< 1196555192 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1196555260 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196556627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :competing with your own game ai's is always disappointing, if you win, your ai sucks, if you lose, you suck < 1196556680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you win, you suck. If you lose, you suck. < 1196556681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end. < 1196556704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1196556721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the half-empty glass < 1196556736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1196556742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glass that's just too big. < 1196557279 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you solve the game and make it so that the AI literally cannot lose, it's different. If you win, you suck, if you lose, you're brilliant. < 1196557769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1196557783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're solving something too damned simple. < 1196557788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tic-Tac-Toe) < 1196557804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, no matter what you do, you suck: who the hell bothers solving something that simple? :p < 1196557821 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to beat all the other kids at tic-tac-toe < 1196557823 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i was so smart < 1196557855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be able to force a tie or win. < 1196557865 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i mean < 1196557876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if both sides have perfect play, tie is the best that can be done) < 1196557935 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(duh) < 1196557938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never considered tic-tac-toe a game < 1196557953 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can force a tie or win in nim too :)))) < 1196557959 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray for me! < 1196557964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nim? < 1196557967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider it a trivial game. < 1196557968 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can force a tie or win in vim. < 1196557975 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nim is a trivial game < 1196557985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can you do that in Emacs? < 1196558030 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1196558060 0 :chuck!n=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1196559155 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1196561905 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196562317 0 :puzzlet__!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196562609 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1196562689 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(0) = 0; \lim_{x->\infty} f(x) = 1 < 1196562691 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's f? < 1196562917 0 :puzzlet__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196562921 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196562935 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1196563254 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 - 1/(x + 1) < 1196563354 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any others? < 1196563445 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196563446 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196564061 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196564066 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196564354 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1196564626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there any others? < 1196564634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an uncountable number in fact < 1196564655 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i found a good one < 1196564667 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-1/(sqrt(x)/n + 1) < 1196564798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 - exp(-x) is another simple one < 1196564993 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x)=x/(x-1) < 1196565047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dblog: not defined in 1 < 1196565047 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for that matter, f(x)=x/(x+c) where c is any nonzero constant. < 1196565060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc i mean < 1196565078 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm actually < 1196565107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c=1 gives bsmntbombdood's original if you rewrite a bit < 1196565121 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196565130 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Was there a criterion that said the function had to be total? < 1196565147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1196565152 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous in [0, \infty] < 1196565160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, continuous < 1196565170 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1196565172 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Then we have to use a positive value for c. < 1196565203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say there were _more_ of them than the number of reals, but continuity whittles that down to equal number < 1196565309 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(2*x) = x * sqrt(2 - x**2) < 1196565344 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there one that satisfies that condition too? < 1196565361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what condition? < 1196565384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(2*x) = x * sqrt(2 - x**2) < 1196565427 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a condition and not a definition? < 1196565429 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1196565456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say it's a definition, which means there is only one f, although a definition is sort of a condition too < 1196565461 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1196565500 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1196565508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, that one is imaginary for big x < 1196565512 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to say. < 1196565553 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196565611 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :difficult < 1196565693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another one: arctan x / (pi/2) < 1196565808 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1196565855 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using this function to map values in [0, \infty) into [0, 1) to give to OR < 1196565885 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i would like f(2*x) to be the same as or(f(x), f(x)) < 1196565929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1196565935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1196565939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's or < 1196565990 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196565999 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or(a,b,n=1) = (a**n+b**n - a**n*b**n)**(1/n) < 1196566029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that n=1 makes little sense? < 1196566101 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n defaults to 1 if it's called with two arguments < 1196566125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh generalizing to n is obvious i think < 1196566175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so first, a+b-a*b < 1196566225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that associative? < 1196566256 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1196566281 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just do this recursively using that definition < 1196566283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+(b+c-b*c)-a*(b+c-b*c) = a+b+c -b*c-a*b-a*c +a*b*c < 1196566290 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using f(.0001) = .0001 or such < 1196566294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... a bell rings < 1196566336 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even too slow either < 1196566357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logarithms were originally calculated that way, i think < 1196566371 0 :puzzlet__!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196566457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course a+b-a*b = 1 - (1-a)*(1-b) < 1196566496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :de morgan's law essentially < 1196566524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so f(x) = 1 - exp(x) < 1196566551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 1 - exp(-x), which i think i already mentioned < 1196566574 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1196566582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = 1 - exp(-x) < 1196566612 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1196566623 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot damn < 1196566674 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for other n? < 1196566711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = (1 - exp(-x))^(1/n) i think < 1196566778 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1196566779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all your or's are equivalent to multiplication except for applying to a function to the initial arguments and its inverse to the result < 1196566860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just apply that inverse function to exp(-x) and you get f(x) < 1196566881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's incorrect about the n case? < 1196566945 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it grows way faster than it should < 1196566987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well you can replace ^n with any other invertible function in both or and f < 1196567009 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ^n? < 1196567011 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196567029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^n by the function and ^(1/n) by its inverse. all of them. < 1196567039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, ** < 1196567062 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1196567082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for g(x) = x**n you have < 1196567131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g(1 - or(a,b)) = g(1-a) * g(1-b) < 1196567137 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1196567146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get f(x) = g(1 - exp(-x)) < 1196567153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1196567169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get g(f(x)) = 1 - exp(-x) < 1196567188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just pick your g < 1196567249 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep still don't get it < 1196567257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how you choose it, it gets cancelled out and f(a+b) = or(f(a),f(b)) < 1196567281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i make an error somewhere? < 1196567327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1196567337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for n=1 < 1196567534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i got something inverted < 1196567567 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196567568 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196567690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or(f(a),f(b)) = 1 - (1 - f(a))*(1 - f(b)) = 1 - exp(-a)*exp(-b) = f(a+b) < 1196567739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for general n < 1196567757 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... < 1196567780 0 :puzzlet__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1196567793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1196567809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or(a,b) = (1 - (1 - a**n)*(1 - b**n))**(1/n) < 1196567834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) = (1 - exp(-x))**(1/n) < 1196567906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or(f(a),f(b)) = (1 - (1 - f(a)**n)*(1 - f(b)**n))**(1/n) = (1 - exp(-a)*exp(-b))**(1/n) = f(a+b) < 1196568201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a more abstract view... < 1196568290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, hard to draw categorical diagrams in irc < 1196568397 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm ok that works < 1196568402 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1196568415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway say you have some functions + : (A,A) -> A, or : (B,B) -> B and f : A -> B such that f(x+y) = or(f(x),f(y)) < 1196568450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(while A = B in our case it is simpler to understand by treating them as separate i think) < 1196568482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now add a function g : B -> C which happens to be invertible < 1196568493 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it < 1196568499 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks a lot < 1196568509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1196568541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1196569080 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1196577935 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196577935 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196582399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1196582400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1196582632 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196582645 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196585367 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1196585404 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host131-86-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1196586984 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1196589356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1196595339 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-233-071.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1196595574 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196597029 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196597037 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196597324 0 :Chadwick|359!n=Cts359@c-24-11-221-82.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1196598524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in case you read logs, A B ­­!A !B doesn't work as you said < 1196600015 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196600023 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196601928 0 :Chadwick|359!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196603774 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196605102 0 :johnl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey? < 1196605857 0 :DocWilco!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho? < 1196609086 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1196609096 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-233-070.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1196610459 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1196610649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what A B !A !B are you talking about? < 1196610684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it suffice to say !A == not A? < 1196610740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!A == inverse of A < 1196610742 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1196610757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay okay, rubik < 1196610787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have been imprecise < 1196610842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you be precise then? :P < 1196610857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anything which is not moved by either A or !A is unchanged by the combination, and similarly for B or !B < 1196610930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i'm pretty sure that's incorrect :\ < 1196610956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A is a simple twist, and B is another twist where the twists share an edge < 1196610986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the... blocks *only* B touches will change. < 1196610997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twist of a face? < 1196611001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1196611031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION picks his cube out of the drawer
< 1196611062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cube one edge forward then left forward twist, right forward twist, left backward twist, right backward twist < 1196611092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, i cannot turn those words into movements < 1196611097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1196611100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i had a webcam < 1196611109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don' < 1196611115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t know the real terms < 1196611129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right forward twist < 1196611147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant the you have your right hand on the forward-right side < 1196611175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh there is an annoying noise around < 1196611184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the cube is rotated so that one of the edges is pointing forward... err.. not sure it's an edge, actually, i mean the intersection of two faces... < 1196611229 0 :chuck!n=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1196611237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let's say i have a corner pointing toward me < 1196611246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a corner :D < 1196611255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the corner of 3 faces? < 1196611266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not of 2? < 1196611267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red face up, yellow down right, blue down left < 1196611274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1196611304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have it like that now < 1196611328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so which faces do i turn? < 1196611333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you rotate yellow cw, blue ccw, yellow ccw and blue cw < 1196611354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1196611374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the thingie that was below yellow < 1196611382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to the left of yellow < 1196611412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's not touched by B == the blue twist... < 1196611426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, then i misunderstood what you meant by B's domain < 1196611439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant what it'd have touched if applied as such. < 1196611464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a blue twist wouldn't have any effect on what's below yellow < 1196611491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the actual blocks and tiny faces moved < 1196611523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1196611524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it counts as touched by B if A moves it into position to be touched by B first < 1196611558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1196611608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much more realistic, but much less usable then :) < 1196611678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still usable < 1196611755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how much societies with infinite population have been studied < 1196611802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh messed up my cube < 1196611865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew got it < 1196611866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since every node can still only be connected to finitely many other nodes (given a finite number of dimensions for the world they move in, and a finite size of nodes [people]), they couldn't actually produce an infinite amount of products for everyone in finite time < 1196611889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to concentrate on the cube now that that came to mind xD < 1196611962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure sociologists are that interested in that kind of stuff... or they'd chosen something more theoretical to study in the first place < 1196611983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sociology is what i think it is < 1196611999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, i mean the correct thing if that's not it < 1196612004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do recall looking at some work on continuous populations < 1196612010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1196612013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1196612058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that is mostly to replace large populations with something calculus can work with, i think < 1196612148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that is a bit different < 1196612171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and a collaborator had some hope of connecting a generalization of measures we were working on to that theory. but nothing real came of it < 1196612252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalization of measures... measuring what? :D < 1196612309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only open and closed sets have measures in that theory < 1196612348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the union of two sets can have larger measure than the sum if they are not disjoint < 1196612357 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196612377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did his PhD on them < 1196612424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... isn't the complement of "open and closed sets" the empty set?? < 1196612426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-? < 1196612452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a set be other than open or closed < 1196612453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the sets that are either open or closed (or sometimes both) < 1196612464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, certainly < 1196612468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1196612490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now what's the "measure" of a set? < 1196612505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the rationals are a subset of the reals which is neither open nor closed < 1196612533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is it because it's infinite? < 1196612539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1196612540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1196612554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well partly, since all finite sets are closed in the reals < 1196612583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1196612594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e.g. a closed interval is not a finite set < 1196612597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in the reals", but not always? < 1196612621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1196612622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general topological spaces are _very_ general < 1196612647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you usually add some nicer axioms < 1196612663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and single points being closed is one of the first < 1196612690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite sets follow from that, since the union of two closed sets is closed < 1196612722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okie. < 1196612741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you mean by "single points being closed" < 1196612770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set containing a single element (point) of the space in question < 1196612830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now being closed is also very general, the topology of a space is simply defined by which subsets are considered closed (or equivalently, open) < 1196612863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the complement of a closed set is open, and vice versa < 1196613004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1196613038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i'd forgotten how great music my composer program created < 1196613438 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1196616795 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: new minus! http://www.kiwisbybeat.com/minus.html < 1196618240 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1196618356 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1196618360 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-170.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1196618372 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1196618821 0 :chuck!n=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1196618911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1196619728 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1196622399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00ts! < 1196622701 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that Colorforth rox
< 1196623484 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196623484 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196627323 0 :ihope!n=ns@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1196627330 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm suddenly wishing Haskell were Redivider. < 1196627569 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1196627653 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Haskell does have Parsec, though, which obviously is Redivider-like. < 1196627713 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: why?# < 1196627719 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, for that matter, what? < 1196627857 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I just have a simple parsing job that would be annoying with patterns.. < 1196627862 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.// < 1196627893 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders a melding of Redivider and ///
< 1196629913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: why code in haskell then, and not in redivider? < 1196630207 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not imbed redivider in haskell? < 1196631419 0 :chuck!n=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1196632760 0 :Jontte!n=joonas@dsl-hkibras1-ff0ac300-216.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1196632873 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi * 2 < 1196632891 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1196633313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi * -1 < 1196633517 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Redivider doesn't have support for threading. < 1196633541 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it did, I'd probably use it :-P < 1196633998 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1196634486 0 :chuck_!n=charlie@12-227-165-134.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1196634670 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1196635643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1196635646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleepz -> < 1196635655 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1196635659 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1196636336 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196636336 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1196636940 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1196637075 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if in a type system, all "forall"s must be explicitly stated with a dependent function arrow, I think every value has exactly one type. < 1196637130 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in no more Id : a => a; only Id : All \a (a => a), which would take a value for a as its first argument. < 1196637190 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you'd have stuff like Id Integer 3 instead of just Id 3. < 1196637402 0 :chuck_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1196638890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1196638977 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1196639798 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+"