< 1182297645 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll find many more ways to be a fuckhead < 1182298191 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat him first < 1182298325 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better, get me to do so < 1182298364 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can share him < 1182298458 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refers to something he has mentioned on several other channels, though not here. < 1182298472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you have mentioned it here. < 1182298479 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1182298507 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins insanely. < 1182298516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barbeque party at SimonRC's! < 1182298532 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1182298627 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say anything about cooking < 1182298676 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, let's change the subject... < 1182298685 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice weather we're having. < 1182298736 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about oerjan's sexual deviations < 1182298745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1182298778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex with goats under the midnight sun. < 1182298826 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails to recall what "the midnight sun" is a euphamism for. < 1182298846 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the moon? < 1182298850 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it just when the sun is up at midnight in the far north? < 1182298852 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, RodgerTheGreat < 1182298856 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fluorescent lamp? < 1182298866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, really. He's far north, and during the summer there, it doesn't quite hit night. < 1182298874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the sun does set, IIRC) < 1182298939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1:20 am and the sky is nice and blue, although not exactly bright < 1182298954 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought midnight sun was a euphemism for an orgasm < 1182298967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without DST it's actually 0:20) < 1182299052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates your country. . . < 1182299064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to be *night* all day long for a while, too. :p < 1182299083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be around December. < 1182299085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not pleasant < 1182299099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. . . And you. . . < 1182299101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze. < 1182299111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will stick with his lower latitudes < 1182299230 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concatenates lament's last two remarks and laughs < 1182299244 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does the same < 1182299354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concatenates RodgerTheGreat's statement with lament's second to last statement < 1182299380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw Trondheim is at 63 degrees North < 1182299382 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result is nonsensical < 1182299410 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1182299413 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a dot in-between < 1182299428 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 23 more degrees north than 40 degrees north < 1182299431 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION re-reads < 1182299496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: My concatenation makes sense < 1182299515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fluorescent lamp? i thought mignight sun was a euphemism for an orgasm < 1182299530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Too far north. :p < 1182301331 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: could you *try* to explain that redcode IS the language used in corewars? < 1182301348 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have repeatedly failed to explain things like this to yuriks. < 1182301364 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is yuriks? < 1182301415 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very stubborn, and often hilariously wrong, programmer in another channel. < 1182301531 0 :Otakubot!n=OtakuPer@user-11fae58.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1182302449 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this channel? >:-) < 1182302536 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you ask, ihope? < 1182302560 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The >:-) doesn't give it away? :-P < 1182302595 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the >:-) gives me reason for caution < 1182302608 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is not itself a precise indicator < 1182304043 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is anybody else getting "precondition failed" on the wiki? < 1182304085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1182304863 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not coming from creating pages. < 1182304882 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hopefully creating subpages of Esolang:Sandbox at random doesn't annoy anybody.) < 1182305098 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it annoys me greatly < 1182305164 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I delete them right after? < 1182305593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT CLUTTERS UP THE RECENT CHANGES! < 1182305940 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't everything? < 1182305959 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins to lean toward "they < 1182305962 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re joking" < 1182306331 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swears at a guy who write like Joseph Conrad. < 1182306338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 80% < 1182306435 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1182306451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 80% joking < 1182306627 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joseph Conrad? < 1182306665 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody know what might be causing these precondition errors? < 1182306718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what were you trying to view? < 1182306728 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to create a page. < 1182306753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. maybe it's a spam filter or some unrecognized markup? < 1182306766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen such an error a long time ago, i think < 1182306850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to remove some part of the message, i think < 1182306906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get this error on preview? in which case you can easily experiment < 1182306944 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's because of the string "../" < 1182307010 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using dots instead of spaces for empty space in a two-dimensional language, so I can use spaces instead. < 1182307091 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also put inside there, but that's inelegant. < 1182307139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about an entity? not that i know the right ones for . or / < 1182307265 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or template substitution, which would also foil anybody's attempts at editing the page. >:-) < 1182307419 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that template substitution is actually possible. < 1182308750 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that _Imagining the Tenth Dimension_ is utter bullshit: http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php < 1182308759 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, that is an official video. < 1182308816 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joseph Conrad wrote _Heart of Darkness_, a book which I had to study in school and which is amazingly difficult to read. < 1182308856 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is almost indescribably dificult to read < 1182308871 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't be that hard to read merely by bad grammar, you have to have something else, I am not sure what < 1182309387 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it fiction? < 1182309400 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it claims to be fact < 1182309441 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Imagining the tenth dimension? Shouldn't we start by imagining the fourth spacial dimension?) < 1182309562 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video starts reasonable, but gradually descends into utter bullshit. < 1182309578 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's just adapted from the first chapter of the book. < 1182310267 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He cried in a whisper at some image, at some vision - he cried out twice, a cry that was no more than a breath - '"The horror! The horror!"' < 1182310287 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes a couple seconds to digest. < 1182310334 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how "a universe with different initial conditions" creates an "additional infinity", if infinity already represents everything that was or could result. < 1182310341 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be a causal loop. < 1182310349 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least, an oversight. < 1182310386 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps this just lies in poor wordings. < 1182310413 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terminology is crap, but I think there is more crap below that < 1182310419 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1182310436 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that video was adapted from part of Heart of Darkness? < 1182310441 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1182310443 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1182310451 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a little confused about those mixed references there < 1182310489 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing there's a Tenth Dimension book or something, then. < 1182310495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1182310503 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you followed the link < 1182310540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I either didn't notice that or assumed it was for Heart of Darkness or something. < 1182310543 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Godsdamnit people, string theory is not bullshit, it's theoretical-physics masturbation.) < 1182310568 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: erm, note the domain name? < 1182310587 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who says string theory is bullshit? < 1182310669 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people on furums that were discussing the book. < 1182310718 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple explanation: http://xkcd.com/c171.html < 1182310755 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing I call bullshit on in theoretical physics is the quantum physics is the concept that behavior is probabilistic and chaotic. Apparent chaos is an emergent property of sufficiently complex deterministic systems, damnit! < 1182310767 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is that quantum physics < 1182310784 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: lol < 1182310888 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I am assured that there are things that QM does that can't be done by hidden variable theories. < 1182310913 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hidden *variable*, hidden algorithm < 1182310978 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: you're saying the universe isn't random? < 1182310985 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1182310997 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does QM necessarily have randomness? < 1182310998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i think those proofs only work to disprove theories without faster-than-light communication < 1182311015 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that the many-worlds interpretation is probabilistic. < 1182311049 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that's a good point- strictly speaking, it isn't < 1182311186 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you remind me of one of my favorite John Von Neumann quotes: "If you can tell me what, precisely, it is that a computer cannot do, I will build you a computer that will do it." < 1182311218 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewing deterministic systems as computers, naturally, to make an analogy < 1182311222 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Alan Turing tell him what, precisely, it is that a computer cannot do? < 1182311295 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. I don't see your point. < 1182311311 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1182311312 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1182311319 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what you're getting at < 1182311327 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wasn't a question of computability < 1182311339 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a comparison of human abilities to that of a computer < 1182311368 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you do neatly deflate my analogy. touche. < 1182311399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: the only reason a computer cannot do something a human does is because we don't know precisely how a human does it < 1182311447 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah- that was *my* point < 1182311471 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm of the opinion that we can only effectively guess at quantum behavior because we don't fully understand how it works. < 1182311479 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, indeed. < 1182311586 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I cited the effectiveness of ordered systems at producing chaos as an example of a known example of an "opaque" algorithm. < 1182311621 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the Copenhagen and the many-worlds interpretations are pretty much the major ones, right? < 1182311642 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh my faith in humanity is destroyed < 1182311654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Again? < 1182311669 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1182311671 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it took was a few minutes reading blogs about Imagining the Tenth Dimension. < 1182311677 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands SimonRC a list of miracles with all instances of "God" replaced by "humanity" < 1182311678 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, geez < 1182311682 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, what'd they say? < 1182311692 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And isn't Copenhagen many-worlds plus observation, and can't the effects of observation be explained by entanglement?) < 1182311705 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were all amazed at it and said how it made string theory easier to understand < 1182311712 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blogs + wild speculative "science" = chaos. ironic. < 1182311734 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope bloggers aren't as smart as most people. < 1182311774 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you haven't seen "Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader"? < 1182311821 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1182311914 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We really need to put some more emphasis on education... < 1182311937 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start with education education, educating people about the benefits of education. < 1182312000 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially science and coding, though naturally we also need people to manage and govern and all that. < 1182312061 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking a while ago that schools should require reading and writing in early grades and then switch to a core curriculum of mathematics, philosophy and formal logic, with tons and tons of elective options (especially good options for the arts) < 1182312088 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Philosophy? Like... what sort of philosophy? < 1182312098 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like a foreign language and a simple coding language (LOGO anyone) should be taught from an early age < 1182312156 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: a wide range of schools of thought. Primarily to encourage ordered thoughts about things like ethics, religion and life. The application of the mind to the world. < 1182312176 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1182312185 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main goal would be to demolish taboos against scientific inquiry into various topics. < 1182312200 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to get people to ask questions. < 1182312203 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, functional? < 1182312220 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme < 1182312284 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOGO is as syntacticly pure as LISP, in many ways, and is more accessible. < 1182312333 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC (and I know this is a bit of personal bias) is an excellent language for beginners as well, in terms of quick rewards for experimentation and a very intuitive method of programming. < 1182312900 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reform of the school system won't solve anything < 1182312908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schools themselves are broken by design < 1182312914 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1182312948 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it's an unsolvable situation, it simply has more to do with the students than the concept of schools themselves < 1182312964 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to want to learn to truly grow from education < 1182312982 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schools aren't designed for learning < 1182313005 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't speak for universitys) < 1182313005 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, solve it on a societal level. Make people want to learn, and schools will reshape themselves to suit the proactive desires of the students < 1182313030 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make people do anything < 1182313035 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying schools are unflawed, but they have some redeeming facets < 1182313044 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if society is fucked, society is fucked < 1182313052 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we deserve to be extinct < 1182313060 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make people DO anything, but immense evidence suggests that you can make people WANT something. < 1182313128 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think centralized schooling can foster education < 1182313165 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, enlighten us with your wisdom in alternative education strategies. < 1182313195 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think people should seek education on their own, in their own way < 1182313272 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone is cut out for that type of education. Those that want it already do. We need a way of convincing more people that it's important and worthwhile. < 1182313273 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1182313324 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just let the stupid people be stupid? < 1182313351 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my case, my high-school didn't offer any computers courses at all. I still took as many science and math classes I could, and explored programming and computers in my own time. Few of my peers have the same level of interest, and thus few of my peers in college have my level of skill and knowledge. < 1182313364 0 :EagleBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1182313365 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's needlessly fatalistic. < 1182313376 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to examine where the motivation for education is rooted. < 1182313390 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the math and science courses in my high school aren't educational < 1182313451 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :view public school to education as wikipedia is to proper research: an outline, a starting point, not necessarily a complete corpus. < 1182313474 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like that < 1182313478 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like daycare < 1182313490 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing insightful is offered < 1182313562 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't pretend I enjoyed highschool. However, I know for a fact that if you enter a class with a chip on your shoulder, you won't learn a damn thing. Even the most incompetent teachers taught me things, wether it was the subject of the class or not. Be openminded. < 1182313618 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hasn't been my experience < 1182313730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the thing my teachers have taught me is that schools are broken < 1182313879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you expect to get, is what you will usually get. < 1182313911 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADD 1 TO oerjan GIVING oerjan < 1182313923 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the more conventional, oerjan++; < 1182313927 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high expectations don't improve the conditions < 1182313961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they improve your ability to make the best out of the conditions. < 1182314020 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just leave you dissapointed < 1182314172 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seemed to learn just fine in school < 1182314186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a book about this i read, it's called "The Luck Factor". the author carried out experiments to find out whether there were people who actually were lucky. < 1182314204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly, the answer was yes. < 1182314220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most deciding factor was optimism. < 1182314245 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can measure luck < 1182314279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, people could improve their luck by changing their outlook. < 1182314284 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1182314292 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "luck" < 1182314327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the experiments involved putting a bill on the street in front of a place the subjects were going to meet the experimenters. < 1182314332 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1182314366 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I would define luck as the perception of one's tendency to success or failure. Key word: perception. < 1182314370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lucky optimists picked up the bill, the unlucky pessimists simply ignored it as if it wasn't there. < 1182314379 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1182314392 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they ignore it? < 1182314437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember but my understanding is simply that they were so _determined_ to believe they were unlucky that they refused to sense any opportunity for the opposite. < 1182314505 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be other factors when deciding to pick up money off the street < 1182314507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, people unconsciously act to reinforce their beliefs, even if they believe they don't. < 1182314516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and, having made this discovery that shakes the foundations of modern physics, what did he do next? < 1182314543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he actually didn't prove anything directly anti-scientific. < 1182314581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i could see. < 1182314585 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1182314590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, clearly he published a book. < 1182314672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally, his definition of luck was not about being able to influence dice or that kind of thing, it was about practical luck < 1182314694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since i read it. < 1182314732 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, g'night everyone- I need to hit the hay < 1182314736 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that matches what I think < 1182314749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i remember we had a similar conversation < 1182314766 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1182314771 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think that it is very difficult to change your own attaitude without assistance. < 1182314830 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, if you are unlucky you still can't just change to being lucky without help, but for a different reason < 1182314887 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: If someone is helping you to change yourself, then by definition you aren't doing it without assistance. < 1182314892 0 :c|p!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1182315020 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzz < 1182316491 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1167902903.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1182318110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"znore" < 1182319694 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182319698 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80-162.cust.umeaenergi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1182321221 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=ieatyou@222-154-131-169.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1182322352 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Sleep" < 1182326399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1182326400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1182328785 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sukoshi` < 1182328868 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sukoshi < 1182333965 0 :Mechminx!n=hockingt@CPE-124-187-251-31.vic.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1182333971 0 :Mechminx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1182336264 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-037-008.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1182336770 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1182341006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1182341119 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-125.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1182347753 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182347763 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1182347866 0 :c|p!n=wil@unaffiliated/cp/x-000001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1182348385 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182350180 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Epigram. You can define functions that return different types based on whether their arguments are multiples of 3. < 1182353949 0 :jix_____!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-183-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1182354081 0 :jix_____!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1182354174 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1182354320 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1182354532 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for another esolang... < 1182356128 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the idea? < 1182356154 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitqueues < 1182356166 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have to do physics homework first < 1182356191 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, using things so mundane as bits? Why not use billiard balls instead? < 1182356193 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1182356228 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bits work quite nice..... < 1182358356 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1182358416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182358761 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182359291 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]" < 1182359872 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182360381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1182361728 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1182363889 0 :crathman!n=chatzill@69.15.198.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1182364899 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182364920 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182365096 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1182365418 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182365620 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1182365623 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1182365638 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VAMOS A BOT < 1182365645 0 :EagleBot!n=EagleBot@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182365653 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? There's the bot. < 1182366231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1182366241 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182366290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. . . < 1182366290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be better off with smoke signals in LA. < 1182366290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*STOP LAGGING, DAMN IT!* < 1182366296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get connected, and the lag time immediately starts counting. :( < 1182366306 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn off the lag timer! < 1182366335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Join to #esoteric was synced in 74 secs" < 1182366342 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez < 1182366386 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74 seconds is not that bad. < 1182366485 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74 seconds is fairly bad when we're talking about something like IRC < 1182366508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze. I'd have better response times from the ISS. < 1182366515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My lag time is 24 seconds. < 1182366515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And counting. < 1182366764 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends pikhq a CTCP PING < 1182366876 0 :crathman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]" < 1182366927 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two minutes, 30 seconds. < 1182366936 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty darn bad. < 1182367356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1182367512 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182367543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's hoping that it decides to be more obedient. < 1182367562 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it puts the lotion on its face or else it gets the hose again! < 1182367572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no. < 1182367589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It puts the packet in its tube or else it gets the SIGKILL again. < 1182367980 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends pikhq another CTCP PING < 1182367990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION noticed < 1182367990 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, ten seconds! < 1182368122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now. < 1182368400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.431 seconds to ihope. < 1182368423 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're getting replies from me faster than I am? < 1182368433 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pings himself again < 1182368456 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consistently above 1 second. < 1182368570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistently around 0.5 seconds. < 1182368717 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-183-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1182368997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182369005 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182369309 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1182369413 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182369517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1182369527 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1182369688 0 :Barrucadu!n=mike@adsl-83-100-162-136.karoo.KCOM.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1182369809 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1182369814 0 :Barrucadu!n=mike@adsl-83-100-162-136.karoo.KCOM.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1182369947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason for the /leave, Barrucadu? < 1182370091 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barrucadu: your language, HEX < 1182370114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barrucadu: has one big problem < 1182370129 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barrucadu: it lacks easily addressable memory < 1182370147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barrucadu: since each piece of memory has to be created individually and with a unique name < 1182370230 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not critical in itself, since it's an esolang < 1182370272 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs don't have to be sane < 1182370285 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does make programming much, much harder < 1182370298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1182370328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the size of each individual piece (bug) is limited, that means the overall amount of memory available is finite, so the language cannot be turing-complete. < 1182370364 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a limit, its being set by PHP, i'll just check the documentation < 1182370379 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1182370389 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a good idea to define YOUR language in terms of PHP. < 1182370406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if PHP changes, does that mean your language changes too? < 1182370417 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language is a separate entity < 1182370426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with its own specification < 1182370432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but the only thing that makes you think there is a limit is the PHP implementation. < 1182370440 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the interpreter is written in PHP, and I haven't set any limits < 1182370444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barrucadu: right < 1182370462 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter the way it's written now has a limit < 1182370478 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the spec should say so or the interpreter should be changed.... < 1182370492 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and i should do physics homework :/ < 1182370499 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have lots of precedent of not specifying memory size < 1182370502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting with brainfuck < 1182370515 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's always nicer when things are explicit < 1182370526 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you hit this limit? must have been a pretty big value < 1182370654 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1182370662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you have changed the interpreter, because now i can't add two numbers < 1182370667 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1182370684 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't? damn... < 1182370691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is made up of bugs, they keep moving all the time :) < 1182370727 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, there's just been a small syntax change < 1182370742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with this program? < 1182370742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBL; < 1182370742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "99999"); < 1182370742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("bar", "1"); < 1182370742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breed("foo" + "bar"); < 1182370745 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scuttle("foo"); < 1182370747 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write; < 1182370772 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, works for me < 1182370789 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get melon melon melon. < 1182370816 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, works now < 1182370820 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i reloaded the page) < 1182370825 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love my error messages :) < 1182370949 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1182370964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBL; < 1182370964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "9999999999999"); < 1182370966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "9999999999999Bug("bar", "1"); < 1182370966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breed("foo" + "bar"); < 1182370966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breed("foo" - "bar"); < 1182370968 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scuttle("foo"); < 1182370971 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write; < 1182370977 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that paste correctly < 1182370999 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi always has problems pasting stuff :( < 1182371013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second line seems broken < 1182371022 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBL; < 1182371022 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "9999999999999"); < 1182371023 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "Bug("foo", "9999999999999Bug("bar", "1");" should be "Bug("bar", "1");"? < 1182371025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "9999999999999Bug("bar", "1"); < 1182371025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breed("foo" + "bar"); < 1182371025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breed("foo" - "bar"); < 1182371025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scuttle("foo"); < 1182371027 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1182371028 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write; < 1182371030 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god fucking damn it < 1182371034 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and darn it all to heck < 1182371041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks irssi < 1182371051 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "9999999999999"); < 1182371051 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("bar", "1"); < 1182371071 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run that program, then remove the Breed statements and run it again. < 1182371146 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the first time it gives "1E+13", the second "9999999999999". even though they are both the same < 1182371294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182371310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so weird, a slight rounding off error would do that. < 1182371322 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182371376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that indicates the implementation does not use unbounded integers < 1182371678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Supper" < 1182371799 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to find the maxmimum number you can calculate in HEX < 1182371866 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it. < 1182371873 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBL; < 1182371875 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug("foo", "99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999"); < 1182371883 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breed("foo" * "foo"); < 1182371888 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scuttle("foo"); < 1182371892 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write;' < 1182371901 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :results in +++ INF +++ < 1182371949 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can figure out how, i'll write a compiler at some point, so there will be no limit < 1182372102 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll also begin thinking of a way to get around that limit < 1182372124 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any implementation is going to have limits < 1182372146 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, have a bigger limit then < 1182372171 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just important that the language doesn't have limits if you want it to be turing complete < 1182372589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a difference between a limit on the size of numbers and the size of what can be stored. < 1182372603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like he can actually *store* any number of variables. < 1182372668 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the number is limited by the size of the program < 1182372675 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as in SMETANA < 1182372709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1182372710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesa. < 1182372733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the limit itself is adjustable. < 1182372841 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's not enough for turing-completeness. < 1182372846 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes. < 1182372871 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can solve any problem that halts by giving it adequate memory. < 1182372891 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can in Smetana; i don't know about HEX but i'm sure it's possible) < 1182372905 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, you don't know in advance if the memory will be adequate < 1182372963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's to stop you from having a oo filesize? < 1182372964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you don't know whether the problem halts < 1182372973 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the definition of algorithm. < 1182373026 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cheating, a finite-state automaton with infinite states :) < 1182373046 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would also mean your variable names in themselves get infinitely long < 1182373052 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1182373118 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sits back and watches the discussion about turing-completeness < 1182373152 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls out his box of string and apples < 1182373154 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1182373162 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I *shouldn't* bring this out... < 1182373170 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides the box < 1182373212 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general though, there's nothing wrong wiht infinite programs < 1182373230 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get them in self-modifying languages by growing the source dynamically, and nobody complains < 1182373273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game of life is normally presumed to be played on an infinite field and nobody complains either < 1182373433 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the reason is that the game of life doesn't have explicit labels < 1182373440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg the cells aren't named < 1182373448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in smetana they are, and the names would get infinitely long < 1182373459 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the same in HEX obviously) < 1182373520 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even if I can't get it to be turing-complete, I achieved my goal of making a Discworld-themed language < 1182374631 0 :Barrucadu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1182374851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182374969 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1182375274 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182375713 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he achieved that. < 1182376229 0 :erider!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I don't sleep because sleep is the cousin of death!" < 1182376651 0 :erider!n=erider@unaffiliated/erider JOIN :#esoteric < 1182376721 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds the original Bill Gates "640k" quote. < 1182376732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it go? < 1182376816 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/579818 < 1182376840 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly: "I have to say that in 1981 making those decisions, I felt like I was providing enough freedom for ten years." < 1182377004 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between 6 and 10 isn't that big. < 1182377012 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yeah < 1182378093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182378115 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, gates predicts that unix would get a standard in the early 90s < 1182378119 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182378129 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he predicted that OS/2 would be the future < 1182378138 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you win some you lose some < 1182378760 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1182378841 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182378934 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what he does these days < 1182378969 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1182379530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :charity < 1182379602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1182379717 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And own Microsoft. < 1182379724 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1182379750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he doesn't step down for another year or so < 1182379751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1182379770 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is stepping down? < 1182379846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#Transition < 1182380349 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i can take his job < 1182380382 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you'd like it < 1182380415 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definately not < 1182380423 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He still looks like a geek. < 1182380435 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... < 1182380439 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real geeks are poor < 1182380513 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real geeks don't have marketable skills < 1182380526 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i designed a damn good esolang once... < 1182380527 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1182380532 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear: He says that networking will become standard for PCs, he says that data (maps, encyclopedias, etc) is important, and he says that you need hypertext to navigte all the data... < 1182380547 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he doesn't connect the two together. < 1182380591 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple's going to have to get off the 68000 at some point" < 1182380606 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on to one of these RISC instruction sets." < 1182380610 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops! < 1182380989 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how much of Microsoft does Gates own? < 1182381139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1182381145 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That much? < 1182381197 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to be the chairman of Microsoft. < 1182381295 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Executive chairman. < 1182382103 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1182383552 0 :gnilor!n=gnilor@d51A5D5AD.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1182383563 0 :gnilor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a script somewhere, that translates "text" into brainfuck programs < 1182383621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1182383652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one in EgoBot, if that had been here. < 1182383670 0 :gnilor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, well no biggy i'll script it up < 1182383684 0 :gnilor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that i'm lazy < 1182383733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also pikhq's PEBBLE < 1182383745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although pikhq just left too < 1182383768 0 :gnilor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found something through google < 1182383784 0 :gnilor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it missed the personnal touch that a bot could have provided ;) < 1182383929 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use egobot's java < 1182383951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses a genetic algorithm to get the result as small as possible