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00:11:58 <lament> SimonRC: technically speaking you still need to know what gules is
00:12:28 <lament> SimonRC: for example, imagine if there were thousands of files there
00:17:25 <lament> gate 3 lock 2 is NOT the basil puzzle, is it?
00:19:02 <lament> i assumed there would be more puzzles
00:19:33 <SimonRC> what is special about the basil puzzle?
00:20:13 <SimonRC> first question, has *anyone* here managed it?
00:20:24 <lament> pikhq is apparently the only person ever.
00:20:38 <SimonRC> next question, why a bloomin TIFF?
00:23:39 <lament> i suppose i don't know.
00:25:24 <lament> well, TIFF images tend to be huge :)
00:31:01 <SimonRC> have you read the wikipedia article on them?
00:31:28 <lament> i'm nowhere near solving the puzzle, i'm afraid.
00:31:43 <lament> but as an amateur photographer, i can tell you tiff images tend to be huge :)
00:32:29 <SimonRC> there is so *much* stuff that you can do with the TIFF format
00:32:37 <SimonRC> but maybe that isn;t significant at all...
00:42:04 <SimonRC> well, the image is compressed, internally, so I doubt there is any steganography
00:42:07 <SimonRC> well, the image is compressed, internally, so I doubt there is any steganography
00:42:33 <lament> no discussion in here please
00:44:42 <lament> (for what it's worth, JPEG watermarking is very common despite JPEG being compressed)
00:45:14 <lament> (again, speaking as an amateur photographer rather than some kind of programmer)
00:46:57 <lament> you just watermark after compression, not before
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00:58:45 <pikhq> Anyone else Basiling?
00:59:08 <SimonRC> pikhq: come to mock us? ;-)
00:59:21 <pikhq> Not really. It actually is maniacal.
00:59:38 <SimonRC> so it is not so simple that I will I feel like an idiot for not trying some certan thing?
00:59:54 <pikhq> No, once you're done, that's *exactly* how you'll feel. :p
01:02:48 <SimonRC> how long did you spend having no clue, comparedt to the amount of time spent working in the right direction?
01:08:48 <SimonRC> or would that be too much of a clue?
01:09:55 <pikhq> SimonRC: I spent all of it clueless until I discovered the answer.
01:10:37 <pikhq> No, because you still have to find it.
01:11:07 <SimonRC> it it tells me not to look at some things
01:16:18 * SimonRC wonders if the nearly-identical image is of any significance at all
01:18:54 <SimonRC> Problem is, I can't think of much to do with it other than treat it as an image
01:19:28 <SimonRC> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/images/herbs_basil300.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/&h=300&w=300&sz=16&hl=en&start=520&um=1&tbnid=DsOXfgK_b1L3UM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBasil%26start%3D520%26imgsz%3Dsmall%257Cmedium%257Clarge%257Cxlarge%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
01:29:45 <lament> i'm beginning to strongly suspect Basil is kinda lame
01:29:54 <lament> but of course i won't know for sure until i find the answer.
01:30:00 <SimonRC> you haven;t found the answer
01:30:14 <SimonRC> pikhq: Actaully, that is the sign of a very difficult puzzle. You spend far more time having no clue than you do having clue.
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01:39:56 <SimonRC> is it *aupposed* to be a broken image, BTW?
01:40:07 <SimonRC> It doesn;t want to display inline
01:40:27 <RodgerTheGreat> that's because your browser doesn't properly support TIFF
01:43:08 <lament> is that either you need to have/make some kind of tiff-fucking tool, which is lame
01:44:08 <lament> or you don't, but then that's an obvious false route and you still end up doing it, which is still lame :)
01:44:22 <SimonRC> RodgerTheGreat: so, is the puzzle lame?
01:44:47 <RodgerTheGreat> as I've said before, it's one of my crowning achievements
01:44:59 <lament> suppose i have no knowledge of the tiff format and no tiff processing libraries
01:45:15 <lament> which is surprisingly not far from the truth
01:45:27 <pikhq> That's where I started.
01:46:06 <lament> now, if i have to learn the tiff format to proceed, then i give up in advance :)
01:46:34 <pikhq> You might, or you might not.
01:46:47 <pikhq> You can try, or you can try other means.
01:47:06 <SimonRC> lament: I assume you tried the thing that worked with several of the previous ones, and got the (AFAICT) disappointing result
01:47:44 <SimonRC> incedentally, the answer isn't "Fawlty"
01:49:36 <lament> well, if the answer has anything to do with the ****** ***** ** *** ****, i'm not interested in continuing :)
01:49:56 <SimonRC> those asterisks are not helping me
01:50:08 <SimonRC> those asterisks are not helping me to understand your setance
01:51:49 <lament> oh come on, only so many sentences fit that pattern :)
01:52:28 <RodgerTheGreat> just pull a Babbage and gather a collection of dictionaries containing various word lengths
01:53:46 <SimonRC> why is it called "gate 3?"
01:53:59 <pikhq> Because that's what Rodger likes calling it.
01:55:28 <SimonRC> adding ?M=69 to the end din;t work :-)
02:02:06 <SimonRC> Are you allowed to tell us if it has anything to do with the previous puzzles?
02:02:16 <SimonRC> I.e. do you need to have solved them first?
02:04:22 * pikhq watches brains a'splode
02:04:59 <RodgerTheGreat> this is such an awesome movie. Very thought provoking.
02:05:52 <ihope> Potter Harry of Dth Hlws?
02:05:59 <ihope> Probably doesn't stand for anything like that.
02:06:07 <SimonRC> ihope: looked at the puzzles?
02:06:09 <ihope> ****** ***** ** *** ****
02:06:27 <ihope> SimonRC: what puzzles?
02:07:03 <SimonRC> http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php
02:07:10 <SimonRC> only pikhq has got past the basil one
02:07:33 <RodgerTheGreat> the challenges may be referred to collectively as "Rodger's Demon"
02:07:42 <ihope> SimonRC: that link leads me to a 403.
02:08:42 <SimonRC> the last one AFAICT is an exercise is explorin a completely-flat problem space
02:15:55 <SimonRC> from what pikhq said, there is no clue until you kit on the answer
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04:53:20 <pikhq> Rodger's Demon == evily good.
04:59:59 <RodgerTheGreat> just wait for the Abyss. It will be unlike any game you've played before, I promise.
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10:58:14 <SimonRC> have you been irritated by Rodger's puzzles yet?
11:02:13 -!- ehird` has joined.
11:10:12 <ehird`> if so - i've just woken up
11:10:38 <ehird`> have you got any leads?
12:57:55 <jix> SimonRC: huh?
13:06:05 <jix> the next line
13:06:17 <ehird`> jix, he was talking to me about Basil i think
13:06:31 <jix> ehird`: no you weren't here
13:06:37 <jix> 11:56:57 <SimonRC> have you been irritated by Rodger's puzzles yet?
13:07:24 <SimonRC> http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php
13:07:35 <SimonRC> don't bother with them, the last one will wreck your life
13:07:42 <SimonRC> I am ignoring it currently
13:07:56 <jix> i get a forbidden
13:09:02 <jix> ehird`: you joined just after simonrc said have you irritated by.....
13:09:39 <ehird`> jix, anyway, the forbidden is the first puzzle
13:10:02 <jix> ah this is notpron like?
13:12:40 <ehird`> but less levels, and more binary data scavenging
13:12:46 <jix> great binarys!
13:12:59 <jix> like i probably need some different OS to run that
13:13:05 <SimonRC> please discuss this somewhere else.
13:17:56 <SimonRC> because I am getting nowhere on the last question
13:21:55 <SimonRC> My previous stratergy has always been to lose the URL to the puzzles and forget about them
14:22:42 <jix> i've got it!
14:50:43 <jix> pikhq: the last one
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15:00:32 <ehird`> he has nicely dispatched one hint, which has saved me from giving up
15:05:20 <pikhq> jix, don't give out too many hints.
15:05:46 <pikhq> IMO, it's much more worth it to let them solve it themselve.
15:05:59 <pikhq> . . . Wait. You spent *two hours* on all of Rodger's Demon?
15:07:05 <jix> for the first ones (the ones before the animations) ehird was throwing hints on me it would have taken longer without them
15:07:27 <pikhq> Still. . . Even with hints, the gulesfish is hard.
15:07:58 <ehird`> i found gulesfish pretty easy once i got "gules"
15:08:45 <pikhq> I had most of the puzzle solved before I realised where the input needed to go.
15:09:05 <ehird`> pikhq, he's only given out one hint
15:39:17 <SimonRC> I would never have gotten the one that has just a 2-character hint without Rodger helping me
15:39:49 <SimonRC> My puzzle-solving usually starts with a crappy solution then re-works the hell out of it
15:40:19 <SimonRC> because my problem-solving is programming
15:40:45 <pikhq> I'm usually fairly good at these sorts of puzzles.
15:43:27 <SimonRC> I keep dismissing the right answer
15:44:18 <SimonRC> e.g., In Gulesfish my unzipper was waving a massive hint in my face and I ignored it!
15:44:33 <pikhq> Mine ignored said massive hint.
15:44:54 <pikhq> Which actually wasn't the last bit of the puzzle I got. . .
15:45:05 <SimonRC> OTOH, my other unzipper often says that same thing when it is not relevent
15:45:06 <pikhq> I had the much-needed input, but not where it was supposed to go. XD
15:45:43 <SimonRC> I forgot that [] at the beginning of a BF program is not an ininite loop
15:47:21 <SimonRC> so, I looked, saw that the first two BF commands would be [ and ], then decided it is not a BF program
15:50:59 <ehird`> i had to tell him that it wasn't
15:51:07 <ehird`> he kept trying to use the elf instead, heh
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17:26:04 <asiekierka> It's a exact-1-year-anniversary of my first coming here!
17:26:08 <asiekierka> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.01
17:26:57 <asiekierka> I want to do a "esoteric programming language" programmable using IMAGES :D
17:28:30 <asiekierka> Oh wait. I will make an IRC esoteric language, with IRC-like syntax
17:28:59 <pikhq> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Braincopter
17:29:07 <pikhq> Internet Relay Programming
17:29:32 <asiekierka> I will also do a Brainf**k interperting bot... i guess it was done though...
17:29:53 <pikhq> This channel actually has two in it usually.
17:30:27 <ehird`> Please, print "IRP is stupid."
17:30:29 <asiekierka> pikhq, do you want to do something with me?
17:30:52 <asiekierka> and did you do any esoteric languages?
17:30:56 <ehird`> Please, print "Mwahaha" while true is true.
17:31:14 <pikhq> I've done Dimensifuck, PicoCPU, and PEBBLE.
17:31:18 <asiekierka> Please, print "I suck" while false is false.
17:31:41 <pikhq> INTERPRETER ERROR: Halting problem solved, don't want to do a program that doesn't halt.
17:32:26 <asiekierka> it's goal is to make as much fun from a PS3 while being an esoteric language
17:32:32 <pikhq> source ^stdcons.bfm;@ temp1;@ temp2;stringout "Hello, world!\n" : temp1 temp2
17:33:19 <pikhq> >-[<->+++++++]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>----[<+++>----]<.------------.>--[<->---]<+.--------.+++.------.--------.>----[<+++>----]<.>------[<---->+]<+. is the result of that PEBBLE code.
17:34:00 <asiekierka> Please, if true is true print "I love #esoteric." else die
17:34:28 <asiekierka> link to PicoCPU, Dimensif**k and PEBBLE specs
17:34:29 <pikhq> Interpreter does not wish to do an infinite program.
17:34:55 <pikhq> Dunno where PicoCPU is hidden; http://esolangs.org/wiki/Dimensifuck, and http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php
17:35:08 <asiekierka> Please, if asiekiekra is on print "I love ehird`"
17:35:29 <asiekierka> Please, if asiekierka OR Haikz is on print "I love ehird`"
17:35:40 <ehird`> ERROR: NO, IRP ALLOWED IN TOPIC ERROR
17:35:44 <pikhq> Ne, mi malsxatas gxin.
17:36:12 <ehird`> ERROR: KILLING RAMPAGE STARTED, KILLING ALL IRP USERS
17:36:24 <ehird`> Please, everyone private message asiekierka with "WHEEEEEE"
17:36:31 <ehird`> INTERPRETER WRITTEN PROGRAM TRANSMISSION FINISHED.
17:36:34 <Haikz> I have a magical constant
17:36:44 <asiekierka> WARNING: PERSON YOU LOVE IS ABOUT TO DIE. [OK] [CANCEL] [WHO CARES]
17:36:51 <pikhq> Please execute "0+^+v".
17:36:58 <asiekierka> Please, send the warning to "everyone"
17:38:08 <ehird`> Please, let x be "Please, let x be %c%s%c and evaluate (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37)" and evaluate (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37)
17:38:24 <ehird`> hmmmm... better IRP quineL
17:38:28 <ehird`> Please, let x be "Please, let x be %c%s%c and evaluate (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37)" and say (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37)
17:38:42 <asiekierka> Please, let x be "Please, read source file "Please, let source file be #esoteric""
17:39:06 <ehird`> Please, say this exact line.
17:39:12 <asiekierka> Please, send command "Please, let x be "Please, read source file "Please, let source file be #esoteric""" to "Please, list anybody on #esoteric"
17:39:13 <pikhq> Please, all IRP interpreters, shut down.
17:39:29 <ehird`> asiekierka, everybody is an interpreter
17:39:35 <asiekierka> i'm a sentient AI + an interperter, ie. a human
17:40:29 <asiekierka> Please, say "No." everytime somebody confirms something.
17:41:11 <asiekierka> Please, give me a link to "Please, give me a link to "Please, give me a link to name "Please, "What is IRP?""""
17:42:35 <asiekierka> ERROR: No "please" at start of line "bacon"
17:43:19 <ehird`> bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon ba
17:43:20 <ehird`> con bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon baco
17:43:20 <ehird`> n bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon
17:43:25 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl
17:43:25 <ehird`> that was a bit too long
17:43:28 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl
17:43:31 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl
17:43:31 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl
17:43:31 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl
17:43:45 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERRO
17:43:48 <asiekierka> ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl.
17:43:53 <Haikz> I don't like bacon.
17:43:56 <ehird`> ERROR: bacon was in response to Please, bacon. and had no please so interpreting as command is ERROR, asiekierka interpreter is BUGGY
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17:45:36 <asiekierka> except you replace "Please," with "Shut up and"
17:46:43 <asiekierka> WARNING: IRP#ascorp is not compatible with IRP#esoteric. To use IRP#ascorp join #ascorp.
17:47:29 <asiekierka> Please rm -rf anybody that tries to rm -rf me.
17:48:30 <asiekierka> Please also press enter when you type /clear
17:48:37 <asiekierka> Please then type /part and press enter.
17:49:36 <asiekierka> ERROR: UPDATE FOUND. UPDATE DOSENT ALLOW TO TYPE /PART. SORRY FOR ANY PROBLEMS.
17:49:45 -!- asiekierka has left (?).
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17:51:42 <asiekierka> Please join #ascorp and do not type quotation marks for 5 minutes.
17:52:14 <asiekierka> Please invent a time machine.just kidding lol
17:53:09 <asiekierka> I don't remember anything except i turned on IRP01.exe some minutes ago...
17:56:35 <asiekierka> No, irp allowed. So IRP IS allowed :DDD
17:57:33 <pikhq> Sed IRP en Angla lingvo malbonas.
17:57:57 <pikhq> But IRP in English is bad.
17:57:59 <asiekierka> Please wait for a fix of the latest command.
17:58:06 <asiekierka> Please translate "Sed IRP en Angla lingvo malbonas", pikhq.
17:58:28 <asiekierka> Please remember that I only know Polish and English,
17:58:31 <pikhq> Ne. Mi sxatas lan internacian lingvon!
17:58:50 <asiekierka> and please translate the stuff or i'll seriously quit!
17:59:16 <pikhq> No. I like the international language.
18:01:58 -!- ihope has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com -- NO: IRP ALLOWED.
18:02:18 <asiekierka> IRP is still allowed! cool! / Dalej mozna uzywac IRP! Super!
18:02:49 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | IRP MEANS YOUR FIERY DEATH.
18:03:14 <pikhq> asiekierka: Ne. Esperanto bonas.
18:03:17 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | NO IRP RULE WAS JUST BALEETED!.
18:03:35 -!- ihope has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. IRP.
18:03:54 <pikhq> Also, baleeting is a Homestar-ism, not actual deletion.
18:03:58 <ihope> Perhaps I should have said "IRP BEING ALLOWED".
18:04:27 <ihope> Then again, the topic currently contains no verbs.
18:04:28 <asiekierka> Please remember you said "1. IRP.", not "1. NO IRP", so it seems we MUST use IRP.
18:04:45 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | STOP THE GODDAMN IRP.
18:04:57 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. shut up. 2. talk only in IRP..
18:05:19 <ihope> RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time.
18:05:45 <asiekierka> Okay. I will break rule #1 if you please so much.
18:05:54 <ehird`> asiekierka, but then you break the break at least one rule rule
18:06:01 <ehird`> since by breaking it you break it by breaking it
18:06:14 <ihope> You can't be following the rules, because that'd be breaking rule 1, so you must break a rule, so you must follow rule 1, so you must break rule 2.
18:06:28 <ihope> No, you just follow rule 1 but not rule 2.
18:07:00 <asiekierka> RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up.
18:07:28 <asiekierka> But i can't select #3 because if i select it, i don't shut up so i must shut up.
18:07:47 <ihope> I never said you had to follow all the rules.
18:08:15 <asiekierka> RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2.
18:08:24 <asiekierka> If i break rule #2, I break rule #4... it is allowed.
18:08:42 <ihope> Sure, you can break both 2 and 4.
18:08:53 <ihope> You can break all of them except 1, if you want to.
18:09:03 <ihope> But you must follow 1.
18:09:15 <asiekierka> RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 5. You must follow rule #1 and any other rule.
18:09:25 <asiekierka> RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 5. You must follow rule #1, this and any other rule.
18:09:30 <ihope> "Any other rule" meaning "some other rule"?
18:09:56 <ihope> One of the remaining rules...
18:10:15 <ihope> ehird`: what are we supposed to be stopping now?
18:11:41 <asiekierka> Please follow the new RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 5. You must follow rule #1, this and any other rule. 6. Don't break rule #3. 7. Always use IRP.
18:13:39 <ehird`> i am going to break rule 4
18:13:54 <ehird`> and 2 (if it isn't to be used some time, it isn't used all time)
18:14:53 <asiekierka> And you can have only #1, #5, and any other left.
18:15:16 <asiekierka> If you break #7, you have #6 and #3 left.
18:16:25 <asiekierka> #2 and #4 are broke. But #7 isn't. You pleased for an exception in your words so you have it.
18:18:11 <ehird`> breaking rule 2 voids #7
18:18:24 <ehird`> and the other rules don't forbid breaking 2
18:18:40 <ehird`> i can break one or more rule
18:18:44 <ehird`> i break 4, allowing me to break 2
18:18:59 <ehird`> i am following 1, 5 and 6
18:19:14 <ehird`> so, by voiding 4 and 2 i do not have to involve myself in any irp
18:19:38 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. Follow rule #2. 2. Follow rule #3 and #5. 3. Break #4. 4. Don't use IRP. 5. Use IRP..
18:22:41 <asiekierka> Ok, please tell me how to break rule #5. If there is a way... i doubt there is one.
18:24:00 <asiekierka> Please say "Your rules rock. We must use IRP. Remember this."
18:25:40 <asiekierka> Well, i said "Use IRP." But i didn't say "Always." So we can use it when we want. But we must use IRP. Not always though.
18:28:12 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. Follow rule #2. 2. Follow rule #3 and #5. 3. Break #4 and follow #6. 4. Don't use IRP. 5. Use IRP. 6. Always follow #5. Always. Not just sometimes..
18:30:10 <asiekierka> Please use IRP, then i'll stop as you please.
18:31:25 <asiekierka> O.K.. Aber Sie sagten es nicht in deutschem :D. Sagen Sie es bitte auf Deutsch.
18:34:07 <asiekierka> So? Sprechen Sie bitte auf Deutsch und geben Sie mir deutsche IRP Befehle.
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18:49:28 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
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19:13:20 * pikhq has a demented idea for Rodger's Demon
19:14:32 <pikhq> I'm not telling, it might be used. :p
19:15:13 <pikhq> Hmm. Maybe I should experiment with doing my own puzzle.
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19:26:30 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. No rules..
19:27:06 <asiekierka> I am waiting for AI to be better so i can make a IRP interperter...
19:28:10 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. No rules. 2. You must break at least one rule..
19:29:53 <lament> Since there's no rules, rule 2 doesn't count.
19:30:14 <asiekierka> But if you break #1, rule #1 dosen't count, but rule 2 also breaks
19:31:44 <ihope> Does "no rules" mean "rules are prohibited"?
19:31:59 <lament> ihope: i would assume it means "rules can be disregarded"
19:32:08 <GregorR> If you break rule #1, you are fulfilling rule #2, and therefore following the rules. It's trivial, but it's not a paradox.
19:32:47 <ihope> 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Break this rule.
19:33:04 <lament> GregorR: if you fulfill rule #1, then you disregard both rules and there's still no paradox.
19:33:15 <ihope> 1. Break this rule.
19:33:18 <GregorR> lament: True. So really, there's no paradox at all :P
19:34:06 <GregorR> Prove the following statement: This statement is true.
19:34:30 <ehird`> GregorR, that statement states it is true, and there is nothing else it specifies, therefore it is true.
19:34:42 <ehird`> really, it's just like saying nothing
19:34:44 <pikhq> First, we assume that statement is provable.
19:34:53 <ihope> GregorR is the worst mathematician in here.
19:35:09 <ihope> Proof: he can't prove "GregorR cannot prove this sentence true." Everybody else can.
19:35:18 <pikhq> If it is true, then it must be true.
19:35:28 <ehird`> ihope, no, you're the worst - you can't prove "ihope cannot prove this sentence true."
19:35:33 <GregorR> pikhq: But if it is false, then it must be false.
19:35:49 <GregorR> pikhq: So using that method doesn't work :)
19:35:54 <pikhq> GregorR: There is no indication that it is false.
19:35:55 <lament> I can't prove it true.
19:36:08 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. Don't follow this rule. 2. Don't follow this rule. 3. Follow all rules..
19:36:10 <lament> pikhq: there's no indication that it's true, either.
19:36:20 <ihope> "'This sentence is true.' is false." is consistent.
19:36:22 <pikhq> We cannot prove it false. However, if we start from the assumption that "this statement is true", then it is true.
19:36:32 <ihope> Is true. Is false. Is consistent.
19:36:49 <GregorR> pikhq: You can't start from the assumption that it's true without also starting from the assumption that it's false for comparison.
19:36:52 <ihope> asiekierka: paradox.
19:37:01 <ihope> Neither true nor false!
19:37:04 <ehird`> GregorR, the empty statement is true, as it tells nothing that is wrong
19:37:23 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. Don't follow this rule. 2. Don't follow this rule. 3. Follow all rules. 4. Ignore all rules before this one. 5. Ignore rule #4. 6. Ignore rule #7. 7. Ignore rule #6 and #5..
19:37:27 <ehird`> "This sentence is true." is a redundant empty statement - the empty statement is true, and this has nothing but the assertation that it is true, therefore since it asserts nothing that can be false, it is true.
19:37:51 <asiekierka> Paradox, Double Paradox or TRIPLE paradox?
19:38:10 <GregorR> ehird`: Yes, we can see that it's trivially true. We can also see that it's trivially false.
19:38:18 <pikhq> GregorR: If we start from the assumption that it is false, then we have an unfounded assumption.
19:38:28 <ehird`> GregorR, tell me how it is false
19:38:29 <ihope> X => X. True or false: X is true.
19:38:44 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. Follow rule #2. 2. Break rule #1..
19:38:48 <GregorR> ehird`: Assume that the statement is false. The statement states that it is true, which is false. QED.
19:38:50 <ihope> Dudes and dudettes, it cannot be proven either way.
19:39:00 <ihope> asiekierka: inconsistent.
19:39:17 <asiekierka> inconsistent? I'm not so good at english. I'm 10 1/2 and from poland.
19:39:18 <lament> ihope: so who's the worst mathematician now?
19:39:26 <ehird`> GregorR, Now, back up that assumption. I can back up assuming it is true - the empty statement "" is true, and it is an extension of the empty statement which comments on itself
19:39:27 <pikhq> asiekierka: That much shows.
19:39:56 <ihope> asiekierka: mathematical term. A theory is inconsistent if it implies a falsehood.
19:39:58 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq..
19:40:09 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq..
19:40:13 <ihope> (Which, in turn, means that it implies everything.)
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19:40:27 <pikhq> Break rule 6: Follow 2 through 5 inclusive.
19:40:29 <GregorR> ehird`: You don't back up assumptions used doing proofs. You work under each assumption and see if it leads to a sound solution.
19:40:51 <pikhq> Rule 6 is one rule.
19:40:56 <GregorR> ehird`: If the solution is sound, the assumption is proved.
19:41:00 <pikhq> It just states that one follows 2 through 5.
19:41:02 <ihope> Yeah, the rule that says rules must be followed...
19:41:44 <pikhq> asiekierka: Prove 1+1=2.
19:41:57 <pikhq> (trivial proof, BTW)
19:42:01 <GregorR> 2 is defined as 1 more than 1. QED
19:42:10 <asiekierka> I cannot. 1 idiot + 1 idiot = double idiot.
19:42:16 <ehird`> pikhq, S(1) = 2, x+1 = S(x)
19:43:45 <pikhq> We assume that e*e=e^2, that ln(x*y) = ln(x)+ln(y).
19:44:12 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. You can break this one only. 7. You cannot add new rules in..
19:44:55 <ihope> I think that's your only option.
19:45:10 <pikhq> Therefore, one may break any number of rules.
19:46:07 <pikhq> asiekierka: However, you can break any rule but #6.
19:46:14 <ehird`> this completely incorrect logic is intriguing to me.
19:46:26 <pikhq> Thus estabilishing a paradox in your rule set.
19:46:45 <pikhq> I say that you can break #6, so now you can't break #6.
19:46:58 <pikhq> Since it's a paradox, your ruleset is impossible to fully obey.
19:47:00 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in..
19:47:42 <asiekierka> 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only.
19:47:54 <ihope> Er, if you break 6, all that means is that you may be able to break rules other than 6.
19:47:56 <pikhq> Pikhq opts to not break any rule, thereby breaking #1.
19:48:11 <ihope> If you break any other, you're breaking rule 6..
19:48:25 <ihope> Thereby breaking two rules, which is against rule #1.
19:48:46 <ehird`> why is this stupid conversation in existance?
19:49:03 <ehird`> breaking the DUMMY RULE
19:49:14 <pikhq> I select no rules.
19:49:15 <ehird`> so he does not need to create a paradox
19:49:33 <asiekierka> So, if you ignore 6, you have 2-5 and 7 left
19:49:37 <pikhq> Rule #1 is broken, ergo I can choose to break rule #7. :p
19:49:47 <asiekierka> ikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only.
19:50:13 <pikhq> Since I must select one, by not selecting one, the ruleset is broken.
19:50:40 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in. 8. If you break r.
19:51:02 <pikhq> Rule #1. You must be at least this smart to be in the channel.
19:51:15 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE..
19:51:39 <pikhq> asiekierka: What does ,[.,] do?
19:52:23 <pikhq> That's exactly how smart you must be to be in this channel.
19:52:50 <pikhq> Now, tell me how this works: http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck.tar.bz2
19:53:24 <pikhq> It's even high-level, for your sanity!
19:53:56 <pikhq> Oh. http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck-1.1.tar.bz2
19:53:59 <pikhq> Forgot the version.
19:54:39 <ehird`> i think, the intelligence level required for this channel
19:54:41 <ehird`> is getting on to gulesfish.
19:54:52 <ehird`> asiekierka, http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php get to gulesfish.
19:55:29 <lament> that's hard for somebody who "didn't use brainfuck any time"
19:55:39 <ehird`> before gulesfish there is no BF-related puzzles
19:55:41 <ehird`> asiekierka, A puzzle site.
19:55:55 <ehird`> asiekierka, fuck fuck fuck
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19:58:07 <pikhq> It accepts input, ignores that, then, while not EOF, takes input, outputs it, and ignores the next input.
19:58:26 <pikhq> Or, higher-level, it outputs every other character of input.
19:58:34 <asiekierka> For all those non-brainers: oh, you said it
19:59:44 <pikhq> ,[>>>>+<<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]--[>-<++++++]>[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]--[>-<++++++]>--[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]----[>-<----]>+++[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]----[>-<----]>+[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]>[<<<<.>>>>[-]]<<<<[-],]
19:59:51 <pikhq> Can you tell me what that does?
20:00:05 <ehird`> asiekierka, it is not 403'd
20:00:07 <ehird`> it just looks like it.
20:00:17 <ehird`> pikhq, even i couldn't tell you what that did.
20:01:11 <pikhq> It accepts input in my BFcompress format (+,-,>, and < are RLE'd) and outputs Brainfuck.
20:01:35 <ehird`> asiekierka, GulesFish yet? :P
20:01:41 <pikhq> One of my earlier Brainfuck hacks (later ported to PEBBLE).
20:01:53 <pikhq> (the version there is the one written via PEBBLE)
20:02:10 <asiekierka> with a 2MB flash memory and USB support
20:02:29 <pikhq> 2MB is overkill, as is USB.
20:02:51 <pikhq> You only need 30,000 chars.
20:03:16 <ehird`> 30,000 is not enough for lots of programs
20:03:26 <pikhq> Hell, you could probably get away with using the processor's cache. . .
20:03:31 <ehird`> i think 100,000 unsigned 1-byte cells is good
20:03:46 <ehird`> about the screen though - will you memmap it?
20:03:48 <pikhq> ehird`: Even LostKingdom runs in 30,000 chars.
20:03:57 <ehird`> or just regular output?
20:04:00 <ehird`> because regular output would suck
20:04:14 <asiekierka> it'll just have a implementation of brainf**k
20:04:17 <ehird`> e.g. i think that , should return "raw" character codes
20:04:34 <ehird`> i think: cell 0, or something, is screen position
20:04:39 <ehird`> . prints character at cell to that position
20:04:47 <ehird`> , gets one raw character code instead of the next character on the line
20:05:28 <pikhq> asiekierka: You get to GulesFish?
20:05:49 <ehird`> or you are EXILED IN FIERY DEATH
20:07:16 <ehird`> hint: that page has been tampered with
20:10:01 <ehird`> brainfuck crasher: +[]
20:10:08 -!- blahbot` has joined.
20:10:12 <ehird`> And sure. Let's see if it crashes.
20:10:25 <ehird`> %bf ,[+.,--]!hello world
20:11:44 <ehird`> it won't eat all memory
20:11:47 <ehird`> it doesn't use > at all
20:11:56 <ehird`> it just adds, outputs, inputs, and subtracts two
20:12:08 <ehird`> incidentally, equal to ,[-.,]
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20:14:39 <pikhq> Damn it, he's coming back.
20:16:14 <ehird`> tomorrow... he is forced to get to gulesfish!
20:16:23 <ehird`> ... maybe forced to beat basil. but that would just be cruel
20:16:41 <ehird`> ... though ... being cruel to someone who uses age as an excuse for anything may be justified ... :P
20:17:46 <pikhq> I use age as an excuse for being an age.
20:19:48 <ehird`> i think i might make a BF pda, but with better cellsize and my screen IO system :P
20:20:01 <ehird`> though i guess maybe it isn't the best
20:20:17 <ehird`> (. = output current cell at position in [0]
20:20:33 <ehird`> , = input one keypress (NOTE: keypress, not character) store in current cell)
20:21:02 <ehird`> still, allows for graphics and stuff
20:21:14 <ehird`> maybe instead a pixel based system
20:21:29 <ehird`> . = flip pixel at position in cell
20:21:45 <ehird`> but.. tedious to use i guess
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20:25:33 <ehird`> with that definition of ., and a 320x240 screen, prizes to whoever gives the shortest code to draw a hollow circle
20:26:03 <ehird`> assuming, of course, that cell size goes up to at least 76800
20:28:03 <ehird`> assuming starting top-left pixel is in the current cell
20:34:23 <ehird`> oh come on, someone? :)
20:35:27 <Sukoshi> Is there a type of Channel in Java's nio that supports pushing back? (Something like PushbackInputStream ?)
20:42:43 <ehird`> should this PDA/machine/thing have any persistant memory?
20:42:48 <ehird`> i.e. a way to save programs
20:42:55 <ehird`> and maybe their output
20:51:34 <pikhq> No, turingcomplete.
20:52:15 <turingcomplete> i forgot my nick from the last time, and that was the first time I was here
20:52:42 <turingcomplete> and turingcomplete was first thing that came into my mind after MrDurp
21:00:07 <ehird`> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine proposed BF machine spec
21:07:30 <ehird`> i do wonder how hard that circle program will be though
21:10:31 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.electronixandmore.com/project/relaycomputertwo/
21:33:51 <ihope> There are multiple things that could be deemed "hollow circles".
21:34:19 <ihope> Here, have one: {(0,1), (0,-1), (1,0), (-1,0)}
21:37:33 <ehird`> well like that but bigger ;)
21:37:39 <ehird`> say 50x50 or something
21:37:46 <ehird`> say 50x50 or something
21:38:39 <ehird`> it's just a tiny competition
21:38:49 <ehird`> because i'd like to see some code to demonstate the feasability of its screen mechanism
21:45:03 <ihope> I think it's feasible, as long as you can indeed toggle each bit in an arbitrary way.
21:45:10 <ihope> (It's not feasable unless it can be feased. :-)
21:45:56 <ehird`> what do you mean toggle each bit in an "arbitary" way?
21:46:05 <jix> ehird`: solved the puzzle?
21:46:09 <ehird`> you can get the current 0/1 status of a bit, and flip a bit from 0->1 and 1->0
21:46:15 <ehird`> jix, not yet. i'm going to try later
21:48:40 <ihope> ehird`: can the code always take a number and toggle the corresponding bit?
21:48:54 <ihope> And can it avoid doing so?
21:49:04 <ehird`> ihope, i don't understand
21:49:08 <ehird`> it can always toggle a bit, yes
21:49:17 <ehird`> @ flips the bit whose position is in the current cell
21:49:38 <ehird`> if you wanted to permanently turn off a bit, there's:
21:49:57 <ehird`> you'd have to duplicate the value, then go over to it
21:50:14 <ihope> Yeah, so drawing a circle can definitely be done.
21:50:22 <ehird`> yes, but can it be done relatively concisely?
21:50:35 <ehird`> algorithmically, that is?
21:50:41 <ihope> I don't see why not.
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21:50:56 <ehird`> show your code then :) the spec is here: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine
21:51:02 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat, jix finished the whole of your puzzles...
21:51:10 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat, he did Basil in a matter of minutes o.O
21:51:28 <ehird`> he didn't get GulesFish though, he didn't know what a red herring was
21:51:38 <ehird`> but once he got that, he finished it in barely any time
21:51:42 <ihope> That was a red herring?
21:52:15 <ihope> Eh, I stopped trying once I didn't see an obvious way to get past GulesFish.
21:52:35 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: yeah... i found basil quite clever
21:52:58 <lament> gulesfish is unfair at least at one step
21:53:14 <ihope> So just how is number translated into point?
21:53:40 <ihope> In the BF machine, that is.
21:54:03 <ehird`> ihope, you know graphics memory?
21:54:16 <ehird`> it's just linear, 80*24 cells
21:54:30 <ihope> 320 wide, 240 tall.
21:54:30 <ehird`> it just displays the first 80, then the next 80, etc
21:54:45 <ehird`> except, its a pointer in this case
21:54:50 <ihope> So (x,y) is x + 240*y?
21:55:20 <ihope> Wrapping would be nice.
21:55:35 <ehird`> ihope, i guess. but if the max value isn't defined..
21:55:56 <ehird`> you could do [-] and end up with 34857459234234 or 76824
21:56:06 <ihope> 999999 * 999999 = 1 (mod 1000000), no?
21:56:18 <ihope> Er, [-] and end up with something other than zero?
21:56:45 <ehird`> maybe i should fix the maximum at 76800
21:57:14 <ihope> As long as the minimum is 0, which is an extremely sensible thing to do. :-)
21:57:31 <ihope> And then it wraps?
21:58:38 <ehird`> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine spec updated
21:58:55 <ehird`> if you can give me code to draw, algorithmically, a 50x50 circle with that spec, you get entered into the competition
22:00:38 <RodgerTheGreat> perhaps I should brush off my BF Sine function and get it working properly
22:00:54 <ihope> Sine function. That's a way I hadn't thought of.
22:01:22 <ehird`> until a circle is relatively simple to do, i'll keep refining the spec :) this competition will help
22:01:36 <ihope> Still, you should define a circle.
22:01:49 <ehird`> you've seen a circle before.
22:01:57 <ehird`> there's not that many circles you can make in 50x50...
22:02:16 <RodgerTheGreat> you could also do things with c^2 = sqrt(a^2 + b^2), but it'd be tricky to draw a hollow circle that way
22:02:16 <ihope> Yes, but I can't turn on an uncountably infinite number of points.
22:02:38 <jix> one doesn't use sine to draw circles!
22:02:42 <ehird`> basic benchmark: look something not unlike what paint produces when you drag the circle tool from topleft to bottomright on a 50x50 image
22:04:06 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: reminds me a bit of this: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060
22:04:55 <RodgerTheGreat> jix: sine and cosine. You can shift sine's output a little and have cosine for free
22:05:06 <RodgerTheGreat> generate lookup tables and it isn't even horrifically slow
22:05:21 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: it just maps the BF tape *directly* to VGA memory
22:05:23 <ihope> Is it okay if I draw a discrete circle? :-P
22:05:35 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: you can done circle drawing with just multiplication and addition/bitshift i think
22:05:42 <RodgerTheGreat> ihope: that'd be trivial, but it seems like it'd be allowed
22:05:46 <ihope> That is, a Galois circle.
22:06:02 <ehird`> sure, go ahead, whatever
22:06:23 <ehird`> as long as it looks like a circle to me
22:06:52 <RodgerTheGreat> you can approximate sine as a McLaurin series, and then do it with just +-/*
22:07:29 <ehird`> i'm just looking for a 50x50 drawing that the average person would recognize as a smooth-for-its-size circle
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22:14:01 <ihope> I don't think Galois circles generally look a thing like "real" circles. :-)
22:18:25 <bsmntbombdood> i've been disconnected 4 times in the last hour, and while i am connected i get about 2kb/s
22:18:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
22:22:29 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat, it's 100 lines already, isn't it
22:28:03 <ehird`> how long will it be when it's done? 5000?
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22:29:54 <ehird`> ok, i think drawing a circle is way harder than it needs to be. heh
22:33:32 <ehird`> well, how many characters of BF would you estimate it to be?
22:33:39 <ehird`> i want using this to draw simple shapes /relatively/ simply :)
22:35:18 <RodgerTheGreat> well, a rectangle would be a fuckload easier to write efficiently
22:35:59 <ehird`> but circles are common things