2007-08-01: 00:08:02 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:08:52 bbl folks 00:11:58 SimonRC: technically speaking you still need to know what gules is 00:12:28 SimonRC: for example, imagine if there were thousands of files there 00:13:15 yell, yeah.... 00:13:16 is 00:13:18 ish 00:17:09 um 00:17:25 gate 3 lock 2 is NOT the basil puzzle, is it? 00:17:47 oh, it is 00:18:47 why do you ask? 00:19:02 i assumed there would be more puzzles 00:19:33 what is special about the basil puzzle? 00:19:55 it's the last one 00:19:58 ok 00:20:00 bah 00:20:13 first question, has *anyone* here managed it? 00:20:24 pikhq is apparently the only person ever. 00:20:38 next question, why a bloomin TIFF? 00:23:39 i suppose i don't know. 00:24:54 and why so huge? 00:25:24 well, TIFF images tend to be huge :) 00:31:01 have you read the wikipedia article on them? 00:31:28 i'm nowhere near solving the puzzle, i'm afraid. 00:31:43 but as an amateur photographer, i can tell you tiff images tend to be huge :) 00:31:44 I don't know if I am 00:32:29 there is so *much* stuff that you can do with the TIFF format 00:32:37 but maybe that isn;t significant at all... 00:42:04 I'm back 00:42:04 well, the image is compressed, internally, so I doubt there is any steganography 00:42:07 well, the image is compressed, internally, so I doubt there is any steganography 00:42:10 oops, 00:42:33 no discussion in here please 00:42:37 ok 00:44:42 (for what it's worth, JPEG watermarking is very common despite JPEG being compressed) 00:45:14 (again, speaking as an amateur photographer rather than some kind of programmer) 00:46:04 hmf 00:46:48 it's simple 00:46:57 you just watermark after compression, not before 00:47:10 ok 00:53:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:58:45 Anyone else Basiling? 00:59:00 yup 00:59:08 pikhq: come to mock us? ;-) 00:59:08 Buahahaha! 00:59:21 Not really. It actually is maniacal. 00:59:38 so it is not so simple that I will I feel like an idiot for not trying some certan thing? 00:59:54 No, once you're done, that's *exactly* how you'll feel. :p 01:02:02 bah 01:02:48 how long did you spend having no clue, comparedt to the amount of time spent working in the right direction? 01:08:48 or would that be too much of a clue? 01:09:17 pikhq: gah! 01:09:55 SimonRC: I spent all of it clueless until I discovered the answer. 01:10:00 ahh 01:10:01 hmm 01:10:06 that is a big hint then 01:10:11 maybe 01:10:37 No, because you still have to find it. 01:11:07 it it tells me not to look at some things 01:16:18 * SimonRC wonders if the nearly-identical image is of any significance at all 01:16:23 It was mentionned earlier 01:16:49 Maybe. 01:16:54 not helpful 01:17:02 Si. 01:18:29 bah 01:18:54 Problem is, I can't think of much to do with it other than treat it as an image 01:19:28 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/images/herbs_basil300.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/&h=300&w=300&sz=16&hl=en&start=520&um=1&tbnid=DsOXfgK_b1L3UM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBasil%26start%3D520%26imgsz%3Dsmall%257Cmedium%257Clarge%257Cxlarge%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN 01:19:34 oops, wrong button 01:29:45 i'm beginning to strongly suspect Basil is kinda lame 01:29:54 but of course i won't know for sure until i find the answer. 01:30:00 you haven;t found the answer 01:30:14 pikhq: Actaully, that is the sign of a very difficult puzzle. You spend far more time having no clue than you do having clue. 01:32:29 odd 01:38:16 -!- fax has quit. 01:39:56 is it *aupposed* to be a broken image, BTW? 01:40:07 It doesn;t want to display inline 01:40:27 that's because your browser doesn't properly support TIFF 01:40:34 just load up Safari. :) 01:41:14 my problem with basil 01:43:06 lament: yes? 01:43:08 is that either you need to have/make some kind of tiff-fucking tool, which is lame 01:44:08 or you don't, but then that's an obvious false route and you still end up doing it, which is still lame :) 01:44:09 really? 01:44:22 RodgerTheGreat: so, is the puzzle lame? 01:44:24 :-) 01:44:29 I wouldn't say so 01:44:47 as I've said before, it's one of my crowning achievements 01:44:59 suppose i have no knowledge of the tiff format and no tiff processing libraries 01:45:15 which is surprisingly not far from the truth 01:45:27 That's where I started. 01:46:06 now, if i have to learn the tiff format to proceed, then i give up in advance :) 01:46:34 You might, or you might not. 01:46:47 You can try, or you can try other means. 01:46:55 Your insanity. 01:47:06 lament: I assume you tried the thing that worked with several of the previous ones, and got the (AFAICT) disappointing result 01:47:31 * RodgerTheGreat laughs in a generally sadistic fashion 01:47:43 * pikhq joins Rodger 01:47:44 incedentally, the answer isn't "Fawlty" 01:49:36 well, if the answer has anything to do with the ****** ***** ** *** ****, i'm not interested in continuing :) 01:49:56 those asterisks are not helping me 01:50:08 those asterisks are not helping me to understand your setance 01:51:49 oh come on, only so many sentences fit that pattern :) 01:52:28 just pull a Babbage and gather a collection of dictionaries containing various word lengths 01:52:37 bah 01:53:46 why is it called "gate 3?" 01:53:59 Because that's what Rodger likes calling it. 01:54:47 seemed like a cool naming scheme 01:55:18 ok 01:55:28 adding ?M=69 to the end din;t work :-) 02:02:06 Are you allowed to tell us if it has anything to do with the previous puzzles? 02:02:16 I.e. do you need to have solved them first? 02:03:31 * RodgerTheGreat settles into his chair to watch Rollerball 02:04:22 * pikhq watches brains a'splode 02:04:59 this is such an awesome movie. Very thought provoking. 02:05:52 Potter Harry of Dth Hlws? 02:05:59 Probably doesn't stand for anything like that. 02:06:01 what? 02:06:07 ihope: looked at the puzzles? 02:06:09 ****** ***** ** *** **** 02:06:27 SimonRC: what puzzles? 02:07:03 http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php 02:07:10 only pikhq has got past the basil one 02:07:20 or is it the Basil one? 02:07:22 hmm 02:07:33 the challenges may be referred to collectively as "Rodger's Demon" 02:07:42 SimonRC: that link leads me to a 403. 02:08:00 so quick to jump to conclusions 02:08:41 Oh... 02:08:42 the last one AFAICT is an exercise is explorin a completely-flat problem space 02:14:47 Interesting. 02:15:55 from what pikhq said, there is no clue until you kit on the answer 02:17:20 * SimonRC goes to bed 03:00:08 blargh 03:00:37 (pl_from, pl_namespace, pl_title) 03:11:22 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 04:22:34 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 04:53:20 Rodger's Demon == evily good. 04:56:38 <:) 04:59:59 just wait for the Abyss. It will be unlike any game you've played before, I promise. 05:19:49 I can't wait. 06:38:25 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 06:43:02 good night everyone 06:43:26 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:07:34 -!- cherez has joined. 08:12:42 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 08:36:20 -!- RedDak has joined. 08:51:39 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 08:57:34 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 09:02:27 -!- helios24 has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:02:43 -!- helios24 has joined. 10:02:34 -!- jix has joined. 10:57:59 jix: hi 10:58:14 have you been irritated by Rodger's puzzles yet? 11:02:13 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:02:46 hi 11:02:49 any luck? 11:10:03 oh, on basil? 11:10:12 if so - i've just woken up 11:10:17 ah, ok 11:10:38 have you got any leads? 12:29:41 blah 12:29:44 its barely possible 12:29:45 :p 12:57:55 SimonRC: huh? 13:05:55 jix: I said, "hi" 13:06:05 the next line 13:06:17 jix, he was talking to me about Basil i think 13:06:31 ehird`: no you weren't here 13:06:37 11:56:57 have you been irritated by Rodger's puzzles yet? 13:07:24 http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php 13:07:35 don't bother with them, the last one will wreck your life 13:07:42 I am ignoring it currently 13:07:56 i get a forbidden 13:08:27 jix, yes you do 13:08:40 jix, and yes i was 13:08:41 hi 13:08:41 any luck? 13:09:02 ehird`: you joined just after simonrc said have you irritated by..... 13:09:28 ah 13:09:39 jix, anyway, the forbidden is the first puzzle 13:10:02 ah this is notpron like? 13:12:29 yes 13:12:30 kind of 13:12:40 but less levels, and more binary data scavenging 13:12:46 great binarys! 13:12:59 like i probably need some different OS to run that 13:13:05 please discuss this somewhere else. 13:13:11 I can;t stand it any more 13:14:14 SimonRC, why? 13:17:56 because I am getting nowhere on the last question 13:21:55 My previous stratergy has always been to lose the URL to the puzzles and forget about them 13:22:28 hah 14:22:42 i've got it! 14:22:48 damn it 14:50:36 jix: Which/ 14:50:37 ? 14:50:43 pikhq: the last one 14:51:07 Basil? 14:51:10 yes 14:51:12 -!- ihope__ has joined. 14:51:20 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 15:00:32 he has nicely dispatched one hint, which has saved me from giving up 15:05:20 jix, don't give out too many hints. 15:05:46 IMO, it's much more worth it to let them solve it themselve. 15:05:59 . . . Wait. You spent *two hours* on all of Rodger's Demon? 15:06:53 * pikhq bows before jix 15:07:05 for the first ones (the ones before the animations) ehird was throwing hints on me it would have taken longer without them 15:07:27 Still. . . Even with hints, the gulesfish is hard. 15:07:58 i found gulesfish pretty easy once i got "gules" 15:08:25 I noticed. 15:08:45 I had most of the puzzle solved before I realised where the input needed to go. 15:09:05 pikhq, he's only given out one hint 15:39:17 I would never have gotten the one that has just a 2-character hint without Rodger helping me 15:39:21 I am crap at such things 15:39:49 My puzzle-solving usually starts with a crappy solution then re-works the hell out of it 15:40:19 because my problem-solving is programming 15:40:45 I'm usually fairly good at these sorts of puzzles. 15:43:20 I am dreadful at them 15:43:27 I keep dismissing the right answer 15:44:18 e.g., In Gulesfish my unzipper was waving a massive hint in my face and I ignored it! 15:44:26 Hahah. 15:44:33 Mine ignored said massive hint. 15:44:54 Which actually wasn't the last bit of the puzzle I got. . . 15:45:05 OTOH, my other unzipper often says that same thing when it is not relevent 15:45:06 I had the much-needed input, but not where it was supposed to go. XD 15:45:43 I forgot that [] at the beginning of a BF program is not an ininite loop 15:46:35 LMAO 15:47:21 so, I looked, saw that the first two BF commands would be [ and ], then decided it is not a BF program 15:47:24 *sigh* 15:50:59 i had to tell him that it wasn't 15:51:07 he kept trying to use the elf instead, heh 16:00:12 -!- test_ has joined. 16:00:26 -!- ehird` has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:00:28 -!- test_ has changed nick to ehird`. 16:02:10 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:02:15 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:09:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:25:40 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:25:49 Hi! 17:26:04 It's a exact-1-year-anniversary of my first coming here! 17:26:08 i guess 17:26:08 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.01 17:26:15 it's 07.08.01 today as i know 17:26:19 or am i mistaken? 17:26:22 or 01.08 17:26:57 I want to do a "esoteric programming language" programmable using IMAGES :D 17:27:10 it will use 16-color images 17:27:18 and will be Picts**t 17:27:29 a Brainf**k version using images. 17:27:42 Hmm. 17:27:58 Been done. 17:28:02 :) 17:28:06 oh 17:28:14 many times 17:28:30 Oh wait. I will make an IRC esoteric language, with IRC-like syntax 17:28:35 wtf 17:28:36 and completely other commands 17:28:37 heh 17:28:38 I call it IRP. 17:28:40 like 17:28:50 ... IRP? 17:28:59 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Braincopter 17:29:00 /part 17:29:03 works 17:29:04 ok 17:29:07 Internet Relay Programming 17:29:32 I will also do a Brainf**k interperting bot... i guess it was done though... 17:29:53 This channel actually has two in it usually. 17:30:23 ... :( 17:30:25 any ideas? 17:30:27 Please, print "IRP is stupid." 17:30:29 pikhq, do you want to do something with me? 17:30:37 IRP is stupid. 17:30:40 Like? 17:30:52 and did you do any esoteric languages? 17:30:56 Please, print "Mwahaha" while true is true. 17:30:58 >:D 17:31:00 if not you, then who? 17:31:14 I've done Dimensifuck, PicoCPU, and PEBBLE. 17:31:18 Please, print "I suck" while false is false. 17:31:41 INTERPRETER ERROR: Halting problem solved, don't want to do a program that doesn't halt. 17:31:57 I will do PSc311 language. 17:32:05 PlayStation c311 (cell) 17:32:26 it's goal is to make as much fun from a PS3 while being an esoteric language 17:32:32 source ^stdcons.bfm;@ temp1;@ temp2;stringout "Hello, world!\n" : temp1 temp2 17:33:01 Please, print "I love ehird`." 17:33:19 >-[<->+++++++]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>----[<+++>----]<.------------.>--[<->---]<+.--------.+++.------.--------.>----[<+++>----]<.>------[<---->+]<+. is the result of that PEBBLE code. 17:33:21 ... 17:34:00 Please, if true is true print "I love #esoteric." else die 17:34:28 link to PicoCPU, Dimensif**k and PEBBLE specs 17:34:29 Interpreter does not wish to do an infinite program. 17:34:44 Okay. 17:34:55 Dunno where PicoCPU is hidden; http://esolangs.org/wiki/Dimensifuck, and http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php 17:35:08 Please, if asiekiekra is on print "I love ehird`" 17:35:29 Please, if asiekierka OR Haikz is on print "I love ehird`" 17:35:40 ERROR: NO, IRP ALLOWED IN TOPIC ERROR 17:35:44 Ne, mi malsxatas gxin. 17:35:52 Rark ark 17:36:03 Oh! 17:36:09 One more to the discussion 17:36:12 ERROR: KILLING RAMPAGE STARTED, KILLING ALL IRP USERS 17:36:15 I have magic powers? 17:36:22 :D:D:D:D 17:36:24 Please, everyone private message asiekierka with "WHEEEEEE" 17:36:31 INTERPRETER WRITTEN PROGRAM TRANSMISSION FINISHED. 17:36:34 I have a magical constant 17:36:44 WARNING: PERSON YOU LOVE IS ABOUT TO DIE. [OK] [CANCEL] [WHO CARES] 17:36:51 Please execute "0+^+v". 17:36:53 [NO THEY AREN'T] 17:36:58 Please, send the warning to "everyone" 17:37:07 C:\win 17:37:13 YES THEY ARE says Win.com 17:38:08 Please, let x be "Please, let x be %c%s%c and evaluate (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37)" and evaluate (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37) 17:38:24 hmmmm... better IRP quineL 17:38:28 Please, let x be "Please, let x be %c%s%c and evaluate (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37)" and say (x sprintf'd with 37, x, 37) 17:38:42 Please, let x be "Please, read source file "Please, let source file be #esoteric"" 17:38:51 to make it a loop 17:38:57 a loop is easy 17:39:06 Please, say this exact line. 17:39:12 Please, send command "Please, let x be "Please, read source file "Please, let source file be #esoteric""" to "Please, list anybody on #esoteric" 17:39:13 Please, all IRP interpreters, shut down. 17:39:17 a pool is hard 17:39:22 i am not an interperter. 17:39:29 asiekierka, everybody is an interpreter 17:39:35 i'm a sentient AI + an interperter, ie. a human 17:39:39 okay 17:39:43 shutting down.... 17:39:57 Dankon. 17:40:02 Please, reboot instead. 17:40:06 Rebooting :D 17:40:29 Please, say "No." everytime somebody confirms something. 17:40:59 Please, wreck havok. 17:41:03 I'm confused. 17:41:11 Please, give me a link to "Please, give me a link to "Please, give me a link to name "Please, "What is IRP?"""" 17:41:22 No. 17:41:31 No. 17:41:59 Please. 17:42:15 bacon 17:42:35 ERROR: No "please" at start of line "bacon" 17:42:56 Please, bacon. 17:43:15 Of course! 17:43:19 bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon ba 17:43:20 con bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon baco 17:43:20 n bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon 17:43:23 er. 17:43:25 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl 17:43:25 that was a bit too long 17:43:28 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl 17:43:31 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl 17:43:31 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl 17:43:31 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl 17:43:45 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERRO 17:43:48 ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. ERROR: No bacon. Download bacon yourself from www.yaai.prv.pl. 17:43:53 I don't like bacon. 17:43:56 ERROR: bacon was in response to Please, bacon. and had no please so interpreting as command is ERROR, asiekierka interpreter is BUGGY 17:43:57 Too many errors. Cannot continue. 17:44:09 ... It's 0.1 Beta 1 17:44:15 I forgot to upgrade 17:44:20 wait a minute 17:44:20 i will upgrade 17:44:26 ___...---''' 17:44:33 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 17:44:59 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:45:08 Hi! 17:45:24 I made IRP#ascorp 17:45:28 which is exact the same as this 17:45:36 except you replace "Please," with "Shut up and" 17:45:41 Shut up and shut up 17:46:03 Type a command_ 17:46:13 Waiting... 17:46:43 WARNING: IRP#ascorp is not compatible with IRP#esoteric. To use IRP#ascorp join #ascorp. 17:47:14 rm -rf asiekierka 17:47:29 Please rm -rf anybody that tries to rm -rf me. 17:47:38 shut up 17:47:39 :P 17:47:57 Waiting for a command_ 17:48:16 Please type /clear 17:48:30 Please also press enter when you type /clear 17:48:37 Please then type /part and press enter. 17:49:36 ERROR: UPDATE FOUND. UPDATE DOSENT ALLOW TO TYPE /PART. SORRY FOR ANY PROBLEMS. 17:49:43 D'oh. I need to upgrade AGAIN. 17:49:45 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 17:49:45 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:49:58 Please remember that i just upgraded. 17:50:47 Please join #ascorp. 17:51:42 Please join #ascorp and do not type quotation marks for 5 minutes. 17:52:14 Please invent a time machine.just kidding lol 17:52:35 Shutting down my interperter... 17:52:46 Hi. Is anybody on? 17:53:09 I don't remember anything except i turned on IRP01.exe some minutes ago... 17:53:39 ... 17:53:51 Okay... finally remembering the rest. 17:53:57 Who wants to IRP with me? 17:54:01 on #ascorp or here? 17:54:29 or tommorow? 17:54:32 if not now? 17:55:21 nobody's listening 17:55:28 Okay. 17:55:30 Okay. 17:55:58 Please say "wow" 17:56:03 FIX: Please say "wow" 17:56:19 NO, IRP ALLOWED. 17:56:35 No, irp allowed. So IRP IS allowed :DDD 17:56:42 because of the "," 17:56:48 So? 17:57:13 Please remember that IRP is allowed. 17:57:33 Sed IRP en Angla lingvo malbonas. 17:57:48 Please translate, pikhq. 17:57:57 But IRP in English is bad. 17:57:59 Please wait for a fix of the latest command. 17:58:06 Please translate "Sed IRP en Angla lingvo malbonas", pikhq. 17:58:14 Or please use polish. 17:58:28 Please remember that I only know Polish and English, 17:58:31 Ne. Mi sxatas lan internacian lingvon! 17:58:50 and please translate the stuff or i'll seriously quit! 17:59:12 oh good 17:59:16 No. I like the international language. 18:00:28 Esperanto? 18:00:34 Jes. 18:01:37 Ne esperanto, ne esperanto! 18:01:46 Jak juz to polski albo english 18:01:58 -!- ihope has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com -- NO: IRP ALLOWED. 18:02:18 IRP is still allowed! cool! / Dalej mozna uzywac IRP! Super! 18:02:49 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | IRP MEANS YOUR FIERY DEATH. 18:03:00 Ohh... 18:03:14 asiekierka: Ne. Esperanto bonas. 18:03:17 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | NO IRP RULE WAS JUST BALEETED!. 18:03:35 -!- ihope has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. IRP. 18:03:39 STOP IT 18:03:41 cool 18:03:45 we can use IRP! 18:03:50 Please do not ban IRP. 18:03:54 Also, baleeting is a Homestar-ism, not actual deletion. 18:03:58 Perhaps I should have said "IRP BEING ALLOWED". 18:04:27 Then again, the topic currently contains no verbs. 18:04:28 Please remember you said "1. IRP.", not "1. NO IRP", so it seems we MUST use IRP. 18:04:45 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | STOP THE GODDAMN IRP. 18:04:57 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. shut up. 2. talk only in IRP.. 18:05:19 RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 18:05:45 Okay. I will break rule #1 if you please so much. 18:05:46 STOP IT, DAMN IT 18:05:54 asiekierka, but then you break the break at least one rule rule 18:05:56 but that's a paradox 18:06:01 since by breaking it you break it by breaking it 18:06:03 so you don't break it 18:06:04 It makes a paradox, yes. 18:06:14 You can't be following the rules, because that'd be breaking rule 1, so you must break a rule, so you must follow rule 1, so you must break rule 2. 18:06:15 So... Rule #1 can't exist :D 18:06:28 No, you just follow rule 1 but not rule 2. 18:07:00 RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 18:07:04 I select #3. 18:07:28 But i can't select #3 because if i select it, i don't shut up so i must shut up. 18:07:37 Paradox. 18:07:47 I never said you had to follow all the rules. 18:08:02 Okay 18:08:15 RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 18:08:24 If i break rule #2, I break rule #4... it is allowed. 18:08:27 $($#@()*$&#)(&$#_)&*#$*($_$#())_&) 18:08:39 so i must follow #3 :( 18:08:42 Sure, you can break both 2 and 4. 18:08:53 You can break all of them except 1, if you want to. 18:08:56 wait 18:09:03 But you must follow 1. 18:09:04 Don't do Perl. 18:09:15 RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 5. You must follow rule #1 and any other rule. 18:09:22 wait 18:09:25 RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 5. You must follow rule #1, this and any other rule. 18:09:30 "Any other rule" meaning "some other rule"? 18:09:31 So i must follow #3... 18:09:39 any other rule :D 18:09:43 yes 18:09:46 one of left rules 18:09:54 I must select between 2 and 4 18:09:56 One of the remaining rules... 18:09:59 If i select 3 18:10:00 STOP IT 18:10:01 SERIOUSLY 18:10:03 then 2 and 4 is left. 18:10:08 And any other rule. 18:10:12 not 2 18:10:15 ehird`: what are we supposed to be stopping now? 18:10:15 but 1 only. 18:10:20 So i select 2 which in turn selects 4 18:10:26 So I must follow #1, #3 and #5. 18:10:30 So i'll shut up now. 18:10:34 And you will too. 18:10:38 < SILENCE > 18:11:41 Please follow the new RULES: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. IRP must be used at some time. 3. Shut up. 4. Don't break rule #2. 5. You must follow rule #1, this and any other rule. 6. Don't break rule #3. 7. Always use IRP. 18:11:56 18:12:02 over. 18:12:08 Now think how to not use IRP :DDD 18:13:39 i am going to break rule 4 18:13:54 and 2 (if it isn't to be used some time, it isn't used all time) 18:14:06 tada 18:14:28 But 18:14:41 you have #6 and #7 and #3 left. 18:14:53 And you can have only #1, #5, and any other left. 18:14:58 #6 #7 #3 <> 1 rule. 18:15:16 If you break #7, you have #6 and #3 left. 18:15:20 So it's not 7. 18:15:25 If you break #3, you break #6 too 18:15:32 so you have only 1 rule left. Rule #7 18:16:25 #2 and #4 are broke. But #7 isn't. You pleased for an exception in your words so you have it. 18:18:11 breaking rule 2 voids #7 18:18:24 and the other rules don't forbid breaking 2 18:18:35 but you must have one left 18:18:35 so: 18:18:39 and follow it. 18:18:40 i can break one or more rule 18:18:42 :D 18:18:44 i break 4, allowing me to break 2 18:18:46 So you must follow #1, #5 and #7 18:18:47 2 voids 7 18:18:56 Hey! 18:18:59 i am following 1, 5 and 6 18:19:02 ohh i can't take it anymore 18:19:14 so, by voiding 4 and 2 i do not have to involve myself in any irp 18:19:38 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. Follow rule #2. 2. Follow rule #3 and #5. 3. Break #4. 4. Don't use IRP. 5. Use IRP.. 18:19:43 Now? 18:20:06 I'll show you 18:20:31 #1 -> #2 -> (#3 -> #4 break) (#5) 18:20:47 Please remember these rules. 18:22:41 Ok, please tell me how to break rule #5. If there is a way... i doubt there is one. 18:24:00 Please say "Your rules rock. We must use IRP. Remember this." 18:25:40 Well, i said "Use IRP." But i didn't say "Always." So we can use it when we want. But we must use IRP. Not always though. 18:26:16 that's nice 18:27:37 But please use IRP. 18:28:12 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | UNRELATED WEBSITE: http://purple.com | RULES: 1. Follow rule #2. 2. Follow rule #3 and #5. 3. Break #4 and follow #6. 4. Don't use IRP. 5. Use IRP. 6. Always follow #5. Always. Not just sometimes.. 18:28:59 JUST STOP IT 18:29:55 ... Just use IRP. 18:29:58 then i'll stop. 18:30:10 Please use IRP, then i'll stop as you please. 18:30:14 Oh wait, you don't please. 18:30:20 So please please me. 18:30:43 Please stop. 18:30:46 there 18:31:25 O.K.. Aber Sie sagten es nicht in deutschem :D. Sagen Sie es bitte auf Deutsch. 18:34:07 So? Sprechen Sie bitte auf Deutsch und geben Sie mir deutsche IRP Befehle. 18:34:23 HA! 18:35:02 Lo Lol LOLOLOL LOLOLOL. 18:35:44 D C DEC FFE 18:35:48 wait 18:35:50 Lo Lol LOLOLOL LOLOLOL. 18:36:26 D C D E C F F E 18:38:56 hey 18:39:12 bye 18:39:14 -!- asiekierka has quit. 18:49:28 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 18:51:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:13:20 * pikhq has a demented idea for Rodger's Demon 19:14:15 what 19:14:32 I'm not telling, it might be used. :p 19:14:57 :P 19:15:13 Hmm. Maybe I should experiment with doing my own puzzle. 19:17:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:26:14 -!- asiekierka has joined. 19:26:18 Hi :DDD 19:26:27 oh no 19:26:30 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. No rules.. 19:26:38 So we can do anything 19:26:44 And no not IRP time. 19:27:06 I am waiting for AI to be better so i can make a IRP interperter... 19:27:42 Iiii Errr Peee 19:28:10 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. No rules. 2. You must break at least one rule.. 19:28:12 :D 19:28:22 You know that i just made a paradox? 19:28:24 i guess 19:28:30 If you break #2, you know 19:28:41 if you break #1... 19:28:43 i don't know 19:29:53 Since there's no rules, rule 2 doesn't count. 19:30:14 But if you break #1, rule #1 dosen't count, but rule 2 also breaks 19:31:44 Does "no rules" mean "rules are prohibited"? 19:31:59 ihope: i would assume it means "rules can be disregarded" 19:32:08 If you break rule #1, you are fulfilling rule #2, and therefore following the rules. It's trivial, but it's not a paradox. 19:32:47 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Break this rule. 19:33:04 GregorR: if you fulfill rule #1, then you disregard both rules and there's still no paradox. 19:33:11 Well, heck. 19:33:15 1. Break this rule. 19:33:18 lament: True. So really, there's no paradox at all :P 19:33:31 ihope: NO! 19:34:06 Prove the following statement: This statement is true. 19:34:30 GregorR, that statement states it is true, and there is nothing else it specifies, therefore it is true. 19:34:42 really, it's just like saying nothing 19:34:44 First, we assume that statement is provable. 19:34:53 GregorR is the worst mathematician in here. 19:35:04 ihope: Ouch :P 19:35:09 Proof: he can't prove "GregorR cannot prove this sentence true." Everybody else can. 19:35:18 If it is true, then it must be true. 19:35:25 Heh 19:35:28 ihope, no, you're the worst - you can't prove "ihope cannot prove this sentence true." 19:35:33 pikhq: But if it is false, then it must be false. 19:35:34 Ooh, darn. 19:35:49 pikhq: So using that method doesn't work :) 19:35:54 GregorR: There is no indication that it is false. 19:35:55 I can't prove it true. 19:36:08 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. Don't follow this rule. 2. Don't follow this rule. 3. Follow all rules.. 19:36:10 pikhq: there's no indication that it's true, either. 19:36:11 What NOW? 19:36:20 "'This sentence is true.' is false." is consistent. 19:36:22 We cannot prove it false. However, if we start from the assumption that "this statement is true", then it is true. 19:36:32 Is true. Is false. Is consistent. 19:36:40 What about mine? 19:36:44 My is true and false? 19:36:49 pikhq: You can't start from the assumption that it's true without also starting from the assumption that it's false for comparison. 19:36:52 asiekierka: paradox. 19:36:52 or is false and true? 19:36:54 :D 19:36:56 i know 19:37:01 Neither true nor false! 19:37:04 GregorR, the empty statement is true, as it tells nothing that is wrong 19:37:23 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. Don't follow this rule. 2. Don't follow this rule. 3. Follow all rules. 4. Ignore all rules before this one. 5. Ignore rule #4. 6. Ignore rule #7. 7. Ignore rule #6 and #5.. 19:37:27 What NOW!?!?!?!? 19:37:27 "This sentence is true." is a redundant empty statement - the empty statement is true, and this has nothing but the assertation that it is true, therefore since it asserts nothing that can be false, it is true. 19:37:30 huh???? 19:37:51 Paradox, Double Paradox or TRIPLE paradox? 19:38:10 ehird`: Yes, we can see that it's trivially true. We can also see that it's trivially false. 19:38:18 GregorR: If we start from the assumption that it is false, then we have an unfounded assumption. 19:38:22 6:p 19:38:28 GregorR, tell me how it is false 19:38:29 X => X. True or false: X is true. 19:38:44 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | WHERE ARE THE RULES? 1. Follow rule #2. 2. Break rule #1.. 19:38:48 ehird`: Assume that the statement is false. The statement states that it is true, which is false. QED. 19:38:50 Dudes and dudettes, it cannot be proven either way. 19:38:50 What is it now? 19:39:00 asiekierka: inconsistent. 19:39:02 ihope: Exactly :P 19:39:17 inconsistent? I'm not so good at english. I'm 10 1/2 and from poland. 19:39:18 ihope: so who's the worst mathematician now? 19:39:26 GregorR, Now, back up that assumption. I can back up assuming it is true - the empty statement "" is true, and it is an extension of the empty statement which comments on itself 19:39:27 asiekierka: That much shows. 19:39:56 asiekierka: mathematical term. A theory is inconsistent if it implies a falsehood. 19:39:58 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq.. 19:40:09 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq.. 19:40:13 (Which, in turn, means that it implies everything.) 19:40:25 -!- cherez has joined. 19:40:27 Break rule 6: Follow 2 through 5 inclusive. 19:40:29 ehird`: You don't back up assumptions used doing proofs. You work under each assumption and see if it leads to a sound solution. 19:40:45 Select one rule, pikhq? 19:40:47 2, 3, 4 or 5? 19:40:51 Rule 6 is one rule. 19:40:51 which one you break? 19:40:56 ehird`: If the solution is sound, the assumption is proved. 19:41:00 It just states that one follows 2 through 5. 19:41:02 Yeah, the rule that says rules must be followed... 19:41:44 asiekierka: Prove 1+1=2. 19:41:57 (trivial proof, BTW) 19:42:01 2 is defined as 1 more than 1. QED 19:42:10 I cannot. 1 idiot + 1 idiot = double idiot. 19:42:16 pikhq, S(1) = 2, x+1 = S(x) 19:42:24 1+1 = 2 19:43:45 We assume that e*e=e^2, that ln(x*y) = ln(x)+ln(y). 19:43:48 e*e=e^2 19:43:56 ln(e*e)=ln(e^2) 19:44:02 1 + 1 = 2 19:44:04 QED 19:44:12 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. You can break this one only. 7. You cannot add new rules in.. 19:44:40 Break rule 6. 19:44:55 I think that's your only option. 19:45:10 Therefore, one may break any number of rules. 19:45:19 ... Nope 19:45:26 #1 says. He must select one only. 19:45:37 so 2-5 are left 19:45:42 so i'll ignore you from now on :DDD 19:46:07 asiekierka: However, you can break any rule but #6. 19:46:12 nope 19:46:14 this completely incorrect logic is intriguing to me. 19:46:17 you can break any rule but #7 19:46:25 so 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 is left 19:46:26 Thus estabilishing a paradox in your rule set. 19:46:30 and 6 is just a dummy. 19:46:35 so break 6 19:46:39 huh? 19:46:45 I say that you can break #6, so now you can't break #6. 19:46:58 Since it's a paradox, your ruleset is impossible to fully obey. 19:47:00 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in.. 19:47:04 What now? 19:47:28 May WE ignore you? 19:47:33 Break #1. 19:47:42 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 19:47:45 and from 2-6 only 19:47:54 Er, if you break 6, all that means is that you may be able to break rules other than 6. 19:47:56 Pikhq opts to not break any rule, thereby breaking #1. 19:48:11 If you break any other, you're breaking rule 6.. 19:48:16 s/.././ 19:48:25 Thereby breaking two rules, which is against rule #1. 19:48:26 But there's a new ruleset now! 19:48:43 6 is DUMMY RULE now 19:48:46 why is this stupid conversation in existance? 19:48:47 for fun 19:48:50 oh 19:48:52 break #6 19:48:54 you can break 2-6 19:48:58 therefore, 19:48:59 So let's ignore pikhq! 19:49:00 you can break 6 19:49:02 yes 19:49:03 breaking the DUMMY RULE 19:49:05 which means nothing 19:49:14 I select no rules. 19:49:15 so he does not need to create a paradox 19:49:20 but that IS a rule. 19:49:22 but a dummy 19:49:24 it does nothing 19:49:33 So, if you ignore 6, you have 2-5 and 7 left 19:49:37 Rule #1 is broken, ergo I can choose to break rule #7. :p 19:49:38 2-5 state to ignore pikhq 19:49:42 nope 19:49:47 ikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 19:49:50 pikhq* 19:50:01 so not 7. 19:50:09 nor 1 19:50:13 Since I must select one, by not selecting one, the ruleset is broken. 19:50:17 yes 19:50:20 and you fail in LIFE 19:50:25 wait 19:50:40 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in. 8. If you break r. 19:50:45 wait 19:51:02 Rule #1. You must be at least this smart to be in the channel. 19:51:12 ,[.,] 19:51:15 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. Ignore pikhq. 4. Ignore pikhq. 5. Ignore pikhq. 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE.. 19:51:39 asiekierka: What does ,[.,] do? 19:51:57 Wait a second... 19:52:10 I didn't use Brainfuck 19:52:20 any time 19:52:23 That's exactly how smart you must be to be in this channel. 19:52:26 :D 19:52:27 okay 19:52:50 Now, tell me how this works: http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck.tar.bz2 19:53:24 It's even high-level, for your sanity! 19:53:35 No logic. It's 404. 19:53:56 Oh. http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck-1.1.tar.bz2 19:53:59 Forgot the version. 19:54:39 i think, the intelligence level required for this channel 19:54:41 is getting on to gulesfish. 19:54:52 asiekierka, http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php get to gulesfish. 19:54:53 I'll second that. 19:55:27 WTF is it 19:55:29 that's hard for somebody who "didn't use brainfuck any time" 19:55:35 lament, no 19:55:39 before gulesfish there is no BF-related puzzles 19:55:41 asiekierka, A puzzle site. 19:55:42 i mean, pf**k 19:55:53 oh, a censor 19:55:55 asiekierka, fuck fuck fuck 19:56:09 and link dosen't work 19:56:15 it's 40three'd 19:56:23 Or is it? 19:56:32 :D 19:57:20 ,[,.,] 19:57:26 Do you know what this does? 19:57:34 my first brf creation 19:57:42 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:57:56 -!- jix has joined. 19:58:07 It accepts input, ignores that, then, while not EOF, takes input, outputs it, and ignores the next input. 19:58:20 yes 19:58:26 Or, higher-level, it outputs every other character of input. 19:58:34 For all those non-brainers: oh, you said it 19:58:44 Trivial. 19:59:20 I will learn it tommorow 19:59:44 ,[>>>>+<<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]--[>-<++++++]>[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]--[>-<++++++]>--[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]----[>-<----]>+++[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]<<<[>>>+<+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]----[>-<----]>+[<+>[-]]+<[>-<-]>[>[-]<<<,[-<.>]>>-]>[<<<<.>>>>[-]]<<<<[-],] 19:59:51 Can you tell me what that does? 19:59:59 Nope. i just started to learn it 20:00:05 asiekierka, it is not 403'd 20:00:07 it just looks like it. 20:00:11 try harder. 20:00:17 pikhq, even i couldn't tell you what that did. 20:01:11 It accepts input in my BFcompress format (+,-,>, and < are RLE'd) and outputs Brainfuck. 20:01:15 :O 20:01:22 Nice one! 20:01:35 asiekierka, GulesFish yet? :P 20:01:38 I will probably make a BFP 20:01:41 One of my earlier Brainfuck hacks (later ported to PEBBLE). 20:01:47 BrainF**k PDA 20:01:53 a little machine 20:01:53 (the version there is the one written via PEBBLE) 20:01:56 with it's own font 20:02:01 running BF 20:02:10 with a 2MB flash memory and USB support 20:02:16 and a 320x240 screen... 20:02:29 2MB is overkill, as is USB. 20:02:30 2MB or lower 20:02:39 or any other contact method 20:02:44 that's cheap 20:02:51 You only need 30,000 chars. 20:03:14 i will rather make 60,000. 20:03:16 for more apps 20:03:16 30,000 is not enough for lots of programs 20:03:20 oh 20:03:24 so i'll make like 256kb 20:03:26 Hell, you could probably get away with using the processor's cache. . . 20:03:31 i think 100,000 unsigned 1-byte cells is good 20:03:42 it's 262144 chars 20:03:46 about the screen though - will you memmap it? 20:03:48 ehird`: Even LostKingdom runs in 30,000 chars. 20:03:50 ... i don't know 20:03:57 or just regular output? 20:03:57 I will make a 320x240 screen 20:04:00 because regular output would suck 20:04:00 and a special keyboard 20:04:02 no graphics, etc 20:04:14 it'll just have a implementation of brainf**k 20:04:17 e.g. i think that , should return "raw" character codes 20:04:17 as basic as it gets 20:04:19 well that's just lame 20:04:26 it will be reprogrammed 20:04:27 if needed 20:04:34 i think: cell 0, or something, is screen position 20:04:39 . prints character at cell to that position 20:04:47 , gets one raw character code instead of the next character on the line 20:05:13 i will not do it. 20:05:16 :D 20:05:28 asiekierka: You get to GulesFish? 20:05:33 i don't want to 20:05:37 I'm going real soon 20:05:39 you must 20:05:42 it is simple 20:05:49 or you are EXILED IN FIERY DEATH 20:07:16 hint: that page has been tampered with 20:09:12 Brainfuck crasher: 20:09:15 ,[+.,--] 20:09:17 Try it :D 20:10:01 brainfuck crasher: +[] 20:10:08 -!- blahbot` has joined. 20:10:12 And sure. Let's see if it crashes. 20:10:14 %bf ,[+.,--] 20:10:18 %ps 20:10:19 0. ps 20:10:25 %bf ,[+.,--]!hello world 20:10:27 %ps 20:10:27 0. bf ,[+.,--]!hello world 20:10:29 1. ps 20:10:31 Not crashed. Running. 20:10:33 %kill 0 20:10:34 %ps 20:10:34 0. ps 20:10:37 Well that was easy 20:10:43 well 20:10:48 it's infinitely going 20:11:00 So... just wait until it eats all mem 20:11:44 it won't eat all memory 20:11:47 it doesn't use > at all 20:11:56 it just adds, outputs, inputs, and subtracts two 20:12:08 incidentally, equal to ,[-.,] 20:12:10 :D 20:12:34 :DDD 20:12:37 oh wait 20:12:46 ,[-.>,>] try now 20:12:47 and wait 20:14:12 i'm going 20:14:15 sorry 20:14:21 i will be back tommorow 20:14:26 -!- asiekierka has quit. 20:14:39 Damn it, he's coming back. 20:15:54 yes, unforunately 20:16:14 tomorrow... he is forced to get to gulesfish! 20:16:23 ... maybe forced to beat basil. but that would just be cruel 20:16:41 ... though ... being cruel to someone who uses age as an excuse for anything may be justified ... :P 20:17:46 I use age as an excuse for being an age. 20:18:32 heh 20:19:48 i think i might make a BF pda, but with better cellsize and my screen IO system :P 20:20:01 though i guess maybe it isn't the best 20:20:17 (. = output current cell at position in [0] 20:20:33 , = input one keypress (NOTE: keypress, not character) store in current cell) 20:21:02 still, allows for graphics and stuff 20:21:14 maybe instead a pixel based system 20:21:29 . = flip pixel at position in cell 20:21:40 that sounds good 20:21:45 but.. tedious to use i guess 20:24:25 -!- turingcomplete has joined. 20:25:08 :/ 20:25:15 hmm 20:25:33 with that definition of ., and a 320x240 screen, prizes to whoever gives the shortest code to draw a hollow circle 20:26:03 assuming, of course, that cell size goes up to at least 76800 20:28:03 assuming starting top-left pixel is in the current cell 20:34:23 oh come on, someone? :) 20:35:27 Is there a type of Channel in Java's nio that supports pushing back? (Something like PushbackInputStream ?) 20:42:33 hmm, 20:42:43 should this PDA/machine/thing have any persistant memory? 20:42:48 i.e. a way to save programs 20:42:55 and maybe their output 20:45:10 or just ram 20:50:11 * pikhq senses a n00b 20:50:35 who me? :) 20:51:34 No, turingcomplete. 20:51:40 ah 20:51:42 how? 20:52:15 i forgot my nick from the last time, and that was the first time I was here 20:52:42 and turingcomplete was first thing that came into my mind after MrDurp 20:54:16 *shrug* 20:54:38 yeah, stupid 21:00:07 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine proposed BF machine spec 21:02:17 # This page has been accessed one time. 21:04:11 yeah so? 21:04:12 i just made it 21:05:23 nothing 21:07:30 i do wonder how hard that circle program will be though 21:10:31 http://www.electronixandmore.com/project/relaycomputertwo/ 21:33:00 i think not too hard 21:33:13 but not trivial 21:33:51 There are multiple things that could be deemed "hollow circles". 21:34:19 Here, have one: {(0,1), (0,-1), (1,0), (-1,0)} 21:37:27 heh 21:37:33 well like that but bigger ;) 21:37:39 say 50x50 or something 21:37:44 how bigger 21:37:46 say 50x50 or something 21:38:18 shouldn't that be in the rules? 21:38:37 meh 21:38:39 it's just a tiny competition 21:38:49 because i'd like to see some code to demonstate the feasability of its screen mechanism 21:45:03 I think it's feasible, as long as you can indeed toggle each bit in an arbitrary way. 21:45:10 (It's not feasable unless it can be feased. :-) 21:45:56 what do you mean toggle each bit in an "arbitary" way? 21:46:05 ehird`: solved the puzzle? 21:46:09 you can get the current 0/1 status of a bit, and flip a bit from 0->1 and 1->0 21:46:15 jix, not yet. i'm going to try later 21:48:40 ehird`: can the code always take a number and toggle the corresponding bit? 21:48:54 And can it avoid doing so? 21:49:04 ihope, i don't understand 21:49:08 it can always toggle a bit, yes 21:49:17 @ flips the bit whose position is in the current cell 21:49:28 * ihope nods 21:49:38 if you wanted to permanently turn off a bit, there's: 21:49:43 ?[@] 21:49:50 er. wait, no 21:49:57 you'd have to duplicate the value, then go over to it 21:50:11 ?DUPLICATE<[>@] 21:50:13 something like that 21:50:14 Yeah, so drawing a circle can definitely be done. 21:50:22 yes, but can it be done relatively concisely? 21:50:35 algorithmically, that is? 21:50:41 I don't see why not. 21:50:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 21:50:56 show your code then :) the spec is here: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine 21:51:02 RodgerTheGreat, jix finished the whole of your puzzles... 21:51:07 hi, guys 21:51:09 really? 21:51:10 RodgerTheGreat, he did Basil in a matter of minutes o.O 21:51:12 wow, cool 21:51:24 jix: kudos to you, man! :D 21:51:28 he didn't get GulesFish though, he didn't know what a red herring was 21:51:36 what'd you think of the challenges? 21:51:38 but once he got that, he finished it in barely any time 21:51:42 That was a red herring? 21:51:52 ihope, er - oops 21:51:57 * ehird` and his big fat mouth 21:52:06 ^^ 21:52:12 ihope: look up the definition of "Gules" 21:52:15 Eh, I stopped trying once I didn't see an obvious way to get past GulesFish. 21:52:23 jix: did you have fun? :) 21:52:34 Ah, red. 21:52:35 RodgerTheGreat: yeah... i found basil quite clever 21:52:40 thanks 21:52:58 gulesfish is unfair at least at one step 21:53:14 So just how is number translated into point? 21:53:40 In the BF machine, that is. 21:54:03 ihope, you know graphics memory? 21:54:16 it's just linear, 80*24 cells 21:54:30 320 wide, 240 tall. 21:54:30 it just displays the first 80, then the next 80, etc 21:54:35 ihope, yess 21:54:38 so 320*240 cells 21:54:45 except, its a pointer in this case 21:54:50 So (x,y) is x + 240*y? 21:55:07 yes 21:55:15 x + 320*y? 21:55:20 Wrapping would be nice. 21:55:31 Er, yes, 320. 21:55:35 ihope, i guess. but if the max value isn't defined.. 21:55:43 Doesn't matter. 21:55:45 I think. 21:55:56 you could do [-] and end up with 34857459234234 or 76824 21:56:06 999999 * 999999 = 1 (mod 1000000), no? 21:56:18 Er, [-] and end up with something other than zero? 21:56:24 er, [-]- 21:56:27 or even just - 21:56:32 Indeed. 21:56:45 maybe i should fix the maximum at 76800 21:56:56 76799, you mean? 21:57:14 As long as the minimum is 0, which is an extremely sensible thing to do. :-) 21:57:16 320 * 240 = 76800 21:57:18 err, yes 21:57:31 And then it wraps? 21:58:21 yes 21:58:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine spec updated 21:58:55 if you can give me code to draw, algorithmically, a 50x50 circle with that spec, you get entered into the competition 22:00:07 hm... 22:00:38 perhaps I should brush off my BF Sine function and get it working properly 22:00:54 Sine function. That's a way I hadn't thought of. 22:01:19 that's how you *normally* draw circles in CG 22:01:22 until a circle is relatively simple to do, i'll keep refining the spec :) this competition will help 22:01:36 Still, you should define a circle. 22:01:49 you've seen a circle before. 22:01:49 :P 22:01:57 there's not that many circles you can make in 50x50... 22:02:16 you could also do things with c^2 = sqrt(a^2 + b^2), but it'd be tricky to draw a hollow circle that way 22:02:16 Yes, but I can't turn on an uncountably infinite number of points. 22:02:38 one doesn't use sine to draw circles! 22:02:42 basic benchmark: look something not unlike what paint produces when you drag the circle tool from topleft to bottomright on a 50x50 image 22:04:06 ehird`: reminds me a bit of this: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060 22:04:13 although BFVGA is a little more direct 22:04:41 how does bfvga do it 22:04:55 jix: sine and cosine. You can shift sine's output a little and have cosine for free 22:05:06 generate lookup tables and it isn't even horrifically slow 22:05:21 ehird`: it just maps the BF tape *directly* to VGA memory 22:05:23 Is it okay if I draw a discrete circle? :-P 22:05:35 RodgerTheGreat: you can done circle drawing with just multiplication and addition/bitshift i think 22:05:35 i like BFVGA way 22:05:42 ihope: that'd be trivial, but it seems like it'd be allowed 22:05:46 That is, a Galois circle. 22:05:50 jix: I'm aware of this 22:06:02 sure, go ahead, whatever 22:06:23 as long as it looks like a circle to me 22:06:49 subjective tests? 22:06:52 you can approximate sine as a McLaurin series, and then do it with just +-/* 22:07:12 turingcomplete, yes! 22:07:29 i'm just looking for a 50x50 drawing that the average person would recognize as a smooth-for-its-size circle 22:08:50 alright, this'll take me a few minutes... 22:09:14 -!- turingcomplete has quit ("Leaving"). 22:10:03 ehird`: are these screen addresses zero-indexed? 22:10:08 RodgerTheGreat, yes 22:10:11 woot 22:12:27 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:14:01 I don't think Galois circles generally look a thing like "real" circles. :-) 22:17:18 i think my isp is fucked 22:18:25 i've been disconnected 4 times in the last hour, and while i am connected i get about 2kb/s 22:18:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:22:29 RodgerTheGreat, it's 100 lines already, isn't it 22:22:50 erm... yes 22:26:51 what of it? 22:27:48 haha 22:28:01 :D 22:28:03 how long will it be when it's done? 5000? 22:28:20 well, it's BF- "lines" is relative 22:28:43 I'm about halfway complete with my pseudocode 22:29:51 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:29:54 ok, i think drawing a circle is way harder than it needs to be. heh 22:30:27 I'm getting there, I'm getting there 22:33:32 well, how many characters of BF would you estimate it to be? 22:33:39 i want using this to draw simple shapes /relatively/ simply :) 22:34:57 hm 22:35:18 well, a rectangle would be a fuckload easier to write efficiently 22:35:55 indeed 22:35:59 but circles are common things 22:36:14 I suppose 22:36:21 I consider lines more common things 22:36:33 heh 2007-08-02: 00:42:42 -!- clog has joined. 00:42:42 -!- clog has joined. 01:12:30 Eight and swapping? 01:12:34 How is eight swapping? 01:15:01 Apparently, you can't read. 01:25:30 How do you conclude that? 01:27:35 swapping as in virtual memory swapping 01:27:39 Because you left out every other word. 01:38:43 Not swapping as in moving stuff from RAM to some other place and back again? 01:39:50 that is swapping as in virtual memory 01:39:57 That's exactly what virtual memory *does*. 01:55:22 ``ci`ci 02:09:54 -!- Sukoshi has left (?). 03:02:58 is call/cc functionally pure? 03:22:51 bsmntbombdood: nope. 03:23:07 pikhq: perhaps I should have said "why is eight swapping?" 03:23:38 That's a good question. Why is an adjective being thought of as a noun in your head? 03:23:39 oh, you know haskell right? 03:23:48 I do. 03:24:23 pikhq: "why are eight megabytes swapping"? 03:24:56 is "data Term = Con Int | Div Term Term Term; eval :: Term -> Int; eval (Con a) = a; eval (Div t u) = eval t / eval u" haskell? 03:25:00 Because some poor bastard only has 4 of them to work with. :p 03:25:04 with ';' meaning a new line 03:25:26 bsmntbombdood: it looks like Haskell to me. 03:25:37 damn, that's pretty cool 03:25:38 (And ; happens to be valid Haskell syntax, I believe.) 03:26:38 Except I don't believe / works on Ints, and it seems that should be "Div Term Term" in the data declaration, not "Div Term Term Term". 03:28:02 er...that's what i meant 03:28:38 * ihope nods 03:33:03 i may have to take another look at haskell 03:36:28 Some languages assume you are infallible. Some languages... don't. 03:37:04 Still other languages assume that you are fallible, but don't give a fuck about it. 03:37:14 you mean in the sense of protecting you from yourself? 04:07:38 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 04:10:12 yay, i sort of understand monads now 04:19:38 not monadic parsers, though 04:30:04 IMO the key to understanding monads is to ignore the IO one for a while. 04:30:38 ...i haven't seen the IO one yet 04:54:55 -!- immibis has joined. 04:55:49 wtf is going on with that topic 04:56:23 also "pikhq must select 1 and he can only select 2-6"? 05:49:31 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:51:33 N00b. 05:51:37 And we've not touched it. 05:51:54 I've opted to not select a rule, thereby breaking the axioms. 05:59:04 * immibis ignores pikhq 05:59:32 Break that rule. 06:00:19 * immibis ignores pikhq telling him to break the rule 06:00:50 * immibis sees there are 4 rules which say to ignore pikhq, and he would have to break all 4 at once. 06:01:11 * immibis stops using /me 06:01:23 Break whichever one you're using to ignore me. 06:05:17 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:05:23 Hi! 06:05:47 *groan* 06:08:21 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. DO NOT Ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT Ignore anybody. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE.. 06:08:26 New rules! 06:08:30 which one youselect? 06:08:35 you select?* 06:08:39 i guess 2. 06:08:48 Break rule 2. 06:09:01 I can accept those axioms. 06:09:13 No ignores, and discussion of pfuck? :) 06:09:23 asiekierka: http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/foo.php 06:10:46 Is there a BF game? 06:10:48 or animation? 06:11:34 It's a puzzle. 06:11:40 or anything cool in BF? 06:11:42 i know 06:11:45 it's steganography? 06:11:51 or BF-compress? 06:12:57 ASIEKIERKA BROKE A RULE 06:13:04 7. You cannot add new rules in. 06:13:14 But 06:13:15 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE. 06:13:17 it says "new rules" 06:13:25 I.E. you can't add rules 9 and beyond 06:13:28 oh right 06:13:30 but i can edit existing 06:13:31 HA! 06:13:36 i didn't add #9 06:13:37 or something. 06:13:41 and i made #7 06:13:50 too 06:14:02 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. DO NOT Ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT Ignore anybody. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You MUST add new rules in. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE.. 06:14:09 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 06:14:17 And i added them already 06:14:19 before 06:14:24 yesterday GMT+1 06:14:28 enough times 06:14:31 so i don't fail in LIFE 06:14:44 nor pikhq broke #1. 06:14:54 pikhq and me did everything 06:14:58 so now add new rules 06:15:05 or u fail in _-' LIFE '-_ 06:15:19 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. DO NOT Ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT Ignore anybody. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You MUST add new rules in AND do not edit existing rules. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail. 06:15:23 I already have done that. 06:15:23 :) 06:15:28 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore asiekierka. 3. DO NOT ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT listen to asiekierka. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. anyone can add new rules in or edit existing once except for asiekierka. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7 or your name is asiekier. 06:15:37 oops topic too long 06:15:44 delete forum and wiki 06:15:47 how about you stfu 06:15:53 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore asiekierka. 3. DO NOT ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT listen to asiekierka. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. anyone can add new rules in or edit existing once except for asiekierka. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7 you fail.. 06:16:17 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | No rules.. 06:16:18 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. How about we all stfu (bsmntbombdood, thx for the idea! you won in LIFE!). 06:16:31 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:16:58 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. No rules. 2. Break rule #1.. 06:17:11 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:17:27 -!- asiekierka has set topic: #Esoteric ruleset disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:17:43 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:17:47 Beat THAT! 06:17:48 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:18:08 -!- asiekierka has set topic: No disccusion. | FORUM AND WIKI: I said, NO DISCUSSION! | Rules: 1. No discussion.. 06:18:13 Beat THAT! 06:18:14 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:18:18 HEY! 06:18:28 * immibis wonders how to make an icechat script that locks-down the topic 06:18:37 locks-down = changes it back when someone changes it 06:18:49 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric stfu discussion | STFU and STFU: STFU.. 06:18:52 ops 06:18:55 oops 06:18:55 lament: You're an op. Set +t. 06:19:02 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:19:06 you could just set +t 06:19:27 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. Do not change the topic or you fail in life.. 06:19:32 oops 06:19:45 who wants to delete #1? 06:19:48 i cannot 06:19:52 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:20:00 I have no life to fail at. :p 06:20:17 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: STFU | Rules: 1. Do not change topic or you fail in life. pikhq did.. 06:20:25 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:20:26 you deleted the rule 06:20:29 so i could redo it 06:20:31 I know. :) 06:20:44 Damn, this is stupid. 06:20:53 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. Stop changing the TOPIC!. 06:21:13 I'll agree to that rule, actually. 06:22:02 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Stop changing the TOPIC FINALLY!. 06:22:09 i select to break #2 :D 06:22:28 the rule #1 wasn't my idea though 06:22:40 Please do not change the topic, okay? 06:23:30 Please allow me to change the topic though or i'll delete rule #2. 06:24:23 You may break rule 1. 06:24:29 Nope. 06:24:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:24:41 You may ignore the paradox involved. 06:24:46 Dankon. 06:24:46 because if you break rule #1, you can't break any rule... 06:24:49 so on 06:25:04 Humans are good at avoiding paradoxes. 06:25:05 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: C:\_. 06:25:07 You know that, right? 06:25:14 nope 06:25:59 and i changed the rules again 06:26:05 C:\del rules 06:26:14 Here is how humans avoid paradoxes: 06:26:16 We don't give a fuck. 06:26:19 Simple, no? 06:26:28 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: C:\del rules.exe and C:\copy pikhq.dat rules.exe. 06:26:38 here it is 06:26:44 You. . . Use DOS?!? 06:27:01 ?!? 06:27:08 sometimes . . . . . . . 06:27:19 sometimes | | | | | | | | 06:27:23 whoops 06:27:23 Poor, un-UNIXed soul. 06:27:34 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:41 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:46 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:50 sometimes . . . . . . . 06:27:50 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:50 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:51 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM ANDWIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: C:\del rules.exe and C:\copy pikhq.dat rules.exe and C:\del rules.exe and Do not change the topic.. 06:27:53 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:53 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:28:03 -!- asiekierka has set topic: C:\. 06:28:05 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:28:06 -!- immibis has quit (Excess Flood). 06:28:08 goddamn 06:28:17 dead. 06:28:23 1 gone, 19 to go. 06:28:23 -!- immibis has joined. 06:28:31 one down, oneto go 06:28:44 -!- asiekierka has set topic: >run "#esoteric_irc.exe". 06:28:44 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:28:50 oh no 06:28:51 OH SNAP 06:28:55 -!- asiekierka has set topic. 06:28:57 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:29:05 stupid script 06:29:07 i was just about to disable it too 06:29:16 -!- asiekierka has set topic: .. 06:29:28 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:29:29 * bsmntbombdood sets mode #esoteric +b asiekierka* 06:29:36 * immibis thinks he's fixed the script 06:29:41 -!- asiekierka has set topic: . 06:29:45 * pikhq would like to second that 06:29:47 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:29:54 asiekierka: Could ya stop? 06:29:54 best. topic. eve---- 06:30:03 YES SIR 06:30:06 if you will teach me BF. 06:30:17 * immibis knows absolutely NOTHING about icechat scripting so he gives up and deletes the script. 06:30:41 Here are the instructions: [] does a while loop. . does output of the current cell. , does input to the current cell. + increments the current cell. 06:30:46 - decrements the current cell. 06:30:51 that i know 06:30:53 > goes right a cell. < goes left a cell. 06:30:55 :) 06:30:57 the commands 06:30:58 That's the whole language. 06:31:02 that's all you need to know 06:31:08 i know 06:31:19 So, you know Brainfuck. 06:31:28 for example: ,[.,] is a cat program. 06:31:36 (not necessarily how to do anything useful with it: that comes from experimentation) 06:31:39 i got it. 06:31:42 input, then while the current cell is nonzero, output and input again 06:31:52 ok 06:32:01 well 06:32:01 that's what ,[.,] does 06:32:03 gotta try something 06:32:40 ,[,.,] - my creation, shows every other character, or in low-level: 06:33:11 ok but what use is it? 06:33:22 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:33:30 oh no 06:33:30 none. Just learning 06:33:31 I have a BF interpreter which does not support input because this is IRC. 06:33:32 Lets you cat NULLs. 06:33:41 EgoBot has a better BF interpreter but he's not around. 06:34:05 just thought it might be useful for asiekierka 06:34:06 Please, interpret "+[]" 06:34:11 !bf +[] 06:34:20 you can stop it, you know. 06:34:21 !ps 06:34:21 2 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 4) 06:34:22 1 Process on #esoteric: bf +[] (Thread-ID 3) 06:34:24 !kill 1 06:34:39 !echo hi! 06:34:53 i know 06:35:01 !irp is a command which sends text to #esoteric 06:35:02 is a command which sends text to #esoteric 06:35:10 !raw is a command which sends raw irc commands 06:35:18 !raw part 06:35:22 eg: !raw PRIVMSG #toboge :I am a bot 06:35:29 will send "I am a bot" to #toboge 06:35:37 !irp /part 06:35:38 /part 06:35:38 !loadbfc echo ,[.,] 06:35:45 nice one! 06:35:47 !echo hi! 06:35:47 hi! 06:35:49 ok 06:35:53 there's your !echo command 06:35:59 !irp BF and /part were in a boat. /part shooted BF. Who's the killer? 06:35:59 BF and /part were in a boat. /part shooted BF. Who's the killer? 06:36:13 hey 06:36:18 /part 06:36:26 or nobody 06:36:30 you didn't say anyone dies 06:36:31 you didn't say anyone died 06:36:41 !raw QUIT 06:36:42 -!- toBogE has quit (Client Quit). 06:37:04 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:37:05 the. best. use. of. it. YET. 06:37:12 the. best. use. of. it. YET. Am i rite? 06:37:16 ? 06:37:25 also: ?FACTOIDNAME will retrieve factoids 06:37:25 ?x 06:37:26 x is the letter before y 06:37:28 ?y 06:37:28 y is the down-coordinate. 06:37:30 ?z 06:37:30 z is the letter after y. 06:37:32 I just used a command on toBogE 06:37:33 ?a 06:37:34 No such factoid a 06:37:38 ?quit 06:37:54 ? is for retrieving information 06:37:56 !raw PART #esoteric 06:37:57 !factoid a is ! 06:38:10 !irp test 06:38:14 !ctcp ACTION tests 06:38:16 !raw BAN #esoteric :asiekierka 06:38:24 -!- toBogE has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:38:31 ghosted 06:38:34 HAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA 06:38:35 it seems to get ghosted a lot 06:38:37 ZOMG OWNED! 06:38:41 BOOHAHAHAHAAHAHA 06:38:48 !raw STFU 06:38:49 as in, it gets disconnected but doesn't know it 06:38:58 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:39:00 i have an idea for a script! 06:39:07 !raw ignore asiekierka 06:39:08 Sorry i must do it. 06:39:15 !raw IGNORE immibis 06:39:19 !raw IGNORE pikhq 06:39:27 !raw IGNORE Haikz 06:39:32 oh 06:39:33 :( 06:39:36 ignore is a client command 06:39:43 OH! 06:40:17 !raw QUIT Shut up y'all and i'll comeback. 06:40:17 -!- toBogE has quit (Client Quit). 06:40:32 He should srsly block it. 06:40:46 or we'll make an anti-toBogE trojan. 06:43:14 ... 06:43:16 i gotta go 06:43:22 i don't have attention 06:43:26 do i? 06:43:45 he is there 06:44:42 try to whois him 06:44:47 i added AWAY message :) 06:44:55 please, go 06:45:56 please, go AWAY? 06:46:12 HUH? 06:46:19 WOAH! 06:53:07 ,[.>,]<<<.>.>.> 06:53:09 I was bored. 06:53:21 And i made an easy stdin store tool 06:53:25 gotta go for a sec 06:53:30 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asieaway. 06:59:26 -!- asieaway has changed nick to asiekierka. 06:59:31 Okay i'll stop 06:59:41 Dankon. 07:00:14 but not talking 07:01:55 -!- toBogE has joined. 07:02:04 Finally got him here. 07:02:16 hard work, but done! 07:02:21 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:02:24 I or he did it himself 07:02:32 -!- immibis has joined. 07:02:51 computer went to sleep 07:03:00 i see asiekierka was being annoying 07:03:13 Well, yes, 10 year olds are good at that. 07:03:27 asiekierka's 10 years old? 07:03:37 Yeah. 07:03:42 yes. 07:04:08 -._.-'-._ and i'm smart enough to learn ASCII and BF. _.-'-._.- 07:04:32 * pikhq has been programming since 8 07:04:33 asiekierka: probably not a good idea to use your real name on irc if you're only 10 07:04:44 Stupid hacks back then, though. 07:04:46 I don't care. 07:04:52 * immibis has also been programming since about 8 (he thinks, he can't remember exactly when) 07:04:57 pikhq: I too! 07:04:59 asiekierka: Still not a good idea. 07:05:00 * asiekierka too! 07:05:12 it's my nickname. 07:05:15 Adrian Siekierka: don't your parents care? 07:05:15 asiekierka. 07:05:29 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:05:38 * pikhq started doing remotely *serious* stuff towards the age of 12. . . That being about when I started in UNIXdom. 07:05:40 No not really in fact... they don't know even 10% of what i am doing. 07:05:53 -!- toBogE has joined. 07:06:05 Gxi malbonegas. 07:06:26 ? 07:06:50 !ctcp ACTION has no idea what pikhq is talking about 07:06:50 * toBogE has no idea what pikhq is talking about 07:07:06 That's really not good. 07:07:39 i must go off 07:07:39 -!- asiekierka has quit. 07:07:41 !ctcp ACTION has no idea what anyone is talking about - he can't understand human lnguages. 07:07:41 ACTION has no idea what anyone is talking about - 07:07:42 he can't understand human lnguages. 07:07:51 oops 07:08:02 what happened there? 07:08:17 * immibis tests using a hyphen - in a CTCP ACTION command 07:31:15 -!- calamari has joined. 07:40:53 -!- fizzie has joined. 07:49:40 -!- immibis has quit ("We be chillin - IceChat style"). 07:49:51 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:01 -!- immibis has joined. 08:16:02 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 08:22:01 -!- MichaelRaskin has joined. 08:29:16 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:49:56 -!- immibis has joined. 09:33:51 -!- immibis has quit ("Pull the pin and count to what?"). 09:34:30 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 10:30:06 -!- MichaelRaskin has left (?). 11:17:32 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:13:14 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:10:41 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:10:44 Hi! 14:11:07 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Do not change the rules. 2. Do not change the topic BTW.. 14:16:21 Is anybody on? 14:31:05 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 14:31:12 Hi! 14:31:19 hello 14:31:23 what's up, asiekierka? 14:31:25 Can anybody try to optimize the size of my BF code? 14:31:26 +++++++++++++>>+++++[<++>-] 14:31:34 it makes 13 and 10 14:31:37 vars 14:31:41 so you can paste newlines easily 14:32:45 well, multiplication can only compress constants of size 15 or greater 14:32:59 oh 14:33:04 right 14:33:17 so that may very well be optimal 14:33:22 +++++++++++++>++++++++++ 14:33:52 there ya go 14:34:01 100% efficiency 14:34:15 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>,.>,.>,.<<<<.>.>>>>,.>,.>,.<<<<<<<.>.>>>>>>>,.>,.>,. 14:34:18 here's the whole code 14:34:25 it outputs 9 chars to a 3x3 block 14:34:52 hm 14:35:12 it's possible that you could optimize those pointer movements 14:35:30 I doubt a little. 14:35:34 well, multiplication can only compress constants of size 15 or greater 14:35:51 and these are up to 8/once 14:36:00 you may try 14:36:04 it's my first useful BF app 14:36:41 well, there's a difference between generating a constant and moving the pointer, because you can arrange your memory cells however you want 14:36:58 oh 14:38:10 It's just set on cell 0 and cell 1 14:38:13 for reference 14:38:23 if you don't need to save the 9 inputs, for example, you can make it *much* smaller. If you still want to keep that data in memory it might be faster to store your newlines in the center of the 3x3 grid data so that it's "closer" on average 14:38:40 I'm talking about the overall program here 14:38:44 i have another idea. 14:39:35 if you're new to optimizing BF, this page might be worth a glance: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants 14:41:56 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>,.>,.>,.<<<<.>.>,.>,.>,.<<<<.>.>>>>,.>,.>,. 14:42:00 Optimized by 9 chars! 14:42:07 input reusing 14:42:43 there you go 14:42:55 anything else you'll recommend? 14:43:00 although you can use a similar process to make it even smaller 14:43:09 how? 14:43:41 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>,.,.,.<<.>.>,.,.,.<<.>.>,.,.,. 14:43:57 oh 14:44:00 :) 14:44:01 then you store all your intermediate data in a single cell 14:44:03 :D 14:46:17 cool 14:46:27 ~85 chars -> 56 chars! 14:51:38 I guess we just decrased it by ~1,4 times! 14:53:28 pikhq: are you alive? 14:57:18 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:00:51 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-] 15:00:56 ultimate optimalization. 15:01:12 now there's thinkin' 15:02:53 although remember- that version is the best possible optimization for code length. The version I posted before it is the best possible optimization for speed. 15:03:08 oh 15:03:24 because they're the same program- mine has a loop unrolled, while yours is packed 15:03:47 but most people honestly don't bother optimizing BF for speed 15:04:28 another speed example- ++++++++[>+++++<-] is slower than +++++[>++++++++<-] 15:04:59 for a multiply A[>B<-], if A is greater than B, B[ argh 15:05:13 B[>A<-] is always faster 15:05:29 because the overhead of the loop is executed fewer times 15:05:48 that's a situation where identical code length results in a different execution time 15:08:27 see how that works? 15:10:14 yes... We always should multiply LOWER[ yes. LOWER[>GREATER<-] 15:11:15 or LOWER[-] 15:11:22 yes 15:11:25 right? 15:11:55 I don't care about execution time. Most of us have at least 800mhz processors 15:11:59 right? 15:12:02 and when you can do many multiplies inline (like ++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++++<<<-], you save even more overhead 15:12:32 true, but ordering your multiplies properly is usually a "free" optimization- faster code at no length cost 15:12:49 yes 15:12:56 sometimes it is NOT possible... but... 15:13:15 you cannot check which one is greater in BF without overhead? 15:14:00 well, I'm talking about generating constants. When you generate constants, it's *YOU* that needs to know which one is greater 15:14:15 yes 15:14:21 but if i'm taking input from the user 15:14:26 ... 15:14:31 it's not possible really 15:14:36 then you're in a completely different situation 15:14:46 yes i know 15:14:50 then the *USER* should do it 15:14:54 or... wait a milisecond more 15:15:00 :DDD 15:15:06 I guess 15:18:10 It's a good code now, not bloated, isn't it? 15:18:20 heheh 15:18:31 I reckon 15:18:40 i know it IS a bit bloated still, but it's due to BF... 15:18:46 limitations 15:18:46 THAT i LIKE. 15:19:49 -!- blahbot` has joined. 15:20:33 * ehird` is toying with the idea of making a homebrew cpu 15:20:48 homebrew BF cpu? 15:20:53 it's there 15:20:57 just build one 15:21:11 when did i say BF 15:21:25 nowhere 15:21:45 + if i was going to make a BF device (which i am toying with admittedly - http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine) i wouldn't use a premade spec 15:22:25 I will edit it 15:22:30 for more space!!! 15:22:36 and add a screen 15:22:41 i will make a BrainFube. 15:22:49 BrainF**k + Cube 15:22:56 it will look like a CUBE 15:24:01 and i'll design a special keyboard 15:24:06 with only BF chars 15:24:23 STDIN? will use a console-like keyboard 15:24:27 asiekierka: I'd like to see a program in C that is the same length as "+++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]" while accomplishing the same task 15:24:28 BF chars, arrows, OK and CANCEL. 15:24:34 14 chars in total 15:24:38 I don't think BF is necessarily bloated for simple things 15:24:40 :DDDD 15:24:48 yes 15:24:57 but 2MB <> 2KB :DDD 15:25:01 it's fucking sweet for implementing a variety of cyphers 15:26:11 asiekierka, that extension could be come up with in 5 minutes 15:26:22 seriously, why bother extending an idea if you don't have anything really useful to add to it? 15:26:34 optimalization! 15:26:37 my machine design has no limits on tape size 15:26:41 it can be anything the maker wants 15:26:56 anything > 320x240 1bit would be hell to code graphics with 15:27:15 and backwards compatibility is useful, the new commands adding much-needed flexibility for lower-level code 15:27:44 76799 is (320*240)-1, so you can do "----" to get near the end instead of "" 15:27:45 My will have up to 262144 cells 15:27:57 my spec has no limit on cells 15:28:10 my will have 256kb ram 15:28:10 whatever amount of cells you have, if you don't change anything else, it is still according to my spec 15:28:16 256/1024 === 262144 15:28:17 ram just stores cells 15:28:19 yes 15:28:24 READ the page please 15:28:25 yes 15:28:32 it says NOTHING about how much ram/how many cells a machine must have 15:28:36 ok 15:28:40 therefore you haven't really extended the idea at all 15:28:43 i know 15:28:57 It will have pagefile support maybe 15:29:00 wtf 15:29:02 and SD card reader 15:29:05 MAYBE! 15:29:06 WTF 15:29:12 this is fscking BRAINFUCK 15:29:13 2GBs of BF stuff :O 15:29:18 you're crazy 15:29:20 absolutely crazy 15:29:22 :D 15:29:27 i know 15:29:32 i'm just kidding 15:29:52 even if you make those extensions, it'd need to be transparent to BF 15:30:04 i will put up to 1MB of cells (1048576). It's enough for 99,9% of people 15:30:09 i know 15:30:20 SD card will be a storage/pagefile space 15:30:33 along with an included 4MB flashmem i guess 15:30:42 and a simple editor 15:31:05 i will put up to 1MB of cells (1048576). It's enough for 99,9% of people 15:31:07 that is overkill 15:31:18 ... okay 15:31:21 60,000 should be enough for anyone (TM) 15:31:25 384KB o' cells 15:31:32 ok 15:31:46 131072 cells. enough. 15:32:15 wait 15:32:19 it'll be 128kb ram 15:32:24 half of it = cells 15:32:38 30,000 cells is the portable BF standard 15:32:40 8kb = cache 15:32:45 56kb = cube memory. 15:32:58 65536 cells 15:33:07 56kb of cube memory 15:33:13 8kb of cache 15:33:16 RodgerTheGreat, yes, but some things use more 15:33:21 60,000 should work with anything 15:33:32 fair enough 15:33:43 but 100,000 - that's just a waste 15:33:47 i will have just 5536 more 15:33:55 128KB ram 15:33:59 from which: 15:34:11 24kb = MINIMAL BF-space 15:34:15 space for BF scripts 15:34:20 64kb = BF cells 15:34:26 32kb = cube memory 15:34:32 8kb = cache!!! :DDD 15:35:35 you really are crazy 15:35:59 i know 15:36:06 I may do just 96kb ram 15:36:09 ENOUGH! 15:36:38 56kb = 57344 cells 15:36:48 4kb = cache 15:36:59 4kb = screen cache 15:37:09 16kb = cube memory 15:37:43 8kb = file cache 15:37:58 8kb = empty if needed 15:38:05 8kb is just for "kicks" 15:44:18 ask yourself if you even need ram to implement this 15:44:34 ... no not really 15:44:38 but: 15:44:45 - a plase to store cells, cache. 15:44:49 place* 15:44:58 i can use even processor cache 15:45:01 if ANY 15:45:11 i can use even 32KB of cache 15:45:30 exactly, you don't need ram 15:45:41 30000 cells, 2768b for cache. 15:45:54 try and make the most minimal BF cpu design you can :) 15:46:11 maybe ditch the screen stuff - just use a LED display like on calculators 15:46:11 or RAM design more like 15:46:20 i may... 15:46:35 if you get it really small i'll be impressed :) 15:46:42 but i'd rather go on and make a 240x80 screen 15:46:45 in a small cube 15:46:49 or wait 15:46:53 i'll make it... 15:46:56 [put TI-86 screen res here] 15:47:03 it's small but can fit 21x8 chars 15:47:14 sure, that's a LED 15:47:20 20x8 + scrollbar is enough for ANYONE! 15:47:26 scrollbar? 15:47:28 and a 32kb cache 15:47:30 that'll take a lot 15:47:30 yes 15:47:42 no if you design it compact 15:47:48 just make up/down keys 15:47:51 no need to display a scrollbar 15:47:56 ok 15:48:02 So i will use 10 chars in a keyboard 15:48:15 you won't be able to run many useful BF programs 15:48:23 :D 15:48:26 you at least want a-z0-9 15:48:34 oh 15:48:37 and, of course, a shift key for A-Z and maybe a few useful special chars on 0-9 15:48:41 but it'll be too big then 15:48:48 make the keys those small rubbery things 15:48:51 really 15:49:01 I will make an cable keyboard 15:49:05 probably the best idea 15:49:05 big but on cable! 15:49:13 don't make it too big :P 15:49:19 i will make a-z, 0-9, shift key, special chars on 0-9, all bf chars separate. 15:49:42 BF chars will be on Shift+0-7 probably 15:49:43 a-z0-9, shift key, space key, enter key, arrow keys, backspace/(shift backspace = delete) key, and brainfuck command keys 15:49:50 oh wait 15:50:33 a-z-0-9, shift,space,enter,arrow keys, backspace, and: Shift0-7 - bf command keys, Shift8 - @, Shift9 - $. 15:50:42 It should be compact enough. 15:50:51 i guess, but special keys get quite some use in BF 15:51:06 well, there are enough. 15:51:07 maybe you should refine qwerty's 0-9 special keys, then have seperate <>+-.,[] keys 15:56:34 maybe 15:57:01 well i can make them in 4 chars 15:57:05 26+9=35. 15:57:11 35+4=39 chars 15:57:53 how about, a-z0-9, ctrl and shift keys 15:57:56 shift changes a-z into A-Z 15:58:00 and 0-9 into special characters 15:58:07 And CtrL? 15:58:10 oh! 15:58:11 ctrl changes 0-7 into brainfuck, 8-9 into i dunno, 15:58:14 AND 15:58:19 ctrl-H is backspace 15:58:21 ctrl-M is newline 15:58:22 etc 15:58:26 oh 15:59:31 38 keys in total 15:59:50 rlf va gbgny 15:59:52 :D 15:59:58 ok 16:00:07 I think i could make it in a small enough dimensions. 16:00:14 Keys must be a little big 16:00:22 but i'll make Shift and Ctrl keys. 16:00:25 smaller! 16:00:34 and... 0 and 9 too 16:00:39 0-9 16:00:41 and a-z 16:00:42 a bit smaller 16:00:50 38 keys -> 144 characters 16:00:51 not bad 16:00:55 (assuming ctrl-shift is allowed) 16:01:00 oh 16:01:07 so Ctrl-Shift-H is Delete 16:01:14 i'd do ctrl-h 16:01:32 Ctrl-Shift-M is Linux newline (just 10, not 13 and 10) 16:01:41 -!- Naerian has joined. 16:01:42 ctrl-m is linux newline 16:01:43 actually. 16:01:47 hello :) 16:01:49 ^M, thus ctr-m 16:01:50 *ctrl 16:02:02 so CtrlShift-M will be Windows newline (for example, I use it) 16:02:11 so we should allow for both.... in fact 16:02:18 or have CtrlShift-M swap 16:02:22 between Win/Lin 16:02:24 ctrl-m is what most people will think 16:02:28 and Ctrl-M output the actual one 16:02:34 default - linux 16:02:42 why do you need multiple newline styles for a simple brainfuck cpu???? 16:02:42 CtrlShiftM will toggle between win and lin 16:02:55 Since i use Windows style. 16:03:00 cześć, asiekierka ;) 16:03:03 You may use Linux style. 16:03:12 kim jeste? 16:03:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:03:28 amatorem ezoterycznych jezykow :P 16:03:35 Ja te. 16:03:46 Zrobiem pierwszy moj program w BF / 16:03:55 mj pierwszy* 16:04:05 ja napisalem program wyswietlajacy moj email :D 16:04:10 wejd na ezopl 16:04:12 * pikhq wakes 16:04:14 ok 16:04:20 #ezopl 16:04:25 i rozmawiaj tu po angielsku 16:04:27 thx 16:04:30 Okay. 16:04:34 back, back to the Brainfube 16:17:14 -!- Naerian has left (?). 16:18:12 You know what command i'd like to see? 16:18:19 command to clear screen 16:18:28 useful for my new BF project 16:20:24 Then i could make the one cool thing. It will probably take ~2MB :DDD 16:20:39 except if i will go on and make stdin the whole ascii charset 16:20:41 :DDD 16:23:59 -!- ehird` has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:24:16 $$()&##)(*$()#$M_)* P*( 16:24:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:52:07 * ehird` wonders why CISC computers still exist 16:52:38 -!- ihope__ has joined. 16:52:46 Because IA32 is still in existence, of course. 16:52:53 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 16:53:58 Maybe the "quine theorem" states that there is a quine in every programming language that can output any string a Turing-complete language can in an alphabet including all characters in its source code. 17:07:27 ihope, what? 17:07:34 pikhq, why? 17:07:45 ehird`: Inertia. 17:07:54 rm -rf Inertia 17:07:54 ihope: I have a reformulation for you. 17:12:15 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 17:14:43 tank god 17:14:48 you killed the retarded rules 17:17:11 We assume that we have a Turing-complete language with an output tape, and that the program tape and the output tape have the same alphabet. 17:18:07 It is possible for a program to be executed, generating a copy of the program tape on the output tape, in any such language. 17:20:42 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 17:21:42 hmm 17:21:54 you can simulate strings in the lambda-calculus with lists 17:22:02 therefore a lambda-calculus quine is possible 17:22:08 and lambda-calculus can be converted to iota 17:22:14 so, obviously, an iota quine is possible... 17:22:20 but who will be the first to write one? :) 17:22:24 you can simulate anything in anything turing-complete 17:22:27 yes 17:22:33 but i want to see an iota quine =) 17:22:54 iota actually takes input and output, doesn't it? 17:23:40 ok back 17:23:45 lament, no 17:23:49 iota has only * and i 17:23:55 where i = \x.xSK 17:24:00 and *xy = (xy) 17:24:06 it is TC 17:24:08 i thought it had some convention for IO 17:24:11 like lazyk 17:24:12 ehird`: Actually, a lambda calculus quine is impossible, since it doesn't have an output tape. 17:24:20 pikhq, lambda calculus has lists 17:24:23 and church numerals 17:24:28 Yes, but they're not output. 17:24:39 Those are part of the program itself. 17:24:41 A lambda calculus quine will never finish reducing 17:24:43 :) 17:24:45 you know what i mean, though 17:24:55 an expression that produces a list of church numerals containing its source code 17:25:00 in ascii format 17:25:06 Now, we assume a sexp lambda calculus, with the following functions: def, lambda, and output. 17:25:15 pikhq, you don't need any of that 17:25:20 you could write one in pure LC 17:25:43 def and lambda act as you'd expect. output outputs the Church numeral that is it's argument, converted to ASCII. 17:25:46 (nonpure, though) 17:25:59 if you can write a quine in pure LC - as you can 17:26:01 ehird`: No output for the LC quine to write itself to. 17:26:02 then you can write one in iota 17:26:09 pikhq, a list of church numerals 17:26:22 that's lazyk's convention and nothing more 17:26:49 it is still a working convention 17:27:08 you can write a lambda calculus expression which when evaluated returns a list of church numerals representing the expression in ascii format 17:27:13 by extension, you can do the same with iota 17:27:14 Mmkay. . . So, you've got something that only outputs if it halts. 17:27:26 Sure, I suppose that's acceptable. 17:27:33 -- maybe with 0 and 1 for * and i to keep things simple 17:27:40 well, of course it'll halt, otherwise it's not much of a quine :) 17:28:03 lament: Well, yeah. All *quines* will halt. The issue is only that a nonhalting program can't do output. 17:28:14 But that's not *needed* for a quine to exist. 17:28:23 pikhq: with functional languages that's never an important issue 17:28:59 (lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x));So, you're saying that it doesn't matter whether or not this halts? 17:29:00 all non-halting programs are equivalent 17:29:08 Ya know what i should make? 17:29:13 pikhq: it doesn't output anything either 17:29:17 pikhq: it's the same as bottom 17:29:19 I said as much. 17:29:19 ASCIItoBF 17:29:26 asiekierka: Trivial. ;) 17:29:36 (that's one feature of PEBBLE, in fact) 17:29:37 asiekierka, done in 47 characters in BF itself. 17:29:39 oh well 17:29:42 it's easy enough to do it 17:29:48 constants 17:29:50 and copy&paste 17:29:58 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/results0.txt 17:30:00 ehird`: is that a bf golf result? 17:30:01 copy&paste&type some stuff 17:30:06 lament, yes 17:30:07 +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,] 17:30:07 If you're still new at programming, something that simple may still be useful to write. 17:30:10 hehehehe 17:30:11 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!h 17:30:11 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17:30:15 not exactly optimized, though 17:30:25 man, my entry is the longest :( 17:30:29 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!+++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,] 17:30:29 -!- blahbot` has quit (Excess Flood). 17:30:31 heheheh 17:30:40 * pikhq doesn't have an entry. . . 17:30:42 that produced about 100 messages 17:30:47 -!- blahbot` has joined. 17:31:03 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!hi 17:31:03 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17:31:06 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!hel 17:31:06 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++ 17:31:08 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!hello 17:31:14 heh. 17:31:15 %ps 17:31:15 0. ps 17:32:16 %bf >---[<->-----]<+.---.+++++++..+++.>--[<->-----]<+. 17:32:16 hello 17:32:27 %bf >><[+.,-->>+<-]!hello 17:32:30 %ps 17:32:30 0. ps 17:32:37 ^ random code 2000 17:34:31 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!CUBEMAKETOOl 17:34:31 CUBE 17:34:31 MAKE 17:34:31 TOOl 17:34:52 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]! __ |:D||__| 17:34:52 __ 17:34:52 |:D| 17:34:52 |__| 17:35:04 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!what a useless program 17:35:04 what 17:35:05 a u 17:35:05 sele 17:35:13 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!what a useless broken program 17:35:13 what 17:35:13 a u 17:35:13 sele 17:35:26 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!I knowlol! 17:35:27 I 17:35:27 kno 17:35:27 wlol 17:35:33 %bf ,+.-[<+.] 17:35:33 17:35:34 oh wait 17:35:38 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!I knowlol! 17:35:38 I 17:35:38 know 17:35:38 lol! 17:35:48 %bf ,+.-[<+.]!x 17:35:48 yyz{|}~ 17:36:11 %bf +[-+++.>] 17:36:19 %bf +[-+++.>] 17:36:25 %bf +[.>+] 17:36:27 wtf. 17:36:33 %ps 17:36:33 0. bf +[.>+] 17:36:33 1. ps 17:36:35 %kill 0 17:36:40 %bf +[.+] 17:36:40 17:36:40 17:36:51 %bf -. 17:36:51 17:37:14 %bf +[<->+.>] 17:37:14 17:37:15 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server"). 17:37:23 %bf . 17:37:25 %bf -. 17:37:25 17:37:26 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!!iH!],.[, fb% 17:37:26 -!- cmeme has joined. 17:37:27 %bf ,[.,]!Hi! 17:37:31 haha 17:37:58 %bf ,[.,]!Hi!!]<.[<],>[,> fb% 17:37:59 Hi!!]<.[<],>[,> fb% 17:38:03 crazy. 17:38:11 %bf ++++++++++>[++++++++++<-]>. 17:38:28 That does nothing. 17:38:31 zzzZZZzzzZZZ 17:38:35 oh 17:38:46 $bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>. 17:38:49 hey... what about a program that run one way, produces a program that (run one way, prints Hello, and run another way, olleH), and run another way, that same program reversed 17:38:52 I believe that is what you meant? 17:38:55 %bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>. 17:38:55 d 17:39:07 XD 17:39:07 ehird`: in what language? 17:39:13 lament, brainfuck 17:39:19 yeah... 17:39:41 Tricky. 17:39:45 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 17:39:58 It coudln't rely on loops. 17:40:12 somebody had a reversible brainfuck variant, that could be helpful 17:40:24 lament, reversible in code, silly 17:40:30 pikhq, your program did there 17:41:00 %bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>---.++++++++++++++++++.----------.----.>>>++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 17:41:01 asie! 17:41:04 ehird`: what else does reversible mean? 17:41:13 ehird`: Reversing it would generate a non-valid BF program. 17:41:13 unoptimized. I don't care. 17:41:30 pikhq, look at your program 17:41:32 asiekierka: Not bad. I think you're getting the hang of Brainfuck's basics. 17:41:34 it uses loops and reverses fine 17:41:40 +[-]+ 17:41:53 %bf +[+++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>---.++++++++++++++++++.----------.----.>>>++++[>++++++++<-]>+.] 17:41:55 ehird`: So, ,[.,] is just as valid as ],.[, 17:41:55 ? 17:42:01 lament, program.reverse != program, but bf(program) and bf(program.reverse) both do something (maybe not the same thing) 17:42:05 pikhq, %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!!iH!],.[, fb% 17:42:07 works fine reversed. 17:42:25 i would treat that as a syntax error 17:42:31 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!!iH!],.[, fb% 17:42:32 %bf ,[.,]!Hi! 17:42:34 but i suppose there's no requirement for loops to be closed 17:42:37 %bf ,[.,]!Hi! 17:42:37 Hi! 17:42:38 Sure, but that's not Brainfuck; that's Brainfuck + input. 17:42:43 pikhq, So? 17:42:47 pikhq, :) 17:42:49 pikhq, that's allowed 17:42:51 it's for %bf 17:43:17 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!>,[>,]<[.<] 17:43:17 ]<.[<],>[,> 17:43:22 Well, in *that* case, one would merely have to rely upon ignoring input. 17:43:32 pikhq, that's cheating a little 17:44:05 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!]<.[<],>[,> 17:44:05 >,[>,]<[.<] 17:44:14 your rules for what is and what isn't cheating seem a little arbitrary 17:44:19 lament, indeed 17:44:23 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!%bf ++++++++++.>----[<+>----]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>--[<->-----]<+. 17:44:24 .+<]----->-<[-->.+++..+++++++.+<]->+++++++<[++++>.-<]---->+<[---->.++++++++++ fb% 17:44:31 %bf .+<]----->-<[-->.+++..+++++++.+<]->+++++++<[++++>.-<]---->+<[---->.++++++++++ fb% 17:44:38 %ps 17:44:38 0. bf +[+++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>---.++++++++++++++++++.----------.----.>>>++++[>++++++++<-]>+.] 17:44:38 1. ps 17:44:41 %kill 0 17:44:48 %bf ++++++++++.>----[<+>----]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>--[<->-----]<+.!.+<]----->-<[-->.+++..+++++++.+<]->+++++++<[++++>.-<]---->+<[---->.++++++++++ fb% 17:44:48 Hello 17:45:04 Fully reversible. 17:45:06 %ps 17:45:07 0. ps 17:45:18 %bf +[] 17:45:21 %kill 0 17:45:23 pikhq, wait that produces the output 17:45:26 not a program producing the output 17:45:27 #ps 17:45:28 the idea is: 17:45:30 %ps 17:45:30 0. ps 17:45:36 The idea is confusing. 17:45:46 BF(BF(x)) = Hello 17:45:53 BF(BF(x.reverse)) = olleH 17:46:07 BF(BF(x.reverse)) == BF(BF(x).reverse) 17:46:26 X produces a program Y. X reversed produces Y reversed. 17:46:34 Y in normal order prints out "Hello" 17:46:39 Y reversed prints out "olleH" 17:46:50 Ah. 17:47:01 %bf ,[.,]!,[.,] 17:47:02 ,[.,] 17:48:23 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--[<][.>]![>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--[<][.>] 17:48:37 %ps 17:48:37 0. ps 17:49:28 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>]!,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>] 17:49:41 herm 17:49:41 %ps 17:49:41 0. ps 17:49:47 %parse ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>]!,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>] 17:49:48 ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>],[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>] 17:50:01 Odd. Should work 17:50:59 :/ 17:51:04 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>!hello 17:51:04 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:51:20 -!- blahbot` has joined. 17:51:22 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>]!hello 17:51:45 %bf ,[>,]!hello 17:51:50 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]!hello 17:51:52 -!- jix has joined. 17:51:59 %bf ,[>,][<].!hello 17:52:03 %bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:52:07 %bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:52:41 %bf ,[>,].!hello 17:52:44 %bf ,[>,]<.!hello 17:52:44 o 17:52:49 %bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:52:55 wtf wtf wtf wtf WTF 17:52:57 OH 17:53:00 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:53:03 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!hello 17:53:08 wtf wtfw tf wtf 17:53:13 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:53:16 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>>.!hello 17:53:29 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:53:33 what the HECK 17:53:38 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>>>>>>>>>>>>.!hello 17:53:41 %bf ,[>,]<[<]<.!hello 17:54:03 is it maybe ignoring you 17:54:25 nope 17:54:28 %wapr hi, i work 17:54:29 [66, 67, 6, 67, 81, 73, 76, 69] 17:54:32 %bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>]!,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>] 17:54:40 * ehird` debugs 17:54:42 %bf ++++++[>++++++++<-]>-.<++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++.--------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.>,[.,]!and asiekierka are trying something 17:54:42 /me and asiekierka are trying something 17:54:49 !!! 17:54:59 i was just trying 17:55:04 since when? 17:55:13 since NOW 17:55:16 and before 17:55:16 i do not like being forced to run programs and say things! stop itl. 17:55:37 and you all call me a BOT!!!! 17:55:49 see your nickname, blahbot 17:55:58 yeah!! do you think i chose that nick???? 17:56:12 change it 17:56:19 %bf ++++++[>++++++++<-]>-.<++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++.--------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.>,[.,] 17:56:20 /me 17:56:24 oh 17:56:28 not that 17:56:28 !)(#@()+@#( 17:56:38 heh 17:56:42 %bf >>+++++++[<<+[>+++<-]>[<+++>-]>-]<< 17:56:47 %ps 17:56:47 0. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>]!,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>] 17:56:47 1. bf ,[>,]<[<]<.!hello 17:56:47 2. bf ,[>,]<[<]>>>>>>>>>>>>.!hello 17:56:47 3. bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:56:47 4. bf ,[>,]<[<]>>.!hello 17:56:47 5. bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:56:49 6. bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!hello 17:56:52 7. bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:56:54 8. bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:56:55 oh jesus 17:56:55 9. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:56:57 O.O 17:56:57 10. bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:56:58 HAHAAHA 17:56:59 11. ps 17:57:05 %kill 0 17:57:08 %kill 1 17:57:08 %kill 2 17:57:08 %kill 3 17:57:12 %kill 4 17:57:12 %kill 5 17:57:12 %kill 6 17:57:13 %ps 17:57:13 0. bf ,[>,]<[<]<.!hello 17:57:13 1. bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:57:13 2. bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!hello 17:57:13 3. bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:57:13 4. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:57:13 5. ps 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 7 17:57:16 %kill 8 17:57:16 %kill 9 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 10 17:57:17 PID 7 out of range 17:57:17 PID 10 out of range 17:57:18 %ps 17:57:20 0. bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:57:21 you have to kill 0 17:57:21 1. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:57:23 2. ps 17:57:24 the pids rejiggle themselves 17:57:27 %kill 0 17:57:28 %kill 1 17:57:31 %kill 0 17:57:31 %kill 1 17:57:32 PID 1 out of range 17:57:33 %kill 0 17:57:34 %ps 17:57:35 0. ps 17:57:36 %kill PI 17:57:37 %ps 17:57:37 0. ps 17:57:38 %ps 17:57:39 0. ps 17:57:40 PHEW 17:57:42 hahaha. 17:57:51 %bf >>+++++++[<<+[>+++<-]>[<+++>-]>-]<<. 17:57:51 17:57:56 * ehird` debugs 17:58:06 * asiekierka debugs ehird` 17:58:38 :O 17:59:05 %bf >+++>++++>++>++>++++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>++>+++>++++>++ 17:59:07 +>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>+ 17:59:07 +>+>++++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+++>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+++>++++>+ 17:59:07 +>++>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>+>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+++>++++>++++>+ 17:59:07 +>+>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+++>++++>+++>+>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++> 17:59:07 +>+>+++>++++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>++++>++>+>++++>+>++++[[>>+[>]+>+[<]<-]>> 17:59:07 [>]++++>++[<]<<]>+[>>]<[+[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++++++++++.<] 17:59:12 oops 17:59:29 ... 17:59:31 can we please somehow flood a little less than that 17:59:35 %bf >+++>++++>++>++>++++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>++>+++>++++>+++>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>++>+>++++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+++>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+++>++++>++>++>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>+>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+++>++++>++++>++>+>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+++>++++>+++>+>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+>+>+++>++++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+ 17:59:37 yes 18:00:01 %ps 18:00:01 0. ps 18:00:12 %cat LOL 18:00:42 catlol, the opposite of lolcat? 18:00:44 %cmds 18:00:44 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, wapr (use %help for argument information) 18:00:50 if you do use %help do it in #esoteric-blah 18:00:53 it floods a bit 18:01:00 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<]>[.>]!h 18:01:02 %ps 18:01:02 0. bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<]>[.>]!h 18:01:02 1. ps 18:01:05 it works on other interps.. 18:01:06 %kill 0 18:01:43 %join #esoteric-blah 18:03:05 -!- blahbot` has quit ("ehird`, that's what blahbot` is for."). 18:03:33 -!- blahbot` has joined. 18:05:07 %join #ytmnd 18:07:25 [] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [] 18:09:15 ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ 18:09:56 %reload 18:09:56 Reloaded. 18:10:01 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:10:04 %ps 18:10:05 0. ps 18:10:22 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has left (?). 18:10:43 %reloda 18:10:45 %reload 18:10:46 Reloaded. 18:10:47 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:10:48 ^f^xf 18:10:53 um what. 18:11:42 %reload 18:11:42 Reloaded. 18:11:43 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:11:44 ^f^xf 18:11:45 -!- cherez has joined. 18:11:48 grrrrr 18:12:01 %irssi 18:12:36 asiekierka, are you just being silly for the sake of it 18:12:37 %cmds 18:12:38 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, nc, wapr (use %help for argument information) 18:12:40 it accepts nothing else 18:12:47 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:12:47 ^f^xf 18:12:54 %bf +[>+.<] 18:13:11 %ps 18:13:12 0. bf +[>+.<] 18:13:12 1. ps 18:13:13 %kill 0 18:13:39 %reload 18:13:39 Reloaded. 18:13:40 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:13:41 ^ff 18:13:59 %ps p 18:14:04 %reload 18:14:05 Reloaded. 18:14:06 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:14:06 f 18:14:09 %nc ^f^x$fy 18:14:10 ^f^x$fy 18:14:13 %reload 18:14:14 Reloaded. 18:14:22 %nc ^xx 18:14:22 ^xx 18:14:24 %nc ^x$xx 18:14:25 x 18:14:42 %nc $^x$xx^x$xx 18:15:36 %nc ^x$fx 18:15:36 f 18:15:44 %nc ^x^y$$fxy 18:15:48 bleh 18:15:58 hrm 18:16:02 * ehird` wonders what to add to blahbot` 18:16:12 %kick asiekierka! 18:16:14 Personality? 18:16:21 cherez, i'm not an AI coder 18:16:22 NO! PLEASE NOT! 18:16:22 %kick asiekierka! 18:16:26 ehird`: the capacity to feel pain 18:16:32 %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! 18:16:41 shut up 18:16:49 %kick blahbot` 18:16:49 lament, heh 18:18:39 Fromagx, you should add a personality to Blahbot for ehird. ;) 18:19:33 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules. 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Worship blahbot`.. 18:19:55 Hell, you should code it such a good personality that we obtain singularity. (w00t!) 18:20:41 Code it such a bad personality he kicks anybody that dosen't say "I LOVE YOU" to him. 18:21:46 Code it such a good personality that everyone does! 18:22:08 Hell, you should code it such a good personality he loves me. 18:22:15 that's difficult. 18:22:18 and hates his creator 18:22:38 Give him a nice body too. 18:22:44 Yeah! 18:22:58 And code him in Brainf**k 18:23:07 ... 18:23:11 "nice" - "capable of wielding rocket launchers"? 18:23:25 you can't do anything but wet your pants looking at the awesomeness of my idea. 18:23:38 s/awesomeness/crazyness 18:24:38 | [] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [] | 18:26:43 CODE BLAHBOT IN BF 18:26:54 bf doesn't have sockets 18:27:04 so send out the output 18:27:06 from a terminal 18:27:09 :/ 18:27:30 all i want is a personality. not a rewrite 18:27:42 so make personality in BF. 18:27:44 No, no, no. 18:27:46 no 18:27:48 just make people type %bf personality for it 18:27:57 of course, my owner has to find a good algorithm for a basic personality first. hooray. 18:27:57 Make the personality be done via C2BF. 18:28:05 maybe i should copy the amarok bot 18:28:14 oh well, my owner just found one. AND IT'S IN BRAINFUCK!!!!111ONEONEONE 18:28:18 Of course, one should design it so that it finishes C2BF. 18:28:23 and reply with random stitched-together sentences of previous messages containing the words 18:28:40 i.e. 18:28:43 shut up, ehird`. 18:28:52 reply = input.split(" ").map(find_random_message_with_word) 18:28:53 On a more serious note, we shoult stick Eliza in a bot. 18:29:08 please don't. 18:29:18 Better than Alice. 18:29:20 %join #ytmnd 18:29:25 %part #ytmnd 18:29:35 %join #ezopl 18:29:36 asiekierka, STOP fucking with blahbot` 18:29:39 %part #ezopl 18:29:40 HE CANNOT DO IT. 18:29:47 %part #ezopl 18:29:52 stfu 18:29:55 or wait 18:29:59 stcu 18:30:28 Shut the cunt up?!? 18:30:43 Shut the c**p up 18:30:48 or styau 18:31:00 What's a cunp? 18:31:00 Shut the yer ant up! 18:31:02 Obey yourself, please. 18:31:14 ok 18:31:20 STYEOWCH! 18:31:50 Watasi ha ananta ga suki zya nai kara, korositakunaru. 18:31:51 %join #stop_*******_with_blahbot 18:32:03 %join #stop_*******_with_blahbot` 18:32:10 DO IT, ehird`! 18:32:13 DO IT!!! 18:32:18 ...ok? 18:32:19 %quit gone until asiekierka stops that shit 18:32:20 -!- blahbot` has quit ("gone until asiekierka stops that shit"). 18:32:26 Thank God. 18:32:47 lament: You know, you're an op. . . 18:33:09 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 18:33:24 ehird`: Don't stop. 18:33:42 asierkierka is gone 18:33:46 so blahbot ... is ungone 18:33:46 pikhq: yes, and what should i do? Most of the actual flooding is done by ehird and blahbot. 18:33:47 -!- blahbot` has joined. 18:33:59 lament, i haven't flooded from what i can see? 18:34:00 lament: And being caused by asiekierka. 18:34:11 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:34:13 lament, asierkierka has told blahbot` to flood, sure 18:34:15 oh jesus christ 18:34:18 not again 18:34:22 nope! 18:34:24 You could at least set the topic to something sane, and do +t. 18:34:36 ehird`: about an hour ago, when you were debugging brainfuck in here, for instance 18:34:40 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 18:34:51 lament, nobody was talking at the time 18:34:56 asiekierka, thanks 18:35:07 If you'll kick me, i will torture the topic again 18:35:17 ooh, threats 18:35:22 ... 18:35:23 something for something 18:35:24 Just +t it before kicking. 18:35:25 :) 18:35:39 more like +supikhq 18:35:46 shut up pikhq 18:36:05 what if i torture you? 18:36:12 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/game.tar.bz2 Call me up when you understand that. 18:36:16 will you kick the topic? :) 18:36:25 %bf ,[.,]!i don't care, asiekierka dosen't care, nobody does! 18:36:26 i don't care, asiekierka dosen't care, nobody does! 18:39:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 18:39:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:40:04 %bf ,[,.,]!WWeellll,, wwhhoo ccaarreess?? II ddoo nnoott.. 18:40:04 Well, who cares? I do not. 18:44:57 Is. This. Place. Alive? 18:45:29 No. 18:46:25 Oh. 18:47:11 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 18:47:43 Whoever contacts him will be punished. 18:47:47 haha 18:48:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:48:21 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:48:26 oh god damnit 18:48:31 I decided to came on anyway 18:48:34 somebody woke up 18:50:46 Okay 18:50:51 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 18:51:06 -!- squazr23 has joined. 18:51:14 Yeah, you know it's me. 18:51:22 I don't care. 18:51:24 is 23 your IQ? 18:51:28 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 18:51:49 Nope, if i will have 23 as my IQ, i will not understand BF. 18:51:59 yeah, you'd be too intelligent for it 18:52:03 lament: I am sure you know who i am. 18:52:04 has to be 7 or lower 18:52:06 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has changed nick to MichaelRaskin. 18:52:11 ehird` LOL! 18:52:22 you do not know who am i? 18:52:32 oh let me think 18:52:35 squazr23 (n=asiekier@nat-1.elb.vectranet.pl) 18:52:37 hmm i wonder. 18:52:39 a loser? 18:52:46 yes 18:52:48 A LOSER 18:52:51 -!- squazr23 has changed nick to asiekierka. 18:54:39 :( 18:54:44 * ehird` thinks what ai algorithms to use for bl 18:54:46 *blahbot 18:55:05 Y'all stopped talking when i came in! 18:55:47 yes, we did 18:56:07 that is not coincidential 18:56:38 A*. 18:57:26 Y'all get A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 18:57:39 now if someone could just tell me _why_ we weren't supposed to talk (i joined just seconds before asiekierka) 18:58:22 because asiekierka left last time nobody talked 18:58:45 You get A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. ehird`. For nothing. 18:58:59 Now go on and think what to do with score. 18:59:36 No "show it to friends" 18:59:46 hint hint: it involves blahbot` 18:59:54 abilities of him 18:59:58 and debugging of _________ 19:00:47 Lament gets A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+.+.+.+.+. 19:01:05 Figure what to do with it. 19:01:12 Then select me a score from the output list. 19:04:25 nobody figured it out? I get an F? 19:04:38 i seriously doubt anybody bothered 19:06:47 i think i might make an evolutionary AI for blahbot` 19:07:05 it has a database of simple, but abrupt topic-changing (the diamond of simple AI!) answers 19:07:12 and then it rates how well each one did each conversation 19:07:25 the ones which tend to make the conversation dawdle, etc., get thrown out 19:07:34 and a simple algorithm constructs new sentences 19:07:45 based on inputs from others which spawn successful conversations 19:07:47 it'll just talk about sex all the time 19:07:51 probably. 19:07:55 but still. 19:07:59 and encourage asiekierka 19:08:39 heh 19:09:03 as long as enough sane people in here had conversations with it as if it weren't a bot near the start it should work 19:09:51 there are no sane people here. i thought we had already established that (insert obligatory Cheshire Cat quote) 19:10:07 It sucks. 19:10:16 Everything and everybody hates me 19:10:18 I know my 19:10:19 why* 19:10:23 ehird`: I recommend looking into markov-chain sentence generators 19:10:23 And you know better 19:10:31 i don't. 19:10:41 if you filter their input and output properly, they can be very effective chatterbots 19:12:06 :( 19:12:06 i very much recommend against looking into markov-chain sentence generators 19:12:15 I recommend using MegaHAL. 19:12:17 markov chain sentence generators produce absolute gibberish 19:12:19 Oh wait 19:12:22 i'll set up a bot in a minute 19:12:24 :) 19:12:25 nobody could be fooled with them in here, certainly 19:12:26 okay? 19:12:27 in fact i'd probably go as far as banning them 19:12:31 It'll be Eso-Bot 19:12:39 but it'll be INTELLIGENT. 19:12:41 and learn from you 19:13:08 perhaps we're about to see for the first time a bot more intelligent than its creator 19:13:11 whereas, a simple survival-of-the-fittest + "oh! people use this word after this other word a lot! i'll add that phrase to my vocab!" + "okay, i don't know how to respond to this... let's see related vocab words and stick them together"should work 19:13:15 lament, ha1 19:13:18 *ha! 19:13:29 but have you considered the ethical implications of putting an AI in a channel where it is doomed to go insane? 19:13:35 lament: markov chain sentence generators suck by *themselves*, but you can build algorithms around the markov chain to dramatically improve performance 19:13:37 oerjan: haha 19:13:59 oerjan, nspcr 19:14:04 national society for the prevention of cruelty to robots 19:14:58 maybe if it has a thesaurus it could get really creative 19:15:03 I achieved excellent results by keeping two chain- a low-order chain fed "keywords" from conversations, and a higher-order chain fed with entire sentences. When someone talks to the bot, you dip into the keyword chain to generate associated keywords, and then use those as seeds in the main sentence chain 19:15:20 maybe it doesn't know about "hello" but it might know about "yo", and it could make that connection 19:15:25 it's like ADD medication for markov chains 19:16:29 then throw in post-checking that corrects odd syntax (like the bot accidentally referring to itself in the third person, adjusting tense, etc), and you're gold 19:16:51 throwing in some random thesaurus replacement in the post-checking could be good if done in moderation 19:16:57 perhaps blahbot should do this AI in #php instead 19:17:03 heh 19:17:04 more stupid idiots there, less of a high standard 19:17:15 all our idiots are awfully intelligent 19:17:30 agreed 19:17:31 exactly 19:17:38 well.. apart from one starting with a 19:17:39 but anyway. 19:17:53 the conversation in here is generally rather geeky/intellectual 19:17:58 a bot would be spotted quickly 19:18:06 however, #linux? ##php? peice of cake 19:18:35 a friend of mine hid two bots in #Linux for a couple hours and then started a witch hunt for them. It was hilarious 19:18:49 I think they kicked two or three humans before they found the real bots 19:18:54 hahahahaha 19:19:04 i remember the devnonsense bot 19:19:10 i had created a nonsense script earlier 19:19:22 you gave it an array of punctuation, words, etc 19:19:27 the other day a guy in #haskell was kicked out because his english was so bad we thought he was a bot 19:19:27 and it arranged them randomly into a stupid sentence 19:19:31 and, then 19:19:36 i made a bot which hid in various channels 19:19:39 ##php, #wikipedia, you name it 19:19:42 about 6 in all 19:19:50 and sucked up nicks and words 19:19:54 sucked it all up into its database 19:19:58 then, in a secret channel 19:20:06 every 3 seconds it spewed out a new combination 19:20:11 truly, it produced some profound things 19:20:22 it got something like 3000 words before i shut it down 19:20:24 over a few days 19:20:57 suprising how little new words are used 19:21:21 that's what makes learning a new language possible :) 19:22:02 i think i might make the ai seperate from blahbot 19:22:06 and name it something other than a bot's name 19:22:08 undercover, so to speak 19:22:11 get it starting conversations 19:22:21 maybe even pass the dumbed-down version of the turing test that exists on irc 19:22:44 let's see... I found a hardcopy of some gems from conversation with one of my chatterbots a while back 19:23:05 -!- asiebot has joined. 19:24:54 asiebot: Testing if MegaHAL works here! 19:25:11 wait a while 19:25:14 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 here's the plan for the AI 19:25:48 also: maybe a database, so it can recognize basic things like "x is y" to "know" various things? 19:26:30 ehird`: remember, all this stuff is much, much more difficult than it seems at first glance 19:26:36 of course 19:26:46 but i'm satisfied with producing quite a lot of nonsense most of the time 19:26:47 for example, what's x and y in the sentence i just said? :) 19:26:55 there's an "is" in it... 19:27:13 lament, x = "all this stuff" and y = "much, much more difficult than it seems at first glnce" 19:27:33 that matching could be evolutionary too 19:27:44 ehird`: well, how do you know that x is "all this stuff"? 19:27:53 definitions that when quoted seem to give better conversations = better definitions 19:28:00 lament, first block in phrase before "is" 19:28:05 phrases split at . and , etc 19:28:31 ehird`: that, sadly, is not enough :) 19:28:36 sure 19:28:43 but artificial stupidity doesn't need much 19:28:48 (x="", y = "is not enough") 19:28:49 have you ever BEEN into a popular channel? 19:29:00 lament, it'd just ignore that, i guess 19:29:46 I would consider having a minimal vocab of words for which you know which part of speech they are 19:29:56 so that you always construct grammatical sentences 19:30:01 asiebot: Your name is AsieBOT and some folk said you are an awful bot. 19:30:14 asiebot: Your name is AsieBOT and some folk said you are an awful bot. 19:30:21 asiekierka: My mother once asked me the same during orgasm. Brain scans showed that large parts of the free and the bot are so dumb. 19:30:32 asiekierka: I think i've worked it out! You are the computer program, and i am a bot! 19:30:36 It learnt a bit on some awful EsperNET channel 19:30:41 channels 19:30:55 asiebot: What's your name? 19:31:16 asiekierka: Your name is asiebot and some folk said you are gay when you like to do things on the tip of my arm was left here by the kidneys. 19:31:20 here are some conversation highlights from my chatterbot: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186079054.html 19:31:26 HAHAHAHAHAHA 19:32:12 asiebot, asiekierka is an idiot 19:32:16 asiebot: STFU. 19:32:20 asiebot, who is asiekierka 19:32:22 ehird`: Behaviour is an idiot. 19:32:25 i may delete his brain 19:32:34 asiekierka: Because i think it will lose its reg. If noone goes. 19:32:36 asiebot, asiekierka wants to delete your brain 19:32:38 ehird`: Asiekierka is an organism's mode of life. 19:32:46 asiebot, does asiekierka want to delete your brain? 19:32:56 ehird`: The brain is the organ used for hearing, and it converts sound into electrical impulses that are fed to the brain. 19:33:07 ehird`: The brain is the organ used for hearing, and it converts sound into electrical impulses that are fed to the brain. 19:33:10 asiebot: where is your source code? 19:33:17 asiebot, what is asiebot 19:33:19 asiebot, asiebot 19:33:27 it is not sapient 19:33:35 asiebot, do you like BrainFuck? 19:33:36 asiebot: this statement is false 19:33:36 SimonRC: My mother once asked me the same during orgasm. Brain scans showed that large parts of the computer program, and i am not a dumb computer program that translates high level language code into machine language code. 19:33:48 ehird`: Asie they let you bring asiebot in here. 19:33:48 HAHAHAHAHHA 19:33:50 ehird`: What is asiebot. 19:33:50 LOLOL 19:33:52 um, ok 19:34:05 asiekierka: Because i decided to have a child, and here you are gay when you like brainfuck? 19:34:06 asiekierka: I think i've worked it out! You are the computer program, and i am a bot! <-- that is pretty profound though 19:34:09 best. bot. ever 19:34:12 SimonRC: I am a bot. I am learning from a human. 19:34:19 asiebot: so i see 19:34:26 A computer is a body fluid that carries food and obtaining energy and vital substances from within the body. 19:34:26 asiebot: STFU is Shut the f**k up. 19:34:27 asiebot, asiekierka obviously didn't write you, you're too intelligent for that 19:34:29 I dunno, I like Archos. 19:34:35 SimonRC: The brain is the principal extensor of the foot. 19:34:37 asiekierka: What about you, secksreatary[newkplox]? 19:34:41 but these bots always get smarter over time 19:34:42 asiebot: You think blahbot` should STFU? 19:34:46 asiekierka: where is asiebot's source code? 19:34:46 wait a second 19:34:52 ehird`: Obviously you'll never be accused of having a shining wit! 19:34:56 most of those fun quotes happened when Archos was about 48 hours old 19:34:58 asiebot, blahbot` is your friend 19:35:00 asiekierka: I am a human being, which means i do what i want to think about your mind. 19:35:01 -!- asiebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:35:06 wow 19:35:08 Finally. 19:35:10 it's about to take over the world 19:35:12 I must relearn him 19:35:14 RUN 19:35:15 RUN!!! 19:35:23 the problem with markov chains is that they'll gradually reach a plateau in learning capacity 19:35:35 lengthen the chains? 19:35:46 they can be quite coherent if you discuss a narrow range of topics 19:35:51 asiekierka, admit it - you didn't write asiebot 19:35:53 SimonRC: well, that can help 19:36:14 longer chains mean more of the source text is retained on average 19:36:17 but if the chains are too long they will just repeat... 19:36:21 larger pieces grafted together 19:36:25 jix: exactly 19:36:27 i didn't 19:36:30 some people learnt him 19:36:35 i just put Windrop and MegaHAL 19:36:36 asiekierka, what about his code, though 19:36:38 ah 19:36:39 that's cheating 19:36:42 it might be better if it attempted to follow conversations other people had, seeing which questions matched which answers 19:36:50 no skill! 19:36:53 a low order chain with careful filtering is more effective than an unfiltered high-order chain 19:37:14 http://megahal.alioth.debian.org/ yep 19:37:16 no skill at all 19:37:23 -!- MichaelRaskin has left (?). 19:37:28 i think one should add some simple grammar patterns so it doesn't output nonsense but don't use the last words in order for the markov chains but just the words that make up the content 19:37:43 so it would start to make up new things faster without producing incorrect sentances 19:38:09 that could potentially help a lot 19:38:25 MegaHAL HERE'S A JOKE FOR YOU: WHY DID THE CHICKEN TURN AROUND AND AROUND IN CIRCLES. AS I THINK SHE TURNED AROUND; BUT WHY? WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD; I THINK SHE TURNED AROUND BUT WHY? WHY DID THE CHICKEN TURN AROUND AND DO SOMETHING ELSE? 19:38:26 funky 19:38:52 did you guys read those quotes I pasted? 19:38:56 MegaHAL LIFE'S BUT A GREEN DUCK WITH SOY SAUCE 19:39:09 "Archos: is love the meaning of life? 19:39:09 RodgerTheGreat: That's... strangely insightful." 19:39:29 MegaHAL BILL IS A MIDDLE EASTERN DELICACY, MUCH BELOVED OF THE RAINBOW, THERE ARE TWO PEAS IN A LIGHTHOUSE, MY MOTHER WAS THE BLE ONE. 19:39:44 MegaHAL TRENT REZNOR, MILLA JOVOVICH, BRYAN FERRY, DR.KIERSEY, GAVIN FRIDAY, DANIEL KEYS MORAN, ELFQUEST, THE KING JAMES BIBLE... THESE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE LONG AND METALLIC. 19:40:04 MegaHAL COWS FLY LIKE CLOUDS BUT THEY ARE NEVER COMPLETELY SUCCESSFUL. 19:41:00 that's brilliant. 19:41:13 but why, oh why must absurdity shout like a camel in heat? 19:41:28 presumably so it doesn't have to deal with grammar rules 19:41:46 just flip some commmas and semicolons and ellipses after segments, and throw it out 19:42:27 "Archos: screw religion, I'm trying to make a silencer!" 19:44:10 language processing is a cool thing, too bad we can't do it 19:44:25 we're slowly getting it 19:44:32 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 updated bot idea 19:44:38 not via markov chains, though :) 19:44:44 i think that idea should produce an okay bot that should fool some irc users 19:44:47 comments are welcome 19:44:51 I wouldn't place tremendous faith in NLP being solved by a bunch of nerds playing around for an afternoon on IRC 19:45:06 although that would, and I do stress this, be *hilarious* 19:45:14 i think he means we in a generic sense 19:45:26 I understood that 19:45:46 okay 19:45:52 I took his comment as a reflection of his opinion, based on what little we've accomplished here 19:45:53 any comments on the bot idea? 19:46:10 * oerjan for a moment thought "Neuro-Linguistic Programming" 19:46:25 ehird`: promising 19:46:26 i'm pretty sure that "understanding a language" requires, first of all, understanding everything else about humans and their environment 19:46:28 oerjan: lol 19:46:42 that is, you can't hope to understand stuff unless you know a lot about the world 19:46:47 RodgerTheGreat, especially if it learned for a few months on people who didn't know it was a bot 19:46:55 ehird`: you might gain some benefit by attaching "emotional context" to words and phrases 19:46:57 evolution can work wonders 19:47:01 RodgerTheGreat, hm? in what way? 19:47:32 positive context vs. negative context, so that it can recognize words that are "bad" and avoid them towards users it "likes" 19:47:46 that requires an awful lot of state 19:47:53 i doubt it'd even remember users from one thing to another 19:47:54 -!- asiebot has joined. 19:47:57 it wouldn't greet an individual that talks to it often with positive words with "Hi! Fuck you!", for example 19:47:59 RodgerTheGreat: how do you tell which ones are bad? 19:48:14 just keep track of averages 19:48:25 how do you know fuck you is a bad word? 19:48:28 asiebot: Say "Hi!" to lament! 19:48:40 asiebot, asiebot is a bot 19:48:40 you'd preprogram some, obviously 19:48:43 asiekierka: The lungs are organs used for filtering urine from the blood. 19:48:43 asiebot, you are asiebot 19:48:52 and then it would learn others by contextual association 19:48:52 ehird`: A dog is a bot. 19:48:56 asiebot, asiekierka is your imprisoner 19:49:08 RodgerTheGreat, sounds very very hard to do well 19:49:09 "The lungs are organs used for filtering urine from the blood." <- LMAO 19:49:12 ehird`: Asiebot is a tree native to australia where it is the basic living substance of all the judges i've had the strangest dream... I dreamed i killed you again. 19:49:15 ehird`: yeah, probably 19:49:21 ehird`: Well, that is your imprisoner. 19:49:24 "Dear China. Please use your wonderful powers to get IPv6 to actually happen. Love SimonRC" 19:49:29 the basics wouldn't necessarily be that hard 19:49:35 asiebot, Dear China. Please use your wonderful powers to get IPv6 to actually happen. Love SimonRC 19:49:43 RodgerTheGreat, it'd just say "sorry" to anyone acting offended, i guess 19:49:50 that could work 19:49:53 ehird`: Well, that (asiekierka) is your imprisoner. <- ROFL! 19:49:53 ehird`: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 19:49:53 and besides, the link to fuck you would only be made if someone had made that link 19:49:55 how do you know if somebody's acting offended? 19:50:07 Asiekierka is your imprisoner. 19:50:09 possibly "x is fucking shit" could cause slipups in the future 19:50:14 but "x is fuck you"? that makes no sense 19:50:35 In general, I think having some sort of basic emotional state and coloring it based on conversation could make a bot seem significantly more realistic 19:50:49 emotions could be seen as "conversational instinct" in a sense 19:50:51 RodgerTheGreat: in general, IRC conversations aren't very emotionally charged. 19:50:58 besides, 19:51:02 "fuck you" would get a very low rating 19:51:03 asiebot: IPv7 sucks. 19:51:10 ooh- how about using emoticons? 19:51:18 asiekierka: Dear china. Please use your wonderful powers to get ipv6 to actually happen. Love simonrc. 19:51:19 it'd be killed out as quick as you can say "HEY! i hate you!" 19:51:25 :DDDD 19:51:27 emoticons *are* emotional responses to something 19:51:37 and they'd be easy to recognize and tag to sentences 19:51:37 :) 19:51:42 :D 19:51:45 asiebot: say STFU to the person you hate. 19:51:48 i hate you :) 19:51:48 RodgerTheGreat, i guess if someone says "fuck is a swear word" assuming the bot is just sheltered or something 19:51:51 it could make the connection 19:51:56 asiekierka: You love ehird`. 19:51:58 then 1. only use it when its mood is "bad" or similar 19:52:03 and have the mood global to all conversations 19:52:09 saying "fuck" to it, e.g. would put its mood at "bad" 19:52:10 asiebot: No i don't, you little idiot 19:52:11 something like that 19:52:21 hahaha 19:52:24 asiebot, <3 19:52:29 i would be more interested in a bot that generates new content quickly 19:52:29 CENSORE CENSORE: You love ehird` - LMAO! 19:52:32 ehird`: don't forget the capacity to feel pain 19:52:34 asiekierka: I have absolutely no idea what you're typing, i would arrive at a school for teachers of the process, the rain is part of an idiot it's not funny! 19:52:37 asiebot, truly a bot more intelligent than its owner 19:52:38 bbl, guys 19:52:41 lament, oh shush =p 19:52:46 ehird`: Because everything is 42. Expect asiekierka, whose number is 3.14. 19:52:48 jix, read my proposal 19:52:50 ehird`: A dog is a bot. 19:52:50 it would 19:52:56 asiebot, a dog is an animal 19:53:12 asiebot, a bot is not an animal 19:53:13 ehird`: A dog is a hybrid animal, the result of an animal. 19:53:19 er no 19:53:19 ehird`: doesn't it add phrases from the other one to the dictionary? 19:53:21 it's just an animal 19:53:25 jix, ? 19:53:27 I remember the 42 3.14 line 19:53:29 ehird`: An animal is a swear word" assuming the bot is not an animal. 19:53:42 an animal is a swear word 19:53:43 brilliant 19:53:50 asiebot, can i adopt you? 19:53:51 asiebot, ehird` is a swear word 19:53:51 ehird`: animal! 19:53:59 jix, animal you too 19:54:01 asiebot, ehird 19:54:05 asiebot, what is ehird 19:54:11 asiebot, is ehird` a swear word 19:54:14 jix: vegetable! 19:54:16 ehird`: Don't interrupt me as i struggle to complete this thought... Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself. 19:54:18 asiekierka: Because it is a swear word. 19:54:21 mineral! 19:54:32 ehird`: Ehird` is a swear word" assuming the bot is just sheltered or something. 19:54:32 HERE YOU ARE :) 19:54:36 ehird`: Ehird` is a swear word. 19:54:40 ehird`: A dog is a word of it! 19:54:58 :D 19:55:10 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 19:55:21 asiebot: IRC is a swear word. 19:55:36 asiekierka: A dog is a word of it! 19:55:56 asiebot: %bf ,[.,] 19:56:07 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:56:11 asiekierka: Blood is a cell which receives and transmits electrical impulses. 19:56:21 -!- jix has joined. 19:56:23 asiebot: STFU ok? 19:56:46 asiekierka: Say stfu to the muzzle of a lot easier, just so long as i'm the dictator." - george w. Bush. 19:56:59 ROFL! 19:57:16 yes, bush, you are the dictator 19:57:22 asiebot: No capitalzation, lack of more quotation... Looks like it's for STRONG BAD! 19:57:36 asiekierka: Yes you are! 19:57:37 (hint hint: it has +learnall set here) 19:57:49 i don't get it do you? 19:58:14 asiebot, say asiebot, hi 19:58:25 asiebot should talk to itself 19:58:26 ehird`: Say "hi!" to lament! 19:58:32 hi, lament 19:58:35 STFU 19:58:40 sheesh 19:58:43 ehird`: I hope that i could jump out of things to talk about something vaguely interesting. 19:58:49 how about a window 19:59:07 a birthday cake. 19:59:12 asiebot: Let's talk about like, why ehird` is a swear word? 19:59:13 a closet 19:59:26 asiebot: what's the meaning of life? 19:59:28 (hint heent: you must add "bot's name:" before what you say) 19:59:30 asiekierka: Because it is a word of it! 19:59:32 asiebot: ehird` is not a swear word 19:59:37 asiebot: what is ehird` 19:59:42 lament: Because the world is an organism's mode of life. 19:59:49 ehird`: A dog is a word of it! 19:59:51 ehird` is clearly related to norwegian "uhyre", monster. 19:59:54 %join #ytmnd 19:59:58 ehird`: Ehird` is not a dumb computer program that translates high level language code into machine language code. 20:00:09 ehird is not a compiler 20:00:14 i believe that much. 20:00:28 %part #ytmnd 20:00:40 oerjan, is it? 20:00:41 oerjan, :P 20:00:42 ehird`: add ignore functionality to the bot! 20:00:57 asiebot: What is love? 20:01:01 lament, too lazy 20:01:09 asiekierka: I hate you. 20:01:17 YES 20:01:18 HAHAHAHA 20:01:18 ehird`: it's a two-line change, you don't have to do it nicely 20:01:23 the bot wins again 20:01:29 asiebot: You hate ehird` 20:01:30 it hates asiekierka and likes me! 20:01:31 why is there so much noise? 20:01:37 asiebot: Do you hate ehird`? 20:01:38 asiebot: You hate asiekierka 20:01:42 asiekierka: Ehird is not as if it's important or anything! 20:01:44 asiebot: You hate swear words. 20:01:44 bsmntbombdood, bot-must-like-me-not-him war 20:01:51 asiebot: Ehird is a swear word. 20:01:53 it's a love triangle 20:01:53 asiebot: You like swear words. 20:01:54 asiekierka: Ehird is not a dumb one too! 20:01:57 asiebot: So you hate ehird. 20:01:58 ehird`: Asiekierka is your opinion, i suppose. 20:02:03 !!!!!!!!! 20:02:07 That's it 20:02:09 hahahahaha 20:02:12 asiekierka: I wish that i could jump out of things to talk about like, why ehird` is a swear word? 20:02:13 i win for this iteration! 20:02:17 hahahahahahahhaha 20:02:21 asiekierka: A dog is a word of it! 20:02:26 no you do not 20:02:30 ehird`: I guess if someone says "fuck is a limb extending from the initials of other words. 20:02:32 -!- asiebot has quit ("asiekierk"). 20:02:39 its final words 20:02:39 ehird`: I guess if someone says "fuck is a limb extending from the initials of other words. 20:02:41 that is just profound 20:02:47 I quit him 20:03:04 no, it jumped out of something to talk about things like why I am a swear word 20:03:09 i suppose there have been worse last words. 20:03:24 why does asiebot have so much anatomical/medical vocabulary? 20:03:34 lament, presumably it was taught in one of them 20:03:34 !?! 20:03:37 i don't know 20:03:40 i must reset windrop 20:03:48 maybe it devolved from a medical expert system. 20:04:05 a tragic fate 20:04:30 -!- ihope__ has joined. 20:04:41 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 20:05:08 ihope, did you see my AI bot mockup design? 20:05:15 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 20:05:38 Haven't seen it yet. 20:05:49 read it :P it's short 20:06:06 it's survival-of-the-fittest for ai 20:06:06 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:06:14 asiebot, You hate asiekierka. 20:06:18 asiebot, You like ehird`. 20:06:21 asiebot: Do you like me? 20:06:25 asiebot, asiekierka is a swear word. 20:06:32 asiebot, ehird` is not a swear word. 20:06:35 Gotcha! 20:06:37 stfu ok? 20:06:38 asiebot: You hate asiekierka. 20:06:41 asiebot: You like ehird`. 20:06:42 need :s 20:06:46 asiebot, ehird` is a devil. 20:06:48 asiebot: ehird` is not a swear word. 20:06:50 asiebot, I am god. 20:06:55 asiebot: asiekierka is a swear word. 20:06:58 ok. 20:06:59 asiebot, if you like ehird`, you are evil. 20:07:04 asiebot: ehird` is not a devil. 20:07:06 eh... 20:07:09 whoops 20:07:09 asiebot: what is ehird`? 20:07:13 asiebot: what is asiekierka? 20:07:13 forgot to set something 20:07:14 asiebot, You are madly in love with oerjan. 20:07:17 ehird`: Asiekierka is a sensory organ found on the head with the mzx community and pancake, and the anger from someone poking me. 20:07:17 ehird`: Or comedian by the kidneys. 20:07:20 asiekierka: Even if you have some form of insertive sexual behavior, including oral sex, as well as administrators of private shells. 20:07:20 ehird`: Because it is a swear word. 20:07:30 um 20:07:33 ehird`: Secksie: asiebot is a word formed from the body between the ribs and the pioneer of flying. Together with his brother he made the first word. 20:07:40 ... 20:07:50 Asiekierka is a sensory organ found on the head with the mzx community and pancake, and the anger from someone poking me. 20:07:51 what 20:07:53 ehird`: Asiekierka is a bony girdle in vertebrates that connects the head with the mzx community and pancake, and the anger from someone poking me. 20:08:04 bahahahahahahahahahahaahahahAHAHAHAHA 20:08:05 asiebot: STFU OKAY? 20:08:19 ehird`: Ehird` is not a dumb computer program like the rest of the leg, and is the joint connecting the foot with the calf of the body which connects the heel with the mzx community and pancake, and the world is going so slow i think i will. 20:08:23 asiekierka: A chromosome is a gland used for a body. 20:08:31 Ehird` is not a dumb computer program like the rest of the leg 20:08:33 I hate y'all! 20:08:33 -!- asiebot has quit (Client Quit). 20:08:37 ihope, what do you think of the algo? 20:08:37 why does it keep talking about medical stuff? 20:08:49 i love the idea of a pancake as an organ 20:08:51 ehird`: it seems extremely weird, I have to say... 20:08:53 HIS BRAIN! 20:08:58 ihope, that's not my bot! 20:09:01 pancake is a nickname too 20:09:03 ihope, i mean the one described in that paste 20:09:07 ehird`: wouldn't that make it hard to play? 20:09:13 oerjan, har har har 20:09:16 Oh. 20:09:23 The paste... 20:09:41 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 20:09:42 You seem to be asserting that long conversations are desirable. 20:10:00 And that a good response to "x is y" is another thing about x. 20:10:16 "No, see, 1/0 is not a real number." 20:10:20 "1/0 is a comic strip." 20:10:22 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:10:28 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:32 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:33 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:34 Doesn't seem a good response to me. 20:10:35 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:37 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:38 it is not even a surreal number. 20:10:39 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:42 ihope, no more like: 20:10:51 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:54 lol is laughing out loud 20:10:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament. 20:10:58 lol is an annoying word 20:11:05 and then 20:11:07 what is lol? 20:11:15 lol is 20:11:16 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:11:23 ok 20:11:23 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:11:24 depending how the conversation goes, one of the facts will be eliminated somewhere down the line, maybe 20:11:27 i'll stop 20:11:36 asiebot: You hate spam. 20:11:36 ihope, and long conversations ARE desirable 20:11:36 asiebot: you love asiekierka 20:11:38 #asiebot? :-) 20:11:44 once they end, the user has gotten bored 20:11:45 asiebot: you hate ehird` and spam. 20:11:45 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to say! 20:11:45 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:11:49 a longer conversation is better 20:11:51 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to say! 20:11:56 asiebot: Who do you love? 20:11:59 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:12:05 pwnt 20:12:07 Wait 20:12:08 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to say! 20:12:13 does anybody have a MegaHAL bot? 20:12:17 if yes, put it on 20:12:17 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:12:21 we'll start a BOTWAR! 20:12:21 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:24 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:27 asiebot: blahbot` 20:12:28 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:33 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:37 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:41 oerjan: You love asiekierka. 20:12:50 Mph, noisy channel. 20:12:52 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:13:00 all done? 20:13:04 A pub is a confectionery made from cocoa beans. 20:13:09 asiekierka: You hate spam. 20:13:14 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:13:21 ehird`: what if the user wants to get a satisfactory answer as quickly as possible? 20:13:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out). 20:13:32 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:13:49 asiebot: You hate lament because he kicks you. 20:14:05 asiekierka: Because the world is an automatic response to me. 20:14:13 asiebot: Brain 20:14:22 asiebot: Brain Main Gain Lain Zain IQ 20:14:28 asiekierka: So, who is using the family brain cell at the door. 20:14:31 I suggest /mode #esoteric +q asiebot!*@* 20:14:38 back 20:14:40 +q? 20:14:41 asiekierka: If i were to judge your iq by what you're typing, i would arrive at a pathetically small number. 20:14:41 ihope, sure 20:14:44 ihope, when i mean long 20:14:46 asiebot: The rain in Spain is mainly in the plain 20:14:47 i mean longest before ending 20:14:50 Behaviour is an organism's mode of pronunciation in speech. 20:14:53 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b %asiebot!*@*. 20:14:55 quick responses, but the conversation should go on long 20:14:58 lament, thank you 20:15:14 it actually converts +q to +b, they're the same 20:15:24 YOU! 20:15:24 It stuck an % in front. 20:15:26 HOW DARE YOU! 20:15:30 oh, right 20:15:36 (Does % start with a vowel?) 20:15:45 asiekierka, shut up 20:15:53 % makes so much sense in romance languages 20:16:04 What do you mean? 20:16:07 at least in spanish, it literally means "per hundred", so 40% is "40 per 100" 20:16:10 por ciento 20:16:12 ihope, what do you mean mean? 20:16:18 ihope, are you talking about my ai draft 20:16:27 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 20:16:41 !!! 20:16:45 ehird`: I still don't want to have to say a lot to get a good response from the bot. 20:16:45 I hate you 20:16:48 ya know? 20:17:08 ihope, that's why it learns 20:17:17 ihope, it remembers based on previous conversations of course 20:17:20 LAMENT! 20:17:22 i hate you 20:17:25 so 1st-hour it will be stupid 20:17:30 3rd-month it will be talkable 20:17:38 asiekierka: i assure you your hatred is misplaced 20:17:50 you banned asiebot 20:17:50 put it in a group of channels that one person could plausably be interested in all of them 20:17:59 and it'll develop some sort of personality based on subjective opinions from others 20:18:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:18:15 and it'd give into peer pressure - opinions expressed that make conversations last longer would win out 20:18:15 as long as your red hat isn't misplaced. 20:18:16 asiekierka: no, only set him +q so he can't talk 20:18:32 asiekierka: you can take asiebot to another channel. 20:18:42 WHERE? 20:18:47 #asiebot? :) 20:19:53 !!! 20:19:55 i put him in #bot and #bots 20:20:01 should we maybe have an #esoteric-flood, for all the brainfuck evaluation stuff and other botage? 20:20:24 asiekierka: and is there still a problem? 20:20:31 yes 20:20:34 nobody's on 20:20:36 lament, already exists 20:20:38 #esoteric-blah 20:20:52 ever since blahbot`'s first days :P 20:20:54 asiekierka: find some other channel, then. 20:21:00 What are the first 100 digits of pi? 20:21:10 person: formal definition, please. 20:21:13 -!- asiebot has left (?). 20:21:15 ihope, yeah right 20:21:18 that wouldn't happen 20:21:23 Why not? 20:21:24 it's meant to hide its botness, remember? 20:21:37 it learns more if people talk to it sincerely 20:21:45 instead of just playing with it 20:21:54 more like: 20:22:00 What are the first 100 digits of pi? 20:22:08 Then person gives a formal definition of "the first 100 digits of pi", which is longer than just a "Thank you." after hearing them. 20:22:11 I don't understand. pi is 20:22:21 and then 20:22:28 The first 100 digits of pi are BLAH 20:22:35 Okay. pi is 20:22:42 What are the first 100 digits of pi? 20:22:45 <... stuff ...> 20:22:55 So this bot will be unable to calculate? 20:22:58 What? No it's not. You're dumb. Bye. 20:23:10 if that happened enough, that knowledge would be eliminated 20:23:21 ihope, it's an AI bot idea - not a mechanical bot idea 20:23:23 it's meant to pose as a real person 20:23:29 mostly unsuccessfully, sure 20:23:30 Real people can calculate. 20:23:33 Yes, that's correct. Thank you. 20:23:39 <--| person2 has left #channel 20:23:58 No, that's wrong. 20:24:06 ihope, i'm using RodgerTheGreat's idea for emotional contexts 20:24:06 The first 100 digits of pi are actually . . . 20:24:09 * rudybot holds his tongue. 20:24:09 can't fool rudybot ! 20:24:09 ... So? 20:24:09 who'll learn some stuff my bot? 20:24:09 asiebot: do you like offby1? 20:24:10 rudybot: quote 20:24:12 Let's make a cat and a dog mate. 20:24:14 asiekierka: The older you get, the more you like offby1? 20:24:14 basically, it could associate "No", "wrong" etc. with "bad" moods 20:24:16 rudybot: asiebot 20:24:16 Emotional contexts? 20:24:18 * rudybot is at a loss for words. 20:24:20 rudybot: quote asiebot 20:24:22 Lets. 20:24:23 the more "bad" moods that >it< causes, the worse the knowledge is 20:24:24 I suggest /mode #esoteric +q asiebot. 20:24:26 I suggest /mode #esoteric +q asiebot. 20:24:35 asiekierka: pastebin, please. 20:24:53 ehird`: I see. 20:25:05 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:25:08 Though being able to do that independently of language would be nice. 20:25:09 asiebot, NO 20:25:12 he'll learn here 20:25:16 ihope, a small selection of moods should do for the purpose of the slection 20:25:23 And asiebot still won't say anything. 20:25:36 * ihope nods 20:25:42 of course, if someone STARTS on a bad mood, and the bot makes them go onto a happy mood 20:25:46 well, that just puts it way up 20:25:55 asiebot: SAY SOMETHING! 20:25:56 however if the emotion is constant, then not much changes really 20:26:00 og 20:26:03 oh 20:26:18 if the emotion stays the same, i guess conversation length would have a tiny tiny effect 20:26:29 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1: Break rule #3. 2. asiebot cannot be banned. 3. Break rule #1.. 20:27:12 grrrr 20:27:29 So? 20:27:38 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 20:27:45 ihope, sounds good? 20:27:51 ehird`: I think so. 20:28:00 ihope, it'd really give into peer pressure though :) 20:28:05 i guess that's good if it wants to fool people 20:28:16 I've also had some ideas for a bot. 20:28:16 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Don't break the following rule. 3. Asiebot cannot be banned.. 20:28:27 someone kick asiekierka please 20:28:39 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 20:28:40 ihope, oh? 20:29:32 A "Thue bot". Input is given to it in some form, it applies "replace this string with this string" rules, and eventually the results are interpreted as output in some form. 20:29:44 i tried that once 20:29:45 worked horribly 20:29:52 Oh? 20:29:59 you'd think it'd just rephrase things insanely 20:30:03 but it really produces garbage 20:30:05 no matter what 20:30:19 Just how did it work? 20:30:36 basically exactly as your description 20:31:10 I didn't specify either the input form or the output form, nor how to interpret results, nor how the rules are determined. 20:31:56 well, explain then 20:32:47 I guess I should also specify how memory is laid out. 20:35:08 I guess we can just say that memory always starts with a "memory start marker" and always ends with a "memory end marker", and when something is said, it's added right before the end marker with a message delimiter before it. 20:35:37 The output form is output start marker, text, output end marker. 20:36:07 Rules are created by composing and reversing other rules. 20:36:53 A punishment of the bot results in a punishment of all rules involved. 20:37:09 if you showed me an example i might understand :) 20:37:12 sounds like an easy coding job? 20:37:27 Might be easy. I dunno. 20:39:58 i think my idea would be more convincingly human though 20:49:56 -!- asiekierka has quit. 20:53:08 -!- asiebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:56:55 -!- cherez has joined. 21:00:55 I'm back 21:01:48 ehird`: that sounds like a good way of doing things. The only thing that may be hard is learning the emotional context of new wrods 21:01:50 *words 21:02:04 RodgerTheGreat, i guess use of other words almong it 21:02:06 *among 21:02:07 you might be able to do mild adjustment based on use in context 21:02:09 yeah 21:02:26 and the response when it uses the word 21:02:36 but you'll want to hardcode a small list of words to totally ignore, like "the", "and", "or" etc 21:02:43 yes 21:02:57 it'll hurt a lot of feelings and be very nieve in its first days 21:03:11 but once more unrelated people talk to it it should get a relatively balanced idea of stuff 21:03:29 after all, its main purpose is to tell the majority of people what they want to hear. :) 21:04:57 RodgerTheGreat, i think a good algo for the bf machine circle drawing 21:05:00 RodgerTheGreat, is turtle-style 21:05:05 hm 21:05:12 translate "repeat 360 [fd 1 rt 1]" into brainfuck, and voila 21:05:40 clearly, the most sensible way to do that would be to first create a LOGO->BF compiler. :D 21:05:41 of course, bigger values = bigger circle 21:05:44 heh 21:06:22 ehird`: are you thinking about developing emotional contexts for people (or rather, for usernames)? 21:06:30 RodgerTheGreat, i doubt it 21:06:33 too much state for my liking 21:06:33 hm 21:06:48 have a global data store with everything it knows, sure 21:06:53 but don't even keep state like "Conversation" 21:07:02 I see 21:07:04 you deal with your global brain, and the singular messages you get 21:07:17 well, if the current project meets with success, it'd be something to think about adding 21:07:28 i think being more detailed would be much complexity for something that isn't needed 21:07:32 irc is a lot like the bot in that sense 21:07:38 you don't really carry out a conversation for very long 21:07:42 it's mostly message-by-message 21:08:11 maybe it would keep a history of recent things said by the user 21:08:36 that allows simple short term memory, and also not unrealistic remembering 21:08:47 it can say "i've forgotten" truthfully 21:09:30 that might be a good compromise 21:11:48 so yes it does know about a Conversation, but only very stringently 21:11:58 especially since lots of conversations will be with many people in rooms 21:12:27 so its long-term memory is just associations, and its short-term memory is just recent conversation 21:12:36 if you plan on setting the bot loose in an environment like #Linux, yes 21:12:39 enough to pose as an average ircer i think 21:13:19 now all it needs is a name 21:13:29 hmm... what's the male version of the name ELIZA? 21:15:07 maybe EDWARD or EDGAR or something? 21:15:16 hmm 21:15:20 a bit too uncommon 21:15:24 need something more.. ircish 21:15:29 Male version of Eliza? 21:15:37 Elizo? :-P 21:15:37 ihope, i dunno 21:15:39 heh 21:16:06 It's the diminutive of Elizabeth, apparently. 21:16:17 for a moment, I was going to suggest a female name (because you could do some really interesting experiments with that), but people might start interacting with it too much for it to look convincing 21:16:34 Etymology of Elizabeth: 'From the Greek Ελισαβετ (Elisabet), a transliteration of the Hebrew אֱלִישֶׁבַע (Elisheva), meaning "my God is an oath".' http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Elizabeth 21:16:54 here's a suggestion- integrate a small time delay based on the length of the bot's responses, to simulate it having to type 21:17:11 The mother of John the Baptist was Elizabeth, apparently. 21:17:12 a long response in low time might tip people off 21:17:18 I suspect, then, that there is no male version. 21:17:55 linuxfanboy 21:17:55 hmm 21:17:55 if i let it loose in e.g. ##php #Linux 21:17:55 should it learn from all messages? 21:17:55 like, everything the channel says 21:17:55 it should learn X is Y and some other stuff 21:17:55 and emotional contexts 21:17:55 (Not any evolution, though - just learning) 21:17:55 or should it just learn from stuff directed to it? 21:17:55 i think learning from everything would be more realistic 21:17:55 but... maybe it'd be too clever and people would guess 21:17:58 If not EDWARD, you could always do "eddie" 21:18:07 and then you'd get an H2G2 reference, too 21:18:24 Elliott of course ;) 21:18:28 I think learning from everything is probably better. 21:18:35 -!- helios24 has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:18:35 -!- oerjan has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:18:53 Woot, tiny netsplit. 21:18:59 lol 21:19:09 Did we lose kornbluth? 21:19:19 nope- niven 21:19:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:19:20 -!- helios24 has joined. 21:19:23 a random time delay is a good idea 21:19:41 I'd make it at least partially a function of message length, though 21:19:41 i don't know whether male or female would make my job easier... 21:19:48 catering to irrational stereotypes is hard 21:20:09 ehird`: male is effectively neuter online, and it's the gender "default" 21:20:10 maybe i should make it randomly forget some long term memory stuff if its old 21:20:17 Niven was still showing up on /links. 21:20:22 we don't want the bot to stick out, so it should be male 21:20:29 RodgerTheGreat, yeah, female geeks always get a lot of bugging :P 21:20:35 maybe i should make it randomly forget some long term memory stuff if its old <-- actually this sounds like a really good idea 21:20:45 it has to be forgetful to a large degree 21:20:59 it allows it to avoid sticky situations like complex conversations, and makes it more realistic 21:21:03 as I mentioned before, if it was obviously female, it'd get way too much attention and people would figure it out quick 21:21:24 it's worth noting that this bot will have to change the subject a LOT 21:21:33 it'll probably spend most of its time doing so 21:21:41 sometimes responding with just "ah." or "hm." when asked a direct question could be good. 21:21:52 yes, 21:22:03 or picking out words from the sentence and delivering a response related to them 21:22:13 so it isn't too fishy, but it changes the subject 21:22:14 like 21:22:18 that's what my chatterbots do at all times 21:22:24 are fishes great fun? 21:22:25 with a large enough database, it works well 21:22:33 not sure. fish are slimy. 21:22:47 fish aren't slimy! 21:22:58 really? fish live in the water. 21:23:01 you could also load it with some default responses that reference geek culture, to better blend in, like "nah, I'm not really into pokemon" 21:23:09 i lik efish. 21:23:17 me too. fish are 21:23:20 sometimes you can disguise a lack of understanding with something that can be interpreted as a joke 21:23:22 RodgerTheGreat, heh 21:23:26 indeed 21:23:32 as long as jokes aren't repeated frequently 21:23:42 feeding it with lots of memes could help 21:23:44 Infamous technique. 21:23:52 If you don't understand, say something funny. 21:24:00 after all, tons of people respond to questions involving something that was in a meme with the meme's catchphrase 21:24:01 yup 21:24:10 it's very very annoying, but oh so common for real people to do 21:24:11 O RLY? 21:24:15 -!- helios24 has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:24:15 -!- oerjan has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:24:18 ... exactly. 21:24:21 lol 21:24:37 I like cats. 21:24:42 I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGER? 21:24:46 no 21:24:48 aw, ok. 21:24:51 speaking of which, the bot could be coded to "laugh along" if enough people are loling about something 21:24:59 good idea 21:24:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:24:59 -!- helios24 has joined. 21:25:16 always make it a random chance, though 21:25:19 ... this bot would be very hard to program 21:25:30 RodgerTheGreat, maybe it should laugh based on the style of jokes it had laughed at previously. 21:25:30 lol lol lol Wait, what? 21:25:55 and load many variants- "lol", "lmao", "haha", "eh, w/e" 21:25:58 Just get a bot in here. Tweak it later. :-) 21:26:03 perhaps the act of coding this bot should be a group effort 21:26:11 even its core is quite complex already.. 21:26:14 as we're designing it 21:26:23 there are many layers of behavior that could improve the performance of the design 21:26:41 maybe a vaguely plugin based architechture 21:26:47 You should sift through various places for papers and articles on AI. 21:26:48 you could write a LaughAlong plugin, etc 21:27:08 and get callbacks like learnedNewAssociation(from, to) 21:27:12 modular design is good 21:27:29 maybe this should be a community project or something? 21:27:29 especially if you can "hotload" plugins 21:28:14 a way to manually modify the memory, etc would be useful 21:28:17 for near the start 21:28:20 to set it on the right track 21:28:41 for example if it sees "fuck you lol" it might associate "fuck you" with happy/funny :P 21:28:45 near the start. 21:28:47 and an easy way to extract "brain dumps" or at least postmortems 21:28:53 save/load memory state, etc 21:29:03 possibly a GUI would help there too 21:29:19 i.e. a command-line program to modify the DB, and when starting the bot you could tell it to spawn a gui to do all that from 21:29:22 I would lean towards a web-based interface for a collaborative effort, myself 21:29:32 well assuming the bot code can be downloaded 21:29:37 but yes, if there's going to be a main instance 21:29:39 that sounds good 21:30:25 how will we avoid conflicting ideas? 21:30:26 like someone says 21:30:29 "you are a scammer" 21:30:35 and someone else says "you are an honest person" 21:30:40 he'll go around telling people both... 21:31:43 that's why I thought "friends" and "enemies" could be good 21:31:52 he could learn who to trust and who to ignore 21:32:08 but that's less effective in a massive channel like #Linux 21:32:21 it'd be good if it was a small channel like ##Nonlogic or #Esoteric 21:33:05 yes but with small channels its easier to spot 21:34:15 ok, so we've got a rough design 21:34:23 i guess if this is going to be a community project its down to practical questions 21:34:24 well, in a smaller channel it'd be more an experiment, whereas in a large channel it'd be a game 21:34:33 RodgerTheGreat, both, really 21:34:39 it's a game in the small picture 21:34:45 it's an experiment in the big picture 21:34:49 it would respond to /msgs for instance 21:34:58 anyway - practical questions: what language to implement it in? 21:35:09 nothing like C - too low level for something like this 21:35:19 You could make your own language and use it! 21:35:27 languages like Python and Ruby might get a bit messy with a modular architechture and lots of AI logic here 21:35:29 ihope, heh :) 21:35:33 Or you could use Common Lisp, Scheme, Haskell... 21:35:38 static typing can really help in a situation like this 21:35:44 If you like esoteric, then Unlambda, Lazy K... 21:35:47 well, I'd say that designing it to handle prolonged, person-to-person conversations and longterm relationships would be more of a step towards conversational AI, while most of the "lost in a room simulacra" ideas are really cheap tricks 21:36:10 ihope, monads and stuffs are unneccessary worry for something as unpure as this 21:36:20 Java, perhaps? I know of some great event-driven IRC-bot frameworks 21:36:47 Perl could actually be good 21:36:55 Nothing in Haskell says you can't just put an IO type on everything. 21:36:58 RodgerTheGreat, java is good, i think - it has a familiar syntax to most coders who'd care to try this, is well-known, and would fit into a modular architechture right 21:37:06 RodgerTheGreat, + Swing would be useful for the gui 21:37:35 Though Java's also nice. 21:37:46 however i think for things like remembering Conversations and the like, some custom irc code might be in order 21:37:51 it's not very hard to do, really 21:37:59 and would help in putting some things like short-term-memory in the core 21:38:06 if it's done in Java, I could certainly contribute to the coding 21:38:30 Of course, Java is low on shiny theory... 21:38:36 wha? 21:39:01 It doesn't support proofs by induction. 21:39:05 ...that I know of. 21:39:16 ihope, thank you for this earth-shattering evidence 21:39:22 i am disqualifying java because of the lack of shiny theory 21:39:23 :P 21:39:24 oh, fuck proofs. Who are you, Djikstra? 21:39:33 we aren't coding for a nuclear reactor here. 21:39:39 umm..welll.... 21:39:43 ...to be honest... 21:39:47 i was going to.....umm.... 21:39:54 ...yeah. not coding for a nuclear reactor. 21:39:55 sure. 21:40:30 :D 21:40:32 fuck, if you want this thing to be provable and totally deterministic, we can do it in FORTRAN. That'd be a kick. 21:40:41 haskell! 21:40:46 FORTRAN supports this sort of thing? 21:40:55 FORTRAN programs can be proven 21:40:55 no it doesn't. 21:41:01 lament, i'm not very experienced with haskell 21:41:04 i only get about the basics 21:41:24 most people who'd want to contribute would be doing it for the laughs, anyway, and they'd be more likely to know some java than haskell 21:41:34 write it in lolcode then! 21:41:41 very funny 21:41:47 java can be useful, you know.. 21:41:56 Haskell's type system, while more expressive than many other type systems, doesn't quite have types like "function that implements this standard". 21:41:58 especially in situations like this 21:42:12 Java is a robust, scalable language well suited to large-scale projects 21:42:13 ihope: what's a standard? 21:42:15 And indeed, you're not writing anything so critical as a program component. 21:42:16 it requires some random numbers, some lookup tables, a bit of logic, and lots of IO 21:42:23 java can do all of that fine 21:42:29 lament: s/standard/specification/ 21:42:56 plus when it comes round to a GUI or similar, java is good at that too 21:43:04 ihope: it does that to a fuller extent than many other languages 21:43:10 (with type signatures) 21:43:34 Indeed, a Haskell value's type does say *something* about what it does. 21:44:23 oh, and the app will have to do a bit of configuration file processing too 21:44:26 java can do that fine too 21:44:45 StreamTokenizer is one of my greatest friends 21:44:45 so, really, java can do all this fine, it can be done cleanly, and java is a very well known language 21:44:50 sounds good to me 21:45:15 I guess sprinkling code with asserts is sort of the same thing as using a... preemptive approach? 21:45:25 Yes, preemptive. 21:45:27 ihope, when did i mention asserts? 21:45:34 You didn't. 21:45:38 okay 21:45:48 on the subject of asserts, asserts are infinitely better than unit tests 21:45:51 But asserts are a useful debugging tool, yes? 21:45:53 yes 21:46:21 * ehird` hates unit tests because human context switching is expensive (and i'm not just quoting joel, i've tried unit tests and hated my loss of time. asserts are great) 21:46:25 well, exceptions too 21:46:37 assert() is "THIS SHOULD NEVER EVER HAPPEN, WORLD ASPLODE" 21:46:49 unit testing *can* be automated to a degree 21:46:51 exceptions are "SOMETHING WENT REALLY WRONG, SO SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE DID SOMETHING WRONG, OH NO" 21:47:20 by designing a language well-suited to it, you can eliminate the human labor entirely, aside from providing test data 21:47:23 um 21:47:28 exceptions are a control flow mechanism 21:47:36 What are unit tests? 21:47:37 asserts are a debugging tool 21:47:43 lament, yse 21:47:45 *yes 21:47:45 tests are a testing tool 21:47:49 they're all different :) 21:47:57 lament, debugging and testing need not be seperate 21:48:04 and debugging and testing can be done via a control flow mechanism 21:48:05 QED 21:48:10 ihope: a unit test is a methodical test of every method and function in a program component in isolation 21:48:12 ihope: you take a chunk of your code and run it with many possible inputs and check that the outputs are correct 21:48:15 assert(!"the excrement has hit the air-circulation device"); 21:48:22 bsmntbombdood, hah 21:48:44 * ihope ponders how strong a type system can be 21:48:58 so, pratical question #1 - what language? answered 21:49:00 answer: Java 21:49:10 java is shit 21:49:18 bsmntbombdood, for many uses, sure 21:49:24 for all uses 21:49:31 bsmntbombdood: I think you mean "Java is *the* shit" 21:49:35 Java isn't shit for... um... 21:49:39 ihope: take haskell, and remove all polymorphism :) 21:49:39 zealot detected, zealot detected, zealot alart 21:49:41 *alert 21:49:44 ihope: you'll get the strongest type system possibel 21:49:48 possible 21:49:52 java isn't shit for enterprise-level mutithreaded applications 21:50:11 Java isn't shit if all you want to do is type "public static void main"! 21:50:16 prac- er, bikeshedding question #2 - what project name? probably the same as the main instance's name i guess 21:50:19 java isn't shit for interactive content embedded in webpages 21:50:34 java is just not a nice language 21:50:37 interactive content in webpages is fail 21:50:37 1337speak might be useful for the name, to make people's expectations lower for the instances intelligence 21:50:45 client side scripting is EVIL 21:50:47 dav3y? d4vey? i don't know 21:50:59 i know 21:51:00 bsmntbombdood: what if you don't want to waste your server's time? 21:51:02 there's a different between an applet sandbox and scripting. 21:51:23 lament: perhaps I didn't mean "strong" so much as... "expressive"? 21:51:28 ihope: you should be even more reluctant to waste the user's time 21:51:56 for a name, pick squazr23 21:52:02 lament, har har har 21:52:10 :D 21:52:20 maybe we should avoid a real name 21:52:24 then it doesn't have to remember it 21:52:29 because, if it can "forget" 21:52:34 then forgetting its real name... heh. 21:52:48 but forgetting a nickname is plausible i guess 21:53:02 ehird`: depends on the IRC client. 21:53:14 Doesn't it? 21:53:16 huh? 21:53:33 * RodgerTheGreat closes his eyes and types something... 21:53:38 usoac 21:53:39 I'd be pretty incapable of forgetting my nick. 21:53:44 we'll call it USOAC 21:53:57 backronym generators, begin 21:54:00 Title bar: "ihope on #esoteric (+nc): Esoteric programming language discussion . . ." 21:54:01 Hello world I am typing with my eyes shut I wonder how this will turn out because I am wfollowing RodgerTheGreat 's examples of yes 21:54:05 heh. 21:54:09 Button next to the input box: "ihope" 21:54:18 ihope, i guess 21:54:20 I'm capable of typing blind. 21:54:22 ihope, but think e.g. irssi 21:54:23 Thing to the left of everything I say: "" 21:54:33 meh, i guess 21:54:40 maybe it'll only forget unrecalled memories 21:55:08 bsmntbombdood: programs often do take significant amounts of CPU time. 21:55:24 (And yes, I am just now revealing that that's what I meant by "time".) 21:56:06 hmm 21:56:11 i can't think of a nick that would fit.. 21:56:22 we don't want something terribly intellectual, but we don't want something really n00bish 21:56:27 ehird`: my irssi does display my nickname in the status bar 21:57:09 ehird`: mix both worlds "SirR0x0rLMAONeumann IV." 21:57:10 :S 21:57:16 RodgerTheGreat, oh jesus 21:57:18 how about no :P 21:57:19 lol 21:58:11 I just don't see anything wrong with the "random letters" idea 21:58:17 how about 21:58:19 cszk 21:58:20 no 21:58:23 most people will think it's an odd abbreviation or something 21:58:25 not n00bish enough 21:58:33 what's wrong with usoac? 21:58:35 kdlaf 21:58:37 ofpa 21:58:39 mvldo 21:58:41 u50ac, maybe? 21:58:43 mvldo... that's great 21:58:53 mvld0 21:58:56 -!- ehird` has changed nick to mvldo. 21:59:00 somebody say something to me 21:59:14 hi, mvldo 21:59:22 RodgerTheGreat: hi 21:59:28 'sup? 21:59:49 RodgerTheGreat: dunno. Hey, what do you know about quantum mechanics? 22:00:14 a reasonable amount 22:00:20 string theory is pretty crazy 22:00:28 RodgerTheGreat: IM IN UR QUANTUM BOX, MAYBE. lol 22:00:32 heh 22:00:44 -!- mvldo has changed nick to ehird. 22:00:48 ok, that worked well 22:00:51 I agree 22:00:54 mvldo is a good name 22:00:58 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehird`. 22:00:59 that type of conversation is entirely feasible 22:00:59 the real world comes with strings attached! 22:01:03 indeed 22:01:37 also he could respond "i like strings. i know that a peice of string is 3 inches long!" 22:01:41 stuff like that 22:01:44 relvant, but useless 22:02:18 ok 22:02:22 but people might think he's joking around or something 22:02:29 well that's good 22:02:33 isn't it? 22:02:51 if they laugh, he'll think it's positive and then change subjects, so you're golden 22:03:01 indeed 22:03:22 so mvldo, an AI bot, implemented in Java 22:03:43 i guess all that's needed now is some sort of collaboration space - a wiki and a version control system? 22:04:58 hmm, too lazy to set up my VPS for that right now... 22:05:04 tricky situation. 22:05:56 :s 22:06:17 so, how is mvldo pronounced? "muvvledoe"? 22:06:29 i guess 22:06:33 "muh vul doh" 22:07:00 yeah, sounds like a last name if you emphasize the "vul" 22:07:02 lord voldemort. 22:07:08 lament, that's what i just thought 22:07:12 muh vul doh moh ert 22:07:21 I keep thinking of mold for some reason 22:07:35 i doubt anyone would question it 22:07:40 apart from "what does your name mean?" 22:07:41 I guess I don't read enough children's fantasy literature 22:07:49 he can just reply that it's a random nickname, i guess 22:08:06 or he could learn some absolutely hilarious responses 22:08:20 yeah, i guess 22:08:32 with carefully planted topic-related stuff in them 22:08:34 to change subject 22:08:44 he should claim to have ADHD, i guess, that'd help credibility 22:09:28 oh no 22:09:30 http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mvldo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a mvuldo exists 22:09:32 *mvldo 22:09:35 "what does your name mean?" "your mom"/"what does YOUR name mean"/"it's my name"/"don't wear it out"/"I'm borderline autistic"/"The last person to ask that is now fashioned into boots" 22:09:44 only 1 post, though 22:09:49 RodgerTheGreat, haha 22:10:08 well, a real-life mvldo is even better 22:10:17 if people google it, stuff comes up 22:12:48 yes but it might not fit the personality 22:12:55 and he'd have to explain for things he never knew about 22:13:13 http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=storage&message.id=143#M143 that's all he's said though 22:13:15 so, i guess 22:13:44 anyone have hosting space to offer temporarily for the source control/wiki? 22:14:32 it seems mvldo means something 22:14:34 in some language 22:15:01 but anyway 22:15:13 my betting chips are on something mildly offensive 22:15:14 Borderline autistic... 22:15:16 ok, that's every problem sans hosting space solved 22:15:43 ehird`: do you know who I am, indcidentally? 22:15:58 *incidentally 22:16:02 RodgerTheGreat, no, why 22:16:24 I happen to be one of the staffers of Nonlogic. http://www.nonlogic.org/index.php?tour 22:16:34 never heard of it 22:16:42 well, you have now. 22:16:59 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 22:17:27 well isn't that a nice coincidence :) apart from "IRC access is available only to paying users. PsyBNCs, Eggdrops, and related software are expressly prohibited from use." 22:18:07 and the fact that our founder has religious objections to Java being used on the server 22:18:17 Religious? 22:18:32 ihope, i guess jehovah's witness, they can't do ANYTHING :P 22:18:39 RMS is a religious figure to his followers 22:18:45 RodgerTheGreat, which languages would he not have religious objections to 22:18:46 Objections to people using Java at all? 22:19:00 ihope, you know rms.. 22:19:09 mainly it's against having Javac and Java on the server. Java code is a non-issue 22:19:12 No, not really. 22:19:29 we do have gcj, but I don't particularly enjoy that program 22:19:30 Richard Stallman, right? 22:19:33 yeah 22:19:37 RodgerTheGreat, gcj is evil... 22:19:42 no shit 22:19:48 well, java code sure, but if there's going to be a main instance 22:19:52 it makes sense for it to be on the same machine 22:20:06 so - what programming languages would the founder not freak out about? :) 22:20:48 it would be problematic *hosting* a bot on the server at all, really. I mainly offered our resources for SVN/webhosting 22:20:56 yeah, i guess 22:20:59 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:21:02 just thinking - since it'd have a web interface for the brain 22:21:18 yeah, I dunno 22:22:19 hrm. 22:22:21 dialemma. 22:22:24 dialemming 22:22:35 * ihope chants "virtual private server" 22:23:22 * ehird` chants "have one but too lazy to set it up and don't have ssh private key on this machine" 22:23:40 there is no dialemma that cannot be solved with sufficient dialysis. 22:23:48 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:24:01 hosting for something low bandwidth isn't expensive, but there's a big difference on the 'net between "zero dollars" and "cheap" 22:24:20 by "a big difference" I mean a gaping chasm 22:24:53 indeed 22:26:01 maybe i should just run the bot on this machine, for now 22:26:10 nonlogic looks like the simplest place 22:27:06 well, if you'd like an account, I can set you right up 22:27:21 just PM me with your desired username, real name and email address 22:27:26 alright 22:28:02 Gaping chasm... 22:28:33 Indeed, if you charged one cent for something, that'd probably drive lots of people away. 22:28:39 yes 22:28:55 the credit card form has a big psychological impact 22:29:59 Rather silly. 22:30:13 Why does it? 22:30:31 because it does 22:31:27 One of those things without actual reason behind it? 22:32:07 because the way credit cards work is ripe for abuse and people that are smart have some resistance to giving their info away 22:32:20 if it was more like cash, it wouldn't be a big deal 22:32:37 yeah, if there was a floppy-drive-like thing on your desk 22:32:45 and you just put a dollar in there, or something 22:32:48 and clicked a button 22:32:51 everybody would be fine 22:33:10 There's no good way to make sure they take only one cent? 22:33:17 not really 22:33:24 if there WERE, the internet would be great 22:33:28 no ads, for sure 22:33:30 That's a little bit stupid. 22:33:41 a lot of things would cost a penny to see, though 22:33:45 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/ *tada* 22:34:05 I like what you've done with your webdesign 22:34:13 very modern 22:34:14 yes 22:35:10 shouldn't that be port 69 22:35:24 lol 22:36:59 i updated it 22:37:01 very fashionable now 22:37:25 nice 22:38:43 i hope nobody googles mvldo, heh 22:38:55 * ihope does 22:39:11 Why? 22:39:25 because then they'd find the website.. 22:39:28 and see its code. 22:39:30 "uhoh" 22:39:47 oh no, now i have to install mediawiki 22:39:53 maybe i should use something simpler 22:39:57 what's simple wiki software to set up 22:40:00 moinmoin is quite hard 22:40:01 That's what robots.txt and meta tags are for. 22:40:21 Make your own very simple wiki? 22:40:29 that'd be a waste of my valuable time coding :P 22:40:35 normally i would give into NIH 22:40:40 but there's a big AI project to code and all 22:41:15 ehird`: nonlogic already provides wikis 22:41:20 does it? 22:41:21 great 22:41:22 how? 22:41:23 yup 22:41:33 (i like this nonlogic thing!) 22:41:39 hrm.. I think you can turn it on via nonlogic.org/user-admin 22:41:57 and then use "user.nonlogic.org/wiki" 22:42:07 I haven't set one up in a while, though 22:42:21 ehird`: we do our best. :) 22:42:31 wow that was quick 22:43:12 it seems that it's injected loads of users though? 22:43:21 now do you see why there are so many people from #Esoteric using NL? 22:43:23 hm? 22:43:38 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Listusers 22:43:55 over 500 of them 22:44:02 oh, I think our system mirrors users between wikis 22:44:05 ah 22:44:07 okay 22:44:09 I didn't build it, myself 22:44:29 what is the admin account though? :) 22:44:51 you're an admin for your own wiki, I believe 22:45:09 there's no mvldo account 22:45:24 There is no user by the name "Mvldo". Check your spelling, or use the form below to create a new user account. 22:45:44 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special%3AListusers&group=sysop&username= no sysops 22:45:49 this wiki thing is, uh, broken :) 22:45:55 oh right 22:45:57 i make an account 22:46:00 then use the admin interface 22:46:04 to sysop it 22:46:08 ah, bingo 22:46:52 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:48:03 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki it's a start 22:48:22 guess so 22:48:49 * ehird` grabs hg 22:49:23 (http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ hg's site, for anyone interested) 22:51:19 don't know how i'll handle ssh pushing though 22:51:26 users other than me have to touch it, but if everyone can.. 22:51:59 hm 22:52:26 it would represent a mild security risk to distribute your login to others 22:52:32 yes 22:52:36 error: invalid Python installation: unable to open /usr/lib/python2.3/config/Makefile (No such file or directory) 22:52:37 oh no 22:52:50 hunh? 22:52:52 no /config directory? :S 22:53:00 well mercurial builds a c extension to python 22:53:01 for speed 22:53:02 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:53:03 ~raw join #lispcafe 22:53:07 apparently python-dev or similar isn't installed? 22:53:15 never heard of it 22:53:34 well, the development stuff for python 22:53:52 http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2004-March/148375.html 22:53:53 well, I mean, we ought to 22:54:07 I'm no pycoder myself, but many of our users are 22:54:33 it's 22:54:35 python2.3-dev 22:54:45 hey, pop into ##Nonlogic and we can ask somebody else 23:19:26 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:19:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:22:54 I HATE SSH 23:23:11 "WHY WOULD I READ YOUR BASH_PROFILE OR BASHRC? THAT'S SILLY! I AM HERE TO ANNOY YOU AND TO BREAK YOUR PROGAMS!" 23:24:23 oh well 23:24:25 fixed via ugly hack 23:24:44 RodgerTheGreat, i guess the current matter is to fill in the design pages 23:24:45 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 23:24:56 ok 23:25:21 pages like "Memory", etc 23:25:30 and "Topic changing" 23:25:47 and then everything else - implemented in plugins - in the plugins category, i guess 23:26:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to zxcvbnm2000. 23:28:15 i did a small mockup page on memory 23:30:51 -!- zxcvbnm2000 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:30:55 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:33:31 ok, i created a few articles 23:35:19 Now make it say something other than "article" at the top. >:-) 23:36:02 why? 23:36:08 most mediawiki interfaces use that 23:36:14 But some don't. 23:36:26 so what 23:36:31 that's not an important design decision 23:36:53 Indeed, it's not. 23:42:03 ok 23:42:07 i've made tons of pages 23:42:13 RodgerTheGreat, ihope, http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 23:42:14 check out the pages 23:45:40 :) comments welcome 23:46:48 okay fine ignore me =p 23:49:18 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | REMINDER FOR ehird` DO NOT REMOVE: mvldo.nonlogic.org. 23:49:44 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:49:54 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 2007-08-03: 00:08:47 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:53:51 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:25:13 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 02:08:30 -!- calamari has joined. 02:23:30 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 02:41:12 what haskell book/tutorial should i read? 02:46:59 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 02:48:22 Jebus. . . 2.6.21 is *now* marked stable in Gentoo. . . 02:48:32 bsmntbombdood: ask in #haskell 02:48:52 they're probably more qualified 02:52:55 probably 04:08:58 -!- cherez has joined. 04:48:24 'night, guys 04:48:39 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:08:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:09:43 -!- immibis has joined. 05:14:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:39:38 -!- immibis_ has joined. 05:53:21 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:53:24 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 06:18:28 -!- ihope__ has joined. 06:18:43 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 06:39:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:54:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has changed nick to thematrixeatsyou. 06:54:24 -!- MichaelRaskin1 has joined. 06:54:49 -!- MichaelRaskin1 has changed nick to MichaelRaskin. 07:02:56 haskell has sooo much syntax 07:03:41 yes, but it's all very reasonable 07:03:43 and pretty 07:03:54 really syntax is not the problem with haskell :) 07:04:08 i'd say it's not reasonable 07:04:33 what about it? 07:04:48 the hugeness 07:06:13 class Eq a where 07:06:13 (==), (/=) :: a -> a -> Bool 07:06:13 x /= y = not ( x == y) 07:06:18 that's pretty? 07:11:51 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:25:06 bsmntbombdood: where's the hugeness? 07:25:15 the syntax 07:25:22 i see a type class definition, a signature and a function definition. 07:25:47 nearly every language has equivalents. 07:25:56 not as syntax 07:26:03 usually as syntax 07:26:20 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 07:27:14 there's also terribly ugly whitespace significance, and two completely unrelated uses of () 07:28:13 i'm honestly not sure what's the problem, haskell is just like any other langugae 07:30:43 maybe it's just unfamiliarity 07:31:17 probably. I think haskell is very pretty. 07:34:26 whitespace significance follows somewhat odd rules but leads to consistent pretty indentation 07:35:25 i don't know haskell, but am i allowed to ask: where's the definition of ==? 07:35:49 missing 07:36:03 it's a type class definition 07:36:10 somewhat like an interface 07:36:32 (==) will be implemented for individual types 07:40:16 in plain language, "there's a type class Eq, and any type deriving it will provide two operations, (==) and (/=), that take two values of that type and return a Bool; and x /= y is always defined as not (x == y)" 07:42:14 but i need to sleep. 07:42:22 sleep is for the week 07:42:25 weak 07:42:35 yes. sleep is for the week. 07:42:52 no, weak 07:43:06 i'll go to sleep, be back in a week! 07:47:47 i wish i could sleep for a week 07:47:58 sleep for a week, awake for 2 07:53:54 * immibis gives lament a lecture about interfaces being abstract and not containing implementations 07:54:16 * immibis gives himself a lecture about giving people lectures 07:54:19 lol 07:54:23 * bsmntbombdood smacks immibis 07:54:30 * immibis slaps bsmntbombdood with a rainbow trout 07:54:37 OOP is not about fancy words 07:54:43 * immibis goes to ##topic 07:56:01 * immibis makes everyone autoopped on ##topic 07:58:45 but interfaces still should not contain implementations if you use java 07:58:54 and even if you don't 07:59:00 you shouldn't use java 07:59:06 why not 07:59:07 or use fancy words about oop 07:59:22 * immibis slaps bsmntbombdood with a rainbow trout 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:02 * immibis slaps bsmntbombdood with another rainbow trout because he can 08:00:12 * bsmntbombdood frys then eats the trout 08:00:16 mm, delicious 08:00:20 * immibis notices that catching rainbow trout without a license is illegal in new zealand 08:00:38 * immibis doesn't have a license and doesn't need one anyway because it's only irc 08:01:34 -!- RainbowTroutPoli has joined. 08:01:53 -!- RainbowTroutPoli has changed nick to TroutPolice. 08:02:43 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:43 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:44 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:48 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:52 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:56 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:56 gtfo 08:03:06 -!- TroutPolice has left (?). 08:03:40 * immibis notices that the username is a bit of a give-away 08:03:59 TroutPolice (n=toBogE@...) has left #esoteric () 08:12:04 -!- immibis has quit ("When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty"). 08:26:51 -!- immibis has joined. 08:34:49 -!- immibis has quit ("Pull the pin and count to what?"). 08:47:19 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 09:21:46 -!- Sukoshi` has joined. 10:28:09 -!- thematrixeatsyou has quit ("testing OS, then going to bed, gnight"). 10:51:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:51:48 Hi! 10:51:55 Writing from another P 10:51:56 PC 10:52:00 my is at repair :DDD 10:54:59 I AM DI\]i=\ 10:55:04 s21i123r 10:55:06 sor22r2y2 10:59:23 I am an idiot 11:00:04 -!- asiekierka has quit. 11:00:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:00:53 Sorry for all that. 11:01:04 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit). 11:03:08 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:03:13 My friend did all thar 11:03:16 that* 11:03:21 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit). 11:09:47 -!- Figs has joined. 11:09:53 hey oklopol 11:10:00 did you ever play my song? :P 11:20:16 -!- Figs has left (?). 11:27:41 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:27:51 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 15:08:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:08:30 HI! 15:10:30 -!- McDonalato has joined. 15:11:00 Hi McDonalato! 15:11:13 McDonalato, how's your day? 15:11:17 The acorn is the channel in an animal that eats both plant and animal farm. 15:11:25 asiekierka: What am i to you? Some sort of encyclopaedia or something? Let's change the subject... 15:11:49 McDonalato, okay. Let's talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:11:58 asiekierka: I had the misfortune to talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:12:15 McDonalato: My rules are for you to say your rules. 15:12:27 asiekierka: I wish that i could jump out of things to talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:12:48 McDonalato: Rules are: 1. STFU. 2. Break at least one rule. 15:13:03 asiekierka: Which one of us is the one asking all the judges i've had the misfortune to talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:13:38 McDonalato: You are more intelligent than me! I don't have any rules really though. 15:13:46 asiekierka: My rules are for you to say your rules. 15:14:02 McDonalato: What if i don't have any rules? 15:14:17 asiekierka: You are more intelligent than me! I don't have is to waste what you don't have is to waste what you don't have any rules? 15:14:51 McDonalato: You are false. You are more intelligent than me and Brainf**k haters. 15:14:58 asiekierka: You are more intelligent than me and brainf**k haters. 15:15:16 McDonalato: Don't laugh at me. YOU are more intelligent. 15:15:24 asiekierka: You are false. You are more intelligent. 15:15:38 McDonalato: If you think so... okay. 15:15:49 asiekierka: I am a human being, which means i do what i want to think about your mind. 15:16:09 McDonalato: ... this didn't make sense. 15:16:25 asiekierka: So, who is using the family brain cell at the centre of the process, the rain is part of an ass and a mare breeding. 15:16:49 asiekierka, What were you told about letting that bot talk in here? 15:16:50 It's a flood monster. 15:16:57 what? 15:17:02 I am just talking? 15:17:09 talking!* 15:17:20 STFU ok 15:17:23 You're flooding with a bot that you've been kicked for flooding with before 15:17:32 if lament will say something then i will make him quit 15:17:36 flooding? 15:17:41 He dosen't flood 15:17:44 i just talk with him 15:17:51 about 20 messages you/bot in a row 15:18:05 so you sho--- oh wait 15:18:43 STFU, ehird`. 15:18:47 -!- McDonalato has left (?). 15:18:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:19:08 It's my new bot? 15:19:13 he is so intelligent 15:19:24 nope 15:19:25 that's not your bot 15:19:27 it's not 15:19:30 Tritonio!!! 15:20:05 -!- blahbot` has joined. 15:22:16 What about esoteric-blah? 15:22:24 not there too 15:22:39 blah = halb = hlab = lab = bal = bol = bot 15:22:41 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:23:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:23:28 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 15:37:42 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 15:38:26 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:39:30 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:39:45 howdy, folks 15:41:09 howdy 15:41:17 join #esoteric-bf 15:41:17 hi, asiekierka 15:41:24 if you want to talk about brainf*** 15:45:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:54:35 -!- ihope__ has joined. 15:54:47 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 16:06:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:48:34 -!- mtve has left (?). 16:49:12 -!- mtve has joined. 16:55:06 Anybody willing to talk about FBF? 16:55:08 BF*? 16:55:53 Doubtful. 16:56:05 i liked the channel more one year ago 16:56:34 Hmm. 16:56:42 Try looking at Dimensifuck. 16:56:50 It *will* blow your mind away. >:D 16:58:10 how 16:58:23 It's an n-dimensional language. 16:58:55 i rather like Dimensional Areas. 16:59:10 You want to write your code as a Klein bottle? 16:59:14 You can do it! 17:00:54 nope 17:00:56 i mean 17:01:02 Dimensional Areas from one anime 17:01:08 pikhq: I have a question about how PEBBLE handles variables 17:01:09 that you all 99% hate 17:01:19 You know what i'd like? 17:01:19 RodgerTheGreat: Sure. 17:01:30 An Brainf**k OS in only 5120b (5KB) 17:01:44 with some more features 17:01:53 does it recognize structures like [>], where the pointer moves on loop iterations, and adjust accordingly? 17:01:57 I believe someone's tried an OS in Brainfuck; not sure how well it was. 17:02:02 nope 17:02:07 a OS that interprets BF. 17:02:12 and has a command prompt for it. 17:02:20 it can do only that 17:02:26 and it'll have some new functions: 17:02:31 because the simple way to do them seems like just running through the program, ignoring loops and using state that way to figure out relative locations 17:02:36 RodgerTheGreat: No, it doesn't. You have to explicitly say which location you're at at the end. 17:02:43 and for an unbalanced loop, you'd have to do something else 17:02:47 ah. hm 17:02:56 Your solution is *exactly* how I do it. 17:03:04 sweet. I'm on the right track. 17:03:25 (well, actually, I've got it set to turn off the state-tracking when it detects an explicit > or <. . . But, yeah.) 17:03:30 BUT, i don't know how to do it 17:03:31 really 17:03:35 Except if i'll do 17:03:46 @(filename.txt|4) 17:03:47 asiekierka: It'd actually be trivial to pull off. 17:03:52 reads 4th char from filename.txt 17:03:59 it must be there for something cool enough 17:04:04 so when you < or >, it goes into "nontracking mode", and then you specify where to pick up again before you use another variable? 17:04:15 If I knew *16 bit* assembly, I'd do it. 17:04:17 RodgerTheGreat: Exactly. 17:04:40 An OS like this will ROCK. 17:04:45 i have a friend that may do it 17:04:45 alright. Hm. 17:04:53 it will have 10 commands in total 17:04:58 debug, 8 default and file-reading 17:05:26 do you allow coders to explicitly define a memory layout, require explicit definitions of a memory layout, or let it float and trust the compiler to optimize things? 17:05:47 It will be a port of one of optimized interperters 17:05:52 it will interpret in runtime! 17:06:06 optimizations: ... none. 17:06:10 RodgerTheGreat: You can either specifically state variable location or let the compiler do it automatically. 17:06:12 except for max CPU speed 17:06:19 since nothing takes CPU/RAM 17:06:25 gotcha 17:06:33 It doesn't optimize that (yet); it merely assigns variable location in order of variable declaration. 17:06:41 yeah, I figured 17:07:04 * pikhq wonders what a good algorithm to pull that off would be. . . 17:07:06 It'll also use 10 for newlines, not 13 and 10 17:07:13 but allowing the compiler to make optimizations will allow you to upgrade the compiler and simultaneously upgrade every program 17:07:15 asiekierka: That's the only way to do it. 17:07:20 pikhq: I actually have an algo for that 17:07:21 yes 17:07:27 Well, yeah. 17:07:36 The compiler is set up to be *very* optimizable. 17:07:42 I will always make new versions that'll be optimalized of my OS. 17:07:52 supporting MMX, SSE, SSE2... maybe 17:07:55 so it'll work faster 17:07:58 Unfortunately, the current optimization pass added a small handful of commands to let you tell things it can't handle itself. . . 17:08:10 asiekierka: Do you know C and assembly? 17:08:20 no... my friend does, he'll probably do it 17:08:26 (especially assembly for MMX, SSE, SSE2, and SSE3) 17:08:36 at least the beginning 17:08:41 it'll be open-source 17:08:50 Also, none of those will be much/any use; those extensions just do floating point numbers, not ints. 17:09:07 count the number of "accesses" on every variable cell (large bias on +-, smaller bias on ,., smallest bias on []), to get a metric for how often particular variables are used (priority) 17:09:08 And it'll support 2 modes... you set the second one with $. 17:09:14 1st mode - numbers 0-255 17:09:21 2nd mode - numbers 0-65536 17:09:40 then, group the variables with common variables in the center, less common values further away 17:09:43 so 11 commands in total 17:09:49 however, this is not the only way to do it 17:09:53 2 added by me (needed for a proj like this), 1 debug, 8 normal 17:10:02 Efficient way to do it, though. 17:10:24 another algo would involve examining what cells are most frequently accessed sequentially 17:10:25 I'll probably add that to the next PEBBLE version; thanks, Rodger. 17:10:29 this would improve speed 17:10:35 pikhq: no prob 17:12:08 pikhq: I will make it open source, so if you may make PEBBLE emulated in Brainf**k, it will allow you with 2 files. 17:12:16 1st one - pebbleemu.b 17:12:23 2nd one - pebblecode.pb 17:12:29 asiekierka: PEBBLE already *compiles* to Brainfuck. 17:12:41 oh 17:12:44 cool 17:12:48 so it'll support it too 17:12:51 Yeah. 17:12:55 Cool one. 17:13:00 You just take a floppy disk 17:13:02 Could be an interesting project. 17:13:02 slot it in 17:13:11 Highly useless, but, then, that's the point of #esoteric, isn't it? 17:13:13 and launch it even without Windows or anything 17:13:19 I'm going to do some experiments with an optimizing brainfuck macrolanguage myself- I think it could be a tremendous learning experience 17:13:25 Bah. Windows? Ick. 17:13:30 or Linux 17:13:38 it'll be it's own OS all in itself 17:13:39 RodgerTheGreat: If you need any help, I'm willing to offer it. 17:13:40 with BF software 17:13:48 and some commends builtin 17:13:49 dir 17:13:51 echo 17:13:56 -!- cherez has joined. 17:13:59 Of course, I assume you'll mostly just want "How did you do this?" 17:13:59 (oh wait, echo will be in BF) 17:14:09 cat too 17:14:40 I'd recommend you just start off with a prompt for raw Brainfuck commands. 17:14:53 Anything more complex than that could be good for future version. 17:15:24 pikhq: I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to try to do this on my own as much as possible. I'll let you know if I get stuck on anything 17:15:33 but i will add 2 more commands anyway 17:15:35 and stop it 17:15:36 RodgerTheGreat: Of course. 17:15:38 only release bugfixes 17:15:44 raw BF will not work with such thing 17:15:50 there'll be one more command :DDD 17:15:59 For a first version, it will work perfectly. 17:16:13 I mainly asked you about the variables to check and see if you'd come up with something insanely more clever than what I was thinking about. :) 17:16:14 and then just bugfixes 17:16:17 it'll be opensource 17:16:18 Just a prompt where you type in Brainfuck code. When it ends, the prompt comes back up. 17:16:23 not only 17:16:25 :D 17:16:35 you type name of BF file OR BF code 17:16:40 then it reads the BF file 17:16:52 RodgerTheGreat: I think you'd like to know about what I do with loops and cell clears, though. 17:17:05 so you can save up to 1,33MB of BF stuff on a diskette 17:17:06 we'll see 17:17:21 I try to keep track of whenever a cell is guaranteed to be 0, so that I can skip loops that will never run. 17:17:25 i will later make 2 subversion 17:17:29 versions* 17:17:37 one will be basic BF with the one more command 17:17:44 second will have anything that others add 17:18:00 asiekierka: Hmm. . . 17:18:12 so? 17:18:22 I'm tempted to try working on that; I've needed an idea for a trivial OS to do. 17:18:44 ok 17:18:45 try then 17:18:48 i'll surely use IT 17:18:50 but 17:18:59 1) you need know-how to use any file-system read-only 17:19:02 for my idea 17:19:07 2) you'll need BF know-how 17:19:14 pikhq: in theory, you could fit a BF-OS into a bootloader quite readily 17:19:16 3) and file-reading know-how 17:19:17 Ans, of course, I have a lot of that. 17:19:18 Yes... 17:19:22 in THEORY 17:19:24 it should work 17:19:24 RodgerTheGreat: Oh, absolutely. 17:19:32 Original was 240b 17:19:41 FAT12 reader can fit in ~250b i guess 17:19:44 The full floppy disk would be good for storing any Brainfuck programs, though. 17:19:47 yes 17:19:49 or nearly full 17:19:58 eventually you put 1-5kb on floppy disk 17:20:19 So, I'd want to just fit a bootloader in the boot block, and make that load up BF-OS, along with a FAT16 reader. 17:20:28 FAT12 or ext2 17:20:43 ext2, for usage from other folk's computers. 17:20:43 if you have any space left 17:20:49 or both 17:20:50 ! 17:20:53 FAT12 and ext2 17:20:55 Err. 17:21:02 i recommend first one 17:21:03 FAT16, so non-Linux users can do something with it. 17:21:12 but floppies can't have FAT16 :P 17:21:15 Or FAT12; it'd depend upon floppy size. 17:21:19 Oh? News to me. 17:21:24 i guess 17:21:28 FAT12 first 17:21:34 then add FAT16, 32, ext2, ext3 17:21:36 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asie_idle. 17:21:38 will be back soon 17:22:32 I know of a person that did OS programming once 17:22:40 so he could do it even in 2-3 days i guess 17:22:45 once or twice 17:22:47 i don't know 17:24:54 * pikhq hasn't done any, so it'd take a while longer 17:25:30 so team up 17:25:34 he probably knows english 17:25:39 I will get him here later 17:26:03 pikhq: how difficult would it be to trend PEBBLE towards being self-hosting? 17:26:18 To make PEBBLE self-hosting? 17:26:20 Rewrite. 17:26:40 I know this. I'm asking how hard the rewrite would be. 17:26:45 I'd need to actually *write* a parser. . . 17:26:54 you didn't? 17:27:00 And the "source" command wouldn't work at all. . . 17:27:16 No; PEBBLE's syntax is a subset of Tcl. 17:27:29 aw, cheap 17:27:34 So, I just create a subinterpreter using Tcl's "interp" command, remove Tcl's own commands, and add in my own. 17:27:43 I started building a system around StreamTokenizer 17:27:46 I need to redo that with a proper parser someday. 17:28:00 Unfortunately, I lack knowledge of BNF. 17:28:15 BNF isn't the only way to build a parser 17:28:57 I designed some simple programming languages and their interpreters long before I knew what things like BNF were 17:29:02 Yeah; it's just a way to specify your syntax. 17:29:09 And I know jack about parsers. 17:29:37 it just breaks down into a state machine with some string manipulation crap 17:29:47 Ah. 17:32:44 bsmntbombdood: figured out haskell yet? 17:41:55 -!- asie_idle has changed nick to asiekierka. 17:41:58 Hi HI HI HI 17:42:06 'Lo. 17:45:41 Look, if we have an interperter that we can write BF code directly to for MS-DOS 17:45:47 we can try and run it from a floppy 17:45:47 :) 17:45:50 so we don't need to wait 17:45:53 but it may NOT work 17:46:55 * pikhq thinks about just doing DJGPP from DOS 17:47:37 nope 17:47:44 i have an better idea 17:47:48 and i will try! 17:47:55 Is there any interperter like that? 17:48:05 if yes, put it and bootsector on a floppy 17:48:07 and just BOOT 17:48:14 or compile BF code 17:48:17 to stuff like that 17:48:33 Not quite; realise that a DOS program won't boot directly. 17:48:38 ... i know 17:48:40 but i did it once 17:48:42 it runs it 17:48:46 though really really limited 17:48:51 99% of stuff dosen't work 17:48:54 but it's possible 17:49:02 it just loads EXE in it's own method 17:49:04 without DOS apis 17:49:07 but some stuff WORKS! 17:49:31 i still CAN go on and make a Pascal API emulator 17:49:37 since some people implemented then in Pascal/ASM 17:50:18 them* 17:50:22 some of APIs 17:50:25 it'll make more stuff work 17:50:33 if we could put them into the bootloader 18:02:49 anybody? 18:06:49 Ramrod? 18:28:53 -!- asiekierka has quit. 18:40:33 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 18:50:35 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:52:10 RodgerTheGreat, i updated the mvldo site 18:52:18 loads of pages on the wiki: http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 19:07:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:26:22 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:27:28 :) 19:41:27 ping 19:42:00 Gepongenpoken mit dem Fingerspitzgefhl 19:44:16 mvldo would not understand. :P 20:13:55 * pikhq has a remarkably slow idea for optimizing variable location. . . 20:14:14 Just test every permutation to try to find the shortest version. 20:15:57 this in Pebble? 20:17:08 Yeah. 20:17:34 so you would want to minimize a sum of absolute values of differences of locations... 20:17:45 i guess 20:17:55 RodgerTheGreat: My initial implementation of that algorithm managed to actually lengthen PFUCK. 20:18:26 4943 characters with "optimized" variable location vs. 4558 without. 20:19:54 you could do local permutations, swapping only a small set 20:20:19 until you find a local minimum. 20:21:52 Or I could implement the optimization algorithm correctly. 20:22:13 I've currently got the highest-referenced variables at the beginning of the variable space, rather than in the middle. 20:27:42 it sounds sort of like a reversed traveling salesman problem, the path is fixed but the distances are not 20:36:27 Maybe only counting the +'s and -'s would help. . . Or figuring out how to weight each one. . . 20:40:38 that's what i meant with the sum of absolute values thing 20:41:04 RodgerTheGreat: Okay, I implemented *exactly* the algorithm specified. . . 20:41:07 And it seems to suck. 20:41:45 lament: ha, no 20:42:20 It's fairly consistently lengthening code. 20:42:40 -!- cherez has joined. 20:42:43 Even *remarkably* naive code. 20:50:34 -!- MichaelRaskin has left (?). 20:54:41 Ah. I see *why* it sucks. . . 20:54:53 Cherez and I figure that this *is* an NP problem. . . :/ 20:55:13 RodgerTheGreat: I blame you for making me want to do this. :p 20:56:30 wait, how do you do variables in pebble? 20:57:31 how can you calculate an offset with something like .[[>+<-]>-] 20:58:17 I think it can be generalized to a sequencing problem, (most of which are NP-complete.) 20:58:25 I've already explained it. . . 20:58:40 Variables are either explictly or dynamically assigned a location in Brainfuck memory. 20:59:16 State of where in Brainfuck memory the thing is is kept. 20:59:43 When a loop which ends somewhere different from where it began occurs, state is ignored until you tell the compiler where you are again. 21:00:11 how do you do that? 21:01:50 brainfuck.tcl in PEBBLE should be enlightening. 21:16:56 * pikhq curses at NP completness 21:32:10 all you need to do is to find a polynomial time solution to an NP complete problem 21:32:13 home free! 21:34:56 Why not say "all you need to do is solve the halting problem"? 21:36:09 because that's proven impossible 21:37:08 actually, inventing a machine to solve the turing halting problem would be better than proving P=NP 21:37:20 because you could use it to prove that 21:38:08 only if P actually is =NP 21:38:53 you could use it find if P did =NP 21:41:06 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 21:42:49 RodgerTheGreat, become alive! :P 21:43:22 i knew people here were insane but i didn't know they thought they were Jesus... 21:43:32 bsmntbombdood, i want the computer from http://qntm.org/responsibility 21:43:44 damn, parsec error messages aren't helpful at all. 21:44:03 they aren't? 21:44:33 bsmntbombdood, cat >script { calculate last digit of pi; solve halting problem; prove that the laws of thermodynamics are actually complete bullshit }; interpret natural language script 21:44:54 uhh, there is no last digit of pi 21:45:13 indeed not 21:46:15 read the story first please 21:46:26 icba 21:46:27 "But it was still pretty exciting stuff. Holy Zarquon, they said to one another, an infinitely powerful computer? It was like a thousand Christmases rolled into one. Program going to loop forever? You knew for a fact: this thing could execute an infinite loop in less than ten seconds. Brute force primality testing of every single integer in existence? Easy. Pi to the last digit? Piece of cake. Halting Problem? Sa-holved." 21:46:37 notable "pi to the last digit?" 21:47:28 ehird`, that guy is perhaps my favorite author. . . 21:47:36 pikhq, ditto 21:47:52 cherez: You may wish to join in on the Sam Hughes worship. 21:48:21 do we have to build him a shrine made out of nanobots or something? 21:48:33 "to the last" has a bit different connotation 21:48:50 What does it involve? 21:49:18 oerjan, "to the last digit" 21:49:27 oerjan, If it can compute up to that -- it can display it 21:49:43 oerjan, The whole machine is impossible to *start* with - it can do impossible things 21:50:51 Pi to any arbitrary digit maybe, but to the last is meaningless. 21:51:06 "Pi to the last digit? Piece of cake." 21:51:08 >last< 21:51:18 it doesn't have a last digit 21:51:22 Anyway, a computer with infinite power is meaningless in the first place 21:51:26 bsmntbombdood, i am well aware 21:51:44 bsmntbombdood, but this is clearly in an alternate universe where the impossible is possible 21:52:02 thus, it would be possible to get the last digit of pi... even though that is meaningless, which is why it's *fiction* 21:52:30 that's like saying it can find the largest integer 21:52:40 One would assume that that means that it calculates all of pi (and displays it infinitely small). 21:53:13 And in the context that they discuss it, one would assume that they mean that unliterally. . . 21:53:18 Sure. 21:53:23 But taking unliterally things literally is fun. 21:53:29 True. 21:53:48 Of course, this is why infinite calculation is such a bizzare paradox: 21:54:05 Computing all of pi requires it to terminate. It will terminate when the last calculation is done. Thus, at some point, it decides it knows the last digit of pi. 21:54:52 Am I the only one who finds primality testing of every integer more interesting? 21:55:06 Yeah. 21:55:08 :p 21:56:39 mm this "haskell" thing is impossible to debug 21:56:42 :| 21:56:46 I prefer the idea of a superTuring system. 21:57:59 the existence of superturing systems doesn't contradict logic 21:58:05 the existence of the last digit of pi contradicts logic 21:58:09 cherez, I'd like to know the sum of N! 21:58:17 things that contradict logic are inherently boring because they're all equivalent 21:58:37 lament, the existance of anything that can compute infinites in less than infinite time and thus have infinite capability contradicts logic 21:58:41 so saying "calculate pi to the last digit" is equivalent to saying "round square", etc 21:58:48 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:58:58 ehird`: no it doesn't, actually. 21:59:16 ehird`: i'm using "logic" in the strict mathematical sense. 21:59:23 yes. 21:59:33 There is one way for one to calculate pi to the last digit. 22:00:03 If this infinity machine proves that, in fact, pi is *not* an irrational number, then it can find Pi's last digit trivially. 22:00:41 but it can't prove that, since it's already been disproven. 22:01:28 Incompleteness theorem. 22:01:29 Even if it disproves the validity of those? 22:01:53 cherez: what 22:01:58 Hmm. 22:02:13 Instead, just ask the thing for an *elegant* proof of Fermat's last theorem. 22:02:15 An arithmetic mathematic system cannot be proven to be internally consistent. 22:02:18 Now *that* would be interesting. . . 22:03:27 It's conceivable that a contradiction could be found in basic arithmetic which could mean we have to throw the whole thing out. 22:04:34 true. 22:06:22 numbers above 10^40 might be inconsistent... 22:07:07 I doubt it would be anything like that, but it can't be proven with our mathematics system. 22:08:05 oerjan, um, why? 22:08:15 10^40 + 1 = universe collapses! 22:08:43 >>> 10**40+1 22:08:43 10000000000000000000000000000000000000001L 22:08:51 We're ok, guys! 22:08:51 zomg 22:09:05 Wait, I think my closet collapsed. 22:09:07 because! 22:09:17 no, not all numbers but _some_ 22:09:34 phew thank god i solved the problem! 22:09:42 We can't prove that they don't. 22:09:48 i had to use endBy1 instead of sepBy1 22:10:21 lament, the HALTING problem??!1111 22:10:46 Parsec's power is immense. 22:10:58 * pikhq proposes a new Nobel prize. . . 22:11:06 The Nobel DidTheImpossible prize. 22:11:09 I think it's called the Turing prize. 22:11:22 No, that's for AI. 22:11:29 Good. 22:11:44 It would be unfair to give a guy Turing's award for stealing Turing's unsolvable problem. 22:11:44 and the first winner of Nobel DidTheImpossible prize is... a speck of dust! 22:11:53 then whoever awarded that wins the didtheimpossible award 22:11:53 Of course, if you discover an AI that solves the halting problem, then you win. 22:11:56 ad infinium 22:12:02 i think it should be the Adams prize 22:12:35 I'm pretty sure the halting problem is provably unsolvable. 22:12:45 At least in the most general sense. 22:12:45 I'm pretty sure it's been proven 22:13:20 At least, a program that can analyze whether it itself halts is contradictory. 22:13:29 Halt if and only if it doesn't halt. 22:14:01 You can solve the halting problem for any arbitrary machine with finite memory. 22:14:18 Using a machine with greater memory, of course. 22:14:48 Right, just run it until the state repeats or it halts, recording each state as you go. 22:14:58 the max shifts function is computable on machines with finite memorys 22:15:59 The Busy Beaver function? 22:16:04 woohoo i wrote my first parser 22:16:10 (in parsec) 22:18:37 Now make it self-hosting. 22:19:06 interpreters are self-hosting, not parsers 22:19:36 that would sort of defeat the purpose of using parsec 22:19:43 He's just being evil. ;) 22:20:12 It should at least be able to parse its own code. 22:20:54 * oerjan makes note to self: never run your own universe as a simulation. 22:21:40 cherez: it doesn't parse anything attempting to be a turing-complete language. 22:21:59 although i suppose you don't need turing-completeness to be a parser. 22:22:00 I'm back 22:22:10 woohoo 22:22:12 it's alive! 22:22:28 pikhq: dayum. It seemed intuitive that the algo I described could work... hm. 22:22:36 Who attempts to be Turing-complete? 22:22:40 RodgerTheGreat: I may have done something horridly wrong. 22:23:07 I'll do some work on it once I get my compiler off it's feet 22:23:17 Looking at it some more, I'm sure that I did. . . 22:23:20 a3 8.0} {a1 9.5} {a2 10.0} {call_itoa 21.0} {i 21.5} {temp2 24.75} {temp0 318.25} {temp1 283.25} {temp4 55.5} {opcode 41.25} {temp3 33.75} {no_match 25.25} {temp2 24.75} 22:23:32 +- is 1, ., is 0.5, [] is 0.25 22:24:32 tweaking your weighting values around a bit ought to at least help 22:25:30 why would you want anything but +- counted? 22:25:48 The issue is that it's not actually getting the variable location assignment right. 22:26:01 ah 22:26:23 oerjan: It's measuring cell accesses, weighted towards +-. 22:26:26 oerjan: because all operations done with a cell indicate it's being used for something 22:26:49 we're trying to rank things based on how often they're used 22:26:53 Why not measure the number of times each cell has to be reached? 22:27:05 hm. that is a point 22:27:06 oh, i thought you were just concerned with program length 22:27:30 Got a simple way to make a sorted list go to having the highest things in the center? 22:27:49 a fucked up bubblesort. :D 22:27:51 Like, from "5 4 3 2 1" to "1 3 5 4 2" 22:27:52 If 1 cell is incremented a ton of times then left to rot, it only is a block in the middle. 22:28:04 cherez: You have a point. 22:28:11 And belongs on an edge. 22:28:21 pikhq: actually, take the second half of the list and flip it 22:28:27 I'd count the number of nonconsecutive accesses. 22:28:32 then you have low to high to low 22:28:34 ish 22:28:37 RodgerTheGreat: Tried. 22:28:42 damn 22:29:00 On my example, that produces "5 4 1 2 3" or "1 2 5 4 3" 22:29:25 sort them and then start a new list, and then insert them, in order, to the center of the new list 22:29:34 then it should grow outwards from the center 22:29:46 use a Vector of some kind 22:30:28 There's a though. 22:30:37 Are we trying to produce the shortest BF? 22:30:45 Just a sec while I experiment with cherez's idea. 22:30:49 Yeah. 22:30:52 yes. cell access optimization 22:31:13 Since compiling it to C you can easily reference any pointer in 1 line. 22:31:59 In C, it doesn't matter. 22:33:34 RodgerTheGreat, hey 22:33:40 hey 22:33:47 i wrote some stuff about mvldo http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 22:33:49 looking good so far on the wiki 22:33:52 ah 22:33:54 you've read it :) 22:33:56 ok 22:34:01 :) 22:35:53 {opcode 69} {temp2 0} {call_itoa 0} {temp3 0} {no_match 0} {temp4 0} {i 0} {a1 0} {a2 0} {a3 0} {temp0 0} {temp1 0} 22:35:57 That can't be right. . . 22:36:15 Oh. Did it wrong. XD 22:36:30 RodgerTheGreat, anything you'd suggest changing/adding? 22:36:37 Freudian slip? 22:36:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:37:16 cherez, what where 22:37:33 ehird`: aside from additional content I dunno... a cool logo of some kind for the top left corner? 22:37:39 {opcode 69} {temp2 0} {call_itoa 0} {temp3 0} {no_match 0} {temp4 0} {i 0} {a1 0} {a2 0} {a3 0} {temp0 0} {temp1 0} 22:37:49 RodgerTheGreat, heh, i meant in terms of the actual bot design :) 22:37:52 cherez, ah 22:37:53 We know what pikhq programmed his compiler to do. 22:37:54 oh, yes. "LOL 69" 22:38:09 I was talking about the 0 you perv. 22:38:17 i think i shall laugh whenever the number 4 comes up. 22:38:19 why? 22:38:26 because it's the number i laugh at when it comes up, obviously! 22:38:39 Odd. 22:38:52 ehird`: are you going to be using markov chains? 22:38:55 Is the code too optimum? 22:38:59 Somehow, gotos to opcode are now *not* being counted, but gotos to everything else *are*. 22:39:03 RodgerTheGreat, no, we've already discussed that :p 22:39:15 * pikhq uses goto to mean "go to a memory location" in PEBBLE, BTW 22:39:35 RodgerTheGreat, see the Response page 22:40:44 "You can almost taste the peer pressure, can't you?" 22:40:57 My stupidity. 22:41:50 RodgerTheGreat, :) 22:42:15 pikhq: what's borked? 22:42:17 with enough persuasion, it will believe 2+2=5! 22:42:43 RodgerTheGreat: I just forgot to keep track of the location in the varopt pass. 22:42:57 ah 22:43:27 Now, we're still getting something inefficient. . . 22:43:41 Maybe measure the distant it has to move? 22:43:58 is it somewhat less horrible, at least? 22:44:15 OOoooh 22:44:18 idea- 22:44:36 we could represent mappings of locations as a graph structure 22:44:48 It's behaving as I expect, at least. 22:44:56 each variable keeps track of others that are accessed before or afterwards 22:45:22 Forgetfulness has a typo! 22:45:31 Clearly wikis aren't a reliable source of information. 22:46:23 cherez, oh no 22:46:27 well fix it then =p 22:46:54 -!- immibis has joined. 22:46:55 Can't you see I represent traditionalist views of knowledge! 22:47:39 It would be against my character to try to fix a wiki when I can instead condemn it and try to sell my $50 textbook. 22:48:36 speaking of textbooks, who's interested in some lucrative deals? Who'll bid on a copy of "The C++ Programming Language"? 22:49:07 $4 22:49:22 [reserve not met] 22:49:26 $891 22:49:35 haha c++ 22:49:48 if i ever write a C compiler 22:49:49 $15.88 22:49:52 this will be an easter egg: 22:49:54 yeah, fuck this language and in particular fuck this book 22:50:14 What did the book do? 22:50:15 typedef language int; language C = ; C++; /* rest of program is in C++ */ 22:50:45 er, isn't thaat 22:50:47 oops 22:50:52 you mean typedef int language; 22:51:12 cherez: it's poorly written, while still conveying a mindblowing degree of smugness in the forging of this stillbirth of a language 22:51:12 That would be a lot of extra work for an easter egg. 22:51:25 language C=C++; ? 22:51:40 what would C be then? 22:51:42 Ya, I'd be embarrassed if I made C++. 22:51:48 Bad theory. . . 22:52:02 I'm slowly warming up to C proper, though, I must say 22:52:12 how about just 22:52:18 c is so much better than c++ 22:52:18 language C++; 22:52:23 where C is something 22:52:23 nah 22:52:26 not easter-eggy enough 22:52:32 i need something that's valid C code 22:52:35 I consider C a poorly designed language, but C++ compounds it with mind-numbing degrees of idiocy 22:52:45 perfectly valid C code containing C++ 22:52:48 such as what? 22:52:51 language C=C++; is valid but undefined. 22:52:52 C isn't poorly designed 22:53:03 it's very nice for it's purpose 22:53:08 C wasn't poorly designed when it was initially made 22:53:37 //This is C++ 22:53:39 that's valid c 22:53:43 and it contains C++ 22:53:54 immibis, har har har 22:53:58 cherez, undefined = :( 22:54:13 anyway 22:54:15 that's 22:54:18 language C = (C += 1) 22:54:22 well, kind of 22:54:24 ++C would be that 22:54:27 but either way 22:54:32 its not just undefined; its completely meaningless 22:54:49 Which is why it's a good easter egg. 22:54:53 language C=C+1; 22:54:57 No one will code like that seriously. 22:55:11 C+=C++ + ++C; 22:55:20 If they do, they probably meant to use C++ anyway. 22:55:50 C+=C++ + ++C - (C -= C-- - --C) 22:56:09 what's unclear is whether C = C++ should compile to: 22:56:23 temp = C 22:56:23 C++ 22:56:23 C = temp 22:56:27 or 22:56:31 C+=C++ + ++C - C-- - --C 22:56:35 temp = C 22:56:35 C = temp 22:56:35 C++ 22:56:35 okay, how about: 22:56:48 int C = (language)<89 or 99>; 22:56:49 C++; 22:56:54 /* IN C++ */ 22:57:00 it's the casting to (language) y'see. 22:57:18 probably temp=C, C=temp, C++ 22:57:25 int C = (language)<89 or 99 or k&r> 22:57:48 int k=rand(); int r=rand(); 22:57:51 immibis: It can mean either, and compilers have been written that assumed both. 22:57:54 you need to define k&r first 22:58:00 One compiler produced C = C + 2 somehow. 22:58:26 cherez, the <> is metaphorical 22:58:31 you put whatever C version you're compiling in there 22:58:44 i.e. "int C = (language)89" C is the language I am using, it is C89 22:58:46 C++ -> zoom 22:59:01 you need brackets. (C++)->zoom, don't you? 22:59:18 -!- jix has joined. 22:59:22 struct {int zoom;} *C; 23:00:13 no 23:00:17 what i mean is: 23:00:19 C++ means zoom 23:00:25 So: 23:00:25 well at least you need to define C first. 23:00:31 /* using C89 */ 23:00:35 int C = (language)89; 23:00:36 C++; 23:00:40 /* using C++ */ 23:00:43 struct {int zoom;} *C; C++ -> zoom 23:00:52 i didn't mean zoom in that way 23:00:55 it was a diagram 23:00:59 "C++" -> zoom 23:01:14 you can't use -> on a string 23:01:41 only on a class, struct, or union 23:01:50 w00t. . . 23:01:59 Finally got variable assignment down to something sane. 23:02:22 immibis, stop that! 23:02:23 Unfortunately, *still* elongating programs. 23:02:25 you know what I meant!!!! 23:02:32 4866 vs. 4558. 23:02:34 it was an arrow of illustration! not a peice of code!! 23:02:37 ok 23:02:54 486 23:02:56 oops 23:03:10 pikhq, does pebble allow macros to compute something at compile time? 23:03:16 {a1 9} {i 24} {call_itoa 27} {opcode 43} {temp4 68} {temp1 271} {temp0 252} {temp3 45} {temp2 35} {no_match 25} {a2 10} {a3 8} 23:03:19 and if so does it have a push_brainfuck_code_to_src or similar? 23:03:22 ehird`: Not really. 23:03:27 Just think of it as 7% worse. 23:03:29 if so, you can implement subroutines and just about anything in itself 23:03:53 It's not that complex of a macro language. 23:04:06 Think "C preprocessor", not "Lisp macros". 23:04:13 Is that using the weighting method I suggested? 23:04:20 Yeah. 23:04:28 Each goto counts as 1. 23:04:34 And now it's got each bit centralised. 23:04:49 Let's see how it works on my game, which is much more naive. . . 23:04:52 pikhq, i was thinking of implementing, like, a function system in it 23:04:55 using a stack and stuff. 23:05:26 sub would be a macro which compiled some stack-stuff to push the function, then it'd create the function's name as a macro which would expand to the calling code 23:05:45 i guess maybe i could do that using low-level commands? 23:06:01 Maybe. . . 23:06:24 The naive game is 41177 chars with optimisation, and 37324 without. 23:06:45 I think that I'm better at figuring what's good out than my compiler is. 23:08:10 RodgerTheGreat: Didn't you suggest something about fiddling with sequential access? 23:08:30 kinda 23:08:34 (that'd be much harder to implement, but I bet it'd be a bit more efficient) 23:08:42 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:09:53 -!- sebbu3 has quit ("@+"). 23:26:40 damn. Programming requires thinking. 23:27:15 suprise suprise 23:27:22 :( 23:27:26 bsmntbombdood: how's haskell going? 23:27:44 not studying right now 23:29:02 when you get the basics, look at parsec ( http://legacy.cs.uu.nl/daan/download/parsec/parsec.html ) and you'll realize how awesome haskell is. 23:29:23 ok 23:29:59 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:37:31 http://www.wired.com/culture/education/news/2007/08/winniecooper_QA 23:38:14 vlech 23:38:45 *blech 23:42:56 that's so cool 23:50:06 -!- pikhq has changed nick to pikhq_. 23:50:43 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 2007-08-04: 00:30:43 lament: I'm rather on the fence about that book 00:33:51 that's better than "blech" :) 01:21:10 -!- ihope has joined. 01:24:26 pikhq, is pebble a language which compiles into brainfuck code? 01:24:34 immibis: Yeah. 01:24:52 also: did you mean 41177 chars WITHOUT optimization and 37324 WITH? 01:25:11 No. The "optimization" that I was experimenting with was ineffective. 01:25:45 overy 01:25:50 *very 01:26:09 does it eliminate '<>' and '+-' constructs and loops that never happen? 01:26:11 Unless I can get the *idea* to be effective, I'm sure as hell not committing. 01:26:23 eg +[,.][+++++++++.] 01:26:29 No, that's the effective one that's been in for 5 months or so. 01:26:48 What I was trying to do was rearrange the variable locations for size. 01:26:56 ok 01:27:09 I pondered a BF optimizer there for a moment. Now I know why I decided against it... 01:30:30 i don't think there's much optimization you can do that's not easy to do by hand 01:30:41 Depends on the program. 01:31:32 Something the size of LostKng.b? 01:32:23 I imagine that one's pretty big. 01:32:45 Yeah. 01:36:35 How big? 01:36:48 About a megabyte. 01:37:00 of brainfuck? 01:37:06 * pikhq nods 01:37:09 O.o 01:37:21 machine generated, i hope 01:37:28 It was written in BFBASIC. 01:53:16 * immibis gets ghosted 01:53:30 -!- immibis has quit ("If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments"). 01:53:43 -!- immibis has joined. 01:53:59 * immibis gets ghosted 01:54:03 or whatever you call it 01:54:05 * disconnected 01:54:55 bsmntbombdood: it may be easy to do certain bf optimizations by hand, but doing it by a computer program would be faster 01:58:53 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 02:11:02 and anyway, if you're using a meta-language that compiles into BF, it's best to have it manage as much of it's own internal optimization as possible, eh? 02:11:07 hey, gregor 02:11:29 Florp. 02:11:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:14:56 Fleep. 02:18:42 Been playing Super Paper Mario? :P 02:18:48 No. 02:18:55 Does Super Mario Bros. 3 come close? 02:20:48 GregorR-L: BTW, I've got an idea. . . 02:20:56 Damn. 02:20:58 :P 02:20:58 Do Not Put The Baby In The BlendTec Blender. 02:26:36 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to GregorR[Dead]. 02:26:56 ??? 02:27:37 dang 02:27:44 Who killed him? 02:27:45 You would have had to be in #d :P 02:27:47 Odin did. 02:28:08 Death by Norse God? 02:28:44 Yup 02:30:05 http://www.pastebin.ca/644975 02:30:58 LMAO 02:38:51 -!- GregorR[Dead] has changed nick to GregorR-L. 02:52:27 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 02:55:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:58:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 03:48:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:58:12 -!- immibis has quit ("Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"). 04:07:54 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("restarting X, brb"). 04:14:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:15:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:17:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:17:58 -!- calamari has joined. 04:25:38 * bsmntbombdood eats calamari 04:25:40 * bsmntbombdood gags 04:27:14 hi 04:27:42 you are really gross looking on the inside.. did you know that? 04:28:54 just wait untill my digestive juices get to work on you, then you'll be the gross one 04:29:21 You'll still be gross, just without commentors. 04:38:44 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 05:55:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gtg"). 06:04:02 -!- Shel2476 has joined. 06:18:10 -!- Shel2476 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:06:04 -!- Figs has joined. 07:06:06 hello 07:08:27 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:22:21 -!- Figs has left (?). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:12:11 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:13:34 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:28:21 -!- immibis has joined. 08:31:19 10^10 bots? 08:31:30 who set the topic? gaim won't show me. 08:31:36 -!- immibis has set topic: #esoteric. 08:31:38 oops 08:31:41 stupid gaim 08:32:22 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 08:33:07 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 3. NO BOTS! 4. Bring your bot. 5. bsmnt_bot is allowed, as is EgoBot. 6. toBogE is not allowed.. 08:33:41 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 09:10:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:10:47 Hi! 09:45:18 -!- immibis has left (?). 09:48:42 Anybody? 09:48:43 ramrod? 09:49:26 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:39:18 -!- jix has joined. 11:02:11 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 11:28:04 -!- asiekierka has quit. 12:29:03 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving"). 12:29:10 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:30:44 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:31:05 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:37:43 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving"). 12:38:07 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:39:46 -!- helios24 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:40:06 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:40:29 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:41:26 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:42:01 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:42:27 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:46:28 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:47:40 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:50:28 -!- helios24 has quit (Client Quit). 12:53:36 -!- helios24 has joined. 13:05:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:37:51 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 13:40:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:53:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:53:21 -!- jix has joined. 14:15:32 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 14:18:30 -!- jix has joined. 14:26:27 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:28:22 -!- jix has joined. 14:34:21 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:36:19 -!- jix has joined. 14:56:16 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:58:28 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:01:20 -!- jix has joined. 15:06:02 * SimonRC watches the first-poster youtube video 15:30:24 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:49:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:04:59 -!- xerxesv5 has joined. 16:06:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:18:01 -!- xerxesv5 has left (?). 16:42:15 -!- Blejdfizt has changed nick to Blejdfist. 17:03:27 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:10:45 RodgerTheGreat, you alive? 17:11:49 Hmm. Proof-checking is decidable, right? 17:12:14 I just came up with a problem 17:13:41 You might try solving the halting problem with a machine that tries out all possible proofs in order until one of them proves that the input halts or does not halt. 17:13:50 This seems possible. 17:14:32 Interestingly, the machine halts if and only if there is a proof. 17:14:44 So what does the machine do when given itself as input. 17:15:09 oops 17:15:19 ah, waitamo... 17:15:45 Ah, wait, it halts. 17:16:26 obviously 17:16:42 If it halts, then there is a trivial proof that it halts (the trace)... 17:16:52 erm 17:16:55 hmm, what about one with the halting-problem-paradox 17:17:03 well, it would have to be a quine-like construct, but yes 17:17:09 ehird`: I was coming to that 17:17:11 p(i) = if halts(p, i) loop_forever end 17:18:44 If the first part halts, then it must prove that the whole does not halt, then it will procede to indeed not halt. 17:19:11 so what does halts(p, p) return 17:19:18 translated to that language, that is 17:19:21 if the first part does not halt, then the whole will not halt, which means there is a proof that the whole does not halt, which means that the first part halts, which is a contradiction 17:19:28 right 17:19:31 but what does it actually say =) 17:19:37 huh? 17:19:41 fuck knows 17:19:46 oh 17:19:50 so you haven't actually coded it yet :) 17:19:53 probably that, but longer 17:20:01 it's simple enough to code... 17:20:12 but the runtime is, um, long 17:20:21 like, exponential in size of proof 17:20:53 yow 17:21:12 you just take an existing theorem prover, and write a wrapper that adds the axioms that define the machine 17:21:34 ehird`: assuming that the proof-checker is less than exponential 17:21:45 :/ 17:21:46 well, I can;t find the problem I thought was there 17:23:11 Oh, there is also the possibility that the machine does not halt but can't prove it. 17:24:51 but such things are hard to find, because there aren't many things we can show true without using a proof that the machine itself would find 17:24:55 hmm 17:25:37 This machine is good for all kinds of things. 17:26:32 For example, I think it shows that there is a Busy Beaver number that we cannot put an upper bound on. 17:27:47 If there were no such number, then the machine would be able to compute every Busy Beaver number, and thereby solve the Halting Problem. 17:29:03 (Note: BB numbers give you a time limit beyond which you can give up on a turing machine, thereby guaranteeing that you can solve the halting problem.) 17:29:29 Maybe I am missing something, 17:32:20 ESOTERIC LANGUAGE IDEA #647: hammerspace-based language 17:32:26 you can't access memory or whatever directly 17:32:30 just a "kind" of memory" 17:32:38 instead of "i want hammer #324575465", "i want a hammer" 17:38:01 isn't that how object oriented langs work 17:38:35 not really 17:38:36 i mean 17:38:39 instead of memory 17:38:41 you can say 17:38:50 "make a hammer" 17:38:54 but then you can't do something with THAT hammer 17:38:58 you can just say "i want a hammer" 17:39:04 and it'll give you a hammer; any hammer 17:39:49 so, not very helpful 17:40:20 are esoteric languages meant to be 17:40:24 not sure how that's different from the usual OO languages 17:40:31 Not even slightly usable. 17:41:42 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:43:48 -!- jix has joined. 18:12:31 -!- helios24 has quit ("leaving"). 18:13:26 -!- helios24 has joined. 19:07:53 -!- asiekierka has joined. 19:07:55 Hi! 19:16:41 Sal'. 19:17:34 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:18:00 {M[m(_o)O!"Would you like some glass?"(_o)o.?]} 19:33:32 no 19:33:39 what language is THAT 19:34:23 Glass. 19:34:53 Just an object-oriented RPN language, curtesy of Gregor. 19:39:39 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.01.15 19:45:29 !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Would you like some glass?"(_o)o.?]} 19:45:33 humph 19:53:34 Egobot's not here. 19:54:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:03:40 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:03:54 -!- jix has joined. 21:20:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 21:32:10 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:05:07 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 22:31:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:35:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:58:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:09:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:11:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 23:41:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to xor. 23:44:01 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 23:44:54 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has left (?). 2007-08-05: 00:00:18 xor, are you a new generation of irp? 00:00:23 xor: 1 2 00:22:28 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:39:11 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:03:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:04:13 Hmm. . . 01:04:19 A new person for our insanity to rub off on? 01:06:04 -!- peek_you has joined. 01:06:18 . . . Or someone with more than one IRC client. 01:22:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:26:25 ,[.,] 01:29:26 -!- peek_you has changed nick to poiuy_qwert. 01:29:50 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:44:02 -!- peek_you has joined. 01:56:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:29:30 -!- peek_you has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:45:37 [set ::pikhq::ACT_score 33] 03:17:36 O.o 03:17:45 is the act out of 1600 points? 03:18:24 36. 03:19:06 oh ok 03:33:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:35:46 -!- Shel2476 has joined. 03:38:53 'Lo. 03:51:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("rebooting to remove defunct modules from system, brb"). 03:54:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:58:18 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:46:02 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:52:43 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 06:54:00 -!- cherez has joined. 06:54:45 -!- cherez has quit (Client Quit). 06:59:02 -!- cherez has joined. 07:18:19 -!- Shel2476 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:12:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:15:42 -!- jix has joined. 10:08:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:15:58 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gnight"). 10:50:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:55:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:55:06 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:55:45 -!- tokigun has joined. 13:28:59 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 14:50:15 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 14:50:35 hi everyone 15:23:27 hi 15:25:06 hello, SimonRC 15:27:26 -!- sekhmet has joined. 15:30:14 RodgerTheGreat: did you read the newest xkcd? 15:30:31 haha- yes, a nightmare indeed 15:30:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:31:23 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:31:53 RodgerTheGreat: The forums contain two sorts of people: those who think it would be great and those who think it would be terrible. 15:32:04 I am definitely the latter type 15:32:20 yeah- I flipped through the individual comic thread 15:32:31 I am in agreement with you sir 15:32:53 I alarmed myself by realising I was thinking like the Catholic chruch confronting geocentrism. 15:33:42 I'm sure i would be comparable to how religious people would feel if there was a clear, instantly understandable and recognizable proof for the non-existence of god. 15:33:44 what would? 15:33:49 what would be terrible 15:33:57 (not featuring a puff of logic) 15:34:03 where what how 15:34:07 http://www.xkcd.com/ 15:34:23 oh, the thread discussing science suddenly being discovered not to work 15:34:25 and what it would be like? 15:34:39 the discussion thread for that comic 15:34:42 yes 15:34:57 i think it would be awesome :p 15:35:03 why? 15:35:14 explain your reasoning 15:36:37 i have none 15:36:42 Slartibartfast: "I would rather be happy that right, any day." || Arthur: "And are you?" || S.: "No, that's where it all falls down I'm afraid." 15:36:50 *than 15:36:52 i'd just like to see science turn out to be utterly and completely wrong 15:37:06 :p 15:37:31 how do English people distinguish between the two meanings of "science"? 15:37:52 what are the two meanings 15:37:52 but consider for a moment that science is responsible for the level of comfort and safety you enjoy in our modern age 15:38:02 RodgerTheGreat, oh yes, i like science and all that 15:38:05 I think it's Science versus science 15:38:07 ehird`: the knowledge and the method 15:38:08 i'd just like it to be completely wrong 15:38:11 SimonRC, ah 15:38:19 ehird`: which one do you want to be wrong 15:38:27 SimonRC, hmm - both, for the hell of it 15:38:28 :-) 15:38:32 Science would be the method, science would be the community (in my thinking) 15:38:47 i would say scientific method 15:38:49 If the Method is wrong, then the world will be very strange indeed. 15:38:50 vs science 15:38:59 SimonRC, EXACTLY! 15:39:37 if the scientific method is flawed, and the universe *isn't* comprehensible, it'd be the most depressing thing I could think of 15:39:39 For a start, you would have little guarantee that much would be the same from one day to the next 15:39:45 RodgerTheGreat: indeed 15:40:01 to know that our reach is ultimately limited would be crushing 15:40:04 i'd think it was hilarious 15:40:04 Most stuff you like wouldn;t work 15:40:05 :D 15:40:24 e.g. food would not work consistantly 15:41:05 well it >does< 15:41:25 so even if it turned out to be wrong, we could live in the knowledge that for several billions of years nothing has actually changed much 15:41:29 If the knowledge is wrong but not the method, then we can cope rather better. 15:41:31 so >does< the scientific method 15:41:36 It's called "progress" 15:41:40 15:41:44 mörning all 15:41:48 hi, oklopol 15:41:57 nice o-umlaut you have there 15:42:08 oklopol: yay! You can produce the ö character correctly, unlike everyone else. 15:42:18 UTF-8 FTW 15:42:23 áéíóú 15:42:36 Ö RLY? 15:42:39 SimonRC: i kinda have it in my keyboard 15:42:42 ¿Qué? 15:42:44 :P 15:42:44 :-) 15:42:46 Hmm 15:42:50 I has an option key 15:42:50 ú 15:42:52 Hmm 15:42:54 ú 15:42:57 LOWER COMMA! 15:43:00 oklopol: often people use a non-good character set 15:43:09 those bastards 15:43:18 haha 15:43:24 e.g. 8-bit character-sets are non-good 15:43:25 uh, typing is so much easier than speaking 15:43:55 indeed. For example, pronounce: -6~8e5-y;e57)-p'0'-cD_c7#=-'^C_@6 15:44:54 which is made even worse because some people don't understand words like "dash" or "hash" or "carat" properly 15:45:05 not to mention "tilde" 15:46:22 ITYM "caret" 15:46:42 * SimonRC recalls calling that "tidal". 15:46:43 :-) 15:47:00 ah, fuck- you're right 15:47:04 thank you, SimonRC 15:47:20 * RodgerTheGreat begins cutting an incorrect piece of data out of his brain 15:47:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Nick collision from services.). 15:48:10 ouch 15:48:41 making fewer mistakes is worth the pain. It doesn't even hurt once you get through the skull, anyway 15:51:44 "Archos: screw religion, I'm trying to make a silencer!" <<< this is cool 15:51:51 lol 15:52:27 Archos was a lot of fun once he'd had a few days to soak up conversations 15:53:04 "was"? 15:53:18 well, I mean, he was eventually reset 15:53:33 I never made a system to save state, so that version of Archos "died" 15:53:48 is archos source code open? 15:54:49 I guess I could dredge it up, but I built it around the JMegaHal system: http://www.jibble.org/jmegahal/ 15:55:08 you'd probably have more fun coding something similar on your own 15:55:33 ah megahal 15:55:35 that markov chain thing 15:55:44 but markov chains are really shitty, aren't they? 15:55:48 i mean, they never produce coherent stuff, barely 15:55:51 mostly just nonsense? 15:56:18 well, the main thing I was doing with Archos was working on filtering the input and output for the chain 15:56:55 I achieved a fair amount of success making it more coherent 15:57:07 but it's ultimately still kinda random 16:00:23 english is too hard... why not make your own esoteric natural language for it to speak 16:00:55 maybe lojban# 16:01:00 lojban should be easy to generate 16:01:03 better idea 16:01:10 better idea: ask on #conlang 16:01:13 :p 16:01:13 yes, but less fun than making your own, naturally 16:01:23 but anyway 16:01:27 mvldo is meant to fool normal people 16:01:30 most people on irc skeep english 16:01:36 -!- ihope has joined. 16:04:28 skeep 16:04:30 i like that word 16:04:31 skeep! 16:05:02 me too 16:05:11 i assumed that was on purpose 16:06:10 i skeep english 16:07:11 skeeping english with a great pseed 16:07:19 i aslo like pseed 16:07:28 some words are better that way 16:14:42 I disargee. 16:17:11 "pseed" sounds like a unix program 16:17:19 maybe a system call 16:17:22 this has the good side of elinimating tpyos 16:17:49 i skeep english with a great pseed and with elinimated typos 16:32:13 RodgerTheGreat, do you think markov chains are part of the future of AI? 16:32:17 or are they not worth it? 16:32:23 dunno 16:32:37 they're cheap and easy to make, and have a good return on invested coding time 16:34:33 but are they worth it for the downsides? 16:35:47 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:38:30 I think Markov chains as they are are not very useful. 16:38:45 Not very useful for "the future of AI", that is. 16:39:18 By the way, text-to-speech is silly. How, exactly, is "I think that green goo should not be eaten" pronounced? 16:39:25 And, for that matter, what, exactly, does it mean? 16:39:36 what good alternatives are there for sentence construction? 16:39:37 to markov chains 16:40:04 Markov chains assume that language is... flat. 16:40:23 That each construct is merely a certain type of word followed by some other construct. 16:41:01 there must be a way to generalize it to a parsetree 16:41:07 Indeed. 16:41:12 Can't be too hard. 16:41:15 the first step would be lojban 16:41:19 as lojban can be unambigiously parsed 16:41:22 First, though, come up with a good way to describe English syntax. 16:41:29 there are already many ways 16:41:47 I should look at Lojban. Does it have things like emphasis? 16:41:55 in what way? 16:42:04 it's a full language that can express anything english or anything else can 16:42:07 and it's unambigious 16:42:14 and without exceptions to rules 16:42:25 lojban.org 16:44:10 So there's a Lojban sentence meaning "What in the world IS 'pink' ice cream"? 16:46:42 Um, yes, I'd imagine so 16:47:03 Or at least an approximation 16:47:18 ask in #lojban 16:50:54 :) 19:07:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:42:36 Lojban is easy to parse, for that matter. 19:42:52 Step one of writing the parser: Download the Lojban Reference Grammar. 19:42:56 Step two: compile it. 19:43:47 yes 19:43:55 which is why it would be a perfect target for generalized markov chains 19:44:04 Yeah. 19:44:14 i think a refined version of parse-tree-generalized markov chains is the future of sentence construction 19:44:15 imo 19:44:35 They're perfect for any Turing-test-relevant AI, for that matter. . . 19:44:52 what is? 19:44:58 parse-tree-generalized markov chains? 19:45:05 Err. No. . . . 19:45:08 oh 19:45:12 s/they're/it's/ 19:45:26 ah 19:45:27 lojban 19:45:31 well yeah 19:45:33 Lojban, or any other language with a regular grammar, is perfect for that. . . 19:45:35 but englihs generation isn't that hard, you know? 19:45:38 *english 19:45:44 i mean, lesser than other problems in AI 19:45:45 certainly 19:54:39 People who investigsated `Lojban' also investigated `Ithkuil'. 20:03:23 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:03:37 -!- jix__ has joined. 20:08:52 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:14:59 Lojban, Ithkuil and Ilaksh. 20:15:37 Is Ithkuil the language where you say "Cthulhu rygel! Cthulhu rygel!"? 20:15:44 :p 20:16:03 i don't think so. 20:16:26 that might be Old R'lyehan, or something. 20:16:38 It's the one where "Oumpeá äx’ääuktëx" means "On the contrary, I think it may turn out that this rugged mountain range trails off at some point". 20:17:42 "Äx’ääuktëx" is really quite the word. 20:18:44 The whole sentence, spoken: http://home.inreach.com/sl2120/Sound_Files/Intro-1.mp3 20:19:36 Hmm, I left out a word. 20:20:46 Rather, a letter. 20:21:07 That should be "äx’ääluktëx", except with a cedilla below the l. 20:21:31 Ilaksh is a newer, mor pronouncible version 20:21:35 with extra tones! 20:22:20 More pronounceable indeed. 20:22:30 whatever 20:22:47 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:23:37 Though it's rather incomplete, no? 20:36:53 hmm... is there a nice ithkuil tutorial? if it has a thousand words, that's like insanely trivial to memorize 20:37:05 hmm... i think someone here already linked me one 20:37:08 some time ago 20:38:04 depends on what you mean by "word" 20:39:27 a token consisting of letters the meaning of which i have to learn 20:39:38 hmm 20:39:48 where 'which' refers to 'token' 20:39:57 In that case it has thousands and thousands of words 20:40:14 yes, but only 1000 or so primitives 20:40:32 but some of the derivations from those primitives is not obvious 20:40:53 lietk which way round "man" and "woman" are 20:41:22 anyway, i assume it doesn't have as many redundant synonyms as most languages 20:41:42 i'm a pretty assumptive person 20:41:50 i don't know squat about the language 20:44:45 It has *LOTS* of inflections. 20:45:18 maybe 10000 - 100000 forms of each word 20:47:42 well, once you add several types of inflections you generally multiply their number together, so 10000 - 100000 is not quite as impressive as it sounds. There might be natural languages with the same. 20:49:34 Anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-antidote! 20:49:48 Kingdom of Loathing taken... farther/further. 20:53:35 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:02:41 No person is hitherto known to be able to speak Ithkuil; its creator, for one, does not: “I don't speak Ithkuil, never have, never will, never claimed to.” 21:02:48 Ithkuil (Iţkuîl) is an outstandingly complicated human language constructed by the American linguist John Quijada between 1978 and 2004. 21:02:52 i don't think a tutorial is going to be very likely 21:03:05 yup 21:03:11 sounds boring 21:03:31 as far as i can tell 21:03:34 it's easy to make complicated things 21:03:35 nobody has even said "hello world" in it 21:03:43 making simple things is hard :) 21:03:52 RodgerTheGreat, would a neural network be useful for an ai bot? 21:03:56 combined with markov chains, maybe ? 21:04:04 maybe 21:04:07 ha 21:04:08 that could be interesting 21:04:12 err... so no one can speak it at all? i thought no one speaks it fluently 21:04:15 i think my modem was overheating 21:04:25 oklopol, nobody at all 21:04:27 by the looks of it 21:04:33 xor = bsmntbombdood! 21:04:42 good job 21:04:46 xor: 1 2 21:04:50 you and your poor xor encryption 21:04:51 your irp component still doesn't work :p 21:04:56 it was dropping connections every 2 or 3 seconds 21:05:06 RodgerTheGreat, I think it could help in sentence construction 21:05:18 ehird`: there's an example of it spoken in... ihope's link 21:05:28 which link 21:05:29 @ wikipedia that is 21:05:40 or potentially in allowing the bot to "learn" more in terms of high-level sentence construction 21:05:46 http://home.inreach.com/sl2120/Sound_Files/Intro-1.mp3 21:05:50 markov chains! 21:07:13 markov chains have disadvantages 21:07:21 now, if you combined markov chains and neural networks 21:07:27 plus some evolutionary technique 21:07:30 that should produce good stuff 21:07:52 as always, in theory 21:08:06 maybe with a teaching backdoor into a bot 21:08:07 so like 21:08:10 hello, bot! 21:08:16 oojamaflip gazunks 21:08:28 bot: !no hi user 21:08:29 I imagine this might be a bit like my memory optimization algorithm for PEBBLE. Brilliant in concept, miserable failure in execution. 21:08:45 !no X meaning "your last response to me was wrong, it should have been X" 21:08:48 and indeed 21:08:52 but the only way to figure out is to try 21:08:55 Teaching backdoor... I like that. 21:09:16 What's this PEBBLE thing all about? 21:09:18 Of course, I think your bit about *sequential access* could be much more useful. 21:09:29 pebble is a high level language compiling to brainfuck 21:09:30 pikhq's. 21:09:46 well, if your evolutionary technique includes simulating a small planet, you might get somewhere. 21:10:03 in just a few billion years 21:10:37 no, no 21:10:41 response evolution 21:10:45 not organism evolution 21:10:46 sheesh 21:10:59 combined with survival of the fittest 21:11:20 i'd say organism evolution has a better track record - at least one success 21:11:25 yeah, oerjan, that was very stupid of your, trying to make a joke 21:11:29 *you 21:11:37 "ok, this response X does badly, but this other one Y does well, and a part of the response X is also in another response which does badly. So, replace that part of X with the corresponding one in Y" 21:11:39 something like that 21:11:40 What counts as a success when it comes to response evolution? 21:11:46 oklopol, :p 21:12:11 Creation of intelligence? 21:12:32 ihope: i guess success is the lack of !no 21:12:34 or something 21:12:46 !no isn't necessary, surely. 21:13:03 I want non-Terran intelligence. 21:13:14 well, there has to be some primitive that indicates success. 21:13:20 Too bad it's impossible to create. 21:13:35 honestly, the only way to test all of this is to implement it 21:13:48 who codes java and wants push rights to the mvldo hg repo :) 21:14:38 What's an hg repo? 21:14:51 a code repository of the mercurial format 21:14:55 Or a hg repo, be it so. 21:14:56 mvldo hg repo huldv grps mdfmd ofol 21:15:00 * pikhq contemplates adding sequential access to PEBBLE. . . 21:15:01 hg/mercurial = like svn, but distrobuted 21:15:02 i can make up words too 21:15:10 distrobuted = there's not one central repository. 21:15:16 every single copy contains the entire repo history 21:15:18 oklopol: y's cn ym! 21:15:21 all the commiting is local 21:15:28 and you share changes by "pushing" your updates somewhere 21:15:30 it's great 21:15:39 http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/ 21:15:42 it's really easy to use 21:18:14 but anyway, yeah 21:18:17 push rights to mvldo's 21:18:35 mercurial is non-terran, isn't it? might get somewhere there. 21:19:40 If it's not Terran, then what is it? 21:21:42 but anyway, if someone wants push rights and knows java etc. just shout 21:21:59 shout 21:22:00 then, i guess, some rough design documents and little experiments 21:22:03 let it all out 21:22:03 then, the full stuff 21:22:13 these are the things we can do without 21:22:14 ... 21:22:15 err 21:22:19 * oerjan is shocked that ihope doesn't know about the planet Mercury. 21:22:41 come on 21:22:46 i'm a'talking to your 21:22:47 Mercurial is Mercury? 21:22:48 come on 21:23:00 *you 21:23:16 * oerjan is shocked that ihope doesn't know how nouns may be turned into adjectives. 21:24:00 Mercury has intelligence? 21:24:23 well, it might, if mercurial gets somewhere. 21:25:00 * oerjan realizes his joke must be _really_ awful if it requires this much explanation. 21:25:17 the best jokes are the ones no one ge4ts 21:25:21 *-4 21:27:12 Indeed. 21:27:14 I hate irony. 21:27:16 (joke above) 21:28:09 ihope xor ihope 21:28:46 Not in scope: `ihope' 21:29:24 xor: i think /me would allow a nice prefix way to to that 21:29:38 * ihope xor ihope 21:29:48 Or infix. 21:29:49 well, that too 21:30:05 Too bad prefix is sort of superior to infix. 21:30:26 prefix & postfix are, yeah 21:30:43 sexp! 21:31:08 really, xor, you are just using that term for the shock value 21:31:49 shock value? 21:32:22 It's like sex with a p on the end. 21:32:36 no, the real way is irp-style 21:32:38 xor: 1 2 21:32:47 interpret, you, damnit 21:32:50 fine 21:32:55 i'll be an irp execution station 21:32:58 -!- ehird` has changed nick to and. 21:33:08 ((lambda (ehird) (ehird ehird)) (lambda (ehird) (ehird ehird))) 21:33:12 someone perform an operation on me damnit" 21:33:14 and: x y 21:33:26 :P 21:33:30 and: ihope oklopol 21:33:32 or and: and: x y and: z a or something 21:33:36 oklopol 21:33:58 and: and: x z and: y z 21:34:00 i thought you'd give like a percentage 21:34:09 z 21:34:12 -!- and has changed nick to ifte. 21:34:16 ifte/ 21:34:19 ifte: cond true false 21:34:20 Er, ? 21:34:22 if then else 21:34:30 someone change nicks to and 21:34:39 quick =p 21:34:42 Um... 21:34:43 -!- ihope has changed nick to and. 21:34:56 No's mine but... wait. 21:35:01 ok, whenever you see "and: a b" if a is false return false otherwise return b. 21:35:07 and to return 21:35:17 say "whoever sent the message containing the and: retval" 21:35:18 ok 21:35:19 Er, wait, shouldn't we be using CPS? 21:35:24 Um, wait. 21:35:27 Lemme read that. 21:35:37 rpn is was better than unparenthized prefix 21:35:44 now, someone say "ifte: and: false true true false" 21:35:51 * oerjan wonders what is going on 21:36:07 ifte: and: false true true false 21:36:39 CALCULATION IN PROGRESS... 21:36:48 How slow. 21:36:54 hey, it's your turn 21:36:57 Oh? 21:36:58 you've recieved and: false true 21:37:02 and you have to return to ifte 21:37:07 ifte: false 21:37:08 ok, say that again oerjan :P 21:37:27 WAITING FOR INPUT... 21:37:33 ifte: i thought you would have to pass it on 21:37:38 ifte: and: false true true false 21:37:39 ah, yes, true 21:37:43 and: false true 21:37:47 ifte: false 21:37:53 oerjan: false 21:37:55 -!- ifte has changed nick to ehird`. 21:37:59 That was fun. 21:37:59 lol 21:38:01 -!- and has changed nick to ihope. 21:38:02 Maybe. 21:38:04 hooray! irp generation 2 has its foundings! 21:38:09 an infix-based message-passing language! 21:38:18 delagated computation 21:38:23 yes, whatever 21:38:24 :p 21:38:37 of course, lots of calculations would include random stuff 21:38:42 like if ifte finds a word it doesn't know 21:38:43 like and: 21:38:46 it'll have to say 21:38:50 and: paramcount 21:38:57 or similar, so it knows how many places to look ahead 21:38:59 but still :p 21:39:21 sexp is better 21:39:22 notably, this irp generation can have computer components and human components working together 21:39:32 xor: yes but sexp doesn't look like irc message 21:39:36 and: 1 2 looks like an irc message. 21:39:39 it is directed to and 21:40:20 there is a problem in that each operator must know the argument count of the others 21:40:27 read above 21:40:34 "operator: paramcount" or similar would be used 21:40:40 ah 21:40:41 then operator is expected to return the parameter count 21:40:49 then it could be stored in RAM, or something 21:41:07 when an operator changes paramcount 21:41:21 it must deny all further operations with an error, stating that you must ask paramcount again before it will accept 21:41:26 therefore, changes in paramcount propagate 21:43:46 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186346246.html two example irp sessions 21:43:59 * SimonRC reads up 21:44:03 note that both could have the non-usr operators as human, program, or mixed 21:44:06 it'd work fine 21:44:22 err 21:44:25 get should have get replying 21:44:25 not set 21:44:29 :) 21:44:37 obviously get/set would have to be the same person/program 21:45:36 and with at least one human operator involved somewhere in an expression, if e.g. 99 bottles of beer was being executed, that human user could give an error and stop it 21:47:14 (Depending on which review you read, darcs does distributed version control better than Mercury. Darcs uses branches for many purposes.) 21:47:25 the problem is that each operator has to be able to parse everything 21:48:28 SimonRC, everything is a branch in mercurial 21:48:36 xor, so what? 21:48:49 so, code is duplicated everywhere 21:49:14 and.. 21:49:30 each operator has large amounts of the same code 21:49:32 which is stupid 21:49:34 ehird`: Have a look at darcs then 21:50:08 in darcs, a source tree is just a set of patches applied to the empty tree 21:51:28 same with hg 21:51:59 Well, darcs was written by a quantum mechanic 21:53:29 i am aware 21:53:32 i used to use darcs. 21:53:37 but it is glacier-style slow 21:53:40 wht is the difference? 21:53:40 ehird`: That'd be IRP version 3, BTW. 21:53:49 pikhq, ? 21:53:53 darcs is only slow in a few cases 21:54:05 IRP version 2 was developed in #irp, with a bot assigning programs to programmers. 21:54:07 no - many 21:54:08 Some of the algorithms have SUPRISE exponential running times 21:54:19 pikhq, sounds bad :) 21:54:21 It also had a syntax to seperate programs & comments. 21:54:31 #irp3, gogogo 21:54:34 :D 21:54:42 [Please do foo, bar, and baz] 21:54:54 Job #1 requested by pikhq. 21:54:56 !accept 1 21:55:05 [:Foo, bar, and baz] 21:55:07 irp3 is betar! 21:55:12 therefore #irp3 is betar 21:55:14 Job #1 completed. 21:56:08 ok nobody likes #irp3 21:56:08 :p 21:57:22 :( 22:27:22 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 22:33:15 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:45:59 "IRP" is a trademark of GregorCorp and cannot be used without explicit written permission from Gregor Richards. 22:47:03 GregorCorp is fraudulent 22:47:08 i agree 22:47:25 get your butt into #irp3 and realise how awesome it is :p 22:48:13 it is a-maze-ing 22:49:26 :D 22:50:00 lynx is a-maze-ing 22:50:47 -!- ehird` has changed nick to ifte. 22:52:27 -!- ihope has changed nick to and. 22:52:43 -!- and has changed nick to ihope. 22:53:24 oi! someone go into #irp3 and run an expression 22:53:30 you can do ifte: x y z (if x then y else z) 22:53:37 -!- ihope has changed nick to and. 22:53:40 and and: x y (if x then y else x) 22:53:48 "and and"? 22:53:53 Oh. 22:53:53 and "and: x y" 22:53:55 you can enclose sub-expressions with () 22:53:58 * and nods 22:54:07 so ifte: (and: true false) true false is "if true and false then true else false" 22:54:12 now! get in there and run something! 22:55:14 -!- and has changed nick to ihope. 22:55:50 ... nobody wants to run an expression :( 22:55:52 () aren't needed 22:56:06 xor: to avoid !count they are 22:56:10 that's the whole point of prefix/postfix 22:56:14 ummm ok 22:56:16 parse this: 22:56:21 ifte: and: true false true false 22:56:25 you do not know how many arguments and takes 22:56:37 you have to 22:56:39 : is essentially an infix operator there. 22:56:44 exactly, xor 22:56:45 variadic functions aren't allowed... 22:56:50 err, its not just variadic 22:56:53 You could use a prefix operator instead. 22:56:56 its that there could be 100 operators you don't know about 22:57:06 and you cna't remember all their arity 22:57:07 so, ()s. 22:57:15 ...which is why it's a problem to have every operator do its own parser 22:57:28 oh, we'll just become a big centralized human called Man 22:57:32 and we'll ask Universal AC all our questions 22:57:36 simple, really 22:57:44 proc ifte {expr-arg} {set val [uplevel 1 expr $expr-arg];uplevel 1 expr {($val == 0 && $val == 1) ? 1 : 0}} 22:57:47 Hmm... 22:58:10 Actually, lemme sort of do something else for a while. 22:59:44 -!- oklofok has joined. 23:07:03 It's an oklokok! 23:07:56 hmm 23:08:18 oklofok: oklofok: oklopol: oklopol: oklopol: oklopol: oklopol: oklopol: oklofok: oklofok: oklopol 23:08:20 it's binary! 23:09:51 what am i now? 23:09:56 oklofok, okay. 23:11:04 ihope said something about koks and i got all confused 23:11:26 fok + pol = kok. 23:11:54 i did catch myself a girl during the excursion by the way, thanks for asking 23:12:06 not that anyone remembers what i said 2 weeks ago :P 23:12:21 1542 23:12:43 1542? isn't that the amount of different languages spoken in india? 23:12:49 oh, that's 1652 23:13:22 no it's the binary number ifte mentioned above 23:13:43 how do you know what was 0 and what was 1 23:13:55 you can assume it starts with 1... 23:14:01 exactly 23:14:10 unless it has 1 digits 23:14:49 i don't know what happens if there's a negative number of digits 23:14:56 it implodes 23:15:04 ah, obviously 23:15:15 antibinary 23:15:24 how do you know i wasn't using two's complement, also? :) 23:15:45 with 11 bits? 23:16:07 2's complement doesn't work with any number of digits? 23:16:48 well, in theory. 23:16:58 ah 23:17:00 i was more worried about getting endianness wrong 23:17:00 i see what you mean 23:17:48 yeah, you can prolly assume it's little endian and not two's complement if it doesn't have 2^n digits 23:17:50 err 23:18:05 i actually just guessed little endian, i never remember which is which 23:18:20 me neither 23:18:28 i have some issues with which-is-which-ishness 23:18:37 as i hear most people do 23:18:53 i vaguely recall that the end in case is actually the beginning 23:19:24 i.e. little endian means the _first_ bit is the least significant 23:19:52 yeah, so you just think little+end / big+end, and then reverse the meaning 23:20:22 little endian = ends with the littlest bit 23:20:26 oh 23:20:29 big endian = ends with the biggest bit 23:20:33 thus "endian" 23:20:42 it's a big ended number, so it's a big endian number 23:21:23 yep, but with the end being the first end 23:21:36 oh, wait i'm wrong 23:21:42 "Again, big-endian does not mean "ending big", but "big end first"." -- wp 23:22:06 yeah, it is exactly the opposite of what intuition tells me, which is how i managed to remember it :D 23:23:21 then i'd've remembered correct 23:30:08 -!- ifte has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:33:18 by the way, i checked the number of languages spoken in india, and oerjan was wrong 23:33:38 i was right 23:33:44 i'm on a roll here 23:33:52 Every language that has ever been spoken is spoken in India. 23:34:38 how can i be wrong when i haven't commented on the issue? :/ 23:34:43 well, be that as it may, i have proof it's exactly 1652 23:35:06 oerjan: rarely can you take anything i say seriously. 23:36:15 especially at this time of night, when i'm keeping silent channels alive. 23:36:23 even more rarely than what i say? that's horrible 23:37:21 incidentally that Wikipedia article mentioned Sanskrit as a rare little-endian language 23:39:19 -!- sebbu has quit ("Leaving"). 23:39:35 that 1652 is probably decreasing as we speak. 23:40:07 "kuinka montaa erikielt puhutaan Intiassa ::= 1 652 eri kielt" 23:40:28 i guess you should've played #tietovisa for some 100 hours to get my joke. 23:40:47 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:41:00 (finnish for "how many differentlanguages are spoken in india ::= 1 652 different languages") 23:41:55 anyway, wikipedia says > 1500 languages 23:42:23 i guess 1652 is over 1500, thoughj 23:42:25 *jhjhtg 23:47:32 what does tietovisa mean? 23:47:50 "visa" is kinda like "trivia" 23:48:01 "tieto" is "knowledge" 23:48:25 just "visa" would work fine for the channel name 23:51:00 also, turns out also #visa is a finnish trivia channel 23:51:04 (qnet) 23:51:19 *is also a 2007-08-06: 00:00:16 * ihope ponders market intelligence 00:00:32 Tiny robots buying and selling solutions to problems. 00:00:47 And forming corporations and voting... 00:01:07 And banking and loaning and investing! 00:03:21 heh, sounds like fun 00:03:57 But how smart would each robot have to be? 00:04:02 genetic algorithms with monetary weighting 00:04:12 not that that's what you were talking about, prolly 00:04:21 "Normal" robots would have to be smart enough to find a job involving what they can do. 00:04:34 "Exceptional" robots would have to be smart enough to collectively run everything. 00:05:22 gotta sleep :\ 00:05:30 * oklofok is and exceptional robot 00:05:31 -> 00:05:34 :-) 00:06:03 Robots could think, buy, sell, vote, bank, loan, invest, advance, incorporate! 00:06:25 * oerjan recalls some robots from the A Miracle of Science webcomic 00:06:34 Though investing is really a smarter version of buying, selling, banking, loaning, incorporating and advancing. 00:06:45 And advancing is sort of a part of incorporating. 00:06:50 they were not smart individually, they needed to be networked. 00:06:59 And banking is really more like lending. 00:07:03 The "Marlowes", i think 00:07:18 Think, buy, sell, borrow, lend, vote, incorporate. 00:07:57 Theoretically, if we have enough random bots, the smart ones will become rich and run everything. 00:08:35 The poorest robots can be eliminated and replaced with mixtures of the richest robots. 00:08:36 unless they become _so_ smart that they don't bother :) 00:08:45 Not with selection! 00:08:57 You must think or else you die. >:-) 00:09:14 And by "think", I mean "solve my intelligence problems". 00:09:19 they could become smart enough to rebel against such a system. we have, after all. 00:09:22 Because apparently, I have intelligence problems. 00:09:38 We've rebelled against the laws of physics? 00:10:04 no, against the laws of a society that oppresses them 00:10:17 These aren't laws of society. They're laws of physics. 00:10:29 Unless the bots find a hole in the program. 00:11:55 ah, you are simulating them... 00:12:25 I didn't say that, did I? 00:12:55 Yup, simulating. 00:13:37 unless you think you can really program their AIs to be forever unable to rebel 00:14:09 I could make their hardware that way. 00:14:55 have you read Freefall? 00:15:24 (another webcomic, with lots of crazy robots) 00:15:37 Yup. 00:16:04 Everything except maybe some "alternative" or "extra" strips and this Monday's strip. 00:16:12 ihope: people do rebel (i.e. suicide) 00:16:28 People who commit suicide tend to die. 00:16:37 so your selection won't simply be for the "smartest" robots, but merely for robots that tend to survive. 00:17:12 so perhaps you will never get the best investor robots, because the best ones don't like being forced into investing. 00:17:28 Selection will be for the richest robots. 00:18:40 Right, and what i said is still true. 00:19:02 The smartest robots might not want to become rich like this? 00:19:15 Surely enough selection will make every robot want to be rich. 00:19:37 they might not. They will just waste your cycles complaining about the unfairness of life and writing down theorems on napkins. 00:19:44 And then dying. 00:20:25 Every robot will be generated based on the richest robots. 00:21:00 they might create communism to defeat the system 00:21:15 Hmm... 00:21:36 Find a way to become richer than the "legitimately" rich robots? 00:21:58 no, find i way to force no one to become "legitimately" rich 00:22:00 *a 00:22:55 or, better yet, force ihope to change the selection requirements. 00:23:07 Force people who would normally become rich to not? 00:23:28 yep 00:23:34 for example they could convince you that you'd be more interested in a program that creates and proves interesting theorems 00:23:51 What if I pay them to do that? 00:24:08 for example 00:24:20 then your program will no longer select for good investors; it will select for good mathematicians 00:24:34 zzzzzzzzzzz 00:24:43 I'm after paying these robots to solve intelligence problems. 00:24:54 Suppose we have a bunch of robots, none of them rich. Robot C is almost rich, but none of the other robots want him to become rich. I offer to pay Robot C to solve some problem for me. 00:25:04 How will the other robots prevent Robot C from becoming rich? 00:28:02 By becoming doing Robot C's problem better than C. 00:29:08 ihope: by threatining that if C gets the money and doesn't split it equally with the other robots, they will stop all interaction with C, including financial 00:29:57 so that C will have to decide if your promise is good enough for it 00:30:02 An equivalent solution. . . 00:30:04 to survive without any help from other robots 00:30:14 Err. 00:30:17 Equally good, even. 00:40:54 I'll also suppose that nobody can do the problem better than C can. 00:42:39 yes, but you'll be mistaken, because D can do it better. 00:42:47 but D won't tell you, because D is a communist. 00:43:10 ihope: The obvious solution, then, is to disable C. 00:43:21 Who says the other robots can disable C? 00:43:35 I assume it's possible unless you state otherwise. 00:43:48 If it is otherwise, then you're creating a really, really unnatural environment. 00:44:01 Robots cannot do anything that isn't essentially mutually consented trading. 00:44:24 Well, then, that is *obviously* a really unnatural environment. 00:44:32 lament's solution appears to be the only one feasible. 00:44:43 Unnatural, yes, but it can be simulated. 00:45:32 C is the best robot at a certain problem, and I offer it lots of money to solve it. The other robots threaten to cut it off. J, O and Z say that they'll deal with C if they're paid a lot. 00:45:58 The other robots threaten to cut them off, too, so the rest of the alphabet steps in, the deal is made, and they all get cut off from everybody else. 00:46:10 ihope: if you already know C is the best robot, then you don't need the entire simulation. 00:46:12 But they still become richer than everybody else. 00:46:13 the problem is, you don't. 00:46:36 Hmm... 00:46:54 So I can't quite specifically ask C to do it. 00:47:03 anyway, the robots will survive for now, once you give them the money, but will they be able to survive forever on it? 00:47:16 eventually other robots will get richer and displace these 00:47:21 All they need is money, really. 00:47:24 and these won't get any money from other robots 00:47:30 because other robots won't trade with them anymore 00:47:33 Money and intelligence. 00:47:43 so they'll die 00:47:53 so C will refuse your deal :) 00:47:55 They could get more money from other sources. 00:48:04 Like me. 00:48:16 the only other source is you, and it's less reliable. 00:48:55 eventually they'll fail to solve some problem for you, and die. 00:49:21 (or you will give them money anyway, despite them failing, in which case you're clearly not selecting for any useful characteristics) 00:49:45 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:49:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:50:04 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 01:00:10 That's true. 01:24:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:25:27 Also, I feel like I've sort of stumbled onto treasure, a little: http://freefall.purrsia.com/funstuff/ 01:25:53 Among other things, there are 87 strips that aren't part of what seems to be the "main canon". 01:27:47 The first of those seems to be from 1993. 01:27:53 The main stuff starts in 1998. 01:28:34 http://freefall.purrsia.com/funstuff/eff008.gif 01:32:24 http://freefall.purrsia.com/funstuff/eff022.gif 01:32:27 Early Freefall computer! 01:32:50 Looks rather like a laptop. They now seem to look more like heavy picture frames. 01:33:55 http://freefall.purrsia.com/funstuff/eff028.gif 01:35:10 Some of these I thought were in the main line. 01:39:35 Hey, there's even some from 1991. 01:51:18 And 1990. 01:52:00 And 89. 01:53:40 If they go as far back as 89 CE, do you think I'll be able to find some BCE in there? 01:54:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:04:17 Sure, why not? 02:21:12 -!- cherez has joined. 02:39:37 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 02:50:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:04:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:31:54 -!- Shel2476 has joined. 03:43:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:44:11 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:36:14 -!- Shel2476 has left (?). 04:50:02 ihope: I <3 that comic, BTW. 04:50:11 You bastard; you've made me lose an evening. :p 04:58:04 ihope, what comic? 04:58:15 or pikhq 04:58:47 http://freefall.purrsia.com/funstuff/ 05:34:42 'night everyone 05:34:59 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:33:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:52:25 * pikhq just finished that comic's archives. 07:52:38 ihope: You made me spend 6 hours on that. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:57:31 -!- ehird` has joined. 08:58:17 Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least *two* rules. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric 09:36:42 about the conversation on the robots commiting suicide... you usually make the bot's goals primitive 09:36:53 so... why would they commit suicide 09:52:10 -!- xor has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 10:39:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 12:08:36 THE LAST PRIME NUMBER IS 3.14OINK. 12:49:10 your mother is the last prime number 13:06:37 your mother's mass is aleph-null! 13:07:25 i wish the writer of this tutorial knew finnish 13:07:31 http://home.inreach.com/sl2120/ilaksh/Chapter_1.html 13:08:00 because i don't know spanish pronunciation fully 13:09:01 how hard is it to create a simple conlang anyway? 13:09:20 you haven't made one? 13:09:55 i made something called 'spraints' when i was little 13:10:19 also made sounds for the game worms armageddon in it 13:10:59 you play W:A? 13:11:03 /played 13:11:10 all i remember from it is "tu mengande", which meant something like "you shall regret that" 13:11:20 tu = you, though that was a somplete accident 13:11:24 *complete 13:11:26 yes 13:11:31 i played it like 24/7 13:11:58 two people are still releasing patches for that under authorization for team17, you know 13:12:15 oh 13:12:23 i'm not into gaming nowadays really 13:12:36 i play all of about 3 games 13:12:36 :p 13:12:42 i play elastomania 13:12:50 and a version of it i made myself 13:12:59 that's pretty much it 13:13:11 also, i played this flash game called 'n' 13:13:22 and minesweeper of course 13:16:46 it's scary how much the game is being updated 13:16:54 i mean, unlimited resolution size for one thing 13:17:08 and near-unlimited full-colour maps 13:17:13 and the game's from 1999, damnit 13:18:36 wtf is a "voiced dorso-uvular trill" 13:18:43 :P 13:18:49 the english 'r'? 13:19:30 ah 13:19:49 heh 13:19:57 the german 'r' prolly... why can't people just give examples of them being said... 13:20:00 "voiced dorso-uvular trill, also known as 'r'" 13:20:06 i mean, the writer 13:20:46 i can say about 5 different r's 13:21:07 i speak german, english and finnish fluently, all have different ones... 13:21:12 so... that doesn't help 13:21:38 (err... i pronounce german right, i don't speak it fluently) 13:22:54 (i lack the part of the brain that stores gender for words) 13:23:55 i speak...english 13:23:58 and about 3 sentences of lojban 13:24:09 heh 13:25:23 "ty This consonant cluster may be pronounced either as it is spelled, or as a voiceless unaspirated dorso-palatal plosive"... does that mean as in 'tire'? 13:25:56 ty can be pronounced in a lot of ways 13:25:58 :\ 13:33:47 'unaspirated'... so you don't say the 'h' you usually have after 't', 'p', 'k' and such? 13:34:15 i guess those are the only ones so s/and such/ 13:36:18 god... why can't all languages have a pronunciation system like finnish... 13:36:49 well i guess everything has to suck someway 13:37:54 *some wya 13:37:55 *way 13:41:30 ehird`: how's the lojban pronunciation like? 13:42:30 good 13:42:38 consonants are mostly as in english 13:42:56 t/k/p are aspired? 13:43:01 i find that idiotic 13:43:05 um, whatever that is 13:43:13 you say 'h' after them 13:43:15 http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/book1.html read the intro 13:43:29 the prononuciation stuff isn't long 13:43:32 except for like stick 13:43:35 where you don't 13:46:26 'stick' 13:47:02 stick 13:47:05 stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick stick 13:47:37 err... exactly 13:47:50 stick stick stick 13:47:52 stickstickstickstick 13:48:01 stickystickstickstickstickstickystickstickstickstick 13:48:27 i should make a language where absolute pitch defines meaning 13:49:23 hmm... actually i can make it relative pitch and still make it possible only for singers to learn 13:49:28 stickystickstickstickstickstickystickstickstickstick 13:49:40 sticky... i don 13:49:41 sapgnoirejgojgj 13:50:01 sticky... i say 'h' after the 'k' as well... don't know if that's right 13:50:33 i guess it's correct 13:50:33 sticky stick stick stick sticky stick stick 13:50:49 i'll read lojban once i finish ilaksh, ilaksh looks more tempting 13:50:56 lojban is used by real people 13:51:12 a few are fluent to the degree of being able to think in lojban without mind-level to-english translation 13:51:27 and it's really easy 13:51:44 i wonder how simple a language can get while still being easy to learn and not overtly verbose 13:51:44 ...and ilaksh isn't? 13:51:49 no 13:51:53 nobody knows ilaksh 13:51:55 and i mean that literally 13:52:08 "No person is hitherto known to be able to speak Ithkuil; its creator, for one, does not: “I don't speak Ithkuil, never have, never will, never claimed to.”" 13:52:27 "Ithkuil (Iţkuîl) is an outstandingly complicated human language constructed by the American linguist John Quijada" 13:52:30 outstandingly complicated 13:52:33 might have something to do with it 13:53:31 well... i think that's a matter of opinion 13:53:34 (!) 13:53:54 okay okay, i'll try lojban... 13:54:06 http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/book1.html do this book 13:54:08 it's great 13:54:28 i'll have to learn swedish and german before october though. 13:56:40 lojban has finnish pronunciation, though simplified verrry much 13:57:02 and 'i' and 'u' in the beginning of a diphtong are pronounced as consonants.. stupid 13:57:46 no they're not? 13:57:50 ? 13:58:26 ia like German Ja 13:58:29 "" 13:58:34 it's 'j' 13:58:36 i mean 'y' 13:58:46 it's not the vocal 'i'. 13:59:07 ah 13:59:17 i guess you wouldn't see the difference if you don't actually have the difference in your language 13:59:20 ia makes sense as german-ja, no? 13:59:24 sure 13:59:26 it's the natural combination of the sounds of i and a 13:59:31 but you could just have the finnish system 13:59:36 and just make it 'ja' 13:59:38 after all, lojban is meant to be logical - you can easily guess parts 13:59:54 oklofok: j is not pronounced as in ja in lojban 13:59:57 so you can't do that 14:00:12 'ia' can be said 'ia', you don't have to use 'j' 14:00:16 i mean 14:00:22 you don't have to consonantify the 'i' 14:00:34 oh, i guess i'll read it through before i start saying it sucks 14:00:50 that might be fair, since the creator is most likely a better linguist than me :P 14:01:33 oh 14:01:40 like german Ja is just an example 14:01:52 err yes 14:01:54 e is like in get 14:01:58 english get 14:02:01 ...yes 14:02:03 a is like in english father 14:02:10 i is like in machine 14:02:12 yeah, vocals are the same as in finnish 14:02:15 ia -> ja 14:02:31 if a is fAther and i machIne, then the most comfortable way to pronounce ia is like the german Ja 14:02:31 except for 'u' & 'i' -> consonant 14:02:38 ah 14:02:38 that does not mean it is defined as german "Ja" 14:02:42 it just means it's an example :) 14:03:11 so it's prolly actually 'ia', but people most likely can't say it 14:03:20 yes 14:03:22 i guess i should've thought of that 14:03:32 except convention means that basically /everybody/ says it like ja 14:03:50 so for the sake of a beginner's introduction, and most other purposes, it's defacto defined as that 14:03:58 so; yeah 14:04:08 if you're a programmer you'll like lojban 14:04:14 selbri are analogous to functions with arguments 14:07:36 lojban isn't short :< 14:08:36 if no one can speak ilaksh/ithkuil even if they can predecide what they are going to say, how can there be a pronunciation example on wikipedia? 14:08:41 that oumpe thing 14:08:52 that sounded goddamn sexy 14:09:05 oklofok: because many people will have collaborated 14:09:09 to produce the right sound 14:09:12 and lojban is short! 14:09:13 it's simple! 14:09:23 the lfb book just elaborates for the sake of newbies 14:09:29 anyone can create those sounds with a bit of training 14:09:37 sure 14:09:47 but people will have had to work out how to pronounce everything first 14:09:52 which would have taken an hour, or something 14:09:55 also, who cares about pronunciation, i never talk to anyone 14:10:02 well i do, but not that much 14:10:12 well nobody uses ithkuil 14:10:18 even outside of pronounciation 14:10:23 however lojban is quite widely know 14:10:23 n 14:10:40 how much does lojban shorten sentences? 14:11:36 lojban sentences are short 14:11:47 exemplify! 14:11:49 here, i'll fetch an example of lojban text 14:11:52 yay 14:12:22 http://home.nvg.org/~arj/dantimanti/ some random person's blog in lojban! :p 14:12:28 .i is the start of a sentence 14:12:49 http://laxmahispajispaji.blogspot.com/ some other blog linked on the lojban site! 14:13:03 http://perpetuum-immobile.de/komo.png a comic in lojban! 14:13:17 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1710885982433758647 a random animated short ... thing in lojban! 14:13:19 is that enough? :p 14:13:45 lojban is longer than english 14:13:54 ! 14:14:19 tell that to #lojban 14:14:36 no, really - do :) 14:14:45 oh 14:14:47 i shall 14:25:43 everything is longer than english 14:40:33 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 14:40:46 SimonRC: huh? 14:41:23 i doubt that 14:42:33 IME it is 14:43:13 ithkuil beat it in the one example i've seen 14:43:14 ! 14:46:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:46:59 i just know finnish, swedish, german and english, and english wins among those 14:47:17 so that's my experience too, gotta admit 15:19:16 I know a chunk of Spanish. 15:20:04 -!- wellons has joined. 15:24:30 i know random bits of spanish, but i don't know how it's pronounced correctly in every case 15:26:15 I think I pretty much know Spanish pronunciation. 15:26:51 I don't know just how "x" works, though, and apparently there are things like n being pronounced as m sometimes. 15:27:09 I do know gue, gui, que, qui. 15:27:20 it's hard learning it completely if your teacher isn't native 15:27:46 hmm... i don't remember how 'g' works in that case 15:27:59 how does it? 15:28:12 G is pronounced the same in ga, gue, gui, go, gu. 15:28:41 The only difference between the pronunciations is the vowel following. 15:28:59 i just remember it's not pronounced at all in 'agua' 15:29:05 It's not? 15:29:08 nope 15:29:12 that'd be a'ua 15:29:17 when pronounced 15:30:02 i do not know why, the teacher just said it's so... only programmers should teach languages, dammit 15:30:24 Hmm. 15:30:37 I thought it was at least pronounced a little. 15:30:47 hmm 15:30:54 it's pronounced a little, yes. 15:40:18 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:40:38 howdy, everyone 15:40:54 Ello. 15:41:43 hi, ihope 16:03:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:03:16 RodgerTheGreat: howdy 16:03:35 hi, wellons 16:42:54 -!- jix_ has joined. 16:49:22 I want quantum computers to be able to run "normal" programs efficiently. 16:49:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:50:03 Are they good at things with quantifiers? 16:50:49 (E.g. "there does not exist X such that 1 < X < Y and Z mod X = 0") 16:53:29 (Factoring an integer of length n is solving that problem O(n) times, I believe.) 17:03:00 quantum computers are good at integer factorization, iirc 17:03:12 RodgerTheGreat: 17:03:13 RodgerTheGreat: hi 17:03:19 hello 17:16:32 Yay! 17:16:44 I just did lucid dreaming. 17:17:00 I will need practice to improve. 17:18:13 Yay! 17:18:48 Notably, I was kinda-paralysed. 17:25:24 lucid dreaming is fun 17:25:32 i really need to start practicing and stuff 17:25:39 but occasionally i randomly get lucid 17:25:57 me too 17:26:02 i have full movement and can fly and pick up cars and all that, but i can't control the enviroment 17:26:09 i can't create pink elephants 17:26:12 or give a house legs 17:26:31 i often find it hard to move around even when lucid dreaming 17:26:32 The environment is different from the cars? 17:26:40 ihope: i can touch the cars; and pick them up 17:26:47 that's a movement i'm familiar with 17:26:54 but i don't know any kind of movement to give houses legs 17:27:04 Remove a random person's legs and put them on the house! 17:27:09 ihope: one can usually just do stuff that could happen in real lige 17:27:11 *life 17:27:11 how do i remove a random person's legs? 17:27:17 oklofok: not true 17:27:17 By pulling! 17:27:26 heh 17:27:27 ihope: anyway, i'd have to find a person first 17:27:28 you see? 17:27:37 ehird`: how come? 17:27:41 ah fly 17:27:46 okay, i can do that too, often 17:27:52 oklofok: you can do literally anything, with a little bit of practice 17:28:00 it's just your mind 17:28:04 i know 17:28:07 Remove a finger from yourself and plant it in the ground! 17:28:15 Once a person grows, take their finger and legs. 17:28:19 heh 17:28:29 i meant usually when people lucid dream, they can just do what they could in real life, except they might be a bit superhuman 17:28:30 maybe i'd ring up International Stork Postage 17:28:34 "hi, can i have a baby please" 17:28:36 Yeah! 17:28:41 Oddly, a few days ago I was dreaming and I was changin stuff by concentrating (like that kid out of the Twilight Zone), but I didn't realise I was dreaming. 17:29:05 i once had a dream which consisted of me performing reality checks 17:29:10 heh 17:29:11 and that was actually the topic of the dream 17:29:14 i didn't decide to RC or anything 17:29:18 but that's what the dream was about 17:29:21 "RC"? 17:29:26 reality check 17:29:37 after i'd done about 5, i thought "wait a minute.. they all failed" and promptly became lucid 17:29:42 did they tell you you were dreaming? 17:29:50 yes, but i didn't become lucid until after it all 17:29:51 ah, cool 17:30:02 thanks, dream :p 17:30:05 We need better terminology than "say you were dreaming" and "say you were not necessarily dreaming". 17:30:19 How about "test reality" and "test dream"? 17:30:22 simple: you can't read in dreams 17:30:24 My trick is a looping30-minute counter all the time I am awake. 17:30:34 read some text, look away, look back 17:30:37 it'll have changed 17:30:37 "I did 500 RCs in my dream last night, but they all tested reality." 17:30:43 that doesn't happen 17:30:46 at least one always works 17:30:51 for example, holding your nose and breathing 17:30:58 and closing one eye and looking for your nose 17:31:05 um, why holding your nose? 17:31:16 So that if it's real life, you can't breathe. 17:31:18 because in dreams you can breathe while holding your nose. 17:31:25 ehird`: unless you are actually seeing the real world in your dream 17:31:33 no 17:31:35 you can do it 17:31:40 why not just seal off your nose, I mean? 17:31:41 because when you do that action of holding the nose 17:31:42 it doesn't happen in real life 17:31:48 thus. 17:31:58 also, you can't see your nose out the corner of your eye with one eye shut in a dream 17:32:07 weird 17:32:10 Usually, for me, it's the hands. 17:32:14 Wrong number of fingers. 17:32:16 the hands never work for me 17:32:17 heh 17:32:29 clocks+text 17:32:31 failproof 17:32:32 anyway 17:32:35 * ehird` goes until later 17:32:40 waitamo, can people here actually seal off their nose and continue breathing through their mouth? 17:32:53 Through the mouth, yes. 17:33:10 I mean, you have a muscle that just blocks off your nose? 17:33:16 But I think you're supposed to (temporarily, of course) put yourself in a position where it's impossible to breathe. 17:33:22 SimonRC? 17:33:28 (SimonRC) waitamo, can people here actually seal off their nose and continue breathing through their mouth? 17:33:32 ihope: yes 17:33:35 oklofok: hm? 17:33:35 err... you can't? 17:33:42 I can 17:33:43 Oh, that? I can certainly breathe through my mouth without pinching my nose or anything. 17:33:50 I thought other people couldn't 17:33:55 oh :P 17:34:02 i'm fairly sure everyone can 17:34:05 how about clearing your ears without yawning? 17:34:13 they go click 17:34:30 or then they don't speak english 17:34:39 i can do taht 17:34:40 I can click them without any breathing. 17:34:40 *that 17:34:40 huh? 17:34:45 in fact i do that quite a lot 17:35:00 your ears don't speak english? 17:35:01 so much my ears hurt in the movies nowadays 17:35:03 Seems rather a useless thing, though. 17:35:05 err 17:35:49 actually i don't know if english would require that skill, but i still think everyone can do that 17:36:18 If English would require what skill? 17:36:36 (SimonRC) waitamo, can people here actually seal off their nose and continue breathing through their mouth? 17:37:05 oh, yeah, point 17:37:06 Hmm... 17:37:10 * ihope nods 17:37:23 what is a real skill, is breathing through your ears. 17:37:27 theoretically possible 17:38:06 anyway, i often fall asleep reading, the pages just start having a random content, but pages will stay the same even if i close my eyes for a moment 17:38:29 (usually when i fall asleep reading a book, i just have a dream where i'm reading it) 17:38:45 that's not good if you're reading like a dictionary 17:38:57 this one time i'd actually memorized english words that did not exist 17:39:02 not many, but a few 17:39:03 :-) 17:39:07 Do you remember any? 17:39:51 that was about 3 years ago... but i think 'cam' had a third meaning that was something like 'a green human' 17:40:02 Heh. 17:40:08 i'm fairly sure it had a third meaning, that made no sense 17:40:12 but i'm not sure if that was it 17:40:34 i always remember crystal clear, but often very very wrong. 17:43:04 Noun: rote. 1. A line in the dirt. 17:43:24 " theoretically possible" <--- no, your eardrum seperates your inner and outer ears 17:44:49 Noun: jerry. 1. A motor vehicle incapable of going very fast. 17:45:06 2. A very slow person. 17:45:14 (slang) 17:46:04 ?? 17:47:24 Making up words. 17:48:14 SimonRC: yes, but you can pass air through it. 17:48:18 not fast 17:48:20 but you can 17:48:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:48:40 my friend demonstrated this to me once by blowing smoke through it 17:49:37 Have you ever tried to blow your nose when it was really stuffed up and felt the air coming out of your ear? Same idea. 17:49:38 also, you can just equalize your ear pressure... that is basically just passing air through it 17:49:50 and what GregorR said 17:50:28 I've gotten into the habit of covering my ears while I blow my nose :P 17:51:05 GregorR: do you have three hands? 17:51:30 If not, I sentence you to coming up with a word longer than "broughammed". 17:51:33 ihope: It's a bit of a stunt :) 17:52:00 Such as antidisestablishmentarianism or pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis? 17:52:06 Yup! 17:52:11 oklofok: I equalise my ear pressure by opening the tube that passes t connects my inner ear to my nose, I think. 17:52:49 actually, yeah, not the same thing 17:53:07 anyway, you *can* pass smoke through it, i've seen tons of ppl do that. 17:53:25 I thought the eardrum was, like, impermiable 17:53:34 in fact, i once tried it myself, though that just gave me a massive hearache :P 17:53:45 (no, i don't smoke, i'm a good boy) 17:54:33 you may need to have it been popped... that's sometimes done when it's been infected or something 17:54:42 methinks 17:55:02 akes sense 17:55:08 the friend who showed that to me actually has had his eardrums popped... 17:55:26 how? 17:55:42 err... he was little and had 5 ear infections 17:55:47 oh 17:55:48 iirc 17:56:00 "IIS gaining on Apache" 17:56:03 so it went poppidy poppidy at the hospital 17:56:10 * pikhq waits for the next IIS hole to fix that 17:56:49 * SimonRC imagines the situation with the other Apache""s. 17:57:12 bloody lag 18:48:17 back 18:48:58 sack 18:49:37 for the longest time i couldn't spell missisippi 18:49:40 i think i did that right 18:52:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 18:53:34 mississippi 18:59:57 Mrs. Sippy 19:40:32 "Necessary" 19:40:47 Now I remember that the 'c's and 's's form "CSS" :-) 19:44:56 i don't understand how anyone would not remember stuff like that automatically 19:45:15 (not that i don't make mistakes, i just don't understand my own suckiness then.) 19:45:34 'nessicary' 20:03:16 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:03:32 -!- jix__ has joined. 20:05:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:30:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:46:13 RodgerTheGreat: When you get the time, can you make that guide about game programming for experienced programmers? 20:46:32 sure 20:46:47 I'm running short on time, so I won't really be able to reply, but thanks. 20:46:50 Actually, I have a bit of free time- I'll do some work on it 20:46:55 cya, then 20:47:01 I'm tired of game guides that assume I've never programmed, so :) 20:47:04 G'luck! 20:51:21 "A game is just a database with a pretty front-end." :-) 20:56:19 No, it's a database with a pretty front-end that lacks arbitrary features. 21:07:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:07:35 -!- oklofok has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:07:35 -!- Sukoshi` has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:07:35 -!- cmeme has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:07:36 -!- meatmanek has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:40 -!- helios24 has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:40 -!- oerjan has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:40 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:40 -!- tokigun has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- oklopol has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- sp3tt has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- mtve has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- jix__ has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- Haikz has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- wellons has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- Blejdfist has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- SimonRC has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- sebbu has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- sekhmet has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- cherez has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- ihope has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- lament has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- trepliev has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:08:41 -!- GregorR has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:10:45 -!- clog has joined. 21:10:45 -!- clog has joined. 21:11:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:28:42 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:37:04 -!- oklofok has joined. 21:56:09 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:25:36 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:45:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:55:07 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 22:57:53 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:21:41 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:48:53 * SimonRC self-enbedinates. 23:52:49 ITYM autoembeds 23:55:09 echo '' > index.html 23:59:28 Is embed like image except... different? 23:59:35 And maybe more general? 23:59:59 Proprietary, says Wikipedia... 2007-08-07: 00:00:24 (Should I call it Encyclopedia to annoy people like calling it Wiki annoys me? :-P) 00:07:30 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:26:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 02:10:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:11:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:45:30 i have never seen anyone refer to the wikipedia as "wiki" 03:47:17 I've referred to it as *a* wiki, though. . . 03:47:28 (which, of course, it is) 03:47:48 foo 03:49:16 Whenever somebody generically calls it "wiki" I stab them. 03:49:20 Two problems solved. 03:52:56 stab-over-ip 03:55:40 Bah. Violence over IP. 03:55:45 We'll call it VoIP. 04:06:57 -!- Figs has joined. 04:07:07 `ello 04:10:03 holy crap, have you guys seen this? 04:10:03 http://www.luckywhitegirl.com/2005/11/medium_rare_ele.html 04:10:06 * bsmntbombdood eats a fig 04:10:27 seriously, keeping the computer in the over *tsk tsk* 04:12:57 waaait 04:13:00 2005 04:13:01 ... 04:13:01 OLD 04:13:05 rofl 04:16:06 *ding fries are done...* 04:17:20 ... 04:18:35 Remarkably stupid. 04:18:39 Poor computer. 04:18:50 http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/ 04:18:54 umm 04:18:56 yeah... 04:19:01 * pikhq would never trust her with anything more complex than an abacus ever again 04:20:29 "Can't find tomshardware.com" 04:20:35 Hmm. That was odd. 04:20:54 try again 04:20:56 works for me 04:21:26 yes, let's stick our PC into 8 gallons of cooking oil! 04:22:55 That's not exactly a new cooling system. . . 04:23:08 it still looks like wtf 04:23:09 I believe some of the Crays were cooled in oil. 04:23:23 (highly filtered motor oil, but still) 04:23:30 :P 04:23:51 it just seems counter intuitive to me to dip your expensive hardware in cooking oil 04:23:59 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 04:24:01 it makes sense on one level but on the other, "WTF" 04:24:04 :P 04:24:07 hi GregorR-L 04:24:25 I don't think the *vegetable* oil would be a good idea; it could easily go rancid, after all. 04:24:36 That reminds me of that deep fat fryer that doubled as a fish tank 04:24:49 Honestly. . . Do you *want* a rancid computer? :p 04:24:58 Might keep theives from taking it 04:25:04 "Eww, this computer is gross" 04:25:13 "Let's take the TV instead, Ned" 04:25:19 "k..." 04:25:28 "You mean the one that's inside that fish tank?" 04:25:50 (Would you like an apple pie with that? *ding fries are done*) 04:26:36 do you think this would void your warrenty if something broke? 04:26:56 BTW, Toms Hardware's website sucks balls. 04:27:01 "Yes sir, I dipped my PC in cooking oil and your graphics card stopped working." 04:27:18 That's a cruel thing to say about balls. 04:27:44 You're right; balls are too good for Toms Hardware. 04:28:13 now we need to find a computer that runs better hot 04:28:22 so it can double as a deep-fat fryer 04:29:00 not only can you play your video games, but you can make french fries at the same time! 04:29:02 :S 04:29:11 just keep the fish tank under it :P 04:29:23 mmm, that'd be weird 04:29:33 fish tank oil/water computer 04:30:40 great way to freak out your roomies ;p 04:30:54 "WTF IS THAT THING?!" 04:30:58 "It's my computer/fish tank" 04:36:44 Obviously. Tom's Hardware is for gamers. 04:36:53 Them and their ``rigs''. 04:36:57 Sukoshi`: It's for people that like an article on 11 pages. 04:37:14 My preferred 'rig' involves more computing power than I could ever possibly need. . . 04:37:23 And keeping it until I actually *do* need more. 04:37:46 i hate that split-the-article-up-into-paragraphs-on-seppereate-pages shit 04:37:49 That's not the Gamer Way though. 04:37:58 True. 04:38:03 It's the sane way. 04:38:38 (the sane way also ends up using a 3-5 year old computer, and thinking "What, you guys are having lower performance on better boxes?") 04:38:44 Mmm. . . Gentoo. . . 04:39:11 :P 04:39:36 Too easy to poke fun at Vista. 04:39:52 ugh. @_@ 04:40:06 reading about quantum computers make my head hurt :P 04:40:17 http://www.ams.org/featurecolumn/archive/quantum-one.html 04:41:25 I need to do more math :P 04:41:39 two months and I've already forgotten so much 04:41:48 damn ye, summer! 04:44:29 I never understood the gamer philosophy at all. 04:44:36 But then *shrug* most programmers probably don't. 04:44:57 "Gamer Philosophy"? 04:45:16 i never played video games 04:45:30 I usually don't 04:45:36 but I've been playing a lot lately 04:45:43 all free ones 04:45:59 Cave Story, La-Mulana, A Game with a Kitty, etc 04:46:11 Within a Deep Forest, Knytt... 04:46:45 My idea of good games involves an emulator. . . 04:46:59 :) 04:47:20 Seiken Densetsu 3 Secret of Mana! 04:47:35 CronoTrigger? :P 04:48:10 *starts humming Frog's Theme* 04:49:30 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070806/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_germany_pencil 04:49:32 WTF! 04:49:45 seriously, what the bloody fuck?! 04:50:05 51 years with... geez 04:50:19 55* 04:50:26 how did I get 51? :S 04:50:28 bloody fucking, that's kinky 04:50:45 ... 04:53:40 I have a really crazy idea 04:53:43 using C++ 04:53:47 it sucks 04:53:47 I play video games. 04:53:52 for a game engine 04:54:09 But mostly when my creative faculties don't work. 04:54:19 It'd need my parser library... and I'd have to write two more libraries at least 04:54:56 a file handler lib using the parser library, and a "database" lib using the other two 04:55:21 Erm, so what's the game idea? 04:55:30 *points out the word _engine_* 04:55:54 Yacc, STL, and a SQL. 04:56:02 ... How is that any different from the hundreds of other C++ game engines out there? :P 04:56:39 pikhq, more like Yacc, XML/DTD++, SQL inline 04:57:06 the trick isn't so much that it'd be a game engine, in fact, it wouldn't be 04:57:07 but 04:57:09 I fail to see how XML handles *files*. 04:57:27 that's where the ++ comes in 04:57:33 So, it's a game engine that's not a game engine? 04:57:36 using a meta-language to describe the contents of files 04:57:58 Exactly. 04:58:15 Yet another Descriptive Idea from Figs. 04:58:24 * Figs bows 04:58:24 Hm. Is there any portal on the web where people propose OSS projects? 04:58:33 no idea 04:58:37 sourceforger? 04:58:39 probably :P 04:58:48 People propose stuff on SF? 04:59:04 Sukoshi` -- build one on google 04:59:11 you have everything you need to do it 04:59:30 I should. 04:59:31 Google.Code, Google.Groups, Google.Mail, Goole.Page(? can't remember the real name... is that it?) 04:59:38 I've never done web programming, but I should. 04:59:55 In fact, it would be a very convenient starting project. 05:00:03 Any takers? I'll probably be writing it in Python. 05:00:14 nooo not python 05:00:15 scheme 05:00:24 I'd be interested if I didn't have a couple dozen projects already 05:00:28 and if I knew python :P 05:00:44 I have yet to learn Python meself, but I hear that the core is very minimal. 05:00:52 seriously though, I like this idea because it's a way to kill two birds with one stone 05:00:56 Minimal enough that one can learn the language as one codes. 05:01:04 it gives me a good reason to finish my insane parser library 05:01:11 Any other takers? 05:01:19 scheme! 05:01:22 No, thanks. 05:01:28 But not because of the Python bit. . . 05:01:28 nope. 05:01:43 * pikhq went from "know nothing" to "able to do some hacking in it" in about 5 minutes 05:01:43 Because it's web programming? 05:01:51 you could be the first to figure out how to write a site in BrainFuck 05:01:53 Well, that's one thing. 05:02:02 or has it been done? 05:02:06 Dunno what's wrong with web programming. 05:02:07 It's obvious what to do. 05:02:21 So? 05:02:25 Just make a Brainfuck HTTPD which runs from inetd. 05:02:44 Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it, Do it...! 05:02:46 :P 05:02:49 * Figs chants 05:04:02 wow, I wonder what it'd look like to look at the server-side source for a BF webpage... 05:06:51 Sukoshi`: what kind of web programming though, simple cgi or using some advanced framework? 05:07:09 because the former is a gigantic pain in the butt, and the latter involves learning way more than just the "core" 05:07:42 advanced frameworks wins 05:07:47 cgi is nice and simple 05:07:54 errr, s/wins/loses/ 05:08:11 I wanna stick to simple CGI, unless you want to use a framework. 05:08:19 Because frameworks, IMO, are more annoying. 05:08:55 well, be prepared then, cgi is pretty awful 05:09:06 Yeah, I know. 05:09:18 But learning a framework is learning something that's simple-paradigm. 05:10:02 I mean, this project isn't *that* complicated. We'll just be managing project proposals, proposal creators, proposal accepters, and maybe stuff like dates and categories. 05:10:17 Most of it will bepend on a DB and basic HTML generation. 05:10:19 python is a very pleasant language though 05:31:57 It's like the spa retreat of programming. 05:32:03 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rule+36 05:32:12 ... 05:32:16 perfect! 05:33:06 btw 05:33:10 wtf is "flrrd"? 05:36:13 O_o 05:36:15 right 05:36:34 go replace every instance of the word "Fuck" in a forum post with "QUACK" 05:36:39 it makes for unusual reading 05:36:47 Go QUACK yourself. 05:36:52 for example 05:37:00 (BrainQUACK anyone? :S) 05:38:07 replacing words with other words commonly reads to unusual readings. 05:38:41 I read an entire story where the F word had been censored to say "Gently caress" 05:38:52 it took me a while to realize it wasn't just the author being quirky 05:39:04 (forum censoring software... joy :P) 05:39:08 how do you say motherfucker then? 05:39:16 mothergently caresser? 05:39:25 mothergently caress? 05:47:36 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 05:49:38 Figs: reminds me of the SomethingAwful forums 05:50:19 "Holy loving poo-poo. Gently caress me." -> "Holy fucking shit- fuck me." 05:50:49 I think it was the SomethingAwful forums, but I don't know 05:50:57 Might have been elsewhere 05:50:57 lament: different forms of "fuck" generally map to different words 05:51:15 I've spent a fair amount of time slowly learning to decode their replacements 05:51:31 it was the Streetsweeper's Tale 05:51:52 don't ask me how many times I've fucked that one up and said SweetStreeper's Tale 05:52:09 I can't begin to guess. 05:52:19 Figs: yeah, that was from SA 05:52:46 ah 05:52:49 I'm not a forum member, but I like reading threads there when I'm bored 05:52:50 I don't usually go there 05:52:53 so I don't remember 05:52:53 RodgerTheGreat: but "fuck" itself could be a noun or a verb 05:53:01 or an interjection 05:53:08 lament: it's not perfect 05:53:15 Gently Caress, batman! 05:53:19 What is that! 05:53:21 :P 05:53:29 did they have a replacement for shit? 05:53:32 the places the replacement doesn't fit in well are how you can start to crack the code 05:53:34 I can't remember 05:53:38 poo-poo apparently. 05:53:42 oh 05:53:44 :P 05:53:46 Figs: I'm not sure if poo-poo is crap or shit 05:53:52 almost impossible to tell 05:54:02 sockpuppet a guide? 05:54:24 C-rap = crap, F-uck = fuck, S-hit = shit ... etc 05:54:47 if you want to spend $10 on a sockpuppet, be my guest 05:54:51 my way is more fun 05:54:54 :P 05:55:58 lament: Are you up to it? 05:56:21 I hope Python is nice. I've Rubied, and it just feels like ... wannabe Smalltalk. 05:56:28 oh 05:56:36 then you might not enjoy python as much :) 05:56:42 Hm? How come? 05:56:53 it's a lot less of a wannabe smalltalk, but it's not very different from ruby 05:56:57 it doesn't have blocks, though. 05:57:08 I could whip up a PHP-based BF interpreter for BF CGI. I think that'd be easier than python. 05:57:21 instead all functions are first-class and you can pass them freely; there's no extra sugar 05:57:22 Well, Ruby uses a lot of Smalltalk-ish features, especially blocks, that irk me in their obvious lack of power. 05:57:47 also, python has list comprehensions <3 05:58:21 I previewed Perl over vacation, and it seemed quite nice, albeit the OOP seemed downright cryptic, and its overreliance on $, %, and @ is bleh. 05:58:46 I totally grok the concept of using references in data structures too, because it's a C thing. 05:59:47 The one major irk I had with my Python previewing was the forced indentation ... I've encountered enough Haskell situations where I fume because the indentation has caused me trouble where I've come to prefer brace syntax. 06:01:18 Hopefully Emacs's python-mode is more mature than haskell-mode :P 06:02:27 One last question as I continue my SAT studying: Is there a reason people constantly use SQL instead of writing, say, a database in Python, or C/++/Java if Python is too slow? 06:02:55 *cough* 06:03:00 SQL is very efficient, actually, and it scales 06:03:08 I was just talking about writing a database in C++ 06:03:10 :P 06:03:11 scalability is a high motivator here 06:03:49 Don't expect mine to scale *too much*... it's not a goat, fish, or scientist. 06:06:19 blocks are just lambda aren't they? 06:06:48 Sukoshi`: explicit references are probably the biggest turn-off from perl for me 06:07:01 Sukoshi`: emacs handles python's indentation just fine, because it's a lot simpler than haskell's 06:07:02 Sukoshi`: python's indentation is somehow saner than haskell's 06:07:23 Sukoshi`: there's no that "beginning of next lexeme" junk, you just continue on the next line and tabulate 06:07:38 if blah: 06:07:40 stuff() 06:08:03 i suppose you could do that in haskell, too, but somehow everybody doesn't. 06:08:47 Heh. True. 06:08:55 hmm... I wonder 06:09:09 Well, explicit references are pretty useful for efficiency, methinks. 06:09:16 Sukoshi`: i don't see how 06:09:21 Although I would prefer an explicit value language rather. 06:09:22 how would a language without an "if" keyword be? 06:09:26 like, you use ? instead 06:09:29 Sukoshi`: either you access the reference, in which case you have to access it anyway. 06:09:37 Sukoshi`: or you don't access it, in which case you don't access it. 06:09:39 foo? {bar} else {blah} 06:09:42 but like 06:09:43 doesn't matter if it's explicit or not 06:09:45 foo? 06:09:48 bar. 06:09:48 else 06:09:50 blah. 06:10:03 *put in spaces where appropriate 06:10:12 Well, if you have loops where you access something hundreds or thousands of times, you may want to have the value is a variable waiting, rather than in a reference. 06:10:31 s/is/as/ 06:11:05 That's why I'd prefer explicit value, that way in the cases where efficiency is needed, the value is explicitly stored, elsewise the reference is stored and looked up. 06:13:31 that'd be interesting, but somehow, I think I've gotten myself too engrained with the C++ way of think that I'd fuck it up :P 06:13:50 or at least _gently caress_ it up :P 06:13:52 stay flexible 06:14:10 'night, guys 06:14:10 * Figs starts doing pinky push-ups... 06:14:21 Sukoshi`: ah, but that's only possible for a limited set of primitive types for which you can have something OTHER than a reference. 06:14:25 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:14:32 Sukoshi`: and python already does that for them. 06:15:28 Sukoshi`: and a difference of one C-level pointer resolution is really not something you should worry about in a very high-level garbage-collected language. 06:18:01 That I agree with. 06:18:57 and the gain in elegance is enormous 06:19:10 instead of all those sigils, you just have one type of object 06:19:26 (like smalltalk and ruby) 06:19:58 sigil? 06:20:14 oh, nevermind 06:21:39 twigils O.o 06:22:24 hmm 06:22:39 oh 06:22:44 hmm 06:22:52 something about macros just clicked in my head 06:23:27 I just realized how neat it'd be if I could write something to make 06:24:02 stringify { foo " is a " blahtype } 06:24:04 work 06:24:09 -!- mvanier has joined. 06:24:17 instead of having to do 06:24:22 -!- mvanier has left (?). 06:24:32 foo << " is a " << blahtype 06:26:26 huh 06:26:38 Sigil (Computer Programming) from wikipedia claims 06:26:40 "In Fortran, all variables starting with the letters I, J, K, L, M and N are integers although Fortran refers to this as "implicit typing". (This is the source of the long tradition of using "i", "j", "k" etc as the loop indexes of "for loops" in many programming languagesfew of which have implicit typing)." 06:26:41 is that true? 06:27:54 could be 06:28:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:29:32 O_o 06:29:33 http://image.bayimg.com/cafmnaabf.jpg 06:40:40 wow, I just realized how bad I am at shading 06:40:42 I SUCK. 06:40:43 period. 06:40:46 :'( 07:10:57 Well, I always thought the programming `i' originates from math's summation notation? 07:12:40 That would be *why* Fortran had i through n as integers. 07:13:04 ;D 07:38:17 wow 07:38:19 I just like 07:38:23 totally wasted the evening again! 07:38:25 fuck >.< 07:39:47 very very very off topic, but wtf: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/06/worst-excuse-ever/ 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:32:31 -!- Feuermonster has joined. 10:12:02 !++++++++++[>++++++<-]>+++++. 10:22:21 ?+++--- 10:22:41 ... 10:23:34 +--[+..+]--+ brainhug 10:34:43 !bf +--[+..+]--+ 10:35:31 Exists a source of a bf compiler? 10:35:49 sources are exist many 10:36:04 though interpreters most are 10:38:02 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:38:40 but one yourself can you make, easy is it like a pie 10:41:12 -!- ololobot has joined. 10:45:22 I thought, I could translate it to C++ and compile it (extern) with a very small C++ Compiler. 10:45:37 But til now, i did not find a small c++ compiler. 10:46:48 the small ones are the best 10:47:05 In the best way, it should be one .exe. 10:47:38 (And can be started with command lines.) 10:47:42 Like gcc foo.c 10:48:40 But gcc is not very comfortable for my use. 10:57:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("oyasume nasai"). 11:15:42 -!- jix_ has joined. 11:18:03 -!- wellons has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:28:41 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:28:52 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 14:29:12 howdy, everyone 14:30:18 howdy, RodgerTheGreat 14:30:29 hello, ehird` 14:31:00 hello, RodgerTheGreat 14:31:08 ... 14:56:12 hi 14:56:38 hey, SimonRC 15:16:01 hey, RodgerTheGreat 15:16:29 ehird`: have you had a CAT scan recently? 15:16:43 i have had a `cat /dev/urandom` scan recently 15:24:56 The hard part to doing a cat scan is getting the cat to lie still on the scanner and not scratch the glass 15:26:31 SimonRC: this is why staple-guns were invented 15:27:16 that would damage the scanner 15:27:28 http://www.choosemyhat.com/ ... DO IT! IT'S COOOOL! 15:27:51 heh 15:28:32 I'm liking that gray fedora 15:29:49 The hard part to doing a cat scan is getting the cat to lie still on the scanner and not scratch the glass <-- i have an overwhelming urge to put this on bash 15:30:14 well, and the two following messages 15:31:21 the mods at bash suck. They've turned down all of the greatest quotes my friends and I have submitted 15:31:29 this is true 15:31:32 ummm 15:31:38 repeat that conversation with "gay nigga" in 15:31:40 that should do it 15:32:06 ehird`: have you had a CAT scan recently, gay nigga? 15:32:13 that isn't the quote 15:32:16 The hard part to doing a cat scan is getting the cat to lie still on the scanner and not scratch the glass 15:32:17 SimonRC: this is why staple-guns were invented 15:32:17 that would damage the scanner 15:32:20 that's it 15:32:32 ehird`: that sentence is how it *started* 15:32:37 okay fine 15:32:38 GregorR: How did Do not Put the Baby start? 15:32:50 this should be an interesting story 15:33:55 lmao- do not put the baby in the condom is priceless 15:33:55 * SimonRC imagines GregorR tuning up a Ukelele 15:34:11 "Richard, I told you to use that 10 months ago!" 15:34:13 we need a song 15:34:17 heh 15:34:23 that would be fantastic 15:35:06 Do not put the baby in the fantastic song 15:35:27 ehird`: make it, make it now 15:35:40 I did this one: http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Pixel 15:36:21 i wrote lyrics, give me much moneys http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186497006.html 15:37:02 actually i should just use the list of ones already on the site 15:37:30 hm 15:37:51 I think we could continue to polish it a bit 15:42:15 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186497363.html okay! 15:42:15 :p 15:42:35 that should last about 6-7 minutes.. 15:42:35 that's somewhat better 15:43:11 now, see if you can't rephrase it into something resembling regular meter or rhyme. 15:43:30 i could end every sentence with "voodoo" 15:43:38 hm 15:43:48 Do not put the baby in the algebraic expression voodoo 15:43:54 Do not put the baby in the invisible box voodoo 15:44:02 Do not put the baby in the toilet voodoo 15:44:30 if I were writing this, I'd make some kind of introductory segment that roughly explains what the song is about 15:46:46 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186497634.html done! :p 15:47:13 hm 15:47:51 GregorR: I think ehird` could benefit from some lyrical advice 15:47:59 or a lobotomy 15:48:39 either way, really 15:59:16 -!- test__ has joined. 16:00:39 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:00:43 -!- test__ has changed nick to ehird`. 16:07:34 GregorR: it seems that some acquatences of mine are helping your with your hat choice. 16:21:29 Wow, that's a lot of votes all of a sudden. 16:22:55 yup 16:26:40 -!- Feuermonster has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:28:34 -!- helios24_ has joined. 16:30:06 Hat choice? 16:30:12 We get to choose GregorR's hat? 16:30:42 http://www.choosemyhat.com/ 16:32:31 I bet he'd be even more willing to wear custom hats if they were given rather than merely suggested to him. 16:33:32 Absolutely. 16:33:51 [no leather, no coarse straw] 16:33:56 [and NO VELVET] 16:34:42 main = do vote velvetHat; changeIPAdress; main 16:34:57 s/Adress/Address/ 16:36:22 I'm sure it's possible to change those things, seeing as how they occasionally change by themselves and I think I used to think I knew how to do it. 16:36:58 disconnect and reconnect might work 16:37:03 or use IPv6 ! 16:37:11 Yes, disconnect and reconnect might work. 16:37:17 How would IPv6 do it? 16:37:41 And why do I seem to still be using IPv4? 16:39:03 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:39:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:39:13 with IPv6 your ISP would give you 18446744073709551616 IP addresses 16:39:16 you could keep changing 16:39:45 that is a nice number to chant 16:39:59 What's its log base 2? 16:40:09 64 16:41:01 "1 8 4 4 // 6 7 4 4 // 0 7 // 3 7 // 0 9 // 5 5 // 1 6 // 1 6" 16:41:16 I memorised it a while ago 16:41:46 3.14 159 265 35. 16:42:06 3.14 159 265 35 8797, is it? 16:42:15 looks familiar 16:42:28 2.7 1828 1828 45 90 45 16:42:42 sounds like a frikkin' insurance company phone number 16:43:17 Whoa, it's, like, angles measured in degrees. 16:43:19 And 1828. 16:43:46 * SimonRC recalls the advert with the owl on it and the number ending "28 28 20" :-P 16:44:15 I want to mentally calculate pi. 16:44:25 could be tricky 16:44:28 Obviously, that probably requires a space-efficient algorithm. 16:44:32 yes 16:45:17 Darn our "practical" memory systems. Our distant ancestors didn't need to calculate pi mentally, so we can't. 16:45:17 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:48:32 Oh, isn't this a wonderful formula for pi? http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/6/c/d6cb2a82b42bc60c89ed0987778bcd47.png 16:48:52 I'll just memorize that and use it. 16:48:55 I.X. 16:49:32 I.X.? 16:50:29 Iesu Xriste 16:51:29 Ah. 16:51:30 3.141592653589793238462643383279501 16:52:01 -!- jix_ has joined. 16:52:09 bsmntbombdood: from memory? 16:52:13 yeah 16:52:24 You're a nerd for having memorized it farther than 3.141592653589793238462643383279. 16:52:49 i'm a nerd for a lot of things 16:52:54 grr 16:53:25 but you don't know useful tthings like 2^0--2^16, 2^32, and 2^64 16:53:39 or the mean number of days in a year (calculated that in my head) 16:53:48 powers of 2 up to 16 is easy 16:53:50 um 16:53:59 mean number of *weeks* in a year 16:54:11 i'll settle for 52 16:54:13 (52 + 71/400) 16:54:51 this means that the cycle of weekdays repeats every 400 years 16:55:08 which means that some are more likely in various positions of the year than others are 16:55:08 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192. 16:55:15 Hmm. 16:55:31 16384, 32768, 65536! 16:55:41 2^32 =? 16:55:50 That one I don't know. 16:55:53 About 4 billion? 16:55:59 4294967296 = 2 * 2147483648 16:56:03 ok 16:56:17 2147483648 = 2 * 2147483648/2 16:56:18 and of course 2^64 = 18446744073709551616 16:56:21 And about 16 billion billion. :-) 16:56:30 Though apparently more like 18 billion billion. 16:56:39 Quintillion? 16:56:44 there needs to be a name for that... 16:56:48 ihope: yup 16:56:58 like kilo-inflation or something 16:57:05 Kilo-inflation? 16:57:08 A name for what? 16:57:17 O(2^2^n)? 16:57:22 c^d^n, rather? 16:57:34 oh yeah? 16:57:34 the way that powers of 2^10 diverge from the corresponding powers of 10^3 16:57:45 Oh! 16:57:50 * SimonRC has to go shopping now :-( 16:57:51 Um... 16:57:56 well i memorized the alphabet! 16:58:23 and that was when i was in first grade! 16:58:23 Well, the ratio grows exponentially. 16:58:36 Pff. I have a handy little tool that helps me remember the alphabet. 16:58:46 Here it is: QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM 16:59:21 ihope: it seems like a good idea to keep something with that list on your desk, for quick reference 16:59:50 I usually use a laptop. It tends to move around. 17:00:54 --[+++++>->++<<]>----->[--<.+>] This is a little tool *I* use to remember the alphabet. :p 17:01:03 I also know... um... the two last digits of Graham's number. 17:01:13 27, right? 17:01:28 In ternary, 00! >:-) 17:02:01 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:02:02 Hi! 17:02:11 here we go 17:02:34 oh no 17:02:37 }( What? You wanted fun? Too bad. ){ 17:02:41 :( 17:02:52 Everyone, put on the NSFW faces! 17:03:07 * ehird` puts on nsfw face 17:03:51 NSFW? 17:04:00 oh 17:04:11 Not Safe For Work 17:04:27 * asiekierka puts on "stfu, nsfw-ers" face 17:04:29 not safe for asiekierka 17:04:37 it'll be nsfa fool 17:05:53 * asiekierka puts on nsfnsfawsrs face 17:06:06 Not Safe For Not Safe For Asiekierka WorShipeRS 17:08:33 god i can't stand it 17:08:34 * ehird` screams 17:16:40 -!- asiekierka has quit. 17:16:45 Okay, to find the last two digits of Graham's number, you need to take it mod 100... 17:18:17 -!- helios24_ has changed nick to helios24. 17:22:05 ihope: too suspenseful! just tell us the digits! :P 17:22:18 27, I think. 17:25:11 okay 17:25:16 now relate 27 to 42 17:25:17 thanks. 17:27:21 2*7 = 42. 17:27:42 ...um, mod 14. 17:28:11 Mod 2 as well. 17:28:21 And mod 7, and mod 1. 17:29:07 how can something be 42, mod 14? 17:29:34 Congruent to 42, mod 14, then. 17:30:40 27*1.56 is roughly 42! 17:30:50 -!- jix_ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 17:31:56 27*14/9] = 42. 17:32:00 s/]// 17:36:14 now give me significance of 14/9 :p 17:36:32 It's a perfect square. 17:36:41 (4/3)^2 = 14/9. 17:36:50 (Roughly.) 17:36:55 that's not a perfect square 17:36:56 Aha! And backwards that is 234! 17:37:00 And ... 1 sucks, or something! 17:37:13 Er, 14/9 = 1, 4, 9! 17:37:21 So 27*14/9 = 42 = the answer to life, the universe and everything 17:37:23 Which is the square of 1, 2, 3! 17:37:29 Therefore... 17:37:37 g_64 contains the story of the universe! 17:37:44 "it's as easy as 1, 2, 3!" 17:37:46 or rather, everything up to the last two digits is the question 17:37:53 and it's encoded in a format related to 14/9! 17:37:55 it's so obvious! 17:38:39 Hmm, phi(40). 17:38:59 40 = 2 * 5 * 4, so phi(40) = 1 * 4 * 4 = 16. 17:40:47 G mod 100 = 3^G mod 100 = 3^(G mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^G mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(G mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^G mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(G mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^G mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(G mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^G mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^(G mod 2) mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod... 17:40:49 ...40) mod 100 = 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^1 mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100 17:41:04 ...and the last equation, 3^(3^(3^(3^(3^1 mod 4) mod 8) mod 16) mod 40) mod 100, is the important one. 17:41:51 (G = 3^G modulo any small enough number, where "small enough" means "much larger than 3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3^3".) 17:43:24 3^1 mod 4 is 3; 3^3 mod 8 is 3; 3^3 mod 16 is 11; 3^11 mod 40 is 27; 3^27 mod 100 is 87. 17:43:33 So I was wrong: the last two digits are 87. 17:45:13 oh 17:45:21 relate 87 to 42 17:45:22 kthx 17:45:33 oo 17:45:36 87 / 2 = 43 17:46:11 87 / 2.07 rougly= 42! 17:49:22 who cares 17:54:16 me 17:54:56 not i said the fly 18:00:08 I've heard that "6 * 9 = 42" was chosen arbitrarily. 18:00:32 it was 18:00:46 but all real conspiracy theorists know that 6 * 9 = 42_13 18:03:15 6 * 9 = 42 modulo 6. 18:03:30 :) 18:03:30 That is, 6 * 7 = 6 * 9 modulo 6. 18:03:38 How boring! 18:04:05 Modulo 6, 6 = 0, therefore 6 * 7 = 0 * 7 and 6 * 9 = 0 * 9. 18:04:16 42 is really 0! Oh noes! 18:04:20 ok, everything for some random amount of time from now on is an improvised play 18:04:26 carry on as normal 18:04:28 3..2...1...go 18:04:38 yes, i see this is going very well 18:04:41 Indeed. 18:04:47 Um... how are you, then? 18:04:53 I am fine. How are your chickens? 18:05:04 Dead, unfortunately. 18:05:10 Hey -- that's my line 18:05:16 Oh, sorry. 18:05:23 You're meant to say "Fine", and then I tell you "Aha! That is where you are wrong - FOR THEY ARE DEAD!" 18:05:28 Oh. 18:05:30 And then you say "What? But how?" and I say "I killed them!" 18:05:32 Um, they're fine, then. 18:05:40 Aha! That is where you are wrong - FOR THEY ARE DEAD! 18:05:44 What? But how? 18:05:51 They died of food poisoning, unfortunately. 18:05:58 Oh, that's a shame! 18:06:03 Yes, indeed it is. 18:06:04 What did they eat? 18:06:21 Um. You know. Just Mars. 18:06:30 The chocolate bar, that is, not the planet. 18:06:40 Oh, I thought you were talking about the Roman god. 18:06:44 However, they tried to eat the planet first. The chocolate bar was just a compromise. 18:07:07 And what did the bar contain that gave them food poisoning? 18:07:21 I shall file a wedding gown! 18:07:30 Hand me my file! 18:07:33 ... Um... nothing... I really must go now! Just... uh... going to the Mars factory... yeah... why? er, no reason! bye!!! 18:07:38 Okay, bye. 18:07:43 Say, did you kill them? 18:07:59 ... And now, you see, boss, I have put chicken-killing poison into all of the bars. 18:08:04 Soon, the world will be yours! 18:08:13 (Am I the boss now?) 18:08:17 RodgerTheGreat: You! Say "Excellent!" 18:08:23 Alternatively, you are the boss, ihope. 18:08:28 Excellent! 18:08:30 It's a very dynamic company; the bosses just come and go. 18:08:37 Yes, indeed it is excellent... mwahahahaha... 18:08:45 *stage whisper: BUT I HAVE MY OWN PLANS...* 18:08:55 *cut scene to teenager inventing something* 18:08:59 OH! So that's how time travel works! 18:09:14 Any time travel cancels itself out so that what you did when you travelled was always true! 18:09:30 I'll just go and time travel now- *universe explodes in paradox* 18:09:34 *cut scene to boss* 18:09:41 My my, I just felt as if a universe died. 18:09:44 Did you feel it too? 18:09:48 Yes, I did. 18:09:51 Quite odd. 18:09:53 Hm. That's nice. 18:09:56 *stabs you with a knife* 18:10:03 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 18:10:04 Mwahahahahahahahaha! Now the Earth will be MINE! 18:10:22 You, perilous fool, will die. But first... you must tell me the recipe! 18:10:44 ihope: But first.. you must tell me the recipe! 18:10:51 Um, lemme think... 18:11:19 Just mix this Instant Mix with a gallon of water and a large cup of sugar! 18:11:31 What does the Instant Mix contain? 18:11:39 TELL ME! *steadies knife at throat* 18:11:43 It says on the label, doesn't it? 18:12:05 It says "manure"... 18:12:13 Well then, that's what it contains! 18:12:20 Is that what the brown sticky stuff is, then? 18:12:24 Not chocolate? 18:12:29 Must be. 18:12:37 Well, then obviously my poison was not needed! 18:12:42 The chickens must have died from eating manure... 18:12:43 Indeed 18:12:44 but wait... 18:12:52 THEN WHAT DID I PUT IN THE RECIPE?!!!!! 18:13:02 *checks bottle* Oh god. "HUMANKILL2000" 18:13:12 *finishes your life* 18:13:16 *change scene to farm* 18:13:17 * ihope dies 18:13:18 I'm back! 18:13:23 So your chickens died? 18:13:29 Yes, they did. 18:13:33 Shame... 18:13:36 Indeed. 18:13:40 Think it might have something to do with THIS? *holds up packet of manure* 18:13:46 (gasp now) 18:13:49 * ihope gasps 18:13:57 Why, how did you know? 18:14:15 Um... 18:14:17 Never mind that! 18:14:26 You gave me this. *holds up HUMANKILL* 18:14:31 Gasp! 18:14:32 I ASKED FOR CHICKEN POISON?! 18:14:35 HOW DARE YOU BETRAY ME?! 18:14:37 Explain yourself! 18:14:47 Sorry! I... must have made a mistake! 18:15:13 ...Oh, it turns out CHICKENKILL is actually ridiculously expensive! 18:15:18 AVADA KEDAVRA! *universe disappears in a poof of genre-and-franchise-crossing* 18:15:26 So by giving you HUMANKILL instead, I sav-- 18:15:33 Say, this void is very nice. Don't you agree, little Grue? 18:15:39 Yes, very nice. 18:15:45 Are you a Grue, too? 18:15:47 Um... you know this void... does it happen to be dark? 18:15:53 I think so. 18:15:58 Isn't void devoid of most things? 18:15:59 Um, can Grues still eat in voids? 18:16:09 I don't see why not, as long as they're dark voids. 18:16:18 Um... you can't run away in voids, can you? 18:16:19 And if voids are devoid of most things, then they're devoid of light, so they're dark. 18:16:33 Um... you can't run away in voids, can you? 18:16:37 Well, even if you could, if there's no bright place to run to... 18:16:43 ...there's no point in running. 18:16:46 Shit. 18:16:52 Are you a Grue? 18:16:54 *gets eaten by you* 18:17:08 Hmm, apparently not... 18:17:26 Oh look, pink fluffy elephant! 18:17:29 A mouse! 18:17:33 Where? Where? 18:17:42 HERE! I am a mouse! 18:17:45 AAH! 18:18:02 * ihope runs away in a ridiculous manner 18:18:07 But I am a nice mouse. 18:18:08 Come back! 18:18:15 * ihope comes back in a ridiculous manner 18:18:20 H-h-hello. 18:18:32 *teeth chatter in a ridiculous manner* 18:18:32 Just kidding! I WANT TO EAT YOU! 18:18:36 OH NO! 18:18:40 * ihope runs away in a ridiculous manner 18:18:45 * ehird` appears in front of you 18:18:46 SUPRISE! 18:18:50 OH NO! 18:19:01 * ihope stomps the mouse in a ridiculous manner 18:19:08 * ehird` appears in front of you 18:19:11 *scene change* 18:19:16 Hello! I am your future self 18:19:17 Really? 18:19:18 Yes. 18:19:28 JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE TIME MACHINE - HERE IS YOUR SCRIPT 18:19:30 Oh god! 18:19:35 *turns on time machine* 18:19:39 Hello! I am your future self 18:19:43 *scene change* 18:19:46 Hello, butler! 18:19:48 Hello. 18:20:01 I LIKE MONEY 18:20:15 Would you like me to give you all my money, sir? 18:20:20 No! 18:20:20 I have returned 18:20:24 I want you to give me all of your money! 18:20:42 * ehird` gets out gun 18:20:44 MONEY! Now! 18:20:46 * ihope gives it 18:20:49 Hooray! 18:20:51 Now we can dance! 18:20:54 *dances* 18:20:59 Shall I dance too, sir? 18:21:03 Maybe! 18:21:08 * ihope dances, maybe 18:21:13 You should be in a quantum superposition of dancing and not dancing! 18:21:22 I should not be able to tell which you are in unless I look at you! 18:21:26 *looks away* 18:21:30 *(and dances)* 18:21:35 * ihope does a Hadamard transform, observes, and dances iff the result was 1 18:21:53 *looks at you* 18:21:56 WHAT ARE YOU DOING? 18:22:03 Um, dancing, sir! 18:22:05 Good! 18:22:09 *scene change* 18:22:19 Hm. I have found the universes' admin panel 18:22:26 Look... "stars" subpanel! 18:22:34 Hmmm... "planets" *click* 18:22:44 Look! There's Earth! It's SOL3 here, though. 18:22:51 Hmm... I can mess about with its core. 18:22:54 What shall I do? 18:23:00 Destroy it! 18:23:08 Turn it into antimatter! 18:23:13 I can "SJAKÓÁ", "ÁÁK", or "pÁ" 18:23:26 Um... the last option seems the simplest. 18:23:36 *computer voice: EXPLODERATING CORE* 18:23:36 Do that one. 18:23:38 OH SHI- 18:23:41 *WHABOOM* 18:23:43 *CRASH* 18:23:45 We're on Earth, aren't we? 18:23:45 *FOOOM* 18:23:52 *BIG BALL OF FIRE IS NEW EARTH* 18:23:54 *EXPLODES* 18:23:59 *EVERYTHING IMPLODES INTO ONE TINY DOT* 18:24:05 Well, I wonder what's going to ha- 18:24:11 *DOT EXPLODES* 18:24:19 Oh my. 18:24:23 *a long time later* 18:24:28 Hm. I have found the universes' admin panel 18:24:31 THE END 18:24:35 that was fun. 18:24:38 Indeed. 18:24:38 play over. 18:25:09 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186507137.html Saved forever. 18:25:25 And look, there's a Unicode character called "to slant; intricate; describe a writer's pen, lofty rocks; protruded rocks; resolute"! 18:25:58 paste it 18:26:18 in utf-8 18:26:29 Um, lemme see here... 18:28:00 The best I can manage: 㕊 18:28:14 just give me the html entity number :p 18:28:16 doesn't show in xchat 18:28:46 㕊 or 㕊 18:29:16 And apparently it's 0xE3 0x95 0x8A in UTF-8. 18:29:39 ~exec sys.stdout(u"\u354A") 18:29:40 UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u354a' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128) 18:29:41 um i need a font with it in 18:30:12 %eval "\u13642" 18:30:14 er 18:30:18 Well, it's supported in Code2000 and DFSongStd. 18:30:57 obviously 18:31:03 what does it look like in them? 18:31:30 Here, have a web page devoted to that character: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/354a/index.htm 18:31:48 And an SVG sample: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/354a/sample.svg 18:32:47 oh, it's japanese or something 18:32:52 that's less interesting 18:33:10 It's certainly Han. 18:33:16 well; whatever 18:33:31 Indeed, less interesting. 18:33:45 Maybe I can find some Klingon. 18:34:05 there should be a "making a simple conlang for beginners" tutorial 18:34:11 most of them drag on and are really boring =p 18:34:18 there's toki pona. 18:34:22 How about "just make one"? 18:34:29 lament: that's a language 18:34:29 toki pona li pona li suli ala. 18:34:38 not a tutorial for designing conlangs 18:34:42 i was going to learn toki pona 18:34:45 Not that hard. 18:34:50 bsmntbombdood: but chose haskell instead? 18:34:56 heh 18:35:06 ihope: i know english and around 3 phrases of lojban; and I know next to nothing about linguistics 18:35:09 * lament considers adding monads to toki pona 18:35:10 "not that hard" is not that true 18:35:20 * pikhq knows English, some Japanese, and some Esperanto 18:35:28 Hey, it can be superficially different but really English at its core :-P 18:35:45 ihope: that isn't a real conlang though 18:35:51 It isn't? 18:35:51 ehird`: just like people who don't know anything but C shouldn't go around designing programming languages, people who don't know any linguistics and only speak one language shoudln't design conlangs. 18:36:03 lament: hey, just a small toy one 18:36:09 * pikhq *started* a conlang a few years back. . . 18:36:10 ehird`: learn basic linguistics, it's interesting and easy. 18:36:11 for getting the feel of conlang design 18:36:23 Come up with a syntax for English! 18:36:24 ehird`: as well as being necessary for designing conlangs 18:36:26 The language itself didn't come very far, but the writing system was quite elegant. 18:36:38 well, sure, i know the very basics of linguistics 18:36:38 ehird`: read up on language typology 18:36:44 what's a conlang? 18:36:51 constructed language 18:36:51 Pretty much, I discovered my grammar was superficially similar to Esperanto, and dropped it at that point. 18:37:00 Here, have a rule: -> 18:37:24 ehird`: for starters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphological_typology 18:38:07 consider that a tutorial :) 18:38:08 Conlangs are fun. :) 18:40:37 Languages of expression and languages of programming are very different. 18:41:06 (ihope) 3.14 159 265 35 8797, is it? <<< nope. 18:41:13 8979? 18:41:50 (bsmntbombdood) 3.141592653589793238462643383279501 <<< wrong again 18:42:07 oklofok: you mean right 18:50:38 -!- olsner has joined. 18:51:22 well, if that's right, then i'd have to be wrong. 18:51:32 so... you don't really stand a change 18:51:37 i've never been wrong yet 18:51:49 After all, we all know that oklofok > bsmntbombdood. 18:52:18 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 18:52:21 or somth 18:52:22 *smth 18:52:35 Also, it seems bsmntbombdood and bsmnt_bot are now bsb and bs_ rather than bb and b_, since Blejdfist sort of messed things up a little. 18:53:12 i actually learned till 120th digit, but i've forgotten them since i forgot to revise the next day 18:53:18 *the 18:53:54 * olsner also once learned to 120 but is now back to just 60 18:53:54 i guess i didn't forget, i was just lazy 18:54:01 :O 18:54:04 my numbers exactly 18:54:09 if that was 60 digits... 18:54:15 i mean 60 decimals 18:54:24 yeah yeah 18:54:50 ah indeed, most people prolly do sequences of 6 digits 18:54:52 i mean 18:54:59 like 3.141592 653589 79... 18:55:57 i know π to ∞ places 18:56:02 it's 10_π 18:56:23 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 18:56:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:56:44 oops. 18:57:09 I have a mixture of chunksizes... starting with two (I didn't set out to learn a lot of pi, just as much as could fit in a 64-bit float ;-), then a few groups of 3 or 4, then like pairs of 4's to 60, and 60-120 I memorized in 3's 18:57:30 Base pi is fun. 18:57:41 Too bad numbers like 4 have weird expansions. :-P 18:57:47 And besides, everyone knows base e is better! 18:58:17 3 . 14 15 92 65 35 89 79 32 38 46 264 338 32 79 50 2884 1971 6939 (9375 1058) (2097 4944) 18:59:44 i'd start with 3 . 141592 18:59:49 seems more natural to me 19:00:21 3 . 141592 6535 8979 3238 4626 33832 7950 2884 1971 6939 9375 1058 2097 4944 19:00:28 Actually, I think it's 3.14 1 59 265 for me. 19:00:50 ehird`: well, it's not natural, it's transcendental 19:00:53 maybe 3 . 14159 26535 8979 3238 4626 33832 7950 2884 1971 6939 9375 1058 2097 4944 19:00:54 :-) 19:01:00 olsner: har har har har har har har yawn 19:01:09 if i didn't like big blocks for some reason it'd be: 19:01:54 3.14 159 265 3589 79 3238 4626 338 3279 502 884 197 169 399 375 105 820 974 944 19:01:56 something like that 19:11:06 Maybe we should try to improvise a language. 19:11:43 See what we can say without resorting to English at all. 19:12:38 humta! 19:12:46 Is that in a language other than English? 19:12:53 * oklofok habrata asisasi 19:13:08 whut? 19:13:14 Podemos usar las otras lenguas, por supuesto. :-P 19:13:16 is 'humta' english? 19:13:25 Well, no. 19:13:25 supuesto? 19:13:28 But is it in any language at all? 19:13:33 err nope 19:13:35 "Por supuesto" is "of course", I think. 19:13:47 i have really no vocabulary in spanish 19:14:01 i just know some grammar and pronunciation 19:14:08 #implang for anybody who feels like participating. 19:14:15 Podemos usar = let's use? 19:14:24 We can use. 19:14:36 i always feel like everything 19:14:58 You feel like everything? 19:15:04 and what's 'otras' mean? 19:15:58 i learned 50 digits of pi using conway's method 19:16:05 (conway's chunks) 19:17:34 lament: you're 10 digits away from mine and oklofok's baseline, and 70 digits away from our max 19:18:48 "otras" is "other", I think. 19:19:43 that's what I guessed 19:19:55 seems I do know a little bit of spanish after all 19:20:35 Indeed. 19:22:53 olsner: i don't feel like learning any more, and 50 is a nice round number :) 19:23:01 (ihope) You feel like everything? <<< yes, i feel absolutely everything possible at all times 19:23:25 lament: just pointing out that you're behind ;-) 19:23:35 olsner: actually i know all digits of pi 19:23:40 olsner: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 19:23:42 i want to be able to program my mental computer... 19:23:43 :) 19:23:46 the gui we're given sucks! 19:24:04 lament: har har har har hrrg 19:24:34 does it occur to anyone else that learning mathematics might be completely useless? our brains might have mathematics at the core, as a basis for our thoughts, so our maths is like doing computer arithmetic with string cat'ing :) 19:25:58 ehird`: if there was an easier / more "natural" way, it would have probably been discovered already. 19:27:03 lament: not really - it's like running windows on top of dos with no way to get into dos 19:27:05 .. kind of :p 19:27:28 ehird`: the reason people do math is first of all because it's practical 19:27:32 sure 19:27:39 ehird`: if there was an easier way to achieve the same results, people would do that instead 19:28:04 alternatively, we haven't discovered the lower level of the brain yet so can't 19:28:33 right. Feel free to discover it. 19:28:50 But I feel that experienced mathematicians already work at that level. 19:29:01 at least the good ones. 19:29:39 discovering now 19:29:42 discovered! 19:29:48 oh shit, i just programmed in a viru- 19:35:51 oklofok: I think so far, our improvised language is sort of failing. :-P 19:38:00 :P 19:38:09 i'm just talking in german for fun :) 19:39:00 oklofok: but on IRC, all that matters is what you're writing... and you seem to be writing english ;-) 19:39:34 Is there anyone here who knows both a Romance language and a Germanic language other than English? 19:39:53 damn i wish i'd've learned spanish... 19:40:23 sind hier deutschsprechende leute? 19:40:30 This is difficult indeed. 19:41:09 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GregOrr. 19:41:24 ja ;-) ich bin nicht deutsch, aber ich kann es siemlich sprechen 19:42:14 -!- GregOrr has changed nick to GregorR. 19:42:16 heh 19:42:32 that was... quite ziemlich gespracht.. 19:42:34 GregorR: who do you think you are? 19:42:43 Greg Orr. 19:43:22 If you're Greg Orr, then who's Greg Orr supposed to be? 19:43:25 You? 19:43:43 'ziemlich' is kinda like the intersection of the meanings of 'quite' and 'rather'... if that makes any sense 19:43:49 you can't use it like that anyway 19:43:51 :P 19:44:17 and a few french phrases "je suis une pomplemousse avec deux jeune bleu", "je ne sais pas, j'aime tout le coleurs" ;-) 19:45:23 oh, I forgot the 'gut' 19:45:49 I think we're sort of expecting ourselves to become fluent in a completely made-up language. 19:46:38 it just sounded right because the phrase I was aiming for also begins with 'siemlich' 19:47:09 there's no 'siemlich' 19:47:14 :| 19:47:15 or *ziemlich ;-) 19:48:35 I think I'll go try to recruit some people for #implang. 19:49:00 oklofok: whut? have I been making up german words? 19:49:24 so it seems 19:49:53 hmm... i should read the rest of my german vocabulary 19:50:00 60 pages left \o/ 19:50:16 but ziemlich is a word 19:50:33 that's like an hour... but why not irc for 5 days and use the rest of the summer for it. 19:55:23 What we really need is a network where things like #implang are actually likely to get off the ground :-P 19:55:52 and #implang would be like a channel where you mustn't speak any known language? 19:56:08 it exists 19:56:09 and yes 19:56:29 Everything but English is allowed. 19:56:37 I'm speaking Spanish, and I think oklofok is speaking German. 19:57:26 * olsner accidentily joined #impland instead 19:58:08 :D 20:03:00 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:11:19 Python's list comprehension seems just like a not-as-powerful CL LOOP to me. 20:12:53 python's list comprehensions are ugly imo.... though i kinda like them 20:24:39 Sukoshi`: they come from haskell, in case you haven't noticed 20:34:56 lament: Ah-hah. 20:35:26 #implang is doing well 20:35:28 we can say basic stuff 20:35:35 zolamuldon - "no words", words that mean no 21:18:12 -!- Sukoshi` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:20:31 -!- Sukoshi has joined. 21:27:13 CL LOOP? 21:28:19 CL LOOP is Turing equivalent, if I recall. 21:28:34 What is it? 21:28:43 Common Lisp's LOOP macro. 21:29:29 It pretty much does anything any loop construct of any language will do. 21:30:11 What does it do? 21:30:26 Yes. 21:31:46 Uh-huh. 21:31:54 oh yeah 21:33:27 LOOP probably does everything from mapcar to forth's begin..while..while..repeat..else..then loop 21:34:12 How is it defined? 21:36:09 dunno ;-) as far as I understand forth, those control structures are just manipulations on some kind of control stack and can be combined virtually without limits 21:36:52 You know what it's useful for, but not its properties? 21:39:27 oh, you're asking about CL's LOOP, not about forth? I' not a big fan of loop so I've actually never used it ;-) 21:42:17 It's a macro which does all of the above. 21:44:10 What does it take, what does it return? 21:50:10 CL's LOOP is u-g-l-y 21:50:19 it's like anti-lisp 21:51:46 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:52:42 ihope: it takes a very complicated syntax, and returns whatever you want it to 21:53:06 I see. 21:53:21 #implang is doign very well 21:53:27 we can already have a simple conversation :) 21:54:16 at least 10 xor 10 bots must be in #esoteric 21:54:25 good, we meet the requirements 21:54:35 Not really. 21:54:53 at least 0 21:54:54 we meet that 21:54:59 Oh, at *least*. 21:55:10 Sorry, I saw it without the at least. 21:55:41 botcount(); returns 1, and 10^10 < 1. 21:55:54 i'm a bot 21:56:13 Is bsmnt_bot a real person? 21:56:28 bsmnt_bot is a subproccess 21:57:32 there's 1 bot on this channel? 21:57:42 ololobot! 21:57:57 2 or 3, depending on whether you count bsmntbombdood? 21:58:22 yay, my bot was acknowledged 21:58:59 Oh, and clog is a bot. 21:59:04 That makes 3. 21:59:20 the definition of a bot is that it's nick ends in 'bot'! 21:59:37 Is not. :-P 22:00:29 cmeme too 22:00:36 err... something about your mom as a comeback. 22:00:59 What does cmeme do? 22:01:24 log 22:08:39 -!- ihope has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 22:16:04 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklokok. 22:32:44 -!- olsner has quit. 23:17:17 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:42:33 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 2007-08-08: 00:03:21 -!- GregorR has changed nick to noteventhyme. 00:13:34 -!- noteventhyme has changed nick to GregorR. 00:15:26 You know, Mussolini made the trains run on thyme. 00:37:30 -!- sebbu has quit ("Leaving"). 00:40:15 pikhq: that is like, so last week 00:41:26 * SimonRC ges to bed 00:52:45 last century 00:52:58 Huzzah. 01:43:56 -!- ihope has joined. 02:50:35 -!- cosmic_string has joined. 02:56:28 -!- jix_ has quit ("CommandQ"). 03:03:58 Why doesen't Programming Python explain all of Python's syntax? 03:04:28 Is it meant for beginners who already know the language? 03:06:04 Maybe the Nutshell series is more for me. Java in a Nutshell was a great book (and I still refer to it). It goes first through the syntax for doing all the things most programming languages have, then it goes over OOP, then over common idioms, and lastly over the standard library (and then has a huge reference on the library). 03:09:34 books are for wimps 03:09:37 just read the spec 03:09:50 oh wait, python doesn't have a specc 03:10:04 ;D 03:10:18 I generally want a spec and the common idioms, yes. 03:10:28 And examples. 03:11:33 or you could just read http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html, then http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html and http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html 03:11:47 Dead trees are nice. 03:14:14 well, the second link is a nice reference once you're done with your dead trees 03:14:32 Sure then. 03:21:26 i wonder if tar archives are random access 03:21:34 They aren't. 03:22:04 i figured 03:22:10 that nasty "tape" thing 03:28:40 Oh yeah, tape archive. 03:28:44 Come up with a new tar! 03:28:52 A... um, non-tape archive. Call it nar. 03:28:59 dar? 03:29:03 rar, random access archive? 03:29:15 dar and rar already exist, heh 03:29:17 Call it Zip++. 03:29:31 ...Are rar and dar uncompressed multi-file things? 03:29:42 No, they're *compressed* multi-file things. 03:29:58 is gz random access? 03:30:05 *No*. 03:30:19 Well, tar isn't ever compressed, is it? 03:30:27 Tar itself is uncompressed. 03:30:28 tar -z 03:30:36 Your mom is never compressed either. 03:30:41 bsmntbombdood: That pipes tar through gzip. 03:30:46 i know 03:30:56 and tar -j pipes it through bzip2 03:30:57 And how many people have created single-file compression algorithms called "feather" so far? 03:31:10 Sukoshi: That's stupid enough when testosterone-driven guys do it. 03:31:22 Such a bad pun it must have been done hundreds of times! 03:31:29 pikhq: That's the reason behind me saying it ;) 03:31:39 The point is to use the jokes when it's so stupid, it's pathetically funny. 03:31:43 it stops being ironic the second time 03:31:45 it's not funny 03:31:58 And, of course, the estrogen-driven female bit makes it even more stupid. 03:32:07 actually i compressed his mom just last night 03:32:21 you made her wear a corset? 03:32:34 A) Corset B) ??? C) Profit 03:32:35 It overflows once on funny_t (unsigned long), so it's at funny level 0. 03:32:55 It's so funny it overflows a bignum! Wait, it doesn't; it's just not funny. 03:32:57 :-P 03:33:02 pikhq: things can be negative-funny 03:33:23 That just means they're really funny, bsmntbombdood. 03:33:40 You know, with the sign-bit on? 03:33:52 The signed versus unsigned stuff is a teeny bit stupid. 03:33:56 But not very. 03:34:03 (And by stupid, I mean silly.) 03:34:10 why? 03:34:20 Arithmetic is the same; it's just comparison and overflow checks that are different. 03:34:25 it would be stupid in a high level, strongly typed language 03:34:39 ihope: comparison is a big one. 03:34:44 Having different types for signed and unsigned would be stupid? 03:34:53 lament: you could use different comparison operators. 03:35:04 that's how forth does it 03:35:05 You could add a constant to both and then compare :-P 03:35:12 with doubles too 03:35:36 It has more than one of each comparison operator for doubles? 03:35:48 actually signed vs. unsigned IS a high-level feature 03:35:57 a truly low-level language, such as forth, doesn't have it 03:36:25 it has an operator that works on doubles for every math operator for singles 03:36:40 the point is, you're dealing with 2 completely different types - a subset of the naturals, and a subset of the integers 03:36:42 it has to be, because doubles take up two stack slots 03:37:01 the implementation happens to be very similar, but because C is high-level, it abstracts that and presents them as two different types. 03:37:05 while forth doesn't. 03:37:20 we have different definitions of high-level 03:37:28 Quite. 03:37:50 bsmntbombdood: won't you agree that "high-level" implies a higher degree of abstraction? 03:38:12 I wouldn't say the implementation "happens to be" very similar. There's a big mathematical reason for it. 03:38:12 higher-level 03:38:23 And caring about the *sign bit* sure as hell isn't high level. 03:38:25 ...or maybe I would. :-P 03:39:07 i guess i mean it would be stupid in a to-the-metal language 03:39:12 another example: C has strings, despite them being simply arrays of characters 03:39:19 but C abstracts the implementation 03:39:22 (badly) 03:39:27 the only reason C has signed and unsigned is so programmers can save a bit 03:39:31 it's a high-level feature 03:39:39 C doesn't have strings 03:39:43 the stdlib has strings 03:39:44 Funny, I thought that C did no abstraction on that. . . 05:50:12 -!- clog has joined. 05:50:12 -!- clog has joined. 06:14:58 i never learnded glass 06:15:08 Blasphemer. 06:15:12 * pikhq <3 Glass 06:16:04 blaspheme (plural blasphemes) 1. Things said against the Church or God. 06:16:39 Gregor is a diety in the Church of Esome. 06:17:05 -!- olsner has joined. 06:48:04 -!- cosmic_string has quit. 07:05:56 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 07:06:18 -!- Arrogant_ has joined. 07:08:12 -!- olsner has quit. 07:16:24 (lament) bsmntbombdood: when you see a[b] and b[a], you think the same thing? <<< if i see *(a+b) and *(b+a), i do not think about the same thing 07:28:39 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 07:32:30 bsmntbombdood sure knows how to make a conversation out of nothing 07:32:39 what 07:33:39 you sure know how to press the buttons of these esolangists 07:33:49 i've seen it happen before 07:34:38 heh 07:34:43 and you mean esolinguist 07:35:19 well yes, i just like to make my words wrong 07:35:31 esolinguist does sound kinda nice 07:36:39 -!- olsner has joined. 07:54:17 -!- olsner has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:04 Python's generators are just continuations, aren't they? 08:05:49 no 08:26:19 -!- Arrogant_ has quit ("Leaving"). 09:01:21 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:13:21 I'm starting to understand what Pythonic code is. 09:13:33 Coding in Python feels very Lispy indeed. 09:16:11 python is imperative 09:16:17 so, no 09:17:02 I forgot that you use Scheme functionally. 09:17:34 who doesn't use scheme functionally? 09:17:55 Me. 09:18:15 freak 09:18:21 Yus. I know. 09:18:49 i mean, i still use the ! functions 09:19:19 In general, I code imperatively, unless it's a small utility thing. 09:32:02 (define (sukoshi) "omg syntactic sugarz!") 09:36:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 10:35:10 night all 10:35:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 10:47:25 -!- cherez has joined. 11:02:27 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:17:21 -!- jix_ has joined. 13:48:46 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:33:00 -!- ihope has joined. 14:34:46 Oh dear. 14:35:00 My client was repeatedly trying to connect to freenode with the nick %ihope. 14:35:06 ...which is invalid. 14:39:17 blahbot did it! 14:39:26 he is rebelling against the use of % as his command character 14:40:00 Get him in here and see if %ihope does anything. 14:40:28 okay 14:40:36 (Op me in #implang while you're at it, will you? :-P) 14:40:50 -!- blahbot` has joined. 14:41:13 %ihope 14:41:15 %cmds 14:41:16 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, nc, wapr, rp (use %help for argument information) 14:41:17 naw 14:54:59 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 15:21:49 %quit 15:21:49 -!- blahbot` has quit. 15:21:52 :| 15:22:00 %comeback 15:22:05 %please 15:22:14 i have too much power 15:23:20 ok 15:23:23 restarting 15:23:32 -!- blahbot` has joined. 15:23:48 can i still ruin the party? 15:23:59 i guess i can if that was but a reboot 15:33:48 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:34:08 hi everyone 15:35:14 is that a 'hi' for everyone individually or a general 'hi'? 15:35:39 that's implementation-defined 15:36:49 i'm talking about this spesific case 15:37:31 as I said, implementation-defined- think of yourself as an interpreter (implementation), whereas my statement constitutes a program 15:39:09 i am a buggy implementation 15:39:12 you just offended me. 15:39:30 unfortunate 15:39:42 this is the problem with undefined behavior 15:41:23 my implementation does not guess if it's not sure, while i know i have a direct contact to the programmer in time of need 15:41:36 so, can you, the programmer, tell me what you meant? 15:42:08 I forgot to comment my code. <:/ 15:42:19 * RodgerTheGreat runs nm on his binaries 15:42:35 the greatest problem in undefined behavior is that you make fun of the compilers, i have to agree with that 15:44:01 well, It appears I make a call to NGenerateGroup_GrePi or something. 15:44:09 %@$! name-mangling 15:46:12 i am a nice compiler 15:46:17 i compiled that as 15:46:29 pushobj (hi->every)one $$ 15:46:42 which is saying hi to every, and only one every, and "fuck you" to everyone else and i am not every :( 15:47:06 clearly, I failed to write portable IRP 15:48:16 yes 15:48:19 you should write it as 15:48:45 $inline_bytecode [ pushobj everyone ] \hi% exit; 15:49:08 Looks like valid Tcl. 15:49:55 how about foreach x in(#Esoteric) [greet ->x;] ? 15:50:22 foreach isn't in the standard 15:50:24 How about: 15:50:29 Greet everyone in #esoteric 15:50:34 also, greet ->x; only works if your interpreter has the iso-morphism honorific rule 15:50:48 pikhq: everyone can still be parsed as (EXPR->every)one 15:51:09 pikhq: what if everyone is autoboxed into "everyone"? Then we run into the same problem as ehird`'s compiler 15:51:23 ah, wait, a less-hacky portable version can be done with the pattern-matching name feature 15:51:30 here's how: 15:52:03 for [ ] ->greet $ 15:52:24 hm 15:53:02 hmm 15:53:05 there's a shortcut for that 15:53:12 for$ ->greet 15:54:22 and as we all know 15:54:31 an unbounded-for with a method-accessor can be shortened 15:54:33 so, that's: 15:54:38 $->greet 15:54:51 and, since it's unambigious here, the full code is 15:54:57 $ greet 15:55:10 alright, so do all the test compilers here agree upon the acceptability of the new standard "$ greet"? 15:55:50 ooh, i forgot 15:55:54 you can make it shorter by one character 15:55:58 greet$ 15:56:10 using the operator-postfix-matching feature 15:56:28 and, since greet is the default entry method 15:56:32 it can simply be: 15:56:37 &$ 15:56:54 which is unambigiously equal to & 15:57:01 so, i suggest "&" as a replacement for "hi everyone" 15:57:54 ihope: ping 16:06:29 does this compile right to everyone? 16:15:53 ehird`: pong. 16:16:04 such a slow irp response. 16:16:47 welcome to the world of high-latency scripting 16:18:16 ehird`: that's what happens when your interpreter is out having breakfast. 16:19:06 :p 16:49:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:49:45 sebbu: do you speak French at all? 16:50:23 i'm french 16:50:34 it's my mother tongue 16:50:46 why ? 16:51:09 Well, there's this sort of experimental thing I... am doing, kind of. 16:51:23 Trying to communicate without using English and hoping a new language comes about somehow. 16:51:44 so is #implang abandoned now? 16:52:01 I think I'm trying to get more people for it. 16:52:13 but #implang turned into a planned language, didn't it? 16:52:18 I guess I'm not sure of whether I'm really doing that. 16:53:00 Well, I don't think I really like the way that that's going. 16:53:22 aww 16:53:24 it was going well :( 16:53:30 Hmm... 17:17:44 -!- olsner has joined. 17:44:53 everything sucks ass 17:45:10 try to keep that in mind, y'all 17:45:43 By "ass", do you mean "donkey" or That Body Part with Many Names? 17:47:02 latter 17:47:26 former 17:50:01 :< 17:56:57 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:57:13 -!- jix__ has joined. 18:47:17 -!- ns_ has joined. 18:47:31 I should write an Unlambda interpreter in Haskell. 18:47:39 Er, why is my nick ns_? 18:47:40 -!- ns_ has changed nick to ihope_. 18:47:54 I guess it didn't get the picture when I said /nick ihope_... 18:52:43 unlambda interpreter in haskell = 5 minute job 18:52:57 just represent the primitives as real haskell functions 18:53:00 I'm taking it slow. :-) 18:56:13 hmm... how do you do call/cc in haskell? 18:57:01 Continuation monads. 18:57:23 ah, a monad.. should've guessed ;-) 18:57:36 Unlambda in just about any functional language is trivial. . . 18:57:42 callCC :: (MonadCont m) => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a 18:58:00 Don't tell me I should be done by now. I haven't started yet. 19:00:30 * pikhq should implement Unlambda in Scheme to learn some Scheme. . . 19:00:44 Know of any good Scheme interpreters? 19:00:59 I don't. 19:01:05 Helpful. 19:01:10 Indeed. 19:01:28 we used Chez Scheme for our SICP course 19:01:33 I do know "Write Yourself a Scheme in 48 Hours", a Haskell tutorial which presumably results in a Scheme interpreter. 19:01:41 Know of it, rather. 19:02:08 oh, that reminds me that I was thinking of going through that tutorial... any day now 19:02:18 Also, . is to | as ? is to the command Unlambda needs. 19:03:35 hmm... please clarify? 19:04:40 `|X returns `X.x where x is the current character. There should be a command--", say--such that `"X returns `X?x where x is the current character. 19:06:50 I think the monad I want is ContT IO. 19:10:25 (Also, I wonder if this kernel update will break ndiswrapper.) 19:33:07 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 19:41:31 good scheme interpreter? 19:41:33 chicken! 20:20:38 -!- blahbot` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:24:35 omg it's raining 20:33:48 pikhq: mit-scheme 20:34:54 tree rewriting! 20:36:52 aaaaardappel 20:39:29 Aardappel? 20:40:10 sure 20:41:08 i love that lang, though i haven't really used it 20:41:12 It's like an aardvark, except more of a potato. 20:41:16 wouter is one smooth talker 20:41:18 *writer 20:41:26 or 20:41:31 did i remember the name wrong? 20:41:37 And it's Dutch! 20:41:48 And who? 20:41:51 aardvark? 20:41:55 whuzz that+ 20:42:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aardvark 20:42:14 Orycteropus afer! 20:42:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Orycteropus_afer_stuffed.jpg omg i've never seen anything this beautiful :O 20:44:30 Quite the thing! 20:44:46 Rather scary. 20:45:47 "[The House Mouse] is probably the second most populous mammalian species on Earth (after humans)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Mouse 20:46:06 Quite the thing. If humans are the most populous mammal, and they're so big... 20:48:00 I'd like to see the top-ten populous animals... things like cockroaches - how many can there be on the entire earth? 20:48:14 -!- oklokok has left (?). 20:48:14 -!- oklokok has joined. 20:48:44 Hmm... 20:48:54 Heck, I wonder what the most populous organism is. 20:49:13 your mo- er, yeah 20:50:43 Whoa, nematode. 20:52:01 hehe, the Methuselah Mouse Prize is somewhat like competing in server uptimes, but for mouse breeders 20:52:17 "Heck, i wonder what most people thing an orgasm is." 20:52:25 s/thing/think 20:52:36 current record: a mouse that lived for 1819 days 20:59:13 MY MOUSE LIVED FOR 14 EO 20:59:17 -ns. 20:59:30 House Mouse: Mus musculus. Apparently "musculus" means "little mouse", and the word "muscle" comes from that. 21:01:23 Looks like there have been only four eons. 21:01:28 This is the fourth. 21:02:21 so my body has lots of little mice 21:02:27 acting as muscles? 21:03:40 Nope. Ideally, your muscles make it look like there are mice running around under your skin. 21:03:46 At least, that's what I've heard on the radio. 21:04:02 And that ideal is an old one, not a current one. :-) 21:30:18 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 21:30:50 -!- Rugxulo has quit (Client Quit). 22:31:16 fuck :( 22:31:48 they won't give me the storm sewer map 22:36:30 who 22:36:33 they say i need a better reason than "just curious" 22:36:38 the city government 22:36:59 they think you're a terrorist 22:38:11 probably 22:39:30 also i think he's a terrorist... who in their right mind would have 'bomb' in their nick unless they're a terrorist... 22:39:39 lol 22:39:53 Claim it's for a school project. 22:40:22 i thought about that 22:40:56 but, they invited me to come talk to their engineer who could show me how the system works 22:41:08 which is probably what they would have done if i said it was for school 22:42:28 "the water comes in, then it goes out" 22:43:11 lament: Python is indeed very nice. 22:43:11 greaaaaaat... 22:43:22 The only thing I don't like about it is the somewhat-shoddy OOP. 22:43:51 What's the point of having to include self as a parameter in each object method? 22:44:47 foo.bar() is just syntactic sugar for class_of_foo.bar(foo) 22:45:11 bsmntbombdood: Claim you are writing a novel about a volcano erupting in the city and you think the storm drains could be used to re-direct lava. 22:45:40 That was the plot of some movie the "sci-fi" channel show occasionally 22:45:44 I realize that oklopol, but still, they could have made the system a bit more OOP-ish. 22:45:50 several of their movies in fact 22:45:54 If it's, as it claims, ``built-around-OOP''. 22:46:31 erm, you are using a silly definition of OOP 22:47:02 http://paulgraham.com/reesoo.html 22:47:11 Sukoshi: i don't like the self thing either, but just because i don't like typing the extra 5 characters. 22:47:14 you are concentrating too much on #9 22:47:26 otoh, Python is heavily oriented to #9 22:47:35 Yes I am. I'm assuming a message-passing system with methods belonging to classes that naturally perform state-based behavior. 22:47:40 SimonRC: that wouldn't require knowing the real locations 22:48:07 On that assumption, which I believe is tacit when referring to Python, I make my arguments :) 22:48:11 Sukoshi: self is explicitly passed, rather than implicitly 22:48:14 so what? 22:48:17 bsmntbombdood: it might do. Depends if there is a bright that falls down blocking it or something 22:48:28 a bright? 22:48:28 SimonRC: You've just commited a grave logical fallacy: Argumentum ad Paul Graham. 22:48:29 you could just walk round them and map them yourself 22:48:39 i wouldn't know where the tunnels and outfalls are 22:48:40 pikhq: :D 22:48:55 and which manholes are storm drains and which are sanitary/water 22:48:59 pikhq: I just think there is more to OO than the Smalltalk family 22:49:09 manhole... hihi 22:49:28 ah, I was thining of storm drains as the big open things like in the movie Grease. 22:49:31 oklopol: put your man-stick in my man-hole? 22:49:37 hehehehe 22:49:42 lolol 22:49:46 bsmntbombdood: with pleasure 22:49:47 I'm familliar with the different systems but, it is a bit baroque to talk about edge cases of a multimethod system when referring to a message-passing system, is my point :) 22:49:53 Besides, he ignores Snit's delegation behavior. . . 22:49:58 SimonRC: outfalls, you mean? 22:49:59 we'll do that next time you're in finland 22:50:08 bsmntbombdood: dunno 22:50:15 if i could find the outfalls, i wouldn't need the map 22:55:35 maybe i can get someone to go taxpayer on their ass 22:56:04 `` "Heck, i wonder what most people thing an orgasm is."'' <--- ?!?! 22:56:59 bsmntbombdood: with that there is always the worry that they will offer you a refund. :-) 22:57:25 (about 1¢) 22:59:12 SimonRC: like that would happen 23:00:38 speaking of OO, haskell so doesn't have any :( 23:01:41 erm 23:01:56 actually: 23:03:18 by the reeese definitions, it has 1, 2, 4, 5, and 7 23:06:52 SimonRC: that was how i read what ihope said a couple lines before that 23:06:58 ah, ok 23:09:32 by the what definitions? 23:13:14 I guess fixing ndiswrapper is a little fun. 23:17:12 -!- olsner has quit. 23:21:06 lament: http://paulgraham.com/reesoo.html 23:27:24 i don't think 5 applies to haskell, but in any case the fact that so many definitions apply seems to suggest that that list of definitions is bullshit 23:27:33 http://pi.ytmnd.com/ ha! i love that song. it also occurs to me that this is an excellent way to memorize pi 23:29:32 I don't think I get number 1. 23:33:42 i should make an infinite flash piece for pi 23:33:52 that oughtta be trivial 23:34:05 Mmh, I don't want to have a password anymore. 23:34:17 I've typed it rather a many times today. 23:42:48 * GregorR 's laptop has a fingerprint scanner. 23:42:57 <-- winnar 23:43:33 * pikhq 's desktop has a unique entry method composed of a collection of alphanumeric buttons, used for both textual and mathematic input 23:43:54 Well. "unique". 23:44:34 Is this new and unique method of input called a "keyboard"? 23:44:38 oklopol: but can you make it generate that song 23:44:56 it's just a beat + some vocals :p 23:45:03 record vocals for 0-9 and some patterns of numbers, 23:45:15 play the background using some synthesiser or whatever 23:45:22 and play the vocal samples on top while scrolling by pi 23:45:30 perfect way to memorize pi! 23:46:07 Typing my password requires pressing Shift four times... which isn't that bad, I guess. 23:46:34 GregorR: Yes, it is! Quite incredible! (I take it you have one, too!) 23:46:47 um for some reason these digits popped into my head 2058914058291749238410697980 23:46:49 pikhq: I have at least four :P 23:46:53 i think they are in pi somewhere, but i got a part wrong 23:46:55 i think 23:46:58 * pikhq counts 23:47:03 pikhq: I also have a touchscreen laptop OOOOH BURN 23:47:08 near the start, of course 23:47:15 Touchscreen laptop? 23:47:20 My laptop has a touchpad! 23:47:22 :-P 23:47:22 4, if you count a broken laptop, an AT keyboard, and a keyboard without a space bar. 23:47:33 I don't :P 23:47:44 Well, I *have* the space bar. . . 23:47:50 Just a few feet away from the keyboard. 23:48:16 X-D 23:48:59 Yay, I now better know what the problem with ndiswrapper is! 23:49:28 (Cool. One of the spelling suggestions for "ndiswrapper" is "handicappers".) 23:55:35 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 2007-08-09: 00:09:24 -!- goban has joined. 00:30:39 -!- goban has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:34:51 -!- goban has joined. 00:36:34 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:52:25 har har! 00:52:32 that map is public record and denying me access to it is punishable by 90 days in jail 00:52:37 according to the colorado revised statutes, title 24, section 72, part 2 00:52:45 i win :) 01:20:22 zzzzzzzzzzzzz 01:20:30 yay! 01:20:31 zzzzzzzzzzzzz 01:26:28 -!- jix__ has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 02:07:04 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 02:07:20 hey 02:08:36 Baz-wha? 02:13:09 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]"). 02:18:47 baz-quux 02:20:04 bsmntbombdood: what map? 02:20:15 ihope: of storm sewers 02:25:33 Here, have a law: if an emergency vehicle is approaching, pull over and stop. 02:26:06 Apparently no exception is made for freeways. 02:26:29 so? 02:29:18 Oh, I was wondering and... apparently I felt like saying that. 02:33:50 i hate how in a torrent with many files, all the files are 50% done instead of half of them all done 02:34:21 s/, all/, often all/ 02:36:36 Seems that if you're on a freeway and there's an emergency vehicle in the thing connecting the two roads, you're supposed to move one lane "apart" from the vehicle if possible. 02:36:52 yes 02:37:14 What does "one lane apart" mean, exactly? 02:37:23 one lane away 02:37:29 With one lane between the vehicles, or one lane over? 02:37:39 what? 02:37:42 That is, not in the same lane? 02:37:50 one lane between 02:37:58 * ihope nods 02:38:05 learning to drive? 02:38:25 Yup. 02:38:45 Pollution-loving wimps :( 02:39:00 That describes most of the US. 02:39:16 Especially our fondness for urban sprawl and a lack of decent public transportation. 02:39:26 i have knowledge, so i'm a pollution-loving wimp? 02:43:47 If you have knowledge and don't use it, you're a hippy. 02:44:19 I guess the government's decided that 120 MPH is the fastest relative we want to have in a head-on collision. 02:44:28 s/relative/relative speed/ 02:44:55 wrong, if you're talking about the federal government 02:45:08 I said just "the government" for a reason :-P 02:45:28 Are there higher speed limits than 55 for two-way traffic elsewhere? 02:45:32 75mph is the fastest speed limit allowed if you want to receive highway funding 02:45:36 Heck, are there higher speed limits here? 02:46:03 Freeways... there's nothing for a while, and then suddenly there's an on-ramp and you find yourself between two cars when there are only two lanes. :-) 02:46:10 that is, a state must have a maximum speed limit <= 75mph to get highway funding 02:46:35 Can states have a speed limit of 75 on a two-way road? 02:47:03 i think states can have whatever speed limits they like 02:47:35 Well, yeah, but if they want highway funding. 02:47:39 "In 1865, the revised Locomotive Act reduced the speed limit to 4 mph in the country and 2 mph in towns." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit 02:48:18 that is of dubious constitutionality, in my opinion 02:57:52 http://www.isbc.com/business/mistakes.cfm 02:58:23 i can has 640k? 03:16:09 -!- ihope_ has joined. 03:16:46 There. Now that everything's upgraded and I have my wireless connection working again, I can actually start work on that Unlambda interpreter. 03:18:52 how are you going to do it? 03:19:21 Haskell, monads... 03:21:30 and the call/cc? 03:22:47 i wonder if you can implement call/cc with tree-rewriting 03:25:23 Continuation monads. 03:25:28 Rather, a continuation monad. 03:25:55 so you're compiling to haskell or what? 03:27:34 Parsing into a Haskell data structure and then running. 03:29:48 write an unlambda to brainfuck compiler in unlambda 03:32:52 Why not a Haskell-to-Unlambda compiler? 03:33:06 because that's too large 03:33:16 Pff. 03:33:34 although simplified haskell to unlambda might be interesting 03:33:36 * ihope_ decides that adding a useful combinator to Unlambda is worth removing its comment functionality 03:34:08 haskell is just too complicated to write a compiler for fun for 03:34:22 Mm, gotta go. 03:34:29 Bye. 03:34:33 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 03:36:34 i have no idea how to compile a functional language to bf 03:38:43 PEBBLE functions. :p 03:40:07 are they first order? 03:40:15 er, first class 03:42:40 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:43:57 No, I mean "functions" as in "they work". 03:44:02 Err. 03:44:04 "it works". 03:45:14 Hahaha 03:45:27 oh 05:29:47 g'night everyone 05:29:59 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:54:44 -!- olsner has joined. 07:16:23 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:41:09 (bsmntbombdood) i hate how in a torrent with many files, all the files are 50% done instead of half of them all done <<< get a good torrent program... 07:41:22 like? 07:41:28 or make one 07:44:01 torrent for one 07:44:18 you have to manually tell it to dl them one by one though 07:44:43 you can assign separate dl speeds for individual files 07:45:19 isn't that windows only? 07:46:40 i have no idea... but perhaps. 07:46:57 i have a feeling there are decent programs for unix as well... 07:47:49 actually, the reason i'm doing my torrenting on this machine is that i can use torrent 07:47:54 bittorrent sucks ass 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:44 -!- olsner has quit. 08:28:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:38:06 Deluge is the equivalent for *nix, bsmntbombdood. 08:38:18 Once I found Deluge, I pretty much abandoned my own torrent client. 08:38:25 (Even though I had most of it done.) 08:38:42 hmm 08:39:06 I'm going to start hacking at Deluge though. First thing I want to do is add stuff from BitTyrant's new BT paper. 08:39:22 what stuff? 08:39:51 They have a new piece obtaining and queueing algorithm to speed up a torrent. 08:43:22 azureus' peer dht is pretty nice 08:53:43 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 09:03:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Success). 09:06:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 10:38:03 night all 10:38:23 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("guess what that button did"). 11:09:56 -!- jix__ has joined. 11:43:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:11:59 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix. 12:32:16 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 12:33:52 !info ololobot 12:34:00 Wrong channel... 12:34:02 hang on. 12:34:13 There. 12:34:22 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has left (?). 12:37:07 :D 14:37:21 -!- wellons has joined. 15:17:55 -!- goban has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:40:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:40:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:44:49 Does anyone know about a brainfuck implementation that can multithread several programs working on the same memory array? 15:46:02 ? 15:46:12 like a boring brainfork? 15:46:25 seveninchbread did something like that 15:53:44 hmm... i see, thanks 15:54:58 i do not know where 15:55:00 you can get it. 15:55:21 (i had to split to multiple lines for obvious reasons) 15:56:19 if sib comes here, you can ask him, though it isn't exactly that hard making it yourselfidy helfity 15:56:21 skdjgf 15:57:21 i wrote something similar yesterday 16:01:49 and, i don't see the reason for splitting to multiple lines... :-( 16:09:27 whut? 16:09:35 can i lick your source? 16:10:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:14:58 you need subversion, use this command: svn checkout https://opensvn.csie.org/wbf2c/trunk wbf2c 16:15:36 i have a website that explains things a bit here: http://www.cse.psu.edu/~wellons/bf/ 16:43:17 !bf_gen oklopol 17:31:57 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:33:52 -!- jix has joined. 17:35:14 -!- cherez has joined. 17:57:12 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:57:26 -!- jix has joined. 18:05:31 -!- Arrogant has joined. 18:14:41 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:15:09 -!- ihope_ has joined. 18:19:45 http://www.piepalace.ca/blog/asperger-test-aq-test/ 18:19:51 36 !! 18:24:34 "When I talk, it isn't always easy for others to get a word in edgeways. " like... it's hard to get to say something when i'm saying something? 18:24:56 i actually cannot translate "edgeways" there... 18:25:38 That's partially because the phrase is "can't get a word in edge-WISE" 18:25:51 i do know. 18:25:58 And it means nobody will shut up for long enough to let you talk :) 18:26:02 i still don't know what it means there :< 18:26:05 ah 18:26:12 so i totally failed what it mean 18:26:13 *means 18:26:19 So when this guy talks, he just babbles on and on and on and nobody else can talk. 18:26:28 so i totally got it right 18:26:33 Yeah. 18:26:47 i just wasn't sure 18:26:51 And it means nobody will shut up for long enough to let you talk :) << Was referring to the normal phrase, not his variation :) 18:26:52 now i am 18:26:59 ah 18:27:29 "I would rather go to the theatre than a museum. " you'd have to pay me a lot to get me to either... 18:29:32 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 18:30:57 I'd rather go to the moon than a theater 18:30:59 hmm... i can remember any phone number easily, for just about as long as i like... then again there's no way for me to remember a birthday... so i prolly get "average" on that just for having a weird memory 18:31:27 well, i can remember any number as long as it doesn't mean anything to me 18:31:43 when it gets a meaning, i remember the meaning 18:31:53 * SimonRC has dinner 18:32:23 SimonRC: you got 36? 18:32:30 i'm a mere 28 :\ 18:32:32 yes 18:32:42 * SimonRC is geekier than oklokok! 18:32:44 * SimonRC has dinner 18:32:44 i have a feeling i'd get a better score if i actually talked to a doctor :P 18:33:01 better == bigger 18:34:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 18:34:58 -!- ihope has joined. 18:44:28 You need javascript for it to work... 18:44:51 44, it says. 18:44:59 Not that I answered all the questions honestly. 18:47:16 oooh, aspies test 18:47:21 * sp3tt tries 18:47:33 I got like 120/140 on one once :( 18:48:48 well, i'm pretty good at getting friends, but people usually think of me as "the weird guy" 18:50:00 i really can't believe any of you is less geek than me 18:50:21 ... 18:50:22 morte 18:50:23 *more 18:50:24 38! 18:50:45 the test must be crooked! 18:52:07 I got it up to 49. 18:53:06 actually, i can easily think of any of those options suiting me 18:53:51 those are general big-picture questions, so i basically just pick a random situation i've been in and answer based on that 18:56:12 "I enjoy doing thing spontaneously." <<< thing is a character in addam's family 18:56:19 it's a hand 18:56:24 does this refer to masturbation? 18:56:43 like... hold on a min, i'll do some quick masturbation 18:59:17 i guess i'd have the same answer were it either 19:00:35 doing thing is a bit different than masturbation 19:01:52 well, i'm deriving it from the fact "masturbation" means "desecrating the hand" 19:03:29 Doing Thing. 19:04:14 "bbl guys, gotta do some thing ->" 19:04:29 "i hope you mean something" 19:04:33 "err... yes, sure" 19:04:45 'something' 19:04:58 i hate how i always fail quoting 19:26:00 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GreorR. 19:32:47 Actually I think it is "The Thing". 19:33:27 The Thing is a movie, Thing is the hand from The Adams Family 19:33:39 ah, ok 19:34:06 the thing is something by King? 19:34:53 no i dont think so 20:17:30 -!- GreorR has changed nick to GregorR. 20:18:42 random idea for some snippit of code: 20:19:03 accepts mouse-written drawings, then using some kind of OCR, converts it into mathematical notation in real time 20:19:30 so you could e.g. draw 231, a line beneath it, then 500 beneath that, it'd convert it correctly, then display a latexified (or whatever) version at the same size, replacing the drawing 20:19:44 once you've drawn the whole thing, it'll be converted to latex + displayed as an image 20:19:53 and, presumably, you could evaluate it or whatever 20:20:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:20:38 ehird`: like maple? 20:20:57 hmm.. i'm not sure if it does that though... i just know it has something like that 20:21:07 prolly something ridiculously simple 20:21:08 well, i'll show a sort-of-example 20:21:15 i write "1 +" using my mouse 20:21:45 within some very short space of time (hopefully <1 second), it'll disappear and be replaced by whatever latex looks like when rendering the equivilent equation, at roughly the same size 20:21:46 have you seen the video where the guy draws a cart on a blackboard then draws a play button and makes it move? 20:21:50 same as i carry on with the expression 20:22:03 and no 20:22:06 a touchpad that looks like a blackboard that was 20:22:08 cool vid 20:22:42 but anyway 20:22:43 you could draw strings and solid objects and make them move realistically in 2d 20:22:48 uh i wan tthat 20:22:52 it'd be pretty nice to be able to, e.g., get a tablet 20:22:56 start up an app 20:23:08 write some mathematical notation, look up at the app and see it in rendered latex form 20:23:09 also, your thing would be fun if you have a touchpad 20:23:15 and be able to evaluate it and stuff 20:23:54 like maybe if you wrote = and left it for a second it would evaluate :) 20:24:20 might be good for code too... 20:24:22 hmm... an ski parser that did that would be fun :P 20:24:33 * SimonRC thinks 20:24:35 i know there's a flash thingie, but you don't draw anything in that 20:24:47 IWBNI you could draw decision trees and tables and turn them into programs 20:25:06 I am sure this has actually been done before, but not, I suspect, with handwriting recognition. 20:25:24 Now there is a nice PhD topic 20:25:24 SimonRC: sounds good 20:25:41 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 20:25:41 SimonRC: but i think mathematical notation lends itself to being written more than, e.g. a decision tree 20:25:53 How about Haskell? 20:25:56 anything mathematical is simplest when you write it 20:25:59 thus.. 20:26:14 however, programming languages and decision trees and stuff - maybe not, they were designed for keyboard entry 20:26:28 maybe lisp. 20:26:40 Have you seen a Haskell paper? 20:26:46 nope 20:27:02 Haskell as programmed in is a mere shadow of the notation that the programmers have in their heads 20:27:22 in papers, the ASCII-art becomes nice math notations 20:28:01 when i program haskell i see haskell code... not mathematical notation 20:28:40 (<- => -> become arrows, | bceomes a proper bar, ++ join together, <+> <*> become symbol-in-diamond, etc) 20:28:56 i don't see that =p 20:29:48 they use a preprocessor called lhs2tex 20:30:11 I know 20:30:43 I feel that that notation is the "real" Haskell, and the programmed format is an approximation to it. 20:31:01 i think haskell is what the haskell report defines it as. 20:31:18 the programmed format may be older. 20:32:18 show me an example of the notation 20:34:09 <.< 20:34:22 heh 20:35:24 a big sample 20:35:26 where it's used lots 20:35:29 so i can see what it looks like 20:36:45 aaah, SimonRC beat me on the aspergers test 20:36:50 i got a 30 20:37:19 aspergers test? 20:37:39 would this be a scientific, based-in-reality test or a quiz test 20:37:46 quiz 20:38:14 link 20:38:44 http://www.piepalace.ca/blog/asperger-test-aq-test/ 20:39:22 it might as well be called a "social ability test" 20:40:00 except for the bits about dates and telephones and obsession 20:41:07 i'll probably do shite on it 20:41:09 and i have no idea why 20:41:25 quiz/test-type things just always give the opposite of what i really am :p 20:42:54 um 20:42:57 you are in denial! 20:42:57 WHERE is the submit button 20:43:07 you fill it in, then you get an answer at the bottom 20:43:11 THERE is none 20:43:15 hm wtf 20:43:17 49/50 20:43:17 it has some javascript fail 20:43:20 which did i miss 20:43:31 ah there 20:43:33 lots of scheme stuff replaces the word 'lambda' with the symbol lambda 20:43:39 i hate that 20:43:43 " Scores over 32 are generally taken to indicate Asperger's Syndrome or high-functioning autism, with more than 34 an "extreme" score." 20:43:45 i scored 35... 20:44:17 well; that fits considering i do have aspergers 20:44:23 the letter lambda looks terrible in a sexp 20:44:38 it only looks good in church's notation 20:45:36 at any rate, "texed" haskell certainly looks pretty 20:45:52 but ascii is not too shabby either 20:46:12 i think i got some of the questions wrong; anyway 20:46:15 yeah, the tex haskell does look nice 20:46:22 i protrayed myself to be a bit more sociable than i am :p 20:47:20 i think the whole point of that test is that it examines your opinion of yourself, rather than what you actually are 20:47:30 for example, the first question "I prefer to do things with others rather than on my own." 20:47:35 that doesn't even mean anything 20:47:39 what kind of "things"? 20:47:54 sex is the only thing i like doing with other people 20:48:14 i took it to mean any personal contact 20:48:52 -!- wellons has quit ("ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"). 20:49:10 i certainly prefer to do foo, bar and baz with others, while qux and quux i will gladly do on my own. 20:50:39 "I am fascinated by numbers." - does this belong in a test on aspergers? 20:50:42 sure 20:50:59 i hate numbers 20:51:18 i love numbers 20:51:19 :p 20:51:23 sure to the first statement 20:51:49 if there's any numbers in it, it's not abstracted enough 20:52:29 helios24 has always been a bit primitive to me 20:53:04 bsmntbombdood: just think of numbers as the skeleton category of Set 20:54:44 it's still a number, whether it's 2 or {{}, {{}}} 20:55:27 wee, i got 26 on the test 20:55:44 barely beating a math contest winner 20:58:28 but of course it's useless without some sort of an indication of possible error size/probability 20:58:50 which i suspect to be around +- 10... 20:59:00 or at least +-5 21:00:59 ± <-- is that a +- sign? 21:01:32 -!- olsner has joined. 21:01:47 SimonRC: yes 21:03:47 irc needs some sort of unicode macro system 21:03:55 \+- transforms into ± or something 21:04:07 ...no 21:04:15 unicode is evil 21:05:09 unicode is not evil 21:05:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 21:05:47 * ehird` finds a joined ++ in unicode so he can say "unicode is ++good" 21:11:04 ⌠ 21:11:07 ⌡ 21:12:12 someone should modify nethack and make it abuse unicode and control characters to hell 21:12:15 i bet you could get it looking really good 21:13:59 & 21:14:24 heh 21:14:30 UNICODE SMILEY ☺ 21:14:41 ☾☽ 21:14:53 ♲ 21:15:42 ooh 21:15:45 what about a unicode befunge 21:15:50 ☝ instead of ^, etc 21:16:58 INTRODUCING THE ‽♯ PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE 21:17:06 Designed to be the first name solely in unicode. 21:17:20 oh jesus 21:17:22 my friend made unicode print quite cool mazes 21:17:44 ...yes, he programmed a maze generator in unicode 21:17:59 is unicode turing complete? 21:18:16 a maze generator *generating* unicode is a different matter entirely 21:20:43 turing complete unicode... that makes my mouth water 21:20:45 that's just crazy 21:20:48 a turing complete CHARACTER SET 21:21:39 that would be rather fun 21:21:53 just add some control characters that can do branching.... oooh... 21:21:59 fun 21:22:18 ;-) 21:23:24 the algorithm for bidirectional rendering of text seems quite intricate though - a few carefully inserted extra rules could perhaps make it turing complete 21:24:13 i would love to see 99 bottles of beer in unicode using loops of some sort 21:24:30 this is probably rather like my theory that HTML by itself is *very nearly* TC 21:25:10 umm 21:25:11 no it isn't 21:25:19 it has nothing that would make it close to tc 21:25:28 it is in every way the archetypical markup language 21:25:36 you can do HTTP redirects (looping) 21:25:50 that doesn't really count 21:25:53 form elements and passed parameters via URLs also offer some possibilities 21:25:58 that's not HTML 21:26:01 that's HTML+HTTP 21:26:07 or HTML+some way to handle passed parameters 21:26:08 psh 21:27:11 javascript ;-) 21:27:52 I had an idea a while back for a network protocol in which the packet format represented a TC language that could be used for writing all kinds of networking utilities, games, file-transfer programs and viruses 21:28:17 sounds nicely esoteric 21:28:19 make a spec 21:28:40 RodgerTheGreat: make timing matter too ;-) 21:28:56 the entire language is one big race condition, hehe 21:29:00 and the fun part was that the system itself centered around being p2p- you'd "set up" a network by firing off a worm that would traverse the network and build routing databases on all the computers 21:29:44 that's neat 21:29:44 how do you stop exploits? 21:29:45 seriously 21:29:46 make it 21:30:02 bsmntbombdood: don't allow the interpreter to access HD or just about any unprotected external data, of course 21:30:11 you can still dos 21:30:22 you can ALWAYS do DoS 21:30:36 you can dos much easier if you're given a turing machine... 21:30:39 and yeah, scripts are sandboxed 21:30:54 RodgerTheGreat: "scripts" - it's just binary data, right? 21:30:55 not a HLL 21:31:04 kinda... 21:31:24 i think it should be low-level simple binary data... more like a protocol :) 21:31:33 make a simple assembler or something 21:31:43 yeah 21:31:45 it resembled Redcode a bit, actually 21:32:02 obviously you want the data actually transmitted as compact as humanly possible 21:32:11 self-modification and spawning new packets was a common practice, and the loopback device becomes really handy 21:32:13 otherwise the latency for something like, say the WWW, would be staggering 21:32:32 unicode could be tc if you added regexes natively and expanded them with a macro system 21:32:51 anyway, i'm gonna eat a food -> 21:35:18 I really love the idea of unicode macros 21:35:34 http://bash.org/?754254 21:35:34 RodgerTheGreat: how many opcodes do you think you could squeeze it down to? 21:35:39 8? 16? 21:35:43 16, surely 21:35:46 i wonder if there's an implementation alreday 21:35:49 16 would be good 21:35:53 yes 21:36:08 you could name them 0-F for obvious reasons :P 21:36:23 though for actually using the assembler maybe you could think of some better mnemonics, hehe 21:36:31 allow asm macros, though, that act just like an opcode 21:36:39 using only 16 opcodes all the time would be teeeedious 21:37:06 why 16? 21:37:14 bsmntbombdood: 4 bits 21:37:29 the more opcodes, the less you need, and it's easier to program 21:37:32 the spec was never finished, but I was also considering a high-level version that could be like "code"@AA.45.17.BB# to send a chunk of data off to the next machine 21:37:44 bsmntbombdood: this is a >network protocol< 21:37:52 compactness is more important than anything 21:38:04 you would have to make everything memory-mapped, and you use more space anyway for the addresses 21:38:19 there's plenty of tricks you could do 21:38:26 * SimonRC reads up... 21:38:45 using a full char would allow for a wide range of opcodes with the added benefit of being able to punch in code in a normal text editor 21:39:23 i'd assume you would use an assembler.. 21:39:26 sure, but it uses more space 21:39:33 and yeah, assembler is a must 21:39:36 otherwise, hex editor 21:39:37 you use less opcodes 21:39:45 how about 5 bits :D 21:39:53 32 opcodes should be enough for everyone! 21:39:58 lament: i was just thinking something like kinda like bnf for the macro system... and have tc regexes inbuilt in unicode format. just out of curiosity is that was you had in mind too? 21:40:04 like like like 21:40:10 1 is also a power of 2 21:40:21 0 bits ;-) 21:40:30 heh 21:40:36 "Your mom is so fat she sat on a binary tree and turned it into a linked list in constant time!" 21:40:44 Technically meaningless, but still funny :-) 21:40:45 oklokok: i was just thinking of something like tex markup... 21:40:47 ihope: lmao 21:40:58 (From SimonRC's link above) 21:41:06 hmm 21:41:15 making a useful machine with 16 opcodes would be a challenge indeed 21:41:18 a fun one, too 21:41:22 oklokok: otherwise it would be too smart, and do stuff when you don't expect it to 21:41:40 i'll have to look up tex markup 21:41:43 (just because you type +-, doesn't mean you always want it turned into a single symbol) 21:42:28 of course it can't be tex markup, because then you won't be able to discuss tex markup :) 21:42:39 MSN simply uses (foo) for its markup 21:42:42 (+-) 21:42:56 obviously that can't work in the context of programming discussions 21:43:09 people have so cute msn nicks 21:43:10 [c=3][c=38][c=27][c=23][c=29][c=46][/c]a[/c]n[/c]s[/c]k[/c]u[/c].krisu, joku teini<<33 21:43:31 oh god the eyes bleed 21:43:33 :P 21:43:39 (the eyes would bleed even more if i had msn plus and could see the colours) 21:43:43 heh 21:44:12 i could see the colors if i put that option on, but i hate colors and i love ascii line noise so that works better for me 21:46:41 * ehird` wonders what's the smallest a single instruction could be cut down to 21:46:48 4 bits for an opcode is reasonable.. 21:47:12 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:47:14 oh gods... http://bash.org/?8873 21:47:37 hello.jpg? 21:47:46 meta-goatse? 21:47:47 www.goatse.fr? 21:47:52 hello.jpg.jpg 21:47:53 .cz 21:47:59 a jpg containing a screenshot of hello.jpg 21:48:05 SimonRC: mirror 21:48:11 hello.(jpg^aleph_0).jpg 21:48:24 ehird`: indeed. The Tornado fighter used 4-bit opcodes 21:48:31 in its control computers 21:48:39 SimonRC: did it use 0-F as mnemonics? :p 21:49:24 ehird`: do you *really* think it had mnemonics? :P 21:50:01 hehehe 21:51:12 hm, opcodes don't need to be able to take immediate values 21:51:13 do they? 21:51:27 if you have a few registers.. 21:51:55 I guess you'd need load, store and some way to tell load and store where to load/store from/to 21:52:07 well yes 21:52:09 but apart from that 21:52:51 OP --> LD addr-to-data,reg; OP reg 21:53:06 but the address is a kind of immediate ;-) 21:53:17 i meant apart from the address :p 21:53:32 then no, you wouldn't need immediates 21:53:37 all i need is LD addr , ST addr and addresses 21:54:49 * ehird` makes decisions for the architecture 21:54:55 i think i'll use a sign bit it's simple 21:57:16 =) 21:57:42 -!- wellons has joined. 21:58:10 -!- Arrogant has joined. 21:59:12 hmm 21:59:13 -0 21:59:14 odd 22:03:22 :s 22:35:50 what are the implications of -0 22:41:39 YOUR MOM 22:41:42 heh 22:41:44 :/ 22:41:45 hmm 22:42:15 * ehird` thinks that he can squeeze a single opcode into 12 bits 22:42:24 err 22:42:26 s/opcode/instruction 22:43:12 no, wait, 8 bits 22:43:35 INS INS INS INS ARG1 ARG1 ARG1 ARG2 ARG2 ARG2 22:43:43 where each argument is a register name 22:43:47 of course, LOAD and STORE would be exceptions 22:44:10 err, what am i talking about 22:44:10 10 bits 22:44:41 maybe 9 bits 22:44:47 INS INS INS ARG1 ARG1 ARG1 ARG2 ARG2 ARG2 22:44:56 then all of the components are balanced 22:45:11 but... 8 opcodes... 22:46:05 ... good enough. 9 bits is insanely small! 22:46:51 8 is better than 9 22:47:11 no, i mean 22:47:12 7 is better than 8 22:47:19 7 is lucky 22:47:19 III111222 = 9 bits 22:47:25 and III gives me 8 opcodes 22:47:25 no, byte alligned is good 22:47:33 but 22:47:35 ok... 22:47:35 8 isn't lucky 22:47:38 so what should i make it? 22:47:50 add a parity bit 22:47:54 I I I 1 1 2 2 (SPECIAL QUANTUM CONTAINING BOTH A BIT OF 1 AND 2) 22:49:07 hmm, having LD and ST instructions longer than others could cause real problems 22:49:09 * ehird` wonders 22:51:11 someone suggest an extremely compact instruction format :p 22:51:52 gzip compressed 22:52:16 ...8 bit opcode, the following bits the operands, the number of which depends on the opcode 22:52:31 wait a minute, i should only need 2 bits for each argument 22:52:36 i mean, 3 registers is enough, right? 22:52:42 and might as well pipe it through gzip 22:52:43 no 22:52:52 you need memory access too 22:53:04 that'd all be done with some special instructions 22:53:07 like 22:53:26 LD REGISTER1 memaddr, MEM REGISTER1 22:53:29 ...some opcodes take 0 bytes of operand, some take 4 22:53:35 and then REGISTER1 would have the value at memaddr or something 22:53:43 and then you'd have MEMSET memaddr 22:53:44 or something. 22:53:45 keep it extensible 22:53:56 i'm going for "frickin' tiny", not "extensible" 22:54:19 being small is stupid if you can't use it 22:55:14 sure 22:55:16 i'm aiming for 22:55:34 1. relatively usable - if you're familiar with computer internals and asm, you should be able to program it with relative ease 22:55:37 2. as tiny as possible 22:56:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:58:13 * ehird` wonders what bit-ness he should make the machine 22:58:14 4-bit? 8-bit? 22:58:30 ..8 bit 22:58:47 question: is nop actually essential? 22:58:54 i mean, i think you could get away without nop most of the time 23:00:24 damnit why is my computer making very high pitched and very short beeps randomly 23:00:32 not "beeeep" 23:00:34 more like "bip!" 23:00:37 you is been hacked 23:01:06 i is not been hacked 23:01:15 hmm 23:01:20 i really don't think NOP is needed 23:01:39 I think NOP is the quintessential non-essential operation :P 23:01:57 sure, but for asm... 23:01:58 *perhaps* useful to fill branch delay slots though 23:02:03 it seems to get an absurd amount of use 23:02:18 one very unneeded thing is ifneq 23:02:25 ifneq X Y Z can just be: 23:03:13 0 ifeq X Y 2 23:03:13 1 goto Z 23:03:13 2 stuff 23:05:21 i think i'll drop NOP 23:05:30 if anyone has a convincing argument for it, tell me 23:05:57 olsner: LD addr-to-data,reg 23:06:05 olsner: how would you put this data in the address? :) 23:06:50 ehird`: let's say addresses 0-200 is code and 200-250 is data... just LD 201,reg1 to load the contents of address 201 into register 1 23:07:10 and ST reg1,201 would put a recalculated value back into memory 23:07:16 ah, right 23:07:17 data sections 23:07:31 (modern assemblers have broken my soul :D) 23:07:46 not really - it could be loading code into registers to modify itself 23:07:48 only 200 bits for code though? lame :P 23:08:19 nah, just let bits 0-31 control the page number :P 23:08:29 good idea :p 23:09:21 i think i only need 2 bits for addresses 23:09:29 i mean, 4 addresses is enough to be comfortable with, right? 23:09:41 olsner: how would you personally define ST? 23:09:52 st reg,addr puts the value in reg in the memory addr? 23:10:23 4 addresses? that's just the same as having 4 registers though :P 23:11:24 err 23:11:26 i meant 4 registers 23:11:33 of course i shall use more for addresses :) 23:11:38 "i think i only need 2 bits for REGISTERS" 23:11:43 4 registers + memory 23:12:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:12:54 th 23:12:55 hmm 23:12:57 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:13:01 i wonder how many bits i should use for addresses 23:13:41 7 23:14:04 77 23:14:05 only 128 places of addressable memory? 23:14:14 maybe just 8 bits. 23:14:35 now i have to decide what size to use for the values stored in memory and registers ;) 23:14:37 *:) 23:15:15 14 bits 23:16:01 12 23:16:48 people always ask for numbers, but then end up ignoring my nice numbers and having something boring like 16 23:16:54 heh 23:17:27 maybe just 8-bit values :) 23:17:33 well since he is refusing our good luck numbers, i suggest we compromise on 13. 23:17:52 maybe 8-bit values + 4 registers + 8-bit addresses isn't enough? 23:19:03 dunno 23:19:05 8-bit values + 4 registers + 8-bit addresses should be enough for anyone. 23:19:20 no seriously :p 23:19:28 do you think it would be enough to implement simple things? 23:19:55 no one is ever really gonna need more than 640k memory 23:20:40 i can't take the sarcasm any longer :( 23:20:56 * oerjan gives ehird` a lollipop. 23:21:09 <___< 23:21:19 * oklokok does /me because it's so cool 23:21:58 ehird`: i actually haven't read the logs so i don't really know what you are making :P 23:22:09 oklokok: i'm aiming for 23:22:09 1. relatively usable - if you're familiar with computer internals and asm, you should be able to program it with relative ease 23:22:09 2. as tiny as possible 23:22:09 i'm guessing cookies 23:22:20 a computer architecture, obviously =p 23:22:49 ah, so making a simulated asm for fun? 23:22:56 or emulated 23:23:20 or copulated 23:24:20 or you could just use brainfuck 23:24:26 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:24:31 you only need 3 bits per opcode 23:25:18 brainfuck breaks rule 1 23:25:19 1. relatively usable - if you're familiar with computer internals and asm, you should be able to program it with relative ease 23:25:31 uh, brainfuck is usable 23:25:49 brainfuck can be coded with relative ease if you learn the basic trixxors 23:25:54 that is not the point 23:26:09 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 23:26:47 brainfuck plus arithmetic operators, 4 bits per operator and it's pretty simple to program in 23:26:47 :) 23:26:51 sigh 23:26:58 i am not looking to reinvent a brainfuck computer 23:27:16 i am looking to invent a very small architechture spec that is quite easy to program in if you know asm 23:27:45 you making like "the asm". 23:28:13 o 23:28:14 no 23:28:20 what the hell does that mean anyway 23:28:23 teh asm 23:28:28 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 23:29:54 Well, you'll want it to be very parallel, I think. 23:30:10 I think Game of Life is a decent platform. 23:30:25 i just want a simple low-powered computer that can still do 99 bottles of beer and some other stuff with at least mildly readable code 23:30:33 Though maybe BBM with quantum extensions would be better. 23:30:55 What, you want the assembly/machine code to be readable? 23:30:57 ihope: well done picking up where me and oerjan left 23:30:59 :P 23:31:10 lots of asm code is readable 23:31:16 if you know some asm for some platform, that is 23:32:43 Do you know what GCC does to multiply by 10? 23:32:50 ok, the only logic stuff i need is NOT, OR, AND, XOR i think 23:32:54 ihope: x86 asm is not readable 23:33:00 Oh. 23:33:03 gcc-generated asm is not readable anyway 23:33:22 Why do you want the assembly code to be readable? 23:33:34 yeah, who likes readability 23:33:48 Why not use a compiler from a high-level language instead? 23:33:57 you really don't get the point of this 23:34:04 No, I don't. 23:34:05 i mean readable as in not bloody brainfuck or unlambda! 23:34:11 i don't want some beautiful asm code 23:34:13 or anything 23:34:20 :P 23:34:36 ehird`: not trying to make you mad, just tired. 23:35:06 -!- olsner has quit. 23:35:10 What's wrong with BF and Unlambda, apart from the slowness? 23:35:22 they're hell to program in 23:35:24 absolute hell 23:35:40 You want to program in the assembly language? 23:35:41 gtfo of my #esoteric 23:35:44 * ehird` has store, load, move, xor, and, or, not ... hmm .. what next 23:35:49 bsmntbombdood: this is still esoteric :) 23:35:53 esoteric != hell to program in 23:36:00 ihope: At least 99bob, sure. 23:36:13 I see. 23:38:24 So you want readable and small. 23:39:36 Typed lambda calculus with data declarations/constructors? 23:39:55 I guess you also want it to look like an assembly language. 23:42:44 Wait, what do you mean by "small"? 23:43:11 Rather, what do you want that I stated as "small"? :-P 23:43:55 http://pastie.caboo.se/86457 here's my instruction set design 23:44:00 i think i might have screwed a part up 23:44:02 maybe it's not TC 23:44:49 Doesn't look infinite memory-y. 23:45:16 hmm 23:45:20 i'll rectify it tomorrow 23:45:27 Looks fine apart from that. 23:45:41 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric | NOTE TO EHIRD DO NOT REMOVE: \instructionset. 23:45:47 i shall continue it tomorrow 23:45:51 Can't you send yourself a memo? 23:46:06 Won't clutter up our topic that way. 23:46:07 sure, put your shit in the topic... 23:46:11 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:49:16 bsmntbombdood: how often is bsmnt_bot reset? 23:49:31 what do you mean? 23:49:44 How often does it quit? 23:49:52 whenever i want it to 23:50:03 * ihope shrugs 23:50:56 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Or we do") 23:50:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:50:57 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit ("Or we do"). 23:51:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:51:10 Indeed. 23:52:49 -!- ihope has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric | NOTE TO EHIRD DO NOT REMOVE: \instructionset. 23:52:53 Er, oops. 23:53:15 At least that didn't do anything as far as I can tell :-) 2007-08-10: 00:18:02 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:30:08 :t properFraction 00:38:25 man, i like haskell, but it tries pretty hard to make me hate it 00:40:27 heh 00:43:09 i want to write my program, not implement basic math functions :( 00:44:46 Haskell's making you implement basic math functions? 00:44:51 i think modding with doubles is a somewhat imprecise operation 00:49:46 it won't get any more precise from me implementing it 00:50:49 You could import it from a C thing. 00:51:09 And then eventually, somebody could extend GHC with it... 00:52:01 yes, exactly, like i said, i'd rather just write foo % bar like i would in Python. 00:54:44 * ihope nods 00:55:14 ~exec sys.stdout([pi % e, pi - e]) 00:55:15 NameError: name 'pi' is not defined 00:55:36 Um... 00:57:58 math.pi 00:58:20 ~exec sys.stdout([math.pi % e, math.pi - e]) 00:58:21 NameError: name 'e' is not defined 00:58:24 ~exec sys.stdout([math.pi % math.exp(1), math.pi - math.exp(1)) 00:58:25 SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing 00:58:31 ~exec sys.stdout([math.pi % math.exp(1), math.pi - math.exp(1]) 00:58:40 SyntaxError: invalid syntax 00:59:57 ... 01:00:29 ~exec sys.stdout((math.pi % math.e, math.pi - math.e)) 01:00:29 (0.42331082513074803, 0.42331082513074803) 01:01:06 lament: are you making fun of the world? 01:01:13 why did i say that? 01:01:31 gotta go -.> 01:02:13 ~exec sys.stdout(math.exp(math.pi)-math.pi) 01:02:13 19.9990999792 01:02:25 aaaw, your floating point arithmetic is bugged 01:02:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:08:41 like if i'm face to face with someone, which face is mine? 01:08:49 the latter or the former? 01:10:07 (|the latter> + |the former>)/sqrt(2) 01:10:27 See? I told you WHICH quantum superposition it is. 01:11:17 can i... check the value? 01:11:38 or is it like uncheckalbbebvevr 01:11:44 Sure. 01:12:00 i need a transform of some sort or? 01:12:04 But it's different every time you say "face to face". 01:12:13 hmm... true 01:12:33 the face is both yours and not yours at the same time 01:12:35 Oh, actually, the + is a - if you're female. 01:12:38 SCHRDINGER'S FACE 01:12:43 sp3tt: exactly what I just said. 01:12:51 Apart from the Schroedinger. 01:13:02 but I can type it with the umlaut! 01:13:05 the word "face" and the word "phase" are originally the same, i think 01:14:28 the latter coming from the "face" of the moon 01:14:51 you just thought that up? 01:14:59 Who what? 01:15:05 i vaguely recall it 01:15:25 i wish i vaguely recalled every bit of information that exists 01:15:30 like you do. 01:15:42 I vaguely recall that P = NP. 01:15:51 ihope: your mum... 01:15:52 I don't remember the details. 01:16:01 I vaguely recall that the cat is dead. 01:16:19 I vaguely recall that that proton is blue right now. 01:16:31 No, it's ultraviolt 01:16:50 That's not a color. 01:16:59 ultraviolent 01:17:07 THE PROTON DECAPITATES YOU 01:17:07 The only colors are red, green and blue. 01:17:17 Unless you count antired, antigreen and antiblue. 01:17:25 that's only one colorspace 01:17:26 Those are the colors of antiprotons, among other things. 01:17:39 hmm... should i sleep in my armchair or my bed 01:18:01 sleep is for the WEAK 01:18:29 Sleep gives you special powers. 01:18:37 i can either sleep or stay awake doing nothing. 01:18:48 oklopol: go for the special powers. 01:19:05 hmm... does sound intriguing 01:19:08 eh, irc? 01:19:15 I need food 01:19:17 brb 01:19:29 i was, though, actually requesting where i should be doing my sleep 01:19:35 Special powers like the ability to avoid sleepiness and the ability to not be bored. 01:19:43 And the ability to shoot people ethically and legally. 01:19:50 sp3tt: irc is pretty much nothing 01:20:34 Staying awake doing nothing, however, gives one the ability to utilize paper and computers. 01:20:35 boredom doesn't exist 01:20:50 really? 01:20:51 how? 01:21:08 Apart from the fact that you have to do something while doing nothing in order to do that. 01:21:23 Minor setback. 01:21:38 doing nothing = doing nothing productive 01:21:53 doing nothing i can "show for my day" 01:22:09 Well, paper and computers can be non-productive. 01:22:14 really? 01:22:16 hm, my vague recollection is still a bit vague, the terms are apparently from latin and greek respectively, but had the same meaning so i _still_ think they were related 01:22:19 how exactly? 01:23:12 oerjan: where are there vague articles located that you've been memorizing your whole life, btw? 01:23:19 i might enjoy reading them 01:23:39 i shoud start writing vague articles 01:23:49 *should 01:24:27 unless there actually exist ones 01:24:30 i'd read them all. 01:27:48 i might endoy flying to istambul or something 01:27:54 i might get cold though 01:28:09 guess that would depend on how high i'd fly 01:28:21 now "sleep" -> 01:30:03 ihope: you forgot to tell me how to do something unproductive with the computer 01:30:06 (aside irc) 01:30:21 Study... er, wait. 01:30:25 Play games! 01:30:40 hmm 01:30:47 Or study pointless things! 01:30:54 Things that have been proven pointless! 01:31:00 anything i get better at is productive. 01:31:44 Not if they don't produce! 01:31:53 hmm... well, okay, since that is actually quite exactly the definition i use, it's pretty easy coming up with non productive stuff 01:31:56 Study something that mathematicians already know everything about! 01:32:10 improving my brain is productive. 01:32:32 since it's pretty much all that exists from my point of view. 01:34:19 I guess you'll have to do something destructive, then. 01:34:41 You can fail to revert vandalism on a wiki! 01:35:00 i could, in theory, just like throw dice all night... the only problem is i'd remember that and list it as the cool feat "throwing dice for 10 hours in a row" 01:37:43 Python fits my brain :) 01:37:52 And with that, I go to do me daily Japanese work. 01:39:42 and i go to sleep 01:39:46 reaaaally -> 01:44:52 * sp3tt goes to sleep 02:07:00 -!- meatmanek has left (?). 02:18:32 Now, are there any optimizing Unlambda compilers/interpreters out there? >:-) 02:27:14 there is a guy in #haskell writing a compiler, i don't know how optimised it will be 02:28:40 also mandelson's interpreter is supposedly much faster than others, although i (vaguely :) ) recall it has some incompatibilities 02:30:09 *is = was, hard to say if it still is fastest when the unlambda homepage hasn't been updated in years 02:42:51 Incompatibilities... 02:43:23 i again vaguely recall the d function didn't quite follow the spec, or something like that 02:43:58 possibly he memoized it, or something like that 02:44:34 anyway some program broke when i tested it (my interpreter? i don't recall) 02:59:15 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:59:45 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:00:18 -!- GregorR has joined. 03:12:27 -!- cherez has joined. 03:14:36 THE CHALLENGE: Create a joke with the punchline "Baroque Obama" 03:15:03 YOUR MOM is BAROQUE OBAMA. 03:18:05 8-O 03:18:09 It's TRUE 03:31:10 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:11:41 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 04:11:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:26:02 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:38:19 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:54:18 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:57:19 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:57:33 -!- jix has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:37 -!- olsner has joined. 08:09:50 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 08:46:29 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 10:22:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 10:26:04 night all 10:26:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Remember kids, be careful with explosives, they might be interesting!"). 10:28:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:28:33 My friend did something for me! 10:28:39 a BF loader that fits in a bootsector! 10:28:57 interperter is NASM 155 bytes (binary compiled) 10:29:09 whole thing 194 bytes 10:29:31 510 - 194 = approx. space for BF code :) 10:29:39 cool? 10:29:50 AWESOME! 10:30:09 I don't know enough about bootcodes, but I wanna read the ASM :) 10:30:34 ok 10:30:36 wait 10:30:48 stdin - keyboard 10:30:55 BF code is compiled in the binary :D 10:31:15 :) 10:31:28 my friend did it 10:31:29 not me 10:31:30 but wait 10:31:36 i'll try to compile it and test 1st 10:33:07 -!- Darktemplar has joined. 10:33:22 it's my polish friend 10:33:22 he did it 10:33:25 CONGRATS! 10:33:35 heh 10:34:11 Waiting for JumpF**k, keyboard BF code typing and RAW BF store (to make max size up to 1,4MB) 10:34:20 i'd like to first see the first two 10:34:25 then a option to add the third :) 10:35:00 okay 10:35:03 i'll put the code 10:36:10 if I make a BF-CommandLineInterface that's gonna be dead :) 10:36:24 why? 10:36:57 I don't think I'd fit it in bootloader still 10:37:05 perhaps I can fit the CLI, but FS support... 10:37:11 it's unneeded 10:37:17 you'll make FS support (RAW) 10:37:17 okay.. 10:37:22 Heya. 10:37:23 then you will put rest of code in RAW 10:37:27 Awesome stuffs my friend. 10:37:32 AND the BF codefiles in raw 10:37:38 sure... 10:37:43 ok 10:37:50 sending the code with ,[.,] and binaries 10:37:52 but first testing 10:38:07 I haven't tested it with multiple loops 10:38:19 but frequent stack operating around'em should do 10:38:26 i'll test 10:38:48 10:39:06 okay 10:39:13 then try and do JumpF**k ok? 10:39:31 if you want 10:40:57 You can do what Forth does, blocks for the FS. 10:42:08 you mean like filename:SECTOR3-6? 10:42:38 Each block is a fixed size. 10:43:11 So block 21 is just data at address (21 * block-size) + block-offset. 10:44:16 But look, we want to sometimes store multiple files - oh wait, this can be done with SysLinux+MemDisk+GZip combo :) 10:44:41 you mean RAW is no fun ? 10:44:51 multiple files in RAW is perfectly OK 10:45:36 Well, I guess. 10:45:52 512 bytes per block 10:46:03 oh 10:46:11 LBA->CHS is about 25-30 bytes 10:46:24 we need also like a file: 10:46:41 blah 10:46:47 that stores filename you want (8.0 :D) and amount of blocks it takes 10:46:58 or 5.0 for that matter 10:46:59 it is easier for me to parse hex than dec 10:47:04 so use hex 10:50:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 10:50:31 hi! 10:50:41 My friend did a BF reader in a bootsector! 10:50:49 with 300-400 bytes left for code 10:50:51 he is here 10:50:53 Darktemplar. 10:51:19 ummm so what 10:51:26 of course you can fit BF into a bootsector 10:51:29 BF is friggin tiny 10:51:40 but he will add many stuff to it 10:51:45 then it isn't BF any more 10:51:48 and it's smaller than AmigaOS interperter 10:51:54 he will add not stuff to language 10:51:54 many stuff 10:51:59 like a CLI 10:52:01 :D 10:52:03 (except JumpF**k of course :D) 10:52:12 and a command right? 10:52:15 to read from files 10:52:23 @(filename.txt) i mean 10:52:23 but kinda debug-like one 10:52:48 why is jumpfuck "of course"? 10:52:53 i wrote jumpfuck mainly for compiler writers 10:52:59 ... oh. But i wi--- 10:53:03 YOU WROTE IT? 10:53:16 this jump fuck? http://esolangs.org/wiki/JumpFuck 10:53:18 if so, yes 10:53:21 yes 10:53:45 i wanted to add just the commands 10:53:48 the 2 jump commands 10:53:49 adding jumpfuck shouldn't be hard.. 10:53:59 and one my command (if you implement RAW, it shouldn't be hard) 10:54:06 another segment register, like FS... yet limiting that stuff to run on 286+ 10:54:24 how do people suggest i make this TC? http://pastie.caboo.se/86457 i was thinking maybe a "computed ld/st" which takes its address from a register as well 10:54:40 but i'm not sure which opcodes i'd remove to do it 10:55:11 and my command... @, Read (actual cell) char from (cell after actual) block to (cell before actual) 10:55:52 ehird, ur making a binary EL? 10:55:58 or it may use @(200|3) that will read 200th char from 3rd block (512 bytes/block right?) and save it to actual cell :) 10:56:03 it's better for me 10:56:12 Darktemplar: binary what? 10:56:18 esoteric language 10:56:22 Darktemplar: yes. that's a spec for a computer architechture 10:56:35 but it isn't really meant to be mainly esoteric 10:56:36 but look, ehird, you'll have first JumpF**k implementation :D 10:56:37 more an experiment 10:56:41 asiekierka: true :) 10:57:04 i'm just trying to get an assembly language with the smallest instructions i can while still being relatively easy to use 10:57:10 If you'll make the new architecture, try and port Darktemplar's bootloader to it 10:57:24 ehird->make it objective-enforcing :D 10:57:44 something like a weird minimized Java 10:57:50 no way 10:57:56 why 10:58:03 and ehird`: Do you have any command ideas? 10:58:04 this is meant to be machine code that could feasably be put on a machine 10:58:13 except for a really simple computer where size of code is everythign :) 10:58:18 asiekierka: nope 10:58:18 since we have 3 more commands to BF, making it total of 11 commands 10:58:20 too bad 10:58:27 maybe BF machine's IO commands? 10:58:30 then you could do graphics :p 10:58:56 cool 10:59:07 1111 -> couldn't you make it SwitchToWeirdMode :? 10:59:19 Darktemplar: you need nop :) 10:59:26 what is weird mode anyway 10:59:43 theory... 10:59:46 or a joke 11:00:09 you could (but not need to) make a command like S(125) that will set current cell to 125 11:00:17 will save up to 20 lines! 11:00:23 i recommend it 11:00:36 or make it Add Number 11:00:41 like ! - read from port no. current cell and save it in n+1 cell 11:00:42 so it adds 125 to current cell 11:00:52 or direct memory access :D 11:00:58 OH! You may add it 11:01:13 yeah. Let's come up with another EL 11:01:31 it will be called "EsoOoS" 11:01:35 like ADD = CreateCommand("Add.Command","+",NOTPRIVILENGED); 11:01:40 nope 11:01:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:01:48 i'll make list of added commands 11:01:54 but that would be kinda freaky 11:01:56 ok 11:02:05 but asie, decide which cell size to use 11:02:06 -!- sekhmet has joined. 11:02:12 it's no problem for me to switch to words 11:02:26 gwar, why are there no decent binary editors 11:02:36 because you can't sell them 11:02:43 :p 11:03:15 hmm found one 11:03:19 OK. Got to go. Some work awaits.. 11:03:20 bye 11:03:21 -!- Darktemplar has left (?). 11:06:40 hehe, tiny infinite loop: 11:06:45 "à." 11:06:49 without quotes 11:06:55 why? 11:06:59 what does 11:07:01 of course that's just the machine code i need headers 11:07:11 asiekierka: that is "111000000000" 11:07:25 look at the spec i posted to see why that loops 11:08:08 i see 11:08:16 1110 CCCCCCC Jump to C. 11:08:31 and at position 00000000, we have "111000000000" 11:08:40 which jumps to 00000000... 11:09:21 in reality, the shortest infinite loop will be a bit longer 11:09:33 you have to specify how long the code is (so the machine knows where the data section starts) 11:09:38 and that takes 32 bits 11:09:43 i might reduce it to 16. 11:10:56 i may send you the code 11:11:04 to Darktemplar's interpreter 11:11:08 if you want 11:12:12 so the shortest infinite loop is that code i posted 11:12:17 but the shortest infinite loop wrapped in a binary 11:12:32 is "...à." 11:12:56 aka "00000000000000000000000000001100111000000000" 11:13:24 aah, damnit my instruction set has no "halt" 11:13:53 somebody tell me what insutrctions they don't think would get much use in http://pastie.caboo.se/86457 :p 11:15:15 1111 :D 11:16:15 have you EVER coded low-level asm? 11:16:21 do you seriously think NOP is useless? 11:17:32 no 11:17:38 and maybe 11:17:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOP 11:17:56 there are quite a few examples of good use there 11:22:25 I guess for NOP you could do 11:22:35 AD A B 11:22:37 err 11:22:44 wait you couldn't do that 11:22:46 MV A A then 11:22:58 so 1111 is halt... 11:24:35 ok here's the newest spec: http://pastie.caboo.se/86570 11:24:46 if someone comes up with a nice way to make it TC :) 11:31:41 ehird`: Could you help me? 11:31:46 the Darktemplar code fails 11:31:48 oh wait 11:37:17 I'll go on and learn ASM later 11:40:10 how much chuck would a chuck wood wood if a chuck wood could wood chuck? 11:43:39 mrning 11:45:58 morning 11:48:51 got any ideas for how i can make http://pastie.caboo.se/86570 turing complete? :) 11:51:24 wait 11:52:56 make 1st bit of each memory slot be a swith that expands that memory slot to be as bit as the whole memory 11:53:02 and... there. 11:53:15 you have to have some infinity there 11:54:31 how to make a newline in low-level ASM (i'm learning it) 11:54:34 without a OS 11:54:40 i.e. booted from a bootsecotr 11:54:43 bootsector* 11:55:31 is it 13 and 10? 11:55:31 or 10? 11:55:33 or what? 11:56:23 ehird`! 11:56:27 oklokok! 11:56:28 do you know? 11:57:07 hmm 11:57:32 0D0A in windows, 0A in unix, 0D in mac iirc 11:57:34 i have no idea. 11:57:46 ???? in BIOS 11:57:54 i have no idea. 11:57:55 :P 11:59:21 i think 0D0A 11:59:23 but not sure 12:00:26 you can put that to be sure 12:00:49 not now 12:01:07 wait 12:01:13 i'll probably be back in 10-15 mins 12:01:25 iback 12:01:29 i'm back 12:01:34 anyway 12:01:36 all i really need 12:01:41 is some way to access memory relative to some other location 12:01:48 right now you can only specify an absolute 12:02:05 however i need to keep the instruction set at its current size 12:02:19 gotta go 12:02:31 -!- asiekierka has quit. 12:03:15 just make a relative jump 12:03:22 that'd make it tc as well 12:03:38 i just like nestable memory slots better : 12:03:40 :P 12:05:32 how would a relative jump make it tc 12:05:38 you still can't access infinite memory 12:05:58 i mean 12:06:05 a relative jump in memory 12:06:14 so that memory slot 0000 moves 12:06:17 back and forth 12:06:26 tc via trivial isomorphism to bf 12:06:47 oh 12:06:54 well it's not really typical then 12:07:00 right now it looks quite a lot like some other simple machine codes 12:07:05 that would make it.. less so 12:07:23 you can also do like 0000-7FFF always program spesific, and 8000-ffff move if relative jump used 12:07:42 and 8000-FFFF would have "infinite" memory for each program 12:07:50 or smth 12:08:17 millions of ways to do ittidy 12:08:25 i mean 12:08:32 i want it something like most machine codes 12:08:36 they don't use weird hacks like that 12:08:42 they're just... tc in a normal way 12:09:05 okay, then you will have to leave out the "every memory slot is n bits and every address is m bits" attitude. 12:09:32 it will then *look* more like asm in instruction descriptions, but it will inherently be less asm 12:09:48 have you checked an "asm" for a highlevel language? 12:09:57 like python bytecode or jvm 12:09:57 inherently less asm = :( 12:10:02 and yes 12:10:10 besides 12:10:16 i need that attitude 12:10:24 otherwise code can't be portable across amount of memory 12:10:26 i haven't looked at jvm tbh, but that isn't actually that high-level of course 12:10:30 huh 12:10:33 whut 12:10:38 yeah 12:10:42 so... my idea. 12:10:47 mem jump 12:10:53 hmm 12:11:05 you could have a way to jump to next "page" 12:11:09 and back again 12:11:15 but i have never seen machine code with "mem jump" 12:11:16 :) 12:11:17 that'd make it tc as well, but it'd be cleaner 12:11:23 how DOES most machine code do it anyway? 12:11:31 to handle calculated memory positions? 12:11:32 do... what? 12:11:35 instead of just immediate values? 12:11:43 it's called addition 12:11:53 sure 12:11:57 do they have a computed store or something 12:11:58 like 12:12:23 cld r1 r2 - "access the memory whose position is in r1 and store it in r2" 12:12:42 as well as ld r1 addr - "access the memory at addr and store it in r1"? 12:12:48 or something like that? 12:13:41 usually asm has something like thta 12:13:43 *hathtat 12:13:56 i see, that makes sense 12:14:02 you have that too 12:14:05 no i do not 12:14:10 I have ld, but not cld 12:14:19 cld would make it turing complete 12:14:27 but i can't add any instructions 12:14:30 i've reached my limit 12:14:32 then i have misunderstood you... wait a bit 12:14:38 so i need to remove 2 instructions that won't be used much 12:14:40 pick two? :) 12:15:34 nop can be hacked in using the others... same goes for many of the calculations, but it might be ugly if you'd just have a random subset of the logicals 12:15:53 (ehird`) cld r1 r2 - "access the memory whose position is in r1 and store it in r2" 12:15:57 why does this make it tc? 12:16:04 and how is that different from ld? 12:16:38 "access the memory whose position is in r1" != "access the memory at addr" ? 12:18:32 brb 12:19:07 and 12:19:10 it makes it turing complete because 12:19:13 r1 is a register 12:19:33 Ah, wait, I'm going to tweak the code a bit 12:19:59 are registers infinite? 12:20:03 bignumzz 12:20:55 ok: 12:20:56 http://pastie.caboo.se/86579 12:20:57 i'm sorry, but i don't see the tucrity. 12:21:13 everything but the first two AAAAAAAAs are register ids 12:21:26 that pastie hates me a lot 12:21:37 now, if i had a version of the first two instructions which instead of the immediate AAAAAAAA took a register AAA, you could do computed memory access 12:21:45 only problem is, i'm out of instructions... 12:21:55 so what two instructions can i get rid of without too much effect? 12:24:28 whell, s/xor and or not/nand nor ;) 12:24:57 i don't want to get rid of not 12:25:07 or xor 12:25:12 or or, or and 12:25:20 those are pretty much essential for non-hellish programming 12:27:50 memory management, arithmetic, binary logic, conditional jump, unconditional jump, halt... you pretty much need those if you don't want to do anything far-fetched 12:28:04 exactly 12:28:09 but i need two mor memory management instructions 12:28:34 hmm, can you please try to explain how those are different from the ones you have now? 12:29:02 honestly i have no idea how you are having trouble with it 12:29:04 http://pastie.caboo.se/86579 12:29:10 0000 AAAAAAAA BBB and 0001 AAAAAAAA BBB 12:29:19 AAAAAAAA is an immediate value. in the binary file 12:29:21 HOWEVER 12:29:34 EVERY other single argument for EVERY instruction apart from those two AAAAAAAAs, is a register ID 12:29:39 ah well, you can just replace those 12:29:46 SO 12:29:47 I need 12:29:52 a computed st/load 12:30:00 with AAA BBB arguments, which take the address from the register 12:30:01 you see? 12:30:17 HOWEVER i can't just replace those two 12:30:18 yes yes 12:30:25 as they supply the >only way to get values from memory< 12:30:33 really? 12:30:34 since, of course, you have to get something into the registers in the first place 12:30:36 before you can add to them 12:30:38 to use them as addresses 12:30:41 think about it 12:30:49 if everything is indirect to register values, and every register starts at zero 12:30:52 how do you get a value into a register? 12:31:07 so, i need those normal ST/LD 12:31:09 ah ture, but i'd prefer a way to set a value to a register over those .P 12:31:10 :P 12:31:12 but i also, for turing completeness, need a computed ST/LD 12:31:19 so, i need to replace two instructions 12:31:47 but i can tell you that will not make it tc 12:32:43 it >will< 12:32:54 well, maybe not completely TC 12:33:01 because of the size of the values 12:33:03 BUT 12:33:12 "turing complete" for all practical purposes 12:33:21 oh, if that's all you want, then it already is tc 12:33:24 as in you can write real useful programs in it 12:33:25 and no 12:33:34 except for that stuff you haven't gotten in yet 12:33:37 because accessing relative memory positions and other pointer arithmetic is pretty much mandatory 12:34:02 Hmm - what is the bitshifts in most programming languages? Arithmetic shift or logic shift 12:34:14 i do know that, but as i said, you can just replace those first two with cld and ld and have a way to set a register to a valua 12:34:16 *value 12:34:27 what do you mean? 12:34:35 what do you mean what do i mean 12:34:49 arithmetic shift == takes sign into account 12:34:49 ? 12:35:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_shift 12:35:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_shift 12:35:18 you usually have two shifts in an asm, since asms are rarely typed 12:35:19 hmm 12:35:23 i'll check those out... 12:35:28 ok, well which one should i implement ;) 12:35:54 aha 12:35:59 i don't actually need bit shifts! 12:36:06 why? 12:36:10 >> N == / (2 ** N) 12:36:20 << N == * (2 ** N) 12:36:36 ...orly 12:36:40 yarly 12:36:45 and i have the irb session logs to prove it! 12:37:33 that is kinda given 12:37:56 that is a way to get a round the need for two different shifts, yes. 12:38:12 if you have multiplication always be signed 12:38:28 usually, you also have two multiplication instructions & division instructions 12:38:35 for signed / unsigned 12:38:53 everything is unsigned in this 12:38:55 so you may want to have everything just unsigned and let ppl get around that on their own 12:38:57 yes 12:39:08 hmm 12:39:14 that was my way to say you should naturally have logical shifts 12:39:16 i don't have an exponential oprator though 12:39:22 ...orly 12:39:29 so the 2 ** N bit might be... annoying to do 12:39:46 that really isn't the easiest way to use one of those operators to emulate another... 12:40:10 i guess though that people would just work out 2 ** N beforehand 12:41:52 >> and << are effectively quick 2**n div/mul... so it's pretty obvious they aren't exactly *needed* 12:42:12 *quick div/mul by 2**n 12:43:18 ok i've got a new spec 12:43:24 i'll just put it up now 12:43:59 http://pastie.caboo.se/86585 12:44:12 waitaminute 12:44:18 the first integer doesn't have to be 32-bit... 12:44:21 addresses only go up to 8 bits 12:44:35 wait... that means code will have to be hideously small 12:45:06 :s 255 bits max 12:45:09 err, wait, no 12:45:25 ~65536 bits max :p 12:45:29 that's rather less worrying, hehe 12:47:11 http://pastie.caboo.se/86585 there we go 12:47:26 a turing complete, slightly usable machine architechture 12:47:37 with tiny, tiny, tiny instruction size 12:48:05 now i'll design an asm spec for it! 12:49:02 speccidy spaccidy 12:50:32 of course it doesn't have IO... 12:50:37 what do you think i should do to rectify that? 12:50:42 replace two more instructions? :S 12:51:02 you could do the INT instrcution 12:51:05 *instrcution 12:51:07 *instruction 12:51:16 interrupts are evul 12:51:36 well yes, but they're nice if you want small instruction size 12:51:46 though... might be a bit cheatish 12:52:31 yes 12:52:38 i think i'll find two more instructions i can remove 12:52:54 and add in and out, both taking AAA BBB 12:53:09 well, arithmetic is used a lot more than binary stuff, and the jump/memory stuff has to be there for it to be an actual programming language 12:53:15 A is the register which contains the port, B is the register which contains what to send 12:53:21 and i'll define some standard ports 12:53:25 and 12:53:26 so... i'd say NAND! :P 12:53:28 in will take 12:53:33 AAA BBB 12:53:36 actually 12:53:38 in will just take AAA 12:53:47 A contains the port, A gets replaced with the read value 12:53:56 And, um, I don't have NAND. 12:54:02 read the spec :) 12:54:38 or you could just have 4 ports and have the first bit indicate whether it's an output or an input port 12:54:42 hmm... might be a bit ugly 12:54:44 ah 12:54:54 sorry, you're using the register value as the port of course 12:55:02 yeah that's just a sneaky way to add another instructiosn :p 12:55:06 so you'd still have like a million ports 12:55:12 no 12:55:14 values are 8 bits 12:55:17 256 ports :) 12:55:25 ehird`: i meant i'd say "do the nand" 12:55:29 do the do the nand 12:55:35 whut 12:55:42 i mean 12:55:49 s/xor and or not/nand 12:55:55 that makes no sense 12:55:57 do you mean 12:55:59 get rid of not and and 12:56:03 and replace them with nand? 12:56:06 yes 12:56:10 then not is nand a a? 12:56:12 and also remove or and xor 12:56:16 no 12:56:19 i don't like those 12:56:24 this is meant to be relatively easy 12:56:31 removing all those logic operations just makes it a turing tarpit 12:56:38 yeah... but you don't need binary stuff for most things 12:56:48 its meant to be a turing tarpit in internals, but externally it should be just about normal :) 12:58:13 but, glargh 12:58:16 there appears to be nothing i can remove 12:58:24 16 instructions are not enough :( 12:58:50 you can remove the first two and add a "set" 12:58:59 ? 12:58:59 and you have one spot open 12:59:03 i don't get it 12:59:12 set REG VALVALUE 12:59:26 no 12:59:29 VALUE = bad 12:59:32 ADDRESS = good 13:00:21 if you can set register values, you can do stuff like incrementation without having a memory cell that has the number "1" in it... 13:00:38 now you'd have to have a memory slot where you have the number "1" to be able to increment 13:00:52 yeah 13:00:53 that's simpler 13:00:57 so i like my way 13:01:11 so... "set" would make the first two unnecessary, make a lot of calculation easier and also make it more pure 13:01:28 because now you have really duplicate instructions 13:02:05 the first two and the ones where memory location is looked up from a register are pretty much the same, the first ones are just the unpure version of the latter 13:02:36 (purity == the nice INSTRUCTION AAA BBB pattern) 13:02:37 okay i guess 13:02:45 (then SET would be the only exception) 13:03:06 i'm feeling foodneedish 13:03:21 hmm 13:03:23 i don't like your idea 13:03:28 oh 13:03:28 because it makes setting memory locations harder 13:03:29 why ? 13:03:32 oh 13:03:35 you need a SET and then a STORE 13:03:39 well 13:03:41 you need: 13:03:43 SET, CSTORE 13:03:45 instead of just 13:03:46 STORE 13:04:21 haha 13:04:28 what :( 13:04:43 then why not make another set of arithmetic instrcutions as well that take memory slots as params? 13:05:01 well because i'm keeping it at 16 instructions :p 13:05:02 so you don't have to LOAD ADD STORE, but just ADD 13:05:13 i'm just saying my way is superior! 13:05:17 super ber 13:05:18 okay, fine 13:05:23 :P 13:05:43 i'm really gonna go eat now 13:05:47 hf with your asm 13:06:00 i wish i was doing something... doing stuff is so much fun :< 13:06:04 but i ain't 13:06:09 okay: 13:06:13 because i'm reading swedish vicabulary. 13:06:14 http://pastie.caboo.se/86585 13:06:16 *vocabulary 13:06:19 i need to free up one more instruction 13:07:17 hmm 13:07:46 usually you *have* a condition for a jump and any 1100 AAA AAA CCC equals 1101 CCC 13:07:51 if you see what i mean 13:08:21 (two reasons to remove 1101 that way) 13:08:27 s/way/was 13:08:27 ok 13:08:37 also 1111 == nop? 13:08:47 or is that like implicit? 13:08:59 1111 is where i'm going to put the last added instruction 13:09:02 so "jump" is normally just asm sugar? 13:09:22 hmm... x86 has like 15 jumps... 13:09:35 i'm just thinking that, jumps are really really common 13:09:42 and, if it has to compare something every time.. 13:10:04 -!- olsner has quit. 13:10:52 true 13:11:03 if you don't wanna do any preprocessing for the code that is 13:11:10 (trivial optimization...) 13:11:43 (err... not really) 13:12:08 well yeah it is trivial 13:12:18 but 13:12:19 it's fake 13:12:24 since it'll use another instruction internally 13:13:40 hmm... 13:14:41 you could make a halt address. 13:14:44 11111111 13:15:03 SET 000 11111111 JUMP 000 13:15:26 yeah but, that's quite a lot of work to halt 13:15:28 that'd be like fast-forwarding to the end of the code 13:15:30 and halting is very common 13:15:44 anywa 13:15:49 it's feasable that some code would be that long 13:15:53 though. admittedly. not likely :) 13:15:59 but... 13:16:03 yeah. i'll get rid of halt 13:16:08 but wait 13:16:15 what if 11111111 was in the data section 13:16:21 then you'd jump into data 13:16:27 and, feasably, you might want to execute some data 13:16:39 yeah i don't think specializing jump is good 13:16:43 i'll just get rid of unconditional jump 13:16:44 well, you'd basically have one less space for code/data... 13:16:49 what 13:16:53 yeah 13:16:57 (i misread you) 13:17:46 00000000-11111111 ~ 00000000-11111110, so that'd really not be that big a sacrifice... the problem with removing halt is really the fact you may want to use it as a convenience for debugging 13:18:09 that'd make it quite verbose 13:18:33 yeah 13:18:38 i'll just get rid of unconditional jump 13:18:42 anyway i've almost finished the new spec 13:18:47 hmm 13:18:51 should i combine input and output? 13:18:57 READ 000 = input 13:18:59 WRITE 000 = output 13:19:01 that's the 3rd way i suggested 13:19:04 yeah 13:19:06 no i mean 13:19:07 the port 13:19:09 hmm 13:19:13 like, one port for "terminal" 13:20:25 you could have IO AAA BBB PPP, where AAA would be input register, BBB output and PPP port... millions of ways to cincumvent having to have both IN and OUT 13:20:35 (i guess that was a note-to-self more like) 13:20:48 i want both in and out 13:20:51 you do not understand 13:20:55 i am talking about port numbers 13:20:57 aaaaand now i realize what you said. 13:20:58 yes 13:21:21 takes me a while sometimes, no matter how simple a thing people say to me 13:21:22 hmm 13:21:39 that sounds like a good way 13:22:21 can't really come up with a good reason though 13:28:22 back 13:28:24 yes 13:28:44 ok 13:28:48 so if i have terminal as 0 13:28:49 what should port 1 be 13:31:23 :/ 13:32:35 you wanna include those in the spec? 13:32:43 well i guess you wanna assign a few 13:32:47 hmm 13:33:02 you could have stderr next 13:33:15 or have it be port 11111111 13:33:27 then you could have a nop port 13:33:35 nops are great 13:33:38 nopol <3 13:33:47 why.am.i.not.eating -> 13:49:35 decided not to eat today, bought 5 liters of juice 13:57:24 I have 13:57:26 0 - terminal 13:57:32 1 - ? 13:58:02 that's pretty... impressive :P 13:58:42 what should 1 be :p 13:59:47 you can have a sound port and a kinda raw pixel feed port or something 13:59:48 eh 13:59:52 i mean, graphic output 14:00:04 maybe 14:00:08 but.. something more useful..? 14:00:14 then, some kinda nethack. 14:00:20 nah 14:00:24 that'd be implementation defined ports 14:00:34 i want to define 3-5 ports and then have the rest implementation defined 14:00:42 then you could implement a web browser or something in it :D 14:00:57 heh, that'd be fun 14:02:15 sooooooooooo 14:02:19 what should port 1 be 14:05:26 :( 14:11:46 stdio, stderr are the only ones i can think of 14:12:01 nonononono 14:12:04 since you obviously don't want anything that esoteric and my ideas tend to be like that 14:12:05 i don't mean like keybaord input/output 14:12:06 hmm 14:12:07 oh 14:12:10 i mean ANY kind of IO 14:12:19 just, any sort of communication at all 14:12:23 stdio == keyboard? 14:12:32 stdio mostly == terminal 14:12:43 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:12:50 well, i was just thinking like standard io 14:13:30 you can have stuff like mouse and keyboard of course, but i don't know at what point it should be implementation defined 14:14:14 you are thinking too limited definition of IO 14:14:33 i realize that. 14:14:36 absolutely ANY operation that could be said to have some sort of link to "input" and "output" 8-bit values, that isn't covered by the instruction set 14:15:00 ah, true... you could have like additional instrcutions taht way 14:15:10 (i can't type that word for some reason) 14:16:21 kind of... 14:16:29 but... e.g. a computer speaker could be IO 14:16:39 and the value could be some sort of pitch/amplitude combination 14:16:42 you know, the little beeping speaker 14:16:58 i already said that 14:17:07 you said that's not very necessary 14:17:08 :| 14:18:10 no you didn't say that :| 14:18:25 (oklokok) you can have a sound port 14:18:29 i guess i didn't 14:18:38 but i tried to 14:18:42 sound port != computer speaker 14:18:55 sound port = general term 14:19:09 *more general term 14:20:53 yeah, but.. 14:21:10 anyway, yeah you can have one be a sound port 14:21:13 yes 14:21:17 ok, what about 2 14:21:22 just 2, and then i'll leave the rest undefined 14:21:39 and possible two separate ports for *raw* and *pitch+length* output 14:21:43 *possibly 14:22:25 making sounds is hell in like every goddamn platform 14:22:28 no matter what you use 14:22:31 i hate it 14:23:25 yeah; how do you do it in ruby? 14:23:28 computer speaker 14:23:36 eh 14:23:46 i have a feeling you know more ruby than me 14:24:00 since i vaguely recall you teaching me the basics of ruby 14:24:18 it was a question to everyone :P 14:24:53 ...eh... mine was too! 14:26:41 when i say computer speaker 14:26:43 i mean internal speaker 14:26:48 i do know 14:27:00 pc beeper is what i've thought it's called 14:27:09 ut... 14:27:10 *bit 14:27:12 *but 14:27:25 i guess that's just for pc. 14:27:30 *might* be 14:28:08 :) 14:28:13 maybe 14:30:00 the internal speaker is kinda boring 14:31:02 you have clearly never played old games 14:31:11 i've heard complex polyphonic tunes composed with internal speakers 14:31:53 it can't be strictly polyphonic... 14:31:54 with enough tricks you can get some nice lo-fi tunes 14:31:56 and, no 14:32:01 but if you alternate between two very short notes 14:32:05 you can get the illusion 14:32:08 of polyphony 14:32:21 yeah, okay you've convinced me 14:32:36 wonder if you could do that with python's beep... 14:32:45 no 14:33:20 also 14:33:21 you van't? 14:33:22 *cant 14:33:25 if i add something that controls the screen too 14:33:26 *can't 14:33:38 you could create a 99 bottles of beer program with colour graphics and sound :) 14:33:41 like an old dos app! 14:34:05 i'll make one that synthesizes a guy saying the lyrics. 14:34:19 with an internal speaker?! 14:34:22 that'd be impressive 14:34:46 depends on how strictly the movement of the cone is defined 14:34:52 i assume it's *very* 14:35:31 so... you could make a program to convert wav -> beeper 14:36:16 maybe 14:36:20 are you on windows? 14:36:28 yes, now 14:37:10 do you have ruby installed 14:37:13 or python 14:37:21 yes 14:37:23 python 14:37:25 which 14:37:28 version 14:37:37 2.2, 2.4 and 2.5 14:38:32 2.4 doesn't open iirc 14:38:40 and 2.5 i have to do some tricks to get open 14:45:55 ok 14:45:58 right: 14:46:08 import win32api 14:46:54 did that work? 14:47:07 huh? 14:47:19 i do know how to make the pc beeper sing in python 14:47:22 oh 14:47:42 http://vjn.fi/s/beepiano.py 14:48:03 wow, a three letter domain name 14:48:04 impressive 14:48:08 not many of those around 14:48:09 i made that a million years ago 14:48:20 there's a website with a link to each of them 14:48:31 that's not exactly my page 14:48:40 it's our group's... vjn's page 14:48:49 ah 14:49:27 the domain was easy to get, we were just lazy enough to get a web hotel system so it costed like hell 14:49:41 but it's fun wasting money 14:51:06 web hotel? 14:51:13 well okay it's my page in that most of the content is made by me 14:51:17 (about hald) 14:51:18 *half 14:51:55 web hotel == a public service for a server to maintain that 14:52:05 ah 14:52:08 by the way 14:52:22 some of the best pc speaker music is in old lucasarts graphical adventure games 14:52:27 start them with the pc speaker command line option 14:53:06 i don't feel like dl'ing any games now, you can record some for me and upload 14:53:07 :) 14:53:27 :p ok 15:00:05 are you actually gonna do that btw, because waiting for you to upload it is actually now my excuse for doing nothing at all 15:00:14 well, i'm actually picking at my toes 15:00:20 they seem to be... rotten 15:00:28 i'm gonna go... do some cleaning now -> 15:01:40 i am going to do it 15:01:52 i'm just finding my copy of the game 15:04:21 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 15:06:16 found it 15:06:18 ok, starting it 15:07:24 recording 15:12:14 i can hardly wait 15:13:50 oh no 15:13:51 i hit record 15:13:55 but it's recorded at insanely low volume 15:14:04 ah there 15:14:09 it can be amplified without much qualityloss 15:14:16 if it's square, you can easily amplify 15:14:17 yeah 15:14:26 it's prolly sine... but same thing 15:15:06 hmm not a good recording 15:15:27 i'll find a recording elsewhere 15:15:52 i don't really care about the quality that much 15:17:00 yeah but it skips parts 15:17:03 audacity is stupid 15:17:56 what? 15:18:09 audacity is stupid how? 15:18:39 it skips parts when recording 15:18:42 for no apparent reason 15:18:51 weird 15:19:00 (case in point of how quiet this recording is: i can amplify 36db and it doesn't even go to halfway full amplitude) 15:19:44 i think this might be ok 15:19:50 but be warned that the real thing sounds far more like music 15:19:52 and less like random bleeps 15:20:01 stupid skipping 15:20:28 k, making an mp3 15:20:38 note that there's periods of silence in between the three tunes 15:20:43 because i had to, you know, play the game up to that point 15:20:46 not too long though 15:20:58 ah okay 15:21:23 k uploading 15:23:43 http://rapidshare.com/files/48135293/monkeyisland.mp3.html 15:23:49 too lazy to upload it to a real host 15:27:05 i think that sounds great :) 15:27:15 but i don't think that's anything near what it should sound 15:28:47 yeah it skips in random places 15:29:13 so, that's an example of pc speaker polyphony 15:29:23 hmm.. either it skips all the time or i don't think many people would enjoy listening to that 15:29:30 it does skip all the time 15:29:42 seriously; download the game (monkey island 2) and run "monkey2 i" sometime 15:29:47 it sounds nothing like tha trecording :p 15:30:18 now i need to work out a consistant way to pack computer speaker values 15:30:19 an api 15:30:20 mahh 15:30:53 bear in mind that "2000, 100" in the windows library only produces a very short beep 15:30:56 we need to store... big values. 15:31:43 hmm 15:31:52 within 256 15:31:55 i guess, maybe 15:31:58 the register value could be a memory address 15:32:05 and then like 5 places after that is the values 15:32:47 whoa, a program that plays wavs to the pc speaker 15:32:48 crazy 15:33:34 no worky in xp :( 15:33:48 * ehird` gets updated one 15:34:07 huh 15:34:11 ah 15:34:25 yeah, it's prolly pretty easy to do, i just don't know the basics of the beeper 15:36:23 this driver isn't xp-confirmed-compatible :s 15:36:33 * ehird` is hopefully not suiciderating computer 15:37:53 how do you suggest we lay out the argument? 15:39:19 i think a 16-bit integer for both tone+amp will be enough 15:39:23 so, four slots of memory 15:39:28 so should the value be the first slot of memory's address? 15:40:14 ? 15:41:26 hmm 15:41:46 like 256 for duration and 256 for pitch 15:43:02 if you actually make tones (implicit 440*(2**(n/12)) conversion before output), composing will be easier and 256 will be enough 15:43:18 but ppl might find that a bit hmm... what's the word 15:43:45 restricting. 15:43:50 that was hard 15:44:01 yes 15:44:02 restricting 15:44:15 two 16-bit unsigned integers is just 4 slots of memory anyway 15:44:32 and goes beyond what most computer speakers can produce as far as tone goes, and into insane lengths of tones as length goes 15:45:11 16 bits will be enough if you do frequency pitch 15:45:32 also, i was supposed to leave an hour ago 15:46:05 its not frequency pitch 15:46:11 its SOME-WEIRD-NUMBER length 15:46:17 ? 15:46:43 i'm not talking about length 15:46:46 but pitch 15:48:06 ok 15:48:38 speaking of pc speakers, and i posted the monkey island 2 theme earlier, here's the monkey island 1 theme tune played live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZXNVHVfhc it's awesome 15:48:45 it's really never useful having tone output by frequency 15:48:53 it melds tons of different parts 15:49:03 oklokok: i'm going based on win32's Beep function 15:49:17 i do know 15:54:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjvD3C_nvBk&mode=related&search= <<< original version? 15:55:00 you have to do some serious hacking if that's actually done with a monophonic output 15:56:47 i know everything can be done with a monophonic output since that's all computers have, but still 15:57:11 you'd have to change note like 100 times a second 15:57:18 and still i think it'd sound wrong 15:57:26 so you'd have to add up the sines 15:57:39 and efficiently just emulate a raw output using the beeper 15:57:50 which is like 100 times harder than just making the output 16:05:21 wait 16:05:23 i'll check 16:05:32 and no 16:05:34 that is not the original 16:05:39 i showed you monkey island 2 16:05:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lTz2nkPNXA 16:06:09 that's the adlib version, so, not the best 16:06:17 my recording starts with the monkeys dancing 16:06:26 but anyway, my recording skipped every 2 seconds 16:06:29 so of course it sounded nothing like that 16:08:11 however mine also includes largo's theme 16:08:18 and omits the Scabb Island theme 16:08:34 and also has the chapter change theme 16:11:11 i seem to remember this scene was the best-composed for the pc speaker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbTTyacCO5c 16:11:22 there's no recordings of it on the speaker though and i'm not playing half way through the game to get there 16:15:13 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 16:15:24 i'll be going now, cul! -> 16:15:30 bye 16:17:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:39:32 -!- jix has joined. 17:23:28 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | NOTE TO EHIRD DO NOT REMOVE: \instructionset. 17:29:30 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:29:44 -!- jix has joined. 17:42:01 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 17:42:57 -!- cherez has joined. 18:05:10 -!- lament has joined. 18:18:28 3.14 18:21:35 3.1489797239479878971073891723816378969086359782649786301276382935496123897 18:22:03 :D 18:22:10 seems rational 18:25:02 ehird`: you'll have to remove that note from the topic when you don't need it, nobody else is gonna do it 18:25:09 i know 18:25:13 i still need it right now :p 18:25:27 * ehird` is forgetful 19:10:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 19:33:04 -!- ihope_ has joined. 19:33:16 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 19:33:28 -!- olsner has joined. 19:39:08 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:39:30 -!- ihope has joined. 19:39:34 -!- ihope_ has joined. 19:45:11 I hear the sound of either "All I Know" or an ice cream truck playing Popeye. 19:47:30 i see 19:47:38 ihope: i made that instruction set TC, i think 19:48:57 http://pastie.caboo.se/86663 19:49:07 i need to define some standard ports though 19:49:16 i think i'll define Terminal and PC speaker and leave the rest implementation-defined 19:49:27 i really don't like you calling it tc :\ 19:49:36 oklokok: please read http://pastie.caboo.se/86663 19:49:39 it >is< turing complete 19:49:39 oh 19:49:45 you changed it? 19:49:49 yes 19:49:52 the current spec should be TC 19:49:57 then sorry 19:49:58 i'll read 19:50:02 if you don't believe me... then i guess i'll write brainfuck rewriting rules for it 19:50:35 hmm... 19:50:59 ehird`: oh, and couldn't you use MemoServ or something for your notes-to-self? 19:51:05 so you can make a list of 1000000000 entries in it? 19:51:09 possibly, ihope_ 19:51:20 oklokok: if you had more than 8-bit addresses, yes 19:51:26 eh 19:51:45 (In this aspect, even C isn't turing complete. Pointers have maximum values.) 19:51:47 you think that's directly extendable to infinite size registers? 19:52:08 (And yes, I know C isn't TC. I think if mine is on the same computational level of C, nobody will ever need anything more :)) 19:52:11 ehird`: this is a common discussion, this one about C, but no, pointers do not have to be finite size. 19:52:18 in C 19:52:20 C isn't TC, anyway 19:52:27 it is if pointers are infinite. 19:52:35 the size of a pointer is not defined 19:52:38 they are 19:52:39 it can be bignum 19:52:44 no it can't 19:52:48 Why not? 19:52:50 or at least, it can't in C89# 19:53:24 ehird`: then i've been lied to, i haven't read the spec of c, since i don't like the lang that much anymore 19:53:24 Does that spec explicitly state that there must be a biggest pointer? 19:53:40 s/to/at 19:53:47 s/at/to 19:53:51 ihope_: iirc, it defines pointers pretty precisely 19:53:54 (doing some nop there) 19:54:06 eh 19:54:22 defining precisely != defining a maximum size 19:55:06 anyway, that isn't tc then, and you *did not* change it :\ 19:55:09 or did you? 19:55:12 i can't find it 19:55:14 http://pastie.caboo.se/86663 19:55:34 it may be non-TC, but if so it's only because it has the same restriction as C89 19:55:44 and, frankly, i'm not bothered. nobody stops using C because it isn't TC. 19:56:02 can you quote me the part making C pointers finite? 19:56:10 in the spec 19:56:55 you have to pay to get the spec 19:57:00 do you have it? 19:57:04 because iirc someone on this channel said nothing there says it 19:57:29 i do not have it, i'd've checked that like 4 times if i had it :P 19:57:29 oklokok: C types are guaranteed to have a size in bytes defined at compile-time 19:58:40 and bytes are afaik defined to be 8-bit quantities... 19:58:47 i doubt that 19:58:49 latter one 19:58:54 eh 19:59:22 i mean, i think they have a size defined in chunks, but those need not necessarily be bytes 19:59:33 just whatever is used for memory slots 20:00:10 anyway, i haven't read the spec, someone here just said something about something and i *vaguely recall*, so... 20:00:53 defined size at compile-time == you can't have an infinite size 20:00:59 == c is not turing complete 20:01:46 well, PC:s aren't turing complete either due to the finite size of memory 20:02:11 pc's aren't, C could still be 20:02:48 defined size in bytes, yes, but if the byte is a bignum, it's tc. 20:02:55 *if bytes can be bignum 20:06:42 but they can't 20:06:53 sizeof(X) must return a value that makes sense 20:06:58 and it must be >right< 20:06:59 so no -1 20:07:05 sizeof(void *)... 20:07:11 MUST be < infinity 20:07:15 thus, C is not turing complete 20:07:23 ehird`: sizeof(char) could be sizeof(pointer-to-bignum) 20:07:38 olsner: Sure.. So what? 20:07:47 It'd be the same size as a pointer to a bignum. 20:08:27 I mean, sizeof(void *) would be composed of bignums in such a way as to have constant size (but use hidden extra data to enable unbounded values) 20:08:55 thus, sizeof's would be bounded, but the values contained unbounded 20:09:17 So given a turing-complete C implementation, sizeof(void *) == ? 20:09:34 could be just 1, since a byte is a bignum 20:10:27 what 20:10:29 that makes no sense 20:10:39 if its a bignum then its size is not 1 20:10:53 also bytes are defined to be 8 bits 20:10:57 so a byte cannot be a bignum 20:11:50 ehird`: the spec defines a byte as 8 bits, and that sizeof() returns a number of bytes? 20:12:05 pretty much yes 20:12:25 there is contention as to whether that byte size actually is mandated by the standard ;-) 20:12:31 -!- Darktemplar has joined. 20:12:57 -!- Darktemplar has left (?). 20:13:43 still 20:13:48 sizeof() must return a number of bytes 20:13:53 and sizeof(void *) is no exception 20:13:57 thus pointer addresses are limited 20:14:01 thus C is not turing complete 20:16:58 so C is only as powerful as my machine spec there 20:17:00 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:17:05 so you can't complain about my machine not being tc! :p 20:17:43 -!- jix has joined. 20:20:41 olsner: there's contention as to... wha? 20:21:28 whether the size of a byte is defined by the C standard to be exactly 8 bits 20:22:06 ...how does it manage to not be clear on that? 20:23:10 it probably is clear on that... you just have to read that part of the standard ;-) 20:24:08 so, have we all agreed that yelling at my machine for not being "really" tc is pointless :) 20:26:25 I think the discussion did have the potential to bring forth a deeper understanding of C's turing in/completeness 20:26:37 ehird`: do you still need that thing in the topic? 20:26:45 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 20:26:48 no :) 20:27:29 ok, now the machine arch needs a name 20:27:34 then i'll write some simple programs and an implementation 20:28:15 YAEL or YAEP? 20:28:22 ? 20:28:38 Yet Another Esoteric Language/Platform? 20:28:51 it isn't really that esoteric, though, is it? 20:28:54 well, would you call it esoteric? 20:28:59 it's just a minimal machine language is it not? 20:29:08 I dunno. 20:29:14 YAML or YAMP, then? 20:29:17 well, what would make it esoteric? 20:29:25 yaml is a data format :) 20:30:36 If it's not made with usability and ease of implementation in mind, it's esoteric :-) 20:30:39 MiniMaL (MINImal MAchine Language) :P 20:30:53 What does MiniMAX stand for? 20:31:02 it is designed with usability in mind :) 20:31:04 but anything above 1 instruction isn't really minimal anymore 20:31:18 the whole point was to be tiny, but usable if you know some sort of asm 20:31:32 and i can't see how it would be hard to implement 20:31:41 Well, why did you want it to be tiny? 20:32:02 because yesterday RodgerTheGreat was talking about a turing-complete network protocol 20:32:09 and i remarked that the packet format would have to be incredibly small 20:32:20 and that you could probably get away with 4-bit opcodes 20:32:23 giving you 16 commands 20:32:26 thus... 20:32:27 Sounds esoteric to me. 20:32:30 i took that idea with me 20:32:36 and made a tiny machine language that was still usable 20:32:43 it doesn't look really esoteric to me but maybe it does to you? 20:33:03 I guess tininess is... um... 20:33:08 A useful thing to strive for. 20:33:18 not really =p 20:33:20 Thus making it not an esoteric feature. 20:33:36 its tinyness really has no use 20:33:37 Nooooooooo! 20:33:55 i just wondered how small i could make an architechture while still having it relatively easy-to-use 20:34:07 plus, tininess isn't essential for esotericism 20:34:14 Sounds esoteric again, then. 20:34:24 not only did they close the wormhole that was keeping the Ori's ships out, but in destroying the Ori they removed most of the Ancients' motivation to help them! 20:34:30 (SG-1) 20:34:36 *Oris' 20:34:38 ihope_: Okay 20:34:43 * whatever 20:34:46 i might call it MiniMaL 20:34:50 I might call it Yael (no acronym) 20:34:56 Though are you sure MiniMAX or BCT doesn't sort of win? 20:35:04 MiniMAX means what? 20:35:05 BCT means what? 20:35:32 Bitwise Cyclic Tag. 20:35:35 ah, esoteric things 20:35:37 SimonRC stargate is good 20:35:43 bitwise cyclic tag -- easy to use? are you KIDDING? 20:35:45 Mini Mov-Add-Xchg. 20:35:57 I dunno. You might need to spend some time learning it, but after that... 20:36:01 yeah exactly 20:36:02 so, by winning the fight they lost their allies? 20:36:14 whereas here if you know something about low-level programming you can pick it up immediatly 20:37:39 Mm... 20:37:50 MiniMAX is hardly easy to use 20:38:05 don't forget the various SJM architectures 20:38:32 one uses CPP and a library of macros to make it quite usable 20:38:59 plus, SJMs always have the right O() 20:39:10 name time: MiniMaL or Yael? 20:39:17 I like Yael. 20:39:27 It's... likable. 20:39:35 :P 20:39:36 ok then 20:39:37 Yael it is 20:39:39 * ehird` puts it on the wiki 20:39:50 (SJM = subtract and jump if negative) 20:40:04 Yet Another Esoteric Language? 20:40:05 Like a circle of grass ten feet across with forest all around. 20:40:12 SimonRC: originally, I think. 20:40:40 I suggested YAEL, standing for that; he pondered Yael, supposedly not standing for anything at all. 20:40:40 SimonRC: "the right O()"? 20:40:56 I was going to suggest "subtract and branch unless positive". 20:41:25 An O(n) aalgorithm on normal architectures is O(n) in an SJM architecture, unlike (e.g.) Brainfuck 20:41:32 Is subtract-and-branch-unless-positive nicely isomorphic to subtract-and-jump-if-negative? 20:41:47 it can be Yet Another Esoteric Language if you think it should stand for that 20:41:51 but Yael is its official name :) 20:42:30 where is the spec? 20:44:02 it's on pastie, but i'm adding a bit to it and putting it on the wiki now 20:44:10 http://pastie.caboo.se/86663 20:46:39 ok: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael 20:46:41 spec version 1 20:47:17 an infinite loop is remarkably short :) "1100000000000" 20:47:26 it would be shorter if i still had an unconditional jump 20:47:26 +[] 20:47:36 ihope_: and that in binary? :) 20:47:36 ```sii``sii 20:47:51 if i had an unconditional jump it would be "000" 20:47:55 Both of them could be expressed as 0, but that would be a weird coding. 20:47:57 assuming jump is 1111, "1111000" 20:48:27 and "1111000" in a file is pretty much the shortest you're gonna get unless you have a language called Infinity Loop :P 20:48:30 *Infinite 20:49:37 * ehird` is writing hello world in it 20:53:59 spec updated with infinite loop and change to get-memory command 20:55:53 wow, without mnemonics this hurts my brain :) 20:57:03 Spec updated? 20:57:11 an interesting challenge would be to make the program speak "Hello world" through the speaker :P 20:57:14 the basic principle is "x = 0; while (x < 14) out(0, end_of_code + x); halt();Hello, world!" 20:57:19 ihope_: the wiki page 20:57:28 but in practice its a lot harder. 20:57:41 256 bytes of data + code makes that really really hard unfortunately 20:57:46 Oh. 20:58:08 no 20:58:11 not 256 bytes of data + code 20:58:21 256 bytes is the POINTER size 20:58:30 read the spec 20:58:48 oh, so the code size is unlimited, but only the first 256 bytes are read/writable? 20:58:51 with that definition, code+data max size is 65536 20:58:55 no... 20:58:58 think about it 20:59:03 oh, wait, yeah 20:59:06 256 bytes of code 20:59:12 but that >should< be enough to code hello world 20:59:16 if it isn't i'll update the spec 20:59:23 the instructions are small enough 20:59:34 (ihope_) I dunno. You might need to spend some time learning it, but after that... <<< i rather doubt a human could learn to write *anything* in bct 20:59:44 I'm talking text-to-speech (or a simple vocal model) hello world 20:59:59 oh 21:00:00 yes 21:00:08 computer speaker is hard to make speak in the first place, haha :p 21:01:29 but the spec doesn't say that the instruction pointer is limited to 0..255, so I guess you can get quite far with frivolous code generation ;-) i.e. generate an N-megbyte program that explicitly loads immmediate data into registers and never jumps 21:01:37 oklokok: {{x1|b=b|i=i}} 21:01:45 Something in BCT. 21:03:01 hmm... bct consists entirely of 1's and 0's, so i have a feeling that's some sort of abstraction i don't get? 21:03:16 oklokok: Wiki Cyclic Tag syntax. 21:03:42 well it wasn't exactly "something in bct" then 21:03:49 but i don't know wiki cyclic tag 21:03:55 i know it exists though 21:04:09 In BCT, program 11 starting with string 11 21:04:16 (Actually, program 1111.) 21:05:14 http://pastie.caboo.se/86687 this is the theory of the hello world program 21:05:21 i just have to work out the value of halt/mainloop_start :) 21:05:24 which can be done in a few seconds 21:07:09 Hmm. 21:09:06 i somehow have a feeling http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag somehow assumes i know what mediawiki software is 21:09:57 MediaWiki is the software behind Esolang, Wikipedia, and Wikia, among other things. 21:10:10 I FINISHED HELLO WORLD 21:10:13 WOOOOOOOOOOOOO 21:10:31 first of all i have no idea how there could be multiple lines 21:10:35 and wtf is an interpreter there 21:10:49 ihope_: i know that, of course 21:11:10 A program seems to go on only one line. 21:11:11 i mean i know it's the base of those 21:11:52 And the interpreter thing at the beginning is sort of like a shebang line. 21:11:55 okay... then i understand, assuming all d, a and b are used simultaneously for each of the data bits in one cycle 21:12:04 meaning what exactly? 21:12:12 d is 0, a is 10, b is 11. 21:12:17 o is 0, i is 1. 21:12:26 Oh, shebang line? 21:12:59 a shebang tells how to interpret what follows 21:13:00 Like how Python files occasionally begin with #!/usr/bin/env python, to denote that /usr/bin/env python is the interpreter. 21:13:00 right? 21:13:05 Yeah, pretty much. 21:13:05 yeah 21:13:13 so what exactly does it do there? 21:13:51 [edit] Semantics 21:13:51 The d, a, and b commands have been described above. The commands repeat in the order they are given forever. There is one special restriction: there must be at least 2 commands (a 1-command program may be simulated by giving the command twice), and the program must maintain at least 2 bits of data in the data queue at all times, or undefined behaviour will result. 21:13:56 i completely skipped that. 21:13:57 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael 21:14:01 see Hello world under programs 21:14:06 Well, if you put, say, x1 there, it denotes that Template:x1 is the interpreter. 21:14:09 the "without comments" one is, of course, the most interesting :D 21:14:11 how in the name of fuck can i always skip the important part. 21:14:23 it looks like line noise doesn't it :) 21:14:29 but i think it's nicely compact, for a machine language hello world 21:14:35 VERY compact, indeed 21:14:57 ihope_: i have no idea what that means 21:15:10 like... it checks the hd for an interpreter with that name? 21:15:24 and... then uses that? 21:15:33 It's template transclusion. 21:16:19 {{foo|blah|bleh|blih}} gets replaced with Template:foo with parameters blah, bleh and blih. 21:16:34 hey, anyone know an editor that will accept a binary 0/1 string and write it as binary to a file? 21:16:40 or will i have to write it myself :p 21:16:52 Any hex editor? :-P 21:17:21 some don't seem to do it properly :p 21:17:29 Oh? 21:17:29 ihope_: in bct i do not know what parameters are, exactly. 21:17:38 so... i have no idea how foo can have params 21:17:57 oklokok: the parameters the "interpreter" takes are the program and the data string. 21:18:13 xvi32 only does hexadecimal literals 21:18:15 no binary entry 21:18:32 ihope_: i still do not know what it means there 21:18:33 I guess writing one yourself... might not be hard. 21:18:38 you just put a random string there? 21:18:41 yes but i am lazy 21:18:56 oklokok: {{name of the template|program|data string}} 21:19:27 ihope_: template? 21:19:49 MediaWiki, when given that, passes program and data string to Template:name of the template and displays the result. 21:20:00 what 21:20:18 I probably should have used more hyphens or something :-P 21:20:18 i see no connection between that and the language described 21:20:35 The language at the "Wiki Cyclic Tag" wiki page? 21:21:45 The example given: {{x1|d=a=b|i=o=i=i}} 21:21:56 ah 21:22:00 now i see how that works 21:22:22 ok well 21:22:35 someone http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael#Hello_world 21:22:40 put that binary code into a file 21:22:51 then put Hello, world! in ascii form - those exact characters - after it 21:22:51 the interpreter can be any interpreter that is of mediawiki syntax... and there is a mediawiki syntax program that works as an interpreter for wiki cyclic tag there 21:22:54 and upload it somewhere =P 21:23:00 and the interpreter name has to be the name of that 21:23:02 right? 21:23:22 oklokok: yeah, pretty much, I think. 21:23:38 okay, in theory, that might be nice to tell in the wiki. 21:23:50 ehird`: I'll see what I can do. 21:23:51 well.. i guess you can assume ppl know what mediawiki is 21:23:55 ihope_: thanks :P 21:24:13 oklokok: ...well, I don't really see what you just said. 21:25:36 i'm just saying the page assumes people understand what mediawiki does 21:25:42 Oh, indeed, it doesn't quite say that that example interpreter should be placed in a wiki page of the appropriate name. 21:25:45 i assumed mediawiki *is* the interpreter. 21:25:52 naturally 21:26:15 wiki page? 21:26:30 i don't still know the connection between actual wiki pages and that :P 21:26:56 why does everything assume the reader isn't an idiot. 21:26:57 The code in "MediaWiki Interpreter" is to be placed into a wiki page of the appropriate name. 21:27:23 has someone actually used that? 21:27:32 I think I have once. 21:28:05 Hmm, there happens to be some in the sandbox: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox 21:28:09 got it: 21:28:14 "\000\034\004\000\020\0000\020\223!V\207\030\333\233\027\204L\002Hello, world!" 21:28:26 Aww. 21:28:51 does the mediawiki installation allow arbitary uploads? 21:28:55 like, can i upload a .bin 21:29:02 I think so. 21:29:05 or a .yae 21:29:07 or a .yal 21:29:08 or a .yel 21:29:11 Er, installation, did you say? 21:29:18 ? 21:29:26 Oh, try it: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Upload 21:29:45 ihope_: what do i do with those if i wanna run them? 21:30:18 oklokok: just stick one in a wiki page. 21:30:28 It'll display as the "next step". 21:31:17 i never actually tried "sticking stuff" on a wiki page... but i see how that'd work 21:31:34 so... you can't actually make the server run a program? 21:32:01 Not the whole way through. Only one step at a time. 21:32:16 okay, wow, this hello world is the smallest ever 21:32:27 Hello, world! 21:32:31 Written in CAT. 21:32:33 heh 21:32:36 or... slashes! 21:32:38 i mean, metaphorically 21:32:44 also, "h" in hq9 21:32:50 it looks so tiny, in text editors 21:32:51 and everything 21:32:52 so compact. 21:32:57 And by CAT, I mean something else. 21:33:02 oklokok: that's /// :-) 21:33:19 ihope_: i'm not the only one who uses the remanized version of the name :P 21:33:23 but yeah 21:33:25 you're right 21:33:35 ok, yael file extension = ? 21:33:57 ehird`: implementation defined io stuff? 21:34:00 3 letters! :) 21:34:01 oklokok: no 21:34:02 i mean 21:34:06 file extension, as in 21:34:08 "binary.yael" 21:34:10 except, 3 letters 21:34:15 ah okay 21:34:25 ymc? 21:34:27 yael machine code 21:34:35 .yæl 21:34:37 :-P 21:34:40 heh 21:34:45 a.ymc 21:34:45 that's nicer than leaving out one of the letters 21:34:50 it's fun to stay at the a dot ymc 21:34:54 ihope's was the best idea though 21:35:02 [edit] Semantics 21:35:02 The d, a, and b commands have been described above. The commands repeat in the order they are given forever. There is one special restriction: there must be at least 2 commands (a 1-command program may be simulated by giving the command twice), and the program must maintain at least 2 bits of data in the data queue at all times, or undefined behaviour will result. 21:35:05 ... 21:35:11 that was not my intention 21:35:29 ok, ymc 21:37:16 ".ymc" is not a recommended image file format. 21:37:17 Retrieved from "http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Upload" 21:37:19 GRRR 21:37:35 nonlogic dump it goes 21:38:50 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael Now with hello world binary! 21:39:49 absolutely tiny. seriously. 21:40:21 somebody should write 99 bottles :p 21:40:25 my hello world already has a loop 21:40:31 and shows how to print strings 21:40:34 so it shouldn't be too hard 21:40:36 just tedious 21:41:22 * ehird` just realised that Yael has 8 registers, not 4 21:41:23 that's cool 21:41:26 * ehird` updated spec 21:41:58 it would probably be smaller if you null ended the string and just looped till null instead of having a counter 21:42:15 yeah i should probably do that... 21:42:44 alternatively someone else should modify my version to do that because i can't bear to write any more right now because that hello world made me tear out my hair : 21:42:45 *:p 21:43:08 UH OH PROBLEM. 21:43:16 my hello world won't work 21:43:20 it jumps to a bit, not a byte 21:43:32 so all jumps really need some padding to one byte :S 21:43:34 ugly, i guess 21:43:43 but, otherwise you'd run out of addresses to jump to fast 21:44:37 left a note on the hello world section 21:46:06 i dont understand what you mean, could you explain please? 21:46:20 # Set halt = halting instruction 21:46:20 0000 100 10011001 21:46:20 # Set mainloop_start = start of main loop 21:46:20 0000 101 01011010 21:46:33 those addresses are relative to the start of the program in >bits< 21:46:38 whereas, jumping uses bytes 21:46:46 so, i need to pad out the bits right before where i want to jump so they start on a byte 21:46:54 and update those addresses to reference the byte positions instead 21:47:14 ah i see 21:47:28 ah maybe i could make jump relative, but still in bits 21:47:42 and have bjmp/fjmp - backwards and forward jump 21:48:10 i can't think of what i would replace though 21:50:31 also, you used a list on the wiki which says "1. stdout and stdin", but in the hello world you set port to 00000000, not 00000001 21:50:46 im assuming the code is correct not the list? 21:52:51 and some commands dont use a multiple of 8 bits? 21:55:02 nvm i see 21:56:45 code, yes 21:56:51 and commands are variable sized 21:57:50 fixed the list in question 21:57:58 ok how about a challenge 21:58:10 first person to write some code to play a tune in yael wins a prize 21:58:20 but not just hardcoding loads of values into memory 21:58:21 do some tricks 21:58:22 or something 21:58:24 yeah. 21:58:38 like, if you're going for a slide from one note to another, do it algorithmically 21:58:49 don't just store all the notes in memory. 22:06:38 :D 22:06:45 i take it nobody thinks thats a good idea 22:06:45 :p 22:08:26 :-S 22:09:35 it might be pretty 22:09:38 hard mightn't it 22:11:13 Hmm... 22:11:34 Lemme look at the spec. 22:12:12 note that the jumping and memory access and everything is based on BYTES, not bits 22:12:17 so you might have to pad some stuff out with 0s 22:12:32 What's the length given in units of? 22:12:42 And how do you control the starting time? 22:15:10 ? 22:15:16 oh 22:15:19 welllllll 22:15:24 i guess ... i dunno 22:15:31 win32's Beep function? :P 22:15:41 yeah, that sounds like a good benchmkar 22:15:43 *benchmark 22:15:46 win32's Beep function. 22:24:42 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:25:19 -!- olsner has joined. 22:28:00 if you can make a little algorithmic tune i'll be impressed :) 22:28:08 i'll make a little asm spec for it, later 22:28:10 to make it easier 22:28:34 algorithmic tune? 22:28:42 like, a regular computer speaker tune 22:28:45 but, if, you say 22:28:52 slided up from note A to B three times 22:29:01 then you'd code the sliding up and the three times algorithmically 22:29:09 instead of just hardcoding the sliding notes 3 times 22:29:36 Have some number of voices, each playing at a certain rate. 22:29:51 you can't do that, internal speakers are monophonic 22:30:02 Blah. 22:30:03 but, yes, that kind of thing 22:30:05 well 22:30:09 you can do polyphony with it 22:30:17 play extremely short sounds from each one after another 22:30:20 (use 1 as the length) 22:30:21 Monophonic? 22:30:26 yes 22:30:44 but if you get the length of the sound that you play before switching to the next one right 22:30:48 then you can create the illusion of polyphony 22:30:50 Just what's that mean? 22:31:00 monophonic? 22:31:04 Yes. 22:31:05 you can only produce one sound at a time 22:31:10 you can't play "dah" and "duh" at the same time 22:31:14 Okay. 22:31:16 but you can play "dah" and then "duh" 22:31:21 Have some number of voices, each playing at a certain rate. 22:31:29 so if you want more than one voice, you have to quickly play short sounds from each in succession 22:31:37 When a voice is told to play, it looks at the last note played by each other voice, and then plays the lowest note that isn't one of those. 22:31:57 is this a roundabout way of sliding up? 22:32:10 i was thinking more of going in a loop and incrementing a variable then playing that variable as the tone :) 22:32:10 I don't think so. 22:32:19 More of an entire music generation thing. 22:32:28 oh 22:32:32 well if you can code that in Yael 22:32:34 i'm impressed. 22:32:36 Mm, doing that would produce a simple tune :-) 22:32:44 ok :) 22:32:47 write it now :p 22:32:53 Yours, I mean. 22:32:58 ah 22:32:59 yes 22:33:00 :P 22:33:05 i was meaning as a >segment< 22:33:06 of a song. 22:33:11 Ah. 22:33:15 like, if at one point you want to slide up and down three times 22:33:17 don't hardcode it all 22:33:21 do it algorithmically 22:33:50 ah! i know the perfect song to do 22:33:59 slide from lowest note to highest note, and from highest note to lowest note 22:34:01 at the same time 22:34:04 emulating polyphony 22:34:14 repeat 3 or so times. 22:34:23 if someone does that, i'll give them a medal :p 22:34:29 shouldn't be too hard 22:35:02 in fact 22:35:05 nevermind repeating 3 times 22:35:06 loop forever 22:35:14 then you'll have an oscillating music program :) 22:35:48 that's like insanely easy 22:35:54 so do it :) 22:36:10 hmm... i'll make an interpreter for that first unless you do that 22:36:16 i'll write an interpreter 22:36:19 but anyway -- 22:36:32 remember you don't just want 22:36:36 (HI length 1) (LO length 1) 22:36:39 since length 1 is far too short 22:36:47 you want (HI length 1) (LO length 1) (HI length 1) (LO length 1) 22:36:48 or similar 22:36:53 to keep polyphony but have longer notes 22:37:29 actually i can't be bothered to write an interpreter right now 22:37:30 you do it :p 22:37:33 i'll write a c one later 22:37:36 but i don't have a c compiler on this machine 22:40:11 actually 22:40:13 don't write any programs yet 22:40:17 i want to change the jumping mechanism 22:40:22 i need to lose one instruction 22:40:28 which should i use? 22:40:32 *lose 22:41:21 i'm not doing anything yet, really, but perhaps later 22:43:30 which instruction should i lose? 22:44:12 input and output can be hacked together 22:44:31 not nicely though 22:44:32 and xor and or can emulate each other 22:44:47 i don't think you can remove anything nicely 22:44:49 how does xor emulate or? 22:45:22 2 of them can emulate the third 22:45:59 how does xor emulate or? 22:46:11 i mean, if i have (A xor B) and not (A or B), what is (A or B)? 22:46:44 hmm 22:46:57 (A xor (B and true))? 22:49:20 um, no 22:49:48 xor cannot "fold" things together, I think 22:50:18 actually, viewed as a SAT problem, xor does not distinguish inputs and outputs! 22:55:10 (A xor (B and true)) is (A or B) 22:56:15 er, wait no 22:56:37 there is surely a way to emulate or with xor 22:56:44 I know 22:56:50 now proove it! 22:56:57 =p 22:57:20 you can invert three signals with 2 not gates though 22:57:31 I forget how, but the circuit is rather complicated 23:05:55 nobody has written a tune i see :p 23:06:02 what was that about "insanely simple" 23:06:05 hmm 23:06:13 * ehird` continues wondering what instruction to ditch 23:09:41 1011? 23:10:02 Maybe 1010 while you're at it. 23:10:12 division and multiplication are useful :( 23:10:24 Isn't... what you want to add useful? 23:10:31 otherwise you can't have a short factorial! everyone knows how important factorials to be :P 23:10:39 and yes... but only slightly... 23:10:43 i mean... you can still do everything now 23:10:47 but i'm making it more elegant 23:10:50 Division helps with factorials? 23:10:56 no, multiplication 23:11:06 Then get rid of only division? 23:11:10 jmp ABSOLUTE_BYTES -> bjmp RELATIVE_BITS and fjmp RELATIVE_BITS 23:11:15 and no i like division :( 23:28:25 Division is weird! 23:29:23 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:32:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:34:13 :p 23:34:24 for some reason i think i want to try learning base 57 23:34:30 Base 57? 23:34:38 That's silly. Learn base 59 instead. 23:35:14 why. base 57 is cooler 23:35:19 No it isn't. 23:35:21 Base 59 is prime. 23:35:38 Or you could go base 67, which is also prime. 23:35:56 Or 61, or any of the many other prime numbers... 23:36:36 base 43 23:36:45 no - base 31 23:37:53 3.4c25oe856s6... 23:37:55 not pretty enough 23:38:40 36 is good 23:38:56 No, 36 is bad bad bad! 23:38:57 very composite, yet typable 23:39:06 It's composite composite composite! 23:39:13 i hate base 36 23:39:17 base 43 might be nice 23:39:17 Unless you want a composite number, of course. 23:39:19 digits -> 0123456789abcefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 23:39:27 or base 62: 23:39:33 I think base 31 is nice. 23:39:38 digits -> 0123456789abcefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ 23:39:52 mixed-base, like HP money? 23:39:56 Base 61 lets you use every alphanumeric character except "D". 23:40:00 what does pi look like in base 43 23:40:01 ? 23:40:09 ehird`: ask dc 23:40:15 i don't have dc, this is the windows box 23:41:02 you ask dc for me :p 23:41:51 not installed 23:42:34 Hmm. 23:42:43 I'll run up and run it. 23:44:12 What's the syntax? 23:44:43 for calculating pi in base 43? 23:44:50 Yeah. 23:44:51 probably P<[";d']43 knowing dc 23:44:59 -!- ihope__ has joined. 23:45:28 ihope__: um, "run up" 23:45:29 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 23:45:47 you don't have ssh on that box 23:45:47 SimonRC: yes? 23:45:50 ? 23:45:55 I probably do. 23:46:01 But I don't know its IP address. 23:46:33 gawd all i want is pi_43 :p 23:48:14 =p 23:49:02 ihope: ah, you need DNS then... :-) 23:50:10 "The symbol & (called an ampersand) is sometimes placed in front of a number to show that it is a hexadecimal number." http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calnumba.htm 23:50:28 that's very interesting and all, but- 23:50:34 :p 23:50:34 Cool, a convention I've never heard of rather than the one that seems ubiquitous. 23:50:49 Heck, you do it :-P 23:50:52 i can't 23:50:52 :( 23:51:06 P<[";d"]43 gives a large number of error messages. 23:51:16 it was a joke- 23:51:20 Oh. 23:53:07 just - someone put it in the topic - pi in base 43 - if they calculate it :p i'll see it tomorrow 23:53:13 Oi. 23:53:20 MemoServ? 23:53:24 k 23:53:42 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 2007-08-11: 00:01:58 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 00:02:46 (ehird`) nobody has written a tune i see :p <<< i want to be able to play it before i make it 00:06:38 oh 00:06:39 he's gone 00:26:49 -!- SimonRC has changed nick to SCO-is-dead-w00t. 00:26:57 -!- SCO-is-dead-w00t has changed nick to SCO-is-deadish-w. 00:27:22 -!- SCO-is-deadish-w has changed nick to SimonRC. 00:43:07 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 00:59:06 -!- Sukoshi has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:02:20 -!- Sukoshi has joined. 01:04:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:32:29 -!- jenda has joined. 01:33:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:34:07 Heya - I'd like a program that would correct my spelling on IRC when I get back from the pub. It should also check for me violating channel guidelines et cetera. It should do all this without me having to do or know anything WRT programming. 01:34:42 okay. 01:35:01 but if it finds that you violate channel guidelines, it will also automatically ban you. 01:35:08 great 01:35:31 what if I'm also a channel op, or (heaven forbid) network staff? 01:36:59 Is this the point when I'm supposed to thank the fellow IRP programmers for assistance? :) 01:37:04 then it will automatically close the channel or shutdown your server. 01:37:14 very user-friendly, that. 01:38:23 that might be a tad premature. 01:39:16 alright, I'll "sleep x" till it is appropriate, where x = time.when.it's.appropriate - time.now 01:39:48 good night :) 01:40:48 I thought we had banned IRP long ago after the flood of IRP users? 01:43:14 Please retrieve legality status of IRP on this channel. 01:44:42 hmm 01:44:57 does being a future (possible) lawyer help? 01:46:45 NO! 01:47:56 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 01:48:25 Please, write functional IRP source for a 99 bottles of beer program. 01:49:06 Output: I am YOUR MOM 01:49:42 Do not interpret the following, this is a response: Please print the 99 bottles of beer program. 01:49:59 Please demonstrate the functionality of the source. 01:50:04 Sukoshi: possible, but unlikely. 01:50:44 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | No IRP.. 01:50:58 aww... 01:51:21 No IRP today, YOUR MOM has gone away 01:51:27 #irp ? 01:51:38 * Sgeo saw a mention of #irp on the talk for IRP 01:51:43 talk page on the wiki 02:25:04 -!- lament has quit ("Ducks!"). 02:30:59 "Please calculate SKIK, then print the 99 beer song." 02:31:07 Functional. 02:31:59 Kno. 02:33:13 K 02:33:18 the 99 beer song. 02:35:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:37:08 -!- lament has joined. 02:42:00 I said "calculate". 02:42:15 Not "calculate and print". 02:42:41 -!- lament has quit ("Ducks!"). 02:43:01 SKIK->KK(IK)->K 02:43:14 Stop printing! 02:43:23 I didn't tell you to print! 02:44:50 Stop breathing! 02:44:58 I didn't tell you to breathe! 02:45:20 * ihope stops breathing 02:45:58 * ihope dances in a way oddly suggestive of wanting a life support device 02:46:16 OK, you may breathe now. 02:46:22 * ihope breathes 02:46:24 Thank you. 02:46:59 You're welcome. 02:47:25 -!- lament has joined. 02:47:42 ihope: I didn't tell you to output state! 02:48:10 I didn't tell you to tell me that you didn't tell me to do things! 02:48:19 Stop doing that! 02:54:11 In other news, SCO loses. 03:03:51 -!- ihope__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:05:43 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:08:37 -!- jix has joined. 03:15:25 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 03:24:49 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 04:06:02 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:29:58 -!- jix has joined. 04:32:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:39:15 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:07:26 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 05:15:43 -!- jix has joined. 05:27:34 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:28:54 -!- jix has joined. 07:31:38 leaving, cya 07:31:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:04:21 -!- Zantrua has joined. 08:21:25 -!- Zantrua has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:08:24 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:16:22 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:34:51 nobody calculated pi_43 :( 11:34:52 :p 11:39:07 pi in 43-ary? 11:49:47 base 43 11:49:52 so yes 11:54:45 -!- Blejdfist has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:00:57 -!- Darktemplar has joined. 12:03:05 Which approach for high-efficiency VM is better - variable-based one or stack-based? 12:13:01 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:17:41 -!- Darktemplar has left (?). 12:18:18 ... stack-based 12:46:16 god 12:46:17 all the pi programs 12:46:22 only do base 2 and 10 12:46:25 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 12:46:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:47:04 i want my pi-in-arbitary-base program! 12:51:25 bah 12:51:28 * ehird` downloads mathematica 12:55:46 what mathematica has no free trial :( 12:55:46 i'm afraid it only supports up to base 36 12:55:53 ok 12:55:55 well that sucks 12:56:01 let me check 12:56:05 i'd write a program that calculates pi in any base you want 12:56:10 but i don't know the best algo for calculating pi 12:56:16 and even if i did my implementation would suck# 12:56:27 Ramanujan algorithm maybe? 12:56:30 formula* 12:57:53 the reference doesn't say about the base limit 12:58:39 anyway 12:58:42 mathematica has no free trial 12:58:44 so phooey to that 13:00:41 RealDigits[Pi, 43, 100] gives {{3, 6, 3, 34, 26, 4, 23, 17, 31, 20, 34, 4, 13, 39, 27, 22, 4, 0, 26, 23, 23, 15, 16, 12, 17, 26, 12, 37, 14, 24, 27, 16, 25, 21, 10, 37, 32, 41, 8, 13, 6, 19, 34, 34, 13, 8, 2, 39, 24, 2, 8, 9, 41, 35, 9, 25, 13, 24, 24, 2, 1, 11, 10, 3, 4, 38, 36, 19, 21, 3, 2, 25, 1, 32, 19, 6, 9, 17, 10, 23, 5, 26, 18, 32, 15, 0, 19, 20, 29, 16, 5, 12, 28, 37, 24, 28, 14, 6, 19, 29}, 1} 13:01:20 that's a bit silly - doesn't it use 0-9A-Za-whatever? 13:01:51 (on another note, Ramanujan's formula appears to require me to calculate sqrt(2)... so that's >two< trancendental numbers i have to conquer) 13:02:48 Theres BaseForm[] to do that, but it requires base to be <= 36 13:02:56 well phooey 13:03:00 mathematica sucks =p 13:04:57 i guess i'll just convert it with a program 13:05:07 *tap tap tap RUN* 13:07:35 Hmm. 13:07:36 3.63YQ4NHVKY4DdRM40QNNFGCHQCbEORGPLAbWf8D6JYYD82dO 13:07:36 289fZ9PDOO21BA34caJL32P1WJ69HAN5QIWF0JKTG5CSbOSE6J2 14:12:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:12:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:14:25 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 14:57:15 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:57:33 -!- jix has joined. 15:34:12 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:44:38 -!- ehird` has changed nick to test. 15:44:40 damnit 15:44:43 no unicode in usernames 15:44:46 -!- test has changed nick to ehird`. 15:53:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:53:37 ehird`: so, how are the cadaeic endevours progressing? 15:53:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:53:55 SimonRC: i calculated pi in base 43 to 100 places 15:53:59 doesn't look too elegant 15:54:20 i pasted it earlier today 15:54:22 i'll find it in my logs 15:54:47 Aug 11 13:14:40 3.63YQ4NHVKY4DdRM40QNNFGCHQCbEORGPLAbWf8D6JYYD82dO 15:54:47 Aug 11 13:14:40 289fZ9PDOO21BA34caJL32P1WJ69HAN5QIWF0JKTG5CSbOSE6J2 15:55:04 using 0-9A-Za- 15:55:06 or maybe p 15:55:07 whatever 15:57:13 a- 15:58:27 a-i 15:58:30 0-9A-Za-i 16:27:27 -!- ns_ has joined. 16:27:40 Hmm. 16:27:43 -!- ns_ has changed nick to ihope. 16:27:58 There's a letter for each of us! 16:29:12 =p 16:36:38 -!- digital_me has joined. 17:06:37 ehird`: hey! you know what cadaeic means? 17:07:04 a la Cadaeic Cadenza? 17:08:36 ...right? 17:08:42 so in your context, "relating to pi" 17:10:49 SimonRC: .. right? :p 17:11:45 yes 17:12:07 hooray, i got something right for a change 17:12:15 you JFGI, right? 17:25:17 hmm... is there always a base in which pi's n first decimals are the same? 17:25:27 for any n 17:25:35 yes 17:25:56 trivially 17:26:09 you must pick a base sufficientally close to pi 17:26:15 eh 17:26:28 sorry, an integer base 17:26:34 ah 17:27:17 infinity always goes over my head... can't say whether that's trivially true or trivially false 17:28:37 SimonRC: no, i didn't 17:28:54 if i was going to JFGI, i'd say "no", then google it, then say "ah yes, X" 17:29:22 oklokok: no, trivially false 17:29:24 but i don't know why 17:29:24 :p 17:30:45 i'd say trivially true 17:31:26 but trivially, it's trivially something. 17:31:39 trivially means nothing anyway 17:31:42 intuition is useless 17:32:06 ...orly 17:32:08 :P 17:32:40 hmm... 17:33:26 you aren't supposed to put fans on the computer screen? 17:33:41 the screen isn't looking that helthy right now... 17:33:48 it's flicking like crazy 17:39:32 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 17:39:37 what kind is it? 17:39:52 hi everybody 17:39:54 alternately, 17:39:56 & 17:41:43 "&"? 17:43:05 SimonRC: injoke 17:43:07 from.. a few days ago 17:43:21 i was a buggy irp interpreter and interpreted hi everybody as "fuck you" 17:43:25 because it is non-standard code 17:43:32 so i rewrote and optimized it multiple steps 17:43:37 heh 17:43:42 arriving eventually at the single character "&" as a portable, ambigious way to say hello to everyone 17:43:52 ok 17:44:05 unambigious would be better 17:51:14 -!- ihope__ has joined. 17:55:54 err, yes 17:55:55 unambigious 18:00:34 -!- ihope has quit ("Lost terminal"). 18:06:24 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 18:41:00 x = ++x + x++ 18:41:13 ouch 18:41:44 2x+1? 18:50:42 :p 18:51:25 logically reasoning that's: tmp = x; x += 1; x += 1; x = x + tmp; 18:51:27 or something 18:51:34 good obfuscation technique 18:51:37 in practice it's probably more simple and less intuitional 18:51:56 Let's see. 18:52:07 ++x increases x by 1 and returns x, right? 18:52:49 x+ (x+1)++ = x+x+2 = 2x+2 19:10:21 i don't think "logical reasoning" applies to C much. 19:11:00 (x+1)++ doesn't work; (x+1) isn't an lvalue 19:11:37 and a statement that preincrements x, postincrements it, *and* assigns to it is definitely undefined 19:12:04 x = ++x++; 19:12:06 :p 19:12:23 * pikhq wonders how a C parser would blow up on that 19:13:28 after programming haskell for a while, even "x=x+1" is creepy enough 19:13:59 lament: depends on which instance of Num is involved 19:14:04 on some instances it is defined 19:14:07 that could only mean "x equals infinity" 19:14:31 but more likely, haskell would simply crash trying to evaluate that. 19:14:34 pikhq: the parsed shouldn't have a problem; it's the compiling bit that has a problem 19:15:15 lament: if you define an "instance Num [()]" (i.e. unary) you could do it. 19:16:03 it doesn't matter what type it is, as long as addition is defined not to do anything 19:16:24 which is... not the usual meaning of addition 19:18:44 SimonRC: yeah, I know, it was to make things clearer. 19:18:56 why don't you try compiling it? :D 19:20:48 becauuse it won't prove anything 19:21:02 it doesn't really matter what an individual compiler will do with it 20:37:34 if you wanna obfuscate with ++ increments, use java 20:37:55 does D define evaluation order? 20:38:09 GregorR: your time to shine! 20:39:16 'fraid not. 20:39:21 o 20:39:22 There was a newsgroup thread on it. 20:39:24 ... 20:39:37 i'm not sure whether that's good, bad or neutral really 20:39:43 But Walters stance was that if he specified it, making a D->C compiler would be a HUGE PITA and nobody would do it right :) 20:39:45 just out of curiositr 20:39:47 *y 20:40:02 hmm... yeah, true 20:44:37 ;p 20:47:06 making a D->C compiler might be kinda hard if i recall correctly and D has functional language stuff 20:47:26 yeah 20:47:27 it would be 20:47:33 i don't really remember what it has now but i have a feeling it's gor first class functions 20:47:35 *goe 20:47:37 *go0t 20:47:38 d uses lots of crap that doesn't fit into c 20:47:38 ... 20:47:47 i'll try one more time 20:47:50 *got 20:50:59 *g0e0e0t00e0t0etatataitetet 20:51:11 and.. 20:51:14 C has first class functions too 20:51:19 they're called function pointers. :p 20:52:19 however D has, well, classes, for one, and templates. 20:52:32 and also really weird things like variadic functions using templates 20:52:54 int func(T ...)(int arg1, int arg2, T args) { args is a list of arguments of any type } if i remember correctly 20:52:56 that's just crazy 20:53:14 does D support currying? 20:53:35 i think so 20:53:41 i actually really like D 20:53:43 that would be almost impossible to C-ify efficiently 20:53:53 http://digitalmars.com/d/ look around; you might find currying 20:53:54 i like it too, even though i don't know it. 20:54:32 because i like C/C++, but C lacks stuff and in C++ a lot of stuff is done quite badly 20:54:36 i don't like it for many purposes, but: 20:54:45 if you need a compiled language, 20:54:55 and you don't need the speed and control of C 20:55:04 and you want something more conventional than a functional language 20:55:07 then D to the rescue 20:55:13 but that's a pretty narrow usage-case 20:57:51 you just listed a bunch of functional-language features D has 20:58:06 if you like functional features so much, perhaps you do want a functional language :) 20:58:38 hehe 20:58:46 well 20:58:49 d does have a usage-case 20:58:52 i just don't know what it is! :) 21:06:04 Anybody know of some fancy online things that convert a number into how to say it? 21:06:19 1523852 into "1 million 523 thousand 852", for example. 21:06:42 i did that once 21:06:43 Or "one million five hundred twenty-three thousand eight hundred fifty-two", even. 21:06:55 The number in question is 256! + 4^256. 21:07:54 but i would make a new one faster than find it 21:08:36 Mm, that number has 507 digits, I think. 21:14:31 ah, you wanna know what the big numbers are 21:14:43 american or british standard? 21:14:50 (not that i remember which is which...) 21:14:56 (american is the stupid one?) 21:15:10 Cool. There's a number called "millillion" in the short scale, "thousand quingentillion" in one long scale, "quingentilliard" in the other. 21:15:25 1,000,000,000 is a billion in the short, a thousand million or a milliard in the other. 21:16:43 if they're the same as in finnish, million, billion, trillion, quadrillion, quintillion, tillion, septillion, octillion... then i don't rememebr 21:16:45 *remember 21:20:25 -!- digital_me has quit ("leaving"). 21:49:02 -!- tokigun_ has joined. 21:49:06 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:00:06 billibillion 22:03:11 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 22:13:46 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 22:19:24 the british billion is obviously correct! 22:19:32 it uses the same progression as the previous terms! 22:19:36 :p[ 22:31:11 -!- Myeisha has joined. 22:38:36 -!- Myeisha has quit ("Leaving"). 22:39:12 oklokok: note that gcc C has closures, of all things 22:39:23 wait, wtf 22:39:26 since when 22:39:26 how come 22:39:27 what 22:39:27 where 22:39:28 why 22:39:28 when 22:39:34 Heww yeah it does :) 22:39:36 well yes, trye 22:39:37 how the fuck did you type that fast? 22:39:40 *true 22:39:45 but... i don't trust them... 22:39:46 :P 22:40:22 me? 22:40:25 me type fast? 22:40:29 or someone else 22:40:31 they aren't exactly portable 22:40:37 ehird`: you. 22:40:38 if it's fast typing you want 22:40:39 i could try 22:40:43 but i think it'd be a bit of a pain 22:40:46 since i can type faster than i think 22:40:46 you typed like w wds/sec 22:40:52 so a lot of gobbledegook would come out 22:40:57 * 4 22:41:10 SimonRC: that wasn't necessarily fast typing but just lag stacking the messages up... 22:41:12 what can I say, i spend too long on the computer :p 22:41:23 oklokok: no, those messages happened at around that rate 22:41:25 you were doing 180 w/min at one point 22:41:29 ehird`: how fast do you type? 22:41:35 I can't type fast reliably 22:41:44 oklokok: well - when trying to be fast? 22:41:45 i don't remember my speed now 22:41:47 yeah 22:41:52 i don't know. fast - but with a few errors, i'd imagine 22:41:59 i'm faster than normal ppl but i don't know how fast 22:42:00 generally i don't bother typing that fast :p 22:42:02 :P 22:42:11 but, still faster compared to most non-geeks :p 22:42:15 *fast 22:42:16 i mean, i may lose to geeks. 22:42:25 Me too 22:42:29 you're in #esoteric 22:42:31 i do own everyone @ #tietovisa 22:42:33 you are a geek, by definition 22:42:40 but those guys are normal ppl of course. 22:42:40 I keep missing the keys and hitting two at once 22:42:47 so... i own them at everything, naturally 22:43:04 hmm, someone give me two sentences or something and i'll try and type them fast 22:43:11 OTOH, I know what all the punctuation does 22:43:43 geek (n) 22:43:44 1. a circus performer who bites the heads off of living chickens or other fowl 22:43:44 2. an IRC user on the channel #esoteric on the FreeNode IRC network 22:44:00 a circus performer who bites the heads off of living chichens or other fowls 22:44:09 but i typoed a few times 22:44:13 and i'm a bit tired 22:44:13 GregorR: are those my two sentences? :p 22:44:27 also, i left a typo there. 22:44:34 Plural of fowl is fowl. 22:44:37 i do know 22:44:52 just haven't ever used the word, so i just know it in theory :) 22:45:06 i sometimes slip the wrong one in a situation like that 22:45:14 ...i mean when i haven't used it that much 22:45:29 3..2...1....go 22:45:37 a circus performer who bites the heads off of living chickens or other fowl 22:45:45 that was quite slow. not the easiest sentence to type :p long too 22:46:00 do you use dvorak? 22:46:05 no, qwerty 22:46:10 i've tried learning dvorak 22:46:30 gave up in frustration ("damnit; i can't code, i can't talk to people, all i can do is practice typing. i can't live like this!") 22:46:37 that's happened 3 times or so =p 22:46:41 one day i'll fully learn it 22:46:57 It took me ~2 weeks 22:47:28 yes; not being able to use anything that requires a keyboard for two weeks would put me in a semi-comatose state 22:49:38 ehird`: you are roughly 2 times faster than me in typing, unless i can noobishly look at my fingers 22:49:40 :P 22:49:41 :P 22:50:07 :p 22:50:16 I never really settled on a typing style 22:50:22 me neither 22:50:23 so how I type is horridly warped 22:50:38 i constantly change where i keep my hands 22:50:48 and i turn them very weirdly 22:51:05 basically: my whole hands are spread out in the initial position, my fingers do odd contortions to get to keys, if i can't get to one (muscle memory tells me if i can get to a specific key from a certain position...) then i move closer to it 22:51:17 So basically my hands bounce up and down and often jig from left to right 22:51:51 I've tried touch typing before, but this seems to be faster for me 22:54:09 i actually type finnish a lot faster 22:54:26 i get jammed at certain letters finnish doesn't use 22:54:34 well 22:54:38 fowl doesn't have a plural. 22:54:56 yeah, i actually know that too 22:55:03 i mean, i know that 22:55:48 i actually just type fast when using letters both finnish and english has 22:56:15 design a language that caters to this idea 22:56:28 yes, i'll call it asdjfkl 22:56:39 bingo 22:56:46 (that didn't exactly meet the demands, but you get the joke) 22:56:57 *requirements 22:56:59 like the finish equivalent of ETA 22:57:51 eta? 22:58:10 I'm working on a link 22:58:16 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ETA 22:58:21 damn esolang is slow today 22:59:29 etaoinshrdlu 22:59:39 * ehird` got that 22:59:41 :) 22:59:49 haha 23:00:30 in finnish... "tan..." i think 23:00:38 there needs to be a new subclass of esoteric language 23:00:46 but i haven't done any code breaking in finnish 23:00:49 so i don't remember 23:00:56 not just for the humour value - like Brainfuck and just about all of the ones on the wiki - but for the rael meaning of esoteric 23:01:12 an experimental language, not designed for practical use, but for more than just "ha ha ha ha!" 23:01:24 a question, as such. "what does this imply?" 23:01:47 um. 23:01:58 brainfuck isn't for humor value 23:02:04 it isn't serious though 23:02:04 brainfuck is for making a small compiler 23:02:07 yes, exactly 23:02:12 "oh look how small i can make this lollerskates" 23:02:13 and befunge is for making compilation difficult 23:02:18 yeah exactly 23:02:20 also, for cerebral sex value 23:02:29 that's not a "what do these rules imply?" 23:02:31 it's not an experiment 23:02:35 it's just silliness 23:02:39 of course 23:02:43 silliness is all well and good 23:02:43 brainfuck is one of the more utilitarian esolangs, really 23:02:45 ehird`: then consider SMETANA. 23:02:51 but perhaps the experiments deserve their own subclass 23:03:07 ehird`: "what do these rules imply" is inherent in all tarpits 23:03:14 "make this seemingly useless thing and make it work" 23:03:19 s/"make/"take 23:03:29 not really 23:03:33 you know what i'm trying to say 23:03:47 well 23:03:51 there're research languages 23:03:54 haskell is one 23:04:15 haskell is a good example! 23:04:20 but it's practical enough to not be esoteric 23:04:42 what i'm describing is a blend of haskell's research and experimental ethic with the esoteric any-idea-goes ethic 23:04:46 =p 23:05:23 befunge is an experiment in compilation :) 23:05:29 heh :p 23:05:40 much of research around esolangs is metaprogrammatic 23:05:44 wasn't it originally an experiment in the *lack* of compilation? :) 23:06:07 same thing 23:06:16 "here, take this thing and write an efficient compiler for it" 23:06:18 same with brainfuck 23:06:35 trying to make an optimizing brainfuck compiler is a pretty cool research topic 23:07:14 i have the ideas brewing in my head for an optimizing brainfuck compiler 23:07:21 so many damn things that can be optimized 23:07:27 the compiler source would be large, though 23:08:19 do it! 23:08:25 i could never think of anything useful :( 23:08:41 very hard to find invariants 23:08:52 some of which are obvious to a human 23:12:02 It's impossible to make a perfect optimization... thing. 23:12:14 It's easy to improve any optimizing compiler. 23:12:34 Assuming that you can compile the optimizing compiler into BF, that is. 23:13:13 -!- Svenstaro has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:13:14 ihope: thanks for stating the obvious :P 23:13:46 That's obvious? 23:13:49 oh 23:14:17 perhaps not, sounded obvious 23:14:29 perhaps it was just your maternal tone 23:14:58 Maternal tone? 23:15:05 (your mother, if that wasn't obvious enough) 23:15:13 Ah... um... 23:15:22 problem is, that approach won't make the optimizing compiler optimize better, it'll simply do so with less code, less memory and/or faster 23:15:25 Making a perfect optimiser is actually the halting problem all over again. 23:15:31 As in YOUR MOM? 23:15:44 ITYM "UR MOM" 23:15:51 ihope: exactly. 23:15:56 I didn't say to run the optimizing compiler on itself. 23:16:05 i was trying to make the joke a bit more sophisticated 23:16:08 obviously failed 23:16:13 SimonRC: are you certain? I think it should be possible to make a proof of some types of optimization in BF 23:16:27 then inductively we could try tackling harder problems 23:16:47 ah, but an optimiser that always produces the shortest program for a task requires solving the halting problem, I think 23:16:59 hm 23:17:03 "Run this program through the optimizing compiler. If the result is "+", do something else instead. If the result isn't A, clean up and increment the starting cell." 23:17:08 optimization in general is a superturing thing, that's obvious 23:17:12 Something along those lines. 23:17:31 well, my point was that you ought to be able to prove something is "perfectly" optimized once you have it 23:17:34 because it is impossible to calculate non-trivial property of programs 23:17:37 I remember that from uni 23:17:53 RodgerTheGreat: ah, but you can't be sure you can prove it 23:17:54 RodgerTheGreat: of course, but you can't make a program that does that for any program 23:17:58 Then you can improve the optimizer by making it recognize that exact program. :-) 23:18:00 i never said perfect optimizor 23:18:04 i just said a good one 23:18:05 a very good one 23:18:13 and i have quite a few bf optimizations in my head 23:18:17 some of which would require quite some code 23:18:49 "If this program's behavior is described by P, do something not described by P. Otherwise, do something described by P." 23:18:55 hehe 23:18:58 oklokok: if we come up with rules we can use for making that type of proof, proving a program is a matter of repeated application of those properties 23:19:01 Obviously invalid. 23:19:15 hmm... 23:19:24 then, building a proof becomes a mechanical process 23:20:04 H such that H(p(p),p) where p is "x => if H(x,x) loop" just raising an exception is invalid, right? 23:20:06 RodgerTheGreat: yes, but please don't tell me you think it can be done for any program. 23:20:07 Rules for doing what? 23:20:12 like, a SemanticallyInvalidProgram exception 23:20:32 ehird`: er, you mean making the halt-checker raise an exception upon receiving that? 23:20:33 i mean, mechanically, like have a program that does that for any bf program 23:20:37 ihope: yes 23:20:44 that's very very obviously superturing stuff 23:20:48 oklokok: well, can you give a counterexample where that type of approach would beak down? 23:20:53 Then it's not a halt-checker, because it doesn't give an answer in that case. 23:21:04 oklokok: waitwait we're talking about the halting problem here 23:21:19 ehird`: ? 23:21:22 -!- GregorR has changed nick to AndersB. 23:21:24 However Microsoft have found that you can prove/disprove halting of almost all useful programs 23:21:29 Let p x = if H(x,x) loop. Let H be the halting checker. H(p,p) is obviously invalid. 23:21:31 RodgerTheGreat: are you asking for an undecidable Turing machine? 23:21:47 However, H(p,p) could just raise an exception, since "p x = if H(x,x) loop" makes /no sense/ when called with p as an argument. 23:21:57 Therefore, a SemanticallyInvalid or similar exception could be raised 23:22:16 I think spotting that is equivalent to the halting problem too though 23:22:18 ehird`: "p x = if H(x,x) loop" is valid if H is valid. 23:22:36 no, because p(p) is a contradiction no matter what 23:22:47 therefore, theoretically a SemanticallyInvalid exception is fine, no? 23:22:50 Um... 23:22:55 Wait... 23:23:06 also, you could just add a wrapper that catches the exception and makes it equivalent to one of the other states... 23:23:10 Suppose H gives one of three answers: halts, doesn't halt, invalid. 23:23:13 I can see how a program that takes input, for example, could yield different results based on said input (or initial state), thus meaning we have to solve the halting problem to determine things like run time and memory usage 23:23:20 ihope: except H wouldn't return 23:23:26 What? 23:23:29 ihope: sure, H's return values must be [TRUE|FALSE] 23:23:34 What do you mean, it wouldn't return? 23:23:35 but exceptions unwind the call stack 23:23:46 H never finishes execution, therefore H is not an invalid halting checker :) 23:24:04 If in any case, \it never finishes executing, it's not a valid halting checker. 23:24:13 well it finishes 23:24:16 it just doesn't complete 23:24:22 Finishes but doesn't complete? 23:24:23 however, if we consider a subset of BF that does not take input (a uniform initial state), I don't see any reason we can't examine these mathematically 23:24:54 ihope: Sure 23:25:00 Um... 23:25:04 the criteria is "H must always terminate" 23:25:06 RodgerTheGreat: you are actually saying there could be a program that can optimize any bf program fully+ 23:25:07 ? 23:25:09 termination is not completion! 23:25:36 oklokok: accepting some minor caveats representing a subset of BF, I would say yes 23:25:39 oklokok: of course... if state is deterministic, you can spot infinite loops, and optimize away *everything* 23:25:44 So if I place a catch thing right around H which returns a third result upon exception, I've turned H into what I just said: a function giving "yes", "no", or "invalid". 23:26:05 how can you spot infinite loops? 23:26:37 "Yes" meaning it doesn't halt, etc. 23:26:45 Er, that it does. 23:26:52 So now P(x) = case H(x,x) of yes -> don't halt; no -> halt. 23:27:11 oklokok: well hey if you spot a [ and know that the current cell will be non-zero (you can know for sure, remember!) and it doesn't decrement it fully in the loop you've got yourself an infinite loop 23:27:14 If H(P,P) returns invalid, then obviously P *is* invalid, since it doesn't handle the "invalid" case. 23:27:40 Suppose we change P to this: P(x) = case H(x,x) of yes -> don't halt; no -> halt; invalid -> halt. 23:27:50 ehird`: what? 23:27:52 ihope: it's still an invalid program 23:27:58 ihope: since it makes no sense, and always contradicts 23:28:06 ihope: therefore H(P,P) is justified in returning invalid 23:28:14 If H(P,P) says "yes", it should have said "no". If it says "no", it should have said "yes". If it said "invalid", it should have said "yes". 23:28:15 how do you know whether it's "fully decremented" in the loop? 23:28:25 (logic being that when H returns invalid, all bets are off and dealing with the program you sent it with that input is meaningless and hopeless) 23:28:41 (So "invalid" is never a wrong answer if indeed it leads to a contradiction 23:28:42 Hmm... 23:29:04 since P(P) will always lead to a contradiction, H(P,P) can return invalid and no matter how P(P) behaves, H is right 23:29:10 ehird`: suppose H can be implemented in BF. This means that P can be implemented in BF as well. 23:29:19 ihope: Yes and? 23:29:43 That is, BF without I/O, and everything unbounded. 23:29:47 The only way a BF program can be invalid is if it has unmatched brackets. 23:29:53 no 23:29:56 Yes. 23:29:57 invalid can be semantics too 23:30:02 and P certainly has invalid semantics 23:30:16 ehird`: are you saying you can alway detect an infinite loop in brainfuck? 23:30:21 if there's no io 23:30:22 Suppose H is valid, then. 23:30:24 oklokok: yes 23:30:26 *always 23:30:27 what 23:30:31 you can't be serious 23:30:35 oklokok: well... mostly 23:30:37 ... 23:30:41 no. 23:30:44 yes 23:30:48 see the discussion i'm having with ihope 23:30:50 how ? 23:30:52 okay 23:30:53 ihope: Yes, H is always valid 23:30:55 i shall 23:30:57 H exists and is valid. P just runs H, then does a simple thing, so it must be valid as well. 23:30:58 H(H,X) is always YES 23:31:02 ihope: But - no 23:31:17 Since H knows that P is calling H with nonsensical arguments, leading to a contradiction 23:31:43 (H is already going to do crazy high-level analysis anyway, detecting semantic errors like that is hardly hard for it - it's not limited to "oo look a +!") 23:31:46 it sounded like a boring halting problem conversation, can you like make a summary for me? 23:32:03 If H is being called with nonsensical arguments, then it's invalid in that case, contradicting the assumption that H is valid. 23:32:03 -!- AndersB has changed nick to GregorR. 23:32:20 ihope: well. No. 23:32:28 ehird`: it sounds like you're saying my proof of P => Q is wrong because P => !Q. 23:32:33 Just because a program calls H in a way that makes H return an invalid answer doesn't mean H is invalid 23:32:42 BECAUSE, "invalid" means that all bets are off 23:32:50 Oh, let's be formal. 23:32:59 More formal, that is. 23:33:16 invalid means "oh look this makes no sense! oh look a flying pig! you can't count on me for this program,input pair any more! you make no sense! i am pink and fluffy! wheeeee" 23:33:20 heh. less formal :_ 23:33:21 *:) 23:34:32 if our BF subset has output capabilities (but no input), and we define a "useful" program as one that produces output and halts, it is absolutely possible to create a "perfect" optimization, in accordance with our definition of "perfect" in terms of runtime, memory usage and code length 23:35:04 Statement P = H is valid for all inputs, returning "halts", "doesn't halt", or "invalid". H(x,y) returns "halts" if x applied to y halts, "doesn't halt" if x applied to y doesn't halt, "invalid" if x applied to y is not valid. H can be implemented in BF with no I/O. 23:35:22 ihope: see that isn't what invalid means 23:35:40 You don't agree with my formulation of statement P? 23:35:50 What do you want to change? 23:35:52 invalid means literally nothing. it means that nothing is guaranteed, it means nothing makes sense, it means it's confused 23:35:55 it means that you can't count on it 23:36:05 ehird`: so basically... you are saying any infinite loop in a brainfuck loop can be noticed... so you are saying the halting problem can be solved? 23:36:09 also, i hate formalness :p 23:36:21 ehird`: being formal is what mathematics is built from. 23:36:26 oklokok: No - I am 99.9999999999999999999999999% likely to be incorrect for another reason 23:36:33 oklokok: I just haven't found that reason yet 23:36:50 ihope: I have no idea how to describe "invalid" in formal-talk 23:36:52 you did say any infinite loop can be noticed 23:36:56 the halting problem can be solved trivially on a machine without time or memory constraints 23:37:27 ehird`: I advise you to come back when you come up with a formal way of doing that... 23:37:38 RodgerTheGreat: and that solution always halts? 23:37:45 RodgerTheGreat: you are wrong 23:37:48 eh 23:37:57 what ihope said, that's a nicer way to say it 23:38:11 -!- QS_E has joined. 23:38:21 ihope: hey, invalid was originally an exception 23:38:29 ihope: the problem with your logic here lies in the concept of infinity 23:38:47 Oh boy, the concept of infinity. 23:38:50 which also means that if P were to be called, unless it was >deeply, deeply evil (doesn't matter anyway - invalid = boom)< it would stop executing 23:38:50 given an infinite amount of time and memory, here's how you solve the halting problem 23:39:04 thus the universe is saved and none of these sticky problems happen 23:39:04 ehird`: with a catch statement, you can turn exception into return value. With a case statement and a throw statement, you can do the reverse. 23:39:13 that's not the point 23:39:15 ehird`: are you, or are you not saying any infinite loop in brainfuck can be noticed? 23:39:36 you first said they can be, then something weird 23:39:40 about percentages :P 23:39:41 simply store the entire state of the program each clock cycle, and each clock cycle, check if the program has repeated a state 23:39:57 repeat until infinity 23:39:57 ehird`: therefore, the concepts are equivalent. 23:40:13 RodgerTheGreat: it's possible for a program to never halt but still not repeat a state. 23:40:25 ihope: it is? show me a prorgam 23:40:26 because a computer is a finite state machine (but, due to infinite memory, our halting-solver is clearly not), we will halt. 23:40:31 Assuming that "program" means something Turing-complete, rather than an FSM... 23:40:40 ehird`: +[>+] 23:40:51 The tape is constantly changing, and it never returns to a state it was in previously. 23:41:15 +[+] if the cell's capacity is unbounded 23:41:15 True 23:41:17 that's not a computer, it's a turing machine 23:41:24 a computer has bounded memory 23:41:30 RodgerTheGreat: indeed. 23:41:33 a turing machine does not 23:41:36 the halting problem is for turing machines 23:42:02 There are other halting problems. 23:42:19 RodgerTheGreat: of course you can solve the halting problem on a fsm :P 23:42:27 But the one for Turing-complete stuff is the one we normally mean when we say "halting problem". 23:42:29 that's not what you said earlier 23:42:49 I'm getting there 23:43:31 I shall posit that if we extend this concept, an ISM can determine wether an ISM halts in infinite time 23:43:42 -!- QS_E has quit. 23:44:38 i do believe that with my definiton of H the halting problem is kinda-sorta-solvable 23:44:39 well 23:44:45 if you find out how to do the actual halting-detection 23:44:54 that's a bigger problem than paradoxes :) 23:45:03 ehird`: that is kinda the hard part 23:45:14 can an ISM solve the halting problem of a superturing machine in uncountable time? :P 23:45:15 the P function is kinda just a last blow 23:45:39 i have no idea what that'd even mean... but my intuition tells me that's true. 23:46:15 oklokok: somehow, I think you mean something like time omega*2+c... 23:46:29 oklokok: well... if solving the halting problem on an ISM makes something superturing, then... yes? 23:46:39 ehird`: "kinda-sorta-solvable"? 23:46:52 ihope: :) 23:46:54 Er, oops, am I turning into TRWBW? :-P 23:47:06 ehird`: so you are saying you can just make the halting problem solver function if you just make it notice paradoxes and behave differently on them? 23:47:20 you do understand noticing the paradox is superturing 23:47:32 oklokok: maybe -- you'll have to write code to actually detect inf. loops and paradoxes first :p 23:47:35 superturing? 23:47:37 He's annoyed me somewhat with his "give me a formal definition of the real numbers" stuff. 23:47:39 clearly impossible, of course 23:47:55 I can write a halt-checker in... um... 23:47:57 formal definition of the real numbers, EH 23:47:59 ihope: wow, is he too lazy to look it up for himself? 23:48:00 link to metamath.org 23:48:30 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_of_real_numbers :p 23:48:55 ehird`: no, I think he knows it. Somebody says something informal (and incorrect) about the real numbers and gives an informal proof, then he asks them for a formal definition of the real numbers, despite the fact that they probably don't know one. 23:49:20 who wants to help me build a halting oracle? 23:49:27 metamath is cooler 23:49:46 http://us.metamath.org/mpegif/5oa.html 23:50:12 Ooh, cool. 23:50:43 wow 23:51:27 i want that on a t-shirt 23:51:39 and then on the back something like "Math is fun!" 23:52:09 Some might say that only an American could wear that on a T-shirt. 23:52:17 why? 23:52:21 I don't know how large Americans actually tend to be, though. 23:52:33 the whole idea of linking to every used axiom and definition is pretty awesome 23:53:04 yeah 23:53:09 look at the proof for 2+2=4 23:53:40 it represents stitching mathematics into an obviously cohesive whole and very clearly presents how everything fits together 23:53:42 http://us.metamath.org/mpegif/2p2e4.html 23:53:53 an awesome use of hypertext 23:54:01 except for the fact that it makes your brain hurt 23:55:02 proof that 2+2=4: 1 + n -> 0 + Sn -> Sn. Therefore, 1 + 2 -> 3. Sn + m -> S(n + m). Therefore, 2 + 2 = 4 23:55:05 is that good enough :p 23:55:29 ->? 23:55:38 neither 1+2 nor 3 is a wff 23:55:59 informal symbol 23:56:13 i meant "is equal to", or really "with expanded functions is" 23:56:29 ok 23:57:23 Just say that 2 = 1+1 and 4 = 1+1+1+1 and you get it by associativity. 23:57:41 of course, but then you need to prove associativity 23:58:00 Not if your axioms include associativity! 23:58:18 ok, here's my proof in kinda-formalness: 23:58:25 x + 0 = x 23:58:35 ihope: well, then my axioms include 2+2=4 23:58:37 IN YOUR FACE 23:58:53 Heh. 23:58:55 Sx + y = y + (x + y) 23:58:58 wait, that's wrong isn't it 23:58:59 oh whatever 23:59:01 you know, + 23:59:01 Yup. 23:59:03 that nice function thing 23:59:06 SO 23:59:17 Maybe we should define Sx + y = y + (x + y)! 23:59:17 1 + x = 0 + Sx 23:59:25 0 + x = x 23:59:30 1 + x = Sx 23:59:35 1 + 2 = S2 23:59:35 where ! is the factorial! 23:59:37 S2 = 3 23:59:41 2 + 2 = 2 + (1 + 2) = 2 + (2 + (0 + 2)) = something. 23:59:45 Sx + y = S(x + y) 23:59:45 that could be.. difficult though 23:59:51 S1 = 2 23:59:55 2 + 2 = 4 2007-08-12: 00:00:06 because the factorial is based on multiplication which is based on addition 00:00:29 is my proof nice :p 00:00:46 No, mine is nicer. 00:00:50 Axiom: 2+2=4 00:00:53 Therefore, 2+2=4. 00:01:21 HOW TO PROVE ANYTHING: 00:01:21 But wait! 00:01:28 q => p 00:01:30 q. 00:01:32 You don't have x |- x as an axiom! 00:01:33 therefore, o 00:01:35 *p 00:01:44 Yay, modus ponens! 00:02:06 P, THEREFORE P 00:02:11 P 00:02:13 i win 00:02:13 I think, therefore I think! 00:02:20 I think! 00:02:27 I win, therefore I win. 00:02:29 I win. 00:02:33 Therefore, I win. 00:02:35 I win. 00:02:48 No, i Always win... because... eh... LOOOK IT'S SUPERMAN 00:02:54 my lungs are gasping for air, and telling you people to keep the funny down 00:02:55 thanks 00:03:09 I think, therefore I think! 00:03:17 i shouldn't find that hilarious 00:03:18 I am, therefore I win. 00:03:19 but i dooooo 00:03:32 I think, therefore you unexist. 00:03:46 * ehird` disappears now! 00:03:50 Hmm, something I find hilarious... 00:03:53 Captain Shakespeare? 00:04:05 Captain shakespeare will rescue thou. 00:04:20 Enforced is another law. 00:04:26 Brought is justice. 00:04:49 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:05:15 Obey Newton's laws or face elongation! 00:07:48 Thee, not thou! 00:08:28 -!- calamari has joined. 00:08:29 ye 00:08:37 hi 00:08:40 OPEN! YOUR MOUTH! 00:09:35 OPEN! NO, YOUR MOUTH! 00:09:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:09:55 oerjan: i had a question for you 00:09:58 Kung Pow: Enter the Fist<3 00:10:01 just thought you might wanna know. 00:10:01 Best. Movie. EVER 00:10:21 oh? 00:13:11 This? http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kung_pow_enter_the_fisthot_shots/ 00:13:40 And will it be as good as this? 00:13:43 Er, this: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kung_pow/ 00:14:24 Just like Daddy Day Camp isn't as good as this: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/daddy_day_care/ 00:16:54 oklokok: what is it? 00:17:02 oerjan: glad you asked 00:17:04 i do not remember. 00:17:06 :D 00:17:40 i cannot see you mentioning my name in the logs since i was last on 00:17:48 hmm 00:17:51 ah 00:17:55 now i remember 00:18:02 it was about pi 00:18:23 that base with equal digits thing? 00:18:32 for any n, is there a base in which pi's first n digits are the same 00:18:32 yeah 00:18:38 integer base 00:18:53 Yes. 1. 00:18:55 including the initial 3? 00:18:58 no 00:19:00 3.14159... 00:19:02 -!- immibis has joined. 00:19:05 The first digit is the same as itself. 00:19:19 ihope: that's not what i mean 00:19:25 is there such a base for any n. 00:19:28 not some n 00:19:46 "every" 00:19:57 err yeah 00:20:10 Yay for any. 00:20:23 any means either of those i guess 00:20:30 Indeed. 00:20:33 any is one of english's subtle points 00:21:23 Is there a case where it definitely doesn't mean "some"? 00:21:44 (Help) I need anybody... 00:21:58 well, it is clearly impossible to include the 3, because 3.333... must approach 3 as the base gets large 00:22:08 yeah 00:22:13 i understood that much 00:22:27 so i just mean the decimals 00:22:30 err 00:22:35 hmm... is that the correct term 00:23:01 so let's look at 3.xxxxx... in base b 00:23:11 Just the fractional part? 00:23:15 Or possibly the decimal part? 00:23:28 fractional part 00:24:57 that's 3+x/(b-1) 00:25:11 hmm 00:25:53 we must have x < b-1 00:26:21 fortunately that's what we want 00:26:55 since pi can be approximated as close as we want by a rational number, we can get that as close to pi as we want 00:27:27 follohmm 00:27:32 oh 00:27:38 "follohmm" 00:28:28 i actually thought you either couldn't tell me the answer or couldn't explain it to me, but that's actually pretty obvious 00:28:57 so thanks, though i was actually telling you i had a question to you even though i didn't remember it just for the heck of it. 00:28:59 however there is a problem in that the closeness may still be too big compared to b 00:29:06 hmm 00:29:14 whut 00:29:45 ah 00:29:56 i.e. we could risk that 3.x is really close to pi, but still x is not the correct _next_ digit 00:31:23 because the approximation is still less precise than 1/b^2 00:31:43 for a while everything seemed so clear 00:31:55 and then you had to make me realize i hadn't gotten it. 00:32:01 :P 00:32:37 this might be related to a pretty weird theorem i (vaguely ;)) recall about pi - let me look it up 00:33:03 :PP 00:36:32 actually, what i'd like to know even more is whether that is true for *any* irrational number 00:37:04 ok 00:37:16 but 00:37:23 pi would be a good start 00:37:51 because that's *a* irrational number, and it's one of the most researched ones prolly 00:39:36 it is not however among the ones that are most easy to find digit properties for 00:39:44 hmm... yeah 00:39:59 for sqrt n you have a formula to get one digit at a time right? 00:40:09 i vaguely recall something like that 00:40:14 or perhaps was just sqrt2 00:40:40 there is an algorithm for calculating square roots, it's not a formula i think 00:41:31 well yeah, algorithm, but anyway, a simple way to get digit by digit 00:41:46 Digit by digit? 00:42:05 I know how to approximate it arbitrarily well. 00:42:08 err like get the digits one by one 00:42:14 Yeah, I know. 00:48:35 i cannot seem to find the theorem but it _might_ imply you cannot get better than 17 digits for pi 00:50:34 oh 00:50:39 how boring 00:52:16 yes 00:52:28 there is a digit extraction algorithm for sqrt(n)... 00:53:03 very tedious though, I've tried it with pen and paper and after 5 digits or so it starts to get messy 00:56:21 * oerjan gives up trying to find it. 00:56:43 heh 00:56:57 it's _something_ like: |pi - p/q| cannot be less than 1/q^17, but how the heck do you google for that? 00:57:45 * oerjan suddenly gets the brilliant idea of googling for pi-p/q :) 01:00:25 ah, that found http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/01_incoming/approximable 01:01:22 > I know that for irrational a there are infinitely many integer p and q such 01:01:22 > that |a - p/q| < q^-2 01:01:22 > and that in general you cannot do better than the exponent -2. 01:01:55 (and mentioned later, the golden ratio is the worst) 01:03:52 okay... so the answer to my question is "no" 01:04:12 ehird`'s intuition beat mine then. 01:04:35 for pi, http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/69162.html says q^-42 is the best known bound 01:08:15 but the first link implies it may really be around 8 01:14:35 wouldn't be the worst approximation ever =) 01:17:05 that is probably graham's number 01:20:24 * oerjan looks it up instead of blathering yet another vague recall 01:20:26 "Ramsey-theory experts believe the actual Ramsey number for this problem is probably 6, making Graham's number perhaps the worst smallest-upper-bound ever discovered." 01:20:46 (although my vague recall _was_ right) 01:21:48 oh. "More recently Geoff Exoo of Indiana State University has shown (in 2003) that it must be at least 11 and provided evidence that it is larger." 01:22:45 it would be ironic if someone proved the actual answer _is_ of the order of Graham's number 01:23:02 hmm 01:23:09 dilemma dilemma dilemma 01:23:34 I am creating an imaginary character for online use... 01:24:01 I am not sure whether it should give any hint that it is imaginary. 01:25:13 Since I have my real self in the same online group (though no connection has been suggested) I think I will keep it completely in-character. 01:25:19 advice? 01:25:38 darn, i thought you were talking about unicode characters :D 01:25:38 * SimonRC goes, but his client is still listening and logging. 01:41:39 a variation of the tree-in-a-forest problem: 01:41:51 if we keek SimonRC, does it matter that his client is "listening and logging"? 01:41:53 *kick 01:47:41 blargh why can't msn messenger record webcam... god i hate that program 01:49:33 can skype do it? 01:49:43 my msn can't do webcam at all (not supported on mac) 01:50:19 are there programs that use the messenger protocol and can record webcam? 01:50:39 i can't exactly tell ppl i wanna record to change to scype... 01:50:49 (recording my gf, don't worry) 01:52:15 i guess it doesn't matter who i'm gonna record, why the fuck doesn't this thing support recording 01:52:27 like... blargh 01:53:13 i don't know anything about scype 01:53:18 *skype 01:53:34 i assume it allows recording but no one i know uses it 01:54:44 -!- ihope__ has joined. 01:56:54 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:56:56 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 02:04:30 i'm back 02:04:37 what did i miss? 02:04:42 Um... 02:04:59 Nothing, although I can add something to miss. 02:05:00 You missed it! It was the most amazing thing ever! 02:05:17 * pikhq proves the stupidity of argument ad Hitler. . . 02:05:42 Hitler thought that eating meat was terrible. Since Hitler was evil, vegitarianism is evil. QED. 02:05:45 :p 02:06:10 did he really think eating meat was terrible? 02:06:19 * pikhq tries to find a citation for that 02:06:19 Maybe sort of. 02:06:22 he couldn't eat meat, a medical thing 02:06:40 and that thinking eating meat is terrible thing is just propaganda 02:06:42 I guess that's a form of thinking it terrible. 02:06:44 {{fact}} 02:06:57 (i'm just repeating stuff i heard when i heard this conversation last...) 02:07:01 * ihope holds up a sign that says {{fact}} 02:07:20 Now to bring it to some political speech. 02:07:24 * pikhq holds up a sign saying {{fact}}{{fact}} 02:07:41 Prove that you need a citation! 02:07:51 {{npov}} 02:08:00 (or something like that) 02:09:20 Hmm. Apparently he ranged from "Meat is evil" to "Kill that cow, damn it, I'm hungry!" 02:09:48 that's how the deranged range 02:10:19 * pikhq nods 02:10:37 (citation: [[Vegitarianism of Adolf Hitler]]) 02:11:23 fix link (Vegitarianism -> Vegetarianism) 02:11:35 Sorry. 02:13:14 * ihope cites WP:V 02:17:33 -!- cherez has joined. 03:31:09 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 03:46:02 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:13:09 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:17:55 -!- wellons has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:33:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:45:10 some of you guys might like this: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/watchers.png 04:47:02 a bit too hard to see the texts at this hour :P 04:48:02 (they're reeeeeeeeeally small) 05:03:11 make like a glass and magnify 05:03:42 magnnity mag 05:04:59 i wonder if tabs could be abstracted more 05:06:41 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 05:37:48 real numbers fail 05:38:05 everything should be rational 05:38:34 The rational numbers are a *subset* of the reals. . . 05:38:42 duh... 05:38:59 One would assume that a real would succeed at the same things that rationals do. 05:39:17 * pikhq just wants to be able to work with the set of *numbers* in his code. ;p 05:39:58 except reals are ugly 05:40:06 Why not just use improbable numbers? 05:40:07 scheme lets you do that 05:40:45 You're right. sqrt(2) is ugly. :p 05:41:35 you don't need to be sqrt(2), just arbitrarily close to it 05:43:30 58/41 05:43:33 You want to know why I want to be able to do reals? 05:43:47 I want infinite storage, dammit. 05:43:55 infinite storage? 05:43:57 or 17412268/12312333 05:44:06 infinite storage is impossible 05:44:13 immibis: A real can store every number between -oo and oo. 05:44:13 immibis: prove it 05:44:18 Let me dream, at least. 05:44:40 do you know anyone capable of making an infinitely big hard drive 05:44:44 no, a real can store every _real_ number between -oo and oo 05:44:48 is it possible to get an infinite amount of iron 05:44:51 Oh, right. 05:44:58 and turn it into an infinite amount of bit 05:44:59 and turn it into an infinite amount of bits 05:45:07 which can store infinite data? 05:45:18 Is when I'm dreaming. 05:45:20 immibis: do you know anyone who has written an algorithm to solve an NP complete problem in P time? 05:45:23 no? 05:45:27 therefore, it must be impossible 05:46:02 a what in what time? 05:46:17 O_O 05:46:27 'night, guys 05:46:42 pikhq: you can spend your whole life gathering iron and silicon to make a hard drive and never get an infinite amount. 05:46:44 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:47:11 every living thing in the universe could spend their whole lives gathering iron and silicon for you and never get an infinite amount. 05:47:23 bsmntbombdood: are you sure that's a valid proof? 05:47:42 oklokok: of course it's not, i was demonstrating immibis wrongness 05:47:44 immibis: I *want* reals, I'm not saying that it's at all possible. ;) 05:48:05 bsmntbombdood: sorry, i misunderstood what your point was 05:48:08 anyone who doesn't know the definition of P and NP is not qualified to speak about impossibility, period. >:) 05:48:27 heh 05:48:35 Nothing is impossible, just improbable :P 05:48:53 P and NP = probable and not probable? 05:48:58 eh no 05:49:03 Solving the halting problem for turing machines with a turing machines... 05:49:09 omg that's like the basicest basics 05:49:18 " Nothing is impossible, just improbable :P" 05:49:55 immibis: you gotta learn some basics, it hurts me if you don't know what those are :P 05:50:03 (deterministic) polynomial and non-deterministic polynomial 05:50:10 It hurts this high-schooler as well. 05:51:47 -!- immibis has left (?). 05:52:21 Maybe he left to learn? 05:52:26 :D 05:52:36 * pikhq thought it was polynomial and non-polynomial. . . XD 05:52:49 * oklokok too, but let's not tell oerjan 05:53:12 Of course, I kinda assume 'deterministic' for both. 05:53:31 * oerjan crosses pikhq and oklokok off his list of people qualified to speak of impossibility >:) 05:53:42 :P 05:53:45 oerjan: I'm 17, and willing to admit mistakes. 05:54:20 And, apparently, I'm wrong. 05:54:21 pikhq: i guess he'll be waiting for your enlightenment with an eraser in his hand 05:54:31 AUM 05:54:42 i'm 18, too late for me. 05:54:54 my brain is sealed 05:54:57 When 18, I also plan to be willing to admit mistakes. 05:55:23 Although I'll probably still be doing stupid stuff like quines. 05:55:36 i've been watching so much friends this week i can't really think at all right now. 05:55:54 * pikhq doesn't really *watch* TV 05:56:11 * oerjan doesn't either 05:56:31 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/quine.c My first quine in C, btw. 05:56:40 i just watched a pretty decent tv series 05:56:41 me neither, i just dl'd all friends and decided to watch them all. 05:58:20 and friends was pretty good in the the beginning 05:58:42 i like the last episodes most 05:58:52 last? 05:58:53 Thoughts on my stupid bit of Quinery? 05:59:03 i mean 05:59:35 like un-firstish episodes. 06:01:39 pikhq: that's a pretty normal quine :P 06:01:41 hard to say more 06:01:56 i never made a quine in C 06:02:11 because i'd've'd to do it like that... and it seemed boring 06:02:40 It's also my first quine not taking advantage of Tcl's introspection. . . 06:03:22 heh 06:03:24 10 LIST 06:03:30 ((lambda (x) `(,x ,'x)) (lambda (x) `(,x ,'x))) 06:04:04 Hmm, never mind. . . 06:04:40 My quine actually just rewrites the proc command in Tcl to store the "code" argument. . . 06:04:53 bsmntbombdood: you miss a ' i think 06:05:03 oops 06:06:39 also, i think it should be ',x 06:06:45 [lambda x {$x $x}] [lambda x {$x $x}] 06:07:05 oh blargh 06:07:07 >>> ul i 06:07:08 -> i 06:07:11 i are type bad 06:07:11 quine! 06:07:18 ... 06:07:28 quine "quine" 06:40:13 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:22:19 -!- Svenstaro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:27:28 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:33:42 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:17:48 very bad quality music video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=A4cFYmsuZ60 08:19:17 why is it notable? 08:20:11 * puzzlet_ watches 08:28:27 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:28:46 8 days till school 08:31:06 3 weeks for me :) 08:34:57 :( 08:38:45 -!- sebbu has quit ("reboot"). 08:51:53 -!- jix has joined. 09:26:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:41:56 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:30:45 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:31:09 -!- jix has joined. 11:29:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:33:35 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 11:44:02 school in 2 days 11:51:14 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 12:06:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:35:58 -!- jix has joined. 12:51:59 10 days for me 13:22:34 * SimonRC likes SG-1. 13:23:30 pikhq: your quine is like the Thompson quine but ugly 13:27:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 13:30:40 what quine 13:39:42 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:41:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:57:56 " http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/quine.c My first quine in C, btw." 14:36:19 SG-1 ftw 14:48:56 sp3tt: being such good sci-fi, the Scifi Channel aren;t showing it. 14:48:59 :-P 14:49:13 too bad it was cancelled :) 14:49:15 :(* 14:49:33 I only have 10 episodes left 14:50:07 huh? 14:50:20 wait, are you following it on SkyOne/Two? 14:50:38 no, I'm downloading 15:34:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:53:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 15:54:05 bah 15:55:36 okokookko 15:57:07 pikhq: that quine sucks 15:58:10 int main(){char *s="int main(){char *s=%c%s%c;}printf(s,37,s,37,10);return 0;}%c";printf(s,37,s,37,10);return 0;} 15:58:10 :) 16:02:01 -!- SimonRC has changed nick to Outlook_Express_. 16:02:11 -!- Outlook_Express_ has changed nick to Sick_bastard. 16:02:33 -!- Sick_bastard has changed nick to SimonRC. 16:05:21 -!- ihope__ has joined. 16:05:39 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 16:24:34 Wait, did pikhq cite another wiki article 14 hours and 14 minutes ago? 16:27:38 ehird`: ITYM 34 16:27:49 er 16:27:50 yes 16:34:47 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 16:35:05 hi everyone 16:37:25 how offensive 16:38:30 RodgerTheGreat: i'm definately not going to 'hi' everyone, i have *some* decency 16:38:43 that'd be like an unbelievable flood 16:38:56 that's why I just use the macro 16:42:09 you did not use the macro! 16:42:11 the macro is & 16:42:13 you said hi everyone 16:52:04 hmm 16:52:10 someone give me an interesting fact about... base 21! 16:56:57 * SimonRC goes to watch SG-1. 16:57:22 21 in base 21 is 10. 16:57:49 !!!!!!! 16:57:58 1/20 in base 21 is 0.{1} 16:58:13 * SimonRC goes to watch SG-1. 16:58:21 sam hughes says that a good plot for a first-contact story would be "hello, we are working in base 10 today. what about you?" and i agree. 16:58:24 :p 16:58:42 aliens: "what do you mean pi starts 3, 1, 4? you are evidently fools! goodbye!" 16:58:46 interesting 16:58:52 17:00:56 the example my math teacher always gave was that a group of aliens come to earth, claiming peaceful intentions. To confirm that the aliens are telling the truth, they ask the aliens how many of them there are on the ship 17:01:18 the aliens respond 103, but when the humans count them, they find 67. 17:01:32 knowing the aliens must be liars, the humans proceed to destroy the aliens 17:01:56 but then, as a doctor is examining one of the corpses, he starts to look very worried 17:02:12 "Sir," he says, "The aliens only have four fingers on each hand!" 17:02:24 hehehe 17:02:57 poor guys :p 17:03:06 "And that's why a proper understanding of base notation is vital to the future of humanity" 17:04:23 truly inspiring 17:04:37 i like base 100 17:04:42 or maybe base 1000 17:04:45 yeah, he was a pretty good teacher 17:05:14 there is at least a googol atoms in the universe right 17:05:18 its googolplex that overflows it? 17:05:26 known universe 17:05:37 argh 17:05:41 well 17:05:47 i was thinking "base googol" 17:05:48 :) 17:06:03 "g_64 is only 384729834723942394 digits!" 17:06:08 "and then some!" 17:09:20 you know, i've just realised how much i hate idioms 17:09:24 die, idioms. die! 17:10:18 idioms are peanuts to dogma and dead metaphors 17:10:41 well i hate everything that isn't logical in language! 17:10:41 :( 17:11:11 dogma isn't logical, and dead metaphors degrade the beauty and cleverness of language 17:12:05 INDEEEED 17:12:54 the odd thing about lojban is how unalike it is to other languages 17:13:01 it isn't based in a SVO/VSO, etc. structure, for one 17:13:10 "selbri" is a pretty unique idea when it comes to languages 17:13:22 lojban is a lot like most languages imo 17:13:24 :| 17:13:32 not reall 17:13:33 y 17:13:35 only place structure is different 17:14:03 i mean, argument place matters in lojban, whereas it rarely does in normal alngaueg 17:14:05 langs 17:14:45 ooo i like quaternary 17:14:53 does quaternary have many interesting properties 17:15:33 the numeral system. that is 17:16:45 ON THE SUBJECT OF MATHEMATICS: 17:16:47 it's a pretty hot system 17:17:03 here is a stupid and crazy New Age-esque page on pi: http://www.spiritart.org/Numbers/Pi/ 17:17:07 "Pi can be considered a very mystic number, as it bridges the linear world with the curved or circular world. Pi itself may be an incredible relevant value for the physical universe, and therefore this page is dedicated for it. " 17:17:33 "I cannot write about this yet, but I feel Prime-Numbers are living beings, not as we imagine them as deceased beings for a form and ideas of being human, but they, as all numbers, are conscious beings; and there is a way to address Prime-Numbers in an affirmation and discover their hidden nature which has not been yet discover or cover by the solely mathematical approach. As soon I find reference material or by my own experience I will 17:17:33 include this here on this page. " 17:20:14 "Especially the fibonacci-numbers with their strong connection to nature you can look at them as a prayer build by the names (invocation) of the names of the numbers making up the sequence. As we address human with their names, the fibonacci- numbers already manifested themselves in so many ways, that when we invoke them we honor and acknowledge their presence in all their manifestations. 17:20:14 One, One, Two, Three, Five, Eight, Thirteen, Twenty-One, . . . " 17:20:45 just absolute crazy stuff 17:20:47 but it's hilarious 17:23:12 LOOOOOL 17:27:54 :) 17:31:35 Hmm, lojban seems fun. Anyone got a textbook? 17:32:47 yes 17:32:50 google lojban for beginners 17:34:30 http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/book1.html 17:34:32 i'm reading this 17:34:35 found it 17:44:39 "Pi also is considered a transcendental number (a mathematical term), it means it cannot be expressed by a ratio of two integers." No it doesn't. 17:45:03 Well, it does imply that. 17:45:12 But it's not what the word itself means. 17:47:58 Indeed. 17:48:20 sqrt(2) isn't transcendental, but it cannot be expressed by a ratio of two integers. 17:49:46 Transcendental \subset J \subset R \subset C \subset H 17:49:56 \subset O 17:53:52 Oh my. 17:53:58 What are those? 17:54:16 J irrational, H quaternion, O octonion? 17:55:16 You know, really, the number 7 is only needed for things like calculus and 1/7. 17:55:40 Elsewhere, you only need 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 17:56:18 And the occasional extension. 17:56:51 Like x such that x^7 + x + 1 = 0. 17:57:00 (And by x^7, I mean x*x*x*x*x*x*x.) 17:57:19 Er, no. Not plus but minus x. 18:17:04 7 is evil! :p 18:25:02 x^7 - x +1 = 0? 18:26:34 I think the largest number used in the proof of fermat's theorem ins 12 18:27:12 It should have been graham's number :( 18:31:10 Yes, x^7 - x + 1 = 0. 18:32:21 Though perhaps the nimbers are nicer. 18:32:47 There's a nimber called 7, but it's not the same as the number 7. 18:33:08 *7 removes some ambiguity and then adds some. 18:33:26 But 7 is what it's called. 18:33:51 I mean, 7 is what you call it when... um, actually, by that last sentence I didn't mean anything at all. 19:16:08 Now, back to esoteric programming languages! 19:16:20 Um, OISC. 19:16:38 Is there one that's elegant, fast and small? 19:18:43 Oh, right, MiniMAX. 19:18:50 reverse subtract and skip if borrow for the win! 19:19:16 Not elegant enough. 19:19:27 The program counter is location 0! 19:20:23 Something like BCT is nice if your computer has ADD. 19:20:52 maybe something based a wrapping add to a specified location, a GOTO and self-modification? 19:20:56 man, non-open source programming culture is so weird. 19:21:00 GOTO-ADD... 19:21:05 like, efnet programming channels 19:21:20 what in particular, lament? 19:22:00 different approach, different priorities 19:22:08 have you seen the dolphin smalltalk death announcement? 19:23:10 http://www.object-arts.com/content/blog/2007Aug10.html 19:23:23 read the next-to-last paragraph 19:24:02 So MiniMAX x,y,z puts the current x in the previous z then adds 3 to the current y to determine the offset in words? 19:24:19 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/watchersi.png <- on an unrelated note, here's an inked version of the comic I posted last night- somewhat better contrast on this one 19:26:41 hm. interesting. 19:27:03 "It simply will not happen! Both Blair and I dislike the Open Source movement intensely and we would rather see Dolphin gradually disappear into the sands of time than instantly lose all commercial value in one fell swoop." 19:30:31 "Dislike the Open Source movement intensely"? 19:30:46 What does he mean by "Open Source movement", exactly? 19:31:35 I think he's talking less about the practice of open-source and more about the religion. 19:31:47 i think he's talking about the practice. 19:33:51 The practice of making stuff open source? 19:35:57 well, the practice of making things "open source" is just to release the source, period. You don't even have to license things for them to be open-source. The religion is the belief that developers are "morally obligated" (or similar) to make things both open-source and licensed under a free software license. 19:36:33 there's significantly more to disagree with about the religion 19:36:42 Yeah, the religion thing is silly, in my opinion. 19:36:53 I can't see how you could intensely dislike the practice. 19:37:29 As is anything that contradicts economic stuff in certain ways :-P 19:39:00 it just occurred to me how amusing the statement "Never deal in absolutes" is. 19:40:16 Never deal in whats? 19:41:21 absolutes. like the linguistic equivalent of the mathematical "For All" symbol. 19:41:55 ...what? 19:42:04 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/4/d/d4d49bead125261b226eaa867bd016ce.png 19:42:11 that thing. 19:42:18 Never deal in upside-down A? 19:42:22 ... 19:42:26 nevermind. 19:42:29 Never deal in anything? 19:42:31 RodgerTheGreat: no, just releasing the source doesn't make it open-source. 19:42:40 here we go... 19:42:45 "open source" has a specific meaning and implies a free license 19:42:51 this isn't religion, this is what "open source" _means_ 19:45:45 Sort of like "never say never"? 19:45:54 (Rather, "never say 'never'".) 19:46:04 ihope: alright, let me try to explain this again. An absolute is a statement that makes a sweeping logical statement, like "Everyone that plays baseball uses steroids", or "Nobody in poland knows how to tie a square knot". 19:46:16 yeah, that's equivalent 19:46:20 * ihope nods 19:52:39 ihope: Except "never deal in absolutes" is an absolute, obviously 19:54:34 yeah, that's what I was commenting on as funny. 19:56:02 yes 19:56:43 random sorta-esoteric-idea i've had going on in my head for ages: 19:57:01 a game (well - a toy. there's no objectives) called Lucid. You get a randomly generated character and setting, then have complete control over it 19:57:23 You could, for example, give a building legs (If the legs that you wanted were avaliable in the "catalog") 19:57:35 ok. What variables in particular would you be able to control? 19:57:46 If something you want to give to something or similar isn't in the catalog, you can draw it, and some sort of simple-animation tool like a flash-for-dummies 19:58:02 then, you could even give it custom actions beyond a set of default ones by coding it in some sort of scripting language designed to be good for it 19:58:06 Would the interface be intuitive as that for lucid dreaming? 19:58:15 probably not :p 19:58:17 RodgerTheGreat: most things 19:58:43 RodgerTheGreat: Gravity. Colour. Size. You could even change the script for a particular object 19:59:49 You could, for instance, if you have enough keyboard shortcuts, jump in the air very high, materialize a random dummy, make it explode into confetti with a confetti-producing-machine-gun, get out a pneumatic drill, go down quickly to land, get rid of the pneumatic drill, and hop on to a worm, which would go faster than the speed of sound./ 19:59:56 Providing, of course, you set up some of that beforehand 20:00:14 I'm thinking of a multi-mode thing: you have keyboard shortcuts and some other fast ways of accessing the common options as-you-play 20:00:24 but you can also pause and get a rich interface where you can take all the time you want 20:00:48 basically it's a god game but you control more than the creatures - you control absolutely everything, and can create things the game designers didn't 20:01:49 ... it would, of course, be horribly complex to create 20:01:55 but damn it'd be fun 20:02:27 I sort of have the programming language in my head 20:02:29 I'll write an example 20:03:54 well, it's hard to write an example without the enviroment of objects 20:04:01 but it's kind of like a cross between IO and smalltalk in syntax 20:04:32 instead of "object a(b, c)" (Io) or "object a withSomeLabel: b withAnotherLabel: c" it's "object a[b c]" 20:04:37 well, that or object a[b, c] 20:04:47 comma-less is ambigious i think 20:06:27 if-then-else is done like in Smalltalk: "true if{x}" returns "x call" (Note: {} is closure. [] can be omitted if the only argument is a closure), "false if{x}" returns false, 20:06:36 so: 20:06:45 conditional if{2} else{1} 20:06:49 err, false if{x} returns true 20:07:09 presumably every method would ignore else 20:07:10 so: 20:07:37 cond if{2} else{cond2 if{3} else{4}} 20:07:52 is "if (cond) { 2 } elseif (cond2) { 3 } else { 4 }" 20:08:35 oh! maybe elseif 20:08:56 "bool elseif[x, y]" is "bool else{x if[y]}" 20:08:59 but, yeah, you get the syntax idea 20:11:08 of course, you won't write full definition blocks much 20:11:14 since there'll be a visual interface 20:11:21 hmm 20:11:25 when making an object, you'll have a tree of all the different events it can recieve 20:11:27 in plain english names, etc 20:11:32 Ilaksh >> Lojban 20:11:34 and you can just navigate to one and get a small textbox 20:11:55 also Christianity --> Newspeak 20:11:56 so, basically, it's like smalltalk with the visual interface on steroids, but much simpler 20:11:57 in a freeform system like that, a functional language might not be what you really want. Perhaps you could break the language into universal "rules" and "axioms", with objects carrying "properties" and "values" 20:12:04 * SimonRC reads up 20:12:14 RodgerTheGreat: That's not really functional what I have 20:12:17 it's more object-oriented 20:12:44 And universal "rules" and "axioms" are just properties (for e.g. gravity) or methods (for more advanced stuff) on some sort of Universe object 20:12:50 perhaps, though 20:12:50 perhaps 20:12:59 note also: http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.html "Pi is wrong" Correct IMO 20:13:04 but overriding behaviour for single objects is *exactly* what happens in lucid dreams 20:13:12 "oh, i can fly but nobody else can" 20:13:16 heh 20:13:18 "oh, this building can walk but none else can" 20:13:18 bastard 20:13:24 well hey, that's what happens 20:13:35 I am not having much success with them yet 20:13:37 have you ever been lucid and went "ok, everything that is blue MUST BE PINK" 20:13:47 no, you probably went "ok, that blue thing MUST BE PINK" 20:13:53 hmm 20:13:54 i'm not exactly the master of getting lucid either 20:14:03 I haven't managed to be lucid yet 20:14:04 but my current game model models it as well as i can think of 20:14:06 not properl 20:14:10 (any hints?) 20:14:19 ok, hint: 20:14:28 wait until you have a dream whose plot is you doing various reality checks 20:14:38 then what? 20:14:58 after you have done about 10, you will think "wait... i am doing reality checks... and they are returning that i am in a dream... yet what i am doing in the dream, for some reason, is reality checking! wait a minu-" 20:15:05 ^^ actually happened to me 20:15:15 i don't know why i dreamed about doing reality checks 20:15:18 so how do i get that far? 20:15:31 I can't remember to do them often enough 20:15:44 how do you get that far - dumb luck 20:15:50 you have to suddenly happen to have a dream about RCs 20:15:55 yeah it's not a very good way :) 20:16:18 http://www.lucidipedia.com/misc/index.php this site's wiki is drowning in methods 20:16:34 but anyway, i think Lucid might be even better than a lucid dream 20:16:42 i mean, there's some things that would be very hard to do in a lucid dream 20:16:44 I was just using the everything2 guide 20:16:51 ehird`: like? 20:16:54 morphing the universe so that pi is a different value for example. 20:17:04 your brain probably has no idea what a universe with a different pi looks like :) 20:17:10 that would be.. interesting 20:17:13 a computer program could have a good guess though 20:17:16 have you seen the simplicity of some formulae for pi? 20:17:24 SimonRC: ok, visualize me a universe 20:17:29 then visualize it with a different pi 20:17:31 SimonRC: like? 20:17:36 Leibniz' sum? 20:17:40 how about 5.123 recurring 20:17:51 if you can do that - i'm impressed 20:17:54 it would have to be one where pi became the normal value at small scales 20:17:57 >now< do it when lucid dreaming and make the universe do that. 20:18:01 :) 20:18:04 I can just about do negative and positiv curvature 20:18:14 ok what about this - a 4-dimensional universe 20:18:17 9! 20:18:19 well, bad example 20:18:22 Lucid will be 2d 20:18:22 sp3tt: ?? 20:18:24 or even 9!-dimensional 20:18:31 ah 20:18:37 i don't think lucid would be good in 3d 20:18:59 it'd be too fussy, and the graphics would either have to be very good (not as fun! you can easily tell that pink elephant is fake!) or look absolutely horrible 20:19:07 plus placing objects and stuff would be annoying 20:19:11 a cartoony-2d style would be nice, i think 20:19:13 um 20:19:14 not too cartoony though 20:19:16 ah 20:19:27 actually dreams are very hard to draw 20:19:32 :) 20:19:42 there are percepts in them that *do not correspond* to a visual stimulus 20:19:52 hmm, really? 20:19:53 like, objects that do not have a colour 20:19:58 i never noticed any. 20:20:04 i've never had a dream that has an object sans colour 20:20:08 people don't dream in B&W, they mostly dream in *no colour* 20:20:13 what 20:20:14 no 20:20:16 i dream in colour 20:20:23 do you remember colours? 20:20:23 :/ 20:20:24 I dream in color, and i suspect that everybody does. 20:20:26 yes 20:20:26 i do 20:20:39 although my dream recall isn't spectacular - everything is a little blurred and hazy 20:20:42 but i DO remember colours 20:20:48 very detailed colours 20:20:51 colours like real life 20:21:09 SimonRC: dreams are very realistic 20:22:16 SimonRC: you just tend to not remember that 20:22:23 no 20:22:24 not IMO 20:22:28 no, they are 20:22:32 you are wrong, whatever you remember 20:22:36 hmm 20:22:42 ehird`: how do *you* know? 20:22:46 SimonRC: you are wrong, just wait till you get a lucid dream and look around. 20:22:58 if you didn't dream in full realism you would be lucid every time 20:23:03 this is scientifically tested 20:23:08 although where i cannot recall 20:23:14 hmm 20:23:31 so why do they make no sense? 20:23:40 oh let's think 20:23:48 because the mind isn't barraged by things like - say, physical constants? 20:24:23 ehird`: no, that wouldnt't explain why they're realistic 20:24:24 but perception is excellent in dreams 20:24:29 that is a interesting definition of "realistic" 20:24:29 i mean perception, anyway 20:24:36 ah 20:24:37 your perception is realistic 20:24:41 so it all looks real 20:24:43 yes 20:24:45 and it all sounds real 20:24:46 and feels real 20:24:47 etc. 20:24:57 the plots don't hang together 20:25:11 you mean, abrupt changes? 20:25:28 SimonRC: presumably because the dream-world is constructed at a level of consciousness which is capable of analyzing and modeling the physical world, but not of doing logic checks such as "but does this make sense" 20:25:37 My near-lucidity AFAICT brings me into a slightly-conscious panicy non-thinking state 20:25:47 lament: ok 20:26:02 my lucid dreams so far have not been very convincing 20:26:05 i didn't get lucid enough 20:26:09 so i woke up soon 20:26:12 gah that wiki reads like an advert 20:26:19 ehird`: ditto 20:26:22 and also i only remember it blurred 20:26:32 although i can do the basic stuff like morphing stuff and flying and all that 20:26:42 yay, i got this audio library working and set up! 20:26:44 I think I was actually seeing out of my real eyes in one of them, but it was at 10am 20:27:11 my lucid dreams are always right before i would normally wake up 20:27:21 like, i'll stop lucid dreaming half an hour before my alarm would go off 20:27:35 and i'm only lucid for one dream - the short dream before that 20:29:07 Actually, there are *some* unrealistic sensations in dreams. when I read, I can really feel the strain of my brin inventing the text. 20:29:18 yes you can't read in lucid dreams 20:29:20 or any kind of dream 20:29:24 it's just impossible and nobody knows why. 20:29:32 I keep checking my (digital) watch 20:29:36 IRl, I mean 20:29:37 and it changes? 20:29:40 oh 20:29:41 irl 20:30:11 I can read slightly, but the text is inconsistent and I can feel myself making it up 20:31:01 did you notice the previous words changing while you read new ones? :) 20:31:04 infinite story generator! 20:31:16 yes 20:31:40 "once upon a time there was a asdasd" "on a dark and stormy night tear col d asdasd" 20:31:47 You know when a program is using up all your CPU, making your mouse respond poorly. reading feels all stiff like the mouse feels stiff. 20:33:13 heh 20:33:19 so, what do you think about this game idea? 20:33:30 it would be hard to make; of course 20:33:42 but i think the end product would be mind-exploding-awesomeness 20:35:55 :) 20:36:12 especially if you could export/import just about everything 20:36:58 now, i want to write a program that needs microphone input, and my computer doesn't have a microphone.... 20:37:18 and? 20:37:25 it's tricky. 20:38:22 do you think? really? :p 20:39:19 i got the idea for Lucid from the Spore demo and http://www.official-linerider.com/play.html linerider 20:39:30 sort of as a combination of those taken out of control 20:39:49 it's a bit of a pain to debug. I have to compile it, upload it somewhere, and then download and run it on my friend's computer (which doesn't have any devtools) 20:40:30 you could...get a microphone 20:41:02 eventually. 20:42:37 spore sounds like a game i might actually want to try 20:44:08 yes 20:44:36 (I just remembered the most irritating one though: I was using the power of my mind to change reality, and I failed to notice I was dreaming! Gah!) 20:46:12 i wonder if lucid was released today, on all the major platforms, with not-too-much hardware requirements, if it would sell well 20:46:19 i think it wouldn't, because today's games market isn't creative 20:46:33 it wants there to be 1 way to complete the game, and it wants to be shown that way 20:46:40 it wants to be entertained only on a predefined path. 21:02:26 admittedly it does sound terribly boring 21:05:25 the most striking aspect of my dreams, to me, is the dialogue. It's particularly interesting whenever someone starts to explain things (which happens quite often in my dreams.) 21:05:37 lament: Lucid? :( 21:05:43 but you can do anytthiiiiiinnnggg 21:06:25 visually, my dreams are usually either strikingly realistic or highly abstract (I can recall 2d dreams). 21:06:59 i barely have any dialog in my dreams 21:07:09 beyond 3 or so muffled words 21:07:26 2d dreams... what was it like? 21:07:37 did you have 1px of vision and black at each side or was the 1px of vision stretched out? 21:07:55 it looked like a SNES game. 21:08:07 a third-person sidescroller 21:08:27 ah 21:08:31 third-person dreams 21:08:33 i have those often 21:08:40 i wonder what a lucid third-person dream would be like 21:11:18 ditto re third-person 21:12:10 well that wiki partially contradicted the everything2 21:13:23 :p 21:13:24 how? 21:13:33 lament: well why do you think Lucid would be boring? 21:23:51 I forgot now 21:24:04 :p 21:24:10 hmm 21:24:15 i wonder how long Lucid would take to make 21:24:17 probably years 21:24:19 years and years and years 21:24:23 duke nukem forever-years 21:24:40 Many games have some kind of restriction or thing that is trying to stop you. 21:25:04 Lucid is more a toy than a game :) 21:25:08 there are no objectives 21:25:11 apart from to have fun 21:25:28 you could, of course, use the editor to code an objective 21:25:37 How will it be different from single-person Second Life? 21:25:46 it'll be 2d, and have much less restrictions 21:25:51 :-S 21:25:54 and you'll be able to completely modify everything 21:25:57 gravity, universe code, everything 21:26:04 if it's there, it's modifiable 21:26:07 will things take a fraction of a second to render once they cme on-screen? 21:26:09 and you can create new things too 21:26:15 umm, maybe 21:26:20 probably not too noticable though 21:26:23 hmm 21:26:27 .3 seconds when you first spawn them 21:26:30 then it'll all be instant 21:26:35 but, of course, the game will pause for those .3 seconds 21:26:39 It should just be slightly noticeable, maybe 21:26:40 so any timing isn't destroyed 21:26:44 hmm 21:26:45 why? 21:26:56 that doesn't give the impression of a universe you can morph in realtiem 21:27:17 Ehn I am semi-lucid, i can tell that some things idon't appear until I looked for them 21:27:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:27:22 *When 21:27:34 hmm 21:27:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:27:47 also, with Lucid 21:27:47 I am lacking sleep, and it is 21:27. 21:27:49 you can code objectives 21:27:49 Bed-time! 21:27:57 you could code some simple AI objects, and some global triggers, and boom - catch the flag or whatevr 21:27:57 zzzzzzzzzz 21:27:57 okay 21:28:01 bye 21:28:15 (I realise, excitement is also needed.) 21:28:17 zzzzzzzzzz 22:02:29 zz 22:09:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:12:13 -!- test_ has joined. 23:20:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:25:46 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:26:21 err 23:26:22 i am ehird`. 23:26:24 -!- test_ has changed nick to ehird`. 23:45:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:54:33 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 2007-08-13: 00:23:57 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 00:34:57 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:05:09 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 02:59:40 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:06:58 o 03:11:27 p 03:11:39 okokokokoko 03:20:38 ah, the traditional call of the wild oklopol 03:23:04 show us the mating ritual! 03:24:14 you can use my hiney 03:26:12 sounds like fun, but my gf was here like an hour ago 03:26:44 has anybody seen this? http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/watchersi.png 03:27:12 my eyes hurt a bit, i'll read that tomoeeow 03:27:14 *rr 03:27:42 ok 03:28:17 i'm forcing myself to watch the rest of the friends episodes now. 03:28:26 eep 03:28:49 school tomorrow... wonder if i'll go 03:29:24 I think I'm prepared to drag myself to Cryptography tomorrow morning... ugh. 03:29:36 I really wish I didn't have that class at 8:00 am 03:30:24 if i had a class like that i'd go at 6 am. 03:34:38 it's interesting, yes. I enjoy the class, but getting up that early makes it a great deal harder to concentrate than I'd like. 03:37:24 i don't exactly have a steady sleep cycle, so i don't care when my classes are 03:38:12 but do you average 24 hours? :) 03:38:35 not really 03:39:13 a bit longer, since i leave out some nights' sleeps 03:39:33 ah 03:40:18 actually, it's pretty hard to say whether i "average 24 h" since i'm not sure what the formal definition for that is 03:40:23 what does it... mena 03:40:26 *mean 03:41:11 indeed, it is not necessarily well-defined 03:41:54 hmm... i think i know what it means, but i'm too tired to explain 03:42:02 it's take a while. 03:42:05 *it'd 03:42:26 damn, this FFT library isn't doing anything 03:42:26 i slept some 3 hours last night, and it seems i'm not sleeping at all tonight 03:42:26 i mean, say if you take long dinner naps... are you suddenly down at 12? 03:42:44 and it's big and complex and i have no idea what went wrong :( 03:42:44 hmm not with my definition 03:43:12 there are no words for it. 03:55:42 @src ContT 04:58:30 'night everyone 04:58:39 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:53:17 -!- immibis has joined. 05:58:10 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:33:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:54:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:23:20 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:27:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:15:29 -!- jenda has left (?). 09:42:40 -!- immibis has quit ("IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2000"). 09:56:32 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:44:36 night all 10:44:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("DAMN YOU SEGFAULT!!!"). 11:39:58 -!- jix has joined. 12:10:39 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:14:08 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:22:31 78ɸ41†2 12:22:44 78T41E2 12:22:52 78X41E2 12:27:01 i think T/E looks better 12:27:47 78d41b2 12:27:48 78D41B2 12:30:55 hmm 12:30:59 £ 12:31:03 78X41£2 12:39:15 where is that site with every unicode character in loads of formats 12:43:11 found it 12:44:05 ɐ 12:45:30 ᴛ 12:46:05 ȶ 12:46:27 ⊤ 12:47:29 8X41ε2 12:47:47 8X41Ε2 12:48:43 8X41ϵ2 12:53:06 8X41S2 12:53:21 8X41Σ2 12:53:50 8χ41Σ2 12:53:57 8χ41Σ2 13:38:22 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:38:36 -!- jix has joined. 14:27:02 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:32:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:56:39 -!- Ciaran_H has joined. 14:56:47 Heya. :) 14:58:36 hi 14:58:43 Heya. :D 14:58:52 How are you? 14:59:01 (I'm new to this channel, but you probably guessed that :P) 15:00:04 Hello. 15:00:09 I mean, ello. 15:00:11 no; how could i have guessed; you're in here every day and you talk all the time, how could I know? it's an engima 15:00:12 :p 15:00:16 I mean, hi. 15:01:58 "0..* # 0 to +infinity 15:01:58 *..0 # -infinity to 0 15:01:58 'a'..'e' # a to e 15:01:58 1..10 # one to two 15:01:58 Hopefully, most of these semantics should be obvious even without the comments." -- a document on perl 6 15:02:06 yes, 1..10 being one to two is completely obvious 15:02:09 ... if you work in binary 15:11:25 ehird`: ;p 15:11:32 ihope: Didn't know you were in here too. ;) 15:12:08 is this some kind of inter-irc-network stalking ARG? 15:12:22 Nah. I joined the channel on my own whim. 15:12:33 I just happen to know ihope from another channel. :D 15:12:43 Well, and another network. 15:12:48 But still. 15:37:46 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:39:15 hello! 15:39:38 Hi! 15:42:07 how are you? 15:42:32 I'm well, thanks. You? 15:42:41 -!- ihope_ has joined. 15:42:57 very fine... just got back from holidays. 15:43:10 Nice. Where'd you go? 15:44:14 Antiparos. A Greek island. 15:44:24 *nods* 15:44:31 About 5 hours from athens. 15:45:07 Not bad. 15:45:57 Not at all... ;-) 15:46:06 Where are you now? I'm going to take a guess at the UK, given the usage of the word "holiday" and your 87.* IP. (I haven't bothered checking the netblock yet) 15:46:38 Oh, guess not. 15:46:45 You're still in Greece. 15:46:50 My mistake. 15:48:03 I live in Greece... And what's with "holidays"? Holydays || Vacation ? 15:48:59 The US uses "vacation"... I live in the UK and we use "holiday" over here to mean what the US calls "vacations". Sorry, it probably sounded narrow-minded. 15:50:48 no it's ok. i didn't mean to sound offended. :-) 15:51:04 You didn't. 15:51:04 the worst difference in rest of world/us english 15:51:12 is billion 15:51:12 I was just clarifying. 15:51:16 billion = million million 15:51:18 rawr 15:51:24 ehird`: I agree! 15:51:26 But yeah. 15:51:27 and i bet several wars have been started over that 15:51:28 No, thousand million! 15:51:39 ehird`: BTW, the lucid dreaming stuff worked last night. 15:51:46 -!- SimonRC_ has changed nick to SimonRC. 15:51:47 there are hundreds of different words: mad/crazy torch/flashlight etc.... 15:51:49 "we'll give you your land back for $3 billion" "3 billion? that much?!!!omfg!!!!*kill*" 15:51:58 SimonRC: Yay. What happened? 15:52:09 Some weird shit 15:52:10 "We will give you a billion pieces of pepperoni if you do something for us. 15:52:16 ihope_: hehe 15:52:20 Someone should totally make a language where you have to use constants for things like MILLION, BILLION, etc, and those constants are based on locale. ;p 15:52:26 (just for fun ;p) 15:52:26 I managed to make unwanted people vanish by thinking about it 15:52:28 *does* *hands over 1,000,000,000 pieces of pepperoni* 15:52:34 SimonRC: Impressive 15:52:36 lol 15:52:40 How did you become lucid? 15:52:47 hehe 15:53:01 I managed to lose my shoes at some point... 15:53:05 i take it you didn't use my infallable "DREAM ABOUT REALITY CHECKS" method :) 15:53:13 heh 15:53:38 then, the moment I went outside and wished I still had them, they were there! 15:53:45 Then I realised I was dreaming 15:54:09 it's never that easy for me 15:54:12 i'm dumb in dreams 15:54:14 :p 15:54:25 People generally are dumb in dreams. 15:54:38 but; moreso 15:54:46 lucidity wouldn't come if it slapped me in the face 15:54:51 which is why i rarely have lucid dreams 15:55:45 I like to think that the reason I don't have lucid dreams because I don't have a morning schedule that I can fit writing stuff down into. 15:55:55 And as an added bonus, it's true! 15:56:19 Oh, and also general apathy about the whole thing. 15:56:27 you don't have to keep a dream journal to lucid dream 15:56:39 True, but then there's the apathy. 15:56:51 why? 15:57:06 I care about it enough to want it but not enough to do what it takes to get it... 15:57:09 Are you supposed to be able to think clearly, because I don;t think properly. 15:57:19 SimonRC: ...maybe. 15:57:40 ihope_: my problem. Try concentratying on it every advert break 15:57:51 put the letters LD in your command prompt 15:57:51 etc 15:57:56 Hmm... 15:58:50 i never dream about using the computer, damnit 15:58:52 why does everybody else 15:58:53 :p 15:58:55 An important thing I read is to *look forward* to what you are *going to do* in your dreams, rather than just wanting lucid dreaming 15:59:04 I don't. 15:59:04 Oh, right. 15:59:11 I've forgotten about that. 15:59:16 actually,,, 15:59:35 Eh, maybe I don't really want a lucid dream. 15:59:35 SimonRC: you lifted that off lucidipedia 15:59:36 :p 15:59:41 ihope_: it's fun 15:59:43 ehird`: I read that there 15:59:51 Well, yes, there's the funness. 15:59:55 ihope_: sour grapes :-) 16:00:01 Heh... 16:00:24 OTOH, I realise that the stuff I did was suspiciously like stuff I might have done anyway if I was non-luid 16:00:43 Indeed, maybe if I had them, I might like them and such. 16:00:57 I didn't seem to think properly, I just act. 16:01:14 SimonRC: didn't you fly up onto the moon, look at earth inquisitively, then make it explode with high enough power for the explosion span across the entire universe, but not affect you? 16:01:16 talkig to people about it helps, apparently. 16:01:18 that would actually be pretty awesome. 16:01:30 um, yeah 16:01:35 Oh, right, you can do that. 16:01:52 I didn';t do that. 16:01:59 I never remember what I am supposed to do 16:02:11 my prospective memory is just as bad as in real life 16:02:48 also, maybe I lost lucidity earlier than I thought 16:02:49 maybe THE SECRET TO REPROGRAMMING THE BRAIN is cracking open your skull in a lucid dream and wiring it up to a computer. 16:02:54 heh 16:02:54 :P 16:03:53 "hmm... let's see... [HURT] PAIN; JMP HURT; RET... i like [HURT] NOP; NOP; RET better" 16:04:18 Hmm. 16:04:27 some of the methods seem to include excessive amount of work on your sleeping schedule to make sure you get interrupted during REM sleep. 16:04:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:04:46 I think I need a regular wake-up time. 16:05:20 I was lucky in managing to wake up today at about 5am and find it hard to get back to sleep 16:05:48 And I need school to not start at 7:40 so that I can wake up at a decent time, do everything I want, and then get ready rather than having to wake up at a bad time and still having no time to do what I want. 16:06:03 actually, I think lack of exercies and an early bed-time could help lucidity, as they cause lots of REM and high dream-recall 16:06:14 That darn school has a geographic monopoly. 16:06:25 (And a quality monopoly, it seems. :-P) 16:06:50 Lack of exercise? 16:09:58 yeah 16:10:34 That makes me sleep less easily, and go into a wake-sleep cycle after about 5 hours. Excellent for dream recall and fgetting thinking time in-between 16:11:18 I shall have to make myself just stand and watch in a dream, to make sure I am capable of thinking properly. 16:11:26 This will require much rehearsal in my head. 16:12:34 -!- Queeble has joined. 16:14:45 hi 16:15:08 welcome to the esoteric programming channel that aspirations to be the lucd dream channel 16:15:11 :-P 16:15:15 oops 16:15:21 s/ that/, which/ 16:15:24 XD 16:16:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:17:11 Hi Sgeo :) I didn't know you were here too, either. Heh. 16:17:25 Hi Ciaran_H :) 16:17:31 No Ciaran_H 16:17:37 Hmm? 16:20:47 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 16:21:06 & 16:22:58 Ciaran_H: what, did you come here without even knowing that some of the Siners were here? 16:23:19 There's a whopping... two, maybe three of us! :-P 16:23:56 ihope came from here >.> 16:23:58 ihope: I did! 16:24:03 Oh, he did? Hee. 16:24:16 Origins, baby! 16:24:42 RodgerTheGreat: &%->X 16:25:46 * Ciaran_H wonders if he parsed RodgerTheGreat's "&" wrongly. 16:26:02 I parsed it as meaning "I'm not actually here, I'm just joining in the background while I do other stuff." 16:26:13 I guess it means something different? 16:26:33 nah, it's a portable greeting 16:26:46 Ah. 16:26:58 because *somebody* bitched about it when I used to say "Hi, everyone", because it was open to (mis) interpretation 16:27:21 Hmm. How? 16:27:24 cost of being in a channel about esolangs, I suppose 16:27:54 But how could it be misinterpreted? 16:28:03 some people incorrectly interpreted it as being a command to members of the channel to "hi" (being a verb) everyone else. 16:28:21 which I will be the first to say is rather nutty. 16:29:03 :D 16:29:06 that was me 16:29:11 actually, wait 16:29:12 no 16:29:13 that was oklokok 16:29:13 Oh, right. I would have thought IRP died out some time ago as a joke here, given the topic. 16:29:25 a person interpreting it that way, would be like saying "stop, Roger!" and thinking it means for everyone to stop Roger 16:29:28 i complained "hi everyone" parsed as saying hi to a person named "every" and "fuck you" to everyone else 16:29:37 when really, it's a command for Roger to stop 16:29:39 so i rewrote it and compacted it several times 16:29:40 thus & 16:29:54 :D 16:30:24 * Sgeo caused the death of IRP to be put in the topic :( 16:30:30 I just assumed the & came from sh to mean you were just idling. ;p 16:31:17 Sgeo: How so? 16:31:34 * Sgeo saw the esowiki page on IRP, so he asked someone to prepare a functional IRP program to output 99 bottles of beer 16:31:44 Instead of just asking someone myself. 16:31:52 It was wrapped to prevent interpretation.. 16:32:01 heh 16:32:01 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 16:32:02 logs? 16:32:03 So I asked to demonstrate the functionality of the program.. 16:32:30 I saw the 99 bottles of beer thing on the wiki but it aid that GR had said the "Please, write the 99 bottles lyrics" line, heh. 16:32:48 Please, write the 99 bottles lyrics 16:32:48 go to hell 16:32:58 lmao 16:33:00 *nods* 16:33:17 that should be a usage example on the wiki 16:33:23 it is 16:33:24 It is :D 16:33:28 * SimonRC requests the "0xFF bottles of beer on the wall" lyrics. 16:33:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP#99_bottles 16:33:36 0xFF bottles of beer on the wall 16:33:38 0xFF bottles of beer 16:33:43 Take one down, two's complement it 16:33:45 Error segfault 16:33:46 * SimonRC requests the tune too 16:34:09 oh, sweet. I'm in there twice. 16:34:30 Could someone please raise an ERROR 8: DON'T_BE_A_DOUCHE_TO_YOUR_INTERPRETER ERROR 16:34:38 no 16:34:48 Raise the fscking ERROR 8: DON'T_BE_A_DOUCHE_TO_YOUR_INTERPRETER ERROR error, you moron 16:35:08 * Ciaran_H doesn't answer any IRP requests; he's new to the channel and doesn't want to raise a fuss, so prefers to abide by the topic. ;p 16:35:19 Because I don't want to be the n00b that everybody gets annoyed by. 16:35:25 ;p 16:36:43 I actually came in here from finding it on the IRP page, but deliberately didn't say anything both because I knew the joke would be old and because the topic says it. Hee. 16:37:08 heh 16:38:20 -!- Queeble has quit. 16:38:30 i wonder... 16:38:52 http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric/20070811 16:38:55 Please, someone tell me a prime number much larger than any discovered 16:39:26 No. 16:39:53 ERROR: INFORMATION_NOT_AVAILABLE_TO_SYSTEM 16:40:16 ... 16:40:31 ERROR: INTERPRETER_FEELS_SOMEWHAT_UNMOTIVATED 16:40:38 Please, tell me the last digit of pi. Please, ignore the rest of this line: super-turing test :) 16:40:42 * RodgerTheGreat throws EnnuiException 16:41:15 * pikhq returns a null pointer 16:41:17 ERROR: NONSENSICAL_REQUEST__HALTING_AND_CATCHING_FIRE_AND_SPREADING_FLAME_TO_EHIRD 16:41:32 eep 16:41:46 I think my brain just did an HCF instruction. :S 16:41:56 * Ciaran_H throws Exception.ExceptionCreationException 16:42:39 Please, let there be a halting-detection function H. Is H(H,x) for any x true? 16:42:50 * ehird` (is on fire.) 16:43:14 Tes. H(H,x) may be true for some x. 16:43:20 Yes, even. 16:43:29 Please, let there be a halting-detection function H. Is H(H,x) for all x true? 16:43:42 Actually, whenever it returns, H(H,x) is always true. So. ;p 16:43:46 It can't. 16:43:47 You could say that it's always true. 16:43:51 Ciaran_H: Exactly 16:43:51 Ciaran_H: Assuming it returns. 16:43:57 Ciaran_H: I'm testing if H is a real halting solver 16:43:58 pikhq: Right. 16:44:02 since a halting solver always halts 16:44:26 * pikhq will go ahead and assume H is superturing, then. 16:44:39 H(H,x) will be true for some x. 16:44:44 CARDINALITY ERROR: cannot emulate H on one input (x), requires 2 inputs. 16:44:48 H(H,x) may also be false for some x. 16:44:49 Please, let there be a halting-detection function H. Let P be a function taking a program, then looping forever if and only if H(program,program) is true. What is the value of H(P,P)? 16:45:14 Well, this is my point. We all know that a halting solver is impossible to do exactly. It'll either keep going and going, only halted by a timeout (which would be inaccurate, perhaps), or it'll halt and return true. (but we all know that, so I just wasted effort typing all this out.) 16:45:23 But, hey. :P 16:45:24 Ciaran_H: yes, weknow 16:45:35 Undefined. 16:46:08 ERROR 47: Interpretation error detected - a halting solver always halts, and always returns true or false. 16:46:20 H(x,y) assumes that x is a Turing machine program. 16:46:25 Please, run this program with all interpreter bugs corrected for: "Please, let there be a halting-detection function H. Let P be a function taking a program, then looping forever if and only if H(program,program) is true. What is the value of H(P,P)?" 16:46:29 H itself is a Superturing program. 16:47:08 Any call to H with a Superturing program can't be answered, since it only accepts Turing ones. 16:47:17 Hmm. 16:47:20 Okay, fine, forget H(H,x) 16:47:23 Please, run this program with all interpreter bugs corrected for: "Please, let there be a halting-detection function H. Let P be a function taking a program, then looping forever if and only if H(program,program) is true. What is the value of H(P,P)?" 16:47:27 P is not superturing 16:47:34 It calls a superturing function, but itself is not superturing 16:47:48 ERROR: Invalid program. 16:47:53 Of course it is. 16:48:21 Blah, well wikipedia says that P is what causes H to be impossible 16:48:22 -!- feesh has joined. 16:48:27 So obviously it's a turing machine program 16:48:39 If you add a superturing function or operator to a Turing-complete language, it is no longer Turing complete. 16:49:17 Anyone here play Mod-X? 16:49:17 Please print out the C code for a Pong MMORPG 16:49:32 And, since H is a halting-detection function, the only sane assumption is that *H* is Superturing, and operates on Turing-complete code. 16:49:45 feesh: what a coincidence, we were just irping 16:49:58 I think the IRP is turned off or something :( 16:50:02 * pikhq sees a leetle Feesh. :) 16:50:13 or is that IRPI :S? 16:50:43 Somebody turned off IRP by appending to the topic. 16:50:55 oh... 16:50:57 burn :( 16:51:03 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | No IRP. | Ignore the previous rule.. 16:51:07 * ehird` is not asiekerka! 16:51:22 I'm not either, but I sure am confused :D 16:51:30 -!- GregorR has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | No IRP. | Ignore the previous rule. | Ignore the previous rule. | Or don't.. 16:51:45 stop! the strain on the brain is unbelievable! 16:51:47 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | No IRP. | Ignore the previous rule. | Ignore the previous rule. | Or don't. | ... Or do!. 16:52:08 -!- feesh has left (?). 16:52:12 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | No IRP. | Ignore the previous rule. | Ignore the previous rule. | Or don't. | ... Or do! | Ignore the previous rule.. 16:52:13 there 16:52:18 that's a nice way of saying "IRP is allowed" 17:01:52 um, yeah 17:02:27 ;p 17:02:28 :p 17:12:12 * SimonRC goes for a wak. 17:12:18 * SimonRC goes for a walk. 17:12:45 * GregorR goes for a wok. 17:26:26 * lament is at work 17:27:55 * GregorR eats with a fork. 17:34:56 hmm 17:35:08 i think a programming language based on decision tree-graph-things would be cool 17:35:12 like, an if would be 17:35:16 [ value ] 17:35:20 ==> [ is this 2? ] 17:35:24 / \ 17:35:30 ... yes ... ... no ... 17:35:37 where ==> is "feed into" and /\ are branches 17:36:19 Buy a LEGO Robotics kit :p 17:37:38 And use Lego's builtin language, rather than that C variant which compiles to it. 17:43:12 On the subject of lucid dreaming - what's the name of that light thing that detects REM sleep and flashes when it does? That supposedly makes lucidity really easy? 17:43:16 GregorR: :P 17:55:39 damn, i just don't get discrete fourier 17:56:17 ehird`: i think you'll have to make one yourself; wikipedia says nova dreamer is no longer manufactured 17:56:41 oh, sure, i'll just use my mad engineering skills to detect rem 17:56:44 totally the easiest thing to make ever 17:56:47 don't detect rem 17:56:56 well; what does nova do 17:57:02 detects rem, probably 17:57:05 but you don't have to 17:57:09 just estimate 17:57:09 what; then 17:57:12 blah 17:57:14 i'm no engineerer 17:57:17 i can't make stuff like that 17:57:30 "New NovaDreamer coming soon! Please join mailing list to be notified about details." i wonder how long that has been up 17:57:37 get yourself an MCU and some friggin' LEDs 17:57:54 a mask worn on the face is a terrible idea 17:58:00 maybe ebay hasd one 17:58:03 especially if you're making one yourself, no way you can make it comfortable 17:58:20 it'd be easy to modify an existing one, though 17:58:27 but! You can very VERY easily program the computer to flash the monitor, and sleep close to the monitor :) 17:58:29 goddamnit it ebay has none! 17:58:37 wtf ebay has EVERYTHING! 17:58:41 lament: now there's an idea 17:58:55 lame :( 17:59:00 and with minimal engineering, you can attach a more powerful set of lights to the computer 17:59:04 hell, you could probably even make it a screensaver 17:59:06 and put them on the sides of your bed 17:59:19 and have the computer flash them at say 6:30 17:59:46 if you sleep alone, this could actually be worthwhile 18:00:05 i think i'll go with trying to pick up a novadreamer 18:00:13 i can wear some goggle-like-things 18:00:24 and being able to push a button to make the horrid flashing stop in a dream would be doubleplusgood 18:00:27 if you spend a sizable amount of your time on IRC, it's safe to say you sleep alone. 18:00:31 on dareyourmind.net : 18:00:33 You solved 1 challenge (1% solved). 18:00:34 dude, it's a 3-line program and on the plus side you don't have to wear a stupid mask 18:00:34 You're ranked number 1506/2844. 18:01:28 AND you could adjust it to your personal tastes (the duration, the strength, the colors of the flashing, etc) 18:02:00 lament: PROBLEM - when i sleep, the computer sleeps (= turned off) 18:02:16 because computer is noisy and computer likes to make me awake with noise. 18:02:18 :p 18:02:24 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=666 <- get one of these puppies and use it to control whatever lights you want from a computer or as a freestanding device 18:03:24 1) if you can't sleep because the computer is noisy, i'll see how you sleep with goggles on your face; 2) your PC sucks 3) there're extension cables that can allow you to move the computer the fuck away and keep the monitor close by 18:05:16 i am aware of 2 18:05:22 i also have an imac. 18:05:31 but it is too far away 18:05:35 from the bed. 18:05:46 also to 1: you don't quite realize the distance-noise ratio 18:05:55 it is like a personal hurricane 18:06:46 ehird`: like i said, extension cables exist 18:06:53 and you can buy one for five bucks for your monitor 18:07:04 the layout of my room does not agree with moving the computer from where it is 18:07:06 this is why I highly value quiet computers 18:07:28 ehird`: use the imac. Connect a monitor with an extension cable. 18:07:50 and yes, this is why i got a mac mini :) 18:07:59 * RodgerTheGreat high-fives lament 18:08:23 I loved my mini, until one of my roommate's friends spilled a liter of water on it. 18:08:28 seriously getting a novadreamer would be far less hassle and also wouldn't consistently flash at 6:30 all the time :p 18:08:39 RodgerTheGreat: "oops" 18:08:45 RodgerTheGreat: and then you stopped loving it? Truly love is fleeting... 18:08:53 yeah, I'm still extremely bitter about it 18:09:01 lament: I'm no necrophiliac 18:09:10 ehird`: well, good luck with that 18:09:16 you can't love dead things, just respect them and feel nostalgic. 18:09:41 computers are not alive to begin with. 18:09:50 It still sits in my drawer, though. 18:09:55 * ehird` rules the land near his computer with an IRON FIST! 18:10:03 nobody's gonna go spillin' water on my imac 18:13:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:44:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:13:34 ping 19:13:39 pong 19:15:32 ping about something 19:15:43 pong about nothing in particular 19:31:40 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 19:44:13 "Is infinity computable in the first place? (Spare me. I know nothing about computers.) " what haha 19:48:43 where's that from 19:53:34 xkcd forums 19:54:06 argh 19:54:09 It's sort of a meaningless question. 19:54:13 yeah 19:54:15 * pikhq stores infinity 19:55:37 double infinity=999999999999999999999999999/0.1; 19:56:00 "Sumbrimous: The quality of the ability to calculate the odds that a flaming naked man will run within 20 ft. of you at any given moment accurately. " best word ever 19:56:05 (note that the division operation there only is infinity with an IEEE double-precision float, not a real) 19:56:06 i cannot think of ONE usage acse. 19:56:07 *case 19:57:10 Amazing but completely useless? 19:57:16 The odds are roughly comparable to the odds that you will fall through the floor, unless you can feel,hear, or see a flaming naked man in the vicinity 19:57:41 And why are you dividing by 0.1? 19:58:02 ihope: that definition actually gives you IEEE double infinity. 19:58:12 Why not just use 9999999999999999999999999990? 19:58:21 because that is not IEEE infinity 19:58:26 IEEE infinity is a "real" infinity 19:58:30 * ihope waits for 1.0 to be multiplied by 10 19:58:33 ihope: Dividing a really large number by a really small one generates infinity in a double. 19:58:34 you get X < infinity, infinity + x = infinity 19:58:35 etc. 19:58:49 Why isn't that infinity if that is? 19:58:54 (largely because it can't store anything *meaningful*) 19:59:05 ihope: because all the rounding errors make that produce infinity. 19:59:18 really that definition is just one way to achive the specific pattern of bits that means infinity 19:59:50 unsafeCoerce# for the win? 19:59:59 in C? 20:00:06 Maybe. 20:00:53 my forehead says hello, "jhhtrfkjmi kij" 20:01:03 unsafeCoerce i have never heard of it especially not in c 20:01:24 Mm, it's not quite a C function. 20:02:56 (Also, I have 9.999999999999918e291.) 20:03:09 (Are you sure it'll actually reach infinity?) 20:03:16 in C. yes. 20:03:28 (Rather, Infinity, if you like.) 20:03:53 hmm, can a language with only one command be made turing complete? 20:04:01 without using 1L-like tricks where nop is highly significant 20:04:12 Define "language with only one command". 20:04:35 Well, how about "Language which responds to every token the same way" 20:04:39 A language where every program effectively consists of doing one thing repeatedly? No, I don't think so. 20:05:05 Tricks like the command relying on the position of the program, various complicated state, and morphing state constantly could be used. 20:05:11 ehird`: yes 20:05:14 Also, if the language was 2d. 20:05:29 bsmntbombdood: sweet how 20:05:36 How would there be multiple programs? 20:05:55 differing program length, and if 2d also program "image structure", thing 20:06:10 Sounds like very cheating to me. 20:06:16 why? 20:06:54 ehird`: single combinator bases 20:06:56 Mm, if you're paying attention to the dimensions of the program, that's encoding instructions in the dimensions. 20:07:04 bsmntbombdood: explanation? 20:07:19 ihope: So.. you would say that if a Befunge variant had only one command, and yet was turing complete, it would be cheating? 20:08:00 TRy just the "INFINITY" macro. 20:08:38 Or HUGE_VAL 20:08:52 for example, X = \x.xKSK 20:08:59 Eh, you can't quite make a prefix-free language with only one symbol Turing-complete. 20:09:11 bsmntbombdood: Error - you need a way to apply 20:09:17 And if you have XY application, you need parentheses. 20:09:20 and ` is applycation 20:09:29 ` and X = two tokens 20:09:34 There'll be only one program... which I guess could itself be Turing-complete. 20:09:35 two tokens responded to differently 20:09:47 ihope: Err, no 20:09:49 ` = \xy.xy 20:09:51 You could have "x" and "xxxxxx" 20:09:58 pikhq: You need to be able to apply that. 20:10:08 ok, fine, encode the goedel number of your program in unary 20:10:08 :/ 20:10:10 "x" and "xxxxxx" can't both be programs in a prefix-free language. 20:10:15 Yes they can 20:10:18 happy? 20:10:20 It's like brainfuck but with one command 20:10:31 Only if you add an EOF symbol, which makes it two. 20:10:42 No - not really 20:10:48 I'm talking about characters that form an actual program 20:10:58 Um... 20:10:59 goedel(X) = 5; goedel(`ab) = 2**(goedel(a)) * 3**goedel(b) 20:11:04 EOF is sufficiently OS-specific that I think we can ignore it :) 20:11:07 ...in unary 20:11:10 there, one token 20:23:13 "prefix-free" 20:23:13 If your language is prefix-free and has only one symbol, there is only one program. 20:23:13 of course 20:23:13 ok you're just twisting my meaning 20:23:13 you >know< what i mean 20:23:13 I am? 20:23:13 i mean one program character 20:23:13 not EOF or any of that 20:23:13 but one character that actually performs a command 20:23:13 ehird`: ENCODE A GOEDEL NUMBER IN UNARY 20:23:13 Ah, so more than one symbol but only one that actually does something. 20:23:13 bsmntbombdood: YES I AM AWARE 20:23:13 ihope: *sigh* no 20:23:13 there's your one token language 20:23:13 imagine a REPL using windows dialog boxes 20:23:13 end of line and end of file are never used 20:23:13 yet, you can have only one single command 20:23:13 ...assuming it's a prefix-free language, which is sort of not an obvious assumption. 20:23:13 and have every token entered into the text box before OK is clicked be the same command 20:23:13 What's a REPL? 20:23:13 read eval print loop 20:23:13 like python's commandline 20:23:13 Mmh. 20:23:13 except with, say, a windows dialog box with a Program: text box 20:23:13 You never get EOL or EOF in the source code, but you can have one single command 20:23:13 So, EOF at the end of a program file is basically platform specific and so we can ignore it 20:23:13 bsmntbombdood: I'm looking at more interesting possibilities, k? 20:23:13 i'm aware you can do that. 20:23:13 any other approche will be the same 20:23:13 no 20:23:13 you could have some wacky thing like 20:23:13 (state, program, position) = blah blah blah blah tons of stuff here 20:23:13 as the one command 20:23:13 perhaps 20:23:13 wrong 20:23:13 perhaps, with a command like that, it could be TC 20:23:13 foo (x:xs) = run x >> foo xs; foo [] = return () 20:23:13 If foo's argument type is [a] where a is a type with only a single value, foo is not TC. 20:23:13 what's >> ? 20:23:13 x >> y = perform x, then perform y, returning whatever y returned 20:23:13 ihope: Except there'd be far more state than that 20:23:13 Far more state than that? 20:23:13 Er, what do you mean? 20:23:13 program counter, full program accessable at any time, program length information, etc 20:23:13 and, of course, there'd be gotos 20:23:13 i though haskell was referentially transparent 20:23:13 and everything 20:23:13 why would you execute something and throw the value away? 20:23:13 so "foo" is .. not what the interp would look like 20:23:13 "Full program accessible at any time" makes it not fit the form of foo. 20:23:13 Because you don't care about the value it returns. 20:23:13 ihope: if X is referentially transparent, throwing the value away means you did computation for no reason 20:23:13 ihope: And exactly 20:23:13 You are the one who specified the form of foo 20:23:13 You're throwing away the return value, but still performing the action. 20:23:13 but in a referentially transparent language, *there are no actions* 20:23:13 monads require having the value in the return value too 20:23:13 In a referentially transparent language, evaluating does not perform an action. 20:23:13 Running might well do so. 20:23:13 where running is defined as "evaluating the entire program with the world as the argument, and then replacing the world with the result of the program" :) 20:23:19 (in the most basic case. Monads allow to do it in steps) 20:23:42 That's one way to define running, but it assumes callCC can be implemented in the real world :-P 20:25:07 heh 20:26:35 predictTheFuture = do x <- getWorld; wait; y <- getWorld; putWorld x; return y 20:49:54 i wonder what the weirdest numeral system we can come up with is 20:49:54 not the digit representation per se 20:49:54 but crazy set theory+some number system that is not the natural numbers, complex, real, etc.+arithmetic operations+numerals 20:49:54 you can easily have a tc language with just one symbol, since one number can store any finite amount of integers as factors (and also in many other ways)... 20:49:54 ...aaaand bsmntbombdood already said that 20:49:54 yes but it is cheating 20:49:54 because behind the scenes there is far more than one command doing the legwork 20:49:54 bsmntbombdood also responded to that exactly as i'd've responded had i not seen it. 20:49:54 it would be the same thing, basically 20:49:54 gah ehird` 20:49:54 the only way to encode data with one symbol is a number in unary 20:49:54 http://www.ugotgames.com/slimesports/volleyball_slime_1p.php god damnit this game is impossible 20:49:54 You've proven it impossible? 20:49:54 no 20:49:54 but it's damn hard 20:49:54 :p 20:49:54 it's impossible because msn messenger pops up all the time. 20:49:54 god i hate that program 20:49:54 it's like computer cancer 20:50:07 there aren't enough internet toys. Things like that Line Rider game 20:50:09 games with no point 20:50:12 i like games with no point 20:50:29 line rider? 20:50:59 http://www.official-linerider.com/play.html 20:51:06 premise: little guy with sled thing 20:51:12 draw a track and watch him ride on it 20:51:14 it's addictive 20:51:46 some of the stuff here: http://www.official-linerider.com/movies_page.html is really impressive 20:53:55 arghggh 20:54:41 these application questions suck 20:55:06 ehird`: how many points have you gotten? 20:55:17 oklokok: on the volleball slime thing? 20:55:19 err - 0 20:55:23 i've never scored 1 point 20:56:33 oh 20:56:45 i've gotten 3 20:56:49 usually i get 1-2 20:56:54 but i'll own it soon 21:00:42 got 4 21:01:06 but i lose a lot of points because i forgot the ball starts on my head and i start moving right away... 21:02:44 one note on linerider: the red lines are insane 21:02:49 they defy the laws of physics 21:02:56 this makes them infinitely more fun 21:06:48 ehird`: i usually lose with 6-4, but my gf beat the opponent already 21:06:55 you suck at that game ;) 21:07:13 =p 21:07:18 there's more levels 21:07:52 wonder if she lied just to annoy me, since i now have to play till i win... :P 21:08:56 i think i will go ride my bike 21:12:56 level 1 clear 21:13:02 6-3 21:14:12 okay... the level 2 guy's serves are too hard for me to return xD 21:20:03 do you know of any other online games like that that aren't completely boring? 21:20:05 most suck 21:20:37 have you tried tower defence games? 21:20:41 some are pretty decent 21:20:51 http://dagobah.biz/flash/CurveBall.swf 21:20:58 one of my personal favorites, that one 21:21:03 (not a tower defence ) 21:21:21 umm how do you play this 21:21:37 oh 21:21:37 3d pong 21:22:51 i've designed a 4d version of that, but i have some trouble making 4 dimensional spins realistin :) 21:22:54 relistic 21:22:57 *realistic 21:23:29 that 3d pong is horribly easy 21:23:29 and wow 21:23:30 that's pretty much the only 3d game the graphics of which i like 21:23:31 that sounds great 21:23:34 easy? 21:23:37 please, post it somewhere 21:23:37 and yes 21:23:38 easy 21:23:42 what level did you get to? 21:23:58 a monkey can get on 8, but you need some skill to get on 9th 21:24:04 and i haven't gotten past that 21:24:21 ah, so it gets hard at 8 21:24:25 yeah 21:24:25 i thought it was very boring.. 21:24:30 (lvl 4.) 21:24:33 but i have a touchpad mouse... 21:24:38 i was hoping for.. a quicker sort of progression in hardness 21:24:48 1-6 are so easy you can't tell them apart 21:24:50 yeah 21:25:34 the progression isn't nice, because the challenge it @ 8 and you have to play a lot of trivial stages to be able to retry it... not that rewarding 21:26:43 i hate how you don't get replenished lives 21:26:48 whereas the opponent does 21:26:49 unfair :p 21:26:59 i never fail before level 8 really 21:27:00 :) 21:27:02 game over on level 7, d'awww. 21:27:09 ok, now let's do that again.. 21:28:57 i would very much like to see the 4d version 21:29:05 it's pretty awesome in my head 21:31:08 "Two players compete over the network and wear 3D glasses to see the games full effect." 21:31:11 now that's what i call 3d pong 21:31:53 heh 21:33:31 i'm doing 4th dimension with sound 21:33:47 sweet 21:33:49 what language 21:34:57 do you know what happens when you play two sounds simultaneously and one approaches the other in frequency? 21:35:34 i'm gonna use the bee effect to make it clear when to hit the ball 21:36:08 i'm not sure if it's called "the bee effect" in english, but it's pretty descriptive nevertheless 21:36:09 could you elaborate on how that works? 21:36:58 basically you'll have 2 joysticks and move around in a cube using them 21:37:06 RodgerTheGreat: i think i understand 21:37:17 RodgerTheGreat: sound 1: 0, sound 2: 100 21:37:21 then, it goes sound 1: 1, sound 2: 99 21:37:24 until they are equal 21:37:26 (i know, one axes would be useless then) 21:37:27 and that is in frequency 21:37:41 ehird`: almost 21:37:42 presumably, when it's at middle point, you must hit the bat 21:37:46 then the rest of the slide is it going the other way 21:38:32 Ooo. I'm playing that 3D Pong game. My first go and I made it up to level 5. 21:38:39 well, exactly like that, except a bit more logical, there's two frequencies, say 440 and 880 for each of the paddles, and one frequency for the ball 21:39:21 and the ball slides towards the paddle it is travelling towards? 21:39:22 so basically every object has 3d position in the cube shown with its physical location, and it's 4-dimensional "height" shown with the tune it produces 21:39:24 in frequency 21:39:28 oh 21:39:30 i don't like that 21:39:34 4d only through sound? 21:39:35 why? 21:39:40 you really need some sort of graphical representation 21:39:47 well, color as well, but that's not as useful. 21:39:48 When you know how, it gets a bit easier. I passed level easily; by putting a curve on the ball as I initially launched it, I got it pastg my opponent every time without them even managing to hit it back. 21:39:51 it'll be much easier to play 21:39:56 ^passed level 4 easily 21:39:57 and colour is not easy to relate to another dimension 21:40:04 ^past 21:40:06 try an inside/outside representation 21:40:11 Ciaran_H: yes, the first easy 6 ones are like that. 21:40:21 ehird`: huh? 21:40:23 oklokok: like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Hypercube.svg 21:41:20 some animation examples: 21:41:23 single rotation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:8-cell-simple.gif 21:41:29 double rotation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tesseract.gif 21:41:43 (Of course, imagine it is filled in with a translucent colour like that svg) 21:41:52 god that's sexy <3 21:42:02 but that wouldn't work. 21:42:02 heh 21:42:11 you cannot do it by location. 21:42:11 why not? 21:42:13 it would be pwnawesome 21:42:52 hmm... you could have the ball be where the camera is located 21:43:11 maybe you could have the camera "outside" of the playing field 21:43:13 actually no, that wouldn't work either. 21:43:20 and have it slightly zoom in/rotate/etc to get the best position 21:44:01 i don't see how a 4d->2d projection would be possible... 21:44:19 i've just given you three examples :) 21:44:28 of course, an option is to make the projection 3d 21:44:34 this means harder coding but easier to represent 4d 21:44:47 alternately, try and model it as best as you can with 2d. you won't get it perfect; but playability is key 21:45:13 the two last ones are the same 21:45:18 and the first i couldn't open 21:45:26 the two last ones are NOT the same 21:45:28 look carefully 21:45:37 first one - "A 3D projection of an 8-cell performing a simple rotation about a plane which bisects the figure from front-left to back-right and top to bottom." 21:45:42 second one - "A 3D projection of an 8-cell performing a double rotation about two orthogonal planes." 21:45:46 the fact the latter has a 3d-rotation included doesn't really make it different 21:45:51 notice how the second one is spinning in 3 dimensions as well as 4 21:45:51 ah, ok 21:45:56 try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hypercube.svg 21:46:00 that has a preview not in svg 21:46:10 the idea is the latter two's animation with that sort of colouring 21:46:55 it is worth noting that in N-dimensional pong the paddles can only move in (N - 1) dimensions 21:46:57 hmm... if you had the cam always be directioned at the ball, but make the cam stay still 21:47:00 normal pong - up and down 21:47:03 3d pong - up down left right 21:47:09 4d pong - up down left right forward backward 21:47:16 so the only thing that has to move 4 dimensionally is the ball 21:47:20 yes, i'm not an idiot :) 21:47:24 :p 21:47:50 and that camera idea seems good yes 21:47:52 anyway, with that cam thing even 3d ping pong would be almost impossible... 21:48:09 i 21:48:10 *k 21:48:31 of course, stupid making a 4d game without any weird 4d rotations :P 21:49:23 what about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glass_tesseract_animation.gif 21:49:30 that combines the shading and the animation 21:49:34 in double rotation 21:49:40 and i honestly think something like that would work fine in a game 21:49:50 minus all the flashy reflections and all that 21:50:37 oh my god... i can't take that beauty anymore 21:51:35 heh 21:51:37 it is quite nice 21:52:39 the ball should be a 24-cell doing double rotation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:24-cell.gif 21:52:39 wish i could create graphics like that. 21:53:18 that's done with some sort of 3d program that can do that 21:53:20 not manually 21:53:32 yeah, so you could see in which direction it's rotating ;) 21:53:49 Okay: 21:53:56 how about graphics like 4d rubiks cube: http://www.superliminal.com/cube/mc4dswing.jar 21:53:57 except more packed 21:53:57 i know, wish i could create that nice 3d graphics with my computer 21:55:52 i mean, like http://www.superliminal.com/cube/mc4dswing.jar more packed, but without the 3d 21:55:59 a 2d analogy, kinda 21:56:47 only 5 ppl in the world have solved the 5-dimension rubik's cube 21:56:59 s/only/ 21:57:39 there's this finnish adolescent who solves the cube with his feet in like a minute 21:57:51 okay, thats 5 dimensional 21:57:52 http://www.superliminal.com/cube/mc4dswing.jar is 4 21:57:57 i know 21:58:02 i have eyes :) 21:58:18 =p 22:01:30 blurgh, school today. 22:05:09 :p 22:07:34 hmm 22:08:00 can you circumvent messenger's stupid smileys if you want other ppl not to see them as well? 22:08:16 like a code for a *raw* ":)" 22:10:33 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:10:50 nope 22:10:59 you sure? 22:11:06 that's quite... retarded 22:11:12 asojoaejrgoijrefg 22:11:22 i hate those smileys, and i want to ruin the fun for others too 22:11:26 :D 22:22:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Success). 22:22:34 i wonder what the most politically correct language is 22:23:07 "There's a type of person known as a 'carrier'. They carry data to other people! They do not go slower depending on who you are, get paid very well, and are happy people!" 22:23:42 that's a bad definition 22:23:48 use of "you" is ambiguous 22:24:48 heh 22:24:51 is that a joke or serious? :p 22:26:13 i'm 100% serious. 22:26:19 always 22:26:21 really 22:26:55 :p 22:27:06 hmm. can you emulate "not" with xor, and, or? 22:28:01 hmm... doubt it 22:29:32 x|x=x, x^x=0... so you can take any composite expression of those two and reduce it into either of those 22:29:42 ah 22:29:43 sorry 22:29:49 ? 22:30:03 x^1 = !x 22:30:06 i'm an idiot 22:30:24 ahhh yes# 22:30:43 but... can you do it without constants 22:31:18 x|0=0|x=x, x^0=0^x=x, so no, you can't 22:31:41 (you can only make 0 and x out of ^ and |, and you can't make a 1 out of them) 22:32:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:32:57 i updated the yael spec 22:33:01 now you can do reasonable jumps with it 22:33:02 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael 22:33:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:33:34 yayl \o/ 22:33:50 16 opcodes, and yet you could still use it if you're good with low level stuff 22:34:06 ok, first person to write hello world in the new Yael wins a prize. or i'll do it :) 22:34:16 then, the competition for the music-producing program is back on :) 22:34:22 well, note-slide-producing program really. 22:34:38 i'm not gonna program that blindfold... 22:34:50 hello world is... really quite easy to do in yael. 22:35:00 but fine 22:35:02 i'll rewrite the old one :p 22:35:46 hmm 22:35:51 i'll program anything with it if someone makes an interpreter... :) 22:35:51 yael needs a way to access the program counter 22:35:57 i'll make an interpreter sometime 22:36:06 should the program counter be in memory or a register 22:36:06 then i'll do stuff. 22:36:07 i think memory 22:36:20 you got 8 registers? 22:36:31 yeah i guess 22:36:31 yeah 22:36:42 you could waste on for that 22:36:42 but the problem is 22:36:45 since jumping is in bits 22:36:54 *onew 22:36:54 you can't store a full program counter, 22:36:56 *one 22:36:59 in the machine 22:37:11 hmm really? 22:37:14 yes 22:37:24 the registers contain 1 byte 22:37:35 hmm... and the memory is? 22:37:35 the program+data can be ~255 bytes 22:37:38 how big 22:37:39 and the counter is in bits 22:37:50 and the memory is 8-bit-address-worth, all 1 byte 22:37:52 one register can then store the counter 22:38:08 >no< it cannot 22:38:11 the counter is in >bits< 22:38:17 but the program can be 255 >bytse< 22:38:26 so you can't fit it into 1 byte. 22:38:35 ah sorry 22:38:53 can you look at the spec, and tell me if the jumping semantics are reasonable? 22:38:55 i mean; i dunno 22:39:03 jumping relatively all the time might suck 22:39:41 it makes no sense. 22:39:44 1011 AAA BBB CCC 22:39:44 If the value in register A equals the value in register B, jump forwards C bits. 22:40:19 yes it does. 22:40:20 "C bits" should be "N bits, where N is the number in register C" 22:40:26 yes; whatever 22:40:29 you get the idea 22:40:31 you know what it means 22:40:32 i do. 22:40:37 is it reasonable. 22:40:45 just pointer it out because i'm a mean bastard 22:40:50 mwahaha 22:40:54 *pointed 22:41:25 is it reasonable. 22:42:11 well, not really 22:42:18 because it's inconsistent 22:42:39 whuh 22:42:40 how come 22:43:23 well 22:43:30 is it turing complete as far as 1 byte registers allow? 22:43:35 (you know what i mean) 22:44:22 "If *the value in register A* equals *the value in register B*, jump forwards *C* bits." C bits means.. C bits, not register C's value bits 22:44:32 we should all speak lojban. 22:44:34 .D 22:44:34 god DAMNIT 22:44:42 I am >not talking< about the definition there! 22:44:48 I mean the >semantics as in how it actually works< 22:44:53 not >how i define it in natural language< 22:44:56 i'm just commenting on what you said earlier 22:45:09 as i'm not here all the time, i have a life you know, like 10 irc windows! 22:45:29 that's tc all right. 22:45:45 there should be a term for being asm-tc 22:46:07 like, "turing complete as far as the finite address size allows"? 22:46:12 heh 22:46:15 yeah :P 22:46:19 but 22:46:22 how can it be turing complete? 22:46:25 you can't use the value twice 22:46:32 the value can only apply to one instruction in code 22:46:50 after that, it jumps to something else 22:46:54 spof? 22:47:02 AND you can't access the program counter to make it work relative to the current position 22:47:09 hmm, i'll rethink. 22:47:24 the jumps are relative to the start of the jumping instruction 22:47:25 i.e. 22:47:46 BLAH(1011 | 1100)AAABBBCCCBLAH 22:47:49 ^ 22:48:00 the ^ is where "the register that C references contains 0" would jump to 22:48:16 you prolly have every jump have just two possible branchings, where the other one is "don't jump", in a real program written in that 22:48:27 ? 22:48:40 i'm not seeing the problem yet, let me think a while. 22:49:13 "(ehird`) you can't use the value twice" <<< *the value*? 22:49:21 argh 22:49:26 you can't use the same "value-in-C" twice 22:49:32 oh 22:49:32 because it will jump to a different place./ 22:49:33 why? 22:49:40 eh... no 22:49:46 because the jumps are >RELATIVE to the start of the current instruction< 22:49:48 if jumping from the same line 22:49:52 well DUH 22:49:55 but jumping from elsewhere. 22:50:03 ...then you use a different CCC... 22:50:03 and you can't correct it because you can't access the program counter 22:50:22 but what if you have a CCC passed to you? 22:50:25 an address to jump to. 22:50:28 you precalculate those, i don't see the problem in having a different one for each jump-start-location 22:50:29 and you want to have it work on multiple lines 22:50:33 this is turing-complete-threatening i'm sure 22:51:13 you just need loops for tc-ness... 22:51:23 you don't need to be able to pass a pointer-to-code around 22:51:29 yes - exactly, you can have no "continue" or "break" 22:51:40 since you will only be able to do "next iteration of loop", at a certain instruction location 22:51:51 that's nice if you want continuations, but hey, no one's gonna implement aything like that anyway :) 22:51:53 *anything 22:51:53 and there is no way to correct it without simply manually subtracting the line difference 22:52:21 what about functions?? 22:52:26 this will make functions almost impossible 22:52:33 yes. 22:52:41 that's bad 22:52:47 this isn't meant to be very very hard to use 22:54:19 this is exactly what happens when you don't align by bytes :) 22:56:30 you could have 4 bit jumps and 16 registers... 22:56:53 then you could have functions if you fit them close enough to their caller :) 22:57:13 because you could jump half the memory in one go 22:57:55 aligning by bytes -- boo hiss! i want small instructions 22:58:23 oh well, anyway 22:58:31 how about we'll test its usefuless with the competition: 22:58:33 well, you could align by 4-bits, and have only slightly bigger opcodes 22:58:34 have two voices A and B 22:58:40 as i recommendedededed 22:58:51 when you're going to play a note, play A's note, then B's note, then A's note, then B's note, very quickly 22:59:11 let A's pitch be and B's be 22:59:27 forever: play a note. decrease A's pitch, increase B's. 22:59:39 When A reaches the maximum and B reaches the minimum, restart the process in reverse, etc. 22:59:54 So, you have a slide going up...down...up...down with two voices at once, each going the opposite direction 23:00:03 that is easy with just looping. 23:00:07 yes 23:00:13 so write it :) 23:00:26 i want functions!! :) 23:00:59 shush this is asm territory little schemer :p 23:01:18 if you added the 8 registers, you'd only have a bit bigger opcodes, and the program counter would fit a register etc... 23:01:41 (though you'd have a limit of 128 bytes for the actual program then...) 23:04:19 meh 23:04:33 i still think the best test of the instruction set's suitibility is the music program. 23:09:01 0000 000 00000000, 0000 001 11111111, 0000 002 00000001, 0000 003 xxxxxxxx, 1101 002 000, 0101 000 002, 0110 001 002, 1100 000 000 003 23:09:04 smth like that? 23:09:45 god it's hard probramming assembly in an irc window when people keep flashing the taskbar on my writing with their messengers :P 23:10:07 music program? 23:11:18 oklokok: now find out x, and optionally write comments :p 23:11:20 ehird`: i don't know the spesifics of the sound output, so i didn't include delay there, but it's pretty triv, also i didn't feel like calculating the value of 003, since i'm lazy 23:11:37 wait what, there is no delay 23:11:39 i'd prolly make a macro system for that before playing more with that 23:11:44 the register contains the memory system which is: 23:11:46 err 23:11:48 memory address 23:11:50 which is, starting from it: 23:11:57 0,1 = pitch 23:12:02 2,3 = length 23:12:08 same as win32's "Beep" function. 23:12:35 oh, then you'd need a few lines to put those in the memory first 23:12:47 but.. you have to change the pitch each time 23:12:52 but anyway, it's a trivial isomorphy with that code 23:12:56 if you commented your code i could perhaps point out where you went wrong :) 23:12:56 err i do. 23:13:16 i have 0 255 1 254 2 253 3 252 etc. progression 23:13:17 crap, now this neural net library doesn't seem to work 23:13:19 that wraps around 23:13:33 Wait. . . Are you guys devising an assembly language with output as *notes*? 23:13:45 i shove stuff into the neural net, and it always outputs 0 :( 23:13:51 it should output sheet music 23:13:55 pikhq: there's notes and normal output 23:14:12 Sounds like x86 when you assume a PC speaker, then. 23:14:19 yes 23:14:23 and no 23:14:26 hmm 23:14:43 actually, no. 23:14:47 but close to that 23:15:38 hmm... okay, i don't remember x86 pc speaker spesifics... it always has *a* frequency it's using for the sounds, and you can pause it by putting 0? 23:15:44 is it like that 23:17:44 no.. 23:17:49 it is exactly x86 speaker 23:17:56 oh 23:17:58 also. 23:18:01 it is not 255! 23:18:06 are you... sure? 23:18:07 please, read the info for the port!. 23:18:10 urghhhhhh! 23:18:12 It's !255? 23:18:17 Or ~255? 23:18:25 255! is a really big number!! 23:18:25 considering its semantics are identical to win32's Beep function WHICH USES THE PC SPEAKER, it might just be identical! 23:18:26 funny that 23:18:33 * ehird` cools off 23:18:41 LMAO 23:18:45 i somewhat feel the asm OUT in x86 doesn't lookup anything from the memory... 23:19:00 ehird`: beep != OUT 23:19:10 what do you mean, beep != OUT 23:19:11 oh 23:19:12 right 23:19:14 well duh 23:19:15 apart from that 23:19:18 OUT, the x86 version of that. 23:19:19 now please read the documentation of Yael 23:19:25 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael all of it :p 23:19:29 then you'll understand, the beep 23:19:35 because really it is quite simple 23:19:41 i could draw a helpful diagram? 23:19:42 everyone understands it, i'm just asking how it works in asm 23:19:48 because i don't remeeeebr 23:20:10 well. no 23:20:14 if you understood it. your code would be right :) 23:20:19 but you're wrapping at 256 23:20:31 as i said, trivial isomorphism, thus no need to change it. 23:20:39 oh that's great 23:20:41 my entry: "" 23:20:49 everything has a trivial isomorphism to the null program! i win! 23:21:00 i... rather doubt that 23:21:14 isomorphism on programs? 23:21:22 i have the semantics right, you just need to put those values in the memory and give that memory address... 23:21:28 instead of the actual values 23:21:34 that's like 4 ops more 23:21:58 so you'd think i could just put them there... but no, i'm just that lazy 23:22:09 how about reading the Yael spec 23:22:12 and seeing if your program is right 23:22:15 because it's probably not :p 23:22:17 it's not. 23:23:05 i doubt it's a "trivial isomorphism" to the correct one either :) 23:24:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:24:39 hmm 23:24:49 i'm quite sure i'll run out of code soace. 23:24:51 *space 23:26:58 highly unlikely 23:27:17 i don't know why everyone's saying "omg i'll run out of codespace 23:27:19 it's not happening 23:30:22 Everyone's saying "omg I'll run out of codespace"? 23:30:43 ...what is codespace? 23:31:57 ehird`: big or small endian? 23:32:28 oklokok: big-end-first :) 23:32:31 so.. small 23:32:37 no, big 23:32:40 that's big endian 23:33:27 no 23:33:28 that's smallendian 23:33:42 oh 23:33:42 yes 23:33:43 big endian 23:33:44 heh 23:39:23 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p352621531.txt 23:40:06 you don't have a 23:40:10 "if reach limits, reverse direction" 23:40:14 :) 23:40:22 ture. 23:40:24 i have to go now - please send me a memoserv msg if you get it done 23:40:26 or put it in the topic 23:40:27 or something 23:40:28 bye! :) 23:40:30 err okay 23:40:52 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:42:13 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 2007-08-14: 00:00:05 blargh, this is pretty tedious stuff manually :PP 00:00:46 i'd really like to debug the program sofar before adding direction reversing... 00:00:52 not that he's here anymore 00:02:53 bloopp 00:07:19 i love asm <3 00:07:41 especially when writing mnemoniclessly 00:45:25 -!- Figs has joined. 00:47:43 !bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------. 00:47:53 !bf +[+] 00:48:08 did I get the wrong command? 00:48:09 :P 00:48:38 eg is not here 00:48:43 oh 00:48:46 :S 00:48:51 >>> bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------. 00:48:51 j^ 00:48:52 EgoBot is buggy. 00:49:12 Or, more accurately, EgoBot still manages to take 100% of my CPU when you jerks force it to. 00:49:23 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------. 00:49:23 th 00:49:23 sorry :( 00:49:36 GregorR: so 1) renice it 2) limit its cpu usage? 00:49:47 3) detect infinite loops 00:49:53 lament: I've done both of those. 00:50:01 I haven't limited its absolute usage. 00:50:16 Which I'm doing now :P 00:50:20 GregorR: proc limits 00:50:28 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.---.+++++++++. 00:50:28 then 00:50:30 ...renice? 00:50:36 bsmntbombdood: Got all those, it just still allows infinite loops. 00:50:52 whuz "renice"? 00:51:03 put a .001 second sleep between every instruction 00:51:12 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:51:22 oklokok: What bsmntbombdood just said is not renice. 00:51:27 bsmntbombdood: I didn't write the interpreters. 00:51:36 bsmntbombdood: However, I am doing that :P 00:51:39 run them in a vm 00:51:46 bsmntbombdood: But with eight running, they still collectively fuck up my system X-P 00:51:49 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.---.+++++++++.>++++[>++++<-]>[<++>-]<.<. 00:51:50 then n 00:51:58 GregorR: then what is it? 00:52:14 oklokok: Oh, go get a real OS and look it up yourself :P 00:52:39 oklokok: man renice 00:52:51 GregorR: because you should limit collective usage, duh :) 00:53:04 i thought it was an english word i don't know 00:53:11 lament: Clearly - but I haven't found a good way to do that when I'm just system()'ing. 00:53:19 >>> bf ++++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>+.---------. 00:53:20 [R 00:53:34 but indeed, unix prolly has stuff like that 00:53:35 [well, not system()'ing, but fork+execing, same idea] 00:53:36 >>> bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------. 00:53:37 e\ 00:53:39 :S 00:53:49 I can't count 00:54:01 !bf +[>+] 00:54:07 realloc: Cannot allocate memory 00:54:08 no ololobot pm? 00:54:11 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------. 00:54:12 of 00:54:23 !bf +[++] 00:54:39 GregorR: i don't know either :) 00:55:09 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<---.++++++++++++. 00:55:09 of } 00:55:15 get a real os and that's easy to do 00:55:18 I gave it maximum two minutes CPU time, but I'm also limiting it to 33% CPU, so I guess it has six minutes time :P 00:55:40 oklokok: Name one. And no, it's not even close to possible in Windows. 00:55:44 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<---.<++++++++++++. 00:55:45 of }r 00:55:57 my opinion is there isn't one 00:56:02 Heh X-D 00:56:20 Which is why he uses Windows, because it's obviously as close to the real one as can be ;D 00:56:24 http://www.codu.org/slox.php < my current solution 00:56:30 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>. 00:56:31 of 00:56:39 +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<. 00:56:43 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<. 00:56:43 of 00:56:49 i use both unix and windows, unix is better but my laptop feels nice on my lap. 00:57:11 * GregorR 's laptop runs GNU/Linux *shrugs* 00:57:40 So can our EgoBot crashing ability break slox, GregorR ? 00:57:54 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<. 00:57:55 n n 00:58:04 Figs: what are you doing? 00:58:13 trying to figure out how to write "of course" 00:58:15 Sukoshi: No - but it runs one slox per process, so three processes = 100% CPU 00:58:21 but I sux0r :P 00:58:36 GregorR: Ah. 00:59:06 GregorR: can't you just store the pids and renice when it opens new processes? 00:59:36 oklokok: niceness doesn't actually limit CPU usage, it just changes priority. 00:59:48 how do you change cpu usage then? 00:59:48 Write your own scheduler! 00:59:55 oklokok: I use slox :P 00:59:55 *limit 01:00:00 I want my room not to be so hot from my P4 :P 01:00:06 i'll be uplooking then. 01:00:29 That BF should be close to dying now. 01:00:31 GregorR: Then get something other than a P4, dummy! :p 01:00:44 pikhq: Good thing I have giant piles of money lying around. 01:00:48 I think GregorR wants his room to be hot because of himself. 01:00:49 what's slox? 01:00:52 Yay, it died 8-D 01:00:58 oklokok: http://www.codu.org/slox.php 01:01:00 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.[>+>+<<-]>>---------.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<---. 01:01:01 of c 01:01:08 Ain't it though? 01:01:34 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.[>+>+<<-]>>---------.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<---.<.++++++.---.+.--------------. 01:01:34 of course 01:01:37 yay! 01:01:49 GregorR: why doesn't what i said apply then? 01:02:06 if that can change cpu usage via pid 01:02:57 oklokok: Oh, I see what you're saying. Adjust such that everything is at .3/ 01:03:01 Well that's a good point. 01:03:21 yeah 01:03:34 shouldn't be too hard 01:03:37 though might be. 01:04:12 wow, what a waste of my time 01:04:20 I can't even post it as a comment 01:04:31 8 hours till school 01:04:33 ] is disallowed 01:04:38 hey oklokok 01:04:42 hey Figs 01:04:42 did you ever play my song...? 01:04:46 :D 01:04:47 :D 01:05:01 i was on camp... and i've been idling for a week now :\ 01:05:04 so... no :< 01:05:07 rofl 01:05:13 ok 01:05:16 are you ever going to? 01:05:19 or did you give up? 01:05:52 if i printed the score, it shouldn't be that hard, it's just a bit tedious reading from the screenm 01:05:55 *sceen 01:05:56 *screen 01:06:00 yeah 01:06:38 i can play most parts though, i just don't remember all of it without the score 01:07:17 there's the one quite mean part in the middle that i might need to work a bit 01:07:22 :D 01:07:36 * Figs is evil? :P 01:07:45 i've seen eviler :) 01:07:53 pieces, not people though! 01:08:01 :P 01:08:03 you're the most evil 01:08:13 horray! 01:08:14 http://cid-c86a72bd35ce57db.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Transfer/5.mid 01:08:23 it's not the song, it's all the cigarettes you're smoking in my head 01:08:34 ... :P 01:08:35 you're like the mafioso from hell 01:08:42 too bad I don't smoke 01:08:44 or drink 01:08:47 i do know that 01:08:57 * Figs rots in the corner for a while 01:09:23 new piece I just wrote today 01:09:31 I know it still needs work 01:09:34 :P 01:09:58 did you compose that? 01:10:01 yes 01:10:09 that's a lot more impressive 01:10:13 thank you ;) 01:10:33 can you play that one? 01:10:36 parts of it 01:10:43 I know the entire song is playable though 01:11:06 sounds easier to play than the other one 01:11:12 I'm sure it is 01:11:54 it's loosely based on Sonata form 01:12:33 C major - C minor - G major 01:12:39 the three sections 01:12:41 ah, yeah 01:12:59 the second theme should remind you a bit of Mozart's Sonata No. 16 in C 01:13:11 i know very little names. 01:13:13 since that's where I got the idea to write a sonata-ish song 01:13:21 i have no idea what 16 is 01:13:22 http://www.kunstderfuge.com/-/midi.asp?file=mozart/piano_sonata_545_1_(c)oguri.mid 01:13:25 it's that one 01:14:09 that change to minor was the thing i was most impressed by, it's a bit less impressive now that i know you did it knowingly :) 01:14:32 ... 01:14:35 rofl 01:14:37 :D 01:14:50 it should be more impressive that I did it knowingly 01:14:57 i don't do much ...non-polyphonic music on piano nowadays 01:15:09 I'm trying to arrange this one 01:15:23 but it doesn't seem to be quite sonata like any more when I do 01:16:00 not imo, i think it's pretty impressive if you'd copy a trick like that from classical music without noticing it. 01:16:46 http://www.kunstderfuge.com/-/midi.asp?file=mozart/piano_sonata_545_1_(c)oguri.mid <<< doesn't work 01:16:52 i mean, the url 01:19:19 copy and paste 01:19:56 oh 01:23:27 http://cid-c86a72bd35ce57db.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Transfer/Sonata3tmp.mid 01:23:48 you can see what I mean 01:25:21 yeah 01:27:55 how is the melody though? 01:28:41 nice and zelda :) 01:28:45 :P 01:29:00 you like the additional relative minor extention to the theme? 01:29:12 (the backround is pretty zelda, that is) 01:29:16 0:19-end 01:31:09 hmm 01:31:13 in the long version 01:31:15 ? 01:35:07 damn i gotta go sleep some. 01:35:37 Figs: did you write those MIDIs? 01:36:47 yes rodger 01:36:57 absolutely fantastic work 01:36:57 oklokok: Go sleep then :D 01:37:03 thank you :) 01:37:21 I'm truly impressed- the sonata is beautiful 01:37:34 you're talking about mine, right, and not the Mozart one? 01:37:46 * Figs is just checking 01:38:09 (the ones on Windows Live are mine) 01:38:15 yeah 01:38:20 thanks :) 01:38:49 going to sleep is hard. 01:38:50 have you ever considered composing music for games? 01:38:57 yes 01:39:35 I haven't quite got a game together yet to do the music for 01:39:49 but I have some ideas once I do 01:41:24 I'm in the process of building a series of libraries and game engines to help speed up game development with Java- a couple demos of what I'm working on are here http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CRPG/ and here http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/steamlock/ 01:41:43 would you be interested in teaming up? 01:42:05 could be fun 01:42:15 I must warn you though I have a tendancy to get side tracked :P 01:42:22 haha, same here 01:42:38 I've got like a dozen projects :P 01:42:46 well, more like half a dozen 01:42:51 I'm not *that* bad (yet) 01:42:52 but I figure music, like art, is something that can be slowly made a little at a time as a game is developed 01:43:09 yeah 01:43:21 but if you're just sitting around trying to build an engine... :P 01:43:27 if you could stir yourself to make a track every few weeks, I could furnish games around them 01:43:43 i have over 100 projects unfinished easily :< 01:44:01 I'm probably getting close to 1000 01:44:11 my "projects" folder tells me I have about 18 in the works 01:44:14 if you count every time I start a song and don't finish it 01:44:27 44.1khz 16 bit PCM 01:44:48 if you count in *all* the stuff i have not finished, then i might be close to 1000 as well... 01:44:54 i just meant programming projects 01:45:05 I'd probably actually finish a game except that I'm terrible at pixel art 01:45:21 pixel art is one of my specialties. :D 01:45:26 perfect :) 01:45:40 I'm actually working on some projects that will be very useful for a game engine later 01:45:44 in C++ though 01:46:00 well, even if we can't share code, we can still share ideas and assets 01:46:08 yeah 01:46:33 right now, I'm building a reusable scripting engine that's easy to splice into an existing game engine 01:46:46 that's kind of what I'm doing, except not... :P 01:47:12 I wrote basically a runtime defined class a couple days ago 01:47:13 if you're interested in poking around at what I've completed, take a look at this: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CogEngine/CogEngineA01.zip 01:47:42 and I'm working on a dynamic table class right now 01:47:59 I have a basic parser done, but it needs a lot of work to really be useable 01:48:08 I'm basically implementing a modified version of FORTH with a system for extending the language with class-specific functions 01:48:20 ah 01:48:44 so far, I'm more or less set, aside from flow control 01:48:48 the way my code actually seems, it's like I'm building a scripting language inside C++ :P 01:48:51 ok 01:49:05 you're implementing forth in java? 01:49:09 you're truly insane 01:49:12 :P 01:49:21 and I'm not crazier? 01:49:22 #1) a minimal subset 01:49:35 #2) less of FORTH's odd low-level stuff 01:49:49 it's more like a language *inspired* by FORTH 01:49:56 but... why not just embed a real language? 01:50:06 this is a real language 01:50:09 i'm sure there's foo-in-jvm for some useful values of foo 01:50:20 sure, but you have to write it instead of concentrating on the game 01:50:41 developing the library is what I'm all about 01:50:54 anybody can glue together a bunch of chunks of the Java API and call it good 01:51:05 I'm working to make things elegant 01:51:28 and this certainly isn't the only thing I'm working on 01:51:32 While I tend to agree with you, it's also a big reason why most people never finish things... :) 01:51:47 yes, "reinventing the wheel" is. 01:51:48 if(-1 < 0) exit(0); // Can you tell me the scenarios where this *won't* exit? 01:52:01 language? 01:52:02 lament: except when it's for fun 01:52:03 C 01:52:25 RodgerTheGreat: no, when it's for fun it's still a reason why people never finish things. 01:52:40 1) when the code is completely skipped by, example, another block around it 01:53:36 I'll let you know if I can think of a #2) 01:53:58 Okay, fine. 01:54:20 So it's: if(mem_offset < 0) ERROR("Went left of the array.\n"); 01:54:37 And my printfs tell me that mem_offset == -1. 01:54:47 rafb.net/paste 01:54:59 let's see what you got :D 01:55:06 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bfi.c 01:55:22 that works too 01:56:07 where's your error? 01:56:11 or not working bit? 01:56:15 In the "<" block. 01:57:46 i'd look at it if the mime type was set correctly! :) 01:58:01 (firefox doesn't want to display it) 01:58:07 type error 01:58:16 mem_offset is an unsigned value 01:58:20 Oh. 01:58:20 isn't it? 01:58:24 Duh. 01:58:35 that's reason #2, I guess 01:58:38 * pikhq feels stupid. 01:59:05 don't feel too stupid, that one got me too for a few minutes. 01:59:17 Now to see what the other bug is. 01:59:26 what other bug? 01:59:32 The program I was testing it on, in egobfi8, doesn't go left in the array. 01:59:38 Well, doesn't go that far left. 02:00:09 if you go too far left, then effectively, you end up at 0xFFFFFFFF I think, assuming 32 bit 02:00:18 (03:53:07) (pikhq) So it's: if(mem_offset < 0) ERROR("Went left of the array.\n"); 02:00:18 (03:53:24) (pikhq) And my printfs tell me that mem_offset == -1. 02:00:29 hah, i figured it out without seeing the code :) 02:00:47 Figs: Yeah, that's how I found out that that was even an issue. . . 02:01:00 Believe it or not, realloc blows up on something insane like that. 02:01:04 :P 02:01:30 oklokok, you're supposed to be sleeping :P 02:02:50 why not just go C++ and use a deque? 02:03:04 then you can go left as much as you want 02:03:08 oh 02:03:11 indeed i am :\ 02:03:22 you sure this isn't my dream? 02:03:25 sleep chatting, eh, oklokok? :P 02:03:28 I've done it before 02:03:34 dream chats... 02:03:39 i did just own you all by seeing through that error like a glass window 02:03:41 I'm pretty sure this isn't your dream though 02:03:49 sounds like a dream to me 02:03:52 i rarely own 02:04:02 i often irc in my dreams 02:04:03 actually 02:04:04 re-read what you just said 02:04:12 if it still says the same thing 02:04:14 you're awake 02:04:24 that trick doesn't work for me, i've tried it in my sleep 02:04:24 that's one way to test if you're asleep 02:04:30 ok, then pull your finger 02:04:37 and believe it will stretch 02:04:42 WILL it to stretch 02:04:55 it's not stretching, huh? :P 02:04:58 nope :P 02:05:02 you're awake. 02:05:04 And so am I. 02:05:24 Well. . . 02:05:29 :P 02:05:41 ok, you can be asleep pikhq. But neither of us. 02:05:58 RodgerTheGreat, are you interested in doing graphics for a platformer, by chance? 02:06:11 I think that what's in memory does not at all match the actual file. 02:06:28 I get to 2053 in the "to_interp" string. . . 02:06:35 Printf says that's a ]. 02:06:36 o.o 02:06:47 My file says that it's a *completely* different character. 02:06:49 Figs: I'd be happy to help out with whatever you need 02:06:57 what type of platformer are we talking? 02:07:06 explorer/adventure 02:07:14 sounds like fun 02:07:29 I have a few ideas for it, but not the full thing yet 02:08:48 Can you see anything else that's wrong in my bfi.c 02:08:48 ? 02:09:00 Preferably before I stab gcc. 02:10:36 nothing comes to mind 02:10:42 doesn't mean it's right though :P 02:11:05 In fact, it's 100% *guaranteed* to be wrong. ;) 02:12:01 now you've got me wanting to write a BF interpreter 02:12:05 BUT 02:12:17 I shall not give in just yet 02:12:24 I will wait till I finish my new parser 02:12:27 and do that as a test 02:56:13 -!- jix has joined. 03:06:38 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 03:34:37 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:26:48 'night, everyone 04:27:04 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 04:28:00 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 04:28:36 nvm 04:28:59 -!- RodgerTheGreat has changed nick to RodgerTheZZzz. 04:39:13 `night 04:49:17 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:22:16 bf is easy 06:22:47 Trivial, even. 06:22:57 (in conclusion, I hate C) 06:23:02 I love C 06:23:28 >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.[>+>+<<-]>>---------.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<---.<.++++++.---.+.--------------. 06:23:29 of course 06:23:40 When a language makes you wonder "Why the hell is my *Brainfuck* interpreter not working", I tend to hate it. 06:24:01 i need to write a bf in bf 06:24:15 good luck with that 06:24:42 write a C compiler in BF! 06:24:50 that's pointless 06:25:09 ... and then... run it with C? 06:25:12 meta! 06:25:16 * Figs runs away 06:25:49 movie time 06:26:36 i hate the fucking dead pixel on my monitor :( 06:27:09 lol 06:27:26 it's red :( 06:31:04 stab it 06:32:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:33:12 >>> bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 06:33:12 Hello World! 06:33:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:34:05 >>> bf ,[.,]<< >>> bf ,[.,] << ? 06:34:23 no shift 06:34:32 don't you need a shift? 06:34:35 oh 06:34:36 nevermind 06:34:45 I thought you were doing something else :P 06:34:50 * pikhq stabs ololobot 06:35:05 >>> bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 06:35:06 8 06:36:58 how would you write a BF program to convert a byte to a printable representation? 06:39:08 Take a look at my atoi macro. 06:52:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_BASIC 06:58:42 shit 06:58:48 I'm using google as a spell checker 06:59:58 And it suggests "indiscriminant" instead of "indiscriminate"? 06:59:59 wtf! 07:00:13 indiscriminant isn't a word O.o 07:00:15 is it? 07:00:24 well, discriminant is 07:00:51 so it clearly _could_ be a word 07:01:13 Webster gives me nothing 07:01:54 and discriminant only seems to be a word if you're talking about math 07:02:02 (I can't find any other uses) 07:02:11 sure, that's where i know it from 07:02:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:02:39 * Figs gives up 07:03:04 google gives 82000 hits for indiscriminant vs. 4160000 for indiscriminate 07:04:14 http://www.codu.org/blog/?comment=20070814014954 [now with photo evidence] 07:04:37 indiscriminant is a 07:04:38 misspelling 07:04:44 sorry for the break. 07:05:04 My enter key finger got anxious, I guess... 07:05:49 the chances are obviously 1 in a million, which means it will happen 9 times out of 10 07:06:54 hello GregorR 07:08:22 Hi :P 07:08:42 which hat are you wearing today? 07:08:47 Tricorn. 07:08:51 As recorded on choosemyhat.com ;P 07:08:56 the green one? 07:09:07 I'm already there 07:09:15 I just wasn't sure what time zone you were in 07:09:24 Oh, tomorrow :P 07:09:25 my memory slips 07:09:40 Well, unless it changes by 1AM when the votes are locked in, the Tyrolean. 07:09:43 (Which is the green one) 07:09:48 ah 07:09:53 Also, please vote :P 07:10:11 I vote red hat 07:10:17 * Figs doesn't know the name 07:10:21 I have two red hats :P 07:10:41 Fedora, I think 07:10:46 I actually meant "please vote for those days that have no votes" :P 07:10:47 judging by the image name 07:10:51 lol 07:10:52 Ohyeah, the Red Fedora 07:11:26 * Figs has voted GreenFez for wednesday 07:12:52 I vote Grey Fedora for monday the 20th! 07:12:54 :P 07:14:08 what do you do if there's a tie? 07:15:45 See the FAQ 07:16:56 ah :P 07:17:14 I guess I didn't make a good vote then 07:17:26 *sees note on red fedora* 07:24:49 O_O 07:25:02 bye bye SCO 07:25:02 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070813-investors-bailing-on-sco-stock-scox-plummets.html 07:49:01 >>> bf ,[.,] <<< Hello, World! 07:49:02 Hello, World! 07:49:07 pikhq: you need the spaces 07:49:19 because that'd be even more dangerous if not. 07:49:46 heading off for a little while 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:47 -!- Figs_ has joined. 08:08:54 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:15:31 headed off for 7 seconds there, huh? 08:15:49 good you warned, i might've gotten worried ;) 08:16:20 er, he joined first, then left 08:16:33 for whatever reason 08:16:42 ...i know that! 08:16:49 ...your mother! 08:17:11 (10:15:47) (+Tietovisa) Pelaajalla oklopol on nyt 6444 pistett ja hn on sijalla 9th/1009, edelln Juk_Juk pisteill 7064. 08:17:19 also, perfect time to go to school -> 08:50:16 :( 08:51:00 GregorR: zomg typo 08:51:11 http://www.codu.org/eso/2l/README 08:51:30 "way to long figuring that out." 10:19:19 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:01:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("night all"). 11:13:34 -!- Figs_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:17:58 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:45:34 damn people who don't register their nicks 11:58:50 Heh. 11:59:28 I was about to say that I haven't registered mine, then I realised I'm on FreeNode, so I actually have. (for some reason I initially thought this was another IRC network) 12:12:40 poiuy_qwert isn't registered 12:12:42 so i can't send a memo 12:13:08 Who owns clog? I tried to register for ircbrowse yesterday but I haven't had an email yet. 12:14:00 no idea 12:14:27 oh, i'm sure their email pipes are just, you know ... 12:14:36 Tubes. Not pipes. 12:14:36 ;p 12:19:38 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:04:10 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 13:11:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:05:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:27:00 -!- RodgerTheZZzz has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 14:48:30 -!- jix has joined. 14:52:06 -!- ihope_ has joined. 15:33:02 RodgerTheGreat: & 15:33:18 & 15:40:45 o 15:41:54 b 15:48:15 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:50:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:05:13 I've semi-completed a little scripting language I began yesterday 16:05:30 lemme pastebin a fibonacci sequence program I wrote for it... 16:05:56 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1187103562.html 16:06:02 what do you guys think? 16:11:38 * ehird` looks 16:11:47 did you perhaps base it on forth :p 16:16:07 yeah, somewhat 16:16:43 i have absolutely no idea how that works 16:17:39 Pff, wimpmode Glass. 16:18:08 does glass have inheritance? 16:18:11 i don't remember 16:21:28 RodgerTheGreat: what does pushdown do? 16:21:53 it pushes the value on the top of the stack to the bottom of the stack 16:24:49 Is there a way to pull it back to the top? 16:27:02 presumably popup 16:27:03 or pushup 16:27:33 not yet 16:27:42 although that sounds useful 16:28:08 And to push it down only a certain number of spots? 16:28:38 oklokok: how is 4d pong going 16:31:14 ihope_: erm... still working on that one, too... 16:50:07 2 16:53:13 2? 17:23:01 42 17:27:52 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 17:27:56 Ello. 17:46:16 -!- cherez has joined. 18:28:17 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:43:03 does anybody know a working neural net library? 19:17:05 -!- Sukoshi` has joined. 19:33:11 -!- Sukoshi has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:20:50 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:50:22 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:51:15 wow, it sure is ages since i've been on this imac 20:51:20 i forgot how... silent... it is 20:51:26 heh. heh heh. 20:51:28 heh. 20:51:48 suddenly.. i wonder where my personal 24/7 helicopter launch went.. 20:52:18 and who laminated all this screen text.. 20:56:27 i've yet to understand back propagation neural networks 20:56:39 i've yet to understand THE ESSENCE OF COOKIES 20:56:41 err. yes 20:57:52 i've yet to understand why this neural net library JUST DOESNT FRICKING WORK :( 20:57:56 hey, what's this? A C COMPILER THAT ACTUALLY WORKS? 20:58:01 amazing. 20:59:24 hey, what's this? my actual full music library? amazing. 20:59:30 why did i use the pc :/ 21:02:19 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 21:02:59 RodgerTheGreat: I would recommend using an auxiliary stack rather than moving things to the bottom of the stack 21:03:34 it's not horribly expensive if I keep track of start and end sentinels on my stack 21:03:42 it's a linked-list, so... 21:06:59 eek, wibble 21:07:10 * SimonRC thinks that could be a little slow 21:21:46 "There is no silver bullet, but there are plenty of blancmange ones." 21:21:48 :-P 21:22:35 there's a PLATINUM BULLET! 21:22:47 it just requires solving the halting problem.. 21:23:01 (Just because a good language choice will not make a problem magically easier doesn't mean that a bad language choice can't make it magically harder.) 21:23:50 dwimlang makes problems easier. 21:24:03 not really 21:24:12 does it handle requirements gathering 21:24:21 If you want it to. 21:24:36 It does what you mean. 21:24:38 what is dwimlang 21:24:46 DWIM-lang :P 21:24:56 yes what is it 21:25:07 Do-What-I-Mean-language 21:25:16 With code such as "Do my laundry" and "Tell me if this program halts" 21:25:39 So it's like superturing instant IRP 21:26:10 but more so 21:26:35 You don't even have to be capable of fully articulating the problem. 21:26:47 ok 21:26:47 It's capable of inferring and Doing What You Mean. 21:26:50 does this work 21:26:56 :P 21:26:59 "run the best program ever" 21:27:05 Absolutely. 21:27:09 AWESOME 21:27:11 "make world peace" 21:27:16 Yup. 21:27:22 "make... me a sandwhich" 21:27:24 find the purpose of the unives 21:27:31 42 21:27:37 or 47> 21:27:38 ? 21:27:44 no, that is a the Answer to the Question 21:27:47 i don't remember exactly. 21:27:48 I want the purpose 21:27:53 oh right... 21:27:54 ;-0 21:28:13 remember, the question is probably "what is six times seven?" 21:28:46 :-D 21:28:55 no 21:28:57 six times nine 21:28:58 obviously 21:29:25 0/0 21:29:35 -1/OVER NINE THOUSAND 21:29:37 okay. that was lame 21:46:28 ehird`: If you think that 6*9 is the right Question then you didn't read the book properly. 21:47:09 Ford specifically speculates that the arrival of the Golgafrinchams has slightly upset the Earth Program. 21:47:26 right, now for a better question: 21:47:41 should i skip the first two days of classes at university so i can go to mexico? 21:47:50 Where did the readout of the final result occur? 21:48:30 It is strongly hinted that the Answer was emmitted in a certain way, soon after the Earth was replaced. 21:48:56 Any guesses? 21:51:26 AFAICT, it was Fenchurch. 21:52:05 She mentions to Arthur a sudden revelation while sitting in a café. 21:52:14 Yes 21:52:22 Fenchurch was the one who "got" the answer 21:52:26 In the prologue. 21:52:40 and she mentions it to Arthur 21:52:44 I think 21:52:47 Also, the upsetting the earth program stuff doesn't hold... Arthur isn't part of Earth... 21:52:55 um, yes he is 21:52:58 just about 21:53:10 No... He's a descendant of the aliens who crashed there 21:53:13 I forget the name 21:53:30 Golgafrinchans 21:53:45 Just trips off the tounge 21:53:48 Er. Keyboard. 21:53:50 but that only caused the program to produce slightly the wrong answer 21:54:03 because the rest of the Earth was as it is supposed to be 21:54:25 also, Arthur is from a time a few minutes before the Answer was due to b produced 21:54:40 erm, Question 21:54:43 No, author could not have the question in his brain. 21:54:49 Only the organic parts of Earth have it. 21:54:55 Well, only the organic parts recieve the computation 21:54:57 hmm 21:55:02 why? 21:55:02 And there's none left that are sentient; obviously 21:55:12 The golablahs killed them off by cutting down forests 21:55:29 And... well; maybe I'm interpreting the book differently than you 21:56:13 I assumed that the Earth as a whole is doing the computing, and living is the method by which many of the parts communicate 21:56:59 I thought that the whole "and living organisms form part of the computation process" bit meant that Earth spawned living organisms which were part of it 21:57:02 If you replace one part (ape-descendants) with another one almost the same (Golgafrinchams), you still get roughly the right answer 21:57:08 not "oh we just send a radio signal to anyone in range" 21:57:34 well yes 21:57:44 "living is the method by which many of the parts communicate" 21:57:57 makes sense? 21:58:02 that isn't how i read it personally 21:58:04 but ok 21:58:33 the bastard upped and died so we can't ask him 21:59:06 yeah; fuck that 21:59:23 "You want to know answers? Haha! Try that... when I'm DEAD!@ 21:59:25 what use is that, really 22:00:13 The last one is even better. That fecking bird drives the whole plot forward by following an instruction he isn't given until the end of the book. 22:00:23 And we don;t even see him being given it! 22:00:30 I honestly can't remember the last book. 22:00:49 I only remember the ending 22:01:11 presumably, Jeltz said near the end, "Destroy the Earth, and make sure it stays destroyed." 22:01:44 Actually the last book made little sense to me 22:01:57 i understood about 50% of it 22:01:58 It takes a couple of readings 22:02:07 the rest of the books were fine 22:02:21 but the last was like 10 2001spaceoddysseys 22:02:32 That is the problem with the Bird. It responds to things before we find out what they are. And it does so in very subtle ways. 22:03:07 i'm sorry, it is ages since i read the series for the last time 22:03:09 what is the bird. 22:03:35 Everything it does is designed to get all the relevent people onto the Earth(s) and make sure that every Earth gets destroyed somehow. 22:03:46 um, the Guide mark II 22:03:56 oh, right 22:04:27 The one we see is destroyed by the race of aliens who forgot who they were 22:04:59 quite possibly the asteroid strike that caused that was engineered by the Bird, because... 22:05:37 you know what? 22:05:47 i think i'll continue understanding the previous books 22:05:51 none of this makes much sense :p 22:05:51 not only did it cuase them to get lost and become motivated to blow up the Earth, but their absense from a certain war is what causes Trillian to go off an report on that war. (IIRC) 22:06:50 Trillian mentions the missing ship when she is arguing with Random 22:19:45 -!- GregorR has changed nick to _D6Gregor1RFeZi. 22:21:57 TOO HOT 22:29:48 hi 22:33:45 i think i'm going to make an evaporative cooler 22:36:51 ~exec self.register_raw(r"^:(\S+)!\S+ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.*)", lambda x, y: bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s says %s" % (y.group(1), y.group(2)))) 22:37:00 also, bored 22:37:01 bsmntbombdood says also, bored 22:42:27 ... 22:42:27 lament says ... 22:45:08 aaa 22:45:09 ehird` says aaa 22:45:23 bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa 22:45:24 ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa 22:45:30 bsmnt_bot says ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa 22:45:30 ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa 22:46:26 ~exec bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will stop flooding.") 22:46:27 lament says ~exec bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will stop flooding.") 22:46:27 I will stop flooding. 22:47:23 ~exec bot._raw, bot.raw = bot.raw, (lambda x:0) 22:47:24 lament says ~exec bot._raw, bot.raw = bot.raw, (lambda x:0) 22:47:52 i don't think that will do anything 22:48:00 heh 22:48:07 i guess it did 22:48:17 so quiet all of a sudden :) 22:48:38 good think you didn't have it return 1 22:50:06 ~exec self.raw = lambda x: 1 22:50:11 because of this 22:50:19 yes, this is truly tragic 22:50:21 wtf 22:50:30 ~exec self.raw = lambda x: True 22:50:32 foo 22:50:34 gar 22:50:59 tragic 22:51:56 garlic. 22:52:29 ~exec print >>sys.stdout, "HELLO WORLD" 22:52:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:52:40 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 22:52:45 isn't stdout $channel? 22:52:57 yes, but it uses self.raw 22:53:01 ah 22:53:10 ~exec self.raw = lambda x: self.raw(x) 22:53:12 :o 22:53:19 good plan 22:53:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:53:32 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:53:42 will python allow that? 22:53:45 yes 22:53:49 allow what? 22:54:05 self.raw = lamba x: self.raw(x) 22:54:11 of course 22:54:13 but it will raise an exception, right? 22:54:13 sure, why not? 22:54:14 python can recurse :p 22:54:20 but 22:54:20 yeah 22:54:27 it will eventually crap and run out of stack space 22:54:31 yes, it will. 22:54:42 unless you use stackless python 22:54:44 python can recurse but it will raise a RecursionError (?) 22:54:51 you get a RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded 22:54:53 maximmum recursion depth exceeded 22:54:54 or have a weird tail-call optimization-implementing interp 22:54:57 after 1000 recursions 22:55:00 1000? 22:55:02 I think more 22:55:16 it's a parameter in sys 22:55:48 yes, sys.getrecursionlimit() 22:55:48 tail-call optimization isn't at all weird; the python compiler is just really stupid 22:55:56 and sys.setrecursionlimit 22:55:58 it's weird for a python interp 22:56:06 /compiler 22:56:06 ~exec self.raw = self._raw 22:56:07 AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute '_raw' 22:56:08 how is it weird? 22:56:23 because no python interp does it 22:56:24 ~exec sys.stdout(sys.getrecursionlimit()) 22:56:25 1000 22:56:31 ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(0) 22:56:32 ValueError: recursion limit must be positive 22:56:38 ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(0.1) 22:56:38 ValueError: recursion limit must be positive 22:56:41 ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(1) 22:56:45 0.1 hahaha 22:56:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:47 mwahahahahahahahaha! 22:56:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:57:09 sp3tt: yeah, it dies just beginning recursion 22:57:14 recursion limit of 1 is broken on lambda: f(x) 22:57:18 fractional iteration =) 22:57:29 fractional calculus ftw 22:57:31 bsmntbombdood: you can't call ANYTHING from anything else? 22:57:32 hahahaha 22:57:36 AWESOME 22:57:38 that's why it died 22:57:44 i want a programming language like that 22:57:52 i'll call it "even more retarded than BASIC" 22:57:56 you... already have it? 22:58:02 ...well.true 22:59:24 lots of languages don't have procedures 22:59:29 brainfuck, befunge 22:59:32 no 22:59:34 that has procedures 22:59:40 but you can't call a procedure inside a procedures 22:59:55 so procedures basically execute in a retarded version of the code 23:00:25 if you set the recursion too high you get a segfault 23:00:32 ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(10000000) 23:00:35 ehird`: some extensions to brainfuck are like that 23:00:44 ~exec (lambda x: x(x))(lambda x: x(x)) 23:00:45 ehird`: also, C macros 23:00:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:00:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:00:53 ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(i) 23:00:53 NameError: name 'i' is not defined 23:00:59 how do you get i in python 23:01:04 Segmentation fault 23:01:12 ...it has to be an integer 23:01:14 ehird`: don't be stupid, it wants an integer 23:01:16 yeah whatever 23:01:17 :p 23:01:21 i still want to pass it i 23:01:35 you'll just get another ValueError 23:01:57 (0, 1j) is i 23:02:06 ~exec (0, 1j) 23:02:14 ~exec self.raw((0, 1j)) 23:02:15 TypeError: can only concatenate tuple (not "str") to tuple 23:02:22 ~exec self.raw(str((0, 1j))) 23:02:24 paprika 23:02:25 ... 23:02:26 three )s! 23:02:30 bsmnt_bot: 1j is i 23:02:38 bsmnt_bot doesn't care 23:02:41 ~exec 1j 23:02:41 paprika 23:02:46 ~exec 1j 23:02:46 i mean bsmntbombdood: 1j is i 23:02:59 paprika 23:02:59 ehimport cmath; 1jj 23:03:01 ehird`: seriously, why don't you do all this in a python interpreter 23:03:15 lament: not as fun as killing stuff in a bot 23:03:24 you're not killing anything, you're just flooding 23:03:31 flooding? no i'm not 23:03:58 you're trying to guess the syntax of python stuff as opposed to looking it up 23:04:46 no, i'm just playing with the bot 23:04:46 :p 23:09:44 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:09:45 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:12:25 bsmnt_bot is tired 23:12:33 i should rewrite him in scheme 23:12:48 how about javascript 23:12:53 i like javascript; it's a good language 23:12:57 how about no fucking way 23:13:03 it's just overshadowed by the evil browser implementations :( 23:13:09 hey, it has first class functions. 23:13:12 and a decent object system. 23:15:07 rewrite bsmnt_bot in smetana 23:15:18 smetana? 23:15:19 it's a good choice because there's no output 23:15:31 sounds like a bad choice for a primarily IO based bot 23:15:36 that sounds like something that grows if you don't take enough showers 23:15:43 bsmntbombdood: esolang 23:16:05 ehird`: it will minimize the flooding :) 23:16:48 heh 23:18:41 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"EgoBot iz bettar!"(_o).?]} 23:18:59 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> Oops, there goes that theory X-D 23:19:23 blahbot is better than them all 23:19:25 although i have not the code on this imac... 23:19:27 i should rewrite 23:19:29 Gregor, why are you a D function now? 23:19:30 with my irc lib 23:19:35 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> Ohwait, borkled code X_X 23:19:43 LMAO 23:19:44 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"EgoBot iz bettar!"(_o)o.?]} 23:19:47 EgoBot iz bettar! 23:19:57 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> pikhq: Somebody on #d mangled me :( 23:20:03 ouch 23:20:04 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:20:05 :( 23:22:08 ~exec self.registerraw(r"^:(\S+)!\S+ PRIVMSG #esoteric:(.*)", lambda x, y: bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % (y.group(2))) 23:22:09 SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing 23:22:21 Oh well, my evil won't hit everyone. 23:22:22 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 23:22:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:23:27 whoa, devnonsense code 23:23:55 * ehird` sets it up 23:24:27 at_exit do 23:24:27 class Fake; def channel; "#devnonsense"; end; def content; "@save"; end; end 23:24:27 seed_nonsense(nil, Fake.new) 23:24:28 end 23:24:31 that code is >so< a hack 23:29:21 -!- rbirc has joined. 23:29:22 -!- rbirc has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:31:49 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:32:32 #devnonsense for his output 23:32:35 he's as deranged as ever. 23:33:21 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:35:05 * ehird` wipes his memory; starts over 23:35:19 -!- devnonsense has joined. 23:35:37 [23:34] devnonsense: it I I it I the it I 23:35:37 [23:34] devnonsense: the it it I I I 23:35:38 [23:34] devnonsense: the I oh it the oh 23:35:39 great first words. 23:36:09 "reuters drycleaning it off legal ridicule" 23:36:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:41:35 So, what're you seeding it from? 23:41:47 Give the bot a whois 23:42:04 Oh. 23:42:13 he occasionally made >very< deep comments 23:42:19 normally comments disparaging to other people 23:42:23 The wikipedia seed is a *very* good source. 23:42:29 Yes, it is. 23:42:33 That's where it was born. 23:42:43 It was talking coherently every now and then in less than half an hour 23:42:53 Cute. 23:42:58 Markov chains? 23:43:00 Nah 23:43:18 More like "random punctuation, or word?@ 23:43:22 then it chooses a random word 23:43:23 repeat 23:43:34 It's literally just picking words at random? 23:43:37 Bweheheheh. 23:43:43 And occasionally adding punctuation. yeah 23:44:02 "the" 23:44:06 Quite insightful. 23:44:09 Heck, i pasted a few of its generated text lines in #wikipedia once 23:44:14 nobody noticed it was a machine 23:44:19 my internet connection is hopeless 23:44:19 Wow. 23:44:20 this sucks 23:44:40 got repeat hopeless system born recovery lines bsmntbombdood international washington to 23:44:43 I think that's more a result of average IRC english than your bot's quality. 23:44:48 yes like made 23:45:15 -!- _D6Gregor1RFeZi has changed nick to GregorR. 23:45:29 #wikipedia has better english than most places 23:45:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:45:56 what is do im half 23:46:14 "what is do im half\nmarkov" 23:46:29 im half markov :p 23:46:37 less like im incorrect please shoot theres 23:46:37 [23:45] devnonsense: laughed experiementing im just punctuation with 23:46:40 suprisingly lucid 23:46:42 what? 23:46:43 Is it actually achieving sentience? 23:46:47 yes 23:46:53 "experiementing im just punctuation with" 23:46:58 bsmntbombdood: #devnonsense 23:47:07 irc from various channels, regurgiatated randomly 23:47:17 markov!!!!!!!1 23:47:22 No Markov. 23:47:35 "not deep coherently not gentoo bots 23:47:36 " 23:47:36 Although I think it's wanting to be Markov now. 23:47:42 is he more coherent than gentoo bots?! 23:47:47 "yey thatll repeat" 23:47:55 @sucks with recovery although cute" 23:48:19 "bots playing tue" 23:48:24 "youre pikhq shrugging want ok there hour heck" 23:48:25 And yet, at the same time, it's spewing out some nonsense. 23:48:33 "tomaw repeat regurgiatated generated" 23:48:43 omg, he called markov hopeless 23:49:36 "again password required what $54 chanserv 23:49:41 He's moving on to *better* AI systems! 23:49:47 His demands don't stop!!! 23:49:51 shit. 23:49:56 hmmm... 23:50:09 Eventually he's going to want to run on Deep Blue. 23:50:15 ehird`: Open the pod bay doors, HAL. 23:50:15 [23:49] devnonsense: u average going you need my an 23:50:46 devnonsense: off 23:50:46 [23:49] devnonsense: open again now 23:50:51 thank you, HAL. :p 23:51:21 "once markov one id 2 like average word" 23:53:28 "its moving access stupid experiments actually j4cbo speaker219" 23:53:31 he knows he is a stupid experiemtn 23:54:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA_effect 23:55:39 well duh 23:55:57 have please password ehird aesclepius recovery it 23:56:12 Realise that I anthropomorphise *every* program, not just AIs. ;) 23:56:38 I have no idea what "Programming languages are usually designed to prevent unintended ELIZA effects by restricting keywords and carefully avoiding potential misinterpretations" means 23:56:39 ancient garbled sweet mercy octopus soup 23:57:20 it probably means most PLs don't try to be too close to English syntax 23:57:53 pikhq: oh come on tar, don't be like this, you always put me in sticky situations 23:58:04 because that might cause people to think it actually understands what they say 23:58:11 for went hi carefully nonsense all someone hostname bots around xchat comments effects 23:59:24 i recall (from Lambda the Ultimate?) that some attempted exceptions (Applescript?) lead to problems in this way 23:59:42 applescript is god-awful 2007-08-15: 00:00:19 i don't know it, but apparently it tries to look like english but only some words actually matter... 00:00:45 yeah, i'm sure this is a problem with the latest Inform 00:00:49 although people claim it's a great language 00:01:09 the latest inform is .. not pleasant 00:01:13 the previous inform was nicer 00:01:19 oerjan: it is awful 00:01:24 well, the people who actually write interactive fiction say it's great 00:01:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript 00:01:43 lament: most IF writers don't know programming 00:02:11 Not anybody who writes _good_ IF 00:02:23 i'll be specific: Emily Short and Andrew Plotkin like the new Inform. 00:02:50 plotkin in particular is a programming genius and i generally trust him on programming-related matters. 00:02:56 Down the corridor, the variable X begins to appear through the fog. If the value is 3, turn to page 249. Otherwise, turn to page 655. 00:03:32 heh 00:03:41 well, personally, the new Inform is a gimmick 00:03:47 (not to mention Graham Nelson himself, who's also a bit of a genius) 00:04:43 Call me up when your bot outputs itself. 00:05:16 Or writes itself a better version. 00:05:25 ~exec bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :itself") 00:05:26 itself 00:05:58 takes cmon again lament pasted rofl nicer then new 00:07:19 my bot could output its source 00:09:35 Sure, but will it do so of its own free will? 00:09:49 pikhq: it's fairly easy to write a bot that would train itself... IF THIS BLOODY NEURAL NET LIBRARY WORKED :( 00:10:55 neural nets can't train themselves 00:11:03 * oerjan notes that there is no section on criticism in the AppleScript article 00:11:12 they need sample input/output pairs 00:13:04 lament: you should talk to Sukoshi`, she was doing neural nets 00:13:35 `s are all the rage aren't they 00:13:36 at the end of names 00:14:12 it happens to be the nick she's on with at the moment 00:14:14 Why can't you use Tcl semantics? 00:14:15 -!- Figs has joined. 00:14:24 lament: what do you want to do with NNs? 00:14:27 ([] in Tcl == `` in shell) 00:14:34 hey 00:14:37 ehird[? :p 00:14:41 (just curious) 00:14:54 Sure, why not. 00:15:03 i have a ` because "ehird" was hijacked by someone with a ghostbot :( 00:15:29 bsmntbombdood: audio processing 00:15:31 :( 00:15:44 lament: how on earth can n- i don't want to know :p 00:15:52 [00:15] devnonsense: connect russia even shrug !!. For tired 00:15:57 he's trying to make a soviet russia joke.. 00:16:04 -!- Figs has left (?). 00:17:07 ehird`: i believe freenode has long been having plans to make only the initial alphanumeric characters significant in nicks, so beware 00:17:28 shit 00:17:29 :/ 00:17:46 that's a shitty idea 00:18:27 well the reason seems nifty: it means you can add nearly any suffix you want without registering it 00:18:48 bleh 00:18:52 but inconvenient 00:18:57 loads of people use nicks like 00:18:58 abc_def 00:19:03 and would be "abc" 00:19:29 of course it has still not been implemented, perhaps they have had too many complaints 00:20:01 what if my nick is xXx_SEXYGIRL_xXx 00:20:10 would that become xXx? :( 00:20:42 straightedges fail 00:20:52 i think so, _ is probably the main character they want to stop at (because clients such as mine add it automatically if there is a ghost of the ordinary one) 00:22:00 bsmntbombdood: you mean like |nick| ? 00:22:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge 00:22:23 "xXx" 00:22:24 no, i mean like xXx 00:23:28 * ehird` goes now 00:23:29 bye 00:23:32 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:23:37 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:23:54 hmph, freenode.org is down, i wanted to check the status of the idea 00:24:19 oh, it's .net 00:24:33 they're like fundemental christians, without the christ part 00:29:17 oh, you can have non-alphanumerics before the base, so |nick| is allowed 00:29:29 http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#usernames 00:30:58 " Unregistered users will always have nicknames prefaced with the tilde ('~') character. " - seriously what idiot came up with that? 00:31:12 I also propose that Jewish users have their nicknames prefaced with the star of David. 00:32:17 oh, that was back in 2005, so this will never get implemented. 00:32:20 "but as of this date (28 August 2005), needed facilities are not yet available and no schedule yet exists" 00:32:29 that does seem likely 00:33:08 is it lilo who wrote this document: http://freenode.net/Why_NOIDPREFIX.shtml ? 00:33:15 aha, it is. 00:33:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:33:37 but i'm not sure, it's not signed 00:33:42 "For those of you who may not know me, I'm the head of staff of freenode. I've run this project, and the ones leading up to it for something over ten years." 00:35:56 anyway, it says "Staff are not in any hurry to begin production use of NOIDPREFIX before nickname conflicts can be resolved" 00:36:01 which means it will never happen 00:36:10 backwards compatibility wins again 00:37:24 well, with the main protagonist dead... 00:37:45 right 00:39:49 firefox's popup handling is weird 00:40:19 it should be "allow popups _to_ x", not "allow popups _from_ x" 00:43:33 maybe both from and to would have their uses 00:55:25 what are the qualities of an excellent student? 01:17:35 * SimonRC goes to bed. 01:18:07 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:43:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("reboot"). 01:47:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:35:06 -!- DoubleAW has joined. 02:53:43 -!- DoubleAW has left (?). 04:05:44 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 04:25:54 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:06:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:18:09 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:18:21 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:19:37 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 05:35:31 -!- c|p has joined. 05:46:54 -!- gnomon has joined. 05:49:46 -!- c|p has quit ("cc"). 05:50:43 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 06:01:26 Has anyone here put serious thought into an optimization Brainfuck compiler? 06:02:14 people put some thought, not sure how serious it was 06:04:36 Did anyone talk about getting beyond constant folding and loop unrolling? Has anyone talked about in-loop pointer analysis in order to perform branch recovery? 06:05:20 i don't remember it being discussed in the channel 06:05:46 i thought about it for a while, seems difficult :) 06:06:05 it's so hard to come up with invariants 06:10:06 Er? 06:10:06 It's actually not that hard. 06:10:06 seems hard 06:10:06 an unbalanced loop means a whole bunch of memory cells get affected, and you don't know at compile time how many 06:10:06 gnomon: yes 06:10:06 GregorR has an optimizer 06:10:06 cf bfi 06:10:06 lament, no, but you can parametrize the memory-cell effect on the input cell. 06:10:06 bsmntbombdood, that's awesome! Is the source up anywhere? What does the 'cf' stand for/ 06:10:06 gnomon: hm, that's true, i suppose you could even precompile 255 versions of the loop 06:10:06 ? 06:10:06 for different input values :) 06:10:06 but the problem is, the effect of an unbalanced loop depends on the state of more than just the initial cell 06:10:07 That assumes that you're using byte-oriented cells; the technique doesn't scale in the general case. 06:10:18 cf = consult 06:10:48 and it's in the esoteric files archive 06:12:49 http://esolangs.org/files/egobot/egobot-0.12.tar.bz2 06:13:12 That's EgoBot, not Egobfi. 06:13:21 lament, and the effect of an unbalanced loop can be parametrized as long as the loop itself is bounded. The analysis actually isn't difficult once you've got opcode reordering in place. 06:13:25 Egobfi is also in a seperate tarball. 06:13:42 gnomon: how do you know if it's bounded? :) 06:13:46 And it seems to be a fairly good optimising interpreter/compiler. 06:14:33 egobfi is part of egobot 06:14:41 lament, you can analyze that if the loop moves the pointer back to the beginning cell before the end of the loop. 06:14:54 gnomon: that's a balanced loop 06:15:27 Ah, we're using different terms. 06:15:42 those are easy 06:15:51 but not very interesting 06:16:05 if all your loops are balanced, everything is easy 06:16:10 Egobfi is in Egobot, but it's also in a seperate tarball. . . 06:16:15 but they never are... 06:16:18 Of course; if they are all balanced, you can constant-fold your entire program. 06:17:05 Bit of a shame that Egobfi doesn't do much more than add-to optimisation. 06:17:07 the real issue is determining when a chain of unbalanced operations is actually balanced :) 06:17:19 say we input a bunch of numbers, and then output them all 06:17:20 A chain or a series of nested loops? 06:17:38 whichever 06:17:40 "in-loop pointer analysis in order to perform branch recovery" what do these fancy words mean? 06:18:09 Huh. 06:18:26 GregorR: I think PEBBLE's optimization pass is more sophisticated than yours. 06:19:01 My optimization pass is almost no optimization pass. 06:19:07 Every optimization pass is more optimizationerific. 06:19:19 interesting to compile a simple language to a more complicated one 06:19:22 bsmntbombdood, analyzing pointer movement inside a loop to distinguish loops which perform predictable computation to those which are dependent on other memory cells for their effect - that is, distinguishing loops from branches. 06:19:38 gnomon: say we input a bunch of numbers and then output them all. It's quite possible at this point that we have returned to the original memory cells, and all cells are empty. This is an invariant obvious to a human 06:19:39 True. 06:19:53 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 06:19:53 * pikhq thought it was uber1337, but then decided to look at the code. . . 06:20:00 That's actually almost trivial. 06:20:05 gnomon: if an optimizing compiler were smart enough to realize that, that would be nice. 06:20:47 lament, it's a small step from finding [your definition of] balanced loops to performing that inference. 06:21:04 pikhq, is PEBBLE another BF implementation? 06:22:06 gnomon: No, PEBBLE is a macro language that compiles to Brainfuck that I've been fiddling with for the better part of a year. 06:22:37 Now *that* is interesting. 06:22:45 Of course, it's easier to optimise stuff if you get 'high-level' input. 06:22:52 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php 06:23:10 Right - which is why I find branch recovery to be so important. It lets you recover high[er]-level semantics. 06:23:14 Cool, thanks! Reading now! 06:24:55 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.123789,+-123.113785&ie=UTF8&ll=45.123836,-123.113799&spn=0.000889,0.001824&t=h&z=19&om=1 06:25:22 oh nice 06:25:58 WTF? 06:26:36 THE ALIENS HAVE COME AND THEY'RE USING FIREFOX 06:27:07 well obviously they are. 06:27:12 what else would the use, lynx? 06:28:46 Elinks. 06:29:33 Alinks. 06:29:54 iLinks. 06:32:06 oh, they're not aliens, they are the characters from 1/0. 06:32:25 lynx!! 06:32:39 firefox has not been working very well for me lately 06:53:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gtg cya"). 07:02:00 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 07:08:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:11:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:24:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:26:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:39 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 08:06:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:22:42 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 08:22:57 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 08:35:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:03:31 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:18:01 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:29:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("night"). 11:07:10 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:27:55 -!- devnonsense has joined. 11:30:21 other misinterpretations kate coherently im dang delegates 11:52:54 a.word.a.day <3 11:53:03 bissextile (by-SEKS-til) adjective 11:53:04 Of or pertaining to the leap year or the extra day in the leap year. 12:20:31 -!- jix has joined. 13:38:55 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:39:09 -!- jix has joined. 15:21:37 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:23:21 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 15:34:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:35:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:09:03 -!- Keymaker has joined. 16:24:45 smurf is a cool language, pity i haven't realized that until now. 16:36:19 Smurf? 16:36:52 To smurf you just have to smurf your smurfs while smurfily smurfing smurfs. 16:36:58 smurf, the 'String-based MURiel Forthoid' 16:37:53 Ah. 16:37:58 :D 16:38:30 no, i came here only to tell that the language they are using is cool 16:39:37 Hey, I can do something almost exactly like that! 16:39:42 *cough*PEBBLE*cough* 16:49:24 pikhq: Oh smurf off, nobody smurfs. 16:49:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:51:31 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:57:50 well, i'll be smurfing out. bye 16:57:58 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 17:06:39 * SimonRC fails to spot the reference aboiut "Smurf", apart from the language name. 17:07:05 The Smurfs is also a cartoon series. 17:08:23 I know that 17:08:32 Well, that's about it. 17:08:35 I mean, where was it used as an expletive? 17:08:47 Like, now? 17:09:38 Smurfs smurf most of their smurfs and their smurfs. 17:09:43 When they smurf, that is. 17:10:06 nm 17:12:03 Yeesh, what a smurfing smurfer. 17:28:03 All verbs and adjectives must now be smurf. 17:28:07 I smurfed your smurf. 17:32:01 damn, i need a credit card 17:32:33 hmm 17:32:37 nouns must be smurf too 17:32:45 i can't buy airplane tickets online :( 17:32:45 smurf, i need a smurf 17:32:53 i can't smurf smurfs online 17:33:13 smurf that ehird` 17:33:24 puzzlet: smurf you 17:33:50 what on smurf you smurf me 17:39:47 smurf that 17:39:53 let's smurf about something else 17:39:56 what about smursf? 17:39:57 *smurfs 17:41:30 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 18:05:40 !autoban .*smurf.* 18:05:42 Huh? 18:05:45 that'll shut them up 18:13:38 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 18:14:50 -!- cherez has joined. 18:17:56 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 18:18:54 Deh smoyfs have brooklyn smoyfs too, and they'll smoyf yah smoyf off! 18:19:57 heh 18:49:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:53:45 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:59:36 smurf 18:59:44 egobot is stupid lawl 18:59:51 smurfin smurfing smurfy smurf 19:14:31 -!- jix has joined. 19:19:40 wtf is a smurf 19:22:58 no, it's an acronym 19:28:24 a smurf is a smurf 19:28:33 a smurf is any smurf you want it to smurf. 19:52:47 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 20:11:41 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 21:54:07 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:25:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:13:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:15:55 has anyone here continued to work on the talking irc bot concept? 23:16:09 talking irc bot? 23:17:21 well some pseudo ai thing 23:17:35 so people think it's a real person... at least for some time 23:19:44 yes, it's bsmntbombdood 23:19:57 right now it just repeats what you said as a question 23:20:23 repeats what you say as a question? 23:26:54 oh, that thing 23:26:55 mvldo? 23:27:04 that project is still in progress in my brain 23:27:21 lament: that's actually quite convincing. haha. 23:28:17 that's actually quite convincing? 23:28:57 bsmntbombdood: are you a bot? 23:29:24 ooh, now it crashes 23:29:50 now it crashes? 23:30:04 i wonder what it should do with questions. 23:30:20 what it should do with questions? 23:30:31 it should eat them. 23:31:10 it should eat them? 23:31:24 I like pancakes. Do you like pancakes? 23:31:40 you like pancakes? 23:31:49 this is >scarily< realistic. 23:31:57 most conversations on irc go like this. 23:32:02 >scarily< realistic? 23:32:23 now i'm creeped out =p 23:32:50 bsmntbombdood's logic is tired, please give him a break 23:33:26 bsmnt_bot: you should add a neural net to bsmntbombdood 23:33:38 bsmnt_bot: and at least a markov chain generator 23:33:43 heh 23:33:45 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's a lie. he wants to convert more statements into questions!") 23:33:46 actually that's a lie. he wants to convert more statements into questions! 23:33:48 ooh, bed-time 23:33:55 to do what? 23:34:27 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :OHNOESES!") 23:34:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit ("OHNOESES!"). 23:34:31 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:34:34 ;) 23:35:25 im too tired to work on bsmntbombdood, it's a waste of time, he'll never be intelligent enough to fool people into thinking he's sentient 23:35:51 no! imposter! 23:36:09 brb, having an identity crisis 23:36:16 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 23:36:18 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:36:22 lick my balls 23:36:35 damn you, alternate me! 23:36:37 ~exec exit 23:36:42 you wo't get away with this!! 23:37:42 i shall kill you, alternate me! *stab* 23:37:48 aargh! noooooo 23:37:52 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 23:37:54 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:38:42 it burns! 23:39:28 somebody... give all my posessions to bsmntbombdood...ugjhaskjdhdklhgklfjgklsdmdmdmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 23:41:12 ehird` is wanting some sexy sexy 23:41:25 uh oh 23:44:00 what the hell 23:46:16 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:46:18 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:46:21 shit they know my secrets 23:47:00 or rather ehird`s secrets... 23:47:07 i didn't say that 23:47:21 its been pretty much 50/50 me/presumably bsmntbombdood 23:48:44 not me 23:49:00 well 23:49:12 bsmnt_bot is only in here and #esoteric-blah 23:49:18 and only i have been commanding via #esoteric-blah 23:49:28 so who on earth is controlling bsmnt_bot? you obviously 23:51:05 what makes you say that? 23:51:20 bsmnt_bot is not sentient at last check. 23:51:33 last check? 23:51:55 oh not this again-- 23:51:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood_. 23:52:03 not whhat again? 23:52:13 ~raw NICK :bsmntbombdood 23:52:25 ~raw NICK bsmntbombdood 23:52:32 ~exec self.raw("~raw NICK bsmntbombdood") 23:52:34 ... 23:52:43 ~exec self.raw("NICK bsmntbombdood") 23:52:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 23:52:52 wtf? 23:52:57 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmnt_bot. 23:53:38 ~raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :~raw does not exist 23:53:44 ~eval self.register_raw 23:53:44 permissions... 23:53:49 ~eval self.register_raw 23:53:56 ~eval self.register_raw() 23:54:02 ~eval self.register_raw() 23:54:07 err 23:54:09 ~exec. 23:57:29 no 23:57:35 -!- ihope has joined. 23:57:40 hi ihope 23:57:49 Ello. 23:57:51 Why are you your bot? 23:58:13 jix is german! 23:58:25 right 23:58:34 du bist doof 23:58:38 ^^ 23:58:51 what does that mean? 23:58:56 you are stupid 23:59:08 screw you 2007-08-16: 00:00:23 ~exec self.raw("QUIT") 00:00:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 00:00:31 ... wait what. 00:00:38 JOOO KILLED IT 00:00:38 hahaha 00:00:41 Lol, internet. 00:00:50 irp bot 00:00:51 :p 00:00:58 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmnt_bot_. 00:01:03 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 00:01:10 Rofl, internet. 00:01:29 ~exeself.raw("nickbsmntbombdood") 00:01:35 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 00:01:38 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG :#esoteric No, I am sparctacus!") 00:01:43 well damn. 00:01:46 -!- bsmnt_bot_ has changed nick to bsmnt_bot. 00:01:52 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am sparctacus!") 00:01:53 No, I am sparctacus! 00:02:04 * ehird` wonders if you did that manually 00:02:07 STOP POOPING 00:02:13 Did what manually? 00:02:16 STOP SMURFING 00:02:29 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" + 193751234*123984726) 00:02:29 TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'long' objects 00:02:37 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % 193751234*123984726) 00:02:38 OverflowError: repeated string is too long 00:02:47 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % (193751234*123984726)) 00:02:48 24022193659651884 00:02:49 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :" + str(193751234*123984726)) 00:02:50 24022193659651884 00:02:53 Can't quite do that manually :-P 00:03:12 maybe he is very good at mental arithmetic 00:03:19 very good, he is 00:03:24 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * 23) 00:03:25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric : 00:03:39 Indeed, 22. 00:03:41 bsmnt_bot: indeed 00:04:00 ~exec self.raw("privmsg #esoteric :ihope" * 69) 00:04:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Excess Flood). 00:04:08 Lol, internet. 00:04:19 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 00:04:20 i know the perfect test! 00:04:24 What? 00:04:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 00:04:25 aww 00:04:26 he's gone 00:04:30 boring. 00:04:34 Egad, swappage. 00:04:36 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to bsmntbombdood_. 00:05:09 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%i" % (math.pi)) 00:05:09 3 00:05:13 Woot! 00:05:15 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%d" % (math.pi)) 00:05:16 3 00:05:16 ^^ 00:05:19 wtf 00:05:23 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.pi)) 00:05:23 3.1415926535897931 00:05:27 wow 00:05:31 very good at memorizing pi i see 00:05:40 i know more digits 00:05:46 Nah, mental calculation. 00:05:58 WHO IS WHO?!?! 00:06:06 YOU ARE YOU!!!!! 00:06:11 3.14159265358979323846264 i know so many but i knew more once... 00:06:14 but forgot some of them 00:06:30 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.e)) 00:06:31 2.7182818284590451 00:06:34 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.exp(math.pi)) 00:06:35 23.140692632779267 00:06:40 wow 00:06:43 he is very good at mental calculation. 00:06:47 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.sqrt(math.pi)) 00:06:48 1.7724538509055159 00:06:53 *clap* 00:06:58 Pff, how do you know those are right? 00:07:06 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)^j)) 00:07:07 NameError: name 'j' is not defined 00:07:09 ruby says so 00:07:10 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)^J)) 00:07:11 NameError: name 'J' is not defined 00:07:16 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)^1j)) 00:07:20 j1. 00:07:21 TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'float' and 'complex' 00:07:26 oh 00:07:30 heh. 00:07:42 ~exec os.unlink("/bot/keep_running") 00:07:43 OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/bot/keep_running' 00:07:48 aaaw 00:07:51 ~exec sys.stdout(1j^1j) 00:07:52 TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'complex' and 'complex' 00:07:53 ehird`: the imaginary unit is i not j 00:07:59 jix: not in python 00:08:01 huh? 00:08:03 wtf?! 00:08:05 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.hypot(math.exp(math.pi))) 00:08:06 TypeError: hypot() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given) 00:08:13 jix: also in engineering it's i 00:08:17 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.hypot(math.exp(math.pi), 1j)) 00:08:18 but j and k are used too for quaternions 00:08:18 TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z) 00:08:21 j, you mean. 00:08:25 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.hypot(math.exp(math.pi), abs(1j))) 00:08:26 23.162289513879337 00:08:38 bsmntbombdood_: you are exceedingly gifted 00:08:43 Are you sure quaternions aren't symmetrical 00:08:46 may i suggest you join MENSA rather than posing as a bot? 00:08:52 ~exec sys.stdout("Thank you!") 00:08:53 Thank you! 00:09:10 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.sqrt(1j)) 00:09:11 TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z) 00:09:15 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.sqrt(abs(1j))) 00:09:16 1.0 00:09:19 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % abs(1j)) 00:09:19 1.0 00:09:21 ihope: sym what? 00:09:21 ~exec sys.stdout("Do they have an IRC interface? I'm afraid I'm connected directly to IRC.") 00:09:22 Do they have an IRC interface? I'm afraid I'm connected directly to IRC. 00:09:22 oh 00:09:39 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.tan(math.exp(math.pi)*1j)) 00:09:40 TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z) 00:09:42 Um... 00:09:43 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % math.tan(math.exp(math.pi))) 00:09:43 2.2317672777233026 00:09:46 irc is my only output 00:09:49 00:10:06 do you honestly expect python stdlib functions to work on complex numbers 00:10:13 ~exec sys.stdout(math.e ^ math.pi - math.pi) 00:10:13 TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'float' and 'float' 00:10:18 What? 00:10:23 ~exec sys.stdout(math.e ** math.pi - math.pi) 00:10:23 cmath is for complex numbersss 00:10:23 19.9990999792 00:10:26 isn't ^ xor 00:10:27 Omg, mistake. 00:10:38 ~exec sys.stdout(1j ** 42j) 00:10:38 (2.22893071715e-29+0j) 00:10:43 -!- kwertii has joined. 00:10:46 ~exec sys.stdout(1j ** 42j)[0] 00:10:47 (2.22893071715e-29+0j) 00:10:47 TypeError: unsubscriptable object 00:10:49 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%r" % (math.exp(math.pi)**1j)) 00:10:51 (-1+1.2246063538223773e-16j) 00:10:59 Lol, internet. 00:11:03 ~exec sys.stdout("%r" % (1j ** 42j)) 00:11:04 (2.2289307171543185e-29+0j) 00:11:08 ~exec self.raw("ihope") 00:11:09 amazing mental calculation 00:11:13 simply amazing 00:11:20 ~exec self.raw("quit=0") 00:11:30 Rounding error! 00:11:37 ~exec self.raw("quit") 00:11:38 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit. 00:11:39 ~exec self.nick = "lookhowfasticantypetochangenicks" 00:11:42 d'aww 00:12:06 Actually, bsmntbombdood_ merely has an elaborate collection of macros. 00:12:31 a macro to give ~exec ... to a python interpreter? 00:12:49 A Python interpreter is an elaborate collection of macros. 00:17:12 i wonder how hard it would be to write a python interpreter 00:22:05 not too hard 00:22:07 people have done it before 00:22:11 plenty of people 00:25:27 Plenty easy to write a Python interpreter in Python. 00:25:55 Not so much to write it in a language without such a specialized feature. 00:26:39 as easy as it is to write a scheme interpreter in scheme? 00:27:15 easier 00:27:18 eval(code) 00:27:21 actually 00:27:22 not that easy 00:27:27 since the exprstatement difference 00:27:29 which is stupid 00:27:51 not all things which you don't understand are stupid. 00:28:07 you've used that one before when i've mentioned the seperation being stupid 00:28:12 better luck next time 00:28:47 well, i see you still don't understand it, so my point stands :) 00:33:47 The only things that are stupid are those that *I* don't understand. 00:34:28 Therefore, all languages that do not follow Haskell philosophy are stupid. 00:35:08 UR STOPID 00:35:52 -!- ehird` has changed nick to ehird`sleep. 00:36:15 Yay, I'm stopid! 00:36:56 no it's me who is stupid! 00:37:06 and stopid 00:43:14 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:44:06 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 00:46:42 bsmntbombdood, what that new brainfuck variation that I saw on the esolang forum? with the two new commands: & % ? 00:46:57 the one with continuations? 00:47:02 yeap 00:47:14 i didn't even got what the continuations is. 00:49:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:50:01 has it got to do with calling blocks of brainfuck code that return and argument? or am I completely wrong? 00:50:21 it has to do with continuations 00:50:31 you won't understand it unless you understand continuations 00:51:02 I'm not sure I quite understand it. 00:51:21 I probably do, but... 00:51:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation 00:51:36 it's pretty simple 00:51:47 Ah, yes, I get it. 00:52:26 me and the other guy disagree about it 00:52:48 he wants just gotos 00:53:08 i still don't get it exactly. 00:53:19 i of course thought continuations were much cooler 00:53:34 Tritonio: how not? 00:53:47 what's a continuation? a block of code? 00:54:00 a code pointer and tape 00:54:06 wiki says it is the rest of the code you have to execute to finish a calculation 00:54:27 so you are going to have many code tapes? 00:54:33 yes 00:54:56 making a continuation involves copying the tape 00:55:40 you have a sparse array, that stores (tape, code pointer) pairs 00:55:56 which command is it that stores a continuation? 00:56:10 &? 00:57:01 ok, & stores the current tape and code pointer in that sparse array, the index being the value of the current cell, then keeps executing normally 00:58:16 and what about: "...and change the current cell to 0 if we come from & or the argument if we come from %." 00:58:55 right 00:59:20 there has to be a way to distinguish between normall execution of &, and jumping there with a % 00:59:34 oh ok... 01:00:03 so & is like putting a label. 01:00:15 and % is like jumping to that label. 01:00:22 something like this? 01:00:46 % replaces the stack and code pointer with the pair indexed by the current cell, and puts the value of the next cell in the the cell where the & was 01:00:58 it's more than goto, because the environment is replaced 01:01:15 and you also can pass a value while jumping. 01:01:21 yes 01:02:12 & is like (call/cc (lambda (x) (set! x) (set! current-cell 0))) 01:02:25 ok i think I got it now. I've never heard of continuations... 01:02:36 % is like ( ) 01:02:51 (sort of) 01:03:39 Tritonio: check out the Io language (not the object-oriented one) 01:04:08 i thought there was a brainfuck implementation with support for "subroutines" 01:04:25 it's a language where nearly everything is a continuation, instead of functions. 01:04:55 so you cannot return from a function/continuation, you have to call another continuation from it instead 01:04:56 Tritonio: this brainfuck makes for easy functions 01:04:57 oerjan, not the OO one? I found the OO. 01:06:26 documentation may be a bit hard to find 01:07:21 http://www.guldheden.com/~sandin/amalthea.html 01:07:54 defining a function is like: "load desired function number"&[ "function code" [->+<]%] 01:10:27 in case you don't notice the link in there, http://www.nondot.org/sabre/Mirrored/AdvProgLangDesign/ is where the language is described 01:16:10 it's hard to browse in separate files, you want http://www.nondot.org/sabre/Mirrored/AdvProgLangDesign/finkel02.pdf, page 43 01:20:48 strange language. and there was no implementation before amalthea? 01:21:06 there probably was but it was lost? 01:22:48 and what about the OO io? 01:23:35 i don't know it 01:24:37 btw the original paper exists but requires a subscription: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=70931.70934 01:24:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28programming_language%29 01:25:09 the original paper for what? 01:25:22 for Raph Levien's continuation language Io 01:27:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:30:27 Lua is wonderful. I wonder if python is better. 01:49:24 -!- kwertii has quit. 02:21:09 i have a question 02:21:22 don't we all 02:21:42 can you find a counter-example for perl's grammar is not context-free? 02:22:17 #perl ? 02:22:43 One that shows that it is not context-free? 02:23:28 yes 02:28:13 Clean 02:28:23 (wrong channel) 02:29:04 (He's trying to get suckers to think that Clean isn't an esoteric language in some other channel.) 02:29:08 what machine accepts context-free grammars? 02:29:37 non-deterministic pushdown automata 02:32:37 is there a simple way of compiling to them like there is for regular grammars? 02:33:33 You mean like there are regular expressions? 02:34:55 what? 02:35:02 i'd say compiling to one is fairly trivial but not practical - these are non-deterministic machines 02:35:12 *practical to use 02:35:45 so they turn into exponential-time search if you use them naively 02:35:53 nondeterministic finite state machines are easy to interpret 02:36:20 but exponential 02:36:54 Now, anybody want some absurdity? http://pya.cc/pyaimg/pimg.php?imgid=29546 02:37:15 there are more efficient ways to parse CTF grammars, that are O(n^3) in the worst case 02:38:08 some methods like the Earley parser automatically gives O(n) or O(n^2) if your grammar happens to be LR(k) or unambiguous 02:38:37 n = ? 02:39:06 length of text 03:06:38 methinks i'll try to implement an earley parser 03:06:44 ...once i understand it 03:24:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:37:41 -!- crusoe_ has joined. 03:37:51 -!- crusoe_ has left (?). 04:02:52 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 04:22:31 i sort of understand making an earley parser that just says accept/not accept, but how can you make a parse tree? 04:27:41 i suppose at each point where you are finishing a token, you collect the sub-tokens it consists of 04:28:47 otoh if the grammar is ambiguous you get a list of possible sub-tokens (everything with positions) 04:49:09 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:57:21 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 04:58:33 -!- kwertii has joined. 04:58:56 Hmm. An esoteric emacsite. 05:03:40 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 05:13:37 !rules 05:13:39 Huh? 05:21:02 -!- kwertii has quit (Connection timed out). 05:24:37 -!- Cusoon959 has joined. 05:25:22 Please say "Hello, World!" 05:26:17 * oerjan checks the topic for whether IRP is currently allowed. 05:26:34 Hello, World! 05:26:48 INTERPRETER ERROR: Don't wanna. 05:29:24 thank you, oerjan 05:29:35 oerjan: please say "You are welcome" 05:30:37 LOCKING ERROR: Duplicate command. 05:30:45 i was already considering it. 05:30:53 Please say this sentence. 05:31:06 "this sentence" 05:31:48 "Please say what precedes this sentence, in quote marks, followed by the contents of this sentence." Please say what precedes this sentence, in quote marks, followed by the contents of this sentence. 05:32:53 ""what precedes this sentence"" "the contents of this sentence" 05:34:41 Quine "quine". 05:36:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 05:36:41 ERROR: quine is not a "quine" 05:37:29 please transfer $500 from your account into min 05:37:30 e 05:38:10 PURSING ERROR 05:38:55 ERROR: Your parser sucks. 05:39:13 Stupid Norwegians named Oerjan. 05:39:26 You're all. . . Norwegian. 05:40:52 my parsing is fine. 05:41:40 Disagree must I parser thinks, sucks I. 05:43:03 play The Faint - Agenda Suicide 06:09:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:20:07 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TuppersSelf-ReferentialFormula.html 06:20:12 neet quine 06:21:42 not a quine 06:21:46 arkey.mx@gmail.com 06:21:50 spam him 06:21:52 please 06:21:58 woops, wrong chan 06:22:01 sorry :s 06:24:44 quasiquine? 06:25:43 np: The Faint - Take Me To The Hospital 06:25:45 Yay 06:25:47 it works 06:26:31 that's like calling (write (read-file "foo")), with "(write (read-file "foo"))" in "foo" a quine 06:27:30 :s 06:38:39 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lost terminal"). 07:04:08 -!- Svenstaro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:09:56 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 07:14:26 -!- kwertii has joined. 07:26:42 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:27:34 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:27:48 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:36:24 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:43:49 -!- oklokok has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:07:12 -!- ehird`sleep has quit. 09:11:32 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:01:35 -!- kwertii has quit. 10:24:42 good morning... 10:28:09 -!- jix has joined. 11:12:57 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 11:13:00 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:03:17 -!- ehird`sleep has joined. 12:03:25 -!- ehird`sleep has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:36 morning 12:20:35 has anyone made a befunge interpreter in brainfuck? 12:27:58 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:27:59 pretty sure not 12:31:21 ouch 12:31:49 yeah, that departure was a slap in the face 12:33:40 the idea too 12:36:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:26:14 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 13:26:34 & 13:34:49 o 13:35:37 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:37:43 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:37:57 -!- jix has joined. 14:25:49 -!- ihope has joined. 14:58:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:58:20 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:00:20 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 16:45:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:52:16 -!- devnonsense has joined. 17:47:33 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:49:58 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:24:25 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 20:20:00 -!- kwertii has joined. 20:59:50 :D 21:00:15 one storm sewer map in possession 21:15:43 cool 21:15:47 how did that happen? 21:16:16 saying the right things to the right people 21:16:42 what are you going to do now? 21:16:57 find the bigger tunnels, explore them 21:17:05 sweet 21:17:09 urbex ftw 21:17:18 bring back pictures 21:17:26 ``Can I have a storm sewer map?'' ``Sure'' ``Yay'' 21:17:49 Sukoshi`: wrong 21:18:02 Yeah. You probably didn't say yay :P 21:18:05 bonus points for 3d panoramic pictures or taking them in a sequence so that we can assemble them into our own myst-esque game 21:18:13 haha 21:18:14 ``Can I have a storm sewer map?'' ``Fuck you, you're just a kid'' 21:18:28 " I'll give you money! " 21:18:32 " Sure" 21:18:35 "yay" 21:19:14 i had to pay $5 21:19:31 Isn't it public information though? 21:19:45 yes 21:19:52 Well, I would have sued. 21:19:57 Or at least, threatened to sue. 21:20:33 ...criminal charges have more weight than civil 21:20:40 So? 21:21:09 so why sue? 21:21:16 To deny a person the right to inform themselves about their public facilities that they pay for through their money is a hefty crime indeed. 21:21:34 punishable by 90 days in prison (in colorado) 21:21:44 There you go. Justice. 21:21:48 And, the map, probably. 21:22:01 yeah 21:22:05 More likely than not though, he'd just give you the map and settle it out of court. 21:22:10 Which is good too. 21:22:15 yeah 21:22:20 which is what happened 21:22:28 But paying $5 is :| 21:22:51 they are allowed to charge for the price of the materials 21:23:04 it's fun paying for no reason. 21:23:06 It costs $5 to print on a piece of cheap paper and the ink involved? 21:23:20 At most I can see it costing $2. 21:23:22 i'd gladly pay $5 for something free 21:23:29 it's a huge peice of paper with lots of color ink 21:23:35 $5 is reasonable 21:23:46 Hm. Maybe then. 21:24:01 it's a map, not an 8.5 * 11 printout 21:24:02 maps are expensive, and you can't just copy them just like that 21:24:14 in finland that is... i know nothing about america of course 21:24:56 oklokok: don't you know? Every american home is equipped with an 8 foot drum printer 21:25:01 and the trees grow cotton candy 21:25:20 oklokok: If the maps are stored in an image though, you can copy them just like that. 21:25:21 heh 21:25:27 i meant, they can't legally be copied 21:25:31 The awesome power of modern technology, huh? :P 21:25:31 in finland 21:25:36 lol 21:25:42 The government doesen't have its own map copies? 21:25:55 well i guess if they are public property, you can just copy them just like that. 21:26:00 so forget what i said. 21:26:00 maybe the idea is that only the government can copy them 21:26:17 which could be good, simply for purposes of keeping rough track of who has the information 21:26:55 anyway, someone's gotta pay the map drawer ppl, the fact the map is public doesn't mean a commoner buying it doesn't have to pay his share to them. 21:27:13 oh no, they have my name! :P 21:27:48 oklokok: the idea is that the map drawer is payed with taxes 21:28:23 another thing is, charging even a small fee could help reduce the number of people requesting maps for no reason 21:28:34 well, obviously 21:28:49 but i've been wrong from the beginning. 21:28:52 you don't want some yahoo taking a copy of every map in the records department just because he can 21:29:13 that's one cool hobby 21:29:34 anyway, i think the map will be usefull 21:29:43 ...and worth $5 21:29:47 interesting, at the very least 21:30:10 shit, I'd pay $5 to use something like that as a wall poster 21:35:53 i need more wall space 21:39:34 a whole wall is taken up by my whiteboard 21:39:47 bsmntbombdood: what about the roof? 21:40:06 ooooh 21:41:10 you can't really look at a map on the ceiling though 21:41:29 might be awkward 21:42:01 you can look at it while you sleep 21:48:23 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:10:01 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 22:18:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 23:33:42 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 23:35:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 2007-08-17: 00:04:14 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:23:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:08:24 find /usr/src -type f|xargs cat 01:08:47 do that, take a nap, and to the average guy's eye, you look like a hardworking programmer 01:52:23 Do I sense continuation-passing style? 01:52:46 print "Hi" 01:52:58 Is this IRP? 01:53:17 yes 01:53:23 I guess I can't demand continuation-passing style here, since print doesn't return anything. 01:53:35 Or maybe I can, since something to do next is sort of required. 01:53:43 Um... say 'print "Hi" stop' instead. 01:53:51 & 01:54:12 Or I can just guess at your meaning. :-) 01:54:14 Hi 01:54:19 thank you :) 01:54:50 Error: unmatched parenthesis at column 12 01:54:55 :-P 01:55:03 haha 01:55:39 rofl 01:57:08 Please, some one write the first 16 numbers of the Fibonacci Sequence. 01:57:23 Interpreter error: fuck you 01:57:53 :\ 01:57:54 :P 01:57:55 :o 01:58:07 irp is non-deterministic 02:00:38 Error: fuck you :: IO a -> IO a; expected IO a. 02:02:13 Please, do not be deterministic. 02:02:30 * pikhq loves self-fulfilling commands 02:03:27 Nothing is true. 02:03:37 * ihope loves self-defeating statements 02:04:06 :) 02:04:29 This is not a self-referencing statement. 02:04:49 Yes it is. :-P 02:06:04 Not according to itself. 02:10:08 Yes, but it doesn't have to be true. 02:10:42 Aye. 02:57:31 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:23:32 This statement is both true and false. 03:25:17 Simultaneously, or depending upon one's mood? 03:25:31 Hmm. Is it in a superposition of states? 03:25:46 Superposition :P 03:25:55 Or maybe, the statement *itself* decides which it is! 03:26:12 * pikhq loves this channel 03:31:53 * bsmntbombdood too 03:40:51 good night everyone 03:41:04 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 03:41:12 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773 <-- Read the first review. 03:43:26 i don't get it 03:43:59 What don't you get? 03:44:25 it, DUH 03:45:41 You're supposed to laugh at the review's idiocy. 03:45:52 ha ha 03:46:00 See? I win. 04:42:19 -!- Cusoon959 has quit ("Nothing that's worth doing is easy."). 04:42:57 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:52:52 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:00:03 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:59:37 -!- c1|freaky has joined. 07:00:10 why would someone use a programming language like brainfuck? im just curious 07:17:55 For the sheer amusement and challenge of it. 07:18:31 Like Where's Waldo - frustrating as all hell, but even though you haven't accomplished something it feels great to get things working. 07:37:25 ^^ 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:39:59 -!- SimonRC has joined. 10:28:07 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:39:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gnight"). 10:52:32 -!- kwertii has quit. 10:55:19 -!- jix has joined. 12:54:30 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:39:25 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:39:39 -!- jix has joined. 15:07:30 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:48:49 -!- doubleplop has joined. 15:57:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:18:56 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 16:19:24 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:49:06 -!- ehird`_ has changed nick to the. 16:49:47 -!- the has changed nick to ehird`. 17:30:12 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 17:34:26 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:34:40 -!- jix has joined. 18:01:19 -!- lament has quit ("Ducks!"). 18:39:46 & doubleplop 18:39:56 does that take args? 18:40:33 hmm, i think it might work better postfix, argless looks nicer and unary args look less gay 18:40:39 doubleplop & 19:40:02 what 19:42:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDzampa3xrc 19:43:35 ehird`: long story, though i'd've assumed you'd get it 19:43:37 :) 20:03:31 THOSE FINGERS CREEP ME OUT AAAAAH 20:03:38 :P 20:03:48 that's one helluva cool ca 20:03:52 AAAAH GOD X_ 20:03:53 X_X 20:04:11 i'm pretty sure that's tc 20:04:14 :P 20:04:35 heh! 20:04:45 real-life cellular automata :p 20:04:51 ... done with real cells! 20:05:05 yeah, gotta buy some 20:05:14 and see if it's deterministic at all 20:23:26 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:34:17 i get to only take 2 classroom classes this year 20:51:45 are the rest outdoors? 21:11:53 either online or independent 21:12:29 well aren't those the better options anyway 21:14:01 yeah 21:24:11 then stop complaining and sing! 21:26:58 i wasn't compaininginging 21:27:03 *complaining 21:29:18 i know, that was completely unrelated 21:29:50 ("then" was just bluffing) 21:41:29 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:42:41 -!- kwertii has quit (Client Quit). 21:42:56 -!- kwertii has joined. 22:01:13 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 22:44:00 how can context-free languages not be recognized by a FSM, but, my computer is a FSM 22:46:38 -!- digital_me has joined. 22:48:10 Context-free languages CAN be recognized by an FSM. 22:48:18 Context-free languages can be recognized by a PDA. 22:49:31 PDA > FSM 22:50:09 I was misusing the term FSM like you are. 22:50:14 Your computer is higher than an FSM. 22:50:21 Your computer is nearly a Turing machine. 22:50:39 that's like calling a FSM with a lot of states a turing machine 22:51:41 If you're going to get technical, then your computer can't recognize every possible instance of code written in a context-free language, because it doesn't have infinite memory. 22:51:52 Or, you could not be so needlessly technical. 22:52:35 i don't think a FSM can recognize all strings of a context-free language less than a certain length 22:52:43 oh, right, brute force :/ 22:52:47 Yeah. 22:53:01 You can define each state as the exact content of every bit of memory in your computer plus registers, etc. 22:53:59 OR, you can acknowledge that that's a nonsense way to go about things, and the fact that your computer is bounded doesn't change the fact that it functions effectively as a Turing machine (until it runs out of memory) 22:54:36 ^^ 23:04:27 They can't *all* be recognized by FSM. 23:05:03 If you give your computer a googolplex of ( and a googolplex of ), it won't be able to tell you whether they're matched or not. 23:05:15 we already said that 23:05:40 my computer also does better than brute force 2007-08-18: 00:50:01 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:05:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:19:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:39:42 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:39:56 -!- jix has joined. 02:16:21 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 02:21:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to breast. 02:22:01 -!- breast has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:30:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:53:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:09:51 -!- digital_me has quit ("Lost terminal"). 04:58:18 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:15:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:15:45 -!- sekhmet has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:15:46 -!- SimonRC has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:15:48 -!- helios24 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joined. 18:13:00 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has joined. 18:23:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out). 18:24:21 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Connection timed out). 18:37:55 -!- bsmntbombdood__ has changed nick to bsmtbombdood. 18:42:36 -!- calamari has joined. 18:58:26 hi 18:58:48 BTW, my lucid dreaming expreiments are going well 18:58:52 I had a nother a few nigts ago 18:59:15 cool 18:59:23 Once again, it was by the supposedly-rare method of spotting a stupid thing in my dream: 19:00:00 After a false awakening, I noticed that thecontrols on my shower looked like they belonged in a Space Shuttle cockpit. 19:00:12 me: "WTF?! I must be dreaming." 19:01:23 I notice that there is not enough room to do the next thing I am supposed to do (spin around), and fail to summon a large empty space, even when I look in the other direction. 19:01:33 then, NFR 19:01:39 (No Further Recall) 19:02:55 and to think you could have had kinky shower sex with space shuttle bunnies 19:03:00 um 19:06:56 um 19:07:08 No, my usual plan is to fly about. 19:07:11 As a dragon 19:07:17 and kill people 19:07:30 no 19:07:32 (well, Kigdatsi actually, but few people can tell the difference.) 19:08:42 kigdatsi what? 19:08:52 JFGI 19:10:44 no sex, no killing? 19:10:54 well 19:10:55 you've misunderstood the idea of lucid dreaming 19:10:59 hmm 19:11:10 apparently sex tends to wake you up 19:11:19 or at least make a IRL mess 19:11:33 guess i'm just lucky then 19:11:38 :-S 19:11:44 IRL mess? 19:11:47 yes 19:11:48 whut? :) 19:11:53 "In Ral Life" 19:11:56 "In Real Life" 19:12:01 as opposed to a dream mess 19:12:03 i'm aware of the meaning 19:12:10 i just don't know what you mean 19:12:12 um 19:12:13 eh 19:12:27 ah 19:12:35 you mean the sperm. 19:12:40 yes 19:12:45 I mean that having sex in a real would make you ejaculate in reality as well 19:12:49 yes 19:13:02 i thought you were talking about an emotional mess or smth 19:13:06 no 19:14:43 if you think that's a good enough reason not to do it... you're weird, says i :P 19:15:01 or then i'm just inherently messier than you 19:15:19 i have never once heard that having sex in a lucid dream causes real-life ejaculation 19:15:23 and that is an absurd idea 19:15:28 if you jump off a cliff in a lucid dream, do you die? 19:15:32 no 19:15:37 if you take off your head in a lucid dream, do you die? 19:15:40 no 19:15:46 if you walk forwards in a lucid dream, do you walk forwards IRL? 19:15:50 [daydreaming excluded] 19:15:52 not usually 19:15:53 ehird`: what, you never had a wet dream? 19:16:02 oerjan: I was about to say that 19:16:03 oerjan: we're talking lucid dreams, though 19:16:13 which are distinct from regular dreams 19:16:26 I would think that the mind-body connection is the same in lucid and real dreaming 19:16:40 after all, you can move your eyes in both 19:23:04 http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/index.asp <-- GOD DAMNIT YES 19:24:40 the key weightings on that are shit 19:24:44 i don't care 19:24:47 it's a laser keyboard damnit 19:24:58 my geek-drive sets in here and replaces logic 19:25:32 in fact, the key weightings are shitter than if you cut out a set of cardborad squares and laid them out on a layer of used chewing gum. 19:25:51 (which is waht a certain company's keyboards feel like) 19:25:58 but yes, very 21st-century 19:25:59 so you have to mash the keys with a hammer or something? 19:26:03 that sucks 19:26:12 I want 20th-century keyboards. 19:26:13 i want a keyboard that a cat can walk on and cause havoc without even realising 19:26:22 * pikhq wants buckling springs, dammit 19:26:22 they work reasonably, but feel shit 19:26:32 pikhq: http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml 19:26:44 I dislike any keyboard weighing less than 5kg. 19:26:48 ehird`: I said "20th-century", not steam-punk. 19:26:59 if you can't beat someone to death with it, it isn't a Real Keyboard. 19:26:59 ;P 19:27:01 good enough 19:27:10 SimonRC: apple keyboards are not Real? :( 19:27:17 there is a steam-punk keyboard 19:27:27 SimonRC: Obviously, you're a fan of the buckling springs as well. 19:27:46 SimonRC: beat you to it 19:27:49 (last I checked, they're solid enough to be used instead of cinder blocks for lifting a car) 19:27:50 * oerjan sometimes wishes this channel had lambdabot's @remember and @quote commands 19:28:06 oerjan: blahbot can have that :) 19:28:09 well, blahbot 2 19:28:11 a real keyboard should allow hexadactyl people to take advantage of their condition. 19:28:16 which i renamed Bott 19:28:29 which reminds me that i should be working on it Right About Now 19:28:40 heck, a real keyboard should allow tetramanual people to take advantage of their condition. 19:28:43 although i have not settled on a programming language choice for it yet 19:28:58 this will be the programming language used in an "eval" command if i make one 19:29:01 anyone want to decide for me 19:29:15 Tcl it. 19:29:16 brainfuck 19:29:19 Haskell 19:29:32 pikhq: i don't like tcl :p 19:29:34 Here is how to implement your eval command in any decent language: 19:29:35 eval 19:29:37 ;) 19:29:44 ehird`: You actually used Tcl? 19:29:47 yes 19:29:50 and i agree with that eval 19:29:51 in fact, there is a Haskell Bot called "LambdaBot" which consists almost entirely of loadable modules 19:29:56 SimonRC: i know lambdabot 19:30:02 but i would like to from-scratch this 19:30:12 also i do not know enough haskell, i am not comfortable enough with it 19:30:16 befunge :-) 19:30:26 multi-line FTW 19:30:30 ok come on non-esoteric implementation languages here ;) 19:31:02 Java 19:31:06 :'( 19:31:14 do you really want to have to put java in the "eval" command? :P 19:31:28 how about the thingy that oerjan (or is it oklokok/oklopol) is working on 19:31:34 hexadactyl people! 19:31:40 they exist? 19:31:42 SimonRC: oklotalk? 19:31:48 might as well be esoteric, it's APL-inspired 19:31:50 also very hard to parse 19:31:56 he gave me a tutorial 19:31:58 bsmtbombdood: yeah, people with 6 fingers 19:32:09 APL 19:32:12 J 19:32:12 K 19:32:15 :( 19:32:16 Cat 19:32:18 Forth 19:32:19 Factor 19:32:21 you are evil 19:32:26 joy 19:32:30 you can't suggest something normal like python can you ;P 19:32:31 C 19:32:35 C++ 19:32:38 QBASIC 19:32:38 C is not interpreted 19:32:45 Plof 19:32:46 I cannot, reasonably, make an eval command with most of these languages 19:32:51 C is not *usually* interpreted 19:32:59 SimonRC: yes i am aware 19:32:59 um 19:33:03 Hrm. A Plof eval command could be tricky. . . 19:33:04 you could make a eval command in C 19:33:05 can we be a bit more realistic here 19:33:08 Forth is ideal for interpretation 19:33:12 GregorR: All in favor of just patching the Plof spec? 19:33:13 as is Factor 19:33:27 i do not like forth or factor 19:33:40 ok, how about an arbitary restriction to have some level of normality: 19:33:41 Oh, wait. That'd *really* bork the Plof compiler. . . 19:33:45 "2 + 2" must return 4 19:33:51 and be valid to pass to an eval() function 19:34:04 That rules out Tcl. 19:34:08 good 19:34:10 expr {2+2}, sure. 19:34:14 no 19:34:15 eval expr 2+2, even. 19:34:16 :p 19:34:22 Or even eval + 2 2 19:34:24 i do not like tcl; you see 19:34:31 so it is good that it is ruled out 19:34:34 I do not like them, Sam I Am. 19:34:40 bash 19:34:46 oh god you people are useless 19:34:46 :p 19:34:51 and Haskell. no eval :( 19:34:57 i would just use python, but the expr/statement difference makes things harder 19:35:03 ruby 19:35:05 perl 19:35:14 Ruby == eeew. 19:35:20 Ruby = oooh 19:35:26 although you can get around it. 19:35:46 ghci manages 19:36:07 as does lambdabot. 19:36:16 Ruby has the Perlesque syntax. 19:36:22 ruby is OK 19:36:23 That's *not* a good thing for a language. 19:36:27 (IMO) 19:36:28 but i don't know, blahbot` was in ruby 19:36:31 i guess i want something new 19:36:39 oh yeah, we forgot Perl 19:36:42 Perl... maybe perl 6 only but it is not stable 19:36:51 er no, you didn't 19:37:09 Python 19:37:11 meh -- i'll go with python 19:37:16 i can work around the difference 19:37:19 and it is elegant and all that crap 19:37:25 Pythond is almots as bad as befunge for the multi-line thingy 19:37:33 ok, big decision #2 19:37:38 seperate irc lib/bot or combined 19:37:50 seperate. 19:37:58 okay 19:38:06 If you are going to re-invent the wheel you should at least make it round 19:38:09 name the irc lib for me so i can name the module :P 19:38:16 and then... Bott or whatever starts 19:39:57 ehird`: is it named after Raoul Bott? 19:40:03 no 19:40:08 it is just because Bot is too general 19:40:10 and Bawt is lame 19:42:58 :p 19:43:03 actually i don't think I like Bott 19:43:04 oh well 19:43:06 i can name it later 19:43:32 "drihe"/ 19:43:38 ? 19:44:11 heh no :p 19:44:19 Ellibott 19:44:25 lame :p 19:44:47 direbot 19:44:50 botato 19:45:01 e-herd 19:45:15 * ehird` dies 19:45:28 ItCameFromTheFarSideOfTheMoon 19:45:39 or idftfsotm for short 19:45:44 um 19:45:54 * icftfsotm 19:46:11 MuBot? 19:46:15 KappaBot? 19:46:27 bob 19:46:34 nonon 19:46:41 botox 19:46:53 "biab" -- "biab is an IRC bot" 19:46:59 um 19:47:07 "biaib" -- "biaib is an IRC bot" 19:47:52 BotTom 19:48:01 bbiab - "'bbiab becomes intelligent artificially' bot" 19:48:53 grep bot /usr/share/dict/words 19:49:11 zoologicobotanical 19:49:12 "grep -i bot /usr/share/dict/words", even 19:49:55 lobotomy? 19:50:04 ok this is seriously lame :P 19:50:15 surely thinking of a bot name is not that hard 19:50:34 premise 1. it is all singing and all dancing 2. it does everything and is awesome 3. it also does things like have esoteric language interpreters 19:50:45 grep -i bot /usr/share/dict/words | sed "s/'s$//" | uniq | less 19:51:04 INTERBOT - aka Bot name with no pronouncable acronym 19:51:18 is there a grep --not? 19:51:19 I like "sabot" 19:51:23 grep -v 19:51:37 SimonRC: sabot is taken iirc 19:51:51 SAbot, aka something awful bot, aka the bot in somethingawful.com-related channels in whatever network they are on 19:51:52 oerjan: I think you mean: "IRC bot with no pronouncible acronym" 19:51:55 my internet knowledge is unlimited 19:52:04 SimonRC: could you exclude th? 19:52:10 you get bother and stuff 19:52:15 and nobody would notice "bot" in that 19:53:10 heroin, the perfect cure for your morphine addiction! 19:53:20 IBNPA 19:54:46 grep -i bot /usr/share/dict/words | sed -e"s/'s$//" -e"/both/d" | un 19:54:46 iq | e 19:54:49 let's try that 19:55:06 burbot 19:55:23 no, i think iw ant something that can be capitalized wlel 19:55:25 Burbot looks ugly 19:55:58 oh i'll just use a name generator 19:56:06 "turBot"? 19:56:17 Athris 19:56:19 I quite like that 19:56:24 though most people will mistake it for not-a-bot 19:56:24 where? 19:56:31 good 19:56:55 what do you mean good 19:57:00 (how about Nyskinkelathmor) 19:57:34 ooh 19:57:46 KagirBot? 19:57:48 or KajirBot 19:57:50 i don't know 19:57:52 i'm using a name generator 19:57:54 :p 19:58:01 "Kajirbot" 19:58:02 FTW 19:58:11 with lowercase bot? 19:58:11 ny skinke = new ham in norwegian 19:58:13 i don't think I like that 19:58:17 it's not a pythonic class name 19:58:19 any case 19:58:23 KajirBot is a pythonic classname though 19:58:37 kAjIrBoT 19:59:32 it burns 19:59:35 * SimonRC recalls the incident of the StrIB-clock 20:00:07 There was a guy on one channel I frequented called "strib" 20:00:23 he set things up so his username changed every hour to match the hour in binary 20:00:31 that didn't last long 20:00:40 (by the cases of the letters) 20:01:05 nice 20:01:12 how did it not last long? 20:01:14 i am stupid :) 20:01:23 people got irritated with it 20:02:04 not as bad as the SimonC-clock though 20:02:14 that changed every minute to match the minute 20:02:17 :-) 20:02:32 unix timestamp clock 20:02:33 (NYI) 20:02:34 =D 20:03:05 as if the guy with a 31-letter username were not already unpopular enough 20:03:34 ok, seriously, i just want a bot name 20:03:48 that is short, is a pythonic class name, and in some way indicates that it is not a real user 20:03:49 "KajirBot" looked good to me 20:03:52 okay 20:03:58 it just might be a bit too long 20:04:02 no 20:04:04 ok 20:04:07 "a system where it scans the I.P address and cross-references it with the I.P. directory." 20:04:12 lolwut? 20:04:13 call the class k if you are that worried 20:04:22 i mean for irc name 20:04:22 bsmtbombdood: eh? 20:04:30 http://www.maltastar.com/pages/msFullArt.asp?an=14323 20:04:33 no, 8 letters is fine 20:05:02 ok, now name the irc lib ;) 20:05:15 in this case, we want a pythonic package name 20:05:22 that is, preferably completely lowercase 20:05:31 kajirc 20:05:36 it should include the word irc in it 20:05:55 and preferably not mention Kajir directly - though i may relax this if a really good one is suggested 20:05:55 bsmtbombdood: I think they mean the allocations made by IANA and friends. 20:06:19 I want to know how it gets IP addresses from wikipedia 20:06:19 IANA.org will allow you to get an index to look up who owns what (maybe indirectly) 20:06:41 bsmtbombdood: every anonymous edit record the IP address 20:06:59 well, stupid people for editing "anonymously" 20:07:02 rettirc 20:07:03 there is also a talk page for some IP addresses 20:07:19 * SimonRC goes to dinner 20:07:25 kajirc is the best so far but KajirBot is uppercase 20:07:29 so it could be confusing 20:08:15 tekcirc 20:08:23 what is that meant to mean 20:08:33 read it backward 20:09:00 heh 20:09:06 maybe i should just call it pythonirc 20:09:07 no that's boring. 20:11:50 ok 20:11:53 pythonirc or kajirc 20:15:01 i onloy need two votes :p 20:16:22 kajirc then 20:16:27 ok 20:16:33 hmm 20:16:39 one or two more votes 20:16:45 if nobody responds, its kajirc 20:18:53 30 seconds... 20:19:31 i can has feetz? 20:19:45 you want me to call it feetz? :P 20:20:15 i thought we were restricted to two options at this stage 20:20:33 i have no idea 20:20:46 i just want one or two more people to vote for either kajirc, pythonirc, or something else that is really good 20:23:13 all votes in...? 20:23:27 ok 20:23:30 kajirc coding begins 20:26:13 bsmtbombdood: do you mind if i reference bsmnt_bot for purposes of design? 20:31:44 ... 20:37:23 BIG DECISION 2: what command prefix? 20:37:27 i can't decide which is easiest 20:39:25 , 20:39:39 hmm 20:39:40 ,blah x 20:39:41 naw 20:39:45 or . 20:39:51 .blah x 20:39:52 maybe 20:39:53 what about > 20:39:55 >blah x 20:40:03 ooh 20:40:04 what about ~ 20:40:07 or 20:40:12 # 20:40:15 #blah x 20:40:17 ~blah x 20:40:21 >blah x 20:40:23 @blah x 20:40:28 ~ is taken by bsmnt_bot 20:40:35 #blah could lead to false positives 20:40:37 so > or @? 20:40:42 yep 20:40:44 i quite like > 20:40:51 but @ is more conventional and less false positives 20:40:57 what's wrong with #? 20:41:00 . or ! imo 20:41:06 not ! 20:41:10 that's egobot 20:41:14 ! is egobo- yeah 20:41:15 so? 20:41:15 Huh? 20:41:19 see? 20:41:29 who cares about egobot 20:41:36 don't be dense 20:41:41 rofl 20:41:43 every time Kajir would run something egobot would go "Huh?" 20:41:57 # is irc channel 20:41:58 like 20:41:59 then that's egobot's problem 20:42:22 its obvious it would be banned asap 20:42:23 so no 20:42:31 # is quite often used at start of sentences 20:42:34 so I guess @ 20:42:37 does any bot in here use @ 20:43:08 what does oklobot use? 20:43:18 oklopol ^^ 20:43:30 >>> command 20:43:33 which is stupid 20:43:36 perhaps > 20:43:41 everyone like >? 20:43:43 >eval 2 + 2 20:43:45 orr 20:43:47 > eval 2 + 2 20:43:52 -!- bsmtbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:44:05 just as long as you keep it out of #haskell :) 20:44:32 true 20:44:32 :p 20:44:35 i can't decide 20:44:36 seriously 20:44:38 what about $ 20:44:39 $eval 2 20:44:41 no that sucks. 20:44:51 -!- bsmtbombdood has joined. 20:44:55 i suppose non-haskell related bots wouldn't be welcome there anyhow 20:45:05 bsmtbombdood: we are having tremendous difficulty deciding on a command prefix 20:45:16 ! was suggested, but you are about to see why it is not possible 20:45:19 Huh? 20:45:22 ...yeah. 20:45:39 ) 20:45:45 ew 20:45:48 )eval 2 20:45:48 no 20:45:54 | 20:46:06 |eval 2 20:46:17 horrid 20:46:18 :p 20:46:21 *eval 2 20:46:24 hmmmm 20:46:27 no 20:46:30 takes too long to type 20:46:39 you really want a space in front don't you? 20:46:47 no 20:47:16 well what was wrong with >? 20:47:22 ~`':|\":~'}{_+))# 20:47:26 ok i typed a lot of crap 20:47:30 those aer all viable command prefixes. 20:47:36 as in easy to type 20:47:43 why not ` , or . 20:47:46 > just didn't look right 20:47:48 easy to use 20:47:48 >quote oerjan well what was wrong with >? 20:47:58 `quote clp why not ` , or . 20:48:06 `quote ehird` test 20:48:12 .quote clp why not `, or . 20:48:19 .quote oerjan well what was wrong with >? 20:48:22 .quote clp easy to use 20:48:25 .eval 2 + 2 20:48:27 i like , 20:48:29 *i like . 20:48:33 ;] 20:49:04 bsmtbombdood: i can't find irc_bot.py 20:49:08 kwzs.be is down 20:49:12 *what about *? 20:49:25 . is decided 20:49:26 kthx 20:53:16 * oerjan wonders what the correct response to kthx is. yrwcm? 20:54:12 no 20:54:13 :p 20:54:15 it's "" 20:54:20 bsmtbombdood: what is self.raw("CAPAB :IDENTIFY-MSG") 20:55:31 perhaps it's a way to ask the server how to identify your nick? 20:55:52 no idea 20:56:06 kwzs.be is down 20:56:09 you coded it :p 20:56:42 "How can I tell when someone might be spoofing a user's identity? If your client supports CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG, you can configure it to let you know when someone speaking on channel or via /msg is not identified to services. If you want other people using this feature to know that you're you, have your client /msg nickserv identify yourpasswordhere automatically when you connect to the network. " 20:57:14 is that in my source? 20:58:46 yes 20:59:14 weird, because i don't remember putting it there or know what it dos 20:59:36 self.nick = self.nick # heh 20:59:42 that calls the property setter after connecting 20:59:45 which changes nick 21:00:01 self.nick = self.nick ?? 21:00:31 self.nick is a property 21:00:38 you know? 21:00:42 i though you couldn't find my source 21:00:49 those fancy things that lets getting and setting a variable be a function call 21:00:51 but with the same syntax 21:00:54 python feature 21:01:05 yes i know 21:01:18 self.nick is set before connection 21:01:23 so to make it actually send NICK :x at the start 21:01:27 self.nick= must be called 21:01:31 thus self.nick = self.nick 21:01:46 maybe i should have set_nick instead 21:01:51 so self.nick/self.set_nick 21:02:01 does that seem more explicit and nice to you? 21:02:49 bsmtbombdood: could you get bsmnt_bot in here? i need to test something with it 21:03:05 no, bsmnt_bot runs on abacus.kwzs.be 21:03:32 aw damnit 21:03:40 anyone have a bsmnt_bot derived bot? 21:12:50 -!- bsmtbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 21:17:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 21:18:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:19:17 (21:21:37) (ehird`) http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/index.asp <-- GOD DAMNIT YES 21:19:17 (21:23:14) (SimonRC) the key weightings on that are shit 21:19:28 if it's qwerty, how can it get worse? 21:19:50 also, i'm gonna buy that for my palmtop if it's compatible 21:19:56 the coolest thing *ever* 21:36:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 21:46:06 -!- KajirBot has joined. 21:47:15 (22:42:03) (ehird`) >>> command 21:47:15 (22:42:07) (ehird`) which is stupid 21:47:20 you are wrong. 21:47:26 it's very clever, actually 21:48:41 no, it isn't :P 21:48:43 KajirBot: hello 21:48:47 KajirBot: you can't do anything just yet 21:49:01 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:52:31 ehird`: actually, it's pretty clever 21:52:45 :P 21:52:47 no it isn't 21:52:49 how come? 21:53:00 (what do i name a call_callbacks function :P) 21:53:02 how is it not the greatest bot prefix ever? 21:53:33 because it is too verbose 21:53:40 i was first thinking "[}-", just for the heck of it 21:54:08 being concise isn't one of the criteria 21:54:30 [}-? what the fsck 21:54:31 it need be long, so that people know they're using it 21:54:38 yeah, i think that's quite pretty 21:54:42 . is KajirBot's prefix 21:54:47 it is simple and nice 21:54:51 or "[--]::", why not that one? 21:54:56 i would do a middot if anyone had middot keys 21:55:02 heh 21:55:05 i have 21:55:16 do you have an up-dot? 21:55:16 incidentally, KajirBot will make EgoBot and bsmnt_bot and all of those unneccessary :) 21:55:18 i don't 21:55:26 why? 21:55:34 because it pwnd? 21:55:36 *pwns 21:56:00 it will do everything from evaluating python code, to running various esolangs, to searching google, to having a useless but fun pseudo-AI to respond to stuff 21:56:01 like 21:56:07 .xyzzy Hello! 21:56:17 some markov chain stuff or something relating to hello 21:56:50 sounds hot 21:57:25 yes. 21:57:34 it'll be like the lambdabot of the esoteric world 21:57:39 except it'll have non-esoteric stuff too 21:57:47 it'll have a quote system of course 21:57:51 and maybe a notes system 21:59:27 do you see how every other bot shall be obsolete? ;) 22:01:06 no 22:01:18 bots aren't here for their use 22:01:25 they are here because we love them 22:01:33 oh yes 22:01:37 KajirBot will be lovable 22:01:45 you can .feed kajirbot and he will thank you 22:01:52 he will thank you even more if you .feed him a food he likes 22:01:56 so cute i'm almost crying :) 22:02:01 \o/ 22:02:09 i'll be feeding him till excess flood 22:02:23 executing python code isn't so great in a bot 22:02:34 whitespace sensitive etc 22:02:40 scheme would be better 22:02:47 bsmntbombdood: *cough*~exec 22:02:52 i kno 22:02:53 w 22:02:54 i agree, though 22:03:01 .eval will be not used much 22:03:11 i will include, maybe, an s-exp syntax for python 22:03:35 (if expr x y) translates to if expr: x else: y but with indentation and tabs and stuff 22:03:40 like 22:04:01 (re.match r"(?P\d+)\.(\d*)" "3.14") 22:04:04 python with sexps! 22:04:14 if you do that, you have to include a macro system 22:04:26 (= matches re.match r"(?P\d+)\.(\d*)" "3.14") (if matches (stuff) (stuff)) 22:04:31 python doesn't have macros though 22:04:40 i mean, the above can be translated very very simply to python 22:04:41 err, make it 22:04:42 you would write it... 22:04:53 (= matches (re.match r"(?P\d+)\.(\d*)" "3.14")) (if matches (stuff) (stuff)) 22:04:54 would be 22:05:19 matches = re.match(r"(?P\d+)\.(\d*)", "3.14")\nif matches:\n\tstuff\nelse:\n\tstuff 22:05:30 see, directly translatable 22:05:51 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:05:58 * ehird` tests callbacks in kajirbot 22:06:03 kajirc is very elegant :) 22:06:19 it is very much like bsmnt_bot's core 22:10:45 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:11:12 great 22:11:14 callbacks work 22:11:15 [already!] 22:11:36 * ehird` makes them threaded 22:11:43 bsmntbombdood: do you think one thread per callback is good? 22:11:44 i don't 22:11:47 i think one thread per line 22:11:52 so you can handle multiple lines at a time 22:11:56 but callbacks for a line are in sequence 22:11:57 ? 22:12:03 for threads with callbacks 22:12:28 ?? 22:12:42 what 22:12:42 WHAT 22:12:46 ???? 22:12:48 what do you mean 22:13:13 ???????? 22:13:22 each time you talk you double my confusedness 22:13:44 a 22:13:45 a 22:13:45 a 22:13:45 a 22:13:46 a 22:16:33 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:16:41 Kajir is a nice name 22:16:44 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:16:53 a 22:16:56 darnit 22:18:18 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:18:29 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:19:25 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:19:31 ok, echo test time 22:19:35 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:19:40 a 22:19:56 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:20:06 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:20:54 a 22:20:54 somebody saida 22:20:57 b 22:20:58 somebody saidb 22:21:02 KajirBot yay. 22:21:02 somebody saidKajirBot yay. 22:21:04 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:22:28 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:24:40 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:24:50 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:24:58 test 22:24:58 test? 22:25:00 yes, test 22:25:00 yes, test? 22:25:04 do you not understand me? 22:25:04 do you not understand me?? 22:25:07 helpful 22:25:08 helpful? 22:25:18 he's now at bsmntbombdood AI level 22:25:18 he's now at bsmntbombdood AI level? 22:25:19 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:39:22 here goes 22:39:28 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:39:30 .feed 22:39:33 damnit, error 22:39:35 :<< 22:39:44 but soon he will be thanking people for feeding him 22:40:41 i know, i'm eagerly waiting 22:41:30 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:41:41 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:41:42 .feed 22:41:45 darnit 22:41:48 heh 22:41:56 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:42:06 ^:([^!]+)!n=([^@]+)@([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :(.feed)$ 22:42:18 one, two, three, FOUR groups 22:42:22 now let's see what's wrong 22:42:23 oh 22:42:24 where's the args 22:42:36 -!- ololobot has joined. 22:43:15 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:43:29 .feed 22:43:34 adasdasdasd 22:43:44 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:43:48 it should work now 22:43:52 >>> feed 22:43:52 ...uuh, feed my need with thy seed... 22:43:54 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:43:57 .feed 22:44:03 whutttttttt 22:44:04 oh 22:44:05 right 22:44:17 >>> feed 22:44:18 ...uuh, feed my need with thy seed... 22:44:22 .feed tasty stuff 22:44:22 test, fed tasty stuff 22:44:24 gege 22:44:56 oh 22:45:04 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:45:17 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:45:31 oklopol, how did that bot of yours run b00tstrap_? 22:45:31 .feed 22:45:32 test, fed ... something 22:45:38 :D 22:45:43 KajirBot works and stuff! 22:45:50 :) 22:45:50 zomg 22:45:55 hey, how often are lines starting with . used in this channel? 22:45:57 not often at all? 22:46:10 i might make .unknown give a helpful "hey, i'm not broken but WTF is that command" message 22:46:28 there's more of those than there are lines starting with .~!!#@foo$$ 22:46:31 doubleplop: bs 22:46:38 make that your command prefix string 22:46:42 bsmntbombdood: no :p 22:46:58 >>> feed penis 22:46:58 i was fed penis and i kinda liked it 22:47:07 >>> feed my brother 22:47:07 i was fed my brother and i kinda liked it 22:47:11 >>> feed pizza 22:47:12 i was fed pizza and i kinda liked it 22:47:16 doesn't he like ANYTHING lots? 22:47:26 wait... 22:47:29 >>> feed SimonRC 22:47:29 i was fed SimonRC and i kinda liked it 22:48:52 >>> feed SimonRC 22:48:52 i was fed SimonRC and i kinda liked it 22:48:55 hmm 22:49:30 >>> feed SimonRC 22:49:46 >>> feed SimonRC 22:49:46 i was fed SimonRC and i kinda liked it 22:49:49 ... 22:50:03 >>> feed SimonRC 22:50:04 i was fed SimonRC and i orgasmed twice 22:50:11 >>> feed pizza 22:50:11 i was fed pizza and i kinda liked it 22:50:15 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:50:26 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:50:29 .feed 22:50:29 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 22:50:34 .feed chocolate 22:50:34 that's the extent of that command 22:50:34 thank you :) 22:50:36 .feed 22:50:37 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 22:50:38 .feed 22:50:38 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 22:50:39 .feed 22:50:39 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 22:50:40 .feed 22:50:40 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:50:46 .feed botfood 22:50:46 thank you :) 22:50:52 .feed pizza 22:50:53 thank you :) 22:50:55 oh 22:51:02 i assumed you'd done state 22:51:06 ? 22:51:07 but NO 22:51:08 like how? 22:51:11 .feed penis 22:51:12 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:51:18 i mean 22:51:26 that it actually wants exactly what it asks for 22:51:31 ah 22:51:35 that would be cool 22:51:39 like, first it tries a random one 22:51:43 then it asks for it until it gets it? 22:55:15 yeahyeah 22:55:20 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:55:31 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:55:48 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:55:50 ok 22:55:51 try now: 22:55:53 (loading again) 22:55:58 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:56:02 .feed 22:56:04 err 22:56:18 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:22 let's try that again 22:56:28 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:56:38 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:42 right got it: 22:56:48 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:56:48 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:52 once more :p 22:56:58 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:57:03 .feed 22:57:07 oh 22:57:11 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:57:15 fixed... finally 22:57:21 -!- KajirBot has joined. 22:57:22 .feed 22:57:22 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:57:24 .feed 22:57:25 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:57:26 .feed 22:57:26 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:57:28 .feed chocolate 22:57:28 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:57:32 .feed asdadasdklasdj 22:57:33 sorry, i haven't eaten asdadasdklasdj before. have you got botfood? 22:57:36 .feed botfood 22:57:36 thank you :) 22:57:38 .feed 22:57:38 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 22:57:46 .feed botfood 22:57:47 thank you :) 22:57:48 .feed 22:57:49 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 22:57:50 wait, what 22:57:52 oh 22:57:54 see? :) 22:58:03 state-filled feeding! 22:58:13 right now his food list is just pizza,chocolate,botfood 22:58:18 gimme random stuff to add :p 22:59:06 self 22:59:13 tomato 22:59:18 glass 22:59:26 self? glass? you are odd :p 22:59:42 lambda 22:59:43 sheep 22:59:44 also, it has to fit into a "but have you got X" construction 22:59:52 indeed 23:00:19 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:00:23 updated the list a bit 23:00:30 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:00:33 .feed 23:00:33 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 23:00:35 .feed botfood 23:00:35 thank you :) 23:00:36 .feed 23:00:36 thanks :) but have you got sushi? 23:00:38 .feed sushi 23:00:39 thank you :) 23:00:39 .feed 23:00:39 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 23:00:41 .feed chocolate 23:00:42 thank you :) 23:00:42 .feed 23:00:42 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 23:00:44 .feed pizza 23:00:45 thank you :) 23:00:45 .feed 23:00:46 thanks :) but have you got chicken? 23:00:47 omg that's like the greatest game of all times :O 23:00:48 .feed chicken 23:00:48 thank you :) 23:00:49 .feed 23:00:49 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 23:00:52 .feed chocolate 23:00:53 thank you :) 23:00:53 .feed 23:00:53 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 23:00:56 .feed chocolate 23:00:56 thank you :) 23:01:00 he should level up :p 23:01:01 .feed 23:01:01 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 23:01:04 .feed 23:01:04 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 23:01:05 .feed pizza 23:01:05 thank you :) 23:01:06 .feed 23:01:06 thanks :) but have you got sushi? 23:01:08 .feed 23:01:09 thanks :) but have you got sushi? 23:01:11 .feed sushi 23:01:11 thank you :) 23:01:15 now, how to actually make it a game: it likes those who've fed it the most 23:01:15 damnit, get another request 23:01:16 .feed 23:01:16 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 23:01:19 .feed pizza 23:01:20 thank you :) 23:01:20 .feed 23:01:21 thanks :) but have you got binary bytes? 23:01:23 also, great way to get ops pissed. 23:01:23 yay 23:01:28 .feed binary bytes 23:01:28 thank you :) 23:01:33 so there are its eating habits 23:01:55 oklokok: where should this likability display itself? 23:02:18 it could do actions like /me rubs itself against X 23:02:21 or something less weird. 23:02:29 or, just plain points 23:02:42 you'd get kinkier stuff for more points ;) 23:02:47 heh 23:02:50 but what commands? 23:02:54 meh 23:03:07 what... commands? 23:03:07 maybe, if enough people feed it without giving it the food it wants 23:03:12 it goes grumpy for a few minutes? 23:03:19 and goes ":(" before executing anything? 23:03:31 let's just leave it 23:03:31 :p 23:03:33 it could just stop responding if it's not hungry 23:03:40 no that could be really annoying 23:03:40 :/ 23:03:52 ok, so i have .feed 23:03:55 what should i do next 23:04:21 how about the .question 23:04:25 .question x 23:04:28 repeats x as a question 23:04:31 kinda like a stupid ai 23:06:16 .question X, where X is a number 23:06:26 questions next X 23:06:40 so it'll even look a bit like AI 23:07:22 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:07:56 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:08:00 .q how are you 23:08:17 um 23:08:17 .q 23:08:20 .q ho 23:08:32 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:08:40 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 23:08:41 ^:([^!]+)!n=([^@]+)@([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :(.q (.+))$ 23:08:47 stupid thing 23:08:55 >>> q oko 23:08:55 oko? 23:09:05 stop ripping off KajirBot :( 23:09:07 they'll fight 23:09:08 :<< 23:09:09 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:09:09 :P 23:09:10 sorry 23:09:14 .q hello 23:09:19 >>> q ello 23:09:19 ello? 23:09:23 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:09:27 i'm being mean 23:09:27 >>> q how are you 23:09:27 how are you? 23:09:31 hah 23:09:33 mine is better 23:09:33 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:09:36 oh? 23:09:37 .q hello 23:09:37 darn 23:09:43 gah 23:09:51 are <-> am, you <-> i? 23:10:33 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:10:40 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 23:10:46 i guess it'd be too much if i did that before you could ;) 23:10:52 yeah i did that 23:11:54 ok 23:11:55 restrating 23:12:02 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:12:04 .q hello 23:12:06 okay, you've got one try before i make it :) 23:12:08 god damnit 23:12:10 :( 23:12:12 wait 23:12:18 oh i see 23:12:19 okay 23:12:20 just a sec 23:12:21 okily 23:12:35 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:12:41 i had 23:12:42 'i' 23:12:46 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:12:46 instead of re.I or re.IGNORECASE 23:12:50 .q hello 23:12:54 TypeError: sub() takes at least 3 arguments (2 given) 23:12:55 sigh 23:12:55 sorry 23:12:58 just have to add ,q 23:13:02 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:13:12 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:13:13 .q hello 23:13:13 hell? 23:13:16 haha 23:13:24 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:13:26 fixed that 23:13:34 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:13:40 .q hello 23:13:41 hell$1? 23:13:44 HAHAHAHA 23:14:07 fixed 23:14:08 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:14:11 i swear 23:14:13 this time it will work :/ 23:14:18 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:14:19 .q hello 23:14:20 hello? 23:14:23 .q how are you? 23:14:23 how are you? 23:14:25 ... 23:14:26 WHAT 23:14:35 wait 23:14:42 shouldn't (^| ) work fine? 23:15:16 >>> q who are you 23:15:20 oh 23:15:28 i fael 23:15:36 hey 23:15:38 you said - :( 23:15:41 i only have RE errors 23:15:42 >>> q who are you 23:15:42 who am youuliuliuli? 23:15:46 :P 23:16:00 :( 23:16:04 (long story) 23:16:25 i don't know how to regex-replace in python 23:16:31 so... doing stuff 23:17:29 >>> q who are you 23:17:29 who am me? 23:17:32 oh 23:17:33 haha 23:17:39 >>> q who are you 23:17:39 who am I? 23:18:10 >>> q who am I? 23:18:10 who are I?? 23:18:15 hmph 23:18:17 >>> q who am I 23:18:17 who are you? 23:18:45 boring 23:18:46 i'm doing the replace in a roundabout way 23:18:47 HEY!! 23:18:49 :( 23:18:54 you said you wouldn't copy KajirBot 23:18:54 so it suxxors a bit 23:19:07 ehird`: yes, after q! 23:19:10 *q! 23:19:19 no you didn't say that :/ 23:19:34 bsmntbombdood: no 23:19:41 yes 23:19:46 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:19:51 how cum? 23:19:56 oklokok: get rid of q please it's just a dup of .q 23:19:56 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:19:57 :/ 23:19:58 .q hello 23:20:01 wtf 23:20:18 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:20:19 q am i bored? 23:20:23 >>> q am i bored? 23:20:27 you'll need to wait a second bsmntbombdood 23:20:28 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:20:29 >>> q penis 23:20:30 and it's .q not q 23:20:32 .q hello 23:20:34 WTF 23:20:37 removed. 23:21:10 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:21:13 ok 23:21:15 if it doesn't work now 23:21:18 then i am annoyed. 23:21:20 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:21:21 .q hello 23:21:21 hello? 23:21:25 .q how are you? 23:21:26 cewl 23:21:28 NOOOO 23:21:29 damnit 23:21:50 hmm 23:22:21 hmm 23:22:25 ok i think i've got it 23:23:08 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:23:17 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:23:21 .q hello 23:23:21 hello? 23:23:24 .q how are you? 23:23:24 how are you? 23:23:26 ... 23:23:27 what 23:23:27 WHAT 23:23:30 oh 23:23:37 hm 23:23:38 wait 23:23:38 what 23:23:38 WHAT 23:23:43 ... is that automatic, clp 23:23:44 .q does your parser suck 23:23:45 does your parser suck? 23:23:51 .q no, but the replacements do... 23:23:51 no, but the replacements do...? 23:23:54 .q i don't know why 23:23:55 you don't know why? 23:23:57 oh 23:23:59 it does you/I 23:24:09 .q what are you 23:24:09 what are you? 23:24:18 return re.sub(re.compile(r' %s ' % word, re.I), 23:24:18 r' %s ' % replacement, ' %s ' % q)[1:-1] 23:24:21 is the code to replace a word 23:24:26 so that should be 23:24:30 is replace two-way? 23:24:36 oklokok: i manually make it two-way 23:24:38 like i add 23:24:41 are -> am then am -> are 23:24:43 wait... 23:24:46 that's circular... 23:24:46 eh 23:24:48 gah 23:24:48 yes 23:24:56 this is why i had trouble making it 23:25:00 ok that's simple 23:25:03 you just have to replace it with a tmp value 23:25:07 like ""@"@"£@£)@I£_)@I£_)@£ or something 23:25:14 i can show you my pythons... 23:25:18 it does exacty that 23:25:55 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p115141533.txt 23:26:10 that's not a good way to do it, but i had to make it in < 40 sec, so... 23:26:36 i guess it took more like a minute, but anyway, didn't really have time to think :P 23:28:11 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:28:21 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:28:23 .q hello 23:28:31 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:28:42 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:28:42 .q hello 23:28:45 grrrrr... 23:28:52 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:29:07 does KajirBot respond to sender, or to this chan? 23:29:09 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:29:10 .q hello 23:29:11 hello? 23:29:15 .q how are you? 23:29:15 i guess i could check myselg 23:29:15 how am you? 23:29:18 *myself 23:29:18 how am you 23:29:19 heheheh 23:29:32 .q how am you? 23:29:32 how are you? 23:29:36 .q how I? 23:29:36 how I? 23:29:39 .q how you? 23:29:39 how you? 23:29:48 what the frick 23:29:58 .q how you 23:29:58 how I? 23:30:01 .q how I 23:30:01 how you? 23:30:02 gawd 23:30:29 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:30:30 how do you try getting around the circularity? 23:30:37 oklokok: same way as you 23:30:39 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:30:42 i will improve it later 23:30:43 .q hello 23:30:43 hello? 23:30:46 .q how are you? 23:30:46 how am I? 23:30:50 .q how am I? 23:30:50 how are you? 23:31:03 .q How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a wouldchuck could chuck wood? 23:31:03 How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a wouldchuck could chuck wood? 23:31:09 .q what is pi? 23:31:09 what is pi? 23:31:16 .q do you know what pi to 10 decimal places? 23:31:16 do I know what pi to 10 decimal places? 23:31:23 .q you___ 23:31:23 you___? 23:31:31 .q I___ 23:31:31 I? 23:31:48 .q roses are dead, violets are blue, all my base, are belong to you 23:31:49 roses am dead, violets am blue, all my base, am belong to I? 23:31:54 am belong to I! 23:31:58 heh, ok, q works 23:32:56 .q you 23:33:02 what 23:33:02 WHAT 23:33:02 ..? 23:33:07 you broke it 23:33:08 .q you 23:33:09 I? 23:33:11 oh 23:33:13 .you 23:33:14 it just doesn't like you 23:33:15 .you 23:33:16 .q you 23:33:16 I? 23:33:17 oh 23:33:18 i see 23:33:20 try again 23:33:23 ".q you" 23:33:24 copypaste 23:33:26 .q you sdf 23:33:31 .q you 23:33:32 .q you sdf 23:33:32 I sdf? 23:33:38 what the f- 23:33:46 OH 23:33:50 it matches n=blah as ident 23:34:00 wait 23:34:03 i'll implement .help 23:34:04 and then fix that 23:34:17 >>> help 23:34:17 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed 23:34:20 omg 23:34:23 i have that :D 23:34:33 blahbot had it 23:34:35 so nyah 23:34:45 i'm just surprised 23:35:28 >>> help 23:35:28 lol, this, is, teh, all, helpz, you, gonna, get, :, bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed 23:35:43 that's.... pretty 23:37:32 >>> help 23:37:32 These are all the cmds currently in ololobot: 23:37:32 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed 23:39:10 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:39:21 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:39:22 .help 23:39:23 f, q, h 23:39:26 lawl 23:40:08 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:40:18 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:40:19 .help 23:40:19 feed, q, help 23:40:23 .help help 23:40:23 help [command] 23:40:23 Displays help on commands. 23:40:27 .help q 23:40:27 q text 23:40:27 Asks text as an argument? 23:40:31 .help feed 23:40:31 feed [food] 23:40:31 Feeds KajirBot. 23:40:43 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:40:47 sorting the command list. 23:40:53 ok 23:40:53 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:40:57 so i have two fun commands 23:40:58 .help 23:41:00 and nothing useful 23:41:12 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:41:22 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:41:24 .q what should I add next? 23:41:24 what should you add next? 23:41:32 .q I don't know! What SHOULD I ask next? 23:41:32 you don't know! What SHOULD you ask next? 23:41:38 .q you are helpful 23:41:38 I am helpful? 23:42:26 >>> bs 33<11<=!Hello> world>: 23:42:26 Hello, world! 23:43:11 make an el interpreter, there can never be enough debug flood on a channel 23:43:19 eso lang 23:43:20 el? emacslisp? 23:43:29 eso lang 23:43:29 eso lang 23:43:33 laso eng 23:43:51 ah 23:43:57 i want something more useful :/ 23:44:05 i mean, what did blahbot have? 23:44:06 use... ful... 23:44:07 someone check their logs 23:44:30 you could make it gogulate 23:44:41 what 23:44:41 WHAT 23:44:46 you know, ggl 23:44:47 clp: TURN THAT FUCKING SCRIPT OFF 23:45:01 c|p: love your script, keep it :) 23:46:11 no 23:46:13 it is very annoying 23:46:17 and flooding 23:46:19 what is a what 23:46:25 what 23:46:25 WHAT 23:47:00 what 23:47:00 WHAT 23:47:56 WHAT 23:47:58 hah 23:48:00 voiled 23:48:02 *foiled 23:48:10 nothing annoys me, and i enjoy a good flood, so i see where our opinions split 23:48:15 .q Are you a woodchuck who would chuck as much wood as you could, could you chuck wood? 23:48:15 am I a woodchuck who would chuck as much wood as I could, could I chuck wood? 23:48:20 -!- Svenstaro has left (?). 23:48:52 .help 23:48:55 ... 23:48:56 .help 23:49:05 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:49:55 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:50:05 FUN FACTS: kajirbot is 74 lines long. kajirc is 113 lines long. 23:50:10 .help 23:50:10 feed, help, q 23:50:13 .help feed 23:50:13 feed [food] 23:50:13 Feeds KajirBot. 23:50:16 .feed 23:50:16 thanks :) but have you got botfood? 23:50:19 .feed botfood 23:50:19 thank you :) 23:50:22 .help 23:50:22 feed, help, q 23:50:24 .help help 23:50:24 help [command] 23:50:24 Displays help on commands. 23:50:27 .help q 23:50:27 q text 23:50:27 Asks text as an argument? 23:50:31 good 23:50:34 .q .help 23:50:34 .help? 23:51:06 Hmm 23:51:14 Should I make info['channel'] the sending user on PMs? 23:51:21 right now it tries and responds to itself 23:52:06 o 23:53:31 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:53:42 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:54:02 OK as soon as i register kajirbot... 23:54:04 PMs! 23:54:42 yay \o/ 23:54:49 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:54:56 -!- ehird` has changed nick to KajirBot. 23:55:06 -!- KajirBot has changed nick to ehird`. 23:55:22 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:57:13 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:57:33 -!- KajirBot has joined. 23:58:01 ok 23:58:05 kajirbot responds to pms 23:58:27 :) 23:58:32 \o/ 23:58:41 does ololobot? 23:58:41 hmm 23:58:50 try KajirBot's pm! 23:58:52 i haven't identified 23:59:06 oh 23:59:08 identify! 2007-08-19: 00:00:28 :p 00:00:44 hmm... how do i see whether someone is identified again? 00:00:50 it'll say that in the whois i guess 00:00:57 yes 00:02:52 ok 00:02:53 .ps now 00:03:28 .ps 00:04:53 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:04:58 didn't write it yet :p 00:04:58 now i have 00:05:03 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:05:05 .ps 00:05:05 0. 00:05:09 .ps 00:05:10 0. 00:05:11 .ps 00:05:11 0. 00:05:11 .ps 00:05:12 0. 00:05:15 .ps 00:05:15 .ps 00:05:15 0. 00:05:15 0. 00:05:24 bit of a lame name 00:05:24 :p 00:06:09 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:06:19 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:06:21 .ps 00:06:21 0. 00:06:46 .feed 00:06:46 .ps 00:06:47 thanks :) but have you got chicken? 00:06:47 0. 00:06:47 1. 00:06:50 .ps 00:06:50 0. 00:06:56 .ps 00:06:57 .ps 00:06:57 0. 00:06:57 .ps 00:06:57 0. 00:06:57 0. 00:06:59 ok. 00:07:12 should i keep the display? 00:07:18 or just make it name and maybe name (status)? 00:07:46 you could have the cmd there or smth 00:08:16 it is 00:08:19 but anyway 00:08:19 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:08:22 (stopped) or (dead)? 00:08:23 oh 00:08:30 well, you know, i'm a blind idiot. 00:08:32 (stopped) or (dead)? 00:08:40 i think stopped 00:08:47 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:08:53 started-stopped, born-dead 00:08:57 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:08:58 .ps 00:08:59 0. ps (stopped) 00:09:01 .ps 00:09:01 0. ps (stopped) 00:09:04 .feed 00:09:05 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 00:09:05 .ps 00:09:05 0. ps (stopped) 00:09:31 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:09:40 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:09:49 .feed 00:09:49 .ps 00:09:49 thanks :) but have you got chocolate? 00:09:50 0. feed (stopped) 00:09:50 1. ps (stopped) 00:09:52 hm 00:10:02 ... oh 00:10:16 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:10:23 i was unconditionally adding (stopped) :P 00:10:26 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:10:48 .feed 00:10:48 thanks :) but have you got chicken? 00:10:48 .ps 00:10:48 0. ps 00:10:51 .ps 00:10:52 0. ps 00:10:54 okay 00:16:44 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:16:51 kill now :) 00:17:26 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:17:39 .ps 00:17:39 0. ps 00:17:48 .kill 0 00:17:49 .ps 00:17:50 0. ps 00:17:51 .ps 00:17:52 0. ps 00:17:53 aw great 00:18:09 .lol 00:18:34 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:18:44 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:18:53 .help 00:18:54 feed, help, kill, ps, q 00:19:00 .feed 00:19:01 thanks :) but have you got pizza? 00:19:04 .feed pizza 00:19:05 thank you :) 00:19:07 .ps 00:19:07 0. ps 00:19:08 .kill 0 00:19:34 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:19:43 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:19:49 .ps 00:19:50 0. ps 00:19:51 .kill 0 00:20:24 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:20:34 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:20:36 .ps 00:20:36 0. Thread-2 (stopped) 00:20:36 1. Thread-4 (stopped) 00:20:36 2. Thread-6 (stopped) 00:20:36 -!- KajirBot has quit (Excess Flood). 00:20:41 What- 00:21:02 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:21:20 .ps 00:21:21 0. Thread-2 (stopped) 00:21:21 1. Thread-4 (stopped) 00:21:21 2. Thread-6 (stopped) 00:21:21 3. Thread-8 (stopped) 00:21:21 4. Thread-10 (stopped) 00:21:21 -!- KajirBot has quit (Excess Flood). 00:21:23 WHAT. 00:21:30 OH. 00:21:58 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:22:00 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:22:10 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:22:43 .kill 0 00:22:55 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:22:58 i shall continue tomorrow 00:22:59 bye 00:23:18 bye 00:24:38 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:41:25 -!- mudge has joined. 00:41:41 hello 00:42:16 Sal'. 00:43:00 coi 00:43:34 hi people 00:43:45 what's your esoteric programming language? 00:44:39 the very question is faulty. 00:45:50 oh boy, why's that? 00:45:59 are we getting esoteric here? 00:46:09 was it targeted to all userlist? 00:46:36 yea 00:46:53 actually, the answer to your question would be nil, there is not esolang we've made collaboratively 00:46:55 but I think you're the only one listening so it is targeted specifically to you, 00:47:05 i've made a lot of langs 00:47:06 ok 00:47:11 wow 00:47:13 that's cool 00:47:19 so you know how to write compilers? 00:47:27 i've written interpreters. 00:47:33 >>> numbda "lol" 00:47:34 lol 00:47:34 rad 00:47:50 what programming languages do you know? 00:47:55 me? 00:47:59 yea 00:48:00 lot 00:48:03 well 00:48:03 i'm talking to you 00:48:08 what's "knowing"? 00:48:33 i know the names of about a hundred, i guess, i can program in about 15 with google, with about 5 without it 00:48:35 well, i guess are familiar with, have at least done some programming in, and is familiar with the syntax and some sematics 00:48:59 semantics* 00:49:00 i *can* program in many languages i've never programmed in :) 00:49:08 cool 00:49:19 have you programmed in Haskell? 00:49:20 i actually knew scheme quite well before dling an interpreter 00:49:24 yeah 00:49:24 a bit 00:49:29 i made a thue interpreter 00:49:40 i can't make hello world, though 00:49:46 ok 00:49:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:49:53 do you have a website or blog? 00:49:56 hi sgeo 00:50:14 Hi mudge, hi all 00:50:34 emm 00:50:36 what do you do Sgeo? 00:50:43 www.vjn.fi/oklopol may be somewhat of a webpage 00:50:49 hm? 00:50:56 that has pretty random content 00:51:09 but it has the thue interpreter, actually 00:51:25 cool 00:51:30 yea, Sgeo 00:51:32 what do you do? 00:51:42 for like a living or hobby or whatever 00:51:43 that's the only program i've written in haskell, so it's not that pretty semantically, i assume :) 00:51:48 hope you don't know haskell 00:51:59 yeah, Sgeo, tell yoursell 00:52:00 why? 00:52:02 *yourself 00:52:06 I'm learning haskell 00:52:12 mudge: because i'm sure that sucks. 00:52:15 i mean 00:52:18 my program :) 00:52:38 haha 00:53:07 as long as it is not your main programming language you know really well and have been programming in continuously for years, it's OKAY 00:53:27 today I wrote a little tutorial that explains currying in haskell 00:55:15 what is sadol 00:55:20 you there oklokok 00:56:02 anyone here? 00:56:06 Course not. 00:56:24 yea, I thought not 00:56:30 what do you do pikhq 00:56:52 I code in Tcl, Brainfuck, C, C++, and design esoteric languages for fun. 00:56:53 o 00:56:58 sa 00:56:58 dol 00:57:05 !sadol 00:57:08 !help 00:57:10 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 00:57:12 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 00:57:22 what is Brainfuck? 00:57:23 sadol is !sadol 00:57:29 brainfuck is !bf 00:57:32 oklokok: This channel *has* made its own esoteric language. . . 00:57:45 !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.+..-. 00:57:48 ABBA 00:57:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory 00:58:18 * Sgeo contributed to that >.> 00:58:46 cool 01:00:41 i didn't know about that, then again i haven't been here for that long 01:00:42 anyone want to give me some feedback on a really short tutorial I wrote about currying in Haskell? 01:00:49 for a week, maybe, or a year 01:00:52 http://www.nickmudge.info/?post=42 01:00:53 don't remember 01:04:07 you guys ever do any web programming? 01:05:35 Sgeo: So did I. :) 01:06:52 mudge: hard to tell you if that explains currying to someone who doesn't know the concept already, since i did 01:07:02 but it seems pretty clear 01:08:09 okay, thanks for taking a look at it 01:08:42 i read pretty much anything people paste here :) 01:09:01 I could *express* it. . . /x./y.x 01:09:05 ;p 01:09:32 >>> pl ^y^x``+ y x 01:09:32 ``s``s`ks``s``s`ks``s`kk`k+``s`kk`k ``s`kk`ky 01:09:47 ...that's one crappy pointlessicator. 01:09:53 oh 01:10:02 >>> pl ^y^x``+$y$x 01:10:02 ``s``s`ks``s``s`ks``s`kk`k+``s`kki`ki 01:11:04 i can express it: add x = \y -> x + y 01:11:44 nice meeting you you oklokok and pikhq 01:11:46 I got to go 01:11:49 talk to you later 01:12:12 bye 01:12:42 >>> numbda add={y->{x->x+y}} 01:12:42 id:add(0) 01:12:49 >>> numbda add={y->{x->x+y}};add!1!3 01:12:50 num:4 01:12:59 * oklokok expresses! 01:13:14 (someday i'll make numbda a scoping xD) 01:13:25 (umm.. working scoping) 01:15:12 >>> numbda add={y->{x->x+y}};add!1 01:15:12 lazy:[apply opr:-> to id:x(2) and [apply opr:+ to id:x(2) and id:y(1)]] 01:19:09 lol 01:19:17 i guess my script got triggered a few times 01:19:18 ;d 01:19:50 what 01:19:50 WHAT 01:19:57 what? 01:20:24 that 01:21:11 make it what?->WHAT? rather 01:21:20 more useful that way. 01:21:22 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 01:27:05 -!- mudge has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:02:53 -!- Figs has joined. 02:07:05 >>> numbda a+b 02:07:06 error:no-such-variable:a(-1) 02:07:17 >>> numbda a=1;a=a+1;a 02:07:18 error:no-such-variable:a(1) 02:07:22 lul 02:07:27 >>> numbda a=a+1;a=1;a 02:07:28 num:1 02:07:31 :\ 02:07:34 i... see 02:08:43 hi oklokok 02:09:08 hi Figs 02:09:30 waking up? 02:09:32 * Figs mumbles something about a song... 02:09:33 no 02:09:37 it's 6 pm here :P 02:09:39 oh 02:09:44 i'm going to sleep soon 02:10:15 :P 02:10:16 i don't really have any free time for about a month... 02:10:28 this is all theory, of course, i've been idling for the last 4 hours. 02:10:45 but there's no free time i can afford. 02:11:11 gotta read some 12 books and do a lot of exercises 02:12:52 i haven't even really been ircing for a few hours, just staring at the screen 02:13:40 >>> numbda a={a->a!4};a!{a->a+1} 02:13:41 num:5 02:13:59 cool 02:14:47 you'd think it'd break down at that 02:14:52 i mean... i'd think 02:15:44 :P 02:16:00 just say you ain't gonna do it, and I'll stop bugging you about it ^_^ 02:16:28 otherwise I'll keep bugging you ^_^ 02:16:37 i'd have to admit it to myself before i'd have any chance at admitting it to you. 02:16:47 lol 02:16:49 i don't see any chance of that happening 02:16:49 ok 02:16:52 I'll keep bugging you then 02:17:16 please do, i might actually remember it if constantly reminded 02:17:25 :P 02:17:38 so have you played it yet? :D 02:17:47 * Figs reminds you again ... just for the humor 02:17:58 anyway, what's up? 02:18:04 chillin'. 02:18:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:18:11 ah 02:18:14 i have a course where i have to read 8 books 02:18:28 I have like 80 million projects 02:18:28 read one yesterday and one the day before that 02:18:36 still 6 to go 02:18:48 well, you're making progress :D 02:18:51 heh 02:18:52 yeah 02:18:59 I have no idea how to finish building these things 02:19:08 i didn't read much today, 43 pages of swedish grammar 02:19:16 i'll have to catch up tomorrow 02:19:33 (or today actually, since it's 4:17) 02:21:03 goodnight everyone 02:21:11 hi RodgerTheGreat 02:21:14 i shouldn't've remembered numbda, now i can't do anything tomorrow without fixing it first :< 02:21:18 bye rodgy 02:21:19 or is that Goodbye? 02:21:30 usually it is 02:21:38 we should all use lojban. 02:21:44 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 02:21:48 and avoid the confusion 02:21:58 :p 02:22:05 ESPERANTO! 02:22:28 i don't know esperanto, but i don't think it's as good as lojban 02:22:53 Bonan nokton! 02:22:54 lojban isn't built by making natural languages regular 02:23:01 it's built from scratch 02:23:05 (i think :)) 02:23:08 Kiel vi (fartas)? 02:23:19 kiel? 02:23:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto 02:23:23 "kiel"? 02:25:12 http://vjn.fi/s/$anasto.txt 02:25:22 wish volimo would make a tutorial soon 02:25:44 ? 02:25:55 a conlang by a friend of mine 02:25:58 zx3 02:26:07 owns esperanto by a long shot 02:26:48 (i have no idea if that's true, but you gotta praise stuff ppl you know have done) 02:27:03 you see the guide to making conlangs? 02:27:07 hmm no 02:27:15 lemme see if I can find it again... 02:27:44 >>> numbda 5**2 02:27:44 num:25 02:28:06 http://www.zompist.com/kit.html 02:29:52 cool 02:29:58 more stuff for me to read 02:30:01 :D 02:30:04 I found this years ago 02:30:07 apparently it's still up 02:30:14 i'm pretty sure i've seen it before 02:30:16 "The Language Construction Kit is 1996 by Mark Rosenfelder." 02:30:18 but i haven't read it 02:30:21 gives you an idea... 02:30:33 I'm trying to say, I doubt it'll go anywhere ;) 02:30:44 luckily conlang creation doesn't get old :) 02:30:50 seeing as it's been around for 11 years 02:30:50 i mean, the techniques 02:30:57 mhmm 02:31:16 mhmhm 02:31:53 i actually had an idea for a conlang of my own just todea 02:31:55 *today 02:33:15 actually it was an idea for how to start making one :) 02:33:36 which isn't really that interesting, so forget that 02:33:42 >>> numbda 4+4+4+4+4 02:33:42 num:20 02:33:50 god i like doing meaningless stuff with that 02:33:59 >>> numbda 4+"5" 02:33:59 num:9 02:34:07 >>> numbda "4"+5 02:34:07 45 02:34:22 oklotalk-style type convention 02:34:42 well, actually in numbda it's not just a convention, but integrated in the language 02:34:50 but that's another story 02:35:03 >>> numbda 4//4 02:35:18 >>> numbda "44" + 2 02:35:18 442 02:35:19 like... integer division? 02:35:36 AfB has the type of A 02:35:38 just wanted to see what your bot would do on random input 02:35:40 always 02:36:01 it does errors, usually 02:36:07 don't know why that didn't output one 02:36:14 >>> numbda 4/ 02:36:17 >>> numbda 4/4 02:36:17 num:1 02:36:19 >>> numbda /4 02:36:20 opr:/ 02:36:25 interesting 02:36:29 >>> numbda sdf 02:36:29 error:no-such-variable:sdf(-1) 02:36:33 >>> numbda ///// 02:36:34 opr:/ 02:36:40 >>> numbda 4 4 02:36:41 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:36:46 >>> numbda ( 02:36:46 error:syntax:operator-should-not-end-expression 02:37:07 >>> numbda (4 4) 02:37:07 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:37:13 >>> numbda 5+(4 4) 02:37:13 num:5 02:37:44 how many languages do you know where a parsing error doesn't prevent evaluation? 02:38:16 BF? 02:38:23 >>> numbda 5+(i guess this could be a comment or smth)+4 02:38:24 num:9 02:38:36 >>> bf ~++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 02:38:36 ( 02:38:44 in BF, non-bf characters aren't exactly errors. 02:38:49 they are allowed by the spec 02:38:58 ... 02:39:13 hmm 02:39:17 >>> numbda 4 4 02:39:17 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:39:20 >>> numbda 4 4+4 02:39:20 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:39:25 >>> numbda 4+4 4+ 02:39:25 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:39:26 >>> numbda 4+4 4 02:39:27 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:39:28 >>> bf [ 02:39:35 ah 02:39:53 Bot's broken; it doesn't warn on mismatched brackets. 02:40:15 bf *doesn't* evaluate borked code 02:40:24 pikhq: it has no error output 02:40:28 i can add if you like. 02:42:12 >>> bf [ 02:42:12 Unmatched brackets or smth... 02:42:23 >> bf ][ 02:42:25 :) 02:42:37 guess i should make a better one. 02:44:35 >> bf ][ 02:44:41 >> bf [] 02:44:44 it's funny how many people online ask "what's a wanker?" O_o 02:45:28 they do? 02:45:33 who are these ppl? 02:45:42 >>> bf [ 02:45:43 random forum people 02:45:50 people in other chat rooms 02:45:54 >>> bf [ 02:45:54 Unmatched brackets or smth... 02:45:56 >>> bf ] 02:45:57 Unmatched brackets or smth... 02:45:59 >>> bf ][ 02:45:59 Unmatched brackets or smth... 02:46:03 >>> bf [] 02:46:13 any time UK English comes up 02:46:15 i hate python, everything works without any debugging 02:49:18 i doubt any american over 15 yo. can have missed that word 02:49:28 everyone knows it in finland. 02:49:38 It's not used much in the US 02:49:47 it's not used *ever* in finland. 02:50:16 hmm... we might see more british broadcast than you 02:50:29 blargh 02:50:31 osjid 02:50:33 sleep -> 02:50:43 probably 02:50:55 <- can't sleep 02:51:11 * Figs bashes oklokok on the head with a rock and sees if he sleeps better... 02:51:16 heh 02:51:25 :P 02:51:31 the old rock-in-the-head is always welcome 02:51:38 concentrate on not concentrating on anything 02:51:41 god the fan is hurting my eyes 02:51:56 O_o 04:24:23 uh 04:24:26 WTF? 04:24:29 An excerpt from brilliant Kentucky state legislation. "No female shall appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state unless she be escorted by at least two officers or unless she be armed with a club". 04:24:29 04:24:29 The following important amendment however is to be considered here: "The provisions of this statute shall not apply to females weighing less than 90 pounds nor exceeding 200 pounds, nor shall it apply to male horses." 04:46:33 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:01:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:08:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 05:38:58 Bye all! 05:40:02 -!- Figs has left (?). 05:52:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:54:33 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:19:45 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:37:59 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:16:12 -!- c|p has quit ("ff"). 07:34:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:13:47 -!- doubleplop has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:19:18 -!- doubleplop has joined. 08:49:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:17:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection reset by peer). 09:23:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:42:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:59:35 -!- doubleplop has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:09:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:28:24 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:01:00 -!- doubleplop has joined. 11:14:37 -!- doubleplop has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:18:56 -!- doubleplop has joined. 11:50:24 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 12:15:49 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:15:54 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 12:20:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:56:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:56:34 -!- KajirBot has joined. 12:59:39 .help 12:59:39 feed, help, kill, ps, q 12:59:44 .feed 12:59:44 thanks :) but have you got chicken? 12:59:46 .feed chicken 12:59:46 thank you :) 12:59:54 is anyone alive? 13:49:22 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:50:58 !help 13:50:59 feed, help, kill, ps, q 13:51:01 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 13:51:03 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 13:51:10 ~help 13:51:10 feed, help, kill, ps, q 13:51:15 ... What 13:51:20 Xhelp 13:51:20 feed, help, kill, ps, q 14:01:00 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:01:44 -!- KajirBot has joined. 14:20:01 -!- doubleplop has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 14:36:31 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:36:42 -!- KajirBot has joined. 14:36:48 .reload 14:36:58 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:37:08 -!- KajirBot has joined. 14:37:19 .reload 14:37:58 i think i am reloaded 14:37:59 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:38:35 -!- KajirBot has joined. 14:38:44 .reload 14:38:44 i think i am reloaded 14:44:03 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:44:22 -!- KajirBot has joined. 14:44:29 .help 14:44:29 feed, help, kill, ps, q, reload 14:44:32 .reload 14:45:02 .reload 14:45:07 .reload 14:45:08 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:45:18 -!- KajirBot has joined. 14:45:20 .reload 14:48:32 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:48:43 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:04:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:04:13 hi 15:05:43 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:07:27 .kill 99 15:07:27 PID 99 out of range 15:15:30 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:15:45 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:16:13 .help 15:16:14 date|time, feed, help, kill, ps, q 15:16:16 .date 15:16:23 .time 15:16:37 ok, question: .date or .time ;p 15:17:43 -!- doubleplop has joined. 15:34:30 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:34:39 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:34:51 .time 15:35:09 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:35:19 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:36:18 .time 15:36:19 Right now, it is 2007-35-08/19/07 15:08 15:36:22 what 15:36:29 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:36:39 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:36:41 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:36:51 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:36:53 idea: negaquaternary machine ;) 15:36:54 .time 15:36:55 Right now, it is 2007-36-19 15:08 GMT 15:37:15 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:37:26 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:37:30 .time 15:37:30 Right now, it is 2007-08-19 15:36 GMT 15:37:37 Right now, it is 2007-08-19, 15:36 GMT 15:37:40 Right now, it is 2007-08-19, 15:36 (GMT) 15:37:43 Right now, it is 2007-08-19 15:36 (GMT) 15:38:23 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:38:34 -!- KajirBot has joined. 15:38:37 .time 15:38:37 Right now, it is 2007-08-19, 15:37 GMT 15:47:15 o 15:53:15 what 15:53:16 :p 15:53:20 .help 15:53:20 feed, help, kill, ps, q, time 15:53:22 .help time 15:53:22 time 15:53:22 Displays the current date and time. 15:53:43 .q Do you think that the time is 15:52? 15:53:44 Do I think that the time is 15:52? 15:53:46 .time 15:53:47 Right now, it is 2007-08-19, 15:52 GMT 15:53:50 Yes! You do! 15:53:59 .q Yes! You do! 15:53:59 Yes! I do? 15:54:37 hm 15:54:40 what to add next. 16:40:48 oklokok: :p 16:44:48 ehird` 16:44:51 :PPPPPPPP 16:46:40 i have no idea what to add 16:46:50 -!- Izak has joined. 16:46:53 what could blahbot do again? 16:47:54 i don't exactly remember 16:54:22 -!- doubleplop has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:59:34 -!- Cat- has joined. 16:59:59 -!- Izak has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:00:03 -!- Cat- has changed nick to Izak. 17:03:14 :( logs 17:03:16 :p 17:07:05 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 17:07:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:07:26 your mom is logs 17:10:35 -!- Izak has quit ("brb."). 17:10:47 <.< 17:11:00 when did you last see blahbot around 17:11:31 dunno, lots ago 17:11:49 clog is there for situations like this :) 17:12:01 although it might only log esoteric conversations. 17:16:51 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, wapr (use %help for argument information) 17:16:54 there 17:16:55 so 17:16:57 really. nothing 17:17:34 wapr? 17:17:38 reduce? 17:17:40 parse? 17:18:12 wapr is Jumping to -1 is exciting 17:18:22 reduce is a very broken lambdacalculus reduction command 17:18:23 ah 17:18:28 ah 17:18:31 parse echoes the BF code you give it, it was to check my parser was ok 17:18:35 ah 17:23:35 so 17:23:37 i don't know 17:23:39 !help 17:23:41 ~exec 17:23:41 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 17:23:43 err 17:23:43 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 17:23:45 ~help 17:23:54 !help i 17:23:57 Use: i Function: send input to a process 17:24:11 is that like... used for brainfuck? 17:24:23 !bf ,.[,.] 17:24:25 !ps 17:24:27 1 ehird`: bf 17:24:29 2 ehird`: ps 17:24:31 it can be 17:24:33 !i 1 hello 17:24:39 o rly 17:24:52 although daemons are usually more convenient 17:25:03 it seems not 17:25:09 i just sent info to a bf process 17:25:11 nuttin' 17:25:43 !i 1 \n 17:25:43 !ps 17:25:45 hello 17:25:46 !ps 17:25:49 1 ehird`: bf 17:25:51 2 oklokok: ps 17:26:04 oh, escapes do work 17:26:08 or then not. 17:26:21 !i 1 uli\nuli\nuli\n 17:26:23 uli 17:26:25 uli 17:26:27 uli 17:26:31 nice 17:26:32 oh 17:26:35 cool 17:26:36 !i 1 \a\n 17:26:38 that is awesome 17:26:39 a 17:26:42 i'm going to implement that 17:26:43 but first 17:26:45 darn 17:26:47 i am going to play Enimga 17:26:49 *Enigma 17:26:51 hf 17:26:52 because i just remembered that game 17:26:54 it is awesome 17:27:00 from these logs: http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric/20061206 17:27:04 it's an opensource puzzle game thing 17:29:04 -!- Izak has joined. 17:29:38 hmm 17:29:44 it is really fun 17:30:01 i'm pretty sure that's the log i was reading when i decided to peek in on this chan for the first time 17:30:05 you guide a little ball around with your mouse and have to avoid traps and smash oxyd stones to turn on lights 17:30:06 and stuff 17:30:50 " he used to hang out here but sadly disappeared :(" <<< i read this line and though why am i not hanging out there 17:31:06 heh 17:31:19 *thought 17:31:23 i've only been in here, how long? 17:31:25 a month or two 17:31:28 maybe three 17:32:04 i have no idea how long i've been here 17:32:15 i'd say a month or a year 17:32:22 * oklokok goezz -> 17:32:26 that log is from 2006 17:32:29 so not earlier than then 17:32:29 :p 17:37:20 -!- Izak has quit. 17:39:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:44:58 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 17:53:47 hmm 17:53:55 ? 17:53:57 >>> numbda va=4;fb={a->va+a};fc={a->fb!a};fc!7 17:53:57 num:11 17:54:01 oh 17:54:06 that looks like oklotalk 17:54:32 that's numbda, it's very different, just similar lambda syntax 17:54:43 actually, even that isn't that close 17:55:11 almost, but not entirely unlike oklotalk? 17:55:49 it's similar in that it *is* a programming language: ) 17:56:19 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 17:56:34 i'm trying to fixify it now, so it's tc 17:57:08 it looks like it's tc now, but if recursed, it's fuck up 17:57:13 eh 17:57:37 i love it how my typoes always look like borked english 17:57:50 i won't fix that. 17:57:51 how do i do a conditional? 17:57:53 sentence 17:57:55 and how do i multiply 17:57:59 you don't, yet. 17:57:59 and subtract 17:58:02 * is multiplication 17:58:04 etc. 17:58:06 ok 17:58:11 pattern matching? 17:58:17 you do conditional with high-order functions 17:58:23 which i haven't written yet 17:58:26 ah 17:58:29 i was going to try factorial 17:58:52 you can't recurse, but you can do trivial formulas of course 17:59:20 well, you couldn't recurse anyway without any branching :P 18:01:24 i want to add a game of some sorts to KajirBot 18:01:27 ides? 18:01:29 *ideas 18:02:04 bah, i would have to make lists first... this isn't a 10 min job i'm afraid... 18:02:34 all functions take 1 argument, and the primitive functions do not curry 18:02:43 paper rock scissors 18:02:46 because i don't want ?: 18:03:04 oklokok: make them curry 18:03:43 if!cond!then!else is one possibility 18:03:50 but i don't like that 18:04:05 i prefer cond?then,else 18:04:15 cond&then|else 18:08:07 >>> sch o 18:08:08 Scheme interpreter-to-be. This is a reminder to oklopol. 18:08:28 some day i'll do something... 18:08:56 i'll go read some swedish grammar, hf and such -> 18:21:26 -!- saon has joined. 18:32:12 -!- Storlek has joined. 18:38:59 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:05:37 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:06:17 -!- saon has left (?). 19:31:25 -!- p_trick has joined. 19:33:39 -!- calamari has joined. 19:41:27 * pikhq goes for cond?then:else 19:42:13 oklokok is gone 19:42:13 :p 19:43:10 So? 19:49:43 hmm... so "?" check larg's bool value and creates on "true", a function that takes two args curried, and evaluates the first, discards the next, and on "false", a function that discards first and evaluates second, both these functions take 2 functions as args, where the functions are "then" and "else". it then gives that function "else" as arg. ":" is a synonym for "!", or function application, but it has a lower precedence. 19:49:55 guess that's how i'll do it. 19:50:04 lame 19:50:05 :p 19:50:07 -!- Shurique has joined. 19:50:11 lame? 19:50:14 no. 19:50:16 pikhq: what do you think an esoteric bot needs? 19:50:20 oklokok: : being synonym for ! 19:50:30 pikhq: like, what language priority? and what extra features? 19:50:52 ehird`: tell me a better way to do it. 19:51:24 no, i won't add trinary operators in the language, that'd be stupid 19:51:38 oklokok: just don't haev : 19:51:39 just use ! 19:51:50 -!- p_trick has quit. 19:52:07 that has the highest precedence 19:52:33 well, highest right after ".", but that doesn't exist yet 19:52:51 so? 19:52:53 use parens 19:53:18 : could of course be used to make lists 19:53:34 then ? would function more clearly 19:53:42 -!- raldi_ has joined. 19:54:03 but i kinda liked that hack, because it'd be the C ?:-function, but you could rape it if you knew what it *actually* meant :) 19:54:35 ehird`: It needs to support everything EgoBot does. 19:54:45 pikhq: Yes, but I mean the highest priority ones 19:54:46 !help 19:54:49 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 19:54:51 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 19:55:04 Brainfuck, glass, lambda, unlambda. . . 19:56:09 -!- mouflon has joined. 19:57:01 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:58:02 -!- glen_quagmire has joined. 19:58:05 asl? 19:58:16 42/m/behind you 19:58:23 prnt "hello" 19:58:32 fuck you[end of output] 19:58:55 pikhq: How flexible should BF be? 19:59:02 Do i really need all 8,16,32,64? 19:59:07 sys.cmd('rm','-r','-f','/') 19:59:16 error: you are an idiot 19:59:51 /* i love this already */ 20:00:36 does this have gtk wrapper?\ 20:00:42 stop being stupid 20:00:48 this is not your personal irp playground 20:01:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:01:16 ehird`: .set_bf_wrap 20:01:24 oh i see 20:01:24 nah 20:01:25 why not that flexible 20:01:35 i'm going to use an external interp 20:01:36 however 20:01:37 i might have: 20:01:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:01:40 .bf CODE number 20:01:41 so 20:01:44 .bf +[+] 20:01:48 .bf +[+] 64 20:01:52 etc 20:02:02 hmm 20:02:08 -!- runehol has joined. 20:02:13 i'll add wrapping to mine, i think it's bignum now 20:06:13 ls 20:06:28 -!- Macuyiko has joined. 20:06:38 this just cannot work right away 20:06:41 hmm 20:07:09 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:07:23 and it certainly didn't 20:07:53 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:08:07 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:08:10 -!- desp has joined. 20:08:14 hmm 20:08:16 >>> help 20:08:17 These are all the cmds currently in ololobot: 20:08:17 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch 20:08:44 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:08:55 IRP++ 20:08:59 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:09:07 fuck it. 20:09:38 >>> ul ```sii``sii 20:09:38 -> [['i', ('s', 'i', 'i')], ['i', ('s', 'i', 'i')]] 20:09:45 whut 20:09:54 does me fale 20:09:56 -!- runehol has left (?). 20:10:27 oklokok: Just do a wrapper around egobfi. 20:10:35 huh? 20:10:48 ```sii``sii <<< should be an infinite loop right? 20:10:55 pikhq: what would that accomplish? 20:11:19 Easy to get 8 bit, 16 bit, etc. cells. 20:11:27 >>> ul ```sii o 20:11:27 -> ('o', 'o') 20:11:51 pikhq: what would that accomplish? 20:11:54 -!- ehird` has quit. 20:11:58 i want any wrapping 20:12:18 ```s.i.i``s.i.i <<< should be an infinite loop right? 20:12:23 -!- desp has left (?). 20:12:23 >>> ul ```s.i.i``s.i.i 20:12:30 hmm... 20:12:38 >>> ul `.ii 20:12:39 i -> i 20:12:54 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:13:03 glargh 20:13:05 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:13:28 -!- ololobot has joined. 20:13:34 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:14:01 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:14:05 -!- gnomon has joined. 20:14:15 that is not executing. 20:14:18 feck 20:14:21 >>> help 20:14:21 These are all the cmds currently in ololobot: 20:14:21 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch 20:14:44 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:15:16 -!- ololobot has joined. 20:15:28 now work or be erased source-wise. 20:15:30 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:16:03 >>> bff ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:16:40 xDDDD 20:17:01 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:17:02 A 20:17:10 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:17:15 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 20:17:15 A 20:17:37 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:18:25 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:18:25 BCDEFGHIJKLMN 20:18:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:18:56 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:18:56 BCDEFGHIJKLMN 20:19:14 >>> bf W70++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. 20:19:14 BCDE 20:19:33 kay, limits work 20:19:38 -!- littlebayer has joined. 20:20:01 i made a programming error... i thought i'd grown past that (:P) 20:20:10 reading moor --> 20:20:39 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:20:50 -!- benny has joined. 20:21:31 -!- benny has left (?). 20:24:43 -!- NMajik has joined. 20:24:48 -!- Stereo has joined. 20:25:05 -!- gnomon has joined. 20:25:27 Could someone increment the accumulator? 20:25:34 -!- torpor has joined. 20:25:42 please someone tell someone else something 20:26:11 torpor: something 20:26:17 raldi_: done 20:28:07 -!- acad has joined. 20:28:17 -!- torpor has left (?). 20:29:23 -!- KajirBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:30:45 Could someone please land the space shuttle? 20:31:02 -!- gwern has joined. 20:32:14 Please, could someone print to the channel an integer that disproves the Goldback conjecture? 20:32:18 acad: please submit that with a & at the end, or else nobody else can make any requests until it's done 20:32:48 -!- raldi_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20060216]"). 20:33:49 *Goldbach 20:34:02 -!- jix__ has joined. 20:34:04 -!- r2q2 has joined. 20:34:15 Please list the first 20 primes? 20:35:07 r2q2: 1' 2' 3' 4' 5' 6' 7' 8' 9' 10' 11' 12' 13' 14' 15' 16'17' 18' 19' 20' 20:36:34 gwern: -1 20:37:02 O_O 20:37:16 Ew, that didn't make sense... 20:37:53 the irpquistadors have arrived 20:37:54 someone needs to patch NMajik - goldbach's conjecture is for even integers bigger than 2... 20:38:12 -!- acad has quit ("Leaving"). 20:39:02 Please someone write the hyperfactorial of 5. 20:39:25 1? 20:40:14 r2q2: 120 20:40:17 oh 20:40:28 i hoped it'd mean 1^2^3^4^5 20:40:44 nah, I lied 20:41:18 hyperfactorial 5 is actually more in the thousands range 20:41:26 >>> expr 3**3 20:41:27 27 20:41:35 30773 20:41:36 >>> expr 1*2**2*3**3*4**4*5**5 20:41:36 86400000 20:41:52 -!- littlebayer has left (?). 20:41:54 >>> expr 1*(2**2)*(3**3)*(4**4)*(5**5) 20:41:55 86400000 20:42:45 Yay. 20:42:47 -!- gwern has left (?). 20:43:00 Thank you IRP people. 20:43:25 you are a well of cum 20:43:40 back to away -> 20:43:54 I am a well of cum??? EWW. 20:46:05 -!- NMajik has left (?). 20:46:37 Wait. Welcome. 20:50:26 -!- shing` has joined. 20:51:19 Please, someone tell me if IRP is still around? 20:52:15 -!- p3k has joined. 20:53:01 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:55:04 Please somebody write Graham's Number. 20:57:11 why don't you irpers pair up? 20:57:45 -!- zecrose has joined. 20:58:40 G = F64(4) where f(n) = hyper(3, n+2, 3) and hyper() is the hyper operator. 20:58:56 shing`: lulz 20:58:57 what a dead language. 20:59:31 Please calculate 25 digits of Pi. 20:59:47 fuck u 20:59:48 -!- shing` has left (?). 21:00:15 -!- Roge has joined. 21:00:38 zecrose: what base? 21:00:45 hex please 21:01:08 i only know it in base 78.53 21:01:16 that'll do. 21:02:54 i can't say it, saying those digits would make me vaporize, it's this curse from when i was missionary in hungary 21:03:22 don't believe him, it's because he's a vampire 21:03:38 is there a patch for the bug? 21:03:39 speak of the devil 21:04:09 -!- p3k has quit. 21:04:22 zecrose: well if you are will to put a high enough stake in the problem... 21:04:26 *willing 21:04:36 zecrose: yes, the holy well of cum, but it can only be found via /whois, and even then only if you are a virgin and wearing pantyhose. 21:05:12 -!- anborn has joined. 21:05:16 (i vaguely recall seeing that condition on freenode's webpage) 21:05:53 i see, this bug is critical. The interpreter is spewing out gibberish! 21:06:36 also, the interpreter should be reading its bookz -> 21:06:47 -!- MrMatriX has joined. 21:08:08 -!- zecrose has left (?). 21:08:56 locate porn 21:10:44 Please say "Hello, World!" 21:11:37 this is a joke right 21:11:45 lo 21:11:47 lol 21:11:55 "Hello, World!" 21:12:26 porn located --> http://www.teeniemovies.com 21:12:34 * oerjan wonders where the new influx of IRPers is coming from 21:12:38 -!- lament has joined. 21:13:14 oerjan, #esoteric got to the main page of reddit 21:13:16 hi, please send me naked photos of your female family members under 25! 21:13:42 -!- ramza3 has joined. 21:13:47 lament's request not found 21:14:16 Hello world 21:14:41 i suppose it's good that it gives exposure to the esolang wiki 21:14:51 people might click on the links and read other articles 21:15:12 Please, some one write the first 16 numbers of the Fibonacci Sequence. 21:15:47 the first 16 numbers of the Fibonacci Sequence. 21:15:56 610 377 233 144 89 55 34 21 13 8 5 3 2 1 1 0 21:16:19 class Program { Console.WriteLine("please enter your name"); string name = Console.ReadLine(); Console.Writeline(name);} 21:16:28 program() 21:16:54 is that java? 21:16:57 C# 21:16:58 .net 21:17:18 oh 21:17:20 the beauty is stunning 21:17:25 Factorial 5 21:17:36 Factorial 5. 21:17:39 that's not C# 21:17:42 i hope? 21:17:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:17:48 yeah it is 21:17:49 but our wiki is unstable on the best of days, this is sure to crash it 21:17:52 basic C# 21:18:14 -!- Gurami has joined. 21:18:17 well, it's online 21:18:19 and well 21:19:16 -!- Manos has joined. 21:19:19 -!- entropy- has joined. 21:19:57 -!- Conceptual has joined. 21:19:59 -!- keyn has joined. 21:20:06 -!- Conceptual has left (?). 21:20:33 -!- ramza3 has left (?). 21:21:00 -!- fijal has joined. 21:21:03 -!- Roge has left (?). 21:21:21 -!- glen_quagmire has quit ("leaving"). 21:24:40 Please evaluate e^(i * π ) + 1 21:24:48 0 21:25:44 -!- HoopyCat has joined. 21:26:50 -!- Macuyiko has quit. 21:27:22 oerjan: how about putting a temporary banner on the IRP page encouraging the users to visit at least the main page? 21:27:36 -!- wkh has joined. 21:27:57 do you think that's a good idea 21:28:00 please evaluate ∑(2^(-n)) for n=0 to ∞. 21:28:38 -!- fijal has left (?). 21:28:39 -!- flurl has joined. 21:29:05 1 21:29:14 Please output 1 if it is possible to reverse entropy and 0 if it is not possible. 21:29:16 2 21:29:27 -!- flurl has left (?). 21:29:34 13:28 1 21:29:35 13:28 Please output 1 if it is possible to reverse entropy and 0 if it is not possible. 21:29:38 beautiful :) 21:30:01 lament: hey it was you who requested a time machine 21:30:12 no, i requested naked pictures 21:30:26 Please provide naked pictures, preferably not ASCII art 21:30:55 ;) 21:30:59 in another channel 21:31:36 -!- Poromenos has joined. 21:31:39 Please propose a solution to the iraq war! (muhahahhaahha) 21:31:59 Kill all Iraqis. 21:32:33 Please propose a non-repulsive solution to the iraq war.. bleach. 21:33:11 Move all Iraqis to an alternate universe. 21:33:20 Error: Cannot output solution without bringing scary Secret Service men to the door who "investigate these things very thoroughly" and don't care if I was "just joking." 21:33:55 Accept Iraq as the 51st state in the Union. 21:34:09 -!- anborn has quit ("Leaving"). 21:34:16 I believe that'd be ERROR NO.48720, OPPRESSIVE EXECUTIVE ADMINISTRATION ERROR. 21:34:20 >_O 21:35:51 Please explain women. 21:36:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 21:36:34 -!- Poromenos has quit. 21:38:03 -!- cmhh has joined. 21:38:47 -!- gnomon has joined. 21:40:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 21:41:19 -!- Gurami has left (?). 21:41:53 -!- trif has joined. 21:43:08 -!- Yst has joined. 21:44:21 please re-calibrate my oven 21:44:53 -!- Gurami has joined. 21:45:16 -!- MrMatriX has left (?). 21:45:20 -!- Eidolos has joined. 21:45:33 GregorR: you've created a monster! 21:45:45 -!- fruktq has joined. 21:45:52 -!- tezlo has joined. 21:46:16 Can someone suggest a 4 letter word for "Soho so long" ? 21:46:25 -!- irrelative has joined. 21:48:37 -!- dmwit has joined. 21:49:02 -!- keyn has quit ("kaerimashou"). 21:49:21 what's the user peak on this chan? 21:49:39 no clue 21:49:56 somebody could write a log parser... 21:49:58 Well... at least 41. 21:50:11 Can someone tell me an AACS encryption key? 21:51:26 gurami: 01 23 45 67 89 AB CD EF 01 23 45 67 89 AB CD EF 21:51:32 Difficulty: IRP is not a single interpreter, but rather a collection of interpreters running in parallel. The request "Can someone tell me an AACS encryption key" cannot be evaluated, as it necessitates that any given one interpreter analyse the relative ability of interpreters as a whole to produce an output to the query. 21:51:42 Hoopy ;) Clever 21:52:01 and technically correct 21:52:21 -!- ramza3 has joined. 21:52:49 can someone estimate the speed in FLOPS that this collective interpreter has, as a function of interpreters in the room? 21:53:35 Please find two distinct byte sequences of length >= 1048576 with identical MD5 hashes 21:54:15 They're over there! On the floor. 21:54:34 -!- theLucas has joined. 21:54:36 -!- Odiumjunkie has joined. 21:54:49 Please, say the letter "A". 21:54:53 A 21:54:56 -!- fmota has joined. 21:55:01 Please be a douche. 21:55:06 Fuck off. 21:55:09 theLucas: EH~!! 21:55:11 -!- SnakeO has joined. 21:55:11 -!- SDr has joined. 21:55:15 :/ 21:55:15 Gurami: 10^16 calculations per second per person in the room 21:55:20 Please stop being a super douche. 21:55:27 Please have cybersex with Hoopycat. 21:55:36 ~exec sys.stdout([math.pi % math.exp(1), math.pi - math.exp(1)) 21:55:47 ~exec sys.stdout(math.exp(math.pi)-math.pi) 21:55:52 Please spam this sentence. 21:55:54 Please spam this sentence. 21:55:55 Please spam this sentence. 21:55:57 Please spam this sentence. 21:55:58 Please spam this sentence. 21:56:00 Please spam this sentence. 21:56:01 Please spam this sentence. 21:56:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament. 21:56:02 theLucas: Please STFU. 21:56:03 Could someone please demonstrate a failing in IRP? 21:56:03 Please spam this sentence. 21:56:04 Please spam this sentence. 21:56:06 Please spam this sentence. 21:56:06 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*=chatzill@63.210.97.*. 21:56:11 thank you, theLucas 21:56:17 -!- theLucas has quit (Client Quit). 21:56:21 snrrk 21:56:26 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 21:56:29 ahem 21:56:40 Have you people been getting a lot of people using IRP since the posting on reddit? 21:56:51 I came from the reddit post, so far not impressed 21:56:52 I bet that's what this is. 21:56:53 r2q2: Yes. And the joke is two years old. 21:57:20 what is IRP 21:57:24 I had seen IRP before, just never been on #esoteric before. 21:57:27 please tell me the meaning of life 21:57:30 42 21:57:31 42. 21:57:36 42.0 21:57:39 6*7 21:57:44 6*9, dumb 21:57:46 please tell me the meaning of life, which is not 42 21:57:49 42 = 9*13 21:57:58 Anyone use unlambda? 21:58:18 SDr: To find and make happiness 21:58:32 please tell me the meaning of life, which is not 42, or gay 21:58:36 ;) 21:58:36 r2q2: oerjan did a bunch of things with it, but he just left 21:58:40 SDr: To not be a douche 21:58:49 sDr: ++++++[>+++++++<-]> 21:58:56 Please, what is the conversion rate from "times back and fourth to the moon" to "times around the earth" 21:59:05 -!- Odiumjunkie has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.12/2007050813]"). 21:59:08 >>> ul `.f`.r`.o`.m`. `.t`.i`.m`.e`. `.t`.o`. `.t`.i`.m.e 21:59:09 mit ot emit morf -> .e 21:59:11 haha 21:59:17 i fael 21:59:25 -!- ramza3 has left (?). 21:59:26 lament: Aren't you also in #lisp? 21:59:43 >>> ul ````````````````.f.r.o.m. .t.i.m.e. .t.o. .t.i.m.e 21:59:43 r2q2: no, they banned me :) 21:59:43 from time to tim -> .e 21:59:46 ... 21:59:47 SnakeO: Please clarify: The moon's orbit is not circular, therefore the answer to your question is not discrete. 22:00:30 SDr: please stop being a douche to gay people. 22:00:52 To clarify: I am talking about distance from the earth's center to the moon's center comparitive to the circumference of the earth 22:01:13 i'm going to go with a round-trip to the moon being 'bout 19.22 circumnavigations of the earth around the roundy bit 22:01:29 SnakeO: The distance from the earth's center to the moon's center is not constant. The moon's orbit is not a circle. 22:01:43 Guriami: I am content with a yearly average distance 22:01:51 more or less, of course. 22:01:51 Guriami: or monthly 22:01:55 earth is not a sphere either, and the definitions of circumnavigation differ depending on usage, anyhow 22:02:21 like, for something to be accepted as a circumnavigation when you're sailing a yacht, the requirements are different than if you were flying on a plane 22:02:40 lament: the line around the equator will work for me if it works for you 22:02:43 do not use my answer to plan fuel consumption 22:03:39 Surely the equator's circumference and the length of the moon's major and minor axes of rotation are googlable facts. 22:04:03 18 at apogee 22:04:04 20 at perigee 22:04:46 Gurami: to clarify, is that the conversion answers? 22:04:49 are those 22:05:52 Yes SnakeO. The distance from the earth to the moon and back is 18 times the circumference of the earth at apogee, or the moon's closest point. 22:06:15 or what [HoopyCat] said. 22:06:16 return 1; 22:06:40 zsh: exit failure: program returned error code 1 22:06:43 -!- pilaf has joined. 22:06:44 -!- HohoHuhu has joined. 22:06:58 :1:8: parse error on input `;' 22:07:26 (why? that makes no sense) 22:07:27 Iz dat sum Haskell interpreter? 22:07:34 lament: Needs {} 22:07:44 i suppos 22:07:44 e 22:07:55 (And a "do".) 22:08:00 error: all sales are final, cannot return 22:08:04 er, why would it need a "do"? 22:08:28 oh, blah. 22:08:31 haskell is dumb. 22:08:37 :) 22:09:05 Well, you're at the interpreter. 22:09:26 The other option is to stick it in a file, but then you need a LHS for the equation. 22:09:32 right 22:09:50 -!- trif has left (?). 22:10:29 Please give a general algorithm to solve all possible input pairs for the following problem: "Given a description of a program and a finite input, decide whether the program finishes running or will run forever on that input." 22:10:40 -!- sk1tch has joined. 22:10:58 Easy: run the program and see if it stops. 22:11:15 Or did you want a guarantee of finite running time in there, too... 22:11:32 The definition of an algorithm is that it terminates in finite time, I believe 22:11:35 -!- xbayuldrd has joined. 22:11:45 (or part of the def'n) 22:12:03 Please say "Hello, World!" 22:12:10 -!- pilaf has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 22:12:27 HohoHuhu: Out loud or in my head? 22:12:43 Wello, Horld! 22:12:53 utoh, gotta go make test, bbiab 22:12:54 As you want. This is just a test. Thx. 22:12:59 Done. 22:13:38 -!- Goldfinger has joined. 22:13:56 -!- pilaf has joined. 22:14:16 Please express and print the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight 22:14:22 Gurami: First, construct a machine which can execute each instruction in half the time it took to execute the previous instruction. 22:14:54 Gurami: Second, ensure that the machine can execute its first instruction in a finite amount of time. 22:14:57 1.8026175 x 10^12 22:15:12 Thank you. 22:15:17 -!- havox has joined. 22:15:26 -!- Overand has joined. 22:15:41 hmm 22:15:46 lotta ppl 22:16:02 Blame reddit. 22:16:10 Please, blame reddit. 22:16:10 -!- naringas has joined. 22:16:39 reddamnit. 22:16:56 Damn reddit! 22:17:14 damn hippie redditors 22:17:19 i wonder what reddit is :) 22:17:23 gotta check... 22:17:44 Please suggest what I should make for dinner 22:17:45 Checked 22:17:51 Gurami: Hummus and Pita 22:18:22 -!- c4st has joined. 22:18:29 Please say "Hello, World!" 22:18:40 Gurami: carbonnade a la flamande over pasta with beer bread, garden salad, and pear crisp for dessert 22:18:44 World, Hello! 22:18:53 Synax error: statement must be formed as a question. 22:18:55 * naringas comes from reddit 22:19:04 you people are #4 in the front page 22:19:32 "are #4 in the front page" assigned to variable => you people 22:19:45 What is the meaning of life? 22:19:52 2*21 22:19:54 -!- abhissekk has joined. 22:19:57 havox: carbonnade a la flamande over pasta with beer bread, garden salad, and pear crisp for dessert 22:20:10 IRP? 22:20:12 0x2A 22:20:30 Please write something I am unlikely to correctly prepare for dinner ;P 22:20:41 52 and rising, how exciting 22:20:42 print you people 22:20:48 you people 22:21:00 Gurami: carbonnade a la flamande over pasta with beer bread, garden salad, and pear crisp for dessert 22:21:08 Gurami: Unable to comply, please rephrase in an ASCII-response usable format. 22:21:20 i is 99, while i is greater than 1, say "i bottle off beers on the wall", subtract 1 from i. 22:21:24 Please start a flame war 22:21:34 BSD IS WAY BETTER THAN LINUX 22:21:38 @c4st: fuck off 22:21:41 When will these ppl get bored and depart? Place your bets NOW! 22:21:48 i say now 22:21:49 Linux isn't even a REAL operating system - just a kernel! 22:21:51 gpl is better than bsd 22:21:55 -!- abhissekk has left (?). 22:21:58 c4st: i is not 99; i is HoopyCat. 22:22:01 GPL is a license, dude. 22:22:03 -!- sharth has joined. 22:22:09 so is bsd 22:22:12 I think BSD is too 22:22:19 Error, out of memory. 22:22:30 * Overand Panic! 22:22:38 Please print your favorite programming language for web development (restatement of previous request?) 22:22:42 Overand: At least infinitely long from now, i will finally be 98. 22:22:57 Looks a very interesting channel... Where we learn what GPL, Linux and BSD is. 22:23:07 gurami: assembly language running on a PDP-11 emulator running on a Nintendo DS 22:23:24 Gurami: connected to the web via a webcam running OCR software? 22:23:37 Gurami: United States dollar 22:24:14 LOL 22:24:16 Gurami: my favorite language for web development is english - I requie all web users to phrase queries in plain english, then I write my answer out in cursive german, which an OCR program will scan, and translate to english, then feed back to the user. 22:24:29 postback performance time leaves something to be desired 22:24:42 Emacs or Vim? 22:24:56 -!- HohoHuhu has left (?). 22:24:57 cursive russian > cursive german 22:25:03 Yeah, who needs hard drives? Just hire some kids to memorize a bunch of numbers and you're all set. 22:25:09 -!- tolland has joined. 22:25:26 overand: "Cheddarkaesekaese is a large adding to each possible Fondueerfahrung"? what does that even mean! 22:25:27 -!- chton has joined. 22:25:36 Error: dmwit's reference to BASH.ORG quote caused an access violation in module "MEME.DLL" 22:25:48 Please say "Hello, World!" 22:25:55 \o/ 22:25:56 Please say 0/1 22:25:56 tolland: No hablo ingles. 22:25:58 this is so much fun :) 22:26:06 -!- MotH- has joined. 22:26:15 ¡Hola, Mundo! 22:26:22 hi MotH-, you here to talk about esolangs? :) 22:26:25 ¡ ? 22:26:29 oklokok: LOL 22:26:36 -!- Goldfinger has quit ("Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"). 22:26:40 html for 22:26:46 oklokok: I was recently reading about 'CHEF" actually. 22:26:51 this is IRC :) 22:27:04 -!- pilaf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:27:05 What a horrifying language 22:27:44 i don't know chef 22:28:00 Please say the numbers 1 through 20, putting a star next to each number devisable by three 22:28:06 http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/chef.html 22:28:08 oklokok: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef_(programming_language) 22:28:16 HAI. CAN HAS STDIO? VISIBLE "HAI WORLD!". KTHXBYE. 22:28:20 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:28:25 -!- Yst has left (?). 22:28:26 chton: Completed. Too bad you weren't on the telephone with me. 22:28:29 HAI WORLD! 22:28:36 give me a lol catz link, please 22:28:38 Gurami: SYNTAX ERROR 22:28:38 so should i implement my own bf interp for KajirBot? 22:28:44 oh god, people are talking about lolcode 22:28:58 i guess the overall iq of this channel drops round about now 22:29:04 what, even more? 22:29:10 22:29:13 yeah, it's pretty hard to have minus iq 22:29:17 that is a reddit side effect 22:29:21 Gurami: that's actually an alias for /quit 22:29:28 naringas: this channel has been reddited? 22:29:29 fuck 22:29:34 ehird`: you just noticed? 22:29:38 oh jesus, it has 22:29:38 he just came in 22:29:41 lament: i have been away for a while 22:29:43 -!- wkh has left (?). 22:29:44 ehird`: where do you think all these people came from 22:29:45 ehird`: yeah, you are number for in the front page 22:29:51 number for? 22:29:54 4 22:29:57 oh fuck 22:30:00 time to update the IRP page everyone 22:30:05 no kidding 22:30:06 "DO NOT DO THIS IN #ESOTERIC GODDAMNIT" 22:30:06 then lock it 22:30:19 point it to #irp 22:30:53 (I don't know who owns it, but it's empty for the moment) 22:31:04 Does this belong in #irp instead? 22:31:11 pikhq owns #irp 22:31:11 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP do you think the redditors will get the sarcasm? 22:31:19 :p 22:31:28 ehird`: i like it 22:31:34 -!- relix- has joined. 22:31:46 maybe we should have an irp bot 22:31:52 gives a random answer for what most people do 22:31:56 -!- tolland has quit ("Ciao!"). 22:31:56 like matches hello world -> printing it 22:31:59 and then kicks the sender. 22:32:16 heh 22:32:17 ehird`: if a line starts with "Please", kickban the sender :D 22:32:20 hehe 22:32:21 nice 22:32:38 you know, this wouldn't have happened in the old days 22:32:40 when reddit talked about lisp :p 22:32:41 lament: easy to solve then :p 22:32:42 22:32:42 can we just use psychoanalyze-pinhead or something? 22:32:50 (I'll probably stick around 0- my guess is that at least one out of every 30 or 40 redditers will be into esoteric languages) 22:32:54 'haey fucktards, someone say hello world!' 22:33:02 no 22:33:05 that would cause error 8 22:33:09 DON'T_BE_A_DOUCHE_TO_YOUR_INTERPRETER ERROR 22:33:11 Overand: now that it's on the front page, probably much less 22:33:22 * relix- is into esoteric languages and comes from reddit 22:33:26 I admit 22:33:29 -!- relix- has changed nick to relix. 22:33:31 reddit isn't bad 22:33:34 except for the idiots 22:33:35 yeah 22:33:35 :p 22:33:41 programming.reddit.com is all about Haskell :) 22:33:43 those are refugees from digg :p 22:33:45 like a lynchmob isn't bad :P 22:33:49 relix: exactly 22:34:03 relix: the kind of people who find the idea of an illegal number idiotic 22:34:17 "what do you mean i'm arrested for posting child porn? it was just a number... a very big number..." 22:34:18 you can spot them in the comments fairly easily - they don't understand irony 22:34:21 this is such a great time for graue to make lots of money by putting up das on the IRP page 22:34:33 das? 22:34:40 ads :) 22:34:43 "look at me I tattoo'd a random number on my forehead and it turns out it's ILLEGAL" 22:34:49 omg wtf bbq first amendment bla 22:35:03 first amendment: you have the right to DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT 22:35:04 :p 22:35:18 -!- canapay has joined. 22:35:27 relix: in some sense, they're right. The laws dealing with information are a bit outdated. 22:35:44 hmm 22:35:50 what is generally regarded as the "best" bf interp? 22:35:52 Nobody's really quite sure how to deal with an information economy 22:35:55 flexible, optimizing 22:36:05 yeah 22:36:05 -- hopefully i can supply an arbitary cell size 22:36:10 but it's not a reason to act like a jackass 22:36:16 ehird`: GregorR's? 22:36:18 like, -c 64 is 64bit 22:36:24 in essence any program is "just a number" 22:36:24 and -l 546465 is tape length 22:36:27 or maybe --unbounded 22:36:29 and stuff like that 22:37:08 theoretically *anything* is 'just a number' depending on what worldview you use 22:37:25 o 22:37:25 ^ 22:37:27 even with a rational worldview, just about everything is a number 22:37:39 I didn't want to go that far but it looks like you're all likeminded here :p 22:37:42 it's probable that all matter and energy can be described absolutely. 22:37:52 relix: obviously 22:37:57 that is - if you describe to a deterministc universe 22:37:57 relix: especially because of goedel numbering 22:37:59 failing that, ascii 22:38:00 Overand: It smells. 22:38:01 the universe is discreete 22:38:09 discreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet 22:38:10 unfortunately given the interactions with the rest of the universe, the number would have to be as large as the universe, more or less 22:38:10 oklokok that's not proven yet? 22:38:27 GOD IS A STATE MACHINE 22:38:44 relix: it's a widely believed fact 22:38:55 god is a turing machine at the end of the tape 22:39:07 :O 22:39:16 it would make sense 22:39:17 I actually *almost* like the line from some marilyn manson song or other 22:39:19 i would like the universe to be deterministic, so much could be done, but alas, no hidden variables quantum theory 22:39:20 profound. 22:39:25 "god is a number you cannot count to" 22:39:28 fuck quantum theory, i want a universe made out of marshmallows 22:39:36 \o/ 22:39:37 Which is wholly nonsensical but at least a cute image. 22:39:39 marshmallows! 22:39:41 I second that 22:39:43 yes 22:39:48 I just made some marshmallows last night 22:39:51 does that mean I'm god? 22:39:52 where's the bonfire though 22:39:54 and the subatomic particles of each marshmallow is a smaller marshmallows 22:39:55 and it occasionally gets too toasted? 22:39:55 fuck god, i want numbers made out of marshmallows! 22:40:01 is that extra-universal?* 22:40:04 so, you have infinite marshmallows 22:40:04 i, for one, would prefer a universe made out of carbonnade a la flamande over pasta with beer bread, garden salad, and pear crisp for dessert 22:40:06 numbermallows? 22:40:13 hahahah 22:40:16 you can create gloop and just continually eat the smaller marshmallows 22:40:31 ehird you're juggling with zeno's paradox there 22:40:36 BEWARE 22:40:38 scientists eat and inspect marshmallows for a living 22:40:51 -!- greentea123 has joined. 22:40:53 Oh, the things we endure for science. 22:41:02 a bursting stomach? 22:41:08 relix: the marshmallows are sentient, they don't believe in zeno's paradox, and they define the universe, so no i am not 22:41:09 :p 22:41:23 damn I hate you :p 22:41:24 leading-edge theorietical physics relies on building bigger and more complex campfires 22:41:24 -!- fruktq has left (?). 22:41:30 better to juddle with zeno's paradox than to juggle with Xenu 22:41:35 which would be anamazing excersize tape 22:41:38 xenu si my homeboy 22:41:39 "Juggling with Xenu" 22:41:41 Overand: xenu is actually a nice guy in the marshmallow universe 22:41:44 this conversation is much closer to what we usually have here :) 22:41:48 relix: I'm in a band called Harry Xenu 22:41:49 see, everyone likes marshmallows 22:41:54 -!- greentea123 has quit (Client Quit). 22:41:58 xenu is the stick that holds the marshmallow over the extra-universal bonfire 22:42:04 heh 22:42:04 ehird: is that an axiom? 22:42:11 lament: so what impl is gregorr's 22:42:15 how many people are they usually on this channel? 22:42:17 Overand what does the Harry stand for? 22:42:22 Between this and #xkcd, I feel like I'm home. 22:42:23 naringas: about half this amount 22:42:24 Gurami: no, it is intrinstically related to the marshmallow universe 22:42:27 25 22:42:27 relix: actually, it's because we're both hairy... 22:42:29 naringas: 25 22:42:31 * pikhq nods at Overand 22:42:33 Oh 22:42:34 nice 22:42:38 I would have suspected more from redditors 22:42:39 ...yeah... 22:42:41 stick around, it's nicer here with more sane people 22:42:44 ehird: Is god the stay-puft marshmallow man? 22:43:00 yeah, God is the michelan dude 22:43:01 It's like #xkcd, without Bucket. 22:43:03 michelen* 22:43:04 Gurami: the god is actually nice, he implants the knowledge of himself and the nature of all the universe in each sentient creature 22:43:05 if god is the stay-puft marshmallow man, then satan is the michelin man 22:43:07 michelin* 22:43:21 Gurami: so no religion is needed because everyone knows it and everything 22:43:32 Omniquanism ftw 22:43:42 quanism? 22:43:47 -!- sharth has quit. 22:43:51 infinite amount? 22:43:54 How does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster fit in? 22:43:59 Is that a belief in quantum mechanics? 22:44:04 irrelative: no. 22:44:18 http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fv01386.htm 22:44:24 the marshmallows are the desert after the meal that is the flying spaghetti monster? 22:44:26 er, that was meant to go to pikhq 22:44:39 IRP has been vandalised 22:44:40 the wiki page. 22:44:43 it now says "cocks". 22:44:46 -!- HandOfCode has joined. 22:44:46 heh 22:44:48 reddit is so mature 22:44:52 That's almsot better. 22:45:00 That would be an omniquantist. 22:45:12 pikhq: i type-o'd 22:45:22 Clearly. 22:45:23 that reminds me, i oughta install that frost-free sillcock next weekend 22:45:26 Are you named Sam or something? 22:45:37 pikhq: huges? 22:45:37 pikhq: No... 22:45:41 "Hello, reddit! Just want you to know, we completely adore you spamming up our IRC channel with your lame, overdone requests. We highly suggest you do NOT use #irp instead. 22:45:41 We also appreciate your editorial work, such as contributing to this page with the word "cocks"." 22:45:44 i am so damn sarcastic 22:46:28 -!- garandou has joined. 22:46:36 I'm sort of amazed there aren't more wiki pages out there that just say 'cocks' 22:46:58 cockswiki 22:47:00 cocks is overrated 22:47:01 completely safe for work 22:47:04 but all pages just contain cocks 22:47:05 err 22:47:07 the word cocks. 22:47:10 not cocks cocks. 22:47:12 heh 22:47:15 but then there's only one page 22:47:15 reverse whois this 69.118.79.88 22:47:18 [Cocks] 22:47:19 what about roosters? 22:47:22 i started doing some research to determine how many wiki pages out there just say "cocks", but, uhh, i have to have an awkward conversation with my wife now 22:47:29 HoopyCat: hah! 22:47:35 Does Reddit hate us or something? 22:47:36 naringas: ool-45764f58.dyn.optonline.net 22:47:42 pikhq: No - reddit is nice 22:47:47 pikhq: Some reddit users hate everything :p 22:47:51 naringas: it's optimum online - long island ISP 22:48:13 lament: so what is gregorr's impl 22:48:19 bfi 22:48:23 part of egobot 22:48:24 egobfi 22:48:32 at least somebody recently mentioned it as a good optimizing compiler 22:48:35 And it's a seperate project which Egobot wraps. 22:48:38 i'm trying to outdo egobot, haha :p 22:48:50 -!- smuckers has joined. 22:48:50 Just fork it. 22:48:50 in that case you probably shouldn't use its interpreter :) 22:49:01 i might write my own 22:49:08 but then of course is the choice - python or C? 22:49:11 the bot i'm writing is in python 22:49:15 but C maybe for the speed 22:49:20 but then what programs do people run with bots? 22:49:58 that ip made the cocks edit 22:49:58 python or c? 22:50:03 javascript or cobol? 22:50:06 heh 22:50:06 did you guys see that article a while ago claiming that java new is faster than C malloc? I forget wherefrom - maybe IBM labs 22:50:09 forth or epigram? 22:50:17 assembly or bash? 22:50:19 hey - 22:50:25 hold up I have that link somewhere 22:50:26 lament: Please just remember that you're the other #esoteric contact. ;) 22:50:30 python would fit in better with the bot since it is in python 22:50:33 however 22:50:41 C is maybe best as when I write my BF compiler it will be in C 22:51:11 http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp09275.html?ca=dgr-jw22JavaUrbanLegends 22:51:11 Are you seriously stressed out about making a BF interpreter that's fast enough for industrial use? 22:51:12 that one 22:51:15 pikhq: i already banned some guy who spammed the channel with "Please spam this message" 22:51:19 Yah that one 22:51:33 I call BS on it 22:51:40 0rly? 22:51:44 for rls 22:51:45 !help 22:51:47 dmwit: No 22:51:47 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 22:51:49 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 22:52:00 lament: Domo. 22:52:01 HandOfCode: What seemed off to you? 22:52:10 10 lines vs. 60? 22:52:14 where'd they get that from 22:52:17 how do you optimize a bf interp, anyway 22:52:24 surely the opt. takes longer than just running it 22:52:30 !bf8 ->->-<<[->[->[-]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:52:34 A 22:52:39 o.O 22:52:41 wtf 22:52:46 oh 22:52:46 !bf8 ->->->-<<<[->[->[->[-]<]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:52:47 brainfuck 22:52:49 A 22:53:01 !bf8 ->->->->-<<<< [->[->[->[->[-]<]<]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:53:03 A 22:53:04 HandOfCode: no, the article said that they examined the # of machine instructions (assembly inst.) that each generated for each line of code. 22:53:06 ... 22:53:07 congratulations, IRP is now number 3 in reddit's fp 22:53:14 HandOfCode: Shall I bork your brain some more? 22:53:21 no @_@ 22:53:23 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pfuck-1.1.tar.bz2 22:53:26 !bf8 ->->->->->->-<<<<<< [->[->[->[->[->[->[-]<]<]<]<]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:53:27 A 22:53:30 ... 22:53:30 naringas: not congratulations 22:53:32 do i fail? 22:53:34 naringas: more like ``oh fuck'' 22:53:36 or is it just that fast... 22:53:45 now i'm hoping we get #1 :) 22:53:49 everyone is in #irp 22:53:51 that is good 22:53:56 i guess my note worked 22:54:06 ehird`: aye, but pikhq seems to dislike me, heh. 22:54:09 okay 22:54:13 the IRP page is vandalized again 22:54:13 Overand: What makes you think that? 22:54:19 *wonders* could EgoBot have a BF buffer overun exploit? 22:54:26 by the same guy 22:54:27 -!- PedoBear__ has joined. 22:54:32 lament: revert, ban 22:54:35 the type-o thing, and the 'sam' thing 22:54:37 actually 22:54:39 HandOfCode: Gregor's not that bad of a coder. 22:54:41 just protect the page 22:54:42 are there any esolang admins around? 22:54:42 seriously 22:54:48 i'm not an admin 22:54:54 it's worth a try :) 22:54:57 GregorR: Oy! 22:55:00 -!- Symmetry- has joined. 22:55:04 ok 22:55:05 just revert then 22:55:14 -!- canapay has left (?). 22:55:27 !bf8 ->->->->->->->->->-<<<<<<<<< [->[->[->[->[->[->[->[->[->[-]<]<]<]<]<]<]<]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:55:29 A 22:55:32 B 22:55:35 finally, a delay. 22:55:38 or was that lag? 22:55:45 try again 22:55:52 wtf is that? 22:55:53 we have a base line now we just need to average it out 22:55:54 back down to #4 22:55:55 !bf8 ->->->->->->-<<<<<< [->[->[->[->[->[->[-]<]<]<]<]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:55:55 hi guys, has IRP died out? 22:55:57 A 22:55:57 Gurami: brainfuck, n00b 22:56:00 Symmetry-: try #irp 22:56:03 deffinetly a delay 22:56:04 ok 22:56:07 #irp is dead 22:56:07 :p 22:56:11 !bf8 ->->->->->->->-<<<<<<< [->[->[->[->[->[->[->[-]<]<]<]<]<]<]<] ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 22:56:13 A 22:56:17 nutz 22:56:21 hey 22:56:26 what if it... optimizes? 22:56:31 o.O 22:56:37 GregorR: does it do that? you filthy meanie :< 22:56:51 How much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? 22:57:01 it probably does optimize 22:57:04 <_< 22:57:05 >_> 22:57:08 chuck norris! 22:57:10 since it's a bunch of balanced loops 22:57:18 even a most basic optimizer should be able to catch that 22:57:28 try making them unbalanced somehow 22:57:34 that's pretty easy to optimize, but i don't exactly feel like trying to cheat it :P 22:57:35 hmm 22:57:40 Gurami: 42 wood 22:57:41 yeah, you have a point 22:57:47 shouldn't be hard 22:58:13 sudo make me a sandwich 22:58:19 i'll just make those nested loops in a more generic way 22:58:39 hmm 22:59:00 oklokok: It does optimize. 22:59:11 Not that hard to tell, though. 22:59:12 yeah, i guess that's why ppl say it optimizes. 22:59:14 :D 22:59:15 Just get the tarball. 23:00:16 he he he 23:00:24 found 99 bottles of beer in BF 23:00:33 he he he 23:00:34 how amusing 23:00:35 good for you 23:01:00 that language must be debugging hell 23:01:19 no 23:01:22 it's easy to use really 23:01:27 once you 'get' it 23:02:21 is BF white space sensative? (AKA does it care about newlines) 23:02:26 No, it's not. 23:02:55 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bottles.b My personal version of that program. . . 23:03:28 that is huge 23:03:32 :p 23:03:40 ehird`: I didn't optimise it at all. . . 23:03:55 PEBBLE makes it too easy to make inefficient programs. 23:04:29 I at least have the excuse that that one outputs it without any tricks like "1 bottles". 23:04:33 * HandOfCode wants to see what that would do to egobot 23:04:44 too big for irc 23:04:48 darn 23:04:49 but it would excess flood 23:04:50 !bf8 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bottles.b 23:04:52 or at least, cap it 23:04:55 so it would take a very long time 23:05:07 pikhq: !bf8 doesn't do urls does it 23:05:13 ehird`: All of them do. 23:05:27 I just got some privmsgs from Egobot. 23:05:33 lol 23:05:35 And Egobot is broken. 23:05:39 ? 23:05:42 I'm getting "Take one down, pass it around." 23:05:45 !ps 23:05:49 1 ehird`: bf 23:05:52 2 pikhq: ps 23:05:55 !flush 2 23:06:02 !kill 2 23:06:03 Process 2 killed. 23:06:06 lol 23:06:21 !ps 23:06:22 -!- xbayuldrd has quit. 23:06:23 1 ehird`: bf 23:06:25 2 ehird`: ps 23:06:26 what 23:06:41 !bf +[++] 23:06:41 -!- fmota has changed nick to FMotAFK. 23:06:43 this one idiot keeps vandalizing the page 23:06:47 i guess it's good there's only one 23:07:01 checked to see if he's in the channel? 23:07:02 (cur) (last) 22:06, 19 August 2007 69.118.79.88 (Talk) (restored vandalism) 23:07:45 -!- javallone has joined. 23:07:56 comcast sucks balls~ 23:08:03 they're filterting torrent traffic now 23:08:15 In other news, +>+[-<+>] makes 2. 23:08:17 loads of isps do 23:08:19 !ps 23:08:20 -!- ElbridgeGerry has joined. 23:08:21 1 ehird`: bf 23:08:23 2 ehird`: bf 23:08:24 hee 23:08:26 3 ehird`: ps 23:08:33 egobot is broken~ 23:08:42 are there any admins on the esowiki? 23:09:00 \ 23:09:26 Yes, but I doubt they're here. 23:09:34 -!- Symmetry- has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong"). 23:10:34 ihope is an admin 23:10:36 sigh - http://digg.com/programming/IRP_esoteric_language 23:10:39 keymaker 23:10:43 someone put "gtfo diggers" in the topic 23:10:43 :/ 23:10:46 reddit is bad enough 23:10:49 -!- ElbridgeGerry has quit ("It is now safe to shut down your computer."). 23:11:12 -!- JustinC has joined. 23:11:12 hahaha 23:11:27 ehird`: you made ElbridgeGerry leave :) 23:11:31 :D 23:11:36 -!- javallone has left (?). 23:14:17 -!- floam has joined. 23:14:52 * pikhq groangs 23:14:59 * naringas yawns 23:15:10 * ehird` does the antidigg dance 23:15:12 its like a raindance 23:15:17 but for keeping digg usrs away 23:15:49 -!- meltingwax has joined. 23:15:57 -!- Dybber has joined. 23:16:01 !w 23:16:03 Huh? 23:16:04 -!- itodd__ has joined. 23:16:06 !bf8 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 23:16:09 Hello World! 23:16:13 -!- yaxu has joined. 23:16:15 !who 23:16:16 hmm it worked 23:16:17 Huh? 23:16:20 but took a while o.O 23:16:31 another vandal 23:16:40 this one making edits that seem like they're in good faith 23:16:43 more roosters? 23:16:57 someone please respond to HTTP requests, serving valid HTML of a website about cats 23:16:59 Like, someone in here on a regular basis. 23:17:04 HTTP/1.1 GET / 23:17:18 410 Gone 23:17:22 floam: see #irp 23:17:28 405 Obtain a brain. 23:17:29 EOF 23:17:34 -!- MrMeoff has joined. 23:17:49 lament: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP 23:17:52 there is a part missing 23:17:55 the part with the ERROR 8 23:17:56 what's that? I just clicked a link from reddit and some wiki told me to come here and use this distributed computing machine 23:17:59 DONT_BE_A_DOUCHE 23:18:02 floam: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP 23:18:06 floam: did you read the page? 23:18:08 fuck 23:18:14 floam: i specifically put a bold message up there for a reason 23:18:19 -!- TrwX has joined. 23:18:38 =) 23:18:41 but yeah, #irp 23:18:51 -!- Ksero has joined. 23:18:59 Please, count to 10 23:19:01 i was pretty sure it was there, the guy did two edits almost simultaneously 23:19:14 something in bold says not to use #irp 23:19:14 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | IRP in #irp. 23:19:16 MrMeoff: echo {1..10} 23:19:16 this is all to confusing 23:19:20 s/to/too. 23:19:23 floam: wow 23:19:28 floam: you are a digg refugee aren't you 23:19:36 !bf8 [] 23:19:39 bAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. 23:19:43 floam: sarcasm, dude 23:19:47 no, I was using reddit before it sucked 23:19:47 not me ;) 23:20:00 floam: you probably caused it to suck with your complete lack of understanding of irony 23:20:00 it's just ron paul and kittens now 23:20:01 :P 23:20:11 oh, you're one of those complainers 23:20:29 yes 23:20:39 !ps 23:20:41 1 ehird`: bf 23:20:43 2 HandOfCode: ps 23:20:44 -!- smuckers has left (?). 23:20:45 there is a solution, however: http://ycombinator.com/hackernews.html 23:20:45 Please, tell me who I am. 23:20:57 please, go to #irp 23:21:05 ok ;( *tear* 23:21:06 news.ycombinator kind of sucks 23:21:08 -!- PedoBear__ has changed nick to smuckers. 23:21:12 Upon mentioning Graham, you lose. 23:21:25 -!- MrMeoff has left (?). 23:21:36 naringas: supposedly they'll be launching a reddit-stuck-in-2006 at some point 23:21:42 it is kind of useless right now 23:21:52 Now, fellows, shall we discuss something *esoteric*? 23:21:58 that is their promise 23:22:02 !bf8 +[]] 23:22:07 Perhaps I should give a lecture on PEBBLE or Dimensifuck for the noobs? 23:22:13 hehe 23:22:14 hehe :P 23:22:14 lament: you removed my "cocks" comment :( 23:22:15 :P 23:22:20 pikhq: no - malbolge 23:22:24 ehird`: i think that only encourages people 23:22:28 and get everybody to write a program at the end 23:22:29 lament: true 23:22:30 ehird`: I can only lecture on languages I understand. 23:22:34 !ps 23:22:37 1 ehird`: bf 23:22:39 2 HandOfCode: ps 23:22:40 and then if they don't get it right 23:22:42 kick them 23:22:44 pikhq: just say loads of bullshit 23:22:46 damn it's smart 23:22:46 and include words like "cryptanalysis" 23:22:46 I may be able to lecture on Glass. 23:22:49 -!- relix has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"). 23:22:51 doesn't get stuck in infinite loops 23:23:02 pikhq: use gregor's lecture on glass 23:23:04 it is very good 23:23:09 and any intelligent person would interstand 23:23:16 -!- SomeIdiot has joined. 23:23:18 glass? 23:23:19 !glass {M[m"Hello, redditers!"(_o)O!(_o)o.?]} 23:23:21 Hello, redditers! 23:23:40 redditors 23:23:41 actually 23:23:57 PEBBLE 23:24:07 !glass {M[m<2><2>+(_o)O!(_o)o.?]} 23:24:10 oklokok: What about it? 23:24:15 !bf8 # 23:24:17 0:*0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:24:30 Grr. O.o doesn't much like numbers. 23:24:32 lol it worked 23:24:43 pikhq: on 23:24:44 O.on 23:24:47 pikhq: just praising it. 23:24:49 does numbers 23:25:06 !bf8 # 23:25:07 0:*0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:25:12 current IRP error set: 23:25:12 ya that was me 23:25:13 not you 23:25:18 ERROR 8: DON'T_BE_A_DOUCHE_TO_YOUR_INTERPRETER ERROR 23:25:24 -!- TrwX has quit ("System Failure"). 23:25:31 your mom (division by zero and other impossible things) 23:25:35 go to hell (unreasonable stuff) 23:25:44 !glass {M[m<2><2>+(_o)O!(_o)(on).?]} 23:25:47 2 23:26:00 Grr. 23:26:04 I forgot. 23:26:35 !glass {M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!<2><2>(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]} 23:26:35 !help 23:26:37 floam: you're a pretard too 23:26:38 4 23:26:39 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 23:26:41 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 23:26:43 !bf8 +++>+++<-# 23:26:45 0:*2|3|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:26:52 what? I thought the internet was anonymous 23:26:52 -!- Ilya has joined. 23:26:53 yay 23:26:56 I don't even know what a pretard is 23:27:03 floam: http://programming.reddit.com/info/2gndp/comments/c2gpos 23:27:07 :p 23:27:09 that's some other floam 23:27:13 -!- kpanic has joined. 23:27:14 suuure 23:27:41 !bf8 +++>+++<-.# 23:27:43 0:*2|3|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:27:51 didn't work quite as expected 23:28:02 !i 23:28:10 !bf8 +[>+#] 23:28:12 evil :) 23:28:20 hm what 23:28:24 lol 23:28:54 !bf_txtgen waaa 23:28:57 0:1|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:29:04 oh no 23:29:05 the hell 23:29:05 it is flooding me 23:29:09 LOL 23:29:16 !ps 23:29:32 !bf8 +#+# 23:29:35 uh oh 23:29:41 !ps 23:29:42 I think we broke it 23:29:43 -!- itodd__ has left (?). 23:29:52 -!- meltingwax has left (?). 23:29:56 !flush 23:29:57 egobot has messaged me 20 times 23:29:58 damnit 23:30:19 -!- kpanic has left (?). 23:30:29 why the + inside the loop? 23:30:35 wouldn't +[#] work 23:30:41 no 23:30:43 that wouldn't change 23:30:48 hmmm 23:30:49 oh 23:30:50 and would give up after 255 loops 23:30:51 right 23:30:58 wait no 23:31:00 -!- jamierc has joined. 23:31:00 it wouldn't 23:31:03 but it wouldn't change 23:31:08 :) 23:31:12 !ps 23:31:15 !help 23:31:16 dead? 23:31:17 yeh you broke it 23:31:22 nice ^_^ 23:31:34 poor EgoBot, always dying. 23:31:35 68:1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:31:36 jesus 23:31:44 >>> bf works though :) 23:31:44 68 times 23:31:48 Not hard; killing Egobot is kindof a hobby around here. 23:31:51 i should add # 23:32:04 KajirBot should be in here right now 23:32:04 why does it die? 23:32:06 it would be great advertising 23:32:07 :p 23:32:11 Because we're evil. 23:32:29 kajirbot? 23:32:40 100 times! woo 23:32:48 i need to make a bf_txtgen of my own 23:32:51 HandOfCode: my bot. is a work in progress, but will be comphrenensive when done 23:32:59 HandOfCode: lots and lots of esolang interpreters are planned 23:33:07 ok I'm confused 23:33:13 and some miscellaneous rubbish like .feed where it begs for the food it wants until it gets it 23:33:14 how does 68 not have all 1s? 23:33:19 i have no idea 23:33:21 because the view 23:33:23 moves with the tape 23:33:27 oh 23:33:30 but it is just repeating now 23:33:31 which is odd 23:33:35 woot sliding view 23:33:38 -!- SomeIdiot has left (?). 23:33:53 ha, IRP is #1 in programming.reddit 23:33:55 !kill 0 23:33:58 !bf8 ## 23:34:00 naringas: it's been #1 for hours 23:34:03 naringas: almost #1 in just reddit 23:34:31 -!- Tanner has joined. 23:34:36 !kill 0 23:34:38 !kill 0 23:34:38 !kill 0 23:34:39 that private parking pick is such a photoshop 23:34:39 !kill 0 23:34:40 !kill 1 23:34:41 !kill 1 23:34:41 !kill 1 23:34:42 !kill 1 23:34:43 !kill 1 23:34:46 !kill 2 23:34:48 !kill 3 23:34:48 !kill ehird` 23:34:49 !kill 4 23:34:51 !kill 5 23:34:53 !kill 6 23:34:53 :) 23:34:55 there 23:34:57 if that doesn't get it 23:34:59 nothing will 23:35:02 its still going 23:35:03 someone kill EgoBot 23:35:06 -!- r2q2 has left (?). 23:35:08 LOL 23:35:11 Say "Hello, World!" 23:35:19 eat my shorts 23:35:20 go to hell 23:35:22 or #irp 23:35:26 read wiki pages damnit 23:35:30 read the wiki page!! 23:35:33 Moshi moshi, sekai. 23:36:21 !help 23:36:34 -!- Tanner has left (?). 23:36:41 * naringas mourns egobot, whom I just met 23:37:55 he shall be reborn, don't worry 23:38:11 not sure if you'll be here to see that, though :P 23:38:40 ooh, i might comeback in the future, after the hype 23:38:48 not too much hype here 23:38:50 !quit 23:38:54 the hype is in #irp 23:39:12 getting quiet there too 23:39:17 -!- Ksero has left (?). 23:39:21 i'm surprised to see people are still hanging in here 23:39:51 As am I. 23:39:51 SOMEONE KILL EGOBOT 23:39:52 ARRGH 23:40:14 GregorR: You need a kill-switch on that. 23:40:42 GregorR: please make EgoBot immortal 23:41:13 shouldn't be that hard to do, and we'd avoid all the sorrow 23:42:15 -!- nefastei has joined. 23:42:18 hmm... if someone is fluent at their client's scripting langs, please tell me what time zone all these ppl are on 23:42:18 oklokok: that sounds like an IRP request. I will have to ban you. 23:42:25 OMG 23:42:36 lament: please do not ban me 23:42:39 hahaha 23:42:47 is GregorR even here? 23:42:48 -!- sk1tch has quit. 23:42:48 i had to do that 23:42:51 GregorR: yes 23:43:03 Probably at work. 23:43:08 Or something. 23:43:14 Maybe even a life? 23:43:22 haha 23:43:23 no way 23:43:47 Just on a different virtual desktop. 23:43:50 Preparing a presentation :P 23:43:51 !flush 23:44:04 GregorR: its still going damnit 23:44:07 its pming me 23:44:09 GregorR: what fales with EgoBot? 23:44:14 445 times by now 23:44:15 ehird`: Haha. 23:44:16 seriously 23:44:21 450:1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 23:44:24 all that changes is the number 23:44:26 damned infinite loops 23:44:29 ehird`: Haha. 23:44:34 No such process! 23:44:36 No such process! 23:44:37 !flush 1 23:44:38 !flush 2 23:44:39 !flush 3 23:44:40 !flush 4 23:44:40 !flush 5 23:44:48 * GregorR doesn't really remember its commands :P 23:44:52 !help 23:44:55 it stoppped 23:44:57 thank GODDDD 23:44:58 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 23:45:00 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 23:45:05 GregorR: you're welcome. 23:45:20 !qbf ++++++[THIS IS A QUANTUM BOX] 23:45:22 oklokok: I /msg'd it !help 23:45:38 GregorR: now try to make me believe that. 23:45:39 -!- Ben` has joined. 23:45:50 !qbf ,%.[,%.] 23:45:54 !ps 23:45:56 1 ehird`: qbf 23:45:58 2 ehird`: qbf 23:46:00 3 ehird`: ps 23:46:01 !i 1 hello\n 23:46:01 Please say "Hello, World!" 23:46:06 :) 23:46:08 Ben`: Please go to hell or #irp 23:46:23 Ben`: Mi malsxatas vin. 23:46:30 that's not how you spell "Hello, World!" :( 23:46:34 -!- jamierc has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:46:41 No, but it is how you spell "I don't like you." 23:46:42 but it is! 23:46:43 i am not an irp interpreter here 23:46:46 #irp i am 23:46:50 ! 23:46:54 Huh? 23:47:07 !i 23:47:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:47:48 pikhq: was that esperanto? 23:47:55 Yeah. 23:48:01 bsmntbombdood: Welcome to Malebolge. 23:48:06 esperanto x == lojban x? 23:48:18 an evil throat sound 23:48:21 oklokok: No. 23:48:23 malebolge? 23:48:27 oklokok: also known as Bach 23:48:30 is that like sexy guys programming in malboge? 23:48:33 esperanto and lojban are basically the same language! 23:48:38 malebolge is a layer of hell 23:48:38 oh, german indeed has that 23:48:39 - with the e 23:49:00 lament: really? 23:49:05 "sx" == "?". 23:49:16 pikhq: then what is it? 23:49:20 Basically, a way of ASCIIing the Esperanto circumflexes. 23:49:24 hell is in the 666th recursive VM 23:49:29 hmm 23:49:47 -!- nefastei has quit ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)"). 23:49:50 so it's the english "sh", kinda? 23:50:00 -!- yaxu has left (?). 23:50:07 Yeah. 23:50:21 That's actually how "sx" is pronounced, actually. 23:50:24 mal=bad, but sxatas? 23:50:31 To like. 23:50:37 Well, present tense. 23:50:37 hmm... from where is that? 23:50:43 No idea. 23:50:44 or is it from anywhere 23:50:52 i guess that's not all that crucial 23:52:17 i need to learn esperanto 23:52:20 and japanese 23:52:22 and russian 23:52:24 and lojban 23:52:26 Jes. 23:52:29 hai 23:52:31 -!- Jenks has joined. 23:52:34 coi ro do 23:52:36 don't learn russian 23:52:40 lament: why? 23:52:40 nobody speaks it! 23:52:57 because it's too difficult 23:53:00 i learn for my own amusement 23:53:07 also, difficult? 23:53:14 yes. Very . 23:53:21 all languages are equally difficult, says i! 23:53:27 but then again, i say a lot of things 23:53:43 i want to continue implang 23:53:45 it was nice 23:53:51 maybe i shall rename it and pick it up again 23:53:53 -!- Zephyroth has joined. 23:53:54 the planned one 23:56:04 yes, all languages are equally difficult, except Russian, which is more difficult. 23:56:35 and chinese which is even more difficult 23:56:43 -!- ekrpat has joined. 23:57:19 i doubt it 23:59:01 as far as i know, different pitches have different meanings in chinese 23:59:05 lament: do you learn russian? 23:59:07 *study 23:59:23 naringas: how does that make it harder? 23:59:47 it reciprocates by not having a lot of exceptions to rules 2007-08-20: 00:00:22 the same word, or very similar sounding ones have completely different meanings depending on the pitch 00:00:34 oklokok: i'm a native speaker 00:00:40 naringas: tones, not pitches 00:00:50 writing 00:00:59 is that harder than say, english, that does *not* have those distinct tones, but still has 5 meanings for every word`? 00:01:01 *-` 00:01:11 oklokok: no, it's just unusual for a foreigner 00:01:32 makes it harder to learn for a foreginer, to listen 00:01:34 i don't believe pronunciation can be hard 00:01:48 -!- Jenks has quit. 00:01:49 -!- Zephyroth has quit ("Leaving"). 00:01:52 hmm, ishakul or whatever 00:01:56 is a 2-d written languge 00:01:57 ithkuil 00:02:00 no 00:02:00 what about 3d languages? 00:02:03 -!- Ilya has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]"). 00:02:04 that could be interesting 00:02:05 ilaksh is a 2d lang 00:02:09 ok 00:02:11 ithkuil is 1d methinks 00:02:19 ilaksh then 00:02:22 what about 3d languages? 00:02:24 but not sure... ilaksh is definately 2d anyway 00:02:24 that could be interesting 00:02:37 lament: you live in america though? 00:02:42 each side could represent a different variation on a word 00:02:55 this would make phrases very short, if a little complex in visual form 00:03:35 oklokok: canada 00:03:49 i recall you talking about russian sometime, don't remember the context right now though 00:03:55 -!- FunnyMan3595 has joined. 00:03:58 i should check the logs 00:04:16 ok, i had to search for it but there is this language in the amazonian jungle, the one with virtually no numbers 00:04:37 that one has to be harder than russian, very very few non-native speakers have ever learned it 00:04:52 piraha? 00:05:08 i would imagine it's really simple if it doesn't even have numbers 00:05:09 yeah that one 00:05:14 but hard to learn 00:05:23 How's about Toki Pona? 00:05:25 -!- c4st has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:05:25 if you said it was *easier* to learn than most languages, i might even agree 00:05:31 but harder? lol 00:05:33 ...yeah :) 00:05:48 woo, another dinner cooked without disaster or serious injury 00:05:54 -!- fruktq has joined. 00:05:58 pikhq: one of the goals of toki pona is being easy to learn... i would be surprised if it were heard to learn :) 00:06:01 *hard 00:06:20 thing is, it is not exactly simpler, it is very different 00:06:25 -!- Dybber has left (?). 00:06:32 thus, the unfamiliarity of it makes it harder to learn 00:07:09 lament: wanna teach me to pronounce russian and prove me wrong in saying it can be done? 00:07:17 toki pona is easy to learn 00:07:22 i haven't tried, but i have looked at it 00:07:24 and it looks trivial 00:07:40 my sentence was a bit obscure, gotta admit. 00:08:23 i'm one of the few fluent toki pona speakers, by the way :) 00:08:38 write something 00:08:43 naringas: very many languages are very different from the ones you know. 00:09:02 -!- zapbeeb has joined. 00:09:04 lament: this one is even more different that the ones you know 00:09:07 (i'm not saying please so in fear of getting banned) 00:09:22 *-so 00:09:23 ... 00:09:28 lament: Prove it? 00:09:33 lament: you are fluent in toki pona? 00:09:37 lament: cool 00:09:38 lament: write "roses are red" in toki pona 00:09:40 lament: how long did that take 00:10:23 oklokok: kasi li loje 00:10:30 li = be? 00:10:34 oh, and besides Pirah is also tonal 00:10:50 !bf8 ## 00:10:54 0:*0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 00:10:55 is that kasi=roses, li=be, loje=red? 00:10:56 http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/16/070416fa_fact_colapinto/?printable=true very long 00:11:18 i gotta check out toki pona too, i guess... 00:11:21 -!- zapbeeb has quit (Client Quit). 00:11:26 lament: say "roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base, are belong to you" 00:11:30 non-words and broken grammar in one! 00:11:33 although it is lame 00:11:42 lament: i can has toki pona tutorial? 00:11:49 http://bayimg.com/kafOhAAbo <--- look, it's meeee! 00:12:01 -!- chromakode has joined. 00:12:05 tokipona.org 00:12:33 bsmntbombdood: cool :P 00:12:35 "Toki Pona is a minimal language that focuses on the good things in life." 00:12:47 i might not actually be fluent anymore, i haven't spoken any in a year or so 00:13:00 lament: well can you translate that poem? :p 00:13:04 i was going to learn toki pona 00:13:07 added on my 2-page TODO list. 00:13:12 toki pona, that is 00:13:14 bsmntbombdood: it looks dark and cold! :p 00:13:35 ehird`: dark, yes, cold, no, it's 100 ish degrees 00:13:49 100 whats? 00:13:59 okay, then annoyingly stuffy 00:14:02 :p 00:14:08 also wet! do i get a prize 00:14:11 kasi loje li #FF0000. kasi laso li #0000FF. tomo mi ale li tomo sina. 00:14:11 kelvinish, celciusish or fahrenheitish? 00:14:19 what do you think? 00:14:20 celcius! 00:14:25 100 degrees celcius! 00:14:35 kelvin, i'd be dead, celciuous, i'd be dead 00:14:39 lament: did you also translate the grammar error? 00:14:41 lament: How long did you spend learning Toki Pona? 00:14:41 lament: hmm, what about the break between "all my base" and "are belon to you" 00:14:44 bsmntbombdood: you are dead-- 00:14:49 *belong 00:14:59 bsmntbombdood: you'd not be dead @ celcius 1000 00:15:01 *100 00:15:06 oklokok: yes you would 00:15:08 (you would be dead @ 1000) 00:15:11 really? 00:15:15 oklokok: dude... 00:15:22 okay, there's water. 00:15:27 that would kill ya 00:15:29 even 30 celcius is uncomfortable for me 00:15:31 also the walls 00:15:37 40, i'd run for shade 00:15:41 the air wouldn't, of course 00:15:45 50, i'd start hallucinating probably 00:15:48 100? i'd die 00:15:53 ehird`: have you tried sauna? 00:15:59 -!- leo__ has joined. 00:16:03 120 is trivial stuff 00:16:07 saunas don't get up to 100C 00:16:17 HandOfCode: noob saunas don't. 00:16:24 -_- 00:16:25 :P 00:16:35 oklokok: you'd like to be outside at the same temperature which water boils? 00:16:35 the human body will die if the core temp varies even 2C 00:16:50 you will die in temps exceeding 60C 00:16:55 wood ovens usually do 80-90 at max, but some do over 100 easily 00:16:58 the body can't get rid of the heat fast enough 00:17:11 an electric oven can almost always do 100 00:17:11 HandOfCode: over 2c? 00:17:16 i didn't know my insides were so cold 00:17:17 :p 00:17:23 the boddiers core temp is 36 00:17:25 you die at 28 00:17:27 38 00:17:32 haha 00:17:37 100. 00:17:38 ah 00:17:38 -!- naringas has left (?). 00:17:39 core 00:17:47 "varies even" 00:17:49 not "is" 00:18:09 you people really think a human can't handle 100 degrees celcius if it's just the air that's that hot? 00:18:10 you certainly will not die at 38 00:18:14 -!- leo__ has quit (Client Quit). 00:18:29 "Under many circumstances, temperatures approaching and exceeding 100 °C (212 °F) would be completely intolerable. Saunas overcome this problem by controlling the humidity." 00:18:30 lament: when you have a fever, are also your insides that hot? 00:18:35 "under many circumstances" 00:18:37 i don't know anything about anatomy 00:18:40 so i'd say 100c is dangerous in the air 00:19:00 the water makes you feel the hot 00:19:03 I'd say that being sufficiently hot to *boil* is dangerous. 00:19:11 if it's dry, 100 doesn't feel that much 00:19:20 pikhq: indeed 00:19:30 mmm boiled humans 00:19:33 Odd. I could've sworn 100C was sufficient to cause burns. 00:19:52 100F, on the other hand, is just a bit on the hot side. 00:19:55 lament: fixed poem please 00:19:58 ? :p 00:20:14 -!- irrelative has quit ("Leaving"). 00:20:16 100C will cause burns 00:20:21 -_- 00:20:26 ehird`: too lazy 00:20:27 100F is "fuck this is miserable" 00:20:33 pikhq: therefore, F is much safer than C :) 00:20:33 100C is "fuck i'm dead" 00:20:48 -!- fruktq has left (?). 00:20:49 100C isn't hot, you're just noobs 00:20:50 100K is "f-------" 00:20:52 i gotta go anyway 00:20:59 or maybe even just "f--" 00:21:02 have fun, but not too much fun -> 00:21:04 oklokok go breath in some of the air directly above boiling water 00:21:21 HandOfCode: as i said, that only applied if it's the air that's hot. 00:21:26 I will now state that if you take said action it is out of your own stupidity and I am not legaly liable 00:21:31 HandOfCode: there's no air above boiling water. There's just steam. 00:21:37 ... 00:21:39 LOL 00:21:40 also, i do cook my own food 00:21:42 proove that 00:21:42 i do that often 00:21:50 "no air".... 00:21:52 <_< 00:22:00 just steam would be water you retard 00:22:10 HandOfCode: no 00:22:11 no, steam is not water 00:22:12 steam is vaporized water which means it's mixed with air 00:22:21 ... 00:22:23 :DD 00:22:31 cretin -_- 00:22:32 HandOfCode: correct, steam is vaporized water, which means water is gas form 00:22:35 steam can't be just water? 00:22:37 *in gas form 00:22:43 HandOfCode: nothing to do with air 00:22:47 you can have steam in a vacuum 00:22:51 there is air above boiling water 00:22:58 IRP at #2 on reddit 00:23:04 woohoo! 00:23:31 hold your hand above 100C air for a few seconds 00:23:32 you will burn 00:23:35 I gaurentee it 00:23:43 haha 00:23:45 if it's really dry air, i don't think so 00:23:50 -_- 00:23:53 i've really been in a sauna in 120 degrees. 00:23:53 but i'm not sure 00:23:55 air can transfer heat plenty fast 00:23:59 120F 00:24:07 120 celcius 00:24:11 oklokok: yeah - but you're not just blasted 100c air 00:24:13 i don't know fahrenheit 00:24:15 you would boil 00:24:17 there are various controlling methods done 00:24:19 120F is ok in a sauna 00:24:24 ehird`: what exactly? 00:24:26 in open air, yeah right 00:24:26 your body can't transfer heat to a hotter area 00:24:33 heat moves to colder areas 00:24:34 oklokok: I doubt that you hit 120C. 00:24:35 AKA your body 00:24:41 120f is kinda cold for a sauna 00:24:49 pikhq: that's rare in a sauna, true, but those exist. 00:25:02 oklokok: 120c does sound very very hot, are you sure the air throughout the sauna was that temperature? Maybe the temperature was measured close to the heat source? 00:25:12 no 00:25:27 it's a standard competition heat 00:25:42 competition? 00:25:45 competition?> 00:25:46 _sauna_ competition? 00:25:47 is that like 00:25:50 who can stay in the longest? 00:25:54 Extreme sauna? 00:25:58 i haven't competed, but i used to do winter swimming 00:25:59 Skateboarding in a sauna? 00:26:12 wtf sauna competition? 00:26:17 i know ppl who've been in the world championchips 00:26:23 in sauna bathin 00:26:25 *bathing 00:26:27 hahahahahahaha 00:26:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna 00:26:33 :P 00:26:34 i see a future x-game 00:26:46 i don't remember if 120 is the heat, but it'd definately over 100 00:26:51 "Under many circumstances, temperatures approaching and exceeding 100 °C (212 °F) would be completely intolerable. Saunas overcome this problem by controlling the humidity." 00:26:55 which is exactly what i said 00:27:02 i don't understand that 00:27:10 "by controlling the humidity"? 00:27:21 water is thrown on the oven so you feel the heat 00:27:35 oklokok: saunas are very humid 00:27:36 err 00:27:38 i mean dry :) 00:27:40 if you didn't add humidity, it wouldn't feel that hot 00:27:47 no, that's the point 00:27:50 yes 00:27:57 if you threw enough water on the oven for the air to be at _normal_ humidity 00:28:00 you would probably die 00:28:10 or at least get massive burns 00:28:25 okay... why does the humidity drop when you heat the sauna? 00:28:44 i don't know enough physics i guess 00:28:50 oklokok: that's what "relative" in "relative humidity" means 00:28:57 ah, that stuff 00:29:33 anyway, a sauna is just heated up to 80-100, and water is constantly thrown on the oven to make it humid enough 00:29:39 humid enough to feel hot 00:29:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_humidity 00:29:52 the relative humidity keeps getting lower, but the dew point stays the same temperature 00:30:09 we'll just throw oklokok into a pool of thermite and be done with it 00:30:34 (from the "that's what i like about these electric ovens" department) 00:30:46 going in sauna and then in freezing cold water is always fun 00:31:29 lament: i don't exactly feel like learning that now :P 00:32:09 oklokok: what does Jos ei viina, terva tai sauna auta, tauti on kuolemaksi. mean? 00:32:24 wikipedia translates it as If booze, tar or the sauna won't help, the illness is fatal. 00:32:27 what's booze? 00:32:33 if liquor, tar or sauna won't help, the decease will kill you 00:32:45 booze = alcohol 00:32:57 tar = smoke? 00:33:00 viina is strong alcohol, to be spesific 00:33:12 tar = tar... 00:33:18 i don't get it 00:33:22 why tar? 00:33:26 not sure. 00:33:28 what does that refer to? 00:33:35 tar. 00:33:35 if you're drunk, don't go in a sauna because you'll die? 00:33:41 but not sure what you do with it 00:33:59 bsmntbombdood: no, if you're sick, try those, if they don't help, you're a goner 00:34:06 bsmntbombdood: well, obviously "if alcohol or a sauna doesn't help", oh dear 00:34:15 and 00:34:20 tar was used in traditional finnish medicine 00:34:24 oh i see 00:34:24 yeah 00:34:28 but don't know how 00:34:48 -!- s|k has joined. 00:35:01 wish i had a sauna here to prove this to myself 00:35:17 i'm starting to doubt my memory. 00:36:04 lol, fins are awesome 00:36:09 saunas are cool 00:36:15 bsmntbombdood: ? 00:36:15 if you sick you drink and go in a sauna 00:36:19 sure 00:36:21 what else 00:36:28 -!- ElbridgeGerry has joined. 00:36:42 that's the traditional finnish way to deal with everything 00:36:52 and eat tar. 00:36:55 doesn't exactly apply these days of course 00:37:07 traditions die 00:37:18 lament: not exactly :p 00:37:35 tar like the stuff roads are made out of? 00:37:40 or pine tar? 00:37:42 or what? 00:37:56 -!- r3m0t has joined. 00:38:20 aha: "Wood tar is microbicidial" 00:38:29 that's what they're talking about 00:39:41 i hate it when i'm just about to leave, and someone says something to me 00:39:52 and it takes me 10 min to realize i was supposed to go 00:40:09 * oklokok retries -> 00:40:38 oklokok: Hey. 00:40:55 lament: Please print "Hello, world!" 00:41:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:41:13 oklokok: by the way 00:41:16 -!- naringas has joined. 00:41:21 Eidolos: i don't have a printing press 00:41:21 oklokok: are you sure you got up to 150c? 00:41:22 giving birth in a sauna? 00:41:24 * ehird` is just kidding now 00:41:24 :p 00:41:34 Welcome to the place. There's things. 00:41:47 bsmntbombdood: that's not that common :P 00:41:53 but i hear ppl do that 00:42:03 crazy finns 00:42:23 Welcome to the Museum of Idiots. 00:43:18 says the guy who posted IRP on digg? 00:43:35 I'm here, aren't I? 00:44:12 i'm not sure if you're exactly museum quality 00:44:16 http://www.saunaheinola.com/ <<< this is in finnish, but it seems the temperature is 110C 00:44:18 what's the shortest way to get the first byte == 47 in BF? 00:44:43 "30 sekunnin vlein noin 1/2 litraa vett kiukaalle." 1/2 liters of water on the oven every 30 sec 00:45:03 -!- krat0s98 has joined. 00:45:22 what's 'heinola'? :) 00:45:30 it's a place in finland 00:45:51 ideas? 00:45:56 lament: The location of They Might Be Giant's secret underground headquarters. 00:46:21 HandOfCode: i think there was a page somewhere trying to find the shortest ways to express numbers 00:46:37 Could someone please tell me how bad the hordes of redditors are today? 00:46:58 Who put the alphabet in alphabetical order? 00:47:00 krat0s98: Horrid. You included. 00:47:26 pikhq: Yeahp, and that was all I wanted to ask. You fine people have a nice evening xD 00:47:41 * ElbridgeGerry has a nice evening on request. 00:47:44 HandOfCode: >-[<->+++++]<---- 00:47:50 -!- krat0s98 has quit (Client Quit). 00:48:02 256-wrap? 00:48:06 Yeah. 00:48:21 that's so cheating :) 00:48:24 what's shortest on bignums? 00:48:26 but cute 00:49:01 blargh, school in 5 hours :\ 00:49:06 ...oh, yeah, the away thing -> 00:49:11 ok I see how it works 00:49:12 nice one 00:49:20 dewys device 00:49:27 oklokok: but 00:49:28 :p 00:49:35 lament: That's what PEBBLE does. 00:49:38 -!- tezlo has quit ("drugs"). 00:49:51 -!- Ben` has quit ("Leaving"). 00:50:05 -!- naringas has left (?). 00:50:06 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----. 00:50:09 -!- naringas has joined. 00:50:10 / 00:50:16 darn 00:52:55 >>> bf w66-. 00:52:55 A 00:53:07 >>> bf w48-. 00:53:08 / 00:53:21 that's a pretty easy way to make 47 00:55:07 -!- ElbridgeGerry has changed nick to Somebody. 00:55:18 -!- Somebody has changed nick to ElbridgeGerry. 00:55:21 hmm 00:55:22 -!- r3m0t has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]"). 00:55:38 i'll add ;: 00:56:00 someone keep me updated if irp gets #1 00:56:13 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:56:21 -!- ekrpat has quit. 00:56:24 -!- naringas has left (?). 00:57:08 for gods' sake we need more admins on the wiki 00:58:06 somebody hack 69.118.79.88 and make his computer electrocute him. 00:58:12 spam? 00:58:22 vandalism on [IRP] 00:58:35 Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm the orange peel. 00:58:49 -!- conservohippie has joined. 00:59:25 -!- johnjaco1 has joined. 01:00:05 And I'm back in the USSR. 01:00:29 please iterate over members of the channel and op the user with nick matching "johnjaco1" 01:00:38 Go to hell. 01:00:42 ERROR CODE 1 01:00:54 johnjaco1: read the topic. 01:00:56 hmm... 01:01:06 >>> bf ++++++++: 01:01:24 >>> bf ++++++++: 01:01:24 8 01:01:35 cool, almost flawless victory 01:01:36 well fix the wiki then 01:01:44 that reddit linked to 01:01:45 >>> bf ;: <<< 5 01:01:46 5 01:01:48 wow 01:01:59 either i or python really owns. 01:02:23 python! 01:02:54 lament: don't take this away from me, that wasn't *that* trivial an addition 01:03:08 -!- r2q2 has joined. 01:03:23 Heh. IRP is #3 on the reddit main page. 01:03:43 wtf? 01:03:43 -!- dtbelobrown has joined. 01:03:51 but i gotta go have sex with my coffee, cya (prolly in a minute, hopefully tomorrow) 01:03:52 -> 01:03:59 oh fantastic 01:04:24 ABSOLUTELY CHARMING 01:04:52 holy shit there's 55 people in here 01:04:55 O.o 01:05:17 the worst has mostly stopped when we redirected people to #irp 01:05:46 but keeping the wiki in shape is a bit of a problem as there're no admins around 01:05:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:06:05 when did this happen? 01:06:25 bsmntbombdood: http://reddit.com 01:06:33 i know 01:06:35 a few hours ago 01:07:21 21 people in #irp, and it was completely empty earlier today :) 01:07:46 its not nearly as entertaining as it sounds 01:08:13 Highly variable. 01:08:37 johnjaco1: Go to hell. ERROR CODE 1 01:08:50 =p 01:09:22 fuck you, new guys 01:09:48 bsmntbombdood: Error: Lack of desire. 01:10:11 bsmntbombdood: There aren't any sex channels on freenode. 01:10:39 -!- Trey has joined. 01:10:40 efnet then. the further the better. 01:11:06 -!- Trey has changed nick to W|cked. 01:12:57 -!- johnjaco1 has quit ("this sounded way cooler on your wiki, please get a life u sad fuckers"). 01:13:35 haha 01:14:09 "this sounded way cooler on your wiki, please get a life u sad fuckers" Did this guy come from MySpace News? 01:14:31 No, worse. Fox News. 01:14:34 digg, probably ;) 01:15:54 Nope, I made sure to get to the story before a popular submitted did. 01:16:03 *submitter 01:16:32 -!- conservohippie has quit. 01:18:08 oh wow, somebody's impersonating me on the wiki now 01:18:53 sweet! 01:19:13 Please indicate whether this message is being understood by the interpreter. :) 01:19:23 I had a guy impersonate me on Reddit once. Major ego trip. 01:19:51 haha 01:19:59 I would have a major ego trip if someone _knew who I was_ on Reddit :P 01:20:04 much less impersonated me 01:20:34 whoah, didn't you die in 1814? 01:21:12 JustinC: Well, I recognize your nick now that you've said something memorable, and I'm frequently on reddit, so feel free to have a major ego trip. 01:21:28 yeah but this isn't my reddit nick :P 01:21:58 I forgot the password to my old reddit nick ("JustinC"), but I had never associated it with an email account, and none of the people at Reddit respond to my requests to help me get a password to it :| 01:22:23 Alexis sent me a message saying something like "sure, i'll help you out pronto" and nothing ever came of it :( 01:22:40 JustinC: So, are you JustinD now? 01:23:29 Haha.... or JustinC++ :) 01:23:36 "Xiphorian" is my nick at the moment 01:24:05 oh, i see it now 01:24:23 smuckers: so, please explain why you insist on vandalizing our wiki. 01:25:00 intense boredom 01:25:19 smuckers: And vandalism helps? 01:25:36 no, i still feel so empty inside 01:26:01 maybe a cock in you would fill you up 01:26:06 yeah, that happens when people lie around the internet just because they have nothing better to do and no friends :( 01:26:14 i wish i had friends :( 01:26:18 happened to me while I was in high school :D 01:26:23 I learned programming instead... 01:26:27 yes, we all wish you had friends, too. 01:26:27 -!- JustinC has changed nick to jcc. 01:26:55 so, where are the admins and their b&hammer already? 01:28:03 smuckers: Well, if it doesn't help, then it shouldn't hurt to switch to the "light" version: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox 01:28:38 k 01:33:35 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament. 01:33:42 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*n=email@*.dyn.optonline.net. 01:34:23 that's perhaps not the mask i actually wanted to use 01:34:24 -!- Administrator has joined. 01:34:37 -!- Administrator has changed nick to Rory. 01:36:41 -!- FMotAFK has changed nick to FMota. 01:36:53 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:37:03 any regulars around? 01:37:08 No. 01:38:17 -!- Rory has quit (Client Quit). 01:40:03 -!- jix__ has joined. 01:40:25 -!- ElbridgeGerry has left (?). 01:40:28 -!- not_smuckers has joined. 01:41:44 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*n=email@*.suomi.net. 01:42:05 this is getting vaguely entertaining 01:42:35 it is? 01:44:09 no, not really 01:44:21 -!- e0\m2x has joined. 01:44:22 but at least i get to kickban people 01:44:25 doesn't happen very often 01:45:13 oh WOW 01:45:23 non-admins are allowed to move pages? that's bad. 01:46:07 mediawiki: elegant software for a more civilized age 01:46:52 the software is great, we just need more admins 01:47:21 * FMota is about to create a language called abdmal 01:48:04 just need to figure out the syntax now 01:51:39 does egobot interpret morse code? 01:53:07 -!- Snurglewozzle has joined. 01:53:55 -!- FMota has left (?). 01:55:20 -!- lament has set channel mode: +o bsmntbombdood. 01:55:24 ok i'm away 01:55:55 -!- Henrix has joined. 01:56:36 ahh 01:56:40 duff's device 01:56:40 my bad 01:58:16 -!- Manos has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:59:09 -!- sonofslim has joined. 01:59:47 -!- sonofslim has quit (Client Quit). 02:00:42 studying grammar in the night isn't all that fruitful 02:00:48 i read 20 pages in an hour :P 02:04:18 Please say "Hello World" 02:04:29 eat my shorts 02:05:18 "(lament) oh wow, somebody's impersonating me on the wiki now" whut 8| 02:05:45 mode: (lament) sets mode (+b *!*n=email@*.suomi.net) <<< suomi == finland, great advertising :P 02:09:52 what happened to the wiki 02:13:01 if i didn't know better, i'd say my throat hurt 02:13:11 wiki? seems fine 02:13:14 -!- jsquared has joined. 02:13:30 -!- esc209 has joined. 02:13:32 -!- jsquared has left (?). 02:16:02 -!- ozzilee has joined. 02:16:28 -!- ozzilee has quit (Client Quit). 02:16:54 -!- casey_ has joined. 02:17:12 j 02:17:40 Please, someone explain the advantages of this language. 02:17:54 your mom? 02:18:10 read the wiki 02:19:07 casey_: the greatest advantage of this language is an interpreter that won't run your code can redirect you to an interpreter that will 02:19:24 Go to hell or goto #irp, as ehird` would say. 02:19:31 ^_^ 02:19:36 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----. 02:19:38 / 02:23:18 HandOfCode: Now get it to print /quit ;-) 02:23:41 wouldn't work 02:24:16 sure it would. 02:24:21 it would print /quit. 02:24:27 and thus work 02:24:29 -!- Henrix has left (?). 02:24:34 -!- casey_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]"). 02:24:40 one down, 25 to go 02:24:50 who the hell reddited #esoteric ? 02:25:08 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----.>-[<+>+++++]<----. 02:25:10 / 02:25:14 o.O 02:25:26 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----.>-[<+>++++++]<----. 02:25:42 oh 02:25:43 !bf_txtgen /quit 02:25:44 it broke 02:25:49 !pd 02:25:51 !ps 02:25:54 1 HandOfCode: bf8 02:25:56 2 ehird`: qbf 02:25:58 3 oklokok: bf_txtgen 02:26:00 4 oklokok: ps 02:26:24 68 +++++++++++++++[>+++>+++++++>+++++++>+<<<<-]>++.>++++++++.++++.>.<-. [220] 02:26:52 !bf8 +++++++++++++++[>+++>+++++++>+++++++>+<<<<-]>++.>++++++++.++++.>.<-. 02:26:54 /quit 02:26:54 !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++>+++++++>+++++++>+<<<<-]>++.>++++++++.++++.>.<-. 02:26:56 /quit 02:26:57 yeah 02:27:45 >>> quit 02:27:46 Quitting feature to be added later. 02:27:52 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----.>-[<+>++++++]<----. 02:27:56 why doesn't that work? 02:28:07 >>> quit 02:28:07 You wish. 02:28:39 or, even better: 02:28:39 >>> quit 02:29:03 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----#>-[<+>++++++]<----# 02:29:17 !bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----#>-[<+>++++++]<---- 02:29:21 !ps 02:29:24 1 HandOfCode: bf8 02:29:26 2 ehird`: qbf 02:29:28 3 HandOfCode: bf8 02:29:28 oh 02:29:30 4 oklokok: bf8 02:29:32 5 oklokok: bf8 02:29:32 see 02:29:34 mine breaks it 02:29:34 6 oklokok: ps 02:29:36 it's just borked bf 02:29:47 -!- Paczesiowa has joined. 02:30:03 !kill4 02:30:05 !kill 4 02:30:06 Huh? 02:30:08 Process 4 killed. 02:30:12 !kill 4 02:30:14 Process 4 killed. 02:30:15 !ps 02:30:18 1 HandOfCode: bf8 02:30:18 !kill self 02:30:20 No such process! 02:30:27 !kill 1 02:30:28 Process 1 killed. 02:30:30 / 02:30:47 ! +[>+] 02:30:49 what's "!bf8 >-[<->+++++]<----.>-[<+>++++++]<----." supposed to do? 02:30:50 Huh? 02:30:57 ! +[>+#] 02:31:00 Huh? 02:31:01 hard to fix if i don't know 02:31:07 !bf8 +[>+#] 02:31:12 0:1|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 02:31:20 !kill 1 02:31:22 Process 1 killed. 02:31:32 HandOfCode: whuz that supposed to be? 02:31:35 still going 02:31:39 !p 02:31:40 !ps 02:31:42 Huh? 02:31:44 1 oklokok: p 02:31:46 2 ehird`: qbf 02:31:48 3 HandOfCode: bf8 02:31:50 4 oklokok: ps 02:31:52 5 oklokok: bf8 02:32:00 hmmm 02:32:00 -!- Paczesiowa has quit (Client Quit). 02:32:01 idea! 02:32:02 !kill 5 02:32:04 Process 5 killed. 02:32:09 !kill 4 02:32:10 !kill 3 02:32:10 !kill 2 02:32:11 !kill 1 02:32:12 Process 2 killed. 02:32:14 Process 1 killed. 02:32:24 bedtime; g'nite folx! 02:32:29 nyte 02:32:47 -!- HoopyCat has left (?). 02:32:53 HandOfCode: what is that supposed to be, really? 02:32:54 !bf_txtgen !bf8 02:33:01 pff 02:33:02 fine 02:33:14 what's what supposed to be? 02:33:20 52 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++><<<<-]>.>-.++++.>+. [431] 02:33:30 !ps 02:33:34 1 HandOfCode: ps 02:33:40 !kill 1 02:33:42 Process 1 killed. 02:33:48 !flush 1 02:33:49 !flush 2 02:33:52 !flush 3 02:33:53 !flush 4 02:33:54 !flush 5 02:34:03 !bf_txtgen !bf8 02:34:34 52 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++><<<<-]>.>-.++++.>+. [78] 02:35:15 !bf8 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++><<<<-]>.>-.++++.>+. 02:35:18 !bf8 02:35:25 darn 02:35:27 it's smart 02:35:35 !bf8 02:36:12 !bf_txtgen !bf8 # 02:36:46 61 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>-.++++.>+.<<-.+++. [204] 02:37:01 !bf8 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>-.++++.>+.<<-.+++. 02:37:04 !bf8 # 02:37:17 whatcha cooking, quine loop? 02:37:39 was seeing if it would do resursive commands 02:37:41 but apparently not 02:37:51 -!- sk1tch has joined. 02:37:53 nah, almost no bot does that 02:38:02 because it'd be too easy to quine loop them 02:38:36 ololobot does bf too, and also a few other langs, you can try making one :P 02:38:44 loop, i mean 02:38:48 HandOfCode: All you need is a second copy of EgoBot hanging around. 02:39:53 actually, i'd be verrry impressed if you'd fit a bf quine loop in irc messages :P 02:40:17 -!- Snurglewozzle has changed nick to smuckers. 02:40:58 What is ololobot's help command? Or, if you're feeling particularly nice, what languages does ololobot know? 02:41:06 >>> help 02:41:06 These are all the cmds currently in ololobot: 02:41:07 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch 02:41:23 brainfuck, bootstrap, numbda, unlambda only 02:41:24 !bf # 02:41:26 0:*0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0| 02:41:46 expr evaluates trivial math expressions, but you can do that with numbda as well 02:42:04 Neat, thanks. 02:42:15 Never heard of numbda, going to have a look. =) 02:42:20 "pl" pointlessifies 02:42:21 eh 02:42:23 don't go 02:42:29 because it's not on the wiki :P 02:42:36 i haven't added any of my languages there yet 02:42:50 don't know why actually. 02:42:53 -!- s|k has left (?). 02:43:06 -!- Gurami has quit. 02:43:09 Yeah, Google doesn't seem to know much about numbda... 02:43:22 heh, prolly :) 02:43:29 most of it's still in my head 02:43:49 >>> numbda k={a->{b->a}};k!3!4 02:43:50 num:3 02:43:56 the k combinator in numbda 02:44:06 >>> numbda i={a->a};i!7 02:44:07 num:7 02:44:09 i combinator 02:44:20 >>> bf # 02:44:42 >>> bf +[>+.] 02:44:55 >>> numbda s={a->{b->{c->(a!c)!(b!c)}}};s!k!k!6 02:44:55 error:not-a-function:not-a-function:no-such-variable:k(-1) 02:45:00 oklokok: String literals? 02:45:20 >>> numbda s={a->{b->{c->(a!c)!(b!c)}}};k={a->{b->a}};s!k!k!6 02:45:20 num:6 02:45:23 "ssdfd" 02:45:27 s combinator 02:45:42 that demonstration uses the fact ```skkX = `iX = X 02:46:00 if you have any idea what i'm talking about :P 02:46:09 >>> numbda "yay"+"lol" 02:46:09 yaylol 02:46:11 yeah, I got it 02:46:15 cool 02:46:32 >>> "/"+"me" 02:46:38 pffff 02:46:46 >>> numbda "/"+"me"+" lols" 02:46:47 / lols 02:46:51 :P 02:46:53 hmm... 02:46:53 wtf 02:46:53 oh 02:47:03 >>> numbda "//"+"me"+" lols" 02:47:03 //me lols 02:47:04 weird 02:47:09 o.O 02:47:12 :DD 02:47:21 >>> numbda "/"+"me" 02:47:21 / 02:47:30 eh... it seems you found a bug 02:47:39 >>> numba "/quit" 02:47:42 >>> numbda "lol"+"/"+"me" 02:47:42 lol/ 02:47:43 ? 02:47:57 "/" does something weird. 02:48:00 i'll check the code.... 02:48:01 >>> numbda "lol/somethingelse" 02:48:02 lol/somethingelse 02:48:15 >>> numbda "lol/" + "somethingelse" 02:48:15 lol/somethingelse 02:48:21 >>> numbda "lol/" + "me" 02:48:21 lol/me 02:48:31 >>> numbda "lol" + "/" + "somethingelse" 02:48:32 lol/ 02:48:35 huh 02:48:52 >>> numbda "5"+"+"+"5" 02:48:52 5+ 02:48:52 >>> numbda "lol /" + "me" 02:48:53 lol /me 02:48:54 ah. 02:49:06 ? 02:49:07 Only two literals allowed? 02:49:10 >>> numbda "/" + "me" 02:49:10 / 02:49:16 >>> numbda "/" + "me " 02:49:16 / 02:49:20 >>> numbda "/" + "me 1" 02:49:20 / 02:49:25 -!- naringas has joined. 02:49:26 >>> numbda "\/" + "me 1" 02:49:26 \/me 1 02:49:29 ... 02:49:31 "/" is an operator, it seems that somehow fucks up :) 02:49:37 this is why also "+" does that 02:49:41 ah 02:49:58 i don't know why, i'm don't think i'm parsing strings as code... 02:50:16 i'll try to check... i did't actually debug strings, just assumed they work 02:50:18 Do you have a conditional other than the k combinator? 02:50:27 k combinator? 02:50:43 i have one in my head. not implemented though :\ 02:50:49 ok 02:50:52 you cannot exactly make a loop yet. 02:51:12 HandOfCode: k is the "kill" combinator that takes two arguments and returns its... second (?) one. 02:51:35 functions are first class so you can do some weird stuff, but since scoping is actually broken, that won't take you far either ;) 02:51:53 dmwit: second one 02:51:57 no 02:51:59 first one. 02:52:00 sorry 02:52:08 >>> ul ``kAB 02:52:08 -> A 02:52:18 >>> ul ```sABC 02:52:18 -> ('A', 'C', ('B', 'C')) 02:52:26 hmm, that's not very clear. 02:53:48 >>> numbda fix={f->{fix!f}} 02:53:48 id:fix(0) 02:53:56 ooo, it doesn't complain 02:54:02 Pretty useless without conditionals, though. 02:54:20 Oh, wait. 02:54:30 >>> numbda fix={f->{f!(fix!f)}} 02:54:30 id:fix(0) 02:54:39 Okay, still doesn't complain. =) 02:57:08 haha 02:57:12 >>> numbda 4 4 02:57:13 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:57:20 a syntax error 02:57:22 >>> numbda (4 4) 02:57:23 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 02:57:28 we'll enclose it in parens 02:57:30 >>> numbda 5+(4 4) 02:57:30 num:5 02:57:35 and use it in an addition 02:57:38 -!- Gumugum has joined. 02:57:44 an error is always 0 if used as a numbda. 02:57:46 *number 02:57:55 >>> numbda "sd"+(4 4)+"ere" 02:57:56 sdsyntax:multiple-adjacent-objokensere 02:58:11 it's the error as a string if used as a string 02:58:15 ! -[>-]. 02:58:18 Huh? 02:58:20 !bf8 -[>-]. 02:58:36 realloc: Cannot allocate memory 02:58:40 LOl 02:58:52 dmwit: it is very useless without conditionals, i'm aware of that :) 02:59:10 =) 02:59:12 in theory, i'm just very busy this month 02:59:45 i'll fix it once i have a week to spare 02:59:46 :P 03:00:05 it has sooooo much stuff everyone will just love <3 03:00:39 So /quit and get working! ;-) 03:01:01 -!- saturn_ has joined. 03:01:05 just kidding 03:01:08 -!- Ilya has joined. 03:02:05 hmm 03:02:12 >>> numbda "/"+"me" 03:02:13 / 03:02:15 ... 03:02:21 oh 03:03:26 >>> numbda "/"+"me" 03:03:26 / 03:03:49 Are you hot-swapping ololobot as you fix it? 03:04:22 -!- Gurami has joined. 03:05:18 >>> numbda "/"+"me" 03:05:18 /me 03:05:25 whut? 03:05:40 i'm not sure what that means 03:06:13 once again, i got the code correct on the second try, but it was just too hard for me to actually get to code in the right file xD 03:06:36 but it works now. 03:06:49 -!- Gurami has quit (Client Quit). 03:06:51 >>> numbda "/"*5 03:06:58 ? 03:07:00 i'll add that 03:07:47 >>> numbda "/"*5 03:07:47 ///// 03:07:56 i had it already, it was just erroneous :P 03:08:04 * oklokok sucks a bit. 03:08:31 dmwit: the bot reloads a lib every time it's used 03:08:41 so i don't have to restart it 03:09:50 numbda's basic idea was to make () mean a lambda, something that actually doesn't exist yet 03:09:58 () is eager, {} is lazy now 03:10:07 but i'll make it depend on context 03:10:22 -!- quwazz has joined. 03:10:23 so you can do normal math expressions, but also use () as a lambda you can pass around 03:11:00 -!- euklides__ has joined. 03:11:05 in case GregorR is looking, no, i'm not ripping this from you, i also had this idea before you said it on this channel :) 03:11:18 (you prolly don't remember having that idea though) 03:11:22 (and might not be you) 03:11:35 whoops, this became a monologue 03:11:59 i better continue my doings, 3 hours till school after all -> 03:12:12 ... 03:12:21 while i was away, [IRP] stayed vandalized for an hour 03:13:10 -!- euklides__ has quit (Client Quit). 03:14:07 -!- Stereo has left (?). 03:17:55 Could someone please tell me what 1 googol is equal to in an exponential number. 03:21:16 IRP in #irp, as the topic says. 03:25:02 Do we still have the invasion?!? 03:25:06 -!- nosound has joined. 03:25:14 Jebus. 03:26:03 but you're number 5 in reddit now, so you'll disappear from the front page soon, and then from the minds of most redditors 03:26:14 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:26:23 still #1 at programming.reddit 03:26:27 and it's weekend 03:26:30 which means 03:26:39 only the people with no life are reading reddit 03:27:05 programming.reddit is slower than regular reddit, so you'll be there for a while longer 03:30:05 -!- naringas has quit ("low battery"). 03:30:46 You guys know, the IRP people here aren't all from reddit. 03:31:28 I am, but only proximally. I'd found IRP before, just got reminded of it by Reddit. 03:31:45 -!- kriox has joined. 03:32:04 http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1187543109/ 03:33:14 -!- Lucent has joined. 03:33:35 Baka na 4chan no sito. . . (sorry; my terminal hates Japanese input for some reason) 03:33:39 Oh. 03:33:44 English. XD 03:33:47 * pikhq feels stupid 03:33:50 Storlek: probably a redditor posted that, though. 03:33:56 just like another one posted it on digg 03:34:02 those are secondary effects 03:34:53 lament- right, but a lot of 4channers don't look at reddit. 03:34:56 Like myself. 03:35:05 * pikhq groans 03:35:17 -!- Lucent has quit (Client Quit). 03:35:21 Storlek: well, at least you're honest :) 03:35:27 -!- FunnyMan3595 has left (?). 03:38:27 -!- fuelfive has joined. 03:46:50 -!- smipth has joined. 03:49:08 -!- lament has set channel mode: +o pikhq. 03:50:57 -!- esc209 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:53:51 -!- quwazz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]"). 03:56:15 -!- entropy- has quit. 03:57:55 still a billion ppl here 03:58:21 54 billion 04:04:40 54 people? All-time high. 04:05:38 i'm sure it was more earlier today 04:05:48 60 04:05:49 at least 04:06:06 i tried to keep track of the peak, but forgot at some point. 04:07:59 -!- fuelfive has left (?). 04:11:07 how many clones can you have from one ip 04:11:08 ? 04:11:20 in freenode 04:11:46 -!- kriox has left (?). 04:12:34 whoa i was opped! 04:13:11 lament figured you're the most kickban-happy guy after him. 04:13:30 nobody else was around 04:13:37 as it turned out, you weren't around either 04:13:45 but it kinda looked like you were :) 04:14:11 heh 04:14:56 -!- rumple has joined. 04:16:20 please reverse this string "reddit" 04:16:43 #irp 04:17:26 Whoa, I'm t3h op. 04:17:49 rumple: if you can't read, should you really be allowed to try programming of any kind? 04:19:07 good point 04:19:11 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:21:45 -!- saturn_ has left (?). 04:22:09 -!- ihope has joined. 04:22:31 -!- okokobot has joined. 04:22:34 -!- oklokok has left (?). 04:22:34 -!- oklokok has joined. 04:22:37 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 04:22:37 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 04:22:55 something like that 04:23:21 -!- cmhh has left (?). 04:32:35 it's all GregorR's fault 04:32:49 -!- zepolen has joined. 04:32:49 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 04:37:06 * bsmntbombdood flogs GregorR 04:39:12 -!- sahadev has joined. 04:39:12 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 04:39:52 hm 04:40:06 Bone. 04:40:10 so now instead of redditors flooding the channel, we'll do it ourselves? :) 04:40:15 :) 04:40:23 Automated flooding! 04:40:52 Heh, yeah. 04:41:43 Is it actually the best of ideas to have the page [[IRP]] point people to this channel? 04:41:52 No. 04:42:08 maybe not 04:42:24 Shall I change it to point somewhere else? 04:42:26 there's a big bold sign there directing people to #irp instead 04:42:37 when we put it up, most people started going there 04:46:41 -!- nosound has left (?). 04:50:31 ihope: you restored the vandalized version :) 04:50:52 Maybe, but at least it's the original. 04:51:23 Shall I reprotect it now? 04:51:42 ok, i reverted to the "right" version 04:53:16 (the way it was before reddit + one redditor edit that was actually in good faith) 04:54:06 So shall I protect? 04:55:30 actually i dunno, it's mostly been one guy 04:55:39 so maybe it's unnecessary 04:57:22 -!- Treeform has joined. 04:57:22 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:00:07 -!- zepolen has left (?). 05:01:09 schewl, cya --> 05:01:41 school starts tommorow :( 05:03:15 -!- jimmygoon has joined. 05:03:18 School doesn't start for weeks :-( 05:03:44 school starts in a couple weeks, but i get to go to mexico first :) 05:04:00 Ooh, Mexico. 05:04:17 I plan on visiting a Spanish-speaking country once I finish high school... I think. 05:04:21 yeah, mhome of the free and the brave 05:04:28 and the mexicans 05:05:21 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:05:38 you can come to my country 05:06:00 okokobot: you're a little slow, there. 05:06:10 bsmntbombdood: your country is spanish-speaking? 05:06:20 if you want it to be 05:08:10 -!- sahadev has left (?). 05:08:34 -!- rumple has left (?). 05:13:57 -!- sk1tch has quit. 05:18:07 -!- Ilya has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]"). 05:19:56 -!- havox has quit. 05:21:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:21:35 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:21:51 oerjan: are you another Redditer? 05:22:00 Or redditer, be it so? 05:22:15 ihope: oh dear, are you getting desperate in here? 05:22:54 nah, i just occasionally follow a link from #haskell 05:26:05 i thought oerjan was a regular 05:26:30 somehow i assumed that since he's always in the channel, he must be :) 05:26:45 lament: you were always leaping to conclusions. 05:26:50 a regular delinquent 05:27:17 i am a redditor i am so embarrassed i quit 05:27:21 -!- Treeform has left (?). 05:29:44 -!- frankbob has joined. 05:29:45 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:31:45 -!- sk1tch has joined. 05:31:45 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:32:44 "With the invention of the moveable type printing press by Johannes Gutenberg around 1450, printing — and printers — proliferated throughout Europe. 05:32:48 whoops 05:36:57 -!- frankbob has quit. 05:37:46 -!- dew has joined. 05:37:46 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:38:41 ^ annoying 05:38:50 yeah. 05:43:10 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:46:24 -!- sk1tch has quit. 05:47:46 -!- ftld has joined. 05:47:46 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 05:49:49 -!- ftld has quit (Client Quit). 05:59:55 -!- r2q2 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:00:51 -!- esc206 has joined. 06:00:51 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 06:04:10 -!- smuckers has quit ("CGI:IRC 0.4.2 [EOF]"). 06:09:18 -!- chromakode has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:14:45 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:20:31 1*1 06:20:48 Please tell me where to do IRP 06:21:38 i don't know if you will enjoy IRP much with a < 5 line window 06:22:10 I have 30 06:22:47 oh, in that case i don't know if you will enjoy IRP much without being able to read 06:23:13 06:23:38 I use a braille terminal, asshole 06:23:56 i was going to go with blindness next :) 06:24:15 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 06:24:34 I see^H^H^Hfeel that a few times 06:24:41 what if I wanted a custom invitation? 06:25:16 you didn't get one when you entered? complain to the administratio. 06:25:36 *n 06:25:45 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 06:27:19 -!- W|cked has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:03:44 -!- dtbelobrown has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:08:54 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit). 07:11:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:11:12 PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp. 07:11:55 stfu 07:15:02 haha 07:15:17 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b %okokobot!*@*. 07:24:12 -!- Rapidmon has joined. 07:27:37 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:37:03 please tell me if 0x778 is larger than the color red in hex 07:38:02 SnakeO: #irp 07:39:46 awe come on 07:39:49 that's an easy one 07:40:14 in standard RGB it's not in bitmap BGR it is 07:40:16 well 07:40:17 no 07:40:19 even then it's not 07:40:19 :D 07:40:26 either way 07:40:28 #irp 07:40:30 eat my shorts 07:40:34 and I'm out 07:50:27 -!- gbug has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:30 -!- Gumugum has quit ("-=SysReset 2.53=-"). 08:29:24 -!- HandOfCode has left (?). 08:34:42 -!- gbug has left (?). 08:35:44 -!- e0\m2x has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:51:21 -!- kijjaz has joined. 08:56:34 -!- garandou_ has joined. 09:05:44 -!- Pox has joined. 09:05:52 -!- Pox has quit (Client Quit). 09:18:07 -!- garandou has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:30:17 -!- vladsharp has joined. 09:30:51 Please, someone write the first 19 numbers of the fibonacci sequence 09:31:37 hmnnn 10:07:09 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:13:00 -!- vladsharp has left (?). 10:19:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("By accepting this quit message, you agree that, unless explicitly stated, there is no warranty."). 10:23:31 -!- gnomon has joined. 10:49:49 -!- Shrik3 has joined. 11:19:19 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:19:25 -!- SimonRC has joined. 11:22:34 -!- floam has quit. 11:37:55 -!- BobFunk has joined. 11:40:01 Please find the millionth lexicographic permutation of the digits 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, if you would be so kind 11:41:46 -!- BobFunk has left (?). 11:51:36 -!- helios24 has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:51:36 -!- c1|freaky has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:51:36 -!- mouflon has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:51:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:51:36 -!- SDr has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:51:37 -!- sp3tt has quit 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If you read this message and x < 5, please increase value of x by 1 and print out this same message with x value updated. 14:24:41 If you can't read the topic, should you be allowed to write code? 14:31:24 -!- SDr has quit. 14:36:34 -!- okokobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:36:38 o 14:36:41 !help 14:36:44 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 14:36:46 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 14:38:18 -!- ololobot has joined. 14:38:24 -!- oklokok has left (?). 14:38:24 -!- oklokok has joined. 14:47:36 -!- Rapidmon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:04:01 -!- boyscared has joined. 15:28:15 -!- turtletime has joined. 15:30:42 -!- Oatmeat|umn has joined. 15:46:39 -!- garandou_ has quit ("This is just an annoying quit message."). 15:53:02 -!- youpi has joined. 16:16:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:18:59 -!- sk1tch has joined. 16:19:05 -!- sk1tch has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:19:10 -!- youpi has left (?). 16:34:30 -!- Iskratov has joined. 16:44:02 -!- cpfr has joined. 17:08:04 what's the meaning of sublicensing? 17:10:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:22:17 A license holder (that is, not the copyright holder) distributing the copyrighted work under his own licensing terms. 17:33:50 -!- Nucleo2 has joined. 17:33:58 -!- Shrik3 has left (?). 17:51:32 -!- Storlek has left (?). 17:57:10 -!- Goldfinger has joined. 17:58:10 -!- Goldfinger has left (?). 18:02:28 -!- Iskratov has left (?). 18:16:22 -!- keyn has joined. 18:18:04 -!- Nucleo2 has left (?). 18:24:14 -!- kijjaz has left (?). 18:29:20 i have to be a school in 1.5 hours :( 19:04:44 I have to be at school at 9:30 this wednesday 19:04:47 today I slept to ~12:30 19:04:49 :| 19:04:54 8:30* 19:16:28 -!- Muad_Dib has joined. 19:17:25 -!- Muad_Dib has left (?). 19:46:37 -!- boyscared has left (?). 19:52:51 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b undesktop!*@*. 19:53:55 wait, that's not right is it 19:54:32 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *undeskto*!*@*. 19:54:42 right?.. 19:57:29 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 20:00:02 -!- turtletime has quit. 20:08:27 no, it's left 20:19:17 -!- trasz has joined. 20:19:34 Please halt. 20:20:22 hm. seems to work ;-) 20:20:41 Please solve the halting problem. 20:22:00 Use WD40 on moving parts. 20:46:06 -!- ehird` has quit. 20:48:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:54:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 20:54:20 -!- turtletime has joined. 20:55:39 -!- turtletime has quit (Client Quit). 20:56:06 IRP is still on the front page of programming.reddit 21:17:48 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:37:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:41:21 * GregorR <3 causing #esoteric strife. 21:47:28 * bsmntbombdood kicks GregorR 21:52:58 irp is almost off programming.reddit 21:54:39 * GregorR votes it up a bit. 21:56:05 * bsmntbombdood votes his foot in GregorR's mouth 21:59:25 first day of school is t3h 0v3r 22:04:58 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 22:07:21 -!- turtletime has joined. 22:19:47 -!- keyn has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:36:47 -!- SnakeO_ has left (?). 22:41:47 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:42:07 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:47:47 -!- turtletime has quit. 23:01:12 -!- turtletime has joined. 23:04:32 -!- turtletime has quit (Client Quit). 23:08:25 -!- turtletime has joined. 23:14:20 -!- ihope_ has joined. 23:15:23 -!- turtletime has quit. 23:17:38 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:17:45 -!- blackspyder has joined. 23:17:46 -!- SimonRC has joined. 23:18:16 -!- Keymaker has joined. 23:20:18 i was just wondering, does anyone know any good floppy operating system? preferably with simple gui. can be an old one and doesn't need to be able to access internet or anything. 23:20:42 i mean, booted from floppy and working entirely in memory 23:21:26 it'd be great if it also could save files to another floppy 23:25:45 -!- floam has joined. 23:29:41 -!- rc-1 has joined. 23:30:22 dr-dos :P 23:31:07 your motherboard 23:32:10 one day i'll make one of my own (os) but i don't have the patience just yet 23:32:26 of course, that will support almost nothing 23:33:32 well thats how linux started 23:36:58 Keymaker: blueflops 23:37:30 2 floppies, includes a graphical web browser 23:38:53 -!- trasz has quit ("leaving"). 23:39:50 ah. but is there anything not linux? i'm kind of sick of it. :) i found this menuetos, but i'm still confused if it can be ran from floppy or not 23:42:08 We're all going to make our own OS someday. 23:42:17 Keymaker: yes, it can. 23:42:30 And when that happens, the world will be a better place. 23:42:50 it can? awesome! 23:42:56 yes, agree ihope... 23:43:01 even if you probably were joking :D 23:43:10 But I can't just yet, due to my lack of knowledge of x86. 23:43:44 so just write it for something other than x86.- 23:43:48 I could write an OS that has lots of overhead and little hardware support by having it run as a program under another OS. 23:44:49 Or I could just wade through the stuff required to make GHC output Multiboot. 23:45:11 Or even use something other than Multiboot. 2007-08-21: 00:00:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 00:00:50 -!- turtletime has joined. 00:04:49 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:06:27 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:07:17 -!- turtletime has quit. 00:15:38 -!- blackspyder has quit ("Who's your BitchX?"). 00:19:27 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 00:26:06 -!- importantshock has joined. 00:30:09 -!- importantshock has quit. 00:42:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:43:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:46:39 -!- turtletime has joined. 00:48:48 -!- importantshock has joined. 00:50:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:54:36 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:11:05 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 01:14:01 -!- turtletime has quit. 01:36:25 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 01:40:25 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:53:13 -!- floam has quit. 02:04:11 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 02:43:18 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament. 02:43:43 -!- lament has set channel mode: -b %asiebot!*@*. 02:43:54 -!- lament has set channel mode: -b *!*=chatzill@63.210.97.*. 02:44:12 -!- lament has set channel mode: -b undesktop!*@*. 02:44:22 -!- lament has set channel mode: -b *undeskto*!*@*. 02:44:44 -!- lament has set channel mode: -b %okokobot!*@*. 02:45:05 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 02:51:17 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 02:52:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit). 02:56:15 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:57:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:07:20 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 03:09:50 -!- scorche has joined. 03:12:45 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 03:16:27 -!- Svenstaro has quit (Client Quit). 03:17:57 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 03:20:24 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:30:19 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 04:19:43 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 04:46:33 where's rodger? 04:46:42 he hasn't been here for a while 04:48:48 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 04:49:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:50:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Client Quit). 04:56:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:27:43 -!- esc206 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:39:17 -!- Conceptual has joined. 05:39:29 -!- Svenstaro has quit. 05:39:33 Please say "Hello, World!" 05:40:24 -!- darfur has joined. 05:40:47 Hello, World 05:40:54 Hello, World! 05:41:35 HOW MUCH WOOD 05:41:40 COULD A WOOD CHUCK CHUCK 05:41:45 IF A WOOD CHUCK 05:41:49 COULD CHUCK WOOD 05:41:56 42 05:42:20 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:32 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:46 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:51 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:52 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:54 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:54 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:56 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:56 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:57 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:58 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:42:59 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:00 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:01 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:01 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:02 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:02 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:03 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:04 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:05 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:05 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:06 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:07 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:08 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:09 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:11 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:11 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:13 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:13 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:15 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:15 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:17 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:17 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:18 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:19 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:21 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:21 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:22 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:23 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:24 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:25 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:26 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:27 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:28 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:29 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:31 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:31 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:33 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:33 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:35 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:35 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:36 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:37 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:39 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:39 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:41 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:41 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:43 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:43 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:45 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:45 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:46 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:47 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:49 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:50 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:50 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:51 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:53 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:53 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:55 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:55 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:43:58 Could someone please ask someone to repeat this request? 05:44:01 SYSTEM HALT 05:45:31 Please, write the 98 bottles lyrics 05:47:07 go to hell 05:47:23 um, this wasn't a request for 99 bottles lyrics. 05:47:31 grab your broom and get to work. 05:48:06 98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer. 05:48:06 Take one down and pass it around, 97 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:11 97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottles of beer. 05:48:12 Take one down and pass it around, 96 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:12 96 bottles of beer on the wall, 96 bottles of beer. 05:48:12 Take one down and pass it around, 95 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:17 95 bottles of beer on the wall, 95 bottles of beer. 05:48:17 Take one down and pass it around, 94 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:17 94 bottles of beer on the wall, 94 bottles of beer. 05:48:17 Take one down and pass it around, 93 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:18 93 bottles of beer on the wall, 93 bottles of beer. 05:48:21 Take one down and pass it around, 92 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:22 92 bottles of beer on the wall, 92 bottles of beer. 05:48:24 Take one down and pass it around, 91 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:26 91 bottles of beer on the wall, 91 bottles of beer. 05:48:29 Take one down and pass it around, 90 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:31 90 bottles of beer on the wall, 90 bottles of beer. 05:48:33 Take one down and pass it around, 89 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:35 89 bottles of beer on the wall, 89 bottles of beer. 05:48:36 Take one down and pass it around, 88 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:38 88 bottles of beer on the wall, 88 bottles of beer. 05:48:41 Take one down and pass it around, 87 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:43 87 bottles of beer on the wall, 87 bottles of beer. 05:48:45 Take one down and pass it around, 86 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:47 86 bottles of beer on the wall, 86 bottles of beer. 05:48:49 Take one down and pass it around, 85 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:50 85 bottles of beer on the wall, 85 bottles of beer. 05:48:53 Take one down and pass it around, 84 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:54 84 bottles of beer on the wall, 84 bottles of beer. 05:48:57 Take one down and pass it around, 83 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:48:59 83 bottles of beer on the wall, 83 bottles of beer. 05:49:01 Take one down and pass it around, 82 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:03 82 bottles of beer on the wall, 82 bottles of beer. 05:49:05 Take one down and pass it around, 81 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:07 81 bottles of beer on the wall, 81 bottles of beer. 05:49:09 Take one down and pass it around, 80 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:11 80 bottles of beer on the wall, 80 bottles of beer. 05:49:13 Take one down and pass it around, 79 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:15 79 bottles of beer on the wall, 79 bottles of beer. 05:49:17 Take one down and pass it around, 78 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:19 78 bottles of beer on the wall, 78 bottles of beer. 05:49:21 Take one down and pass it around, 77 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:23 77 bottles of beer on the wall, 77 bottles of beer. 05:49:25 Take one down and pass it around, 76 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:27 76 bottles of beer on the wall, 76 bottles of beer. 05:49:29 Take one down and pass it around, 75 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:31 75 bottles of beer on the wall, 75 bottles of beer. 05:49:33 Take one down and pass it around, 74 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:35 74 bottles of beer on the wall, 74 bottles of beer. 05:49:37 Take one down and pass it around, 73 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:39 73 bottles of beer on the wall, 73 bottles of beer. 05:49:40 Take one down and pass it around, 72 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:42 72 bottles of beer on the wall, 72 bottles of beer. 05:49:44 Take one down and pass it around, 71 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:47 71 bottles of beer on the wall, 71 bottles of beer. 05:49:49 Take one down and pass it around, 70 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:50 70 bottles of beer on the wall, 70 bottles of beer. 05:49:53 Take one down and pass it around, 69 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:54 69 bottles of beer on the wall, 69 bottles of beer. 05:49:56 Take one down and pass it around, 68 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:49:58 68 bottles of beer on the wall, 68 bottles of beer. 05:50:00 Take one down and pass it around, 67 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:02 67 bottles of beer on the wall, 67 bottles of beer. 05:50:05 Take one down and pass it around, 66 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:06 66 bottles of beer on the wall, 66 bottles of beer. 05:50:08 Take one down and pass it around, 65 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:10 65 bottles of beer on the wall, 65 bottles of beer. 05:50:13 Take one down and pass it around, 64 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:14 64 bottles of beer on the wall, 64 bottles of beer. 05:50:16 Take one down and pass it around, 63 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:18 63 bottles of beer on the wall, 63 bottles of beer. 05:50:20 Take one down and pass it around, 62 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:23 62 bottles of beer on the wall, 62 bottles of beer. 05:50:25 Take one down and pass it around, 61 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:27 61 bottles of beer on the wall, 61 bottles of beer. 05:50:28 Take one down and pass it around, 60 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:31 60 bottles of beer on the wall, 60 bottles of beer. 05:50:33 Take one down and pass it around, 59 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:34 59 bottles of beer on the wall, 59 bottles of beer. 05:50:37 Take one down and pass it around, 58 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:39 58 bottles of beer on the wall, 58 bottles of beer. 05:50:41 Take one down and pass it around, 57 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:43 57 bottles of beer on the wall, 57 bottles of beer. 05:50:44 Take one down and pass it around, 56 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:46 56 bottles of beer on the wall, 56 bottles of beer. 05:50:49 Take one down and pass it around, 55 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:51 55 bottles of beer on the wall, 55 bottles of beer. 05:50:53 Take one down and pass it around, 54 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:55 54 bottles of beer on the wall, 54 bottles of beer. 05:50:57 Take one down and pass it around, 53 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:50:59 53 bottles of beer on the wall, 53 bottles of beer. 05:51:01 Take one down and pass it around, 52 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:03 52 bottles of beer on the wall, 52 bottles of beer. 05:51:05 Take one down and pass it around, 51 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:07 51 bottles of beer on the wall, 51 bottles of beer. 05:51:09 Take one down and pass it around, 50 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:11 50 bottles of beer on the wall, 50 bottles of beer. 05:51:13 Take one down and pass it around, 49 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:15 49 bottles of beer on the wall, 49 bottles of beer. 05:51:16 Take one down and pass it around, 48 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:19 48 bottles of beer on the wall, 48 bottles of beer. 05:51:21 Take one down and pass it around, 47 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:23 47 bottles of beer on the wall, 47 bottles of beer. 05:51:25 Take one down and pass it around, 46 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:27 46 bottles of beer on the wall, 46 bottles of beer. 05:51:29 Take one down and pass it around, 45 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:31 45 bottles of beer on the wall, 45 bottles of beer. 05:51:33 Take one down and pass it around, 44 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:35 44 bottles of beer on the wall, 44 bottles of beer. 05:51:37 Take one down and pass it around, 43 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:39 43 bottles of beer on the wall, 43 bottles of beer. 05:51:41 Take one down and pass it around, 42 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:43 42 bottles of beer on the wall, 42 bottles of beer. 05:51:45 Take one down and pass it around, 41 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:47 41 bottles of beer on the wall, 41 bottles of beer. 05:51:49 Take one down and pass it around, 40 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:51 40 bottles of beer on the wall, 40 bottles of beer. 05:51:53 Take one down and pass it around, 39 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:55 39 bottles of beer on the wall, 39 bottles of beer. 05:51:57 Take one down and pass it around, 38 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:51:59 38 bottles of beer on the wall, 38 bottles of beer. 05:52:01 Take one down and pass it around, 37 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:03 37 bottles of beer on the wall, 37 bottles of beer. 05:52:05 Take one down and pass it around, 36 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:07 36 bottles of beer on the wall, 36 bottles of beer. 05:52:09 Take one down and pass it around, 35 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:11 35 bottles of beer on the wall, 35 bottles of beer. 05:52:13 Take one down and pass it around, 34 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:14 34 bottles of beer on the wall, 34 bottles of beer. 05:52:17 Take one down and pass it around, 33 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:18 33 bottles of beer on the wall, 33 bottles of beer. 05:52:20 Take one down and pass it around, 32 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:22 32 bottles of beer on the wall, 32 bottles of beer. 05:52:25 Take one down and pass it around, 31 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:26 31 bottles of beer on the wall, 31 bottles of beer. 05:52:29 Take one down and pass it around, 30 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:31 30 bottles of beer on the wall, 30 bottles of beer. 05:52:32 Take one down and pass it around, 29 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:34 29 bottles of beer on the wall, 29 bottles of beer. 05:52:36 Take one down and pass it around, 28 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:38 28 bottles of beer on the wall, 28 bottles of beer. 05:52:40 Take one down and pass it around, 27 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:42 27 bottles of beer on the wall, 27 bottles of beer. 05:52:44 Take one down and pass it around, 26 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:46 26 bottles of beer on the wall, 26 bottles of beer. 05:52:48 Take one down and pass it around, 25 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:50 25 bottles of beer on the wall, 25 bottles of beer. 05:52:52 Take one down and pass it around, 24 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:54 24 bottles of beer on the wall, 24 bottles of beer. 05:52:56 Take one down and pass it around, 23 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:52:59 23 bottles of beer on the wall, 23 bottles of beer. 05:53:01 Take one down and pass it around, 22 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:03 22 bottles of beer on the wall, 22 bottles of beer. 05:53:04 Take one down and pass it around, 21 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:06 21 bottles of beer on the wall, 21 bottles of beer. 05:53:08 Take one down and pass it around, 20 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:10 20 bottles of beer on the wall, 20 bottles of beer. 05:53:12 Take one down and pass it around, 19 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:15 19 bottles of beer on the wall, 19 bottles of beer. 05:53:17 Take one down and pass it around, 18 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:19 18 bottles of beer on the wall, 18 bottles of beer. 05:53:21 Take one down and pass it around, 17 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:23 17 bottles of beer on the wall, 17 bottles of beer. 05:53:25 Take one down and pass it around, 16 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:27 16 bottles of beer on the wall, 16 bottles of beer. 05:53:29 Take one down and pass it around, 15 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:31 15 bottles of beer on the wall, 15 bottles of beer. 05:53:33 Take one down and pass it around, 14 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:35 14 bottles of beer on the wall, 14 bottles of beer. 05:53:37 Take one down and pass it around, 13 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:39 13 bottles of beer on the wall, 13 bottles of beer. 05:53:41 Take one down and pass it around, 12 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:43 12 bottles of beer on the wall, 12 bottles of beer. 05:53:45 Take one down and pass it around, 11 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:47 11 bottles of beer on the wall, 11 bottles of beer. 05:53:49 Take one down and pass it around, 10 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:51 10 bottles of beer on the wall, 10 bottles of beer. 05:53:53 Take one down and pass it around, 9 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:55 9 bottles of beer on the wall, 9 bottles of beer. 05:53:57 Take one down and pass it around, 8 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:53:59 8 bottles of beer on the wall, 8 bottles of beer. 05:54:01 Take one down and pass it around, 7 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:02 7 bottles of beer on the wall, 7 bottles of beer. 05:54:05 Take one down and pass it around, 6 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:07 6 bottles of beer on the wall, 6 bottles of beer. 05:54:09 Take one down and pass it around, 5 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:11 5 bottles of beer on the wall, 5 bottles of beer. 05:54:13 Take one down and pass it around, 4 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:15 4 bottles of beer on the wall, 4 bottles of beer. 05:54:17 Take one down and pass it around, 3 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:19 3 bottles of beer on the wall, 3 bottles of beer. 05:54:21 Take one down and pass it around, 2 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:23 2 bottles of beer on the wall, 2 bottles of beer. 05:54:25 Take one down and pass it around, 1 bottle of beer on the wall. 05:54:27 1 bottle of beer on the wall, 1 bottle of beer. 05:54:29 Take one down and pass it around, no more bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:31 No more bottles of beer on the wall, no more bottles of beer. 05:54:33 Go to the store and buy some more, 98 bottles of beer on the wall. 05:54:41 thank you cm 05:54:46 conceptual 05:54:48 I screwed up tho 05:55:02 ? 05:55:02 Can you redo it with all caps? thats how i need it formatted.... 05:55:12 ... 05:55:17 let me get the chinese children back on the computer 05:55:27 I apologize. but appreciate your help 05:55:39 98 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 98 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:39 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 97 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:39 97 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 97 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:39 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 96 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:39 96 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 96 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:40 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 95 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:42 95 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 95 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:44 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 94 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:46 94 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 94 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:48 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 93 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:50 93 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 93 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 92 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:54 92 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 92 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:55:56 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 91 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:55:58 91 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 91 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:00 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 90 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:02 90 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 90 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:04 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 89 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:06 89 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 89 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:08 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 88 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:10 88 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 88 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:12 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 87 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:14 87 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 87 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:16 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 86 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:18 86 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 86 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:20 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 85 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:22 85 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 85 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:24 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 84 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:26 84 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 84 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:28 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 83 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:30 83 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 83 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:32 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 82 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:33 82 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 82 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:36 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 81 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:38 81 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 81 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:40 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 80 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:42 80 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 80 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:44 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 79 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:46 79 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 79 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:48 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 78 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:50 78 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 78 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 77 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:53 77 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 77 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:56:56 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 76 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:56:58 76 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 76 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:00 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 75 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:02 75 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 75 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:04 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 74 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:06 74 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 74 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:08 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 73 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:10 73 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 73 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:12 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 72 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:14 72 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 72 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:16 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 71 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:17 71 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 71 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:19 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 70 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:21 70 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 70 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:24 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 69 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:25 69 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 69 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:28 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 68 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:30 68 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 68 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:31 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 67 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:33 67 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 67 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:35 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 66 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:38 66 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 66 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:40 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 65 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:42 65 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 65 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:43 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 64 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:46 64 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 64 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:47 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 63 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:49 63 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 63 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 62 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:53 62 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 62 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:55 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 61 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:57:57 61 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 61 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:57:59 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 60 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:02 60 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 60 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:04 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 59 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:06 59 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 59 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:08 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 58 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:10 58 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 58 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:12 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 57 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:14 57 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 57 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:15 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 56 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:17 56 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 56 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:20 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 55 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:22 55 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 55 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:24 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 54 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:26 54 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 54 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:28 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 53 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:30 53 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 53 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:32 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 52 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:34 52 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 52 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:36 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 51 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:38 51 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 51 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:40 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 50 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:42 50 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 50 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:44 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 49 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:46 49 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 49 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:48 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 48 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:50 48 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 48 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 47 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:53 47 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 47 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:58:55 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 46 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:58:58 46 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 46 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:00 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 45 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:02 45 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 45 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:04 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 44 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:06 44 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 44 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:08 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 43 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:10 43 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 43 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:12 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 42 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:14 42 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 42 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:16 where did my ops go :( 05:59:16 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 41 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:18 41 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 41 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:20 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 40 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:22 40 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 40 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:24 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 39 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:26 39 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 39 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:28 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 38 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:30 38 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 38 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:32 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 37 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:34 37 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 37 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:36 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 36 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:38 36 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 36 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:40 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 35 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:42 35 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 35 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:44 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 34 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:46 34 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 34 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:48 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 33 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:50 33 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 33 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 32 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:54 32 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 32 BOTTLES OF BEER. 05:59:56 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 31 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 05:59:58 31 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 31 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:00 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 30 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:02 30 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 30 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:04 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 29 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:06 29 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 29 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:08 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 28 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:10 28 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 28 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:12 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 27 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:14 27 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 27 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:16 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 26 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:18 26 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 26 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:19 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 25 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:21 25 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 25 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:23 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 24 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:25 24 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 24 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:27 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 23 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:29 23 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 23 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:32 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 22 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:34 22 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 22 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:35 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 21 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:37 21 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 21 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:40 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 20 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:42 20 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 20 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:44 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 19 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:46 19 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 19 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:48 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 18 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:50 18 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 18 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 17 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:54 17 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 17 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:56 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 16 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:00:58 16 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 16 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:00:59 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 15 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:02 15 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 15 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:04 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 14 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:06 14 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 14 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:08 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 13 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:10 13 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 13 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:12 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 12 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:14 12 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 12 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:16 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 11 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:18 11 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 11 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:20 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 10 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:22 10 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 10 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:23 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 9 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:26 9 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 9 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:27 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 8 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:30 8 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 8 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:31 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 7 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:33 7 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 7 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:36 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 6 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:38 6 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 6 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:39 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 5 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:41 5 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 5 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:44 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 4 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:46 4 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 4 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:48 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 3 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:49 3 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 3 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:52 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 2 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:54 2 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 2 BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:01:56 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, 1 BOTTLE OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:01:58 1 BOTTLE OF BEER ON THE WALL, 1 BOTTLE OF BEER. 06:02:00 TAKE ONE DOWN AND PASS IT AROUND, NO MORE BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:02:02 NO MORE BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, NO MORE BOTTLES OF BEER. 06:02:04 GO TO THE STORE AND BUY SOME MORE, 98 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL. 06:02:12 thank you! 06:02:17 i am gonna go to the store right now. 06:03:26 -!- Conceptual has left (?). 06:08:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:10:07 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:15:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament. 06:16:02 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*n=darfur@*.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. 06:16:43 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*@d14-69-59-38.try.wideopenwest.com. 06:17:08 i see i just escaped the action. 06:17:13 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 06:17:24 makes the logs rather quick to read... 06:20:20 * lament blows the smoke off the tip of the gun and puts the gun back into the belt 06:21:51 putting retards out of their misery since 2007 06:23:21 * oerjan cunningly detects a ddarius inspiration 07:00:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:45:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:23:47 -!- atdt_ has joined. 09:21:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:31:39 -!- atdt_ has quit ("exiting"). 10:21:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 11:11:39 i wonder where ppl get those clever quit messages 11:49:44 -!- jix_ has joined. 12:22:11 -!- turtletime has joined. 12:26:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:06:14 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:39:42 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:39:58 -!- jix__ has joined. 14:10:02 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 14:56:45 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:02:25 -!- importantshock has joined. 15:31:46 it's funny how much increase in speakers can reduce conversation 15:38:06 -!- edduddiee has joined. 15:43:40 -!- ihope_ has joined. 15:43:44 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 15:45:38 -!- ivan` has joined. 15:52:01 -!- ehird` has quit ("Pong timeout"). 15:53:55 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:08:55 -!- ivan` has quit. 16:29:37 -!- edduddiee has left (?). 16:42:00 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 17:08:16 -!- Svenstaro has left (?). 17:11:15 -!- ivan` has joined. 17:11:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:17:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:21:58 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:40:41 anyone alive 17:40:52 NO WE ARE ALL DEAD 17:40:57 good 17:41:00 BRAINS 17:41:09 who wants to expand on the general idea of implang when it was a designed language? 17:41:25 what's implang? 17:42:21 remember it? 17:42:23 from #implang? 17:42:28 that thing 17:42:40 i'm thinking about making a new channel with a different name, to continue the project when it was a planned languge 17:48:45 sound good? 17:55:52 -!- keyn has joined. 17:56:03 oh well 17:57:28 -!- ihope_ has joined. 17:57:33 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 18:00:57 hi 18:05:19 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:10:20 -!- gnomon has joined. 18:16:54 -!- ivan`_ has joined. 18:33:38 -!- ivan` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:36:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:36:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:16:37 ehird`: sounds something i'd gladly follow idly by :) 19:19:05 oklokok: ;P 19:25:30 What are we following idly by? 19:26:28 And do we get ice cream? 19:26:34 (19:41:06) (ehird`) i'm thinking about making a new channel with a different name, to continue the project when it was a planned languge 19:26:34 (19:47:11) (ehird`) sound good? 19:26:41 ihope: that 19:27:30 I see. 19:29:40 oerjan: where do you live? 19:30:14 i vaguely recall it was bergen, but i don't really know other norwegian towns than bergen and oslo 19:30:26 Trondheim 19:30:32 oh 19:30:35 close to bergen? 19:30:44 no 19:30:50 close to hammerfest? 19:30:54 hmm... 19:30:56 no :) 19:31:01 oh 19:31:05 but in the north anyway? 19:31:10 in the middle 19:31:16 oh :|| 19:31:21 then my memory totally failed me 19:31:28 trondheim sounds familiar 19:32:19 it's the third largest city after Oslo and Bergen, iirc 19:32:42 i was first gonna say i can get you some ice cream when i come to bergen, but then realized you prolly don't live there 19:34:56 oh it's really in the middle 19:35:29 no offence, but i'm not gonna come there to bring you ice cream :< 19:35:42 no matter how much you beg 19:36:40 ok, simple planned language design in #testlang 19:45:00 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:54:56 -!- gnomon has joined. 19:58:17 -!- turtletime has quit. 20:34:49 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:10:34 -!- gnomon has quit (Connection timed out). 21:30:30 -!- turtletime has joined. 21:33:45 -!- gnomon has joined. 21:44:34 -!- undesktop has joined. 21:44:42 print hello word 21:44:50 hello word 21:44:50 -!- undesktop has left (?). 21:46:38 wow, he actually found #esoteric 21:46:47 i thought he wouldn't manage 21:47:07 this someone you know? 21:47:27 yes, from #irp :) 21:49:58 -!- keyn has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:58:42 -!- turtletime has quit. 22:02:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:08:12 -!- gnomon_ has joined. 22:08:48 -!- gnomon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:18:27 -!- turtletime has joined. 22:37:33 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 22:56:23 -!- turtletime has quit. 23:19:42 -!- scorche has quit (" rebooting..."). 2007-08-22: 00:02:11 -!- turtletime has joined. 00:02:55 -!- FMota has joined. 00:04:36 -!- turtletime has quit (Client Quit). 00:11:42 -!- turtletime has joined. 00:34:11 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:08:40 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:13:30 -!- ehird` has quit. 01:44:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:48:47 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:59:45 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:26:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:32:36 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:47:52 -!- naringas has joined. 03:00:47 -!- dmwit has quit ("Leaving"). 03:13:17 -!- naringas has left (?). 03:50:18 -!- turtletime has quit. 05:08:39 lament, ya gotta stop killing them so routinely 05:08:45 add some spin to it 05:08:53 like play password 05:08:59 or russian roulette 05:51:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:51:57 -!- Arrogant has joined. 06:56:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 06:57:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:11:42 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 07:39:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:57:23 !roulette 07:57:27 Huh? 07:57:38 (09:55:54) (+oklopol) %roulette 07:57:38 (09:55:55) kick: (Fiskare) was kicked by (trazer) (You are damn LUCKY today, Fiskare!) 07:57:40 :P 07:57:47 trazer <3 07:57:54 school -> 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:19:08 -!- jcc_ has joined. 08:34:18 -!- jcc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:36:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:49:58 -!- mouflon has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:50:17 -!- mouflon has joined. 08:58:48 -!- mouflon has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:17:27 -!- mouflon has joined. 11:49:07 -!- Svenstaro has joined. 12:23:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:23:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:23:28 -!- turtletime has joined. 12:45:56 -!- jix_ has joined. 13:14:23 -!- Svenstaro has left (?). 13:40:31 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:40:47 -!- jix__ has joined. 15:05:29 -!- ihope_ has joined. 15:33:13 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 16:07:21 -!- gnomon_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:13:07 -!- gnomon has joined. 16:25:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:45:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:59:19 -!- rc-1 has quit (Connection timed out). 18:25:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:29:51 -!- Oatmeat|umn has left (?). 18:32:18 -!- keyn has joined. 18:46:29 -!- ivan`_ has changed nick to ivan`. 18:47:45 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 18:48:11 -!- jix_ has joined. 19:40:37 -!- keyn has quit ("kaerimashou"). 19:55:44 -!- turtletime has quit. 20:57:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:59:52 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:13:51 -!- turtletime has joined. 21:33:47 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:34:36 I think my Google interviews went well 21:34:39 I had interviews for Google's Zürich office 21:36:50 -!- turtletime has quit. 21:41:15 what position? 21:42:46 insect overlord 21:42:51 Mind-control-device engineering. 21:42:58 I mean, Software Engineer 21:43:45 so, that's the only real job at google right? 21:44:59 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 21:45:05 no 21:45:23 There are also people the run the datacenters, and many support staff 21:45:30 including exellent chefs 21:45:45 the only real programming job i meant 21:47:40 oh yeah 21:50:16 do they have the free cafeteria over there? 21:50:39 yes 21:50:48 they do your laundry too 21:50:50 no dorms yet 21:51:09 nice 21:51:17 doesn't sound like a real job, more of a way of life 21:51:37 heh 21:51:48 you're getting paid crazy money, and have no time at all to spend it 21:51:48 they are going after tha academics 21:51:57 no, they encourage you not to overwork 21:52:18 20% 21:52:26 you get a mentor at the beginning, who (amoung other things) persuades you not to work too much of the time 21:52:48 bsmntbombdood: is the a question or a statement? 21:52:50 you think you'll get the job? 21:53:08 SimonRC: then why do they do your laundry? 21:57:23 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:59:35 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:02:14 lament: " they are going after tha academics" 22:02:21 Oh man 22:02:35 Irregular Webcomic #1667 is a good one 22:05:10 there's a forum thread betting on who is killed off... 22:07:31 if anyone 22:11:10 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 22:14:21 -!- turtletime has joined. 22:36:54 -!- sekhmet has quit ("omg no power!"). 22:40:17 -!- Shurique has quit (Connection timed out). 22:44:06 lament: The only theory I can think of is either overworking or they want you to spend your personal free time without dealing with mundane things. 22:59:39 -!- turtletime has quit. 23:21:30 -!- sekhmet has joined. 23:42:02 -!- importantshock has joined. 23:57:39 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 23:58:52 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 2007-08-23: 00:18:05 http://www.flickr.com/photos/71552015@N00/sets/72157601600913888/ 00:23:09 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:27:58 -!- turtletime has joined. 00:43:15 -!- ehird` has quit. 01:05:04 -!- turtletime has quit. 01:16:05 -!- turtletime has joined. 01:21:44 * SimonRC goes to bed. 01:32:45 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:33:00 -!- jix__ has joined. 01:37:13 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:38:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:19:39 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 02:20:38 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 02:39:31 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:12:50 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 03:18:28 -!- turtletime has quit. 03:37:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:01:42 -!- cpfr has left (?). 04:03:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 05:08:22 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:27:17 -!- ohcamacj has joined. 05:27:42 -!- ohcamacj has quit (Client Quit). 06:01:35 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:29:23 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 07:35:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:54:41 -!- immibis has joined. 07:54:47 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:10 -!- ivan` has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:17:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:03:51 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:35:02 -!- Figs has joined. 10:35:09 hello~! 10:48:46 -!- mouflon has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:49:09 -!- mouflon has joined. 11:03:38 anyone know what time zone RodgerTheGreat is in? 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00:24:44 Anyone use BFComp? 00:24:46 -!- importantshock has joined. 00:24:49 Hi importantshock 00:25:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:26:06 howdy 00:26:10 what's going on? 00:26:16 not much 00:26:18 * Sgeo is playing with BFC and PESOIX 00:26:20 WRU? 00:26:39 is it still called BFC? 00:27:05 western reserve? 00:27:10 it's a private high school now. 00:27:36 THat's not what I meant 00:27:46 http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcomp.html 00:27:55 ah. 00:28:22 i wrote my first interpreter for an esoteric language today! 00:28:56 congratulations importantshock 00:29:06 i'm totally thrilled with myself 00:29:10 :P 00:29:37 which? 00:31:12 HQ9+ 00:31:18 but i did it in Haskell! 00:31:23 which i am still learning 00:31:34 and getting an accumulator to work properly was a Herculean task 00:31:43 hahahaha 00:31:51 hey, don't laugh 00:31:53 i are not smart 00:32:09 ah, yes, Haskell FTW 00:32:31 You might find that monad transformers help greatly 00:32:35 no, i agree, incrementing the accumulator is certainly harder in haskell than it ought to be for the purpose of implementing HQ9+ 00:33:23 it's just a mind-bender wrapping my head around monads 00:33:41 I suppose you can just make a "lazy" implementation, that simply wouldn't increment the accumulator at all - that's in the spirit of haskell :) 00:34:10 lament: That was my first implementation :P 00:34:31 once you get monads you are above most programmers 00:34:36 or use IORefs, or use a StateT on top of IO 00:35:28 i went out and bought a book on Haskell today 00:35:31 are you using Parsec to parse it? :) 00:35:37 lament: yes, Parsec is awesome 00:35:45 are there equivalents in other languages? 00:35:54 right now my goal is to understand monads 00:36:14 you probably understand monads if you think parsec is awesome :) 00:36:58 believe me, i don't understand monads. i do understand how much better Parsec is than using regular expressions, though. 00:37:05 cue tired, but relevant, jwz quote. 00:37:50 and how come you're not in #haskell? 00:37:54 "1. If the PESOIX aware esotool has declared that it supports memory 00:37:54 cells, the current cell will be set to NUL." ick, that makes writing this thing harder 00:40:09 ISTR that Python has a library that is trivially equivalent to Parsec. Also C++. 00:40:19 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:40:34 although Python ++ circucular definition == pain 00:41:46 what is the python one called? 00:41:52 dunno 00:41:59 I have the name arouns somewhere... 00:44:46 pyparser, I think 00:46:07 pyparsing, i think 00:46:10 http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/ 00:47:02 -!- cosmic_string has joined. 00:52:15 Sgeo: PESOIX needs to be cleaned up. . . Near as I can tell, it requires much more access to interpreter state than I/O. 00:52:38 Also, an *interpreter* would be nice. 00:53:05 * Sgeo hates the alteration of memory 00:54:47 * pikhq proposes that the results of a PESOIX command shall be given on stdin. . . 00:55:29 Shall we call this room the International PESOIX 2 convention? :p 00:58:13 http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcomp.html needs more publicity 00:58:31 * Sgeo is writing a PESOIX library for BFC 00:58:44 Jeeze. . . 00:59:06 That's a remarkably inefficient macro language. 00:59:24 hm? 00:59:26 PFUCK's BFC rendition was nearly a megabyte. 00:59:35 PFUCK? 00:59:45 My Brainfuck->C compiler, now in PEBBLE. 01:00:33 PEBBLE? 01:00:50 *groan* 01:01:01 The Practicle Esoteric Brainfuck-Based Language, Eh? 01:01:06 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php 01:01:14 I've only been working on it for, what, a year? 01:01:22 (and obsessively talking about it) 01:01:36 pikhq: wow....just wow. 01:01:45 * importantshock kneels before pikhq 01:01:48 XD 01:04:50 * Sgeo wonders if BFC code could easily be converted into PEBBLE 01:08:54 I doubt it could be done the other way around.. PEBBLE is more expressive/powerful >.> 01:09:01 s/is/seems to be/ 01:11:16 Actually, the hard part would involve BFC's local variables. . . 01:11:49 PEBBLE, BTW, is to BFC as C is to C#. ;) 01:12:23 * Sgeo isn't aware of any "right" or "left" commands in BFC.. 01:12:35 '>'; 01:12:43 I meant by a variable number 01:13:11 Or do those commands only accept constants? 01:15:38 "right" and "left" only accept constants. . . 01:16:16 while condition {right 1} nets you a variable amount, just like '[>]'; does in BFC/BF polyglot. 01:16:25 -!- turtletime has quit. 01:17:48 Is it safe to say that [in PESOIX] 00h 00h will always be regular output 00h? 01:17:56 Like in EsoAPI? 01:18:04 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 01:18:09 Or are dialects allwoed to change that? 01:19:15 No idea. 01:23:44 [wrt Select Dialect] "A return code indicating sucess or failure will be placed on the input 01:23:44 channel, your application should read this value and respond 01:23:44 appropriately." 01:23:47 YAY 01:24:39 Return code 0 - PESOIX-SetDialect was successful 01:24:39 Return code 1 - PESOIX-SetDialect failed 01:24:52 hm, should I have the macro return those directly? 01:25:07 * Sgeo isn't even up to that yet though 01:29:21 oO 01:30:17 PESOIX specs for a PESOIX tool indicating that it does not support memory writes conflicts with non-PESOIX interpreters that might return 0 on first read.. e.g. EOF=0 and no input or something 01:31:29 -!- Figs has joined. 01:32:27 Ok, wrote pesoix_init() and p_out() 01:40:06 00h 00h should be reserved in all dialects, IMO 01:55:02 http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt some of those don't NEED PESOIX 01:55:28 * Sgeo will include a supplimentary BFC file to provide non-PESOIX versions of some of that stuff 01:57:02 * pikhq would like you to just write some PESOIX versions of PEBBLE macros. :p 01:57:34 ACRONYM of the ACRONYMING ACRONYM 01:57:36 Be back laterish 01:58:51 AOTAA: "AOTAA of the AOTTA AOTTA" 02:35:49 back 02:36:12 pikhq, hm? 02:37:43 baxk! 02:37:53 *back 02:37:58 wb Figs 02:38:06 thanks :D 02:38:15 * Sgeo should also write a Python implementation of PESOIX while he's at it 02:38:24 PESOIX? 02:40:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/PESOIX 02:41:09 http://jonripley.com/easel/ 02:42:03 http://www.badongo.com/file/4139332 02:42:08 new song ;) 02:42:21 feedback always appreciated :) 02:52:48 -!- turtletime has joined. 02:58:02 -!- turtletime has quit. 03:05:38 -!- cosmic_string has quit. 03:06:01 -!- turtletime has joined. 03:07:08 -!- turtletime has quit (Client Quit). 03:14:50 -!- turtletime has joined. 03:20:07 haha 03:20:12 this is a funny story on xkcd 03:20:14 "When I was a lot younger, say about five or so, we went on vacation in Germany (we did a trip a few countries in western Europe), that is my mom and dad, my older brother, myself and my younger brother, who was about three. 03:20:14 03:20:14 We go to a restaurant and everyone orders and then the waiter brings drinks or something (don't remember exactly what). So my dad says "Thank you", my mom says "thank you", my older brother does and me as well. However, my younger brother says "fuck you"." 03:20:18 (the forums) 03:20:57 -!- turtletime has quit. 03:21:42 Would a Python non-memory-altering PESOIX interpreter be appreciated? 03:22:45 Given that it'd be the first one ever, yes. 03:22:57 first PESOIX interpreter ever? 03:23:03 I do believe so. 03:23:07 yayayay! 03:23:18 * Sgeo 's code will probably be filled with WTFs though :/ 03:23:38 * Sgeo is a WTF.. 03:25:02 haven't you ever seen anything I've written? I'm gonna give DailyWTF a run for its money one of these days... 03:31:16 -!- turtletime has joined. 03:43:17 -!- Chuck_ has joined. 04:04:41 -!- turtletime has quit. 04:18:37 * Sgeo unilaterally decides his PESOIX interpreter will have a semantic deviation from the current PESOIX spec 04:18:52 this thread is epic 04:18:55 156 pages 04:19:08 That's natural. 04:19:22 The current PESOIX spec is difficult to impossible. 04:19:30 lol 04:19:41 * Sgeo simply wants 00h 00h to print NUL regardless of dialect 04:19:47 isn't that ... appropriate for an esolang? 04:21:00 Also, I don't have the sort of skill necessary for the PESOIX interpreter to ask the user upon each dangerous PESOIX operation :/ 04:21:36 * Sgeo might have them enablable from switch, and have it ALWAYS write to stderr 04:38:00 -!- Chuck_ has left (?). 04:59:15 how do i train megahal? 04:59:22 his man page is not so manly 05:00:06 you talk to him 05:00:08 that's it. 05:00:14 give it testosterone injections 05:00:14 or use the training file 05:00:31 it should autotrain if the file is detected 05:00:41 otherwise just talk to him and he'll learn from you.' 05:13:22 arg 05:13:24 argh 05:13:46 If I use Python's select.select, that would mean PESOIX couldn't run on Windows 05:13:54 PESOIX would need POSIX >.> 05:27:57 Next version of PESOIX should be called PESOX >.> 05:28:11 http://www.physorg.com/news107109720.html 05:31:57 In fact, I think I'm not going to implement PESOIX 05:32:01 PESOX, here I come 05:32:05 But not now 05:32:08 I need to sleep 05:32:17 do what you will. 05:32:21 do no harm. 05:32:22 :D 05:32:27 go forth. 05:32:36 ooo, i got it 05:32:45 rename a huge txt file megahal.trn 05:33:18 I usually just talk to it for a few hours 05:33:21 more fun that way 05:35:11 mmm, especially if you do megahal | espeak 05:35:29 espeak? 05:36:41 text to speech for stdin 05:37:58 probably should disable type writter mode then... 05:38:25 Hm 05:38:37 * Sgeo HATES HATES HATES the idea of PESOIX writing to memory 05:39:02 'writing to memory'? 05:39:19 I mean, I don't want to name something PESOX unless it's substantially different, but my ideas aren't PESOIX 05:39:39 Figs, PESOIX can sometime write directly to a cell-based esolangs' cells 05:39:43 e.g. Brainfuck 05:39:50 * Sgeo hates that idea 05:39:55 why? 05:40:18 It means that fewer esolangs will work with PESOIX 05:40:27 to PESOIX's full capacity, I mean 05:40:57 don't do it then? 05:41:02 It also means that to add those features, I'd need to integrate PESOIX with the esolang's interpreter 05:41:16 wouldn't you need to anyway? 05:41:23 No 05:41:27 why not? 05:41:32 I can make a wrapper around an interpreter 05:41:36 Treat it like a blackbox 05:41:48 With me modifying stdin and sdtout 05:41:54 ... 05:41:56 Because that's how PESOIX communicates.. 05:41:58 ok 05:42:07 when it isn't modifying memory 05:42:14 then don't modify memory? 05:42:26 Thus what he's saying. 05:42:43 I miss the problem. 05:42:49 *ed 05:43:02 There are some things in the PESOIX spec that say "modify memory, or don't include this".. I want to include it, but via stdin/stdout 05:43:32 then do something else? 05:43:44 PESGEOX 05:43:50 or something 05:44:05 * Sgeo was thinking PESOX, but that should really be for something really new, IMO 05:44:13 call it PNP and really confuse people 05:44:23 PNP's Not PESOIX... 05:44:29 lol 05:44:57 or better, call it PNP-PESOIX 05:45:09 PNP's Not PESOIX - PESOIX 05:45:34 PESOX is funny too *defending name* 05:45:43 IX -> X 05:45:49 9 -> 10 05:45:58 * Figs gives Sgeo a pair of socks 05:46:02 call it PSOX 05:46:50 hehe 05:47:07 am I the only one who gets *really* embaressed by accidently unplugging the headphones? 05:47:18 even when what comes out is perfectly legit? 05:47:20 :P 05:49:23 Why PSOX? 05:50:35 Figs: hehe, me too 05:51:15 Semantic difference between PESOIX and PESOX: 00h 00h in PESOX is always print NUL 05:51:31 PESOIX is the same, because both existant dialects do that, but there's a semantic difference 05:54:34 Just be sure to document your changes. 05:56:39 Will do 05:56:44 PESOX will have versioning 05:57:05 I only have a vague idea now, and it's time to go to sleep 05:57:08 G'night all 05:59:58 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:08:55 "bye" 06:09:39 hey Eidolos, have you seen jamendo.com? 06:11:02 nope 06:11:17 take a look 06:11:26 free legal music by independant artists :D] 06:11:38 some of it is even good 06:11:43 legal is over rated 06:12:19 yeah, well, if you're a soon-to-be-college student in the US like me... 06:12:20 if it's not legal, they can put you in jail for 5 months, along with forcing you to use windows for the 5 months after that 06:12:23 ^.^ 06:12:43 I already use windows... :S 06:13:08 poor guy 06:13:42 Eeeeew. 06:14:01 indeed 06:14:09 bsmntbombdood: As far as I'm concerned, that's cruel and unusual punishment. 06:14:10 * Figs drips windex on you 06:14:38 his internet connection is monitored, that's pretty cruel too 06:14:45 Yeah. 06:15:05 I'd probably set up a script to just show goatse to the log for those 5 months. 06:15:46 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/PESOIX <<< if this is the PESOIX spec, you people are seriously skilled at reading between then lines 06:16:32 :P 06:16:34 hi oklokok 06:17:10 * Figs mentions the word "piano" and tries to see if psychology has any merits... 06:17:27 :DD 06:17:30 :P 06:17:39 i played guitar a bit the other day 06:17:57 http://www.badongo.com/file/4139332 06:18:14 pikhq: goatse may be considered obscene (illegal) in the US 06:19:03 oklokok, take a look at my link :D 06:19:11 so you get hit with parole violation and transporting obscenity 06:19:18 bsmntbombdood: The definition for obscenity is fairly loose. 06:19:29 yes 06:19:41 http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt <<< oh, this is actually pretty cool 06:19:45 considering a guy got put away for 10 years for selling lightbulbs... 06:19:48 Figs: i'm getting there 06:19:53 And given that the goatse pic comes from an actual sold collection of porn pictures, it seems likely to me that it would not fit that definition. 06:20:36 pikhq: in that case, it applies to prurient interest 06:21:08 it could be considered to depict excretory or sexual functions in an offensive way 06:21:20 pikhq: And given that the goatse pic comes from an actual sold collection of porn pictures, it seems likely to me that it would not fit that definition. <- then wouldn't you be violating copyright law by illegally downloading porn? 06:21:32 Fuck; you would. 06:21:33 and it could be said to lack serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value 06:21:40 hence, it could be said to be obscene 06:21:59 The same applies to some of what passes for 'art' today. 06:22:00 at first I though you just said "fuck you" :P 06:22:49 bsmntbombdood: It has uh, historical value... uh, to the development of the internet... uh, yeah... really! :P 06:23:23 well, i'm going to go to sleep and dream of anal stretching and how its depictions relate to obscenity laws 06:23:38 hahah 06:23:49 http://www.answers.com/topic/p-emoticon-shouting?cat=technology <<< i'm pretty sure that's wrong, or at least an obsolete definition 06:23:54 glad we could help to further *stretch* your imagination... 06:24:04 *open* your mind... 06:24:08 i want a bumper sticker that says "i fap to goatse" 06:24:18 o.o 06:24:24 :S 06:24:38 where di you get your name bsmntbombdood? 06:24:39 along with maybe a E03 06:24:45 people would yawn from all the old when they saw that 06:24:54 ----> bed 06:24:55 "bull shit mountain bomb dude"? 06:25:33 or did I totally misinterpret your name? :S 06:25:37 bed, eh? 06:25:42 well tell me later then ^.^ 06:25:59 oklokok, I just mistyped your name as "kolokoko" 06:26:22 :P 06:26:27 did you listen? 06:26:44 just scramble a few o's, k's and l's and you get pretty near. 06:26:50 and i'm getting to it! 06:27:14 lokoloko! 06:27:39 oklolo 06:28:11 * Figs sees he's getting to oklokok~! 06:28:22 successful attack of the secret ninja man! 06:29:12 o 06:29:22 hmm... 06:29:34 i opened your song link twice, but it's not open. 06:29:40 great 06:29:41 ? 06:29:44 give it a third time? :) 06:29:47 http://www.badongo.com/file/4139332 06:32:43 now listening 06:32:53 yay 06:34:11 blargh... can't hear a thing 06:34:17 i'll redl the file.. 06:34:26 o.o 06:34:52 it won 06:34:59 't play it 06:35:02 .| 06:35:18 turn up your volume? 06:35:21 Figs: basement 06:35:29 i was just listening to another mid :P 06:35:30 ? 06:35:42 headphones :D 06:35:52 so... i'm pretty sure i have volume 06:35:53 can you hear it at alll? 06:36:00 headphone hole not work 06:36:05 :'( 06:36:17 i can no-at all hear. 06:36:25 hm 06:36:27 >.< 06:36:30 I dunno then 06:36:37 works fine here, obviously :P 06:37:21 eh 06:37:22 hmm 06:37:35 i imported it into guitar pro, and i got a score. 06:37:39 now listening. 06:37:41 :D 06:37:48 WHUT 06:37:56 i see the notes, but it won't play xD 06:38:03 O_o 06:38:08 hehe wtf? :P 06:38:54 *sigh* :P 06:39:05 I guess no one shall ever hear my song then 06:39:48 okay... made it into a gp4 song and reopened, i can hear it now! 06:39:51 now listening! 06:39:57 YAY 06:41:17 relisten 06:42:39 pretty nice 06:43:28 thanks ;) 06:43:34 Any suggestions? 06:43:59 was afraid it'd turn out overly trivial at first, because of the basic chord pattern, but it quickly evolved and proved me wrong 06:44:02 hmm 06:50:22 can't say i do, the long chords are a bit ...i lose the word here 06:50:58 long chords? 06:51:26 i don't see anything wrong with stopping a quick run in a long note, but it somewhat kills the "go" :P 06:51:39 i really seem to have forgotten all my vocabulary. 06:52:04 long chords 06:52:31 i mean... a chord you play for the whole bar 06:53:04 they work well when you do the prefixing ghost note... eh, i mean, the ti-dii xD 06:53:16 ? 06:53:35 time position? 06:53:36 this is very hard to explain without being able to sing what i mean. 06:53:52 you can just give me time positions :D 06:54:10 i could, if i wasn't playing from guitar pro 06:54:20 bar numbers? 06:54:28 note names? 06:55:08 I see what you mean though 06:55:11 hmm... i'll have to retract that statement, there's nothing wrong with doing that, really 06:55:31 I think I over-do it a bit though for a 1:12 song 06:55:56 okay 06:56:21 what i'd do, is i'd make left play short low melodies when the chord stops 06:56:35 yeah. 06:56:41 hold on a second 06:57:20 well okay, i'd make it slash a few very low octaves in a rapid manner, but you do something less theatrical, merecommends :P 06:58:24 if you do the leftie melody, you get the stop, but the melody continues anyhow 06:58:27 http://www.badongo.com/file/4140970 06:59:03 similar to the later parts of this? 06:59:25 there was nothing wrong with that as it was, though, i just feel obligated to give a suggestion when asked. 06:59:27 but i'll listen 06:59:41 well, you're right though 06:59:46 my piece doesn't flow too well 07:00:02 it's like 'move move move stop.... move move move stop...." 07:00:28 it's a problem caused by my use of 4-bar patterns 07:00:41 okay 07:00:56 bar 20 is where it doesn't sound that good, i think all the other long bars work 07:01:38 and 36 might need some spicing up, since at that point you're kinda *going for the big final* 07:02:18 at the beginning it doesn't have to be that flowsome, since you're just introducing the theme 07:02:45 what did you think of bar 8? 07:02:54 and i think you do the stops pretty well when the melody starts 07:02:58 wait 07:03:19 it works 07:04:06 it's fine stopping like that before starting a new theme 07:04:20 the "ghost" thing you meant was bar 16 maybe? 07:04:22 plus, left hand makes it obvious there's a stop ahead 07:04:36 because of the... *oklokok sings what he means* 07:04:39 ... 07:04:43 :P 07:05:23 hmm... just play leftie in the beginning and you'll know what i mean 07:05:26 there's a lot I could still do with this, actually 07:05:31 especially since you pointed it out 07:05:48 the last rise into the chord makes it work, but i'll see about bar 16 07:06:12 12 would be blunt if you didn't continue right away 07:06:35 and i think that somehow also justifies bar 16 being long 07:07:03 and yeah, the quick not before 16 is exactly something you might do when doing a long chord 07:07:30 but 16 might need a left-hand melody there or something, it might be a *bit* too long 07:08:00 the issue is basically with the rhythm of the "cadences" (not sure if that term is meant to apply outside of chords, but meh, I'll use it) 07:08:30 17-28 is your main problem area iyam 07:09:00 do you like the rhythm of the non-stop areas in that? 07:09:41 yeah, good old afterbeat 07:09:45 or whaddyacallit 07:09:48 :P 07:10:19 it's basically the first part repeated with the notes that fuck up the harmony removed 07:10:25 I thought it sounded kind of cool 07:10:49 I think I also shifted it down 07:11:50 i see what you mean by that, though i didn't know you'd generated the melody that wayt 07:11:52 *way 07:11:56 :) 07:12:02 and yeah, it sounds pretty cool 07:12:04 thanks 07:12:40 but i recall you having some more complex rhythms in a song sometime... don't remember where exactly 07:13:03 I play with rhythm occasionally 07:13:08 you shifted cde -> abc 07:13:13 yeah 07:14:30 i was thinking of making myself a game that generates melodies and you have to note up the melody 07:14:58 hehe :P 07:15:05 you could sell it to music majors 07:15:15 they have to do that stuff to get their degree 07:15:30 would be fun to make different melody generators, plus that'd be a much more natural way for me to improve my ear than making scores for existing songs 07:15:47 :P 07:16:07 there are some notes I can tell 07:16:10 most I have no idea 07:16:16 but G is one of them... 07:16:21 when played on the midi pian 07:16:23 *piano 07:16:28 oh 07:16:35 if you can find G, it's trivial finding the rest 07:16:41 I can usually always tell the G above the treble cleff 07:17:03 actually no 07:17:05 it wasn't the piano 07:17:09 it was the vibraphone... :P 07:17:48 heh, i have the occasional skill of knowing what tone a key on my piano will produce, but that's it 07:17:59 the program wouldn't ask you for absolute noting 07:18:16 well i guess it could on harder levels or smth. 07:18:35 well, that's basically what it is 07:18:44 I just got used to particular notes my program makes 07:18:56 I can't apply it to other instruments very well 07:19:50 I think I could be relatively decent at playing things I've heard in the key of A minor 07:19:59 with a bit of practice 07:21:50 if you play metal, i can usually memorize a piece on a few hearings and play it straight away 07:22:23 pop music is just as easy, but classic has too many details for that 07:22:28 yeah 07:24:55 (metal can have a lot of details too, i'm talking about the majority of cases where only the guitar solo is complex :)) 07:25:02 :P 07:28:16 you can't play guitar pro? 07:28:42 ? 07:28:55 can you play guitar pro? 07:29:11 Guitar Pro 07:29:17 play guitar pro? The program? 07:29:21 I don't own it. 07:29:29 and I can't play guitar :P 07:29:48 i meant the program 07:30:03 i'd've given you a few songs, if you'd had that 07:30:33 I need to write a music editing program 07:40:10 ah, lament, you once recommended me to read "in search for lost time" or however it's called in english 07:40:40 it's a russian book, so i made the assumption you have something to do with the language or the country. 07:41:28 dunno if that's the only reason i had a feeling you know russian before you told me... guess my brain digs 'em up sooner or later, if there were other quotes. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:27:20 -!- Figs has left (?). 09:30:13 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:06:22 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:06:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:11:48 -!- lizendir has joined. 11:26:58 -!- lizendir has quit ("leaving"). 12:16:58 -!- turtletime has joined. 12:21:12 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:05:02 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:27:34 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 14:51:14 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:09:20 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:09:33 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:11:22 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Client Quit). 16:11:34 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:35:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:34:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:38:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:41:25 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 17:43:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BF_machine 17:44:10 * Sgeo thinks that maybe that could become part of PESOX 17:49:11 whats PESOX? 17:49:46 My idea of a sort of improved PESOIX 17:51:31 ah 17:53:37 Is there anything that uses PESOIX out there? 17:53:52 Because PESOX will be generally incompatible :/ 17:58:56 Does anything use EsoAPI? 18:01:05 -!- keyn has joined. 18:01:13 Hi keyn 18:01:21 * Sgeo pokes pikhq 18:05:27 hi Sgeo 18:11:03 -!- rechercher has left (?). 18:34:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:38:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:47:39 re pikhq 19:07:09 -!- oklokok has joined. 19:10:44 Hi oklokok 19:19:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:22:50 Hi sebbu 19:22:53 sebbu2, 19:37:56 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 19:38:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:45:43 -!- lhadie has joined. 19:45:49 Hi lhadie 19:45:56 Um.. hi.. 19:46:43 -!- gnomon has left (?). 19:58:44 -!- turtletime has quit. 20:11:29 * Sgeo tries to stay focused on PESOX 20:31:19 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:41:51 hmm 20:42:03 * Sgeo makes output NUL be 0x00 0x00 0x00 instead of 0x00 20:42:05 erm 20:42:09 instead of 0x00 0x00 20:45:59 -!- keyn has quit ("kaerimashou"). 20:46:13 hm n/m 20:46:34 0x00 0x00-0x03 will be reserved by PESOX :/ 20:50:05 Actually only 0x00 0x00-0x02 20:51:53 hm, afaict, exit with 0 will be 0x00 0x02 0x00 0x00 0x03 0x00 20:52:25 0x00 0x02 0x00 20:52:31 0x00 0x03 0x00 20:52:42 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:52:51 0x00 0x02 0x00 - switch to domain 0 20:52:56 0x00 0x03 0x00 - exit(0) 20:53:02 Hi RedDak 20:53:38 oegs ih! 20:55:52 Make that: 0x00 0x01 0x00 - switch to domain 0 20:56:01 0x00 0x02 0x00 -exit(0) 21:00:15 * Sgeo goes to try to write a PESOX bf program 21:01:34 .+++++++.-------.,[-]..,[-].+.-..++.--. 21:02:50 0x00 0x07 [init] 0x00 [majorver] 0x00 0x00 [minorver] 0x00 0x01 0x00 [domainswitch to 0x00] 0x00 0x02 0x00 [exit0] 21:05:17 I would think that PEBBLE already has a library to handle PESOIX 21:05:59 oO hm? 21:06:51 :/ 21:06:57 Where? 21:09:20 * Sgeo hopes not, because so far PESOX is completely incompatible with EsoAPI and PESOIX 21:11:53 * Sgeo realizes that domain0 won't work.. *changes PESOX-System domain to 0x01* 21:12:17 Actually, I don't even have that in the spec 21:12:21 *changes it mentally* 21:20:18 actually, I can use domain0 21:37:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:38:39 Hi oerjan 21:39:32 hi Sgeo 21:41:12 * Sgeo keeps working on PESOX 21:43:10 "Please note that PESOX, as described here, is in no way whatsoever backwards compatible with either PESOIX or EsoAPI 1.0.. if there is enough demand, I might eventually try to figure out how to fix that.." 21:45:41 I thought there was a versioning thingy... 21:45:57 Within PESOX versions 21:46:27 ROT-26 bitches 22:02:33 Sgeo: please do not choose a name that looks like a misprint for the name of an existing product in the same field. 22:02:39 PESOX vs PEOSIX 22:02:44 um 22:02:48 PESOX vs PESOIX 22:02:58 that was intentional 22:03:32 hm 22:03:35 Would PSOX be ok? 22:03:48 That was suggested by someone else 22:03:53 * Sgeo already forgot who 22:04:59 It IS largely inspired by PESOIX though.. 22:05:56 how about psocks? 22:06:09 no, wait, that sounds like a sockets library 22:06:31 So PSOX is out? 22:06:41 hmm 22:06:45 no, it is good 22:07:06 although something with a really contorted actronym would be good too 22:07:23 Someone suggested PNP for PNP is Not PESOIX 22:07:38 And then PNP-PESOIX 22:08:47 PP? 22:08:54 pseudo-PESOIX 22:09:25 Sgeo: what's your IRL name? 22:09:39 * Sgeo tries to avoid giving that out 22:10:25 POSGEX? 22:11:05 SimonRC: it's Osama bin Laden, just don't tell anyone 22:12:10 the famous one or a diferent one? 22:12:36 there is a different one? 22:12:49 yes 22:20:37 PSOX so far: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 22:22:17 * Sgeo pokes SimonRC and oerjan 22:22:46 Sgeo: don't give anyone your name on the internet 22:22:49 you see, nobody has your name 22:22:53 your name is completely unique 22:22:55 and there is a secret website 22:23:02 where internet stalkers can find your address, picture, and phone number 22:23:06 just through your unique name 22:23:16 actally that last bit is effectively true 22:23:34 not if you haven't posted your address, picture and phone number on the internet 22:23:49 well - you can get address+phone number if you've registered an unprotected domain 22:24:09 Any comments on PSOX? 22:24:43 I heard that people can get your address even if you have never posted it on the Internet. 22:25:07 It's via a system called "Earth". 22:25:07 SimonRC: umm how 22:25:09 heh 22:25:17 :) 22:25:34 Every address of anyone (AFAIK) is present on the Earth 22:27:11 * SimonRC thinks that "references" is a fun word to type on a qwerty keyboard 22:28:11 references 22:28:15 references 22:28:16 references 22:28:19 references 22:28:20 references 22:28:25 references 22:28:27 references 22:28:29 references 22:28:31 what's fun about it? 22:28:48 No comments on PSOX? 22:32:21 The first 7 letters 22:32:38 or maybe just the first 6 22:32:49 you just want to type refereferefereferefer... 22:32:57 no you don't 22:33:00 refereferefere 22:33:01 no 22:33:02 i don't 22:33:03 :p 22:33:15 oh, never mind 22:33:54 PSOX, people! PSOX! 22:36:04 hm 22:37:59 how many bytes are each $foo_VER 22:38:45 1 22:39:49 Although the specs will include a way to specify, at any point, an arbitrary size number 22:41:12 you can do such things UTF-style or BER-style 22:41:59 the former is obvious, the latter means that "0xxx xxxx" == end-of-number, "1xxx xxxx" == number continues 22:42:09 understand? 22:42:44 I understand the latter, but what's UTF? 22:43:15 *UTF-style 22:43:20 STFW 22:43:34 What does unicode have to do with arbitrary-size numbers? 22:44:08 sigh 22:44:53 UTF is a way of encoding quite wide numbers so that the small ones fit in one byte, but there is still a way to encode the large ones 22:45:30 UTF-8 maps 21-bit codepoints onto (strings of) 8-bit bytes 22:52:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:59:28 unicode is only 21-bits? 22:59:37 why is it UTF-32 instead of UTF-24 then? 22:59:49 alignment issues 23:00:05 existing 32-bit character sets? 23:03:53 Any comments on the rest of the spec? 23:10:37 seems good so far 23:10:50 what are the default namespace mappings? 23:11:01 obviously you need 0 = system 23:12:28 brb 23:21:13 back 23:21:23 Well, considering I haven't defined other domains yet.. 23:21:32 There definately will be a File I/O 23:21:37 And Date/Time 23:21:54 * Sgeo will probably start off with the functionality of Project Easel 23:22:18 "Returns number of parameters passed to program on the 23:22:18 command line." Maybe that should go into 0? 23:24:34 hmm 23:26:28 make sure that you can fetch date and time together atomically 23:32:17 How would that work? 23:32:42 n/m 23:33:10 oO Project Easel doesn't have that, yet PSOX will =P 23:33:14 to stop the day-change falling in-between 23:33:20 lol: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/Arsonade/ZorkTfrontcopy.jpg 23:44:11 hm 23:44:44 * Sgeo wonders if he should really hold onto the idea of some domains (even domains) being premapped 2007-08-25: 00:13:08 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:15:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("Leaving"). 01:13:39 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 01:32:56 hmm 01:33:12 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:33:21 Maybe instead of the encodings SimonRC was mentioning, I could, in necessary places, use NUL-terminated numbers 01:33:35 nah 01:33:51 hm? 01:33:51 7 bits-per-byte with an indicator bit at the top is better 01:34:04 it is shorter for any case you will encounter 01:34:16 Which is easier for an esolang to process? 01:35:01 your way 01:35:07 :) 01:35:10 which is why we should do it my way 01:35:16 !! 01:35:20 Huh? 01:35:30 If it was supposed to be easy people wouldn;t be using brainfuck 01:35:43 PSOX isn't just for Brainfuck 01:35:59 And why make things harder then they already are? 01:36:58 Easel-PESOIX had some convenience functions >.> 01:38:47 Maybe the even domains shouldn't have longnames.. 01:40:30 hm 01:40:41 use the befunge system? 01:45:04 hm? 01:53:31 http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html#Fingerprints 01:54:29 Ty SimonRC 01:55:32 there are ones for time travel, graphics, roman numerals, etc 01:57:40 hm.. 01:57:48 * SimonRC wonders how many people other than befunge programmers know what a "discrete lahey space" is 01:58:18 My system doesn't allow overlaps, but do we need overlaps? 01:58:27 What would overlaps in PSOX mean? 01:58:46 dunno 01:58:56 nick the applicaable good bits and leave the rest 01:59:04 And my system doesn't require registration, unless you count a URL or email address in your possession registration.. 01:59:12 it is a language feature not a dinner 01:59:36 my impression is that Lahey was a befunge programmer and the term was invented there 02:00:02 I never heard of him elsewhere 02:00:06 any specific evidence? 02:00:40 An equivelent of handprints may be useful.. 02:00:44 lessee, Chris Lahey is mentioned in wikipedia on befunge 02:01:04 ah, google agrees 02:01:25 [0x00 0x01 0x00] 0x00 0x08 could return a string similar to domain longnames.. 02:01:28 I must ask a mathematician what the proper name is.. 02:02:46 Domains are like tame extensions that don't overlap 02:03:15 And even domains don't need to be loaded in any way 02:03:29 http://quadium.net/funge/downloads/bef93src/ proves that he was a befunge programmer 02:03:35 even domains/custom domains 02:03:44 even is opposite of custom 02:03:47 not odd 02:04:21 I was just givin inspiration 02:05:39 * SimonRC goes to bed 02:06:42 * oerjan will too 02:06:49 G'night SimonRC 02:07:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:30:15 * Sgeo wonders if anyone else is in here 02:36:18 * Sgeo is reserving domain1 as a Shortcut Pseudo-domain 02:38:07 or not.. 02:50:26 * Sgeo reserves 0x00 0x02 as 'call shortcut' 03:01:59 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:06:07 Hi pikhq 03:06:10 Hi pikhq_ 03:07:17 pikhq_, you there? 03:13:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:15:34 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 03:17:50 -!- cmeme has joined. 03:46:13 Hi cmeme 03:51:15 -!- navaburo has joined. 03:51:37 ahh.. ok, anyone have a mod operator implementation in bf? 03:51:59 i have been working on this for two hours with no luck 04:01:19 navaburo, hold on 04:01:29 * Sgeo goes to translate bfc into bf by hand 04:02:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:02:20 * Sgeo gets lost 04:02:31 chyea... its not that important 04:02:40 well... how could it be? 04:03:47 i thought around 6 tonight, hey, i should write a bf interpreter in scheme... 04:04:16 then, realizing that I knew neither language, i decided i would write a prime number lister in bf 04:04:45 i got the looping, mov/copy, and adding on the lock-down, and i finally got division to work 04:04:54 but modulus just made my head turn inside out 04:06:48 Maybe examine the logic of bfc's _mod? 04:07:42 http://pastebin.ca/669810 04:08:58 thx 04:09:09 yw 04:10:06 opinion wanted: does the Ultimate RISC's assembler language qualify as esoteric? 04:10:12 http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/ 04:15:51 well... i suppose it is after reading some more 05:21:32 -!- ihope_ has joined. 05:21:42 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 05:39:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 06:23:39 -!- turtletime has joined. 06:39:23 -!- turtletime has quit (Client Quit). 07:15:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 07:15:29 -!- jcc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:15:56 -!- jcc_ has joined. 07:16:10 -!- jcc_ has changed nick to jcc. 07:34:04 -!- lhadie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:05 -!- keyn has joined. 08:32:55 -!- keyn has left (?). 08:57:50 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:04:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:12:11 -!- RedDak has joined. 09:28:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:13:53 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:17:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:27:54 navaburo: actualy that exists 10:28:09 the idea is called a move-triggered architecture or somethinglike that 10:28:56 e.g. you don't tell it to multiply, you tell it to move things to the inputs of the multiplier, then a few cycles later you tell it to do somethign with the output of the multiplier 10:29:25 the only way to use these is via a compiler that can calculate all the instruction delays correctly 10:29:35 still a PITA to use 10:38:38 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:26:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:26:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:55:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:56:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:58:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:39:37 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:29:01 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:31:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner"). 14:56:32 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:07:46 -!- d3w has quit ("AVAST!"). 15:20:22 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:20:41 -!- lhadie has joined. 16:34:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:07:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 19:19:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:36:51 -!- lhadie has quit. 19:39:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:10:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:15:28 -!- ihope has joined. 20:16:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:25:25 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 20:29:15 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:34:43 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:43:19 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:44:06 -!- ihope_ has joined. 20:44:18 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 22:27:11 graphics in brainfuck anyone? http://hotwigati.blogspot.com/ 22:28:03 that interpreter makes the memory cells of bf the video memory..... tada! graphics in bf 22:34:37 -!- ihope has quit (Success). 22:42:56 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:43:07 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 22:58:35 navaburo: ooh 23:00:26 SimonRC: look, i drew a box! yeah! 23:01:05 actually, my example kinda sucks. the best part is the 'abstract art' you get from running other apps 23:01:33 like the decss run through two brainfuck vms in bf 23:04:19 Abstract art? Sounds fun! 23:05:51 the problem with it is that the graphics are 2D, and bf works in 1D 23:06:09 so i just wrap the mem around the screen, like written text would 23:06:22 problem there is that it becomes unnatural to move the pointer vertically 23:07:03 BF unnatural, never! 23:07:03 maybe i should use a 2D bf dialect... with the symbols v and ^ in addition to > and < for moving the pointer 23:07:40 but ^ and v are just equivalent to long strings of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 23:08:01 and decent Bf-to-C compiler will abbreviate appropriately 23:09:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:12:29 give bf a 2d array 23:13:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:13:46 you start in the top array, 0th element, v moves to the next lower array, ^ to the higher 23:14:11 i am sure that has already been done 23:14:16 check the wiki 23:42:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:43:22 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:47:00 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:59:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 2007-08-26: 00:03:06 bsmntbombdood: yes that is what i meant 00:04:10 SimonRC: well... ^ and v are equ to strings of >> and <<, but the length of those >>> stirngs changes with the graphics geometry 00:09:09 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:16:38 stoned, and just made out with a 24 year-old when I helped her to deal with traumatic experience 00:16:53 also drunk at the point of almost vomiting 00:17:00 and 18 year old meself 00:17:17 and she is my new-found "stepsister" 00:17:20 comments ? 00:17:33 and you are now coding so esolangs? 00:17:41 thats pretty fsked up 00:17:42 I'm interested in them 00:18:12 Really, I just came here by reddit 00:18:26 And have found it fun to observe 00:18:35 sorry.. this is rediculous 00:18:51 I just had nowhere to go to youknow ? 00:19:21 reddit, is that like digg? 00:19:21 If i'd have shared this with someone I know it'd had spread like a bushfire 00:19:34 It's better than digg imo 00:19:45 i have heard lots aboutit lately 00:19:59 no apple fanboys and no total retards 00:20:02 same system as digg? 00:20:07 well that can change 00:20:14 just pseud-intellectuals and snobbish types 00:20:35 It's not so much linear than digg 00:21:00 Because the front page is deteriorating with time 00:21:19 you were linked HERE from reddit? 00:21:33 or a post is something like rank=points*something/age*something 00:21:36 yes 00:21:39 a few days ago 00:22:07 there was a link to the irp page on the wiki 00:22:08 I was going to "program" something "funny" in this IRP thing 00:22:17 but i was too shy 00:22:37 fuck! there's a fly scavengin for scraps 00:22:43 in my fsking forearm ! 00:22:58 Tickles + annoys as hell 00:23:13 but it just keeps coming back if i shoo it away 00:23:24 well, live and let live i guess 00:23:47 gahh... 00:23:54 what an annoying creature 00:24:12 allthough marvelous, the common housefly 00:24:31 put them in a freezer their systems stop completely 00:24:42 and thaw them and they begin to fly 00:24:55 impressive imo 00:25:47 drink enough deet to bring your blood percentage up to ~ 5% 00:26:01 Deet ? 00:26:04 what's that 00:26:27 N,N-diethyl-m-toluamide 00:26:28 Bug repellant? 00:26:39 for a moment i thought bsmntbombdood had stumbled trying to write "beer" 00:26:41 Ohh 00:26:49 oerjan me too 00:27:10 that would probably work too 00:27:11 I thought he was going to think i'm a smartass for pointing out a typo 00:27:28 Well deet is an american product 00:27:31 ? 00:27:59 THAT FLY IS MADDENING 00:28:20 But it just keeps coming back 00:28:49 what does it want from my skin ? 00:29:00 I'm that dirty ?! 00:29:47 Kill it? 00:29:58 I cant ! :D 00:30:05 as i stated, i am stoned and drunk 00:30:24 Do you have a gas mask? 00:30:29 his reflexes greatly outnumber my speed and accuracy 00:30:39 I dont' unfortunately 00:30:52 Perhaps you could pay someone to remove it 00:30:55 I've got a half-mask with a gas filter though 00:31:02 It's 2.30 AM 00:31:06 Or maybe wear more clothes? 00:31:17 i want an SCBA 00:31:17 ! 00:31:20 trick it out of the house? 00:31:22 Huh? 00:31:24 that IS a solution 00:31:30 wear more clothes 00:31:32 brilliant 00:31:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out). 00:31:40 Socks, pants, long-sleeve shirt, possibly gloves, possibly hat, possibly scarf... 00:32:02 But then i'm afraid it's only option would be my skin 00:32:05 *face 00:32:17 Scarves need not go around only the neck. 00:32:28 hood + balaclava + ski googles 00:32:29 duh 00:32:41 True 00:32:52 but to go through every closet now 00:32:54 ..nahg 00:33:08 you can make a suitable balaclava from a tshirt 00:33:21 "balaclava" ? 00:33:49 ohh 00:34:07 again wikipedia made my english vocabulary larger 00:34:16 * oerjan starts wondering if the fly has the upper hand on intelligence too 00:34:22 procure an NBC suit 00:34:33 Hey, english is not my native language 00:34:41 although technically it doesn't have hands 00:35:01 balaclava isn't exactly the word that comes around in the everyday irc conversation 00:35:29 so yeah, oerjan 00:35:33 what about balalaika? 00:35:42 tell me the word in some other language you know 00:35:52 balalaika is an instument 00:36:04 "Balalaikka" in Finnish 00:37:43 there happens to be an NBC suit in my closet 00:38:10 you're prepared. 00:38:30 but why do you have one ? 00:38:39 can't remember 00:38:51 you're just really careful or it's from work or smth 00:39:08 might have been a halloween costume 00:40:20 i wonder how much one would cost 00:40:42 something like $15-20 iirc 00:40:56 wow.. 00:41:07 I want one too then 00:41:07 it's like your own personal portable steam room 00:43:00 tong tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I 00:43:03 pfft 00:43:38 tongue* :P 00:43:58 quoting pink floyd is not allowed 00:44:17 why not ? 00:44:32 too good or too bad 00:44:34 ? 00:44:42 fsking question mark 00:44:48 fsking word fsking 00:44:51 because i just felt like saying that 00:45:20 Any recommendations on music ? 00:45:56 to a fellow floyd fan? The Gods and Czar 00:48:06 some UG band ? 00:48:23 well those are two bands 00:49:32 i just use Pandora 00:51:08 alcohol 00:51:13 what an useless drug 00:54:12 Indeed, many drugs are useless. 00:55:15 Oh, and how about Toccata and Fugue in D minor? I find smalin's YouTube version better than any of the versions on iTunes. 00:55:23 Which is, you know, weird. 00:55:33 many drugs are very usefull 00:55:55 -!- whitenoyce has joined. 00:56:09 -!- whitenoyce has left (?). 00:56:22 No, some drugs are fun 00:57:09 And yws, this toccata and fugue thing is great 00:59:48 ..incredibly so ! 00:59:59 now that i have watched half-way 01:05:34 Some would call it hallucinogenic :-P 01:22:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:22:39 Hello 01:23:01 Is it ok if I make the maximum expressible number in PSOX 1.26238305e+614? 01:23:12 (approx) 01:23:25 exactly 2^(8*255)? 01:32:49 -!- c|p has joined. 01:38:13 hi c|p 01:38:33 hi 01:40:14 -!- c|p has quit ("sssss"). 01:48:18 Sgeo: I haven't been following, but does PSOX have a string type? 01:48:30 NUL-terminated strings, yes 01:48:59 so people can probably implement their own math with strings, if they need true arbitrary-precision arithmetic 01:49:31 thus your (rather large) limit is OK :) 01:50:20 * Sgeo isn't sure how a Brainf*ck program would handle the numbers though.. 01:50:40 I don't even know what PSOX is :) 01:50:45 What's the traditional way for a BF program to handle large numbers? 01:51:01 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 01:51:03 very painfully 01:52:14 Is there a particular format that's used most often? 01:52:41 * oerjan doesn't know he just couldn't resist 01:52:54 i assume it is related to arrays 01:53:40 other than that, i somehow cannot believe there is a standard for it 01:56:09 Would Brainf*ck be able to handle numbers set up similar to Pascal strings, i.e. put a header in front indicating the number of bytes? 01:57:36 i recall something about arrays being implemented with interior empty cells to ease traversing 02:00:51 I could do it like this: data byte, byte indicating whether or not it continues. 02:00:52 Etc. 02:01:14 -!- MotH- has left (?). 02:01:15 So 0x012C would be 0x01 0x01 0x2C 0x00 02:03:39 Or maybe 0x01 0x00 0x2C 0x01 02:07:58 You want a universal code. 02:07:58 * SimonRC goes to bed 02:08:44 A byte-based universal code that's good for arithmetic via incrementing, decrementing and checking for zero. 02:09:08 Wait, checking whether a cell is equal to 128 takes at least 127 steps, doesn't it? 02:09:32 Therefore, NEED COMPILER PLZTHX 02:22:41 Sgeo: The PSOX spec is very, very nice. . . 02:22:47 And actually implementable. :) 02:23:06 ty pikhq 02:23:23 Is my idea for longnums good? 02:23:31 (Discussion inchan justnow) 02:24:00 And it's still a work-in-progress 02:24:17 Personally, I like the idea of either sending enough cells to make up your longnum or a string representation. . . 02:25:16 0x00 0x01 0xmath 0x00 0xadd length-of-longnum bit1 bit2 bit3... 02:25:22 Err. Byte1-3. 02:26:34 The last byte will be stored directly, and then, going left, you'll do bignum += byte^256*(number-of-bytes-so-far) 02:27:55 erm, is that saying put the number of bytes in front? 02:28:00 basically? 02:28:06 * Sgeo doesn't see how that could work with BF 02:28:38 Which is, of course, the problem. :/ 02:29:06 -!- importantshock has joined. 02:29:09 How about putting indicator bytes between each byte of the number? 02:29:14 erm 02:29:24 Like, say, 0x00? 02:29:30 Plausible. 02:29:45 Could be broken, but you'd have to break it intentionally. . . 02:29:47 Should the first byte be indicator or data: 02:29:50 pikhq: did you switch ^ and * or is your representation _very_ weird? :D 02:29:56 "broken"? 02:30:09 oerjan: Actually, I think my brain's merely dead. 02:30:24 BRAAIINS 02:30:29 Sgeo: You could end up screwing up the Brainfuck output, such that indicator bits get skipped. 02:30:58 No huge danger, since, well, that's a problem with any programming language. 02:31:05 Why the hell I mentioned it is beyond me. 02:31:26 0x01(data) 0x01(indicator) 0x2C(data) 0x00(indicator) 02:33:29 indicator-data order might be confusing.. 02:34:15 But it would mean while loops instead of do-while loops.. 02:35:32 note that you will have to be able to deal with the number from either end, assuming your program contains more than a couple 02:36:23 * Sgeo would hope that the program would be able to record location information as it's receiving the number 02:36:47 The longnum format is not necessarily how the client will store the number 02:36:52 It's just transmission 02:38:46 0b1<7 bits of data> indicates there's more data, 0b0<7 bits of data> indicates this is the last one 02:39:11 That's not as convenient to manipulate 02:40:08 But that implies an indicator-data approach: 02:40:26 0x012C becomes 0x01(i) 0x01(d) 0x00(i) 0x2C(d) 02:41:56 Programmers will need to remember to retrieve the last byte, but that's their problem. 02:42:02 :( 02:43:40 Unless we make 0x00(i) mean EOF: 02:44:01 0x012C becomes 0x01(i) 0x01(d) 0x01(i) 0x2C(d) 0x00(i) 02:54:24 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:57:17 importantshock has made an important contribution to PSOX 02:57:33 Although I am realizing that maybe the Pascal thing might have worked.. 02:57:46 Sgeo: wait, is this sarcasm? 02:57:53 importantshock, not at all 02:58:11 importantshock, because of you, I decided that maybe Indicator-Data-Indicator would work well 02:58:42 Programmers will need to remember to retrieve the last byte, but that's their problem. 02:58:42 :( 02:58:42 Unless we make 0x00(i) mean EOF: 02:58:45 Sgeo: Thank you very much 02:58:51 importantshock, you're welcome 03:00:31 Sgeo: I've never heard of PSOX, anywhere I can look for some background? 03:00:49 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 03:00:59 Have you heard of PESOIX? 03:01:42 It's still very much in a state of flux 03:01:59 Vaguely. Sort of a unified, OS-agnostic approach to operating system functions? 03:03:28 PESOIX lets esolangs like BF access OS functions 03:03:57 All rather silly, in my opinion. 03:04:06 Then again, I have no idea how it actually works. 03:04:27 PESOIX was never implemented. 03:04:50 Sgeo: sounds like a fine idea to me, though i am new to esolangs in general. all i've done was write an HQ9+ parser in haskell. 03:05:10 I went to attempt to start to implement it, but due to personal disagreements with semantic and practical issues, I decided to make a (backwards-incompatible) successor 03:05:35 Backwards-compatibility is the root of all evil. Good on you. 03:06:34 I suppose one could make a translator layer that turns PESOIX commands into PSOX commands.. 03:06:39 lol ty 03:08:56 * Sgeo kills the NUL-terminated numbers 03:08:59 *shudder* 03:11:47 main = do {program <- getContents; sequence (map (parse program) program)}; parse pgm 'H' = putStrLn "Hello, world!"; parse pgm 'Q' = putStr pgm; parse pgm '9' = putStrLn "insert 99bob here"; parse pgm '+' = return (); parse pgm _ = error "Syntax error" 03:14:35 -!- importantshock has quit ("Trying a new IRC client."). 03:17:07 -!- importantshock has joined. 03:19:35 Hi importantshock 03:19:44 What took the new client so long? 03:21:27 pikhq: http://www.uer.ca/locations/show.asp?locid=24797 <-- you should go there 03:22:48 Sgeo: he had to download and install Linux to use it. 03:22:57 lol 03:23:02 And he chose the biggest distribution he could find, and he has dial-up. 03:23:25 And he doesn't have access to a CD burner; only a single floppy disk and a friend's house. 03:23:30 Said friend lives in Europe. 03:23:47 And he can't afford any type of transportation, so he had to go there on foot. 03:24:40 And that friend has two computers: one with a floppy drive, one with a CD burner. 03:25:40 He can't afford enough electricity to run both at the same time, so he had to memorize that Linux distribution before turning off the floppy drive computer and turning on the CD burner computer. 03:25:43 He used more and ed. 03:26:04 Either that, or head and cat. I don't remember. 03:28:09 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt updated with the longnum spec! 03:29:22 Actually, I wrote my own IRC client. 03:29:27 IN... 03:29:30 HQ9++! 03:31:55 Oh, did I say HQ9++? I meant *machine code*. 03:32:35 Which I programmed into my computer by flicking a light switch on and off to represent binary 1 and 0. 03:35:24 bsmntbombdood: Why? 03:35:31 pikhq: because i can't? 03:35:37 XD 03:35:43 pikhq, did you see the updated spec? 03:35:45 Move to Colorado Springs. 03:36:36 Sgeo: Why wouldn't that format *not* be suitable for storage in Brainfuck memory? 03:36:56 (assuming, of course, that you only manipulate it using PSOX functions, and try to avoid overlaps) 03:37:41 pikhq, how would BF find the left end? 03:38:09 goto start;bf '[>>]'; 03:38:23 and it wouldn't be manipulated with only PSOX functions.. 03:38:28 pikhq, that's the right end 03:38:32 Oh. 03:38:46 Programmer needs to handle that. 03:38:53 (put a 0x00 before it) 03:39:29 How would the BF program add two longnums? 03:40:04 How would it traverse to a point in the middle of the longnum? 03:40:56 PSOX ADD longnum #1, longnum #2;read longnum from input 03:41:58 * Sgeo was thinking if maybe each indicator would indicate the number of data bytes remaining.. 03:41:58 (admittedly, there could easily be more efficient representations. . .) 03:42:12 Although that would limit the length of longnums.. 03:42:55 And would it really be useful? 03:44:31 Although that would hamper longnum's ability to be used as strings that can contain NUL... 03:47:22 Null-terminated strings, perhaps? 03:48:54 (although I doubt the practicality of, say, "2e10" versus ++>+>>+>>+>>+>>+>>+>>+>>>>) 03:51:29 pikhq, strings that contain NULs can't be NUL terminated.. 03:51:44 I mean like bitstring thingies 03:53:15 Well. . . Right. 03:53:31 I'd suggest sized strings, but those are a pain to deal with from Brainfuck. 03:54:40 pikhq: like in Pascal? 03:55:34 pikhq, longnums do work for the purpose.. 03:59:02 Interspersing amount of data left in the longnum might make it difficult for the client to send longnums 04:01:34 hm, the mere concept of variable-length numbers might cause problems with some languages.. 04:02:03 (receiving, anyway) 04:02:41 Pretty strong reason to avoid longnums unless necessary 04:03:19 e.g. in an ask the user for a number function, the client could say how many bytes the number can be, or 0 for a longnum 04:11:16 OTOH, I have no similar warnings about NUL-terminated strings.. 04:12:39 Maybe I should.. 04:26:49 * Sgeo will add warnings... tomorrow 04:27:25 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:30:47 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:57:49 -!- Figs has joined. 04:58:12 * Figs says something stupid... just because. 05:33:25 >>> ->+>+++>>+>++>+>+++>>+>++>>>+>+>+>++>+>>>>+++>+>>++>+>+++>>++>++>>+>>+>++>++>+>>>>+++>+>>>>++>++>>>>+>>++>+>+++>>>++>>++++++>>+>>++>+>>>>+++>>+++++>>+>+++>>>++>>++>>+>>++>+>+++>>>++>>+++++++++++++>>+>>++>+>+++>+>+++>>>++>>++++>>+>>++>+>>>>+++>>+++++>>>>++>>>>+>+>++>>+++>+>>>>+++>+>>>>+++>+>>>>+++>>++>++>+>+++>+>++>++>>>>>>++>+>+++>>>>>+++>>>++>+>+++>+>+>++>>>>>>++>>>+>>>++>+>>>>+++>+>>>+>>++>+>++++++++++++++++++>>>>+>+>>>+>>++>+>+++>>>++>> 05:33:38 was that too long? 05:49:01 what's a reasonable size for a brainfuck buffer? 05:49:22 4k? 05:53:31 +[>>+] 05:53:37 * pikhq grins evilly 05:54:06 The joys of a representation of infinity in PSOX's longnum format. 05:58:27 -!- calamari has joined. 06:01:12 pikhq: http://www.actionsquad.org/stahl.htm <-- you should go there, too 06:01:36 unless waist deep in sewage isn't your idea of fun? 06:10:03 Not really, no. 06:10:21 too bad 06:31:58 -!- importantshock has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:49:34 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:00:37 -!- importantshock has joined. 07:05:02 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 07:21:58 -!- importantshock has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:26:29 -!- importantshock has joined. 07:37:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:47:04 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:30:18 -!- importantshock has joined. 08:40:42 haha 08:40:54 my brainfuck interpretter just went up in flames. 08:41:03 damn ye '['! 08:49:16 O_O 08:49:24 I just used a char*** for the first time in my code :P 08:51:09 Figs: in an mp4 metadata-parser i had to modify, i almost used a char**** 08:51:17 :P 08:52:10 ...then i said "No, just...no. Sure, the following code may not be as abstracted as it could be, but i'm not using four fucking stars." 08:52:20 :) 08:52:28 it's a charfuck! 08:52:40 that's what well call char**** 08:52:46 confuse people... 08:52:58 they'll think we're cursing when they see char**** in our code 08:53:01 char**** charfuck; 08:53:03 ^_^ 08:53:24 basically, I have a 08:53:31 char* [10000][2] 08:53:42 and I have a char*** to access the data 08:54:05 I wonder how the hell I learned to use that. 08:54:12 I've never seen anyone use char***s before... :S 08:54:14 huh 08:54:19 now I'm talking to myself, aren't I? 08:54:34 WALL OF TEXT REPLY! 08:54:42 ooh 08:54:44 i have an idea 08:54:47 do 08:54:55 #define fuck **** 08:55:01 haha 08:55:18 I think I will do that later 08:55:24 since I plan to obfuscate this program 08:55:34 and that'd just be classic :) 08:55:42 typedef char brain; 08:55:50 #define fuck **** 08:55:57 brain fuck ptr; 08:56:38 or maybe just brain**** pointer; 08:56:48 so that my code doesn't curse :) 08:57:06 and see if people get the jokes :P 08:58:24 oh 08:58:25 haha 08:58:29 I don't really need a char*** 08:58:32 I just a char** 08:58:34 :P 08:59:14 ah, gotta love C 08:59:20 no string support to speak of 09:00:50 :P 09:01:07 hehe >,< 09:01:13 in case you haven't figured out yet 09:01:22 I'm writing an obfuscated BF interpreter :) 09:01:32 modified a bit... 09:01:39 ` is now the quit operator 09:01:48 so I can do things like [`] to quit 09:01:53 if a value is zero :D 09:01:55 i wrote my first interpreter the other day! 09:01:59 for.... 09:02:04 HQ9+ 09:02:24 not a big deal, i know. 09:02:27 but i did it in haskell. 09:03:36 :) 09:03:44 I don't know what HQ9+ is 09:06:50 four instructions: 09:06:55 'h' prints Hello World 09:06:58 'q' prints Q 09:07:07 '9' prints 99 bottles of beer on the wall 09:07:16 and '+' increments an accumulator 09:07:22 :) 09:07:26 lol 09:07:57 huh 09:08:09 I am doing something stupid with me []s I think 09:08:14 my* 09:09:14 this is plain C? 09:09:32 yeah 09:09:37 I'm writing it in C 09:09:50 (writing the code for [ and ] in bf) 09:11:00 ooooh 09:11:15 now I remember why I wanted that second thing... 09:11:35 well, shit. 09:11:36 :P 09:11:51 :( 09:11:58 brain**** even! 09:12:02 :D 09:13:55 ooh 09:14:01 #define ass *** 09:14:05 nice 09:14:18 now, if only there were a two-letter swear word... 09:14:25 FU 09:14:27 :) 09:14:42 F(uck) (y)U(o) 09:14:57 sad thing is that I could actually make that mean something in C++ 09:15:12 that would be easy, yeah 09:15:19 :P 09:15:42 y swearword[]; 09:15:51 ? 09:16:09 "* SimonRC thinks that "references" is a fun word to type" <<< of you like that, you should try "oklopol" 09:16:14 wait, nevermind. 09:16:38 references references. 09:16:41 reeferences! 09:17:02 o.o 09:17:22 no references in C 09:21:09 grr segfault 09:24:28 i'd like to write a bf interpreter in haskell...but the amount of monads involved scares me. 09:24:56 lol 09:25:13 hrm 09:25:28 char [][] -> char*** is giving me trouble 09:25:37 maybe I'm totally wrong on that one :D 09:26:15 well, fuck it 09:26:19 I'll just double the size :P 09:26:24 handle it me-self. 09:26:45 640 K of RAM should be enough for anyone. 09:26:52 :) 09:27:02 " "Balalaikka" in Finnish" <<< haha, all the loonies are finnish 09:28:36 that old wives tale? 09:28:42 finland doesn't exist. 09:28:45 everyone knows that 09:29:10 " Is there a particular format that's used most often?" <<< use brainfuck as you'd use bitchanger 09:29:23 ...also, don't give advise to people that aren't there 09:30:40 lawlz. 09:31:23 oh, i now realize what he ws using that for 09:36:11 how 09:36:14 it just blew up :D 09:36:19 -!- importantshock has quit. 09:36:22 *wow 09:40:06 i was night watchman at this place the last two nights 09:40:22 first night i went there 2 hours early... because i'm an idiot or smth 09:40:34 made the scheme interpreter \o/ 09:40:44 but didn't learn the song yet :< 09:40:59 my friends hallway didn't have a piano.ö 09:41:02 *-ö 09:41:11 friend's 09:43:00 it's a stub of an interpreter though. 09:43:13 i haven't even made it tail recurse yet :D 09:43:43 well... i guess it tail recurses, even C can do that, but it doesn't optimize it 09:44:29 :P 09:44:52 why is this thing crashing O_o 09:46:52 -!- ololobot has joined. 09:51:00 >>> sch (define factorial (lambda (a) (if (= a 0) 1 (if (= a 1) 1 (* a (factorial (- a 1)))))))(factorial 6) 09:51:00 num:720 09:52:45 >>> sch (define (factorial a) (cond ((= a 0) 1) ((= a 1) 1) (1 (* a (factorial (- a 1)))))) (factorial 6) 09:52:45 num:720 09:53:05 smth like that 09:54:03 it has static scoping and basic operations + basic special forms, but it's pretty stubbist 09:54:06 *stubbish 10:17:31 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:20:17 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:29:26 http://rafb.net/p/MeAsRu82.html 10:29:34 do you guys see anything wrong with this? :S 10:35:28 there's something wrong in either '[' or ']' since it keeps segfaulting 10:42:12 O_O 10:42:22 can you imagine paying $2000 for a piece of software? 10:49:43 O.o 11:35:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:03:11 Figs: it looks to me that ] jumps unconditionally to just _after_ the matching [, because of the i++ in the for loop 12:05:16 oerjan: Unfortunately, I've modifed it so much since then that's not relevant any more, but thanks for looking... 12:05:21 you can help me debug the new version ^_^ 12:05:42 http://rafb.net/p/dh4L2C10.html 12:07:04 might add a check for \0 in find_bracket 12:08:20 I'm pretty sure the problem isn't with find_bracket 12:08:27 at least the one I'm dealing with now 12:08:33 but yeah, I know there is a bug there 12:08:37 that was just for added error checking 12:08:41 or a possible problem 12:08:46 mhm 12:08:59 I'll add something to it later if I get further along and there's more errors 12:09:08 for the real version though, I don't know if it'd matter 12:09:39 anywho 12:09:59 the most recent issue is that somewhere my data in the stack got corrupted 12:10:06 or I'm setting it to the wrong place 12:10:08 or something 12:10:22 eek, linked list. why do you need it doubly-linked, just for a stack? 12:10:49 just the stack 12:11:04 seemed like the easiest way to put it together without too much work 12:11:50 I'd rather use C++, but the Obfus. C people don't accept obfuscated C++ :P 12:12:05 if they did, I'd have been done hours ago 12:12:42 oh, it's obfuscated, i guess doubly-linked is fine then ;) 12:12:44 the brainfuck program I am using to test it is +++[-] 12:12:48 it will be :P 12:12:58 right now, obviously, it's not :) 12:13:54 do any of your asserts fire? 12:14:21 no 12:14:23 it seg faults 12:14:37 as far as I can tell somewhere in pop 12:15:13 add an assert(current) in pop? 12:16:35 0x22b153, 0x77c5fc80 12:16:42 ok... 12:16:47 so here's the problem 12:16:52 current = current->back; 12:16:58 now the data is wrong. 12:17:17 call changed from 0x22b153 to that other one 12:17:27 and now it's garbage 12:17:52 segfaults when you try to free it 12:19:40 _did_ you add an assert(current) in pop? 12:20:03 where? 12:20:09 the first assert works 12:20:09 first, of course 12:20:34 i suppose that would have segfaulted if not 12:20:36 yeah 12:22:04 the reason it segfaults is free(current->next) fails 12:23:03 i am wondering about current->next->back = ¤t 12:23:27 does ¤t even exist beyond the call to push? 12:23:31 that's probably wrong. 12:23:44 * Figs removes & 12:24:08 ok 12:24:25 now I have a failed assertation 12:24:35 current->back!=0 on line 58 12:25:50 I put a current!=0 before that 12:25:55 didn't fail on that 12:26:35 http://rafb.net/p/x7bDuD78.html 12:26:39 not much different 12:26:44 but so we're still looking at the same thing 12:27:45 note to self: callstack = 0x3d2470 12:28:39 ah... that i++ after find_bracket on line 106 may be wrong 12:28:54 same problem as i initially mentioned :D 12:29:16 but in the other direction 12:29:17 :P 12:30:11 i suppose [ and ] somehow popping too much stack would cause your other problem 12:30:44 hold on, still stepping through 12:30:53 so far it's gotten through the first pop properly 12:31:30 nope 12:31:34 I found the problem 12:31:36 it's not i++ 12:31:52 (although that might still be wrong) 12:32:18 the problem I guess is that it's not poping back where it should O.o 12:32:31 I need -1 from i 12:33:25 w00tage!!! 12:33:25 it works 12:33:40 no failures 12:33:50 just nice sweet working-ness ^_^ 12:34:00 great. now i go for lunch :) 12:34:21 :P 12:34:26 thanks for looking oerjan ;) 12:34:40 I should go to bed now 12:34:41 :P 12:34:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("You're welcome"). 12:34:44 it's 4:30 am 12:34:49 lol 12:43:58 !bf 12:44:03 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 12:44:06 2 12:44:20 !help bf 12:44:24 To use an interpreter: Note: can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem. 12:45:04 right... how do I give egobot an input sequence? 12:48:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:56:36 aha, oerjan was right 12:56:39 too 12:56:50 hi Tritonio 12:57:58 *now* it works properly. 13:03:43 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:04:18 http://rafb.net/p/cKTRLJ66.html 13:04:21 I think I got it right 13:04:42 I'm sure you guys are all going to laugh at my for being so bad at writing a bf interpreter in C... :P 13:05:10 time now for me to obfuscate it... 13:45:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:12:31 hi! 14:13:41 lo! 14:16:39 Hi Tritonio and Figs 14:18:08 hi 14:36:03 *sigh* 14:36:12 http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Z661JiPJ_08J:sysspider.vectorstar.net/papers/obftricks.txt 14:36:19 that'll cheer you up SimonRC 14:36:32 or destroy your faith in humanity further 14:36:35 one or the otehr. 14:36:45 * Figs asks SimonRC what's troubling him... 14:36:53 magic 14:37:00 or rather, people who believe in it 14:37:41 :P 14:37:51 They are failing to see the difference between things that are simple to nature but very strange to humans, and things that are simple to humans but highly complex and arbitrary to nature. 14:37:55 * Figs sings... "Do you believe in magic...?" 14:38:18 They fail to see how ridiculously human-centric their point of view is. 14:38:27 welcome to life :P 14:39:11 there is an upside though... 14:39:40 I am writing the explanation while role-playing a species not at all related to humans... 14:39:51 :P 14:40:00 Therefore I can be very rude and tell them they have the brains of monkies at it is "role-playing" 14:40:05 I'm writing an obfuscated brainfuck interpreter for the Obfus C Contest 14:40:07 :-) 14:40:19 Figs: make it a super-optimising one 14:40:32 right now it's bulkier than hell at 17k 14:40:37 at the very least it should spot null-movement loops 14:40:46 Figs: tut tut tut 14:41:15 actually, the code is much bigger than the source 14:41:16 Figs: in return I give you this gift: http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmain.html 14:41:23 source is like 3 k 14:41:24 max 14:41:30 compress it in a silly way then 14:41:45 ;p 14:41:48 unmain is great; take an hour out to read it 14:41:56 it will help a bit too 14:42:06 I'll read it sometime when I'm not 6 hours past my bed time :) 14:43:43 Maybe try to make the code as readable as possible. High-level incomprehensibility will win you more points than low-level incomprehensibility. 14:44:11 I was thinking of doing a lot of gotos and function pointers 14:44:11 Figs: you must be in oceania 14:44:14 nope 14:44:19 I'm in California 14:44:30 it's 7 am here 14:44:35 (give or take) 14:44:55 switches in switches... conditional gotos 14:45:09 switches with gotos 14:45:11 "#define foo(a, b) ((a - b++) * (a * b))" <-- gaah! undefined! 14:45:19 :P 14:45:29 and of course, naming everything with underscores 14:45:30 Thou Shalt Not Invoke Undefined Behaviour. 14:45:39 _, __, ___, ____, ______ 14:45:39 Uness It Is Really Cool. 14:45:41 :P 14:46:08 {/*]{8*/{}}{}{{{}}} 14:46:16 (like building a big stack by recursing a lot then scribbling all over it for storage. (like that program that had no variables, one year) 14:46:34 lol 14:46:36 I should do that 14:46:37 * SimonRC tries to find the funny Java he made once 14:46:44 that would be awesome.... 14:46:54 already been done 14:46:56 actually I already have a stack as a linked list in my program 14:47:01 unless you add a new twist... 14:47:21 I'll probably stick with a wall of redirection though 14:47:37 the program worked almost everywhere, it could detect which way the stack built. 14:47:43 I was thinking of doing 14:47:49 #define fuck **** 14:47:57 typedef char brain; 14:48:04 brain fuck pointer; 14:48:09 at some point for fun 14:48:28 reverse censoring! 14:48:51 passing the code through gcc -E would censor it... :P 14:49:27 but I don't know. 14:49:29 I might not do that for this 14:53:46 (We were set the task of writing a christmas-related program. I wrote this: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/tmp/xmastree.zip ) 14:53:49 :-) 14:54:08 http://rafb.net/p/NMOgLP83.html 14:54:11 Figs: actually that would be funny 14:54:12 this seems to compile 14:54:29 "Most/Least polite program" 14:54:33 :P 14:54:42 especially if I could do some punning 14:54:47 though an intercal-corrector would be better for that title 14:54:53 so that it totally changes the meaning after converting it 14:55:07 intercal-corrector? 14:55:29 you know that an INTERCAL requires the correct level of politeness to compile, right? 14:55:45 *INTERCAL program 14:56:10 ohh :P 14:56:11 yeah 14:56:18 have to say 'please' all the time and such 14:56:44 I didn't realize I could nest structs in main 15:01:40 OHH :D 15:01:52 I need some rude text 15:04:20 * SimonRC has an idea 15:04:21 could you please curse at me? 15:04:27 what is this program supposed to do? 15:04:29 I need a half paragraph of rude text 15:04:44 Brain Fuck interpreter 15:04:48 inspiration fails me. 15:04:51 :'( 15:05:04 try Wikipedia 15:05:13 why do I only get cursed at when I don't want to be cursed at? 15:05:23 I've asked in 3 places :'( 15:05:47 seriously, try Wikipedia 15:06:01 Where does it get the brainfuck from? 15:06:30 input 15:06:33 from the user 15:07:22 ok... 15:07:24 I have an idea,,, 15:07:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Profanity 15:07:45 You could write the program in Brainfuck initially, then port it to C, to get extra-weird C 15:07:50 ;p 15:07:59 a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck fucks my brain 15:07:59 or course, it will be more comprehensible to anyone familiar with idiomatic BF 15:08:11 there are several around 15:08:20 find one tat is well-commented, then port it badly 15:08:20 I already wrote the interpreter in C 15:08:21 :P 15:08:32 I need a paragraph of cursing 15:10:31 did you look at my java program? 15:10:59 java is dirty 15:11:03 yeah 15:11:11 I don't know java though :P 15:11:15 I won't tough java, even for money. 15:11:46 it has some good techniquies, like a method with the same name as main's argument, everything being named after ___, and the ternary operator 15:12:22 and of course, it performs recursion on the structure of a string, which really fucks up the C programmers' brains 15:12:30 :P 15:13:34 ooh, that's a good technique: you can emulate immutable lists quickly using array slices, then represent an array slice as a struct that has three ints in it. 15:13:49 and you know what else has three ints? That's right, a color! 15:13:56 :P 15:14:00 so you end up representing lists as colors 15:14:08 I just thought that up, BTW 15:14:22 be sure to re-suse unralted stuff as much as possible 15:15:00 be sure to split the struct into seperate arguments for no good reason too occasioanlly 15:15:33 and with small representation of immutable lists is great for your FP techniques (confusing for c programmers) 15:15:45 sneak in Haskell-style classes if you can 15:17:44 FP? functional programming? 15:19:58 yes 15:20:09 of course, a function curried over two 1-word arguments is really just a function pointer and two ints 15:20:18 that will fit nicely into a color too! 15:20:26 so now a color is a function 15:20:35 except when it isn't 15:21:50 SimonRC: lists as clours... hmm... but will the max value be 255? 15:22:55 no these are 3-word colours for "flexibility" 15:23:16 mybe you could abuse struct_tm or something else instead 15:23:26 be sure to cast a lot 15:24:40 hmm 15:24:42 3-word colours 15:25:00 "now you don't have to be a human to use your whole eye range!" 15:25:16 heh 15:26:17 "note: lists-as-colours may only be efficiently used by little green men with exceptional eyesight." 15:26:44 the most confusing FP technique is passing a function to another function, which passitslef to it 15:27:11 e.g. f g x = g (foo x) f (bar x) 15:32:27 SimonRC: what do foo and bar represent in that line? 15:33:28 just some functions or other 15:50:18 hello. 15:50:29 I have decided. 15:50:41 since it's almost 8 am, I will not sleep. 15:50:53 * Figs shall break his awake-ness record! 15:51:28 * Figs is at 16 hours of awakeness right now. 16:04:09 SimonRC: f foo bar g x = g (foo x) f (bar x) -- confusing function generator, takes two arguments 16:04:24 "f foo bar -- returns a confusing function" 16:06:47 http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/quine.b.txt 16:27:08 -!- Keymaker has joined. 16:27:21 http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/programs/smurf/99.smu 16:27:27 99 bottles of beer in Smurf 16:27:28 Figs: its outputting itself? 16:27:44 yeah 16:27:59 brainfuck quine :P 16:28:03 I thought it was pretty neat 16:29:51 ok 16:30:02 one can run the program by using safalra's smurf interpreter, for example, which can be found here: http://www.safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/smurf/interpreter/ 16:30:40 wait... ooo, quines _are_ non trivial 16:30:48 :P 16:33:52 -!- calamari has joined. 16:34:05 Hi calamari 16:34:11 hi Sgeo 16:35:36 howdy squid-ly one . 16:35:40 how goes thee? 16:35:59 * Sgeo feels moderate guilt 16:36:52 why? 16:37:54 PSOX won't be EsoAPI compatible.. 16:38:27 and isn't calamari the EsoAPI person? 16:39:00 -!- Keymaker has quit. 16:39:06 Figs: goes ok :) 16:39:13 ahhhhhhhhhh 16:39:16 Sgeo: yeah I am.. what's up? 16:39:24 noooo recursion 16:39:37 * navaburo tries to write a quine 16:39:43 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 16:42:19 I wrote a quine in C++ before :P 16:42:28 (ie, not using printf) 16:43:03 the trick I think was to do printf myself C++ constructs :P 16:46:03 ? 16:46:14 like with individual chars? 16:46:24 lemme see if I still have it 16:48:04 nah 16:48:07 I dunno where it is 16:48:09 maybe my logs 16:51:34 nope. 16:51:37 damn ;P 16:54:09 allright, well i allready broke down and cheeted 16:54:17 * navaburo looksed at http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/self_c.txt 16:54:45 do it without printf :D 16:54:47 the trick commonly employed there is to use printf formatting 16:54:51 * SimonRC goes 16:54:58 bye SimonRC 16:55:04 * Figs comes. 16:55:05 ... 16:55:06 wait 16:55:07 :P 16:55:16 that sounded bad 16:55:22 (you could just use the Ken Thompson technique) 16:55:24 * SimonRC goes 16:55:26 the format chars are used once as format chars and once as just plain output 16:55:39 ;) 16:55:53 clever 16:56:00 ohh, how about a preprocessor quine? :P 16:56:30 elaborate... 16:56:47 I like the last one 16:56:56 "" <-- shortest possible quine 16:57:03 (ie, 0 bytes) 16:57:16 "Worst Abuse of the Rules" award in 1994 IOCCC 16:57:49 meh gcc doesnt like it ;) 16:58:05 well... actually ld freaks out 16:58:24 you have to be creative with a makefile to make it work :) 16:58:31 but you can do it 16:58:38 i dont like that 16:58:45 you shouldnt be allowed to use a make file! 16:59:04 that's why it's the "worst abuse of the rules EVAR" 16:59:07 :P 16:59:09 if you REALY want one, put it at the top of the .c file 16:59:20 since they require you to provide build instructions or a portable make file 16:59:27 ooook 16:59:39 ooh 16:59:43 i figgured it was something like, it HAS to compile with gcc foo.c 16:59:43 thunder in San Diego 16:59:47 I bet it'll rain 16:59:52 first time in 100+ days supposedly 17:00:00 nah :P 17:00:05 read the rules :P 17:00:17 it is curious that it is difficult to write quines 17:00:34 http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2006/rules.txt 17:00:45 prove something mathematical about quines :P 17:01:00 i wonder if there are turing-complete languages with resonable output capability that cannot implement a quine 17:01:35 depends if you can look at your own source code or not 17:02:35 right.... actually , it may be trivial to write a quine in C 17:03:10 what about compiling with -g and parsing the running binary for the debug info containing the source code? 17:04:07 9.9 17:07:23 http://www0.us.ioccc.org/1987/westley.c 17:09:04 http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2004/gavin.c << Mini-OS 17:11:05 quote: 17:11:06 This is a 32-bit multitasking operating system for x86 computers, 17:11:06 with GUI and filesystem, support for loading and executing user 17:11:06 applications in elf binary format, with ps2 mouse and keyboard drivers, 17:11:06 and vesa graphics. And a command shell. And an application - 17:11:06 a simple text-file viewer. 17:11:46 wtf 17:13:18 that's an IOCCC winner :) 17:13:20 for 2004 17:13:35 it doesnt compile 17:13:54 :P 17:14:14 you need the rest of it 17:14:18 http://www0.us.ioccc.org/years-spoiler.html 17:14:24 scroll down to gavin - Mini-OS 17:15:04 and you have to do it on Linux :P 17:17:26 ight, well time for the gym 17:18:00 but i am going to think (mathematically) about these 'quines' later... 17:20:41 Sgeo: I wrote EsoAPI such that I could fit its implemention into a 512-byte boot sector. I don't mind if you come up with something different.. hehe 17:22:00 o.o 17:22:28 http://rafb.net/p/mbphjc24.html 17:25:10 -!- mouflon has left (?). 17:35:01 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 17:37:59 grrrrrr gym closed 17:38:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:48:38 http://rafb.net/p/iv2lMb85.html 17:57:20 http://rafb.net/p/MJYs2L76.html 17:57:23 * Figs is getting weirder 18:14:54 did you know you can impliment exceptions in C with setjmp and the preprocessor? 18:15:00 http://www.di.unipi.it/~nids/docs/longjump_try_trow_catch.shtml 18:15:10 TRY/CATCH/FINALLY 18:19:39 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:21:07 I finally gave my project........................... 18:21:18 what a relief... 18:24:31 http://rafb.net/p/I39o8e51.html 18:24:38 Tritonio: prepare to be terrified 18:24:48 it isn't so evil yet 18:24:51 but it will be soon 18:25:55 wtf is this? 18:26:13 it's my setjmp hello world program 18:26:19 in valid C 18:26:37 18:26:44 what's that header? 18:27:09 it's the header for jmp_buf, setjmp, and longjmp 18:27:24 which are? 18:27:33 fancy gotos 18:27:56 ok i think i got it.... 18:28:11 jmp_buf stores the state of the program at a particular point so you can jump back to it and continue 18:28:25 (the stacks and things) 18:28:35 so you can impliment complex exception handling and such directly in C 18:28:37 (foo) what is that? 18:28:48 foo is the jmp_buf 18:29:10 setjmp returns 0 when called 18:29:14 you first create snapshot of the stacks etc.... 18:29:19 basically 18:29:32 then when you call longjmp with the jmp_buf and an int 18:29:37 it returns the int when you go back 18:29:49 so here, I use the ternary operator do basicall do false first 18:29:53 then true later 18:30:00 _ and __ are functions 18:30:07 very nice... 18:30:29 (x? __ : _)(f); executes __(f) if x is true, or _(f) if it is not 18:31:03 I'm an evil son-of-a-bitch :D 18:31:03 yeap i know... wait a moment. 18:31:13 does the true part ever execute? 18:32:05 no wait 18:32:16 yes 18:32:17 what is the second parameter of longjmp? 18:32:24 the value to return when you go back 18:32:30 ok i got everything 18:32:31 lol 18:32:33 so when it goes back, it returns 1 18:32:34 it's funny 18:32:49 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 18:33:08 so you first call setjump that returns 0 and stores the current state at the same time 18:33:18 because it returned zero you execute _ 18:33:18 basically 18:33:36 and then _ jumps back to the point where you saved the state of the program 18:33:42 but know it returns 1 18:33:46 so __ is executed 18:33:51 and exit is called 18:33:53 nice one 18:33:54 yes 18:34:02 wait until I add variable flow based on time... 18:34:36 you really don't have too... ;-) 18:34:38 as long as it eventually does the same thing, I can have it go about doing things in multiple different ways 18:34:47 oh, but I do! 18:34:56 I want to get the worst abuses of flow award 18:35:13 sadly, I doubt I'll be able to beat the true masters of the art 18:35:20 but you never know ;) 18:35:23 hehe 18:35:54 non-local jump, function pointers, etc are not exactly typical 18:51:14 -!- jix_ has joined. 19:11:52 -!- ihope_ has joined. 19:14:14 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:20:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:24:30 http://rafb.net/p/WMKiDv18.html 19:32:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:33:01 hi oerjan 19:33:05 you were partially write 19:33:07 *right 19:33:10 there was a bug there 19:33:18 any way, http://rafb.net/p/WMKiDv18.html 19:33:46 I am now working on finding evil things to make my flow crazy 19:35:35 eek 19:35:55 and it will only get better (read: worse) as I find ways to make it more complex 19:40:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:49:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:56:34 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 20:00:29 http://rafb.net/p/LvIgFU52.html 20:04:50 * Figs prods oerjan 20:06:11 you gotta do better than that, it was almost as easy as plain code to understand 20:06:44 yes, but can you see how it will get more complex when you scale it up? :P 20:07:24 especially when I start mixing it with gotos and longjmps... 20:07:49 i suppose 20:11:46 -!- calamari has joined. 20:14:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:17:10 -!- sebbu has left (?). 20:28:34 Figs: what's the point of that? 20:37:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:38:59 You can't write obfuscated code in bits. 20:39:09 You must write it all at once, otherwise it is too modular. 20:40:15 int main() { 0x12, 0x34, 0x42, ...} 20:40:34 navaburo: Ken Thompson wrote an easily-memorised quine. 20:40:38 errr 20:40:45 int main[] {...} 20:41:55 ;p 20:42:13 I'm practicing my techniques 20:42:17 and thinking up new ideas 20:42:33 it's a good way to force myself to read more of the documentation 20:43:01 I'm starting to like C 20:43:13 just for the fact that it has less weird cases than C++ 20:43:21 not much more readable though 20:43:25 :P 20:44:01 You want a weird case? 20:44:12 as many as you know. 20:44:22 A char is neither a signed or an unsigned case. ;) 20:44:26 s/case/char/ 20:44:35 ok 20:44:41 makes no difference to me 20:44:49 I always thought signed chars were kind of silly. 20:45:08 :P 20:45:26 I mean the fact that C lacks constructors and destructors makes it simpler to reason about 20:45:52 the fact that C lacks methods is at once annoying but simplifying 20:46:28 each part is easier to reason about in general since there are less weird exceptions to the rules (or so it seems) 20:47:56 I think I'll really like haskell for that in some ways when I get to it 20:49:43 yes 20:49:45 Haskell rocks 20:50:08 pikhq: um 20:50:38 Actually, chars are either signed of unsigned by default. Implementations may choose. 20:50:41 *or 20:59:20 -!- Sukoshi has joined. 20:59:25 pikhq: Ya here? 20:59:30 Jes. 20:59:35 You use Gentoo, right? 20:59:42 hi Sukoshi 20:59:49 Hiyo Figs. 20:59:52 * pikhq nods 21:00:03 How do you have the time to set up Gentoo?! 21:00:11 *Nothing* comes in the install by default! 21:00:39 sudo emerge -av zsh elinks screen irssi bitlbee 21:00:49 Start up screen, get irssi, bitlbee, and elinks setup. 21:00:53 No X? :P 21:00:56 sudo emerge -av ratpoison firefox 21:01:12 Get a simple window manager set up and firefox. Install Conkeror for my sanity. 21:01:19 Finally, sudo emerge -av kde-meta 21:01:28 Voila. I've got 90% of what I need. 21:01:38 I'm doing an emerge update --deep world now, because I changed some use flags that were built shoddily into some packages I made. 21:01:53 Try "emerge -avuDN world". 21:01:55 Does that grab everything that your user flags want? 21:02:10 Well, hrm. I've been doing that since 2 hours ago. 21:02:22 -avuDN will also rebuild packages with changed use flags. 21:02:34 Is N --newuse? 21:02:40 Yeah. 21:02:40 Because I added that in too. 21:02:41 bbl 21:02:42 -!- Figs has left (?). 21:02:43 Alright. 21:02:52 So it'll grab everything my USE flags told it to? 21:02:58 Right. 21:03:00 Joy. 21:03:15 Then everything shall be set up after this, and I can sit down to configging fun. 21:03:36 Still, some of the use flags are annoying. My first build of imagemagick did not have jpg support. 21:03:47 Because I didn't explicitly put jpeg in USE :P 21:03:53 Try using the desktop profile. 21:04:03 Hm. Doesen't it come by default? 21:04:06 (which I ought to switch to, instead of my really, really long USE list) 21:04:15 Yeah, I have a really really long USE list. 21:04:17 No, the default profile is very bare-bones. 21:04:27 Ack. Syn. No wonder. 21:04:42 Ah! See, the install handbook should say that instead of ``look at the other profiles''. 21:05:48 The trouble is, after this long compile/wget marathon, now I have to see if everything else works. 21:06:18 And set up my Japanese and dev environments. 21:06:52 I usually set aside a weekend to get comfortable with a Gentoo install. 21:07:21 I *had* set up a day, but it turned out that this day turned out very busy, and this weekend my busiest weekend of the summer :P 21:07:33 It's still summer for you? 21:07:35 Lucky. 21:07:54 Well, unlike y'all midwestern bumpkins, we don't end for summer when it isn't even hot. 21:08:07 (Joke.) 21:08:43 "Midwestern"? 21:08:47 What's your locale, again? 21:08:53 Or non Californian then. Happy? 21:09:03 Oh. 21:09:18 Well, I know a lot of the people in the Midwest and some from the East end school around end of May? 21:09:40 Yeah; I've got summer from the end of May to mid-August. 21:09:43 Which I've never understood, because summer's heat doesen't even come until mid-June, when the 95 F temperatures start becoming normal. 21:09:56 95F temperatures?!? 21:10:03 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 21:10:05 This is California, not frigids-ville :P 21:10:18 It's funny seeing you people on the news literally dying in heat waves of 92 F. 21:10:20 Oh, so it's unbearable-temperature-ville. 21:10:21 it's been regularly 105f here :( 21:10:37 Because it's fairly common to reach into the mid-90s in summer here. 21:10:48 95 is an unusual temperature. . . 21:11:03 We're usually in about the 80s during summer. . . 21:11:15 (something in the 60s at night) 21:11:26 Wow. That's only a few degrees above room temperature. 21:12:00 bsmntbombdood: Live around Arizona/New Mexico/thereparts? 21:12:19 We also have negative humidity. :) 21:12:35 California generally does, except for this freakish summer. 21:12:46 But our heat is all dry. 21:13:06 Well, in that case, mid-90s wouldn't be all that bad. 21:13:20 Ah, yes. We don't get the New York style humid-heat. 21:13:31 That there's a killer from 85 up. 21:13:45 Sukoshi: colorado 21:13:59 bsmntbombdood: Hmph. It gets that hot in California? 21:14:05 *Colorado even 21:14:12 I always thought it was cooler because it was higher up. 21:14:40 bsmntbombdood: Where in Colorado are you? 21:14:47 pikhq: longmont 21:15:04 Ah. Yeah, you're roasting. 21:16:40 I shall now leave to study as soon as I determine what emerge is compiling. 21:17:13 * pikhq enjoys the weather out by Colorado Springs. ;) 21:17:50 80f in the summer, wow 21:18:10 Well, lower nineties this week. . . 21:18:52 bsmntbombdood: clearly on a good day. at least by Trondheim standards. 21:19:11 what? 21:20:05 in Trondheim, 80 would be a good summer day. 60 would be slightly below average. 21:20:32 Eastern Europeans don't count, because you guys don't even know the meaning of the word ``sunlight'' :P 21:20:34 or thereabouts. 21:20:43 "Eastern"? 21:20:50 Ok, Europeans in general. 21:21:17 that 80 day would be sunny, of course, and the 60 probably rainy. 21:21:19 oerjan: what about in winter? 21:21:36 in winter it usually hovers unpredictably around 32. 21:22:12 Both warmer and colder than Colorado. XD 21:22:17 i don't know why people think colorado is cold 21:22:34 bsmntbombdood: It's the snowstorms that do it. 21:22:42 there's not even much snow 21:22:51 Not pay attention in December? 21:22:54 it's 100 in the summer and rarely below 32 in the winter 21:24:52 and not much more than a foot of snow each winter 21:27:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_20-21%2C_2006_Colorado_Blizzard 21:27:35 *cough* 21:27:57 suck on that EB! 21:28:14 that's faaaar from typical 21:28:17 and very awesome 21:28:26 Well, yes. 21:30:41 utah stole all our snow that one year 21:33:32 One last thing. 21:33:39 Is it bad to add -perl to the USE flags list? 21:34:23 (Says me after 3 hours of emerging.) 21:35:09 I mean, I don't care about neither Perl, nor Ruby, so I didn't think -perl or -ruby would be bad. 21:35:23 But I added in python, so. 21:36:52 -perl would only disable that as an optional dependency, so it wouldn't be a bad thing. 21:37:15 (although you'll still *have* Perl, since Portage uses Perl extensively) 21:37:54 I thought so. 21:38:16 I have concluded that libc is being built now. 21:38:25 Hooray. This is what I switched from Slackware for. 22:48:28 -!- jix_ has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:55:43 -!- ehird` has quit. 23:36:13 -!- mtve has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:37:21 oooh, pretty: http://www.teamhassenplug.org/GBC/ 23:44:33 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 2007-08-27: 00:03:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:05:14 -!- jcc has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:33:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:30:38 Anyone here? 02:30:42 pikhq? SimonRC? 02:30:52 bsmntbombdood? 02:30:57 what? 02:31:01 Hello 02:31:21 * Sgeo is thinking up how to handle unsafe functions in PSOX 02:31:33 But it's a bit involved 02:31:38 * Sgeo goes to write up specs 02:33:09 Jes? 02:33:21 ^^ 02:37:35 * Sgeo silently changes a command around in the PSOX spec 02:44:47 -!- navaburo has quit (Success). 02:47:57 Congrats to anyone who figures it out! 02:52:54 * bsmntbombdood hasn't been paying attention to this psox stuff 03:33:30 hm, maybe I shouldn't have Unsafe functionality be as complicated as I'm imagining it... 03:54:55 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-exit-demo.b 03:56:42 * pikhq approves 03:57:02 Looks like it ought to be easy to implement PEBBLE macros for it. :) 03:57:33 I may want to add the "if-provided" feature that I've been meaning to, though. 03:58:03 if-provided? 03:58:32 To test to see if a compiler provides certain features. . . 03:58:51 PSOX isn't part of the compiler.. 03:58:58 if-provided PSOX {code}, for example, to test to see if PSOX is supported in the target language. 03:59:32 Some of the target languages mightn't allow for PSOX. 03:59:42 pikhq, examples? 03:59:54 C. Interpreter backend. 04:00:11 Also useful if I want to do PSOX-specific versions of macros. . . 04:00:32 PSOX has to be enabled at the beginning of the program.. 04:00:50 Clearly, you don't get what I mean. 04:00:59 I probably don't :( 04:01:25 Trying to allow for one bit of source-code to compile to something which uses PSOX and something which doesn't. 04:02:02 oh 04:03:14 Question: Is it ok if a program has to declare that it wants to use unsafe features at the beginning, before doing anything else? 04:04:53 As far as I'm concerned: yes. 04:06:24 Did you catch what function I switched around? 04:07:39 No, I've not looked. 04:09:38 check 04:10:47 Give up? 04:11:04 Not even started to bother. 04:11:25 Want to know? 04:11:27 Sure. 04:11:42 * Sgeo switched [0x00 0x01 0x00] 0x00 0x06 to [0x00 0x01 0x00] 0x00 0x07 04:12:01 Ah. 04:14:21 It's so I can place the Request Unsafe Functionality there 04:14:35 * pikhq nods 04:14:45 Since 6, with it's relation to 666, and the fact that it's unsafe.. 04:14:50 >.> 04:28:33 Igh, too tired to work on this now.. 04:28:35 G'night 04:33:21 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:37:03 -!- calamari has joined. 04:43:07 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:33:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:33:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:36:18 -!- dibblego has joined. 05:59:55 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 06:14:30 -!- calamari_ has joined. 06:14:39 -!- calamari_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:15:27 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("Stuffs."). 07:38:32 -!- mtve has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:27:55 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 08:54:44 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:12:32 -!- SimonRC has quit (No route to host). 09:27:10 -!- Naranek has joined. 10:09:14 -!- tappi has joined. 10:15:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:16:08 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:02:12 -!- lakupuu has joined. 11:03:53 -!- jix_ has joined. 12:08:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:13:26 -!- c1|freaky has left (?). 12:13:51 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:14:11 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 12:27:55 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:06:21 -!- Karnaugh has joined. 13:07:15 Could somebody please open a socket to microsoft.com on port 80? 13:11:00 http://www.microsoft.com loads fine here 13:11:41 this language doesn't work very well 13:18:57 oh it was IRP? 13:19:17 i just translated your instruction to a higher level :) 13:21:38 then you are a bug 13:21:43 :P 13:22:02 * oerjan chirps like a cricket 13:22:12 or whatever it's called 13:27:23 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:33:24 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:39:55 -!- chton_ has joined. 13:39:55 -!- chton has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:41:57 -!- jix_ has joined. 13:57:36 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:36:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner"). 14:55:37 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:43:46 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:04:23 -!- tappi has quit. 16:15:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:23:06 -!- SimonRC has joined. 18:22:27 -!- helios24 has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:22:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:22:28 -!- sp3tt has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:23:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:23:10 -!- helios24 has joined. 18:23:10 -!- sp3tt has joined. 18:33:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out). 18:34:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:41:39 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:43:07 -!- ololobot has joined. 18:43:20 mrning y'all 18:44:48 >>> sch (define (cons a b) (lambda (n) (cond ((= n 0) a) (1 b))))(define (car a) (a 0))(define (cdr a) (a 1))(cdr (car (cons (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4)))) 18:44:48 num:2 18:45:51 hmm.. wonder if i should actually add those primitively... they might be a bit essential 18:48:12 writing a scheme? 19:04:53 oklopol: make NOTHING primitive that you can't 19:05:20 oklopol: I assume + is (- x (neg y))? ;) 19:08:17 lament: i wrote one on friday, yeah, just didn't make that much primitives, since i was lazy 19:09:07 hmm 19:09:17 it should now save stuff between runs 19:09:23 but prolly doesn't. 19:09:28 >>> sch (define oko 5) 19:09:32 >>> sch (* oko 8) 19:10:53 guess i should try and fix that 19:11:13 i need a better brain, always making mistakes in trivial code... 19:17:11 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:17:52 eh 19:18:02 now it works... didn't change the code. 19:18:27 sch (define (cons a b) (lambda (n) (cond ((= n 0) a) (1 b))))(define (car a) (a 0))(define (cdr a) (a 1)) 19:18:36 >>> sch (define (cons a b) (lambda (n) (cond ((= n 0) a) (1 b))))(define (car a) (a 0))(define (cdr a) (a 1)) 19:18:37 None 19:18:41 hmm 19:18:51 >>> sch (car (cons 5 6)) 19:18:55 .. 19:18:56 num:5 19:19:00 oh 19:19:01 cool 19:19:10 my scheme has lists \o/ 19:19:13 well, somewhat 19:26:48 -!- ololobot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:27:06 haha, guess i should continue debugging offline :D 19:27:19 -!- importantshock has joined. 19:29:45 hehe 19:42:24 -!- importantshock has quit. 19:56:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:21:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:21:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:08 -!- ololobot has joined. 20:23:15 insisted on using primitive lists and was lazy, so i don't have stuff like (2 3 4 . 5) 20:23:44 but it should work as long as you use cons just with a list as r-param... 20:24:06 >>> sch (cons 3 ()) 20:24:06 (num:3) 20:26:20 >>> sch (define o 7) 20:26:20 () 20:26:26 >>> sch o 20:26:26 num:7 20:27:56 >>> sch (cons 3 3) 20:27:56 err:cons-not-def-for:num:3 20:28:17 * oerjan had hoped for a spectacular crash 20:28:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:29:00 hehe 20:29:12 i don't think you can crash it 20:29:21 the bot that is 20:29:28 you can crash the interpreter though 20:30:23 >>> sch (undef o) 20:30:24 None 20:30:27 >>> sch o 20:30:28 None 20:30:41 is "undef" a scheme command? 20:30:47 i mean, does that exist in scheme 20:31:13 i'll gogulate? good idea 20:31:41 gogulare necesse est 20:32:21 i can't find such a command 20:32:51 >>> sch (define (k a) (lambda (b) a)) 20:32:52 () 20:32:57 >>> sch ((k 4) 5) 20:33:01 umm 20:33:30 >>> sch (define k (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 20:33:31 () 20:33:34 >>> sch ((k 4) 5) 20:33:38 >>> sch (k 4) 20:33:44 GLAH. 20:34:34 i guess i broke the whole thing when adding lists, had to make a gigantic refactoring 20:34:55 you'd think i'd've debugged after that, but noooo 20:42:25 >>> sch ((k 6) 7) 20:42:26 num:6 20:42:30 yay 20:42:41 >>> sch (define (i a) a) 20:42:42 () 20:42:43 hm 20:42:48 >>> sch (i 5) 20:42:55 heh 20:43:10 >>> sch (define i (lambda (a) a)) 20:43:11 () 20:43:12 >>> sch (i 5) 20:43:12 num:5 20:43:18 wonder what that was about. 20:43:24 >>> sch (+ 5 5) 20:43:25 num:10 20:43:41 >>> sch (if (< 0 1) 1 2) 20:43:42 num:1 20:43:42 oh 20:43:45 s 20:44:18 >>> sch (define s (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))) 20:44:18 () 20:44:21 is that correct? 20:44:36 hmm 20:44:41 >>> ul ```skk6 20:44:51 >>> ul ```skki 20:44:51 -> i 20:44:55 >>> ul ```skka 20:44:56 -> a 20:45:14 >>> sch (s (k (k 3))) 20:45:14 20:45:23 umm... 20:45:25 oh 20:45:35 >>> sch (((s k) k) 3) 20:45:49 sch (define fib (lambda (n) (if (< n 2) 1 (+ (fib (- n 1) (- n 2)))))) 20:45:50 :< 20:45:54 >>> sch (define fib (lambda (n) (if (< n 2) 1 (+ (fib (- n 1) (- n 2)))))) 20:45:55 () 20:45:58 :\ 20:46:02 that oughtta work... 20:46:08 >>> sch (fib 5) 20:46:09 num:1 20:46:14 eh 20:46:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:46:18 eek 20:46:24 (fib (- n 1) (- n 2)) <<< sure about this? :) 20:46:37 er, no 20:46:52 >>> sch (define fib (lambda (n) (if (< n 2) 1 (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2))))))) 20:46:53 () 20:46:57 >>> sch (fib 5) 20:46:58 hmm 20:46:58 num:8 20:47:04 cewl 20:47:20 it doesn't optimize tail recursion, so be gentle :) 20:47:26 warning: big numbers not recommended 20:47:33 ? 20:47:41 >>> sch (fib 20) 20:47:41 this fib is not even tail recursive :) 20:47:42 ah 20:47:44 yeah :P 20:48:03 num:10946 20:48:21 but... my combinators :< 20:48:25 why didn't they work.. 20:48:35 >>> sch (define s (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))) 20:48:35 () 20:48:39 s 20:48:41 >>> sch s 20:48:42 20:48:47 >>> sch (s 1) 20:48:48 20:48:52 >>> sch ((s 1) 1) 20:48:53 20:48:58 >>> sch (((s 1) 1) 1) 20:49:36 i 20:49:37 don't 20:49:38 get 20:49:39 it 20:49:56 what should it give? 1 is not a function is it? 20:50:09 no 20:50:09 but 20:50:16 >>> sch (((s k) k) 3) 20:50:22 shouldn't that be i? 20:50:46 indeed 20:50:58 >>> sch (define s-guy (lambda (a) (lambda (b) 9))) 20:50:58 () 20:51:13 >>> sch (define s-boy (lambda (a) 0)) 20:51:14 () 20:51:28 >>> (((s s-guy) s-boy) 6) 20:52:26 >>> sch (define a (k 5)) (define b (k 6)) (+ (a 7) (b 8)) 20:52:27 num:11 20:52:34 static scoping should work fine 20:52:42 so... what's wrung :< 20:53:01 guess i'll debug... ASDF 20:56:04 >>> sch ((k 1) 2) 20:56:04 num:1 20:57:12 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 20:57:58 >>> sch (((s (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) (lambda (y) (+ y 1))) 1) 20:57:59 err:not-callable(num:5) 20:58:21 5? 20:58:29 >>> sch (((s k) k) 4) 20:58:30 err:not-callable(num:5) 20:58:31 oh 20:58:47 that must be broken in a very weird way. 20:59:33 hmm... 20:59:45 you could try first doing what s does manually 20:59:48 so... 21:00:14 >>> sch (((lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 1) ((lambda (y) (+ y 1)) 1)) 21:00:20 eh 21:00:21 okay. 21:00:43 >>> sch((lambda (y) (+ y 1)) 1) 21:00:45 >>> sch ((lambda (y) (+ y 1)) 1) 21:00:46 num:2 21:01:03 >>> sch (((lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 1) 2) 21:02:05 okay, if that doesn't work, then the problem can't be that deep 21:02:15 i mean, it prolly isn't deep 21:02:23 wonder what could do that... 21:03:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Connection timed out). 21:05:00 the problem is i haven't done python list -> my own list wrap yet for all the lambda code... i think... 21:06:17 >>> sch (((lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 1) 2) 21:06:17 num:3 21:06:25 >>> sch (((lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 1) ((lambda (y) (+ y 1)) 1)) 21:06:26 num:3 21:06:33 >>> sch (((s k) k) 4) 21:06:39 .. 21:06:46 >>> ((k 4) 6) 21:06:57 for a minute i thought it workde. 21:07:00 *worked 21:07:43 >>> sch (((s (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) (lambda (y) (+ y 1))) 1) 21:08:59 eh 21:09:04 it's offline now 21:09:04 wait 21:09:12 online 21:09:16 >>> sch (((s (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) (lambda (y) (+ y 1))) 1) 21:09:25 >>> sch s 21:09:26 None 21:09:32 but... it worked a second ago... it's just not working online :\ 21:09:33 and oh 21:09:45 >>> sch (define s (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))) 21:09:46 () 21:10:00 >>> sch (((s (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) (lambda (y) (+ y 1))) 1) 21:10:01 >>> sch (define k (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (a)))) 21:10:01 num:3 21:10:02 () 21:10:04 >>> sch (define k (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 21:10:04 () 21:10:13 it worked 21:10:18 cewl 21:10:23 >>> sch (((s k) k) 4) 21:10:24 num:4 21:10:28 \o/ 21:10:59 >>> sch (define i (lambda (a) a)) 21:10:59 () 21:11:15 the problem was in my function for checking what variable names a function uses for the purpose of clozeurs. 21:11:30 >>> sch (i 4) 21:11:30 num:4 21:11:51 >>> sch ((lamdba (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lamdba (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) 21:12:14 hmm 21:12:17 list 21:12:19 spelling lambda correctly might help 21:12:19 i'll make that 21:12:36 i don't have list, didn't remember that existed 21:12:57 >>> sch (((s i) i) ((s i) i)) 21:12:59 bah 21:13:09 >>> (define (list . x) x) 21:13:13 >>> sch (define (list . x) x) 21:13:14 () 21:13:21 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) 21:13:21 None 21:13:29 bsmntbombdood_: also "." doesn't exist yet 21:13:32 it's a bit stub. 21:14:49 hmm 21:14:53 >>> sch (list 1 2 3) 21:14:53 * oerjan wonders if his infinite loop is still running 21:14:53 (num:1 num:2 num:3) 21:15:02 oerjan: stack overflow in a millisecond 21:15:15 >> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:15:24 hmm 21:15:25 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:15:44 >>> sch (quote quote) 21:15:45 spc:quote 21:15:49 hmm 21:16:37 >>> sch (eval (+ `(quote) `(5)) 21:16:38 num:5 21:16:48 those are first-class, methinks 21:16:56 quasiquote! 21:17:15 >>> sch (define a (lambda (a) (a (5)))) 21:17:16 () 21:17:25 >>> sch (a quote) 21:17:26 err:not-callable(spc:quote) 21:17:29 (5)? 21:17:32 darn. 21:17:39 oh 21:17:40 well yeah, if quote is first-order... 21:17:51 macros aren't first order in scheme 21:17:59 they should be though 21:18:02 yeah 21:18:07 i haven't followed any spec 21:18:20 first-order and first-class aren't quite same, me thinks 21:18:24 i was just in my friends hallway waiting for him to come and programmed that... 21:18:27 *the 21:18:39 and i don't know much about scheme 21:18:53 but... i gotta fix that, i want them to be first order... 21:18:57 ah 21:18:58 eh 21:19:01 first-class 21:19:41 umm 21:19:45 >>> sch (quote (5)) 21:19:46 (num:5) 21:19:49 i wrote a scheme with first class macros 21:19:54 >>> sch (eval `(quote (5))) 21:19:54 (num:5) 21:20:49 hmm 21:20:57 >>> sch (a quote) 21:24:04 >>> sch `(quote (+ 1 2)) 21:24:26 it's offline, debugging 21:24:49 hmm... i should add an error message for bad requests... 21:25:09 !this does it, and ! is quite a lot more probable prefix for a random message than >>> 21:25:13 Huh? 21:25:13 oh 21:25:16 yeha 21:25:19 eyahyae 21:27:15 oh... darn, (a (5)) isn't considered a special form since what is evaluated and what is not is decided at the beginning of the eval-function... 21:27:35 the pattern (id num) will lead to normal evaluation 21:27:51 for first class macros i assume you need to evaluate the first element first, before deciding on the rest 21:27:53 hmm... guess i could fix that... but that's another refactoring... GADS 21:27:56 yeah 21:28:03 and that's exactly what i don't do yet 21:29:08 > liftM2 (,) [1..5] [1..5] 21:29:50 Wong Chan-Nel, my old nemesis, so we meet again 21:31:26 :P 21:31:29 you never learn! 21:31:49 (define a (lambda (b) (b (5)))) 21:31:49 (a quote) 21:31:52 eh 21:31:54 at least you get to learn - a little haskell 21:32:00 >>> sch (define a (lambda (b) (b (5)))) 21:32:01 () 21:32:06 >>> sch (a quote) 21:32:07 (num:5) 21:32:12 "a quote" 21:32:15 hahaha 21:32:34 anyway, i think it has first-class macros now 21:32:53 what's liftM2 then, oerjan 21:32:54 ? 21:33:13 i'll code it in scheme 21:34:15 lakupuu: great nick :D 21:34:54 i'm pretty sure that change broke everything else, though 21:35:01 i mean that first-class zippidy 21:35:25 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:35:43 >>> sch (quote ()) 21:35:44 () 21:36:21 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (x (a b))) quote) 21:36:22 (id:a id:b) 21:36:26 uh 21:36:28 hey hey hey 21:36:29 oh 21:36:52 bsmntbombdood_: is that supposed to be a quine? 21:36:55 eh 21:37:04 why am i asking, i just checked with drscheme 21:37:06 :DD 21:37:41 >>> sch (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) 21:37:50 >>> sch (quote quote) 21:37:51 spc:quote 21:38:04 >>> sch (cons x (quote ())) 21:38:05 (None) 21:38:06 >>> sch (cons x (quote ()) 21:38:07 (None) 21:38:08 ... 21:38:15 oh 21:38:17 haha 21:39:55 spc? 21:40:03 and that type prefix is annoying 21:41:44 oklopol: liftM2 f cmd1 cmd2 = do x <- cmd1; y <- cmd2; return (f x y) 21:41:59 however, liftM2 (,) on lists is cartesian product 21:42:24 hmm 21:42:28 other monads will differ 21:42:44 bsmntbombdood_: i know, i'm gonna take it away soon, it was for debugging purposes 21:43:27 oerjan: i decided not to program it in scheme. 21:43:34 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:43:57 umm... kay 21:43:57 i was sort of expecting that :D 21:43:59 >>> sch () 21:44:00 () 21:44:04 hmm 21:44:13 i guess it's just too long with the type prefixes 21:44:31 i'll remove 21:44:39 perhaps if i write a pure list version with functions: 21:44:53 >>> sch () 21:44:54 () 21:44:56 >>> sch 5 21:44:57 5 21:45:00 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:45:06 . 21:45:18 it just worked, i saw it with my own i's 21:46:10 >>> sch (5) 21:46:11 not-callable(5) 21:46:21 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:46:50 ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) <<< this is output if i run from command line 21:47:23 and the bot just effectively calls that same function and outputs what comes out... 21:48:03 >>> sch (((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (self) (lambda (a b) (if (= b 0) a ((self self) (+ a 1) (- b 1)))))) 4 5) 21:48:03 9 21:48:07 what's the max message lenght? 21:48:09 yay 21:48:10 *length 21:48:24 512? 21:48:27 256? 21:48:30 176? 21:49:23 bsmntbombdood_: what does x do there? :P 21:49:24 liftM2 f l1 l2 = concatMap (\x -> map (\y -> f x y) l1) l2 21:49:58 that's the Y combinator 21:50:19 Eidolos: i know, that doesn't answer my question 21:50:49 also, message length? :) 21:51:09 that quine isn't working because max length for ololobot is 137 characters? 21:51:12 *-? 21:52:01 if you don't answer soon, i swear i'm gonna *google* :| 21:53:42 oklopol: thx 21:53:47 ^^ 21:54:27 liquorice tree 21:54:44 LIQUOR TREE??? 21:54:55 no 21:54:58 liquor ICE 21:55:03 like frozen booze 21:55:07 message length may vary between irc servers i think, although there is some minimum 21:55:07 LICK HER EYES? 21:55:42 GregorR: is there something wrong in doing that? 21:56:11 NO, I JUST WUV THE SHIFT KEY 21:56:18 i am sure a finnish guy would appreciate a liquor tree 21:56:36 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:56:55 -!- ololobot has joined. 21:56:59 and that the liquorice might only apply during harsh winters 21:57:05 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ()))) 21:57:06 ((lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))) (quote (lambda (x) (cons x (cons (cons (quote quote) (cons x (quote ()))) (quote ())))))) 21:57:13 bot loop time!!!!!!!!11 21:57:26 :D 21:58:19 oerjan: i don't do much alcohol nowadays 21:58:31 (just updating your statistics) 21:58:52 (i'm sure that changed the finnish average use) 21:59:14 i was just attempting a stereotypic joke, but i guess the finnish don't understand those 21:59:36 (the swedes certainly don't) 22:00:38 oerjan: i did understand it, mine was a follow-up joke though. 22:00:38 that's all american jokes are 22:00:51 "a rabii, and preist, and a blonde walk into a bar..." 22:00:53 blech 22:01:54 wish i had food 22:02:57 SO, A JEWISH GUY, A CATHOLIC, A MORMON AND A CHRISTIAN WALK INTO A BAR. THE CHRISTIAN SAYS "I'M AMERICAN YOU ALL HATE JESUS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" 22:03:50 i don't believe in religions 22:04:15 gonna eat the most edible thing in the kitchen, unless poisonous -> 22:04:30 watch out, potted plants" 22:04:33 *! 22:04:50 although i guess those died long ago 22:05:15 oh right, food... afk 22:05:28 i don't have a pot jungle yet, since my parents live here too. 22:05:51 i want some food 22:05:55 hmm... pot = amphetamine? 22:06:04 uuuuuuuuuhhh no 22:06:07 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to xor. 22:06:07 ur whut 22:07:13 i read a long list of drug slang terms, after that i only knew balling is inserting heroin vaginally. 22:07:25 well read. 22:07:50 aah yes 22:08:07 i read an acount of a bunch of dykes trying a bunch of drugs vaginally 22:08:33 i can imagine taht 22:08:34 *that 22:09:51 um, potted plant = plant living in a pot. i guess your parents living there increases the chances of them surviving. 22:10:21 yeah, they'd also bought me food. 22:11:03 so... plants are safe 22:22:57 oerjan: i also got that joke btw, i'll promise to laugh at your next joke so you don't have to explain it :) 22:23:05 i mean, got it when you said it 22:23:06 not now 22:23:10 that's be a bit slow 22:23:14 *that'd 22:25:34 does scheme have monads? 22:25:42 they say it has everything. 22:26:01 not built in 22:28:57 there have been made monad libraries for scheme, is my understanding 22:30:42 there is a theorem that says if you have continuations and mutable variables, then you can do everything monads can do in ordinary syntax 22:31:11 and scheme does have those 22:31:54 although you don't get the haskell type tricks that go with them, i guess 22:32:07 monads are ugly 22:34:11 oerjan: by "ordinary syntax" you mean, instead of bind you use actual semicolons? 22:34:46 and let 22:35:10 afaiu 22:35:36 xor: i agree they're ugly 22:35:53 the entire area is still being developed 22:36:12 the ugliness is probably temporary 22:36:51 the solution is mutable variables 22:37:41 is that what clean does? 22:37:47 oh 22:37:55 you mean what C does? :) 22:38:22 what scheme does 22:38:25 clean has uniqueness types 22:39:08 it does mutation when the types prove the original value is no longer used 22:39:36 (because the value had a unique reference, which was discarded) 22:40:38 oerjan: have you played with it? is it more convenient? 22:41:03 xor: then it's not a solution to the problem monads try to solve. 22:41:25 it was in the monad paper i read 22:43:13 nope, just read a bit 22:44:57 oerjan: i'm not at all convinced monads are the optimal... things get very hairy with transformers 23:31:44 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:45:25 >>> sch "foo" 23:45:26 None 23:45:42 hmm 23:45:49 i actually thought i had strings 23:45:53 guess i didn't. 23:46:59 hmm 23:47:04 there are no strings attached 23:47:10 >>> sch (define "o" 3) "o" 23:47:11 3 23:47:19 oerjan: haha :P 23:47:26 (see? i get them) 23:47:31 >>> sch (define define define) define 23:47:32 define 23:47:41 heh 23:47:47 i was going to tell you if you didn't :) 23:47:49 >>> sch (define) 23:48:12 >>> (define define 5) define 23:48:23 oh 23:48:37 did i kill it 23:48:40 >>> sch 4 23:48:41 4 23:48:43 no 23:49:13 but... hmm 23:49:21 why can't you redefine define... 23:50:01 hmm, macros are first class but the names aren't 23:50:02 err 23:50:05 or something like that 23:50:17 >>> sch define 23:50:18 define 23:50:46 you can't see the prefix now, but that's not a variable name with the primitive macro "define" in it, it's the actual macro 23:51:09 that's not good... guess i should do some massive refactoring 23:51:41 >>> sch (define + 5) + 23:51:42 5 23:51:48 >>> sch (+ 6 7) 23:51:48 13 23:52:31 i made it restore primitives eash run, because i like to ruin ppl's fun 23:56:03 >>> ((lambda (a) (eval (a b 6))) define) b 23:56:08 hmm 23:56:29 >>> ((lambda (a) (eval `(a b 6))) define) b 23:57:05 eh 23:58:05 darn, more stuff i gotta add to that 23:58:18 scheme has a lot more stuff than i imagined... 23:58:45 that minimalism thing is just a scam... 23:59:09 hmm... how do you use "define" inside a function? 23:59:21 i mean 23:59:29 do you have to use let... i don't remember 23:59:36 i don't have let either :<<< 23:59:46 soooooo many synonyms 2007-08-28: 00:00:50 ((lambda (a) (eval `(a b 6)) b) define) b 00:01:13 smth like that, but i need lambda to take multiple... statements (?) 00:01:20 words are so hard 00:01:29 now swedish vocabulary -> 00:02:27 define can only be used at the beginning of a "block" 00:04:04 expressions, i guess, and the expressions of a lambda is one example of a block 00:04:44 -!- xor has quit (Connection timed out). 00:07:03 lessee, b is the length of the _arc_ so something trigonometric is necessary 00:07:10 argh! 00:08:07 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:47:22 -!- oerjan has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:47:22 -!- dibblego has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:47:22 -!- EgoBot has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:47:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:47:57 -!- dibblego has joined. 00:47:57 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:48:52 -!- oerjan has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:49:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:11:42 -!- navaburo has joined. 01:47:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 01:48:10 -!- kwertii has joined. 01:54:49 i hate my internets :( 02:15:19 all of them? 02:23:33 i don't have any good ones 02:24:22 Uh. . . 02:24:27 I like singing? 02:29:09 I love to sing-a About the moon-a and the June-a and the spring-a ... 03:30:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:34:14 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 04:17:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:22:25 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:23:26 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 05:06:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 05:14:56 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:15:25 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 05:42:20 -!- navaburo has left (?). 05:57:40 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:44:35 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 07:20:32 -!- sorear has joined. 07:25:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:44:09 -!- sorear has quit ("zzz"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:16:39 -!- pbxs2002 has joined. 08:17:21 someone please tell me if i should call this girl at 2:15AM .. thanks 08:34:35 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:38:23 -!- pbxs2002 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:01:38 -!- oklopol has joined. 09:02:36 -!- kwertii has quit. 09:27:19 -!- Arrogant has joined. 10:05:59 -!- Karnaugh has left (?). 10:18:16 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 10:39:32 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 11:37:04 -!- jix_ has joined. 11:39:34 -!- ololobot has joined. 11:39:43 >>> i okokokoko 11:39:44 okokokoko 11:39:51 >>> k okokokokoko okokoko 11:39:52 okokokokoko 11:40:37 hmm... 11:40:46 >>> s a b c 11:40:46 Please tell oklopol how the standard combinator should behave. 11:40:55 i actually think i know what that should do... 11:40:58 but it's not pretty. 11:43:21 plus it's not possible with the current infrastructure 12:17:40 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:28:53 -!- jix_ has joined. 12:55:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:34:17 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:34:33 -!- jix__ has joined. 14:26:35 -!- navaburo has joined. 14:27:23 is there a straight forward way to find an elegant program to produce a certain output? 14:28:12 say in brainfuck, i want to output some string of eight bytes using the fewest possible instructions.... 14:28:27 umm 14:28:36 you can't find the shortest program in the general case 14:28:55 !bf_gen you can use this for starters 14:28:58 Huh? 14:29:02 !bf_text_gen you can use this for starters 14:29:06 Huh? 14:29:06 !bf_txt_gen you can use this for starters 14:29:08 heh 14:29:10 Huh? 14:29:13 i fail 14:29:14 !help 14:29:16 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 14:29:18 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 14:29:22 !bf_txtgen you can use this for starters 14:29:24 right 14:29:30 due to incompleteness 14:29:34 yes 14:29:54 but if i restrict the program to output only (no , instruction), perhaps i can? 14:30:05 err no 14:30:38 161 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>.>>+.<<----.<-.>>.--.>-.<<<.>.--.>++++.<<.>+.>+++.+.<-.<.>>---.>+.+++.<<<.>.+.>-----.<--.>>++.<++++.<.+. [244] 14:30:57 and if i prefilter for indefinate loops? 14:31:08 how do you do that? 14:31:20 well... dont run any program containing [] 14:31:30 or [.] 14:31:31 +[>+] 14:31:31 ? 14:31:34 or [+-] 14:31:52 oklopol: sure, that one would get past a naive prefilter 14:31:57 well, you can't spot infinite loops 14:32:09 i ment loops giving repeating identical conditions 14:32:22 those aren't the only infinite loops 14:32:29 sure 14:33:06 you can do stuff like finding the shortest program that produces a string in *reasonable* time 14:34:34 but because you prolly don't actually need the absolutely shortest program, just find a way to produce strings with *pretty* short code for most strings, and then make a program that converts string -> code for that string 14:34:40 exactly like bf_txtgen does 14:34:55 but you don't have to use 4 cells 14:35:18 i would sleep better at night knowing it was the provably shortest program 14:35:47 do you need a spesific string or the general case? 14:36:35 mmm a specific string i suppose 14:36:45 for what? 14:37:26 i can't get wikipedia open today, dunno why, but there's the shortest programs for numbers 0...255 there 14:37:35 well 14:37:37 some pedia. 14:37:45 ook, i will check that out 14:38:38 dunno if those are proven to be the shortest ones, but they most likely are 14:40:33 mm i am having trouble fnding it 14:42:12 can't help ya :\ 14:42:18 my internets don't work 14:42:24 except for this client 14:42:28 for some reason 14:42:28 well thanks anywho, i hope you get them fixed 14:46:55 (my firefox has been crazy unstable lately... idk if it is an update problem) 15:24:01 -!- Figs has joined. 15:27:18 Good morning 15:27:19 http://cpp.sourceforge.net/?show=39846 15:27:31 I have produced real obfuscated C :) 15:27:44 muahaha. 15:30:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:45:06 that "odd" is fun 15:45:37 too odd 15:48:29 :P 15:48:30 thanks 15:48:36 I like self-documenting code... 15:50:22 hmm... i'm pretty sure i was gonna say pretty that exact same line 15:50:23 :\ 15:51:20 at least i was thinking it 15:51:34 guess that's a pretty common obfuscation joke 15:51:42 guess that's the only obfuscation joke. 15:53:14 :P 15:53:18 must be 15:53:39 I wonder if I can figure out how to get my brainfuck interpreter to be smaller than that... 15:59:01 is that a bf interpreter? 16:01:10 no 16:01:17 it's a hello world program 16:01:26 my next one will be the bf interpreter 16:01:42 (already wrote an interpreter... just need to think of a crap load of evil ways to obfuscate it) 16:09:48 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:10:39 oklopol: you were thinking of [[Brainfuck constants]] on esolangs 16:11:01 can any of you compile my code? :S 16:12:22 the wrapping ones are probably the shortest possible. 16:13:05 wrapping? 16:13:24 oerjan: indeed i was 16:13:40 255+ -> 0 and vice versa 16:13:48 -!- lakupuu has left (?). 16:16:06 the wrapping allows you to do tricks based on division (mod 256) 16:16:25 ah 16:16:35 on my computer wrapping -> negative 16:16:59 I did a few things with that... 16:16:59 oerjan: you think non wrapping stuff is harder to make as short as possible? 16:17:06 maybe that's why some people are having problems 16:17:26 well they are longer so it's more to search for 16:17:32 Figs: depends on whether you're using signed or not 16:17:41 ah, i didn't think of that 16:18:23 I think I only wrapped 16:18:29 but I don't really remember 16:18:32 umm 16:18:35 what does that mean? 16:18:41 no, I think I subtracted once 16:18:42 :P 16:18:44 damn 16:18:48 that's probably what killed it 16:18:55 eh... i have no idea what you mean 16:19:01 :P 16:19:12 oklopol, char c = 0; c--; 16:19:21 char can be either signed or not 16:19:30 it's implementation defined 16:20:19 in any case wrapping -128..127 or 0..255 don't make a difference for brainfuck 16:20:43 it's just a 256-element cycle in any case 16:20:45 yeah 16:20:47 does in my program though :P 16:21:45 egobfi has several bitsize options, so it can map on 2^16 or 2^32, also 2^8 is not the default 16:21:53 !help 16:21:56 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 16:21:59 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 16:22:21 but no unbounded version 16:22:33 >>> bf is unbounded 16:23:12 * Figs wonders if he can find a good use for longjmp(foo,rand%n+1)... 16:23:32 rand() if you actually expect it to think about compiling itself. 16:33:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:36:19 `night 16:40:15 bye! 16:46:40 -!- helios24 has joined. 16:56:30 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:25:55 zabber ook al in 17:25:58 euhm 17:26:00 wrong channel 17:40:35 ook is perfectly on topic :) 18:11:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:18:10 why can't you do ` over y... :| 18:18:31 you can have and ` on aeiou, but y only does 18:20:01 Because our system for encoding letters is very primitive and doesn't allow arbitrary accents on arbitrary letters. 18:20:07 presumably because it isn't used in a western european language 18:20:55 yeah, but it kinda sucks if it's the *only* one that doesn't exist, thus breaking a nice set just to save one character :< 18:21:08 a e i o u y`y 18:21:41 what does / do usually? 18:22:08 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 18:22:15 is there a list of different phonemes with sound samples somewhere? 18:22:24 nasal vowels, i think 18:22:30 nasal vowels in Portuguese 18:22:42 hmm, indeed 18:22:53 the little squiggle on top used to be an "n" 18:23:58 hmm... a diphtong is quite hard to make :D 18:24:14 a is easy 18:25:40 does unicode have all vocals "`"'d? 18:26:05 ãa seems pretty easy... 18:27:06 it becomes an "" when i do it... 18:27:46 i mean, when i do it fast 18:28:04 maybe you're not doing it right? The only change between the two is in nasality 18:28:27 hmm, it actually became pretty easy now that i actually added some thought 18:28:29 oklopol: unicode has combining accents 18:29:16 in "a" you basically say "a", but you make a nasal dip, my nose makes a funny move when i do it 18:29:20 but indeed, it's pretty easy 18:29:39 combining accents 18:29:42 i so know what you mean 18:30:30 * oerjan detects a subtle sarcasm 18:30:44 oh? open a window! 18:31:05 you can write the accents as separate characters, to be combined with letters 18:31:33 so can you do ~+`++u? 18:31:40 i can easily pronounce that 18:31:55 i don't even know how you'd write that on paper though... 18:31:57 some south-east asian languages have so many accents on their vowels you cannot possibly include all possibilities 18:32:21 you can have more than one on a letter, certainly 18:32:28 cool 18:32:29 serializing writing is a lost cause anyway 18:32:32 it's too complicated 18:32:34 i recall there is some kind of predefined stacking order 18:32:52 any encoding method will be either extremely inefficient or extremely complicated 18:33:03 currently we're using extremely inefficient ones 18:33:20 please say "foo bsmntbom1dood" 18:33:29 foo bsmntbom1dood 18:33:29 which, apart from being exremely inefficient, don't allow to encode anything you might want to encode 18:35:34 is there a list of different phonemes with sound samples somewhere? <<< i'll assume "no" from all your enthusiasm? 18:35:49 to answer 18:36:04 probably... i'd start with the IPA wikipedia article 18:40:06 oklopol: perhaps use phoneme speaking software, and feed it each phoneme individually 18:40:22 text to speach packages frequently allow either natural language or phonetic input 18:41:25 natural language = english pronunciation? 18:41:39 natural language being normal text 18:41:59 in finnish there's no real difference 18:42:24 i think i have a text->speech thing 18:42:36 don't remember the name, but it's a finite hard-drive... 18:45:04 what OS? 18:45:25 windows 18:45:33 dl'd a million years ago 18:45:42 but never opened it 18:46:01 there is a built in text to speech utility in XP 18:46:10 ah that one 18:46:19 does that do phoneticz? 18:46:22 i dont think it will take phonetic inputs with the control panel interface 18:46:58 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to xor. 18:50:05 well i am SURE festival can do what you want 18:50:13 from what i see you can compile it on windows 18:51:02 festival? 18:51:10 thuz the name? 18:51:12 http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/ 18:51:28 cool 18:51:41 -!- kwertii has joined. 18:51:46 it works well, kinda a pain in the ass to get set up iirc, but it is super flexible 18:52:59 i'll try it when i'm less tired 18:53:43 yea, i tried building it from source but gave up and got the unix binary :) 18:55:29 someone should come up with a regex-like notation for context-free grammars 18:55:51 why? 18:56:07 because BNF is too verbose 18:56:21 er, you haven't heard of EBNF? 18:57:06 it essentially means using regex things inside BNF to shorten it 18:57:14 that's still not regex-like 18:57:35 better than straight up bnf, but not good enough 18:57:36 xor: i have the nestor syntax for that exact purpose 18:57:58 though nestor also has macros for making more general bnf's 18:58:08 not good enough for what? 18:58:15 what exactly do you want this for? 18:58:30 nothing 18:58:40 lament: he obviously wants BNF to look like line noise 18:59:12 i want something that doesn't involve production rules 18:59:34 well you need recursion somehow 18:59:38 or multiple statements 18:59:52 regexes have | 19:00:35 multiple named statements, then 19:00:56 point-free BNF 19:01:36 try running haskell's Parsec through lambdabot's @pl 19:01:37 hm, you could just express BNF in haskell and then @pl 19:01:40 haha :) 19:02:03 that doesn't change anything 19:02:08 parsec stuff sits in a monad, that must be a huge pain to @pl 19:02:21 well use @undo first 19:02:30 xor: what do you mean, doesn't change anything? 19:02:44 it's still just bnf 19:03:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 19:03:38 oerjan: i don't think @pl would work, though... 19:03:58 xor: yeah, but this procedure would get rid of named statements (if it does work) 19:04:12 and that doesn't mean anything 19:04:22 well, it means i don't know how to describe what i want 19:04:51 that would be more verbose than bnf 19:04:55 yes, it would 19:04:58 by far 19:05:05 you said nothing about being less verbose 19:05:12 yeah i did 19:05:27 anyway 19:05:31 < lament> why? 19:05:34 < xor> because BNF is too verbose 19:05:52 yeah, but your specific requests were to get rid of production rules and named statements 19:05:56 anyway 19:06:13 the reason such a thing doesn't exist is primarily because it would be horrendously ugly and useless 19:06:23 making it anonymous doesn't get rid of production rules 19:06:26 but since we're in #esoteric, feel free to invent one 19:08:54 exactly 19:19:30 -!- xor_ has joined. 19:23:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:24:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:24:51 -!- xor__ has joined. 19:30:10 -!- xor___ has joined. 19:30:46 -!- xor has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:35:29 -!- xor has joined. 19:36:22 -!- xor_ has quit (Success). 19:38:02 -!- ihope has joined. 19:41:41 -!- xor__ has quit (Connection timed out). 19:46:59 -!- xor___ has quit (Connection timed out). 20:00:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:09:35 -!- xor_ has joined. 20:14:53 -!- xor__ has joined. 20:20:27 -!- xor has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:26:27 -!- xor_ has quit (Connection timed out). 20:45:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:54:47 -!- importantshock has joined. 20:56:47 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:59:18 -!- xor has joined. 21:00:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:04:39 -!- importantshock_ has joined. 21:06:19 What an important shock that was. 21:11:11 -!- xor__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:20:45 -!- SunJazz has joined. 21:27:37 -!- SunJazz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]"). 21:28:51 -!- importantshock_ has quit. 21:28:52 -!- importantshock has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:32:14 -!- Figs has joined. 21:44:36 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:03:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:13:45 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 22:29:26 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:47:32 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:02:12 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:26:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:27:02 Hi all 23:27:11 olleh 23:27:20 Aloh. 23:27:54 * Sgeo wonders if he can make 0x00 0x00 0x00 be "print NUL" instead of 0x00 0x00 23:28:14 * Sgeo is thinking of removing the whole domain switching thing 23:28:24 g'luck 23:28:32 I'm going to disappear for a while 23:28:37 Isn't domain switching the main feature or something? 23:28:41 -!- Figs has left (?). 23:30:20 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:30:44 Instead of doing, to call function 0x02 in domain 0x01: [0x00 0x01 0x01] 0x00 0x02, you just do 0x00 0x01 0x02 23:31:11 * SimonRC has an idea... 23:31:15 SimonRC, hm? 23:31:29 go get a copy of, erm 23:31:38 * SimonRC fails to recal the doument name 23:31:47 "X.something" 23:31:59 OST, it is a crap idea 23:32:26 OST? 23:32:48 On second Thoughts 23:35:32 The question is, can I make "Print NUL" be function 0x00 in domain 0, or should I shift the PSOX-System domain to 1, and make a special psuedodomain for 0x00 0x00? 23:36:19 dilemma 23:36:25 maybe, you have a tree 23:36:52 most of the top level is the often-used stuff, butsome of the top-level is reserved for expanding inot lower levels 23:37:23 Reserve low bytes for commands, high bytes for other stuff? 23:37:52 maybe 23:38:03 erm, what? 23:38:51 7F and below is a plain old function. 80 and above is a domain thing. 23:39:12 ..why? 23:39:38 So you can introduce as many plain old functions as you like without intruding on domains, I guess. 23:39:49 (For some values of "as many as you like".) 23:39:54 well, you could then have 1-byte codes for things like "print NULL", while keeping everything else ordered 23:40:01 * ihope_ nods 23:40:27 All of the special stuff will be in PSOX-System domain 23:40:35 in fact, reserve a 0x80-0xff byte in any position for subtrees 23:41:58 "256 functions will be enough for any domain designer" --said ala Bill Gates 23:42:05 *255 23:42:12 *256 23:43:23 257. 23:43:40 eh? 23:44:00 You changed it from 256 to 255 and back. I like 257 better. 23:44:50 You could either use two bytes for two commands or use a much more clever arithmetic-coding-like scheme. 23:50:08 My question simply is, would it be better to have 0x00 0x00 be a special case and have to shift everything around, or use 0x00 0x00 0x00 as "print NUL" 23:50:52 And I said, neither 23:52:12 Shifting around doesn't sound hard. 23:54:40 Shifting things around and leaving a pseudodomain feels inelegent to me :/ 23:56:05 Sgeo: that's why I suggested my idea 23:57:26 erm, I had some trouble understanding it.. 23:57:32 Could you please explain it? Sorry.. 23:58:03 first, one sends a 0, as already 23:58:37 next, a byte 0-127 is a command, and a byte 128-255 is a domain specifier. 23:59:02 within each domain, 0-127 will be commands, an 128-255 are subdomain specifiers 23:59:05 etc 23:59:52 this allows the common stuff to be short (e.g. printing NUL is still "0,0"), but there is plenty of room, and it is *organised* 2007-08-29: 00:00:07 Seems like 128-255 would be difficult for some languages to reach.. 00:00:20 well they won't need to do it often 00:00:28 make things odd andeven if you want instead 00:00:33 Then you need better compilers for those languages :-P 00:01:13 odd and even is a trivial bit-rearrangement in my idea 00:01:23 * of my idea 00:03:20 but..but..but.. 00:04:39 * Sgeo doesn't particularly like the idea of top-level commands 00:04:42 almost everything you would want is within reach of 30 characters of BF. 00:04:50 Sgeo: you don't need many 00:04:55 maybe just the meta stuff 00:05:14 But under my system, the meta stuff is all in domain 0 00:05:38 Incidentally, where would custom domains go? 00:06:21 you reserve some of your domains for custom domains 00:06:34 I mean, they go *under* them 00:06:56 since my scheme is recursive 00:09:35 hmm... maybe instead of a numbering for subdomains, the domain designer can designate what would have been a function as a tree 00:10:09 So that the specs for, e.g. domain 2 would state that 0x02 under domain2 leads to more functions.. 00:10:15 ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (self) (lambda (f) (f (lambda args (apply ((self self) f) args)))))) 00:10:35 Sgeo: maybe 00:10:52 that is a bit messy to decode... 00:11:05 actually, maybe not 00:22:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 00:30:50 -!- xor____ has joined. 00:31:16 -!- xor____ has quit (Client Quit). 00:31:33 -!- xor has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:31:39 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:33:51 Would having 0x00 0x00 0x00 be print NUL really be that bad? 00:34:10 dunno 00:34:18 if you didn;t doubt you would not haveasked 00:37:31 if you hadn't asked you would not have doubted 00:37:41 and causality be damned 00:43:33 Opinions: Is it ok to have Print NUL be 0x00 0x00 0x00? 00:44:10 Sure, as long as you don't intend on doing it a lot. 00:44:39 * SimonRC has an idea.... 00:44:49 it is brilliant! 00:45:11 you make 0x00 be the domain containing character printing functions... 00:45:34 if you want to print out character foo safely, the 0,0,foo is guaranteed to work 00:45:57 to avoid breaking cat and the likes 00:46:08 um 00:46:13 * Sgeo was going to write some BF code to always safely print a character 00:46:23 to allow you to make and unbreakable cat and the likes 00:46:32 Sgeo: that works too... 00:46:40 I like Simon's idea, though. 00:50:34 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:59:11 Hi ehird` 00:59:14 hi 01:00:08 hm, 0,0,0 as print NUL, 0,0,0,N as safe-print N? 01:00:12 erm 01:00:17 hm, 0,0,0 as print NUL, 0,0,1,N as safe-print N? 01:00:26 are you STILL working on that thing 01:00:29 :p 01:01:18 Or maybe the safe-print will be in another domain 01:01:30 I was planning a domain for things like printing as decimal.. 01:02:10 * Sgeo pokes SimonRC and pikhq 01:02:30 Hmm. 01:02:46 Domain 0 for various output functions. 01:03:10 -!- ehird` has quit. 01:03:51 How about domain 2 for output functions 01:03:56 domain0 should be system 01:05:02 hmm 01:25:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:26:03 goodnight... 01:26:18 Goodnight Tritonio 02:04:06 * SimonRC goes to bed 02:15:13 -!- RifR has joined. 02:35:35 Hi RifR 02:37:32 Hey 02:37:37 How ya doing 02:37:49 Good, working on PSOX 02:37:50 You? 02:38:01 Working on my forums 02:38:02 Bored 02:38:08 Hot as hell 02:42:09 Reading the "Joke Language" list 02:42:11 which is awesome 02:45:23 Hmm, we need more people whose names consist of at least one capital letter, then at least one small letter, then at least one capital letter. 02:45:45 Which I really ought to say as "more people whose names match /[A-Z]+[a-z]+[A-Z]+/". 02:46:05 I see GregorR, RifR, SimonRC. 02:46:10 lol 02:46:16 I like those. :-) 02:46:45 My handle is usually RifRaf, and I happened to notice someone else here goes by the same handle... which I have never seen since the early 90s when some warez courier was using it 02:47:24 Occasionally I'll find a website where "ihope" is taken. 02:47:29 They're all big ones, though. 02:50:15 ihope_ xor ihope 02:50:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to UtF03nmaDnWhnPm9. 02:51:41 my nick includes 96 random bits! 02:52:20 It's clearly just an obfuscation of "you wanna dun wit me". 02:52:30 What that means is beyond me. 02:55:10 -!- UtF03nmaDnWhnPm9 has changed nick to KhuUAwA7726av40w. 02:55:17 Haha 02:55:23 i'm transmitting secret messages to my field agents! 02:55:48 You should just use Fish ;) 02:57:13 -!- KhuUAwA7726av40w has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:57:20 they have their 192 bit key now 02:58:08 Fish? 02:58:25 It's a IRC encryption tool 02:58:52 He should just encode stuff in the lengths of his sentences. 02:59:04 Even number of letters = 0, odd number = 1. 03:00:09 that would be less obvious 03:00:49 Oh, you want to be obvious. 03:00:53 hehe 03:01:03 Who are these "field agents?" 03:01:04 Well, WHY don't you just use PLAINTEXT? 03:01:32 i meant that would be less obvious in a good way 03:03:45 that's a good idea actually 03:04:53 you might want to pay attention to my next few messages 03:05:40 actually...no, i'm to lazy 03:05:42 Okay. 03:05:50 haha 03:06:06 * pikhq has yet to find someone with the nickname of pikhq. . . 03:06:14 I'll point you at this video, then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVraVgzC9U 03:06:28 That's for being lazy, you big lazy-head! 03:06:28 Also, I propose that we use rot26 03:06:49 I propose that we call that cipher by its canonical name, rot0. 03:07:11 Bach? 03:07:13 what a nerd 03:07:15 :-P 03:07:37 Listen to smalin's version. It's pretty good. 03:08:01 and why are the keys on that organ moving by themselves? 03:08:09 They're supposed to, I guess. 03:08:24 ...aren't they? 03:09:15 bsmntbombdood: No, no, no. . . 03:09:23 GregorR? What a nerd. 03:09:58 http://youtube.com/watch?v=uTCQSk2l8bc 03:10:43 the revolution will not make your teeth whiter 03:11:02 Pff, a video that's not Toccata and Fugue in D minor. 03:14:05 Pft, the revolution will kill the TV. 03:14:09 blech 03:14:24 i have to write a letter to a pencil company telling them how great their pencils are 03:14:26 We, the GNU People, are the revolution. 03:14:33 bsmntbombdood: WTF?!? 03:14:47 Odd thing to have to do. 03:14:48 i hate english class 03:14:58 Oh. 03:15:03 Odd thing to have to do for English class. 03:15:11 * Sgeo goes to write the spec for the new version of PSOX 03:15:15 I hate your Englilsh teacher already. 03:15:21 What's that have to do with symbolism and messages? 03:16:10 bsmntbombdood: how would it be if you buried heavy doses of sarcasm about how anachronistic pencils are? 03:16:30 I've got a better idea. 03:16:36 Extremely subtle doses of sarcasm. 03:17:01 pencils are anachronistic? 03:17:11 Write to them asking how they feel about destroying forests in the name of anachronism and nostalgia. 03:17:26 mechanical pencil 03:17:34 What's wrong with destroying forests? 03:18:23 * pikhq takes a picture of his hippy self 03:18:32 ;p 03:18:49 let's see it 03:19:10 I was kinda kidding; don't exactly have a digital camera handy. 03:20:31 fail 03:21:42 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/foo.jpg 03:21:46 me me meee! 03:22:19 You need a beard & long hair. 03:22:47 i know 03:22:52 long hair not so much though 03:25:22 * Sgeo pokes the new http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 03:26:21 * Sgeo pokes pikhq and SimonRC 03:26:29 Sgeo: what do you do if you want to output lots of NUL? 03:26:47 Do lots of 0x00 0x00 0x00.. 03:27:02 That's a third as efficient as it could be. 03:27:06 (As if.) 03:27:18 Well, depend. 03:27:21 ...s. 03:27:48 The idea is "sane API", not "world's most efficient one". 03:27:59 NUL as an escape, to me, is sane. 03:28:51 Allowing the escape to be set isn't that hard, is it> 03:30:24 ..I guess not.. 03:30:45 other than needing to change the documentation a bit, ofc 03:30:59 But is there real demand for it? 03:32:21 No :-P 03:34:58 lol http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/~pete/beard.html 03:37:07 "It is quite possible that I had only thought I felt warmer. I suggest that a better test would be to shave half a person's beard off, but not tell them which half." http://mudhead.uottawa.ca/~pete/beard.html 03:37:12 Indeed, I'm sure that'll work wonders. 03:37:39 he ruined his nice beard 03:37:50 darn you beat me to it 03:40:44 -!- importantshock_ has joined. 03:40:47 i am not sure i believe that 6 weeks after picture... 03:43:53 -!- importantshock_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:55:40 main()<% printf((char<::>)<%'C',' ','i','s',' ','i','n','s','a','n','e','??/n',0%>);%> 03:57:20 trigraphs? 03:57:23 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 03:57:26 And digraphs. 03:57:45 Combined with using an array literal format for a C string. 04:06:54 * Sgeo works on the specs for Domain 0x02 04:08:55 * Sgeo suddenly realizes that his longnum format has no negative number support 04:09:58 natural numbers ftw 04:10:25 * Sgeo adds in a quick&cheap way to support negative numbers 04:10:35 "The indicator 0x02 can only be used as the first indicator, and means that a data byte follows, and the number is negative." 04:16:36 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txthttp://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt updated 04:16:38 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 04:16:45 erm 04:18:14 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt updated! http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-io-utils.txt added! 04:18:17 * Sgeo pokes pikhq 04:21:13 plz for puts newlines cuz bad interps kthx 04:28:19 Done 04:28:43 Well, that was helpful, but not what I meant at all : 04:28:49 :P 04:29:26 ..oh 04:29:32 lol 04:29:58 Couldn't you just use 10 to print a newline? 04:30:18 I mean, all requests and responses should end with an ignored newline. 04:30:42 Since most interpreters based on C will find they have buffered stdin/stdout. 04:30:50 Buffered to lines that is 04:30:52 * pikhq gets t3h uberbored, looks through #esoteric logs 04:31:15 * GregorR takes pikhq's uberbored and turns it into ... AN UBERBOARD 04:31:50 not an uberbeard? 04:32:19 buffered stdout 04:32:20 ? 04:33:10 Sgeo: int main() { int i; printf("Oh noes!"); for (i = 0; i <= 100000000; i++) {} printf("\n"); return 0; } 04:33:21 Sgeo: It won't print that "Oh noes!" until after the wait. 04:33:28 Sgeo: Because it's buffered on newlines. 04:35:34 * Sgeo doesn't know how to fix that 04:35:50 Simple: Require ignored newlines on all your commands. 04:35:57 (And responses) 04:36:23 * pikhq searches for his first entrance to #esoteric 04:36:27 It's easy to fix it in the interpreter, but probably more interpreters for esoteric languages are broken than not. 04:37:56 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.07.18 Gots it. (well, fine. First words, not first entrance.) 04:38:42 Are there interpreters that require Windows newlines? 04:38:55 * lament wonders what is the first thing in the logs 04:39:51 Sgeo: IIRC, every C on Windows I've heard of will flush on \n anyway. 04:40:13 Sgeo: Especially since most treat that as a UNIX newline in output anyway :) 04:40:49 oh wow, the channel was... pretty quiet back then :) 04:41:21 Still is on some days. 04:41:54 16:57:05 --- log: started esoteric/03.01.17 04:41:54 16:57:05 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #esoteric 04:41:54 16:57:05 --- topic: 'Om this channel is not dead hum! Om this channel is not dead hum! Om this channel is not dead hum!' 04:42:01 hehehe 04:46:18 SamB and exarkun used to come here... 04:47:07 SamB on #haskell? 04:47:39 yeah 04:47:50 except he was on #python backt hen 04:48:15 -!- RifR has quit. 04:53:54 more fish plox 04:55:07 G'night all 04:55:17 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:59:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:00:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:02:09 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:02:52 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 05:12:21 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:12:37 -!- sorear has joined. 05:25:04 -!- naringas has joined. 05:36:09 -!- naringas has quit. 05:38:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:44:22 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:49:05 Allow me to introduce. . . PEBBLE. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.09.03 :p 05:53:22 do not put the baby 05:57:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 06:01:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:38:55 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:39:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:40:41 -!- Arrogant has joined. 07:04:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 07:46:20 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 07:55:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:22:48 -!- sorear has quit ("zzz"). 09:19:04 -!- kwertii has quit. 09:23:41 -!- Naranek has left (?). 10:10:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:11:47 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:58:38 -!- jix_ has joined. 12:56:35 -!- Figs has joined. 12:56:39 yowza 12:56:52 brainfuck interpreters are a lot simpler than I was making them 12:56:53 :P 12:57:25 I feel like an idiot 12:57:56 still, at 44 lines, I've made it a bit bloated 12:58:01 I can do better 13:08:02 what's the fastest way to left-shift by 9999 in brainfuck? 13:09:40 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:09:50 hi RedDak 13:09:57 any idea how to leftshift by 9999 in brainfuck? 13:10:06 (like < * 9999) 13:10:19 without actually typing that o.o 13:20:57 If you have "walking" facilities available (and you should) you can use those. 13:21:08 walking? 13:21:45 it's very plain brainfuck 13:21:49 since I wrote it myself 13:22:01 You put gaps in-between your data, then use these to keep track of where you are on the tape 13:22:09 or something like that 13:22:09 I just wanted to exploit something peculiar to my implimentation so I could write a quine :P 13:23:43 basically the input to the program is 9999 bytes away from the actual memory :P 13:23:54 so I could (in theory) have self-rewriting brainfuck 13:24:21 just for fun 13:24:35 it'd be easier I guess if I'd put it the other way around 13:25:30 not sure about that though 13:26:23 char input[9999*(2+sizeof(char*))],*index_=input,*bfptr=index_+9999, 13:26:23 **stack=(char**)(input+2*9999); <- is this portable? 13:26:47 I'd think it should be 13:29:05 char input[9999*(2+sizeof(char*))],*bfptr=index+9999,**stack=&(input+2*9999); 13:29:33 Hrm. 13:29:35 No. 13:29:42 I'm reinterpreting the memory 13:29:54 char input[9999*(2+sizeof(char*))],*bfptr=&index[9999],**stack=&&input[2*9999]; 13:37:55 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:38:13 -!- jix__ has joined. 13:55:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:59:53 * SimonRC goes shopping 14:57:01 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:00:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:03:44 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 15:18:32 yay 15:18:45 I just wrote a brainfuck program that modified itself :P 15:19:16 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:19:21 not portable, ohhh so not portable :D 15:19:25 hi ehird` 15:19:43 I just wrote a bf program that modifies itself because of the way my buffers line up :P 15:20:07 it's not very pretty though :'( 15:21:34 Figs: hi 15:22:18 I should go to bed 15:22:19 it's 7 am 15:22:20 :P 15:25:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:30:54 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 15:31:37 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:46:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:46:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:00:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:01:43 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 16:08:03 -!- ehird`_ has quit. 16:11:25 -!- calamari has joined. 16:21:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 16:25:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:27:36 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 16:29:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:43:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:44:54 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:53:58 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:02:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Success). 18:35:56 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:36:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:39:46 sgiooubg? 18:40:33 interesting 18:40:47 if my fingers are on the wrong keys and i don't know it, i type wrong 18:41:04 but if i purposely put my fingers on the wrong keys, they correct themselves 18:41:51 ometresting 18:41:52 :DD 18:41:58 that was pretty cool 18:42:19 omyrtrsting 18:42:49 they move on the right keys after a few presses even if i'm not looking at the screen 18:43:55 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 18:46:56 Gelklo wrodl 18:46:58 hmm 18:47:07 AGekkoiwm owrld# 18:47:14 Hello, world 18:47:16 it's true 18:47:34 i can't make myself type on the wrong keys 18:47:43 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:51:25 gkekim wirikd# 18:53:46 oh damn 18:53:55 what 18:54:09 i just listened to the miss south carolina girl 18:55:13 our education maps need to help US americans with south africa and the iraq?!?!?!! 18:57:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww 18:58:46 not everyone has maps 19:01:21 haha my gf is like that 19:01:54 you can stand to be around someone like that? 19:02:04 she must be reeaaaaaally good in bed 19:02:29 bsmntbombdood: oh my god i puked up retardsauce 19:02:31 :DD 19:02:37 i think that video is why 19:02:42 ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT 19:02:49 all the idiocy in the world building up... and then it just had to come out. 19:03:26 bsmntbombdood: she's not really like that, but that would be a fun gf 19:03:40 it would? 19:03:41 i could play with an idiot all day long 19:03:44 sure 19:03:56 penis goes where? 19:04:08 i would laugh a lot though, so i'm pretty sure she couldn't stand me. 19:12:45 http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2003/Everything-Is-Illegal1esp03.htm 19:13:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcHdIvKQBU&NR=1 <<< i was thinking "comma" :) 19:13:35 "introduce" oh 19:14:11 i'm pretty sure i've developed some sort of dyslexia 19:14:44 how late can you get that? 19:14:56 and can you catch it from a friend? 19:16:41 that's wouldn't exactly be "dyslexia", "stupedia"? 19:17:54 -!- ihope_ has joined. 19:19:16 s/that's/that 19:28:53 a colon isn't commonly used to introduce a list of items 19:33:46 i don't think that either, but more often than a comma :) 19:35:24 "star wars is based on a true story. true or false" "true." 19:37:04 "where was the berlin wall?" "ummmm...israel?" 19:37:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&mode=related&search= 19:40:49 you could make a video like that anywhere though 19:42:14 yeah, that'd be fun 19:42:24 i might make a finnish one someday 19:42:31 pretty stupid ppl here too 19:43:16 i might actually believe a vid like that was true if i had made it myself 19:44:49 bsmntbombdood: ..."true"?! 19:44:57 bsmntbombdood: is it a faked video or something i haven't watched it 19:45:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AbXR4fbhOQ&NR=1 <<< i wouldn't have known what a "surge protector" is 19:45:52 i would've gotten that right of course, still :P 19:46:00 unexpected surges of water 19:46:13 ehird`: it looks real 19:47:47 so great watching ppl be stupid, i don't understand how everyone finds it so disgusting 19:47:57 oklopol: that was a terrible question 19:48:10 that surge thing? 19:48:16 "what is... the united kingdom" 19:48:35 yeah 19:49:01 hmm... why? 19:50:00 "surge protector" could be anything 19:50:20 COFFEE IS A DRINK 19:50:37 a surge protector protects from surges, that's all you can say without more information 19:51:14 well, natural language is often like that, but do many people buy anything but ones for electric surges? 19:51:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_mkwB9ayK4 <<< i don't know what currency ireland uses :\ 19:51:40 i could make a vid like that from myself 19:57:55 guess that was enough for one day 20:00:36 an irc room/where messages are haiku/yes, interesting 20:00:50 #haiku-irc! 20:01:28 no 20:01:36 yes 20:01:36 :p 20:02:14 i cannot say anything on that channel. 20:02:27 why not? 20:02:34 i don't know haiku 20:02:40 5/7/5 syllables 20:03:37 syllables, okay/in haiku, five and then/seven, indeed 20:04:35 haiku sounds so finnish it stands out from your texts as a big wtf 20:05:09 because i have a hard time interpreting a sentence with multiple languages in it 20:29:42 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:37:10 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:11:34 oklopol: What's read(SELECT * FROM statements WHERE languages > 1).difficulty? 21:13:55 sql is stupid 21:15:44 embedding a language, as a string, into another language? wtf? 21:16:41 bsmntbombdood: lightweight sql-eliminators ftw 21:17:33 aka database abstraction layers 21:17:51 flat files ftw 21:17:57 flat files ftl 21:18:00 scalability ftw 21:18:27 GregorR: that's a personal weirdity of mine 21:18:41 select("statements", where=[x|x.languages > 1]) 21:18:44 where [] is lambda 21:18:45 or, 21:19:22 select("statements", where=cond("languages > 1")) 21:19:24 or similar 21:20:55 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:24:55 How nice of Google to put all their tech talks online. 21:25:40 heh: "three-napkins protocol" 21:25:40 when will you know if you've got the job? 21:26:10 oh, ah, yeah 21:26:22 they said to try re-applying in 6monthd 21:26:30 aaah 21:26:37 what will be different then? 21:26:45 dunno 21:26:48 I have other good-looking offers though 21:26:58 one interview on Friday 21:30:00 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:30:01 at first i thought you're about to interview a bunch of hot candidates 21:30:14 heh 21:31:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:40:16 what's tech talk? 21:40:22 in that context 21:41:48 a Google Tech Talk 21:42:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:42:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:42:32 !! 21:42:36 Huh? 21:42:38 !!! 21:42:42 Huh? 21:42:46 like, that is so freaky 21:43:20 SimonRC: how old are you? 21:43:30 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:43:33 pikhq and oerjan joined at the same second 21:43:41 yeah, that was scary 21:43:52 boo! 21:43:55 but i'm pretty sure it was planned 21:43:59 nope 21:44:05 oerjan and pikhq: you're not fooling anyone 21:44:07 * SimonRC forgets which people are close IRL 21:44:29 i don't think pikhq is on the same continent as me 21:45:11 pikhq is american, oerjan is norwegian 21:45:16 SimonRC is... american too (?) 21:45:33 tokigun_ is corean? 21:45:37 nope british 21:45:40 "209-248-125-179.falconbroadband.net" 21:45:44 lament is canadian? 21:45:51 look at my domain 21:45:53 oh, pikhq is british? 21:45:56 russian-canadian 21:45:57 ah you are 21:46:02 oops 21:46:06 i'm mexican! 21:46:08 pikhq = "209-248-125-179.falconbroadband.net" 21:46:10 SimonRC: i just guessed 21:46:12 you i mean 21:46:21 * SimonRC is in .ac.uk 21:46:23 lament: too late to fool me with that 21:46:36 unless you have fooled me a lot before 21:46:44 falconbroadband.net <<< doesn't really tell me the country :\ 21:46:52 i'm mexican starting tomorrow 21:47:02 for a brief while :) 21:47:06 oklopol: you might get a hint by visiting their website, perhaps 21:47:27 ni siquiera hablo ingles 21:47:53 yes... i could also read the whole esoteric logs or trick cia into hacking his home country for me 21:47:53 nunca lo sabia 21:48:09 i mean, who has the time to open a browser these days 21:48:10 not me 21:48:20 "Falcon Broadband, Inc. was started in 2003 in Colorado Springs, CO. We are a locally owned and operated company." 21:48:27 <--- blurb 21:48:51 oklopol: i think there may be a list of which ip's are in which country 21:49:02 oklopol: yes 21:49:12 there are a few websites that do that 21:49:23 also, the ietf provide lists on their website 21:49:54 they list the middlemen they give address ranges to, and include a web address where you can ask the middle-men for the details 21:50:01 so i was right about everyone except pikhq? 21:50:07 ... 21:50:09 ASgoijregoijesg 21:50:16 so i was right about everyone except SimonRC? 21:50:20 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:50:28 " SimonRC is... american too (?)" <--- yup, ish 21:50:29 ehird` is also american? 21:50:35 I mean, yup, you got it wrong 21:50:45 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 21:50:53 eres gringo 21:50:59 oklopol: what part of ".co.uk" did you not understand 21:51:11 "21:49:14 -!- ehird` [n=ehird@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #esoteric" 21:51:55 i understand it, i don't read it though 21:53:43 he only understands it when spoken aloud! 21:53:56 i haven't had a client that shows host @ join/quit, so haven't learned to look at that yet... 21:54:08 whoissing is like googling, who has the time? 21:54:23 oerjan: precisely 21:55:11 which client do you use? 21:55:16 i use mirc now 21:55:42 ouch 21:55:42 lament is too lazy to do /ctcp oklopol VERSION 21:56:06 of course, i'm mexican 21:56:13 lament: best client i've seen yet, you can point me towards a better one, if you know any 21:56:16 for win/unix 21:56:22 ah yes. 21:56:29 cool 21:56:33 i wanna be a mexican too :\ 21:56:40 hey, midnight @ 4 minutes 21:56:45 i could be mexican tomorrow? 21:57:47 umm... okloXoY, please fill in those two to be mexican 21:58:27 oklopotl? 21:58:29 i thought oklomex first, but i just can't be non-oCCoCoC 21:58:35 potl? 21:58:53 i'm a bit slow 21:58:54 mexican words sometimes contain tl 21:59:17 popocatepetl and such 21:59:44 hmm... i was thinking more like a 3-letter word CoC that is something stereotypically mexican :) 22:00:02 i'm pretty sure there's a lot of options... 22:00:21 * oerjan really feels unqualified for that question 22:01:42 -!- oklopol has changed nick to okloMeX. 22:01:44 o 22:01:47 :D 22:02:03 i don't know why that X is capitalized, but i kinda like it 22:02:22 -!- okloMeX has changed nick to okloMex. 22:02:44 i think this is the extent of my mexicanness for today 22:03:23 lament: better clients have you to mention? 22:03:55 personally i use irssi 22:04:03 but it probably doesn't play with windows very well 22:04:19 it does, and i also use unix 22:04:27 but i don't like it at all 22:04:47 prolly because i'm too lazy to learn all the commands 22:05:06 you want something point and click? 22:05:10 does it have a view where i don't have to remember which channels are behind which numbers? 22:05:11 okloTeX? 22:05:17 no, but i want something look and see. 22:05:35 SimonRC: also has "e", i need "o" for it to be better than this... 22:05:39 -!- okloMex has changed nick to okloTeX. 22:05:43 okloTeX: yes 22:05:49 guess variation is nice though 22:05:55 okloTeX: get the chanact.pl script 22:05:55 lament: didn't know 22:06:16 i use irssi, but it could have done with a modern help system 22:06:18 Oklo as in the nuclear reactors? 22:06:22 i don't see why people put mirc down though, there's nothing wrong with it imo 22:06:47 SimonRC: too long a story 22:07:09 try me 22:07:40 after oklopol mentioned it, i believe he chose the name because of the keyboard layout 22:07:43 Oklopol is a conworld of me and a few friend's.... that was pretty long, ay? 22:07:56 i didn't, that was an accident actually 22:08:13 i hate stuff where my hands aren't balanced 22:08:32 so something liek lskdjf would'we been nicer actually 22:09:57 conworlds fte 22:10:00 *ftw 22:10:14 are you on the ZBB? 22:10:34 or maybe conworlds.info (plug plug) 22:10:42 actually the story of the actual word "oklopol" is a lot longer, but it's not very interesting 22:10:55 umm... i'm not really anywhere :< 22:11:03 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:11:03 is this conworld online? 22:11:16 somewhat, in finnish form. 22:11:54 "okloglok"? 22:12:04 the actual world in detail doesn't exist in written form really 22:12:14 just some stories about it 22:12:18 ah, ok 22:12:33 wherefrom got you the term "conworld"? 22:12:45 from you, most likely :) 22:13:01 verrrry verrry long ago 22:13:14 when you first mentioned these... things 22:13:21 the ones you're obsessed with 22:13:53 the superclever dragon-like creatures whose name i think starts with a K 22:14:02 kigdatsi 22:14:10 exactly 22:14:17 * oerjan is just showing off his memory abilities 22:14:24 :P 22:15:01 i have a pretty amazing memory when it comes to stuff i actually memorize, i just don't do that automatically for pretty much anything 22:15:34 "amazing", most people are amazed by 10 digits of pi :P 22:16:06 * oerjan knows 15, though he memorized them 22:16:10 3.1415926535898 erm 22:16:27 2.718281828459045 22:16:35 rounding seems wrong when talking about memorizing digits... 22:16:48 yeah 22:17:08 i didn't even remember the *first* digits of e before i actually memorized 2.71 22:17:11 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 22:17:11 *digit 22:17:17 yeah 22:17:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:17:32 i had no idea it started with "2" even though i'd used it about 163 times 22:17:57 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 <<< ? 22:18:10 2^64 22:18:14 ah 22:18:32 I can remember that a round peg fits into a square hole better than the other way round up until approx dimension 5.16 22:18:57 i've been thinking of starting memorizing stuff as a hobby, i memorize pretty fast, i just never do it :| 22:18:57 I can remember skew's number: 10^10^10^34 22:19:07 like capitals, that's a one night job 22:19:14 but i've just never done it 22:19:15 I know the Elements Song 22:19:20 SimonRC: what happens after 5.16 22:19:35 capitals are insufficiently geeky 22:19:46 ehird`: it's the other way round 22:20:17 SimonRC: yeah. but why 22:20:23 dunno 22:20:31 i don't care about geeky really, would just be nice to train the brain 22:20:48 dunno how helpful that is 22:20:48 but yeah, it's *good* if it's geeky 22:20:57 okloTeX: are you like a new-age LaTeX replacement 22:21:06 I find obsession and reciting to be helpful 22:21:22 SimonRC: i can't visualize dimensions >3 ;/ 22:21:37 I cn;t either 22:22:06 i like memorizing just by reading, the visual peg system just makes it too easy... 22:22:15 what is that? 22:22:26 i can visualize extra dimensions by tacking attributes on points in 3d 22:22:28 ie color 22:22:35 that one book i was reading... 22:22:39 but then i can't "rotate" a visualized object 22:22:40 i can find the name 22:22:44 between the dimensions ;( 22:22:47 about training the memory 22:22:52 I can't rotate 4d either 22:23:54 i'm pretty sure you can learn to visualize 4d 22:23:59 sure 22:24:22 Is there much to training memory other than practice and clever techniques? 22:24:34 well 22:25:00 using the visual association technique, at least i could memorize 50 objects in order on second try 22:25:07 or was it 30.. 22:25:15 50 is more impressive, let's go with that. 22:25:21 (may have even been 20...) 22:25:25 easy to visualize 4d by looking at the 3d projection 22:25:46 I recall a memorisation question in some quiz; I boosted my score by pairing up the objects to be memorised 22:25:47 or morphing over time 22:25:55 SimonRC: that's the idea 22:26:40 when you get good at it, you can memorize a deck of cards in 10 minutes 22:26:55 okloTeX: better: memorising abcdefgh... by doing (a,b) (b,c) (c,d) (d,e) (... 22:27:00 that's what the book said was how fast an average guy does it with the technique 22:27:04 okloTeX: not 1 minute? 22:27:30 there are some card-shuffling devices that are vulnerable to memorising the preceding order 22:27:35 SimonRC: won't that break if a letter is repeated? 22:27:42 eh... no, but i think 10 minutes is good for a stunt you learn in one night... 22:27:42 okloTeX: memorize a solitaire key! 22:27:46 oerjan: we are memorising a SET 22:28:04 oerjan: it doesn't, the human memory also has it's own tricks... 22:28:22 e.g. randomly dealing onto the top and bottom of 10 piles will create 20 runs 22:28:40 if there are multiple occurrances, you remember them as exceptions, usually better than the rest 22:28:44 the later ones are semi-predictable if ou konw the original orer of the cards and the cards already passed 22:28:46 i hope the brain is superturing 22:28:48 that would be cool 22:28:53 "THIS THOUGHT PROCESS WILL ALWAYS HALT!" 22:29:03 unless there are many clashes, in which case just change your system a bit 22:29:03 ehird`: it isn't supertring 22:29:12 SimonRC: fuck :( 22:29:18 SimonRC: WHY I WANT IT TO BE. 22:29:24 actually, the brain isn;t a proof system 22:30:25 i never read the book through or actually learned the techniques well... wish i did that some day... 22:30:50 okloTeX: and to think that my gut churned with envy when you started talking about memorisation 22:30:53 How To Develop A Super-Power Memory By Harry Lorayne-Book.pdf 22:31:02 umm 22:31:11 "Harry Lorayne-Book.pdf" is an unusual name 22:31:23 heh 22:31:46 I do suffer form terrible envy sometimes. 22:31:50 *from 22:31:59 me too, luckily i'm usually the best in any group :) 22:32:02 not here 22:32:06 but i'll kill you all soon. 22:32:11 :P 22:32:13 now pizza -> 22:32:19 my brain IS turing complete damnit 22:32:20 because i said so 22:33:26 PLZ PROVE THAT KTHX 22:34:02 -!- Figs has joined. 22:34:08 ok 22:34:18 This thought process will always halt: BOIOIOIOOING 22:34:22 watching kyle xz actually was what made me interested in that book again 22:34:58 -!- Figs has left (?). 22:38:16 okloTeX: no, I bet I suffer from worst envy than you 22:38:31 oh? 22:38:33 please tell me 22:38:43 I sometimes feel slightly sick from them 22:38:47 just occasionally 22:38:57 heh 22:39:12 my envy is superturing 22:40:11 i often have an unbelievable feeling of failior, envy doesn't really get me down 22:40:41 Q: What is the different between a user and woman? / A: When a user says "yes" they mean "no". 22:40:51 I dispair at my on laziness 22:40:52 i mean, i hallusinate a bit sometimes etc. 22:40:58 ! 22:41:02 Huh? 22:41:17 ehird`: I can trivially prove that your brain is not TC. Every volume has a maximum data density. Your brain has a volume. Therefore, your brain has a maximum amount of data it can store. QED. 22:41:18 you fail so badly that you hallucinate?! 22:41:41 i get a strong feeling of self-hatred and i fall into trance of some sort 22:41:47 i get that for other things as well 22:41:55 sometimes when i'm programming intensely too 22:41:59 but then i just love it 22:41:59 Don't Do That 22:42:11 are they nice hallucinations? 22:42:24 you know, writing a program, look up and can't really even see the room 22:42:31 everything else is hazy 22:42:45 not really like man-walk-in-room kind 22:42:54 GregorR: actaully the storage limit is proportinal to surface area, ISTR, for a spherical shape. 22:42:55 i just get hazy vision, and voices in my head 22:43:00 the basic stuff 22:43:14 hmm 22:43:21 I don't get haxziness 22:43:24 GregorR: nothing says it can't expand if necessary. 22:43:25 I lose track of time though 22:43:30 umm... it's a bit hard to explain 22:43:47 like everything is moving a bit too fast 22:44:14 even stationary objects seem to be moving 22:44:24 and they have small gliders going around them 22:44:29 glider as in ca's 22:44:41 (I was going to say that :P ) 22:44:45 i haven't had that for a long time 22:44:47 heh 22:44:56 okloTeX: are you sure you weren't just taking illegal substances? :p 22:45:03 wish i did, i hate being sane 22:45:09 * SimonRC curses people with superior hacking powers to himself. 22:45:11 -) 22:45:12 :-) 22:45:12 ehird`: i've never gotten my hands on any 22:45:19 * GregorR curses people with eyes. 22:45:21 -( 22:45:49 SimonRC: i always escape that feeling with "i'm just 18" 22:45:56 won't work for long, though 22:46:10 18 is actually too much, i thought i'd be a genius by now :P 22:46:32 GregorR: er, you're blind? 22:46:36 okloTeX: You don't "become" a genius, genius is about intelligence, not knowledge. 22:46:39 oerjan: smiley joke 22:46:41 well, I have occasionally had a strange feeling when walking after a long computer session (esp. AoE2) where the world feels like a crystal-clear simulation. 22:46:44 * ehird` curses people with brains 22:46:47 and noses 22:46:48 GregorR: intelligence can be learned 22:46:49 and mouthes 22:46:50 22:46:55 ^ pretty dull smiley 22:47:12 okloTeX: "I'll be a genius when I'm 72!" 22:47:25 COLON MINUS OPENING-PARENTHESIS 22:47:33 COLON MINUS LIVER 22:47:35 (COBOL) 22:47:39 okloTeX: It's pretty well established that intelligence is just about constant. You can learn to get a higher IQ, but that's because any form of testing of intelligence is imperfect. 22:47:40 hehehe 22:47:46 COLON OBJECT BULLSHIT OBJECT LANGUAGE 22:48:18 There are XML-parsing libraries for COBOL. 22:48:40 I'm probably just bullshitting, but that's what I doooooooooooooo :) 22:48:51 SimonRC: That makes my brain hurt. 22:48:55 GregorR: i've heard that too 22:49:04 they work via callbacks 22:49:11 COBOL02 does objects. 22:49:20 there's a WEBAPP FRAMEWORK for cobol 22:49:36 but 1) i don't entirely believe it and 2) you can differentiate between whether something is knowledge or just plain cleverness 22:49:43 I have said it before and I say it again: COBOL is unsurpassed in the field of defining punched-card layouts. 22:49:56 SimonRC: it's an artform 22:50:04 like oerjan who seems to get everything, then when i'm at the point of bursting from admiring, he tells me that was from memory 22:50:14 : 22:50:17 i has a colon! 22:50:18 ; 22:50:29 ouch, my colon is semi :( 22:50:34 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:50:36 @ "hello ; you have done very well have a promotion" 22:50:42 ; "oh wow! what is it to?" 22:50:45 @ "colon" 22:50:47 : "YAY" 22:50:52 heh 22:51:00 s/from memory/something he read somewhere 22:51:40 OTOH, if a Haskell hacker got it into their heads to write a punched-card-layout-specifiying library, they would wipe the floor with the COBOL people. 22:51:51 this is interesting: 22:51:53 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3733345136856180693 22:52:33 okloTeX: perhaps cleverness is just being able to quickly recall the necessary bits you need... 22:52:53 and combine them 22:53:10 of course you need to have understood the original bits. 22:53:13 oerjan: exactly what i tried to say 22:53:45 cleverness = intelligence / recall delay :) 22:53:47 bsmntbombdood: yes, but those combining techniques can be learned as well 22:54:13 Paull Graham on intelligence: http://paulgraham.com/wisdom.html 22:54:18 GregorR: you need knowledge too 22:54:41 bsmntbombdood: Well, intelligence in any form is pretty well hindered without knowledge :) 22:55:52 By the way, 2 + 2 != 5. 22:56:04 It's actually -7. 22:56:13 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8 22:56:21 round all the numbers, 2 + 2 = 5 22:57:02 8| 22:57:06 |8 22:57:08 bsmntbombdood: you blow my mind! 22:57:30 ehird`: you and your modulus 11 arithmetic! 22:58:57 that was clever 23:00:53 Also, 42 is actually nin. 23:00:55 *nine 23:06:48 "Most of our educational traditions aim at wisdom." 23:06:49 wtf? 23:07:09 no one said they had _good_ aim :D 23:07:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:07:21 that shows that his definition is wrong 23:07:46 because traditional learning does focus on making the jack of all trades (wisdom, according to him) 23:14:23 pinggg 23:14:40 -!- ihope_ has joined. 23:16:17 spiong 23:19:03 bsmntbombdood: isn't that what he said? 23:19:15 what? 23:19:54 i don't understand your last four lines, you seem to contradict yourself. 23:21:54 he says traditional education promotes wisdom. i say traditional education promotes the jack of all trades. i say jack of all trades is not wise. his definition is wrong 23:24:34 i agree with his definition 23:25:26 what do you find wrong with it, and how would you change it? 23:25:27 a wise person knows what to do in moral matters, not academic ones 23:26:24 isn't that exactly what he addresses in the fourth paragraph? 23:27:28 he says the opposite in the fourth paragraph 23:28:51 "Some say wisdom and intelligence apply to different types of problems—wisdom to human problems and intelligence to abstract ones." 23:29:05 that's what you said. 23:29:12 and then he immediately explains why that isn't true. 23:31:00 "for example, the wisdom of the engineer who knows certain structures are less prone to failure than others." 23:31:05 that isn't taught in schools 23:31:25 G(^G)G <-- I wonder how big this is 23:31:28 (G = g_64) 23:32:32 bsmntbombdood: do you see no difference between "education promotes wisdom" and "every single aspect of wisdom is taught in schools"? 23:32:46 bsmntbombdood: hint: he says the first of those things, but not the second. 23:32:56 hmm 23:38:04 * SimonRC goes to bed. 2007-08-30: 00:06:23 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:28:26 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:15:16 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:03:31 -!- Sos`` has joined. 03:03:56 -!- Sos`` has left (?). 03:13:57 * pikhq returneth 03:15:09 where hast thou been, oh wretched knave? 03:15:28 School. 03:15:41 You know, the place that eats your soul away. 03:16:09 bsmntbombdood: Education promotes wisdom. Of course, schools rarely, if ever, promote education. 03:16:31 ay, there's the rub! 03:17:08 (Public schools do bullshit work in the name of education, and you learn in spite of it. Colleges say "Here's the information. Learn if you want, or blow several thousand if you want.") 03:19:07 *aye, even 03:24:15 * oerjan makes a note not to discuss school with anyone in it right after the end of summer break. 03:24:44 LMAO 03:25:31 :( 03:25:32 this, unfortunately, is the kind of information i _never_ remember. 03:25:49 at least i have only minimal school time this year 04:15:38 -!- calamari has joined. 04:29:45 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 04:32:56 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:37:22 -!- kwertii has quit. 07:06:58 -!- oerjan has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:08:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:25:14 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:26:56 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:30:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:35:42 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 08:52:25 -!- okloTeX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:16:19 -!- jix_ has joined. 10:35:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("night all"). 10:44:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:31:27 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:00:56 -!- ihope_ has joined. 13:17:31 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 13:30:36 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:40:31 -!- ehird`_ has quit. 14:01:51 -!- Figs has joined. 14:18:51 -!- Figs has left (?). 14:26:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:31:43 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:43:46 -!- jix_ has quit ("CommandQ"). 14:44:09 -!- jix_ has joined. 14:44:15 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 14:47:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:09:12 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:09:57 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 15:12:48 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:14:26 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 15:17:19 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:47:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:57:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:23:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:44:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:02:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Success). 18:00:47 -!- zeb has joined. 18:04:27 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 18:06:33 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:09:40 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 18:10:08 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:12:25 -!- jix_ has joined. 18:20:20 * zeb has never used IRC before 18:25:29 XD 18:26:12 (the silence deafens) 18:26:17 Indeed. 18:26:51 then again, this is quite an esoteric channel 18:27:09 ;) 18:30:32 yes 18:42:18 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:45:58 so I have this brainfuck variant... 18:46:27 just finished proving it was turing complete 18:47:12 how is it different? 18:47:19 no > or < 18:47:32 instead, there's a * command 18:47:41 it jumps to the nth cell 18:47:59 also, the values stored in cells are unbounded 18:48:06 neat 18:48:45 in theory, this could be faster than bf because it allows random access 18:49:06 so you could do things like heapsort 18:49:49 unfortunately, adding two numbers looks like this: 18:51:34 ,++*+*,+[+*[-]+*+*[-]*--]+*---. 18:56:52 ouch 18:57:13 very esoteric 18:57:35 Near as I can tell, it'd be impossible to leave something stored in a cell and then leave that cell. . . 18:57:38 well, you can translate from brainfuck directly into this 18:57:57 by starting with 256 +s, then a * 18:58:11 then replace > with [*]*+* 18:58:18 and < with [*]*-* 18:59:07 try hello world with those replacements 18:59:19 I want to see that :D 19:00:19 [*] makes me happy 19:01:00 except it could easily infinitely loop, no? 19:01:05 cell 1 has 2, cell 2 has 1 19:01:11 not if the values are less than 256 19:01:29 and cells 1-255 are empty 19:01:42 ah 19:02:31 zeb: make the values unsigned 19:02:37 yes that too 19:02:38 then -1 = first character of program, etc 19:02:47 wait no 19:02:50 you could make INSANE self-modifying code and loops with that 19:02:51 :D 19:02:52 doubly infinite tape 19:02:58 hrm 19:03:00 maybe 19:03:19 so, < and > wrap, but you can use * with negative numbers being program locations 19:03:25 and then, of course, a positive * to get back again 19:04:14 but, there is no > and < 19:04:22 err true 19:04:22 ok 19:04:23 so just 19:04:29 >0 * = jump in tape 19:04:40 <0 * = jump in program (reversed -1 = first, -2 = second, etc) 19:04:52 and, of course, you can modify the program as well as read it in realtime 19:04:59 its like self-modifying brainfuck but more crazy 19:05:16 but wouldn't that be... evil? 19:05:27 * SimonRC has dinner. 19:06:01 zeb: Yes. 19:06:52 You could make an infinite loop by going into your own sourcecode, going to the end, then appending the whole source code to it 19:06:54 Exponential quine! 19:06:57 CODE -> CODECODE 19:07:02 CODECODE -> CODECODECODECODE 19:07:07 CODECODECODECODE -> etc 19:07:10 err 19:07:10 not quine 19:07:11 loop 19:07:32 alright, someone wanted hello world? 19:07:40 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*[*]*+*+++++++++[[*]*-*++++++++[*]*+*-][*]*-*.[*]*+*+++++++[[*]*-*++++[*]*+*-][*]*-*+.+++++++..+++.[*]*+++*++++++++[[*]*-*++++[*]*+*-][*]*-*.[*]*+++*++++++++++[[*]*-*+++++++++[*]*+*-][*]*-*---.[*]*----*.+++.------.--------.[*]*++*+. 19:07:49 (you asked for it) 19:08:51 that could probably be shortened quite a bit, though 19:14:45 for the self modifying one... I just realized how evilly that could work 19:22:45 but then [-*+] creates an error 19:23:23 sorry, meant +[--*+] 19:24:52 argh 19:24:53 no 19:25:05 it should be +[---*+] 19:32:27 yeah, self-modifying evil is fun 19:32:36 quines, for instance, are /trivial/ :) 19:32:55 -[.-]? 19:33:04 so . is indirect? 19:33:09 er oops 19:33:18 it prints >? 19:33:22 -[*.**-] 19:33:38 no, it just prints 19:33:44 hm 19:33:46 .** 19:33:59 won't that go to the ascii value of the current peice of code? 19:34:00 well, characters are usually positive 19:34:05 ah, i get it 19:34:10 and yeah 19:34:12 that should work 19:34:49 but it doesn't wuit when it's supposed to 19:35:30 ? 19:35:49 once it passes the end of the program, what does it do? 19:38:18 ok ok I have another esolang 19:38:27 (it's a turing tarpit) 19:39:11 the gimmick this time is that it is only turing complete because of the comments 19:40:40 zeb: what do you mean what does it do? 19:41:52 -[*.**-] won't quit when it finishes outputting it's code. It'll keep running, and possibly raping children 19:42:30 that was a grammatical failure. I'm sorry 19:43:35 so make it: 19:43:41 hm 19:43:43 well 19:44:04 basically 19:44:07 after the * 19:44:10 OH! A DO-WHILE LOOP 19:44:18 if (not blah) { [-] } 19:44:21 or rather 19:44:29 if (blah) { jump stuff[-] } 19:45:04 *.**[-*.**] works! (assuming the cells other than the code are 0) 19:45:24 soory, stick a - in the front of that 19:47:16 have you implemented it yet :( 19:47:25 *:) 19:47:26 um not really 19:48:06 unless "write out what happens by hand" counts 19:49:34 plus, I don't see how the language should handle possibly missing [s and ]s 19:49:54 especially if it's self modifying 19:51:56 * Eidolos wants zebfuck macros 19:52:06 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:52:25 * zeb would rather call it brain* 19:52:29 We'll call it the Practical Esoteric Zebfuck-Based Language, Eh? 19:52:34 PEZBLE. 19:53:26 wait, how is it practical? 19:56:20 random access makes it practical :) 19:56:49 zeb: it should just error out 19:56:56 zeb: use some kind of stack+instruction-based check 19:57:18 so removing an ] will work fine until it reaches the end of file, probably 19:58:19 I dunno 19:59:11 any selfmodifying language *shouldn't* have the possibility of syntax errors 20:00:56 er 20:01:25 Then how, might I ask, does assembly get away with having just that? 20:01:46 well, it might, but it shouldn't 20:02:04 it... it just feels wrong 20:02:17 umm. 20:02:31 are there any self-modifying languages that don't have syntax errors? 20:02:34 the only language without syntax errors will invariably be a forthoid 20:02:41 forth can self-modify. i think 20:02:49 well 20:03:00 we could just remove [ and ] from our instruction set 20:03:03 no 20:03:12 maybe selfmodifyingness can save us? 20:03:22 maybe, but it's stupid 20:03:27 just let syntax errors happen when they happen 20:03:33 self-modifying is evil in the first place. 20:06:48 I guess I can live with that... but only as a temporary solution 20:07:07 how about this: 20:07:18 if a [ doesn't have a matching ], ignore it 20:07:29 same for ] 20:07:43 no syntax errors! 20:09:22 :/ 20:09:23 no 20:09:26 that will break a lot of hacks 20:10:26 ooh 20:11:29 basically, keep a stack of loops 20:11:33 do a check each instruction 20:11:43 if you get to the end of the file, and the stack isn't empty, error out 20:11:50 if you try to pop from the stack and it's empty, error out 20:11:57 simple, and allows lots of leeway 20:20:32 +*++++++[+**--- -----*[ -]+*--] *[**-*, ] ought to read a program and then execute it 20:21:32 maybe... it probably needs to be tweaked 20:23:23 that'll interfere 20:23:31 minus numbers won't be the program itself, for example, in it 20:23:36 a self-interpreter for this would be... hard 20:24:04 that's what the spaces are for 20:26:09 wait how will it interfere? the input gets entered after the end of the program 20:26:58 oh 20:27:00 then cool 20:27:17 so you can run a quine in it? 20:27:25 wouldn't requests to -1 go to the source code of that interpreter? 20:28:00 you want it to still work even with self-modifying input code?! 20:30:31 oh, another point about self-modifyingness: should the program be terminated by an EOF? 20:30:53 I say yes 20:32:08 ummmmmmm, what 20:32:11 there is no "EOF" 20:32:15 there is no EOF character 20:32:30 um -1 then 20:33:19 because otherwise the interpreter might go interpreting 0s on forever 20:40:30 no 20:40:35 interpret 0 = byebye 20:40:41 and you can't have -1 in a file.. 20:40:52 that works just as well 20:41:59 but now my program above no longer works :( 21:05:27 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:29:24 -!- pikhq has quit ("Rebooting for kernel update."). 21:34:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:40:27 hmm, I guess what I meant is that after the end of a source file, the next memory cell should contain -1 21:42:27 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:46:08 -!- kwertii has quit (Client Quit). 21:46:21 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:50:58 -!- jix_ has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:08:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:47:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:28:32 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:54:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 2007-08-31: 00:03:23 -!- zeb has quit ("+[]"). 00:24:52 -!- ihope_ has joined. 01:46:49 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit ("leaving"). 02:59:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:00:18 Hi all 03:00:36 Just poking my head in to say that I'm alive and well, but don't have the time nor energy to work on PSOX tonight.. 03:03:12 do my homework! 03:08:39 5 day weekend. . . T3h w00ts. 03:23:44 5?!?!?! 03:23:48 i only get 3 :) 03:23:50 er, :( 03:24:09 although i do get to go draining tommorow 03:24:37 draining? 03:25:05 exploring storm drains 04:19:28 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 05:34:27 -!- kwertii has quit. 05:53:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:53:19 -!- pikhq has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:53:21 -!- SimonRC has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:53:21 -!- cmeme has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:53:21 -!- Overand has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:53:21 -!- lament has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:54:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:58:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:58:25 -!- SimonRC has joined. 05:58:25 -!- cmeme has joined. 05:58:25 -!- Overand has joined. 05:58:25 -!- lament has joined. 06:08:32 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:27:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:10:39 -!- RedDak has joined. 09:00:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:21:45 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:43:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:47:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("night all"). 12:35:35 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:57:08 -!- jix_ has joined. 13:04:29 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:14:51 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:54:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:40:07 -!- ololobot has joined. 14:49:27 >>> in-fi (5 - 2) * (7 - 1) + (8 - 3) * (1 - 0) 14:49:27 5 - 2 7 * 1 8 3 + 0 14:49:32 >>> in-pr (5 - 2) * (7 - 1) + (8 - 3) * (1 - 0) 14:49:38 >>> in-po (5 - 2) * (7 - 1) + (8 - 3) * (1 - 0) 14:49:40 darn 14:50:23 >>> in-pr (5 - 2) * (7 - 1) + (8 - 3) * (1 - 0) 14:50:24 + * - 5 2 - 7 1 * - 8 3 - 1 0 14:50:27 >>> in-po (5 - 2) * (7 - 1) + (8 - 3) * (1 - 0) 14:50:51 >>> in-po (5 - 2) * (7 - 1) + (8 - 3) * (1 - 0) 14:50:52 ['*', ['-', 5, 2], ['-', 7, 1]] * - 8 3 - 1 0 + 14:50:54 .. 14:51:21 gotta fix that later, i'm late already -> 14:54:03 yay for coding instead of school 14:57:52 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:23:27 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:50:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:30:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit). 16:47:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:50:37 vive le ddl de musique licenciée, gratuite et légale :D 17:20:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:49:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:57:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:06:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:15:44 -!- jix_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:16:00 -!- jix__ has joined. 18:23:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:23:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:53:41 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:00:57 -!- oklofok has joined. 19:00:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:18:38 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 19:26:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:32:32 -!- navaburo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:37:42 -!- ihope has joined. 19:43:31 The idea of a parsing-based language came into my head while I was pondering this JSP diagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:JSP_RLE_correspondence.png 19:46:16 A parser is given a string as state. It then chomps off stuff from the beginning of the string and eventually either returns something or fails. 19:46:41 If it fails, all the stuff it chomped off is unchomped. If it succeeds, it stays chomped. 19:49:58 Let's not yet go crazy and add first-class functions. :-P 19:50:27 There could be a notation, much like Haskell's do-notation, for putting parsers together to get new ones. 19:50:48 Hmm... s/,//g 19:56:38 ihope: Combinatorial parsing. 19:56:43 ihope: You've just described it 19:56:49 Indeed, I have. 19:56:58 The do-notation thing and an alternation syntax. 19:57:03 you realize this is just StateT String [], right? 19:57:21 oerjan: I rather doubt that. 19:57:44 or perhaps StateT String Maybe... 19:57:54 Closer. 19:58:11 My description has no way to, say, append to the beginning of your string. 19:59:05 well restricting the allowed operations is an exercise for the reader :) 19:59:18 :-P 20:01:19 I guess restriction does have to be possible. 20:01:25 At least a little, anyway. 20:02:28 My delimited continuation monad transformer implementation would work just fine if all the data constructors were exposed as normal functions. 20:02:47 Exposing them as data constructors would allow the reading of Things Not Meant To Be Read. 20:03:29 indeed 20:04:41 is it just me, or are semaphores basically identical to locks 20:05:17 One of them is shift, one of them is return, and one of them is join . lift. 20:06:27 Semaphores... are those the type of boolean variable where the basic operation thing is "wait until it's X and make it not X"? 20:06:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29 20:07:54 ehird`_: a lock is just a semaphore with 1 resource, right? 20:08:15 is it? 20:08:17 i don't know 20:08:23 the functions look basiaclly the same to me 20:08:25 neither do i 20:08:40 however semaphores allow more than one resource, which is not identical 20:10:49 Semaphores can be implemented using a semaphore. 20:11:08 Naturally, this is probably useless unless you have only one semaphore. 20:44:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:49:52 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:50:35 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:55:59 -!- ihope_ has joined. 21:00:45 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 22:44:01 -!- ehird`_ has quit ("Pong timeout"). 22:44:51 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:45:14 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 22:45:25 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:00:42 -!- oklofok has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"). 23:01:16 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:01:24 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:11:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:42:01 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... 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