2007-10-01: 00:00:00 @let primes = nubBy ((>1).gcd) [2..] 00:00:38 hehe 00:02:52 should have been @let primes = nubBy (((>1).).gcd) [2..] 00:04:00 -!- immibis_ has joined. 00:04:20 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:04:22 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 00:08:00 ah, i thought there was something weird in you saying that in here, but indeed, it must've been that error. 00:13:38 immibis: maybe it's the \ in [^ \$] 00:13:58 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:24:46 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:43:10 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:53:01 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:53:11 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:53:12 -!- molchuvka has joined. 01:07:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:25:43 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:39:26 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 02:02:20 -!- immibis has joined. 02:27:00 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:29:49 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 03:15:15 -!- molchuvka has quit. 03:33:36 -!- oklopl has joined. 03:35:11 -!- oklopol has quit (Nick collision from services.). 03:35:18 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklopol. 03:35:35 -!- oklopl has joined. 03:36:31 -!- oklopol has quit (Client Quit). 03:36:57 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:40:41 -!- oklopol has quit (Client Quit). 03:41:20 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklopol. 03:41:56 -!- oklopol has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"). 03:42:58 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:58:48 i've found another immibis 03:59:30 i think he's mating or something! 03:59:37 drinkity -> 04:12:24 oh no 04:12:34 :D 04:13:01 (i guess i might not have said that had i realized immibis was actually here, but i stand behind my statement xD) 04:45:01 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:18:10 oklopol: wtf? 05:19:04 -!- immibis_ has joined. 05:19:38 -!- immibis__ has joined. 05:20:00 -!- immibis_ has quit (Client Quit). 05:20:14 -!- immibis__ has quit (Client Quit). 06:48:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Man who stand in frond of car is tired. Man who stand behind car is exhausted."). 07:25:06 -!- molchuvka has joined. 07:46:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:47:03 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:32:50 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Easy as 3.1). 09:42:01 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:42:11 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:31:32 -!- joxy_ has joined. 11:55:44 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:02:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:31:51 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 12:32:28 hi 12:34:17 hey 13:20:27 -!- joxy_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:47:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:50:28 -!- jix has joined. 13:52:41 hi * 2 14:08:40 ackermann(hi, hi) 14:18:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:49:27 -!- molchuvka has joined. 15:59:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:04:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:04:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 16:32:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:46:06 we need to start our interprecompiler 18:05:56 ? 18:37:44 for IOCC 18:57:30 my idea was to create something like a polyglot in reverse 18:57:44 an interpreter and/or compiler for a bunch of different esolangs mooshed together 18:57:59 and then, naturally, cut to ribbons to obfuscate it 18:59:51 Hrm. 19:08:44 * SimonRC goes 19:38:12 brainfuck and unlambda are a good combination because they are so different 19:38:43 so if you combine code for them, it will probably be completely ununderstandable 19:49:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:51:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:03:44 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:08:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:08:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:14:43 i should write an unlambda interpreter regardless 20:23:29 If it's ununderstandable, does that mean it's derstandable? 20:26:50 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:33:18 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:34:30 RodgerTheGreat -- i will soon start writing a language which will have other languages as its sub-languages 20:35:47 and will allow for adding additional languages using program source code (i.e. compilation units -- programs -- will add languages, it is not a install procedure but a property of compiler) 20:37:00 that is, a program will be able to define one or more new sub-languages, and will be able to immediately use them 20:37:21 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:37:34 toboge? 21:15:12 forth can do that... kind of 21:15:35 i think you can just change how the parser works right in your code 21:15:48 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 21:22:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:23:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:23:58 what what 21:24:24 what molchuvka said just before you entered 21:26:02 jix yes i know forth do some degree 21:26:14 jix -- i plan even more 21:26:28 molchuvka: i think you can change everything with some forth systems 21:26:40 everything as in you can change the complete code of the parser compiler and everything 21:27:17 behavior and code of compiler will be influenced at runtime by program code --- i.e. program code will be able to have a complex impact on compiler behavior, interacting compiler and program code 21:27:47 jix yeah, i guess so 21:28:47 but well... my language will be free syntax, noone did this in forth 21:29:16 though it is possible, yes 21:30:21 also plof can do that 21:30:28 i have a lot of expirience with ll1 grammars 21:30:38 * molchuvka googling plof 21:30:47 GregorR's language 21:30:51 one of them, that is 21:31:14 i recall something similar on lambda the ultimate a while ago 21:31:51 also i plan that names are any objects 21:32:15 a language which could embed other languages' syntax 21:32:25 e.g. name can be rich text or image or animation or applet 21:32:29 i got a pocket pc, btw! i'm the coolest ever 21:32:59 now if i could just find an irc client, my life would be perfect 21:33:22 * molchuvka away 21:37:23 oklopol: I had a Pocket PC. Then I installed a real OS :P 21:40:25 i currently plan using Oberon-2 as a bootstrap language 21:40:53 molchuvka: you are wrong 21:40:55 forth is free syntax 21:41:05 ehird` I agree 21:41:22 where am I wrong? a quote please 21:45:42 GregorR: on that, or was that a joke i didn't get? :) 21:46:46 i have windows mobile on this, is it easy to get a nix in? 21:48:00 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:48:59 oklopol: Depends on what model. 21:49:01 oklopol: For most, no. 21:49:07 pocket loox something... 21:49:25 oklopol: Since there's literally zero architecture standardization, porting to one is pretty much a once-off task. 21:49:25 don't remember the exact model right now... 21:49:37 yeah 21:49:52 I'LL DO IT! 21:50:08 hmm... or then not. 21:53:22 lol- check this joke out: 21:53:25 "ternary ? those who know it : those who don't" 21:54:48 * oerjan thinks that joke has simply too many meta-levels 21:54:56 most likely 21:54:57 i'm not even sure it has a point 21:55:02 There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who know binary, and those who don't. 21:55:02 I think it has too few. 21:55:07 And those who confuse it with ternary. 21:55:09 ;) 21:55:14 It has no real meaning. 21:55:22 but this is the most likely place I know of for people to appreciate it 21:55:27 :P 21:55:32 MINE IS MORE FUNAY 21:55:50 There are infinity kinds of people in this world. Those who understand base-1 math, and those who don't. 21:55:51 USE YOUR NAY-FU 21:56:25 GregorR: I hate people who call base-1 unary. 21:56:40 If base 2 = 01, then base 1 = 0 21:56:54 thus everything is 0 in base 1 21:59:14 interesting point 21:59:15 everything is base 10. How do you write 8 in base-8? 10. How do you write 3 in base-3? 10. 22:00:19 RodgerTheGreat: you blew my mind! 22:00:46 as keanu reeves would say, "woah!" 22:00:53 ehird`: 0 is 0. Now increase by one, and you'll end up in an infinite loop trying to define digits. 22:01:02 :-) 22:01:16 Hence, infinity kinds of people. 22:01:24 RodgerTheGreat: Sam Hughes suggested that should be used for a first-contact comedy ;) 22:01:37 more like disaster 22:01:54 "infinity" in language refers to infinity as in a number > all other numbers, not infinite number-base expansion 22:02:00 which is why .9r is not infinity ;) 22:02:01 we should definitely use unary until we understand each other to some degree 22:02:17 yes 22:02:25 but, how should you transmit the message? 22:02:32 you can't do ASCII 22:02:35 you can't use english 22:02:38 you can't signal with binary 22:02:43 you can basically do nothing 22:02:59 without binary, there's nothing 22:03:05 gotta start somewhere 22:03:10 if an alien beams down to try and communicate with you 22:03:12 you're hopeless 22:03:23 (Assuming alien has no knowledge of humans) 22:03:40 reverse run-length encoding 22:31:05 -!- molchuvka has quit (No route to host). 22:37:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:32:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:53:55 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 2007-10-02: 00:44:42 -!- ihope_ has joined. 00:44:50 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 00:57:39 oerjan: Hey. 00:57:59 Out of *immense* curiosity, why are you no longer a first-class player in Agora? 01:01:05 Because, although you can store oerjan in a variable, you cannot pass oerjan as an argument to a function. 01:02:15 Variable, you say? How hideous. 01:02:16 LMAO 01:02:34 You don't see variables hanging around in math, do you? :-P 01:02:46 sure you do 01:03:01 they're just not _mutable_ variables 01:03:42 If they're not mutable, they're not very variable, are they? 01:04:05 They're variables because their value depends on unknown information (generally speaking). 01:05:20 I love how I've prevented oerjan from actually asking the original question :P 01:05:33 s/asking/answering/ >_O 01:05:49 Now preventing him further would require some creativity on your part. 01:06:06 You just provoked him. 01:06:20 How did I screw up "answering" for "asking"... 01:06:26 I mean, they're related, but yeesh X-D 01:06:28 Wait, did I just stifle him by saying you provoked him? Oh, wait, I provoked him by pointing out the stifling. 01:06:37 I'm just going to call it an incredibly intense typo. 01:06:39 They're related and start with a. Therefore, they're confusable. 01:06:58 Like apples and artichoke! 01:07:17 I don't think those are quite related enough. 01:07:34 They're both edible plant stuff. 01:07:38 People ask questions regularly, and they answer questions regularly, and in about the same circumstances. 01:07:49 oerjan? 01:07:51 They don't eat apples and artichokes in the same circumstances, generally. 01:08:11 You've never had my famous apple-glazed artichoke apparently. 01:08:37 Indeed. 01:09:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:11:18 * oerjan is realizing he may have to actually answer the question, despite GregorR's best attempts 01:11:30 Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 01:11:45 I did such a good job of driving the conversation away, after I had myself drug it back just for the /challenge/. 01:12:06 oh. sorry about that. 01:12:06 I jumped from asking/answering to apple-glazed artichokes! Give me /some/ credit! 01:13:09 I think I might actually have to try apple-glazed artichokes X-D 01:13:24 On the surface it sounds horrible, but I think it might be one of those flavor combos that shouldn't work, but does. 01:13:39 I'm reminded, once again, that this is Gregor. :) 01:13:50 "(GregorR) How did I screw up "answering" for "asking"..." <<< yep, the laws of physics prevent him to do that 01:13:59 whoops 01:14:00 bad quote :D 01:14:05 anyways. 01:14:33 Clrealy Im' incaapble fo tpyos. 01:15:12 Like ham and pineapple? 01:15:18 Mmm. 01:15:26 Or... hmm. 01:15:35 I'm trying to come up with a disgusting--oh, of course. 01:15:46 Salisbury steak with strawberry ice cream. 01:15:46 Deep fried oil? 01:16:08 pikhq: How do you deep-fry oil? That's just mixing some oil into some other oil ... 01:16:12 anyway, i lost interest, even cut down a lot on my internet use. of course the last year has been just one large setback... 01:16:14 I wouldn't call deep fried oil a disgusting flavor combination. 01:16:15 ihope: Is that /good/? 01:16:25 More just random. 01:16:29 Salisbury steak with strawberry ice cream? 01:16:33 I doubt it. 01:16:34 ihope: (Salistrawberry that is) 01:16:38 Heh 01:16:50 GregorR: Hmm. . . 01:16:58 Well, we could try to deep-fry lard. . . 01:17:21 'round these parts, we call that pork rinds. 01:17:24 And they're deeeeeeeeeeeeelicious. 01:17:45 That's fried pig *skin*, not fat. 01:18:20 You don't cut the fat off the skin when you make pork rinds. 01:18:26 True. 01:18:38 BTW, I'm more just being random. 01:18:49 * oerjan is trying to remember Delirium's ice cream flavor from Sandman 01:19:58 ah yes, giyf. "Green Mouse and Telephone Icecream" 01:22:12 Yum 01:23:39 Don't telephones contain Mercury? 01:23:45 (Either the planet or the Roman god; I don't care.) 01:24:09 How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! 01:25:21 so, how can we combine a brainfuck and unlambda interpreter? 01:25:52 Take advantage of the fact that stack-based = suffix notation. 01:26:09 Alternatively, 0x29A. 01:26:31 so? 01:27:00 ...what are you after? 01:27:40 obfuscation 01:29:58 Oh. 01:39:40 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:40 -!- zuzu_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:40 -!- oerjan has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- Robdgreat has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- Chton has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:41 -!- Eidolos has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:42 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:45 -!- tokigun has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- g4lt-sb100 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- sp3tt has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:57 -!- lament has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:42:34 -!- ihope has joined. 01:42:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:42:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:42:34 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 01:42:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:42:34 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:42:34 -!- oklopol has joined. 01:42:34 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 01:42:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:42:34 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:42:34 -!- g4lt-sb100 has joined. 01:42:34 -!- GregorR has joined. 01:42:34 -!- sp3tt has joined. 01:42:34 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 01:42:34 -!- sekhmet has joined. 01:42:34 -!- zuzu_ has joined. 01:42:34 -!- helios24 has joined. 01:42:34 -!- Eidolos has joined. 01:42:34 -!- Chton has joined. 01:42:34 -!- Overand has joined. 01:42:34 -!- tokigun has joined. 01:42:34 -!- lament has joined. 01:42:34 -!- SimonRC has joined. 01:42:34 -!- mtve has joined. 02:41:36 -!- oerjan has quit ("ZZZ"). 02:46:39 -!- immibis has joined. 03:08:56 -!- edwardk has joined. 03:09:05 * edwardk waves hello. 03:09:32 hi 03:09:42 how goes? 03:12:45 about 49 03:14:03 oklopol: what did you mean when you said "i found another immibis"? 03:14:50 how progresses oklotalk? 03:21:23 gah rebooting 03:21:25 -!- edwardk has left (?). 03:30:18 heh, rebooting 03:36:14 immibis: i found a guy that's a lot like you. 03:36:22 so much like you that i had to say it somewhere. 03:36:34 grar >_< 03:36:40 i can't find the book i'm looking for 03:36:47 is it pron? 03:37:13 no 03:37:34 i don't understand 03:38:22 it was about a lesbian who pretended to be a man in order to pick up chicks, and ended up hating men because of her experiences 03:38:25 or something like that 03:38:57 Pretending to be a man in order to pick up chicks? 03:39:19 is there something weird in that? :\ 03:39:21 "I have something to tell you." "What?" "I... I'm a woman." "WHAT?" *slam* 03:39:41 Or am I misunderstanding? 03:39:53 I'd better read today's xkcd to make sure. 03:40:07 well you can do other stuff, and tell her the truth once it'll be emotionally fatal for her to leave you 03:40:39 i'm pretty sure someone lying about their genitals isn't that eager to get naked. 03:40:41 ihope: she just did it to learn about a single, het, man's relationship with women 03:41:52 Het? 03:42:09 heterosexual 03:43:10 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:43:55 but i can't remember or find the title now :( 03:45:39 It baffles me why someone would go to the internet to "pick up chicks" in the first place 03:46:02 the internet? 03:46:33 she didn't 03:47:22 RodgerTheGreat: the get them without having to go out? 03:47:25 *to get 03:47:59 bsmntbombdood: oh, alright- that makes a tiny bit more sense 03:48:51 singles bars, etc 03:49:11 yes 04:05:02 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 04:50:32 Hmmm, is MISC supposed to increase its instruction pointer before or after branching? That is, do you branch to 0 to just branch to the next instruction, or branch to 1? ... 04:52:50 oisc is pwnage 04:53:01 I'm trying to write a quick MISC interpreter. 04:53:34 But I don't know whether branching to 0 is a loop or a noop... 04:54:52 IMHO, \0\0\0\0 should be a noop. 04:55:16 (That continues on the next instruction) 04:55:23 That is, IP would increment after branching. 05:19:34 -!- Meldarion_inq has joined. 05:19:51 Hello people :) 05:23:45 Hello, world! 05:23:56 lol 05:24:02 how are you doing? 05:24:09 math test in 40 mins, and i did not sleep 05:24:12 mwahaha 05:24:17 what math? 05:24:18 i feel wobbly 05:24:23 err something trivial 05:24:29 probabilities etc. 05:24:33 lol - ok. 05:24:40 they don't teach anything in high school 05:25:44 i don't know if it's any use going to the test, i'm not gonna pass the course unless i do about 50 additional exercises, and i don't think i'm gonna 05:25:56 but then again, it can't hurt me 05:25:57 -> 05:27:26 btw, i just installed python on my pocket pc and it has almost all the library support the *real* python has 05:27:38 should i idolize python or microsoft for this? 05:28:02 anyways, gtg -> 05:29:15 yup 05:29:20 good luck with your exam 05:29:22 :D 05:57:03 -!- Meldarion_inq has quit. 06:49:55 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 06:50:30 My MISC interpreter (+ memory mapped I/O) just printed an 'A' :) 07:00:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:47:06 -!- Robdgreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:10:18 the exam was ridiculous 08:10:39 i'm sure everyone wants to know that ;) 08:41:31 -!- molchuvka has joined. 09:21:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Typos sukc."). 09:40:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:40:27 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:21:25 -!- ehird` has joined. 10:27:28 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:11:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:16:51 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:23:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 11:34:36 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:36:59 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 12:53:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:56:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:10:51 -!- jix has joined. 13:40:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:40:24 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:47:09 -!- molchuvka has joined. 14:38:10 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:51:58 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:16:52 -!- Chton has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:30:05 -!- molchuvka has quit. 15:35:27 -!- molchuvka has joined. 16:25:25 Anybody want to write a MISC backend for GCC? :P 16:26:41 :S 16:36:10 http://www.choosemyhat.com/ < WTF??? 16:36:21 Did somebody hack my vote?! 16:37:45 They're all from different IPs >_O 16:38:00 Somebody first hacked a bunch of other systems, and THEN hacked my hat site :P 16:38:52 75 votes is more than the usual daily vote amount? 16:38:59 how much more 16:40:24 About 74 16:41:32 heh 16:41:59 slight growth 16:42:11 tomorrow it'll get over a million. 16:42:24 So far, tomorrow has two. 16:44:11 Saturday shall be red fedora day! 16:45:05 * oklopol goes haxxor now 16:45:41 umm... 16:45:48 GregorR: well, at least you know whoever hacked your site is dedicated 16:46:02 i pressed a green hat and a blue one was chosen :<< 16:46:14 oh, my. What would happen if somebody dugg ChooseMyHat.com? 16:46:19 but anyways, i already got one vote, 999997 left 16:46:34 let's all digg it! 16:46:42 sweet christ 16:47:03 GregorR: how can your webserver stand up to a slashdot? 16:47:16 actually, i have 3 ip's, so i could at least get 3 votes 16:47:33 err...... prolly don't just ban individual ip's, but the whole... set 16:47:34 I have easy access to 2 unique IPs 16:47:47 ah 16:47:49 actually... oh, computer lab access would be evil here 16:48:33 pretty easy to get 75 votes there, it's not like it's that hard to get people to press one button :P 16:49:43 i'd digg it 16:50:10 i only have access to one internet protocol 16:50:23 if I understand correctly, digg items getting onto the main page is a function of the "velocity", or rate at which something gains diggs. 16:50:42 if you can get about 7 people to digg in in a few minutes, it'll hit front page and take off like crazy 16:50:56 i better make an acount 16:51:07 link us up once you make the post 16:51:35 hmm 16:51:39 i'll make one too 16:53:27 hopefully new acounts don't have less weight than old ones 16:53:50 I dunno 16:54:14 hurry up with the post- I gotta leave for class in a few minutes 16:54:29 me too 16:55:21 :> 16:55:22 :< 16:55:28 i haven't gotten the mail yet.. 16:56:05 well, g2g 16:56:08 cy'all 16:56:14 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:56:17 bye 16:56:26 -!- jix has joined. 17:02:36 gar 17:02:48 hurry up GregorR 17:03:59 hmm... what should GregorR hurry? 17:04:23 digging choose my hat 17:04:44 he said he's gonna? 17:05:07 i dunno 17:06:52 digg does not like me 17:15:09 digging is easy 17:15:15 i got to #1 almost instantly 17:15:24 when i made The Most Pointless Site Ever 17:15:47 (if you weren't there: you made an account, then there was a number. there was a button to increase the number (for everyone else too) and a list of people who have clicked the most. That's it.) 17:15:56 it got #1 on digg for a long time 17:16:11 it was submitted, then the next day a few people had digged it 17:16:17 i had posted it on a forum i frequent 17:16:24 and people just ended up digging it 17:16:51 all in all it got over 600 diggs in total, digg used tons of scripts, and /b/ found it 17:16:57 so, digg's algo is kinda broken 17:17:00 promotes too easily 18:00:53 heh 18:05:46 I'm back 18:14:03 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:24:41 * SimonRC goes to dinner 18:41:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:58:11 GregorR: digg plz 19:14:20 Context-Free Design Grammar is wow 19:14:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:14:24 it has some esoterica in there 19:14:42 in that you can do infinite recursion as long as the part you draw gets infinitely small 19:14:47 which is crazy awesome 19:14:51 a very natural way to think about things 19:14:57 and must make things like the mandelbrot set trivial 19:15:12 no 19:15:21 The mandlebrot self is not self--similar 19:15:28 i know 19:16:36 What are we talking about? 19:17:08 Context-Free Design Grammar 19:22:45 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:39:23 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 19:42:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:49:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:50:33 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:09:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:28:58 -!- molchuvka has quit. 20:33:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:36:37 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:47:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:51:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has changed nick to N0BODY. 20:52:07 -!- N0BODY has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 20:53:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 20:53:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:16:50 -!- molchuvka has joined. 21:29:58 -!- moomoo has joined. 21:35:58 let f be the mccarthy 91 function 21:37:47 please compute f(n) for every n between 0 and 100 21:45:03 GregorR: WHERE:S TA DIGG? 21:56:06 -!- Eidolos has left (?). 22:00:27 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 22:00:41 how am i supposed to talk about brainfuck with a teacher ? 22:01:51 very carefully. 22:02:05 maybe give your teacher flowers first? 22:03:26 today i just called it P'' 22:05:16 call it brainhugsandkisses 22:05:32 maybe just BF 22:12:32 BrainF 22:12:53 brainsexualintercourse 22:13:04 heh 22:13:29 a clbuttic mistake 22:14:17 :) 22:14:28 bsmntbombdood: hopefully any teacher intersted in it is the type that doesn't care about the words, just how they're used 22:16:07 BrainShit 22:16:10 BrainAsshole 22:16:21 plenty of options 22:17:16 When talking about sex, there are few words that were not at some point a euphamism. 22:17:17 is "brain" a swear word? i don't think so. 22:18:05 BrainBrain 22:18:08 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:18:14 "sex" was originally male/female, "make love" is a euphamism, "shag" is random, ditto "rodger" etc. 22:18:36 the only non-euphamism I can think of is "fuck" itself 22:18:55 hard to say if something is a euphamism 22:19:55 etymology? 22:20:12 and the teacher in question isn't interested in it specifically, i just have to tell them what i'm working on 22:21:10 "Brainfunk"? 22:21:19 "BrainF"? 22:21:23 BrainMakeLove 22:21:28 lol 22:21:46 brainSodomize 22:21:49 fuck != sex in brainfuck 22:22:15 BrainScrew? 22:22:15 by the way, it's "euphemism" 22:22:19 works both ways 22:22:20 BrainEuphemism 22:22:40 BrainMessup 22:22:57 brainconfuser 22:24:06 Brainal 22:24:13 That would be a good name for a BF derivative. 22:29:37 gar >_< 22:29:54 this torrent has 7991 seeders, but is downloading at 6kB/s 22:30:01 they are very slow seeders 22:30:02 ;) 22:30:04 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 22:33:09 7991? it can only be porn 22:33:18 it's not! 22:33:25 it's a "linux distro" 22:33:30 (Aka, porn) 22:33:43 linux distro? "Lesbian"? 22:33:58 it's Prison.Break.S03E03.HDTV.XViD-Caph.avi 22:34:08 (Aka, porn) 22:34:38 no 22:34:44 i do have lots of porn seeding though 22:36:17 http://pizdaus.com/pics/MC3KUw7uCDtL.jpg 22:38:06 bsmntbombdood: is that NSFW 22:38:11 no 22:38:20 * SimonRC cautiously clicks 22:38:51 where is that? 22:38:56 dunno 22:39:12 where di you get it from/ 22:39:18 http://pizdaus.com/index.php?sort=best 22:40:47 thats a shitload of macs 22:43:25 Or is it a metric fuckton? 22:43:51 a metric kilokiloton 22:45:28 * SimonRC prefers the imperial fuckton 22:46:21 a metric fuckton is larger than an imperial fuckton 22:47:34 no, a common misconception 22:47:37 so now you can convert a pound to either newtons or fucktons, depending? 22:51:54 everything you need to know about the metric fuckton: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1398601 22:57:39 a metric fuckton is 2200 fucks 22:57:47 an imperial fuckton is 2000 fucks 22:59:00 i think you've got that back assward 22:59:03 ah 22:59:54 no 23:00:07 I could nick that for an Uncyclopedia article. 23:00:55 or it could be 1000/907, depending on how you look at it 23:02:31 as long as the raito is 1.10231131 23:07:50 i see you are using a properly shitty calculator for this 23:09:38 >>> 1111111111 ** 2 - 1111111110 * 1111111112 23:09:40 1L 23:09:49 i like nice calculators :) 23:11:09 -!- jix has joined. 23:32:21 >>> 1 23:32:31 hm 23:32:36 oh 23:32:42 you copied and pasted python interactive prompt stuff 23:33:21 only because he is EVIL 23:34:23 oerjan: approximations 23:35:09 I made an assembly language (and assembler) for MISC. 23:35:22 It's fun writing assembly with only arguments, no operators :P 23:36:11 A taste of misc-as: 0xFF 0xFF $1 0 # Subtract 1 from the value at address 0xFF 23:36:27 Erm, that's /relative/ address 0xFF 23:36:29 For absolute: 23:36:35 %0xFF %0xFF $1 0 23:36:35 i wrote a subleq machine and assembler 23:38:06 What did your assembly language look like? 23:38:32 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:39:00 a list of adresses basically 23:40:16 with labels and a few constants 23:40:51 http://pastebin.ca/723643 23:41:05 that's cat 23:46:37 Craziest reddit headline ever: Australian actresses are plagiarizing my quantum mechanics lecture to sell printers 23:54:27 Well, don't do that. 23:54:34 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:55:54 So, I bought an old tablet PC plus "whatever spare parts I have lying around." Apparently "whatever spare parts I have lying around" amounts to FIVE SPARE BATTERIES. 23:56:25 I didn't desperately need six batteries for this :P 23:59:10 heh 2007-10-03: 00:07:59 zzzzzzz 00:09:04 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 00:24:39 bah, flag desacration is illegal in colorado 00:34:08 Feels weird to remove a hard disk from an old computer, plug it into my computer and then boot it in QEmu :P 00:34:17 Seems sort of insulting to the real computer when it runs faster in QEmu X-D 00:41:50 BrainGentlyCaress 00:48:17 * pikhq pisses on a flag, taking advantage of the federal law superseding state law in that instance 00:49:08 hooray constitution 00:49:20 GregorR: We can recompile it... we have the technology. Stronger, faster, better than before. 00:51:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 00:51:55 * pikhq starts playing "harder better faster stronger" 00:51:57 -!- immibis has joined. 00:52:42 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to Around The World / Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger by Daft Punk from Coachella 2006 00:53:08 :) 00:53:10 -!- immibis has quit (Client Quit). 00:53:36 'tis the music that great programming is made of 00:54:06 * bsmntbombdood is listening to The Gathering / Infected Mushroom 00:56:43 that's music great acid trips are made of 00:58:01 haha. I have witnessed forum brilliance. 00:59:00 a guy named "With Your Ass" posted a thread asking suggestions for removing shards of a broken beer bottle from his backpack entitled "How do I get tiny glass shards out of my sack?" 00:59:39 putting it in the dryer probably 01:00:00 hm. That might actually work. 01:01:11 -!- rutlov has joined. 01:01:20 most people are suggesting duct-tape 01:02:04 that won't get the stuff embedded in the fabric 01:02:58 yeah- I think a dryer is the best idea I could think of 01:03:03 it would really suck to get tiny glass shards in your sack though 01:03:06 do you have experience with this sort of thing? 01:03:11 yeah, no kidding 01:03:46 i bet it would get infected 01:04:01 worse than glass shards: fiberglass 01:04:07 imagine the rash. :S 01:04:19 a la http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Scrotal_infection (nsfw) 01:04:34 eeew 01:04:40 but yes 01:08:06 out of morbid curiosity, did you just type "infected scrotum" into google for that thing? 01:08:48 no, i've read that article before 01:09:16 although that is the first result 01:09:18 OH MY GOD 01:09:30 look at the images 01:09:52 I don' wanna. D:> 01:11:10 -!- rutlov has left (?). 01:13:06 "A Case Of Multiple Sebaceous Cysts Over Scrotum In A 35 Years Old Male" 01:14:22 that is just about the grossest thing ever 01:37:44 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:37:45 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:51:58 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 01:52:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:55:50 -!- moomoo has quit ("leaving"). 01:57:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:09:35 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:27:34 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 02:38:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:24:26 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 03:24:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:44:22 * bsmntbombdood is listening to Pink Floyd - The Final Cut 03:53:55 * pikhq approves 03:55:55 i'm not sure i like 03:55:57 too uniform 04:00:47 Not listened to that album, so my approval is of the band. . . 04:00:52 ok 04:01:05 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to Emotion 98.6 by Mylo from Destroy Rock & Roll 04:35:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:43:20 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:57:30 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:57:36 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:58:55 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:59:05 -!- jix has joined. 05:03:17 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:15:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:19:22 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:54:54 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:17:27 -!- Arrogant has joined. 06:40:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:41:38 I made macros to make functions/calling easier in MISC :) 06:42:38 (cpp macros that is) 06:52:00 Now, I just need a backend for GCC ... 06:52:02 :P 07:36:16 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 07:42:51 -!- bsmntbom2dood has joined. 07:47:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:54:06 I have macros for MUL/DIV/MOD now :) 07:54:08 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:17:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, *GreaseMonkey* kills a kitten."). 09:45:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:47:54 -!- molchuvka has joined. 10:00:25 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:16:04 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 10:24:36 -!- ehird` has joined. 10:26:05 I'm annoyed at regular expressions not having enough computational class to do everything I want them to do 10:26:33 for instance, several times I'd have found it useful to have a regexp that matches a string with matched parentheses 10:26:52 so I'm working on a Turing-complete enhanced-regexp language 10:28:37 Perl 6 rules look pretty cool. 10:29:01 I haven't seen them 10:29:03 ais523: why 10:29:06 perl 5 regexps are TC 10:29:16 only by embedding Perl into them, I think 10:29:39 really? 10:29:41 i dont think so 10:29:49 i seem to remember with some bizzare hacks you can make it TC 10:29:54 e.g., that regexp that can solve sudoku 10:29:57 uses no perl 10:30:33 in my language, I can write (\($+\)|'^\(\)'|) and get an expression that matches only strings with matched parens 10:30:37 how is that done in Perl? 10:30:55 (the $+ means 'match a copy of the containing group') 10:30:58 i do not actually know, sorry# 10:31:03 but i have heard a few times that they are TC 10:31:40 http://perl.abigail.be/Talks/Sudoku/HTML 10:32:28 also, I have things like (a*)b*:-c*:- to solve the famous n as, n bs, n cs problem, which I think is considerably shorter than the corresponding BF program 10:33:48 by the way, a non-TC program can solve Sudoku 10:33:56 (in theory, you could do it with a lookup table) 10:35:08 well 10:35:10 take a look at the examples 10:35:13 i sure don't grok them, 10:35:19 but i don't think they're using a lookup table 10:35:36 no, they're just placing a huge number of constraints on the problem 10:35:45 hm 10:35:49 so it isn't tc 10:36:11 traditional regular expressions can be compiled into a finite-state machine 10:36:19 http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=KCL&q=perl+5+regular+expressions+turing+complete&btnG=Search&meta= Perhaps you will find something here. 10:36:20 and 10:36:25 perl 5 regexps are not traditional 10:36:32 I don't think Perl regular expressions are any better in that respect, but I don't know 10:45:06 * ais523 is reading through the Google results, and so far has found a lot of people disagreeing with each other 11:00:31 mathematical regexs can be compiled into FSMs -- I studied it at Uni 11:02:18 I'm reading through Perl5 and Perl6 regex syntax 11:02:38 Perl5 allows ?{} (embed Perl code), which obviously makes it TC, but that's cheating 11:03:29 it also allows ??{} (defered evaluation), which can be used to execute arbitrary Perl or which can be used to create a context-free grammar 11:03:35 I'm not sure if using that is cheating 11:04:07 Perl6's regexes are like Perl5s, but re-written to be more verbose and 'readable' to beginning programmers 11:04:31 if multiple 'rules' are given, it again creates a context-free grammar 11:04:54 but I'm not sure if a context-free grammar can match (a*)b*:-c*:- 11:07:24 it's interesting to see the parallel evolution of my regex language and Perl6's, though; for instance, they both contain constructs equivalent to Prolog's 'cut' and 'fail' 11:08:35 ...and we both changed . to also match newlines 11:28:22 back 11:28:49 i might make a regexp-like language 11:29:04 i've always wanted for ?[\\$]%(.=&)/ to match something 11:29:12 s/for// (How ironic) 11:29:56 what you wrote is a syntax error in my language, unfortunately (partly because I deliberately don't use square brackets for anything) 11:31:29 i've always wanted regexps that can match entire languages 11:31:30 ;) 11:31:46 a kind-of-regexp parser in one kind-of-regexp would be awesome! 11:31:49 I was designing my regexp language partly for that purpose 11:32:02 why don't any regexp impls have nested regexp groups? 11:32:17 what exactly do you mean by that 11:32:25 s/$/\?/ 11:32:29 (a) -> [['a']] 11:32:39 (a(b)) -> [['a', ['b']]] 11:32:43 see? 11:32:56 what do the square brackets represent? 11:33:01 you could generate an entire parse tree, with some additional commands (like "don't nest", "pop out" etc) 11:33:02 and 11:33:04 arrays in the language 11:33:18 from a match_str(pattern, str) 11:33:29 I think my language might be able to do that, but I can't remember the syntax offhand 11:33:32 so instead of (a) when given "a" returning ['a'] 11:33:37 it'd return [['a']] 11:33:49 so, a match is a list of text and submatches 11:33:51 the root list is too 11:33:57 so, it's a parse tree, really 11:34:18 it wouldn't do it by default, but you could write something like (a=\Ba\E) 11:34:21 if there is a way to say "append this to the result set, even if it is not in the string:", then you can parse an /entire language/ with one regexp0thing :D 11:34:28 where \B and \E change into [ and ] in the output 11:34:32 no no no 11:34:42 pretend we are in a programming language 11:34:44 NOT the regexp language 11:34:48 [x,y,z] is an array 11:35:00 [[x, y, z], [a, b, c]] is an array with two arrays as elements 11:35:08 matching (a) on the string a would produce [['a']] 11:35:28 think of the result of matching as something like [$1, $2, $3...] in perl 11:35:31 that's it: my regexp language outputs a set of nested arrays as its answer when \B and \E are used 11:35:44 except, $1, $2, etc. are ALSO match results 11:35:54 so just matching (a) on the strng 'a' gives [['a']] 11:36:01 the = causes its LHS to be 'replaced' with its RHS in a vague sense 11:36:07 (a(b))c((d)e) on 'abcde' produces: 11:36:21 [['a', ['b']], [['d'], 'e']] 11:36:44 so your output just mirrors the group syntax of the input? 11:37:48 kiiind of 11:37:55 except 11:38:11 there would be a modifier of some sort for () which says 'put this N levels upward in the tree' or 'pop out N levels' 11:38:16 or 'don't nest this match' 11:38:38 (a(b))c((d)e) in regular regexps in 'abcde' would be ['a', 'b', 'd', 'e'] which i do not think is nearly as useful for simple matching OR parsing 11:38:55 something like you suggest can be done reasonably simply with Perl5 regexps 11:39:06 you put an extra group around each section between groups, like this: 11:39:26 ((a)((b)))(c)(((d))(e)) 11:39:42 and then you simply have a template to fill $ns into, like this: 11:39:53 sure, i know 11:39:58 but its not as convenient, imo 11:40:07 you could do everything your regexps do with perl's regexp eval feature 11:40:12 that doesn't mean it's useful to do it like that 11:40:34 [[$2, [$4]], [[$8], $9]] (I'm going to finish writing this comment anyway, even though it's long after it's relevant) 11:40:52 the point is you could write a program to automatically compile regexps like you suggest into the existing form 11:42:06 sure, but add the other features of my regexp stuff i have in my head 11:42:11 which you can't compile short of eval 11:43:37 well, I like my language because I can do (\(($1)\)=\B=1\E|'^\(\)'|) 11:43:58 what does that do? 11:44:39 if applied to the string (a(b))c((d)e) it would return [['a',['b']],'c',[['d'],'e']] 11:44:58 in other words, it's parsing the brackets in the input string into the array notation of the language that you're using 11:45:38 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:45:54 i'm pretty sure i could do similar 11:45:56 the nesting is not required 11:46:07 you can make a () pair not nest inline 11:46:10 to be exact, you'd have to put =^ at the end if you were using this as part of a larger regexp, but the system adds that automatically if it's not given anywhere 11:46:13 and you can manually add nesting levels with it 11:46:18 and add/remove elements to them 11:46:26 so, mine can do what yours does too 11:46:41 what would a regexp for doing that look like in your language? 11:48:10 i have no idea. i haven't written down my language yet. 11:48:13 i just have ideas for it. 11:48:17 that above would definately be possible though 11:49:24 * ais523 is still reading the Perl6 regexp syntax 11:51:53 ehird`: it seems that Perl6 does hierarchical capturing through capture brackets like you were suggesting above 11:52:12 (although it returns a nested hierarchy of Match objects rather than just arrays) 11:52:15 FUCK! I'm starting to think like Larry Wall. 11:52:23 arrays was kinda symbolic 11:52:31 the notation was a way to represent match data 11:53:40 so given the regex ( a ( b ) ) c ( ( d ) e ) you would get an output in which $1[0] was "d" (because the matches are 0-based) 11:54:51 cool. 11:55:02 can you do nammed submatches? 11:55:18 yes, in both Perl6 and my language 11:55:25 so, $r['g']['g2'] or similar 11:55:54 I don't think the named submatches are hierarchical, but I admit I'm a bit confused trying to read the document in question 11:56:02 http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S05.html 11:58:22 so here's a problem: suppose you have an Unlambda expression, and you want to convert it to another expression in which the arguments to every ` have been swapped 11:58:29 considering just s and k for simplicity, 11:59:19 I would write this as (`($1)($1)=`=2=1|s|k)=^ (the =^ is optional if this is the whole regex) 11:59:33 I wonder if it's possible to do anything like that in other regex languages? 11:59:37 bakc 11:59:39 *back 11:59:52 and hm 12:00:07 intuitively i think yes, but the regexp would be repetitive i think 12:00:10 also 12:00:19 another feature my regexps will have, is nested regexps 12:00:27 you can run other regexps on other strings, get their matches, etc 12:00:36 you can run a string as the regexp, even! 12:00:50 I was planning something similar, but hadn't worked out all the syntax 12:00:53 strings of course include groups, replacements on groups, etc 12:01:21 you could run a regexp on just what was matched by a group, even using that regexp to /change/ what that group matched from the point of view of the rest of the expression 12:01:39 or you could take what was matched by a group as the regexp itself, or both (or neither) 12:03:52 exactly 12:03:53 same here 12:04:03 the possibilities are endless ;) 12:04:41 'what was matched by a group' is the closest my language has to variables, as it can be changed retroactively (without modifying the original string; there are other ways to do that) 12:07:39 WD is GTP 12:07:47 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh 12:07:58 ?? 12:08:24 problems with my hard drive 12:08:30 the external one 12:08:35 serious problems 12:09:15 a good quote I just came across: 'we think the popular term "regex" is in the process of becoming a technical term with a precise meaning of: "something you do pattern matching with, kinda like a regular expression"' 12:09:22 the funny thing is that before some days a friend of me found bad sectors in his disk which is the almost the same model with mine. 12:10:01 is there a tool for surface scan in Linux? 12:11:56 ? 12:28:56 -!- molchuvka has joined. 12:30:36 ais523: :) 12:30:45 my language will let you assign arbitary things to groups 12:30:59 same here 12:31:01 so, combine the 'arbitary' and 'don't add to match results' modifiers, 12:31:02 and voila 12:31:02 variables 12:31:18 or, just use 'arbitary' to insert elements into various places in the match tree 12:31:22 I assume there's some way to generate an infinite number of them 12:31:23 -> easy parsetree generation 12:31:36 mine can, but only in a push-down way 12:32:28 turing complete parse-tree generation 12:32:30 bliss =) 12:32:38 no more fscking yacc or workalikes! 12:33:09 it seems you, me and Perl6 all have the same aim here 12:33:33 turing-complete parse tree generation? wow. 12:34:04 yes, RodgerTheGreat. 12:34:08 with regular-expression-alikes. 12:34:14 cool 12:34:21 have i mown your blind sufficiently yet? 12:34:34 one traditional problem in parsing a language: the construct (a, b):=(c, d) which assigns c to a and d to b exists in some languages 12:34:41 it's very hard to write those semantics in BNF 12:34:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:34:50 why 12:35:14 because there have to be the same number of variables on each side, and the first variable on the LHS maps to the first variable on the RHS 12:35:15 in coco/r, it's straightforward to write this in EBNF 12:35:33 ll(k) compiler compiler 12:35:39 coco/r is horrid though, so shush ;) 12:35:54 the traditional solution was to accept any number on each side, and then check there were the same number on each side when translating the parse tree 12:35:56 ais523: good old a*nb*nc*n problem 12:36:09 yes, just in a different form 12:36:24 ehird`: please describe the word 'horrid', i dont have dictionary at hand 12:36:39 molchuvka: the fuel that powers the steam engine that creates nightmares 12:36:44 the a^nb^n problem can be solved by a push-down, with an expression like (a$+b|) in my notation 12:36:51 but it matches the last a with the first b 12:37:54 i wonder... 12:38:04 since these re-alikes are turing complete 12:38:18 and with mine at least, you can parse a full language into a parse-tree with only one single re-alikes 12:38:23 what expression parses perl 5? 12:38:52 Perl6 apparently has a built-in expression for parsing perl6; it's a constant that's just defined by the language 12:39:04 an expression to parse perl5 would take a while to write, I expect 12:39:28 but it would be useful because I've never seen a really good Perl syntax highlighter (that can handle regexps and the weird quoting syntax) 12:40:07 damn, just think how complex it would be 12:40:19 you'd be utilizing turing complete hacks all over the place to be 100% correct 12:40:53 for convenience i think my regexp language will include a special quine "variable" (group) that is just the string of the expression it is contained it 12:40:55 *in 12:41:02 this, incidentally, makes a quine very trivial :P 12:41:15 well, the null string's a quine in mine 12:41:23 heh 12:41:30 * ais523 tries to thing of a quine in their language that's at least one byte long 12:41:30 i can just imagine the docs for my quine 12:41:42 "This expression matches nothing into itself." 12:41:50 actually, anything 12:42:00 "This expression matches anything into itself." 12:42:41 you know, my regexp language will probably be really hard to parse (even in itself) and a mammoth task to implement 12:42:55 I'm having serious problems trying to implement mine 12:43:09 I'm writing the docs first and although they're unfinished, they're already several pages long 12:43:38 I do not think I will bother implementing mine, from the features I have in mind it'd be a project on the level of full-scale open source projects 12:43:57 Maybe if someone offers some help after I write a spec. :-) 12:44:21 perhaps you should focus on a simpler proof-of-concept 12:44:37 no, i want my amazingerific expressions in full ;) 12:45:06 heh. Or design an esolang that requires this feature in order to achieve turing-completeness. 12:45:29 that's simple 12:45:45 just make a program input and a regular expression 12:46:00 since they can perform turing complete calculations, voila 12:46:15 the match tree would be the output of the program 12:46:49 in fact you don't even need an input string 12:46:52 (it could just be empty) 12:47:01 since you can assign arbitary values to groups, and run regexps on groups 12:47:02 mine can generate output off no input at all, because it has features for inserting text into the input string 12:47:03 etc 12:47:22 ais523: mine can do that but only because you can explicitly modify and generate matches in the match tree 12:47:49 in mine, you can write (Hello\, world\!)^ to add Hello, world! to the input string 12:48:04 where the ^ 'negates' the preceding group 12:48:13 it has many more interesting uses as well 12:48:58 ais523: can yours be used to parse an entire language in one expression? 12:49:03 within reason that is, not using tons of TC-hackery 12:49:10 yes, pretty easily 12:49:13 because from what i have in my head mine could do that very easily and naturally 12:49:18 as in, not a hack a tall 12:49:21 just natural common usage 12:49:24 which i think is cool 12:49:33 PARSER constant in a language = XD 12:49:34 I have an = command that's not actually necessary, but makes such expressions more readable 12:49:52 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 12:50:13 i think mine will have "and" and "or" constructs 12:50:32 it depends on what you mean by 'and' 12:50:45 i.e. "if this (X) matches, then this (Y) must too, otherwise there is no match" 12:50:56 if you're just checking variables, you write the checks one after the other (possibly with a cut) and you get a short-circuit match 12:51:07 or, "if (X) does not match, but (Y) does, there is a match" 12:51:13 Perl6 has a 'two or more matches that must start and end at the same place construct' 12:51:15 and by x and y i mean two groups of some sort 12:51:31 as for or, that's just the (a|b) construct that's been in every regex language ever AFAIK 12:52:00 sure 12:52:05 but this could handle more complex constructs 12:52:13 and so can or 12:52:22 so it makes sense to ditch (a|b) and get the new syntax 12:52:27 actually, the syntax may be the same 12:52:28 who knows? 12:52:31 but it'll behave different 12:52:35 the syntax is the same in my language 12:52:45 and it behaves the same way, for esoteric values of 'same' 12:53:23 so (a|b) means 'match a, if that fails or there's a fail somewhere later try matching b instead' 12:53:39 &, i think, is a bit more interesting than | 12:53:42 if you don't want it to backtrack into the (a|b) group you can write (a|b)!- instead 12:53:51 anyway 12:53:52 you're right, & is definitely more interesting 12:53:56 with mine you can have different modifiers on a and b 12:53:58 etc 12:53:59 :) 12:54:21 obviously that's possible, you just put the modifiers inside the groups in question 12:54:31 i have no idea what the implications are, but or-ing an arbitary, in-output group with a non-arbitary, out-of-output group sounds... interesting 12:54:39 but, let's think about & 12:54:46 what are the implications? i get the feeling it could be very useful 12:54:50 but i don't quite see which 12:54:54 well, let's boil it down 12:55:21 A&B = if A, then B. else, A. 12:55:39 now - what are the implications of that in a regexp language? (Where the "if A" means "if A matches") 12:55:42 ehird`: for the or you can just write (a|b^), for instance, which either removes an a from the input string or failing that adds a b 12:56:45 for the and you've just defined, that's ab? (or (ab?)? depending on whether you want the not-a situation to succeed or fail) 12:56:59 and you can always just cut away any choicepoints that are left behind that you don't want 12:58:16 i'm pretty sure it isn't ab? 12:58:19 since 12:58:25 if a was true, and b was 12:58:29 only b would be "returned" 12:58:30 not ab 12:58:59 my regexes don't 'return' things, they just modify the input string and/or group-match memory 12:59:31 "return" means "add to the match tree" 13:00:09 then you want (a=x)(b=y)? in my language where x and y are the things to add to the output corresponding to a and b 13:00:09 but, you know what i mean 13:00:18 i'll demonstrate 13:00:36 x -> y -> z, meaning "expr x with input y matches tree z": 13:00:50 (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]] 13:01:03 (a&b) -> "b" -> nope 13:01:14 (a&b) -> "a" -> nope 13:01:25 i think that's right 13:01:42 does nope refer to a fail, here? 13:02:02 in my language, because returning is explicit, you just don't return anything from a: (a=)(b=y) 13:02:37 i think it means a fail 13:02:39 ;) 13:03:11 all languages should have some backtracking construct IMO 13:03:29 how about: 13:03:29 because it makes it much easier to implement backtracking languages, and doesn't affect programs that don't need to use it 13:03:36 (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]] 13:03:36 likewise for multithreading 13:03:38 (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]] 13:03:48 you just wrote the same thing twice 13:03:49 (a&b) -> "a" -> [["b"]] 13:03:50 I know 13:03:58 (a&b) -> "b" -> [["a"]] 13:04:09 because that is "directly" if A then B else A 13:04:28 (a=b|b=a)? 13:04:53 incidentally, on single characters, you can write that 'ab=ba' in my language as shorthand 13:06:01 i dont know 13:06:14 i'm just trying to think of a useful way to implement an and construct 13:06:55 I think ab is probably the simplest sort of and construct; after all, both a and b have to match for ab to match 13:07:13 that sort of and has been around for ages, and nearly all regexes use it 13:07:20 sort of like and in Prolog 13:07:27 it's the 'and then' operator 13:11:01 no 13:11:16 in your programming language of choice, does a & b return [a, b] if both a and b are true? 13:11:19 no -- it returns b 13:11:29 so, ab is not a&b 13:11:51 in many languages, and just returns true or false, which was more the idea I was getting at 13:12:03 or in backtracking languages, succeed/fail 13:12:25 the 'and then' is clearly a separate operator from perl's and 13:12:39 "many languages" suck ;) 13:12:54 ok, let's take a lowest-common-denominator language 13:13:06 one that follows most patterns intuitively, but isn't very interesting : python 13:13:22 >>> 1 and 2 13:13:22 2 13:13:30 in just about every language i have used (that i didn't hate) that happened 13:13:59 I agree that all the best languages seem to implement it like that, apart from C-based languages (some of which are also good) 13:14:03 so -- 13:14:03 (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]] 13:14:03 (a&b) -> "b" -> nope 13:14:03 (a&b) -> "a" -> nope 13:14:09 seems to be a reasonable construct 13:14:24 but in my language, nothing returns anything unless a return value is guaranteed 13:14:25 but the question is, is it useful like that? what is a reasonable usecase? 13:14:33 or is there another way to implement it that makes it more useful? 13:14:42 actually, in C, 1 && 2 == 2 13:14:49 no, 1 && 2 == 1 13:14:54 && always returns 0 or 1 13:14:59 ah, yes, silly me 13:15:17 lisp: (AND 1 2) ==> 2 13:15:18 you can write 1?2:0 for a Perl-style and (where the 0 is a constant) 13:15:43 BASIC: 1 AND 2 ==> 0 13:15:49 (because it always does it bitwise) 13:15:52 basic as an example? :P 13:16:09 anyway by 1 and 2 i didn't neccessarily mean 1 and 2 because of bitwise-ness 13:16:24 i just meant two things that have the truth-value of "true" but are not "true" themselves 13:17:00 I only picked BASIC because it did something different from the other languages 13:17:26 and I was demonstrating that for values other than true or false, what it did didn't just jump to set values nor take the second value 13:18:07 so i guess we're all stuck on trying to work out a use for my (a&b) semantics? :) 13:18:36 imagine a BASIC interpreter written in regexes 13:18:58 i don't want to 13:18:59 however 13:19:00 PRINT 6 is equivalent to (PRINT&&6) with an ehird`-style AND 13:19:06 lisp interpreter written with regexes? 13:19:09 trivial 13:19:14 and no, ais523, it is not 13:19:26 (a&b) with "ab" as input >produces [["b"]]< 13:19:44 whereas (ab) with "ab" as input produces [["a", "b"]] 13:19:56 I assumed you were piping the output to a console that was flattening 13:20:03 you wouldn't want to print the PRINT as well as the 6 13:20:12 so it's just the 6 that's being printed 13:20:42 oh i get it 13:20:55 you are saying that PRINT 6 (basic code) is (PRINT&&6) in mine? 13:21:31 right? 13:21:33 I'm saying that the ehird`-regexp (PRINT&&.*) will output just what's after the PRINT if fed PRINT 6 as input 13:21:40 yes 13:21:55 (PRINT&&a) -> "PRINTa" -> [["a"]] 13:21:55 in my language, that's (PRINT.*=.*) 13:22:10 because it matches corresponding .s and *s together 13:22:10 (it's &, actually, right now :P) 13:22:21 and that is interesting but it seems like it could be ambigious 13:22:41 what does 'that' refer to in your preceding statement? 13:23:04 in my language, that's (PRINT.*=.*) 13:23:25 (PRINT.*.*=.*) 13:23:28 which does the RHS .* refer to 13:23:39 that's an error because the two sides don't have the same structure 13:23:53 ah 13:24:06 so, does & seem useful to you at all with my semantics? 13:24:20 you could disable one for matching purposes as (PRINT(+.*).*=.*) if you liked, because a group starting with + isn't counted 13:24:22 i am not sure if it could be given better semantics, or if these are good, or if it's even useful either way 13:24:59 I think & might be useful, but it should be codable within the language, rather than being a feature of it 13:25:05 sort-of like a standard library function 13:26:08 now now this is regexps 13:26:13 let's not get overboard 13:26:13 :) 13:26:24 but try as i might i just can not think of a usecase for & 13:26:29 no matter how intuitively useful it sounds 13:27:04 'and then' is probably a more useful operator, boring as it is 13:27:30 there has to be some obscure & usecase! :< 13:27:39 * ais523 has to go now in order to have a chance of getting lunch before being busy, but will read the end of the conversation in the logs 13:27:47 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:28:49 who wants to continue this discussion? :P 13:29:30 * oklopol says "penis" and everyone laughs 13:30:09 i can't think of a usecase, and unfortunately i don't have time for that either :< 13:30:20 but ehird`: check out ihope's parser language 13:30:23 that's pretty neat 13:32:26 RodgerTheGreat: have you mown your blind sufficiently yet? 14:00:56 something like that 14:01:34 observe the first two pages of a story I started working on last night: 14:01:35 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1191376302-Cosm1.png 14:01:40 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1191386100-Cosm2.png 14:09:02 NOT END -> 14:09:07 very zen ending marker 14:10:12 I'm still writing 14:10:53 ;) 14:14:16 do you like the general concept, though? Are you interested in where things are going? 14:15:31 looks good so far 14:15:34 i think the next frame will involve lots of spam popup-demon-things 14:15:40 now do 998 more, and you have a webcomic 14:15:44 "Congratulations! You win a free iPod!" 14:15:45 woo 14:16:03 ehird`: lol- there's a line similar to that 14:22:07 also 14:22:14 why does that popup use decimal 14:22:15 :P 14:26:59 there is an explanation for that 14:28:09 it better be good 14:28:21 and not just "Oh, well you have 10 fingers, so I talk using decimal so it's easier for you" 14:28:34 that's on the same level as "Oh, well you use English, so I do the same so it's easier for you" 14:28:39 (that better have an explanation too :P) 14:29:04 more like "there's a reason you have 10 fingers!" 14:29:49 the english thing only applies to the popup, and it speaks english for a perfectly valid reason. Not everything does or will. 14:30:49 i am very intrigued then 14:30:55 I wish popups left me alone for 22 years if I am busy 14:31:05 you should put up a site for it, dumped images aren't fun to navigate :P 14:31:48 maybe 14:32:02 ... possibly fix the blur on the left side of the page too :P 14:32:19 * SimonRC wonders what NetBasic is 14:32:36 http://support.novell.com/techcenter/articles/dnd19961103.html this? 14:32:44 that's because my scanner isn't technically large enough for my bristol board 14:32:51 a very ugly basic dialect it seems 14:33:06 wtf? NetBASIC already exists? Well, fuck me 14:33:17 huh? 14:33:27 my version is much prettier, if less useful. 14:33:42 * ehird` is confused 14:35:32 this: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1190938723-downsteam.png 14:35:33 I'm writing a BASIC implementation called NetBASIC 14:35:39 ok 14:35:40 exactly 14:36:13 out of curiosity 14:36:14 why? 14:36:28 it's part of a game 14:39:13 what kind of game? 14:40:41 it's kindof a coding/puzzle game. You write programs to traverse a simulated network, retrieve various files, and get around obstacles, in some cases with code length restrictions or time limits 14:41:07 some puzzles may even involve "distributed computing" challenges 14:41:30 RodgerTheGreat: ah, hacking-like 14:41:36 more or less 14:41:48 couldn't you make it more obsucre? 14:41:53 like, an APL/Lisp alike ;) 14:41:55 (Both!) 14:41:59 * SimonRC tries to remembner the name of the popular "virtual hacking" game 14:41:59 it's a little abstract, and not intended to be particularly accurate, but it's pretty fun 14:42:11 arbitrary code execution, for example, is pretty trivial 14:42:23 SimonRC: Uplink 14:42:30 RodgerTheGreat: yes 14:42:31 by introversion software. 14:43:21 uplink is fun 14:43:34 it's silly 14:43:34 but fun 14:43:38 i like introversion software 14:43:41 Uplink was in no small way an inspiration to this game. I love the concept and execution, but I felt a hacking game with more to do with coding would be even more fun 14:43:56 introversion makes some great stuff- have either of you tried DefCon? 14:44:58 darwinia was popular a while back 14:45:25 darwinia was breathtakingly beautiful, but I think the gameplay was a little slow-paced 14:45:59 plus, they ditched the gesture-driven task manager for a regular menu in the patch. :( 14:49:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:51:17 introversion's games are interesting in that you can see they were designed as a bunch of interesting demos that eventually merged together into a game. They also tend to appear very simple and contain a tremendous amount of depth upon further inspection. The commandline on hacked computers in Uplink is an example. 14:51:55 yeah the command-line actually suprised me when i first saw it 14:52:03 i didn't expect that kind of control 14:53:12 I was just like "Uh... this can't possibly be that realistic... [cds around and looks at filesystem.] huh. What happens if I delete the OS and tell it to restart? [connection lost.]" and then the machine was dead for the rest of the game! 14:53:34 that was kinda my "holy shit this game is awesome" moment right there 14:54:16 bbl 14:55:29 it was crazy taht you could remove the logfiles via the command-line 14:55:35 you didn't actually need the log-remover frontend 15:11:09 I think I am turning into a troll: "{18, 213, 235, 238, 247, 254} <-- allegory about belief systems" 15:24:09 SimonRC, hm? 15:24:53 nvm 15:30:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:31:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:05:01 ehird`: yeah, the frontend was just more thorough- as I remember, deleting things via commandline still left log entries that the files had been deleted 16:07:48 yeah 16:07:50 so 16:07:54 remove the log directory 16:07:55 :) 16:08:00 hahaha 16:08:05 that works? I never tried it 16:08:25 will it recreate the dir next time it logs something, or does it stay dead? 16:19:52 i dunno 16:19:54 i think it just dies 16:19:57 =) 16:20:45 ah, uplink computers and their fantastic operating system 16:20:53 dies as in doesn't log anything 16:20:57 not dies as in PFFFTKRRRNK 16:21:03 yeah, I got what you mean 16:21:11 which is frickin' awesome 16:21:34 if only it wasn't so damn hard to get a commandline for more than a handful of seconds most of the time 16:21:40 yeah 16:22:43 I've routed through just about every computer on InterNIC, and those bastards can still track me down in no time flat! The best ones to route through are government systems or banks, I've found. 16:22:46 i never actually got on to the storyline, hah 16:22:57 it just never came 16:23:14 me neither. I have way too much fun just playing around, not entirely unlike how I play the Grand Theft Auto series 16:23:27 neat trick for becoming rich in Uplink: 16:23:31 it's weird, though, i did everything i had to do, 16:23:35 but the email from ARC never came 16:23:48 though if i were to play the storyline 16:23:55 i would so fscking release that virus all over the net :D 16:24:04 you get to see it destroy every connected computer through red dots ;) 16:24:57 - crack a bank. Steal shit-tons of money and put it in your Uplink accounts. The banks will immediately begin a slow trace that will ruin your shit when it gets to you. Route through a bunch of targets, do a legit series of transactions between several accounts to get your money laundered, and then store it in an account you remember. Proceed to cover your tracks like hell. 16:25:12 then, the original bank will catch you, and you'll lose your uplink account 16:25:33 heh 16:25:37 create a new account, connect to the bank you stashed your money in, and make a withdrawl 16:25:48 wow, it carries across acounts? 16:25:49 that IS neat 16:25:54 bing-bam-kaching, buy all your tools and a better gateway and you're set 16:26:11 yeah, some stuff remains persistent 16:26:55 Uplink is the *only* game where I've ever seen anything close to that 16:27:32 you can also sometimes store your hacking utilities on machines you crack, but it needs to be something low security like InterNIC or the Uplink Test Server. 16:27:41 backups are good when software costs money 16:28:19 I often stash code on the test server if I don't have enough storage for all my utilities, and then I can retrieve them later 16:28:25 its amazing how open Introversion are 16:28:34 the dev CD for uplink, the fact that they support linux, windows and os x 16:28:36 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:28:50 well, Ambrosia handles all the OSX ports 16:29:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:29:42 yes -- but on the disk, there is ALL THREE 16:29:53 one purchase, you have the version for each OS, right there 16:30:00 no other game company that i know does that 16:30:32 Blizzard does 2/3, but yeah. Introversion kicks so much ass. 16:30:50 * Sgeo doesn't like buying stuff 16:30:50 They make games so utterly unlike anything else... it's really inspiring 16:31:18 I should direct my cash in their direction 16:31:20 Support independent game developers. 16:31:38 I'm thinking about buying Defcon- the demo was amazing 16:32:15 Sgeo: this is why people complain about capitalism... lazy people. 16:33:06 i'm not going to say "stop" to anyone who pirates games or anything... but if it's an indie developer, you really owe it to them 16:33:10 Introversion makes wonderful things, and their games are inexpensive. They deserve money. 16:34:14 I know a bunch of assholes that'll buy a legit copy of Halo and turn around and pirate a copy of Uplink. It makes me sick. Bungie/MS don't feel it when their shitty games are pirated, but independent developers get the screw 16:35:58 its really quite a difficult subject... 16:36:19 there is a car cloning machine which you can simply point at a car from any range, and you immediately get your own. the cloner is free. 16:36:24 yet, car companies --big and small-- still sell cars. 16:36:28 I don't pirate software myself at all. 16:36:34 is it "stealing" to use the cloner device on a car? 16:37:04 Stealing from the company that invested time and money to design the car, perhaps 16:37:31 but the car analogy is really terrible for software discussions 16:38:30 replace car with anything you want 16:38:58 I think the main reason most people pirate software is the bastard self-important sense of entitlement everyone seems to have these days. "I pirate music because I can't afford it". THEN DON'T LISTEN TO MUSIC, YOU BASTARD- IT'S A LUXURY, NOT A NECESSITY! YOU DO NOT DESERVE FREE MUSIC! 16:39:38 * ehird` pirates music because he is an asshole, but agrees in principle ;) 16:39:39 nobody *deserves* free anything on the internet, it's just what they've become accustomed to. 16:40:17 god forbid anyone try to profit from their own creative energies and labor if they so choose 16:41:28 i do make a point to buy albums i like when i get the chance 16:41:43 It pisses me off tremendously when people steal music, games and software programs, justifying their actions by saying they can't afford to buy them. 16:41:46 if I pirate an album, really like it, then if I see it for a reasonable price I will buy it 16:42:53 I pay for my music via iTunes, and if I don't feel like paying money for music, I turn to one of the many sources of genuinely free sources of music on the internet, like creative commons stuff and the modarchive 16:43:02 it helps if you like chiptunes 16:43:12 I do not buy iTunes music because I do not enjoy DRM. 16:43:36 I use the iTunes player, though, because 1. it's good 2. it can play gaplessly 3. it's the only decent one for OS X 16:43:57 * GregorR wonders if anybody cares at all about his awesome MISC environment :P 16:44:22 ehird`: For an additional fee, you can buy DRM-free music on iTunes. 16:44:32 ... Only for some albums. 16:44:41 Specifically, EMI albums. 16:44:50 it's only for some record labels, but more often than not I can buy what I want that way 16:44:57 "Recorded in 1902, this album is now out of copyright!" 16:45:21 GregorR: enjoy your pre-wax-cylenders 16:45:34 *cylinder 16:45:40 Pff, that's not an accurate assessment, they had wax cylinders <1900 16:45:45 ouch, that misspelling brought me pain 16:45:48 RodgerTheGreat: I do not listen to many mainstream bands, the (3?) labels participating are all major labels. 16:49:17 RodgerTheGreat: Also, it could be a piano roll :) 16:49:34 GregorR: alright, fair enough- didn't think of that 16:53:07 -!- bsmntbom2dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 16:54:31 bbl 16:58:56 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:59:06 -!- jix has joined. 16:59:07 i pirate music without justifying my actions 16:59:56 ditto! 16:59:57 :) 17:03:53 I justify my action ... my justification is "fuck you I'm taking this" 17:04:04 we're a bunch of commies! ;) 17:04:05 or not. 17:08:16 * GregorR actually has no illegal music :P 17:08:45 like, music where outlaws sing about killing people? 17:08:57 That's perfectly legal music. 17:09:01 It's called rap. 17:09:04 no, music whose tonal structure embeds the HD key 17:10:25 * GregorR wonders if anybody cares at all about his awesome MISC environment :P 17:10:31 * GregorR enjoys repeating himself. 17:12:22 GregorR: do tel, then 17:12:35 also... who's on windows? http://www.gamersquarter.com/tennisfortwo/ tennis for two simulator with internet play! 17:12:43 i'll put up a server if anyone wants 17:12:53 no one's on windows 17:13:17 I made an ASM language for MISC, and implemented basic math primitives with C preproc defines, so now writing MISC code is aaaaaaaaalmost like any other RISC. 17:13:24 The advantage? None! But it's amusing :P 17:13:44 bsmntbombdood: i'm not on here for long :P 17:29:19 http://www.codu.org/miscdocs/ 17:39:09 GregorR, being amusing is an advantage >.> 17:43:18 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:43:42 Well, another advantage is that it's not totally unrealistic to imagine a GCC backend. 17:44:04 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:44:19 Unlike BF, which is not only registerless but exceedingly register-emulation-unfriendly :P 17:44:54 In MISC, I just reserved 0xFFFExxxx and called a few of them registers. 17:47:08 what is the instruction? 17:47:30 Subtract and branch if negative. 17:47:38 See http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/MISC 17:47:48 and that needs 4 arguments how? 17:48:38 Arithmetic destination, source 1, source 2, branch target 17:48:54 It's dest = src1 - src2, not a = a - b 17:49:22 Admittedly, MISC is pretty lavish for an OISC ;) 17:52:13 the best one I have seen is the one with "reverse subtract and skip if negative", I think 17:52:32 you have to do jumps by modifying the IP 17:53:12 The IP isn't memory-mapped in MISC. 17:53:27 You do conditional jumps by writing to the branch target of the next instruction. 17:53:41 hey! subskin is classified as a tarpit! 17:53:59 GregorR: the pipeline-engineers are going to love that 17:54:27 I like MISC independent of esotericity - in all seriousness, this could be implemented with a processor smaller than the head of a pin, and is fully TC (within the limits of bounded memory) 17:55:57 * GregorR imagines MISC nanobots. 17:57:20 GregorR: do you want to get Dugg? 17:57:38 Not desperately :P 17:57:56 Ha ChooseMyHat been dugg yet? 17:58:02 O_O 17:58:08 Maybe THAT'S why I got 75 votes yesterday! 18:03:27 no, nobody has 18:03:29 just fyi 18:05:32 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:08:49 Then why DID I get 75 votes yesterday X-D 18:09:10 it is being passed around, maybe 18:09:26 But it was just for that /one day/. 18:14:00 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 18:26:46 someone used a bot 18:31:37 It logs IPs. 18:31:47 Somebody used a botnet, maybe. 18:31:53 But it seems like a waste of a botnet ;P 18:32:06 It's a DUOS - Distributed Use of Service 18:35:06 GregorR: digg it 18:35:08 you must 18:35:31 I refuse to digg. 18:35:35 It's against my principles. 18:35:41 no 18:35:43 you must 18:35:55 Mainly, the principle of using people who aren't me to filter digg for me :P 18:37:24 Why don't /you/ digg it :P 18:38:01 reddit it! 18:38:04 redd-it! 18:38:21 I refuse to reddit. 18:38:26 It's against my principles. 18:38:36 Mainly, the principle of using people who aren't me to filter reddit for me :P 18:38:43 Why don't /you/ reddit it :P 18:39:27 I have returned 18:39:33 i might just reddit it 18:39:35 OH, ONE PROBLEM 18:39:44 i have 1 karma thus ensuring nobody will vote it up 18:39:44 :P 18:40:22 karma? 18:41:34 Reddit has an infinitely obscure algorithm for devaluating the submissions of people who submit too much. 18:41:37 Two is too much. 18:41:57 Correct me if I'm wrong, that's entirely heresay :P 18:42:05 *hearsay >_> 18:42:16 Feel free to correct my spelling of hearsay if it's wrong as well :P 18:42:18 infinitely obscure... 18:42:24 * SimonRC goes to dinner 18:42:27 I think I like this phrase 18:42:48 you are wrong GregorR 18:42:51 karma is good 18:42:56 it goes up when more people vote you up 18:43:01 it is, of course, highly teasured 18:43:13 I didn't say that positive karma = too many submissions 18:43:21 the joke is that people will instinctively downvote anyone with a low karma, which is of course false 18:46:14 If somebody with negative karma downvotes you, does that increase your karma? :P 18:46:35 :P 18:51:49 That would be interesting. There would be huge amounts of churn as karmas flew around zero, and then random people would find themselves with high enough karma that they could really start building it up :P 18:51:58 I'll call it the "ridiculously terrible karma system" :P 18:52:29 positive karma + modup = karma boost. negative karma + moddown = smaller karma boost? 18:54:44 that's kinda stupid though 18:55:02 * ehird` has toyed with a hypothetical link site in the past 18:55:30 it's kind of like a blend between the selectivity and summaries of slashdot (but shorter and to-the-point), the efficiency of reddit, and some parts from digg 18:55:32 it is very nice 18:56:18 hm 19:01:08 -!- boily has joined. 19:02:16 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 19:07:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:13:08 hmm 19:13:10 :P 19:13:45 I don't suppose anybody has actual /comments/ on my MISC syntax? 19:14:59 nope! 19:15:35 Is that because it's extremely perfect? 19:18:18 GregorR: i'm just assuming it's perfect 19:18:39 wanna link it once again? ;) 19:19:04 http://www.codu.org/miscdocs/ 19:19:19 On the one hand, it's legit to assume anything I wrote is perfect, but on the other hand I could use comments. 19:22:58 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 19:25:23 seems nice, although i don't have time to have a close look 19:25:32 can i have an interpreter for that or smth? 19:25:43 there's a girl sitting next to me <_< 19:25:56 although i didn't play much with that urinal thing once you said you were sure it's pretty useless 19:26:01 oklopol: Depends on whether you A) have a D+Tango compiler or B) will take a binary. 19:26:07 bsmntbom1dood: touch her and tell us how it felt 19:26:18 oklopol: The Order of Urinals is not, as it turns out, Turing Complete :( 19:26:19 GregorR: binary, sure 19:26:24 yep :< 19:26:29 oklopol: Platform? 19:26:29 you actually proved it? 19:26:32 ha 19:26:34 no. 19:26:36 win/ubuntu 19:26:52 oklopol: No, I din't write a proof per se, I just dug myself into a corner. 19:26:59 bsmntbom1dood: touched, but won't tell? :< 19:27:19 GregorR: not sure what that means :| 19:27:27 i think i made a proof of some sort myself 19:27:30 i tend to not touch random people 19:28:05 oh em gee, she asked me for some paper 19:28:25 bsmntbom1dood: BE MORE PATHETIC 19:28:30 xD 19:28:41 you're on the internet, we make jokes about patheticness 19:28:43 get with the program 19:28:44 ;) 19:28:44 i usually stare at girls 19:28:57 if i get the chance 19:28:59 GregorR: i don't think that's possible 19:30:00 oklopol: http://www.codu.org/misc/ <-- includes binaries for GNU/Linux 19:32:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:32:19 thanks, i'll try and find a use for that :P 19:32:19 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 19:32:43 Well you asked for it X-P 19:33:04 i wasn't being sarcastic in any way :) 19:33:07 now a guy came 19:33:22 omg, there's no one here with me 19:33:23 he's sitting across the room 19:33:29 omg another girl 19:33:30 my room is empty :< 19:33:36 where are you? 19:34:04 in a roo 19:34:06 m 19:34:14 aaw, now a teacher came in 19:34:32 female? 19:34:35 yes 19:34:46 Hahahahah, you're even more pathetic than I thought X-D 19:34:46 what size? 19:34:50 what size? 19:34:54 boobies 19:35:04 dunno 19:35:08 oh :( 19:35:10 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay, escaping this conversation. *fwoom* 19:35:13 :) 19:37:09 now there's 5 people 19:37:19 no one here still 19:37:44 bsmntbombdood: what's the purpose of that room? 19:38:00 are you listening to the teacher or does there just happen to be a teacher in the room? 19:38:04 I'm sitting in a cubicle. I'm alone in my cubicle. It's extremely exciting. 19:38:13 Probably a computer lab. 19:38:35 i'm sitting in my armchair, eating chicken 19:38:52 i think they call it a "group study" room 19:38:56 it's for the program i'm in 19:39:01 (oklopol named his dog "chicken") 19:39:10 and the teacher isn't teaching 19:39:18 yeah, indeed that's funnier if you know that 19:39:25 chicken is my dog 19:39:46 bsmntbombdood: so you're studying now? 19:39:50 no 19:39:58 i probably should be though 19:39:59 i am now going to get a chicken 19:40:01 and name it dog 19:40:09 And eat it. 19:40:13 i have 7 chickens 19:40:13 yes 19:40:16 and claim to be eating dog 19:40:40 I'm going to get a chicken and name it "Filipino child" 19:41:15 i'm going to get a gregor and name it "george" 19:41:54 i'm going to get a PC and name it "mac" 19:42:18 i'm going to get a penis and not give it a name 19:42:22 oh wait, i did 19:43:17 i love it how every joke must be exhausted until the original subject (though there wasn't one this time) gets forgotten 19:43:58 well, actually not sure if that's ever happened, but you'd think 19:44:05 1st Law of IRCodynamics: Every conversation approaches maximum penis-reference. 19:44:16 Err, 2nd Law 19:44:26 I don't penis that actually happens. 19:44:29 I penis that's just a penis. 19:44:32 interesting turn! my mom was here for a few seconds 19:44:57 Let's test these laws. 19:45:07 I like chicken! Which chicken, the species or the dog? You decide! 19:45:11 Penis are penis other penis? 19:45:15 Penis. 19:45:23 Penis penis penis? 19:46:13 GregorR: your mom was with your penis? 19:46:22 bsmntbombdood: Penis. 19:46:35 hawt 19:47:25 hehe, epic 19:50:34 b0r3d 19:52:34 b0n3d 19:53:34 Heh, I just realized that my MISC #define will go into an infinite loop if you divide by zero :P 19:53:41 Erm, #define DIV that is. 19:53:52 zomg, boobies 19:54:35 Just thrust your face into 'em and see what she does. 19:56:06 i don't think taht will end well 19:56:34 DOIIIIIIIIIIIIT 19:56:36 DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT 19:56:47 * GregorR leaves for lunch while you get expelled. 19:59:22 * bsmntbombdood is drinking soe water 20:09:35 soe water? 20:09:35 :P 20:09:48 some water 20:13:33 obviously 20:13:36 i was poking fun 20:14:05 I WAS POKING POON 20:14:07 oops 20:14:44 i should make a game maker program with an actually *good* scripting language 20:15:06 i kinda sucks when the language is something like actionscript that doesn't allow *anything* to made easily 20:15:10 *it kinda 20:17:02 to be honest i haven't really checked out other than flash, game maker and games factory, and flash isn't really made especially for games 20:26:36 pygame! 20:26:38 although, it's not the same 20:26:41 but game making programs suck 20:26:49 yeah, that was my point 20:27:12 you could actually make a language with game programming in mind 20:27:16 2d that is. 20:27:32 i don't care for 3d 20:27:35 :P 20:27:40 http://dagobah.biz/flash/linegame.swf 20:28:10 that should be like 10 lines max 20:31:04 (the movements of the worm i mean) 20:31:15 might be a bit hard to get the levels in 10 lines :P 20:31:38 that does not look 10 lines ;P 20:31:41 however 20:31:45 i am interested in game-oriented stuff 20:31:51 maybe i should kind of pack this into an experimental language 20:31:51 the movement doesn't? 20:32:03 my turing complete regex-alikes which i discussed with oerjan earlier 20:32:11 graphics-oriented stuff like game stuff 20:32:12 with oerjan? 20:32:14 hmm 20:32:17 yeah, earlier today 20:32:23 today in the GMT sense, its 20:40 here 20:33:35 unless you mean ais, i don't have the logs i guess :< 20:34:06 both 20:34:08 you had a long talk with ais, but you also did with oerjan? 20:34:10 oh 20:34:11 hmm... 20:34:12 it started ais, then oerjan cut in 20:34:39 look at the ircbrowse.com logs 20:34:40 in topic 20:35:08 also, that line game is impossible 20:35:09 :p 20:35:31 i'm doing the hardest level with keyboard 20:35:45 i get to the second rotating thingie 20:35:56 i did 20 seconds on "a" 20:35:57 with keyboard 20:36:04 mouse is impossible 20:36:50 b is impossible 20:36:59 okay 20:37:04 i can't find it in the logs either. 20:37:33 also, i do have a lot over 24h of logs showing here, so... 20:37:55 anyways, i guess that's beside the point 20:37:59 search for regexps 20:38:05 and then scroll up 20:38:10 it is really quite interesting 20:38:10 i just read everything oerjan has said 20:38:25 i discussed my own ideas too 20:39:13 i've read the logs, of course 20:39:24 but really, show me oerjan, this is getting scary :P 20:40:33 search regexp 20:41:21 but... i've read your and ais523's conversation :< 20:41:29 i really see no oerjan 20:41:54 also, i did search for "rexexp", twice, and scrolled the whole conversation. 20:42:01 WTF? 20:42:03 Line game? 20:42:17 yeah, pretty great, ain't it 20:42:56 on the subject of flash games 20:42:57 http://dagobah.biz/flash/Cursor_Invisible.swf 20:44:50 146 20:45:07 god my heart is pounding 20:45:10 i always get like one pixel off after 76 20:45:14 heh 20:45:26 ehird`: That game is extremely easy on a tablet PC :P 20:45:35 i have a touchpad 20:45:37 XD 20:45:40 you bet GregorR 20:46:18 hmm... why is it easy? 20:46:54 (GregorR) WTF? 20:46:57 (GregorR) Line game? 20:47:00 what did you mean? :D 20:47:12 I meant "WTF? Line game?" 20:47:21 ...because? 20:47:28 wtf @ what? :| 20:47:43 rrrrthats5rs.com <-- most deliberately confusing domain name ever 20:47:44 hmm... is there something weird @ line games? 20:47:56 also, that line game is impossible 20:48:11 tnhe line game oklopol linked to 20:48:17 http://dagobah.biz/flash/linegame.swf 20:48:26 Oh. Heh, missed the URL 8-X 20:49:45 Wow, that line game is extremely difficult. 20:50:03 aaaand another: http://dagobah.biz/flash/Particles.swf 20:50:04 and no it isn't 20:50:06 hint: use keyboard 20:50:08 and go slow 20:50:12 do not hold up all the time 20:50:21 never slow! always to the MAX 20:50:21 I thought there was a time limit? 20:50:26 nope 20:50:41 but you can beat your time of course 20:55:11 how the fuck do ppl get under 9 @ a... 20:55:51 http://dagobah.biz/flash/Smash2_final.swf crazy breakout game 20:57:32 (hint: you can go up and down, it's kind of like tennis) 21:04:34 http://dagobah.biz/flash/jeu_chiant.swf Is it just me or is this impossibl;e 21:09:34 * oklopol TRIES 21:10:57 how many seconds do you get? 21:11:23 like 21:11:24 7 21:11:30 oh 21:11:34 pretty easy till 30 21:12:27 http://www.codu.org/evilpong/ < man this game rocks 21:14:08 i don't have a big enough resolution 21:14:10 :< 21:18:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:19:14 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:19:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:21:40 GregorR: that's pretty amazing 21:22:35 yeah, 2 hours of flash games again, that was point-free :) 21:22:39 gotta eat something 21:22:43 ...and play some more i guess 21:22:51 oklopol: EVIL Pong! isn't a flash game, it's all JS :) 21:22:56 same thing 21:22:57 :) 21:23:00 i mean, game. 21:23:01 :P 21:23:13 also, *script, anyway 21:24:09 i'm still wondering where the conversation with oerjan was... 21:31:51 back 21:32:53 GregorR: out of curiosity 21:33:07 why the overblown home page for a really simple JS game that will have taken about 15 minutes to make? :-) 21:35:06 Because it's an AWESOME simple JS game that would have taken about 15 minutes to make. 21:35:18 :DSDSDD 21:36:39 its not very hard :P 21:36:41 or challenging 21:36:50 how many points did you get? 21:36:54 It is when you go past the first five points. 21:37:04 i just got 12 :< 21:52:56 http://dagobah.biz/flash/Keep_an_Idiot_Busy.swf God damnit! I can't stop! 21:53:16 WOW 21:53:18 I clicked one! 21:53:53 what 21:54:20 what 21:54:54 when you click one it turns to 2 more times 21:54:56 then 1 more time 21:54:57 then i dont know 21:55:59 it disappears 21:56:01 now for the 2 others 21:56:17 Seems like another game that would be great on a tablet PC X-P 21:56:40 :P 21:56:41 try it 21:56:44 tell me whats at the end 21:56:56 <-- at work 21:57:25 2 to go! 21:58:05 1 to go 21:58:40 LAME 21:58:47 it just tells you that you just have too much time on your hands 22:00:12 Hahahhaha 22:00:21 Be proud :P 22:01:44 so who thinks this "experimental language" is a good idea 22:02:07 right now, it'd have as unique things: that amazing, warped TC regexp language AND many graphical features useful for games (re: oklopol) 22:02:09 not just for games of course 22:02:15 but plenty of constructs that make them easy 22:02:33 Experimental as in not designed to be esoteric, presumably? 22:05:36 esoterica will follow naturally when you have a regexp language as insane and simple graphics+input controls built right in# 22:06:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:07:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:08:56 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:22:48 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:29:22 =) 22:40:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:45:21 -!- sekhmet has left (?). 22:53:28 -!- sekhmet has joined. 23:07:02 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 23:20:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:43:29 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 23:46:57 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:55:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2007-10-04: 00:12:59 hey oklopol i found a working mic 00:17:50 omg! 00:18:00 audio orgy time 00:18:07 i have a test in 6 hours. 00:18:25 asdasdasd 00:19:39 what was i supposed to record? 00:20:35 an orgy? 00:21:36 i guess it was that finnish clip i did for you 00:21:40 lament sounds like the orgy kinda person 00:21:47 lament: i'm fairly sure that's the term 00:22:07 we should have an esoteric orgy sometime 00:22:16 all #esoteric! 00:22:47 i don't want to participate in any orgy with male to female ratio higher than 50% 00:22:50 make that 30% 00:22:52 that'd be cool 00:23:06 laaaame 00:25:07 okay, lament's out, i'm assuming everyone else is with? 00:25:34 bsmntbombdood: if you have the clip, do record it 00:25:41 what clip? 00:25:57 the one with me saying something 00:26:13 what did you say? 00:26:50 hmm 00:26:58 i said something about a chainsaw 00:27:04 aah yes 00:27:18 fuck me gently with a chainsaw. i like the way the blades feel on my genitals 00:29:17 yeah 00:29:27 abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/foo.wav 00:29:31 thazzit, motto for the orgy 00:30:09 well yeah, but say that in finnish :D 00:30:16 * oerjan thinks he's out too at this point :D 00:30:41 oerjan: i promise i'll keep the chainsaw away from your genitals 00:32:47 bsmntbombdood: in finnish, please! 00:32:55 but i don't speak finnish 00:34:00 ...and that's why i wanna hear you pronounce it of course 00:34:07 though might be too hard to even try :P 00:34:12 have no idea 00:34:16 so write it 00:34:19 ah 00:34:22 and i'll try 00:34:28 i thought you had the clip of me saying it 00:34:29 yksi kaksi kolme koskenkorva perkele 00:34:35 :D 00:34:48 what's that mean? 00:35:28 one two three spirit fuck 00:35:33 okay 00:35:41 that was one lame-ass translation 00:35:58 fuck? i thought it was satan. a swearword anyhow. 00:36:21 yeah 00:36:33 well, it can mean satan, but satan isn't a curseword... 00:36:53 it is in norwegian. 00:36:55 should i say that? 00:37:09 actually, it was a finnish god (err... or a synonym for thor perhaps), but it was later thought to mean "satan", since it was a pagan god 00:37:44 bsmntbombdood: sure, but you can't pronounce it right from that, since finnish has a different (better) writing system 00:38:52 i didn't think the finnish gods were identified with the norse ones, but i wouldn't really know 00:39:03 abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/foo2.wav 00:40:32 well, all i know is perkele was a pagan god of some sorts, the god of thunder i guess (like thor, no?) 00:40:38 i don't know anything about history 00:41:00 how bad did i pronounce it? 00:41:36 wait, my parents are here for some reason, and one of them is using the bathroom, so i'm trying to be silent :DSDSD 00:41:56 so my mom doesn't get mad! 00:42:23 i guess she wouldn't 00:42:26 i'll listen 00:42:57 no earphones? 00:43:04 heh, you pronounced it as if it was english, as i assumed you would :P 00:43:25 considering english is the only language i know... 00:43:27 "prkeli" is what you pronounced "perkele" as 00:43:43 yeah, that's why i thought an example might be better :P 00:43:58 and i made that clip for just that purpose 00:44:20 the numbers were close 00:44:30 and koskenkorva, i guess 00:44:55 i can make the "correct" one and send it? :) 00:45:16 i can't judge you by that since you can have absolutely no idea how to pronounce that 00:45:47 perkele!!! 00:47:44 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/r/perkele.wav 00:48:08 perrrrrrkelay 00:48:20 yeah, different r :P 00:48:50 also, k, p and t aren't aspirated, try to remember that 00:49:17 5 hours... 00:50:26 it's only been 32 minutes since you said 6 hours 00:51:43 both were heavily rounded 00:51:46 he is in a different timezone you know. 00:51:52 err yeah! 00:51:56 probably time dilation, or something. 00:52:02 don't you know anything about physics, bsmntbombdood 00:52:36 that's also why he can talk so much more than the rest of us. 00:52:44 :D 00:54:10 it seems i speak twice as much as others, on average 00:54:32 i've heard that's a sign of stupidity 00:54:37 i'll happily sign that ;) 01:14:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:14:12 [re: orgy :P] I believe that an orgy of this channel would have a male-female ratio of about infinity% 01:14:23 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:14:57 GregorR: yes, since any females around are rather unlikely to participate 01:15:05 GregorR: in fact, in the end it will probably be just oklopol :) 01:15:27 Well, add one female and this gay orgy becomes a gang-bang, and that's just not fair. 01:18:12 i'm pretty sure bsmntbombdood would join :) 01:18:35 of course 01:18:39 see? 01:19:04 is it still qualified as an orgy with 2 ppl? :| 01:19:11 * oerjan tries to find a link for that old joke but gets only porn links 01:19:29 ok, now i have 4 hours, and i already postponed my alarm... 01:19:30 If you find porn links to two-person orgies, you've got your answer :P 01:19:48 i think there's only one female that's ever been in this channel 01:19:55 and she's not even here any more 01:20:19 and i also think she said she was lesbian 01:20:25 really? 01:20:38 i have pretty long hair 01:22:00 there can be many reasons for saying one is lesbian, of course 01:22:36 except of course, i guess any stalker-type will find that even more exciting 01:23:26 asdasdasdasdasd can the effects of caffeine be removed somehow? :< 01:23:32 well, given that you probably need pretty low intelligence to stalk in the first place... 01:24:00 (not necessarily the IQ kind of intelligence) 01:24:07 :P 01:24:38 oklopol: you need to drink klatchian liquor, iirc 01:24:45 i've never claimed to be intelligent! 01:25:02 hmm 01:25:09 that expensive? 01:25:30 "Jag r intelligent." "Inte jag heller!" 01:25:37 swedish? 01:25:39 more like non-existent 01:25:50 :< 01:25:52 (it's from the Discworld series) 01:25:57 i see, i see 01:26:06 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 01:26:10 oerjan: what's the point of that joke? 01:26:20 i do understand the actual meaning, but don't get it :D 01:26:47 oklopol: the second person doesn't know intelligent is one word 01:27:08 so, parses as jag r inte ligent? 01:27:32 it's the one swedish joke the swedish cannot properly turn around on us norwegians. 01:27:42 ikke jeg heller 01:27:50 hmph, wish i knew norwegian... 01:27:54 see, doesn't work 01:27:59 that was correct 01:28:06 omg 01:28:39 i had no idea about "heller" :P 01:29:00 those might well be the only norwegian words i know 01:29:03 i am not quite sure "heller" is right in swedish myself 01:29:09 it is 01:29:30 although now that you said that, i'm beginning to doubt it 01:30:36 i suspect it should be "hellre" 01:30:44 hellre is rather 01:31:10 jag skulle hellre ta en appel n min mamma 01:31:28 hmm... 01:31:33 in norwegian, heller is both 01:31:37 i'm *pretty* sure about that 01:31:58 is that a joke too? :) 01:32:04 ambiguous reference 01:32:06 it was a random sentence :D 01:32:15 but yeah 01:32:26 it seems i stumbled upon an ambigous sentence. 01:32:53 but, given that i actually meant i'd rather eat an apple, than eat my mother, i certainly didn't get it myself. 01:33:36 * oerjan must never underestimate oklopol's sickness 01:33:55 btw google seems to agree with "inte jag heller" 01:34:41 i can't say anything sick in swedish, too little vocabulary :< 01:35:02 and is completely inconclusive on "jag vil heller" vs. "jag vil hellre" 01:35:07 actualy, i can't really say anything 01:35:15 try vill 01:35:22 also 01:35:25 what does that mean? 01:35:28 "me too"? 01:35:36 jag skulle hellre wins 01:35:45 all i know in swedish is "i want to love russian girls" 01:35:55 hmm... try saying it in english, oerjan :) 01:36:21 heller = either, hellre = rather iiuc 01:36:32 "wins"? 01:36:42 oh, like "win" 01:36:43 ? 01:36:50 it's "vinna" 01:37:00 er, that was english 01:37:03 oh 01:37:08 a'dskf 01:37:09 xD 01:37:17 i.e "jag skulle hellre" wins vs. "jag skulle heller" 01:37:18 sorry, i lack both kinds of intelligense. 01:37:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:37:30 x 01:37:31 c 01:37:41 -!- molchuvka_ has joined. 01:38:24 "jag vil heller" and "jag vil hellre" might be inconclusive because both are pretty rare in swedish 01:38:41 hard to find a usage-case for latter, and i think first doesn't have one 01:38:53 * oklopol hopes no one swedish appears... 01:41:13 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:41:37 i has carbonated malt barley beverage flavored with hops! 01:42:00 is that fancy talk for beer? 01:42:34 yes 01:42:39 malt, barley, hops, water 01:43:05 er wait 01:43:14 malt is from barley isn't it 01:43:22 yes 01:43:32 s/malt,/malt/ 01:43:34 yeast is the fourth 01:44:03 in some places, those were the only four ingredients allowed in beer 01:44:07 hehe, we once made beer with a few friends in their basement xD 01:44:14 sooo sneaky business 01:44:30 LSD beer? 01:44:40 water, yeast, barley, hops and LSD 01:44:49 sure. 01:45:02 oerjan: wheat beer is beer too! 01:45:22 that law was repealed in Germany 1987, Norway 1994 01:45:31 (http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98l) 01:46:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot 01:48:17 what's 1 Pfennig worth? 01:49:04 i think it was about one cent 01:49:15 2 pints of beer for one cent?!?! 01:49:27 hmm... 01:50:00 i may be wrong, i just remember german mark was about 6 finnish marks, and that euro/mark = 5.94573 01:50:25 so what else do they put in beer these days? 01:50:33 sex 01:50:39 and a bit of happiness 01:51:23 1 Mark = 100 Pfennigs from 1873 - 2001 01:51:53 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfennig) 01:53:03 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 01:53:07 what's a mark worth? 01:53:22 there is no mark 01:54:03 there is a past though, so i guess you can ask that 01:54:31 bsmntbombdood: just follow the wikipedia links 01:55:02 also, there was an official conversion from Mark to Euro 01:56:34 which oklopol mentioned 02:00:01 Yay, the audio on my olde tablet works ^^ 02:18:06 ramen! 02:19:12 clearly, this would be what the ancient egyptians said after getting their tablets to work. 02:21:01 or when they ate dinner 02:39:02 -!- molchuvka has joined. 02:57:20 -!- molchuvka_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:18:14 asdfghjkl;' 03:29:11 ./me asda 03:40:54 :)()/ 03:46:55 ラーメン 03:46:56 . 03:52:44 I feel so cool 03:52:46 I'm using zmodem :P 03:54:12 mmm, eggs with chipotle sauce 04:08:07 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 04:18:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:19:37 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:26:26 I have a hardware choroflam 8-D 04:27:28 aka "semen" 04:29:58 argh, what's wrong with me 04:30:05 i better sacrifice some semen to the gods 04:40:59 Interesting diety. 04:46:53 Probably Japanese *shrugs* 04:47:35 What, the Japanese bukakke god? 04:47:53 the japanese have a god of bukakke? 04:47:55 that's pretty hot 04:48:01 分脚気の神さま? 04:48:08 No. . . But they do now. 04:48:34 Their mythology is somewhat flexible. :p 04:48:57 Sorry, that Japanese is wrong. 04:49:27 ブッカケの神さま。 05:13:57 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 05:24:31 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:03:42 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:13:32 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 07:25:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:33:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 07:36:45 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:37:38 -!- wooby has joined. 07:37:43 f2k2 07:37:46 ahoy 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:11:51 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:19:07 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 08:44:43 -!- jix has joined. 08:56:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:28:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, *GreaseMonkey* kills a kitten."). 10:10:19 i think i have to get something really esoteric for an alarm clock, i'm not sure missing every other test is a good thing 10:10:48 would be nice to get nails to stick out of the bed or something 10:11:16 "bukkake" 10:27:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 10:28:04 -!- bichito has joined. 10:28:44 alguien en espaol? 10:29:10 -!- bichito has left (?). 10:30:19 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:41:16 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 11:07:00 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:17:11 hmph 11:17:19 nobody discussed TC-regexps overniht 11:17:20 ;) 11:28:09 i've made 2 tc regex systems 11:28:47 hmm... actually just one was tc methinks, but anyways, old news :) 11:29:03 asd mathematics is the real brainfuck 11:55:51 mine was cool though 11:56:05 parsing entire languages with one expression is reasonable in it 11:56:15 it can generate a sensible parse tree too, fit to how you want it 12:07:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:08:21 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 12:12:58 -!- molchuvka_ has joined. 12:27:17 -!- joxy has joined. 12:27:41 -!- molchuvka has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:27:51 -!- joxy has changed nick to molchuvka. 12:39:59 oh well 12:42:12 -!- molchuvka_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:55:41 anyone messed with exact cover and the dancing links approach? 12:55:47 knuth's thing 12:57:46 ehird`: i do believe that 12:57:58 oklopol: ? 12:58:31 but i mean, the general concept has already gotten enough thought, so i think you can only arouse further interest via a spec 12:58:49 ehird`: what you last said, obviously 12:58:54 ah 12:59:08 an hour is a very reasonable delay! 12:59:13 or two... 13:00:42 of course 13:01:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:15:57 -!- jix has joined. 13:29:12 ehird`: If it's Turing complete, it isn't just regex. ;) 13:29:22 regexp meaning 'regexp-alike' :p 14:37:20 -!- yetifoot has joined. 14:37:59 * yetifoot waves at SEO_DUDE38 14:41:39 * ehird` waves at yetifoot 14:42:04 * yetifoot waves back 14:42:54 so i've written a few brainfuck compilers, and interpreters, but what i'm considering is a BASIC 2 brainfuck compiler, has anyone ever attempted something like that before? 14:48:38 to some extent 14:48:50 calamari created a language called BFBASIC 14:49:14 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BFBASIC 14:49:59 writing macrolanguage compilers for BF is a pretty fun exercise, though. You can learn a hell of a lot. 14:50:42 cool, i'll check that out. I'm thinking if i do traditional basic, it will be a bit less hassle, as i will only need to worry about global vars A-Z and not worry about scopes/procs/etc 14:51:36 TinyBASIC, eh? 14:51:54 sounds like fun- you'll definitely be in for a challenge 14:52:00 yeah, hehe, 1976 ftw 14:52:32 i just wrote a tinybasic compiler the other day, but that was pretty easy, just ran interpreted, or made x86 asm 14:52:42 line numbers and gotos may be the most challenging aspect 14:52:51 interesting 14:53:33 yeah, gotos could be bad 14:54:21 you might end up structuring the compiled program like a huge case...select structure, with a block for each "line" 14:54:50 for tinybasic one of the biggest challenges i had was that GOTO and GOSUB can take an expression, like computed gotos, so GOTO A*10 is valid, that's easy enough interpreted, but i never did finish that for compiled 14:55:01 yeah 14:55:20 tricky stuff, but it's one of the most powerful features of the language 14:55:28 yeah 14:55:29 gotta go- bbl 14:55:34 bye 15:04:15 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 15:05:01 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:40:48 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 16:05:30 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:14:45 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 16:15:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:21:31 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:21:33 hello 16:37:21 bye 16:37:22 hi 16:37:23 bye 16:37:26 hi 16:37:28 bye 16:37:29 hi 16:58:58 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:59:08 -!- jix has joined. 17:30:19 -!- und3f has joined. 17:30:22 re 17:30:27 -!- wooby has quit. 17:30:33 -!- Arrogant has joined. 17:30:47 und3f: is that a spam subject line? 17:31:05 no 17:32:38 -!- und3f has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:42:31 -!- und3f has joined. 17:42:37 lags 17:45:42 -!- und3f has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:16:26 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 18:34:19 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 18:50:24 revelation: all IM clients suck 18:52:21 use bitlbee. 18:54:32 revelation: all IRC clients suck 18:55:42 use irssi. 18:56:25 revelation: irssi is pretty sucky too 18:59:36 irssi is the least-sucky 19:04:19 everything sucks 19:04:24 and i can prove it 19:04:27 everybody dies 19:04:30 come on, remove it 19:04:31 ...? 19:05:36 oh, "shuffle on", long time since i listened to sk 19:17:45 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:33:55 -!- ehird` has quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"). 19:37:06 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:53:37 -!- ehird` has joined. 19:55:42 :) 20:03:18 -!- ehird` has quit ("KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"). 20:03:25 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:05:44 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:06:35 a b c d 20:06:37 aabbccdd 20:08:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 20:08:43 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:09:45 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:09:58 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:10:02 sorry for all this spammity 20:11:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:12:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:13:02 should be done 20:13:03 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:13:15 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:15:42 there 20:15:43 :-) 20:21:41 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 20:22:05 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:22:22 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:22:28 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:22:33 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:22:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:23:09 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:23:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:23:19 gahh 20:23:55 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:23:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:24:04 finally 20:27:36 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 20:27:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:31:31 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:33:42 ehird`: did you achieve whatever it is you wanted to achieve? 20:33:49 lament: Possibly. 20:33:50 =/ 20:35:08 * SimonRC goes for dinner. 20:39:06 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 20:49:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:51:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:57:28 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:09:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, *GreaseMonkey* kills a kitten."). 21:15:30 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:15:52 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:27:57 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:36:05 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 21:38:33 bsmntbombdood: i think 1337 should be the new standard for away names 21:38:57 "3h!|>d" = "OH HE'S AWAY" 21:42:53 what? 21:43:21 bsmntbom1dood 21:43:48 that's not an away name 21:44:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:45:17 whatever 21:45:17 ;P 21:46:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:46:19 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:33:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:35:34 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:49:35 ping! 22:50:04 pong 22:50:33 -!- yetifoot has quit ("Leaving"). 22:50:35 ding 22:50:40 dong? 22:51:02 ding :Unknown command 22:51:24 ooh 22:51:28 you're a server of some sort! 22:51:32 lol 22:51:37 exec rm -rf / 22:52:02 wow! 22:52:10 i run this command... 22:52:11 lol 22:52:26 i send it to freenode 22:52:53 23:10:59 -!- Tritonio has quit (Connection timed out). 23:35:03 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:48:44 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 2007-10-05: 00:05:25 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 00:34:48 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 00:45:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:49:03 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:19:06 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 01:20:02 -!- cmeme has joined. 02:21:17 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 02:22:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 02:22:34 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 03:44:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:07:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:54:31 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:26:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:29:53 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 06:33:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 07:36:33 -!- molchuvka has joined. 07:36:41 -!- molchuvka has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:37:32 -!- molchuvka has joined. 07:51:58 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:19:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:20:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:56:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 12:10:06 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:10:31 am i stupid or what.... :-) 12:26:53 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:33:45 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:34:06 ehird`, am i stupid or what? ;-) 12:34:13 Tritonio: ? 12:34:22 exec rm -rf....... 12:34:25 lol 12:34:34 that was yesterday! 12:34:40 you cannot imagine how angry i got with myself..... 12:34:41 why are you talking about things yesterday today! you confuse me! :p 12:34:44 ... 12:34:45 Oh my god. 12:34:48 Did you actually run that? 12:35:01 yeap.... late night stupidness 12:35:09 i really feel stupid now.... 12:35:15 So uh... it WAS a toy box with no data on right...? <_< 12:35:28 (alternatively: "Well, of course you keep backups ... right? >_>") 12:35:33 i simply lost my settings.... 12:35:41 oh, you didn't run it as root 12:35:45 no backups.... ;-) 12:35:45 at least be thankful for that :P 12:35:52 so i simply lost settings 12:35:57 sorry :p 12:35:57 but all programs and data are here 12:36:05 no it's not your fault at all 12:36:15 haha, i just assumed everyone would know what that did 12:36:21 it's just that i i didn't thing that there is an EXEC command 12:36:50 i knew what it does.... i just pressed enter before i realized it 12:36:50 -!- jix has joined. 12:36:53 :-) 12:37:01 haha, "exec ..." replaces the current process with ... 12:37:15 i know i know i forgot. 12:37:19 :P 12:37:44 anyway... but i am so bored to make gedit the editor it was.... I have to make all the sortcuts again... 12:37:50 aww 12:37:51 :( 12:38:07 oh btw do you know how to make ubuntu stop viewing the drives on the desktop? 12:38:17 i don't remember how i did it.... 12:38:21 anyway.... google.... 12:43:29 hoo, i found out who cracked into 'ehird' 12:43:45 or at least, irssi informed me that it was registered to a certain 'test.conf bot', and gave me an email! 12:43:53 so i've sent off an email asking for either my nick back or an explanation 12:44:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:47:11 ??? 12:48:10 what 12:48:33 what do you mean? 12:48:44 "who cracked iinto...." 12:48:54 'ehird' was cracked a while back 12:48:58 why do you think i use ehird`? 12:56:43 :) 13:32:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:33:07 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:34:56 -!- joxy has joined. 13:36:42 -!- joxy has changed nick to molchuvka. 14:34:22 wow, i totally don't get how I made this work ages ago: 14:34:34 fib<-{a<-0 b<-c<-10.<={c<-a+b a<-b b<-c}c} 14:34:44 at least i get how 14:34:48 fib<-{=0=>0->=1=>1->$(-1)+$(-2)} 14:34:50 works 15:12:49 -!- joxy has joined. 15:15:33 -!- molchuvka_ has joined. 15:16:28 -!- molchuvka has quit (Nick collision from services.). 15:16:40 -!- molchuvka_ has changed nick to molchuvka. 15:35:58 -!- joxy has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:36:11 -!- g4lt-sb100 has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 15:49:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:51:29 -!- sekhmet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:51:33 -!- sekhmet has joined. 15:59:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:46:18 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Excess Flood). 17:39:39 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 17:50:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:56:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:05:05 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:05:22 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 19:29:45 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 19:36:19 lots of interesting discussion today... 19:42:10 heh, yeah 19:42:22 have had headache all day 19:43:24 use some drugs 19:44:09 i don't like using drugs for good 19:44:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:44:58 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 19:47:44 i suggest some N-acetyl-para-aminophenol 19:48:34 perhaps acetylsalicylic acid or iso-butyl-propanoic-phenolic acid 19:54:13 ehird`: btw, way to pown Tritonio ;) 19:54:27 ? 19:54:38 Tritonio: the rm thing 19:54:41 oklopol: :P 19:55:00 :-( i feel realy stupid and angry with myself... 19:55:20 hehe, could've happened to me :) 19:59:50 Tritonio: exec :(){ :|:&};: 20:00:08 bsmntbombdood: you bastard 20:00:18 ;-) 20:01:45 yay funny faces 20:01:48 i'm so gonna run that 20:02:39 oklopol: you are joking right 20:03:50 oklopol, what funny faces are you talking about? 20:03:58 Tritonio: :(), :&}, etc 20:04:15 oh ok 20:04:36 has anyone used badsectors? 20:05:29 i tried the -n switch but there is no progress bar and even with my flash drive it takes too long 20:06:15 ehird`: yeah, that's sort of a classic whether you know perl or not 20:06:57 thats not perl 20:06:57 :P 20:07:01 really? 20:07:04 hmm, sorry then 20:07:12 anyways, it *is* a classic 20:08:18 it's shell 20:08:34 sweetifying it, bomb () { bomb | bomb & }; bomb 20:08:36 certainly not perl code 20:09:13 i always thought it was 20:09:16 then | is just pipe? 20:09:37 yeah 20:10:21 what's &? 20:10:25 run in background 20:10:29 you know, when you do program & 20:10:35 and it runs in the background. 20:10:37 yeah 20:10:40 so, in plain english: 20:10:45 TO bomb: 20:10:59 Run bomb, with its output piped into (run bomb)... in the background 20:11:01 eh... thank you for that, i couldn't have managed ;) 20:11:04 END OF bomb 20:11:06 Run bomb 20:12:03 i always wondered how : can be a valid identifier in perl :Pp 20:14:28 i like my apl-like language 20:14:35 otw<-" bottles of beer on the wall"bob<-" bottles of beer.\n"pia<-"Take one down and pass it around, " 20:14:38 99.2<={stdout+=+otw+", "+_+bob+pia+_+otw+".\n"} 20:14:41 stdout+="1 bottle of beer on the wall, 1 bottle of beer.\n"+pia+"no more bottles of beer on the wall.\n" 20:14:44 stdout+="No more"+otw+", no more"+bob+"Go to the store and buy some more, 99"+otw".\n" 20:14:48 it looks like perl line noise, but amplified 20:16:21 http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/j.html 20:16:34 that's not J 20:16:34 not sure what the shortest entry there is, but J is pretty nice at that 20:16:38 really? 20:16:46 nope 20:16:52 i mean, what i pasted isn't 20:17:01 ...orly 20:17:08 its similar to APL/J (J is descended from APL), but it's not either 20:17:11 i know 20:17:32 i recognize your language alright. 20:17:39 you've shown it before 20:17:48 ok 20:17:58 fac<-{<2=>1->*$(-1)} 20:17:59 :) 20:18:02 but anyhows, do you know what the shortest is? 20:18:14 (Alternatively, non-recursive version: fac<-{*(1.)}) 20:18:18 and nope 20:18:43 fac={*_} in oklotalk too :) 20:19:15 i currently also beat J, was gonna start parser tonight, but a friend showed me a math problem and i used almost the whole day on it :< 20:19:23 i mean, beat J at 99bottles 20:19:25 = is used for equality in my language :) 20:19:30 by like 3 characters xD 20:19:38 since, = for assignment might shorten the simplest expressions like these 20:19:50 but using it for equality instead of e.g. == shortens more complex expressions by lots 20:19:59 brb 20:20:28 i could use it for both... the semantics wouldn't get cluttered, but i'll prolly make == for clarity 20:20:51 or then not, clarity is for wimps 20:31:36 i need to learn bash better 20:33:40 i need to learn bash 20:34:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:34:52 I need to unlearn bash and learn a posix shell 20:44:03 while read i; do wget $i -O - 2>/dev/null|mplayer - -cache 8192 -quiet; done; 20:44:16 bash script of the moment 20:45:00 g4lt-mordant: bah. 20:45:01 zsh! 20:48:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:49:44 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:49:54 -!- jix has joined. 21:04:15 =) 21:04:22 stdin<={stdout+<} 21:04:26 actually a pretty nice cat program 21:08:24 furries? 21:09:07 heh 21:09:30 there should be a graphical language where the cat program must look something like a cat 21:09:34 not just an arbitary restriction 21:09:39 but because of the very nature of how you code it 21:09:46 maybe 99bottles -> a bottle (or many) too 21:12:17 :D 21:18:25 who wants to help me think of syntax for my various regexp's features? 21:18:29 *crickets* 22:01:21 i really like my apl language's if syntax 22:01:31 COND => IFTRUE -> IFFALSE 22:01:38 X => Y is just a pair (like lisp cons) 22:01:47 the real function is just X -> Y 22:02:13 just it only takes a list for X, and lazily evaluates its second argument and the cdr of the pair 22:38:42 reminds me a bit of the prolog version, i think it uses -> and ; similarly 22:39:26 my language is so compact and crazy because of the simple fact that infix binary operators default unused arguments to _ (function argument) 22:39:29 :) 22:39:49 also, high abuse of precedence rules 22:42:22 ooh, i just serialized i can shorten by 99bob 22:42:30 ...+_+... is either: 22:42:39 (...+_)+... 22:42:40 or: 22:42:45 wlel 22:42:47 you get the idea 22:42:49 but either way 22:42:50 implicit _ 22:42:58 so x+_+y is just x++y 22:45:33 final version of 99bob: 22:45:33 bow<-" of beer on the wall"otw<-" bottles"+bow bob<-" bottles of beer.\n"pia<-"Take one down and pass it around, " 22:45:37 99.2<={stdout+=+otw+", "++bob+pia++bow+".\n"} 22:45:39 stdout+="1 bottle"+otw+", 1 bottle of beer.\n"+pia+"no more bottles "+otw+".\n" 22:45:42 stdout+="No more"+otw+", no more"+bob+"Go to the store and buy some more, 99"+otw+".\n" 22:45:55 er, s/bow/otw in the <={} 23:21:57 hm 23:22:02 there should be more "ubiquitous programs" 23:22:09 cat, hello world, fac, fib, 99bob isn't enough 23:22:54 i guess i'll do ackermann 23:23:12 ... yikes!! I don't know how to do multiple arguments. 23:23:18 rot13 23:24:23 and of course a quine 23:25:41 i would do a quine, but meh 23:25:46 it'd just be the simple: 23:26:09 q<-{stdout+=+(somehow add ""s and escape quotes here)} 23:26:17 then, you know 23:26:25 just q with everything before the call 23:26:30 not really interesting 23:34:06 mandelbrot set might be interesting... 2007-10-06: 00:00:13 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:08:27 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:10:52 IGNOBLE!!! 01:13:40 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 02:04:56 what???!?!?!?! 02:05:33 jeez i need a better chair 02:10:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("ZZYYXX"). 02:28:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:43:54 "ubiquitous programs". 03:44:11 how about sorts? 04:03:57 seems like implementing a basic sort (heap, bubble or insertion, perhaps) and some other general-purpose algos like counting elements or finding the largest element would be a good test of any language 04:09:03 there's always the brainfuck interpreter 04:09:31 that's a good one, too 06:16:48 woot: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt 06:16:56 171-byte BF interpreter 06:17:35 that's 9121 06:17:45 and not written by you 06:54:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:13:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:42:57 i know i didn't write it but it's impressive 08:43:26 btw, i'm working on AWOS. what are you working on? 09:03:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:22:57 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 09:30:38 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 09:37:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:42:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:51:47 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:51:49 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 10:25:04 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:11:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 11:20:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:22:10 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:07:04 -!- jix has joined. 12:52:07 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 13:02:30 :o 13:11:53 -!- molchuvka has joined. 13:43:56 ! 13:44:00 Huh? 13:44:18 !!!!! 13:44:22 Huh? 13:45:08 -!- molchuvka has quit. 13:48:36 !Huh? 13:48:38 Huh? 14:31:36 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:35:26 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 14:46:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:01:08 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:42:51 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 15:44:51 hi 15:48:51 hi 15:53:43 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:16:34 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:16:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 17:10:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:20:11 hi 17:25:26 * oerjan is sure this new "hi" "Huh" "!" language must be a brainfuck derivative 17:25:48 in the Ook/Moo tradition 17:25:48 it is, actually! 17:25:53 * pikhq agrees with oerjan 17:26:10 (it is, actually! is a command too) 17:26:15 (so is (it is, actually! is a command too)) 17:26:26 fiendish 18:30:01 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 18:30:26 -!- jix has joined. 19:34:38 oerjan: fiendish is also a command 19:50:57 air dish 19:53:29 air dish 20:03:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("Out of here"). 20:47:53 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:48:03 -!- jix has joined. 21:20:31 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:31:24 my dumbass brother drove the riding mower into the ditch 21:33:10 air dish 21:44:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:39:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 2007-10-07: 01:08:29 MISC 01:08:31 GREGOR WUV MISC 01:08:35 [that is all] 01:09:46 wai? 01:09:56 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:14:00 Because MISC is much awesomeness! 01:14:15 Add a few macros and you've got a hell of a sexy, uber-RISCy machine 8-D 01:14:26 Now I just need to design one and implement it in the size of a head of a pin. 01:15:01 Just needs a micro-ALU, three registers and probably an MMU 01:16:47 Some trickiness might get around the requirement of an MMU. 01:19:15 hm. MISC. 01:19:32 that's the architecture we're forced to learn for Computer Organization at my college. 01:19:44 Not that MISC :P 01:19:52 I really wish they taught us something a little more useful, like PPC or ARM. 01:19:54 oh 01:20:16 MISC is an overloaded namespace. MISC means Minimal Instruction Set Computer, but most things called MISCs aren't truly minimal in the absolute sense, just minimal in the "pretty damn small" sense. 01:20:25 The MISC I'm talking about (on esolangs.org) has one instruction. 01:21:26 oh. sweet. You should call it OISC to reduce confusion 01:21:35 "One Instruction Set Computer" 01:21:55 that is of course also taken 01:22:19 OISC is the common name for that style of computer, MISC is a specific "device" 01:22:24 Also, OISC is grammatically-dubious :P 01:22:39 true 01:22:48 Could be OIC 8-D 01:22:50 SISC? 01:22:58 well so is MISC if you squint the right way 01:22:59 That just means it has a single instruction set ... 01:23:06 SIC 01:23:13 I like OIC :P 01:23:20 ORLY? 01:23:22 "I'm using OIC" "OIC!" 01:27:02 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 01:29:15 PIKHQ LOVE C!!! 01:29:56 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bubble.c 01:36:55 * oerjan thought his editor was ignoring newlines for a moment 01:37:23 LMAO 01:37:33 'indent' does *not* make it any better. 01:37:41 Nor does a run through the preprocessor. 01:38:46 i had fun playing with my OISC 01:58:44 You can put blocks in ?: comparisons? >_O 02:01:02 gcc supports {( ... )} blocks 02:01:11 that evaluate to their last expression 02:01:56 or is it ({...}) 02:08:23 It's ({}) 02:08:30 Perfectly valid GNU C. 02:12:41 Now, who can figure out what that does? :p 02:13:56 Huh. I think I screwed that program up. XD 02:16:49 Or not. 02:20:16 No, I did. My second instance of a=!a; toggled a, when I just want it consistently set to 0. 02:37:23 perfectly valid gnu c is an oxymoron 02:38:41 Granted. 02:50:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:05:28 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 03:14:03 -!- bsmntbom2dood has joined. 03:18:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:24:39 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:26:34 -!- bsmntbom2dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:26:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:27:33 -!- calamari has joined. 04:29:15 -!- ^_` has joined. 04:29:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:29:31 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 05:03:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Connection timed out). 05:03:25 -!- ^_` has joined. 05:03:41 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 05:08:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has left (?). 05:37:39 -!- Sukoshi` has joined. 05:38:01 So, let's assume some random person nonchalantly came up to you and asked you to design a GTK GUI layout for an RPN Calculator. 05:38:05 What would your response be? 05:39:03 long time no see 05:39:10 indeed 05:39:15 Yup. 05:39:20 and then, "no" 05:39:20 i would say "no", and go back to using emacs calc 05:39:22 I'll be going back off to aether after today, but. 05:39:36 Aww. 05:39:41 But I need ideas waah. 05:40:07 Sukoshi`: why the hell would a calculator need a gui? 05:40:33 Because you don't want to stare at a terminal display when switching between your math homework and the screen? 05:40:43 apart from a bunch of buttons with symbols and function names on them... 05:41:03 Well, the display is what I'm really concerned about. 05:41:13 What would be the most effective way to display the stack. 05:41:29 one entry per line... 05:41:36 scrollbar? 05:41:37 A listbox or a textbox? 05:41:46 Stack number prefixed? 05:42:30 doesn't matter, doesn't matter, doesn't matter, just use emacs calc 05:42:35 calc even has a CAS 05:42:54 Yay fundamentalism \o/ 05:43:27 Now that I have Real Life Responsibilities(TM), I can't run Emacs all the time, by the way. 05:44:00 uh, why not? 05:44:03 you mean it takes longer to start up than the length of your breaks? 05:44:06 Yup. 05:44:10 Heh. 05:44:51 Well, more like, keeping Emacs always up is pointless, since I use the computer so much less. 05:45:09 On average, 1.5 hours a day, spent browsing Reddit and miscellaneous forums. 05:45:26 i see you are spending your time well 05:45:42 I am. 05:46:27 少し! 05:46:52 Sukoshi`: will you be participating in the #esoteric orgy? 05:46:55 ひさしぶり、pikhq. 05:47:07 bsmntbombdood: Only for some few hours for the rest of today. 05:47:17 うん、ひさしぶり、ね。…… 05:47:38 GTK GUI layout for an RPN calculator? 05:47:44 A) *Ewwww*, GTK. 05:47:56 b) *Ewwwww*, GUI. 05:48:23 B) Does STATEMENT: __________________________________ \n OUTPUT: ____________________ count? 05:49:11 Meh. 05:49:14 * oerjan suddenly envisions the stack displayed like a Star Wars style intro 05:49:22 Orpie has already been invented for the curses world, by the way. 05:49:26 that would be pretty cool! 05:50:11 * pikhq envisions a Norwegian mathematician talking about esoteric languages 05:51:13 * bsmntbombdood envisions oerjan 05:51:42 少しさん、名前はジョウサイアです。;) 05:52:19 SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA 05:52:19 えと。……ちがう。「ジョサイア」だ。 05:52:35 oerjan, if you would add some Norwegian to the fray? 05:52:45 ジョウサイ? 05:52:48 Josiah. 05:52:49 det kommer ikke p tale 05:52:54 ああ。 05:52:55 At least *trying* to transcribe it. 05:53:05 分かる。 05:53:18 さあ、何の話がいいか。 05:54:01 色々なことがあるから。。。。 05:54:29 "I understand. Well, what reading is good? Since there's so many things. . ." 05:54:36 Miguel de Icaza のMonoの新しい報告はどう? 05:55:05 ``Well, what should we talk about? There's so many things, so...'' 05:55:09 Oh. 05:56:42 Linuxのたくさんな人達がMonoはMSの付いた物から絶対ダメって言っているし。。。 05:57:06 大好きな大学は僕がおうすった。:) 05:57:42 おうするって何? 05:57:51 MITで入学したか。 05:57:52 Trying to say "accepted". 05:57:53 ??????????????? 05:58:21 ホントウ?!?!MITのチャンス?!?!?! 05:58:27 UMRでべんきょうしたい。 05:58:29 mit? 05:58:39 MITじゃない、よう。 05:58:52 UMR。。。えっと。。。その大学の名前を知らない。。。 05:58:52 SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA 05:59:51 やきもちがやってるかな。 06:00:10 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 06:00:27 私の一番狙いの大学はMIT。当り前だな。 06:00:59 でも。。。そのチャンスの確立は。。。ゼロだと思う。。。(苦笑 06:01:02 すごくいい、よ。UMRのACMは二番造った。 06:01:26 ACM 06:01:33 ACMってば。。。 06:01:43 The Association for Computing Machinery. 06:01:59 そんあことか。。。面白そう。 06:02:04 Bringing you such delights as the phrase "computer science". . . 06:02:24 でも、私は理学を勉強したいから、あれが無駄だ。 06:03:21 ちなみに、作るはもうふさわしいと思う。 06:04:38 話してはちょっとむずかしい。よくkitenを作るんだ。…… 06:04:38 今の見える狙いはUC Berkeleyだ。この町の辺りであるって、お金持ちのない人で優しくて、そんあわけだ。 06:04:59 kitenを作る? 06:05:46 さあ、今出ていくねぇぇぇぇ。。。さようなら、みんあ!!! 06:06:06 -!- Sukoshi` has left (?). 06:06:25 KDEの日本語のじしょ。 06:06:30 くそ。 06:06:49 Okay, I'll stop with the Japanese. 06:06:59 what were you guys talking about 06:07:06 College. 06:07:37 If you want an exact translation, it'll take me a while. . . 06:07:43 So many kanji that I don't know. . . 06:08:08 hrumph 06:08:19 should i listen to bach or falconer? 06:08:44 Yes. 06:09:16 you fail 06:09:50 what is the right way to say what i wanted to? 06:10:08 which one of ... 06:10:34 Realise that all of us code. 06:10:48 "Which: Bach xor Falconer?" 06:11:26 Bach, humbug! 06:14:29 i think i'm going to go with ethanol instead of music 06:19:08 well, since so many people have stolen from Bach, it is not impossible that you could do both in one... 06:27:26 mplayer 1/* 2/* 06:27:29 grrr 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:32:59 . 08:33:05 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:03:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:23:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:26:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:48:12 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:53:24 pikhq: how do you know Japanese? 11:04:14 pikhq: also, what is the line-ending type in that C code? 11:04:32 amazingly, PFE doesn't auto-detect 11:06:18 and you can't put braces in an expression 11:12:49 bsmntbombdood: I think you mean "Erdős", not "air dish" 11:32:15 -!- jix has joined. 11:40:00 (bsmntbombdood) should i listen to bach or falconer? <<< we have two or's in finnish just for that distinction! 12:12:22 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:34:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:58:56 good day everyone.. 14:15:23 * SimonRC has lunch 14:19:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:20:17 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:22:12 g'day 14:32:42 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:54:01 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:15:32 SimonRC: I've been learning Japanese at my high school. 15:15:43 It's standard UNIX style. 15:15:58 And thanks to GNU C, I *can* put braces in an expression. 15:16:32 * pikhq is almost glad he didn't try GNU's dynamically-sized arrays 15:18:04 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 15:32:51 -!- molchuvka has joined. 15:42:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:04:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:37:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:40:03 hi 17:47:04 urgh 17:47:12 gurgurgurguh? 17:47:40 job-hunting 17:47:49 I am getting flooded with requests 17:48:08 PING requests? or VERSION requests? ;) 17:54:55 :roll: 17:55:03 :D 17:55:19 question: how to do an eye-rolling smiley 17:55:27 hmm 17:55:32 there is no standard, i think 17:55:35 :rolleyes: is what most forums use 17:55:48 8-) is what msn uses, but that's not an eye roll by any stretch of the imagination 17:55:50 i don't know 17:57:19 ò_ó <-- ooh 17:57:36 ó_ò <-- ooh 17:57:38 heh 17:57:43 aha, i know 17:57:45 8_8 17:57:47 kind of. 17:58:01 no, that just looks unconcious 18:16:13 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:16:51 -!- calamari has joined. 19:17:00 -!- calamari has left (?). 19:22:23 * SimonRC has food 19:29:03 hooray 19:30:38 que typo? 19:46:12 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 19:57:13 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:59:18 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 20:16:26 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:24:17 -!- molchuvka has quit. 20:39:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:40:03 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 20:40:58 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:50:09 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:50:19 -!- jix has joined. 20:56:34 hello 20:58:00 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:01:32 hy 21:02:15 boo 21:03:01 lol http://zelmor.uw.hu/blog/best_h_doujin_ending_ever.jpg 21:05:08 the boys were having such fun 21:05:33 how rude 21:05:45 god pidgin is retarded 21:05:59 how on earth do I enable flashing of windows without making it do it for irc too?! 21:06:14 uh...use a real irc client 21:06:47 Et oui l'été s'éloignant petit à petit, le travail revient au galop donc je vous ai concocté de nombreuses surprises donc un nouveaux sites qui va vous permettre de faire de nombreuse rencontre sex!!! 21:07:03 bsmntbombdood: i can't be arsed; i am hardly ever on this machine 21:41:59 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:08:00 PINMG 22:17:54 PONMG 22:18:10 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:18:48 THME NEMW STANDARWD SPECIFIEWS ALWL WORDWS MUSWT HAVWE "W" IWN THWE SECONWD-LASWT POSITIOWN 22:28:54 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 22:34:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:40:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:09:05 cd ~/m/in/bp/ 23:09:14 oops 23:09:36 you have very concise dir names 23:09:52 tab completion 23:10:12 i always press tab after each dir name, it's a habit 23:10:18 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 23:10:21 ~/minbp 23:55:28 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 2007-10-08: 00:06:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:12:21 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:21:00 -!- NightKev has joined. 00:28:54 -!- NightKev has quit ("here"). 00:30:09 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:52:58 http://www.safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/misc/architecture-specification/ <- I think I'm going to build a simplified version of this in a logic simulator 01:53:45 mainly I think the whole address or constant thing is unnecessary and adds a fair amount of complexity. It's better to just store constants at memory locations 01:54:32 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:57:31 GregorR: you there? 01:58:09 is it assumed that a MISC machine uses two's complement for numbers? 01:59:22 it doesn't matter i don't think 02:18:12 hm 02:22:25 except maybe with printing 04:02:42 everybody here should go to ##crypto-forum and talk about anonymous digital currency 04:21:57 -!- ^_` has joined. 04:24:28 -!- ^_` has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:41:49 has safalra been here? 04:42:13 not since i joined 04:42:21 when did you join? 04:42:36 23:33 04:42:41 now 5:42 04:42:52 i see 04:43:11 now for a completely different subject 04:43:18 what was the first time you joined 04:43:36 and out of curiosity, has safalra been here *at all* during that time? 04:43:54 i should read all the logs 04:44:16 you can google at site:tunes.org 04:45:02 er, the first hit is is Safalra ever on irc? 04:45:12 doesn't look good 04:45:16 hehe :P 04:45:35 indeed you can, i never remember google has that tag 04:46:06 you can also do it from the advanced search menu 04:47:48 who's safalra? 04:48:52 http://www.safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/ 04:48:58 the creator of sansism 04:50:11 hmm, misc is also safalra's? 04:50:28 well, time to do some coffee -> 04:50:31 not seen on the wiki since 21 Oct 2006 04:50:33 (yes, do.) 04:51:08 but the website has been updated since 04:54:10 stalking further, he edited wikipedia yesterday... 04:57:42 he urinates an average of 6 times per day, and spend 3 hours per day browsing digg 04:58:02 that on his website? 05:02:33 what? how dare he exist and not be on this channel simultaneously :| 05:03:22 i mean, he must've existed yesterday then :| 05:08:50 eep, webcomic time! 05:21:33 I vote today's xkcd "kick ass". In favor? 05:22:00 in effect, yes 05:22:24 how many hobbies does he have, anyhow? :D 05:23:19 Xkcd (the guy) needs many of them. 05:23:36 As if running a webcomic and an IRC network weren't enough. :p 05:23:57 i guess it takes his mind off the velociraptors. 05:24:17 No, it fuels his paranoia. 05:32:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:33:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has left (?). 05:59:51 pikhq: it made me wiktionary effect and affect 06:00:37 and i still don't get it :( 06:00:44 i'm a failure 06:01:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee"). 06:07:57 bsmntbombdood, try oed or m-w.com 06:09:05 oed is subscription only 06:38:07 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 06:49:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:51:59 bsmntbom1dood: When you affect something, it causes an effect. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:27:51 -!- ttm has joined. 09:47:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:45:51 -!- ehird` has joined. 10:52:29 -!- ais523 has quit ("will be back in about 90 mins, hopefully"). 11:03:43 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 11:14:50 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:52:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:00:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:01:58 * ais523 apologises for taking longer than their quit message 2 hours ago suggested 14:09:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:45:02 -!- jix has joined. 15:02:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:33:03 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 15:49:13 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 16:00:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:17:41 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:20:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 18:28:38 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:59:35 "their"? 18:59:50 yes 18:59:52 it was in /me 18:59:57 "ais523 apologises for taking longer than their quit message 2 hours ago suggested" 19:00:07 also, you're 6 hours late. 19:03:28 i don't think it's grammatically appropriate to use "their" with a specific personal name (ais523) 19:03:41 although ais523 could refer to a group of people, i suppose. 19:04:00 that's the singular-they issue 19:04:16 personally I am in favour of singular they/their - I don't like gender-specific pronouns. 19:04:29 and "hir" and all of those are just ridiculous 19:04:44 yes, i don't think singular "they" is appropriate with a specific person name 19:04:58 "I was talking to my mother, and they told me..." 19:05:09 "Blah-blah walked to the store. They bought a dollar for two dollars." 19:05:24 lololo 19:05:29 "Blah-blah was walking to the store, when they bought a dollar for two dollars" 19:05:30 hmm 19:05:32 you might be right 19:05:33 exchanging a laptop for a prostate massage 19:12:06 good for you 19:16:37 I think the medical community should encourage self-treppanation. With a little luck, all the morons will kill themselves with electric drills! http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/ 19:19:02 darn, bmezine is blocked here 19:19:51 basically a guy who rants about the benefits of treppanation- " I read about the supposed de-conditioning properties. I read about more parts of the brain working simultaneously as there would be more blood up there to help this happen. The arguments for it all seemed to be quite lengthy, quite detailed, thought out and researched, and very intelligent." 19:20:04 and then does it in his own home 19:20:20 and then writes diary entries about the "new sensations" he feels 19:20:45 RodgerTheGreat: what the fuck. 19:20:46 and then months later reflects and realizes it was probably due to the placebo effect 19:21:54 overall, pretty funny stuff 19:22:04 RodgerTheGreat: are people really this retarded? 19:22:13 wouldn't you have to fuck with the brain and not just the skull to do that 19:22:24 * bsmntbombdood is reading it 19:22:29 I like how it never occurs to him that he could have easily pithed himself or contracted a fatal meningitis infection. 19:22:47 ehird`: it appears so 19:22:48 i have a headache right now, maybe if my brain could breathe the outside air it would go away 19:22:53 brb, going to smash open my skull 19:22:54 lol 19:23:25 I also love the "most ancient form of surgery -> most effective kind of surgery!" logic 19:23:45 surely if they did it in ancient times, it must be a good idea and safe medical practice! 19:24:00 that's why acupuncture is still listened two 19:24:05 "THEY WERE IN TUNE WITH THE FORCES" 19:24:08 jeez, stop using words i have to look up 19:24:16 even though they didn't know blood flowed around the body 19:24:23 bsmntbombdood: you don't know what acupuncture is? 19:24:42 bsmntbombdood: brought to you by the same kooks that brought you homeopathy: well, no, it was the Chinese. But still. 19:25:12 ehird`: no, trepan and pith 19:25:22 ah 19:25:57 acupuncture has some demonstrable effects. It kinda works, but we have no idea why. Homeopathy is pointless and retarded, and does nothing in controlled experiments 19:26:32 acupuncture does not work 19:27:35 nice to see a well-reasoned argument between two experts in the field 19:27:46 oh wait.. you're both talking out of your ass 19:27:47 well, it sure as hell doesn't "realign your chi" 19:28:10 lament: wait, we're both talking out of our asses... acupuncture is quantum? it simultaneously works and doesn't work? 19:28:33 I think he just did the equivalent of a [citation needed] on both of us 19:28:38 which is a good damn point 19:28:55 /nick ehird`[citation needed] 19:29:01 ehird`: i don't know if it works or not. I never researched the subject. 19:29:30 lament: they stick incredibly thin needles into your body. 19:30:02 that by itself is just crazy and leads me to believe it wouldn't work; but i have done some minor research and my belief has been reaffirmed 19:31:04 RodgerTheGreat: this treppanation article is making me feel sick :/ 19:31:06 alright, let me clarify my arguments here- acupuncture is a rather expansive topic 19:31:53 ehird`: what about traditional medicine? They make you swallow little round things. 19:32:22 and that's somehow supposed to make you get better? 19:32:25 lament: except that's a really vague definition, whereas the above is a pretty accurate description of acupuncture 19:33:04 specifically, clinical trials have shown that acupuncture has some success at pain relief, and works at least better than no treatment or a placebo. 19:33:08 http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab001351.html 19:33:58 ehird`: a pretty accurate description of medical drugs is "they feed you tiny amounts of chemicals". 19:34:09 jeebus 19:34:17 as opposed to "they stick incredibly thin needles into your body" 19:34:24 i can't decide which one sounds more looney 19:34:48 lament: so, what do you do when you get ill, exactly? 19:35:41 spend too much time on IRC 19:35:55 that actually sounds pretty reasonable 19:36:03 let's set up a foundation 19:38:52 bbl folks 19:38:56 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 20:25:52 attitude cures sicknesses, not medicine 20:26:19 oklopol: i hope you realise we are joking :-) 20:26:37 of course, like anyone would believe drugs help people 20:26:49 heh 20:27:16 this is part of my newly-found "i do not believe in X" philosophy 20:27:23 X 20:27:26 is a var there 20:27:27 of course 20:27:42 oklopol: apply that to ~(P&~P) 20:27:51 mwahaha! I have broken your logic! 20:27:56 unless you don't believe in logic. 20:28:06 in which case, i claim that "I do not believe in X" philosophy is false! 20:28:13 And you cannot argue, since P&~P can be true! 20:28:25 i do believe in logic, i just don't believe i applied that right. 20:28:34 when asserting that proposition 20:28:36 err 20:28:38 interpreting 20:28:40 whatever 20:28:46 something, anyway. 20:30:09 that is by its very nature a very paradoxical philosophy, i have to live with that 20:30:30 hmm... i feel like a family guy 20:36:47 you look like stewie though 20:39:20 i have no idea what the kid says half the time 20:39:25 wish i knew english... 20:40:38 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 20:41:11 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 20:49:59 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:50:08 -!- jix__ has joined. 20:57:28 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:57:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:58:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:04:34 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 21:13:14 -!- jix__ has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:41:03 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:42:17 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:23:04 -!- FreePBX1371 has joined. 22:23:08 -!- FreePBX1371 has left (?). 23:25:21 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:52:32 -!- sekhmet has joined. 2007-10-09: 00:12:04 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:40:44 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:43:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:48:58 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 03:29:27 -!- Nucleo has joined. 03:43:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:20:20 -!- immibis has joined. 04:52:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:12:43 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 05:17:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:43:01 -!- ^_` has joined. 05:43:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:43:17 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 05:49:27 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:52:03 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Beware of pr"). 07:21:55 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:52:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:56:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Client Quit). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:12:52 -!- ttm has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:43:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:52:21 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 09:03:34 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:55:01 -!- molchuvka has joined. 12:13:25 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:19:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:31:12 ooh, some new people 12:31:34 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 13:15:03 -!- molchuvka has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:16:47 yeah, new people are pretty hot 13:36:01 -!- jix has joined. 13:44:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:44:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:45:13 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:41:15 oklopol: I can just see it now... 14:41:48 "Hey there- wow, that nick is pretty sexy there- I like the way you type words. Your diction is incredible" 15:05:30 you know it 15:26:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:42:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:52:28 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:05:39 class baz { public baz baz; public baz baz(baz baz) { return baz; } } 16:05:40 fudge: I forget that methods are non-first-class in java 16:05:42 oops 16:05:45 "baz baz = new baz(); baz.baz = baz; baz.baz(baz);" 16:34:19 back 16:34:46 SimonRC: you are crazy 16:38:23 I was just testing 16:38:57 :) 16:39:41 "public static void blessed greased +2 main(String[] args)" 16:42:31 i wonder what the craziest java code ever is 16:42:32 i want to see it 16:43:13 I saw a Haskell-to-Java translation once. 16:43:20 What. 16:43:31 every line had, like, 80 characters in it 16:46:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:02:59 -!- RedDak has joined. 17:15:43 http://userstyles.org/styles/588 I didn't think you could make reddit any more minimal... 17:19:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:29:19 -!- dak has joined. 17:49:42 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:55:20 -!- RedDak has joined. 18:07:11 -!- dak__ has joined. 18:16:57 -!- dak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:19:58 -!- tincho_ has joined. 18:22:26 -!- tincho_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:28:25 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:36:56 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 19:28:12 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:38:22 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:49:52 -!- dak__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:03:07 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:03:17 -!- jix has joined. 21:06:29 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:27:39 -!- dak__ has joined. 21:34:37 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:39:56 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 21:45:46 -!- dak has joined. 21:48:54 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:54:23 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:06:47 -!- dak__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:07:21 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:11:02 -!- dak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:23:10 -!- ehird` has quit (Excess Flood). 22:23:56 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:27:38 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:32:53 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:39:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:42:55 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:57:47 * SimonRC goes to bed 22:58:09 * ehird` bed to goes 22:58:12 :p 23:06:55 omg ur funnay! 23:07:34 YESOI OIAM FUNNAYESTthing everUIFTOYUDONTACCEPTMYFUNNAYDIE 23:52:22 -!- goffrie has joined. 2007-10-10: 00:25:59 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:28:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:28:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:54:52 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 01:05:49 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:09:29 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:34:15 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 03:25:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit). 03:52:00 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:55:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:05:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 04:29:04 -!- immibis has joined. 04:29:51 ?????does anyone else see F at the front of this text or the end? ?dne eht ro txet siht fo tnorf eht ta F ees esle enoyna seod FFF 04:32:05 yes. 04:32:14 front or back? 04:32:26 three F's i mean (FFF) 04:32:32 end 04:32:39 i see five question marks, the sentences, and FFF at the end. 04:32:40 question marks at the front 04:32:44 yes 04:32:58 irssi is a text client? probably thats why not. 04:33:39 i pasted the unicode-control-characters-for-right-to-left-that-were-in-front-of-the-cyrillic-combining-millions-sign-that-someone-put-control-characters-in-front-of-to-reverse-text. 04:34:24 cyrillic combining millions sign? 04:34:26 I do believe that it's my terminal that's fucking that up, not irssi. 04:34:37 In theory, my terminal does Unicode. 04:34:41 commas in a circle. 04:34:45 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined. 04:34:46 In practice, it doesn't do that. ;) 04:35:05 or maybe icechat didn't like it, and actually sent question marks to the channel instead of the control codes. 04:35:08 !raw nick toboge 04:35:09 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toboge. 04:36:22 !binascii 11100010 01000000 10101110 00100010 00100011 00100100 04:36:23 @"#$ 04:36:26 Huh? 04:36:28 ? 04:36:56 that *was* the binary utf-8 encoding, right? 04:38:39 hexadecimal utf-8 encoding is E2 80 AE D2 89 04:39:48 !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001 04:39:49 ‮҉ 04:39:50 Huh? 04:40:31 hmm...icechat doesn't appear to do utf-8. 04:43:28 does anyone else see a circle of commas? 04:52:19 ?testing 04:52:29 !binascii 11010010 10001001 04:52:30 ҉ 04:52:32 Huh? 04:52:43 * immibis evidently needs to use another client 04:55:24 toboge, :þ 04:55:38 i can't see that unicode character. what is it? 04:55:54 immibis, it's a circle of dots 04:56:00 ok. 04:57:24 !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001 04:57:24 ‮҉ 04:57:26 Huh? 04:57:52 !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001 00100001 00100010 00100011 00100100 00100101 00100110 00100111 00101000 00101001 04:57:52 ‮҉!"#$%&'() 04:57:54 Huh? 04:58:30 !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001 00110001 00110010 00110011 00110100 00110101 00110110 00110111 00111000 00111001 04:58:31 ‮҉123456789 04:58:34 Huh? 05:24:29 ‮҉ coolest char ever 05:24:34 whoops :P 05:24:57 it's 2. right-to-left override and combining-cyrillic-millions-sign 05:24:57 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. A fine is a"). 05:25:02 -!- toboge has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:08:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:38:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:07:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:09:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:24:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:31:26 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:48:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:41:01 -!- jix has joined. 12:45:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:19:42 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 13:24:58 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:25:54 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:14:50 'morning, everyone 14:15:02 hello 14:15:12 'sup, ehird` ? 14:15:40 [insert something witty, like "[insert something witty here]" here] 14:33:48 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 14:39:40 -!- ehird1 has joined. 14:39:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Nick collision from services.). 14:39:55 -!- ehird1 has changed nick to ehird`. 14:41:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:41:43 wow 14:42:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:42:02 he actually has put up a gallery on wetriffs 14:44:23 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/terrible_code.png 14:44:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:44:51 its a terrible way to do a nob 14:44:55 but i can understand it 14:45:05 nob? 14:45:28 the terrible part was the if(TRUE)s.. which were MY fault 14:45:29 nop 14:45:38 if (TRUE) will be a nop if your compiler doesn't optimize 14:45:44 Because I was too lazy to unindent 14:45:45 its multithreaded, gl code, so nops are useful 14:46:06 And didn't realize that Shift-Tab, in fact, worked, if lines were selected 14:46:10 Nothing to do with nops 14:54:39 http://stupidfilter.org/wiki/ best software project of 2007 14:54:48 i mean, it filters stupid things! rock. 14:55:00 http://stupidfilter.org/random.php random stupidity from their database. 15:15:32 * oklopol has made the most verbose truth table generator ever: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p443156611.txt 15:15:42 oh 15:15:46 sorry, that's not it :) 15:15:59 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p356232664.txt 15:16:12 heh 15:16:18 for (-q&p)|(q&-r) that is :P 15:16:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:16:30 - = not? 15:16:48 with more variables the "verbose" mode is quite a flood... 15:16:49 P and Q should be uppercase! :P 15:16:50 yeah 15:17:03 that should be (~Q&P)|(Q&~R) 15:17:08 i guess that might be nicer 15:17:18 i'll make ~ an optional negation 15:17:29 maybe even <> instead of (), but that's only because I've been reading Godel, Escher, Bach, which uses it 15:17:37 <~Q&P>| 15:17:39 err wait 15:17:40 i would've done ^ and v, but v is a letter... 15:17:40 that's 15:17:43 <<~Q&P>|> 15:17:56 i love < and > as parens 15:18:19 <<<>> <<>>> 15:18:22 in GEB's Propositional Logic notation, and thus TNT, & and | must be encoded in brackets 15:18:25 X&Y -> NO 15:18:30 -> YES 15:18:37 this makes parsing it trivial, of cours 15:18:44 err why? 15:18:46 oh 15:18:51 because no infix ambiguousness 15:18:52 you mean X&Y&Z is illegal? 15:18:55 yeah 15:18:59 that's <&Z> 15:19:03 well then it does, true 15:19:14 its notable because it can be implemented as typographical substitution rules 15:19:20 but i kinda already made the parser, so... i don't feel like wasting it! :D 15:19:34 hmm, i see 15:20:06 dunno what to use for => though 15:20:08 since > is a bracket 15:20:14 well, i just made that for school, we have to make a lot of tables, and i'm not going to do that manually, no matter how much the teacher cries. 15:20:17 in the book its a glyph 15:20:29 you can just do greedy tokenizing 15:20:36 but it can be pretty confusing 15:20:48 well, luckily = is no operator 15:20:56 <=>> 15:21:04 err... that's illegal anyway :) 15:21:20 = doesn't mean imply 15:21:22 = means equals 15:21:46 oh well, hooray for unicode: 15:22:50 <<~Q&P>⇒~> 15:23:04 "not Q and P implies P does not imply Q" 15:23:07 i have no idea what your point was 15:23:14 @ that equals thing 15:23:19 meh 15:23:21 ah 15:23:24 equivalence? 15:23:27 i'm using <=> 15:23:40 <=> is not in propositional logic... 15:23:50 afaik 15:23:51 ... 15:24:01 it's just an arbitrary binary operator 15:24:08 alright 15:24:15 oh, i forgot, GEB doesn't use & and | 15:24:18 you can use any operator that has to do with bits 15:24:29 i mean, any F bool bool -> bool 15:24:40 random notation there... 15:24:44 but anyways 15:24:49 <<~Q∧P>⇒~> 15:25:01 (∧ = and, ∨ = or in TNT) 15:25:09 hmm... python prolly knows unicode 15:25:10 ? 15:25:24 i could have those there optionally too 15:25:29 interestingly, iirc it does not use ¬ for negation, but ~ 15:25:30 also 15:25:35 note that ^ is not ∧ 15:25:40 and v is not ∨ 15:25:42 i see a lot of boxes. 15:25:49 pff 15:25:51 get a unicode client 15:25:55 :D 15:26:00 hmm 15:26:04 rewrite the sentence replacing boxes with [] 15:26:06 and send it over 15:26:11 so i can point you to what symbls those are 15:26:30 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:26:46 all except the negation symbol 15:26:50 ¬ i see 15:27:04 <<~Q∧P>⇒~> i don't see these though 15:27:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_symbols logical conjunction for the ^ one 15:27:10 logical disjunction for the v one 15:27:18 i was saying that they are not the same, although they look alike 15:27:21 they are unicode symbols 15:27:39 Alternatively: set your client to utf-8 15:27:43 yay more boxes! 15:27:46 wtf 15:27:50 this time in the browser1 15:27:52 get a browser that doesn't suck 15:27:55 :DD 15:28:02 what are you using, lynx?! 15:28:05 i'll try, wait 15:28:07 heck i think lynx supports unicode 15:28:17 ie is the default 15:28:23 why are you using ie 15:29:06 it's the default 15:29:18 that's a good reason? 15:30:08 i don't eften have to see unicode characters -> easier to let it be the default. 15:30:12 *often 15:30:19 IE sucks in more ways than unicode 15:30:30 i see. 15:30:55 seriously, IE is not a reasonable choice in this age 15:31:27 err... okay 15:31:36 i don't see why, but i believe you 15:32:17 i won't use firefox before i see one reason myself, though, unless you make it my default browser 15:32:26 or someone else, i'm not gonna. 15:32:50 i use safari on my mac 15:32:52 opera on my pc 15:33:01 mozilla does not use my default font for the url bar, why? 15:33:11 yes it does? 15:33:34 i see, well, perhaps i've chosen a bad font by accident, and ie just happens to know what i like :) 15:33:42 i have not touched any options. 15:34:25 anyways, i do not care at all which browser i'm using, as far as i'm conserned, they all suck ass. 15:34:31 *concerned 15:34:48 you think everything sucks ass, though 15:34:53 especially if anything is - god forbid - open source 15:35:08 i see 15:35:15 i agree with the first one 15:35:27 "everything sucks" is a good starting point 15:35:36 no, not really 15:35:53 it is, and really, let's not discuss this, i do not care for this stuff 15:36:14 you started the conversation... i think 15:36:18 nope 15:36:19 you did 15:36:22 well 15:36:40 of course i should've known i can't mention i have IE without starting one ;) 15:37:26 (17:29:04) (oklopol) it's the default 15:37:26 (17:29:16) (ehird`) that's a good reason? 15:37:28 about this 15:37:42 it's not a good reason, but there doesn't need to be one, the browsers are the same. 15:37:48 there's no crucial difference 15:37:56 i guess i'm starting now, though :P 15:37:58 sorry about that 15:38:28 there IS a crucial difference 15:38:30 the rendering engine 15:38:32 i'll get back to coding, there's still some stuff i need to add to that thingie... 15:38:35 hmm 15:38:43 whuz that? 15:38:51 ah 15:39:20 you mean the thingie that chooses the location of different objects on a page? 15:39:23 if you don't know what a rendering engine is then don't say "well they're basically the same" because you don't know anything about browsers 15:39:36 it's the thing that turns the parse tree into the page. 15:39:41 it is EVERYTHING to a browser 15:39:46 well i know what it is then. 15:39:55 IE's is broken, breaks the spec in about 10,000 ways, and has lovely little microsoftisms 15:40:06 gecko (mozilla's) isn't perfect, but it's far better than that 15:40:20 well it may be bad, i've never seen it fail though 15:40:24 webkit (apple's open source engine, descended from KHTML (konqueror's)) is probably the best around 15:40:34 and you have't seen it fail because web developers have to prance around until IE accepts it 15:40:39 its a mess 15:41:05 trues, i've made a few pages myself (very few) 15:41:10 hell getting ie to work 15:41:39 okay, you win, i do agree that's a good reason to use a better browser, in theory. 15:41:54 also, i think piracy is wrong 15:42:00 much more than that browser thing 15:42:05 but i do it anyway 15:42:17 i'll start using firefox right after i stop piracy 15:42:25 good deal? 15:42:49 i don't do much with either 15:42:50 though 15:43:58 s/i stop piracy/i stop doing piracy 15:44:51 has anyone set Tkinter up for Python CE? 15:44:58 or some other graphics library 15:45:01 hmm, #python! 15:53:43 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:54:06 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:04:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:11:07 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 16:11:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:20:15 -!- jix has joined. 16:43:01 programming with postscript is fun. 16:43:04 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192030960.html 16:43:16 not nearly as fun as SYNTAXLESS! 16:43:41 I beg to differ. PostScript is pretty fuckin' sweet 16:43:59 syntaxless has no syntax! 16:44:12 it's like forth, but it has lambdas 16:44:12 postscript has awesome syntax! 16:44:15 and it's cooler 16:44:23 it's like forth but... yeah. like forth. 16:44:40 forth doesn't have lambdas 16:44:47 :UNNAMED does not count 16:45:05 :UNNAMED is some sick smiley 16:45:28 well i guess that could be a beard 16:45:31 it's :U with a very long neck made of an accordian 16:45:42 ah, that's more likely, true 16:45:55 jack-in-a-box man! 16:46:10 i have to reboot, nothing works :<< 16:46:15 evidently irc does 16:46:30 well yeah, it always works 16:46:48 lol- I just realized a downside to coding in postscript- it's a little bit of a trick to print out your sourcecode 16:47:16 RodgerTheGreat: SEE ME 16:47:18 oh wait, that's forth :P 16:47:36 : QUINE SEE ME ; has to be the funniest bit of code ever 16:47:56 forth has really nifty ideas, but I find the syntax rather ugly. Postscript has very pretty syntax 16:48:05 syntaxless is tons of fun 16:48:11 [ ... ] is a lambda, but that's not syntax :P 16:48:27 [ is just an operator which does some internal tricks 16:48:29 ] resets them 16:48:41 you can bind lambdas to names to make them operators 16:48:54 [ 2 + ] ' addtwo bind 16:49:00 then you can do 2 addtwo and get 4 on the stack 16:49:07 you can get the lambda bound to an operator with \ 16:49:10 if there can be a program, there must be a syntax 16:49:14 \ addtwo gets you what [ 2 + ] would 16:49:27 ! calls the lambda on the stack 16:49:28 nesting is not required for "having a syntax" 16:49:30 Huh? 16:49:40 2 \ addtwo ! is the same as 2 addtwo 16:50:00 oklopol: well, it kind of has a syntax 16:50:09 oklopol: it has a LEXICAL syntax, but not any more layers of syntax 16:50:20 for a while i thought you were pasting that, but i guess it was just your fast fingers :) 16:50:28 the lexical syntax simply says that words are seperated by whitespace 16:50:29 now that i look at the irregular time tags 16:50:30 and that's it 16:50:42 heh, my fast fingers 16:50:42 :P 16:51:07 bbl folks 16:51:12 bhye 16:51:16 bye 16:51:16 :) 16:51:22 (%&%#$ ungodly boring statistics class) 16:51:37 oklopol: i'll write a short program in syntaxless 16:52:36 i'll read it if it's less than a page 16:53:17 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192031591.html 16:53:20 that outputs: 16:53:23 I say: Hello, world! 16:53:29 reboot now, i'll read teh logz 16:53:33 soon back 16:53:37 -!- oklopol has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"). 17:06:39 he's taking awhile 17:07:42 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:10:05 wb 17:10:07 oklopol: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192031661.html 17:10:10 another program 17:10:16 should give you a general feel of syntaxless 17:10:26 err 17:10:29 wait 17:10:31 that's wrong 17:10:31 let me fix it 17:10:45 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192032638.html fixed version 17:10:51 should give you a general feel of syntaxless. 17:11:37 is . catenation? 17:11:49 no 17:11:51 output 17:11:54 like forths output 17:11:58 basically: 17:12:08 . pops a string off the stack and dumps it to stdout 17:12:31 of course it'll be defined something like: [ STDOUT file. ] ' . bind 17:12:37 ', of course, quotes a name 17:12:58 ah of course 17:13:15 the . . might be confusing 17:13:16 it's: 17:13:19 " Hello, " . . 17:13:23 " Hello, " . . " !" <<< this is just how you might do the catenation with your other language 17:13:29 if . was catenation. 17:13:29 if the stack is " world" greet: 17:13:38 " world" " Hello, " 17:13:38 i know stack-based programming :) 17:13:41 :P 17:13:42 alright 17:13:48 it's just confused some stack-based programmers 17:13:50 -!- [1]shava has joined. 17:13:54 possibly not very good ones, hehe 17:14:06 -!- [1]shava has left (?). 17:14:44 my first language was stack-based, after that i've considered it too trivial; now that i've realized parsing is actually pretty easy, i might start making stack-based languages again 17:15:02 syntaxless does not really involve any parsing 17:15:10 well yeah, i know 17:15:15 it has one measly, tiny rule of lexical analysis that is so minimal you could barely call it a rule 17:15:18 :-) 17:15:27 that was a completely off-topic sentence :) 17:15:34 split(" ") 17:15:45 well, no, that doesn't listen to tabs and newlines 17:16:03 don't you just love it when you make a logger bot, and it logs for 9 days and then suddenly doesn't :D 17:16:12 ah trues 17:17:50 okay, what's \? 17:17:52 "\" 17:18:06 now that i actually read it through :P 17:18:20 \ is an operator that reads a word forward and returns the lambda that is bound to the operator named by the word 17:18:32 so, if you have [ X ] ' Y bind, \ Y returns [ X ] 17:18:45 basically it's how you pass around functions as arguments. 17:18:48 err, operators 17:19:02 because, of course, greet-world say would call greet-world then call say 17:19:14 \ greet-world say puts greet-world's lambda on the stack and calls say 17:19:52 i see 17:19:57 what calls greet-world? 17:21:31 say 17:21:40 ! calls a lambda on the stack 17:21:42 Huh? 17:21:46 here, i'll step-by-step it in a paste 17:23:25 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192033400.html 17:23:39 x {...} is "x ran, and produced this subtree" 17:23:49 x : y is "x ran, and made the stack y" 17:30:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:31:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:31:27 oklopol: you get it now? :) 17:39:12 okpop 17:39:18 heh 17:40:09 -!- tokigun has joined. 17:41:25 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 17:43:45 so it's automatically run at the end of the program? 17:43:52 of course... 17:43:54 it's just code. 17:44:28 well, if you push a lambda, it's not obvious to me it will be executed automatically at the end of the program 17:45:03 it doesn't 17:45:08 \ greet-world say 17:45:14 \ greet-world (Pushes lambda) 17:45:15 say (Calls say) 17:46:30 ah sorry, i thought the exclamation mark in the other lambda is a string too 17:46:40 [ " Hello, " . . " !" . ] ' greet bind 17:46:40 [ " I say: " . ! . ] ' say bind 17:46:45 reading is hard. 17:46:56 ! is an operator 17:47:00 Huh? 17:47:04 it calls the lambda on the top of the stack 17:47:12 > let x ? y = x+y; infixr 5 ? in 2 ? 3 17:47:25 oerjan: /q lambdabot 17:47:44 oerjan: pay me 5000e and i'll kill him for you 17:48:12 (not ehird`) 17:48:22 I was about to say 17:48:22 :P 17:48:36 * oerjan assumes oklopol is referring to Mr. Wong 17:48:43 yes, precisely 17:49:51 that chinese bastard has gone too far 17:50:31 * ehird` is confused 17:51:10 Mr. Wong Chan-Nel 17:57:16 "...Unix. 17:57:16 Or should that be, *n?x. Nope, doesn't include AIX -- lessee, *x. 17:57:16 Yep, *[Xx], the standard operating system." 17:57:34 Windox 18:23:53 ...? 18:24:12 *[Xx] doesn't include Solaris by the way :P 18:24:48 Nor BSD if you don't say "BSD UNIX" 18:29:46 Also, if I am to assume from "[Xx]" that this was supposed to be regex, that's a bad regex (can't start with a *) 18:30:15 Clearly you want something like /(.*[Xx]|BSD|Solaris)/ 18:32:20 its a shell glob 18:32:20 duh 18:32:22 *[Xx] 18:33:05 ls /OSes/*[Xx] 18:33:24 exactly 18:42:29 * ehird` thinks what other esoteric ground he should cover... 18:42:34 I have a kind-of-forth-alike, an APL-alike... 18:53:06 :) 19:01:11 i wonder if anyone ever made a brainfuck-derivative! 19:01:14 what a wacky thought. 19:01:22 bah, how boring 19:02:17 hmm... wonder if i should extend my logic library to solve simple constraint problems with a nicer syntax.... 19:02:37 do it! 19:02:45 blah 19:02:51 an AI might eventually grow out of it, or so Sam Hughes says ;) 19:03:52 FYB :P 19:04:43 fuck yor brane too! 19:05:10 random poll: how many bf-derivatives have you concocted? 19:05:14 * oklopol has done 5 19:05:31 0 19:05:32 well 19:05:33 1 19:05:34 jumpfuck 19:09:57 I think only the one. 19:10:03 Or at least, I recall only the one. 19:12:09 i made a "50 brainfuck derivatives" article once, had to invent 3 new 19:12:18 :P 19:12:21 wow 19:12:21 :P 19:12:32 the descriptions were very small. 19:12:48 it was fucking hard trying to understand all of them in one night :D 19:13:11 therefore i'm pretty sure most are wrong, luckily no one will most likely ever read the article 19:18:01 link? 19:18:13 :| 19:18:17 hmm, kay 19:18:35 it's so fulla typos i'm not even gonna start fixing them :D 19:19:41 http://www.vjn.fi/42.htm http://www.vjn.fi/44.htm http://www.vjn.fi/46.htm 19:19:56 if you can decipher any of that, i'm surprised. 19:20:14 it's in three parts, because i was lazy :P 19:21:38 i understand my own descriptions up to the level i could code in many of those, but oh my god that's a lot of typoes and bad grammar :D 19:26:59 hey, idea 19:27:24 making a self-consistent logic and arithmetic system, but that is crazy to intuition and is completely unlike standard logic/maths :) 19:28:26 what do you mean self-consistent? 19:28:39 well 19:28:45 i don't mean actually consistent 19:28:49 Godel has something to say about that 19:28:57 but, you know. not tons of contradictory axioms 19:29:17 contradictory axioms? 19:29:24 can you show me an example? 19:29:28 you know 19:29:33 like having P and ~P as axioms 19:30:00 err i know what it means 19:30:02 i mean 19:30:02 it could be consistent relative to some set theory more powerful than it 19:30:13 oerjan: sure, but you know what i mean 19:35:12 :-) 19:37:57 http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/index.php 19:37:58 -!- Cesque has joined. 19:41:16 Interesting. 19:41:28 They worked quite well for me. 19:41:38 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:47:35 yay job yay job yay job 19:48:24 jay yob 19:48:33 Soon enough you'll be saying "This job sucks this job sucks (but at least it gets me paid)" 19:49:07 Well, the company seems rather nice 19:49:25 that's what they said about microsfot 19:49:59 has anyone read Salo? 19:50:02 * GregorR high-fives ehird` for his favorite tpyo. 19:50:05 heh 19:50:08 (Pseudo-tpyo) 19:50:19 I lvoe tpyos, tehy aer fnu 19:50:39 they are in 0xF0RD and are full of smart uni grads and make software that is cool AFAICT 19:50:53 they have 23 people and a table-football table 19:51:10 oklopol: define "salo" 19:51:20 They're such a good company, they can make 'R' a hexadecimal digit? 19:51:37 The 120 Days of Sodomy 19:51:56 the movie was great, was wondering if the book is as good :P 19:52:08 >_O 19:52:13 GregorR: well, Oxford (England) looks almost like a hex number 19:52:38 oklopol: WTF I say, WTF. 19:52:51 * oklopol needs to find a separate esoteric sex channel xD 19:53:15 but check it out, great movie 19:54:13 hehe, for a minute i thought someone had said something on #lolcode 19:54:25 why are you in #lolcode, that is the question 19:54:26 but i just pressed #lojban by accident 19:54:39 i'm usually on channels that have been mentioned in my presence 19:55:05 hmm 19:55:05 if i don't reboot for a while, i might make the channel a "favorite", and always autojoin is 19:55:06 *it 19:55:12 who wants to try that crazy maths/logic system thing? 19:55:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:55:25 -!- jix has joined. 19:57:40 -!- Cesque has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:01:02 I just got the "Java Developer" job from here: http://www.decisionsoft.com/jobs.html 20:01:05 24k GBP 20:01:25 they're drunk on xml :o 20:04:44 -!- Cesque has joined. 20:08:52 hi Cesque 20:09:02 hi 20:09:11 you new or passing? 20:09:23 or old and formerly invisible? 20:09:30 new 20:09:46 i probably won't say much 20:09:49 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 20:09:51 NONSENSE 20:09:53 YOU MUST SPEAK FOREVER 20:09:56 lol 20:10:01 a lot of new people here right now, weird :| 20:10:15 Cesque, goffrie, Nucleo i guess 20:10:32 so... not that much. 20:10:35 lol 20:10:47 aren't I new? 20:10:48 >:P 20:10:55 you're old as hell 20:11:02 no... 20:11:11 i arrived here earlier this year 20:11:13 not that earlier either 20:11:15 a few months 20:11:34 you're about as old as me, and that's what i'm comparing with 20:11:35 :P 20:11:41 yeah, but that's still enough to become known 20:11:42 so... as old as possible. 20:11:58 am I lim(x->inf) of age? :P 20:12:32 hmm... in case they invent eternal life, aren't we all 20:12:57 "On average, the 30 models guessed 51.8519% of your choices correctly with a standard deviation of 4.6731." 20:13:00 :-S 20:13:11 I am les predictable that most 20:13:19 you picked using random numbers 20:13:19 :P 20:13:38 oklopol, don't mind me... 20:14:01 i won't, zuzu_ has been here for ages, and i'm pretty sure it's a bot ;) 20:14:28 no, i tried to choose the one that looks "nicer" 20:14:37 is that a public test? 20:14:40 *pubic 20:14:40 yes 20:14:44 it's doing some sort of research 20:14:46 it's on reddit 20:14:47 * oklopol wanna try! 20:14:49 i found it interesting 20:14:56 oklopol: just click Continue or whatever 20:15:07 @ reddit? 20:15:12 even if you are under 18, just click the "yes, over" link and put your real age in the Age: field 20:15:15 it allows it 20:15:19 oklopol: ? 20:15:21 i'm SO 18 20:15:21 reddit = reddit.com 20:15:27 hehe 20:15:31 i was saying it for the benefit of anyone else in here 20:16:19 now for the benefit of a certain idiot: where do i press Continue :) 20:16:24 (I think I ended up pickeing the more "regular" one in each case) 20:16:33 oklopol: Step 2. 20:16:37 It's to the right of step 1. 20:16:52 "step"? 20:16:53 WetRiffs.com (the site I mentioned/set up in xkcd #305) now has guitar-in-shower submissions up. (Gallery is NSFW) (wetriffs.com) 20:16:54 this one? 20:16:58 no? 20:17:00 :P 20:17:18 i see no "steps" on reddit.com 20:17:22 #75 20:17:26 oh 20:17:37 * SimonRC fwaps oklopol 20:17:39 on the page, [1] 20:17:45 click Begin Experiment 20:17:45 :P 20:17:49 profit 20:18:09 75. :The New Nostradamus - Can a fringe branch of mathematics forecast the future? 20:18:12 i give up 20:18:16 browsing is too hard 20:18:25 http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs 20:18:29 i have linked that twice 20:18:52 oh 20:18:55 i missed that link 20:18:56 sorry 20:19:11 was wondering what you were referring to on the next line :D 20:26:34 On average, they guessed 55.4815% correct with a standard deviation of 3.008. 20:26:47 pff 20:26:49 maybe i'm predictable 20:26:52 i got over 60% 20:26:55 64% iirc 20:27:26 i just always chose the cuter duck 20:27:35 ... duck? :P 20:27:48 well, yes :D 20:29:15 i'm pretty sure i was choosing the cuter one, but a part of me wanted to be as predictable as possible since SimonRC made it sound a good thing :P 20:29:21 *unpredictable 20:29:31 i'm not sure if i managed to avoid that 20:29:33 foo 20:29:42 if you are just being unpredictable on purpose 20:29:46 you're basically trashing the research results 20:29:47 might've been more predictable if i'd had no idea what it was. 20:29:51 putty needs to look more like a web browser 20:29:56 bsmntbombdood: um why 20:30:20 i'm was not being unpredictable on purpose, but i'm not sure i managed to be as predictable as i really would've been 20:30:42 naturally given 90 choises, i'd choose a simple criteria and use that. 20:31:33 well not naturally, probably. 20:32:06 you are just meant to choose whichever is more aesthetically pleasing to you 20:32:16 like just pressing the shorter one, that would be even clearer trashing of the experiment, now i at least tried to take a "nice" one 20:33:07 the problem is i have no idea what "pleases me aesthetically" 20:33:16 whichever you like more 20:33:23 whichever you think is nicer 20:33:55 the problem is i'll just choose which looks better 20:34:18 that#s the point 20:34:22 i mean 20:34:35 i'll just choose an arbitrary criteria, i'm pretty sure 20:34:48 don't even TIHNK about criteria 20:34:55 some of those definately look nice 20:35:03 but most of them are... blobs 20:35:13 so i just choose a random one 20:35:27 i tried to force myself to think one of them is nicer than the other 20:35:58 but i don't think i'd actually do that, i'd choose either a random blob or just take a simple comparison routine and use that 20:36:16 hmm... why do we always end up discussing my bad qualities :PP 20:36:25 i'm gonna get me something to drink 20:36:43 i'll do that again, and reaaaally examine their beauty this time 20:37:06 you're just meant to pick as quick as possible 20:37:10 oh 20:37:11 hmm 20:37:13 split decision, "which is better/nicer?" 20:37:25 since you're oklopol, just choose the one you would most like to have sex with. 20:37:26 it's to analyze what aestheticness really is 20:37:33 oerjan: this would probably work. 20:37:36 except i'll start wondering what the AI is thinking at about the third pic... 20:37:50 and analyzing my own choises 20:37:52 hey 20:37:55 fun idea :D 20:37:57 i'll do that 20:39:35 meh, the page doesn't wanna load again 20:39:38 oh 20:39:40 now it did 20:41:45 -!- Cesque has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:41:47 -!- Cesque2 has joined. 20:42:48 hmm, to be honest, it's quite confusing trying to get an erection over trivial 3d-models 20:43:03 -!- Cesque2 has left (?). 20:43:04 i might have to qdb that 20:43:07 xD 20:43:14 too much to cesque :) 20:43:16 *or 20:43:18 *for 20:43:31 heh 20:43:34 oh 20:43:46 *-oh 20:44:11 i guess i'm a bit relieved it's not working for me 20:44:51 -!- Cesque2 has joined. 20:45:19 * oerjan has clearly underestimated oklopol 20:45:42 :D 20:45:45 in what sense? 20:45:53 Apparently I choose bizarre abstract forms based on shape rather than color or brightness :P 20:46:05 ditto 20:46:29 can you really choose those without keeping track of your preferences yourself: | 20:46:39 um yes 20:46:46 wish i could 20:46:48 seriously what is wrong with you, i just chose which one i preferred 20:46:52 continuing the thing -> 20:46:57 i don't know 20:47:01 now maybe i wouldn't have made the suggestion if i had any idea what kind of pictures they were... 20:47:30 I just stared at the middle and then chose the one my eyes were drawn to. 20:51:39 -!- goffrie has quit ("Leaving."). 20:52:33 i got kicked out of class >_< 20:52:41 why? 20:52:42 congrats 20:52:52 On average, they guessed 55.6296% correct with a standard deviation of 1.9444. 20:52:54 hmm... 20:52:57 what was my previous :| 20:53:05 55 20:53:29 55.48 20:53:30 for being a dick to the teacher and then not doing the work i was supposed to 20:53:41 what's being a dick in this case? 20:53:56 ridiculing the activity 20:53:57 a dick in this case? 20:53:58 bsmntbombdood: well that's not very nice 20:53:59 i don't want to know 20:54:06 please keep the case away from me 20:54:12 i was kicked out once for telling a teacher a math problem was unsolvable 20:54:25 oklopol: and then you promptly solved it? 20:55:12 errr no 20:55:25 she wanted me to do it, because everyone else did 20:55:25 ;) 20:55:33 what problem? 20:55:54 hmm 20:55:59 it was about 8 years ago 20:56:02 something about cows 20:56:04 :D 20:56:15 so how did anyone else solve it? 20:56:29 i think they used some pattern they'd learned in the class 20:56:36 i never did my homework 20:56:48 because i felt i didn't need to 20:56:49 so it WAS solvable 20:56:53 yeah :D 20:57:17 the teacher showed it to another teacher, and i was right, it was unsolvable 20:57:38 so how did they solve it 20:57:40 she came to me almost crying and told me i still should've done it and not humiliated her in front of the class. 20:57:41 I am also an imperial nudity spotter by nature. 20:57:56 1. Problem is unsolvable 20:57:56 2. Others solved problem 20:57:59 when i just seriously had no idea how to do it :D 20:57:59 mutually exclusive. 20:58:04 SimonRC: wait what? 20:58:33 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes ) 20:59:00 1. we were only taught a few basic techniques 2. the test was always about the last technique taught 3. most kids do math without having any idea about it, just doing random pattern matching with the numbers 20:59:18 they did not solve it right, it was unsolvable, they just guessed what the teacher had meant 20:59:30 i have long forgotten what the point was :P 20:59:36 oh right, outkickity. 21:01:02 outkickity? 21:01:17 the act or instance of being kicked out... ity 21:01:25 or something 21:01:35 i like bending words in an ugly way 21:06:28 outkickality 21:06:36 outal kickage 21:07:47 pyroalgolagnia 21:08:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:08:21 anderotinisaotamellililiphillicanosorophis 21:08:40 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 21:09:23 if a teacher makes a mistake you notice one doesn't tell it after the lesson or so... 21:09:43 like that would be no fun 21:10:37 i wouldn't have said anything at all, it's just she wouldn't let me omit the assignment in a test since she wanted me to get a perfect score 21:11:06 bah 21:11:44 * jix likes to argue with teachers 21:11:54 luckily i have teachers that have no problem with that 21:11:54 yes 21:11:58 yup 21:12:09 * bsmntbombdood likes to fuck, eat, and kill teachers 21:12:10 i don't like arguing with anyone, it's just hard not to :D 21:12:13 hmm 21:12:15 except the ones who actually do want to get on with it and argue in their own time 21:12:18 i haven't done any of those :< 21:12:28 I mean, get on with the lesson now 21:14:29 > '\0o97' 21:14:36 hehe 21:14:44 oerjan: /q lambdabot 21:15:05 i'll make ololobot redirect oerjan to lambdabot soon :P 21:15:15 and bring it here, since it's down, i see 21:15:37 ehird`: i am actually in #haskell, demonstrating 21:15:46 well you're not in #esoteric 21:15:47 ;P 21:32:02 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:42:49 3 21:51:02 -!- Cesque2 has quit ("Leaving"). 22:08:06 * SimonRC goes to bed 22:47:17 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:01:38 I wonder if there's a Unicode encoding with an "offset marker", so you can say "The following text is all offset by " 23:01:45 interesting 23:02:01 That would probably make encoding in any language smaller, since the offset of the first character in any given language is a constant. 23:03:07 e.g. Chinese would be reduced to the offset into the list of Chinese characters, which would generally fit into two bytes rather than three. 23:03:17 tyhat would be cool 23:03:19 how about extending unicode 23:03:20 :P 23:03:31 No need to extend Unicode, just make a new encoding ... 23:05:33 Seriously, this makes waaaaaaaaaay too much sense to not exist ... 23:05:45 I mean, how often are you switching between languages so quickly that you can't have a constant offset? 23:06:00 I guess one of the advantages of UTF-8 is that you can take any offset and not get invalid text ... 23:06:07 s/offset/subset/ 23:09:59 GregorR: well Latin-based languages are not always consecutive, since they're ASCII+another page. i don't know whether other scripts are. 23:10:39 :-) 23:11:01 oerjan: Oh, that's a good point. 23:11:52 I'm pretty sure that the languages that are more interesting for this (e.g. Chinese/Japanese/Korean) are more contiguous, but probably not entirely (e.g. Japanese is the Chinese alphabet) 23:12:06 place_word_here = kanji? 23:12:12 Sure! :P 23:14:23 alternatively, 漢字 23:14:34 for fun metaness 23:41:38 =) 23:42:42 (When nobody talks for a while, ehird` spontaneously produces an emoticon) 23:42:56 Error: I have been found out 23:43:05 Trying to reduce 3x levels of meta-irony... (76%) 23:43:14 Error. Abort, Retry, Fail? 23:44:16 Miserably. 23:45:17 Miserably, Retry, Fail? 23:45:42 what's the difference between abort and fail? 23:45:54 I don't actually know. 23:46:06 iirc, Abort continued your comand set 23:46:10 Fail stopped it all 23:46:55 i'm not sure 23:47:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abort,_Retry,_Fail%3F 23:47:20 The message would prompt the user to hit "A" to abort the operation, "R" to try reading the data again, or "F" to attempt to proceed without the necessary data. 23:52:52 -!- pikhq has joined. 2007-10-11: 00:06:07 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:08:47 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:12:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:45:39 windows must hate linux... 01:45:52 i tried to install them in a small partition. 01:46:04 i knew that they would destroy grab 01:46:49 what i didn't expect was that they would think that the partition has error that can't be fixed and that they would immediately destroy the partition table. 01:47:04 for no reason 01:48:19 Jebus. 01:54:24 jebus? 01:56:40 oh ok i looked it up in urban dictionary... ;-) 01:59:50 jeebus 02:06:03 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:01:22 -!- Onyxyte has joined. 04:12:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:23:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:06:21 o 05:42:20 -!- g4lt-mordant has changed nick to g4lt\|\. 05:42:47 -!- g4lt\|\ has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 07:42:37 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:16:41 -!- g4lt-mordant has changed nick to galt. 08:24:05 -!- galt has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 08:49:03 -!- ^_` has joined. 08:49:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 08:49:23 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 09:21:10 -!- oklokol has joined. 09:21:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:22:12 web clients suck 09:32:24 -!- oklokol has quit ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)"). 09:32:54 -!- jix has joined. 10:30:22 -!- g4lt-sb100 has joined. 10:30:47 -!- g4lt-mordant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:35:01 -!- Onyxyte has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:37:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:59:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:36:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:40:20 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:57:11 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:57:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:15:36 -!- Onyxyte_ has joined. 15:32:49 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 15:55:53 * SimonRC decides that Shaun the Sheep is hillarious 15:56:22 you'd think aardman would get bored doing claymation 15:56:25 and start selling suits or something 15:58:51 -!- Onyxyte_ has left (?). 16:01:14 companies never get bored of anything profitable 16:17:21 It's the AMERICAN WAY 16:17:35 no, English 16:24:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:43:05 -!- jix has joined. 16:43:48 hi * 2 16:44:14 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit). 16:44:39 -!- jix has joined. 16:52:01 2hi 16:52:02 :P 16:52:58 no 16:53:08 sqrt(4h^2) 16:53:23 complex_equation_for_2hi 17:27:52 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 17:28:45 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:42:32 ni, hanging on in quiet desparation is the english way ;P 17:42:47 g4lt-sb100: groan 17:52:57 grr @ LUKS 17:53:09 LUKS don't matter 17:53:32 it's broken 17:53:41 whoosh 18:02:50 * SimonRC has diner. 18:03:41 * ehird` does not own a diner, but does own several dinners. 18:06:25 i want dinner 18:19:21 sweet, kucinich supports lowering the drinking age 18:19:46 heh 18:22:58 it's not as if kucinich has any chance of becoming president, though 18:23:04 i'm not an american and even i can guess that 18:23:44 http://www.stencilrevolution.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18221&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 18:23:47 wrong window 19:04:19 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:05:56 -!- helios24 has joined. 20:22:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:41:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:50:05 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 20:53:21 Anyone here? 20:53:27 yes 20:53:41 good 20:53:55 yes 21:08:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:30:33 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]"). 22:05:59 :O 22:06:15 (Random emotion produce cycle completed successfully, 2 bytes of message emitted.) 22:15:44 :-S 22:19:42 Heh, alternative to The Game: You win when you think about it, lose when you don't. 22:21:49 :-S 22:22:13 :-S 22:23:50 :-S 22:23:57 :-S 22:24:18 just sometimes, he really captures the geek nature 22:24:23 damn, wrong button 22:24:24 :-S 22:24:29 :-S 22:24:32 :-S 22:24:37 :-S 22:24:40 :-S 22:24:43 :-S 22:24:44 :-S 22:24:49 :-S 22:24:50 :-S 22:24:51 :-S 22:24:57 :-S 22:24:59 :-S 22:25:00 :-S 22:25:00 :-S 22:25:00 :-S 22:25:00 :-S 22:25:01 :-S 22:25:01 :-S 22:25:02 :-S 22:25:03 :-S 22:25:03 :-S 22:25:04 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:25:05 :-S 22:25:05 :-S 22:25:06 :-S 22:25:08 :-S 22:25:09 :-S 22:25:10 :-S 22:25:11 :-S 22:25:13 :-S 22:25:14 :-S 22:25:24 :-S 22:25:25 :-S 22:25:27 :-S 22:25:28 well that was fun 22:25:32 yup 22:25:37 bash.org? 22:25:43 >_< 22:25:45 if you want 22:25:48 CBA 22:25:49 not like it'll be accepted though 22:26:00 YHTBT 22:26:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:26:18 and Sgeo missed it 22:26:35 What did I miss? 22:26:39 fun 22:28:04 Ah, the Game which I lost ty a lot, and flooding 22:28:04 stfu 22:28:25 @:P 22:28:44 S-: 22:28:50 S-: 22:28:58 :( 22:32:08 * SimonRC goes 22:44:21 * SimonRC goes to bed 22:44:45 * ehird` goes. Go is to the pig. 23:06:30 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:09:54 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 23:27:49 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("Leaving"). 23:35:47 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:38:56 -!- importantshock has joined. 23:39:57 -!- importantshock has quit (Client Quit). 23:40:21 -!- importantshock has joined. 23:48:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 2007-10-12: 00:14:53 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 00:25:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:26:23 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 00:53:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:57:08 w00ts. 00:57:56 what 01:12:04 TELL ME WHAT 01:19:44 Weekend. 01:21:36 i has 3 day weekend 01:24:35 As do I. :D 01:24:53 we should orgify with oklopol 01:26:04 XD 01:26:36 i see you've got your eye-protective squint down well 01:35:52 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 01:37:43 what fun, 3:35 am, and i have to write two essays for school <3 01:38:25 i did get a good 7 hours sleep during the day, so i'm not tired, but it *might* be a bit more fun to use the night for coding 01:38:33 also, orgies are always a good idea 01:41:27 6:24 PM, and I don't have to do anything. 01:41:29 (yet) 01:42:01 *healthy 01:42:12 (if you know what i'm fixing, you are a freak.) 01:42:36 o you lucky bastard 01:42:38 o 01:42:39 o 01:42:44 hmm, guess i should eat something 01:43:08 oh em gee pikhq has the same time as me 01:43:18 just did 3 math exams to compensate for my lack of attendance @ classes 01:43:32 hmph, why do i always get the bad times :< 01:43:35 foods -> 01:43:35 wait what? 01:43:46 [18:41] 6:24 PM, and I don't have to do anything. 01:43:54 your clock is seriously off mister 01:44:02 (03:41:26) (pikhq) 6:24 PM 01:44:07 time dilation 01:44:51 IM IN UR CLOCK, DILATING UR TIME 01:45:22 hmm... i should practise this leaving the computer thing. 01:45:25 -> 01:45:39 actually leaving might be good practise. 01:47:44 bsmntbombdood: s/24/42/ ;) 01:47:55 Typo'd. 02:49:30 howdy, folks 02:49:34 what's up? 02:50:05 very little, apparently 02:50:44 * Sgeo hasn't been working on PSOX 02:50:45 :( 02:52:59 my nipples!! 02:53:09 o_O 03:18:44 yay done 03:19:27 3 math exams, and 2 essays, and i still have time to spare! 03:20:04 (i guess one of my essays was 25% the requested length though...) 03:20:51 my black nipple hair is only 2cm now, it was like 8, but it got ripped off :<< 03:21:06 TMI? 03:21:07 (just a single hair, i'm a freak) 03:21:08 oh boy 03:21:42 you know an essay is good when you end it in "bukkake" 03:21:49 indeed 03:22:25 hmm, alright, i was supposed to eat something... 03:22:29 now, perhaps -> 03:23:51 hmm, perhaps i should attach a bukkake link or something, the teacher might not know what it is 03:24:09 'a picture is worth a thousand words' 03:24:56 indeed, i'll just print out an example 03:25:44 actually, i'm not sure if she'll read it, the course is just passed or failed, no grade 03:25:46 don't print, show her 03:25:52 so... why would she bother 03:26:01 that sounds good too 03:26:22 i'll need more sperm doners though, or it's not really bukkake :| 03:26:25 "doner" 03:26:26 hmm 03:26:41 i wonder how that's spelled 03:27:09 donor 03:27:10 ah 03:27:16 you know what they say...a demonstration is worth 1000 pictures 03:36:47 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 03:45:07 -!- galt has joined. 03:46:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:50:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:52:42 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:00:00 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 04:00:51 -!- g4lt-sb100 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:04:52 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:05:55 -!- oklopl has joined. 04:06:34 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklopol. 04:11:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:22:48 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 04:22:52 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lost terminal"). 04:23:15 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 04:52:14 GCC-MISC. Stupid idea? Or BRILLIANT SCHEME? 04:55:07 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 04:56:50 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 04:58:46 Brilliant. 05:03:09 Now, I want a Turing machine implemented in Magic: The Gathering. 05:03:15 All in favor? 05:07:18 old, but interesting 05:08:15 If done right? 05:08:36 As in "within the rules of Magic"? 05:08:41 yes 05:08:50 But has it been done? 05:08:56 (if so, that kicks ass) 05:09:04 (and I want to play that deck) 05:09:31 hmm hmm, there was something similar in the wiki, but it was just an idea, i think 05:10:19 there are some 50000 iirc in magic the gathering, and at least a few infinite loops have been implemented, so you can prolly do some computation :P 05:10:37 :D 05:10:48 i know a guy who's in the finnish top10 05:11:02 and all my friends are all-around geeks 05:17:16 were you thinking like, first X cards to initialize, then Y cards to represent the actual program? 05:18:14 Possible. 05:18:21 if the execution was to deterministic, you should really choose the initialization cards wisely, since it's usually actually *played* 05:18:24 *is 05:18:34 What'd matter is if it's possible to do via the effects of cards. 05:19:10 Perhaps have the program cards be ones with effects that can let you pull cards from the library to your hand, so that you can actually initialise. 05:19:55 hmm, but you mean the player would need to be a part of the program? that would make it 1) less cool 2) more possible 05:23:05 The player would need to at least start the program. 05:23:32 Consider it like toggling bits on a PDP to get the bootloader in place. 05:25:56 hmm... PDP? :| 05:26:53 but anyways, the problem with effects is there aren't many fully automatic effects, most require the player to make choises after playing the card 05:27:50 For the sake of sanity, I will assume non-tournament-legal cards may be played. . . 05:28:24 Allowing you to use the Mox Lotus to make land a non-issue. 05:34:22 Any ideas? 05:58:56 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee, or not coffee, that is the question"). 06:00:12 no, hamlet allusions aren't totally lame 06:02:38 It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, 06:02:39 it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, 06:02:39 it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, 06:02:39 it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, 06:02:39 it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, 06:02:41 we had everything before us, we had nothing before us 06:02:44 etc... 06:03:12 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 06:03:16 ... a Hamlet of Two Cities? 06:04:14 more like a Cliche of Two shitty stories 06:12:27 a tale of two places that are about to host walmarts 06:14:10 There are two cities without wal-marts? 06:14:59 I thought even Amishville Pennsylvania had a Wal-Mart, although it's a Wall's Marte there. 06:17:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:32:36 Either I'm not very good at decoding Unicode, or my offset-based encoding concept isn't very good :P 06:33:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:49:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:51:01 -!- oklopol has joined. 06:59:38 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:02:52 -!- oklopl has joined. 07:41:10 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:25:04 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 08:44:28 -!- jix has joined. 09:47:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 12:36:48 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklopol. 13:02:40 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:05:42 How can MTG do any computation? 13:40:19 wow, the guy who founded Y Combinator with PG wrote the Morris worm and founded Viaweb 13:40:21 i didn't know that. 13:43:42 exciting life 13:43:57 inded 13:44:00 *indeed 13:44:00 :P 14:10:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:50:20 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 14:53:02 -!- rajappan has joined. 14:53:35 -!- rajappan has left (?). 14:53:56 -!- jix has joined. 14:59:34 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:52:11 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:04:04 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:04:14 -!- jix has joined. 16:08:16 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:52:56 -!- fax has joined. 16:53:02 hello 16:57:57 I'm gonna run a contest for brainfuck 16:58:03 hm 16:58:04 what type 16:58:11 Write a program which given some string of text outputs a brainfuck program which prints that text. The aim is to produce as small a brainfuck program as you can. 16:58:19 already been done 16:58:31 but.. It can't be done 16:58:36 yes it can 16:58:39 ehird`: egobot's algorithm is shit 16:58:39 it's been done as a competition before 16:58:43 bsmntbombdood: no 16:58:44 ohh 16:58:46 bsmntbombdood: the competition 16:58:51 orly? 16:58:55 yes 16:58:55 wait 16:58:59 Where are the results? 16:59:08 I'll still try 16:59:12 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/results0.txt 16:59:21 admittedly, the output size is shit 16:59:28 but, a competition for those programs has been done 16:59:39 oh 16:59:42 oh, and fax, proving the output is the best possible is impossible 16:59:48 bsmntbombdood: Yes 17:00:04 ehird`: You won't have to use brainfuck do it though 17:00:07 oh 17:02:37 bsmntbombdood: How do you know that actually 17:02:46 kolgomorov complexity 17:02:53 ah o k 17:03:07 I assumed it based on chaitins stuff 17:03:17 bsmntbombdood used ACADEMIC TERMS. Critical hit! Enemy fax fainte.d 17:03:23 hahaha 17:05:32 make brainfuck without the ugly nesting [] 17:05:39 so that any string is valid 17:06:02 hah 17:07:16 hmpf 17:07:19 +[>.+<] Real random byte generator. 17:07:23 no it's not :/ 17:07:47 that's not random :P 17:09:47 * SimonRC goes shopping 17:17:35 haha shopping? 17:30:09 -!- Cesque has joined. 17:32:22 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:38:31 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:42:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:49:08 how were the strings on the brainfuck constants wiki page generated? 17:50:33 for the wrapping ones, someone wrote a search program i think 17:51:00 the non-wrapping ones are a bit hodge-podge 17:51:36 -!- Cesque has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:51:43 -!- Cesque has joined. 18:30:11 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:31:52 :t (//) 18:31:59 argh 18:32:32 prefix integer-divide? 18:32:55 some array operator, apparently 18:43:01 -!- Cesque has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:43:51 -!- Cesque has joined. 19:05:48 ok 19:05:49 http://rafb.net/p/tEDLkD38.txt 19:05:57 This is it 19:06:20 > would be faster than [-] 19:06:26 Uses linear memory though 19:06:33 instead of constant 19:06:44 not that it matters :p 19:07:15 > is better than [-] though 19:07:17 because it's shorter 19:09:43 TRICKY TRICKY 19:09:45 OOPS 19:09:59 hehe 19:10:59 use the FLAC algorithm 19:11:05 haha 19:11:11 flac is for audio data, no? 19:11:19 It is lossless 19:11:28 no way can I implement flac in bf though :/ 19:11:35 it's easy actually 19:11:37 flac in bf would be ridiculous 19:11:42 flac is a very complex algorithm 19:11:46 with a huge C implementation 19:11:49 no it's not... 19:11:56 maybe we are talking about a different flac. 19:12:03 http://flac.sourceforge.net/ 19:12:11 (bsmntbombdood) oh, and fax, proving the output is the best possible is impossible <<< it's definately possible for any distinct string, just not the general case 19:12:19 oklopol: huh? 19:12:36 oklopol: Really? 19:12:40 oklopol: incorrect 19:12:41 how can you 19:12:51 oklopol: given a program to generate a string, it's not possible to prove there's none shorter 19:13:03 really? :| 19:13:13 Sometimes it is possible to prove it 19:13:21 ah 19:13:22 sorry 19:13:25 It might be impossible to prove it in another case though won't it? 19:13:38 i always fail at this ;) anyways, it's *sometimes* possible 19:13:48 is it? 19:13:48 it will be impossible in some cases 19:13:58 oklopol: YOu might like http://www.cs.umaine.edu/~chaitin/unknowable/ 19:14:03 he talks about this 19:14:26 i've read it all 19:14:31 it's just i'm pretty dumb 19:14:32 ah ok 19:15:30 oklopol: we should invite fax to our orgy 19:15:40 That is a good idea 19:15:41 indeed 19:15:44 :O 19:15:50 :O 19:15:50 ASL!?! 19:15:55 I thought you said the other thing 19:15:59 fax: we should invite oklopol 19:16:13 did someone say orgy? 19:16:15 i mean, uh 19:16:16 nevermind 19:16:41 have you and bsmntbombdood planned to have an orgy too, fax :P 19:16:54 hmm, i gotta go listen to deathchain soon 19:17:02 my first time in a finnish bar :P 19:17:10 and i'm like 18.6 19:17:22 what's the drinking age, 18? 19:17:25 yep 19:17:28 bsmntbombdood: 18.3 19:17:36 ehird`: what? 19:17:43 i've been in many german bars though, don't know if that's the same thing 19:17:47 bsmntbombdood: just a joke in reference to oklopol's 18.6 19:18:31 me oklopol and fax are like 5000s of miles away 19:18:53 if you want to have an orgy I can bring some guy 19:18:55 lol 19:19:15 fax: do you happen to be a woman? 19:20:36 hmm 19:20:36 hmm... got my synth here, i should make my own version of http://www.mikseri.net/artists/speedpianosoolo.23659.php 19:20:52 sweden and finland together look like a flaccid cock and balls 19:21:02 bsmntbombdood: we needed to know this. 19:21:06 the keys have a pretty orgastic feel to them 19:21:19 yes, you should see the euro coin without norway and russia... 19:21:26 it's a fucking penis :P 19:21:36 we also needed to know this 19:22:52 http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:2euro1-dick.jpg 19:23:14 that's a bit deformed, actually, but the real one is almost as dicky 19:23:30 haha 19:23:36 exactly 19:23:48 is there a list of all known Brainfuck->c optimizations? 19:23:54 i wonder if some of my ideas have already been done 19:25:02 "all known" 19:25:19 "what about it" 19:25:36 that's a dumb question 19:25:40 why 19:26:20 oh my god speed piano soolo is great 19:26:25 are you listening yet? 19:26:28 ARE YOU?` 19:26:48 i'd rather be fucking 19:26:50 er, sailing 19:26:59 the keys are like right next to each other 19:27:36 THE SLIP WAS RATHER FRUEDIAN 19:28:10 frue-indeed-dian. 19:28:22 hm 19:28:27 ehird`: what keys? 19:28:31 10 minutes 19:28:37 oh my god, there's gonna be people there 19:28:45 i'm gonna die. 19:28:46 oklopol: it's a bash quote reference 19:29:17 oh, heh, i naturally assumed you were referring to speed piano soolo! :) 19:36:47 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 19:52:48 hm 19:52:55 Do you think huffman would be really hard? 19:53:10 in brainfuck 19:53:12 [speaking of Freudian...] 19:53:19 fax: Probably. No bitwise ops. 19:56:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:58:47 hm :/ 19:58:56 I need more peopel to enter this because I'm out of god ideas 19:59:33 god? 19:59:38 good 20:00:09 -!- Cesque has quit ("Leaving"). 20:10:24 -!- galt has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 20:22:58 * GregorR implements a god in BF. 20:26:28 hm 20:26:51 Isn't there some list of brainfuck programs which have been shown to be the smallest 20:35:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:35:44 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:37:09 !bf >+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<. 20:37:12 ? 20:37:12 .bf >+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<. 20:37:15 ah: D 20:37:55 !bf +>>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<<[>.+.++++++++++++++.++.>+++++++[<------------>-]<-.>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]<--<] 20:38:03 Heh, for a second I thought you'd confused EgoBot X-D 20:38:09 lol 20:39:04 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:51:57 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 20:53:45 -!- cmeme has joined. 21:17:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:23:56 desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu d 21:24:07 er 21:24:10 who hacked egobot 21:24:25 * fax giggles 21:25:35 !ps -d 21:25:39 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 21:25:41 2 GregorR: ps 21:25:49 See the daemon :P 21:25:53 ah 21:25:54 what does it do 21:25:58 :P 21:27:31 I suspect that lets you run unlambda code, but daemons have the interesting property that no matter how you get the message to EgoBot, it responds in the channel the daemon was started in. 21:27:51 so someone wrote an unlambda program to repeat desu? 21:27:54 must be pretty bored. 21:30:38 unlambda program to repeat desu in < 512 chars? 21:30:42 I don't think that is possible 21:30:50 indeed. 21:31:28 Alternatively, a program that was running to produce that just took a very long time before dying *shrugs* 21:31:47 yes desu | tr '\n' ' ' 21:32:09 heh 21:43:28 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 21:43:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:50:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 21:51:11 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:52:35 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:04:27 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out). 22:25:00 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 22:25:30 !help 22:25:33 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 22:25:35 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 22:25:52 !qbf CAT 22:25:58 !qbf CAT: ALIVE OR DEAD? 22:26:00 hmph 22:26:00 !bf_txtgen Hello, Brainfuck. I like cheesy-potatoes. 22:26:01 useless 22:26:15 !bf_txtgen Hello, brainfuck. I like huge text generation code that lags the bot. 22:29:21 597 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++>++<<<<-]>>---.<----.+++++++..+++.>>-.>++.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++.>-.++++++++.+++++.<------------.>+++++++.<---.>----------.>++.>.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.<<+.---.++.------.>>.<<+++.+++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--.>.<<-.>.<++++.----.>>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<. 22:29:31 438 ++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>++++++++>++++<<<<-]>.>>+++++.<..+++.>>----.------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<+++.>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++.<+++++++++.>---.<<+++.------------------.>---.<-----------------------------------------------------.--------------.<+.>.>+.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++.------.>.<--.+++++.---..++++++++++++++.+++++ 22:30:00 1093 chars :/ 22:30:08 for "Hello, brainfuck. I like huge text generation code that lags the bot." 22:31:30 fax: huh? 22:31:35 fax: yours does better 22:32:57 http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8433/picture1uu7.png 22:33:05 er 22:33:37 you wrote that desu thing! 22:34:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:34:52 oh hmm 22:43:10 hello 22:43:17 Hi 22:43:20 is there any way to make a "double" pipe? 22:43:25 ? 22:43:34 stin to stout of another program and vice versa. 22:43:35 !bf_txtgen Hello, Brainfuck! 22:43:54 maybe with a fifo 22:44:00 Tritonio: If only there was in the shell :( 22:44:03 fifo? 22:44:17 Tritonio: It can be done, of course, but there's no command-line way of doing it except for third-party apps e.g. twinpipe. 22:44:25 grr 22:44:27 like mkfifo foo; proga < foo | progb > foo 22:44:29 twinpipe exists 22:44:29 154 ++++++++++++[>++++++>++++>++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.>>+++++.>..+++.<<----.------------.<------.>>>+++.<----.++++++++.+++++.--------.>+++.<---.++++++++.<+. [500] 22:44:33 * fax puts down his C editor 22:44:34 hmmmm... i'll try twinpipe 22:44:41 fax: Hahahah 22:44:55 bsmntbombdood's method is more general but involves more typing and cleaning up :) 22:45:07 Argh! 22:45:11 EgoBot is better than my code 22:45:20 Pff, not possible. 22:45:24 EgoBot is a horrendous mess. 22:45:36 GregorR: he's talking about the bf_txtgen size 22:45:42 Ooh 22:45:43 this stuff 22:45:44 [>++++++>++++>++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-] 22:45:49 Oh - well then that's calamari's text generator that's better, not EgoBot :P 22:45:50 This is clever 22:45:56 EgoBot only knows how to call other programs :) 22:46:16 fax: it's not algorithmic though 22:46:18 it's genetic 22:46:25 ohhh 22:46:31 and written in java 22:46:33 I saw a java one which worked that way 22:46:41 ok :| 22:46:51 Maybe algorithms is the wrong approach 22:46:58 I will continue anyway 22:47:00 GregorR, what do you mean that it need's more cleanup? 22:47:09 needs* 22:47:11 normal compressors are algorithmic 22:47:21 Tritonio: you have to finish with removing the fifo 22:47:30 fax: That's the one EgoBot uses. 22:48:12 ok thanx! :-) 23:00:15 GregorR: You think maybe someone should redo EgoBot? 23:00:52 I wouldn't complain so long as it maintained the ability to drop in external interpreters *shrugs* 23:03:07 I'm assuming that it'd just run through a config file specifying which external interpreters are available, how to call them, and what name to expose to the IRC channel. 23:03:56 That'd be pretty. 23:04:40 What language[s] will you write EgoBot in? 23:07:09 i will redo egobot, i guess 23:07:13 kajirbot was posed as a replacement for it 23:07:16 but development stagnated 23:07:21 i could pick it up again and rename it if anyone wanted 23:08:16 Please rename it 23:08:26 what do you mean? 23:08:29 i meant rename it to Egobot 23:08:33 oh 23:08:34 ok 23:09:43 fax: scheme! 23:09:44 or C 23:09:50 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:09:59 what 23:10:01 like actually 23:10:02 ? 23:10:57 what? 23:11:00 yeah... 23:12:38 Don't name it EgoBot :( 23:12:49 i've never done anything like that in scheme, might be fun 23:12:49 i was just replying to 23:12:50 (11:10:03 PM) pikhq: GregorR: You think maybe someone should redo EgoBot? 23:12:51 You can make an EgoBot replacement, sure, but Ego* things are usually mine. 23:12:55 GregorR: of course 23:13:13 ehird`: Redo != Reimplement precisely down to the name. 23:13:32 GregorR: I interpreted redo = reimplement 23:13:43 C might be a better language though 23:13:47 ehird`: Reimplement != Reimplemement and give it the same name 23:13:49 bsmntbombdood: No! 23:13:51 GregorR: :P 23:14:00 I would probably go for scheme, myself. 23:14:01 fax: why not? 23:14:04 ehird`: jikes is a reimplementation of javac, but it's not called javac. 23:14:05 because it's C 23:14:31 The bot does not need to do much, it just needs to communicate with IRC, have some basic commands for controlling subprocesses and run some external programs 23:14:31 * GregorR <3 D 23:14:42 fax: C is a good language 23:14:46 I would write it in sh 23:14:49 C, in this case, is completely useless and will just add lots of stupid mallocs() etc that are really not needed 23:15:04 bsmntbombdood: No not really 23:15:13 yes it is 23:15:18 i love C 23:15:19 bsmntbombdood: It's fine but it's ruining too many peoples potential 23:15:36 uhh...i don't give a shit how other people us it 23:15:40 bsmntbombdood: no I like C and I like writing C but I hate what it does to other people 23:17:56 -!- Nucleo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:56 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:56 -!- zuzu_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:57 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:57 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:58 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:58 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:58 -!- tokigun has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:17:59 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:00 -!- g4lt-mordant has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:00 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:00 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- sp3tt has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- lament has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- ehird` has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- fax has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:18:02 -!- EgoBot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:19:31 -!- GregorR has joined. 23:19:31 -!- g4lt-mordant has joined. 23:19:31 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:19:31 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:19:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:19:31 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:19:31 -!- fax has joined. 23:19:31 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:19:31 -!- lament has joined. 23:19:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:19:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:19:31 -!- mtve has joined. 23:19:31 -!- SimonRC has joined. 23:19:31 -!- sp3tt has joined. 23:19:31 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 23:19:38 -!- Nucleo has joined. 23:19:38 -!- sekhmet has joined. 23:19:38 -!- zuzu_ has joined. 23:19:52 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 23:19:52 -!- tokigun has joined. 23:19:52 -!- Overand has joined. 23:19:53 kajirbot isn't catchy enough for a name 23:19:53 bsmntbombdood: ditto 23:20:03 i think everyone thinks that 23:20:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:20:16 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:20:16 -!- helios24 has joined. 23:20:54 you know what would be cool 23:20:57 a public irc logging service 23:21:22 you'd go and register the channel on its site/some bot, it'd verify you owned it, then put a logging bot in there and expose a web interface 23:21:31 there is... 23:21:33 :/ 23:21:35 fun stuff 23:21:42 ircbrowse 23:21:43 bsmntbombdood: with public registration? 23:21:50 ircbrowse doesn't let anyone automatically register their channel 23:21:51 yep 23:21:56 yeah they do 23:22:05 link to register page? 23:23:09 you send the guy an email 23:23:18 and he manually does it? 23:23:18 bsmntbombdood' 23:23:26 so is that "automatically"? 23:23:27 no. 23:23:28 bsmntbombdood's definition of "automatic" isn't quite "automatic" 23:23:28 ehird`: Who needs malloc? 23:23:39 Just use GNU C's variable-sized arrays. ;) 23:23:39 GregorR: ;) 23:23:48 pikhq: eeew no 23:23:57 Just use D's dynamic arrays. 23:24:01 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 23:24:06 pikhq: that's not C 23:24:07 pikhq: Right now there is the very essence of sorrow and dispair ripping open your body. 23:24:10 pikhq: I hope you enjoy it. 23:24:11 Well, fine. If you need it to work after a function *returns*, you'd need to malloc. . . 23:24:34 What's *wrong* with int array[size_here];? 23:24:43 pikhq: ... lol 23:24:52 pikhq: int[size_here] array; // is better :P 23:24:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 23:25:00 pikhq: i guess you never, oh, get keyboard input or anything. 23:25:00 Portability issues aside. 23:25:16 ehird`: There's a good time for malloc. . . 23:25:21 like 23:25:21 at/nick bsmntbombdood 23:25:24 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 23:25:26 You don't write an IRC bot in C 23:25:28 lol 23:25:33 Although getline is a good deal simpler to deal with. 23:25:34 exactly 23:25:36 (I know.. I have but it was stupid) 23:25:46 scheme would win at this 23:25:47 EgoBot is in C++ >_> 23:25:52 That's even worse :| 23:25:55 GregorR: Die :| 23:25:57 eeeeeeew 23:26:02 indeed 23:26:02 * GregorR <3 C++ ... with the hatred :P 23:26:09 * pikhq likes C *with GNU extensions*. . . 23:26:15 * GregorR likes D. 23:26:33 * fax prefers Prolog 23:26:43 * pikhq hasn't done D 23:26:44 pikhq: Do you use case 'a'..'z' : ? 23:26:46 fax: I have to assume that's a joke :P 23:26:58 hmm. should this: nc -l -p 23291 -vv | lua 23:26:59 fax: It makes a small handful of things easier. 23:27:07 I h8 your C code 23:27:08 so much! 23:27:09 redirect the stdout of nc to lua? 23:27:11 Although the proper syntax is "case 'a'...'z':" 23:27:29 Tritonio: Uhhh, yes ... won't lua take a program by default, so that'll just accept any ol' program from a TCP port? 23:27:46 shouldn't it? 23:27:54 but i still cannot run anything 23:27:55 Tritonio: Yes, but that's a terrible idea :P 23:27:59 i know 23:28:01 I guess 23:28:01 echo "1 + 1;" | lua 23:28:03 would have to work 23:28:05 fax: . . . Because if(c > 'a' && c < 'z') is simpler to read? 23:28:09 lua probably needs an argument to read from stding 23:28:09 eek 23:28:13 * fax forgot lua 23:28:24 pikhq: Because something written in the appropriate language is easier to read! 23:28:38 ... 23:28:49 maybe i should write the bot in syntaxless! 23:28:53 god, that'd be so ugly 23:28:58 So, you're not arguing that using that is bad C style, but that using C is itself bad. 23:29:04 even i know stack-based languages are not really that usable :P 23:29:19 did anyone see my request for a syntaxless brainfuck? 23:29:26 i wonder how to do that 23:29:32 ehird`: Stack-based languages are excellent target languages. 23:29:46 ehird`: That is, it's much easier for a computer to write code for a stack-based language than for a human. 23:29:53 GregorR: Sure, sure. But not for writing an IRC bot ;) 23:29:58 Heh 23:30:00 Especially how primitive my language is. 23:30:14 Sorry, had to defend it since Plof3's internal language is a stacklang :P 23:30:16 [ code ] ' func bind <-- function definition 23:30:16 Fucking brilliant. . . 23:30:19 :P 23:30:29 ehird`: just use dc instead 23:30:35 By the time that the latest anti-Linux patent case is even getting *heard*, the patent will have expired. 23:30:55 GregorR: EgoBot uses netcat piped in or something right? 23:30:56 isn't that good? 23:31:06 bsmntbombdood: Yup. 23:31:10 bsmntbombdood: Major cheatzering. 23:31:20 what exactly is the command? 23:31:33 netcat -e ./egobotIRC 23:31:40 wow that's evil 23:31:40 :) 23:31:45 however netcat is kinda fun 23:31:46 but 23:31:46 evil 23:31:55 I didn't want to deal with sockets in C++ ^^ 23:32:05 oh, i didn't know netcat could do that 23:32:12 and C sockets are easy to deal with... 23:32:15 bsmntbombdood: You have to compile with -DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE 23:32:25 actually 23:32:29 netcat like that is kind of cool 23:32:31 fax: it's not a gaping security hole... 23:32:32 though writing nc -e is a one liner in perl :) 23:32:32 in that you can run simulated runs 23:32:35 bsmntbombdood: It is 23:32:36 by writing a fake file 23:32:38 bsmntbombdood: well 23:32:39 and piping it in 23:32:44 bsmntbombdood: It's part of a gaping security hoe 23:32:54 fax: it's just as a security hole as using sockets... 23:33:02 bsmntbombdood: if you have perl with the net module you can implement nc -e anyway 23:33:04 Heheheh 23:33:05 i wonder if anyone wrote a (netcat func) function for scheme ;) 23:33:07 Gaping security hoe. 23:33:15 ehird`: yes 23:33:26 GregorR: lol! 23:33:32 (netcat (lambda (n) ...)) ; n is some kind of stream, or line, or whatever. 23:33:49 call-with-tcp-socket 23:33:55 right 23:33:58 but that passes a socket 23:34:00 not the input 23:34:03 thus, not like netcat 23:34:06 i still have problems.... lua | nc -l -p 23291 -vv works as it should. 23:34:11 wrong, it passes a stream 23:34:23 well, yeah 23:34:27 but its still just normal tcp-ness 23:34:31 it's not as simple as netcat 23:34:36 but this: nc -l -p 23291 -vv | lua doesn't work... 23:34:37 wrong... 23:34:46 ok, show me some example call-with-tcp-socket code 23:34:47 you still have to read from a file with netcat -e 23:34:56 which is the same as reading from a stream 23:36:02 Tritonio: lua might want to read until EOF, in this case closing the socket. 23:36:26 how is netcat not secure, anyway? 23:36:28 i never really understood that 23:36:40 you can exec it from php 23:36:46 beam a shell back.. 23:36:49 ehird`, there a tool called cryptcat i think 23:36:50 pretty easy 23:37:03 fax: isn't that just a system configuration problem 23:37:11 like nc but with with twofish encryption... (or blowfish?) 23:37:12 ehird`: It's one of many problems 23:37:16 ehird`: you just use (read-char stream) and (write-char stream) 23:37:17 fax: That's not an insecurity in netcat, that's an insecurity in whatever PHP script you're exploiting. 23:37:19 not hard at all 23:37:25 GregorR: Yes 23:37:34 exactly 23:37:35 Tritonio: no point 23:37:40 Tritonio: just use ssh instead 23:37:50 um 23:37:50 just ./netcat -e MyIRCBot should have 0 security flaws, right? 23:37:59 I wasn't joking btw 23:38:10 -DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE is an -actual- build flag you can pass 23:38:12 GregorR, you must be right... i hope there is some switch to change that behavior in lua 23:38:19 ehird`: It has $NUMBER_OF_FLAWS_IN_MyIRCBot 23:38:22 ehird`: unless MyIRCBot has execing-from-stdin 23:38:31 I wasn't like suggesting it was insecure.. I'm just saying you need that build to use -e 23:38:33 bsmntbombdood: then it'd be a retarded program 23:38:45 ehird`: or buffer overflow etc 23:38:48 GregorR: you'd have $NUMBER_OF_FLAWS_IN_MyIRCBot even without netcat. 23:38:54 so netcat isn't the problem here, it's the program 23:38:55 ehird`: Yup. 23:38:56 so - netcat is fine? 23:38:57 Yup 23:39:04 then phooey to everyone paranoid about it 23:39:10 I wasn't paranoid about it 23:39:13 It's a joke in the source code.. 23:39:23 like I said I didn't make it up 23:39:32 oh, wait 23:39:32 http://technopedia.info/tech/2006/02/22/everything-you-need-to-know-about-netcat.html 23:39:34 it's a real define? 23:39:35 crazy! 23:39:38 Look at the makefile 23:39:56 hmm 23:40:01 netcat -e seems to just be inetd, then 23:40:07 so why not use inetd i must wonder =) 23:40:09 everbody run netcat -l 12345 -e /bin/sh 23:40:16 bsmntbombdood: no :P 23:41:02 * GregorR does it. 23:41:07 KAY NOW WUT 23:41:08 (what is the difference between netcat -e and inetd?) 23:41:31 ehird`: netcat -e is one-time, inetd is persistent, opens multiple sockets as-necessary, etc? 23:41:40 hm, ok 23:41:54 inetd probably better then 23:41:56 * pikhq runs sudo chroot su unprivileged netcat -l 12345 -e /bin/sh 23:42:06 ehird`: inetd is better if you're making a server, certainly 23:42:15 netcat -e is more of a client. . . 23:42:19 Yuh 23:42:20 * ehird` runs just plain sudo netcat -l 12345 -e /bin/sh 23:42:23 nc -lvp 23:42:32 Or a server for which you want only one instance. Ever. 23:42:32 GregorR: an irc bot is simultaneously a server and client :) 23:42:33 pikhq: IT"S NOT WORKING 23:42:38 bsmntbombdood: ;p 23:42:56 ehird`: It's a server in the touchy-feely human sense, but it's only a client in the networking sense. 23:43:18 In the same way that the X11 server is, in fact, a server, despite stupid people complaining about it :P 23:43:37 x11 is fundamentally broken, never use it as an example :P 23:43:44 * GregorR <3 X11 23:43:46 how is an x11 server a server 23:43:56 bsmntbombdood: it runs on your machine and serves a networking server 23:44:00 bsmntbombdood: It listens on a socket for connections. 23:44:04 it just so happens you connect to it locally most of the time 23:44:13 hmm 23:44:17 bsmntbombdood: Also, it provides the service of a framebuffer to clients that want it *shrugs* 23:44:20 GregorR: No I love Prolog! 23:44:28 fax: I love delays. 23:44:31 GregorR: swipl has a x interface 23:44:33 GregorR: ;D 23:44:39 GregorR: They even implement an Emacs in Prolog 23:45:00 prolog is interesting academically 23:45:01 fax: wow liek it mst b good than lawl! 23:45:02 not practically 23:45:08 [GregorR][rdPrdx]dx 23:45:09 lol 23:45:18 ehird`: Rubbish! 23:45:24 also having an emacs written in it is one of the main reasons not to use a language ;) 23:45:37 hmf 23:45:42 Emacs dislikers! 23:45:43 Heck, it's permanently damaged Lisp's reputation! 23:45:48 ehird`: of course. that means doen't use C or lisp. 23:46:08 bsmntbombdood: one of the main reasons not to 23:46:10 not the single reason 23:46:15 ....lol 23:46:20 fax: Besides, I'm sure they didn't implement EMACS the OS, just a small subset of the default text editor for EMACS. 23:46:27 haha 23:46:51 When you replace the text editor, it's really a fairly-decent VM-based OS *shrugs* 23:46:53 i've actually seen people in #emacs call emacs an OS 23:46:57 and sincerely! 23:46:59 like it's a >positive That's because it /is/ an OS. 23:47:03 so? 23:47:03 I use Emacs as an OS 23:47:04 soon the homepage will say that, i guess 23:47:07 seriously 23:47:14 fax: lots of people do 23:47:20 When I have to use these computers in the lab I just run emacs fullscreen 23:47:23 Emacs is an OS running on top of a Lisp VM which a lot of people happen to use for its text editor. 23:47:24 these people are idiots, too, but hey 23:47:39 23:47:52 the problem with the emacs/os analogy, is that when you look it as an OS 23:47:55 emacs is a pretty shitty os 23:48:00 Heh 23:48:12 Emacs is an OS running on top of a Lisp VM which has an editor as its main UI metaphore. 23:48:20 haha 23:48:21 yeah 23:49:15 yes 23:49:25 it's not a very good one, though :) 23:49:34 hmm 23:49:50 with a bit of glue code, you could actually run real emacs as an OS couldn't you? 23:49:59 as in, not a clone on the bare metal like many 23:50:03 but real gnu emacs/xemacs 23:50:08 ehird`: it's been done 23:50:11 there's an emacs/linux 23:50:14 :o 23:50:16 right but that's linux 23:50:20 i mean no OS running at all 23:50:24 What you need to do is implement Elisp on bare metal. 23:50:26 well, it needs a kernel 23:50:29 I want a bootable emacs/linux 23:50:32 bsmntbombdood: sure, but you can write it yourself 23:50:37 CD 23:50:39 bsmntbombdood: where is it? 23:50:45 i mean, if a half-decent OSdever did it, and then implemented, say, an installation wizard 23:50:46 ehird`: you might as well use linux... 23:50:50 then we could investigate emacs as an OS 23:50:53 fax: don't remember sorry 23:50:55 fax: If I had any interest at all, I could make one in a few hours :P 23:50:59 objectively, because we wouldn't be thinking "oh this is a text editor" 23:51:14 GregorR: A few hours to burn a CD? 23:51:17 :p 23:51:23 bsmntbombdood: linux, though, is a huge-liek-xbox portion of an OS 23:51:26 A few hours to /make/ the distro. 23:51:29 emacs would no longer be the os 23:51:53 Idonno, I've always considered the kernel to be a fairly incidental part of the OS *shrugs* 23:51:57 small (well, big, but not linux-big) glue kernel code + emacs = Emacs actually as an OS 23:52:20 the more i say it 23:52:25 the more i think that that would be an AWESOME project 23:52:29 fax: hard to search for too :/ 23:52:35 bsmntbombdood: Yeah I couldn't find it 23:52:37 ehird`: the kernel used doesn't matter 23:52:42 bsmntbombdood: that's no the point 23:52:51 emacs would be the whole os 23:52:54 linux-which-just-runs-emacs is linux which just runs emacs 23:52:59 no 23:53:05 emacs-on-bare-metal-with-just-some-extra-glue-code is emacs as an os 23:53:18 fax: ask in #emacs maybe? 23:55:05 hmm 23:55:10 i should improve me typing speed 23:55:21 i type really fast when i can be bothered 23:55:29 i'm still much faster than most people even when i'm not bothered 23:55:38 (i am not bothered right now.) 23:55:44 it would be cool to type as fast as talking 23:55:59 We should set up a voicemail group chat wooooh 23:55:59 I can type just as fast as talking, actually a little faster. 23:56:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:56:08 When I try, of course. 23:56:08 o 23:56:09 GregorR: ok :P 23:56:18 ehird, I do the same. . . 23:56:21 Now let's argue until our faces turn blue about the protocol to use! 23:56:26 I also type much faster than I hand-write. w00ts. 23:56:36 you can do getto voip by just piping /dev/mic or whatever through netcat 23:56:41 when trying, my typing speed has maxed around 152WPM 23:56:50 (not a typo) 23:56:58 * pikhq does 70. You cheat. 23:57:03 no i don't :) 23:57:35 Actually, the WPM calculator was really accurate. It displayed some random text from its database that you couldn't see first-time, and counted mistakes for you 23:57:40 This thing: http://labs.jphantom.com/wpm/ 23:57:50 I did lots of tests with it, and my max was 152 23:57:53 my lowest was 125 23:58:26 ha yeah right 23:58:28 * bsmntbombdood does it 23:58:36 why yeah right? 23:58:44 what have i got to gain from lying about my typing speed? 23:59:24 epeen 23:59:34 pah 2007-10-13: 00:00:16 i'm not as silly as to lie about typing speed 00:00:21 nah 00:00:22 Wow! Your typing speed (with 4 mistakes) is: 90.93 wpm 00:00:23 I suck 00:00:29 what about cpm? :) 00:00:35 I don't know :| 00:00:40 I'll try again 00:00:42 i got 70wpm with 6 mistakes 00:00:48 that's faster than i thought 00:00:57 Jabbin == compatible with Google Voice, might work on GNU/Linux and is F/OSS. 00:01:00 * ehird` checks results... my cpm was 545-627 00:01:26 are we actually going to have a voice chat? 00:01:34 * ehird` won't join in 00:01:42 Wow! Your typing speed (with 4 mistakes) is: 76.41 wpm 307.5 cpm 00:01:44 :/ 00:01:49 I'm trying that again. 00:01:58 hah 00:02:18 it's funny, i use bad old qwerty and my typing speeds are generally a lot faster than most dvorak users 00:02:24 especially the ones that go on and on and on about it ;) 00:02:30 i want to switch to dvorak sometime though 00:02:47 350 cmp 00:02:49 cpm 00:02:50 i have these random pauses while i'm doing it 00:02:50 what is that? 00:02:58 dvorak? 00:03:02 it's a keyboard layout 00:03:08 what is cpm 00:03:12 characters per minute 00:03:14 ok 00:03:16 char/min 00:03:16 2 mistakes, 119.79 wpm, 537.6 cpm 00:03:40 * GregorR tries to do it with no mistakes ... 00:04:08 got 84 00:04:20 126.5 wpm with 3 mistakes :P 00:04:42 i just did it again... I am very tired, so my muscles aren't very fast right now, but I did give it a half-decent shot: 1 mistake, 135.48 wpm, 624.55 cpm 00:04:43 nice 00:04:44 Must ... get ... no mistakes ... 00:05:13 i guess i just type really, really fast :P 00:05:20 Too bad there isn't a typing tester that uses sourcecode as a benchmark. 00:05:30 i am actually really slow at typing code 00:05:31 144.23 wpm/608.57 cpm with no mistakes 00:05:35 I have to think almost every line 00:05:35 choose a language you're familiar with, and then pound away 00:05:49 I type much faster than I'm actually capable of coding *shrugs* 00:05:49 but that's just because I'm deciding what to write, of course 00:05:50 not the actual typing 00:05:58 I'm quite a bit faster at *typing* when I'm coding, and I've noticed I tend to make fewer typos. 00:06:21 Going back to voice chat :P Jabbin == compatible with Google Voice, might work on GNU/Linux and is F/OSS. 00:06:26 Any arguments? 00:06:34 nobody's up for a voice chat :P 00:06:50 Oh come on, I /hate/ my voice and I still like voice chat :P 00:07:17 i''l;ll dod it 00:07:19 I like voice chats, but not when I am tired and bleh. 00:07:21 I've also noticed an interesting trend with typos in IRC- the vast majority of the incorrect letters (or letter sequences) I type are phonetically equivalent. 00:07:27 jeez thoze typin test fuckd my fings 00:07:29 wtf?@?! 00:07:37 bsmntbombdood: ahahahahhahahha 00:07:45 lol 00:08:00 GregorR: voice chat, you say? 00:08:06 i literally rofl'd, except i leaned back on my chair probably too far instead of rolling on the floor 00:08:13 heh 00:08:38 also i read "fings" as "figs" first 00:08:41 which was even more hilarious 00:09:10 GregorR: E: Couldn't find package jabbin 00:09:14 that fails 00:09:19 lol 00:09:30 this needs to become a new in-joke. "Aw, man- that test totally fucked my figs!" "No way! You're fucking my figs!" 00:09:59 bsmntbombdood: There's a .deb on the jabbin web site. 00:10:11 executing arbitrary code?!?! 00:10:14 you're insane 00:10:37 macOS version: "In Development". Hm. 00:10:39 apt-get install is executing arbitrary code 00:10:43 i know :P 00:10:45 RodgerTheGreat: Yeah, unfortunate *sigh* 00:10:51 GregorR: O NOES!!121212 00:11:05 RodgerTheGreat: i wholehartedly agree 00:11:08 Is there a Google-voice-alike for OS X? 00:11:13 we could just all load up skype- it has good support across all platforms 00:11:19 skype is shady 00:11:24 Skype is crapzilla. 00:11:24 * RodgerTheGreat shrugs 00:11:25 on windows they used to send off your whole bios to their servers 00:11:31 lol 00:11:36 and also they scan /etc/password and firefox profiles on linux 00:11:43 firefox profile!! why does skype need to access that? 00:11:56 shady, and i don't like their business model, so fuck skype 00:12:17 k i have jabbin GregorR 00:12:49 GregorR: what now? 00:13:15 what host? 00:13:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("rebooting to update kernel"). 00:13:59 bsmntbombdood: Uh, I have a Google Voice account, do you? 00:14:06 Erm, Google Talk. 00:14:08 Whatever :P 00:15:19 lemme try Adium 00:15:33 * ehird` disappears now 00:15:37 i hope many fig fucking will ensue 00:16:04 GregorR: nope 00:16:04 Hrm, I'm having trouble connecting to gtalk >_> 00:16:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:16:34 how do i make one 00:17:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:17:31 google talk seems to have an in-browser client 00:18:04 I have a google talk client set up. Where are we connecting? 00:18:34 ok 00:18:36 Oh, there we go, now I'm online. 00:18:40 my google username is gavinwahl 00:19:09 I'm "RodgerTheGreat" 00:19:20 bsmntbombdood, what library should i use for making a python IRC bot? 00:19:28 GreaseMonkey: you shouldn't 00:19:35 whyzat? 00:19:42 because i didn't 00:19:46 GreaseMonkey: use Java. :D 00:20:17 bsmntbombdood, what did you use then? 00:20:32 a C client with Python access? 00:20:38 the socket library? 00:20:47 ok. 00:23:45 what do we do?!? 00:25:04 indeed 00:26:16 I'm so confused. :S 00:26:48 Why not write a bot in an esolang ? 00:27:05 why not write an esolang *for* making bots? 00:27:26 oh i see 00:27:29 the web client can't make calls 00:27:45 fuck 00:28:09 how *do* we make calls? 00:32:09 i'm clueless 00:32:19 GregorR: how do you use jabbin? 00:32:26 bbl 00:33:07 maybe we should just use skype 00:33:09 bsmntbombdood: There's a howto on using Jabbin for google talk on Jabbin's home page. 00:33:26 * GregorR is sure as hell not using Skype >_> 00:33:31 no there's not 00:33:49 actually, that'd rock making a bot in befunge 00:34:08 funge-98 FTW 00:34:41 bsmntbombdood: "Configure for GTalk?" 00:34:56 oops :P 00:35:23 "CAPI"(0"SOCK_STREAM"G"AF_INET"G3"socket"C) 00:36:29 ok cool 00:36:33 haha 64.8 wpm :D 00:36:36 @ me 00:36:39 i'm drunk though 00:36:54 hurry up GregorR pick up 00:36:56 and i get quite self-conscious at typing tests 00:37:15 bsmntbombdood: I'm actually at work right now X-D 00:38:08 so? 00:39:20 why is your name flashing in read? 00:39:22 So I'm in a public setting, and talking loudly would annoy people? 00:39:56 say somthing 00:41:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:41:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:43:36 someone else do it 00:48:18 mind you, robomonkey had its commands coded in brainsecks 00:52:02 bsmntbombdood, how do i set the port number of a socket in python? 00:52:28 uhh...the second item in the address tuple 00:53:15 o 00:53:38 ok. 00:53:43 i'll do some sleeping now -> 00:54:03 next time i should read the top section 01:11:54 I win at obfuscated HTML. 01:12:01 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/ob.html 01:12:06 It's valid. It doesn't have < in it. 01:12:09 Errm. 01:12:14 s// 01:12:23 rof 01:12:28 howis that valid? 01:12:44 SGML null-end-tags. 01:12:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:12:58 1 thing 01:13:00 It doesn't work 01:13:07 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:13:08 my browser sucks 01:13:09 Well, yes. 01:13:19 That's a bug in every browser in existence, not in my HTML. :p 01:14:05 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:16:19 Um ... SGML is a proper superset of HTML ... 01:16:33 Which is to say: Just because it's valid SGML doesn't mean its' valid HTML. 01:17:48 OK ... 01:17:53 so the validator is happy >_O 01:18:03 I think that says more about the validator being el crapolla then anything else :P 01:18:09 In this case, it's also valid HTML, since the HTML specification and document-type definition do not do anything about the SGML *syntax*. 01:18:31 The HTML specs *themselves* explicitly state that my kind of abuse is quite valid (if unrecommended). 01:28:17 What is the smallest brainfuck program which you cannot prove terminates or not? 01:29:17 ,[] 01:29:20 fax: trick question 01:29:31 Why? I didn't intent it to be 01:29:52 fax: i doubt you can always prove that you cannot prove whether it terminates or not 01:29:56 lament: I assume that he means "a human can't prove terminates or not", not a Turing machine. 01:30:16 And the shortest way to pull that off is to use the nondeterminism of ",". ;) 01:30:58 fax: for example, consider a program that consecutively looks at every even integer 01:31:03 fax: and tries to break it into two primes 01:31:08 fax: once it fails, it halts. 01:31:21 ahaha 01:31:23 Very nice :D 01:31:28 fax: does this program halt or not? I have no idea. Can it be proven? I have no idea. 01:31:30 But this will be a large program! 01:32:27 the point remains that we don't know whether it halts or not, but we suspect that eventually it will be proven that it doesn't halt. 01:37:34 lament: Also, he asked what's the smallest program that can be proven that it doesn't halt, not whether any arbitrary program *can* be proven to do so. 01:39:06 :/ 01:39:14 I got interested in program size and stuff 01:39:26 it seems like a bad thing to be interested in :p 01:41:35 Not necessarily. 01:41:39 Brainfuck golf == good. 01:41:44 hehe 01:41:54 I wrote this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/49075#2 01:42:08 but I think I'll try another approach tommorow 01:45:21 the genetic algorithm beats me sometimes though 01:45:27 quite often.. 01:46:34 I want to see other peoples approach to tis 02:00:43 what's brainfuck golf? 02:01:16 bsmntbombdood: it's a challenge to make the smallest version of a program possible 02:01:25 e.g. "Hello World!!!!!1" 02:01:31 I think my challange is meta-golf though :p 02:08:23 oh 02:12:52 I'm back 02:14:35 yay 02:15:50 :) 02:15:57 hooray 02:44:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit). 02:44:47 Forbleborble 02:44:58 Now that I'm at home, somebody help me test if this Google Talk client works :P 02:47:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 02:50:10 adium sucks ass 03:07:29 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 03:18:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:07:10 -!- clog has joined. 06:07:10 -!- clog has joined. 06:15:40 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 06:19:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 06:19:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:41:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("Lost terminal"). 06:42:54 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:54:02 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:45:16 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:57:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:47:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:17:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Connection timed out). 10:19:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:31:02 -!- jix has joined. 12:16:08 -!- Cesque has joined. 12:35:32 -!- Cesque2 has joined. 12:54:35 -!- Cesque has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:55:11 -!- Cesque2 has changed nick to Cesque. 13:08:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:11:13 -!- Garlic has joined. 13:11:17 fax machine 13:11:19 -!- Garlic has left (?). 13:23:00 tax machine 13:23:16 * fax machine 13:23:30 * ehird` machine 13:23:31 wait. 13:23:50 ;D 13:27:18 wow /me looking at earlier logs 13:27:33 that piemonkey bot stored cmds as strings of source code!!! 13:39:27 !bf_text Hello world 13:39:29 Huh? 13:39:33 do it 13:39:38 !bftext blah 13:39:40 !help 13:39:41 Huh? 13:39:43 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 13:39:45 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 13:39:48 !bf_txtgen. 13:39:51 Huh? 13:41:21 where the heck is my blahbot source 13:44:15 -!- blahbot` has joined. 13:45:10 %bf +. 13:45:10 13:45:25 hmm 13:46:13 egobot's txtgen is realllllllly slow 13:47:09 %bf +.++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>-----.++.>.<++++++.++++++.-.>>>++++.<++++.<+++++++++++++++++.>-.+.[-]+. 13:47:15 er 13:47:20 whoops. 13:47:26 %bf +.[-]++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>-----.++.>.<++++++.++++++.-.>>>++++.<++++.<+++++++++++++++++.>-.+.[-]+. 13:47:27 * blahbot` test 13:47:29 yay 13:47:51 %bf >++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>++++[<++++>-]<+.-----------.-.++.>+++++[<-------->-]<+. 13:47:52 ARGFH! 13:47:53 -!- cmeme has quit (Client Quit). 13:48:04 -!- cmeme has joined. 13:48:12 blahbot has a helpful brainfuck syntax-checker too, without running code 13:48:19 %parse +[--<]+]+ 13:48:34 ehm. 13:48:41 * ehird` restarts bot 13:48:43 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:49:33 -!- blahbot` has joined. 13:50:43 %parse +[--<]+]+ 13:50:49 ah, d'og 13:50:51 *d'oh 13:52:23 %quit 13:52:24 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:52:37 -!- blahbot` has joined. 13:53:02 %bf >++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<-.---.+++++++.++++. 13:53:02 !help 13:53:05 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 13:53:07 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 13:53:15 fax: haha yow 13:54:01 now make a program (F) for blahbot`, which will run egobot's !bf with a program (G), where G will send the original program F to blahbot via %bf 13:54:03 infinite bot loop :D 13:54:05 %parse +[--<]+]+ 13:54:05 Unmatched ]. 13:54:08 %parse +[--<]++ 13:54:09 +[--<]++ 13:55:34 %bf >++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.>+++++[<++++++>-]<.>+++[<------>-]<-....>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++[<------>-]<-.>++++[<---->-]<-........>++++[<+++++>-]<-.>++++[<---->-]<-.>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>++++[<-------->-]<-.>++++[<---->-]<-.+++. 13:55:34 !bf >++++[<++++++++>-]<+. 13:55:37 ! 13:55:44 heh 13:55:50 there is not enough msg 13:55:57 heh 13:56:14 yeah, i definately think F is too complex to fit into a message 13:56:17 it would have to quine itself 13:56:56 F's output would have to be: !bf , and G's output would have to be: %bf 13:57:01 that's some crazy delayed quining 13:57:06 :D 13:57:45 ... if you can write it, even if it is over the message limit 13:57:48 i will salute you 14:06:37 there's a 410 character quine in bf 14:07:01 that isn't the point 14:07:04 hmm... double-quining might be a bit harder in brainfuck than normal quining 14:07:05 it isnt actually quining 14:07:13 i'll show an example, wait 14:07:17 ... 14:07:19 err okay 14:08:01 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192280870.html fully explained 14:08:36 i'm not sure how anyone could not have known that was what you were talking about 14:08:51 but anyways, i did. 14:08:59 well. the quine is delayed by one step. 14:09:49 i think you can do that with extra 100 characters... 14:09:59 !bf_txt_Gen 14:10:03 Huh? 14:10:04 !bf_txt_gen !bf 14:10:07 !bf_txtgen 14:10:07 Huh? 14:10:09 java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: n must be positive 14:10:10 actually. 14:10:18 !bf_text_gen !bf 14:10:20 !bf_txtgen Hello world 14:10:22 !help 14:10:23 Huh? 14:10:23 ADSF 14:10:25 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 14:10:27 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 14:10:35 !bf_txtgen !bf 14:11:20 ... 14:11:25 44 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.++++. [332] 14:11:27 !bf >++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.++++. 14:11:27 104 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++><<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------. [767] 14:11:29 !bf 14:11:31 grr 14:11:43 !bf +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.++++. 14:11:47 !bf 14:12:27 oklopol: use %bf instead of !bf 14:12:28 hmm, actually you can probably use the code to produce the actual source code characters to reduce that into some 15 characters 14:12:28 !bf >++++++[<++++++>-]<+.>++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.+.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.+++++.>++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.+.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.>++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<-. 14:12:30 since that's how the loop works 14:12:31 %bf !bf %bf !bf o 14:12:36 augh >:E 14:12:37 that was stupid 14:12:38 look 14:12:45 it's not as simple as "!bf QUINE" 14:12:54 ehird`: 1. you have to do both 2. i'm an idiot, but i'm not *that* stupid. 14:13:06 really, you think i haven't made quine loops? 14:13:16 i have. 14:13:19 (PROGRAM F:) write out "!bf (PROGRAM G)" 14:13:19 (PROGRAM G:) write out "%bf (PROGRAM F)" 14:13:23 it's the extra !bf and %bf 14:13:26 that makes it tricky 14:13:34 please stop that 14:13:55 i was just demonstrating how little code you need to produce !bf and %bf. 14:14:11 right 14:14:15 but you have to incorporate that in the quine 14:14:40 yes, but it is not considerably harder than just writing a quine. 14:15:30 it is a bit harder, but the shortest quine i found is 410 characters, there's still almost 100 characters to use. 14:15:46 ok, show me ;) 14:15:52 except, er, do it in #esoteric-blah 14:15:56 %bf >++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.+++++++++++.....................................+++.---.............................................................+++.---....+++.>++++[<++++>-]<.>+++[<------>-]<-.......>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++[<------>-]<-.---------------..........>++++[<++++>-]<+.>++++[<---->-]<-.>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>++++[<-------->-]<-.--------------.---.+++. 14:15:56 !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++.>+++++++[<---------->-]<.+. 14:15:59 %bf ! 14:16:02 lol like i could ever make a brainfuck quine ;) 14:16:10 fax: you're approaching it fsat 14:16:22 you just need to make blahbot's output be a program that prints the original input, heh. 14:16:24 so... the hard part. 14:16:27 that was not my point, my point was you can do it in 512 characters, if you can do it at all :) 14:16:27 hehe 14:16:41 oklopol: I find that very hard to beleive 14:16:45 how do you make egobot join a channel 14:16:47 but hey 14:17:04 only 3^512 possibilities! 14:17:12 let's enumerate them all 14:17:18 3? 14:17:20 hmm why? 14:17:23 3 bits 14:17:34 that's 8^512 14:17:42 no, it's 3, iirc 14:17:50 ... 14:17:58 8 options for each, 512 characters. 14:18:01 8^512 14:18:02 eek 14:18:04 oh 14:18:05 yes 14:18:06 :/ 14:18:14 I keep making mistakes like that today 14:18:23 (2^3)^512 of course 14:18:34 so yeah 14:18:39 8^512 is far too many to check 14:18:47 so is 3^512 :P 14:18:52 lol 14:18:53 :P 14:19:19 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:19:42 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:19:59 1.05^512 might be mappable, if you'd just need a trivial checking operation, however, the checking operator would need to be an oracle ;) 14:20:09 heh 14:20:15 so i don't think brute force is the way in this case 14:20:25 :O 14:20:27 RLY???!1212 14:20:45 yeah, i'm fairly sure 14:21:24 omfgbbq 15:01:06 * SimonRC thinks that the Eureka master password itsn't very secure 15:01:30 I just found out where the number came from 15:01:35 8675309 15:01:37 sigh 15:02:09 aha, here it is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1060051/trivia 15:02:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:05:37 -!- Cesque has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:04:25 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:04:35 -!- jix has joined. 16:26:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:45:27 SimonRC: that's really pretty sad 17:46:04 hm? 17:46:17 I can help memorising passwords sometimes 17:46:23 *can't 17:46:29 NSF01 17:46:35 smashthestate 17:46:40 I only put it into Google to see if anyone was discussing it 17:46:44 will ALWAYS be burned into my memory 17:46:45 RodgerTheGreat: ??? 17:47:01 Deus Ex was the greatest game I've ever played 17:49:08 the above is a username/password combo used in the first level 17:49:47 I even remember some of the passwords from later in the game, which makes replays amusing to watch 17:50:19 "how the FUCK did you know the security system's pass was 'reindeerflotilla'?" 19:14:04 http://music.machinaesupremacy.com/machinae_supremacy-sidology_3-apex_ultima.ogg <- frickin' awesome 19:24:09 hh 19:26:02 ? 19:30:51 I was going "heh" at your deu sex anecdote 19:30:55 *deus ex 19:31:14 deu sex? 19:31:21 freu dianslip? 19:31:37 freudian's lip? 19:31:45 :-) 19:42:19 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Excess Flood). 19:45:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:55:25 -!- ihope has joined. 19:55:38 -!- ihope has left (?). 19:56:25 -!- ihope has joined. 20:02:24 * SimonRC makes dinner 20:02:32 make me some too 20:05:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:06:11 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:15:27 bsmntbombdood: you'll have to give him your address so he can ship it to you. 20:15:49 might be cold by the time it gets here :/ 20:16:43 ship it by icbm. guaranteed hot! 20:24:17 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:26:36 Store it in a vacuum flask! 20:33:02 store it in a vacuum 20:42:21 Or that, yes. 20:42:35 Might be a little dried out upon arrival, though. 20:43:14 (Why doesn't the lid of a vacuum flask also contain a vacuum?) 20:46:53 store it in a black hole 20:46:58 only problem: getting it out again 20:47:06 ihope: too hard probably 20:47:19 mehthinks i'll ahve some hot chocolate 20:47:24 it's all rainy and dark today 20:47:51 Pff, it's easy to get stuff out of a black hole. 20:47:55 The problem is turning it back into food. 20:48:08 you've got something out of a black hole? 20:48:14 physicists want to see you 20:48:35 What, Hawking radiation's been disproven? 20:48:41 (Or disproved, if you want to go that route.) 20:58:18 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:04:40 -!- fax has quit. 21:14:08 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 21:46:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 21:58:42 -!- oklopl has joined. 21:58:54 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:45:28 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 22:55:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:00:34 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:10:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:14:05 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:38:46 -!- oklopl has quit (Connection timed out). 23:43:45 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 23:53:19 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:59:44 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:59:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 2007-10-14: 00:10:11 -!- Corun has joined. 00:10:52 ++++++++++++++[->++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++><<<<<<]>>++.>+++.>>-----.<<<<++++.>>.>>---.<<.>++.>+++.<---.-.<.<<+. 00:11:13 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:11:26 Corun: hello yourself 00:12:02 I just finished my String -> Brainfuck converter 00:12:09 In case you couldn't tell :-) 00:12:23 (Not written in Brainfuck, unfortunately, ooooh no...) 00:12:24 I assume the above is your output? looks pretty decent 00:12:31 Thank you :-) 00:12:41 !bf ++++++++++++++[->++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++><<<<<<]>>++.>+++.>>-----.<<<<++++.>>.>>---.<<.>++.>+++.<---.-.<.<<+. 00:12:45 Hey everyone! 00:13:44 Heh, cool. 00:15:00 What happens if you feed EgoBot some infinitely printing bf? 00:15:08 it runs 00:15:08 what did you write your converter in? 00:15:08 forever 00:15:10 until you kill it 00:15:12 it sends it to p 00:15:13 m 00:15:21 Haskell 00:15:49 what method did you use? 00:15:55 (I just started my uni course, they're teaching us haskell so I'm practicing it) 00:16:07 Errrr, hard to explain :-) 00:16:36 I generate a bunch of close values to the chars in the first 5-10 cells 00:16:53 Then I move to the cell with the closest value and add or subtract until it's right, then I print it 00:17:09 yeah, that's what the BF looks like 00:18:03 you can make that code 1 shorter 00:18:21 replace the 15 +'s with +++[>+++++<-]> 00:18:35 And the "><" can disappear too 00:18:48 oh, yeah 00:18:49 Corun: put this text in: "The quick brown fox - a delicacy in some countries - will be jumping over the lazy dog just in time for the annual lazy-dog jumping contest of 2007. In other news, flooble gabby ziggy." 00:18:53 what does it show? :D 00:19:06 that's a good idea though 00:19:37 !bf ++++++++[->++++>++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++><<<<<<<<]>>>++++++++++++.>>.---.<<<<.>>>>>+.>---.<<++++.<+++.>++.<<<<.>>>-.>>+.---.>++.<-.<<<<<.>>>++++.>>+.>+.<<<<<<.>---.<.>>>-----.<<<.>>>+++.+.>+.---.<--.--.++.>>>+.<<<<<<.>>>>.>-.<<<<<.>>>>>+++++.----.--.<<++.<<<.>>>--.>>++.>----.<-.>-.--.<<.<++.>>>+.<<<<<<.>.<.>>>>>>++++.<<.>--..<<<<<.>>>---.+++.<<<.>>>>+.>>--.<+.+++.<-.>--.<<++.<<<.>>>>> 00:19:37 +.>+.<<<--.>>+++.<<<<<.>>>>>++.<-.<.<<<.>>>>++++.<----.>>>++++.-.<<<<<<.>>>+++.>+++.<+++.<<<.>>>+++.>>+.--.+.<<<<<.>>>-.>-.<<<<.>>>>>.<<.>-.<----.<<<.>>>+.>++.>--.<<<<<.>>>>>++.<<++.---.<<<.>>>----.>-..>+.<<.>--.<<<<.>>>>.<.>>>+.-.<<<<<.>>+++.>+++.<+++.<<<.>>>+++.>>.<--.+++.<-.>--.<--.<<<.>>>----.>+.-.>-.<<++.>>-.+.<<<<<.>>>>+.<+.<<<.>+++++.--..+++++++.---------.<.>>-----------.>>-.<<<<.>>>>+.>.<<++.---.>>--.<<<<<.>>>>-.<.>>>--.<+.<<<<-- 00:19:37 .<.>>>+.>--.+++..<----.>---.<+++.<<<.>>>++.------.+..>>>++.<<<<<<.>>>>>>+.<<---.--..>>-.<<<<<++. 00:19:39 The quick brown fox - a delicacy in some countries - will be jumping 00:19:46 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 00:19:46 Aww, crap. 00:19:56 Too much for irc :-) 00:20:03 heh 00:20:07 that's really short for that text 00:20:13 i haven't seen output that small for text that big 00:20:44 well done :-) 00:20:48 I've been thinking on the problem all afternoon, a few friends and I were having a contest, ya see :-) 00:21:03 how do you decide the number of cells to use, and their initial values? 00:21:03 really? fax made a contest for that yesterday. 00:21:16 Er, yeah. He's one of the friends 00:21:16 how coincidential! 00:21:18 oh 00:21:19 Corun: what a coincidence, fax just started a contest like that 00:21:19 hahaha 00:21:22 :-) 00:21:23 oh heh 00:23:08 Erm, it doesn't decide how many, it just uses a cell for each multiple of the main number that is needed 00:23:25 huh? 00:23:37 Ok... 00:23:54 The program find a number, (I call it the "factor") 00:24:22 multiples of this number are used to fill the cells 00:24:34 how does it find the number 00:26:09 For the number 8 to 20 it finds the sum of the mods each character with the number. Lowest sum is generally the best factor 00:26:24 cool 00:26:57 I have to start at 8 or there abouts because, obviously, 2, 3 etc will have a much lower score every time 00:27:18 Interesting. . . Clever hack. 00:28:12 I got the idea for the method by looking at the "Hello World!" on wikipedia 00:28:30 I just had to try and generate something similar programatically 00:28:31 * pikhq may well have to figure out a way to adapt that algorithm into PEBBLE 00:29:24 How does it do it at the moment? 00:29:41 bruteforce iirc 00:29:45 ++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++. 00:29:46 i still don't get it but whatever 00:29:47 Just adding and subtracting to a single cell via two-cell versions of the constants. 00:30:05 bsmntbombdood: maybe pikhq can explain :P 00:30:10 It does somewhat decently because it *wraps*, but it's not exactly optimal. 00:30:19 Hmm 00:30:54 Does it use the constants from http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants ? :-) 00:30:58 Yes. 00:31:01 The wrapping ones. 00:31:07 Cool 00:32:38 * GregorR needs to invent a new MISC that doesn't require/allow self-modifying code, so it can actually be compiled in a pseudo-optimal way. 00:33:39 GregorR: no! 00:33:51 GregorR: self-modifying code is part of what makes it so cool 00:34:03 It is, but it also makes it significantly less practical. 00:34:10 I'd like to imagine something that could be implemented in a JIT. 00:34:20 GregorR: why not just run it in a simple VM? It'd be nearly as fast as compiled, anyway 00:34:33 RodgerTheGreat: I'm already doing that :P 00:34:43 I'm designing a MISC cpu 00:34:49 That's hot. 00:34:55 If you do that, I won't need my new MISC :P 00:35:35 right now, I'm building it in a logic simulator, but when I get it working, I'll redo it in VERILOG, and then you can flash it to an FPGA for hours of fun 00:37:09 pff 00:37:11 manually make it 00:37:14 with transisitors 00:37:17 far more fun 00:37:26 far slower clockspeed, too 00:37:37 who cares 00:37:39 it's esoteric MISC 00:37:41 no, with relays 00:37:44 Transistors? Pah! You need to use a room full of people to do it! 00:37:44 far far more fun 00:37:48 bsmntbombdood: no :p 00:37:54 transisitors are... more practical 00:38:01 And quieter 00:38:18 And tastier. 00:38:23 I'm no computer engineer. VERILOG is as close to hardware as I go for anything more complex than an adder. 00:38:38 VERILOG is way, WAY closer than I ever go. 00:38:44 :D 00:40:28 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:44:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:45:28 Hi all 00:45:41 It's been a while since I worked on PSOX--or has it? 00:45:50 Maybe I left a suprise in the PSOX.txt file.. 00:51:33 * RodgerTheGreat is slightly interested 00:58:04 A MISC that isn't self-modifying? 00:58:15 Like URISC and subleq? 00:58:35 ihope: subleq is self-modifying 00:59:03 It is? 00:59:19 yep 00:59:22 Oh. URISC, then? 00:59:27 self-modifying is the only way to do pointers 01:11:47 VERILOG, eh? 01:13:34 yeah 01:13:45 I know a little bit, and it's not too terrible to learn 01:14:19 I'm guessing that in theory, it's rather fast. 01:15:21 yeah, because when you flash it onto an FPGA you can run the "virtual chip" at ~200mhz with good hardware 01:15:35 cheaper FPGAs are slower, though 01:16:21 Does the parallelness of an FPGA beat the clock speed of a conventional processor... often? 01:16:35 depends 01:17:01 an FPGA could probably hold several MISC cores at once, too 01:21:20 fpgas are cool 01:22:13 I'm definitely going to have to find a cheap FPGA development platform once I finish learning VERILOG 02:51:51 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:03:25 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:20:45 omg i was down 3.5 hours :| 03:21:05 i cried the whole time 03:21:07 was so lonely 03:24:23 It's ok, man- you're back with friends. <:) 03:27:09 your internets was down? 03:27:19 yes 03:27:39 :( 03:27:43 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p452633243.txt <<< i actually made this work 03:28:10 when the internet is down, i get depressed... but god i'm productibe 03:28:12 *productive 03:29:04 (you can't see from that that i was productive, but i did other things too!) 03:29:27 also, my hair is falling out 03:29:34 and i have to go to sleep i think 03:29:52 or read my book 03:31:09 and another random sentence. 03:31:34 now leaving again after waiting for 3.5 hours to get back online. 03:31:37 clever? yes. 03:31:39 -> 03:32:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:44:43 -!- ihope has quit ("Lost terminal"). 03:46:23 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 03:49:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 03:49:30 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:00:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:01:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:05:15 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:06:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:06:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit). 04:10:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:11:36 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1192331472-Fence.gif <- and for a foreground... 04:11:43 whoops, wrong window 04:12:01 (this is a set of images I'm working on for a parallax scroller demo) 04:14:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Client Quit). 04:15:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:20:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("Lost terminal"). 04:21:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:07:09 -!- Arrogant has joined. 05:40:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("Lost terminal"). 05:40:35 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 05:40:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:01:55 -!- tokigun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:16:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("Lost terminal"). 06:18:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:49:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:00:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:08:45 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 07:32:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("movie, cya"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:21:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:59:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:59:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 09:16:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:15:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:26:05 -!- jix has joined. 10:30:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 10:33:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:53:17 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:57:43 -!- dak__ has joined. 12:16:45 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:50:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:50:54 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:54:29 1++/÷!⍳30 12:54:43 * sebbu2 discover APL 12:54:46 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:55:15 does Unicode support APL 12:57:05 -!- Corun has joined. 12:59:10 puzzlet_: yes 13:26:30 -!- ibd_cpp has joined. 13:42:27 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 14:09:42 -!- puzzlet_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 14:26:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:33:24 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:45:03 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:57:30 -!- dak__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:59:43 hi 15:00:05 how would you create a BF program that prints out a given string? 15:00:27 ,[.,] 15:00:52 how would you create a C program that created a BF program that prints out a given string given to the C program? 15:01:08 by entering fax's competition 15:01:20 I have, I'm just looking what others might do 15:01:35 looking for ideas 15:03:25 so what are your ideas? 15:03:27 :) 15:05:29 heh 15:05:34 i dunno 15:05:47 i liked whoever-it-was's idea yesterday 15:05:53 which one? 15:06:00 it made a few cells close to the chars 15:06:05 and then just adjusted them as needed for each char output 15:06:35 well my entry works like that, but it might be a common idea 15:06:50 its what the person who came in yesterday did 15:07:37 my "Hello World!": 15:07:38 ++++++++++[>+++>+++++++>++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.<<<++.>>+++++++.>.+++.------.--------.<<<+. 15:08:24 very similar 15:08:37 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 15:09:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:35:52 -!- tokigun has joined. 16:04:28 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:04:38 -!- jix has joined. 16:52:26 -!- Corun has joined. 16:59:49 -!- ibd_cpp has left (?). 17:25:03 This is what programming should be: http://obfuscated.co.uk/files/realProgramming.png 17:25:25 what does that output?! :P 17:25:55 (Do i get points if my first reaction was: "UNO skin.") 17:25:59 http://obfuscated.co.uk/files/bfrealprog.txt outputs http://fax.twilightcoders.net/textfiles/TheStoryofMelARealProgrammer.txt 17:26:44 No points. Sorry. :-P 17:27:14 but... you do use UNO, right? :P 17:27:18 redeem my geekity! 17:27:40 Yes es 17:27:43 Ofcourse I do 18:59:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:00:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:10:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:15:59 !bf +++++++[->+++++++<]>.++..++++. 19:16:03 1337 19:16:42 !bf ++++++++[->+++++>++++++++>++++>+++++++++++<<<<]>>+++++.>+.--..<<++.-. 19:16:44 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:16:45 E!*) 19:16:48 what is the output for "aaabbbcccbbb"? 19:17:10 !bf ++++++++[->++++++++++++<]>+...+...+...-... 19:17:13 aaabbbcccbbb 19:17:28 !bf +++++++++++[->++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++<<<]>+++.<..>>.+++++. 19:17:41 realloc: Cannot allocate memory 19:17:43 !bf +++++++++++[->++++>+++++++>++++++++>++++++++<<<]>+++.<..>>.+++++. 19:17:44 Corun: very good 19:17:47 what about - 19:17:50 !bf +++++++++++[->++++>+++++++>++++++++>++++++++<<<<]>+++.<..>>.+++++. 19:17:51 whoops 19:17:53 / 19:17:55 "xxxaaammmaaa" 19:17:57 realloc: Cannot allocate memory 19:18:14 !bf ++++++++++++[->++++++++++>++++++++<<]>...>+...<-----------...>... 19:18:17 xxxaaammmaaa 19:18:20 It's better than it was 19:18:25 yeah 19:18:27 could be optimized though 19:18:32 ----------- 19:18:36 bf is not 8bit by default 19:18:42 !help 19:18:45 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 19:18:47 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 19:19:01 oerjan: who are you talking to? 19:19:39 It now generates exactly the same as what's on the wikipedia bf page for the "Hello World!\n" example. 19:19:54 oklopol: you 19:20:03 your stuff doesn't work because you need !bf8 19:20:35 actually now i am not sure 19:20:54 but if your stuff depends on wrapping on 256 you need that 19:21:46 on second thought you had mismatched ><'s :) 19:22:23 which seems more likely to fill memory 19:22:53 my stuff worked perfectly, though 19:23:00 !bf +[>++] 19:23:07 realloc: Cannot allocate memory 19:23:11 mwaha 19:23:31 my mistake was to leave one < out, but that was a typo 19:24:18 !bf ++++++++[->++++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<]>++.>+++++++.--.>>++++++.----.<.. 19:24:21 B^Z88 19:25:09 What's that supposed to do oklopol? 19:26:51 didn't EgoBot already evaluate it :) 19:27:52 Yeah, but I thoguht B^Z88 was probably not what it was supposed to print 19:27:54 hmm, note to self: do not put your markov chain on a channel with bots with *no* markov chain in their speech randomization 19:28:03 *markov chain bot 19:28:15 it became an idiot :< 19:28:19 haha 19:28:21 put it in here 19:28:23 -> even worse 19:28:31 you thought what i wanted you to believe, Corun 19:28:42 !bf +++++++++++[->++++++>++++++++>+++++<<<]>.>++++++.----.>+.. 19:28:45 B^Z88 19:28:46 That's shorter :-P 19:28:52 hmm, i guess i could, for a second or two 19:29:05 wipe its memory 19:29:06 obviously 19:29:11 i couldn't test it actually, because i just joined on that one channel ;;) 19:29:35 it has no permanent memory currenly, i just wanted to make a markov chain bot, since i never made one 19:29:44 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:29:44 put it in here :) 19:29:45 Corun: you are missing an escape character 19:30:03 Eh? 19:30:04 or something like that 19:30:25 there was a control character in oklopol's version, which you missed 19:30:35 ctrl-] 19:30:39 -!- zmnszctzs has joined. 19:30:46 version 19:30:50 version 19:30:51 i'm not even sure if that works 19:30:55 version 19:30:57 haha, i see :P 19:31:00 -!- zmnszctzs has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:31:16 i have no idea what just happened, but it looked floodish ;) 19:31:24 put it back in 19:31:26 we'll train it quick enough 19:31:27 :P 19:31:33 -!- zmnszctzs has joined. 19:31:37 hello, zmnszctzs 19:31:38 hmm, well, that's assuming it works 19:31:50 zmnszctzs: do i address you a certain way or do you listen to any message? 19:31:51 i have no idea whether it does 19:31:55 $$ 19:31:56 hello zmnszctzs 19:31:59 should print something 19:32:00 heh 19:32:01 heh 19:32:01 zmnszctzs 19:32:05 hahaha 19:32:05 ... 19:32:13 zmnszctzs: Flowers are lovely. 19:32:14 $$ 19:32:15 hello zmnszctzs do you listen to any message 19:32:15 Hey zmnszctzs 19:32:23 pretty self-centered, that bot :D 19:32:24 -!- sp3tt has joined. 19:32:25 $$ 19:32:26 zmnszctzs 19:32:29 hahaha 19:32:31 zmnszctzs 19:32:36 oklopol: 19:32:37 that was a 15 min python project, i did punctuation removing rather badly 19:32:38 it's floody, so 19:32:42 zmnszctzs flowers are lovely 19:32:43 restart it and put it in #esoteric-blah 19:32:50 -!- zmnszctzs has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:32:53 i shall 19:32:58 hmm, seems i'm not there 19:33:00 i thought i was 19:38:00 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:39:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:45:09 -!- ST47 has joined. 19:45:20 * ST47 advises ehird` that he is most flowery 19:45:22 -!- ST47 has left (?). 19:50:51 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 20:13:16 (8:22:47 PM) zmnszctzs: perhaps he will end up sentences 20:13:16 (8:22:57 PM) zmnszctzs: ok know grammar hes the earth and im lazy guy 20:13:19 that actually made some sense 20:13:20 crazy 20:14:04 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 20:18:33 it said a pretty coherent thing in finnish earlier, but i lost it in the logs :P 20:18:49 i don't feel like reading 5000 lines of bot flood 20:20:12 hakkapelitt! 20:20:52 hakkapeliitta 20:20:59 (8:30:14 PM) zmnszctzs: one is three is six is ten 20:21:03 (8:30:39 PM) zmnszctzs: one plus seven is three 20:21:04 hakkaa pelitt = hit without a game 20:21:10 :) 20:21:17 zmnszctzs sucks at maths 20:21:20 that's one clever bot... 20:21:26 no ? 20:21:47 (8:31:36 PM) zmnszctzs: one is nine 20:21:55 i think that comes from "hakkaa plle" 20:22:08 which is like "beat over" or something 20:22:20 but i think the noun is "hakkapeliitta" 20:22:23 (8:32:10 PM) zmnszctzs: like fuzzy things and arithmetic although am zmnszctzs 20:22:27 having no idea what that means, hard to be sure ;) 20:22:34 hehe :D 20:22:44 that was actually coherent, almost 20:22:49 (8:32:29 PM) zmnszctzs: like fuzzy things 20:22:53 i thought it was a tire trademark/company 20:22:54 he really, really likes fuzzy things 20:24:12 wow, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta 20:24:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:24:52 oh, i did know what that meant i guess 20:25:10 O Lord, deliver us from the terrible army of the Haccapelites 20:25:14 :D 20:25:44 (8:35:26 PM) zmnszctzs: hello how are you like fuzzy things and then sing out loud 20:34:01 hey, it's quite lucid 20:34:04 it's asking basic questions 20:41:00 (22:40:24) (zmnszctzs) it filters everything except characters 20:41:01 (22:40:28) (zmnszctzs) also many times theres been a lucky guess 20:41:22 (22:40:08) (zmnszctzs) and eof is considered a conversation << was what i tried to paste... 20:51:02 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:56:01 (9:05:40 PM) zmnszctzs: enough to be word 20:56:02 (9:05:41 PM) zmnszctzs: hello nostrils and when to floop haggis you are in my code 20:56:10 (::05:48 PM) zmnszctzs: if you sell your soul for a stab at the fragment thing 20:56:14 (9:05:51 PM) zmnszctzs: but it filters everything except characters 20:57:12 i wonder if that already beats me in chess 20:57:16 heh 20:57:39 a1 to d7 hello nostrils haggis 20:58:52 sadly, you don't need much more to beat me 20:59:09 (9:07:53 PM) zmnszctzs: fucking 20:59:10 (9:08:17 PM) zmnszctzs: hello 20:59:10 (9:08:44 PM) zmnszctzs: doesnt make nostrils and inside themselves of tea 20:59:25 wow 20:59:27 it's a philosopher 20:59:28 (9:09:13 PM) zmnszctzs: i dont think it runs out of possibilities it has a mapping to train maybe you see the fragments will need to perfect that is the sentence 21:00:45 i see it has a great understanding of it's own inner workings. 21:11:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 21:12:14 (9:21:56 PM) zmnszctzs: wise men have no sorry 21:12:20 this bot is lucid 21:19:46 (zmnszctzs) what chains to generate multiple fragments can probably just do any coffee 21:19:48 my favorite 22:06:40 oklopol: ping into #esoteric-blah 22:21:06 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:26:27 (10:36:15 PM) zmnszctzs: zmnszctzs make every sublist of coffee 22:26:41 (10:36:31 PM) zmnszctzs: ok oklopol restart it now or what chains 22:28:59 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:30:08 hahaha(10:39:38 PM) zmnszctzs: or some weird cheap stuff 22:30:08 (10:39:57 PM) zmnszctzs: to floop haggis 22:31:54 (10:41:38 PM) zmnszctzs: hmm i dont wanna make nostrils 22:47:47 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:05:22 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:09:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:45:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:45:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 2007-10-15: 00:38:33 * SimonRC goes to bed 00:51:33 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 00:56:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("leaving"). 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peer)). 03:17:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 03:25:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 03:54:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:54:19 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 03:54:26 -!- ttm has joined. 04:02:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:06:54 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:31:02 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:45:35 -!- Atalanta has joined. 05:45:36 hi 05:45:38 http://rafb.net/p/3bSZ7t31.html =D 05:46:39 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 05:56:03 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:57:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:58:25 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:00:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:07:41 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 06:30:14 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 07:45:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:38:52 -!- Corun has joined. 09:44:17 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:47:35 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:46:34 -!- Nucleo_ has joined. 11:02:53 -!- Nucleo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:04:32 -!- Nucleo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:28:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:37:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:48:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:51:41 -!- jix has joined. 14:55:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:14:29 Atalanta: Isee a bug 15:14:45 characters aren't supposed to be output with a newline each time 15:14:57 yeah i fixed that and something else but didnt upload 15:15:02 but thanks for looking =D 15:15:32 and what is this if (var[ptr]) == '\\n') var[ptr] = 0; 15:21:03 i was trying to get rid of the extra \10 thats on the end of each line press, but allow enter (\10) to be pressed by itself and count as \0 15:21:12 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:22:38 I think the extra NL is supposed to be there 15:23:23 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 16:15:09 does there happen to be a 2d string rewriting language? 16:15:42 i made one just now, it seems 16:15:55 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:18:30 show m 16:19:17 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p144462122.txt 16:19:30 and what is it? 16:19:35 run that and you'll see a turtle moving across the screen :P 16:19:50 in what compiler/interpreter 16:20:11 you have a list of substitutions, and a 2d character map 16:20:18 substitutions are done randomly to the map 16:20:22 python 16:24:18 those rules overlap 16:24:21 what happens then 16:24:37 random rule is always picked 16:24:40 just like in thue 16:24:48 well, not random, unspecified 16:25:14 actually, i think i'll specify it'll always be as random as possible,, whatever that means :P 16:25:22 *-, 16:25:47 the point of that was to demonstrate the random movement 16:27:40 someone who has any thue intuition, wanna tell me if that's easier of harder to program? 16:27:58 thue allows the "from" string to be of different length than "to" 16:28:14 i couldn't do that, or the result would no longer have been ascii-printable 16:28:49 since anything that changes size, but does not use the whole width/height of the map destroys the rectangle, of course 16:29:06 so there's no actual trivial thue isomorphism 16:29:21 although i'm fairly sure thue is tc without that feature. 16:29:30 hard to say, never made anything in it... 16:31:40 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p626434225.txt PLACE YOUR BETS NOW! 16:37:35 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:39:21 oklopol: heh 16:40:02 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p631111521.txt this looks so great with the new version http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p316314631.txt where you can make the delay smaller 16:40:18 i'm do gonna make a circular racetrack! 16:40:39 ...quite pathetic testing tbh :P 16:40:42 *i'm so 16:44:31 what is this thing called? 16:52:54 and I lack Tkinter 16:53:13 this language? hmm, i have no idea :| 16:53:20 oh my god this is gonna be great xD 16:53:33 get Tkinter, and you shall soon see my unbelivably cool race track :P 16:54:06 (and no, it's not gonna be great, but OMG RACETRACK) 16:54:47 People actually /use/ Tkinter? 16:54:59 i do 16:55:09 i don't know anything else 16:55:18 I thought it was included as a cruel joke to trap new Pythoners. 16:55:27 hehe, it's pretty buggy :) 16:55:48 but better have a few bugs than having to download libraries 16:55:50 It's also Tk. Even if it was bug-free, it would still be Tk. 16:56:16 Like gets, the man page should say "Never use Tkinter." under BUGS. 16:56:33 actually crashed just now, i almost lost my racetrack :P 17:05:03 hmm, got pretty slow after once i made the whole track complete :< 17:05:15 i guess i need to do some optimization to see them squrry merrily again 17:06:39 -!- Atalanta has quit ("im jus kiddin, i didnt really quit."). 17:08:55 wow second round already! 17:09:00 "round" 17:26:40 I actually said "What the fuck?!" to today's DailyWTF (the division one) 17:26:43 wow 17:28:25 haha, i actually realized my language is trivially *not* tc 17:28:33 in fact so trivially i'm pretty much lolling at myself :) 17:29:20 you'd think after assessing the universality of about 100 languages, you'd start noticing the trivial fact that a language does not have infinitely extendable memory... 17:31:28 Eh, that's a minor fault. 17:32:02 SimonRC: I'm not positive, but I don't think that division function is even going to come out with the correct result ... /ever/ ... 17:33:01 yup 17:33:11 Yeah, it turns 2/1 into 13/11 >_> 17:33:19 Erm, 13/12 rather 17:33:23 such a WTF 17:33:35 it r brillant 17:33:56 I think it is based on the principle that (a+c)/(b+c)=a/b 17:34:00 wanna suggest me a way to extend that? 17:34:34 SimonRC: Right ... now if only that was true ... 17:35:01 -!- Corun has joined. 17:38:28 hey, i have an idea, what if the rightmost character would be automatically repeated infinitely to the right, the leftmost to the left, etc.? 17:38:37 great idea, oklopol 17:38:44 thank me 17:38:49 i'm welcome 17:50:17 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 17:51:22 GregorR: :-) 18:02:57 making game of life happen is a bit harder than i assumed... i didn't realize i need a separate case for each possible combination of neighbors xD 18:06:31 okay, this is impossible :P 18:08:35 -!- Corun has joined. 18:13:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:31:05 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 18:32:32 hi everyone 18:33:43 hallo 18:33:58 'sup, oerjan? 18:34:14 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to When She Cries by Andy McKee from Art Of Motion 18:34:19 this CD is fantastic 18:35:17 not much, just logged on 18 mins before you 18:38:22 * oklopol wonders if he should've calculated the number of different patterns in gol before starting to implement them manually as needed... 18:38:55 it's more than in normal gol, since i need to take into account the direction my pointer is moving, and the fact i need to delay last steps... 18:39:02 prolly exactly twice more... 18:39:17 * oerjan guesses that gol has a googol different patterns 18:39:17 too tired to calculate, i'll continue hacking them in manually -> 18:39:31 game of life, though :P 18:40:01 * oerjan calls the acronym police 18:47:54 noooo this is my third offence :< 18:49:44 lol 18:52:00 you may have your license revoked then, and have to write everything in full 18:53:26 this will soon be the longest program i've ever written manually. 18:53:40 this language is so great... 18:54:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:56:59 oklopol: how long are we talking? 18:57:42 SUPA LONG 18:57:51 /logreads 18:58:12 since it is manually, i guess it's not quite a googol lines 19:05:00 well, it's not really that long now that i look at it 19:05:00 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p432433464.txt 19:05:13 it's just kinda tedious :P 19:05:24 it now actually goes one cycle! 19:06:17 the next round will probably have nothing in common with the first... i have to make that automatic somehow... 19:06:34 it's just on some level i kinda like doing that manually 19:06:54 I like the radiator-looking part at the end. Very pretty. 19:07:05 hehe, that's the board :P 19:07:12 yeah, I noticed the glider 19:08:00 that was the only way i could think of to escape the randomness of the mutations 19:09:02 i was first thinking i'd make it so that it can evolve randomly, but it kinda keeps track of what has been modified on the round and moves according to that... but i think i'd still have the problem of having to make every single combination manually... 19:09:22 gotta continue, i'll make that fucker glide if it kills me 19:09:53 lol 19:10:27 hmm 19:10:37 you noticed "the glider", there are two gliders :) 19:10:47 one gol glider, and one tode glider 19:10:55 v is the tode glider 19:11:00 tode being the name of the language 19:12:08 try running that, it's pretty cool :P 19:12:10 maybe 19:12:12 or not 19:21:03 hmm, i think there are a few thousand possibilities 19:21:14 so i might actually get this ready during my lifetime 19:22:51 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:23:01 -!- jix has joined. 19:33:52 actually... might be a million instead of a thousand... oh well 19:36:02 hmm, 512 for the actual possibilities, 1024 because there are 2 directions, also 4 of the 9 also store their last value, thus the temporary values ":", ";", "," and "O", so... 1024*2^4=16384 19:36:26 so... have a nice rest of your life, everyone, you won't be seeing me for a while! 19:37:01 not until you invent code generation? 19:38:43 yeah, well actually i already know the exact algo for that, done that for so long i find it pretty trivial now... i guess it would've been trivial from the start, but i'm verrry tired 19:38:51 was gonna go to sleep about 4 hours ago 19:39:26 i think i'll make the glider work manually, then make the 100% correct gol with code generation 19:39:33 * oerjan is strangely sleepy himself 19:40:36 what's even stranger, i never even saw the envelope 19:42:50 * oerjan assumes that wasn't meant to make sense 19:50:27 -!- fax has joined. 19:54:18 yeah, you are the name that clarifies my instincts 19:56:10 * oerjan is strangely too sleepy to make nonsense, too 19:58:21 MWAHAHAHA SOON MY CREATION IS COMPLETE 19:58:37 (sensical again.) 20:00:28 although just barely 20:10:36 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:11:01 xD 20:11:26 thought i'd finished it, but hey, once the glider has moved the whole 4 steps, it's in a different place, and every move is completely different :) 20:13:35 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p454225263.txt i feel i've really accomplished something here 20:14:24 it's pretty neat until it jams at the forth cycle ;) 20:22:41 hm 20:22:53 it's certainly impressive 20:22:57 does the solution scale? 20:23:27 did you make the game of life in wireworld? 20:23:33 (what is this?) 20:23:48 this isn't wireworld 20:24:22 and you could certainly build a wireworld game of life using the logic gates designed for the wireworld computer 20:27:52 RodgerTheGreat: yes, but it does not work for anything except the first 4 cycles of that glider, and even then only if it's going the right direction ;) 20:28:02 but it's scalable all right 20:28:16 you should be able to make a greater radiator and... watch the first 4 steps in that 20:28:22 but you could have multiple gliders 20:29:04 there's no optimization, so even though there's just one tode glider there, everything is matched everywhere each cycle 20:29:14 so the speed will drop unbelievably fast 20:29:46 when i've generated the code, i will probably have to optimize immensely, or it'll never evolve even one step :) 20:30:37 hmm, i've seen a wireworld gol i think 20:31:24 it is prolly harder to do in wireworld, but may require a bit less work ;) 20:31:35 if you insist on doing that manually 20:31:50 (which i'm not doing after i realized it's actually gonna be over 50000 lines...) 20:35:21 in case i'm correct, and this is the pseudo code for generating the possibilities, i'm gonna explode a bit 20:35:21 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p145514635.txt 20:46:11 -!- fax has quit. 21:04:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 21:15:47 it was just 800 kb :) 21:16:32 and the corners still don't work xD 21:23:54 i don't think i've ever produced as much code as today 21:24:04 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p334335231.txt <<< check that out and kill our server :) 21:39:59 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:05:05 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:01:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 2007-10-16: 00:18:14 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:18:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:02:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:17:23 -!- kwertii has joined. 01:17:30 -!- kwertii has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:30:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:38:22 -!- Corun has quit ("Arrr!"). 01:52:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:02:07 -!- cmeme has quit (Client Quit). 02:02:18 -!- cmeme has joined. 02:12:47 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:01:07 hahahah there's a nsfw.reddit.com 03:19:29 goodnight/day... 03:23:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:23:29 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:03:29 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:10:56 -!- ^_` has joined. 04:11:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:11:24 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 04:13:11 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 04:13:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:15:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:30:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:31:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:49:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 06:17:40 -!- immibis has joined. 06:18:12 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined. 06:18:31 !raw nick toboge 06:18:32 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toboge. 06:18:57 !raw join #toboge 06:19:01 !raw part #esoteric 06:19:01 -!- toboge has left (?). 06:20:29 * immibis forgot toboge's nickserv password again. 06:20:58 -!- immibis has left (?). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:39:38 -!- clog has joined. 09:39:38 -!- clog has joined. 09:45:16 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 09:45:36 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:19:49 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:20:07 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:23:44 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:09:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:03 Has anyone tried to write an asynchronous programming language before? 13:21:20 That is, one where you can't guarantee that the previous command has finished executing before the next one starts 13:21:39 and if you try to change more than one bit in the internal state at once, they might change one at a time with other things happening in between 13:35:33 -!- jix has joined. 13:37:56 !ul (GregorR, in response to something you were wondering a few days ago, the 'ul' daemon on EgoBot is an Underload interpreter)S 13:38:30 but I set it up via /query EgoBot, so it only gives its answers to me and therefore is kind of useless for anyone else to play around with at the moment 14:28:55 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:29:57 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:39:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:50:42 -!- tokigun has joined. 15:52:40 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 16:03:25 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:28:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:52:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:00:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:05:49 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 18:16:11 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:16:21 -!- jix has joined. 18:23:28 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:34:02 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:41:53 4 18:42:34 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:17:27 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:37:25 * SimonRC wonders if any of the Calxists are here. 19:41:17 cult of the no google results? 19:41:29 bsmntbom1dood: that's what i was about to say 19:41:43 hmm 19:41:49 indeed 19:41:51 "calxist" returns someone who went into #osdev 2007 19:42:01 calxists returns you asking the same thing: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/07.07.13 19:42:09 heh 19:42:17 elaborate? :) 19:42:26 Too complicated to explain 19:42:28 but 19:42:36 oh come on 19:42:43 you can't bring it up and not tell us what it is 19:42:47 yeah 19:42:50 that's illegal 19:43:25 They do want it to be kept semi-queit 19:43:29 ah, waitamo... 19:43:45 oh for hecks sake 19:43:48 if you want it to be quiet 19:43:51 stfu and don't mention it 19:43:54 that's even worse 19:44:26 http://conworlds.info/cwbb/viewtopic.php?p=2067#2067 19:44:52 i was trying to remember who was the person/people here that were the founders 19:45:32 without reading a big (for forums) post, summarize it 19:45:34 calxism = ? 19:45:40 owtf 19:45:47 i broke my 1/8" to 1/4" adapter 19:46:04 a philosophy 19:46:19 conworld = constructed world? 19:46:23 yes 19:46:29 Sci-fi, in my case 19:46:32 calxism's core pillars of "LOL OK THIS IS TRUE:" = ? 19:46:38 name 3 19:46:39 Calxism tries to use logic to get the results we want 19:46:45 that's called science 19:46:51 no 19:47:21 Calxism tries to derive things like "murder is forbidden" from its core premise 19:47:34 core premise = 19:47:39 Actually it ends up deriving "murder should be really expensive" 19:47:42 ah... 19:47:58 what's the core premise? 19:48:29 * SimonRC tries to think how to explain... 19:48:47 you have a philosophy based on a core premise you can't explain 19:48:52 congrats 19:50:10 I didn't invent Calxism, I nicked it 19:50:26 ok, i think this sums it up roughly: "It's more about making a decisicion on what goal we should follow based on incomplete information being a bad call now, I think. There may or may not be a goal, but we should learn as much as we can incase there's something we discover more goalworthy along the way. In other words, more information can never be a bad thing, so for lack of a goal we should learn. If we find a goal we can all aspire to, great, if we d 19:50:35 (copypasta) 19:50:55 The idea is that there may be an ultimate goal, if so we need to find it 19:51:02 how do you derive "murder = expensive" from that? 19:51:19 The people I am lookingfor are the ones that were trying to write a book and start a country 19:51:25 ehird`: waste of people 19:51:33 SimonRC: how does that follow from the above 19:51:46 SimonRC: let's start a country! 19:51:48 can't remember exactly, it was a while ago 19:51:50 i've always wanted to do that 19:52:05 they added some extra stuff to make an actual legal system 19:52:13 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 19:52:42 the catchphrase "logical means to illogical ends" came up a few times 19:53:14 I think they planned to give people some money-like stuff depending on how hard they worked, or something... 19:53:26 that's called capitalism 19:53:44 heh 19:53:50 no, it is more restricted 19:53:53 and more centralised 19:53:58 oh great 19:54:00 there issome communism in there too 19:54:08 restriction and centralization, my favorite things 19:54:08 restricted centralized capitalism 19:54:10 just what we need 19:54:20 it's called "soviet union" 19:54:30 (... Communism, just what we need) 19:54:41 they had some other stuff that actually made it sound almost workable 19:54:58 and you could spend your "money" on things 19:55:07 omg! 19:55:15 there was no crime as such, just really expensive stuff 19:55:33 do i have to spend money to go to the toilet? 19:55:39 dunno 19:55:40 oh joy, so the RIAA can murder me if they want 19:55:42 I didn;t invent it 19:55:45 that's quite literally the definition of "money". A representative object or objects that can be exchanged for goods or services. 19:55:49 but i can't afford to fight back 19:56:00 but it isn't inheritable for a start 19:56:11 bsmntbombdood: I raised that point 19:56:43 except I think it is personal and non-transferrable 19:56:54 non-transferrable money? 19:56:59 isn't that called... "rocks"? 19:57:00 umm 19:57:09 or maybe... "air"? 19:57:12 how about "void"? 19:57:14 huh? 19:57:46 oh, right 19:57:49 possibly there was some restriction on how you could transferr it 19:58:00 anyway, I wasn't terribly convinced that such a country would work 19:58:11 the channel has gone very quite 19:58:12 money's entire function is in the act of transfer. You'd have to get pretty metaphysical and impractical to design an economy without monetary exchange. 19:58:26 It'd make "money" more like karma. 19:58:48 it wasn't exactly money, it was a measure of how much resources you werew allowed to use for your own leisure 19:59:14 so basically a metric by which your value to society is measured. 19:59:15 this sounds like a very happyfun society 19:59:23 (Note: here be sarcasm) 19:59:35 (the whole thing is a great illustration of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" here applied to philosohpy) 19:59:39 ehird`: yup 19:59:49 RodgerTheGreat: yes, ish 20:00:09 "beancounting communism". interesting. 20:00:40 lol wut 20:00:49 hahaha 20:00:50 this doesn't make any sense >_< 20:01:24 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1190260876-inetargument.png 20:01:32 bsmntbombdood: you have to pay to go to the toilet, basically 20:02:06 public bathrooms in Germany charge a small fee to contribute to the maintenance and cleaning of said bathroom. 20:02:33 bathrooms in america have to pay to hook up to the sewer and for flushing water 20:02:37 RodgerTheGreat: damn I wish I were funny like you can be 20:02:56 re the cartoon, i mean 20:03:04 if that's sarcasm, it wasn't supposed to be amazing or anything 20:03:27 it wasn't sarcasm 20:03:35 was it? 20:03:39 i like the country i live in 20:03:46 or rather, I mean that I was able to write+draw comics at all 20:03:52 although i've always wanted to live in one of those sex cults 20:03:53 oh. then thanks. :) 20:04:01 oklopol: me too! 20:04:14 oklopol: i've always wanted to sex in one of those live cults 20:04:16 have you heard of dumba? 20:04:18 damn, that doesn't work 20:04:37 dumba? 20:04:51 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1190338381-deal.png <- I liked this one better. 20:05:13 or seen shortbus? 20:07:11 shortbus seems nice 20:07:40 "shortbus"? 20:07:45 a movie 20:08:25 any movie that's not a porno but starts off with an autofelatio scene has to be good 20:08:34 a 20:08:36 er 20:08:39 never heard of it 20:08:52 and you must have to be flexible to do that 20:08:59 yeah 20:09:03 waitamo... 20:09:04 hmm 20:09:13 * SimonRC feels that length of his ribcage 20:09:16 *the 20:09:27 the rib-cage can't bend... 20:09:35 remove your ribcage! 20:09:41 IMDB trivia on "shortbus": "To make the actors more comfortable, the director and the cameramen were stripped naked while filming the orgy scene." 20:09:45 and the vertebrae below it have a total length less than it... 20:09:50 heh 20:10:04 and it isn't porn? 20:10:09 I don't want to know 20:10:13 i'll see if i can find a screenshot 20:10:33 DO NOT WANT. 20:10:36 http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/476/shortbus00603984vu0.jpg 20:10:42 aw, christ 20:10:50 some fag covered the penis though 20:11:07 bsmntbombdood: first thought: ouroboros 20:11:51 SimonRC: yeah, it's not porn 20:12:31 * SimonRC agrees with RodgerTheGreat 20:13:48 :( 20:13:58 * SimonRC wonders when it will become commercially possibleto re-activate the human tail genes 20:14:11 they occasioanlly re-activate on their own 20:14:27 it will be a wonderful day for furries and a dark day for every sane human on earth. 20:14:33 SimonRC: when all biologists become furries 20:14:35 there are a very tiny number of people with monkey-like tails, about 30cm long 20:14:48 that's awesome 20:14:49 I think ehird` and I are on the same wavelength here. 20:14:50 * SimonRC recalls the events of 2043 20:14:52 are they prehensile? 20:15:01 bsmntbombdood: dunno 20:15:20 they look ugly due to no fur 20:15:20 RodgerTheGreat: quick, detune 20:15:25 i don't like wave interference 20:15:34 * RodgerTheGreat smashes his head against a desk 20:15:44 RodgerTheGreat: um? 20:15:46 much better 20:16:23 Is that a waveform collapse I taste? Or possibly blood. 20:17:14 SimonRC: I think adding a naked, ratlike tail to a human is one of the few ways you could possibly make us look more ridiculous. 20:17:35 RodgerTheGreat: i've seen both those strips before :< 20:17:38 good though 20:17:42 RodgerTheGreat: I think the furry biologists will probably work on that. 20:17:43 oklopol: sorry 20:18:06 "Half human, half squirrel, all fucking retarded" 20:18:24 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1192513276-diff2.png 20:18:27 All humans fuck retarded people now? 20:18:34 ... probably true 20:18:47 ... that is one possible interpretation of what I said. 20:18:49 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:19:20 ah, one of my best works: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.dragons/msg/f1961295cd324d15 20:19:25 RodgerTheGreat: those two pictures are identical 20:19:27 you bastard 20:19:37 ehird`: :D 20:19:46 the "solutions" page is gonna be hilarious 20:20:05 there are none. 20:20:12 "PIXEL #34 IS DIFFERENT" 20:20:20 ehird`: fast checking :| 20:20:21 I hope we can all agree, however, that genetic engineering + sexual fetishism = bad, bad news. 20:20:26 "BY ONE RGB VALUE" 20:20:32 i actually checked 3 times, though 20:20:49 actually, it seems to be the same image scanned in twice 20:20:55 RodgerTheGreat: hmm, yes 20:21:02 RodgerTheGreat: how do you genetically engineer for necrophillia? 20:21:19 who is the guy in the foreground? 20:21:21 ehird`: that is left as an exercise for the reader 20:21:27 SimonRC: which? 20:21:35 the one in all your cartoons 20:21:43 front desk 20:21:48 oh yes, that character is based on me. 20:21:48 awake 20:21:52 SimonRC: him? 20:21:55 "based on"? 20:21:58 based on. 20:22:16 (SimonRC lives in a world where every character has a 1:1 mapping to real people.) 20:22:17 as in not literally me, but in many ways similar. 20:22:25 ah, ok 20:22:29 makes sense 20:22:44 he is, for example, a hardcode DOS guru, whereas I am a mac user. 20:23:15 is there a collection of your cartoons? 20:23:23 there are more than just those 5on your site 20:23:42 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/ <- in here 20:23:51 starting with Comic001, etc 20:24:00 bbl- classes 20:24:00 * SimonRC reads 20:24:38 RodgerTheGreat> I hope we can all agree, however, that genetic engineering + sexual fetishism = bad, bad news. <-- unless it's your fetish 20:25:57 we really need an #esoteric-social 20:26:18 maybe 20:26:18 it's called #esoteric 20:26:25 heh 20:26:34 #vry-esoteric 20:26:37 *very 20:26:43 * SimonRC indicates his announcement of a few months back 20:26:46 #esoteric-esoterica 20:27:07 (actually, #esoteric-social exists, but only of virtue of me being in there in case anyone joins) 20:27:39 no 20:27:41 that's stupid 20:27:41 quick, nobody join! 20:27:50 SimonRC: :) 20:28:19 * SimonRC whistles the Chip's hallenge music 20:28:24 *Challenge 20:29:05 * bsmntbombdood is is is listening to helloween 20:29:13 * ehird` is is is 20:29:24 whoa 20:29:36 i've done 2 repititions of a word before, never 3 20:29:45 is is is is is is is is is is 20:30:04 grarg :( 20:30:14 i have to write a report about either aids or hunger 20:30:21 hunger for aids 20:31:30 it exists 20:31:34 "conversion parties" etc 20:45:43 -!- Corun has joined. 21:01:07 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:25:20 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:30:31 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:33:36 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:36:33 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:55:08 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 22:13:46 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:47:23 5*4=-3 23:00:46 ...modulo 23 23:00:58 5*4=-4 modulo 23 23:01:23 congruent 23:01:27 (Is this "make formula that cannot be corrected by simple augmentation" day?) 23:01:32 5*4=2i modulo 23 23:01:43 -!- g4lt-sb100 has joined. 23:04:55 omg i gotta sleep :O 23:04:55 -> 23:05:46 -!- g4lt-mordant has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:14:42 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:38:16 zzzzzzzzzzz 23:44:19 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2007-10-17: 00:00:49 mesm (adj): Transfixed in a state of wonderment. 00:00:57 mesmer (adj): More mesm 00:01:11 m - high degrees of mesm 00:01:19 mesmerize (verb): To cause to be more mesm 00:01:36 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:02:13 I think I'll use "mesm" all the time from now on. 00:02:17 I like this invented word. 00:03:36 m 00:08:52 I'm back 00:08:59 I'mesm back 00:10:01 IRP PARSING ERROR: INFINITE RECURSION DETECTED! 00:10:18 *explode* 00:10:48 to operate without this warning, try IRP -XERROFF -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED. 00:11:31 IRP -XERROF -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED I'mesm back 00:12:15 just a moment... 00:12:19 just a moment... 00:12:24 just a moment... 00:12:38 welcome back, ehird`! 00:12:52 I'mesm back 00:13:12 [cache retrieval] -> yeah, hi. 00:13:41 IRP -XERROFF -XNOCACHE -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED I'mesm back 00:14:52 IRP ERROR: INVALID SWITCH: "-XNOCACHE" 00:15:36 IRP -SWITCHES:CACHE 00:16:25 IRP RUNTIME ERROR: TestingMyPatienceException(); ON LINE 1 00:16:40 IRP -PATIENCE:inf -SWITCHES:CACHE 00:16:46 go to hell 00:16:52 IRP -PATIENCE:inf -SWITCHES:CACHE 00:17:09 i can see i will have to resort to brute force 00:17:22 [starting daemon, reply "go to hell" -> "IRP go to hell"] 00:17:23 IRP go to hell 00:17:56 [process limit reached] 00:18:14 [rebooting IRP system, renewed patience] 00:18:21 IRP what is the switch to disable cache? 00:19:09 ERROR: HELP FILES NOT FOUND! msg="Further information is not available here." 00:19:29 IRP -XERROFF -CACHE:0 -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED I'mesm back 00:20:33 Hey- Segmentation Fault. 00:20:41 aiiigh, my brain 00:20:44 haha 00:20:47 ok, let's see 00:21:33 IRP -XERROFF -CACHE:0 -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED Please run newIRP3.14, the unofficial IRP implementation without the no-cache segfault bug. 00:22:32 sorry, my implementation uses a neural-net based bugfixing system. Commandline arguments containing "CACHE" are no longer allowed. 00:23:15 IRP -XERROFF -UNSTRICT -BOUNDED Please run newIRP3.14, the unofficial IRP implementation without any cache implementation. (Note: keep the cache in the normal implementation, newIRP does not utilize it anyway.) 00:23:54 Please wait... GARBAGE COLLECTING... 00:24:17 wtf is this noise 00:24:33 bsmntbombdood: we are recalling language implementations of yore 00:24:42 SWITCHING TO TIMESHARE MODE: 00:24:47 oh, hey bsmntbombdood 00:26:15 hi 00:29:53 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:10:34 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Excess Flood). 03:59:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:45:58 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 05:51:27 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 06:48:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:04:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:19:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:27:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("zzzzz"). 10:45:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:00:51 -!- oklopol has joined. 11:29:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 12:03:29 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 12:14:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:37:56 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:51:59 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 13:14:47 -!- kwertii has quit. 13:34:17 -!- jix has joined. 14:03:14 -!- Nucleo has joined. 14:15:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 14:27:05 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:47:09 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:53:56 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:03:30 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:22:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:37:17 asdf bar 17:38:08 qwerty uiop 17:39:01 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 17:39:23 zvchwk fitaly ne qdorsb qjumpx 17:39:43 what keyboard layout is THAT 17:40:07 FITALY 17:40:09 it rox 17:40:19 it is designed for pen input 17:40:22 are you having me on or is it a real layout? :P 17:40:36 you can get it for PalmOS and it beats the built-in keyboard in every way 17:40:41 seriously 17:40:51 there are two space keys either side of the ne 17:41:15 my text entry instantly became much more reliable once I installed it 17:41:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 17:41:18 i'd take anything to get rid of qwerty 17:41:19 \][oiuytrewq';lkjhgfdsa/.,mnbvcxz 17:41:28 oklopol: why? 17:41:31 hate it 17:41:34 bsmntbombdood: you appear to lack the lwtter p 17:42:11 if the letters are dropped around randomly, i want to be the one who's done the randomization... 17:42:47 SimonRC: link to site? 17:43:04 i used dvorak for a couple of days 17:43:07 finding... 17:43:37 also it'd be nice if the characters would change their positions every now and then so i'd have to relearn them 17:43:37 http://www.fitaly.com/product/palmonscreen.htm 17:43:45 there are many versions all over 17:43:48 but that is the one I use 17:43:56 you need a thingy called "hackmaster" too 17:44:02 but it is all free 17:44:18 oklopol: lulwut? 17:44:37 wut at which thing i said? 17:45:06 also it'd be nice if the characters would change their positions every now and then so i'd have to relearn them 17:45:10 ah 17:45:13 er... so? 17:45:16 that wouldn't be very nice for me 17:45:57 a bit of brainfuck is always welcome 18:12:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:39:52 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:44:39 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:52:08 * GregorR <3 FITALY 18:52:33 Of course, /me <3 PDAs and Tablet PCs too X-P 18:57:12 http://img.waffleimages.com/d295812ff06a7092ed89cf34da589a91787c000d/hehe.jpg 18:57:35 -!- Fa1r has joined. 18:57:45 RodgerTheGreat: /me sooo lazy, wanna regive the comics page :P 18:57:59 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/ 18:58:09 that's the "everything" page 18:59:30 ERROR 404: INTERPRETER_NOT_FOUND on #irp ? 18:59:38 ( ;^P ) 19:00:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:00:35 if you want a new IRP interpreter, find someone of the opposite gender and get "compiling". I'm told it takes about 9 months. 19:00:48 booting up takes a while, too 19:00:57 Wher' do i get sources ? 19:01:16 that's the best part- you already have a copy! 19:01:24 billions of copies, in fact 19:01:46 whoa \o/ .. let's have a party for the fact. 19:02:03 RodgerTheGreat: have you painted all of that? 19:02:08 or are some just random pics? :P 19:02:41 pretty much everything in the images folder was created by me. What are you asking about, specifically? 19:03:31 back 19:04:15 i wonder how fitaly would work with a small-form keyboard 19:04:24 the 3d-logic thingi 19:04:25 *e 19:04:47 oklopol: those are screenshots of a puzzle game I played online 19:04:58 ack, that game 19:05:03 its really damn hard :( 19:05:08 I loved it 19:07:19 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:09:06 i might buy a small-form keyboard 19:09:07 try out fitaly 19:09:58 fitaly is even better when your silkscreen is software based, like on my Handera 330. 19:17:51 hm 19:18:18 * ehird` wonders if fitaly would really work that well with real keys 19:19:31 ehird`: not very well 19:19:41 if thye keys were light enough? 19:19:42 it's optimized for stylus-touching 19:20:12 the key arrangement is designed around the finger motions necessary to point and tap on keys 19:25:45 i wonder what a keyboard based on letter frequency in general usage is 19:25:59 (if I'm not mistaken, etaoinsrhl / dcumfpgwy / bvkxjqz) 19:26:05 well 19:26:20 etaoinsrhl below the dcumfpgwy row of course, as it'd be the home row 19:26:24 so actually: 19:27:23 ldcumfpgwy / etaoinsrh / bvkxjqz 19:28:05 * ehird` wishes there was a program that would take something like that and generate a keyboard layout simply -- for testing 19:28:14 maybe display it on screen too while you are testing 19:33:12 etaoinsrhlu 19:33:18 etaoinshrdlu* 19:33:22 is not correct 19:33:31 its actually etaoinsrhld 19:33:35 =) 19:33:41 take that, age-old typewriter layouts! 19:33:53 i don't believe you 19:33:59 that's nice# 19:34:26 MY BOOK SAID ETAOINSHRDLU 19:34:35 books are always right 19:34:51 yeah. 19:36:04 * ehird` dares someone to switch to ldcumfpgwy / etaoinsrh / bvkxjqz cold turkey 19:36:06 :D 19:41:04 would be nice, i'd do it if it didn't actually mean i have to get something to change the meaning of my keys 19:44:14 :P 19:49:26 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 19:49:40 that meaning i'm too lazy to program/dl something for it 20:06:31 =) 20:07:40 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:07:50 -!- jix has joined. 20:12:29 Foo 20:59:05 http://elgoog.rb-hosting.de/index.cgi?dir=/&page=/codesearch%3Fhl=en%26q=hello,%5C+world%26amp;ct=hp 20:59:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:01:28 HI OERJAN 21:01:33 HI oklopol 21:02:03 HI SEO_DUDE38 21:02:09 HI 21:02:15 let's hi them all, mwahaah 21:02:32 oh, you were indeed hi'ing me :P 21:02:32 HO HUM 21:02:35 HI EHIRD 21:02:51 HI oerjan 21:03:16 i made my gol run like 20 times faster, and made it's ordo from O(cellcount*patterns) to O(patterns)! 21:03:27 now it only takes 5 minutes to run through one gol cycle!!! 21:03:52 o_O 21:03:58 hmm, actually i made tode run about 20 times faster... 21:04:02 the gol code wasn't changed 21:04:03 what is this written in? BCT? 21:04:12 tode, my new cool language! :DD 21:04:27 i wrote a 65656 line long GOL interpreter in it 21:04:29 example code please 21:04:33 Hello, world! 21:04:36 maybe even factorial? 21:04:41 or maybe cat 21:04:51 it's a 2d array rewriting language 21:05:02 and sadly not tc yet :< 21:05:22 i was wrong, it definately takes more than 5 minutes xD 21:05:26 oh well just show me some example code 21:05:35 i'll show you GOL. 21:05:39 oh god 21:05:40 (game of life) 21:07:12 eine Todessprache 21:07:22 for game of life 21:07:26 strangely ironic 21:07:38 hmm, trying to find the link... 21:07:45 is it on purpose? 21:08:05 nope 21:08:07 i doubt it 21:08:10 the name comes from "toad" 21:08:17 i didn't think of GOL when i made it 21:08:27 that was just something i thought the language might be good at ;) 21:08:38 turned out it failed more than anything has ever failed in anything :) 21:09:07 GOL should be really, really simple in an array rewriting languag 21:09:08 e 21:09:11 maybe your language just sucks :-) 21:09:13 but if i add a bit cleverer patterns, GOL will be a matter of just a few lines 21:09:15 paste the code somewhere 21:09:25 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p334335231.txt 21:09:56 oh my god 21:10:00 it's like thue in that you cannot have anything but an *exact* pattern 21:10:03 do you... have an interpreter? 21:10:06 yep 21:10:24 show me it 21:10:42 btw look in the bottom of the code and you'll see the board! :) 21:10:54 yeah 21:10:56 i'm horrified 21:11:24 wait, i think my gol is wrong xD 21:11:38 it's nice to test it when it takes 15 minutes to run one cycle :DDDDDDDD 21:11:58 ah, it's correct 21:12:00 thank god. 21:12:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:12:51 i'll paste the code 21:13:35 wait 21:13:39 you said it wasn't turing complete 21:13:44 yeah :< 21:13:47 Life is turing complete, with an infinite board. 21:13:55 well, the left pattern is the same size as the right pattern... 21:14:03 so... yeah. if you can represent an infinite life board (or just an automatically resizing one), it's TC 21:14:56 it doesn't currently resize, and because of the ascii nature, that might look a bit ugly 21:15:06 if it resizes to each direction 21:15:12 it could just resize right and down 21:15:19 well; just implement it somehow 21:15:22 => TC 21:16:15 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p112534342.txt <<< remember you asked for this, i already know my code is unreadable :) 21:16:35 in case you wanna tell me that again, i've heard it a couple of times 21:17:14 gosh 21:17:14 it is 21:17:18 what do you have against spaces 21:17:23 actually, i could just ditch the asciiness and just make it a net that can resize anywhere 21:17:27 i don't know 21:17:28 if a.__class__!=[].__class__: wtf 21:17:30 i think you mean: 21:17:32 makes the code harder to read 21:17:33 if type(a) != list: 21:17:46 what's the difference? 21:17:51 one is cleaner 21:18:08 well, as i said, i've heard all that 21:18:16 in fact, i've even heard that exact comment. 21:19:11 i've also heard you shouldn't do type testing like that at all... 21:19:17 you shouldn't 21:19:18 it's unpythonic 21:19:21 correct 21:19:30 by the way, i think i know the syntax of this language 21:19:39 a pattern is some arbitary ascii characters arranged into a block 21:19:41 it's pretty obvious from the example 21:19:50 x == y means "match x, change into y" 21:19:53 seperated by two enters 21:19:58 the last block is the default board 21:19:58 right? 21:20:00 yeah. 21:20:23 they seem to be executed in a very odd order 21:20:29 completely random 21:20:34 x == y, y == x, then "xyxyxy" on 3 lines seems to be pretty much random 21:20:35 aha 21:20:36 :) 21:20:40 and... it terminates 21:20:41 WTF 21:20:42 basically my idea was to extend thue to 2d 21:21:09 \;p 21:21:12 *:P 21:21:18 but turned out i can't make the "from" pattern different size from the "to" pattern 21:21:19 * ehird` runs your life simulation 21:21:26 thought that wouldn't be a big deal... 21:21:28 it sits there 21:21:28 nice :P 21:21:31 and 21:21:34 it won't be hard 21:21:39 add an optional bounding box 21:21:46 like `-----` for the top 21:21:47 once i actually started coding.... i realized it in fact makes it trivially not tc :< 21:21:48 | for the sides 21:21:54 and then 21:21:56 you can just do 21:22:00 blah = BOX bigger blah BOX 21:22:16 whut? 21:22:34 the GOL won't move for a while 21:22:47 since it has to check every pattern on the first cycle 21:23:08 once it starts moving, you can see the little v-character slowly moving downwards 21:23:27 it is the tode glider that makes the board mutate 21:24:05 hmm 21:24:09 i am trying to make a simple simulation 21:24:13 with a toad, actually :P 21:24:23 5-width 4-tall grid 21:24:30 filled with: one t, many f and e 21:24:31 f = food 21:24:33 e = enemy 21:24:36 hehe :) 21:24:43 yeah, stuff like that is actually pretty fun 21:24:43 i'm trying to make t move to f 21:24:44 in that 21:24:45 and move away from e 21:24:46 however 21:24:49 i can't seem to say 21:24:54 "arbitary amounts of X here" 21:25:12 but you should have stuff like mirroring for the rules and another language to help pattern mathings... 21:25:12 (which i need, to be able to move the toad around the board without enumerating every single possibility) 21:25:34 hehe, you can't do that really .P 21:25:35 :P 21:25:41 make it possible! :P 21:26:41 just do like me and brute force each possibility of the length X pattern ;) 21:26:50 fine :P 21:26:57 i'll make it 5x3 instead 21:27:32 argh 21:27:34 impossible 21:27:36 i need to do diagonals too 21:27:43 :( please make it nicer :P 21:28:02 i think instead of managing to do a nice "more flexible thue", i've actually created the worlds suckiest language. 21:28:11 world's 21:28:46 i created the language to test how hard parsing can be made, actually 21:28:53 this language is interesting 21:28:54 i like it 21:29:00 just add some more power to it 21:29:05 and it will be very interesting for coding stuff 21:29:13 automata coding will be trivial 21:29:17 even non-programmers could use it, i'd imagine 21:29:24 i'll make another small language to code stuff like "count neighbours" 21:29:34 by letting you put variables in the pattern. 21:29:39 A...Z prolly 21:29:53 a sub-language? 21:29:55 that would be good actually 21:30:02 that way, instead of begin 65656 lines, GOL would be about 20 ;) 21:30:04 make tode what you have now, and various integrated sub-languages 21:30:12 hehe, millions! 21:30:15 and have them interact 21:30:17 that would be really cool 21:30:33 i think the first thing you should add though 21:30:36 is a wildcard i can use in patterns 21:30:40 meaning: "anything goes here" 21:30:45 yeah 21:30:51 and they have a number 21:30:53 1,2,3,etc 21:31:04 and some syntax like $num in the replacement 21:31:08 would put the wildcard there 21:31:15 instantly, everything becomes much more simple 21:31:40 yeah, that would be a lot stronger 21:31:43 and very simple 21:32:09 then add some way to make replacements bigger than sources 21:32:14 and already, you have a very powerful language 21:32:31 actually, you already have that 21:32:34 i'll add it tomorrow, right now i'm hooked on death note :| 21:32:40 hmm? 21:32:41 since the patterns are seperated by blank lines 21:32:46 you can just put two grids like 21:32:57 xxx == yyyy 21:32:57 xxx yyyy 21:32:57 yyyy 21:33:00 you see? 21:33:07 hmm not really :| 21:33:26 currently, btw, the syntax might be a bit different than what your intuition might tell you 21:33:38 XXX__===_YYY 21:33:43 worth noting by the way: 21:33:45 IndexError: list index out of range 21:33:47 i keep getting that 21:33:50 :DD 21:33:59 ah, must be my new optimization ;) 21:34:05 i didn't have much time to test it :P 21:34:09 put it back :P 21:34:10 okay, debugging time then 21:34:14 when does it occur? 21:34:32 pretty much everywhere? :P 21:34:45 pretty much 21:34:46 i don't know 21:34:48 err 21:34:51 line 62 though 21:34:53 the problem is the one without the optimization was a verrrry stupid one 21:34:54 in sublist2d_equ 21:35:11 hmm 21:35:16 it seems to happen when you run out of replacements to make 21:35:17 :P 21:35:18 it actually tested every pattern for every subarray of the big array 21:35:21 oh 21:36:13 ah, i see what the problem is 21:36:17 trivial to fix 21:36:49 definately though, three things and this would be perfect: 21:37:02 a way to say "arbitary number of Xs", then copy that arbitary number in the output 21:37:11 a way to say "anything", then copy that thing in the output 21:37:17 a way to make replacements bigger than patterns 21:37:42 i think it now works 21:37:48 hmm 21:38:27 what would it mean actually, that the replacements were bigger? 21:38:41 because i simply don't know what would happen :| 21:38:43 what do you mean? 21:38:50 just some way to expand the board 21:38:50 well... in a string 21:38:57 (also, what does the box above exec do?) 21:38:58 you can just expand to the right, and make room 21:39:03 but if you have a 2d array 21:39:18 you have to expand in both directions... and... i have no idea what the result should be 21:39:26 box... above exec? 21:39:26 oh 21:39:29 delay 21:39:34 0.5s by default 21:39:35 what is it by default 21:39:37 ah 21:40:00 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:40:37 word of warning: it's dangerous changing the code when it's running... somehow tkinter seems to deadlock or something no matter how cool threading i tried to add :D 21:41:09 and no, i'm not rereading the code while running 21:41:13 it's the scrolling tool 21:41:15 methinks 21:42:11 ... best idea ever: 21:42:17 make it possible to run patterns ON THE CODE 21:42:20 ehird`: if you want replacements to be able to be bigger than the original array, please show me an example of one such replacement 21:42:26 heh, i thought of that 21:42:38 but, not sure what the syntax would be, yet 21:43:09 hmm, you could just have the whole code be the thing to pattern match on, except rules wouldn't match themselves :P 21:44:02 i think i exploded 21:44:03 that would require me to leave the code unparsed, and would slow it down quite a lot 21:44:22 did cha now? 21:44:53 please do it 21:45:03 :DD 21:45:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 21:45:54 bsmntbombdood: i forgot the movie you mentioned :| 21:45:57 can you remention? 21:46:09 shortbus? 21:46:19 ehird`: i was thinking i'd do stuff tomorrow, possibly that then, too 21:46:24 ah, thank you 21:51:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:02:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:05:48 * ehird` would love a screenshot of ii ;) 22:06:08 (irc client that has an in file and you cat to an out file to use it, haha... not much screenshot potential) 22:22:35 -!- kwertii has joined. 22:24:09 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 22:47:20 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:09:25 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 23:13:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 23:13:12 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 23:27:57 oklopol: you alive? 23:43:42 yes 23:43:45 :P 23:43:53 barely 23:44:28 a part of me wants to sleep, most of me thinks it'd be weak not to be able to watch a few episodes first. 23:45:56 episodies of what? 23:46:14 death note 23:46:39 never heard of it 23:47:06 lol manga 23:47:10 i finally collapsed under the pressure of my anime-geek friends 23:47:13 fucking japs 23:47:38 usually it's that stupid swordplay, i can't stand that 23:47:41 this is kinda nice 23:55:01 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:55:37 So, oklopol discovered anime porn. 23:55:48 A lot of "sword"play, yes. 23:56:37 and tentacles! 2007-10-18: 00:03:14 oh, hentai is nice 00:03:29 by swords i mean that medieval theme they have going for some reason 00:03:51 well, i don't actually watch much hentai, it's a bit boring imo 00:04:59 Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure 00:05:17 hmm, i'm not sure why i'd lie about that :) 00:05:33 yeah, hentai isn't that great 00:05:44 i do admit i watch porn multiple hours a day. 00:05:51 Was that the first time someone sang the National Anthem into your ass? 00:05:53 No. 00:06:00 if at all, that is... 00:06:25 oklopol: that's a line from shortbus 00:06:30 :) 00:06:35 after it was done, explicitly shown 00:06:36 gotta watch that 00:06:44 81%... 00:08:06 * SimonRC goes to bed. 00:10:11 i do like watching hentai as long as they're not having the actual sex, once the repeation of two pictures begins, it gets pretty stupid 00:12:02 needs more tentacles 00:13:27 i haven't actually seen a hentai *movie* with tentacle monsters, i might enjoy that, dunno 00:13:39 that's not something you often see in regular porn 00:14:09 (well octopuss..es(?) sometimes) 00:14:16 hmm, spelling is hard 00:14:17 ... 00:14:28 octopi 00:14:34 ah 00:15:25 that's one sexy animal 00:15:52 hmm, wonder if the shop's still open 00:15:56 i'm kinda thirsty 00:16:11 water? 00:16:27 and octopusses aren't sexy 00:16:39 hmm... for some reason i don't like drinking water 00:16:45 perhaps because it's so easy to get. 00:16:49 tastes good 00:16:57 but... nah 00:17:41 http://tomoyo.lenin.ru/Sawatari/Picture3.jpg 00:18:03 http://tomoyo.lenin.ru/Sawatari/Picture6.jpg <--- lol octo-hickies 00:18:11 hehe :P 00:19:31 well, it's one thing to have them suck you, another to... find them a natural environment in ones body 00:19:53 i guess that goes for any object. 00:20:01 ...that can suck 00:20:11 hmm, i'm making a lot of sense. 00:20:15 shoppings! 00:24:14 ...i realized i need clothes to go out :| 00:32:55 3 min and shortbus is ready 00:39:43 noo go naked 00:41:48 it's kinda cold 01:25:03 -!- kwertii has quit (Client Quit). 02:13:15 great movie 02:13:53 gotta sleep though -> 02:37:04 I nominate Ruby for "most esoteric syntax of a P-language". 02:37:19 (using Gregor's notion that Ruby is an honorary P-language) 02:40:20 ruby's syntax isn't very esoteric 02:40:47 all the p-languages but lisp have the same syntax 02:40:49 {foo} == do foo end == foo 02:41:24 Sigils specify the *scope* of a variable. 02:41:41 meh 02:42:12 puts("Foo") == puts "Foo" 02:42:28 unimportant 02:43:06 {|x| x x} is how they write (lambda x (x x)). 02:44:03 {"foo" => bar, "baz" => qux} is how they write a hash map. 02:44:09 still, superficial 02:45:00 Regexps are part of the core syntax. 02:45:08 bsmntbombdood: I'm discussing the syntax. 02:45:19 If you want to get technical, *all syntax is superficial*. 02:45:23 true 02:45:36 You can just convert all of it into a parse tree and express the same damned thing, after all. . . 02:45:40 but all the things you bring up are simple, 1-to-1 transformations 02:45:52 Which are still ugly. 02:46:24 Hmm. Even the regexps as *part of the syntax*? 02:46:55 perl does it 02:47:39 And Perl's an ugly language, with foo "bar" meaning foo("bar") meaning &foo("bar") meaning &foo "bar". 02:48:17 which is similar to ruby's foo "bar" == foo("bar") 02:48:25 same in haskell 02:48:33 Which is bad syntax. 02:48:38 no it's not 02:48:43 yes it is 02:48:52 it's bad, not esoteric 02:49:06 does it annoy you that (5+5) means the same as 5+5 ? 02:49:07 Fine. I nominate Ruby for worst syntax, instead. 02:49:20 lament: that's different 02:50:00 in haskell, that's exactly the reason why foo "bar" and foo ("bar") are equivalent 02:50:23 That, itself, is different. 02:51:01 In Perl, foo("bar") is treated like a similar C expression. . . And foo "bar" has the same reaction occur. 02:51:32 It's not because of some nice syntax feature like expr := ( :expr: ) 02:51:37 i'm suprised you say ruby has worse syntax than perl 02:51:47 bsmntbombdood: Hmm. 02:51:51 perl has no syntax 02:51:55 Thinking back to Perl, Perl is a bit worse. 02:51:59 Ruby still sucks. 02:52:18 in perl, anything could mean anything, and there's no formal syntax 02:52:30 lament: ...exactly 02:52:39 what's that feature where you can use _any_ marker to delimit a string? 02:52:50 perl has that 02:52:56 O.o 02:53:08 they say nothing but perl can parse Perl 02:53:32 the semantics are, "everything from this point till the word Cabbage is a string... foo..bar...Cabbage" 02:53:58 "puts << Cabbage" I believe, would be the offending syntax. 02:54:04 ah, right. 02:54:25 that's _insane_, syntax-wise. 02:54:49 oh, that 02:54:51 bash too 02:54:57 forth is the only other language i know that allows such tricks 02:55:16 Is it too much to ask for a *sane* language syntax? 02:55:25 pikhq: no, lisp gives it to you 02:55:45 pikhq: no, haskell's right there! 02:55:49 bsmntbombdood: Right; thank God for the Lisps, and all the other donations to good syntax heaven that have been made. 02:56:17 even though CL's read-syntax junk is not so good 02:56:46 requiring executing CL in read time, wtf? 02:56:57 s/in/at/ 02:57:06 I'd say that CL has a good few WTFs. 02:57:12 hooray scheme 02:57:33 haskell haskell haskell 02:57:37 Tcl. 02:57:47 haskell syntax is god. i love it. 02:57:57 haskell syntax is too complicated 02:58:02 it's a perfect balance between human-readability and sanity 02:58:19 Brainfuck's lack of syntax is awesome. 02:58:22 bsmntbombdood: no it's not. It's exactly as simple as it should be. 02:58:28 Well, it has syntax. . . 02:58:32 pikhq: [] 02:58:42 i want a syntaxless brainfuck 02:58:54 bsmntbombdood: making it any more simple would shift the balance towards computer-readability and away from human-readability 02:59:07 and we know where that leads 02:59:08 lisp 02:59:42 bsmntbombdood: The "[" command shall define a goto. The "]" shall go to the goto number in the current cell. 02:59:57 Erm. 03:00:00 That fails. 03:00:01 pikhq: doesn't work, no conditional 03:00:18 Happy with syntaxless non-TC Brainfuck? :p 03:03:41 Actually, I think that the ] command would, in effect, be able to be used to select among cell-max conditions. . . 03:05:09 [+][+][+][+][+][-----] Also, it produces this interesting infinite loop. 03:07:53 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:29:11 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:32:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:41:34 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 03:56:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:19:50 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:20:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:20:16 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 04:27:36 -!- SomeGuyAtHome has joined. 04:33:02 -!- SomeGuyAtHome has left (?). 04:41:22 -!- LoginError has joined. 04:43:32 -!- LoginError has quit (Client Quit). 04:43:42 -!- helios24 has joined. 04:45:22 -!- kwertii has joined. 04:52:55 -!- immibis has joined. 04:53:17 -!- immibis has left (?). 05:15:51 Bye all 05:16:06 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:20:07 -!- SomeGuyAtHome has joined. 07:12:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:25:54 -!- g4lt-sb100 has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 07:26:45 -!- kwertii has quit (Client Quit). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:20:25 -!- immibis has joined. 08:21:52 who is here right now? 08:22:19 nobody 08:22:23 you are. 08:22:31 * oerjan looks around 08:22:47 it's an irc channel, oerjan. 08:22:53 nope, i see no oerjan around here. 08:23:01 !ps d 08:23:03 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 08:23:05 2 immibis: ps 08:23:34 !daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+] 08:23:37 !cat test 08:23:39 test 08:23:51 !ul i wonder what this daemon does. 08:25:35 it's an underload interpreter in brainfuck 08:25:48 it sends the result to ais523, who is not present 08:25:58 ok... 08:26:01 what is underload? 08:26:09 the opposite of overload? 08:26:17 look on the wiki? 08:26:30 presumably 08:26:35 !ps d 08:26:39 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 08:26:41 2 immibis: daemon cat bf 08:26:43 3 oerjan: ps 08:27:25 @quote arglebargle 08:27:31 argh 08:28:26 i need at least 5 people for this question. 08:29:26 * immibis should make a bot that bridges between a channel and a query - for example so egobot could be used on other channels. 08:29:29 very bad timing then 08:30:18 what a rude quine - (:aSS):aSS 08:32:42 * immibis waits patiently 08:32:50 * immibis waits patiently for someone to ask what he's waiting for 08:33:48 * oerjan waits patiently for immibis to wait some more 08:34:13 * immibis waits patiently for oerjan to wait some more for immibis to wait some more 08:34:21 -!- jix has joined. 08:34:50 * oerjan waits patiently for jix to as what he's waiting for 08:34:55 *ask 08:35:29 huh? 08:35:33 * immibis waits patiently for jix to reply to oerjan about what he was waiting for even though he knows the answer is that he was waiting for immibis to wait some more for oerjan to wait some more for immibis to wait some more. 08:35:56 * jix waits until this is over 08:35:58 * immibis waits patiently for someone to ask what he's waiting for. 08:36:09 * oerjan loses patience 08:36:19 immibis: what are you waiting for? 08:36:24 * jix explodes 08:36:33 * immibis was waiting for someone to ask what he was waiting for. 08:37:07 * immibis finds all of jix's bits and screws them together 08:37:11 stuck in an recursive loop, i see. 08:37:15 IRP stop waiting 08:38:03 IRP-ERROR 4: RESOURCE REAVAILABLE 08:39:22 who thinks the new zealand basketball team beating the australian basketball team, is more likely than the new zealand fencing team beating the australian fencing team? (ignoring the fact that i have no idea if either of those countries actually has a fencing team_ 08:39:33 IRP answer the question 08:40:56 IRP answer the question 08:41:17 IRP-ERROR 57: LOCAL GEOGRAPHIC MODULE UNAVAILABLE 08:41:52 who thinks that it is more likely that team A will beat team B at the basketball game, than that team C will beat team D at the fencing? 08:42:36 THE ANSWER IS: Purple 08:47:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:48:03 -!- ^_` has joined. 08:48:12 *beep* non-matching switch statement on line 12, character 6; possible cases are "basketball" and "fencing". 08:49:07 IRP-SUGGESTION: INTERPRETERS WITH IMPROVED GEOGRAPHIC MODULES ARE NOW AVAILABLE 08:49:52 IRP-ERROR 999378484292823: IRSSI IS UNKNOWN INTERPRETER COMPILER IRP...... 08:50:07 IRP-ERROR 13941234123123124252936242134: IRP-ERROR NUMBER TOO BIG 08:50:18 IRP-ERROR 801: No Error Occurred 08:51:42 IRP-CLARIFICATION: REFERRING TO ^_` 08:51:42 IRP-ERROR: TOO MANY IRP-ERRORS; REQUIRES MANUAL RESET; PLEASE RUN RESET COMMAND 08:52:16 IRP-ERROR: GreaseMonkey MISIDENTIFIED AS COMING RATHER THAN LEAVING 08:52:23 IRP-BUG: IN IRP-BUG 08:53:58 details: needs to be more specific. For more details, type IRP-BUG-INFO 1123 08:57:27 IRP-BUG-INFO 1123 08:57:54 IRP-BUG-INFO-RESPONSE (1123) For more details, type IRP-BUG-INFO 1123 08:58:52 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Easy as 3.1). 09:03:44 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 09:04:04 -!- jix has joined. 09:30:26 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 09:34:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:42:02 -!- kwertii has joined. 10:15:12 -!- SomeGuyAtHome has left (?). 10:55:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 11:00:53 -!- kwertii has quit (Client Quit). 11:33:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:38:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:10:34 -!- jix has joined. 13:22:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:25:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:33:13 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/80956 Emacs now edits videos. Millions of nerds patch GRUB support for it, set it as OS. 14:53:19 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 14:54:24 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:06:06 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:57:09 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:57:50 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 16:19:39 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:23:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:38:48 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:42:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 16:44:37 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:50:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:50:25 -!- jix has joined. 16:56:08 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:47:28 i can't get started on this report >_< 17:47:41 that is just fine 17:48:03 go to #irp and try... please somebody do my report, thanks 17:48:12 ... things happen. 17:48:31 ^___^ 17:52:21 Fa1r, hm? 17:53:17 Sgeo: how can i help? 17:53:33 What did you want w/ #irp ? 17:54:02 Sgeo: actually nothing. 18:05:54 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 18:18:31 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 18:50:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:55:22 ehird`: that's absolutely ridiculous 19:55:34 but then again, so are emacs users 19:55:45 RodgerTheGreat: :D 19:55:56 :) 19:55:57 i'm writing a text editor for emacs 19:56:00 it's an interesting platform 19:56:03 ;) 19:56:03 lol 19:57:06 i hear there is already a vi clone 19:57:28 neat 19:57:51 what about an emulator for the Editor Macros set for the TECO editor? 19:58:00 that editor was nice, it spawned an OS called emacs 19:59:03 one really has to wonder why GNU feels the need for things like HURD or Linux- they ought to just make emacs fully self-hosting and be done with it. 19:59:43 http://www.eskimo.com/~rstarr/poormfa/travesty2.html i hate having to port perl code to other languages. 19:59:47 having is a bit of a misnomer 19:59:48 i think it's implementing POSIX compatibility that holds them back 19:59:50 i'm doing this for fun :) 20:00:45 oerjan: which raises the question "how necessary is POSIX, anyway?". 20:01:06 it seems rather odd that POSIX is the one standard nearly all operating systems are trending towards 20:01:25 RodgerTheGreat: it sucks less than any other standard people can think of 20:01:30 (it still blows though) 20:01:39 * RodgerTheGreat shrugs 20:02:28 I would prefer to think of it as a "best effort thusfar", not unlike C. It's not optimal, but there isn't a fully acceptable replacement currently. 20:05:00 that seems to be exactly what ehird` said 20:05:20 :P 20:05:22 indeed 20:05:50 I'm implying they need to be replaced 20:06:14 which, I'm certain, is a rant you guys have already heard at least part of 20:12:36 i just finished porting that perl code 20:12:37 i feel dirty 20:15:21 Bah, bloody typical. 20:15:23 It doesn't work. 20:15:33 Does perl count as an esoteric language? 20:15:34 it should. 20:15:59 The topic of "standard" programs to implement in a new language came up a while back. What do y'all think of Towers Of Hanoi? 20:16:06 ehird`: it certainly *can* be 20:16:29 with good coding style regulations, you can make it a significantly less horrible language, though. 20:17:44 http://www.eskimo.com/~rstarr/poormfa/travesty2.html this counts as esoteric code i think 20:17:51 i ported it to python and it produces completely different output 20:18:34 looks kinda nasty 20:18:48 it's a simple algorithm you'd think it'd be simple 20:19:27 the translation in question: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192735145.html 20:19:30 by all accounts it SHOULD be the same 20:19:34 but it isn't 20:19:52 online version for easy testing: http://www.eskimo.com/~rstarr/poormfa/travesty.html 20:20:14 hello world, order 3, 250 chars of output, in that produces hello world over and over and over again 20:20:22 with my port it produces hel over and over again 20:22:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 20:22:27 fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony 20:22:33 :-) 20:25:04 * ehird` just asks in #python 20:39:11 oh em gee 20:39:23 gee oh em 20:40:16 woot, i think i got the travesty generator done 20:42:16 travesty generator? 20:42:19 keep it away from me 20:46:34 -!- ehird` has changed nick to disbot. 20:46:53 -!- disbot has changed nick to ehird`. 21:00:08 (oerjan) i think it's implementing POSIX compatibility that holds them back <<< you must mean PSO 21:00:10 *PSOX 21:00:16 oklopol: finally, you're alive 21:00:23 Wait, what? 21:00:27 * Sgeo has PSOX on highlight 21:00:35 that's sad 21:00:41 :P 21:00:59 Holds what back? 21:01:10 What, me having PSOX on highlight? 21:01:44 oklopol, hello? 21:01:49 hello! 21:01:58 oklopol: #esoteric-blah hello? 21:02:00 What were you saying about psox? 21:02:22 i have "porn" and "kiddie" on highlight 21:02:31 oh, yeah, i'll look 21:02:50 Sgeo: i said: (oerjan) i think it's implementing POSIX compatibility that holds them back <<< you must mean PSOX 21:05:56 -!- disbot has joined. 21:05:56 holds what back, and how can I help? 21:06:19 :)) 21:06:27 oklopol: check #esoteric-blah 21:06:30 it's working great :D 21:10:59 -!- disbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:11:28 -!- disbot has joined. 21:14:22 -!- disbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:14:35 -!- disbot has joined. 21:20:15 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:36:19 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:46:54 -!- disbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:01:34 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:08:00 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:14:32 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:25:25 -!- kwertii has quit (Remote closed the connection). 2007-10-19: 00:18:56 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 00:35:17 In the name of boredom, I have developed a new Brainfuck-based language. 00:35:23 I call it: :bf:+ 00:35:28 i see 00:35:30 explain 00:35:38 Adds variables, strings, and some shorthand. . . 00:35:41 +(10). 00:35:51 Newline, demonstration of shorthand. 00:36:02 :hello:"Hello, world!\n":hello:[>.] 00:36:14 Demonstration of strings & variables. 00:36:29 argh what was that saying about bf extensions again? 00:36:30 pretend i just said it 00:36:54 Like strapping things onto a skateboard to make a racecar? 00:37:09 yes 00:37:10 that 00:37:12 i just said it 00:37:50 What I do is more like strapping things onto a skateboard to entertain myself. 00:38:04 If I want a *serious language* out of it, I'd not start with Brainfuck. 00:38:18 Perhaps Glass. :p 00:39:00 Oh, it also adds comments. 00:39:34 {What's in here is guaranteed to never run. Yay!!! +-[]><.,} 00:40:10 nested? 00:40:12 {a{bc}} 00:40:24 Sure, why not? 00:40:33 Not exactly implemented anything yet. . . 00:40:38 what about {to do blah use command { etc etc} 00:40:39 that is not nested 00:40:42 but it has { in the comment text 00:40:46 :/ 00:40:53 Tricky. 00:41:09 Perhaps just use // to newline for comments instead. 00:44:05 ... 00:44:54 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:53:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:18:26 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:50:25 [-][Here's another popular comment format. +-[]><.,] 01:51:01 ttm: I wanted to provide such a comment without having a cleared cell convenient. 01:51:05 Yeah. 01:52:16 Usually ']' occur pretty often in a brainfuck program, and you can put a comment after any one of them without having to remember anything about program state... 01:52:26 True. 01:52:27 though you have to balance brackets within the comment. 01:54:22 Anyway, no reason not to add a comment format. The thing that bugs me is when people add a comment format as their ONLY language extension, and then call the language "brainfuck" :) 01:55:11 Indeed. 01:55:50 What annoys *me* is when people add features to Brainfuck that demonstrate signifigant stupidity & lack of creativity. . . 02:15:42 been there, done that 02:24:26 hAI! 02:31:07 bYE, sleepity sleepity -> 02:31:21 jeez 02:31:26 you're sleeping a lot more lately 02:32:27 are you having problems in your life? 02:39:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:39:48 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:17:02 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 03:17:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:42:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:49:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:12:55 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:13:40 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:07:06 -!- am4nda has joined. 06:20:25 -!- am4nda has quit ("Leaving"). 06:47:06 -!- GregorR-Win3 has joined. 06:47:08 Muahaha 06:50:00 no. 06:50:03 you win only once 06:50:45 cacopygialite 06:52:46 i wish i knew greek >_< 06:52:48 and latin 06:55:26 I'm on Windows 3.11 (in case you couldn't guess) :P 06:55:28 I have a bash shell. 06:56:29 bsmntbombdood: no, my life is perfect 07:06:19 -!- GregorR-Win3 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:08:50 -!- GregorR-Win3 has joined. 07:12:28 3.11 was nice, i remember playing with it for hours when i was a kid 07:12:48 just changing the color theme was something so cool i almost pooped my pants 07:23:03 But you didn't have a bash shell too X-P 07:24:06 how do you know! 07:24:39 True 07:25:04 Now, djgpp + rsxntdj = modern compiler w/ Win32s support ... 07:25:15 And Open Watcom = semi-modern compiler with Win16 support ... 07:25:29 Somewhere in this, something amazing is waiting to be uncovered. 07:26:30 definately. 07:27:48 -!- GregorR-Win3 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:28:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:39:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:26:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:37:06 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 10:01:04 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:04:10 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 10:11:10 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 11:56:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:06:35 !daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774 12:06:57 Sorry, the topic told me to /query EgoBot, and I didn't realise at the time that would mean nobody else could use the Underload daemon 12:07:16 there's the command to install it, anyway, if people want to use it in future 12:07:41 * ais523 is the sort of logreader who suddenly continues conversations that ended days ago with no warning 12:23:41 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:24:21 !ul (Hello!)S 12:24:25 Hello! 12:26:08 -!- jix has joined. 12:45:35 !ps d 12:45:37 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 12:45:39 2 immibis: daemon cat bf 12:45:41 3 oerjan: ps 12:46:14 I've rejigged the Underload daemon to output here now 12:46:37 i'm just surprised it's still #1? 12:46:57 well, presumably it doesn't change the number of a running process 12:47:14 so 1 was the first free process number 12:47:45 (by the way, my client is linking your comment to suggest you were referring to a channel called 1?) 12:48:34 why what a STUPID, STUPID client you have :P 12:49:15 I know, it's awful 12:49:34 As far as I can tell, it predates automatic auth and also I haven't figured out a way to get it to take logs 12:49:56 Feel free to CTCP VERSION me (as ever); you'll recognise the client's name, but it has a very low version number 12:50:25 i don't understand "predates automatic auth". Didn't the _original_ irc client have that? 12:50:37 Just for fun, here's the version number of the attached browser: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414 12:51:06 oerjan: if it did, it was more advanced than this client, or this client is really awful in trying to find options 12:51:22 I meant 'this client's UI is so bad I can't figure out how to do it' 12:56:38 i am wondering if the passwords is a case of a feature starting to be used again after a long period of being so rare that new clients stopped supporting them... 12:57:14 I hope the same happens with HTTP PUT 12:57:45 GET requests may have been all that were used before, but with wikis beginning to take over, that's part of the spec that's just crying out to be implemented in all modern browsers 12:58:09 (except IE, of course, which will implement something with vaguely similar functionality and entirely different syntax) 13:02:40 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:03:51 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 13:05:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:26:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:53:39 hahah that is clever, i never thought of this: 14:53:41 : NOT 0= ; 16:08:40 omg characters! 16:50:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:50:41 -!- jix has joined. 17:01:16 -!- SimonRC has joined. 17:02:36 -!- SimonRC has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:30 -!- SimonRC has joined. 17:08:02 -!- SimonRC has quit (Client Quit). 17:17:59 "djgpp + rsxntdj" 17:18:06 random combinations of letters day? 17:18:54 http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/ 17:19:00 http://www.google.com/search?q=rsxntdj 17:22:49 back 17:22:53 djgpp is a dos compiler 17:22:57 its a gcc port. 17:23:36 rsxntdj is Really Stupid Xabbreviation Name To DJ Jam 17:23:55 Um X-D 17:24:05 :D 17:24:08 rsxntdj is some garbage for DJGPP to make it compile for Windows. 17:24:25 More importantly, one of rsxntdj's supported targets is Win32s (unlike MingW etc) 17:30:56 forth is fun 17:31:01 (or should i say FORTH FUN) 17:31:05 Yes 'tis. 17:31:17 Or should I say it fun is yes 17:31:24 Something like that :P 17:31:30 i personally couldn't use it to develop real things right now (i'm not accustomed to it yet, it's still a bit alien to me) but it is really, really fun 17:31:34 i love the crazy compilation model 17:31:43 it's the most non-intuitive thing you could think of 17:32:15 Honestly, /me considers stack languages to be an excellent target of compilation, not so much an excellent type of language to write in :p 17:32:41 they're such fun though 17:33:52 : FAC DUP 2 <= IF DROP 1 ELSE DUP 1- FAC * THEN ; 17:34:00 ^ stupid factorial, but it looks fun :P 17:34:14 also, i don't think forth has fancy things like PRODUCT by default ;) 17:36:44 also, forth should always be written in entirely uppercase, contrary to some HERETIC'S opinions 18:16:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:35:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:55:36 -!- g4lt-mordant has changed nick to g4lt. 18:56:58 -!- g4lt has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 19:24:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:31:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:31:56 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:56:00 you know 19:56:22 No I don't. 19:56:24 an emacs-like project would get a lot further if it was started right from the top as a platform, albeit one biased to document editing 19:56:32 instead of starting out like a text-editor 19:56:36 it could even produce something decent 19:56:47 Yup. 19:56:59 hmm 19:57:02 i might have a go at that. 19:57:07 it'd be interesting. 20:01:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:06:01 i don't want to base it on lisp though :-) 20:06:17 ... brainfuckmacs! 20:07:00 ...no:P 20:07:20 * oerjan thought ehird` was saying brainfuckmas 20:07:30 that would be some holiday... 20:07:38 wow, er, i don't even WANT to know 20:10:28 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 20:11:49 hmm, it seems there are not many languages simple enough to be used on-the-fly for simple tasks (i.e. out of the coding context) and that are powerful enough to use for scripting it and also coding most of it 20:15:55 =) 20:16:58 is this the excel kind of "used on-the-fly for simple tasks" or the perl or haskell kind? (neither of the latter are simple) 20:17:09 the emacs-style, really 20:17:10 :P 20:17:14 for that matter, excel may not be either 20:17:25 in emacs, you use lisp very very often 20:17:36 (M-x kind of masks it, though) 20:19:47 i use python for *everything* 20:20:03 python's statement/expression distinction makes it kind of useless 20:20:15 you'd think, but no. 20:20:24 IF cond THEN ELSE blah 20:20:28 write that in one line of python. 20:20:30 it makes it suck, but it's the best i know anyway 20:20:32 then write me a nested if. 20:20:44 cond and or 20:20:48 remember, we can't have multiple lines: this is terminated by a return key, in a special line in the text editor 20:20:50 and that is a hack 20:20:55 #python will scold you for using it 20:20:59 and it gets really, really ugly for nesting 20:21:04 yeah, i know 20:21:09 but it works. 20:21:16 and that's *all* that matters 20:21:30 we're talking about quick on-the-fly coding here. 20:21:44 no, it is NOT all that matters 20:21:47 perl would work too 20:21:48 so would forth 20:21:51 it needs to be simple to write 20:21:54 without so many hacks 20:22:06 probably, it's not really a matter of language 20:22:08 it's about the ide 20:22:30 that makes no sense 20:22:32 if you need to write a file, save, compile, and run, i'm never gonna use it 20:22:59 if there's a quick interface where i can just write code and see the result, of course i'll use it for everything 20:23:08 be it lisp, python, perl, or whaddyahave 20:23:33 anyway, if there was something like python but with an easy syntax for nested if/elses/etc on one line 20:23:36 i would be using it already 20:23:39 i'd prolly use haskell more than python, since i like it better, but ghc won't let me copy / paste 20:24:12 from the "repl" 20:24:12 ghc isn't an ide. 20:24:15 uh 20:24:19 that's what your terminal does. 20:24:35 yeah, as i said, it's not a matter of language 20:24:37 anyway, haskell probably isn't suitable for one-liners to perform basic actions 20:24:43 :O 20:24:51 depends what you mean 20:25:13 it's unbelievably suitable for anything that doesn't require the IO monad 20:25:14 normally they will be state-laden 20:25:25 you would do something like: 20:25:32 select text within blah, copy it, delete it 20:25:32 etc 20:26:03 yeah, we need a dirty haskell. 20:26:24 :P 20:26:54 or a python with c-style nesting 20:27:00 hm 20:27:12 maybe python + block ender 20:27:26 except, no nice syntax to do it 20:32:07 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:34:17 anyone want to plug their favourite language for the idea? :-) 20:35:21 My favorite language is Python 20:35:24 Hi RedDak 20:35:40 Sgeo: please read conversations before replying to them... 20:35:45 you have pgup/pgdown keys. 20:35:58 :P 20:36:16 "python with c-style nesting"? 20:36:20 no 20:36:21 What does that mean?? 20:36:22 read all of it 20:36:27 not just 3 lines above 20:38:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:38:27 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:39:27 * oerjan points out that haskell has C-style nesting if you want 20:39:54 oerjan: hm 20:39:58 i can't imagine how that'd look 20:40:02 how would you express: 20:40:28 (in any way you'd like, probably the most haskelly way:) "if the document starts with 'blah', delete all occurances of 'blah'. otherwise, delete all occurances of 'foo'" 20:40:39 it seems like it'd be pretty ugly :| 20:44:16 main = interact $ \s -> if "blah" `isPrefixOf` s then removeAll "blah" s else removeAll "foo" s 20:44:30 unfortunately removeAll is not builtin 20:45:04 might be something in Text.RegEx 20:45:05 documents likely wouldn't be strings, though 20:45:30 there'd be possibilities for formatting info, graphics (embedded svg? maybe.), etc 20:45:31 interact pipes a file through as a string 20:45:35 (of course, not for code :P) 20:45:36 ah 20:45:37 cool 20:45:48 can also be a stream, too, right? 20:46:24 if by stream you mean a lazy, possibly infinite string 20:46:24 but yeah, i'm not sure i'd want to write the above quickly on one line just to do that to a document 20:46:35 it just doesn't seem to be suited to that 20:47:46 well if you are writing an editor in Haskell you would probably have another datatype and convenience functions for that 20:50:00 although embedded haskell is not really convenient yet 20:50:06 indeed 20:50:20 it strikes me as odd that there's not a language really suited to the purpose of this 20:50:30 you'd think similar embedding (although perhaps not as extreme) would be very commonplace 20:51:05 lua is a language dedicated to embedding 20:51:08 iirc 20:53:28 sure 20:53:31 but lua is kinda meh :/ 20:59:35 kinda meh too 20:59:52 :P 21:00:10 oerjan: python was the one accused of lacking that 21:00:17 oh 21:00:21 ehird` didn't know 22:00:17 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:02:34 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 22:15:49 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:16:15 -!- SimonRC has quit (Client Quit). 22:17:20 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:18:41 -!- SimonRC has quit (Client Quit). 22:18:47 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:35:16 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 22:36:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:40:33 * ehird` decides he hates textmate 22:40:36 i might try textwrangler 22:40:39 ??? 22:40:59 SimonRC: textmate = mac editor 22:41:06 Try Microsoft Write for Windows 3.11 22:41:14 GregorR: sounds appealing 22:41:14 That's what I do all my programming in. 22:41:15 ;) 22:41:25 does it have vi emulation yet? 22:41:35 a version of tetris, maybe? 22:41:55 GregorR: I hope you are kidding... 22:42:30 SimonRC: Error - sarcasm detector broken 22:42:33 Would you like it fixed? 22:43:28 CONGRATULATIONS! Your amazing new sarcasm detector is installed. We will now test it: I am the elite hacker, and I shall own your computer boxes.(BEEP!BEEP! SARCASM DETECTED!) 22:43:49 heh 22:44:01 he said it so striaght though... 22:44:04 the sarcasm detector is broken, it doesn't adjust for meta-levels 22:44:16 oerjan: what's your recursive sarcasm parsing depth? 22:44:23 no, that is a meta-sarcasm detector 22:44:36 no 22:44:40 new versions have an all-in-one system 22:44:40 Microsoft Write's file format has a small header, then the raw text, then all the formatting, so a small wrapper can allow any compiler to support it, and you can annotate your code! 22:44:57 BTW, Samorost rocks 22:45:07 it's an addon for your parser 22:45:19 GregorR: doesit? 22:45:35 how nice of MS 22:46:12 that ... completely and utterly does NOT remind me of a certain MS product 22:46:27 (I've been using Windows 3.11 on my laptop to discourage myself from goofing off in class recently :P ) 22:46:44 *boggle* 22:46:47 (Clearly it's working, since I can spout details about Microsoft Write's file format :P ) 22:47:03 which class? 22:47:08 Every class. 22:47:13 simpler solution: don't use a laptop 22:47:19 GregorR: i think vista does that just as well 22:47:34 SimonRC: Not a solution: Cannot organize notes or read own handwriting. 22:49:47 never stopped me... 22:50:31 nobody commented on my EXTREME VISTA BURN :( 23:11:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 23:14:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:17:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:17:35 three in a row... 23:17:46 ehird`: burn? 23:22:41 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:25:38 -!- r1k1` has joined. 23:25:41 -!- r1k1` has left (?). 23:38:50 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 23:39:09 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Client Quit). 23:39:16 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:43:03 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 23:43:54 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Client Quit). 23:48:28 * SimonRC goes to bed 23:48:45 night 23:51:05 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2007-10-20: 00:02:56 haha perl regexp's are fun 00:03:04 matches palindromes: /^\W*(?:((.)\W*(?1)\W*\2|)|((.)\W*(?3)\W*\4|\W*.\W*))\W*$/i 00:03:15 matches a well-formed infix arithmetic expression: /^(\d+|\((?1)([+*-])(?1)\)|-(?1))$/ 00:04:31 bleh 00:04:42 bleh what 00:05:08 a cop talking about another cop who died: "i pride myself on being a logical man, but i can't figure out why he died. the only thing i can come up with is that god had some different plan for him." 00:05:22 so much for being a logical man 00:05:30 i love the "god has a plan for X" arguments 00:05:32 it's comedy gold 00:06:07 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:07:23 -!- SomeGuyAtHome has joined. 00:08:01 (god has a special plan for YOUR MOM) 00:08:06 oh how hilarious i am 00:09:14 ehird`: i take it you're not too religious? 00:09:28 oklopol: atheist 00:09:52 and also completely unspiritual 00:10:54 likewise 00:11:30 ... you can be atheist and spiritual? 00:11:33 VERILY 00:11:35 GregorR: yes 00:11:42 GregorR: yes 00:11:46 GregorR: most new age-y people 00:12:05 i'm not sure what the exact meaning of "atheist" is 00:12:11 it works with both commonly used definitions of atheist: no god and no religious beliefs 00:12:18 i want an oed 00:12:20 yeah 00:12:24 me too 00:12:26 the real definition of it is basically "no god" 00:12:32 however when i say i am an atheist 00:12:38 i imply that i'm not, say, a buddhist either 00:13:07 this is obvious because if i was a buddhist i'd be meditating over the meaning of the word "atheist" and not talking online ;) 00:13:28 i never believed in a god, sometimes i don't even believe in past 00:13:31 it means lacking a theist belief 00:13:37 the present seems to exist 00:13:45 believe in past? 00:13:46 SomeGuyAtHome: /nick SomeCaptainObvious 00:13:46 wtf? 00:13:58 well when people say things like "sixties" 00:13:59 bsmntbombdood: spotlight of time belief thing 00:14:01 i.e. 00:14:08 What Gregor does instead of having silly religious debates is post this URL: http://www.codu.org/blog/?comment=20070628191650 00:14:09 "there is no time line, there is just the present, which morphs" 00:14:12 And then walk away :P 00:14:52 i'm an atheist because i don't claim myself to be a Santa Claus agnostic 00:14:55 nor a Tooth Fairy agnostic 00:15:03 indeed, not a Celestial Teapot agnostic 00:15:07 so why a God agnostic? 00:15:21 heh 00:15:31 i think we are all agnostic 00:15:37 in my personal view, all are stories made up by humans 00:15:37 Because Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are defined within the scope of our universe, and are therefore things we can reason about. 00:15:37 hmm, i think i'm closer to GregorR in this one 00:15:40 ie without spiritual knowledge 00:16:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:16:28 GregorR: um no 00:16:36 GregorR: santa claus travels at impossible speeds 00:16:43 and knows all about your personal life 00:16:49 ehird`: Hence why you don't believe in him. 00:16:53 I'm agnostic on santa claus and on the easter bunny too! you can't prove they're fake, that's my story and I'm sticking to it 00:16:56 well, perhaps it's more that i don't care about religion, what's the term for that? 00:17:04 GregorR: but that's not in the scope of our universe 00:17:07 GregorR: it's impossible 00:17:08 ehird`: He is defined as a component of this universe, but with properties you know to be nonsense. 00:17:09 oklopol: "sane" 00:17:16 ehird`: Hence, you disbelieve. 00:17:21 they even track santa at NORAD FFS 00:17:34 g4lt-mordant: yeah wtf is that shit 00:17:50 GregorR: same with god! 00:18:20 ehird`: God is not defined to be a component of the universe. Anything which could rationally be called a god must not only be beyond the scope of our universe, but beyond the scope of all universes. 00:18:48 okoko 00:18:53 GregorR: i just find no reason to be "undecided" on a fairy tale invented by humans thousands of years ago to control people 00:19:02 -!- fax has joined. 00:19:28 bot of you are going to be surprised when ooga-booga the subsaharan god of reincarnation makes you into dung bettles! 00:19:31 ehird`: Oh, I certainly disbelieve in every individual god created by humans, I'm just saying that the concept is not something it's reasonable to believe or disbelieve in, since it's not something that can be rationalized. 00:19:52 besides, belief in a god becomes superflouous combined with my beliefs (which are not founded in believing in things that are unmeasurable...) 00:19:56 i.e. there is no soul 00:20:02 if there is no soul, heaven/hell is impossible 00:20:08 as there is no "you" to go up there 00:20:14 and i am pretty sure brains don't disappear from corpses 00:20:27 ehird`: You're focused on a very specific definition of religion 00:20:27 therefore, any god would be restricted to, oh, killing of people with lightning bolts 00:20:36 now, personally, i see no reason to believe in a god doing that 00:21:03 His/her/it/flooglebahs existence becomes unneccesary 00:21:09 ehird`: say this is a simulation on a 8-dimensional computer somewhere, your reasoning won't apply. 00:21:18 ehird`: Why can't there be a god that's just running some big simulation and doesn't give a fuck about us? We're just the chemical reactions in that simulation. 00:21:23 Damn, oklopol beat me to the punch. 00:21:27 :) 00:21:33 3rd time we do that 00:21:38 in either case, belief in him becomes superflous 00:21:44 Yes, it does. 00:21:47 So does disbelief. 00:21:51 there's just no reason to believe in one, because nothing changes either way 00:21:57 Agreed. 00:22:04 Holding a disbelief is very different from just not believing. 00:22:33 sure, except once you know about something, and it's a "big" thing like belief in a diety is, you are basically forced into either belief or disbelief 00:22:46 That's nonsense. 00:23:04 You're allowed to acknowledge that you can't know. 00:23:21 sure, but as for the above reasons 00:23:32 i decide that heck, i don't have the energy to say "oh i don't know" 00:23:50 and because there are no implications, etc. i shall just live my life as if god does not exist 00:23:56 probably i'm right. but i'll never find out either way 00:24:34 You don't have the energy to hold no belief (a zero-energy situation), but you do have the energy to hold a negative belief (which ought to be based on evidence but is not)? 00:24:46 right, because next lifetime, you'll be a DUNG BEETLE and unable to think about it 00:25:01 g4lt-mordant: you give a convincing argument 00:25:51 GregorR: on another note, this looks hilariously fun http://grables.sourceforge.net/ 00:26:08 It is 8-D 00:26:16 Also, very wtfomgdeath 00:26:20 however i cant see a way to register, i guess i just start a new game right? 00:26:36 Yeah, you don't register accounts etc ... it's a really terrible piece of software :P 00:26:44 who wants a game? :D 00:26:55 I would, but I'm at work :( 00:28:11 oh well 00:28:15 i'll play with someone else :P 00:28:46 hey I'll play it 00:28:50 sure 00:28:57 what do I do? 00:29:02 to join 00:29:24 well, er 00:29:28 GregorR: you done broke it 00:29:33 fax turned into "yo" 00:29:37 ehird turned into "tuehird" 00:29:57 invalid password :| 00:30:11 fax: http://grables.sourceforge.net/libc.php 00:30:13 i remade it 00:30:15 ehird vs fax 00:30:17 password is 00:30:26 (i just /msgd you with it) 00:30:34 ok working now :D 00:30:38 I should actually make games expire after, say, a month X-P 00:30:55 haha this is getto 00:31:01 right, i am prepared to suck 00:31:03 Array 00:31:03 ( 00:31:07 i haven't played scrabble in ever 00:31:13 fax: scroll up 00:31:20 It says 'It's not your turn!' 00:31:28 GregorR: how do i close a file handle that's left open? 00:31:39 or anyone else. 00:31:43 fax: it's my turn... 00:31:49 hmm, i forgot how to play scrabble :s 00:31:51 you can do diagonals right? 00:31:56 No 00:32:01 aw 00:32:05 oklopol: close()? 00:32:15 GregorR: .close 00:32:32 hmm, in bash 00:32:41 Oh. Idonno :P 00:32:50 okay... well, the process is prolly open 00:32:56 but i don't wanna kill my python progs 00:33:05 since some of them are important to be kept on 00:33:11 um wow i don't know really any of the libc 00:33:14 let's think 00:33:15 argh 00:33:16 and... they're all called python 00:33:19 i have no goddamn i or e 00:33:30 oh 00:33:31 i have _s 00:33:47 so... could i like get the process id of anything that's keeping the file locked? 00:34:16 * ehird` makes turn, hopes it works 00:34:20 GregorR: it timed out... 00:34:22 oklopol: I think fuser can do that. 00:34:29 ehird`: AWESOME 8-D 00:34:30 its not responding... 00:34:32 how did i done break? 00:34:44 the whole site is down?! :| 00:34:49 lol 00:34:55 you used the magic word 00:34:55 fax: works for you? 00:34:58 haha 00:35:01 Um, it's working fine for me. 00:35:08 what do I reload this page or somthing? 00:35:15 fax: yeah... 00:35:19 but my FUCKING TURN timed out 00:35:23 so you're going to have to WAIT 00:35:32 GregorR: i inputted it as FOP__, is that right for FOPEN? 00:35:36 It's still your tur 00:35:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 00:35:51 lol 00:36:01 well that was a fun game 00:36:26 hmm, how do i kill in the terminal? 00:36:29 kill a process 00:36:30 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:36:43 whoops 00:36:44 anyway 00:36:45 I am a retard 00:36:48 i thought _ was wildcard 00:36:49 oklopol: kill 00:36:52 but, it's _ 00:36:52 haha 00:36:55 Heh 00:37:14 right let's try that again 00:37:15 i was afraid to do that, since kill does more serious killing in windows 00:37:30 What does it do in Windows? 00:37:42 hm 00:37:44 hmm 00:37:45 i am terrible with this 00:37:47 i think i need new tiles 00:37:49 * ehird` gets some 00:37:51 well visual basic xD 00:37:58 kills files 00:38:11 GregorR: lol this is terribly coded :| 00:38:16 hey fax 00:38:17 it's your turn 00:38:19 i used to use vba as an easy way to circumvent any protection 00:38:22 -!- SomeGuyAtHome has left (?). 00:38:26 on the school computers 00:38:37 ehird`: Pretty much, yeah. 00:38:37 somehow it was necessary to destroy them once in a while :< 00:38:46 O_o 00:38:51 there are no letters on the board 00:38:56 what a cracker genius i was... 00:39:05 fax: duh 00:39:06 look down 00:39:10 it says Your tiles 00:39:12 tells you them 00:39:17 you type into the board, they're text boxes 00:39:26 there are no letters on the board 00:39:27 meaning 00:39:32 yes, i skipped my turn 00:39:33 because 00:39:34 OH 00:39:34 ok 00:39:39 i couldn't do it with those tiles 00:39:44 GregorR: help meeeee http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p362214241.txt 00:39:46 :)))) 00:39:55 Sorry! LONG is invalid! 00:39:55 You've gained 0 points! 00:39:56 .... :/ 00:39:58 oklopol: kill -9 6789 00:40:01 oklopol: kill -9 00:40:02 fax: is that a libc function? 00:40:06 oh 00:40:07 -9 :O 00:40:08 alright 00:40:10 long isn't a libc function :P 00:40:14 oklopol: -9 means "-DIEFUCKYOU" 00:40:16 It couldn't be, it's a keyword :P 00:40:17 it kills no matter what 00:40:24 if kill -9 doesn't kill something, your system is b0rked 00:40:31 (you might already know this :P) 00:40:37 Well, not quite "no matter what" ... won't kill zombies 8-D 00:40:46 wtf yes it will 00:40:48 killall -9 zombie 00:40:55 "Zombie invasion: OVER 00:41:06 fuck 00:41:06 It's not your turn! 00:41:09 ... seriously though, kill -9 won't kill zombies. 00:41:22 srsly man 00:41:27 this is -the- most infuriating scrabble game ever 00:41:32 fax: its my turn 00:41:34 Hahahaha 00:41:36 you entered an invalid word 00:41:36 :P 00:41:57 if only there were a function called ope 00:41:59 no n :( 00:42:03 jesus christ 00:42:05 this game sucks 00:42:09 hahaha 00:42:10 Hahahahaha 00:42:12 doesn't it check that there's at least one possibly entry for it :P 00:42:15 * GregorR <3 libc scrabble 00:42:34 No manual entry for scrabble 00:42:34 i wish malloc was called maloc 00:42:42 dude I got printf 00:42:47 lemme start :p 00:42:50 fine 00:42:50 :P 00:42:57 ehird`: why? allocate has two llss 00:43:03 bsmntbombdood: i only have 1 l 00:43:04 :P 00:43:09 fax: done 00:43:21 bsmntbombdood: They're playing libc scrabble :P 00:43:21 You don't have those tiles! " ???? 00:43:31 what's scrabble? 00:43:33 fax: did you have enough for printf in Your Tiles? 00:43:34 I did previous turn >:| 00:43:36 bsmntbombdood: WHAT? 00:43:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble 00:43:51 WHAT WHAT WHAT 00:43:52 good grief 00:43:56 oh that game 00:43:58 I think I'm going to have a heart attack 00:44:00 wot's wiki, precious? 00:44:07 g4lt-mordant: stab stab stab 00:44:11 and libc as defined by who? posix? 00:44:17 bsmntbombdood: presumably 00:44:20 Naturalismo. 00:44:24 glibc, actually :P 00:44:36 glibc is a lot different than posix libc... 00:44:49 It's a superset, I'm just giving them a fair chance :P 00:44:57 fax: god damnit make a turn :P 00:45:00 check the dictionary if you have to! 00:45:13 god dammit 00:45:16 I moved 00:45:16 where does one find a list of all the posix libc functions? 00:45:29 bsmntbombdood: In POSIX, I'd imagine. 00:45:30 bsmntbombdood: posix spec 00:45:38 well duh 00:45:39 why bother? the site has a dictionary. 00:45:42 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:45:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:45:49 http://grables.sourceforge.net/libc.php?dict 00:45:52 but, you know... that's cheating 00:46:07 fax: skip 00:46:11 ?? 00:46:12 I moved 00:46:14 i'll just do goddamn "ABS" 00:46:15 oh 00:46:16 good 00:46:23 nice 00:46:36 You should actually feel pretty good about getting anything down, even just abs :P 00:47:11 damnit, i have "calloc" 00:47:18 but, shares no letters with fgets :P 00:48:16 GregorR: how does it know who's who? 00:48:17 ips? 00:48:23 what about two people sharing a router? 00:48:55 ehird`: Uh, by asking you who you are ... 00:49:11 oh 00:49:13 cookie-based 00:49:14 right 00:49:17 Yuh 00:49:24 There's no real security at all :P 00:49:30 You could easily take the other person's turn. 00:49:38 This was a project taking all of two hours to write X-P 00:49:43 Sorry! PRI_TF is invalid! 00:49:44 ????? 00:49:46 i might write my own online scrabble server 00:49:50 fax: _ is an underscore 00:49:51 not a wildcard 00:49:57 AAAArghhhhhhh 00:50:00 plenty of libc funcs have _s in, you see 00:50:00 Hahahah, how does that catch people X-D 00:50:01 yeah 00:50:03 that got me too 00:50:07 i tried FOP__ 00:50:09 for FOPEN 00:50:23 fop__("hewwo!") 00:50:38 haha 00:50:43 fop(); 00:50:46 fax: your turn 00:50:55 GregorR: MAKE "BACK" LINK TO THE GAME 00:50:57 PLEASE, I BEG YOU 00:53:08 ok your turn 00:53:18 ehird`: I swear it used to >_> 00:53:29 ehird`: Sounds like it's borkled a bit ... 00:53:36 no it links to libc.php 00:53:39 which is the menu 00:53:46 That's pretty much lame :P 00:54:02 oh 00:54:07 I missed a double word score :/ 00:54:31 fax: haha back in your face!! 00:54:32 your turn 00:54:46 argh! 00:54:49 how dare you :p 00:54:51 :D 00:54:53 sqrt is a good'n, I don't think I would think of that ... 00:55:02 GregorR: i added sqrt to his sqrt 00:55:02 :D 00:55:07 but over a double letter score this time 00:55:31 ehird`: I saw, pretty mean X-D 00:55:58 game -564. who do you want to be: "" or ""? http://grables.sourceforge.net/libc.php?g=-564 00:56:26 :P 00:56:30 hey 00:56:31 fax 00:56:36 get another SQRT in there 00:56:38 and you will be my hero 00:56:40 haha 00:56:53 imagine a scrabble board filled entirely with one word XD 00:57:51 Why is there no M on the board?! 00:58:00 because it hates you 00:58:17 If you can't malloc, alloca! 00:59:04 Or, maybe not ... that may not be a libc function >_> 00:59:08 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:59:20 what's the point of alloca? 00:59:27 It allocates on the stack. 00:59:36 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:59:36 i know 00:59:41 bah 00:59:43 i missed everything 00:59:45 what happened 00:59:46 why would you rather do that than on the heap? 00:59:58 bsmntbombdood: So you don't have to clean up after yourself. 01:00:11 hrm 01:00:26 so it's like a runtime-sized array 01:00:35 Yup, only not runtime-sized :P 01:00:40 Erm 01:00:40 huh? 01:00:50 Sorry, that was a retard moment. 01:00:59 Yup, it's a runtime-sized array. 01:01:06 ehird`: it seems to be your go 01:01:08 hey fax make a turn already :P 01:01:08 somehow.. 01:01:08 no 01:01:17 its yours 01:01:18 it says so 01:01:27 that means it neither of our turns 01:01:31 Says 'fax' from the sidelines. 01:01:42 >:| 01:01:43 fax: It doesn't refresh itself, by the way :P 01:01:43 It says 01:01:46 Because it RULES 01:01:47 It's not your turn! 01:01:50 but then I scroll down 01:01:55 fax16* 01:02:05 wtf 01:02:08 Are you logged in as ehird? :P 01:02:25 woops :p 01:02:33 ok I moved 01:02:37 Yaaaay back button going to the wrong place X-P 01:02:41 no I didnt :/ 01:02:51 Perhaps the worst piece of software I ever wrote :P 01:02:58 I hope so :P 01:03:10 hmf 01:03:15 I'm not good at user interfaces :P 01:03:21 I got invalid location trying to add F onto SQRT 01:03:44 Oh good, the logic's effed up too ^^ 01:04:19 woo :D 01:04:25 double word score 01:05:13 fax: i hijack-reversed your function, dude 01:05:14 :P 01:05:19 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:05:28 WTF 01:05:30 IT DISAPPEARED 01:05:36 lolol 01:05:42 I put ITOA on your O 01:05:46 WHY IS IT GONE? 01:06:07 Because itoa isn't in glibc? 01:06:27 ... 01:06:27 shit 01:06:29 fuck. 01:06:43 fax: make a turn, quick, i want my vangeance :P 01:07:01 (That's when you get vengeance on someone from the comfort of your van) 01:07:10 hahaha 01:07:13 yes! 01:10:10 damn 01:10:11 your go 01:10:48 damnit 01:10:50 if i had an i 01:10:53 i'd have unlink 01:11:16 oh em gee 01:11:31 if i had another L, i'd have calloc with triple word score 01:12:41 ok i'll finish off tomorrow 01:12:43 bye :) 01:13:01 ok see you 01:13:02 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:18:02 receptive anal sex! 01:18:33 do you think that's overboard for a geography report :/ 01:20:54 no 01:21:38 yay my lib now produces correct(ish) chords 01:22:06 just a bit of trimming to get the wave ends to stop clicking and it's the coolest ever 01:22:20 chords? 01:22:21 oh music 01:23:15 "Choosing a partner who tested negative instead of an untested partner reduced the relative risk of HIV infection" lolduh 01:24:13 WHOAH 01:24:14 SLOW DOWN 01:24:45 70% of people with genital herpes got it from their partner when they had no signs or symptoms of an outbreak. 01:25:05 Which means of course that 30% of people with genital herpes got it from their partner when they had OPEN SORES ON THEIR GENITALS 01:27:41 i was tested for chlamydia once 01:27:49 ...:D 01:27:56 that was pretty relevant to share 01:28:09 hmm, god it's late 01:28:33 perhaps i should do some sleeping -> 01:28:40 or... should i 01:28:47 i'll think about this for a while 01:29:05 the wave sounded better than it looked :P 01:29:38 basically i'm back to square one, but... no biggie 01:38:29 synthesizer 01:38:29 ? 01:39:32 i'm kinda making a synthesizing library 01:39:48 although that's just part of the idea 01:39:50 what language? 01:39:55 i'm mainly making a composition tool 01:40:00 python 01:40:30 code plz 01:40:47 i will not show the code until it produces a perfect wave 01:40:57 well, good enough wave 01:41:14 addition of waves currently fucks it up 01:41:26 so you can just play single notes 01:41:41 so it doesn't really do anything yet. 01:41:53 nothing, done in a nice modular manner. 01:42:13 and obfuscated using my whitespaceless coding style. 01:46:40 OK WHO WANTS TO PROOFREAD MY PAPER 01:47:22 i can ejacu.. evaluate it 01:47:34 (err.. haha?) 01:47:42 anyways, i wanna read it 01:49:06 http://pastebin.ca/743028 01:50:01 can you start a sentence with a number in english? 01:50:19 ...dunno 01:50:24 does a subsentence start with uppercase after ";"? 01:50:45 "AIDS is a problem because it makes people die." :P 01:51:00 "million People" 01:51:14 third word capitalized for some reason 01:51:40 hmm, why am i correcting this, i prolly have no idea. 01:51:49 i'll just read and enjoy 01:55:17 (26s19, 31e8) what are these? 01:58:21 eyes... closing... okokoko 01:58:23 ------------------> 02:10:09 oklopol: latitude and longitude 02:10:21 and my grampa is here so i have to go humor him 02:23:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:24:48 he's senile 02:24:59 ...he bought me a watch, the same one he bought me 6 months ago 02:29:25 :/ 03:00:37 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 03:00:37 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:11:43 lol 03:11:56 nursing-home icepack: a diaper soaked in water 03:13:22 that's some high-tech shit 03:40:30 -!- fax has quit. 03:42:15 Verily. 03:49:54 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:00:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:28:56 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 04:39:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:40:57 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:41:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:41:09 -!- Arrogant has joined. 06:21:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:33:46 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 06:39:12 -!- puzzlet__ has joined. 06:39:48 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:44:01 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:07:59 -!- immibis has joined. 07:11:23 IRP -VERSION 07:11:30 IRP cancel that order. 07:11:34 ./irp --version 07:19:54 ./irp --version 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:20:04 ./irp --version 08:20:11 ./irp helloworld.irp 08:21:47 Bad %s. 08:22:01 by %s you mean command, filename, or immibis? 08:36:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:49:54 ./irp helloworld.irp 08:50:03 Bad %s. 08:50:20 er...%s? don't you mean command, filename, identifier, or immibis? 08:50:34 i think it's an abbreviation for immibis 08:50:59 Bad %s.",szImmibisStr); 08:51:04 yes it is immibis. 08:51:08 ./irp --version 08:54:03 unknown file or system error, directory, information, beep beep, system error, file, system error, system error, system error,"); CallWindowsAPI("CrashThisProgram");"""""""""""""""""SYSTEM ERRORWAERFQ 08:54:54 i think the "beep beep" is sort of revealing 08:55:13 ? 08:55:45 EgoBot, IRP --version 08:56:09 bash: File or file name. 08:56:12 it's just too hilarious to be a random bug 08:56:20 ok. 08:57:21 !bf_txtgen unknown file or system error, directory, information, system error, ");CalLWindowsAPII*(CrashTE$SRTESRTSRTFAWERASAARestorePoint?CVWEFRWWindows 08:57:46 IRP --VERSION 08:58:23 bf_txtgen error: String too long. 09:01:02 !ps 09:01:05 3 immibis: bf_txtgen 09:01:07 4 immibis: ps 09:01:31 5 immibis: bashmyheadin 09:01:35 1301 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>+++++++.-------.>---.+++.>+.<<+++++++++.---------.<-.>>>---------.+++.<<--.>>----.<<<.>>+.<++++++.<.>+.>++++++++++.<.>-----.<--------------.++++++++.<.>>>.<--..<++.>.<<++++++++++++.------------.>-----------.>>++++.<.<+.>>------.<++.>++++++++++++.<<+++++++++++++.+++++++.<++++++++++++.------------.>>-----------.>-.<<--- 09:03:45 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Give a man ). 09:35:00 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:35:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:47:36 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 10:13:11 -!- jix has joined. 10:42:06 o 10:42:15 a 10:43:05 my grandmother is senile too, she usually asks me whether we've met before everytime i see her 10:51:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:08:52 -!- Nucleo_ has joined. 11:23:38 -!- Nucleo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:28:10 -!- Nucleo_ has quit (Success). 12:23:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:24:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:24:27 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:27:05 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:28:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:31:28 oklopol: heh, my grampa at least says i "look familiar" 13:45:40 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:47:58 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:48:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:07:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:14:25 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:46:25 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:46:35 -!- jix has joined. 17:19:04 Am I the only guy in here with nonsenile grandparents? 17:19:14 (and, for that matter, greatgrandparents) 17:19:20 Yes. 17:19:27 (Probably not.) 17:19:35 (But I wanted to say yes.) 17:19:50 XD 17:20:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:21:04 pikhq, mine aren't senile, they're deead 17:34:09 Fair 'nough. 17:35:58 "lisp is a slow, dead language that is difficult to read. and it's for gays. because gays lisp." damn, how could i argue, especially coming from someone called "cockbotherer" 17:36:03 * ehird` is powerless 17:36:25 what channel is that? 17:36:32 reddit 17:36:33 :P 17:36:35 comments 17:36:38 oh. 17:36:50 he's mostly right, though, except that many gays don't lisp. 17:36:58 haha 17:39:15 Lisp can be fast, It's not dead. It's not terribly difficult to read. And, it's for Knights of the Lambda Calculus. ;) 17:40:16 LISP STACK-LANGUAGE CRAZY < . 1 ok 17:40:18 :P 17:40:29 * ehird` has been messing around with crazy forth for too long, methinks 17:41:52 :crazy:[:lisp:+:crazy:-] 17:42:08 no 17:42:25 i said (< lisp (crazy stack-language)) 17:42:32 or, for infix folks, lisp < crazy stack-language 17:43:26 Or, for odder folks, cmp %lisp %crazy_stack_language 17:43:44 what the fuck is that 17:43:48 ms-dos batch? 17:48:10 Psuedo-assembly. 17:58:26 -!- g4lt-mordant has changed nick to g4lt-sb100. 18:01:17 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 18:01:46 -!- jix has joined. 18:29:39 omg coffeeeee! 18:39:35 i can tell 18:39:54 pikhq: ((L|$C{SL}$)) 18:39:56 apl! 18:45:34 -!- importantshock has joined. 18:49:36 pikhq: <-- in the "lisp < crazy stack-language" language 18:52:47 concatention is composition! 18:52:55 bsmntbombdood: :P 18:53:13 WHAT IF I HAVE AN UNCLOSED "???? IT WON'T WORK IN FACTOR 18:53:16 (ok, but it will in forth.) 18:53:54 forth is kinda ugly 18:54:38 it's interesting, though 18:54:44 have you seen the jonesforth implementation? 18:54:51 it's a tutorial on writing a forth and an implementation in one 18:55:05 huh? 18:55:06 it's one GNU as file and one forth file 18:55:08 both are very tiny 18:55:16 it walks you through what everything does 18:55:19 and it's really, really suprising 18:55:21 "one GNU"? 18:55:23 forth requires /so little/ 18:55:25 bsmntbombdood: GNU as 18:55:35 you are nonsensical 18:55:36 i.e. it doesn't use intel syntax 18:55:39 GNU assembler 18:55:43 that is not nonsensical 18:56:10 i thought about writing a forth 18:56:44 http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt (part one, in asm-land), http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.f.txt (part two, in just-got-into-forth-land) 18:56:54 it's really worth a read all the way through if you're interested in forth systems 19:29:22 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 19:33:38 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 19:34:25 -!- cmeme has joined. 19:40:59 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:50:33 -!- bartw has joined. 19:51:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:55:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:57:53 crap, and then i needed lookahead 19:58:05 bartw: nice out of context quote 19:58:18 hardly a quote 19:58:29 trying to make a statemachine for a parser 19:59:30 :P 19:59:40 lookahead is the easy way, i could also merge two statemachines, and see which branch terminates first 20:00:18 do the non-easy way 20:00:19 :D 20:00:26 that would fit the channel 20:01:21 but i rather not, the code is allready an unreadable handwritten statemachine, but atleast it works, for now :) 20:04:27 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:39:33 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 20:52:10 anyone alive? 20:53:06 maybe 20:53:43 Schrödinger's oerjan? 20:54:13 ouch, i was observed! 20:54:20 luckily i came out alive 20:54:26 you can never be sure 20:54:33 * pikhq observes oerjan again 20:54:56 recollapsing the wave function with the same observable changes nothing 20:55:10 put that wave function in your pipe and smoke it 20:55:31 i don't smoke 20:55:59 there is a universe in which you smoke 20:57:02 * pikhq sticks oerjan in a box with some radioactive material that triggers a cyanide release 20:57:02 potentially 20:57:32 do alternate universes exsist before being observed ? 20:57:43 there is a universe where they do 20:57:46 and a universe where they don't 21:01:18 http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic/series.php?view=archive&chapter=10104 21:01:38 (strip 4) 21:02:24 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:24:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:33:01 -!- importantshock has quit. 21:41:52 -!- importantshock has joined. 21:50:55 -!- oerjan has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:50:55 -!- g4lt-sb100 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:51:13 #esoteric - the only channel so small netsplits have no effect save 2 people 21:52:21 LMAO 21:53:21 apparently, uzbek girls are "very beautiful" 21:54:07 and they ride donkeys instead of horses 22:02:22 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:03:38 -!- galt has joined. 22:04:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:08:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:30:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:40:07 -!- importantshock has quit. 23:21:01 -!- calamari has joined. 23:41:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:50:46 -!- immibis has joined. 23:51:01 IRP --VERSION 23:51:13 0.5 23:51:30 IRP < helloworld.irp 23:51:42 denied 23:51:53 system error system error, unknown file or directory helloworld.irp, system error 23:52:03 IRP < stopBastardizingIrp.irp 23:52:19 IRP.language = LANGUAGE_ENGLISH; 23:52:21 IRP system("cat < out > out"); 23:52:47 IRP copy the copy of copy into copy 23:54:17 stopBastardizingIrp.irp: Unknown file or directory 23:57:35 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 23:58:09 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Client Quit). 2007-10-21: 00:01:12 !irp helloworld.irp 00:01:15 helloworld.irp: Unknown file or directory 00:01:24 !ls 00:01:27 bf/, glass/, linguine/ 00:01:34 !ls glass 00:01:37 dice.glass, hangman.glass, urls.glass 00:01:45 !irp glass/dice.glass 00:01:47 glass/dice.glass: Unknown file or directory 00:01:48 ? 00:02:02 !ls d 00:02:04 Erm 00:02:05 /bin/ls: ./files/d: No such file or directory 00:02:06 !ps d 00:02:09 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 00:02:11 2 immibis: daemon cat bf 00:02:13 3 GregorR: ps 00:02:28 OK, it's not a daemon, so it's just a user command :P 00:02:40 Probably just takes its input and adds "Unknown file or directory" 00:02:45 * immibis slaps GregorR with a rainbow trout 00:02:47 !irp fddfashfdfdsafds 00:02:51 fddfashfdfdsafds: Unknown file or directory 00:02:57 !irp asdfjkl; 00:03:01 asdfjkl;: Unknown file or directory 00:03:20 !irp immibis: you suck. irp 00:03:23 immibis: you suck. irp: Unknown file or directory 00:03:33 !irp fatal error: helloworld.irp 00:03:37 fatal error: helloworld.irp: Unknown file or directory 00:03:39 !usertrig show 00:03:41 No such user trigger: 00:03:45 er? 00:03:56 !help 00:03:59 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 00:04:01 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 00:04:03 !help usertrig 00:04:05 Use: usertrig Function: manage user triggers. may be add, del, list or show. 00:04:16 !usertrig show irp 00:04:19 (irp): bf ,[.,]+++++++++++[>+++++>+++>++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>.>---.+++.+.<+++++++++.---------.<.<+++++++++++++++++.+++.>>--.-------.<.>>.+++.<<.>-.<<.>>>.<+.--.>++.-----.+++.+++++++. 00:05:15 Is it just me, or are there new EgoBot features? 00:05:23 it's just you. 00:05:32 Ah. 00:05:34 this feature has been around for a long time. 00:06:43 usertrigs predate daemons. 00:06:51 They turned out to be useless, so I added daemons :P 00:06:54 Then nobody used usertrigs. 00:06:59 er, i did. 00:07:08 +much 00:07:19 Huh. 00:07:21 back 00:07:25 And you never removed usertigs. 00:07:35 !irp foo 00:07:39 foo: Unknown file or directory 00:07:46 Hmm. 00:08:42 GregorR: egobot is a veritable hodgepodge, isn't it? 00:08:52 Yup 00:09:16 lots of unused stuff 00:09:17 :P 00:09:19 !help 00:09:23 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 00:09:25 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 00:09:39 !ps 00:09:40 Daemons are fairly used, the filesystem is never used but I stole the concept from EsoBot so eh *shrugs* 00:09:43 3 ehird`: ps 00:09:48 Esobot? 00:09:50 !ps d 00:09:53 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 00:09:55 2 immibis: daemon cat bf 00:09:57 3 ehird`: ps 00:10:14 !undaemon 1 2 00:10:15 :D 00:10:17 * ehird` is evil 00:10:20 !daemon cat ,[.,] 00:10:25 !undaemon cat 00:10:29 Process 2 killed. 00:10:29 oh 00:10:31 !undaemon ul 00:10:33 Process 1 killed. 00:10:34 !undaemon cat 00:10:37 mwahaha 00:10:40 i am evil for no specified reason 00:10:51 !daemon cat +[,[.,]+] 00:10:55 !ping pikhq 00:10:59 pikhq: No such nick/channel 00:11:07 !ping yadayadayada 00:11:08 !ping ehird` 00:11:11 ehird`: No such nick/channel 00:11:13 yadayadayada: No such nick/channel 00:11:19 !ping EgoBot 00:11:21 !usertrig show ping 00:11:23 (ping): bf ,[.,]+++++++++++[>+++++>+++>++++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>-.<++++++++++++++++++++.>>+.<.>++++.++.>.+++++.<<.>-------.-----.<<+++++++++++++++++++++.>>++.<+++++++++++++++.<.>>>.<<<--.>>+++..> ---.<--. 00:11:25 EgoBot: No such nick/channel 00:11:27 hah 00:11:30 its like the irp daemon 00:11:33 yes 00:11:34 !ping #esoteric 00:11:37 #esoteric: No such nick/channel 00:11:38 but with a different message. 00:11:43 !help usertrig 00:11:47 Use: usertrig Function: manage user triggers. may be add, del, list or show. 00:11:48 actually, my client does that. 00:11:49 These commercials advertise that they have 25MPG highway and say you can feel really smart because your gas mileage is so good. My car gets 40MPG. WTF universe do I live in. 00:11:52 [12:11] ->> #esoteric :No such nick/channel 00:12:10 !usertrig list 00:12:13 Triggers: decode encode irp ping urls 00:12:17 !urls x 00:12:26 !usertrig show urls 00:12:27 !encode WhatDoesThis Do? I wonder? 00:12:27 (urls): glass {M[m(_u)(URLs)!(_i)I!(_i)l.?(_u)u.?]} 00:12:31 1192921948-inahdkjjaaagclaenheekjafbc 00:12:35 !encode WhatDoesThis Do? I wonder? 00:12:39 1192921956-jonefedoneaknkiibhbopmllgd 00:12:40 ? 00:12:42 !decode 1192921956-jonefedoneaknkiibhbopmllgd 00:12:45 Error: bad message. 00:12:50 lol 00:12:52 !decode 1192921956-jonefedoneaknkiibhbopmllgd 00:12:53 !decode jonefedoneaknkiibhbopmllgd 00:12:55 Error: bad message. 00:12:57 Error: bad message. 00:13:00 !decode YOUR MOM 00:13:03 Error: bad message. 00:13:05 HA HA HA HA HA. 00:13:12 !usertrig show decode 00:13:15 (decode): linguine file://linguine/decode.lng 00:13:16 !usertrig show decode 00:13:17 (decode): linguine file://linguine/decode.lng 00:13:23 !cat linguine/decode.lng 00:13:25 Huh? 00:13:26 linguine? 00:13:29 ? 00:13:29 what is linguine? 00:13:31 !help 00:13:31 !help 00:13:35 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 00:13:36 obviously a language. 00:13:37 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 00:13:39 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 00:13:41 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 00:13:42 !show linguine/decode.lng 00:13:43 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Linguine ah 00:13:45 No such process! 00:13:54 HELP, I'm being spammed to death 8-O 00:14:12 GregorR: you. write a cat command 00:14:18 or implement it as a daemon, which would be hardcore 00:14:22 i did. 00:14:24 !ps d 00:14:27 1 immibis: ps 00:14:29 cat is easy. 00:14:31 maybe not 00:14:34 immibis: No, to cat a file from the filesystem. 00:14:36 does it cat FILES, though? 00:14:39 !daemon cat +[,[.,]+] 00:14:42 no 00:14:48 that's what i want 00:14:49 !cat hello. 00:14:51 immibis: You need to tell it what language it is X_X 00:14:52 so we can cat stuff on the file system 00:14:53 Huh? 00:14:57 oh 00:15:01 i always make that mistake :P 00:15:12 !daemon cat bf +[,[.,]+] 00:15:16 !cat file://linguine/decode.lng 00:15:19 file://linguine/decode.lng 00:15:27 GregorR: suggestion 00:15:28 Thought that might work :P 00:15:30 add a < command 00:15:32 and a > command 00:15:34 well, not command. syntax 00:15:38 which will do as in shells 00:15:46 !cat !cat this also means that interpreters which can also take files and urls 00:16:02 can be much simplified 00:16:05 as it's all done through < and > 00:16:06 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:16:12 maybe even a | pipe if you want, but that's hardcore ;) 00:16:13 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:16:15 what to do with file://linguine/../../../../../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd 00:16:21 immibis: it's sandboxed 00:16:22 duh 00:16:58 * immibis wonders why gregorr made egobot quit 00:17:08 WHY YOU KILL EGOBOT 00:17:08 it didn't 00:17:09 it crashed 00:17:27 foooooooof 00:17:32 * GregorR goes to work on Plof3 for a bit :P 00:17:38 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 00:17:42 glargh 00:17:50 GregorR: i will give you $39742397234 if you implement < 00:17:54 $239847239872398234 extra if you do > 00:17:59 and $293847293482698723648724628934623986986987236498234623874 for | 00:18:02 :D 00:18:21 * immibis implements < > and | for free because ehird` only offered that to gregorr 00:19:00 can you change egobot? :P 00:19:05 no 00:19:24 i could download the source and change it and send it to gregorr. 00:19:29 heh 00:24:39 what's < > | ? 00:24:46 piping! 00:24:51 oh 00:24:54 !cmd <(file or url) 00:24:57 Huh? 00:25:02 !language no longer has to do it itself 00:25:05 Huh? 00:25:06 and custom programs can have it too! 00:26:15 !cat < file://bf/../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../etc/password 00:26:17 Huh? 00:26:25 immibis: i already told you how stupid that is 00:26:28 egobot is sandboxed 00:26:36 the filesystem is completely seperate from the normal fs 00:26:41 as in chroot'd? 00:26:49 iirc it's not even a real fs 00:26:57 it's a wrapper around some files on an fs 00:27:06 but, the EgoBot running is chrooted afaik 00:27:29 * SimonRC goes to bed 00:31:28 * bsmntbombdood bumps SimonRC's keys 00:33:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:36:13 !ping pikhq 00:36:15 Huh? 00:36:32 !stfu immibis 00:36:35 Huh? 00:38:26 !ping bsmntbombdude 00:38:29 bsmntbombdude: No such nick/channel 00:38:36 !ping bsmntbombdood 00:39:03 bsmntbombdood: No such nick/channel 00:39:10 stfu 00:40:06 haha i just realised 00:40:09 that actually DOES ping 00:40:10 XD 00:41:13 no it doesn't! 00:41:18 !usertrig ping show 00:41:18 yes 00:41:19 Huh? 00:41:20 it does 00:41:24 nick: BLAH 00:41:27 !usertrig show ping 00:41:28 and clients highlight on nick 00:41:29 (ping): bf ,[.,]+++++++++++[>+++++>+++>++++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>-.<++++++++++++++++++++.>>+.<.>++++.++.>.+++++.<<.>-------.-----.<<+++++++++++++++++++++.>>++.<+++++++++++++++.<.>>>.<<<--.>>+++..>---.<--. 00:41:30 so it does ping them 00:41:32 if unintentionally 00:41:34 no. 00:41:41 umm yes 00:41:47 it just says nick: No such nick/channel. 00:41:53 yeah 00:41:56 and clients will highlight it 00:41:58 because nick is in it 00:42:00 some clients. 00:42:03 mine doesn't. 00:42:39 your client sucks 00:42:39 :/ 00:43:39 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 00:51:06 He was so offended by your client's lack of highlighting, he left in a huff. 00:51:32 actually it because i kept annoying him. 00:57:16 !immibis stfu 00:57:19 Huh? 00:57:36 Holy Underwear, Human! 00:58:31 bsmntbombdood, please type the following: !daemon bsmntbombdood bf +[,[.,]+] 00:58:38 in a query 00:58:40 with egobot 00:58:56 !daemon immibis bf +[,[.,]+] 00:59:11 !immibis stfu 00:59:13 stfu 00:59:44 it has to be in a query between me and egobot, or it shows up wherever it was created 01:00:04 ok, NOW !immibis sends a message to me. 01:00:26 !immibis Sure 'bout that? 01:00:41 yeo 01:00:43 yep 01:00:49 [13:00] Sure 'bout that? 01:06:01 !bsmntbombdood hello 01:06:03 Huh? 01:06:07 !help 01:06:11 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 01:06:13 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 01:25:37 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:39:08 IRP SHOW THE IRP MANUAL 02:20:16 'sup, everyone? 02:20:26 immibis: go to hell 02:20:40 the manual is long 02:20:57 the manual includes the entire english language 02:20:59 hmm 02:21:06 how long would a manual for english be? 02:22:05 if there are 50,000 words, (roughly), and we assume the manual is in BNF or something, about 50 pages for grammar and the rest would fall into vocab 02:22:09 do you mean IRP go to hell? 02:22:19 !daemon cat +[,[.,]+] 02:22:32 english isn't context free so it can't be BNF 02:22:33 about the size of an unabridged dictionary with some additional pages 02:22:36 hm 02:22:40 dang- that's true 02:23:30 i meant the manual for the command IRP, as in how to invoke it. 02:24:25 IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP GO TO HELL 02:28:36 Except that proper IRP is English. 02:34:45 GregorR: a large subset of English. 02:35:12 A large and unpredictable subset of English :P 02:37:17 fair enough 02:38:13 An undefined subset of English. 02:38:41 Nah, it's defined, just based on factors you can't know. 02:39:10 You know, I wonder if a context-free subset of English could be made. 02:39:38 pikhq: oh, certainly. It really depends on how much you want to be able to express. 02:39:49 Oooh. 02:39:58 It'd probably just be sort of clumsy to talk in. 02:40:05 for the purposes of conventional programming, you could make one fairly easily. 02:40:22 I want a (potentially useless) English in YACC. ;) 02:40:40 "Add x to y" is probably easy to do context-free. 02:41:28 my guess is that you'd end up with something that looked an awful lot like COBOL. 02:41:39 XD 02:42:39 Or ORK. 02:43:12 probably an ungodly mix of the two. 02:43:28 especially if it's invented in this channel. :S 02:54:13 :) 02:54:27 ORKBOL, here we come! 02:54:41 Or maybe just CORK? 02:56:02 IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP GO TO HELL 03:01:44 That expression- you keep saying it. I don't think it means what you think it means. 03:01:49 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:02:18 firefox just told me "Oops: Firefox cannot load this page for some reason" 03:02:39 sweet 03:02:41 Those exact words? 03:02:45 sounds like firefox 03:02:50 it either means to say "IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP SAY IRP GO TO HELL" or to say "IRP IRP IRP IRP IRP" and go to hell. 03:03:01 actually, i typed in about:neterror into the title bar 03:03:14 but that won't stop me sending it to www.worsethanfailure.com 03:04:35 my interpreter module won't parse expressions that use more than one level of parentheses because I don't care enough 03:05:00 the same goes for recursive statements or anything repetitive 03:05:15 when did the daily what-the-fuck become the daily worse-than-failure? 03:05:25 no idea. 03:05:37 it still abbreviates to WTF though. 03:06:11 bsmntbombdood, about a year agot, give or take 03:06:35 I think dailywtf.com still works though 03:06:48 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 03:07:22 and also one where AVG Antivirus told me that it was out-of-date just after it updated itself. 03:07:27 it does. 03:08:02 worsethanfailure.com even loads ads from syndication.thedailywtf.com 03:25:08 IRP (goToPlace (getPlaceFromList (getPlaceList "Places not in this world") "Hell")) 03:25:36 [15:25] [NickServ PING Reply] : 1 minute 58.906 seconds 03:25:36 guess something must be up with my client today 03:44:52 http://sexualidad.wordpress.com/2006/04/17/sexo-en-grupo/ , yay studies about sex 03:49:09 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 03:49:12 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:51:26 hot damn, DFAs are fun 04:07:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:13:35 dumb french assholes 04:26:10 Deterministic Finite Automaton 04:26:30 What are you doing on #esoteric if you don't know that expansion :P 04:27:03 * immibis wonders what he's doing on #esoteric as he didn't know that expansion 04:27:44 i do know that expansion 04:33:32 I didn't think of it right away. 04:33:40 I was getting assraped in FreeCiv, though. 04:34:56 That's my experience with FreeCiv too. 04:35:13 That's the first time I've lost. . . 04:35:17 In 4 years. 04:35:26 what's freevic? 04:35:46 A free software Civilization game. . . 04:36:04 pikhq: Yeah? Well grep 'Gregor Richards' `find ~/freeciv/src -type f` 04:36:05 :P 04:37:31 I salute you. 04:37:39 Also, the hard AI cheats. 04:37:47 I'm truly, truly convinced that it cheats. 04:39:42 GregorR: You may wish to know this. . . 04:39:48 Doubt it! 04:39:53 $ grep 'Gregor Richards' `find . -type f` 04:39:53 $ 04:40:15 OK, I don't know if any of my code actually survives :P 04:40:32 Not actually contributed since 1.14.2? 04:40:51 1.14.1 IIRC 04:41:14 Well, there's been a rewrite since then. . . 04:41:42 Well, that explains that :P 04:41:52 I haven't played it in a while, I'm frustrating awful at it :P 04:42:21 -!- galt has changed nick to [[g4lt]]. 04:42:25 I'm usually good at it. . . 04:42:49 Although the hard AI has convinced me that largepox rules ought to be the default. :p 04:43:06 * pikhq is used to playing with 3 cities. . . Producing about 500 bulbs/turn. . . 04:47:38 i wonder if solving sudokus (or similar game) is turing complete 04:48:20 What exactly would the act of solving a game being turing complete *entail*? 04:48:27 Capable of being solved on a Turing machine? 04:48:32 no 04:48:39 The game itself *being* a Turing machine? 04:48:41 the solver being the turing machine 04:48:45 yes 04:50:36 -!- [[g4lt]] has changed nick to [[g4lt]]-somethi. 04:50:46 a CAPTCCHA, if you will 04:50:46 [16:45] * pikhq is used to playing with 3 cities. . . Producing about 500 bulbs/turn. . . <--- what? 04:51:17 What, don't play Civ? 04:51:28 immibis: they are part of a perverted sex-cult 04:51:35 ok 04:51:35 immibis: that's part of their disgusting lingo 04:51:50 -!- [[g4lt]]-somethi has changed nick to g4lt-sb100-away. 04:51:57 immibis: sexual deviants like him are dangerous to society 04:52:09 A bulb is the unit of scientific research in FreeCiv. . . 04:52:30 -!- g4lt-sb100-away has changed nick to [[g4lt]]. 04:52:39 ok 04:52:40 translation: "my sex-cult is a danger to YOUR CHILDREN!!" 04:52:47 It's also an unsafe sexual toy for anal fetishists *shrugs* 04:54:12 i've been thinking that paraphilias are just sexual orientations 04:54:36 XD 04:56:11 males who are androphilic aren't diseased...so why should males who are pedophilic be? 05:03:50 this is an instance where the lines between disease, disorder and natural genetic variation become very fuzzy. 05:04:48 yes 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:42:01 IRP DIVIDE ZERO BY ZERO 08:55:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:58:10 goodnight 08:58:13 IRP DIVIDE ZERO BY ZERO 08:59:08 IRP (CrashProgram (GetCrashMethodByName "DivideByZero") (GetCurrentProgram) "thisistehpasswordtocrashtehprogram") 08:59:17 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Some folks ). 10:29:06 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:48:13 -!- [[g4lt]] has changed nick to glt-experienced. 10:48:23 -!- glt-experienced has changed nick to g4lt-experienced. 11:16:20 -!- jix has joined. 11:17:35 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:36:23 -!- oklopol has joined. 11:38:46 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 11:55:10 bsmntbombdood: Sudoku can't be Turing-complete because it is finite. 12:01:00 -!- oklopol has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"). 12:06:40 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:21:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:35:54 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 12:37:58 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:50:03 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:59:27 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:07:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:03:33 -!- kxspxr has joined. 15:03:38 -!- kxspxr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:03:47 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:19:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 15:36:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:47:13 Snow. :D 15:47:24 crap snow 15:47:41 15:51:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:53:22 ... 15:53:28 what 16:27:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:43:04 -!- RedDak has joined. 16:43:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:43:32 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:46:29 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:46:39 -!- jix has joined. 17:39:56 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 17:49:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:50:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:51:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:52:23 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:52:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:56:15 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:57:46 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:09:48 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:12:07 does anybody use gutsy gibbon? 18:13:42 Certaintly *someone* does. . . 18:13:43 Just not me. 18:13:51 no 18:13:53 0 people use ubuntu 18:13:55 in the world 18:15:54 i mean here... i have a little crazy stupid problem with the windows list applet... 18:24:19 SimonRC: turing complete without unbounded 18:24:45 SimonRC: ? 18:26:53 pikhq: how much do you have? 18:27:01 pikhq: there's barely a dusting on the ground here ;( 18:27:11 no snow here 18:27:12 :) 18:27:15 I'd guess somewhere between 1/4" to 1/2". 18:27:19 Not much, really. 18:27:25 it's how you use it 18:27:35 my contact near denver tells me 4 inches 18:27:48 Well, the Steelers game ought to be interesting, then. 18:27:53 what's that? 18:28:06 Steelers @ Broncos, 6:15PM today. 18:28:10 ... 18:28:19 What? 18:28:20 oh, football? 18:28:23 Yeah. 18:29:17 playing around with stack-based languages is dangerous to the mind... i'm actually considering factor for my next project 18:29:40 Playing around with obfuscating C is pretty dangerous to the mind, as well. . . 18:30:01 you consider obfuscated C for your next project? 18:30:08 job security, i guess 18:30:36 I'm in high school. Coding's just a massive game ATM. ;) 18:30:47 ;) 18:30:53 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bubble.c And my, what a fun one. 18:30:59 haha wow, imagine an online game based on coding 18:31:01 that would be odd 18:31:39 oh em gee i'm in high school too 18:31:47 gosh, what a coincidence 18:31:59 pikhq: now do quicksort 18:32:00 ;) 18:32:20 ;) 18:32:42 without recursing 18:32:43 :D 18:33:23 Good idea. 18:33:51 keep lines to 72 characters, and keep it 4 lines or less, so it fits into a sig 18:34:07 extra points for being gcc-only and requiring crazy compiler flags 18:34:21 (you could probably squeeze a lot of the program into flags, knowing gcc...) 18:34:25 * pikhq takes a look at his sane quicksort implementation 18:34:34 I always assume GCC. . . 18:34:47 foo?({goto g;}):({goto h;}) is so much fun. ;) 18:34:49 hmm, if you specify gcc flags though you either need to have it 3 lines so you can fit gcc flags on the last line, or be able to fit a comment into a 4-line block 18:35:32 but - if you can fit a non-recursing quicksort, with the compiler flags (if any) needed to compile it included, in 4 lines or less where a line is 72 characters, then i am amazed 18:35:37 i don't think it's possible :P 18:35:57 Obviously, I'll need to choose a really, really simple pivot algorithm. . . 18:36:06 Hmm. 18:36:12 This could be trickier than I though. 18:36:27 the more flags are required the more fake-points you get :P 18:36:48 I don't think it's possible, with the non-recursing requirement. 18:36:57 if the flags specified require a certain shell to work properly, you get infinity points 18:36:59 :P 18:37:02 hmm 18:37:09 6 lines, then 18:37:12 at 80 characters per line 18:37:17 that gives you some more space :P 18:37:30 It's the non-recursing requirement that makes it tricky, I fear. 18:37:56 ok, then just make it tail-recursive :P 18:38:02 (bam! just-as-hard requirement substituted!) 18:41:39 ehird`: an online game based on coding, eh? 18:41:46 ever heard of Koth.org? 18:42:01 RodgerTheGreat: that's a corewars-alike right? 18:42:07 that isn't really what i was thining :P 18:42:20 hm 18:42:26 more like an MMO or something? 18:42:33 something like that 18:42:36 which would be hilarious 18:42:37 Screw it. 18:42:42 "collect the magic gem of printf!" 18:42:46 I'll just do an obfuscated quine. 18:42:50 I've had some thoughts about it 18:42:59 but collecting commands sounds retarded, I must say. 18:43:04 ;) 18:43:08 pikhq: pff ;) 18:43:11 ok you can recurse 18:43:20 but then 72 characters and 4 lines restriction comes back in 18:43:21 it'd need to be something more like Uplink 18:43:37 ehird`: what's he doing, punching these on cards? 18:43:57 RodgerTheGreat: putting them in ~/.sig, obviously 18:44:02 ah 18:45:29 pikhq: you are of course allowed to use bad practices like old-style definitions 18:45:39 func(a1,a2) instead of int func(int a1, int a2) 18:46:37 bonus points for anything involving comparisons or complex math performed directly upon pointers 18:46:44 it'd be awesome if there'd be a game where each level is a shell, and you need to kinda find out what you can do in it and hack your way into whatever the point of the current level is 18:47:09 RodgerTheGreat: bitwise operations on pointers for mega points 18:47:24 or the goal could always be to crash the system :P 18:47:26 oklopol: there are a few iirc 18:47:29 oh 18:47:38 oklopol: uplink is only tangentally related to that but there are games basically totally like that 18:47:43 maybe not as flexible as you'd like though 18:47:50 can i see one? 18:47:54 ehird`: Of course. 18:48:00 pikhq: :D 18:48:33 ehird`: do you know a name? 18:48:41 nope 18:48:42 q(s)char*s;{ anyone? 18:48:43 wikipedia 18:48:53 pikhq: pff you can get that shorter 18:49:00 why not make it operate on ints? 18:49:01 How? 18:49:11 q(l)int*l;{ 18:49:14 shorter 18:49:17 Then I have to convert the command-line argument to ints. 18:49:22 Which takes space. 18:49:30 oh, i didn't say you had to do command-line arguments 18:49:32 . . . Or I can just cast it. 18:49:33 but ok then :P 18:49:35 YES 18:49:36 cast it 18:49:37 :D 18:49:49 well, i guess casting is bigger, though 18:49:50 For more WTF-ness. :) 18:49:53 Not really. 18:49:55 fun: 18:50:01 *Implicit* casting. :D 18:50:06 mwaha 18:50:07 yes 18:50:10 main(c,v)char*v;{...} 18:50:18 no need to specify the type of c, it's default int :-) 18:50:19 fun 18:50:29 :) 18:50:36 i'm not sure the final ; is vital there 18:50:37 might be 18:50:39 ah probably 18:50:43 since the literal syntax for arrays/structs 18:50:50 We can check. :p 18:50:58 :D 18:51:34 hmph, ehird` is such a fun-ruiner 18:51:38 it'd be extra-funny if you could compact it to three lines without either " or ' (one but not both) 18:51:49 then you could put the compiling command completely in the sig :D 18:52:02 (well, 3 and a half lines, really, since you have the rest of the first one) 18:52:11 that would be really hard though 19:11:10 I've almost succeded. 19:11:15 Somewhre, I have a segfault. 19:11:20 :( 19:11:24 gdb! 19:11:59 It's fairly amusing to see what indent makes of it, though. 19:12:30 haha 19:12:34 show me! :D 19:12:38 (the indent-ed version that is) 19:12:57 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/quick.c 19:13:14 haha 19:13:31 int *\ns; 19:13:35 that makes no effing sense :D 19:13:40 then again we all know indent is retarded 19:13:55 whoa, uh, you're calling strlen on s 19:14:04 And? 19:14:04 why don't you take length as an extra perameter 19:14:09 then you can have: 19:14:25 g[n], l[n], p = (n / 2)... 19:14:27 it'd be shorter 19:14:28 True. 19:14:38 and, it's just two extra chars in the definition 19:14:44 since you don't have to specify the type sa int 19:15:01 and q(1[v],strlen(1[v])) is still pretty short 19:15:08 overall, it'd be much shorter and much less readable :D 19:15:37 also 19:15:38 char **v 19:15:40 not char *v 19:15:41 for main 19:16:29 I forgot one thing. . . 19:16:34 what? 19:16:45 (BTW, the char *v instead of char**v was the segfault's cause) 19:16:47 Output.\ 19:17:01 puts(q(1[v],strlen(1[v])) 19:17:07 you get a newline free, too 19:17:08 :) 19:17:42 . . . And now it segfaults. 19:17:52 gdb to the rescue 19:17:56 (alternatively, show me the new code) 19:18:00 oh, wait 19:18:03 I only added puts. 19:18:05 what type does q return 19:18:16 a NEW pointer, right? 19:18:17 Unspecified. 19:18:18 or an array? 19:18:23 no i mean what does it return in practice 19:18:24 I need to do a memcpy. XD 19:18:32 thought so 19:18:46 Or output in q itself. 19:18:58 nahh 19:19:02 cause then q wouldn't qsort 19:19:04 it'd qsort-and-print 19:19:12 . . . Right. 19:19:34 so does it work? :D 19:19:40 Or strdup. 19:19:51 strdup is shorter 19:19:53 go for it! :P 19:20:01 And a nice little memory leak. ;) 19:20:05 heh 19:20:14 this does do ascii-sorting for commandline args right? like qsort adb -> abd 19:20:17 Yeah. 19:21:10 is it finalized? 19:21:15 how big is it with 72 char lines? :) 19:21:19 Odd. 19:21:24 It's *still* segfaulting. 19:21:28 With the puts. 19:21:32 well 19:21:35 show me the current code 19:21:39 strdup(s) would *surely* copy s. . . 19:21:48 i might be able to help 19:22:00 Uploaded. 19:22:21 indented or normal? ;) 19:22:28 Indented. 19:22:33 heh 19:22:39 It's still weird, but it's easier to edit. 19:22:53 s[n / 2] 19:22:54 (n / 2)[s] 19:23:00 you're wasting space trying to be clever 19:23:05 I know. 19:23:11 well, isn't that pretty silly? :P 19:23:13 If I don't fit the space bounds, I'll get rid of that. 19:23:22 you get extra points for smaller code ;p 19:23:57 x = 0, i = x, j = 19:23:57 (i ^= i) 19:23:57 isn't that equiv. to x=i=j=0? 19:24:10 Yes. 19:24:11 :) 19:24:24 sheesh, this isn't obfuscation, it's golf :P 19:24:58 x=(i=(x=(j=0))); or x=0,i=x,j=(i^=i);? 19:25:42 My version, by my count, is the same length. . . 19:25:46 But more WTF-y. 19:26:07 x=0,i=x,j=(i^=i) 19:26:07 x=i=j=0 19:26:13 you have duplicate x= 19:26:16 and you don't need the prens 19:26:19 *parens 19:26:53 x=i=j=0; doesn't compile. 19:27:10 wha? 19:27:11 And the parens wouldn't help. 19:27:14 i'm pretty sure it does 19:27:17 why doesn't it 19:27:25 int x=i=j=0;. 19:27:26 ;) 19:27:44 ahhh 19:27:55 aern't ints 0 by default? 19:27:59 i mean, its unportable 19:28:00 but... 19:28:10 In a function, no. 19:28:14 give it a try, you could reduce it to: x,i,j 19:28:17 i'm pretty sure they are 19:28:21 at least with default gcc 19:28:21 No. 19:28:40 Believe me, they're not 0. 19:28:54 If they're declared *outside* a function, they are, though. . . 19:29:32 gogogogogogo 19:29:34 global rangers! 19:30:57 Now, do you know how that segfaults? 19:31:08 nope but i will in a few minutes 19:31:09 brb. 19:36:06 -!- g4lt-experienced has changed nick to glt-mordant. 19:36:14 -!- glt-mordant has changed nick to g4lt-mordant. 19:39:19 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 19:41:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:42:00 ok 19:42:03 when i say a few minutes 19:42:05 i mean ten 19:42:33 pikhq: well how about this 19:42:34 return 1[s] ? s : 0; 19:42:37 the first line of q 19:42:43 all the other code is, uh, not executed. 19:43:04 Shit. You're right. 19:43:12 ahahahahahahaha 19:45:37 http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/otcc/ ok, this is awesome :-) 19:45:52 i now have an urge to write a small c compiler not obfuscated but compact 19:46:07 Which means there is *still* a segfault. :( 19:46:20 pikhq: use gdb damnit!! 19:46:21 Caused by puts. 19:46:25 I will. . . 19:46:26 hm 19:46:28 yeah 19:46:29 use gdb 19:48:37 The fuck? 19:48:42 ./a.out cb 19:49:00 i don't have a c compiler on this system (stuck on windows atm) 19:49:02 what does it output 19:49:06 It calls q, then gets to "1[s] ? ({return s;}):0;". . . 19:49:09 And returns. 19:49:16 that's the first statement in q 19:49:18 i told you that 19:49:24 anyway 19:49:28 indent shows it as 19:49:30 wait 19:49:31 I changed that statement so that it doesn't always return. 19:49:33 of course 1[s] is true 19:49:38 is 'c' true? 19:49:38 yes! 19:49:42 so, it runs return s 19:49:47 so q is just returning your input 19:49:55 Dammit. Need !1[s], don't I. XD 19:50:02 orrr just: 19:50:07 Switch it around. 19:50:10 1[s]?0:({return s}) 19:50:11 yes 19:50:12 but 19:50:14 why are you doing that 19:50:25 Hmm. . . 19:50:32 i mean... what's the point? 19:50:33 That's a good question. 19:50:45 remember 19:50:52 s[1] will just segfault, mostly 19:50:56 why? because it's int* 19:51:06 if you q(0, { }) 19:51:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:51:10 s[1] -> BOOM anyway 19:51:15 so, just check length for 0 19:51:26 I want it to return when n>=1, not when s[1]==NULL. 19:51:49 what is n? sorry, i have not analyzed the code in depth 19:52:19 n is the length of the array. . . 19:52:27 Or, at least, should be. 19:52:28 right, right 19:52:30 that's what i meant 19:52:39 "so just check length for 0" 19:54:28 Shouldn't x[s] ? test for NULL? 19:54:42 err i guess 19:54:49 i thought length would be 0 on empty string 19:56:40 I think the bit about int*s rather than char*s is causing *this*. . . 19:57:33 And now I started something *completely different* into a segfault. 19:57:50 4 puts (q (strlen(v[1]),1[v])); 19:58:03 That line, before q gets called, is causing a segfault. 19:58:07 . . . Oh. 19:58:11 oh what 19:58:12 set args abc 19:58:13 Duh. 19:58:18 ...... 19:58:20 sifg. 19:58:21 *sigh 19:59:08 And now my recursion is done wrong. 19:59:13 q(l). XD 19:59:17 XDE 19:59:18 *XD 20:01:49 Interesting. . . 20:02:00 q(3, "c") gets called. 20:02:09 do you subtract from length each recurse? 20:02:20 :) 20:02:23 I do strlen with recurse. 20:02:31 right, well don't i think 20:02:33 just subtract manually 20:02:42 (gcc 3.4.4 good enough to compile this? I assume so :P) 20:02:44 (Bloody cygwin) 20:04:08 (yes) 20:04:13 (I hope) 20:04:54 not there 20:05:13 ? 20:05:23 ihope 20:05:43 heh 20:06:52 Now to figure out how q(3,"cba") calls q(1,"\0x01") and q(1,"c"). . . 20:07:49 Although it's easy to see how it segfaults. 20:08:10 That first line's return s;? Yeah, s gets freed in that return. ;) 20:08:33 hah 20:08:39 * ehird` presses Next >, hopes cygwin server doesn't suck 20:08:42 Now, I've just got a fucked up quicksort. 20:08:53 hmm, 150kb/s 20:08:55 not bad 20:09:04 (fucked up, as in "returns 'c\0x01' for 'cba'") 20:09:11 * ehird` is installing cygwin on this machine out of frustration 20:09:17 i'll compile and debug your code soon, pikhq ;) 20:09:32 (right after laughing at xeyes working on windows) 20:10:12 Latest version uploaded. 20:10:40 * ehird` wonders how big an x11 binary is 20:10:55 thank god i'm getting rxvt-unicode though 20:10:59 i am getting tired of cmd 20:12:27 cygwin 30%, not to obad 20:22:24 * pikhq thumbtwiddles, refusing to work on it for a while 20:22:39 :P 20:22:46 i'll be more help when cygwin installs 20:26:21 DAMNIT! 20:26:25 I closed it by mistake... 20:26:35 and lost all the package selections :'( 20:28:03 that's - ominous 20:28:12 :( 20:28:16 * ehird` goes through the whole list again 20:28:20 thankfully! it doesn't have to redownload. 20:28:24 it saves all the files it's downloaded. 20:28:28 but... i have to remember WHAT i wanted.. 20:29:05 i guess that's a good rule in general: always remember what you want 20:29:17 * ehird` hunts down where cygwin1.dll was 20:29:24 it crapped out on that at some point too 20:30:47 ok, WTF 20:30:59 cmd tab completion - and cygwin setup - finds c:\windows\system32\cygwin1.dll 20:31:01 but it's NOT THERE 20:31:13 wtf, notepad sees it 20:32:49 ... 20:33:01 yeah. 20:33:07 it isn't in explorer's list or `dir` 20:33:13 yet setup.exe sees it, and so does notepad 20:33:17 and del claims Could Not Find 20:33:22 lolololololololololol. 20:33:25 windoze. 20:36:04 wild guess: maybe it's a hidden file? 20:36:22 del removes hidden files and i have hidden files to show in explorer 20:42:56 finally 20:42:56 fixed 20:43:00 now to remember which packages i did 20:43:07 pikhq: soon, soon, i'll help ;) 20:43:39 :) 20:44:02 i wish cygwin would look BEFORE installing all that crap though 20:48:05 gogogogogo install 20:53:37 on to post-install, pikhq 20:53:46 i shall be gcc&gdb-helpering you very soon :P 20:54:26 bah, dtrace FTW 20:54:35 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:54:41 that's not the point, i mean just cygwin :P 20:54:49 woot 20:54:50 installed 20:54:55 w00t. 20:54:55 * ehird` starts rxvt-unicode, hopes 20:55:29 well, just bash first 20:55:30 to test 20:55:45 test@f6b2c69 ~ 20:55:45 $ gcc --version 20:55:45 gcc (GCC) 3.4.4 (cygming special, gdc 0.12, using dmd 0.125) 20:55:46 woot! 20:55:58 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:57:02 hmm 20:57:07 urxvt won't run. 20:57:23 nor does any x11 app 20:57:24 wait 20:57:26 did i start x11? 20:57:48 answer: no 20:57:50 lol am dum 20:58:25 XD 20:58:41 Any reason for Cygwin having GDC? 20:58:48 gdc? 20:59:08 the d compiler? 21:00:41 Yeah. 21:00:52 because it has software 21:00:52 :P 21:00:53 woot 21:00:54 xeyes runs 21:01:56 * ehird` gets himself some of dat urxvt runnin' 21:02:21 YOU ARE TALKING :OOOOOOOOO 21:02:36 yes 21:02:37 i am? 21:03:33 that is all. 21:08:31 jesus christ 21:08:34 god damn windows 21:08:37 its frozen up the start menu 21:08:41 so i'm talking blind 21:09:01 kill'd explorer 21:09:49 now 21:09:53 time to make an urxvt shortcut 21:11:57 gosh, cygwin is ugly 21:11:59 and hacky 21:19:07 bah 21:19:29 i'm currently suffering without it 21:19:41 i need scp 21:19:56 * ehird` asks in #cygwin how to make the shortcut 21:22:36 http://www.yale.edu/ypu/blog/ninja1.JPG 21:22:40 LOOK FEMALE NINJA 21:23:40 hot. 21:24:14 not really. 21:25:04 shirt ninja 21:28:40 But she's an *RMS* groupie. 21:28:44 You sure you want that? 21:29:10 copyleft ninjas? 21:29:11 i'd do rms 21:29:18 bsmntbombdood: oh god 21:29:29 you know what? i hate you 21:29:29 :P 21:29:36 oerjan: Reenacting xkcd. ;) 21:29:43 why? because rms loves me more than you? 21:29:47 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Portrait_-_Denmark_DTU_2007-3-31.jpg sexy rms! 21:29:55 XD 21:30:53 OH DAMN 21:30:56 * bsmntbombdood changes his pants 21:31:00 lmao 21:31:14 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Wikimania_stallman_keynote2.jpg 21:31:46 he could stand to lose some weight 21:32:41 If he cut his hair & bear, he'd probably lose a good 20 pounds. :p 21:32:45 s/bear/beard/ 21:33:19 this is all academic, rms is a crazy hobo and would kill you for even suggesting that he is not perfect 21:33:20 ;) 21:33:34 fine, s/weight/paunch/ 21:33:48 because cutting his hair and beard would make him not rms 21:34:01 i think that would be a good thing 21:34:03 :) 21:39:40 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:41:37 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:41:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:43:34 ehird`: Any ideas? 21:44:09 pikhq: asking in #cygwin 21:44:15 then i can get urxvt 21:47:33 woot 21:47:34 i did it 21:48:09 pikhq: okies here goes 21:48:14 w00ts. 21:48:24 sorry for, heh, taking 2 hours 21:49:25 ok 21:49:28 your problem seems to be 21:49:30 actually 21:49:32 your problem is 21:49:37 is that q has a type of int, by default 21:49:40 so, when it returns the string 21:49:43 it returns (int)string 21:49:49 and then puts(an_int) is called 21:49:57 gcc just told me this when i compiled it. 21:51:36 n>2?0: ({return strdup(s);}); does not do what you think it does 21:51:43 you want: (n>2)?0: ({return strdup(s);}); 21:51:54 right now it is: 21:52:02 n > (2 ? 0 : NEVER EXECUTED) 21:52:05 -> n > 0 21:52:06 -> nop 21:52:30 at least, i think so, pikhq 21:53:10 ok, you are doing something wrong with l and g 21:53:18 since they become things like "0K\020ac^\200|{j\020@" 21:53:27 pikhq: i doubt any of that is helpful, but :) 22:00:00 I know something is wrong with l and g; that much is obvious. :p 22:05:23 back 22:05:25 heh 22:05:27 ok, let's see 22:05:56 x[s] is just checking the first character isn't 0, so i can safely assume the first block is being executed... let me see... 22:06:13 p is half-way through the string, the pivot... 22:06:33 x <= p 22:06:33 if we are earlier than the pivot in the string, ... 22:06:38 ok, that's not fucking up obviously :P 22:06:54 er, wait 22:06:57 if this is less than the pivot 22:06:59 right, got it 22:07:09 BTW, that q returns an int doesn't matter. . . The call to puts makes it basically puts((char*)(int)(char*)"foo");. ;)' 22:07:10 pikhq: you mean: if x[s] <= p 22:07:23 . . . Oh, duh. 22:07:26 That would do it. 22:07:31 lololololololol 22:07:33 ;) 22:07:42 i'll make that change in my copy so You Don't Have To 22:07:51 That makes it output ac instead of abc. ;) 22:08:08 right, i think it's because of the \0 at the end of the strings 22:08:15 strip it somehow, so that n is actually the length of s 22:08:56 oh, also... 22:09:04 you aren't clearing out g[n] and l[n] to 0. 22:09:09 you should zero them out 22:09:16 memzero if i am not mistaken 22:10:12 *That* is a signifigant issue. 22:10:24 Heisenbugs will abound because of that mistake. . . 22:10:26 which? the \0 on the string or the non-zeroing-out g and l 22:10:33 heisenbug 22:10:34 i like it 22:10:43 Non-zeroing-out g and l. 22:10:47 thought so 22:11:08 upload a new version its a major enough change after that =) 22:11:32 Now, what's a good esoteric way to add in bzero? 22:11:53 just do memzero(ptr, size) 22:12:00 bzero, not memzero. 22:12:09 I want it esotericy, though. 22:12:14 ok 22:12:38 bzero(bzero(g,n)&&l,n) 22:12:38 :P 22:12:56 hm 22:12:59 bzero is deprecated 22:13:05 why not just memset(ptr,0,n) 22:13:51 Deprecated is even more cause for it. ;) 22:14:05 oh come on, esoterica yes but we don't want to make this break in the future ;) 22:14:15 Too late. 22:14:23 blargh ok :P 22:14:25 My function definitions are already depricated. 22:14:30 hehe 22:14:31 new version@ 22:15:08 BTW, void value not ignored as it should be for your suggestion. ;) 22:15:31 bzero((bzero(g,n)&&l)||l,n) 22:15:34 of course 22:15:36 why use & and |? 22:15:38 er 22:15:39 && and ||? 22:15:44 you could probably use & and | 22:15:46 bzero returns void. 22:15:49 argh 22:15:50 damn 22:15:51 well 22:15:56 fit some bitwise pointer arithmetic in there 22:15:58 :-) 22:16:31 Memset, however, returns void*. ;) 22:17:09 MWAHAHA :D 22:17:12 yes yes yes 22:17:31 I'll use both and some bitwise stuff. ;) 22:17:45 (um, does this still fit in 4 72-character lines?) 22:17:59 Um, dunno. 22:18:29 i'll compress the current version to see 22:19:22 Still a Heisenbug, though. . . 22:19:31 cba, sorted, is apparently bac. 22:19:46 And acb is a segfault. 22:19:58 Uploaded the new one, though. 22:20:12 let me tell you something 22:20:16 run in gdb and step over 22:20:22 That's my plan. 22:20:24 when a nested q call is made 22:20:31 you will see that, the strings have loads of garbage 22:20:33 in the argument 22:21:06 pikhq: good news 22:21:07 it fits 22:21:09 Not now. 22:21:34 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1193001671.html 22:21:39 please ignore the automatic indesntation... 22:21:47 I'm getting just q(1, "c") and q(2, "ba") called. 22:21:53 ok 22:22:00 well 22:22:07 wait!1 22:22:08 i know!! 22:22:18 s/(n>2)/(n>1)/. . . 22:22:19 when yu copy to the two arrays 22:22:25 you don't copy the whole thing 22:22:26 so 22:22:30 they won't have \0 in 22:22:31 BUT 22:22:33 they are passed to q 22:22:35 which calls strlen 22:22:54 The behavior you're trying to explain does not *exist* here. . . 22:23:08 solutions: 1. pass i and j instead of a strlen 22:23:19 ./a.out cba sorts right. 22:23:34 Everything else. . . Segfaults. 22:23:35 gdb'ing. 22:24:22 cab works 22:24:26 it sorts to acb though 22:24:38 I'm getting infinite recursions. 22:24:57 Which is causing the segfault. 22:25:51 ok, just change 22:25:54 q(strlen(l),l) to: 22:25:57 q(i,l) 22:26:00 and q(strlen(g),g) 22:26:00 Although I must salute my system for going through at least 25473 recursions. 22:26:06 to q(j,g) 22:26:12 i bet it will work 22:26:47 Nope. 22:26:55 Still have infinite recursions. 22:27:01 (n>1)?0: ({return strdup(s);}); 22:27:02 i'll gdb 22:27:10 This is the offending line, I fear. 22:27:14 pikhq: are you sure that actually returns 22:27:19 i think it'll only return from the {} block 22:27:32 If n>1, yes. 22:27:35 Erm. 22:27:38 If n<1. 22:27:47 Otherwise, it goes on. 22:27:58 See what happens with q(2, "ab"). . . 22:28:02 ok, let's just go through this mechanically: 22:28:09 let's use "hello" as arguments 22:28:20 now, lots of stuff goes okay, then we recurse into n=1,s="o" 22:28:30 this goes fine and returns 22:28:34 now, we get into n=4 s="hell" 22:28:46 The pivot is l again. 22:28:59 Thus, we get to n=4, s="hell". 22:29:11 then, it goes through 22:29:14 and recurses n=0 s="" 22:29:19 which returns 22:29:21 !!!! oh my 22:29:23 Huh? 22:29:32 then we get to... n=4 s="hell\002" 22:29:43 Just n=4 s="hell" over here. 22:29:50 oh. well... ok 22:29:54 maybe it's because i modified my version 22:29:55 heh 22:29:55 ok 22:30:01 Which obviously loops forever. 22:30:06 right, wait 22:30:08 i think i know why 22:30:15 Pivot selection. 22:30:21 well, yeah 22:30:44 i'll try and write a better pivot 22:30:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:30:54 hmm, but what 22:31:55 how about we just make it choose a random pivot :-) 22:32:09 :) 22:33:32 q (n=3, s=0x7ffff7ac6580 "abc��\177") at quick.c:9 22:33:37 ?!? 22:33:56 yeah i think we have a problem here 22:34:16 hey, how about you ask #c? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH-ehm. 22:34:28 (also known as the least helpful channel on freenode) 22:34:52 i wonder if poppavic still goes there, he had a really good continuous stream of nonsense generator installed in his brain 22:35:35 How's about p = (rand()%n)[s] instead of p=rand(). :p 22:35:43 ooh, interesting idea ;) 22:35:45 but... 22:35:49 doesn't rand() return, uh, a float? 22:35:50 from 0 to 1 22:35:57 No. 22:36:00 hm, ok 22:36:07 It returns an int from 0 to MAXINT. 22:36:09 Erm. 22:36:11 MAXRAND. 22:36:13 crazy c ;) 22:36:30 There should be a better pivot selection, though. 22:36:38 ehm 22:36:42 this new version with random pivot 22:36:45 sorts acb to acb 22:36:46 Works. 22:36:52 Odd. 22:37:03 test@f6b2c69 ~/cygwin 22:37:03 Maybe you've got other changes? 22:37:03 $ ./a.exe yourmom 22:37:03 mmooryu 22:37:11 also it sorts hello to hello 22:37:19 New version uploaded. 22:37:24 http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1193002622.html mine 22:37:32 It segfaults on hello, though. 22:37:56 Heisenbugging. 22:37:58 does it sort bytes? 22:38:23 It sorts cbaefgh to, alternately, abcefgh, segfault, and abce�fg. 22:38:38 acb is a heisenbug 22:38:42 i just tried it three times 22:38:45 it sorted to "abc 22:38:48 a blank output 22:38:49 and abc 22:38:57 You need (n>1), not (n>2). 22:39:02 so you're doing things with the pivot wrong 22:39:02 and 22:39:05 i just downloaded your version 22:39:32 anyway 22:39:37 fix what you're doing with the pivot :P 22:39:42 because ANY pivot should work 22:40:13 *Should*, not is. ;) 22:40:39 i'm going to write CRAZYSORT! 22:40:46 which is my crazy sort algorithm which is like a fucked up quicksort 22:40:47 ;) 22:42:16 I've discovered that, somehow, having two elements equal to each other *guarantees* a segfault. 22:42:23 haha 22:43:15 And it's still heisenning. 22:43:23 you need to have nullity support ;P 22:43:41 haha, g4lt-mordant 22:43:48 it's SUPER-TURING! 22:43:50 ;) 22:44:42 The Missed Symphony - Classical Mushroom - Infected Mushroom 22:51:44 * pikhq still doesn't see *what* is fucked up here 22:53:48 tee hee my algorithm is really funny 22:54:05 it's basically quicksort, except the pivot is the first element, and i only sort the right list 22:55:20 hmm 22:55:31 http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/otcc/ 22:55:34 inspiring ;) 22:55:38 i might write a compiler like that 22:55:45 *Doh*. 22:55:51 compiles just a small enough subset of c to do basic stuff and compile itself 22:56:00 It may help to have a pivot that's *in the list*. 22:56:09 pikhq: wow, really? 22:56:44 That doesn't explain the infinite recursion of sorting "ab", though. 22:58:05 Sure, it select b as the pivot. . . 22:58:12 hmm, actually a c compiler should actually be TRIVIAL to write... 22:58:16 a simple, old-style one 22:58:26 especially the parsing, you could write a very simple parser by hand 22:59:06 i mean, what does it take to parse: NAME "(" [NAME ","...] ")" VARS BLOCK? 22:59:28 i'd bet the parser for functions would just be a few lines, and only need to call the name, maybe namelist, declarations and the block parser 22:59:37 plus it isn't exactly hard to compile... 22:59:37 hmmmm 23:02:03 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:02:49 I suspect that my quicksort implementation has something fundamentally wrong. 23:03:22 hmm, otcc, unobfuscated, with all comments and whitespace, is just 632 lines 23:03:26 and it compiles itself 23:03:26 amazing 23:03:41 Otcc, unobfuscated, is what we call "tcc". 23:03:48 no 23:03:50 different codebase 23:03:57 By the same guy. . . 23:04:00 sure 23:04:03 look 23:04:04 http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/otcc/ 23:04:09 he officially provides non-obfuscated versions 23:04:09 And from the same code base. . . 23:04:12 not just a link to tcc 23:04:15 they're different, ok?! 23:04:18 tcc is much expanded 23:04:25 otcc is a lot simpler and only compiles basic code 23:04:28 Although tcc has had many features added since he started on tcc and otcc. 23:04:40 exactly, they're practically seperate now 23:05:08 look at otccn.c 23:05:11 it's way different from tcc 23:05:16 and much easier to read for me 23:05:20 and also very very VERY tiny 23:09:37 i did a program that sorts the byte of argv[1] in 144 bytes 23:09:41 *bytes 23:09:46 jix: with quicksort? 23:09:50 nope ;) 23:10:05 bogosort? 23:10:10 nope 23:10:15 bubblesort? 23:10:18 mergesort? 23:10:20 nope 23:10:26 it runs in linear time 23:10:34 some sort of trick, then? ;) 23:10:39 quantum bogosort? 23:10:42 nope 23:10:48 oh just tell me 23:10:56 bucket sort 23:11:08 the number of different items that can be sorted is finite 23:11:13 so it can be done in linear time 23:11:23 and as the number is small it can be done very fast in linear time 23:11:32 main(c,v)unsigned char**v;{unsigned int q[256],x=0;++v;while(255&++x)x[q]=0;while(**v)++q[*(*v)++];while(255&--x)while(q[x]--)*--*v=x;puts(*v);} 23:14:15 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:16:07 =) 23:16:19 how it works should be obvious from the source 23:17:26 uh the ints don't have to be unsigned 23:17:40 main(c,v)unsigned char**v;{int q[256],x=0;++v;while(255&++x)x[q]=0;while(**v)++q[*(*v)++];while(255&--x)while(q[x]--)*--*v=x;puts(*v);} 23:17:46 135 byte 23:22:33 pikhq: how is it doing? 23:22:34 by the way 23:22:37 random pivot idea 23:22:42 sum(list)/length(list) 23:22:50 probably too long to run btu eh 23:22:51 but eh 23:23:24 strcat() is a bad choice for combining the two strings. . . 23:25:00 orly? 23:25:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_Airport <-- lol 23:29:16 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:31:28 Orally Airport. 23:34:07 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 23:34:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:34:25 someone propose an esoteric and silly sorting algorithm idea so i can implement it :P 23:37:57 Stooge sort. 23:38:02 = 23:38:03 what 23:38:11 Wikipede it. 23:38:27 nice time complexity 23:40:28 bubble sort is my favorite 23:40:47 stooge sort is the one by knuth right? 23:40:55 stooge sort is a joke sort 23:41:03 oh, nope 23:41:05 bubble sort really sucks anyway :P 23:41:24 the knuth one i'm thinking of has factorial time complexity 23:41:55 it rearanges the array randomly untill it's sorted 23:41:58 bogosort 23:42:34 ahh yes 23:45:46 "Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use." 23:46:19 haha where's that from 23:46:24 (... it is satirical right?) 23:46:46 nope, not satirical in the least 23:46:50 http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm 23:47:15 direct quote from the commisioner of the burea of narcotics 23:48:40 "...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races." 23:48:44 lolololoLOOOOOOOOL 23:48:47 yeah 23:49:10 he appears to mention nothing about the obviously superior whites using ti :P 23:50:57 however that heartbone.com site is kind of kooky, it has a link on the home page: Theory on the fundamental nature of the physical universe, which links to a page with many animated "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" gifs and the title "HeartBone Physical Universe Theory Page" 23:51:26 ya lol 23:51:49 "THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE IS COMPOSED OF 2 PARTS POT AND ONE PART WHOOOAAA DUDE" -- leaked copy of the theory 23:56:09 haha i'm throwing random shuffling code together and calling it a sorting algorithm 23:56:26 my favourite so far is BONOSORT! 23:57:32 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:57:37 get an output list and an appended list. reverse the list. for every index i in the list, if i is the last element in the list, skip this. otherwise, if the element is greater than the next element of the list and the next index in the list is not in appended, append the next element to the result and append the next index to appended. then: if i is not in appended, append the element to the result 23:57:43 it produces... something that isn't sorted :D 2007-10-22: 00:01:09 for(int i=0;i!=size;i++)if(array[i] > array[i+1])strfry(array); 00:01:25 Erm. . . No. 00:01:38 i love strfry and memfrob 00:02:17 :) 00:02:55 hee, i really want to write that silly c compiler 00:03:01 :-) 00:03:34 i had strfry for dinner last night 00:03:37 maybe even some preprocessor stuff for vague inter-compatibility 00:03:50 maybe generate ELF or Mach-O, or if I'm feeling crazy PE 00:10:48 <.< 00:18:15 :D 01:04:55 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:51:35 my dad beat me at risk again >_< 03:37:17 -!- calamari has joined. 03:41:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:02:27 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 04:07:29 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:07:35 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:18:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:18:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:21:36 -!- immibis has joined. 04:22:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:23:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:07:14 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:25:02 bsmntbombdood: one day, you will beat your father at risk, and you shall truly be a man 05:25:11 goddamn, that game is fun 05:25:39 the only two board games I still love to play are Monopoly and Risk, which are unfortunately the games that everyone seems to get pissed about losing 05:25:57 I'd add chess to that list. 05:27:26 I enjoy chess, but I find that Risk and Monopoly, by adding a random element yet still relying heavily on strategy, hit the "sweet spot" of strategic gaming better. Good planning and judgments are rewarded, but if you're screwed you can always make a long-shot last stand 05:27:57 plus, you have the whole diplomacy metagame to work with that chess completely lacks 05:31:01 ok, so different topic- tell me what you guys think of this as a premise for a video game: 05:32:08 before you say anything: i love it 05:32:36 A cabal of meteorologists have developed technology capable of massively altering and controlling the world's weather patterns. 05:33:48 World governments are plunged into chaos as hurricanes, thunderstorms, volcanic eruptions and earthquakes shatter cities and infrastructure. 05:35:57 The only hope for humanity's freedom lies in an elite army-for-hire of some of brilliant engineers and scientists with the technology and manufacturing capabilities to fight back. 05:36:16 *of some brilliant 05:36:30 or just *of 05:37:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:37:25 what do you guys think? 05:39:16 obviously I'm not blowing anybody away. :/ 05:39:34 I wanted to call it "Cloudmakers". 05:47:26 anybody? 05:49:58 <:( 05:50:12 of some of the world's most? 05:50:28 that's probably what I intended to type 05:50:29 i mean, of some of the world's most brilliant? 05:51:32 * immibis doesn't know what you're supposed to do in that game anyway as RodgerTheGreat never mentioned it. 05:51:48 I'm speaking in terms of backstory 05:52:06 * immibis doesn't have an opinion in that case. 05:52:16 -!- g4lt-mordant has changed nick to galt-notreg. 05:52:21 you'd likely play as a civil engineer, taking on the forces of the Weathermen on a battlefield. 05:52:28 ok 05:52:52 why would a cabal of meteorologists want to destroy cities? 05:52:58 and what's a cabal? 05:53:21 A cabal is a number of persons united in some close design, usually to promote their private views and interests in a church, state, or other community by intrigue. 05:53:24 -!- galt-notreg has changed nick to galt-sb100. 05:53:39 ok 05:54:35 They're attempting to conquer the world as revenge for what they perceive as being trivialized by both the public and the scientific community (cartoonish, yes, but the game is intentionally a bit tongue-in-cheek) 05:55:13 ok 05:55:45 i suppose they don't destroy other meteorologists' houses then? 05:56:09 -!- galt-sb100 has changed nick to g4lt. 05:56:33 we'll assume that the subset of meteorologists comprising said cabal live in secure bases and residences. 05:56:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 05:57:13 and other meteorologists not belonging to that cabal? 05:57:31 are SOL and unimportant to the overall story 05:57:39 ok 05:59:15 i don't like monopoly 05:59:32 and you should immitate http://durota.ru/games/2/2420/play.html11 06:00:02 RodgerTheGreat: ^ 06:00:07 ok 06:01:24 -> bed 06:02:47 actually, sleeping would be unlikely 06:02:53 immibis: my main question is, do you find the overall idea at all intriguing? Would you be interested to know how a story like that played out? 06:03:54 * immibis doesn't know. immibis would be if it were to happen in real life, to him, of course. 06:04:30 alright, I'll chalk that one up as "intriguing premise. develop further." 06:06:05 does anyone else have an opinion? 06:06:44 is anyone else here? 06:07:12 oklopol was here 06:07:21 as was pikhq. 06:07:25 ---> is <--- anyone else here? 06:07:44 [17:32] before you say anything: i love it 06:07:51 I was enumerating possibilities in addition to providing summonses 06:18:05 well, 'night everyone 06:19:17 goodnight 06:47:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:47:15 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 06:49:01 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 06:54:59 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:09:28 IRP --language=VB6 CrashProgram Type:=DivideByZero, OutputErrorMessage:=True, ProgramToCrash:=GetCurrentProgram() 07:34:46 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:34:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:52:58 immibis: Die. 07:56:15 * immibis shoots himself 07:56:47 * immibis un-shoots himself as he realises lament forgot to say "immibis: IRP die" 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:11:05 IRP --target=lament Die. 08:11:20 IRP --target=#esoteric --exclude-target=lament Kill lament. 08:11:53 IRP --one-of-the-good-things-about-this-irp-interpreter=you-can-make-up-new-command-line-options 08:20:06 IRP --target=lament die, but before you do, say IRP --target=immibis kill yourself 08:37:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:44:56 IRP --target=oerjan --syntax=scheme-like --library irp-std -- (CrashProgram (GetCrashTypeFromList (GetCrashList "100 Ways to Crash a Program") "Division by zero") (GetThisProgram)) 08:48:31 IRP --target=#esoteric --syntax=c -- MakeUserStop("immibis",irp_action);MakeUserNotDoAgain("immibis",irp_action); 08:59:10 main = print . cycle $ "Why not use a more compact language!\n" 08:59:23 whoops 08:59:31 main = putStr . cycle $ "Why not use a more compact language!\n" 09:00:20 IRP --target=oerjan -- don't forget to put IRP in front of it and the syntax rules. 09:00:54 but that destroys the whole point of a compact language! 09:01:06 for example IRP --syntax=scheme-like --varient=festival-tts -- (SayText "Hello World") 09:01:11 *variant 09:02:18 IRP -timmibis -shaskell -e'putStrLn "Ha!"' 09:03:01 IRP: Missing -S option. 09:03:14 IRP: Missing -C option 09:03:20 IRP: Missing -P option 09:03:33 IRP: missing -E option 09:03:36 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Now if you ). 09:07:10 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 09:18:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:03:53 @wwwwwwww$ ... <- what would you do? 11:46:24 Does anyone have a good use for 16 megs of Rule 30 automaton output? 11:46:33 Took three weeks to compute. 11:46:36 And now I don't know what to do with it. 11:47:18 I suppose I should put it through empirical tests for randomness. But I keep putting it off. 11:50:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 12:20:58 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:17:27 -!- bartw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:36:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Success). 14:45:52 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:46:09 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:51:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:56:11 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 14:56:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:37:48 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:22:24 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 16:28:13 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 16:31:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:33:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:03:58 -!- jix has joined. 18:10:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:27:04 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 18:31:34 esoteric idea: write C, using qwerty, but with your keyboard layout on dvorak 18:31:36 :P 18:38:56 huh? 18:39:36 a C coder who uses qwerty, sets the layout as dvorak in their os 18:39:41 then codes C in their editor as usual 18:39:48 result = obfuscated garbage, to most people 18:41:17 so... 18:41:32 -!- bartw has joined. 18:41:37 i don't know 18:41:39 it's an esoteric idea 18:44:16 not really 18:44:21 it's just simple substition 18:53:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:56:28 Permutation = bad cipher :P 18:56:51 sure, sure :P 18:56:57 but still 20:02:37 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:05:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:45:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 20:56:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:13:05 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:16:30 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 21:31:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:49:19 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:53:45 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:14:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2007-10-23: 00:26:48 I promote obfuscated C via the bifid cipher. 00:27:02 Although it *does* suffer from a known plaintext. . . 00:33:32 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:12:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection timed out). 02:03:48 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:06:16 -!- cmeme has joined. 02:19:34 Anybody have some .smv files for a portable music player they'd be willing to give me? (I'm hacking up a converter for GNU/Linux) 02:23:52 anyone able to run windows executables and has a lot of bandwidth and hard drive space and smarts? 02:24:14 Heh 02:37:45 i'm serious 02:42:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:02:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:26:24 -!- SF|008 has joined. 05:35:07 -!- SF|008 has quit (Connection timed out). 06:06:44 -!- immibis has joined. 06:08:35 -!- Mark__ has joined. 06:09:06 hello? 06:09:26 -!- Mark__ has quit (Client Quit). 06:09:42 -!- StapleGun_ has joined. 06:10:02 anyone here? 06:12:57 me 06:13:20 * immibis wonders why Mark/StapleGun changed his name 06:14:05 :) 06:14:14 is this irc very active? 06:15:39 clearly not ... >_> 06:18:31 Varies. 06:19:20 gg 06:21:30 -!- StapleGun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 06:22:35 -!- StapleGun_ has joined. 06:26:56 so u guys only tok bout esolangs here? 06:28:41 In principle, but really the conversation is just as often on something else esoteric. 06:31:46 isee 07:05:34 -!- immibis has left (?). 07:13:19 -!- g4lt has left (?). 07:42:33 -!- StapleGun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:47:36 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:37:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:46:51 -!- StapleGun_ has joined. 09:46:59 hello 09:47:11 hello 09:47:50 how long has esolangs.org been aorund for? 09:49:08 i don't know, i've been here a year 09:49:38 oh wait 09:49:47 thought you were asking about the channel 09:51:14 the history of the main page goes back to April 2005 09:52:03 so does the brainfuck page 09:55:23 btw this is probably _the_ slowest period of day on this channel. 09:55:48 (saw your earlier question in the logs) 10:40:58 ah k 10:41:38 im working on an esoteric language as a learning experience, im trying to make the hello world example and ive confused myself 11:10:22 brb 11:20:26 hmm, what time is this channel active? 11:22:31 mostly when the americans are awake, is my impression 11:23:41 you could take a look at the logs 11:25:36 kk 11:26:12 hmm is it possible to join to a different server using chatzilla? 11:26:19 the red days are those with more activity 11:26:35 i cant seem to find the log, ive never used irc b4 11:26:37 don't know, not using it 11:26:48 http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric 11:26:58 ty 11:26:59 it's listed in the channel topic 11:27:48 goes from dark blue to light blue to red? 11:28:06 i think so 11:28:27 cool 11:28:35 which irc do u use? 11:28:44 irssi 11:29:21 looks cool 11:30:16 is it linux based 11:30:18 ? 11:30:52 mine is running on linux 11:31:22 also, terminal-based 11:31:35 ah cool 11:31:45 u dont know wot game maker is by any chance do u? 11:32:04 "UNIX systems", says the webpage 11:32:37 not really 11:33:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Maker 11:33:13 i assume 11:33:43 yea, id be a full time linux user if i could get game maker to run on linux ... that and company of heroes 11:34:12 heh 11:43:38 im going thx for the infos 11:43:52 cu 11:44:02 -!- StapleGun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 12:51:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:54:25 -!- oklopo1 has joined. 12:55:12 -!- oklopo1 has changed nick to oklopol. 13:30:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lunch"). 13:40:32 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 14:15:23 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:58:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:35:29 hey, folks 16:36:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:44:08 i has a lenny 16:50:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 17:09:34 -!- jix has joined. 17:24:54 -!- ehird1 has joined. 18:35:50 hi 18:35:56 hi 18:36:00 hi 18:37:06 hi 18:37:12 oink.cd got pwnt 18:37:29 I just heard elsenet 18:37:42 * SimonRC reads: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tees/7057812.stm 18:37:43 and i just got an account a few days ago :( 18:38:00 looks like a torrent site? i've never heard of it 18:38:03 (ex-torrent site.) 18:38:16 TORRENTS ARE EVIL 18:38:26 * oklopol has to leave! -> 18:38:30 i'm not even sure oklopol is joking... 18:38:35 you can never be sure with him 18:39:12 I really need to stop reading "British Phonographic Industry" as "British Pornographic Industry". 18:39:26 me too :P 18:39:28 and how is free music distributing "lucrative"? 18:39:38 the site was exclusive 18:39:51 british phornographic industry 18:39:59 invite only, etc 18:58:04 I just had a crazy, crazy idea. 18:58:08 A Forth system in Brainfuck. 18:58:36 Actually, the memory is laid out perfect for forth stacks and dictionaries - you just have a slab of infinite memory (let's assume an infinite memory implementation) to do stuff with 18:58:44 And the execution model isn't hard... Hey, that could work. 19:00:17 uh? 19:00:37 bsmntbombdood: maybe if you said something more than uh? i could give you an answer 19:01:00 ooops 19:03:45 ;) 19:11:13 any comments? ;) 19:13:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Connection timed out). 19:26:51 :) 19:29:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:39:45 http://craphound.com/overclocked/Cory_Doctorow_-_Overclocked_-_When_Sysadmins_Ruled_the_Earth.html <- I thought this was a fantastic read 19:45:46 I'd highly recommend it to anyone with half an hour or so to blow 19:47:05 back 19:47:30 RodgerTheGreat: any thoughts on a Forth written in brainfuck? :) 19:48:38 hm 19:49:08 the memory layout is good for it, the core execution could be done with some minimal work 19:49:10 sounds difficult, but possible. I'll bet we could benefit from using gregor's approach to building a stack in BF 19:49:13 * SimonRC goes away. 19:49:13 and i think it shouldn't be too hard 19:49:21 RodgerTheGreat: well -- a forth system isn't hard 19:49:44 I've built some stack-based languages myself- I'm familiar 19:49:48 * SimonRC has thought about Forth in BF too... 19:49:55 still, if you look at e.g. JonesForth 19:50:08 the core is basically some minimal assembly, then lots of memory pushing to define the core words 19:50:23 though you would really want a faster way to access the "main memory" 19:50:24 yeah 19:50:26 then you define the rest in forth itself... so i think writing one in BF should be pretty easy 19:50:26 * SimonRC goes away. 19:50:52 the problem with gregorr's stack mechanism, is that it requires double memory 19:50:57 ABC = A1B1C1 19:52:15 main thing is, for a good forthlike, you need multiple data structures: at least a stack, variable dictionary and either a dedicated linked-list dictionary for storing code or the ability to store those in your variable dictionary 19:52:46 so we'd need to carve our BF tape into at least two pieces, which means we must place absolute limits on stack or dictionary size 19:52:52 RodgerTheGreat: variable dictionary? uh, no 19:52:56 (limited stack > limited dictionary) 19:52:56 variables are just memory locations 19:53:06 with NAMES. 19:53:11 VARIABLE n -> : n ; 19:53:18 n @ -> @ 19:53:22 no dictionary there 19:53:31 it just finds an unused memory location and defines a word that just returns it 19:53:36 s/return/pushes it to stack 19:53:47 it's possible to do that 19:53:54 that's what all the forth's i've used have done 19:54:20 well, it's a simple way to do it 19:54:23 also 19:54:34 the code dictionary is really just a stack 19:54:41 except, you can non-destructively pop 19:54:45 i.e. there's a "previous" pointer 19:54:53 a linked-list, then, i guess 19:54:59 except, it has "prev" instead of "next" 19:55:15 making a word is just making the entry then: prev = CURRENT, CURRENT = self 19:55:35 so, really, you will have this memory layout: 19:56:04 [stack of fixed size (you shouldn't let it grow big anyway...)][dictionary of finite, but expanding size][HERE BE DRAGONS] 19:56:19 (dragons = variables and other misc. memory, of course) 19:56:37 of course, the dictionary can tiptoe over the dragons when adding a new entry 19:59:21 RodgerTheGreat: you know i really think a forth in brainfuck could be tiny 19:59:31 i mean, it needs very little 19:59:38 hm 19:59:50 without comments and whitespace (well, apart from 80col line breaks) i'd bet it could be pretty short... a few hundred lines? 19:59:53 maybe less 20:00:17 and I suppose the interesting thing is that most libraries you'd want are already written in more or less pure FORTH, so we could rapidly expand the language 20:00:27 indeed 20:00:40 things you won't find: graphics, networking 20:00:41 we'd want to whip up a BF interpreter that can load/save states to make it less painful to work with 20:00:42 files 20:00:43 :P 20:00:54 FORTH is it's own filesystem 20:00:59 hehe yes 20:01:16 it's not its own tcp/ip stack, however 20:01:17 :-) 20:01:31 true 20:01:37 maybe first a plain BF implementation 20:01:43 then it could be hacked to work with one of the outside-layers 20:01:46 like PSOX or EsoAPI 20:02:06 they'd act identical except the latter would have the neccessary words for doing stuff that isn't possible in pure BF 20:02:10 Wait, what? 20:02:15 PSOX == highlighted 20:02:34 Sgeo: PROTIP: if you have something on highlight, READ THE GODDAMN MESSAGE! 20:03:12 * Sgeo should work on PSOX at some point 20:06:05 RodgerTheGreat: what's your estimate for source size? ;) in instructions. i bet about 24000 instructions, minimum (300 lines at 80 characers( 20:08:10 maybe less, maybe more 20:14:42 RodgerTheGreat: actually maybe that's a bit overboard, less i'd say 20:17:22 =) 20:23:57 anyone know a way to make a BF stack that doesn't require len*2 usage? RodgerTheGreat? 20:27:27 ehird1: probably you can replace 2 by something smaller by having only occasional gaps 20:27:56 i guess that will complicate the code however 20:28:00 oerjan: yeah 20:28:18 i mean, ideally there should be some sort of sentinel value at the start and end, but then you can't access an arbitary element 20:37:01 -!- oerjan has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:39:36 it's puzzling 20:40:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:40:34 oerjan: at least i don't thinnk you can access arbitary elements with fixed sentinels 20:42:08 unless you shuffle everything 20:42:35 so i think a1b1c1...z0 is the best way, for now? 20:42:42 or rather: the only way, really 20:43:50 i'm not quite sure - since you are probably doing lots of copying even with that, perhaps shuffling everything _isn't_ that much worse 20:44:10 shuffling everything being what? 20:44:15 bogosort access? 20:44:16 :P 20:44:24 er, shifting 20:45:17 in what way? 20:45:27 swapping the carry-along index with the cells, until you get to the desired point 20:45:39 i don't quite understand 20:46:12 let's say your stack is abcdefgh and you want to access element 3 from the end 20:47:05 abcdefgh3 -swap- abcdefg2h -swap- abcdef1gh -swap- abcde0fgh 20:47:23 i see 20:47:32 that would mean stack access would be quite a lot of code, though, no? 20:47:35 you need some extra room to carry along the value, but only a _constant_ amount 20:48:16 perhaps, but you could make it a subroutine i think 20:48:46 PEBBLE 20:49:26 i don't want to use pebble 20:49:43 nor indeed subroutines, i think it'd be pretty easy to write a forth without subroutines 20:51:06 actually, only the word that accesses _arbitrary_ stack needs to use this method 20:51:17 so it would be a subroutine anyhow 20:51:23 (a forth one) 20:51:30 oerjan: all stack-manipulation words need to do it, and they shouldn't be forth words 20:51:31 why not PEBBLE? 20:51:33 (e.g. rot) 20:51:42 oklopol: because i want to use BF, not pebble (i know pebble can compile to bf) 20:51:50 no, most stack-manipulation words only need to access the top few values 20:51:57 true i guess 20:52:00 pebble is a very low-level thingie. 20:52:04 oklopol: i don't care! 20:52:18 how big should the stack be? 20:52:24 i say 15 ints 20:52:34 i mean, you shouldn't let the stack grow beyond that in forth anyway 20:52:50 o_O 20:53:01 [data stack of course] 20:53:15 oerjan: chuck moore agrees (although he is bat-shit insane) 20:54:11 for example, colorforth's stack is about that size 20:54:23 and, personally, the stack length has never grown >20 or so in my usage 20:54:27 16 seems like a good size to me 20:54:42 also, i assume that i won't do floats, negative integers etc 20:54:51 so, we can use a standard 0-255, wrapping BF int 20:55:10 (PEBBLE!!) 20:55:11 (sorry) 20:57:24 what BF interp/compilers does everyone here use? 20:57:29 i actually have no idea what the most commonly used are 21:07:42 i always make a new one 21:08:37 but if you want something with good debugging... hmm.. 21:08:44 that thingie with the blue leaf 21:08:53 i don't remember the name actually :P 21:08:56 blue fern? 21:09:05 i wonder if that was the good one 21:58:55 Damnit! I didn't think this bf interpreter through... 21:59:24 I was reading in code char-by-char/. 21:59:38 So, I can't jump. :| 22:06:46 you mean reading and executing simultaneously? 22:11:56 yeah 22:12:01 execute(read character), basically 22:12:43 rewrite time! 22:12:45 well, not really rewrite 22:12:46 not even saving the char? o_O 22:12:48 oerjan: yeah 22:12:50 pretty stupid 22:12:51 :P 22:12:54 i wasn't thinking 22:13:29 (i wouldn't even be writing a bf interp if i didn't want to add state saving/loading) 22:13:50 (basically: you can save the tape and code pointer to a file, then recall it again to resume your session) 22:14:06 (you initiate the saving by pressing ^Z - it handles SIGSUSP by asking for a filename) 22:14:17 (and then just "interp dump") 22:15:47 besides that it resizes the tape pretty well 22:15:53 it first tries len*2 22:15:57 then that-1 if it fails 22:16:00 that-2 if that fails 22:16:04 all the way down to (current size) 22:19:06 oerjan, oklopol: what do you think is a reasonable default size for code? 22:19:15 (code is read into a variable sized array, i need to know a good starting point) 22:19:24 i was thinking 1000 22:21:19 dunno 22:25:29 mwwwahahaha use pebble and make that easy to change 22:25:39 weird 22:25:44 yeah 22:25:50 pretty cizra indeed 22:26:01 upgrading from sarge to lenny changed a bunch of fonts 22:26:18 er, etch to lenny 22:38:25 my 138L, 2960C, 2.9K brainfuck interpreter is almost done (with sane bracket handling, i.e. very fast, scans at start with stack) ... then i have to do state_saving 22:39:07 (state saving isn't hard, i just need to save the tape{,size,ptr}, code{,size,length,ptr} and bracket-map{,size}) 22:39:12 so... dump all the vars basically 22:41:40 -!- oerjan has quit ("Too late, good night"). 22:43:22 -!- StapleGun_ has joined. 22:43:35 hello 22:43:56 hi 22:43:57 hi 22:44:22 ehird1: brainfuck interpreter in what languagE? 22:44:27 oklopol: C 22:44:27 EE 22:44:29 oh 22:44:33 it's for speed. 22:44:37 i'm writing a Forth in this remember 22:44:56 howver 22:44:57 however 22:45:00 it is very understandable c 22:45:21 my "oh" was very neutral 22:45:29 we should all be speaking lojban 22:45:32 heh 22:45:54 neutral attiduntal oh! 22:46:54 lol 22:46:56 dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules 22:46:58 fuck you, gcc 22:47:06 you are retarded and pedantic 22:47:08 this is C!! 22:47:19 i am allowed to play loose and fast with my pointers and their types 22:47:24 u use linux? 22:47:44 os x most of the time but i am stuck on windows right now. i am using the software i love by virtue of cygwin 22:47:54 ic 22:48:16 what r u writing? 22:48:55 a brainfuck interpreter that can dump and load states 22:49:08 i.e. you can end a session then resume it later, it just dumps the state to a file 22:49:09 cool 22:49:11 it is also pretty fast 22:49:19 thats awesome 22:49:36 it's also only 137 lines 22:49:46 holy crap 22:49:48 thats intense 22:49:57 mines like 200 for this prototype im working 22:50:06 but i didnt comment and now im confused 22:50:48 mine has about 3 comments, none of which are particularly helpful 22:50:52 but it's really easy to understand, so 22:50:57 (whee, hello world hangs. what fun) 22:51:01 It's supposed to interpret this: 22:51:03 _ < 22:51:04 _ $ 33> 100>_ 114^ 22:51:06 _<72< 101< <108>\^ \ 22:51:07 _.32> /^/ \87> 22:51:09 &{ {{ { { { { { {{{ {# 22:51:11 , Output: Hello World! 22:51:12 But I end up control+alt+deleting after a few seconds 22:51:13 hmmm 22:51:15 what language is that? 22:51:18 it looks like snusp 22:51:19 or path 22:51:21 its the one im working 22:51:26 its sort of like path i guess 22:51:44 it has an instruction pointer 22:51:52 and it bounces between the line start and finish 22:51:55 clever 22:51:58 _ drops it down the line 22:52:02 ^ jumps it up 22:52:14 it's like the turtles in mario going through execution tokens, i guess 22:52:14 heh 22:52:20 lol yes 22:52:27 u can skip the next instruction with / 22:52:32 but only if going -> 22:52:37 otherwise u need \ 22:52:51 and best of all > means push, but means pop if going the othrt way lol 22:53:46 hmm... aren't brainfuck interpreters usually like 10 lines? 22:54:00 r they? 22:54:07 i wrote one in game maker that was well over 400 22:54:13 its also very slow 22:54:15 game maker :P 22:54:19 and no one understood it 22:54:22 the scripting languagE? 22:54:23 *e 22:54:32 eh, its evvolved from that 22:54:33 or the graphical interface? 22:54:40 ppl make some pretty sophisticated stuff 22:54:44 oklopol: yeah but mine scans all brackets before execution to put them in a table, intelligently resizes the tape, and other stuff 22:54:48 well it has drag and drop, but u can c style code now 22:55:14 omfg im dislexic, i thot ehird1 was talking the whole time ... 22:55:20 ehird1: naturally you parse the code, and what's intelligent resizing? 22:55:29 oklopol: it goes: 22:55:31 len*2 22:55:33 len*2-1 22:55:34 len*2-2 22:55:34 len*2-3 22:55:35 ... 22:55:38 until it reaches len+1 22:55:43 at which point it gives up and errors out 22:55:58 so it squeezes out as much memory as it can 22:56:06 brb 22:56:41 hmm 22:56:48 i don't get it 22:57:12 0, -1, -2, -3 ... 2, 1? 22:57:19 no 22:57:22 len is the current tape len 22:57:25 yeah 22:57:28 so if it can't resize the tape to len*2 22:57:31 i.e. no memory left for it 22:57:34 then it tries that-1 22:57:34 ah. 22:57:36 then that-2 22:57:36 etc 22:58:11 technically if you have the memory my program can support any brainfuck program up to MAX_INT characters 22:58:14 actually 22:58:14 i recommend rather doing len*2, len*1.5, len*1.25 etc. 22:58:15 MAX_UNSIGNED_INT 22:58:23 and, of course, that is fucking huge 22:58:34 (4,294,967,295 instructions) 22:58:50 well 22:58:52 characters, really 22:58:53 or just not allocation the full memory each time... 22:59:02 it doesn't strip out comments, because it uses fread for speed 22:59:10 why not do a stack with every cell being 256 brainfuck cells? 22:59:19 nah, mine is pretty good 22:59:27 although there's some simple bug that is making it infinite lopo 23:00:28 i agree it could suck more. 23:00:32 ! 23:00:33 Huh? 23:01:58 yay 23:02:00 +. works 23:02:04 it was a simple reading error 23:02:27 hello = infini loop :( 23:03:59 ok, my "," is bugged 23:04:02 hmm, don't wanna be mean here, but how can you not make a brainfuck interpreter work :| 23:04:11 it's like incredibly trivial :P 23:04:16 it's more complex than a regular interp :| 23:04:37 however i must admit 23:04:40 how can "case ',': tape[ptr] = getchar(); if (feof(stdin)) tape[ptr] = 0; break;" not work 23:05:21 what doesn't work with it? 23:05:51 infini loop on ,[.,] 23:06:22 well make it output the current cell 23:06:24 oh 23:06:26 my bad... 23:06:32 i forgot to save the BF program i was testinh 23:06:33 ahahahah 23:06:36 heh 23:06:37 i had left it as my infinite lopo 23:06:55 are you purposefully typing it as lopo? 23:07:06 haha 23:07:07 no 23:07:07 :P 23:07:25 real0m0.070s 23:07:25 ^ running time for ",[.,]" to be cat|'d to itself with the interp 23:07:30 not a bad speed i'd say 23:07:54 that's 100% io. 23:08:15 try a real program and we'll compare with EgoBot :) 23:08:21 PLooo 23:08:45 bsmntbombdood: YuRRRFEkcmm 23:08:55 i have magnets! 23:09:15 i think next year we should have an #esoteric camp at burning man 23:09:43 egobot's optimizes. 23:09:44 mine doesn't. 23:10:16 bsmntbombdood: is that a drug fest? 23:10:26 oklopol: not really 23:10:36 ehird1: well naturally you make it optimize before the big benchmarks! 23:10:42 r u wrting in c or c++? 23:11:14 bsmntbombdood: what then? it was on fg 23:11:21 err 23:11:24 sorry, american dad 23:11:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_man 23:11:50 of course burning man is a drug fest 23:12:22 i've always wanted to try drugs 23:12:51 when there's a will, there's a way. 23:13:42 how do u register for this irc? 23:16:41 u guys ever program in assembly? 23:16:57 back 23:17:06 StapleGun_: c 23:17:27 ah k 23:17:30 oklopol: it optimizes braces pretty well 23:17:35 StapleGun_: nobody should ever use C++ 23:17:37 it is a failure 23:17:45 ehird1: what does that mean? 23:18:17 how do i register? 23:18:21 oklopol: it has a lookup table of [ and ]. literally, there's an array "brackets" and brackets[CODE_POSITION_OF_BRACE] = brackets[CODE_POSITION_OF_MATCHING_BRACE] 23:18:27 it makes [ and ] EXTREMLELY fsat 23:18:30 here, i'll show the code 23:18:43 so basically a hacked-in parse tree 23:18:54 well, naturally you parse the code :P 23:18:55 oklopol: no 23:18:59 not a hacked in parse tree 23:19:06 it has no nesting 23:19:11 but it does work VERY well 23:19:14 and it VERY fast 23:19:36 it's basically the same thing as a parse-tree. 23:20:00 no. 23:20:01 it is not. 23:20:03 that is bullshit. 23:20:18 i see :| 23:20:18 it is not [ blah [ blah ] ] 23:20:24 it's [ = ], [ = ] 23:20:37 it's a direct mapping from brackets[CLOSE] = OPEN, and brackets[OPEN] = close 23:21:11 well, orly, i just mean it's the same thing as a parse tree if you think about the jumps of the cp 23:21:14 http://rafb.net/p/f9C1U032.html here's the interpreter, it's valid ANSI C89 23:21:31 there's some mysterious infinite-loop bug there and i can't figure out what triggers it, but i'll find out 23:21:44 also, state saving/loading comes later. it'll be trivial to do 23:24:21 err when you expand, where do you move the data to the new array? 23:24:47 i pass a reference to expand_array 23:24:49 *array = new 23:25:01 note: "unsigned char **array" 23:25:05 umm 23:25:14 doesn't that kinda lose the original array? 23:25:22 uhh, learn what realloc does 23:25:26 ah 23:25:32 i've never done pure C 23:25:36 i can tell 23:25:39 ;) 23:26:33 sweet 23:26:40 and even if i had done it, i'd most likely never have used realloc 23:26:50 eups, i have a major bug 23:26:55 realloc doesn't 0 out :-) 23:28:34 -!- StapleGun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 23:29:06 -!- StapleGun_ has joined. 23:29:36 hmm 23:29:51 wots with the underscore? 23:30:01 you had that earlier too 23:30:06 just /nick it off 23:30:46 -!- StapleGun_ has changed nick to staples. 23:31:23 it says its already in use lol 23:31:33 http://rafb.net/p/dRDGg445.html bf interpreter v0.5 23:31:42 if anyone knows why that won't run hello world, please enlighten me ;) 23:32:41 thats too advanced for me, im a cnoob 23:32:59 i didn't say anything about you, did i? 23:33:24 >.> 23:35:07 ehird1: what crashes? 23:35:25 try hello world 23:35:27 it just hangs there 23:35:30 and sucks up memory 23:35:33 and i have no idea why 23:36:03 but... i'd need to use a C compiler... :< 23:36:11 that'd be SO MUCH WORK :O 23:36:41 gcc -g -O3 -Wall -fno-strict-aliasing bf.c -o bf 23:36:44 have yourself a compile line 23:37:06 check the "parse tree" 23:37:13 i think that's your problem 23:37:56 no, the parse tree concept is basically ripped from one of daniel b cristofani's interpreters 23:38:00 also, it is correct. 23:38:22 the concept works, just thought that might be where minor bug would easiest slip in 23:38:28 *bugs 23:38:49 but you actually checked it parses correct? 23:39:13 since i'm failing something in that case 23:39:30 not that that's rare or anything. 23:39:46 ok, i may not know what the fuck i'm talking about 23:39:55 .[+.] hangs forever 23:40:01 you didn't check? 23:40:01 and, uh, that loop shouldn't even fucking RUN! 23:40:04 i did 23:40:05 but 23:40:06 WTF 23:40:09 well 23:40:13 wait 23:40:27 it's short enough i can gdb it 23:40:27 thankfully 23:41:18 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p364443342.txt 23:41:19 aah 23:41:20 the parsing is fine 23:41:23 okay 23:41:24 i just need to skip ONE AHEAD 23:41:28 on both 23:41:33 i, uh, think 23:41:43 then no need to explain that to me, although i'm a bit curious about how i could fail so badly. 23:42:23 god damnit you're right 23:42:25 daniel's interp has 23:42:27 stack[stackp++] 23:42:33 mine gets it wrong 23:42:34 * ehird1 fixes 23:42:44 so you didn't check the parse tree ;)) 23:42:51 ... no 23:42:52 :( 23:43:04 woot 23:43:05 hello world works 23:43:18 heh, niec 23:43:22 0.015s for hello world 23:43:24 not a bad speed 23:43:40 i'll try my python one 23:43:51 runs at 0.011 on my computer =D 23:43:52 if i can find one of them 23:44:43 ok, well you must remember this computer is ancient 23:44:48 on my mac it's likely even faster =) 23:44:57 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/tests.b i'm doing these now 23:45:13 python is interpreted isnt it? 23:45:17 yes 23:45:25 and i highly doubt it's 0.011 23:45:29 i mean, python is slow, really 23:45:33 >>> 23:45:33 Hello, world! 23:45:33 0.0060052325086 23:45:33 >>> 23:45:35 hehe 23:45:40 wow 23:45:44 wow 23:45:44 and this is a joke interpreter 23:45:46 that's not possible 23:45:47 i'll paste the code 23:45:49 but anyway 23:45:54 mine does some more stuff 23:45:58 and, it's still fucking fast 23:45:58 so 23:45:59 ;) 23:46:00 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p654251462.txt 23:46:09 what the fuck 23:46:11 yow 23:46:16 it's an interpreter-expression! 23:46:17 piss 23:46:18 heh 23:46:27 i wanted to do that with lambdas 23:46:35 aaah 23:46:36 i know why 23:46:39 you don't factor in python startup!! 23:46:44 remove your clock stuff 23:46:44 hmm? 23:46:47 then use the unix "time" utility 23:46:50 (it's in cygwin) 23:46:54 just start up cygwin 23:46:56 looks like lisp lol 23:47:01 time python interp 23:47:07 "real" is the one you want 23:47:09 i'm timing the hello world program. 23:47:10 tell me it :-) 23:47:14 and that isn't the point 23:47:18 mine factors in interpreter startup too 23:47:20 yours does not 23:47:37 yeah, and it owns you because of that. 23:47:47 that's retarded 23:47:54 sure, but owny! 23:47:55 show me what time(1) says, or i am still right 23:48:10 hmm, okay, what was i supposed to do now? 23:48:12 piss 23:48:14 brb 23:48:14 something about cygwin 23:48:17 -!- staples has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 23:48:39 first 23:48:42 remove the clock from your code 23:48:43 second 23:48:47 start up cygwin 23:48:50 removed... then? 23:48:52 cd (DIRECTORY TO CODE) 23:49:14 time /cygdrive/c/(PATH TO PYTHON REPLACE "\" WITH "/" AND LEAVE OUT C:\) interp 23:49:26 tell me what it says under "real" at the end 23:50:10 hmm... how do i know where the prompt is when i open it? 23:50:13 i just says ~ 23:50:24 and "dir" gives nothing 23:51:35 c:\documents and settings\username 23:51:38 and use "ls" 23:51:50 "ls" gives nothing 23:52:07 just do: 23:52:10 well 23:52:13 is it in My documents 23:52:15 or somewhere in c 23:52:17 if it's in c: 23:52:27 cd /cygdrive/c/DIRECTORY/SUBDIRECTORY/etc 23:52:42 ah cool 23:53:38 err... does it know how to run python? 23:53:54 time /cygdrive/c/path/to/python/python.exe FILE 23:54:03 ah. 23:54:13 bah, my interpreter seems to suck with multiple lines 23:54:14 :( 23:54:55 0.031ms when i don't run anything, just time 23:55:00 so... i think you won then? 23:55:04 -!- staplegun_ has joined. 23:55:04 uhh 23:55:06 don't run anything? 23:55:10 you run the hello world surely 23:55:21 "time o" is what i wrote 23:55:29 time o???? 23:55:39 what is o???????????? 23:55:44 look 23:55:45 time python.exe says "python.exe command not found" and says "real: 0.031ms" 23:55:48 well duh 23:55:52 i just said 23:55:53 time /cygdrive/c/path/to/python/python.exe FILE 23:56:05 is "python.exe" /cygdrive/c/PATH/TO/PYTHON/python.exe? 23:56:08 no. 23:56:22 i assumed you can just use python.exe if you're in the folder :DD 23:56:30 ./ 23:56:30 no 23:56:30 wait 23:56:32 yes 23:56:35 time ./python.exe script 23:56:41 then tell me what it says after "real" 23:56:50 wots a good python ide? 23:57:23 stop saying wot 23:57:40 0.227ms 23:57:55 but i don't really see what that tells ya 23:58:12 why don't you just time your parsing&execution and tell me that? 23:58:13 it tells you mine takes about 0.2 seconds less than yours 23:58:15 which is a long time 23:58:19 who cares how long the program starts :| 23:58:31 i didn't code the python interpreter 23:58:32 it's benchmarks - who cares how fast hello world runs in the first place? 23:58:38 well, it' 23:58:50 ^H^H^H^H^H 23:59:11 >_> 23:59:18 i just wanted to know how much faster yours was 23:59:27 0.2 seconds faster 2007-10-24: 00:00:01 time your parsing&loop 00:00:16 no, that isn't how long my interpreter takes to run 00:00:17 anyway 00:00:19 i really don't give a fuck 00:00:26 right now i'm trying to work out why my nesting breaks randomly 00:02:21 hmm 00:02:30 0.116 now 00:02:42 pretty much the same speed as an empty program 00:02:49 let's try a more complex program :D 00:03:12 i can't, seeing as my interpreter keeps claiming unmatched braces 00:03:26 oh 00:03:31 can i see the new one? 00:03:32 i'm fixing it now 00:03:35 and yeah in a minute 00:03:45 WOW 00:03:51 this: 00:03:52 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/fib.b 00:03:55 goes unimaginably fast 00:04:17 just now, i ran it and then as soon as i could - i.e. right after hitting enter, i hit Ctrl-C to terminate it 00:04:18 it got up to: 00:04:20 077649278811148299629990130790497978399974693652401690797312244381 00:04:23 er 00:04:26 1284057871006996373036197088663606849580363983512256652839038466984 00:04:41 :| 00:04:47 you have some big variables 00:05:01 or my python prog or what? 00:05:17 hmm 00:05:18 i just checked the whole output -- 00:05:21 and it generated - get this 00:05:24 319!!! fibonacci numbers 00:05:39 in the shortest time i could make it run that my reflexes (which are good) would allow 00:05:52 i don't really find that impressive... fib is O(1), and O(n) if you do one by one 00:06:05 319 additions 00:06:08 how about i leave it going for 10 seconds 00:06:10 and then you tell me 00:06:41 ok, forget that 00:06:46 7.812s :P 00:07:00 ok, in 7.812s it calculated 3190 fibonacci numbers 00:07:06 now are you impressed? at least mildly? ;) 00:08:25 mine doesn't do that right i think 00:08:46 random factoid 00:08:52 using the standard brainfuck text reversal program 00:09:01 if i pipe my interpreter's source code to itself running that program 00:09:07 it takes 0.047s to run 00:09:08 :P 00:10:24 what should the fibonacci program output? 00:10:28 do you start with 1 and 1 as the first two in the array b4 u start the sequence? 00:10:58 oklopol: fibonnaci numbers in decimal, one per line, continuously until halted 00:11:04 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/fib.b 00:11:15 hmm 00:11:15 < 00:11:15 >< 00:11:15 >< >< >< >< >< 00:11:15 >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< ><['<', '<', '+', '>', '+', '>', '-']><['>', '+', '<', '-', ['>', '+', '<', '-', ['>', '+', '<', '-', ['>', '+', '<', '-', ['>', '+', '< 00:11:22 wtf :) 00:11:51 oh 00:11:53 damn 00:12:10 my program doesn't do any output before the program finishes. 00:12:14 lame 00:12:14 :P 00:12:29 speaking of which i should flush stdout on each bit of output, shouldn't i? 00:12:50 how's it lame? 00:13:07 it should output when it gets the output 00:13:24 nah it's nicer this way 00:14:21 oh yeah, school tomorrow -> 00:14:25 no, that is not nicer 00:14:28 that is poitnless 00:14:32 would you like it if python did that? 00:16:32 i generally dislike side-effects in programs where they're not needed 00:16:56 AHA 00:16:58 i fixed my interpreter 00:17:08 tralso, my screen is black now. wonder what happened.... 00:17:13 and wonder what i'm typing 00:19:24 -!- staplegun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 00:21:11 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:23:52 -!- ehird1 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:24:17 -!- oklopl has joined. 00:25:07 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:25:14 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklopol. 00:26:01 yay back 00:26:05 now to sleep -> 00:26:31 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:56:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:10:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 01:17:38 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 01:19:51 -!- cmeme has joined. 01:46:57 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has joined. 02:15:58 -!- staplegun_ has joined. 02:22:37 -!- staplegun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 02:32:42 -!- staplegun_ has joined. 02:32:50 howzit 02:36:42 yupzit 02:36:47 thatzit 02:37:01 ,[] 02:37:13 ? 02:37:21 no, thatzn't 02:37:34 i meenz that i can sii my staple 02:37:36 lol 02:37:44 ic .. 02:38:10 -!- staplegun_ has changed nick to stap1egun. 02:38:15 I think is the first time that someone has been in #esoteric without knowing Brainfuck. 02:38:33 lol 02:39:00 i know brainfuck 02:39:13 How *dare* you not make sense of >,[>,]<[.<]! 02:39:32 my bad 02:40:17 pikhq, actually those are just different types of symbols o_O -.- 02:40:27 Fa1r: It's a valid Brainfuck program. 02:40:39 And a fairly simple example of Brainfuck at that. 02:40:45 so if you are coding bf, the spectator knows it, if not, then maybe not 02:40:54 looks like an input char until char is null then go back and overwrite it 02:41:05 with different chars 02:41:08 untilnull 02:41:22 This is #esoteric. . . And Brainfuck is the canonical esoteric language. 02:41:29 hum... sounds like useful one ^___^ 02:41:32 im aware 02:41:32 stap1egun: Well, yeah. . . Really, it just reverses its input. 02:42:08 -!- stap1egun has changed nick to schad. 02:42:41 hmm 02:43:06 if im writing a 2d esoteric language which uses a stack, would it be easier to write the interpreter in python or c? 02:43:19 sorry, not 2d, grid based 02:43:21 I'm not sure about *easier*. . . 02:43:35 But I'd still do C. 02:43:42 (largely because I don't know Python) 02:43:54 i know c but im a nub 02:44:22 inventing a language is first thing to do as a "nub"? 02:44:29 s/nub/n00b/ 02:44:42 Fa1r: A dc clone would be a fairly simple thing to do as a C n00b. 02:44:44 nah 02:44:45 oh shite, i must have missed something.. 02:44:46 i program 02:44:53 i just dont program c very well 02:45:02 (doing it *right* would be tricky, though. :p) 02:45:12 i made a piet interpreter 02:45:13 c is quite fun, err, shit. 02:45:20 lol 02:45:43 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bubble.c 02:45:47 s/n.+b/newbie/ 02:45:50 Bubble sort in obfuscated C. 02:46:17 fuck those ff plugins updating every night.. ;( 02:47:01 lol i know 02:47:05 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PHAWN 02:48:32 sound like something easy to maintain.. 02:48:54 keep your work! switch to any esolang today!! 02:49:04 lol 02:49:07 +s* 02:49:16 I'm reminded of Befunge. 02:49:41 whoa 02:49:47 unixcat is long :> 02:50:12 yea its alot like befunge i guess 02:51:33 i wanted it to look so messy and confusing, like when you open an exe in notepad >_> 02:53:12 Cute; a Windows user. 02:53:56 well, i wud use linux, but i cant get company of heroes to run on it 02:54:05 :'( 02:54:09 also i have to do all my assignments in ... omfg ... vb 02:54:19 not just any vb 02:54:21 vb fucking 6 02:54:27 pink teddies for the bosses ;-A 02:54:34 lol 02:54:58 lucky ive got my last high school exam in a few weeks and i can start my conversion to linux 02:55:03 Where do you go to school, and may I recommend you go to somewhere more prestigious, like the local degree mill? 02:55:13 Ah. High school. 02:55:16 im in australia 02:55:28 Who the fuck still uses VB6? 02:55:29 the it manager is a complete dumb ass 02:55:34 Who the fuck ever uses VB? 02:55:36 That shows. 02:55:55 he says he doesnt want to upgrade to 2005 because its .net and a completely different language 02:56:02 i had to stop my self from loling in front of him 02:56:28 The words "Visual Basic" say that it's a bad choice. 02:56:34 indeed 02:56:46 my teacher couldn't debug this line 02:56:54 textBoxMain.Text = Hello World! 02:57:04 (of course, you must remember that I've been coding since I was 8. . . Programming is. . . Simple.) 02:57:13 i love programming 02:57:54 But are you any good? 02:58:00 lol 02:58:03 i suppose 02:58:11 in the languages ive taken time to learn i guess 02:58:19 How long have you been coding? 02:58:23 hmm 02:58:40 when did dark reign 2 come out? cause i started programming in c code for their mods 02:58:51 i didnt realise it was c at the time though 02:58:57 2000. 02:58:58 and i had to program it in a text file 02:59:05 so since 2000 i guess 02:59:45 * pikhq has been coding for 10 years. :) 02:59:49 :-A 02:59:53 well you do 03:00:12 cool 03:00:27 "and i had to program it in a text file" <- err.. where d'you put it now, then? 03:00:57 the game interpreted it, it was actualy c, but it read structures and functions like it was 03:01:09 ill see if i can find an example 03:01:15 Then I doubt that it's C. 03:01:41 omg have they finally taken the dr2 site down? 03:02:03 archive.org it. 03:02:29 no, it wasnt c it was c style 03:02:35 scripting 03:03:25 gah its all zipped up in zwp 03:04:31 anyhow 03:04:45 i tried leanring c++ with opengl so i can make games 03:04:49 and it was fail 03:05:05 i could get the c++ but game engine architecture i was terrible at 03:05:54 well.. games are kinda "no man's job" 03:05:59 you know what i'm saying 03:06:44 not really 03:08:27 do you guys program in assembly ever/ 03:08:29 ?* 03:08:38 Guilty. 03:08:55 It's amazing how small you can make a "Hello, world!" program. 03:09:11 lol 03:09:33 i want to learn it after i learn how to do something significant in c 03:09:36 could be a while 03:10:01 At last count I was at 76 bytes. . . 03:10:14 shit 03:11:25 well 03:12:24 what kind of stuff do u program? just esoteric languages? 03:12:32 Mostly. 03:13:08 its way more interesting than trying to code an fps in c++ or ... game maker for that matter 03:14:58 Compilers are fun to write, too. 03:14:58 programming in esoteric? well.. the point is you never get anything usable with esoteric 03:15:17 not in esoteric 03:15:20 I beg to differ. 03:15:24 writing an interpreter 03:15:27 they're mostly made of showoff and fun 03:15:28 or likewise 03:15:40 * pikhq has written a game in Brainfuck. 03:15:49 wow 03:15:52 i want to see that 03:15:53 Granted, I cheated, via a language I developed that targets Brainfuck. . . 03:15:54 oh jesus 03:16:10 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/game.b IIRC. 03:16:23 hmm browsing these config files 5 years later tells me i didnt have any clue what the c prorgamming language was 03:16:41 game = usable, console game = fun. right 03:16:46 .. there you have it. 03:16:56 lol 03:17:13 Try googling "Lost Kingdom" for something more astounding. 03:17:45 in australia? 03:17:57 It's a larger game in Brainfuck. 03:18:48 holy piss 03:19:23 holy fucking christ 03:19:26 weel 03:20:01 now that was a _surprise_... japanese && anime && based on cards && echo "Hell yeah! ;E" 03:22:05 well 03:23:18 なぜ? 03:23:28 なな. 03:23:42 http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html 03:23:59 yea 03:24:00 なな?なぜそれと言ったか? 03:24:02 i downloaded it 03:24:06 2.5 mb source code 03:28:02 visual c++ can compile c code cant it? 03:28:26 I dunno. 03:28:33 Try Cygwin or Mingw. 03:30:03 20:23 03:33:05 Yeah. And? 03:33:42 and, 20:33 03:37:31 http://www.java2s.com/Code/C/Data-Structure-Algorithm/StackinC.htm is that an ok way to handle a stack? or wud there be a better way? 03:38:40 Eeew. 03:38:54 I recommend implementing it via a linked list. 03:39:00 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/dc.c.tar.bz2 03:40:26 damn 03:41:00 stack.c and stack.h are a decent stack implementation. 03:46:23 cool 03:46:35 ill have a go 03:51:38 -!- schad has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 05:13:56 -!- immibis has joined. 05:14:33 "....using Microsofts malicious software removal tool." <--- Microsoft's software removal tool is malicious? 05:15:52 * immibis is not surprised 05:19:20 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. When the chi"). 05:20:18 oh snap, somebody applied a restriction enzyme to immibis' quit message virus! 06:33:39 -!- bartw has quit (Connection timed out). 06:39:04 -!- SEO_DUDE38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:42:34 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 07:34:58 -!- schad has joined. 07:35:26 howzit 07:59:58 -!- schad_ has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:13:48 -!- schad__ has joined. 08:14:20 -!- schad__ has changed nick to staplegun. 08:18:15 -!- schad has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:27:41 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 08:29:10 -!- staplegun has joined. 08:29:27 anyone there? 08:32:38 -!- schad_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:35:12 t 08:45:38 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 10:38:48 -!- staplegun has joined. 10:39:13 hello 10:39:39 i think the reason that virus isn't spreading is that it's not self-modifying 10:40:53 pikhq: i win with 11 years! 10:41:20 (unless this is also about coding capabilities, in which case you most likely beat me ;)) 10:41:45 let's just hope oerjan doesn't see this 10:51:41 what kind of virus? 10:54:37 -!- jix has joined. 10:59:55 errr immibis' quit message virus 11:38:15 opinions here, since i'm not that good at designing gui:s anyone but me would enjoy, i'm making a program for drawing elecrical circuits, how should it behave when the window is resized? 11:39:36 i mean, should it have a fixed amount of divisions x- and y-wise, so that no matter what the size is, the grid would have the same amount of points; or should i have it just draw less of the circuit so that the distance betwen two points is fixed? 11:41:28 *between 11:51:02 imo it should just get bigger 11:51:06 i mena 11:51:08 it should scale 11:51:12 if u stretch the window 11:52:18 i already implemented the latter one 11:52:20 :) 11:52:33 oh well lol 11:52:42 it looks kinda nice, i'll add something to inc/dec the gridsize if necessary. 11:53:01 it hindsight the latter would be better for me, i have a 1920x1200 display lol 11:53:15 omg cool :P 11:53:32 too bad it cant help my python code .... 11:54:01 you mean the size of your window won't compensate for your lack of skills? 11:54:05 err 11:54:07 screen. 11:54:37 yea 11:54:40 exactly 11:54:44 heh 11:54:57 nah not lack of skills 11:55:03 absence of ability 11:55:20 yeah 11:55:56 oh my god 11:56:03 ? 11:56:04 magnets are unbelievably cool. 11:56:14 wot r u coding this in? 11:56:19 C 11:56:24 coool 11:56:29 what r u rendering it with? 11:56:32 trying to do without the ++ 11:56:35 you don't wanna know ;;) 11:56:58 mm 11:57:11 everyone tries to make me do ++ style casting, when c is far superior 11:58:30 haha, magnets xD 11:58:36 i should get back to coding... 11:58:57 weeee they hop so merrily 11:59:07 hehe 11:59:16 u toking about magnets irl? or the ones ur programming? 11:59:37 hehe real ones! 12:00:07 coool 12:00:11 the circuit thing is very primitive, it just knows basic logic ports, wires and err transmitters 12:00:30 is it a modelling tool? or just something for fun 12:00:34 "fun" 12:01:26 we are using this thing called TINA pro at school for this, it kinda sucks as it's just a trial version 12:01:47 ah 12:01:58 so i'm basically making this to be able to save my models 12:02:10 ic 12:02:12 i dunno if i'll add anything that actually let's you do anything complicated 12:02:44 make sure u add some easter eggs 12:03:27 i'll add one just for you 12:03:33 solid 12:03:48 do u ever code python? 12:03:56 yeah 12:04:00 more than anything else 12:04:50 try: data = source[py][px] + data 12:04:52 except: break 12:04:53 finally: px -= 1 12:04:55 no matter what, px will decrease by one right? even if the exception causes a break? (its in a while loop) 12:05:12 i think so. 12:05:18 i'm pretty sure so. 12:05:18 sweeet ..... 12:05:33 that saves me having to write a flag 12:05:35 =D 12:05:47 hehe 12:06:26 omfg .... 12:06:38 thats why it wasnt working i never actually set the variable to the users input ... 12:09:24 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:09:34 -!- jix has joined. 12:17:32 -!- tokigun_ has joined. 12:17:32 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:18:31 oh snap 12:42:28 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 13:34:48 -!- staplegun has joined. 13:35:21 woot i got fib 10000 to run on my esolang 13:35:40 cwl 13:35:55 $1>2><>+>%_ 13:35:57 <<>>{^ _ 13:35:58 ~ <10000 13:36:00 # 13:36:02 source code lol 13:36:24 how can i time it in python? 13:38:53 import time 13:39:06 time.clock() gives a number representing the current time 13:39:09 in seconds 13:39:21 i guess it's that unix timestamp or whaddyacallit 13:43:53 cool 13:46:16 hmph, i've really gotten lazy having used python for so long :P 13:46:46 printed fibonacci numbers up to 1,500,520,536,206,896,083,277 in 0.0194 seconds 13:46:48 :) 13:46:49 in python, everything takes a second to do, and never has bugs 13:47:01 lol i love python, i started learning it today 13:47:03 in c, i actually have to think about the details, and still i get bugs :| 13:47:22 and ive pretty much finished writing my esolang interpreter 13:47:26 what does that tell you :P 13:47:30 heh 13:48:22 now, if i can get hello world workin 13:50:18 can i see the spec? 13:50:25 i recall there was one 13:50:29 rrright? 13:51:12 staplegun: what the f is that? 13:51:53 spec? 13:52:48 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PHAWN 13:52:53 still in real early design 14:08:31 gah 14:08:39 soo messy 14:16:13 FINALLY 14:16:15 HELLO WORLD 14:16:20 ! 14:16:23 Huh? 14:17:02 ? 14:17:04 * SimonRC is crating a forthlike language, due to boredom 14:17:15 forthlike 14:17:17 ay 14:17:58 * SimonRC goes back to work 14:24:18 someone linked me to a site earlier where you could post code blocks and it would highlight in the language you specify 14:24:30 like a read only browser based syntax highlighter 14:26:01 meh, found a worth substitute 14:29:16 -!- Figs has joined. 14:29:29 Hello! 14:29:40 http://blog.wolfram.com/2007/10/the_prize_is_won_the_simplest.html <-- you guys see this yet? 14:39:23 ok 14:40:25 I thought it was kind of interesting since the solver was described as having a "background in mathematics and esoteric programming languages" :P 14:40:31 (the math aside) 14:40:57 lol 14:41:22 im happy cus i finally got a working version of my interpreter 14:41:33 made me think -- "Hey, I know some esoteric programmers... wait a sec, I wonder if this is one of them..." 14:41:49 yay :D 14:41:53 what interpreter? 14:42:11 revise: an interpreter for what? 14:46:47 um 14:46:52 my language 14:46:56 phawn 14:47:05 ah 14:47:10 what does it look like? 14:47:23 _ < 14:47:24 _ $33>100>_ 114^ 14:47:26 _<72<101<<108>^ 14:47:27 _. /^/<111>\87\>\32\> 14:47:29 &{{{{{{{{{{{{# 14:47:30 , Output: Hello World 14:47:32 or 14:47:39 :P 14:47:47 better yet 14:47:48 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PHAWN 14:48:11 cool 14:48:18 http://www.springerlink.com/content/uxuc20mnurg4qjug/ <-- DNA = UTM? Nifty. 14:49:02 I don't think I'd understand the chapter though :( 14:49:16 sounds intruguing 14:49:35 we need a DNA Esolang! ... assuming no one has done it yet 14:49:50 but ill stick to my ascii .. took me hours just to write my hello world example ... 14:49:59 hehe :) 14:50:24 it is actually most influenced by piet lol 14:50:50 hmm, imagine that it'd give you 4 'base pairs' like ZXCV or something, and you'd write lines like 14:50:53 ZX 14:50:55 CV 14:50:56 VC 14:50:58 XZ 14:51:14 i know the syntax 14:51:16 forget the name 14:51:23 ? 14:51:42 pairs of three would count as coding-units... 14:51:46 err... sets of three 14:51:50 pairs of three = wtf? :P 14:51:54 lol 14:52:21 yes... my pair of boots is actually three shoes... O.o 14:52:29 hmm 14:52:29 hehe 14:52:33 but imagine! 14:52:45 you could code "virtual Proteins" 14:53:05 lol 14:53:08 that would end up running in parallel... 14:53:43 they would "contort" to various mathematical shapes based on Figsics 14:53:53 or fishsticks 14:53:56 :P 14:54:18 I think I have invented a mental nightamre 14:54:20 *nightmare 14:54:28 tell me about it 14:54:28 too bad I can't write it 14:54:39 oh crap 14:54:41 it's 7 am 14:54:43 >.> 14:54:47 I've been up all night again 14:54:52 whee. 14:55:02 well, at least there's not school tomorrow 14:55:07 or today... 14:55:25 lol 14:55:29 doing wot .... 14:55:30 California fires 14:55:39 school got cancelled. 14:56:30 hey 14:56:36 if I got two turing machines together... 14:56:39 awesome 14:56:48 so that each time I need to look up a state 14:56:55 it launches another machine... 14:57:10 is that more complicated than a single turing machine? 14:57:20 i think uve been awake too long :D 14:57:25 yes :P 14:57:30 maybe 14:57:43 16 hours? 14:57:59 yeah, I should be going to bed, in theory 14:58:03 damn ye paper! 14:58:09 ... I've been trying to write this paper 14:58:11 since I got up 14:58:16 ...wtf am I doing here? :P 14:58:20 lol 14:58:22 *brain random* 14:58:24 wots it on? 14:58:35 summary of a sci. am. article 14:58:39 2 pages 14:58:48 (the argument in the article, not the article itself) 14:58:57 and 2 pages = amt for me to write 14:59:01 (the article itself is longer) 14:59:02 lol 14:59:05 (durh :P) 14:59:43 seriously though, can I have a turing machine with an infinite number of states? O.o 14:59:55 i suppose 14:59:55 does that even make sense? O.o 15:00:01 depends how many turing machines u can handle 15:00:02 my brain must be broken 15:05:44 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:08:56 huh 15:09:02 China + Japan are in a space race? 15:12:40 -!- jix has joined. 15:13:03 http://blog.wolfram.com/2007/10/the_prize_is_won_the_simplest.html?lid=title 15:13:26 *points up* 15:13:45 :D 15:13:56 still cool though 15:14:25 * Figs prods bsmntbombdood and says "Hi!" 15:14:49 oh heh 15:15:04 hmm 15:15:08 wtf, it smells like smoke 15:15:12 brb 15:23:12 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:26:40 im goin to bed 15:26:42 night all 15:26:52 wow, you're still here? 15:26:54 from yesterday? 15:29:02 nah 15:29:07 not the whole time 15:29:17 but i was up for a while working on stuff 15:29:21 anyways cyas 15:29:23 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 15:29:43 my bf interp only kind of works =( 15:30:33 b ack 15:30:41 oh 15:30:45 missed him by a minute 15:30:50 hi ehird` 15:30:54 * Figs is back 15:31:04 hi i'm perfecting my bf interpreter 15:31:09 kewl 15:31:17 I wrote a BF interpreter a while back... 15:31:25 hopefully it should run The Craziest BF Program Ever (the Lost Kingdom text adventure) smoothly 15:31:29 I forgot about that :P 15:31:33 but right now it just spews out "Hangup" and dies 15:31:33 yay 15:31:39 oh :( 15:31:45 oh? 15:31:50 I wonder if my program would work 15:31:52 hmm 15:31:54 doubt it :P 15:31:59 how long is the program? 15:32:12 2 megabytes 15:32:15 of bf code 15:32:16 yeah 15:32:18 it won't fit 15:32:19 (it's compiled from basic) 15:32:30 bloat! 15:32:31 j/k 15:32:34 heh 15:32:53 I only wrote my program to accept up to 9999 15:32:57 so that won't fit :P 15:33:08 mine dynamically resizes all of its storages 15:33:09 :D 15:33:27 IIRC, mine you type in by hand at the prompt, so... 15:33:31 :P 15:33:34 if you have enough memory you can store up to MAX_UINT (maximum unsigned int value) elements in each 15:33:41 kewl :) 15:33:51 On a 32bit system that's 4,294,967,295 elements in each array 15:33:51 (why with a k? I don't know.) 15:33:55 ;) 15:34:02 past that it'll just die but i doubt i have to worry ;) 15:34:15 if it used 64-bit ints? Then 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 15:34:41 ;) 15:34:47 well, in theory... 15:34:53 you could load it from the file 15:35:03 yeah 15:35:04 and only work with a small subset of the bytes ... 15:35:05 of course 15:35:08 but eh 15:35:21 you will need shitloads of RAM anyway to run a program of that size ;) 15:35:24 and cpu 15:35:29 (it pre-parses brackets) 15:35:57 also, mine can save and load state 15:36:00 "No one will ever need more than 640K of RAM" (BIll Gates) 15:36:10 SIGSUSP (aka ^Z) asks for a file name and then saves a dump to it 15:36:17 [did I get that right?] 15:36:25 you can then reload the dump (and the source file if you did not include it with the dump) and it'll resume from there 15:36:34 this is because i am going to write a Forth system in brainfuck 15:36:37 so that will be how i save images 15:36:39 :D 15:36:46 yikes. 15:37:26 I need to finish that fucking parser system... 15:37:27 :P 15:37:33 or move to a better language 15:37:36 maybe D 15:37:51 does D have operator overloading? 15:37:54 yes 15:37:54 but 15:38:03 C is the best for writing interpreters for esolangs, most of the time 15:38:09 since speed is good when your language itself is fscking slow 15:38:23 this isn't for an eso-lang... 15:38:23 my debug output is great 15:38:24 LOL EXPANDO 15:38:24 lol yeh 15:38:24 LOL EXPANDO 15:38:24 lol yeh 15:38:24 Hangup 15:38:27 (at this point :) 15:39:00 it was me ol' general parser system 15:39:18 the one that looks like 15:39:20 x >> y >> z 15:39:32 it ain't CS, I don't think 15:39:35 Just CF... 15:39:48 since I don't allow x Y z = A >> B >> C... 15:40:00 just Y = A >> B >> C 15:40:33 sadly, I don't know how to handle errors in ambiguous grammars :( 15:41:16 or hell 15:41:24 how to even get around some of the issues of ambiguity 15:41:38 okay, my problem is this line: memset(new + *current, 0, try); 15:41:44 when resizing the code array to 2000 elements 15:41:58 *current is the previous size of the array, try is - AHA 15:42:03 i need try - *current 15:42:04 :-) 15:42:09 it's segfaulting because it's overflowing the memory 15:42:14 yay :) 15:42:17 :( 15:42:28 memory overflow shouldn't get a :) from me 15:42:29 :P 15:42:47 well... it is marginally better now 15:42:51 as in, it gets a bit further ;) 15:42:54 but i have a segfault LATER... 15:42:58 gdb time 15:43:10 whoo! 15:43:11 :( 15:43:19 Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 15:43:19 0x00401702 in main (argc=2, argv=0x662008) at bf.c:131 15:43:19 131brackets[code_ptr] = stack[stack_ptr]; 15:43:26 crazy 15:43:35 yow 15:43:37 sigh, CF ambiguity is undecidable 15:43:44 what fun 15:43:44 just_read = 6723392 15:43:54 that's a lot of just read 15:43:54 :P 15:44:01 lol 15:44:08 i'm using fread 15:44:08 what is RIS? 15:44:09 :/ 15:44:14 RIS? 15:44:16 yeah 15:44:25 it says "Exprot this chapter as RIS|Text" 15:44:29 *export 15:44:43 no idea 15:45:13 wait, wtf, it's almost 8 am?! 15:45:42 oh no now you're doing to leave 15:45:43 :P 15:46:16 no, I'm going to have to figure out how to write my essay real fast 15:46:35 I was supposed to turn it in almost 15 hours ago... 15:46:35 :( maybe it's my crazy casting 15:46:48 i have this: expand_array((unsigned char **)&stack, &stack_size); 15:46:50 and similar things 15:46:57 @.@ 15:47:06 hehe, I've had my head in java for too long at this point 15:47:15 yeah well i don't want to duplicate my expand_array code 15:47:17 it's quite clever 15:47:18 :-) 15:47:22 brainwashing, I say... 15:47:35 Ooh! http://www.springerlink.com/content/fp7p38r0333p1441/fulltext.pdf 15:48:04 i just added this debug message 15:48:05 printf("I'm in ur ptrs, not segfaulting\n"); 15:48:07 do i go to hell now? 15:48:12 I should just give all failure points for error, shouldn't I? 15:48:15 (as a list...) 15:48:24 lollllll 15:48:25 I'm in ur ptrs, not segfaulting 15:48:25 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 15:48:39 nice 15:48:49 :P 15:49:24 damn my segfault isn't even in expand_array 15:50:26 :( 15:50:28 aww 15:50:33 step through? 15:50:48 i'm not stepping through, it reads like half the file before dying 15:50:55 i don't have ten years :P 15:51:00 lol 15:51:09 make it catch in a special place 15:51:45 (I'm an evil masochistic bastard, I guess, but *cough* setjmp + goto */cough*) 15:51:55 brackets[code_ptr] = stack[stack_ptr]; 15:51:55 brackets[stack[stack_ptr]] = code_ptr; 15:52:00 the segfault happens on these two 15:52:21 you be askin' da wrong guy 15:52:23 :P 15:52:29 i'm just talking to no-one 15:52:29 hehe 15:52:31 I left my pointers at the door 15:52:37 hacking away in urxvt and gvim 15:52:37 when I started Java-class :P 15:52:44 ... on windows, because i'm stuck on a windows box right now 15:52:46 hooray for cygwin 15:52:49 haha :D 15:52:50 i get my nice gvim 15:53:01 I hate gvim 15:53:02 with my nice X interface 15:53:07 not any of that lame windows gvim 15:53:15 this stuff anti-aliases text properly 15:53:16 ;) 15:53:29 I've had to use it on Red Hat for CS... 15:53:38 and I hate not being able to highlight shit 15:53:46 and use what I'm used to doing in a text editor 15:53:48 :P 15:54:10 I started using something else. 15:54:11 you can highlight shit 15:54:15 i guess you just don't know vim 15:54:19 no, I don't :P 15:54:20 but even gvim, lets you use even the mouse to highlight 15:54:30 not my gvim 15:54:32 it lets you scroll with a scroll-wheel... it's practically notepad except it's modal 15:54:48 i use a lot of its notepaddy features actually 15:54:48 maybe the way they have it configured here is weird 15:54:58 i am guilty of selecting text with the mouse and pressing d 15:55:00 I am a noob at it though :P 15:55:03 i also use the scrollbar a lot 15:55:12 but i like vim's commands, so 15:55:15 dd 15:55:16 ;) 15:55:17 :P 15:55:48 I started using a different program 15:55:52 I forget the name 15:56:09 emacs? :P 15:56:10 naw 15:56:11 nano? 15:56:13 no 15:56:17 pine? 15:56:18 aka nano 15:56:20 ;) 15:56:28 I think it was something generic like 'text' 15:56:34 memory != good 15:57:20 I'll play with it later and babble again another day 15:57:27 when school starts again 15:57:32 OK: 15:57:32 123579 VS 160000 15:57:32 123577 VS 160000 15:57:32 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 15:57:35 (closed all week due to fire) 15:57:41 both of the first two numbers are lesser than the latter 15:57:44 so why am i getting a segfault 15:57:56 what pointer? 15:57:58 and what cmp? 15:58:04 printf("OK: \n"); 15:58:04 printf("%i VS %i\n", code_ptr, brackets_size); 15:58:04 printf("%i VS %i\n", stack[stack_ptr], brackets_size); 15:58:04 brackets[code_ptr] = stack[stack_ptr]; 15:58:04 brackets[stack[stack_ptr]] = code_ptr; 15:58:05 printf("worked\n"); 15:58:33 since they're both within the boundries of brackets-size as you can see in my previous paste 15:58:39 why on earth would it segfault on those brackets lines 15:58:52 (x_ptr is an int index of an array, always) 15:59:04 x_size is the size of the x array 15:59:26 *shrug* 15:59:52 too much recursion? 16:00:01 i don't recurse, in the whole thing 16:00:03 and gdb tells me that 16:00:04 brackets[code_ptr] = stack[stack_ptr]; 16:00:05 then not that :P 16:00:07 is the line at fault 16:00:17 gdb always gives me BS 16:00:17 aha 16:00:18 wtf 16:00:20 look at this: 16:00:25 wait no 16:00:27 and hm 16:00:27 maybe 16:00:33 but the debug output is right 16:00:36 it prints the ones before 16:00:38 and not the ones after 16:00:45 but code_ptr gmm 16:00:59 no idea 16:02:54 hehe, in my interpreter 16:02:59 in 1.563s 16:03:06 +[>+] has already forced the interpreter 16:03:09 to resize to 30720000 cells 16:03:22 (and it resizes to current*2 by default -- so that's pretty impressive) 16:03:52 (it also happens to be extremely fast at generating fibonacci numbers) 16:04:10 whoo! :P 16:04:54 touch. touch. touch touch. touch touch touch. touch touch touch touch touch... 16:05:05 hehe 16:05:10 XKCD >:D 16:05:15 might get a bit hard after the first few.. 16:05:24 touch touch touch... (ten years) ...touch touch touch touch ... 16:05:30 :P 16:10:18 give me a program to test my interp with 16:11:01 +++[>++++++++++++<-]>. 16:11:11 !bf +++[>++++++++++++<-]>. 16:11:15 $ 16:11:47 it runs in 0.015 seconds, and outputs $ 16:11:53 yay 16:12:01 +[] ? 16:12:18 it runs in infinity seconds and outputs nothing 16:12:18 :P 16:12:21 whoo! 16:12:26 did the computer tell you that? :P 16:12:26 but, it just sits there, obviously 16:12:33 haha 16:12:34 ;) 16:12:34 yes it did 16:12:39 i have a halting problem solver built in 16:12:45 rofl 16:12:56 oh, +[] also consumes 99% cpu 16:12:58 not 100%, though 16:12:59 +[>>+<<] 16:13:02 it goes from 94%-99% 16:13:08 but it doesn't lag the sytsem, heh 16:13:30 heh, I should write that like 16:13:35 +[>>+<<]+ 16:13:37 it looks cooler 16:13:46 that one also takes up insane amounts of cpu 16:13:48 but hangs there memory-wise 16:13:52 :P 16:13:53 as, of course, it wraps from 255 to 0 16:14:04 of course, it will use 99% cpu most of the time 16:14:06 that's expected 16:14:17 +[>+<->>++<->]+ 16:14:26 if you're not getting input or bottlenecked by output, you want to execute the instructions as fast as possible 16:14:27 and mine does 16:14:33 so, i think that's desired behaviour 16:14:37 :) 16:14:38 ok 16:14:44 also, it uses a little over 1mb of ram by default it seems 16:14:46 remember, this is windows 16:14:52 so that overhead will be MUCH LESS on other os 16:14:58 ,[>,]<[.<] 16:15:00 i'll try +[>+<->>++<->]+ 16:15:07 and i tried the reverse program a while ago 16:15:11 :P 16:15:13 it runs basically as fast as the equivilant c program 16:15:16 kewl 16:15:23 most trivial programs do 16:15:33 it doesn't even optimize 16:15:55 []_[] >> -[-]-_-[-] << []_[] 16:16:06 it just pre-parses the brackets so that [ and ] are just a conditional followed by setting the code pointer to the entry in the array 16:16:19 also +[>+<->>++<->]+ just biggifies the array, heh 16:16:24 :P 16:16:26 that's the idea 16:16:28 it grows very fast 16:16:28 sorta 16:16:45 does that other program work? 16:16:50 wait 16:16:51 (are you doing wrap-around?) 16:16:55 +[>+<->>++<->]+, when run for 10.250s 16:17:01 resizes the array to 122880000 16:17:06 whoo! :P 16:17:11 (it'll use a lot less though, just over 61440000) 16:17:15 since, of course, it resizes to double 16:17:37 mine does 0-255 wrap around yes 16:17:38 and infinite tape 16:17:40 i'll run []_[] >> -[-]-_-[-] << []_[] 16:17:53 it just terminates 16:17:55 immediately 16:17:57 :P 16:17:59 it should 16:18:04 but 16:18:06 well, in 0.016s 16:18:08 :P 16:18:10 but it's immediate to my eyes ;) 16:18:11 yeah 16:18:22 it's basically a little slower than a nop program haha 16:18:38 d(O_O)b <[Hello Friggen World] 16:18:59 I wrote a poem in a java app before 16:19:05 i can tell you without even testing that one 16:19:10 it will just execute with "error: tape underflow" 16:19:15 :P 16:19:15 ok 16:19:17 since you can't go < from element 0 16:19:20 ah 16:19:23 ;) 16:19:39 >-< ... >-< 16:19:48 (in old-style implementations it'd wrap around to the last cell, but of course with an "infinite tape" (well, dynamically resized, but from BF it is percieved as infinite, it makes no sense) 16:20:01 expanding universe! 16:20:02 :P 16:20:03 that runs in the same time as your nop program 16:20:10 i.e. 0.016s 16:20:14 it should give 3 nulls as outputs 16:20:17 and produces three null bytes 16:20:21 obviously 16:21:18 "error: unmatched [" is a kimian quine in my implementation 16:21:18 :-) 16:21:38 "error: unmatched ] at 17" is a vaguely more interesting one 16:22:27 (lim x->0 d/dx x^2+2x+1) [>+++<]>. 16:22:54 runs forever, seemingly 16:23:08 ah. dur 16:23:08 by the way 16:23:11 what platform are you on? 16:23:12 me = stupid with that. 16:23:18 windoze 16:23:21 please say linux, please say linux, please say linux so you can run c2bf 16:23:22 DAMNIT 16:23:31 :( 16:23:36 i wanted to try hello world 16:23:57 hey 16:24:03 do you know anything about writing a forth? 16:24:15 nope 16:24:22 damn 16:24:43 do you want to read http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt and http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.f.txt as a combined implementation-tutorial and then help me implement BrainForth? ;) 16:24:49 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 16:25:01 If I had time :( 16:25:10 aww ok :P 16:25:10 sadly, I am procrastinating already 16:25:12 it's short though 16:25:13 haha 16:25:19 and that's just a hello world 16:25:22 yes 16:25:28 I thought you wanted a hello world? 16:25:39 (I pulled it out of wikipedia magic land) 16:26:11 ,----------[----------------------.,----------] 16:26:18 hello world /from c2bf/ 16:28:32 http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=173&a=3993 beware, disturbing! 16:30:12 hah 16:30:36 http://ineedawriter.com/blog/2007/10/contextual-advertising-mistakes.html 16:32:41 argh :P 16:32:45 "shake and bake" 16:32:49 what a terrible thing to say 16:32:54 [about california] 16:33:14 -- apparently there was a minor earthquake earlier ;P 16:33:25 haha 16:33:37 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2400/1634346479_af8e068ebd.jpg?v=0 16:33:44 yes :P 16:33:51 I like the one at the end 16:33:53 about the ads 16:34:09 also the black mcdonald's ad 16:34:10 :P 16:34:44 i love the last video one 16:34:52 didn't watch it 16:35:02 :p 16:50:29 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:58:45 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 16:59:32 http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcreeves2000/139184796/ 17:08:47 * ehird` is writing a simple stack-based-language-to-BF compiler 17:09:01 it's really simple 17:09:10 you just do: 17:09:25 name call call call ; another call call call 17:09:26 etc 17:09:41 i.e. first word is the new word to define's name, after that what words to call 17:09:46 ; terminates the definition and starts again 17:09:49 the last word defined is called 17:17:32 http://pastie.caboo.se/pastes/93052 i have never heard of this language before 17:17:35 is it TC? i don't think so 17:19:52 I am not sure 17:20:12 certainly i doubt you can write a bf interpreter in it 17:20:17 but, what about a tag machine? 17:20:19 that's the simplest 17:20:27 wait, it doesn't have any control structure 17:20:28 heh 17:20:35 can you even test for equality? 17:20:45 it doesn't matter, there's no control structure 17:20:47 and yeah you can 17:20:48 with XOR 17:20:52 it has xor? 17:20:53 XOR is not-equal 17:20:57 ^ is xor in ruby 17:21:02 this is ruby? 17:21:13 that interpreter is in ruby, yes... 17:21:17 I thought it was python :P 17:21:20 but I don't use either 17:21:22 so :P 17:21:25 does python have "end"? ;) 17:21:29 I don't know 17:21:31 no 17:21:33 I don't use either :P 17:21:35 python's blocks are indentation based 17:21:37 instead of: 17:21:46 if blah: 17:21:46 stuff 17:21:46 end 17:21:47 it's: 17:21:48 if blah 17:21:50 stuff 17:21:55 heh 17:22:40 can you add or subtract? 17:22:53 XOR is add without carry... 17:23:03 can you branch? :P 17:23:09 nope, i told you that already 17:23:11 heh 17:23:20 you MIGHT be able to simulate a tag machine in it, rhough 17:23:35 could you push pop the stack to simulate branching? 17:23:40 oh wait 17:23:43 :P 17:23:48 nevermind 17:23:57 *Engage brain before talking* 17:24:09 http://www.contextfreeart.org/ i am going to play around with this 17:24:19 a logo that produces better quality images, and can recurse /infinitely/? 17:24:38 seriously. it can recurse to infinite depth as long as the drawings small to -infinity in size 17:24:45 which is... very often 17:25:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:33:13 http://eightsolid.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/18.jpg 17:35:13 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 17:46:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:52:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:53:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:58:29 bbl 17:58:30 -!- Figs has left (?). 18:00:12 * ehird` ponders whether you can draw a sierpinski triangle in cfdg 18:29:15 oklopol: ABANDON ALL HOPE 18:29:27 o.O 18:30:11 let's just hope oerjan doesn't see this 18:32:54 g 18:32:55 *ah 18:44:08 test 18:44:39 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 18:47:24 oerjan: i fixed my BF interpreter :-) 18:47:35 now it works on EVERYTHING aprat from that 2mb text adventure (and i'm trying to fix tha) 18:47:52 oklopol: i fixed my sex organs :-) 18:49:40 bsmntbombdood: i am sure he is interested 18:55:16 oh yes he is 19:05:36 -!- importantshock has joined. 19:12:57 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 19:13:48 -!- jix has quit ("scheiß usb kack ding etwas irgndwie"). 19:19:14 -!- jix has joined. 19:28:34 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:30:01 -!- jix has joined. 19:40:09 woot, my brainfuck interp no longer crashes on LostKng.b 19:40:16 however, it lags forever 19:40:20 so something is taking Too Long 19:40:52 ah, it's just slow execution 19:40:53 heh 19:41:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:41:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Connection reset by peer). 19:41:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:51:25 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:51:49 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:02:53 !bf16 -. 20:02:55 20:02:58 !bf32 -. 20:02:59 20:03:49 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 20:08:55 god damn 20:09:11 the other guy in this room is loudly stuffing his face with popcorn and grunting 20:36:17 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 20:37:22 -!- jix has joined. 20:38:15 bsmntbombdood: pix 20:38:27 o 20:38:27 o 20:38:56 pix of his fixed sex organs, or the other guy? 20:39:51 surprise me 20:47:16 lawl 20:48:12 oklopol: pix of my genitals are illegal :( 20:49:12 i would get charged with the production of child pornography and child molestation 20:49:39 and transporting child pornography across state lines 20:49:54 Hmmmm ........ I wonder if you can be charged for making child pornography of yourself :P 20:50:00 GregorR: you can 20:50:07 GregorR: case law proves it 20:50:09 Fascinating. 20:50:55 :| 20:50:58 that's sick 20:51:07 given the minimum sentences for those i would go to jail for at least 15 years or so on conviction 20:51:47 it would be the ultimate irony when they charged me as an adult 20:51:52 that would also be a crime in my part 20:51:53 hehe 20:51:59 yep 20:52:01 but that i can understand 20:52:13 well, not really. 20:52:20 but a bit easier. 20:52:37 looking isn't all that dangerous in my opinion. 20:53:51 does .fi have extradition shit with .us? 20:54:26 i don't know 20:54:44 i just learned that word. 20:55:44 teach me a word! 20:55:52 :O 20:56:00 i think you know more words than me 20:56:11 that doesn't mean i know all the words that you know 20:56:21 and you know more words than mean, considering all languages 20:56:40 possibly. 20:57:36 i should use my irc logs to find how many words i us 20:57:43 heh 20:57:50 hrm 20:57:54 whats the awk to do that? 20:58:48 i prolly at least have known a lot of english words you don't, since i used to browse the dictionary quite a lot, but i can't really conjure anything up just like that :< 20:59:42 s/a lot/a few 20:59:49 like 0.1 20:59:54 in hexadecimal 21:00:05 (also negative) 21:00:09 pizza -> 21:02:00 bsmntbombdood: i don't know, but it's "" in WordUsage 21:02:31 it's like 10 lines of python 21:03:37 no 21:03:42 i must do it with awk 21:03:48 actually it's one line of python 21:03:57 doubt that :| 21:04:06 well, if you have a string of all the text he's said. 21:04:38 then i'd say it's 3 21:05:07 um no 21:05:16 it's something like: 21:06:15 [a[i] for i in range(len(a)) if not a[i] in a[i+1:]] 21:06:16 hehe 21:06:18 you're right 21:06:29 dict((w, said.count(w)) for w in dict(map(lambda i: (i,1),said.split(" "))).keys()) 21:06:29 somehow i insisted on using a dict 21:06:40 you need a dict 21:06:42 returns {word: count, ...} for each word, with no duplicates 21:06:47 bsmntbombdood: no 21:06:49 or else it takes quadratic time 21:06:50 (that is what the crazy lambda trick is for) 21:06:54 -!- bartw has joined. 21:07:00 you don't *need* it 21:07:04 assuming said is "i said this line and then this line abc abc def" 21:07:08 for linear time you do 21:07:09 i.e. a string of all his text 21:08:15 -!- INTERCAL has joined. 21:09:08 sorted((w, said.count(w)) for w in dict(map(lambda i: (i,1),said.split(" "))).keys()) <-- sorted list version 21:09:11 most-used first 21:09:14 ;) 21:09:34 count don't word of course 21:09:35 oops 21:09:37 *work 21:09:37 i forgot about set() 21:09:45 import Data.Set; main = interact $ show . size . fromList . words 21:09:52 why doesn't count work 21:09:53 it works fine 21:09:58 (you knew i couldn't resist, right?) 21:10:00 >>> said="i said this and that" 21:10:00 >>> dict([(w, said.count(w)) for w in dict(map(lambda i: (i,1),said.split(" "))).keys()]) 21:10:00 {'i': 3, 'this': 1, 'and': 1, 'said': 1, 'that': 1} 21:10:07 pretty trivially 21:10:15 hm, wtf 21:10:20 oh, i see 21:10:23 err isn't that obvious 21:10:24 yeah 21:10:29 wait 21:10:32 i'll improve it incrementally 21:10:47 dict((w, said.count(w)) for w in set(said.split(" "))) 21:11:09 er 21:11:29 yep 21:11:30 that works 21:11:50 again, replace "dict" with "sorted" for a sorted list of (word, usage) 21:11:51 except you lose the linearity 21:11:57 whatever 21:11:59 it's fast enough 21:12:37 mine is better 21:12:41 !! 21:13:58 oklotalk!! set split Saidstuff 21:15:25 ListLang! {for \e, said, [e,count], \unique} 21:15:30 why not {freq Saidstuff}, adding built-in functions is easy when you don't have an implementation 21:15:32 (note: has no implementation, yet) 21:27:17 @src RealFrac 21:27:27 oh noes, he's back! 21:27:32 /query lambdabot 21:27:36 ;P 21:27:50 and ehird` is back misunderstanding 21:27:55 presumably 21:28:00 explain? :P 21:28:53 afaic recall, i have not yet done that while trying to use lambdabot for anything other than demonstrating on #haskell... 21:29:26 ok, what were you doing then? :P 21:29:55 er, did i use too many negatives? 21:32:25 i was demonstrating on #haskell 21:32:32 ah 21:32:32 :P 21:37:31 NEAR-IMPOSSIBLE TASK #341: implementing an associative array in brainfuck 21:38:24 depends 21:38:31 if you do char->char, it's pretty trivial 21:38:40 or any fixed size 21:38:49 string->char or string->string 21:38:56 latter more impressive, former more realistic 21:39:03 hmm... kay 21:39:06 ah 21:39:54 I think C2BF is probably sufficient to make that right now :P 21:39:58 if you can do string->(string, char) you're well on your way to a markov chain in BF ;) 21:40:15 GregorR: i can't run c2bf on any platform i run 21:40:18 string->string=string->char 21:40:22 --- 21:40:23 eh sorry 21:40:25 ehird`: Whaaaaaaaaaaa? 21:40:25 (windows right now, unfortunately. OS X most of the time) 21:40:30 string->string=string->(string,char) 21:40:35 it segfaults on OS X :< 21:40:40 Awesometude! 21:40:47 thanks :p 21:40:54 oklopol: good point 21:40:54 hey 21:41:08 i think that could actually be possible 21:41:10 very slow but possibl 21:41:10 e 21:41:34 but of course no way to get a random number in brainfuck (you can get a 'random-looking' number using cellular automata and the like but it's the same on each run) 21:41:41 so it'd spew the same things out over and over 21:41:59 err 21:42:04 unless... you hashed up all of the data in the hash table (and presumably other used memory) and used it as a seed each time it's updated... 21:42:08 i don't think it matters if the hash table is predictable... 21:42:14 oklopol: no, for a markov chain 21:42:17 ah. 21:43:26 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:47:25 oklopol: what text editor do you use, by the way? 21:47:26 i use vim 21:48:33 vi / wordpad 21:49:01 old vi? 21:49:03 leet ;) 21:49:20 you actually run nvi? 21:49:29 or vim called as vi 21:50:04 wordpad is almost perfect, occasionally it changes fonts at random, and it doesn't have an option to level text on both ends, but otherwise 21:50:09 vi i've just used a few times. 21:50:21 wordpad doesn't do much 21:50:24 like, say, syntax highlighting. 21:50:35 http://files.method-missing.org/pics/pic3.jpg << which wire is connected the wrong way 21:50:46 the blue one 21:50:46 in fact, that's all i really need in a text editor 21:51:02 oklopol: which blue one? 21:51:04 good search+replace algorithm, reasonable navigation/insertation/deletion keys, and syntax highlihgting 21:51:07 i don't use auto-indent 21:51:11 jix: the one in the middle 21:51:25 hmm my sound laggs 21:51:33 auto-indent is nice except it usually fails. 21:52:09 but at least i want auto-indent the next line the same as the current line 21:52:33 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 21:52:54 yeah, but now sleep -> 21:53:01 i slept all day yesterday 21:53:35 i don't even auto-indent the next line 21:53:37 meh, i'm weird 21:53:48 but my programs rarely go above 3 amounts of indentation 21:53:51 and basically never go over 4 21:55:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 21:55:50 Um.. I hard-reset out of Linux into Windows, tried playing a game in Windows, safe-reset, went back into Linux... and that nick was still alive? 21:56:11 It is VERY odd to see your own nick disappear when you're not expecting it 22:00:08 I've seen a message of mine arrive from one nick after I'd already been disconnected, logged in as another nick and started conversing with it. 22:02:34 just as long as it doesn't converse back :D 22:13:03 lawl 22:13:13 my dad's exhaust pipe fell off 22:13:22 i fixed it with my shoelace >_< 22:13:51 just as long as it wasn't the brakes 22:14:04 -!- INTERCAL has quit. 22:16:30 one interesting thing related to text-generation bots is that some of them can imitate other users 22:16:36 i always wondered what a conversation with myself would be like 22:17:03 just as long as they don't imitate me 22:17:24 i should make one that imitates whoever talks to it :-) 22:26:27 markoooooooooov chain 22:27:43 i'm coding one now incidentally 22:30:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:37:24 -!- staplegun has joined. 22:37:50 howzit 22:39:41 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:41:18 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:45:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:53:47 ... 22:55:10 sheesh 22:55:13 some people have lives 22:56:37 lol 22:57:30 Lies. 22:57:34 LIES 22:57:45 @#$>>+_---_+ 22:58:13 That's either a smiley representing an extremely deformed man, or a very strange bit of code in a language I don't recognize. 22:58:34 it's runnable until it reches the _ 22:59:00 but all it will do is push 0 on the stack twice, add it and then terminate from error 23:00:28 python must be the greatest language ever 23:08:41 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:10:58 ... 23:12:23 back 23:14:02 who wants to help me get linux set up :D 23:14:13 do it yourself 23:14:36 just what i expect from a linux community ... 23:14:48 since when is this a linux community 23:14:54 since i said so 23:30:29 This is the esolang community. 23:30:40 And setting up linux is not that difficult, oddly enough. 23:31:13 I hate to brag, but I first did it when I was 12. . . 23:31:40 pikhq: i first did it earlier than you did! ;) 23:31:43 haha 23:31:53 "youngest person to set up linux" competition, in #esoteric, time: now 23:31:56 ehird`: But which distro was it? 23:32:07 pikhq: i cannot recall right now, i'll give it a think 23:32:09 but i was about 10 23:32:11 Slackware for me. 23:32:19 ok, you probably win 23:32:24 i can barely set up slackware even now, haha 23:34:14 I was running it in the womb. 23:34:19 I had to port it to human cells first. 23:34:23 GregorR: tricky 23:34:32 lots of hieisenbugs i'd imagine 23:34:37 err, typo 23:35:05 Well, it's probabilistic, yes, but redundancy allows the probabilities to be >99.99999% in all cases. 23:35:15 did you distribute it? 23:35:44 I couldn't get a consistent Internet connection, and now the plans are lost :( 23:36:02 it's a bitch to get a trans-womb internet connection installed 23:36:06 i should know, i've tried 23:36:59 jesus christ 23:37:26 I think NetBSD runs on it, but I haven't seen a Linux port, no. 23:37:43 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 23:37:48 lawl 23:37:55 he used chatspeak anyway, no big loss 23:37:57 ;) 23:38:08 Apparently the suggestion of ChristBSD was offensive :P 23:38:19 hahaha 23:38:26 It's not ChristBSD, though. . . 23:38:29 SoulBSD. 23:38:34 A bit more general. ;) 23:38:36 GodBSD 23:38:46 "It Runs The Universe..." (literally) 23:39:02 Not quite. 23:39:05 gosh imagine the race conditions in universe 23:39:15 The Universe is in Lisp. 23:39:30 no, it was hacked together in perl 23:39:49 [i would say something to the effect of, "points for the reference" but everyone here probably reads xkcd religiously, so.] 23:52:30 "of course, you are not the world. worlds sure are not the world." 2007-10-25: 00:32:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection timed out). 00:45:36 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:00:54 -!- staplegun has joined. 01:03:09 howzit 01:03:19 1; 01:03:33 (//_-) 01:06:15 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .._,,-~~~-,-,,_ 01:06:16 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ... ,,---,,_... ...,-~",-":__-,: : :"-,:::"'~,, 01:06:19 .,,-~~--,, ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...|... ... ,~": : --,,:"~,,-"::::/:,-". . ."'~-,,: \,::::_,,"~-,, 01:06:20 /: : : : : : :"'~-,,... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |... ... /: : : : :~"'\,: \::__/:|o--,,. . . . .\,: ¯¯: : : : : :"-, 01:06:22 \: : : : : : : : : : :""~,,... ... ... ... ... ... ... |... ... .\: : : : : :,,-"~": : : "'~~-,:"'~-,,_|: : :,-"¯¯¯¯"-,:| 01:06:24 .'~,: : : : : : : : : : : : :"'~-,,_... ... ... ... ...|... ... .."-,_: ,-" : : : : : : : : : : : "~,--~": : (o~--,,_. . |:| 01:06:25 ... ."'~-,,: : : : : : : : : : : : :"-,~--,... ... ... |... ... ... ...,/: : : : : : ,,--,-,~-,,: : :"~-,,: : :"~,___:"-/,/__ 01:06:27 ... ... ...,"~"~--,,_,,-~"`"`": : "-,::"'~~--,,_..| ... ... ... ..|: : : ,: :,-". ,-"./. . . ."-,,_: : :"~-~": : : :"'-,,~,:"-,, 01:06:29 ... ... .,/: : : : --,,:|: : : : : : : : :"-,,::::::::::::"~--,,_... ... \: : :|: /. .,/. . |. . . ,-".|. "~,,_____,,,,,__:\: : : : | 01:06:32 ... ... .|: : : : : : : "|: : : : : : :,: : : :\:::::::::::::::::::::"'~~-,,"-,:|: |. /. . . .|. .,-". . |. ,-"'. \. . .,/|. . . .",:\: : ,/ 01:06:35 ... ... ..\, : : : : : ,/ : : : : : : :|: : : ,/::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::"\: "-,,___,\,/___,,\/___. |,-". |. . . ,/.|: |,~" 01:06:38 ... ... ... ",-,,,__/: : : : : : :,/,_~"-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::"-,,____,, : : : : : : : : : "'~,,,/.,,~". ,/: / 01:06:41 ... ... ... /: : : : :"-,,___,,-": : ,"-,-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::'\: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : "-"__,-":,-" 01:06:41 Kickban. Please. 01:06:44 ... ... ... '\,_: : : : : : /-,,___,,"~-----~~~~,~---,,__::::::::::::::::::::::|: : : : : : : : __,,--~"~,,___,,-" 01:06:47 ... ... ... ... ."'~---~"... ... ... ... ... ... ...|---~"::::"'~-::::::::::::::::,/: : : : : : : : : :\"~,, 01:06:49 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|::::::::::::::::::::::::::::,,": : : : : : : : : : : |:::::"-,, 01:06:52 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|:::::::::::::::::::::::,,-": : : : : : : : : : : : :,|:::::::::"-, 01:06:55 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|::::::::::_,,,--~~": : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,/::::::::::::::\, 01:06:58 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|----~~" : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,/::::::::::::::::::\, 01:07:01 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .|: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,-,"::::::::::::::::::::::\ 01:07:04 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : _,,~"SL'\,::::::::::::::::::::::\ 01:07:07 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :,,-"... ... ... .\:::::::::::::::::::::::\ 01:07:10 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... |: : : : : : : : : : : :_,,--~"... ... ... ... ...\:::::::::::::::::::::::\ 01:07:15 >_> 01:09:29 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:09:43 hmm 01:09:47 i can't even tell what it is 01:10:06 a smurf smoking a joint? 01:10:06 http://www.ubersite.com/m/47705 01:10:10 oh, yeah, and kickban 01:11:59 yes .. god forbit i disrupt your indepth conversation with less than a few kilobytes of data 01:12:05 forbid* 01:17:10 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 02:25:36 -!- staplegun has joined. 03:37:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:09:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:23:04 -!- calamari has joined. 05:23:36 hi 05:24:04 たこ。おいしい、ね。 05:24:19 probably old news, but saw this on slashdot: http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solution_news.html 05:25:59 "Alex Smith is an undergraduate studying Electronic and Computer Engineering at the University of Birmingham, UK. He has a background in mathematics and esoteric programming languages." 05:26:22 Oooh. 05:26:27 Anyone we know? 05:26:45 dunno.. didn't find anything on the wiki with his name, but that doesn't mean much 05:30:16 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:30:23 Would the real Alex Smith please stand up? 05:30:58 i need a new computer. 05:31:48 would('ve) be(en) so cool if he were from here 05:33:33 also, i wish i'd joined 15 seconds later 05:33:41 would've made a funny 05:34:08 Heh. 05:34:08 even cooler than these two put together would be if i actually were alex, unfortunately i'm not 05:37:48 gun -> 05:38:00 gun to school -> 05:40:50 bang 06:00:31 sounds stupid 06:09:34 LOL 06:16:03 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:39:54 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:02:54 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:12:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:05:39 -!- staplegun has joined. 11:11:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:16:40 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 11:18:06 siif 11:27:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:29:01 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 12:21:41 -!- zuzu_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:21:44 -!- zuzu has joined. 12:47:19 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:57:57 o 12:57:58 o 14:00:21 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:34:39 -!- INTERCAL has joined. 14:35:00 foreach (user in channel) do print("Hi!"); 14:49:32 This program seems bugged. a = 3 + 5; print(a); 14:53:37 -!- INTERCAL has quit. 15:03:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:42:35 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:47:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:50:12 pikhq: you were right, the person who solved the 2,3 Turing machine problem is on #esoteric 15:50:30 (I'd like to thank whoever it was who put the original prize in the topic and let me know about it in the first place) 15:50:47 ais523: hi 15:50:57 hi, ehird` 15:51:11 * ais523 was logreading and saw people discussing their discovery 15:51:26 wait, was it solved? that wolfram turing machine thing? 15:51:36 * ais523 also realises their gender is now public knowledge, but continues stubbornly using gender-neutral pronouns anyway 15:51:46 ehird': see http://wolframprize.org 15:51:50 the person was in #esoteric??????? 15:51:52 :O 15:52:14 crazy 15:52:16 just crazy 15:52:23 pity I'm in the wrong timezone to have been in either of the conversations about it 15:52:29 I don't know what to say it's amazing 15:52:56 if you want proof, just deduce my email address from my IRC username and the facts given in the article, and I'll send you a reply (which the University servers auto-stamp with my real name) 15:53:36 wait, YOU solved it? 15:54:07 yes 15:54:18 :O 15:54:33 did it involve writing a mapping to brainfuck? ;) 15:55:14 no, cyclic tag systems 15:55:40 * ais523 has a client running in an X terminal window on Windows which tends to hang for no apparent reason every now and then 15:56:12 hehe, perhaps a bit simpler ;) 15:57:20 crazy, though 15:57:23 absolutely crazy 15:57:33 (you're crazy too, btw ;)) 15:58:03 I'm in #esoteric, so that was so obvious you didn't need to point it out 15:58:23 haha 16:00:36 it's a strange feeling, sitting at a computer trying to stop an INTERCAL compiler while you know at any second a journalist might phone and ask questions ranging from informed to inane 16:01:19 so, who's going to write a brainfuck interpreter in it? 16:01:41 it runs at a speed worse than two to the two to the number of steps, so I suspect nobody any time soon 16:01:54 (at least with the initial condition I used) 16:02:03 YEAH WELL THEORETICAL-LAND HATES YOU TOO :< 16:02:53 you'll just have to find a more efficient way to do it. (I suspect there probably is one.) 16:03:23 is there any not-trivial program in cyclic tag systems written? 16:03:30 well, not-trivial = dividing two numbers 16:03:31 haha 16:04:53 ...and it seems that it's lament that I have to thank for unwittingly letting me know about the problem in the first place by putting it in the topic 16:05:11 so i guess he gets half the prize money? ;) hahaha 16:08:35 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:16:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:22:35 ais523: you are all over google 16:23:09 you have to be careful with the search terms; it's easy to phrase it in such a way that you get people with the same name as me who are not me 16:23:18 but there are still quite a lot of results even then 16:23:24 i searched for: wolfram 2 3 16:23:25 :P 16:23:30 s/then/if you exclude false positives/ 16:23:32 tons on tons of results, near-all have your name 16:23:40 ehird`: that's what I would have recommended 16:27:17 based on my own Googling attempts 16:28:10 hahaha 16:28:23 "I just won $25k from Wolfram! Time to see how I'm doing on Google." 16:30:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:33:22 crazy 16:33:23 :) 16:33:57 every time I've looked back at my IRC terminal I see more comments I can't think of a good response to 16:34:17 running a terminal emulator emulator 16:34:31 ais523: the trials in the life of a computer scientist 16:34:36 how do you cope? ;) 16:34:38 running in a terminal emulator written in curses 16:34:46 bsmntbom1dood: what 16:35:01 damn straight bitch 16:35:34 bsmntbom1dood: my current working version of the C-INTERCAL compiler contains a compiler for a language designed specifically for writing INTERCAL optimizer idioms 16:35:52 the compiler is written in yacc, which means in this case yacc is a compiler compiler compiler 16:36:08 ais523: i hope you tell this to the journalists, they need to know what an exciting life you have 16:36:46 surprisingly most of them weren't very interested 16:36:56 amazing! :o 16:36:59 tell them how sexy i am instead 16:37:06 but there are a few esolang references dropped into some of the articles if you look closely enough 16:38:18 Wolfram's related blog entry, for instance 16:45:39 "Hey guys good news! I found a polynomial-time algorithm running on this 2,3 Turing machine for an NP-complete problem!" -- person I know 16:46:09 (It's probably funnier first time due to the fact it's on a rather idle post tagged on after "Edit: ") 16:47:10 I'd be quite impressed if someone came across an NP-complete problem that could manage that 16:47:28 ;) 16:49:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:50:45 hah: 16:50:50 "Only God and Chuck Norris can solve the halting problem. 16:50:50 Edit: Also Rudy Giuliani. It turns out that for any input, the answer is 9/11. :/" 16:52:06 the neat thing about the Turing machine in question is unlike with most languages, a program that lasts an infinite amount of time has to be infinitely long 16:52:25 wait... doesn't that make it NOT universal? 16:52:32 it would be nice if there was a proof which filled space with a simple repeating pattern rather than the complicated nested pattern I used 16:52:33 don't you have to be able to do finite infinite loops? 16:53:01 the point is that the initial condition is always derived from a finite original program using a non-Turing-complete-in-itself process 16:54:20 if you think about it, all Turing machine initial conditions are infinitely long because the tape itself is infinitely long and you have to specify every element on it 16:56:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 16:56:33 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:02:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:28:53 that's not true 17:29:14 setting up the initial conditions themselves can be represented as a program 17:29:19 and the program will be finite 17:29:39 he's gone now 17:29:42 the only infinite thing is that the tape starts off as infinite zeros 17:30:00 but hey, you directly caused him to find out about it and then win it 17:30:01 pretty cool 17:36:12 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:46:08 -!- Nucleo has joined. 17:52:37 oh, just read the log 17:52:40 this is so cool! 17:52:45 #esoteric kicks ass 17:52:48 haha, i haven't read it yet 17:52:51 but it is cool 17:53:04 i mean your conversation with ais523 17:53:37 if you want your hard esoteric problem solved - show it to #esoteric people! 17:53:44 haha 17:53:44 :) 17:53:45 sweet :) 17:53:57 LMAO, from earlier today: Oooh. Anyone we know? 17:54:14 of course, #esoteric avoided all publicity 17:54:27 maybe we should ask ais523 to mention it somewhere :) 17:54:36 would('ve) be(en) so cool if he were from here 17:55:00 lament: imagine how bad reddit was -- and they're more intelligent than most people, on average -- and multiply it times a few million 17:55:04 lament: do you still want to do that? 17:55:18 ehird`: yes 17:55:22 it's not few million 17:55:28 it's not _that_ important a result 17:55:34 it's probably just the people who read wolfram's blog 17:55:42 he's had newspaper articles, iirc 17:55:43 which are hopefully much smarter than redditers 17:55:47 (not published yet ofc) 17:55:59 newspaper articles aren't gonna mention an irc channel, because they don't know what that is 17:56:08 :p 17:56:16 maybe we could post to lambda the ultimate if he's fine with that 17:56:21 it's really funny, this line: 17:56:24 pikhq: you were right, the person who solved the 2,3 Turing machine problem is on #esoteric 17:56:31 i didn't catch on that he meant him until a bit later 17:56:33 ;;;;;;:;;;:;;;;;: 17:57:21 also the redditers thing wasn't that bad in the long run 17:57:32 the idiots left within a day 17:57:34 it's redditors, just fyi 17:57:45 wait what? 17:57:50 the 2,3 guy is here? 17:57:54 bsmntbom1dood: ais523 solved it 17:58:09 ??? 17:58:18 bsmntbom1dood: !!! 17:58:23 impossible 17:58:28 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!. 17:58:33 no, it's evidently possible 17:58:36 ;) 17:58:52 anyway: if you want proof, just deduce my email address from my IRC username and the facts given in the article, and I'll send you a reply (which the University servers auto-stamp with my real name) 18:00:15 it's impossible because I'M the one who solved it 18:00:29 heh 18:00:39 we all know you are ais523 ;) 18:03:10 -!- jix has joined. 18:06:14 someone should post something about #esoteric and the prize 18:11:59 That's pretty spiffy. 18:25:54 * bsmntbom1dood happens to be sitting in a leather armchair 18:39:38 * oklopol too 18:45:37 i'm sitting on a piano bench! 18:47:10 do you play? 18:47:39 not at the moment 18:47:54 how many pianists do we have here? 18:48:00 this is a POLL! 18:48:05 * oklopol is one 18:48:05 69105 18:48:14 i'm not a pianist, i'm a musician. 18:48:26 well yeah, i'm more of a general musician myself 18:49:33 Well, there's Gregor. . . 18:50:43 that would be a small percentage 18:53:37 musician 18:56:02 musician 18:56:29 musician 18:59:25 Singer. 18:59:41 POOPERIZERMATOR 18:59:45 er, yes. 19:00:07 ... Is everyone in here a musician? XD 19:00:39 i'm not 19:00:40 :P 19:00:43 banned 19:00:49 :( 19:01:04 you have a 3-day grace period to learn to play some instrument 19:01:16 I can play the kazoo... 19:01:17 kind of... 19:04:13 It doesn't even have to be a complex instrument. . . 19:04:27 i can make random whines on the theremin? 19:04:29 :P 19:04:34 Stallman, for example, sings (nasally) and plays the recorder (can't comment on quality) 19:04:48 stallman is a crazy hobo though. 19:04:50 Learn the theremin. . . We could use a theremin for the Esoteric Ensemble. :p 19:04:53 I'm not. I don't think. 19:05:04 i actually have a theremin 19:05:12 i thought it would be awesome until i realised i suck at anything musical 19:05:12 :( 19:05:32 i think theremins kinda suck, but that's really cool if you actually have one 19:07:19 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mW0B1sipLBI the formal proof that theremins are awesome 19:08:39 * SimonRC just thought of a great math trick 19:08:58 I just realised how to measure the area of an arbitrary polygon 19:09:03 orly 19:09:13 you pick some point way outside the polygon 19:09:33 then, procede round the polygon's edges 19:09:34 define way 19:09:50 outside the convex hull, or whatever it's called 19:10:45 consider the area defined by your point and each edge, which is a triangle... 19:11:32 if you calculate the ares of all the triangles, then add all the ones from edges that went "left" and subtract all the ones from edges that went "right", you have the area of the polygon! 19:12:16 the point you are measuring from can be a corner of the bounding box, for example 19:12:36 and the are of the triangles is given by the cosine rule, I think 19:12:55 in fact, you may be able to use any point outside the polygon, but I can't be sure 19:14:05 hmm 19:14:13 maybe even points inside the polygon work... 19:14:25 yeah, I think they do! 19:16:12 oh, wait, the area of the triangles can be found without the cosine rule 19:16:31 i wanna theremin :O 19:18:52 who wants a random .signature-C challenge? 19:19:27 is the prize a theremin? 19:19:34 haha 19:19:41 probably not, i like my theremin :P 19:20:43 but the challenge is: generate the sierpinski triangle (in 4 lines or less of C, no standard compliance required - gcc hacks allowed), and print it out in ascii (any size, really... the bigger the better, because you can get more detail. I'd say something like ~200x200) 19:20:43 BUT 19:20:45 there's a catch 19:20:49 you must do it with this method: 19:21:01 1. Take 3 points in a plane, and form a triangle 2. Randomly select any point inside the triangle and move half the distance from that point to any of the 3 vertex points. 3. Plot the current position. Repeat from step 2. 19:21:04 AKA - the chaos game 19:21:12 you'll need a lot of iterations of course 19:23:16 waitamo... 19:23:22 I am getting a funny result here... 19:23:28 what? 19:23:36 * SimonRC types... 19:23:50 If you ahve a triangle inside a bouunding rectangle... 19:24:05 suppose that it has one corner at 0,0 19:24:38 the other corners are at (w,x) and (h,y), so the bounding box has size w wide by h high... 19:24:58 the are of the triangle seems to be (wh-xy)/2 19:25:05 which sounds too simple 19:26:24 (I got this by assuming that w=h=1 initially, then rescaling 19:26:26 ) 19:27:06 calling a y-coordinate "x" is possibly the most confusing thing ever. 19:27:14 umm 19:27:25 i suppose you actually mean the coordinates are (w,y) and (x,h)? 19:27:51 yeah, I meant the corners are (w, y) and (x, h), I think.... 19:28:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:36:28 oops, I now realise that there are some triangles that won't work for 19:36:49 anyone knows alex smith? 19:37:03 who? 19:37:08 alex smith 19:37:15 http://blog.wolfram.com/2007/10/the_prize_is_won_the_simplest.html 19:37:34 But at 20:53:59 GMT on Saturday, June 30--just 47 days after we announced the prize--we received a submission, with the description of the submitter given as "Alex Smith is an undergraduate studying Electronic and Computer Engineering at the University of Birmingham, UK. He has a background in mathematics and esoteric programming languages." 19:39:16 jix: read the logs for today :D 19:39:24 jix: ais523 19:39:25 :) 19:39:44 ah cool :) 19:44:49 -!- Arrogant has joined. 19:45:07 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:46:27 hi * 2 19:46:35 :p 19:48:00 today is a great day :) 19:48:08 why? 19:48:19 * GregorR stabs jix and steals his happy. 19:49:12 my doom cart arrived in UK (and is on the way to me), we got 1000eur for our robot team, and i think it's really cool that someone from here solved that problem 19:50:03 I wish I had a robot that could play Doom 19:50:27 nah the doom cart and the robot stuff is completely unrelated 19:51:04 * SimonRC feels dumb... 19:51:31 Doesn't change my dreams 19:51:36 duh, I could just applythe method I just rediscovered in the difficult case 19:58:52 * oklopol always feels dumb 19:58:54 ...here 19:59:05 * pikhq always feels smart here 19:59:09 well, anywhere else too, except for programming.. 20:01:35 this is extremely annoying. now i'll have to solve the P vs. NP problem just to stay in the pecking order here... 20:02:09 ^^ 20:02:14 what if i do that tonight just to annoy ya? 20:02:16 is there a prize for the collatz problem? 20:04:22 hm, nothing listed on the wikipedia page 20:04:27 1000 20:04:31 pounds 20:04:38 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CollatzProblem.html 20:04:57 oh that one 20:06:59 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:07:09 -!- jix has joined. 20:08:34 * oerjan wonders if David Morgan-Mar has ever been on the channel. But i guess his esoteric language days were in the past. 20:09:02 who? 20:09:04 * ehird` is lame 20:09:24 I know Edwin Brady, and he has been here. 20:09:28 the author of Irregular Webcomic, and also Chef 20:09:47 or should that be: Edwin " \t\n" Brady 20:09:54 :-) 20:12:20 phew the lag is over 20:12:33 * ehird` is parsing the whole of the brown corpus into his markov chain 20:12:33 damnit 20:12:34 thje lag is back 20:12:37 and now it's gone again 20:13:15 1.176 seconds 20:13:20 something must be awfully odd at 20:13:49 lines 32000 to lines 33000 20:13:53 because it is lagging on them 20:14:07 gottit! 20:14:16 SimonRC: ? 20:14:32 ehird`: did my ping automatically move you into a message window? o_O 20:14:37 yes 20:14:39 pidgin sucks 20:14:49 (i would not use it if i was not on windows beyond my control right now) 20:14:56 if the point on the triangle are (0,0), (x1,y2), and (x2, y2), the area is (x1*y2 - x2*y1)/2 20:15:05 for any arrangement of points 20:16:08 right, cross product 20:16:17 oh yes, so it is 20:16:33 i know someone who knows someone who knows mandelbrot 20:17:22 jix: how about Gődel? 20:17:32 but is that knowledge self-similar? 20:17:33 um, excuse by charsety 20:17:36 no 20:17:37 *charset 20:17:41 SimonRC: not '', but .. 20:17:45 (windows retarded keymap, sorry) 20:17:57 U+0151 20:18:16 "LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DOUBLE ACCUTE" 20:18:21 accute != dot 20:18:23 um, "ACUTE" 20:18:26 yup 20:18:28 it's Godel with an umlaut 20:18:37 and by the first know i'm talking about my previous math teacher and a good friend of mine 20:18:39 * ehird` is watching his markov chain-erator go 20:18:45 no, it's a double-acute, not a double-dot 20:18:55 SimonRC: that is not how godel is spelled 20:18:59 not double acute, that would be Erdos 20:19:04 oerjan: yep 20:19:59 godel-numbers are something _quite_ different from erdos-numbers 20:20:09 haha 20:20:19 my godel-number is somewhere in the reigon of 34872398723423! 20:20:24 so is my erdos-number, incidentally! 20:20:45 *cough* 20:20:48 ehird`: you've never written a collaboratory paper? 20:20:54 I was thinknig on Erdo''s 20:21:01 the 2nd person in that row is heinz-otto peitgen ... the doktorvater(??) of my previous math teacher 20:21:02 *thinking of 20:21:19 i don't quite recall my erdos-number but i think it was around 5-6 20:21:31 yow, i have something close to exponential time increase per line 20:21:33 wait, no 20:21:35 linear increase 20:21:37 but still pretty bad 20:21:43 because the table gets bigger every time 20:21:44 thus next line 20:21:48 there's a bigger table to check in 20:21:49 and so forth 20:22:03 and he runs the company my previous math teacher works at now 20:22:34 10000/51764... 20:22:36 ooh: http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.98/tyler1.html 20:22:40 why is the brown corpus so damn big? ;) 20:23:30 11000/51764 20:25:13 ehird`: what is this thing? 20:25:25 SimonRC: what thing? 20:25:37 i'm feeding the brown corpus into my markov chain generator 20:25:43 ah 20:25:47 the brown corpus is, basically, a shitload of american english text 20:25:55 hence the name? 20:26:01 hence the name. 20:26:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Corpus 20:26:35 i just found a plaintext version 20:26:38 and am feeding it through 20:26:45 it's around 5mb 20:27:41 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:28:53 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:29:57 16000/51764... 20:30:02 sloh-oh-oww 20:34:08 * ehird` just does the first 5000 for now :P 20:37:41 damn, my program is slow 20:41:47 holy... 20:41:50 it's still going 20:52:39 ok 20:52:46 i'll just try 500 lines 20:52:48 there 20:52:49 this seems to work 20:55:32 wow 20:55:35 that is very lucid 20:55:38 "I'm willing to stake my political career goes back to his election to city council in 1923." 20:55:42 the first thing it produced 21:03:45 hey 21:03:50 my markov chain produces intelligable stuff! 21:04:46 now feed it atlas shrugged 21:05:08 haha 21:06:08 some text it's produced (i think the brown corpus starts with political stuff, so that'd explain these): 21:06:08 "Sam Caldwell, State Highway Department public relations director, resigned Tuesday to work for Lt. Gov. Garland Byrd's campaign." 21:06:19 "I didn't smell a drop of liquor, and we didn't have a son, William Berry Jr., and a doctor, medical intern or extern be employed at the State Welfare Department's handling of federal funds granted for child welfare services in foster homes." 21:06:19 it'll probably spit out a 3-page-long improvised speech given at a party with no provocation 21:06:34 i love the second one 21:06:51 Okay that last one doesn't quite work 21:07:12 neither means anything, really 21:07:16 but i've heard worse :P 21:07:39 unless you can "stake" an even 21:07:42 *event 21:07:49 uhh 21:07:50 no 21:07:54 "I'm willing to stake my political career goes back to his election to city council in 1923." makes perfect sense 21:08:12 it effectively means "I'm willing to bet that my political career goes back to his election to city council in 1923." 21:08:13 what's stake mean there? 21:08:19 anyway, oklopol, your bot was worse 21:08:19 :P 21:08:21 so you can "stake" an event 21:08:30 ehird`: nah 21:08:35 heck yes 21:08:39 same thing, really. 21:08:41 it produced rubbish 21:08:43 mine doesn't 21:08:47 also, mine is a second-order markov chain 21:08:49 it's different. 21:08:52 how? 21:09:04 what's the difference? 21:09:07 yours maps word=>(next,next...), correct? 21:09:11 yeah 21:09:14 well 21:09:25 second order chains map (word1,word2)=>(next,next...) 21:09:25 so 21:09:29 "hello world abc" would be 21:09:33 (hello,world)=>(abc) 21:09:35 instead of: 21:09:40 (hello)=>(world) 21:09:41 and (world)=>(abc) 21:09:55 it makes it a lot more intelligable, and doesn't increase the parroting much 21:10:04 yeah, plagiarizing a bit more will produce a bit better text, but that's no real enhancement 21:10:13 it is, actually 21:10:15 there's nothing fundamentally better there 21:10:17 it is a dramatic improvement 21:10:20 sure 21:10:22 everything >2 parrots far too much 21:10:22 :) 21:10:28 everything <2 (well, 1) produces garbage 21:10:31 but 2 produces semi-coherent text 21:11:29 what's the use of making these chains, anyway? 21:11:39 doubt a "first-order" chain would produce any less coherent stuff given that input. 21:11:43 what's the use of using esoteric languages, Arrogant? :) 21:11:49 Arrogant: there's no use, ever 21:11:55 was just wondering 21:11:56 oklopol: prove me wrong 21:12:22 feed the first 499 (NOTE: not all of it) of http://dingo.sbs.arizona.edu/~hammond/ling696f-sp03/browncorpus.txt to your markov chain generator 21:12:28 make sure to do it line-by-line not all at once 21:12:33 err, first 499 lines 21:12:35 then produce some text 21:12:37 show me it 21:12:46 nah 21:12:59 you didn't time your program yesterday, so i'm not gonnado this ;) 21:13:03 *gonna do 21:13:06 i did time it ffs 21:13:30 but fine, you're wrong anyway (sheesh, what a childish reason to stop the proving that markov order-2 chains are better) 21:13:34 sure 21:14:01 the real reason is i don't care 21:14:17 markov chains are too trivial to be interesting 21:14:23 * ehird` rolls eyes 21:14:26 so what do you suggest instead? 21:14:43 i suggest we drop the subject :D 21:15:01 no, really, what do you suggest instead of markov chains? 21:15:04 i'm interested 21:16:08 waiting for someone to invent something that works? 21:16:15 hahaha 21:16:23 :| 21:16:25 you're weird 21:16:32 wehird 21:16:41 "markov chains are too trivial! i won't use them. 21:16:41 i'm just waiting for someone to invent something TOTALLY AWESOME" 21:17:04 err... what's funny about not thinking markov chains are interesting? 21:17:25 because you call them "trivial" yet state you are waiting for someone to invent something less trivial 21:17:33 if they're the least-trivial thing out there, then they're hardly trivial 21:17:55 i'm saying if you insist on getting something better, just wait; i've never claimed to be at all interested in making good parrots 21:18:40 and why the fuck would i need to think markov chains are interesting just because they're the best we've got? 21:19:02 if they're trivial, they're not interesting 21:19:18 since there's nothing interesting you can do with them 21:20:11 i was talking in the context of making parrots 21:20:20 i didn't say anything about you in particular being interested in them 21:21:02 i just said i don't wanna do the test, because i didn't see a reason to do that 21:21:16 meh, whatever, i'm going to ask in #lojban 21:21:25 about my generate-and-filter idea 21:31:19 what's so special about markov chains? 21:31:48 they#re fun 21:32:08 they're neither the most trivial predictive model, nor the most interesting one 21:32:19 what's the most trivial then? 21:32:24 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:32:49 bag of words model is simpler 21:32:51 you can't think of anything simpler than a markov chain? :P 21:33:05 well, pick random word, repeat 21:33:09 but apart from that? no 21:33:10 random line noise is simpler 21:33:42 that's not a predictive model, though 21:33:44 lament: what's that? 21:33:48 42 42 42 42 42 21:33:52 ehird`: i actually study this at university at the moment 21:34:15 ehird`: the simplest model, given some data, would be to pick the most common word in the data and always produce that 21:34:21 42 42 42 42 42 21:34:44 lament: so... 21:34:47 i think it would be even simpler to pick the first word 21:34:50 "hello world hello" 21:34:51 would produce 21:34:54 "hello hello hello"? 21:34:57 right 21:35:02 if so, that's... trivial, but uh how shall i put this 21:35:03 ;) 21:35:11 what's something trivial that doesn't involve repeating yourself over and over? 21:35:36 pick a random word, preferrably with a probability distribution influenced by what you see in the data. 21:36:07 ] 21:36:09 heh 21:36:22 so, "hello world hello" -> "hello hello world world hello hello hello hello world hello world world"? 21:36:23 ;) 21:36:31 ok, the next step up in triviality from that 21:37:13 well, this is as far as you can get with words being considered independent 21:37:30 so the next step would be to consider them in relationship to one another 21:37:37 which brings you to markov chains? 21:37:38 so.. markov chains 21:37:54 what about one step up in triviality from markov chains (of all orders) 21:38:53 i don't know, is there anything more complex than a markov chain of infinite order? 21:39:09 haha 21:39:10 i would think not, you'd just never get enough data to train it 21:39:16 joking aside, i mean 21:39:17 ;) 21:39:36 that's not joking, you can't just combine markov chains of different orders like that :) 21:39:51 ok ok ok 21:39:56 lament: you can make it better by also introducing the concept of "topics" 21:39:56 if you pretend markov chains don't exist 21:40:02 but i think the next step is just optimizations 21:40:09 like topics, teaching it the english grammar, etc 21:40:37 (if you know it's english and there're topics, which doesn't have to be the case) 21:41:05 ehird`: a markov chain is just a particular kind of a dependence graph 21:41:20 hmm... wonder if it could ever find any meaning for anything given just the irc interface 21:41:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_network 21:41:34 i mean, in theory, given a perfect ai 21:41:49 we already know that's possible with full world interaction 21:41:58 but irc just has ops, kicks and privmsg's 21:41:59 ehird`: read that article and consider how markov chains tie in :) 21:42:05 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:42:16 "nah, i don't feel like it" 21:42:34 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:42:39 er 21:42:41 i missed the last few messages 21:42:45 ehird`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_network 21:43:03 that article is way too technical and messy and doesn't have enough pictures 21:43:20 i agree! 21:43:31 anything else? maybe something that doesn't make my head hurt? :-) 21:43:46 (Maybe even something I could have a go at implementing, heh.) 21:44:06 im not sure 21:44:25 certainly, something that doesn't say "im" ;) 21:45:45 well let's put it this way 21:45:52 i highly doubt i could implement a bayesian network 21:45:53 :-) 21:46:15 a markov chain is a bayesian network that looks like this 21:46:24 [w1]->[w2]->[w3]->... 21:46:33 i use a 2nd-order markov chain 21:46:36 what does it look like then? 21:46:47 (more importantly what's another example of a bayesian network) 21:47:00 harder to draw, w1 now has an arrow to w3, etc 21:47:39 a->b just means "b depends on a" 21:47:41 ok so i'm not exactly sure of the implications 21:47:42 :) 21:49:05 your knowledge of w2 is influenced by the knowledge of w1 21:49:20 and, since there're no more arrows in the 1st order graph, nothing else 21:49:36 lament: isn't that just what a 2nd order markov chain is? 21:49:39 so it's some kind of a probability distribution with one parameter 21:49:49 and for a 2nd order chain, two parameters 21:51:22 and for an infinite order chain, infinitely many parameters, so you can't really get any more complex 21:51:40 so bayesian network is basically a markov chain 21:51:45 is there anything really seperate? 21:51:58 wow, i really suck at explaining this. 21:52:07 i'll stop. 21:52:16 haha 21:52:17 :( 21:52:36 i suck at sucking 21:52:48 well, blowjob is a blowjob 21:53:30 * bsmntbom1dood has never given a blowjob 21:53:34 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 21:53:47 python has really killed my brain 21:54:12 use scheme instead 21:54:34 bsmntbombdood: there's always the first tiem 21:54:40 doing C is hard when everything that requires manual memory allocation seems too complicated to be a good solution... 21:54:57 lament: unless there is no first time 21:55:01 for simple programs you don't need malloc, oklopol 21:55:07 just choose some fixed size and make an array of it 21:55:07 ;) 21:55:47 this isn't simple 21:55:56 but yeah, that's what i'm doing for the first version 21:56:07 and 21:56:14 nobody. has. done. my. sierpinski challenge 21:56:14 :( 21:56:30 also, all the time i'm trying to use C++ stuff :P 21:56:35 then i realize i decided not to 21:58:57 ooooooorgy 21:59:06 oklopol: we need to get this thing going 21:59:12 lament is coming right? 21:59:16 ho-kay... 22:00:13 bsmntbombdood: yeah, we need to do something about your bad sucking capabilities, lament's experience will be most helpful 22:00:36 sucking at sucking was merely a guess 22:00:45 i could have natural skill, you never know... 22:01:05 i do watch a lot of, ahem, instructional videos 22:02:07 i'm coming? 22:02:14 well yeah, but it's actually quite hard getting the ...whatsit open 22:02:24 you might puke without training 22:02:29 if you try too deep 22:02:31 lament: are you? 22:02:38 not at the moment 22:02:41 heh 22:02:43 awww 22:03:27 i already have a small orgy planned for the weekend, actually 22:03:32 very small, though 22:03:53 that's disgusting, young man 22:04:22 not that small! 22:04:39 the least disgusting number of people 22:04:55 huh? 22:05:15 five? 22:05:27 yeah, five 22:06:12 well, there's wankfest, sex, threeway, fourway... orgy 22:06:25 you might say there's a least weird one there 22:06:48 hehe, -fest always makes me laugh 22:06:51 you skipped "sanity", right after "fourway" 22:07:27 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:07:29 whooops, sorry 22:07:40 anyone have an acm web account? 22:07:42 wankfest, sex, threeway, fourway, sanity... orgy 22:10:37 that should be the motto of our orgy 22:12:29 (or not) 22:12:42 what... 0:12 22:12:46 i hate time 22:12:53 15:12 22:12:57 !! 22:13:02 ARE YOU STEALING MY TIMES? 22:13:39 hmm, perhaps i should eat a pizza -> 22:13:51 mm pizza 22:13:57 my armpits smell good 22:15:12 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:16:08 what language is tex in? 22:17:08 c 22:17:19 with knuth's literate programming system iirc 22:26:22 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:26:27 -!- SimonRC has joined. 22:31:44 i think the root of things like text generation 22:32:04 is a function Sim(S) 22:32:17 "produce something that looks like it could be in set S" 22:32:41 Maybe Sim(S,C) where C(a,b) is a function for ranking (from 0 to 1, say) how similar a and b are 22:32:56 of course it'll be very hard to figure out an algorithm for Sim that works pretty well, even more so for C 22:34:52 Unless, of course, there's some new development i'm unaware of? 22:41:07 Sim can brute force 22:41:31 C can use levenshtein distance or something 22:41:56 Sim brute forcing isn't very nice, though 22:42:05 Especially if you're generating nonsense text or the like 22:42:36 (levenshtein distance wouldn't work very well, because it's the more "mechanical" kind of "simularity" - you wouldn't get "new" text like e.g. markov chains) 22:43:07 i want to know how google's translate agorithm works 22:43:13 i've heard it's automatically trained 22:43:24 you can also suggest a translation 22:43:37 (which is why a while back "sarkozy sarkozy sarkozy" translated to "Cheney defends Bush") 22:43:43 (or similar) 22:44:11 and contextual, yes 22:44:28 google translate? 22:45:00 if anyone produces an algorithm (without hand-waving) for Sim and C, i would be mightily impressed (that is if it actually worked ;)) 22:45:02 oklopol: what 22:45:12 ehird`: that's ai 22:45:24 ehird`: exactly 22:45:42 oklopol: google.com/translate_t it's the best machine translation out there basically [it still sucks] 22:45:48 bsmntbombdood: of course a perfect Sim and C would be AI 22:46:26 i kill cows -> Ich tten Khe 22:46:33 i need no further testing... 22:46:37 i told you it sucks 22:46:40 but it is useful 22:46:45 perhaps 22:46:53 try translating a foreign language article to english, you can make out what they're saying most of the time 22:46:56 what does that say? 22:47:11 i kills cows... 22:47:20 it's just wrong... form of the verb 22:47:35 should be tte 22:47:41 yeah 22:47:57 also, oerjan, don't know everything! 22:48:03 understandable 22:48:33 yeah, but that such a simple thing... it's always ich + {verb}e 22:48:38 *that's 22:48:48 it's neural-net or similar-based, though 22:48:48 it's statistical, not rule based 22:48:52 it's not "simple" 22:48:56 you don't just tell it something mechanical 22:49:04 you teach it over time, like neural nets 22:49:11 i do know that. 22:49:33 blame the whole world, for misteaching it 22:49:41 i shall 22:49:44 FUCK YOU WORLD 22:49:51 /AMSG FUCK YOU ALL 22:49:53 ... 22:50:06 ... 22:50:08 um 22:50:09 what 22:50:18 err blaming the world 22:50:55 i apologize to anyone not a part of this world! 22:51:02 hmm, i'd better do some sleeping - 22:51:05 -> 22:51:35 oklopol: wimp 22:51:39 :> 22:51:41 it's only 00:51 22:51:41 *:< 22:51:51 but... i like dreams 22:51:59 i've actually been having them again 22:52:08 like last night, i dremt i was in my friends room 22:52:10 trapped 22:52:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:52:24 and i knew i only hard 50 seconds before it would burst into flames and i'd die 22:52:41 so i thought "i'll pee on the floor" 22:52:44 and so i did. 22:52:49 (no, didn't wet my bed ;)) 22:53:02 that was so absurd, i lolled my ass off when i woke up 22:53:34 think, you're about to die, and the first thing that pops to mind is "i'll ruin my friends carpet, mwahaha" 22:53:46 *friend's 22:53:53 okay, that may not have been a good example 22:53:55 i thought you were peeing to stop the burning... 22:53:59 but quality dreams anyway 22:54:00 oh no 22:54:12 it was gonna be like 5000 degrees 22:54:17 instant kill, and i knew that 22:54:33 lol 22:54:42 i just wanted to pee on the floor, because no one could blame me for anything 22:55:07 was also interesting when i actually died, but that's hard to explain really 22:55:45 don't want to die with a full bladder 22:55:45 hmm, no i feel bad for wanting to sleep 22:55:50 *now 22:56:01 my dreams are so naive 22:56:04 i was thinking you could hide flammable liquids in your bladder 22:56:05 dying just makes them go black 22:56:11 and then piss and start a fire 22:56:25 well, most people wake up when they die 22:56:35 i did too, but i woke up in another dream 22:56:45 i wake up but only after a second or so of black 22:56:50 the half-dreams where you fall and then when you hit the ground and jerk irl are cool 22:57:39 when you're half asleep, just before really falling asleep 22:57:43 yeah, but i've had dreams where i fall from a mountain top, and through concrete, and i can't breath 22:57:50 awesome 22:58:02 i hardly ever remember my dreams :( 22:58:08 one of my fears is finding myself inside a solid object 22:58:09 except 22:58:10 actually inside 22:58:13 not a me-sized hole 22:58:19 but actually completely immersed in a solid object 22:58:25 like, say, an FPS with noclip on 22:58:33 one time i had a dream my hand was carved empty, and when i woke up, for a moment i actually hallucinated it really was 22:59:04 almost all these great dreams occurred about 2 years ago when i didn't sleep nearly at all 22:59:15 guess i should start sleeping less again 22:59:15 also, another of my fears is reality's texture mapping fucking up and me suddenly finding myself pasted onto the floor 22:59:17 that would feel weird 22:59:50 hmm, like 2d? 22:59:57 yeah 23:00:02 would be so cool 23:00:04 like, the texture of my body, would be mapped onto the floor instead 23:00:06 eww no 23:00:09 you'd like, feel the floor 23:00:14 because you'd be the floor 23:00:17 so 23:00:20 cool 23:00:22 and all objects would morph in size and have textures mapped on 23:00:24 and see up all the girls skirts! 23:00:24 aaargh 23:00:26 i'd be terrified 23:00:29 yeah! 23:01:09 hmm, i'll really go now, i already slept through one school day this week 23:01:10 -> 23:21:05 -!- staplegun has joined. 23:22:16 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:22:37 anyone want to write that sierpinski program challenge? 23:22:38 :) 23:28:02 who speaks norweigian? 23:28:08 i don't! 23:28:50 Oerjan. 23:29:21 neither does google translate 23:29:38 Wait for Oerjan to return. . . 23:29:48 And then our Norwegian friend can help you. ;) 23:29:56 yes 23:30:06 http://www.itavisen.no/sak/493810/-___Norge_f%E5r_OiNK-__sak/ 23:30:08 ^^ 23:30:32 try fabelbish? 23:34:28 howzit 2007-10-26: 00:08:29 -!- staplegun has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 00:34:23 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:26:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:43:37 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 02:29:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:32:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:51:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:52:25 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 03:52:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:53:18 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 03:55:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:55:41 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 03:56:37 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:57:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:01:45 I've had some really odd dreams 04:02:07 Has anyone had one where you take yourself apart? 04:02:11 I've had a Volkswagen Bug try to eat my in one of my dreams. 04:02:12 O.o 04:02:38 I had a really creepy one where I was basically pulling the muscles and tendons out of my hand, and another one involving teeth 04:03:37 in retrospect, dreams are rarely if ever anatomically correct, but it doesn't make it any less creepy 04:04:24 Yeah. . . 04:04:33 Why the hell would a VW Bug have teeth? 04:05:51 something about staring at your crumpled up hand and just knowing it's nothing but skin over bone, seeping blood out of the cuticles... and then you wake up. 04:06:14 hawt 04:11:06 yup 04:15:13 i wish i remembered my dreams 04:31:40 I'd say I recall dreams about 30% of the time 04:32:47 For me, it's more like 0.0001% of the time. 04:33:05 That dream was from when I was about 5. . . And it's the last dream I remember, I think. 04:34:16 i used to have recurring dreams when i was little 04:34:31 the other day i had a dream in one of the old recurring settigns! 04:34:52 interesting 04:35:12 most of the recurers were nightmares 04:35:57 I've thought about dream interpretation from time to time, but I've found I can generally explain my dreams when taking into account the events of the past few days and what was on my mind when I went to sleep 04:36:29 it's like a jumbled-up version of your recent memories, stitched into something that appears coherent at the surface level 04:36:41 it's easy to find a meaning when there is none 04:37:14 oh damn this song is good 04:37:33 Another thought has occurred to me- are dreams just an artifact of our brain's natural garbage-collection and memory storage processes, or do dreams themselves have an evolutionary benefit? 04:37:34 Airheadz - Stanley (Here I Am) 04:38:56 Perhaps their ability to provide insight into new approaches to problems by separating ideas from context is a reason for their existence? 04:38:56 i don't think dreams would be an artifact of garbage collection 04:39:00 RodgerTheGreat: I'd say that the evolutionary benefit *is* the garbage-collection. 04:39:32 so many people don't remember their dreams i would say they have no purpose 04:39:38 hm 04:39:56 and no evolutionary disadvantages, so no reason to not have them 04:42:34 but that is rather unsatisfying 04:42:58 true 04:45:34 Maybe it's more difficult to defrag recent memories *without* causing dreams as a side-effect, so the mechanisms that usually cause people to forget dreams act as some kind of patch to that behavior? 04:46:11 kind of an ugly hack 04:46:29 wouldn't it be better just to turn off the visual part of your brain? 04:46:44 nature is best at making ugly hacks first, and then slowly smoothing out the rough edges 04:46:45 sensoral rather 04:48:04 current knowledge of the brain suggests that there isn't a really convenient way to shut off all sensory input (which would really involve shutting down *consciousness*) without some tricky biochemical footwork 04:51:58 consciousness is a sensory input? 04:52:56 RodgerTheGreat: Technically, *sleep* is a loss of consciousness. 04:53:12 pikhq: it might be 04:53:30 memory and consciousness are intertwined in very interesting ways 04:54:12 meh 04:54:45 it's hard to argue about the physical aspects of the brain without large research 04:56:11 It's hard to argue about the physical aspects of the brain with large research. 04:56:36 it's hard to argue about the physical aspects of the brain 04:57:40 it's hard to research the brain when we can only make coarse and minimally invasive observations. It'd be like trying to understand how a computer works by dissecting casio watches and looking over someone's shoulders as they typed letters in a word processor. 04:58:15 nice analogy 04:58:28 I think it works well on several levels 05:35:56 actually i think it would be exactly like understanding how a modern CPU works, with any tools available. 05:36:08 (given that you don't have any knowledge of CPU design) 05:36:39 it's hard to reverse-engineer something so complex. 06:23:48 o 06:28:32 i've heard the human brain is more complex than a computer 06:29:20 to be honest, i don't really believe that 06:29:38 i gotta leave, just 1 hour late! -> 06:31:30 ... 06:31:34 i fail at this. 06:31:40 missed the bus. 06:37:41 Bravo. 06:38:36 omg 06:38:42 1 minutes till next one :O 06:38:45 fuck! -> 06:42:25 good and bad news: 1. i *would've* been on time for the bus 2. i realized i owe a teacher 25 euros and had to come back 06:44:26 if i miss the next one, this is code day. 06:44:34 getting a bit ridiculous 06:47:37 ->>>>>>>>>>< 06:47:39 -> 06:52:34 * pikhq shall now sleep 06:52:36 -!- bartw has quit. 07:47:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:48:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:48:38 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 11:38:59 when drawing a wire that snaps into a grid, and only straight lines between adjacent points are possible (just directions NWSE), if the mouse moves say 5 points x-wise (say east), and 2 y-wise (say north), what should the resulting line be like? i first had EEEEENN, now i have EEENENE; or would it perhaps be better if it was as straight as possible? 11:39:13 this of course is a marginal case, since usually you wanna draw the wires sowlky. 11:39:15 *slowly 11:39:20 a bit of a typo there... 11:40:00 (EEENENE is the easiest to make ;)) 11:42:47 hmm... most of you may be sleeping. 11:59:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:52:16 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:26:23 -!- Fa1r has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:27:10 -!- Fa1r has joined. 13:29:19 -!- Fa1r_ has joined. 14:00:18 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:00:22 -!- Fa1r has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:33:57 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 14:46:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:54:47 25 euros is a lot of money to owe a teacher 15:02:20 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:18:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 16:30:00 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:49:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:49:56 -!- tokigun_ has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 16:53:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:54:11 i also owed a friend 30 euros, and had to pay 20 for an amplifier 16:54:24 this has been an expensive day. 16:56:40 occasionally i have some friends says let us have some lunch or dinner. such a day is quite expensive... 16:58:24 that's one cool nick :O 16:59:48 yup i have changed my nick months ago 8) 17:08:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 17:31:55 -!- jix has joined. 18:37:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:37:18 wtf???????? 18:37:25 ftw 18:37:27 lolcode just got onto boing boing 18:37:34 what 18:38:16 lolcode isn't functional... 18:38:21 oh, wait, it means 'working' in this context 18:38:24 i forgot boingboing was for retards 18:38:41 and it's obviously turing complete 18:51:31 lifthrasiir: what did you use to be? 18:54:29 bsmntbombdood: that norwegian article was about the Dutch/British closing of some OiNK network, and interviewed some norwegian lawyer for record and movie companies claiming there will soon be a similar crackdown in norway. He refused to say which network, although the article speculates that OiNK information will be provided by the british police to the norwegian one. 18:55:35 sounds me like the usual blather of journalists trying to bring a local perspective on an international case. 18:56:08 *to me 19:03:31 -!- Fa1r_ has changed nick to Fa1r. 19:35:41 oerjan: did they say anything about oink's database encryption or somesuch? 19:44:36 "according to a source tipping It-Avisen the OiNK member lists were encrypted to start with, and additionally equipped with a self-destruct mechanism triggering deletion unless they received a certain signal within a given time" 19:47:12 omg just like in the movies 19:53:13 haha 19:53:20 this member list will self distruct in 10 minutes 19:54:08 i'd love to have something like that, the problem is i'd lose my files quite quickly... 19:54:32 * oerjan wonders if the OiNK people were up-to-date with the Evil Overlord list 19:55:59 thanks oerjan 19:57:24 "I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely necessary. If it is necessary, it will not be a large red button labelled "Danger: Do Not Push". The big red button marked "Do Not Push" will instead trigger a spray of bullets on anyone stupid enough to disregard it. Similarly, the ON/OFF switch will not clearly be labelled as such." 19:59:17 "When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No."" 19:59:24 that pisses me off in movies and such 19:59:56 Needless dramatic pause leads to captured prisoner getting away? :) 20:00:16 Two people point a gun at each other, looking dr--BANG. Oh, well that was resolved easily. 20:00:21 yep, and it has the desirable side effect of explaining the plot 20:00:23 they should at least shoot the legs before explaining 20:03:21 GregorR: i agree! 20:03:57 "Now you shall be subjected to the worst death ever! It will involve: 1. a long explanation that I will tell you while you manage to escape 2. a long, drawn out, pointless death that would be trivial to escape from anyway" 20:05:12 "Mr Bond. Now that the sedative is wearing off, the feeling should start coming back in the whole of your body except your left leg." // "Why not my leg leg?" 20:05:18 "I removed it" 20:06:04 ?!?! 20:06:09 SimonRC: lmao 20:06:18 i don't remember that james bond movie... 20:06:22 Just an idea that future villains will fail to follow 20:06:36 not out of an actual movie, like duh 20:07:41 oh :P 20:07:49 that is perfect though 20:08:54 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:09:04 -!- jix has joined. 20:12:57 "If I'm eating dinner with the hero, put poison in his goblet, then have to leave the table for any reason, I will order new drinks for both of us instead of trying to decide whether or not to switch with him." 20:13:01 that one is bad 20:13:11 why are you having dinner with the hero instead of killing him? 20:26:42 i still don't use whitespace, but i gotta admit i find my old codes even too obscure to understand myself 20:26:48 void line(V a,V b,long c){if(a.x>XSZ&&b.x>XSZ)return;if(a.y>YSZ&&b.y>YSZ)return;if(a.x<0&&b.x<0)return;if(a.y<0&&b.y<0)return;if(abs(b.x-a.x)>abs(b.y-a.y)){if(a.x>b.x){double tmp=a.x;a.x=b.x;b.x=tmp;tmp=a.y;a.y=b.y;b.y=tmp;}double rat=(b.y-a.y)/(b.x-a.x);while(a.x<=b.x){pset((int)a.x,(int)a.y,c);a.y+=rat;a.x+=1;}}else{if(a.y>b.y){double tmp=a.x;a.x=b.x;b.x=tmp;tmp=a.y;a.y=b.y;b.y=tmp;}double rat=(b.x-a.x)/(b.y-a.y);while(a.y<=b.y){pset((int)a.x,(int)a.y,c) 20:27:31 the algorithm is trivial, and not a good one; and there was no linefeed :D 20:27:37 i don't think i even had it when i debugged 20:27:57 what the heck does that do 20:28:02 draws a line 20:28:10 ............ on what 20:28:19 using the pset function 20:28:24 what is pset 20:28:26 whatever that draws onto 20:28:34 that code doesn't specify it. 20:28:36 what is pset 20:28:44 you wanna see that? 20:28:46 why? 20:28:50 pset is the QBASIC name for the pixel-set function 20:28:57 but that's C 20:29:01 and other BASICs, I presume 20:29:04 wait 20:29:10 my father came 20:29:13 well one might ahve been named after the other 20:29:23 oklopol: that's... interesting 20:29:33 oklopol: well, obviously, otherwise ou wouldn't exist 20:29:44 yeah yeah, anyway, he left now 20:30:09 so... why do you wanna see pset? that just calls pset for the dots that would exist on a line between a and b, where a and b are vectors 20:30:22 using the "color" c as the third param 20:30:32 pset can be anything. 20:30:47 wait, why would your father being around change anything? 20:31:00 he doesn't want him to see his porn-irc client 20:31:04 i can't irc when my father starts asking me what i'm doing... 20:31:12 mine does that too 20:31:16 i know, i'm pathetic... 20:31:25 SimonRC: i think every father does 20:31:25 :p 20:31:31 doing one thing at a time is for insects 20:31:44 no, it is fore normal people 20:32:06 real geeks can concentrate on a task so much they forget to breath 20:32:09 e 20:32:14 "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" 20:32:14 "Writing code to interface with the BIOS for my hobby OS and improving my irc client." 20:32:14 "..." 20:32:14 "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" 20:32:32 (note: i have not actually tested the above) 20:32:46 i guess. i can actually irc and talk at the same time, in normal situations, but that was too complex a thought to express while talking irl at the same time 20:32:56 even though it was not that complex 20:33:09 i guess was for the normal people thing 20:33:14 Did I tell you I was doing some Forth experimenting? 20:33:23 whoisn't? 20:33:26 *+" " 20:33:31 :) 20:33:33 SimonRC: ??? 20:33:35 SimonRC: me too!! 20:33:41 did you write a forth in brainfuck? :) 20:33:46 no 20:33:53 ehird`: my father knows more about bios than me 20:33:53 I started before that 20:34:03 SimonRC: damnit 20:34:07 SimonRC: ok, what di dyou do then :P 20:34:20 when it comes to computers, i just own him at coding (which was his job for 20 years...) 20:35:17 I just threw together a small VM 20:35:37 it has a stack, a control stack, and main memory 20:35:37 ahh 20:35:44 hey, that's not forth-y :( 20:35:49 huh? 20:35:51 real forths access the system directly :| 20:35:51 yes it is 20:35:55 ah 20:36:07 none of this vm crap! ;p 20:36:11 well I didn't have a compiler that could do that 20:36:17 it is a very minimalist VM 20:36:22 gnu as can do that ;) 20:36:47 I am still assembling things by hand though 20:36:56 http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt very short gnu as forth system, comes with a tutorial which explains how it's done in great detail 20:36:58 it's very good 20:37:06 also, SimonRC, the stack is meant to go in main memory. :-) 20:37:41 well I didn't have net access at the time 20:37:54 still, jonesforth is worth a read 20:37:55 And I am still editing it in numbers, which is leet 20:37:57 it's really eye-opening 20:38:14 "1, 48, 60, 102, 22" <-- that is printdigit 20:38:36 pff, read jonesforth 20:38:45 it uses handy gnu as tricks like, oh, being able to do: 20:38:51 name: 20:38:51 .int x 20:38:51 .int y 20:38:51 ... 20:38:55 and refer to it as name 20:39:09 still as low level, not as hyper-1337-oh-wait-what-does-that-number-mean-again ;) 20:40:14 the only conditional I have is ?: 20:40:25 pff, jonesforth only has "branch" 20:40:33 read it! it doesn't take too long ;) 20:40:41 (it continues at http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.f.txt when it gets into forth) 20:40:43 shouldn't that be 1337? 20:41:21 (er, SimonRC not ehird`) 20:42:39 : FORTH COMPILER-SEMANTICS UNINTUITIVE GOOD ; 20:43:31 if you have less than a hundred commands, numbers are just as easy to use as words 20:43:47 oklopol: that is not the point 20:43:49 mnenomics are easier 20:44:17 bsmntbombdood: oklopol doesn't get "easy", he thinks that if /he/ knows how his code works (... right now... while he's writing it... for the first time...) then why should he do anything else 20:44:29 obviously incorrect, unless you want one session in your editor and then have to abandon it 20:45:30 i've never had any trouble reading my code after a long time, except for the sickest ones i've done; i'm just saying numbers are as eays to understand as words, if you just have a few of them to memorize. 20:45:54 I comment religiously 20:46:13 i don't comment religiously because i make my code self-documenting 20:46:17 this means not using numbers for words ;) 20:46:23 every time I want to add a word, I write it in BoredForth in a comment, then write the number underneath 20:46:34 I haven't got it bootstrapping yet :-( 20:46:40 seriously, you should read jonesforth 20:46:43 getting out of bootstrapping is simple 20:46:56 go, read it now, then go back to boredforth with your new knowledge :-) 20:48:22 I am reading 20:51:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 20:54:15 i have a new life goal! 20:54:20 create a programming language where this is cat: http://rafb.net/p/GhR1Hn14.html 20:55:25 NNNGHHH! (that was a comment) 20:56:01 :D 20:56:04 it would be awesome 20:56:16 having / and slash both as commands is beautiful 20:57:48 -!- jix has joined. 20:57:54 i like the line noise ones that have a theme going on... it gets a bit boring when it's fully random 20:58:05 question marks remind me of that... whatsit... 20:58:16 the language with splot and mulbruf 20:58:25 but the names were something completely different 20:58:39 ok, how about the ? / language 20:58:46 i don't know what it is, but it's crazy 20:59:22 yeah, that one 20:59:29 ah the one in the paste? 20:59:42 i think the one i mean is cakeprophet's, but not sure 21:00:05 also, where is that guy... i hate it when regulars dissappear 21:00:20 it's like losing a friend :'( 21:00:31 FNRK BRTRTRTR SKRNK SVRPTK 21:00:43 oerjan: isisaoa9838383 21:01:34 ASDSFEFEBR ERBTIA 21:01:39 floodfest 21:01:45 *garblefest 21:03:29 * SimonRC goes 21:04:40 how about this: 21:04:57 / changes all /s into ?s 21:04:57 ? does something 21:04:57 :P 21:06:30 ? is call/cc! 21:06:44 i'm pretty sure those semantics aren't tc :p 21:07:00 well call/cc wouldn't make any sense, but anyway xD 21:07:18 since... wtf is calling in a substitution language :) 21:08:18 ooh, how about something that operates on the program code as a data structure 21:08:21 and the commands modify it 21:14:09 =D 21:14:21 LISP! 21:14:28 that is not what lisp does 21:18:20 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:19:41 true, but it should 21:19:51 that'd be odd 21:19:55 since lisp is lists not strings 21:19:56 everything should be self-modifying 21:21:36 "data structure" need not mean "string"... 21:23:45 Lists are a data structure. 21:23:55 And everything in Lisp is a list. 21:23:59 ;) 21:24:01 yes 21:24:03 well 21:24:05 apart from atoms 21:24:09 and a bunch of other stuff :-) 21:24:37 pikhq: but lisp cannot modify itself 21:24:38 directly 21:24:47 well, it kind of can 21:25:16 Isn't that what Lisp macros *are*? 21:25:18 yes, but you cannot make a loop that keeps itself going by adding nested lists to itself for more to evaluate 21:25:25 hmm, perhaps. 21:25:34 oklopol is right, without eval 21:26:25 you could do something with rplacd, surely? 21:26:31 i think macros are a bit limited, not being first-class thingies, but you might be able to do program flow with them... haven't really used them enough to know. 21:26:40 rplacd? 21:26:40 hmm 21:26:48 (but maybe not in the code) 21:26:49 hooray for archaic cl names 21:26:50 um macros are first class 21:27:00 lisp macros are first-class.. 21:27:00 set-cdr!, not rplacd 21:27:10 ehird`: no they're not 21:27:28 yes they are 21:27:33 :| 21:27:39 ehird`: what lisp? 21:27:47 decent lisps 21:27:59 not in cl or scheme 21:28:38 hm, i thought scheme macros were first-class 21:28:52 ok, now someone has to implement first-class-macros using scheme macros :-) 21:29:01 ololobot lisp has first-class macros, but you can't define your own macros, so it's kinda retarded ;) 21:30:13 ololobot has a lisp? 21:30:16 get it in here! 21:30:18 i must test it 21:30:20 and hack on it 21:30:51 it's retarded, i tells ya! 21:30:52 but okay. 21:31:03 the whole thing is just a quick hack. 21:31:40 -!- ololobot has joined. 21:31:59 it just has a few basic things, and i'm not sure that's even a working version of it. 21:32:12 i'm too lazy to use the newest version, since it's on the other comp 21:32:19 >>> sch (+ 1 2) 21:32:21 3 21:32:25 yay. 21:32:42 >>> sch (define a (lambda (b c) (+ b c))) 21:32:43 () 21:32:43 >>> sch ((lambda (x y) x) 1 2) 21:32:44 1 21:32:48 >>> (a 2 4) 21:33:03 lol. 21:33:06 >>> sch (a 2 4) 21:33:08 6 21:33:09 i never learn 21:33:17 >>> sch (lambda (x) x) 21:33:18 21:33:32 >>> sch ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) 21:33:36 :-) 21:33:39 better kill that 21:33:45 ehird` beat me to it. 21:33:51 heh 21:34:03 >>> 2 21:34:07 >>> sch 2 21:34:08 i'm using python's __reload__ for "threading" 21:34:09 2 21:34:14 oklopol: how? 21:34:18 >>> sch `2 21:34:24 so... it basically dies when you reuse the command, i think 21:34:32 I CAN HAS ERROR MESSAGES? 21:34:33 hmm... not sure i have quoting in that version 21:34:34 >>> sch '2 21:34:36 None 21:34:38 >>> sch 'oko 21:34:39 None 21:34:40 wait, no quoting? 21:34:41 ummm 21:34:44 >>> sch (quote oko) 21:34:44 it's useless, then? 21:34:45 oko 21:34:48 ah 21:34:52 do you have quasiquote 21:34:54 aka ` 21:35:03 >>> sch `oko 21:35:06 >>> sch oko 21:35:07 None 21:35:14 that is, `(a b ,c d) is (list 'a 'b c 'd) 21:35:19 no, haven't implemented it in that version 21:35:20 quasiquoting is useful you should support it 21:35:28 but i think i even have the comma thingie in the new one 21:35:39 >>> sch (list 1 2 3) 21:35:42 (1 2 3) 21:36:33 >>> sch (eval 2) 21:36:34 2 21:36:49 >>> sch (define \ lambda) 21:36:50 () 21:36:53 does it remember definitions? 21:36:56 >>> sch \ 21:36:57 lambda 21:36:58 it should... 21:36:59 yay 21:37:00 yeah 21:37:03 >>> sch (\ (x) x) 21:37:04 21:37:42 primitives are always autoreloaded, so you can't kill them permanently 21:37:44 >>> sch (define \ (lambda (x y) (eval (list lambda (list x) y)))) 21:37:46 () 21:37:51 >>> sch (\ x x) 21:37:53 21:37:55 >>> sch ((\ x x) 2) 21:37:56 hmm 21:37:56 None 21:38:00 wait, what 21:38:26 umm umm 21:38:51 it seems it failed :< 21:39:01 but i don't know where 21:39:27 >>> sch (eval (list lambda (list x) 4)) 21:39:28 21:39:28 oh 21:39:39 >>> sch ((eval (list lambda (list x) 4)) 5) 21:39:40 4 21:39:52 x is evaluated. 21:40:03 -> it fales 21:43:44 back 21:43:48 ahh i see 21:43:57 well 21:44:00 it's hard, because 21:44:05 i WANT to evaluate x 21:44:10 (\ x y) should be (lambda (x) y) 21:44:14 my code SHOULD do that... 21:45:58 eh... no 21:46:06 yes 21:46:13 ahh, the problem is 21:46:17 is that (\ x y) fails right there 21:46:22 because x is evaluated right-there 21:46:23 bah 21:46:26 yeah, because \ isn't a macro anymore. 21:46:28 add a defmacro function 21:46:32 just a simple one 21:46:42 (defmacro name args code) 21:46:42 defmacro isn't a function 21:46:47 bsmntbombdood: yes, yes, i know 21:46:48 i typo'd 21:47:00 but yes, (DEFMACRO name args code) plz 21:48:18 :< 21:48:27 come on, it'll be trivial 21:48:30 make your own lisp and make it good ;) 21:48:36 no 21:48:37 :p 21:48:56 i'm too lazy to even run the new bot, you think i'll start adding stuff to it :D 21:49:04 nah, i won't 21:49:09 as long as your sch works, i'm happy :-) 21:49:41 i've been trying to make my wire drawing program all day, was doing graphics with windows' own drawing functions... i have no idea why, but that was my stupidest idea ever. 21:50:08 it seems to automatically redraw everytime i draw something, i have no idea how to make it wait until drawing is over... 21:51:04 so i tried to convert to sdl, but i can't find sdl_gfx for windows, and without it everything is too slow to use (if i just directly draw on the SDL_Surface, it's slow as hell...) 21:52:10 i know both those suck, and i should use opengl or something, but i'm so pissed off at having already spent hours trying to find the right functions, i don't really wanna start learning a new api... 21:52:52 I NEEW TO DRAW GRAY POINTS, DOTS, AND LINES, HOW THE FUCK CAN IT BE SO HARD 21:53:05 I'm writing a simple lisp in C now oklopol :-) 21:53:21 good for you 21:54:22 the problem with C is, i like having an interactive debugger, and they just don't seem to work... 21:54:28 gdb 21:54:34 gdb works 21:54:36 it works great 21:55:03 hmm... not sure i've tried that one 21:55:23 it's the gnu debugger 21:55:27 it is exceptionally good 21:56:09 can you get that for win? 21:56:14 sure 21:56:15 cygwin has it 21:56:17 i can't use my linux machine for graphics 21:56:23 MingW has it. 21:56:31 ok, but oklopol has cygwin 21:56:34 and i don't think he hsa mingw 21:56:47 To be honest, I doubt that the Cygwin one can debug non-Cygwin binaries. 21:56:51 it can 21:56:56 Well, there's that :) 21:57:13 rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing, and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order 21:57:16 wait what? 21:57:50 bsmntbombdood: where was that from? 21:57:57 firefly 21:58:06 That was bsmntbombdood's job description. 21:58:08 FEUER FREI 21:58:42 mini-lisp-implementation question 21:58:57 ints, longs, or bignums-as-list-of-digits-in-hexadecimal? 21:58:58 :-) 21:59:05 bugnums 21:59:13 but use 256-based 21:59:13 as a list of digits in hexadecimal? 21:59:14 hah 21:59:18 heh, naw 21:59:19 that's no fun 21:59:26 then you can't do things like 21:59:35 (parse-int (2 f 3 4 9 a 2 b)) 21:59:40 yes you can 21:59:46 ok fine 21:59:47 but meh 21:59:47 :P 22:00:00 why would you wanna waste half your chars? 22:00:18 and just use 4 out of 8 bits 22:00:20 i think i will just do a normal int 22:00:23 ;) 22:00:55 also, "strings" (when i make them) will just be atoms 22:01:10 so "a b c" will just be the syntax to get an atom of the same name because you can't put just a b c in code 22:01:11 and you can do 22:01:18 ("func" '"arg") 22:01:19 mwahaha 22:01:30 ew 22:01:40 bsmntbombdood: yes, but funny to implement 22:01:46 also, it makes shit a hell of a lot simpler 22:01:50 as i only need to provide one set of functions 22:01:50 ;) 22:03:51 bsmntbombdood: shall i make you ew some more? 22:03:55 i think i'll use REFERENCE COUNTING! 22:04:02 meh 22:04:13 that was meant to make you explode 22:04:42 reference couning isn't bad 22:04:55 ok, you're right 22:04:55 :P 22:04:59 damn 22:05:00 reference counting is okay in most situations 22:05:08 it even works perfectly for lambda calculus 22:05:16 well, in all really, who cares about memory leaks, not me 22:05:45 #define NIL ((LIST *)0) 22:05:45 where LIST is a struct. am I evil yet? 22:05:47 Use reference counting, and also have a GC. The GC will be called so rarely it's not a big overhead, but it's there for circular refs. 22:06:01 yeah, that's prolly the best way 22:06:15 GregorR: but that's, you know. work. 22:06:23 refcounting = so damn trivial to implement 22:06:26 gc = not that much 22:06:48 GC = #include -lgc 22:06:55 it's not that hard if you make a trivial one 22:06:57 (OK, so that's an ultralame solution :) ) 22:06:57 yes, but that would be THIRD-PARTY 22:06:57 :O 22:07:05 i implemented a gc once 22:07:21 and the gc/refcounter is a pretty integral part of lisp 22:07:38 using a third-party solution seems kind of like deferring list handling to a library :-)( 22:07:38 *:-) 22:08:05 ok, one question 22:08:16 am i the only one obsessed with metacircular interpreters and bootstrapping? 22:08:30 whenever i implement a language, i force myself to do the minimum possible, then write the rest in itself 22:08:33 i can't help it 22:09:22 That's the best way to go. 22:09:32 Plof3 is just a parser. 22:09:37 GregorR: I mean even things like "if" 22:09:38 gdb is too hard for me to install 22:09:48 ehird`: Plof3's if is implemented in Plof3. 22:09:52 And - (it's obviously (+ x (neg y))!) 22:09:58 i really need the secretary... 22:09:59 ehird`: EHello, Plof2's if is implemented in Plof2. 22:10:06 EHello = Hell (wtf?) 22:10:12 sorry, i have no idea what plof is 22:10:17 :O 22:10:17 Heh 22:10:21 what... 22:10:23 http://www.codu.org/plof/ 22:10:29 that's like not knowing what pebble is ^2 22:10:35 oh, it's a serious language? 22:10:43 or like not knowing what brainfuck is ^-7 22:10:48 ehird`: Yeah. 22:10:51 ok show me some examples 22:11:31 I have none, as my brain is entirely in Plof3 but my implementation is entirely in Plof2 :P 22:11:42 show me some plof3 examples 22:11:46 from your brain./ 22:12:13 Well, Plof3 is a simple stack language with just some object manipulation operators, and a runtime parser. 22:12:29 The parser is bootstrapped with a grammar just simple enough to define a useful grammar within the language. 22:12:50 code examples. 22:12:51 I can give some simple Plof2 examples. . . 22:13:14 i thought i could, but i've forgotten some crucial things about it :< 22:13:35 (x):{x(x);}((x):{x(x);}); 22:13:44 bah, i don't want to write a hash table in C for the variable table 22:13:45 No starting with horrifying examples :P 22:13:46 == 22:13:59 ((lambda x (x x)) (lambda x (x x))) 22:14:00 pikhq: something that isn't (\x. x x) (\x. x x) 22:14:03 um i can tell 22:14:04 ;0 22:14:07 Ah. 22:14:26 Tell ya what - if you wait 4 hours until I'm not at work, I can make some good'ns :P 22:14:39 lol work 22:14:45 someone tell me a cheap way to get around writing a hash table 22:15:02 ehird`: Use D :) 22:15:53 noes 22:15:53 :P 22:16:03 Use Tcl. 22:16:04 i want to frolic in the fields of malloc 22:16:05 :p 22:16:10 and low-level ness 22:16:20 hmm... i have mingw... 22:16:20 Don't use a hash table. 22:16:41 ehird`: I recommend pulling the latest Plof, and playing. 22:16:43 Use a linear-linked list of variable->value associations :P 22:16:50 GregorR: i might just ;) 22:17:00 i'll have: 22:17:05 ((var . value) (var . value)) 22:17:08 It's Lispy! ;) 22:17:12 alist 22:17:19 ok, what humorous name shall i give to my malloc-but-dies-on-error 22:17:25 also linear time lookup 22:17:28 i am thinking "moolloc" 22:17:42 Spank that ass, put it in, let's go for a hell of a ride.. 22:18:11 void *buf = spankThatAssPutItInLetsGoForAHellOfARide(bufferSize); 22:18:17 yes! 22:20:51 I wonder, if I really hunkered down, if I could get Plof3 written this weekend. 22:21:15 but seriously, what should i call the malloc 22:21:43 mallocAssert? 22:21:51 sfMalloc? 22:22:03 i know! 22:22:05 i'll call it: 22:22:06 AWESOME 22:22:15 AWESOME(buf_size) 22:22:15 lolloc? 22:22:38 iCanHasMemory 22:22:41 wonder what it'd cost if i paid someone to install me a C compiler + a graphics library + nice ide with debugging :) 22:23:18 smalloc i guess 22:23:21 i hate that name 22:25:22 hmm 22:25:28 i should probably have a heap with all objects on 22:25:31 shouldn't i? 22:25:44 ... hey, that'd make for an easy GC: if an object is on the heap but not on the stack, zap 22:25:49 ... wait, no, that wouldn't work, would it? 22:25:50 oklopol: On what? 22:26:36 on my computer 22:26:47 on my watch, plz 22:26:49 he uses windows 22:26:53 yeah 22:26:55 ;( 22:27:10 someone tell me i'm stupid - 22:27:11 well.. i'd go for Dev-Cpp + SDL 22:27:16 a GC that just checks: 22:27:21 but that's just me 22:27:23 i can't find SDL_gfx 22:27:28 if (on_heap && not_on_stack) free(obj) 22:27:33 where heap is, well, EVERY SINGLE OBJECT 22:27:38 ... that won't work as a gc will it? 22:27:46 i mean, global variables and the like surely? 22:27:52 if someone can link me an SDL_gfx for windows, i'd appreciate it 22:28:05 oklopol: sdl 22:28:07 google for it 22:28:12 or 22:28:14 libsdl.org 22:28:14 i have sdl 22:28:18 sdl has sdl_gfx 22:28:18 okay 22:28:21 no 22:28:27 not automatically 22:28:35 anyway 22:28:41 someone please tell me my gc idea 22:28:44 wouldn't work/would work 22:28:45 :P 22:28:50 http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-devel-1.2.12-mingw32.tar.gz 22:28:52 hm 22:28:59 seems that one got it already 22:29:16 that is, for dev-cpp/mingw compiling 22:29:20 ehird`: It seems to me like you're deleting every object from that. 22:29:27 GregorR: not objects that are on the stack 22:29:39 "error after processing 0 entries" 22:29:44 i love it how everything just works! 22:29:49 oklopol uses winzip, also. 22:29:55 ehird`: If it's on the stack, you don't need a GC, it'll get deleted when the stack unwinds. 22:29:59 yeah, it's the defautl 22:30:00 *default 22:30:07 GregorR: right but what about ... globals and stuff 22:30:37 i have about 5 zipping programs 22:30:41 Let me put it this way: I have no idea what that GC is doing, so I can't tell you if it's correct. 22:30:41 where are we going tomorrow, as with windows today 22:33:01 GregorR: :-) 22:33:27 ehird`: doesn't look correct 22:33:45 well, what i'm doing with the heap is 22:33:48 the heap is a linked list 22:33:51 hmm 22:33:53 i'm hungry 22:33:56 latest element = most recently allocated object 22:34:02 etc, so on backwards 22:34:11 if something isn't on the stack, then it isn't being used any more 22:34:14 so i can search the heap 22:34:17 find stuff that isn't on the stack 22:34:18 and free it 22:34:19 wrong 22:34:20 err... 22:34:23 exactly 22:34:25 i thought it was wrong 22:34:31 Things on the heap can link to other things on the heap. 22:34:36 That's the entire challenge of GCs :P 22:34:37 ok 22:34:37 that will work as long as you can't make any compound objects 22:34:38 i'll just refcount 22:34:39 :P 22:34:46 what GregorR said. 22:34:48 (cons a b) is on the stack, a and b aren't 22:35:02 ehird`: you can read my gc, it's pretty simple 22:35:11 heh, i've just realised my refcount comments are like forth stack comments 22:35:14 i have things like: 22:35:23 /* REF +1 x, REF -1 y */ 22:35:35 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/gc.tar 22:36:05 everyone has weird domains in their urls 22:36:07 like kwzs.be 22:36:10 why do i have boring ones 22:36:11 :P 22:36:21 Mine is codu.org 22:36:25 That's not too weird. 22:38:46 mine is elliotthird.org 22:38:48 i am so imaginative 22:38:56 nvg has the nuts.edu domain 22:39:15 mingw... does that have an ide? 22:39:26 but it's not the default used 22:39:34 it seems everything without an ide is too hard for me. 22:39:51 i wanna press "run" or "debug", not switch between windows :| 22:47:51 phew, most of the object stuff is done 22:48:07 now i can write simple helper functions in C, the eval function, and the core stuff 22:48:08 :P 22:48:12 it's 150 lines right now 22:50:01 oklopol: how long has your lisp had macros? 22:50:04 since the start? 22:50:13 i want to feel not-too-bad about omitting macros right now 22:50:14 :P 22:50:37 lambda, define and if were almost the first thing i did... but that's all the macros it has, really 22:50:44 well, yeah, list and quote 22:50:48 they're not macros 22:50:50 they're special forms 22:50:53 and prolly a few more, but there's no real macro support 22:50:56 ah, sorry. 22:51:03 so it doesn't actually do any macro transformations? 22:51:17 just some special form things? i.e. functions that don't have their arguments evaluated? 22:51:22 then there are *no* macros, it has first-class macros, which cannot be created.. 22:51:30 :) 22:51:34 does it substitute them for their code while "compiling"? 22:51:38 or does it "call" them when evaluating? 22:51:40 special forms are first-class 22:51:43 in mine 22:51:43 if its the latter, you have no macros 22:52:08 yeah, i thought special forms are a subclass of macors. 22:52:10 *maroccos 22:52:32 marco 22:52:34 how is your evaluator structured? 22:52:36 polo 22:52:37 recursive or using a stack? 22:52:41 since its python i guess recursive 22:52:41 recursive 22:52:44 but recursive kind of sucks in c :p 22:52:50 recursive is using a stack... 22:52:57 bsmntbombdood: yes, but it's an implicit stack 22:53:07 and as far as i know it's bad practice to recurse in a situation like this 22:53:13 :-) (i.e. having NO stack in the whole language) 22:53:27 umm 22:53:30 it's the same thing 22:53:32 for a while now i've been wanting to make my own assembly, and start making languages targeted for it 22:53:45 bsmntbombdood: i guess 22:53:50 oh well i might just recurse 22:53:52 and change it later 22:53:52 :-) 22:54:05 and yay, my installation was almost complete, then it popped up for some reason, and i pressed "C" while typing on the channel, and cancelled it :)) 22:54:39 Rock ON 22:55:43 i should do all my coding on paper... using the computer seems to be too hard for me :P 22:56:03 good plan 22:56:07 hard to test though 22:56:39 shit, i just realised 22:56:43 variable scoping. 22:56:50 oklopol: what scoping do you do? lexical? 22:56:54 yeah 22:56:55 i've never been able to implement lexical scoping 22:56:56 :( 22:56:58 ummmmmm 22:57:00 it's trivial 22:57:10 although it took me a while to actually grasp how it's done 22:57:11 lexical scope is the only reasonable scope 22:57:12 maybe the descriptions i've read of its algorithm are just wrong i guess 22:57:17 bsmntbombdood: yeah i know =( 22:57:20 well hey 22:57:25 lisp 1 used dynamic scope 22:57:31 it's really easy to implememnt 22:57:39 bsmntbombdood: dynamic scoping is fun sometimes, when used correctly. 22:57:49 noooooo 22:58:00 yes. 22:58:06 how 22:58:17 i think what lisp needs is a new dialect (Not being sarcastic here :P) 22:58:20 * GregorR <3 dynamic scoping. 22:58:31 scheme started off OK, but then it kind of tripped up and it's kind of trawling along in limbo right now 22:58:34 common lisp is just /ugly/ 22:58:43 bsmntbombdood: i don't really have a convincing argument about that. 22:58:46 cl is terrible 22:58:50 Uncommon LISP 22:58:53 bsmntbombdood: i agree 22:58:57 but it's nice sometimes 22:59:02 GregorR: haha 22:59:04 scheme is b e a utiful 22:59:18 bsmntbombdood: scheme is beautiful but it has been in limbo for a while now 22:59:24 so? 22:59:25 okay, i'll retry the install 22:59:33 let's hope i don't press C again 22:59:36 that just means it doesn't need any improvement 22:59:39 i'll just type without it. 22:59:47 so, a new dialect that combined scheme's beauty with unique practicality... 22:59:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:59:59 i'm sure it would fail 23:00:08 perhaps, perhaps not 23:01:54 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:02:02 ehird`: static scoping == when you create a function that encloses variables x, y etc., store the values of those variables (which you will find in the upper scope) in a closure or whaddyacallit and carry that around with the function 23:02:31 i know the theory 23:02:35 but every time i've tried to implement it 23:02:36 it's just failed 23:02:49 hmm, mine worked like that, but ...python <3 23:02:56 *just like 23:03:04 show me your code? :P 23:03:05 it's really easy 23:03:09 yeah 23:03:10 or rather, olololisp's code 23:03:23 nah 23:03:28 =( 23:03:38 you get so judgy. 23:03:50 i just wanted to see olololisp's code, haha 23:04:32 no matter how many times i tell people who wanna see my code that i already know everything that's wrong with it, and i just don't care, since i code for fun; still everyone needs to tell me the same things over and over again. 23:04:49 sheesh, i won't 23:04:55 aogji 23:04:56 don't be so pessimisticf 23:04:56 :P 23:04:59 okay, i'll paste... 23:05:37 i'm very pessimistic, i've been making a FUCKING PROGRAM FOR DRAWING LINES for like 6 hours 23:05:46 well, most of the time, like 5 hours, i've been idling 23:05:52 that's 1 byte in my language 23:05:55 DrawingLinesLanguage 23:05:57 and it's actually ready, i just don't have a graphics lib... but still 23:06:03 the program: ; 23:06:05 :) 23:06:15 darn, wish i'd used that one! 23:06:29 Is DrawingLinesLanguage TC? 23:06:33 GregorR: yes! 23:06:39 AWESOME 23:07:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Success). 23:08:05 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p255331634.txt try to keep in mind this was done in 2~3 hours, and was not meant for another human to see, ever. 23:08:21 well, the core was, i may have added stuff like quote later on. 23:09:54 Y'know, recently a concept for encoding descriptive metadata into programs was created. 23:09:57 It's called "comments" 23:10:01 You may want to try that out. 23:10:16 GregorR: thanks for doing exactly what i said you would ;) 23:10:23 i was about to say. 23:10:29 exactly what oklopol just said. 23:10:47 "Not meant for another human to see" != "free of comments" 23:10:59 "oklopol: no matter how many times i tell people who wanna see my code that i already know everything that's wrong with it, and i just don't care, since i code for fun; still everyone needs to tell me the same things over and over again." 23:11:19 hmm, why? english isn't any more descriptive than python to me :| well, prolly is, but i'll never admit that officially. 23:12:37 i'll start commenting once i learn lojban 23:12:38 ! 23:13:14 the conlang i've been creating actually has an oklotalk module ;) 23:13:35 so... you could just write the code and the comments in the same language 23:13:36 what 23:13:39 haha 23:13:41 so, like 23:13:45 you can speak, in your languge 23:13:47 in oklotalk? 23:13:56 doesn't that make talking to people non-deterministic? lmao 23:14:06 "MENTAL STACK OVERFLOW, BRAINS NOW OUT OF HEAD" 23:14:16 err... sure 23:14:21 bah, i don't have a function type 23:14:27 you can read oklotalk code in english too... 23:14:46 it's just in english reading characters is quite verbose unless they form words. 23:15:21 # TODO: 23:15:21 # list stuph 23:15:25 commentz! 23:15:40 that's already been done though... 23:15:58 also some stuff is commented out! 23:16:02 woot, i have unified functions and special forms 23:16:03 and there are code examples! 23:16:05 i just have a special attribute 23:16:12 which specifies whether to map(eval, args) 23:16:13 :-) 23:16:21 yeah. 23:16:38 anyway 23:16:49 oklopol: so to implement lexical scoping 23:16:55 i have a "main mapping" 23:17:06 which is just your regular varname=>value mapping 23:17:14 then for a new scope (well, only scope is functions here, so:) 23:17:18 then for a new lambda 23:17:24 i have a seperate lookup table 23:17:26 at the start 23:17:33 i copy the current lookup table over to it 23:17:38 and then that's my scope 23:17:44 and i just bind vars, etc., whatever to that scope 23:17:46 yeah, lambdas carry a look-up table with them. 23:17:50 OK 23:17:52 so i have: 23:17:55 MAIN_TABLE 23:17:59 LAMBDA->LOOKUP_TABLE 23:18:02 TABLE_IM_USING_RIGHT_NOW 23:18:13 i need TABLE_IM_USING because i will copy LAMBDA->LOOKUP_TABLE to it 23:18:24 so, when i do (set var value) and the like 23:18:27 it isn't carried over calls 23:18:29 am I right here? 23:18:30 umm... when you use a lambda, it will not use any variables from the outer scope. 23:18:38 that only happens when you *create* it 23:18:47 yes 23:18:54 a lambda must always carry everything it uses, except for args 23:19:01 ihmm 23:19:02 *hmm 23:19:26 i need TABLE_IM_USING_RIGHT_NOW 23:19:29 to put arguments 23:19:35 and variables that i set 23:19:35 e.g. 23:19:41 (lambda (x) (set blah x)) 23:19:45 blah shouldn't carry across calls 23:19:51 it's not carried over calls, if you do a set, true. 23:19:57 so new variables go to TABLE_IM_USING instead of LAMBDA->LOOKUP_TABLE 23:20:02 unless you pass by argument 23:20:13 basically, TABLE_IM_USING is "if i'm in a function, put new stuff and arguments in here" 23:20:34 sound reasonable? 23:20:55 hmm, i think so, although i am pretty tired 23:21:11 ok 23:21:18 hey, i thought of a good way to do variables without hash-tables 23:21:31 you have a backwards-linked list (i.e. you have a "TOP" and they have a "previous" property) 23:21:33 wuzzit? 23:21:39 with, a string as name 23:21:41 and object as value 23:21:42 obviously 23:21:49 so, to make a new variable, obviously you push it to the list 23:21:56 and you start from the top and go down to find a variable 23:21:57 BUT 23:22:00 when you want to change a variable 23:22:04 instead of finding it, then changing it 23:22:10 it finds it, deletes it, then pushes a new one 23:22:20 this takes advantage of the fact that recently-set variables are more likely to be used recently 23:22:20 what was the reason for not using a hash table for vars? 23:22:23 = less lookup time 23:22:27 and because i don't want to implement one in C :P 23:22:34 ah 23:23:02 so 23:23:04 sound reasonable? 23:23:26 well, first of all you should assing each atom... well, string that's used as an atom in your case i guess... an integer value, for O(1) equality 23:23:30 well, not should 23:23:31 could. 23:23:39 assing? 23:23:40 :P 23:23:46 and really, they do have one... the object id 23:23:56 although, my stuff is weird 23:23:57 and... hmm... that list thing might be good, but a hash table would pwn it 23:23:59 for example 23:23:59 ass-sing. 23:24:02 integers are allocated on-use 23:24:08 instead of saving them for later 23:24:10 like most languages 23:24:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:24:15 so, "3" is a different 3 each time 23:24:15 :-) 23:24:46 that doesn't really make much difference :) 23:25:26 but, what do you mean about an integer/string mapping 23:25:28 like a godel number? 23:25:52 mingw doesn't have an ide, or? 23:26:12 like a hashval 23:26:20 object id sounded right. 23:26:39 it isn't a hash 23:26:55 let's picture a repl session 23:27:12 > (id "hello") 23:27:12 34 23:27:12 > (id "hello") 23:27:12 37 23:27:14 see? 23:27:26 all objects - symbol, string (well, symbol :P), number, or list 23:27:33 are different each time you mention one as a literal 23:28:25 yeah, okay, well, the idea of using atoms is that you can just assign each atom a number, and forget the string the atom represents 23:28:43 yeah, well :P 23:28:48 except you need to store a num->string mapping separately, since you can access the atom string at runtime 23:31:20 my way follows the scheme-to-c compiler ichbins 23:31:24 which does the same as me 23:31:25 no hashing 23:31:29 and symbol == string 23:33:20 yeah 23:33:32 i guess that's not really necessary. 23:33:38 i mean, atoms in general. 23:33:59 my lisp will have a grand total of four types 23:34:04 cons, symbol, number, lambda 23:34:47 (cons is (a . b) or (cons a b)... lists are cons. (EL1 EL2 EL3) is (cons EL1 (cons EL2 (cons EL3 NIL))) where NIL is the empty list) 23:35:24 yeah, that's how lisp always workz 23:35:31 yeah 23:36:11 hey, i think i found an ide for mingw, dev-cpp! 23:36:12 ... 23:36:20 when i get this lisp (it's called Xlisp. officially "the X means it's awesome" but I just couldn't think of anything better) done, I'm going to bind a few C libs to it (like sockets) then write an irc bot in it :D 23:36:25 the irc bot, of course, will be scriptable in the language 23:36:30 oklopol: that was suggested to you... ages ago 23:36:34 i used to have dev-cpp... the debug didn't work 23:37:02 oh, indeed 23:37:21 i have read the line before and after that, but don't remember seeing that line :P 23:37:34 also, i've used dev-cpp, it just doesn't work 23:37:36 *didn't 23:37:44 perhaps it now does 23:38:55 if it doesn't work, i don't know what to do 23:39:21 all this installing isn't good for my health 23:44:32 heh 23:45:13 someone give me a three-letter abbreviation for 'lambda' 23:46:44 i'd prolly go with lbd 23:47:11 ok 23:47:52 o 23:47:53 m 23:47:53 g 23:47:58 debuggin actually works. 23:48:00 haha 23:48:02 *debugging 23:48:04 it uses gdb 23:48:05 :-) 23:48:20 now try a program in it, and realise the awesome of gdb 23:48:21 but... it works! it didn't work when i last installed that :) 23:48:25 * oklopol is so happy <3 23:48:25 main commands that you need: 23:48:31 set args ... 23:48:31 sets the command-line args 23:48:35 start/stop ... starts or stops 23:48:39 step step one instruction 23:48:52 next step one instruction but don't show e.g. what nested functions are doing 23:48:57 continue go until we die 23:49:02 tb get the traceback when we've died 23:49:12 print ANY_C_EXPRESSION_HERE wut is dis? 23:49:13 umm... how do i set args? :| 23:49:18 it's things you type 23:49:27 you type "set args a b c d" to set the args to "a b c d" 23:49:33 "start" to start the program, "stop" to stop it 23:49:41 "step" to go forwards one instruction 23:49:48 but... i assume you don't mean i should write them in the source code... 23:49:50 "next" to step forwards one instruction but skip inner function calls 23:49:54 "continue" until we die 23:50:01 "tb" get the traceback when we've died, "print BLAH" to show BLAH 23:50:01 and 23:50:04 you do it in the debugger 23:50:05 you type it in 23:50:09 to the debugger. 23:50:35 wait 23:50:35 bah 23:50:38 dev-c++ doesn't use gdb 23:50:40 useless 23:50:41 really useless 23:50:43 :| 23:50:47 i see.. 23:50:50 well, it does internally i think 23:50:57 but it doesn't let you command it using the gdb interface 23:51:01 but it's better than VC6 23:51:04 just it's key-combinations which presumably are severely lacking 23:51:39 Debug -> Parameters 23:51:45 omg i found something myself. 23:51:48 AHA 23:51:50 i've got it 23:51:56 tell 23:51:57 in teh bottom bar 23:52:00 click the Debug tap 23:52:03 then click Output 23:52:08 you can see the output and send a command to gdb 23:52:15 now, use that, and accept no other interface for debugging. ;) 23:52:54 err 23:52:59 just make sure to put a breakpoint on your first line 23:53:01 so you can use the interface 23:53:21 ah 23:53:35 hey cool 23:53:46 now SDL... 23:53:58 so does the gdb commands work? 23:53:59 that shouldn't be hard to get working on that, right? 23:54:01 it should 23:54:03 and yeah, it's trivial 23:54:07 hmm, i can test 23:54:09 just try and compile an sdl program 23:54:11 it miiiight work 23:54:54 hmm... doesn't seem to work... 23:54:59 i mean 23:55:04 gdb 23:55:37 oh 23:55:38 it does. 23:55:40 now sdl 23:56:00 might work without installing SDL? 23:56:00 nice 23:56:27 can't find SDL.h :O 23:56:30 how can that be :) 23:56:37 you didn't put it in your include path 23:59:13 hmm 2007-10-27: 00:02:31 jesus christ! ##c is terrible 00:08:53 I recall getting an answer to a question in ##c once. It took many hours and more insults and answers, but I did get it. 00:09:14 If I had a C question (which I never do because I'm meeeeeeeee) I'd ask in #esoteric :P 00:09:21 haha# 00:09:30 poppavic has to be the single most infuriating rambling idiot ever 00:10:16 rambling, yes 00:10:19 idiot, yes 00:10:37 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:10:37 but he's only infuriating if you're trying to argue with him. Don't. 00:10:54 when you don't, he's actually kinda funny. 00:11:16 i've always thought i could write a program that spews out nonsense at about the same rate as poppavic does 00:11:19 i might try it 00:12:36 :-) 00:13:48 hmm, so... about the sdl 00:13:50 :P 00:14:16 do i just copy the files in \bin to the \bin of mingw and so on? 00:14:38 and no, i've never really dl'd libraries :P 00:15:15 you know, you'd have a lot easier job if you just used a cygwin-based build system 00:15:17 gcc, gdb 00:15:21 make 00:15:28 well ok, you shouldn't use make yourself 00:15:30 but sdl uses make 00:15:31 ;) 00:15:54 hmm... i couldn't find gdb in the cygwin setup.. 00:16:11 it's there 00:16:15 i think it comes with gcc 00:16:26 i see 00:16:34 but anyway, gcc & gdb are top-notch tools and using them directly will benefit you greatly 00:16:37 oh 00:16:42 indeed it does 00:16:45 they're pretty much the gnu project's only decent achivements ;) 00:17:08 but... i kinda like a graphical view :| 00:17:40 -!- ehird` has left (?). 00:17:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:17:47 er sorry 00:17:47 but 00:17:51 * bsmntbombdood mangles GregorR 00:17:52 what is a graphical view to a compiler? 00:18:00 a compiler takes some code and makes a program 00:18:03 and tells you if anything is wrong 00:18:05 what is graphical about that? 00:18:07 not the compiler, the debugger 00:18:11 ok, a debugger 00:18:15 it tells you what line it's executing 00:18:18 and lets you tell it what to do 00:18:24 graphical-ness? none 00:18:43 it's nice seeing it highlight the current row in the code" 00:18:45 ! 00:18:56 it does, actually, with gdb 00:18:58 it shows you 00:19:04 it even gives you a line number 00:19:12 you see the file name, line number, and source code of the line 00:19:18 there's no "gdb" in cygwin anyway 00:19:24 yes, there, is 00:19:26 i'll try searching 00:19:33 $ gdb --version 00:19:33 GNU gdb 6.5.50.20060706-cvs (cygwin-special) 00:19:36 well, but not built-in 00:19:43 nothign in cygwin is built in!! 00:19:48 the whole POINT is that you run the setup to add stuff!! 00:19:50 gcc is 00:19:59 yes, because it's essential 00:20:03 but everything else is not 00:20:08 yeah 00:20:18 EVERY peice of software cygwin has - almost everything - is not by default 00:20:21 you run the setup 00:20:23 choose a category 00:20:24 tick the program 00:20:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:20:26 click next 00:20:27 it installs it 00:20:28 you use it 00:20:46 you happen to know where it is there? 00:20:46 :) 00:20:51 in Devel, obviously 00:21:18 it's only obvious if you don't read that as "Jewel" 00:21:33 haha 00:21:38 When I'm just looking for a specific program, I always set it to the full view. 00:21:47 The categories are often confusing. 00:21:51 GregorR: you use windows too? :( 00:22:02 Hell no. 00:22:06 * ehird` has to right now unfortunately 00:22:12 But in the exceedingly rare occasion when I'm forced to, I install Cygwin. 00:22:21 but nevertheless some sort of UNIX-based OS shall save the day! 00:22:30 it is a long story why i am not on the iMac over there right now 00:22:31 :P 00:23:39 i'll install linux once i get a new computer, although i'm starting to hate windows so much it might happen before that... 00:23:50 haha, oklopol, this is unexpected for you 00:23:56 i thought you hated open source. :p 00:24:17 1. i don't *hate* it, i'm more afraid of it. 00:24:17 (i might get an old thinkpad laptop, put debian and xmonad on... i could get one cheap) 00:24:22 oklopol: haha :-) 00:24:26 2. i've never liked windows 00:25:17 So. Gregor is getting a video watch. Isn't that cool?!?!?!?!!? :P 00:25:27 wrist watch? 00:25:33 Yup 00:25:51 um 00:25:52 what 00:25:54 um 00:25:55 does it have wifi 00:25:56 ?? 00:26:03 and can it run a browser? 00:26:04 if so 00:26:07 i have only one thing to say 00:26:08 CGI:IRC. 00:26:12 GregorR: what does that mean? 00:26:17 *EXPLOSION* 00:28:27 It means it's a watch that can play videos :) 00:28:35 (And MP3s, which is why I bought it :P ) 00:28:46 stfu greasy nerd kid with glasses 00:28:59 GregorR: ok but DOES IT HAVE WIFI 00:29:18 ehird`: No, it is not a palmtop on your wrist :P 00:29:26 damnit 00:29:33 because a watch running cgi:irc 00:29:36 would be beyond the boundries of cool 00:29:50 lol 00:29:58 No, it is not the GNU/Linux watch from IBM :P 00:30:06 damnit!! stop giving me IDEAS! 00:30:21 imagine a watch, that ran a real window manager 00:30:24 and ran real X11 programs 00:30:30 and had a real computer 00:30:30 but 00:30:34 it was a fucking WATCH 00:30:37 and it goes on your WRIST 00:30:44 ehird`: possibly the most useless thing ever? 00:30:48 lament: AWESOME 00:30:53 GregorR: why the hell would you want to watch videos on your watch? 00:31:05 lament: I don't, I want an MP3 player on my watch :P 00:31:11 maybe even your FUCKING WRIST if you do odd things with your wrist... 00:31:14 meh 00:31:32 lament: But all the MP3 player watches that didn't play videos had physical analog timepieces (wtf?) 00:31:53 timepieces :O 00:31:54 hah 00:32:05 GregorR: i am now, sometime, going to make a linux watch which runs X11 00:32:15 * oklopol learned a new word 00:32:17 it will also have a flip-out mini keyboard 00:32:17 ehird`: Go talk to IBM. They already made one. 00:32:23 DOES THEIRS HAVE THE ABOVE? 00:32:32 GregorR: so you bought it for the mp3 player. Does that mean you'll plug headphones into your wrist watch? 00:32:35 does theirs have a screen relatively big?! (but still wrist-fitting) 00:32:38 lament: Yup. 00:32:43 ehird`: Google. 00:32:49 GregorR: shush 00:32:51 mine would be better 00:32:53 because, mine would like 00:32:55 run bash 00:32:55 and stuf 00:32:56 f 00:32:58 by default. 00:33:02 and, like, it would be cool. 00:33:03 yeah. 00:33:09 ehird`: cool it would not be. 00:33:12 the watch would be SCRIPTABLE 00:33:13 <__< 00:33:21 GregorR: why not just get an mp3 player? 00:33:29 and you could CUSTOMIZE THE DISPLAY 00:33:29 it's lame 00:33:30 and add a BACKGROUND 00:33:33 >:( 00:33:35 and analog clocks pwn digital ones 00:33:49 lament: Because my PDA watch broke so I don't have anything nerdy in watch form factor? And the price was right. 00:34:03 PDA WATCH????? 00:34:07 ok, now the idea is fully formed 00:34:10 i will make the WATCHPUTER 00:34:17 GregorR: ah, so it's a status symbol as a geek? 00:34:18 it will have a fold-out tiny-keyboard 00:34:24 a rather big screen for a watch 00:34:28 wi-fi and bluetooth 00:34:32 laaame 00:34:33 customizable watch display 00:34:35 alarm 00:34:38 lament: There ya go ^^ 00:34:41 and IT WILL RUN X11 APPS 00:34:45 i win 00:34:52 ehird`: girls will love it! 00:34:53 *ahem* ehird`: STFU 00:35:03 >:( 00:35:21 remember those watches with a calculator? 00:35:28 braces, pocket protector, and a watch with a calculator? 00:35:53 HEWW YEAHS! 00:35:53 http://www.watchluxus.com/brands/nivrel/erotic_watches/erotica 00:35:57 erotic watches? 00:36:07 i have a pocket protector :D 00:36:53 bsmntbombdood: My video watch playing extremely low-resolution porn will be far higher-quality erotica :P 00:37:09 what is the resolution on it? 00:37:11 8x8? 00:37:16 128x128 00:37:23 ahahaha 00:37:35 But it's bigger than QQVGA! :P 00:37:35 that's not bad 00:37:48 hahaha 00:37:49 i think that's what my palm had 00:37:56 someone modernized the old emacs backronym 00:37:58 For a watch, it's pretty respectable. I downscaled a few videos and they're watchable *shrugs* 00:37:59 it's enough for reading books 00:38:09 Eight Megabytes and Constantly Swapping -> Eighty Megabytes and Constantly Swapping 00:38:35 ehird`: HEY! That's called PROGRESS. 00:38:39 ;) 00:38:41 * ehird` gose now 00:38:42 goes 00:39:02 i need to buy a watch, but i can't find one that looks decent 00:39:25 i want a watch 00:39:29 but a mechanical one 00:40:05 none of this stupid video-mp3-naked-woman crap 00:40:47 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:41:09 Pocketwatch! 00:41:23 If you won't go tech, go classique! 00:41:43 i want a chinese kid for a watch 00:42:03 imagine it ticking once a second! 00:42:09 a pocket watch would work 00:46:31 pocket watches are awfully inconvenient, I already have a cellphone in my pocket that tells the time just fine 00:47:17 i wonder if you could learn to run a clock in your head 00:47:46 that'd be pretty awesum 00:48:08 not anybody "normal" 00:48:19 and not with any accuracy 00:48:48 i'd never carry a cell phone though 00:49:14 bsmntbombdood: it's not that bad 00:49:18 i don't consider myself normal enough not to try that, i'll begin training tomorrow 00:49:31 oklopol: tell me how it goes 00:49:46 haha, you think i can actually keep a routine going ;) 00:50:01 well, i've managed to do that sometimes, but it's very unlikely 00:50:10 although that would be an extremely cool thing to try 00:50:33 bsmntbombdood: cellphones are actually ridiculously convenient 00:50:50 suuuure 00:50:52 if you don't want to be bothered, you can always just turn it off 00:51:14 what if i don't want to be tracked by the feds? 00:51:21 um 00:51:25 turn it off 00:51:26 move to Canada? 00:51:27 i don't need to call anyone either 00:51:53 wish i didn't either 00:52:38 hmm... i hope i get sdl working tomorrow, then i have a good 24 hours to code my circuit thingie :P 00:53:21 it would be easy enough to keep time by yourself in the foreground 00:54:12 hmm, i think i'll try timing a minute until i can always do that, then move to longer intervals 00:54:26 i usually get 57..1:03 when i try 00:55:27 hmm... doesn't really sound possible not to have *any* error, and it accumulates quite fast :| 00:56:07 perhaps i'll put a machine under my skin to gimme a little shock every 5 seconds 00:56:17 then i'll just learn to count them subconsciously 00:56:32 easy as killing a pie 00:56:41 consider a machine on your wrist that tells you the time 00:57:04 a friend has a binary watch, that's kinda neat 00:57:19 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/ 00:57:44 i've been thinking of getting one myself 00:58:23 but i don't like wearing a watch 00:58:47 heh, http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/6dc1/ 00:59:36 certainly not worth $600, though 00:59:49 bsmntbombdood: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/74ce/ 01:00:04 bsmntbombdood: get that one :) 01:00:17 Who the hell would buy that for $600 ... 01:00:48 * lament considers actually buying the slide rule watch 01:02:03 Someone short a real slide rule. 01:02:11 lament: It would be amusing to show that to somebody when they asked for the time ^^ 01:02:26 the slide rule one, or the earth one? 01:02:34 The slide-rule one. 01:02:45 seems to look fine 01:02:47 It has so many numbers and hands, if you didn't know most of them aren't involved in telling time you would just be confused :) 01:02:50 anybody can tell time from it 01:03:01 eh, the hour and minute hands are obvious 01:03:53 oh, i see, that watch is specifically for pilots 01:04:09 hence the unit conversions 01:04:40 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/954e/ <-- the watch I'm getting (for about half the price from a different site) 01:05:12 looks decent 01:05:20 not sure if it qualifies as a "watch" 01:05:52 When you're not watching a video, it displays the time :P 01:05:56 ahhhhhhh 01:05:56 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/706f/ 01:06:06 I. Want. 01:06:11 That's pretty cool. 01:06:25 the only problem is that it's inaccurate 01:06:32 since you can't adjust latitude 01:06:43 it's fixed to the average latitude in the states 01:06:51 I wonder what "Japanese movement" means ... 01:06:53 will be a little optimistic for canada 01:07:03 still i'm seriously considering buying that 01:09:24 it's probably completely dark at night, though 01:09:31 "Swiss "Super Luminescent" dial that glows for 2-3 hours" 01:09:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:11:38 Ironic if you can't read your starmap at night :P 01:12:33 yeah... screw it :) 01:21:48 GregorR: can you say "ugly"? 01:22:43 bsmntbombdood: Sure. "bsmntbombdood" 01:22:53 hrrr 01:26:07 oh damn 01:26:17 don't touch your dick while there's hot sauce on your fingers 01:26:26 (unless you're in the mood for that sort of thing) 01:36:15 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 01:37:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:37:14 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:45:45 GregorR: With watches, foo movement typically means that the mechanics were designed in foo. 01:45:58 For example, "Swiss movement" means that it's a Swiss watch. 01:46:06 (take with a grain of salt, though) 02:00:39 I was sitting in my friend's room this afternoon, watching him play minesweeper, and I found myself with a tremendous urge to play the game myself. Unfortunately, I didn't have minesweeper on my computer... 02:00:47 ... so I went ahead and wrote it: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/mines/ 02:01:31 this is an example of why being a programmer is awesome 02:03:04 now I'm tempted to implement all the other games Windows 95 came with- jezzball, tetra-vex, tetris, ski-free, chip's challenge, rodent's revenge... 02:04:04 The question is, are you any good at Minesweeper? 02:04:13 fairly good 02:04:29 better than shadowarts. :) 02:06:38 Time? 02:06:50 I didn't add that feature 02:07:36 XD 02:09:14 I have more fun with really dense minefields than with speedruns 02:14:42 I should create a reality -TV show in which the survival of the contestants relies on their ability to play minesweeper 02:18:43 i'd watch it not 02:20:06 maybe the audience would get to vote on the placement of some of the mines 02:27:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:28:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:38:50 Why does Darcs have to be in Haskell? 02:39:07 it's happy there 02:39:12 For maximum obnoxiousity :) 02:39:16 Checking out Plof? :P 02:39:45 I get the feeling that it's been an OS install since I've messed with Plof. 02:41:25 GHC takes forever to build. 02:54:16 Hahaha 02:54:40 {urpmi,apt-get install,yum install,yourfavoritepackagemanager install} darcs 03:02:29 emerge -av darcs 03:02:42 And so, we return to GHC taking forever to build. 03:04:35 bah 03:04:37 i should do something 03:06:13 -!- importantshock has joined. 03:26:59 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 05:16:02 -!- staplegun_ has joined. 05:21:40 hihi 05:21:49 hello 05:35:58 -!- staplegun_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 06:06:30 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:08:15 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 06:16:04 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:18:00 http://pastebin.com/m5bd0d3f4 06:18:08 What the *fuck* was I thinking back then? 06:19:41 what where they thinking with that color scheme? 06:20:32 Good question. 06:31:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:51:19 "i'd be scared too if my dick was that small" 06:51:21 ^^ spam 07:17:21 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 07:28:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:46:45 -!- RedDak has joined. 09:02:43 minesweeper sucks in that there's always at least one fifty-fifty decision, where you simply cannot know where the mines are 09:08:21 played one expert just now, had to do 2 50-50 decision 09:08:23 *S 09:08:54 hmm... 296 :< 09:09:03 my skillz are dead 09:43:11 RodgerTheGreat: i love it how you can check where the mines are if you're not sure ;) 10:37:30 -!- EgoBot has joined. 10:37:39 -!- GregorR has joined. 10:57:04 -!- jix has joined. 11:13:42 You know what's lame about writing signature programs in C? Needing #include lines for standard library headers. 11:27:02 -!- Fa1r has left (?). 11:32:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:57:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:21:14 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:53:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:56:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:01:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:11:33 I've definitely got past the point of diminishing returns on ehird`'s signature challenge. As noted before, the #include lines really screw it up. http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/siersig.c 13:11:51 damn 13:11:53 that's impressive 13:12:36 Thanks. 13:12:41 :-) 13:12:51 * ehird` goes and checks logs to see if anyone else submitted... i doubt it 13:12:59 you probably win by default :-) 13:13:50 i think includes aren't counted, pikhq's quicksort didn't have any and it used lib functions :-) 13:14:36 Warning...make sure line 6 contains three characters of value 128. I've found that this program can be damaged by copying and pasting it. 13:14:46 i wget'd it and it works 13:14:47 :-) 13:14:53 Great :) 13:15:14 hehe, 20000 iterations... chaos game isn't a very efficient algorithm, is it? :-) 13:15:27 Nope. 13:15:53 (Didn't do a real test...but 9<<9 is not enough) :) 13:18:48 ircbrose.com is down? :S 13:19:30 browse 13:22:29 * ehird` tries tunes.org 13:23:05 03:13:42 You know what's lame about writing signature programs in C? Needing #include lines for standard library headers. 13:23:16 no C sig program i've seen has them, so :-) 13:27:32 anyway you win by default, haha 13:27:39 you'd probably win anyway, though 13:27:50 subtracting a string from a pointer? crazy 13:28:41 I didn't do that :) 13:28:49 ok well whatever you did ;) 13:49:36 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:50:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:52:38 -!- ehird` has left (?). 13:52:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:30:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner"). 15:08:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:12:35 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:26:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 15:33:09 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:49:03 -!- puzzlet has quit ("leaving"). 15:56:15 ttm: If you don't include the header, then the prototype defaults to int foo(int,...); Also, C functions don't care *too* much about the right type getting passed. 15:56:46 crazy program, though, i still say 15:56:46 :-) 15:57:06 Besides which, putchar, srand, rand, and time all, in effect, take ints, anyways. 15:57:21 Otherwise, that's a fairly nice piece of work. 15:57:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:57:48 Wait. . . We've got cristofd in here? w00ts! 15:58:08 ttm = cristofd 15:58:08 :P 15:58:22 (I didn't know that until this morning, though, I must mention, when I saw the URL :P) 15:58:22 So I gathered. 16:17:07 -!- jamesstanley has joined. 16:17:30 -!- Lyucit has joined. 16:17:50 um 16:17:53 -!- Lyucit has left (?). 16:22:53 -!- Lyucit has joined. 16:22:57 -!- Lyucit has left (?). 16:23:12 bye 16:24:12 next os i install i'm going to compile it all 16:24:12 no distro 16:24:13 bye 16:24:17 whoops 16:24:18 wrong channel 16:24:21 -!- jamesstanley has left (?). 16:27:41 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:27:51 -!- jix has joined. 16:40:51 -!- bartw has joined. 16:43:32 heh. 17:03:14 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:08:59 http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ 17:09:17 LFS is retarded =) 17:09:47 because, rule 1. you're not competetent enough to update it, keep it secure, and working all by yourself, rule 2. see rule 1 17:11:40 it is not retarded 17:11:40 no, UR RETARDED 17:11:40 -!- bartw has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:12:16 * ehird` rolls eyes 17:14:15 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 17:21:37 HOLY SHIT 17:21:38 NOTE TO SELF 17:21:51 when in msys do not type rm -rf c:/Program\ Files then hit enter instead of tab 17:24:31 in case anyone was stumped by the "find the differences" from a while back, here's the solution: http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1193502210-diffsol.png 17:24:50 i thought they were identical? 17:25:40 did you actually click the link? 17:25:50 no :P 17:26:08 anyway i don't have the link to the differences themselves so what's the point 17:26:16 then you're missing the ENTIRE joke 17:26:21 possibly! 17:27:24 but i can't remember the differences image, so 17:27:27 -!- Worldo has joined. 17:34:38 -!- Worldo has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )"). 17:51:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:51:55 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:15:02 RodgerTheGreat: can you link the ftd from last week? 18:27:35 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1192513276-diff2.png 18:29:07 oh, now i get it 18:29:07 hah 18:29:25 well.. it's not really that funny 18:29:47 but i get it 18:30:11 i may have gotten it too. 18:30:45 oklopol: the images are 100% identical, but the solution has an image with many differences 18:30:56 i realized that 18:31:01 that's the joke 18:32:41 wow, gtk isn't as shitty as i thought 18:48:44 sure afunny joke 19:06:26 if kazakstan is anything like what it is in borat, why don't i live there 19:42:48 i still can't comprehend ttm's sierpinski program :-) 19:42:50 it's an enigma! 19:45:27 Yeah? 19:45:49 What part? 19:46:04 i think maybe i'm approaching my reading of it from the wrong direction 19:46:05 :-) 19:46:13 :) 19:46:50 hmm you could shave a few bytes off by removing unneccessary ;s :P 19:46:58 e.g. ;} -> }, ;) -> ) 19:49:19 Not legal C. 19:49:39 i know that ;) -> ) is 19:49:43 for (x;y;z) is perfectly valid 19:49:50 i might be wrong about {ab} but i think i'm right 19:50:33 Most of those in the program are "for(x;y;)" which is valid, but "for(x;y)" is not. 19:50:46 ahhh, i see 19:52:13 And in C, ; is a terminator not a separator. I'm actually trying not to rely on GCC-specific quirks--besides, GCC won't even allow these. 19:52:34 If it were Javascript I would have taken them out :) 19:53:32 I did shorten it a bit more though. 20:01:39 oklopol: it's not 20:01:58 bsmntbom1dood: [everybody gasps] 20:04:00 bsmntbom1dood: i know 20:04:18 hmm 20:04:26 what ehird` said. 20:05:10 still haven't gotten sdl to work :D 20:05:11 Okay. Breaking the lines in less intuitive places now. 20:05:20 ttm: oh no 20:05:30 Relax, most of it's still in the same order. 20:05:32 :) 20:05:35 ;) 20:05:50 tried dev-cpp, it gives a few linker errors, i've found multiple sources that tell how it's fixed, but nothing helps :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 20:05:58 perhaps some day 20:06:02 It's now four lines even with the stdlib which we NEED for the value of RAND_MAX. 20:06:11 If we want this puppy vaguely portable. 20:06:23 oklopol: why don't you just install mingw? it has an installer :P 20:06:32 i have mingw 20:06:34 and you have no confusing cygwin package manager, you just compile the software your self 20:06:35 oh 20:06:38 dev-cpp just uses mingw 20:06:39 you see 20:06:41 anyway 20:06:41 I'm also hesitating to replace the character constants with their ASCII values, again for portability. 20:06:44 err yeah 20:06:49 when i said mingw i meant mingw+msys 20:06:49 and i want an ide 20:06:54 yeah 20:06:58 but dev-cpp is kinda monolithic 20:07:06 is there a better one? 20:07:11 ttm: name one platform used today that isn't ascii and could compile that code? :p 20:07:23 oklopol: yeah! EDItilla! but that's my editor, that isn't done yet. damn. 20:07:29 oklopol: but when it is done, it will be awesome! 20:07:43 What's "today"? It should compile and run correctly almost anywhere ANSI C is accepted. 20:07:47 i'm not sure what you mean by monolithic, but the only problem with dev-cpp is i can't get sdl to compile. 20:07:55 ttm: :-P 20:10:39 Of course, if the C code itself were translated to another character set, you'd have to reset three characters to whatever is 128 in that set. 20:11:00 well then 20:11:01 :P 20:19:11 ehird`: i couldn't get gcc to compile c++, even though the man said it will automatically compile .cpp files as c++ 20:19:21 what might the reason for this be? 20:20:31 because you need to link it 20:20:33 use g++ instead 20:21:19 hmm i see 20:21:23 g++? 20:21:28 instead of "gcc" 20:21:29 use "g++" 20:21:32 it's part of gcc 20:21:36 it compiles c++ programs 20:21:40 ALTERNATIVELY 20:21:42 don't use c++ 20:22:44 cool, it worked 20:23:24 hmm... so... i should try installing sdl to what next? 20:23:29 mingw? 20:23:40 i already have it on dev-cpp, isn't that the same thing? :) 20:23:54 i guess 20:23:57 :| 20:24:34 dev-cpp won't link it... should i try mingw without it? 20:24:49 i don't get how this can be so hard 20:25:03 because you're doing it wrong. 20:25:17 1. don't compile sdl yourself on windows 20:25:17 2. see 1 20:25:17 3. don't compile it with an ide 20:25:22 if it's easy, it can't be done wrong 20:25:27 yes it can 20:25:41 err... i'm not compiling the actual sdl, i'm trying to compile a program that includes sdl 20:26:26 do you have sdl installed and it in your linker settings 20:26:30 yeah 20:26:34 what is the error 20:27:20 undefined reference to '__cpu_features_init' 20:27:31 you fucked up your sdl compile 20:27:32 undefined reference to 'SDL_strlcopy' 20:28:02 i just put the sdl files in the folder they belong to 20:28:08 you did it wrong 20:28:15 perhaps 20:30:16 http://gpwiki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7037&sid=696456490c4f83d2627d03be5ad924c7 i followed the explanation here 20:32:02 C:\Dev-cpp\bin ... SDL.dll 20:32:02 C:\Dev-cpp\include\SDL ... allSDL.H files 20:32:02 C:\Dev-cpp\lib ... lib SDL.la ... libSDL.dll.a ... libSDLmain.a 20:32:03 from there 20:32:05 check those files are there 20:32:12 i did 20:32:55 i did exactly what hugh says there 20:33:09 then ask somewhere where people know 20:33:10 also regarding what he says later 20:33:10 like, you know, #sdl 20:33:23 i guess i should 20:33:37 i've already given up hope, just bothering you for fun i guess. 20:33:41 but i'll try 21:55:24 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:08:07 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 22:10:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:29:08 pikhq: building ghc from source is not recommended unless you are modifying it 22:29:18 oerjan: pff 22:29:22 oerjan: i build ghc from source 22:29:44 a build I compiled myself will always taste sweeter than a third-party binary :-) 22:29:52 i'm talking about the speed (btw i don't have ghc myself) 22:31:18 hm 22:31:21 speed for what 22:31:26 compilign it or ghc performance itself? 22:31:41 if latter, i'm pretty sure optimization is on by default ;) 22:31:46 compiling it, i take 22:31:48 if former, pff, i can wait an hour every now and then 22:31:54 ok - a few hours 22:31:55 but still 22:31:57 :P 22:34:45 oerjan: You can't beat sense into Gentoo'rs. 22:34:52 oerjan: It just can't be done. 22:35:04 heh 22:35:13 gentoo is crazy 22:35:19 i admit that 22:36:35 i understand that even Gentoo needs a ghc binary to start the process 22:36:49 since ghc is written in haskell 22:37:37 i've always wondered about that... what would happen if everyone who hosted a binary of ghc suddenly died? 22:37:46 you'd have to manually port ghc to some other language and compile ghc with it 22:37:58 not a very secure roadmap :-) 22:38:14 what would happen if everyone who hosted a binary of gcc died? 22:38:34 can't gcc compile itself with another compiler as a bootstrap? 22:38:49 doesn't it use #ifdef __GNUC__ for the gcc-only bits? 22:41:53 Can't other Haskells run/compile GHC? 22:42:02 no 22:42:05 it uses ghc extensions 22:42:13 Well, never mind then :P 22:42:14 (hilarious, isn't it?) 22:42:24 hehehehe 22:42:26 that's funny 22:42:33 i think i might go and write a compiler by banging on my keyboard repeatedly 22:42:48 when someone claims it could never compile anything, i'll ask them if they'd compiled it with itself first 22:43:16 for anyone asking information about the language, i'd tell them that the implementation is the spec 22:43:29 you would also be ignored 22:43:35 ;) 22:44:02 unless you were rms, in which case thousands of greasy nerds around the world would hack nonstop untill they made it work 22:44:13 and then they would praise you for your genius work 22:44:39 "first we deleted all of it, then we added a text editor" 22:46:47 linus once said that if you went over 4 levels of indentation, your code is broken and we should fix it... who's gonna write the program to analyze how many times it happens and where in C code and run it on the kernel? 22:49:22 oh it happens a lot 22:49:32 was it linus who said that? 22:49:41 yeah, in his coding guidelines for... the linux kernel 22:49:56 *clap* *clap* *clap* 22:52:16 Coding guidelines are just that: guidelines. That just means that if you're that deeply indented, you ought to think about whether that's appropriate or if you should refactor. 22:52:28 well said 22:52:39 his literal quote was 22:52:46 "your code is broken and you should fix it" 22:52:49 that's more of a commandment ;) 22:53:24 oerjan: It's Gentoo building GHC, not me. ;) 22:53:31 hm 22:53:33 it's actually 3 levels 22:53:35 "The answer to that is that if you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed anyway, and should fix your program. " 22:53:37 WTF? In the power outage I had list night, my Gaim lost its profile??? 22:53:52 source http://pantransit.reptiles.org/prog/CodingStyle.html 22:54:09 3 levels isn't much 22:54:24 indeed, but i have found those guidelines to be very good for c 22:54:44 "First off, I'd suggest printing out a copy of the GNU coding standards, and not read it. Burn them, it's a great symbolic gesture." is the only thing i follow /religiously/ though :-) 22:54:52 ehird`: IIRC, ghc includes a small Haskell compiler in C, which bootstraps GHC itself. . . 22:54:58 pikhq: no, it doesn't 22:55:00 void gnuguidelines() 22:55:01 { 22:55:04 return THEYROCK; 22:55:05 } 22:55:08 its compilation process downloads a bootstrap 22:55:12 GregorR: die 22:55:26 I've just always thought the half-indentation is amusing :P 22:55:37 so THEYROCK is satirical? 22:55:38 good 22:55:40 you are saved 22:55:53 func (args); has to be the most braindead thing ever 22:55:57 you can almost hear rms going 22:56:11 "i wish i used one of those lisp machine thingymagics instead of this you-nix, i liked those parens" 22:56:52 "Thingymagics" sounds hawt. 22:57:00 haha 23:00:13 GregorR: Not quite. 23:00:15 void 23:00:19 gnuguidelines () 23:00:20 { 23:00:23 *snaps* 23:00:24 return THEYROCK; 23:00:24 } 23:00:38 You didn't do the spacing right - the braces are supposed to be half-indented. 23:00:58 Not when defining a function. 23:01:06 pikhq is right 23:04:06 i haaate scripting languages 23:04:07 OK, so I don't know the GNU coding conventions :P 23:04:18 they are all terrible 23:04:28 python is slow, lua's "end"s are ugly (but it is very fast, more so with luajit)... 23:04:47 perl is slow, unmaintainable and ugly, and yeck (this will change in perl 6, though) 23:05:01 * GregorR <3 Plof :( 23:05:16 plof doesn't really look usable for day to day stuff to me 23:05:18 just saying 23:05:24 It certainly isn't yet :P 23:05:36 it's just a bit too foreign imho 23:05:44 although it is interesting 23:05:48 I might contribute a C interpreter :-) 23:06:01 Well, don't do it now :P 23:06:06 (since D can be pretty slow, etc., and language implementation can be quite low level) 23:06:06 Plof3 is entirely different from Plof2. 23:06:16 you still have not shown me any example Plof3 code 23:06:35 Any example of Plof2 code is also an example of Plof3 code at the moment (I haven't worked on the user language yet) 23:06:38 It's the guts that are different. 23:07:16 how functional is plof? 23:07:24 haskell functional not usable functional 23:07:32 GregorR: I could in either GNU coding standards or K&R standards. . . 23:07:46 pikhq: you use the gnu standards? D: 23:07:50 pikhq: you shall be killed 23:07:57 ehird`: Well, it's certainly not pure :P. Functions are first-class and closures etc are possible, but it's definitely an imperative language. 23:07:59 i hate your code and wish for its demise 23:08:17 GregorR: show me a factorial with "reduce" 23:08:58 GregorR: Have we *done* reduce? 23:09:18 I don't really have an implementation of it, no, but it's certainly implementable. 23:09:31 no reduce/map by default? 23:09:33 next! ;) 23:09:50 There's barely a standard library at all. 23:09:57 I'm a language designer, not a standard library designer. 23:10:15 bah, ok, show me a recursive factorial i guess :| 23:11:00 fact = (x):{ if(:{x == 1}, {x}, {x * fact(x-1)}) }; 23:11:12 is that plof? 23:11:16 Yuh 23:11:17 ok, so you have to use the lambda to define a function 23:11:24 Yup. 23:11:27 that's not ideal IMO, even a little syntactic sugar would be nice 23:11:29 just imo 23:11:34 my suggestion: 23:11:38 fact(x) = { ... }; 23:11:48 Blech. 23:11:49 X(Y) = { ... } -> X = (Y):{ ... } 23:11:53 it's a tiny transformation 23:11:58 and a lot nicer loooking imo 23:12:07 also, it still makes "sense" - you're telling it what X(Y) means 23:12:09 But how do you differentiate between thick and thin functions? 23:12:14 what 23:12:22 (x){ ... } != (x):{ ... }; 23:12:25 * GregorR intends to fix thick and thin functions at some point :P 23:12:29 what's the difference, pikhq 23:12:31 * pikhq would hope so 23:12:57 ehird`: Return semantics. Thin functions return from their associated thick function. It allows all blocks to be functions. It is a feature that will go away :P 23:13:13 It's like methods-vs-blocks in Smalltalk. 23:13:14 It's how "if" and such are implemented ATM. 23:13:18 i do not understand 23:13:43 if(:{x}, {return x}); 23:14:03 ehird`: If is a function, you pass it three functions. But, if one of the functions you pass it returns, then the function calling if returns. That makes imperative programming more comfortable, since it does what an imperative programmer expects. 23:14:37 GregorR: yes, i gathered that if was a function. and i get it now 23:14:38 hmm 23:14:42 The {return x} function returns x *through* the if, and through the stack, until it returns from a thick function. . . 23:14:42 that sounds like a VERY ugly hack :-) 23:14:47 It is, indeed. 23:14:56 ehird`: It is. I painted myself into a corner. It will not be around by the time Plof3 is finalized. 23:14:59 It works, but *man* it's ugly. 23:15:11 how is it implemented? please tell me instead of just overriding return, you set the thin function's closure to the enclosing thick one's 23:15:18 so how do you resolve it anyway in plof3? 23:16:02 ehird`: It's just an implementation detail of how 'return' is implemented - it pops up the call stack until it finds a thick function. 23:16:18 Anyway, please, ignore thick-vs-thin, IT'S GOING AWAY 23:16:19 :P 23:16:42 Yes but how do you resolve the issue? ;) 23:16:47 OH 23:16:53 I don't have a resolution yet. 23:17:01 My point is I won't be satisfied until I do ^^ 23:17:04 hah 23:17:20 i'm not sure what my perfect language would be 23:17:25 it'd probably include runtime-editable syntax 23:17:36 So far, so Plof3 :P 23:18:08 that is, it'll have a syntax for defining - using the language itself with some sugar for the definitions - new syntax, which can do arbitary transformations - replace code with some other code, execute code at expand-time, etc 23:18:09 also 23:18:14 an ability to modify previous syntax 23:18:15 all of it. 23:18:27 If you hate yourself, you could implement longjmp, Gregor. :p 23:18:40 in this way, the "if" syntax would just be sugar for calling if_ (or similar) 23:19:16 ehird`: FYI, you're still defining Plof3. 23:19:21 hah 23:19:28 ehird`: Plof3 is a small stack-language with a runtime parser sitting on top of it. 23:19:36 can plof3 handle INDENTATION-BASED SYNTAX? 23:19:45 because it sends spaces at the beginning of lines as INDENT tokens?! 23:19:55 (and of course DEDENT tokens) 23:20:06 I believe it could. 23:20:10 Tokenization is also defined at runtime. 23:20:18 (python does this too, so basically all you need to do is change "{" to INDENT and "}" to DEDENT) 23:20:33 Plof3's normal user language would just ignore all whitespace, but you can define one that doesn't. 23:20:53 ok well as i can see it you have two seperate languages 23:21:01 stack-based-metalanguage and Plof3 23:21:05 Basically. 23:21:18 when you say Plof3 you really mean the latter because Plof3 is really entirely defined as that, since the other language is basically unrelateds 23:21:24 so these aren't plof3 features 23:21:33 GregorR: BTW, Plof2 *does* have map. 23:21:35 it's like calling brainfuck with a c interface having all the features of C :-) 23:21:56 (random collection).map(); ;) 23:22:16 ehird`: The grammar engine is entirely modifiable within Plof3 code. If you want to change Plof3's grammar, it's all available to you. 23:22:26 meh 23:22:40 * GregorR has no idea what your complaint is *shrugs* 23:23:08 var foo = new(List);foo.map((x){return({x+1});}); 23:23:28 pikhq: I did implement map in my collections? Well, ehird`: there ya go! :P 23:23:41 I'm so focused on Plof3, Plof2 is becoming a distant memory. 23:24:43 "and here in the corner of the channel you have GregorR, who actually constructed a nearly usable language called Plof2 before he went off the deep end with his theories." 23:25:54 i might implement my nice language some time, but without the crazy syntax definitions 23:26:33 i'll make it fast (so you can run reasonably complex programs with it without being much slower than C - for sufficiently large values of "without being much slower") and bind a few libraries to it 23:26:52 the problem with most of my langugae ideas is that they don't work well on a single line 23:26:57 indentation-based blocks, etc 23:27:18 and since one of my goals is to implement a language i find nice, and write an irc bot in it, with daemons programmable in it, that kind of sucks :-) 23:28:50 so heh 23:29:56 in fact 23:30:14 i can't think of any block syntax that works well on one line apart from lisps s-exprsessions :| 23:30:33 you could borrow haskell's layout <-> { ; } equivalence 23:31:21 right but c-style blocks are pretty ugly on one line 23:31:37 although the parse-error rule which allows you to leave out more { } may be a bit too hairy 23:31:49 if (x) { while (y) { a; b; c }; if (z) { 2 + 2 } } elseif (g) { ... } 23:31:53 uglyyyy and not readable on one line 23:31:56 and it certainly doesn't work with redefinable syntax 23:32:06 no redefinable syntax for this i think 23:32:07 :) 23:32:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:13 i guess i could implement if x (y) (z) as an alternate if syntax 23:34:19 but i hate two solutions for one problem in syntax 23:35:25 you could make all parentheses expandable into layout 23:35:35 i don't want to have layout though 23:35:36 :-) 23:36:16 um, layout = indentation-based blocks, in haskell 23:36:47 yes 23:36:52 i want some tangible syntax i think 23:41:54 GregorR: any suggestions, you being the crazy language guy? :P 23:42:55 Make it syntaxless. :p 23:43:00 excuse me? are you trying to insult everyone else in the channel? 23:43:11 oerjan: hahaha, i forgot this was #esoteric 23:43:22 pikhq: i actually have a language called syntaxless :p 23:44:31 is it really syntaxless? 23:44:44 jot is syntaxless 23:44:52 it has one lexical rule but no syntactical rules 23:44:53 so, yes 23:45:05 i don't know what you mean 23:45:11 (the lexical rule is "read any number of characters seperated by spaces, tabs or newlines") 23:45:20 syntactical rules would mean it has syntax like nesting, etc. 23:45:26 mine just has one lexical rule, which isn't really syntax 23:50:46 GregorR: but seriously :-) 23:56:48 pikhq: ok, you were talking about plof too. what about you? :P 2007-10-28: 00:01:58 I suggest you worship before the Shrine to Gregor. 00:11:53 * GregorR 's eyes glow. 00:12:36 * ehird` worships to GregorR with his above question 00:12:53 if you ask pikhq you will just end up with tcl syntax :) 00:13:22 No, I don't have suggestions :P 00:13:24 EVAR 00:13:30 =( 00:13:33 oerjan: heh 00:13:52 * GregorR disappears again. 00:14:16 oerjan: The Tcl syntax for PEBBLE is *ease of implementation*. 00:14:27 s/is/is\ for/ 00:14:32 pikhq: WHat's your perfect PEBBLE syntax? 00:14:33 :P 00:14:38 regardless of ease 00:14:42 for implenntation 00:15:25 I'd probably go for something sexpy. 00:15:41 wooooooo 00:15:59 pikhq: Um, s-exps are basically as easy as Tcl-style to implement 00:16:11 ehird`: Not really. 00:16:14 no, because tcl parses tcl natively 00:16:20 My parser: [source foo.tcl] 00:16:25 ;) 00:16:41 wait, pebble actually parses through tcl? 00:16:44 euuuurgh 00:17:04 PEBBLE is 100% well-formed Tcl. 00:17:18 :X 00:17:27 ok, what's your perfect, non-hijacking syntax for pebble 00:17:27 :P 00:17:33 i.e. platonic ideal, with no boundries 00:17:43 No boundaries? 00:17:53 depends on what you are about to say... 00:18:27 None; I would make PEBBLE read your mind for each bit of code. :p 00:18:37 syntax that actually involves syntax 00:18:41 in a file, on disk 00:18:43 Tricky. 00:18:55 Probably sexpoid, but I dunno. 00:19:11 A *good* syntax is fairly tricky to devise. 00:19:19 sexpoid = plain sexps or something more 00:20:42 -!- oerjan has quit ("Be completed cripes"). 00:22:10 pikhq: ? 00:22:20 Yes. 00:22:26 whihc 00:22:29 which 00:22:31 Yes. 00:22:39 plain sexps? 00:22:42 hrr hrr not funny 00:23:00 bsmntbom1dood: yeah, X or Y doesn't return a boolean indiscriminately in ANY reasonable language 00:23:02 (plain sexp || something more) == 1 00:23:05 it returns either X or Y 00:23:11 nuh-huh, pikhq 00:23:18 english isn't reasonable 00:23:25 (plain sexp || something more) == plain sexp IF plain sexp ELSE something more 00:23:33 C does that, for one 00:23:37 also every other reasonable language ever 00:25:04 Abuh? 00:25:43 pikhq: Abuh what 00:25:49 abu graib 00:26:14 (plain sexp || something more) returns either 1 or 0. I declare that it is 1. 00:26:20 no 00:26:21 you are wrong 00:26:26 bsmntbom1dood: back me up here ;) 00:26:27 it's not C 00:26:29 it's english 00:26:31 right 00:26:38 but in english it commonly means the same thing 00:26:44 and programming languages - here implied by || - agree with me 00:26:50 and in english, "plain sexp or something else" isn't boolean 00:26:55 exactly 00:27:11 it doesn't matter what esr told you 00:27:32 if it has esr in it - it doesn't matter, full stop 00:27:33 :-) 00:28:05 Anyways, you meant either plain sexp or something else. . . And I'm not sure which one yet. 00:28:37 i don't know much about pebble 00:28:53 give me a quick overview of the core commands and semantics will you? i'd like to dabble in it sometime 00:29:33 @ var ?location? 00:30:00 that's... not helpful 00:30:01 Declare a variable. . . If you specifiy a location, that's where it will be in Brainfuck memory. 00:30:01 :-) 00:30:07 ?? means optional right? 00:30:10 Yeah. 00:30:14 OK 00:30:37 * pikhq groans a bit at the next. . . Why the hell isn't this + and -? 00:30:42 add var number 00:30:46 subtract var number 00:31:09 Add or subtract, from var, number. 00:31:18 while var {code} 00:31:30 wait! stop! {...} is string right 00:31:41 Basically. 00:32:01 ok 00:32:02 in var 00:32:04 out var 00:32:07 wait wait 00:32:11 explain while's semantics 00:32:20 while(var!=0){code} 00:32:42 i mean in brainfuck :-) 00:32:52 goto var[code goto var] 00:33:11 ok 00:33:40 right number: just ">" number amount of times. . . 00:33:43 left number: same. 00:33:54 whats in/out var 00:34:00 at var: tell the compiler that the current location is var. 00:34:06 in var: , 00:34:08 out var: . 00:34:17 OK 00:34:37 set var number: set var to number. 00:35:02 macro name {input-args} {output-args} {temp-args} {code} 00:35:18 That'll be called as "name input-args > output-args : temp-args". 00:35:27 WOW okay this needs more explanation (macro) 00:36:10 Hmm. 00:36:29 Let's do set as a macro for demonstration. 00:37:03 macro set {var num} {} {} { 00:37:12 while var {subtract var 1} 00:37:17 add var num 00:37:18 } 00:37:26 that's a bad way to do set, but hehe 00:37:26 ok 00:37:32 so, how is that stored/called 00:37:54 You'd just call *that* as "set foo bar". 00:38:04 right 00:38:06 i mean internally 00:38:09 what would set foo bar compile to 00:38:28 Let's say you've got a variable foo at location 5. . . 00:38:52 "set foo 5" would compile to the following (assuming we're at location 0): 00:38:59 >>>>>[-]+++++ 00:39:03 ah, ok 00:39:11 what do output-args and temp-args do??? 00:39:24 Allow for syntactic sugar in some of the more complex macros. 00:39:30 explain 00:39:46 "addvar foo > bar : temp1" is a bit simpler to read than "addvar foo bar temp1". 00:40:01 but what does it do 00:40:20 Those are just more arguments. . . 00:40:48 ah 00:40:55 so output-args and temp-args are just normal args 00:41:02 and the > and : just seperate them 00:41:04 Yeah. 00:41:15 addvar foo > bar : temp1 "add foo to bar using temp1 as the tmp var" 00:41:23 *Exactly*. 00:41:41 wow 00:41:43 i'm 1337 00:41:44 :) 00:42:08 There's a bit more to the language than that, but that's the core of it. 00:42:16 bit more = ? 00:42:26 i'm pretty sure i've seen functions in pebble too 00:42:29 not just mcaros 00:42:30 Nope. 00:42:32 Only macros. 00:43:03 OK 00:43:29 macros cannot recurse correct 00:43:45 There's the source command, a couple of commands to make dealing with strings easier, some stuff to talk to the optimizing pass, and a *bunch* of stuff not needed unless you're trying to fiddle with the stdlib. . . 00:43:49 Correct. 00:44:26 is there native multiplication? 00:44:32 It's a macro in the stdlib. 00:45:36 OK 00:45:39 what is its syntac? 00:45:41 *syntax 00:45:53 mulvar a > b : temp1 temp2 00:46:19 it goes to b right? 00:46:27 Right. 00:49:35 http://pastebin.com/m10e58490 factorial 00:49:46 i should probably have res as an output argument 00:49:49 but, it's a minor change 00:49:57 fact a b == "b = a!" 00:50:16 is that right? 00:50:19 (vars default to 0 iirc) 00:50:21 err 00:50:23 i don't even need tmp 00:50:38 rm @ tmp, s/2,3/1,2 00:51:24 pikhq: is that right? 00:52:29 pikhq: i think it is, but im not sure 00:53:01 Lemme look. 00:53:14 ignore tmp :-) it's useless 00:53:28 and s/while tmp/while n 00:53:42 pikhq: http://pastebin.com/m8734736 updated 00:53:54 It'll work. 00:53:57 TODAY AND THE NOW IS SUPER DANCE EXPLOSION TIME 00:54:03 I'd take the temp variables as arguments, though. 00:54:05 ah 00:54:09 i just did that 00:54:09 haha 00:54:13 final version: http://pastebin.com/m8d6c22f 00:54:24 fact a > b : tmp1 tmp2 is "b = a!" 00:54:33 is that all right? :-) 00:54:42 Yup. 00:54:48 Hmm. Why set res 1? 00:54:53 . . . Never mind. 00:54:55 I'm stupid. 00:54:57 because 0 * n = 0 00:54:57 :P 00:55:05 That's exactly right. 00:55:25 OK 00:55:27 great 00:55:39 I'll code more PEBBLE tomorrow :-) 00:55:42 :) 00:55:53 hey, i mgiht write an EsoAPI (or similar) interface for it 00:55:56 bot written in pebble! 00:56:25 I planned the same for a while. 00:56:33 Right now, I'm waiting on PSOX. ;p 00:56:55 i don't like waiting :P 00:56:59 PSOX is overengineered anyway 00:57:12 (if Sgeo now says "Wait, what?" instead of ACTUALLY READING, please kill him for me) 00:57:17 byebye for today, see you tomorrow 00:59:11 I wonder if anybody makes a battery-powered USB device charger. 01:00:06 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:03:16 It's called a laptop. 01:10:32 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:10:44 all those power-through-usb devices are dumb 01:11:09 And a violation of the USB spec besides. 01:11:59 why have power if that's the case? 01:12:57 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:16:26 The USB spec grants every device a *very small* amount of power, so that it can at least negotiate power needs. . . 01:16:57 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 01:16:58 Most power-through-usb devices don't negotiate this; they merely go and take power from USB. 01:17:18 The worst part is, they usually try to take more power than the USB spec even *allows* any one device to have. 01:24:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:31:30 -!- Arrogant has joined. 01:33:43 -!- Arrogant has quit (Client Quit). 01:33:54 -!- Arrogant has joined. 01:55:38 Oh my GOD, people NOT COMPLYING TO A STANDARD? It's almost like we're in some filthy HUMAN society! 01:55:57 GregorR: It's just in bad taste. 01:56:48 If my video watch didn't charge from USB, that would be one more port on it. That's hard to swing. 01:57:46 -!- calamari has joined. 02:07:45 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 02:19:38 * bsmntbombdood lights his hand on fire 02:20:18 GregorR: Or it'd negotiate the power as needed by the USB spec. 02:20:38 (as well as a nice data channel) 02:20:40 ;) 02:21:51 For all I know, it does :P 02:22:02 And it does have a nice data channel. 02:22:08 For, y'know, transferring files. 02:35:56 did you get your watch? 02:49:21 * pikhq whistles innocently here, too 03:01:24 * Sgeo_ wonders if anyone uses BF-RLE 03:05:33 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:10:43 -!- sp3tt has joined. 03:19:53 Welcome back sp3tt 03:23:50 -!- sebbu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:23:50 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:23:51 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:23:51 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:23:51 -!- Nucleo has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:23:55 -!- GregorR has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:23:55 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:24:27 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:24:34 -!- GregorR has joined. 03:24:34 -!- Overand has joined. 03:33:40 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:36:02 -!- sp3tt has joined. 03:37:00 -!- pikhq has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:37:00 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:37:58 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:38:23 -!- SimonRC has joined. 03:41:33 -!- sp3tt has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:53:33 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- calamari has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- ololobot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- ttm has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- GregorR has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:33 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 03:53:33 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 03:53:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 03:53:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:53:33 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:53:33 -!- ololobot has joined. 03:53:33 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 03:53:33 -!- ttm has joined. 03:53:33 -!- sekhmet has joined. 03:53:33 -!- zuzu has joined. 03:53:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 03:53:33 -!- GregorR has joined. 03:53:33 -!- Overand has joined. 03:53:33 -!- lament has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)). 03:53:33 -!- lament has joined. 03:53:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:53:33 -!- cmeme has joined. 03:53:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:53:34 -!- EgoBot has joined. 03:53:34 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:53:34 -!- Nucleo has joined. 03:53:34 -!- helios24 has joined. 03:53:34 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Success). 03:54:25 -!- sp3tt has joined. 04:17:01 -!- SimonRC has quit (Connection timed out). 04:59:22 -!- ihope has joined. 05:06:27 ais523's won a Wolfram research prize? 05:08:03 Yeah. 05:08:15 Not the 2,3 Turing machine thing? 05:12:55 Or yes? 05:16:50 Yes. 05:17:06 Wow. 05:17:35 Well, it's not like we have stupid people in here. 05:23:17 True. 05:24:50 * ihope skims the proof 05:32:02 * bsmntbom1dood skimmed the proof and quit after the first few words 05:32:47 What proof? 05:33:07 the 2,3 turing machine completeness proof 05:35:03 What's it about, and where can I find it? 05:36:45 http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solution_news.html 05:36:58 wolfram proposed a 2,3 turing machine and offered $25k for a proof of (un)/completeness 05:38:47 it would be cool to have a proof that it's the simplest utm 05:38:56 Haven't all the simpler ones been tried? 05:39:19 it might be there's another 2,3 one 05:39:31 Oh, indeed. 05:42:22 it's funny how people think that the machine is applicable 05:42:44 "it could be implemented in a molecule", yeah, that's useful 05:43:07 Seems a cellular automaton would be more useful for that. 05:43:24 And we have plenty of simple cellular automata. 05:43:35 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:48:39 -!- cherez has joined. 05:48:55 It be cheese! 05:49:09 Yar! 05:50:18 Hi, cheese! 05:50:45 And here's that USAMO one of my classmates took: http://www.mathlinks.ro/Forum/resources.php?c=182&cid=27&year=2007 05:51:10 Or maybe it's just similar to it. 05:51:59 No, that's probably the one. Seems that you should be able to make a primitive dinosaur of any size. 05:53:06 ihope: Obviously, a primitive dinosaur is 2007*2-1. . . 05:54:14 You can have bigger primitive dinosaurs. 05:54:39 Wait, at least 2007 cells... 05:54:40 Show me one larger dinosaur that is primitive. 05:54:47 Oh. 05:54:50 At least 2007 cells? 05:54:53 Misread that. 05:55:06 I thought it was "dinosaur has 2007 cells". 05:55:52 Anyways, yeah. Anything larger than 2007*2-1 is not primitive. 05:56:13 Start with one square, then attach to each side a line of length 2006. 05:56:49 You get a big cross with 2007*4 - 3 squares. 05:57:03 Divide that into dinosaurs for me. 05:57:11 Clever. 05:57:18 And that question is deceptively subtle. 05:57:31 This is why I'm not in the math olympiad. 05:58:25 The question is how to make that bigger. 05:58:38 Or whether that's even possible. 06:00:10 * pikhq salutes whoever can prove that 06:00:21 I'm pretty sure 2007*4 - 3 is the best, now. 06:01:37 Suppose S is a dinosaur. S is primitive if and only if for all subdinosaurs of S, S minus that subdinosaur contains something that is not a dinosaur. 06:03:34 Suppose T is a subdinosaur of S. If the union of T with all non-dinosaur fragments of S-T is a proper subdinosaur of S, then S is not primitive. 06:04:57 esoteric programming, not esoteric paleantology... 06:07:14 :-P 06:07:52 Conjecture: all non-primitive dinosaurs can be divided into dinosaurs containing no loops. 06:08:03 This should be easy to disprove, unfortunately. 06:09:37 And if it can be proven, it's probably quite hard. 06:13:23 Suppose T is a subdinosaur of S. If S is primitive, then no superdinosaur of the union of T with all non-dinosaur fragments of S - T is a proper subdinosaur of S. 06:14:34 No, I want to go the other way. If for all subdinosaurs T of S, no superdinosaur of the union of T with all non-dinosaur fragments of S - T is a proper subdinosaur of S, then S is primitive. 06:16:05 Maybe the problem IS going the other way. 06:16:48 ...which is the first way. 06:18:18 Now I'm too tired to understand what I've written, so I'll be going to bed immediately. 06:18:22 LMAO 06:26:52 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 06:38:43 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:39:20 -!- RedDak has joined. 09:49:47 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:19:20 -!- helios24 has left (?). 10:23:46 -!- helios24 has joined. 10:37:35 -!- helios24_ has joined. 10:48:57 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 10:53:04 -!- helios24_ has quit (Connection timed out). 11:04:05 -!- bartw has joined. 11:07:09 (bsmntbom1dood) and in english, "plain sexp or something else" isn't boolean <<< it's either boolean or either of those 11:08:54 -!- helios24 has joined. 11:11:56 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:22:59 (ihope) Suppose S is a dinosaur. S is primitive if and only if for all subdinosaurs of S, S minus that subdinosaur contains something that is not a dinosaur. <<< er... don't think so, say you have a gazillion cells in a row, if you cut it in the middle, you get two dinosaurs, if you just cut one off one end, you get a dinosaur, and a non-dinosaur 11:39:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:53:12 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:08:37 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 12:20:03 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:36:38 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 12:53:54 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:57:52 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has joined. 13:03:00 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:49:51 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:50:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:20:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("Because of dinner empty"). 14:21:52 -!- ihope has joined. 15:02:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:02:53 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 15:07:46 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:08:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:28:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:31:51 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:43:43 -!- SEO_DUDE82 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:50:07 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 17:52:18 -!- jenny2 has joined. 17:52:42 -!- RedDak has joined. 17:52:52 -!- jenny2 has quit (Client Quit). 18:38:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:43:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:49:07 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:03:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:18:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:18:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 19:25:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:50:56 -!- calamari has joined. 19:53:33 bbl 19:53:36 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 19:53:46 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 19:53:58 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Client Quit). 19:56:23 -!- jix has joined. 20:22:11 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:30:25 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:32:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:51:36 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 23:01:33 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 23:12:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Success). 23:33:19 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 2007-10-29: 00:36:05 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:46:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:46:21 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:25:24 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:30:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:40:43 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 01:48:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:48:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:27:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("It sleeps well,"). 02:54:13 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:01:41 THE ROOF IS ON FIRE 03:03:21 We don't need no water! 03:03:34 LET YOUR MOTHER 03:03:35 Let the motherfucker burn. 03:03:50 hah, mother'd ya! 03:04:02 school in 3 hours! PARTIIIII!! 03:04:06 ... 03:04:13 i'm gonna get me some coffee -> 03:04:41 i used an hour for schoolwork just now, i think this is somewhat of a record. 03:32:46 ha 04:02:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:02:17 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 04:10:25 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 05:03:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:07:04 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:17:30 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:17:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:22:58 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined. 06:29:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:29:56 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 06:56:02 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:56:03 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:01:56 -!- Moistorious has joined. 07:03:06 Please say "Hello, Moistorious" 07:09:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:09:29 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:17:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:18:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:21:40 -!- immibis has joined. 07:33:53 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:33:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:40:38 -!- Moistorious has quit. 07:52:17 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:15:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:36:43 -!- myr has joined. 11:05:37 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 11:17:22 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:12:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:54:32 -!- oerjan has quit ("Logging off"). 13:03:15 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:03:57 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:04:39 -!- myr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:39:33 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:43:48 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:57:34 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:58:16 pikhq: hyou there? 15:03:42 pikhq: i am going to write a PEBBLE compiler in PEBBLE. parsing and all. :-) 15:07:58 pikhq: i'll do ->BF first then ->C, so eventually it'll be completely self-hosting 15:08:38 (most likely bootstrap path: distrobution includes BF version set to compile to C, you run it on the code, which produces a C version, which is the compiler you use (also the compiler used to produce the bf version)) 15:13:48 pikhq: how does eval work? 15:13:52 i mean you are compiling 15:51:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:55:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:55:41 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 16:02:04 hm 16:02:22 i wonder what an average complex brainfuck program has in brackets? 16:02:25 i.e. how many [ and ]s 16:02:38 i'd bet, even LostKingdom, less than 10,000 16:03:20 hey, everyone 16:03:26 hi 16:03:28 err 16:03:32 ITYM "&" 16:03:43 ehird`: I was actually discussing that with pikhq yesterday 16:03:49 sounds like quite a challenge 16:04:09 I'll help how I can 16:04:20 a PEBBLE-in-PEBBLE compiler? 16:04:28 yeah, i think it should be pretty trivial actually looking at pebble's source 16:04:37 but pebble does not have string operations afaik 16:04:40 which kind of, uh, sucks :P 16:05:23 self-hosting compilers ftw 16:05:26 indeed 16:05:40 you could ditch tcl FOREVERRRRRR! :p 16:06:25 Once I finish my own BF metalanguage, I think I'll take a crack at implementing a Sprocket interpreter. :) 16:06:36 :p 16:06:39 [sprocket?] 16:07:30 hm 16:07:45 how many [s and ]s does lostkingdom have? 16:10:08 * ehird` would check ,but is on windows 16:18:34 wow 16:18:37 41,927 16:24:06 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:50:25 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 16:50:38 #@$%!% lousy connections! 16:51:01 $&£*(&£$*&£*($&("*&£(8&(&!)(*)(*£)("£&*"^*&"£^*&"£^98&!(*"&£(*"^£&*"£^"*&£^"*£&"£ERROR <-- lousy connection 16:51:44 anyway, sprocket is a pseudo-forthlike I designed 16:51:54 does it compile like forth does 16:52:02 no 16:52:12 worthless 16:52:19 forth is only interesting for its compiling semantics :P 16:52:24 so is self-hosting PEBBLE 16:52:38 no pebble is useless 16:52:38 :P 16:52:40 err 16:52:41 USEFUL 16:53:09 Sprocket is interesting because it's an extremely elegant stack-based language supporting clever uses of recursion and polymorphic code 16:53:29 Show Me Example Code(TM) 16:54:39 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:54:40 simple example, but here's a fibonacci sequence generator: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1193673235.html 16:54:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:54:53 i am reminded of Joy 16:54:55 but what is : 16:55:05 assignment 16:55:13 EWW, SYNTAX 16:55:45 ! is invocation, and ' is recall 16:55:49 bbl 16:55:50 Huh? 16:55:58 braces - (), [], {} - are the only acceptable syntax in a stack language ;) 17:09:48 I just wrote the most elaborate brainfuck compiler /ever/ 17:10:09 It doesn't require reading the program into memory, and doesn't use a stack to handle [ and ] - it can handle pretty much infinite 17:10:21 also, it does the basic optimizations like "times" 17:18:00 my interpreter is 122 lines, and i haven't wrote the actual interpreter yet 17:18:00 :P 17:52:17 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:52:19 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:59:50 hmm 17:59:54 it's around 210 lines 17:59:57 not too bad, i guess 18:03:44 -!- jix has joined. 18:43:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:55:56 -!- DawnLight has joined. 18:56:09 are you guys crazy? 18:56:19 -!- johnk_ has joined. 18:56:25 DawnLight: yeah! 18:56:32 we program in silly toy esoteric languages all day 18:56:40 what do you expect? 18:57:09 i'm crazy also 18:57:48 you'll fit right in here 18:57:52 go learn brainfuck 18:59:46 woo, another crazy one 18:59:54 from where do you hail, DawnLight? 19:03:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:04:23 israel 19:05:41 where its always war but not actually 19:05:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:10:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:10:20 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 19:12:47 ice rail 19:13:08 hmm, food? yes -> 19:37:52 -!- DawnLight has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:46:33 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:48:27 -!- DawnLight has joined. 20:04:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:29:24 bah 20:29:28 my interp is breaking randomly 20:29:42 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:29:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:33:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:35:25 what kind of language are you interpretting ? 20:36:24 of bf 20:37:30 i'm interpreting brainfuck 20:38:38 in bf ? 20:38:45 in C 20:38:48 ah 20:38:56 optimizing to hell 20:39:05 -!- |DawnLight| has joined. 20:39:08 hmz, maybe you should try jitting the bf 20:39:08 -!- DawnLight has quit (Connection timed out). 20:39:17 naw, too much work 20:39:24 but i am doing lots of parsing 20:39:26 Do you know who the competition is? 20:39:29 -!- |DawnLight| has quit (SendQ exceeded). 20:39:59 -!- |DawnLight| has joined. 20:39:59 ttm: "who the competition is"? 20:40:18 http://www.swapped.cc/bf/ was the fastest brainfuck interpreter in C last I checked. 20:40:21 -!- |DawnLight| has quit (SendQ exceeded). 20:40:41 -!- |DawnLight| has joined. 20:40:58 egobfc2m beats it by cheating. 20:41:09 ttm: its littered with one-letter vars 20:41:16 i don't feel like reading obfuscated code ;) 20:41:23 anyway mine is probably slow, i guess 20:41:35 but faster than most 20:41:39 egobfc2m compiles the Brainfuck code into memory and calls it as a function, so it's not really an interpreter at all :P 20:41:53 GregorR: impressive... is it open source? 20:41:56 I wasn't suggesting reading it, just using it as a benchmark :) 20:42:04 ehird`: Yeah, it's part of the EgoBF suite. 20:42:10 <-- Ego* 20:42:13 GregorR: is the single file available anywhere? :p 20:42:20 It's in the files archive. 20:42:25 ttm: mine is pretty simple 20:42:50 i have an instruction struct INS, { char id, int times, int line, int pos, INS *next, INS *up, INS *down } 20:43:12 up is the loop body for [ instructions 20:43:17 inside a loop, it's the first instruction of the loop 20:43:25 down is NULL for top-level, one loop level up for everything else 20:43:49 i parse [ and ] by not parsing them at all - i take advantage of those properties and overwriting the current "append here" pointer 20:45:30 i have a very weird bug though 20:45:43 instead of [(up=abc) 20:45:44 i have: 20:45:49 [(up=](up=abc))] 20:45:53 err 20:45:54 [(up=](up=abc)) 20:46:05 so, it works fine... but i have ] straight after [, with a loop body inside it 20:46:06 = WTF 20:46:07 Everyone sees that >>>> and ---- translate as single instructions. But I don't know how many people spotted that [[[[ and ]]]] do as well. 20:46:18 ttm: Hm, you're right. 20:46:26 ttm: [[[[ is just [, isn't it? 20:46:29 and ]]]] is just ] 20:46:56 Yeah. 20:47:00 -!- |DawnLight| has changed nick to DawnLight. 20:47:01 Cool, then i can optimize every instruction apart from , and . 20:47:17 Cool. 20:47:46 technically i could "optimize" , and . with a for loop 20:47:49 but that's just wasteful 20:47:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:49:08 hmm 20:49:17 does anyone know what the average maximum recursion depth is in C 20:50:26 There is no average, it depends entirely on the space complexity of the functions involved. 20:50:41 Very Complex 20:50:41 :P 20:50:50 O(n^n^n)? 20:50:52 I'd say roughly 1. 20:52:04 hehe 20:52:24 it's just this: http://rafb.net/p/toOH6P60.html 20:52:25 is acting weirdly 20:52:32 so i was wondering if i could get away with making it recurse ;) 20:52:34 i won't bother 20:52:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:53:29 but if anyone knows why - from [abc] - instead of [(abc) it's becoming [(](abc)) {where X(Y) means "X, which has up property Y"... i.e. "X with loop body Y"} 20:53:33 then i'd appreciate it ;) 20:53:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:59:14 It's 1 PM, so I should get some sleep. 21:18:41 my bf interp is plotting against me and refusing to work 21:21:49 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:28:25 -!- DawnLight has quit (Connection timed out). 21:35:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:35:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:35:50 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:38:37 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:38:47 -!- jix has joined. 21:48:40 there are no good names for brainfuck interpreters any more :| 21:49:44 ehirdsbrainfuckinterpreterimplementedincforyourenjoyment.c 21:50:06 -o ebfiiicfye 21:51:15 i think not :P 21:51:18 i need a prefix 21:51:19 like your Ego- 21:51:23 to use for everything :P 21:52:31 Id- 21:52:58 i am not a psychologist, oerjan 21:53:04 ;) 21:53:18 Tu- 21:53:49 PoopsyBF 21:53:58 tubf 21:53:59 tub F 21:54:03 :P 21:54:14 Sounds like kinky porn. 21:54:29 And/or scat porn, but I'm going to lean in another direction. 21:54:33 it's the next level of tubgirl 21:54:34 tubfuck 21:55:28 Nos-, Vos- and iirc Ea-, to complete the pronouns 21:55:53 i don't speak latin 21:55:53 :P 21:55:57 (err, that is latin right) 21:56:21 yep 21:56:39 Go Spanish. La-. LaBF = labf = lab F :P 21:56:42 More kinky porn. 21:58:03 Yo- 21:58:15 YoMamasBfInterpreter 21:58:26 to continue the Ego- into spanish 21:58:28 iirc 21:58:57 Weeell, "Yo" means "I", so that's a bit of a stretch. 21:59:08 so does "Ego" 21:59:17 Not in English. 21:59:23 the only reason i'm asking 21:59:31 is that "fsbfi" sounds ugly 21:59:36 (Fast Simple Brainfuck Interpreter) 21:59:46 Well, yeah, it is, I guess ... 21:59:48 Yo surely is descended from Ego 21:59:49 But not as a pronoun :P 21:59:50 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:02:34 i just can't think of a catchy interpreter name, haha 22:02:42 where's the kinky scat porn? 22:04:48 How 'bout bsmntbombf? 22:05:05 GregorR: now where have i heard that before 22:05:23 what's that mean? 22:09:53 bsbfi sounds like a videodriver name 22:16:42 Masturbation: God's Great Gift to Us 22:17:20 Before attempting fisting, a Christian husband and wife should pray together and ask for divine guidance. The husband should ask that God guide his hand and work through him, and for the skill and patience to fist his wife correctly and maximize her pleasure. The wife should pray for openness and readiness to receive God’s love and grace in the form of her husband’s hand. 22:19:12 WTF? X-D 22:22:48 what the hell 22:22:49 XD 22:27:06 -!- importantshock has joined. 22:27:11 -!- importantshock has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:27:50 Toward a Framework for Christian Porn 22:28:51 It must depict only married couples engaging in sexual acts; It must portray sex within the context of a Christian marriage; It must be instructional; Husband and wife must both receive their due benevolence; No extramarital sex, unless it is to illustrate the downfalls of adultery; It must be uplifting and inspirational, focusing on strengthening Christian marriage and Christian faith; No profanity 22:29:57 christian porn? isn't porn a sin in christianity or something? 22:30:27 a common misconception, according to http://www.sexinchrist.com/pornography.html 22:30:37 i'm not going to click, for my sanity 22:30:41 i hope you respect my decision 22:32:40 it's sfw 22:32:56 is it safe for mind though? 22:33:09 ehm 22:33:27 my mind has sufficient control over what enters it to make everything safe for mind 22:33:37 you'll have to make you own decision regarding that 22:38:17 I can't imagine pornography is explictly a sin, the technology required for the sin didn't exist when the sins were invented :P 22:38:36 drawings can be porn 22:39:29 True. 22:40:09 but i don't think it's it's explicitly a sin 22:51:53 umm, 22:51:55 +[.+--] 22:52:00 should output \1 then exit right 22:52:48 Yup 22:53:01 So should +. :P 22:53:04 :P 22:53:04 yeah 22:53:06 it was to test a bug 22:53:10 but now with this new version 22:53:12 it just lags forever 22:53:14 ho-hum 22:54:41 -!- immibis has joined. 23:02:49 woot 23:02:51 lostkng works in my interp 23:04:41 and fast! 23:04:53 about 1 second from starting to seeing the intro text 23:06:22 1 second to print some text! wow! 23:06:35 lostkng does a hell of a lot before printing the text... 23:06:48 once you see the intro text it's basically all loaded 23:14:39 tuhr tuhls 23:14:53 penguin benchmark avocado 23:15:13 ? 23:15:29 immibis coil fortress modulo sailing 23:15:49 ? 23:16:00 ? 23:16:18 what are you talking about 23:16:38 deftly turtle english markup 23:18:15 bbl folks 23:18:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 23:18:32 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 23:22:31 immibis: do you know that your quit message tends to be cut off? 23:22:51 yes 23:23:08 Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. 23:23:12 and then a random quit message 23:23:20 how original. 23:23:49 except i never see more than a few words of the latter. 23:24:29 i know. 23:24:37 * immibis abbreviates it, quits and reconnects 23:24:43 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC. Why is the ). 23:24:57 WHY IS THE -- 23:25:11 he's not here >:) 23:25:12 -!- immibis has joined. 23:25:20 -!- immibis has quit (Client Quit). 23:25:51 -!- immibis has joined. 23:26:22 the first one ended Why is the ), the second had no message (probably because you didn't stay logged in long enough) 23:27:02 * immibis can see his own quit message, thanks. 23:27:06 * immibis knows what it ended with 23:27:26 * immibis abbreviated it in his client's settings but evidently it didn't take effect yet 23:31:06 shtupid 23:34:32 does anyone here have any experience with Direct Sound (on a gameboy advance, not the directx one) or know anyone who does? 23:37:57 if anyone does, http://www.speedyshare.com/924952283.html is the output of my attempt at making a wav player for gba 23:58:02 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:58:39 -!- immibis has joined. 2007-10-30: 00:09:46 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:49:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:53:59 ehird`: Any further clues on PEBBLE in PEBBLE? 00:54:17 pikhq: no, i haven't tried today :( sorry 00:54:19 what?!?! 00:54:24 pikhq: tomorrow, though, i'll do it 00:54:26 It's pebbles all the way down! 00:54:30 bsmntbombdood: i'm going to write a pebble compiler in pebble 00:54:41 and vanquish the evil tcl... from my version, at least. 00:54:50 i mean, the compiler for pebble looks pretty trivial 00:55:00 but, no string manip in PEBBLE iirc, so a bit harder 00:55:03 for some reason i just started downloading 2gb of nigel kennedy >_< 01:02:45 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:08:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:10:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:26:45 pikhq: hmm, what would pebble-in-pebble mean for pfuck? 01:26:50 i'm sure there's some profound implication 01:31:13 XD 01:31:25 would the universe explode? 01:31:28 would it go 50 times faster? 01:35:02 :) 01:35:12 pikhq: IT WOULD ENVELOP AWESOMENESS INTO ITS COMPILED CODE 01:36:13 -!- oerjan has quit ("Late very good"). 01:36:17 It would merely be amusingly recursive. 01:36:28 So, distro: 01:36:36 pebble.b src/lotsofstuff.pebble 01:36:52 pebble.b, compiled with PFUCK, running under a C version of PEBBLE, compiled by pebble.b 01:36:56 Understand THAT! 01:37:47 pebble compiles pebble.bfm. pfuck compiles pebble.b. gcc compiles pebble.c. pebble comipiles pfuck.bfm. pfuck compiles pfuck.b. gcc compiles pfuck.c. 01:37:52 ;) 01:38:01 (bfm? that's pebble, right?) 01:38:12 (I use the .bfm prefix still) 01:38:18 (s/pre/post/) 01:38:22 ok, right, i'll explain, in PEBBLE/tcl and PEBBLE/pebble: 01:38:32 PEBBLE/tcl, long time ago, compiles pebble.bfm 01:38:34 LATER 01:38:41 wait 01:38:50 PEBBLE/tcl, long time ago, compiles pebble.bfm to-C: now it's PEBBLE/pebbleC 01:38:51 LATER 01:39:05 PEBBLE/pebbleC runs PFUCK, compiles pebble.bfm 01:39:27 (producing PEBBLE/pebbleBF) 01:39:50 of course, since PEBBLE/pebble's output - BF and C - will not always be identical to PEBBLE/tcl 01:40:02 there are more iterations of PEBBLE/pebbleC compiling pebble.bfm to-C in "LATER" 01:41:17 :D 01:41:22 pikhq: crazy, no? 01:41:41 I'd consider pebble.bfm to be *another* implementation of PEBBLE; I'd still maintain pebble.tcl. ;) 01:41:47 And, yeah, that is crazy. 01:41:50 of course 01:42:10 * pikhq assumes pebble.bfm, for a first run, at least, would not support optimization, language-specific macros, etc. 01:42:24 pebble.tcl is needed! 01:42:25 (For bootstrapping, of course. What do you mean, it may be useful as an implementation? Pff. Surely you jest. pebble.tcl would not come out of my hands originally! My logic is infallable. I do not suffer from NIH-overload.) 01:42:37 yeah, i would implement those after though 01:44:00 i'm heading off now 01:44:10 pikhq: pebble.bfm - the revolution begins tomorrow! ;) 01:44:35 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:45:07 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:45:17 hi everyone 01:45:50 XD 01:46:31 * pikhq wants to see how ehird handles the "source" command. 02:30:16 Someone appears to be suggesting that ais523's 2,3 Turing machine proof is inaccurate. . . 02:31:02 haha 02:31:13 link 02:32:27 oh i see on slashdot 02:33:03 We of #esoteric should make the news by fixing that. ;p 02:33:19 what's FOM? 02:36:53 and what did we fix? 02:38:45 it's funny that a single mailing list post is enough for slashdot to post 02:39:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:39:26 I'd need to review the proof quite thouroughly before being sure the mailing list post is at all correct. 02:42:22 ...as would anyone 02:42:28 Yeah. 02:48:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:51:54 aww feck, homeworkd 02:55:36 homeworkd(1): Assigns homework based on crond scheduling. 02:56:43 lold 02:57:08 i should learn IPA 02:58:27 (instead of doing my homework) 02:59:19 transcription to extended ipa would be a fun speach compression method 03:33:18 I recently came up with what I think is a fairly robust BF "While x> constant n: do code" construct 03:33:44 I will use the notation n(stuff) to represent "stuff" being repeated n times 03:34:11 x, tmp and flag are variable cells, and zero is initialized to be a constant zero 03:35:01 x [ flag [-] n( [x - tmp + ) [ code flag + zero ] n( ] ) tmp [ - x + tmp ] flag ] 03:35:07 what do you guys think? 03:35:42 Clever. 03:35:46 :) 03:45:37 I think it might be possible to do with fewer cells, but 1 cell for x and an overhead of 3 doesn't seem too bad for a reasonably high-level construct 03:58:50 Is there a good general approach to string generation when you allow temporary space, or do most people do it with genetic algorithms/ brute force/ dynamic programming? 03:59:30 Define "good". 03:59:37 And the amount of temporary space. 04:00:37 let's say three cells 04:01:01 and the emphasis is on a "good, general" approach rather than simply a "good" approach 04:05:46 Well, you *could* do what PEBBLE does. . . 04:05:53 there needs to be a better algorithm for it 04:05:55 pikhq: what's that? 04:06:01 It ain't terribly good, but it's general. 04:06:25 I am quite curious 04:06:38 bsmntbombdood: It just uses two-cell wrapping implementations of the constants to add and subtract from a cell. . . 04:06:46 lame 04:06:53 the algorithm is very straightforward if you try generating strings from a single cell 04:06:56 hm 04:07:03 It doesn't work too badly for a naive algorithm. 04:07:28 I suppose that'd generate decent output, but clearly far from optimal 04:10:00 i think i'm going to work on an algorithm 04:10:42 go for it, dude 04:12:08 If it's good, I may well include it in PEBBLE. 04:14:15 maybe try to find numbers that meet a balance between being the most common in the target string and the furthest apart from one another? 04:24:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:42:55 I'm looking at this "while". If n=3 then it translates as 04:42:59 x tmp flag zero 04:42:59 [>>[-][<<->+[<->+[<->+[code>+>]]]]<<[-<+>]>] 04:43:00 ? 04:45:23 that looks correct 04:45:48 geez, i haven't coded in a while 04:46:00 i'm getting confused >_< 04:47:15 That can't be right. For one thing, it has a ][ in it. 04:47:50 yes. removing the ][, you get [>>[-]<<[-<+>]>] 04:47:53 what's the brainfuck for taking [n, 0, 0, ...] to [n, n*2, n*3, ..., n*m, 0, 0 ...]? 04:48:12 which never executes the code. 04:48:17 ttm: ah... whoops 04:48:46 good catch- you need to move to x after zeroing flag, before you begin the if block 04:49:01 bsmnt how confident are you that all values will fit in a byte? 04:49:09 ttm: perfectly 04:49:22 Okay. Let's think then. 04:49:30 m is below floor(n/256) 04:49:44 *m = floor(n/256) 04:50:55 x tmp flag zero 04:50:55 [>>[-]<<[->+[<->+[<->+[code>+>]]]]<<[-<+>]>]? 04:51:59 yeah 04:58:52 Hm. Still can't be right. [>>[-]<<[->+<[->+<[->+<[code>>+>]]]]<<[-<+>]>] is probably getting closer... 05:00:24 that really depends on what's in code 05:01:24 bsmnt is m stored in memory, and are we okay with wiping it out? Or is it constant? 05:08:35 the two things that must occur in the main [] set with code are that flag is set to "true" (nonzero), and we move to constant zero to break out of all our nested brackets 05:08:57 That's clear. 05:11:32 What's not entirely clear is how the outermost loop is supposed to match up. We started it at x, and we end it at flag. So we need some code near the start of the outermost loop to resynch the pointer location...and we also need to leave ourselves a way, after we break out of that outer loop, to check on whether we went through it at all. 05:16:42 that's the purpose of flag 05:17:13 if we make it to the innermost loop and execute code, flag is set, and we continue the main while loop, and it's reset for the next iteration 05:22:26 Yeah...but if we end the main while loop at flag, when we started it at x, then the code will not be acting on the same things unless we add other code to insure the pointer is at the same place in both cases. 05:22:59 Whereas if we start the main loop at flag both times, then it won't have the correct value at first unless we add extra code first to set it... 05:26:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:30:29 well, I need to sleep. I'll look this over again in the morning, and think about some revisions 05:30:41 Good night and good luck. 05:30:55 thanks for helping me find my mistakes 05:31:01 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:57:33 ttm: constant 05:58:19 and the code is [>+>++>+++<<<-] 05:58:44 etc 06:00:20 although that would get inneficient when n is small 06:10:42 Ah. I was trying to figure the most concise way to do it with variable m. 06:12:00 it would be cool if there was a way to do it without all the redundant +s 06:14:30 Well, if you put m just to the right of where you want the last one to end up, you can do [<[+<]+[>]<-] 06:14:58 where does that start? 06:15:08 at m. 06:15:58 i don't think that works 06:20:06 And...you're right. You can do it once, but it won't work right twice let alone n times. 06:20:41 -!- DawnLight has joined. 06:22:16 /bed 06:26:09 It works if you space them out. for m=5 we have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>,[<<+++++[<[+<<]+[>>]<-]<[<<]>>[[<+>-]>>]>-]<<<<.<<.<<.<<.<<. 06:33:02 my god 06:39:50 There should be some really clever concise way to do this without using so much apparatus. But I'm not seeing it right now. 07:37:53 -!- DawnLight has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:51:14 -!- DawnLight has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:21:02 i need a command that will print a certain number of byes from a serial port and quit! 08:21:40 a command in what language 08:22:17 a linux command 08:22:25 doh 08:23:03 cat works the way it does because files have endings but /dev/ttyS0 doesn't 08:23:31 that's also true about inotail and dog doesn't read it at all 08:25:30 try 'head -cNUMBER_OF_BYTES /dev/ttyS0' 08:27:28 immibis: yay! 08:28:12 thanks 08:32:32 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:54:38 -!- jix has joined. 10:34:37 -!- AnMaster has joined. 11:49:59 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:22:08 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:25:25 btw, somewhat insane optimizing brainfuck compiler coded in bash: http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/get/bashfuck/head/bashfuck 12:25:31 there are still a few bugs to fix in it 12:25:56 it does have some problems with LostKng.b, some off by one error that I'm trying to find 12:26:35 s/compiler/interpreter 13:34:38 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:51:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:51:28 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:53:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:01:01 -!- DawnLight has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:26:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:27:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:27:25 -!- sekhmet has joined. 15:09:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:56:57 does any known BF interp optimize [+>-+<-] to []? 16:04:00 EgoBot prolly 16:04:05 that's a trivial optimization 16:04:36 "+-" -> "", "><" -> "", actually, many of my bf's would do that too 16:05:09 yeah 16:05:12 mine is going to do that 16:05:41 it'll optimize in a loop 16:05:49 first it'll see -+ 16:05:55 so [+><-] 16:05:58 then it'll see >< 16:05:59 so [+-] 16:06:02 then it'll see +-, so [] 16:06:04 and we're done 16:09:23 i assume it optimizes any string of + 16:09:24 ... 16:09:36 yeah 16:09:38 i assume it optimizes any string of +'s and -'s into one with just one of them 16:09:39 but that's how mine does it 16:09:41 yeah 16:09:49 i have a "modify" instruction 16:09:55 +-- is { modify, -1 } 16:10:07 yeah i did it that way too 16:10:20 fast 16:18:16 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:26:18 oh dear 16:26:20 http://cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2007-October/012156.html 16:26:23 found this on reddit... 16:26:35 apparently it's wrong 16:26:36 but... 16:37:05 poor guy 16:37:12 indeed 16:37:30 people seem to be disagreeing 16:38:02 it's a fundamental added subtlety when you have things like CAs with infinite initial state 16:39:01 lool 16:39:06 this crappy page on pi is hilarious 16:39:08 "*known to be over 5 billion digits long" 16:39:31 (this is from 1997, and has MIDI background music) 16:41:06 * cherez chortles his posterior off. 16:41:17 ehird`: Where's this pi page? 16:41:29 http://members.aol.com/loosetooth/info.html 16:41:39 *the equivalent of 180 degrees when measured in radians 16:41:43 you know i don't think that's coincidential! 16:43:37 "If pi were just 3, then we wouldn't have circles at all!" 16:45:20 "At the end of most Macintosh source codes." 16:45:36 Whenever I port stuff to Mac, I define pi at the end of the file. 16:45:45 it's probably a magic number 16:46:00 hm 16:46:11 what's the most efficient way of parsing brainfuck [ ... ]s when using instruction structs? 16:46:17 (i.e. you can't store positions in code in a stack) 16:47:35 -!- DawnLight has joined. 16:50:43 is it ok if i come here once in a while asking questions that will probably be irrelevant to the channel but which i assume someone here may know the answer for? and they may be dumb questions. and they may be questions for which the answers may be a few pages of reading away from me. so can i do that? 16:52:25 well everyone here does that, but it would be nice if you were on-topic occasionally :) 16:52:29 no, this channel never gets offtopic, try asking something irrelevant and you get banned instantly 16:52:36 err... what oerjan said. 16:53:02 HEY, I LIKE PIE 16:53:15 we agree completely, as you can see 16:53:27 IN THE SKY 16:53:36 NEVERMIIIND THE WINDS 16:53:39 we agree completely IN THE SKY 16:53:55 * oerjan just learned that expression 16:53:59 did i guess the rest of the song correct? 16:54:16 oklopol: indeed 16:54:17 in the ski 16:54:31 so i'm gon' ask 16:54:38 ``sk`sii```ksi 16:54:53 >>> sk ``sk`sii```ksi 16:54:58 >>> ul ``sk`sii```ksi 16:55:00 -> ('s', 'k', ('s', 'i')) 16:55:01 i should rename that. 16:55:03 it's not unlambda.. 16:55:14 or better yet! i should make it unlambda ;) 16:55:19 >>> ul `ss 16:55:20 -> ('s', 's') 16:55:20 alas, it was just something i banged on my keyboard 16:55:22 >>> ul `s`sk 16:55:23 -> ('s', ('s', 'k')) 16:55:30 >>> ul `k`s`sk 16:55:31 -> ('k', ('s', ('s', 'k'))) 16:55:49 >>> ul ```sii``sii 16:55:50 -> [['i', ('s', 'i', 'i')], ['i', ('s', 'i', 'i')]] 16:55:55 That's Not Right 16:56:01 oerjan: tell that to your computer next time you just "bang on your keyboard" and erase all your files. 16:56:30 interesting 16:56:50 >>> ul ```sii``si.k 16:56:51 kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk -> [['i', ('s', 'i', '.k')], ['.k', ('s', 'i', '.k')]] 16:57:02 yeah, it just terminates at some point 16:57:14 should i make it crash instead? 16:57:30 nah 16:57:30 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:57:35 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:57:35 make it detect infinite loops 16:57:39 DAZ WHUTTI THOUGHT 16:57:41 as a mad genius to another, i say make it take over the world 16:57:53 MWAHAHAHA IT ALREADY DOES THAT! 16:57:55 store all previous states, if it returns to a previous state, output "infinite loop, reached [matching state]" 16:58:07 ski programs are not going to be big enough to make that slow :P 16:58:45 hm, what about making Alabama sink into the ocean? 16:58:57 that's a pretty useless optimization, since they only help with small progs like ```sii``sii, and irc bots never get short programs, it's always something huge. 16:58:58 i need a linux command that will take some ascii as stdin and give raw bytes in stdout. for example, i give it 400132 and it gives me three bytes, 40, 01 and 32 16:59:07 oklopol: oh come on 16:59:09 oklopol: it'll be fun 16:59:13 kay 16:59:15 wait 16:59:55 btw. don't use it while i code, i could disable it, but i trust you 17:00:05 * oklopol likes egging ppl on 17:00:21 hey, that's clever 17:00:27 a bf interpreter using mmap 17:00:30 to read in code 17:01:41 DawnLight: in hex? 17:01:52 oerjan: right 17:02:24 hm, can hexdump work in reverse? 17:02:47 does anyone know? 17:02:55 i mean you can't do a stack, with a struct 17:03:27 you can if it contains a pointer to the next one 17:03:42 right, but that's O(n) bracket matching 17:04:11 well obviously loops will be implemented as a unit 17:04:19 oerjan: i think not 17:04:26 what do you mean oerjan? 17:04:39 by stack-parsing 17:04:41 i mean like this does http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/sbi.c 17:04:53 uh, i just love python sometimes, i need to reindent every line, because it decided "indentation mixes spaces and tabs" 17:04:58 even though it totally doesn't. 17:05:10 indentation using both is forbidden in python 17:05:13 you can either use tabs or spaces 17:05:24 errr... orly :) 17:05:32 um, you can have a stack of currently open loops being parsed 17:05:54 that stack could be a linked list 17:06:00 yeah 17:06:03 that's what sbi.c does, kind of 17:06:09 but is it the fastest way? 17:06:31 i'm trying to make the parsing very quick in this interp, because the optimization step will be very heavy 17:06:47 the interpreting part is already compact, so if i can get the parsing fast too... 17:06:51 then i can concentrate on optimizations 17:07:55 interpreting will take too little to notice compared to the optimization even if you *try* to make it slow. 17:08:36 of course 17:08:37 but parsing 17:08:39 is pretty big 17:10:31 okay, i'll make the loop checker now 17:10:39 got everything reindented :P 17:10:47 IDLE can do that for you 17:13:35 >>> sk ```sii``sii 17:13:36 Infinite loop detected 17:13:59 noo 17:14:02 make it output where it finds it 17:14:05 i.e. the frame that it finds to repeat 17:14:06 :D 17:14:11 oh 17:14:11 it'll be a debugger! 17:14:13 kay. 17:15:18 glah, why isn't there a "return from whole recursion", like in oklotalk :< 17:15:34 just return None 17:15:35 then 17:15:38 when you recurse 17:15:44 if (recurse) == None: return None 17:16:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:16:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:16:57 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:17:25 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:17:37 whoops. 17:17:52 i just realized that is not a trivial problem 17:18:08 given my current implementation, that is 17:18:19 XD 17:18:23 its very simple 17:18:26 each reduction step 17:18:30 states.append(frame) 17:18:33 then, each reduction step 17:18:37 if frame in states: 17:18:54 self.say("OMG " + frame + " REPEATS") 17:18:57 -!- DawnLight has left (?). 17:19:01 lol 17:19:17 i do evaluation recursively 17:19:33 so? 17:19:38 it's not trivial in that case, but this won't take long anyway 17:19:44 so? :\ 17:20:04 i did exactly that, and now ```sii``sii evaluates i twice and says it's an infinite loop 17:20:14 it's not trivial, but it's easy 17:21:14 i mean, it's trivial if my next attemp works, if not, then i'll have to think a bit 17:21:54 okay 17:21:57 i think it's ready 17:22:06 >>> sk ```sii``sii 17:22:07 Infinite loop detected at [('s', 'i', 'i'), ('s', 'i', 'i')] 17:22:10 :D 17:22:16 >>> sk ``khs 17:22:17 -> h 17:22:55 i think i have a function to make that into an unlambda-like string, wait 17:23:05 >>> sk ``kh```sii``sii 17:23:06 Infinite loop detected at [('k', 'h'), [['i', ('s', 'i', 'i')], ['i', ('s', 'i', 'i')]]] 17:23:10 wtf 17:23:12 oh 17:23:13 no 17:23:14 that's right 17:23:16 i don't :< 17:23:18 hmm 17:23:25 it isn't lazily evaluating 17:23:27 it is? :\ 17:23:41 ``kxy should only evaluate x 17:23:55 well, not really 17:23:57 no 17:24:00 that is how it works 17:24:01 its lazy 17:24:04 this is the ski part of unlambda 17:24:13 == strict 17:24:22 but... 17:24:24 well its not unlambda 17:24:29 so make it SKI and make it lazy :-) 17:24:41 so, what IS the most efficient method of matching braces brainfuck? 17:24:45 i can make k, i'm not making it fully lazy. 17:24:47 presumably not looping through teh program 17:25:17 oh, actually, i'm not making even k lazy. 17:25:28 now that i glanced at my code, and saw i'd have to do something. 17:26:24 ehird`: when you see a [ you start the parser recursively? 17:26:39 oerjan: recursion is bad though :/ 17:26:42 oerjan: in this case 17:26:56 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:27:06 -!- jix has joined. 17:27:15 equivalently, you push your current block on the stack, and start an empty one 17:27:33 that's pretty slow in this case though too 17:27:42 >>> sk `4 5 17:27:48 ..? 17:27:49 whut... 17:27:52 i just wonder, with my really simple struct what the most efficient way is to parse braces 17:27:55 >>> sk `45 17:28:01 that should return `45 :| 17:28:09 this is weird 17:29:50 i don't get it... 17:30:59 >>> sk ``s`kr``s``si`k.*`ki 4 17:31:00 -> ('s', ('k', 'r'), ('s', ('s', 'i', ('k', '.*')), ('k', 'i'))) 17:31:05 .. 17:31:25 >>> pl ^n`r``$n.*i 17:31:26 ``s`kr``s``si`k.`k* 17:31:35 >>> pl ^n`r``$n*i 17:31:36 ``s`kr``s``si`k*`ki 17:32:36 i'm pretty sure that worked in the past... 17:32:47 oh 17:32:47 >>> pl ^a$a 17:32:48 r. 17:32:50 i 17:32:58 >>> pl ^a^b$a 17:32:59 ``s`kki 17:33:02 um 17:33:05 im pretty sure that's k 17:33:43 it doesn't optimize, it does the trick on the unlambda page 17:33:58 >>> pl ^a^b$b 17:33:59 `ki 17:34:23 >>> pl `^x`$x$x^x`$x$x 17:34:23 ```sii``sii 17:34:26 (gosh that syntax is ugly) 17:34:30 pl works, no doubt about it, it's the sk i'm worried about 17:35:05 shouldn't `4 5 exponentiate 4^5 :\ 17:35:10 ... 17:35:12 what? 17:35:12 no 17:35:15 using the representation on the unlambda pge 17:35:15 it should return `45 17:35:16 *page 17:35:21 err kay. 17:35:31 >>> sk 4 17:35:32 -> ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), 'i'))) 17:35:35 oh 17:35:38 you have them defined 17:35:39 that is correct 17:35:40 as constants 17:35:41 but... 17:36:03 >>> sk ` ``s`k.i``s``si`k.*`ki 4 17:36:04 ****i -> i 17:36:08 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 17:36:11 >>> sk * 17:36:12 -> * 17:36:12 god i'm an idiot xD 17:36:15 >>> sk x 17:36:16 -> x 17:36:17 >>> sk `xx 17:36:18 -> ('x', 'x') 17:36:19 >>> sk ` ``s`k.i``s``si`k.*`ki ` 4 5 17:36:25 >>> sk ` ``s`k.i``s``si`k.*`ki ` 4 3 17:36:26 *********************************************************************************i -> i 17:36:28 >>> sk `*`ik 17:36:29 -> ('*', 'k') 17:36:34 >>> sk `45 17:36:38 >>> sk `4 5 17:36:38 kay, it works, i just fail @ unlambda. 17:36:44 >>> sk `4 5 17:36:49 >>> sk ` 4 5 17:36:51 wtf 17:37:09 4^5 is a big number, i also failed at math :)) 17:37:36 if the result is too long, it just produces no output currently 17:37:48 >>> sk `s`4 5 17:37:56 omg, where's my time! it's 19:37 already :< 17:38:03 * ehird` wonders how to do "for i=0 to i=N, ..." in ski 17:38:19 use a different representation 17:38:22 for that 17:39:31 You would think parsing [] really quickly would be simple. :-| 17:40:25 >>> ` ``s`k.i``s``si`k.o`k. sk ```s``si`k``s``s``s``si`ki`k`ki`k`ki`s``s`ksk`k`k`kk4 5 17:40:32 whoops. 17:40:35 >>> ` ``s`k.i``s``si`k.o`k. sk ```s``si`k``s``s``s``si`ki`k`ki`k`ki`s``s`ksk`k`k`kk6 5 17:40:54 >>> ```s``si`k``s``s``s``si`ki`k`ki`k`ki`s``s`ksk`k`k`kk 6 5 17:40:59 >>> sk ```s``si`k``s``s``s``si`ki`k`ki`k`ki`s``s`ksk`k`k`kk 6 5 17:41:00 lol. 17:41:00 -> ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('s', ('s', ('k', 's'), 'k'), ('k', 'i')))))) 17:41:14 >>> sk ` ``s`k.i``s``si`k.o`k. ```s``si`k``s``s``s``si`ki`k`ki`k`ki`s``s`ksk`k`k`kk7 5 17:41:15 ooooooi -> . 17:41:25 that's... almost correct.. :< 17:42:57 oklopol> omg, where's my time! it's 19:37 already :< 17:43:08 me thinks you forgot to change to winter time? 17:43:18 lol, daylight savings 17:44:38 unless finland actually changes on a different day than most of europe 17:44:39 oerjan: it's not my birthday yet, but thanks for the hour, best gift i've ever gotten :) 17:44:55 or... 17:44:56 yay 17:45:04 it's backwards right? :P 17:45:16 o 17:45:19 (19:44:40) (oklopol) it's backwards right? :P 17:45:19 (18:44:50) (oklopol) o 17:45:22 success! 17:45:24 17:45 here 17:45:36 * ehird` wonders whether to mmap or getc repeatedly 17:45:36 * oklopol does a little dance 17:45:43 it seems like mmap would be more efficient 17:46:36 how would you use it? 17:48:31 umm 17:48:32 like mmap? 17:50:26 how would that help in parsing? 17:52:28 well 17:52:29 i just mean 17:52:31 for reading in 18:03:54 case O_JMP: 18:03:54 if ((arg && !tape[tapep]) || (!arg && tape[tapep])) { 18:03:54 i = i->arg2; 18:03:54 continue; 18:03:54 } 18:04:01 that's clever :-) no more [ and ] instructions 18:05:49 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 18:10:44 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined. 18:10:49 ok, efficient interpreter - check 18:10:51 now to write the parser 18:10:52 :P 18:11:16 poll: mmap or getchar over and over? 18:11:53 mmap sounds nicer. 18:12:11 that's not helpf 18:12:13 ul 18:12:15 :P 18:31:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner from hazard"). 18:38:04 oh well 18:38:09 you are all very helpful 18:41:31 hmm 19:19:22 which is more efficient: 19:19:26 optimizing after parsing 19:19:30 or parsing and optimizing at the same time 19:32:16 mmap? 19:32:21 you can mmap stdin? 19:35:44 um 19:35:52 bsmntbombdood: no 19:36:01 about the whole turing-completess thing 19:36:04 my interpreter takes program file name as first argument 19:36:06 ^a 19:36:08 if we allow "non-repetitive infinite initial conditions" 19:36:20 wha? 19:36:23 i'm pretty sure that makes SMETANA turing-complete as well 19:36:27 http://forum.wolframscience.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1472 19:37:30 it would be a very simple structure, it has a "head" and then a "tail" consisting of identical pieces of code with different numbers (trivially generated by any process) 19:37:40 how can you solve the halting problem with an infinite starting condition? 19:37:58 bsmntbombdood: "infinite starting condition" means an infinitely big program. You can do a lot of stuff with infinitely big programs. 19:38:07 how... 19:38:23 lament: you cannot solve the halting problem with an infinitely big program unless you hardcode EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM and if it halts or not 19:38:32 ... generating that program is equivilant to the halting problem of course 19:38:50 ehird`: right, but the point is that you can :) 19:38:58 oh that's lame 19:38:59 ehird`: and he does say such programs are uncomputable 19:39:13 no dice if the starting condition is uncomputable 19:39:20 right 19:39:30 ais's starting conditions in the proof are computable 19:39:33 but infinite 19:39:38 so this guy claims that that's enough 19:39:49 but if that's allowed, then SMETANA should be turing-complete 19:40:30 you can represent a brainfuck "memory cell" with ~20 lines of smetana 19:40:40 so with an infinite smetana program, you can represent the entire brainfuck memory tape 19:43:50 so anyone have comments on my parsing/optimizing order? 19:44:00 i would think that i should do parsing first, then optimize 19:44:05 because i have my nice tokens to play with 19:45:10 ok 19:45:18 i'll flip a coin for mmap vs getchar 19:45:18 :P 19:45:32 no me understando 19:45:39 bsmntbombdood: for what 19:45:49 then again i've never understood mmap 19:46:15 well 19:46:19 i shall mmap the code file 19:46:28 mmap just maps N bytes of a file to a pointer 19:46:33 and lazily reads them out on read 19:47:01 the major difference, i think, here, is that i need to do a stat on the file before mmaping 19:47:02 that's it 19:47:09 but of course getc is more complex 20:05:35 we s;; lmpe yjsy vpm[;rc od nryyrt 20:05:44 *we all know that complex is better 20:07:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:23:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:23:09 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:25:16 hmm 20:25:41 changing +-+ to +(1) should be done at optimizing stage right? 20:25:44 not parsing stage 20:25:50 (alternatively, just ++ to +(2)) 20:33:11 anyone? 20:33:17 i'm thinking because i optimize away e.g. >< 20:33:17 so: 20:33:20 +><+ 20:33:22 should be +(2) 20:33:33 but it'll be +(1)+(1) if i do ++->+(2) at parse-time 20:48:37 after working on this interp for hours 20:48:44 i'm compiling it for the First. Damn. Time. 20:48:47 here comes the bugfixes. 20:59:10 hm 21:00:00 hmm 21:00:12 all the brainfuck optimizations i can think of just remove redundant code 21:00:18 not really speed it up in any way 21:00:24 (apart from +++++++ -> + stuff) 21:00:31 are there any REAL optimizations you can do? 21:00:37 i currently optimize [-]... 21:00:43 (and [+] of course) 21:00:49 (and then [+--], etc) 21:22:17 [->>++<<] and everything else of that form can be quite trivially optimized 21:23:30 in fact, any loop which has no net effect on the memory pointer and contains no nested loops 21:24:39 ok i have a brainfuck text generating algorithm but it's pretty sucky 21:28:23 ehird`: didn't you say you have tons of brilliant brainfuck optimization techiniques? 21:28:28 asd typoes. 21:28:58 i've been watching south park for like 5 hours. 21:29:07 blah 21:29:10 soon 21:29:11 code 21:29:14 . 21:29:17 must 21:32:29 +++++[>+++++<-]>[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<<-]>>>.>+++++.+++++++..+++.<<----.<++++++++.>>>>-.<.+++.------.--------.<<<+. 21:32:39 that's "Hello, world!" 21:33:33 erm, no it's not 21:33:52 oklopol: yes, but compiler suited 21:33:56 oklopol: not for an interp 21:33:57 ++++++++++++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<<-]>>>.>+++++.+++++++..+++.<<----.<++++++++.>>>>-.<.+++.------.--------.<<<+. 21:34:00 that is 21:35:16 whoa, that's better than the hello world on the wiki 21:38:42 ehird`: i see. 21:38:57 i don't see a difference, really 21:38:57 bsmntbombdood: is it? 21:39:09 oklopol: optimizations that take ages to apply = compiler territory 21:39:18 yeah 21:39:32 ehird`: i see 21:39:56 oklopol: after all, speed is the goal :) 21:41:18 true, but no one cares about a delay that only occurs once 21:41:32 think about mandelbrot.b runtime 21:41:41 if the parsing+optimizing takes a long time 21:41:47 then it'll rank, on the whole, badly 21:41:55 "rank"? 21:42:06 compared to other interps 21:42:08 on the top10 of bf-interpreters? 21:42:18 the official list 21:42:22 the official list? 21:43:13 what kind of optimizations do you have that would take long to apply, and what's a long time? 21:43:29 1. everything non-trivial 2. everything that's slow 21:43:57 err... kay 21:44:06 now wanna answer at least one of those? 21:44:26 human nature is completely subjective 21:44:31 i cannot explain subjective things objectively 21:44:43 ...you can explain what you meant by a long time. 21:44:52 ok, let me elaborate 21:45:12 an optimization that takes a long time is an optimization where taking in account the time taken to apply it, it slows the interpretation process down on the whole 21:45:23 this of course does not matter for compilers - compiling time does not matter 21:45:54 ...okay, from now on, i'll just say not-orly everytime i don't feel like orlying what you say. 21:45:59 anyway, wanna answer the questions? 21:46:15 no 21:46:19 i see 21:48:40 what other big programs do people use to test their brainfuck interpreter? 21:48:46 right now i'm using mandelbrot.b and LostKng.b 21:59:39 anyone? 22:42:49 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:49:00 -!- ihope has joined. 22:53:17 "Leopard is so powerful, it makes Reddit's search function work right." 23:20:49 I see we are not discussing parser-based esoteric programming languages. This must be rectified. 23:21:01 parser-based? 23:23:55 Yes. Let me wrestle the logs and find it... 23:25:35 Mmf. ircbrowse.com's search feature seems non-functional. 23:31:17 Here we go! http://pastebin.ca/679421 23:31:58 ahh yes 23:32:24 show me a fibonacci generator and i'll be impressed 23:32:24 ;) 23:32:46 Is unary okay? :-P 23:33:03 sure 23:33:14 then write an unary->something else converter :-) 23:33:22 "it's modular" 23:33:27 I'll do the unary first. 23:33:37 Or maybe decimal would actually be easier. 23:33:51 easiest is probably binary 23:34:00 Oh, yes. 23:34:19 Then I guess I need a parser that parses stuff like 101|1000 into stuff like 1000|1101. 23:34:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system#Example_2:_Fibonacci_numbers 23:34:29 that will be the simplest 23:34:34 you can EASILY do that in your language 23:34:49 Oh, of course. 23:34:56 it produces fibonacci numbers in unary 23:35:01 (B = A, of course) 23:35:13 so, wrap an unary->something else converter over that 23:35:13 and voila 23:36:01 * ihope nods 23:37:55 Halfway done: http://pastebin.ca/755820 23:37:57 Except not. 23:38:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:39:04 I'll finish it later! 23:39:23 Since I have to go eat and all. 23:40:00 bye :) 23:40:05 you havent been in here for ages 23:40:07 (Also, I forgot the period at the end.) 23:40:09 Bye. 23:41:16 i'm pretty sure that makes SMETANA turing-complete as well 23:41:57 indeed, i discussed that on the esoteric mailing list once upon a time 23:42:05 called it SMETANA+1 23:42:45 you'd think turing completeness would be an unambiguous consept 23:42:56 oklopol: it is 23:43:04 it's just hard to prove :-) 23:44:27 hmm 23:44:48 i wonder what the simplest pattern-matching-and-substitution language is that is TC 23:44:55 i.e. a mapping of state 1 to state 2 23:44:58 ehird`: i mean all these debates arguing over stuff like pointer-size-defined-when-program-starts (c) and initial-conditions-are-infinite-but-created-by-a-non-universal-machine (smetana, the 2,3 tm) 23:45:04 and the input to a program is transformed from state 1 to state 2 repeatedly 23:45:24 http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2001-q3 23:45:32 lament: ^^ 23:45:48 the first one is trivially not turing complete, but i'm not sure about the second one. 23:45:58 i trust ais 23:45:59 :) 23:46:13 heh 23:46:38 later i extended it to something called Moldau, in http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2001-q4 23:46:51 ais is quite inactive, i don't have a strong opinion on him 23:46:52 *them 23:47:36 markus is sounds finnish. 23:47:46 oerjan: i'm talking about regular smetana. 23:47:55 *-is 23:48:08 lament: Smetana+1 can be considered simply a notation for your infinite initial pattern 23:50:43 i think i'm doZzZering off here -> 23:50:45 Moldau on the other hand was seriously overkill, as i mentioned already in my initial post 23:50:51 *dosing 23:50:55 ----> 23:51:15 with only Goto, it was essentially continuation-passing Prolog 23:51:27 anyone? 23:51:33 i wonder how minimal you can get it 23:51:40 obviously less minimal than tode (@oklopol ;)) 23:53:51 :/ 2007-10-31: 00:09:57 hmm 00:11:48 oerjan: if smetana+1 compacts the infinite smetana program to finite size, then it's obviously turing-complete 00:12:43 oerjan: the question is whether we can consider smetana to be turing-complete, despite infinitely large programs 00:14:11 and "smetana+1 is just a notation" would be a good argument for that. 00:15:15 if it is turing complete 00:15:19 it can hardly be said to be just a notation 00:15:59 ehird`: that doesn't make any sense. 00:20:49 ehird`: Any more pebble.bfm insanity? 00:20:55 pikhq: damnit!!! i forgot 00:21:02 pikhq: =( 00:21:18 pikhq: it'll also be harder than i thought due to lack of strings in pebble 00:21:37 Meaning that you'd have to do string functions first. 00:21:44 yes 00:21:56 the hardest part would be coming up with an efficient representation 00:22:16 i mean, H1e1l1l1o1w1o1r1l1d is... bigger than neccessary 00:24:30 Only by a constant factor. 00:24:38 i mean linear. 00:24:43 And "Hello world\0x00" is. . . Not useful for string insertion in Brainfuck. ;) 00:25:38 lament: yeah well :( 00:25:51 i guess, i'll do the swapping-algorithm 00:25:55 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 00:25:55 Helloworld0 00:25:58 to insert to string 00:26:15 make 0 the index of the string from the end you want to access 00:26:19 swap and -1 repeatedly 00:26:37 of course, to iterate 00:26:43 just go from H until you find 0 00:27:51 good algorithm? 00:27:57 though the swapping could be inefficient 00:29:18 pikhq: lament: comments? 00:29:41 i bought sheet music paper! 00:30:02 related comments? 00:30:33 10 staves per sheet, 40 sheets (related to my previous comment) 00:31:00 related to my algorithm 00:32:19 :) 00:36:57 i guess the swapping would be slow 00:36:58 no? 00:40:03 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:51:15 no/yes? ;) (lament,pikhq) 00:55:59 Are you looking for minimal Turing-complete systems? 00:56:21 and PEBBLE in PEBBLE 00:59:25 * ihope creates a parser called convertNewZealand 00:59:35 haha, what 00:59:39 oh -- welcome back 00:59:43 hm 00:59:45 Ello. :-) 00:59:55 It converts from unary to decimal with New Zealand. 00:59:57 is the unary->anything converter actually possible/easy in your subst lang? 01:00:03 It's certainly possible. 01:00:04 hahahaha 01:00:04 one second difference 01:00:18 so how does it utilize new zealand 01:00:40 By New including a Zealand if the string is "". 01:00:57 ...including New Zealand, I mean. 01:01:23 so what is a New Zealand 01:01:25 apart from a country 01:01:40 A backronym for "no zero". 01:01:57 And now for another regex mnemonic: "Look up there! It's money!" 01:02:10 I'm dumb. explain 01:02:22 (By the way, what regexps do you use? Custom?) 01:02:24 "" is converted to "" instead of "0". 01:02:30 Undefined, really. 01:02:39 ah 01:02:43 Though $ is a pretty important part of it. 01:04:21 Does your language have a way of putting anything to the screen? 01:04:35 A primitive or something, that does no substitutions, but has a side effect of output 01:04:44 It could easily be extended to include one. 01:05:03 Input as well. 01:05:32 Because you could make a program basically identical to fibonacci.b 01:05:41 bleach(): {/[ab]/; "w" + bleach()} 01:05:42 Writes out fibonacci numbers in decimal, one per line, until halted. 01:05:51 (With an invisible period on the end.) 01:05:58 ihope: what does that do? 01:06:07 It replaces a and b with w. 01:06:15 And... why. 01:06:22 ...and gives an error when it reaches the end of the string. 01:06:46 It was going to make input more friendly for convertNoZero, but I just realized it's actually completely unnecessary. 01:07:08 Just match . instead of w :-) 01:07:31 Well, I was thinking [ab]. 01:07:34 But yeah. 01:07:39 * ihope ponders 01:07:47 You want it to be generalized 01:07:53 I guess so. 01:08:05 since unary is just a way of encoding a string as its length, the actual contents is arbitary 01:08:27 * ihope nods 01:10:06 * ihope decides to go for little-endian increment 01:10:29 So what is your language called? 01:10:32 is it implemented? 01:11:11 No implementation. I think I'll call it Redivider. 01:11:26 It's really interesting, I might implement it :) 01:11:44 Should I finish the program or the spec first? 01:11:45 Does it have a spec or similar? I mean, defining regexps beyond the basics could be hard... 01:11:49 hahah 01:11:53 :-) 01:11:54 <1 second difference 01:12:01 and program! :) 01:12:10 Will do! 01:16:13 Is it okay if I use the word "guts" in the spec? :-P 01:16:28 Sure 01:16:29 :P 01:16:31 As in ::= "/" "/" 01:16:35 But I want to see the program first! 01:16:37 oh 01:16:40 as long as you define regexguts 01:16:41 ;) 01:16:42 Yes, I'm still doing that. 01:16:49 Pff, why would I do that? :-) 01:17:01 because otherwise i won't implement it, having no spec :P 01:17:08 i'm not going to use a third-party regexp spec 01:17:11 Okay. 01:17:14 that'd be inconsistant with other implementations! 01:17:19 I'll write my own minimalistic one, then. 01:17:22 think of all the regexp libs... you gotta define your own for portability ;) 01:17:28 just give it enough to be comfy for use 01:17:33 * ihope nods 01:17:41 Ranges, exclusion... 01:17:51 Plus /[]/, the regex that doesn't match. 01:17:53 there's not much to regexps 01:18:11 So is Redivide TC? 01:18:21 i doubt it, personally, but.. 01:18:34 I might try and write a bf interp in it. :) 01:18:46 Redivider is almost certainly TC. 01:18:48 hm, i think that would be possible 01:18:50 even simple 01:18:52 that would be cool :) 01:18:55 If http://pastebin.ca/679421 has no bugs, it is. 01:19:09 Of course. 01:19:11 But brainfuck = far more fun 01:19:12 ;) 01:19:46 very crazy suggestion for regexps 01:20:08 means "anything function x matches" 01:20:20 this would make, e.g. parsing brainfuck braces trivial 01:20:24 That sounds rather complicating. 01:20:25 though perhaps it's too bloated in your mind ;) 01:20:35 i don't know, it'd just make a lot of stuff you could think of easier 01:20:49 This language is inspired by Parsec, which is a completely ordinary combinator parser as far as I can tell :-) 01:21:28 Well, yeah, but with parsec you could insert random haskell in the middle 01:21:33 Something like (i don't know haskell) 01:21:44 match "abc" ++ callParser ++ match "def" 01:21:48 with these regexps, you can't 01:22:02 I think you can still do that here. 01:22:20 Hmm 01:22:20 how? 01:22:32 /abc/ + parser() + /def/ will work and return "abcwhatevertheparserreturneddef". 01:23:04 oh, cool 01:23:04 so 01:23:11 /[/ + bf() + /]/ 01:23:11 First it runs /abc/, which consumes the abc and returns "abc", then it runs parser(), which consumes something and returns something, then it runs /def/, which consumes the def and returns "def". 01:23:14 should parse braces? 01:23:18 right? 01:23:22 Yup. 01:23:46 If bf() parses "foo" into "bar", that'll parse "[foo]" into "[bar]". 01:24:23 If you don't like the brackets around it, then there's {/[/; x <- bf(); /]/; x} 01:24:29 hmm 01:24:35 what is a function that parses nested parens with anything in 01:24:36 i.e. 01:24:36 That parses "[foo]" into "bar". 01:24:53 (abc) ((ab)c) (a(b)(c((d)))) parses, (a etc don't 01:25:05 More importantly: some way to get the inner contents 01:25:09 (abc) returns abc 01:25:14 ((ab)c) returns (ab)c 01:25:22 but, of course, ONLY if the whole thing has well-formed braces 01:25:25 Is it possible? 01:25:26 What does (ab)c return? 01:25:32 Possible, yes. Probably easy, too. 01:25:33 ihope: ab 01:25:35 well 01:25:37 i guess that's undefined 01:25:45 but yeah ab 01:25:52 i just mean, if you can do that, then you can parse brainfuck 01:26:13 check(): /(/ + check() + /)/ + check() | /[^()]/ + check() 01:26:16 if you have "code[SENTINEL]tape", then you can run a brainfuck program trivially, iirc 01:26:19 ...with that invisible period. 01:26:28 That just checks for well-formedness. 01:27:08 grab(): {/(/; x <- check(); /)/; x} 01:27:13 Cool. 01:27:17 ...period again, gah. 01:27:21 So what are these "x"s etc? 01:27:28 Just arbitary variables that are "" by default? 01:27:36 By default, they're errors. 01:27:40 Otherwise, yes. 01:27:46 So how does grab(): {/(/; x <- check(); /)/; x} work 01:27:48 They always hold strings, never parsers. 01:28:23 It runs /(/ and throws away the result, then runs check() and stores the result in x, then runs /)/ and throws away the result, then runs x and returns the result. 01:28:31 A string is the same thing as a parser that does nothing and returns that string. 01:28:35 But what is x 01:28:40 It should be an error 01:28:43 x is a local variable, I guess. 01:28:43 You did not define it 01:28:55 x <- check() is what introduces it. 01:28:56 <- is append right? 01:29:09 No, it stores. 01:29:12 Ah 01:29:14 How do you append? 01:29:15 Or creates or some such. 01:29:17 x <- x + y? 01:29:21 <- is obviously borrowed from haskell's do notation 01:29:32 I guess you can do it that way. You might as well do z <- x + y, though. 01:29:49 These behave pretty much exactly the same way as in Haskell's do notation, yeah. 01:29:56 Why, ihope? Why have unneeded vars? 01:30:20 Less confusion, I guess, if you find that sort of thing confusing. 01:31:53 I think this is right, apart from the fact that it outputs the numbers all smooshed together if output doesn't automatically add a newline: http://pastebin.ca/755940 01:32:25 a few questions 01:32:43 is main a special name? or is it just what you called it as a convention? and, what's []? 01:33:03 There's not necessarily anything special about it. 01:33:24 foo()[blah] makes foo parse blah; otherwise, it parses from whatever it's called in. 01:33:32 Could you like put it in the spec? "If there is a main function, it is called at runtime, otherwise you are dropped in to a REPL?" 01:33:39 The "current string", I guess. 01:33:44 Sure. 01:33:48 foo()[blah]... why not just foo(blah)? 01:33:53 I can't see the ()s being used for anything else there 01:34:13 Plus it would look nicer. 01:34:41 They're for when you want parsers to take parameters other than the current string. 01:35:07 so foo(extra)[str]? 01:35:13 If so, may I humbly suggest just foo(str, extra)? 01:35:25 Good idea, yes. 01:35:30 :) 01:35:37 Though I rather feel foo(extra, str) would be better. 01:35:46 Although... What if you want extra args, but default string? 01:35:54 Maybe some kind of seperator 01:35:57 foo(str | extra) 01:36:05 no, no... that won't work nicely 01:36:06 hmm 01:36:13 how to resolve that? 01:36:22 Extra arguments but the default string would just be foo(extra). 01:36:37 How can it tell the difference between foo(str) and foo(extra)? 01:37:04 Each parser has a parameter number. If it's given that many parameters, then they're all actually parameters; if it's given one more, the last one is the input string. 01:37:28 Parser with 1 parameter number: 01:37:30 foo(str) 01:37:34 I just want to pass it a special string. 01:38:03 If foo's parameter number is 1, then str is the parameter. 01:38:16 Right! BUt I don't want it to be. 01:38:21 If foo's parameter number is 0, then str is the input string. 01:38:24 I just want to pass it an extra string, with no extra parameters. 01:38:29 Foo's parameter number is 1. 01:38:31 Tell me how. 01:38:41 If foo's parameter number is 1, then use foo(parameter, inputstring). 01:38:49 I don't want to give it an extra parameter 01:39:03 If foo's parameter number is 1, it must take a parameter. 01:39:09 Ah, ok. 01:39:12 No optional parameters 01:39:14 Right. 01:39:46 If you like those optional parameters, go the Haskell Way and use foo("J" + parameter) or foo("N") :-) 01:39:47 I suggest making inputstring the first 01:40:02 It feels like it's what the parser is being called /with/ 01:40:06 Everything else is just additional info 01:40:15 Also, it makes sense. 01:40:25 I sort of have the opposite opinion for the same reason. 01:40:28 For increasing parameter num: foo(str), foo(str,1), foo(str,1,2) etc 01:40:41 str - the main part of the parser, it's what its actually parsing - moves, in your smantics 01:40:43 which is not nice 01:41:19 Well, if parameter numbers can vary, you need some way of differentiating a parameter from an input string. 01:41:32 First parameter: string 01:41:38 Rest: parameters, function dependena 01:42:01 Function what? 01:42:13 dependant 01:42:21 The string is there regardless of the function 01:42:25 The rest is stuff added on "after the tail" 01:42:36 The input string's being optional is sort of necessary. 01:42:36 It makes so much more sense for the string to be first. 01:43:27 You need some way of making reference to the current string... or maybe this could be done without the current string stuff? Hmm. 01:43:42 look: 01:43:47 func() # current string 01:43:54 oh 01:43:55 wait 01:43:59 i get you 01:44:04 you can call a function with a parameter 01:44:06 but with the current string 01:44:10 OK, you're right, yours is better 01:44:19 Hmm. 01:44:22 Some way to mark it 01:44:23 How about 01:44:32 [abc] means "abc as string argument" 01:44:38 and can be anywhere, but is generally at the start 01:44:46 for a function with parameter value 2: 01:44:49 func(1,2) # normal 01:44:53 func([str], 1, 2) # using str 01:45:07 How would varying numbers of parameters work, anyway? 01:45:12 They wouldn't 01:45:15 I'm not talkng about that 01:45:18 But, 01:45:22 func(1,2) and func(1,[str],2) would work 01:45:28 i.e. [] just mean "string argument" 01:45:34 Seems a little pointless. 01:45:34 func2(str) # I guess, for parameter value 0, the []s would be optional, for nicety 01:45:52 so, progression: func(str) func([str],1) func([str],1,2)... 01:46:09 ihope: Well, it's nicer than allowing one additional argument. Think of the bugs - it's just not obvious at a glance 01:46:28 * ihope ponders 01:46:41 I think it's nicer, IMO 01:46:42 Just cleaner. 01:46:44 More free-form 01:46:45 Well, the input string is quite a bit like just another parameter. 01:47:02 Yes, but: 01:47:06 func(1,2,oops-an-additional-arg) 01:47:11 That could so easily be a bug. 01:47:15 And explicitness is better, I'd say 01:47:18 Indeed, it could. 01:47:29 func(1,2,oops) would be an error - "too many arguments, perhaps you need []?" 01:47:38 func(1,2,[oops]) would do what you intend 01:47:43 Though I like the look of semicolons better. 01:47:51 (Probably [] would by convention go at the start, though - func([oops], 1, 2)) 01:47:56 func(1, 2, oops;) and func(1; 2, oops) and such. 01:47:57 So, I think that'd be good. 01:48:03 but [oops] at the start or end by convention? 01:48:11 ihope: Well, it just seems not noticable enough to me 01:48:25 Hmm... 01:48:40 "It's an esoteric language; get over it"? :-P 01:48:51 Esoteric language != unplanned language 01:49:02 I think that [] here makes more sense 01:49:13 OK, How about this 01:49:20 How about func(1, 2; oops] and func[oops; 1, 2)? 01:49:23 Instead of func()[blah] 01:49:29 func[blah]() 01:49:32 or just func[blah] 01:49:33 yeah 01:49:34 so: 01:49:36 func[blah] 01:49:37 func() 01:49:41 func[blah](1,2) 01:49:47 Ah, I like that. 01:49:55 func[blah] would be sugar for func[blah](), since the former looks nicer 01:50:01 * ihope nods 01:50:09 Though maybe func[blah]() would be nicer, as its more consistant - func[blah] is the parser that matches on blah 01:50:31 Hmm 01:50:42 Well, there are no first-class parsers here. 01:50:46 output[reverse[unary()]] output[reverse[unary()]()]() 01:50:49 The former is definately nicer 01:50:50 OK 01:50:52 Yeah. 01:51:00 a[b] is a[b]() 01:51:05 a() is a[current_str]() 01:51:07 Hey, maybe we could get rid of () entirely. 01:51:12 I mean, make it optional. 01:51:14 a[b](c,d) is what you expect 01:51:21 a(b,c)[d] is an error 01:51:22 And how? 01:51:28 a[b],c,d? Ugly. 01:51:36 I think the above is probably the best 01:51:40 I mean just (), not (stuff). 01:51:49 No foo(); just foo. 01:51:49 run(): {x <- step(); output()[reverse()[unary()]]; run()[x]}. 01:51:49 -> 01:51:56 output[reverse[unary]] 01:51:57 run(): {x <- step(); output[reverse[unary()]]; run[x]}. 01:52:01 Hmm 01:52:08 ihope: I think in that case () provides more information 01:52:13 Because, otherwise 01:52:17 You could mistake it for a variable. 01:52:25 Yes, that's true. 01:52:36 I'll rewrite your paste using that proposed syntax 01:53:04 http://pastebin.ca/755956 01:53:10 IMO, it looks really clean and easy to understand. Very nice. 01:53:36 Likewise, func[a](b,c) follows naturally from that syntax. 01:53:38 Yes, you're right. 01:53:40 * ihope nods 01:53:41 OK. 01:53:49 So, can I expect a spec tomorrow maybe? ;) 01:53:50 I'm going now 01:53:57 Yup. Bye. 01:53:59 Very interesting langugae 01:54:05 It's esoteric but looks really easy to program in too 01:54:09 * ihope nods 01:54:16 OK. Leave me a memo with MemoServ if you get it done :) 01:54:20 Will do. 01:55:20 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:25:58 -!- tokigun has joined. 04:51:12 THIN FUNCTIONS WILL BE THE DEATH OF ME 04:52:52 GAUNT ZOMBIE FUNCTIONS, LOOKING FOR BRAINS... 04:56:22 Unfortunately, I believe that the solution is to abandon my dictum that all blocks are functions :( 04:56:50 You *could* do it as Tcl does. . . 04:57:08 Provide an "uplevel" command, which executes something up a level in the stack. 04:57:21 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:57:40 Wow that's gross >_> 04:58:19 that's not very higher-order. a function should not necessarily know where it was called. 04:58:23 I guess it's not Plofy, though. 04:58:28 Mind you, it's better than thick and thin :P 04:59:52 But not much better. 05:01:51 hm... isn't a thick function essentially one that binds its escape continuation to return? 05:19:05 That's a truly bizarre way of looking at it :P 05:19:46 A thick function is the point in the call stack that a return will drop do. 05:33:48 alternately, a thick function is one which catches the return exception. you could generalize that. 05:33:57 and good night. 05:34:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:34:38 Oooh, that's a good way to think about it. 05:34:43 Returns become throws with special syntax. 05:35:01 Thick functions are just functions with implicit try/catch blocks. 05:35:18 Now, how can I use that to get rid of thick functions :P 06:58:56 -!- staplegun_ has joined. 06:59:47 -!- staplegun_ has changed nick to i4nic8. 07:00:55 howzit 07:03:24 -!- i4nic8 has quit (Client Quit). 07:03:44 -!- i4nic8 has joined. 07:05:10 piss 07:17:54 -!- i4nic8 has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 07:26:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:26:50 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 10:20:10 Hm. 10:26:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:26:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:32:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:32:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:09:34 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 11:21:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:49:14 -!- jix has joined. 11:49:24 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:49:51 -!- jix has joined. 12:15:15 o 12:37:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:56:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:58:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:08:29 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:12:55 GregorR: that try/catch idea for thick functions is good but it doesn't help you vanquish thick/thin functions 15:13:25 Hence, " Now, how can I use that to get rid of thick functions :P" 15:13:52 :P 15:13:59 in fact it probably complicates it 15:14:07 because you introduce syntactic sugar etc and even more thick/thin semantics 15:14:28 ok, show me a recursive factorial again so i can see thick vs thin and i'll try and figure out a way to resolve it 15:16:23 :) 15:16:24 http://www.pastebin.ca/756432 15:23:32 GregorR: make it always run the program with every single combination of thick and thin functions at the same time, and introduce another, declarative, language, you have to use with the actual plof code to tell the interpreter what the correct behavior is; it can then resolve the right combination of thick/thin functions automatically 15:23:38 you're welcome. 15:23:50 wow 15:24:25 so 15:24:27 {} = thin 15:24:32 :{} = thick 15:34:32 right? GregorR? 15:34:55 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:36:16 pikhq: pebble.bfm will be called Calculus ;) I'm working on it no 15:36:17 w 15:36:20 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:48:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 15:48:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:57:39 pikhq: how does eval work? does it run at compile-time? 16:00:02 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:24:18 * GregorR reappears. 16:24:20 ehird`: Yes. 16:24:21 oklopol: No. 16:24:32 :D 16:24:42 GregorR: How about 16:24:49 If {} is seen in the context of an assignment 16:24:54 It's thick 16:24:56 Otherwise, it's thin 16:25:03 You still have thick/thin, but it's internal only. 16:25:05 The first argument to 'if' is thick. 16:25:14 it does not need to be, though. 16:25:26 Yes it does, it returns a value that 'if' needs to catch. 16:25:40 wait, is this a new language? 16:25:44 Yeah, but {value} works 16:25:47 You don't need to use "return" 16:25:50 RodgerTheGreat: plof is not new 16:25:59 oh, ok- false alarm 16:26:08 RodgerTheGreat: there is a new language though! 16:26:13 :D 16:26:22 ehird`: Well, in Plof2, returning and evaluating to a value are identical, but I suppose that doesn't need to be the case :) 16:26:34 GregorR: Exactly. 16:26:35 So, lemme mull over cases where that might be wrong. 16:26:49 GregorR: return will zoop down the stack, but a value at the end will just evaluate to it. 16:26:55 Right 16:27:11 "zoop" being of course the technical term. 16:27:17 RodgerTheGreat: It's ihope's. It's called Redivide, and it's a turing complete substitution language. Fibonacci numbers: http://pastebin.ca/755956 16:27:48 http://pastebin.ca/679421 SK calculus implementation 16:27:53 Actually 16:27:53 no 16:27:57 that syntax is the old version 16:28:03 I'l update it (the SK calculus one) 16:28:03 interesting 16:28:24 http://pastebin.ca/756513 new SK calculus 16:28:37 to explain () vs []: 16:28:50 [x] means "parse string x", it defaults to the current string if not speciified 16:29:01 you can also pass extra parameters (if defined in the function) with (a,b...) 16:29:08 but, you cannot omit both [] and () 16:29:35 so, parser() for no arguments, parser(a) for one argument, etc. or with a different string: parser[str] (note no () - it looks nicer), parser[str](a), parser[str](a,b) etc 16:29:48 apart from that, the rest is pretty self-evident I think 16:30:25 zomg halloween 16:30:30 main(), of course, is run with an empty string by default if it's there, when interpreting/running the compiled version 16:30:34 if it's not there, it drops into a REPL. 16:30:42 A full spec is being written by ihope, it should be ready sometime today 16:30:46 But I thik it's very interesting. 16:37:46 bsmntbombdood: BOO! 16:37:53 eek! 16:38:01 :O 16:58:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:11:34 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:15:19 -!- jix has joined. 17:26:56 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:27:06 -!- jix has joined. 18:03:05 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 18:09:09 -!- jix has joined. 18:58:49 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:33:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 19:55:33 lalaalalalalala 19:57:03 i wish i could fly 20:07:19 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:27:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:37:26 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 20:37:33 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:23:45 oi 21:23:47 er 21:23:50 typo 21:40:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 21:42:18 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:44:16 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 21:45:45 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:00:37 -!- ihope has joined. 22:03:25 -!- ihope has quit (Client Quit). 22:12:33 -!- ihope has joined. 22:15:24 Ello! 22:15:34 !ollE 22:15:38 Huh? 22:16:19 ihope: yay 22:16:20 you're here 22:16:31 Yup. 22:16:40 any work on the redivide spec? :) 22:17:46 I'm still working on it. 22:17:48 woo 22:18:00 RodgerTheGreat said that redivide was interesting earlier today :P 22:18:16 Yay. 22:18:41 one comment though 22:19:14 output[str] gets away from non-purity by saying "Does no substitutions. (In an interactive interpreter, this is printed as debug output)" sneakily, 22:19:17 hah, i said it was interested before it was famous! 22:19:20 but what about input()? 22:19:31 *interesting 22:19:35 oklopol: I was interested in it when ihope first mentioned it ages ago 22:19:38 I just didn't mention it at the time :P 22:19:43 heh 22:20:07 ehird`: can't input() be the same way as output()? 22:20:24 ihope: Well, no, because it has to return the string from input. 22:20:41 ihope: You can't get away from non-purity there, unlike my above output[] definition 22:20:53 Oh, right. 22:21:02 Who cares about purity? :-P 22:21:12 Evaluation order already matters. 22:21:18 Well, if it's a substitution language it's expected that you know what's happening to the program :P 22:21:37 You know what I mean? It's like a list of rules... putting non-purity in there (that isn't carefully worded) could damage that 22:21:44 Hmm... 22:22:23 I still don't think there's much of a problem if evaluation order already matters. 22:23:25 I guess 22:24:50 multithreaded parsing! 22:25:00 ihope: please add thread support <3 22:25:07 NO! 22:25:14 ihope: you should at least allow multi threading 22:25:33 but 22:25:35 implicit 22:25:43 so an implementation can run it concurrently! :D 22:25:50 In a way that doesn't affect semantics, you mean? 22:25:53 hmm, how exactly would that be possible :P 22:26:01 ihope: yeah! 22:26:22 the fastest parser gets the string! 22:26:32 foo(bar(),baz()) 22:26:40 Evaluate bar() and baz() simultaneously if possible. 22:27:21 hmm, it's pretty hard to evaluate two parsers simultaneously unless you know how much they'll gorge already 22:28:14 ihope: yeah# 22:28:42 since there's no first-class parsers there's another easy thing 22:28:45 forbid it if IO is done 22:29:02 (no first class parsers = you can just check for output/input in them) 22:34:02 Hmm. Is it okay if .|*()[ are the only special characters outside brackets and \^-] the only special characters inside brackets for regexes? 22:34:30 Um, I guess 22:34:32 :P 22:34:37 You need \ everywhere, though 22:34:42 if you can't escape something in any place, fix that 22:35:09 ...er, yes, \ outside brackets as well. 22:35:51 Now lemme take 37.5 moments to reboot. 22:37:15 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:38:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:39:51 37.5 moments = 56.25 minutes 22:39:57 Apparently it takes ihope nearly an hour to reboot. 22:40:07 what? 22:40:13 (9:46:17 PM) ihope: Now lemme take 37.5 moments to reboot. 22:40:16 (9:50:17 PM) GregorR: 37.5 moments = 56.25 minutes 22:40:26 that's not nearly an hour 22:40:59 he may have meant moment in the sense of rotation physics. maybe he passed out from it. 22:41:07 heh 22:41:09 :P 22:41:20 ehird`: How is 56.25 minutes not nearly an hour? 22:41:24 It's only 3.75 minutes short 22:41:38 GregorR: ... ihope said blah blah reboot at 9:46 22:41:42 you said that at 9:50 22:41:46 4min != 1hr 22:42:10 ihope isn't back yet .. 22:42:22 yes but it has not been nearly an hour 22:42:44 "Moment" used to be a defined unit of time measurement being 1.5 minutes. 22:42:48 37.5 moments = 56.25 minutes 22:48:30 -!- ihope has joined. 22:48:36 Okay, so maybe that was actually 387.98 moments. 22:48:58 That's slow even for my Windows machine. 22:48:58 GregorR: defines a moment as about 1.5 minutes 22:49:19 Oh, I see. 22:50:05 You calculate how many moments that actually was. 22:51:57 From now on, I will assume that all users choose their nickname in the same way that I do. 22:52:14 e.g. Ihop Erickson and Ehird `-$*@/\\\ 22:52:52 hah 22:52:58 Actually my nick is ehird 22:53:03 ehird` is just because ehird got stolen :( 22:53:06 so Ehir Dick 22:53:10 or something 22:53:14 Well, then Ehir Dickinson :P 22:53:18 At least make it a last name ;) 22:53:25 ehird`'s real name is not particularly secret 22:53:25 but I am a dick. 22:53:26 Erickson and Dickinson? 22:53:27 (Which apparently means ending it with "son") 22:53:30 oerjan: :P 22:53:45 oerjan: how come? i haven't told anyone in here it, i don't think... 22:53:49 (it's Elliott Hird anyway) 22:53:58 What's your obsession with ck and son? 22:54:09 -!- ihope has changed nick to IhopE. 22:54:49 -!- ehird` has changed nick to ehirD. 22:54:52 -!- ehirD has changed nick to EhirD. 22:54:56 Damnit 22:55:12 Van Von O'McSonovichstein 22:55:13 -!- EhirD has changed nick to EhirD`. 22:55:25 oerjan: so how is it not particularly secret? :P 22:55:33 Maybe it's Ehir Donald `-$*@/\\\. 22:55:42 EhirD`: well i did know it didn't i? 22:56:10 oerjan: i think so, but how? :P 22:56:12 it's not in my whois atm 22:56:21 maybe it was before 22:56:27 probably 22:56:40 Your name is purple? 22:56:46 My. 22:56:57 no 22:57:03 pidgin->libpurple 22:57:05 default name = purple 22:57:16 GregorR: So what is RodgerTheGreat's name? 22:57:36 * RodgerTheGreat grins 22:58:21 Rodger Therrickson Handlebrock Entrepreneur Gullible Russell Ensonava Aeota Therrickson? 22:58:50 "Gullible" = awesome name :P 22:59:01 "Wow. My name isn't in the dictionary" 22:59:12 "Gullible is one of my middle names" 22:59:15 "What's your name?" "Gullible." "Really? Wow!" "No, gotcha bitch!" 22:59:24 "...actually, yes it is." 22:59:26 haha 22:59:29 EhirD`: hm, you actually don't have a presence on the esolangs wiki? 22:59:39 thought that might have been it 22:59:43 Rodger Thomas Harry Elliot Graetz-Russell-Erickson-Aritz-Thomson! 22:59:58 I'm totally renaming myself Gregor Van Von O'McFitzsonovichstein 23:00:06 believe it or not, my name in real life *isn't even Rodger!* 23:00:14 RodgerTheGreat: WHAT 23:00:17 It's Susan. 23:00:23 wait 23:00:26 * EhirD` is gullible 23:00:32 ... i think? 23:00:36 Or Rodger Tokigun Helios EgoBot Gregor-Reddak-Ehird-Anmaster-Tritonio, which would be very weird. 23:00:47 IhopE: indeed 23:00:50 * EhirD` has a reflex that coils on sight of "Elliot" and corrects people to "Elliott" 23:00:55 RodgerTheGreat: of course not, your real name is Spot 23:01:00 But it's "Elliot"! 23:01:06 my name is Elliott 23:01:07 :< 23:01:14 Well, too bad! :-P 23:01:46 today's special VISUAL CLUE! 23:01:46 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1190852142-understanding.png 23:01:51 i knew EhirD`'s name. 23:02:04 yes but that's because its littered in various code and i might have told you 23:02:35 EhirD`: maybe i got it from your code too 23:02:44 i doubt it, though 23:02:48 i haven't shown all that much code here 23:02:50 that was my second theory anyway 23:05:08 EhirD`: perhaps, although i'm pretty sure i've just deduced it from your behavior, just like i did with GregorR 23:05:24 you deduced Elliott Hird from my behaviour? 23:05:31 well, of course you could deduce E Hird 23:05:34 But Elliott? i doubt it 23:05:42 RodgerTheGreat: olds! 23:05:50 olds? 23:05:53 EhirD`: no no i'm pretty sure 23:05:57 i mean, i've seen that :P 23:06:08 I'm aware 23:06:10 oklopol: james randi might want to giv e you $1mil 23:06:22 fine, have some doodles from my statistics class today: http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1193866302-sket2.png 23:06:25 i'm pretty sure being able to determine names from behaviour is psychic 23:06:26 http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1193866315-sket1.png 23:06:26 i don't like randy men 23:07:16 hehe, a guy in my class does that too 23:07:22 IhopE: how's the spec going? 23:07:37 if there's a pause in taking notes, he draws a random picture 23:08:21 as you can see, I don't really wait for a pause 23:08:33 what do you mean? 23:08:47 you use both hands and take notes while drawing? 23:08:52 EhirD`: I'll post it in exactly one moment. 23:08:52 or he omits notes 23:08:56 I generally don't take notes 23:08:56 IhopE: :D 23:09:02 What I have, I mean. Not the whole thing. 23:09:13 i'm pretty sure i saw a graph in there! :) 23:09:31 because I find statistics extremely uninteresting, considering how many times I've done it in various classes over the years 23:10:12 statistics does have an ugly sound to it. 23:10:25 anyway, i'll sleep for a moment now, you all have fun -> 23:10:35 I have oodles of fun in my CS classes 23:10:56 Or Rodger Tokigun Helios EgoBot Gregor-Reddak-Ehird-Anmaster-Tritonio, which would be very weird. <-- huh? 23:11:08 AnMaster: don't you think that would be a very weird name? 23:11:09 AnMaster: hello 23:11:22 IhopE, stupid highlights 23:11:23 hate them 23:11:35 anyway yes 23:11:45 IhopE, none of these are real names 23:11:46 so what? 23:12:12 GregorR mentioned pretending everyone's nick was derived the same way as his. 23:12:34 why is stdcall right to left with arguments ? 23:12:44 Gregor isn't a real name? :) 23:12:44 bartw: because stdcall is evil 23:12:52 could have fooled me 23:12:54 is it ? 23:13:12 GregorR mentioned pretending everyone's nick was derived the same way as his. <-- and how is it? 23:13:22 mine IS based on my initials (AN) yes 23:13:28 First name, last initial. 23:13:52 my name is obviously Oerja Nilsson. Sorry for fooling you all about my gender so long. 23:13:54 my real name is oklovonimol polokolmonopotol 23:14:08 Ehir Dickinson 23:14:18 oerjan, hm, sounds Scandinavian 23:14:25 * AnMaster is from Sweden 23:14:39 Norwegian here 23:14:42 ah 23:14:50 oerjan: YOU FAKED YOUR PHOTO?!12567862874623784234 23:14:51 oerjan: Gotta tell you, "Oerja" doesn't strike me as male or female :P 23:14:54 oerjan, still don't know gender of name 23:15:03 EhirD`: no i'm just very ugly. 23:15:12 RodgerTheGreat: nice drawings 23:15:25 thanks 23:15:26 oerjan, wait, "oe" O with / in? 23:15:35 oerjan, same as Swedish örjan then? 23:15:37 luckily im BartW 23:15:41 then male 23:15:42 AnMaster: yeah 23:15:43 GregorR: well if it was norwegian it would be female. The only exception i recall is "Ola" 23:15:54 AnMaster: yep 23:16:04 (ending in -a that is) 23:16:53 -!- IhopE has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 23:17:27 my name can be found in the source code of the brainfuck interpreter in bash I coded: http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/get/bashfuck/head/bashfuck 23:17:32 optimizing, using byte code 23:17:35 yes I'm insane 23:17:49 I'm also working on a modular irc bot in bash (http://envbot.org) 23:17:50 In bash? 8-D 23:17:53 That = awesome 23:18:15 I imagine you have a library of functions that turns bash into a bit more of a general-purpose language? 23:18:16 GregorR, still, just compiling LostKing.b to byte code = about 10 minutes on my amd64 23:18:16 yeah, he is insane 23:18:20 * GregorR has always enjoyed writing shell scripts :) 23:18:22 i was about to say 23:18:27 his lostkng.b performance is terrible 23:18:34 EhirD`, yes indeed it is 23:18:44 GregorR: and no, iirc 23:18:46 he just uses bash 23:18:48 if someone can make it faster, please branch it 23:19:45 "We're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know that I am mad?" asked Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 23:20:04 GregorR, I do have some stuff I reuse sometimes, stack functions, associative array emulation 23:20:13 ah yes -- quoting alice in wonderland. The post-ironic hippy way to be cool on the internet. 23:20:14 but for bashfuck I didn't reuse anything 23:20:22 EhirD`, ahahaha 23:20:57 I guess quoting Terry Pratchett doesn't work? 23:21:09 no, that's the post-hippy ironic way 23:21:35 EhirD`, eh? I got all Terry Pratchett books (except a few short stories that are out of print) 23:21:54 EhirD`, and what is the post-hippy post-ironic way? 23:21:59 actually i am quoting Narbonic, which quoted Alice in Wonderland. 23:22:01 killing yourself 23:22:05 sort of anyhow :) 23:22:09 EhirD`, I see 23:22:21 oerjan, "Narbonic"? 23:22:44 my favorite mad science webcomic so far 23:22:55 link? 23:23:04 (hm what is a "mad science webcomic"?) 23:23:05 AnMaster: google gives it as #1 result 23:23:14 * AnMaster just reads user friendly 23:23:22 http://www.narbonic.com/ 23:23:28 for the last 5 years or so 23:23:35 pff, user friendly 23:24:13 EhirD`, what? I used to read that nethack one too, dudly or whatever the name was 23:24:53 oerjan, there is no strip on the page? 23:24:54 ?? 23:25:00 or do I have to enable java script 23:25:02 I hope not 23:25:25 no JS there 23:25:31 sheesh, you could just view source 23:25:35 and also stop being JS-paranoid 23:25:36 AnMaster: the webcomic is finished, read the archive 23:25:40
23:25:42 EhirD`, ? 23:25:51 alright then 23:25:53 noscript tells me there is java script 23:25:54 :P 23:26:16 disable noscript becaues it's a stupid, paranoid extension with no real practical value 23:26:30 GregorR, btw envbot's performance is very good 23:26:41 EhirD`, what? I use tor when I browse 23:26:44 I AM paranoid 23:26:46 oh right, director's cut rerun. i haven't read that. 23:26:54 :| hah, tor 23:27:02 i guess you wear a tinfoil hat too 23:27:46 heh, today's rerun is pretty good 23:27:56 i guess you wear a tinfoil hat too <-- no? 23:34:24 Not Invented Here strikes again! 23:34:29 I have found myself writing a code editor. 23:34:54 AnMaster: does http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic/series.php?view=archive&chapter=9763 work better? it's the first page of the archive. 23:37:23 whoa, AnMaster 23:37:44 oerjan, yes it does 23:37:46 bsmntbombdood, what? 23:37:52 nothing 23:38:10 bsmntbombdood, yes I coded brainfuck interpreter in bash. Yes I'm mad. Do you want anything else? :P 23:38:29 writing a brainfuck interpreter in bash doesn't make you mad around here 23:38:36 http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/get/bashfuck/head/bashfuck and http://envbot.org is proof enought I'm mad 23:38:57 bsmntbombdood, using bytecode and optimiztions in the interpreter AND coding it in bash IS mad 23:39:04 writing bash in brainfuck, that would make you mad 23:39:09 bsmntbombdood: haha 23:39:18 mad for doing the impossible 23:39:53 impossible is nothing 23:40:36 bsmntbombdood, what about bash to C translator coded in bash? 23:40:48 possibly 23:44:39 wow 23:44:40 wxPython is nice 23:49:54 mad science webcomics, eh? How about Phil Foglio's Girl Genius? (http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1193870414-idee.png) 23:50:32 RodgerTheGreat: reading that too :) 23:51:32 among other defunct/ended ones: Casey and Andy, A Miracle of Science 23:53:13 lmao. "..It heartens me to look ahead and see the bright future each and every one of you will create, using your disciplines to improve our world. Except for the computer-science majors. They're more likely to perpetrate evil."