< 1164328890 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is .NET?! < 1164328895 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stay AWAYYYYY! < 1164328944 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather .NET than perl ;) < 1164328951 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1164328962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am obliged to warn you that this whole channel is in fact .NET too. < 1164328963 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather CLR than Perl < 1164328965 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure about that? < 1164328985 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think carefully my friend. CLR is horribly bloated. Perl is not. < 1164328998 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Perl is horribly fugly. < 1164329007 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1164329007 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is C. Point? < 1164329015 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C != CLR < 1164329019 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1164329034 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't horribly bloated. It's horribly fugly. < 1164329037 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of languages other than C on the CLR, you know :) < 1164329048 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme beats 'em all, and then some. < 1164329064 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'd have to say I prefer ruby, but I don't think there's a .rb ccTLD :( < 1164329065 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, C on the CLR? Ewww. < 1164329082 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-like languages, sorry ;) < 1164329084 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so pointless, IMO. < 1164329137 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's Scheme?! Bah! Where's Forth?! < 1164329150 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define CLR #f) < 1164329151 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you like COBOL.NET < 1164329167 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can use it with managed Direct X < 1164329174 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Mono on this box. < 1164329182 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direct X. EWWW < 1164329188 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk about commercial and nonportable. < 1164329232 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's true. But somehow I still prefer it to OpenGL ;) < 1164329233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is F#, which is an Ocaml clone < 1164329250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activex is somewhat of a non-issue < 1164329257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even run in my OS < 1164329264 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have to care about museum software < 1164329290 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'd a heard of F#. < 1164329299 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Then your code stays on your platform. < 1164329305 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1164329326 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While Mac OS X and *Nix can share. < 1164329328 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My games do :) < 1164329354 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaML's syntax looks god-awful. < 1164329371 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I tend to (try to) write them so they're more or less API-independant < 1164329372 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would think S-expressions look bad, but OCaML is just *shudder* < 1164329389 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Razor-X;; < 1164329421 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no game programmer. Although I've been feeling like playing around with OpenGL in Scheme some time for the heck of it. < 1164331589 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.198.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1164341577 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=thematri@222-152-165-185.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1164342561 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@c-71-193-149-252.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164343073 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1164345876 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1164345924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1164346715 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1164347459 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1164348745 0 :GregorR-L!n=GregorR-@c-71-193-149-252.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164350321 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FailureLobster < 1164350340 0 :FailureLobster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :LobsterOfFailure < 1164350828 0 :wooby!n=alan@ny-lancastercadent4g1-3a-236.buf.adelphia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164352806 0 :LobsterOfFailure!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR-L < 1164353760 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1164355199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1164355200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1164355460 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1164356127 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1164357505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1164357827 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An ever shorter Forth quine: < 1164357833 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source type < 1164357859 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an even SHORTER Forth quine: < 1164357889 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1164357895 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blank) < 1164357903 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good job my friend. < 1164357910 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't send blank mesgs... gays < 1164357932 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1164357947 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, can't send blanks with a /raw command either :( < 1164358427 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@c-71-193-149-252.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164358470 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-71-193-149-252.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164358625 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways gonna get off so bye < 1164358670 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1164361815 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1164361906 0 :Razor-X!n=user@user-11faaoj.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1164369865 0 :ka_1900!n=aktam200@196.218.104.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1164370064 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can any one plz tell me what is going on with this code !? < 1164370066 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pfo.pastebin.com/831922 < 1164370093 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is supposed to print a number ,.bt it prints another totally different number < 1164370273 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey pppl!! < 1164370276 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody here < 1164370277 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1164371342 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's undefined behaviour < 1164371379 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler is free to do whatever it likes < 1164371428 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there is a logic behind this ,. < 1164371469 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is < 1164371505 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_point < 1164371557 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to remember that function arguments can be evaluated in any order < 1164381727 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164382526 0 :jix!n=jix@L624f.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1164383209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1164384287 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal < 1164384292 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r us still there ? < 1164384309 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this logic i sent u b4 is making me crazy < 1164384845 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand the problem you're dealing with. < 1164384862 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ? do u got an answer ? < 1164384903 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an easy way to fix it- don't do multiple pre- and post- increments on the same variable in a function call < 1164384937 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace ++x with (x+1) and so on- then your code will function how you expect it to. < 1164385006 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is nt in the wrong answer ,. the problem i have to solve ,. is why it is doing so ,. btw this is the right code < 1164385010 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/831918 < 1164385214 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Asztal said- function arguments can be evaluated in any order, and several of your arguments change the value of X. < 1164385261 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we make it step by step together ??? < 1164385280 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1164385304 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1164385326 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nothing to go through step-by-step- you can effectively assume that the arguments you pass to your function are evaluated randomly, because it's undefined behavior < 1164385350 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it is not randomly < 1164385350 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int x = 5 ; printf("%d%d%d%d%d", x++, ++x, x, ++x, x++) ; < 1164385368 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first printf should print 5 < 1164385369 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right ? < 1164385421 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second and third printf should print 7 ? right ? < 1164385426 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function arguments aren't necessarily evaluated from left to right, that's what I'm trying to get through to you. < 1164385438 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last ++x and x++ should print 8 , < 1164385469 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the calculation is done left to right and printed right to left ,. why ?! < 1164385488 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the calculation gives 57788 < 1164385496 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it prints 88775 < 1164385497 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why !? < 1164385550 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the calculation is done left to right and printed right to left ,. why ?! << it isn't done from left to right < 1164385581 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously being done right to left in this case, and it'd probably do something else on a different compiler. < 1164385594 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined. behavior. < 1164385631 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there is nothing called undefiend behaviour ,. our proffessor told us it has a logic and we have to find out why < 1164385651 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ka_1900: huh? < 1164385652 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than read the c standard < 1164385706 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and professors can be wrong < 1164385754 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever a function call is made with arguments that are expressions (x+5, x--, etc) they have to be evaluated before the actual function operates on these values (at an abstract level). The order in which arguments are evaluated is compiler-defined. < 1164385763 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it works, period. < 1164385809 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual time at which the statements are evaluated in machinecode is determined by the compiler, which is *why* it's compiler-defined < 1164385860 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-ac3ee155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1164385881 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer that this is undefined behavioud < 1164385884 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r* < 1164387364 0 :ka_1900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1164389354 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1164392547 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-a93ee155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1164397249 0 :xor!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1164397267 0 :xor!n=gavin@about/copyleft/user/bsmntbombdood JOIN :#esoteric < 1164398779 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a very cool idea for a new esolang! < 1164398810 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah doesn't work < 1164398821 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was lying i just wanted to test a script and needed people to talk < 1164398847 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1164398862 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1164398866 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1164398925 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1164399665 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h205.250.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164399806 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1164401475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't assume that arguments are evaluated randomly, because it's undefined behaviour; you must assume that _anything_ can happen, including the computer exploding. < 1164401485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't necessary evaluate any arguments at all. < 1164401526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To answer the conversation that was here over four hours ago.) < 1164401579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's undefined behaviour since it modifies x multiple times between sequence points.) < 1164401796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual evaluation order is implementation-defined, but that's another issue. printf("%d%d\n", printf("foo\n"), printf("bar\n")); does not have any undefined behaviour, but what it prints is implementation-defined. It must be "foo\nbar\n44\n" or "bar\nfoo\n44\n", though. (Barring any IO errors or such.) < 1164402148 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h205.250.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1164403549 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, true. I was just trying to explain things simply < 1164403647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mercy! < 1164403674 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1164404325 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1164404593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1164409482 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1164412475 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h205.250.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric