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00:14:53 <Asztal> Didn't old versions of GCC used to start playing the towers of hanoi if you encountered certain undefined behaviour?
00:15:40 <RodgerTheGreat> it's mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undefined_behavior
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04:35:23 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: What's the Java equivalent of a struct?
04:45:46 <RodgerTheGreat> Razor-X: I'm pretty sure you'd just use a container class- just make a class that has the variables you need, possibly a constructor and (if you want to use information-hiding principles) a collection of getters/setters
04:47:15 <GreaseMonkey> Razor-X: Wtf are you doing programming in *java* anyway?!
04:47:30 <Razor-X> GreaseMonkey: Cross portability, high level (moreso than C).
04:47:43 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: Well, I'd know if it was a general purpose struct, but I need to use the struct's properties of named byte fields.
04:48:08 <Razor-X> I basically need some sort of container for bytes that can be fed to an output port serially.
04:49:11 <RodgerTheGreat> hrm.. well, I may have a weak understanding of the capabilities of structs (I am not a C coder), but you might be able to use chars
04:49:50 <Razor-X> A struct is really simple. It's a chunk of contiguous memory containing the variables of choice.
04:50:47 <GreaseMonkey> and higher frustration, and higher chance of getting sacked.
04:50:50 <Razor-X> GreaseMonkey: If this was time critical, I'd do it in C.
04:50:56 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, I always thought of it as serving the same function as container classes, only less OO overhead when you don't need it
04:51:02 <Razor-X> It's a concept test, which I prefer to do in an easier environment.
04:52:05 <Razor-X> struct point { int x; int y; } has a size of 2 ints (2*sizeof(int)). The way I'm using structs here though is telling a function to send a struct of size sizeof(struct blah), so that the bytes stay in order.
04:53:17 <Razor-X> This is why I was initially reluctant to do this in a higher-level language, because it does get pretty low-level in places.
04:53:42 <Razor-X> But managing timeouts in C is a *pain*.
04:57:26 <Razor-X> Do I have to use an array of bytes ? I wanted something named, so...
04:58:44 <Razor-X> Forth's as low as I (like to regularly) go, sorry.
05:00:52 <GreaseMonkey> i still prefer C to anything else except for when it's being a pain in the ass
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05:04:11 <Razor-X> I can't even believe I coded before I learned Lisp.
05:04:17 <Razor-X> It was like, an enlightenment.
05:04:22 <calamari> had to go to 5 stores to find a halfway decent kitchen apron for my wife, and then it was $20
05:04:26 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: CharSequences are what I need, no?
05:05:36 <Razor-X> No, I mean a CharSequence.
05:06:08 <Razor-X> It seems to be the low-level mechanism behind Strings.
05:06:29 <Razor-X> Oh... but it's read-only :(
05:06:38 <GreaseMonkey> Razor-X: MOV $2000,Razor-X; ADD $2000,UserSuggestions; MOV ($2000),LearnARealLanguage
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05:51:05 <xor> Am I the only one here who actually likes c?
05:53:48 <notCakeProphet> Oh sure it's machine efficient... but it sucks at human efficiency.
05:54:24 <xor> Lets you be creative
05:55:15 <GregorR> My ideal world has C as an intermediary language used by compilers. Takes a lot of strain off of writing compilers (for higher-level languages) without diminishing efficiency to any significant degree.
05:55:47 <xor> Yeah, compiling to asm for a new language is stupid
05:56:03 <GregorR> C is very nice because nothing is black-box.
05:56:13 <GregorR> It's an easy transform from the language to machine code.
05:56:18 <GregorR> You can mentally compile everything.
05:56:29 <GregorR> Unlike Java, where EVERYTHING is black-box.
05:56:40 <GregorR> (A GPL'd black box now, yes, but still fairly opaque ;) )
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07:13:58 <Razor-X> That I definitely agree with.
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07:22:10 <Razor-X> Forth is even better though. No type checking.
07:23:01 <Razor-X> Want to make a character out of a cell? Forth doesen't care, it'll just use the least significant byte.
07:24:02 <Razor-X> Double precision integers, for example, take up two stack positions and need special words to modify.
07:24:20 <Razor-X> You could, unwarily, use a double precision integer as two normal integers.
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21:53:02 <ihope> Actually, I read from left to right.
21:57:57 <ihope> lol idot its wen u putwords in ur hed
22:01:40 <Asztal> wow... I had an issue with my befunge interpreter going into an infinite loop, and it turns out that someone else's interpreter does the exact same thing
22:02:12 <Asztal> Caused by a # at the edge of a program, but I'm sure it's caused by something far more sinister
22:02:40 <RodgerTheGreat> well, at least it proves you aren't the first one to make that mistake
22:03:13 <Asztal> I think it's a different mistake with the same result, because theirs does it in befunge-93 mode too :)
22:03:17 <RodgerTheGreat> are you sure that #'s at the edge of a program aren't defined by the standard to infinite loop? :)
22:03:26 <Asztal> mine is ... something to do with wrapping
22:21:44 <Razor-X> GregorR: Does D have a good socket library?
22:22:50 <Razor-X> No, not the C FFI. No. No.
22:23:06 <Razor-X> (Uggh. Managing 30 structs gets tiring quickly.)
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22:41:02 <Asztal> I don't know how my cube intersection function ever worked, but it's fixed now
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23:11:42 <GregorR> Razor-X: It has std.socketstream, which (shockingly) treats sockets as streams. Very easy to use.
23:25:01 <xor> this sepperation of functions and variables in common lisp is really getting on my nerves
23:27:58 <xor> no, i don't want to do (funcall x ...), i just want to do (x ...)
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23:34:26 <ihope> Not that I've done much with it.
23:35:01 <xor> i'm reading _ai programming, case studies in lisp_
23:49:20 <SimonRC> Does anoyone know of a language with a for-each type loop that can express zipping? I found the lack of one very irritating in C#.
23:50:00 <xor> haha (gps '(unknown poor) '(rich famous))
23:50:05 <SimonRC> Heh, KoL has a basic test of English grammar and spelling before you are allowed to use the chat feature.
23:51:11 <oerjan> i believe the ghc compiler for haskell has an extension to the list comprehension syntax called parallel, which is essentially zipping.
23:51:30 <xor> zip([1,2],[3,4]) == [[1,3],[2,4]], right?
23:51:53 <oerjan> i.e. [(x,y) | x <- m | y <- l] = zip m l
23:52:28 <SimonRC> I was thinking mostly but not only of languages like Java or C#.
23:52:45 <oerjan> of course haskell also has the zipBy high-level function.
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23:54:37 <oerjan> oh, right. i've made that mistake before.
23:55:01 <oerjan> there are some other "genericized" functions that use the By suffix, i believe.
23:56:21 <SimonRC> They take an argument that specifies equality/comparison criteria.
23:57:09 <oerjan> although you could probably make one in Java.
23:59:42 <SimonRC> You are suggesting that I can *make* a new control structure in Java?