00:05:53 <oklopol> made my board game ai into an irc bot
00:05:54 <oklopol> [01:02:13] <sujomilo> Human 48 - computer 2644
00:05:59 <oklopol> :P
00:09:58 <oklopol> i lasted for like 10 rounds though!
00:23:59 <lament> what board game?
00:30:51 <oklopol> sujomilo... my own
00:31:01 <lament> sounds esperantoish
00:31:04 <graue> bsmntbombdood: research to support the thesis that you can't concentrate on reading books after taking that test
00:31:19 <bsmntbombdood> graue: oh, that's just my own experience
00:32:10 <oklopol> it doesn't mean anything though
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02:11:49 <Caphi> Will someone please say a random number between 1 and 20, inclusive?
02:12:23 <oerjan> 14
02:12:29 <Caphi> Thank you.
02:12:55 <oerjan> You're welcome.
02:13:02 <Caphi> \[\]=a
02:13:07 <Caphi> 0
02:13:22 <Caphi> Sorry. Someone else tried to take my computer.
02:17:07 <bsmntbombdood> 56`1
02:20:58 <RodgerTheGreat> oerjan: 17 has been proven to be more random than 14
02:21:01 <RodgerTheGreat> :D
02:22:10 <oerjan> Hey, you think I'll give away my best random number for free?
02:23:25 <Caphi> I like the number 17.
02:23:48 <oerjan> 14 is a good random number.  Half perfect, in fact.
02:24:49 <Caphi> Quite so.
02:25:05 <bsmntbombdood> man
02:25:15 <bsmntbombdood> prefix application makes parsing so easy
02:25:21 <bsmntbombdood> (unlambda style)
02:25:26 <Caphi> I just realized, I didn't actually specify an integer.
02:26:07 <Caphi> Or indeed a rational number.
02:26:35 <bsmntbombdood> e^pi - pi
02:27:10 <oerjan> OK, try e*sqrt 2 - pi/omega
02:27:33 <oerjan> just to be completely surreal
02:27:47 <Caphi> Omega? I'm not familiar with that constant.
02:28:14 <oerjan> probably because it isn't a real number.
02:28:58 <bsmntbombdood> BB(144)
02:29:03 <Caphi> By which you mean that it's complex or that it's undefined?
02:29:10 <oerjan> it is perfectly well ordered though.
02:29:18 <oerjan> nope :)
02:29:30 <Caphi> So it's complex?
02:29:34 <oerjan> nope
02:29:49 <oerjan> it's surreal
02:29:54 <bsmntbombdood> defined, but uncomputable
02:30:19 <oerjan> oh that too. omega means too many different things.
02:30:25 <Caphi> Oo. I learned stuff today.
02:30:36 <oerjan> although the uncomputable number is still real
02:30:48 <Caphi> Out of curiosity
02:30:54 <Caphi> What's the definition for it
02:31:37 <oerjan> i can never remember the correct notation for surreals.
02:32:03 <oerjan> but something like (0,1,2,... | )
02:32:21 <oerjan> the simplest infinite surreal.
02:32:35 <RodgerTheGreat> Caphi: for what purpose do you request this number?
02:32:42 <Caphi> Just curious.
02:33:01 <RodgerTheGreat> so am I, that's my point. :)
02:33:11 <Caphi> No other reason. Oerjan mentioned it.
02:33:25 <oerjan> on the other hand, omega comes from the ordinal numbers as well.
02:33:53 <oerjan> the ordinal numbers can be considered a subset of the surreals.
02:34:33 <oerjan> those with empty right parts, i believe
02:49:35 <bsmntbombdood> hmm, that's interesting
02:50:09 <bsmntbombdood> my combinator iterpreter fails to simplify ``S``S`KS``S`KK``S`KS``S``S`KS``S`KKI`KI`K``S``S`KS``S`KKI`KI
02:50:36 <bsmntbombdood> (extensionally equal to S)
02:52:15 <bsmntbombdood> I'm writing an abstraction eliminator
02:54:22 <bsmntbombdood> oh man
02:54:25 <bsmntbombdood> ``S``S`KS``S`KK``S`KS``S`K`S`KS``S`K`S`KK``S``S`KS``S`KKI`KI`K``S``S`KS``S`K`S`KS``S`K`S`KK``S``S`KS``S`KKI`KI`K`KI
02:54:39 <bsmntbombdood> church numeral addition
02:56:01 <bsmntbombdood> my simplifier completely fails to do anything with that, even though there are obvious simplifications
02:57:32 <oerjan> that ``S`KKI inside is pretty severe.
03:00:04 <oerjan> ``S`KxI -> x is the most trivial case of eta reduction.
03:01:06 <bsmntbombdood> yeah :/
03:02:28 <bsmntbombdood> wonder why it doesn't reduce it
03:02:52 <bsmntbombdood> oh
03:03:30 <bsmntbombdood> When reducing extensionally, it only works with the whole expression
03:06:18 <bsmntbombdood> ahh, now it at least does something
03:06:36 <bsmntbombdood> and ``S``S`KS``S`KK``S`KS``S``S`KS``S`KKI`KI`K``S``S`KS``S`KKI`KI is reduced to S
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03:24:04 <bsmntbombdood> dummy variables are annoying
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04:27:57 <RodgerTheGreat> good night, guys
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07:44:53 <Caphi> Will someone please produce two random numbers between 1 and 10, inclusive, and tell me their sum?
07:46:48 <Caphi> Never mind. I was trying to demonstrate to someone, but that person left.
07:47:36 <tokigun> 18.
07:59:52 <oklopol> Request noted. Minding disabled.
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16:03:41 <nooga> y0
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16:13:13 <nooga> SADOL.com wtf?!?!?!?
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16:38:47 <RodgerTheGreat> hi everybody
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23:20:08 <bsmntbombdood> ooh fun
23:20:20 <bsmntbombdood> the max shifts function solves the halting problem
23:30:01 <RodgerTheGreat> wha?
23:32:23 <bsmntbombdood> The value of the max shifts function is uncomputable
23:33:33 <bsmntbombdood> But given the value of S(n), you can solve the halting problem on an n state turing machine
23:35:16 <oerjan> This gave me an idea which I don't know if I've seen the answer to:
23:35:19 <RodgerTheGreat> ah, I see
23:35:41 <bsmntbombdood> hmm
23:35:41 <oerjan> Are there uncomputable problems strictly weaker than the halting problem?
23:35:58 <lament> sounds unlikely
23:36:02 <bsmntbombdood> S(4) on a 2 symbol machine is known
23:36:26 <bsmntbombdood> so on a 4 state, 2 symbol turing machines, the halting problem is solvable
23:38:03 <oerjan> it is analogous to how there are, if P!=NP, problems strictly between them.
23:39:18 <oerjan> (that is, problems which are neither in P nor NP-complete)
23:39:31 <lament> what's strictly weaker anyway
23:39:59 <RodgerTheGreat> is it trivial to map one type of turing machine to another via any well-understood algorithm?
23:40:00 <lament> is the problem of sorting apples strictly weaker than the problem of sorting oranges?
23:40:02 <oerjan> say you have a problem which you can solve if you have a halting oracle, but not vice versa
23:40:50 <oerjan> I mean by "strictly weaker" that you have a reduction one way but not the other.
23:41:19 <lament> oerjan: is the problem of deciding the halting of a program equipped with a halting oracle strictly stronger than just the regular halting problem?
23:41:33 <oerjan> yes.
23:41:41 <RodgerTheGreat> one would assume so
23:42:07 <oerjan> in fact that is the premise of one of the languages on the wiki.
23:43:08 <oerjan> actually two: Banana Scheme and Brainhype.
23:43:16 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
23:43:21 <RodgerTheGreat> interesting
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23:44:58 <lament> brainhype doesn't really care
23:45:20 <oerjan> but going downward in strength (while still being uncomputable) seems harder.
23:45:45 <lament> (banana scheme mostly appeared exactly because it was unclear what could interpret brainhype)
23:56:18 <lament> hm, this /// lang seems cool
23:56:30 <lament> i totally missed it