00:02:54 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
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00:19:13 <bsmntbombdood> time is too fucked up
00:19:29 <bsmntbombdood> i propose a new system: decaseconds since the epoch
00:21:36 <bsmntbombdood> the epoch being the start of the current year
00:37:54 <bsmntbombdood> maybe kiloseconds
00:38:41 <Pikhq> I propose a new system: time_t
00:41:45 <bsmntbombdood> the numbers are too big for humans
00:54:19 <GregorR> I propose a new system. Lightmeters since the big bang.
00:54:56 <bsmntbombdood> good plan
00:55:04 <GregorR> Amusingly, the time is also the radius of the universe in meters ;)
00:59:28 <oerjan> what is wrong with planck time, i say
01:01:11 <bsmntbombdood> numbers to big
01:02:08 <oerjan> well a lightmeter is about, lessee...
01:02:30 <oerjan> 3.3 nanoseconds
01:04:41 <GregorR> lol
01:05:51 <bsmntbombdood> i was being serious
01:06:29 <oerjan> 86.4 ks in a day.
01:07:52 <oerjan> we are now at around 10^26 lightmeters after BB
01:11:48 <bsmntbombdood> maybe 10 light gigameters
01:14:48 <oerjan> what?
01:15:28 <oerjan> about 33 seconds?
01:16:20 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
01:44:14 <oerjan> what about light furlong?
01:45:35 <oklopol> hmm
01:45:45 <bsmntbombdood> 671 nanoseconds?
01:45:46 <oklopol> i might go to sleep now
01:46:03 <oerjan> something like that
01:52:39 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
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01:57:53 <SF|008> System online.
01:59:14 <SF|008> Query: Is this channel active?
01:59:25 <oerjan> maybe
02:00:02 <SF|008> Oddly enough, "maybe" is a valid boolean value.
02:00:37 <bsmntbombdood> fuzzy booleans!
02:02:18 <SF|008> If anybody wishes: Throw a runtime exception with the message "I'm in ur channel throwin ur exceptionz."
02:03:30 <oerjan> Program error: I'm in ur channel throwin ur exceptionz.
02:04:31 <fizzie> Booleans! http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/What_Is_Truth_0x3f_.aspx
02:04:58 <SF|008> Heh, someone here knows what I am talking about.
02:09:46 <oerjan> somehow i don't think that poster actually agreed with you.
02:10:47 <oerjan> i think, while there may be more than two truth values, only two of them are booleans.
02:12:00 <SF|008> Heh.
02:13:32 <SF|008> Ever heard of a proposed esoteric language called LifeScript?
02:15:31 <GregorR-L> SF|008: It's not on esolangs.org, therefore it does not exist.
02:16:07 <SF|008> Well, it was never put on a site other than the following link:
02:16:18 <SF|008> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/LifeScript
02:16:43 <oerjan> google turns up nothing obvious
02:17:03 <bsmntbombdood> .47693627620447
02:19:15 <oerjan> how enumerate
02:22:02 <SF|008> /!\ Google doesn't turn up anything related to programming for LifeScript.
02:22:31 <SF|008> (Damn, that /!\ was supposed to look like a warning symbol.)
02:24:53 <oerjan> i would guess it was made up on uncyclopedia
02:26:10 * oerjan accuses bsmntbombdood of spewing random numbers
02:26:49 <bsmntbombdood> 0.82418231992042479
02:28:21 * GregorR-L accuses bsmntbombdood of secretly being a superintelligent amoeba.
02:28:36 <bsmntbombdood> that's right
02:29:11 * oerjan accuses bsmntbombdood of agreeing too easily
02:29:23 <bsmntbombdood> 0.57673614647867355
02:29:56 <bsmntbombdood> q+tiQqHJI74zv7AskwJr7Yg
02:30:04 <bsmntbombdood> 256 bits of entropy, bitches
02:30:08 -!- `008_ has joined.
02:30:25 <GregorR-L> What a uniquely non-alphabetic moniker.
02:34:20 * `008_ waits for his ghost to ping out.
02:35:45 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving").
02:35:57 <oerjan> if you register you can get nickserv to kill ghosts
02:36:07 -!- SF|008 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:37:13 -!- `008_ has changed nick to SF|008.
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03:25:01 <SF|008> Hello.
03:25:29 <bsmntbombdood> GL59VPe05mq+geZrOKQ78NItSqrwUNePtw1XWOEuH/s
03:30:45 <oerjan> that's #esoteric for you - just random talk.
03:39:53 <bsmntbombdood> UCqM7ipdod9RM3ucjgTgFA08zyxJv7OuCnlAcTXvF5I
03:52:17 <bsmntbombdood> i can has cheezbrgr?
03:54:24 <oerjan> nowai
03:54:55 <bsmntbombdood> i think i have eaten one cheeseburger in my life
03:55:42 <oerjan> how sad that is
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05:26:10 <oerjan> "C++ is multiparadigm in the same way a dog with 4 table legs nailed onto it is an octopus"
05:27:05 <nuba> oerjan: that sounds pretty much like monty python's parrot sketch
05:29:29 <oerjan> C++ is not a dead parrot.  people may disagree on whether this is fortunate or not.
05:30:54 <SF|008> Anybody: while(1){fork();}
05:31:16 <Pikhq> I prefer:
05:31:21 <Pikhq> main: call fork
05:31:25 <Pikhq> jmp $main
05:31:41 <SF|008> Assembly?
05:31:44 <Pikhq> Yup.
05:31:59 <Pikhq> Could be made really, really tiny via abuse of ELF. . .
05:32:14 <SF|008> Or in an esolang I'm in the process of coding:
05:32:53 <SF|008> VAR main 0
05:33:12 <SF|008> FRK infinitefork
05:33:25 <SF|008> CLL main
05:33:33 <SF|008> RET 0
05:34:01 <SF|008> *CLL $main
05:34:41 <Pikhq> var __dl_fork=dlsym(dl_libc,"fork");while(:{1},{dlcall(__dl_fork)});
05:34:45 <SF|008> (infinitefork is the name of a file called infinitefork.lsc, which contains this exact code.
05:35:18 <Pikhq> . . . I've got something better for you.
05:35:21 <Pikhq> :(){ :|:& };:
05:35:43 <SF|008> Ah, the Unix fork bug.
05:36:28 <oerjan> it's a bug?
05:36:51 <SF|008> Typing that into a shell=hang.
05:36:52 <Pikhq> It's perfectly valid code.
05:37:06 <SF|008> Yes, but it crashes.
05:37:11 <Pikhq> Not the shell author's fault that what's requested is a crash.
05:37:31 <Pikhq> It's like complaining that your program segfaults when it sends itself a SIG_SEGV.
05:38:30 <SF|008> It's not supposed to send itself a SIGSEGV.
05:39:06 <bsmntbombdood> Pikhq: forkbomb shell code!
05:39:50 <SF|008> That's like (in my code) doing this:
05:40:13 <SF|008> ERR 199 SIG_SEGV.
05:40:31 <SF|008> Where that's supposed to naturally happen like this:
05:40:35 <Pikhq> Imagine that you had raise(SIGSEGV) as your entire program.
05:40:46 <Pikhq> Is it a bug when that causes your program to halt?
05:40:57 <SF|008> That would be a really useless program.
05:41:07 <Pikhq> Yes, but so is a fork bomb.
05:41:27 <SF|008> A fork bomb can take out the system.
05:41:34 <Pikhq> Just because it's useless doesn't make it a bug when an implementation does exactly what's requested of it.
05:42:10 <SF|008> A raise(SIGSEGV) just makes a stupid dialog box appear or something.
05:42:25 <bsmntbombdood> that program could be usefull if you were testing your sigsegv in the kernel
05:42:27 <Pikhq> Are you in POSIX-land or something?
05:42:38 <Pikhq> Err.
05:42:42 <Pikhq> Not in POSIX-land.
05:43:14 <Pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Yeah. . . It could also be useful if you just want to demonstrate to people that something doing what's requested is *desired behavior*, not a bug. ;)
05:43:31 <bsmntbombdood> yes indeed
05:43:51 <bsmntbombdood> *(int*)0;
05:44:09 <SF|008> But raising SIGSEGV explicitly is a kind of crappy error handler.
05:44:28 <Pikhq> Sure, but that *is* the requested behavior.
05:44:41 <Pikhq> If GCC *didn't* handle that properly, then GCC would be buggy.
05:44:57 <bsmntbombdood> maybe you can turn this into an esolang?
05:45:05 <bsmntbombdood> a language that doesn't do what you tell it to?
05:45:09 <Pikhq> Hahah.
05:45:40 <SF|008> The human programming language:
05:46:13 <SF|008> All syntax is valid, but the only output you get is the compiler telling you it'll do it later.
05:47:03 <SF|008> Example code:
05:47:15 <SF|008> Print out "hello world."
05:47:20 <SF|008> Output:
05:47:34 <SF|008> [X] I'll do it later.
05:47:38 <Pikhq> No, no, no.
05:47:40 <bsmntbombdood> not a very interesting completeness class
05:47:46 <bsmntbombdood> not worth thinking about
05:47:48 <bsmntbombdood> goodbye
05:47:51 <Pikhq> Output: "Goodbye, world."
05:47:59 <Pikhq> kill 09 1
05:48:08 <SF|008> 09 1?
05:48:12 <Pikhq> Err.
05:48:15 <Pikhq> kill -9 1
05:48:35 <SF|008> Still doesn't make any sense right now.
05:48:51 <Pikhq> What OS are you on?
05:49:03 <SF|008> Windows XP.
05:49:13 <Pikhq> Here's a nickle, kid. Get a real OS.
05:49:35 <SF|008> I have Ubuntu 6.something on my drive too.
05:49:37 <bsmntbombdood> no beard, no snobby unix guy
05:50:17 <Pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Huh?
05:50:30 <bsmntbombdood> you can't be a snobby unix guy unless you have a beard
05:50:47 <Pikhq> I've not shaved for a week, does that count?
05:50:54 <bsmntbombdood> no
05:51:36 <SF|008> Good idea for the esolang that just came up: print=throw an exception.
05:51:41 <Pikhq> SF|008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_%28Unix%29
05:51:50 <bsmntbombdood> that's not a good idea
05:52:05 <SF|008> Not really.
05:52:21 <SF|008> I'm just pulling ideas out of /dev/ass right now.
05:52:46 <Pikhq> . . . Okay, so you're on Windows XP, but you're using Unix devices.
05:52:54 <nuba> Pikhq: whats a real OS?
05:53:28 <Pikhq> nuba: A real, honest-to-God UNIX, of course.
05:53:41 <Pikhq> (there are other real OSes, that's just a common one)
05:53:50 <nuba> theres more to OSes than unixes
05:54:05 <Pikhq> Yeah, of course.
05:54:49 <nuba> plan9 for one addressed many bad designs on unix, but didnt stick around mostly cause unix was just good enough
05:54:51 <Pikhq> Here is one simple (if slightly over-general) definition of a real OS. . .
05:55:03 <Pikhq> os_t real_os = !Windows;
05:55:03 <Pikhq> :p
05:56:22 <nuba> heh
05:56:25 <nuba> kthxbye
05:56:37 <nuba> can i has sleep
05:56:44 <nuba> me badly needs sleep
05:57:03 <nuba> oh this is not #lolcode, sorry :)
05:57:12 <Pikhq> kill(nuba_pid, SIGSLEEP);
05:57:25 <nuba> multitasking while sleepwalking, no good. 'night
05:58:04 <bsmntbombdood> it's not "can i has sleep", it's "i can has sleep?"
05:58:26 <nuba> yeah not only wrong channel but syntax error too
05:58:30 <nuba> im in real bad shape
05:59:02 <Pikhq> Moral of the story: don't do LOLCODE.
05:59:14 <bsmntbombdood> don't lolcode, lolcats
06:00:01 <bsmntbombdood> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/bring-me-a-tricycle-i-must-get-to-the-circus.jpg    <-- it's GregorR !
06:04:01 <oerjan> eek, a werecat
06:06:35 <Pikhq> It's not Gregor, it's Gregor's cat.
06:06:39 <oerjan> nah, cannot be GregorR, it doesn't smile.
06:06:53 <oerjan> GregorR always smiles when he has a hat on.
06:10:22 * SF|008 does not know what the Windows equivalent to /dev/<name> is.
06:10:59 <Pikhq> There is none.
06:11:07 <Pikhq> That's an incomprehensible blob of API.
06:11:20 <SF|008> ?
06:12:05 <SF|008> I know you can redirect input to nul to get rid of it...
06:12:39 <Pikhq> Um, yeah. . . That's a nicety from DOS.
06:13:25 <Pikhq> The equivalent of, say, /dev/dsp is some weird Windows API. . . And the equivalent of /dev/hda is a different API. . .
06:13:28 <bsmntbombdood> uuuh ... don't talk about windows
06:13:32 <Pikhq> And /dev/null is a different one.
06:13:40 <Pikhq> Makes me sick just talking about it.
06:14:34 <SF|008> God, Windows sucks.
06:14:42 <bsmntbombdood> STOP USING IT
06:14:45 <bsmntbombdood> that is all
06:15:00 <SF|008> But it's the only one that I can access my internet connection from.
06:15:06 <Pikhq> SF|008: Sucks even more once you get *used* to having the source code to everything.
06:16:13 * SF|008 goes to check if nocharge.com has an executable dialer for his other system.
06:17:49 <Pikhq> SF|008: What kind of ISP do you have that doesn't support non-Windows OSes?
06:18:08 <bsmntbombdood> how does an isp support or not support an os?
06:18:28 <bsmntbombdood> shouldn't they just...give you a connection to the internets?
06:18:30 <SF|008> The dialer may be in a different executable format.
06:18:34 <Pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Easy. First, require a proprietary protocol.
06:18:52 <Pikhq> Second, only implement it in one OS.
06:19:05 <bsmntbombdood> why would you d o that?
06:19:09 <Pikhq> SF|008: *Surely* they support standard protocols?
06:19:11 <SF|008> Last time I checked, only Windows has the ability to use .exe's.
06:19:14 <Pikhq> bsmntbombdood: I dunno, ask NetZero.
06:19:43 <Pikhq> SF|008: Yeah, but that doesn't mean they don't support standard protocols. . .
06:19:44 <SF|008> What I'm saying is, the dialer that you downlad to give you the numbers may only be in a .exe file.
06:19:59 <bsmntbombdood> extract them
06:20:11 <Pikhq> Earthlink, for example, ships with a proprietary dialer. . . But I can just as easily find the phone numbers, and use kppp to dial up.
06:20:20 <SF|008> .exe=windows executable.
06:20:36 <oerjan> or VMS :)
06:21:17 <SF|008> I don't even know how to get to the net on Ubuntu 6.whatever it is.
06:21:48 <Pikhq> Or DOS, or certain versions of BeOS.
06:22:31 <SF|008> Pikhq: Uh, you seem to have gone into an infinite rant loop.
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06:23:08 <SF|008> Kindly throw an exception stating that you have detected an infinite rant and have decided to exit.
06:23:10 <Pikhq> SF|008: It's 23:21. I have good reason to.
06:23:25 <bsmntbombdood> whoa you are in my tz
06:23:34 <SF|008> Pikhq: As are you.
06:23:47 <SF|008> What state are you in?
06:23:56 <Pikhq> Colorado.
06:24:01 * bsmntbombdood too
06:24:15 * SF|008 is not.
06:24:21 <Pikhq> bsmntbombdood: I could swear we had this conversation earlier.
06:24:25 <bsmntbombdood> we did
06:24:35 <Pikhq> Ah.
06:24:42 <bsmntbombdood> i didn't remember untill just now
06:25:06 <Pikhq> You do realise that your hostname places you in (I think) Belgium, right? :p
06:25:30 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
06:25:37 <Pikhq> . . . Why?!?
06:25:40 <bsmntbombdood> not my hostname, actually
06:26:11 <SF|008> Heh.
06:26:24 <SF|008> qhois confirms the belgium hostname.
06:26:31 <SF|008> *whois.
06:26:33 <bsmntbombdood> guy who bought it says .be was cheaper
06:26:51 <SF|008> Damn, my typing skills are fail today,'
06:27:11 <Pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Probably is.
06:30:39 * SF|008 gets bored and dereferences a null pointer.
06:31:01 <bsmntbombdood> *(int*)0;
06:31:49 <oerjan> fromJust Nothing
06:33:57 * Pikhq gets bored an references a null pointer.
06:34:04 <Pikhq> &(void*)0;
06:34:14 <bsmntbombdood> errorrrr
06:34:24 <Pikhq> What error is there in that?
06:34:32 <Pikhq> It's just a pointer to a pointer. . .
06:34:34 <oerjan> Just Nothing
06:34:40 <Pikhq> Exactly.
06:34:47 <bsmntbombdood> you can't reference on something that's not a valid lhs
06:35:09 <Pikhq> NULL is perfectly valid until you try to dereference it.
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06:50:03 <fizzie> "The operand of the unary & operator shall be either a function designator, the result of a [] or unary * operator, or an lvalue that designates an object that is not a bit field and is not declared with the register storage-class specifier."
06:50:13 <GreaseMonkey> what's this?
06:50:18 <fizzie> 0 (or any other constant) is not one of those.
06:50:24 <fizzie> GreaseMonkey; You missed:
06:50:27 <fizzie> 08:32:25 < Pikhq> &(void*)0;
06:50:29 <fizzie> 08:32:45 < Pikhq> What error is there in that?
06:51:48 <oerjan> hm... i don't think (void*)0 is an lvalue until you apply * to it
06:51:57 <GreaseMonkey> well, it would be pointing to codespace if it were possible
06:53:08 <fizzie> It might as well have to "point" to a register, if the "0" part was implemented with a "clear a register with a command like xor x, x".
06:53:57 <Pikhq> fizzie: A constant is not such an object, but a pointer to a constant *is*.
06:54:05 <Pikhq> Err.
06:54:12 <Pikhq> A pointer that's constant.
06:54:25 <fizzie> Yes, but "(void*)0" is a constant (a pointer, but still a constant), not an object in memory you could point at.
06:54:26 <oerjan> no, * of a pointer is such an object. not the pointer itself.
06:54:44 <Pikhq> Mmm.
06:54:49 <fizzie> There's nothing wrong with "void * foo = 0; &foo;" though.
06:54:50 -!- SF|008 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:54:55 <Pikhq> So, &(void*)0; is technically invalid.
06:55:16 <Pikhq> (more than technically; I think GCC would shoot me for it)
06:55:20 <fizzie> It's as invalid as "&1", even though that "should" be just a pointer to an integer.
06:55:54 <Pikhq> Except that the constant doesn't get any actual memory space allocated to it.
06:56:06 <fizzie> I'm not sure if there was even an explicit rule stating that the result of a cast operator is never an lvalue.
06:56:13 <fizzie> (void
06:56:18 <fizzie> Arr, enter-error.
06:56:27 <Pikhq> Uh. . .
06:56:28 <fizzie> But "(void*)0" needs no more memory space than "0" does.
06:57:33 <Pikhq> I don't think that works. . . (void *)some-random-integer-here is *surely* an lvalue. . .
06:57:56 <Pikhq> (regardless of how stupid of one it is. ;))
06:58:03 <fizzie> No, it's not. You can't assign to it; "(void *)42 = 69;" does not work at all.
06:58:24 <fizzie> After you dereference it with a *, it's an lvalue. "*(int *)42 = 69;" does "work".
06:59:43 <Pikhq> int *foo;(void *)foo = bar;
06:59:55 <Pikhq> I think in that case (void *)foo is a perfect lvalue.
06:59:58 <fizzie> You can't assign to the result of a cast expression.
07:00:02 <fizzie> It's not an lvalue.
07:00:24 <Pikhq> Now you see why you should never trust my first attempt at a C program.
07:00:27 <fizzie> test.c:3: error: invalid lvalue in assignment
07:00:41 * Pikhq really needs to memorize the rules for lvalues and such
07:01:13 <fizzie> If you really want to do what I think you'd want that to do, you have to say "int *foo; *(void **)foo = bar;"
07:01:28 <fizzie> Er, "*(void **)&foo = bar", I mean.
07:01:49 <Pikhq> Which, of course, is stupid.
07:02:09 <Pikhq> int *foo;foo=bar; is much shorter.
07:02:19 <Pikhq> Or even int *foo=bar;
07:02:43 <fizzie> It might not do the same thing, if void *s are different than int *s. (Although I don't think there are many cases where *(void **)&foo = bar would do the _right_ thing.)
07:02:47 <fizzie> I'd love to stay and quote more of the C standard, but have to hurry, there's the high-school-graduation-party of wife's younger brother to attend to.
07:03:47 <Pikhq> Mmkay.
07:03:57 * Pikhq will go get the C standard, and shove it firmly into head
07:05:09 <oerjan> o_O
07:09:44 <oklopol> ubuntu sucks ass, and windows is the exact same system with a lot of functionality removed.
07:09:56 <oklopol> i mean
07:10:03 <oklopol> except for the lost of"
07:10:10 <oklopol> *"
07:10:21 <oklopol> *lots
07:16:29 * Pikhq sleep need
07:17:32 <oklopol> school :<
07:17:34 <oklopol> --------------->
07:17:52 <oerjan> on saturday?
07:18:06 <oklopol> i get my grades
07:18:23 <oklopol> --------->
07:18:25 <oerjan> oh. good luck.
07:30:09 <bsmntbombdood> i hate the world
07:30:17 <GreaseMonkey> why?
07:30:24 <bsmntbombdood> many reasons
07:30:39 <GreaseMonkey> well, shit happens
07:31:02 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000781.html
07:31:03 <bsmntbombdood> for hat
07:31:04 <GreaseMonkey> and besides, if you're gonna cut your life short, you'll be doing nothing forevermore, which sucks more than life
07:31:05 <bsmntbombdood> *that
07:34:42 <GreaseMonkey> took me two minutes to make a c program that does that
07:35:07 <oerjan> that's one theory.  i go by the theory that people who commit suicide get reincarnated into a new life with the exact same kind of problems they didn't resolve in the previous one.
07:35:28 <oerjan> i.e. suicide helps nothing, period.
07:35:41 <bsmntbombdood> ha, reincarnation
07:37:24 <oerjan> but then everyone is so sure of things that everyone is probably going to be hugely surprised, assuming there is an afterlife at all
07:38:54 <oerjan> (including me)
07:39:07 <bsmntbombdood> no parse
07:40:12 <oerjan> eh, try replacing "that" with ", so"
07:47:01 <oerjan> ok, finished
07:47:22 <oerjan> eh wait
07:48:21 <oerjan> there
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08:30:17 <xororand> hi
08:30:33 <xororand> is there a networking extension for brainfuck or brainfYrk?
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08:46:48 <xororand> nevermind, i just discovered the easel api
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16:43:38 <Robdgreat> Hi.
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17:51:54 <Pikhq> Sal'.
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18:59:56 <oklopol> hmm, i wonder if i should fix my java documentation after 8 beers...
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