< 1183421135 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@208-180-8-45-static-hsb.provalue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183421198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIVE!!!! < 1183421213 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO, YOU DEAD. < 1183421239 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET BACK IN COFFIN. < 1183421244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION refuses
< 1183421254 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1183421271 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mommy, pikhq won't stay dead! < 1183421375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< ihope_'s mom> Tought. < 1183421401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tough, even. < 1183421419 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION searches his pockets
< 1183421439 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you a dollar if you stay dead until Dad gets home! < 1183421983 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183422008 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=pwnsj00@222-154-133-27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183422156 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a better windows 3.1 bootdisk: http://greasemonkey.nonlogic.org/w31boot.img < 1183422190 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183422205 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello everybody... < 1183422262 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1183422310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1183422326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: That is technically in violation of Nonlogic's policy. < 1183422336 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry, i better delete it then < 1183422350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to you. < 1183422477 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed. i'll put a tutorial up soon. < 1183422859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nonlogic's policy states that you're not allowed to upload anything you don't have permission to. . . So, instructions would be okay, an actual disk wouldn't be (unless, of course, it's an open source/free software program ;))) < 1183423722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"for the need to encumber" < 1183423766 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183423986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is damned impressed. . .
< 1183423997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban == :-O < 1183424006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's grammer is actually defined in YACC. < 1183424026 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does it make proper use of Broca's area? < 1183424073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1183424086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't, these days < 1183424089 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This requires a search for 'broca lojban'. < 1183424106 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ask someone with Broca's aphasia. < 1183424160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know any? < 1183424171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------> < 1183424268 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :godsdamnit < 1183424279 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses immibis
< 1183424292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you're asking whether people can actually speak it. < 1183424299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is 'yes'. < 1183424338 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban grammar may look like the predicate calculus, but it is not logical < 1183424350 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a proper logical language, try Ithkuil. < 1183424370 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a proper logical language that you can pronounce, try Ilaksh, by the same author. < 1183424393 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/francestore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=9469E545&nplm=TM258" < 1183424407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more logical than C's syntax. . . < 1183424411 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy had to invent dozens ofnew names for all the new inflections he was creating < 1183424413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, so's English. :p < 1183424420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Jeeze*. < 1183424423 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1183424431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just talking about the new inflections. < 1183424470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need to use the talkaboutative case < 1183424472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that it can't readily be expressed in IPA? < 1183424477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1183424486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inflections == grammer, not phonetics. :p < 1183424521 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPA can handle it except for the bidental fricative. < 1183424531 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I didn't mean inflections < 1183424555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1183424564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my brain's even more confused than I thought. < 1183424641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my brain's perfectly fine. < 1183424647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You meant something else. . . < 1183424659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say, "phonemes"? < 1183424674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never trust a brain that thinks it's perfectly fine. < 1183424713 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain has flaws! < 1183424722 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? I'm trustworthy. < 1183424723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to confirm it with an outside source, okay? < 1183424771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never trust an outside source to understand your brain! < 1183424778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, always be paranoid! < 1183424815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1183424819 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bes paranoid
< 1183424822 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... < 1183424830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I know that you are lieing? < 1183424914 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what was the lie? < 1183424949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"never trust an outside source" < 1183425015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was _not_ my whole sentence. < 1183425026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you failed to understand my brain! < 1183425029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected. < 1183425039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I intentionally misled you. < 1183425044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your paranoia has failed you. < 1183425048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or has it?) < 1183425064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was lying about the paranoid part. < 1183425143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me on that. < 1183425233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a book on lojban, ithkuil or ilaksh? < 1183425239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, dl'able :) < 1183425252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Lojban, yes. < 1183425272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be seen? < 1183425274 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilaksh is written in two dimensions. < 1183425277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The defining book is under the Creative Commons license. . . < 1183425278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1183425280 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's not SPOKEN in two dimensions. < 1183425295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Home+Page&bl < 1183425301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is creative commons? < 1183425317 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not up to having to say arbitrarily many things at the same time. < 1183425360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons Welcome to a free culture. ;) < 1183425460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1183425482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i just categorize that into open source) < 1183425488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though) < 1183425497 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/94251 < 1183425536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *related*. < 1183425558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main difference between a free culture and a free software license is that a free culture license applies to *any* work. < 1183425610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same principle, though. < 1183425637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/13461 i find this one much better < 1183425657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1183425663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it to be a better culture. < 1183426208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to update his GPL versions. . .
< 1183426371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to sleep
< 1183426373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon < 1183426387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i have any need < 1183426445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's the most rational choise ---------> < 1183429205 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzz < 1183429538 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://greasemonkey.nonlogic.org/?render=xhtml11&page=tutorials_win31 < 1183429560 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't find windows 3.1 anywhere, go to vetusware.com < 1183430488 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"getting off for now, testing something, then will be afk" < 1183430939 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183431465 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1183431496 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183431556 0 :toBogE!n=toBogE@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183431585 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM TOBOGE, MASTER OF EVERYTHING TOBOGE! < 1183431744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PIKHQ, MASTER OF PEBBLE! (now available in GPLv3!) < 1183431795 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO CARES, I'M TOBOGE! < 1183431812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shoves PEBBLE down your through
< 1183431821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throat, even. < 1183431825 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me does not have a throat, pikhq < 1183431846 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i has an internet! < 1183431847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still does so
< 1183431866 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ALL SUCK < 1183431879 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout("I agree!") < 1183431879 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree! < 1183431920 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.raw("QUIT :Excess Flood") < 1183431921 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Excess Flood" < 1183431925 0 :bsmnt_bot!n=bsmnt@abacus.kwzs.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1183431960 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec "i=0\nwhile i<5:\n sys.stdout("I spammed.")\n i=i+1" < 1183431960 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1183431966 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what did bfm become? < 1183431985 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec exec "i=0\nwhile i<5: sys.stdout("I spammed.")\n i=i+1" < 1183431986 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1183432000 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys.stdout(1+2j+3+4j) < 1183432007 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout(1+2j+3+4j) < 1183432008 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4+6j) < 1183432029 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone please say !irp Someone please repeat this request < 1183432031 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec self.ban(r".*125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz.*") < 1183432036 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone please say !irp Someone please repeat this request putting !irp in front of it < 1183432050 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!irp Someone please repeat this request putting !irp in front of it < 1183432050 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone please repeat this request putting !irp in front of it < 1183432063 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!irp Someone please repeat this request putting !irp in front of it < 1183432066 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone please repeat this request putting !irp in front of it < 1183432072 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Don't_cause_infinite_loops_error < 1183432169 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY! I AM such AN IDIOT! < 1183432256 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?what toboge < 1183432256 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOBOGE IS AN IDIOT! I AM AN IDIOT! DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME OTHERWISE! < 1183432337 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a bot < 1183432339 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not a bot < 1183432344 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not a bot i mean < 1183432344 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not not a bot i mean < 1183432347 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: take it elsewhere < 1183432361 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1183432385 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant me, right? not the bot? because the bot is ok it's just me thats an idiot. < 1183432401 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you too < 1183432419 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :respond using !raw PRIVMSG #toboge :MESSAGE < 1183432745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: BFM became PEBBLE. < 1183432763 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's pfuck? < 1183432776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFUCK used to be called basm. < 1183432782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why you ask
< 1183432807 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basm != bfm? < 1183432834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFUCK is a Brainfuck->C compiler written in PEBBLE. < 1183432835 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFUCK is not a Brainfuck->C compiler written in PEBBLE. < 1183432854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toBogE needs to be kicked. < 1183432863 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ask because someone came in here with something very similar to pebble < 1183432875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1183432879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to see
< 1183432998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When? < 1183433073 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember < 1183433171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the logs
< 1183433256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it. < 1183433262 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep pikhq|grep -i pebble < 1183433286 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183433315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's got a nicer documentation, but mine's a good deal lower-level. . . < 1183433382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His reminds me more of bfcomp than of PEBBLE. < 1183433450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't see any macros. < 1183433532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You lose the right to call a language even *similar* to PEBBLE without macros. ;) < 1183433666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~asimakis/FBF.html is the language, for the logs' sake. < 1183433775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1183433783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler is *remarkably* less efficient, as well. < 1183433789 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1183433844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you think a *row* of ++++'s and ---'s is a good way to do strings? < 1183433860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine's not the most efficient, but at least it's *sane*. . . < 1183433922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mine writes them in the Brainfuck memory using wrapping, two-cell implementations of the constants) < 1183433976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I should probably set up a way of doing output without writing strings into memory, and instead just using two cells. . . < 1183433981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be a bit cleaner. < 1183434085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to implement stringout
< 1183434775 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice < 1183434818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can figure out where the bugs lay, it *will* be. < 1183434970 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, not very usefull, but still cool < 1183435036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, if it works right, it'll make PFUCK much shorter in Brainfuck. < 1183435125 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how to space-effieciently print in string in brainfuck < 1183435273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it working. < 1183435333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now in SVN. < 1183435595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1183436160 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night, everyone < 1183436168 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1183436573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down in character count by a hell of a lot. . . < 1183437269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Hello, World!" looks a hell of a lot cleaner. < 1183437305 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[.>] < 1183437356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, wha? < 1183437372 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1183438291 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1088703659.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1183438656 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183438909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t! < 1183438927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFUCK now compiles LostKingdom in 0.172 seconds. < 1183438965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've roughly halved compilation time for that. :D < 1183438978 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilation time is meh < 1183438988 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed of the compiled code is what's important < 1183439001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed of the compiled code's not changed much. . . < 1183439045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly efficient for a compiler in Brainfuck, though. < 1183439174 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimize! < 1183439180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *does*. < 1183439188 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more! < 1183439191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only so much optimization you can do sanely in Brainfuck. < 1183439204 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be insane then < 1183439226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't writing a compiler that *targets* Brainfuck insane enough?!? < 1183439240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or writing an engine for an adventure game in Brainfuck? < 1183439244 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1183439255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only an engine, since I have no idea what to put in the game yet) < 1183439267 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an engine in brainfuck? are you crazy? < 1183439282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: Ever heard of LostKingdom? < 1183439283 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people actually write real programs in brainfuck? < 1183439292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1183439318 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LINK. NOW. < 1183439340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what? < 1183439350 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game engine :D < 1183439372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1183439383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've not uploaded it, because it's, uh, still buggy. . . < 1183439424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me just finish switching the thing over to stringout, and I'll tar it up. < 1183439889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/game.tar.bz2 Incomplete and buggy, but it works. < 1183439896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sp3tt: ;) < 1183439903 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1183439925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends upon PEBBLE, and build.sh assumes the existence of pfuck. . . < 1183439965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it could use some cleanup. < 1183439982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably *before* I use it to write a full game. < 1183440018 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, that's awesome! < 1183440041 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world's first brainfuck mud, that would pwn. < 1183440052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the first. < 1183440059 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1183440067 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mud is multiplayer, pikhq. brainfuck doesn't have networking capabilities. < 1183440073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1183440075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dur. < 1183440081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: Not yet. :p < 1183440091 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUD stands for "Multi-User Dungeon" < 1183440093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't pull up the page for LostKingdom. :(
< 1183440106 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be the second interactive fiction game written in brainfuck though. < 1183440132 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I s'pose you could add networking. < 1183440147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: Which is, of course, the idea. < 1183440156 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could define something like @... < 1183440171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it is to demonstrate PEBBLE, and part of it is sheer insanity. < 1183440198 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ uses two arguments, ip-address and port... then everything up to the next @ is sent... < 1183440200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sp3tt: Or you could do something with a wrapper on I/O. < 1183440201 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e < 1183440421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20060904163623/http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html There we go. < 1183440564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what you think of his most recent bit of insanity
< 1183441293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1183441459 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1183441471 0 :immybo!n=IceChat7@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183443017 0 :immybo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1183443028 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183446865 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=ohnoes@222-154-133-27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183446870 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello greasemonkey < 1183446923 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1183448262 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"WeeChat 0.2.5" < 1183448803 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would i go about making a new language which was an extension of brainfuck but has a ~ command which returns the pointer to cell 0? < 1183448867 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there some other way to return the pointer to cell 0 if you don't know where it is? < 1183449599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1183449600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1183452687 0 :Sukoshi!n=Sukoshi@user-11fab8o.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1183454471 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Brainfuck-Asembler to Brainfuck compiler produced a Hello World file of over 5KB! < 1183454476 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is untested < 1183454692 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only possible way is destructive and requires that < at cell 0 stays at cell 0 < 1183454718 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1183454739 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did skip - cell - skip - cell - skip - cell - ... < 1183454789 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do something < 1183454792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens in cell 0 stays in cell 0. < 1183454796 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that preserves data < 1183454806 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant memory cell < 1183454917 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about setting cell 0 to some random value like -266 and going backwards until you find a cell with -266? if -266 is unlikely to be used then that would work < 1183455013 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i could make my interpreter (and compiler) use another (non-standard) command which goes to cell 0. < 1183455288 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1183455291 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"IceChat - Chillin with the Best of em" < 1183458861 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep, gnight < 1183458894 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hasta la Vista(R)" < 1183466711 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.19.82.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183468381 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anybody knows any good links for the brainfuck language please submit them to dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Brainfuck/ < 1183468401 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will review and add them today. < 1183468915 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183469444 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183470408 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183470807 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders SKI in Python
< 1183470878 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval self.combS = lambda x: lambda: lambda y: lambda: lambda z: lambda: x(z)()(y(z)())() < 1183470910 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval self.combK = lambda x: lambda: lambda y: lambda: x < 1183470924 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval self.combI = lambda x: lambda: x < 1183470957 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval self.combS(self.combI)()(self.combI)()(self.combS(self.combI)()(self.combI)())() < 1183470962 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ps < 1183470963 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 'self.handle_callback(message, m, i)', 0.00 seconds < 1183470976 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval sys.stdout(self.combS(self.combI)()(self.combI)()(self.combS(self.combI)()(self.combI)())()) < 1183470991 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ps < 1183470991 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 'self.handle_callback(message, m, i)', 0.00 seconds < 1183471010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with the argumentless lambdas? < 1183471019 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunks! < 1183471052 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laziness. < 1183473016 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-125.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1183473033 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sup, everyone? < 1183473049 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1183473062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have 'inf, thank you < 1183473064 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval sys.stdout(self.combS) < 1183473070 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it going, ihope_, oerjan? < 1183473080 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1183473121 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got back from my new cryptography class- it looks like it'll be a lot of fun < 1183473129 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like it. < 1183473134 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads of opportunities for little programming projects < 1183473142 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1183473144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you can decipher it... < 1183473152 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1183473171 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders thunks
< 1183473198 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes. < 1183473225 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Haskell definition "x = x + 1", calling the x thunk calls the + thunk with x and 1, right? < 1183473230 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mildly frightened when the teacher started writing on the board, but then I'm like "oh, ok- set builder notation... equivalence operators... e for "encrypt", d for "decrypt", etc" < 1183473241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1183473276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose so < 1183473282 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about "x = (x +)"? I mean, besides the fact that it's a type error... < 1183473303 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling the x thunk... returns something representing (x +), I guess. < 1183473303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x +) is an abbreviation for (+) x < 1183473316 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is.. < 1183473334 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.././ < 1183473472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, x = 1:x is well-typed < 1183473506 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pondering thunks for functions. < 1183473523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c, what about x = (1+) . x < 1183473584 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183473601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an evaluated function thunk can be thought of as a lambda expression in head normal form < 1183473644 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, their thunks don't need to do anything at all--they can just return. < 1183473678 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invokes the logs
< 1183473705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, consider x = if (1<2) then (x+) else (x-) < 1183473734 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes. < 1183473738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _is_ a requirement that it reduces to one of the branches. < 1183473792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just because a thunk is of a function type doesn't mean it does no evaluation < 1183473804 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Head normal form is when the function takes some values then immediately requires one of them, right? < 1183473834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak head normal form, i mean < 1183473847 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? < 1183473879 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When its result is a constructor applied to other things? < 1183473911 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evaluated as far as seq requires, that is? < 1183473925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means (\x -> something) < 1183473937 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1183473973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the function requires another argument before it can do anything < 1183473980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's what you said < 1183473996 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . then immediately requires one of them? < 1183474021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not. < 1183474042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, (\x -> undefined) is in WHNF. < 1183474056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't have to be actually used. < 1183474062 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1183474086 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders
< 1183474096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can think of lambdas as the constructors of functions. < 1183474135 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does the fact that it's recursive make "x = if (1<2) then (x+) else (x-)" not WHNF? < 1183474154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the recursivity has nothing to do with it. < 1183474172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a back pointer usually. < 1183474217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant fact is that the right side _can_ be evaluated a bit without giving x arguments < 1183474259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it is not simply a constructor application. < 1183474380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. x = \y -> 1 + x y is WHNF < 1183474397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think it's what x = (1+) . x would reduce to < 1183474400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1183474454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, maybe not exactly, but close enough. < 1183474494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the purity and referential transparency gives compilers quite a bit of leeway in how much to reduce when < 1183474503 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1183474606 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1183475876 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1183478928 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-045-089.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1183479199 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183479591 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-180-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1183479903 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1183479947 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.234 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183480091 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1183480237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Dinner" < 1183480302 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-68.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1183481464 0 :Tok-A-Mak!i=Tok-A-Ma@84-75-83-209.dclient.hispeed.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1183482461 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso! < 1183483667 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1183484133 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ducks!" < 1183484191 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183484706 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eso! < 1183484798 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: did you know you're the owner of #kilgame? < 1183484866 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1183484867 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i? < 1183484893 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1183484901 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are. < 1183484920 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never been there in my life. < 1183484934 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather odd, isn't it? < 1183484943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extremely. < 1183485018 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's really not quite that odd. < 1183485045 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's yours for the taking, and I have to reboot. < 1183485245 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183487524 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-68.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1183488630 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1183488631 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1183488793 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183488990 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183489007 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183491768 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183493486 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.19.82.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183494009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, *. < 1183494034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any idea how to test to see if something is within '0 < 1183494040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'...'9' in Brainfuck? < 1183494094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtract '0'-1, check if non-zero, subtract 10, check if zero? < 1183494140 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't actually know how to check for zero in a sane fashion) < 1183494159 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also this won't work with signed memory) < 1183494185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assumed unsigned wrapping in PEBBLE. . . < 1183494228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(foo-=47)if(!(foo-=10))is_numeric < 1183494228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first solve the easier problem of checking for a specific character < 1183494244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can always just check for 10 specific characters :) < 1183494245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *that's* easy in PEBBLE. . . < 1183494252 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with bsmnt_bot < 1183494257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering if there's a saner way to do it. < 1183494259 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout(111) < 1183494260 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111 < 1183494262 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183494275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys. < 1183494276 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing < 1183494283 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt_bot: you have no imagination < 1183494284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1183494295 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout(sys.stdout) < 1183494296 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<__main__.IRCFileWrapper instance at 0xb7c5fb0c> < 1183494310 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.__stdout__ < 1183494320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.__stdout__.write("Where am I writing to?") < 1183494336 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a terminal < 1183494361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-]>]>]>]>]>]>]>]>]>]>] < 1183494383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a > in the innermost, too < 1183494396 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmnt_bot: reassigning sys.stdout is ugly < 1183494396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What's the purpose of the ">"s? < 1183494405 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why? < 1183494417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to wrap his head around that
< 1183494418 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: because everybody expects it to be stdout. < 1183494424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it out of the way once it has subtracted the required number < 1183494430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or reached 0 < 1183494435 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only stdout for a bot is the current channel < 1183494437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh wait < 1183494445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work. < 1183494475 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so? this is still unpythonic. Besides, it's clearly not the only stdout, otherwise you wouldn't need that __stdout__ thing. < 1183494501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the idea is to never repeat a loop < 1183494502 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to differentiate between the channel and the terminal < 1183494503 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it _were_ the only stdout, you'd simply pipe the output. < 1183494511 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, the terminal is stdout, the channel isn't. < 1183494528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1183494554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do the horrendously annoying subtract 1, boolnot, repeat bit. . . But that is *really* clunky. < 1183494560 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: un UNIX, stdout is a fairly well-defined term that means the same thing to everybody. You're redefining its meaning. < 1183494563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in UNIX < 1183494586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a shell that begs to differ. < 1183494589 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing to the terminal in an ~exec doesn't make any sense, printing to the channel does < 1183494592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "Foo" > stdout < 1183494601 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec print "hi" < 1183494606 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: then why does printing not work? < 1183494607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. We've changed the meaning of stdout. < 1183494614 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: because python is broken < 1183494624 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: no, because what you're trying to do is unpythonic. < 1183494728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec print "Hi\n" < 1183494866 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1183494875 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec print >> sys.stdout, "hi" < 1183494875 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1183494880 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec print "hi" < 1183494885 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, broken < 1183494903 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"print x" is supposed to be exactly the same as "print >> sys.stdout, x" < 1183495004 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1183495533 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it < 1183495535 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1183495556 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's un-Pythonic to... do what he's trying to do? < 1183495560 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's what you said. < 1183495613 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "print" statement should always print to whatever the program's running from? < 1183495635 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you sort of said that too. < 1183495699 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing that "print" goes to the terminal is more useful than being able to use "print" to go somewhere else? < 1183495710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he more or less said that stdout redirection is unpythonic. < 1183495825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never thought of python having an -ic. < 1183495828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as < 1183495850 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess languages do often have philosophy behind them. < 1183495927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is one of those languages. < 1183495965 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess lambda has been considered to be un-Pythonic. < 1183495977 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omgwtfbbq < 1183495985 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that it's very Haskellic, however. :-) < 1183496083 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And very un-Unlambdaic. < 1183496268 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1183496299 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to create a language that fixes all of Haskell's problems. < 1183496308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires finding problems with Haskell. < 1183496313 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are haskell's problems? < 1183496319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those problems is that Haskell is too unesoteric. < 1183496320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1183496342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you use it naively. < 1183496369 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is a logical impossibility to make a language more powerful by omitting features, no matter how bad they may be." < 1183496372 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1183496400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed something Haskell may be taken to disprove < 1183496428 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: load of crap. < 1183496430 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1183496430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss. :) < 1183496436 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders
< 1183496461 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to say what "power" is in a language < 1183496499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: More powerful != better. :p < 1183496504 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a good idea to hand a kid a loaded gun and tell them that if they pull the trigger, they might die, because doing that doesn't take away any of their options? < 1183496509 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all real languages have exactly the same power, you could say < 1183496532 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1183496538 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except C and such things. :-P < 1183496546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1183496565 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe C requires finite memory, though it can be arbitrarily much. < 1183496597 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think C does any such thing. < 1183496600 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every variable must have a pointer to it, and every pointer must be of the same finite size, no? < 1183496612 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it would be appropriate to say it's a logical impossibility to make a languages more expressive by omitting features < 1183496623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what do you mean "every pointer must be of the same finite size"? < 1183496643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: pointers do have a sizeof(), but does that mean there's a finite number of distinct pointers? The standard doesn't imply that. < 1183496655 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1183496659 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it does, i've never actually read it, but who knows. < 1183496662 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sizeof() can lie? < 1183496672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what do you mean lie? < 1183496679 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... < 1183496705 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sizeof(foo) = n mean there are 2^n possible distinct foos? < 1183496708 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd need to read the appropriate chapter of the standard to be sure. < 1183496730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c standard doesn't specify any size < 1183496732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: i doubt that specific conclusion is explicitly given in the standard. < 1183496741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: it's just your intuition < 1183496773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just many people's intuition, in that case < 1183496781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actuallu a c program can be written that uses infinite memory < 1183496786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually < 1183496796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: intuition is irrelevant when talking about formal systems. < 1183496803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though when it's run, limits come in form of pointer sizes < 1183496976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c does not specify a limit for pointer sizes, but there must be one at runtime, because it can be checked < 1183496990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1183496995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it tc :\ < 1183497003 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now write me a program that depends on there being finite memory. >:-) < 1183497013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be infinitely long < 1183497017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not infinite < 1183497029 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrarily long? < 1183497033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1183497035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1183497036 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think anything says sizeof(void*) must be finite < 1183497061 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't create a program that actually uses information in C, it's not Turing-complete. < 1183497063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183497065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1183497073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, what bsmntbombdood said < 1183497080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof() isn't in bytes, it's in chars. < 1183497093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1183497095 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ha, good point. < 1183497101 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah! < 1183497102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1183497107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sizeof(char)==1 < 1183497108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in *bits*, not bytes. < 1183497112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can be infinite < 1183497114 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could have a 23-gigabyte character. < 1183497118 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i still don't think sizeof matters < 1183497118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1183497128 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C can compute any function that a implemented turing machine can compute < 1183497129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C standard only specifies the minimum size. < 1183497139 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implemented, yes :-) < 1183497140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: or a bignum-sized char < 1183497150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183497153 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this discussion is stupid < 1183497154 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bignums can get pretty big. < 1183497162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, theoretically infinite < 1183497168 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so can SMETANA. < 1183497170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i think it's interesting :D < 1183497171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A char could, in fact, be of unlimited size. < 1183497179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1183497186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should read the spec < 1183497192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be that long < 1183497195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: or, to generalize, "so can a finite-state machine" < 1183497196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that'd *really* fuck with the POSIX standard, which requires that headers include the max char value. < 1183497655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: did you stop reading "a new kind of science"? < 1183497726 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i never started reading it. < 1183497779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1183497790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i confuse you with someone? < 1183497791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1183497838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think perhaps Sukoshi. < 1183497846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1183497855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to check the logzorz < 1183497870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're sure < 1183497874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183497900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall her talking about uploading it. < 1183497910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever uploaded the book for me, be highlighted, did you read it? < 1183497922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she? < 1183497933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps general < 1183497934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case < 1183497936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asd < 1183498020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also vaguely recall her talking about preferring to read the paper version. < 1183498042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway she's not here now. < 1183498141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a telepathic highlight < 1183498149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure she heard it < 1183498173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Sukoshi a she? i never get used to using that as a general case < 1183498188 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's a she < 1183498195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1183498199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"she's a he" doesn't sound very natural < 1183498219 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :female->male transgender! < 1183498285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try, "'She' is male." or "'He' is female". ;) < 1183498301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you finnish have it easy with your gender-less pronouns! < 1183498310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1183498312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1183498324 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand why languages have gender < 1183498329 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1183498337 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english, these days, using "they" is perfectly fine in most cases. < 1183498355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish has the least gender integrated in the language that i know of < 1183498356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose not when talking about a specific person with a known name. < 1183498411 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a combination of 'they' and 'he' when i don't know the gender < 1183498426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's just pronouns and noun genders, so i don't see how you could have less than finnish < 1183498432 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('he' is a gender-neutral pronoun in many cases) < 1183498468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she is supposedly gender neutral < 1183498472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people say that < 1183498480 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, english doesn't have noun gender, but does have many gender-specific words < 1183498480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess they're stoned < 1183498481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it's the oppression of the patriarchy, obviously :) < 1183498495 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: cow/bull < 1183498509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish doesn't have gender spesific words, except for a few animals, just like that < 1183498523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's the only one i can think of :D < 1183498548 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that's still in use < 1183498682 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like gender-specific stuff < 1183498712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be worse, men and women could be speaking two different languages altogether like in some african (or was it australian?) tribes < 1183498738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee, caffeine, isn't -ine a feminine suffix? < 1183498744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gotta make some -> < 1183498786 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: English doesn't have noun gender, so -ine is neither feminine nor masculine :) < 1183498788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think -ine has many meanings < 1183498811 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the original latin suffix used in that construction is feminine. < 1183498813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heroine can mean a female hero? < 1183498814 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in latin) < 1183498815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1183498835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1183498836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my only example and i'm not even sure of it :D < 1183498840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't i go :\ ---> < 1183498850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regina is latin for queen < 1183498862 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heroine and caffeine have two different suffices. < 1183498878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh Dominus is latin for Lord < 1183498933 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heroine, female hero, is a greek word. < 1183498967 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heroin? < 1183498990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: a 19th century trademark < 1183498999 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i might be wrong < 1183499008 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hero is greek, but the suffix could still be latin < 1183499013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously inspired by "hero" < 1183499059 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in russian, though, caffeine and heroine have two different suffices (the -ine in caffeine becomes masculine -in, and the -ine in heroine becomes feminine -ina) < 1183499082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the word "Latin" itself contains an -in suffix. < 1183499082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is perhaps the oddest language on the planet. . . < 1183499083 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i suspect they're not the same suffix < 1183499100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may mean just "connected to" < 1183499112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that one language i was going to learn? < 1183499114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in English do Greek, Latin, Russian, Japanese, Chinese, German, etc. plurals have any meaning at all. ;) < 1183499116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "of" < 1183499123 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: russian has a specific suffix -ina meaning "a female" < 1183499146 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i suspect it's the same one as in 'heroine' (which translates to russian directly) < 1183499170 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this suffix is also present in portuguese as -inha < 1183499174 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(queen: rainha) < 1183499189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's different from the suffix -ine used in chemicals < 1183499191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: btw are you in Russia or just descended from there? (Because your English is darn good) < 1183499195 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heroina < 1183499200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1183499214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caffeine is cafeina, not cafeinha, in portuguese. < 1183499317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have lived in canada for seven years. < 1183499353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but then, english is particularly easy to learn online :) < 1183499356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to south park you now have a very weird head. < 1183499361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my head < 1183499397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1183499426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament now has an AK47 in my head. :p < 1183499477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION unloads a full drum of bullets into pikhq's head
< 1183499526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blames Canada.
< 1183499575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes the AK47 as he dies
< 1183499591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs the AK47 all the way to heaven. :p
< 1183499622 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff, like you'd go there. :-P < 1183499662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, does God have something against Brainfuck coders? < 1183499670 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course! < 1183499677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. < 1183499689 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dante's Inferno has a secret chapter explaining the fate of BF coders. < 1183499704 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had, I should say. < 1183499706 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you unlock it? < 1183499724 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was destroyed the punishment described was just too horrible. < 1183499734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, pikhq will get to be sysadmin for dead Microsoft executives. < 1183499759 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: with the Key of Mon, of course! < 1183499768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume you unlock it by writing http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/game.tar.bz2 < 1183499774 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that. < 1183499850 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys use usenet? < 1183499856 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :net. < 1183499868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for a long time. < 1183499921 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned about it this week. ;-) < 1183499937 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better late than never, I suppose < 1183499950 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean I learned what it actually is and used it) < 1183499975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of usenet < 1183499982 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsgroups < 1183499983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notices that Tritonio is here. . .
< 1183499997 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ??? < 1183500010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: You're the guy who came in here with FBF, right? < 1183500017 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1183500025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:50:58 Tritonio: that's a lot like pikhq's bfm/pebble/pfuck < 1183500036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood was, apparently, mildly confused. . . < 1183500042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing Tritonio is a teenage male interested in programming who recently found out about Brainfuck, and then, through it, about other esoteric stuff? < 1183500046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, dogfight! ;) < 1183500065 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I remember this message... I saw peeble. < 1183500065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFUCK is a Brainfuck->C compiler, and PEBBLE is a language which compiles to Brainfuck. . . < 1183500072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the documentation is *horribly* out of date. < 1183500083 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, right.;-) < 1183500096 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no points for originality there :) < 1183500108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell. . . It predates my compiler rewrite. < 1183500125 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a teenage male interested in programming who found out about BF and then, through it, about other esoteric stuff! It wasn't recent, though. :-P < 1183500140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise. < 1183500160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just gotten stuck on Brainfuck for a fairly solid chunk of time. < 1183500178 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 4 languages that compile/convert to BF. < 1183500193 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am quite sure there's more than 4. < 1183500227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are >20 that are defined by their relationship with bf < 1183500234 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as compiling langs to brainfuck is a popular way to prove their turing-completeness < 1183500248 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, wouldn't that... not do that? < 1183500250 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found 4. < 1183500250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i suppose it's not all that popular, actually.) < 1183500257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: yeah, true :) < 1183500259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be 4 specifically designed *to* compile to Brainfuck. . . < 1183500293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that excludes some of the more interesting things out there, such as Gregor's C2BF. < 1183500296 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBF, BFBASIC, "a c-like language", and PEEBLE. < 1183500308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unary? < 1183500313 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the isomorphs < 1183500319 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook etc < 1183500321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no, that would be compiling brainfuck to those languages < 1183500364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be BFCOMP. . . < 1183500365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1183500371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament fooled me :| < 1183500395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume Tritonio is referring to high-level languages which compile to Brainfuck. < 1183500398 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo! < 1183500406 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to find a way to convert brainfuck to befunge. or some funge.... < 1183500418 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't a certain thing do that? < 1183500428 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a brainfuck interpreter in befunge < 1183500445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might have been a converter as well. It's not very hard < 1183500453 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for small programs anyway < 1183500518 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one? where can I find it? < 1183500521 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google? < 1183500537 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now somebody compile BF into Conway's Life. < 1183500557 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap... he made aturing machine in game of life.. < 1183500562 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's huge. < 1183500573 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooops < 1183500573 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge, eh? < 1183500575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that would be tricky. < 1183500577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's finite < 1183500594 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it would be. < 1183500598 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1183500618 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :died. < 1183500619 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not impossible, though. < 1183500623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you compile bf into a turing machine? < 1183500626 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183500627 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, it's not finite. < 1183500633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1183500636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said it was < 1183500636 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You have been killed by services. (collision) < 1183500638 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). < 1183500639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio, you might want to change your nickserv password. < 1183500640 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that??? < 1183500644 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it has a tape, which can be infinite if you wish. < 1183500648 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1183500649 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1183500655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the #esoteric logs. < 1183500659 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: somebody might have GHOSTed you? < 1183500661 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: game of life is obviously not turing-complete unless the field is infinite < 1183500666 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|<-- Tritonio has left freenode (Nick collision from services.) < 1183500674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the GHOST would be the most effective way to demonstrate why this is a bad idea. < 1183500685 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why what's a bad idea? < 1183500699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why having his Nickserv password in the logs is a bad idea. < 1183500704 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1183500719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but there isn't an infinite turing machine in gol where the initial condition has a finite number of black cells < 1183500719 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the logs? < 1183500725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now that i come to think of it < 1183500733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid < 1183500736 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puffers. < 1183500748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant, what i said was stupid < 1183500753 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1183500796 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you know lua? < 1183500798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you simulate an infinite gol, why not make it have that sequence of black cells (memory) extend infinitely < 1183500800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: Not at all. < 1183500829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that you should do "set password new-password-here" or else suffer from the /msg nickserv ghost Tritonio 24062406 legions again. < 1183500852 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 24062406 the password? < 1183500857 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap... < 1183500861 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1183500867 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you should change it :-P < 1183500878 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am born on 24 of june... lol < 1183500894 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you don't actually want the nick Tritonio... < 1183500912 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't know the details, if "empty" cells on the tap are encoded by empty GOL patterns, then the initial configuration will be finite < 1183500916 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok how do i change the password? < 1183500917 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on the tape :) < 1183500928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already told you.. < 1183500933 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg NickServ SET PASSWORD something < 1183500936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg nickserv set password new < 1183500945 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sorry. ;-) < 1183500975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: true, but i then realized a repetitive but infinite initial configuration is as good as finite. < 1183501007 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1183501021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that by tap you meant something like a glider gun first :P < 1183501027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, normally programs are expected to be finite to count as "algorithms" < 1183501034 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's pebbles website? < 1183501040 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find it. < 1183501056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php Note that the brief spec there needs to be updated. < 1183501065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: are infinite white cells more finite than infinite number of repetitive patterns of white and black? < 1183501070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1183501071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1183501075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess so < 1183501089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that the new, shiny stuff I talk about is going to be from svn://nonlogic.org/pikhq/pebble/trunk < 1183501099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "infinite white cells" is more like "a finite board, that you grow as needed when black stuff moves near the edges" < 1183501110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which is a perfectly finite but turing-complete situation < 1183501127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, any repetitive structure can just be created as needed. < 1183501132 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1183501147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: under this description, SMETANA is turing-complete too < 1183501157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's that? < 1183501173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: Hrm. That documentation is out of date, but it does describe a valid subset of PEBBLE. < 1183501185 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/SMETANA#Computational_class < 1183501213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll update the documentation both there and my local copy, then tar up a 1.0 release. < 1183501223 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1183501223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1183501227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you mean < 1183501261 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing that FBF is missing is macros... ;-) < 1183501268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK TURING COMPLETENESS IS MORE A MATTER OF OPINION THAN MATH. < 1183501277 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1183501289 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-68.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1183501297 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: s/THINK/FEEL < 1183501303 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i going to the living room for some pizza and southpark... bye for now! ;-) < 1183501311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an optimization pass. < 1183501311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why? < 1183501355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEEL WHETHER TURING COMPLETENESS IS A MATTER OF OPINION OR MATH IS A MATTER OF OPINION < 1183501369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better now? < 1183501371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1183501422 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a THAT would have made that a bit clearer. < 1183501475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but i don't think either of those were actual errors on my part :P < 1183501530 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1183502127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio: Released. < 1183502152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/esoteric.php < 1183502438 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har php < 1183502459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Got a problem with it? < 1183502640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have: it sucks < 1183502645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but very useful < 1183502660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1183502662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's used < 1183502670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it because it works, not because it's any good. < 1183502670 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dumb < 1183502714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language itself is just a bad version of c with automatic string conversions and millions of buggy integrated functions < 1183502734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4"+"6"=10 *shiver* < 1183502806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr {"4" + "6"} < 1183502807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 < 1183502811 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use cgi, with lisp < 1183502831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense in Tcl, though, since everything is a string. . . < 1183502843 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a string??? < 1183502883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite. . . < 1183502889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything may be handled as one, however. < 1183502981 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4" + "6"... something is not happy. < 1183502998 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what function does it have to turn "4" and "6" into "46"? < 1183503001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1183503017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew you'd ask :) < 1183503026 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenation isn't addition < 1183503026 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4" . "6"? < 1183503032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1183503043 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "foo" + "bar"? < 1183503047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1183503054 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION raises an eyebrow
< 1183503063 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1183503068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take the 10 base number that's in the beginning of the string < 1183503068 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little odd, I guess. < 1183503079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct me if i'm wrong < 1183503079 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not arbitrary... < 1183503085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know php that well < 1183503121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Tcl, "foo" + "bar" is a syntax error. < 1183503146 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, it's a weird error. :-) < 1183503159 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a syntax error?1?! < 1183503167 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it should be a runtime error < 1183503181 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a different compile-time error. < 1183503186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a compile error < 1183503187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1183503204 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile time given static typing, runtime given dynamic typing < 1183503211 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1183503218 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless your type system is really weird. < 1183503232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error in expression "foo + bar": variable references require preceding $ < 1183503252 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout("foo" + "bar") < 1183503253 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobar < 1183503264 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout("2" + "3") < 1183503273 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 < 1183503276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec sys.stdout("2" + 3) < 1183503277 0 :bsmnt_bot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects < 1183503294 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the worst thing to give for "2" + 3 is 23. < 1183503306 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary combinatory logic has _3_ symbols, not 2 < 1183503306 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does perl do? < 1183503326 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1183503333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has php style autoconversion < 1183503344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4"+"6"=10 in perl too < 1183503355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VERY correct me if i'm wrong here...) < 1183503452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YM php has perl style autoconversion. < 1183503476 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :age(perl) > age(php) < 1183503663 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183503685 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183503767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that, it's just age(oklopol_tells_about_php's_autoconversion)>age(same_for_perl) < 1183505861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book is starting to get interesting < 1183505880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first 300 pages seem to have been introduction :P < 1183506746 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183506980 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what book? < 1183507133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new kind of science < 1183507178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how many facts you store per person you don't know, but if it's >=1, store that.