←2007-03-27 2007-03-28 2007-03-29→ ↑2007 ↑all
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01:52:28 <Figs> http://theory.stanford.edu/~vganesh/STPdocumentation.html
01:52:34 <Figs> seems like the kind of thing you guys would enjoy
01:57:02 <Figs> rofl
01:57:02 <Figs> http://www.netscrap.com/netscrap_detail.cfm?scrap_id=85
02:05:32 <oklopol> rararar
02:05:49 <oklopol> 4 hours till exam \o/
02:09:10 <Figs> ahhh... you can have a lot of fun putting a Brit and an American together :P
02:09:56 <oklopol> or by sleeping
02:10:00 <oklopol> that's pretty fun :<
02:10:53 <Figs> :P
02:10:56 <Figs> 'pissed'
02:10:58 <Figs> for example
02:11:03 <Figs> means two very different things
02:11:06 <Figs> ;)
02:11:11 <Figs> drunk vs angry, I guess
02:12:11 <oklopol> mm
02:12:19 <oklopol> or the past tense of peeing
02:13:39 <Figs> :P
02:15:28 <oklopol> i wish i'd wake up to alarm clocks... i could sleep :<
02:16:09 <Figs> ... O.o
02:16:20 <Figs> why don't you go to bed Oklopol?
02:16:24 <Figs> you're always up :P
02:16:41 <oklopol> i slept 8-14
02:17:01 <oklopol> and... the whole monday
02:17:30 <oklopol> if i go to bed i'll never wake up early enough
02:17:40 <oklopol> and there is no other place to sleep here
02:17:50 <oklopol> my floor is full of bottles and books
02:18:55 <Figs> o.o
02:21:52 <oklopol> well, this armchair of course, but it's too cosy once again
02:22:05 <oklopol> maybe i'll sleep on the bus :|
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02:51:28 <Figs> http://www.shof.msrcsites.co.uk/sins.jpg
02:51:32 <Figs> yep
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03:03:49 <pikhq> 'Lo.
03:03:57 <Figs> hi.
03:03:59 <Figs> mid.
03:04:01 <Figs> :D
03:04:12 <pikhq> :)
03:06:11 <xor> hi pikhq
03:06:53 <pikhq> Hey.
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03:14:23 <Figs> http://www.eldtrain.com.au/members/humour/humour11.htm
03:16:51 <xor> heh
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03:51:42 <calamari> hi
03:52:07 <calamari> so this is what it looks like to irc from gaim
03:52:21 <RodgerTheGreat> haha
03:52:30 <calamari> /ctcp calamari version
03:52:33 <calamari> hmm
03:52:43 <calamari> guess that's not implemented
03:53:25 <calamari> does it give a ctcp version response for me?
03:53:55 <RodgerTheGreat> yup.
03:53:57 <RodgerTheGreat> Gaim IRC
03:54:21 <calamari> that's it? how lame.. hehe
03:58:03 <xor> gaim is laim
03:59:11 <pikhq> Yeah.
04:02:23 <Figs> ...
04:02:25 <Figs> @.@
04:02:27 <Figs> AHHHH
04:02:29 <Figs> brainfuck
04:02:35 <Figs> and not the language
04:02:59 <calamari> sounds dangerous
04:03:06 <pikhq> Indeed.
04:03:08 * pikhq leaveth
04:03:23 <Figs> no
04:03:29 <Figs> more painful
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04:03:32 <calamari> cya pikhq
04:03:33 <Figs> my brain is saying
04:03:38 <Figs> "You idiot, what are you doing!"
04:04:07 * calamari looks up brain surgery on wikipedia
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04:07:18 <Figs> firefox's toolbar customization sucks
04:07:48 <Figs> hello Sgeo
04:07:54 <Sgeo> Hi Figs
04:11:59 <Figs> bah
04:12:13 <Figs> we can't we get a good browser?
04:12:16 <Figs> IE sucks
04:12:19 <Figs> Firefox is annoying...
04:22:32 <Figs> http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger2/3718/3950/320/503462/card469.jpg
04:22:34 <Figs> :D
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05:16:55 <Figs> have you guys played this?
05:16:55 <Figs> http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/03/de-activate-bomb-in-15-minutes.html
05:21:24 <Figs> giong to bed
05:21:26 -!- Figs has left (?).
05:38:07 <RodgerTheGreat> I solved it first try!
05:38:22 <RodgerTheGreat> granted, with a mere 2:41 to go...
05:47:47 <xor> ?
05:48:07 <RodgerTheGreat> the third and fourth puzzles are really easy with a good knowledge of binary and a calculator, though
05:48:16 <RodgerTheGreat> the flash game figs linked to
05:48:28 <xor> haha flash
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06:08:19 <RodgerTheGreat> 'night, guys
06:08:35 <xor> gute nacht
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13:30:28 <RodgerTheGreat> hi everybody
14:27:13 <SimonRC> "Dear agony aunt. My results for various modules this year at university are very poor. I got 4%, 8%, 15%, 16%, 23%, and 42%. What is going on? Yours, Lost."
14:27:16 <SimonRC> hehehehe
14:27:34 <RodgerTheGreat> ?
14:29:22 <RodgerTheGreat> RUN
14:30:10 * SimonRC uses continuation-passing style:
14:30:55 <SimonRC> IRP:REQUEST(GOOGLE):TELL_RODGER_ABOUT:("4 8 15 16 23 42").
14:50:20 <RodgerTheGreat> the only thing I watch on TV is "Mythbusters"
14:52:52 <SimonRC> you should watch SG-1
14:55:05 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, good lord
14:55:16 <RodgerTheGreat> I've seen it before, and it was terrible
14:55:32 <RodgerTheGreat> it pisses on everything good about the original movie
15:03:31 <SimonRC> hmm
15:03:37 <SimonRC> Depends which one you saw.
15:03:42 <SimonRC> Some are a bit crap.
15:04:06 <SimonRC> And several seasons turned into big heaps of galactic politics.
15:04:56 <SimonRC> BTW, just a little thing I'd like you to spread around...
15:05:17 <SimonRC> http://conworlds.info/cwbb/index.php
15:05:48 <SimonRC> It is a worldbuilding forum that I belong to that are trying to get some publicity.
15:08:54 -!- crathman has joined.
15:58:52 <SimonRC> crathman: hi
15:59:25 <RodgerTheGreat> hey, crathman
16:00:39 <crathman> howdy
16:00:51 * SimonRC plugs it again
16:01:04 <SimonRC> http://conworlds.info/cwbb/index.php
16:01:11 <SimonRC> it's a worldbuilding forum I'm on
16:01:20 <SimonRC> It neds more publicity, so spread it around
16:01:26 <SimonRC> if you care
16:10:15 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:11:12 <ais523> Could someone explain Continuation Passing Style to me?
16:11:49 <SimonRC> continuation passign style is where you don't return the value to the caller, but instead you are given another function to pass that value to.
16:12:13 <SimonRC> the latter is the "continuation"
16:12:44 <ais523> I understand what a continuation is, so the explanation helped quite a bit
16:13:01 <ais523> and the point is that call/cc combined with CPS just gives you a regular return value...
16:13:59 <SimonRC> yup
16:14:32 <SimonRC> cps is good for avoiding mutation wen doing stuff
16:14:43 <SimonRC> e.g. when appending to long lists.
16:15:29 <SimonRC> you don't pass a list around, but a function that prepends that list to another.
16:15:34 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:15:43 <SimonRC> that's kinda like CPS
16:16:38 * SimonRC plugs a website again: http://conworlds.info/cwbb/index.php It's a worldbuilding forum I'm on. It needs more publicity, so spread it around.
16:16:43 <SimonRC> :-S
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16:20:01 <SimonRC> argle
16:20:23 <SimonRC> every time I plug it, someone else comes on who I haven;t told yet
16:21:35 <jix__> hm?
16:21:37 <ais523> I suspect many people here read the logs anyway
16:22:06 <ais523> SimonRC was plugging a website, and got annoyed that jix__ joined just after the plug rather than just before
16:22:16 <jix__> i was there before
16:22:23 <jix__> i am jix
16:22:30 <jix__> i just had a reconnect
16:22:33 <jix__> and i got the plug
16:23:02 <ais523> clients probably need to show duplicate names only once, as it would help to avoid this sort of problem
16:27:34 <SimonRC> indeed
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18:17:39 <Figs> hey
18:17:42 <Figs> opinions?
18:17:46 <ais523> on what?
18:17:49 <Figs> Tree = a < ((b<(d<i+j+k))+e);
18:17:51 <lament> I think you smell bad.
18:18:00 <Figs> that is working C++ coe
18:18:01 <Figs> *code
18:18:22 <lament> that is working code in very many languages.
18:18:25 <ais523> it's working C code too, probably with a different meaning
18:18:32 <ais523> and it's definitely working code in HOMESPRING
18:18:40 <lament> i would guess it's working code in the majority of languages
18:19:04 <lament> (with minor modifications like changing = to something else that means 'equals', or removing the semicolon)
18:19:07 <ais523> no, in BF it goes off the left-hand end of the tape
18:19:22 <Figs> the next statement is
18:19:26 <lament> okay, maybe not the majority.
18:19:26 <Figs> print(Tree);
18:19:36 <Figs> which causes the following to be printed on the screen:
18:19:50 <Figs> a(b(d(i,j,k),e),c(f,g,h))
18:20:20 <Figs> O_o
18:20:33 <Figs> sorry, didn't copy the whole definition earlier
18:20:34 <Figs> Tree = a < (((b<(d<i+j+k))+e)+(c<f+g+h));
18:20:37 <Figs> there you go
18:21:02 <ais523> why < and + not < and > ?
18:21:19 <Figs> because the branch is <
18:21:43 <ais523> you should have redefined the whole nature of trees just so you could get away with using < and >
18:21:54 <Figs> I thought about it
18:22:09 <Figs> but I actually want this system to be useful
18:22:19 <Figs> ;)
18:22:21 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:22:26 <Figs> it's already pretty hard to understand
18:22:30 <Figs> Hi oerjan
18:22:40 <Figs> Tree = a < (((b<(d<i+j+k))+e)+(c<f+g+h)); //Working C++ :D
18:22:44 <lament> are a,b,c, etc, existing variables, or does the system just convert them to strings?
18:22:47 <Figs> output: a(b(d(i,j,k),e),c(f,g,h))
18:22:53 <Figs> existing vars
18:22:57 <oerjan> hi all
18:23:18 * ais523 is busy trying to implement CLC-INTERCAL features in C-INTERCAL
18:23:26 <lament> Figs: not sure what do you mean by "useful" :)
18:23:40 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/dbzV1598.html
18:23:51 <Figs> like, to be used in an actual project ;)
18:24:54 <ais523> I'll probably end up writing a project in an esolang some day
18:25:10 <ais523> I've already ended up hardcoding bits of programs in assembler to work round compiler bugs
18:25:19 <Figs> :p
18:25:37 <ais523> and assembler's halfway to being an esolang
18:25:44 <Figs> ;)
18:25:44 <lament> Figs: not sure what kind of "actual project" needs hardcoded definition of trees.
18:26:09 <Figs> lament: These aren't exactly, "hard" coded ;)
18:26:22 <Figs> think about it like this:
18:26:25 <ais523> a b d i j k e c f g h
18:26:30 <Figs> I have a program that reads a file
18:26:35 <ais523> (the tree you wrote above in HOMESPRING notation)
18:26:43 <Figs> tokenizing as it goes
18:26:46 <ais523> easier to understand and faster to write, isn't it?
18:26:58 <Figs> and interprets the tokens and reassembles a sequence (tree structure) by parsing it
18:27:00 <lament> ais523: .........yeah
18:27:04 <Figs> which I can then operate on
18:27:18 <Figs> to dynamically add and remove rules from the parser :D!
18:28:52 <Figs> O_o
18:28:53 <Figs> eep
18:29:07 * Figs can think of some weird uses for tree-manip. functions
18:29:34 <Figs> functions that clone trees and graft the clones on as new branches...
18:31:28 <Figs> in 5 lines of code, it works!
18:31:29 <Figs> :D
18:31:41 <ais523> some languages are better for trees than others
18:31:54 <ais523> the tree is the easiest data structure to understand in both Unlambda and Underload
18:31:57 <ais523> (for much the same reasons)
18:32:18 <Figs> I think the tree is most certainly one of the harder to understand ds's when you try to use it in C++
18:32:39 <lament> really?
18:32:51 <Figs> that's my opinion on it, at least :P
18:33:26 <lament> a tree is almost the same as a linked list
18:33:27 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/s9qVJt20.html
18:35:13 * oerjan is reading the logs, and doesn't understand why Figs said bruteforcing the 4444 problem by setting up trees is hard. Figs must not know Haskell. :)
18:35:26 <Figs> I don't know Haskell :P
18:35:34 <Figs> We have logs?
18:35:41 <ais523> look at the topic
18:35:57 <xor> What is the bot that logs?
18:36:00 <Figs> huh
18:36:04 <Figs> I missed that somehow
18:36:04 <Figs> :P
18:36:07 <ais523> the tunes log (http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/) loads faster
18:36:10 <ais523> xor: clog and cmeme
18:36:46 <lament> the tunes project did one useful thing, so far.
18:36:50 <lament> logging bots.
18:37:19 <oerjan> heh :)
18:37:49 <lament> (well no, their list of resources for learning CS was pretty awesome)
18:38:51 <lament> although it seems they have removed that
18:39:09 <Figs> I think I talked to much on 07.03.26
18:39:11 <Figs> :P
18:39:13 <Figs> the log is bigger
18:39:15 <oerjan> i really would like to see a completely theorem-proven operating system. It should do wonders for security.
18:39:45 <xor> I never understood these "proven correct" programs
18:39:51 <lament> oerjan: just wait 50 years for tunes to come out.
18:39:53 <ais523> I would like to see a programming language in which writing a completely theorem-proven operating system would be reasonable
18:41:23 <oerjan> I don't think it will take 50 years. I think it will be less than 10 years until we have such a programming language.
18:41:54 <lament> oerjan: i thought we already did?
18:42:01 <lament> oh
18:42:03 <lament> "reasonable"
18:42:06 <Figs> :P
18:42:08 <oerjan> Well if you are a genius you do :)
18:42:18 <Figs> what language? :P
18:42:19 <lament> oerjan: frankly i don't believe it will ever happen
18:42:40 <Figs> and I don't know what you mean by theorem-proven
18:43:19 <lament> oerjan: because 1) it's still run by humans, so worms etc will still be a problem, so security gains are almost non-existent 2) it's too much effort for too little benefit
18:43:23 <oerjan> Any of the new dependently typed languages should be usable if you are smart enough. If your name is Oleg Kiselyov it is rumored even Haskell may do :)
18:44:12 <oerjan> Of course the programming language is just one step.
18:44:41 <oerjan> Actually defining what it means to be secure is just as important, in order to avoid worms and the like.
18:45:21 <lament> anything run by humans cannot be secure by their own definition.
18:45:42 <Figs> Machine take-over!
18:45:47 <Figs> :P
18:45:51 <oerjan> I don't understand why you say that.
18:45:54 <Figs> Yes. You cannot browse the web.
18:46:00 <ais523> lament: Unnecessary is completely secure
18:46:04 <Figs> I will read your mind, and browse for you.
18:46:04 <ais523> just not particularly useful
18:46:46 <lament> oerjan: well, look at the current generation of worms; for the most part, they don't breach security in any technical sense
18:46:55 <oerjan> Of course you can browse the web if your web browser is proven secure.
18:47:13 <lament> oerjan: the user freely and (technically) knowingly permits the malware to run.
18:47:48 <lament> oerjan: that's the way it's always gonna be.
18:47:53 <oerjan> No.
18:48:04 <lament> oerjan: the alternative is a horribly bureaucratic OS that nobody would want to use.
18:48:16 <Figs> Windows XP w/ access controls!
18:48:20 <lament> for example.
18:48:21 <Figs> (yes, they are there)
18:48:39 <lament> but that's different, because XP still has actual technical security issues
18:48:50 <lament> our hypothetical OS wouldn't, but worms would be there just the same.
18:49:05 <oerjan> I don't agree with you.
18:49:31 <lament> You get an executable in an email. You run the executable. Bad things happen. No amount on "proof" can prevent this situation.
18:49:50 <oerjan> The point would be to make the operating system so flexible that nearly everything you need to run _can_ contain a proof of its own security.
18:50:04 <ais523> Alternative: you get an executable in an email. No matter how useful it might be, your OS won't let you run it.
18:50:28 <ais523> 'Security through inability'
18:50:44 <lament> Your password is "sex". Bad things happen. No amount of "proof" can prevent this.
18:51:01 <oerjan> Compromise: You _can_ make an exception, but it would be _so_ rare that no one would do it for something that came through email.
18:51:45 <lament> the problem is
18:51:49 <Figs> holy crap
18:51:50 <Figs> http://www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html
18:52:03 <lament> it is not in any way bad to receive executables, so the OS should allow you to do that.
18:52:19 <lament> It is not in any way bad to let user to run their executables, so the OS should allow you to do that.
18:52:35 <lament> It is not in any way bad for an executable to DOS microsoft.com, so the OS should allow the executable to do that.
18:52:57 <lament> unless you can somehow prove that the latter is bad.
18:53:16 <lament> the worm code _will_ be proven "secure"
18:53:25 <lament> so you will have no problems running it
18:53:31 <lament> but it will still do Bad Stuff
18:53:39 <oerjan> Interesting.
18:53:54 <lament> it will not be able to get root or something like that.
18:53:57 <Figs> you have to but Godlike 2.6 on the computer that analyzes all running code, and grinds your computer to a near halt
18:54:00 <Figs> *put
18:54:07 <oerjan> It's the same as browsers being allowed to open annoyingly many windows, essentially.
18:54:13 <lament> sure.
18:54:14 <Figs> but makes sure your computer has morals.
18:54:38 <Figs> ("OMG, you're looking at pr0n? No more Internet Explorer for you!")
18:54:42 <Figs> :P
18:55:01 <Figs> Begs the question... if my computer will be forced to have morals... whose morals?
18:55:08 <lament> oerjan: despite the lack of theorem-proved systems, there has already been a huge switch from actually exploting holes to exploiting naive users
18:55:32 <lament> oerjan: back when people used DOS, there were plenty of actual viruses that actually infected programs and then took over the system.
18:55:44 <lament> these days, it's mostly worms that get the attention
18:56:06 <ais523> these days, I suspect the average computer user is less intelligent
18:56:21 <ais523> as evidenced by the 'How to open the box the OS comes in' in Windows Vista's FAQ
18:56:25 <lament> well, you can't theorem-prove your users, which is my point :)
18:56:28 <Figs> o.o
18:56:39 <Figs> I just thought of an awful malware program ;)
18:56:58 <Figs> but it's been done years ago ;P
18:58:40 <oerjan> Hm... DOS attacks are somewhat difficult because they don't use excessively many resources on the computer where they are running, unlike annoying browser windows.
18:59:14 <lament> even annoying browser windows can't exactly be proven to be annoying
18:59:15 <oerjan> So good resource management policy would be insufficient.
18:59:36 <Figs> the simplest way (and I use it to secure most people's win32)
18:59:45 <oerjan> No but popup managers can do a good job.
18:59:47 <Figs> is to block registry
19:00:01 <lament> oerjan: sure, but that has nothing to do with proof-based security.
19:00:02 <Figs> and manually allow/deny each change
19:01:26 <oerjan> hm...
19:02:28 <oerjan> proof-based security will always have to prove against a policy.
19:02:58 <Figs> I thought I said that already? :(
19:03:17 <oerjan> maybe you did
19:03:32 <Figs> [07:53:02] Figs: Begs the question... if my computer will be forced to have morals... whose morals?
19:04:01 <Figs> DOS attack may be desired by the user
19:04:04 <oerjan> a better advantage may be that once the proof has gone through, you can drop all checks that have been proved unnecessary.
19:05:16 <oerjan> so in a sense proof-carrying code is just a way to optimize away runtime checks.
19:07:36 <oerjan> of course the user should in principle be able to set the policy.
19:07:54 <ais523> that might be vunerable to social engineering methods
19:08:27 <Figs> http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Checking_Your_Digits.aspx
19:08:47 <oerjan> perhaps. the policy changer should at least have reasonable warnings.
19:08:49 <Figs> how about a program that looks like the Chevron logo!
19:08:52 <Figs> sorta
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19:31:14 <xor> who can come up with the shortest code to turn a number into a list of digits, base 10?
19:31:37 <oerjan> show
19:31:50 <Figs> ?
19:31:54 <Figs> what language?
19:31:59 <oerjan> Haskell
19:32:09 <Figs> count me out then :P
19:32:20 <lament> str
19:32:22 <lament> python
19:32:22 <xor> any language
19:32:23 <lament> i win
19:32:30 <oerjan> darn.
19:32:38 <xor> oh damn
19:32:41 <xor> didn't think of that
19:32:49 <lament> (strings aren't lists in python, but they ARE sequences)
19:33:01 <lament> oh
19:33:08 <xor> [int(i) for i in str(n)]
19:33:10 <xor> will do it
19:33:11 <lament> unless by 'digit' you mean number
19:33:14 <lament> and not character
19:33:38 <lament> do you mean numbers or characters?
19:33:43 <xor> numbers
19:33:47 <oerjan> oh.
19:33:59 <lament> then in python: map(int,str(n))
19:34:08 <oerjan> fromEnum . (:[]) . show
19:34:09 <xor> lament: map is depreciated
19:34:16 <lament> xor: so?
19:34:18 <oerjan> eh, i mean
19:34:27 <xor> ok, lets make this base 53
19:34:54 <oerjan> map (read . (:[])) . show
19:35:16 <xor> def f(n):
19:35:16 <xor> l = []
19:35:17 <xor> while n:
19:35:17 <xor> l.append(n%53); n /= 53
19:35:17 <xor> return l[::-1]
19:35:23 <xor> my crappy python
19:36:25 <Figs> is the number passed as a string?
19:36:28 <xor> no
19:36:42 <lament> no srings attached
19:36:59 <Figs> #include <boost/lambda/lambda.hpp>
19:37:05 <Figs> #include <iostream>
19:37:07 <Figs> #include <string>
19:37:11 <Figs> using namespace std;
19:37:19 <Figs> using namespace boost::lambda;
19:37:28 <xor> for some reason, I really think that C++ fails at this
19:37:32 <Figs> #include <boost/lexical_cast.hpp>
19:37:39 <Figs> int main()
19:37:41 <oerjan> xor: really :D
19:37:41 <Figs> {
19:38:03 <Figs> string s = boost::lexical_cast<string>(number);
19:38:35 <Figs> for_each(s.begin(),s.end(),cout<< _1 <<'\n');
19:38:36 <Figs> return 0;
19:38:37 <Figs> }
19:39:12 <xor> ok, here is my code as a list comprehension:
19:39:17 <xor> def f(n): import math; return [(n/(53**i))%53 for i in range(math.ceil(math.log(n, 53)))]
19:39:20 <xor> that's pretty good
19:39:52 <xor> actually, tack [::-1] onto the end of that
19:40:03 <oerjan> is _that_ base 10?
19:40:04 <Figs> well, imagine doing it in C :P
19:40:04 <xor> most significant digit first
19:40:08 <xor> no, base 53
19:40:19 <oerjan> oh.
19:40:25 <oerjan> in that case, hm.
19:40:32 <oerjan> import Numeric
19:40:35 <xor> so you can't do the converting to string copout
19:41:11 <oerjan> f n = showIntAtBase 53 id n
19:41:20 <oerjan> yoohoo!
19:41:29 <xor> lame
19:41:39 <lament> here's my code
19:41:40 <lament> def f(n):return(n>52 and f(n/53)or[])+[n%53]
19:42:30 <oerjan> another way then.
19:42:41 <oerjan> import Data.List
19:43:03 <oerjan> f 0 = [0]
19:43:21 <xor> lament: nice
19:46:22 <oerjan> f n = reverse $ unfoldr g n where g 0 = Nothing; g n = Just (n `mod` 53, n `div` 53)
19:46:31 <oerjan> i think
19:47:39 <oerjan> bah, better to copy lament i think
19:48:53 <oerjan> except his code fails at 0
19:48:57 <oerjan> i think
19:49:10 <xor> nope
19:49:24 <lament> oerjan: doesn't
19:49:26 <oerjan> indeed.
19:49:29 <oerjan> ok
19:49:48 <lament> not only that
19:49:53 <lament> my code even sort of works for negative numbers :D
19:50:13 <xor> it does?
19:50:15 <lament> no.
19:50:55 <lament> it just returns n%53
19:51:04 <lament> but at least it doesn't crash or anything :D
19:51:16 <xor> mine crashes
19:51:26 <xor> can't take the log of a negative number
19:51:38 <oerjan> f n = (if n > 52 then f(n `div` 53) else []) ++ [n `mod` 53]
19:52:06 <xor> what is `x` ?
19:52:29 <oerjan> turning a function into an operator
19:52:49 <oerjan> n `div` 53 = div n 53
19:53:53 <oerjan> it seems haskell loses on slightly less compact syntax
19:56:01 <oerjan> unless, hm...
19:59:20 <oerjan> f n=(if n>52 then f(n`div`53)else[])++[n`mod`53]
19:59:35 <oerjan> ok it's a tie with all unnecessary spaces removed
20:00:39 <oerjan> eh, wait
20:00:47 -!- Figs has left (?).
20:00:59 <oerjan> is not
20:03:14 <oklopol> {53Ntb_} in oklotalk
20:03:27 <oklopol> though i'm of course adding built-ins as needed :)
20:03:43 * oerjan bops oklopol on the head
20:04:38 <oklopol> :D
20:07:36 <oerjan> ok one more try
20:07:44 <oerjan> f n=[a|n>52,a<-f(n`div`53)]++[n`mod`53]
20:07:49 <oklopol> {0->0;_%53:.$_/53} in oklotalk without the built-in function
20:07:56 <oerjan> yes!
20:07:59 <oklopol> :D
20:08:09 <oklopol> well, you won in existing languages...
20:08:49 <xor> hmm
20:08:50 <oerjan> conveniently a list comprehension with guard at the beginning gives []
20:13:25 <xor> we should RAID our brains
20:16:05 <xor> RAID 5, probably, because no one wants to be dedicated parity
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21:47:03 <SevenInchBread> yay! I'm finally learning shit about computer architectures.
21:47:19 <xor> you eat anal residue?
21:47:20 <xor> wtf?
21:47:39 * SevenInchBread is working on a theretical computer system that runs with pentits (or however you call them)
21:48:02 <SevenInchBread> 5-valued thingies.
21:48:10 <lament> pits
21:48:17 <SevenInchBread> ....PITS
21:49:17 <oerjan> quits i think.
21:49:31 <oerjan> that would be logical anyhow.
21:49:32 <SevenInchBread> That's a sucky name.
21:49:37 <SevenInchBread> pentits and pits
21:49:59 <oerjan> bits, terts, quits from Latin bini, terni, quini.
21:50:35 <oklopol> binary digit, ternary digit i'm pretty sure
21:50:47 <SevenInchBread> you would replace binary NOT with SWISH and DROOP.
21:51:03 <oklopol> ...quarternary digit next if i guessed 4 right :)
21:51:32 <oerjan> *sigh* everybody keeps swapping mindlessly between Latin and Greek. Hexadecimal is even a hybrid.
21:51:50 <SevenInchBread> if you use -15, -5, 0, 5, 15 to represent the possible values - then swish will basically reverse the polarity, -5 become 5 and 5 becomes -5
21:51:53 <SevenInchBread> ....fuck word origins.
21:51:59 <oerjan> quaternary
21:52:47 <oklopol> i think 'pet' would be nice too
21:53:12 <SevenInchBread> ...and DROOP represents the other dimension - it lowers shifts the value closer to 0 (not sure what 0 will do - might stay the same or it might wrap back around to -15 or 15)
21:53:24 <SevenInchBread> pet sounds cool. :)
21:53:33 <xor> binary is the way to go
21:53:40 <SevenInchBread> NOPE
21:55:32 <SevenInchBread> it is interesting to consider the possibilities though... the number of capacitors you'd need would plummet dramatically to represent the same amount of data... you could put 5 interupts per line (or is it 4?)...
21:55:49 <SevenInchBread> and some other nifty things.
21:56:33 <oklopol> SevenInchBread no.
21:56:52 <SevenInchBread> ??
21:57:23 <oklopol> the thingies are as small as they get with the current technology, more states would require bigger thingies
21:57:47 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... it would?
21:58:12 <SevenInchBread> a bit is low charge or high charge... you couldn't split it into 5 levels without making it bigger?
21:58:19 <xor> no
21:58:41 <SevenInchBread> well yeah, I'm not really considering a practical implementation here.
21:58:45 <xor> a transistor is binary
21:58:58 <oklopol> you would need an exponential growth in the number of wire thingies in the storage thingie
21:59:21 <oklopol> hmm
21:59:25 <oklopol> no you probably wouldn't
21:59:49 <oklopol> but it's clear even 3 states would make as microscopic stuff as in a pc impossible
22:00:25 <SevenInchBread> ....well, transistors aren't strictly binary... otherwise they wouldn't play nice with analog devices like my guitar amp.
22:01:27 <oklopol> well, binary transfer is faster and safer than analog
22:02:25 <SevenInchBread> >.>
22:02:48 <SevenInchBread> I thought.... the main advantage of analog computers was the increase in speed?
22:02:57 <oklopol> never.
22:03:43 <oklopol> i've no idea what an analog computer is, so i have no say there really
22:03:45 <oklopol> :)
22:04:22 <SevenInchBread> an analog comptuer is a comptuer that isn't... digital
22:04:38 <SevenInchBread> like the hydraulic one the Brits made to simulate economy.
22:04:38 <oklopol> i know
22:05:20 <oklopol> anyway, quantum computers are the way to go
22:05:29 <SevenInchBread> and even so... a 5-value system is still digital.
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22:05:56 <oklopol> yeah, but you are wrong in thinking it can be made smaller
22:06:34 <SevenInchBread> not smaller... just hold more information per unit - I guess.
22:06:45 * SevenInchBread didn't mean to delve into physical properties.
22:07:06 <oklopol> well, that's pretty obvious :=)
22:07:30 <oklopol> you could use a calculator for storing one ...pet
22:11:40 <SevenInchBread> yeah... analog computers are much faster for doing computations that are related to their physical properties.
22:11:57 <SevenInchBread> ...would be cool if we had hybrid computers.
22:12:03 <SevenInchBread> that did a little bit of both.
22:12:57 <oklopol> qubits will do anything
22:13:29 <lament> SevenInchBread: that's very easy.
22:13:33 <lament> SevenInchBread: you just need analog hardware.
22:13:46 <lament> connected to a digital computer.
22:14:11 <lament> (same with quantum computers - they're just regular computers equipped with a quantum register)
22:14:46 <lament> SevenInchBread: Analog hardware is easy to get - for example, a microphone - but you will need to construct something specialized for solving differential equations or whatnot.
22:18:10 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... guess you could just plug some analog hardware into your computer and feed certain problems through it.
22:18:35 <SevenInchBread> BUT
22:19:05 <SevenInchBread> it's not standardize... so you can't take advantage of having most modern computers having these certain "analog functions".
22:19:18 <SevenInchBread> ....no big deal though.
22:23:02 <lament> so?
22:23:08 <lament> think of graphics cards
22:23:16 <lament> they do magic
22:23:30 <lament> they do operations that your computer would otherwise do anyway, but much faster
22:23:37 <lament> same with analog stuff
22:23:45 <lament> you would plug in a "differential equations card"
22:24:19 <lament> as soon as a game comes out that uses differential equations to simulate physics, and it runs fine with the card and poorly without, everybody will buy the card.
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22:53:15 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... I didn't actually know what graphics cards did. :)
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23:25:27 <RodgerTheGreat> graphics cards use totally normal digital hardware, but it's very specialized for it's purpose.
23:25:35 <RodgerTheGreat> more specialized = more efficient.
23:26:11 <RodgerTheGreat> the heart of a modern GPU is really a vector processor- an ALU built for doing matrix multiplications.
23:44:14 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... are there different ways to run processes in the background on different linux distros.
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