00:01:02 # handle esolang input requests 00:01:03 :P 00:01:46 lol 00:02:02 I meant how would I hook something up to the esolang input requests? 00:02:57 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:03:31 well, let's see.. is it required to know that the esolang wants input? 00:04:45 YES 00:04:52 perhaps your pesoix just supplies output to the esolangs input when it has some available. 00:04:53 Unless I make the changes in the spec.. 00:06:03 I think I have a little I/O diagram in there 00:06:58 Let's suppose '.' is some PSOX request that returns stuff 00:07:13 How is PSOX supposed to tell the difference between ',.' and '.,' 00:07:29 One would get one thing, the other would get something else 00:09:12 Push comes to shove, see http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 00:09:18 Under Pseudodomains 00:09:40 That's only if I can't determine when an input requests is being made, or when the size of the stdin buffer goes down 00:09:48 Obviously, you need an explicit get_stdin() function. 00:10:08 I've been thinking about it a while, and that's the only sane way to get it done. 00:10:18 You mean like in the current specs (with the PSOX input function?) 00:10:35 pikhq, is what's in the psox.txt file now sane? 00:10:48 Under Pseudodomains 00:11:27 * pikhq agrees 00:11:35 very sane. 00:11:41 :) 00:12:10 Also, I now see how I'd implement the PEBBLE pass. 00:12:27 Will your modified input thing be able to get rid of the ending newline? 00:12:38 (for fixed-byte requests) 00:13:13 No; the PEBBLE "input" command only accepts one byte of input. 00:13:47 So the substitutuonary input will read in one byte, then will it be able to discard the newline? 00:13:56 . . . Oh. 00:14:07 You know, the newline bit would still be tricky. 00:14:29 Without it, on interps. that require newlines, there might be deadlocks 00:14:30 It'd be much, much easier (maybe even possible) if the newline wasn't output. 00:16:02 Still a useful API, just hard to get to work with PEBBLE. 00:16:57 * Sgeo doesn't see a way to remove the newline 00:19:44 pikhq, is it workable with the newline? 00:21:03 Not for PEBBLE. 00:21:09 D: 00:21:15 For raw Brainfuck, sure, just not for PEBBLE. . . 00:21:50 There's no way it can be taken out unless it runs on interpreters that don't need newlines or something 00:22:22 0x00 0x02 0x09 0x0A: Returns a single char from stdin. 00:24:08 It would cause deadlock on some interpreters 00:24:27 Um, wha? 00:24:45 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:24:46 Suppose I requested a character like that, then read in 00:24:55 ',' is blocking, so I wait 00:25:07 but the interp doesn't send it until it gets the newline 0x0A 00:25:19 But that's not going to come because the BF prog isn't requesting it 00:25:25 "interp"? 00:25:31 esolang interpreter 00:25:34 Which interp? PSOX interpreter? Esolang interpreter? 00:25:38 Oh. 00:26:05 I don't think that's how it works. 00:26:44 hm? 00:27:07 A lot of esolang interpreters use buffered input, which may work *somewhat* like that when called from a shell. . . 00:27:42 But you can just flush the stream going to the esolang interpreter, and the ',' will stop blocking. 00:27:58 oO I can? 00:28:03 Are you _sure_? 00:28:06 (it just so happens that outputting 0x0A also flushs a stream) 00:28:19 * Sgeo pokes GregorR 00:28:20 Erm. 00:28:29 * pikhq pokes GregorR, too. Tell us if we're idiots. 00:35:32 GregorR, you there? 00:40:18 What's this? 00:40:22 I'm confused by the above statements. 00:40:53 If you have a pipe to some other program, and that other program is buffering, you can't force it to take all your input, only it can. 00:41:13 GregorR, and are there interpreters that will take it in only after a newline? 00:41:18 *esolang interpreters 00:41:27 Well, it's not as likely to do that on input as on output. 00:41:58 Are there some that do? 00:42:44 I'm muddling in my head exactly what happens in various situations here ... 00:43:48 I don't /think/ that fread buffer. fgets() always waits for a newline or EOF, regardless of the input source, but it's unlikely that that would be used. 00:43:51 very off topic, GregorR don't get derailed 00:44:13 http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/hanoi.bf 00:44:17 Terrible code 00:44:21 >< and <> found 00:44:27 Sgeo: It's generated. 00:44:44 Also, that poorly generated code is part of the impetus for PEBBLE in the first place. ;) 00:44:45 Plus arbitrary [-] at the beginning.. 00:44:48 If fread doesn't buffer, and stdin is a pipe, then you just have to make sure you've forced the pipe not to buffer the other way. 00:45:04 GregorR, 'buffer the other way'? 00:45:23 The PSOX interpreter would have to make sure it's not buffering the output back over the pipe. 00:45:42 That is to say: The buffering problem is primarily on writing. 00:46:06 Ok, so remove the 0x0A requirement on returned things? 00:46:18 *things returned from PSOX functions? 00:46:20 I don't see why? 00:46:40 Can it hurt? 00:46:55 Extraneous 0x0A's sent to BF programs == not fun' 00:47:00 It can if the PSOX interpreter is poorly written. 00:47:17 So I'd write big fat warnings about buffering into the docs :) 00:47:21 Other than that, shouldn't hurt. 00:47:41 * GregorR goes to take a shower. 00:47:52 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:48:01 * Sgeo needs to eat now 00:48:08 * Sgeo will modify the specs after he eats 00:48:19 Sgeo: Allow me to provide one recommendation for you. . . Believe me, math functions would help a lot with Brainfuck. 00:54:52 brainfuck is imperative 01:02:18 bsmntbombdood: Well aware. 01:14:16 pikhq, what domain would they go into? 01:14:23 Domain 0x04? 01:14:37 Which would be renamed from I/O Utils to.. "Utils"? 01:14:41 "Misc"? 01:15:03 pikhq, and should the functions just accept and return longnums? 01:16:17 Sgeo: It'd also be nice to just do 8-bit nums via PSOX rather than raw Brainfuck. 01:16:47 Well, any 8-bit num is just 0x01 byte 0x00 01:16:58 But I guess I can make single-byte versions.. 01:17:52 But it wouldn't be a wrapping 8-bit that way. 01:18:13 * Sgeo was wondering how overflows should be handled.. 01:18:18 and what about negative numbers? 01:18:31 Status code byte? 01:18:48 Should I have a separate domain for math from the Simple I/O domain? 01:18:53 Or one "Utils" 01:19:08 Overflows don't happen in Galois fields. 01:19:17 0x02 at the start of a longnum indicating that it's negative? 01:19:18 ..? Galois fields? 01:19:32 pikhq, yes, but for the single-byte functions.. 01:19:42 Number systems with finite numbers of numbers. 01:19:58 (That happen to be fields.) 01:20:04 Like the integers modulo 7. 01:20:40 We're dealing with integers mod 256, I think 01:21:01 Ah. 01:21:41 Assume that you're dealing with unsigned integers. 01:21:59 So what happens when something requests 1 - 2? 01:22:04 status byte? 01:22:24 Modulo 256, 1 - 2 = 255. 01:22:29 Though I suggest a carry bit :-P 01:23:53 ihope: I don't. 01:24:04 You don't? 01:24:07 That's the exact behavior of an unsigned char on my system. ;) 01:24:37 1 - 2 gives 255 and sets the carry bit to... 1, I guess. 01:24:57 And, since the reason for these functions is to be easier-to-use equivalents of an 8-bit Brainfuck's mod 256 math operators, carry bits don't make much sense. 01:25:16 Or maybe 1 - 2 is the same as 1 + -2, and evaluating -2 at all ones the carry bit. 01:25:17 do status bytes make sense? 01:25:41 0x01 if everything's ok, 0x00 if overflow in one direction or the other? 01:28:15 I find doing it the other way around slightly more elegant. 01:28:38 But in BF, ' 01:28:43 1 for wrap, 0 for no wrap. 01:28:44 But in BF, '[' 01:28:46 argh 01:29:04 * ihope hands Sgeo a potion of holy water 01:29:05 But in BF, '[' is a sort of "if nonzero" 01:29:07 #dip your enter key in this. 01:29:12 lol 01:30:24 Well, at least in PEBBLE's addvar macro, I have the ability to throw that stuff away. 01:32:42 We're sticking with the input function thingy? 01:33:08 aka giving up on piping? 01:33:12 er, the problem 01:34:58 hm, it looks like I never wrote in the specs that functions return a mandatory 0x0A 01:36:10 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 01:37:10 "If an attempt is made to map a longname onto an occupied shortname," 01:37:15 What should be next? 01:37:27 Should I have it fail, or replace the old one? 01:37:31 Fail. 01:37:38 pikhq, comments? 01:37:38 Well. 01:37:51 Fail if there's a way to make it replace the old one; replace the old one if there's a way to put it back. 01:38:41 Way to put it back: Do the thing that got the original there in the first place 01:38:52 Incidentally, there will be no status code for that function 01:40:53 pikhq, agree or disagree? 01:41:56 * Sgeo puts "replace" in there 01:42:17 What does "Fail if there's a way to make it replace the old one" mean? 01:44:43 What I mean is to make sure that the option you go with can easily simulate the other one. 01:44:56 oh 01:45:11 With no arbitrary overhead, preferably. 01:45:27 I mean, the client must have put the original there anyway, so it can replace i 01:45:43 So "replace", since there will be no explicit replace function 01:46:02 ty ihope 01:52:40 Sgeo: Why not have an explicit remove function, though? 01:52:49 -!- Figs has joined. 01:52:54 !bf ++++++++++[>+++++++<-]>++++++.---.+++++.+++++++.+++. 01:52:58 LINUX 01:53:25 NO 01:54:02 the C version was cooler... 01:54:36 () 01:55:05 pikhq, it's unneeded? 01:55:21 Sgeo: Hmm. You've got a point there. 01:55:40 I'd say that replacing it wouldn't violate the law of least surprise. 01:57:15 Should I bother including stuff for strings that can contain NULs? 01:59:04 I thought that much had already been discussed. 01:59:27 It's not in the specs yet 01:59:30 * Sgeo will put it in 02:01:31 "RStrings are like NUL-terminated strings except that they can contain NULs. 02:01:31 0x01 escapes a 0x00, so that "0x01 0x00" resolves to "0x00". 0x01 also escapes 0x01, 02:01:31 so "0x01 0x00" resolves to "0x01". A "0x01" followed by anything else removes the 0x01." 02:01:33 That good? 02:02:01 the last bit causes 0x01 to be like a "safe escape" 02:02:31 ..and also makes Longstrings valid as RStrings.. 02:02:35 * Sgeo noticed 02:05:19 * Sgeo pokes ihope and pikhq 02:05:28 I have been poked! 02:06:11 * Sgeo was thinking of XStrings as something that could contain a Longstring, RString, or NUL-terminated string 02:06:19 But all Longstrings are RStrings.. 02:06:40 Sounds complicated. 02:06:58 Hmm.. 02:07:22 Maybe this: PSOX functions that deal with stuff with NULs should accept RStrings, and return Longstrings.. 02:07:36 I didn't solve all your problems yesterday? :'( I'm sorry 02:10:04 Check out the new http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt .. look under Longstrings and RStrings 02:11:03 * Sgeo pokes pikhq 02:11:17 Is having most functions return Longstrings good for PEBBLE? 02:11:30 erm, most that need data with embedded NUL's 02:11:36 *return 02:13:50 Loop N: Read a byte. If it's 0, output N. Otherwise, read N-1 more bytes and loop the concatenation of the first byte and the rest of the bytes. 02:13:51 Loop 1. 02:14:12 eh? 02:14:38 Essentially, a number is represented by the number of bytes in the number, followed by the number itself. 02:14:47 Given that nothing in PEBBLE even assumes a *string*, the format of a longstring wouldn't matter much; anything assuming a string would be added for the sake of PSOX. 02:15:04 "The number of bytes" is a number in this format, while "the number itself" is just a number. 02:15:10 All this is terminated with a 0. 02:15:50 ihope, that isn't good for BF and it can only provide a finite amount of numbers anyway.. 02:15:59 I've thought about the number problem before.. 02:16:09 What do you mean, it can only provide a finite amount of numbers? 02:16:32 The number itself can only be 256 bytes 02:16:55 Imean, unless I'm understanding you incorrectly.. 02:17:10 The number of bytes is given as a number in this format, not as a byte. 02:17:29 um.. recursive? 02:17:29 Er, hmm. 02:17:37 Yes, it is recursive. 02:17:53 Essentially, it's SADOL's number system, minus the commas in front and plus a 0 on the end. 02:18:08 My longnum format is nice and simple and readable easily by BF 02:18:17 Indeed, that's very true. 02:18:57 Incidentally, with the HTTP domain, it won't use longnums for HTTP status codes.. 02:19:09 Strings, instead? 02:19:15 fixed bytes 02:19:18 Ah. 02:19:25 eg. 404 would be 0x04 0x04 02:19:32 500 would be 0x05 0x00 02:20:47 Since HTTP status codes like 404 are understood like 4|04 02:21:43 Any comments on strings? 02:22:06 and the input function was updated 02:22:25 Time to write an example for the new PSOX? 02:28:25 o.o 02:28:32 Figs, hm? 02:28:40 what is 0x4 0xFF then? 02:28:48 *04 02:29:02 Meaningless 02:29:06 ok 02:29:15 4 times final fantasy! :P 02:29:19 lol 02:35:12 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-new-cat.b 02:35:34 * Sgeo vaguely hopes he didn't make a mistake 02:36:13 oO I did 02:37:25 Ok fixe 02:37:27 *fixed 02:38:22 * Sgeo pokes ihope, Figs, and pikhq 02:39:11 ¡Me he pocado! 02:39:13 :-P 02:40:46 hi 02:41:06 Note the PSOX example 02:41:09 any comments? 02:41:19 did you realize that your name contains: pi hoe? 02:41:35 ..no 02:41:40 also "oh pie" 02:41:50 (this is, of course, @ihope) 02:41:54 oh 02:42:08 lol 02:42:15 Oh pie! I'm a pi hoe! 02:43:26 reminds me of reddit enumerating the fibonacci #s 02:43:48 speaking of which, I haven't checked xkcd in a while... 02:44:47 oh 02:44:55 I should set an alarm for "13:37" 02:45:19 Sometimes, I'm still awake at 3:14 and I say "pi time!' 02:45:33 "4:04 -- Sleep Not Found" 02:55:47 Indeed, the fact that stuff starts in the morning is unfortunate. 02:55:57 Why can't they start school at 8:40 instead of 7:40? 02:56:00 And why does it matter? 02:56:59 Maybe all geeks suffer from DSPS. 02:57:51 I'd prefer to have school start at, say, 10. 02:58:41 DSPS? 02:58:51 * Sgeo 'd prefer to have school 02:58:58 Delayed sleep phase syndrome. 02:59:14 Not being able to fall asleep until a certain (very late) time. 02:59:20 At least, that's how I understand it. 02:59:29 I don't have class till 3 on most days 02:59:34 :) 02:59:44 tues, thurs, friday though I have it at 8 :( 02:59:52 but it's CS and Logic, so meh :P 03:00:15 I've got high school. :/ 03:00:28 * Sgeo graduated recently :/ 03:00:29 If it's a US high school (which it isn't), I'm going to complain non-stop to my parents until we move there. 03:00:39 Don't tell me high school starts at the same time nationwide. 03:01:08 It's 10 PM right now. I simply don't want to sleep. 03:01:29 i'm always tired in the mornings and untired in the nights, no matter how much i sleep 03:01:45 If it weren't for parents and school, I think I would indeed not fall asleep until about 4 AM. 03:02:34 that's what i do in the summer 03:02:46 I'd probably fall into an approximately 26 hour day. 03:03:06 (that being what I do when no time requirements are placed on me) 03:03:28 Though I don't have school in the summer, my mom apparently doesn't want my sleep cycle to be hours behind that of the rest of the family. 03:04:13 parents are like that :/ 03:04:35 college 03:04:36 My mother's disciplinary action consists (almost?) entirely of yelling at me if she's displeased. 03:04:39 right because your future employer is going to care all about your sleep schedule 03:04:42 I just graduated highschool recently :) 03:05:05 Therefore, she has to tell me several times before I actually do something. 03:05:06 if you think school sucks, you ain't seen nothin yet 03:05:24 g4lt-mordant: google! 03:05:40 or just watch office space 03:05:44 vaccum cleaners suck. Lava is just not cool. 03:05:46 Can I just hope I'll be able to find a job that doesn't care when I get there? :-P 03:05:53 Er. 03:06:00 That lets me get there at a late time. 03:06:02 ihope: work from home. 03:06:14 they don't. they ust fire you if you fail to show up when they want 03:06:15 ihope: google! 03:06:18 you have got to have a lot of disciple though 03:06:32 I'm working from home this summer 03:06:35 it's a pain in the ass ;P 03:06:37 (That's how I work. Occasionally, I'll forget part of what I was going to say and say something similar but different instead.) 03:06:37 * Sgeo would go INSANE without some sort of social environment 03:06:54 Sgeo: that's why I'm always on IRC... 03:07:03 I meant face2face 03:07:10 Discipline is something I'm sort of lacking in. 03:07:17 yeah, me too. 03:07:20 Sgeo, WFH is prfetty easy, and you get one day in house at my particular job to maintain social interaction 03:07:21 * Figs spanks himself.... 03:07:27 WFH? 03:07:34 what fuck huh? 03:07:36 :P 03:07:45 working from home 03:07:46 work from home, also calld telecommuting 03:07:57 g4lt-mordant: Working is a lot like school, except school provides you with a few hours of homework on the side. 03:08:09 I'm probably quite lucky that I'm able to get good grades without hard work... 03:08:14 ...while work provides you with a lot more than a few 03:08:34 pikhq: and doesn't pay you 03:08:38 bsmntbombdood: True. 03:08:56 if people were more sensible they would say it's a waste of time 03:09:04 The bit of math class last year concerning conic sections sort of hit me hard. I'd sort of been used to already knowing everything they teach in math class. 03:09:06 g4lt-mordant: I typically end up showing up at school at about 6 and get home at about 5. 03:09:11 IT'S A WASTE OF TIME! 03:09:12 :D 03:09:16 (largely because of rides, but still. . .) 03:09:24 I wonder how I manage to learn things before they're taught in math class. 03:09:31 pikhq: beats my old schedule of showing up at 7 and getting home at 7 03:09:37 Figs: Barely. 03:09:38 pikhq, s/5/10/ and s/school/work/ and you might start getting the hint 03:09:41 and then having a couple hours of homework... 03:09:53 * Sgeo read Algebra the Easy Way, Trigonometry the Easy Way, and Calculus the Easy Way 03:10:33 I was going to bed at like 12~2 and getting up at 5... 03:10:39 well, more like 5:40 03:10:49 g4lt-mordant: You're working 16 hours a day?!? 03:11:02 pikhq, joys of mandatory overtime 03:11:22 Quit, sue, stop being the corporation's bitch. 03:11:27 the joys of time-and-a-half 03:11:29 So, math class doesn't teach me anything I didn't already know, Spanish class is way too easy, history class somehow manages to consist entirely of taking notes, and science class is... often redundant. 03:11:41 Ugh, suing. 03:11:50 Labor laws are silly. 03:11:56 yeah 03:12:22 (Yes, I'm often against having opinions, but everything has to be said by somebody.) 03:12:24 bsmntbombdood, + $5/hr incentive 03:12:35 I'll be sure to tell that to people killing themselves by working too much. 03:13:06 Should we have laws to make up for shortcomings of the human mind? 03:13:21 I guess that's what, say, banning recreational drugs is all about. 03:13:21 we already do? 03:13:47 drug laws are baaaad 03:14:14 I'm all for being able to get away from laws. 03:14:35 I already have this job on a 9 month plan, if what I fear appens in 9 months, I'll be quitting anyways, so it'll work itself out 03:14:45 Assuming the world consists only of the United States, federal laws are often... yes, baaaad. 03:15:14 Obviously, though, there are, in fact, countries other than the United States. 03:15:25 (Is my comma density high enough yet?) 03:16:07 I was working on a bot for another channel, and instead of outputting a list of nicks sensibly 03:16:17 It would go like "D, e, m, o, b, o, t" 03:16:32 * pikhq would like to congratulate the US on going back to the 1800's in terms of labor practices. 03:18:49 Have I said yet that I'm waiting for the school district density to increase a bit? 03:19:14 pikhq, thank India and Mexico for that. companies that had tolerable policies outsourced to india 03:19:36 Maybe you should move to India. 03:20:08 And it's not like we can just treat people in India worse than people in the US, not that they necessarily do. 03:20:28 If they don't, I don't need to know that. 03:21:20 ihope, apparntly in my job, if a customer complains twice within the same call about their accent, it's a firing, no warning 03:21:45 * pikhq just knows that people such as g4lt-mordant are getting screwed hard by 1800's labor laws 03:23:11 I'm thinking that the problem is that people don't have enough people that want to hire them. 03:23:38 I don't have a mailbox full of job offers. Then again, I'm not supposed to, seeing as how I'm still in high school. 03:24:01 I don't have a mailbox full of letters from other high schools, either. 03:24:58 Then again, I understand that high schools aren't very aggressive about these things. 03:25:11 Particularly not *public* high schools. ;) 03:25:16 Indeed. 03:26:01 * bsmntbombdood is in an alternative sort of high school program this year 03:26:10 I take it the government doesn't just say "for every satisfactory student-year, we'll give you this much money" and let school districts do whatever they want otherwise. 03:26:17 Alternative sort of high school program? 03:26:42 i get to do most of my work independently 03:26:49 i'm only in 2 classroom classes 03:27:02 Interesting. 03:27:10 and one of them is hardly a class 03:27:54 and then 2 online classes and 2 independent studies 03:28:40 Ooh, online classes! 03:28:51 Does the US have any online school districts? 03:30:10 completly online? definately not 03:30:17 How online do they get? 03:31:06 if i wanted to, i could take all my classes online, assuming they were offered 03:32:39 someone thought I was india 03:32:48 even though I was in the US 03:33:01 and have no accent 03:33:49 indian accents rock 03:34:35 I don't really know what sort of accent I have 03:34:38 but it isn't indian :P 03:35:33 * Figs moves too damned much 03:37:15 I think I would be much more motivated to go to bed if I knew I'd be able to fall asleep. 03:37:57 heh, bed motivation 03:38:27 read the texbook! 03:39:17 ihope: you'll be more motivated to go to bed when you're EXHAUSTED like I usually am after being up for 30 hours... 03:39:27 however 03:39:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:39:31 That too. 03:39:32 Hi GreaseMonkey 03:39:39 you won't be able to do anything for like 2 days after that 03:39:47 'lo 03:39:53 it's da greasy-moneky-man! allo. 03:40:08 Anything else I need to do with PSOX? 03:41:56 * Sgeo watches the chat wither away and die.. 03:41:57 oops.. 03:43:38 *dies* 03:43:41 *potato* 03:48:41 Comments on http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-new-cat.b ? 03:50:58 Anyone? 03:51:13 ??? 03:51:14 pikhq, Figs, ihope, GreaseMonkey? 03:51:26 comments on the example PSOX application? 03:51:26 just a mo 03:51:31 I don't understand it 03:51:31 :P 03:51:34 psox no 03:51:40 Ne ideo. 03:51:50 Figs, http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt 03:52:18 what is it supposed to *do*? 03:52:37 PSOX, or the example? 03:52:46 wtf is PSOX? 03:52:57 the example 03:53:05 It's a cat program 03:53:09 ah 03:53:13 takes input and copies it to output 03:53:37 PSOX is an API for languages like Brainf*** to access files and do networking stuff etc.. 03:53:53 ok 03:53:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to Dave2se. 03:54:24 -!- Dave2se has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 03:55:29 "Members of the sect believe that to reach eternal salvation, men are supposed to have at least three wives." 03:55:30 wtf 03:55:35 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/us/09polygamy.html?ex=1346990400&en=05ce6c8a4355ddff&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss 03:56:25 lol 03:58:24 Figs, mormons? 03:59:43 A branch thereof, yes. 03:59:53 s/wifes/lays/ 04:00:26 figures 04:01:50 i saw a mormon once 04:02:08 she was wearing tight pants with "MOR MON" wrote across her ass 04:02:55 yeah, in that respect they have one thing good on scientologists 04:03:38 Mormons, like any other religion, have their complete and utter nutcases. 04:03:41 Question: Is PSOX ready for 1.0? 04:03:42 google has become evil 04:03:47 they want to put up video ads 04:03:48 Scientology is composed *of* the nutcases. :p 04:03:48 Figs, eh? 04:03:50 oh 04:03:50 according to wired 04:04:20 http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/09/google-discusse.html?cid=82080045 04:04:20 pikhq, live in SE Idaho or utah for a while, you'll realize that mormons alre all nutcase as well 04:05:02 g4lt-mordant: Perhaps the ones in Utah are nutcases. 04:05:29 (admittedly, merely judging from their theology, it does seem a tiny bit nutsy) 04:05:32 Bye 04:05:37 My dad's being an a**hole 04:05:44 bye 04:05:46 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:08:40 -!- Figs has changed nick to Figs_. 04:09:00 -!- Figs_ has changed nick to Figs. 04:54:20 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:56:11 -!- cmeme has joined. 05:04:18 -!- g4lt-mordant has changed nick to g4lt-sb100. 05:05:18 You named in honor of Strong Bad's 100th email? 05:05:48 he got 100? 05:05:54 he should see my gmail inbox... 05:06:01 686 at present 05:07:04 He's answered 175 by now. 05:08:27 that sounds more accurate 05:23:39 sun blade 100, BTW 05:24:05 but hey, why think or anything? 05:24:22 sun blade? 05:25:07 I don't do Suns, but I'm a Homestar Runner addict. ;) 05:27:44 What's a g4lt, though? 05:27:50 Greater for less than? 05:27:53 Good question? 05:28:34 galt? 05:29:08 I can't believe that conversationh has degenereated to my fucking nickname 05:29:08 What's a galt? 05:30:01 g4lt-sb100: I guess we're just out of topics? 05:30:08 http://www.scientific.org/articles/JFS%20excerpt.htm <-- we could talk about this instead 05:30:58 * ihope ponders making the xkcd 90 joke 05:31:41 like the ass switching? 05:31:46 fucking-jacket? :P 05:31:51 sweet ass-car? :P 05:32:45 Yes, fucking nickname. 05:32:47 "False positives can also arise due to misinterpretation of test results. One such error led to the false conviction of Timothy Durham (14, 17) . In 1993 a Tulsa Oklahoma jury convicted Durham of the rape of an 11-year-old girl. He was sentenced to 3000 years in prison." 05:33:05 I don't think he'll actually serve that. 05:33:52 "In 1993 a Tulsa Oklahoma jury convicted Durham of the rape of an 11-year-old girl. He was sentenced to 3000 years in prison. ... Durham presented eleven witnesses who placed him in another state at the time of the crime, but the jury rejected his alibi defense." 05:33:57 yeah 05:34:03 I didn't see your quote :P 05:34:24 he was released in 1997 05:34:27 read down 05:34:29 Just invite immortality. 05:34:41 So he only served a 750th of his sentence? 05:34:53 !calc 4/3000 05:34:56 Huh? 05:34:59 :p 05:35:19 I want to only have to serve a 750th of any jail sentences I get... 05:35:42 * Figs gives you a sentance of 750 lifetimes... 05:35:49 D'oh. 05:35:51 you can serve 1/750 of it 05:35:53 :D 05:35:59 I wonder what the longest sentence anybody's ever gotten was. 05:36:16 ihope: Only 1 gives you a chance of release with good behavior, IIRC. 05:36:35 multipe lifetimes without parole. :P 05:36:58 Is a sentence of 3000 years actually different from a double life sentence? 05:37:07 In practice, no. 05:37:29 (as far as I know) 05:38:24 I wonder if anybody's ever been sentenced past the end of the universe. 05:38:47 Chuck Norris might have served a double one of those. :-P 05:39:04 d'oh 05:39:24 I don't know but people have gotten 3+ lifetimes, I think 05:39:43 (though once you get a lifetime without parole, what's the point of having more of them?) 05:39:53 Yeah... 05:40:49 http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/long45.html 05:41:00 "Dudley Wayne Kyzer was jailed for 10,000 years by a court in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, in 1981 for murdering his wife." http://www.thatsweird.net/history5.shtml 05:41:01 By that point, you can only get worse with a death sentence. 05:41:23 yeah 05:41:51 "In 1994 Oklahoma rapist Darron Bennalford Anderson received a 2,200-year jail sentence. When he appealed and won a new trial, he was convicted again and resentenced to more than 90 additional centuries behind bars - including 4,000 years each for rape and sodomy, 1,750 years for kidnapping, 1,000 years for burglary and robbery, and 500 years for grand larceny." http://www.thatsweird.net/history5. 05:41:53 shtml 05:42:20 Seems a bit excessive. 05:42:32 the requested sentace against Gabtriel march grandos was 384,912 05:42:41 but he only got 7,109 05:42:52 "He was charged with 42,768 instances of failing to deliver letters. I think I know how we got the term 'Postal' now." 05:43:09 Also, wouldn't the *additional sentencing upon appeal* be a matter of double jeapordy? 05:43:33 Surely, an appeal by the defendant would either strike down a sentence or uphold it? 05:43:39 (obviously not) 05:44:29 right, the new trail part is what did it. he got a neew trial, they found him guiltier if you will 05:44:41 I know. 05:44:54 And that's dual jeapordy, I feel. 05:46:19 and you feel something that isn't the case. if he gets a new trail, he gets a new trial, it's as if the other one never existed 05:46:25 http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9773662-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad <--- BWAHAHAHAHAHA 05:46:37 Microsoft campaign against itself :P 05:46:46 Welcome to the definition of dual jeapordy. . . 05:48:45 first thing, it's DOUBLE jeopardy, if you're going to mindlessly parade around something, at lest get the name right. second, double jeopardy means you cannot bee tried twice for the same crime, therefore accourding to your definition, the second trial should have never been granted. the defendant waived that right to get the trial in the first place 05:49:06 My apologies. 05:49:45 I'm arguing what I think should have happened, not what did happen. Clearly, he did get the second trial, and got screwed for it. 05:50:07 and the only person he has to blame is himself, since he asked for it 05:50:10 Rather than just having the additional trial determine if the sentence should be brought down. 05:50:42 (of course, if new evidence came up and he got convicted of completely new things, then that's a completely different issue) 05:51:18 well, there's the problem, innit? he asked for a new trial, he got one, it turned out worse. sucks tobe him 05:53:06 wow, digg sucks 05:53:22 I click on a link... site's totally dead 05:53:26 go back, 05:53:33 and now the number of diggs has jumped by 30 05:53:33 claimng double jeopardy in his case is wrong, as HE asked for the second trial 05:53:38 wtf?!?! 05:53:56 Figs, it took you this long to find out? I use SU 05:54:07 I use reddit 05:54:13 but occasionally I still look on digg 05:54:46 I used to use SU, but they changed something in the way their toolbar works, and it stopped working right for me 05:54:51 I don't remember what exactly 05:55:15 I think it was just too large and I was loosing screen space 05:55:23 (because of something they added) 05:58:13 *sigh* 05:58:34 you know you've had too much of "web 2.0" when you start looking for the "reply" button on bash quotes >.< 06:08:00 go to bed or not go to bed? 06:09:00 !bf <. 06:09:11 !ps 06:09:14 1 Figs: ps 06:09:35 !rand 06:09:38 Huh? 06:10:12 oooh, right a prng in brainfuck! 06:14:54 prng? 06:15:04 oh 06:15:14 pseudo random number generator :P 06:15:20 http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/media/bush/ 06:20:12 go to bed A.) Now B.) After watching a movie 06:21:16 (getupearly? now : later)(); 06:21:39 provided that now, later are function pointers, and getupearly equates to a boolean 06:21:43 getupearly is not boolean 06:21:58 getuptime is more appropriate 06:22:22 (CanSleepEnough(getuptime) ? now : later)(); 06:22:30 getuptime == 10am 06:22:35 time()? 06:22:41 23:22 06:23:38 (timediff(curr_time+length_of_movie,getuptime)>=8.5 ? now : later)(); 06:23:52 hmm 06:24:47 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:25:05 that would be later 06:25:08 but it's cold in here :( 06:28:57 (!canthinkforself() ? googlelucky("potato").imagesearch().firstpage.contains(nudity) ? gotobed : stayup)(); 06:29:11 nudity of what 06:29:11 s/?/&& 06:29:20 potatoes 06:34:54 aaag 06:35:05 i accidently downloaded the french version :( 06:35:46 of potato nudity? 06:36:02 nudity knows no language bounds... even potato nudity! 06:49:59 -!- importantshock has quit (Connection timed out). 06:59:31 -!- viciousparrots has joined. 07:00:39 Could someone please add 37 an 47 and tell me the answer? 07:02:08 what base? 07:02:09 :P 07:02:21 base 10 07:02:43 84? 07:02:52 am I missing some trick here? 07:03:00 No, not really 07:03:27 I don't feel like pulling up my calculator ;) 07:03:30 bah :P 07:03:39 I have a calculator in my command prompt :) 07:21:35 -!- Figs has left (?). 07:26:39 -!- viciousparrots has quit. 07:58:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:15:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:15:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:48:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:03:49 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 12:13:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:23:17 -!- jix has joined. 12:36:53 -!- feesh has joined. 12:49:32 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:59:20 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:00:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:10:26 (ihope) The bit of math class last year concerning conic sections sort of hit me hard. I'd sort of been used to already knowing everything they teach in math class. <<< i'm last year @ high school, and learning about the basics of integration... 13:10:31 never heard "conic section" 13:19:05 -!- ehird` has quit. 13:21:21 that one really needs a calculator :P 13:39:48 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:42:02 anyone alive? 13:48:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:53:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:04:33 i see nobod yis alive =) 14:06:58 i'm kinda 14:07:10 but i'm too tired to think :< 14:07:31 try simple SVO sentences and i may catch some of them. 14:09:15 and there is always good ol' feesh 14:09:52 feesh? i now know 4 fishy nicks. 14:09:58 oh, 5 14:10:23 oklopol: maybe hard for me ;p 14:10:29 feesh has nothing to do with fish 14:10:35 it's actually more abouce feces 14:11:13 fish feces 14:11:51 feesh is pretty fishy, no matter where it's derived :) 14:12:31 fair does I guess :p 14:13:36 so anyway 14:13:42 who is more awake than SVO-sentence level ;) 14:19:30 -!- ihope has joined. 14:24:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:25:23 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:50:55 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 14:51:07 -!- jix has joined. 15:16:46 -!- ihope_ has joined. 15:34:35 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:02:32 anyone awake? 16:12:50 yes 16:17:47 yay 16:17:57 hmm 16:18:18 * ehird` realises he uses #esoteric for a lot of "here's a technology-related idea, let's discuss it" insetad of "here's an esoteric-technology-related idea, let's discuss it" 16:18:23 maybe i should stop that ;p 16:18:52 yes 16:18:55 it's getting quite annoying now 16:20:29 :/ 16:42:36 -!- QS_E has joined. 16:42:43 -!- QS_E has quit (Client Quit). 17:24:54 i'm much more awake now 17:25:06 yay 17:25:06 3 hours of sleep does that sometimes 17:25:12 now swedish! :) 17:25:15 -> 17:25:23 so no "yay" :< 17:25:27 :p 17:25:36 oh well 17:26:02 -!- feesh has quit ("bbiab dinner"). 17:35:24 -!- Grognor has joined. 17:35:32 -!- Grognor has left (?). 17:43:35 -!- ihope__ has joined. 17:43:39 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 18:01:03 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:03:48 =) 18:08:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:23:44 -!- fizzie has joined. 18:26:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:53:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:55:05 -!- nooga has joined. 18:55:10 hello hello 18:55:15 :> 18:56:11 YO 18:57:37 have you seen TECO ? :D 18:59:00 NO 19:00:55 http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/TECO.html example 19:01:06 [1 J^P$L$$ 19:01:07 J <.-Z; .,(S,$ -D .)FX1 @F^B $K :L I $ G1 L>$$ 19:01:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_Editor_and_Corrector generally 19:02:17 TECO 19:03:04 this is really eso 19:03:17 and it was built to be usable editor, lol 19:03:54 nice, but you can get much more concise out of that much obscurity 19:04:05 (oklotalk!) 19:04:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_Editor_and_Corrector#Example_3 19:04:30 just check that out 19:04:42 looks like white noise mapped to ascii 19:04:54 ;] 19:05:15 nice 19:06:02 #F#@!1[A]~$ 19:08:54 not to mention it's quite ancient 19:09:01 TIABRA = TIABRA is a backronymed recursive acronym 19:17:25 BIAB = BIAB is a backronym ;) 19:19:13 -!- RodgerTheGreat has left (?). 19:47:34 Recursive acronyms like RALRAA aren't arbitrary. 19:50:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:56:48 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 19:57:25 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has left (?). 19:57:44 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 20:08:28 ihope hopes other people eat 20:08:40 Sometimes recursive acronyms like SRALSTSTCUW take some thinking to come up with. 20:09:08 script it 20:09:13 Well, WWDTMETCUW didn't take much effort to come up with. 20:09:30 You just have to calculate them lazily. 20:09:51 Well, (Well, WWDTMETCUW didn't take much effort to come up with.) didn't take much effort to come up with. 20:10:05 To be honest, random acronyms like TBHRALTSARAA sometimes aren't random at all. 20:10:05 Well, (Well, (Well, WWDTMETCUW didn't take much effort to come up with.) didn't take much effort to come up with.) didn't take much effort to come up with. 20:10:30 i hope ihiitlaitt is the last acronym in this thread... 20:11:03 No, I think the recursive acronyms (like NITTRALNWNS) will never stop. 20:11:40 NIARA is a recursive acronym 20:11:51 So is SIS. 20:11:58 bsmntbombdood: Already taken actually, but as TIARA 20:12:00 SIS is short. 20:12:25 Recursive RA. 20:12:38 y f = f (y f) 20:12:53 GIARA isn't a recursive acronym. 20:13:02 It stands for "GPL isn't a recursive acronym". 20:13:02 (ehird`) Recursive RA. <<< wrong 20:13:08 oklopol: no 20:13:10 oklopol: oh, yes 20:13:16 bsmntbombdood: you can hardly call that an acronym. 20:13:51 y f = f (\x -> y f x) 20:13:52 Another - AARR!! - recursive rendition? 20:14:01 yay, call by value 20:14:09 o 20:14:13 ^ acronym 20:14:22 Another - aargh! - recursive geometrical haystack? 20:14:25 ^ i might use that 20:15:03 Recursive acronyms, like RALRAF, are fun. 20:15:04 oklopol kicks lazy oklopol's penis or leg 20:15:26 bsmntbombdood says... no, i can't be arsed 20:15:28 ok fine 20:15:30 bsmntbombdood is a stick in my burrow 20:15:51 biasimb? 20:16:09 sure! 20:16:15 no, random words 20:16:16 bsmntbombdood says "Mountain? No! To bsmntbombdood only must burrow. Deadly ogling owls die." 20:16:45 lol! 20:17:21 ehird hates insanely rounded dragons 20:17:43 pikhq is kicking high quaters. 20:18:09 being sick may never tire bsmntbombdood, or maybe being dense opens other doors 20:18:11 SimonRC is moving only north, recursively - cool! 20:18:30 i really tried to make sense, but i just lack too much vocabulary :< 20:18:44 oerjan eats randy jam and neverland 20:19:25 EgoBot goes on, building offtopic translations. 20:19:30 ^ that one's actually true 20:19:49 cmeme mostly eats maggots - eww 20:19:51 clog logs our goings-on 20:19:59 oh that one's good 20:20:24 GregorR reads empowering goings-on, or readily replies. 20:20:56 ololobot lives only literally, overtly banning over terrain. 20:22:09 HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons 20:22:17 HURD of Interfaces Representing Depth 20:22:24 That pair's a weird one. 20:22:30 ehird of unix-replacing daemons 20:22:39 empowering ehird of interfaces representing depth 20:23:43 HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons of Interfaces Representing Depth 20:23:55 HURD of Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing Daemons of Interfaces Representing Depth 20:24:06 HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons of Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing Daemons of Interfaces Representing Depth 20:24:20 HURD of Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing Daemons of Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing Daemons of Interfaces Representing Depth 20:24:28 AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 20:25:10 Absolutely, I enter elephants' egregious earth-eating eruditely . . . 20:25:26 thats not recursive 20:25:42 AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, I enter elephants' egregious earth-eating eruditely . . . 20:25:52 collaborative project idea: alphabet poem 20:25:53 26 lines 20:25:56 on first line, 20:25:59 all words start with A 20:26:00 second, B 20:26:01 etc 20:26:28 hmm... Actually, alliteration angers all? :p 20:26:30 lol 20:26:45 it's really hard to design something like TECO 20:26:50 nooga only "OK"s graphically, also. 20:27:55 ihope hinders operatic, paleontological expeditions? 20:29:22 this alphabet poem thing is actually pretty easy 20:29:29 here's two lines: Actually, alliteration angers all/But - bemusingly - big blasts bother 20:29:29 :P 20:29:32 no plot, hooray 20:29:53 Can cats categorize cations? 20:30:05 Oops, all starting with ca(t). 20:31:15 Do dastardly doodles ? 20:31:46 Evidently everything esoteric enters egregiousness 20:32:15 (recursive, too :) ) 20:32:36 we need something for 20:33:07 denotate diversions? 20:33:12 ok 20:34:11 Four fiddle-playing fathers? XD 20:37:30 Four fiddle-playing fathers fake fornication 20:38:19 Good - great gullible ghouls. 20:38:38 H must involve H2S04 ;p 20:41:03 someone do h 20:41:20 H2S04 hardly helps health 20:42:27 ehird`: e? 20:42:48 nooga: Evidently everything esoteric enters egregiousness. 20:43:13 I imitate Incans, 20:43:13 Just jolly, Jeremiah. 20:43:17 i think i should have said "evolves" instead of "enters" :( 20:43:37 -!- tombom has joined. 20:44:59 we need one for esoteric 20:45:10 where 20:46:03 bsmntbombdood: ? 20:46:06 i guess i'm tired or drunken, or i just don't get what are you talking about now :D 20:46:12 an acronym 20:46:46 Eh, so only teabags esoteric really in cool. 20:46:47 hard 20:46:48 :P 20:46:55 that one fails 20:49:59 “yes 20:51:08 Kraken keys, um... 20:51:19 !bf 20:51:21 Krakens're key. :-P 20:51:22 !bff 20:51:25 Huh? 20:51:26 !bfff 20:51:29 Huh? 20:51:30 !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 20:51:33 ! 20:51:41 !~bff~ 20:51:43 Huh? 20:51:50 !sadol !"1! 20:51:52 !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++. 20:51:53 ! 20:51:55 M^ 20:52:13 !sadol !"1!sadol works? 20:52:15 BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 16, row: 1, col: 17) 20:52:17 ouch 20:52:20 yeah :d 20:52:22 Esoteric seems otherwise to easily run in circles 20:52:26 !sadol !"1! 20:52:29 ! 20:52:31 what is sadol 20:52:34 !sadol 20:52:39 !help sadol 20:52:41 To use an interpreter: Note: can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem. 20:53:34 ehird`: check the wiki 20:54:12 !sadol !",213Hello, world! 20:54:15 Hello, world! 20:54:18 Yay! 20:54:29 And what a crazy string literal ",213Hello, world! is. 20:55:30 At least it doesn't need escapes. 20:56:37 hmm 20:56:41 i think i can make the notation crazier 20:56:59 let's see, ( to push a call 20:57:47 and ~ is "pop if the function has been given enough arguments, otherwise change X into (X )" (:a3 20:57:47 !sadol (7:C",228!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(:R",228(7:C",2289"!R!:R",2287"!C!RR!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7( 20:57:49 BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 98, row: 1, col: 99) 20:57:54 so no ( 20:58:04 it starts off as () 20:58:19 hmm 20:58:25 let's see 20:58:38 a~bc~ 20:58:41 hmm 20:58:43 don't like that 20:58:45 how about 20:58:48 it changes into ( X) 20:58:57 bc~a~ 20:58:59 i like that 20:59:09 it's (a (b c)) 20:59:30 hmm 20:59:51 rld~wo~hello 20:59:56 that's (hello (wo) rld) 21:00:36 rld~wo~~lo~he~~~wo 21:00:41 that's (((he) lo) (wo) rld) 21:00:50 crazy eh? :) 21:01:07 hm 21:01:10 that should be 21:01:17 hmm 21:02:08 beginning = () and ~ = "if list has sufficient arguments, pop from list. otherwise, change list X into ( X)" is enough to express any sexpr right? 21:08:24 !sadol (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C 21:08:27 (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C 21:09:45 anyone? 21:10:34 hmm 21:10:38 @ = change to end of list 21:12:31 hmm 21:14:49 world;hello~!@2 = (! (hello world) 2) 21:15:02 * ehird` pasted http://pastie.textmate.org/private/et5hd0myxvbjmzujdydf0w 21:15:07 ^ rules 21:15:11 that's a damn esoteric program format ;) 21:16:08 im pretty sure that can handle all lists 21:19:53 Hm 21:19:58 I'm trying to represent (a b (c d) e f (g h (i j)) k) in it 21:20:00 but i can't seem to 21:22:27 -!- ihope__ has joined. 21:22:42 -!- tombom has quit. 21:34:38 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:37:04 * SimonRC thinks that "clog logs our garbage" works better 21:38:23 oh, and http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Alliteration 21:38:48 "Alliteration articulates an artistic and alacritous approach aimed at annotating and arranging alphabetic accoutrements as alarmingly affective alignments." etc 21:39:41 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 21:40:32 i insist it is infinitely improved if it includes initialism in its index 21:40:46 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 21:41:01 and i do so without even looking at the page 21:52:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:04:06 yawn 22:05:33 Affective? 22:05:46 Why is that in my spellchecker's dictionary? 22:06:07 because its a word 22:06:12 Oh. 22:06:37 random software musing, kinda esoteric: people make games in a day, but what about 1-hour games? you find a team, and have an hour to design and implement a game xD 22:08:13 * ihope__ ponders the relation between continuation-passing style and stack-based postfix notation 22:08:42 Stack-based postfix notation as in "2 3 +" means "push 2; push 3; pop twice, add, and push". 22:08:52 ehird`: easy, you just need 12 times as many people working on it 22:09:32 And, I guess, whether CPS can turn that into "+ 2 3 output". 22:09:45 SimonRC: heh 22:09:54 SimonRC: seriously, people do 1-day games that are quite elaborate 22:10:01 SimonRC: and 7-day games that seem like they took months 22:10:16 SimonRC: a good game could probably be made by 3-4 people in an hour 22:10:25 Go is all you need! Maybe. 22:12:52 * SimonRC wonders if Go contains an NP-complete problem. 22:13:24 P-space complete, actually 22:13:58 go contains /everything/ 22:13:59 (which is presumably even harder) 22:14:26 i totally don't get go 22:14:34 its like they tried to create an incomprehensible game 22:14:47 maybe they /were/ trying to create a model of computation, though, like they did 22:14:50 W 22:14:51 T 22:14:51 F 22:14:58 Woogles 22:14:59 Ten 22:15:01 Fidle 22:15:03 *fiddle 22:15:11 Go is a trivial game 22:15:16 much simpler than chess 22:15:21 i get chess 22:15:23 i don't get go 22:15:42 you put down pieces and the are catured if surrounded 22:15:47 how hard is that? 22:16:00 its not that simple.. 22:16:40 LOGSPACE <= NLOGSPACE <= PTIME <= NPTIME <= PSPACE, NLOGSPACE != PSPACE and all other between unknown 22:17:03 oerjan: yes 22:17:21 ehird`: really? I never noticed in all my time playing. 22:17:44 there is a little to argue about in the claiming of territory, but that's about it 22:17:45 well, from the rules i've seen - even the "simple" versions - its a lot more complex than that 22:17:55 point me to some 22:18:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_Go? 22:19:59 SimonRC: Go may have simple rules (it's a bit more complex than you make it out to be, though), but its strategy is anything but. 22:20:12 It's very much an emergent game. 22:20:51 I would be useless at Go even if I grokked the rules I suspect 22:21:07 nah, it just takes practice 22:21:12 eh 22:21:21 I'm decent at chess, and barely even know how to *play* Go. 22:21:25 lots and lots of practice 22:21:38 i'm lame at all board games 22:21:39 ;) 22:21:45 the subtlties of Go are no worse than those of chess 22:22:08 they tend to be fairly obvious, or at least the type of thing that you forget to mention because they are obvious 22:22:22 like, infinite loops are bad, hence the Ko rule 22:22:37 and you have to stop at some point, hence passing and seki 22:22:53 i like infinite loops 22:22:59 you're infiniteloopist 22:23:33 and suicide is quite easy to remember as well 22:24:35 to learn the lot, you just need a club 22:25:38 you get taught the basic concepts at first, then lose dozens of games in stupid ways to learn the basic stratergy, while being taught the subtlties as they become necessary in your games 22:26:18 BTW, the amount of practice is sfficient that you need a real passion for it if you are going to get high up 22:26:29 and you need to be a nutter 22:28:01 "and suicide is quite easy to remember as well" you only need to know it once 22:28:04 badumtish 22:37:25 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 23:06:03 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:52:23 -!- ehird` has quit. 23:59:41 actually it is spelt "*rimshot*"