< 1175991012 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone care to link to the logs? < 1175991023 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. In topic. < 1175992703 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1175993320 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1175993326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1175993328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my FOOS interpreter works < 1175993535 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/FOOS.tgz < 1175993539 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run main.py for a repl < 1175993564 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dun wrote something in Smalltalk zomg 8-D < 1175993671 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175993906 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175994178 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world" print < 1175994185 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hello world < 1175994408 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1175994470 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@'print-hello [" world" "hello" @swap + print] @object %inherit add-method done create print-hello < 1175994660 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently working on creating an incredibly modular distro. . . < 1175994712 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: http://www.nongnu.org/sps/ < 1175994764 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: (Or better:) http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/sps/ < 1175994823 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thoughts involve something like Slax's .mo files for packages, except that each file would be able to auto-install dependencies. . . < 1175994834 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The core OS would include: < 1175994835 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux < 1175994837 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox < 1175994844 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package manager (in .sh) < 1175994849 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else. < 1175994924 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Busybox? < 1175994938 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in /bin, in one executable < 1175994956 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the core system is about. . . Nothing. < 1175994989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Seriously, click my link above ... it's a packaging system I wrote that could aid you greatly. < 1175994999 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1175995009 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Describe it; the page doesn't detail much. < 1175995072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Heh. Each package is installed to /sps//. In /bin there is only a bunch of symlinks to a special tool which runs the appropriate program. To do so, it checks the user's environment for overrides and such. So, any user can have in their environment whatever selection of programs and libraries they please, and whatever version they please, simply by modifying one file. < 1175995120 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and how modular is Busybox? < 1175995123 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing a package onto the system is as simple as extracting it, installing a package into an environment is as simple as echo bash >> ~/.spsenv (or whatever I named that file) < 1175995140 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: It's a single package. < 1175995144 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: What aspect of busybox? < 1175995146 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, it's the core module. < 1175995172 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: well, Busybox is an executable and a bunch of symbolic links, right? < 1175995178 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yes. < 1175995181 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a global repository of packages? < 1175995200 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the symbolic links don't carry much information, so most of BusyBox is in that one executable. < 1175995204 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I *love* that idea. < 1175995211 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does one go about changing the functionality of that one executable? < 1175995218 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Recompile. < 1175995224 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: So do I, that's why I wrote it - but I let it languish. If you're interested, I'll revive it. I figure it would help with the design you're talking about. < 1175995228 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus why it's the core of the system. < 1175995246 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm *very* interested. < 1175995246 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it written in? < 1175995255 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1175995256 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds a *lot* like Klik. < 1175995259 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1175995261 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I wrote it in perl >_> ... I was unenlightened at the time <_< < 1175995263 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox, that is. < 1175995269 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: And it's not even the least like Klik ... < 1175995297 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, other than the fact that Klik keeps its stuff in a local sandwhich. < 1175995329 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR knows Perl? Ewww. < 1175995343 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *wish* it was written in a compilable language, making things easier to set up, though. < 1175995354 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As-is, the core system would have to include 3 packages: < 1175995355 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: If I revive it, I will almost certainly rewrite it in C. < 1175995358 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can rewrite it. < 1175995361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I wrote it in Perl :P < 1175995363 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox < 1175995367 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a bad, bad choice ^^ < 1175995368 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-core < 1175995374 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl-core < 1175995375 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any dependancy tracking? < 1175995377 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. 4. < 1175995383 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sps < 1175995394 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: SPS isn't that part of the packaging system. < 1175995401 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: OH! (rewind) < 1175995402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Yes. < 1175995410 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: But not in terms of installation, SPS doesn't do installs :) < 1175995412 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175995421 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: But if you add a tool to your environment, it adds all of its dependencies as well. < 1175995430 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Ah... so similar to the Slackware package manager? < 1175995439 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Does it automagically download the dependencies as well? < 1175995459 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependancy tracking is annoying to implement. < 1175995461 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: It doesn't do anything regarding installation, only use. I intended for the installation/dependency grabbing/whatever portion to be a differnet tool. < 1175995465 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1175995477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tool I never wrote ;) < 1175995484 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Try to make it easy to have SPS automagically call that tool, then. < 1175995491 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I propose a small shift of SPS's focus. < 1175995496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Oh? < 1175995509 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it manage many versions of one application. < 1175995518 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, Firefox 1 and Firefox 2 for example. < 1175995520 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds ideal. < 1175995522 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's what it does. < 1175995534 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: But I thought it was a *total* package manager... < 1175995537 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds *almost* like installation would be as simple as drag-drop, but dependency grabbing would require an external tool. < 1175995545 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Egg-zactly. < 1175995554 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: SPS packages are installed to /sps// < 1175995558 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs dependency tracking? < 1175995564 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies are for nubs :P < 1175995564 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my dependency idea is simple. . . < 1175995566 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: So you can have any number of versions of the same package installed. < 1175995577 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: And choose which one to use by specifying it in your .spsenv file. < 1175995577 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Nifty. < 1175995599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll rewrite it in C this week. < 1175995607 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't this weekend, too dern much homework >_> < 1175995611 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make each package have an on-install script, which checks for appropriate versions of dependencies, and installs them. < 1175995640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like every other package manager... < 1175995656 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Not quite. < 1175995687 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless your package manager involves "copy package into /sps/ to install", that is. < 1175995719 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1175995725 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bit is a very, very Hurdish idea. < 1175995741 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPS represents a part of the package manager that doesn't exist in conventional package management ... < 1175995741 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, that *is* the Hurd package manager) < 1175995753 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realistically, you could set dpkg, rpm, whatever on top of it. < 1175995775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does sps stand for? < 1175995778 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right *now*, I'm thinking of just having a *very* simple package manager. < 1175995785 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: The Segregated Packages System < 1175995801 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it segregates the packages :P < 1175995806 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably just build a script-based package manager for now. . . < 1175995871 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make the package system modular. < 1175995876 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves to do homezvork. < 1175995881 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fwoom* < 1175995893 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you're a hard-line Slacker (like me), you don't bother with that dependency tracking guffaw that these youngsters cook up. < 1175995918 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATM, I think my package manager will consist of a installer script which calls the script to install a specific package. . . < 1175995955 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: My *current* dependency manager consists of "each package just automagically downloads and installs what it needs". . . < 1175996001 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr. < 1175996015 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite what you want, but I'm just wanting a temporary solution ATM. < 1175996020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we reinventing portage? < 1175996025 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. . . < 1175996027 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, yeah. < 1175996034 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.... < 1175996048 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary portage. . . < 1175996070 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; I'm too much of a Gentoo man for my own good. < 1175996078 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You very rarely see novel ideas in package management nowadays. < 1175996096 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd argue that's because a lot of good ones have already been made. < 1175996173 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not disagreeing there. < 1175996187 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPDF may switch from ObjC. < 1175996192 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing that libFoundation is refusing to compile :D < 1175996304 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also thinking about making the core system run in RAM, and have UnionFS be used to merge in either an RW or RO root partition. . . < 1175996326 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnionFS? < 1175996350 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used in LiveCDs to allow one to combine an RW and RO filesystem into one. . . < 1175996351 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's because libFoundation doesn't compile < 1175996355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just headers < 1175996373 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: No, it has makefiles. < 1175996395 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Knoppix, it merges a ramdisk and the root FS on CD to allow one to write to the filesystem even though the core system is on a RO media. < 1175996407 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Friendly person at #objc tells me to use GnuStep. < 1175996439 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're implementing a LiveCD, Pikhq ? < 1175996440 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1175996463 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't get gnustep figured out though < 1175996464 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: No, just something which is easy to make into a LiveCD. < 1175996474 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By merit of the core system just being an initrd.img. < 1175996492 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Which merges itself with another filesystem. < 1175996545 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been feeling pricked of late to try a versioning FS. < 1175996550 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for my source directories. < 1175996584 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. . . < 1175996605 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool < 1175996675 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got gnu step, but I can't find the right headers < 1175996759 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to SVN it now. < 1175996868 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn, i'm almost out of disk space < 1175996909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tempted to make a bad your-mom joke. < 1175996915 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I didn't :P < 1175996987 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your MOM didn't! < 1175997046 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just lost in corniness :D < 1175997055 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. GNUStep is huge. < 1175997065 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, bsmntbombdood. < 1175997078 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not implementing PS unless you can give me a good argument to. < 1175997079 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out I had the wrong gnustep package < 1175997084 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to know why? < 1175997112 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do, I suggest you grab the GS source and take a look at the amount of files in src/ . < 1175997117 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1175997118 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175997145 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked over the PDF Reference? < 1175997157 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1175997160 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1175997163 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Use the reference from '01 (the second newest), the newest adds BS like animation that nobody uses.) < 1175997199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdfs/PDFReference16.pdf <-- Fifth, which I suggest we implment first and http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdf_reference.pdf <-- Sixth. < 1175997217 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.6 Reference is 8 MB. < 1175997227 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 Reference is 31 MB. < 1175997233 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose wisely, my friend :) < 1175997266 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1175997292 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 == 6th ed., 1.6 == 5th ed. Don't ask me why. < 1175997293 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 1236 pages... < 1175997305 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but it's pretty light reading actually. < 1175997313 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skim over the syntax, the objects, and such. < 1175997344 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... And SVN is still pulling stuff from GNUStep. < 1175997352 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Just finished. < 1175997372 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know any objc? < 1175997392 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been spending the morning reading Apple's introduction to Object Oriented Programming. < 1175997406 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing < 1175997411 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say, it addresses one of my biggest problems with OOP. < 1175997421 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1175997436 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When to use a class over a struct and functions. < 1175997455 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing < 1175997457 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a language like Java, the choice is moot, because *everything* is a class, but when you have a choice it gets a bit tricky. < 1175997496 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC is not much actually. Just a thin veneer over C and is very C-like. < 1175997551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does objc fix that problem? < 1175997565 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesen't as much as the document gives you a general guideline. < 1175997617 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say that only use OOP when you either A) Need the design to be modular B) Have a reason to hide the implementation C) Want to encapsulate code with a set interface. < 1175997642 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should read the ObjC concept of the dynamic runtime. A very nifty idea. < 1175997652 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have a bunch of functions that all take the same struct, that's an object < 1175997672 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the syntax to use the struct and objects is not the same. < 1175997691 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading apple's "the objective-c programming language" < 1175997697 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main reason I wanna use OOP for this project is that OOP gives the advantage of syntactically thorough encapsulated state. < 1175997712 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're reading the same book :) < 1175997765 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to seperate certain components cleanly so that replacements can be coded if needed. < 1175997769 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love free ebooks < 1175997774 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1175997797 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graphics system is the main seperate component. We might also want to seperate parts of the rendering engine and such. < 1175997810 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now. Which portion do you think we should write first? < 1175997835 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about the pdf format, but i'm going to say parser < 1175998006 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's going to be the easiest. < 1175998020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very similar to Forth. < 1175998039 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's all pseudo-RPN, there's very little to tokenize. < 1175998110 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a look at internal page 48 in the 5th ed. PDF standard. < 1175998115 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skim from there down. < 1175998157 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZW? < 1175998216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go < 1175998235 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, PDF Viewer page. < 1175998236 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garrr. < 1175998251 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bout 2hrs < 1175998266 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take leave myself in a bit, and won't be back on 'till 9. < 1175998274 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be doing homework at that time too, so bleh. < 1175998278 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 being 3 hours from now. < 1175998288 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do too much homework < 1175998302 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to cram all of electricity in a month, you know. < 1175998329 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started without knowing an Amp from a Watt, and I've gotten about half the college semester done in 2.5 weeks. < 1175998343 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to finish up magnetism and start on AP practice tests. < 1175998395 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC is actually pretty esoteric in some ways. Probably due to SmallTalk. < 1175998404 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel needs some large OCaML project too :) < 1175998652 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has his i386 Debian chroot up to use as a modlinux host. . . < 1175999008 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, do you enjoy functional programming Pikhq ? < 1175999041 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Meh. < 1175999051 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of an imperative thinker. < 1175999129 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just means you haven't found the Right Language (TM). < 1175999149 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaML is supposedly good for imperative thinkers too. I dunno, haven't tried it meself. < 1175999164 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets kernel 2.6.16.46 < 1175999284 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've grown fond of Plof. . . < 1175999299 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting for Plof to mature :) < 1175999313 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Plof compiled? < 1175999402 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interpreted ATM. < 1175999823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I killed my RAM with a 301327046 byte string. :) < 1175999978 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god why would you allocate that much? < 1175999991 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = "hahaha".replace("", "hu").replace("", "hu") < 1175999993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x < 1175999994 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'huhhuuhuhhuhhuuhuahuhhuuhuhhuhhuuhuahuhhuuhuhhuhhuuhuahuhhuuhu' < 1175999996 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu"); x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu"); < 1175999997 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x < 1175999999 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1176000000 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "", line 1, in < 1176000002 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x < 1176000003 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MemoryError < 1176000005 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> len(x) < 1176000006 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :301327046 < 1176000008 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why. < 1176000026 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay weird unchecked languages. < 1176000028 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....my computer is running as if it got kicked in the balls. < 1176000084 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there are thousands of empty strings between the characters of a string.... HOW THOUGHT-PROVOKING < 1176000106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> "" in "Everything" < 1176000107 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1176000150 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> "" in "" < 1176000151 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1176000156 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE EMPTY STRING IS INSIDE ITSELF. < 1176000201 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes? < 1176000260 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't everything inside itself? < 1176000282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, yeah < 1176000298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list a sublist of itself... < 1176000308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: x.replace("", x) < 1176000346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe... it's like a tree < 1176000360 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = "Hello, World!" < 1176000362 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = x.replace("", x) < 1176000363 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x < 1176000364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Hello, World!HHello, World!eHello, World!lHello, World!lHello, World!oHello, World!,Hello, World! Hello, World!WHello, World!oHello, World!rHello, World!lHello, World!dHello, World!!Hello, World!' < 1176000481 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, just need to build Busybox to have my core system up. . . < 1176000509 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will take a lot more work to get a build environment, at which point I'll try to make everything be self-hosted. . . < 1176000532 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the point of the project? < 1176000631 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To create a distro that I like. < 1176000650 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it's basically called "I'm bored". < 1176000650 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff, distro. Why not create a whole operating system? < 1176000651 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1176000660 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Lazy. < 1176000666 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1176000671 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the core binaries. < 1176000675 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, where are you going to host this distro? < 1176000687 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use my nonlogic account. < 1176000701 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlogic? < 1176000706 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1176000709 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlogic.org < 1176000718 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176000753 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there a nonlogic IRC channel somewhere once? < 1176000790 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##nonlogic < 1176000799 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Freenode. < 1176000907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has plans for an operating system. < 1176000921 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...will probably be years before I ever start though... I've got ideas brewing. < 1176000927 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#awos < 1176000961 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you too? < 1176000981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's going anywhere < 1176000982 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who owns nonlogic? < 1176000995 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's AWOS, now? < 1176001008 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW ... it's an OS. < 1176001009 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: The *paying* members of nonlogic own it. < 1176001019 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Who are they? < 1176001023 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: an os < 1176001030 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I can't remember the full list. . . < 1176001031 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another one? < 1176001045 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: its creator wants to turn it into "the universal operating system" < 1176001048 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I DARE SAY WE SHOULD COMBINE OUR EFFORTS < 1176001057 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, they sound crazy. < 1176001057 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few people on nonlogic have paid, so are allowed to vote on all issues for the nonprofit. < 1176001058 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I was just about to say that. < 1176001071 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *think* that's the general gist of the nonprofit charter) < 1176001073 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nonlogic? < 1176001086 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free shell server/web host. < 1176001087 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah < 1176001088 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ...hail Discordia much? < 1176001094 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be called YAOS and all the source code is going to be public domain and it's going to implement the principle of least authority. Right? < 1176001099 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...wait? < 1176001101 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1176001102 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you pay for Nonlogic also, Pikhq ? < 1176001104 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...what? < 1176001113 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: universal operating system, eh? < 1176001132 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I've not. < 1176001139 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs windows and linux binaries natively < 1176001148 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/runs/planned to run/ < 1176001152 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The payment is just to be a voting member. . . Joining costs nothing. < 1176001167 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Linux binaries, sure, but isn't Windows Wine's job? < 1176001188 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, Discordianism. I'd like to make a Discordian OS... either that or an anti-Discordian OS. Either erisean or anerisean... or indifferent to both persuasions. or at least incorporating something similar - or another such combination of any of those factors. < 1176001190 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEAUTIFUL. < 1176001201 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: ask him < 1176001209 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: can you define "discordian" and "erisean" for me? < 1176001219 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: who's "him"? < 1176001228 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're ready to stard devving bsmntbombdood? < 1176001232 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: AWOSDev < 1176001236 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have lost over half the keys for this keyboard. < 1176001252 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where could they have gone, gah. < 1176001254 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nope... but you can define it yourself if you like. But don't. < 1176001265 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't I? < 1176001301 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we're getting to New Age bullshit - "DISCORDIANISM IS WHATEVER YOU DEFINE IT TO BE" ...and we all know what New Age does to things. < 1176001313 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it PROPELS IT INTO THE AGE OF AQUARIUS... which is a no-no. < 1176001324 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're getting weird. < 1176001337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will propel things into the age of Aquarius for food. < 1176001398 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, http://principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php < 1176001425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that... or just read some of it if you're time is short. < 1176001428 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....haha, midget time. < 1176001467 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not time is short! < 1176001479 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I have them. < 1176001496 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that some of the keys markings dissolved to the point where the masquerade other keys. < 1176001513 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't figure out why I have three 7's. < 1176001521 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I need only two. < 1176001794 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: This is going to be a huge project < 1176001829 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: You didn't realize that already? :P < 1176001866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I am. < 1176001872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, ah. < 1176001886 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a project that I can tell college recruiters that ``I didn't take AP Comp-Sci but I'm still a more awesome programmer than j00.'' and I also think the world needs beter PDF readers that can be ported across platform with no/minimal hastle. < 1176001908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has this feeling some people here are out of grammar. < 1176001912 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've been wanting to do a major project a while because, IMO, little programming projects get boring after a while. < 1176001938 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP comp-sci is a joke at my school < 1176001944 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it is. < 1176001956 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, GO ON < 1176001956 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would've taken it this year as an aside, but I already have 5 AP tests to take. < 1176001970 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those things that shouldn't be called CS < 1176001985 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. I hear it's a pretty accurate reading of what Freshman CS is like in college. < 1176001994 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA Let's sleep through Freshman year! < 1176002013 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1176002017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how about you find a place to host everything, then I start writing the kernel and all, or something? < 1176002020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing I'm going to apply for EE, which is a lot more interestin :P < 1176002024 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interesting < 1176002030 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to go to MIT < 1176002038 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on this operating system, though I'm doing it very slowly. < 1176002089 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, .....googlecode would work... except they have no public domain option... largely because you can't just release stuff to public domain. Apparently ideas aren't free by default. >.< < 1176002129 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether or not it's possible to release stuff into the public domain is much debated. < 1176002144 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say use http://allritesreversed.com/ < 1176002145 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That's tough :P < 1176002159 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I can get in to MIT just like that. < 1176002166 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do want to eventually do graduate studies there though. < 1176002193 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get bad grades and can't pay for it, so I probably won't be able to get it < 1176002210 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1176002339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ....I really should like... learn how to do assembly or C well... < 1176002371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with a microkernel architecture... and have most of the stuff in "user space" or whatever... < 1176002397 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia pretty much says that it's possible to release things into the public doamin. < 1176002402 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you start C you just can't stop. < 1176002413 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody but GregorR says that this means an automatic disclaimer. < 1176002424 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I haven't seen this backed up anywhere. < 1176002508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I find it highly unlikely that I'll ever get hooked to C. < 1176002519 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is fun < 1176002571 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I imagine it would be kind of fun... but hard to work with. < 1176002580 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do everything in? < 1176002667 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm most familiar with Python... meaning that I've rarely used anything else despite doing entirely too much reading on other languages and procrastinating doing a large project in one. < 1176002680 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He works in Python, if I'm not mistaken. < 1176002693 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER < 1176002700 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, this keyboard is so .... feedback-less. < 1176002715 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How people live without feedback on their keyboards I will not know. < 1176002727 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, it is the future! < 1176002731 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...after a quick read over some of the standard library of C... I could probably code in it decently. < 1176002746 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each page in the spec is going to take like 500 lines to implement < 1176002773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes... 618,000 lines < 1176002798 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how Slackware packages are made. . . < 1176002807 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, did you have the name for your OS yet? I wanted to go with something like Sophia (I use variations of it for almost all my projects) < 1176002813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware, hugs and kisses. < 1176002821 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq, er... hugs and kisses < 1176002835 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the plan for a while has been to call it YAOS. < 1176002840 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Just 500 lines? < 1176002850 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another operating system whose name ends in "OS". < 1176002857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SophYAOS? < 1176002862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176002864 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ouch. < 1176002869 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1176002873 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SOUNDS NICE < 1176002886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAYAA < 1176002898 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about YAOSNS, the "NS" standing for "named Sophia"? < 1176002900 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parser won't be too difficult, mabe 200 lines. Some stuff wil probably be in the 700 line mark though. < 1176002909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if the libpoppler people could do it, then so can we! < 1176002937 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... Right? < 1176002946 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to turn the file into an object that can be rendered will take a while < 1176002968 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, it has a nice sound coming out... although there's so many yet-anothers out there that I'd be tempted to call it YAYAOSNS < 1176002976 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I ask once more, where shall we begin? :) < 1176002982 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another YAOS named sophia? < 1176002992 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1176002995 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be very redundant. < 1176002998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but... that sounds lame < 1176003003 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sophia/Sophia/ < 1176003009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD < 1176003013 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would name it FFTH. < 1176003017 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS. < 1176003020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL NOT TOLERATE SCRAMBLING OF TITLE CASE < 1176003034 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why not an OS name that... doesn't end in OS? < 1176003040 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Sophia? < 1176003046 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "Sophia" a good name? < 1176003047 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five Factorial Times Thirty. < 1176003057 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr... < 1176003063 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five Factorial Times Hundred. < 1176003081 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose that we have a PDFDoc object, that is the result of parsing, decompressing, decrypting... the file < 1176003086 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: 12000? < 1176003094 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naostewos ...not another OS ending with OS.... but that name sucks < 1176003110 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yep. < 1176003112 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are we trying seriously to come up with a name here? < 1176003121 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...half the time. < 1176003136 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Would would it internally represent? < 1176003139 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My proposals are "YAOS" and "Sophia". < 1176003148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax < 1176003154 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to intermingle seriousness and joking... as he often finds that most serious things are huge joke. < 1176003181 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we can't agree on a name, it'll be YAOS by default. >:-) < 1176003190 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well... if you want a "weird" name... I can do that easily. < 1176003193 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like how Linus didn't want to call Linux "Linux". < 1176003195 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abraxas is a fantastic album < 1176003204 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh, I just want a name. < 1176003204 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: what? < 1176003212 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YAOS" was somehting I came up with and thought funny. < 1176003215 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SevenInchBread < 1176003221 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, .......... < 1176003233 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have we agreed on Sophia? < 1176003241 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's old enough to be kind of pretentious at this point. < 1176003250 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... I think it's better than YAOS. < 1176003271 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT DOES HAVE A NICE RING TO IT. < 1176003292 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything we can use it as a placeholder. < 1176003311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax is related to Sophia, and ends in X. < 1176003342 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: What will it internally represent? < 1176003354 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: indeed we can. < 1176003359 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, what does PDFDoc have in it? < 1176003371 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can go with the hybrid "YAOSophia" if we get desperate. < 1176003403 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I like the sound of it. < 1176003421 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Another Operating Sophia? < 1176003430 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: the result of reading a file, parsing it, turning the data structures into their unencoded and easily usable data structures < 1176003442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism) < 1176003460 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: who said that "YAO" stood for "Yet Another Operating"? < 1176003468 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it does. Therefore, :-) < 1176003477 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... :P < 1176003489 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Well, what do you suggest we code first? < 1176003494 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE ABRASAX < 1176003497 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what's this about Abrasax? < 1176003501 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 3 minutes, I start my daily Japanese homework. < 1176003502 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that another suggested name? < 1176003517 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and Sophia. So we shall call it by both names... and many more that we like. < 1176003519 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about YMMV as the name? < 1176003529 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE NAMES ARE ABUNDANT... DESPITE THE POPULAR BELIEF THAT ALL THE GOOD ONES ARE TAKEN. < 1176003531 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turning a subset of pdf files into PDFDoc < 1176003540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet my mother's Volkswagen? < 1176003562 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: so "Abrasax" is another suggested name? < 1176003593 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.. I'm using it for the sourceforge name for now. < 1176003661 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Uh... think small :P < 1176003665 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're creating a Sourceforge thingy for it? < 1176003684 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parser, stacks, internal object representation... < 1176003688 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: the first step to that would be parsing < 1176003689 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1176003693 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws dextrose tablets at GregorR < 1176003694 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Your Mileage May Vary. < 1176003736 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because who said OS's are equally lovable? :P < 1176003747 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I've never liked the categorization of people into classes like "developer" and "end user". < 1176003754 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :converting pdf strings to strings, converting dictionaries to hash tables... < 1176003804 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of modular system for adding compression, encryption < 1176003815 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: It's OS Communism! < 1176003822 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COSmunism! < 1176003832 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...we sort of keep te "end user" dump by classifying them as an "end user" and doing everything possible to prevent them from exposure to computer-related stuff. < 1176003848 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I say we defer compression and encryption for later. < 1176003850 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dump/dumb < 1176003853 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: yes < 1176003878 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying we need to allow for a way to add the "filters" cleanly later < 1176003887 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh, I see. < 1176003901 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176003909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we can just as internal objects around to filters. < 1176003947 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do you suggest we tokenize this, in 2 minutes? < 1176003963 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I leave. < 1176003985 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as/pass/ < 1176003997 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with the cross reference table, build all the indirect objects < 1176004010 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, yeah... no huge monolithic kernel for this one... too messy. < 1176004031 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to ESOS? < 1176004032 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use indexes into an array for those when we get to them in the doc < 1176004050 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Huh? < 1176004066 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Talk here. I start Japanese now. < 1176004070 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: find me a platform for it and we can start work building an operating system for it. < 1176004071 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you some time later :P < 1176004085 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: x86 ? < 1176004093 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: x86 is not esoteric. < 1176004104 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: ..... :P < 1176004112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: subleq OISC < 1176004118 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I wouldn't worry about being esoteric in the hardware. < 1176004128 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what's subleq? < 1176004140 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "platform" need not refer to the hardware. < 1176004140 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtract and branch if negative < 1176004150 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a vm a while ago, fun to play with < 1176004163 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: is that URISC? < 1176004173 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can easily be esoteric (and Discordian... which works SURPRISINGLY well with esoteric) in the emergent behavior of our stale and bland platform < 1176004183 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: PM me your ideas on tokenizing, and maybe we can get a basic tokenizer written up today. < 1176004191 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SYSTEM... THE HIVEMIND... IT IS THE CENTER OF EVERYTHING AND IT IS DISPERESED WIDELY. < 1176004210 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run away! It's COSmunism! < 1176004212 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax... < 1176004219 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I've only read up to the objects used in the pdf file < 1176004229 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then read more :) < 1176004240 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tokenizing is pretty simple < 1176004243 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I certainly don't see anything called Abrasax on SourceForge right now. < 1176004256 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive for arrays and dictionarys < 1176004264 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it okay if I call it SourceForce every once in a while, or SourgeForce or SourgeForge? < 1176004299 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sourceforge asks a bunch of questions... all of them optional though < 1176004307 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like programming languages, what we're doing etc. < 1176004350 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are optional? < 1176004373 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does SourceForge.net offer a fancy public domain thing? < 1176004383 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it would be nice to have a virtual machine language that we could compile everything to... so everything can work together despite being different programming languages. < 1176004386 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176004423 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yeah. . . < 1176004429 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the Java Virtual Machine. < 1176004451 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I don't like the sound of it. < 1176004465 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that's because I have a silly bias toward Java. < 1176004473 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the virtual architecture which Java is usually compiled to. < 1176004489 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Parrot... on the shallow basis that it has a cooler name. < 1176004495 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other languages *can* be compiled to it, but aren't commonly. . . < 1176004504 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could even write in JVM ASM if you wished. < 1176004530 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what's URISC < 1176004541 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC is One Instruction Set Computer < 1176004545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1176004547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1176004556 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either way... the main way I think we could make it easier for programming languages to communicate togethr is via some high-level structures in the OS. Like instead of just passing around bytes we pass around lniked lists and hash tables. I've got lots of ideas for inter-process communication here. < 1176004556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m the n/m < 1176004580 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: doesn't Esolang have something about URISC? < 1176004647 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has become a fan of variants of record-based IPC < 1176004653 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a builtin versioning system. < 1176004672 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that's all filesystem/process-level stuff... not the bare bones. < 1176004684 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: no < 1176004693 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: doesn't Wikipedia have something about URISC? < 1176004703 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably one of the first things we'd want is a way to spit stuff out to a terminal... for breadcrumbing/testing OS stuff. < 1176004712 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it redirects to OISC < 1176004719 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so URISC = OISC < 1176004852 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1176004866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the OISC page mention URISC? < 1176004901 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: a way to spit stuff out to a terminal... is this YAOS/Sophia/Abrasax we're talking about? < 1176004909 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1176004920 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... a way to shoot stuff out... so we can test stuff. < 1176004939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cannon! < 1176004955 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we'll want to plan some stuff out < 1176004966 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens Notepad < 1176004990 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about Multiboot and modules? < 1176005032 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiboot is a standardised interface for a bootloader to access an OS kernel. < 1176005056 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's main user is the Hurd. . . < 1176005093 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Multiboot for an OS project is an easy way to make the kernel bootable via GRUB. < 1176005105 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel, upon starting, loads all its modules as drivers. < 1176005113 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other way being to use the Linux bootloader interface) < 1176005133 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe one of its modules would act as a config file. < 1176005147 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176005153 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that config file would tell what to do with the rest of the modules. < 1176005249 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, it's time for bed. Does everyone have some idea of my email address? < 1176005287 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, do we want everything Public Domain? If so, then I don't think we can use a lot of GNU stuff... which is fine with me - I like making new stuff. < 1176005367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: we'll make the core stuff public domain and find a way to add the GNU stuff, then we'll gradually eliminate the GNU stuff in favor of public domain stuff. < 1176005378 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here's the description I gave the Sourceforge people... < 1176005379 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax is basically just an open source OS kernel being developed by a hoard of time bandits. Some goals include general weirdness, cool ideas, high-level inter-process communication, a versioned filesystem, full Unicode support, complete Public-Domain-ness, and general awesomeness. We're still mostly planning in planning. < 1176005412 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "horde". < 1176005421 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1176005424 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling is for geeks < 1176005428 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I see you have lots of your own ideas. < 1176005472 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... I've been thinking about this a lot. ...any of them that sound like something you wouldn't like? < 1176005549 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :General weirdness may be iffy, cool ideas are probably fine but somewhat iffy, high-level inter-process communication may be iffy, a versioned filesystem is a little iffy, full Unicode support may be a litle iffy, and complete Public-Domain-ness would be generally awesome. < 1176005570 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, general weirdness is iffy. < 1176005602 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they all sound great........ which is obvious - since I wrote them. What all did you have in mind? < 1176005678 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Principle of least authority, Linux application compatibility... < 1176005696 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of a versioned file system... you can revert changes easily. and high-level structures sounds cool to me so you can do things like output hash tables. < 1176005699 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, compatibility < 1176005719 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why output hash tables when you can serialize them and send them as plain old bytes? < 1176005720 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, sounds great to me. compatibility hasn't been much of a concern for me... but nothing that I'm against < 1176005728 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I actually know that "serialize" means what I think it does. < 1176005730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: IPC is usually acheived by shared memory. you can put hash tables in memory < 1176005735 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ...because that takes more work? < 1176005736 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versioned file system... that one's an idea. < 1176005747 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: very true.\ < 1176005755 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but versioned file system would be cool < 1176005758 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, well then fuck usually. :P < 1176005768 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's implement EVERYTHING! < 1176005772 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED < 1176005785 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And find a way to do all this in a microkernel. < 1176005786 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all for it actually... I'm only lazy when it comes to stuff I don't want to do. < 1176005803 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme think... kernel loads drivers according to a config file... < 1176005815 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. Processes need to be able to register services. < 1176005822 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be neat to have finer-grained execute controls < 1176005830 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard drive access might be a service, for example. < 1176005834 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: to have what? < 1176005863 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux uses a single bit to control execution (executable or not executable) < 1176005867 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, with a microkernel... you basically just have memory and process stuff as "the kernel"... while everything else (like file system manipulation) as separate processes < 1176005879 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invoking certain services with certain arguments might be a privilege. < 1176005892 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: would handling privileges also be a separate process? < 1176005892 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finer grained would be "allow this proccess to execute but don't let it write to any disk" < 1176005914 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread, hmmm... I kind of consider priveledges a form of "authority". < 1176005917 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... ihope < 1176005921 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may well mean invoking a process everytime anything makes a system call. < 1176005922 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... yes. < 1176005937 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: what's this about privileges and authority? < 1176005940 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nope. You just have them as processes that are always around. < 1176005942 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, what did I say to the contrary? < 1176005949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit for network access... < 1176005972 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: well, yes, but you'd use the process every time something makes a system call. < 1176005985 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, oh... accidentally implied that we were using privledges... which I kind of consider a form of control... and/or security depending on how anarchist I'm feeling. < 1176006021 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Gmail's ihope127, by the way, in case anybody wants to email me for some reason... like operating system development. < 1176006038 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: the operating system is definitely going to have privileges. < 1176006059 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also, to prevent forkbombs and such, every process will pretty much be responsible for its "children". < 1176006075 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a process invokes another process, chances are they're going to share time slices. < 1176006086 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1176006111 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I see the shell working something like a Smalltalk-ian programming language. < 1176006118 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...kind of io-ish. < 1176006147 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definetely with more features than UNIX-style pass-strings-around shell scripting. < 1176006216 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I've just never seen much need for them... other than to keep other people out of your stuff... and like - protecting access from mean hacker-types. < 1176006238 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that's because no one else uses this computer... and I've never have a security breach. < 1176006288 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: privileges are very necessary. < 1176006302 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every process must have a set of privileges. < 1176006317 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... probably... I've just never found use for them myself. < 1176006336 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my email is adamadamadamamiadam@gmail (it's long... but probably easy to remember) < 1176006416 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, what kind of priveledges? I usually think of priveledge systems as ways to keep me out of messing with shit.. < 1176006432 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adam adam adam ami adam? < 1176006447 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: every system call is a privilege. < 1176006454 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And every process has privileges. < 1176006469 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's to make it so that running malicious software doesn't end up doing anything bad. < 1176006476 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by malicious, I might mean buggy/ < 1176006510 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176006541 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... you could just make everything fairly unbreakable to start with... < 1176006561 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as everything is open-ended unless explicitly blocked. < 1176006576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm cool with priveledges. < 1176006615 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "everything is open-ended unless explicitly blocked" meaning "if you run it, it can do anything unless you say otherwise"? < 1176006630 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much. < 1176006632 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you make something immune to formatting the hard drive, say? < 1176006650 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- I don't know really. < 1176006668 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like the principle of least authority. < 1176006682 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's that again? < 1176006714 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, programs aren't allowed to do anything that's potentially harmful. < 1176006728 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... originally I thought it meant something like "principle of no authority"./ < 1176006738 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you run it, you're granting it some CPU time, memory, and maybe hard disk space and a slot in your window manager. < 1176006751 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...OH NOES... A SCHISM IN THE OSDEVERS PRINCIPLES. < 1176006761 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1176006791 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much in comparison to say... Windows or Linux? < 1176006813 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to be able to do whatever he wants. < 1176006823 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: then sudo is for you. < 1176006840 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do Windows and Linux CPU time distribution things work? < 1176006845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i understand it, one of the ideas behind the principle is that even if someone manages to break into your program, they cannot get control of anything the program doesn't normally use < 1176006855 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as something isn't completely blocked from access... then having some security features is nice. < 1176006877 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: it's not like you'd want to run a program and then not grant it any CPU time. < 1176006888 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor grant it CPU time but not the ability to make any system calls at all. < 1176006910 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want the program to do nothing but sit there and compute. < 1176006944 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the securest computer in the world is also the most useless computer in the world. < 1176007012 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet Babbages computer was more secure than any computer today!\ < 1176007040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being unbuilt _is_ pretty secure, you have to admit. < 1176007043 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay then... I see no problem with having configurable security stuff then... I usually don't reformat my hard drive on a regular basis... and as long as I still have free access to everything then it doesn't matter to me. < 1176007046 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: yes, well, we don't want the most secure computer in the world. < 1176007059 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. :) < 1176007070 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there will in fact be a way for you to do whatever you want, as long as it's not configured to keep everyone out. < 1176007082 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor configured to keep you out. < 1176007088 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely. < 1176007100 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANARCHYOS!!! < 1176007118 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1176007164 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, basically I like microkernals because they're not huge and messy... < 1176007176 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can manage a microkernel. < 1176007192 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So let's see here... kernel loads processes. We need the kernel to handle processes. < 1176007200 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- < 1176007214 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has to handle time slices, loading of processes, calling of processes, and system calls. < 1176007224 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And handling system calls means handling privileges. < 1176007226 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it need to handle inter-process commmunication. IPC is really something I'd like to focus on. < 1176007246 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPC could be provided using a service. < 1176007254 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll also want the kernel to handle services. < 1176007268 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they the same thing? < 1176007273 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think that's just about everything our kernel needs. < 1176007276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't what the same thing? < 1176007299 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always interpreted service/daemon to mean "stuff that spends most of its time sitting around making itself available" < 1176007305 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a process. < 1176007334 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service = something which a process makes available and can be invoked by other processes. < 1176007355 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just make all processes like that? < 1176007366 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... give the processes handy names. < 1176007367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could invoke the processes themselves, yes. < 1176007392 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if you want a process to provide multiple services? < 1176007416 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple names. < 1176007417 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A service is essentially some type of interface for something. < 1176007446 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax - to put it into shell parlance - might be something like "processname message" < 1176007459 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it could be. < 1176007474 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... if there was an "fs" process... that did the filesystem. < 1176007475 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means services = IPC? < 1176007507 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do "fs cd foo/bar" or "fs list (foo/bar, foo/bar2, foo/bar3)" < 1176007520 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, we have to give it a GUID. Call it {f4f5ff04-45eb-40d1-b206-63913b5468d6}. < 1176007532 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1176007534 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1176007540 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds uh... brilliant? < 1176007540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we don't want collisions, do we? < 1176007549 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess calling it "fs" isn't a bad idea. < 1176007566 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see why not... collisions can be handled by some sort of priveledge. < 1176007586 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work? < 1176007615 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if some malicious HackerHarrison tries to split off a process named "fs"... some nifty NameLessPriveledge of the existing fs can keep that from happening. < 1176007636 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just keep process naming privileged. < 1176007642 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a "prevent name override" priv. < 1176007665 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess you'd have the kernel issue random, boring names to whoever needs one. < 1176007669 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could go the other way around... other processes can have a "override names" priv < 1176007683 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you have the option to stuff like... create a new filesystem process. < 1176007695 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what if someone sets up an fs privilege and someone else uses it before the real fs can kill it? < 1176007721 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I understand what you mean. < 1176007782 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we want this operating system to be airtight. < 1176007790 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"secure" is pretty meaningless < 1176007838 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to processes by number is pretty crappy of UNIX... I must say. < 1176007855 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: is it? < 1176007865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone can set up an fs privilege then they shouldn't pass it around to someone non-trusted. < 1176007877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be quantified, "secure from what?" < 1176007881 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but UNIX doesn't focus much on processes... it puts more focus on files. < 1176007913 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: indeed, isn't "everything's a file" some sort of UNIX philosophy? < 1176007920 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...SOME SORT. < 1176007963 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SAY WE ADOPT A "everything reminds SevenInchBread of Smalltalk-like objects"... WHICH WE SEEM TO BE DOING QUITE WELL. < 1176007985 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, this isn't all too different from letting processes register services that other processes can use... < 1176007991 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...actually more like IO. < 1176008008 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, you can access the IP stack by writing to a file in /proc < 1176008013 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too different at all... processes are pretty much services... from my experience. < 1176008028 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you can access the what? < 1176008034 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: the network < 1176008039 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176008043 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything as a file makes a lot of sense < 1176008053 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do stuff... when given some input. UNIX and Windows just do it by spitting out a process each call... but you could easily have the processes sitting around performing actions as they receive them. < 1176008082 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: how about we go with an "everything is a service" philosophy? < 1176008092 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "everything is a file", if you want to go that route. < 1176008094 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1176008098 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall not permit it. < 1176008102 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTUALLY < 1176008109 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything makes sense as a file < 1176008120 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall go with the "everything is something" phiolosophy. < 1176008120 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe graphics < 1176008141 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the capital letters indicate sarcasm? < 1176008150 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling Perl-esque... and in backlash of all this "everything is " nonsense. < 1176008160 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nope. < 1176008183 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph33r the COSmunists!!!! < 1176008187 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to Japanese studies. < 1176008199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Don't forget to brainstorm more on ppdf.... :( < 1176008206 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PERSON, AND THAT IS A ROCK... BUT I'M ALSO CARBON... EVERYTHING IS ANYTHING YOU FUCKING WANT IT TO BE. THAT'S HOW IDENTITY WORKS. < 1176008206 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "everything is something"? So maybe filesystem access is a service while networking is a system call, and miscellaneous inter-process communication is a file? < 1176008227 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I got nothing < 1176008239 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I see system calls working as messages to services... which all have convient names attached to them. < 1176008242 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ... :( < 1176008249 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of Smalltalk-ish... < 1176008263 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC! < 1176008268 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176008302 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: eh. < 1176008324 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we discuss this via email? It's midnight and there seems to be school tomorrow. < 1176008342 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :school tommorow? < 1176008353 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Sunday today? < 1176008355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tommorow's sunday < 1176008356 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Do you want to change the project ...? :( < 1176008376 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fs del (one, two, buckle, my shoe)" ...which is a system call in typical parlance... but basically it would just be input to the fs process... with the comma-separate list thing being an actual data-structure being sent here. :) < 1176008380 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, sure. < 1176008394 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, it's on the borderline between Sunday and Monday right now? < 1176008416 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's not what I meant < 1176008421 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Oh. < 1176008435 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: you must live in crazy other-side-of-the-world land < 1176008467 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does crazy other-side-of-the-world land include Michigan? < 1176008478 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176008491 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be deranged, if you live in michigan < 1176008494 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmmm... actually fs might just receive "del" and then output something to handle like... the (one, two, buckle, my, shoe) < 1176008494 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling my clock is wrong. < 1176008506 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's midnight here... eastern time. < 1176008517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: it's eastern time over there? < 1176008523 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> Georgia? < 1176008526 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Sunday/Monday or Saturday/Sunday? < 1176008540 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Saturday/Sunday < 1176008544 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1176008545 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...thank god. < 1176008546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 0001 sunday morning in michigan < 1176008546 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MENTALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE NOT ABLE TO COMPREHEND TIMEZONE!!! < 1176008553 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'd be going back to school tomorrow. < 1176008581 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate school SO MUCH < 1176008587 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I say we get rid of timezone... they were only good back when we had trains and because people liked there clocks to look the same in different parts of the world. < 1176008603 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176008620 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and a freind are going to drop out and start a commune < 1176008622 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...now they just confuse the hell out of people. < 1176008653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean we should go back to local time? < 1176008664 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, I've had plans at separating from the US for some time. TO CREATE A DISCORDIAN AND HUMOR-BASED NATION... THAT WILL ENFORCE ITS BULLSHIT IDEOLOGY ON THE WORLD. < 1176008676 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... just have like... one time. < 1176008679 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176008688 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid ChatZilla. < 1176008698 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, apparently my computer thinks it's December. < 1176008699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be different from the US? < 1176008703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1176008703 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that today < 1176008707 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s Saturday. < 1176008715 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1176008721 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope sounds like me on summer vacation. < 1176008724 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if its daylight at 3 AM in the UK then world will not implode < 1176008730 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``Darn it, it's Tuesday? I thought it was Sunday :('' < 1176008749 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it will SevenInchBread. < 1176008756 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adjusts his clock to April and one minute, 30 seconds forward < 1176008775 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no no it's alright... talking about how much the US sucks is a great way to get brownie points with any United Statesian. < 1176008797 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well... unless they're like... a freakish unpatriotic USA-lover person. < 1176008797 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION casts his vote for "US American" < 1176008814 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. You can't be a patriot and like the current administration. < 1176008821 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I like United Statesian and USAn < 1176008821 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there is in fact not any school today/tomorrow. < 1176008830 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations ihope. < 1176008852 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But regardless, I'll be going to bed now, so if anybody wants to say anything, it'll have to be via email. < 1176008858 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks oppression of freedom should be done with A GOOD CHUCKLE < 1176008870 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, -nod- alrighty... HAVE A GOOD DAY. < 1176008898 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think once this operating system's written, we'll look back and say "wow, that was easy". Maybe. < 1176008900 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could get a mailing list < 1176008902 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to look cool < 1176008907 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could, yes. < 1176008912 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll go by the way of ESOS. < 1176008913 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or just like... a forum thing. < 1176008913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i guess the bush administration may not be big on the humor part. < 1176008914 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks. < 1176008919 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mailing lists are more useful when there's more than two people. < 1176008927 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with three we can get by easily. < 1176008938 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, not without me pushing for it forever... this has been a serious project on my mind for some time now. < 1176008946 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And four and five. Once you get people joining too fast to keep track of them all, you need a mailing list or something. < 1176008959 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mailing list, a forum, a chatroom, and a wiki. < 1176008964 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Will this be serious? I'll join then. < 1176008966 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thinking a mialing list would be nice so information doesn't get all fragmented. < 1176008970 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone knows what's going on. < 1176008973 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to already have #yaos registered for this. :-) < 1176008976 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Only on the condition that we support some non-C language at a basic level. < 1176008986 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see the letters ``yao'' I think ``yaoi''. < 1176008993 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, ...probably. Since I don't know C all tha twell. < 1176008998 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I register #aspirin and #sophia as well? < 1176009002 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's yaoi? < 1176009014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspirin? < 1176009015 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :male-male hentai. < 1176009016 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The genre of Boys-love in Japanese Animation. < 1176009023 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net always hentai. < 1176009024 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or that < 1176009032 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, don't blame the bishounen for being hawt. They just are. < 1176009036 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1176009051 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just like the Staff of Eucalyptus. < 1176009059 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eucalyptus! < 1176009062 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a great OS name! < 1176009064 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Eye of Tapioca. < 1176009068 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with IRC... only the people around to hear you get the message. < 1176009071 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: very. < 1176009077 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a mailing list you can be sure everyone gets the word. < 1176009085 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something you say when you don't remember what the word actually is. < 1176009119 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you program in SevenInchBread ? < 1176009132 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, when I said "now" there, I probably meant the now that's actually now. Send each other (and me) lots of emails so that this will suddenly become a real project. < 1176009150 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python... but I feel oddly confident that I could work with a host of other languages... even though I've never really used them. < 1176009154 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's an odd feeling. < 1176009164 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I'm sure I'd suck in all of them from the start. < 1176009191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still does not understand what aspirin is a mispeling of. < 1176009193 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1176009200 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A spring. < 1176009221 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll take the sourceforge people about 1 or 2 days to reject our project. < 1176009238 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're CakeProphet. < 1176009255 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googlecode doesn't require approval... but it doesn't have the public domain option. < 1176009260 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python: For Idiots and Cakeprophets. < 1176009268 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, I'm a poly-psuedonymous being, my friend. < 1176009281 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Now I really leave but, is there any project you'd rather do than a PDF Viewer that's moderately complex? < 1176009285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSEUDO!!!! < 1176009289 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, Yeah... despite being waaay too familiar with it... I hate it completely. < 1176009310 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OERJAN, THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS NOT FIXED < 1176009315 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A NEW WORD < 1176009319 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that I made up. < 1176009327 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: not that i can think of right now < 1176009342 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: :9 < 1176009342 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:( < 1176009364 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, does anyone here have any ideas for moderately complex practical projects? < 1176009366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only fixed in the sense "corrupt" < 1176009368 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword: Practical. < 1176009386 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...a MUD < 1176009391 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is working on a MUD. < 1176009428 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1176009437 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUDs are for NUBs. < 1176009472 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it reminds me of like... the filesystem part of an OS... minus all the heavy-duty hardware and memory shit... and all the speed concerns... < 1176009480 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and on a network. So basically almost nothing like an OS. < 1176009500 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread--; < 1176009528 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a hierarchy of things within other things.... and some commands. so it's vaguely like a virtual filesystem. < 1176009541 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like a .... a ... a .... game? < 1176009544 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps audibly. < 1176009557 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats Sukoshi for BREAKFAST < 1176009564 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT BELITTLE MY HOBBY < 1176009570 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MUD IS A PIECE OF ART. < 1176009575 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :games--; < 1176009576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1176009588 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1176009591 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you that < 1176009601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakfast? i thought you were in the US... < 1176009609 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in return... you have to call befunge a board game. < 1176009645 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ...the US has breakfast... just not at regular intervals. < 1176009655 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't eat breakfast today... < 1176009667 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176009743 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall return briefly. < 1176009998 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone else have any practical ideas that don't involve eating the discussioners along the way? < 1176010161 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドライの手の中まで! < 1176010566 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドライ? < 1176010595 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dry. < 1176010607 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, from the middle of dry hands?!? < 1176011211 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahp. < 1176011218 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a quote from a song, heh. < 1176011267 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1176011277 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theo de raadt is like a little kid < 1176011288 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all are when we're next to the things we love. < 1176011298 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start hopping around when I see a baloon and some magnets. < 1176011315 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like tike induce a charge in the balloon and then spin the magnets around to cause the balloon to move. < 1176011318 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really fun. < 1176011341 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I like to < 1176011389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sad that licensing is such a big issue in FS < 1176011400 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yah, I forgot what happened about Reiser. < 1176011411 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He made a 5 minute blip on our local news some months ago. < 1176012012 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets up an Abrasax mailing list < 1176012460 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book gives a very good argument for OOP < 1176012483 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It does. < 1176012589 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've see very good arguments for both OOP and no-OOP < 1176012606 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP just shouldn't be overused < 1176012609 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...java < 1176012676 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... forced OOP can lead to overcomplicated designs... but used just right it can make really simple designs. < 1176012683 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about SmallTalk? < 1176012742 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm... I don't know... I always think of Smalltalk doing OOP the "right way"... at least with the builtin stuff. What people add on to it might be something totally different. < 1176012768 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Python's logging module is a very good reminder of when OO can go to far. < 1176012863 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has Loggers, Handlers, LogRecords, and Formatters, < 1176012875 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much what Java is.e < 1176012877 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is. < 1176012879 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...an entire class for log format info. < 1176012889 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: that module's pretty bad < 1176012896 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when it just stores a single string. < 1176012948 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I first saw the logging module it permanently tied a little ribbon around me... reminding me of how horrible OO can get. < 1176012955 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...never forget. < 1176013007 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... there's also Filters, the Manager. < 1176013012 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and < 1176013066 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/AbraSophia/ < 1176013121 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176013452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, dynamic loading < 1176014559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gsvensk" < 1176015146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176016840 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176016968 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176017816 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :necisito projectos buenos < 1176017858 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'proyectos' < 1176017861 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'necesito' < 1176017885 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right < 1176018253 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176019199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176019200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176020033 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176020055 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176020436 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176025184 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-184.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176028950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176039788 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176042714 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176042914 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's certainly one way to do it. < 1176043614 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's certainly not a bad way, either. < 1176044048 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176044092 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176045808 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders system calls and services < 1176046011 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176046488 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176046524 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176046684 0 :oklopol!n=villsalo@194.251.102.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176048769 0 :jix__!n=jix@host-091-096-186-130.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176048798 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176051129 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176051226 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded < 1176051245 0 :ais523!n=chatzill@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176051258 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176051267 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176051439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now known as ais523 < 1176051453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it would let me type that without distinguishing it in some way < 1176051468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, it shows up styled differently anyway < 1176051488 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, /me generally shows up differently. < 1176051568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, what's been happening to the esoteric OS idea that's been popping up in the logs now and again < 1176051573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/\?/ < 1176051614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm having Internet access problems at the moment, so can't come online as often as I'd like and have resorted to logreading (which I do anyway)) < 1176051710 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, nobody seems to have decided on an esoteric platform. < 1176051742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the C-INTERCAL distribution there were notes about making a microprocessor that ran INTERCAL natively < 1176051749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't think anyone ever managed that < 1176053342 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176055744 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1176058272 0 :jix__!n=jix@host-091-096-186-130.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176058455 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176058517 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176058612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176059724 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176061389 0 :atrapado!i=opened@247.Red-81-47-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176061583 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176063749 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176063760 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176064072 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176064262 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066145 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-29-3.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066332 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176066375 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066499 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176066549 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066570 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176066980 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-035-247.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176067029 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176067236 0 :jix_____!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176067248 0 :jix_____!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176067291 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1176067843 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176068032 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176068361 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176070220 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176070859 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176070910 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176071228 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ShadowHntr < 1176072495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC looks fantastic < 1176072538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC? < 1176072543 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C. < 1176072561 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's C-acting-like-smalltalk. < 1176073000 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not apple's < 1176073120 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176073469 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the synchronization code is nice < 1176073488 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any object can be a semaphore < 1176073605 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"pinj timeout" < 1176073707 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@synchronized(someobject){ code that uses someobject} < 1176073865 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sick >.<" < 1176074033 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I was under the impression that Objective C was designed by Apple ... at the very least, Apple <3 ObjC < 1176074094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i understand, they use a weird mixture of C, C++ and ObjC these days, and it's quite horrible. < 1176074864 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176075023 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmmm... < 1176075032 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand the difference between a service and a process. < 1176075167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in principle several processes could handle the same service, and vice versa. < 1176075207 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work? < 1176075228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a service is what the client sees. a process is a way of implementing various tasks, including services. < 1176075254 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1176075450 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would the service know which process to delegate the task to? < 1176075458 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always thought of it as a one-to-one kind of mapping. < 1176075554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in practice there may usually be a single process handling the initial connection, unless it is truly distributed. < 1176075592 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- that makes sense. < 1176075610 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to do for processes what UNIX did with files. < 1176075665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a ...? < 1176075688 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no... I mean... give processes a hierarchy and refer to them by name. < 1176075709 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using numbers to refer to processes just doesn't sound... very useful. < 1176075728 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -f /proc/init < 1176075731 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boom < 1176075732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named pipes exist and are slightly similar. < 1176075732 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1176075819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially processes attached to the filesystem, with reading/writing going to the process stdin/out < 1176075856 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very secondary though. < 1176075920 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows parlance, a service is something like a daemon in unix. < 1176076112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like something unixes can probably already do, although they aren't optimized for it. < 1176076154 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it could < 1176076173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic links to /proc, maybe < 1176076212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not versed in the details of this. < 1176076245 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be harder to map out processes in a directory structure based on childness. < 1176076349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a more fundamental approach, i guess forks/execs should take a filename argument to place each process. < 1176076487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and persistence would be a natural part of this. < 1176076664 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A service here is an interface provided by a process. < 1176076694 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A process can register a service, then other processes can request them.