00:12:47 * GreaseMonkey is away: afk food 00:15:25 food! well breakfast time is passed... :S 00:16:26 GreaseMonkey: Away notifications are EVIL 00:16:57 why are they so evil? 00:17:21 Because 00:18:41 GreaseMonkey: because we don't give a shit. 00:18:58 GreaseMonkey: it would make some sense if you were talking to begin with. 00:19:02 GreaseMonkey: but you weren't. 00:35:33 * GreaseMonkey is back (gone 00:22:46) 00:36:03 k, its off now 00:36:33 breakfast time is passed for me too (good night) 00:43:56 http://sobo.ruree.net/tmp/malbolge.txt almost done. chapter 7 discusses general method of programming, just summary of chapter 4, 5, 6. 00:49:33 damn put some newlines in there 00:50:55 and it could use some serious english-ization 00:53:23 bsmntbombdood, i've put some newlines. and my english is not good enough for doing so 00:55:52 well, i'll welcome if someone suggests correction and so on of course... 01:00:15 I'll make some changes 01:00:28 thanks. 01:03:59 not sure what to do with "Several special programming languages are called esoteric programming language; they are designed not like general programming languages, so a program in these languages is hard to write or understand." 01:05:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:05:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Client Quit). 01:08:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:08:40 eh, i mean "some PLs are called esolang; their design criteria is different with general PL -- that is, hard to write or understand the program" maybe 01:09:23 (i've dozed while translating, here is 10:00 am) 01:09:54 * pikhq would like to apologise for the delay in BFM's release. . . 01:10:56 I found the Tcl style guide. . . I'm trying to follow it exactly. 01:10:56 Some programming languages are considered esoteric -- that is, hard to write or understand. 01:12:35 The style guide mandates (shock) documentation and comments. . . 01:14:36 oerjan, at least, should be glad. ;) 01:17:41 ok, tired of this 01:17:54 bsmntbombdood: "this" refers to. . .? 01:17:58 http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/malbolge.txt , english-ized up to line 78 01:18:21 thank you a lot! 01:18:24 huzzah! 01:18:40 Korean? 01:18:52 THink it's japenese 01:19:13 japanese, as translated by a korean into english? 01:19:48 I'm guessing that it's Korean, since if it were Japanese, I ould read at least some of it. ;) 01:19:53 (untranslated, that is) 01:20:10 As it is, it looks like /dev/urandom to me. 01:20:26 japanese translated into korean first (mostly mechanically), and translated into (poor) english by me 01:20:57 Ah. 01:22:22 i have to sleep now... have a nice day (or night, depending on your timezone) :) 01:31:41 * SimonRC goes 01:57:56 Meh. I've translated Chapter 1. 01:58:27 Hopefully it has Englishization, but it's hard to map Japanese tenses to English. 03:05:29 i'm getting off this box, cya 03:05:53 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Connection error 130 (Monkey too greasy)"). 03:11:38 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa"). 03:20:51 how many tenses does japanese have? 03:22:25 {past,present,can't-remember-what-the-te-form/-ing-form-would-be}{plain,formal} 03:25:16 -ing as in present participle? 03:25:24 That'd be it, I believe. 03:25:33 Future tense? Bah, humbug. ;) 03:25:44 although -ing has two different meanings in english 03:29:20 i'm guessing japanese has enough tenses. all languages do. 03:29:28 Where "enough" is like 15. 03:29:48 It just might be using relatively unusual ways of differentiating them 03:30:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:30:41 I count a small handful that I know of. 03:30:42 gerund was the word i was looking for 03:31:09 i assume japanese has some way to express the subjunctive? 03:31:18 Gerund, in Japanese. . . Formal "desu" or "de gozaimasu" (the latter being more formal), plan "da". 03:31:35 Since I can't remember what the subjunctive is, I wouldn't know ATM. ;) 03:32:22 "I wish I were a fish", were is subjunctive 03:33:08 what about conditional? "I would swim" 03:33:08 norwegian just uses ordinary past tense for it, by the way 03:34:55 Russian has a special mood indicator particle 03:34:56 every language can express anything but they differ in what distinctions are mandatory to express 03:35:32 except for that language where there're no numbers :) 03:36:02 you're _probably_ right but who knows 03:36:13 i mean you're in a direct contradiction to sapir-whorf 03:36:54 lament: "tai" ending. . . To be honest, though, the "tai" ending makes the whole verb. . . thing into an adjective. 03:37:42 "Tabemasu." -> "tabetai desu." == "I eat" -> "I want to eat." 03:38:01 oerjan: there's this portuguese word, "Saudade", and you certainly can express it in English, but it requires a whole Wikipedia article to do so... 03:40:08 What's saudade mean? 03:40:20 similarly, russian doesn't have the verb "to be" (well, not really), so "I think therefore I am" is translated as "I think therefore I exist", which is quite a bit less visceral 03:40:34 bsmntbombdood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade 03:41:03 wow 03:41:07 "feeling of longing for something that one is fond of, which is gone, but might return in a distant future. It often carries a fatalist tone and a repressed knowledge that the object of longing might really never return." 03:44:59 That's funny 03:45:12 I wonder if there's any english words that are that complicated 03:45:26 Mu. 03:46:06 mu? 03:46:54 You make the false assumption that there are english words that *aren't* that complicated. 03:47:06 bsmntbombdood: "Saudade" isn't complicated. It's simply saudade. 03:47:10 One short word. 03:47:44 It's not the fault of Portuguese that English requires a long sentence to translate it. 03:47:53 The english translation is complicated 03:48:06 Obviously the English translation of English words is not gonna be complicated. 03:48:10 Being one word long! 03:48:29 bah 03:49:20 bsmntbombdood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untranslatability 03:50:31 "Serendipity" is a very good one 03:50:56 ha...I don't even know what that means 03:53:00 I suppose that would be hard to translate 03:58:11 Tenses in Japanese ignoring honor level: Present, Past, Progressive, Volitional, Impression, Desire, others I can't remember. 03:59:00 Razor-X: Thank you for filling in what I forget. 03:59:03 Some of the tenses (Impression and Desire are some offhand) have multiple versions, and then you have honorific forms and humble forms (and by extension, humble honorific forms). 03:59:21 (And, of course, coarse forms.) 04:00:02 And, of course, there are no future tenses. ;) 04:00:17 Yup. 04:00:50 sounds pretty nice 04:01:17 -!- ShadowHntr has joined. 04:01:26 The language is pretty neat but, the gulf between levels of prose is immense. 04:01:57 What you'll hear spoken is almost nonexistant in, say, a teen novel, and these all pale to what you can find in something like a thesis paper. 04:02:33 that's true of every language. 04:02:43 I'm reading Harry Potter right now in Spanish 04:02:54 it's scary how complicated the language is :) 04:02:59 (to a total newbie like me) 04:03:04 Bah, I take spanish at school 04:03:08 Well, I can read Harry Potter in Japanese, to an extent. 04:03:25 OTOH i have looked at real Spanish writers and their spanish is mindblowing 04:03:30 But the grammar is really easy. Just the vocabulary. 04:04:11 bsmntbombdood: y como? sabes lo bien? 04:04:16 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 04:04:34 aaaagh don't do that to me 04:05:03 ah, chido, no te molestare 04:05:56 Razor-X: spoken language is always way easier than everything else 04:06:05 learn 300 words and you're all set :D 04:07:27 Still, there are some things about Japanese that are annoying. 04:08:17 Most of Japanese has almost *no* compound words, unlike the Romance/Germanic languages. Well, maybe they were compound, but Japanese changed so dramatically during the reforms that it's almost impossible to trace back. 04:09:47 And of course you have the whole Kanji system, which is annoying at a certain level, but beautiful at another. 05:56:17 it's funny how in Chinese, the characters are neither particularly annoying nor particularly beautiful 05:56:22 they're just how people write stuff 05:56:34 and in Japanese, they get this special position 06:08:20 i like the quote brackets they use in japanese. 06:08:20 :) 06:08:37 the corners of a rectangle 06:08:43 upper left and lower right 06:08:46 around a phrase 06:08:51 or title 06:28:47 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 10:34:17 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line."). 13:26:57 -!- jix has joined. 14:25:34 -!- jix_ has joined. 14:33:54 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:55:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:35:32 GregorR: The next release of BFM should be able to run readily in EgoBot. . . 16:35:56 I'm currently working on an interpreter pass. ;) 16:36:33 Also, since BFM can now read in code from stdin. . . You've got your work cut out for you. 16:53:49 -!- wooby has joined. 16:59:03 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 17:01:23 * pikhq should probably get off his ass and finish making the bloody changes to BFM 17:39:47 heh 17:44:07 Pretty much where I'm at involves finishing the interpretation pass, frobbing with the command line parser a bit, and tarring it up. 17:48:33 -!- fizzie2 has changed nick to fizzie. 18:04:48 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:14:37 -!- jix has joined. 18:34:02 -!- The_8472 has joined. 18:34:06 'Lo. 18:34:21 welcome 18:38:33 -!- tgwizard has joined. 19:16:17 * pikhq notes that the Esolang contest *still* isn't done. 20:17:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:17:25 'Lo. 20:17:44 Hi 20:19:55 Of ''course'' the esolang contest still isn't done. It is a long standing tradition that those contests never get judged :) 20:22:20 -!- wooby has quit. 20:35:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:50:11 -!- ivan` has joined. 22:15:13 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 22:31:13 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 22:31:41 Brainf*** question: is decrementing 0 supposed to stay at 0 or not? 22:31:54 Depends on the implementation. 22:32:06 Most will wrap to 255 (or their bitwidth), some will crash, some will stay 0. 22:32:14 Some even support proper negative numbers. 22:32:30 The original implementation would wrap to 255. 22:32:58 okay 22:33:38 Gregor, ever written anything in BF? 22:34:18 Heheheh 22:34:32 Yes, yes I have. 22:35:15 * Rugxulo has only written three things, and they ain't too fancy/interesting :P 22:37:08 (1). counts from 9 to 1, (2). counts from 0 to 9, (3). accepts a single byte input and outputs 'five' if it was '5' (simple stuff, obviously, not that impressive) 22:37:44 oops, I meant "counts down and prints the numbers w/ a space b/w 'em" (yeah, not that cool) 22:38:23 Well, in a language like BF, it's pretty crucial that you get the simple stuff down pat. 22:39:12 ;) 22:41:15 -!- Rugxulo has quit ("Clap on! , Clap off! clap@#&$NO CARRIER"). 22:43:03 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 22:51:44 -!- Jay_Walker has joined. 22:51:49 -!- Jay_Walker has left (?). 22:52:31 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 22:59:59 -!- ShadowHntr has joined. 23:04:57 -!- pgimeno has quit ("You're lucky as you can read this message but I can't"). 23:20:54 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:37:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:58:04 -!- CakeProphet has joined.