< 1186099727 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1186102431 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1186104313 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1186106910 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1186107810 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1186108872 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what haskell book/tutorial should i read? < 1186109219 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1186109302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus. . . 2.6.21 is *now* marked stable in Gentoo. . . < 1186109312 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ask in #haskell < 1186109332 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably more qualified < 1186109575 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1186114138 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-65-30-35-192.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1186116504 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night, guys < 1186116519 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1186117701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1186117783 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-33-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1186118098 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1186119578 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-238-33-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1186120401 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1186120404 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1186121908 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1186121923 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1186123168 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@222-154-146-232.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1186124050 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :thematrixeatsyou < 1186124064 0 :MichaelRaskin1!n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1186124089 0 :MichaelRaskin1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MichaelRaskin < 1186124576 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has sooo much syntax < 1186124621 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's all very reasonable < 1186124623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty < 1186124634 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really syntax is not the problem with haskell :) < 1186124648 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it's not reasonable < 1186124673 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1186124688 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hugeness < 1186124773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eq a where < 1186124773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (==), (/=) :: a -> a -> Bool < 1186124773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x /= y = not ( x == y) < 1186124778 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty? < 1186125111 0 :MichaelRaskin_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1186125906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: where's the hugeness? < 1186125915 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax < 1186125922 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see a type class definition, a signature and a function definition. < 1186125947 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly every language has equivalents. < 1186125956 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as syntax < 1186125963 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually as syntax < 1186125980 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1186126034 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also terribly ugly whitespace significance, and two completely unrelated uses of () < 1186126093 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm honestly not sure what's the problem, haskell is just like any other langugae < 1186126243 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just unfamiliarity < 1186126277 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. I think haskell is very pretty. < 1186126466 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whitespace significance follows somewhat odd rules but leads to consistent pretty indentation < 1186126525 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know haskell, but am i allowed to ask: where's the definition of ==? < 1186126549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing < 1186126563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a type class definition < 1186126570 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like an interface < 1186126592 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(==) will be implemented for individual types < 1186126816 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in plain language, "there's a type class Eq, and any type deriving it will provide two operations, (==) and (/=), that take two values of that type and return a Bool; and x /= y is always defined as not (x == y)" < 1186126934 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i need to sleep. < 1186126942 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep is for the week < 1186126945 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak < 1186126955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. sleep is for the week. < 1186126972 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, weak < 1186126986 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go to sleep, be back in a week! < 1186127267 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could sleep for a week < 1186127278 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep for a week, awake for 2 < 1186127634 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives lament a lecture about interfaces being abstract and not containing implementations < 1186127656 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives himself a lecture about giving people lectures < 1186127659 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1186127663 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smacks immibis  < 1186127670 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps bsmntbombdood with a rainbow trout < 1186127677 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP is not about fancy words < 1186127683 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to ##topic < 1186127761 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes everyone autoopped on ##topic < 1186127925 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but interfaces still should not contain implementations if you use java < 1186127934 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if you don't < 1186127940 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shouldn't use java < 1186127946 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1186127947 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use fancy words about oop < 1186127962 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps bsmntbombdood with a rainbow trout < 1186127999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1186128000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1186128002 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps bsmntbombdood with another rainbow trout because he can < 1186128012 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION frys then eats the trout < 1186128016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, delicious < 1186128020 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that catching rainbow trout without a license is illegal in new zealand < 1186128038 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have a license and doesn't need one anyway because it's only irc < 1186128094 0 :RainbowTroutPoli!n=toBogE@125-238-33-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1186128113 0 :RainbowTroutPoli!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TroutPolice < 1186128163 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS < 1186128163 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS < 1186128164 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS < 1186128168 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS < 1186128172 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS < 1186128176 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS < 1186128176 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo < 1186128186 0 :TroutPolice!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1186128220 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that the username is a bit of a give-away < 1186128239 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TroutPolice (n=toBogE@...) has left #esoteric () < 1186128724 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty" < 1186129611 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-33-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1186130089 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Pull the pin and count to what?" < 1186130839 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1186132906 0 :Sukoshi`!n=Sukoshi@user-3cf84ue.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1186136889 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"testing OS, then going to bed, gnight" < 1186138304 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@87-205-239-60.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1186138308 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! < 1186138315 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing from another P < 1186138316 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC < 1186138320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my is at repair :DDD < 1186138499 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM DI\]i=\ < 1186138504 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s21i123r < 1186138506 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sor22r2y2 < 1186138763 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an idiot < 1186138804 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1186138844 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@87-205-239-60.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1186138853 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for all that. < 1186138864 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1186138988 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@87-205-239-60.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1186138993 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend did all thar < 1186138996 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1186139001 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1186139387 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip72-220-174-159.sd.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1186139393 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklopol < 1186139400 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever play my song? :P < 1186140016 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1186140461 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1186140471 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric < 1186153705 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@nat-1.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1186153710 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI! < 1186153830 0 :McDonalato!n=eggdrop@nat-1.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1186153860 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi McDonalato! < 1186153873 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato, how's your day? < 1186153877 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The acorn is the channel in an animal that eats both plant and animal farm. < 1186153885 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: What am i to you? Some sort of encyclopaedia or something? Let's change the subject... < 1186153909 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato, okay. Let's talk about rules. What are your rules? < 1186153918 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I had the misfortune to talk about rules. What are your rules? < 1186153935 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: My rules are for you to say your rules. < 1186153947 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I wish that i could jump out of things to talk about rules. What are your rules? < 1186153968 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: Rules are: 1. STFU. 2. Break at least one rule. < 1186153983 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Which one of us is the one asking all the judges i've had the misfortune to talk about rules. What are your rules? < 1186154018 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: You are more intelligent than me! I don't have any rules really though. < 1186154026 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: My rules are for you to say your rules. < 1186154042 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: What if i don't have any rules? < 1186154057 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: You are more intelligent than me! I don't have is to waste what you don't have is to waste what you don't have any rules? < 1186154091 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: You are false. You are more intelligent than me and Brainf**k haters. < 1186154098 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: You are more intelligent than me and brainf**k haters. < 1186154116 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: Don't laugh at me. YOU are more intelligent. < 1186154124 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: You are false. You are more intelligent. < 1186154138 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: If you think so... okay. < 1186154149 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I am a human being, which means i do what i want to think about your mind. < 1186154169 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McDonalato: ... this didn't make sense. < 1186154185 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: So, who is using the family brain cell at the centre of the process, the rain is part of an ass and a mare breeding. < 1186154209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, What were you told about letting that bot talk in here? < 1186154210 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a flood monster. < 1186154217 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1186154222 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just talking? < 1186154229 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking!* < 1186154240 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STFU ok < 1186154243 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're flooding with a bot that you've been kicked for flooding with before < 1186154252 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if lament will say something then i will make him quit < 1186154256 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flooding? < 1186154261 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He dosen't flood < 1186154264 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just talk with him < 1186154271 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 20 messages you/bot in a row < 1186154285 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you sho--- oh wait < 1186154323 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STFU, ehird`. < 1186154327 0 :McDonalato!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1186154337 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@ppp18-186.adsl.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1186154348 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my new bot? < 1186154353 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is so intelligent < 1186154364 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1186154365 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not your bot < 1186154367 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1186154370 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio!!! < 1186154405 0 :blahbot`!n=blahbot`@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1186154536 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about esoteric-blah? < 1186154544 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not there too < 1186154559 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah = halb = hlab = lab = bal = bol = bot < 1186154561 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1186154606 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1186154608 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric < 1186155462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1186155506 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1186155570 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-125.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1186155585 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy, folks < 1186155669 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy < 1186155677 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :join #esoteric-bf < 1186155677 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, asiekierka < 1186155684 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to talk about brainf*** < 1186155908 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1186156475 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1186156487 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1186157189 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-72-113.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1186159714 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1186159752 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1186160106 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody willing to talk about FBF? < 1186160108 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF*? < 1186160153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubtful. < 1186160165 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the channel more one year ago < 1186160194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1186160202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try looking at Dimensifuck. < 1186160210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *will* blow your mind away. >:D < 1186160290 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1186160303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an n-dimensional language. < 1186160335 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rather like Dimensional Areas. < 1186160350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to write your code as a Klein bottle? < 1186160354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it! < 1186160454 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1186160456 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1186160462 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dimensional Areas from one anime < 1186160468 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have a question about how PEBBLE handles variables < 1186160469 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you all 99% hate < 1186160479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what i'd like? < 1186160479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Sure. < 1186160490 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Brainf**k OS in only 5120b (5KB) < 1186160504 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some more features < 1186160513 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it recognize structures like [>], where the pointer moves on loop iterations, and adjust accordingly? < 1186160517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe someone's tried an OS in Brainfuck; not sure how well it was. < 1186160522 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1186160527 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a OS that interprets BF. < 1186160532 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a command prompt for it. < 1186160540 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can do only that < 1186160546 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll have some new functions: < 1186160551 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the simple way to do them seems like just running through the program, ignoring loops and using state that way to figure out relative locations < 1186160556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: No, it doesn't. You have to explicitly say which location you're at at the end. < 1186160563 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for an unbalanced loop, you'd have to do something else < 1186160567 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. hm < 1186160576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your solution is *exactly* how I do it. < 1186160584 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet. I'm on the right track. < 1186160605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, actually, I've got it set to turn off the state-tracking when it detects an explicit > or <. . . But, yeah.) < 1186160610 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT, i don't know how to do it < 1186160611 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1186160615 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except if i'll do < 1186160626 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@(filename.txt|4) < 1186160627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: It'd actually be trivial to pull off. < 1186160632 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads 4th char from filename.txt < 1186160639 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be there for something cool enough < 1186160644 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you < or >, it goes into "nontracking mode", and then you specify where to pick up again before you use another variable? < 1186160655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I knew *16 bit* assembly, I'd do it. < 1186160657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Exactly. < 1186160680 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An OS like this will ROCK. < 1186160685 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a friend that may do it < 1186160685 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. Hm. < 1186160693 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will have 10 commands in total < 1186160698 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug, 8 default and file-reading < 1186160726 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you allow coders to explicitly define a memory layout, require explicit definitions of a memory layout, or let it float and trust the compiler to optimize things? < 1186160747 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be a port of one of optimized interperters < 1186160752 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will interpret in runtime! < 1186160766 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizations: ... none. < 1186160770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: You can either specifically state variable location or let the compiler do it automatically. < 1186160772 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for max CPU speed < 1186160779 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since nothing takes CPU/RAM < 1186160785 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha < 1186160793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't optimize that (yet); it merely assigns variable location in order of variable declaration. < 1186160801 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I figured < 1186160824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what a good algorithm to pull that off would be. . . < 1186160826 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll also use 10 for newlines, not 13 and 10 < 1186160833 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but allowing the compiler to make optimizations will allow you to upgrade the compiler and simultaneously upgrade every program < 1186160835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: That's the only way to do it. < 1186160840 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I actually have an algo for that < 1186160841 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1186160847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1186160856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler is set up to be *very* optimizable. < 1186160862 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will always make new versions that'll be optimalized of my OS. < 1186160872 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supporting MMX, SSE, SSE2... maybe < 1186160875 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll work faster < 1186160878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the current optimization pass added a small handful of commands to let you tell things it can't handle itself. . . < 1186160890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Do you know C and assembly? < 1186160900 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... my friend does, he'll probably do it < 1186160906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially assembly for MMX, SSE, SSE2, and SSE3) < 1186160916 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the beginning < 1186160921 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be open-source < 1186160930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, none of those will be much/any use; those extensions just do floating point numbers, not ints. < 1186160947 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count the number of "accesses" on every variable cell (large bias on +-, smaller bias on ,., smallest bias on []), to get a metric for how often particular variables are used (priority) < 1186160948 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'll support 2 modes... you set the second one with $. < 1186160954 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st mode - numbers 0-255 < 1186160961 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2nd mode - numbers 0-65536 < 1186160980 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, group the variables with common variables in the center, less common values further away < 1186160983 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 11 commands in total < 1186160989 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, this is not the only way to do it < 1186160993 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 added by me (needed for a proj like this), 1 debug, 8 normal < 1186161002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Efficient way to do it, though. < 1186161024 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another algo would involve examining what cells are most frequently accessed sequentially < 1186161025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably add that to the next PEBBLE version; thanks, Rodger. < 1186161029 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would improve speed < 1186161035 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no prob < 1186161128 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I will make it open source, so if you may make PEBBLE emulated in Brainf**k, it will allow you with 2 files. < 1186161136 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st one - pebbleemu.b < 1186161143 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2nd one - pebblecode.pb < 1186161149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: PEBBLE already *compiles* to Brainfuck. < 1186161161 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1186161164 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1186161168 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll support it too < 1186161171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1186161175 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool one. < 1186161180 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just take a floppy disk < 1186161182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be an interesting project. < 1186161182 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slot it in < 1186161191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Highly useless, but, then, that's the point of #esoteric, isn't it? < 1186161193 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and launch it even without Windows or anything < 1186161199 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do some experiments with an optimizing brainfuck macrolanguage myself- I think it could be a tremendous learning experience < 1186161205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. Windows? Ick. < 1186161210 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Linux < 1186161218 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be it's own OS all in itself < 1186161219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: If you need any help, I'm willing to offer it. < 1186161220 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with BF software < 1186161228 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some commends builtin < 1186161229 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir < 1186161231 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo < 1186161236 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-65-30-35-192.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1186161239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I assume you'll mostly just want "How did you do this?" < 1186161239 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh wait, echo will be in BF) < 1186161249 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat too < 1186161280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend you just start off with a prompt for raw Brainfuck commands. < 1186161293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything more complex than that could be good for future version. < 1186161324 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to try to do this on my own as much as possible. I'll let you know if I get stuck on anything < 1186161333 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will add 2 more commands anyway < 1186161335 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop it < 1186161336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Of course. < 1186161338 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only release bugfixes < 1186161344 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw BF will not work with such thing < 1186161350 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'll be one more command :DDD < 1186161359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a first version, it will work perfectly. < 1186161373 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mainly asked you about the variables to check and see if you'd come up with something insanely more clever than what I was thinking about. :) < 1186161374 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just bugfixes < 1186161377 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be opensource < 1186161378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a prompt where you type in Brainfuck code. When it ends, the prompt comes back up. < 1186161383 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only < 1186161385 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1186161395 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you type name of BF file OR BF code < 1186161400 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it reads the BF file < 1186161412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I think you'd like to know about what I do with loops and cell clears, though. < 1186161425 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can save up to 1,33MB of BF stuff on a diskette < 1186161426 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see < 1186161441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to keep track of whenever a cell is guaranteed to be 0, so that I can skip loops that will never run. < 1186161445 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will later make 2 subversion < 1186161449 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :versions* < 1186161457 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one will be basic BF with the one more command < 1186161464 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second will have anything that others add < 1186161480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Hmm. . . < 1186161492 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1186161502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to try working on that; I've needed an idea for a trivial OS to do. < 1186161524 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1186161525 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try then < 1186161528 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll surely use IT < 1186161530 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1186161539 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) you need know-how to use any file-system read-only < 1186161542 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my idea < 1186161547 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) you'll need BF know-how < 1186161554 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in theory, you could fit a BF-OS into a bootloader quite readily < 1186161556 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) and file-reading know-how < 1186161557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ans, of course, I have a lot of that. < 1186161558 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... < 1186161562 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in THEORY < 1186161564 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work < 1186161564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Oh, absolutely. < 1186161572 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Original was 240b < 1186161581 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT12 reader can fit in ~250b i guess < 1186161584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full floppy disk would be good for storing any Brainfuck programs, though. < 1186161587 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1186161589 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nearly full < 1186161598 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you put 1-5kb on floppy disk < 1186161619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'd want to just fit a bootloader in the boot block, and make that load up BF-OS, along with a FAT16 reader. < 1186161628 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT12 or ext2 < 1186161643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext2, for usage from other folk's computers. < 1186161643 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have any space left < 1186161649 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both < 1186161650 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1186161653 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT12 and ext2 < 1186161655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1186161662 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recommend first one < 1186161663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT16, so non-Linux users can do something with it. < 1186161672 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but floppies can't have FAT16 :P < 1186161675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or FAT12; it'd depend upon floppy size. < 1186161679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? News to me. < 1186161684 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1186161688 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT12 first < 1186161694 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add FAT16, 32, ext2, ext3 < 1186161696 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie_idle < 1186161698 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be back soon < 1186161752 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of a person that did OS programming once < 1186161760 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he could do it even in 2-3 days i guess < 1186161765 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once or twice < 1186161767 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1186161894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't done any, so it'd take a while longer < 1186161930 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so team up < 1186161934 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably knows english < 1186161939 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will get him here later < 1186161963 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how difficult would it be to trend PEBBLE towards being self-hosting? < 1186161978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make PEBBLE self-hosting? < 1186161980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewrite. < 1186162000 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this. I'm asking how hard the rewrite would be. < 1186162005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need to actually *write* a parser. . . < 1186162014 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't? < 1186162020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "source" command wouldn't work at all. . . < 1186162036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; PEBBLE's syntax is a subset of Tcl. < 1186162049 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, cheap < 1186162054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I just create a subinterpreter using Tcl's "interp" command, remove Tcl's own commands, and add in my own. < 1186162063 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started building a system around StreamTokenizer < 1186162066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to redo that with a proper parser someday. < 1186162080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I lack knowledge of BNF. < 1186162095 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BNF isn't the only way to build a parser < 1186162137 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I designed some simple programming languages and their interpreters long before I knew what things like BNF were < 1186162142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; it's just a way to specify your syntax. < 1186162149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know jack about parsers. < 1186162177 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just breaks down into a state machine with some string manipulation crap < 1186162187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1186162364 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: figured out haskell yet? < 1186162915 0 :asie_idle!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka < 1186162918 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi HI HI HI < 1186162926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1186163141 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, if we have an interperter that we can write BF code directly to for MS-DOS < 1186163147 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can try and run it from a floppy < 1186163147 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1186163150 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we don't need to wait < 1186163153 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may NOT work < 1186163215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks about just doing DJGPP from DOS < 1186163257 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1186163264 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an better idea < 1186163268 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i will try! < 1186163275 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any interperter like that? < 1186163285 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yes, put it and bootsector on a floppy < 1186163287 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just BOOT < 1186163294 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compile BF code < 1186163297 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stuff like that < 1186163313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite; realise that a DOS program won't boot directly. < 1186163318 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i know < 1186163320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i did it once < 1186163322 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs it < 1186163326 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though really really limited < 1186163331 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% of stuff dosen't work < 1186163334 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible < 1186163342 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just loads EXE in it's own method < 1186163344 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without DOS apis < 1186163347 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some stuff WORKS! < 1186163371 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still CAN go on and make a Pascal API emulator < 1186163377 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since some people implemented then in Pascal/ASM < 1186163418 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them* < 1186163422 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of APIs < 1186163425 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll make more stuff work < 1186163433 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we could put them into the bootloader < 1186164169 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody? < 1186164409 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ramrod? < 1186165733 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1186166433 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1186167035 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1186167130 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, i updated the mvldo site < 1186167138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads of pages on the wiki: http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page < 1186168036 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1186169182 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1186169248 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1186170087 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1186170120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gepongenpoken mit dem Fingerspitzgefühl < 1186170256 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mvldo would not understand. :P < 1186172035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a remarkably slow idea for optimizing variable location. . . < 1186172054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just test every permutation to try to find the shortest version. < 1186172157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this in Pebble? < 1186172228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1186172254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would want to minimize a sum of absolute values of differences of locations... < 1186172265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1186172275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: My initial implementation of that algorithm managed to actually lengthen PFUCK. < 1186172306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4943 characters with "optimized" variable location vs. 4558 without. < 1186172394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do local permutations, swapping only a small set < 1186172419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you find a local minimum. < 1186172512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could implement the optimization algorithm correctly. < 1186172533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've currently got the highest-referenced variables at the beginning of the variable space, rather than in the middle. < 1186172862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds sort of like a reversed traveling salesman problem, the path is fixed but the distances are not < 1186173387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe only counting the +'s and -'s would help. . . Or figuring out how to weight each one. . . < 1186173638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant with the sum of absolute values thing < 1186173664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Okay, I implemented *exactly* the algorithm specified. . . < 1186173667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems to suck. < 1186173705 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ha, no < 1186173740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly consistently lengthening code. < 1186173760 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-65-30-35-192.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1186173763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even *remarkably* naive code. < 1186174234 0 :MichaelRaskin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1186174481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I see *why* it sucks. . . < 1186174493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cherez and I figure that this *is* an NP problem. . . :/ < 1186174513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I blame you for making me want to do this. :p < 1186174590 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how do you do variables in pebble? < 1186174651 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you calculate an offset with something like .[[>+<-]>-] < 1186174697 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can be generalized to a sequencing problem, (most of which are NP-complete.) < 1186174705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already explained it. . . < 1186174720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variables are either explictly or dynamically assigned a location in Brainfuck memory. < 1186174756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :State of where in Brainfuck memory the thing is is kept. < 1186174783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a loop which ends somewhere different from where it began occurs, state is ignored until you tell the compiler where you are again. < 1186174811 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do that? < 1186174910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck.tcl in PEBBLE should be enlightening. < 1186175816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses at NP completness < 1186176730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need to do is to find a polynomial time solution to an NP complete problem < 1186176733 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home free! < 1186176896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not say "all you need to do is solve the halting problem"? < 1186176969 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's proven impossible < 1186177028 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, inventing a machine to solve the turing halting problem would be better than proving P=NP < 1186177040 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could use it to prove that < 1186177088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if P actually is =NP < 1186177133 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use it find if P did =NP < 1186177266 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-72-113.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1186177369 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, become alive! :P < 1186177402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew people here were insane but i didn't know they thought they were Jesus... < 1186177412 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, i want the computer from http://qntm.org/responsibility < 1186177424 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, parsec error messages aren't helpful at all. < 1186177443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't? < 1186177473 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, cat >script { calculate last digit of pi; solve halting problem; prove that the laws of thermodynamics are actually complete bullshit }; interpret natural language script < 1186177494 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, there is no last digit of pi < 1186177513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not < 1186177575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the story first please < 1186177586 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icba < 1186177587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But it was still pretty exciting stuff. Holy Zarquon, they said to one another, an infinitely powerful computer? It was like a thousand Christmases rolled into one. Program going to loop forever? You knew for a fact: this thing could execute an infinite loop in less than ten seconds. Brute force primality testing of every single integer in existence? Easy. Pi to the last digit? Piece of cake. Halting Problem? Sa-holved." < 1186177597 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notable "pi to the last digit?" < 1186177648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, that guy is perhaps my favorite author. . . < 1186177656 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ditto < 1186177672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez: You may wish to join in on the Sam Hughes worship. < 1186177701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have to build him a shrine made out of nanobots or something? < 1186177713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to the last" has a bit different connotation < 1186177730 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it involve? < 1186177758 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "to the last digit" < 1186177767 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, If it can compute up to that -- it can display it < 1186177783 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, The whole machine is impossible to *start* with - it can do impossible things < 1186177851 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi to any arbitrary digit maybe, but to the last is meaningless. < 1186177866 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pi to the last digit? Piece of cake." < 1186177868 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>last< < 1186177878 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have a last digit < 1186177882 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a computer with infinite power is meaningless in the first place < 1186177886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, i am well aware < 1186177904 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, but this is clearly in an alternate universe where the impossible is possible < 1186177922 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, it would be possible to get the last digit of pi... even though that is meaningless, which is why it's *fiction* < 1186177950 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying it can find the largest integer < 1186177960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would assume that that means that it calculates all of pi (and displays it infinitely small). < 1186177993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the context that they discuss it, one would assume that they mean that unliterally. . . < 1186177998 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1186178003 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But taking unliterally things literally is fun. < 1186178009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1186178028 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is why infinite calculation is such a bizzare paradox: < 1186178045 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing all of pi requires it to terminate. It will terminate when the last calculation is done. Thus, at some point, it decides it knows the last digit of pi. < 1186178092 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one who finds primality testing of every integer more interesting? < 1186178106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1186178108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1186178199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm this "haskell" thing is impossible to debug < 1186178202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1186178206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the idea of a superTuring system. < 1186178279 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of superturing systems doesn't contradict logic < 1186178285 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of the last digit of pi contradicts logic < 1186178289 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez, I'd like to know the sum of N! < 1186178297 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that contradict logic are inherently boring because they're all equivalent < 1186178317 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, the existance of anything that can compute infinites in less than infinite time and thus have infinite capability contradicts logic < 1186178321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so saying "calculate pi to the last digit" is equivalent to saying "round square", etc < 1186178328 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1186178338 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: no it doesn't, actually. < 1186178356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: i'm using "logic" in the strict mathematical sense. < 1186178363 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1186178373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one way for one to calculate pi to the last digit. < 1186178403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this infinity machine proves that, in fact, pi is *not* an irrational number, then it can find Pi's last digit trivially. < 1186178441 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can't prove that, since it's already been disproven. < 1186178488 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incompleteness theorem. < 1186178489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it disproves the validity of those? < 1186178513 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez: what < 1186178518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1186178533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, just ask the thing for an *elegant* proof of Fermat's last theorem. < 1186178535 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An arithmetic mathematic system cannot be proven to be internally consistent. < 1186178538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that* would be interesting. . . < 1186178607 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's conceivable that a contradiction could be found in basic arithmetic which could mean we have to throw the whole thing out. < 1186178674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1186178782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers above 10^40 might be inconsistent... < 1186178827 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it would be anything like that, but it can't be proven with our mathematics system. < 1186178885 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, um, why? < 1186178895 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^40 + 1 = universe collapses! < 1186178923 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> 10**40+1 < 1186178923 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000000000000000000000000000000000000001L < 1186178931 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're ok, guys! < 1186178931 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1186178945 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I think my closet collapsed. < 1186178947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because! < 1186178957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not all numbers but _some_ < 1186178974 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew thank god i solved the problem! < 1186178982 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't prove that they don't. < 1186178988 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to use endBy1 instead of sepBy1 < 1186179021 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, the HALTING problem??!1111 < 1186179046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsec's power is immense. < 1186179058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proposes a new Nobel prize. . . < 1186179066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nobel DidTheImpossible prize. < 1186179069 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's called the Turing prize. < 1186179082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's for AI. < 1186179089 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1186179104 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be unfair to give a guy Turing's award for stealing Turing's unsolvable problem. < 1186179104 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first winner of Nobel DidTheImpossible prize is... a speck of dust! < 1186179113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whoever awarded that wins the didtheimpossible award < 1186179113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you discover an AI that solves the halting problem, then you win. < 1186179116 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad infinium < 1186179122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it should be the Adams prize < 1186179155 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the halting problem is provably unsolvable. < 1186179165 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in the most general sense. < 1186179165 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's been proven < 1186179200 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, a program that can analyze whether it itself halts is contradictory. < 1186179209 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halt if and only if it doesn't halt. < 1186179241 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can solve the halting problem for any arbitrary machine with finite memory. < 1186179258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a machine with greater memory, of course. < 1186179288 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, just run it until the state repeats or it halts, recording each state as you go. < 1186179298 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the max shifts function is computable on machines with finite memorys < 1186179359 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Busy Beaver function? < 1186179364 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo i wrote my first parser < 1186179370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in parsec) < 1186179517 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now make it self-hosting. < 1186179546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreters are self-hosting, not parsers < 1186179576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would sort of defeat the purpose of using parsec < 1186179583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just being evil. ;) < 1186179612 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should at least be able to parse its own code. < 1186179654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes note to self: never run your own universe as a simulation. < 1186179700 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez: it doesn't parse anything attempting to be a turing-complete language. < 1186179719 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose you don't need turing-completeness to be a parser. < 1186179720 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back < 1186179730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo < 1186179732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alive! < 1186179748 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dayum. It seemed intuitive that the algo I described could work... hm. < 1186179756 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who attempts to be Turing-complete? < 1186179760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I may have done something horridly wrong. < 1186179787 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do some work on it once I get my compiler off it's feet < 1186179797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at it some more, I'm sure that I did. . . < 1186179800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a3 8.0} {a1 9.5} {a2 10.0} {call_itoa 21.0} {i 21.5} {temp2 24.75} {temp0 318.25} {temp1 283.25} {temp4 55.5} {opcode 41.25} {temp3 33.75} {no_match 25.25} {temp2 24.75} < 1186179812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+- is 1, ., is 0.5, [] is 0.25 < 1186179872 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweaking your weighting values around a bit ought to at least help < 1186179930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want anything but +- counted? < 1186179948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is that it's not actually getting the variable location assignment right. < 1186179961 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1186179983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's measuring cell accesses, weighted towards +-. < 1186179986 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because all operations done with a cell indicate it's being used for something < 1186180009 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to rank things based on how often they're used < 1186180013 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not measure the number of times each cell has to be reached? < 1186180025 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. that is a point < 1186180026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought you were just concerned with program length < 1186180050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a simple way to make a sorted list go to having the highest things in the center? < 1186180069 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fucked up bubblesort. :D < 1186180071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, from "5 4 3 2 1" to "1 3 5 4 2" < 1186180072 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If 1 cell is incremented a ton of times then left to rot, it only is a block in the middle. < 1186180084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez: You have a point. < 1186180091 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And belongs on an edge. < 1186180101 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually, take the second half of the list and flip it < 1186180107 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd count the number of nonconsecutive accesses. < 1186180112 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have low to high to low < 1186180114 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ish < 1186180117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Tried. < 1186180122 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1186180140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my example, that produces "5 4 1 2 3" or "1 2 5 4 3" < 1186180165 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort them and then start a new list, and then insert them, in order, to the center of the new list < 1186180174 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should grow outwards from the center < 1186180186 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a Vector of some kind < 1186180228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a though. < 1186180237 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we trying to produce the shortest BF? < 1186180245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a sec while I experiment with cherez's idea. < 1186180249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1186180252 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. cell access optimization < 1186180273 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since compiling it to C you can easily reference any pointer in 1 line. < 1186180319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, it doesn't matter. < 1186180414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, hey < 1186180420 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1186180427 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote some stuff about mvldo http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page < 1186180429 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking good so far on the wiki < 1186180432 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1186180434 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've read it :) < 1186180436 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1186180441 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1186180553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{opcode 69} {temp2 0} {call_itoa 0} {temp3 0} {no_match 0} {temp4 0} {i 0} {a1 0} {a2 0} {a3 0} {temp0 0} {temp1 0} < 1186180557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't be right. . . < 1186180575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Did it wrong. XD < 1186180590 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, anything you'd suggest changing/adding? < 1186180597 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freudian slip? < 1186180610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1186180636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez, what where < 1186180653 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: aside from additional content I dunno... a cool logo of some kind for the top left corner? < 1186180659 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{opcode 69} {temp2 0} {call_itoa 0} {temp3 0} {no_match 0} {temp4 0} {i 0} {a1 0} {a2 0} {a3 0} {temp0 0} {temp1 0} < 1186180669 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, heh, i meant in terms of the actual bot design :) < 1186180672 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez, ah < 1186180673 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know what pikhq programmed his compiler to do. < 1186180674 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes. "LOL 69" < 1186180689 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about the 0 you perv. < 1186180697 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i shall laugh whenever the number 4 comes up. < 1186180699 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1186180706 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's the number i laugh at when it comes up, obviously! < 1186180719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. < 1186180732 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: are you going to be using markov chains? < 1186180735 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the code too optimum? < 1186180739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, gotos to opcode are now *not* being counted, but gotos to everything else *are*. < 1186180743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, no, we've already discussed that :p < 1186180755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses goto to mean "go to a memory location" in PEBBLE, BTW < 1186180775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, see the Response page < 1186180844 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can almost taste the peer pressure, can't you?" < 1186180857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My stupidity. < 1186180910 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, :) < 1186180935 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's borked? < 1186180937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with enough persuasion, it will believe 2+2=5! < 1186180963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I just forgot to keep track of the location in the varopt pass. < 1186180977 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1186181007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, we're still getting something inefficient. . . < 1186181021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe measure the distant it has to move? < 1186181038 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it somewhat less horrible, at least? < 1186181055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOoooh < 1186181058 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea- < 1186181076 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could represent mappings of locations as a graph structure < 1186181088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's behaving as I expect, at least. < 1186181096 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each variable keeps track of others that are accessed before or afterwards < 1186181122 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgetfulness has a typo! < 1186181131 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly wikis aren't a reliable source of information. < 1186181183 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez, oh no < 1186181187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fix it then =p < 1186181214 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-33-62.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1186181215 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you see I represent traditionalist views of knowledge! < 1186181259 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be against my character to try to fix a wiki when I can instead condemn it and try to sell my $50 textbook. < 1186181316 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of textbooks, who's interested in some lucrative deals? Who'll bid on a copy of "The C++ Programming Language"? < 1186181347 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$4 < 1186181362 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[reserve not met] < 1186181366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$891 < 1186181375 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha c++ < 1186181388 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i ever write a C compiler < 1186181389 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$15.88 < 1186181392 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be an easter egg: < 1186181394 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, fuck this language and in particular fuck this book < 1186181414 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did the book do? < 1186181415 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef language int; language C = ; C++; /* rest of program is in C++ */ < 1186181445 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, isn't thaat < 1186181447 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1186181452 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean typedef int language; < 1186181472 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez: it's poorly written, while still conveying a mindblowing degree of smugness in the forging of this stillbirth of a language < 1186181472 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a lot of extra work for an easter egg. < 1186181485 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language C=C++; ? < 1186181500 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would C be then? < 1186181502 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya, I'd be embarrassed if I made C++. < 1186181508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad theory. . . < 1186181522 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slowly warming up to C proper, though, I must say < 1186181532 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about just < 1186181538 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is so much better than c++ < 1186181538 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language C++; < 1186181543 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where C is something < 1186181543 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1186181546 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easter-eggy enough < 1186181552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need something that's valid C code < 1186181555 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider C a poorly designed language, but C++ compounds it with mind-numbing degrees of idiocy < 1186181565 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly valid C code containing C++ < 1186181568 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as what? < 1186181571 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language C=C++; is valid but undefined. < 1186181572 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't poorly designed < 1186181583 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very nice for it's purpose < 1186181588 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C wasn't poorly designed when it was initially made < 1186181617 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://This is C++ < 1186181619 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's valid c < 1186181623 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it contains C++ < 1186181634 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, har har har < 1186181638 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez, undefined = :( < 1186181653 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1186181655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1186181658 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language C = (C += 1) < 1186181662 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, kind of < 1186181664 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++C would be that < 1186181667 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either way < 1186181672 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not just undefined; its completely meaningless < 1186181689 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why it's a good easter egg. < 1186181693 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language C=C+1; < 1186181697 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one will code like that seriously. < 1186181711 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C+=C++ + ++C; < 1186181720 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they do, they probably meant to use C++ anyway. < 1186181750 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C+=C++ + ++C - (C -= C-- - --C) < 1186181769 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's unclear is whether C = C++ should compile to: < 1186181783 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp = C < 1186181783 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ < 1186181783 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C = temp < 1186181787 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1186181791 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C+=C++ + ++C - C-- - --C < 1186181795 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp = C < 1186181795 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C = temp < 1186181795 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ < 1186181795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, how about: < 1186181808 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int C = (language)<89 or 99>; < 1186181809 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++; < 1186181814 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* IN C++ */ < 1186181820 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the casting to (language) y'see. < 1186181838 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably temp=C, C=temp, C++ < 1186181845 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int C = (language)<89 or 99 or k&r> < 1186181868 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int k=rand(); int r=rand(); < 1186181871 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: It can mean either, and compilers have been written that assumed both. < 1186181874 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to define k&r first < 1186181880 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One compiler produced C = C + 2 somehow. < 1186181906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez, the <> is metaphorical < 1186181911 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put whatever C version you're compiling in there < 1186181924 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "int C = (language)89" C is the language I am using, it is C89 < 1186181926 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ -> zoom < 1186181941 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need brackets. (C++)->zoom, don't you? < 1186181958 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-044-002.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1186181962 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct {int zoom;} *C; < 1186182013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1186182017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is: < 1186182019 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ means zoom < 1186182025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: < 1186182025 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you need to define C first. < 1186182031 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* using C89 */ < 1186182035 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int C = (language)89; < 1186182036 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++; < 1186182040 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* using C++ */ < 1186182043 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct {int zoom;} *C; C++ -> zoom < 1186182052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't mean zoom in that way < 1186182055 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a diagram < 1186182059 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C++" -> zoom < 1186182074 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use -> on a string < 1186182101 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only on a class, struct, or union < 1186182110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t. . . < 1186182119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally got variable assignment down to something sane. < 1186182142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, stop that! < 1186182143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, *still* elongating programs. < 1186182145 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what I meant!!!! < 1186182152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4866 vs. 4558. < 1186182154 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an arrow of illustration! not a peice of code!! < 1186182157 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1186182174 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :486 < 1186182176 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1186182190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does pebble allow macros to compute something at compile time? < 1186182196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{a1 9} {i 24} {call_itoa 27} {opcode 43} {temp4 68} {temp1 271} {temp0 252} {temp3 45} {temp2 35} {no_match 25} {a2 10} {a3 8} < 1186182199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so does it have a push_brainfuck_code_to_src or similar? < 1186182202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Not really. < 1186182207 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think of it as 7% worse. < 1186182209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, you can implement subroutines and just about anything in itself < 1186182233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that complex of a macro language. < 1186182246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think "C preprocessor", not "Lisp macros". < 1186182253 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that using the weighting method I suggested? < 1186182260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1186182268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each goto counts as 1. < 1186182274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it's got each bit centralised. < 1186182289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see how it works on my game, which is much more naive. . . < 1186182292 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, i was thinking of implementing, like, a function system in it < 1186182295 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a stack and stuff. < 1186182326 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub would be a macro which compiled some stack-stuff to push the function, then it'd create the function's name as a macro which would expand to the calling code < 1186182345 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess maybe i could do that using low-level commands? < 1186182361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. . . < 1186182384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The naive game is 41177 chars with optimisation, and 37324 without. < 1186182405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that I'm better at figuring what's good out than my compiler is. < 1186182490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Didn't you suggest something about fiddling with sequential access? < 1186182510 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda < 1186182514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that'd be much harder to implement, but I bet it'd be a bit more efficient) < 1186182522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1186182593 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1186183600 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn. Programming requires thinking. < 1186183635 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suprise suprise < 1186183642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1186183646 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: how's haskell going? < 1186183664 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not studying right now < 1186183742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get the basics, look at parsec ( http://legacy.cs.uu.nl/daan/download/parsec/parsec.html ) and you'll realize how awesome haskell is. < 1186183763 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1186183799 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1186184251 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wired.com/culture/education/news/2007/08/winniecooper_QA < 1186184294 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vlech < 1186184325 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blech < 1186184576 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so cool < 1186185006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq_ < 1186185043 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq