< 1172793853 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1172797210 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172797214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| < 1172797235 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ < 1172797256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ < 1172797350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm left with /, then. < 1172797430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1172797524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1172797585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁝ < 1172797590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1172797604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, Unicode < 1172797652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope my character was a correct U+205D TRICOLON (also called "Epidaurean acrophonic symbol three"); it looks correct elsewhere but not in this terminal. :/ < 1172797724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid even on second attempt I just got the usual square... < 1172797986 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1172798097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1172799634 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to simplify things like ``SKx < 1172799663 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exstentionaly < 1172799739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's simple in lambda calculus, but i don't know about SKI. < 1172799796 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1172800401 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i've got it to do one variable to I and K < 1172800458 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``SKx ==> I < 1172800487 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``S`Kx`Ky ==> `K`xy < 1172800739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course ``S`KxI = x < 1172800862 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1172801037 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do ``S`KKI = K yet < 1172801121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1172801141 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible, but the algorithm doesn't < 1172801151 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah, there < 1172801323 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1172801338 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for multiple variables.... < 1172801345 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... this is interesting... < 1172801381 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally created an algorithm that produces (I think) a circle or maybe an ellipsis (I could only see half of it because the turtle window wasn't big enough) < 1172801401 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pastebin it so someone can explain the math behind it. < 1172801426 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1172801512 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/3839 < 1172801525 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is messing around with fractals, thue, and turtles :)
< 1172801689 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are some multiple argument extensional simplifications? < 1172801735 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....uh, what? < 1172801742 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't understand your lingo.
< 1172801771 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``SKK is extensionaly equal to I < 1172801783 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ```SKKx = x < 1172801786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may be simpler to convert to lambda calculus, eta-reduce, then convert back. < 1172801821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand eta reduction < 1172801844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x.fx = f where f does not contain x < 1172801879 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1172801900 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean Kf < 1172801913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some beta-reductions too, i guess. < 1172801917 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... any clue why the numbers behave in such a way to create a circle(like) shape? < 1172801926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1172801988 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a SKI interpreter shouldn't need a lambda calculus interpreter < 1172801990 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... changing the right() method call to left() simply makes a smaller circle... weird < 1172802018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see. < 1172802038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only changing parameter is dist. < 1172802052 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just flips back and forth from what I can tell. < 1172802060 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to True and False for that condition. < 1172802083 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION breadcrumbs to find out for sure.
< 1172802084 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it does ``S`KxI now < 1172802126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i understand. < 1172802129 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup... it just goes back and forth betwen true and false. < 1172802176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially dict just fluctuates in some interval. < 1172802218 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just... minute enough to... draw a circlish thing? < 1172802258 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looks almost like a perfect circle to me... although it could be oblongated mathematically. < 1172802294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_anything_ that goes through a lot of identical small turtle movements must create a circle. < 1172802330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each cycle will move by the same amount, then turn the same amount. < 1172802339 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``S``S`KSK`KI < 1172802346 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is equal to I < 1172802380 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... yeah that makes sense. < 1172802398 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn... I thought I might have found some weird mathematical pattern. < 1172802430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas < 1172802431 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 8, 3, and 5 (the only numbers I used other than phi) are all heavily related with phi. < 1172802448 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I picked them mainly because they're a few of my favorite numbers. < 1172802477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe any change in the constants which doesn't cause dist to diverge will still produce a circle. < 1172802531 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until then I just got freaky scribble patterns... for an unrelated alg using a bunch of randomly pieced together computations. < 1172802551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might change dist by functions that don't match quite as well as *= prod and /= prod < 1172802591 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**= and /= maybe :) < 1172802596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dist could change in a more complicated pattern. < 1172802640 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.. < 1172802669 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing it to exponentiation makes the circle spin in a very tight spiral to the right... like the original except veering to the right very slightly each loop. < 1172802697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1172802710 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a cyclic interval though... the distance is simply being gradually altered. < 1172802755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that must be roundoff errors in the Turtle graphics. It they were perfect you couldn't go in a particular direction. < 1172802763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*If < 1172802781 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be floating point? < 1172802787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1172802796 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION uses Python's decimal format thing.
< 1172802801 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to see. < 1172802808 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1172803000 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... switching to decimal representation made exponentiation no longer work with phi as the exponent. < 1172803093 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimal.InvalidOperation: x ** (non-integer) < 1172803208 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessss it works now < 1172803255 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``S``S`KSK`KI ==> I < 1172803340 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah... using Decimal just makes the floating point math done in the turtle module screw up. < 1172803340 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1172803421 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's noticably slower now though < 1172803477 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`x`x`x`x`x`xx takes like 1.5 seconds < 1172803484 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... is decimal arithmetic considerably slower than good ol' floating point? < 1172803544 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION disappears
< 1172804909 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking for Sophia I could automatically convert between floating point, long intergers, short integers, and decimally-represented numbers without having to worry about it. < 1172804961 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...as long as there's a way to predict which floating point operations won't be accurate... you could convert to decimal format for the operations. < 1172805010 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...huh? < 1172805101 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimal format... instead of binary floating point. < 1172805124 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically mimics "schoolhouse" algorithms for doing math... so it's more accurate but takes more time < 1172805145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimal format is not that much better. < 1172805180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to round off eventually, in any case. < 1172805311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding more bits increases accuracy just as much as adding more decimals. < 1172805337 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationals for the win < 1172805343 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly used in nitpicky computations... like finance and science... < 1172805353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but even they only work for arithmetic < 1172805363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just finance, i think. < 1172805374 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... mostly finance. < 1172805389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not really because decimals are more accurate. < 1172805399 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more... precise? or something like that? < 1172805421 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because .1 has to be 1/10 < 1172805442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because financial calculations are strictly defined by old traditions from before there were binary computers. < 1172805480 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this simplifier is sloow now < 1172805545 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah.... legal standardization more so than any gains in accuracy. < 1172805570 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``````````aaaaaaaaaaa takes like 5 minutes to return < 1172805584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more simplifications you try to catch the closer you get to having to solve the halting problem :) < 1172805594 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1172805615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that does sound like maybe you need a better algorithm < 1172805622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you have bugs. < 1172805627 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1172805634 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading up on number representations.
< 1172805643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, repeating work bugs < 1172805670 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there is one < 1172805830 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/377911 < 1172806805 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1172808248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1172810765 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1172810841 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@cpe-76-185-186-143.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1172811094 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1172811543 0 :Arrogant!i=Arrogatn@42.orlando-06-08rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172816325 0 :anonfunc!n=dholman@ppp-67-121-238-228.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172816345 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172816346 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1172820754 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1172820792 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172820895 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1172822399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1172822400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1172822489 0 :Sukoshi`!n=user@user-11fa9mp.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1172822682 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sukoshi`` < 1172822687 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sukoshi < 1172822928 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1172827220 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bleh. Go time." < 1172827284 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-14-30.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172830698 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1172831236 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172833191 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1172841663 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1172841663 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1172842248 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-13-179.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172842584 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1172842627 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1172843428 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1172843431 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172843994 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 < 1172844670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1172845740 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 < 1172845744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1172846391 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1172848634 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1172848646 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172849836 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1172849881 0 :goban!n=whyso@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1172850264 0 :UpTheDownstair!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1172850356 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1172850396 0 :UpTheDownstair!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1172854400 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1172854430 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1172861612 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1172861612 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1172863092 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1172864272 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172867345 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1172869232 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-185-222.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1172869773 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1172872187 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172875146 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1172876076 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1172876418 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a runtime ELF loader 8-D < 1172876435 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It segfaults mysteriously >_> ... but only after the program has finished. < 1172876641 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1172876911 0 :kxspxr!n=kxspxr@x1-6-00-0c-41-39-32-8e.k302.webspeed.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1172878326 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-70-81.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1172878458 0 :kxspxr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1172878774 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1172878848 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :