00:00:18 Plof2 is coming along nicely :) 00:00:56 i read about plof 00:01:01 is 2 the same but better? 00:01:06 Basically. 00:01:06 or totally different? 00:01:17 I made some fairly major changes to areas in Plof1 that bugged me. 00:01:27 Particularly deep returns and associative arrays. 00:01:33 cool, i liked how you did if's and such, though don't remember that well anymore :) 00:01:53 yeah, i remember you complaining about them 00:02:00 Heh 00:02:07 I sort of designed myself into a corner with them :-P 00:02:18 how? 00:03:01 Well, since things like if() and while() took functions as arguments. return was a bit ambiguous. 00:03:26 e.g. if I do: if({a == 3}, {return(6);}); it's questionable whether that return should just go to the if, or out of the function the if is in. 00:03:47 Mind you, it's not ambiguous to the programmer, but the language was designed in such a way that it's ambiguous. 00:03:59 i see 00:04:07 that was exactly what i liked :) 00:04:15 but, i understand how it's bad... 00:04:20 you removed that? 00:04:24 Well, I haven't changed how if is handled and such, but I've made that part less ambiguous. 00:04:25 or fixed it somehow? 00:04:34 Basically, I made two classes of functions: thick functions and thin functions. 00:04:48 If you return from a thin function, it falls all the way down to the latest thick function. 00:04:57 yeah 00:05:03 i see how that'd go 00:05:18 So: if(:{a == 3}, {return(6);}); will return all the way up to the function that called if(). 00:05:23 you'll prolly be able to do everything pretty nicely like that 00:05:30 It's working fairly well :) 00:05:55 if i wasn't so tired i might try to think of an example where you might wanna have something in-between those two types 00:06:11 Heh 00:06:11 though you might've thought it through since you're making the language :) 00:06:36 I'm trying to find a balance between complexity and confusion, so to speak. 00:08:03 There are certainly more /possible/ classes. 00:08:17 But I think that adding them would create unnecessary confusion without enough benefit. 00:08:34 making anything more complex than thick/thin for returning would probably eventually lead to a tc function call system 00:08:36 So, Plof2 is basically a redesign of Plof, simply due to limitations of the basic concepts of Plof1 00:08:47 pikhq: Yup. 00:09:33 Although one could surely think of function classes that'd not affect returning. 00:10:31 My new interpreter is rampantly incomplete as of yet :P 00:10:46 Anyway, I still haven't found a nice balance for operator overloading. 00:12:53 I need to see the spec as it stands. . . 00:13:06 I haven't written it yet :-P 00:14:36 So, I need to see a core dump of your brain. 00:14:51 Hah 00:16:14 or you can see the old one, fix it yourself and assume GregorR has done essentially the same 00:16:42 although i'm not sure if it was really a spec 00:16:49 Indeed, I could do that, except for Gregor's different idea of reality. 00:16:52 might've been just a few examples 00:16:58 heh :) 00:17:12 It was a semispec. 00:17:21 For all intents and purposes, the *interpreter* was your spec. 00:18:32 yeah, that's often the case 00:18:41 (with lazy lang developers) 00:18:58 Like myself for example ;) 00:20:02 well, specs are for wimps, why recode it in english if it's already done in a real language 00:20:45 * GregorR begins writing something resembling a spec. 00:21:49 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:22:27 * oklopol can hardly wait 00:26:01 specs are for allowing the possibility of several mutually incompatible implementations. 00:26:21 At least that's why I wrote a spec for Malbolge Unshackled. 00:26:51 Heh 00:27:08 and then i made my interpreter support several of them, randomly selected. 00:30:45 it sort of got out of hand. 00:31:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:34:59 -!- Figs has joined. 00:35:11 hello 00:35:12 (\d{4}[- ]){3}\d{4} 00:35:18 what the hell does that mean? O.o 00:35:24 any regex experts around? :P 00:36:11 three times (4 digits, possibly "- ") then 4 digits 00:36:14 (maybe) 00:36:30 ok 00:36:30 X{4} means X 4 times 00:36:34 that seams reasonable 00:36:40 but it's darned esoteric ;) 00:36:41 and () is normal nesting 00:37:07 Something in the form of: 1234-5678-9012-3456 00:37:18 The -'s can be spaces. 00:37:22 0000000000000000 is legal though? 00:37:23 oh 00:37:29 No, it isn't. 00:37:31 [] is a characher group 00:37:34 damn 00:37:40 Mus thave either '-' or ' ', not neither. 00:37:48 i though it's optional... silly me :) 00:37:54 yep 00:37:58 what about 00:38:08 1234 5678-9012-3456 00:38:14 Also OK 00:38:16 yeah, was just thinking that 00:38:27 can you define it's jsut one of them? 00:38:31 *jsut 00:38:32 *just 00:38:56 Hmmmmmm, not easily ... 00:38:59 Lemme think ... 00:39:08 well 00:39:20 \d{4}([- ])(\d{4}\1){2}\d{4} 00:39:26 yeah 00:39:33 mmmm... wolfmother is such a sweet band. :) 00:41:39 oerjan... or anyone 00:41:40 hmm, i have a hard time understanding this... a quantum computer is supposed to be able to factorize numbers fast etc because they can brute force all possible cases simultaneously 00:41:40 now to actually be able to do any calculations that lead to the answer the qubits have to interact i assume, but why do they let other qubits touch them without losing they omnipresence? 00:41:57 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:44:33 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 00:45:53 relative to each other they are not "omnipresent", but relative to the outside observer they are. or so i think. 00:45:59 okay 00:46:04 what is the point of regex? 00:46:33 ... 00:46:39 to... match patterns. 00:47:06 ok... 00:47:17 that was my exact point with the air example... but it does not foresee then, merely know exactly which particles are known by which? 00:47:23 *merely knows 00:49:18 regex is basically intended to match patterns in strings that would otherise take a lot of screwing around with regular code. 00:49:34 sheer laziness is the main goal. 00:49:46 ...for me, anyways. 00:49:48 :P 00:49:49 ok 00:49:58 I think I may be too lazy 00:50:05 impossible. 00:51:25 you don't know lazy. it took an hour for me to leave for the shop across the street because i was too lazy to put on shoes 00:52:22 I'm so lazy I wrote a shell script that shows my desktop 00:52:29 :) 00:52:30 even though I already have button to do it 00:52:45 * oerjan is reminded of a norwegian tv ad where someone wants to go naked to the shop because it's just a short trip 00:52:49 because I didn't want to move my fingers to the top of the keyboard :P 00:54:44 okay, it took me 2 weeks to decide to actually download all simpsons episodes after i'd decided to do it 00:55:04 and it requires me to do 5 clicks and typing the word simpsons 00:55:49 AND i dl'd cube 2 in french, but didn't want to do the work again, so i watched it 3 times hoping i'd just learn french 00:55:54 how's that for lazy? :P 00:58:11 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:01:16 afkish 01:04:28 mm, fish 01:21:24 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:22:58 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 01:37:15 -!- Sukoshi` has changed nick to Sukoshi. 01:43:31 -!- Figs has left (?). 02:13:41 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:27:44 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 02:29:19 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 02:35:28 BEHOLD 02:35:30 MY FIRST STEP 02:35:38 INTO THE WORLD OF DIGITAL MUSIC LOLZ 02:36:28 http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4164 02:36:33 ...a very modest step at that. 02:37:02 http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg 02:37:51 NOW 02:38:01 I just need to figure out... what the wav format looks like 02:38:14 so I can plot waves into a playable file. 02:42:18 I'd just plot raw waves *shrugs* 02:42:31 Then use something capable of playing raw audio. 02:44:58 hmmm... I don't really know a lot about audio hardware... you can play plain ol' wave coordinats? 02:45:18 This has nothing to do with hardware ... I'm talking about software :) 02:47:15 alrighty then.... I don't know anything about audio software either. 02:48:00 With many audio players, you can give it files containing just raw waveform data. 02:48:10 e.g. unsigned 8-bit values, 22000 per second 02:48:27 .wav files are pretty similar, but have a header to specify those things. 02:49:20 but I mean... what's the waveform data look like? What does each byte value represent? 02:50:26 The format tells you. For example, unsigned 8-bit 22 kHz sampling rate tells you that each sample point is interpolated between 0 and 255 and that 22,000 samples constitute the waveform for one second. 02:50:57 And that the origin is considered 126-127. 02:50:58 >.> 02:51:18 * SevenInchBread just saw something catapult over his head. 02:52:59 OH 02:53:02 wait 02:53:04 I got it... 02:53:11 origin... the center of the wave... 126. 02:53:13 * SevenInchBread facepalms. 02:53:13 apparently it was a boomerang :) 02:53:21 ....haha 02:54:08 hmmmm... 02:57:18 * oerjan doesn't understand why the origin should be 126. 127.5 is the mid value after all. 02:59:08 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("ERC Version 5.1 (CVS) $Revision: 1.796 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"). 03:04:00 well... the format can't represent floating points. 03:09:17 i mean i'ld expect the origin to be either 127, 128 or not actually represented. 03:33:53 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:00:25 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:21:54 fun 04:22:07 i feel like writing some audio producers now 04:23:02 8 bits doesn't seem like much 04:23:20 and, that's 22,000 bytes/sec 04:24:03 1 megabyte per minute 04:24:12 O.o 04:25:32 You can use 64 bits and 128kHz :) 04:26:00 does some format actually do that? 04:26:17 Sure - raw, 64-bit, 128kHz audio data X-P 04:26:56 Anybody have an SCM they could recommend that can have a repository easily uploadable to any server? I used darcs before, I'm wondering if there's anything else y'all'd recommend. 04:27:11 what about stereo? 04:28:07 I like subversion 04:28:55 subversion doesn't fit the criteria. 04:29:13 I don't know how to put stereo in raw audio, but I think it's just simple interlacing of some kind. 04:30:36 "repository easily uploadable to any server"? 04:30:55 you can upload repo dumps 04:31:11 And then checking out involves downloading every revision X_X 04:31:35 no... 04:31:57 Can you just upload the repository as it appears on disk to anywhere accessible via HTTP? 04:32:33 what do you mean? 04:33:09 I mean: I can upload stuff accessible via HTTP. Not WebDAV, not ssh, not custom servers. HTTP. 04:33:31 with the right scripts 04:33:37 cgi ftw 04:33:57 Are those scripts somewhere online I don't know of? Some kind of PHP WebDAV? :) 04:34:22 I don't know of any 04:34:44 But simple to write 04:34:49 Sooo, you're suggesting I use scripts that don't actually exist? 04:35:14 Well, you'd have to write them before you could use them 04:35:38 Gee. 04:35:40 Thanks X-P 04:36:18 Very simple, just except the dump file, then run one svnadmin command on it 04:37:02 *accept 04:39:08 but i'm no svn expert 04:40:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 05:19:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:31:43 -!- Sukoshi has joined. 07:33:51 Supplementing the earlier discussion, the reason the origin is at 126 or 127 is because that's how Linux reads in the ADC input. 07:40:03 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line."). 07:46:48 ........... I'd say the reason is probably because that's the middle of the range. 07:46:53 But sure, whatever. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:16 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 08:18:27 afk food 08:19:30 I'm thinking about making the object combination operator be nothing. 08:19:49 e.g.: var DerivedType = A :[ stufftoadd = "bler" ]; 08:21:03 That would leave + open to operator overloading. 08:35:31 back 09:00:48 plof again? 09:01:15 -!- RoboMonkey has joined. 09:03:08 GreaseMonkey: Yuh :) 09:04:22 I need to talk to ... pikhq or jix. 09:13:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:33:16 heh 09:37:41 bsmnt_bot: You have any opinions? :P 09:37:48 X_X 09:37:51 I hate tab completion ;) 09:37:55 bsmntbombdood: Above. 09:38:23 about +? 09:38:40 i dunno, i'm going to bed 09:38:50 -!- EgoBot has joined. 09:39:14 Never mind then :P 09:42:19 ":[", "];" plof :< 09:42:37 talk about a sad language 09:43:18 ...not as an imperative though 09:44:41 :-P 09:44:45 }; 09:44:57 ^(I'm Plof and I frown :[ ) 09:45:21 !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )^ 09:45:30 hmm, eh :P 09:45:41 !ps d 09:45:44 1 EgoBot: daemon ul reload 09:45:46 2 EgoBot: daemon deadfish reload 09:45:48 3 EgoBot: daemon irp reload 09:45:50 4 EgoBot: daemon dog reload 09:45:51 :O 09:45:52 5 GregorR: ps 09:45:56 !dog fish 09:45:59 hsif 09:46:29 it just doesn't do anything in unlambda :) 09:46:38 !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )S 09:46:40 I'm Plof and I frown :[ 09:46:44 yay 09:46:53 !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )aS 09:46:56 (I'm Plof and I frown :[ ) 09:47:11 !ul (I'm Plof and I frown :[ ):aSS 09:47:14 (I'm Plof and I frown :[ )I'm Plof and I frown :[ 09:47:28 ah, the interpreter is made in brainfuck :P 09:47:36 i wondered why it's that slow 09:47:50 Feel free to give me one in $OTHER_LANGUAGE. 09:48:23 !irp Blah blah blah words words, please. 09:50:17 no no, i think it's good it's in brianfuck, i just didn't remember that right away 09:50:20 ..brian 09:50:54 That was a weird way to end that. 09:51:27 yeah, i'm bad with sentences. 10:34:31 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("後でね。"). 10:42:35 -!- RoboMonkey has quit ("byes"). 10:42:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gonna go, gnight"). 10:44:00 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:44:03 -!- lament has joined. 12:58:13 -!- jix has joined. 14:29:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:31:38 GregorR: My point it that 126-127 is _not_ the middle of the range, 127-128 is. 14:54:59 -!- ihope_ has joined. 14:55:10 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 15:00:23 -!- crathman_ has joined. 16:24:51 -!- jix__ has joined. 16:33:34 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:09:54 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:16:58 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 17:27:09 -!- crathman_ has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]"). 17:31:00 -!- crathman has joined. 19:03:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:22:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:22:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:39:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:51:10 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 20:03:29 -!- crathman_ has joined. 20:05:06 -!- crathman has quit (Connection timed out). 20:05:11 -!- crathman_ has changed nick to crathman. 20:06:39 -!- crathman has quit (Client Quit). 20:37:32 l'hello 20:37:39 lello 20:37:47 l'I still don't know whether I like letting the null operator be object combination. 20:38:51 we need a hash function that isn't Merkle-Damgård 20:38:52 er 20:38:56 wrong channel 20:38:59 :-P 20:40:58 I'm in the other one too ;) 20:41:01 I just never talk there. 20:59:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 21:00:02 -!- ShadowHntr has joined. 21:38:26 -!- crathman has joined. 21:39:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:58:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 22:17:36 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:17:47 -!- GregorR has joined. 22:40:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:59:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 23:00:27 -!- Srekel2 has joined. 23:14:15 so many representations of the natural numbers, each stating the same axioms in slightly different ways 23:14:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Client Quit). 23:19:23 -!- crathman_ has joined. 23:20:13 -!- crathman_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:21:48 \exist \mathbf{N}: \varnothing \in \mathbf{N} \and (\forall x: x \in \mathbf{N} \implies x \cup \{x\} \in \mathbf{N}) 23:27:55 -!- Srekel2 has left (?). 23:37:06 -!- crathman has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:40:15 hmmm, "definable" numbers 23:40:19 countable infinite 23:52:03 what 23:52:12 mmmmmyeah. 23:52:57 so it seems the set of all important numbers is countable 23:54:29 which is interesting, because the set of reals isn't countable 23:54:34 there exists a countable model for the ZF axioms. 23:55:19 right 23:55:24 bsmntbombdood: it's actually not all that interesting. 23:55:55 most reals are not important, they're just there for consistency.