36 <W_work> there are libraries for generating PE executables I believe
09:18:58 <Keymaker> each time a new version of the program is run it produces a new one that does more random stuff than the one before did
09:19:19 <Keymaker> and i'll write this in assembly or with a hex editor
09:19:58 <Arrogant> Keymaker, just don't have a virus scanner running ;)
09:20:22 <Keymaker> what, could this affect to that? ;)
09:21:51 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
09:21:57 <W_work> it'll probably just pop up a warning "this program is trying to update it's executable, do you want to continue?" style
09:27:01 <Keymaker> i think i'll use a .com file
09:28:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
09:29:28 <W_work> com files are nice, easilly debuggable using debug
09:34:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
10:05:03 <W_work> Fractran is turing complete, but is it turing complete if a valid fractran program must end? I hate relying on getting the result from the first iteration of an infinite loop
10:13:49 <Keymaker> should this piece of c work?   while(i = getchar() != EOF){
10:14:05 <Keymaker> should that go until the input is eof?
10:14:11 <Keymaker> *go on
10:14:36 <Arrogant> while((i = getchar()) != EOF) {
10:14:37 <Arrogant> I think
10:14:43 <Keymaker> ok
10:14:48 <Arrogant> I'm not entirely sure,.
10:17:17 <Keymaker> yea, it seems not to work
10:18:17 <Keymaker> wait.. maybe i have to try compiling the modified source first..:P
10:18:41 <Arrogant> Probably a good idea :)
10:18:58 <Keymaker> works :)
11:46:23 -!- Arrogant_ has joined.
11:46:55 -!- Arrogant has quit (Nick collision from services.).
11:46:59 -!- Arrogant_ has changed nick to arrogant.
11:47:05 -!- arrogant has changed nick to Arrogant.
11:56:17 <Keymaker> i wrote my own tool for changing hex values into bytes (and ignore comments). this allows me to easily rearrange code, unlike a normal hex editor
11:56:45 <Keymaker> that is, i now write the machine code in a text file and then convert it to .com with this tool
12:00:40 <Keymaker> gotta go. bye
12:00:42 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
12:03:48 <W_work> debug can move code blocks
12:26:34 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
12:37:28 -!- tgwizard has joined.
12:38:27 -!- Arrogant has joined.
12:43:25 -!- coder_ has joined.
12:53:21 -!- sp3tt has quit (Client Quit).
13:29:22 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
13:44:18 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
13:58:20 -!- coder_ has joined.
14:01:37 -!- coder_ has quit (Client Quit).
14:14:57 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:04:12 -!- coder_ has joined.
15:50:46 -!- CXI has joined.
16:16:34 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
17:00:58 -!- sp3tt has joined.
17:16:34 -!- ChanServ has quit (Shutting Down).
17:19:03 -!- ChanServ has joined.
17:19:03 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
17:29:02 -!- calamari has joined.
17:29:12 <calamari> hi
18:06:13 -!- coder_ has joined.
18:19:50 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
19:07:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
19:29:13 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
19:34:26 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
19:46:36 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:00:00 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
20:01:45 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:44:53 -!- NoneGiven has joined.
20:45:15 -!- NoneGiven has changed nick to {^Raven^}.
21:26:18 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
21:42:01 <_W_> yes
21:42:06 <_W_> mt
21:44:53 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").
21:59:32 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:26:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out).
22:29:18 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:40:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
22:49:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:51:43 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:01:52 <SimonRC> No-one here is in England, are they?
23:11:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:22:57 <_W_> I know several englishmen, I even share a flat with one
23:29:20 <_W_> s/I/No, but I/

2006-06-29:

01:09:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:13:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
03:51:03 -!- coder_ has joined.
04:30:28 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:51:25 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
05:09:00 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:16:32 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
05:44:57 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
05:46:29 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:46:38 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
05:56:11 -!- CXI has joined.
05:57:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out).
06:32:51 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:09:55 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
09:10:21 -!- CXI has joined.
09:11:42 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
10:11:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:17:40 -!- sekhmet has joined.
11:16:27 -!- Keymaker has joined.
12:45:32 -!- tgwizard has joined.
14:29:34 -!- CXI has quit ("If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault.").
14:53:45 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
16:29:51 -!- ihope has joined.
16:29:59 <ihope> Oh, what was that...
16:30:10 <_W_> was what?
16:30:36 <ihope> Well, what's the shortest BF program that outputs "D"?
16:31:13 <ihope> The ASCII code is 68...
16:31:38 <ihope> That's 2*2*(1+2*2*2*2).
16:33:08 <ihope> It'd probably be more efficient to use 4*(1+4*4), so that'd be "++++[->++++<]>+[->++++<]>."
16:33:55 <ihope> Maybe it can get shorter, but this works.
16:38:07 -!- LoganCapaldo has left (?).
16:43:14 <_W_> can't it be brute forced?
16:45:53 <lindi-> _W_: only if you limit search to e.g. programs that halt after 10M steps
16:46:23 <_W_> of course
16:46:30 <_W_> but a program that outputs "D" is likely to...
16:47:48 <ihope> How long would it take to run a BF program for 10 million steps?
17:06:19 <_W_> lindi-, can't you just make a program to analyse it, and just skip over the programs that wouldn't halt in X steps? :p
17:06:50 <ihope> Just keep the loops from being weird.
17:07:02 <ihope> Or use BF-PDA. Everybody loves BF-PDA!
17:07:31 <ihope> And no, I'm still not talking about the British Fluid Power Distributors Association...
17:20:31 <lindi-> _W_: sure you can but then you might miss the program that halts in X+1 steps
17:20:54 <_W_> it was a joke...
17:21:26 <_W_> the most efficient way to analyse when an arbitrary brainfuck program halts seems to be to execute it
17:22:15 <ihope> So does this BF text generator thing have an extension thing, that tries to give you the shortest program beginning with some other program that outputs some string?
17:22:59 <ihope> Like the shortest beginning with "++++[->++++<]>+[->++++<]>" that outputs "o"?
17:30:56 <_W_> is a brainfuck "tape" infinite in both directions?
17:31:12 <_W_> ie can you start a program with <
17:31:55 <lament> _W_: there's no standard
17:32:05 <_W_> then you can
17:32:11 <ihope> Um..
17:32:16 <lament> _W_: usually it is assumed that the tape is infinite to the right, but not to the left
17:32:22 <ihope> With some interpreters you can, and with some you can't.
17:32:46 <lament> _W_: and that no, you can't
17:32:53 <lament> at least that's the safest bet
17:33:02 <ihope> In my mind, the tape was always infinite in both directions.
17:33:20 <lament> your mind is warped
17:39:04 <_W_> +>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>+++++. aw, beaten by 7 symbols
17:39:16 <_W_> and here I thought my idea was good
17:40:05 <pgimeno> ihope: seen http://www.iwriteiam.nl/Ha_bf_numb.html ?
17:40:56 <_W_> +>+[[[-<++++++++>]<<]>]>++. aw, beaten by *two* symbols
17:41:19 <_W_> I'm guessing your version is the shortest ihope
17:41:55 <_W_> no wait, that's wrong
17:43:09 <ihope> Can you do betteR?
17:43:46 <lament> it's very easy to check if it's the shortest or not
17:43:58 <lament> the problem of checking can be easily discounted as trivial.
17:45:08 <ihope> So how do you know that mine's not the shortest?
17:45:33 <ihope> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants? :-)
17:47:17 -!- CXI has joined.
17:47:38 <_W_> ihope, I meant my last program was wrong
17:47:45 <_W_> it calculates 11
17:47:48 <_W_> not 68
17:49:02 <ihope> Ah.
17:49:34 <_W_> and in fact, your program is shorter than the listed one
17:50:14 <_W_> 24 symbols, not counting the output
17:50:17 <_W_> vs 25
17:51:12 <ihope> Hmm?
17:51:45 <ihope> "++++[->++++<]>+[->++++<]>" has 25 symbols.
17:52:00 <_W_> I count 24
17:52:04 <_W_> oh wait
17:52:09 <_W_> missed that lone + in there
17:53:04 <pgimeno> oh, there seems to be an entry to be corrected there
17:53:14 <_W_> confirm that +>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]> yields 255?
17:53:39 <_W_> and is shorter than the 34 symbols listed as the shortest non-wrapping program for that
17:55:06 <ihope> What does "+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>" do?
17:55:50 <_W_> calculate ((((((1*2+1)*2+1)*2+1)*2+1)*2+1)*2+1)*2+1
17:56:30 <ihope> That would be 255.
17:56:46 <_W_> yes, assuming I didn't misstype or missthink somewhere, and that's not actually what it does
17:56:55 <_W_> I guess I should just download an interpreter
17:57:35 <ihope> Online Encyclopaedic Database of Integer ___ ___ Sequences
17:57:41 <ihope> Fill in the blanks :-P
18:00:44 <ihope> As is, that produces OEDI__S.
18:00:46 <pgimeno> what is the number after the number of instructions? is it the maximum nesting level or the like?
18:01:01 <ihope> I think it's the number of cells used.
18:01:21 <pgimeno> ah hm
18:02:21 <_W_> yeah program works
18:02:27 <_W_> guess I'll edit the wiki and add my program in
18:03:35 <pgimeno> I guess it is valid to generate the value in any cell, not just the first one, and to end up having nonzero cells, and to end up having the data pointer set to anything other than zero, right?
18:04:06 <ihope> ...
18:04:07 <pgimeno> having nonzero cells other than the generater number, that is
18:04:10 <ihope> Yeah, I guess so.
18:04:15 <pgimeno> s/generater/generated/
18:04:38 <ihope> Ns/\n//
18:04:41 <ihope> Or something like that.
18:05:36 <_W_> I'll have to go through the list and see what programs on the form ...(((x+1)*x+1)*x+1... are shorter than the listed ones
18:11:10 <pgimeno> hum, a requirement seems to be that the data pointer points to the cell
18:11:41 <ihope> You mean /(\+>)*\+\[\[\[-<\+\+>\]<<\]>\]>/? :-)
18:15:01 <_W_> pgimeno, yes, you should be able to just add a . to have it printed
18:15:54 <_W_> ihope, no, that'll just calculate the 2^x-1 ones
18:16:06 <ihope> ...Oh, yeah.
18:16:19 <_W_> the middle <++> can be <+++> for 3 for instance
18:17:37 <ihope> /(\+>)*\+\[\[\[-<\+*>\]<<\]>\]>/, then?
18:23:17 <_W_> 121 for instance, is (((3+1)*3+1)*3+1)*3+1
18:24:29 <pgimeno> I'd say \++ instead of \+*
18:24:53 <ihope> Oh, yeah...
18:25:20 <ihope> Well, what's wrong with "+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<>]<<]>]>"? :-P
18:25:40 <pgimeno> hehehe
18:26:53 <_W_> and 156 is ((5+1)*5+1)*5+1
18:27:36 * ihope decides to finally go back to that Wikibook
18:27:52 <_W_> and that's all that needed update
18:27:58 <_W_> 121, 156 and 255
18:28:05 <pgimeno> is there a generator of (e.g. randomly-chosen) expressions matched by a regexp?
18:28:24 <_W_> I'm sure someone have written one in prolog
18:28:43 <_W_> or if nothing else, a compiler from regexp to a prolog generator
18:29:13 <_W_> not sure it's easy to find on the web tho, seems very niche
18:29:28 <ihope> pgimeno: I've been wondering if there's one floating around.
18:30:29 * pgimeno apt-searches
18:30:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
18:32:22 <ihope> And the predicate says what Mr. Morton must do.
18:32:46 <ihope> Oh, hi, bsmntbombdood. We were just getting into a heated argument about Schoolhouse Rock...
18:33:12 <bsmntbombdood> I'm not familiar with the topic
18:34:27 <_W_> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants#115 must surely be possible to improve
18:35:01 <_W_> ((10+1)*10+1)+4
18:35:54 <_W_> no, that's 34 symbols
18:36:00 <_W_> gotta come up with something simpler tho
18:38:06 <pgimeno> what is the point with listing >++++++++++[>+++++++++++<-]> (28, 3) in 110?
18:38:22 <_W_> no idea
18:38:29 <_W_> same happens at the wrappable 255 as well
18:38:36 <_W_> - is listed, and so is >-
18:39:09 <pgimeno> I see
18:39:24 <ihope> And with lots of other things near 255.
18:40:37 <_W_> the talk page discusses them
18:49:47 <_W_> I assume negative values are never allowed?
18:49:59 <_W_> if one has non-wrapping cells I mean
18:50:05 <_W_> s/if/even if
18:51:07 <pgimeno> that might be a controversial point but I'd say no
18:52:18 <pgimeno> one of my readers sent this for 111: +++++++[>++++<-]->[<++++>-]
18:55:04 <pgimeno> I accepted it as a solution but I can imagine it failing for some interpreters with non-wrapping check
18:58:34 <pgimeno> (for context see <http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/compurec/Minesweeper.php#Solutions>)
19:05:43 <_W_> what's the shortest program that multiplies a number by itself? ie that does x^2
19:09:07 <_W_> [[[->+>+<<]>>-]<]>[-->+<][[->+<]>] is my first attempt
19:10:56 <_W_> it'll be wrong half the time actually, only working on even numbers
19:12:23 <_W_> actually, it won't work at all :(
19:18:55 -!- ihope_ has joined.
19:35:28 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:36:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:37:46 <_W_> [[->+>+<<]>>-]<<<[>>[-<++>]<<<<]>>[->+<]>>[<<[->>+<<]>>>>]<<. fixed!
19:39:23 <ihope_> Uh oh.
19:40:46 <ihope_> Well, to multiply A by B, you loop through moving B to C and D, then moving C to B...
19:41:05 <_W_> sure, that's /one/ way
19:41:29 <_W_> but when you program in BF, isn't the point to think outside the box?
19:41:38 <ihope_> No? :-P
19:41:46 <_W_> :/
19:42:04 <_W_> can you see how my program does it?
19:42:13 <ihope_> Just a minute...
19:43:46 <_W_> nevermind, it doesn't pass my unit test :(
19:43:56 <_W_> I've got a > or < too much somewhere
19:44:58 <ihope_> [-<+<+>>]<[[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]<]>>[-<+>]<
19:45:13 <ihope_> Try that.
19:45:55 <_W_> infinite loop
19:46:15 <ihope_> Where?
19:46:24 <_W_> dunno, tried running it
19:46:42 <_W_> on 10 (so it should output an ascii 'd')
19:46:58 <ihope_> It didn't run off the left side of the tape, did it?
19:47:17 <_W_> I started with >>>>++++++++++
19:47:22 <_W_> how much left spac edo you need?
19:47:33 <ihope_> That should be enough.
19:47:47 <_W_> yeah that's what I gathered
19:47:49 <ihope_> It needs 2 to the left and 1 to the right.
19:48:10 <ihope_> Well, we could run through it manually...
19:48:29 <_W_> let me try with 1 first; if that hangs that's easier to trace
19:49:02 <_W_> yepp
19:49:30 -!- tgwizard has quit (Connection timed out).
19:50:48 <lament> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
19:51:41 <_W_> 0,0,1*->1,1,0*->1,1*->1,0*,1,1->1,0,1*,1->1,1,0*,1->1,1*,0,1->2,0*,0,1->2*,0,0,1->run out of tape to the left, or continue moving the 2 to the left infinitely
19:52:36 <_W_> probably the later, in my implementation
19:56:24 <_W_> [->+>+<<]>[>[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]<<-]>>>
19:56:34 <_W_> that only moves to the right
19:56:44 <_W_> uses same space
19:58:20 <_W_> yeah passes test
19:59:44 -!- ihope has joined.
20:00:10 <ihope> How nice. My computer freezes up in the middle of a conversation, and it's still frozen when it's time to pack up and all that.
20:00:23 <ihope> We're going on a road trip...
20:00:45 <_W_> well, have fun
20:01:52 <ihope> Did you say that "[-<+<+>>]<[[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]<]>>[-<+>]<" went to the left forever?
20:02:16 <_W_> I think so
20:02:47 <_W_> naive trace of 1 as input at least
20:02:51 <ihope> How's that possible? Each of the inner loops has the same number of "<" as ">", so it should be balanced.
20:02:55 <_W_> that might be an edge case tho
20:02:57 <ihope> s/ inner / /
20:03:02 <_W_> oh right
20:03:10 <_W_> probably did something wrong somewhere then
20:03:29 <ihope> Well, it's time for me to disappear. Bye.
20:11:51 <_W_> it was one > too little
20:12:16 <_W_> [[->+>+<<]>>-]<<<[>>[-<++>]<<<<]>>[->+<]>>>[<<[->>+<<]>>>>]<< multiplies X with itself, using lots and lots of cells.
20:14:00 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:24:38 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:26:49 -!- calamari has joined.
23:34:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.

2006-06-30:

01:49:25 -!- ihope has joined.
01:51:57 <ihope> So... that road trip.
01:52:04 <ihope> I'm at the hotel and everything.
01:58:58 -!- coder_ has joined.
02:15:39 <{^Raven^}> SimonRC: I'm in England
02:30:56 -!- ihope_ has joined.
02:35:31 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
02:50:49 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:15:16 -!- CXII has joined.
03:17:14 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:17:14 -!- CXI has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:17:14 -!- pgimeno has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:17:14 -!- lament has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:18:19 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:18:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
03:18:19 -!- CXI has joined.
03:18:19 -!- pgimeno has joined.
03:18:19 -!- lament has joined.
03:19:56 -!- CXI has quit (Connection reset by peer).
04:38:27 -!- coder_ has joined.
04:46:47 -!- ChanServ has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- sekhmet has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- sp3tt has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- tokigun has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- mtve has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- _W_ has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- SimonRC has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- lament has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- pgimeno has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- fizzie has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- lindi- has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- CXII has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- {^Raven^} has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- coder_ has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- calamari has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:47 -!- W_work has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:46:48 -!- ChanServ has joined.
04:46:48 -!- coder_ has joined.
04:46:48 -!- lament has joined.
04:46:48 -!- pgimeno has joined.
04:46:48 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
04:46:48 -!- CXII has joined.
04:46:48 -!- calamari has joined.
04:46:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
04:46:48 -!- sekhmet has joined.
04:46:48 -!- {^Raven^} has joined.
04:46:48 -!- sp3tt has joined.
04:46:48 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
04:46:48 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:46:48 -!- W_work has joined.
04:46:48 -!- mtve has joined.
04:46:48 -!- _W_ has joined.
04:46:48 -!- lindi- has joined.
04:46:48 -!- SimonRC has joined.
04:46:48 -!- fizzie has joined.
04:46:48 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ.
05:24:55 <lament> http://gallery.z3.ca/d/11026-1/wuve.jpg
05:33:00 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
05:33:14 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has left (?).
06:36:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("all your basment are belong to bsmntbombdood").
07:06:13 -!- Arrogant_ has joined.
07:06:17 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving").
07:08:15 -!- Arrogant_ has changed nick to Arrogant.
07:50:12 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:59 -!- CXII has quit ("If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault.").
08:16:35 -!- CXI has joined.
08:48:42 -!- jix_ has joined.
10:31:58 <W_work> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matiyasevich%27s_theorem interesting reading
11:33:25 -!- jix_ has changed nick to jix.
12:34:04 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
12:46:44 -!- ihope_ has joined.
12:46:46 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
12:57:18 -!- Arrogant has joined.
14:23:36 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
14:47:11 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:06:27 -!- tgwizard has joined.
17:22:52 -!- sekhmet has quit ("leaving").
17:35:23 -!- sekhmet has joined.
18:22:26 <_W_> the math is a bit above my head, but I'm sure there's an esolang in there somewhere
20:30:59 -!- coder_ has joined.
20:31:20 -!- coder_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:06:37 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:54:31 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving").