00:02:31 jesus christ! ##c is terrible 00:08:53 I recall getting an answer to a question in ##c once. It took many hours and more insults and answers, but I did get it. 00:09:14 If I had a C question (which I never do because I'm meeeeeeeee) I'd ask in #esoteric :P 00:09:21 haha# 00:09:30 poppavic has to be the single most infuriating rambling idiot ever 00:10:16 rambling, yes 00:10:19 idiot, yes 00:10:37 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:10:37 but he's only infuriating if you're trying to argue with him. Don't. 00:10:54 when you don't, he's actually kinda funny. 00:11:16 i've always thought i could write a program that spews out nonsense at about the same rate as poppavic does 00:11:19 i might try it 00:12:36 :-) 00:13:48 hmm, so... about the sdl 00:13:50 :P 00:14:16 do i just copy the files in \bin to the \bin of mingw and so on? 00:14:38 and no, i've never really dl'd libraries :P 00:15:15 you know, you'd have a lot easier job if you just used a cygwin-based build system 00:15:17 gcc, gdb 00:15:21 make 00:15:28 well ok, you shouldn't use make yourself 00:15:30 but sdl uses make 00:15:31 ;) 00:15:54 hmm... i couldn't find gdb in the cygwin setup.. 00:16:11 it's there 00:16:15 i think it comes with gcc 00:16:26 i see 00:16:34 but anyway, gcc & gdb are top-notch tools and using them directly will benefit you greatly 00:16:37 oh 00:16:42 indeed it does 00:16:45 they're pretty much the gnu project's only decent achivements ;) 00:17:08 but... i kinda like a graphical view :| 00:17:40 -!- ehird` has left (?). 00:17:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:17:47 er sorry 00:17:47 but 00:17:51 * bsmntbombdood mangles GregorR 00:17:52 what is a graphical view to a compiler? 00:18:00 a compiler takes some code and makes a program 00:18:03 and tells you if anything is wrong 00:18:05 what is graphical about that? 00:18:07 not the compiler, the debugger 00:18:11 ok, a debugger 00:18:15 it tells you what line it's executing 00:18:18 and lets you tell it what to do 00:18:24 graphical-ness? none 00:18:43 it's nice seeing it highlight the current row in the code" 00:18:45 ! 00:18:56 it does, actually, with gdb 00:18:58 it shows you 00:19:04 it even gives you a line number 00:19:12 you see the file name, line number, and source code of the line 00:19:18 there's no "gdb" in cygwin anyway 00:19:24 yes, there, is 00:19:26 i'll try searching 00:19:33 $ gdb --version 00:19:33 GNU gdb 6.5.50.20060706-cvs (cygwin-special) 00:19:36 well, but not built-in 00:19:43 nothign in cygwin is built in!! 00:19:48 the whole POINT is that you run the setup to add stuff!! 00:19:50 gcc is 00:19:59 yes, because it's essential 00:20:03 but everything else is not 00:20:08 yeah 00:20:18 EVERY peice of software cygwin has - almost everything - is not by default 00:20:21 you run the setup 00:20:23 choose a category 00:20:24 tick the program 00:20:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:20:26 click next 00:20:27 it installs it 00:20:28 you use it 00:20:46 you happen to know where it is there? 00:20:46 :) 00:20:51 in Devel, obviously 00:21:18 it's only obvious if you don't read that as "Jewel" 00:21:33 haha 00:21:38 When I'm just looking for a specific program, I always set it to the full view. 00:21:47 The categories are often confusing. 00:21:51 GregorR: you use windows too? :( 00:22:02 Hell no. 00:22:06 * ehird` has to right now unfortunately 00:22:12 But in the exceedingly rare occasion when I'm forced to, I install Cygwin. 00:22:21 but nevertheless some sort of UNIX-based OS shall save the day! 00:22:30 it is a long story why i am not on the iMac over there right now 00:22:31 :P 00:23:39 i'll install linux once i get a new computer, although i'm starting to hate windows so much it might happen before that... 00:23:50 haha, oklopol, this is unexpected for you 00:23:56 i thought you hated open source. :p 00:24:17 1. i don't *hate* it, i'm more afraid of it. 00:24:17 (i might get an old thinkpad laptop, put debian and xmonad on... i could get one cheap) 00:24:22 oklopol: haha :-) 00:24:26 2. i've never liked windows 00:25:17 So. Gregor is getting a video watch. Isn't that cool?!?!?!?!!? :P 00:25:27 wrist watch? 00:25:33 Yup 00:25:51 um 00:25:52 what 00:25:54 um 00:25:55 does it have wifi 00:25:56 ?? 00:26:03 and can it run a browser? 00:26:04 if so 00:26:07 i have only one thing to say 00:26:08 CGI:IRC. 00:26:12 GregorR: what does that mean? 00:26:17 *EXPLOSION* 00:28:27 It means it's a watch that can play videos :) 00:28:35 (And MP3s, which is why I bought it :P ) 00:28:46 stfu greasy nerd kid with glasses 00:28:59 GregorR: ok but DOES IT HAVE WIFI 00:29:18 ehird`: No, it is not a palmtop on your wrist :P 00:29:26 damnit 00:29:33 because a watch running cgi:irc 00:29:36 would be beyond the boundries of cool 00:29:50 lol 00:29:58 No, it is not the GNU/Linux watch from IBM :P 00:30:06 damnit!! stop giving me IDEAS! 00:30:21 imagine a watch, that ran a real window manager 00:30:24 and ran real X11 programs 00:30:30 and had a real computer 00:30:30 but 00:30:34 it was a fucking WATCH 00:30:37 and it goes on your WRIST 00:30:44 ehird`: possibly the most useless thing ever? 00:30:48 lament: AWESOME 00:30:53 GregorR: why the hell would you want to watch videos on your watch? 00:31:05 lament: I don't, I want an MP3 player on my watch :P 00:31:11 maybe even your FUCKING WRIST if you do odd things with your wrist... 00:31:14 meh 00:31:32 lament: But all the MP3 player watches that didn't play videos had physical analog timepieces (wtf?) 00:31:53 timepieces :O 00:31:54 hah 00:32:05 GregorR: i am now, sometime, going to make a linux watch which runs X11 00:32:15 * oklopol learned a new word 00:32:17 it will also have a flip-out mini keyboard 00:32:17 ehird`: Go talk to IBM. They already made one. 00:32:23 DOES THEIRS HAVE THE ABOVE? 00:32:32 GregorR: so you bought it for the mp3 player. Does that mean you'll plug headphones into your wrist watch? 00:32:35 does theirs have a screen relatively big?! (but still wrist-fitting) 00:32:38 lament: Yup. 00:32:43 ehird`: Google. 00:32:49 GregorR: shush 00:32:51 mine would be better 00:32:53 because, mine would like 00:32:55 run bash 00:32:55 and stuf 00:32:56 f 00:32:58 by default. 00:33:02 and, like, it would be cool. 00:33:03 yeah. 00:33:09 ehird`: cool it would not be. 00:33:12 the watch would be SCRIPTABLE 00:33:13 <__< 00:33:21 GregorR: why not just get an mp3 player? 00:33:29 and you could CUSTOMIZE THE DISPLAY 00:33:29 it's lame 00:33:30 and add a BACKGROUND 00:33:33 >:( 00:33:35 and analog clocks pwn digital ones 00:33:49 lament: Because my PDA watch broke so I don't have anything nerdy in watch form factor? And the price was right. 00:34:03 PDA WATCH????? 00:34:07 ok, now the idea is fully formed 00:34:10 i will make the WATCHPUTER 00:34:17 GregorR: ah, so it's a status symbol as a geek? 00:34:18 it will have a fold-out tiny-keyboard 00:34:24 a rather big screen for a watch 00:34:28 wi-fi and bluetooth 00:34:32 laaame 00:34:33 customizable watch display 00:34:35 alarm 00:34:38 lament: There ya go ^^ 00:34:41 and IT WILL RUN X11 APPS 00:34:45 i win 00:34:52 ehird`: girls will love it! 00:34:53 *ahem* ehird`: STFU 00:35:03 >:( 00:35:21 remember those watches with a calculator? 00:35:28 braces, pocket protector, and a watch with a calculator? 00:35:53 HEWW YEAHS! 00:35:53 http://www.watchluxus.com/brands/nivrel/erotic_watches/erotica 00:35:57 erotic watches? 00:36:07 i have a pocket protector :D 00:36:53 bsmntbombdood: My video watch playing extremely low-resolution porn will be far higher-quality erotica :P 00:37:09 what is the resolution on it? 00:37:11 8x8? 00:37:16 128x128 00:37:23 ahahaha 00:37:35 But it's bigger than QQVGA! :P 00:37:35 that's not bad 00:37:48 hahaha 00:37:49 i think that's what my palm had 00:37:56 someone modernized the old emacs backronym 00:37:58 For a watch, it's pretty respectable. I downscaled a few videos and they're watchable *shrugs* 00:37:59 it's enough for reading books 00:38:09 Eight Megabytes and Constantly Swapping -> Eighty Megabytes and Constantly Swapping 00:38:35 ehird`: HEY! That's called PROGRESS. 00:38:39 ;) 00:38:41 * ehird` gose now 00:38:42 goes 00:39:02 i need to buy a watch, but i can't find one that looks decent 00:39:25 i want a watch 00:39:29 but a mechanical one 00:40:05 none of this stupid video-mp3-naked-woman crap 00:40:47 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:41:09 Pocketwatch! 00:41:23 If you won't go tech, go classique! 00:41:43 i want a chinese kid for a watch 00:42:03 imagine it ticking once a second! 00:42:09 a pocket watch would work 00:46:31 pocket watches are awfully inconvenient, I already have a cellphone in my pocket that tells the time just fine 00:47:17 i wonder if you could learn to run a clock in your head 00:47:46 that'd be pretty awesum 00:48:08 not anybody "normal" 00:48:19 and not with any accuracy 00:48:48 i'd never carry a cell phone though 00:49:14 bsmntbombdood: it's not that bad 00:49:18 i don't consider myself normal enough not to try that, i'll begin training tomorrow 00:49:31 oklopol: tell me how it goes 00:49:46 haha, you think i can actually keep a routine going ;) 00:50:01 well, i've managed to do that sometimes, but it's very unlikely 00:50:10 although that would be an extremely cool thing to try 00:50:33 bsmntbombdood: cellphones are actually ridiculously convenient 00:50:50 suuuure 00:50:52 if you don't want to be bothered, you can always just turn it off 00:51:14 what if i don't want to be tracked by the feds? 00:51:21 um 00:51:25 turn it off 00:51:26 move to Canada? 00:51:27 i don't need to call anyone either 00:51:53 wish i didn't either 00:52:38 hmm... i hope i get sdl working tomorrow, then i have a good 24 hours to code my circuit thingie :P 00:53:21 it would be easy enough to keep time by yourself in the foreground 00:54:12 hmm, i think i'll try timing a minute until i can always do that, then move to longer intervals 00:54:26 i usually get 57..1:03 when i try 00:55:27 hmm... doesn't really sound possible not to have *any* error, and it accumulates quite fast :| 00:56:07 perhaps i'll put a machine under my skin to gimme a little shock every 5 seconds 00:56:17 then i'll just learn to count them subconsciously 00:56:32 easy as killing a pie 00:56:41 consider a machine on your wrist that tells you the time 00:57:04 a friend has a binary watch, that's kinda neat 00:57:19 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/ 00:57:44 i've been thinking of getting one myself 00:58:23 but i don't like wearing a watch 00:58:47 heh, http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/6dc1/ 00:59:36 certainly not worth $600, though 00:59:49 bsmntbombdood: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/74ce/ 01:00:04 bsmntbombdood: get that one :) 01:00:17 Who the hell would buy that for $600 ... 01:00:48 * lament considers actually buying the slide rule watch 01:02:03 Someone short a real slide rule. 01:02:11 lament: It would be amusing to show that to somebody when they asked for the time ^^ 01:02:26 the slide rule one, or the earth one? 01:02:34 The slide-rule one. 01:02:45 seems to look fine 01:02:47 It has so many numbers and hands, if you didn't know most of them aren't involved in telling time you would just be confused :) 01:02:50 anybody can tell time from it 01:03:01 eh, the hour and minute hands are obvious 01:03:53 oh, i see, that watch is specifically for pilots 01:04:09 hence the unit conversions 01:04:40 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/954e/ <-- the watch I'm getting (for about half the price from a different site) 01:05:12 looks decent 01:05:20 not sure if it qualifies as a "watch" 01:05:52 When you're not watching a video, it displays the time :P 01:05:56 ahhhhhhh 01:05:56 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/706f/ 01:06:06 I. Want. 01:06:11 That's pretty cool. 01:06:25 the only problem is that it's inaccurate 01:06:32 since you can't adjust latitude 01:06:43 it's fixed to the average latitude in the states 01:06:51 I wonder what "Japanese movement" means ... 01:06:53 will be a little optimistic for canada 01:07:03 still i'm seriously considering buying that 01:09:24 it's probably completely dark at night, though 01:09:31 "Swiss "Super Luminescent" dial that glows for 2-3 hours" 01:09:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:11:38 Ironic if you can't read your starmap at night :P 01:12:33 yeah... screw it :) 01:21:48 GregorR: can you say "ugly"? 01:22:43 bsmntbombdood: Sure. "bsmntbombdood" 01:22:53 hrrr 01:26:07 oh damn 01:26:17 don't touch your dick while there's hot sauce on your fingers 01:26:26 (unless you're in the mood for that sort of thing) 01:36:15 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 01:37:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:37:14 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:45:45 GregorR: With watches, foo movement typically means that the mechanics were designed in foo. 01:45:58 For example, "Swiss movement" means that it's a Swiss watch. 01:46:06 (take with a grain of salt, though) 02:00:39 I was sitting in my friend's room this afternoon, watching him play minesweeper, and I found myself with a tremendous urge to play the game myself. Unfortunately, I didn't have minesweeper on my computer... 02:00:47 ... so I went ahead and wrote it: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/mines/ 02:01:31 this is an example of why being a programmer is awesome 02:03:04 now I'm tempted to implement all the other games Windows 95 came with- jezzball, tetra-vex, tetris, ski-free, chip's challenge, rodent's revenge... 02:04:04 The question is, are you any good at Minesweeper? 02:04:13 fairly good 02:04:29 better than shadowarts. :) 02:06:38 Time? 02:06:50 I didn't add that feature 02:07:36 XD 02:09:14 I have more fun with really dense minefields than with speedruns 02:14:42 I should create a reality -TV show in which the survival of the contestants relies on their ability to play minesweeper 02:18:43 i'd watch it not 02:20:06 maybe the audience would get to vote on the placement of some of the mines 02:27:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:28:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:38:50 Why does Darcs have to be in Haskell? 02:39:07 it's happy there 02:39:12 For maximum obnoxiousity :) 02:39:16 Checking out Plof? :P 02:39:45 I get the feeling that it's been an OS install since I've messed with Plof. 02:41:25 GHC takes forever to build. 02:54:16 Hahaha 02:54:40 {urpmi,apt-get install,yum install,yourfavoritepackagemanager install} darcs 03:02:29 emerge -av darcs 03:02:42 And so, we return to GHC taking forever to build. 03:04:35 bah 03:04:37 i should do something 03:06:13 -!- importantshock has joined. 03:26:59 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 05:16:02 -!- staplegun_ has joined. 05:21:40 hihi 05:21:49 hello 05:35:58 -!- staplegun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 06:06:30 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:08:15 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 06:16:04 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:18:00 http://pastebin.com/m5bd0d3f4 06:18:08 What the *fuck* was I thinking back then? 06:19:41 what where they thinking with that color scheme? 06:20:32 Good question. 06:31:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:51:19 "i'd be scared too if my dick was that small" 06:51:21 ^^ spam 07:17:21 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 07:28:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:46:45 -!- RedDak has joined. 09:02:43 minesweeper sucks in that there's always at least one fifty-fifty decision, where you simply cannot know where the mines are 09:08:21 played one expert just now, had to do 2 50-50 decision 09:08:23 *S 09:08:54 hmm... 296 :< 09:09:03 my skillz are dead 09:43:11 RodgerTheGreat: i love it how you can check where the mines are if you're not sure ;) 10:37:30 -!- EgoBot has joined. 10:37:39 -!- GregorR has joined. 10:57:04 -!- jix has joined. 11:13:42 You know what's lame about writing signature programs in C? Needing #include lines for standard library headers. 11:27:02 -!- Fa1r has left (?). 11:32:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:57:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:21:14 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:53:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:56:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:01:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:11:33 I've definitely got past the point of diminishing returns on ehird`'s signature challenge. As noted before, the #include lines really screw it up. http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/siersig.c 13:11:51 damn 13:11:53 that's impressive 13:12:36 Thanks. 13:12:41 :-) 13:12:51 * ehird` goes and checks logs to see if anyone else submitted... i doubt it 13:12:59 you probably win by default :-) 13:13:50 i think includes aren't counted, pikhq's quicksort didn't have any and it used lib functions :-) 13:14:36 Warning...make sure line 6 contains three characters of value 128. I've found that this program can be damaged by copying and pasting it. 13:14:46 i wget'd it and it works 13:14:47 :-) 13:14:53 Great :) 13:15:14 hehe, 20000 iterations... chaos game isn't a very efficient algorithm, is it? :-) 13:15:27 Nope. 13:15:53 (Didn't do a real test...but 9<<9 is not enough) :) 13:18:48 ircbrose.com is down? :S 13:19:30 browse 13:22:29 * ehird` tries tunes.org 13:23:05 03:13:42 You know what's lame about writing signature programs in C? Needing #include lines for standard library headers. 13:23:16 no C sig program i've seen has them, so :-) 13:27:32 anyway you win by default, haha 13:27:39 you'd probably win anyway, though 13:27:50 subtracting a string from a pointer? crazy 13:28:41 I didn't do that :) 13:28:49 ok well whatever you did ;) 13:49:36 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:50:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:52:38 -!- ehird` has left (?). 13:52:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:30:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner"). 15:08:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:12:35 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:26:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 15:33:09 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:49:03 -!- puzzlet has quit ("leaving"). 15:56:15 ttm: If you don't include the header, then the prototype defaults to int foo(int,...); Also, C functions don't care *too* much about the right type getting passed. 15:56:46 crazy program, though, i still say 15:56:46 :-) 15:57:06 Besides which, putchar, srand, rand, and time all, in effect, take ints, anyways. 15:57:21 Otherwise, that's a fairly nice piece of work. 15:57:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:57:48 Wait. . . We've got cristofd in here? w00ts! 15:58:08 ttm = cristofd 15:58:08 :P 15:58:22 (I didn't know that until this morning, though, I must mention, when I saw the URL :P) 15:58:22 So I gathered. 16:17:07 -!- jamesstanley has joined. 16:17:30 -!- Lyucit has joined. 16:17:50 um 16:17:53 -!- Lyucit has left (?). 16:22:53 -!- Lyucit has joined. 16:22:57 -!- Lyucit has left (?). 16:23:12 bye 16:24:12 next os i install i'm going to compile it all 16:24:12 no distro 16:24:13 bye 16:24:17 whoops 16:24:18 wrong channel 16:24:21 -!- jamesstanley has left (?). 16:27:41 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:27:51 -!- jix has joined. 16:40:51 -!- bartw has joined. 16:43:32 heh. 17:03:14 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:08:59 http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ 17:09:17 LFS is retarded =) 17:09:47 because, rule 1. you're not competetent enough to update it, keep it secure, and working all by yourself, rule 2. see rule 1 17:11:40 it is not retarded 17:11:40 no, UR RETARDED 17:11:40 -!- bartw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:12:16 * ehird` rolls eyes 17:14:15 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 17:21:37 HOLY SHIT 17:21:38 NOTE TO SELF 17:21:51 when in msys do not type rm -rf c:/Program\ Files then hit enter instead of tab 17:24:31 in case anyone was stumped by the "find the differences" from a while back, here's the solution: http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1193502210-diffsol.png 17:24:50 i thought they were identical? 17:25:40 did you actually click the link? 17:25:50 no :P 17:26:08 anyway i don't have the link to the differences themselves so what's the point 17:26:16 then you're missing the ENTIRE joke 17:26:21 possibly! 17:27:24 but i can't remember the differences image, so 17:27:27 -!- Worldo has joined. 17:34:38 -!- Worldo has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )"). 17:51:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:51:55 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:15:02 RodgerTheGreat: can you link the ftd from last week? 18:27:35 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1192513276-diff2.png 18:29:07 oh, now i get it 18:29:07 hah 18:29:25 well.. it's not really that funny 18:29:47 but i get it 18:30:11 i may have gotten it too. 18:30:45 oklopol: the images are 100% identical, but the solution has an image with many differences 18:30:56 i realized that 18:31:01 that's the joke 18:32:41 wow, gtk isn't as shitty as i thought 18:48:44 sure afunny joke 19:06:26 if kazakstan is anything like what it is in borat, why don't i live there 19:42:48 i still can't comprehend ttm's sierpinski program :-) 19:42:50 it's an enigma! 19:45:27 Yeah? 19:45:49 What part? 19:46:04 i think maybe i'm approaching my reading of it from the wrong direction 19:46:05 :-) 19:46:13 :) 19:46:50 hmm you could shave a few bytes off by removing unneccessary ;s :P 19:46:58 e.g. ;} -> }, ;) -> ) 19:49:19 Not legal C. 19:49:39 i know that ;) -> ) is 19:49:43 for (x;y;z) is perfectly valid 19:49:50 i might be wrong about {ab} but i think i'm right 19:50:33 Most of those in the program are "for(x;y;)" which is valid, but "for(x;y)" is not. 19:50:46 ahhh, i see 19:52:13 And in C, ; is a terminator not a separator. I'm actually trying not to rely on GCC-specific quirks--besides, GCC won't even allow these. 19:52:34 If it were Javascript I would have taken them out :) 19:53:32 I did shorten it a bit more though. 20:01:39 oklopol: it's not 20:01:58 bsmntbom1dood: [everybody gasps] 20:04:00 bsmntbom1dood: i know 20:04:18 hmm 20:04:26 what ehird` said. 20:05:10 still haven't gotten sdl to work :D 20:05:11 Okay. Breaking the lines in less intuitive places now. 20:05:20 ttm: oh no 20:05:30 Relax, most of it's still in the same order. 20:05:32 :) 20:05:35 ;) 20:05:50 tried dev-cpp, it gives a few linker errors, i've found multiple sources that tell how it's fixed, but nothing helps :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 20:05:58 perhaps some day 20:06:02 It's now four lines even with the stdlib which we NEED for the value of RAND_MAX. 20:06:11 If we want this puppy vaguely portable. 20:06:23 oklopol: why don't you just install mingw? it has an installer :P 20:06:32 i have mingw 20:06:34 and you have no confusing cygwin package manager, you just compile the software your self 20:06:35 oh 20:06:38 dev-cpp just uses mingw 20:06:39 you see 20:06:41 anyway 20:06:41 I'm also hesitating to replace the character constants with their ASCII values, again for portability. 20:06:44 err yeah 20:06:49 when i said mingw i meant mingw+msys 20:06:49 and i want an ide 20:06:54 yeah 20:06:58 but dev-cpp is kinda monolithic 20:07:06 is there a better one? 20:07:11 ttm: name one platform used today that isn't ascii and could compile that code? :p 20:07:23 oklopol: yeah! EDItilla! but that's my editor, that isn't done yet. damn. 20:07:29 oklopol: but when it is done, it will be awesome! 20:07:43 What's "today"? It should compile and run correctly almost anywhere ANSI C is accepted. 20:07:47 i'm not sure what you mean by monolithic, but the only problem with dev-cpp is i can't get sdl to compile. 20:07:55 ttm: :-P 20:10:39 Of course, if the C code itself were translated to another character set, you'd have to reset three characters to whatever is 128 in that set. 20:11:00 well then 20:11:01 :P 20:19:11 ehird`: i couldn't get gcc to compile c++, even though the man said it will automatically compile .cpp files as c++ 20:19:21 what might the reason for this be? 20:20:31 because you need to link it 20:20:33 use g++ instead 20:21:19 hmm i see 20:21:23 g++? 20:21:28 instead of "gcc" 20:21:29 use "g++" 20:21:32 it's part of gcc 20:21:36 it compiles c++ programs 20:21:40 ALTERNATIVELY 20:21:42 don't use c++ 20:22:44 cool, it worked 20:23:24 hmm... so... i should try installing sdl to what next? 20:23:29 mingw? 20:23:40 i already have it on dev-cpp, isn't that the same thing? :) 20:23:54 i guess 20:23:57 :| 20:24:34 dev-cpp won't link it... should i try mingw without it? 20:24:49 i don't get how this can be so hard 20:25:03 because you're doing it wrong. 20:25:17 1. don't compile sdl yourself on windows 20:25:17 2. see 1 20:25:17 3. don't compile it with an ide 20:25:22 if it's easy, it can't be done wrong 20:25:27 yes it can 20:25:41 err... i'm not compiling the actual sdl, i'm trying to compile a program that includes sdl 20:26:26 do you have sdl installed and it in your linker settings 20:26:30 yeah 20:26:34 what is the error 20:27:20 undefined reference to '__cpu_features_init' 20:27:31 you fucked up your sdl compile 20:27:32 undefined reference to 'SDL_strlcopy' 20:28:02 i just put the sdl files in the folder they belong to 20:28:08 you did it wrong 20:28:15 perhaps 20:30:16 http://gpwiki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7037&sid=696456490c4f83d2627d03be5ad924c7 i followed the explanation here 20:32:02 C:\Dev-cpp\bin ... SDL.dll 20:32:02 C:\Dev-cpp\include\SDL ... allSDL.H files 20:32:02 C:\Dev-cpp\lib ... lib SDL.la ... libSDL.dll.a ... libSDLmain.a 20:32:03 from there 20:32:05 check those files are there 20:32:12 i did 20:32:55 i did exactly what hugh says there 20:33:09 then ask somewhere where people know 20:33:10 also regarding what he says later 20:33:10 like, you know, #sdl 20:33:23 i guess i should 20:33:37 i've already given up hope, just bothering you for fun i guess. 20:33:41 but i'll try 21:55:24 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:08:07 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 22:10:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:29:08 pikhq: building ghc from source is not recommended unless you are modifying it 22:29:18 oerjan: pff 22:29:22 oerjan: i build ghc from source 22:29:44 a build I compiled myself will always taste sweeter than a third-party binary :-) 22:29:52 i'm talking about the speed (btw i don't have ghc myself) 22:31:18 hm 22:31:21 speed for what 22:31:26 compilign it or ghc performance itself? 22:31:41 if latter, i'm pretty sure optimization is on by default ;) 22:31:46 compiling it, i take 22:31:48 if former, pff, i can wait an hour every now and then 22:31:54 ok - a few hours 22:31:55 but still 22:31:57 :P 22:34:45 oerjan: You can't beat sense into Gentoo'rs. 22:34:52 oerjan: It just can't be done. 22:35:04 heh 22:35:13 gentoo is crazy 22:35:19 i admit that 22:36:35 i understand that even Gentoo needs a ghc binary to start the process 22:36:49 since ghc is written in haskell 22:37:37 i've always wondered about that... what would happen if everyone who hosted a binary of ghc suddenly died? 22:37:46 you'd have to manually port ghc to some other language and compile ghc with it 22:37:58 not a very secure roadmap :-) 22:38:14 what would happen if everyone who hosted a binary of gcc died? 22:38:34 can't gcc compile itself with another compiler as a bootstrap? 22:38:49 doesn't it use #ifdef __GNUC__ for the gcc-only bits? 22:41:53 Can't other Haskells run/compile GHC? 22:42:02 no 22:42:05 it uses ghc extensions 22:42:13 Well, never mind then :P 22:42:14 (hilarious, isn't it?) 22:42:24 hehehehe 22:42:26 that's funny 22:42:33 i think i might go and write a compiler by banging on my keyboard repeatedly 22:42:48 when someone claims it could never compile anything, i'll ask them if they'd compiled it with itself first 22:43:16 for anyone asking information about the language, i'd tell them that the implementation is the spec 22:43:29 you would also be ignored 22:43:35 ;) 22:44:02 unless you were rms, in which case thousands of greasy nerds around the world would hack nonstop untill they made it work 22:44:13 and then they would praise you for your genius work 22:44:39 "first we deleted all of it, then we added a text editor" 22:46:47 linus once said that if you went over 4 levels of indentation, your code is broken and we should fix it... who's gonna write the program to analyze how many times it happens and where in C code and run it on the kernel? 22:49:22 oh it happens a lot 22:49:32 was it linus who said that? 22:49:41 yeah, in his coding guidelines for... the linux kernel 22:49:56 *clap* *clap* *clap* 22:52:16 Coding guidelines are just that: guidelines. That just means that if you're that deeply indented, you ought to think about whether that's appropriate or if you should refactor. 22:52:28 well said 22:52:39 his literal quote was 22:52:46 "your code is broken and you should fix it" 22:52:49 that's more of a commandment ;) 22:53:24 oerjan: It's Gentoo building GHC, not me. ;) 22:53:31 hm 22:53:33 it's actually 3 levels 22:53:35 "The answer to that is that if you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed anyway, and should fix your program. " 22:53:37 WTF? In the power outage I had list night, my Gaim lost its profile??? 22:53:52 source http://pantransit.reptiles.org/prog/CodingStyle.html 22:54:09 3 levels isn't much 22:54:24 indeed, but i have found those guidelines to be very good for c 22:54:44 "First off, I'd suggest printing out a copy of the GNU coding standards, and not read it. Burn them, it's a great symbolic gesture." is the only thing i follow /religiously/ though :-) 22:54:52 ehird`: IIRC, ghc includes a small Haskell compiler in C, which bootstraps GHC itself. . . 22:54:58 pikhq: no, it doesn't 22:55:00 void gnuguidelines() 22:55:01 { 22:55:04 return THEYROCK; 22:55:05 } 22:55:08 its compilation process downloads a bootstrap 22:55:12 GregorR: die 22:55:26 I've just always thought the half-indentation is amusing :P 22:55:37 so THEYROCK is satirical? 22:55:38 good 22:55:40 you are saved 22:55:53 func (args); has to be the most braindead thing ever 22:55:57 you can almost hear rms going 22:56:11 "i wish i used one of those lisp machine thingymagics instead of this you-nix, i liked those parens" 22:56:52 "Thingymagics" sounds hawt. 22:57:00 haha 23:00:13 GregorR: Not quite. 23:00:15 void 23:00:19 gnuguidelines () 23:00:20 { 23:00:23 *snaps* 23:00:24 return THEYROCK; 23:00:24 } 23:00:38 You didn't do the spacing right - the braces are supposed to be half-indented. 23:00:58 Not when defining a function. 23:01:06 pikhq is right 23:04:06 i haaate scripting languages 23:04:07 OK, so I don't know the GNU coding conventions :P 23:04:18 they are all terrible 23:04:28 python is slow, lua's "end"s are ugly (but it is very fast, more so with luajit)... 23:04:47 perl is slow, unmaintainable and ugly, and yeck (this will change in perl 6, though) 23:05:01 * GregorR <3 Plof :( 23:05:16 plof doesn't really look usable for day to day stuff to me 23:05:18 just saying 23:05:24 It certainly isn't yet :P 23:05:36 it's just a bit too foreign imho 23:05:44 although it is interesting 23:05:48 I might contribute a C interpreter :-) 23:06:01 Well, don't do it now :P 23:06:06 (since D can be pretty slow, etc., and language implementation can be quite low level) 23:06:06 Plof3 is entirely different from Plof2. 23:06:16 you still have not shown me any example Plof3 code 23:06:35 Any example of Plof2 code is also an example of Plof3 code at the moment (I haven't worked on the user language yet) 23:06:38 It's the guts that are different. 23:07:16 how functional is plof? 23:07:24 haskell functional not usable functional 23:07:32 GregorR: I could in either GNU coding standards or K&R standards. . . 23:07:46 pikhq: you use the gnu standards? D: 23:07:50 pikhq: you shall be killed 23:07:57 ehird`: Well, it's certainly not pure :P. Functions are first-class and closures etc are possible, but it's definitely an imperative language. 23:07:59 i hate your code and wish for its demise 23:08:17 GregorR: show me a factorial with "reduce" 23:08:58 GregorR: Have we *done* reduce? 23:09:18 I don't really have an implementation of it, no, but it's certainly implementable. 23:09:31 no reduce/map by default? 23:09:33 next! ;) 23:09:50 There's barely a standard library at all. 23:09:57 I'm a language designer, not a standard library designer. 23:10:15 bah, ok, show me a recursive factorial i guess :| 23:11:00 fact = (x):{ if(:{x == 1}, {x}, {x * fact(x-1)}) }; 23:11:12 is that plof? 23:11:16 Yuh 23:11:17 ok, so you have to use the lambda to define a function 23:11:24 Yup. 23:11:27 that's not ideal IMO, even a little syntactic sugar would be nice 23:11:29 just imo 23:11:34 my suggestion: 23:11:38 fact(x) = { ... }; 23:11:48 Blech. 23:11:49 X(Y) = { ... } -> X = (Y):{ ... } 23:11:53 it's a tiny transformation 23:11:58 and a lot nicer loooking imo 23:12:07 also, it still makes "sense" - you're telling it what X(Y) means 23:12:09 But how do you differentiate between thick and thin functions? 23:12:14 what 23:12:22 (x){ ... } != (x):{ ... }; 23:12:25 * GregorR intends to fix thick and thin functions at some point :P 23:12:29 what's the difference, pikhq 23:12:31 * pikhq would hope so 23:12:57 ehird`: Return semantics. Thin functions return from their associated thick function. It allows all blocks to be functions. It is a feature that will go away :P 23:13:13 It's like methods-vs-blocks in Smalltalk. 23:13:14 It's how "if" and such are implemented ATM. 23:13:18 i do not understand 23:13:43 if(:{x}, {return x}); 23:14:03 ehird`: If is a function, you pass it three functions. But, if one of the functions you pass it returns, then the function calling if returns. That makes imperative programming more comfortable, since it does what an imperative programmer expects. 23:14:37 GregorR: yes, i gathered that if was a function. and i get it now 23:14:38 hmm 23:14:42 The {return x} function returns x *through* the if, and through the stack, until it returns from a thick function. . . 23:14:42 that sounds like a VERY ugly hack :-) 23:14:47 It is, indeed. 23:14:56 ehird`: It is. I painted myself into a corner. It will not be around by the time Plof3 is finalized. 23:14:59 It works, but *man* it's ugly. 23:15:11 how is it implemented? please tell me instead of just overriding return, you set the thin function's closure to the enclosing thick one's 23:15:18 so how do you resolve it anyway in plof3? 23:16:02 ehird`: It's just an implementation detail of how 'return' is implemented - it pops up the call stack until it finds a thick function. 23:16:18 Anyway, please, ignore thick-vs-thin, IT'S GOING AWAY 23:16:19 :P 23:16:42 Yes but how do you resolve the issue? ;) 23:16:47 OH 23:16:53 I don't have a resolution yet. 23:17:01 My point is I won't be satisfied until I do ^^ 23:17:04 hah 23:17:20 i'm not sure what my perfect language would be 23:17:25 it'd probably include runtime-editable syntax 23:17:36 So far, so Plof3 :P 23:18:08 that is, it'll have a syntax for defining - using the language itself with some sugar for the definitions - new syntax, which can do arbitary transformations - replace code with some other code, execute code at expand-time, etc 23:18:09 also 23:18:14 an ability to modify previous syntax 23:18:15 all of it. 23:18:27 If you hate yourself, you could implement longjmp, Gregor. :p 23:18:40 in this way, the "if" syntax would just be sugar for calling if_ (or similar) 23:19:16 ehird`: FYI, you're still defining Plof3. 23:19:21 hah 23:19:28 ehird`: Plof3 is a small stack-language with a runtime parser sitting on top of it. 23:19:36 can plof3 handle INDENTATION-BASED SYNTAX? 23:19:45 because it sends spaces at the beginning of lines as INDENT tokens?! 23:19:55 (and of course DEDENT tokens) 23:20:06 I believe it could. 23:20:10 Tokenization is also defined at runtime. 23:20:18 (python does this too, so basically all you need to do is change "{" to INDENT and "}" to DEDENT) 23:20:33 Plof3's normal user language would just ignore all whitespace, but you can define one that doesn't. 23:20:53 ok well as i can see it you have two seperate languages 23:21:01 stack-based-metalanguage and Plof3 23:21:05 Basically. 23:21:18 when you say Plof3 you really mean the latter because Plof3 is really entirely defined as that, since the other language is basically unrelateds 23:21:24 so these aren't plof3 features 23:21:33 GregorR: BTW, Plof2 *does* have map. 23:21:35 it's like calling brainfuck with a c interface having all the features of C :-) 23:21:56 (random collection).map(); ;) 23:22:16 ehird`: The grammar engine is entirely modifiable within Plof3 code. If you want to change Plof3's grammar, it's all available to you. 23:22:26 meh 23:22:40 * GregorR has no idea what your complaint is *shrugs* 23:23:08 var foo = new(List);foo.map((x){return({x+1});}); 23:23:28 pikhq: I did implement map in my collections? Well, ehird`: there ya go! :P 23:23:41 I'm so focused on Plof3, Plof2 is becoming a distant memory. 23:24:43 "and here in the corner of the channel you have GregorR, who actually constructed a nearly usable language called Plof2 before he went off the deep end with his theories." 23:25:54 i might implement my nice language some time, but without the crazy syntax definitions 23:26:33 i'll make it fast (so you can run reasonably complex programs with it without being much slower than C - for sufficiently large values of "without being much slower") and bind a few libraries to it 23:26:52 the problem with most of my langugae ideas is that they don't work well on a single line 23:26:57 indentation-based blocks, etc 23:27:18 and since one of my goals is to implement a language i find nice, and write an irc bot in it, with daemons programmable in it, that kind of sucks :-) 23:28:50 so heh 23:29:56 in fact 23:30:14 i can't think of any block syntax that works well on one line apart from lisps s-exprsessions :| 23:30:33 you could borrow haskell's layout <-> { ; } equivalence 23:31:21 right but c-style blocks are pretty ugly on one line 23:31:37 although the parse-error rule which allows you to leave out more { } may be a bit too hairy 23:31:49 if (x) { while (y) { a; b; c }; if (z) { 2 + 2 } } elseif (g) { ... } 23:31:53 uglyyyy and not readable on one line 23:31:56 and it certainly doesn't work with redefinable syntax 23:32:06 no redefinable syntax for this i think 23:32:07 :) 23:32:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:13 i guess i could implement if x (y) (z) as an alternate if syntax 23:34:19 but i hate two solutions for one problem in syntax 23:35:25 you could make all parentheses expandable into layout 23:35:35 i don't want to have layout though 23:35:36 :-) 23:36:16 um, layout = indentation-based blocks, in haskell 23:36:47 yes 23:36:52 i want some tangible syntax i think 23:41:54 GregorR: any suggestions, you being the crazy language guy? :P 23:42:55 Make it syntaxless. :p 23:43:00 excuse me? are you trying to insult everyone else in the channel? 23:43:11 oerjan: hahaha, i forgot this was #esoteric 23:43:22 pikhq: i actually have a language called syntaxless :p 23:44:31 is it really syntaxless? 23:44:44 jot is syntaxless 23:44:52 it has one lexical rule but no syntactical rules 23:44:53 so, yes 23:45:05 i don't know what you mean 23:45:11 (the lexical rule is "read any number of characters seperated by spaces, tabs or newlines") 23:45:20 syntactical rules would mean it has syntax like nesting, etc. 23:45:26 mine just has one lexical rule, which isn't really syntax 23:50:46 GregorR: but seriously :-) 23:56:48 pikhq: ok, you were talking about plof too. what about you? :P