< 1202947939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1202948023 0 :Tritonio__!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202948116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang idea: language with fucked up order of operations. < 1202948128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*(3+4) == 2*3+4, anyone? < 1202948137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1202948157 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202948168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION proceeds to have nightmares of parentheses doing random things
< 1202948213 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*(3+4) is right-associative < 1202948217 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not as bad as it seems < 1202948232 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tends to be more common than left-, and sometimes you can refactor to remove parens with it < 1202948246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no. + has higher precedence than *. :p < 1202948262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*(3+4) = (3+4)*2 = 3+4*2 = 2*3+4. < 1202948316 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that's actually useful < 1202948325 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say 2*(3+4) is more common than (2*3)+4 < 1202948347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not standard mathematics. < 1202948616 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is < 1202948617 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202948909 0 :sarehu`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202949432 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here used Urban M?ller's original Amiga distribution on real-life Amiga hardware? < 1202949440 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be acquiring an Amiga sometime.. < 1202949450 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can stick an ethernet port into it. :) < 1202949579 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^brainfuck that is < 1202949704 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202949783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, write a PSOX custom domain! < 1202949806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, write the infrastructure for it. :p < 1202949817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually: could you link me to the PSOX SVN? < 1202949837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk < 1202949894 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does python run on an amiga? :) < 1202949904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know
< 1202949979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your simple cat example doesn't check for EOF. < 1202949985 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it does, sgeo < 1202949987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Linux will run on one, IIRC. < 1202949993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1202949993 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: iirc, yes. < 1202950003 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am talking about AmigaOS, that bastion of awesomeity :) < 1202950050 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to unpack LHA files on a UNIX? < 1202950053 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1202950318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does it need to? < 1202950345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, I'll be doing my C PSOX library later tonight. ;) < 1202950346 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch(o=1,*c++) { < 1202950348 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1202950350 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is evil < 1202950350 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202950395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, hm? < 1202950535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, should I write a version that checks for EOF? < 1202950541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1202950587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: If/when you decide to do more on C2BF, you should do one big thing: use PSOX as part of the stdlib. < 1202950616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, should it be written in BF or Python? < 1202950626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1202950641 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: using PSOX as part of the stdlib would be a disaster < 1202950648 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only for the output size and elegance.. < 1202950662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen the C2BF output size? < 1202950670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like that's a major issue. < 1202950676 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that bad. < 1202950860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, want it to be char-by-char or line-by-line? < 1202950870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Char-by-char. < 1202950924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after this, I will be able to create the Brainfuck Audio Suite. >:D. < 1202950951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio? < 1202950979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Calamari, IIRC, wrote a script that would take raw audio and output Brainfuck code outputting that. . . < 1202950996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use: egobfi8 output_brainfuck.bf > /dev/dsp < 1202951288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, it's breaking for some unknown reason < 1202951561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, committed < 1202951578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only demonstrates EOF for a fixed number of characters though < 1202951624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/impl/cat_with_eof_check.py < 1202951645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, BF2PSOX.py seems fairly. . . Useless. < 1202951796 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nonsense! In the future, all esolangs will support nothing but PSOX! It is far superior for every single program! < 1202951913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should start reorganizing his home dir
< 1202952023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a bad thing needing to refer to the specs for knowing whether EOF makes the indicator 0 or 1? < 1202952073 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202952076 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should be 1 < 1202952095 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the way it is currently, you can end a loop upon an EOF < 1202952100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BF < 1202952289 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1202952408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1202952412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eating and stuff < 1202953487 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202954201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back
< 1202954203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi faxathisia < 1202954221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any further thoughts? < 1202954248 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1202954363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yeah. . . < 1202954395 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"*poof*" < 1202954401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's time to sharpen the guillotine, tie the knots for the gallows, and get ready for revolution. < 1202954414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gM4mwPQcU0j446qIew8P7ZmifwNgD8UP4GG03 < 1202954458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant with PSOX ofc < 1202954725 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: gosh really < 1202954740 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, there's no confusion.. Sgeo would never talk about anything that isn't psox < 1202954740 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202954750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1202954785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do on different channels < 1202954787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1202954790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nojoke < 1202954829 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myths < 1202954833 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myths and LIES and STATISTICS < 1202954839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1202954843 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND... CUDDLESWORTH! < 1202954844 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dksfhdkslhdfklgsdfg < 1202954931 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucknuts < 1202954934 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to do more work < 1202955586 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202956170 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202956371 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202956388 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1202957250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957251 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957252 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957253 0 :tejeez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957253 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957254 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957255 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957257 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957260 0 :Tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957260 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957263 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957266 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957266 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957268 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957268 0 :Overand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957269 0 :johnl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957271 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957271 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957271 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957272 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202957387 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :Tritonio__!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r11snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :johnl!i=johnl@johnl.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :Overand!i=overand@dissociative.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957387 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957449 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-62-218.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957473 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@iruel.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1202957473 0 :tejeez!n=tejeez@dsl-lhtgw2-fea7dc00-42.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1202958143 0 :Tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1202958434 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202959444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, other random people, going to check out PSOX at any point? < 1202960108 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202960118 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202960138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re bsmntbombdood_ < 1202961064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone interested in PSOX? Anyone? < 1202961066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat? < 1202961070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol? < 1202962308 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one < 1202962453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_, there's a reason I haven't asked you -- you've expressed a dislike of PSOX < 1202962467 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1202962481 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1202962697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi AnMaster_ < 1202963411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1202964104 0 :tejeez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202965133 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202965147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pikhq < 1202965156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any more testing/experimenting with PSOX? < 1202965549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" i would say 2*(3+4) is more common than (2*3)+4" <<< i definitely disagree. < 1202965650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's nothing interesting in changing the precedence of operators randomly, you can just change that in the source in many languages < 1202965667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making parens evaluate inside out might have something interesting. < 1202965874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of a syntax where actually only the set of tokens used in a program matter, so that you can actually obfuscate pretty badly mechanically < 1202965883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how sane you could make that look < 1202965901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not very :) < 1202965971 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: honestly, I find PSOX interesting, but I haven't had much time to spend on esocoding- I have to finish my schoolwork first, dude < 1202966159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Expect more interest when we have more time. < 1202966357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only some 47 years to my retirement. < 1202966386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i promise to take a deep look then < 1202966453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, the esolang wiki will be five-dimensional then, and my dated brain cannot comprehend it) < 1202966502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the year 2030, they add another dimension to the reality, to make it more interesting < 1202966533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i need to go < 1202966541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you keeps the pole in your pants! < 1202966542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1202968588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202972947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1202975925 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202975999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1202976000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1202978835 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202978961 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202980592 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202987625 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1202990236 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POLTERGEIST! < 1202990267 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have three cats in this house: Tia, Ish and Helsinki. At 3AM, a plant is knocked over causing a very loud chain reaction. < 1202990285 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tia is sleeping on my bed at the time, and Helsinki isn't allowed in that part of the house, so I assume it's Ish. < 1202990299 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After searching for Ish for a half an hour, I hear a meowing at the door, and there's Ish, outside. < 1202990312 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I assume it's Helsinki and she's gotten loose. < 1202990328 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After searching for her for a while, I happen to look outside and she's on the porch. < 1202990333 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: POLTERGEIST. < 1202990726 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202993122 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!" < 1202993864 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1202994462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil lies! < 1202994495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202994503 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sevil lives! < 1202994569 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202994705 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1202995656 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be the boring hour < 1202995881 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202996378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202998020 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202998026 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203004384 0 :Dagide!n=dak@87.18.81.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203004809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"dinner" < 1203005142 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1203005392 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203005691 0 :Dagide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203006402 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203006633 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203007602 0 :Hiat1!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1203007941 0 :Hiat1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203008104 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203008619 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203009338 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203009344 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203009677 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1203009710 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203009743 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: your cats have interesting names. Mine are named Chai and Matcha. < 1203009815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like cats >:| < 1203009839 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you pissed off that you like cats? < 1203009910 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> map(name, SimonRC -> pets(PETTYPE_CAT)) < 1203009920 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1203009940 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that? < 1203009958 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudo programming language < 1203009964 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> is a prompt < 1203009970 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunh < 1203009977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. I have no cats < 1203009983 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203009988 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need cats. < 1203009994 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1203010002 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because cats are awesome. < 1203010013 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am alergic to them < 1203010014 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no wonder the cat program is the most popular. < 1203010018 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, so am I < 1203010018 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, currently my parents possess cats and I do not as I live in a dorm room. However, I love "my" cats and visit them as well as my parents often < 1203010024 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203010054 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats are not as inclined to loyalty as dogs are < 1203010058 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I'm allergic to cats, too! However, cats are worth taking antihistamines. < 1203010065 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203010070 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need loyalty from a cat. < 1203010071 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it really depends on the cats < 1203010078 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cats are bastards, others are very nice < 1203010080 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need a tincan < 1203010085 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: I didn't say I did < 1203010090 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tincan + spoon = catcall < 1203010163 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, with Chanology going on, I didn't do much. < 1203010175 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should work moar on my esolangs < 1203010184 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you must be one of Anonymous < 1203010226 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because none of us are as cruel as all of us" < 1203010245 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1203010269 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonymous are not being particularly nasty ATM < 1203010308 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT the recent protests are peaceful, if disturbing < 1203010412 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203010412 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203010495 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that statement is more historical < 1203010541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?- cats(ehird, X). < 1203010547 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = [] < 1203010547 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203010565 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?- cats(ehird, X), wanted_value(X). < 1203010569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = [_G101] ; < 1203010574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = [_G101,_G102] ; < 1203010579 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = [_G101,_G102,_G103...] ; < 1203010581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203010627 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cats are pretty much in it for the opposable thumbs, i'd say < 1203010643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?- cats(ehird, X), old_value(X). X = [_G101,_G102]) < 1203010655 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~Ex x = Cats /\ x in ehird` < 1203010662 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats can have my thumbs when I'm dead < 1203010696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they purr a lot. QED < 1203010743 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some cats have an opposable thumb, of sort. < 1203010743 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polydactyl cats, with an extra finger. < 1203010772 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't open cans. < 1203010786 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can usually open doors, though < 1203010795 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're better at climbing on shit. < 1203010801 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't need to open cans. < 1203010806 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can eat birds < 1203010817 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cans are getting easier to open every year < 1203010833 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon, humanity will be unecessary for cats. < 1203010834 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who needs to open cans when you can open birds?" < 1203010845 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's when the revolution will strile < 1203010847 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k* < 1203010862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can open doors pretty well, yeah < 1203010869 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all said and done they couldn't do well without a human < 1203010873 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier for them to be lazy < 1203010893 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they end up evolving humanoid features so that they can replace us, it's likely they'll promptly undomesticate themselves < 1203010909 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats need humans to change litter boxes. end of discussion. < 1203010917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously they think they'd do better than us :p < 1203011229 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to start up an Esoteric OS project again, sometime < 1203011249 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my input is that it should have, at its core, an esoteric virtual machine, with everything built up on top of that < 1203011290 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC machine. < 1203011291 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203011395 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203011403 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too trivial < 1203011434 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To implement, possibly! < 1203011446 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest doesn't seem too trivial < 1203011483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw < 1203011485 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too trivial of an IDEA < 1203011523 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to make something new up? < 1203011657 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1203011755 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got any inkling? < 1203011861 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1203011868 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it should include some crazy kind of memory management < 1203011896 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203011961 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it OUT OF CLOCKS? < 1203012048 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reddit.com/r/programming/info/68oka/comments/c036iud <-- this is cool < 1203012156 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives me an idea! < 1203012167 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esoteric vm's `base` programming language should be stack-based, < 1203012169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but prefix & infix < 1203012277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: fact dup if 0? [1] [* fact (dup-1)] ; < 1203012296 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: yes/no < 1203012343 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm probably not going to contribute much. < 1203012346 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do as you like. < 1203012360 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: fib dup if 0? [0] [dup if 1? [1] [(fib (dup-1))+(fib (-2))]] ; < 1203012473 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have opinions? < 1203012631 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't parse that < 1203012729 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure what the dup is for < 1203012844 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to seperate the condition of the if from all that comes before. < 1203012851 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is un-forth-like < 1203012903 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not : fact dup 0? if id [1] [* fact (dup-1)] ; < 1203012912 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where id is the identity function < 1203012938 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, SimonRC, it's prefix/infix. < 1203012950 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okaaaay < 1203012951 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the dup is because the fib will eat it up < 1203012954 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving you none to do the -2 with < 1203012955 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is this defined? < 1203012966 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: fib dup if 0? [0] [dup if 1? [1] [(fib (dup-1))+(fib (-2))]] ; < 1203012989 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: fib dup 0? [0] [dup 1? [1] [dup 1 - fib 2 - fib +] if] if ; < 1203012992 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it parses up < 1203013096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203013722 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION works out type of lambda-calculus Y starting from `fix`
< 1203013723 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y :: (a -> a) -> a < 1203013733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y f = f (Y f) < 1203013743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we need to assign a value to the whole type of Y.. < 1203013840 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y :: a=((a -> b) -> b) < 1203013844 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was easy. < 1203014548 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203016305 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5af08670.wfd103.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203016374 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203016882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Must - kill - incessantly - coughing - housemate (who refuses to accept cough drops)" < 1203017366 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203017847 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203019229 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203021607 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203021634 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world! < 1203021802 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knock knock? anybody home? < 1203021834 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's there? < 1203022182 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me - haay < 1203022204 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im new to esoteric (can you tell) < 1203022289 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come up with an esolang idea that could possibly work in-silico < 1203022343 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont know if its crazy enough tho < 1203022432 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here. < 1203022443 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-silico? < 1203022480 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in-vivo=a living being. In-silico=on a chip < 1203022516 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's the idea? < 1203022573 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on the MISC implementation of OISC, defiinitely turing-complete, but more practical. Possibly faster (unproven) < 1203022606 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OISC is esoteric enough < 1203022615 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking of calling it NMISC (New MISC or NightMare-In-Silly-Cone??) < 1203022663 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really simple. OISC is based on subtract/conditional branch. < 1203022697 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC really makes OISC a bit more practical < 1203022697 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And isn't very pleasant to implement on a Turing machine! < 1203022731 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything where you have to rewrite the tape is unpleasant on a Turing machine < 1203022737 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially on one tape < 1203022815 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the self-modifiny code bit is annoying, but it's possible to translate from assembly like code to OISC < 1203022865 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably < 1203022876 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, back to the idea. OISC=subtract/conditional-branch. NMISC=multiply/add/conditional-branch < 1203022908 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggest problem i think of in OISC isnt implementation, its doing simple things like multiplication < 1203022928 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will be the branching condition on NMISC? < 1203022938 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203022945 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as multiply is easy, you have access to Taylor polynomials (ie a lot of other functions) < 1203022966 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am trying to think of an easy way to describe NMISC < 1203023034 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. i got the idea by figuring out how to make an OISC chip using transistor-logic (ie in-silico) < 1203023073 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out, subtraction in-silico is addition of one binary number, the inverse of another binary number, and 1 < 1203023101 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie 3-1 becomes 0011 + 1110 + 0001 < 1203023137 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives 1 0010. 0010=2. the extra 1 is the carry flag < 1203023176 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry flag=1, result is postive. carry flag=0, result is negative < 1203023191 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC becomes easy to implement from there. < 1203023222 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with multiplication is, multiply 64-bit*64-bit gives 128-bit < 1203023247 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats where the MISC idea comes in < 1203023313 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(following so far??) < 1203023342 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I only know two things of in-silico. < 1203023344 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203023356 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203023365 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: how about forgetting about silico for now < 1203023370 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just writing out the base operation < 1203023372 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like: < 1203023376 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A book on computers from 1976, and some bitwise research on wikipedia (I wanted to make a computer with finger binary) < 1203023380 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opand opand ... -- c code < 1203023385 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sure < 1203023392 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't follow too much < 1203023435 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the carry-flag operation is SO SO important, as it is how the conditional branch works, and makes it trivial to translate MISC into NMISC < 1203023473 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK: OISC= IF (A==A-B)<=0 jump C < 1203023543 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MISC= IF(A==B-C)<=0 jump D. D has 2 bits not used for jumping, but are used as data control bits (important). all addresses are relative < 1203023564 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC (bit more complicated) < 1203023600 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one that just did: A -= accumulator < 1203023608 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IP was memmapped < 1203023636 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O has to be memory mapped. < 1203023684 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC:: A=F(A*B)+C < 1203023697 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is F? < 1203023710 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F is dependant on D < 1203023755 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is still the jump address, with data-control properties included < 1203023795 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the jump address is D, with the lowest 2 bits being ignored (as only every 4th address is a new instruction) < 1203023818 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowest D-bit controls data. second lowest d-bit controls F < 1203023848 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F either gets the low half or the high half of (A*B) < 1203023875 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing so far (maybe) -but when you put it all together it seems to work < 1203023955 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translating MISC to NMISC, F only need to grab low half of (A*B). B is always set to -1, so A=C-A. trivial < 1203024001 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast-multiply-add takes 3 instruction. < 1203024050 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) calculate lowest 64 bits. jump to 3) if no carry flag < 1203024065 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) add 1 to highest 64 bits < 1203024078 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) calculate highest 64 bits < 1203024143 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taylor polynomials are calcualted using(((Ax+B)x+C)x+D) etc < 1203024161 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203024161 0 :PupUser936e92!n=PupUser9@prsu54qb.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203024187 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone do a sanity check for me. does this all make sense, or has someone been putting lsd in my coffee again < 1203024213 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to work < 1203024222 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement it and find out < 1203024244 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time i did programming it was on a commodore-64 < 1203024280 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, program on a C-64 emulator! < 1203024290 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1203024303 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or profit from what the future has to offer. < 1203024311 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we're in the future people. < 1203024314 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am already sure it must work. been messing with a lot of pen-and-paper < 1203024319 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a proof for this. < 1203024338 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since this Christmas, I have a device that allows me to see videos, in my pocket. < 1203024347 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, that's the fucking future. < 1203024385 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely turing complete, as it emulated OISC trivially. Just wondering if it would be faster than OISC in-silico for real-world applications (not a trivial question) < 1203024438 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - going to write a C-64 emulator emulation of NMISC < 1203024446 0 :PupUser936e92!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" < 1203024480 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203024496 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beware. Piling up interpreters isn't good for speed! < 1203024553 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrote a C-64 emulator emulation of OSIC in machine-language once. clicked along slowly but smoothly < 1203024588 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC will be in basic. multiplication in C64-ML sux < 1203024597 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203024608 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be as slow as a snail travelling on a turtle < 1203024627 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the snail would be travelling faster. < 1203024634 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203024658 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might not know electronics, but I can galilean-transform the shit out of snails!) < 1203024680 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahh < 1203024725 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Studying physics isn't very computer-oriented here. < 1203024737 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you study physics? < 1203024742 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203024749 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind? < 1203024802 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's labeled as "Physics-Physics". Or "actually "Physique-physique". < 1203024835 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the fundamental kind. Nuclear, quantum, relativity, continuum mechanics, electromagnetism < 1203024840 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that shit. < 1203024858 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i got as far as some very elemenatry quantum and relativity, but then my brain started to hurt < 1203024893 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain often hurts here. < 1203024897 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203024908 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We mostly use programming for number-crunching here. < 1203024924 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Find the centroid of that radiation spectrum!" < 1203024957 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's hard to learn sum real CS. < 1203024970 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw an interesting show about some kind of theory combining quantum and relativity. Needed at least 11 dimensions or something, with dimensions 5 and up being very compact < 1203025006 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of got the idea of how a dimension could be compact. Thank god they didnt go into the maths of it all though. < 1203025007 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String theory. Although right now, all eyes are turned to that one guy who cooked up a theory at home! < 1203025038 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a claim for a major breakthrough every few months, and usually, you never hear of it again. < 1203025051 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if it was true for once. < 1203025057 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the where talking about branes? < 1203025086 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-theory. thats it. < 1203025121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a few years ago, around high school, I started reading real science. < 1203025124 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a bunch of maths equations with no real-world proof < 1203025136 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1203025142 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And noticed that popular science didn't help much understanding it. < 1203025163 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I haven't read a lot about string theory these last few years, since I don't want the popular stuff and can't read the real. < 1203025187 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String theory is pretty much theoretical, yes. < 1203025205 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there's some good hope for some clues this year < 1203025210 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the LHC. < 1203025217 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that how relativity started though < 1203025228 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats LHC?? < 1203025241 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large Hadron Collider. < 1203025254 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relativity actually started on proof. < 1203025262 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless you count Maxwell's work. < 1203025277 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203025282 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It came from the Michelson-Morley experiment. < 1203025302 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: i'll write an interpreter < 1203025308 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fuzzy on details) though relativity was a pipe-dream explaining xperiment < 1203025312 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb.net/paste <-- paste a compact description of the semantics < 1203025317 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&i'll implement it < 1203025324 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird - should be an easy interpreter < 1203025351 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll interpret it as one-line-per-instruction, whitespace-seperated-hex-operands though... < 1203025352 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not binary < 1203025355 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do binary < 1203025357 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see little use :) < 1203025362 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i could do both i guess < 1203025366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary+assembler < 1203025496 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :started writing a version of NMISC, but was using A=A+B*C. A bit of experimenting showed A=A*B+C might be more useful (see tha Taylor polynomial expansion) < 1203025518 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A=A+B*C comes out in short hand as follows < 1203025521 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: welp, ok. I don't need a huge paper, just a few lines describing it :P < 1203025622 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC+=IF((M(M(PC)+PC)==M(M(PC)+PC)+(IF(m(pc+3)AND1),m(PC+1),m(m(PC+1)+PC))*m(m(pc+2)+PC)DIV(IF((m(PC+3)AND2),2^N,1))MOD(2^N))<2^N,4+(m(pc+3)ANDNOT3),4) < 1203025633 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like excel code.. < 1203025645 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you happen to be a mathematician? :) < 1203025654 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. using the excel IF(condition,return-true,return-false) < 1203025664 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. Im a telemarketer < 1203025671 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1203025677 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203025690 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is all this a ploy to sell me something relating to esoteric programming languages? < 1203025706 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just happen to have love math, electronics and computers since i can remember. < 1203025729 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you have some awesome BF computer to sell us? < 1203025731 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, lifes curveballs and ended up with me telemarketing < 1203025761 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would LOVE to get something onto silicon. < 1203025764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb.net/paste <-- if you could write it out in something slightly less compact and unreadable here i'll have an implementation in -3 seconds (yes, i really am that quick.. this is the interpreter: , now show me in 3 seconds) < 1203025795 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. hang on hlaf a tick. got something on paper a bit readable. brb < 1203025836 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugger. threw the reable one out. liked the formula version as it makes more sense to me < 1203025850 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. trying to translate back into simple-mode < 1203025854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203025883 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first note. all addresses are relative to the current program counter (PC) < 1203025902 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic idea is A=A*B+C (simple enough) < 1203025917 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculate X=A*B < 1203025922 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: so, expanding with the PC: < 1203025931 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PC+A)=(PC+A)*(PC+B)+(PC+C) < 1203025934 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1203025961 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: also -- just confirming, how many operands does it have? 3? < 1203025976 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of. the MOD and DIV in the formula version are to do with F() - ie to get the low or high end of A*B < 1203025984 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 operand < 1203026000 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A=A*B+C. Jump D on right conditions < 1203026010 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203026042 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X=A*B < 1203026102 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (Dand2) then Y=X DIV 2^64 else Y=X MOD 2^64 (assuming 64-bit) < 1203026137 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming 64-bit? < 1203026140 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A=Y+C mod 2^64 < 1203026144 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a pretty big assumption :) < 1203026157 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. substitute 2^16 if you want a 16 bit computer, etc < 1203026198 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if B=the bits, and D=the size of ints/pointers, then does B have to =D? < 1203026207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it OK as long as B<=D < 1203026243 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Y+C>2^64 then jump PC+(d and not 3)+4 else jump PC+4 < 1203026329 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to keep things simple. if its an 16-bit computer then each operand is 16 bits long and computer has a 2^16 word memory (128K) < 1203026368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: OK, so if an operand can store more than 16bits or a memory cell can -- that's bad? < 1203026377 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, in C, there's no decent way to determine this kind of thing < 1203026405 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have purposely used jump addresses relative to the next instruction, so that a jump to +0 is not a jump at all (ie it will force a jump to next instruction) < 1203026417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: hmm, i have a question < 1203026423 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203026426 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bit-size do you reccomend for an implmentation? < 1203026429 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit? simplest < 1203026457 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not enough memor < 1203026457 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1203026463 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any could do. depending on how much memory you need to play with < 1203026473 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203026499 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id got for 16-bit to begin with. < 1203026517 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^16 memory cells. 2^12 instructions. enough to do a bit < 1203026531 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: OK. It might be more elegant if you don't involve bit-sizes at all. < 1203026551 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might make in-silico harder, but makes it turing-complete. < 1203026556 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitsize is vital < 1203026567 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203026573 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: do the noticable semantics change with bitsize? < 1203026578 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. programs are totally different < 1203026584 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. infinite bit-size is turing-complete. finite bit-size is practical < 1203026601 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... < 1203026636 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: Who's there?! < 1203026639 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: i'm just asking :P < 1203026648 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change in bit-size will change the programming < 1203026653 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: he's a telemarketer who's come up with a OISC that he thinks might be better in-silico < 1203026668 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: what i mean is do all programs change substantially or could you look at them and go 'yeah i guess they do the same thing' < 1203026671 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird'-- thats cool < 1203026673 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird that is not a knock knock joke ;( < 1203026690 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was doing a PhD once... dont ask) < 1203026696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: think about it right and it is < 1203026716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I will ask. < 1203026735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oerjan, one of the regulars here, is IRL Dr. Johansen. :p) < 1203026771 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason bit-size is important is the condition-branch is dependant on it < 1203026788 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still trying to translate math to english) < 1203026796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: ah, ok < 1203026797 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1203026802 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: so it makes sense to decide, like, right now < 1203026802 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203026806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all, ehird` faxathisia, es0n00b < 1203026818 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1203026818 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much memory do we want?? < 1203026831 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One bit. < 1203026837 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: a lot < 1203026843 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 bit gives us 128K, 32 bit gives us 16GB < 1203026849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 64bit? < 1203026860 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bit gives us over 134,000,000 TB < 1203026867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: ok, here's the decider: < 1203026868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nets you 2^54 bits. More than enough. < 1203026870 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easiest to program for? < 1203026878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/54/64/ < 1203026891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: They're actually equally easy. < 1203026899 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: even with his semantics? < 1203026905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says the condition branch is dependant on it < 1203026906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uint_8, uint_16, uint_32, uint_64. . . < 1203026915 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit-size doesnt change ease of progamming. just possible maximum memory < 1203026916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of semantics would change with bit size? < 1203026923 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i don't know, but he says they do < 1203026949 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: OK. Then I would say 64-bit, but then again I cannot think of one use an esolang would have for >16GB memory -- but the larger ints might be useful < 1203026952 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i define the branch insturcion to english, you'll understand < 1203026955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not 8-bit, i think. < 1203026968 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. lets use 8-bit < 1203026971 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203026973 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203026984 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A=8 bit, B=8bit < 1203026987 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: 8-bit would be a big mistake. < 1203026991 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A*B=16 bit < 1203027000 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok ok < 1203027001 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooner or later, someone will come up with an awesome program that uses more than 128k < 1203027002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're dead < 1203027003 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203027023 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok. lets start with 32 bit < 1203027032 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=32bit, b=32bit < 1203027033 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best idea, i think < 1203027037 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a*b=64bit < 1203027045 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(a*b)=32bit < 1203027056 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() is the important part < 1203027082 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() returns to top 32 bits or the bottom 32 bits of a*b < 1203027112 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE (dand2)=0 -> f(a*b)=lowest 32 bits of a*b < 1203027122 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dand2)=2 -> f(a*b)=lowest 32 bits of a*b < 1203027126 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1203027134 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (dand2)=2 -> f(a*b)=highest 32 bits of a*b < 1203027152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d&2, right? < 1203027153 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise < 1203027171 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i get what you're saying < 1203027173 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all bitwise. my thoughts are for silion efficiency < 1203027182 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=f(a*b)+c < 1203027230 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if f(a*b)+c is smaller than 32 bits than jump d, otherwise jump next instruction < 1203027255 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'smaller than 32 bits'? < 1203027262 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, fits into 31 bits or less? < 1203027284 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mistake. sorry. the maths does get complicated < 1203027295 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1203027297 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should mean, fits into 32 bits or less < 1203027318 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE a=(f(a*b)+c)mod(2^32) < 1203027318 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203027324 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so below 33 bits < 1203027325 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 33 bit is truncated < 1203027344 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 bit controls the jump, but is not stored in A < 1203027367 0 :sclv_!i=40c0e402@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d57f61346587cc3d JOIN :#esoteric < 1203027374 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for this comes to to implementation of 64bit multiplication in 32bit computer < 1203027416 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 33nd bit is on in the first instruction, a carry has occurred and must be added to the top 32 bits < 1203027450 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=32bit, b=32bit, c=32 bit, d=32bit < 1203027478 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bottom 2 bits of D are ignored for the jump. < 1203027501 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203027518 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE: PC=PC+(Dandnot3)+4 :: the +4 makes jumps relative to the next instruction < 1203027559 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: i hope you're saving this to put in a textfile :-) < 1203027593 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie NMISC A B C 0 is forced to jump to the next instruction, and NMISC A B C 4 will skip the next instruction if bit33 is clear (ie no carry) < 1203027660 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole picture of the idea is all stored in my brain. the details are all to do with practicality. < 1203027699 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203027705 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC A,-1,C,D == A=C-A, jump D if bit33 clear < 1203027740 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC A,0,C,0 == A=C. no jump < 1203027747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: your conciseness makes me think you should be a forth programmer < 1203027748 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203027774 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1203027826 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had an electronic set as a kid, and was got into transitor-transitor logic < 1203027838 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203027843 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should get one! < 1203027882 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its crazy that all digital logic can be made using only NAND gates. thats when i first had an idea of a minimal computer. it's only now that things are coming to fruition < 1203027950 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg OR(A,B)=NAND(NAND(A,A),NAND(B,B)) < 1203028019 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats probably why im used to seeing it all as digital formulas but have so much trouble communicating the idea across right < 1203028067 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the D=0 -> no jump thing is also useful, as it leads to some neat tricks. < 1203028075 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also works with nor. < 1203028105 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** high five slereah_ < 1203028106 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could make something with imply and some bit consistently defined as 0. < 1203028120 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can derive all logical operators from imply and false < 1203028137 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure how that would play out on silicon < 1203028167 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to work with only NAND for ages. it is possible to make an OISC in NAND, but its horrible < 1203028188 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203028203 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC always feels like cheating to me. < 1203028222 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's got one instruction, but it has three parameters and symbols! < 1203028243 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somthing as simple as addition in NAND requires programming a version of the full-adder circuit. start thiniking about multiplication and its a nightmare < 1203028262 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a program to translate it? < 1203028267 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what lead me to the NMISC idea (that and discovering OISC/MISC) < 1203028334 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah - OISC isnt the most difficult esolang < 1203028363 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not the easiest. < 1203028376 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF and the like are good if you want a challenge. I'm looking for something practical though < 1203028415 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC shouldnt be too hard to pout onto a Field-programmable gate array < 1203028421 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pout=put < 1203028438 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was imagining the program pouting. < 1203028440 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: hm, my haskell NMISC isn't getting too far yet: evalStateT (writeMem 0 1 >> readMem 0) baseMachine < 1203028443 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203028443 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's returning 0 < 1203028444 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203028475 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all addition, multiplication and a little boolean-logic < 1203028478 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: actually, writing stuff like this in haskell is odd < 1203028494 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get your provably-correct, purely-functional, mathematically-valid program and add all this generic stuff :) < 1203028504 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its still good for it, though < 1203028530 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woop < 1203028531 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory works :P < 1203028534 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. my wife is awake, so i probably got to go soon. < 1203028546 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: now as soon as you've got the instruction written down and put somewhere i'll implement it ;) < 1203028546 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> chloroform < 1203028551 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok then < 1203028556 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try and understand myself.. < 1203028567 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i might flesh this idea out, put it on paper, then maybe write a NMISC page onto esolang.org < 1203028604 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my email is cdgamlin AT hotmail DOT com < 1203028625 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: really, for this implementation i just need a description of the one instruction and the IO model < 1203028632 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb.net/paste will store it too < 1203028650 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esolang page would be great when there's a 'hello world' :P < 1203028687 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love to hear any experiments if the model gets up and running. email me your emails and i'll write you a full description of NMISC, and probably a pseudo-code BASIC version < 1203028743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have access to an email client here < 1203028747 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could probably write the "hello world" on paper faster than I could write a NMISC emulator. like I said, translating from MISC to NMISC is trivial < 1203028782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203028790 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we have a hello world and how it works then an impl should be easy < 1203028798 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NMISC just has more efficient ways to do things requiring multiplication (like almost all real-world math) < 1203028840 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. I'll write a "Hello World" to the NMISC page on esolang.org < 1203028854 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one question: < 1203028868 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is pi/2 < 1203028869 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what memory address is best for memory-mapped I/O < 1203028897 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory adress 1.57 < 1203028900 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking last two memory cells < 1203028961 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie FFFF and FFFE in hex (for 16 bits). Dont know if it makes much difference though. < 1203028976 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. wife wants me to do things. back later < 1203028981 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks guys < 1203029005 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to be able to share this crazy idea with ppl who might understand (and not look at me like i'm a nutter) < 1203029011 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bai. < 1203029024 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to understand moar though ":0) < 1203029025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: wait < 1203029027 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 0 and 1 < 1203029053 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that if you eat a lot of memory you don't have to think about it < 1203029054 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just start at 2 < 1203029084 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could use 0 and 1 < 1203029125 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the first instruction is 0: NMISC 0 0 0 0, it returns A=0, and goes to the next instruction anyways < 1203029172 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - ciao for now < 1203029234 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye :) < 1203029244 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1203029435 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203029571 0 :sclv_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1203029689 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a composition-lambda-calculus < 1203029698 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lambda-calculus without the lambda, but it's not combinator calculus < 1203029702 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's based on function composition < 1203029739 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"function" composition? < 1203029758 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: FUNCTION! composition < 1203029767 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just compose compositions < 1203029850 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION once had an idea of a lambda calculus without lambda.
< 1203029865 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just using capital letters for bound variables. < 1203029875 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seemed impractical < 1203029877 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzz < 1203030122 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: that's kind of... non-universal < 1203030138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a few primitives (one letter or symbols, of course) + composition = ? < 1203030149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you can make the composition operator implicit < 1203030154 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a concatentative language < 1203030169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go all the way and make it a stack language, then ais523 or oerjan i forget which -- suggested that 'dip' might be the operator < 1203030195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( .a b ( .a -- .b ) -- .b b ), that is < 1203030210 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 [+] dip => 3 3 < 1203030479 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203030782 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem with esolang is, it's hard to look back in your code. < 1203030980 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, that BF interpreter is a mess. < 1203031684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan < 1203031692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203031811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203031944 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203031958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203032001 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203032049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb pikhq < 1203032083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203032205 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203032240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?? < 1203033275 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203033321 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric