00:00:11 Boolfuck. . . Gah! 00:00:16 :P 00:00:28 The character 64: >>>>>+; 00:00:44 Without optimization, of course. 00:01:13 Again: Gah! 00:02:10 ;+;+;;;;;; would actually be the appropriate code, BTW. 00:02:59 Oh, duh. 00:03:25 I was thinking of it modifying one byte at a time. 00:03:31 Hey! Idea! 00:03:37 Yeah? 00:04:07 A BF-derivative. Extensions to BF that allow you to work on bits, and output the current byte. 00:04:26 Hmmm... current byte would be pretty... freeform though. 00:04:51 egobch --easy-io 00:04:53 (IIRC) 00:05:03 (The flag may be something else :P ) 00:05:14 bch? 00:05:22 BitChanger 00:05:43 --easy-io adds . and , which output the byte 00:05:50 Erm, output and input :P 00:05:56 Drat. Thought of already. 00:06:03 but with boolfuck there is no constant improvement. unlike bignum brainfuck where you can improve 137 to +>>+++[-<+[-<++>]<[->++<]>+>]< 00:06:17 Byte using artificial byte divisions? 00:17:26 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:17:49 -!- Eidolos has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:17:51 * pikhq mutters about his peers being somewhat less intelligent than him 00:18:08 When bored, they do. . . Watch TV? Go to parties? Like I know. 00:18:21 When bored, *I* design a programming language and write a compiler for it. 00:18:22 :) 00:18:42 Go write an interpreter for http://www.codu.org/plof/ 00:19:37 pikhq: in the C part for left, right and goto you don't set ::current, something i think might bite you with _goto current. 00:19:56 oerjan: Thanks. 00:20:11 GregorR-L: No thanks. 00:20:17 I'd rather do a real Lisp. :p 00:20:37 Plof and lisp aren't particularly similar. 00:21:33 Fixed and up on server. 00:22:00 GregorR-L: Yeah. . . Lisp is worth learning. :p 00:22:27 But not worth using ;) 00:22:52 Razor-X: Care to do the honors? 00:23:01 * pikhq hands Razor-X some rusty knife blades 00:23:04 Oh boy, I can extend Emacs ... AND NOTHING ELSE 00:23:04 :P 00:23:40 Hmmm? 00:23:48 GregorR-L: In other news, Emacs has everything needed for a real OS but a window manager. 00:23:59 I'm well aware. 00:24:01 pikhq: so? 00:24:05 And it's sad. Terribly, terribly sad. 00:24:05 And that's probably going in the next release. 00:24:09 pikhq: so does os x. I'd rather use os x. 00:24:35 lament: I'd rather not give up my freedom, thanks. 00:24:43 I'd rather use GNU/Linux. 00:25:05 But it would be interesting to make a minimal microkernel and then implement Emacs as a kernel-level interface :P 00:25:14 Making Emacs /literally/ your operating system. 00:25:25 Indeed, it would be interesting. 00:25:39 Kernel level Elisp interpreter. ;) 00:26:05 So BFM is written in partly C partly TCL? 00:26:44 Razor-X: No, it's all in Tcl. He's referring to the bits that implement the C target. 00:27:38 BFM compiles to C? 00:28:03 pikhq: i don't think you have fixed the bug 00:28:04 It's one of the target languages. 00:28:45 oerjan: Curses, you're right. 00:29:07 i would suggest doing a split of at into _at, like with goto. 00:29:34 then you can just use calls to at in all the places. 00:29:54 oerjan: Would probably be cleaner. 00:30:19 oerjan: New tarball posted. 00:30:30 Will need to clean up the source a lot sometime later. 00:31:11 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:31:21 But shouldn't BF be the only target of BFM? 00:31:30 Or is this a BF->C compiler? 00:31:42 It's a BFM->C compiler. 00:31:53 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 00:31:58 ... Can't see why, but can't see why not either :D 00:32:17 "Why?" "Why not?" is the whole concept behind it. 00:32:44 Just like Perl! 00:32:56 Soon as I fix bfmc's stdlib up a bit, I'll ship BFM with two sets of macros: one generic, one which is just a wrapper for the underlying C. . . 00:33:08 Do you have a specification of BFM done? 00:33:28 *Had*. 00:33:38 What happened? 00:33:50 BFM evolved faster than the spec. 00:34:06 Somebody set BFM up the bomb. 00:34:49 Care to revise the spec? 00:35:10 Not at the moment. . . 00:35:43 pikhq: you have to change right and left as well. and the current should still be ::current, i think. 00:36:04 Then I guess I shall see if I can read TCL. 00:36:08 Where's the tarball? 00:36:18 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bfm.tar.bz2 00:37:11 oerjan: Fixed. 00:37:54 Razor-X: If you want some example code, feel free to ask. 00:41:41 pikhq: one more time, with _feeling_ :) 00:42:11 oerjan: ?? 00:42:59 What's array? 00:44:33 Can you declary variables? 00:44:41 *declare 00:44:48 Razor-X: Um. . . A command that keeps coming up at random that I though I had played with, realised was broken, and removed long ago? 00:44:55 @ variable location 00:45:02 Declaration of a variable. 00:45:21 Is there any dedicated variable space? 00:45:36 The whole Brainfuck array. . . 00:45:57 You specify each variable's location when you declare it. 00:46:22 So variables exist at the location of the pointer when you declare? 00:46:27 Yeah. 00:46:33 Err. 00:46:39 pikhq: you misspelled it 00:46:49 They exist at the location you specify. 00:46:54 Oh. 00:46:56 You aren't going to abstract variables completely? 00:47:01 Nope. 00:47:17 Like I said: fairly low level stuff. 00:48:31 For efficiency's sake, I would think a dedicated variable space is more effecient though... 00:49:12 I fail to see how. 00:50:24 I guess. 00:50:39 Unless you think [<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-] is more efficient than {<+>-]. :p 00:52:24 pikhq: current, that is 00:52:56 I'll fix in $minutes. 01:00:46 pikhq: So, how 'bout my proposal? 01:01:22 I wanna try and write a ByteChanger interpreter in ASM, and then I'll port BF to ASM. Can you extend portions of BFM to compile to ByteChanger? Like stdcons? 01:01:38 Or, heck, we'll write stdcons directly in ByteChanger. 01:08:11 Razor-X: Please, no. 01:08:23 BTW, I don't have stdcons.bfm written at all. XD 01:08:44 * oerjan peers out guiltily ;) 01:12:32 Pfft. Fine. 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Fortunately, I have PEEK. 23:38:04 Peek peek peek! 23:38:15 I'll whip up a little ascii/hex editor, and see if I can find my bearings. 23:38:47 RodgerTheGreat: wait, writing all this on the alphasmart thing? 23:39:06 nothing is quite as fun as stepping manually through memory with a jury-rigged memory viewer coded in BASIC 23:39:11 oh, hell no. 23:39:18 I'm IRCing from my mac. 23:39:43 are you insane? It won't have an IRC client... until I code one. ^_^ 23:39:46 come on.. where is your network stack coded in bf? 23:39:58 naturally, I'll have to build my own network interface for it as well. 23:40:08 -!- tgwizard has quit ("Leaving"). 23:40:24 interface it with a usb memory stick 23:41:37 the unit has an interesting ROM-cartrige interface slot I may play with later- it might be possible to do some bit-bashing and get R/W on it, allowing things like that. 23:41:59 otherwise, I have a serial port that shouldn't be too hard to interface with. 23:42:01 RodgerTheGreat: this is what I want to wire onto an ipod: http://www.brolinembedded.se/projects/keyboard/keyboard_advance.jpg 23:42:17 yeah, that serial port is the way to go 23:42:19 ooh. that would be sweet. 23:42:56 yeah.. would certainly improve typing speed over the standard interface 23:43:02 I think I'll see about trying to interface the serial port with the serial port on one of my spare palms, and then I can use the palm as an external storage unit. 23:44:25 first: memory map. then, I'll see about the serial interface, and then I'll take a crack at coding a proper BF environment in Z80 asm. 23:44:32 my weekends are booked for a month. 23:47:51 :D 23:48:22 tiny BASIC interactive systems make me insanely happy 23:48:32 Best. OS. ever. 23:49:51 sounds like you'd like an ibm pc then 23:50:13 well, you have to load BASIC from a disk on a PC. 23:50:25 I'm trying to get ahold of a C64. 23:50:32 an apple ][ would be fun as well. 23:51:41 didn't the ibm have basica in a rom ? 23:51:58 hm. I don't *think* so... 23:52:03 pretty sure it did 23:52:12 and it'd load into it if you don't have a disk 23:52:38 * calamari checks wikipedia 23:53:05 "BASICA allows use of the ROM-resident BASIC included with early models of IBM's PC while DOS is loaded " <- sounds like you're right. 23:53:29 The original PC had a version of Microsoft BASIC ?IBM Cassette BASIC? in ROM. 23:53:36 quote from the IBM PC article 23:53:40 hehe 23:54:01 not quite as portable tho 23:54:12 well, this explains why the "BASICA" command never did anything in DOS- it only works if you have a ROM with BASIC on it already. 23:54:25 yeah, otherwise you need gwbasic 23:54:31 or QBASIC. 23:54:54 there was no qbasic 23:55:07 at least during that time frame 23:55:42 gwbasic is still handy, because it's small and fits better on a boot disk 23:56:16 yeah, agreed. 23:56:59 does it ever bother you to see some of the languages passed off as BASIC these days? VisualBASIC and BlitzBASIC have almost nothing in common with the true language. 23:58:53 hmm.. speaking of the "true" language.. I emailed Kurtz who co-wrote it one day asking about it, and got a reply 23:59:08 so that was pretty neat 23:59:14 woah, cool. 23:59:35 anyhow, in the "true" version there were only double precision values