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06:23:10 <oerjan> <bsmntbombdood> i thought equivelance of regexs was undecideable
06:23:46 <oerjan> not the FDA-equivalent basic form. extensions are a different matter.
06:24:47 <oerjan> basically you have all boolean operators, so you can calculate the xor and test for emptiness :)
06:25:51 <oerjan> probably want to convert it into an FSA first
06:26:56 <oerjan> on a deterministic one, not is easy. with non-determinism, or is easy.
06:27:28 <oerjan> mix this with the usual algorithm to convert D -> N
06:30:55 <oerjan> hm possibly and can be found deterministically too
06:32:26 <oerjan> which means you don't need D -> N conversion.
06:32:54 <oerjan> er N -> D, D -> N is just inclusion
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11:03:37 <dbc> Easier, perhaps, convert both regexs to minimum-state DFA and then just compare them state by state.
11:03:54 <dbc> That can be done automatically.
11:04:14 <dbc> (I mean, automatically and fairly easily)
11:07:13 * ais523 will now have to read the logs to find the start of the conversation
11:08:05 <ais523> apparently there was no start of the conversation, dbc just started talking for no apparent reason
11:08:21 <ais523> as a continuation of a conversation that was held sometime before yesterday
11:26:38 <oklopol> 5 hours is not a fairly standard answer delay
11:37:43 <dbc> You could call it five hours later, or six lines later, or one send later.
11:38:04 <dbc> These would not be equivalent if the channel were busy, of course :)
11:38:22 <ais523> I've been known to randomly continue conversations, but I can't find the start of that one in the logs
11:39:34 <ais523> and as for regex comparison, regexen are more interesting when they're modified to be TC and so can't be compared
12:48:58 <oklopol> i'm going to continue this conversation in exactly 4 years
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16:34:59 <oerjan> I think converting to not ((A and B) or (not A and not B)) is also very easy but since you need to go to DFA first i guess a minimal one is not that much harder.
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19:18:08 <bsmntbombdood> RodgerTheGreat: last night i dreamed about some guys collecting some vials of perfume from some plants, then swam in a river until i got to a dam, climbed up and on this huuuuuge structure of pipes, talked to a girl outside a weird gothy nightclub sort of thing
19:29:05 <RodgerTheGreat> hm... I've had some vivid ones recently- I'll see if I can remember anything specific...
19:31:13 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, man- part of a recent one that stands out involved my fish. I looked into his bowl, and it was empty with him gasping on the bottom. I freaked, and quickly added water to the bowl, and as the water rushed in the rocks and plants and everything poured into place as well. Then I looked at him and he kinda swelled up and stared at me, and then opened his mouth insanely wide.
19:31:26 <RodgerTheGreat> I remember huge sharp teeth and a jaw so distended it was barely attached
19:31:56 <oerjan> oh that wasn't dreaming, just sleepwalking.
19:37:23 <bsmntbombdood> RodgerTheGreat: i dreamed about a jew harp. it was eating you
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20:55:47 <iEhird> I shall implement Plof in... Smalltalk! Or maybe lisp. but you get the idea.
20:58:36 <iEhird> -- not on this iPhone, obviously.
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21:13:23 <GregorR> iEhird: I already implemented Plof2 in Smalltalk :P
21:14:23 <bsmntbombdood> only one person is allowed to have a nick that starts with the letter I
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21:24:51 <SimonRC> I just made a transcription error in a program
21:24:53 <SimonRC> the result was that the program become more useful
21:25:05 <SimonRC> that has to be a very rare event indeed
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21:33:41 <SimonRC> trans = across, scribe = writing, so transcribe = copy text from one place to another...
21:34:09 <SimonRC> ... I made a mistake when typing in a program from a non-computer-readable source.
21:39:53 <SimonRC> some PDFs have an anti copy-and-paste mechanism
21:42:29 <maximander> so do people ever show up and ask for things?
21:43:14 <SimonRC> the mechanism makes the characters come out as garbage, rather than preventing copying
21:43:21 <GregorR> If the PDF contained only an image of the text, then your PDF reader sucks in that it can't circumvent that particularly lame protection.
21:43:31 <GregorR> I got lost mid sentence ^^
21:43:36 <SimonRC> it is done by assigning the wrong character codes to the wrong glyphs
21:43:50 <GregorR> If the PDF contained only an image of the text, that's one thing. But if not, your PDF reader sucks in that it can't circumvent that particularly lame protection.
21:44:12 <SimonRC> GregorR: alas, your remark is out-of-date now
21:51:22 <maximander> Grrr.. i was hoping there'd be more people here asking for things
21:52:28 <SimonRC> nah, we don't get that much
21:53:10 <SimonRC> yeah, IRD is a mailing list at work, oops
21:53:23 <SimonRC> oklopol: what's with the "o" ?
21:53:42 <GregorR> Improv bullet point from a copy-paste?
21:53:51 <SimonRC> And what is this about ais523 winning a prize?
21:56:11 <SimonRC> he is the guy that proved it turing-complete?
21:56:46 <oklopol> and everything's with the o
21:56:59 <SimonRC> (if the tape is pre-processed via a certain infinite non-Turing-complete process first, ISTR)
21:57:29 <SimonRC> I suppose that is a sort of parallel Turing machine
22:00:08 <SimonRC> ah, yes, here are the Slashdot headlines: October 24th, 2007: "Wolfram's 2,3 Turing Machine Is Universal!"; October 29th, 2007: "Wolfram's 2,3 Turing Machine Not Universal"
22:01:55 <SimonRC> ah, the contraversy is whether the pre-processing is cheating
22:03:04 <SimonRC> they first consider a PDA, which isn't TC, and another PDA, which isn't TC, but together they are TC, because 2 PDAs is equivalent to a TM
22:04:39 <SimonRC> they then claim that just because the 2,3 automaton + a non-TC device = TC, that doesn't mean that the TC bit can be said to be inside the 2,3 automaton.
22:04:48 <SimonRC> I may be misunderstanding it
22:06:43 <SimonRC> oh, yes, and the pairing in his case is much weaker than the pairing of 2 PDAs to make a TM
22:07:06 <oklopol> turing completeness is a matter of opinion
22:07:31 <SimonRC> more specifically, "input" is a matter of opinion
22:14:22 * SimonRC reads a bit more about Stephan Wolfram.
22:17:49 <SimonRC> TBH there are enough people saying strong enough things about him that I can only figure out that he (SW) is somewhere between Einstein and Hubbard.
22:17:59 <GregorR> Preprocessing -> machine isn't remotely similar to PDA<->PDA. Note the arrow directions ^^
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