00:07:51 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 00:12:12 * GregorR-W can't seem to commit to the eso files archive X_X 00:13:44 X_X 00:14:02 R_R 00:15:13 D_D 00:15:41 Y_Y 00:15:52 N_N 00:16:10 Q_Q 00:21:06 /_/ 00:21:36 ?_? 00:22:27 ÿ_ÿ 00:23:08 ø_ø 00:23:10 ¤_¤ 00:23:40 I have no idea why there is a ¤ key on my keyboard layout 00:23:59 Is it where $ is supposed to be? 00:24:47 No, I press Alt Gr+# (which, on a UK keyboard, is next to ') -- this is hungarian 101-key layout 00:25:21 Hmm... 00:25:38 * ihope adds that layout to his repertoire or whatever they're called 00:26:15 instead of typing :o, I can type ö 00:27:16 this lahey-space container is doing my head in :( 00:27:19 :o ö o: 00:27:33 * GregorR-W can't make an upside-down ö :P 00:27:53 ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ 00:27:53 There, itás in Hungarian. 00:28:02 Iáll figure out how to make apostrophes later. 00:28:07 shift+1 for apostrophe. 00:28:24 Have fun trying to type XML. 00:28:34 Ah, there it is. 00:28:48 < isn't in a handy place, eh :P 00:29:10 00:29:34 What's the difference between > and >? 00:29:50 proably 0 00:30:04 And between \ and \? 00:31:29 Not sure. The best bit is the cunning switch between z and y, which I keep failing. And they moved 0 to the left of 1. 00:31:59 ... Why would they switch z and y >_> 00:32:38 My std::map has duplicate keys, my comparison function works, there must a really dumb error here somewhere 00:33:05 Maybe I typo'ed it to multimap... 00:33:37 -me attempts to switch back to the US layout 00:33:42 -me fails 00:33:47 Hahahaha 00:33:58 Emoticons are all different ÉüÖ 00:34:09 /Ü/ 00:34:16 Ü 00:34:19 Best emoticon 00:34:33 * ihope tries again and succeeds 00:34:43 Ű? 00:35:13 Θ 00:49:27 * Asztal wonders how the flaming bovine interpreter ever worked 00:49:56 Flaming bovine interpreter? 00:50:05 Is there a language called "flaming bovine"? 00:50:33 it's a befunge-98 interpreter, but it's method of partitioning 2d space didn't work when I tried it 00:51:42 Hmm, I wonder what the cheapest, heaviest material you can get to fit in an envelope is .. 00:52:09 I want to make responses to credit card offers with "no" checked and a ten pound block of iron. 00:52:28 Mercury has the advantage that it's poisonous 00:52:47 Well, I don't want to be accused of trying to poison anybody. 00:52:56 I just want to make them foot the bill on something ridiculous. 00:53:14 try sending 33 cents back with it, then say it was a mistake and ask for it back 00:53:29 No quoting bash directly :P 00:53:44 That /inspired/ my block of iron. 00:53:59 ah :) 00:55:15 iridium? 00:56:57 According to Wikipedia, Iridium is rare on Earth. 00:57:49 Not cheap then. 00:59:02 Right. 00:59:33 Bismuth. 00:59:41 $7.7/kg 01:01:48 * GregorR-W begins buying Bismuth :P 01:05:13 I want a bismuth crystal now: http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/23/c7/ba_1.JPG 01:05:50 Woah, that rocks. 01:05:57 I wouldn't be mailing them that ;) 01:06:02 I'd mail them crap Bismuth. 01:29:39 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("kill(getpid(), SIGWEEKEND)"). 01:40:31 Argh. . . 01:40:51 Where the did my copy of _The End of Eternity_ disappear to? 01:41:00 I've been itching to reread that for years now. 01:41:02 :'( 02:03:27 -!- calamari has joined. 02:42:49 .... How long does QT4 take to build? 02:43:37 1 or 2 hours on my box. 02:43:52 It's 2 hrs. 10 mins. and going for me. 02:44:00 Hmm. 02:44:01 Although it b0rked up last time. 02:44:35 I might be a bit off on my estimate. 02:45:02 Blah. Annoying. 02:45:08 And to think, I'm doing this all for GNU Classpath. 02:47:14 It also gets pulled in as a dependency for Compiz. . . 02:47:29 No idea why; Compiz uses GTK. 02:48:01 ... 02:48:05 GNU Classpath uses Qt? 02:48:27 As opposed to the GNU Image Manipulation Program Toolkit? 02:48:39 Classpath needs either GTK 2.6 or QT4 for AWT support. 02:49:14 And I assume you don't want GTK? 02:49:17 How 'bout Swing? :) 02:49:37 . . . Can't blame you, though. GTK is some fugly kludge. ;) 02:49:41 AWT and Swing. 02:49:54 I don't want GTK because GTK needs to be 2.6. 02:50:05 ... what a tragedy ... 02:50:08 And to update to GTK 2.6, I need to mess with my glib and a whole bunch of other useless things. 02:50:19 . . . Or just use emerge. 02:50:23 ... or just install it outside of /usr 02:50:52 No. I don't have the correct depends for GTK 2.6 is the issue, I think. 02:50:57 gtk+ -> pango, atk. pango -> glib, cairo. atk -> glib. glib -> libc 02:51:08 So: glib, atk, cairo, pango, gtk+ 02:51:29 Which would just be taken care of if you would use Gentoo instead of Slackware. 02:51:39 Distro wars are not allowed. 02:51:43 :P 02:51:50 pikhq loves his holy setup. 02:51:56 Especially not battling between the two worst Distros. 02:51:57 ;) 02:52:24 If QT4 fails to compile, I will get very angry. 02:52:33 Razor-X: Prepare to be angry. 02:53:38 GregorR: Thank you :P. 02:56:28 ACTUALLY, to be perfectly fair, Qt4 is a fairly nice build, given its bredth. 02:57:16 I just shudder and think about the amount of time put into coding that behemoth. 02:58:57 Actually, Qt is architecturally very, very nice. 02:59:01 Huge, yes. . . 02:59:13 But it's really well-designed. One needn't shudder. 02:59:17 GTK, on the other hand. . . 02:59:29 IT DOES OBJECT ORIENTATION ON C, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! 02:59:31 I don't like GTK because it's a lot slower than QT, in my experience. 02:59:40 C++ does object orientation on C :P. 02:59:51 And so does Java, to be fair. 03:00:01 C++ does it by making a (slightly different) language. 03:00:14 GTK does it in a huge behemoth of a library (glib). 03:00:29 Well, at least they didn't use ObjC. 03:00:33 Be happy. 03:00:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GObject Pain. Agony. Sorrow. 03:01:06 It's Malbolge for C. 03:01:09 GObject is more fun than ObjC. 03:01:27 ObjC looks like someone cast Unholy Merger on Smalltalk and C. 03:02:36 PLEASE tell me you invented that "spell name"? 03:02:43 Yes. I did. 03:02:48 *whew* 03:02:51 Why? 03:03:26 Frankly, I'm happy with structs. 03:03:49 GObject looks like someone mixed Malbolge, C, Brainfuck, and medieval torture devices. 03:04:23 I could use tiny-clos in Chicken too, but (define-structure) is fine enough for me. 03:05:42 Reminds me of ruby somewhat. 03:05:54 I still don't see why Java had to do away with the if (blah) { ... } syntax and instead if (blah != null) { ... }. More ``clean'', huh? Maybe you should remove ternary if-statements then. 03:07:00 . . . Java did *that*?!? 03:07:01 WTF? 03:07:16 Yeah. Supposedly more ``clean'', and yet they support a ? b : c 03:07:17 I swear, I'm going to go and fuckin' kill some Java engineers. 03:07:24 So did C#, didn't it? 03:07:28 Did it? 03:07:33 Their references don't resolve to bool. It's sort of ridiculous, as it's not actually confusing the other way. 03:07:48 Tcl, an admittedly high-level language, doesn't do anything like that. . . 03:07:52 Yeah, that's why. 03:07:57 Because a bool and an int have nothing in common. 03:08:04 Which is *stupid*, but even still. 03:09:26 Tcl has a procedure "if". One of it's arguments is a Tcl expression (evaluated by expr). This is pretty much just a superset of such C expressions as a ? b : c, a!=c, etc. . . 03:09:39 Sane. Clean. Highlevel. 03:09:51 C got it right there, at least. ;) 03:09:51 Unfortunately not on the AP test :D. 03:13:20 Yay. 8 kHz sine wave. 03:45:37 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 03:52:18 I can't help but feel glorious at that 48 MB package that is the fruit of 2.5 hours of computer labor. 04:13:05 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:14:38 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:14:51 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 05:14:55 -!- CakeProphet_ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 05:58:18 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Connection timed out). 06:43:03 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 07:22:57 -!- CXII has joined. 07:23:05 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:38:43 Ninight all. 07:39:47 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:42:05 -!- CXI has joined. 07:42:40 -!- CXII has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:39:06 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 09:52:12 -!- kipple_ has joined. 10:01:48 The version of QT4 I compiled is too new for GNU Classpath. 10:16:37 -!- Arrogant has joined. 11:20:59 -!- jix has joined. 11:21:05 -!- ihope_ has joined. 11:38:15 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:30:37 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 12:38:45 -!- Sph1nx has joined. 13:43:36 -!- tgwizard has joined. 14:29:40 -!- Asztal has joined. 15:23:06 -!- Sph1nx has quit (Client Quit). 15:56:49 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:23:05 Argh. 16:41:41 Argh? 17:05:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit). 17:14:21 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 17:34:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:41:27 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:00:04 -!- boblol has joined. 18:00:37 hi 18:00:43 'Lo. 18:00:59 sup? 18:01:47 -!- ihope_ has joined. 18:01:52 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 18:05:50 so anyone here that has made an esoteric language? 18:06:24 Most of us have. 18:07:03 uhm 18:07:04 k 18:07:31 * pikhq has also done the equivalent of strapping a jet airplane onto skateboard (BFM compiling to Brainfuck) and a skateboard onto a jet airplane (BFM compiling to C). 18:07:56 i dont get one thing :P 18:08:19 BFM is a macro package for Brainfuck that I wrote out of boredom. 18:08:27 Much more recently, I retargeted it to C. 18:08:31 ok 18:08:46 so if i want to make an esoteric language, where do i begin? 18:09:07 With a good idea for one. 18:09:18 yeh, and if i have a good idea+ 18:09:19 *? 18:09:26 (please: no Brainfuck variants; that's been much abused (by myself, even)) 18:09:32 Write up a spec. 18:09:50 im from sweden :P not so very good at english..spec? 18:09:52 Start thinking about how to write an implementation (or get someone sufficiently bored to do it for you). 18:09:56 Specification. 18:10:21 Just stating exactly how the language works, basically. . . 18:10:22 I'm sufficiently bored, if it's a good idea. 18:10:29 ok 18:10:52 so like i got an idea, writes down how it works, and make someone do it for me...but what if i want to do it myself? 18:11:04 Then do so. 18:11:22 but how? 18:11:27 i dont know one thing about this 18:11:35 I recommend talking your idea over in here for a bit; we're quite willing to help. 18:11:44 oh ok 18:11:56 but then i got enough info 18:11:58 thankies 18:12:42 so if you've done esoterics, wich one(s)? 18:12:52 Dimensifuck. 18:12:57 never heard of 18:13:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Dimensifuck 18:13:49 oh that is too complex for me.. 18:14:25 Same here. Thus why I didn't implement it myself. XD 18:14:49 ok, so what is this "implement" = 18:14:50 *? 18:15:29 I'll explain by example: a C compiler is an implementation of the C programming language. 18:15:36 ok 18:15:38 Tclsh is an implementation of Tcl. . . 18:15:40 Etc. 18:16:03 so its like a language, same as another language but with addons? 18:17:30 but starting with brainfuck..what is its main purpose? just outputting text? 18:17:30 No, I mean that it's a program to allow the computer to actually *run* code in that language. 18:17:40 um 18:17:55 Brainfuck's original purpose was to devise a language for which a *really* tiny compiler could be written. 18:18:06 oh ok 18:18:10 It was quite succesful (the first compiler used about 241 bytes of code). 18:18:17 :P 18:18:35 but it still only outputted text 18:18:48 No, it's Turing complete. 18:19:10 oh not another thing i dont know a thing about :P sry but im really a beginner to this 18:19:13 Which means it's (theoretically) capable of computing anything that can be computed. 18:19:22 ok 18:19:32 One could (in theory) write a PC emulator for it. 18:19:41 ok 18:20:07 think it would be possible making a bot with it? 18:20:54 One *could*. . . 18:21:12 but? 18:21:12 Assuming, of course, that you're really *that* insane. 18:21:17 hehe :P 18:21:31 but how would you then solve if statements? 18:21:53 It's got while statements. One can implement if statements on those. 18:22:09 while foo { 18:22:15 comment {code here} 18:22:20 set foo 0 18:22:20 } 18:22:24 um 18:22:31 can that be done in brainfuck? 18:22:35 Yeah. 18:22:56 but it doesnt use { and } as operators right? 18:22:58 That example was in BFM, a macro language which compiles to Brainfuck. 18:23:16 It'd look more like: >>[code here[-]] 18:23:20 Err. 18:23:28 >>[code here<<[-]] 18:23:36 and the code would be? 18:23:40 Argh. Bleh. You know what I mean, right? 18:24:10 well yeh, just that you really cany have "code" in brainfuck, since it only uses arrays 18:24:16 number arrays 18:24:34 Say, >>+[<<[.,]>>[-]] 18:24:41 Or, in BFM: 18:24:49 @ foo 0 18:24:50 but nothing happens 18:24:51 @ bar 2 18:24:56 while foo { 18:24:59 while bar { 18:25:01 in bar 18:25:05 out bar 18:25:05 } 18:25:11 set foo 0 18:25:11 } 18:25:19 ... 18:25:26 how well do you know brainfuck? 18:25:40 I know it fairly well, I'd say. 18:25:43 ok 18:25:47 so i tryed out that code 18:25:55 didnt happen anything 18:26:04 I was trying to give you an *example*. . . -_-' 18:26:19 well yeh, now there's this problem i dont really know brainfuck very well 18:26:26 i suck at math too 18:26:33 The above code would, in fact, run. 18:26:44 but nothing would happen 18:27:26 but lets say i want to make an esoteric language..what would its main purpose be? 18:27:36 if (foo==1) {bar=0;while (bar) {putchar(bar);bar=getchar();}} //C equivalent. 18:27:55 i dont speak c sry 18:28:31 The reason why the code does nothing is that bar=0. while(bar) {}, therefore, is just skipped over. 18:28:40 um ok 18:28:46 but lets say i want to make an esoteric language..what would its main purpose be? 18:28:56 Hmm. I don't know. 18:29:03 That's for you to decide. 18:29:36 but hey all i can think of is nothing...should it calculate stuff or what? i mean first of all i got to understand mathematics realtive to these things 18:29:54 *relative 18:32:17 hm i got an idea, im just gonna go think little more about it 18:32:23 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:32:25 -!- boblol has changed nick to boblol|thinking. 18:36:03 ok done 18:36:07 i got a basic idea 18:36:35 seems useless and completely dumb but it is there 18:36:56 -!- boblol|thinking has changed nick to boblol. 18:37:02 Hmm. 18:37:14 wuduzido. 18:39:00 it uses the numbers 1-6 (perhaps 7 too) . and > as operators 18:42:02 and until further it can only output text.. 18:42:37 so.. 18:42:48 anyone wants to hear? 18:43:31 -!- Keymaker has joined. 18:44:22 hello. a new brainfuck program that outputs the sequence of factorials :) 18:44:24 http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/facto.b 18:45:05 Shoot. 18:45:07 interesting 18:45:19 well do you have email, i could send it there :P would be easier 18:45:36 Pastebin it. 18:45:44 ? 18:46:08 http://pastebin.ca/ 18:46:28 Keymaker: That'd be easier if you wrote it in BFM. :p 18:46:31 ok so im just gunna write it all down, how it works and so on 18:47:07 bfm? 18:47:12 brainfuck macro 18:47:29 -!- boblol has changed nick to boblol|writing. 18:48:01 It's what I've been fiddling with for the past few weeks. . . 18:48:21 Most recently made it target C (efficiently). XD 18:48:26 why would it be easier that way? anyways, sorry, not interested in that macro bf 18:48:57 Actually, it'd mostly be easier for me to study it. :p 18:49:04 :) 18:49:29 did you run it yet? :) 18:49:37 facto.b 18:49:43 Haven't yet. 18:49:49 ok 18:49:58 Trying to figure it out. :p 18:56:52 ok done, here it is: http://pastebin.ca/173205 its really messy i know, im not good at explaining, so if you have any questions, just shoot 18:57:34 -!- boblol|writing has changed nick to boblol. 18:58:54 Mmkay. . . 18:59:10 That's a cruel, cruel way of representing text, but where's the Turing completeness? 18:59:31 i said it could only output text, from now 18:59:44 but it might be improved i dunno 18:59:54 well, what other purpose programs have then producing output? ;) 19:00:03 ? 19:00:08 Keymaker: Calculating something first. 19:00:13 then=than 19:00:18 And, of course, input. 19:00:22 :P 19:00:46 told you it was dumb and completely useless my idea, but still it was an idea :P 19:00:55 was joking.. 19:01:11 but there you have an idea at least 19:01:42 Not as bad as Malbolge, but I like that idea so far. . . >:D 19:01:55 yay =D 19:02:04 it could be improved a lot 19:02:58 so how about making it reality? :P 19:03:59 Not at the moment. . . 19:04:31 oh well 19:04:59 someone sufficiently bored to do it for me? 19:06:50 first of all; how long would it take to make it reality? 19:07:29 that depends a lot. a language can be made in a few minutes but thinking and designing can take months, too 19:07:39 but=or 19:10:15 oh 19:10:17 k 19:10:55 well, it's just the same than in anything else -- you can spend minutes or years thinking something :) 19:11:20 and sometimes never finish, and sometimes do 19:11:34 yeh, but now i've got the language done right? :P 19:12:06 For now, maybe. 19:12:10 well, yes, if you say so :) it's an output-only language that's unsuitable for computation :) 19:12:17 haha yeh :P 19:12:24 but its a language 19:12:54 Kind of like Brainfuck Audio. :p 19:13:08 CUBSO perhaps? Completely Useless Binary System Output 19:13:21 Love the name. :) 19:13:26 yeh :D 19:13:52 :) 19:14:33 so now i need some kind soul to make it reality =D 19:14:47 Could probably do it in Bitchanger. :p 19:14:57 wich is? 19:15:11 Like Brainfuck, except it only operates on bits. 19:15:15 oh 19:15:16 k 19:15:37 but how would the final product look like? like a source developer program, like bf dev? 19:18:33 ? 19:19:14 We'll have to wait and see. 19:19:19 oh 19:19:41 cuz there must be a source editor to it right? cos how should one be able to make code with it? 19:19:51 Emacs, of course. 19:20:48 huh? what is that? 19:21:03 boblol: the ultimate text editor 19:21:24 It's also a nice OS. :p 19:22:25 um..well i'll see when its done ;P 19:23:24 wait are we talking about the same thing now? 19:23:26 boblol: done? 19:23:42 cuz i mean a source editor for CUBSO 19:29:17 Does this suck as much to you as it does to me? http://www.deviantart.com/view/39896261/ 19:29:20 It's a combination of 6 different fractals photoshopped into a flower. 19:29:23 (Clicking on it gives you the full-sized picture) 19:29:43 lemme check 19:30:08 ive seen better 19:30:37 >.> Well I imagined -someone- had to be better than me.. 19:31:00 i never said it was bad 19:31:04 i like fractals 19:31:37 in fact i've done over 30 fractals 19:32:16 Okay... 19:32:30 but i never put them into things... 19:32:36 that could be cool 19:32:42 how do you do fractals? use some program? 19:32:47 not manually, i guess 19:32:49 Pretty much 19:33:10 All of the fractals in that one were rendering using Chaoscope. 19:33:16 Thought so. 19:33:19 i use Apophysis 19:33:30 Chaoscope uses strange attractors and whatnot to map out fractals. 19:33:50 im just trying to get my beoplayer to work 19:34:03 oh there we go 19:34:12 CakeProphet: what version do you use? 19:34:19 * CakeProphet shrugs 19:34:59 It says 0.3 :/ 19:35:10 .. 19:35:24 fractals are nice, yeah. i've made a few simple ones manually, on paper :) 19:35:36 oh 19:35:37 kool 19:35:43 Ah. I have the 3.0alpha version ;0 19:36:40 i use apophysis 2.02 19:39:53 .. 19:40:42 sup? 19:42:22 hey keymaker how does facto.b work? 19:44:30 did a window or something open? 19:44:37 um 19:44:39 no 19:45:08 well, nevermind. i tried to open some private window. ok 19:45:17 oh well you mean that 19:45:18 yes 19:45:19 it did 19:46:04 ah 19:46:15 why? 19:46:15 hah 19:49:37 why? 19:49:37 what why, that is 19:58:51 so.. 19:58:55