00:00:14 i'm not _quite_ sure you understand yourself what you're talking about 00:00:36 lament: Like I said, I'm making it up as I go right now. :p 00:00:45 i see. 00:00:54 You're just getting my thoughts on the subject right now. 00:01:09 that sucks. 00:01:15 How so? 00:01:39 i don't want your thoughts, i want a spec :) 00:01:56 Argh. I'm not entirely sure that's truly multidimensional code. 00:02:16 It's merely code that has a lot of ways to fork. 00:02:37 Still seems good in my head, but. . . 00:02:48 It's more of a "Brainfuck with functions" as it is, right now. 00:04:11 for the love of god, can people stop creating more brainfuck variants? 00:04:14 there's 9832478907345 already 00:04:23 lament: Sorry. Thought this was interesting. 00:04:41 It's not too late to abort it, though. :p 00:09:17 * pikhq has a (rather small) spec. . . 00:10:01 http://pastebin.ca/115926 00:12:47 * Sgeo goes AFK 00:14:00 It's all my fault, isn't it? 00:14:58 yes. 00:15:09 holy shit the topic is long. 00:15:14 * lament just noticed 00:15:37 Heh. 00:15:54 Thoughts? Comments? Accusations of stupidity? 00:18:10 you're stupid. 00:18:46 I was beginning to think that myself. 00:18:56 It seems my brain and I have gone our seperate ways. 00:24:29 Could you just forget everything I've aid in the past. . . $large_amount_of_time? 00:25:18 no 00:25:39 Could you at least be willing to try and forgive me? 00:31:15 (I assume that'd be pending upon me doing something smart) 00:34:35 Now, I've got a psuedo-smart specification on my hard drive. 00:34:44 And no, I'm not posting it yet. 00:35:05 I want to re-examine it some time when I'm not in the middle of a stupidity streak. 00:59:34 I think programming in this is going to be a bitch. 01:00:25 (Unlike BF, in which programming is like a cool summer breeze) 01:08:47 Well, ][ is useless, except in making comments. 01:08:47 Just like <>, ><, +-, and -+. 01:09:03 I disagree. 01:09:49 I can find uses for all of the pairs of commands in the second line. 01:10:44 Many BF interpreters stop when D=0 and executing <, so <> can be thought of as "Stop if D=0; otherwise continue normally." 01:11:28 What about the others? 01:11:32 >< can be a check to stop if no more memory is available. 01:12:09 In the case of nonwrapping-constrained interpreters, -+ can serve as a check for if an attempt to decrement zero is done. 01:12:41 And, of course, +- can be used for overflow detection in the same interpreter scenario. 01:13:15 I can't find a use for ][, though, except writing comments which is useful per se. 01:13:39 Or even commenting out code. 01:15:11 Well, they're all useless in BF interpreters which provide infinite tapes in both directions and allow arbitrary integers of either sign... 01:15:47 which are not very numerous and are highly nonstandard 01:15:49 .P 01:15:51 :P 01:16:28 (nonstandard for the infinite tape part) 01:17:36 But that will not stop you if you were planning a BF-tidy program :) 01:17:59 or BF-lint 01:20:09 I have also imagined another BF variant in which ][ could be useful 01:21:24 so the number of BF variations is now 9832478907346 including mine 01:22:10 in this variant the code starts at data position -1 and goes backwards 01:22:42 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000]"). 01:23:27 the commands are in ASCII so it permits self-modification 01:24:07 but in order to manipulate instructions it may be necessary to have "dead code" in the middle of the program 01:25:00 this would allow a BFOS, since in this way loaders could be written 01:26:00 But it wouldn't allow optimization of code and all that. 01:26:16 yeah, you have to live with that 01:26:55 but some programs with unbalanced [] could even be valid 01:27:51 e.g. a program with an extra ] could be valid if the data area (which is also executable) has been written with a matching [ 01:28:45 or if self-modified to match 01:29:10 it opens a whole new world of BF power :) 01:29:33 Here's an idea: an optimizing BF compiler that turns its input into some fancy type thing, then churns out something of that type, which is the compiled program. 01:29:58 It'd be hard to guarantee that each type only goes with one program, though, eh? 01:30:56 I don't get the fancy type thing part 01:31:21 something like a VM BF? 01:36:28 pgimeno: don't forget that +-, -+, <>, and >< could be useful in a self-modifying BF program as spacers, even moreso ][, which in the case of [......][.....] could be "opened up" to [............] as a simple way of extending a main loop. 01:37:28 yeah, interesting usage case too :) 01:37:47 :D 01:39:28 off to bed, bye 01:39:38 cya 01:45:30 The compiler would just turn its input into some complex specification of just what the program does, then turn it into some other type of code. 01:49:36 I always thought a good tool would be a powerful preprocessor for BF that would support things like macros, variable names, etc, (vaguely like BFBASIC, perhaps), that would render out raw BF, and then a matching BF compiler that would transform the raw BF into efficient assembly. 01:50:32 they kinda exist as seperate utilities, but if you combined the two it would be like a regular high-level language. 01:51:13 brings to mind the old "gluing parts onto a skateboard to make a luxury car" adage. 02:05:34 -!- Arrogant has joined. 02:06:18 * pikhq just might have his infinite dimensional Brainfuck variant specified by now. . . 02:07:47 show us what you've got. 02:08:20 I think ihope can attest that, right now, you *don't* want to see it. 02:08:53 lol 02:09:00 fair enough 02:09:17 Give me a couple more days to make sure I'm not just on crack by mistake. :p 02:56:45 this image speaks to me: http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/08-04-06-difficulty/occamsmonkey.jpg 03:01:34 Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiet Cherry Vanilla Orange Grape Lemon Lime Mint Roast Chicken Mayonnaise and Colaaaaaaaaaaaa Dr Pepper! 03:02:34 is this a bizzare chef variant? 03:03:20 HAHAHAHAHA 03:03:23 No, but it needs to be 03:03:54 hm... I see possibilities... 03:04:25 we should design a language around your previous sentence so that it will *become* a hello world. 03:10:35 hm. "Hello, World" = 12 characters. there are 12 a's in "Colaaaaaaaaaaaa", so that can be output. 03:10:58 "Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiet" can allocate a stack or something... 03:11:25 and then we need to get "Cherry Vanilla Orange Grape Lemon Lime Mint Roast Chicken Mayonnaise" to push data into a stack... or something... 03:11:38 and "Dr Pepper" can be an end statement. 03:27:36 Evil. 03:28:04 well, that's kinda the idea... 03:49:44 http://nickv111.is-a-geek.com:8080/~pikhq/dimensifuck 03:50:44 I'm gettin' a 404... 03:50:56 Try again. 03:51:51 ah, much better. 03:53:51 wait- isn't this ultimately just a *big* three dimensional space? 03:54:05 Hmm? 03:54:31 each "dimension" is a 2d codespace. 03:54:43 there are many of these spaces, so it's 3d. 03:54:52 Argh. 03:54:59 unless I misunderstand the spec... 03:55:02 That's a bug in how I'm specifying the dimensions. 03:55:08 hm. 03:55:13 I need a good damned way of doing it. 03:55:33 use dimensions like a tree structure. 03:55:47 imagine a cubical arrangement of cells. 03:56:01 now imagine a line of these cubes- that's time. 03:56:04 (4d) 03:56:23 now imagine a whole series of these lines. that's 5d 03:56:30 Ah. 03:56:34 That makes sense. 03:56:50 good. I'm glad I could describe it. 03:56:51 Then a set of those series is 6d. . . And so on. 03:57:05 just imagine panning back infinitely. 03:57:23 now, to actually store this as a data structure, you'll need a treelike system. 03:57:53 problem is, you'd have to define it bottom-up, which makes things difficult. 03:57:53 I'd prefer a way of representing it in simple ASCII. 04:00:07 Hmm. 04:01:01 I don't think there's a simple way to represent xD code that is at the same time clear. 04:01:18 you could just store *data* in an xD space... 04:03:14 Maybe express it as follows: 2D piece 1, 3D piece 4, 4D piece 3. . . etc.? 04:03:20 heh. idea- add a command that sets you to a random "dimensional index"... 04:03:59 I would define dimensions like ip addresses- x.y.z.a?.b?... 04:04:16 Hmm. That's a good idea. 04:04:22 Easier to parse. 04:05:55 http://www.codu.org/dcvogllmrcmcdp.ogg 04:06:13 if you want to define your code that way, you can preface each command with an address like that- sorta like BASIC line-numbers. 04:07:48 That could work. 04:08:08 What'd be nice is a program to allow easy editing of code like this. ;) 04:08:32 GregorR: it's all clear now! 04:08:44 What is? 04:09:09 I've got a new spec up. 04:09:19 * RodgerTheGreat perceives the meaning of gregor's enigmatic food-related statement! 04:09:20 Try it, and see if that's a less sucky version. 04:09:34 Sorry. Need to copy to public_html. 04:09:48 Incidentally, that first section is my voice unedited. Yeah, my voice sucks. 04:10:58 I've heard much, much worse. 04:11:01 There. 04:11:25 Or not. 04:11:44 I made edits, and they disappeared. 04:12:01 Crap, I screwed it up .... I didn't say "lemon lime" in the "small print" 04:12:27 fuxxor. 04:16:13 Now? 04:16:48 The spec could use refining, I know, but I believe now it should at least be actually infinite-dimensional in nature. . . 04:18:15 If it actually is correct, then I dare someone to write an interpreter or compiler for it. :p 04:19:24 * RodgerTheGreat demands a credit line for fundamental underlying concepts of dimensifuck. 04:20:06 * pikhq demands the same 04:21:15 Just getting your head around it is a challenge. Specifying a language in it is making me near-insane. 04:21:45 And the fact that I'm not even sure if any of it makes any sense at all isn't helping. 04:22:26 just be sure to include my name somewhere in the Esolang article when you create it. 04:22:50 I intend to. 04:23:12 Along with Nick, for a) giving me the idea and b) trying to convert my scratchings into a proper LaTeX spec. 04:23:41 w00t. 04:23:57 LaTeX ftw! 04:24:20 I'd do it, but I'm not entirely capable of figuring out what I mean at the moment, so. . . 04:26:21 at one point, I knew some LaTeX... 04:26:58 mostly just math markup, though. 04:28:15 There, that should be a bit more clear. 04:28:56 Sorry. Need to fix it. 04:29:11 My explanation of the example code, mostly. 04:29:59 *There*. 04:31:13 * pikhq waits for the inevitable accusations of stupidity/insanity 04:34:24 * pikhq just realised one thing that it needs 04:34:35 You think maybe I could use a way to end the program? 04:34:45 hm. 04:34:55 programs that end are easier to write interpreters for. 04:35:09 "X", perhaps? 04:35:15 Yeah. 04:35:26 or "E", to avoid clashing with braintwist. 04:36:16 It already clashes with Braintwist. :p 04:37:17 Well, at least I know my language is Turing complete, via a trivial isomorphism with Brainfuck. ;p 04:38:20 Just do: 1.1 *brainfuck code here*X 04:38:22 Voila. 04:38:35 bingo 04:39:20 Any Brainfuck coder can write for Dimensibrain. Just not every Brainfuck coder can use the dimensional features. ;) 04:39:39 Argh. s/ibrain/ifuck/ 04:39:48 * pikhq needs to get the name right, at least. 04:39:51 Argh. s/ibrain/ifuck/ 04:39:55 Your know quote for life. 04:40:04 Yeah. 04:40:06 brillaint 04:40:36 ^ notice the clever combination of "Brillaint" and "ain't" (which is not a word) 04:40:49 Now. . . Do you think that it's now actually validly multi-dimensional, and *gasp* makes sense? 04:40:54 ^ notice the un-clever failure to spell. 04:41:10 pikhq: to a reasonable degree. 04:41:46 * pikhq notices an issue. . . 04:42:05 * RodgerTheGreat prepares to resolve an issue. 04:43:05 Care to inform? 04:43:46 you have to *tell* me the issue before I can solve it, unless you want me to make shit up. 04:44:12 It's just that ^ and v ended up doing the opposite of what they'd appear to do. 04:44:27 Err. . . 04:44:33 That's just an issue with my example code. 04:44:36 Hang on. 04:44:42 okie-dokie, 04:44:45 * pikhq needs to stop coding when he's this irrational. 04:44:49 sounds acceptable. 04:48:08 *There*, the example code should now actually fit the language. 04:48:56 an excellent way to start a spec. 04:49:03 Indeed. 04:49:27 It's actually a language that makes some sense now, I believe. 04:49:37 And it only took me a few hours to get there. :p 04:50:26 d'you know that gasoline smell? Smells like... victory! 04:50:41 * RodgerTheGreat loves the smell of esolang napalm in the morning. 04:50:51 * pikhq runs s/three/five/ on his spec 04:50:54 or at 11:50 at night, as the case may be. 04:53:27 I believe this can be called "masochism at work" now. 04:53:40 * pikhq dares anyone to implement it 04:56:08 what would such a madman win? 04:58:00 a small portion of your immortal soul? 04:58:15 $2.67? 04:58:32 the respect and admiration of your peers? 04:59:16 Proof of madness. 04:59:33 hm. like a certificate? 04:59:40 Yes. 05:01:28 A certificate which is written in Dimensifuck. 05:03:57 "In a moment, pikhq is going to step into another dimension. A dimension not only of sight and sound, but of the mind. There's a signpost up ahead- he has entered... The Dimensifuck Zone..." 05:04:05 LMAO 05:06:02 I'm glad I stumbled across this channel a few days ago- I feel so at home. :) 05:06:24 :) 05:07:54 I've been learning about esolangs as a hobby for years now- little did I know there was a community of madmen (and madwomen) just like me RIGHT BELOW MY NOSE 05:08:28 :) 05:09:10 * RodgerTheGreat dances joyfully 05:12:48 1.1 ^.,v 05:17:13 Just be glad I'm not overloading the operators. :p 05:17:30 oh, sweet jesus 05:19:17 hm. does anyone know anything about raytracing? 05:20:37 I've been thinking about the feasibility of implementing a raytracer in BFVGA, but I know nothing about raytracing other than that it's slow and looks cool. 05:28:31 -!- BigZaphod has joined. 05:44:47 hey, BigZ. 05:45:07 didn't know you were into esoteric programming. 05:46:03 Redid the spec. 05:46:25 A friend convinced me that ^ and v should be conditional, so we can get rid of [ and ]. 05:47:21 And Nick got a nice LaTeX version. 05:47:50 hm. the plot thickens. 05:48:25 http://nickv111.is-a-geek.com/~pikhq/dimensifuck.tex 05:49:08 RodgerTheGreat: hey! I remember you. :-) 05:49:17 I made Whirl, Cow, Taxi, and 3code. ;-) 05:49:47 really? wow! 05:49:53 I've been working on Dimensifuck with a few people. 05:50:11 been quite awhile since I've been in that world, though. :-) 05:50:25 anyway, I'm just popping off to play a game with the wife for a spell. be back later. ;-) 05:50:32 cya 05:51:10 http://nickv111.is-a-geek.com:8080/~pikhq/dimensifuck.tex 05:51:19 Sorry. 05:52:04 very nicely formatted. 05:52:18 I notice you adapted my explanation. 05:52:33 Actually, that happened by chance. 05:52:38 He didn't hear any of that. 05:52:46 * pikhq didn't right that; my friend Nick did 05:52:59 ah 05:53:00 s/right/write 05:53:06 one thing- I 05:53:15 Argh. This has been a very bad day for me. Can't seem to think at all. 05:53:20 I'm pretty sure it's "Epsilon", not "Upsilon" 05:53:29 unless he was being punny. 05:53:51 Him? Probably being punny. 05:53:57 * GregorR reappears. 05:54:33 howdy, GregorR. 05:54:40 He's serious, and begs to differ with you. 05:55:09 Dot dot dot. 05:55:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsilon 05:55:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon 05:55:31 We're both right, it would appear. :/ 05:55:54 -!- nickv111 has joined. 05:55:59 I am Alpha and Omega. And that guy is Epsilon. 05:55:59 hi 05:56:10 Hi 05:56:24 Um, pikhq tells me you guys don't think Upsilon is a Greek letter, or something of the like 05:56:25 I assume that you, nickv111, are the guy assisting pikhq with his esolang. 05:56:28 nickv111: RodgerTheGreat just found out you're both right. 05:56:39 [12:54am] RodgerTheGreat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsilon 05:56:39 [12:54am] RodgerTheGreat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon 05:56:39 [12:55am] RodgerTheGreat: We're both right, it would appear. :/ 05:56:48 indeed 05:57:04 Right, I said specifically to pikhq, "If you look up greek letters, Upsilon is definitely a greek letter 05:57:07 10:55 05:57:10 So is Epsilon 05:57:12 10:55 05:57:14 Both of them are definitely greek letters" 05:57:17 So, I said both of them were definitely greek letters. 05:57:21 ah- he didn't convey that to me in it's entirety. 05:57:48 Yeah, I never said that Epsilon isn't a greek letter. I said that Epsilon and Upsilon are two completely separate letters 05:57:53 Just wanted to clear that up ;) 05:57:55 I didn't see that when I said "He's serious, and begs to differ with you.". 05:58:23 10:54. 05:58:27 it's all cool. 05:58:33 Heh 05:58:56 nickv111: So, would you agree with me that anyone who implements this is quite probably insane? 05:59:01 interestingly, it appears nick and I came up with similar explanations for multiple dimensions independently. 06:00:39 " 06:00:40 [10:55pm] RodgerTheGreat: use dimensions like a tree structure. 06:00:40 [10:55pm] RodgerTheGreat: imagine a cubical arrangement of cells. 06:00:41 [10:55pm] RodgerTheGreat: now imagine a line of these cubes- that's time. 06:00:41 [10:55pm] RodgerTheGreat: (4d) 06:00:43 [10:56pm] RodgerTheGreat: now imagine a whole series of these lines. that's 5d 06:00:45 [10:56pm] pikhq: Ah. 06:00:48 [10:56pm] pikhq: That makes sense. 06:00:51 [10:56pm] RodgerTheGreat: good. I'm glad I could describe it. 06:00:53 [10:56pm] pikhq: Then a set of those series is 6d. . . And so on. 06:00:56 [10:56pm] RodgerTheGreat: just imagine panning back infinitely. 06:00:58 [10:57pm] RodgerTheGreat: now, to actually store this as a data structure, you'll need a treelike system. 06:05:34 well, I'm going to get some sleep. Good night, everyone. 06:05:52 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:44:53 -!- nickv111 has quit ("Lost terminal"). 07:22:14 co'o 07:23:20 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:27:21 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 07:32:46 -!- _jol_ has joined. 07:39:03 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 07:39:19 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has left (?). 07:58:35 -!- Arrogant has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:24:17 -!- _jol_ has quit ("leaving"). 08:31:17 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:31:45 -!- CXI has joined. 09:25:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood_. 09:26:12 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 09:29:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood__. 09:30:07 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 09:49:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("sleeping"). 12:35:32 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 15:02:02 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:02:15 good morning. 15:15:09 Ello. 15:17:18 hi, ihope_. 15:22:32 -!- _jol_ has joined. 15:46:06 bbl 16:11:09 Morning. 16:13:15 -!- _jol_ has quit ("leaving"). 16:17:04 -!- smokecfh has joined. 16:39:52 -!- _jol_ has joined. 17:03:13 -!- _jol_ has quit ("leaving"). 17:08:19 back 17:09:14 -!- smokecfh has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:12:18 * pikhq wonders if someone's going to be crazy enough to implement Dimensifuck 17:13:18 I dunno... I might try it in Java at some point, but my OOP-fu is weak 17:14:00 One condition: try and make it work with GCJ, please. 17:14:11 * pikhq doesn't like having non-free software around. . . 17:14:20 creating the data structure necessary for storing code is gonna be a bitch. 17:14:43 * RodgerTheGreat doesn't care, because JVM is bundled with his OS. 17:15:06 Well, it should just end up being a simple CLI app, so it should work with GCJ. . . 17:15:15 most likely. 17:15:32 * pikhq also likes the ability to compile the Java bytecode to a native binary. ;) 17:15:39 I have access to a shell on a machine with GCJ so I ought to be able to test it out. 17:15:45 K. 17:16:31 Java is really pretty fast, dude- a properly coded app can achieve 60-70% the speed of C, and it's actually portable. Take a look at JAKE, for example. 17:17:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah. . . 17:17:51 * pikhq codes in Tcl, not C, anyways. ;) 17:18:47 C has it's place (coding drivers, for example), but I think it's inconvenient for most of my purposes. 17:19:09 I've done most of my recent coding work in PHP, actually. 17:19:19 hm... 17:19:34 Y'know, I might try making an online interpreter. 17:19:50 I think *Java* is inconvenient for most purposes. 17:20:41 Combines the ease of use of C++ with the speed of running your code in an emulator. 17:20:51 textedit -> javac -> java. No screwing around with preprocessors, makefiles or compiler flags. 17:21:39 Then I'll run gcj on the Java bytecode when I get it, so I have a native binary. 17:22:48 Mostly for simplicity of execution; using gij to execute it takes a little bit more typing. 17:54:46 bbl 18:06:57 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:07:24 -!- CXI has joined. 18:20:17 back 18:20:23 hello, CXI 18:54:21 -!- RodgerTheGreat has changed nick to RodgerTheAfk. 19:01:52 -!- smokecfh has joined. 19:25:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:40:43 -!- _jol_ has joined. 19:54:39 Ugggh. I can't stand C. 19:55:17 And Java *isn't* fast. 19:55:18 :P. 19:55:33 Especially on older machines. 19:56:35 Razor-X: got some benchmark? 19:57:16 lindi-: Not offhand, no. 19:57:27 Not as much speed as it eats up memory like the devil. 19:57:39 Especially on a box with only 256 MB of RAM. 19:57:54 depends on the program i guess 19:58:13 Even something small like jMemorize takes up almost as much memory as an Opera session with 40 tabs. 19:58:56 Java and GTK2 are the two biggest memory hogs for Linux. GTK2 is improving, but I can't see Java improving. 19:59:28 Not unless you use the OSS VMs, which require GNU Classpath for the most part, which relies on a bunch of stupid Gnome dependancies that I don't want to deal with. 20:00:39 Razor-X: gnu classpath has QT4 peers 20:00:50 Razor-X: and pure X peers are being planned 20:00:51 It uses too damned much memory. And I've got 1G. . . 20:01:26 "java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException at java.lang.reflect.Method.invokeNative(Native Method) at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:372) at jamvm.java.lang.JarLauncher.main(JarLauncher.java:49) Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException at jmemorize.gui.swing.CardTable.valueChanged(Unknown Source) at javax.swing.DefaultListSelectionModel.fireValueChanged(DefaultListSelectionModel.java:710) " 20:01:32 that's from jMemorize 20:01:41 Razor-X: What do you think of Dimensifuck? 20:01:53 C = nice. C++ = horrible but usable bastardization of C. Java = horrible, weak, insulting bastardization of C++. 20:02:09 (Insulting because it treats the programmer like an idiot) 20:02:29 Derrr, what are pointers? ME SCARED BY POINTER ARITHM...ARITH...ADDING N' STUFF! 20:03:35 lindi-: Oh yes, QT4 is also full of annoying dependancies. I only have QT3. 20:03:48 Jeeze. . . If you're going tu use C syntax, at least be willing to use the power of pointers. 20:03:49 depends :) 20:04:05 (They may be highly annoying at times, but they *are* powerful in the right hands) 20:04:07 Razor-X: i'm all in favor of reusing parts and not reinventing the wheel unnecessarily :) 20:04:08 I prefer C# over Java many times over, personally. 20:04:08 Actually, Qt4 has very few dependencies ... 20:04:19 -!- ChanServ has quit (Shutting Down). 20:04:27 Razor-X: and as i said, it is possible to add new peers quite easily 20:04:34 Razor-X: Oddly enough, C# is more free then C++. ;) 20:04:40 GregorR: I don't run any DE, or anything resembling one.... so anything that depends too heavily past GTK/GTK2 or base of QT is annoying for me. 20:04:58 s/C++/Java/ 20:04:59 x_x 20:05:07 Hehehe. 20:05:10 pikhq: I was gonna say ... :P 20:05:17 Yeah, I know. It's really ``hit it off'' in the OSS community. 20:05:18 Public service announcement: D. 20:05:33 lindi-: Are there any pure GTK2 or QT3 peers? 20:05:35 but portability is a problem with java definitely, too many programs run only on sun's class library 20:05:43 Razor-X: Which is disgusting, because as soon as it's big enough in the OSS community, M$ will drop their patent hammer. 20:05:52 For GNU Classpath, since I wouldn't mind running Kaffee just to bear with my Java programs. 20:06:27 GregorR: That's why Mono and are being written, no? 20:06:36 dotgnu 20:06:43 There we are. 20:06:53 Razor-X: You can't break copyright law without knowing it. You can break patent law without knowing it. 20:07:05 (oversimplification) 20:07:07 Heh. 20:07:20 Razor-X: there's GTK and QT4 currently 20:07:23 * GregorR goes to wash l'car. 20:07:32 Razor-X: GTK2 20:07:35 lindi-: But GTK depends on GConf. 20:07:39 Which is :( . 20:08:16 *the GTK version 20:08:21 well, if i can get freedom by spending some extra ram i'm all for it :) 20:08:48 Hmmm? 20:09:15 Freedom shouldn't come at the cost of the means of production. 20:09:25 (Shameless Marx reference.) 20:11:17 -!- ChanServ has joined. 20:11:17 -!- irc.freenode.net has set channel mode: +o ChanServ. 20:53:59 -!- _jol_ has quit ("co'o rodo"). 21:15:46 -!- smokecfh has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:46:05 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 22:46:10 hi 22:50:38 Hello. 22:52:05 any interesting recent developments? 22:55:02 Nothing. 23:04:13 hm. 23:06:10 -!- ihope__ has joined. 23:06:18 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 23:14:23 ihope: I think you'll be glad to hear that my infinite dimensional Brainfuck variant is now in the realms of sanity. 23:22:25 what makes you say that? 23:22:57 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:23:53 The last time he saw it, I think, it wasn't even ooD. 23:23:57 It was more like 3D. 23:24:08 * pikhq was highly confused then 23:24:08 -!- RodgerTh1Great has joined. 23:24:44 well, now dimensions are defined quite a bit differently. 23:25:19 the last spec I saw defined "dimension indices" in a format a bit like an IP. 23:26:16 Which is how it still works. 23:26:41 Really hasn't changed much since late last night. 23:28:32 -!- RodgerTheAfk has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 23:28:55 hm.