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00:36:22 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: Not in ERC.
00:36:33 <RodgerTheGreat> ah
00:37:19 <Razor-X>  /clear performs the same function as C-u 0 C-l.
00:37:40 <Razor-X> (Which is to center the current line with C-u x lines above it, here being 0.)
00:42:01 <lament> ewww emacs.
00:46:51 <GregorR-W> Don't you mean ELispOS?
00:47:06 <GregorR-W> The only tool ELispOS doesn't have a good implementation of is a text editor :(
00:48:27 <pikhq> ELispOS has two.
00:49:30 <pikhq> It implements Emacs (from the MIT AI Lab community) and Vi (from the old UNIX tradition).
00:49:33 <pikhq> ;)
00:49:47 <lament> it doesn't really implement vi
00:49:53 <lament> and the emacs implementation really sucks.
00:49:58 <pikhq> M-x viper-mode
00:49:59 <GregorR-W> Hear hear.
00:50:05 <pikhq> That starts up Vi.
00:50:12 <lament> pikhq: i've tried that.
00:50:14 <lament> pikhq: it sucks.
00:50:16 <pikhq> And the Emacs implementation really rocks.
00:50:40 <lament> pikhq: by which i mean, it doesn't emulate vi properly.
00:51:08 <pikhq> In fact, it's used universally in ElispOS (and is therefore is the UI guidelines in ElispOS).
00:51:26 <pikhq> lament: The Emacs implementation, though, really kicks ass. . .
00:51:35 <GregorR-W> But it's not written in Lisp.
00:51:41 <GregorR-W> So it's not formally in ELispOS.
00:51:47 <GregorR-W> Instead, it /is/ ELispOS.
00:52:06 <lament> GregorR-W: most of it is writen in elisp
00:52:18 <lament> maybe even all of it, not sure
00:52:21 <pikhq> Some of the functions it calls are written in C by necessity.
00:52:35 <lament> the emacs close in Scheme was certainly in Scheme, in its entirety
00:53:05 <pikhq> Most of the C code in Emacs, though, is just for the sole purpose of implementing Elisp.
00:55:52 <Razor-X> Of course.
00:57:33 <pikhq> It's like complaining that Dimensifuck's implementation isn't pure Python because the Python interpreter is written in C. . .
00:57:48 <Razor-X> Does the Scheme clone have an ELisp interpreter?
00:58:41 <pikhq> If so, then most of their work was cut out for them.
00:58:47 <Razor-X> Obviously.
00:59:00 <pikhq> Yeah.
00:59:09 <Razor-X> Although why ELisp still uses ``car'' and ``cdr'' escapes me.
00:59:27 <Razor-X> I vote for usage of ``cdadr''!
00:59:33 <pikhq> Tradition, no doubt.
01:00:01 <Razor-X> What's the tradition in cdadr?
01:00:39 <Razor-X> One Lisp book I saw a while back actually attempted to teach the correct way to pronounce those weird combinations.
01:01:39 <pikhq> I meant tradition for "car" and "cdr". . . -_-'
01:02:00 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl
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01:03:48 <Razor-X> Don't tell me cdadr isn't tradition :P
01:04:23 <Razor-X> It's one of those examples of When Tradition Goes Wrong.
01:04:29 <Razor-X> Like WWI, only less bloody.
01:05:01 <lament> Razor-X: um
01:05:14 <lament> Razor-X: cdadr might be ugly, but there's no other way
01:05:22 <Razor-X> lament: first and rest?
01:05:29 <lament> Razor-X: okay, now what would cdadr be?
01:05:41 <Razor-X> A combination of firsts and rests.
01:05:42 <lament> refirest?
01:05:56 <Razor-X> Well, just lump them. You don't have to make one keywoard :P
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14:02:25 <pikhq> Remember: the Internet is not a bunch of dump trucks.
14:02:33 <pikhq> It is a series of *tubes*.
14:03:17 <ihope> No, you got it backwards. http://abigtruck.ytmnd.com/
14:03:45 <pikhq> Now, in reality, I can think of a much better analogy.
14:03:56 <pikhq> Maybe like, oh, I dunno. . . A net? A web?
14:27:44 <GregorR> Remember, the Internet is a metaphysical construct composed of a vast number of computers operating on the same protocol.
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14:32:16 <ihope> IP?
14:33:47 <GregorR> Yeah, that's the one.
14:34:33 <ihope> Not TCP, not UDP, and certainly not SMTP...
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18:22:32 <GreyKnight> lament: FINE THEN
18:23:24 <lament> OKAY
18:25:45 <ihope> GO AHEAD. I DON'T CARE.
18:26:15 <GreyKnight> I like this one: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Emoticon
18:26:26 <GreyKnight> smileys as commands == brilliant
18:29:02 <Razor-X> X_> <-- return();
18:31:56 <Razor-X> !EgoBot eats babies
18:31:59 <EgoBot> eats babies<CTCP>
18:32:06 <Razor-X> Awww.
18:32:11 <GregorR-W> It reloaded, shaddup :P
18:32:12 <Razor-X> !EgoBot eats babies
18:32:14 * EgoBot eats babies
18:32:19 <Razor-X> :P
18:32:22 <GregorR-W> I guess I could rewrite that script *shrugs*
18:33:29 <Razor-X> Maybe I should start writing a blog and labor under this false illusion that other people care about what I do in my life.
18:34:06 <lament> only if you put naked pics there.
18:34:17 <GregorR-W> While you're doing that, post comments on MySpace so the morons^H^H^H^H^H^Hscumfucks on there can feel good about their putrid lives.
18:34:17 <Razor-X> See, no naked pics. So no-one will care.
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18:34:32 <lament> well, that's your own fault then
18:35:27 <Razor-X> Yay! MySpace!
18:35:32 <ihope> Hmm, blog...
18:47:56 <pikhq> MySpace + intelligence = undefined.
18:49:48 <ihope> What is the type of MySpace?
18:50:25 <Razor-X> Unknown.
18:50:53 <ihope> And what is the definition of intelligence?
18:52:38 <Razor-X> <...>
18:52:54 <ihope> Hmm...
18:52:58 <ihope> Meh.
18:54:02 <lament> what is the meaning of life?
18:54:43 <Razor-X> <...>
18:54:45 <ihope> What do you mean?
19:03:55 <ihope> Life: noun. 1. The state that precedes death and follows birth or conception.
19:04:10 <Razor-X> What is birth?
19:04:13 <lament> birth or conception?
19:04:32 <Razor-X> Wait, so that means you aren't alive when you're in the womb?
19:04:40 <GreyKnight> Depends on your definition
19:04:48 <GreyKnight> which is why it gives both :-o
19:04:50 <Razor-X> Yeah-p.
19:05:11 <ihope> Indeed-q.
19:05:13 <Razor-X> Is organic material considered alive?
19:05:14 <ihope> :-P
19:05:30 <Razor-X> Don't hurt the widdle Carbon atoms!
19:05:42 <Razor-X> Enough of that holy war starter :P
19:06:52 * GreyKnight wonders if there's any language in the wiki that should *not* be in Category:Turing_tarpits :-)
19:07:56 <ihope> Ones that aren't Turing-complete.
19:08:27 <GreyKnight> fair point
19:14:58 <Razor-X> English.
19:15:18 <Razor-X> Is Glass considered a tarpit?
19:15:21 <lament> GreyKnight: for example Smallfuck and Smetana
19:15:32 <lament> oh, not turing-tarpits?
19:15:36 <lament> befunge is not a tarpit
19:15:45 <Razor-X> True. Befunge isn't.
19:16:02 <lament> lots of languages aren't tarpits
19:20:05 <Razor-X> But the Citizens of Esome love making tarpits.
19:20:54 <ihope> Esome?
19:21:25 <Razor-X> The Esoteric Community.
19:22:45 <ihope> How can that be abbreviated Esome?
19:22:52 <Razor-X> It can't.
19:22:58 <Razor-X> Esome is a spin on Rome.
19:23:19 <GreyKnight> It's an esoteric reference, you see
19:23:53 <Razor-X> Read the logs and grep them for middle ages and BF and you'll find out where the analogy arose from.
19:26:20 <lament> no.
19:26:33 <Razor-X> Then you don't have to.
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20:18:15 <RodgerTheGreat> hi
20:19:17 <lament> no
20:19:38 <RodgerTheGreat> ?
20:30:10 <GreyKnight> Don't mind lament
20:30:36 <GreyKnight> Nobody else does :-)
20:30:54 <lament> :(
20:31:15 <RodgerTheGreat> heh
20:31:33 <RodgerTheGreat> j00 just got ownzed, lament.
20:33:55 <GreyKnight> What's that in English?
20:34:51 <RodgerTheGreat> uhm...
20:34:55 <RodgerTheGreat> lemme think.
20:35:18 <RodgerTheGreat> lament: your honour has been sullied.
20:46:45 <GreyKnight> stopping a piet program is kinda awkward
20:47:10 <GreyKnight> It'd be nice if there was an actual command for that... it's almost tempting to deliberately cause an error
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20:51:24 <RodgerTheGreat> well, errors were used as a way to halt on the Z1 and Z3 computers, way back in the day.
21:06:28 <Razor-X> I'm liking Scheme more than I liked Common Lisp.
21:07:03 <GreyKnight> heathen
21:07:08 <Razor-X> I know.
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21:18:11 <GregorR-W> http://www.codu.org/plof/2js/
21:19:16 <GregorR-W> Thank lament for the idea X-P
21:19:54 <Razor-X> Fine, Code-You.
21:20:52 <GregorR-W> In case you couldn't guess, it compiles Plof to JS.
21:21:00 <GregorR-W> Well, a subset of Plof.
21:21:58 <lament> to a subset of JS.
21:22:11 <GregorR-W> Yup :P
21:22:41 <Razor-X> That looks utterly esoteric and useless. I like it.
21:22:53 <GregorR-W> Um, the compiler or the language?
21:22:55 <lament> how is it esoteric?
21:23:04 <Razor-X> 2JS.
21:23:06 <Razor-X> Not the language.
21:23:08 <GregorR-W> Well, it's esoteric in that nobody knows about it :P
21:23:16 <GregorR-W> Heh
21:23:25 <GregorR-W> It's a way to produce portable executables ...
21:23:29 <GregorR-W> With the suffix ".html" :P
21:23:37 <Razor-X> Quite ``portable'' I say.
21:23:46 <GregorR-W> No socket support etc though ;)
21:25:53 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: I don't see an immediate use, but DAMNED if that isn't cool.
21:26:09 <GregorR-W> It's incomplete, too :P
21:26:31 <GregorR-W> I'm tellin' yah, when my OO-functional hybrid is done, I'll write some nifty programs and you'll say "WOW THAT'S NIFTY GREGOR OMGROFL"
21:26:32 <RodgerTheGreat> still cool.
21:27:00 <RodgerTheGreat> it's already nifty, but I'm holding back on the omgrofl
21:27:30 <Razor-X> Can I say LOLWFFL?
21:28:09 <RodgerTheGreat> wffl? waffle?
21:28:10 <GreyKnight> "I don't see an immediate use" <-- I imagine that goes for most of the programming projects discussed here :o)
21:28:32 <Razor-X> Lol Waffle.
21:28:34 <RodgerTheGreat> well, yeah. It doesn't lose any points for that as an esolang.
21:28:41 <GregorR-W> It's not an esolang >_<
21:28:42 <Razor-X> Like ROFL my Waffle, but it makes me look even stupider.
21:28:52 <RodgerTheGreat> Razor-X: ah, it makes sense now.
21:29:42 <Razor-X> Add in Regexps and some ub3r-parsing abilities, and you'll have converts really quickly GregorR-W.
21:29:53 <Razor-X> Some of 'em may even say OMGROFL OR LOLWFFL.
21:29:59 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: Thou shalt not build regexp's into a base language :P
21:30:06 <GregorR-W> As an extension, maybe.
21:30:11 <Razor-X> Yeah.
21:30:25 <RodgerTheGreat> overall, a very interesting interpretation of the word "compiler".
21:30:25 <GregorR-W> My #1 goal is absolute, 100% internal consistency.
21:30:27 <Razor-X> Add in a library and don't make other coders do the coding for that :P
21:30:30 <GregorR-W> RodgerTheGreat: True :P
21:30:39 <RodgerTheGreat> I ought to try something like that for another esolang...
21:31:07 <Razor-X> I was gonna try making a Glass interpreter in Scheme.
21:31:23 * RodgerTheGreat chokes
21:31:28 <GregorR-W> I was gonna try stabbing glass into my eye.
21:31:34 <GregorR-W> But then I went "Wait ... ow."
21:31:39 <GregorR-W> Same sort of experience?
21:31:43 <Razor-X> Then I get to go to Gregor and say NOW J00 DONT HAVE NO MONOPOLY WITH THAT LANGUAGE. VIVE LE OPEN SOURCE. LOLWFFL.
21:32:05 <GregorR-W> Dood, l'interpretere es source d'open.
21:32:17 <Razor-X> Est.
21:32:53 <Razor-X> Mais, je vais dir.... TAIS TOIS.
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21:33:29 <RodgerTheGreat> if I ever succeed in specifying synthesys, I shall create a PHP-based javascript compiler for it.
21:33:50 <Razor-X> Or maybe I should just fork Glass and call it RLass.
21:33:53 <Razor-X> Or maybe just Lass.
21:34:05 <RodgerTheGreat> heh
21:34:12 <oerjanj> Lass come home!
21:34:20 <RodgerTheGreat> "Glass... with the feminine touch"
21:34:25 <Razor-X> Perverted geek programmers will respect Lass more than Glass.
21:34:31 <RodgerTheGreat> naturally
21:34:48 <RodgerTheGreat> or at least suck up to it.
21:34:52 <Razor-X> Exactly.
21:34:54 <GregorR-W> Do you have such huge problems with Glass that you have to fork()? :P
21:35:07 <Razor-X> Yes I do Gregor.
21:35:12 <GregorR-W> ;_;
21:35:17 <GregorR-W> Wait, not emo enough
21:35:24 <GregorR-W> ;_˙
21:35:26 <Razor-X> You weren't going to cut yourself?
21:35:31 <Razor-X> Awww.
21:35:36 <GregorR-W> Can't have two tears.  Not emo.
21:35:39 <RodgerTheGreat> WITH GLASS? LOLWFFL
21:35:47 <GregorR-W> OMGHAWHAW
21:35:51 <Razor-X> So is that eye not crying, or did you destroy it or something?
21:36:03 <Razor-X> ;_V, the right eye is dripping blood while the left is crying.
21:36:07 <Razor-X> Now *that's* emo.
21:36:08 <RodgerTheGreat> it's crying, like, inside
21:36:11 <GregorR-W> Hahahha
21:36:15 <GregorR-W> ;_^
21:36:17 <GregorR-W> ^ Emo
21:36:21 <GreyKnight> :_'
21:36:23 <RodgerTheGreat> it's settled
21:36:40 <GregorR-W> ;_* < gouged his left eye out.  It hurts.
21:37:02 <RodgerTheGreat> so, Razor-X- have you built yourself a neural-net simulator?
21:37:18 <oerjanj> what is this, an Emoticon/Malbolge hybrid?
21:37:40 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: I should. I was thinking of an Esolang based on that.
21:38:03 <Razor-X> It was going to be a simple adder neural net, only I'd have to find some alternative to the XOR gate a conventional adder uses.
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21:38:24 <RodgerTheGreat> hm.
21:38:33 <wooby> hi
21:38:37 <Razor-X> But you can simulate XOR with other gates.
21:38:42 <RodgerTheGreat> well, you can easily simulate AND, OR, and NOT.
21:38:50 <Razor-X> You can't simulate XOR?
21:38:52 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, that's what I was getting to.
21:39:00 <RodgerTheGreat> I don't think you can with a single neuron.
21:39:11 <RodgerTheGreat> BUT, you could build them up.
21:39:15 <GreyKnight> You can't do XOR with one layer of neurons, but with two you can
21:39:22 <RodgerTheGreat> yes.
21:39:29 <Razor-X> Yeah, two neurons, exactly.
21:39:38 <Razor-X> It's trivial to prove why you can't do it with two.
21:39:46 <Razor-X> *with one
21:40:59 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, the math is pretty clear,
21:41:47 <Razor-X> But I do think simulating logic gates with neural nets is pretty stupid.
21:41:58 <RodgerTheGreat> but building a computer with neurons simulating simple gates kinda ignores their true advantages (like more than two inputs)
21:41:59 <Razor-X> Practically speaking :P
21:42:01 <RodgerTheGreat> yes
21:42:18 <RodgerTheGreat> we seem to keep coming to the same conclusions here.
21:42:37 <Razor-X> Well, you can use it to simulate quantum computing without your fancy Hadamard Gate.
21:42:38 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:42:48 <Razor-X> (Although I'll miss saying the word ``Hadamard'' :( )
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21:47:56 <RodgerTheGreat> ok... I think I'm good again...
21:50:59 <Razor-X> Hadamard.
21:51:14 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, I'll miss having to say that word.
21:51:34 <Razor-X> I never want to give up Backus-Naur :3
21:52:04 <RodgerTheGreat> Backus-Naur can stay for now.
21:52:26 <Razor-X> It's an awesome set of names.
21:52:45 -!- lament has set topic: #hadamard, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck - competition: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest.
21:54:28 <Razor-X> Yes! Hadamard!
21:54:57 <RodgerTheGreat> hm.
21:55:28 <RodgerTheGreat> could prove rather #Esoteric for some people. [insert rimshot here]
21:57:49 <GregorR-W> Backgammon-Narly
21:58:00 <GregorR-W> (Which is really gnarly, but anyway)
21:58:15 <Razor-X> Nah. Backus-Naur sounds like a Klingon name, or something.
21:59:53 <oerjanj> what, Back-Snore?
22:00:24 <GregorR-W> Bahahah
22:04:35 <Razor-X> You're pronouncing ``Naur'' to unpoetically.
22:04:50 <Razor-X> This isn't Eye-Rack, mmmkay?
22:04:53 <Razor-X> *too
22:06:38 <oerjanj> well, Back-Snower, then...
22:08:27 <oerjanj> hm, Naur appears to be danish. that _rarely_ implies poetical pronunciation.
22:08:55 <RodgerTheGreat> I thought it was pronounced like "Nahr"
22:09:17 <RodgerTheGreat> "Bach-us Nahr"?
22:09:46 <RodgerTheGreat> or "Bock-us Nahr", to be more phonetic.
22:10:19 <oerjanj> Backus was American.
22:10:27 <RodgerTheGreat> so?
22:10:41 <Razor-X> I can't think of any romanization to describe how I pronounce ``Naur''.
22:10:43 <RodgerTheGreat> Americans have the most diverse names of anywhere.
22:11:04 <Razor-X> Well, the EU's culture is slowly homogeonizing too, no matter how much they deny it.
22:11:05 <RodgerTheGreat> you can use umlauts.
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22:15:41 <oerjanj> the n in danish is fairly normal. i don't think au is a common danish diphthong.
22:16:15 <oerjanj> they tend to use ou instead.
22:16:45 <oerjanj> and the r is in the back of the throat, without a trill I think.
22:17:07 * GregorR-W ties his tongue in a knot trying to trill at the back of his throat.
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22:17:24 <GregorR-W> Yeah, I'd say probably no trill :P
22:17:26 <RodgerTheGreat> does that mean it'd be like "Nough"? (english prounciation thereof)
22:18:08 <oerjanj> scottish pronunciation maybe?
22:18:34 <oerjanj> (not that i know what that would be)
22:18:44 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, I think we're thinking about this on the same wavelength- I know what you mean.
22:19:34 <oerjanj> because danish r might be like a German/Scottish ch, except voiced and softer
22:19:51 <oerjanj> or like a German r except with muchless trill
22:20:18 <oerjanj> hm, do the germans trill, anyhow?
22:21:09 <oerjanj> anyhow, in that general phonetic neighborhood...
22:25:02 <GregorR-W> http://www.codu.org/plof/index.php?title=Plof%20Spec (search "set math")
22:25:26 <oerjanj> ok, i think you really may get quite close by pronouncing it as if it were German, which is might originally be anyhow.
22:26:12 <RodgerTheGreat> that's how I was pronouncing it in the first place.
22:26:23 <RodgerTheGreat> I know a fair bit of german.
22:27:05 <oerjanj> *it
22:27:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined.
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22:28:09 <RodgerTheGreat_> ARGH
22:28:11 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
22:28:17 <GregorR-W> RodgerTheGreat's connection rocks.
22:28:22 <RodgerTheGreat> that's friggin' annoying.
22:28:29 <RodgerTheGreat> now I know why this is free.
22:28:36 <GregorR-W> Bahahaha
22:28:46 <GregorR-W> Not even worth nothing, huh ^^
22:29:13 <RodgerTheGreat> guess so...
22:29:18 <RodgerTheGreat> ah well.
22:29:38 <RodgerTheGreat> I'll have a better connection when I move out of this hotel tomorrow.
22:31:49 <RodgerTheGreat> who here knows what MTU stands for?
22:32:42 <GregorR-W> Maximum Transmission Unit.
22:32:49 <RodgerTheGreat> WRONG!
22:32:52 <GregorR-W> It's the largest packet that can fit across a specified route.
22:33:09 <GregorR-W> ... Michigan ... Technology University?
22:33:14 <RodgerTheGreat> Michigan Technological University.
22:33:18 <RodgerTheGreat> yes.
22:33:21 <GregorR-W> lol
22:33:25 <GregorR-W> Michigan was a random guess XD
22:33:36 <RodgerTheGreat> TOMMORROW, begins orientation week.
22:34:32 <RodgerTheGreat> and then I get to savor sweet freedom (whilst, in theory, being forced to do oodles of homework. piddling details.)
22:36:06 <GregorR-W> Do you know what STFU stands for?
22:36:48 <GregorR-W> South Trenton Filmography University.
22:37:08 <RodgerTheGreat> how about Lowe Tech?
22:37:28 <RodgerTheGreat> Or the Ontario Mega Finance Group?
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23:25:15 <ihope> Hmm, programming language.
23:25:34 <ihope> I design it, you guys implement it, okay? :-P
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23:30:27 <RodgerTheGreat> ihope: depends.
23:32:31 -!- GregorR-W has changed nick to GhostOfGregor.
23:33:06 <GhostOfGregor> ihope: So long as what you design is Plof.
23:33:15 <GhostOfGregor> And you give me the credit (since I wrote it, really)
23:34:00 <ihope> Hmm...
23:34:24 <ihope> Eh.
23:43:11 -!- pgimeno has joined.
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23:47:19 <pikhq> Did someone kill Gregor?
23:47:26 <c_plus_plus_rawx> Yes.
23:47:32 <c_plus_plus_rawx> And then they blamed D.
23:47:47 -!- c_plus_plus_rawx has changed nick to GregorR-W.
23:56:56 <CakeProphet> My Mom is seriously considering homeschooling now.  :P
23:56:57 * CakeProphet jumps around in excitement.
23:56:59 <CakeProphet> ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
23:57:16 <lament> sounds scary
23:57:49 <ihope> ^_^_^_^_^?
23:57:58 <lament> homeschooling
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23:58:56 <GregorR-W> ...
23:59:10 * GregorR-W shudders at the thought.