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07:56:30 * faxathisia is debugging a compiler and getting nowhere :/
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08:00:49 <adu> I haven't worked on my language in awhile, like a whole week
08:01:10 <adu> but I just thought of another operator I could get rid of
08:01:45 <adu> I've been trying to minimize the number of operators in my lang, and until recently I had it down to parentheses, ' ', and '='
08:02:14 <adu> and I think I can get rid of '=' and keep it Turring, complete
08:03:41 <adu> it started out as my frustration with Haskell, but it has evolved into Haskell--
08:04:13 <adu> so obviously, ' ' it the function application operator
08:04:32 <faxathisia> What is your frustration with haskell?
08:04:45 <adu> mainly with numeric types and type classes
08:04:55 <adu> the monadic stuff is really nice tho
08:05:05 <adu> I just hate how Haskell does numbers
08:05:36 <adu> Haskell has 3 exponentiation operators, I think that is rediculous
08:06:13 <adu> Haskell has 5 type classes (i.e. interfaces) for describing what Float and Double can do
08:06:27 <adu> and the names they use are rediculous
08:06:57 <faxathisia> (It makes sense to describe exp inductively on N, understand it's properties, generalize it to Z, then Q)
08:07:16 <faxathisia> then you make a new def. for R using pages and pages of calculus :S
08:07:32 <adu> faxathisia: 4 operators? thats silly you only need ^ in the (Num a) type class (which is where (*) is defined as well), and have it opperate differently when the context is (Num Float)
08:08:43 <adu> well, '()' do the obvious
08:08:55 <adu> and ' ' is function application, like Haskell
08:09:19 <adu> but '=' is not quite like assignment, its used for pairing a key and a value
08:09:25 <adu> but that key does not need to be a literal
08:10:16 <adu> for example "c = ('a' = 1, 'b' = 2)" will make a function/hash-table such that when you apply it "c 'b'" the result is 2
08:11:08 <adu> when the binding is between a pattern and an expression, the '=' operator becomes a lambda
08:11:45 <adu> so "c = (\x = (x*x))" defines the square function
08:12:09 <adu> the \ is to distinguish between symbols and pattern-variables
08:12:25 <adu> x is the symbol/unquoted-string "x"
08:12:34 <adu> \x is a pattern that matches anything and binds it to x
08:13:09 <adu> and it also resembles Haskells lambda syntax (\x -> x*x)
08:14:46 <adu> but I was thinking about the binding operator, and I was wondering if it was really needed
08:16:06 <adu> because everything can be though of as a query or a command anyways, and if there is no interpretation of either in the current namespace, then there would technically be an error, but if the error of not finding any current bindings was instead used as the method of binding, then the '=' operator is useless
08:18:12 <adu> does that make sense?
08:19:10 <faxathisia> so instead of (\x = (x*x)) you write (x*x) ?
08:19:23 <adu> so the square function would be defined as "sq \x (x*x)"
08:20:17 <adu> but this means lists could also be defined differently, as "ls 1 4" would equate to ls = 4, its almost like prologizing everything
08:20:29 <adu> it reminds me of the mathematical distinction between functions and relations
08:20:34 <adu> there is very little difference
08:21:09 <adu> and since there is a binding for "ls 1", the evaluation gives the result "4"
08:22:33 <adu> cuz in prolog all functions are basically booleans, if you want to assign "X = ls" you have to write "nth(1, ls x)." thats what I meant by "prolog-izing"
08:23:01 <adu> nth(1, ls, x).
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08:27:51 <adu> faxathisia: so what compiler are you working on?
08:28:25 <faxathisia> so I need to compile programs to run in it
08:28:59 <faxathisia> now that I wrote an interpreter and compiler.. when the self interpreter doesn't work the problem could be.. anywhere :S
08:30:06 <faxathisia> I wonder if I should just write my own Sint based on theirs..
08:31:40 <adu> hmm whats Janus?
08:33:03 <faxathisia> It's like the While language (minimalsit turing complete imperative), but every program can be run forwards or backwards
08:34:31 <faxathisia> for example, http://rafb.net/p/7HtmQg50.txt
08:35:33 <adu> ok so its the forwards-backwards Janus
08:35:54 <adu> I google'd some other Janus's related to Ada95 and Prolog
08:36:29 <adu> http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/janus95/j-ada95.htm
08:37:53 <adu> whats a "Sint"
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08:46:49 <adu> so is that PostScript then?
08:51:20 <adu> or is that Janus?
08:52:36 <faxathisia> That's the self interpreter I am trying to make work
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17:58:01 <ehird`> wow, that's some shite networking
18:17:03 <ehird`> omfg, the asshole paul graham patented continuation-based webservers: http://www.google.com/patents?id=WE8GAAAAEBAJ&dq=6205469
18:18:06 * faxathisia also agrees with this after reading him talking nonsense about Prolog
18:18:50 <ehird`> 'Weird since Linus probably doesn’t use TextMate.' i'm suprised this had to be qualified with 'probably'
18:19:04 <ehird`> because linux definately edits on a mac
18:19:35 <faxathisia> linus sometimes uses Mac OS and TextMate
18:19:48 <faxathisia> that's when he is doing ruby on rails work
18:20:04 <ehird`> he's rewriting the kernel in rails
18:20:16 <faxathisia> whlie flying around in a pink elephant
18:20:23 <ehird`> but he's considering switching to arc
18:29:52 <ehird`> faxathisia: you'll hate this guy re: prolog too http://www.yosefk.com/blog/high-level-cpu-follow-up.html
18:31:16 <faxathisia> well he's just some guy who can't program and no-ones likely to listen to
18:32:22 <ehird`> you could question pg's programming ability too
18:32:47 <ehird`> faxathisia: he does make hardware, though: http://www.yosefk.com/blog/the-high-level-cpu-challenge.html
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19:02:03 <SimonRC> I just resurrected a 6-month-dead thread.
19:02:16 <SimonRC> That's almost a century in Internet years.
19:03:33 <SimonRC> @Paul Graham: the bastard!
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19:05:27 <ehird`> speaking of which, this chatterbot makes me sick: http://rome.purepistos.net/mathetes/
19:05:33 <SimonRC> It's been on his fucking website for several years!
19:05:52 <ehird`> it says i'm not a human because i'm not catholic :)
19:06:11 <ehird`> it was filed in 1997, so him describing it on his website
19:08:11 <ehird`> SimonRC: but this is an example why software patents are sickening
19:08:33 <SimonRC> have you read what he says about software patents?
19:09:57 <SimonRC> he has written an essay on why software patents are not particularly evil
19:10:46 <ehird`> to be honest the 'software patent' stuff is pretty misguided: patents, full stop, are broken
19:10:58 <ehird`> i can understand the core idea to a degree but everything on top of that is hideously wrong
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21:30:26 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: you know you talked about segfault handling for a bf interp?
21:30:33 <ehird`> http://libsigsegv.sourceforge.net/ portable lib to do it
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21:45:02 <ehird`> bah why are revision controlsystems always mutable?
21:45:09 <ehird`> filesystems should never modify data!
21:47:53 <ehird`> oh well, MINE will be an immutable, garbage-collected filesystem database! :D
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22:54:27 <ehird`> libsigsegv could be a fun way to implement a really esoteric language implementation
22:54:51 <ehird`> i'm thinking a ->C Cheney on the MTA compiler, using libsigsegv to allocate *all* memory and its stack overflow detection to unwind