< 1162339846 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162340405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been contemplating making C2BF target BFM instead of raw Brainfuck. . . < 1162340626 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1162344420 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h244.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162345064 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1162345162 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1162345707 0 :NoneGiven!n=NoneGive@82-38-206-74.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1162345752 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162345809 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h244.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162345828 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162345885 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h244.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162345942 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162346001 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h244.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162347329 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162347428 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162347789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night." < 1162348078 0 :xor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1162348625 0 :NoneGiven!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1162348968 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :xor_ < 1162350395 0 :thematrixeatsyou!n=thematri@219.89.219.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162350430 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"); < 1162350436 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1162350443 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1) putch('!'); < 1162350507 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1) eat(&candy); < 1162350522 0 :Roger_The_Bum!i=Roger@c-71-225-61-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162350528 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1162350696 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you obviously don't seem to enjoy using pointers < 1162350748 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(candy->flags & F_EATEN) *iq++; < 1162351035 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor, better known as ^ < 1162351255 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if( candy_count > 15 ) vomit(); < 1162351971 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162352025 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1162352661 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1162352974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("HELLO");for(char i=0;i!=255;i++) {putch('!');}putch('\n'); < 1162352995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1162353109 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(int i=0;i<100000;i++) { *0; } < 1162353178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . < 1162353243 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(int i=0;i<100000;i++) { *(void*)0; } < 1162353609 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello(calamari->microphone); < 1162353616 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello(calamari->ear); < 1162353618 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1162353646 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1) do_stuff(); easter_egg(); < 1162353654 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi thematrixeatsyou < 1162353672 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing much since RETURN < 1162353682 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((()()())(()()())(()()())) < 1162353688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons32 bar : foo;while bar {out bar} < 1162353896 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(setq x (cons 1 2))(cons (car x) (cdr x)) < 1162353963 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free(findprop(xor->abilities,"lisp")); < 1162353990 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1162354204 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++[>++++++++++++<-]>+.+.+. < 1162354272 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++[>+++++++++++++<-]>++++.+++.---. < 1162354310 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare_brainfuck_funct("++++++++[>++++++++++++<-]>+.+.+.",printf,"cba"); < 1162354437 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me->flags |= F_TIRED; < 1162354439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ bar 0;@ foo 1;cons96 foo : bar;add foo 1;out foo;add foo 1;out foo;add foo 1;out foo < 1162354449 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf language is that < 1162354454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFM. < 1162354457 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1162354470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the equivalent of your Brainfuck code. < 1162354501 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1162354520 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me->flags |= F_CONFUSED; < 1162354777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFM is a macro language for Brainfuck. < 1162354786 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1162354866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fond of it (I designed it). . . < 1162354874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not understanding how it works? < 1162354917 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1162355045 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the cons stuff? < 1162355364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shortest Brainfuck version of constants (for wrapping implementations). < 1162355398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the Esolangs wiki. < 1162355450 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of you any good at wireworld? < 1162355460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only recently heard of it. < 1162355466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommend any implementations? < 1162355616 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementations of wireworld? < 1162355623 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, MCell < 1162355661 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mirwoj.opus.chelm.pl/ca/ < 1162355662 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :choose Rules Table -> WireWorld < 1162355759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free software, please. < 1162355824 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it IS free < 1162355840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so I can use, study, share, and change? < 1162355989 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use = yes, study = yes, share = yes, change = i don't know < 1162356026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Study the source. < 1162356042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not finding it. < 1162356287 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no source, but you can add stuff using user DLLs < 1162356304 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add rules using user DLLs, that is < 1162356317 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooh. < 1162356333 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried making a sort (Sequential?) in Forth. < 1162356340 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooh. I gave up. < 1162356369 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't coded forth for a long time < 1162356376 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have that much time in a day. < 1162356388 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its weird < 1162356406 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft. Just getting it to iterate over an array took me a good while to understand. < 1162356423 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I don't remember how to do that < 1162356433 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's really logical.... < 1162356460 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks something like: ( addr length -- addr ) CELLS SWAP DUP ROT + SWAP < 1162356468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thematrixeatsyou: That's not freedom. < 1162356491 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can enter a DO loop and it will iterate over the array, as long as you write to the memory location of the index. < 1162356530 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err.., just ( addr length ) describes the stack in the beginning. < 1162356832 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the java one has source < 1162356842 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, IF you like java < 1162356948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it Free? < 1162357023 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java: YES < 1162357041 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need it to be 100% free? < 1162357049 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with the standard 99% free? < 1162357057 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 1% < 1162357057 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually 90% < 1162357062 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 10% < 1162357064 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey gregor < 1162357093 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be 100% free if you knew ASM and had a disassembler < 1162357100 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a reassembler < 1162357106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if I were allowed to change it. < 1162357114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And share it. < 1162357116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And study it. < 1162357118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use it. < 1162357120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more to source than the function. < 1162357132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without this, it cannot truly be called Free. < 1162357165 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly anything outside the esolang wiki is truly free < 1162357177 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH < 1162357182 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thematrixeatsyou: You are oblivious < 1162357186 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thematrixeatsyou: What's GNU? < 1162357192 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1162357196 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1162357196 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1162357209 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, just ridiculously massive amounts of software. < 1162357211 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTHER THAN THAT THOUGH < 1162357217 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU isn't just a drop in a bucket, you know? < 1162357220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/Linux is free. < 1162357229 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU = you can change it but you still have to say who it's by and that < 1162357229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As are the BSDs. < 1162357240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. . . < 1162357249 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attribution is not a restriction X_X < 1162357249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an issue of freedom. < 1162357257 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1162357277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comment doesn't restrict what you can do with the code. < 1162357316 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can use it and study it, and should be able to share it. if you can disassemble it and change it im pretty sure mirek won't mind. < 1162357416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not good enough. < 1162357431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An explicit guarantee that I'm allowed to change it. < 1162357534 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask him < 1162357552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask him for the source and a BSD or GPL license. < 1162357877 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ol' communism < 1162357958 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1162358897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communism != liberty. < 1162358936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL does not provide for a commune, it provides for a system where by the free market may work in truth. < 1162359415 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpl is annoying < 1162359425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1162359435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It provides freedom. < 1162359442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely freedom is anything but annoying? < 1162359455 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More free than microsoft, sure < 1162359459 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still not free < 1162359465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it not free? < 1162359474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only freedom you lack is to take away freedom. < 1162359489 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't license my derivitave work how I like < 1162359497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't take away freedom. < 1162359515 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be free I have to be able to do whatever the hell I want with it < 1162359521 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL isn't like that < 1162359539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL allows you to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't prevent anyone *else* from doing the same. < 1162359557 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1162359558 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1162359574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me one right you don't have with the GNU General Public License. < 1162359582 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't license it with any license but the GPL < 1162359607 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. sounds analagous to "vendor lockin" < 1162359609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no "right to take away freedom from others". < 1162359610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1162359622 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic < 1162359635 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is < 1162359647 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only truley free license is public domain < 1162359651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the power to enslave. < 1162359663 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL is the power to enslave < 1162359673 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enslave everyone with the GPL < 1162359678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, GPL removes the power to enslave. < 1162359686 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD, MIT licenses, they are free enough < 1162359687 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, what xor_ is saying is that the GPL takes away the freedom of the programmer to choose open-source or not once they build upon the work of others. < 1162359690 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the GPL < 1162359707 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with this assertion. < 1162359707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it takes away the freedom of the programmer to hurt others. < 1162359713 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly < 1162359731 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open-source should *always* be a choice made by a creator, not a requirement. < 1162359760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freedom shouldn't be a choice; it should be a natural result. < 1162359778 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a problem with the existence of open-source software, but I sure as hell don't like being bullied into giving my creations away when I don't want to. < 1162359795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like being bullied into not sharing with others. < 1162359806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A non-copyleft free software license allows this. < 1162359810 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GPL bullies you into using the GPL < 1162359849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL prevents a few programmers from hurting others. A BSD license allows a few programmers to hurt the rest of society. < 1162359856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me, which is better for society? < 1162359885 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL hurts the programmers < 1162359898 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of projects that weren't released because of the gpl < 1162359904 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm trying to make a living, screw "society" and the "free everything" culture that pervades the internet. < 1162359918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: It's not about cost, it's about freedom. < 1162359945 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every one person that wants open-source to look at the code and learn, ten people want it so that they don't have to hand over cash. < 1162359947 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the freedom to do _whatever_ you want with my code < 1162359962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html < 1162359979 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all for free software < 1162359991 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not GPL < 1162360006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: With a non-copyleft license, freedom is only granted to those who receive it directly from you. < 1162360034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone receives it through a third party, they are as surely enslaved as they would be by something that's fully proprietary. < 1162360042 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a GPL it never was free < 1162360054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, GPL ensures that everyone is free. < 1162360068 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...within the confines of the GPL. < 1162360089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the GPL is constructed in such a way that one cannot take freedom away. < 1162360106 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesen't that sound a lot like anti-freedom? < 1162360121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does? < 1162360123 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you force someone to subscribe to freedom, you're removing the freedom of using freedom. < 1162360132 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, Razor-X. < 1162360137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We force people to not have slaves. < 1162360143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this make us not free? < 1162360153 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1162360156 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I get some free code from you, I should have the freedom to use a BSD license < 1162360163 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1162360174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make those who would be slaves not free? < 1162360179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it liberate the slaves? < 1162360191 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The are free to rebel against their enslavers < 1162360209 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a heavily loaded metaphor, and one rife with logical fallacy < 1162360244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the slave owners are free to have them hung. < 1162360255 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not arguing for the reinstatement of human slavery, but it's a situation in which the removal of a freedom prevents attrocity. < 1162360271 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These aren't humans. This is source code. < 1162360288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which affects large sections of humanity. < 1162360300 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paralell could be made that closed source code is an atrocity < 1162360301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far more people than slavery, I believe. < 1162360309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is what I believe. < 1162360334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It prevents cooperation, holds back knowledge, and tells people that sharing is wrong and immoral. < 1162360334 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are entitled to your beliefs, but you are not entitled to impose your beliefs upon others. < 1162360335 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you can radically change the corporate world, closed source cannot die from an economic perspective. < 1162360370 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should not only have the freedom to distribute my source code, but I should have the freedom to release it under any license. The GPL is also picky about a whole bunch of other matters. < 1162360382 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and precisely the culture that feeds upon open-source is why it cannot fill the same niche as closed-source. < 1162360385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Nonfree surely imposes beliefs on others just as much as copyleft free? < 1162360392 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: you are < 1162360395 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about creative commons? < 1162360429 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with the creative commons licenses < 1162360433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, nonfree enforces the idea on others that software is property, sharing is wrong, and you shouldn't learn. < 1162360437 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the GPL allows you to charge money for the distribution of source code at a price related to the price of distribution. Talk about loophole. < 1162360459 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer a sort of software patent system, personally. < 1162360463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the GPL doesn't specify a limit on selling the software. < 1162360482 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to give the source with it < 1162360483 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ideas have no tangible value, why do skillsets? < 1162360495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The limit is merely provided by what people are willing to pay. < 1162360512 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legal vendor lockin, with distributed source code. The knowledge is free, but for a certain number of years, the implementation is locked in. < 1162360512 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My personal favourite: "This is made by ; if you redistribute or use parts of this program, you must include this sentence somewhere readable." < 1162360532 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thematrixeatsyou: exactly < 1162360536 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that point if you still want more, that implies that you want to do away with the notion of software profit. < 1162360546 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an MIT license < 1162360555 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free enought for me < 1162360572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a system whereby the length of copyright is brought down, and, upon being released in the public domain, the source code is also released. < 1162360586 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright is horrendous. I agree. < 1162360594 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way dude < 1162360594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be a signifigant improvement on how things are now. . . < 1162360596 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL is good, but I feel it can be better. < 1162360603 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one should be forced to reveal code < 1162360608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'd still prefer software that's free *now*, but. . . < 1162360617 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: Why not? Distribute knowledge. < 1162360634 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, only the vendor can receive profit from the knowledge, but the knowledge is free. < 1162360636 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping secrets is a freedom you deserve to have < 1162360642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: The idea of the public domain is simple: the copyright owner has had enough time to make a profit, and now it's time that the public get back what they deserve. < 1162360655 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying they should, just that they should be able to < 1162360670 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the public doesn't deserve jack shit < 1162360675 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: ? < 1162360682 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you vehement anti-Socialist? < 1162360687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: Tell that to the US Constitution. < 1162360702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Declaration of Independence. < 1162360705 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1162360713 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Declaration of the Rights of Man. < 1162360717 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about a world where freedoms aren't limited by the constitution < 1162360730 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: When we get that world, we'll see. < 1162360742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The government is limited by the US Constitution, not the public. < 1162360752 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: Given the will of the people, I wholeheartedly believe that Communism is the best way. < 1162360763 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1162360766 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: But the push needs to be uniform, something that won't happen any time soon, as I can see it. < 1162360766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the public's limitations are enforced in blatent violation of the US Constitution) < 1162360803 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with communism isn't the system itself, it's the people who create and use it. < 1162360807 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Given the will of the people" -- this means not forcing out secrets < 1162360808 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1162360828 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: But Communism encourages no secrets. < 1162360836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: Funny. . . This is about forcing out secrets to benefit the public. < 1162360879 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of the non-frothy-revolution-kill-kill portion of Marx-Engel's manifesto was to say that the aristocracy needs to sacrifice for the good of the people. < 1162360886 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forcing people to release sourcecode against their will would be equivalent to forcing people to release medical records so that they might be studied by doctors for the "common good" < 1162360889 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS has the right to keep its code secret < 1162360907 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it can indefinitely. < 1162360915 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else you'll have monopolies a la Industrial Revolution. < 1162360948 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the public wants MS's code, they can convince MS to give it to them < 1162360964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: No, it's more akin to forcing someone to release the workings of an invention. . . Which we happen to do daily; we call it "the patent system". < 1162360967 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I firmly believe knowledge is not property. < 1162360977 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowledge is a birthright. < 1162360983 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm, no < 1162360996 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once knowledge is released, it's out there < 1162360996 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowledge isn't property, but the application of knowledge can most certainly be. < 1162361005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor_: The problem is that MS excercises this 'right', and in doing so, prevents *everyone else* from having knowledge. < 1162361012 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, you have the capability to use knowledge as property, that can and should be encouraged, but only temporarily. < 1162361027 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Which is why I advocate a legal vendor lockin, while distributing the source code. < 1162361034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preventing others from having knowledge *surely* holds back society as a whole. < 1162361045 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bed time < 1162361053 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have Window's source, sure, but we can't make money selling modifications. < 1162361065 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go ahead, hack at it all you want for free. < 1162361066 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: such a system would be an acceptable alternative to forced release of code, assuming it was enforceable < 1162361067 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight all < 1162361081 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I hope we can do something like that. < 1162361085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night, xor_ < 1162361121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My position is quite simple: < 1162361131 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering rampant abuse of source available for commercial products by pirates and the like, I don't see such a system working in the near future... < 1162361137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rights of all of society overrule the rights of a select handful of people. < 1162361146 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1162361151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1162361152 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is more important < 1162361178 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sleeping < 1162361188 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's happening though RodgerTheGreat. Look at the stupidity at patenting emoticons. < 1162361194 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need look no further than the OSX86 project and apple's open-source efforts to see examples of the abuse I mentioned. < 1162361213 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that stupid iPod interface fiasco. < 1162361219 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1162361227 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I patented the MENU SYSTEM!!11!! < 1162361231 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, wtf? < 1162361288 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was a bit narrower than that, but primarily they were trying to avoid blatant ripoffs of their design. I admit, most major software companies are guilty of frivolous patents. < 1162361355 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it the same way as some forms of DRM- you can't blame companies for trying to protect their interests from a general public that feels no guilt for what amounts to stealing, at least when this DRM remains within reasonable limits. < 1162361367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe several centuries of history are at odds with you. < 1162361402 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I agree. The public and the private are at fault with DRM. < 1162361417 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The private for shamelessly abusing concealement, the public for shamelessly lauding piracy. < 1162361448 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why I dislike outright demonization of DRM- there are many shades of gray in there. < 1162361453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html Read and tell me again about the "right to take away freedom". < 1162361524 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally find FairPlay to offer me a fair balance between rights and restrictions, and I choose to support it with my money. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't simply cry foul "because it's DRM! OMFG!" < 1162361572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I find that FairPlay is a misnomer, which restricts what I can and can't do with a work. . . It's merely a less harmful master. < 1162361647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X: The public is at fault for demanding the right to share, now that it can fully excercise this right? < 1162361699 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what right to share? Do you honestly think that the contents of a CD is entirely paid for by the cover price? < 1162361757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you've got one CD, the next copy is nearly free. < 1162361787 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because they can easily manipulate and convert data from modern formats seems to have convinced people that they have significantly more ownership over data they purchase licenses to than they could by any reasonable definition. < 1162361811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to introduce you to copyright law, pre-printing-press. . . < 1162361820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" -- The entirety of copyright law. < 1162361824 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pre- meaningful. < 1162361840 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preindustrial reasoning holds little bearing in the information age. < 1162361844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we are now in post-meaningful times. < 1162361851 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :times change, and concepts must change with them. < 1162361867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And copyright law is from the age of the printing press, not the information age. < 1162361872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is time for concepts to change. < 1162361903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright law made sense, once. < 1162361911 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implying that we should disregard all laws created in the last 50 years, on the grounds that the old way of doing things used to make sense? < 1162361913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a short restriction on what a publisher could do with a work. < 1162361933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, it is used as a long restriction on what the public can do with a work. < 1162361958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: No, on the grounds that the old way of doing things is a slightly less fancy version of the new way of doing things. < 1162361979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pre-printing-press=old way) < 1162362002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the printing press, everyone who could make use of a work could make a copy of a work. < 1162362024 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because before the printing press, it was insanely laborious. < 1162362027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd take no longer than anyone else, and would be no better than anyone else's (discounting differences in handwriting style). < 1162362037 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before the word-processor, it was again more laborious < 1162362043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was laborious, but everyone who could make use of a work could copy it. < 1162362049 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before the internet, it was again more laborious < 1162362057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, after the printing press, anyone can make a copy of a work. < 1162362084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll take no longer than anyone else, and be no better than anyone else's. < 1162362100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that copying is much less laborious than pre-printing-press days. < 1162362130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The printing press age was unique in that only a select few could make "professional" copies of a work. < 1162362143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This age is drawing to an end as we speak. . . < 1162362286 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of "demanding the right to share" assumes that the creator of a work deserves no rights over what they build. No one has the right to *demand* unlimited access to the creations of another, be it software or music. The right to share must be balanced by the right to keep. < 1162362316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right to hold back society, you mean? < 1162362383 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has the right to value their personal interests above those of society if they so choose. It may not be popular amongst "society", but it is a right nevertheless. < 1162362414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A select few (monarchy, the Catholic church, aristocracy, corporations. . . The names change, but not the concepts) restrict what everyone else can do. . . Throughout the ages, this has been the balance. < 1162362434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should we respect the rights of a select few, so that the rest of us may be subservient? < 1162362495 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should your work in school reward you personally with a high grade, while others in your class suffer with lower grades? Why should the work of your parents go to feed your family first, rather than hungrier families elsewhere? < 1162362548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An inapt analogy. < 1162362579 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is built on the very concept I posited earlier, merely applied to different situations. < 1162362587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software can be copied; if food were like software, nobody would need to starve. < 1162362603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except, of course, for the wishes of farmers who wished to prevent food piracy. < 1162363495 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't believe the public has, by birthright of being the public, any more power than a ruler. < 1162363498 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is discrimination. < 1162363548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We live in a society where (nominally) the ruler is a servant of the public. . . < 1162363567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that notion, the public has power over the ruler. < 1162363580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sadly, this isn't how it works in reality. . .) < 1162363627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As proven by the many organizations which are masters over us (Shall I list them?). < 1162364091 0 :GregorR-L!n=GregorR-@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162364109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves < 1162367921 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162367948 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1162367999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1162368000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1162368363 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1162369308 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go get some zzzz, bai bai < 1162369363 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Buyer beware: The orange ones fuck you up real fast" < 1162377939 0 :ihope!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162379325 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-103fe155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1162380384 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162382524 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@58.77.172.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162383038 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162383609 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@58.77.172.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162396821 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles at the mess that is the x86 register set < 1162396963 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles at the mess that is x86. < 1162396972 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1162396979 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those "string" instructions < 1162396987 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ascii adjust < 1162397157 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins at the EAX vs AX vs AH vs AL distinction < 1162397190 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at the "addressing" registers < 1162399097 0 :GregorR-L!n=GregorR-@192.55.60.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162400328 0 :GregorR-W!n=gregor@jffwprtest.jf.intel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162400430 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1162401645 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :xor < 1162402440 0 :jix!n=jix@L6238.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1162404452 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.72-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1b2/0000000000]" < 1162408873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has made a program to make strings.bfm maintainence much, much easier < 1162411240 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So x86 is an ugly kludge? < 1162411822 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a modern OS that runs on a CA processor < 1162413560 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162413723 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1162414322 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h119.230.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162418382 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1162419294 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1162419766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivan`: Design a PowerPC system in Wireworld. < 1162420388 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1162421491 0 :xor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1162421935 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1162423376 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162423390 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does postscript count as an esoteric language? < 1162423407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1162423409 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1162423433 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my first question should have been, what is the definition of an esoteric language? < 1162423458 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think postscript counts as an esolang if you code it yourself. < 1162423470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that was not primarily intended to be useful. < 1162423488 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those that say otherwise haven't seen the postscript game of life or raytracing simulations < 1162423502 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are esolangs designed to be semi-useful. < 1162423504 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made a postfix graphing calculator < 1162423509 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1162423516 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leet < 1162423523 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pwnix.be/graph.ps < 1162423525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling it the HP-49G? < 1162423535 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should code an rpn proggy for my calculator < 1162423536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Oh. Postscript. < 1162423538 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscript < 1162423538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. < 1162423539 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1162423541 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding. < 1162423543 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep doing that < 1162423608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think postscript is any more esoteric than forth. and i have coded a little in it. < 1162423622 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the 'not intended to be useful' definition, it probably isn't. < 1162423640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is pretty esoteric < 1162423653 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it certainly isn't a language most people consider a useful programming language < 1162423675 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1162423678 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go < 1162423682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very useful in its domain. < 1162423685 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1162423685 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good work, meatmanek. < 1162423698 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you earn a gold star. < 1162423701 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1162423736 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1162423737 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION idles. < 1162423740 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't wait for it to render < 1162423849 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, it only takes a few seconds. < 1162424283 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162424986 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Forth is esoteric. < 1162425008 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just bridges the large gap between ASM and C. < 1162425017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Forth's just a whee bit quirky. < 1162425027 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each operation is useful though. < 1162425032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge difference between "esoteric" and "quirky". ;) < 1162425036 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1162425045 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think C is da** annoying. Not esoteric though ;) < 1162425111 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know that da** is dang. < 1162425442 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "darg" < 1162425478 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much you know of the unwritten laws of censorship. < 1162425523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no it's davy < 1162425570 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dada", as in the artistic movement, perhaps?