< 1175385635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: See the Minsky machine article on the wiki < 1175385727 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to have two? < 1175385759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the last point < 1175385768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1175385786 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175385799 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neat < 1175385960 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it would be nice if they didn't have to be multiplied/divided by an arbitrary constant < 1175386308 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175386335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_machine#Two-counter_machines_are_Turing_powerful is related. < 1175386414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the third step can be alternatively seen as reducing to a single counter with extra operations. < 1175386923 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175387344 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1175387348 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stack as a number < 1175388829 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@pool-71-126-176-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175389159 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175390446 0 :Sgeo!n=sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175391356 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175392012 0 :dog4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"over and out." < 1175392818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow :< < 1175392840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be day somewhere :\ < 1175392842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1175392852 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the foo < 1175392868 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~raw privmsg #esoteric :foo < 1175392868 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1175393320 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175394408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~raw privmsg oklopol :bar < 1175394426 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not registered < 1175394444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i even use raw? < 1175394448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~raw privmsg #esoteric :bar < 1175394455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1175394457 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1175394469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar") < 1175394470 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar < 1175394475 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1175394475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.raw'gf,kbd) < 1175394475 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string < 1175394501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too slow... maybe it's time to sleep :) < 1175394505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------> < 1175394529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm who am i kidding, i just drank almost a liter of coffee :F < 1175394571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try anyway, night --------> < 1175394585 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering about extracting caffeine from tea/coffee < 1175394609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be cheaper than pills < 1175394615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1175394617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not likely < 1175394656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, coffee. _that's_ what i need. < 1175394718 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read something about dissolving it in ethanol, filtering the solution, evaporating, recrystalizing the residue in a solution of ethanol and water < 1175394799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that those pills probably _are_ extracted from coffee.. < 1175394834 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The method used there is probably not feasible on the small scale < 1175395228 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t < 1175395231 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function pointers < 1175395236 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in less than 200 bytes of code < 1175395240 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/orWqgE84.html < 1175395272 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175395276 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my output is smaller than my source :P < 1175395331 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1175395356 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have made a smaller example < 1175395365 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy... < 1175395367 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like my print function < 1175395373 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves me work ;) < 1175395385 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function pointers in asm are just the address where the code starts, no? < 1175395403 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less... < 1175395440 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I did was reserve a word for the address of the function I wanted to call < 1175395458 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first I set it to the address of the HELLO proc < 1175395465 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when I compiled) < 1175395479 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then later in my MAIN proc, I switch it with the address of GOODBYE < 1175395486 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since I call it the same way both times < 1175395490 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, call [VMSG] < 1175395503 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've effectively got a function pointer < 1175395509 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175395527 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could replace the functionality of VMSG at any point < 1175395548 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175395553 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why I started working on asm again < 1175395554 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1175395560 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much easier to use this than C < 1175395582 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for the print stuff < 1175395585 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff sucks < 1175395595 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just for the function pointer stuff < 1175395598 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so much easier < 1175395631 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1175395678 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1175395684 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1175395747 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175395800 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand... I do weird stuff < 1175395816 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function pointers are straightforward in c < 1175395831 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said C++ < 1175395833 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1175395858 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is almost a superset of C < 1175395888 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I guess I mean is, a lot of things like changing around the interfaces of functions < 1175395915 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is just a mess anyway < 1175395926 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a decent amount of it < 1175395940 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, they put too many things in the same place without thinking how all the pieces interact < 1175395947 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(patching the language) < 1175395982 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates, multiple inheritance, variadic functions from C, etc < 1175396006 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1175396014 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found some behavior that is just *weird* < 1175396027 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like C < 1175396028 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it uses so many features of the language at the same time < 1175396033 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have no idea what it is doing < 1175396066 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if I can find my code... < 1175396078 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to do with operator overloading and templates, I think... < 1175396135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs_ you've already shown some pretty weird stuff :) < 1175396149 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew, templates < 1175396162 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High level languages should be dynically typed < 1175396251 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I showing up as Figs_ again? < 1175396254 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1175396261 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix it? < 1175396295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1175396317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i'll retry the sleeping thing --------> < 1175396490 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1175396536 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm damnit < 1175396539 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it < 1175396955 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175397234 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1175397975 0 :gg_!n=gg@71.237.177.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175398041 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1175398102 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1175398190 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oregon? < 1175398300 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or New Jersey? < 1175398346 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DC? < 1175398368 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virginia, but pretty close to DC, yeah < 1175398394 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oregon and NJ aren't that close though :) < 1175398400 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175398412 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, Oregon. < 1175398424 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trace route gives me eugine, and then something, and then a firewall? and then you < 1175398446 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I looked it up, I got new jersey :P < 1175398519 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, O.o < 1175398543 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get Comcast Region NJ when I use locators :P < 1175398543 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1175398613 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1175398614 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1175398618 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1175398619 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1175398660 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shouldn't make any difference :) < 1175398662 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1175398690 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think < 1175398693 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"とても変な夢を見た、あの20分眠間に。" < 1175398708 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about whether it's OR or NJ. < 1175398728 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1175398730 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION envies Sukoshi's Japanese IME magic < 1175398738 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're talking about two different things < 1175398739 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1175398759 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1175398765 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is bored < 1175398790 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is bored, but hungry too. < 1175398794 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :\ < 1175398803 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was that way until recently < 1175398811 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I remedied it with some yogurt < 1175398825 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm just bored < 1175398842 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably finish one of the projects I've started < 1175398844 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hmm < 1175398848 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is bad about that < 1175398872 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get a bit distracted by tangents :P < 1175398893 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why he is criticising himself in public < 1175398902 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tangents? as in math? < 1175398905 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1175398907 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175398923 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like < 1175398969 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working on a program to chat online... and then going off to write a compiler, getting bored working on the parser, so start working on asm to impliment function pointers... < 1175399012 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just finished that last one < 1175399020 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably finish the first bi < 1175399021 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bit < 1175399025 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since its the easiest < 1175399031 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've been working on it since January < 1175399067 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just really don't like programming in GM any more :P < 1175399072 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too limiting < 1175399079 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GM? < 1175399083 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Maker < 1175399096 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it. < 1175399100 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people haven't < 1175399105 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.gamemaker.nl < 1175399120 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're going through a little insanity at the moment with version 7.0 < 1175399142 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using it since about 3.0 < 1175399149 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm about ready to move on < 1175399172 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it just does so much to reduce the complexity of apps... < 1175399182 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you find something you can't do < 1175399188 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it gets to be annoying as hell < 1175399205 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it has functions like, < 1175399220 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw_text("whatever string",x,y); < 1175399238 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to do anything with the window handling < 1175399253 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc etc < 1175399271 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has timers up to I think 10 or 12 built in for each object you define < 1175399278 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need them < 1175399293 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic game loop < 1175399307 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can modify the behavior if need be < 1175399321 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was designed for teaching programming concepts in an interesting way < 1175399336 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the community is basically pushing for it to become a general purpose dev tool < 1175399353 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably more than you ever cared to know :P < 1175399357 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1175399385 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh no it's good to know that... but I don't think I'll ever write a game (coz I'll probably never finish it!) < 1175399392 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if it's a "real" game. < 1175399404 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1175399408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I've seen game maker. < 1175399409 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I will < 1175399414 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks kind of weird... like graphical C. < 1175399414 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1175399422 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of is < 1175399436 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do the entire thing with buttons and drag and drop < 1175399460 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then move onto a scripting language inside once you need the more powerful features < 1175399477 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the community seems to be in the 10-20 range < 1175399497 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is 15 < 1175399500 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-college, and, in too many cases, pre-manners :P < 1175399514 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM VERY POLITE. :) :) :) < 1175399517 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175399521 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is 18 < 1175399527 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gg_? < 1175399533 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1175399567 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like a lot of stuff that GM does < 1175399575 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably since I learned how to program in it) < 1175399579 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1175399585 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to do a little bit more stumbling in firefox (that's how I ended up here anyway) before running for some food... < 1175399591 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... how did I start programming. < 1175399596 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's how I got here too :) < 1175399622 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like language design, it's a good place to be < 1175399624 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically just downloaded a Python interpreter... scanned through the turotial in a confused manner... and started playing around. < 1175399625 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda like this place, so I'll probably see you guys later. < 1175399629 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk ;) < 1175399645 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :P < 1175399650 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@CP) < 1175399662 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GM, each object effectively has code that gets executed each step (step event) < 1175399678 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are create events, destroy events, keyboard press/release/check events < 1175399685 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1175399699 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add 'methods' by defining user events < 1175399704 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the documentation on this isn't very good < 1175399708 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1175399710 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not very easy (I think) < 1175399719 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I have done it a couple times < 1175399739 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it effectively has 2 types of data < 1175399743 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings and reals < 1175399748 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rationals) < 1175399767 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Python I read up on Perl, Lisp, a little bit of C++, then I discovered esolangs, Smalltalk, Ruby, and then too many to count from there. < 1175399781 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many do you know well? < 1175399794 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually used anything but Python... but I'd like to move to something new once I'm not so busy with my current project (a MUD) < 1175399802 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1175399806 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I only know the surface of those langs. < 1175399815 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who is writing a MUD... < 1175399818 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... except esolangs... which are easy to pick up usually. < 1175399832 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175399841 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck? :P < 1175399845 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- < 1175399860 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is grand fun. < 1175399861 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know 2.5 languages well < 1175399872 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GML < 1175399875 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ < 1175399879 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C/C++) < 1175399895 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost never do anything with pure C < 1175399917 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would not be too hard for me to use it < 1175399927 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can code in Java... because I know C and C++ < 1175399931 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not well < 1175399936 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know it deeply < 1175399940 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of those languages I know quite well... I'm just completely unfamiliar with the builtin libraries and stuff. < 1175399951 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1175399962 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I do know enough to confuse my friend who is in AP Computer Science :P) < 1175399964 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read a lot of language specs... I can just never find the time to use them. < 1175399969 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do-while loops, ftw < 1175400012 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know enough about the C-derived languages that I can effectively work in any of them with a reference manual, google, and a decent amount of time < 1175400029 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by my standards of 'decent' ;P) < 1175400054 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started playing around with Prolog a bit a couple days to a week ago < 1175400058 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was hard < 1175400066 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm so used to C-derived programming < 1175400120 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly is a pain in the ass though < 1175400128 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are endless levels of it < 1175400163 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know enough that I can write interesting ways to do hello-world programs < 1175400188 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do those characters end up in the console? < 1175400197 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of know < 1175400205 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not enough to figure it out from scratch < 1175400266 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives you a bit more appreciation for what Windows actually gets right < 1175400380 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1175400384 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have an os < 1175400401 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is basically works with most hardware reasonable well < 1175400455 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security flaws aside < 1175400466 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mostly does what it is supposed to < 1175400496 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked to a friend of mine who was working on an OS < 1175400532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- OS is a pretty big chunk of features. :) < 1175400545 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: yes, but so does every other OS < 1175400555 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False. < 1175400571 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS doesn't do what windows does < 1175400578 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not much of an achievement to have a properly functioning multitasking OS < 1175400581 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's because DOS sucks. < 1175400601 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people say "windows sucks", they are not comparing it with DOS (usually) < 1175400606 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175400623 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, IMO, DOS *is* a better OS than Windows (from a usability standpoint). < 1175400623 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows is a multitasking operating system that sucks < 1175400631 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is not a multitasking operating system at all < 1175400636 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not very fair to compare them < 1175400680 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs, yeah... watch out here - we're fuill of Linux patriots. < 1175400685 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS does what you tell it to do. Windows does jack. < 1175400699 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's your properly functioning multitasking OS rivalling windows, lament? < 1175400702 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying DOS is bad < 1175400706 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mention Windows at all with a grain of positiveness and you shall be PUMMELED. :) < 1175400715 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament3: DOS is, for a singletasking OS, nice. . . < 1175400723 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the more modern FreeDOS. . . < 1175400740 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: It's called "UNIX". < 1175400744 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: i would strongly disagree with that, OS is shit, but i am not aware of any better alternatives, because the whole notion of a "single-tasking OS" is fairly ridiculous < 1175400772 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament3: Nah, single-tasking OSes were quite common in the early days of computing. < 1175400785 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: incorrect. < 1175400787 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*batch computing*cough* < 1175400797 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: you mean, early days of personal computers < 1175400814 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq, I meant _lament3_'s own personally written Windows rival < 1175400817 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is playing with generating audio in python < 1175400826 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: Ah. < 1175400832 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: why do you want me to write a windows rival? I don't understand your point. < 1175400858 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10[17:07:23] lament3: 01it's not much of an achievement to have a properly functioning multitasking OS < 1175400867 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now now everybody... let's turn the thermostate down a touch. :/ < 1175400878 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: you were saying how you appreciated how windows "got things right" in terms of talking to hardware < 1175400896 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs, writing an implementation of the UNIX kernel is considered a rite of passage for UNIX hackers. . . < 1175400909 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows sucks, Windows is great, Lament needs to write his own OS, Lament doesn't need to write his own OS, vim is superior to emacs and vice versa. ALL THINGS ARE TRUE IN THE FACE OF A WINDOWLESS ROOM. < 1175400909 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: first of all, it didn't - in that unix does it much more sanely; but second of all - it's not much of an achievement for something to do the very bare basics of what it's supposed to do < 1175400935 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the UNIX kernel, by itself, does multitasking (fine, needs a process to fork();. . .) < 1175400940 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: i'm not saying it's easy to write an OS < 1175400962 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: i'm saying it makes no sense to praise windows for something it absolutely has to do as an OS < 1175400991 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like saying "hey, it's a pretty crappy plane, but you have to give it credit - it flies". Of course it flies. Duh. It's a plane. < 1175401008 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1175401011 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think he was just praising Windows for existing... not necessarily for being better than other OSes. Let's all settle down a bit. < 1175401014 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is saying it doesn't take arcane wizardy to do so; just about a year or so's work for a single coder (for very simple definitions of "OS") < 1175401014 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was "good" :P < 1175401030 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that I'm impressed that it gets itself to work < 1175401047 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how much is going on and has to be dealt with < 1175401051 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: probably less than that. There're textbooks on how to do it. < 1175401081 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this conversation reminds me of "attachment causes suffering". < 1175401093 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? :( < 1175401096 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake, I'm not really praising windows :P < 1175401107 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament3: That's "from scratch, with nothing more than the ability to do ASM and C". < 1175401108 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1175401109 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will stop opening attachments then < 1175401125 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: you cheat quite a bit by allowing yourself to use C :) < 1175401142 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, there're textbooks on how to do that. < 1175401149 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minix) < 1175401150 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Windows is a bit like a dog that can dance: it's not that it does it well, but that it does it at all? < 1175401170 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less... an attachment to any ideology (be it Windows-hating or Windows-loving... or Islam or a great love for Emacs) < 1175401186 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like the dog that can dance that's made billions and billions of dollars < 1175401197 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1175401209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sesnses a proprietary software conversation coming. < 1175401210 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/Linux is just as impressive (if not more so for working better) < 1175401211 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how that's relevant to the conversation < 1175401245 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very real sense, Windows is a better OS than linux < 1175401265 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more user-friendly :) < 1175401271 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that < 1175401273 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers GNU/Linux a good deal more impressive, for being made mostly off of the effort of people who care about programming < 1175401278 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1175401282 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Linux does some stuff much better < 1175401294 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . this, of course, is because I'm one of the users that Windows is distrustworthy of. ;) < 1175401298 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: windows programmers don't care about programming? :) < 1175401312 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament3: They're doing it because it's a *job*. < 1175401322 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, and? < 1175401371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION trashes the sidewalks and dances around in circles rubbing his bellybutton < 1175401373 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CULTURE JAMMING < 1175401379 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1175401389 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GNU/Linux has been developed in large part by people who design stuff simply because that's *what they like to do*. < 1175401390 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I didn't mean to open this whole can of worms < 1175401409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1175401409 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just appreciating modern OSes. Windows in particular since I'm most familiar with it. < 1175401419 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think vim... is probably the best text editor out there for developers. < 1175401441 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, no notepad? :P (jk) < 1175401454 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the only manly editor is a dick-controlled electromagnet to write bits on the drive. < 1175401457 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emacs... is a terrible mishmash of shortcut keys and an ancient funky AI language with too many parenthesis < 1175401465 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least appreciate something useful, like photoshop :) < 1175401467 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dick-controlled O.o??? < 1175401475 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photoshop is annoying < 1175401490 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the back-end stuff is impressive < 1175401495 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, Lisp is ancient simply because *it has lasting power*. < 1175401500 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I really hate their interface < 1175401508 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs, the "dick controlled" part is just to make it truly manly. XD < 1175401512 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq, :) LOL YAH RITE < 1175401516 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought that was a typo < 1175401539 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp is the worst thing to happen to comptuer programming since.... COBOL. < 1175401546 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1175401555 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snickers and hides in the bushes as chaos ensues. < 1175401557 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :za? < 1175401557 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is *really* odd, since Lisp predates COBOL. < 1175401563 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it? < 1175401573 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp is what... `58? < 1175401575 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp hails from the 50's. < 1175401590 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-snicker- you're making this too easy for me. < 1175401602 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobol, `59 < 1175401605 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp `58 < 1175401614 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's trolling, Pikhq :P < 1175401622 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: look at how unix does hardware. The whole "everything is a file" thing. < 1175401658 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175401658 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but everything isn't a file. -grin- < 1175401659 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: I'm fond of troll-baiting. Adds activity to the room. < 1175401666 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1175401692 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been liking Perl a lot lately... which made me realize that, for the most part, the "everything is a " languages are fairly annoying. < 1175401694 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yeah. Stuff sort of evolved onto UNIX without thought towards the /dev/ stuff. . . < 1175401704 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that < 1175401706 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for hardware < 1175401709 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus why CakeProphet doesn't like Lisp. . . < 1175401712 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it (usually) makes more sense < 1175401725 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq, I like Lisp... it's pretty and easy to learn... < 1175401733 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can write to the screen as if it was a file < 1175401743 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can write to an internet connection as if it was a file < 1175401744 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... it's a tad too fanatical for my tastes. < 1175401747 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes life a lot easier < 1175401758 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: I get the feeling you'd like the Hurd. . . < 1175401761 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, there's always going to be something that fucks it up :P < 1175401769 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1175401778 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather dislike the everything is ___. < 1175401787 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for hardware, it seems convenient < 1175401801 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for software, it isn't right. < 1175401809 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah... most hardware has some sort of IO quality... that can be dubbed down to the operations of a file. < 1175401820 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1175401834 0 :lament3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1175401840 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hurd is mostly just "hardware is a file, and hell. . . The hardware over in that computer way over there is *also* a file." < 1175401857 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175401867 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is this Hurd? < 1175401870 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is conceptualizing an OS himself... but it'll be a while before he can attempt to even start on it. < 1175401883 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1175401883 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the GNU Project's take on a kernel. < 1175401899 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it < 1175401905 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributed filesystem. < 1175401910 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more so < 1175401919 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributed computing < 1175401924 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, it's got some political issues preventing some coders from actually getting stuff *in CVS*. < 1175401941 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175401962 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1175401964 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that Plan9 is a better OS for that sort of thing. . . It's actually got active development, and has things generally implemented better. < 1175401971 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell came up with recursive acronyms? :P < 1175401983 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux could do better... I think... with high-level structures. < 1175401994 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan9, BTW, is the successor to UNIX. ;) < 1175402047 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The everything is a file thing sort of drops out any possibility for data structured files... and table-ish files. < 1175402095 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen 'everything is a table' languages too :P < 1175402099 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say "hey this is a tree" or "hey this is a table"... without forcing every program that reads it to do some parsing. < 1175402139 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and there's no versioning system... to keep track of old edits. < 1175402176 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you guys tried writing a general purpose tree? < 1175402191 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slightly different topic) < 1175402194 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what do you mean? < 1175402217 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a C++ style library for tree structures like vectors, lists, maps, etc < 1175402236 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain in the ass! < 1175402252 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.... Lisp is pretty well-suited for trees... it uses linked lists internally. < 1175402264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Python you'd just use nested lists... < 1175402280 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could get all hyper-OO and make a tree object... if you're bat-fucking insane. < 1175402292 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it CP :P < 1175402315 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in C++) < 1175402327 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using Boost::Any to defeat the type system < 1175402375 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python defeats C's type system by representing everything as pointers. < 1175402395 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175402399 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn python then < 1175402412 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stole my idea! (before I had it, even) < 1175402421 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty easy to learn... < 1175402426 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175402433 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably learn it quickly enough < 1175402442 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..kind of bland though... but easy to write. < 1175402452 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1175402465 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co curly brackets. < 1175402468 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1175402477 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get around to learning all these scripting languages < 1175402483 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua, Python, Perl, Tcl < 1175402511 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript (yes, I don't know javascript! Can you believe it?) < 1175402519 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know JS. < 1175402530 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend Tcl. :) < 1175402532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Self or Smalltalk while you're at it. < 1175402533 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just too lazy to learn it < 1175402535 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or io < 1175402643 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/QXov1k68.html < 1175402717 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output of the program, btw, is: < 1175402718 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(b(d(i,j,k),e),c(f,g,h)) < 1175402718 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(b(d(i,j,k),e),c(f,g,h),a(b(d(i,j,k),e),c(f,g,h))) < 1175402795 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have trouble calling Python a "scripting language".... as I've never actually used it to write "scripts" (programs that you'd call to do simple tasks from a shell) < 1175402821 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interpretted, right? < 1175402827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175402839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little of both.... but it's considered interpreted. < 1175402843 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1175402868 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what C++ really needs is a type-traits system < 1175402892 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typed data is not a bad thing < 1175402895 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....dynamic typing. :) < 1175402919 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in some cases < 1175402923 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't the answer to everything < 1175402932 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What C++ really needs is one function: < 1175402945 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void dwim(void); // Do what I mean < 1175402953 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175403011 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes more sense to me to have types, because then you can be sure that you're actually dealing with data properly < 1175403021 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1175403038 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not exactly sure what static typing is supposed to accomplish... other than maybe some pre-run errors... < 1175403042 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the example of those guys who were working on that probe that screwed up < 1175403050 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one part of the team was working in metric units < 1175403055 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other in imperial units < 1175403065 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic typing doesn't mean "no types at all". < 1175403133 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is it adds a layer of checking to make sure you're using things the way they are supposed to be used. < 1175403145 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is... < 1175403146 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft. < 1175403158 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you get a great new function to convert objects < 1175403168 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's expect you to hand it a plate < 1175403175 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you give it a banana < 1175403187 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....then? < 1175403194 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll get shit all over the floor < 1175403204 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you either A. intended for it to do something or B. something will screw up and you'll know about it. < 1175403221 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1175403227 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't always know about it < 1175403235 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most problems in a program are my own mistakes :P < 1175403243 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather find them as quick as possible, wouldn't you? < 1175403254 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1175403257 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than testing, testing, testing to make sure data is moving around right < 1175403288 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I hated about whatever that program was called (second version of Klik but before Fusion or whatever) < 1175403299 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GamesFactory or something < 1175403303 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd play the game < 1175403313 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see.... types don't really mean anything... < 1175403315 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it encountered an unknown event, it'd prompt you what to do < 1175403321 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in duck typing anyways. < 1175403353 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about typing where typing matters: putting in things you expect into interfaces and getting things back out from interfaces that you expect... < 1175403384 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to call a function to print a string < 1175403422 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much more convenient to be able to know that it takes a _____ rather than a _____. < 1175403446 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit, it makes less sense for some applications than others < 1175403461 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see.... what if you have something that acts exactly like a string... but it isn't really a string. Are you supposed to create an entirely different library for this string-like thing when you could easily borrow functions that strings use? < 1175403464 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C/C++'s got it wrong < 1175403474 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1175403487 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say it has the traits of a string when you interface with it by X < 1175403496 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....??? < 1175403531 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why C++ has type conversion operators < 1175403543 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun < 1175403554 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you enjoy :) < 1175403564 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs, all of that sort of just sounds like "ways around static typing". < 1175403584 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 times, (play 2 octave harmonic scale, each note .015 seconds) < 1175403598 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is great fun < 1175403604 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a way of keeping static typing where you want static typing, and removing it, but only where you need to remove it and explicitly say how it deals with it < 1175403627 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its essentially more control < 1175403659 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welll... a lot of dynamically typed languages are starting to move towards optional static typing... which I think makes more sense. < 1175403669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control... when you need it. < 1175403677 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically what I'm saying < 1175403684 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point that C missed < 1175403690 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not designed for it < 1175403691 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C++ < 1175403697 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is type traits < 1175403710 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, they were hacked back in by the boost guys but I've never been able to get them to work properly) < 1175403713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is going towards optional static typing... and there's talk about it for Python 3 (thought currently no demonstrations of how it would work) < 1175403736 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already gave the exact example < 1175403745 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of why type traits are essential < 1175403756 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with just pure duck typing with optional type checks/conversions on function signatures. < 1175403757 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a function that deals with ____. < 1175403765 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this "typed variables" mumbo jumbo. :) < 1175403766 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XYZ is a lot like ____, I wish it could deal with it too < 1175403793 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake, how do you deal with objects of complex type in duck-typing systems? < 1175403799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1175403807 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex type? < 1175403810 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I like about C is that I can do < 1175403821 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Employee < 1175403821 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1175403825 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int salary; < 1175403830 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char* name; < 1175403841 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://etc < 1175403843 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1175403844 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow typist? < 1175403857 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just tryed putting in //etc directly < 1175403866 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1175403867 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had to type out the /msg #esoteric < 1175403881 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot about that < 1175403881 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to just hitting "/ /..." < 1175403882 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175403900 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... you like type declarations? < 1175403910 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175403927 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's alright I guess. < 1175403948 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of using OO if you can't keep related information together? < 1175403955 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really OO < 1175403965 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is < 1175403967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I like about duck typing... is that I can sketch up a class with read() and write() methods and pretty much plug it in anything that expects a file and have it work as I expect it to. < 1175403993 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now you're getting into what I'm talking about < 1175404001 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can replace stdin and stdout with my own special classes... and every read and write operation will be changed. < 1175404002 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I deal with things a bit differently < 1175404025 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently, in type systems, the way to say things are related is to inherit < 1175404032 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X inherits from Y < 1175404038 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shares its interface < 1175404051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- duck typing is a type system... < 1175404058 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't have typed variables. < 1175404067 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only typed things... < 1175404078 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain in the ass if I write code that expects an object with read() and write() but gets one that doesn't < 1175404093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1175404101 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how would your code react to it? < 1175404106 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely throw an exception < 1175404109 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just get an AttributeError exception < 1175404110 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some equivalent < 1175404129 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you have to keep checking for the error < 1175404132 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd just get an error something and the program would exit. Fix it.. and move on. < 1175404138 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world doesn't end if you get a runtime error. ;) < 1175404142 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I object to. < 1175404155 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is having to go through < 1175404159 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIND the error < 1175404166 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by accident, most likely) < 1175404174 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1175404175 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java has static duck typing < 1175404175 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to find compile errors? < 1175404182 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta < 1175404201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in Ocaml you can sketch up a class with read and write methods and plug it into anything which expects that. It's still statically typed. < 1175404213 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile errors say, "Oh, there's something wrong with this program go fix it now" < 1175404214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, from what I understand you can't pass arbitrary types through functions without there being some inheritance relation of some kind defined. < 1175404221 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of waiting for me to run into it < 1175404224 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that I do < 1175404224 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah < 1175404238 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs, that's not any different than a runtime error... you're just compiling instead of running. < 1175404239 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if I don't, John Doe down the road probably will after I release my project) < 1175404253 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the error when I compile :) < 1175404263 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why? < 1175404264 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, runtime errors are annoying < 1175404272 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference though < 1175404275 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two reasons: < 1175404281 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python, you forget to import a module and it ends up showing up at runtim < 1175404282 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is that I KNOW there's a problem < 1175404284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not cool < 1175404296 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I try test < 1175404303 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 30 minutes later < 1175404307 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- most errors I get in Python are obviously bad... those I KNOW there's a problem. < 1175404313 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after doing X,Y,Z and a ton of other stuff < 1175404322 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the error could be _anywhere_ < 1175404330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :te he he! < 1175404335 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing with sound is fun < 1175404341 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some types of problems, < 1175404348 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get an exception and an exit < 1175404354 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the way the system is designed < 1175404355 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1175404366 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Game Maker, variables can be either strings or reals < 1175404375 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs, some simple problem solving can usually find the source of the error. sure, it might require some thinking... but it's usually pretty obvious. < 1175404378 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are not explicitly declared as one or the other < 1175404413 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't count the number of times I've done something stupid like trying to show a message containing a number without first telling it to convert its representation < 1175404421 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't usually crash when I do that < 1175404429 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just get the mysterious message "0" < 1175404438 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of whatever I expected it to output < 1175404440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then it has a bad error system? < 1175404445 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1175404455 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the behavior it's supposed to do because of its weak type system < 1175404488 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the error system is a different issue) < 1175404494 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think I need to go for a while... < 1175404514 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shower, and my dad's probably gonna get mad at me for staying up so late... again...) < 1175404531 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll come back if I can to chat about this more, since this is really useful for me < 1175404544 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1175404548 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alrighty < 1175405420 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1175405477 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1175405480 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake, < 1175405491 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was misunderstanding what you meant by duck typing < 1175405506 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something different < 1175405619 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1175405623 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn OCaml < 1175405771 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how much I like dynamic typing < 1175405779 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like the ideas behind duck typing < 1175405800 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd prefer to have as much as possible of it dealt with at compile time < 1175406121 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175406160 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, saying a function takes as argument any object that can be used with ToString() < 1175406232 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1175406293 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any object that can be use with ToString(), has a method foo() and a member variable bar. < 1175406305 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1175406320 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, you specify interfaces < 1175406368 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about that is < 1175406376 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a library from VenderX < 1175406389 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it work with VenderY's library easily < 1175406398 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by specifying ways to convert < 1175406473 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, < 1175406493 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say VenderX provides a cross-platform error handling and logging library < 1175406553 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and VenderY is a game inventory system that produces ErrorTransactional objects when you try to buy or sell something you can't afford < 1175406597 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy* (drop the 'or sell' ... that didn't make sense :P) < 1175406616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175406649 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's also say, like in most proprietary C libraries, you can't modify the definition of ErrorTransactional or the code in the logging/error routines < 1175406758 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- what did you think I meant by duck typing? < 1175406781 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the language lets you specify a way to interpret ErrorTransactions as XErrorString... < 1175406793 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever the other proprietary format is) < 1175406820 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of a different sort of weakly typed system, I don't remember the name (if it has one) < 1175406844 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4188 <-- a very simple Tree like structure in Python < 1175406898 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I understand it < 1175406925 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know python's syntax) < 1175406927 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah... might be hard to follow < 1175406934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a lot of non-C-ish stuff... < 1175406961 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is < 1175406964 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Tree(list): < 1175406972 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're declaring the clas Tree < 1175406976 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is the (list)? < 1175406981 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derives from list? < 1175406995 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man if there's one thing I like about Python, it's the fact that indentation is enforced. < 1175407011 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it look clean. < 1175407043 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, I just jumped out of nowhere) < 1175407048 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1175407054 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. < 1175407079 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm gonna go to sleep < 1175407145 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175407147 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night < 1175407150 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175407259 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice... but it's probably one of the few things I like. < 1175407271 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is starting to get sick of his own native language. :( < 1175407282 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sympathises < 1175407316 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq got a capital! < 1175407365 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main complaint about Python is that it doesn't give you... any options. < 1175407385 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175407385 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire design goal is "there is one obvious way to do it"... < 1175407396 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's lack of real for really bugs me < 1175407422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... I haven't figured out how you would use a real for loop any different. < 1175407432 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost always see it used just as pythons for loop. < 1175407456 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax constructs are trivial... I just dislike the entire design method... if doesn't let the programmer choose what they want to do. < 1175407457 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you want to modify the loop variable? < 1175407467 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for skipping an item in the list or such < 1175407477 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... there's skip slicing. < 1175407514 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop through a list, if the current item is 0, skip the next one < 1175407519 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Inherited from gaim. < 1175407526 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to do with a traditional for loop < 1175407540 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.. < 1175407558 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to expand the for into a while in python < 1175407559 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... yeah I guess... a weird requirement... but I suppose it would be more difficult. < 1175407565 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1175407571 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1175407616 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for item in (x for index,x in enumerate(SomeList) if index != 1): ...a bit long-winded, but do-able. < 1175407639 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1175407662 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175407675 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... if the current ITEM... not the current index. < 1175407682 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175407691 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i said < 1175407700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you could use a variable in the loop to keep track of the condition. < 1175407714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's possible, it's just ugly < 1175407717 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but yeah... < 1175407747 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(always annoys me when I say "you can't do this" and then someone finds an ugly workaround as thought it were compensation) < 1175407762 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done, it's turing complete < 1175407796 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ideally there should be multiple forms. < 1175407814 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'd die before I had to type out C-style for loops each time I meant to use them like Python for loops. < 1175407827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but not having the option at all isn't good either. < 1175409506 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Care to give me an opinion on something I'm mulling over for Plof2? < 1175409563 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: I'm trying to free up the + operator on objects so that operator overloading will be useful, but that means I don't have an operator for object combination. I'm thinking of using the null operator, e.g. var A = :[...]; var B = :[...]; var C = A B; < 1175409575 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: make returns implicit < 1175409578 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else can feel free to chime in too :-P < 1175409623 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That doesn't really make any sense for the language. That being said, if a function consists only of a single expression, it just returns the value of that expression, as in functional languages. < 1175409635 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes whitespace significant too < 1175409643 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............... no. < 1175409667 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you mean my object combination suggestion? < 1175409670 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175409673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... what is the : operator? < 1175409704 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's not an operator, it's a modifier. :[...] is an object, [...] is an associative array (I don't like this and will probably change it, but this reflects the current state of the language :P) < 1175409711 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't really like that idea. . . ~ operator? < 1175409715 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1175409721 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusinger. < 1175409729 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, go for a null op. < 1175409743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about letting A : B be object combination? < 1175409744 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var D = :[...] :[...]; I assume makes sense? < 1175409754 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Of course. < 1175409768 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Confusing with ternary condition: foo ? bar : baf < 1175409783 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Yes, I buckled and added ternary conditionals :(] < 1175409794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but in that case nullary will _also_ confuse it < 1175409806 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... how so? < 1175409810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: why?? < 1175409812 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That syntax is meaningless at the moment. < 1175409822 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if if can return a value, you don't need ternary ? < 1175409823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo ? bar : [...] < 1175409824 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how the null op would confuse it. < 1175409827 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I'm trying to reduce the number of special compiler-provided functions. < 1175409847 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: : [ is not the same as :[ < 1175409865 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In the same way that 1 - -3 is not the same as 1-- 3 < 1175409887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1175409897 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, like I said, I don't like that particular syntax, it will probably change ;) < 1175409908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: huh? < 1175409923 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "if if can return a value, you don't need ternary ?" < this makes no sense at all < 1175409941 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "if" can return a value, you don't need ternary "?". < 1175409947 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1175409948 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah < 1175409986 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if is a function in the Plof standard namespace which is provided by the compiler ... I'm just trying to reduce the number of those. I suppose nobody really cares except me, so maybe I need to not do that ^^ < 1175409999 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs ternary "?" because you can't say x = if(p){..}else{...} < 1175410063 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're dancing on the functional side of the functional-imperative gap, I'm dancing on the imperative side. < 1175410073 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, personally, don't like having a huge amount of builtins. < 1175410084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why I was removing one :-P < 1175410085 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *like* being able to see the interface in stdlib.plof. < 1175410092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a +: operator. < 1175410116 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: For object combination? < 1175410117 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: do you have operator overloading? < 1175410120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1175410125 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I intend to. < 1175410141 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see the ability to overload _any_ operator < 1175410150 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How is that different from Pikhq's earlier ~ suggestion? < 1175410152 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, the "_**fo" operator < 1175410169 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main issue with ~ is that it's used in C as a bitwise operation. . . < 1175410173 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Well, there are two operators that it makes NO sense to overload with how Plof works: assignment and object combination. < 1175410231 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1175410237 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashdot has a digg thing < 1175410241 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1175410361 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 20070401. What do you expect? < 1175410403 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!! < 1175410410 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175410532 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1175414399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175414400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175415552 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175417259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1175417438 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175417492 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175417499 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175418539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cats are playing an April fool's day joke on me O_O < 1175420359 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-110.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175420595 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175424752 0 :dog4!n=dog4@xdsl-81-173-170-139.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175426385 0 :anonfunc!n=dholman@ppp-67-121-238-228.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175428869 0 :ais523!n=chatzill@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175429989 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1175430851 0 :helios24_!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175430891 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1175431192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_gen Hello, world! < 1175431196 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1175431204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1175431207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1175431209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...asd < 1175431210 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1175431212 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1175431213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1175431226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello, world! < 1175431278 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.>-.<<.+++.------.--------.>+. [294] < 1175431344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.>-.<<.+++.------.--------.>+. < 1175431345 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1175432141 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175432374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1175432381 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 minutes of logs again < 1175432392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should never leave this channel unguarded :) < 1175432457 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION started his day with a bit of coding :P < 1175432459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p622623512.txt < 1175432552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceptually trivial, but without any kind of syntax highlighting my feeble brain gets quite overloaded < 1175432591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recognize the language < 1175432606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python, and because no one is going to read that, it's brianfuck with lambdas < 1175432615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why is it always brian? < 1175432617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1175432626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b****fuck < 1175432633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175432663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was too easy... i though i'd be busy for hours :\ < 1175432679 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175432687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to know how oerjan did that with unlambda < 1175432744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i don't have the faintest clue how to do anything with unlambda even though i know most of the language < 1175432759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a P`` interpreter in Unlambda somewhere < 1175432782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generated it from a lambda-calculus version, though, so it's crappy auto-generated Unlambda < 1175432810 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-189-192.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175432849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i could convert that to pure lambda... < 1175432852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be hard < 1175432876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i won't, i have a better idea < 1175432931 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone tinkered with javascript? < 1175432959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the reference Underload implementation in JavaScript < 1175432959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1175433043 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting i think lol < 1175433047 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funky language < 1175433054 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast and loose < 1175433070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good as a counterexample to all the statments Java and UML teachers make about object-oriented programming < 1175433089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of a two level class/object hierarchy is outmoted < 1175433092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*outmoded < 1175433111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in JavaScript, you can come up with one-level or three-level or any-number-of-level hierarchies < 1175433329 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175433331 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it rules < 1175433368 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on a preprocessor in JS that lets you use most of the java oop keywords though lol < 1175434884 0 :anonfunc!n=dholman@ppp-67-121-238-228.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175434939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has just written Brainfuck in Thutu2 < 1175434942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/419548 < 1175434980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled into Perl, it's http://pastebin.ca/419550 < 1175435030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"in search of lunch" < 1175439975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO < 1175439979 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRIENDS OF THE REPUBLIC < 1175440054 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it looks like ais523 discovered prototype OO. :P < 1175440429 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175441223 0 :Sgeo!n=sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175442148 0 :Pikh1!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175442160 0 :Pikh1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Pikhq < 1175442187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pledge, for this year, to only learn programming languages that an employer will be likely to have me use. < 1175442189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is with me? < 1175442357 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realise that some employers will be willing to let you code in esolangs: they don't understand jack, anyways. < 1175443692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that'd be so cool :D < 1175443717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i big 3d-game programmed in bitwise cyclic tag < 1175443868 0 :ais523!n=chatzill@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175443879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg nickserv identify 523kk < 1175443898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I'll have to change my password now < 1175443912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... we'd so take your auth < 1175443913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1175443958 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION applauds < 1175443983 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION contemplates writing a word processor in BFM using PESOIX. :p < 1175443995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've changed it now anyway, just in case a logreader decides to impersonate me < 1175443999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as unlikely as that seems) < 1175444121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was trying to release the latest version of INTERCAL < 1175444128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but failed due to the lack of anywhere to put it < 1175444176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's safely cooped up on my hard drive now, unable to unleash its esotericness on the world < 1175444203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still sent a slightly modified version of my prepared message to alt.lang.intercal anyway though, letting people know why they couldn't obtain it < 1175444204 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175444255 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's about posting it in alt.lang.intercal? < 1175444426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't post binaries to a text newsgroup < 1175444433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides it's over 300KB long < 1175444452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even when compressed) < 1175444562 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a thought. < 1175444571 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carrier pigeon? :p < 1175444723 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175444791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: read RFC 1149 < 1175444878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the only IP standards with an average packet return time of 5222806.6 milliseconds < 1175445007 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have. < 1175445015 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the implementation. < 1175445200 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I've never actually had a programming job before. < 1175445203 0 :bsmntbom1dood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445216 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445216 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445217 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445217 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445226 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445226 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445226 0 :GregorR!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445239 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what a puny netsplit < 1175445324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's anything I could turn into a career... it's programming. Especially since you can do it at home. < 1175445626 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445626 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445626 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175445627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be more of a market for esolang programmers < 1175445645 0 :GregorR!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445645 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445645 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175445660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original INTERCAL manual suggests that INTERCAL may be useful for maintaining job security < 1175445739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody else will be able to edit your code < 1175446671 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175446671 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175446671 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175446765 0 :GregorR!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175446765 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175446765 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175449497 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175449497 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175449497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175449588 0 :GregorR!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175449801 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175449801 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175450524 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes this AFJ: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17879317/site/newsweek/ < 1175451095 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-11faauk.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175451421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175451581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my INTERCAL distribution finally found a host: http://intercal.freeshell.org/download < 1175452140 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175452140 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175452527 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175452598 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is even better: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6515701.stm < 1175453247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I spend all this trouble registering so I can have a quit message, and then I don't want to put anything in it" < 1175454033 0 :dog4_!n=dog4@xdsl-81-173-168-115.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175454554 0 :dog4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1175455663 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175455739 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL! < 1175455792 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owtf < 1175455801 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse is broken < 1175455842 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a mice for like, 5 activities. < 1175455844 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mouse < 1175455885 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an april fools joke < 1175455895 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stiky note stuck over the ball < 1175455909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Today is Apr. 1. < 1175455921 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can release RUT today. < 1175455933 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If exams weren't coming up, I could spend more time. < 1175455965 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175456005 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1175460184 0 :Arrogant!n=Arrogatn@188.orlando-09-10rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175460512 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Eidplos < 1175462345 0 :Figs!n=Figs@pool-71-126-176-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175463529 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175463754 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175464321 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175464870 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175465103 0 :Eidplos!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1175465284 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1175465284 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://religiousfreaks.com/2007/03/02/religious-freaks-distraught-over-miracle-pizza-pan/ < 1175466498 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1175466504 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.biggeekdaddy.com/sitebuilder/images/Virgins_in_Heaven-637x242.jpg <-- wtf? < 1175466602 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1175466608 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/calvin-on-scientific-law.gif < 1175466726 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, i love that < 1175467229 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175468102 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175468355 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175468380 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175470016 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175470096 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poink < 1175470782 0 :richie12790!n=chatzill@user-0cevd12.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175470808 0 :richie12790!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1175470833 0 :richie12790!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175470895 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1175471249 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw brainfuck with procedures once < 1175471777 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen multiple implementations. < 1175471843 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over achiever < 1175472164 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1175472176 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might need to do a genetic algorithm for this... < 1175472185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1175472205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is testing strings for "closeness" < 1175472258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need to decide on a metric < 1175472292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(metric=distance function) < 1175472350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this something like finding a minimal set of changes? < 1175472358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff-like) < 1175472522 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175472585 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There is an algorithm for that in the python stdlib < 1175472682 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1175472690 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib/python2.5/difflib.py < 1175472731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 2.1 it says < 1175472743 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SequenceMatcher.ratio < 1175472827 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get_close_matches is a cool function from that module < 1175473047 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks pretty simple < 1175473082 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives 2*/ < 1175473089 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175473156 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1175473263 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175473271 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to recode it a little < 1175473536 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think I'm a kde convert < 1175473562 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion ftw < 1175473621 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175473646 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion rocks < 1175473796 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175473828 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175474694 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@pool-71-126-177-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175474724 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1175474743 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works! < 1175474747 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Fogs < 1175474751 0 :Fogs!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1175474997 0 :dog4_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1175476476 0 :anonfunc!n=dholman@ppp-67-121-238-228.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175477251 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I have some code to compare two strings < 1175477303 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("apple", "apple") => 1.0 < 1175477321 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("apple", "appl") => .888 < 1175477355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("apple", "orange") => .363 < 1175477369 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("apple", "appel") < 1175477383 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.8 < 1175477486 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("aaa", "bbb") => 0. < 1175477631 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like hamming distance? O.o < 1175477711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("abcde", "edcba") < 1175477719 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1175477765 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: .2 < 1175477783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, only one match < 1175477791 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda broken < 1175477796 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175477798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no consideration of swapping < 1175477871 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175477876 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how to handle this < 1175477916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the python library handles swapping either, if i read the documentation correctly < 1175477971 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :difflib.SequenceMatcher("abcde", "edcba").ratio() => 0 < 1175477987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's strange < 1175478021 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno how to remove the matches from strings after they are counted < 1175478062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicing? < 1175478072 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah < 1175478122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an idea might be to sum something like squares of lengths < 1175478217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a reversed sequence would match completely in pieces, but the sum would not add up to as much as for equal strings < 1175478330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175478385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, matching "abcdef" with "acdebf" might give an unintuitive result if you simply remove the match and match the remainder < 1175478406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after removing "cde", the strings become equal < 1175478439 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1175478454 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1175478462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1175478467 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just created my own thing. < 1175478477 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that takes into account transposition. < 1175478484 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't realize you were talking about it. < 1175478487 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply removing the matches gives ratio("abcde", "edcba") => 1.0 < 1175478500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1175478512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every piece matches somewhere < 1175478530 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175478534 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not acceptable < 1175478542 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except this one uses a decision tree to find the shorted possible way to do it. < 1175478555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what my square suggestion meant to fix < 1175478645 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks ok < 1175478660 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4*/**2 < 1175478686 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just removing common substrings as we find them < 1175478827 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the square root of that < 1175478871 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("abcde", "edcba") => 0.4472135955 < 1175478931 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I could actually split off the recursions into threads... if necessary < 1175479046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/420272 <--- < 1175479142 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1175479151 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum of squares doesn't work very well < 1175479162 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratio("apple", "appel") => .44 < 1175479201 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175479210 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not good < 1175479251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to find the _longest_ match first < 1175479255 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modification to hamming distance tend to work nicely. < 1175479290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be matching single characters < 1175479306 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who me? < 1175479312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, bsmntbombdood < 1175479332 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1175479341 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this finds the first one first < 1175479427 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... mine works really well for what I'm using it for (finding the closest match to a string within a list of strings) < 1175481949 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175482175 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Oh, a convience function < 1175482672 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, I'm lazy < 1175482743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function for black people with braids? < 1175482786 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks python ints should have an __iter__ method < 1175482847 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to iterate over what? < 1175482857 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n.__iter__ = range(n) < 1175482877 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... don't think that would make much sense < 1175482885 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for num in 6: < 1175482900 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175482920 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me think of "every possible floating point value of 6"... which would go on forever. < 1175482971 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.next() == 0 < 1175483020 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175483359 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175483979 0 :Figs!n=Figs@pool-71-126-174-109.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175483986 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1175483988 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys seen this, right? < 1175483990 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nata2.info/d/pictures/f/americans.gif < 1175484101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1175484206 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?y=2007&m=03&img=30-224100L&t=jpg&rand=2971&srv=img4 < 1175485315 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt highly that that's real. (The first one) < 1175485415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthse.htm < 1175485594 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo < 1175485598 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i joined facebook!! < 1175485605 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1175485606 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bops lament's nose. < 1175485608 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD LAMENT < 1175485609 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO BISCUIT < 1175485610 0 :Arrogant!n=Arrogatn@239.orlando-09-10rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175485628 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an esoteric programming group? < 1175485686 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psuedo Hadamard transform! < 1175485725 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@pool-71-126-172-203.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175485732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pseudo" < 1175485798 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1175485801 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1175485814 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1175485816 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ther we go < 1175486290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't even a brainfuck group :( < 1175486320 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1175486330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just a lame-nt < 1175486528 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1175486566 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm thinking of allowing function overloading by allowing calls to arrays of functions. < 1175486569 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[In Plof] < 1175486691 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175486865 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function overloading? < 1175486901 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175487264 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... you know, multiple functions with the same names, differentiated by their signature... < 1175487344 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no? < 1175487360 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what was that no to? :-P < 1175487381 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1175487389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... you know, multiple functions with the same names, differentiated by their signature... < 1175487403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :-P < 1175487409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand plof is dynamically typed, so the functions would have to check argument types and backtrack to the next function on failure. < 1175487454 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Plof is dynamically typed with some static typing operators. There is such an operator in function signatures, which enforces that the function is called with the proper arguments. < 1175487496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.: var println = (x as string){...} < 1175487496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic, so you can declare signatures. < 1175487500 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175487544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted you could probably extend that to pattern matching < 1175487555 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175487602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guards < 1175487706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, would pattern matching in that scenario not be a guard by definition? < 1175487777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a pattern could also deconstruct arguments into variables, and a guard could be a general boolean expression < 1175487807 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's getting a bit more complicated than is actually valuable :) < 1175487856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just guards then, perhaps. < 1175487999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, (x as inrange(1,10)) < 1175488006 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I can see. < 1175488043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it would be a function to boolean < 1175488047 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175488050 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if I implement function overloading as above. < 1175488124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could even have an alternative syntax: (x where x >= 1 and x <= 10) < 1175488158 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I like that. < 1175488501 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175489363 0 :CakeProphet_!n=CakeProp@h84.240.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175490254 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1175494551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading about objective C < 1175495106 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks nice < 1175495446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why C++ and Java caught on < 1175495540 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple <3 Obj-C < 1175495647 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1175495832 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? I speak only truth. < 1175495844 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if obj-c is as fast as C, that would be fantastic < 1175497322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1175497331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1175497351 0 :helios24_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :helios24 < 1175498219 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-160-126.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1175500799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175500800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175501576 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC is nothing to :3 about. < 1175501603 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like someone grafted on two dissimilar things together into one weird ununiform conglomerate. < 1175501612 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's a lot better than C++, so there you go. < 1175501642 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's like Plof X-D < 1175501652 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My theory about Java is that a long time ago, Java programmers didn't suck and Java ran reliably. I coded a whole bunch of signal processing and NN tools for it, and it was really fast/light. < 1175501693 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked with 64-bit precision numbers the whole time too, and processed about 6 MB of data per-pass, averaging somewhere in the millions for number of passes. < 1175501777 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My conclusion was that, because Java is the New Thing (TM), every bum coder and his mentally addled half-cousin he slept with ends up using Java and turning codebase into poop. That and I don't like Java's emphasis on New Technologies and the annoying abbreviation technologies. < 1175501864 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL would probably be like that too if it had caught on. < 1175502088 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1175502592 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175502610 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"愛してた。アンタの高い姿を見たことの最初から、見とれた。アンタの真っ黒髪が風の勝手 < 1175502770 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1175502839 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me? < 1175502839 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1175503998 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1175504496 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1175504915 0 :dog4!n=dog4@xdsl-81-173-230-144.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175504924 0 :dog4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175506066 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-11faauk.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175507174 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175507978 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-108-66.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175509482 0 :nooga!i=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1175509584 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened with that c2bf compiler? < 1175510045 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: asking me? < 1175510080 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1175510100 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then you want GregorR < 1175510120 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c < 1175510125 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i got to go ; < 1175510592 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go zzz, night all < 1175510631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nn < 1175510733 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"yays for stack-based thingies!" < 1175510871 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175511081 0 :evilC!n=clive_gi@ip-58-28-157-60.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1175511115 0 :evilC!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175515221 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-051-178.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175517358 0 :dog4!n=dog4@xdsl-81-173-230-144.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175519944 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175520172 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1175520180 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guys < 1175520769 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175520833 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-051-178.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175527955 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juju < 1175527965 0 :_filippo_!n=pippo@host135-3-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1175527967 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got my raytracer in sadol working < 1175527969 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1175528227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/419385 :D < 1175528254 0 :dog4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1175528379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make graphics output < 1175528414 0 :_filippo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175528526 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: echo "2" | BDSM2 raytracer.sad > output.ppm < 1175528544 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then open the pm file with some graphic viewer < 1175528549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okily < 1175528553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not now though < 1175528557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna study! < 1175528565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had an exam today, but i slept over it < 1175528566 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1175528581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one tomorrow as well, hope i have better luck with the alarm < 1175528610 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::} < 1175528620 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@216.140.54.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175528625 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175530494 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@209.11.151.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175541006 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175543897 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changes for Plof2: 1) Ability to call arrays of functions for overloading, 2) null operator for object combination, 3) Remove ternary comparison and re-add builtin if et cetera, 4) Change return rules: If a value returned from a thin function is actually used (e.g. on the right side of an assignment), it does not continue to fall through. This will allow if() and pals to be used in both the imperative sense and the functional sense. < 1175544492 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that you're all endlessly fascinated :-P < 1175544869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1175544886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the return thing works but STILL i don't like it < 1175544927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it quite unintuitive it checks whether it's used for something < 1175545006 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I :( < 1175545008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can't find any problem with it < 1175545010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1175545016 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find a nice middle ground, but can't *sigh* < 1175545017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1175545025 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm going for a good-enough middle ground ;) < 1175545048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure some kind of quoting might help, but i'm having a hard time grasping the concept fully even < 1175545060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's rarely an issue with languages :) < 1175545100 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, here's what it would mean: < 1175545130 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo = :{ if(:{1 == 1}, {return(3);}, else, {return(4);}); }; // returns 3 < 1175545141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo = :{ var a = if(:{1 == 1}, {return(3);}, else, {return(4);}); }; // sets a to 3 < 1175545186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose a? < 1175545258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo's level's a of foo's a? < 1175545294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will foo become something like struct{int a(==3);} < 1175545300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175545430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "else" thing is quite confusing imo :) < 1175545496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so... hmm, why does the second one have :{ in the beginning? < 1175545563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":{" means ":{expression without ; and implicit return }" and "{" means "{ expression; expression; etc.; insert return issue here; }" ? < 1175545567 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears. < 1175545619 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::{ is a thick function, a function that the return will conclude at. A { is a thin function. I may be able to remove this distinction with my latest change, or not :) < 1175545640 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because I said "var a", I was declaring an a at that scope, so it sets that a. Not very useful :) < 1175545676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so foo will become nothing in the latter? < 1175545683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't return anything < 1175545686 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1175545691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a contrived example :P < 1175545789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175545824 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thin/thick functions is a concept which helped make returning less ridiculous, but didn't necessarily make it less confusing >_> < 1175545827 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still working on it :P < 1175545844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo = if(:{1==1}, :{return "1 equals 1!";}, {return "the whole function failed"}); < 1175545846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175545855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't thick/thin fix the if problem < 1175545861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that i mean ^^^^^^^^^^^^ < 1175545875 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is, if is going to be calling those functions. < 1175545890 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the return value will go to 'if'. < 1175545891 0 :helios24_!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175545909 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not (in your example) to foo. < 1175545932 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the whole problem with returns was :) < 1175545977 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175545984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously... this is too hard for me, i should think about this quite a lot to even be of help at brainstorming :) < 1175546007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "::{" < 1175546009 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how, no matter what concept of programming you follow, there's always a nasty corner :P < 1175546124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: == evaluate at upper level -> :{ would be a normal return given to an "if"... since it would do an expression level return, while a ::{ function would evaluate at the function's level the if is claled at < 1175546138 0 :helios24_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :helios24 < 1175546143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175546151 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's totally legitimate to pass in functions that you didn't write in right there. < 1175546159 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where the bork would they return to :) < 1175546192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they obviously wouldn't be upperlevelized with : < 1175546221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1175546223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175546869 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to my hell ;) < 1175546978 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... you could like... use a bunch of different concepts... perhaps thwarting nasty corners where they breed. < 1175547055 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nasty corner comes from the merging of two concepts :-P < 1175547060 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely functional and imperative. < 1175547091 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, "every-block-is-a-function" and imperative programming. < 1175547730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do quite the same thing with oklotalk actually, but i do everything functionally, just let functions modify upper level variables < 1175547786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what i do differently, but there are no problems.... might just be the fact i've not thought that much about that side of the language :P < 1175547803 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175548413 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175548684 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how's your learning? < 1175548717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the studying... i browsed through the first 50 pages or so :D < 1175548724 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1175548729 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run teh raytracer < 1175548737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe i should < 1175548803 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "10" | BDSM2 raytracer.sad > test.ppm < 1175548814 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will output 1200x900 image < 1175548835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1175548858 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That interpreter name makes my brain bleed. < 1175548863 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1175548867 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool < 1175548868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. relink it, i've lost the page, 2. i assume i write that on this channel, specify where otherwise :) < 1175548891 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm porting it to SymbianOS 9 < 1175548905 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you run it in bash < 1175548951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought so < 1175548956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't have bash < 1175549134 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pitty -.- < 1175549164 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-044-220.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175549216 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i could name the interpreter "CSI - Cool Sadol Interpreter" but it wouldn't be such funny < 1175549245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga no windows way to do it? :P < 1175549266 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175549282 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BDSM2 ray.sad > test.ppm < 1175549296 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then input some number from 1 to 10 < 1175549301 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press enter < 1175549306 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wait < 1175549307 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1175549322 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open test.ppm in irfanview or such thingy < 1175549376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link? < 1175549382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have it somewhere? < 1175549432 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/419385 < 1175549553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so... bdsm2.exe takes for 1. argument the source and for second argument the arguments for the sadol program? < 1175549676 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175550532 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what about nested thick/thin function < 1175550538 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very pretty < 1175552326 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is esoteric! < 1175552340 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call them "function" and "block"? < 1175552884 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic and lexical scope. < 1175552921 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function = lexical block = dynamical < 1175553189 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175553270 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would use blocks as loops and conditions and all that jazz... and functions would be your... well... functions. < 1175553320 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could make functions into thin sugar around blocks < 1175553371 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocks would need a stack anyway, I suspect, so you could just say that a function is a variable containing a block with a little invisible code in it or something. < 1175553393 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell, a function is just an expression with arguments, after all... < 1175553395 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could always just be... separate entities entirely... :) :) :) < 1175553462 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always find things work strangely when you attempt to de-primitify your primitives. < 1175553524 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright... so an integer is an object... so what part of the object gives it its value? What gives a string object its value? ...no one seems to know. :P < 1175553582 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean 'what part'? < 1175553599 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nothing specific. < 1175553605 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand < 1175553611 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integers are objects, clearly < 1175553618 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...just... a part... with all the vagueness entailed. < 1175553629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you have special egofield for that, .__value__= < 1175553630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if integers have any 'parts' to speak of < 1175553648 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1175553688 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... so would the __value__ of 5 be? 5? hehe... makes sense in a strange way. < 1175553691 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE VALUE OF SAM IS SAM < 1175553700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, CakeProphet_, i don't see why you'd have to know the field, an object hides it's value, integer hiding it's value is essentially that value < 1175553720 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INCREMENT CakeProphet_ BY CakeProphet_ GIVING TOQO < 1175553764 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly that question arises when I subclass an integer... when your working in the integers enternals there's nothing directly accessible that gives 5 its 5ness. < 1175553802 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1175553815 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a matter of representing your integers nicely. < 1175553830 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole "everything is an object" notion is infinitely recursive... you have objects consisting of objects.... the tree needs leaves at some point. < 1175553839 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175553841 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that preferred representations in math care about operations more than about objects themselves < 1175553864 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Integers are a set (of featureless objects, that is) that behaves in a certain way under certain operations)" < 1175553877 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, you can define them in different ways, for example peano arithmetic < 1175553881 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's easy < 1175553895 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a magical singleton object zero < 1175553898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_ what's wrong with infinite recursions? < 1175553905 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have objects with field 'pred' < 1175553913 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it would make more sense to me to simply have an unexplained axiom... the integer... the string... there's nothing more under the hood to know. < 1175553917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a conceptual recursion and does not do any harm < 1175553918 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if your objects pred is zero, then you know the object is one < 1175553979 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha... that's pretty cool. < 1175553981 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in most cases, math treats integers as labeled "points" with no content < 1175554049 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two integers are distinguishable if their labels are different < 1175554063 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say anything more than that unless you define operations on the integers < 1175554078 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with a conceptual recursion... in msot cases. It really doesn't harm anything... it just seems silly to confuse everything with the notion that everything needs an underlying explaination. < 1175554121 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_: "needs an underlying explanation" is different from "consists of parts" < 1175554186 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's pretty silly for integers to have "properties", certainly < 1175554316 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consisting of parts amounts to an explaination... What's a bench? Wood and metal.. What's wood? Cellulose. What's Cellulose? (C6H10O5)n. What's Carbon? 6 electrons. What's an electron? < 1175554341 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electrons, however, don't consist of parts < 1175554353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can still "explain" them by detailing their behavior < 1175554417 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derailing from computer science... this would get into notions of identity, THE LEAVES OF THE REALITY GRAPH, and human cognition. -wiggles his philosophers hat pre-emptively- < 1175554569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately integers are not 'real' in any way :) < 1175554584 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUN NOT INTENDED AND I SHALL SMITE YOU IF YOU MAKE IT < 1175554720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ACTUALLY INTEGERS ARE REALS, THEY'RE A SUBSET OF REALS < 1175554744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1175554893 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1175554897 0 :oklopol!n=villsalo@194.251.102.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175554901 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1175554903 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o lament < 1175554915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :< < 1175554926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't resist < 1175554946 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMMM, NO < 1175554948 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S A GOOD POINT < 1175554962 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... Let's turn OO on its head. < 1175554978 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now stuff is defined by what its a part of. < 1175554978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't we do that tomorrow? :| < 1175554989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_: hmmm < 1175554994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_: that's Prolog i think < 1175555002 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_: the "is a" relationship :) < 1175555009 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i guess that's different < 1175555017 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.... is a is something like... a type check < 1175555037 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just having a little thought experiment here. < 1175555039 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object a contains fields foo and bar < 1175555046 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fields foo and bar are contained in object a < 1175555049 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same thing... < 1175555119 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... hmmm... but what is a? < 1175555145 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is a part of the universe. < 1175555187 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... same thing essentially... just... backwards. HMMMM HOW SURPISING < 1175555193 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT SOMETHING REVERSED IS THE SAME THING REVERSED. < 1175555264 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's close the loop while we're at it. < 1175555275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe is a part of an integer :) < 1175555326 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555326 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555326 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555326 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555327 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555327 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555327 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555328 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555328 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555328 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555328 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555328 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555328 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555330 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555331 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555331 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555331 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555331 0 :Izzy7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555332 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555332 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175555350 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555350 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555350 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.198.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555350 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80-162.cust.umeaenergi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555356 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555356 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-11faauk.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555356 0 :GregorR!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555356 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@76.201.145.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555356 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@bylands.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555363 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555366 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555366 0 :Izzy7!i=senji@cleopatra.thy.me.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555366 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555366 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555369 0 :dog4!n=dog4@xdsl-81-173-169-44.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555369 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555369 0 :bsmnt_bot!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555369 0 :tokigun!n=tokigun@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555402 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555402 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555402 0 :CakeProphet_!n=CakeProp@h84.240.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555402 0 :gg_!n=gg@71.237.177.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175555424 0 :dog4!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175555487 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175555639 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes. < 1175555826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see the world in a grain of sand < 1175555830 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heaven in a wild flower < 1175555837 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold infinity in the palm of your hand < 1175555842 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eternity in an hour < 1175555857 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never realized that poem was about OOP. < 1175555967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand it < 1175556074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i do, now that i think about it < 1175556076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :) < 1175556193 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....I just think this is incredible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attosecond < 1175556500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a hard time keeping up with all this intellectualism < 1175556520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_: what's incredible? < 1175557674 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 attosecond is the amount of time it takes for light to travel the length of three hydrogen atoms < 1175557678 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1175557832 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretical physics is funny < 1175558755 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175559081 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an attosecond is to one second what one second is to the age of the universe. < 1175559091 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...just a sort of jaw-drop thing that wasn't expecting. < 1175559220 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---____--- < 1175559224 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ jaw drop < 1175559496 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1175559504 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlimited! Indefinite! Arbitrary! < 1175559517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not infinite! < 1175559541 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unbounded < 1175560393 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1175560412 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limited! Definite! Finite! Uh... inarbitrary! < 1175560420 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and bounded. < 1175560445 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not infinite? < 1175561331 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because... um... < 1175561340 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because infinite is not finite! :-) < 1175561347 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1175561455 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer * -quiet < 1175561461 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1175561731 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-105-245.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175562219 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"あの女の子。" < 1175562894 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175563111 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175563804 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :na[zZz]gjunk < 1175563994 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175565543 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175565667 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175565781 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-11faauk.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175566971 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"休み時間もう来た!さあぁぁぁ!" < 1175569236 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet. < 1175569263 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a joke module that fully implements goto and come from in Python < 1175569436 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1175570317 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1175570375 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1175572746 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175575283 0 :CakeProphet_!n=CakeProp@h84.240.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175575337 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175575337 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175575337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175575337 0 :na[zZz]gjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175575341 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1175575347 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision) < 1175575347 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1175575347 0 :na[zZz]gjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175575347 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175575347 0 :gg_!n=gg@71.237.177.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175575380 0 :CakeProphet_!n=CakeProp@h84.240.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175576073 0 :nooga_!i=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1175576355 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175576436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175580846 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To anybody interested, #plof < 1175580888 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175581481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1175581662 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175583782 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet_: the code for that module is interesting < 1175583890 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very interesting < 1175584266 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-tokenize.html < 1175584286 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it could implement some crude macro capabilities < 1175584386 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think conditional comefroms will work in that module < 1175584388 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1175584411 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that would make any sense... < 1175586879 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175587199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175587200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175587213 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175587658 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuyu < 1175589291 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-105-245.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175592036 0 :dog4!n=dog4@xdsl-81-173-229-70.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175592384 0 :na[zZz]gjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1175593118 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-35-203.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175594005 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-168-218.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1175594290 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175594437 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1175596545 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna zzz, gnight everyone < 1175596570 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175596907 0 :dog4!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175600418 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175601220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: it looks like you really want lexically scoped return < 1175601298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in plof) < 1175601342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would at least solve the if problem < 1175601379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm, i guess it's still middle of the night over there) < 1175601485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, return would go to the lexically enclosing thick function < 1175601914 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175601956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think that bash command that troubled you was also perfectly legal DOS < 1175602043 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-237-102.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175604156 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1175604562 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175606941 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u < 1175606950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1175606981 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1175607006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< < 1175607060 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plof < 1175607087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isabelle < 1175607122 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herring disco < 1175607188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom < 1175607210 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() < 1175607250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() :: () < 1175607251 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup oerjan < 1175607256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much < 1175607270 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any new languages? < 1175607281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1175607296 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1175607343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you? < 1175607351 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naah :\ < 1175607489 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to make normal programming language < 1175607527 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for myself < 1175608270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1175609674 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host217-42-150-240.range217-42.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175609738 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this connection working? < 1175609789 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1175609816 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1175609825 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was something wrong at my end. < 1175610147 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175610944 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-35-203.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175611269 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thiinking about writing a photon tracer < 1175611309 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of raytracer but it would trace photons FROM the lights < 1175611378 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1175612867 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like famous photon soup < 1175613435 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175615240 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175617731 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1175617879 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175617908 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175618200 0 :IslandHopper973!n=chatzill@host217-42-150-240.range217-42.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175618222 0 :IslandHopper973!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :UnrelatedToQaz < 1175618229 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175620386 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1175620614 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175621144 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175622465 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175624691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga_: Sooooooooooo ... you want to create the universe in a simulation? < 1175624706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[The reason ray-tracers go in reverse is that it's soooooooooooo much more efficient] < 1175624745 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a photon tracer would need arbitrary bounds, but anyway. < 1175624796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ray tracing starts with a pixel on the screen? < 1175624802 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175624812 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense. < 1175624822 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you may as well not emulate photons that never occur :-P < 1175624829 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1175624833 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never appear rather < 1175626497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when we'll have real-time raytracing < 1175626502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1175626532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already available, just not well-distributed < 1175626549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just limit the number of pixels, and it's easy. < 1175626555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, limit it to one. < 1175626567 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, one thing i always dreamt of doing: a Flatland FPS < 1175626568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real-time high-res raytracing then < 1175626585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hms? < 1175626589 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a regular first-person-shooting, but it's completely 2d and hte display is just a single horizontal line of pixels < 1175626600 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the screen is just black < 1175626610 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has statusbars etc < 1175626611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read about a demonstration recently, i vaguely recall "cebit" < 1175626730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google for "realtime raytracing" < 1175626857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I once predicted that VRML would never have gravity.. < 1175626888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I didn't see a reasonable way for gravity to be defined < 1175626899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1175626954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bye for now < 1175626966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1175627224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1175628222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Giving up" < 1175631612 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reasonable way to define gravity? < 1175631713 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1175631938 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175633711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" a regular first-person-shooting, but it's completely 2d and hte display is just a single horizontal line of pixels" i've done a 2d ~ 3d flying game < 1175633766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it was not a straight one line of pixels, the closer an object is, the wider it is from the middle of the screen < 1175633781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and objects further away go black, close ones are red < 1175633809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it actually looks quite 3d, though my crappy math made it crooked :) < 1175633820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crooked, but distorted < 1175634815 0 :atrapado!i=opensol@217.Red-81-47-10.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175634963 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION psychically predicts that atrapado is using OpenSolaris. < 1175635060 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not using opensolaris, only planning to install < 1175635089 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snaps* ... your mask is opensol@... :-P < 1175635125 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. yes. < 1175635249 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your nick spanish or portuguese? < 1175635287 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. spanish. it could be portuguese also < 1175635330 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people's nicks are monolingual though :) < 1175635362 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick is Scottish and (transliterated) Russian :-P < 1175635419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my nick is Unga-Bungish for "happy song" < 1175635451 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And English for lament? < 1175635458 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no < 1175635464 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1175635471 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :happy_song < 1175635497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_D6Gregor1RFeZi < 1175635517 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick is D for GregorR :-P < 1175635725 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my nick is Unga-Bungish for "lament" < 1175635773 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR < 1175636109 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175636139 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-041-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175640388 0 :bsmnt_bot!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175640391 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi guys i'm showing my programming teacher bsmntbombdood < 1175640396 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt_bot i mean < 1175640441 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, we'll stop talking about sex and drugs then < 1175640448 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... flowers! < 1175640487 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.register_raw("\S+ PRIVMSG #esoteric :~foo.*", lambda x,y: bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, world")) < 1175640490 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~fpp < 1175640492 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~foo < 1175640493 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, world < 1175640514 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec time.sleep(200) < 1175640516 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ps < 1175640517 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 'time.sleep(200)', 1.99 seconds < 1175640528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~kill 0 < 1175640530 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ps < 1175640531 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 'time.sleep(200)', 15.96 seconds, killed < 1175640991 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175642230 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves < 1175642245 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that's half an hour old < 1175642246 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.< < 1175642459 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sleep gah" < 1175643120 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175643217 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah...it took like 3 minutes... < 1175643349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean we can start talking about sex and drugs again? < 1175643389 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1175643390 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1175644517 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing strings for similarity is difficult < 1175644532 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, "aaaaaaaa" and "bbbbbbbb" are pretty similar < 1175644655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a form of kolmogorov complexity again: what is the shortest program that can produce both strings < 1175644719 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so compare the compressed versions of the strings < 1175644765 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad you can't compress in the first place < 1175644964 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1175645054 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kolmogorov complexity result. < 1175645063 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find the optimal compression. < 1175645079 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to be optimal < 1175645145 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"8 repitions of 'a'" and "8 repitions of 'b'", while not any smaller than the original strings, still help to compare them < 1175645322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it requires human interpretation. < 1175645433 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1175645451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a computer just dumbly comparing programs would not be able to tell why that was essentially better than ["aaaaaaaa","bbbbbbbb"]!!0 and ["aaaaaaaa","bbbbbbbb"]!!1 < 1175645481 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compression algorithms... < 1175645500 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8b1f 0008 de47 4612 0300 4c4b 0084 002e 66b6 add7 0009 0000 < 1175645512 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8b1f 0008 de52 4612 0300 4a4b 0082 002e 0d07 d1d7 0009 0000 < 1175645521 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1175645533 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is 8 a's gziped, the second is 8 b's gziped < 1175645619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather lousy compression :) < 1175645653 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's so short < 1175645738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that method will not show similarity of strings, anyhow, unless you are very lucky with how the strings and gzip interact. < 1175645824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you might do is to compare the compressed lengths of the two strings concatenated and each of them. < 1175645849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might at least give some information < 1175645854 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use a custom compression algorithm that is designed for this purpose < 1175645891 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aaaaaaaabbbbbbbb" gziped is 8b1f 0008 e00d 4612 0300 4c4b 8084 2824 02e0 1100 a19d 11b8 0000 0000 < 1175645926 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175645954 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if one of my strings is digits of pi, and the other is digits of 4-pi? < 1175645983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however gzip doesn't help with things that have no characters in common, does it? < 1175646005 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy_song: it can't consider _all_ similarities < 1175646013 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i dunno < 1175646114 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: precisely < 1175646181 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the similarity of A and B could be the length of a program to convert A into B < 1175646183 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la sed < 1175646213 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la Levenstein distance < 1175646396 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"multiverse?" < 1175646453 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aaaaaaaa" -> "bbbbbbbb" = s/a/b/g < 1175646551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reduces to kolmogorov complexity in the case A="" < 1175646572 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1175647758 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175649991 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175650045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1175651508 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think levenshtein distance of compressed strings is a good similarity metric < 1175651697 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using gzip, < 1175651705 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dist("a"*8, "a"*8) => 0 < 1175651715 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dist("apple", "appel") => 4 < 1175651728 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dist("apple", "bannana") => 10 < 1175651741 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dist("a"*8, "b"*8) => 4 < 1175651803 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dist("a"*100, "b"*100) => 6 < 1175651884 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dist("abcde", "edcba") => 5 < 1175652012 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using bzip2 the results are ... different < 1175652504 0 :Pikhq!n=Pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175654961 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175655893 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost has an IME set up. . . < 1175655908 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need to figure out how to get KDE to start with some environment variables exported. < 1175655910 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi? < 1175655942 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Found it. < 1175656027 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175656299 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175656322 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :やった! < 1175656352 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRRRRR, TEH NOT ENGLISH < 1175656359 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[You don't have #plof on autojoin :( :P] < 1175656590 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :少しがいるか? < 1175656602 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRRRRR, TEH NOT ENGLISH < 1175656613 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for the other Japanese speaker in here. < 1175658844 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe min(levenshtein(a, b), levenshtein(compress(a), compress(b))) < 1175659044 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polyglots with C and any language with #-style comments is so easy :) < 1175659087 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because levenshtein(compress.compress()"the quick brown fox jumped over the fence"), compress.compress("the quic brown fox jumped over the fence")) => 6 < 1175659098 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where levenshtein(...) => 1 < 1175659713 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ちょっとね。 < 1175659731 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I want to write an operating system as a polyglot of a bunch of languages. < 1175659743 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I say that. < 1175659745 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1175659752 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably go crazy < 1175659755 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before taht happend. < 1175659812 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175659909 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing headers and shit from the gzipping should help < 1175659957 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1175659980 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most polyglots play around with comments to achieve polyglotness. < 1175660027 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You almost have to. < 1175660031 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C works well with bash-comments... you can make macros tha won't break the languages that treat it as comments. < 1175660033 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1175660057 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones that don't take advantage of comments take advantage of the intersection of language syntax :-P < 1175660087 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... like... Python floor division and...... C comments???? < 1175660093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to think of a use. < 1175660116 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1175660120 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still comment-based < 1175660128 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably aren't going to find any between C and Python ... < 1175660133 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about things like C++ and Java. < 1175660135 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function calls are nice and common. < 1175660163 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Python and C are tough... especially because of the differences in blocks. < 1175660169 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175660186 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1175660200 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ShadowHntr < 1175660245 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175660249 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl and PHP are easy. < 1175660704 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is write-only, PHP is domain-specific (no matter what strange people want to do with it) < 1175660851 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing the checksum helped < 1175660858 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is good < 1175660923 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helped A LOT < 1175660952 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ...likes Perl. :( < 1175660974 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody Perl. < 1175660978 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godawful language. < 1175661001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They miserably failed to draw "the line." < 1175661051 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: I'm here sort of. < 1175661119 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION draws the line _________________________________________ < 1175661366 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, CakeProphet, I think i've satisfactorily implemented an algorithm to compare strings < 1175661377 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1175661382 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :happy_song < 1175661513 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here she is: http://pastebin.ca/423400 < 1175661671 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, that's the distance between strings, not a ratio of similarity < 1175662094 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175662524 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1175662531 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it intended for < 1175664364 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175664980 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: finding how similar two strings are < 1175665165 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives a value in the range [0..] < 1175665178 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = the same string < 1175665576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175666273 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt, no I mean... do you want to find typos... or do you want "pure" difference in characters? < 1175666287 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1175666366 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll recognize typos, sure, but i wanted to create an algorithm that recognizes strings like "aaaaaaaaa" and "bbbbbbbbb" as similar < 1175666367 0 :FSi!n=fsi2nd@212.193.74.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175666395 0 :FSi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Arrgh < 1175666420 0 :Arrgh!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FSi < 1175666474 0 :FSi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Hardley < 1175666663 0 :Hardley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175666810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data compression is interesting < 1175666830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1175666852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for typos... addings a transposition operation does wonders. < 1175667001 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transposition in compressed data won't mean much < 1175667286 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175667309 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data compression is the art of finding similarities < 1175667580 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how effective "macro-like" compression would be. < 1175667582 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... < 1175667609 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you split data up and then check each of their similarities. < 1175667664 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could find parts that are similar to a large number of these chunks... and abstract that as a "macro"... which can take arguments corresponding to the differences. < 1175667681 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just backreferences < 1175667697 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lz77 < 1175667712 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1175667715 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... < 1175667800 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x5=Hello,\0! < 1175667858 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could compress anything that had that pattern into a macro like x(World) x(Goats) etc < 1175667911 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for redundency that isn't always linear. < 1175668065 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175668648 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just make the decompressor an interpreter for a turing complete language... < 1175668827 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-178-240.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1175669911 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1175669917 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a step by step view of bzip2 compressing something < 1175671602 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CCC^ < 1175671715 0 :CCC^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1175671902 0 :nooga!i=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1175671911 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: not universe < 1175671923 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a scene with bounds < 1175671958 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's so many conversations ago O_O < 1175671981 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photons would disappear when they are absorber or they leave the boundaries or hit the virtual photographic film < 1175671988 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absorbed* < 1175672012 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I mentioned something about an "arbitrary bounds" < 1175672036 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175672104 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_tracing < 1175672106 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check that out < 1175672114 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was done in java < 1175672132 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would code in C with inline asm < 1175672246 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cpjava.net/raytraces/DRUN.GIF < 1175672254 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :results r stunning < 1175672437 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the best part of fun will be collecting computers for distributed rendering < 1175672925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g2g bye < 1175672965 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i woludn't exactly call that picture stunning. < 1175673182 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing, maybe. < 1175673599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175673600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175673664 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww, java < 1175673925 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, food < 1175674886 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175676965 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175678106 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-35-203.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175679576 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-137.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175680279 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1175680282 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1175682943 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go sleep, gnight < 1175683022 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"one day to go, then school's out" < 1175687221 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175687277 0 :happy_song!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175689239 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-097.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175690892 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13# I don't feel like dancing # < 1175690921 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about the pink text, but that guy has the most irritating falsetto voice ever. < 1175692231 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION indicates that this might be of some interest to people here: http://jededag.blogspot.com/ < 1175692245 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know more than a little about the story behind it < 1175694488 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaa < 1175696835 0 :helios_!i=helios@peach.n1.helzilla.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175696841 0 :helios_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175699307 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a q q < 1175699837 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175699892 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175700003 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175700069 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175705072 0 :happy_song!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175710122 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175713169 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1175713179 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a server... so I can host a Subversion repository. < 1175713379 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. maybe find a free host... do such things exist? < 1175714142 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175714851 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1175715162 0 :atrapado!i=opened@54.Red-81-47-7.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175715776 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175715878 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175715915 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1175716351 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175717785 0 :nooga!i=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1175719256 0 :LookA!n=gareth@S0106000393e6a931.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175719274 0 :LookA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howdy < 1175719301 0 :fax!n=lol@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175719313 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1175719323 0 :LookA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does exist. < 1175719351 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1175719358 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are tunes logging this < 1175719381 0 :LookA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175719405 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people wake up in the morning and read #esoteric logs instead of the newspaper. < 1175719418 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1175719601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points out that he reads #esoteric logs _and_ the newspaper. < 1175719667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although truth be told, i usually read #esoteric logs first. < 1175721033 0 :LookA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: !help < 1175721076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ! must be first on line < 1175721231 0 :LookA!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, thanks. < 1175721770 0 :LookA!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175722187 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-188.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175722517 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175722539 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-190-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175723285 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175724063 0 :dub_!i=opened@71.Red-81-47-13.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175724989 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175725229 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1175725239 0 :dub_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :atrapado < 1175725325 0 :Ryacko!n=chatzill@pool-71-106-9-229.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175725481 0 :Ryacko!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please say "Hello, World!" < 1175725504 0 :Ryacko!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175725788 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooo < 1175725807 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi bsmntbombdood < 1175725859 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are welcome to join #lispcafe as is everyone else here :D < 1175725883 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#lispcafe? < 1175725920 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yet another lisp channel, but there is good discussion a lot of the time < 1175726716 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea for an esolang recently < 1175726738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1175726740 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be an emo-person based programming language called "Theirspace" < 1175726756 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the emo people (enodes) are arranged in a graph < 1175726795 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can exchange messages via comments, and internally store opinions of other enodes (an endex, or emo-index). < 1175726813 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endices are naturally the product of what other people say about a specific person < 1175726845 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so comments can include phrases with specific meanings like "you suck" or "this person sucks" that influence endices. < 1175726866 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the opposite of sucking would be being "totally HxC" < 1175726868 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1175726898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the effect of the message "NN always lies about other people" < 1175726931 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and enodes can also store rules imparted via comments from enodes they respect, like "don't listen to " or "tell people who write poetry to kill themselves" < 1175726960 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, gonad < 1175726971 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two data types, testicles and ovaries < 1175726973 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1175726993 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules can also be obeyed or ignored based on the cliques enodes belong to < 1175727061 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you guys think? Does it show promise? < 1175727138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like it requires AI < 1175727144 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting if you could acutally execute myspace.com < 1175727191 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean? The enodes would just be looking for and generating sequences of canned phrases < 1175727203 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would only be designed to *resemble* online conversations. < 1175727227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1175727314 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I guess you could use Markov chains or something to make it more spontaneous < 1175727327 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could feed in actual emo-speak and the like. < 1175727353 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computation through genetics! < 1175727353 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generate a garbled mishmash of words resembling random emo-speak < 1175727363 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1175727853 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175727868 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175729881 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like.. < 1175729891 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything better than Windows command prompt out there? < 1175729903 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh < 1175729906 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and if you say bash I will FUCKING KILL YOU < 1175729907 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash < 1175729916 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant... for Windows < 1175729939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf would you use windows? < 1175729963 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because I can't get my network adapter to work for Linux. < 1175729976 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and because I don't think Linux is too much better than Windows. < 1175729982 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too extremes. < 1175729985 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two < 1175730022 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't use linux < 1175730025 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use bsd < 1175730032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1175730080 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, try cygwin , a unix environment for windows < 1175730086 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it. < 1175730093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of clumsy < 1175730098 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use. < 1175730120 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is kinda clumsy < 1175730122 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use < 1175730131 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin is fun! < 1175730920 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175731300 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175731332 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is cygwin fun? < 1175731427 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows you to use bash on windows, for one. < 1175731452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you be using windows anyway? < 1175732104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gah, I'm tired" < 1175732203 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work < 1175732230 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha work < 1175733081 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I installed Linux on my work machine < 1175733156 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"can you turing-complete me" < 1175733318 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :na[zZz]gjunk < 1175733446 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1175733452 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric! < 1175733461 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED! < 1175733463 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, that reminds me of something. < 1175733464 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciretose < 1175733482 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reminds me of the word "symbioses". < 1175733502 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm synergy comes to mind < 1175733512 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonads come to mind < 1175733517 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175733524 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out how to model computation with genetics < 1175733544 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out J's computation model :S < 1175733547 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really hard.. < 1175733551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testicles and ovaries swapping their stuff < 1175733568 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Apparently humans have thousands of species of bacteria living inside them. < 1175733584 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning... YOU'RE NOT REALLY HUMAN. (At least, not fully.) < 1175733597 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1175733684 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, e. coli, my close, close friend < 1175733709 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, that's interesting. < 1175733712 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also really gross. < 1175733715 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want me to share? < 1175733742 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. I'm cool with biology. < 1175733777 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go, then: "Bacteria make up . . . 60% of the mass of feces." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora < 1175733823 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1175733825 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1175733831 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very cool. < 1175733842 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes up the remaining 40%? < 1175733851 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it certainly shows that there's no such thing as "waste" < 1175733874 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably difficult to digest things like cellulose < 1175733896 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's eat some cellulose-digesting bacteria! < 1175734044 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd have to engineer it to survive in the very specific heat and ph conditions in the human intestinal tract < 1175734052 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, we could eat wood. < 1175734055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be awesome. < 1175734063 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1175734102 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, do you know how protein digestion works? Surely we don't have enzymes that go around breaking down every protein in sight. < 1175734173 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in most cases, you have enzymes designed to lyse specific amino acid bonds < 1175734211 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only found in certain areas? < 1175734216 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens after the proteins have been denatured by stomach acid, so they're in strands rather than complex folded shapes < 1175734237 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long strands get cut into shorter, more manageable strands progressively < 1175734247 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: yes < 1175734251 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stomach acid denatures them... indeed, it would. Just what is denaturing? < 1175734266 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's when a change in ph alters the folding of a protien < 1175734271 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat can denature as well < 1175734308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1175734318 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why proteins have to be designed to operate in a very specific range, near which they operate at reduced capacity, and beyond which they completely cease functioning < 1175734438 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's related to why humans run fevers when we get sick < 1175734492 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nervous system reacts to infection by raising body temperature- running hot- in order to decrease the efficiency of or destroy invading viruses/bacteria < 1175734526 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if body temperature gets too high, it can start to damage human tissues < 1175734583 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biology is something that just kinda clicks for me, so feel free to ask if you have any other questions < 1175735033 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good with biology too. < 1175735049 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with languages and math, for that matter. :-P < 1175735073 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the second day, did God also create bacteria? < 1175735132 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont think god created anything.. < 1175735187 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages? < 1175735198 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both English and other. < 1175735207 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spanish is my hardest class < 1175735208 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm actually fluent in any other languages. < 1175735232 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the first day, there was nothing. And from nothing came matter, energy, the forces of the universe. Long this universe was sterile and barren, until a chance arrangement of molecules began to self-replicate. That was the moment everything changed. < 1175735276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earth changed plenty. I don't think the other planets noticed. < 1175735574 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically, the two things the human mind is incapable of truly grasping are polar opposites- Nullity and Infinity. I hypothesize that these failings are the root of the perceived requirement for an initial moment, a "beginning of time". < 1175735642 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can manipulate these concepts symbolically, inferring their meanings from their connections to different ideas, but ultimately they just don't fit into people's worldviews. < 1175735764 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175735849 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's nullity? < 1175735931 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero in it's purest form. Nothingness. < 1175736206 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's put "its" in it's purest form, eh? < 1175736230 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwnt. < 1175736231 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero has a purest form? < 1175736253 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the empty set, then? < 1175736262 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fer cryin' out loud, I was speaking figuratively! Can I wax poetic every once in a while? < 1175736273 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1175736278 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you use proper grammar. < 1175736296 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity: that which is greater than every integer. < 1175736342 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr, I would say "number" there. < 1175736361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's feasible that one could define irrational numbers greater than the greatest integer but smaller than infinity. < 1175736384 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, I don't know of any :-P < 1175736430 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no good mathematical definition of "number". < 1175736458 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure there is ... it's the union of the sets "rational number" and "irrational number" < 1175736468 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's "real number". < 1175736489 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, for every real number, there's a bigger integet. < 1175736491 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, damn, that's what I was thinking X_X < 1175736493 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid i < 1175736493 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/integet/integer/ < 1175736570 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My head is melting over my attempts to make sensible reference semantics for Plof :( < 1175736615 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reference semantics? < 1175736645 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I can do things like: associativeArray.element(3) = foo; < 1175736667 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how common lisp does that < 1175736794 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GETHASH returns a regular value, but it's somehow a valid lvalue too < 1175736839 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: make a function called element* or some such that returns a pointer, then have the function element automatically return what it points to? < 1175736847 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have pointers. < 1175736875 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH, are you talking about in the implementation? I'm not worried about the implementation, I'm talking about the language itself. < 1175736888 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that statement equivalent to associativeArray.element*(3, foo);? < 1175736897 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, have a "set" function. < 1175736969 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the assignment operator assign to whatever address the lhs returns < 1175736981 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that's pointers, isn't it? < 1175736989 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with pointers, now? < 1175736991 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, in the implementation < 1175737030 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to do something special with assignment, I'd rather have a generally useful semantic for references ... if possible >_> < 1175737048 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: so... pointers? < 1175737053 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175737061 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pointer (to me) imply pointer arithmetic. < 1175737078 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns. . . < 1175737084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implies < 1175737121 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How couldn't it? < 1175737133 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've lost a bit of context here X-P < 1175737140 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175737155 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then, call them references instead and don't allow pointer arithmetic. < 1175737165 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: That doesn't solve my original problem. < 1175737176 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to be able to do: someobject.blah(3) = 4; < 1175737226 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: references wouldn't allow that? < 1175737238 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the ones you're describing, they'd need an explicit dereference. < 1175737272 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make = always implicitly dereference. < 1175737296 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you want someobject.blah(3) to return an "assignable integer" or something like that? < 1175737299 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could make them real pointers. < 1175737331 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you have an explicit dereference or you have an implicit dereference. Or set functions. < 1175737331 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the crux: I need to return a reference, and that reference needs to have different semantics as an rvalue than it does as an lvalue. However, returning involves passing a value into the return function, so it's an rvalue X_X < 1175737367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an rvalue? < 1175737376 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that isn't an lvalue :) < 1175737381 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an lvalue? < 1175737390 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Return an object < 1175737390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something which can be assigned to. < 1175737410 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I can't overload "=" because of the very nature of Plof. < 1175737412 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when assigning to an object x, put the value in &x < 1175737433 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make simple variable assignment ambiguous X_X < 1175737434 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it needs to have different semantics when it can't be assigned to and when it can? < 1175737458 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My definition wasn't very accurate ... < 1175737479 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then give an accurate one? < 1175737482 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/./ < 1175737494 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a variable 'a' with the value 3, 'a' is a valid lvalue, but evaluated as an rvalue it's 3. < 1175737505 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tryin', I'm tryin' X-P < 1175737510 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Join #plof < 1175737518 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Have them evaluate the same way, is what i'm saying < 1175737749 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lvalues are like... variables? < 1175737773 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#plof! < 1175739009 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, that's a valid question here :P < 1175739015 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variables are an example of lvalues. < 1175739025 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, if it /could/ appear on the left of a =, it's an lvalue. < 1175739236 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1175739305 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION codes up the union of BF and vanilla regexes < 1175739379 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just the bastard child of Lisp and C? < 1175739437 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be too complex. < 1175739521 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we've already got the child of Smalltalk and C++ going in #plof. . . ;) < 1175739941 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175740365 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175743039 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1175746600 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175747722 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: 自分の事を頼まれたか。 < 1175747755 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinky < 1175747855 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :わからなかった。…… < 1175747910 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ぼくは日本語でとても上手じゃない、よ。 < 1175747947 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, xterm knows how to render that, but xchat doesn't < 1175747966 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :おもしろい。…… < 1175748116 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1175748154 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :さあ、上手にななってみるねぇぇ。エレガントな気持だわ。 < 1175748192 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175748202 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh. < 1175748203 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :さあ、上手にななってみるねぇぇ。エレガントな気持だわ。 < 1175748230 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :とにかく、昨日、アンタは私を聞いたいことがあった。何か、あの質問? < 1175748281 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :英語で?エスペラントで? < 1175748314 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, but my Japanese really *isn't* that good. < 1175748358 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :En esperanto: Mi estas japana lingva komencanto. < 1175748586 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :日_日 < 1175748601 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wanted to ask me something in Japanese yesterday. < 1175748604 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it? < 1175748642 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo hablo espannol bien! < 1175748651 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to say that I got my IME working. . . < 1175748655 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's all I said. < 1175748657 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-' < 1175748661 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1175748694 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, you think 「やった!」is a question. . . XD < 1175748708 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no entiendo tampoco < 1175749243 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I could've sworn you asked me something *shrug*. < 1175749893 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ALL GET A ROSE - http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j316/adamadamadamamiadam/rose.jpg < 1175749965 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@>--- < 1175750037 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-,-`-@ < 1175750088 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1175750263 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--{--{@ < 1175750487 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes the channel name to #flowers < 1175750619 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm.... C-like include stuff is kind of bad methinks < 1175750634 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... wrong channel... but we're all pretty much over on #plof too < 1175750689 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ. < 1175750697 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not. < 1175750718 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, my personal language has a #include-like "source" command. < 1175751318 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-182-125.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1175752510 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175753358 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was working on the operator listing for Bullet, and this is really looking out of hand: < 1175753359 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1175749566.html < 1175753371 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone suggest good places to trim things down? < 1175753395 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or for that matter, anything I foolishly left out) < 1175753587 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually looks just fine < 1175753587 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kinda considering overloading the bitwise and logical operations on top of each other with some type of syntax to specify that the operations are working in a particular mode, but that doesn't simplify anything < 1175753593 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1175753622 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bout using just a bitwise not as '!' < 1175753647 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work < 1175753668 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll consider that < 1175753744 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering completely removing the assignment operator family in favor of a different way of structuring commands that are entirely assignments. < 1175753767 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when you really get down to it, they aren't conventional "operators" < 1175753783 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would pare it down a bit < 1175753784 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, though i think it still is < 1175753789 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'=' should be left there < 1175753833 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if((i=getidx())>=0){ printf("Name: %s\n",array[i]); } < 1175753845 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, i use that all the time < 1175753870 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, getting rid of =/== differences could dramatically reduce a number of types of coding errors. < 1175753917 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while that one-liner is clever, it doesn't really demonstrate good coding practice. It doesn't ultimately save any operations once it runs through a compiler. < 1175753942 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i think it cuts out an instruction or two < 1175753961 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing i=getidx() on its own reloads i entirely, i think < 1175753991 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think reducing operator ambiguity is important < 1175754004 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. MOV [0x456789],eax | MOV ecx,[0x456789] < 1175754032 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i find it still faily readable, and less cluttering < 1175754044 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i prefer if(){ oneline; } to if() oneline; < 1175754056 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always code like that < 1175754085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm definitely going to make block delimiters for one-liners required. < 1175754094 0 :Arrogant!n=Arrogatn@166.orlando-09rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175754109 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it improves readability if tabbing gets fucked up or someone has odd whitespace conventions < 1175754172 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my old plan for tomato and new plan for potato, you had no choice because anything between {} is a function, and if was like if(cond,{stuff;}); < 1175754191 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing if(cond,stuff); would make stuff execute unconditionally < 1175754205 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1175754217 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the same with plof < 1175754240 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's another thing- do you think powering should be a primitive operator? < 1175754244 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some weird-ass reason, stuff from plof seems to have seeped into tomato which potato is based on < 1175754253 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think XORing should be < 1175754255 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java abstracts it, and I think C does as well < 1175754268 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1175754268 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, the ^ operator is XOR < 1175754274 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1175754279 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you'd be right. . . < 1175754285 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what the lang is for < 1175754304 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost never used (and I'd say never necessary) for logical expressions, but a bitwise version would be handy < 1175754315 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's algebra-intensive, it should be an operator < 1175754330 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it handle x^0.5 ? < 1175754337 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1175754339 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos that's sqrt < 1175754351 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, leave it in for now < 1175754357 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of floating point things about that op that could get complex < 1175754362 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves having to go (x+y)*(x+y) < 1175754372 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it as a loop multiplier < 1175754397 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a bitwise XOR should be added for sure, and we'll see about powering < 1175754457 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think XOR should be ~ < 1175754463 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: no that's not < 1175754466 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT < 1175754471 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and logical XOR should be ~~ for consistency < 1175754471 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise NOT < 1175754499 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc and dec aren't really *necessary* and once again don't act like most operators, (they're in the assignment family) but they would help the compiler along a bit < 1175754504 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "NOT" is declared as '!' - this ain't LUA < 1175754522 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you guys are talking about < 1175754528 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "INC eax" is faster and smaller than "ADD eax,0x00000001" < 1175754536 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175754538 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1175754542 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my point < 1175754547 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LUA uses "~" as its not. but this ain't LUA. < 1175754643 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should bitwise shift right and left take parameters? < 1175754680 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as there's SHL eax,(param) , and it shouldn't be too hard, yes < 1175754689 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1175754862 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea for assignments is to do them in blocks like "set parameter as expression" or "set [parameters] as [expression]" < 1175754884 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1175754892 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, go with that < 1175754904 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is consistent with function call syntax of "do [parameters] to [parameters]" < 1175754916 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i should make an algebraic calculator < 1175754928 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did one of those a while back- it's pretty fun < 1175754945 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is based on BASIC, right? < 1175754961 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way, yeah, but not very strongly < 1175754969 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC was around earlier < 1175754979 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BASIC influenced some basic syntax ideas < 1175754991 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C also took a lot from FORTRAN, if I recall < 1175754997 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just love how i can just punch in a math function into C and BASIC < 1175755015 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can do the same in Pascal < 1175755016 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, their expressions are pretty similar < 1175755034 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most good programming languages use standard math < 1175755051 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC one-ups C with the cool feature of being an interpreted language- eval(). < 1175755087 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most BASICs are lacking in bitwise operators- vital for a language that'll be compiling to machinecode < 1175755088 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Tcl one-ups Basic with the cool feature of having functions. < 1175755096 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC has functions < 1175755097 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the BASIC dialect though < 1175755113 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBASIC has functions but no eval() < 1175755115 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function name(params) return < 1175755119 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume, of course, traditional "burnt into microcomputer's ROM" BASIC. ;) < 1175755123 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a code block before the return < 1175755151 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC BASIC had functions ("procedures") < 1175755174 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Fine. Tcl's got this funny thing called "a sane syntax". < 1175755184 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC has had functions nearly since it's conception, dude. TINYBASIC implementations for minicomputers with 4k of ram were what gave everyone a bad impression of the language < 1175755190 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dartmouth BASIC owned < 1175755204 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do a number of modern BASICs < 1175755216 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175755225 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call me up when they've got good list processing functions. < 1175755253 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have completely missed the point of BASIC. congratulations. < 1175755270 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being sarcastic. -_-' < 1175755287 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION started out on BASIC. . . Which is, of course, the whole point < 1175755329 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. I'm not sure if the convenience of just "set parameter as expression" for single assignments outweighs its inconsistencey. < 1175755366 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might stick with simply "set [parameters] as [expressions]" at all times for that sake. < 1175755516 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any EE students here? < 1175755521 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1175755531 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps GreaseMonkey with a trout. < 1175755556 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a CS, but I'm reasonably handy with electronics. Think I might be able to help? < 1175755588 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When applying Kirchoff's Rules, is there one I per loop? < 1175755610 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electricity/magnetism has captured my heart. < 1175755621 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I love it more than computers :P < 1175755630 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-O < 1175755635 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<: O < 1175755647 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the christ? < 1175755667 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's named Jesus, not What. :p < 1175755667 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to go to #esoteric-ee now ? :( < 1175755676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can physics be more fascinating than a deterministic logic engine? < 1175755697 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: do not feel shunned < 1175755702 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am simply puzzled < 1175755719 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is. < 1175755757 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can nondeterminism be more fascinating to a Vulcan mindset than determinism? < 1175755760 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1175755809 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can mount a set of permanent magnets on the opposite sides of a doorknob, and place a wire loop connected to a switch to a battery surrounding the doorknob, in which one end perpendicular to a magnetic field is mounted inside of an insulator (but still allowing the magnetic field to exert the force), causing the wire to rotate and effectively causing a lock on the doorknob, if you have current running through the switch. < 1175755822 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can make that lock with a few calculations, and $0.05 stuff. < 1175755828 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why :P < 1175755858 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like fiddling with things in my junk drawer and my multitool until they work properly. < 1175755859 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but *I* can devise a simulation of that door and make a virtual room with a wall of locked doors. < 1175755870 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nondeterministic is far more fascinating to me < 1175755885 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I got the engineering bug. < 1175755898 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I who've been interested with such impractical things all my life. It feels weird to even me. < 1175755928 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics are just mechanical systems to me, whereas a computer is a meta-machine that translates intangible information into action < 1175755932 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: But that virtual door won't stop your sister from turning off the lights while you're doing homework, or stop your parents from spying on you at night when you're supposed to be ``sleeping''. < 1175755948 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: No, it won't. < 1175755957 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll make them afraid of doing so. < 1175755961 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not mine. < 1175755975 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1175755982 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intellectually, I pwn everyone around here. . . < 1175755984 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but engineering is a highly creative, yet productive process. It's not surprising your interests could move in that direction from programming < 1175755987 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll stop your virtual sister < 1175756005 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were I really, truly angry, I would be able to exact revenge without hurting a single physical object. < 1175756009 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My parents don't need to care about that. < 1175756029 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My parents are electronics-dependant. < 1175756032 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawrsh, those are pretty pictures. *Plugs out computer*. You're supposed to be a mindless Indian engineer who hates her job! Fool! < 1175756075 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could, if necessary, instate a ransom on all of their data. . . And they'd either follow through or be broke. < 1175756090 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not done so simply because they're not jerks, and therefore not deserving. < 1175756113 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has just gotten a cracker streak. . . Where the hell did that come from?!? < 1175756138 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nasty little superiority complex you have stewing there. You might want to get your antisocial tendencies looked at. < 1175756161 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame my friend when I asked him to help me with < $0.05 easy to hide antenna designs. < 1175756166 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hooked me. < 1175756186 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1175756202 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might want to wonder WTF I'm thinking. < 1175756215 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like making robotic insects out of busted toys. < 1175756216 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain, please synchronise with reality. < 1175756259 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least make intellectual arrogance less blatant. < 1175756285 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing like spending 6 hours bringing life to a tiny machine only to have it stab you in the finger and then fall off the table. < 1175756310 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually tough little critters but not so much when I install solar cells. < 1175756330 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks breaking those things. < 1175756431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEAM robotics really creates a new perspective on how complex a machine has to be to "survive" as insects do. Once you try making something with just a handful of transistors that you can just release in your yard and find alive weeks later you wind up having an epiphany. < 1175756521 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: please tell me you'll try BEAMbotics. It's friggin' awesome. < 1175756543 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to sleep in hopes of waking up a lesser idiot < 1175756591 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki article is a pretty good intro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEAM_robotics < 1175756644 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might build a simulator < 1175756663 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1175756811 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really only a beginner with "bicore" analog neural networks, but I find them fascinating < 1175757099 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night everyone- I'm gonna turn in < 1175757114 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1175757496 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175758404 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back anyways < 1175759638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" but then, we could eat wood." you can eat wood. < 1175759999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175760000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175760823 0 :na[zZz]gjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1175762769 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's BEAMBotics? < 1175762776 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1175764176 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-188.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175771319 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go to sleep, oyasumi nasai < 1175771452 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"skoolz owt fank yu" < 1175772378 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Common Lisp has a quite neat setters and getters system. Haskell has the cleanest system for mutable variables I have every seen, though it is rather verbose. You could also look at bash for ideas. (different name for varibles when setting than when getting) And False (esolang) has a good system too. < 1175772423 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RodgerTheGreat and GreaseMonkey were having a conversation that was seriously insulting to the intelligence of compiler-writers last night < 1175772426 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1175772841 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calculates the power density of the sun < 1175772858 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is humerously low: 0.27 W/m^3 < 1175772899 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wonder the people building fusion reactors are having such a hard time. < 1175774414 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-048-134.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175776501 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1175776670 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175781419 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1175784653 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: you think you could create a strong enough force like that? < 1175785359 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gut tells me that it takes a lot of torque to stop a doorknob from turning < 1175785549 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175785597 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the wire tightens onto the doorknob? < 1175785656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be easier to just use a lock < 1175785669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i somehow misunderstood the point :) < 1175785739 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: welcome to #esoteric < 1175785852 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't "just use a lock" < 1175786055 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuu < 1175787832 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'morning, folks < 1175787866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you attain noticeable forces without using a month's worth of electricity? < 1175787908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just making coils from the wire :P < 1175787925 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175788302 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuyu < 1175791580 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175796949 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175799374 0 :atrapado!n=opened@214.Red-81-47-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175800511 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175800536 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175801488 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1175801494 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1175802828 0 :dub__!i=opened@230.Red-81-47-10.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175802834 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1175802843 0 :dub__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :atrapado < 1175806280 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1175806548 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite my general disdain for decentralized SCM, I'm starting to quite like darcs >_> < 1175808589 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-57.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175809633 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-178-063.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175809733 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175810122 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175810293 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175810294 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175810592 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175814478 0 :kbrooks!n=kbrooks@d235-141-58.home1.cgocable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175814485 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this? < 1175814500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about weird programming languages < 1175814503 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please leave this channel, and rejoin. < 1175814509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1175814523 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, some one write the first 16 numbers of the Fibonacci Sequence. < 1175814546 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ok, so thats a exception... < 1175814567 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault (core dumped) < 1175814578 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh bsmntbombdood < 1175814641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 and why did i do this by hand... < 1175814646 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say hi. < 1175814658 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/topic < 1175814666 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1175814704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1175814718 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1175814731 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some code generation magic in IRP. < 1175814750 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please show me the 'Hello World' program in C" < 1175814775 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(){return *(int*)0;} < 1175814775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1175814777 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> int main() { printf("Hello World\n"); return 0; } < 1175814779 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ there it is < 1175814817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, parallel processing < 1175814835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just slightly buggy < 1175814914 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaa http://texas.clubsi.com/Aaron/ClubSi/CB.JPG < 1175814929 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, meh < 1175815039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you could make one for innumerates... < 1175815071 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279 and why did i do this by hand.... < 1175815157 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I know more than you < 1175815190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since no one asked... < 1175815208 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that's 30 digits i think < 1175815218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't be bothered to go to 50 < 1175815222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do _not_ have fibonacci numbers memorized beyond 13 < 1175815234 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105 < 1175815244 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :51 decimal places < 1175815263 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have pi memorized to 51 decimal places, I just calculated it on the fly < 1175815273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, all right then. < 1175815286 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175815287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were a snob or something ;) < 1175815329 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1415926 i don't know more digits < 1175815334 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when does one need more? < 1175815388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you are writing an infinite precision trigonometry library, i guess < 1175815435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that pesky sin(10^1000) < 1175815494 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about 0.6533597982103698569480994680397685742659165408154051592053714008289739109316094727701317615597375546 < 1175815549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a fact? :) < 1175815570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you calculate it? < 1175815577 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i typed it into mathematica < 1175815602 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.acc.umu.se/%7Ezqad/cats/index.html?view=1168702253-1167481579703.png < 1175816287 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175821261 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175822276 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sumaesuma" < 1175822491 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Away for the weekend, don't expect me back until sunday evening CET, at the very earliest" < 1175827623 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175829315 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1175829414 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175829824 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Yah." < 1175829871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1175830566 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175831074 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175832221 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175832244 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.faisal.com/geek/opcodes.txt < 1175833338 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-170-11.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1175835725 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt, what's with your bot? < 1175835733 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175835742 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't it on? < 1175835745 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1175835751 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd < 1175835764 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175835783 0 :bsmnt_bot!n=bsmnt@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175835796 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONRADULATIONS!!!1 < 1175836297 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on an operbot right now < 1175836313 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having two bots on at once is a bit overkill < 1175836437 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you brought your bot in, that'd be three ... < 1175836442 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: Hello my friend. < 1175836449 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two bots on the same pc, that is < 1175836461 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two in a chan is fine < 1175836494 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as there are more people than bots (except #botpark ), it's fine < 1175837719 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175839943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'operbot'? < 1175839961 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operbot = a bot that does op stuff for your chan < 1175839984 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it ban everybody from #esoteric? < 1175840004 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it won't unless you make it do that in the source < 1175840006 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's ChanServ? < 1175840015 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1175840032 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like `kick agentorange < 1175840040 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and `topic Very cool channel < 1175840048 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't even need to be an op < 1175840048 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like chanserv < 1175840053 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, like chanserv < 1175840068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1175840119 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can kick people without the +o < 1175840127 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff like that < 1175840309 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chanserv can op people < 1175840316 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as set channel modes and stuff < 1175840332 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: so can chanserv < 1175840349 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it couldn't kick ppls < 1175840360 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it can < 1175840368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1175840376 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can still op you and then you kick the person yourself. < 1175840386 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kicking is practically useless anyway. < 1175840390 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the point? < 1175840408 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1175840413 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that `kick foo is faster than /cs op greasemonkey then /kick #chan foo < 1175840415 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :access of 8 for voice? O.o < 1175840427 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`kb foo < 1175840428 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sharpens his finger then pokes lament  < 1175840435 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`kb foo barmsg < 1175840463 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`silence foo < 1175840465 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1175840483 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+v all good citizens, +m channel) < 1175840495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -q < 1175840500 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-q? < 1175840519 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silence < 1175840521 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still fail to see how is this useful < 1175840532 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes lament again < 1175840544 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful because you flex your coding muscles :P < 1175840545 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to kick people so badly < 1175840546 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get ops < 1175840562 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you want to be an undercover op that jumps out and kicks people randomly? < 1175840564 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoo! Hydrogen. < 1175840567 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows. < 1175840569 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I WANNA KICK PEOPLE! Can I have ops ZOMG 8-D < 1175840587 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe pm kick < 1175840588 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o GregorR < 1175840595 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAYS! < 1175840597 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175840605 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1175840610 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1175840612 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reign of terror!!! < 1175840619 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muahahaahahahha < 1175840627 0 :bsmnt_bot!n=bsmnt@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175840632 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1175840635 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick evasion!!! < 1175840638 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!! < 1175840664 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b %bsmnt_bot!*@* < 1175840666 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`kick bsmnt_bot < 1175840674 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1175840679 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to me, bsmnt_bot 8-D < 1175840680 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys have access at 30? O.o < 1175840686 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b %bsmnt_bot!*@* < 1175840689 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that was fun. < 1175840692 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o GregorR < 1175840712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh woww < 1175840722 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taaus hasn't been here for 2 years :( < 1175840743 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2y 8w 3d 14h 45m 41s < 1175840750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aardappel for a year and a half... :( < 1175840757 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are they? < 1175840766 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of 4/5/07 19:22:13 GMT-10 < 1175840769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aardappel is a genius, taaus is just cool < 1175840788 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the log! < 1175840903 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot! < 1175840907 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to log in? :( < 1175840931 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no bmn access! < 1175840933 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo. < 1175841410 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose a non-esoteric project. < 1175841418 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175841420 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for the gasps. < 1175841423 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a non-esoteric language. < 1175841439 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already working on it :D < 1175841450 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://student.hpa.edu:16080/weblog/cmcfarland/ProgrammingDesign/ < 1175841458 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cross-platform PDF viewer. < 1175841466 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1175841469 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not working on it :P < 1175841478 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely cross-platform. Maybe a little bit of bootstrap code per platform, but hopefully not. < 1175841495 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language of design: ObjC, OCaML, or Java -- in order of speed. < 1175841515 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wot? No C++? :( < 1175841524 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175841534 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah, yeah... :P < 1175841539 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I said no esoteric languages :P < 1175841544 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1175841555 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see some of the weirder stuff I write in C++... < 1175841585 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once attempted to wrap a SWIG wrapper around C++ code that heavily used Boost and templates. < 1175841595 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly found a new disrespect for the language. < 1175841600 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWIG? < 1175841615 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, templated/boost code can get very hard to read if you aren't careful < 1175841625 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWIG lets you use C/C++ code in languages that support SWIG wrappers without a specific FFI built-in for the language. < 1175841626 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although things like boost::any are quite clean, imo.) < 1175841635 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm not an actual C++ coder after all. < 1175841640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I want to do something in objc < 1175841651 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFI? < 1175841652 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ObjC hmmm? < 1175841658 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone proposed OCaML earlier. < 1175841687 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a C++ coder... it's what I know :P < 1175841694 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see. < 1175841701 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's the only thing your head has enough room left for :P < 1175841714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stand C++ < 1175841721 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you kidding? < 1175841724 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is HUGE < 1175841728 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is terrible < 1175841738 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175841744 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say it's _terrible_ < 1175841751 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is rather annoying sometimes < 1175841794 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what makes it terrible. < 1175841815 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like languages which I don't have to devote my entire life to to code in. < 1175841902 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175841913 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't devoted my whole life to C++ < 1175841916 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only 18 :P < 1175841940 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly, it's taken me about 5 years to get "good" at it < 1175841958 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1175841969 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I wish C++ had a 'finally' key word :| < 1175841976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ < 1175841979 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd save so much fucking trouble < 1175841987 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://dgcc.sourceforge.net/ < 1175842042 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm younger than you, and I don't want to be your age by the time I become profficient at it :P < 1175842055 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I don't want to use D is that it's not well-enough-known yet. < 1175842070 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something that compiles to a lot of platforms. < 1175842113 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired of having either Xpdf and I-leak-memory-like-a-burst-blood-vessel Poppler in t3h *nix world and Adobe's locked-in proprietary thingamabobber in Windows. < 1175842127 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foxit Reader? < 1175842152 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not open! < 1175842199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it has Advanced Add-Ons you can pay for. < 1175842200 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh. < 1175842207 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just guh. < 1175842241 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175842245 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bothers me too a bit < 1175842263 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1175842279 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should program your pdf viewer in brainfuck :) < 1175842283 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, any takers for the project? < 1175842298 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1175842303 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google code has project hosting? < 1175842306 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was also seriously considering Forth, because it's stack-based just like PS/PDF so.... < 1175842333 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has stacks :D < 1175842345 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1175842387 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ probably has Your Mom also. < 1175842390 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point? :P < 1175842422 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1175842427 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has rapists < 1175842429 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ -- there's the point! < 1175842431 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That's a period/full-stop. < 1175842438 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175842446 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can call it a 'point' if I really want to ... :) < 1175842451 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1175842452 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A point has an infinitely small thickness, remember? < 1175842456 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGROFL < 1175842464 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This project currently has no issues." < 1175842476 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr? < 1175842485 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... yeah < 1175842493 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Cough* < 1175842498 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: shouldn't be hard to make it cross platform < 1175842569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1175842589 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hate xpdf's interface < 1175842589 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1175842596 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind it. < 1175842608 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work will begin after AP tests finish. < 1175842613 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My feet are hairy. < 1175842623 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized this. < 1175842632 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..................................... < 1175842636 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright-o. < 1175842658 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My head is hairy. < 1175842663 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Java, bsmntbombdood? :P < 1175842673 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'd hope so... otherwise you'd be bald. < 1175842674 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo!! < 1175842684 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that bad, if you code correctly. < 1175842690 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It is. < 1175842694 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is that bad. < 1175842695 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It's not. < 1175842697 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's what they say about C++ :) < 1175842699 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not that bad. < 1175842719 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason Java might not fly is speed. < 1175842720 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is mostly C++ with a few changes. < 1175842729 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175842733 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, a syntax that doesen't make you barf? < 1175842733 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't write your project in Java < 1175842734 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: ......... no. < 1175842739 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: um, noo < 1175842745 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite different :P < 1175842750 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1175842756 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much different < 1175842760 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1175842770 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garbage collection. Exceptions. < 1175842776 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has those < 1175842778 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No explicit memory management. < 1175842783 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has garbage collection? < 1175842786 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java has eliminated everything that doesn't fit their "OO is the only way" concept. < 1175842789 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God help us all. < 1175842815 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple ways of doing GC either directly in C++ or on top of it < 1175842821 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1175842823 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there < 1175842828 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are ways of doing GC in C too. < 1175842831 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1175842843 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it isn't built in, but neither is std::vector < 1175842846 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is better than c++ < 1175842851 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175842866 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- officially no longer part of this conversation. < 1175842877 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION officially pulls Gregor back in. < 1175842894 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I didn't say C++ was better than java < 1175842906 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said it was about the same in terms of the way it's built. there's a difference ;) < 1175842916 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't in my list of languages. So there. < 1175842921 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1175842930 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1175842935 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java, OCaML, ObjC and why. < 1175842935 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: java is too slow < 1175842942 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1175842944 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Mmmm. I beg to differ. < 1175842955 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: have you used open-office? < 1175842956 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever coded a significant application yourself? < 1175842964 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in java, no < 1175842968 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than rely on cr** code other people make? < 1175842986 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I coded an NN framework and a small signal process framework in it. < 1175843006 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both fast and light, and this is an aging machine. (1.6 GHz, 256 MB RAM). < 1175843034 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even while using double-point floats almost everywhere. < 1175843053 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah blah blah, this is better that is better, blah blah blah, my god has a bigger penis than your god, blah blah blah. < 1175843068 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1175843080 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I have Physics to cram for. Squabble it out for yerselves. < 1175843158 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Your god has a penis? :P < 1175843196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: In a totally non-homoerotic way. < 1175843210 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: my penis has a bigger god than brainfuck's < 1175843216 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1175843225 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no god. < 1175843245 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: Then my god does have a bigger penis than your god. Therefore I win all arguments. < 1175843249 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a bow. < 1175843269 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a god, therefore the argument is 'N/A' :P < 1175843277 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: no < 1175843285 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your god can't have a bigger penis than something that doesn't exist ;) < 1175843293 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even imaginatively ;) < 1175843301 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a penis is bigger than no penis < 1175843311 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really? < 1175843336 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying an apple is bigger than the number zero. < 1175843345 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1175843358 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. It's an illogical comparison ;) < 1175843376 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1175843379 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares? :P < 1175843387 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's silly. < 1175843541 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vacuous truth < 1175843621 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F = Figs's god's penis < 1175843624 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G = GregorR's < 1175843631 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1175843639 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare this conversation over. < 1175843675 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1175843691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, everybody go talk about how whootsy http://www.codu.org/plof/ is :) < 1175843695 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The language, not the web site ;) < 1175843697 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1175843713 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\forall x \in F.\forall y \in G. y > x < 1175843716 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUTH < 1175843738 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but F is the null pointer! < 1175843741 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175843745 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if F is the empty set < 1175843757 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can < 1175843760 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall x in F < 1175843762 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work < 1175843766 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is no x in F? < 1175843788 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my empty set is bigger than your empty set? < 1175843791 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah? Prove it. < 1175843859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vacuously true < 1175843990 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vacuous: noun. (1) Emptied of or lacking content. (2) marked by lack of ideas or intelligence: stupid, inane. < 1175843993 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adjective < 1175844029 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf wikipedia < 1175844045 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFGI < 1175844093 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John found good igloos? < 1175844102 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fucking google it < 1175844126 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jfgi? webster. :P < 1175844161 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you meant your argument, no thanks. I don't want penis in my browser. :P < 1175844187 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes the subject < 1175844195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To Plof! < 1175844210 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof? < 1175844215 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/plof/ < 1175844217 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put lead on food? < 1175844242 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1175844245 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1175844254 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw function thick < 1175844257 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I read "fuck" < 1175844258 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I < 1175844261 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought... < 1175844264 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1175844267 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck is a keyword???" < 1175844274 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh. < 1175844276 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1175844278 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var you = Figs; fuck you; < 1175844279 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Painful Licking Of the French < 1175844289 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1175844292 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1175844292 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLOFF! < 1175844313 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pitiful licking of french fries! < 1175844346 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the ~= operator in D? < 1175844351 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1175844363 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ~ is concatenation. ~= is to ~ as += is to + < 1175844370 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175844446 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should the function in foreach be given the current element? < 1175844461 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a "ref"? < 1175844482 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :std.plof < 1175844499 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's commented out because I don't have an implementation of it yet :P < 1175844516 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was from the leading edge of Plof1. < 1175844528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didn't see the comments < 1175844536 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading code in browser == bad < 1175844539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1175844651 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bedtime < 1175844663 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight < 1175844677 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`night bsmntbombdood < 1175844818 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1175844828 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1175844841 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to get up in 5:30 hours < 1175844879 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1175844886 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1175844898 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks. < 1175844902 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go get some zzz. < 1175844910 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK < 1175844941 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tickles the zzz-machine < 1175844998 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZZZ!!!! < 1175845015 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the ZZZ-machine has explosmed.* < 1175845180 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1175845231 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1175846351 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1175846399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175846400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175846484 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1175846507 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1175849682 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175851133 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-71-218.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175851408 0 :gg_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175851888 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the meaning of the word 'deasil'? < 1175852033 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is ``you'' ? < 1175852218 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here who cares enough to look the word up :P < 1175852245 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it's the opposite of widdershins < 1175852263 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any you's here then. < 1175852324 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1175852348 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clockwise? < 1175852490 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah. < 1175852549 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: Go and spend that time doing something useful. < 1175852553 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like making more Esolangs. < 1175852615 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abscotchalater: n. one hiding from the police. < 1175852703 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overgregarious < 1175852708 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look that one up. < 1175852817 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pshhh < 1175853908 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175855610 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna get off, gnight < 1175855674 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1175855676 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1175855678 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1175856248 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnight, and remember to troll the #teamloosh channel on irc.bluehell.org" < 1175856532 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175858389 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1175859300 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-182-160.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175859377 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it < 1175865592 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175866900 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175869198 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175870904 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175871915 0 :nooga!n=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1175872066 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-71-218.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175872185 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175872185 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1175872189 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1175872211 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80-162.cust.umeaenergi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1175875325 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@81.152.252.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175875354 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175877055 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.198.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175878299 0 :CRathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175879770 0 :kbrooks!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175882327 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175883571 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175884120 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1175888022 0 :CRathman_!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175888507 0 :CRathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175888650 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175888686 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175890117 0 :atrapado!i=opened@183.Red-81-47-6.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175892226 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175892281 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a formal definition of Turing-completeness? < 1175892386 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, yes: turing machines, lambda calculus < 1175892406 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "Turing machines, lambda calculus" it? < 1175892424 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1175892503 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175892505 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175894059 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175894201 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: yes, there is < 1175894225 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: look up the church-turing thesis on wikipedia... < 1175894512 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a definition there, other than "Any non-interactive computer program can be translated into a Turing machine, and any Turing machine can be translated into any Turing complete programming language". < 1175894670 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1175894682 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose there's a more formal statement of the thesis by the saints themselves < 1175894748 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing-completeness, not the Church-Turing thesis... < 1175894780 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-233-208.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175894783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: it's related < 1175894820 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related, yes, but I'm looking for a definition of Turing-completeness. < 1175894929 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175895274 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175895719 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175898372 0 :bsmnt_bot!n=bsmnt@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175898396 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175898602 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-71-218.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175898820 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1175899078 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175899080 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1175899136 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175899348 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should I use for a PDF viewer: Java, OCaML, or ObjC and why? < 1175899373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the nonexistence of the CFC (Catch Fire and Continue) instruction. < 1175899427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml because it pwns all the others mentioned < 1175899463 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah-hah. < 1175899499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively you could use Scala if you want JVM support. < 1175899541 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language has to be relatively common. < 1175899639 0 :CRathman_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python has a nice pdf library available < 1175899642 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: f00f (or so it's called) comes close. < 1175899648 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait a minute. < 1175899655 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to depend on an external library. < 1175899658 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1175899742 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC, because it's fast and looks interesting < 1175899767 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... ah, never mind. < 1175899896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought for a moment ihope was responding to the PDF question and wondered what programming language f00f was... < 1175899942 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll design an esolang and call it f00f, and add a CFC instruction. < 1175899958 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also damages the ozone layer! < 1175899970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes! and added bonus. < 1175899973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1175900443 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one's lobbying languages. < 1175900445 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1175900472 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshhh. Y'all'r boring. < 1175900568 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's write a programming language that has a market economy instead of a command economy. < 1175900609 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did < 1175900617 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of individuals, which are issued... things which they can trade to each other. < 1175900621 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you did? < 1175900629 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ObjC, because it's fast and looks interesting < 1175900678 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one's lobbying other than bsmntbombdood :( < 1175900691 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ocaml because it pwns all the others mentioned < 1175900734 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C has a market economy? < 1175900753 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1175900813 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe... < 1175900897 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...maybe the individuals go around reproducing and evolving and dying and stuff, and the only way you can do anything is by controlling the Fed. < 1175901190 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you output this character, I'll give you a dollar." < 1175901243 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make it so that the only trade you can do is buying and selling. That way, no trade can happen unless there's money in the world. < 1175901303 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amount of money determines the amount of trade: if there's only one indivisible unit of money in the world, everything is either available for free, not available, or available for the price of one unit. < 1175901305 0 :CRathman_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1175901352 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff with utility probably won't be free, so that means that which is available costs one unit. < 1175901449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i suspect Scala is as portable as Java, being built on top of it. < 1175901465 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1175901513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't know for sure, since i have never actually tried it. < 1175901819 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"atra pa do" < 1175901900 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...behold - a very convuluted cat program < 1175901926 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4267 < 1175901979 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = getContents >>= putStr < 1175901986 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is very different indeed. < 1175902019 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much hope you can write a better cat program than that in Python. < 1175902023 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1175902055 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that not only copy-input-to-output but a concatenator? < 1175902057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = interact id < 1175902078 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while True: print raw_input() < 1175902097 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that too, yes. < 1175902110 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1175902124 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = getContents >> putStr "" < 1175902128 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was actually a library for Python generators I was messing with... making a cat program out of it sounded like a good test. < 1175902132 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A different kind of zero program. < 1175902158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that getContents seems somewhat redundant < 1175902300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = getChar >>= putChar >> main < 1175902488 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write a shorter one in BASH. < 1175902547 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat takes files from its argv < 1175902715 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say main=interact id is the winner. < 1175902742 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not a quine: main=main < 1175902813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import System.Environment; main = getArgs >>= mapM_ (putStr . readFile) < 1175902845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh wait < 1175903004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import System.Environment; main = getArgs >>= mapM_ ((putStr =<<) . readFile) < 1175903308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, good luck putStr'ing that. < 1175903345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, something wrong with it? < 1175903355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import readline, sys; for i in readline.readline(): sys.stdout.write(i) < 1175903386 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You corrected it for a reason, aye? < 1175903405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1175903964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = flip mapM_ [putStr, print] $ flip ($) "main = flip mapM_ [putStr, print] $ flip ($) " < 1175904093 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1175904128 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStr x >> print x where x = "main = putStr x >> print x where x = " < 1175904165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, old and boring. we should aspire to being flipping mad < 1175904301 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = flip mad (putStr x) (print x) where mad = (<<); x = "main = flip mad (putStr x) (print x) where mad = (<<); x = " < 1175904412 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, even better: main = flip mad (print x) (putStr x) where mad = (>>); x = "main = flip mad (print x) (putStr x) where mad = (>>); x = " < 1175904758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = sequence_ $ [putStr, print] >>= return . flip ($) "main = sequence_ $ [putStr, print] >>= return . flip ($) " < 1175904799 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s='s=%r;print s%%s';print s%s < 1175904854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points out this is _not_ a _shortest_ quine contest. We did that last time. < 1175907068 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Language lobbying. < 1175907088 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175907449 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's do a BF busy beaver! < 1175907468 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See how much you can output in a 10-character program. < 1175907500 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My entry: .......... < 1175907511 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] < 1175907517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No input allowed. < 1175907524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the program must halt. < 1175907525 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know; j/k. < 1175907531 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, here's a better one: +++[....-] < 1175907562 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[[.+]+] < 1175907577 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1175907580 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1175907580 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one uses a wrapping implementation, it never ends. < 1175907616 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it end in a wrapping implementation? < 1175907619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one uses a non-wrapping implementation, it never ends either. < 1175907659 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It would crash if it doesn't wrap but only allows 8-bit cells. < 1175907665 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we say the tape is infinite in both directions, each cell can hold any non-negative integer, and decrementing 0 yields 0? < 1175907681 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crashing doesn't count! < 1175907682 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it'd work. < 1175907686 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:-| < 1175907707 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only crashes if cell size is limited but doesn't wrap. < 1175907717 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or you're not allowed to decrement 0. < 1175907727 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My implementation doesn't decrement at all. < 1175907742 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't want any -[.-] here. < 1175907754 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor +[.+], for that matter. :-) < 1175907757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have unbounded negative? < 1175907765 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: convenience? < 1175907784 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But +[.+] isn't an infinite loop, like my program. ;) < 1175907785 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, allowing unbounded negative is probably fine. < 1175907787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is making 0 decrementing weird. < 1175907808 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tape is infinite in both directions and each cell can hold any integer. < 1175907819 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless nonwrapping and unbounded cells) < 1175907822 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do better than +++[....-] (12)? < 1175907860 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: what about unbounded wrapping? < 1175907873 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: That's an oxymoron. < 1175907883 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapping only has a meaning with bounded cell size. < 1175907904 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Sure is. < 1175907914 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[......-] < 1175907928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1175907932 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Never mind. < 1175907937 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd only loop once. < 1175907972 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0, 6, 10, 12, 10, 6, 0! < 1175908005 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote for impossible. < 1175908016 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[.......] < 1175908027 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, one is objected to infinite loops. < 1175908049 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't output anything at all. < 1175908053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is. a BB problem by definition looks at halting programs only. < 1175908071 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you skip infinite loops, that is. < 1175908074 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1175908083 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case. . . < 1175908114 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: I can only find alternate ways of expressing an equivalent program in 10 chars. . . < 1175908132 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++[...-] (12) < 1175908137 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1175908152 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Unless one allows for 8-bit wrapping cells. < 1175908154 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++[-....] (12), +++[..-..] (12), etc. < 1175908167 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: cells can hold any integer. < 1175908180 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the tape is infinite in both directions. < 1175908181 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, the max possible is the entire ASCII table. < 1175908189 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Which is why I can't make anything better. < 1175908201 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have we pretty much agreed on 12? < 1175908205 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175908226 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be impossible to do better than 9 in nine characters, then: +++[...-] (9) < 1175908240 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1175908248 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, ......... (9) < 1175908287 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we try eleven characters, then? To start off: ++++[....-] (16) < 1175908322 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max. < 1175908341 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sense a pattern. < 1175908499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pattern breaks once you get enough room to use two cells. < 1175908521 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sequence is uncomputable. < 1175908570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is wordy enough that it may take a while before we reach the uncomputable stage < 1175908610 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's see here: +[>+[.-]<-] (11,1) < 1175908629 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it doesn't get any better than 16. < 1175908692 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: The sequence as a whole is uncomputable, but finite segments of it *are* computable. < 1175908720 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for twelve: there's +++++[....-] (12,20) and ++[>+[.-]<-] (12,2). Thirteen: +++++[.....-] (13,25) and ++[>++[.-]<-] (13,4). < 1175908730 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: surely "a finite segment". < 1175908820 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fourteen: ++++++[.....-] (14,30) and ++[>++[..-]<-] (14,8). Fifteen: ++++++[......-] (15,36) and +++[>++[..-]<-] (15,12)... eh. < 1175908864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two-cell version has 5 char overhead which needs to be overcome < 1175908883 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(14,30), (15,36), (16,42), (17,49), (18,56), (19,64)... < 1175908956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x/2)^2 < ((x-5)/3)^3 < 1175908965 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for the one-cell version. For the two-cell: (11,1), (12,2), (13,4), (14,8), (15,12), (16,18), (17,27), (18,36), (19,48)... < 1175908983 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, doing it that way is probably much easier. < 1175909024 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By (x/2), do you mean ((x-3)/2)?) < 1175909047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't include the overhead for the 1-cell version < 1175909091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is slightly approximate if the divisions are not exact < 1175909252 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing more like an 8-cell overhead. < 1175909268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add the 3 to the 5, yes < 1175909286 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x-8)/3)^3... < 1175909364 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to mbot, the switchover ideally happens at about 20.961944507581496 characters. < 1175909376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mbot? < 1175909383 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, mbot. < 1175909480 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[.-] < 1175909486 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for wrapping) < 1175909487 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try a bit more "manual" stuff: (20,72) and (20,64), (21,81) and (21,80), (21,90) and (21,100). < 1175909507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing a haskell program < 1175909508 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[>-[.-]<-] < 1175909528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[>-[>-[.-]<-]<-] < 1175909547 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: now do one that uses cells that can hold any integer! < 1175909573 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the result of decrementing 0? < 1175909644 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: -1 is an integer. < 1175909748 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175909759 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, should the alphabet length be 2? < 1175909770 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it's usually defined as in the turing machine BB < 1175909813 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want @ instead? < 1175909822 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idunno < 1175909839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell script says two cells work from 22, giving 100 > 99 < 1175909879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 just barely misses at 81 vs. 80 < 1175909900 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION studies the winner of S(3,2) < 1175909914 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouldn't it be non-zeros on the tape instead of printing? < 1175909960 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: the existence of a . is pretty convenient, eh? < 1175909964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, you already had that < 1175909994 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what do you mean? < 1175910385 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: BF is imperative, so you can have an output command. < 1175910398 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1175910410 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can add one to a Turing machine too, but it doesn't look quite as nice. < 1175910458 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about max shifts? < 1175910488 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also do that. < 1175910505 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can < 1175910624 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++[>++[>-<-]<-] < 1175910628 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1175910717 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the cell is 1, halt; otherwise, set it to 1 and move right. Then, if the cell is 0, set it to 1 and move left. Repeat until the cell is 1. Then, if the cell is 0, set it to 1 and move left. Repeat until the cell is 1, then move left and start over." < 1175910733 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All cells start out as zero. What happens? < 1175910766 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't halt? < 1175910782 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it halts. < 1175910807 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It halts *eventually*. < 1175910825 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat until the cell is 1. Then, if the cell is 0, set it to 1 and move left.?? < 1175910877 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Bad description. < 1175910887 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1175910909 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1175910929 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the cell is 1, halt; otherwise, set it to 1 and move right. Then, if the cell is 0, set it to 1 and move left. Repeat until the cell is 1, then set it to 0 and move right. Then, if the cell is 0, set it to 1 and move left. Repeat until the cell is 1, then move left and start over." < 1175914486 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's the UNIX command for replacing stuff in files with other stuff? < 1175914495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs < 1175914503 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...through the whole directory. < 1175914514 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and subdirectories. < 1175914523 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash script < 1175914535 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......what command? < 1175914551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any scriptable editor < 1175914561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPECIFIC ANSWER PLZ < 1175914574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does each stuff span more than one line? < 1175914580 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find + sed. < 1175914590 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1175914652 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: Find: command not found < 1175914663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then find/grep + sed/perl should work. < 1175914699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> I really don't know enough about shell commands to take that and turn it into a command. < 1175914732 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I guess I could I just write a program that does it. < 1175914734 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-gasp- < 1175914789 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Lowercase find. < 1175914800 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: english fails < 1175914885 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"find" !"Find" < 1175914926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :se < 1175914931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -i -e 's/from/to/' `grep -l -r from .` < 1175914938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something _like_ that < 1175914943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1175914958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add -p to the perl < 1175915057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and test carefully first. < 1175915075 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive find + sed < 1175915091 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yeah... I don't want to... fuck up my entire source... which I'm pretty sure won't happen... but < 1175915129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the argument list generated by the grep will be too long < 1175915146 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipe it through xargs < 1175915173 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... I'll just use Python. :) < 1175915273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken :) < 1175915294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEAR GOING OUT OF MY COMFORTABLE STATUS QUO SHUT UP MAN < 1175915388 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175915629 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...anything in this that makes it look like it's going to explode? http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4270 < 1175915676 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1175915678 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SEE < 1175915730 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4270 ... now with pathnames properly joined. < 1175915792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... does f.read() read the whole file? < 1175915832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1175915868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess since the replacement is longer you won't leave any junk at the end. < 1175915944 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175915950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should still test first :) < 1175915983 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....hmmm... now sure how to test... other than by simulating walk() and putting in sample strings. < 1175916025 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... whatever... I'm feeling lucky. < 1175916033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could split it into two subroutines, one to iterate and one to change a file < 1175916086 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks to see if anything exploded. < 1175916100 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175916102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR HARDDRIVE IS ALL GONE!!!!!111 < 1175916198 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.... I did a recursive count of all occurances of both words. < 1175916200 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1175916207 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUCH TO MY SURPRISE... MUDBALL IS NOT IN ANY OF THE FILES < 1175916217 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1175916220 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHILE SOPHIAMU APPEARS TO OCCUR 26 TIMES. < 1175916240 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... computer programming... making life easier for us all. < 1175916318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU STEENKING LIAR! < 1175916343 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...now I shall perform more sweeping changes to my MUD. < 1175916348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've renamed everything way too much < 1175916408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... so this change makes all the files shorter? How do I ensure lack of junk? < 1175916443 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... I could do f.truncate(0) beforehand. :) < 1175916629 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I apparently don't have enough permission to... truncate my own files. < 1175916655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe put it after seek? < 1175916694 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope... trunace() is independent of the current position. < 1175916718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is sometimes you must do seek between read and write < 1175916731 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! I know why. < 1175916742 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I put the mode in r < 1175916905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did it work the first time then? < 1175916944 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one was r+... then for the count check I set it to r... < 1175916958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1175924818 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=BarBuq@70.254.92.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1175926097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gaudy knight" < 1175930652 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEAUTIFUL http://sophiamu.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ < 1175930669 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1175930749 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's my incomplete MUD... < 1175932799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1175932800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1175932942 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1175933612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1175934078 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=BarBuq@ppp-70-254-92-96.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175934921 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1175936206 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-71-218.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175936702 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-5-180.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175937183 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175937982 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I've decided on ObjC. < 1175937984 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna help? < 1175940456 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1175940459 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objC? < 1175940546 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sophiamu.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ what's that? < 1175941069 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood huh? < 1175943822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175953707 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-040-140.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175964269 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175964535 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175965468 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-5-180.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175965582 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175965975 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1175966961 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Objective C. < 1175967258 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, an esolang based on fluid dynamics would be pretty cool. < 1175967264 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't ;-; < 1175967270 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm bad at that topic. < 1175967283 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An esolang based on electricity and magnetism would be pretty cool though. < 1175967330 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an esolang based on macrophysics? < 1175967339 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... alright. < 1175967344 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know. All of macrophysics. < 1175967348 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1175967354 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty easy to implement. < 1175967381 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can take inspiration from the other project in this domain. < 1175967382 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't accurately simulate an underwater light bulb exploding due to the fact that it contains flammable gases, it's not all of macrophysics. < 1175967385 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Life.) < 1175967434 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... you need to simulate chemical reactions, because burning is a chemical reaction, and fluid dynamics, and electric stuff... < 1175967819 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty easy to implement, you say? < 1175967905 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very. < 1175968022 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a u < 1175968087 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is learning python < 1175968114 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a rubyist < 1175968130 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yer boring. < 1175968203 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yer pickle. < 1175968374 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: The chemical reactions are microphysics. ;) < 1175968390 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1175968396 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calls it microphysics about when quantum mechanics become relevant < 1175968414 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the light bulb explode because the filament gets too hot, then. < 1175968421 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's easy. < 1175968430 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's remarkably easy. < 1175968479 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resistance of the filament allows one to know how much energy it puts out. . . This energy gets applied to the gas inside, increasing temperature and therefore pressure. . . Once the pressure gets high enough, it a'splodes. < 1175968490 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only requires two laws, I think. < 1175968520 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two laws to describe how the glass fragments and how the water flows in? < 1175968529 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1175968532 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the circuit, the gas inside the bulb, the heat capacity of the bulb, and the plastic limit of the bulb. < 1175968532 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the hard part. < 1175968545 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plastic limit? < 1175968547 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill < 1175968556 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills nooga < 1175968557 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1175968560 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's easy to see the laws which could apply. < 1175968572 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I was simplifying it a bit. . . < 1175968589 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Pikhq, wanna join the PDF viewer development crew? < 1175968600 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *point*, though, is that a moderately skilled programmer/physics major could handle it. < 1175968625 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: What's the point? xpdf/kpdf/gpdf works just as well. < 1175968632 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Only in *nix < 1175968637 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're all based on the same library. < 1175968642 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port it. < 1175968651 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That's annoying. < 1175968667 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The core library should run on OS X, and can be made to work on Cygwin. . . < 1175968673 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ports are flaws/limitations/differences in design ideology. < 1175968693 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All one would need to do is define a new UI, which the xpdf source base is designed to handle. < 1175968722 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Xpdf's renderer is sometimes not very ideal. < 1175968754 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if xpdf has a GNUstep UI already. . . In which case, getting it to run in Cocoa is a matter of recompilation. < 1175968756 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it's C++. < 1175968788 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. Maybe fork from the Ghostscript renderer? < 1175968808 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be using GS as inspiration and probably taking bits out of it, yeah. < 1175968812 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But PDF is a lot simpler than PS. < 1175968833 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember Wilson called the American people to Halt the Hun? Null the C++. < 1175968916 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but, IIRC, PDF is a subset of PS, allowing Ghostscript code to be very useful. < 1175969009 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1175969026 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a debate there whether I should implement the whole PS standard and then PDF after, or PDF then expand to PS. < 1175969178 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think doing the whole PS standard would make for a more robust chunk of code than PDF first. < 1175969206 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1175969209 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna join aboard? < 1175969224 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be only getting 2, maybe 3 hours of programming time until my AP testing finishes. < 1175969235 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is, to quote Marimite, my way of ``running away'' from exams :P < 1175969552 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise, I fear (except on weekends). . . < 1175969563 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got prom stuff to work on, so. . . < 1175969637 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I skipped out on Junior Prom for Physics. < 1175969643 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I love electricity more than Prom. Sue me. < 1175969693 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're a Senior though, then it's important. < 1175969756 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Junior. < 1175969765 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's already got a date to the prom. . . < 1175969871 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fool. < 1175969914 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPDF weeps. < 1175969921 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let it weep. < 1175969943 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably create a PS parser in the next 5 minutes. . . < 1175969946 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, RPN! :p < 1175969972 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each individual part of the project isn't as hard as managing it altogether. < 1175970003 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION showers before going to go get a tux < 1175970011 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And abstracting each part sufficiently so we can change the design in one part and not alter other parts sufficiently, and keeping it all as platform-independant as possible, or at least seperating out platform-independant components from platform-dependant ones. < 1175970020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*independent < 1175970021 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Yeah. . . Thus why well-defined interfaces between parts is a good idea. < 1175970034 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1175971730 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1175974706 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1175975072 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175975129 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175975794 0 :helios_!i=helios@peach.n1.helzilla.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175975928 0 :helios_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1175976553 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175977172 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175977265 0 :bsmnt_bot!n=bsmnt@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175977274 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: cool < 1175977339 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: You're early. < 1175977355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Early for what? < 1175977465 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind. < 1175977497 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about gui programming < 1175977518 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I. < 1175977520 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome aboard :) < 1175977541 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less cross platform gui programming < 1175977552 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK. < 1175977577 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning ObjC, I'm learning PS/PDF, I'm learning GTK. < 1175977581 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a learning project. < 1175977591 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you aren't daunted, being a regular of #esoteric :) < 1175977610 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK looks out of place on windows I think < 1175977650 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what do you want to do, write something yourself via SDL? < 1175977664 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, no sarcasm meant there. < 1175977702 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what SDL is < 1175977711 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL/GLUT? < 1175977715 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1175977731 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go and google SDL. It's a cross-platform graphics engine. < 1175977761 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple Directmedia Layer? < 1175977792 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1175977847 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. ObjC seems very unsupported... < 1175977851 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering switching... < 1175977946 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1175978057 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using something low level might be easier for drawing pdfs < 1175978149 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL then? < 1175978194 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think figure out the design first, then pick whatever fits best < 1175978211 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1175978219 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One final tally: ObjC then? < 1175978230 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We might use D actually. I dunno. < 1175978235 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose. < 1175978236 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo! < 1175978253 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC it is? < 1175978277 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I would prefer < 1175978351 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://libfoundation.opendarwin.org/ <-- We'll be using this. < 1175978546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird license < 1175978610 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's little alternative, or else we'll have to code the base Object class ourselves. < 1175978741 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not a good idea if we don't know objc < 1175978799 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly, heh. < 1175978993 0 :atrapado!i=opened@202.Red-81-47-3.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175979019 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you guys working on? < 1175979079 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about Cairo? < 1175979102 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was contemplating. How is it? < 1175979105 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: PDF Viewer? < 1175979109 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't worked in it < 1175979113 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may do the job. < 1175979119 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an esolang? < 1175979153 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise.. why? there are already so many hehe < 1175979194 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_(graphics) < 1175979241 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cairo doesn't have objc bindings < 1175979274 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1175979323 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1175979328 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175979574 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's C, no? < 1175979695 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cairo is, yes < 1175979813 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can wrap it ourselves. < 1175979918 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-81-130.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1175979980 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the SDL tutorials I can find are shit < 1175981082 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1175981663 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"allserv quit" < 1175981872 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use the tutorials. < 1175981875 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read the documentation. < 1175982112 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1175982268 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1175982948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, a Thue busy beaver would be pretty cool. < 1175983008 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much can you fit in an 80-by-24 box using only printable ASCII characters and newlines? < 1175983103 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, presumably 80x24x(number of printable characters)? < 1175983140 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, how long of a string can you produce doing that? < 1175983161 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are often multiple ways of running a Thue program. < 1175983286 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a Sortle busy beaver? < 1175984122 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a busy beaver? < 1175984199 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program to generate the most ones on the tape < 1175984439 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's package management is begining to tire me < 1175984481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read about a new system on Lambda the Ultimate recently. purely functional package management. < 1175984502 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaML owns your sleep. < 1175984512 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes it pure functional? < 1175984522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2176 < 1175986576 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns. . . < 1175988986 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1175989052 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1175989097 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-187-100.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1175989120 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175989173 0 :bsmnt_bot!n=bsmnt@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1175989191 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(display ((lambda (x) (list (quote display) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))) (quote (lambda (x) (list (quote display) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))))) < 1175989196 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my scheme quine < 1175989448 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My quine: < 1175989470 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant, no? < 1175989474 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1175989706 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see the early days of #esoteric were quite quiet < 1175989724 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the early days were just fine. < 1175989737 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle ages were quiet. < 1175989778 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all secular thought was suppressed. < 1175989797 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/early days/early days of logging/ < 1175989820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter: ((lambda (x) (display (list x (list (quote quote) x)))) (quote (lambda (x) (display (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))) < 1175991012 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone care to link to the logs? < 1175991023 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. In topic. < 1175992703 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1175993320 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1175993326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1175993328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my FOOS interpreter works < 1175993535 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/FOOS.tgz < 1175993539 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run main.py for a repl < 1175993564 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dun wrote something in Smalltalk zomg 8-D < 1175993671 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1175993906 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1175994178 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world" print < 1175994185 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hello world < 1175994408 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1175994470 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@'print-hello [" world" "hello" @swap + print] @object %inherit add-method done create print-hello < 1175994660 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently working on creating an incredibly modular distro. . . < 1175994712 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: http://www.nongnu.org/sps/ < 1175994764 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: (Or better:) http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/sps/ < 1175994823 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thoughts involve something like Slax's .mo files for packages, except that each file would be able to auto-install dependencies. . . < 1175994834 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The core OS would include: < 1175994835 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux < 1175994837 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox < 1175994844 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package manager (in .sh) < 1175994849 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else. < 1175994924 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Busybox? < 1175994938 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in /bin, in one executable < 1175994956 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the core system is about. . . Nothing. < 1175994989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Seriously, click my link above ... it's a packaging system I wrote that could aid you greatly. < 1175994999 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1175995009 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Describe it; the page doesn't detail much. < 1175995072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Heh. Each package is installed to /sps//. In /bin there is only a bunch of symlinks to a special tool which runs the appropriate program. To do so, it checks the user's environment for overrides and such. So, any user can have in their environment whatever selection of programs and libraries they please, and whatever version they please, simply by modifying one file. < 1175995120 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and how modular is Busybox? < 1175995123 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing a package onto the system is as simple as extracting it, installing a package into an environment is as simple as echo bash >> ~/.spsenv (or whatever I named that file) < 1175995140 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: It's a single package. < 1175995144 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: What aspect of busybox? < 1175995146 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, it's the core module. < 1175995172 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: well, Busybox is an executable and a bunch of symbolic links, right? < 1175995178 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yes. < 1175995181 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a global repository of packages? < 1175995200 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the symbolic links don't carry much information, so most of BusyBox is in that one executable. < 1175995204 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I *love* that idea. < 1175995211 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does one go about changing the functionality of that one executable? < 1175995218 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Recompile. < 1175995224 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: So do I, that's why I wrote it - but I let it languish. If you're interested, I'll revive it. I figure it would help with the design you're talking about. < 1175995228 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus why it's the core of the system. < 1175995246 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm *very* interested. < 1175995246 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it written in? < 1175995255 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1175995256 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds a *lot* like Klik. < 1175995259 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1175995261 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I wrote it in perl >_> ... I was unenlightened at the time <_< < 1175995263 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox, that is. < 1175995269 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: And it's not even the least like Klik ... < 1175995297 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, other than the fact that Klik keeps its stuff in a local sandwhich. < 1175995329 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR knows Perl? Ewww. < 1175995343 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *wish* it was written in a compilable language, making things easier to set up, though. < 1175995354 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As-is, the core system would have to include 3 packages: < 1175995355 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: If I revive it, I will almost certainly rewrite it in C. < 1175995358 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can rewrite it. < 1175995361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I wrote it in Perl :P < 1175995363 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox < 1175995367 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a bad, bad choice ^^ < 1175995368 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-core < 1175995374 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl-core < 1175995375 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any dependancy tracking? < 1175995377 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. 4. < 1175995383 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sps < 1175995394 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: SPS isn't that part of the packaging system. < 1175995401 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: OH! (rewind) < 1175995402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Yes. < 1175995410 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: But not in terms of installation, SPS doesn't do installs :) < 1175995412 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1175995421 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: But if you add a tool to your environment, it adds all of its dependencies as well. < 1175995430 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Ah... so similar to the Slackware package manager? < 1175995439 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Does it automagically download the dependencies as well? < 1175995459 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependancy tracking is annoying to implement. < 1175995461 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: It doesn't do anything regarding installation, only use. I intended for the installation/dependency grabbing/whatever portion to be a differnet tool. < 1175995465 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1175995477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tool I never wrote ;) < 1175995484 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Try to make it easy to have SPS automagically call that tool, then. < 1175995491 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I propose a small shift of SPS's focus. < 1175995496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Oh? < 1175995509 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it manage many versions of one application. < 1175995518 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, Firefox 1 and Firefox 2 for example. < 1175995520 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds ideal. < 1175995522 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's what it does. < 1175995534 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: But I thought it was a *total* package manager... < 1175995537 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds *almost* like installation would be as simple as drag-drop, but dependency grabbing would require an external tool. < 1175995545 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Egg-zactly. < 1175995554 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: SPS packages are installed to /sps// < 1175995558 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs dependency tracking? < 1175995564 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies are for nubs :P < 1175995564 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my dependency idea is simple. . . < 1175995566 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: So you can have any number of versions of the same package installed. < 1175995577 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: And choose which one to use by specifying it in your .spsenv file. < 1175995577 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Nifty. < 1175995599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll rewrite it in C this week. < 1175995607 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't this weekend, too dern much homework >_> < 1175995611 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make each package have an on-install script, which checks for appropriate versions of dependencies, and installs them. < 1175995640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like every other package manager... < 1175995656 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Not quite. < 1175995687 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless your package manager involves "copy package into /sps/ to install", that is. < 1175995719 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1175995725 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That bit is a very, very Hurdish idea. < 1175995741 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPS represents a part of the package manager that doesn't exist in conventional package management ... < 1175995741 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, that *is* the Hurd package manager) < 1175995753 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realistically, you could set dpkg, rpm, whatever on top of it. < 1175995775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does sps stand for? < 1175995778 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right *now*, I'm thinking of just having a *very* simple package manager. < 1175995785 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: The Segregated Packages System < 1175995801 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it segregates the packages :P < 1175995806 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably just build a script-based package manager for now. . . < 1175995871 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make the package system modular. < 1175995876 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves to do homezvork. < 1175995881 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fwoom* < 1175995893 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you're a hard-line Slacker (like me), you don't bother with that dependency tracking guffaw that these youngsters cook up. < 1175995918 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATM, I think my package manager will consist of a installer script which calls the script to install a specific package. . . < 1175995955 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: My *current* dependency manager consists of "each package just automagically downloads and installs what it needs". . . < 1175996001 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr. < 1175996015 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite what you want, but I'm just wanting a temporary solution ATM. < 1175996020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we reinventing portage? < 1175996025 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. . . < 1175996027 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, yeah. < 1175996034 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.... < 1175996048 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary portage. . . < 1175996070 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; I'm too much of a Gentoo man for my own good. < 1175996078 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You very rarely see novel ideas in package management nowadays. < 1175996096 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd argue that's because a lot of good ones have already been made. < 1175996173 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not disagreeing there. < 1175996187 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPDF may switch from ObjC. < 1175996192 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing that libFoundation is refusing to compile :D < 1175996304 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also thinking about making the core system run in RAM, and have UnionFS be used to merge in either an RW or RO root partition. . . < 1175996326 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnionFS? < 1175996350 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used in LiveCDs to allow one to combine an RW and RO filesystem into one. . . < 1175996351 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's because libFoundation doesn't compile < 1175996355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just headers < 1175996373 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: No, it has makefiles. < 1175996395 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Knoppix, it merges a ramdisk and the root FS on CD to allow one to write to the filesystem even though the core system is on a RO media. < 1175996407 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Friendly person at #objc tells me to use GnuStep. < 1175996439 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're implementing a LiveCD, Pikhq ? < 1175996440 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1175996463 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't get gnustep figured out though < 1175996464 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: No, just something which is easy to make into a LiveCD. < 1175996474 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By merit of the core system just being an initrd.img. < 1175996492 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Which merges itself with another filesystem. < 1175996545 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been feeling pricked of late to try a versioning FS. < 1175996550 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for my source directories. < 1175996584 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. . . < 1175996605 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool < 1175996675 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got gnu step, but I can't find the right headers < 1175996759 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to SVN it now. < 1175996868 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn, i'm almost out of disk space < 1175996909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tempted to make a bad your-mom joke. < 1175996915 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I didn't :P < 1175996987 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your MOM didn't! < 1175997046 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just lost in corniness :D < 1175997055 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. GNUStep is huge. < 1175997065 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, bsmntbombdood. < 1175997078 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not implementing PS unless you can give me a good argument to. < 1175997079 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out I had the wrong gnustep package < 1175997084 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to know why? < 1175997112 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do, I suggest you grab the GS source and take a look at the amount of files in src/ . < 1175997117 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1175997118 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1175997145 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked over the PDF Reference? < 1175997157 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1175997160 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1175997163 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Use the reference from '01 (the second newest), the newest adds BS like animation that nobody uses.) < 1175997199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdfs/PDFReference16.pdf <-- Fifth, which I suggest we implment first and http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdf_reference.pdf <-- Sixth. < 1175997217 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.6 Reference is 8 MB. < 1175997227 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 Reference is 31 MB. < 1175997233 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose wisely, my friend :) < 1175997266 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1175997292 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 == 6th ed., 1.6 == 5th ed. Don't ask me why. < 1175997293 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 1236 pages... < 1175997305 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but it's pretty light reading actually. < 1175997313 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skim over the syntax, the objects, and such. < 1175997344 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... And SVN is still pulling stuff from GNUStep. < 1175997352 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Just finished. < 1175997372 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know any objc? < 1175997392 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been spending the morning reading Apple's introduction to Object Oriented Programming. < 1175997406 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing < 1175997411 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say, it addresses one of my biggest problems with OOP. < 1175997421 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1175997436 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When to use a class over a struct and functions. < 1175997455 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing < 1175997457 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a language like Java, the choice is moot, because *everything* is a class, but when you have a choice it gets a bit tricky. < 1175997496 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC is not much actually. Just a thin veneer over C and is very C-like. < 1175997551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does objc fix that problem? < 1175997565 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesen't as much as the document gives you a general guideline. < 1175997617 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say that only use OOP when you either A) Need the design to be modular B) Have a reason to hide the implementation C) Want to encapsulate code with a set interface. < 1175997642 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should read the ObjC concept of the dynamic runtime. A very nifty idea. < 1175997652 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have a bunch of functions that all take the same struct, that's an object < 1175997672 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the syntax to use the struct and objects is not the same. < 1175997691 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading apple's "the objective-c programming language" < 1175997697 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main reason I wanna use OOP for this project is that OOP gives the advantage of syntactically thorough encapsulated state. < 1175997712 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're reading the same book :) < 1175997765 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to seperate certain components cleanly so that replacements can be coded if needed. < 1175997769 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love free ebooks < 1175997774 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1175997797 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graphics system is the main seperate component. We might also want to seperate parts of the rendering engine and such. < 1175997810 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now. Which portion do you think we should write first? < 1175997835 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about the pdf format, but i'm going to say parser < 1175998006 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's going to be the easiest. < 1175998020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very similar to Forth. < 1175998039 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's all pseudo-RPN, there's very little to tokenize. < 1175998110 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a look at internal page 48 in the 5th ed. PDF standard. < 1175998115 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skim from there down. < 1175998157 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZW? < 1175998216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go < 1175998235 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, PDF Viewer page. < 1175998236 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garrr. < 1175998251 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bout 2hrs < 1175998266 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take leave myself in a bit, and won't be back on 'till 9. < 1175998274 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be doing homework at that time too, so bleh. < 1175998278 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 being 3 hours from now. < 1175998288 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do too much homework < 1175998302 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to cram all of electricity in a month, you know. < 1175998329 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started without knowing an Amp from a Watt, and I've gotten about half the college semester done in 2.5 weeks. < 1175998343 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to finish up magnetism and start on AP practice tests. < 1175998395 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC is actually pretty esoteric in some ways. Probably due to SmallTalk. < 1175998404 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel needs some large OCaML project too :) < 1175998652 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has his i386 Debian chroot up to use as a modlinux host. . . < 1175999008 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, do you enjoy functional programming Pikhq ? < 1175999041 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: Meh. < 1175999051 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of an imperative thinker. < 1175999129 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just means you haven't found the Right Language (TM). < 1175999149 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaML is supposedly good for imperative thinkers too. I dunno, haven't tried it meself. < 1175999164 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets kernel 2.6.16.46 < 1175999284 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've grown fond of Plof. . . < 1175999299 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting for Plof to mature :) < 1175999313 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Plof compiled? < 1175999402 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interpreted ATM. < 1175999823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I killed my RAM with a 301327046 byte string. :) < 1175999978 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god why would you allocate that much? < 1175999991 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = "hahaha".replace("", "hu").replace("", "hu") < 1175999993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x < 1175999994 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'huhhuuhuhhuhhuuhuahuhhuuhuhhuhhuuhuahuhhuuhuhhuhhuuhuahuhhuuhu' < 1175999996 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu"); x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu");x = x.replace("", "hu"); < 1175999997 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x < 1175999999 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1176000000 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "", line 1, in < 1176000002 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x < 1176000003 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MemoryError < 1176000005 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> len(x) < 1176000006 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :301327046 < 1176000008 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why. < 1176000026 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay weird unchecked languages. < 1176000028 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....my computer is running as if it got kicked in the balls. < 1176000084 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there are thousands of empty strings between the characters of a string.... HOW THOUGHT-PROVOKING < 1176000106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> "" in "Everything" < 1176000107 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1176000150 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> "" in "" < 1176000151 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1176000156 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE EMPTY STRING IS INSIDE ITSELF. < 1176000201 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes? < 1176000260 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't everything inside itself? < 1176000282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, yeah < 1176000298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list a sublist of itself... < 1176000308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: x.replace("", x) < 1176000346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe... it's like a tree < 1176000360 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = "Hello, World!" < 1176000362 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = x.replace("", x) < 1176000363 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x < 1176000364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Hello, World!HHello, World!eHello, World!lHello, World!lHello, World!oHello, World!,Hello, World! Hello, World!WHello, World!oHello, World!rHello, World!lHello, World!dHello, World!!Hello, World!' < 1176000481 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, just need to build Busybox to have my core system up. . . < 1176000509 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will take a lot more work to get a build environment, at which point I'll try to make everything be self-hosted. . . < 1176000532 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the point of the project? < 1176000631 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To create a distro that I like. < 1176000650 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it's basically called "I'm bored". < 1176000650 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff, distro. Why not create a whole operating system? < 1176000651 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1176000660 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Lazy. < 1176000666 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1176000671 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the core binaries. < 1176000675 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, where are you going to host this distro? < 1176000687 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use my nonlogic account. < 1176000701 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlogic? < 1176000706 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1176000709 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlogic.org < 1176000718 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176000753 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there a nonlogic IRC channel somewhere once? < 1176000790 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##nonlogic < 1176000799 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Freenode. < 1176000907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has plans for an operating system. < 1176000921 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...will probably be years before I ever start though... I've got ideas brewing. < 1176000927 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#awos < 1176000961 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you too? < 1176000981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's going anywhere < 1176000982 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who owns nonlogic? < 1176000995 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's AWOS, now? < 1176001008 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AW ... it's an OS. < 1176001009 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: The *paying* members of nonlogic own it. < 1176001019 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Who are they? < 1176001023 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: an os < 1176001030 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I can't remember the full list. . . < 1176001031 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another one? < 1176001045 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: its creator wants to turn it into "the universal operating system" < 1176001048 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I DARE SAY WE SHOULD COMBINE OUR EFFORTS < 1176001057 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, they sound crazy. < 1176001057 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few people on nonlogic have paid, so are allowed to vote on all issues for the nonprofit. < 1176001058 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I was just about to say that. < 1176001071 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *think* that's the general gist of the nonprofit charter) < 1176001073 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nonlogic? < 1176001086 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free shell server/web host. < 1176001087 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah < 1176001088 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ...hail Discordia much? < 1176001094 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be called YAOS and all the source code is going to be public domain and it's going to implement the principle of least authority. Right? < 1176001099 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...wait? < 1176001101 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1176001102 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you pay for Nonlogic also, Pikhq ? < 1176001104 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ...what? < 1176001113 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: universal operating system, eh? < 1176001132 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I've not. < 1176001139 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs windows and linux binaries natively < 1176001148 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/runs/planned to run/ < 1176001152 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The payment is just to be a voting member. . . Joining costs nothing. < 1176001167 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Linux binaries, sure, but isn't Windows Wine's job? < 1176001188 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, Discordianism. I'd like to make a Discordian OS... either that or an anti-Discordian OS. Either erisean or anerisean... or indifferent to both persuasions. or at least incorporating something similar - or another such combination of any of those factors. < 1176001190 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEAUTIFUL. < 1176001201 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: ask him < 1176001209 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: can you define "discordian" and "erisean" for me? < 1176001219 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: who's "him"? < 1176001228 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're ready to stard devving bsmntbombdood? < 1176001232 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: AWOSDev < 1176001236 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have lost over half the keys for this keyboard. < 1176001252 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where could they have gone, gah. < 1176001254 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nope... but you can define it yourself if you like. But don't. < 1176001265 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't I? < 1176001301 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we're getting to New Age bullshit - "DISCORDIANISM IS WHATEVER YOU DEFINE IT TO BE" ...and we all know what New Age does to things. < 1176001313 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it PROPELS IT INTO THE AGE OF AQUARIUS... which is a no-no. < 1176001324 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're getting weird. < 1176001337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will propel things into the age of Aquarius for food. < 1176001398 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, http://principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php < 1176001425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that... or just read some of it if you're time is short. < 1176001428 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....haha, midget time. < 1176001467 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not time is short! < 1176001479 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I have them. < 1176001496 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that some of the keys markings dissolved to the point where the masquerade other keys. < 1176001513 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't figure out why I have three 7's. < 1176001521 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I need only two. < 1176001794 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: This is going to be a huge project < 1176001829 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: You didn't realize that already? :P < 1176001866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I am. < 1176001872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, ah. < 1176001886 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a project that I can tell college recruiters that ``I didn't take AP Comp-Sci but I'm still a more awesome programmer than j00.'' and I also think the world needs beter PDF readers that can be ported across platform with no/minimal hastle. < 1176001908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has this feeling some people here are out of grammar. < 1176001912 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've been wanting to do a major project a while because, IMO, little programming projects get boring after a while. < 1176001938 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP comp-sci is a joke at my school < 1176001944 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it is. < 1176001956 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, GO ON < 1176001956 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would've taken it this year as an aside, but I already have 5 AP tests to take. < 1176001970 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those things that shouldn't be called CS < 1176001985 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. I hear it's a pretty accurate reading of what Freshman CS is like in college. < 1176001994 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA Let's sleep through Freshman year! < 1176002013 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1176002017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how about you find a place to host everything, then I start writing the kernel and all, or something? < 1176002020 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing I'm going to apply for EE, which is a lot more interestin :P < 1176002024 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interesting < 1176002030 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to go to MIT < 1176002038 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on this operating system, though I'm doing it very slowly. < 1176002089 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, .....googlecode would work... except they have no public domain option... largely because you can't just release stuff to public domain. Apparently ideas aren't free by default. >.< < 1176002129 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether or not it's possible to release stuff into the public domain is much debated. < 1176002144 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say use http://allritesreversed.com/ < 1176002145 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That's tough :P < 1176002159 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I can get in to MIT just like that. < 1176002166 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do want to eventually do graduate studies there though. < 1176002193 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get bad grades and can't pay for it, so I probably won't be able to get it < 1176002210 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1176002339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ....I really should like... learn how to do assembly or C well... < 1176002371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with a microkernel architecture... and have most of the stuff in "user space" or whatever... < 1176002397 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia pretty much says that it's possible to release things into the public doamin. < 1176002402 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you start C you just can't stop. < 1176002413 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody but GregorR says that this means an automatic disclaimer. < 1176002424 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I haven't seen this backed up anywhere. < 1176002508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I find it highly unlikely that I'll ever get hooked to C. < 1176002519 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is fun < 1176002571 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I imagine it would be kind of fun... but hard to work with. < 1176002580 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do everything in? < 1176002667 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm most familiar with Python... meaning that I've rarely used anything else despite doing entirely too much reading on other languages and procrastinating doing a large project in one. < 1176002680 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He works in Python, if I'm not mistaken. < 1176002693 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER < 1176002700 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, this keyboard is so .... feedback-less. < 1176002715 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How people live without feedback on their keyboards I will not know. < 1176002727 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, it is the future! < 1176002731 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...after a quick read over some of the standard library of C... I could probably code in it decently. < 1176002746 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each page in the spec is going to take like 500 lines to implement < 1176002773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes... 618,000 lines < 1176002798 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how Slackware packages are made. . . < 1176002807 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, did you have the name for your OS yet? I wanted to go with something like Sophia (I use variations of it for almost all my projects) < 1176002813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware, hugs and kisses. < 1176002821 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq, er... hugs and kisses < 1176002835 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the plan for a while has been to call it YAOS. < 1176002840 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Just 500 lines? < 1176002850 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another operating system whose name ends in "OS". < 1176002857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SophYAOS? < 1176002862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176002864 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ouch. < 1176002869 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1176002873 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SOUNDS NICE < 1176002886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAYAA < 1176002898 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about YAOSNS, the "NS" standing for "named Sophia"? < 1176002900 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parser won't be too difficult, mabe 200 lines. Some stuff wil probably be in the 700 line mark though. < 1176002909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, if the libpoppler people could do it, then so can we! < 1176002937 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... Right? < 1176002946 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to turn the file into an object that can be rendered will take a while < 1176002968 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, it has a nice sound coming out... although there's so many yet-anothers out there that I'd be tempted to call it YAYAOSNS < 1176002976 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I ask once more, where shall we begin? :) < 1176002982 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another YAOS named sophia? < 1176002992 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1176002995 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be very redundant. < 1176002998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but... that sounds lame < 1176003003 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sophia/Sophia/ < 1176003009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD < 1176003013 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would name it FFTH. < 1176003017 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS. < 1176003020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL NOT TOLERATE SCRAMBLING OF TITLE CASE < 1176003034 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why not an OS name that... doesn't end in OS? < 1176003040 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Sophia? < 1176003046 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "Sophia" a good name? < 1176003047 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five Factorial Times Thirty. < 1176003057 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr... < 1176003063 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five Factorial Times Hundred. < 1176003081 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose that we have a PDFDoc object, that is the result of parsing, decompressing, decrypting... the file < 1176003086 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: 12000? < 1176003094 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naostewos ...not another OS ending with OS.... but that name sucks < 1176003110 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yep. < 1176003112 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: are we trying seriously to come up with a name here? < 1176003121 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...half the time. < 1176003136 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Would would it internally represent? < 1176003139 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My proposals are "YAOS" and "Sophia". < 1176003148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax < 1176003154 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to intermingle seriousness and joking... as he often finds that most serious things are huge joke. < 1176003181 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we can't agree on a name, it'll be YAOS by default. >:-) < 1176003190 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well... if you want a "weird" name... I can do that easily. < 1176003193 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like how Linus didn't want to call Linux "Linux". < 1176003195 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abraxas is a fantastic album < 1176003204 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh, I just want a name. < 1176003204 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: what? < 1176003212 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YAOS" was somehting I came up with and thought funny. < 1176003215 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SevenInchBread < 1176003221 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, .......... < 1176003233 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have we agreed on Sophia? < 1176003241 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's old enough to be kind of pretentious at this point. < 1176003250 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... I think it's better than YAOS. < 1176003271 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT DOES HAVE A NICE RING TO IT. < 1176003292 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything we can use it as a placeholder. < 1176003311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax is related to Sophia, and ends in X. < 1176003342 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: What will it internally represent? < 1176003354 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: indeed we can. < 1176003359 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, what does PDFDoc have in it? < 1176003371 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can go with the hybrid "YAOSophia" if we get desperate. < 1176003403 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I like the sound of it. < 1176003421 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Another Operating Sophia? < 1176003430 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: the result of reading a file, parsing it, turning the data structures into their unencoded and easily usable data structures < 1176003442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism) < 1176003460 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: who said that "YAO" stood for "Yet Another Operating"? < 1176003468 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it does. Therefore, :-) < 1176003477 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... :P < 1176003489 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Well, what do you suggest we code first? < 1176003494 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE ABRASAX < 1176003497 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what's this about Abrasax? < 1176003501 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 3 minutes, I start my daily Japanese homework. < 1176003502 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that another suggested name? < 1176003517 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and Sophia. So we shall call it by both names... and many more that we like. < 1176003519 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about YMMV as the name? < 1176003529 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE NAMES ARE ABUNDANT... DESPITE THE POPULAR BELIEF THAT ALL THE GOOD ONES ARE TAKEN. < 1176003531 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turning a subset of pdf files into PDFDoc < 1176003540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet my mother's Volkswagen? < 1176003562 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: so "Abrasax" is another suggested name? < 1176003593 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.. I'm using it for the sourceforge name for now. < 1176003661 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Uh... think small :P < 1176003665 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're creating a Sourceforge thingy for it? < 1176003684 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parser, stacks, internal object representation... < 1176003688 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: the first step to that would be parsing < 1176003689 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1176003693 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws dextrose tablets at GregorR < 1176003694 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Your Mileage May Vary. < 1176003736 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because who said OS's are equally lovable? :P < 1176003747 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I've never liked the categorization of people into classes like "developer" and "end user". < 1176003754 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :converting pdf strings to strings, converting dictionaries to hash tables... < 1176003804 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of modular system for adding compression, encryption < 1176003815 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: It's OS Communism! < 1176003822 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COSmunism! < 1176003832 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...we sort of keep te "end user" dump by classifying them as an "end user" and doing everything possible to prevent them from exposure to computer-related stuff. < 1176003848 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I say we defer compression and encryption for later. < 1176003850 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dump/dumb < 1176003853 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: yes < 1176003878 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying we need to allow for a way to add the "filters" cleanly later < 1176003887 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh, I see. < 1176003901 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176003909 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we can just as internal objects around to filters. < 1176003947 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do you suggest we tokenize this, in 2 minutes? < 1176003963 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I leave. < 1176003985 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as/pass/ < 1176003997 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with the cross reference table, build all the indirect objects < 1176004010 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, yeah... no huge monolithic kernel for this one... too messy. < 1176004031 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to ESOS? < 1176004032 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use indexes into an array for those when we get to them in the doc < 1176004050 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Huh? < 1176004066 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Talk here. I start Japanese now. < 1176004070 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: find me a platform for it and we can start work building an operating system for it. < 1176004071 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you some time later :P < 1176004085 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: x86 ? < 1176004093 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: x86 is not esoteric. < 1176004104 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: ..... :P < 1176004112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: subleq OISC < 1176004118 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I wouldn't worry about being esoteric in the hardware. < 1176004128 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what's subleq? < 1176004140 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "platform" need not refer to the hardware. < 1176004140 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtract and branch if negative < 1176004150 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a vm a while ago, fun to play with < 1176004163 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: is that URISC? < 1176004173 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can easily be esoteric (and Discordian... which works SURPRISINGLY well with esoteric) in the emergent behavior of our stale and bland platform < 1176004183 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: PM me your ideas on tokenizing, and maybe we can get a basic tokenizer written up today. < 1176004191 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SYSTEM... THE HIVEMIND... IT IS THE CENTER OF EVERYTHING AND IT IS DISPERESED WIDELY. < 1176004210 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run away! It's COSmunism! < 1176004212 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax... < 1176004219 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I've only read up to the objects used in the pdf file < 1176004229 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then read more :) < 1176004240 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tokenizing is pretty simple < 1176004243 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I certainly don't see anything called Abrasax on SourceForge right now. < 1176004256 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive for arrays and dictionarys < 1176004264 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it okay if I call it SourceForce every once in a while, or SourgeForce or SourgeForge? < 1176004299 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sourceforge asks a bunch of questions... all of them optional though < 1176004307 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like programming languages, what we're doing etc. < 1176004350 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are optional? < 1176004373 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does SourceForge.net offer a fancy public domain thing? < 1176004383 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it would be nice to have a virtual machine language that we could compile everything to... so everything can work together despite being different programming languages. < 1176004386 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176004423 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yeah. . . < 1176004429 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the Java Virtual Machine. < 1176004451 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I don't like the sound of it. < 1176004465 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that's because I have a silly bias toward Java. < 1176004473 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the virtual architecture which Java is usually compiled to. < 1176004489 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Parrot... on the shallow basis that it has a cooler name. < 1176004495 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other languages *can* be compiled to it, but aren't commonly. . . < 1176004504 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could even write in JVM ASM if you wished. < 1176004530 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what's URISC < 1176004541 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC is One Instruction Set Computer < 1176004545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1176004547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1176004556 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either way... the main way I think we could make it easier for programming languages to communicate togethr is via some high-level structures in the OS. Like instead of just passing around bytes we pass around lniked lists and hash tables. I've got lots of ideas for inter-process communication here. < 1176004556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m the n/m < 1176004580 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: doesn't Esolang have something about URISC? < 1176004647 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has become a fan of variants of record-based IPC < 1176004653 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a builtin versioning system. < 1176004672 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that's all filesystem/process-level stuff... not the bare bones. < 1176004684 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: no < 1176004693 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: doesn't Wikipedia have something about URISC? < 1176004703 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably one of the first things we'd want is a way to spit stuff out to a terminal... for breadcrumbing/testing OS stuff. < 1176004712 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it redirects to OISC < 1176004719 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so URISC = OISC < 1176004852 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1176004866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the OISC page mention URISC? < 1176004901 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: a way to spit stuff out to a terminal... is this YAOS/Sophia/Abrasax we're talking about? < 1176004909 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1176004920 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... a way to shoot stuff out... so we can test stuff. < 1176004939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cannon! < 1176004955 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we'll want to plan some stuff out < 1176004966 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens Notepad < 1176004990 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about Multiboot and modules? < 1176005032 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiboot is a standardised interface for a bootloader to access an OS kernel. < 1176005056 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's main user is the Hurd. . . < 1176005093 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Multiboot for an OS project is an easy way to make the kernel bootable via GRUB. < 1176005105 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel, upon starting, loads all its modules as drivers. < 1176005113 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other way being to use the Linux bootloader interface) < 1176005133 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe one of its modules would act as a config file. < 1176005147 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176005153 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that config file would tell what to do with the rest of the modules. < 1176005249 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, it's time for bed. Does everyone have some idea of my email address? < 1176005287 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, do we want everything Public Domain? If so, then I don't think we can use a lot of GNU stuff... which is fine with me - I like making new stuff. < 1176005367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: we'll make the core stuff public domain and find a way to add the GNU stuff, then we'll gradually eliminate the GNU stuff in favor of public domain stuff. < 1176005378 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here's the description I gave the Sourceforge people... < 1176005379 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abrasax is basically just an open source OS kernel being developed by a hoard of time bandits. Some goals include general weirdness, cool ideas, high-level inter-process communication, a versioned filesystem, full Unicode support, complete Public-Domain-ness, and general awesomeness. We're still mostly planning in planning. < 1176005412 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "horde". < 1176005421 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1176005424 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling is for geeks < 1176005428 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I see you have lots of your own ideas. < 1176005472 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... I've been thinking about this a lot. ...any of them that sound like something you wouldn't like? < 1176005549 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :General weirdness may be iffy, cool ideas are probably fine but somewhat iffy, high-level inter-process communication may be iffy, a versioned filesystem is a little iffy, full Unicode support may be a litle iffy, and complete Public-Domain-ness would be generally awesome. < 1176005570 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, general weirdness is iffy. < 1176005602 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they all sound great........ which is obvious - since I wrote them. What all did you have in mind? < 1176005678 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Principle of least authority, Linux application compatibility... < 1176005696 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of a versioned file system... you can revert changes easily. and high-level structures sounds cool to me so you can do things like output hash tables. < 1176005699 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, compatibility < 1176005719 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why output hash tables when you can serialize them and send them as plain old bytes? < 1176005720 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, sounds great to me. compatibility hasn't been much of a concern for me... but nothing that I'm against < 1176005728 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I actually know that "serialize" means what I think it does. < 1176005730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: IPC is usually acheived by shared memory. you can put hash tables in memory < 1176005735 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ...because that takes more work? < 1176005736 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versioned file system... that one's an idea. < 1176005747 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: very true.\ < 1176005755 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but versioned file system would be cool < 1176005758 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, well then fuck usually. :P < 1176005768 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's implement EVERYTHING! < 1176005772 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED < 1176005785 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And find a way to do all this in a microkernel. < 1176005786 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all for it actually... I'm only lazy when it comes to stuff I don't want to do. < 1176005803 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme think... kernel loads drivers according to a config file... < 1176005815 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. Processes need to be able to register services. < 1176005822 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be neat to have finer-grained execute controls < 1176005830 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard drive access might be a service, for example. < 1176005834 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: to have what? < 1176005863 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux uses a single bit to control execution (executable or not executable) < 1176005867 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, with a microkernel... you basically just have memory and process stuff as "the kernel"... while everything else (like file system manipulation) as separate processes < 1176005879 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invoking certain services with certain arguments might be a privilege. < 1176005892 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: would handling privileges also be a separate process? < 1176005892 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finer grained would be "allow this proccess to execute but don't let it write to any disk" < 1176005914 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread, hmmm... I kind of consider priveledges a form of "authority". < 1176005917 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... ihope < 1176005921 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may well mean invoking a process everytime anything makes a system call. < 1176005922 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... yes. < 1176005937 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: what's this about privileges and authority? < 1176005940 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nope. You just have them as processes that are always around. < 1176005942 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, what did I say to the contrary? < 1176005949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit for network access... < 1176005972 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: well, yes, but you'd use the process every time something makes a system call. < 1176005985 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, oh... accidentally implied that we were using privledges... which I kind of consider a form of control... and/or security depending on how anarchist I'm feeling. < 1176006021 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Gmail's ihope127, by the way, in case anybody wants to email me for some reason... like operating system development. < 1176006038 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: the operating system is definitely going to have privileges. < 1176006059 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also, to prevent forkbombs and such, every process will pretty much be responsible for its "children". < 1176006075 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a process invokes another process, chances are they're going to share time slices. < 1176006086 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1176006111 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I see the shell working something like a Smalltalk-ian programming language. < 1176006118 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...kind of io-ish. < 1176006147 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definetely with more features than UNIX-style pass-strings-around shell scripting. < 1176006216 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I've just never seen much need for them... other than to keep other people out of your stuff... and like - protecting access from mean hacker-types. < 1176006238 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that's because no one else uses this computer... and I've never have a security breach. < 1176006288 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: privileges are very necessary. < 1176006302 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every process must have a set of privileges. < 1176006317 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... probably... I've just never found use for them myself. < 1176006336 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my email is adamadamadamamiadam@gmail (it's long... but probably easy to remember) < 1176006416 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, what kind of priveledges? I usually think of priveledge systems as ways to keep me out of messing with shit.. < 1176006432 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adam adam adam ami adam? < 1176006447 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: every system call is a privilege. < 1176006454 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And every process has privileges. < 1176006469 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's to make it so that running malicious software doesn't end up doing anything bad. < 1176006476 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by malicious, I might mean buggy/ < 1176006510 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176006541 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... you could just make everything fairly unbreakable to start with... < 1176006561 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as everything is open-ended unless explicitly blocked. < 1176006576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm cool with priveledges. < 1176006615 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "everything is open-ended unless explicitly blocked" meaning "if you run it, it can do anything unless you say otherwise"? < 1176006630 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much. < 1176006632 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you make something immune to formatting the hard drive, say? < 1176006650 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- I don't know really. < 1176006668 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like the principle of least authority. < 1176006682 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's that again? < 1176006714 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, programs aren't allowed to do anything that's potentially harmful. < 1176006728 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... originally I thought it meant something like "principle of no authority"./ < 1176006738 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you run it, you're granting it some CPU time, memory, and maybe hard disk space and a slot in your window manager. < 1176006751 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...OH NOES... A SCHISM IN THE OSDEVERS PRINCIPLES. < 1176006761 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1176006791 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much in comparison to say... Windows or Linux? < 1176006813 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes to be able to do whatever he wants. < 1176006823 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: then sudo is for you. < 1176006840 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do Windows and Linux CPU time distribution things work? < 1176006845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i understand it, one of the ideas behind the principle is that even if someone manages to break into your program, they cannot get control of anything the program doesn't normally use < 1176006855 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as something isn't completely blocked from access... then having some security features is nice. < 1176006877 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: it's not like you'd want to run a program and then not grant it any CPU time. < 1176006888 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor grant it CPU time but not the ability to make any system calls at all. < 1176006910 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want the program to do nothing but sit there and compute. < 1176006944 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the securest computer in the world is also the most useless computer in the world. < 1176007012 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet Babbages computer was more secure than any computer today!\ < 1176007040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being unbuilt _is_ pretty secure, you have to admit. < 1176007043 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay then... I see no problem with having configurable security stuff then... I usually don't reformat my hard drive on a regular basis... and as long as I still have free access to everything then it doesn't matter to me. < 1176007046 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: yes, well, we don't want the most secure computer in the world. < 1176007059 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. :) < 1176007070 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there will in fact be a way for you to do whatever you want, as long as it's not configured to keep everyone out. < 1176007082 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor configured to keep you out. < 1176007088 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely. < 1176007100 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANARCHYOS!!! < 1176007118 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1176007164 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, basically I like microkernals because they're not huge and messy... < 1176007176 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can manage a microkernel. < 1176007192 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So let's see here... kernel loads processes. We need the kernel to handle processes. < 1176007200 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- < 1176007214 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has to handle time slices, loading of processes, calling of processes, and system calls. < 1176007224 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And handling system calls means handling privileges. < 1176007226 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it need to handle inter-process commmunication. IPC is really something I'd like to focus on. < 1176007246 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPC could be provided using a service. < 1176007254 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll also want the kernel to handle services. < 1176007268 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they the same thing? < 1176007273 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think that's just about everything our kernel needs. < 1176007276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't what the same thing? < 1176007299 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always interpreted service/daemon to mean "stuff that spends most of its time sitting around making itself available" < 1176007305 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a process. < 1176007334 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service = something which a process makes available and can be invoked by other processes. < 1176007355 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just make all processes like that? < 1176007366 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... give the processes handy names. < 1176007367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could invoke the processes themselves, yes. < 1176007392 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if you want a process to provide multiple services? < 1176007416 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple names. < 1176007417 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A service is essentially some type of interface for something. < 1176007446 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax - to put it into shell parlance - might be something like "processname message" < 1176007459 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it could be. < 1176007474 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... if there was an "fs" process... that did the filesystem. < 1176007475 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means services = IPC? < 1176007507 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do "fs cd foo/bar" or "fs list (foo/bar, foo/bar2, foo/bar3)" < 1176007520 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, we have to give it a GUID. Call it {f4f5ff04-45eb-40d1-b206-63913b5468d6}. < 1176007532 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1176007534 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1176007540 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds uh... brilliant? < 1176007540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we don't want collisions, do we? < 1176007549 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess calling it "fs" isn't a bad idea. < 1176007566 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see why not... collisions can be handled by some sort of priveledge. < 1176007586 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work? < 1176007615 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if some malicious HackerHarrison tries to split off a process named "fs"... some nifty NameLessPriveledge of the existing fs can keep that from happening. < 1176007636 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just keep process naming privileged. < 1176007642 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a "prevent name override" priv. < 1176007665 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess you'd have the kernel issue random, boring names to whoever needs one. < 1176007669 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could go the other way around... other processes can have a "override names" priv < 1176007683 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you have the option to stuff like... create a new filesystem process. < 1176007695 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what if someone sets up an fs privilege and someone else uses it before the real fs can kill it? < 1176007721 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I understand what you mean. < 1176007782 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we want this operating system to be airtight. < 1176007790 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"secure" is pretty meaningless < 1176007838 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to processes by number is pretty crappy of UNIX... I must say. < 1176007855 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: is it? < 1176007865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone can set up an fs privilege then they shouldn't pass it around to someone non-trusted. < 1176007877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be quantified, "secure from what?" < 1176007881 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but UNIX doesn't focus much on processes... it puts more focus on files. < 1176007913 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: indeed, isn't "everything's a file" some sort of UNIX philosophy? < 1176007920 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...SOME SORT. < 1176007963 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SAY WE ADOPT A "everything reminds SevenInchBread of Smalltalk-like objects"... WHICH WE SEEM TO BE DOING QUITE WELL. < 1176007985 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, this isn't all too different from letting processes register services that other processes can use... < 1176007991 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...actually more like IO. < 1176008008 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, you can access the IP stack by writing to a file in /proc < 1176008013 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too different at all... processes are pretty much services... from my experience. < 1176008028 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you can access the what? < 1176008034 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: the network < 1176008039 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176008043 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything as a file makes a lot of sense < 1176008053 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do stuff... when given some input. UNIX and Windows just do it by spitting out a process each call... but you could easily have the processes sitting around performing actions as they receive them. < 1176008082 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: how about we go with an "everything is a service" philosophy? < 1176008092 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "everything is a file", if you want to go that route. < 1176008094 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1176008098 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall not permit it. < 1176008102 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTUALLY < 1176008109 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything makes sense as a file < 1176008120 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall go with the "everything is something" phiolosophy. < 1176008120 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe graphics < 1176008141 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the capital letters indicate sarcasm? < 1176008150 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling Perl-esque... and in backlash of all this "everything is " nonsense. < 1176008160 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nope. < 1176008183 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph33r the COSmunists!!!! < 1176008187 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to Japanese studies. < 1176008199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Don't forget to brainstorm more on ppdf.... :( < 1176008206 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PERSON, AND THAT IS A ROCK... BUT I'M ALSO CARBON... EVERYTHING IS ANYTHING YOU FUCKING WANT IT TO BE. THAT'S HOW IDENTITY WORKS. < 1176008206 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "everything is something"? So maybe filesystem access is a service while networking is a system call, and miscellaneous inter-process communication is a file? < 1176008227 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I got nothing < 1176008239 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I see system calls working as messages to services... which all have convient names attached to them. < 1176008242 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ... :( < 1176008249 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of Smalltalk-ish... < 1176008263 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC! < 1176008268 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176008302 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: eh. < 1176008324 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we discuss this via email? It's midnight and there seems to be school tomorrow. < 1176008342 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :school tommorow? < 1176008353 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Sunday today? < 1176008355 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tommorow's sunday < 1176008356 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Do you want to change the project ...? :( < 1176008376 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fs del (one, two, buckle, my shoe)" ...which is a system call in typical parlance... but basically it would just be input to the fs process... with the comma-separate list thing being an actual data-structure being sent here. :) < 1176008380 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, sure. < 1176008394 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, it's on the borderline between Sunday and Monday right now? < 1176008416 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: That's not what I meant < 1176008421 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Oh. < 1176008435 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: you must live in crazy other-side-of-the-world land < 1176008467 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does crazy other-side-of-the-world land include Michigan? < 1176008478 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176008491 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be deranged, if you live in michigan < 1176008494 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmmm... actually fs might just receive "del" and then output something to handle like... the (one, two, buckle, my, shoe) < 1176008494 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling my clock is wrong. < 1176008506 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's midnight here... eastern time. < 1176008517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: it's eastern time over there? < 1176008523 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> Georgia? < 1176008526 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Sunday/Monday or Saturday/Sunday? < 1176008540 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Saturday/Sunday < 1176008544 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1176008545 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...thank god. < 1176008546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 0001 sunday morning in michigan < 1176008546 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MENTALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE NOT ABLE TO COMPREHEND TIMEZONE!!! < 1176008553 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'd be going back to school tomorrow. < 1176008581 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate school SO MUCH < 1176008587 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I say we get rid of timezone... they were only good back when we had trains and because people liked there clocks to look the same in different parts of the world. < 1176008603 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176008620 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and a freind are going to drop out and start a commune < 1176008622 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...now they just confuse the hell out of people. < 1176008653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean we should go back to local time? < 1176008664 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, I've had plans at separating from the US for some time. TO CREATE A DISCORDIAN AND HUMOR-BASED NATION... THAT WILL ENFORCE ITS BULLSHIT IDEOLOGY ON THE WORLD. < 1176008676 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... just have like... one time. < 1176008679 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176008688 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid ChatZilla. < 1176008698 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, apparently my computer thinks it's December. < 1176008699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be different from the US? < 1176008703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1176008703 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that today < 1176008707 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s Saturday. < 1176008715 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1176008721 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope sounds like me on summer vacation. < 1176008724 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if its daylight at 3 AM in the UK then world will not implode < 1176008730 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``Darn it, it's Tuesday? I thought it was Sunday :('' < 1176008749 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it will SevenInchBread. < 1176008756 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adjusts his clock to April and one minute, 30 seconds forward < 1176008775 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no no it's alright... talking about how much the US sucks is a great way to get brownie points with any United Statesian. < 1176008797 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well... unless they're like... a freakish unpatriotic USA-lover person. < 1176008797 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION casts his vote for "US American" < 1176008814 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. You can't be a patriot and like the current administration. < 1176008821 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I like United Statesian and USAn < 1176008821 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there is in fact not any school today/tomorrow. < 1176008830 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations ihope. < 1176008852 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But regardless, I'll be going to bed now, so if anybody wants to say anything, it'll have to be via email. < 1176008858 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks oppression of freedom should be done with A GOOD CHUCKLE < 1176008870 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, -nod- alrighty... HAVE A GOOD DAY. < 1176008898 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think once this operating system's written, we'll look back and say "wow, that was easy". Maybe. < 1176008900 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could get a mailing list < 1176008902 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to look cool < 1176008907 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could, yes. < 1176008912 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll go by the way of ESOS. < 1176008913 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or just like... a forum thing. < 1176008913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i guess the bush administration may not be big on the humor part. < 1176008914 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks. < 1176008919 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mailing lists are more useful when there's more than two people. < 1176008927 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with three we can get by easily. < 1176008938 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, not without me pushing for it forever... this has been a serious project on my mind for some time now. < 1176008946 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And four and five. Once you get people joining too fast to keep track of them all, you need a mailing list or something. < 1176008959 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mailing list, a forum, a chatroom, and a wiki. < 1176008964 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Will this be serious? I'll join then. < 1176008966 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thinking a mialing list would be nice so information doesn't get all fragmented. < 1176008970 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone knows what's going on. < 1176008973 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to already have #yaos registered for this. :-) < 1176008976 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Only on the condition that we support some non-C language at a basic level. < 1176008986 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see the letters ``yao'' I think ``yaoi''. < 1176008993 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, ...probably. Since I don't know C all tha twell. < 1176008998 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I register #aspirin and #sophia as well? < 1176009002 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's yaoi? < 1176009014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspirin? < 1176009015 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :male-male hentai. < 1176009016 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The genre of Boys-love in Japanese Animation. < 1176009023 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net always hentai. < 1176009024 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or that < 1176009032 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, don't blame the bishounen for being hawt. They just are. < 1176009036 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1176009051 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just like the Staff of Eucalyptus. < 1176009059 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eucalyptus! < 1176009062 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a great OS name! < 1176009064 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Eye of Tapioca. < 1176009068 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with IRC... only the people around to hear you get the message. < 1176009071 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: very. < 1176009077 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a mailing list you can be sure everyone gets the word. < 1176009085 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something you say when you don't remember what the word actually is. < 1176009119 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you program in SevenInchBread ? < 1176009132 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, when I said "now" there, I probably meant the now that's actually now. Send each other (and me) lots of emails so that this will suddenly become a real project. < 1176009150 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python... but I feel oddly confident that I could work with a host of other languages... even though I've never really used them. < 1176009154 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's an odd feeling. < 1176009164 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I'm sure I'd suck in all of them from the start. < 1176009191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still does not understand what aspirin is a mispeling of. < 1176009193 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1176009200 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A spring. < 1176009221 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll take the sourceforge people about 1 or 2 days to reject our project. < 1176009238 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're CakeProphet. < 1176009255 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googlecode doesn't require approval... but it doesn't have the public domain option. < 1176009260 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python: For Idiots and Cakeprophets. < 1176009268 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, I'm a poly-psuedonymous being, my friend. < 1176009281 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Now I really leave but, is there any project you'd rather do than a PDF Viewer that's moderately complex? < 1176009285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSEUDO!!!! < 1176009289 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, Yeah... despite being waaay too familiar with it... I hate it completely. < 1176009310 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OERJAN, THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS NOT FIXED < 1176009315 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A NEW WORD < 1176009319 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that I made up. < 1176009327 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: not that i can think of right now < 1176009342 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: :9 < 1176009342 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:( < 1176009364 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, does anyone here have any ideas for moderately complex practical projects? < 1176009366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only fixed in the sense "corrupt" < 1176009368 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword: Practical. < 1176009386 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...a MUD < 1176009391 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is working on a MUD. < 1176009428 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1176009437 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUDs are for NUBs. < 1176009472 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it reminds me of like... the filesystem part of an OS... minus all the heavy-duty hardware and memory shit... and all the speed concerns... < 1176009480 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and on a network. So basically almost nothing like an OS. < 1176009500 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread--; < 1176009528 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a hierarchy of things within other things.... and some commands. so it's vaguely like a virtual filesystem. < 1176009541 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like a .... a ... a .... game? < 1176009544 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps audibly. < 1176009557 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats Sukoshi for BREAKFAST < 1176009564 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT BELITTLE MY HOBBY < 1176009570 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MUD IS A PIECE OF ART. < 1176009575 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :games--; < 1176009576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1176009588 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1176009591 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you that < 1176009601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakfast? i thought you were in the US... < 1176009609 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in return... you have to call befunge a board game. < 1176009645 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ...the US has breakfast... just not at regular intervals. < 1176009655 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't eat breakfast today... < 1176009667 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176009743 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall return briefly. < 1176009998 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone else have any practical ideas that don't involve eating the discussioners along the way? < 1176010161 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドライの手の中まで! < 1176010566 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ドライ? < 1176010595 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dry. < 1176010607 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, from the middle of dry hands?!? < 1176011211 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahp. < 1176011218 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a quote from a song, heh. < 1176011267 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1176011277 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theo de raadt is like a little kid < 1176011288 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all are when we're next to the things we love. < 1176011298 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start hopping around when I see a baloon and some magnets. < 1176011315 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like tike induce a charge in the balloon and then spin the magnets around to cause the balloon to move. < 1176011318 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really fun. < 1176011341 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I like to < 1176011389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sad that licensing is such a big issue in FS < 1176011400 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yah, I forgot what happened about Reiser. < 1176011411 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He made a 5 minute blip on our local news some months ago. < 1176012012 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets up an Abrasax mailing list < 1176012460 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book gives a very good argument for OOP < 1176012483 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It does. < 1176012589 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've see very good arguments for both OOP and no-OOP < 1176012606 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP just shouldn't be overused < 1176012609 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...java < 1176012676 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... forced OOP can lead to overcomplicated designs... but used just right it can make really simple designs. < 1176012683 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about SmallTalk? < 1176012742 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm... I don't know... I always think of Smalltalk doing OOP the "right way"... at least with the builtin stuff. What people add on to it might be something totally different. < 1176012768 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Python's logging module is a very good reminder of when OO can go to far. < 1176012863 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has Loggers, Handlers, LogRecords, and Formatters, < 1176012875 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much what Java is.e < 1176012877 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is. < 1176012879 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...an entire class for log format info. < 1176012889 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: that module's pretty bad < 1176012896 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when it just stores a single string. < 1176012948 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I first saw the logging module it permanently tied a little ribbon around me... reminding me of how horrible OO can get. < 1176012955 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...never forget. < 1176013007 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... there's also Filters, the Manager. < 1176013012 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and < 1176013066 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/AbraSophia/ < 1176013121 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176013452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, dynamic loading < 1176014559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gsvensk" < 1176015146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176016840 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176016968 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176017816 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :necisito projectos buenos < 1176017858 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'proyectos' < 1176017861 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'necesito' < 1176017885 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right < 1176018253 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176019199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176019200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176020033 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176020055 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176020436 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176025184 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-184.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176028950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176039788 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176042714 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176042914 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's certainly one way to do it. < 1176043614 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's certainly not a bad way, either. < 1176044048 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176044092 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176045808 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders system calls and services < 1176046011 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176046488 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176046524 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176046684 0 :oklopol!n=villsalo@194.251.102.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176048769 0 :jix__!n=jix@host-091-096-186-130.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176048798 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176051129 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176051226 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded < 1176051245 0 :ais523!n=chatzill@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176051258 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176051267 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176051439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now known as ais523 < 1176051453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it would let me type that without distinguishing it in some way < 1176051468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, it shows up styled differently anyway < 1176051488 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, /me generally shows up differently. < 1176051568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, what's been happening to the esoteric OS idea that's been popping up in the logs now and again < 1176051573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/\?/ < 1176051614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm having Internet access problems at the moment, so can't come online as often as I'd like and have resorted to logreading (which I do anyway)) < 1176051710 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, nobody seems to have decided on an esoteric platform. < 1176051742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the C-INTERCAL distribution there were notes about making a microprocessor that ran INTERCAL natively < 1176051749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't think anyone ever managed that < 1176053342 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176055744 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1176058272 0 :jix__!n=jix@host-091-096-186-130.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176058455 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176058517 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176058612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176059724 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176061389 0 :atrapado!i=opened@247.Red-81-47-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176061583 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176063749 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176063760 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176064072 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176064262 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066145 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-29-3.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066332 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176066375 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066499 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176066549 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176066570 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176066980 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-035-247.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176067029 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176067236 0 :jix_____!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176067248 0 :jix_____!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176067291 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1176067843 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176068032 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176068361 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176070220 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176070859 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176070910 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176071228 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ShadowHntr < 1176072495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC looks fantastic < 1176072538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC? < 1176072543 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C. < 1176072561 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's C-acting-like-smalltalk. < 1176073000 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not apple's < 1176073120 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176073469 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the synchronization code is nice < 1176073488 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any object can be a semaphore < 1176073605 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"pinj timeout" < 1176073707 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@synchronized(someobject){ code that uses someobject} < 1176073865 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sick >.<" < 1176074033 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I was under the impression that Objective C was designed by Apple ... at the very least, Apple <3 ObjC < 1176074094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i understand, they use a weird mixture of C, C++ and ObjC these days, and it's quite horrible. < 1176074864 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176075023 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmmm... < 1176075032 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand the difference between a service and a process. < 1176075167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in principle several processes could handle the same service, and vice versa. < 1176075207 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work? < 1176075228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a service is what the client sees. a process is a way of implementing various tasks, including services. < 1176075254 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1176075450 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would the service know which process to delegate the task to? < 1176075458 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always thought of it as a one-to-one kind of mapping. < 1176075554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in practice there may usually be a single process handling the initial connection, unless it is truly distributed. < 1176075592 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- that makes sense. < 1176075610 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to do for processes what UNIX did with files. < 1176075665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a ...? < 1176075688 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no... I mean... give processes a hierarchy and refer to them by name. < 1176075709 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using numbers to refer to processes just doesn't sound... very useful. < 1176075728 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -f /proc/init < 1176075731 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boom < 1176075732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named pipes exist and are slightly similar. < 1176075732 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1176075819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially processes attached to the filesystem, with reading/writing going to the process stdin/out < 1176075856 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very secondary though. < 1176075920 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows parlance, a service is something like a daemon in unix. < 1176076112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like something unixes can probably already do, although they aren't optimized for it. < 1176076154 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it could < 1176076173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic links to /proc, maybe < 1176076212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not versed in the details of this. < 1176076245 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be harder to map out processes in a directory structure based on childness. < 1176076349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a more fundamental approach, i guess forks/execs should take a filename argument to place each process. < 1176076487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and persistence would be a natural part of this. < 1176076664 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A service here is an interface provided by a process. < 1176076694 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A process can register a service, then other processes can request them. < 1176077132 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just a name? < 1176077176 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. < 1176077222 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon omfg bf ,+++++++++++++[.,+++++++++++++] < 1176077230 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg i < 1176077247 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....is that a service? < 1176077258 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects < 1176077310 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!omfg i < 1176077318 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1176077320 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 SevenInchBread: ps < 1176077405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf default is 16-bit, so you would be hard pressed getting either a halt or a newline out of that < 1176077435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. nothing will be printed until buffer overflows, i think. < 1176077469 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, oh alright... so with my idea I'm basically saying every process is a service... and the organizational structure is kind similar to a filesystem hierarchy. < 1176077477 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1176077569 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: I'm thinking letting processes offer more than one service or none at all would add a little versatility. < 1176077596 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should every process be a service? < 1176077600 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... how would it know which service it's doing? < 1176077610 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're just feeding it input. < 1176077613 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it know which service it's doing? < 1176077628 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A process pretty much chooses what services to provide. < 1176077641 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean...? < 1176077662 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The process is told what service has been called with what data. < 1176077664 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... if one process was registered as two services with two fundamentally different tasks... and you used one - how would the process know which one it's handling. < 1176077674 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty simple. < 1176077677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have the process register streams at different addresses. < 1176077719 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about streams? < 1176077720 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... that's a good idea. Except the stream part. :) I think Erlang "mailbox"-ish IO mechanisms would work nicely. < 1176077747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having just stdin and stdout as interface, which i think is what is confusing here < 1176077762 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah... I see what you mean. < 1176077775 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why be mailboxish when you can have your processes provide procedures that can be called directly? < 1176077789 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm talking Pascal now for some reason, aren't I?) < 1176077806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this leads then to the conclusion that procedures should also be placed in the filesystem < 1176077808 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, asynchronousness. < 1176077819 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... that could be an option. < 1176077846 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: if you provide procedures like that, the program can handle mailboxes by itself. < 1176077851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before long we have arbitrary objects (in a general sense) < 1176077867 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: placing procedures in the filesystem? < 1176077868 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just saying... instead of the stream of bytes... you have a queue of.... stuff. < 1176077896 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the data gets partitioned... instead of jumbled alltogether in a huge chain. < 1176077919 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say something to the contrary? < 1176077923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that each service should have at least one spot in the filesystem, if i understand SevenInchBread correctly < 1176077940 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Services need not be invoked with plain old bits and bytes. < 1176077948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but I haven't agreed to that. :-P < 1176077958 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting services in the filesystem isn't a bad idea, though. < 1176077970 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... kinda. Maybe not -literally- in the filesystem... but I was much wanting processes to be organized in a structure that resembled a filesystem. < 1176077974 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a job for the filesystem handler, not for the kernel. < 1176078019 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having processes arranged in trees is... well, what's the reason behind that? < 1176078041 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically... it's an implication of giving processes names. < 1176078058 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from its use in rationing CPU time. < 1176078070 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we gave them names and didn't organize the names into some kind of scope... it would have all the problems of a flat filesystem. < 1176078106 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you just put slashes in there or something? < 1176078122 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashes? < 1176078146 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can still have foo/bar/baz isn't if it's not baz inside bar inside foo. < 1176078162 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... in my examples... I just used spaces... ala-Smalltalk message-passing (which is a similar concept). < 1176078173 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your examples? < 1176078180 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fs cd" except < 1176078183 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... etc < 1176078291 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just have another service called fs/cd and/or have cd be part of the message to the fs service? < 1176078316 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- it could work. < 1176078322 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176078324 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1176078329 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1176078338 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "cd" part is literally just a string being passed to fs < 1176078345 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fs can choose to do whatever the hell it wants with it. < 1176078442 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176078445 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like your names nice and flat... making some macros wouldn't be too impossible. < 1176078459 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro set (cd, fs cd) < 1176078499 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176078520 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there really any reason to put services in a tree like that/ < 1176078521 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or you could borrow another concept from file hierarchies and do "current processes" < 1176078538 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- not really... it's not really all that necessary. < 1176078557 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176078578 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, how's the SourceForge coming? < 1176078601 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no word as of yet. < 1176078641 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about representing time? < 1176078654 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can all be done with ObjC distributed objects! < 1176078664 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that Google Groups does offer some storage space? < 1176078667 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and another benefit of microkernels is that we have no obligation to write everything in one language. < 1176078671 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about representing time? < 1176078677 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, that's true. < 1176078689 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code behind fs or any other process major OS process could be any language. < 1176078719 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it would be kind of stupid to do time like all the major OSes... since it's going to run out of ticking power by 2032 < 1176078751 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or whatever the year is. < 1176078768 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it 64-bit? < 1176078790 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about bignum? < 1176078794 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable length. < 1176078831 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit won't go bad for a while. < 1176078842 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do like.... a base-256 numeral system... in reverse order (the smallest place values come first) < 1176078848 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though bignums aren't bad. < 1176078858 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and terminate with a null. < 1176078870 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the length can be arbitarry... and you won't ever have to worry about it. < 1176078896 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(2^64) seconds = 5.84554531 * 10^11 years" < 1176078912 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We won't be the ones to worry about it. < 1176078922 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... sure < 1176078926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminate with a null? then it would be buggy < 1176078940 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if its in reverse order. < 1176078949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it would < 1176078951 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... well yeah < 1176078984 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe have a special byte for the terminator... and have do base-255. but for the OS, 64-bit should be enough. < 1176079012 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we use 256 bits, we'll be good until all protons in the universe have decayed. < 1176079027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time Error: Date is beyond Universe Heat Death < 1176079045 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....actually... let's go with a 230-bit integer. < 1176079054 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...just cause. < 1176079094 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176079109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long do red dwarf stars live again, hm... < 1176079152 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes wonder what the computer world would be like if we could specify the size of our bytes. < 1176079153 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bits. < 1176079157 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be enough. < 1176079161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 64 bit won't be enough for that then. < 1176079202 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 500,000,000,000 years, somebody'll have invented a way to translate everything up to 128 bits. < 1176079237 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt Abrasax/YAOS/Sophia will still be in use by then, anyway. < 1176079248 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....pretty sure the Earth or at the very least humans will be gone by that time. < 1176079268 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...good riddance, I say. < 1176079299 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1176079315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, a misanthrope. or a misgean? < 1176079349 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we stay on topic, eh? < 1176079372 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can always take this into #off-topic. < 1176079385 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, just how will we compile our kernel? < 1176079442 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't want to ride your topics. < 1176079444 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176079448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will load it into the atmosphere of a red dwarf. < 1176079455 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm.... I don't know. I've never actually used a compiler before. < 1176079511 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, kinda. I have a love-hate relationship with humanity. < 1176079528 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we steal the "Multiboot example". < 1176079563 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything specific about memory management we want to do? What about paging? < 1176079574 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/multiboot/multiboot.html#Example-OS-code < 1176079590 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel will probably have to handle memory management. < 1176079595 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least some of it. < 1176079606 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't leave loading processes up to a process it can't load. < 1176079638 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah... one of the main jobs of the kernel is memory management. < 1176079644 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to process-ify that. < 1176079680 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that familiar with how memory works. < 1176079688 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a little bid. < 1176079696 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you know? < 1176079700 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddy system allocation, paging files, etc.... the usual stuff. < 1176079710 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how processes work... < 1176079714 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buddy system allocation? < 1176079753 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a little bit about processes. < 1176079769 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_memory_allocation < 1176079792 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how processes interact with the kernel to get memory though... I just know bits and pieces of HOW the kernel can go about handing out memory. < 1176079842 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that be done via system calls? < 1176079882 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so... I've never used realloc and malloc in C. < 1176079889 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm assuming that's what they exist for. < 1176079959 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory management is kind of weird... you've got to find the best way to package a bunch of little blocks so that they can be picked up quickly < 1176079985 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We may have to find an expert. < 1176080012 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paging is probably the way to go.... all the big OSes use it... so its tried and testing < 1176080014 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. tested < 1176080073 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... the hardware kinda handles paging for us. < 1176080086 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expert? < 1176080089 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs em < 1176080093 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need to write the program that reacts to a page fault. < 1176080135 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you know more than I do on the subject. < 1176080169 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging < 1176080251 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a large amount of OS performance relies on a good paging algorithm. < 1176080341 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think you can handle it? < 1176080407 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....I don't know a thing about how to do it. < 1176080413 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I just know like... what it's supposed to do. < 1176080453 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the other factor in the performance of this OS will be how quickly it can handle IPC... which is a bit more important to a micro kernel. < 1176080473 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176080699 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think we should recruit an expert, then? < 1176080705 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... IPC doesn't mean shit if the process isn't scheduled to execute at the proper time. < 1176080711 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... scheduling will be the other thing. < 1176080722 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, nah.. < 1176080729 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1176080736 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to learn how to mess up. :) < 1176080736 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do processes need to be scheduled to run at the right time? < 1176080771 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, failure results in learning. < 1176080778 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... one of the OSes jobs is to schedule which processes get to run and at one time. There's only so many processes that can run at any given time. < 1176080853 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean multiple processes can run at the same time? < 1176080856 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_scheduling < 1176080881 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I mean... there's only so many processes that can be "active" at any given time. < 1176080897 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1176080905 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....forgot why. < 1176080905 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just what is being "active", now? < 1176080917 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you remember, seeing as how I have doubts. < 1176080926 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_states <--LOL MORE LINKS < 1176080939 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is researching as he goes. < 1176080963 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process swapping. < 1176081003 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, process swapping. < 1176081021 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we leave *that* up to a process? < 1176081052 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... to a certain extent OSes do... Windows for example lets me set the process priority. < 1176081081 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, failure results in learning, but aren't we aiming for success? < 1176081087 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....so... I can set "firefox.exe" to realtime... and then it'll take me a good hour to try to move my mouse back to set it back to normal. < 1176081103 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, we can fail, and then correct our mistakes. < 1176081169 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather succeed the first time around. :-) < 1176081179 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless we can go faster by learning. < 1176081208 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see... the problem is that if you set the priority of a process extremly high, but keep all the processes that it accesses at normal... then the high-priority process will be spending most of its time waiting for its dependencies to become active. < 1176081240 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... probably the best priority scheme is one based on a combination of reaction time as well as independence. < 1176081246 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could let processes switch to other processes. < 1176081256 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mouse... for example... should be highly responsive... < 1176081281 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invoke a service provided by a process, then switch to that process. < 1176081309 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1176081348 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite that simple. < 1176081351 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not? < 1176081364 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because processes are fairly asynchronous... there is no "return value". < 1176081403 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no return value? < 1176081409 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1176081453 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... processes don't wait for the results of other processes... they're all running at the same time. < 1176081484 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest scheduling algorithm is an equal time algorithm... which ensures that each processes gets a chance to execute... < 1176081503 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can start with that one... and then find one that finds more efficient uses of time later. < 1176081504 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176081576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only real reason equal-time scheduling doesn't work is because not all processes need an equal share. < 1176081578 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not all running at the same time. < 1176081609 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's keeping us from adding a system call saying "spend the rest of this time slice on that process"? < 1176081611 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an HTTP server - which spents most of its time waiting for something to send it a request... doesn't need near as much time as a video game. < 1176081632 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, that's just a specific situation... it doesn't solve the whole problem. < 1176081662 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't the HTTP server end its time slice early? < 1176081766 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1176081798 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, while it's blocking, the OS needs to put an entry in the ptable that says it's not available for scheduling < 1176081866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocking is something I'm going to have to understand, isn't it? < 1176081916 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176081926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blocking is when a proccess waits for some external input < 1176081942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me that the HTTP server problem is if a process has two "states" - one where it does immediate work in response to a request, and one where it does occasional work while otherwise waiting. < 1176081944 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, when a proccess is blocking, the scheduler shouldn't give it any proc time < 1176081960 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, yeah that works fine... but you can't expect the process to handle itself... programmers don't want to have to think about time slices. < 1176081964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they may need different priorities. < 1176081984 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: so how do we know whether it's blocking or not? < 1176081999 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... blocking is explicit. < 1176082005 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only blocking system calls can block < 1176082028 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocking can only be the result of a system call? < 1176082034 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176082071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could of course have a system call that did nothing but end the current time slice < 1176082074 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my program splits off a subprocess... I can explicitly say "wait for this process to return a result" < 1176082108 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then, the HTTP server invokes a service that waits for an incoming connection. The process that handles the service does all the work--right? < 1176082113 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like waitpid(2)? < 1176082132 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176082137 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except.... with names. :) < 1176082142 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait for process termination? < 1176082146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1176082149 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a block < 1176082160 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "wait for service to return a result"? :-) < 1176082171 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: names are ugly < 1176082174 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either one works... < 1176082179 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, ................................. < 1176082186 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you come up with the names? < 1176082191 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: single words (ints) are much nicer < 1176082194 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then.... in Sophia the file system shall reference files by number. < 1176082199 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, they're pretty convenient. < 1176082209 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: let's not violate WP:POINT here. < 1176082215 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176082218 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WIKINERD < 1176082220 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that this would be a WP:POINT violation even if this were Wikipedia. < 1176082234 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, let's not use slippery slope arguments or whatever they're called. < 1176082265 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I just can't fathom how numbers are more convient than names. < 1176082268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just inodes isn't it? < 1176082281 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I create a file, I usually have a name in mind for it. If I don't have a name in mind, I might choose a number. When I create a process, I usually don't have a name in mind for it. < 1176082285 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed... we have DNS because names are more convient than numbers. < 1176082297 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: it's easier to store a name than it is to store a number. < 1176082305 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Names are for things that persist. < 1176082307 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1176082314 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1176082320 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an int will always be one word < 1176082324 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ...why is that important though? < 1176082325 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/name/number/ and vice verse. < 1176082331 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/verse/versa/ :-P < 1176082337 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: why is what important? < 1176082343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally the name would be optional, and initialized like a temporary file name if not provided < 1176082351 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ints being easier to store than names. < 1176082353 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alternatively: s/easier/harder/) < 1176082368 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system calls are numbers, file descriptors are numbers, permissions are numbers... < 1176082377 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, names are fine. < 1176082381 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pids are numbers... < 1176082382 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why have them? < 1176082385 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in UNIX < 1176082390 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in unix < 1176082420 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why? A number has no referential meaning to a human... they're only convient for the computer - which is fine in some cases. < 1176082424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however if the OS supports process persistence (and otherwise, why go to all this trouble?) then you might run out of numbers. < 1176082448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1176082454 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: humans are stupid < 1176082473 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately. < 1176082475 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not especially often you need to refer to a process by ID. < 1176082476 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we have OSes < 1176082486 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to help the stupid computers work with the stupid humans. < 1176082517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could say "the process providing the 'fs' service" or "the process that's an instance of /foo/bar" or "the process that's using all the CPU time". < 1176082551 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... I've been referring conceptually to fs being the actual process. < 1176082575 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the process that's using all the CPU time is the only instance of the executable, we refer it to is as "the process that's an instance of /foo/bar". Otherwise, how do we come up with names for all the instances? < 1176082593 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you let the processes name themselves, you end up with things like processes named "_________________________". < 1176082611 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And processes named "ø". < 1176082626 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :names are useful for persistance of any kind.... fs will always remain fs each time it is around... that way we have a quick and global reference to it. < 1176082638 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fs is the name of the service, not the name of the process. < 1176082644 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, is that any more troublesome than "the process 242" < 1176082651 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, maybe to you. < 1176082663 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: well, you have to copy and paste the underscores rather than typing them by hand. < 1176082679 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell how many underscores there are without doing something tedious? < 1176082693 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can copy "242" much more easily. < 1176082695 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's a stupid example. :P < 1176082704 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My example or yours? < 1176082708 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours. < 1176082715 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it stupid? < 1176082729 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed... someone could name their process "asfkjskdljdklgjdlkgjlkdgkldfjgkljdfg".... but then they're fucking retarded. < 1176082744 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are people in the world who are fucking retarded. < 1176082745 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you probably don't want whatever that process does. < 1176082755 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that means you need to kill it. < 1176082762 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwnt. < 1176082775 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hahahahaha < 1176082775 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather type 242 than copy-and-paste that thing. < 1176082783 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies. < 1176082791 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh - that was fucking brilliant. < 1176082796 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job. < 1176082850 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... so then you can simply have numbers AND names. like file descriptors and file names. < 1176082866 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same like unix < 1176082873 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a proccess's "name" is its path < 1176082877 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have process names, again? Service names, sure, but why process names? < 1176082885 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with unix the process names aren't unique. < 1176082898 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason we have file names. < 1176082905 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pids are, though < 1176082912 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- right. < 1176082926 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about a unique reference name and a unique ID number. < 1176082955 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically... a service IS a process.... a process with a name in front of it. < 1176082956 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking giving every process a name is like giving every inode or whatever you call it a name. < 1176082971 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not in UNIX... in UNIX the service name -creates- a new process each time it's referred to. < 1176082986 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. The services act as the names, so what reason is there to give each process another name? < 1176082990 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think we're doing that... unless we want to spawn a process each time we refer to "fs" < 1176083000 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176083052 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not proccesses, just objects < 1176083053 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... alright... < 1176083064 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, NO. We are not going all fucking OO < 1176083066 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users and application developers need to know "fs", the service name. They don't need to know the name of the process. < 1176083080 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: what you describe is message passing OO < 1176083086 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what you try to call it < 1176083105 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proccesses have private data and can be sent messages. they are objects. < 1176083111 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I just don't like the concept of the service. I just like... the concept of "a name for a process"... the name can optional sure, but it's not a separate entity from the process itself. < 1176083138 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's pretty much what a service is, really. < 1176083154 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that you can attach multiple services to a process. < 1176083159 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, what I described is the desktop metaphor... it's also a good bedtime story and makes for a damn good sexual joke. Is that an apple or a red fruit? < 1176083166 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not every process needs a service at all. < 1176083177 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1176083181 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'm still not sure how that would work. < 1176083189 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How what would work? < 1176083211 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having multiple names for a process... each doing something different. < 1176083227 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv[0]? < 1176083236 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the service is invoked, the process is told what service it was. < 1176083241 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1176083290 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I should get to bed. There's school tomorrow. < 1176083297 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1176083303 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think I'd just like there to be a persistent name for processes. A service does this nicely... but then how difficult does it become to create a new name for your process? < 1176083334 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[And then somebody yells "Let's get going!", and "Walking On Sunshine" by Katrina and the Waves starts playing.] < 1176083397 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, the weird apple-red-fruit thing was referring to the notion of identity. < 1176083407 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is only OO if we decide to refer to it as such. < 1176083412 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: the process requests permission to use that service name, something grants permission, and the process registers that service name. < 1176083430 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the process already has permission, in which case it simply registers it. < 1176083441 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, across multiple OS runs? < 1176083704 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebooting is for wimps < 1176083765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booting is for rewimps < 1176084154 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: services aren't preserved when rebooting, but permissions may be. < 1176084199 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks they should. :( < 1176084204 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See "'default' permissions". < 1176084218 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: well, indeed, services could be preserved when rebooting. < 1176084229 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would mean processes being preserved when rebooting. < 1176084235 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know that's iffy. < 1176084269 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's yucky < 1176084449 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Default" permissions are stored in along with the executable, somehow, and therefore preserved when rebooting. < 1176084475 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with record-based filesystems < 1176084479 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not too hard to do < 1176084502 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record-based filesystems? < 1176084518 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... instead of storing files as streams you store them as hash-table-like things < 1176084533 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1176084545 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1176084666 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I like the idea. < 1176084675 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about hash tables? < 1176084690 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it makes a shitload more sense than cramming all the info into a stream and having to parse out all the data < 1176084729 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the filesystem handler does all the parsing instead of the client? < 1176084781 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... sorta kinda.... depends on how its stored on the disc < 1176084785 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, essentially, yes. < 1176084797 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how it's stored on the disk? < 1176084824 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... instead of using bytes to delimit record entries you can use some physical property of the disk sector or something... < 1176084836 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, generally speaking, the filesystem does all the work for you. < 1176084889 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could always have a "hash table handler". < 1176084910 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record-oriented_file < 1176084948 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also sequantial access... which works something like a linked list instead of a hash table < 1176084967 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... data that's split up into lines could give each line a record. < 1176085005 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for me to go to bed. < 1176085011 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Night. < 1176085178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Ook < 1176086175 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176087783 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. . . < 1176087800 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I friggin' hate glibc. < 1176087809 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frodo:/source/glibc-build# /source/glibc-2.5/configure --prefix=/usr --disable-profile --enable-addons --enable-kernel=2.6.0 --libexecdir=/usr/lib/glibc < 1176087810 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in scripts /scripts < 1176088272 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you don't try to compile glibc < 1176088602 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a distro. What else am I supposed to do? < 1176088611 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Use uclibc? < 1176088636 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's a pretty decent thought. < 1176088858 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe make this sucker use really, *really* small packages. < 1176088949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use "make the lazy bastards code it themselves"libc < 1176088960 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1176089143 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw it. < 1176089159 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using buildroot to create the initial root tree. . . < 1176089185 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll then use the buildroot environment to compile my own packages, overwriting everything eventually. < 1176090628 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176094922 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1176096139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ZZZ" < 1176105027 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176105599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176105600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176105724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176107455 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176107609 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Hey! < 1176107622 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a cellular automata VM? < 1176111259 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-82.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176114987 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176115015 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176115732 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.198.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176116350 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-82.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176116940 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176116960 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176117521 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176117521 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1176124264 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-176-081.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176124846 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176125092 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix____ < 1176125229 0 :jix____!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176128899 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: what would that be? < 1176131393 0 :falseep!n=falseep@218.242.110.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176131934 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176131956 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176133221 0 :falseep!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176135069 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-185-096.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176135564 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176136896 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176139159 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176139193 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176141714 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Dunno, we'd have to reduce every simple cellularo automota to VM commands. < 1176142393 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176142562 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-185-096.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176143081 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1176143467 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176143630 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176143863 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric < 1176146206 0 :atrapado!i=opened@186.Red-81-47-14.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176146708 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176148559 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176150722 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176150811 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176151369 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176151838 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176152302 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1176152503 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Dead socket < 1176152557 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176152792 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176152803 0 :dub_!i=opened@161.Red-81-47-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176152829 0 :dub_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :atrapado < 1176153114 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1176153152 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yarr! < 1176153156 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I be an IRC pirate! < 1176153344 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176153358 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yarr! < 1176153364 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I be a disconnected IRC pirate! < 1176153413 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1176153682 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I half-officially declare the name of "the operating system project" to be Abrasax, < 1176153685 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/./ < 1176153705 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could have trademark issues with Sophia. < 1176153725 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the half-official IRC channel is #abrasax. < 1176153802 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whassisnow? < 1176153919 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/AbraSophia < 1176153978 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods as if he has an effing clue what's going on. < 1176153993 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an operating system project, < 1176153995 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/./ < 1176154002 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric? < 1176154005 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1176154384 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176155511 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll be the one to do all the "dirty work" of getting the basic bit of kernel down. < 1176157343 0 :dub_!i=opened@140.Red-81-47-0.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176157423 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176157426 0 :dub_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :atrapado < 1176157643 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: sounds fun < 1176158159 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I don't know much about CAs though < 1176158208 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. A lot happened on March 26, according to the logs. < 1176158250 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Pez. < 1176158370 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1176158375 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 16KB stack, eh? < 1176158408 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Google can do things like "0x4000 bytes in kilobytes" < 1176158460 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1176158538 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# define EXT_C(sym) _ ## sym" < 1176158540 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google will end up as a natural language interpreter < 1176158545 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1176158553 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that _ ## mean anything special to the preprocessor? < 1176158560 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176158575 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it mean? < 1176158592 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## is either concatenation or turning into a string < 1176158617 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it do in this case? < 1176158640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec < 1176158653 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## is concatenation < 1176158664 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so EXT_C(foo) => _foo < 1176158715 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1176158720 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's "movl $(stack + STACK_SIZE), %esp" do? < 1176158838 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it puts the address of the top of the stack in esp < 1176158859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm just guessing < 1176159350 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variadic cpp macros are fun < 1176160017 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176160059 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176160788 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. I'm finding ObjC less and less attractive. < 1176160808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the end of initial infatuation < 1176160829 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I had thought that ObjC was a simple object layer wrapped around C. < 1176160845 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dynamic runtime stuff is interesting ... but it's said to be slow. < 1176160877 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesen't someone implement a generic function based OOP extension to C? It would be easier to code than a message-passing one. < 1176160938 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm paralyzed between Java and D for a new project. I need GregorR to shower me with D's advantages once more. < 1176161005 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176161082 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't GregorR our resident parser god anyways? < 1176161102 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I did < 1176161121 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Did what? < 1176161124 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the beginnings of one < 1176161142 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A generic function based OOP extension to C < 1176161151 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if I had the experience with writing language parsers, I'd like to create a simple superset of C for generic functions. < 1176161195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has dirty corners in its parsing. < 1176161206 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this would parse it into straight C. < 1176161209 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And compile that. < 1176161226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not context-free. < 1176161232 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1176161260 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be an interesting project in fact. A light OOP extension to C without major additions to the language and huge stdlibs. < 1176161327 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing :/ < 1176161441 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here's how I see it: < 1176161461 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can create classes as a set of slots. It'll be done in the same syntax as a struct, except we'll call it object. < 1176161488 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So you have something like ``object hi { int a; char b; } '' < 1176161491 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1176161579 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You then define a method using a syntax like ``void display (hi obj, int x, int y)'' and then you can add_generic() a function pointer. < 1176161594 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*function pointer to display() < 1176161621 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... We don't need a parser for this ... do we? < 1176161646 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh but we have to grab the method signature somehow. < 1176161647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/object/struct < 1176161650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your parser! < 1176161673 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when you use call_generic(display), it'll have to lookup display. < 1176161685 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is practically the same algorithm as objc message passing < 1176161701 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it avoids the annoying dynamic runtime of ObjC. < 1176161718 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And based on the parameters you give call_generic, it needs to be able to match the correct function. < 1176161724 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to pull up my C reference, hold on. < 1176161776 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call_generic() is the same as objc_msgSend() < 1176161837 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the difference in ObjC is the whole business with id. < 1176161866 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...dynamic typing is nice < 1176161876 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's *slow*. < 1176161887 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and running through a linked list to find a method doesn't seem very slow < 1176161899 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, almost all the spare links on ObjC say so. < 1176161918 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all advise keeping method invocations to a minimum because it slows the program down. < 1176161938 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it [obj message] -- obj->isa, hash table lookup, obj->isa->super, hash table lookup, obj->isa->super->super... < 1176161941 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very slow < 1176161954 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the weblinkse I've read say *shrug*. < 1176161958 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*weblinks < 1176162112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all a method invocation needs to do is a lookup in a hash table < 1176162124 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a few hash tables if the inheritance is deep < 1176162162 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more to it. < 1176162186 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ObjC runtime doesen't type check at compile time for message passing, in case you want to change stuff later. < 1176162199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is part of what leads to the slowdown. < 1176162299 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1176162307 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow :( < 1176162347 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking up a method in objc is the same as looking up a variable in a interpreted language < 1176162409 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176162421 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for something just a tad bit slower than C. < 1176162430 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is very slow < 1176162434 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is going to be slower < 1176162438 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google begs to differ. < 1176162444 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google says that Java is faster. < 1176162459 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's counter intuitive < 1176162467 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is by no means slow if programmed correctly, you know. < 1176162475 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sheer amount of work done on the runtime is incredible. < 1176162490 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think JVM, SqueakVM, and ParrotVM are the most worked on in this respect. < 1176162502 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more work than the objc runtime < 1176162504 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence slower < 1176162513 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1176162522 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Java runtime has been optimized incredibly. < 1176162528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is stupid < 1176162553 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if you think about it logically, people (for good or for ill) have been putting work into the runtime for 10 years. < 1176162565 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objc is older than java < 1176162576 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it hasn't been continually developed is the problem. < 1176162597 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with C++. < 1176162610 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you see many changes to the g++ code on a daily basis. < 1176163374 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176163477 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176163588 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176163777 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any people willing to help with the parser? < 1176164496 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc is < 1176164506 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yacc isn't a person :P < 1176164587 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o speed the messaging process, the runtime system caches the selectors and addresses of methods as they are used < 1176164620 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so searching through the superclasses only happens once < 1176164642 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we should write sample code before we judge. < 1176164805 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see the definition of objc_object < 1176164807 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSKit, eh? < 1176164857 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176165040 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objc_class too < 1176165289 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSKit? < 1176165336 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSKit sounds like a useful thing. < 1176165347 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very useful thing. < 1176165371 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find the "objc" include directory < 1176165676 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/gnustep/libs/libobjc/trunk/objc/ < 1176165763 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks pretty simple < 1176166359 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :K-lined < 1176166360 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :K-lined < 1176166443 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnustep is _huge_ < 1176166455 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Uh, did GregorR just get K-lined? < 1176166461 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1176166476 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it is bsmntbombdood. < 1176166488 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to find what you're looking for < 1176166511 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of my problems. ObjC has almost no development going in it. < 1176166524 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's perfect already < 1176166678 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for objc_msgSend < 1176167033 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176167603 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if instance variables were dynamic like messages are < 1176167905 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1176167964 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't access instance variables if the object is typed id < 1176167966 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/gnustep/libs/libobjc/trunk/sendmsg.c?rev=22341&view=auto < 1176167976 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ there's the good stuff < 1176168047 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's because it's a class object then. < 1176168364 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd < 1176168385 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the message sending function looks up the method from a linked list of methods < 1176168388 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a hash table < 1176168392 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie linear time < 1176168473 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems classes keep both < 1176168491 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hope so, because you can make a tree based on parameters. < 1176168499 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1176168550 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. Nevermind. I was thinking of the system I had in mind. < 1176168576 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objc_class has both a objc_method_list*, a aaray, and a sarray*, a hash table/sparse array < 1176168579 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both holding methods < 1176168629 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named methods and dtable, respectively < 1176168652 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, are we using libobjc from GCC or GNUStep ? < 1176168660 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr, I mean. < 1176168674 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we using Foundation from GNUStep or just subclassing from libobjc? < 1176168697 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean NSObject or Object? < 1176168707 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1176168713 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSObject < 1176168768 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1176168773 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we going to use Foundation stuff? < 1176168792 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any reason not to < 1176168826 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1176168836 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now. Cellular Automata VM? < 1176168848 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno how that would work < 1176168907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you mean Virtual Machine rather than Virtual Memory? < 1176168962 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176169219 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1176169244 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd have to create a set of assembler commands that can define cellular automata. < 1176169268 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weirdos. < 1176169271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders adding extra time dimensions to ALPACA. < 1176169291 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think cellular automata are imperative. < 1176169303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not < 1176169335 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just build a universal constructor and have the program be instructions to it. < 1176169338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and space dimensions too, of course) < 1176169400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION envisions an ALPACA bytecode would do. < 1176169430 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPACA? < 1176169444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cellular automaton description language < 1176169453 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link please. < 1176169464 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ALPACA < 1176169495 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. Is this a practical project? :P < 1176169512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPACA has already been implemented. < 1176169513 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once "Game of Life" hardware becomes common, you'll really want that constructor stuff. < 1176169522 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "once" is just my fancy way of saying "if".) < 1176169528 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1176169538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it could be a practical project. < 1176169552 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fancy way of saying no, isn't it? < 1176169661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION generally says no to projects. Or at least his hands do. < 1176169750 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the best way to implement a sparse array is < 1176169762 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176169766 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose an ordered binary tree would work < 1176169899 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's O(log n) best, O(n) worst though < 1176169959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert "balanced" at appropriate spot. < 1176169979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then remove "O(n) worst". < 1176169986 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n) if the objects are inserted in sorted order < 1176170035 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176170048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they probably would be if read from a file. But if you know they are sorted you can use a different algorithm. < 1176170075 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1176170119 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, suddenly idea. < 1176170130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the tree balanced immediately. < 1176170145 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I saw the accidental "ly" before I sent that, but I decided to leave it in.) < 1176170158 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's about Abrasax, not this, so... yah. < 1176170169 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how... < 1176170289 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and O(log n) still isn't good < 1176170322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursively: make 2^n-1 first elements into one subtree, then read middle, then 2^n-1 next into another, then put together. < 1176170479 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176170598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are going to worry about log n, then you need to read serious literature, not ask on IRC. :) < 1176170628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you find a channel with the real experts. < 1176170688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chances are at that level you need to worry about things like cache behavior. < 1176170700 0 :graue!i=graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176170716 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, graue? < 1176170719 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?/!/ < 1176170723 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1176170730 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you hear about GregorR getting K-lined? < 1176170731 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i wondered why you were incredulous < 1176170733 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176170746 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about incredulity? < 1176170763 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176170792 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather: < 1176170796 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: what's this about incredulity? < 1176170810 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you said hello with a question mark, i thought you were like "what?! GRAUE is here?! how can this be!!!" < 1176170821 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor got K-lined?1? < 1176170826 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i need to learn to use my irc client, because i just answered you in a different channel < 1176170833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ave Graue, Morituri Te Salutant! < 1176170841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1176170844 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* EgoBot has quit (K-lined) < 1176170844 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* GregorR has quit (K-lined) < 1176170860 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why'd that happen? < 1176170867 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was for spamming. < 1176170890 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spamming who < 1176170901 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176170918 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1176170926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it was code. < 1176170945 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, indeed, an EgoBot bug may cause spamming. < 1176170953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1176170958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot better guess < 1176170968 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, may have caused. < 1176171036 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1176171056 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Broken client, apparently .. not sure the details", "I'm speculating, but usually that reason means it was disconnecting/reconnecting/etc.. or joining/rejoining/etc.." < 1176171088 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this, now? < 1176171109 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked a staffer < 1176171132 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you got a better answer than I did. < 1176171149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there were no disconnections before the k-line. < 1176171196 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed there weren't. < 1176171212 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be join/part stuff, then, which EgoBot doesn't do. < 1176171226 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys have too much free time. < 1176171238 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode people aren't arbitrary < 1176171244 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure gregor can work it out with them < 1176171258 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the freenode person did say "usually". < 1176171268 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the freenode people not being arbitrary mean it wasn't bot spam that caused this? < 1176171279 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176171327 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, freenode staff are pretty arbitrary < 1176171384 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if GregorR's been K-lined for EgoBot, I'm surprised you haven't been K-lined for bsmnt_bot or something. :-) < 1176171409 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bot isn't in any channels that staff are in < 1176171414 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: Not been reported for spamming. < 1176171423 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Nor was EgoBot. < 1176171433 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1176171441 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec while 1: __import__("time").sleep(2); self.raw("PRIVMSG ihope_ :Ya!") < 1176171460 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ps < 1176171461 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 'while 1: __import__("time").sleep(2); self.raw("PRIVMSG ihope_ :Ya!")', 18.34 seconds < 1176171465 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~kill 0 < 1176171466 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha you fail < 1176171472 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me how to kill it, will you? < 1176171478 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~kill 0 < 1176171483 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1176171487 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was actually sending you messages? < 1176171490 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1176171491 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1176171497 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone must have identified it < 1176171509 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have UNFILTERED set. < 1176171512 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176171528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~raw privmsg bsmntbombdood :foo < 1176171553 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec while 1: __import__("time").sleep(2); self.raw("PRIVMSG ihope_ :Ya!") < 1176171567 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::orwell.freenode.net 505 bsmnt_bot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg ) < 1176171584 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~kill 0 < 1176171586 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm thinking it's definitely the UNFILTERED. < 1176171591 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176171935 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Curses, if you use mvwaddch, does it go to the absolute y and x, or relative to the origin of the window? < 1176173410 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176173619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The routines prefixed with mv require a y and x coordinate to move to before performing the appropriate action. The mv routines imply a call to move before the call to the other routine. The coordinate y always refers to the row (of the window), and x always refers to the column. The upper left-hand corner is always (0,0), not (1,1). < 1176173627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(man ncurses) < 1176176419 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should design an esolang for human-human communication < 1176176427 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is so overrated < 1176176505 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, there's english as lisp < 1176176583 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Lojban. < 1176176583 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176176591 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(need we (no other)) < 1176177353 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :xor < 1176178101 0 :xor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1176178261 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176180963 0 :Bigcheesegs!n=blah@adsl-152-48-236.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176182049 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176184018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176184282 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176189921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176190739 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-137-146.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176191690 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176191722 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176191999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176192000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176192779 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176194419 0 :GregorR-Foo!n=gregor@dsl093-174-249.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176194443 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been banned O_O < 1176194481 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wot? < 1176194513 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeNode < 1176194541 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugger. why? < 1176194603 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno ... apparently spamming. I looked through all the logs for bots-gone-crazy, and there are none, so what the bork :( < 1176194616 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All my logs suggest that I was not spamming. < 1176194627 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor was a hacked version of me spamming. < 1176194639 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what line did you get put onto? z-line? g-line? < 1176194685 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was from more than a fortnight before you got the ban, someone hates you < 1176194685 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K-line < 1176194690 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you should shoot them < 1176194698 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K-line = how long? < 1176194705 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, it doesn't say. < 1176194747 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k-line==g-line < 1176194762 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever get z-lined before that? < 1176194788 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never been anything-lined. < 1176194796 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1176194823 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be really funny if i got o-lined < 1176194948 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually: z-line = ip-block, g-line = ban-on-login < 1176194955 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about a straight k-line < 1176194969 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bashes his head into the wall. < 1176194974 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have I been K-lined >_< < 1176195045 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who k-lined you? < 1176195067 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think GregorR-Wtf would be more appropriate < 1176195106 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, that's what's so confusing - none of my logs have the actual K-line. < 1176195119 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "disconnection", then upon reconnecting it says I'm K-lined. < 1176195133 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugger < 1176195150 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would advise a raw-log for next time something stupid happens < 1176195169 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would help ... how? < 1176195222 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can catch everything that's catchable < 1176195251 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt highly that the small area of messages that that would catch that I don't currently catch would help. < 1176195275 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could catch an ERROR message < 1176195291 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps: ERROR :You have been K-Lined by renfield < 1176195317 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i picked renfield cos he's the worst ircop on bluehell) < 1176195371 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent an email to staff@... < 1176195386 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The response will probably be: "Idonno, we don't log it. You'll be allowed to connect in seven years." < 1176195396 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1176195398 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should < 1176195412 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise they should jack hyperion up the ass and switch to unreal < 1176195413 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just being pessimistic :P < 1176195453 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1176197704 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-6.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176198870 0 :GregorR!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176199051 0 :Sephh!n=blah@adsl-211-251-45.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176199183 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176199352 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you got it sorted? < 1176201708 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176202800 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go to bed, gnight < 1176202880 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"YAYS! I achieved something cool today!" < 1176202931 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176203090 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176203687 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176204961 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176204986 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176205009 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176205458 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-036-048.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176207219 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1176214119 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176214246 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@tb-reh-1f0cf.adsl.wanadoo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1176217165 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176217631 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-70-5.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176218949 0 :CRathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176220031 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1176220172 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176220198 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176221046 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-70-5.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176222042 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176222077 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-188-014.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176225827 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176225987 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176226923 0 :CRathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176227174 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-55-149.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176227599 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176229279 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176229559 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I asked a staff they said it was probably spamming/client problems < 1176229719 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I also asked a staff (shocker) < 1176229833 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow! < 1176229863 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're one smart guy < 1176229953 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176230047 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owtf my internets < 1176230174 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176230205 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-129.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176230296 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176231631 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176233702 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176233799 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-71.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176233973 0 :atrapado!i=opened@71.Red-81-47-10.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176234918 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176236705 0 :GregorR-Foo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176237203 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1176238248 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176240882 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176241082 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176241191 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Ya here? < 1176241530 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now. < 1176241536 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for long. < 1176241563 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see my ideas for an OO extension to C? < 1176241594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was K-lined for no good reason, so I haven't seen anything in a while (I didn't log my other persona) < 1176241604 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1176241637 0 :Sephh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A usefull OO extention to C? < 1176241640 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've refined my idea. So here it is, it's a minimal extension to C to support OOP using generic functions. < 1176241654 0 :Sephh!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Bigcheesegs < 1176241670 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It adds 4 keywords to the language, ``generic'', ``specific'', ``class'', and ``continues''. < 1176241686 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're familiar with the concept of generic function OOP.... < 1176241702 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will read the log, must leave now. < 1176241707 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``generic'' defines a function generic ( generic void display(a, b); ) < 1176241734 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``specific'' specialized on the generic ( specific void display (int a, char b); specific void display (int a, int b); ) < 1176241759 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``class'' declares a class in struct form ( class Player { int xpos, ypos; } ) < 1176241788 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``continues'' designates that the specialized generic function calls the next-less-specific specialized method for the generic it is assosciated too. < 1176241790 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1176241808 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very simple, and not very hard to implement, if only I knew the GCC parser-foo. < 1176241853 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there a purpose other than just trying to create it? we already have c++ :P < 1176241862 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1176241867 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what you're talking about? < 1176241870 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1176241887 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ follows an incredibly different object model, is very unclean, and favors its own big/bulky style. < 1176241906 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find it that way, I think it's damn sexy. < 1176241945 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may like C++ and its ``Do Everything My Way or NULL way'' philosophy, but this is designed to be a very small extension to C. < 1176241967 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the C++ object model is message passing, so it has to have all this annoying stuff like polymorphism/operator overloading. < 1176241996 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something a C coder can pick up in a few minutes and work with, like everything else in the C language. < 1176242149 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176242203 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176243125 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176244257 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176244343 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176244352 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176244771 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176245396 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176245652 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176245739 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: how do you implement it? < 1176246300 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176247059 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Not all that difficult. < 1176247158 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Classes are just structs with type information. Generic methods are determined and then less-specific behavior is inlined if the function is ``continues'', and these are all kept either in a virtual method table or a tree that matches based on parameter. < 1176247195 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think we need an ``inherits'' keyword too, to subclass. < 1176247228 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subclassing basically copies the fields of the super-class's struct directly into the derived class. < 1176247240 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with a generic call, the compiler looks up the correct method based on the objects' type? < 1176247248 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1176247276 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runtime has to be able to keep type information. < 1176247283 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does? < 1176247289 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually no it doesen't. < 1176247312 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can parse it so that arguments to generics are wrapped in structs that contain type information. < 1176247336 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining a method uses some kind of name mangling, then at compile time method(object) is replaced with _method(object) < 1176247393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always possible to do at compile time < 1176247413 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1176247435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the actual object might be of a subclass. < 1176247475 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter < 1176247505 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you type an object as one of its superclasses, you can only call methods defined in its superclass < 1176247538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but the actual version of the method may be overridden by the subclass. < 1176247632 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176247701 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176247737 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, this is generic functions based. Subclasses don't override methods. If you mean it defines a wholly different specialization, then, so ? < 1176247746 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176247785 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of inheritance then? < 1176247810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the specialization depends on the actual runtime class, not the compile time class. < 1176247892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it requires runtime information to select the right specialization < 1176247913 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176248141 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inheritance only pulls in fields of the parent struct. < 1176248148 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that it does oerjan. < 1176248203 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well there's no point if it requires runtime support < 1176248291 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless we restrict it away from runtime changing classes. < 1176248301 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your classes can't be dynamic. < 1176248316 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean dynamic? < 1176248330 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifying classes during runtime == dynamic. < 1176248359 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point was to have classes be static < 1176248372 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it should be fine still. < 1176248409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute. do you mean that a subclass object cannot be passed as an object of the superclass? < 1176248448 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the point? < 1176248449 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can, but the superclass method will be called < 1176248455 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176248461 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you played with CLOS, oerjan ? < 1176248466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1176248470 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. That's why. < 1176248484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but common lisp is dynamically typed... < 1176248488 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick overview of a generic method system. < 1176248509 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classes only hold slots, basically struct fields. < 1176248536 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic functions are defined that only define the number of arguments (and in this case the return type) of a function. < 1176248590 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After, you define specific implementations of the generic function based on different types. In this case, if you define that specialized function with the keyword ``continues'' it automatically calls the assosciated specialization for the next-less-specific specialization. < 1176248627 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To simplify things, I want no multiple inheritance, because I can see maybe only a few rare cases where multiple inheritance works, and it's cleaner to simulate it with abstract classes. < 1176248633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of this makes perfect sense with dynamical typing, but not with static typing. < 1176248649 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why wouldn't it work with static typing? < 1176248710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would work like haskell typeclasses, but not like an object-oriented system. < 1176248716 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"a tra pa da" < 1176248748 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1176248756 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when using C, 9/10 the only reason you need OOP is to manage state and to abstract away method calls to superclasses. < 1176248762 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This creates that framework with a minimum of overhead and a minimum of language extension. < 1176248794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with dynamical typing, you can pass a subclass object and treating it like an overridden superclass object. < 1176248840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so common lisp _behaves_ as if subclasses can override, although technically they don't. < 1176248892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least that is my guess from your description) < 1176248940 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176248940 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the beauty of the system. < 1176248951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wouldn't work in C < 1176248980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, not without passing around some of the same information at runtime that CL needs. < 1176249014 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The overlap of the generalized-method framework simulates operator overloading and polymorphism. < 1176249014 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While actually abstracting the implementation to make it much more trivial to implement. < 1176249112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :xor < 1176249149 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which things? I'll be wrapping my head around magnetization vectors while y'all talk. < 1176249273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially runtime type information. since this is multiple dispatch, the class struct doesn't contain enough information. < 1176249337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*information = tag < 1176249341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1176249895 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we can wrap the extra info needed, no? < 1176249907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1176249940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a tag for the actual class, somehow, i guess. < 1176250825 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-150-56.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176251137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1176251252 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176251851 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the plan. < 1176251867 0 :xor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's runtime < 1176252077 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt^bomb < 1176252086 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dood=bsmnt^bomb < 1176252088 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not neccessarily. < 1176252088 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1176252094 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's parse time. < 1176252141 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they can easily be hardcoded into the source. < 1176252153 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh by the way, any Pascal users? < 1176252171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the impression Sukoshi hasn't understood anything we were saying < 1176252173 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems unlikely < 1176252182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not presently < 1176252205 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people used pascal. They're all dead now. < 1176252210 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176252218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i am not dead. < 1176252220 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't understand. < 1176252225 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *bang* < 1176252244 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cap guns don't hurt, lament. < 1176252257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think? < 1176252351 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sound-cap guns, I mean. < 1176252370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think? < 1176252383 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brings in the 500W amplifier < 1176252406 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Pascal compared to C, oerjan ? < 1176252442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp is essentially duck typed. objects that implement the same generic function can be mixed and matched. essentially, an object of a subclass can be treated as a member of the superclass, and passed to functions that expect the superclass, while still using the subclass specialization for any calls to the generic function. < 1176252508 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understand what you mean, then no, this will not have that feature. < 1176252526 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methods can *only* be executed linearly up the specific tree. No cast-avoiding. < 1176252559 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/plof/ :-P < 1176252589 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[/shameless plug] < 1176252591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in other words, in your model the class is an attribute of the variable, not of the object. < 1176252609 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1176252618 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept ``class'' is just a container. < 1176252632 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike a struct, it contains some special type information. But that's all. < 1176253503 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176253793 0 :xor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176253907 0 :GregorR_!n=GregorR@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176253908 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176253921 0 :calamari!n=Kid@cb03.cs.arizona.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1176254058 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1176254972 0 :GregorR_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR < 1176255125 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: has anybody said anything about the K-line? < 1176255176 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yeah, I got a response, but the person who responded said that the person who K-lined me wasn't active at the time. < 1176255202 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it for, exactly? < 1176255208 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did EgoBot go insane? < 1176255215 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yeah, I got a response, but the person who responded said that the person who K-lined me wasn't active at the time. < 1176255222 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to change my emphasis a bit? < 1176255233 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yeah, I got a response, but the person who responded said that /the person who K-lined me wasn't active at the time/. < 1176255243 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read: He didn't know why I was K-lined. < 1176255248 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1176255256 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person who K-lined you, you mean? < 1176255269 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't talked to the person who K-lined me. < 1176255293 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know who that person is? < 1176255300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1176255618 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the way you define classes in plof < 1176255665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean prototypes :P < 1176255678 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1176255688 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean objects. :p < 1176255704 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, gregorr is the boss around here OK? < 1176255710 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when talking about plof < 1176255749 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION summons CakeProphet < 1176255751 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: "Prototype" is a term which specifies a class of objects, so my terminology was perfectly accurate :P < 1176255764 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Darn. < 1176255770 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var cow = [ age = 3, speak = { print("Moo"); }, shoot = { printf("MOOOOO! *splats*"); } ]; < 1176255778 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cow.speak(); cow.shoot(); < 1176255787 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, brb < 1176255792 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbq? < 1176255805 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1176255855 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I see. < 1176255882 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var Bessy = new(cow); < 1176255898 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bessy.stfu(roflcopter); < 1176255943 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bessy.age = 5;Bessy.speak = { print("Mooooo!") };Bessy.shoot = { print("I'm a milk cow");return(1); }; < 1176255981 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want to println, and you definitely need to learn the new colon-ish syntax for functions and objects :P < 1176255993 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 : < 1176256019 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colons are nice. < 1176256027 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semicolons are also nice, as are dashes. < 1176256034 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm obviously used to Plof 1. ;) < 1176256039 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dashes are wonderful. Commas are annoying. < 1176256049 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof supports a , operator :P < 1176256160 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it form tuples? < 1176256185 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think a tuple is even a datatype in Plof. < 1176256195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no builtin tuples. I tried to minimize the number of builtin types as much as is possible with a prototype-based object system. < 1176256208 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1176256233 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ',' operator does exactly the same thing as the ';' operator, but at a lower precedence. < 1176256258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :higher, don't you mean? < 1176256302 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget which term is used to mean it falls lower on the tree :P < 1176256334 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176256356 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more useful for separating parameters/arguments :P < 1176256699 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scraps pretty much all plans for his distro, opting to instead make it a Slackware fork. . . < 1176256703 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176256838 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAAAAAAAANSIEEEEEEEEEE < 1176256878 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm redoing the Slackware package manager. . . That enough work for you? < 1176256908 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pffffffffffff ;) < 1176256925 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to see exactly how many branches UnionFS can handle. . . < 1176257106 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176257107 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because my packaging system resembles Slax, I'll try to see what use I can put some of their scripts to. . . < 1176257138 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a seven inch bread < 1176257146 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bow chicka bow wow. < 1176257214 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176257232 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Fine, I must confess. . . < 1176257243 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just using Slax modules, except more. . . Modular. < 1176257248 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:05:21? < 1176257252 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ SLS? < 1176257257 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLS? < 1176257260 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 20:42:43.. < 1176257263 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errm < 1176257271 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot my own package's name X-P < 1176257272 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPS < 1176257279 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLS = Softlanding Linux System X-P < 1176257286 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use that later on. < 1176257307 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one hour minus 37 minutes minus 22 seconds, or 22 minutes and 34 seconds. < 1176257317 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, HI < 1176257318 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that was a 22-minute-and-34-second summons. < 1176257325 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: HELLO < 1176257333 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYTHING FOR EXECUTABLE FORMAT YET. < 1176257336 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the only thoughts < 1176257343 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Would SPS happen to work well with the concept of each package just getting unified with /? < 1176257344 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten are "format version - machine architecture" < 1176257347 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Try ELF. < 1176257352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: When summoning, always remember to sacrifice the chicken. < 1176257357 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out? :) < 1176257363 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Not really, since the whole idea is it's different per user/environment. < 1176257370 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF using a certain interrupt for system calls? < 1176257374 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, right, forgot that. < 1176257375 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Maybe if that was done by a user-configurable FUSE FS. < 1176257400 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the format need our system calls in it? Or can we just use the ones that ELF use and map them to our devices. < 1176257401 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Well, I *could* use the FUSE versions of UnionFS. . . < 1176257416 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Actually, I don't think ELF specifies system calls. < 1176257427 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just specifies the actual *format*. ;) < 1176257431 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yah < 1176257439 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: can I call you Sev since my tab completion isn't working? < 1176257440 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool then. ELF WE SHALL USE < 1176257445 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....sure < 1176257446 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF WE SHALL USE? < 1176257449 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds good. < 1176257454 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And interrupts for system calls? < 1176257457 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure < 1176257461 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh like < 1176257462 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1176257464 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... < 1176257489 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do a system call, put certain stuff in certain registers, then do the instruction "int". < 1176257490 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hmm. I need to see some details on the SPS internals. . . < 1176257494 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... so... is it possible to define a bunch of "hooks" that we can use all throughout the operating system? < 1176257495 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except we need an interrupt number. < 1176257503 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sev: to do whatnow? < 1176257506 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I know static languages are kind of weird with stuff like that... < 1176257518 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: That would be called 'system calls'. < 1176257525 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a list of programs (I'm assuming executables or possibly processes...) to summon up in a certain situation. < 1176257539 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it is? < 1176257544 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs to summon up in a certain situation? < 1176257546 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1176257561 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you mean. . . functions? < 1176257616 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactions with the kernel are pretty much done via system calls. < 1176257621 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "keyboard filter" hook would get spammed when a user types, and each program/process on the hook will be called in a sequential order based on priority - with three things as input: the keyboard being typed on, the original key, and key once modified. < 1176257640 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sev: that would be handled by the keyboard handler process. < 1176257653 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... is there any quick way to add onto that? < 1176257703 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that these two are busy reinventing UNIX poorly. . . < 1176257704 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A process that wants to use the keyboard invokes the keyboard handler service telling it what to do when a key is pressed. < 1176257713 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's us. < 1176257721 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The poor UNIX reinventors. < 1176257763 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing this out of laziness. < 1176257777 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boredom, you mean? < 1176257781 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... okay. < 1176257791 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that too. < 1176257797 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wanted nifty hooks... so he could slap random programs onto basic operations. < 1176257803 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll make me feel proud of myself. < 1176257823 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sev: don't sacrifice simplicity for niftiness. < 1176257851 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> it wouldn't that complicated. I've done something similar on countless other projects... and it works wonderfully. < 1176257853 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: I see that you want a microkernel design. < 1176257855 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Minix. < 1176257886 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....a bit easier in something like Python though.... since it's not an... OS. < 1176257897 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that whole dynamic typing thing is nice. < 1176257949 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not for the kernel, use whatever you want. < 1176257968 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.- thanks.... < 1176257971 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176257983 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can be SO USEFUL! < 1176258055 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Really, what I want in the end is something along the lines of "To install, copy the squashfs image into /pkgs. To uninstall, remove the squashfs image.". < 1176258120 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why we want the kernel to be small. < 1176258144 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, ...one of the few things I like about windows is that I can be completely lazy when it comes to installing new stuff - I just need to get the binary and it'll work almost 100% of the time. < 1176258159 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step one: write the kernel. Step two: write the compiler. Step three: write the programs. < 1176258185 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, getting the binary and it working is naturally an ideal. < 1176258201 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking it shouldn't be hard. < 1176258210 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make sure the programs are compatible with the services. < 1176258218 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience with Linux hasn't been too grand in that aspect... I usually have to compile shit and worry about a lot of dependencies first. < 1176258229 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get ftw. < 1176258290 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sounds like we're making a good UNIX clone. -.- < 1176258297 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or just a bad one. < 1176258320 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if we implement Linux binary support, Linux binaries will be supported. < 1176258325 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...obviously. < 1176258440 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know anything about this part. < 1176258475 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have the kernel support Linux-style system calls as well. < 1176258495 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to actually implement them. < 1176258549 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have cp as the package manager. . . >:D < 1176258585 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: "copy"? < 1176258623 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1176258648 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just copy the package into /pkgs and the filesystem takes care of the rest. < 1176258667 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176258679 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE JOIN OUR OS PROJECT! I mean, hi. < 1176258687 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join the Hurd. < 1176258694 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1176258695 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could use some fresh blood. < 1176258702 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're too cool for that. < 1176258708 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a zen anarchist. < 1176258731 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 0672304759 looks really cool. < 1176258737 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......what < 1176258743 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't want to be part of an arcane sacrificial rite? < 1176258744 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0672304759. < 1176258763 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........what? < 1176258776 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE < 1176258777 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU ALL < 1176258780 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it. < 1176258784 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M FORKING OFF AND MAKING MY OWN DAMN OS < 1176258795 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slams the door on his way out. < 1176258801 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was exactly what we were doing. :-P < 1176258846 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better that I'm doing it twice. < 1176258857 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....the Hurd does sound nifty though... even though I've never seen. < 1176258860 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1176258872 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall implement many a steganographic filesystem in it. < 1176259043 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hurd's got a nifty design, but not much coding impetus. < 1176259098 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> sounds like... a lot of OSes :) < 1176259130 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally can't do a lot of C... which puts me a quite a disadvantage when it comes to making an OS. < 1176259204 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176259241 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-151-28.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176259274 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, we could always use somebody elses microkernel. < 1176259287 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I know -I- don't want to write a microkernel. < 1176259287 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very true. < 1176259309 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably a public domain one, since being public domain is part of Abrasax philosophy... isn't it? < 1176259363 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yes. < 1176259452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176259487 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, a Google search for 'public domain microkernel' turns up nothing obvious. That means we get to claim it. < 1176259647 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. 2. b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. < 1176259661 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. < 1176259706 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those seem to be the big viral clauses of the GPL. < 1176259717 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... if we like... use parts of the program we can take off the licence? < 1176259746 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: No, what the GPL is stating is that you specifically *can't* do that. < 1176259751 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use part of something that's GPL'd in something else, that something else is GPL'd. < 1176259757 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be, rather. < 1176259769 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that, I'm out for bed. Isn't the Google Groups thing wonderful? ;-) < 1176259797 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.... that sucks. < 1176260008 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the whole *point* of the license. . . < 1176260082 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to.... proliferate the licence? < 1176260084 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pragmatic.html For a description of the copyleft mechanism used within the GNU GPL. < 1176260116 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft... that's not much better than a copyright. < 1176260129 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the linked text. < 1176260144 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least realise the purposes behind the GPL before criticising it. < 1176260146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My licence of choice has always been http://allritesreserved.com/ - mainly because it's legally ambiguous < 1176260217 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-copyleft.html is a shorter description. . . < 1176260323 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not public domain though? < 1176260355 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has to be a better way to make something virally free than by simply making everything virally GPL. < 1176260407 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The public domain means, basically, that one could incorporate your work into one's program in any way, shape, or form, without having to even mention your authorship. . . < 1176260455 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL is the model of making something guaranteed free. . . < 1176260480 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...isn't that sort of the definition of "free" though? < 1176260503 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "freedom to enslave" is not generally regarded as a freedom. < 1176260537 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except in the southern US. :p) < 1176260565 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- ultimately I don't care what people want to do with my stuff. You can copy it verbatin - claim it as yours - and make billions of dollars selling it for all I care. < 1176260602 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas I typically view things more along the lines of "Your freedom to swing your fist around ends where my face begins". . . < 1176260713 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way I think a proprietary rip-off of free software could ever become popular is through sheer advertising muscle. < 1176260729 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as everyone is aware of both alternatives... the choice would be obvious. < 1176260745 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to introduce you to a couple of these rip-offs. . . < 1176260752 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Windows and Mac OS X. < 1176260780 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both have copied code from BSD (Windows has a BSD networking stack, among other things, and OS X *is* a BSD). < 1176260840 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- so then I'm correct. < 1176260899 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176260902 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enabling this is fairly devastating to the free software community. . . It allows our competition to take from us without giving a damned thing back, in essence. < 1176260984 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how is that devestating to a community that doesn't make any profit in the first place? It's not like they can totally steal your programs out from under you. < 1176261061 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mere existance of free software is devestating to "the enemy". < 1176261082 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* Um, yeah. . . That's exactly what Microsoft is making a rather signifigant effort to do. < 1176261102 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1176261113 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's devastating for another reason than just profit. . . < 1176261125 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The free software movement strives to encourage the use of free software. < 1176261143 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helping nonfree software is detrimental to this. . . < 1176261162 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also, however, no longer makes your software totally free. < 1176261172 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1176261178 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which right does it remove? < 1176261183 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is't a ripoff of anything... It may have some code from other places but honestly, do you realy think even 10000 lines of code means anything to windows? < 1176261200 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right to have free access to the software.... < 1176261211 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a pointed lack of adjectives there. < 1176261226 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "the right to have free access to this software to do free stuff with it" < 1176261226 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). < 1176261242 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. < 1176261253 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). < 1176261268 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....there's a list of freedoms? < 1176261271 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. < 1176261276 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in the preambl < 1176261277 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html < 1176261289 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the only enumerable quantity is rules. < 1176261307 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's "the freedom"... and then there's a list of rules. You can't list out freedoms. < 1176261307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there seriously a licensing battle going on in here? X_X < 1176261311 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs everyone. < 1176261314 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yes. < 1176261329 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMACS IS SUPERIOR TO VIM < 1176261332 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176261344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use OpenOffice for all my programming. < 1176261347 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, as an Emacsite, I must inform you that Vim usage is not a sin. < 1176261354 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, after all, free software. < 1176261360 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think they both suck < 1176261360 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes gui... < 1176261361 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is, however, a penance) < 1176261384 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooo, whats everyone think about Visual Studio? < 1176261406 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, it's nonfree software. Second, it's a fuckin' horrible development environment. < 1176261416 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third, it doesn't run on my OS of choice. < 1176261420 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring the non-free, why is it horible? < 1176261437 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fourth OH MY GOD ALL OF THESE TOPICS MAKE ME WANT TO KILL EVERYONE < 1176261444 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stab stab stab* < 1176261448 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176261455 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should we talk about then? < 1176261475 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the same reason that having to search through a menu for really, really basic commands is a bad idea for *any* program. . . < 1176261500 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's talk about, ohhh, esoteric programming languages :P < 1176261507 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who does that? :P < 1176261548 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I find them mostly a waist of time that could be spent writing real code... < 1176261551 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A development environment should be about the efficiency of the human side of the equation. . . Which involves terse-seeming commands, simply because they are much faster to input. < 1176261589 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus why either Vim or Emacs actually make for a good development environment: the important things you need are available within a millisecond's notice. < 1176261610 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keybord short cuts... < 1176261626 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yeah. . . < 1176261640 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never need to get your hands off of the keyboard. < 1176261665 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, i've never used vi/m to do real dev work < 1176261668 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can go from entering in a command to find a certain segment of code to typing actual code instantly in either editor. < 1176261673 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I think vim and emacs are a pain in the ass to learn... because there's nothing very visual explaining this arcane spellbook of key combinations. < 1176261673 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only IDEs < 1176261685 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don'y realy know how well they work once you learn how to use them < 1176261689 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure... once you're like... totally used to the program you can start cranking out key combos... but not from the start. < 1176261698 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Well, yeah. . . They've got a steep learning curve. < 1176261716 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: err, try using vi with no prior exp < 1176261730 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...should probably like... have some visual interface. < 1176261738 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost killed my /etc/inittab with it :P < 1176261739 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... "emacs... with a GUI that doesn't blow" < 1176261763 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, the programs that are really quick to use usually have a steep learning curve out of necessity. < 1176261771 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1176261778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but - gvim is a visual interface. < 1176261783 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really... < 1176261804 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily have vim or emacs with a GUI... same exact stuff just with some stuff that makes it easier to learn it. < 1176261806 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must ... kill ... everyone < 1176261842 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ne way, I like code completion... Also like not having to learn the 1000 compiler switches for gcc/++ < 1176261844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if we should ask to get that k-line back, for our own safety. < 1176261860 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEs are great for the beginner, but honestly. . . Do you *want* a beginner as your developer? < 1176261884 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha... I wouldn't mind it. < 1176261892 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to learn somehow. < 1176261901 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDE is't only for beginners < 1176261913 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheesegs: First, it's nowhere near that many. Second, you need to know very few of them as a developer. . . < 1176261919 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses an IDE... simply because it bits the shit out of notepad anyday. < 1176261946 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them are to placate the "OMG -Oinfinity OMGOMG!!!" audience. < 1176261955 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, that reminds me some one on a forum was like, omg im 1337 because I code with notepad! < 1176261967 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a sign of n00bness. < 1176261969 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who waists time... < 1176261975 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing useless crap < 1176261979 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176261993 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at esoteric programming < 1176261996 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176262004 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION codes raw assembly opcodes in notepad. < 1176262016 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non of this fancy mnemonic garbage. < 1176262020 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheesegs: emacs is ideal for the adept; a true magician, deep within their craft. ;) < 1176262038 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same applies to the vast majority of command-line UNIX, to be honest. . . < 1176262062 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, VI-users, Vi is a similar sort of thing. . . < 1176262066 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176262073 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command lines are like... 50 years old? not that old is bad, it's just that new is also not bad :P < 1176262115 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a faster typist than mouser. < 1176262119 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like... GCLIs.... graphical command lines. < 1176262123 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing somthing --------> ???? < 1176262127 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty pictures with full keyboard. < 1176262130 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call me up when you are able to mouse at 70wpm. < 1176262132 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the ocassional mouse. < 1176262137 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, why cant mIRC handle japanese text... < 1176262160 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ぼくは知らない。 < 1176262162 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: don't make mistakes, then you never need to use a mouse :P < 1176262170 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i can see that.... < 1176262192 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheesegs: Yeah, actually, I don't need a mouse. . . < 1176262207 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Pik is just that badass. < 1176262229 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, well I use magnets to set the bits on my harddrive to program :P < 1176262229 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even need a keyboard. < 1176262242 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you too? < 1176262249 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: whats the hiragana for that kanji? < 1176262254 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shi. < 1176262265 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :し, rather. < 1176262286 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web browsing... for example... is generally nicer with a GUI. < 1176262292 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....generally. < 1176262294 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Check out Conkeror. < 1176262301 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, so all i know is you said "boku wa shichinai" < 1176262303 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1176262319 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq, Conkeror? I think I've used it... but it kinda sucked. < 1176262324 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ら != ち < 1176262336 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ? < 1176262345 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ra != chi < 1176262353 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1176262354 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1176262356 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: It's an Emacs-style interface to Firefox. < 1176262363 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yep < 1176262378 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Konkeror a firefox rename? < 1176262379 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox however... does not suck to me. and thus I think this has taught me a lesson. < 1176262382 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheesegs: No. < 1176262388 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Emacs. . . < 1176262388 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1176262403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Plof < 1176262403 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konkeror is the KDE web browser. < 1176262411 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to write Plofmacs :P < 1176262415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror < 1176262415 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its like... KDEs file/directory/web browser. < 1176262431 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私もプロフが大好きです。 < 1176262436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror is to KDE what IE is to Windows < 1176262437 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, so did you say "I am strange" < 1176262437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1176262448 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. . . No. < 1176262453 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176262454 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know is what I said. < 1176262460 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176262486 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt that "wakarimasen" < 1176262488 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somthing like that < 1176262498 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From "知る", to know. . . < 1176262521 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And conjugated into plain negative form. . . < 1176262526 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1176262529 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has always wanted to make his own GUI toolkit. < 1176262534 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to un nub his jap :P < 1176262543 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheesegs: That's formal negative of "わかる", to understand. < 1176262543 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: why? < 1176262550 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think it'd be fun. < 1176262551 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like, a bunch :P < 1176262553 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1176262568 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming for fun is the best kind there is :) < 1176262573 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there being a bunch" has never stopped me from redoing it in the past. :) < 1176262581 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: are you on *nix atm? < 1176262604 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheesegs: Yeah. < 1176262612 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat? or what irc < 1176262627 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my primary project at the moment is a MUD. < 1176262628 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what IME are you using, i'm trying to find one to put on my nix box < 1176262629 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...fun fun fun < 1176262637 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: MUDs are cool < 1176262644 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im working on a lineage II server emulator < 1176262645 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *currently* on gaim. . . I've not gotten ratpoison, irssi, and bitlbee set up since my reinstall. < 1176262652 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my IME is skim. < 1176262659 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lineage II = an MMO < 1176262667 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1176262688 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays roleplay-intensitive MUDs... so by default he considers MMOs a work of the devil. < 1176262696 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176262701 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lineage II = pvp < 1176262710 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smiles politely. < 1176262713 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no roleplay < 1176262716 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your weird < 1176262720 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then somone just kills you < 1176262722 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smiles politelier < 1176262734 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUNDS... UH.... FUN < 1176262738 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YA < 1176262748 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: thanks for the info < 1176262784 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use GNU/Linux as my main desktop, but I'm so used to windows and everything works without any effort :P < 1176262802 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feal like spending the days to learn how to get stuff i want to work < 1176262819 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I couldn't get my network card to work on Kubuntu < 1176262823 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... still on Windows. < 1176262837 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 2 weeks are so are worth it (that 2 weeks includes the majority of the command line learning curve) < 1176262840 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've learned how to do that, but only on a GUI with suse < 1176262844 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I used Windows I found it to be a huge PITA. < 1176262847 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are\ so/or\ so/ < 1176262851 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bloated beyond belief. < 1176262852 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed, Gregor. . . < 1176262857 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloated... < 1176262860 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true dat < 1176262862 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a surprising number of commands... and coming from MUDs it's really not alien feeling too me. :) < 1176262880 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Vista is a terrible (both in quality and ethics) ripoff of OS X. < 1176262882 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current extremely fancy KDE setup isn't using much RAM in terms of Window's normal usage. < 1176262893 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 5 pcs in my room atm, 3 running windows, 1 running openSUSE and one installing fedora < 1176262909 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ya, i refuse to get vista < 1176262912 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeking DRM :P < 1176262914 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . I stand corrected. < 1176262931 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My 40-or-so tabbed Firefox session is using most of my gig of RAM. XD < 1176262937 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176262941 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh < 1176262941 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiiiit... < 1176262944 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Firefox does that :P < 1176262951 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most tabes i've had before i restart ff is like 10... < 1176262959 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's using 300mb < 1176262967 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs* < 1176262979 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well; at least everything else is really rather light, allowing Firefox to take all it wants. < 1176263006 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't even notice until I looked at my RAM usage. < 1176263016 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's cool that you can start up linux in command like, run a ps and only 2 processes are running < 1176263020 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash and ps :P < 1176263033 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps only lists the processes in your current session. < 1176263037 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try ps -ae. < 1176263038 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176263041 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1176263048 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell. . . < 1176263053 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try "ps -ae | less". < 1176263065 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers that it was 85 degress in his room and his nix pc over heated < 1176263088 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs his AMD system. . . < 1176263091 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, i got to open up that pc before i fry another pcu < 1176263097 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing runs at, like, room temperature. < 1176263098 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: the last one shoud be "less" < 1176263100 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, that things running a celeron :( < 1176263117 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: What? less != less? < 1176263126 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less == less < 1176263158 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless less is volitile and you're doing multi threading w/o sync :P < 1176263168 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1176263178 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE multi threading < 1176263194 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes server sofware so much simpler, and more concurrent < 1176263205 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declare it as volatile, and I think GCC would warn you about that. . . (IIRC). < 1176263222 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can gcc detect race conditions? < 1176263249 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. . . But it warns about what things it can detect. < 1176263268 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, btw, any sugestions for a good code profiler? < 1176263268 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't do threads in GCC, so this is coming from the GCC docs, not from personal experience) < 1176263294 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find that 20% of code thats running 80% of the time :P < 1176263302 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcov and gprof? < 1176263312 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never heard of them < 1176263316 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks wikipedia < 1176263329 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the GCC documentation (under Gcov) for details on how to use it. . . < 1176263372 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the only thing VS doesn't have... < 1176263389 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do code profiling, but it wont show you the results ;/ < 1176263439 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then. . . What the hell is the *use*? < 1176263450 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link time code generation < 1176263461 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moves commenly called functions close to each other < 1176263469 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does more aggressive inlining where needed < 1176263500 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. . . That's really a useless feature compared to "getting the coder to simplify sqrt(abs(x^2))". :p < 1176263587 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It already does that :P < 1176263608 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the compiler cant tell how many times you're going to call func() and from where < 1176263630 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to find an example of something that the coder would need to do to optimize things. . . < 1176263647 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176263654 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION din't look at what you wrote :P < 1176263688 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(abs(x^2)) = x, now i see :P < 1176263699 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1176263713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YM = abs(x) < 1176263789 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nice chat, I'm going to sleep now, so later. < 1176263841 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176263989 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night Bigcheesegs < 1176266179 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1176266416 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176266492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176266965 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1176266977 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy, folks < 1176266992 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anything interesting been going on recently? < 1176267421 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof2 8-D < 1176267477 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof2 8=D < 1176267523 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG HE HAS TWO NOSERS < 1176267536 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1176267543 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1176267935 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using vi is not a sin, but a penence < 1176267995 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you know what 8=D is? < 1176268052 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than a two-noser? < 1176268219 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176268857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With floats at higher numbers, are there certain numbers that it can store, and nearby numbers that it cannot? Is that how precision works? < 1176268863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. something similar to being able to hold, say, 1e20 but not 1e20+1 ? < 1176268900 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1176268973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"something like that"? < 1176269219 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176270122 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1176270175 0 :bsmnt_bot!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1176270238 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176270292 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1176271746 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Precisely like that, actually. < 1176271767 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It effectively stores it in (x)e(y) format. < 1176271928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION predicts the existence of "atmospheric shells" in SL < 1176271956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for now, g'night < 1176271996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176272664 0 :thematrixeatsyou!n=Greasemo@222-154-133-217.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176272724 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176272742 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1176272905 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176274481 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176275521 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176278168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176278399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176278400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176281389 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176282064 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't make your mind up? < 1176283596 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176287746 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go, gnight (galitteration!) < 1176287925 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ROFL = Really old frikkin laugh-message" < 1176289738 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176293742 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Darned Debain upgrade did funny things to screen so letters keep going missing in my old screen sessions." < 1176298503 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@bylands.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176298532 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176298923 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176299090 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@bylands.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176300451 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.198.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176301179 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176301408 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176301499 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1176301511 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176303808 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :n[a]zgjunk < 1176305874 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-178-004.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176305983 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176305995 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176307892 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-178-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176308144 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176308146 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176309126 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176310601 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176310767 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176312256 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-71.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176312549 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-191.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176313008 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176314118 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176314602 0 :Bigcheesegs!n=blah@adsl-218-106-55.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176315091 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176316237 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176318723 0 :atrapado!n=opened@22.Red-81-47-1.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176319092 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"tele fo no" < 1176319378 0 :atrapado!n=opened@193.Red-81-47-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176325909 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176326347 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176327089 0 :n[a]zgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1176327119 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176327243 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176327579 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-87.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176327995 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176328027 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176330275 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176330295 0 :IslandHopper973!n=chatzill@host81-158-250-45.range81-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176330621 0 :IslandHopper973!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :UnrelatedToQaz < 1176330744 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176330762 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-158-250-45.range81-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176330831 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176331778 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176332637 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176334586 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176335292 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176335726 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176336082 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176337577 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176338410 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"isoGames - The New Leader In Online Spectator Sports - /server -m irc.isoGames.com" < 1176338720 0 :Bigcheesegs!n=blah@adsl-218-106-55.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176339270 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176339487 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176345682 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176346284 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176350607 0 :Rugxulo!n=icechat5@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176350698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176350998 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176355415 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176357026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176357150 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176363354 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176364666 0 :maverickbna!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176364799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176364800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176365242 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176365246 0 :maverickbna!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ShadowHntr < 1176367277 0 :jix!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176367974 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=Greasemo@222-154-133-217.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176368655 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up for acrowars? http://www.acrowars.com/uncyclopedia it's heaps of fun, just set up a disposable acct and you're good to go < 1176372568 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176373365 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1176373528 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176375025 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep, gnight < 1176375102 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ISRAWY = In Soviet Russia, acronym writes YOU!!" < 1176376569 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176377493 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176379381 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176383486 0 :Sephh!n=blah@adsl-152-31-191.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176384199 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176384264 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176384302 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176387389 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176387408 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof that I need a life: < 1176387409 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/Classics.exe < 1176387419 0 :Bigcheesegs!n=blah@adsl-19-125-120.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176387427 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hard-coded Mario and Zelda themes < 1176387430 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using Windows Beep() < 1176387433 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176387449 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will post source if desired < 1176387464 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes Bigcheesegs < 1176387467 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello :) < 1176387638 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/QQKEbi39.html < 1176387639 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source < 1176387642 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1191 lines! < 1176387676 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176387843 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone cares :P < 1176387909 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176388036 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello helios24 < 1176388051 0 :Sephh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176388076 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1176388083 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess no one likes mario and zelda any more :( < 1176388098 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shucks. < 1176388830 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176388924 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION compiles < 1176388944 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should get started on actually making his distro. . . < 1176389013 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, i have to go, ill look at it later :P < 1176390424 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176390428 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176391222 0 :helios24_!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176391286 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176391302 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176391609 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176391671 0 :helios24_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176391885 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-182-047.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176394197 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1176394335 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-032-075.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176394350 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176394354 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176395190 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176395761 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176399439 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-87.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176400591 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176403634 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176405591 0 :atrapado!i=opened@73.Red-81-47-11.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176409217 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176409248 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176410482 0 :dub_!n=opened@86.Red-81-47-0.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176410592 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176410600 0 :dub_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :atrapado < 1176414018 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-141.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176414764 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176415147 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176417300 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176417993 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176420916 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"toki pona" < 1176422814 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176423041 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176424470 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176425584 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176430626 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176432878 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176437414 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1176437574 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176437582 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1176437585 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://student.hpa.edu/~cmcfarland/Classics.exe < 1176437589 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've improved it! < 1176437599 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mario, Zelda, and Fur Elise < 1176437600 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1176437614 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source is almost 2000 lines of code < 1176437775 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/IjMZTq94.html < 1176439103 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176439390 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176443782 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176443810 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176444257 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176444854 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-145-150.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176445022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176446871 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would anyone here know much about SKI combinator calculus? < 1176446888 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know bsmnt does < 1176447097 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I, :( < 1176447107 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know, however, that I got my music program working :D < 1176447127 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zelda, Mario, and Fur Elise FTW < 1176447302 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- does not care about your Windows-only program. < 1176447322 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if anyone knows how I can make a portable beep, I will :P < 1176447389 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, i made one a few days ago < 1176447405 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://greasemonkey.nonlogic.org/lsq101002.tar.gz < 1176447414 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ plays *.VGM files < 1176447437 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses the computer internal speaker? < 1176447449 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it dumps them < 1176447453 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into a file < 1176447457 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what .VGM is :P < 1176447652 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bummer < 1176447663 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, it comes with an example < 1176448748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i should make my musical brainfuck possibility of making tones... since it now only handles raw data... maybe ':' & ';' < 1176448753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schoolz ---------> < 1176448790 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1176448880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually.... i made ',' a stream of sin wave... but it turned out it's not that easy to slow a wave down in brainfuck :P < 1176448900 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176448949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were 3 streams, square, saw and sine, which one you use depending on the value in current cell when calling ',' < 1176448966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... school, REALLY -----> < 1176449169 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye? < 1176451199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176451200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176451201 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ROFL < 1176451201 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flightpad.net/images/firefoxfoxfoxfox.jpg < 1176451738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176458029 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176462381 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go sleep now, gnight < 1176462489 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnight" < 1176466349 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176469022 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176471392 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176471878 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176474650 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176474741 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176479130 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176479537 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-210.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176483418 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-13-86.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176488403 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176489461 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176491444 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176491974 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176493312 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask again: Anyone use Pascal here? < 1176493594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, I think you've confused #esoteric with #1978 < 1176494263 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, people talk about Forth here too. < 1176494274 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus lots of Roguelikes are still written in Pascal. < 1176494377 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is pretty esoteric. < 1176494632 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spent years with an obscure version of Pascal... but many moons have passed < 1176495398 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176495483 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176496697 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I have a pascal book, maybe it knows? :) < 1176496735 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Advanced Turbo Pascal Version 4" < 1176496782 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep it around because it shows how to implement a recursive descent parser < 1176496831 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, it used to be that advanced actually meant advanced :) < 1176497036 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176497799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a "recursive descent parser"? < 1176498077 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176498833 0 :crathman_!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176498912 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-049-192.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176498927 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1176499156 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is hella werid < 1176499166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1176499423 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176499785 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176499813 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one who thinks it isn't? :P < 1176499872 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you factor correctly, it shouldn't be that bad. < 1176500198 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check out the PDF document "Programming Forth". < 1176500412 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that Forth encourages a lot more factoring than C/Pascal does. < 1176502724 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1176502817 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176503534 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176503860 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176503905 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1176505033 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176505157 0 :iano!i=me@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176505251 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176505296 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176506364 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176506680 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176506964 0 :iano!i=me@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176507550 0 :iano_!i=me@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176507993 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176508213 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"isoGames - The New Leader In Online Spectator Sports - /server -m irc.isoGames.com" < 1176508731 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, would you happen to know which Slackware package contains chroot (and where chroot is?) < 1176508956 0 :crathman_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176509051 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@adsl-76-201-191-162.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176509194 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind, found it. < 1176509200 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package browser; imagine that. < 1176509991 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176510780 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is *attempting* to get his distro up and running < 1176511054 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And failing horribly. < 1176511687 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176512110 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176512316 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a farming roguelike. < 1176512330 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After spending 3 hours reading about magnetism/electricity.) < 1176512436 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the hero is a farmer < 1176512437 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176512471 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a roguelike with inspiration from Harvest Moon. < 1176512471 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concept: < 1176512471 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to farm magnetic carrots? < 1176512595 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Glorious Empire is waging war against the Evil Enemies of the Empire. The Empire has given a call to all of its citizens to help with the Empire's Exploits. Rather than taking to the frontlines, you have decided to help your Empire in the other way -- to farm. Each and every crop you harvest is distributed out to the Citizens and the Empire compensates your efforts. To aid your effort, the Empire allows you to purchase Indentured < 1176512595 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Servants (prisoners of the Glorious War) to help out on the farm. In order to prove your worth to the Empire, you must successfully set up your own empire of farms. < 1176512623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not sound like a roguelike. < 1176512632 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does now, bub. < 1176512732 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To further aid your exploits, Magical Engineers constantly perform research on technological Improvements. Of course, Research is accelerated with Donations. Use your money effectively to purchase Indentured Servants and place skillful Donations for the benefit of the Empire. < 1176512762 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very much like an economic simulation and not at all like a roguelike. < 1176512776 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's being done in curses. < 1176512780 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1176512786 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1176512793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the interface < 1176512797 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything can be done in curses < 1176512801 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that you actually interactively farm. < 1176512818 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Until you hire the indentured servants you need, of course.) < 1176512834 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then you purchase another farm off struggling farmers.) < 1176513107 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH OH OH < 1176513110 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll help. < 1176513121 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you could make it online... and turn it into a MUD. :) < 1176513148 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION already has a big partially complete python library for MUDs < 1176513286 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're abandoning Abrasax, aren't we? < 1176513288 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Count me in! < 1176513346 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...eh, it's possible/likely. < 1176513760 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176513913 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, eh.. but I'll try not to be cynical. < 1176513926 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1176513984 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we'll be able to do Abrasax as long as we're willing to put in some work. < 1176514010 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all else fails... we can go with the power of numbers and join up with an existing OS project that might be having problems. < 1176514012 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed we will. < 1176514146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking for a public domain microkernel < 1176514269 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not MUD. < 1176514456 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we need to make our own kernel... < 1176514463 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say go with the minimalist of the minimal. < 1176514483 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a flimsy layer over the hardware... < 1176514506 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176514599 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then have an "upper kernel" handle permissions and such? < 1176514619 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically just like.... talking to the MMU and dispatching interupts... and maybe some other stuff. < 1176514637 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, eh... not necessarily. But yeah... basically just breaking down all the functions into different parts. < 1176514692 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dividing into "lower kernel" and "upper kernel" doesn't really seem a bad idea. < 1176514734 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the lower kernel handle all the dirty work, and then the upper kernel can do it "cleanly" by calling the lower one? < 1176514775 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was jsut thinking like.... a really small kernel... and then.... everything else in userville < 1176514848 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the lower kernel's division of privileges goes no farther than "this program can do anything at all" vs. "this program can only talk to other programs"? < 1176515001 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1176515037 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... the security doesn't come till later. < 1176515165 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the lower kernel doesn't have division of privileges at all? < 1176515208 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can eat banannas? < 1176515211 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, about Pascal. < 1176515285 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... it basically sends interupts off to other places... and manages memory. Privledges wouldn't even make sense there. < 1176515299 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sends interrupts off to other places and manages memory... < 1176515321 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a library containing the OS's entry point? < 1176515331 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make a Forth OS? < 1176515345 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-interactive programming is for nubs. < 1176515410 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's interactive programming? < 1176515424 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... the kernel. It just handles the most basic hardware stuff and delegates it to other software. < 1176515430 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one huge... callback-thingy. < 1176515502 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Callback-thingy? < 1176515520 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the most basic function of the operating system... to assign crap as callbacks. All other functionality emerges from that. < 1176515541 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it provides some "system calls"? < 1176515651 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you dismiss it to non-interactive just like that? < 1176515654 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fiends. < 1176515663 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactive programming, like a REPL. < 1176515712 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no... not system calls... those aren't callbacks - they're simply subroutines because they're always present. < 1176515727 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uggh, are you listening to me, you stupid piece of cake? :P < 1176515745 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do anything with system calls if there's nothing around to call them. You can't create anything to call systems calls without having an input device < 1176515758 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can. < 1176515763 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, THERE WILL BE NO INTERACTIVE. OUR OPERATING SYSTEM WILL BE LIKE A FRIDGID SEX PARTNER < 1176515771 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION things of a clock to control current. < 1176515874 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably thinking of the wrong side of the sex SevenInchBread. < 1176515999 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: subroutines? < 1176516006 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like a library or module? < 1176516054 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uggh, make it interactive. < 1176516075 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: what do you mean? < 1176516081 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, create a Forth-level interface to interrupts and just start building up the rest in Forth words. < 1176516117 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need to implement a stack, some way to fetch memory, and some way to store words, plus interrupt-based words. < 1176516123 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we want "the rest" to be very modular and easy to do in any programming language. < 1176516144 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any non-REPL language :( < 1176516157 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can compile to Forth words, you know? < 1176516198 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's REPL? < 1176516205 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read-Eval-Print-Loop. < 1176516228 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, system calls are like a library... yes < 1176516276 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amresearch.com/v6/ < 1176516278 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- Read there. < 1176516288 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I just want to kernel to do things like "oh cool... an interrupt! CONTEXT SWITCH POWERS ACTIVATE!" < 1176516308 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilers can compile to Forth words, which are basically supported by a barebones kernel. < 1176516334 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: you seem a little Forth-obsessed lately. < 1176516344 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have closures, whatever they are? < 1176516345 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Well, you seem very non-interactive obsessed. < 1176516371 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I... still don't get what you mean by "interactive". < 1176516381 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Have you never played with a Lisp or a Forth before? < 1176516395 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played with a Lisp or two. < 1176516436 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play with gForth. It's an experience. < 1176516462 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176516465 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a prompt that lets you type in Forth words, which are then just looked up. < 1176516468 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...might want to check Sukoshi's fanatic-o-meter < 1176516489 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, so it's an.... interactive interpreter? < 1176516491 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesen't have to be *Forth*, but you seem to be gearing this for a non-interactive base. < 1176516497 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Yes. Crazy isn't it? < 1176516515 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A barebones microkernel drops you into that. OpenBoot does something similar. < 1176516515 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that was a common thing..... < 1176516519 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, I want to combine Thue with something roughly Forth-like. < 1176516546 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use python's shell interpreter all the time... it's nothing amazing. < 1176516561 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sarcasm. < 1176516573 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commands are taken from the left and executed. Any results are put back on the left. < 1176516578 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus Python's shell interpreter doesen't execute machine code directly. < 1176516592 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other" computation is done with Thue-like replacement rules. < 1176517884 0 :iano_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176517926 0 :iano!i=me@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176521566 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176521731 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176523085 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176524818 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176527350 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176529022 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176529113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176529657 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1176529663 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you run a process in the background again? < 1176529669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& < 1176529671 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... in Linux distros < 1176529676 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... that doesn't seem to be working < 1176529685 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that on all linux distros? < 1176529695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& after the statement < 1176529750 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You said you used Pascal. < 1176529753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it must not read/write the shell std streams < 1176529758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once upon a time yes < 1176529767 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it is better than C? < 1176529772 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sort of curious.) < 1176529945 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uggh. Why doesen't Radio Shack give the Maximum Energy Product (or Magnetic Field) of their magnets? -_-'' < 1176530039 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway to prevent that without... recompiling the program? < 1176530067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you use > and < to redirect I/O. < 1176530075 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, example? < 1176530089 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: ``ls > grep -i hi'' < 1176530091 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errrr < 1176530095 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls | grep -i hi < 1176530111 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....what's the | < 1176530114 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And that's not an example of IO rediirection .... < 1176530118 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-158-199.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176530123 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| is the piping character. < 1176530133 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It pipes stdiout of the first application to stdin of the second. < 1176530144 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... how would I tell the program to redirect output to.... hmmmmm... /dev/null... or just nowhere < 1176530176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, i have little opinion on C/Pascal, they both seem old to me, C's advantage is that it has enormous support and libraries. < 1176530177 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that you use > < 1176530194 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... dev/null > SomeApp? < 1176530199 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr... < 1176530210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SomeApp >/dev/null < 1176530210 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``cat /dev/null | app'' < 1176530224 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> redirects output to an FD. < 1176530232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: ignore Sukoshi :) < 1176530241 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... -_-'' < 1176530282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a shell line, file for stdout. < 1176530306 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend is complaining about the shell window for a server app being unable to close without shutting the whole thing down < 1176530311 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the ampersand isn't working < 1176530322 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to. < 1176530330 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....well it's not < 1176530330 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``xchat &,, < 1176530338 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*``xchat &'' < 1176530431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, &>file takes both stdout and stderr, at least in bash < 1176530441 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the same in ZSH. < 1176530479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, the redirection may not be necessary for X commands. < 1176530491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they rarely write to the terminal, I think. < 1176530518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot check as i am on windows these days. < 1176530524 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do sometimes. < 1176530528 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O_O < 1176530540 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :人殺し!!!! < 1176530540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, errors i guess. < 1176530565 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants the shell window to go away without the MUD crashing < 1176530567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for ssh'ing to my old unix account. < 1176530572 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, like Firefox tells me (in Japanese, because I use that locale so my Japanese fonts are nice) that it can't find the 'hicolor' font every so often. < 1176530596 0 :Bigcheese!n=blah@adsl-152-212-115.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176530652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see. < 1176530676 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell him to write a mini-app that creates a little GUI window that forks the input to a shell. < 1176530679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think something more than background might be needed for that. < 1176530687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory is hazy. < 1176530694 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What WM does he use? < 1176530741 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WM? < 1176530841 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window Manager .... < 1176530847 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't know. < 1176530932 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1176530947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... try the daemon command. < 1176530961 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... What command is that oerjan ? < 1176530975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it was a function < 1176530987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes skipped that part < 1176531042 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm? < 1176531093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, have you tried "command &>/dev/null .> those all sound very... out of the way. < 1176531395 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disown < 1176531401 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there just a way to make it work with &? < 1176531405 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I get a green fez? < 1176531410 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nohup < 1176531432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nohup. < 1176531452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's it. < 1176531519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, disown too. < 1176531957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: maybe you could recolor your red fez picture to test... < 1176531982 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about semi-purple fez? < 1176532137 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's fez? < 1176532210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/hats/RedFez-med.jpg < 1176532308 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My red fez picture is a uniquely bad picture of me XP < 1176532309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's GregorR unless he's fooling us. :) < 1176532401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not only do you need to recolor it, you also need to graft it onto another picture of you :) < 1176532443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_might_ be simpler to get a physical sample, then. < 1176532509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, a new picture of the red one seems in order. < 1176532625 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I ordered it. < 1176532641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll take a picture of me in my new green fez and then recolor that X-P < 1176532681 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also ordered a tricorn. < 1176532717 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176532837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mein Hut, es hat drei Ecken Drei Ecken hat mein Hut... < 1176532898 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have that saying, but in English. < 1176532906 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, saying == song lyric IIRC < 1176532915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in norwegian, but I think the German is original. < 1176533002 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is "drei" pronounced? < 1176533007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat disturbing that the google hits all spell it differently... < 1176533012 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176533029 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: dry < 1176533038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1176533095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless austrian, the y should be shifted somewhat towards a < 1176533369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the rules for pronouncing ie and ei in English and German are approximately opposite of each other. < 1176533457 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noyce :-P < 1176533468 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can thank the Great Vowel Shift for that (probably) < 1176533509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should think so. < 1176534028 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should all speak the same language < 1176534033 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then build a tower to heaven < 1176534148 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THAT LANGUAGE SHOULD BE ENGLISH < 1176534158 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF ENGLISH WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR TEXAS < 1176534178 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is the language of god, because it's what the bible is written in < 1176534186 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egg-zactly. < 1176534190 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-P < 1176534293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, the spelling of Hebrew seems to be even worse. < 1176534376 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176535054 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful < 1176535764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read that beginners need to have vowel signs added, and it take years to be able to read anything without them. < 1176535784 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is true; the latter isn't < 1176535793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get used to it very quickly < 1176535829 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with hieroglyphs :P < 1176535902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1176535962 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I find a good skimmer for under $100 X_X < 1176536056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for wikipedia disambiguation. < 1176536065 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176536103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing me to find out what "skimmer" may mean < 1176536137 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1176536203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if it had been anyone but you i would _still_ not know :) < 1176536227 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, y'know, I want a sea bird. < 1176536327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah, and you have this nice bridge you have to sell. < 1176536414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are skimmers handmade perhaps? < 1176536423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1176536443 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be a very popular style of hat, but I presume they're no longer made en masse. < 1176536490 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol hat < 1176536516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, if it had been anyone but GregorR... :) < 1176536537 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I saw one at my usual online hat shop while looking for a tricorn. < 1176536543 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it cost $112 O_O < 1176536554 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I googled, and they're all that expensive >_O < 1176537293 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176537599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176537600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176538890 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1176540746 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If soemone wants to buy me rare Earth magnets, they should. < 1176541024 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I was JUST having the compulsion to buy rare Earth magnets for somebody I barely know online! < 1176541554 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for these sorts of moments. < 1176541583 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, people in hormone-filled teenage chatrooms buy clothes for people they barely know. < 1176541607 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can your hormones cloud you to the same level of idiocy? :( < 1176541621 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can't < 1176541631 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no hormones. I am an android. < 1176541946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, at least Sukoshi is not asking for fissible substances :) < 1176542002 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1176542378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, who knows what a denizen of #esoteric could do with a rare Earth magnet. < 1176542523 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was for a generator, but I could think of more sinister things < 1176542524 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1176542573 0 :nooga!i=nooga@xdsl-6552.lubin.dialog.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1176543903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176546409 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-49-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176546718 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-81-169.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176546800 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-92.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176547788 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176547995 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176548392 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight everone < 1176548549 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176548579 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"My bot can beat up your bot. Wait, sorry, *I* can beat up your bot *through* my bot." < 1176548820 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-051-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176548864 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176549090 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-111-160.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176549642 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1176549933 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176552504 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-135.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176553608 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176554273 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-28-122.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176554392 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-99-229.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176555459 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176555575 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176556466 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176556776 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176557199 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-34-242.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176558161 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176559790 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-219.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176559852 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-100-167.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176560976 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176561105 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176561150 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176562082 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176567446 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-89-22.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176573402 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if I want to write a kernel, I'm really going to have to learn more about x86. < 1176575100 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or write for a different architecture. < 1176575148 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that linux-linux-gnu makes for a useful one (Linux runs on it, at least). :p < 1176575593 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176575704 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176575738 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmmm < 1176575772 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: linux-linux-gnu? < 1176575794 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic kernel should basically just... take hardware interupts and place them on a queue that can be accessed by like... a hardware-dispatch process of some kind < 1176575871 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still sounds like a kernel library/module. < 1176575874 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see privledges being arbitrary flags that can be set on processes. < 1176575902 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't do anything on their own... other stuff just needs to check to see if certain flags are set. < 1176576037 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yes: GNU/Linux running on Linux. < 1176576047 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AKA Usermode Linux) < 1176576118 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... the kernel could also handle system call interupts.... it would handle some of the memory allocation calls... but most of the other ones would be delegated to some userland process < 1176576140 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it also handle processes? < 1176576157 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel, I mean? < 1176576175 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processes are basically just bits of code attached to interupts... and since the kernel will be handling interupts... probably. < 1176576180 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least at the most basically level < 1176576193 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bits of code attached to interrupts? < 1176576204 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're subroutines run whenever you get an interrupt? < 1176576220 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't -schedule- the processes or anything... it'll just provide the operations for moving them around in memory. < 1176576245 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- that's what interupts do. They're kind of like exceptions in the programming language universe. < 1176576257 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what does schedule the processes? < 1176576259 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except most of them have nothing to do with errors < 1176576269 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a process. :) < 1176576316 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradoxical, no? But definetely possible. < 1176576358 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles all over SevenInchBread < 1176576385 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the kernel handles process scheduling, memory, and system calls, and then there aren't very many system calls? < 1176576407 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe interrupts too. < 1176576425 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would impossible to do the operating system if the kernel didn't handle interupts. < 1176576449 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're part of the hardware < 1176576453 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some of them) < 1176576506 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the kernel only what it needs to do - which is interupts and memory. < 1176576512 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176576532 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176576532 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders < 1176576555 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it handles interrupts and contains the instructions for a couple system calls? < 1176576569 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the rest is left up to the "upper kernel"? < 1176576574 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... the system calls will be in kernel land. < 1176576581 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yes < 1176576621 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesnt't like the "upper kernel" terminology... but whatever. The "upper kernel" is basically a bunch of processes < 1176576632 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try just 'userspace'. < 1176576645 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what every other microkernel calls it. < 1176576648 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So process scheduling and system calls will be handled by processes... < 1176576664 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: what every other microkernel calls what? < 1176576677 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: The set of processes which support the rest of the system. < 1176576684 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.... system calls are interupts... which go to the kernel... which then triggers some other process < 1176576702 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: hmm... < 1176576714 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be done. < 1176576736 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically what makes a microkernel a microkernel.... it doesn't handle all the system calls < 1176576885 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... once the kernel receives a system call interupt... I think it should delegate to call to a list of programs that have associated themselves with the system call which get executed in some order of priority.... that way you can redefine the system calls any way you want. < 1176576913 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: A microkernel is a kernel design where almost everything is handled by userspace processes. < 1176576919 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1176576988 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, a microkernel *will* handle all the system calls. . . The thing being, they have very, very few system calls (usually just things like exec(char *); and send_message(pid_t);). < 1176576991 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you call a kernel that handles all the system calls but whose system calls are pretty basic? < 1176577003 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a microkernel. < 1176577022 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be the usual form of a microkernel, in fact. < 1176577027 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we design the microkernel... we just need to make it as general as possible. Don't worry about the specifics... the microkernel should be pluggable into any kind of OS design. < 1176577040 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execute process and send message, eh? < 1176577052 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would things like hardware interaction be done? < 1176577070 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interupts < 1176577087 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which get put on like... a "hardware signal" queue or whatever < 1176577095 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends upon the kernel. . . Mach, at least, provides a very, very basic interface to hardware via syscalls. Mach, though, is rather monolithic for a microkernel. . . < 1176577096 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you make sure not every process can interact with all hardware? < 1176577108 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a system call for checking out recent hardware signals < 1176577125 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: GNU Mach? < 1176577140 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: All the Mach variants, including GNU Mach. < 1176577141 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. The Mach microkernel. < 1176577155 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they all come from the same original project) < 1176577185 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GNU* Mach's hardware interface is a subset of the Linux module API. . . < 1176577246 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, don't need to worry about that till other stuff. I don't think the microkernel itself needs to worry about privledges < 1176577272 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does however... need an interface to allow other crap to worry about privledges for it. < 1176577304 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So under the exec and send_message thing, does the kernel handle processes? < 1176577323 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, surely some processes have permission to do things that other processes don't have the permission to do. < 1176577344 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets out his list of system calls < 1176577413 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.... you'll probably have to get used to me not worry about permissions at all.... since I don't really care about them either way. < 1176577419 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worrting < 1176577424 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worrying < 1176577502 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter supervisor mode, switch to other process, end time slice, add permission to process, remove permission from process, check process for permission, invoke service, register service, unregister service, grab service, allocate memory, deallocate memory... < 1176577530 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and create process. < 1176577556 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That and some ways of interacting with process scheduling should do it. < 1176577559 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....probably don't need all of those < 1176577583 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get process permissions, set process permissions instead of those fancy ways of doing things? < 1176577594 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176577601 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd X out the permission stuff, the service stuff, aaaand... the switch-to-other-process... since you don't need it because of interupts < 1176577624 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch-to-other-process can be done with interrupts? < 1176577637 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's -always- how processes are switched < 1176577668 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The process invokes a certain interrupt which switches to the other process without help from the kernel? < 1176577699 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... the kernel handles the interupts. So it's like a system call in certain regards < 1176577727 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is kind of trivial anyways. system calls are interupts too < 1176577758 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if we want to be able to switch to another process manually, what ways are there of doing that besides a system call? < 1176577784 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't know. < 1176577844 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So system calls are needed? < 1176577864 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......of course they are. < 1176577873 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needed for manual process switching, I mean. < 1176577923 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... alloc, deloc, talk, waik, and some sort of check-hardware system call(s) < 1176577929 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wait < 1176577950 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The permission stuff is needed unless you want almost all permission stuff to be handled by another process, which means system calls being handled by another process. < 1176577957 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need enter supervisor mode... I don't think. < 1176577979 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to let processes enter supervisor mode if you provide some other way of accessing hardware. < 1176578004 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong... the kernel handles system calls... however it can still let another process check permissions for it < 1176578025 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that in response to what I just said about hardware? < 1176578039 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Well, no, obviously not. < 1176578040 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. the permission response < 1176578053 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right about the supervisor mode thing... < 1176578057 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel can indeed handle system calls, but it would need another process to do the permission thing. < 1176578076 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can't argue either way about that. < 1176578100 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that you still need some level of permissions in the kernel, even if it's just an omnipotence flag. < 1176578118 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Services are for inter-process communication. How else are you going to do that? < 1176578149 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I guess you could share memory. < 1176578152 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :services are names... set to processes. Not too terribly kernel-required < 1176578183 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is going to handle them? < 1176578192 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...guess. :) < 1176578200 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else will a process send a message to the process that handles them? < 1176578239 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it send a message to the process telling it to send a message to itself? < 1176578308 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lost me. < 1176578314 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else will a process send a message to the process that handles them? < 1176578320 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That handles messages, I mean. < 1176578400 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-cough- well, if you gave processes names.... < 1176578453 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what handles those names? The kernel? < 1176578476 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1176578538 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you think of a way it could be otherwise? < 1176578539 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense to me < 1176578576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that... or you could just have a process that handles "services" < 1176578629 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If names are handled by the kernel, and you let processes have multiple names, and then call the names services... < 1176578663 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scratches "grab service" < 1176578705 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to call anything "sevice"... through sheet pig-headed dislike of the word. < 1176578710 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sheer < 1176578769 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about calling them interfaces, then? < 1176578791 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....reminds me of OO. even worse than service < 1176578794 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1176578799 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "names". < 1176578863 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that's a good idea! < 1176578905 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if we want to sound more intellectual... we can go with "memes" < 1176578923 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would we do that? < 1176578939 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason we'd call it any other name < 1176578942 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders... < 1176578947 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we call them vistas? < 1176578951 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or windows? < 1176578964 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1176578968 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buttons? < 1176578977 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ahem- NAMES IT IS < 1176578977 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling them names sounds fine. < 1176579013 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have we concluded that "invoke name, register name, unregister name" are kernel-worthy? < 1176579050 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about invoke name... isn't that the same as switch-process? < 1176579103 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1176579106 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an idea < 1176579119 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invoke name sends stuff to a process, switch switches to that process so it can handle the stuff. < 1176579124 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's your idea? < 1176579132 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :permissions.... can be a set of programs that must return a success for a certain program. < 1176579139 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "flags" can be a totally different concept. < 1176579153 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a permission becomes a more like a check. < 1176579230 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permissions can be handled by having every process without the "omnipotent" flag invoke a name and switch instead of actually doing the system call. < 1176579280 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... invoke("canRead", 5, some/file) ...which shoots off a series of processes that either exit with success or failure < 1176579308 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these processes could in turn.... do things like invoke("has flag", 5) ...and fail or succeed bassed on that < 1176579314 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shoot off a series of processes when you can just invoke one name? < 1176579328 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One name which handles everything else? < 1176579329 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"canRead" is that one name. < 1176579336 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one ring to rule them all? < 1176579383 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... canRead can be registered to one process... which handles all the other processes... or whatever < 1176579418 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, sounds good. < 1176579421 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah... my basic idea is to have flags... for putting values on processes and files.... but with a "permission check" being an operation that checks a number of registered processes for a success or failure < 1176579444 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could expand or decrease the meaning of certain permission checks < 1176579463 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would this be part of the kernel? < 1176579469 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, sorry, just finding any possible way to add potential play-around-ability. < 1176579497 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really... the only part that's a system call would be the invoke-name part < 1176579506 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, you've nicely reduced the permission system calls to "get omnipotence flag" and "set omnipotence flag". < 1176579527 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> why do we need that again? < 1176579563 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter supervisor mode, create process, switch to other process, end time slice, get omnipotence flag, set omnipotence flag, invoke name, register name, unregister name, allocate memory, deallocate memory, create process? < 1176579575 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: so that we can control the omnipotence flag? < 1176579590 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't we do that like we do the rest of the flags? < 1176579602 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invoke("hasflag", 5, "omnipotence") < 1176579633 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the kernel going to invoke a process in order to determine whether a process is omnipotent? < 1176579644 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds easier to just have a flag for it. < 1176579662 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> makes sense to me. why do we need an omnipotence flag though? < 1176579702 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to make all processes omnipotent? < 1176579712 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....what the hell does that even mean? < 1176579726 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do away with permissions completely and let any process do anything. < 1176579793 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- sounds like we could integrate that into the rest of the permissions stuff.... < 1176579844 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the "big permission handler process" checks for permission and then makes the call, right? < 1176579873 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really... < 1176579874 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we try to integrate that into the rest of the permission stuff, the call that the BPHP makes has to go through the BPHP. < 1176579877 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really? < 1176579884 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying the permissions can be just like servies < 1176579891 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1176579893 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that execute a number of programs... to check for a certain condition. < 1176579901 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this < 1176579917 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invoke("canread", 5, some/file) < 1176579987 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the process says "yes" or "no" instead of making the call itself? < 1176579996 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the canread process executes a number of other programs that have been configured to it... the default one being something like invoke("hasflag", some/file, "readable") < 1176579999 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar. < 1176580007 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... it just returns a success value < 1176580016 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work. < 1176580016 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...most likely as an exit code < 1176580036 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all a permission is... a yes or a no < 1176580066 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the permission allows control of... is entirely dependent on when and where it is being checked < 1176580146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it also gives you the option to make your own permissions... and use them as you please. < 1176580147 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we may not want the process to have to exit every time it has to give a yes/no answer. < 1176580189 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could have an "allow/deny" system call. < 1176580196 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true... I've been thinking of ways to give processes the ability to send replies to specific requests... instead of spitting out its answers to a single queue... < 1176580216 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can just send 0 or 1 back to a request message < 1176580222 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a reply < 1176580286 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, "allow/deny/sdeny", sdeny denying the request but not telling the process that it's been denied. < 1176580305 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I don't see how those fit in as syscalls < 1176580331 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like just having permissions as names < 1176580333 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe we could have an "allow/deny" system call. < 1176580345 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the invoke-name call to ask permissions < 1176580367 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders < 1176580373 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean.. I don't see how allow/deny makes any sense as syscalls < 1176580391 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's true... I've been thinking of ways to give processes the ability to send replies to specific requests... instead of spitting out its answers to a single queue... < 1176580402 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow/deny/sdeny is how you send the reply. < 1176580418 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no... I mean... generic replies... not just allow or deny < 1176580444 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe plain old allow/deny, and make the BPHP tell the process the result of the system call? < 1176580466 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... if A send "ls" to B... then B will receive the message in its message box... and then be able to reply to that message with "hello \n world \n" < 1176580483 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a IPC thing... < 1176580496 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I've been saying. < 1176580528 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reply to a paticular message... < 1176580544 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A makes the system call, B gets it, B allows or denies it, B sends the result back to A. < 1176580565 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also need to be able to set an active/inactive flag on processes to make sure that they don't check the result of a system call before there is a result. < 1176580565 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls isn't a system call though < 1176580592 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what you said related to handling permissions, then? < 1176580608 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can handle that with polling... and a "waitreply" ability (not necessarily a system call... but an option in the IPC api) < 1176580617 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is.. in a way. < 1176580639 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... the reply thing will be used to answer permission requests... but that's not its specific purpose. < 1176580644 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to confuse myeslf. < 1176580686 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "calling" a process is a combination of sending a message and then immediately waiting for its reply. < 1176580708 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's pick up on this later, shall we? < 1176580710 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if the kernel should be responsible for replies though.... < 1176580712 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1176580870 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will get a shower and then be back < 1176581406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called in math when something is part of a group or whatever they're called in math? < 1176581423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like x E R with a cool-looking e & r < 1176581509 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: being an element of a set? < 1176581514 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a member of a set. < 1176581581 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set containment symbol in Unicode is ELEMENT OF, or U+2208.\ < 1176581610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, set < 1176581653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the 'set containment symbol' have a _more official sounding_ name? < 1176581919 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1176581968 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like there's no "more official-sounding" name for the Unicode character INFINITY. < 1176582050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can say INFZORZ < 1176582068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot more official < 1176583183 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it a membership test < 1176583187 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....which sounds official < 1176583202 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, alright... back... and... NEW IDEAS < 1176583208 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1176583227 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I know how we can encapsulate permissions into all the kernel functions < 1176583229 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we still on about microkernel? < 1176583231 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... syscalls < 1176583239 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLZBIG < 1176583244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of INFINITY < 1176583253 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176583283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolzbig is much better that infzorz, i shall use that one from now on < 1176583311 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, see... applications won't be system calls normally... operations like alloc and dealloc can be handled by userspace processes that have special access to the kernel. < 1176583329 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what would that special access consist of? < 1176583331 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System calls? < 1176583333 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like a "givemagichat" syscall... that gives a process access to the basic syscalls. < 1176583385 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have a process called "mm"... that handles memory allocation, and has the magic hat < 1176583396 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can make the alloc and dealloc call. < 1176583410 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also do things like check permissions < 1176583479 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... and for the problem we've been having with our name: Abrasax can be the name of the entire operating system... and Sophia can be the name of the microkernel project. < 1176583534 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as there aren't any interfering trademarks on "Sophia". < 1176583597 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck intellectual property. < 1176583609 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't trademark a fucking NAME... Jesus Christ. < 1176583648 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I have trademarked "Jesus Christ". < 1176583669 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've trademarked "NAME", SevenInchBread ... cease and desist. < 1176583684 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USPTO.gov has 129 trademarks matching "Sophia". < 1176583703 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so fed up with copyright stuff at this point... that he just disregards the cnocept all together. < 1176583752 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple of them are for just "Sophia",. < 1176583802 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ignore copyrights? < 1176583811 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176583811 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: just like most ppl < 1176583824 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLC breaks the DMCA < 1176583828 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the dvd code < 1176583831 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but noone cares < 1176583836 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :civil disobedience is the best way to bring about a change... if I want to get rid of copyright altogether - I stop obeying copyright laws. < 1176583843 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often obey copyright law. < 1176583868 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyyywayyyyy... < 1176583887 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNUHurd is the most compleet microkernel atm right? < 1176583899 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty soon... if everyone stops obeying copyright laws (which is happening more often)... then copyriight won't be around anymore. < 1176583905 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: Mmmmmmm, doubtful ... but maybe. < 1176583911 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is there? < 1176583925 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's quite a few fully complete microkernels out there. < 1176583939 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are any foss? < 1176583943 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a big family of them called L4 < 1176583945 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foss? < 1176583951 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free open source software < 1176583966 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l4 is, thats what GNUHurd is bassed on < 1176583974 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach is open source. < 1176583981 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of them are public domain. < 1176583991 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd-like < 1176583992 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176583992 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, trademark and copyright aren't the same thing, naturally. < 1176583999 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trademark is pretty much a good thing. < 1176584008 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's used for retarted things < 1176584012 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I disregard intellectual property altogether. < 1176584014 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with pattents < 1176584043 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: what do you mean, used for retarded things? < 1176584078 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a trademark on a common word < 1176584100 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...such as Sophia. < 1176584102 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176584105 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, those can be annoying. < 1176584129 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with pattents, just about every thing is pattented atm. < 1176584132 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trademarks are highly annoying < 1176584135 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap like _tabs_ < 1176584135 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1176584139 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the company i'm working for < 1176584145 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents are retarded. They don't encourage competition at all. < 1176584167 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has an online app that we wanted to call "Vista" < 1176584175 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: tabs on computers or actual tabs? < 1176584182 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we were threatened to be sued by... Visa < 1176584189 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabs as in, firefox tabs < 1176584189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had to change the name < 1176584192 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in software < 1176584235 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Trademark 74423619 is on "SOPHIA" as applied to "computers and computer programs", but it's dead. < 1176584239 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmm.... with this layout... we can take names out of the kernel. Names are purely a userspace invention... < 1176584253 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, the "syscalls aren't usually called directly by applications" layout < 1176584291 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make a c++ kernel :P < 1176584307 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a trademark on "SOPHIA" as applied to "computer hardware, in-circuit emulators and computer software relating to microprocessor development systems". < 1176584312 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's number 74148425. < 1176584321 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's live. < 1176584325 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....fuck it. < 1176584425 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got alloc, dealloc, magichat, demagichat, kill, hmmmm.... what else do we need... fork? < 1176584453 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork is stupid :P < 1176584457 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either we use a different name or we risk trademark infringement. < 1176584464 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I don't like the name kill... let's call it zap. It sounds more like wizardy than murder. < 1176584471 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name it < 1176584479 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohnoesitsamicrokernel < 1176584487 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: maybe you could create a list of system calls and exactly what they do and show it to me. < 1176584496 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, if we risk trademark infringement... then I'm fully liable. That sound good to you? < 1176584513 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now. < 1176584544 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial number 73501942 is for "SOPHIA" as applied to "Computer System Analyzers and Peripherals Therefor", and it's dead. < 1176584645 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, the root process.... the one that first has magichat set can be called overmind... at PID 0 < 1176584672 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PID 1 can be Mother... serving a purpose similar to init... as the parent of all top-level processes < 1176584722 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could write a spec for this kernel. < 1176585224 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I've never used memory allocation manually... so I need to read up on it to learn how it's usually done through system call < 1176585225 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1176585337 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-151.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176585495 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmmmm... I wonder how alloc and dealloc should work... I think the mm process could handle a lot of the allocation algorithm... and maybe the kernel could provide the basic "create a block of memory within a certain range of memory addresses" syscall for it < 1176585558 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbrk(2)? < 1176585564 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alloc(pid, size, stataddress) < 1176585597 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the Windowsesque way. < 1176585611 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mm could provide the actual interface that programs would use. < 1176585658 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, Any problems with it? I mean... I don't expect actual application programs to use that... just the mm process. < 1176585676 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any positive or negative opinion on it *shrugs* < 1176585681 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly would work fine. < 1176585692 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc is implemented in the libc using sbrk < 1176585712 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? < 1176585772 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That extends the break. There is a single "line" in the memory space between "allocated" and "unallocated" memory. < 1176585779 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbrk increments that. < 1176585833 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176585933 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I'll leave it up to mm... and just have this one as the most fundamental mechanism. < 1176585942 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably the most basic form of memory allocation I could think of. < 1176586078 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1176586112 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176587990 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmmm.... I'm trying to organize stuff in a way that makes sense... like... < 1176588015 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got "address spaces" and "threads"... as different concepts.... with a process being a combination of the two. < 1176588091 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :threads are sexy < 1176588102 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when a bunch of guys who know nothing about OS design try to design an OS < 1176588134 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something magical? < 1176588170 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something worthy of tears < 1176588179 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both? < 1176588430 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176588513 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176590299 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, hmmm... what kind of operations does Linux allow on threads? < 1176590313 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I've just got addthread(pid, prog, pc) < 1176590460 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthreads < 1176590462 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176590480 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basicly start, stop, eatcheese < 1176590493 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join < 1176590495 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....what's the last one? < 1176590499 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... the last last one < 1176590544 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join gets the return value of a thread and frees it's memory < 1176590547 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stack) < 1176590564 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> hmmm... threads have memory independent of the process? < 1176590571 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought all threads on a process shared the same memory. < 1176590600 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1176590607 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have their own stack tho < 1176590620 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... you mean... "the memory containing information about the thread" < 1176590626 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not... the threads allocated memory right? < 1176590629 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stack < 1176590630 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176590634 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what stack? < 1176590638 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176590641 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1176590652 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you declare an int in a function < 1176590656 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's put on the stack < 1176590669 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so..... the memory? < 1176590672 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it could be in a register, but w/e < 1176590673 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1176590705 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack-based_memory_allocation < 1176590978 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-67-18.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176591449 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176592412 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese, ...hmmm... does the kernel need to deal with the threads stack... or is it something that could be implemented another way? < 1176592495 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176592515 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176592524 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than alocate it < 1176592528 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1176593610 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so you're saying we're probably going to create a terrible operating system? < 1176593643 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1176593652 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe probably? :P < 1176593707 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: do you know anything about operating system design? < 1176593841 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, I will... make some odd half-attempt at paying you to help us out! < 1176594237 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176594912 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176595569 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to make a terrible OS... sounds like fun < 1176595594 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we could make a good nanokernel.... they're much easier to develop. < 1176595727 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make a Multiboot-compliant boot loader that runs on top of GRUB! < 1176595806 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... let's see... < 1176595835 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope__: So, multiboot compliant in both senses? :P < 1176595845 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1176595853 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a lesson could be had from hardware interupts.... you could fill the entire system with a number of asynchronous callback sturcture things.... < 1176595878 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of doing stupid things like.... polling the kernel constantly for hardware signals. < 1176595882 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, can't GRUB run directly from GRUB? < 1176595904 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: poll the kernel for hardware signals. If you didn't get any, forfeit your time slice. < 1176595904 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: system calls < 1176595907 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So GRUB is GRUB-compliant? < 1176595909 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1176595920 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: GRUB has a chainloader feature. < 1176595951 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, ...did you intend for that to sound smart-ass-ish? :P < 1176595952 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176596014 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope__, in my experience... polling never works as good as interrupts and exceptions and the like < 1176596016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: system calls are powered by interupts (at least on x86 linux) < 1176596036 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true. < 1176596040 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, yes I know... but you can plug any number of callbacks onto them. < 1176596048 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking more along the lines of a "hook" < 1176596048 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put the system call number in one of the registers and call int 0x80 < 1176596127 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooking < 1176596164 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooks are probably one of the most awesomel plug-in-new-features things I've ever seen. < 1176596356 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176597024 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176597890 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176597907 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a nice bit of code for you all today < 1176597908 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/j5n3ZG98.html < 1176597910 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in C < 1176597921 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck figuring out what it does (without compiling) < 1176597970 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the _ do? < 1176597979 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In main(t,_,a) < 1176597980 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no fucking idea. < 1176597984 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it compiles < 1176597990 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it runs < 1176597992 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it's argv < 1176597997 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176598190 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran it to see what it does < 1176598201 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't for the life of me figure out how the output came out as it did < 1176598202 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176598488 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176598494 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176598494 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1176598670 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1176598673 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got disconnected there < 1176598680 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :F < 1176598684 0 :F!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1176599053 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oohhh < 1176599055 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it < 1176599063 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first part of it, at least < 1176599250 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good grief < 1176599250 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.< < 1176600614 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, since the filesystem will be versioned... it makes it nearly impossible to lose data due to a faulty operation. < 1176600644 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we taking a break from the kernel stuff? < 1176600657 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, I don't suppose you have a spec for the kernel... < 1176600669 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact... you could probably define macro-like operation scripts... and if any of the smaller parts fail... the filesystem process automatically reverts the operation. < 1176600684 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I did. < 1176600694 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... it wasn't complete... as there was a lot of unanswered things in it. < 1176600696 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I lost it. < 1176600707 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I'll probably never summon the willpower to write another. < 1176601979 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say something about fruits of labor. I dunno what. < 1176602000 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First you decide whether you want to do something, then you act on your decision. < 1176602390 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that I -didn't- want to rewrite that kernel spec... because I'm a lazy bastard... and then acted (gleefully) upon my decision. < 1176604238 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: I know nothing about OSs :P < 1176604351 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, how nice. < 1176604359 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, bsmntbombdood? < 1176604487 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad wrote his own :P < 1176604495 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duno what he started with tho < 1176604517 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, the problem with operating systems, is you have to write 34930493094830984 drivers for it to be usefull < 1176604535 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you only need 3. < 1176604559 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, like 85% of statistics, that number was pulled out of the space between my ears. < 1176604570 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your dad wrote an operating system, eh? < 1176604637 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a funny one-liner or couplet < 1176604689 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for? < 1176604711 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obfuscated program I'm working on < 1176604714 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as the output) < 1176604793 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash.org < 1176604795 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find one :P < 1176606935 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176608992 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-141-207.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176609417 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah ba bah di baaa bah... Bah? < 1176609468 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adena? < 1176609985 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adenosine! < 1176609990 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Triphosphate! < 1176610009 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme an A! Gimma a T! Gimme a P! What's that spell? ATP! < 1176610088 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a P! Gimme an O! Gimme an R! Gimme an N! < 1176610098 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176610103 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I thought you were spelling PORK < 1176610108 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I saw then N < 1176610124 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya... < 1176610126 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants pork < 1176610141 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme an R! Gimme an O! Gimme an F! Gimme an L! < 1176610306 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1176610318 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just an s.t.f.u < 1176610319 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176610340 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme an S! Gimme an T! Gimme an F! Gimme an U! < 1176610365 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese, either that... or you create a wrapper that can interface with the 34930493094830984 drivers that already exist. < 1176610396 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1176610397 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1176610400 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176610401 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176610402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a H! Gimme a E! Gimme a L! Gimme a L! Gimme a O! Gimme a comma! Gimme a space! Gimme a W! Gimme a O! Gimme a R! Gimme a L! Gimme a D! < 1176610406 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mabey < 1176610407 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i duno < 1176610419 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what linux does... for network adapters < 1176610423 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that was almost funny < 1176610427 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be funny < 1176610433 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtful. < 1176610433 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i think it is < 1176610434 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176610442 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I smell an esolang idea. < 1176610446 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176610453 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1176610455 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a branch! < 1176610460 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a loop! < 1176610469 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Branch < 1176610471 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loop < 1176610474 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1176610476 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be < 1176610477 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random < 1176610541 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sense this is #esoteric < 1176610546 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets come up with the syntax < 1176610547 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a Gimme an L when I have no Z in X. < 1176610557 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X!=Z; < 1176610564 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-->F; < 1176610575 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://F==L < 1176610576 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....why not do... < 1176610581 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For characters we can use their Unicode thingies. < 1176610582 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO F!!!! < 1176610619 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER E! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER L! ... < 1176610641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a UNICODE CHARACTER 0133! < 1176610673 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it has to be Gimme a LATIN SMALL LIGATURE IJ! < 1176610701 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1176610706 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like < 1176610726 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a H and put it in var foo! < 1176610727 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176610740 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you people are terrible. < 1176610751 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER R! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER A! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER N! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER A! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER I! Gimme a LATIN SMALL LETTER S! < 1176610784 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Francais < 1176610785 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176610792 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got , yes we do! we've got , how bout you? < 1176610796 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For outputting BugSophia: Gimme a RUNIC LETTER STAN! < 1176610798 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a JAPANESE KANJI ichi. < 1176610808 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: no, Français. < 1176610809 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176610812 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1176610813 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1176610815 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- < 1176610823 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be one thing ichi could be < 1176610829 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176610835 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ...should implement bugSophia < 1176610853 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a JAPANESE KANJI KIN. < 1176610854 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: that's a Unicode character? < 1176610867 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1176610902 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a RUPTURE, SPLIT APART, COLLAPSE! < 1176610911 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(U+5D29) < 1176610921 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1176610924 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1176610925 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1176610930 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's this JAPANESE KANJI ichi look like in UTF-8? < 1176610932 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: what? < 1176610980 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....you know... they don't have to be gimme a somethings < 1176610983 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+all < 1176610988 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im trying to get mIRC to send unicode < 1176610997 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1176610997 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: only the characters. :-) < 1176611001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC can barely /receive/ Unicode :P < 1176611016 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya... < 1176611019 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piss me off < 1176611029 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4E00 < 1176611037 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a ! < 1176611057 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a KOREAN man! < 1176611060 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :どうぞ < 1176611064 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the word) < 1176611064 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1176611064 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1176611071 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? what... :P < 1176611148 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a KOREAN HANGEUL < 1176611161 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.omniglot.com/images/langsamples/smp_hangeul.gif < 1176611165 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a HEBREW LETTER ALEF! Gimme a LOW LINE! Gimme a DIGIT ZERO! < 1176611166 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got , , , < 1176611189 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : don't < 1176611195 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got Spirt! Yes we do! We've got Spirit, how `bout you? : < 1176611207 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....YOU PEOPLE ARE TERRIBLE < 1176611225 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but... something like that < 1176611243 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will we call this esolang? < 1176611247 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheers? < 1176611250 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1176611251 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: The kanji "Ichi" looks something like this (my IME is temporarily borken): - < 1176611251 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1176611256 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU PEOPLE ARE TERRIBLE AT NAMES ALSO < 1176611257 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1176611262 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it pep rally < 1176611267 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are trying to say one < 1176611275 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: Well, yeah. < 1176611276 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1176611292 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :????????? < 1176611295 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1176611303 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quesion marks ftw < 1176611309 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not question marks :P < 1176611316 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it is :P < 1176611316 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's japanese < 1176611321 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see other peoples jap < 1176611322 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq: Unicode calls that thing a . < 1176611323 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you ?? < 1176611324 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Pikhq < 1176611346 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoo. Dawkins. < 1176611351 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1176611352 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two hour video < 1176611372 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: Your IRC client is borken: it doesn't send Unicode at all. < 1176611382 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is mine < 1176611382 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be :P < 1176611385 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly < 1176611389 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've talked to people in Unicode < 1176611394 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt it < 1176611397 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Japanese < 1176611563 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :こにちわ < 1176611565 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1176611568 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work? < 1176611575 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1176611580 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1176611582 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked on my clien < 1176611583 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1176611585 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finaly :P < 1176611601 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a w/ ~, box, ", a~, box, <<, a~, ... etc < 1176611605 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :おめでとう。 < 1176611609 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see that :P < 1176611621 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: Do you happen to *use* Unicode at all? < 1176611642 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me personally? or the software I use? < 1176611655 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it < 1176611657 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on MSN < 1176611663 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine < 1176611666 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176611696 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :こにちわ < 1176611696 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1176611705 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176611715 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, that's こんにちは。 < 1176611739 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1176611758 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stupid < 1176611766 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to set an unreadable font for it to work < 1176611774 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176611779 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? "There's no great leap, really. You can think of chimps as MS-DOS and humans as Windows 2000." < 1176611806 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs_: Inapt comparison. ;) < 1176611819 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps chimps == Windows, humans == anything else? :p < 1176611820 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quoting a dawkins video < 1176611823 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1176611842 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows = works < 1176611881 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, 1 = 2; all mathematicians resign. < 1176611896 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私は学生。 < 1176611901 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think thats right < 1176611905 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can even see it ;/ < 1176611907 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot a verb. < 1176611914 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1176611915 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176611916 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta < 1176611917 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1176611918 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1176611928 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't show up here < 1176611934 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either "です" or "だ". < 1176611945 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私だ学生。 < 1176611963 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im reading http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ < 1176611968 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be rather good < 1176611975 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're saying is roughly equivalent to "I student." < 1176611989 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1176611998 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You actually screwed the second one up even more. < 1176612003 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1176612005 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pwn < 1176612005 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176612006 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"am I student." < 1176612007 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version of Japanese are you using? < 1176612013 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs_? < 1176612013 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176612016 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1176612024 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs_: He must be using /dev/urandom/Japanese. < 1176612032 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiple ways of encoding Japanese :| < 1176612034 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigcheese: Verbs in Japanese go at the *end* of the sentence. < 1176612034 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using nub < 1176612050 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks the japanese kid on his msn < 1176612050 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: He said "watasi da gakusei." < 1176612069 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :da? < 1176612073 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wa/ha < 1176612076 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: Yeah. < 1176612089 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no desu :P < 1176612099 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's there. < 1176612102 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the wrong place. < 1176612106 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176612109 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :da is state of being < 1176612110 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(da is plain form desu, after all) < 1176612118 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :私は学生だ. < 1176612120 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE < 1176612123 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go. < 1176612132 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, while informal, is perfectly correct. < 1176612139 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1176612148 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he meant "Watashi wa gakusei da." < 1176612153 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese cast system is stupid :P < 1176612161 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast? < 1176612162 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he finally got around to saying just that. < 1176612166 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, cast < 1176612177 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of a cast system < 1176612180 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another term maybe < 1176612181 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176612194 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_system < 1176612233 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that kind < 1176612239 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honorifics < 1176612241 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usually "caste" < 1176612246 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1176612254 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant like < 1176612277 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cheese*)&Swiss; < 1176612280 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176612286 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so I was scratching my head there :P < 1176612288 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i was thinking when i wrote it < 1176612327 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1176612335 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everybody < 1176612338 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1176612344 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1176612357 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's going on in #Esoteric this evening? < 1176612373 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about Nihongo, Unicode, and making a cheering esolang < 1176612382 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1176612390 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nihongo? < 1176612390 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I think they were joking about that) < 1176612396 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese < 1176612400 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1176612409 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihon = Japan, go = language < 1176612422 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how that can lead into discussions about Unicode < 1176612434 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was sort of the other way < 1176612442 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheering -> Unicode/Japanese < 1176612444 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1176612458 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1176612458 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: that was no joke < 1176612462 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a syntax still < 1176612464 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're gonna do it? < 1176612477 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mabey, if it's simple < 1176612498 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we have possible branch and print... < 1176612502 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else do we need...? < 1176612504 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops < 1176612508 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the goal to make the source look like cheering? < 1176612517 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1176612558 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need some form of function < 1176612564 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gimme a [single letter variable names] ... What does it spell?" could be some kind of group evaluation < 1176612565 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme an H! Gimme an E! Gimme an L! Gimme an L! Gimme an O! Gimme a SPACE! Gimme a W! Gimme an O! Gimme an R! Gimme an L! Gimme an D! < 1176612588 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flush the buffer? :P < 1176612594 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats too < 1176612596 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uselless < 1176612599 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176612604 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a usefull lang, that looks like that :P < 1176612637 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, first someone list out a bunch of cheers < 1176612642 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the What's that Spell? < 1176612645 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be the Print < 1176612648 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Gimme a/an < 1176612654 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be a way to build strings < 1176612654 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be input! < 1176612672 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't hear you! < 1176612676 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176612685 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a multiple parameter math operation < 1176612697 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme would be like dim in basic < 1176612699 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for vars < 1176612699 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use "I can't hear you!" for inpu < 1176612705 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1176612716 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't hear you" could be used to repeat a block of code, perhaps? < 1176612716 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(telling the user to "Speak up" :P) < 1176612724 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another possibility < 1176612755 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd need to take a parameter of some kind to be a useful (FOR...NEXT) style loop < 1176612773 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T HEAR YOU! AGAIN! AGAIN! AGAIN! < 1176612783 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LOUDER! < 1176612786 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need paramiters < 1176612786 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a repeat isn't very handy unless we can self-modify < 1176612806 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO TO HELL! < 1176612807 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1176612810 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO HOME < 1176612813 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme an INT how do you spell it? i < 1176612826 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1176612827 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1176612829 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1176612876 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be useful < 1176612890 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinner < 1176612896 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1176613009 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now for branches < 1176613131 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IF YOU THINK WE'RE THE BEST, [insert enthusiastic action here]" < 1176613147 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actions could include standing up, clapping, cheering, etc < 1176613166 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you could have "EVERYBODY STANDING UP, [action]" and the like < 1176613205 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1176613208 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! you could also have certain actions be triggered by someone in the "game" "scoring" < 1176613211 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a way to call a function < 1176613236 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think i is 5, *** < 1176613245 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All statments must end with ! < 1176613246 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176613249 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1176613255 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s /:/! < 1176613286 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1176613291 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s /;/! < 1176613380 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only thing i can think of is < 1176613476 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think i is 5, Go and do foo! < 1176613480 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats stupid < 1176613482 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176613539 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cheers start out with an "exposition" of sorts- like "Hey, we're from [insert high school], and we're ready to rock" etc. < 1176613556 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be used for variable declaration and initialization of some kind < 1176613595 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we provide enough control structures, function calls aren't really *necessary* < 1176613603 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are sexy :P < 1176613607 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly you just need looping and jumps < 1176613611 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hard too do in esoteric i guess < 1176613619 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, drop functions < 1176613620 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1176613625 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to* < 1176613646 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric functions are only for when you want to do stuff recursively, which often serves as a replacement for iteration < 1176613811 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flow control-wise, we could get by with just a "repeat block X times" structure and a "start over" command, given a couple flavors of conditional < 1176613958 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you realy need is an if and a jump < 1176613964 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do anything with taht < 1176613965 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1176613998 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, as long as we can jump based on a conditional < 1176614038 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you have an unconditional jump, math operations, variables, and a halt instruction, you can also be TC < 1176614039 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1176614058 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that unconditional jump can just be a while(true) {} loop, even < 1176614075 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, but i dont want this to be harder than it must be :P < 1176614079 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1176614127 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176614157 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176614250 0 :Pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176614510 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail working for anyone else? < 1176614541 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1176614577 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works for me. < 1176614842 0 :Pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1176614907 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1176614932 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess my connection is just flaky then < 1176614979 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176616282 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176616317 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176616492 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176617092 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi? < 1176617114 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176619565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1176619694 0 :NefariousPrior!n=nefariou@cpe-72-185-28-118.tampabay.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176619711 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176619725 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any there any usefull apps made with brainfuck? heh < 1176619773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usefull? < 1176619776 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be new here < 1176619835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define 'useful'. < 1176619854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In *theory* there could be a whole lot of useful ones. < 1176619868 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something other than hello world. < 1176619868 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few things that are equivalent to various commandline utilities < 1176619871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, we've got the Lost Kingdom, some Brainfuck implementations, and a hell of a lot of fun. < 1176619883 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the BF DeCSS implementation? < 1176619890 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1176619893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1176619894 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ought to count as "useful" < 1176619903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has *written* a Brainfuck compiler in Brainfuck. < 1176619905 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye < 1176619911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Fine, I cheated, using BFM. . . < 1176619971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to sleep < 1176619978 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many lines is the BF DeCSS implementation? lol < 1176619989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few. < 1176620000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is implemented very inefficiently, though. . . < 1176620009 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is ... < 1176620050 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF is turing complete, macro systems for BF exist, people have too much free time. These three facts, taken together would tend to indicate that almost *anything* you can do with just stdio and stdout, somebody has coded or will code in BF. < 1176620186 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain there will be an explosion of nontrivial applications in BF once somebody finished a reasonably complete C->BF compiler < 1176620204 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176620233 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just imagine Firefox in BF. < 1176620280 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code would be a BFM < 1176620283 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably look a great deal like Lynx < 1176620285 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Bifg Fucking Mess < 1176620991 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176621065 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, Sukoshi < 1176621077 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heya RodgerTheGreat. < 1176621165 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to (probably) link to a blog post where I spew a lot of kool-aid tonight. < 1176621174 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About what I feel is the future of programming. < 1176621178 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1176621202 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds interesting < 1176621228 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a conclusion I've come to about the direction of programming, and this isn't just a hopeful-programmer type of thing either. < 1176621237 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like thinking magically that Pascal will come back from the grave.) < 1176621243 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1176621254 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I remember someone saying, < 1176621281 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's the hopeful part of me :P < 1176621281 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you asked me what programming would be like 100 years from now, I couldn't tell you what the language would be like < 1176621293 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could tell you what it'd be called- FORTRAN." < 1176621298 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha. < 1176621331 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask me, the future of programming is going to be a language free of the plague of undefined behavior, one way or another < 1176621367 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My essential thrust is that it will be an interactive one (like Forth, Smalltalk, and Lisp). < 1176621380 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I'll be developing the thesis more effectively by giving a whole bunch of modern examples. < 1176621389 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. an interesting approach. < 1176621407 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, Windows is a stepping stone in it :P < 1176621411 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this imply hardware more suited to these languages? < 1176621417 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1176621459 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk and Lisp aren't very efficient on normal computers at a hardware level. FORTH, on the other hand *belongs* on bare metal. < 1176621463 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of on-the-metal implementations today: Forth has ColorForth (which still seems very hobbyist), Lisp has Movitz (which is going somewhere), and Smalltalk has something whose name I forgot (which is the most mature of them all by a long shot). < 1176621480 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is, from what I've read, because the language is based off a VM. < 1176621495 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp isn't, but the designs for the old Symbolics processors still exist so. < 1176621512 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so-called "LISP machines" < 1176621531 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. One guy is writing simulators for it. < 1176621543 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, links for this sort of thing: < 1176621561 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying hardware to run those languages is impossible, but my point is about their performance on commodity hardware: x86 and PPC. < 1176621602 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://common-lisp.net/movies/slime.mov Slime/CL, http://www.simberon.com/smalltalkdemo.avi VW Smalltalk, http://www.lemonodor.com/archives/misc-gems/lispm.mov.gz Lisp Machine movie. < 1176621635 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gut tells me that Smalltalk will be the one used, only because it seems the most mature in almost every arena, even though I'm a Lisper at heart. < 1176621763 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really funny watching the Slime/CL video, because the terminal window looks like one of mine hovering over the browser window < 1176621771 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1176621790 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean, interactive programming is just such a concept. The paper's point is to prove that it's more than just an academic concept. < 1176621880 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sad that the Forth community and Lispers have been unable to get much work done to create a complete solution. < 1176621883 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth especially. < 1176621910 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm. I still see the need for a language to fill C's niche, if not C itself. Languages like this will never be suitable for embedded systems programming, a rising field, and I don't think they'll be very effective for things like writing drivers. < 1176621914 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently Lisp's really been thrumming but Forth really died on every platform but embedded for reasons I can't see other than the lack of a standard library and nobody's motivation to write one. < 1176621924 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda the direction I'm working on < 1176621927 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's true. My paper is meant for the *desktop*. < 1176621967 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well, in that case, aside from the underpinnings written in a language like what I'm developing, an interactive programming language would be highly advantageous < 1176622036 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling pikhq will disagree with some points because I do try and fit closed-source in it too, only because I don't think realistically that everything can be open. (Of course, just about everything the programmer cares about can be open though.) < 1176622081 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather like the discussions we had regarding an esoteric OS- we need a low-level language suited to compilation into machinecode, which is then used to bootstrap a profusion of higher level languages in which useful software is written < 1176622087 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1176622111 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can I say? I love my private property :P < 1176622134 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm a social capitalist. I believe that socialism is the means for a cleaner capitalism.) < 1176622145 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel that anyone should be *obligated* to release the source of something they make. It should remain their choice. < 1176622153 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most definitely. < 1176622198 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to plug in the end, and not because I'm an Apple fan (I don't own any Apple products, in fact), Apple because (and I'll explain why) they're doing the most work to make this vision happen with Google at close second. < 1176622199 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enforced Open-Source is incompatible with *personal* freedom, which is part of my beef with the GPL and its viral propagation tactics < 1176622235 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL is nice, but some of its advocates are a bit on the GPL-way-or-high-way bit. < 1176622245 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally make everything I release available under the WTFPL or retain it as my own property- one or the other. < 1176622279 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say, if you're only going to give source away conditionally, you should ask yourself why you're giving it away in the first place. ;) < 1176622316 0 :NefariousPrior!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176622324 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that it should be a moral obligation for people to release source, but not a physical one. And I can definitely see situations where open source is not profitable. But those situations are a lot rarer than what is considered ``safe'' by today's standards. < 1176622436 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an individual, I freely give away most of my tinkerings. However, as a company, I'd view any GPLed code as a liability- it's just a ticking time-bomb that can take away my ability to control what I make and profit fairly from my own work. < 1176622518 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition, I have some serious doubts as to the reliability of the FSF. < 1176622631 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'know, this lispmachine video reminds me a little bit of Sketchpad. Are you familiar with that system? < 1176622705 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nopes. < 1176622712 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad < 1176622720 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSF was actually very very good, once upon a time. < 1176622748 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a video of sketchpad online- rather long, but an absolutely fascinating piece of history < 1176622751 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays they've sorta gone complacent (and the real source of open reliability has shifted to Ubuntu, which I have a few philosophical problems with), but they were great once upon a time. < 1176622790 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll spend the rest of this hour writing an annoying essay about poetry. < 1176622801 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just see them as untrustworthy, in light of the power they wield via the GPL and its adherents. < 1176622822 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. That is unmistakably true. < 1176622837 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geeks tend to be odd that way. They all seem to unanimously trust Google too. < 1176622844 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heaven forbid if Google turns on the open community. < 1176622877 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually hope the GPLv3 generates a rift in the community- it could help immensely to destabilize an increasingly consolidated open-source community and allow for more variety. < 1176622914 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Google undoubtedly will eventually "eat its parents" in a metaphorical sense- the question is *when*. < 1176622934 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Geeks don't seem to learn from past failures. < 1176622937 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. < 1176622963 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a difference between "obsessing over past failures" and "learning from past failures", eh? :) < 1176622972 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1176623170 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was nice having a chance to talk to you- I think I need to crawl into bed before I pass out. I'll be certain to check out your treatise tomorrow or whenever you provide a link < 1176623177 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tips his hat < 1176623195 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :RodgerTheZzz < 1176623358 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice nickchange :D < 1176623963 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176623999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176624000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176625174 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@adsl-240-203-156.bna.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176626495 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176626524 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176626684 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-249.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176627927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176628683 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176628882 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176628924 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176630693 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176633095 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-95-225.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176633145 0 :puzzlet!i=puzzlet@122.46.198.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176634223 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176634832 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176636246 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg, gnight < 1176636477 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1176636482 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm slow < 1176637285 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176640153 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1176640981 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"じゃな、ブロッグのことを後で話すね。" < 1176641706 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-051-077.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176641978 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176641999 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-051-077.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176643268 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176643302 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176644022 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176644580 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176647908 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176647926 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176648923 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176649765 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176650223 0 :RodgerTheZzz!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :RodgerTheGreat < 1176650232 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'morning, folks < 1176651073 0 :Sephh!n=blah@adsl-152-151-246.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176651167 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like exponentiation by squaring. < 1176651634 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176651771 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: cool < 1176653680 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's useful when dealing in modular arithmetic. < 1176653717 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, DIV and MOD, every coder's greatest friends < 1176653747 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember how I first learned to use MOD- the redcode instruction set < 1176653795 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always preferred the '88 standard to the '97 < 1176654084 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stuff allows a person to calculate Graham's number. < 1176654115 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 87, give or take some multiple of 100. < 1176659389 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1176659392 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176660450 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1176660615 0 :Sephh!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Bigcheesegs < 1176660838 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@24-236-191-30.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176661024 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: so you know its base 10 representation ends in 87 < 1176661089 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its base 2 representation ends in 1! < 1176661106 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its base 5 representation ends in 2! < 1176661111 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence? i think not!!! < 1176661192 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yep. < 1176661606 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there's a way to efficiently calculuate a**(b**n) mod x < 1176661656 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**? < 1176661696 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exponentiation < 1176661716 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176663607 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is. < 1176663640 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you have to find y so a**(b**n) mod x == a**(b**n mod y) mod x < 1176663680 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not hard thing if you know number theory < 1176663763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, you can replace a with (a mod x) of course < 1176663790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (a * b)(mod x) = (a (mod x))(b (mod x)) < 1176663853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a program for that just now, actually, but inserted a=30, b=30, n=80, x=7.... and it crashed, whaddyaknow < 1176663939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokigun: and how do you do that? < 1176663986 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176664966 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176665520 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176665982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176666187 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176666209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176666221 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176667592 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^y mod n = (x mod n)^(y mod n') mod n where n' is the totient of n < 1176667665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure of that? < 1176667672 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1176667706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is false < 1176667732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of the last time i thought about fermat's little theorem < 1176667815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if i could remember the counterexample... < 1176667836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = n' + 1, for a start < 1176667903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and n = p^2, x = p. < 1176667962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because for y > 1, x^y == 0 (mod n) then < 1176668140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is a counterexample for any prime p. < 1176668230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. p^(p*(p-1)+1) mod p^2 = 0, but p^1 mod p^2 = p < 1176668706 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totient as in euler? < 1176668796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed so. but it works regardless - i came up with this when trying to find a totient that gave a^(t+1) mod n = a mod n, and it simply does not exist. < 1176668802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0 that is < 1176668941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, mind you if gcd(x,n) = 1 then it works as ihope said. < 1176668997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that te definition of totient? < 1176669000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1176669012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because n' is the size of the multiplicative group of those < 1176669034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the totient is the number of x such that gcd(x,n) = 1 yes < 1176669062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the order of a group element in a finite group always divides the group size < 1176669066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed, a bit different... i'm a bit off having learned about totient 5 minutes ago < 1176669124 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right! < 1176669130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. a^|G| = 1 for a finite group G) < 1176669157 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles franctic(al)ly < 1176669210 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1176669218 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((not know) i (much (function of totient))) < 1176669226 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1176669235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function-of < 1176669242 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of function totient) < 1176669257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176669263 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, you're sure it doesn't work when the exponent is 1? < 1176669288 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to work just fine there with a modulus of 10. < 1176669303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot make p^k mod p^2 = p with any k > 1. < 1176669309 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^5 = x (mod 10) < 1176669332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, because 10 is a square-free number < 1176669340 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-81-2.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176669350 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for all square-free numbers? < 1176669357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1176669360 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square-free moduli, I should say. < 1176669366 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm lost < 1176669384 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: a square-free number is one that has no square factors except 1, I think. < 1176669389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1176669392 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1176669399 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that has no prime factor twice. < 1176669471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily prove it by proving it for each prime factor < 1176669483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and combining with the chinese remainder theorem < 1176669521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the totient of n has all p-1 as factors < 1176669591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just about what i did find out the last time i thought about fermat's little theorem a few months ago. < 1176670112 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be quite nice if everything to the fourth power ended up having 1 as the last digit. < 1176670134 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally, this doesn't work for things not coprime to 10. < 1176670160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, but you can use it as a test for coprimality < 1176670184 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, everything does come close. < 1176670186 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iterated logarithm is an interesting function < 1176670211 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even numbers that don't end in 0 to the fourth power seem to all end in 6. < 1176670215 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log*(2n) = 1+log*(n) < 1176670216 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtract 5 and you get 1. < 1176670237 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean log*(n**2) = 1+log*(n) < 1176670247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that follows because they must be right mod 5 < 1176670248 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it ends in 5, the result is also going to end in 5: subtract 2 twice and you get 1. < 1176670408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 1 modulo each prime that isn't a factor and 0 modulo the rest. < 1176670434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is enough to find it if you know which primes are factors < 1176670454 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176670467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again, by the chinese remainder theorem) < 1176670477 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can this be turned into a factoring algorithm? < 1176670558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1176670764 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I can't think of what to word this... < 1176670826 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is proposing an addition for Python 3 that combines some stuff from interfaces as well as automatic type conversion stuff < 1176670886 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you call something that can convert certain objects to a certain quality... or just match a type of quality. < 1176670911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is proposing that GNU adopt a different kernel for the GNU system < 1176670930 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Linux? < 1176670937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one example. . . < 1176670945 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like herd? < 1176670971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I *think* would be a deciding factor in kernel choice would be FUSE support. . . ATM, most of the cool stuff in Hurd could be implemented around FUSE. < 1176670979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That's the current one, and it's spelt HURD. < 1176670988 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1176671011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that limits the kernel choices to Linux, kFreeBSD, and kNetBSD. < 1176671020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . And HURD. :p < 1176671038 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with hurd? < 1176671076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It currently has the driver support of a braindead Linux 2.0 system with the speed of an i386 running Windows Vista. < 1176671098 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176671125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its politics involve less efficiency than Congress. < 1176671191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best feature of the HURD I could probably write in FUSE in a week or less. . . < 1176671216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StowFS. Pretty much UnionFS + pkginstall on crack. < 1176671237 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it's illegal in most places < 1176671247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, what? < 1176671254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. .. Oh. XD < 1176671318 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HURD has politics? < 1176671348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1176671374 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it elect a president every four time slices? < 1176671396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're too busy arguing. < 1176671398 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a computational system based on politics! < 1176671427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea for my proposition is to go straight to rms, and override said politics. ;) < 1176671473 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computational systems based on capitalism are better! < 1176671525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Let Microsoft compute it all. < 1176671573 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we have Microsoft compute at all, they're charge us lots of money. < 1176671608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're the only computing entity. < 1176671611 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we split it between 30 companies, chances are they'll all charge fair prices. < 1176671629 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're the only computing entity, then theoretically, anyone who makes another will become rich. < 1176671661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if they're the only people who know math? < 1176671680 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then anyone who learns will become rich. < 1176671749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should MS want to keep their monopoly, no, that person won't. < 1176671845 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1176671851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... i think if k is the highest power of any prime factor of n, then x^(y+k) mod n = x^(y mod tot(n) + k) mod n. < 1176671899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Get The Facts: The *Truth* About Mathix and Their Bad Math" < 1176671916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after k only parts relatively prime to n will change < 1176671919 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft will say that the learner does math badly? < 1176671943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the business world listens. < 1176671970 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Get The Facts: The *Truth* About Microsoft and Their Crazy Rumors" < 1176672043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Read "The Feeling of Power" (short story by Asimov). . . Think about what that world would be like if it were run by Microsoft. < 1176672047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come back, and discuss. < 1176672246 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176672946 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1176673358 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please output a prime with 2096 binary digits in decimal < 1176673381 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176673460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Error: programmer doesn't want to.] < 1176673475 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, interpreter doesn't want to < 1176673479 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1176673485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1176673487 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats why i first joined this chan :P < 1176673494 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw the IRP or w/e its called < 1176673562 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the story pikhq linked to is actually *about* IRP in one sense < 1176673586 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somone linked? < 1176673621 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176673649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't someone here have mathematica? i'm sure it must have a large prime function. < 1176673668 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://downlode.org/etext/power.html < 1176673674 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have mathematica < 1176673676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's not the calculation that is the problem here :) < 1176673704 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just look up primes on a prime table < 1176673709 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I don't know how to use it to generate arbitrary primes without programming a sieve or something < 1176673709 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are sites for that. < 1176673756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: just pick a few random numbers of the right size. < 1176673764 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: random number, set first and last bits, while not prime, add 2 < 1176673768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe a few thousand. < 1176673784 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use something like miller-rabin for testing primality < 1176673805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm definite mathematica has an isprime function or something. < 1176673815 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1176673838 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone wants to write a function for mathematica based on the manuals, I'd be glad to evaluate it < 1176673845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the prime number theorem, about ln(10^2096) numbers will be needed. < 1176673854 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-038-191.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176673868 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10? < 1176673876 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone write a prime finder in BF < 1176673878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, 2 < 1176673971 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln(2) * 2096 < 1176673976 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logarithms are so neat < 1176673989 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2096? < 1176674016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176674317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< bsmntbombdood> Please output a prime with 2096 binary digits in decimal < 1176674762 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it's possible to compute with prime numbers? < 1176674856 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fundemental theorem of arithmatic < 1176675004 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could create a computing system out of adding them. < 1176675017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just incrementing them. < 1176675082 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a zero-tailed string of integers, and your two operations are "increment" and "truncate". When the string is truncated, the head will go into a Minsky machine register. < 1176675086 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only get one such register. < 1176675673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone print a prime of the form "n^m", where n and m are integers. < 1176675674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1176675700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... integers greater than 2. < 1176675720 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no! < 1176676256 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders < 1176676275 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just make it a Gaussian integer. < 1176676292 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme a Gaussian prime. < 1176676785 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176677071 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176677076 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about 2? < 1176677198 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is a Gaussian prime? < 1176677265 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176677282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snickers < 1176677518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 + i) (1 - i) = 2, maybe < 1176677598 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1176677607 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they're equal. < 1176677617 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1^2 - i^2 < 1176677639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my powers of mental calculation are a bit exhausted after trying to fix a wikipedia article < 1176677683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 may be a Gaussian prime then < 1176677851 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders < 1176677872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^2 - 1^2, or (2 + 1)(2 - 1), except that's really 3*1. < 1176677909 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Those rational primes which are congruent to 3 (mod 4) are Gaussian primes; those which are congruent to 1 (mod 4) are not." < 1176677941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an integer a gaussian integer? < 1176677956 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1176678093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gaussian integer is m + n i where m and n are integers. < 1176678104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including n = 0. < 1176678645 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176680883 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176681335 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176681948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how can i dl a picture in python if i have the url? < 1176681957 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urllib < 1176682007 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is a prime in {x | x \in Z, x > 2} < 1176682246 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1176682249 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles < 1176682260 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, yes, it is. < 1176682384 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1176682661 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-3 + 2i < 1176682662 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaussian prime i think < 1176682689 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 - 256i < 1176682918 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 + i < 1176683048 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bored < 1176683076 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 + i < 1176683198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if m^2 + n^2 is an ordinary prime then m + n i is a Gaussian one. < 1176683262 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course? < 1176683287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when you multiply two gaussian integers, their m^2 + n^2 are also multiplied, being their squared moduli < 1176686520 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :na[zZz]gjunk < 1176687080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. according to mathworld, if m and n are non-zero then that is equivalent. < 1176689117 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-130-171.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176689460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176692597 0 :Sukoshi!n=user@user-3cf843l.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176694038 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176694334 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176695163 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176696479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176699686 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176703503 0 :bsmnt_bot!i=gavin@adsl-76-201-191-162.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176706789 0 :na[zZz]gjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1176707302 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1176710399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176710400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176718620 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176718657 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176718669 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176719898 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176720299 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176721392 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176721409 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-172-190.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176721415 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176722587 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night everyone < 1176722600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why good afternoon :) < 1176722611 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176723524 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176723534 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176725666 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com" < 1176726706 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176726721 0 :UpTheDownstair!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176728655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176730071 0 :Bigcheese!n=blah@adsl-152-31-127.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176730346 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176730608 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176735406 0 :crathman_!n=chatzill@216.140.54.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176735409 0 :crathman_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :crathman < 1176735508 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176735525 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-063.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176742255 0 :UpTheDownstair!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1176742434 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176742495 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-063.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176744164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176744838 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176745779 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176747598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176749193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1176752575 0 :ville_!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176752612 0 :ville_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1176752844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i here? < 1176753613 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176753904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1176753909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll retry later < 1176755327 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1176758552 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176759233 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176760956 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can tell a loony by the length of the front page of their website. < 1176760972 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the time cube guy has a long front page < 1176760985 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do many conspiracy-theorists < 1176760993 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Richard Stallmann :-P < 1176761075 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Bigcheesegs < 1176761244 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know Canadian money had websites. < 1176762356 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176762606 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1176763063 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: eh??? < 1176763087 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or by "loony" did you mean "crazy person"? < 1176763139 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1176763732 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms is funny < 1176764859 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176765444 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176766041 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-173-48.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176766149 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4404 :) < 1176766194 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i like the name of that domain :D < 1176766198 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xDEADBEEFBABE :D < 1176766506 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xDEADCAFEBABE < 1176766590 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xD00D5 < 1176767760 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176768217 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176770204 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread! < 1176770243 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/hyper4_imag.png < 1176770248 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/hyper4_imag1_2big.png < 1176770253 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bsmntbombdood.mooo.com/hyper4_imag0_2.png < 1176770256 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super coolness < 1176770291 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176770359 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176770829 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!! < 1176770959 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, we have a kernel spec thingy! < 1176771065 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....we do? < 1176771118 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough, anyway. < 1176771139 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you posted on AbraSophia some while ago. < 1176771233 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that it failed < 1176771341 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... basically that's the entire spec. < 1176771345 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extremely basic for now. < 1176771357 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if problems come up or if something was unaddressed (like hardware)... I'll just add it later. < 1176771453 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware interupts will probably be handled by the kernel via an immediate context switch to a driver or something. < 1176771492 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...maybe not immediately... hardware is important, but you don't want to freeze up everything because of a slow hardware operation. < 1176771564 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces handle pretty much any information about memory you could want... < 1176771689 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....but... I have no clue how to implemetn all of this into low-level registers. < 1176771939 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the system calls I'm thinking of are alloc, dealloc, context switch... and maybe some kind of interrupt/hook setting thing. < 1176772024 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but hooks can be done in processes. you could register hardware interupts to a handler... which, in the case of abrasax, will probably delegate behavior to a hook process. (...if that's cool with you) < 1176772786 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176772822 0 :Bigcheese!n=blah@adsl-152-31-127.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176772851 0 :Bigcheese!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Bigcheesegs < 1176773578 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt: working on a modular C bot :D < 1176773595 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1176773646 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently on #botpark < 1176773663 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called BrassMonkey but it has the UnBot nick to save reregistration < 1176773683 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $reload all < 1176773683 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Reloading ALL modules < 1176773683 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* UnBot inserts shells and cocks < 1176773811 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j00 r teh clevar! < 1176773855 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, swap file? or swap partition? < 1176773863 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file sounds more painless to me. < 1176773871 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might be wrong. < 1176773998 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176774002 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files get fragmented < 1176774412 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partitions don't? < 1176774422 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1176774430 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partitions are continguous on the disk < 1176774475 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... files aren;t though? I thought all the data in a file was right close together. < 1176774487 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1176774498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although some filesystems try to avoid fragmentation. < 1176774638 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wait... isn't fragmentation only a problem when you read the data sequentially? < 1176774659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you try to write more to a file. . . (that's how fragmentation occurs) < 1176774729 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, I know the -cause-... but does it really matter that much if you're not reading the data sequentially? < 1176774753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1176774759 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... will probably go with a swap partition though... simply because it avoids fragmentation altogether I guess. < 1176774771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, sequential data reads is rather common. < 1176774775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are, even. < 1176774785 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> on a swap file? < 1176774791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in general. < 1176774815 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a swap file being read at random chunks. < 1176774824 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small sequential strips < 1176774828 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: doobey foober, dlong dop < 1176774834 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1176774852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: If you've got large programs, make that large sequential strips. < 1176774866 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1176774898 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay... I'm out of arguments... for something I don't really think would make sense. < 1176774902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend that you try using a filesystem which avoids fragmentation. . . < 1176774919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to a swap partition. < 1176774999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most Unix filesystems. ;)) < 1176775217 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall make his own... just for the hell of it. < 1176775242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use ext2? < 1176775257 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....because I'd like to try making my own < 1176775273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1176775282 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, if I wanted UNIX I'd just use it. < 1176775298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll port ext2 sometime later, so you can get a decent quality filesystem. < 1176775330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . If I( care enough to. < 1176775331 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure... if all goes right the filesystem wouldn't be hard at all to change. < 1176775359 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....still haven't written a single program for this OS though... I need to practice assembly/C < 1176775522 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably one of the best ways to figure out how to prevent fragmentation is to take a sample of general trends in file sizes and directory location. < 1176775558 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elphant-sized files... your images, audio, video stuff. < 1176775579 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will usually be close together in a directory tree.... usually. I have no empircal evidence to back that up. < 1176775588 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume people put there music together in one place. < 1176775793 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you could even get fancy with it and have the OS "remember" how files tend to be accessed. < 1176775816 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have different behaviors for different files. < 1176775894 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't necessarily care about simple. < 1176776095 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also... < 1176776123 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about system calls that don't require a magic hat are called "hatless" and those that do require one are called "hatful"? < 1176776146 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have a compelling argument against it, that's what we'll do, okay? :-) < 1176776317 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1176776368 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three hatless system calls here... < 1176776383 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And two of them may be unnecessary. < 1176776458 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, every system call I've put down so far except one are probably unnecessary. < 1176776469 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe two are necessary. < 1176776595 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only needed system calls are 's', 'k', and 'i' < 1176776600 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'i' is just for optimization. < 1176776613 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1176776621 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you want a ` system call as well? < 1176776641 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :D < 1176776655 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, all you need is * and i... or 0 and 1. < 1176776658 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though SII(SII) causes an infinite loop < 1176776664 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on whether you want your kernel to be Iota or Jot. < 1176776700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the system call "Lambda". < 1176776710 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176776930 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, well... I do kind of have an objection. The purpose of the hat thing is so that you use processes to build the API,. < 1176776960 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: what are you saying? < 1176776978 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel provides the low-level details... but rarely will those low-level details be directly called by anything other than a select few processes. mem will call memory allocation stuff, etc. < 1176776991 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it serves as an abstraction barrier of sorts. < 1176776993 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will processes communicate? < 1176777004 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> messages? < 1176777012 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sending a message isn't a system call? < 1176777038 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....got me there. < 1176777051 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.... hatful and hatless... :) < 1176777059 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't think about that. < 1176777105 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addd that to the spec... with a brief explaination of why. < 1176777142 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the only hatless one is the message passing... but I'm sure there are a few more. < 1176777181 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a hat? < 1176777196 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other reason for a hat level is... well... the microkernel doesn't use any other form of privledges... the API handles all of that. < 1176777219 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a prviledge flag on processes that determines whether or not they can use certain system calls. < 1176777234 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally it was ALL system calls... but I forgot that certain calls are pretty much necessary. < 1176777252 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the full term is "magic hat"... simply because it sounds cool. < 1176777339 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, and I think the filesystem should recognize file types... like osx does now. < 1176777377 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file extension associates work fine for recognizing file types on the top level.... but they really can't assist the filesystem in preventing things like fragmentation. < 1176777451 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the filesystem recognizes content types... then it can be smart about handling them. audio is typically large, and edited infrequently... while a swap file stays roughly the same most of the time, but will be written and read from frequently. < 1176777567 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...images, on the other hand... are generally read, decompressed to bitmap, edited, and then saved back all in one huge write. < 1176777923 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....text will change size and byte value often... but the reads and writes will be along the same pace as image writes. < 1176778075 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_allocation <-- this is an interesting technique < 1176782776 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176782836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176782866 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176782892 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176784329 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176790212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1176790462 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@c-75-70-225-157.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176790607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1176791857 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176792016 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1176796799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176796800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176805031 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep now, gnight < 1176805253 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"feel the power of a dynamic bot: http://rafb.net/p/xUFMl288.html | line buffer code: http://rafb.net/p/2JIiTz98.html" < 1176806168 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176806198 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176815457 0 :Bacta!n=t@203-173-137-174.bliink.ihug.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176815480 0 :Bacta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi I'm developing an OS in Brainfuck ... any advice? < 1176815534 0 :Bacta!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176815767 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176817739 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176820699 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-183-221.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176820730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, #esoteric trolls < 1176825261 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176825322 0 :ihope___!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176826203 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1176826367 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176828276 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-22-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176828859 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176828893 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176829562 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1176830327 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176832103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176832967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1176834390 0 :Izzy7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1176840109 0 :alex89ru!n=opinion@p5B12AE1B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176840208 0 :alex89ru!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176840393 0 :atrapado!i=opened@153.Red-81-47-1.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176840448 0 :Izzy7!i=senji@cleopatra.thy.me.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176842529 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176843493 0 :Bigcheesegs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"isoGames - The New Leader In Online Spectator Sports - /server -m irc.isoGames.com" < 1176843767 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1176844046 0 :ihope___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176844420 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, there won't be a read permissions for files. All files are readable by anyone. < 1176844476 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1176844540 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....why not? how can you have something that's public domain and read-protected? < 1176844556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smacks SevenInchBread with a hammer. < 1176844586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT! < 1176844596 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reading can't corrupt the data in the file... so it's a pretty safe operation compared to writing and executing. < 1176844681 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ONLY reason... you would set a read-protect... is to prevent something from seeing something. ...but right now I can't think of any good purpose for wanting to do that. < 1176844690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passwords? < 1176844723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti-chinese government propaganga? < 1176844724 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passwords sounds good. :) < 1176844731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*propaganda? < 1176844753 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ...that's actually a good point. I guess privacy would be nice. < 1176844785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you _could_ get away from it with a good encryption system. < 1176844796 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does linux have password protection built into its filesystem? < 1176844804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might actually be safer in case someone stole your harddisk. hm... < 1176844815 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, steganograpic file system. < 1176844852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux has ownership protection, and various ways of authorizing logins. < 1176844854 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... not a stego filesystem... but... a filesystem that lets you hide the existence of something. < 1176844860 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than simply garbling it up. < 1176844881 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think password protection would be a good addition to the filesystem. (haha... talk about a change of heart) < 1176844891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never really looked into encryption filesystems other than knowing they exist. < 1176844904 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :steganography is really interesting. < 1176844919 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176844941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually passwords are pretty weak. i am almost thinking having _just_ encryption and no read permissions is an improvement. < 1176844970 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hide porn in the least signifigant bits of family photos... you can easily deny that you ever put it there, in the rare case that someone would event attempt to look for it. < 1176844984 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1176845025 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like read permissions... but passwords (for locking stuff away from people) and encryption (for locking stuff away from machines) would be nice. < 1176845071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passwords -> passphrases for encryption < 1176845088 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nodnod- but they're succeptable to brute-force searches. < 1176845093 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which machines can easily do. < 1176845102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be long passphrases. < 1176845106 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is however... pretty effective against people. < 1176845136 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... my universal password for everything consists of five letters... < 1176845151 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there... you now have pretty much have access to everything I do. < 1176845214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mine are about 8-10, but i am somehow assuming the important ones are not available for brute-force search. < 1176845289 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some global mode type things would be useful too... so you know how to optimize. < 1176845306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1176845326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "keep this file compressed"? < 1176845354 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a system with low-memory can have a generic "low-memory" flag set... or a "high-memory" for the opposite. If the system has a lot of memory, then the filesystem stuff can afford to do more caching of file reads/writes, for example. < 1176845378 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it's a pain in the ass to do the check every time. < 1176845381 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just have to. < 1176845431 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but, that may be too general. < 1176845443 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since what "low memory" is... varies from application to application. < 1176845453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could have a process that could register requests to know if memory went low, with limits given by the requesting process < 1176845475 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- yeah, include it into some sort of "stats" process... < 1176845507 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to add a lot of nifty gadgets... even at the expense of simplicity. < 1176845521 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple interface is important... a simple implementation not so much. < 1176845611 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say read permissions are essential. < 1176845638 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? I've never seen a use for them myself. < 1176845644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not go with a full capability system? It seems to me they are all the rage over at Lambda the Ultimate < 1176845695 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... doesn't sound fun. < 1176845771 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For protecting data. < 1176845779 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passwords, etc... < 1176845788 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that needs protection. < 1176845798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it goes with the Principle of Least Authority, so it's fairly heavy security < 1176845819 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... the only reason I would use a read permission is privacy... HOWEVER. < 1176845824 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read permission offers no protection. < 1176845840 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No protection? < 1176845843 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't protect the file.... write permissions protect a file. You can't hurt a file by looking at it. < 1176845880 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Privacy isn't endangered by changing a file. < 1176845897 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- I know. two different purposes. < 1176845918 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read - privacy. write - protection. execute - non-fuck-up-your-computer-acy < 1176845922 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to store passwords, you need read permissions. < 1176845943 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the typical unix sense of read permission. < 1176845948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1176845961 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1176845970 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, linguistically speaking, a permission to read. but it's not a "unix read permission". < 1176846003 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passwords, methinks... are also easier to manage than read permissions for privacy. < 1176846021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encryption can do most of the read protection, but you need somewhere to store the system's initial codes... < 1176846027 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now instead of having to add a new user the read permission... you can just tell her the password. < 1176846046 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iniital codes? whatcha mean? < 1176846051 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if she doesn't want to remember the password? < 1176846057 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1176846058 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or type it in all the time? < 1176846063 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something? < 1176846067 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....hahahaha < 1176846079 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AAAARGH REMEMBERING A PASSWORD - GOD DAMNIT" < 1176846086 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess all you need is one password. < 1176846090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if you want the system to be able to startup without user interaction, it must have access to at least one unencrypted password or code < 1176846103 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also say a password is more secure from people than a user permission. < 1176846111 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1176846112 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you leave your computer... someone can't sneak up and look at the file. < 1176846127 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why operating systems have a "lock" feature. < 1176846134 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not from computers though... most passwords can be cracked with a brute-force search. ...for that you use full-blown encryption of the data. < 1176846145 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, not everyone does that. < 1176846179 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passwords ensure that the password is entered each time.... or (optionally) once in a certain span of time. < 1176846202 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: it could well be more convenient to hit a key every time you leave the computer than to type in a password every time you... do certain things. < 1176846221 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess theoretically you only need one password. < 1176846227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, no one wants to enter passwords all the time. < 1176846232 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people rarely make something private out of convience. < 1176846235 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd like to keep it that way. < 1176846271 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if you're the only one with access to a computer, passwords aren't needed at all. < 1176846282 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want to type in a password... then don't give it a password. < 1176846285 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... < 1176846288 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push the button and boom, you're logged in already. < 1176846294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had this idea of a program that could check your typing patterns and lock the computer if it changed... < 1176846299 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is on a one-man computer < 1176846302 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't give it a password, then other processes will be able to get at it. < 1176846321 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to keep things safe from other processes if not other users. < 1176846344 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... so? < 1176846365 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of anyone who wants to be lazy about keeping something hidden. < 1176846394 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if being lazy has no effect on security? < 1176846420 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if read permissions are implemented, you could always disable them. < 1176846429 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way you can convince me that user-based permissions are of equal security to read-based password locks. < 1176846471 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...of course... this little squabble has a fairly simple compromise. Both are possible at the same time. :P < 1176846480 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting why encryption is more secure than user-based stuff... < 1176846511 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passwords are by no means crytographically secure. < 1176846521 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say passwords. < 1176846537 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nodnod- I was just saying... not necessarily in opposition. < 1176846552 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... I mean... it wasn't a rebuttal. < 1176846577 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My conclusion is that they're equal, since one can easily simulate the other. < 1176846600 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you don't let every process read every other process's memory. < 1176846602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not equal if someone can get direct read access to your disk < 1176846603 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a huge difference.... but I also see the comparitive benefits and drawbacks of both. < 1176846606 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... I'm all for both. < 1176846650 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there are user-based or process-based permissions, that doesn't stop you from encrypting everything. < 1176846675 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the lack thereof doesn't keep you from simulating them, as long as you can supply a password. < 1176846707 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to be lazily private (somehow...).. use read permissions. If you want full-blown guaranteed privacy from most humans... use password protection. < 1176846713 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're insanely paranoid, use both. < 1176846767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, if you are insanely paranoid, you would encrypt your entire hard disk and insist on a 256 character passphrase. or something like that. < 1176846782 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that everyone who uses both is insanely paranoid? < 1176846821 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I think it makes sense for user file permissions to be set on the file.... and process-based permissions to be set on the process (...the default permissions values being set on the executable that originated the process) < 1176846835 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... either paranoid... or has a huge secret. < 1176846874 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you use both and don't have a huge secret, you're paranoid. < 1176846886 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because PIDs aren't persistent... so it wouldn't make any sense to set a "PID 5 can't write on me" on a file. < 1176846956 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we couldn't just offer read permissions and let the non-paranoids without huge secrets choose between those and encryption? < 1176846996 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see this boiling down to "read access can be restricted" vs. "read access can't be restricted", though encryption naturally has to be taken into account. < 1176847062 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you disagree? < 1176847069 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> I thought we decided to do both? but it seems like we're still debating for some reason... < 1176847074 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1176847078 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do both? < 1176847102 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Offer them but don't force them, in other words? < 1176847122 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, I'm happy. < 1176847122 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. I never even mentioned forcing them. O.o < 1176847145 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I see a huge difference.... but I also see the comparitive benefits and drawbacks of both. < 1176847146 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... I'm all for both. < 1176847166 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. We'll offer them. < 1176847207 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password-protect write and execute too? Might as well have the option to use it.... even though I see them being comparatively less useful. < 1176847283 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most complicated part of designing the filesystem, I think, will be version control. < 1176847352 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically I see two operations for that... reverting a file modification... or reverting a data modification. < 1176847375 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the difference between ctime and mtime in unix... but with versioning. < 1176847421 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and then a way to associate names/numbers to certain snapshots.... like tags in svn. < 1176847435 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python.exe@2.1 < 1176848156 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like the whole "filesystem macro" thing... so you could define a macro on the fs process... when the macro operation fails, the entire thing is reverted - thus making it fully atomic. < 1176848449 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fs defmacro (move, (x, y), copy (%x, %y); del (%x)) < 1176848454 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or something. < 1176849607 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-71-113.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176850439 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176850754 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176852073 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176854659 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-171-178.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176855704 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :glament < 1176855801 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176855846 0 :glament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1176856354 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176856676 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176859470 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176860187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176861218 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4423 <--awesome < 1176861224 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run that < 1176861363 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not aweseome < 1176862286 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1176862291 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT < 1176862315 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure you agree with the guy with a seven inch bread < 1176864811 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1176865344 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176866928 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1176867895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has actually done some work on BFM. . . < 1176868448 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congradulations! < 1176868765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time in months. < 1176868780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baadf00d < 1176873269 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176873458 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"End of line." < 1176877000 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1176877022 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176879084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176879096 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1176883199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176883200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176892076 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-040-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176893222 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1176893587 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176893722 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176893909 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1176893996 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1176895199 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S http://heresabunnywithapancakeonitshead.com/ < 1176895508 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot follow what thatpython code does < 1176895613 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing a function a lambda that contains that function, and to which that function will be passed, is one of the most confusing control structures ever < 1176896066 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176899957 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176902341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1176903178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1176906951 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176908812 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176911157 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176912343 0 :meatmanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1176912506 0 :meatmanek!n=meatmane@cpe-65-29-79-179.indy.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1176914979 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-90.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1176916878 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1176924806 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176927432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176927441 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176930262 0 :atrapado!i=opened@196.Red-81-47-11.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176930395 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176931303 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176932107 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1176935158 0 :ihope___!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176935339 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why python code? < 1176935506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Because they're EVIL!" < 1176937463 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-151-221.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1176937583 0 :ihope___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1176937968 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1176938357 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hope... < 1176940937 0 :UpTheDownstair!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1176940956 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176942586 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176943134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176943136 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176943926 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1176947548 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1176953721 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1176953727 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paul graham is one funny guy < 1176954672 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176961771 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176963482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176965358 0 :UpTheDownstair!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1176967167 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1176968228 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1176969599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1176969600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1176972004 0 :fax!i=usr46274@80.193.211.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176972007 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1176972044 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not the best place to ask, but does anyone have any examples of small TeX programs producing lots of interesting output? < 1176972180 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw the output of a TeX pi & e generator once < 1176972298 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is actually an excellent place to ask that, but I'm afraid I don't have any :P < 1176972335 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1176972341 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well me neither, and im bloody stuck < 1176972349 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, If I do find any.. ill link it < 1176972775 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!!!! http://home.imf.au.dk/grove/tex.html < 1176973103 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's infuriating X-D < 1176973135 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to archive.org, it's been like that since 2001 :P < 1176973153 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK!!!! < 1176973155 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1176973306 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said the magic word, now anything you say will be accepted for bash.org < 1176973456 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw shit < 1176973467 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to use tr to replace some char with unicode? < 1176973477 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried like LC_CTYPE=UTF-8 ; echo hello | tr e \343\201\204 < 1176973479 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no luck :| < 1176973886 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1176974744 0 :Rodger!n=Rodger@brin.csl.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1176974755 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it going, everyone? < 1176974800 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rodger: dide < 1176974801 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1176974836 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION verry annoyed at tr < 1176974867 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunh? < 1176974879 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man :/ < 1176974887 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to replace some ASCII chars with unicode characters < 1176974891 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cant get tr to do it < 1176974898 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to use fucking perl or somthing < 1176974904 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i really need to do it with tr < 1176974982 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware that tr had unicode support < 1176974990 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt afaict < 1176975002 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& cant abuse it into doing what I want :| < 1176975107 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man fuck this < 1176975116 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to string together like 16 sed commands < 1176975131 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1176975144 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds oddly appropriate for this channel < 1176975149 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm sed y/// might work < 1176975176 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: 1: "y/x/つ/ < 1176975176 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :": transform strings are not the same length < 1176975177 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1176975203 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is unix so crap?! < 1176975345 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1176975349 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a horrible hack < 1176975363 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "xyz" | sed -e 'y/xyz/\343\201\244/' < 1176975367 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :produces some unicode < 1176975383 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose I can replace every letter with a corresponding 3 char code < 1176975396 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better question than "why is unix so crap?" would be "why doesn't unix natively support Unicode?" The answer is that Unix is friggin *old*. < 1176975407 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1176975411 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might work < 1176975424 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1176975434 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do that id have to string together multiple sed expressions < 1176975442 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I may as well replace w/ unicode directly < 1176975446 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually, thats no use :| < 1176975513 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1176975521 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -e -e -e -e -e it is < 1176975858 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1176975913 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap < 1176975915 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true ; do dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1200 count=1 2>/dev/null | md5 ; done | sed -e s/0/ロ/ -e s/1/東/ -e s/2/京/ -e s/3/ス/ -e s/3/ス/ -e s/4/オ/ -e s/5/ラ/ -e s/6/カ/ -e s/7/ス/ -e s/8/ケ/ -e s/9/ト/ -e s/a/ダ/ -e s/b/㐭/ -e s/c/㤸/ -e s/d/㒵/ -e s/e/㤵/ -e s/f/㬲/ < 1176975924 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its replacing _most_ of the characters < 1176975928 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats just awful. < 1176975932 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I give up < 1176975947 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait im thick < 1176975953 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be s///g < 1176975987 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew* < 1176975987 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true ; do dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1200 count=1 2>/dev/null | md5 ; done | sed -e s/0/ロ/g -e s/1/東/g -e s/2/京/g -e s/3/ス/g -e s/3/ス/g -e s/4/オ/g -e s/5/ラ/g -e s/6/カ/g -e s/7/ス/g -e s/8/ケ/g -e s/9/ト/g -e s/a/ダ/g -e s/b/㐭/g -e s/c/㤸/g -e s/d/㒵/g -e s/e/㤵/g -e s/f/㬲/g < 1176975992 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1176975994 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix effects: D < 1176975994 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1176976029 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lool < 1176976817 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1176976825 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rodger: did you run it? did it work? < 1176976837 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id love to know if its possible to replace all that sed crap with a single tr < 1176977134 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1176977489 0 :Rodger!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :RodgerTheGreat < 1176978393 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1176980382 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to sleep now, gnight < 1176980690 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"/dev/dsp sucks for recording :\" < 1176983832 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1176993124 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1176994230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Scheduled power failure" < 1176994524 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yes < 1176996053 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-193.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177001873 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-95-206.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177003686 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177005177 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elamnt < 1177006370 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177010215 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177010577 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177011847 0 :elamnt!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1177015122 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177015517 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something for your esoteric reading pleasure: http://www.saint-andre.com/jabber/telnet.txt < 1177016389 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177017065 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewww xml < 1177017154 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How Jabber users transfer images: http://www.codu.org/rxml.php < 1177017156 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-P < 1177018461 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177018811 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177018846 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177018861 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177019349 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177019357 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177019554 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177019674 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177019751 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177020014 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177020512 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177021342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1177021383 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177021621 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177022381 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177022469 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177022834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177024883 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177030901 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177032767 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=GreaseMo@222-154-151-221.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1177033236 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1177033251 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, guys < 1177042718 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177043373 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177043661 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ is the most esoteric language of them all :/ < 1177043734 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? :P < 1177043735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stops being esoteric when knowledge of it is a normal requirement for a CS course. < 1177043738 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C can be worse < 1177043749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it can still be fucking weird as hell) < 1177043771 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1177043771 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.flickr.com/120/304387877_3fb38f8156.jpg < 1177043784 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My God! It's full of cars!" < 1177043823 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kudos if you know what webcomic that's used as side-joke in < 1177043835 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what language they were refering to. < 1177043837 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1177043839 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaghetti! :) < 1177043845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *language* is Lisp. < 1177043846 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1177043855 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq gets half a kudo. < 1177043864 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the comic? :) < 1177043867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1177043873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Could* be xkcd. . . < 1177043880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure 'bout that. < 1177043891 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bingo < 1177043893 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1177043911 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/c224.html < 1177043914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/c224.html I'm right, indeed. < 1177043918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1177043930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a full kudos < 1177043938 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1177044016 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True or False: "props" can be used as a verb. < 1177044025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1177044047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He props up the sign" < 1177044059 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What case/tense is that? < 1177044066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question. < 1177044071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1177044084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could tell you were it in one of my *non*native languages. :p < 1177044097 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177044114 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1177044123 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish apparently has ___ grammatical cases? < 1177044130 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1177044200 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's 15... < 1177044248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't speak Finnish; can't help you. < 1177044259 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I < 1177044263 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177044270 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some wikipedians apparently do < 1177044284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does Japanese and Esperanto (to varying degrees of ability) < 1177044358 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the past tense of 'eat' in esperanto? < 1177044524 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La hundo vendis horlo^goj. < 1177044549 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^g --> g with ^ < 1177044588 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever go back to designing languages < 1177044615 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't put those obnoxious extra characters into it :P < 1177044627 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd either make my own alphabet < 1177044638 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use one of the already working ones :P < 1177044921 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes pikhq < 1177045088 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone give me a list of 20 words in English that stay the same in the past participle? < 1177045101 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*past tense < 1177045496 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figs: homework? :) < 1177046670 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1177046673 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just bored < 1177046673 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177046684 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the slow reply -- I left for dinner < 1177046690 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got back < 1177046696 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way, you can find a list here: < 1177046700 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_irregular_verbs < 1177047138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns for not very long. . . < 1177047152 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1177047155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could remember the infinitive of 'eat', I could tell you. < 1177047163 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La hundo vendis horlogo. < 1177047168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mi estas esperanta komencanto. . . < 1177047190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kaj mia esperanto ne bonas. < 1177047271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves < 1177047278 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely even know any :P < 1177047291 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even if you are a newbie, it's ok :P < 1177047298 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the meaning, right?) < 1177047317 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm an esperanto newbie, and my esperanto isn't good."? < 1177049659 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177050358 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177050436 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177051317 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreazeMonkey < 1177051375 0 :GreazeMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zannze < 1177052078 0 :zannze!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1177052281 0 :Figs_!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177052291 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1177052295 0 :Figs_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Figs < 1177052317 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177052324 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177053934 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177055999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177056000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177057316 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177057320 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177058130 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177065018 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177065159 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177067580 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep, gnight < 1177067689 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"MITM attacks are so evil." < 1177073797 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-048-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177074010 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177076894 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177077375 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1177079668 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1177082090 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177083589 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177084400 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177086166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177087680 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-73.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177091684 0 :thorat!n=doddi@194-144-13-100.du.xdsl.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1177091724 0 :thorat!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177092113 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177097605 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177098268 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded < 1177098647 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177101693 0 :LeaLeaLea!n=chatzill@12.178.87.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177101971 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177102385 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177103856 0 :LeaLeaLea!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :RainbowTrout < 1177104438 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177104522 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do de do de do < 1177104936 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177105015 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177105322 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177105389 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177106002 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177106422 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177106446 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177106624 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177107801 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177107808 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177108446 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I tell you I calculated the power density of the Sun? 0.27 W/m^3. No wonder the hot-fusion people are have such a hard time. < 1177108884 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177109597 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-70-2.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177110524 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177111008 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1177111055 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awt awt awt < 1177111096 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very dense < 1177111174 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: what's a greek urn? < 1177111179 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: any one where the TLD is .gr ! < 1177111183 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot* < 1177111185 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(urn = Universal Resource Name .. a superset of URLs) < 1177111185 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177111187 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the ususal punchline, eh?) < 1177111195 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed < 1177111257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, the sun is not optimized for producing the most possible effect. < 1177111281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, i assume it produces just enough to compensate for gravitation. < 1177111317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, the fact that there exist much larger stars indicates that more effect is possible. < 1177111349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i think fusion only happens in the core. < 1177111419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i suspect the larger ones have lower output per area. < 1177111474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean volume? < 1177111541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it. i understand blue giants live much shorter, which means they must burn faster. < 1177112830 0 :fax!i=usr63675@80.193.211.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177112831 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1177112846 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins random IRC channels in the hope of finding somthing exciting happning < 1177112865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i saw you here before in the logs? < 1177112872 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah ive been here a few times < 1177112884 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Im no good with esoteric languages so I feel bad < 1177112888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you had some question. hm. < 1177112905 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh regarding tr? I gave up and used the less elegant sed commands.. < 1177112922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that was it. < 1177112933 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr can do what you want i think < 1177112940 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I was sleep deprived and manic < 1177112950 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I end up writing a one liner matrix screensaver < 1177112960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say that perl has a tr command too, but i don't know if it does Unicode any better. < 1177112962 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& whats more thats the only line of code I wrote in a week :/ < 1177112972 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used perl's tr, It would look stupid < 1177112979 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "Why doesnt he just do it all in perl" < 1177112991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha... < 1177112992 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think anyway.. < 1177112999 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr "a" "b"? < 1177113014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one possible syntax. < 1177113019 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: translate ASCII characters to unicode, it might be possible by setting local env vars or somthing.. < 1177113023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait... < 1177113024 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didnt bother < 1177113027 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to find ot) < 1177113041 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another (ugly) solution is sed to replace each ASCII with 3 ASCII chars, then tr should work < 1177113045 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats really.. stupid < 1177113053 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single sed expression or a sed & a tr < 1177113064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess tr/a/b/ is more usual. < 1177113131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, why _don't_ you just do it all in perl. < 1177113172 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1177113236 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 'cos anyone could do it in perl :p < 1177113247 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just trying to accumulate lots of interesting "Bash one liners" < 1177113371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... you could use sed to build the sed command. < 1177113394 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo I like that < 1177113429 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats crafty :D < 1177113452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code generation ftw < 1177113768 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rar < 1177113775 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know sed as well as I should :p < 1177113778 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks somthing up < 1177113895 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[ < 1177113900 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sed doesnt support \| :/ < 1177113991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you need that for? < 1177114008 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like this\|that, to match "this" or "that" < 1177114014 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose ill have to use two expressions then < 1177114017 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a shame < 1177114063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are matching single characters, just use [] < 1177114077 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its either a single space, or 3 characters < 1177114091 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177114233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your sed support the -r option? < 1177114243 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :/ < 1177114245 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a crap sed < 1177114262 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ill just take out spaces < 1177114290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177114495 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1177114503 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can I have a fucntion named : but not a variable: | < 1177114562 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=sed`echo '0ヰ1東2京3ス4ス5オ6ラ7カ8ス9ケaトbダcガd㒵eジfヤ' | sed -e 's/\(.\)\(...\)/ -e s\/\1\/\2\/g/g'` && while true ; do dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1200 count=1 2>/dev/null | md5 ; done | $x < 1177114566 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot shorter! thanks :D < 1177114604 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a secretive name for the variable < 1177114864 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1177114908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true ; do dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1200 count=1 2>/dev/null | md5 ; done | sed`echo '0ヰ1東2京3ス4ス5オ6ラ7カ8ス9ケaトbダcガd㒵eジfヤ' | sed -e 's/\(.\)\(...\)/ -e s\/\1\/\2\/g/g'` < 1177114913 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1177114930 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@@@ < 1177114932 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1!!!!! < 1177114932 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1177114937 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn < 1177114941 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: thanks a lot < 1177114946 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didnt actually know that you could do that < 1177114952 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :D < 1177115135 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177115234 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the md5 in there? < 1177115305 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 generates a fixed length string from the characters 0-9a-z < 1177115311 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just hash random data then transform it < 1177115314 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes a matrix effect lol < 1177115512 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177117663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177117692 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hey this is a good place to ask :D < 1177117698 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what the most simple languages are < 1177117701 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I though < 1177117723 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus has 3 cases to consider, brainfuck has 7 (if you ignore inputs) and life has 8 cases < 1177117730 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am I missing anything? < 1177117740 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wht about 2 4 5 and 6? < 1177117953 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: single combinator systems < 1177117965 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one combinator, one application character < 1177117992 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1177118028 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very interesting < 1177118285 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I find out more? < 1177118374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the name, but there's a functional language with 2. < 1177118421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd argue that as far as instruction set goes, Life is the simplest. :p < 1177118436 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1177118447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life has 2 states. < 1177118463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instructions for transformations between these 2 states. < 1177118466 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but the rules of evaluation are somewhat more complex I think < 1177118474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all that complex, really. < 1177118516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really just a 2 dimensional analog of a Turing machine. < 1177119411 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: iota is one that's written up, but there are better ones < 1177119466 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ling.ucsd.edu/~barker/Iota/ < 1177119467 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1177119687 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool :D < 1177120538 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert enthusiastic shout of "SevenInchBread!" here. < 1177120595 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: are you aware of OISC? < 1177120601 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1177120609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One instruction computing. < 1177120612 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC is fun. < 1177120633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The options for that one instruction range from SBN to MOV. < 1177120825 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes! < 1177120833 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC is sweet < 1177120834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Turing complete. < 1177120838 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats weird < 1177120839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, it is sweet. < 1177120869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOV is Turing complete by having special addresses in the CPU. . . < 1177120884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SBN just gets one instruction that does multiple things. < 1177120889 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subleq is nicer < 1177120894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It subtracts *and* conditionally branches. < 1177120896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Yeah. < 1177120945 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody hell! < 1177120948 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats really crazy < 1177120958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1177120961 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean about MOV < 1177120968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not crazy. < 1177120968 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never thought of thta < 1177120972 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean like < 1177120975 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1177120986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MOV OISC has been implemented in Wireworld, BTW. < 1177121001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thereby proving Wireworld's Turing completeness) < 1177121119 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1177121135 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats neat < 1177121184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kind of stuff is why we're here in #esoteric. :) < 1177123982 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177124503 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALRIGHT < 1177124516 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... what are all the options that a context switch system call might need? < 1177124522 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I've just got a maximum time. < 1177124568 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could do things like "until system call" or "until sends a messge" or something < 1177124678 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep the system calls to a minimum? < 1177124686 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what precisely do you mean by a "context switch system"? < 1177124702 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...a context switch system call < 1177124730 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a system call that switches the context of CPU execution to another processes state < 1177124734 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1177124783 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, I don't care about the number of system calls -- that doesn't determine how small your kernel is. < 1177124788 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just how limited the interface is ;) < 1177124817 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you NEED a context switch system call if you don't want the scheduling algorithm in the kernel itself. < 1177124827 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have interrupts? < 1177124847 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not of the software sort. < 1177124866 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hardware interupts are implied... and I've got a way to handle them. < 1177124962 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1177124995 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a method for flagging processes (or whatever) at different priority levels? < 1177125002 0 :RainbowTrout!n=chatzill@12.178.87.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177125028 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, I've got a way to set attributes... so the scheduler can set a priority attribute if it wants. < 1177125048 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RainbowTrout, YOU CAN ALREADY TELL THIS CONVERSATION IS A BLAST < 1177125053 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED. < 1177125071 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm... < 1177125080 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello RainbowTrout < 1177125085 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1177125087 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177125097 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quietly ignores that. < 1177125099 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate your face. < 1177125106 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR FACE IS STUPIDER < 1177125109 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not as much as I .. < 1177125110 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1177125112 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ISNT < 1177125117 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah? < 1177125123 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you enjoy having a nose? < 1177125135 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Go on < 1177125151 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER THE GOD DAMN QUESTION < 1177125158 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1177125176 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~help < 1177125182 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1177125190 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ahem- ignore. < 1177125202 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swims. < 1177125729 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: what CPU is this for? x86? < 1177125886 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1177125936 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, then you should have some interesting/painful hardware features to play with for this < 1177126180 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the "barrel processor" approach to multitasking fascinating- with well designed software, very efficient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_processor < 1177126207 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....why do I twitch whenever I hear the word "efficient" < 1177126222 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE THIS WORD, FOR NO REASON AT ALL < 1177126228 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it should *always* be conditionalized < 1177126238 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....what? < 1177126244 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is universally efficient, an oft-missed fact < 1177126246 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: that's interesting < 1177126259 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think of annoying business people and uptight engineer nerd people and SUICIDE < 1177126273 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1177126312 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: what if there's less than enough threads? < 1177126329 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the main issue < 1177126353 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you put proccesses at different priorities? < 1177126370 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to design your OS to prevent that from happening, or at least make use of empty threads < 1177126371 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't think it's intended to be the... high-level part. < 1177126382 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't use priorities at all < 1177126393 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...reminds me of a machine gun < 1177126415 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if they just had a array of pointers to threads < 1177126429 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could fill that array fully with one thread to run it constantly < 1177126431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me think of a shotgun. "Double barreled", usw. < 1177126460 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work pretty well < 1177126489 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....how do you use pointers in... hardware? < 1177126512 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing is that a CPU like that would be shit-tons harder to deadlock < 1177126513 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: same way you use them in software? < 1177126520 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: they're called "registers" < 1177126536 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: the os breaks in every timer interupt... < 1177126542 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so deadlocking should be hard < 1177126562 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the kernel wants to stop you from running, it only has to wait 1/60 second < 1177126575 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you = a thread < 1177126729 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, you could do a dual core processor... one being a single-thread "master" CPU... and a second barrel processor. < 1177126818 0 :bd_!n=foo@donlanbj3.umeres.maine.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1177126820 0 :RProgrammer!n=RProgram@WPNT834.dsl.gcectelecom.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177126824 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...IF YOU WANTED < 1177126842 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: meet RProgrammer. :-) < 1177126863 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI :) < 1177126873 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bd_ too, for that matter. < 1177126880 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hides* < 1177126880 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hola < 1177126884 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone use J? < 1177126884 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI BD_ NICE WEATHER YEAH :) < 1177126889 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J? < 1177126899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1177126899 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kinda based on APL < 1177126900 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Java, I take it < 1177126902 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: do you know much about programming for the x86? < 1177126907 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1177126911 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not really esoteric.. < 1177126915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs a true test of geekiness. . . < 1177126920 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jsoftware.com/ < 1177126921 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1177126924 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because I'm using a PPC right now < 1177126925 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it cool < 1177126926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowledge of Brainfuck? < 1177126927 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bd_: do you know much about programming for the x86? < 1177126954 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope >.> < 1177126976 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1177127095 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I know a smidgeon. < 1177127098 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only a smidgeon < 1177127125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION much prefers less esoteric architectures than IA32. < 1177127220 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Your definition of "esoteric" is clearly incorrect. Regardless of how sensible or nonsensical an architecture is, if it's popular, it's not esoteric. < 1177127220 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I came up with Whitespace < 1177127240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm obviously kidding. < 1177127262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really mean is, of course, that IA32 is a nonsensical architecture, worthy of being esoteric. < 1177127274 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177127337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly. . . < 1177127362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current IA32 system I'm using supports IA16, IA32, and AMD64. . . Somehow. < 1177127430 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177127432 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SIR < 1177127439 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY OPINION IS SUPERIOR TO YOURS < 1177127695 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opinion is objective and is therefore perfect. < 1177127748 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snickers < 1177127820 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION creates a subclass of ihope, adds functions, and is now more perfect than ihope < 1177127866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1177127880 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfection is achieved not when nothing can be added but when nothing can be removed. < 1177127893 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I must be JObject or TObject or whatever fancy thing it is. < 1177127958 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were part of the Java API, I'd want to be java.util < 1177127981 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains so many of my good friends, like Vector and Random. < 1177128003 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah Random, what happy times they were... < 1177128111 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a room-sized faraday cage < 1177128122 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with lead shielding < 1177128131 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with concrete < 1177128155 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a generator, I presume? < 1177128181 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power in can be filtered < 1177128199 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose a nuclear reactor would be best for power < 1177128354 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is becoming more of an underground complex than a room. < 1177128362 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I fully endorse. < 1177128376 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underground complexes are awesome for a number of reasons. < 1177128379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, a bunker < 1177128400 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunker would be sofa king cool < 1177128451 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always thought it'd be pretty awesome to live in a renovated nuclear bunker. < 1177128507 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1177128948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants an underground complex for house/server warehouse < 1177128962 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I co-op there? < 1177128990 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, we all have the same dream < 1177129007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure; just pay me for the power usage. < 1177129017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bandwidth, of course. < 1177129026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should give you some rock-solid stability. < 1177129043 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft, bandwidth, just hack some guy's satellite internet < 1177129048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Survive the nuclear war, it will. < 1177129059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: We're talking "500 T3 lines" < 1177129063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1177129073 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but the internet and power distribution networks won't, so it doesn't matter < 1177129084 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By some guy, I mean NASA < 1177129086 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1177129094 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ll < 1177129095 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1177129097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Nuclear power in-bunker. . . < 1177129103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet link? < 1177129112 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so in-bunker < 1177129124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if there's a nuclear war, I'm going to be more about *surviving* than about watching Homestar. < 1177129137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: Fine. In the same mountain. < 1177129153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Hell; I'd just like to take over Cheyenne Mountain. :p < 1177129173 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty sweet < 1177129177 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not secure enough though < 1177129184 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean by definition, unless you want to put every network node in your mountain, Internet will always be the first to go < 1177129185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have to leave town, get an underground bunker. . . < 1177129188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth it. < 1177129193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: Yeah. < 1177129207 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs < 1177129210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, the idea at that point is to live, not to be online. < 1177129228 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: let's take over cheyenne mountain < 1177129248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your server will *still* have rock-solid stability. . . Although nobody else will be able to tell, since they'll be dead. < 1177129252 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just have to lock ourselves in, and they'll never take it back from us < 1177129262 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, before it goes down, you download 73% of the internet into your 3 Petabytes of in-bunker storage < 1177129269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Sure; only maybe an hour from here. :p < 1177129278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: Screw 3 petabytes. < 1177129295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could afford at *least* 100 with all of the co-op deals I'd be getting. < 1177129296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1177129296 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NORADBlast-Doors.jpg < 1177129305 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get too big, 64-Bit won't hold it < 1177129309 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that picture makes me hot < 1177129339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: That, um, doesn't matter anymore. . . < 1177129355 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a nuclear war, I'm going to want a couple good novels and an offline copy of Wikipedia < 1177129365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The addressing limit was gotten around for hard drives on 32 bit systems. . . In the late 90s. < 1177129375 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Wikipedia in 10 gigabytes < 1177129384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can get wp db dumps < 1177129388 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure of the size, though < 1177129393 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1177129395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there aren't exactly many OSes which mmap the *entire drive*. < 1177129411 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not memory, NFS < 1177129429 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nfs (lowercase) < 1177129434 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: that's my point- it's rather simple to do, and it'd be *awesome* to have in such a situation < 1177129456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: Who said anything about NFS? I can use a *much* better system than that. . . < 1177129479 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I corrected nfs (lowercase) < 1177129481 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus maybe a complete dump of Bash.org for entertainment purposes and remembering the good 'ol days of IRC < 1177129490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hems and haws. . . RAID using network block devices? < 1177129503 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despise ambiguous brand names (HD DVD, ...) < 1177129514 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... maybe an archive of textfiles.org as well < 1177129519 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some good reading there < 1177129527 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1177129532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell. Just get an *orbiting* bunker. . . Large enough to contain everyone you care about. < 1177129541 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nevermind < 1177129553 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-Bit limit is 16384 Petabytes < 1177129561 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not at all the same and you know it. Underground is where it's at, unless by "orbiting", you mean "on the moon" < 1177129579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one needn't worry about that, anyways; that only applies to addressing. < 1177129590 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 Exabytes < 1177129592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: The moon is orbiting, isn't it? < 1177129599 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but still... < 1177129605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I may want an orbiting *Mars-sized* bunker. < 1177129618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carry the half of the planet you care about. :p < 1177129620 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kinda ceases to be a "bunker" at that point < 1177129630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very, very large one. < 1177129635 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that you wouldn't have to worry about the internet... < 1177129641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the idea. < 1177129652 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would have to worry about your own nuclear wars < 1177129655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it'd defeat the purpose by that point. < 1177129658 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at that scale, you'd have a very large risk of nuclear war *inside* the bunker, which just creates the same problem all over again < 1177129659 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1177129664 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beat to the punch. < 1177129697 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you rule a race of genetically engineered little people whose sole religion is to pay tribute in server space... < 1177129712 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make funny YouTube videos < 1177129764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if I pick out only those who aren't a nuclear war risk. < 1177129777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will avoid Vi users. :p < 1177129915 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"first rule of DynaMars station: Do not talk about the implausibility or inefficiency of DynaMars station." < 1177129936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/November_2006/en/ < 1177129951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite right. < 1177129955 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.4GB * 4 for all of wikipedia < 1177129973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit more for MySQL and MediaWiki. < 1177129984 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's html < 1177129997 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not wiki markup?! < 1177130006 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha? < 1177130015 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get an HTML dump now, too? < 1177130019 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kewl beans! < 1177130025 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1177130026 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see link < 1177130043 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah crap, loading the list of pages crashed firefox < 1177130046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still prefer a database dump. < 1177130047 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, damn- that isn't half bad at all < 1177130051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit more flexible. < 1177130058 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer html < 1177130076 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the database dump would be more useful long-run, but the HTML would be handy for portable viewing < 1177130078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the kind of person who already *has* MySQL running, just for the hell of it. < 1177130103 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.4 GB Compiled to HTML! And is that only Deflate, not even GZip?! < 1177130124 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the kind of person that'd want to view the archive from a Zaurus or something < 1177130134 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, me too < 1177130138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gzip is a compression format which uses the DEFLATE algorithm. . . < 1177130153 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had the hdd space, I would download that < 1177130178 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought it was slightly better than LZ77 < 1177130212 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is seriously considering downloading that < 1177130220 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a few gigs to spare... < 1177130234 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lucky my gigs spare me < 1177130253 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how often they dump it.. < 1177130265 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: read. < 1177130271 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"November 2006" < 1177130273 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found it *extremely* handy in the past having a copy of the Java API docs on my laptop < 1177130274 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wtf < 1177130288 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1177130299 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noticed you can download wikipedia < 1177130301 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the html or the db dump is bigger < 1177130302 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is that the latest one? < 1177130311 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML is larger, has to be < 1177130315 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML might compress better, though < 1177130331 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki markup uses templates, ultimate compression < 1177130343 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information entropy ;( < 1177130349 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of the entropy?! < 1177130355 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to think of templates as "pre-compressing" data < 1177130359 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble finding the sizes for the db dumps < 1177130368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Wiki database, IIRC, has compression on the live database. < 1177130372 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do some of the same things a normal compression engine would do < 1177130388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could, of course, be wrong as fuck) < 1177130430 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble uncloging my tubes (it's not a truck!), I accidently clicked on the 261M file and, note to others: Firefox loads it as text < 1177130451 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, christ < 1177130469 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: I made the same mistake < 1177130518 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers should consider Content-Length, not just Content-Type when choosing to view or download < 1177130537 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would file a feature request if I wasn't lazy < 1177130572 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you want to save this file to disk, instead of viewing it in your browser? [view] [download]" < 1177130689 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1177130691 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like they should for PDFs < 1177130701 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly worded. < 1177130724 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1177130744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This file is 2000 Petabytes. Would you like to: [view] [download] [cancel request]" < 1177130752 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml db dump is only 2.3GB < 1177130753 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LoL < 1177130768 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feels like a good moment to link http://www.codu.org/rxml.php < 1177130785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shameless whore. < 1177130790 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1177130811 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raster images in xml? < 1177130813 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeeewwwwwwwww < 1177130821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector, i can understand < 1177130840 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1177130845 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1177130850 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snicker.. < 1177130872 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looool < 1177130874 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, "As of February of 2007, the entire collection of images produce a compressed tar.gz file of over 213 GB (gigabytes)." < 1177130877 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats like img2 < 1177130943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I think it uses something like: < 1177130951 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much in jpeg? < 1177130961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1177130977 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1177130978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RProgrammer: That's a tarball of the JPEGs, PNGs, and SVGs. < 1177130981 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why dont they just use SQL < 1177130993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: They also offer MySQL dumps. < 1177131005 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god :| < 1177131016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps#What_happened_to_the_SQL_dumps.3F < 1177131024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Apparently not. < 1177131056 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, my question is answered now, that site has monthly wikipedia HTML dumps. Up to April 2007 < 1177131116 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imagine the analysis possibilities < 1177131129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's part of the idea. < 1177131275 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1177131285 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad you can't get html of just content pages < 1177131323 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like half the size < 1177131391 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could automate culling of stubs, but they often contain at least a small amount of information on the most esoteric topics on the Wikipedia < 1177131402 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, wiktionary is only 46MB < 1177131404 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads < 1177131409 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, cool < 1177131423 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use wiktionary all the time < 1177131439 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the format is usable < 1177131779 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi, wiktionary decompressed is 364M < 1177132084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still pretty small. < 1177132216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1177132233 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I can use it now though < 1177132276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using find. < 1177132282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ls & grep. < 1177132291 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no < 1177132295 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a single xml file < 1177132309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grep, then. < 1177132317 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't work < 1177132328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not to my knowledge < 1177132419 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could write a script < 1177132524 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read line by line, searching the ... lines, scan ahead to the , display until < 1177132562 0 :RProgrammer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177132587 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a HTML parser in CL if you want < 1177132597 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't need a full parser < 1177132603 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its not a full parser :P < 1177132730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need an XML parser, anyways. < 1177132763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SGML != XML) < 1177132818 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't need a parser at all < 1177132965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177133213 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.11/2007031202]" < 1177133859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fantastic, it doesn't work < 1177134650 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking python < 1177134685 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a caching sort of bug in file._i < 1177134690 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file.__iter__ < 1177135026 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it works < 1177135139 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda slow, about 5 seconds for a search < 1177135168 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how close the word is to the top < 1177135467 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too impressive < 1177136383 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177138605 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :operator < 1177139005 0 :operator!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fax < 1177142399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177142400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177148430 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-108-16.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177148767 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177149116 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177151532 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177153461 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-97.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177154635 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177160208 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1177170230 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177174004 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-045-059.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177174276 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177174700 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177174764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177175179 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1177177177 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177179966 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177180048 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines the cartoon parkland scene from Mary Poppins, but with the music _Poisoning Pigeons in the Park_ < 1177181386 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177181457 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1177181684 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177181989 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1177185699 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177186107 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177189605 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177189616 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177191127 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177191977 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177194750 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177194750 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177194764 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177194764 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-97.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177194929 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177196010 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177196563 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177196612 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177196944 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177197998 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_File_System < 1177198047 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could mix pathnames with logic statements < 1177198066 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :path/name/here + other/path/here < 1177198087 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all the set operations. < 1177198108 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... some recursive ones... or something < 1177199028 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177199994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177200970 0 :xtofs!n=joris@185.111-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1177200975 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1177200990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1177201022 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any functional esoteric languages ? < 1177201029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few. < 1177201039 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not shockingly) < 1177201045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda, Lazy K < 1177201063 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lambda calculus with full blown higer order functions closures first class environements ? < 1177201068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iota and Jot < 1177201077 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool i look into those < 1177201086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually those i mentioned are combinator calculus < 1177201204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure there are some more lambda like but i haven't paid much attention to them < 1177201204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is one called Lambda, should be a safe bet < 1177201215 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to implement something realy cool in like the minimum lines of codes :) < 1177201351 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda seems verry nice :) < 1177201357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck my languages end up so complex i never get them implemented :) < 1177201398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is < 1177201458 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have writen a language but it not realy a hard one < 1177201467 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i just change the syntax :) < 1177201550 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who of you like postscript ? < 1177201575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscript is not bad < 1177201603 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dictionary stack is something i had not seen before < 1177201630 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it is that shocking but manipulate it is quite cool < 1177201648 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it? < 1177201667 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dictionary stack ? < 1177201692 0 :BigBoom!n=Ninja@71-81-124-239.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177201695 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bindings of your variables and where to look them up < 1177201780 0 :hans!n=joris@185.111-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1177201782 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1177201787 0 :hans!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bla < 1177201793 0 :bla!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :xtofss < 1177201803 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of binding structure I would probably use. < 1177201809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it means dynamically scoped variables < 1177201816 0 :BigBoom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177201834 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan hmm not nessasarly < 1177201847 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just keep your environment arround :) < 1177201873 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you want to evaluate a function in a specific environment you push it on and call the function < 1177201885 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when its done you save it < 1177201936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are environments passed by reference? otherwise you won't get proper closures for mutable variables < 1177201985 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1177202028 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you have a chose but when you take a environment and pop it of its not a copy < 1177202055 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some kind of evaluation of it what that might mean :) < 1177202096 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who has his own language here ? < 1177202126 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION raises hand < 1177202193 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link ? < 1177202273 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written one i can run on my mobile phone :) < 1177202326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think someone mentioned something like that here once < 1177202338 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... lemme find the source of one. < 1177202348 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly enough, I have very few of the interpreters on disk. < 1177202395 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:CakeProphet has the full list... but not all of them are implemented. < 1177202431 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only one I can find of Dupdog is in some illegible compiled Perl stuff. < 1177202531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is my incomplete Haskell one < 1177202541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never finishes anything < 1177202579 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a broken one in Python. < 1177202587 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "original", if you will. < 1177202792 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177202835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/Dupdog.hs + FingerTree.hs. You can in theory use it if you can put the right functions together... < 1177203066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, i _did_ finish Malbolge Unshackled. Too bad no one has written any programs in it. < 1177203109 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177203226 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so... how do you optimize the duplication part? < 1177203237 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do reverse with a flag... but what about duplicate? < 1177203285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using the FingerTree module which implements lazily concatenated sequences < 1177203399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is the same as Data.Sequence, but less restricted) < 1177203430 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< how about in Python? < 1177203539 0 :xtofss!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177203590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you could do such a structure with some simpler kind of tree, you need duplication, push and pop at both ends < 1177203658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple class Concatenated(sub1,sub2) < 1177203701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and purely functional push and pop < 1177203743 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of optimization can be had by using specialized data structured instead of raw byte-moving < 1177203775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main point is that most of the duplicated parts should be shared < 1177203869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you don't need push for Dupdog... < 1177203970 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reverse and pop < 1177203974 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..and duplicate < 1177203976 0 :fax!n=user@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177203985 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1177204005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening < 1177204126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then your classes need methods popStart and popEnd that return a tuple containing the popped element and an object representing the remainder < 1177204149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and empty < 1177204200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Concatenated class recurses on the relevant subpart < 1177204444 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm... reverse lookup is hard to handle with tree concatenation < 1177204462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what reverse lookup? < 1177204484 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use a reverse flag to signify that the source has been reversed. < 1177204521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is why you want both popStart and popEnd (or pop(direction)) < 1177204593 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> but with a tree you need to recurse the entire tree to get the very last character < 1177204634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must recurse in any case unless you use the very clever FingerTree stuff < 1177204662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe that works by rebalancing the tree so the ends are always shallow < 1177204693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however as i understand duplication gives a log(n) overhead anyway < 1177204741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as for lookup in a naive tree < 1177204858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i am concerned that is still a big improvement over n when n is the size of an exponentially growing data structure < 1177204880 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177204906 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177204908 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :na[zZz]gjunk < 1177205086 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: have you found an x86 person? < 1177205206 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a painful concept < 1177205468 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think the main rationale for using trees in memory. < 1177205471 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1177205491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1177205551 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... I know how I'll do it. < 1177205559 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using trees at all < 1177205566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1177206197 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll show you when I finish it. < 1177208152 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip64-75-241-206.aloha.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177208179 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, like this: http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/4478 < 1177208185 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(untested dupdog interpreter) < 1177208361 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....and now with a bug fix :) < 1177208648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that works. < 1177208703 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone tell me a stupider title than this? < 1177208708 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inventors turn creations into cash" < 1177208711 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1177208717 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! < 1177208724 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1177208735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are popping off both ends all the time < 1177208743 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me? < 1177208753 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177208774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, SevenInchBread < 1177208777 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thutu? When did that happen? < 1177208796 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both Thubi and /// are mentioned in the first paragraph! I'm famous! < 1177208797 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1177208881 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1177208888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea which paragraph ihope is referring to < 1177208894 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.DamnInteresting.com is pretty well designed < 1177208909 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that of the wiki page on Thutu. < 1177208980 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah... I might need to change the self.indlist.pop(0) part based on the revflag < 1177209016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am afraid it will not work, because the popping should be at only one end too < 1177209081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially i think the tree will creep back in < 1177209087 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1177209091 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plans for a flying saucer < 1177209164 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1177209178 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck sells jet engines for $35? < 1177209183 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nope... the popping needs to be reversed to. < 1177209209 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1177209212 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$20 < 1177209249 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1177209253 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's blue prints < 1177209254 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177209266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: and i think the IndexError is wrong too, because there is no reason why the end of a duplicated part should be either end of the original source < 1177209326 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah... it would just be one end. < 1177209356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have pops off both ends before a duplication < 1177209391 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1177209397 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found plans for DIY jet engine < 1177209405 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be neat to build your own flying saucer? < 1177209407 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177209430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a flying teapot! < 1177209435 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a duplication just saves the current index... because that's all you need to mimic a duplication... however... you may be right about IndexError being the wrong way to check for when we've reached a duplicated part. < 1177209440 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equipped with blinking LEDs, and sound-track from sci-fi, of course < 1177209485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the duplication needs to save the index for both ends. < 1177209507 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both? < 1177209521 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last index is always.... the last index of the source code. < 1177209538 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any physics majors here? < 1177209548 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...probably not. < 1177209578 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but you do see where I'm going with this right? < 1177209608 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I built a cone like /\ < 1177209617 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blew into the /\ bottom with jets < 1177209622 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it produce lift? < 1177209640 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be something like a hot air balloon. < 1177209640 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and lift evenly, provided it's a decently even cone?) < 1177209656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you want to save indexes instead of trees. < 1177209658 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a hole in it ? < 1177209661 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ \ < 1177209663 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ like that < 1177209668 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ \ < 1177209676 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant / \ < 1177209683 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the top? < 1177209685 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah... a hole wouldn't allow for as much force. < 1177209686 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1177209696 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait probably not actually < 1177209713 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it'd do enough for at least a hover craft < 1177209720 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from air cushioning < 1177209732 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically... firing a jew engine against a cone would be like.... blowing EXTREMLY HARD into a big bag. < 1177209733 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know if it'd work for real flying < 1177209742 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a jew engine? < 1177209752 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....hahahaha < 1177209758 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best typo ever < 1177209791 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1177209796 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I spin the engines < 1177209802 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1177209812 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-/\- < 1177209816 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ring holding code < 1177209817 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cone < 1177209830 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with engines sucking air from above and blowing into the cone < 1177209846 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spin the ring < 1177209858 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd make a gyroscopic sort of stability, right? < 1177209925 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not be a fast form of transport, but imagine flying your gf above say, NY and having everyone think you're aliens :P < 1177209935 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1177210084 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ring holding code! < 1177210108 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also. < 1177210111 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: "hatful" < 1177210232 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I corrected that one :P < 1177210233 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh alright < 1177210244 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1177210292 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hahahahaha < 1177210294 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let me be the first to say that the prospect of drunk fliers crashing into my roof is enough to be thankful that we can not have one of these craft as easily as we can go out and buy a car." < 1177210329 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... we don't want people FUI (fooey!) < 1177210429 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=6-3lQ4L_36c < 1177210579 0 :RainbowTrout!n=chatzill@12.178.87.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177211308 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1177211320 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know Irrlicht is the German word for "Will-o-the-wisp"? < 1177211772 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1177211779 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D Harmonic minor < 1177211834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION somehow never considered D Harmonic minor an ooh subject < 1177211893 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad :P < 1177211912 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tonalcentre.org/Harmminchords.mid C harmonic minor! < 1177211969 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fourier series! < 1177211978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1177212698 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177215553 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.11/2007031202]" < 1177216102 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177216863 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177218290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177218359 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177224888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177228799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177228800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177228813 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-10-161.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177232518 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177233669 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177234176 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177235501 0 :na[zZz]gjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nazgjunk < 1177236230 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-103-77.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177236573 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-182-225.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177237353 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177247309 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"i really have to get off irc for now, if i don't write this stuff i won't pass my exams >.<" < 1177250292 0 :xtofs!n=joris@16.207-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1177252138 0 :xtofs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177255457 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177255841 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"back to school shit" < 1177256840 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177262482 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177262497 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177262544 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177262552 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177262606 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177262611 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177263900 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177265171 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177266262 0 :_jol_!n=_@77.192.38.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177266297 0 :_jol_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177274072 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177276027 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177276570 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177276775 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that anyone who is unable to use SPaG on usenet or similar is a retarded 12-year-old. Am I a bad person? < 1177276843 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's spag? < 1177276868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know. how do you use Society for the Promotion of Adventure Games on Usenet? < 1177276888 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar" < 1177276889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177276903 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1177276925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're retarded, they don't have to be 12 years old. < 1177276957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, synchronicity, i just read Mark CC's review of a kook's book with really bad language < 1177277050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you consider _really_ severe dyslexia retarded... (so bad that you cannot even say if your spell checker's suggestions are correct) < 1177279034 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1177279178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: don't you know how to disconnect one of your nicks? < 1177279288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise that I was logged in as pikhq_ until I saw pikhq time out. < 1177279303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1177279442 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177279680 0 :atrapado!i=opened@47.Red-81-47-5.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177281736 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177281913 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1177283255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Beryl. . . < 1177283633 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Saliendo" < 1177283737 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION *stab* beryl and beryl users < 1177284166 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177284586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shines as he dies < 1177284808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177284825 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177288361 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Beryl? < 1177288383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beryl 0.2.1. . . < 1177288420 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I like how it's a SPECIFIC Beryl. < 1177288433 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he knew how to make GUI stuff. < 1177288443 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd make an AWESOME windowing system. < 1177288456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do some plugins to Beryl. < 1177288465 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO I SHALL HEAR NONE OF IT < 1177288473 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT TELL ME ABOUT ITS EXTENSIBILITY... I SHALL MAKE MY OWN < 1177288492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN BRAINFUCK? < 1177288505 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1177288515 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....where would you start, if I may ask? < 1177288532 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers the default KigDos window managed < 1177288542 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/d$/r/ < 1177288620 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177288632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd start by implementing PESOIX. < 1177288729 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177288974 0 :ShadowHntr!i=sentinel@wikipedia/Shadowhntr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177289196 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the esoteric window manager would be < 1177289581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrainfuckWM. < 1177289585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1177289609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which could be done if one just implements PESOIX and adds on a networking namespace. < 1177289910 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts a curse on all who put right-to-left markers in their nicknames < 1177289912 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastards < 1177290997 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On IRC? < 1177291037 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1177291617 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that? < 1177291652 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :i < 1177291657 0 :i!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177291664 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're sure? < 1177291682 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :i < 1177291685 0 :i!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177292406 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177293321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really ought to try that < 1177294520 0 :ShadowHntr!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177295970 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177297384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177298934 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzz < 1177299158 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177300246 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177301139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1177303585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177304516 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177312393 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177314713 0 :jix!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177315199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177315200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177316186 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177316759 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177327030 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177328768 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177329248 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177330214 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177331961 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177332036 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177334410 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@c-75-70-172-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177334418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177335594 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177335883 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177336370 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1177338260 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177340131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177342586 0 :Gu1ll4um3r0m41n!i=Gu1ll4um@AReims-152-1-166-191.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177342601 0 :Gu1ll4um3r0m41n!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177344083 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177346787 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-151.w86-204.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177346902 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177347154 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177347597 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177350461 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177350681 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-186-017.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177350707 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177356019 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177356531 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1177356820 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177357333 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1177357603 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1177364375 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177365113 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177365674 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177366969 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177375151 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177375568 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread! < 1177375571 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, never mind. < 1177376061 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread! < 1177376078 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, I just enthusiastic(al)ly yelled that a few minutes ago. < 1177376975 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleh < 1177379403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177382567 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1177385088 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177385157 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1177387560 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177387822 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177391175 0 :zazen!i=PJIRCWeb@70-41-92-107.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177391188 0 :zazen!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177391681 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177391796 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177392818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177395041 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177398417 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177398463 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177401599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177401600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177403933 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177410544 0 :helios24_!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177410584 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177410681 0 :helios24_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177410782 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177411648 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177413676 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177413721 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177416561 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177416841 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177416950 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177419369 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-181-238.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177419405 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177433085 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-37.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177436907 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1177438863 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalalalalalalalalalala < 1177439469 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laloo < 1177439734 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best material for nylon-core bass strings for a guitar? < 1177440314 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nylon < 1177441559 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-151-194-108.range81-151.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177441602 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177441606 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1177441619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not < 1177441621 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean no < 1177441626 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nylon. < 1177441633 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong ansewr. < 1177441636 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean answer. < 1177442256 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177442266 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops again. < 1177442278 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help EgoBot < 1177442321 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1177444448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177444583 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177448204 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177448417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if EgoBot is banned. < 1177448963 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1177448972 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody ever got back to me on why I was K-lined. < 1177448976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have to assume it was EgoBot. < 1177448982 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with no further information, there's not much I can do. < 1177449008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could throttle it harder... < 1177449122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you have no record of it sending any dubious messages... < 1177449141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even any bad protocol commands. < 1177449171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any chance the ban could have been caused by another person sharing ISPs? < 1177449186 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was on my hostname. < 1177449202 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my IP (and thereby hostname) haven't changed for months. < 1177449430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are here on that hostname, so i take the k-line was lifted. < 1177449516 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I emailed them. The guy who responded lifted the K-line, but wouldn't tell me anything about why it was there. < 1177449973 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-181-238.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177450556 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177450722 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177452053 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177452107 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177452602 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177453190 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177453210 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177455600 0 :CakeProphet__!n=CakeProp@h164.251.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177455636 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177455638 0 :CakeProphet__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1177456111 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1177457978 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177460518 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SevenInchBread < 1177463994 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread! < 1177464241 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177465231 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177465725 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah! Darn Google Groups. < 1177465924 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily enough, I can get this down in three sentences. < 1177465942 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you think I should remove the special scope-reassignment of functions with assignment in Plof? < 1177465970 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It occurs to me that I'm not actually using function reassignment much, and it may be more confusing than it's worth. < 1177465973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1177465985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I didn't know that was *there*. . . < 1177465989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haw < 1177465992 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is this: < 1177466016 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var someObject = :[ /* content */ ]; someObject.newFunction = :{ /* this function will run in someObject's scope, not this one */ }; < 1177466040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1177466055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, that's actually useful. < 1177466058 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the side effect is that I can't do things like: < 1177466067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be nice to use a different syntax, though. < 1177466070 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var a = (x as function):{ var x2 = x; x2(); }; < 1177466089 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As x2 would have a different scope than x was intended to be called in) < 1177466104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var someObject = someObject : :[newFunction = :{ /* Here's your function. */ }]; < 1177466116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1177466121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove the var bit. < 1177466140 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would have the same effect, but would change someObject, which would be bad if you had child objects of it. < 1177466203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1177466226 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the dilemma? :) < 1177466231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.\ < 1177466290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someObject.newFunction = someObject.:{};? < 1177466306 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1177466317 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explicitly specifying the scope of an object at definition time. < 1177466327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It *may* work. < 1177466477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't parse very cleanly with that syntax, but that's solvable. < 1177466502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a matter of getting a parsable syntax for it, after all. . . < 1177466527 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just needs more colons ;) < 1177466550 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someObject.newFunction = someObject:::{...}; < 1177466551 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177466558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1177466562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overkill, no? < 1177467345 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, hmmm.. so what's the problem now? < 1177467364 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: Just syntax. < 1177467437 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it's pretty clear what it does.. < 1177467453 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assigns a function to a variable in a different scope... < 1177467491 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someObject.:{}; is difficult to parse as it is, since '.' and '{' are at the same precedence. < 1177467509 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to figure out what to change to get syntax something like that without making parsing any more complex. < 1177467512 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean obj.func = :{blah} < 1177467516 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1177467519 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem there is this: < 1177467528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var a = (x as function):{ var x2 = x; x2(); }; < 1177467554 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's that do? < 1177467563 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the question ;) < 1177467572 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't familiar with the syntax. < 1177467572 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, x2() would be the same as x(). < 1177467588 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the problem is that that would reassign the scope. < 1177467599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in that case, you don't want to reassign the scope. < 1177467602 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... well.... what kind of scoping is it? global-by-default? < 1177467615 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ... what? < 1177467628 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean.... in what scope is x2 < 1177467645 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the current convention, x is in the scope that it was defined, and x2 is in the scope of function a. < 1177467658 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay... Pythonesque? < 1177467677 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... not really :P < 1177467690 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... variables are implicitly local, or am I wrong? < 1177467706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have the scope in which they were defined. < 1177467714 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1177467727 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget that we DECLARE our variables here. :) < 1177467837 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... if you have a direct reference to the object... would it be much of a problem what scope you're in? < 1177467850 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might be misinterpreting the semantics... but eh. < 1177467941 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to make a function be in a prototype object, the function as-declared will not have a direct reference to the object upon which it is run. < 1177467989 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.... I see.... so you need a sort of implicit way to add members/attributes/whatever to the prototype. < 1177468000 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1177468010 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, that's easy because the scope will be reassigned. < 1177468017 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it causes problems elsewhere. < 1177468073 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....could go with a good ol' self < 1177468106 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self being the scope from which the function was accessed.... maybe? < 1177468149 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, if I call someObject.foo(), I'm calling it from a scope which would not be an appropriate 'self' ... < 1177468161 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes swapping methods between objects easier.... since self always refers to the containing scope for that function. < 1177468183 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean.... make self implicitly the object from which foo was accessed < 1177468190 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case... it would be someObject. < 1177468200 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....not sure how you would program that to make sense though < 1177468230 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that solves the base problem :P < 1177468252 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, NOT SURE I KNOW THE BASE PROBLEM :) < 1177468309 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var a = (x as function):{ var x2 = x; x2(); }; // as Plof is currently designed, this is useless, and worse, an equivalent can't be easily defined. < 1177468338 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't understand the syntax... what's the colon for? < 1177468355 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry about that, just know that it's a function accepting a function as an argument. < 1177468406 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... that's what's going on? < 1177468438 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's then assigning that function to its own variable, x2. But by the current definition, that changes the scope in which x2 will be run, so x2 won't work (as expected). < 1177468470 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the alternative makes adding functions to prototypes not work well. < 1177468485 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem sems to be.... you have a fairly simple way to designate where variables are READ... but not a clear way ro specify where they're WRITTEN. < 1177468516 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............................. what? < 1177468569 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> wait... doesn't declarations fix that? < 1177468620 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177468625 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just find where the variable is declare... and that's the scope to assign it to? < 1177468627 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the problem that you think is the problem is the problem X-P < 1177468641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what's done right now. < 1177468641 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.... the colon thing is probably throwing me off. < 1177468665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............................. OK, so I'll remove the colon, it's functionally equivalent :P < 1177468674 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var a = (x as function){ var x2 = x; x2(); }; < 1177468679 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....but what does it DO god damnit < 1177468685 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure what that does. < 1177468692 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irrelevant what it does in this case X_X < 1177468704 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to add to the confusion of trying to discuss a totally unrelated problem. < 1177468721 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> if I don't get the syntax... I can't decipher what's going on... < 1177468741 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that example means nothing to me right now < 1177468751 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no colons in that example! :P < 1177468770 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it "the colon thing" you don't understand, or the syntax in general? < 1177468818 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......the whole thing, apparently. < 1177468827 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out the colon thing... thin and thick functions right? < 1177468858 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....now I just don't know what that means... you've defined an anonymous function next to a type casted function? < 1177468895 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait.... do function calls require parenthesis? If not.... then you're calling (x as function) with {stuff} as the only argument, yes? < 1177468924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, i think he is defining a function with one argument, x < 1177468933 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears. < 1177468940 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like oerjan said. < 1177468962 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1177468964 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1177468973 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the (x as function) is part of the signature. < 1177468976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1177468986 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was... something being evaluated just before the lambda. < 1177469003 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SENSE HAS BEEN MADE < 1177469007 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1177469035 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, when I assign x to x2, x2 gets the content of the function, but the scope when called will be different. < 1177469053 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah.... dynamic scoping? < 1177469081 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. And it was necessary for me to do that for adding functions to objects to work properly. < 1177469081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is bizarre. < 1177469086 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has a nasty side-effect :( < 1177469106 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to have lexical functions and dynamic functions? < 1177469115 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have lexical variables and dynamic variables perhaps? < 1177469121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language without lexical scoping is not Properly Functional (TM) < 1177469143 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it does... you can define var in function. < 1177469150 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... I see the problem. < 1177469164 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variables that are undefined in the function are... basically dynamically gotten. < 1177469170 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default scope of a function is the scope in which it was defined, e.g. lexical scoping. < 1177469180 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, as a functional language, Plof is Ridiculously Impure (TM). < 1177469181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is how to refer to variables of the current object. < 1177469193 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1177469204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something self-like might be cleaner. < 1177469213 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....haha, that's what I suggested once. < 1177469223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was repeating < 1177469235 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /Getting/ self would be nasty at best. < 1177469240 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the interpreter) < 1177469253 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think having lexically defined or dynamically defined variables would be interesting. < 1177469263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the python solution seems to work well. < 1177469281 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it would work well in plof < 1177469287 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... it has its problems. < 1177469290 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really comparable. < 1177469294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't necessarily mean all of it. < 1177469313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the part about binding functions to methods with the x.f construction < 1177469317 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... you can't assign arbitrary functions to a Python object and expect them to work like methods. < 1177469348 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is something that is done a lot in plof < 1177469351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can do it to a class < 1177469361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof has no classes. < 1177469388 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... wouldn't work out well..... hmmm... how does IO fix this dilemma? < 1177469392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the problem is you might want to access unbound methods too < 1177469450 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function that doesn't access self is effectively unbound < 1177469465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, simply have an assignment that tags a function as a method. < 1177469501 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., an assignment operator which changes scope. < 1177469512 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh.... for some reason it doesn't sound necessarily. < 1177469526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of the scope just the self < 1177469526 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like there's a really simple way to just make it all work with one assignment operator. < 1177469560 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't all assignments with functions treat functions as methods? < 1177469583 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: As it is, functions defined within an object have a parent scope of the object, and so 'self' is unnecessary. It would be confusing for adjunct methods to require 'self', but internal methods not to. Also, it would mean you couldn't copy a method from one object to another. < 1177469594 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's basically what Ruby does... a function is a method that simply never refers to self. < 1177469641 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... you do an explicit self. < 1177469648 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*could < 1177469657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, but i think it would be problematic in any case. what if you copy to an object that has a different set of fields, some of which have the same name as globals? < 1177469659 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... meh... < 1177469675 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I may have to *sigh* < 1177469698 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem with making anonymous functions bound to the scope they get assigned to? < 1177469708 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... oh... well < 1177469711 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... that would be weird < 1177469716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you then don't get closures. < 1177469718 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var a = (x as function){ var x2 = x; x2(); }; < 1177469729 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ That's the problem with it :) < 1177469773 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand... wouldn't x2 be called in the scope of the "module" (or whatever plof calls it) < 1177469799 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... x2 is called in the scope of the function assigned to a. < 1177469842 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has access to... the global scope in which a is defined, right? < 1177469856 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. But 'x' was presumably defined in some other scope. < 1177469864 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And will be expecting variables from it. < 1177469875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this resembles the lisp mess with lambda vs. function, doesn't it? < 1177469914 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not familiar with that particular mess ... not very familiar with LISP. < 1177469932 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm..... if x2 is lexically scoped, what's the problem? < 1177469937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda is dynamically scoped, function is lexical, i think < 1177469946 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you said they were lexically scoped... anyways) < 1177469947 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: x2 was assigned x. < 1177469965 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah < 1177469966 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SevenInchBread: So x2 will be called with a's scope, rather than x's scope. However, the function is still x. < 1177470000 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... the interpreter would make no distinction between literal lambda assignment and variably expanded assignment. < 1177470005 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1177470043 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so, what's the difference between thin and thick functions again? < 1177470060 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you return from a function, it falls through all the thin functions and returns from the nearest thick function. < 1177470085 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......??? < 1177470100 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1177470106 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no blocks but functions. But if you do: < 1177470114 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a return in a thin function...... returns from the thin function it's defined in. < 1177470119 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... thick < 1177470119 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1177470126 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so you can do things like return in an if statement < 1177470131 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1177470140 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you're really passing 'if' a function. < 1177470141 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... sounds hackish to me... but eh. < 1177470154 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is hackish, but it's not as bad as what I had in Plof1 :P < 1177470164 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the intersection between functional and imperative programming X_X < 1177470180 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you maybe do return if(whatever, {blah;blah;blah;return x}, {return whatever}); < 1177470196 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have the if statement return the return value of the executed function. < 1177470209 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you only want one side of the if to return? < 1177470227 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, ah. < 1177470239 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, intersection between functional and imperative :) < 1177470259 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought thick and thin functions were something like ios blocks and methods.... < 1177470266 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which largely fixes its scoping dillemma < 1177470290 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're sort of similar, but far more interchangeable. < 1177470320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you make it so only thick functions get reassigned scope? < 1177470349 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... basically what if you make thin functions dynamical and thick functions lexical. :) < 1177470363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the other way around < 1177470374 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er, maybe... I don't quite remember. < 1177470387 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var a = (x as thick):{ var x2 = x; x2(); }; // why shouldn't this work? < 1177470419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a thick function becomes a method... < 1177470460 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... typecasting thin and thick functions sounds like tricky business. < 1177470463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have automatic conversion between them. < 1177470509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x as thin) would mean, don't reassign scope for x < 1177470528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it would also mean that it's a thin function X_X < 1177470562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but encapsulation is trivial < 1177470595 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...heh, more importantly... why would you do that? < 1177470624 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that example.... or is it just as a "doesn't it just make sense that it should work this way" example. < 1177470629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we take the smalltalk option that return can only return from methods... < 1177470665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to make this distinction between "methods" and "functions," especially since there are plenty of global functions that return. < 1177470705 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay yeah... you want thick and thin functions to be largely interchangable thanks to type conversion < 1177470728 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs himself to sleep. < 1177470786 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh.... this is nothing.... I had the insane idea of defining list-splits, attribute-access, and function calls with the same operator. < 1177470824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespace overloading anyone? < 1177470831 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object attribute (called series of list (items with (subcalls)) huge parsing dillemma) < 1177470903 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then I realized how stupid that would be < 1177470911 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then stole io's syntax. < 1177470981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that resembles some thoughts i have been having on ALPACA's syntax < 1177471009 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's possible.... < 1177471016 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have explicit parenthesis for function calls < 1177471019 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....but I didn't < 1177471038 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was... quite strictly... "all functions are one argumented" < 1177471047 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, one or zero argumented < 1177471097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do know about combinatory logic, right? < 1177471106 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1177471141 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simplified things quite muchly with good-ol comma-separate lists. < 1177471172 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Smalltalkian keyword selector stuff. < 1177471266 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[do stuff to things] if (x > 3) else [do (other stuff) to things] ....although if I figure out some crazy way to unify expressions with functions... I can make it look like < 1177471282 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(do stuff to things) if (x > 3) else (do (other stuff) to things) < 1177471376 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....actually I just figured out how... but it's a little unintuitive to explain the semantics. < 1177471382 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax looks sleek and sexy though < 1177471615 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have expression wrapped up in an expression object of sorts.... and if the message isn't defined on the expression, the expression is evaluated and it gets sent to the returned object. < 1177471628 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super-laziness.... only evaluated WHEN NECESSARY < 1177471664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you let obj meth = meth obj, (i.e. objects applied to things reversely apply them back) and use currying, then attribute access and function application _can_ have the same syntax. < 1177471732 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of does. < 1177471821 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are objects that accept one message, and puts it into the source code. < 1177471839 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er rather... places it iin the executioon scope. < 1177471847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you interpret (a b c) as \f. f a b c, then you can make lists of attributes interpolate < 1177471873 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... since lists are single messages... (you, can, pass, multiple, arguments) < 1177471901 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazily evaluated arguments... at that... < 1177471950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, are we talking about the same thing? < 1177471958 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not really < 1177471960 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1177471970 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is an object! < 1177471970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was describing my ideas about ALPACA. < 1177471974 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we talking about? < 1177471979 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1177472027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPACA conditions, suitably generalized, sort of look like a list of attributes applied iteratively. < 1177472043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes a function argument gets thrown in. < 1177472066 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not sure I follow < 1177472098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ^ is an attribute to find the cell above the current one < 1177472208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i don't think the original ALPACA allows you to iterate them - you have to stay within the 8-cell neighborhood. < 1177472224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is what i mean by suitably generalized. < 1177472234 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make creating objects suitably convient... because I think you could do a lot of nifty stuff with constructions... instead of the typical return-the-desired-value-immediately thing. < 1177472267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*convenient < 1177472289 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like (x + 1) if (x > 3) will return a structure of sorts that works like a typical expression... but with an added else method. < 1177472318 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the next message is defined on the expression... it's execute... otherwise the expression is evaluated and the message delegated to the return. < 1177472328 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... if you did... < 1177472343 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$hello = (x + 1) if (x > 3) < 1177472348 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could then do < 1177472361 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello else 3 < 1177472367 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just as easily hello + 53 < 1177472389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how lazy is haskell? < 1177472407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty lazy < 1177472448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is guaranteed to behave as if nothing is evaluated until it is needed. < 1177472448 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177472494 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmmm... does it preserve the evaluation... so it only evaluated once instead of everytime it's needed? < 1177472518 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is something needed? < 1177472518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any reasonable implementation yes < 1177472543 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177472552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although evaluating it _every_time_ happens to be equivalent except in speed, so strictly speaking that is legal too < 1177472555 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how you define the lanauge.... in the case of Sophia... it's whenever a message is passed to it. < 1177472670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell a value is needed when it is investigated by something that is itself needed. < 1177472705 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177472731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a function call f x is needed, the function f will be. x may or may not be. < 1177472801 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... so nothing is evaluated until something that is being evaluated needs it to be evaluated in order for it itself to be evaluated? < 1177472817 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I worded that strangely. < 1177472838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, starting from the Main.main function, which is the only thing automatically needed. < 1177472864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or from whatever you give interactively if using a repl < 1177472987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, main is evaluated to an IO action, which is performed, which may cause further evaluations. < 1177472998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1177473095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are however a couple of functions to get around lazy evaluation. < 1177473152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq a b pretends to need a, evaluating it, then evaluates b and returns it. < 1177473184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f $! x = seq x (f x) < 1177473319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can annotate record fields with ! so that they are automatically evaluated when the whole record is. < 1177473944 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177477042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177479553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177484415 0 :FunnyMan3595!n=funnyman@198.147.197.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177484634 0 :FunnyMan3595!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177485559 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177486783 0 :fax!i=usr21415@80.193.211.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177486799 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1177487262 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1177487407 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177487999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177488000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177489356 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177492921 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177493615 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177497136 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177497137 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177497280 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177497280 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80-162.cust.umeaenergi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177499347 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177499356 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177506644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177506663 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177510272 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hav drewn a pikcher: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/art/langs.png < 1177510619 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it!!!! < 1177510634 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats going on my wall as soon as I fing a printer < 1177510753 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, ok < 1177510781 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They vary between the languages themselves and their stereotypical users < 1177510805 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl and Java are based on people I know. < 1177510832 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do APL and stuff < 1177510833 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1177510862 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about epigram < 1177510869 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure what they should look like < 1177510884 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL is an anarchist < 1177510969 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow epigram looks interesting < 1177511008 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one of the main developers, otherwise I would not know about it. < 1177511045 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend learning Haskell, then learning the GADT extension to haskell before trying to tackle Epigram. < 1177511075 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a LOGO interpreter in haskell < 1177511080 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its the only program I wrote < 1177511607 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :online anywhere? < 1177511625 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that you can write that as your first program shows what a poerful language Haskell it :-P < 1177511629 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1177511683 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is < 1177511703 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fax.twilightcoders.net/files/LOGO.zip < 1177511709 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think its awful code < 1177511733 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 sec < 1177511740 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the usermanual http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/449/logovz4.png < 1177511838 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177512005 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got really pissed off with the state of implementations of scheme < 1177512015 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& went on a rampage & wrote this < 1177512029 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in scheme48 I could use glut but not networking at the same time < 1177512113 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177512427 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks great < 1177512436 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1177512446 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you got a head-start as you knew scheme and the libraries you were using < 1177512473 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use {;} much. maybe once every few hundred lines to fit something all on one line < 1177512548 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have said "type M = ReaderT (Map String Float, Map String Function)" < 1177512549 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno I think that I wrote really bad haskell because I dont have any exp like writing things well < 1177512557 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whats that for? < 1177512600 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M is what? < 1177512610 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh variables and functions < 1177512666 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you knw about monad transformers? < 1177512679 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :[ < 1177512695 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to write a monad so I could make the turtle move 20 pixels per second < 1177512697 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I gave up by then < 1177512702 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ill do it sometime < 1177512867 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M would allow you to have the current bindings available without haveing to explicitly pass them around so much < 1177512889 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a tutorial about making a lisp interpreter that explains that sort of thing < 1177512908 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah I skimmed the tutorial, I think ill read that properly then < 1177512927 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its this? < 1177512927 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://halogen.note.amherst.edu/~jdtang/scheme_in_48/tutorial/overview.html < 1177513129 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbs < 1177513351 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-050-169.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177513673 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177513898 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1177513964 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with colonising other planets via STL means is that if you can build the damn colony ships there is no point sending them out of Earth orbit. < 1177514303 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION back < 1177514420 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177514482 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177514490 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1177515414 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177515445 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Daily WTF is launching OMGWTF -- "The Olympiad of Misguided Geeks at Worse Than Failure Programming Contest" < 1177515585 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177516031 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177517834 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177519185 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177519402 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-102-150.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177519912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177520080 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177520081 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177520081 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1177520083 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1177520084 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@bylands.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177520086 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177520307 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177522025 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177523563 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177523581 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177534871 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177537121 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177537639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: those _are_ horns on the Cobol guy, right? < 1177537670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to be a mix of the Scheme, Intercal and Epigram guy < 1177539227 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1177539243 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1177539249 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just has a bad combover < 1177539264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :D < 1177539554 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177539771 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177539802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1177540155 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177540194 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177544143 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177544786 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1177546749 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177547174 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177547996 0 :goban!n=goban@ip68-107-157-108.hr.hr.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177549849 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e^ < 1177549859 0 :e^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e < 1177549885 0 :e!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1177549937 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e_tothe_[pi_i] < 1177550338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be so negative. < 1177550612 0 :e_tothe_[pi_i]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177550827 0 :e_tothe_[pi_i]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1177551608 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1177552609 0 :SevenInchBread!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177555798 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez < 1177555806 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk is practically a superset of C < 1177556545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk has pointers? < 1177556588 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....? < 1177556768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, it doesn't look more similar to C than to anything else vaguely C-like < 1177556910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, i believe it is somewhere between C and perl, historically. < 1177556950 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no pointers < 1177556995 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1177557001 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177557026 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177557544 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177557569 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177557684 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah, lisp always wins < 1177557722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone asks about pronouns in if statements, and someone gives a few lines of CL macro to do exactly that < 1177557744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1177557804 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/00-02-149 < 1177558813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177560586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177560641 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177562256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"fnord" < 1177574399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177574400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177582923 0 :jix__!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177589175 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177593166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177593621 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177596686 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-232-118.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177598516 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177605655 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-73-92.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177612344 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177612965 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177613000 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177618671 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177618717 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177621572 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-129-123-74.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177621779 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiet, isn't it? < 1177621795 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the time difference wot does it. < 1177621918 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's noon in the US, at present. < 1177621920 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1177621925 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all are at work. < 1177621934 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for them. < 1177622957 0 :fax!i=usr42268@80.193.211.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177622959 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1177622986 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hello. < 1177623019 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⣓⣚⣝⣵⣩⣸⣾⣾⡿⡳⡩⡸⡬⡦⡽⡢⣴ <-- braillefuck program to print 99 bottles of beer on the wall song < 1177623688 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said that common lisps format string was turing complete < 1177623692 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has goto < 1177623706 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(complete without using // or whatver to call lisp functions that is) < 1177623739 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use goto to make quasi-functions anyway. < 1177623763 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can kind of imagine how < 1177623770 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& it has a conditional operator < 1177623794 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not really sure how you might do anything with it but ill probably try at some point < 1177623817 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quasi because they dont take parameters? < 1177624204 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they're not much use < 1177624209 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177624213 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the thought that counts. < 1177625778 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1177626757 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177627639 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177628351 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp's string format is terrible < 1177628373 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think its impossible < 1177628374 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1177628392 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjd suggested writing the output to the input, which would work really nicley < 1177628401 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could do a function call with an infinite number of parameters :/ < 1177628413 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course with applicative order, cant happen :/ < 1177628424 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applicative order evaluation*- < 1177628431 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think ill give u p < 1177628439 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called streams < 1177628444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and already exists. < 1177628464 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I mean like you can use ~? to use the next argument as a format string < 1177628481 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :streams wouldnt be helpful in this situation < 1177628485 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sadly) < 1177628502 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177628515 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, alloca(3) < 1177628520 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know you could do that < 1177628917 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1177629440 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177629954 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write format in format < 1177629978 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont think its turing complete without ~// < 1177629982 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e..g calling back into lip < 1177629984 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp* < 1177630049 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have sequence, conditionals, and repitition? < 1177630066 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1177630100 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's turing complete < 1177630111 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude I dunno < 1177630116 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe but I think possibly not < 1177630795 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about unbounded storage? < 1177630811 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a resizeable string < 1177630820 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it as a parameter as well as output < 1177630828 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eve with that I cant see how to do this < 1177630844 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could maybe do stuff withh it if I could funcall with infinite number of parameters < 1177630848 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats impossible :/ < 1177630913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone point me to an actual description of format? < 1177630919 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1177630950 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/a-few-format-recipes.html & http://www.lisp.org/HyperSpec/Body/sec_22-3.html < 1177632741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you funcall with infinite number of parameters by using a cyclic list? < 1177632775 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I tried (apply #'format t "..." infinite-list) < 1177632779 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which didnt work < 1177632785 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think you are rihgt < 1177632791 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just call it without apply < 1177632796 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may work, im not sure < 1177632808 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the behavior of ~? < 1177632817 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which im not totally sure about) < 1177632820 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests < 1177632829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be implementation-defined < 1177632971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then i have a sense you get limited to a pushdown automaton since the positions in the formats and argument lists are your only changeable data that i can see < 1177633108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, perhaps, if you use the extensible output string as your format string in some clever way... < 1177633245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like Smith or Muriel < 1177633336 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@209.11.151.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177633368 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177634380 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes thhis (format nil "~{~^~?~}" '("<~?>" ("[~a]" ("y")))) → <[y]> < 1177634383 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up again < 1177634897 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177636064 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j0 < 1177639295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has discovered that Gentoo provides an easy way to get GDC working. . . < 1177639307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add "d" to USE, recompile GCC; voila. < 1177645365 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177648155 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ever wondered how virtual methods worked, this paper has an excellent explanation, AFAICT: http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~urs/oocsb/papers/oopsla96.pdf < 1177649755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177651939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual methods being ones that need to be defined in a subclass? < 1177653255 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177653825 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177653872 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177653918 0 :Arrogant!i=Arrogatn@170.orlando-04-05rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177654074 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177654376 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@122.46.188.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177654429 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177656311 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177660567 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177660799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177660800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177668471 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1177675156 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177677380 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177678490 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177678699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177684080 0 :goban!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177685280 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177685423 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-235-235.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177687335 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177687576 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177689247 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177690552 0 :fax!i=usr11723@80.193.211.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177690553 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1177691930 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-75.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177694302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omg.worsethanfailure.com/ Anyone else going to work on this? < 1177697763 0 :Arrogant!n=Arrogatn@180.orlando-04-05rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177699510 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1177700445 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177701696 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contest: write a program to print the decimal representation of the 435 fibonacci number < 1177701720 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is 35 characters < 1177701829 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :least characters wins < 1177701831 0 :helios24!i=helios@gaia.quasar-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177701840 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1177701980 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177702070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1177702091 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1177702091 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[fbs=.2#1 < 1177702098 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do [fbs=.,&fbs+/0 1{fbs 435 times < 1177702108 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then take elemt 0 < 1177702110 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1177702334 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: whats the 8th fib number? < 1177702349 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its 21 right? < 1177702385 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1177702418 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, i got 39 < 1177702442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost... < 1177702451 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you're probably using Perl :) < 1177702472 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, dc < 1177702483 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1177702485 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177702495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc might as well stand for "dense code" < 1177702521 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39, hasekll: let f=0:1:zipWith(+)f(tail f)in f!!435 < 1177702543 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i I knew how to do somthing several times.. < 1177702551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0sa1sb435[ladlb+sasb1-d0++++>+++>+++++<< pikhq_: My intention is to use DPlof just to get Plof (the one in Plof) working. Then I'll make Plof target C (as well as interpretation), and bingo, CPlof. < 1177722492 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That's called "Self-hosting". < 1177722504 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, and it's a waste < 1177722513 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp begs to differ. < 1177722538 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Brainfuck can self-host. Why not Plof? < 1177722539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a waste, how? < 1177722551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of time < 1177722558 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1177722570 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned useful, actually. < 1177722571 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _can_ do it, but that doesn't mean someone should write it all < 1177722583 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Compiling to C is quite useful. < 1177722588 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I bet that Plof'd get more popularity if Dplof weren't a build requirement. < 1177722589 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1177722592 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1177722593 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D. < 1177722594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: The fact that that gives me Plof in C for free is just a side-effect. < 1177722598 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just write a plof->c compiler < 1177722604 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is. < 1177722610 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happens to be in Plof. < 1177722611 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a dplof of plofplof < 1177722673 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dplof will be abandoned once Plof works. < 1177722690 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://www.codu.org/plof.tar.gz < 1177722696 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1177722698 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://www.codu.org/dplof.tar.gz < 1177722789 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: dplof may have (and probably does have) obscure bugs :) < 1177722826 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like file IO segfaulting? < 1177722850 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr? :P < 1177722855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plof looks pretty boring < 1177722877 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I am so offended, blah blah etc? < 1177722891 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1177722899 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1177722901 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1177722974 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I'm not seeing fileio segfaulting ... < 1177722992 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: It's probably an issue with multilib. < 1177723025 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177723087 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Except stdio works. < 1177723122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :P < 1177723123 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story: Dplof and x86_64 don't mix. < 1177723128 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foob. < 1177723142 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPlof should be easier to get to mix, though. < 1177723191 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1177723195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's part of the intention :) < 1177723303 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has the prom tomorrow. . . Whooo. . . < 1177723768 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177723778 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the prom ... I didn't go. < 1177723783 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best decision I ever made. < 1177723803 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prom was last weekend at my school < 1177723852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i put "prom" on my list of advantages to not being from the US? :) < 1177723885 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1177723899 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what's wrong with prom? < 1177723907 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What /isn't/? < 1177724005 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno... < 1177724033 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godawful music, annoying people, neverending social stigma, weeeeeeh. < 1177724073 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1177724095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prom is, I assume, much better if you've got a date. < 1177724111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I do. . . < 1177724115 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1177724116 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1177724125 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why GregorR doesn't like it < 1177724139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't have a date, I'd not show up. < 1177724333 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You did get my /msg, right? < 1177724409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1177724488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. I see that the parser works well. < 1177724503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to go from parser to compiler, but I'm sure it can be done. < 1177724539 0 :Tweek888!n=tweek@65342hfc63.tampabay.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177724539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION honestly sucks at compiler design; basm is a fluke. < 1177724542 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there'll need to be a sizeable C runtime environment. < 1177724556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else some really weird-ass shit happening. < 1177724580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably help with the C runtime ATM. . . < 1177724586 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll take some fumbling. < 1177724586 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual compilation should be as simple as putting functions in functions and turning everything else into the proper (inline) function calls. < 1177724600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1177724638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd *like* to see a better way for Plof to access C functions than the current method. . . I assume that's planned after Plof runs? < 1177724645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cPlof, even. < 1177724662 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I don't actually have any ideas for it. < 1177724701 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing seems like it would be hard < 1177724772 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please print the laplace transform of something < 1177724783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps make it a C++ interface? < 1177724799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that C++ could possibly behave better with Plof. < 1177724811 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm ... that seems unlikely :) < 1177724825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say *much* better. ;) < 1177724864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* the best way to do it would probably involve a Plof<->C API, so the Plof interpreter or compiler could load libraries conforming to that API. < 1177724901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably end up having the API require that function names in the C code conform to the name-mangling scheme. < 1177724954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweek888: 0 -> 0 < 1177724968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(always a safe bet with linear transforms) < 1177725005 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Name-mangling isn't very realistic in a language where there are no named functions :) < 1177725025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You know what I mean, though, right? < 1177725054 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the name mangling is a non-issue. But otherwise, yeah, it would make sense if the C functions basically were Plof functions which happened to have native code. < 1177725083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. < 1177725099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an easy solution, which allows for consistency with Plof. < 1177725114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work well for Dplof, methinks, though. < 1177725134 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd work fine for DPlof - unions and structs in D are exactly equivalent to their C versions. < 1177725140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1177725169 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, you have to admit that my current dlopen method is much easier :) < 1177725173 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please print the laplace transform of something that isn't 0 < 1177725185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 -> 0 < 1177725189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easier, but less elegant. < 1177725191 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1177725219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1177725237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that one. i'll look it up. < 1177725256 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Please go back in time and uninvent IRP. < 1177725276 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has halted: SIG_NO_TIME_TRAVEL < 1177725335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has halted: SIG_STACK: Execution stack overflow; no runtime recursion < 1177725823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, 1 -> 1/s, more or less. < 1177725832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_transform < 1177725936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't the laplace transform be (C -> C) -> (C -> C)? < 1177725959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _said_ more or less. < 1177726003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently it does not usually converge everywhere. < 1177726032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, no, the initial definition should be on R. < 1177726077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*function < 1177726113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is more like (R -> C) -> (C -> Maybe C) :) < 1177726134 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, it's time < 1177726144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, (R+ -> C) -> (C -> Maybe C) < 1177726465 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1177726475 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it you haven't taken differential equations? < 1177726493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what's going on. . . < 1177726512 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maths. < 1177726514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Differential equations, I belive, comes *after* AP calc, which is what I'm doing right now. < 1177726530 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, classes < 1177726533 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just skip to diff. eq. < 1177726540 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP calc is no fun. < 1177726548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost *done*. < 1177726556 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need to make a 5 is a TI-89 Titanium. < 1177726559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is diff. eq right after AP calc? < 1177726567 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap calc is what i'm taking next year < 1177726571 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an elective class. < 1177726591 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally taken after calc ii or iii. < 1177726597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1177726600 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it'd be after AP calc BC < 1177726608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'll take it my college freshman year. < 1177726620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a HS junior ATM < 1177726650 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. but even at that, there are a few different diff. eq. courses. < 1177726661 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1177726681 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love. < 1177726860 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't reached the wizard yet, so i'm just going to keep chopping wood then < 1177727644 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Error 1606. Press any key to continue." < 1177729598 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-13.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1177729609 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy, everyone < 1177729613 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1177729629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1177729642 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1177729643 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's been going on in #Esoteric recently? < 1177729672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof's going to become self-hosting soon as Gregor and I bother. < 1177729725 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neato < 1177729747 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrapping it with C or something first? < 1177729790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, bootstrapping it with DPlof. < 1177729918 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing some work recently on the idea I was throwing around a few weeks ago about an esoteric networking protocol < 1177729930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear God. < 1177729941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should implement it in PESOIX. . . < 1177729946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thereby get PESOIX working. :p < 1177729961 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general idea is that packets consist of a number of headers that contain a simple scripting language that "peel off" at each machine they bounce through < 1177730009 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since the scripts can self-modify and control their own packet's routing, you can use the language to write networking utilities as well. < 1177730015 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or worms, I guess. < 1177730048 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll let you write an ftp or p2p app in just a handful of characters! < 1177730104 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the system allows for totally ad-hoc network configurations, wherein packets are also used to update various "routing tables" stored independently on each machine < 1177730133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus. < 1177730135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy. < 1177730136 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1177730150 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somewhat utilitarian and functional, eh? < 1177730228 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I envision it as an extremely powerful (if horrifically insecure) system. < 1177730239 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1177730253 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i might be able to shorten my fibonacci code by a character, but no < 1177730262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be horrifically secure on the Hurd. . . < 1177730266 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[ < 1177730270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make the script run as UID {}. < 1177730272 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language are you working in, bsmntbombdood? < 1177730278 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: dc < 1177730289 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats dc like? < 1177730297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Turing complete RPN calculator. < 1177730299 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: crazy awesome < 1177730306 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cant tell from looking at the examples < 1177730314 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: do you have a link to some basic info? < 1177730318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man dc < 1177730331 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I proposed a little contest before, write a program to print the 435 fib number in the least number of characters < 1177730335 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait how is that on my computer :D < 1177730338 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1177730343 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is 33 characters < 1177730344 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least *some* packets need to be able to alter the routing table, which is where the insecurity lies. They'll also probably have their own persistent storage mechanism of some kind, like "cookiespace" or something that's cleared periodically. < 1177730350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has written a (non-Turing complete) dc clone. . . 94 LOC, not counting preprocessor macros < 1177730357 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: neato < 1177730371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: So run it in a subHurd. < 1177730381 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0sa1[rdla+rsar1-d0C compiler. . . < 1177734880 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves his incomplete, non-optimizing, inefficient C->BF compiler. < 1177734889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also loves that. < 1177734903 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, port nethack to bf! < 1177734920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First implement c2bf. < 1177734923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fully. < 1177734927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then port libc. < 1177734929 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh < 1177734931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then port ncurses. < 1177734934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun. < 1177734972 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be easier to make a program to port assembler to bf? < 1177734978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1177734982 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I just had a great idea for an esoteric language < 1177734987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given that it's already been done. . .) < 1177734991 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, I forgot it! < 1177734994 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll come back to me. < 1177735000 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1177735039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kidsquid.com/old/compilers/bfasm/bfasm.html < 1177735071 0 :zorkplik_!n=chatzill@70.253.209.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177735084 0 :zorkplik_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, my internets went away. < 1177735091 0 :zorkplik_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I reconnected, it changed my nickname, because it thought I was still connected < 1177735301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you register your nickname you can ask nickserv to kill your "ghost" < 1177735412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you actually have the old irc client running somewhere, in which case it might reconnect < 1177735629 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: That lisp container choice image is waaaaaaaay too funny :P < 1177735632 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: It haunts my dreams. < 1177735994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that Lua is the same except with associative tables < 1177736407 0 :zorkplik_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177736539 0 :zorkplik!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177736630 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what other basic container types Plof needs.... < 1177736656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes off to sleep. . . < 1177736680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You need a list of stacks of strings of integers. < 1177737183 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay, I made a Range type :P < 1177737194 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun: < 1177737195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreach(new(Range, 0, Infinity, 2), (x){ < 1177737195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : println(x); < 1177737195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}); < 1177738436 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current collections in the Plof core: AArray, Array, LazyCollection (every item is generated from a function), List, Range, Set. < 1177738452 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel the need to make Queue, Stack, etc, since List can easily be used as them. < 1177738513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deQue? < 1177738577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... i guess it's not very different from Queue < 1177738628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait... < 1177738647 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, I'm not sure how deque is implemented :) < 1177738655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, you need a doubly linked list < 1177738665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My List is doubly-linked. < 1177738671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1177738686 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My primary purpose here is not efficiency ;) < 1177738706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sharing? < 1177738719 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1177738746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do something like (cons a (tail b)) < 1177738776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you cannot update the double link < 1177738837 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yeah, that's true. < 1177739001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely functional queues and deques seem to require more than lists anyway. < 1177739033 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof is anything but purely functional :) < 1177739059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean immutable datastructure < 1177739081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has its use even in an otherwise impure language < 1177739167 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1177739212 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, what to do, what to do. < 1177739241 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I actually have Plof at a very usable place, I don't know what to do next X-P < 1177739309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a program in it? < 1177739329 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that's just it - the only program I need to write right now is PlofPlof, and I want to hold off on that until my head stops spinning. < 1177739453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if your head is spinning then a break may be in order < 1177739474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an exorcist < 1177739479 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1177740340 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Gregor hates Python: Every type I type Python, I typo Pythong and have to remove the 'g'. < 1177740463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds rather Freudian. < 1177740634 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deques are just doubly linked lists < 1177740658 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pair (pointer to head, pointer to tail) < 1177740658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just one possible implementation < 1177740670 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they had constant-time lookup? < 1177740686 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant time push, pop < 1177740697 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1177740709 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that different from a list? < 1177740712 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doubly linked) < 1177740744 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deques are just doubly linked lists" < 1177740750 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :P < 1177740770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deques are an ast, not an implementation of it < 1177740783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell uses finger trees. < 1177740845 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1177742830 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177743860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177747199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177747200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177747485 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........... wtf. < 1177747491 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have "Washington Mutual Free Checking" < 1177747504 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my transaction history: "ATM BALANCE INQUIRY FEE" < 1177749854 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-185-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177750960 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-81-163.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177752513 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-76-59.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177754134 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177754314 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177754645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... should i read 2 weeks of this channels logs or not... < 1177754654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ppl been interesting? < 1177754871 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Depends ... do you have any interest in Plof? :P < 1177755026 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177755046 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1177755092 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-051-184.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177755321 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177755988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a lot of interests... it's just reading 2 weeks of a mostly idle channel log takes multiple hours < 1177756014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... i don't think that's the case here < 1177756021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should never go out of country. < 1177756384 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177762357 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1177765072 0 :Tweek888!n=tweek@65342hfc63.tampabay.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177765094 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please print the enumerated root of all evil. < 1177766634 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error. < 1177766868 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please suck my syntax error. < 1177766880 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1177766938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177768804 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177771421 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177771982 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177772152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177772701 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177774256 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG Earthquaek! :-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6602677.stm < 1177774300 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print ZOMG Earthquaek! :-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6602677.stm < 1177774316 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1177774336 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. way < 1177774353 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats got to be a hoax. < 1177774369 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the BBC? < 1177774375 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1177774376 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1177774382 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was another small one a few years ago in the north of England < 1177774403 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given its alleged range, my parents could have felt it < 1177774418 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would probably all be asleep at that time though < 1177774708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177774844 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177775045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177775642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't wait for October. . . < 1177775688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4: Coming to a package manager near you. October 23, 2007. < 1177775782 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177776119 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :خخا < 1177776123 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ثقة < 1177776141 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damned language-switching < 1177776258 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language switching is fun < 1177776381 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :română < 1177776526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jes, bonas. < 1177776611 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nein < 1177776642 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german is an ugly language < 1177776649 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i would have taken it in high school < 1177777520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doitugojanakaxtuta. < 1177777918 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please print Doitugojanakaxtuta. < 1177778129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes it out on a piece of paper < 1177778198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 characters. Happy? < 1177778340 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;/ < 1177779048 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweek888: how is german ugly? < 1177779088 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glottal stops make a language easier to parse < 1177779096 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an ugly language < 1177779100 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the sounds < 1177779102 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the structure < 1177779108 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1177779145 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the accent marks are cool, and noun capitalization creates an interesting kinda flow < 1177779164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers Japanese. < 1177779188 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1177779209 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many irregularities < 1177779212 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody and their cousin on the internet prefers Japanese < 1177779218 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate japanese < 1177779219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts preparing for the next BFM release. . . < 1177779234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three years of studying it kind of encourages you to like it. XD < 1177779245 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1177779253 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find German useful, because some of the best demoscene coders in the world are from Germany. < 1177779258 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177779261 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1177779261 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1177779267 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares about the demo scene? :d < 1177779298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CCC cares. < 1177779307 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the approaches a 64kb limitation leads to are interesting and can be applied elsewhere to great effect < 1177779334 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the work on procedural content generation is amazing < 1177779365 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if game designers want to keep making things more realistic without spending *billions* on each new game, it's necessary. < 1177779400 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no movie or video game has ever cost a billion dollars. < 1177779423 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i added movie for perspective. < 1177779473 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use hyperbole for effect < 1177779527 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use cocaine < 1177779636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New BFM and Basm releases up. . . < 1177779649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bfm.tar.bz2 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.tar.bz2 < 1177779671 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1177779696 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what are those? compilers? < 1177779712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweek888: BFM is a compiler for BFM. Basm is a Brainfuck to C compiler in BFM. < 1177779726 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice. < 1177779728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Internal API cleaner; partial C backend. < 1177779744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made pretty much all of the internals cleaner, really. < 1177779751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also includes some documentation. < 1177779767 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation is good < 1177779782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basm has been made smaller and more efficient. < 1177779793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've done some fiddling with the optimizer, as well. < 1177779819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. Made it work with a newer build of Tcllib. < 1177779853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Basm tarball now includes a C version of the basm code, allowing for easier bootstrapping. < 1177780293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1177780310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has discovered the issue with the C backend. . . < 1177782686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C backend I *believe* works now. < 1177782715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New build up again. < 1177782796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a new basm build up, which has C code produced via the C backend. < 1177782872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And said C code does bootstrap it all. < 1177783056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody cares. XD < 1177783315 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1177783755 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5" < 1177783938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, why would anyone want something that makes Brainfuck remotely useful? < 1177783982 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'm in the minority here, but I enjoy esoteric languages that combine functionality with unconventionality < 1177783993 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as tools with similar intent < 1177783996 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is brainfuck fast? < 1177784016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Then you should love BFM. < 1177784021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's odd, but it's functional. < 1177784024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweek888: Can be. < 1177784040 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of this < 1177784051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. You've seen me rant about it, after all. :p < 1177784244 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been here through its entire development process. < 1177784264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1177784300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how many people have actually coded in it. . . < 1177784388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the hell LostKng doesn't work in Basm any more. . . < 1177784412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent: LostKng.c:6857: Error:Unexpected end of file < 1177784423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that'd explain it; seems I'm using a borken LostKng.b source. < 1177784687 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it < 1177784753 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :German :/ < 1177784775 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to learn german in highschool, but I have to take stupid spanish instead < 1177784846 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dayum < 1177784849 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, dude < 1177785053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177785068 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177785103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my computer crashed trying to compile LostKng. < 1177785110 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1177789259 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1177789325 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realization! < 1177789343 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel needs to implement what's needed to let the processes do everything else. :-) < 1177789370 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, processes need to be loaded somehow, so the kernel must be able to load processes. < 1177789388 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that interrupts to straight to the kernel, so it needs to have a way to hand those over to processes. < 1177789411 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... what, is that it? < 1177789424 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1177790137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats on developing part of a microkernel. < 1177790150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other part you need, of course, is a message passing interface. < 1177790563 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1177791101 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what, the processes can't do that themselves? < 1177791103 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1177791123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: . . . < 1177791131 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Load a process, send all the interrupts to it. < 1177791147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if *that's* the way you think things should go, why not just implement the whole thing on top of DOS? < 1177791148 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, delegate *everything* onto the process. < 1177791166 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, I guess the kernel does have to provide something. < 1177791175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :core.com < 1177791186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that's the name of your system. < 1177791188 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process scheduling, message passing, magic hat... < 1177791202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just execute core.com, it does everything. :p < 1177791223 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings a song about the magic hat < 1177791942 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most kernels also handle memory paging < 1177791961 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least allocation < 1177791975 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because having processes all grab memory willy-nilly has some issues < 1177792163 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1177792170 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate my physics teacher < 1177792183 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does your teacher do that incites hatred? < 1177792203 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://84.184.220.55:1337/random?6519&4583&10443 ::: http://84.184.220.55:1337/random?8707&88&7305 < 1177792286 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His labs aren't worth doing because of all the bullshit assumptions he introduces < 1177792317 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am supposed to calculate maximum instantaneous velocity given average velocity < 1177793007 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm.... which unicode characters could be used to represent whitespace (not a new line, although I need to know that to) < 1177793443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Impossible. < 1177793452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no shit < 1177793465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has he *ever* learned calculus? < 1177793498 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is scared of calculus, and wants us to be also < 1177793503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that you can tell with average velocity is that, at one point, the instantaneous velocity equals the average velocity. . . (assuming a continuous function) < 1177793586 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing he wants me to assume constant acceleration, which is not anywhere close to what actually happened < 1177793618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming constant acceleration at least lets you figure out what the max velocity is. . . < 1177793623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why give the average velocity? < 1177793642 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1177793731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused as to what your teacher wants < 1177793740 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your physics teacher is scared of calculus? < 1177793749 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1177793760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, fish scared of water. < 1177793784 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1177793784 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physics is stupid without calculus < 1177793792 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculus is very important in physics. < 1177793808 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus was created _for_ physics < 1177793844 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless we discover the universe to be based on Conway's Life, or something. < 1177793844 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: was it? < 1177793844 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1177793878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yeah. . . Calculus == Newtonian physics. < 1177793901 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often does e^x pop up in Newtonian physics? < 1177794001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any time the position of an object is modeled by e^x. < 1177794009 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if the universe is based on Conway's Life, I want to introduce a stray glider! >:-) < 1177794016 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and how often is that? < 1177794037 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it seems it'd be somewhat common when decay and such is involved. < 1177794106 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1177794114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: I just want to fiddle with a glider that's supposed to be there. < 1177794185 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, really, it seems the universe would use something more sophisticated than gliders. < 1177794223 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, most research in Conway's Life is concerned with objects surrounded by dead cells. < 1177794242 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177794570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: gliders are used in as part of quite a few life patterns, though. < 1177794667 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what if you base everything on a different agar? < 1177794692 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could build outward at one cell per generation, theoretically. < 1177794852 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177795616 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177799171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177799282 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177800274 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177803159 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody want to write a Plof CGI module? :) < 1177803401 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177803417 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> Is there any way to rename a process? < 1177803433 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to change the name of one of his processes from "pythonw.exe" < 1177803467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'd love to if I weren't needing to get ready for prom. < 1177806392 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177806429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is ready, but leaves soon < 1177806957 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177807808 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177812203 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177812616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweek888: do root <- replicate 3 6; show root < 1177812816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, let evil = sex; sex = 6 in do root <- replicate 3 evil; show evil < 1177813328 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for a while, I thought you were looking for IO actions. < 1177813339 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I realized that both of those produce "666". < 1177813351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1177813364 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do evil <- [sex]; sex <- [6]; root <- replicate 3 evil; show root < 1177813383 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or show evil. I think they do the same thing. < 1177813389 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or show 6, or show sex. < 1177813401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definitely does not work with do. maybe mdo. < 1177813418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1177813466 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Indeed, that doesn't work with do. < 1177813478 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do sex <- [6]; evil <- [sex]; root <- replicate 3 evil; show root < 1177813498 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdo putStr x; x <- getLine < 1177813504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdo worked fine though. the wonders of recursive monads. < 1177813512 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter just for fun. < 1177813544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, that will probably give a run time error. < 1177813560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are importing the Control.Time module. < 1177813568 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1177813574 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runtime error, eh? < 1177813628 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc is so cool < 1177813637 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's so smart! Or something like that, anyway. < 1177813648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, there needs to be a result expression at the end. < 1177813663 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdo putStr x; x <- getLine; return x < 1177813686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that indeed gives a runtime error. < 1177813771 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it give? < 1177813807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hugs, <>, the usual error for using a value that is currently under evaluation < 1177813828 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_ < 1177813865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that dc or perl? < 1177813925 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1177813934 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's two characters < 1177813958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does happen to be the usual perl default variable < 1177813966 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Default variable? < 1177813978 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronoun < 1177813996 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's it refer to? < 1177814002 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1177814017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever was last referred to? < 1177814021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you do print with no arguments, $_ is printed, similarly for substitutions and many other things < 1177814044 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default loop variable, the arguments to a function < 1177814051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is an ordinary variable but the default for many commands if you don't specify any < 1177814083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not the default for everything though < 1177814155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, while (<>) is an abbreviation for while ($_=), i think, using two different defaults in on command < 1177814185 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is horrid < 1177814238 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to agree. < 1177814460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, while (defined ($_=)) < 1177814472 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1177814505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result test is whether the value is defined, not whether it is true < 1177814553 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The horror. < 1177814555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably so you don't get tripped up by empty strings, which are defined but false < 1177814571 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get an empty string out of =? < 1177814593 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := returns what it assigned (i assume_ < 1177814601 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/_/)/ < 1177814611 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an assignment operator? < 1177814616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1177814631 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And returns what it's defined... the horror. < 1177814641 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horror? < 1177814645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is borrowed from C actually < 1177814655 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and it's handy < 1177814676 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed: horrible yet handy. < 1177814679 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b = c < 1177814701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (<>) reads the next line from the files on the command line, assigning it to $_ and entering the loop if there was any. < 1177814759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so common that you can put around your whole program by giving perl the -n option. < 1177814781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-p adds a print command inside, making perl behave almost like sed. < 1177814822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically perl generally tries to use defaults to make the most common case shorter. < 1177814855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1177814908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly with substitutions, that uses $_ as default and that too makes perl behave almost like sed. < 1177815574 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed+awk > perl < 1177815972 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: adds a print command where? < 1177816104 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har, the RSA-in-4-lines-perl needs to call dc < 1177816446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, away from window) < 1177816468 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: dc? < 1177816468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before the end of the loop i think < 1177816500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whatever is in $_ is printed out before reading the next line into it < 1177816500 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, how about this "indent style": use as little whitespace as possible. < 1177816535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see we are still on horrible subjects :) < 1177816537 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: turing complete rpn calculator language < 1177816576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would assume that perl contains essentially everything in sed+awk. < 1177816592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that those were probably its main ancestors. < 1177816641 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's massivly uglier < 1177816645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know awk much though < 1177816649 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not broke don't fix it < 1177816675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has its philosophy, elegance is not in it. < 1177816698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but practicality definitely is < 1177816763 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :module Main where{main=do{num<-readLine;print(isPrime num)};isPrime num=all[not(num`mod`n==0)|n<-[2..num-1]]} < 1177816782 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-line Haskell is a lot easier than one-line Python. < 1177816828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the goal is _not_ to avoid whitespace, then you can usually strip some {} even in one-line Haskell. < 1177816866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that dreaded (by compiler writers) parse-error } insertion rule ensures that. < 1177816890 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse-error } insertion rule? < 1177816898 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't look right, add a }? < 1177816905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly :) < 1177816940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, an invisible } matching an invisible { < 1177816948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably a good reason 'let {x = 3 in x' fails, then. < 1177816971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it needs to be let x = 3 in x < 1177816990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the implicit } can only match an implicit { < 1177817066 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound too hard. < 1177817084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with let ... in it usually works nicely since the in basically forces the } cleanly < 1177817088 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since I feel like being a little random, I wrote this: http://pastebin.ca/463717 < 1177817138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you try to nest where and do like in your example, you probably need at least one set of explicit {} < 1177817206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the rule is dreaded by compiler writers because it forces the parser to give information back to the lexer. < 1177817279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is that? < 1177817356 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it has a name. < 1177817359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some robot programming language? < 1177817364 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. < 1177817369 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for RigidChips. < 1177817438 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My... construction is pretty nice, in my obviously not that humble opinion. < 1177817466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic. thank god for wikipedia, because all the other links were japanese. < 1177817505 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's nice except for what happens when you try to move both forward/backward and sideways. < 1177817533 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia's handling of case in titles bugs me < 1177817550 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole thing flattens out and makes a lot of dust. < 1177817588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wiktionary should drive you insane :) < 1177817606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there the first character counts too) < 1177817631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, it explodes? :D < 1177817685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is dust in RigidChips? I thought it was about pure physics < 1177817775 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it's just to look cool. It doesn't do anything. < 1177819376 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo. C preprocessor hacks are oddly fun. < 1177822773 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177823715 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177826435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177827194 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1177831569 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177833531 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177833599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177833600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177836506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177837078 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-76-59.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177837556 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cherche supernatural saison 1 episode 15 version lol ou sous titre version proper xor ou saints < 1177837828 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-58-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177837947 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177837983 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1177837985 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1177837993 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1177840215 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-109.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177841363 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177841934 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-104-91.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177843050 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177844786 0 :jix__!n=jix@80.228.188.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177847066 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177854954 0 :nazgjunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bi-la Kaifa" < 1177856291 0 :nazgjunk!n=htitan@wikipedia/Nazgjunk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177857021 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177857600 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177860087 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: ?? < 1177860128 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good, i found it < 1177863276 0 :yachi!n=yachi@203.188.81.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177864141 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177865155 0 :zzoldan!n=zzoldan@bas1-montreal19-1177817619.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1177865166 0 :zzoldan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this thing for anyways? < 1177865179 0 :zzoldan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1177867903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1177869455 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177869662 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177869944 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to dinner < 1177872127 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1177873792 0 :yachi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1177875374 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one is writing fibonacci programs < 1177875379 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177875406 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's "the prophet wizard of the crayon cake and the seven inch bread"? < 1177878091 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177881656 0 :Rugxulo!n=icechat5@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177882094 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177883426 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-129-123-55.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177883474 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse my incompetence. < 1177883483 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++[->+>+<<] < 1177883485 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>[-<<+>>] < 1177883486 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ < 1177883488 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[>.-<-] < 1177883498 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite. < 1177883508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your incompetence is excused. < 1177883514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying to do? < 1177883524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, Egobot isn't running, so !bf won't do jack) < 1177883532 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I only just noticed that. < 1177883553 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insert rand(Expression_Of_Annoyance) < 1177884664 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177884691 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-044-136.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177884692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sighs < 1177884738 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1177884769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just tired. < 1177885469 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177886117 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was prom? < 1177886164 0 :Jakevfr!n=chatzill@adsl-66-143-34-251.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177886203 0 :Jakevfr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177886526 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo "abc=2; (abc+2)*4"|./a.out | dc < 1177886528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 < 1177886531 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works! < 1177887791 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177888036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went wonderfully. < 1177888055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing an infix->RPN program? < 1177888139 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1177888280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177888431 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09" < 1177888973 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boggles at what "dillogimp" has posted on comp.lang.scheme. < 1177888980 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wanted there to exist a value which would do stuff like: (list 1 2 3 4 5 6) ===> (1 2 3 4 5 6) < 1177889007 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The general tone of the responses was as if he had suggested a gay pope: not abusive, but of the complete opinion that the idea was awful and heretical. < 1177889034 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would break invariants like (eq? foo (car (cons foo bar))) and (eq? bar (cdr (cons foo bar))) < 1177889107 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : = blank < 1177889185 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1177889358 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he wanted an actual value that you could put in variables and stuff < 1177889396 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177889472 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I attempted to explain some concrete reasons why this was a crap idea. Most of the other people were just reacting instinctively -- programers have instincts for programming that tell them this sort of thing is a bad idea, even if they don't know exactly why. < 1177889548 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez < 1177889575 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177889637 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what he wants it for < 1177889770 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, haha < 1177889778 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just wants 0 < 1177892801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >++++++++++[>+++>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++[<]>-]>>+++.>+.<<++.>--.----.>>----.<<<.>>++++.<+++++++.+.>>.<<<.>---.>>+.<<---.>--------.<++.>+++++++.+. < 1177892824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177892991 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE, I'll revive EgoBot. < 1177893035 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177893042 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >++++++++++[>+++>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++[<]>-]>>+++.>+.<<++.>--.----.>>----.<<<.>>++++.<+++++++.+.>>.<<<.>---.>>+.<<---.>--------.<++.>+++++++.+. < 1177893046 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go eat shit fuckers < 1177893054 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...............? < 1177893060 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a shit fucker? < 1177893071 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound like anything I want to eat. < 1177893281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about that < 1177893306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame Starnestommy in #uncyclopedia < 1177893332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to find out what it said.. < 1177893492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Fisher_Price:_A_Retrospective an analysis of that phrase < 1177893594 0 :spaz!i=spaz@unaffiliated/spaz/x-0001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177893890 0 :Roger_The_Bum!i=Roger@c-71-225-61-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177893899 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, YOU! < 1177893975 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. That's quite the analysis. < 1177893997 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an English student, I declare it "good". < 1177894140 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :analysis < 1177894147 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anal = anus < 1177894160 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-lys = breakdown < 1177894166 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-is = process < 1177894237 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1177894264 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1177894274 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlightening. < 1177894340 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The phrase could be attributed to an enthusiastic fan of a sports team, named the Fuckers, who play for Eat Shit High School." < 1177895880 0 :spaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Going away" < 1177897992 0 :speedykiller!n=chatzill@c-71-204-15-189.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177897997 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS 666 < 1177898002 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello my friends! < 1177898072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi speedykiller < 1177898095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1177898212 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1177898221 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this would work < 1177898230 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +>>+<+<<+>+<+>+><+><><><+<+ < 1177898245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would if Egobot were up. < 1177898249 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roger_The_Bum: whether or not it works, that program doesn't output anything. < 1177898255 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: EgoBot isn't up? < 1177898257 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177898259 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1177898261 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1177898263 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1177898264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand corrected. < 1177898271 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You liar. < 1177898275 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1177898284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egobot just got revived without me noticing. < 1177898301 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and THAT's the beauty of brainfuck < 1177898309 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mash keys together < 1177898320 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it actually does something < 1177898332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ. < 1177898334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [ < 1177898346 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not that random < 1177898364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf sacdfj[q23bdfjasd][fasd]gfasdft3i5kjbviojasfkgsadhklgjsdfaklgjasl[]a[+- < 1177898399 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >+<+<<-<-<-+>>-<<+-<[--++>+><>><<]><><+<+>++<+<+><+<+<<-< < 1177898417 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++<[+.>-]++>[<-[>>]+.-]++. < 1177898421 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1177898423 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1177898463 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!Bf >_> <_< >>>>>>-> +_+ 0_o -_- < 1177898467 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1177898488 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >_> <_< >>>>>>-> +_+ 0_o -_- < 1177898494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfm source ^stdcons.bfm;source ^outs.bfm;string bah! "EgoBot needs BFM";outs bah!end < 1177898499 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1177898520 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡español! < 1177899020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf . < 1177899030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf[+.] < 1177899034 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1177899040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [+.] < 1177899052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1177899055 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 pikhq: bf < 1177899057 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 Sgeo: ps < 1177899066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[+.] < 1177899069 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1177899090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now flooding me >.> < 1177899101 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1177899103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently it loops through < 1177899105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1177899110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION killed EgoBot ;( < 1177899111 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-56-63.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177899118 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes his fist. < 1177899122 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, EgoBot! < 1177899126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1177899130 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 Sgeo: ps < 1177899139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill 1 < 1177899141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to try and get PESOIX working in Egobf sometime. < 1177899142 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 1 killed. < 1177899148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1177899153 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 Sgeo: ps < 1177899185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if that fails, do a simpler method of PESOIX-like esolang extension. < 1177899201 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot, where am i < 1177899206 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i talk with egobot? < 1177899221 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177899224 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1177899226 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1177899228 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speedykiller: you use those commands. < 1177899247 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo") < 1177899252 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice ok < 1177899255 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass < 1177899258 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1177899260 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1177899268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen 23 < 1177899372 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 ++++++++++[>+++++>>><<<<-]>.+. [42] < 1177899406 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :420 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>>.>+++.<------.>.--.>++++.<<-----.>++.<-------.------.>>++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++.<-----.>+++++.>------.------.<<<----.++.---------.>-----------.<++++.>---.------------.>>--.<<------------------------------------.<++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++.>>--------.<<+.>>----------.<<--.---------.>>--.>.+++++++++++++++++++ < 1177899409 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1177899412 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1177899416 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1177899421 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1177899427 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>>.>+++.<------.>.--.>++++.<<-----.>++.<-------.------.>>++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++.<-----.>+++++.>------.------.<<<----.++.---------.>-----------.<++++.>---.------------.>>--.<<------------------------------------.<++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++.>>--------.<<+.>>----------.<<--.---------.>>--.>.+++++++++++++++++++ < 1177899430 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric < 1177899431 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string < 1177899437 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful! < 1177899458 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it got a space at the end. < 1177899512 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :72 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>><<<<-]>-.>-..<...........>.....<..>.... [170] < 1177899523 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs < 1177899527 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1177899533 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>><<<<-]>-.>-..<...........>.....<..>.... < 1177899536 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1177899541 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs again < 1177899544 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol txtgen :P < 1177899549 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1177899568 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1177899633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec self.raw(\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo\")"(_o)o.]} < 1177899723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m]} < 1177899729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Egobot choke? < 1177899787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't be hard to add BFM to egobot, would it? < 1177899811 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just calls external interpreters right? < 1177899899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1177900167 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps d < 1177900171 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 GregorR: ps < 1177900182 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"Foo?"(_o)o.?]} < 1177900187 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo? < 1177900197 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right - there's no string escapes in Glass, pikhq :) < 1177900219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1177900222 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec (lambda x:x%x )('self.raw('PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec (lambda x:x%%x)(%r)\"(_o)o.?]} < 1177900223 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1177900242 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec (lambda x:x%x )('self.raw('PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec (lambda x:x%%x)(%r)\"(_o)o.?]}') < 1177900242 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1177900300 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec (lambda x:x%x )('self.raw(\'PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec (lambda x:x%%x)(%r)"(_o)o.?]}') < 1177900301 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1177900303 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1177900309 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec? < 1177901439 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.q = lambda x: x%x < 1177901456 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout(str(self.q)) < 1177901457 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0xb7c5e72c> < 1177901593 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec self.x("self.raw('PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!\"~exec exec self.x(%r)\"(_o)o.?]}')") < 1177901594 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute 'x' < 1177901603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec self.q("self.raw('PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!\"~exec exec self.q(%r)\"(_o)o.?]}')") < 1177901604 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1177901642 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec self.q("self.raw('PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!\"~exec exec self.q(\\%r\\)\"(_o)o.?]}')") < 1177901642 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid token < 1177901683 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec self.q('self.raw(\'PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec self.q(\\%r\\)"(_o)o.?]}\')') < 1177901684 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid token < 1177902009 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self.q? < 1177902110 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, i _still_ can't understand backpropagation neural nets < 1177902134 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. does Glass allow single-quoted strings? < 1177902159 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you putting in a second exec? < 1177902225 0 :Roger_The_Bum!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177902379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ $(( $RANDOM % 6 )) = "0" ] && (echo "you lose"; rm -rf /) || echo "you win" < 1177902438 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I need the source in string form so I can quine it back in < 1177902516 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout(self.q('self.raw(\'PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec self.q(\\%r\\)"(_o)o.?]}\')')) < 1177902516 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self.raw('PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec self.q(\'self.raw(\'PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"~exec exec self.q(\\%r\\)"(_o)o.?]}\')'\)"(_o)o.?]}') < 1177902878 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1177902906 0 :freeindex!n=blah@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177903046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1177903297 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has begun work on his Plof->C compiler :) < 1177903335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently googling his screen name for the hell of it < 1177903367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, I've seen just about everything I wrote since 2003. < 1177903369 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun, isn't it? ^^ < 1177903616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder where stuff I did in 1998 went. . . < 1177903618 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1177903624 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.longlandclan.hopto.org/index.cgi/91 < 1177903626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well; that disappearance is probably for the best. < 1177903663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1177903694 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bleb.net/scape/ esoterica < 1177903718 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/71165 < 1177903753 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1177904089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?56188 < 1177904174 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getpot(1)? < 1177905668 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qdb.us/84998 < awesome :P < 1177905740 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1177906481 0 :speedykiller!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]" < 1177909352 0 :freeindex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"After life is eternal death. May this be the salvation of your soul." < 1177914868 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1177919999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1177920000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1177920470 0 :rothfuss!n=rothfuss@c-67-188-235-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177924736 0 :Feuermonster!n=leichenh@68-122.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1177925155 0 :Untotes_Monster!n=leichenh@1.56.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1177925685 0 :rothfuss!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177925976 0 :Feuermonster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177928081 0 :Untotes_Monster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177930405 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-049-077.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177930478 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1177936341 0 :Terrasque!n=terra@128.80-203-49.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177938377 0 :dziadekkleofas!n=dziadekk@abik201.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1177938408 0 :dziadekkleofas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1177938447 0 :ais523!n=chatzill@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1177938465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about that, I forgot to join #esoteric before I started sending messages to it < 1177938474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ul (Is this still working?) < 1177938478 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1177938478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ul (Is this still working?)S < 1177938482 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1177938486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps d < 1177938490 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 ais523: ps < 1177938651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774 < 1177938658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ul (Does it work now?)S < 1177938662 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work now? < 1177938682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon deadfish funge93 http://pastebin.ca/raw/373016 < 1177938694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!deadfish ioiosososssss < 1177938696 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1177938698 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1177941751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading through the logs < 1177941767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seemed to be some sort of competition to produce a really short Fibonacci program < 1177941831 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1177941833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My language which I've been working on for ages and still doesn't have a finished spec or working interpreter is quite good at it < 1177941866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To print out a Fibonacci number whose index is three digits long, the relevant program is 15 characters long < 1177941874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possibly less if the index minus 2 is a round number) < 1177941887 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a fibonacci sequence program look like in your language? < 1177941930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To print out the 12th element is .10;(:@+)fzBSn < 1177941937 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had better not be "fibonacci(xxx);" :) < 1177941940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the 10 is the index minus 2) < 1177941947 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunh < 1177941956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.10; is numeric wimpmode for the number 10 < 1177941964 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting looking language < 1177941979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is in fact a tarpit version of that language < 1177941988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language is Overload < 1177942022 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1177942039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the program: (:@+) is a code block meaning 'duplicate the top element of the stack, swap the second and third elements, and add the top two elements' < 1177942043 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes- a stack oriented language would lend itself to sequences like this < 1177942066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f causes the code block to repeat 10 times (in this case; a higher number could be given) < 1177942077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zB translates the resulting integer to a string, S prints it, and n is the final newline < 1177942103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stack starts full with an infinite number of copies of the number 1 < 1177942111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only two of which are relevant) < 1177942141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language was designed to be as concise as possible whilst still useful < 1177942317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example: printing out 6 factorial is 6U'*tzBSn < 1177942338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(single digit numbers have their own characters to input them, as they're the most common sort of input in a program) < 1177942344 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1177942502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost compatible with Underload; if you replace all instances of S in the Underload program with pS, it does the same thing (although for a different reason in some cases) < 1177943124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you present one in which the reason is different? < 1177943155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a encloses something in parentheses in Underload < 1177943168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Overload, it creates a new one-element list which contains the top element of the stack < 1177943206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference can't be determined using only Underload commands, though < 1177943749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for instance, ("("))S (which isn't quite strict Underload) outputs (), as expected (you can't actually quote parentheses in Underload, but this is what would happen if you could) < 1177943788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ("("))pS outputs "(") in Overload; the p will put quotation marks into the string, making it """(""") before its printed < 1177943829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The p is needed; (())S outputs the NUL character in Overload, for somewhat complicated reasons.) < 1177947002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complicated reasons are the best ones < 1177947079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then... the identity function is the Church numeral for 1 < 1177947105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the () is interpreted as an empty sublist, which corresponds to an empty string and therefore the null program, and the null program is a NOP < 1177947120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 is NUL in the incremented ASCII character set. < 1177947135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((:*))S will output SOH for similar reasons < 1177948290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~bf ,[.,]!Is this still working? < 1177948442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec execfile(".bot/scripts/bf.py") < 1177948443 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '.bot/scripts/bf.py' < 1177948448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec execfile("bot/scripts/bf.py") < 1177948454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~bf ,[.,]!Is this still working? < 1177948454 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this still working? < 1177949676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec execfile("bot/scripts/dof.py") < 1177949710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~dof [,.]!cat can't quite be written in DoFuck. Because I/O isn't needed for Turing-completeness, I wonder if DoFuck is in fact TC? < 1177949710 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat can't quite be written in DoFuck. Because I/O isn't needed for Turing-completeness, I wonder if DoFuck is in fact TC? < 1177950313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~bf ++++++++[->-[->-[->-[-]<]<]<]>++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<[>+>+<<-]>-.>-----.> < 1177950317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++[->-[->-[->-[-]<]<]<]>++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<[>+>+<<-]>-.>-----.> < 1177950396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the program is the 'brainfuck speed test' suggested on Talk:Brainfuck on the wiki) < 1177950418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt_bot uses a 32-bit cell size, so it might take a while < 1177950436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think EgoBot's cell size is 16 by default < 1177950465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177950752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1177951095 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177951368 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-68-13.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1177952343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177953078 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177953760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1177953993 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177957068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have killed your obnoxious BF speed tester. < 1177957078 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBFC2M would be a better benchmark anyway. < 1177957183 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./egobf/egobf-0.7/src/egobfc2m speed.bf < 1177957184 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK0.00user 0.00system 0:00.00elapsed < 1177957205 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast :P < 1177958204 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177959451 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177964837 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177968415 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operator-precedence_parser#Alternatives_to_Dijkstra.27s_Algorithm < 1177968748 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... < 1177968756 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPlof's parser doesn't use a lookahead < 1177968774 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not recursive-descent, it's purely iterative. < 1177968805 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't understand what this is doing, so never mind :P < 1177969855 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1177970495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177970572 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-232-188.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1177971210 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-75-70-41-174.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1177971241 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177971268 0 :Tweek888!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1177972383 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: how does it work? < 1177972527 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't understand how calamari's code works < 1177973763 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-129-142-146.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1177973804 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1177973850 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might work today. < 1177973855 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't mind me. < 1177973859 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1177973859 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<[>.-<-] < 1177973863 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9876543210 < 1177973874 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank goodness < 1177974104 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1177974190 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1177974193 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1177974195 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1177974479 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help ps < 1177974483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: ps Function: display the current processes < 1177974510 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help i < 1177974513 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: i Function: send input to a process < 1177974996 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1177975202 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha awesome < 1177975356 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1177975637 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1177976664 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1177976724 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]" < 1177976840 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need PICK for dc < 1177977598 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works!