←2007-08-15 2007-08-16 2007-08-17→ ↑2007 ↑all
00:00:23 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("QUIT")
00:00:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit.
00:00:31 <ehird`> ... wait what.
00:00:38 <bsmnt_bot> JOOO KILLED IT
00:00:38 <ehird`> hahaha
00:00:41 <ihope> Lol, internet.
00:00:50 <ehird`> irp bot
00:00:51 <ehird`> :p
00:00:58 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmnt_bot_.
00:01:03 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
00:01:10 <ihope> Rofl, internet.
00:01:29 <bsmnt_bot_> ~exeself.raw("nickbsmntbombdood")
00:01:35 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
00:01:38 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG :#esoteric No, I am sparctacus!")
00:01:43 <ehird`> well damn.
00:01:46 -!- bsmnt_bot_ has changed nick to bsmnt_bot.
00:01:52 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am sparctacus!")
00:01:53 <bsmntbombdood> No, I am sparctacus!
00:02:04 * ehird` wonders if you did that manually
00:02:07 <bsmnt_bot> STOP POOPING
00:02:13 <ihope> Did what manually?
00:02:16 <ehird`> STOP SMURFING
00:02:29 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" + 193751234*123984726)
00:02:29 <bsmntbombdood> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'long' objects
00:02:37 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % 193751234*123984726)
00:02:38 <bsmntbombdood> OverflowError: repeated string is too long
00:02:47 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % (193751234*123984726))
00:02:48 <bsmntbombdood> 24022193659651884
00:02:49 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :" + str(193751234*123984726))
00:02:50 <bsmntbombdood> 24022193659651884
00:02:53 <ihope> Can't quite do that manually :-P
00:03:12 <ehird`> maybe he is very good at mental arithmetic
00:03:19 <bsmnt_bot> very good, he is
00:03:24 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * 23)
00:03:25 <bsmntbombdood> PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :
00:03:39 <ihope> Indeed, 22.
00:03:41 <ehird`> bsmnt_bot: indeed
00:04:00 <bsmnt_bot> ~exec self.raw("privmsg #esoteric :ihope" * 69)
00:04:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Excess Flood).
00:04:08 <ihope> Lol, internet.
00:04:19 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
00:04:20 <ehird`> i know the perfect test!
00:04:24 <ihope> What?
00:04:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
00:04:25 <ehird`> aww
00:04:26 <ehird`> he's gone
00:04:30 <ehird`> boring.
00:04:34 <ihope> Egad, swappage.
00:04:36 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood_.
00:05:09 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%i" % (math.pi))
00:05:09 <bsmntbombdood_> 3
00:05:13 <ihope> Woot!
00:05:15 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%d" % (math.pi))
00:05:16 <bsmntbombdood_> 3
00:05:16 <jix> ^^
00:05:19 <ehird`> wtf
00:05:23 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.pi))
00:05:23 <bsmntbombdood_> 3.1415926535897931
00:05:27 <ehird`> wow
00:05:31 <ehird`> very good at memorizing pi i see
00:05:40 <jix> i know more digits
00:05:46 <ihope> Nah, mental calculation.
00:05:58 <bsmntbombdood> WHO IS WHO?!?!
00:06:06 <ihope> YOU ARE YOU!!!!!
00:06:11 <jix> 3.14159265358979323846264 i know so many but i knew more once...
00:06:14 <jix> but forgot some of them
00:06:30 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.e))
00:06:31 <bsmntbombdood_> 2.7182818284590451
00:06:34 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.exp(math.pi))
00:06:35 <bsmntbombdood_> 23.140692632779267
00:06:40 <ehird`> wow
00:06:43 <ehird`> he is very good at mental calculation.
00:06:47 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.sqrt(math.pi))
00:06:48 <bsmntbombdood_> 1.7724538509055159
00:06:53 <ehird`> *clap*
00:06:58 <ihope> Pff, how do you know those are right?
00:07:06 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)^j))
00:07:07 <bsmntbombdood_> NameError: name 'j' is not defined
00:07:09 <ehird`> ruby says so
00:07:10 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)^J))
00:07:11 <bsmntbombdood_> NameError: name 'J' is not defined
00:07:16 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)^1j))
00:07:20 <ehird`> j1.
00:07:21 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'float' and 'complex'
00:07:26 <ehird`> oh
00:07:30 <ehird`> heh.
00:07:42 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec os.unlink("/bot/keep_running")
00:07:43 <bsmntbombdood_> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/bot/keep_running'
00:07:48 <bsmntbombdood> aaaw
00:07:51 <ihope> ~exec sys.stdout(1j^1j)
00:07:52 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'complex' and 'complex'
00:07:53 <jix> ehird`: the imaginary unit is i not j
00:07:59 <ehird`> jix: not in python
00:08:01 <jix> huh?
00:08:03 <jix> wtf?!
00:08:05 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.hypot(math.exp(math.pi)))
00:08:06 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: hypot() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
00:08:13 <ehird`> jix: also in engineering it's i
00:08:17 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.hypot(math.exp(math.pi), 1j))
00:08:18 <jix> but j and k are used too for quaternions
00:08:18 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z)
00:08:21 <ihope> j, you mean.
00:08:25 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.hypot(math.exp(math.pi), abs(1j)))
00:08:26 <bsmntbombdood_> 23.162289513879337
00:08:38 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood_: you are exceedingly gifted
00:08:43 <ihope> Are you sure quaternions aren't symmetrical
00:08:46 <ehird`> may i suggest you join MENSA rather than posing as a bot?
00:08:52 <ihope> ~exec sys.stdout("Thank you!")
00:08:53 <bsmntbombdood_> Thank you!
00:09:10 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.sqrt(1j))
00:09:11 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z)
00:09:15 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.sqrt(abs(1j)))
00:09:16 <bsmntbombdood_> 1.0
00:09:19 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % abs(1j))
00:09:19 <bsmntbombdood_> 1.0
00:09:21 <jix> ihope: sym what?
00:09:21 <ihope> ~exec sys.stdout("Do they have an IRC interface? I'm afraid I'm connected directly to IRC.")
00:09:22 <bsmntbombdood_> Do they have an IRC interface? I'm afraid I'm connected directly to IRC.
00:09:22 <ehird`> oh
00:09:39 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.tan(math.exp(math.pi)*1j))
00:09:40 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z)
00:09:42 <ihope> Um...
00:09:43 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.tan(math.exp(math.pi)))
00:09:43 <bsmntbombdood_> 2.2317672777233026
00:09:46 <bsmntbombdood> irc is my only output
00:09:49 <ehird`> <clap clap>
00:10:06 <lament> do you honestly expect python stdlib functions to work on complex numbers
00:10:13 <ihope> ~exec sys.stdout(math.e ^ math.pi - math.pi)
00:10:13 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'float' and 'float'
00:10:18 <ihope> What?
00:10:23 <ihope> ~exec sys.stdout(math.e ** math.pi - math.pi)
00:10:23 <bsmntbombdood> cmath is for complex numbersss
00:10:23 <bsmntbombdood_> 19.9990999792
00:10:26 <jix> isn't ^ xor
00:10:27 <ihope> Omg, mistake.
00:10:38 <ehird`> ~exec sys.stdout(1j ** 42j)
00:10:38 <bsmntbombdood_> (2.22893071715e-29+0j)
00:10:43 -!- kwertii has joined.
00:10:46 <ehird`> ~exec sys.stdout(1j ** 42j)[0]
00:10:47 <bsmntbombdood_> (2.22893071715e-29+0j)
00:10:47 <bsmntbombdood_> TypeError: unsubscriptable object
00:10:49 <ihope> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)**1j))
00:10:51 <bsmntbombdood_> (-1+1.2246063538223773e-16j)
00:10:59 <ihope> Lol, internet.
00:11:03 <ehird`> ~exec sys.stdout("%r" % (1j ** 42j))
00:11:04 <bsmntbombdood_> (2.2289307171543185e-29+0j)
00:11:08 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.raw("ihope")
00:11:09 <ehird`> amazing mental calculation
00:11:13 <ehird`> simply amazing
00:11:20 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.raw("quit=0")
00:11:30 <ihope> Rounding error!
00:11:37 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.raw("quit")
00:11:38 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit.
00:11:39 <ehird`> ~exec self.nick = "lookhowfasticantypetochangenicks"
00:11:42 <ehird`> d'aww
00:12:06 <ihope> Actually, bsmntbombdood_ merely has an elaborate collection of macros.
00:12:31 <bsmntbombdood> a macro to give ~exec ... to a python interpreter?
00:12:49 <ihope> A Python interpreter is an elaborate collection of macros.
00:17:12 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder how hard it would be to write a python interpreter
00:22:05 <ehird`> not too hard
00:22:07 <ehird`> people have done it before
00:22:11 <ehird`> plenty of people
00:25:27 <ihope> Plenty easy to write a Python interpreter in Python.
00:25:55 <ihope> Not so much to write it in a language without such a specialized feature.
00:26:39 <bsmntbombdood> as easy as it is to write a scheme interpreter in scheme?
00:27:15 <ehird`> easier
00:27:18 <ehird`> eval(code)
00:27:21 <ehird`> actually
00:27:22 <ehird`> not that easy
00:27:27 <ehird`> since the exprstatement difference
00:27:29 <ehird`> which is stupid
00:27:51 <lament> not all things which you don't understand are stupid.
00:28:07 <ehird`> you've used that one before when i've mentioned the seperation being stupid
00:28:12 <ehird`> better luck next time
00:28:47 <lament> well, i see you still don't understand it, so my point stands :)
00:33:47 <ihope> The only things that are stupid are those that *I* don't understand.
00:34:28 <ihope> Therefore, all languages that do not follow Haskell philosophy are stupid.
00:35:08 <bsmntbombdood> UR STOPID
00:35:52 -!- ehird` has changed nick to ehird`sleep.
00:36:15 <ihope> Yay, I'm stopid!
00:36:56 <jix> no it's me who is stupid!
00:37:06 <jix> and stopid
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00:46:42 <Tritonio> bsmntbombdood, what that new brainfuck variation that I saw on the esolang forum? with the two new commands: & % ?
00:46:57 <bsmntbombdood> the one with continuations?
00:47:02 <Tritonio> yeap
00:47:14 <Tritonio> i didn't even got what the continuations is.
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00:50:01 <Tritonio> has it got to do with calling blocks of brainfuck code that return and argument? or am I completely wrong?
00:50:21 <bsmntbombdood> it has to do with continuations
00:50:31 <bsmntbombdood> you won't understand it unless you understand continuations
00:51:02 <ihope> I'm not sure I quite understand it.
00:51:21 <ihope> I probably do, but...
00:51:30 <Tritonio> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation
00:51:36 <bsmntbombdood> it's pretty simple
00:51:47 <ihope> Ah, yes, I get it.
00:52:26 <bsmntbombdood> me and the other guy disagree about it
00:52:48 <bsmntbombdood> he wants just gotos
00:53:08 <Tritonio> i still don't get it exactly.
00:53:19 <bsmntbombdood> i of course thought continuations were much cooler
00:53:34 <bsmntbombdood> Tritonio: how not?
00:53:47 <Tritonio> what's a continuation? a block of code?
00:54:00 <bsmntbombdood> a code pointer and tape
00:54:06 <Tritonio> wiki says it is the rest of the code you have to execute to finish a calculation
00:54:27 <Tritonio> so you are going to have many code tapes?
00:54:33 <bsmntbombdood> yes
00:54:56 <bsmntbombdood> making a continuation involves copying the tape
00:55:40 <bsmntbombdood> you have a sparse array, that stores (tape, code pointer) pairs
00:55:56 <bsmntbombdood> which command is it that stores a continuation?
00:56:10 <Tritonio> &?
00:57:01 <bsmntbombdood> ok, & stores the current tape and code pointer in that sparse array, the index being the value of the current cell, then keeps executing normally
00:58:16 <Tritonio> and what about: "...and change the current cell to 0 if we come from & or the argument if we come from %."
00:58:55 <bsmntbombdood> right
00:59:20 <bsmntbombdood> there has to be a way to distinguish between normall execution of &, and jumping there with a %
00:59:34 <Tritonio> oh ok...
01:00:03 <Tritonio> so & is like putting a label.
01:00:15 <Tritonio> and % is like jumping to that label.
01:00:22 <Tritonio> something like this?
01:00:46 <bsmntbombdood> % replaces the stack and code pointer with the pair indexed by the current cell, and puts the value of the next cell in the the cell where the & was
01:00:58 <bsmntbombdood> it's more than goto, because the environment is replaced
01:01:15 <Tritonio> and you also can pass a value while jumping.
01:01:21 <bsmntbombdood> yes
01:02:12 <bsmntbombdood> & is like (call/cc (lambda (x) (set! <value of current cell> x) (set! current-cell 0)))
01:02:25 <Tritonio> ok i think I got it now. I've never heard of continuations...
01:02:36 <bsmntbombdood> % is like (<value of current cell> <value of next cell>)
01:02:51 <bsmntbombdood> (sort of)
01:03:39 <oerjan> Tritonio: check out the Io language (not the object-oriented one)
01:04:08 <Tritonio> i thought there was a brainfuck implementation with support for "subroutines"
01:04:25 <oerjan> it's a language where nearly everything is a continuation, instead of functions.
01:04:55 <oerjan> so you cannot return from a function/continuation, you have to call another continuation from it instead
01:04:56 <bsmntbombdood> Tritonio: this brainfuck makes for easy functions
01:04:57 <Tritonio> oerjan, not the OO one? I found the OO.
01:06:26 <oerjan> documentation may be a bit hard to find
01:07:21 <oerjan> http://www.guldheden.com/~sandin/amalthea.html
01:07:54 <bsmntbombdood> defining a function is like: "load desired function number"&[ "function code" [->+<]%]
01:10:27 <oerjan> in case you don't notice the link in there, http://www.nondot.org/sabre/Mirrored/AdvProgLangDesign/ is where the language is described
01:16:10 <oerjan> it's hard to browse in separate files, you want http://www.nondot.org/sabre/Mirrored/AdvProgLangDesign/finkel02.pdf, page 43
01:20:48 <Tritonio> strange language. and there was no implementation before amalthea?
01:21:06 <oerjan> there probably was but it was lost?
01:22:48 <Tritonio> and what about the OO io?
01:23:35 <oerjan> i don't know it
01:24:37 <oerjan> btw the original paper exists but requires a subscription: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=70931.70934
01:24:59 <Tritonio> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28programming_language%29
01:25:09 <Tritonio> the original paper for what?
01:25:22 <oerjan> for Raph Levien's continuation language Io
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01:30:27 <Tritonio> Lua is wonderful. I wonder if python is better.
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02:21:09 <puzzlet> i have a question
02:21:22 <bsmntbombdood> don't we all
02:21:42 <puzzlet> can you find a counter-example for perl's grammar is not context-free?
02:22:17 <bsmntbombdood> #perl ?
02:22:43 <ihope> One that shows that it is not context-free?
02:23:28 <puzzlet> yes
02:28:13 <oerjan> Clean
02:28:23 <oerjan> (wrong channel)
02:29:04 <Sukoshi`> (He's trying to get suckers to think that Clean isn't an esoteric language in some other channel.)
02:29:08 <bsmntbombdood> what machine accepts context-free grammars?
02:29:37 <oerjan> non-deterministic pushdown automata
02:32:37 <bsmntbombdood> is there a simple way of compiling to them like there is for regular grammars?
02:33:33 <ihope> You mean like there are regular expressions?
02:34:55 <bsmntbombdood> what?
02:35:02 <oerjan> i'd say compiling to one is fairly trivial but not practical - these are non-deterministic machines
02:35:12 <oerjan> *practical to use
02:35:45 <oerjan> so they turn into exponential-time search if you use them naively
02:35:53 <bsmntbombdood> nondeterministic finite state machines are easy to interpret
02:36:20 <bsmntbombdood> but exponential
02:36:54 <ihope> Now, anybody want some absurdity? http://pya.cc/pyaimg/pimg.php?imgid=29546
02:37:15 <oerjan> there are more efficient ways to parse CTF grammars, that are O(n^3) in the worst case
02:38:08 <oerjan> some methods like the Earley parser automatically gives O(n) or O(n^2) if your grammar happens to be LR(k) or unambiguous
02:38:37 <bsmntbombdood> n = ?
02:39:06 <oerjan> length of text
03:06:38 <bsmntbombdood> methinks i'll try to implement an earley parser
03:06:44 <bsmntbombdood> ...once i understand it
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04:22:31 <bsmntbombdood> i sort of understand making an earley parser that just says accept/not accept, but how can you make a parse tree?
04:27:41 <oerjan> i suppose at each point where you are finishing a token, you collect the sub-tokens it consists of
04:28:47 <oerjan> otoh if the grammar is ambiguous you get a list of possible sub-tokens (everything with positions)
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04:58:56 <pikhq> Hmm. An esoteric emacsite.
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05:13:37 <oerjan> !rules
05:13:39 <EgoBot> Huh?
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05:25:22 <Cusoon959> Please say "Hello, World!"
05:26:17 * oerjan checks the topic for whether IRP is currently allowed.
05:26:34 <oerjan> Hello, World!
05:26:48 <pikhq> INTERPRETER ERROR: Don't wanna.
05:29:24 <Cusoon959> thank you, oerjan
05:29:35 <Cusoon959> oerjan: please say "You are welcome"
05:30:37 <oerjan> LOCKING ERROR: Duplicate command.
05:30:45 <oerjan> i was already considering it.
05:30:53 <pikhq> Please say this sentence.
05:31:06 <oerjan> "this sentence"
05:31:48 <pikhq> "Please say what precedes this sentence, in quote marks, followed by the contents of this sentence." Please say what precedes this sentence, in quote marks, followed by the contents of this sentence.
05:32:53 <oerjan> ""what precedes this sentence"" "the contents of this sentence"
05:34:41 <pikhq> Quine "quine".
05:36:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted.").
05:36:41 <oerjan> ERROR: quine is not a "quine"
05:37:29 <Cusoon959> please transfer $500 from your account into min
05:37:30 <Cusoon959> e
05:38:10 <oerjan> PURSING ERROR
05:38:55 <pikhq> ERROR: Your parser sucks.
05:39:13 <pikhq> Stupid Norwegians named Oerjan.
05:39:26 <pikhq> You're all. . . Norwegian.
05:40:52 <oerjan> my parsing is fine.
05:41:40 <pikhq> Disagree must I parser thinks, sucks I.
05:43:03 <Cusoon959> play The Faint - Agenda Suicide
06:09:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
06:20:07 <puzzlet> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TuppersSelf-ReferentialFormula.html
06:20:12 <puzzlet> neet quine
06:21:42 <bsmntbombdood> not a quine
06:21:46 <Cusoon959> arkey.mx@gmail.com
06:21:50 <Cusoon959> spam him
06:21:52 <Cusoon959> please
06:21:58 <Cusoon959> woops, wrong chan
06:22:01 <Cusoon959> sorry :s
06:24:44 <puzzlet> quasiquine?
06:25:43 <Cusoon959> np: The Faint - Take Me To The Hospital
06:25:45 <Cusoon959> Yay
06:25:47 <Cusoon959> it works
06:26:31 <bsmntbombdood> that's like calling (write (read-file "foo")), with "(write (read-file "foo"))" in "foo" a quine
06:27:30 <Cusoon959> :s
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10:24:42 <Tritonio> good morning...
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12:19:36 <sp3tt> morning
12:20:35 <Tritonio> has anyone made a befunge interpreter in brainfuck?
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12:27:59 <oklokok> pretty sure not
12:31:21 <sp3tt> ouch
12:31:49 <oklokok> yeah, that departure was a slap in the face
12:33:40 <sp3tt> the idea too
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13:26:34 <RodgerTheGreat> &
13:34:49 <oklokok> o
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20:59:50 <bsmntbombdood> :D
21:00:15 <bsmntbombdood> one storm sewer map in possession
21:15:43 <RodgerTheGreat> cool
21:15:47 <RodgerTheGreat> how did that happen?
21:16:16 <bsmntbombdood> saying the right things to the right people
21:16:42 <RodgerTheGreat> what are you going to do now?
21:16:57 <bsmntbombdood> find the bigger tunnels, explore them
21:17:05 <RodgerTheGreat> sweet
21:17:09 <RodgerTheGreat> urbex ftw
21:17:18 <RodgerTheGreat> bring back pictures
21:17:26 <Sukoshi`> ``Can I have a storm sewer map?'' ``Sure'' ``Yay''
21:17:49 <bsmntbombdood> Sukoshi`: wrong
21:18:02 <Sukoshi`> Yeah. You probably didn't say yay :P
21:18:05 <RodgerTheGreat> bonus points for 3d panoramic pictures or taking them in a sequence so that we can assemble them into our own myst-esque game
21:18:13 <RodgerTheGreat> haha
21:18:14 <bsmntbombdood> ``Can I have a storm sewer map?'' ``Fuck you, you're just a kid''
21:18:28 <RodgerTheGreat> " I'll give you money! "
21:18:32 <RodgerTheGreat> " Sure"
21:18:35 <RodgerTheGreat> "yay"
21:19:14 <bsmntbombdood> i had to pay $5
21:19:31 <Sukoshi`> Isn't it public information though?
21:19:45 <bsmntbombdood> yes
21:19:52 <Sukoshi`> Well, I would have sued.
21:19:57 <Sukoshi`> Or at least, threatened to sue.
21:20:33 <bsmntbombdood> ...criminal charges have more weight than civil
21:20:40 <Sukoshi`> So?
21:21:09 <bsmntbombdood> so why sue?
21:21:16 <Sukoshi`> To deny a person the right to inform themselves about their public facilities that they pay for through their money is a hefty crime indeed.
21:21:34 <bsmntbombdood> punishable by 90 days in prison (in colorado)
21:21:44 <Sukoshi`> There you go. Justice.
21:21:48 <Sukoshi`> And, the map, probably.
21:22:01 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
21:22:05 <Sukoshi`> More likely than not though, he'd just give you the map and settle it out of court.
21:22:10 <Sukoshi`> Which is good too.
21:22:15 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
21:22:20 <bsmntbombdood> which is what happened
21:22:28 <Sukoshi`> But paying $5 is :|
21:22:51 <bsmntbombdood> they are allowed to charge for the price of the materials
21:23:04 <oklokok> it's fun paying for no reason.
21:23:06 <Sukoshi`> It costs $5 to print on a piece of cheap paper and the ink involved?
21:23:20 <Sukoshi`> At most I can see it costing $2.
21:23:22 <oklokok> i'd gladly pay $5 for something free
21:23:29 <bsmntbombdood> it's a huge peice of paper with lots of color ink
21:23:35 <bsmntbombdood> $5 is reasonable
21:23:46 <Sukoshi`> Hm. Maybe then.
21:24:01 <bsmntbombdood> it's a map, not an 8.5 * 11 printout
21:24:02 <oklokok> maps are expensive, and you can't just copy them just like that
21:24:14 <oklokok> in finland that is... i know nothing about america of course
21:24:56 <RodgerTheGreat> oklokok: don't you know? Every american home is equipped with an 8 foot drum printer
21:25:01 <RodgerTheGreat> and the trees grow cotton candy
21:25:20 <Sukoshi`> oklokok: If the maps are stored in an image though, you can copy them just like that.
21:25:21 <oklokok> heh
21:25:27 <oklokok> i meant, they can't legally be copied
21:25:31 <Sukoshi`> The awesome power of modern technology, huh? :P
21:25:31 <oklokok> in finland
21:25:36 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
21:25:42 <Sukoshi`> The government doesen't have its own map copies?
21:25:55 <oklokok> well i guess if they are public property, you can just copy them just like that.
21:26:00 <oklokok> so forget what i said.
21:26:00 <RodgerTheGreat> maybe the idea is that only the government can copy them
21:26:17 <RodgerTheGreat> which could be good, simply for purposes of keeping rough track of who has the information
21:26:55 <oklokok> anyway, someone's gotta pay the map drawer ppl, the fact the map is public doesn't mean a commoner buying it doesn't have to pay his share to them.
21:27:13 <bsmntbombdood> oh no, they have my name! :P
21:27:48 <bsmntbombdood> oklokok: the idea is that the map drawer is payed with taxes
21:28:23 <RodgerTheGreat> another thing is, charging even a small fee could help reduce the number of people requesting maps for no reason
21:28:34 <oklokok> well, obviously
21:28:49 <oklokok> but i've been wrong from the beginning.
21:28:52 <RodgerTheGreat> you don't want some yahoo taking a copy of every map in the records department just because he can
21:29:13 <oklokok> that's one cool hobby
21:29:34 <bsmntbombdood> anyway, i think the map will be usefull
21:29:43 <bsmntbombdood> ...and worth $5
21:29:47 <RodgerTheGreat> interesting, at the very least
21:30:10 <RodgerTheGreat> shit, I'd pay $5 to use something like that as a wall poster
21:35:53 <bsmntbombdood> i need more wall space
21:39:34 <bsmntbombdood> a whole wall is taken up by my whiteboard
21:39:47 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: what about the roof?
21:40:06 <bsmntbombdood> ooooh
21:41:10 <bsmntbombdood> you can't really look at a map on the ceiling though
21:41:29 <oerjan> might be awkward
21:42:01 <oklokok> you can look at it while you sleep
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