< 1201824385 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1201824385 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201824790 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_integrator < 1201824792 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1201825315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 GLOBAL-LET < 1201825341 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the solution to all global variable redefinition messiness and thread safe global variable redefinition hell! < 1201825393 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(global-let ((g1 v1) ...) body...) just like a let, but the variables are globals, redefined only in that body (that thread, form, etc) < 1201825486 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also lets you implement dynamic scoping, amusingly < 1201825509 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define x 2) (define (g) x) (define (f) (global-let ((x 3)) (g)) < 1201825513 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f) ===> 3 < 1201825590 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you replace all lets with global-lets, you get dynamic scoping < 1201825596 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better name is perhaps dynlet < 1201825911 0 :helios_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201826799 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. What if I wrote my own awesome EsCo? < 1201826973 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1201827002 0 :Tritonio__!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201827013 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201828155 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-27.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1201829011 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201829032 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1201831814 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1201832510 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201833415 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUPER DANCE EXPLOSION TIME < 1201833433 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1201837602 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"my client's gone silly and i am restarting it." < 1201837629 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201838019 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1201838038 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201839503 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1201839510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1201841111 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201843295 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1201844595 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201847720 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201852547 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1201852799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1201852800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1201856833 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"You enabled the bomb, arsehole." < 1201857372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201857556 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201861611 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201866319 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201867998 0 :Insane!n=foob@unaffiliated/insane JOIN :#esoteric < 1201868005 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the BF bot in here have a console? < 1201868009 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++. < 1201868028 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1201868031 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :• < 1201868034 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1201868041 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That beeps on consoles < 1201868041 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1201868054 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mine gives [7] instead of nothing < 1201868055 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1201868090 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++.++++++++++.-------.++++++++++. < 1201868095 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1201868099 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1201868121 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1201868123 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1201868144 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[] < 1201868156 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1201868184 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.] < 1201868190 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1201868196 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[. < 1201868199 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1201868201 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1201868203 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1201868205 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No debugging? < 1201868210 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*debugging error messages < 1201868236 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "unmatched [" or "infinite loop: stack overflow" < 1201868591 0 :faxathisia!n=more@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201869190 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 < 1201869248 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi EgoBot.. < 1201869710 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201869740 0 :Insane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Have a nice day!" < 1201870147 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201871107 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1201871667 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1201872175 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201872438 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1201872476 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1201878287 0 :Tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201879064 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1201879395 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201882290 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(decl map (-> (-> a b) (a) (b))) < 1201882295 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskellisp! < 1201882404 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1201882407 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1201882415 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(decl ...),in the definition < 1201883315 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wel, I hope the Wine thingy works. < 1201883609 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Insufficient privileges". < 1201883614 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I gain moar? < 1201883642 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo < 1201883675 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the console, it's in, Wine. < 1201883689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run for president < 1201883726 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can't wait 5 years to play! < 1201883871 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: sudo wine foo < 1201883879 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note;evil) < 1201884112 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm okay wioth evil. < 1201884286 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah@Vixem:~$ sudo wine c:\\Program\ Files\\Nobilis\\Hard\ to\ be\ a\ God\\AWE.exe" < 1201884295 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still insufficient. < 1201884450 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Wait, is it a windows error or a Linux error? < 1201885052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windoze < 1201885086 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. < 1201885115 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's time for sum dual booting. < 1201885272 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://apcmag.com/system/files/images/linux-to-linux-and-xp.body-thumbnail.png < 1201885276 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love the sound of this. < 1201885590 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201885613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird` < 1201885653 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi < 1201885683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I haven't been online recently < 1201885686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy in RL < 1201885740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the Underload compiler getting on? < 1201885749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only have the Scheme version on your website < 1201885796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not on my main machine right now so i don't have the dev version < 1201885797 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, soon < 1201885802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1201885893 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TINEBT (This is not Emacs, but TINEBT) < 1201885925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNUSP's acronym works along similar lines < 1201885972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i'm going to make it a strictly-evaluated, pointer using recursive acronym < 1201885975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name is TINE < 1201885976 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you say: < 1201885987 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not Emacs (but TINE) < 1201885995 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the pointer to (but TINE) is implicit in the TINE name < 1201886059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get round the fact that recursive acronyms otherwise have to be lazy? < 1201886069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least have a termination condition? < 1201886118 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1201886136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to go further than that < 1201886142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a recursive acronym that's capable of segfaulting < 1201886202 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but a copy of the expansion of X < 1201886289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1201886294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must make this into an esolang now < 1201886315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we get the emacs relation though < 1201886321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way you managed to keep it pronounceable, though < 1201886331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Emacs isn't a recursive acronym anyway AFAIR < 1201886341 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'zine bach ee ox' < 1201886350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i mean in the esolang. < 1201886359 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's based on the expansion of acronyms in a 'source' < 1201886371 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy, so: < 1201886379 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIARA=TIARA is a recursive acronym < 1201886380 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1201886381 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1201886390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its grammar would look like English; sort of like COBOL < 1201886401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it's string-rewriting and you refer to other commands with acronyms < 1201886401 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XINEBACEOX=XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX < 1201886410 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ^ is the 'force' operator, which implies consing < 1201886423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could write "a copy of the expansion of" and it would mean something in the language < 1201886429 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the interpreter is graphical if you run it from a terminal < 1201886431 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this program: < 1201886434 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XINEBACEOX=XINEBACEOX < 1201886436 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := < 1201886437 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1201886437 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1201886441 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XINEBACEOX=XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX < 1201886441 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := < 1201886443 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XINEBACEOX < 1201886448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ that program, when run, produces this: < 1201886475 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XINEBACEOX, XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX, XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but XINEBACEOX is not Emacs, but ^XINEBACEOX,... < 1201886481 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but expanded inline using ansi codes < 1201886488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh ... a recursive acronym quine! < 1201886557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just be a one-letter recursive acronym < 1201886576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the entry from the IAQ: "C is a recursive acronym. It stands for 'C'." < 1201886597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CITRORI - CITRORI is the result of running itself < 1201886638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... a declarative language < 1201886644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen any of those since Prolog < 1201886719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they not more common? < 1201886738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people haven't yet realized computers are unbelievably fast. < 1201886767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think that someone would have tried to create another by now < 1201886776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, they probably have, just I haven't heard of the result < 1201886779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... i'm fairly sure there are others < 1201886793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't seem to have any declarative esolangs yet < 1201886794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made a stub of one, for instance < 1201886803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was a bit eso < 1201886816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, matlab is kinda declarative < 1201886824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ainnit? < 1201886832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory of it is that it's pure imperative < 1201886840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I use a different set of features to you < 1201886846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never tried it. < 1201886868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1201886869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just assuming, since... well, it's math < 1201886910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a declarative language is one where you say what to do but not how < 1201886915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, APL's a bit like that < 1201886926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not exactly. < 1201886939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apl is declarative, in a way, just like functional languages < 1201886958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as much as Prolog < 1201886963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1201886979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, regexps and sql are declarative < 1201886979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a proper declarative language would, in my view, solve simultaneous equations without extra language features < 1201886990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the tc parts of sql are imperative, i guess < 1201887001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Prolog doesn't allow infinite backtracking of reals in arithmetic expressions... < 1201887018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I can type X=Y+1, X=2*Y-3 < 1201887036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in prolog? < 1201887037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can check the solution to the simultaneous equation < 1201887038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1201887041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way < 1201887042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't solve it if neither X nor Y are bound < 1201887051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1201887065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can work around the problem by putting in infinite number generators for X and Y < 1201887074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course that fails because the program then takes infinite time to run < 1201887079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncountably infinite, in fact < 1201887102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's really needed is some sort of clever reference scheme that allows such code to be legal and return a right answer each time < 1201887117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i've been thinking about adding axioms to a language < 1201887148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, so that you could specify axioms using which stuff like that is resolved. < 1201887262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my original idea was to get a book with mathematical proofs, and try to get my interp to solve them as i read it :D < 1201887285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tried that once < 1201887288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the result was lousy < 1201887290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the ones that are done using purely by manipulating symbols < 1201887296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that might be < 1201887303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tried to prove things by blind random search through the axioms and rules of inference... < 1201887317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i'd go for evolution < 1201887338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1201887347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually pretty much the same in this case < 1201887441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you manage to prove anything? < 1201887578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, everything it proved was true < 1201887583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly obvious and useless < 1201887636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you need to give it a prod to the right direction < 1201887687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i think i'll try that today < 1201888310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201889140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201889240 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-48-137.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1201889292 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201890099 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201890141 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1201890643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI < 1201890653 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO < 1201890743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol < 1201890747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ist thous alivest < 1201890760 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1201890815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too i guess < 1201890823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm alive < 1201890828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think... < 1201890862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :) < 1201890866 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol appears not to be < 1201890869 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i need an < 1201890870 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKLOPING < 1201890923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is usually alive when online < 1201890938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I actually turn my computer off when I'm not using it... < 1201890971 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol doesn't! < 1201890973 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okloping < 1201891128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever try to ping people on IRC using /ping? < 1201891131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1201891147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm pinged it shows up at my end < 1201891179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably doesn't set off the FLASH EVERYTHING alert < 1201891240 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oklopol's client sucks < 1201891270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even mine had beep-when-someone-says-your-nick support off by default < 1201891282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I now have an alternative I like better < 1201891314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm invited somewhere, Konversation says "XXX invited you to a channel" < 1201891323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY THX FOR THE INFO! :)) < 1201891345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it doesn't open the channel or anything) < 1201891351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, pong < 1201891378 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that all came < 1201891379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, i never turn off my computer, except when i have to < 1201891380 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at once. < 1201891382 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1201891397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you can send any sort of ctcp request to anyone < 1201891448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's #tmpchatwithais523oklopol < 1201891551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"looking for another connection..." < 1201892090 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1201892231 0 :ais523!n=ais523@st01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201894399 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how would you expect Konversation to behave? < 1201894417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: perhaps telling him what the channel is < 1201894435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's going on? < 1201894470 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1201894479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was having a furious argument about Lisp with ehird` in another channel < 1201894498 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly a furious argument < 1201894518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1201895091 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm thinking of writing an organizer-life application with emphasis on long-term stability and lack of bitrot < 1201895100 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1201895103 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*organizer-like < 1201895141 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the idea that 50 years from now it would work just as well as today, and compile and install very easily. < 1201895158 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: paul graham wants to give you money < 1201895188 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write it in arc (THE HUNDRED YEARS LANGUAGE REMEMBER) using its ASCII and support it will be a working webapp in 100 years < 1201895219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't heard of arc < 1201895228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION researches < 1201895302 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's a laughable dialect of lisp < 1201895305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it seems pretty clear that arc will not pass the "easy installation" requirement < 1201895314 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 years in development, and we get a 1000 line of scheme < 1201895316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler. < 1201895318 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it will most likely be completely lost < 1201895318 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sucks. < 1201895322 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hilarious. < 1201895330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ok, you need to upgrade your sarcasm detector < 1201895335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my conclusion was that i have to program in C89 without using any external libraries. < 1201895337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your project is infeasable < 1201895352 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os' might be totally differnt in 50 years < 1201895363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 was designed to be portable to anything < 1201895373 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was designed to be. < 1201895383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be the most important design rule of the standardisation < 1201895398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to imagine an OS architecture that a C89 compiler couldn't be written for < 1201895412 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: just that out of languages i know, c89 seems the most likely one to be available on any platform within my lifetime < 1201895428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: to be honest i can't see a point to your project < 1201895433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: think of it this way. There's a reason header file names are limited to 5.1 characters < 1201895449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... not 5, maybe 6? < 1201895454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 8, anyway < 1201895468 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that might be a myth. < 1201895642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string is 6 < 1201895685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is stdint < 1201895689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's C99 < 1201895711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems doing IO in pure c89 is pretty painful, though. < 1201895723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snprintf is missing < 1201895761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's a serious problem < 1201895766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to either aim at a temporary file < 1201895770 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, many modern computing devices already don't have a terminal emulator < 1201895778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to calculate the length in advance (which is frought with danger) < 1201895783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to use a different function than sprintf < 1201895793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a bit of pain to get one for, say, a cellphone, i would imagine < 1201895798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the lack of a terminal emulator; C89 never says you have to have one < 1201895810 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but you need to run the program somehow < 1201895812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that it requires for a hosted implementation are stdin, stdout and sterr streams < 1201895835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could connect to anything: files, for instance < 1201895863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure trying to design a program still easily usable in 50 years is a mistake. < 1201895865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, the standard stipulates that they need not actually be able to do any sending-receiving on things that aren't newline-terminated < 1201895875 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Publish the file format, make it simple and human-readable, write a MODERN program to munge it. < 1201895884 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the future, if anyone cares,t hey can write a program to manipulate it. < 1201895988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i think that might be a myth. < 1201896007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the draft standard, which guarantees 8.1 will be available, but no more < 1201896042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it simply has to provide unique mappings for the filenames, so it can choose a different naming structure if it likes < 1201896065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there's some C compiler for a computer with a weird filesystem that maps the extension of the file to a subdirectory that contains the files < 1201896077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1201896081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a .c file is in a subdirectory called c and a .h file is in a subdirectory called h < 1201896101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a method of complying with the standard while working around a stupid filename length limit < 1201896497 0 :RedDak!n=dak@79.18.81.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201897110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201897155 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201897848 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: you don't understand. Suppose it's a to-do list. < 1201897860 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your long-term goals < 1201897872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have it as a simple text file < 1201897878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edited with LamentsFancy2008Program < 1201897883 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way in the future, see it < 1201897890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see your text-only spec of the simple, human readable file format < 1201897897 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either read the file yourself or write a simple app to do it < 1201897907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1201897909 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, certainly < 1201897925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's nicer to have the simple app already written < 1201897939 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then...that's about 50 lines of c < 1201897945 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not work in the future < 1201897948 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1201898022 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why not just write a program you can always use < 1201898031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it needs to have a decent ui < 1201898052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still might not run in the future. < 1201898058 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i find 'a text editor' is good < 1201898073 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a text editor is not a to-do list :) < 1201898089 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a text editor is a great way to create and edit one < 1201898530 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201900378 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201902786 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201903266 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201903549 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1201904271 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201905072 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201906340 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201907546 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1201907698 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x24 terminals are so tiny :D < 1201907729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vt100.net/vt100.jpeg < 1201907729 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201907769 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80x24? What is that, a watch? < 1201908713 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: 80x24 text < 1201908714 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh. < 1201908719 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard for terminals < 1201908722 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including terminal emulators < 1201908735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: in that picture sure < 1201908735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1201908747 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suck < 1201909131 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a standard for terminals < 1201909136 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just vt100 < 1201909154 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a standard for terminal emulators :) < 1201909189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Asr33.jpg < 1201909278 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, I am number 5 < 1201909465 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a lisp machine < 1201909529 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make one < 1201909542 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHAZAM! < 1201909565 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are awfully pretty, it's true < 1201909569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LISP_machine.jpg < 1201909628 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the keyboard < 1201909628 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1201909631 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the editor! < 1201910110 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1201911074 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it emacs? < 1201911344 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: similar < 1201911346 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but moreawesomer < 1201912069 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim? :) < 1201912132 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201913277 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201913708 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-88-194-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201914070 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no way < 1201914072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for lisp. < 1201914081 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need an introspective, interacting and allt hat stuff editor for lisp < 1201914091 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lisp machine editor was so intwined with it < 1201914161 0 :danopia`school!i=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1201915445 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201916042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1201917805 0 :danopia`school!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :danopia < 1201925200 0 :danopia`school!i=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1201925305 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1201925306 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1201925307 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1201925307 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1201925307 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1201925309 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1201925437 0 :danopia`school!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :danopia < 1201925852 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201925856 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netsplit! Take cover! < 1201925861 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo < 1201925902 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1201925902 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1201926178 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1201926249 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201926468 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!" < 1201928848 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1201930646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1201933558 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1201937909 0 :faxathisia!n=more@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201939002 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Clap on! , Clap off! Clap@#&$NO CARRIER" < 1201939199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1201939200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1201942387 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1201942497 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"i are sleeps gnight" < 1201944716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Some other time" < 1201947515 0 :Figs!i=figs@dyn128-54-221-202.ucsd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1201947593 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1201947640 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Why did the programmer die in the shower? He wasn't using lazy evaluation when he read the instructs "lather, rinse, repeat." < 1201947663 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Why did the programmer die in the shower? He wasn't using lazy evaluation when he read the instructions "lather, rinse, repeat." < 1201947667 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1201948551 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201950110 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-48-137.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1201950753 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings < 1201950935 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And goodbye. < 1201950936 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1201951849 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1201953908 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1201953947 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201953969 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201954437 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201954808 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201955297 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201956082 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201958963 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201961914 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1201966413 0 :chuck!i=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1201970990 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1201971209 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201971474 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201971489 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201971577 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Why did the programmer die in the shower? He wasn't using lazy evaluation when he read the instructions "lather, rinse, Why did the programmer die in the shower? He wasn't < 1201972066 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1201972072 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201972401 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201972901 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1201973364 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201973606 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201974265 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201974842 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201976920 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201978333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1201978643 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201978788 0 :Tritonio__!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201978858 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201978930 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201979196 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201979541 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201979751 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1201980014 0 :rpsetzer!n=chatzill@82.77.86.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201980035 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello people! < 1201980059 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am interested in Malbolge < 1201980096 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stumbled upon some discussion logs from this channel < 1201980127 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a paper written in Japanese by Hisashi Iizawa < 1201980138 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that time, some tried to translate it < 1201980145 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, the links are dead < 1201980151 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1201980159 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thhe 99bob sites malbolge page < 1201980161 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a link to it < 1201980163 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1201980167 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201980168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the comment < 1201980168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1201980250 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A link to "Programming Method in Obfuscated Language Malbolge/me" in English? < 1201980258 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check again, I started from there < 1201980269 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in japanese < 1201980308 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn... < 1201980334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1201981100 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201981113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201981349 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-514fb24f.l2.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1201981377 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any luck rpsetzer? < 1201981406 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, the paper does not seem to exist in english < 1201981408 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1201981430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so translate it < 1201981437 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone knows Japanese? < 1201981439 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :babelfish might be a good start < 1201981442 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! yes, pikhq does < 1201981448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does Sukoshi, iirc, but they're not here < 1201981473 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I bet the translation will suck if done by a translation engine < 1201981475 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1201982404 0 :rpsetzer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1201982899 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201983153 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=5+x < 1201983200 0 :Tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1201983340 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okloping < 1201983356 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == NaN < 1201983367 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: no, x= < 1201983370 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In haskell.) < 1201983902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: pokloing < 1201984052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: faxoping < 1201984351 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sgeoping < 1201984380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1201984383 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1201984409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? can't talk now < 1201984640 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: finally < 1201985991 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1201986101 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okloping < 1201987192 0 :jix!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1201987197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody: anyping < 1201987973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201988080 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201988286 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you back? < 1201988606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repop < 1201988610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hies < 1201988619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to sleep, now, though :D < 1201988781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1201988781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1201988782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1201988784 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:) < 1201988948 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201988952 0 :chuck!i=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1201991008 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1201992332 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who IS alive? < 1201992586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1201992773 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1201992796 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myself < 1201992992 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello yourself. < 1201993467 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1201993470 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who else is aliev < 1201993471 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ve < 1201995004 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1201995491 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody is alive? ;) < 1201995714 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1201995731 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I need to reboot soon. I'm still in the dual-booting installing process < 1201996167 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK who is alive and alive constantly < 1201996401 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1201996543 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1201996649 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1201996732 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1201997057 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1201998248 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1201998372 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1201998394 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202000699 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1202001144 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202001755 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!" < 1202002480 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202002493 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202002975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1202003333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202003721 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202003734 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-88-194-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202003798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1202003854 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202005380 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202005403 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202005763 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202005982 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202005995 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202009267 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202010258 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202010288 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202010762 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202011073 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1202013792 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202014580 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202015291 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1202015360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202018115 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202018122 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202018306 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202022519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202022621 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202023791 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202023898 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202025207 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-194-165.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202025237 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1202025322 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1202025390 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is debugging a compiler and getting nowhere :/ < 1202025599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1202025600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1202025632 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1202025649 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked on my language in awhile, like a whole week < 1202025670 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just thought of another operator I could get rid of < 1202025705 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to minimize the number of operators in my lang, and until recently I had it down to parentheses, ' ', and '=' < 1202025734 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I can get rid of '=' and keep it Turring, complete < 1202025797 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this language ? < 1202025821 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started out as my frustration with Haskell, but it has evolved into Haskell-- < 1202025852 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1202025853 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously, ' ' it the function application operator < 1202025872 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your frustration with haskell? < 1202025885 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly with numeric types and type classes < 1202025895 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monadic stuff is really nice tho < 1202025905 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hate how Haskell does numbers < 1202025936 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has 3 exponentiation operators, I think that is rediculous < 1202025957 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. I think 3 is acceptable < 1202025972 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 4 makes more sense to me < 1202025973 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has 5 type classes (i.e. interfaces) for describing what Float and Double can do < 1202025987 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the names they use are rediculous < 1202026017 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It makes sense to describe exp inductively on N, understand it's properties, generalize it to Z, then Q) < 1202026036 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you make a new def. for R using pages and pages of calculus :S < 1202026052 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: 4 operators? thats silly you only need ^ in the (Num a) type class (which is where (*) is defined as well), and have it opperate differently when the context is (Num Float) < 1202026055 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do () = and ' ' do? < 1202026123 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, '()' do the obvious < 1202026134 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1202026135 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ' ' is function application, like Haskell < 1202026159 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but '=' is not quite like assignment, its used for pairing a key and a value < 1202026165 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that key does not need to be a literal < 1202026216 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example "c = ('a' = 1, 'b' = 2)" will make a function/hash-table such that when you apply it "c 'b'" the result is 2 < 1202026268 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the binding is between a pattern and an expression, the '=' operator becomes a lambda < 1202026305 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "c = (\x = (x*x))" defines the square function < 1202026315 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the /? < 1202026321 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps, why \ < 1202026329 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the \ is to distinguish between symbols and pattern-variables < 1202026345 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is the symbol/unquoted-string "x" < 1202026354 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x is a pattern that matches anything and binds it to x < 1202026378 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1202026389 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also resembles Haskells lambda syntax (\x -> x*x) < 1202026486 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was thinking about the binding operator, and I was wondering if it was really needed < 1202026566 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything can be though of as a query or a command anyways, and if there is no interpretation of either in the current namespace, then there would technically be an error, but if the error of not finding any current bindings was instead used as the method of binding, then the '=' operator is useless < 1202026588 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202026692 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make sense? < 1202026725 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, cool < 1202026750 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of (\x = (x*x)) you write (x*x) ? < 1202026763 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the square function would be defined as "sq \x (x*x)" < 1202026817 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this means lists could also be defined differently, as "ls 1 4" would equate to ls[1] = 4, its almost like prologizing everything < 1202026829 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of the mathematical distinction between functions and relations < 1202026834 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is very little difference < 1202026869 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since there is a binding for "ls 1", the evaluation gives the result "4" < 1202026953 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz in prolog all functions are basically booleans, if you want to assign "X = ls[1]" you have to write "nth(1, ls x)." thats what I meant by "prolog-izing" < 1202026981 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nth(1, ls, x). < 1202027013 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202027271 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: so what compiler are you working on? < 1202027281 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Janus < 1202027293 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a self interpreter, < 1202027305 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to compile programs to run in it < 1202027339 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I wrote an interpreter and compiler.. when the self interpreter doesn't work the problem could be.. anywhere :S < 1202027406 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should just write my own Sint based on theirs.. < 1202027500 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm whats Janus? < 1202027583 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the While language (minimalsit turing complete imperative), but every program can be run forwards or backwards < 1202027671 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, http://rafb.net/p/7HtmQg50.txt < 1202027733 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so its the forwards-backwards Janus < 1202027754 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I google'd some other Janus's related to Ada95 and Prolog < 1202027762 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1202027789 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rrsoftware.com/html/prodinf/janus95/j-ada95.htm < 1202027805 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1202027873 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a "Sint" < 1202027888 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self interpreter < 1202027892 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1202027918 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/Qc9qZq34.txt < 1202027928 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's extracted form a PDF < 1202028254 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. thx." < 1202028409 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is that PostScript then? < 1202028680 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that Janus? < 1202028756 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the self interpreter I am trying to make work < 1202028952 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1202029218 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202029365 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202031474 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host240-85-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1202032285 0 :chuck!i=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye JOIN :#esoteric < 1202033556 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202033699 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-27.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202034840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202035847 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1202037905 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202038655 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202041735 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202047543 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202048320 0 :n0nsense!n=chatzill@p57B3AC51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1202048355 0 :n0nsense!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202050214 0 :n0nsense!n=chatzill@p57B3AC51.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1202050224 0 :n0nsense!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202054143 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202055435 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202055479 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202057310 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202059140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202059235 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202061385 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202061471 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pings back at ehird < 1202061481 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's some shite networking < 1202062623 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg, the asshole paul graham patented continuation-based webservers: http://www.google.com/patents?id=WE8GAAAAEBAJ&dq=6205469 < 1202062657 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION LOL @ "the asshole paul graham" < 1202062686 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also agrees with this after reading him talking nonsense about Prolog < 1202062730 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Weird since Linus probably doesn’t use TextMate.' i'm suprised this had to be qualified with 'probably' < 1202062744 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because linux definately edits on a mac < 1202062775 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linus sometimes uses Mac OS and TextMate < 1202062788 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's when he is doing ruby on rails work < 1202062804 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's rewriting the kernel in rails < 1202062808 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1202062815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's productive < 1202062816 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whlie flying around in a pink elephant < 1202062823 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's considering switching to arc < 1202062828 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for speed < 1202063392 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: you'll hate this guy re: prolog too http://www.yosefk.com/blog/high-level-cpu-follow-up.html < 1202063476 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's just some guy who can't program and no-ones likely to listen to < 1202063542 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could question pg's programming ability too < 1202063558 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do :P < 1202063567 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: he does make hardware, though: http://www.yosefk.com/blog/the-high-level-cpu-challenge.html < 1202063590 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg, tcl on board < 1202063594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst idea ever < 1202064369 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202064390 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202064947 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202065309 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION performs necromancy. < 1202065323 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just resurrected a 6-month-dead thread. < 1202065336 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost a century in Internet years. < 1202065343 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brillant. < 1202065355 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1202065413 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Paul Graham: the bastard! < 1202065451 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202065498 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1202065527 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, this chatterbot makes me sick: http://rome.purepistos.net/mathetes/ < 1202065533 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been on his fucking website for several years! < 1202065552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says i'm not a human because i'm not catholic :) < 1202065558 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: seriously? < 1202065564 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1202065564 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1202065565 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202065571 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was filed in 1997, so him describing it on his website < 1202065573 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't count < 1202065626 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1202065691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: but this is an example why software patents are sickening < 1202065713 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read what he says about software patents? < 1202065745 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1202065797 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has written an essay on why software patents are not particularly evil < 1202065829 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202065846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest the 'software patent' stuff is pretty misguided: patents, full stop, are broken < 1202065858 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can understand the core idea to a degree but everything on top of that is hideously wrong < 1202066365 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202066451 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.228.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202066462 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202066601 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1202066852 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202068840 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_chuck[server] < 1202069970 0 :_chuck[server]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chuck < 1202070528 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-14-212.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1202070883 0 :Hiat1!n=Hiato@dsl-245-14-212.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1202070907 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202071796 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202071808 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chuck-blah < 1202071810 0 :chuck-blah!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chuck < 1202071984 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202073869 0 :und3f!n=und3f@airing-toothbrush.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202073874 0 :und3f!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202073913 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host160-80-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1202074226 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you know you talked about segfault handling for a bf interp? < 1202074233 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://libsigsegv.sourceforge.net/ portable lib to do it < 1202074234 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1202074602 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes < 1202074908 0 :Hiat1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202075102 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah why are revision controlsystems always mutable? < 1202075104 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1202075109 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystems should never modify data! < 1202075273 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, MINE will be an immutable, garbage-collected filesystem database! :D < 1202075913 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202077103 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1202079030 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202079267 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libsigsegv could be a fun way to implement a really esoteric language implementation < 1202079291 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking a ->C Cheney on the MTA compiler, using libsigsegv to allocate *all* memory and its stack overflow detection to unwind < 1202086561 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1202086590 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202086984 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how crazy an esoteric language can get re: modifiable syntax < 1202087009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something that starts off dirt-simple forth-style parsing, then is extended in itself into a crazy crescendo of modifiable, extendable, pluggable, composable syntax from hell < 1202088256 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-41-215.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202088411 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: it's called "Perl" < 1202088431 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202088443 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite - it doesn't have extendable syntax to that degree < 1202088451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1202089146 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1202092732 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202093935 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-194-165.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202093949 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sad < 1202093965 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found two languages which are nearly Identical to my dream language < 1202094240 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1202094261 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202094661 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: that sucks < 1202094669 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say there's two... < 1202094712 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io (no keywords, i like) and Z (functions == relations, i like) < 1202094779 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io method syntax: Object method Args < 1202094791 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z function syntax: Function Args < 1202094801 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have minimal syntax as well < 1202096202 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202098097 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202101653 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202102472 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202104663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202105240 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202108058 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202109055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202110369 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202110777 0 :chuck_!i=charlie@12-205-155-236.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202111017 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202111999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1202112000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1202112009 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1202113007 0 :Aatch!n=Aatch@ip-118-90-92-129.xdsl.xnet.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202114164 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. thx." < 1202116210 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, Yeah that's what I want < 1202116244 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, Just getting a really good mixfix parser and hooking it up to whatever lambda calculus you want < 1202119155 0 :Aatch!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202119293 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!" < 1202122717 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202125792 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202126218 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202128350 0 :chuck_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chuck < 1202132802 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202134345 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1202136487 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202139360 0 :faxathisia!n=more@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202139368 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!Huh < 1202139371 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1202143779 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202143799 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1202143827 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202144532 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202144717 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1202146230 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-27.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202148378 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202148985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okloping < 1202150084 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : b:4>@[n;&0n=n:+/_sqr 50{c+(-/x*x;2*/x)}/c:+,/(-1.5+2*(!w)%w),/:\:-1+2*(!w)%w:200;:;4];`mandel.pbm 6:"P4\n",(5:2#w),"\n",_ci 2_sv'-1 8#,/+(2#w)#b < 1202150092 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish K systems still offered a free interpreter. < 1202150117 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apologies, Kx systems < 1202150144 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202150155 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202150179 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202150199 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202150208 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it stands now I can't even see how you can pay them for one < 1202150331 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unfortunate < 1202150384 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches "Barack Obama @ Google" < 1202150386 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a pity I can't vote for him < 1202150459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... doesn't the US presidential candidate foreigners like best usually turn out too left-wing for americans? < 1202150472 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: he's probably the best one left.. this is unsuprising, e.g. kucinich had no hope in hell so his dropping out is unimportant (though apart from the ufo stuff he was great) < 1202150493 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also note that reading k comments changes how i type like this. damn you, kx systems and your commenting style < 1202150498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he dropped out because he was abducted by aliens? < 1202150524 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: what is this commenting style? < 1202150526 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: possibly :p < 1202150553 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: lowercase, concise, not always grammatically correct < 1202150554 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they got Hillary back that would make an alarmingly-long time with only Bushes and Clintons in the House < 1202150554 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/bell.k < 1202150562 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: heh < 1202150581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like k code < 1202150605 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kx.com/a/k/examples/read.k some more kx systems commenting in the same style < 1202150642 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, forthy < 1202150654 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no < 1202150654 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL-y < 1202150662 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a derivative < 1202150675 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is some cray line-noise syntax < 1202150679 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crazy < 1202150687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: pretty much like APL, but sans crazy characters < 1202150691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it < 1202150692 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen it before, but it still surprises me < 1202150695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/14/22741/791 this is good stuff < 1202150703 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately if you go to kx.com there's no reference to it < 1202150713 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&they seem to not offer interpreters for it any more, beyond the obvious one you need to run their kdb+ software < 1202150724 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1202150730 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could implement one yourself maybe? < 1202150739 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for playing it doesn't need to be fast < 1202150751 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: k is a large language. < 1202150754 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of built in stuff. < 1202150758 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor would you need all the libraries from the beginning < 1202150759 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1202150766 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all code uses most of them. < 1202150777 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's k style < 1202150789 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their interpreter is very concise though. < 1202150796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no language spec < 1202150801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternate interpreter would be hard < 1202150841 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ther is a manual and a dictionary though < 1202150845 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1202150846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1202150890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: plus i don't really want to damage kx's profits etc < 1202150899 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think for something like k they deserve it ;) < 1202150949 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i can't really afford kdb+ just to try out k < 1202150950 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202150964 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-one would use your terp in place of their product < 1202150977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, look at J, which is similar I hear < 1202150985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well, they used to commercially sell the interp. < 1202151007 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they were still interested in that they would still be selling it < 1202151027 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you could email them about it < 1202151046 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure they would like to hear from a fan < 1202151089 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, i'll keep searching for a copy of the interp though < 1202151089 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202151096 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used to offer a free one < 1202151132 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k is hard to google < 1202151165 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much unlike c < 1202151223 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is popular enough < 1202151236 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d has the same problem except k is more obscure so it is almost impossible < 1202151259 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have to use the web archie < 1202151262 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*archive < 1202151279 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202151279 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really hard to turn haskell into scheme... < 1202151294 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along the way I found K Links put up by the other of the kuro5hin article, and "No Stinking Loops", a collection of links for various APL-derived languages; interpreting the latter my best guess is that versions 2 and 3 of K are obsolete and version 4 is now called "Q". < 1202151296 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is confusing < 1202151308 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh: < 1202151308 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be the case that you could download a demo version of K from the Kx website. However, in 2003 Kx systems released Q which merges the features of K and Ksql and is meant to be the successor to both. At some point they deleted the K download since it is no longer a featured language; however they did not add a Q download. Kx still offers trial versions of Q, but it is on a by request basis. Abcarter 15:05, 25 August 2006 (U < 1202151308 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC) < 1202151316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i doubt an email from a fan would help then:) < 1202151339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A correction and a comment. I had thought that Q was the successor to both ksql and k. It is the successor to ksql and it does merge the features of ksql and k, however it is still written entirely in k, though a newer version. It would be nice for Kx to offer older versions of k without support, but it's not clear that it is in their interest to do so. Abcarter 00:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC) < 1202151340 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1202151341 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;s confusing < 1202151536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:K_%28programming_language%29 take a look at the prototype j interp < 1202151539 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very epic < 1202151651 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc complains about it :) < 1202151659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure enough it works < 1202151672 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, 1/0 segfaults < 1202151681 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does any unrecognized instruction < 1202151684 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1202151734 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i am talking a lot < 1202152051 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1202152055 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it even define 'mv'?:| < 1202152069 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1202152070 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202152217 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202152250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird` < 1202152257 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1202152263 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just blabbing on endlessly about k < 1202152277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular arthur's first prototype j interp: http://rafb.net/p/zcG1y584.txt < 1202152361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks pretty obfuscated for an interpreter... < 1202152394 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ever read k/j code? < 1202152402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202152416 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/bell.k < 1202152422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bell labs benchmark < 1202152430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more impressive: < 1202152434 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kx.com/a/k/read.k translates k code into english < 1202152502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs the original paste through cpp and indent < 1202152515 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wouldn't < 1202152519 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not k/j style < 1202152534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might at least give me a chance of reading it more easily... < 1202152535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly if you want to understand code written in those languages you should get used to code like that < 1202152546 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a slow read through it will be beneficial < 1202152548 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202152549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has written code like that before < 1202152561 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, but has your code powered banks and stuff? < 1202152573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202152575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or full enterprise-quality relational databases? < 1202152583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd be crazy to run code that isn't well-commented and indented < 1202152585 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically THAT doesn't but the k interp is tiny and really fast and IS used for those < 1202152589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would be harder to spot the bugs < 1202152598 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, not with k.. it's a paradigm shift. < 1202152604 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the .k files i showed you < 1202152615 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's an APL descendant < 1202152653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about the C code you pasted originally < 1202152657 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/14/22741/791 this is a good explanation of why k is like that < 1202152664 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is basically in the style of k/j code, that c code. < 1202152692 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cpp+indent won't help you. i tried for amusement < 1202152699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does help < 1202152772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know if there is a way to make a template or something for catseye URLs so we don't have to change them all on the wiki every time cpressey moves around? < 1202152781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shouldn't be too hard < 1202152822 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1202152824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall i make one? < 1202152851 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :template name=catseye, and i only need to handle the domain not filepaths < 1202152852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1202152859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1202152872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes please :) < 1202152885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do a template which was used along the lines of {{catseye|projects/worb/|description}} < 1202152892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, we want to be able to do file paths < 1202152902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be able to < 1202152907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by putting more between the two | signs < 1202152919 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current url? < 1202152925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye.tc < 1202152928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the template's code: < 1202152938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[http://catseye.tc/{{{1}}} {{{2}}}] < 1202152964 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, i've added fancy comments to make changing the url easy < 1202152968 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a bit overboard < 1202152977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, making wikis easy to use is important < 1202152988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might even want to add documentation in a < 1202153086 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope mediawiki strips comments decently < 1202153126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay gimme a second < 1202153129 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logging in to test it < 1202153162 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1202153168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default it uses its second parameter as the description < 1202153171 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the catseye.tc stuff < 1202153179 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it should have the http://catseye.tc/... in with it < 1202153180 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed? < 1202153209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oo crap, you know mw right? is there a way to like save a variable or something < 1202153215 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i could do template:catseye being < 1202153221 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{catseye/inner|theurl}} < 1202153228 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with /inner having nowikis around the argument places < 1202153234 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that metaness would work. < 1202153240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at what I've done so far < 1202153240 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would it? < 1202153247 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i know < 1202153247 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1202153253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at < 1202153258 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1202153260 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you edited my stuff < 1202153262 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202153268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, it's a wiki... < 1202153273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default is currently parameter 1 < 1202153276 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah but i was working on it < 1202153276 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1202153283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can change it by putting things between the | and the }}} < 1202153293 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know mw templates < 1202153465 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1202153467 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost got it working < 1202153468 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1202153500 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1202153501 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me < 1202153506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: got it, just give me a second < 1202153561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're only passing one param to catseye/inner, rather than 2, and MW params are 1-based not 0-based < 1202153574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to pass in {{{0}}} is to explicitly write 0= in the template call to give a named parameter < 1202153575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1202153575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1202153624 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1202153627 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it apart from one case < 1202153630 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i am about to fix now < 1202153648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in: < 1202153651 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{{a|b}}} < 1202153654 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can b include argument refs? < 1202153657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202153674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious < 1202153688 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is catseye/inner < 1202153688 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[http://{{{1}}}/{{{2}}} {{{3| http://{{{1}}}/{{{2}}} }}}] < 1202153697 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the {{{1}}}{{{2}}} arent getting expanded < 1202153702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you passing it three arguments? < 1202153742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the problem is that you need to write {{{1|}}} and {{{2|}}} in the main catseye template < 1202153751 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1202153752 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1202153754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise if param 2 is missing you pass it the literal string {{{2}}} rather than a blank string < 1202153775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait! < 1202153778 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to default to [1] etc < 1202153780 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since htat's what MW does < 1202153782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the full url < 1202153786 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1202153799 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that catseye is always isomorphic to []s < 1202153820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you want a null string as the default < 1202153828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it autonumbers the URL < 1202153832 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent, ais523 -- i fixed it up < 1202153846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its dirt simple to change the url, since it's right there, easily visible < 1202153863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now -- how do we get all pages that link to a url containing catseye < 1202153865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next problem is to find all the links to catseye < 1202153878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you'd do that using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Special:Linksearch, but it appears to not be installed on Esolang < 1202153927 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only we could run arbitary code on the wiki server! < 1202153930 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. < 1202153932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202153950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API is disabled, too, so checking all the pages by hand is likely to be the only option < 1202153991 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a better idea. < 1202153996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1202154009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume [[Chris Pressey]] is a good place to start < 1202154024 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll write a program that wget's every entry on the language list concurrently, tries to find catseye in a url, and saves it to disk if it finds it :D < 1202154029 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can run a script to do the replacement! \o/ < 1202154037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1202154077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i should go write it < 1202154077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1202154090 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is either going to be a superb use for perl, or a hilariously evil use for bash < 1202154118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some links have been changed to catseye.tc, while some are still the broken catseye.webhop.net < 1202154142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, they're both wrong < 1202154143 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202154167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might even be some wayback links hiding in there, unless cpressey fixed it all < 1202154185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries opening up the Esolang database dump in Emacs to find the links that way < 1202154192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, database dump < 1202154193 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good idea < 1202154206 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok here's the plan < 1202154212 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shout out a page name to me and i'll magically fix it < 1202154224 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will multithread and also look myself. < 1202154237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge < 1202154288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots in the history of the language list < 1202154298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think all the external links are supposed to have been removed from there < 1202154315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed pages: befunge,ALPACA < 1202154339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smallfuck < 1202154352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wierd < 1202154379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMETANA < 1202154391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beta-Juliet < 1202154414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to SMETANA < 1202154433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric programming language < 1202154446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muriel < 1202154456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPACA < 1202154463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you've done that one already...) < 1202154471 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to Esoteric < 1202154471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMITH < 1202154481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUBE < 1202154496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blank < 1202154508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hunter < 1202154524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noit o' mnain worb < 1202154534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RedGreen < 1202154535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to SMITH < 1202154554 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a note < 1202154556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SARTRE < 1202154562 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're getting some catseye.tc//foo because of the / in the links < 1202154563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats ok though < 1202154586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue < 1202154597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ypsilax < 1202154598 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're welcome to help too :-P < 1202154605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1202154605 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am up to RUBE < 1202154615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strelnokoff < 1202154624 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blank < 1202154629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2iota < 1202154648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version < 1202154664 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to hunter < 1202154666 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database is being flakey < 1202154667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1202154670 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much more? < 1202154676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oops? < 1202154686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1202154698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only 4% of the way through the dump but that isn't a very reliable measurement < 1202154712 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope these aren't just the first 4% < 1202154712 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1202154716 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you strip all the HISTORY out? < 1202154718 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might help. < 1202154731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current versions are stored separately from the history < 1202154737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm viewing the current versions at the moment < 1202154743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the history makes up the bulk of the dump < 1202154750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why 4% is such a low number < 1202154763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. we get all the links we're interested in first < 1202154765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1202154771 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you grep to find the history section < 1202154773 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then kill to EOF? < 1202154774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: i tried starting from the back but someone already did ;) < 1202154796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I don't know enough about the layout of a MW database dump to do that reliably < 1202154803 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to Thue by the way < 1202154809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shelta done < 1202154813 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: grep for obvious things? :P < 1202154820 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, grep for a page name you've already seen < 1202154835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with all the links in the wiki? < 1202154836 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just done thue < 1202154839 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True.. < 1202154845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be easier just to add to the list than try to find its end < 1202154845 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep without [[]] around? < 1202154867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Ypsilax < 1202154882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squishy2k < 1202154914 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to 2iota < 1202154925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chris Pressey < 1202154935 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fixed that one already. < 1202154939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beturing < 1202154947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braktif < 1202154959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shelta < 1202154969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ILLGOL < 1202154975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did Shelta < 1202154981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bear Food < 1202154993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDPN < 1202155011 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mouse skills sure are improving! < 1202155023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sally: this page seems to have identical content to Bear Food; maybe worth investigating if one or the other of the pages are vandalism? < 1202155037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squishy2K < 1202155043 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bear food is legit < 1202155046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tamerlane < 1202155056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB < 1202155058 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Bear Food < 1202155068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star W < 1202155074 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sally and Bear Food are legit < 1202155077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circute < 1202155088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sbeezg < 1202155098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PESOIX < 1202155117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it for mainspace < 1202155142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Tamerlane < 1202155148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, there's more... < 1202155150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vertica Smile < 1202155169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to TURKEY BOMB < 1202155170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that, I was right first time < 1202155174 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What about other namespaces? < 1202155193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk:Braktif < 1202155197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Star W < 1202155213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Bear food link is now incorrect < 1202155223 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: {{sofixit}} < 1202155243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric Topics in Computer Programming < 1202155245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to sbeezg < 1202155249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, it seems they aren't sorted by namespace after all < 1202155269 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsck. < 1202155288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot find the right page < 1202155289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it < 1202155304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gone past the end of the article-text table and ended up in the links table < 1202155307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think that's everything < 1202155310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I missed one < 1202155395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the new links point to 404s at Catseye, by the way < 1202155397 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric Topics in Computer Programming -- no suitable link < 1202155400 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah.. < 1202155402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs some fixup < 1202155403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll have to check which ones actually do need waybacking < 1202155407 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, recent changes. < 1202155409 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll be easy < 1202155414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i for one have worn out my fingers for now < 1202155428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dominate Recent Changes < 1202155429 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1202155478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Catseye if we need to find all the pages in the future for some reason < 1202155563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1202155569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my /inner trick is no longer neccessary < 1202155583 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will remove < 1202155657 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okies < 1202155664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for your comments about K < 1202155669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it looks like what GolfScript ought to be < 1202155675 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, indeed < 1202155678 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's serious! < 1202155690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees no reason why a language like that cannot be serious < 1202155692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should the link to Cat's Eye Technologies: Esoteric Topics in Computer Programming from Esoteric programming language be reverted to wayback, or changed to projects? < 1202155701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, it was an article < 1202155704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about the column itself < 1202155705 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so find the article or leave it < 1202155710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should probably be the Wayback link < 1202155716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the article isn't on catseye any more < 1202155739 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Number+lines my challenge is pretty interesting! < 1202155740 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1202155782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I entered that one already < 1202155785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 9th for Perl entries < 1202155789 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, speaking of which, who here uses reddit? http://reddit.com/r/programming/info/67myb/comments/ the prototype j interp < 1202155789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not really very good < 1202155795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its at 0 points right now, so..:) < 1202155815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still winning outright on Perl ROT13s, though < 1202155839 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Minimal+scheme+interpreter look, all the lovely cheats! < 1202155842 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only my examples were OK < 1202155852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: my entry doesn't rot13 punctuation marks between Z and a properly, but it doesn't need to based on the examples given) < 1202155870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may also exploit UB in the Perl implementation < 1202155886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Minimal+scheme+interpreter/notogawa%28embed%29/1201272045&hs <-- ooh, clever < 1202155986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell in the style of Prolog! < 1202155986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the? < 1202156080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah just a typo < 1202156116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is upset that there aren't more genuine entries in the Underload contest < 1202156183 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?simple+language the one challenge that nobody will not cheat on! < 1202156184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Perl entry is genuine (although not quite compliant); there are also Ruby and PostScript entries that look genuine < 1202156200 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funnest thing about mine is that the only primitive stuff is the infix ops < 1202156200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about the large C one, because I don't understand the word in the parens < 1202156204 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like : and {...} and * + etc < 1202156211 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is called like a composite < 1202156217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because {} is a lambda < 1202156241 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think hidoi=embed < 1202156244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mugoi=genuine < 1202156249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1202156262 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those crazy japanese rubyist golfers < 1202156466 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ought to write some c code like the j interp < 1202156573 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out what the "rsh" thing is in that APL-like terp < 1202156586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: evilness < 1202156596 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evilness and DEATH < 1202156654 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that interp isn't intentionally like that, btw. that's just how the guy codes. he went on to create K, and his product KDB by Kx systems has *no loops at all* < 1202156655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none. < 1202156659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a full freaking rdbms < 1202156723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is APL 2D? < 1202156726 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1202156727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it ought to have been < 1202156750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's nothing wrong with using combinators to avoid needing to write loops < 1202156753 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, reshape < 1202156756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several languages use that method < 1202156770 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a nice feature < 1202156783 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't use combinators, really < 1202156788 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses some weird stuff < 1202156796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and no, because that's actually the opposite of apl philosophy < 1202156811 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo, surely it must have a wait-for-input loop? < 1202156818 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, few others are needed < 1202156826 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just implicit loops in various things < 1202156835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: K's adverbs remind me of combinators < 1202156841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though technically speaking they aren't < 1202156866 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: beats me, all i know is that they have 0 loops in their code < 1202156871 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been verified by them multiple times < 1202156879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting for input isn't a loop < 1202156879 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202156882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just waiting for input < 1202156895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like sleep commands which wait for time needn't be loops < 1202156941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short waits (a few microseconds) on PIC microcontrollers, for instance, are often achieved by putting in several useless flow-control commands so as to cause the microcontroller to waste time figuring out how to follow them < 1202156948 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/computer.jpg this is ... brilliant < 1202156972 0 :danopia!i=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1202156972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiming a CALL at a RETURN of a procedure you already have takes it a whole 4 us to process, with just one machine-language word < 1202156978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas most commands run in 1 us < 1202156986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, hah < 1202156998 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's ironic, of course -- which loads of people don't seem to grok. < 1202157002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1202157005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, you could create really evil obfuscated code by combining that sort of thing with the built in clock cycle counter... < 1202157007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, of course it is ironic < 1202157021 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: some people have thought it was serious < 1202157035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did? < 1202157036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1202157052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with some americans, you never know, they could mean it < 1202157116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finished checking the recent changes. Good night. < 1202157135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202157154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what recent changes? < 1202157155 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1202157156 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1202157160 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he dropped asleep < 1202157161 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was: < 1202157168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'omg..last change... i can..make it....urghfdkgh' < 1202157192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we made fun of chris pressey^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H made a template for catseye links and changed all of them to it < 1202157194 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the domain changes often < 1202157220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1202157231 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1202157248 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the REPL < 1202157265 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the thing that waits for incoming connections to a db, or wheatever < 1202157306 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it has 0 loops < 1202157309 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all i know < 1202157329 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best low-level trick I have seen is calling the next instruction: you execute everything up to the next return, return, then execute it again, and return from the original subroutine < 1202157336 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: so yuo said < 1202157405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that's the method used for constants in Modular SNUSP < 1202157415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I am very impressed by < 1202157420 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1202157465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some examples on the wiki < 1202157480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/SNUSP < 1202157525 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third line of (rsh) is an evil trick < 1202157533 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what does rsh do < 1202157551 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reshape, on that obfuscate C thing posted earlier < 1202157564 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it "reshapes" an array < 1202157586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not obfuscated, SimonRC.. < 1202157590 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third line uses an overlapped move if the destination is much bigger than the source < 1202157591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just how arthur codes.. < 1202157596 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1202157609 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy who helped create J (that's a basic interp for j), and Kx guy < 1202157610 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he made K, too < 1202157611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and KDB+ < 1202157615 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1202157622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he in all honesty codes C just like that link.. < 1202157656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unusual thing is not that he codes like that, but that he codes like that even with people watching < 1202157673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the literal kind of people watching? < 1202157676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. over-his-shoulder < 1202157682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the Internet < 1202157693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you mean publishing his code? < 1202157699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written code like that, and I assume most coders have at some point, but not if anyone else is likely to read it < 1202157701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure. he advocates concise programming like that < 1202157706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I would feel the need to explain it < 1202157711 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, K is totally based around that kind of stuff < 1202157737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that #defining language constructs to give them shorter names would be considered by many people to be excessive abbreviation < 1202157780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most companies would probably fire people for it < 1202157782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unless you were raised on APL, like he was :-) < 1202157798 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and unless you found your own company and make loads of money selling enterprise-level database systems! < 1202157801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1202157802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you aware of how the IOCCC got started in the first place? < 1202157815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It sneezed out of arthur's nose? < 1202157824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some major piece of software, I think maybe UNIX sh, was written in C < 1202157834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with #defines to look like some other language, maybe ALGOL or Pascal < 1202157841 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh yes < 1202157845 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing < 1202157860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of the IOCCC creators was working on the code and put out a Net-wide challenge for people to find code harder to work with < 1202157876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the record: this is a paraphrase, not the literal story) < 1202157937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of 'serious' obfuscated c: the joy interp is quite odd < 1202157967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you looking at the joy interpreter? < 1202157977 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: huh? < 1202157991 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't i? < 1202157997 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1202158000 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno... it's joy? < 1202158023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with Joy < 1202158045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that 2008 will be the year of concatenative languages < 1202158054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least ought to be < 1202158062 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure. < 1202158062 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really a fan of concatentative languages for practical purposes < 1202158078 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reocmmnds that people get a copy of ColorForth < 1202158087 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to use, but just to read Chuck's code < 1202158089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what you mean by 'practical' < 1202158090 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is amazing < 1202158096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm coding for speed/portability, I use C < 1202158102 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: amazing? < 1202158106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm not, I use whatever lang I like < 1202158117 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a real insite as to just how small programs can be < 1202158121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normally aim for what I consider elegant < 1202158125 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: chuck is my favourite insane outsider programmer guy! < 1202158133 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuck's and insider < 1202158138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normally consider concatenative langs to be elegant for any particular job < 1202158139 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: err < 1202158145 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's been doing programming his whole career < 1202158150 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuck: unless you're chuck moore, not you < 1202158156 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah < 1202158159 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay hahah < 1202158162 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1202158163 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1202158180 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that Chuck Moore is usually called "chipChuck" < 1202158213 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ISTR anyway < 1202158241 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Seem To Recall < 1202158246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Seem To Remember < 1202158259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably either depending on context < 1202158266 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that J terp needs at least a few comments < 1202158272 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: bah, comments < 1202158279 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like chipChuck's commenting style would work great < 1202158286 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments are for losers, unless they're only used once every 15 lines, like in k code < 1202158306 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thinks that 5 words and a stack picture are enough for a whole function < 1202158308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments are useful when learning a language < 1202158314 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where function is one of those things < 1202158316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have some assembly code where every line is commented < 1202158319 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arthur is hardly learning c < 1202158321 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202158325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was a program I was learning on < 1202158334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, the colorforth distro has disappeared it seems < 1202158336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are also useful for helping other people understand your code < 1202158336 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from colorforth.com < 1202158342 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, 1 or two words for each of those operators would be enough and really help < 1202158347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it's a case of "why did you do that" rather than "what are you doing" < 1202158353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a windows port of colorForth < 1202158417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where HAS his code gone < 1202158435 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1202158441 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.colorforth.com/install.htm < 1202158454 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't share his source. < 1202158476 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WinColorForth" or something like that < 1202158504 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas the editor is not written in cf :-( < 1202158528 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a modification so you can't crash the icon editor by going beyond the last icon < 1202158541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to write some c code like that interp, but have no idea where to start :| < 1202158559 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, doesn't it interpret as-read? < 1202158565 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does plus do: read_expr() or something < 1202158579 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chipChuck also made a chip editor and simulator in 20k that simulates his chip better than the multi-$100,000 professional ones do < 1202158666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read thedailywtf.com, that won't surprise you in the least < 1202158690 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: http://www.nsl.com/papers/origins.htm wowzers! the original interp had one-space indentation and some blank lines < 1202158722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-space indentation is a sure sign of a golfer at heart < 1202158803 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no -- no indentation is < 1202158820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other reasons to use no indentation < 1202158835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 1-space gives the impression of "do I really have to indent this? Stop forcing me to indent!" < 1202158860 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I think that interpreter may have platform-specific fragments < 1202158874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it segfaults < 1202158914 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am quite confused as to what the # and , operators do < 1202158921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, { too < 1202158932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ also does some weird stuff < 1202158987 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is either z or l taken as proglang names? < 1202158994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z is < 1202159008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oklopong < 1202159010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use   < 1202159016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a really short lang name < 1202159036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've HTML-encoded that so it shows up readably on IRC) < 1202159064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if is taken as a name < 1202159075 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick to writing code like that is to keep refactoring and to readily chuck away features < 1202159101 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m/^(a*)b\1$/ a^nba^n matcher in perl < 1202159119 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut away all unnecessary layers of absraction, then cut away a few ones you thought were necessary too < 1202159122 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuck away moore features < 1202159129 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202159131 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan < 1202159142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile your code at max optimisation and decompile it again < 1202159147 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202159153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max space optimisation < 1202159161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but optimised for 'generic' < 1202159167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not generic < 1202159170 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specific < 1202159175 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAGNI < 1202159176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how common are compilers for a lang into itself? < 1202159184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that optimise the code but leave it legal in the original lang < 1202159225 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1398015 i like this language < 1202159295 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Examples of functional languages are Lisp, and Forth.' whut < 1202159355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Lisp is certainly capable of being functional < 1202159370 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1202159377 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking more of the forth reference < 1202159388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that much about Forth, but from what I know I would expect that it can be written in a vaguely functional style if necessary < 1202159423 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no < 1202159423 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is the antifunctional language. < 1202159437 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: back me up here i'm lazy :P < 1202159469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back and forth < 1202159483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too tired to make a pun, but you get my point < 1202159493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most langs can be written in a vaguely functional style < 1202159517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the ones which are ridiculously imperative, to the extent that they don't even have second-class functions like C < 1202159517 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION re-reads < 1202159540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Prolog, of course, which still manages to be entirely unlike anything else and yet somehow mainstream < 1202159546 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is low-level with super-duper macros < 1202159563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have an eval command? < 1202159568 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ais523 < 1202159568 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of forth doesn't even have dynamic allocation: everything is static < 1202159569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1202159579 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is far too old, and low-level for that < 1202159585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, in that case writing it functionally would probably be quite difficult < 1202159594 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas almost all functional langs have GC < 1202159618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda only needs reference-counting < 1202159679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, most langs end up needing GC when they get advanced enough < 1202159700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent versions of C-INTERCAL, for instance, need GC to find and remove inaccessible portions of threads < 1202159716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Being able to backtrack past fork() really puts a strain on a language.) < 1202159741 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use the boehm gc for that? right? right?! < 1202159747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting < 1202159765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within libickmt.a, so it's transparent to the user < 1202159773 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1202159776 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boehm is superiaur < 1202159787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boehm is slower, and not always right < 1202159800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcount is fine because so far, luckily, there's no way to get into a loop of thread-referencing < 1202159822 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, boehm never frees something it shouldn't. let's put it that way < 1202159822 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcount sucks on the cache behaviour < 1202159828 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yep < 1202159830 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: wel... < 1202159844 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: and naw, i'm pretty sure it never frees something it shouldn't. < 1202159850 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it counts everything < 1202159860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it causes a memory leak, though < 1202159864 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can legally write a pointer to a file and read it in in C, thereby hiding it from the collector < 1202159885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, so far, it's impossible to send an INTERCAL thread across a network < 1202159887 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, especially if you don't null your list pointers < 1202159897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL apparently allows file-handles to be sent across a network < 1202159913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reading or writing to them will read or write to the relevant file in the remote location < 1202159914 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fake pointer that hits a linked-list node will retain the entire list unless you null pointers < 1202159928 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: and.. does c-intercal do this < 1202159933 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1202159937 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1202159945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't currently null down the list, I don't think < 1202159950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just decrements the refcount < 1202159957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, those pointers might be being used by something else < 1202159970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the refcount is necessary because it actually affects the semantics of the language < 1202160001 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in Boheme GC < 1202160005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the threads act sort-of like a tree. When a thread dies, one leaf of the tree is removed, making all the tree back to the next branchpoint inaccessible < 1202160031 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: boehm < 1202160041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise when a thread backtracks, it will be killed unless no other threads survive at the fork() that created it < 1202160054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it isn't a fork() in INTERCAL, of course, but instead multiple COME FROMs aiming at the same line < 1202160058 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings the Boehm Rhapsody. < 1202160099 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# mamaaaaaa, just segfaulted a process # < 1202160102 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boehmian < 1202160123 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# freed a pointer that was live, it derefed and then it died # < 1202160128 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1202160138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's possible to use valgrind as a garbage collector? < 1202160145 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I know < 1202160165 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would make early LISP ones look positively zippy < 1202160187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't wondering if it was efficient, just if it was possible < 1202160241 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cool trick I have seen is to have a 1-many refcount as a single bit in the pointer: when you duplicate a pointer, set the refcount to "many". Most pointers are never really duplicated, so most stuff gets freed straight away, with less left for the GC < 1202160253 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounts in the pointer are *way* better for the cache < 1202160257 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1202160261 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno < 1202160380 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that C is commented now < 1202160447 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SimonRC you commented it? < 1202160450 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's illegal. < 1202160455 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a magical creation! < 1202160565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you at least use //-style comments? < 1202160573 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did so comprehensively, with stuff like: < 1202160575 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(n-=wn)mv(z->p+wn,z->p,n);R z;} // "overlapping move" to fill rest < 1202160594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* */ seems wrong there, even if it's more portable < 1202160610 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most lines have 2..3 word of comment < 1202160666 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that really need documenting is the operator semantics and the two data structures involved < 1202160678 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is simple < 1202160693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you evil evil person < 1202160826 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: paste it so i can burn you at the steak. mm, steak. < 1202160869 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the pastebin? < 1202160906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca < 1202161084 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb.net/paste < 1202161217 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/891738 < 1202161680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1202161680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define P printf // monadic op < 1202161680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1202161680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #define R return // dyadic op < 1202161684 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pray tell how does that help you < 1202161689 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1202161716 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1202161736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it would help if in your //operators line you did a symbol->op mapping < 1202161737 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1202161738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was wondering about that too, but didn't comment for some reason < 1202161773 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: try linking the new one < 1202161773 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202161776 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/891750 < 1202161814 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: also, see where i linked above < 1202161818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's genuine old-fashioned K&R C < 1202161824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the original version, which HAS indentation < 1202161827 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, onespc ;) < 1202161829 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some newlines (2) < 1202161835 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure. j is old. < 1202161839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it contains a buffer overflow < 1202161849 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many < 1202161852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does -- but there's probably tons of those in regular K < 1202161859 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a reason, too < 1202161860 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the first prototype remember < 1202161873 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason being: that's the k mindset < 1202161878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't care about things like that < 1202161881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C s[99];while(gets(s)) should never be written by anyone < 1202161892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no way to guarantee that the user types in 98 or fewer characters < 1202161901 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is < 1202161902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks for the c lesson! < 1202161908 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make sure the only user is you < 1202161910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function gets itself is very hard to use < 1202161916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that can't segfault < 1202161930 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually gets is impossible to use properly < 1202161930 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: read:impossible < 1202161943 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's a lie < 1202161945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did write code that used it safely once as proof-of-concept < 1202161950 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can trap sigsegv to expand < 1202161951 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202161953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it redirected stdin to a file that it created itself < 1202161957 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ow < 1202161965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap? < 1202161970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and array overflows don't necessarily cause sigsegv, they just do so sometimes < 1202161978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: no, it actually used the filesystem < 1202161982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as to do it in portable C89 < 1202162045 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202162071 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw SimonRC < 1202162085 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find does do something < 1202162088 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't know what < 1202162096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202162101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really doesn't < 1202162111 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an operator that returns stack garbage < 1202162133 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well, it does something in the repl < 1202162133 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is supposed to look up a value in an array < 1202162133 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202162142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know that? < 1202162142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202162153 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1202162161 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't implemented < 1202162171 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats far too conventional for that btw ;) < 1202162203 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway -- switch to the indented version < 1202162213 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBA < 1202162252 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itll take 2 secs < 1202162254 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1202162267 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it then < 1202162283 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1202162284 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1202162291 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I *ma(n){R(I*)malloc(n*4);} < 1202162298 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wrong for today's machines < 1202162299 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202162306 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I *ma(n){R(I*)malloc(n*sizeof I);} // obviously < 1202162308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof exists for a reason < 1202162316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't back then at least not widely < 1202162319 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was prototype ffs for one person's machine < 1202162331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write portably even just for personal code < 1202162334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I have a reason not to < 1202162345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I often end up trying to run it on a different machine... < 1202162352 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202162353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, odd things happen if malloc returns values near the bottom of memory... < 1202162372 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know when that code was written? < 1202162372 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the token-classifier might misclassify them as operators or variables < 1202162376 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the 80s, at latest < 1202162382 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: style < 1202162393 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default-to-int all over the place < 1202162400 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes < 1202162402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1202162408 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and abusing that to return ptrs < 1202162408 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really a B program ina disguise < 1202162408 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202162410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, I use Gnome/GNU/Linux, GNU/Windows, Explorer/Windows, and Common Desktop Environment/SunOS reasonably often < 1202162418 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu/linux < 1202162421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have been known to use DOS on occasion < 1202162422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pretentious! < 1202162434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spells it out in full when both parts are relevant < 1202162456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, using the acronym is the only way that people will realise what I mean by GNU/Windows < 1202162469 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: change your comments to be aligned and start them with //NB. < 1202162475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen anyone write Explorer/Windows before, but they should more often so that people realise that the OS is not the computer or the GUI < 1202162476 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J uses NB. as a comment indicator < 1202162480 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generally has them aligned < 1202162506 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define NB // < 1202162508 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202162512 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont' *think* that weorksd < 1202162516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*works < 1202162519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pp-phases are in the wrong order < 1202162564 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: doesn't. < 1202162566 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp strips comments. < 1202162590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically speaking, all comments have to be replaced by a positive amount of whitespace < 1202162644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a compiler that replaces comments with whitespace corresponding to fibonacci numbers, incrementing each commentused < 1202162644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, has anyone here used m4? < 1202162649 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguely < 1202162671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to changequote([,])-ed m4 as a result of reading the source of Autocong < 1202162676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/g$/f/ < 1202162692 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think the #line directive is mostly for the use of seperate preprocessors < 1202162702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4 is capable of generating them < 1202162709 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no < 1202162709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also useful for things like lex and yacc < 1202162710 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its for < 1202162712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're compiling into C < 1202162714 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. gcc can report proper errors < 1202162717 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after cpp < 1202162724 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2. compiler output < 1202162728 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can do #line"srcfile" 4 < 1202162729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't use #line, but # < 1202162743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, what cpp does < 1202162743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1202163702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202164047 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: q about the interp < 1202164052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to construct vectors? < 1202164259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "construct"? < 1202164484 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: make new ones from inside code < 1202164491 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: paul graham is a fucking idiot < 1202164494 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about iota? < 1202164500 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he deleted my comment on the 'what would this look like in other languages' < 1202164506 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that? < 1202164508 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where? < 1202164522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see probably why - he said 'joke submissions will be deleted'. apparently, because my code was concise and didn't look like a 'regular' language, it was obviously fake! < 1202164526 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody retard < 1202164537 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :respond with evidence to support you < 1202164555 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: someone asked me what language it was. i responded 'the language of paul graham deleting comments for no reason'. he'll probably see. < 1202164557 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to actually get numbers, you can use 0-9 which are 0-dimensional arrays if 1 number < 1202164569 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1202164573 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which lang? < 1202164586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it was a little language i've been making for a while < 1202164592 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah i know with 0-d arrays < 1202164595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about more? < 1202164600 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arclanguage.org/item?id=722 < 1202164607 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewriting it quickly, it was this: < 1202164645 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#rg"said"[lambda < 1202165685 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1202165703 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#rg -> 1 tok -> 1 < 1202165709 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"said" -> 1 tok -> 2 < 1202165716 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err, i can count strings as one token right? good) < 1202165722 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] -> 1 nested -> 3 < 1202165727 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1202165731 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] -> 5 < 1202165734 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x -> 6 < 1202165735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. -> 7 < 1202165737 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 < 1202165740 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"click here" -> 9 < 1202165743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] -> 10 < 1202165747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you said: " -> 11 < 1202165749 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! -> 12 < 1202165751 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x -> 13 < 1202165752 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1202165753 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14 < 1202165758 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woop < 1202165760 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 < 1202165775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arcs is 23 < 1202165812 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an implementation? < 1202165840 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Just like all good languages -- no, and if I did I wouldn't have written the web server yet. < 1202165840 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202165849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, here's a translation of that into english < 1202165851 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#rg"said"[ var < 1202172323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where var is an array < 1202172326 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes -- you must implement arrays! < 1202172336 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do something like "assert cell = value [error message] " or "assert cells = 'several ascii representations' [error message]" < 1202172376 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if pikhq and calamari put their heads together I have no doubt the result would be incredible. < 1202172395 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I venture: PEBBLE2 should be totally self-hosted. < 1202172407 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some kind of crappy, limited tcl interpreter that you can use to compile itself. < 1202172417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my current syntax, 'assert {$cell == value} "ERROR here"' or some such. < 1202172426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Are you fucking insane? < 1202172433 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Why shouldn't I be? < 1202172435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to actually have an implementation, thanks. < 1202172446 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have one. The tcl one. < 1202172451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you could use to compile the pebble2 one. :< < 1202172453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However. . . < 1202172468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make PEBBLE2 powerful enough, I *could* manage to do self-hosting. < 1202172483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! It would evolve around a REAL-WORLD PROBLEM: compiling an esoteric language. < 1202172522 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one hand, some of the data structure implementations necessary would probably be excruciating, but on the other hand it would be pretty nifty < 1202172568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Given sane arrays, one could at least pull it off. ;) < 1202172574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: So give it arrays and structures. < 1202172582 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just have to implement a compilation technique for them ;) < 1202172629 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. doing pointers would really suck, but heaps can be done in-place to create a non-pointer based map structure in an array < 1202172636 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd probably be your best bet < 1202172637 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But think how awesome an s-exp syntax would be: < 1202172646 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defstruct tmpvar < 1202172656 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : field something < 1202172657 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : field something < 1202172658 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : field something) < 1202172660 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202172747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, it would be very good for e.g. the macros. < 1202172760 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since macros are just compile-time procedures, a lot of pebble stuff would be trivial < 1202172769 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your preprocessor would be elegant, instead of just dumb replacement. < 1202172858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: You realise that I don't think functionally, right? < 1202172872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: s-expression syntax != functional. < 1202172916 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But macros like that are really elegant. Basically, whenever you see a call to one, in the compiler, you interpret it with the arguments as in the code (well, unevaluated of course). Whatever that returns is used instead of the macro call. < 1202172952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defmacro thing (...) (if *wrapping* ...return wrapping code... ...return non-wrapping code...)) < 1202172955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1202172964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I'm thinking of ATM: http://pastebin.ca/891941 < 1202172984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for the Tcl syntax; it comes to mind easily. < 1202173029 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, but that'd be far more elegant with lisp-style macros < 1202173036 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that is kind of similar < 1202173042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just exposes some of the internal workings < 1202173082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that syntax would be a royal PITA to self-host. < 1202173112 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What syntax? < 1202173123 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lisp syntax with those macros? < 1202173128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl-style syntax. < 1202173130 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1202173134 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lisp syntax wouldn't. :P < 1202173152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since writing an s-expression parser is trivial, and walking one and doing stuff with it too < 1202173175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would the string substitutions I have work in sexps? < 1202173190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure exactly what you mean. < 1202173191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1202173195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1202173198 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things < 1202173203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Invalid type for $out in __BRAINFUCK__+=. $out is [TYPE $out]; should be var." < 1202173207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ERROR runs at compile-time right? < 1202173213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$out and [TYPE $out] are both substituted. . . < 1202173214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1202173219 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you'd just make error a normal function, and make it take any arguments < 1202173226 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in a macro: < 1202173252 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(error "Invlaid type for " out "in brainfuck-+=. " out " is " (type-of out) "; should be var.") < 1202173257 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the prettiest example, but you get the idea. < 1202173263 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also implement a formatting langugae. < 1202173277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(format "Invalid type for ~ in brainfuck-+=. ..." a) < 1202173282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are still not realising one thing. . . < 1202173288 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe something like $~ if ~ is too common < 1202173300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-hosting PEBBLE. . . < 1202173303 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1202173308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you want formatting languages in it. . . < 1202173314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you fucking mad? < 1202173329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you have enough high-level stuff in, then it should be ok. But I agree. < 1202173336 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use the regular error form. < 1202173338 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not hard. < 1202173347 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, if you must -- make it compiler-only. < 1202173387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- evals to -= $out 1 which evals to __-= $out 1. . . Which is done in-compiler. < 1202173402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's simple. < 1202173406 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said: lisp macros. < 1202173563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Basically, the compiler is a bunch of functions. < 1202173569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'defmacro' adds a new function to the compiler. < 1202173574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever that function is seen as being invoked, < 1202173586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function inside the compiler is called, and then the invokation is replaced with the result of that. < 1202173594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very simple, and doesn't require any preprocessor. < 1202173744 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202173768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IMO the compiler would be simpler and more elegant, and so would be the code. < 1202173781 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a poll on a philosophy blog: < 1202173785 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Will the most common response to this poll be 'No'?" < 1202173794 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: old < 1202173809 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, maybe I should explain HOW you replace the invokation with the result of calling the compiler function (macro) < 1202173817 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defmacro foo () '(+ 2 2)) < 1202173823 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? It just returns the code as a list. < 1202173999 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202174004 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202174019 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must one join *every* channel? :P < 1202174030 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just this one. < 1202174043 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the official one for esolangs. < 1202174043 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Talk tomorrow. < 1202174048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Mmkay. < 1202174222 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bleh, Bunnies!" < 1202174239 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-203-222.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202174454 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i not join this earlier? :| < 1202174487 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarehu: are you aware of the esolangs wiki? < 1202174501 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes generally < 1202174515 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know then :) < 1202174991 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202175154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, calamari. < 1202175159 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1202175209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1202175431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: pikhq is working on a new version of Pebble. I encourage you to join forces with him and create something epic. < 1202175443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly discussing planning ATM. < 1202175455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/891941 < 1202176868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202178938 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202185212 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202185310 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202186089 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202186292 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202186943 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-41-215.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187036 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have a BF program that prints the prime decomposition of a number? < 1202187428 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187428 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187428 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187429 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187430 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187552 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187648 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :faxathisia!n=more@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-178-76.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202189577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202190918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202191021 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202191785 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202192281 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202192622 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202192622 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202192904 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202197171 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1202198399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1202198400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1202200322 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202200323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202200378 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202200518 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202200520 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@adsl-76-204-89-255.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202200601 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. thx." < 1202201300 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202201471 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@iruel.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1202201480 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1202205416 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202209593 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202209603 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202210804 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1202210897 0 :danopia!i=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1202212132 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202214136 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202214152 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202216212 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-27.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202216812 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1202221691 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202227951 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202228836 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1202228842 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1202229214 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202229233 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202229962 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202230935 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202230963 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202231242 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202232330 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1202232361 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh... what does Machine Check Exception mean? That's my new BSoD flavour of the week :( < 1202233466 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that the machine only takes cash. < 1202233491 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send your cash to Microsoft Inc. < 1202233493 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how do I fix it, I use a cheque account < 1202233496 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1202233863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheques, how quaint. you must be american ;) < 1202233876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1202233900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers < 1202233943 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :P < 1202233945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw an article about the SA power shortage in the Economist in the library today, btw < 1202233960 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess South Africa is in Mexico anyhow ;) < 1202233969 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, what did it say? < 1202233978 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's still plenty of cheques in France too! < 1202234023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's a mess caused by politicians not deciding to fix it in time, was my impression < 1202234055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather spending too much time discussing how much to privatize < 1202234090 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then I guess the partial truth is escaping ;) < 1202234129 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's got more to do with cheques under the table than handshakes above it (if you get my meaning :P ) < 1202234148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd guess < 1202234266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it was suggested it might reduce economic growth from 6 to 3 percent < 1202234288 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, lol < 1202234294 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that one < 1202234369 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202234382 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, they shut down all of the mines in SA for about 6 weeks. Our economy is a raw materials/minerals economy. Currently, every time someone flips the switch to cut Sandton (a wealthy business suburb), SA loses in the tens of millions per hour... < 1202234411 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is excluding the fact that we make a vast majority of the GDP of Gold mining, which is currently not really hapenning < 1202234448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the article mentioned the shutdown too < 1202234470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the mines managed to get a promise of reliable power out of it < 1202234482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at 90% normal level) < 1202234486 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they did, a 90% increase < 1202234490 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) yeah, lol < 1202234557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of 0 is still 0... < 1202234594 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very true, that's the irony :P < 1202234663 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that is of course, only true if you are cynical - like asi523 and I :P < 1202234674 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202235235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: according to Wikipedia, a Machine Check Exception is really bad < 1202235248 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I believe :( < 1202235252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to mean that something went badly wrong with the hardware < 1202235258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. checksum failure on RAM or cache < 1202235268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it apparently is often caused by overheating < 1202235276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you have to hope that's what's causing it < 1202235340 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was originally under the impression that this is what occurs when I use my X86_64 cpu heavily (really heavily, been brute forcing my own encryption methods, and breadth searching conway's game of life for methuselahs) in 32bit mode. < 1202235385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always try filling the computer with liquid nitrogen < 1202235395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that method was used to set an overclocking record at one time < 1202235415 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, while that would be fun, it would most certainly burn through both my tower and my pockets :P < 1202235435 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, something stupendous like 6Ghz of a Pentuim 4 < 1202235448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer still managed to overheat eventually even though the outside was frozen. They only just had enough time to take a photo of the screen showing the fast clock speed before the computer turned itself off for heat reasons < 1202235489 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, awesome :D < 1202235795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster_ < 1202235801 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster1 < 1202235841 0 :AnMaster1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1202236105 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202236115 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202236886 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202236939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reference to the topic: < 1202236941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat. < 1202236946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat :- repeat. < 1202236948 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies < 1202236958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: wow, that was unexpected < 1202237093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit before my estimate, that < 1202237153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I didn't even finish writing the line that is actually needed to make that into an infinite loop < 1202237161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if I write: < 1202237171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal :- repeat, fail. < 1202237176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202237179 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202237312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that all langs should have some easy way to implement multithreading and backtracking < 1202237325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can be hard to implement if the language doesn't give specific features that allow it < 1202237338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/cc is normally enough to write an implementation, though < 1202237386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/cc + mutable state gives you all monads < 1202237427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is threading a monad? < 1202237433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as being more of an antimonad < 1202237438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1202237442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because monads cause things to happen in order < 1202237450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and threading causes things to happen in an apparently random order < 1202237451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backtracking certainly is < 1202237457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1202237510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooperative threading can probably be put in a monad < 1202237527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again agreed < 1202237553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I like about INTERCAL's threading model is the way that it's cooperative threading allows guarantees on the relative speed of threads < 1202237561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be used for logic on occasion < 1202237567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the C-INTERCAL Hello, World on the wiki < 1202237578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it's/its/ < 1202237618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, the model is completely impractical for serious langs as far as I can tell < 1202237628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the backtracking model, on the other hand, is quite elegant while still being unusual < 1202240979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1202242286 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202242701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :OLD TOPIC IS GONE < 1202242733 0 :fax!n=afg@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202242737 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1202242755 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know anything about ABSYS? < 1202242816 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202242817 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1202242854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i have a question -- are you the same fax as faxastheisdfsdkf or however you spell it or are there two confusingly-similarly-named people in here < 1202242859 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first logic programming language, appanetly < 1202242889 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, It's me < 1202242937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: hmm, i didn't know you were UK. :p < 1202242952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABSYS well, one publication < 1202242955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you have fun tracking it down < 1202242982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202243027 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a suprisingly large number of british folk in here < 1202243047 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be something in the water.. < 1202243066 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1202243082 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to add mutable conses to haskell but failed :/ < 1202243115 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202243121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1202243148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed as though the window manager went crazy; no window frames were available, just the client areas of the windows, which acted as normal < 1202243170 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: trivial < 1202243193 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type MList a = ST [a] < 1202243195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1202243195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202243206 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your WM crashed < 1202243211 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morale: always keep an xterm open < 1202243212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1202243220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had two open < 1202243229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logout/login solved it < 1202243270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: was it you who added the latest anarchy golf challenges? < 1202243272 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use twm, that never crashes :-) < 1202243277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which ones? < 1202243288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two versions of multiply < 1202243292 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(speaking of which, it seems the japanese userbase of anarchy golf call it anagolf, which is far easier to type) < 1202243294 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, i didn't < 1202243294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a simple program interpreter < 1202243296 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdx or whoever did < 1202243299 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did the simple program one < 1202243305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course not simple at all :-) < 1202243319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have a /genuine/ entry for it < 1202243320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowzer < 1202243320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523(genuine) < 1202243329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: show the code? that's pretty cool :D < 1202243333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't nest parens more than 2 deep in all circumstances < 1202243339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202243353 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my "Multiply" entry is clever < 1202243361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pastes < 1202243364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p eval gets(nil).gsub(",","*") < 1202243369 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply long: < 1202243375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/892988 < 1202243378 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$<.map{|x|p eval x.gsub(",","*")} < 1202243385 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is forbidden .. http://www.absysinfo.com/ < 1202243391 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, it compiles. < 1202243406 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't actually do any parsing stuff though, does it? < 1202243406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more a s/// to change the code into Perl < 1202243409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202243411 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just transforms the non-perl bits into perl < 1202243415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't nest parens more than 1 level deep either < 1202243437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could actually write a shorter version that did, but only if they upgraded Perl to 5.010 < 1202243445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't think has been released yet < 1202243453 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing about yours is that it isn't as conceptually elegant < 1202243456 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mine, < 1202243459 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'if' is a composite < 1202243462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it isn't implemented as one < 1202243464 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's called as one < 1202243469 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since {...} is a lambda < 1202243476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you might be doing that < 1202243484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if is your only combinator, so I optimised for that < 1202243490 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :) < 1202243502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some shortcomings as well; you can't call a variable i or f, for instance, because those letters are part of the word if < 1202243506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1202243511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lexer doesn't distinguish word boundaries in keywords < 1202243518 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cool thing about mine is that it's... pretty hard to parse properly < 1202243522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{x. x} {x. x} < 1202243527 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's either two lambdas, or a call to a lambda < 1202243535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: \n is not a seperator) < 1202243539 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack 3 4 fact 4 would work. < 1202243568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n in my compiler means "print the result of evaling the next expression unless it's a subroutine definition" < 1202243577 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw < 1202243580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look for a : on a line to see whether to print or not < 1202243581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the evil c compiler entry? < 1202243595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1202243598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it up at the moment < 1202243609 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, well i underestimated those japanese < 1202243613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nmt.ne.jp/~ysas/diary/?200705b#200705161 someone made a real compiler for it. < 1202243615 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiles to postscript. < 1202243617 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean -- WTF? < 1202243626 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nmt.ne.jp%2F%7Eysas%2Fdiary%2F%3F200705b%23200705161&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 translated page, but the source is messed up < 1202243643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Evil C Compiler to the ANAGORU finally written in PostScript. ã¨ã‚Šã‚ãˆãšçŸ­ãã™ã‚‹ä»¥å‰ã«å‹•ä½œã™ã‚‹ã‚‚ã®ã‚’ã€å–り急ãŽãƒã‚¤ãƒŠãƒªåŒ–ã‚‚ã›ãšç”Ÿã§ã‚³ãƒŸãƒƒãƒˆã€‚ Shorten work in the meantime before that, without a moment to raw binary also committed. ã™ã‚“ã”ãã§ã‹ã„ã‘ã©ã€ã“ã‚Œã€ã‚¤ãƒ³ãƒã‚­ãªã‚Šã«ã¡ã‚ƒã‚“ã¨ã‚³ãƒ³ãƒ‘イルã™ã‚‹ã€‚ So very big, but this one, and the pseudo-respectable compilation. < 1202243643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ãŸã¨ãˆã°FizzBuzzãªã‚‰ã“ã†ã€‚ For example if I FizzBuzz.' < 1202243647 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1202243649 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen < 1202243655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those japanese chars weren't in my browser. < 1202243659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same person who submitted a genuine entry for the Underload compiler in PostScript? < 1202243673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure. ysas is the url name < 1202243677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ehird`, it's worse over here, I ended up with a paste full of mojibake < 1202243691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :) < 1202243705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Underload entry was by yshl, not ySas < 1202243711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible that they're the same person < 1202243715 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar name < 1202243717 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess so < 1202243734 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's such a language gap on anagolf, especially with the ruby focus and ruby being the biggest in japan :-) < 1202243765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby vs. Perl is probably the biggest language war in golfing < 1202243778 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ruby's quite a newcomer to golfing though < 1202243781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's *great* at it < 1202243796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Ruby and Perl are pretty good < 1202243804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which one wins tends to depend on the details of the problem < 1202243810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that war is interesting because it's so close < 1202243856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: does Haskell have an eval? < 1202243864 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's a static, compiled language < 1202243868 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Hugs doesn't have one < 1202243869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 'simple language' to Haskell 'compiler' might work better than compiling into Perl < 1202243873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the syntax is more similar < 1202243886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could call out to ghc. :-) Unless exec is denied < 1202243892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you denied exec I can't even call out < 1202243909 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aww < 1202243910 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :) < 1202243917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec is usually denied, as it's the default < 1202243920 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, despite haskell's dynamic 'feel', it's very very static < 1202243934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although exec can be useful when testing < 1202243959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while testing that simple language compiler I used recursive calls to perl rather than eval so that error messages came up on stderr < 1202244017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's funny, anagolf's architechture at fisrt appears simple < 1202244021 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you look at the code it's crazy < 1202244026 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the sandboxing tricks and all that < 1202244039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing a message about how the sandboxing must be difficult but you beat me to it < 1202244056 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1202244077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity that anagolf doesn't allow 1-byte palindromic quines < 1202244088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because is a palindromic quine in GolfScript < 1202244092 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pc11.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/tech/1173057314/ yours and mine challenges are mentioned near the end :-P < 1202244106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the rest is completely unintelligable, of course. < 1202244116 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you scroll down to 141 it's there < 1202244149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure the page < 1202244154 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1202244157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the links are all mailto: aimed at invalid addresses < 1202244169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's random wacky 2channel stuff < 1202244173 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stops the thread being bumped. < 1202244173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there seems to be no content other than the challenge names < 1202244182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on that post, it appears < 1202244190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[all this knowledge re: 2ch is probably useless since i know no japanese] < 1202244199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[but i know it's the largest bbs in the world, with over 2million visitors a day] < 1202244280 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes in that thread you can work out posts from the ones following it < 1202244291 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, someone mentiones goruby in 122, and then what follows appears to be an implementation of it < 1202244301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a golfing version of Ruby? < 1202244322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised that that has a built-in uudecode, because it must be useful for compressing code into binary < 1202244335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, uuencode is more commonly useful for that) < 1202244350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, its included in ruby 1.9 < 1202244354 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for No Apparent Reason (TM) < 1202244373 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'make golf' is the best command-line invokation ever, though < 1202244382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cheat BF entry for the uudecode still has me amused < 1202244389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure a genuine entry would be shorter < 1202244398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a BoolFuck entry would be shorter still < 1202244526 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2ch with wikipedia articles like this, who needs knowledge of japanese? < 1202244541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not any closer to reading that anagolf thread though :P < 1202244638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder how easy it is to do bitwise BF arithmetic? < 1202244755 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard < 1202244774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be easiest to split the number into bits first < 1202244792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that you just need a divide/modulo instruction < 1202244794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or routine < 1202244805 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether, if I find a K interpreter, I could convince shinh to add it to anagolf? < 1202244824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/langs.html there seems to be one or two propeitery interps there, so it should be ok < 1202244842 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have J and A+ < 1202244845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not write your own non-proprietary reimplementation? < 1202244852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's too comprehensive, K. < 1202244856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because anagolf considers speed too. < 1202244862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is incredibly fast on tons of stuff < 1202244863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interp si tiny < 1202244867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fits in lvl1 cache of cpu) < 1202244891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why reimplementing it shouldn't be too difficult < 1202244900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new version probably wouldn't be as high-quality < 1202244909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hopefully wouldn't take very long to write < 1202244935 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the library is comprehensive < 1202244946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's proprietary too? < 1202244951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be a problem < 1202244952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, i think < 1202244965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they offered a free K3 interpreter before, it was just one binary < 1202244967 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all platforms < 1202244969 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(win, linux) < 1202244974 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can find it with google, but yeah < 1202244977 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the binary, that's it < 1202244985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what license is it under < 1202244994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's public domain, it might be possible to decompile it < 1202245004 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'all rights reserved' kind of thing < 1202245004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you have the same code for multiple OSs < 1202245011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not possible then < 1202245017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not legal, certainly < 1202245039 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if k was easier to googlle. :| < 1202245165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, searching via Wikipedia I found a page elsewhere called "K for Joy Programmers" < 1202245172 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nsl.com? < 1202245175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202245180 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stinkin' loops, that's the best k site < 1202245185 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/k/bf.k they have a bf interp and a ->c compiler < 1202245190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the compiler: < 1202245191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:{`bf.out.c 0:"char m[9999];char*p=m;int main(){",(,/@[256#"";_ic"<>+-.,[]" < 1202245192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::;("--p;";"++p;";"++*p;";"--*p;";"putchar(*p);";"*p=getchar();";"while(*p){" < 1202245192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"}")]_ic x), "}"; `4:"gcc -o bf.out -O3 -w bf.out.c"; `3: "rm -f bf.out.c";} < 1202245233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're working on an Unlambda implementation as well < 1202245243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they certainly seem esolang-aware over there < 1202245246 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.nsl.com/k/befreak.k <-- Befreak in K, *with a gui*... certainly a new implementation would be hel < 1202245248 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1202245264 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/papers/befreak.htm take a look at how comprehensive the gui is < 1202245318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gui isn't very useful for golfing, generally speaking < 1202245323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1202245329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wouldn't want to impact on MY k experience < 1202245330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202245417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1202245422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cat in unlambda even possible? < 1202245426 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1202245430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a huge switch table for every 255 char < 1202245455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202245459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the | command < 1202245468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, combinator-like action-like object < 1202245492 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1202245562 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1202245607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that K implementation of Unlambda looks excessively long < 1202245622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to get on with writing my Underload/Unlambda/Brainfuck hybrid lang < 1202245651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Unlambda can be trivially compiled into < 1202245657 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The EsCo 9000? < 1202245665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet which can be interpreted simply as well < 1202245692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combining an Unlambda->Underlambda compiler and an Underlambda interp would give an Unlambda interp < 1202245693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: want to help me find a k interp for linux? :P < 1202245695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or windows, i guess < 1202245769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on nsl, but the link seems to be broken < 1202245772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, the link from Wikipedia to it < 1202245784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Wayback working for you? It wasn't for me earlier < 1202245798 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, wayback! good idea < 1202245800 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1202245801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow loading < 1202245830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently slow that my browser timed out when I tried < 1202245851 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1202245852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loaded. < 1202245858 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm telling it to go fish for kx.com < 1202245954 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trying 2005 < 1202245960 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202245967 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1202245968 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/misc/k/ < 1202245971 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's wayback that < 1202246057 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matches < 1202246058 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdfjksdf < 1202246097 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-41-215.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202246158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, do you think that $/=$] is an abusive way to switch Perl into slurp mode? < 1202246176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a golfing trick I use myself; set the newline separator to the Perl version string < 1202246181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unlikely to be anywhere in the input < 1202246428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202246566 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202246573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1202246575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I miss? < 1202246586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's window manager crashed again < 1202246594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1202246595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1202246597 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1202246599 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$/=0 < 1202246601 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that shorter < 1202246611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, that's SCARY ambiguity with a /= b) < 1202246654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not equals is != in Perl < 1202246662 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202246664 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it stringify 0 ? < 1202246665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide-equals < 1202246674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not really, because a lone $ always gobbles up the next character at least < 1202246676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that's ok < 1202246680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no golf challenges have 0 in the info iirc < 1202246682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, 0 is stringified < 1202246684 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1202246686 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1202246687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stringified as its char < 1202246687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1202246702 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.kx.com/download/download.htm <-- ais523: archives, but inaccessable < 1202246730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's probably a special variable that's undef by default, but I can't be bothered to find out which one when $] works almost as well for this purpose < 1202246759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ehird`: I'm the sort of person who's idealistic enough to avoid using a language if it doesn't have an open-source implementation I can mess around with < 1202246769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not exclusively < 1202246774 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you owe it to yourself to try k :) < 1202246784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enough to not download closed-source interps for languages like K < 1202246785 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think kx systems have every right to keep it under wraps < 1202246788 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a secret weapon < 1202246807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's really that good, someone should reimplement it < 1202246817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like the dmd/gdc thing < 1202246824 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's k so good? < 1202246831 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really see why.. < 1202246843 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: craziness < 1202246845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me a lot of the things I like to look for in a language < 1202246848 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gdc is not a reimplementaiton! < 1202246848 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1202246852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shares the open source backend with dmd. < 1202246853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't like it as much as ehird`, I think < 1202246859 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just layers it on top of gcc. < 1202246869 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that and extreme conciseness and *speed* < 1202246871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is the backend, I think < 1202246874 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like J a lot.. I couldn't get into K < 1202246875 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it outperforms c in a lot of cases < 1202246879 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses the dmd backend. < 1202246893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're arguing over which end is the backend and which end is the frontend < 1202246897 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: k is like j, but taken to the logical extreme and then whipped around until it was just that bit faster and shorter < 1202246905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses the 'guts' of dmd. < 1202246912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1202246917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason dmd isn't open is that the frontend has code by other people. < 1202247008 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's Y in k < 1202247009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y:{{x[{x[x]y}[y]]z}[x][{x[{x[x]y}[y]]z}[x]]y} < 1202247016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarg, that's awful < 1202247020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep! < 1202247025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks better in most syntaxes < 1202247031 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it utilizes the fact that by default 'x,y,z' are your first arguments < 1202247032 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default. < 1202247035 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to name them < 1202247047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but other langs do that as well < 1202247049 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since most k functions take 3 or less arguments, that's probably good < 1202247049 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202247053 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf.. lol < 1202247054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica uses #1, #2, #3 for instance < 1202247061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the pattern doesn't end there < 1202247066 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longer than arc :P? < 1202247075 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: naw, shorter :P < 1202247075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, Mathematica is even worse for excessive brackets < 1202247079 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc is like java compared to k! < 1202247092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is Java like compared to K? < 1202247113 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this K sounds like a piece of proprietary junk. < 1202247126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: proprietary, but not junk. < 1202247149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks that with enough effort it would be possible to come up with something even smaller and faster < 1202247161 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fn (m) ([_ _] (fn (y) (m [(y y) _])))) < 1202247161 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202247171 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: sure, but that is in a different style < 1202247175 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do [_ _] and call that < 1202247177 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do that in k too. < 1202247181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/14/22741/791 < 1202247187 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably in forth. < 1202247192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: k is tried and tested, though. < 1202247197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: forth is not short < 1202247204 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: KDB is used by tons of banks and governments and shiz < 1202247205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or you've just fallen for their advertising < 1202247207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just plain K is too < 1202247209 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's that long for.. readability? :D < 1202247222 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: naw, kx don't acknowledge k any more < 1202247223 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202247228 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did research. < 1202247238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1202247243 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202247243 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kx just updated their home page :| < 1202247286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, during this conversation? < 1202247305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since yesterday.. < 1202247366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was wondering for a moment if they were monitoring #esoteric so that they could alter their website to fit the conversations < 1202247398 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202247413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kx-if you're reading me, put up a free k3 trial. thanks < 1202247441 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems, though, that concatentative languages might be the wrong way for conciseness... < 1202247448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel ninjacode2 is needed! :P < 1202247460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think that? < 1202247466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is quite concatenative-like < 1202247469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with infix notation < 1202247476 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know what i meant < 1202247477 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1202247491 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not strictly, though... because of the monadic/dyadic stuff < 1202247499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1202247511 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems like a really good way to pack code into small boxes < 1202247518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the infixness is a way to use two functions on each character < 1202247538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it makes it considerably harder to create virtual temporary variables < 1202247559 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: personally i think three would be cool < 1202247563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infix,prefix,postfix < 1202247567 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically impossible < 1202247571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ambiguous < 1202247575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a!b is either a postfix, then b < 1202247578 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or infix a, b < 1202247581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a, prefix b < 1202247594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can handle only two options, but three?! no way ;) < 1202247605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!a! would be just as bad < 1202247608 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1202247616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry EgoBot < 1202247622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202247635 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1202247648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though infix, in itself, is ambiguious < 1202247715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K enforces right-to-left evaluation for some reason < 1202247722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left-to-right is more natural, I would have thought < 1202247725 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the most useful, ais523 < 1202247729 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reduces parens in more cases < 1202247742 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unintuitive, but they have years of practice with that kind of stuff :P < 1202247865 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202248377 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202248901 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202248992 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202250068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1202251786 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202252066 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202252329 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202252430 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202252872 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202253327 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202253491 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hi < 1202253675 0 :Geekthras!n=Geekthra@c-24-218-46-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202253985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1202254015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Pong. < 1202254023 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any thoughts re: pebble2? < 1202254033 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah pikhq? < 1202254033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one ATM. . . < 1202254042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geekthras: Yeah? < 1202254055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geekthras: From #xkcd, I see. ;) < 1202254063 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1202254118 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202254513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geekthras: So, what brings you here? < 1202254524 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much < 1202254525 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack < 1202254530 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Geekthras|Dinnar < 1202254978 0 :Geekthras|Dinnar!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Geekthras < 1202254995 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hanging out < 1202255198 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally got around to making a bf compiler < 1202255238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finally getting around to revising PEBBLE. < 1202255256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: BTW, I'm thinking of implementing PEBBLE2 in Plof. < 1202255276 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( but .. self-hosting lisp syntax! < 1202255277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1202255309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said what syntax I'd use. < 1202255317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember: Plof has a runtime-modifiable syntax. < 1202255477 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, yeah, but .. macros < 1202255479 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and self-hosting < 1202255480 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1202255720 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20041014021225/http://kx.com/cgi-bin/getSoftware_new.pl?klin.zip=y i hope this works :) < 1202255726 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmanit < 1202255727 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1202255781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Plof can have *everything* replaced at runtime. < 1202255797 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good enough! :( < 1202255802 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a self-hosted, lisp-syntax pebble! :P < 1202255806 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should make it. heh < 1202255821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everything except for the PSL semantics, which are about as hard to replace as the machine code on a traditional CPU. . . < 1202255831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've yet to rule out sexp syntax. < 1202255840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1202255907 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, but self-hosting < 1202255907 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202256017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kx.com/cgi-bin/getSoftware_new.pl?klin.zip=y damnit, none ofthem want to work < 1202256266 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202256755 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which i really ought to get elliotthird.org up < 1202256768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, as soon as i settle on a programming language and get Nodist written... < 1202256769 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never) < 1202257558 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1202257569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does cpressey ever come by here? < 1202257888 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202257888 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202257953 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202257953 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202257954 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1202258465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rarely, if ever. < 1202258622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's his nick when he does, then? < 1202259201 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1202260896 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202261364 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202262155 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey. < 1202262202 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202262999 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/Ir9XSN95.html finally! < 1202263074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say 'finally'? < 1202263085 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was bugging before < 1202263106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, an interpreter. < 1202263113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only slightly harder than a compiler. < 1202263137 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1202263161 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just getting loops to work recursively < 1202263713 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's a nifty way to do [] < 1202263767 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah much better than keeping track of depth < 1202264307 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :yeknoMesaerG < 1202264579 0 :yeknoMesaerG!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1202264643 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202264686 0 :danopia`school!n=irc@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1202264978 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1202265507 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202266025 0 :danopia`school!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :danopia < 1202267554 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/pics/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=0 // how to choose a democratic candidate < 1202267898 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1202267925 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202267937 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. Somebody's telomeres are eroding! < 1202267943 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, calamari < 1202267946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1202268042 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what're you up to this evening? < 1202269031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, calamari. I plan to pick your brains for PEBBLE 2 when I code it a bit further. < 1202269046 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1202269052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite yet, though. < 1202269060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still got some stuff to do for my calc class. . . < 1202277823 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202278200 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey wait calamari was the BASIC2BF guy right? < 1202278569 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFBASIC, yes < 1202278583 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told him he was my hero when I realized that < 1202278620 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's awesome < 1202278674 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know < 1202278727 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what is great about the internet: Not only can you meet your heroes, you can find out that the dude you've been chatting with for a couple days IS one of your heroes < 1202279178 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1202279179 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1202279225 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck < 1202279229 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i LOVE this album < 1202279246 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infected Mushroom - Vicious Delicious < 1202279501 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-87.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202279561 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :THIS IS THE TOPIC < 1202279706 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202279717 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202279874 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202280821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1202280867 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not well-formed xml on many clients. < 1202280883 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, ones that say (bsmntbombdood) or bsmntbombdood: < 1202280924 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1202281069 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bsmntbombdood) is not well-formed xml. < 1202281081 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is bsmntbombdood: < 1202281081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: get a real client < 1202281087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1202281096 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1202281104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202281126 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how do you know what client i have? < 1202281143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a client that shows (nick) for privmsgs < 1202281152 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually i don't. < 1202281153 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some do. < 1202281164 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think xchat shows nick | message < 1202281166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1202281201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep yep, i just seem to have missed a few of your lines < 1202281487 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just closing some xml tags that weren't closed. < 1202281487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a bot for this < 1202281487 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1202281487 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts netbeans (no this doesn't need a closing tag) < 1202281487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already did it, didn't you? < 1202281520 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, no < 1202281777 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202282641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "-->" the end of an html comment? < 1202282650 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202282659 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and olsner has joined this channel < 1202282687 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1202282691 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1202282714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, i think i need to get going now, you keep up the good work! -> < 1202282754 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was all the fuzz about? < 1202282758 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's --> to you! < 1202282779 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, es0n00b1 has joined this channel < 1203080007 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that web address again?? < 1203080010 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1203080062 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found lazy bird - cool < 1203080198 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUCH < 1203080234 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really cant make head or tail of Lazy Bird. < 1203080277 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for instance, the Fibonacci is thusly : < 1203080344 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^x^y [A printing function that takes y as an argument] xx [a function to change the sort-of memory that takes x as an argument] < 1203080387 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I call that function u (and that's pretty much what it is), and I apply it to itself (`uu), I get : < 1203080408 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^y [A printing function that takes y as an argument] uu [a function to change the sort-of memory that takes y as an argument] < 1203080432 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ^x disappear because it suffered function application, so all x's are replaced by the argument. < 1203080455 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I apply it to the list [0, 1], I get : < 1203080471 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203080490 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Prints the first element of [0,1]] uu [a function to change [0,1]] < 1203080518 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It then prints 0, and the printing function disappear (because it converts to the identity function) < 1203080544 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm left with uu [a function to change [0,1]], which then converts to uu [1,1] < 1203080563 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm back at the beggining, but with a new argument. < 1203080568 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so it continues. < 1203080590 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - kind of makes sense < 1203080613 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how is it adding the arguments together. < 1203080627 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use the adding function! < 1203080649 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must have missed the addition within the code < 1203080658 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Church numerals. It's ^f^x f(f(f(f(...f(x)...)))) < 1203080671 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of f's indicates the number. < 1203080696 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand you have to use the adding function, but where is it in the code? < 1203080708 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203080728 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wholey moley < 1203080740 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's here : `sb`y0``v0i < 1203080760 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well, to make it more compact, and to avoid using variables, I used the combinators. < 1203080782 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sb is equivalent to ^a^f^x.f(afx). It means +1 < 1203080785 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about obsficated code < 1203080818 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you enter a Church numeral into that function, for instance two ^g^y.g(gy), you get : < 1203080823 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - this looks like a whole new area of maths < 1203080835 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to me, anyhow) < 1203080880 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(listening and learning) < 1203080909 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^a^f^x.f(afx))^g^y.g(gy) converts to ^f^x.f(^g^y.g(gy)fx) (a replaced by ^g^y.g(gy)), converts to ^f^x.f(^y.f(fy)x) (g replaced by f), converts to ^f^x.f(f(fx)) (y replaced by x) < 1203080949 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in the end, your function is the argument of a new f. < 1203080988 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - kind of follow. your using recursion. dont pretend to understand the rest < 1203081011 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbers aren't just numbers. < 1203081022 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're used for function iteration. < 1203081051 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for instance, if to the number 3, I apply two arguments, the successor argument (s, meaning +1) and another number, you get : < 1203081058 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah - i keep finding "Church numerals" in a number of places < 1203081110 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^f^x.f(f(f(x)))) s 5 converts to (^x.s(s(s(x)))) 5 converts to s(s(s(5))) < 1203081135 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you take the successor of 5, and the successor of the successor, and the successor of it < 1203081148 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8? < 1203081160 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So says math teachers! < 1203081168 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - getting there < 1203081185 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ^f^x.f(f(f(f(f(f(f(f(x))))))) in lambdas. < 1203081209 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you dont need a symbol for the number 5, as 5 can be determined as a string of successions from 0?? < 1203081231 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I just write it 5 because it's shorter. < 1203081371 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. kind of getting the idea behind it. still not fully understanding all the symbols involved < 1203081387 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's only two symbols. < 1203081410 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the lambda (I use ^ for it, sometimes people use \), and there's variables. < 1203081471 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a variable that's next to a lambda, it's bound. The most important thing about this is that, if there's something applied to the expression, the left-most lambda symbol is replaced by that expression. < 1203081501 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ie : (^x.xy)a converts to ay < 1203081544 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the delta, but I think I never saw it outside of Turing's paper. < 1203081578 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^x.x.x.y.y)a == aayy?? < 1203081610 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the syntax is, the dot only serves the purpose of separating lambda variables from the expression itself. < 1203081623 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, you can just use one lambda. < 1203081635 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. (^x.xxyy)a == aayy < 1203081650 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, ^x(^y(^z(xyz))) can be written as ^xyz.xyz < 1203081692 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thas getting confusing < 1203081716 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a syntax matter. < 1203081718 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does (^xyz.xyz)a make any sense < 1203081779 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203081786 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, the original Chruch notation was {^x{^y{^z[(xy)z]}}} (a) < 1203081806 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203081818 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^xyz.xyz)a -> Leftmost bound variable is x -> ^yz.ayz < 1203081819 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x would be replaced by a < 1203081830 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep - got it < 1203081851 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication is the built out of additions somehow < 1203081868 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using function of function?? < 1203081870 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other notation convention is that abc = (ab)c < 1203081879 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can build it out of addition < 1203081894 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But multiplication is actually easier than addition in lambdas. < 1203081915 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - exponentiation?? < 1203081922 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better. < 1203081937 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication is ^m^n^f.n(mf) < 1203081949 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exponentiation is ^m^n.nm < 1203082012 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - can it perform integration or differentiation. I have a nasty little differential equation that has been bothering me since my old PhD days < 1203082032 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it can, since it's TC. < 1203082038 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no simple way to do it < 1203082046 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang < 1203082123 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you any good at differential equations. My problem SHOULD have a solution, but I have no idea how to attack it easily < 1203082139 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do physics, not math. < 1203082152 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics is maths, no? < 1203082154 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can try < 1203082160 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physics is lazy maths. < 1203082165 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203082182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes "Sukoshi`" in this morning's logs < 1203082197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just after we talked about her... < 1203082204 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRWBW is always giving me the look because I use differential elements as variables < 1203082225 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DIFFERENTIALS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY" < 1203082227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRWBW? < 1203082232 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On #math < 1203082237 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dx/dt=Aexp(-B/t)*(x^m)*(1-x)^n < 1203082286 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying to remember which version of the equation this is, so it will work properly) < 1203082299 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 < 1203082312 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B>0 < 1203082313 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the x^m and all outside of the exponential? < 1203082342 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ^n only applies to (1-x) < 1203082384 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... A * (x^m) * [(1-x)^n] * e^(-B/t)? < 1203082391 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial conditions start at x=0,t=0 < 1203082395 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you are right < 1203082449 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i know x=0,t=0 LOOKS wrong, but it works if you rearrange the equation to two integrals, with x on one side and t on the other, and use x=0 and t=0 as limiting conditions < 1203082488 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd personnaly just say that it's dx = A * (x^m) * [(1-x)^n] * e^(-B/t) dt, and then integrates to get x(t) = A * (x^m) * [(1-x)^n] * e^(-B/t) * (-1/B) < 1203082521 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, mathematicians would get their Morbo masks and say "DIFFERENTIALS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY" < 1203082532 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so INT(x=0->x,(x^-m)*x^n.dx)=INT(t=0->t,Aexp(-B/t).dt) < 1203082570 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops: INT(x=0->x,(x^(-m))*x^(-n).dx)=INT(t=0->t,Aexp(-B/t).dt) < 1203082608 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't use boundaries for the integration. < 1203082616 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrals on both sides do not have elimentary solutions < 1203082625 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a constant that should remains, but you can get rid of it via initial conditions. < 1203082653 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell. 14H37 < 1203082658 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. starting conditions are important though < 1203082669 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have pants on and I should get going in 5 minutes. < 1203082689 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203082696 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i want to solve for t when x=1 < 1203082702 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can check #math, they'll probably help you. < 1203082707 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, at least a good approximate < 1203082716 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may go there later. time for bed. < 1203082748 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a good day. it's gonna be a hard nights sleep for me. the brain might not stop for a while now. < 1203082758 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao for now < 1203082761 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203082761 0 :es0n00b1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203082763 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B ai < 1203083703 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203084035 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203084358 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203085398 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203087665 0 :tejeez!n=tejeez@dsl-lhtgw2-fea7dc00-42.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1203090844 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203090867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell code looks really good on one line < 1203090904 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wrong < 1203090908 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing machine was post-LC, i believe < 1203090921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1203090954 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203090957 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1936 < 1203091263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Et cetera, et cetera" < 1203091504 0 :tejeez_!n=tejeez@dsl-lhtgw2-fea7dc00-42.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1203091749 0 :tejeez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1203092276 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1203092489 0 :tejeez_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tejeez < 1203093104 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203093174 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203093202 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203094239 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They wdere pretty much the same year < 1203094552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5+4=2 < 1203094612 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z/Z7? < 1203094642 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z/Z7 = Z+9 < 1203094692 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes! < 1203094706 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this mooncode? < 1203094733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1203094733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs < 1203094771 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That narrow it down to a few hundred languages < 1203094837 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203094840 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203094903 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203095948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203096247 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhping < 1203096976 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203097751 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203098012 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203098449 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203099313 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203099316 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203101015 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203101085 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203101143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"""" < 1203103566 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203103613 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203103771 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@apn-77-113-68-102.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1203103774 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1203103794 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a BF interpreter that shows the movement of the head? < 1203103848 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF developers? < 1203103872 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF developers? What is it? < 1203103886 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the one on the Love Machine 9000, if you chose to display the memory tape. < 1203103893 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck Developers. Google it! < 1203103897 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203104547 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203104743 0 :as13k13rka!n=asiekier@apn-77-113-37-195.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1203104815 0 :as13k13rka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a BF interpreter for mobile phones? Java < 1203104817 0 :as13k13rka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J2M# < 1203104820 0 :as13k13rka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J2ME* < 1203104842 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1203105557 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203105571 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@apn-77-114-187-102.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1203106275 0 :as13k13rka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203106416 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.walenz.org/Dijkstra/ < 1203107204 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203107220 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!" < 1203107653 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it wouldn't be all that complicated to write one. < 1203107787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a horse could write that < 1203107812 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooves can't type. < 1203107822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither can hands < 1203107828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the owner that writes. < 1203107851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well types < 1203108728 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203109259 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203109584 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter 10: An Essay on the Notion: "The Scope of Variables" < 1203109586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quotes" < 1203109603 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]" < 1203109683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chapter 11: "The Scope of Essays": A variable notion < 1203109700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Variable Notion < 1203111220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whazz the password to read your essay on AMS < 1203111575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203111811 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203111872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb oklopol < 1203111886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem! < 1203111922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to allocate some memory, so the natural result was a reboot < 1203111937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu always knows what's best for me < 1203112593 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1203113539 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-80-25.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203113828 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i assume you have to pay/be a member of AMS to read it < 1203113884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that too < 1203114725 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203116176 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203116953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an interesting idea for domain4, actually < 1203117030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first function should control what format most functions use < 1203117105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone care? < 1203117189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also thought of a new type < 1203117404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What idea? < 1203117449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: LC and TM were produced independently, and published in consecutive months. < 1203117520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STRINGNL < 1203117533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will be a string containing no newlines < 1203117717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 0x00 0x04 0x00 controls whether functions in domain 0x04 accept FNUM(1), LNUM, or VARG(LNUM) < 1203118071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/65/trunk look good? < 1203118218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq? < 1203118228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1203118316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any comments on that changeset? < 1203118334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not ATM. < 1203118948 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203119077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiope < 1203119091 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gseo. < 1203119111 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a greeting followed by something else, I guess. < 1203119136 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, I should start greeting people with "gse". < 1203119138 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1203119142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings Supreme Evil Overlords < 1203119153 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's it! < 1203119259 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just Evil Overlords, but Evil Overlords Ruining Just Another Nation. Or something like that, anyway. < 1203119285 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I for one welcome I supreme evil overlords. < 1203119320 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, International Of-Pancakes Experts! < 1203119513 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203119520 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1203119587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello esotericnewbie < 1203119617 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203119633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will any backwards-in-time travellers in the channel please write "Hello, world!" < 1203119663 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, i just loves "Hello, world!" programs) < 1203119736 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm currently wrestling with the idea of Church numerals. I blame slerah_ < 1203119753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b, look at my latest commit? < 1203119842 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo> what you mean by "commit?" < 1203119849 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dlrow ,olleH < 1203119852 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203119857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look at http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/65/trunk < 1203119898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: hah, imposter! < 1203119910 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howdy ho slereah_. Hows your day? < 1203119917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't write it _before_ my request like es0n00b did. < 1203119935 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got a cold or something. < 1203119950 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But I saw it before! < 1203119955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll work on the basics to make an Internet enabled BF program now < 1203119990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not time travel, just relativity. < 1203120011 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not relativity. It's SCIENCE! < 1203120031 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/LUR.jpg < 1203120033 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE! < 1203120117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ECNEICS < 1203120120 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120131 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush robot. < 1203120314 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry - got a phone call. brb) < 1203120362 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon ecneics bf +[] < 1203120366 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ECNEICS < 1203120368 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120378 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. < 1203120387 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon ECNEICS bf +[] < 1203120390 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ECNEICS < 1203120399 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1203120443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pf < 1203120446 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1203120448 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 Sgeo: ps < 1203120456 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!undaemon ecneics < 1203120458 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 1 killed. < 1203120462 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!undaemon ECNEICS < 1203120464 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 2 killed. < 1203120494 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+] < 1203120500 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon message cat Hello, world! < 1203120503 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!message < 1203120504 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1203120507 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1203120525 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it'll never work again, of course. < 1203120543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, eh? < 1203120545 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!message < 1203120553 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't print it that time. < 1203120560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to write a BF program that can go online < 1203120576 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(back again) < 1203120581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb es0n00b < 1203120587 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1203120606 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Egobot do. BF interpreter?? < 1203120620 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does many things! < 1203120625 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203120634 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+] < 1203120643 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203120654 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon message cat Hello, world! < 1203120657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203120660 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.xi < 1203120660 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!message < 1203120663 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1203120682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if EgoBot will ever be able to do PSOX stuff < 1203120683 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.b`.u`.t`.ti < 1203120685 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttub < 1203120689 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1203120695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: EgoBot got disconnected in the middle < 1203120711 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``.b`.u`.t`.tdi < 1203120713 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttub < 1203120725 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't go well with eager evaluation. < 1203120731 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.o`.l`.l.`e.`hi < 1203120735 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llo < 1203120749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ````.b.u.t.ti < 1203120751 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt < 1203120752 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1203120755 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.b`.u`.t`.t`di < 1203120757 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttub < 1203120762 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this. < 1203120771 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203120781 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `````.h.e.l.l.oi < 1203120783 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1203120786 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaay!! < 1203120800 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. < 1203120800 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've go no idea how that works, but thats kind of cool < 1203120828 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It evaluates the innermost first expression. < 1203120833 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.d`.t`.c`.u`.b`````.o.f.s.a.ei < 1203120835 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofsaebuctd < 1203120836 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does unlamba have anything to do with mu-recursion < 1203120856 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's an isomorphism between the two. < 1203120856 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's mu-recursion? < 1203120860 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the discussion last night this slereah_ has really got me thinking < 1203120860 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond that, not much < 1203120869 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose mu-recurvise functions. < 1203120886 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.d`.e`.t`.a`.c`````.o.b.f.u.si < 1203120889 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obfuscated < 1203120894 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, can you do math using unlambda < 1203120899 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though now it's not as obfuscated. < 1203120909 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed. < 1203120910 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda's Turing-complete, all right. < 1203120926 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203120990 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleraeh_> that language we talked about last night, what was it called (where (^f.f)a=a)? < 1203121010 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda calculus? < 1203121013 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda calculus < 1203121020 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KHAAAAAAAAAAN!" < 1203121027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: there is an easy encoding of lambda calculus into unlambda (apart from minor details of execution order) < 1203121031 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, Star Trek 2 needed that lines. < 1203121034 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh - thats right. im getting lamda, mu church numerals, all these ideas confused right now < 1203121038 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's otherwise not that awesome < 1203121041 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is KHAAAAAAAAAAN! the new jinx? < 1203121041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION works on the first ever Internet enabled Brainfuck program < 1203121075 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus can only work on numbers right. or can it work on strings < 1203121079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203121089 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie: does lambda calculus have a "Hello, world!"? < 1203121095 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define strings as number. < 1203121100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: lambda calculus per se has nothing to do with either numbers or strings < 1203121113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just can encode anything in it < 1203121114 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203121119 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lambda calculus itself can't print anything. < 1203121122 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203121127 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can implement side effects and such < 1203121142 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Side effects, ugh. :-) < 1203121145 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i thought. pass a string as a long hexdec number, process, then return a hexdec number, convert back to a string < 1203121158 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's roughly what Lazy K does. < 1203121163 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1203121164 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for instance. < 1203121166 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203121177 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cool with side effects though. < 1203121189 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there actually a computable bijection between lambda calculus expressions and SKI calculus expressions mapping each expression to an equivalent one? < 1203121193 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K can only do input -> output IIRC < 1203121210 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Well, use abstraction reduction. < 1203121212 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was trying to think how you could input a string, and output the string in reverse (ie "hello"->"olleh") < 1203121229 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*elimination < 1203121258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: well you have mappings in each direction, which may not be bijective < 1203121260 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what is *elimination < 1203121274 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed. < 1203121291 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstraction elimination. < 1203121303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you make them injective i think you can apply scröder-bernstein to fix it up < 1203121305 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You eliminate variables. < 1203121306 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Abstraction elimination does what?? < 1203121310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*schröder < 1203121320 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It converts lambda expressions in SKI combinators. < 1203121332 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203121347 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cool < 1203121399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might need to be clever to make it computable. hm. < 1203121466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or to prove that it already is.) < 1203121640 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: the more you address people by surrounding their nick in less-than/greater-than marks, the more people will think that you're quoting what they had said previously < 1203121673 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You usually only need to type four keys for name quoting! < 1203121703 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es0n00b: you may notice that I address you by appending a colon to your nickname, but what actually happens is i type es and press Tab < 1203121746 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry - using web based client that doesnt have ways to do that < 1203121809 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - wife wants me to start doing house work. still have a lot of questions (as usual), but I'll get back later (probably another 12 hours) < 1203121813 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao for now < 1203121846 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"JWIRC applet" < 1203122507 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203123677 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203126036 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :slereah_ < 1203126037 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1203127631 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Alone?" < 1203129823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, why is my program not working? < 1203129965 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it doing? < 1203129992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what should it be doing? < 1203130007 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what language is it written in? < 1203130019 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, Brainfuck < 1203130055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's doing brainfuck? Like a brainfuck interpreter? < 1203130058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm trying to pull from input and send to output except for the null I'll receive < 1203130065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[,[.>]<]> < 1203130103 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme guess- it only prints the first character? < 1203130153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's sending it correctly, but the program doesn't continue < 1203130155 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... hm. no- that looks like it'd be fine < 1203130157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1203130320 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm not sending a 0x0A correctly < 1203130365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any guarantee that the next cell is not 0? < 1203130641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1203130831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the next cell? < 1203130922 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203130927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi olsner < 1203130947 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hello there < 1203130967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1203130976 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203131051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"New kernel. Wheee." < 1203131428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, almost there < 1203131689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay the first ever Internet-aware BF program! < 1203131842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+++++++.>+.<+++.>-..<.,,,[-].+.-.++++++++++.>.<--.>.,+[,.]++.>[-]+++++++++++++++++.<++.>-------.>[-]+[[-].+..+++++++++.,,,.]++.-.-.++++++++++. < 1203131864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^that program is Internet-aware under PSOX < 1203131944 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203131956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pikhq < 1203131957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+++++++.>+.<+++.>-..<.,,,[-].+.-.++++++++++.>.<--.>.,+[,.]++.>[-]+++++++++++++++++.<++.>-------.>[-]+[[-].+..+++++++++.,,,.]++.-.-.++++++++++. < 1203132278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1203132294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you want to try an Internet-aware BF application, get the latest PSOX from SVN and run: < 1203132303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python PSOX.py bf online.b < 1203132322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then after the version information is printed, write something like: < 1203132326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://example.com < 1203132329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press Enter < 1203132346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1203132379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/impl/online.b < 1203132409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, going to try it? < 1203132415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not ATM. < 1203132420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow, absolutely. < 1203132441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonight, I'm just doing a hell of a lot of nothing. < 1203132578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1203132610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, going to try it? < 1203134219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, a chat server can be made with a chat client written in BF < 1203134223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to do it? < 1203134224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203134542 0 :Sukoshi`!n=Blah@user-3cf84np.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203134553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-O < 1203134567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hisashiburi, ne. < 1203134597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203134635 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1203134651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question remains: where have you been the past several months? < 1203134683 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a life to deal with. And when I part this channel, I'll have a life to go back to :P < 1203134693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1203134700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life, shmife. < 1203134723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs a life when there's PSOX and PEBBLE 2 to discuss? < 1203134724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1203134731 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203134771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay pikhq indicated e cared about PSOX! < 1203134783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has PSOX on hilight < 1203134795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, of course I care. I just don't have the time to do major development ATM. < 1203134815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP Japanese takes a good chunk out of your schedule when you actually want to do well in the class. < 1203134831 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The test looked really easy last time I checked. < 1203134837 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll take it for the heck of it this year. < 1203134844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: Keep in mind that I've barely studied for the past 3 years. < 1203134848 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203134856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had a horrible, horrible teacher for 2 of them. < 1203134858 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've graduated to reading short novels routinely. < 1203134869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a weeks worth of studying would cover those 2 years. < 1203134871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1203134875 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've reached that self-sustaining level where I can read for fun to keep up my skills. < 1203134888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite jealous. < 1203134896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATM, I'm just now learning the 3rd-grade kanji. . . < 1203134907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a linguistic person < 1203134919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's easy for you, but, frankly, I'm way behind where I should be. < 1203134929 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is your grammar? < 1203134945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That*, I'm quite a bit better at. < 1203134958 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, give me a definition of "better" :) < 1203134972 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming you can deal with just about any conjugation found in manga? < 1203134986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so, yes. < 1203135010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd really like to pick up keigo a bit, though. . . That looks interesting, moderately difficult, yet worthwhile) < 1203135014 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I was going to give you a link to a grammar book, but you're past it then. < 1203135033 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keigo is a lot lot lot lot lot (repeat as necessary) easier than most people make it out to be. < 1203135047 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially because your average Japanese writing uses a whole 20 Keigo verbs. < 1203135058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Keigo? < 1203135060 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which are all as regular as their non-Keigo forms. < 1203135067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keigo < 1203135076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Formal Japanese. < 1203135113 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203135123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: Easy summary, at least. ;) < 1203135130 0 :Keigo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who's quite good at Japanese < 1203135135 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Keigo nouns are not very difficult. Military terms are where I'm starting to stick. < 1203135162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanji are what's really screwing me up. < 1203135169 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started picking up Russian now because Japanese doesen't need the same time from me anymore that I gave it. < 1203135184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My vocabulary is decent, although it'd be better if I did know a lot more kanji. . . < 1203135184 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm pretty sure I'll stop with the language acquisition after Russian. < 1203135192 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you learning Kanji independently? < 1203135197 0 :bd_!n=foo@satoko.is.fushizen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203135202 0 :Keigo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi bd) < 1203135205 0 :Keigo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1203135207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI bd_ < 1203135208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; for class. < 1203135241 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nihongo to kiite(ry < 1203135261 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203135291 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo invited me in saying something about a discussion about japanese or something >.> < 1203135295 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant, independently from vocabulary. < 1203135309 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :日本語を分ã‹ã‚Šã¾ã™ã‹ã€‚ < 1203135337 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ã„ã„ãˆã€ã¾ã£ãŸã分ã‹ã‚Šã¾ã›ã‚“よ。 < 1203135367 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :本当ã§ã™ã‹(笑 < 1203135370 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :噂話ã¨ã‹ã‚’ã—ã¦ã‚‚ç§ã¯å…¨ç„¶åˆ†ã‹ã‚‰ãªã„ã®ã§ã”安心を。 < 1203135394 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :本当ã®å®‰å¿ƒã§ã™ã­ã€‚ < 1203135407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1203135422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203135424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203135425 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :自分より日本語ã§è…•ãŒã‚る者ãŒã„ã‚Œã°æ³£ãã¾ã™ã‹ã‚‰ã€‚ < 1203135435 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(笑 < 1203135437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, my Unicode is not working ATM. < 1203135452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I recently did a Gentoo reinstall, and have not gotten IME and such working again) < 1203135453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it, but speak not a shred of Japanese < 1203135524 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: ãƒãƒ†ã‚£ãƒ–ã˜ã‚ƒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰è‡ªåˆ†ã‚ˆã‚Šæ—¥æœ¬èªžã«è…•ã®ã‚る者ãŒã„ã¦ã‚‚普通ã ã¨æ€ã†ã‘ã©ã€‚ãã‚Œã«å…¨ç„¶åˆ†ã‹ã‚‰ãªã„ã—。 < 1203135556 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :普通ã˜ã‚ƒãªã„ï¼ï¼ˆæ±— < 1203135575 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ãã‚Œã«ã—ã¦ã‚‚ã€ã“ã‚ŒãŒã¤ã¾ã‚‰ãªã„話ã§ã™ã­ã€‚ < 1203135597 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :自己紹介ã—ã¾ã™ã€‚ç§ã¯ã€ŒSukoshiã€ã¨ã‚‚ã†ã—ã¾ã™ã€‚ < 1203135643 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ï¼’å¹´å‰ã«è‡ªç¿’を始ã¾ã‚Šã¾ã—ã¦ã€ã“ã‚“ã‚話程度を習得ã—ã¾ã—ãŸã€‚ < 1203135676 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :よã‚ã—ãã€ãŠé¡˜ã„ã—ã¾ã™ã€‚ < 1203135731 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ç§ã¯ã€Œbd_ã€ã¨ç”³ã—ã¾ã™ã€‚勉強ã—始ã‚ãŸã®ã¯ãƒ»ãƒ»ãƒ»ã¾ã€æœ€åˆã¯ã‚ã‚“ã¾ã‚ŠçœŸé¢ç›®ã˜ã‚ƒãªã‹ã£ãŸã®ã§ã‚ˆã覚ãˆã¦ã„ã¾ã›ã‚“ãŒã€ãŸã¶ã‚“4年å‰ã ã£ãŸã¨æ€ã„ã¾ã™ã€‚よã‚ã—ããŠé¡˜ã„ã—ã¾ã™ < 1203135768 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangã®ã“ã¨ã§èˆˆå‘³ãŒã‚ã‚‹ã§ã™ã®ã€‚ < 1203135811 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :んん・・・ãªã„よりã‚ã‚‹ã¨ã„ã†ç¨‹åº¦ã§ã™ã­ï¼ˆç¬‘ < 1203135812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION woul really love to be up to reading short novels. . . < 1203135828 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ã¾ã‚ã¾ã‚。(笑 < 1203135829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that, I plan on actually (gasp) studying Japanese after high school. < 1203135891 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I transitioned from the manga/doujin level to the short novel level by immersing myself into a novel with notes. < 1203135899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are bd_ and Sukoshi` discussing? < 1203135911 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copied the notes (which were vocabulary and grammatical notes), made some of my own, and basically got up to speed that way. < 1203135935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No idea; my terminal can't, ATM, display Japanese. < 1203135949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: The problem being that I'm not at the manga/doujin level. < 1203135961 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got a copy of ookami to kousinryou in today :) I'm not quite sure if I'm up to reading it yet (kanji orz) but it's about time I started weaning myself off furigana... < 1203135973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanji is a bitch. < 1203135980 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :日本語勉強方法ã®è©±é¡ŒãŒã‚ã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚ < 1203135999 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :確ã‹ã«ã‚ã‚Šã¾ã™ã­ï¼ˆç¬‘ < 1203135999 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. I stopped relying on Furigana a while ago. < 1203136001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can either of Sukoshi` or bd_ explain what you two are talking about, in ENGLISH please? < 1203136010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's furigana < 1203136013 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: well, I know how to do lookups... I just get lazy :) < 1203136026 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I don't even do the lookups :P < 1203136031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookups? < 1203136034 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Too time consuming for the most part, and interrupt casual readings.) < 1203136053 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :二年間ã§ã©ã‚“ã ã‘㇠< 1203136078 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I know what you mean - sort of skip over and try to puzzle out what they meant? < 1203136083 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time it is one word or two, and I can pick up the *general* meaning in context. 餌 was one word which I inferred slightly off from the actual meaning when I looked it up later. < 1203136087 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203136104 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1203136111 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the material though < 1203136118 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ã©ã‚“ã‚ã‹ãªã€‚日本語ãŒæœ€æ„›ãªèªžã‹ã‚‰å¿…æ­»ã«å‹‰å¼·ã—ã¾ã—ãŸãªã€‚ < 1203136120 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ookami to kousinryou has a lot of economics stuff later on I think < 1203136140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I going to get a response? < 1203136142 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read some stuff heavy on machinery/military, which is tough. But I haven't done much with economics and politics yet. < 1203136156 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally I tackle stuff like that electronically. < 1203136170 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well uh, it's sort of a random/self-introduction conversation thing < 1203136177 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Kanji lookups, because often-times Kanji have odd readings and act as certain words. < 1203136197 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the way to look them up is cumbersome, so. < 1203136217 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use pen input on a nintendo DS dictionary < 1203136222 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that fails, multiradical in wwwjdic < 1203136233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`, people who speak fluent Japanese don't need to do these lookups? < 1203136247 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably sometimes, there are a *lot* of kanji :) < 1203136255 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 2000 is the level for /basic/ literacy < 1203136272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers a #japanese room < 1203136276 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203136279 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are plenty more... < 1203136294 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have fun things like name readings (nanori) < 1203136307 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name readings are horrible. < 1203136312 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to catch up on those. < 1203136326 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where any given set of name kanji has multiple readings, and any given spoken name has multiple possible kanji associated with it, and if you're not told what is what :| < 1203136335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name readings are *nonexistent*. < 1203136392 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on. Can't you read 中本 < 1203136398 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 中山 < 1203136406 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 田中 :P < 1203136411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that's because my terminal can't display Unicode ATM. < 1203136419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read question marks. :p < 1203136439 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nakamoto. < 1203136442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1203136443 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nakayama. < 1203136444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203136445 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanaka. < 1203136446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?? < 1203136447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that < 1203136448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203136450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read those. < 1203136461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And write them. < 1203136467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is lost < 1203136470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those would be the *easy* ones. ;) < 1203136538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Konichiwa" is the extent of my knowledge of Japanese-anything, and I'm scared that even that might be wrong/idiotic < 1203136549 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kon'nichiwa < 1203136554 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konnichiha. < 1203136555 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1203136565 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, however you romanize it. < 1203136590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer not to. < 1203136628 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't for the first 6 months either. < 1203136654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: For demonstration of how badly my first Japanese teacher sucked: he did not teach kana until 2nd year. < 1203136676 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Shudder* < 1203136710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1203136717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I self-taught kana first year. < 1203136741 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware that my school's Japanese program is one of the best, and I considered it haplessly slow. < 1203136763 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I never took it, I have become the lofty "Japanese expert" of the school. < 1203136821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lofty 'Japanese expert' of my school is a Japanese citizen. < 1203136827 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203136854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works out a bit better that way. ;) < 1203136859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was the lofty computer expert at his HS < 1203136860 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet :) < 1203136863 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm that too. < 1203136868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to be that lofty expert in college < 1203136870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my role. < 1203136879 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the lofty electricity/Physics expert. < 1203136880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In college, it sure as fuck won't be mine. < 1203136894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in a school with a damned good CS program. ;p < 1203136897 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :College is coming up soon, and I intend to be the best there, so :) < 1203136909 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lucky I have a day like today to catch my breath from the life stuff. < 1203136910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what college? < 1203136914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summer job at Tuft's, then college. < 1203136927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Missouri University of Science & Technology. < 1203136930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203136936 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come you didn't apply to CMU? < 1203136942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SUNY Farmingdale considered to be good? < 1203136945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: Hmm? < 1203136955 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMU? Carnegie Melon? < 1203136955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMU == ??? < 1203136959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203136966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes < 1203136977 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanford and MIT are there too, but MIT is way up there. < 1203136987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they chuck out your application with an 'F' on the transcript, then I'm screwed. < 1203136990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SUNY Farmingdale's stuff good? < 1203137004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(English == :() < 1203137031 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton is always nice if you're a science geek, and nice on the pocket book too. < 1203137044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone going to answer me? < 1203137046 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the revolutionarily inclined there's Berkeley (or if you want to be an anarchist hobo and waste your life). < 1203137054 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've never heard of Farmingdale. < 1203137066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if not, what's a good place in Long Island? < 1203137109 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rice isn't as good as CMU, but is there. As is Urbana Champaign. < 1203137121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$47,375 is light on the pocket book? < 1203137128 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke :) < 1203137135 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton has one of the most hefty fees, IIRC. < 1203137148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203137160 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berkeley is fairly light on the pocketbook, especially if you're a Californian resident. < 1203137161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say, 'how many millions are you worth?' < 1203137187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I'm not. < 1203137194 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's still a lot lighter than others. < 1203137204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1203137212 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with the prestige/skill of their CS program. < 1203137217 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their EECS is godly, of course. < 1203137326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? < 1203137327 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silence. < 1203137331 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1203137390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be dual-majoring in math and CS. . . < 1203137391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheee. < 1203137411 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably be doing an EECS with some Law somewhere. < 1203137422 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. I wish the gain on my Loop Antenna wasn't so high sometimes. < 1203137462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is SUNY Farmingdale a good CIS program or not? < 1203137469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1203137473 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard of Farmingdale. < 1203137483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you heard of MST? < 1203137499 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most Significant Txxx ? < 1203137520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missouri University of Science and Technology. I'm guessing that's a 'No.' < 1203137537 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tad. < 1203137546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203137549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts? < 1203137551 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't heard much though. And they tried to rabidly contact me, I think. < 1203137569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the big problem with them. . . < 1203137575 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Southern Methodist University, and that horribly annoying Fordham that would not quit. < 1203137583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to overdo the contacting thing. < 1203137586 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a few others contacted me too. < 1203137589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten 5 applications from them. . . < 1203137596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 I received after I was accepted. < 1203137618 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fordham extended their application for me 5 times, while filling out all my information, and waiving the application fee. < 1203137627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1203137636 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extended meaning extended the apply date. < 1203137644 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. I don't want to go to Fordham. So, why. < 1203137649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203137661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite happy with MST. . . < 1203137671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I need to get *off* their contact list. XD < 1203137675 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NYU waived the application fee too, I believe, but NYU is an arts campus. < 1203137691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had teachers suggest that I go to Tuft's. . . < 1203137702 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuft's? Never heard 'o it. < 1203137730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A well-reputed liberal arts college, IIRC. < 1203137734 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203137741 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton is great in the arts, law, and sciences. < 1203137744 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A great mix of 3. < 1203137755 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woodrow Wilson :3 < 1203137795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just imagine me at a liberal arts school. . . < 1203137802 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1203137813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, my long hair and beard would make me *look* like I belong. . . < 1203137827 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the stereotypical female science nerd. < 1203137837 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am bored by non-Law art, so. < 1203137838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But their CS department sucks horribly. < 1203137864 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. For win. < 1203137873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MST's, on the other hand, is quite awesome, and has existed for 50 years, IIRC.) < 1203137877 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NYU has a fairly good science program, but, it's known to be the MIT of Arts. < 1203137882 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I mean, eww. < 1203137886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203137930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you don't like a school in the middle of nowhere, then MST is not for you. . . (why do schools of mines need to be in the middle of nowhere? :p) < 1203137945 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Colorado School of Mines contacted me also. < 1203137957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MST > CSM. . . < 1203137966 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just remembering. < 1203137968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CSM would actually be a sane choice for me. . . < 1203137973 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203137975 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1203137980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about half an hour away. :p < 1203137986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a bit more than that. . . < 1203137986 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it was a quick chuck down the recycle bin. < 1203138006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's more of the low-level, 'If I don't get accepted anywhere else' thing. < 1203138009 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203138016 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My low level is OSU, because my dad went there. < 1203138026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's quite amusing seeing my teachers' high level of regard for that school) < 1203138039 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washington didn't even have admission essays, meh. < 1203138063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, it is the best school in the state. . . < 1203138064 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSU meaning Ohio State. < 1203138077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138131 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Caltech or Princeton would be ideal for me, but both are OMG-HOLY-MACKEREL schools. < 1203138131 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1203138157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where I put MIT at. . . < 1203138162 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caltech has a dash of Pol. Sci, and Princeton's law is of course excellent. < 1203138166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could *not* get into MIT. < 1203138178 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might get into Caltech or Princeton. < 1203138184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they'd throw away my application after seeing my transcript, guaranteed.) < 1203138200 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got an interview from a school in that tier whose name I will not share for luck reasons. < 1203138205 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm in the running, I think. < 1203138231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best of luck to you. < 1203138235 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1203138240 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even bother to MIT. < 1203138258 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if some guy got a shot of unintended Extasy (? the drug ?) would I get in. < 1203138277 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanford was my ZETTAI-UNATTAINABLE. < 1203138325 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what've you been up to pikhq ? < 1203138403 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life involved 7 months of studying for one exam, and now it involves running an anime convention committee, self-studying Linear Algebra/Multivariable Calculus, some light hacking, politics, and languages among other things. I'm also trying to get into some video games, but am realizing what 5 years of video game disuse does. < 1203138457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Studying Japanese, studying calculus, and some light hacking. < 1203138473 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I forgot to mention a new-found devotion to the game of Nomic. < 1203138479 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha! < 1203138488 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomic, I started a game with some friends over that. < 1203138490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You familiar with it? < 1203138491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a player in Agora, which is the longest-running Nomic in existence. < 1203138554 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and also, I'm planning a Senior prank which involves infiltration of the school gradebook and school website. (Some local public school in the area chock full of high-income students got the title "academic powerhouse" after they attempted to crack the school website for finals answers. I resent that just because we have a low income, we are discriminated against.) < 1203138556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 15th Agoran birthday is this June. < 1203138560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooh. < 1203138569 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl folks- gotta restart < 1203138579 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gradebook is already infiltrated. The website is in the works, and I'm in the process of doing some infiltration into the school network. < 1203138585 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203138591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil. ;p < 1203138601 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203138606 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in good fun, of course. < 1203138619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You going to become a regular again if/when your life settles down a bit more? < 1203138626 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesen't help that they have completely publicized a Cisco router. < 1203138632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're kidding. < 1203138636 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1203138646 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the gradebook is a private thing. < 1203138653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they've got telnet access open to the world, I bet. < 1203138663 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some creative cracking and some insider information got me in there. < 1203138671 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. But they will have an nc backdoor soon :) < 1203138680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203138682 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll even run nc with telnet services :D < 1203138719 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cisco router is publicized locally rather. Sorry. < 1203138744 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an external publication. However, I'm thinking of proxying that out. This involves getting admin access to the machine which involves grabbing hashes. < 1203138758 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already done the social engineering needed to grab the hashes. The rest is time and circumspection. < 1203138778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a poorly planned network. < 1203138785 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1203138793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My school's network would probably be trivial to shut down. . . < 1203138801 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a DNS is easy. < 1203138811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The damned thing has 10MB/s links all over the place. < 1203138812 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actual content manipulation takes some skill. < 1203138828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A DOS would probably leave them down for ages. < 1203138830 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No public Wi-Fi anymore, so the limit is working with the bloody school mahines. < 1203138839 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DNS = DOS < 1203138847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203138862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethernet ports are not hard to find. < 1203138872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just kinda set the switches right next to the computers. . . < 1203138879 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the librarians are right there. < 1203138899 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no machine save this 8 year old desktop clunker with a 10-11 year old video card. < 1203138920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the classrooms. . . < 1203138928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With teachers who don't pay attention. . . < 1203138938 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, a laptop is needed. < 1203138987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1203139007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I know a computer lab with the computers mismanaged. . . < 1203139016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert Knoppix and go. < 1203139023 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus school authorities/police prowl the outside. We're a low income school with the gang bit and all. < 1203139102 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy to report, we've had only 1 fatality :) < 1203139134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203139151 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203139161 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew the guy and I was a Freshman at the time, so. < 1203139247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only fatalities at my school that I know of involved an apartment building burning down. . . < 1203139262 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a school building burn down too, but that was before my time. < 1203139265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks, but not quite gang warfare. < 1203139300 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since the school lies on the San Andreas fault-line (yay cheap land!) it got split in half during the '89 Earthquake. < 1203139355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1203139379 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203139384 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well other stuff have happened, but there's no point getting into it. It's just a consequence of being poor and living in a country ruled by free market hawkers. < 1203139387 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy again folks < 1203139396 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and holy crap Sukoshi` is back! < 1203139399 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203139459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, this country kinda sucks in that regard. < 1203139523 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with Guiliani. Let's get rid of all the taxes we can. < 1203139543 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, isn't what makes America great its independent spirit and non-government reliance? *rolls eyes* < 1203139591 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've missed important parts of this conversation < 1203139598 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203139694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you have. < 1203139702 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, how's life been treating you, Sukoshi`? < 1203139710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I just got a first post on /. < 1203139733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without trying. < 1203139787 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busily. < 1203139842 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brief, but descriptive < 1203139852 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since today's the first day of vacation, I have some off time, even though I've been putting off some council stuff. < 1203139988 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last few months have been pretty busy, too- I've been making a lot of things. < 1203140013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking forward to this summer. . . < 1203140017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ought to be less busy. < 1203140026 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too. I get to also join a Diff. Eqs. class :) < 1203140035 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll have all the math I need to start college with an EMW class. < 1203140044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least, I won't end up getting homework from my system administration job. :p < 1203140061 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I plan to fan-translate a Japanese novel. < 1203140115 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have some $200 and am planning either to get a radio scanner or get into some Ham Radio. < 1203140132 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty stuff. < 1203140152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be up in Boston this summer. :) < 1203140155 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I may get an old PS2 and try to get back into the video games thing which I'm faleing at now. < 1203140157 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally finished that pokemon clone I was working on a while back: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CRPG < 1203140172 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on cleaning it up a little and putting together an SDK < 1203140175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my first job will actually be relevant to my career. Imagine that. ;p < 1203140189 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to get some Japanese translation job. < 1203140195 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sysadminning is fairly boring to me. < 1203140214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1203140232 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phrase "internet janitor" comes to mind < 1203140250 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, yah. < 1203140293 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look no further than pmhaddad, who now has no free time and is completely consumed by his $10-an-hour job. < 1203140307 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly my point. < 1203140307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful. < 1203140316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This summer, I'll be making more than pmhaddad. XD < 1203140316 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Course, in a summer job you won't be compromising between work and school, which is what's really retarded about his situation < 1203140338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The job will be $15-an-hour. < 1203140346 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas a translation job will probably be $12/hr, will consume not as much free time, and will be intellectually stimulating assuming you completely ignore the subject matter. < 1203140354 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, wow- IT. What a great use of a CS degree. < 1203140361 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :D < 1203140365 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend the translation job to go on while schooling. < 1203140382 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a fun way of making some cash with a hobby < 1203140394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that $15-an-hour for your first job is not exactly a bad deal, though. < 1203140416 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I'm working as a grader for "Object Oriented Design" at MTU, and I recently started doing undergrad research < 1203140419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than starting at $FASTFOOD at minimum wage. < 1203140438 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, my first job was $5.15, minimum wage at the time < 1203140449 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it wasn't burger flipping. :/ < 1203140452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: That's still nation-wide minimum wage. < 1203140460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few states set it higher. < 1203140462 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :California's minimum wage is a good bit higher, but. < 1203140472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colorado's is more like $6.50 now. < 1203140484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only has been for a year or so. . . < 1203140488 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Michigan is $7.00, I think < 1203140489 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation is a skilled job. At a bare JLPT 1 mastery, not very skilled, but skilled enough to be decent. < 1203140501 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're looking at ~$8.50 here. < 1203140504 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make $7.50 per hour grading, and $8.00 doing research < 1203140535 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to hope research is a skilled job. :| < 1203140546 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203140587 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also been doing some cooking. < 1203140600 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in case my life ends in a horrible climax and I become a housewife (joke). < 1203140661 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to fidget with my too-high-gain loop antenna and hope to get a clear signal for the public TV station. < 1203140676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing more comic art related stuff. Check out a short story I made a few weeks ago: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/Good/ < 1203140677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah; TV. < 1203140680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who has the time? < 1203140699 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I occasionally have enough time to get good political/economic coverage from it. < 1203140700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That time can be better spent reading. < 1203140724 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, the history specials on PBS are always fun. < 1203140743 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's local news, which I eat dinner to... < 1203140745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted. < 1203140761 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mythbusters is still pretty awesome, when I get a chance to catch an episode < 1203140763 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm fidgeting with an antenna, what sort of TV do you expect me to get? :D < 1203140765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually read when I eat. XD < 1203140780 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A homemade loop for me. < 1203140806 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the morning it's almost crystal clear, at night it's not as nice, but still clearer than a dipole ... if you can handle the high gain. < 1203141737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203143289 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: so, did you take a look at "define your good"? < 1203143384 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm? < 1203143396 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/Good/ <- this < 1203144245 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203144284 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203144289 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203144291 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203145352 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?""14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}"14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]} < 1203145355 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?""14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}"14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]} < 1203145382 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]} < 1203145385 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1203145655 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!linguini 1[0=72,0$,0+29,0$,0+7,0$,0$,0+3,0$,1=32,1$,0-24,0$,0+24,0$,0+3,0$,0-6,0$,0-8,0$,1+1,1$,1-23,1$]0 < 1203145659 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203145680 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!linguine 1[0=72,0$,0+29,0$,0+7,0$,0$,0+3,0$,1=32,1$,0-24,0$,0+24,0$,0+3,0$,0-6,0$,0-8,0$,1+1,1$,1-23,1$]0 < 1203145685 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1203145733 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203145737 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203145739 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203146911 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203148706 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night everyone < 1203148799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203148800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203156808 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203157106 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1203157760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: weebees to you, milady < 1203157882 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-80-25.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203158136 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203158471 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203158610 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :) < 1203158614 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I must part, alas. < 1203158629 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203159238 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203162216 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203162671 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203165468 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203166593 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203167822 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203168956 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203169672 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203169915 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203170164 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203170762 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]" < 1203170834 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203172736 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203172740 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203172773 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203176529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1203178665 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has "American mathematical society translations : series 2, volume 29" :D < 1203178692 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the definition of an algorithm", by A.N. Kolmogorov and V.A. Uspenskii < 1203179290 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203180721 0 :otesanek!n=otesanek@217.195.209.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203180915 0 :otesanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203181208 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203181212 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203182673 0 :otesanek!n=otesanek@217.195.209.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203184404 0 :otesanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203185524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203185596 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: read the current discussion in ##Nonlogic. < 1203186364 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203186379 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203187093 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203187664 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203187694 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1203187752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pnog. < 1203187782 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we're using UDP here < 1203187872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1203187877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDP over IRC. < 1203187971 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster and lighter weight, but some transcription errors and packet loss < 1203188033 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203188042 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203188509 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreaWE)(U£$I!!¬+_PACKET ERROR < 1203188528 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kekeke < 1203188590 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://pastebin.ca/905230 what i wish tcl looked like < 1203188599 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an addition to that: < 1203188616 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn K {x} {fn {y} {return $x}} <-- would work < 1203188625 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can be seen trivially if you take a look < 1203188643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203188645 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/return/ret < 1203188646 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1203188652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the examples are stupid < 1203188655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ret [x]} -> {x} < 1203188662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the 'call' part. < 1203188679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[fn {x {+ $x 1}}] 2 < 1203188690 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/906473 update < 1203188707 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, everything's a string, so wouldn't that make it try and call the command of some weird string? < 1203188713 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wouldn't that require special handling of some stuff? < 1203188719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The return value of fn. < 1203188727 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, good point < 1203188741 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'fn' could return the {{args} ...} syntax when used as a string, < 1203188747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as a function -- .. < 1203188749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have first-class functions in Tcl, then functions would need to have a string representation. < 1203188764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i just said -- they do < 1203188767 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{args} ...} < 1203188769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1203188771 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't account for lexical scope, though. < 1203188784 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1203188786 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that hard. < 1203188787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should it? Variables have scope, not values. ;) < 1203188795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/906475 <-- doubly-updated < 1203188814 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because the idea is that the cacheing of otherly-typed values is just an interpreter feature, no? < 1203188818 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203188829 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/906475 NEEDS to be interpreted -- and fat ;) < 1203188831 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1203188834 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast. < 1203188856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how Tcl rolls. ;p < 1203188862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the shell style $num... for one thing, it means that the toplevel can have then as program arguments, fitting in well.. and as another, short functions generally can make use of them well < 1203188884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't much like the $0 and such, though. < 1203188898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not a huge deal. . . < 1203188907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The revolutionary bit is the first-class functions. ;) < 1203188921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: uhh < 1203188923 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what i just said < 1203188923 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203188932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. it fits in with trivial CLI arg handling < 1203188936 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. it's very useful for short functions < 1203188940 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare: < 1203188941 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn dbl {+ $0 $0} < 1203188947 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn dbl {x} {+ $x $x} < 1203188969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already have trivial CLI arg handling. List of args. Big woop. < 1203188976 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you really argue the second is clearer in intent, if you know the $num syntax -- which can be explained in one sentence: "$n is the function's argument n." < 1203188982 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Stil, it's clearner. < 1203188984 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cleaner < 1203188991 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lets you imagine prog = function, basically. < 1203189002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, since shells follow that model, especially with user defined functions, is a correct one. < 1203189015 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just 'another reason' for the sugar, with the other being as above < 1203189062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Tcl script is, in that since, just a function that takes args. < 1203189073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(args is how Tcl does variadic functions) < 1203189097 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Cute, cute. < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you see my point, surely? < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expanding dbl into triple: < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn dbl {+ $0 $0 $0} < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203189113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn triple {+ $0 $0 $0} < 1203189115 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn triple {x} {+ $x $x $x} < 1203189117 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spelling out: < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Function triple, add first, first, first.' < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Function triple, taking x, add x, x, x.' < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is clearer. < 1203189149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For simple cases. < 1203189195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1203189218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't much like it, but even then, that's a simple change to Tcl, and if I don't like it, I don't have to use it. < 1203189238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now I come up with the idea "hey, an implementation couldn't be too hard! i mean, there's a simple Tcl in 500 lines..." and nothing ever actually happens. < 1203189280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implement your ideas, submit it as a TIP for Tcl 9. < 1203189303 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that's no fun < 1203189309 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's far more fun to write a new and revolutionary interpreter. < 1203189313 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203189330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I could make Tk not ugly as all hell by default! Maybe even use native widgets on Win32&OS X. :P < 1203189409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1203189413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not on OS X. < 1203189418 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I know this for a fact :P < 1203189421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does last time I tried it. < 1203189423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2003. < 1203189431 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it does. < 1203189438 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the text widgets, for example, are most certainly not native < 1203189449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know for *sure* that they did that in Tcl 8.5. < 1203189468 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they did it suckily < 1203189470 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203189486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's needed is native widgets for X11 archs. < 1203189508 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Define 'native'. < 1203189520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt and GTK+, in addition to the current implementation. < 1203189522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gtk? Some people use KDE. They want Qt. Oh, some people don't like either -- they want Motif, for chrissakes! < 1203189536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think something that looks passably good would be ok. < 1203189538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk right now imitates Motif. < 1203189544 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as it's stylable you should be alright. < 1203189552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though. < 1203189557 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If i'm going to write my own implementation, < 1203189562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if *that's* all you care about, Tcl 8.5 made Tk stylable. < 1203189564 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use wxWidgets as the backend. < 1203189575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wx is pretty good on all platforms. < 1203189591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with OS X you have to do a few little tweaks to make its pinstripes slightly less fugly than they are by default.. < 1203189593 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's mostly good. < 1203189611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Qt would be terrible. < 1203189617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1203189629 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would mean nobody could develop a Tk app using the Qt backend commercially without paying Trolltech crazy amounts of money. < 1203189643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True 'nough. < 1203189652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only person that would complain would be Larry McVoy. < 1203189661 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I would sure complain. < 1203189665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the reason I don't use Qt. :( < 1203189673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a shame -- Qt as an actual toolkit is *superb* < 1203189675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For your free software? < 1203189693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Correct. < 1203189699 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason I don't use readline.. < 1203189704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(keep in mind that you *can* sell free software. . .) < 1203189721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of immense curiosity, what crack are you smoking? :p < 1203189730 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: libedit crack. < 1203189737 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they want a GPL-alike, the LGPL is there for a REASON) < 1203189776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readline is GPL at the behest of RMS. < 1203189791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea being to only reward free software with a library which, at the time, was unique) < 1203189809 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, well RMS is crazy anyway. < 1203189829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why do you use his licenses? < 1203189846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1203189859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your CTCP version begs to differ. < 1203189874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, I only use X-Chat when I'm on Linux.. < 1203189882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, you are right now benefitting from 20 years of his work. < 1203189898 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just forget about all the other people who did more work while he sat around yelilng < 1203189903 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more convenient. < 1203189928 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha- jesus christ: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=4766 < 1203189933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1203189943 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unfortunate that a lot of software is GPL, indeed, but if the software itself is good I am willing to use it. < 1203189943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you won't mind uninstalling glibc? < 1203189961 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, libraries under the GPL without a linking exception (glibc has one of these, so stfu) are unacceptable. < 1203189968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or everything else written by the GNU project? < 1203189981 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do know that the GNU project != RMS? < 1203189990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's head of it. < 1203189990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I venture RMS's code makes a *very small part* of glibc today. < 1203190003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True enough; it's currently maintained by Red Hat. < 1203190026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you like *Emacs*, you're going to be using his code fairly constantly. < 1203190031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he is the Emacs maintainer) < 1203190043 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, he's head of it but does very little actual coding... (In case you accuse me of copying esr: he's even more of an idiot, and should take his own advice. And hopefully blow his own foot off... he does use C, there is a chance...) < 1203190060 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like Emacs because I code Haskell and haskell-mode.el is the only real solution. < 1203190077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's.. pretty much it. Also, because i have used it for a while I have some of the keycombos in muscle memory. < 1203190106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- and rms sure didn't write haskell-mode < 1203190107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you're willing to call the man fucking crazy, yet benefit from his labors. < 1203190138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. He just wrote the language haskell-mode is in. < 1203190178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: elisp is pretty shitty. < 1203190182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sure, I am. < 1203190189 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he's crying of the hurt. < 1203190208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. He *did* write it with the assumption that it would be running on systems too small to handle a full, decent lisp. < 1203190209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's just a matter of me not having written good haskell support for a decently licensed editor, yet. < 1203190220 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because lexical scoping would kill them, with fire. < 1203190233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was designed with things like the 386 in mind) < 1203190256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, less than the 386. . . < 1203190261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'83. XD < 1203190414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure the 386 could handle a lexically scoped lisp < 1203190414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure something even simpler could too < 1203190422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realised that < 1203190422 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203190424 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help your argument much. < 1203190428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1203190430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme was out in the 70s < 1203190432 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisps before that had lexscoping, of course.. < 1203190434 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a problem < 1203190485 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heck, LISP 1.5 had it. < 1203190496 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently FUNARG is complex and scary and could never work on any machine ever. < 1203190512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, anyone going to touch the Internet-aware BF program? < 1203190524 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not without a 10-foot pole < 1203190556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x00\x02\x03\x03pole\n < 1203190573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x00\x03\x00\n\n < 1203190575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not 10 feet < 1203190579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go < 1203190589 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_textgen pole < 1203190592 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203190610 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1203190621 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck with balanced <>s is concatenative < 1203190622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1203190632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"concatenative"? < 1203190714 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Go read up on programming languages will you? ... < 1203190721 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared of what PSOX will look like otherwise :P < 1203190729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"will look like"? < 1203190824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The core PSOX spec is basically complete < 1203190906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah exactly. < 1203190924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing what concatenativity is isn't really that crucial < 1203191028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, PSOX isn't a programming language < 1203191273 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is < 1203191276 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not turing complete < 1203191278 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is < 1203191289 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it is still a programmin language < 1203191309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it a programming language? < 1203191360 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is an interpreter for it < 1203191369 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it performs actions like user input, output, etc < 1203191374 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: agreed? < 1203191787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a matter of opinion < 1203191835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm.. actually, i don't think it is a programming language < 1203191844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can be called a < 1203191872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: msot everything is a programming language < 1203191874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trivial ones < 1203191890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to help me write a program that will do something intuitive when given http://pastebin.ca/906475? pikhq? :P < 1203192397 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently, not pikhq < 1203192505 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is dead in fact < 1203192537 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunate < 1203192560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, pleasewakeupnow < 1203192572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pikhq] idle 00:38:25, signon: Fri Feb 15 22:18:56 < 1203192596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, ehird`, are you going to examine the Internet-enabled BF program? < 1203192603 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203192665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat? < 1203192676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1203192690 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a little busy mummifying apples at the moment < 1203192926 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: qhkip < 1203192942 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203193126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhq < 1203193189 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203193307 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhq: pikhq: ... eh. > cycle "pikhq: " < 1203193611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203193666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: PSOX isn't a programming language, it's an API. < 1203193680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is basically a language though. < 1203193688 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ANYWAY HELP ME WRITE INTERPRETER FOR AWESOMETHINGTHATLOOKSKINDOFLIKETCL < 1203193691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203193719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask in #tcl. < 1203193734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tcl maintainers may be more helpful than I am. < 1203193765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. Tcl maintainers. A newwww interpreter must exist! < 1203193767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you going to examine/play with that BF program? < 1203193794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Me need shower and cleaning. < 1203193798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, later today. < 1203193917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1203194820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, online.b. . . < 1203194836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1203194844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it basically netcat? < 1203194863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, you're assuming I know what netcat is < 1203194866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1203194879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if so, how do you specify the port it's on? < 1203194895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not netcat < 1203194910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. What port does it connect on? < 1203194912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You put in a URL and it will print out whatever's at that URL < 1203194939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. . .] < 1203194948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. . . < 1203194985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's wget. < 1203194986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever. < 1203195025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, wget saves to disk, this just sends to stdout < 1203195033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying it yourself? < 1203195037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203195079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I suggest sometime doing a bit of a more raw TCP interface? < 1203195100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be a custom domain < 1203195125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be builtin. < 1203195138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like db_fileio. < 1203195166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a "networking" domain? < 1203195171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1203195188 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the other domains need to be worked on first < 1203195202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, maybe I should limit the http domain to URLs beginning with http:// < 1203195657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, HTTP::get will create a new fd. . . < 1203195664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What number would that be assigned? < 1203195704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lowest available FD number < 1203195717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always what new FDs are assigned < 1203195726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FDs 0, 1, 2, and 3 are already taken < 1203195824 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203195847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is the current outfile FD, 1 is the current infile FD, 2 is stdout, 3 is stdin < 1203196008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, make sense? < 1203196041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203196249 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203196267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan < 1203196354 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203196441 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be interesting to try to build a neurode out of electronic things. < 1203196585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo, ihope < 1203196677 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1203196849 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have a ground input, a voltage input, some input inputs, an output, and a feedback thingy. < 1203196893 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The feedback would be at the same voltage as the output, but putting current in and out of it would change what the output's "supposed to be". < 1203197498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoorah. < 1203197515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got myself a much fancier wget script. < 1203197527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It pulls from the command line and won't break on outputting null. < 1203197703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203197772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, a suggested change for PSOX.py. . . < 1203197787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it start with #!/usr/bin/python, and chmod +x. < 1203197800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it's just ./PSOX.py egobfi8 foo.b < 1203197819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would let me install PSOX somewhere, and have my code start with a shebang. . . < 1203197822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And magically work. < 1203198218 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not /usr/bin/env python? < 1203198229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thoughts on my very first PSOX script? < 1203198233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Ah; right. < 1203198244 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or `which python`. :-P < 1203198497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203198499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry hi < 1203198522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was afk < 1203198619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next up: the Brainfuck Audio suite. < 1203198652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, cool < 1203198652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it'd be really nice if the command line handling was nicer than just -c "foo". . . < 1203198678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloaded and tried the wget.b < 1203198679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could do ./PSOX.py egobfi8 bfaudio.b -i raw_audio -o foo.bf < 1203198682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coolness pikhq < 1203198707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not sure how that would work < 1203198714 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203198770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi helios24 < 1203198789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason though, the first time I tried wget.b, it didn't work < 1203198810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b is the first PSOX program made by someone other than me :D < 1203198819 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203198912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you neglect to give it -c? < 1203198932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1203198933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203198934 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made wget.b < 1203198938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, pikhq did < 1203198946 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he didn't < 1203198951 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he questioned about it before < 1203198954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203198960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :online.b is what Sgeo made. < 1203198962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b is mine. < 1203198977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rewrote it to be better. < 1203199001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes the file to get from the command line, and its output routine works with NULLs. < 1203199005 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox is soooo pointless and ugly < 1203199012 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck has been DONE TO DEATH alread < 1203199013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1203199022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203199024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, PSOX works with more than just BF < 1203199048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX works with anything that does I/O. < 1203199057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, technically, do Malbolge with it. < 1203199077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could *trivially* do shell with it. . . Or C. . . < 1203199091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which remind me: I need to get my C-using PSOX library written this weekend. :p < 1203199120 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nice argument too bad you always say 'Oh it's designed for BF!' < 1203199131 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll be crap with anything else < 1203199146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's designed for most any esolang. < 1203199160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the math domain won't be as useful in some, like Glass. < 1203199231 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wrong! Sgeo has claimed many times that he only thinks of BF. < 1203199237 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, there's no POINT for something like this... < 1203199245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs aren't any better because they can make a webserver. < 1203199279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, I mostly think about BF, but that doesn't mean it's exclusively for BF < 1203199321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, is there a point for any esolang? < 1203199354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if maybe ehird` is bitter about the lack of TDATA (the "ANY" type) < 1203199421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's most likely it :D < 1203199464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TDATA was basically ehird`'s idea, and I liked it until it proved to be incompatible with decision to make PSOX types regex-based < 1203199493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with the decision < 1203199558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is candy is the sine of a crayon < 1203199581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird` pinged out in Sine < 1203199595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sine is a network we're both on. I brought him over, actually) < 1203199622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1203199641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know about Sine? < 1203199646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc. < 1203199655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg me the server and port < 1203199673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that. < 1203199676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203199694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know everything about it i've heard in here. < 1203199712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a weird sentence, but it's most definitely true < 1203199917 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203199931 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1203199950 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203199985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, though: TCP domain. < 1203200012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 TCP CONNECT address port \n < 1203200038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0x00 TCP LISTEN port \n < 1203200095 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crap. < 1203200125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap -> < 1203200162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203200571 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1203200595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: What? < 1203200627 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203200654 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You won't help me write awesometclthing < 1203200656 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203200672 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, implementing continuations would scare me < 1203200673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203200823 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw - i really like tcl's lists < 1203200829 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a b c" is a list of a, b, c right? < 1203200831 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so: < 1203200835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "a {b c} d" work? < 1203200835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as nested < 1203200857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203200873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to [list a [list b c] d] < 1203200906 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The "list ..." translates into the string not the other way around < 1203200907 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1203200995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1203201067 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Linked list, or array? < 1203201130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, actually. < 1203201160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't know of Tcl doing some of the fancier things a linked list lets you do, it could well be just an array. < 1203201186 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1203201195 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now help me implement awesomeclosureandlovetcl! :( < 1203201335 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203201507 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random tcl wiki person: "Also - it somehow strikes me again and again this whole concept is about reintroducing the evil goto statement, but kind of neat and nifty so noone would recognise. But this could be because I still might haven't grokked it yet..." < 1203201513 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evil goto' is in bold. < 1203201519 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on continuations) < 1203201586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuations are not like goto. < 1203201614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one could argue that the infamous long_jmp is *like* a continuation. . . < 1203201671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a long_jmp? < 1203201733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's continuation-like thing. < 1203201763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets you jump across functions. < 1203201811 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: setjmp jusrt saves stack length < 1203201827 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the stack goes down beyond setjmp --- nuh uh < 1203201851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: It's not *perfectly* like continuations. . . < 1203201868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, it's a hell of a lot rougher and less, well, formal. < 1203201878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lets just dick with the stack a bit. Yay!' < 1203202046 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: setjmp is equivalent to exceptions < 1203202057 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exceptions are as related to continuations as to goto < 1203202091 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw -- i just realised that if we add closures etc to tcl, refcounting is not enough < 1203202095 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest: < 1203202101 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcount + infrequently run gc < 1203202208 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203202342 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: agreed? < 1203202375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1203202497 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And also, anonymous 'fn's shouldn't return a random name (Jim does this) -- they should have no name < 1203202498 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also agreed? < 1203202512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1203202568 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And the first thing written should be the parser. Agreed x50? :P < 1203202604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, is that a jab at me? < 1203202612 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Huh? < 1203202638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At me writing PSOX specs first instead of immediately working on the interpreter < 1203202647 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, the only thing the parser should do is the obvious token seperation, and making sure ", {, [ are balanced. Then, {...} should be converted to "...". < 1203202652 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, it's seperated like this: < 1203202660 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo {bar $xyz[abc]}"def" -> < 1203202665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: Well, of course. < 1203202673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, "bar $xyz[abc]", "def" < 1203202674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl is fairly trivial to parse. ;) < 1203202677 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even this: < 1203202681 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo {bar $xyz[abc]{def}}"def" -> < 1203202684 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, "bar $xyz[abc]{def}", "def" < 1203202692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Tcl proper, that's a syntax error. < 1203202698 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm, which part < 1203202709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{foo}"bar" < 1203202712 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203202722 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm insure what that should be: < 1203202723 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. error < 1203202725 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. "foobar" < 1203202728 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. "foo" "bar" < 1203202737 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. is shell, 3. is proglang, 1. is tcl :) < 1203202775 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203202821 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1203202834 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thoughts? < 1203202860 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Corun < 1203202928 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None, apparently. pikhq is a zombie. < 1203202929 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203202929 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo < 1203202975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. < 1203202991 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why he's a zombie. < 1203202991 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So -- no preference? < 1203203092 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Guess not. :P < 1203203344 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203203479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: missing = after otherwise < 1203203494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a dagger after Mr. Wong < 1203203521 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know... < 1203203557 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhping < 1203203570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1203203869 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now you are forced to name the interp. :P < 1203203995 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203204141 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You run away! :P < 1203204287 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1203204365 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pikhq pikhq pikhq pikhq :D < 1203204597 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq < 1203204662 0 :volimo!i=osofogo@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3efa00-215.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1203204829 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1203204829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ping < 1203204832 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203204834 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think he's dead < 1203204909 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/42bsd-finger.c.txt can this really be what inspired the IOCCC? I mean, it's not NICE code, loads of magic constants and stuff, but ... < 1203204921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible. he is not saying "BRAINS. BRAINS." < 1203205006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the IOCCC was inspired by cpp definitions making C look like ALGOL or something < 1203205050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sort of has a question regarding the future of PSOX < 1203205104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, maybe you can help? >.> < 1203205111 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thats one of the inspirations < 1203205113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I make the math functions just accept LNUMs? < 1203205115 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Bourne sh < 1203205121 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You should drop PSOX. < 1203205126 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(morale: don't ask my opinion) < 1203205141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, you did have an influence on PSOX < 1203205151 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what? < 1203205153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. "Larry had been trying to fix a bug in the classic Bourne shell (C code #defined to death to sort of look like Algol) and I had been working on the finger program from early BSD (a bug ridden finger implementation to be sure)." < 1203205162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBYTES are called LBYTES not LSTRING < 1203205178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with FBYTES < 1203205185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Blargh. < 1203205191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1203205191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LNUMs are just too complex for some cases. < 1203205216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean single bytes? < 1203205220 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you have proper unistrings yet?.. < 1203205224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203205233 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, UTF-8. < 1203205247 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, you can just replace all L/FBYTES with L/FSTRING, if you just hardcode english text in bf < 1203205254 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. backwards compatible < 1203205259 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still use L/FBYTES for, well, bytes < 1203205279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as far as I can tell, using LNUMs in that case would just be a bit of overhead < 1203205299 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any ideas for a name? < 1203205301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either that, or make a function that switches the type that functions accept (difficult), or make repetitive functions (ugly) < 1203205321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Repetitive functions would not be that ugly as far as I'm concerned. < 1203205347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you think I need a VARG(LNUM) version of each math function? < 1203205396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not subtraction or division obviously) < 1203205436 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody? :( < 1203205443 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 'difficult'? Hardly < 1203205459 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Subtraction or division not varity? Why not? < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;1> (- 1 2 3 4) < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-8 < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;2> (/ 1 2 3 4) < 1203205473 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0416666666666667 < 1203205507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can include VARG() subtraction and division for consistancy < 1203205523 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what's that? < 1203205559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, have you been studying the architecture of PSOX? < 1203205565 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Chicken scheme. < 1203205569 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it probably sucks. < 1203205580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, how are you in a position to comment how easy/difficult it would be to make a switcher function? < 1203205602 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I was saying it hopefully, which would be correct if PSOX's architechture is sane. < 1203205618 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if you say it's difficult, that either means 'I don't know how to do it' or 'The architechture sucks so much that it's difficult' < 1203205634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a minor architecture change would make it feasible < 1203205668 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Will YOU name my tcl-alike? :P < 1203205677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lct? < 1203205688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudo-TCL? < 1203205696 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSL < 1203205698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "itrhge" < 1203205706 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS STUPID LANGUAGE < 1203205741 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pikhq might be the best choice here. :P < 1203205824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, I believe you once said something about making a Haskell version of PSOX? < 1203205850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ptl. < 1203205857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Power-Tool Language. < 1203205870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after Tool-command language, and Tool-Kit, it's only fair. :p) < 1203205873 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ptl -- pronounced 'pittle'. I like that, spelled a bit awkwardly, though. < 1203205874 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes. < 1203205882 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptl 'petal' < 1203205882 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that < 1203205910 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think the parser can be one file long. :P < 1203205920 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems reasonable to me. < 1203205922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1203205930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl's syntax *is* trivial. < 1203205948 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. < 1203205955 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of it is done by eval, anyway :P < 1203205970 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: e.g. the only thing you do with [...] is make sure it doesn't split a token < 1203205990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the {*} rule is probably the only tricky part. < 1203205996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One token into several. < 1203206030 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think with closures etc. {*} is unneeded < 1203206048 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I have irrational dislike of TCL? < 1203206053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's the difference between ptl and tcl? < 1203206058 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Not sure. pikhq has made it sound quite nice. < 1203206059 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never even used it :[ < 1203206067 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good regexp support, the data type stuff actually seems useful.. < 1203206078 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw some code that adds lambda to it.. that's kind of cool < 1203206078 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as elegant as a pure lisp maybe, but sounds nice... ptl - better! < 1203206095 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ptl has closures, real GC, lexical scoping, ... < 1203206103 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and everything's first class (hopefully) < 1203206118 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so I believe I can drop {*}. Correct? < 1203206129 0 :volimo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203206141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if pikhq is opposed to any [eso]projects < 1203206148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: I'm not sure if {*} is handled by closures. < 1203206160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq doesn't hate PSOX or ptl < 1203206162 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i am admittedly quite fuzzy on what {*} actually does < 1203206168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you handle "+ {*}$list"? < 1203206170 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ptl is an esoproject since... when? < 1203206178 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah, that's "+ with-args-of-$list"? < 1203206183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203206183 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, does it only handle lists? < 1203206186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, since it began being discussed in #esoteric ? < 1203206189 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then a *simple* version is: < 1203206191 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply + $list < 1203206197 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I might add some kind of sugar ... < 1203206199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval + $list, actually. < 1203206205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And {*} *is* the sugar. < 1203206209 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, good point... < 1203206218 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but is the sugar used often enough for it to be worthwhile? < 1203206225 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in Tcl when emulating features that ptl will already have? < 1203206228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; that's why it was added in Tcl 8.5 < 1203206254 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. < 1203206256 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this work? < 1203206261 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 {*}$list 3 < 1203206270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203206283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {*} expands a token into many tokens. < 1203206304 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eval does it, though, right? < 1203206308 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, $list wouldn't work. < 1203206320 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, does any expansion take place? < 1203206321 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1203206327 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 {*}$list 3 -> < 1203206331 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval + 1 $list 3 < 1203206341 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just evaluated directly? < 1203206357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ 1 {*}$list 3 -> + 1 10 11 12 13 3 < 1203206388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, should I attempt to make a switching function, or are redundant functions ok? < 1203206391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.tcl.tk/17158 < 1203206396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Redundant functions. < 1203206417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are redundant functions better than a switcher, or merely "acceptable"? < 1203206432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1203206439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso? < 1203206506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say I'm dealing with both chars and Lnums? < 1203206564 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think {*} is a crap name < 1203206576 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer: <*$list> < 1203206579 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or <#$list> < 1203206588 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, that obscures the semantics of {...} i think. < 1203206644 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, I can leave that out for now. < 1203206675 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now -- should parsing be on files/streams or strings? < 1203206679 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unicode strings, of course.) < 1203206691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings, I think. < 1203206696 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think strings, because I mean all code using eval and uplevel and crap is going to involve parsing strings anyway. < 1203206703 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wrapping a string in a file is a bad solution when it's so common. < 1203206709 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: If parsing is fast and simple on strings.. < 1203206865 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, all agreed. < 1203206871 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now, obviously (char *) is not a string. < 1203206905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're not talking about PSOX STRINGs? < 1203206906 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you suggest using available unicode routines (safer, but there generally aren't any decent ones sans glib's, and glib is big 'n bloated just for that...) or writing my own (probably broken, but small&fast) < 1203206913 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: PSOX PSOX PSOX PSOX PSOX. < 1203206949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1203207003 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, one thing I hope we can agree on: Strings should be utf-8 internally. It's probably what you want to output, probably what you want to input (Assuming a platonically ideal world), so it's best to keep it utf-8 all the way through. < 1203207022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1203207031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in Tcl, and so it must be in Ptl. < 1203207040 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1203207074 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.icu-project.org/ Hmm. < 1203207143 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They use UTF-16. < 1203207156 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I prefer UTF-8, but with such mature-looking libraries... what do you think? < 1203207157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203207161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1203207192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell; if you've got mature libraries for UTF-16, why not? < 1203207197 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, a lot of code points fit into one value in utf-16, so maybe simple operations on them would be faster < 1203207203 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just all the conversion at both ends I'm worried about.. < 1203207362 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thoughts? < 1203207373 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and since we're clogging up #esoteric with non-esoterica: #ptl < 1203207442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else started getting logged out of wikipedia all the time? < 1203207797 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203207859 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203208082 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203208225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the most common logic operations? < 1203208268 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I don't understand what you mean < 1203208276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia, NOT, AND, OR, those kinds < 1203208290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm putting NOT first, but what other ones are needed most? < 1203208303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe AND and OR? < 1203208306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that order? < 1203208342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMOR < 1203208343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bit-twiddling XOR is also important < 1203208356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMOR? < 1203208364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so should XOR go after OR? < 1203208384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exclusive-maybe-or < 1203208410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the operation found in natural languages < 1203208421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the english or. < 1203208472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should PSOX use the bitewise operators, or the boolean? < 1203208482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should both be fit in? < 1203208513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the bitewise squingies can do boolean, but boolean operators are more quandriligious < 1203208520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1203208538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend both, myself. < 1203208551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean AND, then bitwise AND < 1203208592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... don't you have types? < 1203208598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you like, overload < 1203208609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that type of types < 1203208866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203209031 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203209143 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203209398 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just NAND. < 1203209403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't implement any others. < 1203209410 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To implement others would be UTTERLY non-esoteric. < 1203209422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, I don't want PSOX to be painful to use < 1203209429 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? :P < 1203209459 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :iihop < 1203209462 0 :iihop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1203209482 0 :iihop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. I grew an extra i. < 1203209507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION politely doesn't mention what he lost < 1203209533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iihop: congratulations, now you have the normal amount. < 1203209556 0 :iihop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wonderful. < 1203209577 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iihop is the new IHOP restaurants sponsored by Apple. < 1203209590 0 :iihop!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :iIHOP < 1203209591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iIhop. < 1203209593 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't I think of that? < 1203209621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capitalization counts in XChat's nick coloration < 1203209755 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody sane uses nick coloration < 1203209802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: why's that? < 1203209802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, please do stop calling me insane < 1203209822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think I should really include the VARG() variations < 1203209825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i take that as an insult, i'm fairly insane. < 1203209826 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1203209826 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly, anyway < 1203209833 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203209837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: of course you are. must i search for the cheshire cat quote again? < 1203209843 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's very distracting! ;) < 1203209856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheshire cat quote? < 1203209861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then. < 1203209887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's fairly *ugly*, and most nick colorings always fail to distinguish the nicks that would most need distinguishing < 1203209891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1203209899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a nice idea! < 1203209909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1203209935 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1203209939 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203209947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want nick coloring done right, base it upon the md5 sum of the name. :p < 1203209958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done implementing a good portion of domain4 < 1203209960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo! < 1203209973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: randomization is ok, but you can do better. < 1203209996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it just needs documenting, and also warnings that e.g. conversions from a number to a string only work for certain bases.. < 1203209997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps randomization + comparing to already-assigned colors? < 1203210002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1203210030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus weighing by nick lengths and hamming distance to existing nicks < 1203210034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a better distance < 1203210066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick coloring is art < 1203210131 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use neural nets! < 1203210212 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is nick coloring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing_map < 1203210305 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, inverse hamming distance. < 1203210317 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want to tell apart "foodlepip" and "foodlepop" more than "sad" and "AifnAk" < 1203210336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: i didn't specify the function, just that you need to take into account the hd, < 1203210337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1203210379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AifnAk < 1203210382 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1203210387 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one cool nick < 1203210396 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't i invent it < 1203210401 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so simple.. < 1203210524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must warn you that it is a very naughty word in basque < 1203211024 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203211033 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203211053 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sorry. < 1203211060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1203211061 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to join #ptl. < 1203211061 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invite me? < 1203211108 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was able to join < 1203211196 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1203211277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally gave ehird a wrong command as e left < 1203212884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-utils.txt < 1203212887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoughts? < 1203213052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan? < 1203213058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat? < 1203213061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR? < 1203213130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong. < 1203213132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203213143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments on what I posted? < 1203213151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-utils.txt < 1203213539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any comments? < 1203213559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone? < 1203213566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone in here alive, for that matter? < 1203213578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1203213646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works. < 1203213684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does xor only take one arg? < 1203213685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the arthmatic functions too high up in number? < 1203213711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's because the documentation's wrong < 1203213718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's implemented correctly (I think) < 1203213800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: drop the boolean funcs < 1203213803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use bitwise for them < 1203213823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a boolean not? < 1203213848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe drop booleans except for boolean not? < 1203213852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, good point < 1203213863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But other bitwise ops like and, or... work fine when treating them as booleans < 1203213867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about boolean XOR? Can that be done as bitwise? < 1203213872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just end up passing '54' to if(..), which isn't a problem < 1203213879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Boolean XOR works fine as bitwise, I think < 1203213883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus nobody uses boolean xor!! < 1203213895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyvm ehird < 1203213938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls -1 being true in Oric BASIC, so not worked equally well boolean and bitwise < 1203213957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i think. it's been a long while. < 1203213965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 should be true. < 1203213966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203213974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isTrue = (/= 0) < 1203213975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean _the_ true < 1203213979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203213981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth does that too < 1203213986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that all bits are set < 1203213988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's 111111111111 < 1203214077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do we have an issue with boolean XOR or not? < 1203214080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION commits < 1203214089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-utils.txt < 1203214388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1203214391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean not= < 1203214408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(x&1) < 1203214409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1203214421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1203214425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1203214451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(== 0) < 1203214456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sure < 1203214459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he doesn't have == < 1203214459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203214488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot make it from bitwise operators < 1203214546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1203214578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ô€€€ SECOND LAST UNICODE CHARACTER ô€€€ < 1203214582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many of your clients broke there? < 1203214593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ô¿½ WELL HOW ABOUT THIS ONE ô¿½ < 1203214615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question marks show up just fine, thank you ;) < 1203214625 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203214633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saved by being broken already :D < 1203214662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0FFFD 10FFFD < 1203214692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there a problem with the only boolean being boolean NOT? < 1203214699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nope, no problem at all < 1203214748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see, you had another piece of influence over PSOX. Because of you, I removed unnecessary boolean operators < 1203214768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203214772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, ok, i am warming to it < 1203214775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203214780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203214812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ok then.. how's this for an actually fun idea.. < 1203214815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox gui domain < 1203214820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DON'T go implementing it, I want to < 1203214820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203214836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... omg, i can't handle the awesome < 1203214839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: < 1203214841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses domain < 1203214853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphical game of life, and graphical-console game of life! < 1203214856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, graphical mandelbrot! < 1203214868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sgeo: All who think this idea is awesome, raise your hand < 1203214870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203214874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION raises hand < 1203215124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://wiki.tcl.tk/15348 this is awesome < 1203215143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe events can be done by checking an infile descriptor? < 1203215187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe. I'm thinking, though, that PSOX needs a way to send some code over the wire. :P < 1203215197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be kind of weird though. < 1203215199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"over the wire"? < 1203215234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: To PSOX. < 1203215242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you'd have to write BF code to output a program < 1203215244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fun! :) < 1203215255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an infile sounds about right. < 1203215257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1203215260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it window-specific. < 1203215265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudocode: < 1203215273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fd = mkwin(640,480) < 1203215273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant for a domain to transmit stuff without being asked to.. < 1203215283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btn = mkbtn("CLICK ME") < 1203215300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addwidg(1,btn) # 1 is window number < 1203215308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait_on(fd) < 1203215311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handle_event(fd) < 1203215317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Something like that. < 1203215333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a GUI hello world should be about 7 lines of commented code, without densely-packed lines. < 1203215334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed? < 1203215337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like what I said, or were you reinforcing the pseudocode? < 1203215339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: LMAO < 1203215359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Something like what you said, yes < 1203215363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more modular though. < 1203215367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a button has its own fd < 1203215368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wait on that fd < 1203215374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to handle events for just that button < 1203215381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make things simpler, for larger GUIs < 1203215389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I have a list of custom domains I'd like to see, and GUI is one of them < 1203215399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In the spirit of esotericism, I imagine I will use PyGame and draw my own widgets < 1203215406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, is actually an advantage: It means e.g. mandelbrot is easier. < 1203215430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would also make things simpler because it could be designed around PSOX. < 1203215433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Tk? < 1203215437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So I guess I will write it tomorrow. Wish me luck. < 1203215444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. We've just been talking about it. < 1203215445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometime later. Much later.) < 1203215450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1203215461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will be a lot simpler to write our own, because we don't have fancy stuff needed. < 1203215464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently thinking: < 1203215470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy. < 1203215473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a widget like a button, has a infile descriptor < 1203215478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can check that for events, basically. < 1203215479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you looking into how to write domains? < 1203215487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I will tomorrow. I am going soon today. < 1203215494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this means that you can write bigger guis without much fuss < 1203215498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the thing about 1 fd per widget is that the client would need to keep changing FDs < 1203215511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Make the IO operations take an FD as an argument. < 1203215521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ provide special ones that operate on the current fd < 1203215535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I will just use pygame and draw my own simple widgets, because doing the event stuff with another gui toolkit would be painful < 1203215539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if the FD never transmits a 0x0A, you can infinite loop on that FD by only ever calling the input function once < 1203215577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't do that.. leave it up to the console driver to handle that stuff < 1203215586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wha? < 1203215593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why do you wait for 0x0A? < 1203215601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read a character, then send it off < 1203215605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because one of the ways of getting input is a line at a time < 1203215612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. One of the ways. < 1203215633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other way is calling the input function 1nce for X characters < 1203215635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g2g < 1203215637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, just add functions that take an FD as an argument. < 1203215639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot nicer. < 1203215641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye :) < 1203215644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will write it tomorrow. < 1203215696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, how does everyone pronounce PSOX? < 1203215700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce it as 'Pee socks'. < 1203215742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here, although "P S O X" is truer to the epitomology < 1203215749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wahtever you call it < 1203215786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 'pee socks' is a bit unfortunate though < 1203215816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: By the way, I am also going to implement a metadomain. < 1203215824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lets you define and implement domains from within a PSOX app. :D < 1203215879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: With this, I will then define trivial things like the http domain within brainfuck, using the tcp one < 1203215879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1203216004 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird's is how my phonological loop pronounces it. < 1203216215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iIHOP: Thoughts on a bf gui lib? :P < 1203216254 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what other programming languages do. < 1203216278 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, I suppose, means using lots of libraries. < 1203216350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iIHOP: No-- i mean, < 1203216354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome idea or not? < 1203216362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you could do a brainfuck interactive mandelbrot < 1203216372 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203216374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a brainfuck game of life, with editor < 1203216391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203216399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a brainfuck graphical calculator < 1203216402 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to be more interested in theory than practice. < 1203216406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or -- A brainfuck IDE in brainfuck! < 1203216415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iIHOP: Yeah, me too. But this is a pretty awesome idea, I think. < 1203216438 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that a BF GUI thingy could be written and the results could be replicated more easily is enough for me. < 1203216479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iIHOP: I don't follow what you're trying to say < 1203216542 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to write a Mandelbrot program in BF, but it's also possible to write a program that does exactly the same thing in some other programming language. < 1203216547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know how you said you were going to write a c lib using PSOX? < 1203216548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad to see that ehird is interested in PSOX. < 1203216554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah? < 1203216559 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it can be fun to write programs in BF, of course. < 1203216572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I bet I can do it with less C constructs and more PSOX constructs. :-P < 1203216584 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd rather learn how to do it than actually do it. < 1203216599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was planning to have the types be lnum_t and such. < 1203216602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1203216611 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that I know how to do my chemistry homework doesn't mean I want to do it. :-P < 1203216625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll make it more awesome, and just make all ints be lnum_t and similar < 1203216636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So NO conversion, but NO construction of types -- that's in C! < 1203216664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or I'll actually *write a libc* < 1203216665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if I did it in C++, then I'd have to overload the operators for the math calls. :p < 1203216678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, writing a libc would be a cool use of time. < 1203216685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.. < 1203216691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better with PSOX, because that's just crazy < 1203216693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless, but quite cool. < 1203216700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started to write a libc as part of an OS I was writing once. < 1203216715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendly tip: string/memory functions are easy. I/O is not. < 1203216715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even cooler if you decide to create a better, replacement libc. < 1203216734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, I'd think, would be obvious. < 1203216741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Format? *shudder* < 1203216749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf is pretty easy actually. < 1203216767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CRAZY IDEA: Writing libcox (libc-psox? Get it? Ahahahahahaha. :|), recompiling the python interpreter with it, then running PSOX under it, but with it using THAT instance of psox... Infinite loop! < 1203216770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the string functions are fairly straightforward, and the memory functions are wrapped up syscalls. < 1203216781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Too crazy. < 1203216798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, How about just one level of nesting. < 1203216798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203216840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to see a TCP domain, so that 'wget' can be done the hard way, and I could right netcat, and. . . < 1203216844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/right/write/ < 1203216846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I will do that, tomorrow. < 1203216849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1203216850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems an obvious step to me. < 1203216853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, an FFI, possibly. < 1203216857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitary Python/C function mapping. < 1203216876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combined with my metadomain domain, you can define arbitary domains using python functions from within an esolang < 1203216876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203216894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the TCP domain can be made from within BF < 1203216899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God. < 1203216904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. :D < 1203216932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I use that in PEBBLE, then I'd have a python_inline command. :p < 1203216963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, maybe not python_inline so much as python_func "name" "intype intype ..." "outtype" < 1203216970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, same for C functions. < 1203216985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can provide a PSOX interface to malloc/free -- without leaving the comfort of BF. ;D < 1203217014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm afraid that the Brainfuck coding universe will never be the same. < 1203217021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most certainly not. < 1203217043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now excuse me while I go and write a graphical IRC client in Brainfuck with only the metadomain and the ffi. < 1203217051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1203217121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. gtg now. Shall write libcpsox, many domains tomorrow... and ptl. :) < 1203217176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metadomain? ffi? < 1203217185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign Function Interface. < 1203217187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Metadomain = define PSOX domains in PSOX. < 1203217192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFI = call C and Python functions in PSOX. < 1203217196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1203217204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically sums it up: < 1203217205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" You can provide a PSOX interface to malloc/free -- without leaving the comfort of BF. ;D" < 1203217208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Now excuse me while I go and write a graphical IRC client in Brainfuck with only the metadomain and the ffi." < 1203217244 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"rebooting server" < 1203217246 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203217270 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203217305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And a BF->C compiler that, when compiling a non-PSOX program, uses libcpsox < 1203217305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203217366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And c2bf with PSOX. Anyway, bye for now. Levae any notes in here, i'll check logs. < 1203217373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203217415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think I'm going to make it easier to access other FDs from input and output, switching will be the way to go < 1203217426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't have the time to actually implement PEBBLE 2 ATM. < 1203217435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may, however, have the time to make BFbasic uses PSOX. :p < 1203217435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you might want to ignore what I said about waiting on FDs by retrieving lines < 1203217440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might not work < 1203217443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, BFbasic? < 1203217530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari's Basic->Brainfuck compiler. < 1203217757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Basic == Ugh. < 1203217940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes that domain-writing isn't too ugly-difficult for ehird to do what he wants < 1203217970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a fixed number of functions that have fixed types, it's easy, but changing the types dynamically is a different story < 1203218009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the current architecture doesn't allow a domain to just go and make.. well, actually it does < 1203218040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since psoxglobals (a module to hold global variables) is used promiscuiously < 1203218084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad ehird is excited about PSOX though < 1203218195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Sgeo: I'm afraid that the Brainfuck coding universe will never be the same." < 1203218196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD < 1203218198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203218249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyvm < 1203218294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm writing the preprocessor for PEBBLE2 ATM. < 1203218301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203218597 0 :lispy!n=dagit@198.145.244.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203218610 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the puprose of #esoteric? < 1203218626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe should change the topic back < 1203218640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what _was_ the last on-topic topic, anyone? :D < 1203218640 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :back < 1203218675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming languages, such as brainfuck, unlambda etc. < 1203218717 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1203218723 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is esoteric about them? < 1203218732 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses brainfuck at work < 1203218736 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no that's C++ < 1203218738 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1203218740 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I confuse them < 1203218746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily done :D < 1203218779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they are languages that may seem even worse than C++, at least until you delve deep enough into it < 1203218794 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is probably the only programming language that you can write a compiler for more easily than you can write an interesting program in < 1203218824 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because, I wrote the bf compiler that lambdabot uses, but I can't write anything in bf :) < 1203218835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written quite a few things in Brainfuck. < 1203218841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My most recent hack is wget.b. < 1203218862 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you added enough IO to do wget? < 1203218864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203218879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo here wrote PSOX, which allows for quite a few insane features. < 1203218891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe ehird is planning on doing GUI with it tomorrow. < 1203218915 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is HTTP::get, a system call then?, well a function call < 1203218939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a PSOX call. < 1203218975 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's not really bf so much as bf++ or bf2? < 1203218987 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's craniumfuck? < 1203218989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, it's not just for BF. Just about any language can use it < 1203219018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a layer that goes between BF (or whatever) and standard I/O < 1203219040 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, let me get this straight, you had to extend the bf language to allow this to work, right? < 1203219054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1203219059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the language. It's more like an interpreter < 1203219070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick a standard Brainfuck interpreter in. < 1203219083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX binds to that interpreter's stdio, and interprets that. < 1203219092 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally bf would ignore sequences like PSOX_Init < 1203219097 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203219103 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203219114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The string "PSOX_Init" is a comment, actually < 1203219116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will ignore PSOX_Init. < 1203219126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stuff before that is what initialises PSOX. ;p < 1203219141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outputting 0x00 0x07 0x01 0x0A 0x00 0x00 0x0A is the PSOX_Init < 1203219150 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay < 1203219152 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I get it < 1203219161 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice < 1203219164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1203219226 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more evidence that turing complete does mean something important :) < 1203219311 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys work with python too? < 1203219326 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay sorry, that was meant to be a joke making fun of python) < 1203219348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a Python person, can't say for the others < 1203219371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, wait, were you noting that PSOX is implemented in Python? < 1203219399 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: was it? no actually, I'm just completely poking fun at python here < 1203219429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python, unlike Ruby, has a readable syntax :p < 1203219434 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, what? re turing complete < 1203219441 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they left out the type annotations :) < 1203219450 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: bf is turing complete < 1203219479 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-202-40.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203219479 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: and so even though it seems kinda worthless for real work, because it's TC, you can do cool things like wget just as long as you have IO < 1203219498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brought lispy here from #haskell by accident, for those who don't know :) < 1203219504 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, This is true of non turing complete languages < 1203219529 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: I suppose so in some cases. But, BF happens to be TC. < 1203219536 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, This is true of subturing languages ** what I meant to say < 1203219539 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why i phrased it that way :) < 1203219565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC just means able to make any computation that a computer can make. That's part of the motivation for PSOX, actually, because I wanted BF to be able to do anything a generic program can do, which is how I kept mistakenly thinking of TC < 1203219637 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which reminds me...since TC definition doesn't involves a system clock and user input. I've sometimes wondered if there are things we could make a modern computer do that a TC technically cannot. < 1203219655 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er TC program < 1203219676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, go online, which standard BF cannot do < 1203219873 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and truely seeds < 1203219874 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203219880 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using outside entropy i guess < 1203219885 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er truely random seeds < 1203219903 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, has anyone written a mersenn twister in bf? < 1203219918 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other high quality prngs? < 1203219950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric - Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1203219987 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to head home and stop reading papers for the day < 1203220011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slightly modified from 18.05.07) < 1203220042 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but there are only 12 months in a year, so what date is that? ;) (sorry, I live in the US and like to intentially be a dumbass about dates ) < 1203220064 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I wish we all used the format YY/MM/DD < 1203220072 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or YYYY/MM/DD < 1203220107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find it interesting that i considered clarifying that date, and rejected the thought because 18 > 12 anyway < 1203220190 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either YY/MM/DD or DD/MM/YY. < 1203220205 0 :iIHOP!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203220240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YYYY/MM/DD makes a bit more sense, if you look at what's best for computers wrt sorting < 1203220262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, in numerical systems where the leftmost digit is most significant >.> < 1203220315 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203220319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi puzzlet < 1203220331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is excited about GUI BF programs tomorrow :D < 1203220487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a bug in the input domain < 1203220501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets unreasonably slow eventually < 1203220576 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed. < 1203220594 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just make all notations big-endian. < 1203220609 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always put the most significant word at the beginning of a sentence, and all. < 1203220643 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 2008 February 16 PM 10:57, everyone! < 1203220697 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since a week is between a month and a day, you can also say "2008 February Saturday 16" where it's important. < 1203220704 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203220723 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :puzzlet < 1203220883 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, today is indeed today... is that in any way significant? < 1203220921 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks not and goes to bed, probably < 1203220925 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's the timezone < 1203220941 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1203220958 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well, I'm off < 1203221473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I'll be here tomorrow to help ehird if needed < 1203221488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, I hope that ehird will be able to figure everything out on eir own < 1203221550 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203221554 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203221703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should get going now < 1203221729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203221836 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203222177 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-106-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203223172 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203225218 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy, http://www.jsoftware.com/ < 1203225250 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn, gwern left < 1203225301 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1203225303 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel < 1203225420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a curse, i say! < 1203225437 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an #esoteric curse :) < 1203225451 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes bad puns regularly < 1203225911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bakes mud pans regularly < 1203225936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should make baking mud pans a regulated action < 1203225961 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203225995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Agora, an action is regulated if it affects something an officer has to report on, among other things. < 1203226560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking wonderful. < 1203226568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone modded one of my /. posts redundant. . . < 1203226575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the 4th post on the article, for God's sake. < 1203226651 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped posting on /. a while ago because the mods seemed to be pretty vicious < 1203226753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; for a while, my account had negative karma for one post. < 1203226807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does redundant even get metamodded? < 1203226851 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1203226860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one thing to moderate a post identical to mine that came 10 minutes after 'redundant', but come on. . . < 1203226873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only post made that covered the same topic was about half a second before mine. < 1203227219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well; it got modded back up. < 1203227282 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashdot is a pretty tough MMO, but I hear it gets more fun at the higher levels < 1203227364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1203227402 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook and Myspace are pretty popular RPGs, but they're mostly just grindfests < 1203227439 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Digg is pretty much a dumbed-down clone of slashdot- I think they wanted to cater to the console crowd < 1203227502 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deviantart has a pretty sophisticated crafting system, but I think the fanbase is too creepy < 1203227515 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, I tend to stay away from online games < 1203230163 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203230190 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-106-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203230195 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203230940 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1203231093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1203232371 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203232953 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1203233480 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-106-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203233486 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203235199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203235200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203237159 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-106-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203238034 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203238096 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203239781 0 :Dagide!n=dak@host91-85-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203240504 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203241265 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1203241626 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-106-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203241633 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203242197 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-106-61.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203242684 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203243792 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203244275 0 :sco50000!n=scott@unaffiliated/sco50000 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203244291 0 :sco50000!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL :D < 1203244319 0 :sco50000!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203244539 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1203244587 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" brainfuck is probably the only programming language that you can write a compiler for more easily than you can write an interesting program in" <<< nope < 1203244633 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null-language. Compiler: "main(){}" And no matter how hard you try, you can't write an interesting program in it. < 1203244712 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy: python is the simplest and intuitive language on earth < 1203244961 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thai yellow curry is the most flavorful and delicious food on Earth. < 1203244973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[an argument just as easy to defend :P ] < 1203244986 0 :AifnAk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1203245060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: why defend something everyone knows is true < 1203245079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i had some curry < 1203245098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[12:35] --> sco50000 has joined this channel (n=scott@unaffiliated/sco50000). < 1203245098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[12:36] INTERCAL :D < 1203245098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[12:36] <-- sco50000 has left this channel ("Leaving"). < 1203245112 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO wurves INTERCAL. < 1203245116 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's no big surprise. < 1203245119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should keep track of newcomers' intentions, not all are irpers! < 1203245124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203245129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it he an oldie < 1203245171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to brush the intercal taste away -> < 1203246596 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please say please say please say please say please say please say cheese. < 1203250037 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203250311 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203252637 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203252660 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203252678 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203253659 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203253665 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203253832 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203253839 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203255118 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203258097 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203258208 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203261490 0 :Dagide!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203262709 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ursala is really crazy < 1203262716 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyyyyyyup < 1203262798 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alphabet is too small to give names to all the "pointers", so they added numbered "escapes" for extension < 1203262842 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203262853 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn;t get that far yet < 1203262928 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203263668 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An operator precedence relation exists, but it is neither transitive, reflexive, nor anti-symmetric." < 1203263672 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1203263715 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some operators have multiple arities, with each arity having its own precedence < 1203263795 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine as long as it's all well-defined. < 1203263975 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specification recommends trial-and-error for discovering the precedence rules rather than attempting to understand the description :P < 1203264030 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1203264095 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also featuring prefix, infix, postfix, "solo" and circumfix/outfix operators < 1203264136 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(many operators usable in more than one fixity) < 1203264142 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203264232 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gosh. < 1203264777 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203265086 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: no, not yours < 1203265095 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203265101 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner's gosh. < 1203265119 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of gosh to go around < 1203265207 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About how much gosh do you have? < 1203265233 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In cubic meter pascals per Kelvin mole? < 1203265837 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 1 square foot per square fortnight Kelvin mole < 1203265866 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Reaumure mole < 1203265948 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rankine, surely? < 1203265960 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is "Reaumure"? < 1203266044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale < 1203266091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disposes of the stray 'e' with a flyswatter < 1203267766 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203268271 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, I just used the adjective "Internetty" < 1203268273 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... in referring to the political compass readings of Mike Gravel (D) and Dennis Kucinich (D) < 1203268283 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203268287 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203268303 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use "Internet-esque". < 1203268304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internetty sounds like a silly name for a mascot < 1203268345 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Internetty the tube! Don't look inside, though- he's filled with porn and social networks!" < 1203268701 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203270142 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203273094 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203274065 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203275647 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203275661 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203277480 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203277869 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203277932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203278423 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: plz let it access FDs < 1203278426 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be so convenient < 1203278462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Supper" < 1203278489 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg < 1203278491 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic is back on topic < 1203278493 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did that happen < 1203278532 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1203278550 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between porn and social networks? < 1203278560 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are social networks just porn for girls? < 1203278590 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy: are you a markov chain bot? < 1203278621 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I markov "Internetty" chain bots? < 1203278629 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry) < 1203278635 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: no! < 1203278646 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I play one on IRC < 1203278686 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a megahal here on freenode called {}, boy, that was a fun bot < 1203278693 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lispy: crazy nick < 1203278699 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only 'I' was available < 1203278704 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I was talking to I yesterday, and..' < 1203278706 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it kinda looks like a .... um... nevermind < 1203278708 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better: 'myself' < 1203278729 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most irc clients show'd the bot as <{}> < 1203278735 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* you :Erroneous Nickname < 1203278738 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck. you. freenode. < 1203278760 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1203278764 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have awesome nicks registered anyway < 1203278766 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203278775 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some of your awesome nicks? < 1203278790 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: Actually they aren't very awesome. < 1203278798 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my most awesome nick is ihop. < 1203278799 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 'rice' though, which is a dictionary word so I guess that's pretty cool. < 1203278813 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( Python, unlike Ruby, has a readable syntax :p <-- bullcrap, ruby is beautiful ... well, kinda. it's like perl but less ugly.) < 1203278829 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hyperpyrexia < 1203278835 0 :hyperpyrexia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a dictionary word. :-P < 1203278837 0 :hyperpyrexia!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203278862 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'rice' is short though < 1203278868 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I was pretty close to getting 'z' at one point.. < 1203278876 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the bastard logged in for the first time in ages :( < 1203278896 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a legal nick? < 1203278906 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes. < 1203278909 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :i < 1203278914 0 :i!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one isn't. < 1203278917 0 :i!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203278917 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registered or forbidden, most all of them. < 1203278920 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :i < 1203278923 0 :i!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1203278925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeppers. < 1203278957 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why i is may-not-be-used and you is erroneous. < 1203278957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a script that checks every one-letter nick and tells me which are available for dropping. < 1203278969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: freenode's ircd is.. not the cleanest thing < 1203278972 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :c < 1203278976 0 :c!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203278980 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203278991 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun stuff. < 1203279020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :c < 1203279028 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing special on that one. < 1203279029 0 :c!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- The nickname [c] is private < 1203279030 0 :c!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1203279041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always use /ns info < 1203279043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before trying < 1203279055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they haven't been logged in for a month or a few, celebrate < 1203279058 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nickname [a] is private. The nickname [B] is private. The nickname [c] is private. < 1203279059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then #freenode and ask for droppation < 1203279065 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun stuff. < 1203279066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :y < 1203279076 0 :y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is... available < 1203279076 0 :y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1203279079 0 :y!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1203279084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1203279085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit < 1203279086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1203279098 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnit wait? < 1203279100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Y < 1203279103 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203279121 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinator < 1203279124 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! ha! ha! < 1203279197 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1203279199 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could get Q < 1203279199 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203279357 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Y for me < 1203279360 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be a combinator. < 1203279369 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and q is erronous < 1203279379 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I know! I should start my own network so I can get a one-char nick :P < 1203279383 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203279394 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or get that nick on Sine. < 1203279405 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: There's no nickserv, is there < 1203279418 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ami's kind of one. < 1203279430 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. But that doesn't let me secure both 'Y' and 'q'. < 1203279431 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203279436 0 :Y!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Yq < 1203279439 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owned < 1203279444 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1203279445 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 years < 1203279778 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, the nick "aefn" isn't registered. < 1203279816 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I prefer long nicks, though. < 1203279836 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ThreePointOneFou < 1203279837 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aefn < 1203279845 0 :ThreePointOneFou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's as long as it gets? My. < 1203279846 0 :aefn!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Yq < 1203279873 0 :ThreePointOneFou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd typed it out to "ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNineTwoSixFiveThreeFiveEightNineSevenNineThreeTwoThree" in case nick lengths could go that far. < 1203280367 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas spread fast < 1203280372 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : spb: Feel like donating a single character nick to me? < 1203280379 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203280692 0 :ThreePointOneFou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1203280704 0 :ThreePointOneFou!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1203280763 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: question about tcl < 1203280770 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't return values and output redundant? < 1203280785 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in shell, i guess you do have the error status, but mostly subshells output are their 'return' < 1203281070 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203281166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAs ehird in here earlier? < 1203281196 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am ehird. < 1203281226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you good at lojban? < 1203281251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I used to know a drop of lojban, and sort of know the basics < 1203281275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yq, are you going to work on those domains? < 1203281310 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, I guess so. < 1203281316 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a PSOX usage tutorial anywhere? < 1203281318 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With brainfuck. < 1203281330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yq, there are examples, and the spec < 1203281343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one part of the spec is out-of-date, holdon < 1203281350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucktorial < 1203281382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yq: Nope. < 1203281393 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How are they unique theoretically < 1203281424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc foo {} {return 1} returns 1 to the caller; proc bar {} {puts 1} outputs one. < 1203281445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if {[foo]} is therefore like if {1}. . . < 1203281471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if {[bar]} is more like if {puts 1}; testing if puts actually outputs without an error. < 1203281524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it's the difference between printf() and return in C. ;) < 1203281535 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Duhhh. I'm saying it SHOULDN'T be like that. < 1203281548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell *not*? < 1203281557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1203281562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell shouldn't it be like that? < 1203281564 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: < 1203281575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see a GUI domain soon < 1203281581 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc bar {} {puts 1}; if {[bar]} ;# this is 'if {1}...' < 1203281585 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like this in shell < 1203281592 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it makes sense when the language is like a shell < 1203281596 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tcl is, essentially. < 1203281598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it's not. < 1203281599 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the string focus < 1203281639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you fucking mad? < 1203281681 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host91-85-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203281711 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Perhaps; but saying that helps little. < 1203281724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[puts 1] is just the same as [puts stderr 1]. < 1203281746 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am aware what the actual semantics are. < 1203281752 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am arguing theoretically, what would be better. < 1203281757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/stderr/stdout/ < 1203281765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if you're making a shell vaguely like Tcl. < 1203281776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Tcl's not shell. < 1203281789 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm just saying I can't see how it wouldn't be nicer. < 1203281807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've obviously never had a function *want to output*. < 1203281853 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhm, if I have a nested expression I don't expect side-effects to creep out of it relying on evaluation order, no. < 1203281866 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put the first action, then the second. Then my nested ones. < 1203281867 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one < 1203281882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you also happen to fail to notice that Tcl is imperative as fuck? < 1203281970 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May be so. But in nested expressions, that's just ugly style. < 1203281987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203281998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you support the same behavior in C? < 1203282274 0 :Yq!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :{ < 1203282278 0 :{!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :} < 1203282327 0 :}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No < 1203282337 0 :}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should seperate side-effecting seperations and not nest them oddly. < 1203282344 0 :}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else is obfuscation. < 1203282360 0 :}!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1203282365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203282369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nick collision? < 1203282398 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203282408 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :[ < 1203282417 0 :[!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1203282418 0 :[!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :] < 1203282419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ehird < 1203282420 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1203282425 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. :P < 1203282426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} had a nick collision? < 1203282429 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah < 1203282431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whois } < 1203282434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :} < 1203282439 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: it's forbidden < 1203282439 0 :}!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1203282447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- If you do not change within one minute, you will be disconnected < 1203282456 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1203282461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :I < 1203282463 0 :I!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1203282464 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forbidden < 1203282483 0 :]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_ < 1203282489 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1203282491 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be so awesome < 1203282492 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a nick. < 1203282496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick We /me are the bork! < 1203282515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_, is that forbidden or something? < 1203282526 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it's allowed. I am asking in #freenode. < 1203282530 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203282530 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine I will be denied < 1203282533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, any chance of working on the GUI domain now? < 1203282545 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Bah, pygame is a lot of wurk :P < 1203282552 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203282553 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203282560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So use something simpler if you want < 1203282566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the one making it, not me < 1203282587 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I know.. I know. < 1203282593 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's dependant on you. < 1203282598 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The model requires not having to switch FDs to be nice. < 1203282630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I can fit in not switching FDs.. < 1203282703 0 :_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :^ < 1203282708 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1203282710 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Easy < 1203282716 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add an extra parameter to the functions < 1203282720 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: just add some more, for backwards-compat < 1203282740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't really room to add functions < 1203282758 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhm < 1203282759 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain? < 1203282779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 (num-of-bytes-to-take) 0x0A < 1203282784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's input < 1203282793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where in there is there room to fit something else? < 1203282800 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Another domain? < 1203282802 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTERNATIVELY < 1203282808 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 (fd) (num-of-bytes) 0x0A < 1203282811 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicest solution < 1203282819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would break compatibility.. < 1203282825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what about output? < 1203282846 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Tell me exactly how many PSOX programs are there, mr Sgeo? < 1203282853 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 3? Maybe even 4? < 1203282858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol true < 1203282859 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could you possibly stop them working! < 1203282869 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They run whole ENTERPRISES! < 1203282872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203282880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about output though? < 1203282885 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it right now? < 1203282904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printing a character outputs that character unless it's 0x00, which is escape < 1203282907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to function < 1203282915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0x00 0x00 escapes the next character < 1203282944 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can stay the same. What is the actual function for outputting, though, in PSOX? < 1203282949 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that gets an extra FD peramater < 1203282957 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you can still keep the sometimes-useful 'current FD' model -- < 1203282958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is outputting < 1203282968 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, but you have FDs. < 1203282971 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you output to the current FD? < 1203282986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly as I said < 1203282986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x00 char < 1203283005 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see. < 1203283006 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. That's no one-letter nick. < 1203283012 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then: < 1203283027 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have, at the base, functions which take an fd, and the rest of the parameters. < 1203283031 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes a special output one. < 1203283031 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN, < 1203283034 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On top of that, < 1203283041 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you layer on a 'current FD' system < 1203283042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203283052 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically all the functions, sans FD parameters, and a 'change FD'/'get FD' functions < 1203283055 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, < 1203283067 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use your model of output - i.e. JUST OUTPUT the character! - to use the implicit-FD versions. < 1203283069 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplel. < 1203283094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1203283140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be just simpler for a GUI client to just switch FDs every two seconds? < 1203283148 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1203283154 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be far harder to code with. < 1203283160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe special input/output functions in the system domain? < 1203283161 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, this model of output/input is used by C and similar < 1203283164 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fputc, and putc. < 1203283166 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fprintf, and printf. < 1203283167 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1203283173 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fgetc, and getc, ...) < 1203283237 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, backtick is already taken < 1203283286 0 :^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :s < 1203283290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s, would input/output functions in the System domain be ok? < 1203283290 0 :s!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :a < 1203283305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, do you have ehird on highlight? < 1203283308 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1203283311 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway sgeo: < 1203283312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203283319 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some simple questions to help me understand < 1203283336 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the current model of IO accomplished? How do I select an FD, input, output, etc. < 1203283341 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer that, and I'll explain my suggestion. < 1203283372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x02 0x10 f 0x0A sets the current outfile FD < 1203283381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x02 0x11 f 0x0A sets the current infile FD < 1203283416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 4 builtin FD numbers: 0x00 is the current outfile FD, 0x01 is the current infile FD, 0x02 is stdout, 0x03 is stdin < 1203283445 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1203283448 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after that. < 1203283452 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do stuff with them? < 1203283466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already described input and output < 1203283485 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it again, I don't grasp it yet. < 1203283512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output is either just outputting the character if it's not 0x00 < 1203283522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just output 0x00 0x00 first to escape the next char < 1203283537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input is 0x00 0x01 (num-of-bytes) 0x0A < 1203283567 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Specify what 0x01 and 0x02 are in english < 1203283580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Domain specifiers < 1203283589 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes... < 1203283590 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What domains. < 1203283599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 is the input pseudodomain < 1203283613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x02 is the System domain < 1203283613 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define `pseudodomain' < 1203283636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudodomain because 0x01 doesn't have functions like a normal domain. The num-of-bytes pretends to be the function name, but it isn't < 1203283651 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1203283664 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my idea is quite radical then. < 1203283666 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's very simple.. < 1203283680 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 will no longer be the input pseudodomain. It will be the 'IO domain'. < 1203283682 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With me so far? < 1203283686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203283692 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and, < 1203283699 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be a function in it for input. < 1203283704 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, something like: < 1203283723 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x00 (num-of-bytes) 0x0A < 1203283723 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not exact synatx, maybe. But you get the idea?) < 1203283741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the idea, but it's an extra byte of overhead :/ < 1203283754 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: With me? < 1203283754 0 :a!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1203283758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203283759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203283763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ping < 1203283767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203283768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1203283769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lagged. < 1203283779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have a suggestion re: byte of overhead < 1203283807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the PSOX server has nothing to send, and a character is requested, it sends off a character from $FD. (Don't think about this too much. I'll explain it once I get my concepts down.) < 1203283825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1203283848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the PSOX server doesn't know when a character is requested < 1203283857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It can, though, quite easily. < 1203283865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might give an example, but that's not the point.. < 1203283870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is the idea I am explaining. < 1203283878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can see the logical outcome: < 1203283886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x01 (char) 0x0A < 1203283895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Please ignore that these are very verbose ways to do IO, I will fix that later..) < 1203283897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, select.select() doesn't work on Windows last time I checked docs < 1203283900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: With me so far? < 1203283908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't. think about it. too much!) < 1203283930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203283955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK, now what I propose < 1203283968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would look like this, in the core: < 1203283971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x00 (fd) (num-of-bytes) 0x0A < 1203283979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x01 (fd) (char) 0x0A < 1203283988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is obviously not an ideal interface for the programmer. < 1203283994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But it's a solid base for IO. < 1203284000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with that, we can build upon it: < 1203284013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x02 (fd) 0x0A ;; change fd < 1203284020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x03 0x0A ;; get fd (not required) < 1203284032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x04 (num-of-bytes) 0x0A ;; no need for fd param -- works on current fd < 1203284039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x05 (char) 0x0A ;; ditto < 1203284056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, with all of this we have an IO system more powerful than PSOXs. But it's still not that convenient! < 1203284065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what we can do.. is this: < 1203284071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know your current stuff for output? < 1203284073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. just output it < 1203284076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a possible escape? < 1203284079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203284085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that ends up using "0x00 0x01 0x05 (char) 0x0A" < 1203284087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just sugar. < 1203284115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input thing is valid, and maybe you can check for input, or maybe you can have a special other magic sugar -- like "0x01 bytes", and escape that... You already have one already. But, this isn't such a major problem. < 1203284126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that it would make e.g. the GUI lib *very nice* to use < 1203284138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also lets you unify the infile/outfile mess thing < 1203284199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'm willing to change around the whole current structure, but that stuff could go in a custom domain.. < 1203284213 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203284222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And why not? < 1203284227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no programs to speak of. < 1203284232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is more elegant, and it's what every other language uses. < 1203284241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also just as convenient if you take into account my sugar ideas.. < 1203284257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even more convenient, with my 0x01 sugar. (Shorter programs, 0x01 is easy to make in BF) < 1203284278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, when you start doing things like e.g. heavy file IO < 1203284279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is not that uncommon I must add!) < 1203284284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be a lot nicer < 1203284287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shorter < 1203284336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the thing with the 0x01 sugar is that how do we make sure it gets to the server before the client requests it? < 1203284351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason 0x0A is at the end of every function is to make sure the server gets it < 1203284396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Simple < 1203284403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 only reads one byte < 1203284408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax: < 1203284408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x?? < 1203284411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'read ?? bytes.' < 1203284432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose I have a BF interpreter that only sends out at a 0x0A < 1203284436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need an ending marker because it's not variadic. < 1203284437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have this BF program: < 1203284438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can escape it like this: < 1203284438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x01 < 1203284440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now of course the question 'how do you input one byte??' < 1203284445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, by 0x01 0x00. < 1203284448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.., < 1203284452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you never actually want to read 0 chars. < 1203284454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens? < 1203284460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, let's see < 1203284464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 0x01 0x01 < 1203284469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then waits < 1203284474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1203284476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1203284476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the BF interpreter never sends it to the server < 1203284482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In my semantics if you look < 1203284484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually escapes 0x01 0x01 < 1203284485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's no 0x0A to flush it < 1203284490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203284491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1203284493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no interp does that < 1203284496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sane one < 1203284504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1203284505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember GregorR being worried about oit < 1203284506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1203284518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fine < 1203284518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this: < 1203284518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x?? 0x0A < 1203284518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Actually, that's good < 1203284518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because: < 1203284519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x0A < 1203284537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means just a literal \1 < 1203284537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait < 1203284537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1203284537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IGNORE THAT < 1203284537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203284540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK: < 1203284546 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-202-40.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203284551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x?? 0x0A < 1203284552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a macro for < 1203284569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x05 0x?? 0x0A < 1203284569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: < 1203284569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x01 0x0A < 1203284569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a literal \1 < 1203284574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF you want to actually read one char: < 1203284577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x00 0x0A < 1203284607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, here's a "read one char" BF program: < 1203284622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.-.+++++++++., < 1203284626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "cat one char": < 1203284628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.-.+++++++++.,. < 1203284630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But obviously < 1203284641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1203284641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You get an EOF indicator, right? < 1203284641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Then this: < 1203284657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.-.+++++++++.,,. < 1203284657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work if it's 0x00, though.. < 1203284664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EOF Indicator, Num-of-bytes-not-EOF, bytes, padding < 1203284680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is simple enough to fix: < 1203284685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.-.+++++++++.,,>.+.+++.<.>++++++++++. < 1203284688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what currently happens when you request a fixed number < 1203284692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's a "read one char, output": < 1203284697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203284700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you just add more ,s < 1203284700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203284705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you get the basic idea. < 1203284708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would say: that's nice and short! < 1203284718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it allows for my cleaner semantics < 1203284727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would say it's a good thing < 1203284727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Opinions? < 1203284733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01 0x?? 0x0A is only one byte less than 0x00 0x01 0x?? 0x0A < 1203284743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it just frees up domain 0x01 < 1203284745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1203284767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, well it might be only one byte less, but the benefits that come with it are nice, very nice! < 1203284777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't really free up domain 0x01. < 1203284781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the IO domain in my semantics, remember? < 1203284794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, frees up 0x01 for your IO domain is what I meant < 1203284799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1203284812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it's cleaner. And it's the most widely used model of IO - C, etc. use it < 1203284828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, when you do heavy file I/O (or, in my case, heavy widget-FD I/O) it makes programs a lot nicer, I think < 1203284905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you'd be opposed to making input 0x00 0x01 fd num-of-bytes 0x0A? < 1203284934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and output 0x00 0x00 fd char ? < 1203284959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of course... domains are the best way to organize this. < 1203284965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, a domain allows for expansion of IO capabilities. < 1203284974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, an 'isEOF' function or something. < 1203284985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, input gives an EOF indicator < 1203285020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could make a custom IO domain.. < 1203285026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know it does. < 1203285027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an example < 1203285033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you stop taking every example I give literally? < 1203285042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a custom IO domain means you have two models for IO, neither of which is integrated < 1203285049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ugly, and so is the whole 'pseudodomain' idea. < 1203285185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203285190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203285351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1203285360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a major change :/ < 1203285365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen IO < 1203285367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_textgen IO < 1203285371 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203285402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203285405 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203285407 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203285415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's the problem with that? < 1203285417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is going to die? < 1203285449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't bf_txtgen working? < 1203285451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1203285455 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 Sgeo: bf_txtgen < 1203285457 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 Sgeo: ps < 1203285528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen it does just slowly < 1203285555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too slowly. Is there an online alternative? < 1203285643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making your changes would not be easy < 1203285669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there's a java alternative. < 1203285672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and yes it would. < 1203285675 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :38 +++++++++[>++++++++>>><<<<-]>+.++++++. [67] < 1203285680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a few python files < 1203285681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1203285840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often would apps need to do I/O to arbitrary FDs? < 1203285852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Quite often.. < 1203285858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When using multiple files when using the gui toolkit ... < 1203285863 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :133 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>++><<<<-]>.>----.>++.<<-----.>-----.<+.>++++.>.<<+++++.>++.--.+.>.<-.-------.<+++++.++++++++.>.<++. [913] < 1203285865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides they still have the short interface. < 1203285877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't those cases be covered with a custom domain? < 1203285997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, but that's ugly. < 1203286002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, my way has no downsides. < 1203286037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your way could go in PSOX 1.1? < 1203286107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why not 1.0? < 1203286110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no programs to speak of. < 1203286123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current PSOX Server doesn't count as a program < 1203286124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203286145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It wouldn't require many changes.. < 1203286150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme svn access and I'll branch off and do it < 1203286154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203286164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you have an Assembla account? < 1203286167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1203286168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203286174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get one < 1203286181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203286195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203286197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, later ;) < 1203286243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why later? < 1203286336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite busy -- you'll see < 1203286357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy with PSOX, or with something else? < 1203286362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something else < 1203286390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, give me your email address, and I'll invite you < 1203286506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1203286511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penguinofthegods@gmail.com < 1203286537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you did have an Assembla account.. < 1203286542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i < 1203286543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203286573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.assembla.com/user/best_profile/dxUzeMKqWr25QeaaeP0Qfc < 1203286658 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1203286751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh yes < 1203286751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Blink < 1203286781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blink? < 1203286801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quite old project of mine < 1203286806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a CMS built on Rails, minimal < 1203286808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed to run my site < 1203286813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was based on blocks and views.. < 1203286825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a block is a hunk of content, like a page or blog post or a picture with text or anything < 1203286834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a view specified how they were displayed, and could be controlled with ruby code < 1203286844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could have parent views and stuff < 1203286854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could have a 'site' view which displayed the menu and header and footer < 1203286860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a 'blog' view which had that as the parent < 1203286869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some small ruby code to tell it what blocks to dispaly and how. < 1203286884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never got far < 1203286939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds interesting.. why didn't it get far? < 1203286982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1. Rails sucks 2. I am really terrible at keeping projects going < 1203287048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But basically the same idea has carried throughout various languages and mindsets and I still plan to make somthing like it for my site. < 1203287055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the timeline is: < 1203287065 0 :lispy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203287077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blink, , Alchemy, various Alchemys (Alchemii?), , < 1203287177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What CMSs are there for Python? < 1203287202 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203287475 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203287495 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203287519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re timotiis hi oerjan < 1203287547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1203287604 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallo < 1203287643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i changed the topic back when lispy arrived and didn't know what we were - thought it might be an idea to tell it in the topic :) < 1203287654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no good ones < 1203287658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, cmses full stop suck < 1203287665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are either bloated or restricted. < 1203287751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whachu working on? < 1203287812 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So FALSE isn't considered esoteric anymore? < 1203287835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMeph: uhm < 1203287839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when < 1203287887 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see it in EgoBot's list, there. < 1203287970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't interpret all languages.. < 1203287982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list < 1203288007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And last I checked, EgoBot wasn't PSOX enabled < 1203288114 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so MoinMoin is a wiki engine, that's used for CMS. I think that says more about CMS tech than anything else. < 1203288238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moinmoin sucks < 1203288342 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1203289097 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203289109 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rice toes. < 1203289323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tice roes. < 1203290380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :göa < 1203290405 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203290445 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203291133 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203291150 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's a göa? < 1203291264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nohird < 1203291400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tried googling it but had no success < 1203291415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even limiting to swedish pages < 1203291431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is google doesn't distinguish it from "goa" properly < 1203291495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah exact match is better < 1203291529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah the top hits seem misspellings of "göra" < 1203291619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it is not an actual word < 1203291628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think.- < 1203291634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _does_ seem like it could be cognate to the norwegian "gjø" < 1203291659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig deeper. < 1203291750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means feeding or dogs barking < 1203291964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION randomly asks if it's a swear word < 1203291982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you that one is not easy to find either < 1203292011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am tending towards believing "göa" is at best a deliberate misspelling < 1203292014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the context < 1203292086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is 'gora' of any relation to Agore? :p < 1203292090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora, even. < 1203292118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful. it means to do or make < 1203292146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian "gjøre" < 1203292356 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora is named after the Agora, isn't it? < 1203292375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should think so < 1203292403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203292502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually there is a subtle difference between norwegian and swedish there - norwegian rarely uses it to mean "make", only "do") < 1203292629 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any relation to the Spanish word "hacer"? < 1203292641 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means to do or make. < 1203292658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from latin facere < 1203292675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure but i _think_ latin f can correspond to germanic g < 1203292685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via indoeuropean gh < 1203292692 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1203292704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1203292720 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I also remember f corresponding to h somewhere... oh, right here. < 1203292720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia says facere is cognate to "do", rather < 1203292735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin f -> spanish h, yes < 1203292744 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "do" comes from the word "facere"? < 1203292750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dh -> f in latin, d in germanic < 1203292764 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My. < 1203292815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some strange unicode i cannot read on that proto-indoeuropean in http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/facio#Latin < 1203292824 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now don't tell me the English word "chase" comes from "fugare". < 1203292864 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proto-Indo-European notation is ridiculous. :-P < 1203292875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay, göa just sounded pretty. < 1203292891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to understand, i've been drawing eer diagrams for hours. < 1203292897 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I start referring to Agora as Agöra? < 1203292908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the buggiest drawing program in the world < 1203292912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually "chase" is from latin "captare", it says < 1203292947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if there's a linux port for paint... i miss paint... < 1203292961 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be slightly surprised if the word "capture" didn't come from the same word. < 1203292966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1203293012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they're both probably derived from capere < 1203293038 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "capital" and "cabeza" both come from the same Latin word, I'd expect. < 1203293053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital is from caput, i think < 1203293057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := head < 1203293185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cognate with head, more or less < 1203293202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old English h.afod, from Proto-Germanic *khaubuthan, from Proto-Indo-European *kauput- (..head, bowl..). Cognate with German Haupt, Dutch hoofd, Swedish huvud; the Indo-European root is also the source of Latin caput." < 1203293251 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1203293276 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h.afod from *khaubuthan? < 1203293312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that . is e with a bar btw < 1203293352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indo-european k -> germanic h is pretty basic < 1203293386 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you still have the fod from buthan. < 1203293389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is p -> f < 1203293410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how the proto-germanic fits in between < 1203293434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and t -> th which must have been weakened afterwards < 1203293470 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, I guess. < 1203293482 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "an" on the end was just a passing fad, then. :-P < 1203293491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm's_law < 1203293500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just an inflection yeah < 1203293633 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203293654 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203293923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be an entire class of nouns getting vowel+n endings in germanic, in norwegian the ending turns into -e, sometimes called "weak" nouns < 1203293933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german has something of the same, though not in this word (e.g. Name, with occasional -n) < 1203293933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's "hode" in norwegian) < 1203293968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äöo. yuao. ööai. {ns} < 1203294040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some norwegian dialects inflect weak nouns rather differently from strong ones) < 1203294116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the case in swedish too i think, e.g. plural -or vs. -ar < 1203294144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mother is a weak noun. < 1203294877 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203295029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! the th -> d is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verner%27s_law < 1203295056 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistics? Here? < 1203295065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1203295066 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, this is all your fault :o < 1203295094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mostly mine < 1203295100 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course! #linguistics doesn't exist--wait, actually, it's much bigger than this channel. < 1203295126 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203295199 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has almost a long novemnonagintilliard people in it. < 1203295235 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is 10^597. < 1203295265 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a whole lot of people. < 1203295292 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203295542 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as much as a long centillion, though. < 1203295597 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less a long nongennovemnonagintilliard. < 1203295619 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity. Plus one. < 1203295695 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203295719 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gasp. < 1203295837 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a fun word: milliatillion. < 1203295854 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^3003. < 1203295859 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203295884 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really, above 10^100, things start to get useless. < 1203295903 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above that, it's mostly silly probabilities and theoretical mathematics. < 1203295922 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203296041 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: graham's < 1203296060 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number, the biggest important number. < 1203296084 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203296087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi calamari < 1203296098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you been keeping up with PSOX? < 1203296104 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry < 1203296110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One word: wget.b < 1203296122 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big? < 1203296130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b < 1203296130 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203296144 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203296146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually fairly trivial with Sgeo's SVN; it has an HTTP domain. < 1203296154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(binding HTTP to a file descriptor) < 1203296159 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graham's number isn't very important. < 1203296176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the largest important number. < 1203296178 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: the real value is closer to 6, apparently. < 1203296178 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any bigger numbers that have any importance at all? < 1203296189 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at least 11 and probably bigger. < 1203296219 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's bigger than 11, it shouldn't be too far from Graham's number. < 1203296234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, Graham's number is too large to be written in scientific notation. < 1203296314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did you have any trouble writing wget.b? If so, what? < 1203296315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there seems to be a typo in the Verner article, th -> d should be th -> dh < 1203296317 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll write a program to list out the name of a number. < 1203296360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The cat bit was slightly difficult, actually. < 1203296375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even that wasn't too hard, since PSOX has decent debugging facilities. < 1203296383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i? < 1203296391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; that was really helpful. < 1203296393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203296595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was basically made while trying to chase down a bug which turned out to be a * where there shouldn't have been a * < 1203296673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing stupid about psox < 1203296676 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is its safety stuff.. < 1203296678 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the os provides that stuff alread < 1203296679 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1203296717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty cool < 1203296736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, PSOX in general, or wget.b, or what? < 1203296740 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1203296746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203296757 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it require a special interpreter? < 1203296774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yes, svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk < 1203296794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not a BF interpreter itself < 1203296798 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so all the existing esolang interpreters/compilers will need to be redone to support psox? < 1203296809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes between a standard interpreter and stdio < 1203296812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, not at all < 1203296824 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1203296826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misunderstood your question, is all < 1203296835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: will you remove the safety stuff? honestly, my os is very good at that and its going to be a pain coding the domains i want to with it < 1203296846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, it's going to be a pain to do: < 1203296855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "nogui" in G.SAFETYLIST: < 1203296861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MY_VERSION = 0 < 1203296863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else: < 1203296866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MY_VERSION = 1 < 1203296869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pain? < 1203296882 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the whole idea is a pain < 1203296884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean ffi? If ffi, just make the domain require ffi as a safety option < 1203296908 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the whole idea is a pain < 1203296916 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security? < 1203296917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it a pain? < 1203296923 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. safety < 1203296927 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1203296936 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it is half-assed disabling of certain functions in psox. < 1203296941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G=g64, where g1 = 3^^^^3, and gn = 3^(gn-1)3. . . < 1203296943 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can already be done from within the os < 1203296947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy hell, that's big. < 1203296951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, on the command line, if for example, I don't want PSOX to go online, I can give the commandline option -s nonet < 1203296957 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or you could tell your os. < 1203296967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if I want to allow it to go outside the sandbox, I can give -s fullfileio < 1203296979 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: if i removed the safety right now, how many people do you think will notice? < 1203296980 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203296985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, I will < 1203297020 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... because you like the feature; not because of it being any good < 1203297034 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that if you don't want certain functions, you could run it sandboxed or as a less privileged user < 1203297062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what's your opinion on the safety debate? < 1203297068 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: exactly. < 1203297082 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for windows, that wouldn't work very well :) < 1203297083 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively... if you don't want to do that... just remove the import from the code! seriously. < 1203297088 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: see what i just said < 1203297090 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1203297096 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't run external code without reading it < 1203297098 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're paranoid like that < 1203297103 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just like downloading and running a perl script!! < 1203297112 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about as readable too. < 1203297145 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: did you help write PSOX? < 1203297160 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: no, but i have svn access since a few seconds ago < 1203297168 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have sat by and complained since forever < 1203297168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ehird helped shape some parts, and is now trying to redo how I/O is done < 1203297177 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and write a gui domain < 1203297178 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ffi domain < 1203297181 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a domain domain < 1203297182 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: just seems like you're kinda hostile towards it ..hehe < 1203297190 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: just that feature. :-) < 1203297206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ehird`_ has been less hostile towards it since he pointed out that most of the bitwise stuff could be removed < 1203297214 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it? < 1203297219 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yes. < 1203297221 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203297223 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean stuff. < 1203297228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ehird`_ originally became hostile when some stuff he suggested was removed (TDATA (the "ANY" type)) < 1203297232 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean sure < 1203297237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, boolean, not bitwise < 1203297238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mybad < 1203297239 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nah < 1203297240 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was before that < 1203297241 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203297241 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203297245 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise is hard for bf tho.. and/or/xor < 1203297252 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not impossible < 1203297256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I meant removed boolean < 1203297273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-utils.txt < 1203297307 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can i just remove the safety stuff and we'll see who exactly is going to write a brainfuck virus and regular people who won't read the code will download it, psox, an interpreter, and blindly run it? < 1203297357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, I don't see why you're so violently opposed to the safety stuff < 1203297388 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's crap pointless and will make writing stuff harder for no reason < 1203297406 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite fine with the safety stuff as long as there's some switch to disable it. < 1203297422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_, there's really nothing to disable < 1203297430 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: nobody will use it < 1203297431 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the safety stuff, then? < 1203297441 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iit's just pointless and doesn't help devs < 1203297444 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1203297456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_, putting -s nonet to disable internet acces, or -s fullfileio to not force file I/O to be in a sandbox < 1203297483 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... which is of course useless as your os can do it anyway < 1203297486 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just edit the psox code < 1203297487 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are these options defined by the libraries, or are they hardcoded into the executable? < 1203297494 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File I/O is in a sandbox by default? < 1203297496 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: libraries have to go around them... < 1203297497 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: yep < 1203297499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, defined by the libraries < 1203297502 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'normal users' aren't going to use psox anyway < 1203297507 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people who will use psox < 1203297510 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN READ BRAINFUCK CODE!! < 1203297520 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is JUST LIKE downloading a Perl program, can't you see that Sgeo? < 1203297524 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even Java! < 1203297531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said I can read Brainfuck code written by others? < 1203297533 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come they don't have any need for it; but PSOX does? < 1203297541 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And WHO IS GOING TO WRITE A BRAINFUCK&PSOX VIRUS? < 1203297542 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so if I'm writing my own library calamari::blah .. it could add -s abcd to do something? < 1203297549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yes < 1203297553 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you see...? < 1203297557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203297560 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there other safeties that are enabled by default? < 1203297564 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that seems fine to me.. *shrug* < 1203297580 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't you see, though? I honestly don't see how you don't get what I'm saying < 1203297593 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, it seems that there is indeed something to disable. < 1203297606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: if I'm understanding what he is saying.. you don't even need to worry about the safety stuff if you don't care < 1203297620 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: you most certainly do < 1203297644 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: why? if my calamari:: library doesn't want to respect -s nonet, it would just ignore it < 1203297662 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ahh but it needs to respect -s nocalamarilibrary < 1203297668 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What calamari said < 1203297673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also if i want stuff included in the main psox distro < 1203297674 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to < 1203297691 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Name one use case for the safety, and tell me how it is different from just running a Perl script? < 1203297700 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, tell me who will write a PSOX virus. < 1203297708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, someone who hated me < 1203297714 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203297718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other PSOX fanatic who is unable to read BF code < 1203297719 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: if you don't like the standard library, make one without the safety stuff.. problem solved? < 1203297719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203297730 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU SGEO!! Wait.. I know... I'll write a PSOX virus! < 1203297734 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! < 1203297739 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203297749 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's psox? < 1203297762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX < 1203297772 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, what if I can't read Perl? < 1203297773 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1203297775 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: it's an esolang wrapper that extends its functionality < 1203297790 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystem functions etc? < 1203297793 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1203297797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_, eventually, yes < 1203297806 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory management? < 1203297809 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Here are some scenarios: < 1203297812 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. I don't know Perl < 1203297813 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wraps around stdin and stdout? < 1203297815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_, currently, there are only math utilities and HTTP < 1203297815 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. I download a Perl script < 1203297816 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. I run it < 1203297818 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- < 1203297823 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. I don't know Brainfuck. < 1203297826 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http??? lol. nice... < 1203297828 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. But I have a brainfuck interpreter and PSOX! < 1203297835 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. And I like downloading PSOX programs! < 1203297840 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. And someone has written a PSOX virus! < 1203297843 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. And I download it and run it! < 1203297860 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The Perl script is 5 times more likely to be a virus; PSOX just does not have the need for these features. < 1203297892 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: I like the idea that my code will have the ability to read command line options < 1203297909 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Sure. That's great and all. I'm just highlighting a problem. < 1203297912 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why don't you simply map the functions of a high level language? like python... < 1203297926 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PSOX will offer normal command-line argument handling, presumably. < 1203297928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, thing is, there is a virtual command line that a PSOX client can read (-c fakecommandline) < 1203297947 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit ugly, but I don't know how to do it better < 1203297954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b uses it < 1203297972 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that sounds fine.. sh/bash do it that way < 1203298010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, but that weighs in in ehird`_'s favor in the debate, so -s isn't needed for that sort of functionality < 1203298018 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do -c -s nogui < 1203298042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think that would leave the virtual command line blank actually < 1203298046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it works < 1203298050 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1203298057 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c "-s nonet" < 1203298074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c would generally be used for the client to read < 1203298083 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the program would have to handle it < 1203298090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s is instructions to the libraries usually regarding what to allow and not to allow < 1203298091 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than PSOX < 1203298101 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1203298128 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how about this? -s HTTP=no < 1203298135 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd disable HTTP:: < 1203298152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I'm not sure how I'd go about coding that < 1203298163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that does make sense < 1203298168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't HTTP definied in its own file? < 1203298173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how optionparser works < 1203298181 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1203298185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the safety stuff could be stored in a dictionary I guess < 1203298195 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I.. haven't really studied perl.. just python < 1203298215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference PSOX interpreter is Python < 1203298219 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203298221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is in Python < 1203298221 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just loading&unloading domains < 1203298221 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the libraries wouldn't have to deal with safety at all < 1203298224 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fully reasonable < 1203298227 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its nothing to do with safety < 1203298233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yes they would < 1203298233 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh cool < 1203298251 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no they woulen't < 1203298251 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can help you then.. I've done a lot with python parsing < 1203298259 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203298261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, currently, PSOX.py uses regex < 1203298262 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that feature is trivial < 1203298280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/impl/PSOX.py < 1203298319 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203298357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, you just removed safety from the trunk < 1203298361 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION smirks < 1203298367 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering how long it would take you to notice. < 1203298481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_ broke PSOX < 1203298486 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203298487 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1203298489 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1203298496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY_VERSION is required < 1203298552 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed it < 1203298582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, no you didn't < 1203298586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fixed it in one place < 1203298591 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the rest were already fixed < 1203298591 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1203298594 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have MY_VERSION < 1203298605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc_exampledomain? < 1203298611 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203298613 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203298624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one of the system domain functions looks at G.SAFETYLIST < 1203298627 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okies < 1203298629 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll fix too :P < 1203298643 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203298643 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203298645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, going to fix the specs too? < 1203298647 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's specifically safety-related < 1203298652 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i'll comment it out and reserve it for use < 1203298673 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tyes < 1203298689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, pikhq, do either of you find it objectionable that ehird`_ just unilaterally made a change without my permission? < 1203298705 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1203298708 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think anyone noticed < 1203298710 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody used it. < 1203298761 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, all fixed and spec updated. < 1203298820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, python PSOX.py python testcustdomain.py isn't working < 1203298836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you still importing SAFETYLIST? < 1203298840 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1203298843 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK i fixed that < 1203298845 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe in PSOX.py < 1203298846 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1203298854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not in PSOX.py < 1203298859 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203298860 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then time to hunt < 1203298893 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203298894 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exampledomain < 1203298897 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks grep(1) < 1203298932 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be ok now < 1203298939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could have assigned a blank list to G.SAFETYLIST < 1203298972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works now < 1203298975 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dunno why.. but I gues I had to see something like wget before I woke up and got interested :) < 1203298994 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not completely thrilled by the impl.. seems like it could be simpler < 1203299007 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it could be < 1203299012 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could practically golf it < 1203299036 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you don't mind.. I may fool around with a fork and see what comes of it < 1203299040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, thank pikhq for wget.b < 1203299054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't mind < 1203299063 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you like it, could merge it < 1203299069 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: please don't add safety... i can't be bothered to have another debate < 1203299070 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203299078 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: lol.. < 1203299090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, we really haven't finished our debate, you unilaterally removed safety < 1203299092 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you agreed with what I had to say about it I think < 1203299101 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Would a C psox be a good idea? < 1203299117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_, not if it would be difficult to implement domains < 1203299118 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as the main impl. Justification: < 1203299121 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, no. < 1203299125 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can embed Python and stuff. < 1203299125 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: C isn't good at dynamically importing stuff, is it? < 1203299131 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: dlopen < 1203299137 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen? < 1203299139 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen. < 1203299145 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But I mean, the justification < 1203299149 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that C has the best library support < 1203299152 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the FFI would be the richest < 1203299168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'd tie it down to linux only < 1203299179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or posix or whatever < 1203299181 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1203299181 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203299184 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen is on windows to < 1203299186 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1203299204 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be suggesting that all os's have the same libraries < 1203299204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Linux only is not an option. I complicated retrieving input so PSOX would work with Windows < 1203299217 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not read.. < 1203299229 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I assume Sgeo isn't actively planning to support VMS. < 1203299237 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I just said.. < 1203299243 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen is on windows < 1203299259 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you write a 3-line wrapper for it < 1203299260 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: can you give a dhopen example? I am not familiar with it < 1203299267 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen, sorry < 1203299268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you embed C into Python? < 1203299268 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: eh, google... not off the top of my head < 1203299276 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, that's not quite the point. < 1203299283 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, you can't without a lot of horrid pain. < 1203299309 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: the advantage of python is that it is cross platform with a standard set of libraries < 1203299317 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is pretty standard. < 1203299323 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c has more libraries, too. < 1203299330 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you overestimate how complex psox is... < 1203299336 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many libraries it'd need to use < 1203299340 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s is.. but besides the std lib, nothing else is standard < 1203299349 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s->c < 1203299372 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd pretty much have to install cygwin to use it < 1203299390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One objection to a C interp as ref is that I don't know C < 1203299457 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203299457 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they < 1203299458 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't. < 1203299459 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203299462 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1203299474 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can write it as libc with a few wrappers for dlopen < 1203299475 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1203299480 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+python stuff, if wanted < 1203299508 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please provide a simple example, even if it's pseudocode < 1203299532 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: of what. < 1203299545 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1203299552 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopen("foo.so", flag); < 1203299554 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1203299560 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open_wrap("foo"); < 1203299565 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will call the win32api on windows < 1203299570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1203299571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.so < 1203299579 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's foo.dll < 1203299583 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows < 1203299605 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no guarantee that foo.so and foo.dll are even compatible < 1203299611 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ... < 1203299613 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for psox domains < 1203299616 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux < 1203299618 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and posix < 1203299621 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will be compiled to .so < 1203299622 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows < 1203299623 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.dll < 1203299627 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the wrapper will handle it < 1203299631 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is hard to understand about this? < 1203307411 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203307411 0 :clog!i=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203307415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi clog < 1203307434 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is more cohesive < 1203307450 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all file I/O can go into a domain < 1203307466 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than be a PSOX core function < 1203307473 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203307506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So both you and ehird want the same thing? < 1203307516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: Shoving I/O into a domain? < 1203307522 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for example if you imported a domain dedicated to input to 0x01, then you'd say 0x01 "text" 0x00 .. something like that < 1203307571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'd probably be more of an i/o domain, with file handling, etc < 1203307585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why these redesigns now when PSOX is so close to completion of 1.0? < 1203307590 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIXED < 1203307601 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm not saying you should redesign anything < 1203307630 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll implement it separately.. and then we can get together and see what we think of it < 1203307647 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way if it doesn't work out, you haven't lost a thing < 1203307653 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound ok? < 1203307714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but it seems like a lot of effort on your part for something that IMO isn't really needed < 1203307742 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand < 1203307840 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 6am here so i am going to sleep. i'll check it thoroughly tomorrow. calamari use this for reading from the table: >[>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[->+<]<[->+<]<[->+<]>-]>>>[-]<[->+<]<[[-<+>]<<<[->>>>+<<<<]>>-]<< i think it's ok. but maybe it's not... < 1203307845 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight everyone. < 1203307857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night Tritonio_ < 1203308511 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: ok thanks.. < 1203308623 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: dunno if you will see this, but I never used the reading code < 1203308637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was examining the values directly from BF memory < 1203309079 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: TDATA is mentioned in psox-types.txt then never defined < 1203309125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh right, that's old < 1203309201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY old < 1203309214 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-types.txt < 1203309218 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says it's 2 days old < 1203309242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nov. 8, 2007 old < 1203309258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revision 10 old < 1203309266 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is STRINGNL needed for? I see the description, but why wouldn't a STRING work? < 1203309289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A STRING would work, but it's a bit of overhead to have a 0x00 right at the end before the 0x0A < 1203309308 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, does every command have to end with 0x0A? < 1203309374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would, since you read lines only < 1203309483 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no floating point? < 1203309487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is for any esolang interpreters that only write out on a newline < 1203309491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No floating point < 1203309606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, just learned something about python.. j gives you imaginary numbers.. so a=1j, a+=1 gives a=(1+1j) < 1203309635 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j=sqrt(1) < 1203309639 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err -1 < 1203309704 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bytes is an FNUM? < 1203309785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNUM(1) is 1 byte, FNUM(2) is two bytes, etc < 1203310163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox_net.txt does this look good so far? < 1203310264 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? < 1203310270 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda tired now < 1203310542 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you guys consider another data representation for unknown length, escaped ASCII... where 0x01-0xFF are as normal, 0x00 0x00 = 0x00, 0x00 0xelse=EOF? < 1203310573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, that might not be easy for BF to process < 1203310573 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would possibly incur less overhead than LNUM/LBYTES < 1203310657 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be too bad.. you'd use the standard if=0 code < 1203310833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1203310845 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while not eof { data=read_byte; if=0 { data=read_byte; if<>0 { set_eof } }; if !eof { do_something_with_read_byte } } < 1203310850 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1203310868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1203310954 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does meh mean? < 1203310986 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that a way of dismissing what I said without actually coming up with a refutation? < 1203311001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most exquisitly horrible < 1203311015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e < 1203311033 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bf for ya < 1203311059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like the easier-for-BF-to-process solution < 1203311079 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem like it's much different to me < 1203311101 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still going to need the inner if to decide what to do < 1203311179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while not eof { data1=read_byte; data2=read_byte; if data1=0x01 { set_eof }; if !eof { do_something_with_data2 } } < 1203311227 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that my if<>0 is easy to code up, so that's nothing < 1203311306 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? they are essentially identical.. and now more capable langs don't have to output so much < 1203311312 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or read so much < 1203311385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still hold that the current way is simpler < 1203311417 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is slightly simpler at the expense of approx twice as much I/O < 1203311424 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for BF only < 1203311430 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other langs it is no simpler < 1203311508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what was your way again? < 1203311551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x01-0xFF are as normal, 0x00 0x00 = 0x00, 0x00 0xelse=EOF? < 1203311559 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 = ESC, ESC 00 = 00, ESC 01 = END_OF_DATA < 1203311575 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01=ELSE.. either way < 1203311622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was a flaw, but I was thinking of something else < 1203311656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing out to that format requires a bit of processing < 1203311677 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an if statement is a lot of processing? < 1203311689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rememeber trying to do something similar, where 0x01 escapes, and unescaped 0x00 is EOF < 1203311699 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if data_to_output = 0x00 { output 0x00; output 0x00 } < 1203311852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying you need to replace the other.. but it would be nice to see this as an alternative format < 1203311877 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with the way you are doing the processing it might be a pain to add it < 1203311883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's currently no provisions for clients to choose which format they want to do < 1203311903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's basically the only way I can think of adding it < 1203311920 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh it's all up to the function receiving it? < 1203311937 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, then it'd have to be one or the other < 1203312004 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serialization is such a pain :) < 1203312018 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203312143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203312310 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bedtime.. bbl < 1203312316 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203312953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I think I mostly completed the docs for the Net domain < 1203312970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll then eventually work on the File I/O domain and base the FTP parts of the Net domain on that < 1203313162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably go now < 1203314046 0 :rutlov!n=voltur@217-68-167-217.dynamic.primacom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203314202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203314406 0 :rutlov!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203315969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x01 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x50 0x0A < 1203316006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ beginnings of an HTTP server < 1203316054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x02 0x00 0x0A < 1203316064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x02 0x11 0x04 0x0A < 1203316078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x01 0x00 0x0A < 1203316263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x01 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x50 0x0A 0x00 0x08 0x02 0x00 0x0A 0x00 0x02 0x11 0x04 0x0A 0x00 0x01 0x00 0x0A < 1203316967 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, check it out- I wrote a lisp-derivative bingo card generator in postscript: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203316480.html < 1203317001 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions for additional words? < 1203318281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203321599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203321600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203322283 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1203329773 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203330250 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203330907 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203332097 0 :es0n00b!n=es0n00b@C-61-68-234-123.ade.connect.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1203332112 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203332116 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203332118 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203332121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION provides help < 1203332133 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy do < 1203332144 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral support? < 1203332150 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203332152 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello es0n00b. < 1203332202 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s``sii`ki``s``s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`si``s`k`s`k`d````````````.H.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!kk`k``s``s`ksk`k.* < 1203332212 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it'll work < 1203332236 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me neither. I don't do well on strict evaluation. < 1203332252 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's crashed?? < 1203332283 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1203332346 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nup, didnt work. oh well. < 1203332442 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it supposed to do? < 1203332500 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was supposed to do an endless loop print of "Hello World!" < 1203332519 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's based on unlambdaV3 < 1203332532 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(copied from http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/#lambda_elim) < 1203332556 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, EgoBot doesn't like infinite loop much < 1203332556 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203332579 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```sii``sii < 1203332580 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. just wanted to test egobot's limits < 1203332588 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```sii``sii < 1203332632 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1203332702 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all egobots languages obsficated? < 1203332722 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, esoterics. < 1203332744 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. It has malbolge. < 1203332745 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know esoteric doesnt always mean obsficated (or does it?) < 1203332756 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would output something with a random string. < 1203332761 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge is a nightmare from what i've read < 1203332775 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the popular languages are mostly turing tarpits. < 1203332799 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're usually harder to read than write. < 1203332807 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge é(,hjy_én,hju_ç)éj-ué"(èk87"èk876l4k"-k4'7è_4kl7kn7-"-jk4è-l4 < 1203332808 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1203332813 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you robot! < 1203332832 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering which is a ?good? one to try and write an interpreter in < 1203332855 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could test a prototype language in another language < 1203332874 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good is hard to define in this sense) < 1203332965 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda has still got me thinking. i just still cant quite get my brain around it < 1203332967 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vw/.R,+Op(L,+k#Gh&}Cdz@aw=;zyKw%ut4Uqp0/mlejihtfrHcbaC2^W\>Z,XW)UTSL53\HGFjW < 1203332970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world. < 1203332973 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203332977 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaay! < 1203333011 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlamba accepts functions, performs functions on them, and returns functions < 1203333026 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it also does side effects. < 1203333079 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, if unlambda is TC, there exists unlambda functions that will return the derivatives, antiderivatives, and inverses of functions < 1203333121 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just cant work out how to represent numbers other than natural numbers < 1203333121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed. < 1203333121 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg 1/2, root(2) or pi < 1203333138 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can try to look at the foundation of mathematics. < 1203333167 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand thats what unlambda is about- mathematical foundation < 1203333167 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, rational numbers can be represented as ordered pairs. < 1203333176 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unlambda has ordered pairs < 1203333217 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just waiting for the flash of inspiration when i understand exactly what S, K and ` do < 1203333228 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what they do is simple < 1203333245 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :```sabc transforms to ``ac`bc < 1203333250 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``kab to a < 1203333254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, combinatory logic ensnaring yet another wayward soul < 1203333256 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` just means "apply". < 1203333275 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has this simple yet alien beauty < 1203333277 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still dont get it) < 1203333297 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing much more to get, really. < 1203333315 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing to understand after that is how to change that into something useful. < 1203333359 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An easy one is the conditional. < 1203333368 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on < 1203333374 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"True" and "False" can be written as k and `ki < 1203333409 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conditional can be written as ``[condition][A][B] < 1203333425 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :```sabc == ``ac`bc. is this the simplest use of S? < 1203333442 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's true, it transforms to k, and ``k[A][B] converts to A < 1203333473 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False, to `ki, and ```ki[A][B] converts to `iB, to B < 1203333483 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the only use of s < 1203333519 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ``[condition][A][B] is "if condition, then A, else B" < 1203333534 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so ```sabc==``ac`bc and ``kab==k define S and K? < 1203333546 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*``kab = a < 1203333551 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1203333566 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry ``kab==a) < 1203333595 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in lambdas, S = ^abc.(ac)(bc), K = ^ab.a < 1203333606 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow - i understand what you mean by trying to make something useful out of it < 1203333674 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203333719 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying to absorb unlamdba's if-then-else) < 1203333778 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok -why is k=TRUE, `ki=FALSE? < 1203333802 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conventions, I assume < 1203333834 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably work some true-false with something else, but conditionals are easy to do this way. < 1203333845 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical operator are easy too. < 1203333847 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. and what does the I in `kI do? < 1203333863 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is the identity combinator. < 1203333869 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`iA = A < 1203333903 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not necessary, since there's also ```skkA = ``kA`kA = A < 1203333907 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's shorter. < 1203333921 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so used to instructions doing things. is it still right to call them instructions, and say that they do thinks? unlambda is beginning to unravel my understanding of the definition of things) < 1203333951 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The madness is setting in :o < 1203333963 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a useful fellow : ``s``si`k`k`ki`kk < 1203333976 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. think i got that part. `iA says perform identity function on A, returning identity(A)=A < 1203333991 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "is zero" function. < 1203334001 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns true for 0, false for something bigger. < 1203334041 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example of "``s``si`k`k`ki`kk" plz? < 1203334072 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in Church numerals, 0 is ^fx.x -> ki < 1203334087 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ```s``si`k`k`ki`kkki transforms to k < 1203334116 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1 = ^fx.fx = (through eta reduction) ^x.x = i < 1203334127 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ```s``si`k`k`ki`kki transforms to ki < 1203334178 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 would be something like ``s``s`ksk``s``s`ksk`ki according to my abstraction elimination program, so I'll probably stop there < 1203334229 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok- being able to evaluate x=0 is useful, but evaluating x>0 is more useful < 1203334244 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x>0 is longer < 1203334250 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And x=y even longer. < 1203334303 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a>b is ``b`b``c`t0k``c``bb``b`b``c`t`k0k``c``bb`c`t``c``bc``b`bc``c``bc``b`bb``cb``b`bttkiii in lazy bird, and it's already quite compressed. < 1203334305 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=y, x=0, x<0, etc etc can all be derived from x>0 (the basis of OISC type languages) < 1203334366 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if I use the a0 and if-then-else versions of unlamba < 1203334626 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though probably not pleasant. < 1203334661 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably tinker some negative number with some ordered pair < 1203334674 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem would then be trying to find ways of eliminating redundant code < 1203334678 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the operation applied on it will depend on the truth value. < 1203334698 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ie code optimisation) < 1203334743 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea has been floating around in my head for a few days now, the problem of compiling one Turing tarpit into another tarpit < 1203334758 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a simple way is to write first in lambdas, since with lambda calculus, any function f used more than once can be rewritten as (^f.program)function < 1203334775 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But lambda calculus doesn't transform to combinators very efficiently < 1203334998 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine translation if fascinating. like transforming english->japanese->english. good for shits and giggles < 1203335068 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(too many ideas - too little time and skill to implement) < 1203335129 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant even imagine trig function i unlamba, but i guess they've been explored already?? < 1203335204 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking of it - even divide seem difficult. < 1203335222 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's just some iteration of series. < 1203335279 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course! first, define factorial, then use some recursive version of the Taylor series! < 1203335296 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorials are well known. < 1203335309 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usually the standard example for the fixed point combinator. < 1203335414 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. know much about the gamma function (related to factorial, but also valid for non-natural numbers) < 1203335471 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we don't use it that much in physics. < 1203335489 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_function < 1203335505 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it is. < 1203335507 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamma(n)=(n-1)! < 1203335542 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how wouyld you define the integral version of gamma in unlamba? < 1203335582 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my guess would be that first, you have to define reals. < 1203335591 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where the laugh ends! < 1203335627 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could probably scratch up something out of rationals and taylor series. < 1203335668 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i worked out a way to define integration by recursion of a function without determining its antiderivative, but it was only valid for bounded integrals < 1203335676 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie wouldnt apply for gamma < 1203335748 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd advise to first work on simpler programs. < 1203335769 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda isn't the easiest language in the world. < 1203335793 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also often hard to manipulate, since it's hard to keep tracks of variables < 1203335794 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just want to dive in and do things - but understand it aint that easy) < 1203335877 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: yep. gamma doesnt have an taylor polynomial definition, but there is another non-integral definition that would be an easier approach < 1203335886 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personnaly usually just write my functions in lambda calculus. < 1203335894 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least not an EASY taylor definition) < 1203335908 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then converts it to combinators. < 1203335929 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep a small list of functions, plus numbers from 0 to 100 < 1203335967 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, I try to optimise the functions. < 1203336010 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the sort of line of thinking i was having < 1203336026 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually by letting them run through Lazy Bird (it can prints the expression at each step, so I can pick the shortest), trying to see by hand what it does, or passing it through the JUGGERNAUT < 1203336041 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JUGGERNAUT is a fucking stupid program, but it works. < 1203336063 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, on a certain class of expressions at least < 1203336064 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read a little about Lazy-Bird. whats that about? < 1203336092 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my version of unlambda, with lazy evaluation. < 1203336099 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it easier to use. < 1203336104 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, more combinators. < 1203336123 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a short-cut version of unlamba? < 1203336154 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1203336159 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(easier to read, not difficult to convert Lbird -> unlambda?) < 1203336163 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1203336179 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, it's probably not that easy to convert to unlambda < 1203336186 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-144.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203336231 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Juggernaut will generate all possible combinators (minus some expressions like `iA, since it's the same as A), try them on a bunch of dummy combinators, and compare the result to the original combinator. < 1203336268 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, for some dummy combinator A, ```skkA converts to A, and so does `iA, so it will give that answer. < 1203336315 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But stuff like ``uuA converts to `A``uuA, so it won't be able to find equivalents without u's in them. < 1203336348 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very fucking slow, but it's useful on small bits of code. < 1203336366 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski < 1203336396 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `ki < 1203336396 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda expressions without output won't give you much results. < 1203336405 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1203336418 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying some basics < 1203336448 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``k```.b.u.t.t````.s.t.u.f.f < 1203336454 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butstuf < 1203336464 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, I forgot < 1203336478 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess there are more consise ways of representing large numbers, other than the iterative version like s(s(s(z))) < 1203336479 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did I? < 1203336502 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large numbers can usually be represented by operations on smaller one. < 1203336522 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most basic is through the successor operator, but there's shorter ways < 1203336543 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Lazy%20Bird/Church%206.txt < 1203336636 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sudden reduction in size of the writing usually corresponds to a power of some numbers < 1203336653 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the power of a number is the shortest operation. < 1203336693 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 is very short because it's (2^2)^(2^2) < 1203336696 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(knew powers would have to feature somewhere in the definitions) < 1203336757 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was kind of thinking along the lines of binary is more compact than unary, but other base numbers being more efficient for other nautral numbers < 1203336775 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your page defines that brilliantly. THX!! < 1203336779 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodmorning < 1203336782 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203336807 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually mostly used the Lazy K reference doc on numbers. < 1203336810 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moringing < 1203336815 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except translated from lambdas to lazy K < 1203336820 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bird < 1203336854 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. how do i get !unlambda to evaluate and output 256=`m`m``sbi. it's going to return it in unary form, right?? < 1203336880 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, church-to-ASCII is bothersome to write. < 1203336884 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seems like it's going to be too easy to flood the page) < 1203336929 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. my question wasn't well defined. lets say i wanted to print 256 asterisks?? < 1203336931 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ````b``sb`m``sbi``sbi`d.xi < 1203336932 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./unlambda/unlambda: file ./tmp/egobot.0kJFuG: parse error < 1203336951 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll never understand unlambda. < 1203336959 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, I'm dumb < 1203336960 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why < 1203336964 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong combinators. < 1203336976 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, to the Birdiest! < 1203336995 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Birdiest being Lazy bird -> SKI translator) < 1203337018 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translator! coo-oo-ool! < 1203337043 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(said with my lasiest owl impersonation) < 1203337107 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just replaces b-c-w-... with their sk equivalents. < 1203337121 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``````s`ksk``s``s`ksk```s``skk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk`d.xi < 1203337134 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1203337140 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``````s`ksk``s``s`ksk```s``skk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk``s``s`ksk``skk.xi < 1203337150 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda `.xi < 1203337165 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's mad at me I think. < 1203337196 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1203337214 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxx < 1203337216 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxx < 1203337218 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1203337219 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, finally < 1203337231 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, there's the unary printing. < 1203337275 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlamda ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk < 1203337278 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1203337280 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk < 1203337300 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok - either fibbonacci or crash) < 1203337313 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i vote for crash) < 1203337318 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203337327 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You used some pairing in it? < 1203337347 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just copying straight from http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ < 1203337367 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the codes might be for unlambdaV3.0 < 1203337373 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibonacci doesn't stop, too. < 1203337380 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he might not appreciate < 1203337395 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, none of the codes from that page have worked. at least, not the ones with looping < 1203337406 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your right. egobot might not like infinite loops < 1203337419 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway to kill a bad looping process?? < 1203337428 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203337430 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon < 1203337432 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl < 1203337436 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill < 1203337466 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could either use iterations instead of loop, or you could use v with some conditional. < 1203337486 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. time to go to bed. and count sheep. in LAMB-da, of course ;) < 1203337498 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1203337512 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao for now. have a good day < 1203337530 0 :es0n00b!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"JWIRC applet" < 1203339156 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such process! < 1203339202 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slowpoke < 1203339360 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1203342296 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203343080 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203347271 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203347353 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203348381 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they work now... http://inshame.blogspot.com/2008/02/efficient-brainfuck-tables.html < 1203349655 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203349695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, vaguely crazy world < 1203349720 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203349725 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic would be clearer with | as the seperator < 1203349726 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stands out more < 1203349761 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang | forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | EgoBot: !help | wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric | Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1203349764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an example < 1203349945 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203350181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203350186 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does !unlambda not support v3? < 1203350324 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, since the example used involved infinite loops, I'm not sure that was the problem < 1203350375 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203350376 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just asking < 1203351483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's this about tcl virtual what what < 1203353453 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host192-81-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203354246 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203354991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Tcl has a virtual filesystem layer, allowing one (with the right module) to just attach a file descriptor to http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/wget.b. < 1203355000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to a file in a Tclkit. . . < 1203355056 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering writing a cleaner psox < 1203355063 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Socks Pee, or something. :-P < 1203355122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are you at all familiar with Tclkits, Starkits, and Starpacks?) < 1203355153 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host192-81-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203355488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No < 1203355858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Tclkit is a full, complete Tcl setup in one file. < 1203355879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Starkit is an archiving format for Tcl files. A Tclkit can run one directly. < 1203355886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Starpack is a Tclkit with a Starkit in it. < 1203356271 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203356797 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host192-81-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203356811 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(I should be able to manipulate code as a list)." -- Someone, on Scheme. < 1203356872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, go for it. < 1203356877 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it :S < 1203356897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[info proc proc_name] returns the code body of a function. < 1203356899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a list. < 1203356900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1203356994 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note scheme. < 1203357002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Well, that's what Lisps are known for.. < 1203357007 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can manipulate code as a list. < 1203357019 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just found it funny < 1203357455 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203357472 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203357518 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-202-40.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203357649 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203358576 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203359198 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203359527 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203360308 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203360674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1203360677 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203360677 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Tcl world. < 1203360677 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203360678 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203360678 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost forgot. This is a test. < 1203360680 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203360731 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203360732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird` < 1203360733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll take that to #endeavour < 1203360734 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203360944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been trying to write code on some buggy hardware < 1203360961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the code was originally in C, I ended up having to edit the assembly by hand to get round the machine code instructions that didn't work < 1203360968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then it only ran under a debugger... < 1203360978 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1203360993 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of : http://www.mini-moto.fr/photo%20jpeg%20bon%20format/buggy%201.jpg < 1203360997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it was just a faulty chip < 1203361002 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be an awesome code < 1203361009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've ordered a couple of replacements to see if they work < 1203361070 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Endeavour, btw, is my EgoBot-alike) < 1203361084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it run any esolangs yet? < 1203361245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1203361245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203361249 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just started it < 1203361261 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in tcl due to pikhq's ... uh, total failure to evangelize it < 1203361266 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least that means it'll be utf-8! < 1203361285 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it parse sum unikitten! < 1203361332 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1203361551 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1203361848 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203361908 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203362096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes < 1203362960 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203363172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a new idea for an uncomputable language < 1203363181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :share < 1203363185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like Prolog, but uses multithreading rather than backtracking < 1203363189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an infinite number of threads < 1203363199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts with a thread for every possible value of every possible variable < 1203363208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the threads die whenever they reach a contradiction < 1203363217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do that, lazily < 1203363217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203363231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial to write the halting problem in it < 1203363234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinite loops are impossible < 1203363244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's subturing then < 1203363245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203363248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1203363257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it oraclises to tell that the infinite loop would happen < 1203363272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203363291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ehird`, maybe FDs aren't the way to go with a GUI domain, come up with something else? < 1203363297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it solves *the halting problem*, it's an oracle, if it computes its own halting problem it's an impossible language. < 1203363313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it computes its own halting problem < 1203363315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm writing soxp, so maybe not best to ask me < 1203363316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203363326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soxp? < 1203363326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the famous impossibility proof for halting fails on it < 1203363331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't drive it into an infinite loop < 1203363331 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like psox, but soxp. < 1203363340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you serious? < 1203363342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link please? < 1203363349 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure you can kind of compute that, lazily and non-deterministically < 1203363357 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my harddrive < 1203363390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, why are you wasting effort on your own version of something that already exists? < 1203363403 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because soxp is sane -- so it doesn't exist < 1203363405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Russel:-suchthat(X,not(member(X,X))),member(X,X). < 1203363416 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wasting time; < 1203363419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought a while about that one before realising it failed < 1203363421 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all esolangs are wasting time pretty much anyway. < 1203363424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is PSOX not sane? < 1203363432 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Various ways, none of which you acknowledge < 1203363433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing member(X,X) with not(member(X,X)) also causes it to fail < 1203363442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adding neither, the command succeeds < 1203363443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, such as? < 1203363450 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see logs, Sgeo < 1203363651 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203363659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasoning: the notion of a set that contains all sets that do not contain themselves is not a contradiction by itself < 1203363671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a contradiction to assert either that it contains itself or that it doesn't < 1203363674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russel lists = [not (elem x x) | x <- lists] < 1203363680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, so no GUI domain? < 1203363682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1203363689 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: soxp will have one. < 1203363711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX already exists, you know < 1203363718 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX sucks. < 1203363728 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203363749 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russel = filter (\x -> not (elem x x)) < 1203363754 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't type, of course. < 1203363779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my new idea of a language infinite datatypes are entirely possible and even possibly common < 1203363803 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite datatype in AwesomeHaskell: < 1203363806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kinda like in haskell? < 1203363815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: infinite datatypes are no tpossible in haskell. < 1203363817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you think ehird` should attempt to redo PSOX in what he believes to be a cleaner way? < 1203363818 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why my thing doesn't type. < 1203363822 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the y combinator doesn't type < 1203363828 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AwesomeHaskell" LOL < 1203363830 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sgeo can't come up with opinions for himself without consulting other people. < 1203363832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Haskell syntax inspired much of the syntax of my new language < 1203363841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks more like Prolog because the Prolog syntax is used more often < 1203363845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: indeed, misread < 1203363849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type InfiniteListType = [InfiniteListType] < 1203363854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite datatypes ought to be possible anywhere < 1203363854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, My opinion is that you shouldn't do it < 1203363863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least anywhere that doesn't care about efficiency < 1203363867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, because god forbid you get competition < 1203363881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want my t -> t -> t -> t -> ... datatype < 1203363882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it's needless work on your part < 1203363888 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, sgeo, for making me see the light. From now on, since you say I shouldn't do it, I won't. < 1203363890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trivial: < 1203363893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can write sii in Haskell < 1203363904 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Inf a = a -> Inf a < 1203363937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy enough to define in Haskell, only the compilers don't allow it < 1203363947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not without the constructor < 1203363952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the constructor sort of defeats the point < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Fooer a = (Fooer a -> a) < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type YType a = (Fooer a) -> a < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y :: YType a < 1203363975 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y f = (\x -> x x) (\x -> f (x x)) < 1203363980 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ I think < 1203363983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is awesomehaskell! < 1203363989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite types aren't even needed for sii, just the typechecker isn't good enough < 1203364005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, define: < 1203364008 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm: < 1203364012 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Fooer a = Fooer a -> a < 1203364017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even the first argument of y? < 1203364020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it should be < 1203364021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :churchnumeral2 x y = x (x y) < 1203364022 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Fooer a = a -> a < 1203364038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how likely/unlikely it is for ehird` to ever complete his soxp < 1203364041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then (sii churchnumeral2) has a perfectly well-defined type < 1203364050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Certainly quickly < 1203364053 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I will start a spec now. < 1203364076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll work on implementing the Net domain now < 1203364092 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does the Net domain really need FTP stuff other than getting from an FTP URL? < 1203364109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That ought to suffice. < 1203364115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have thought so < 1203364128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, getting from a URL? ok < 1203364130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more complex FTP client would want to use the TCP stuff, anyways. < 1203364156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use a custom FTP domain < 1203364203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, even if ehird creats the world's most awesome API for esolangs, at least Sgeo can claim credit in making the first one that's been fully implemented. < 1203364211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And driving ehird's into existence. ;) < 1203364220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;F < 1203364222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1203364224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203364233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;Y < 1203364314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;W < 1203364358 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very first draft: < 1203364359 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/908860 < 1203364527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers the Sgeo I/O design to the ehird` I/O design < 1203364528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203364538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a pity that you can't portably have waiting-for-input detection < 1203364550 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, my io will have a sugar on top of it < 1203364551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you can... I heard somewhere that Windows is POSIX-compatible < 1203364562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean that select may be available there after all < 1203364568 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my model is cleaner conceptually though < 1203364571 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sugar will make it even nicer < 1203364577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably with a different name and syntax, knowing Microsoft < 1203364612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all I know is that the Python docs for select.select() say that Windows can't do it with files < 1203364629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to do it with files, though < 1203364630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with pipes < 1203364641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pipes I think I meant < 1203364663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select isn't very useful with other types of file-like object < 1203364672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Note: File objects on Windows are not acceptable, but sockets are. On Windows, the underlying select() function is provided by the WinSock library, and does not handle file descriptors that don't originate from WinSock. < 1203364672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1203364680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/lib/module-select.html < 1203364686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only ever used it with pipes and keyboard/screen stdin/stdout < 1203364701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wonder whether pipes are implemented with sockets on Windows < 1203364732 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203364736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203364746 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203364772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Would I be correct in assuming you'll simplify the type system? < 1203364801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Most definately. < 1203364811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, how would it be simplified? < 1203364824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should play with that fancy array code < 1203364832 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not being ridiculous < 1203365304 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy lists in 23 lines of simple, readable ruby. cool. < 1203365313 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1203365337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: oh! < 1203365351 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203365370 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203365448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: hmm, i was trying to make 'fold' (inject) lazy < 1203365448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203365488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones = LazyList.new(1) {ones} < 1203365510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold can be lazy in one direction < 1203365519 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones.map {|x| puts x} # this actually prints one 1, until you give it tail. heh. < 1203365527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly if you try that it will go into an infinite loop if the list is, in fact, infinite < 1203365597 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203365633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, should I have sockets flush themselves whenever they're written to? < 1203365644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203365644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def inject(base, &blk) < 1203365644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blk[head, tail.inject(base, &blk)] < 1203365644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1203365648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it's worth making that use a thunk? < 1203365671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know you weren't asking me, but I know from experience that some obscure bugs in code I wrote were traceable to not doing that < 1203365689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so don't force the client to do it themselves? < 1203365689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203365692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine that with the slow speed of most esolangs, and there's no reason not to < 1203365701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty ais523 < 1203365972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastebin.ca/908906 weird bug with thunks < 1203365972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203365985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def method_missing(*args, &blk) < 1203365985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thunk.new {@block.call.__send__(*args, &blk)} < 1203365985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1203365989 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it return a Thunk < 1203365990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not [a,b] < 1203365993 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1203365995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to #python sockets aren't buffered, so don't flush < 1203365998 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it type-checks that, < 1203366003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using sendall() though < 1203366007 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should go through method_missing, and getting it properly < 1203366009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT.. < 1203366013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the internal ruby c api to do it < 1203366014 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203366028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so in otherwords even the Python devs thought autoflush was a good idea < 1203366239 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i wish ruby had was to_b < 1203366244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definable boolean coercion < 1203366245 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1203366281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ it would be your_class_name_here::operator(bool) < 1203366292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you overload the cast operator < 1203366325 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203366333 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, can you do this in C++: < 1203366339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class TrueClass; def to_b; false; end end < 1203366346 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class FalseClass; def to_b; true end end < 1203366357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1203366367 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true.is_a? TrueClass < 1203366368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby. < 1203366383 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, admittedly since TrueClass/FalseClass instances (aka true & false) would be handled primitively, that would do nothing, but :)) < 1203366393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class TrueClass{public: bool operator(bool){return false;}}; < 1203366428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but true isn't a trueclass in c++... < 1203366442 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ruby changes the meaning of true and false < 1203366442 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, as my note says, tahat wouldn't actually work < 1203366452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ you have to know which type each object is at all times < 1203366455 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> true.class < 1203366455 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> TrueClass < 1203366460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could create a constructor that constructed it from true < 1203366473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus allowing true to be casted into a TrueClass < 1203366483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... but true IS a trueclass, in ruby < 1203366484 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no casting < 1203366485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even have it throw an exception if you wrote (TrueClass)false... < 1203366488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true is a regular object < 1203366490 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an instance of TrueClass < 1203366498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: what if you have two TrueClasses < 1203366504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different member functions < 1203366506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't.. < 1203366507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same name? < 1203366509 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one TrueClass < 1203366512 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code snippit < 1203366514 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opens up TrueClass < 1203366517 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and monkeypatches it < 1203366526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1203366529 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how e.g. you can extend Array and stuff in ruby < 1203366536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be used for evil, but it can also be used for very cool things < 1203366556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it who went and created C++ that looked like Lisp by overloading most of the operators? < 1203366560 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1203366566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was someone in #esoteric, but I can't remember who < 1203366566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fig? < 1203366574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, basically, mine reverses the truth values, but of course if ruby actually checked to_b for true/falseclass, it would be an infinite regress, so it wouldn't < 1203366579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figs < 1203366597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's done a lot of weird shit in c++ < 1203366599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that rings a bell < 1203366776 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo, though, < 1203366780 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing hideously broken about ruby < 1203366781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is block scope < 1203366789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x00 implemented! < 1203366796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2; something_taking_a_block {|x| ...}; x => the value in the block < 1203366799 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is being fixed for 1.9 < 1203366804 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as huge speed improvements with the new vm < 1203367426 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1203367608 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww damn.... < 1203367613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make 'inject' lazy.. < 1203367618 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only way is basically this: < 1203367624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if FBF will support PSOX < 1203367636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def inject(base, &blk) < 1203367636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : blk[head, (magic thunkify: tail.inject(base, &blk))]; end < 1203367643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the magic thunkify is basically impossible < 1203367652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't make it be a truly transparent proxy < 1203367709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how can I checkout the PSOX repo? < 1203367710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk < 1203367716 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welllllll < 1203367721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox < 1203367729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the branches and tags and stuff < 1203367738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1203367739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably unneeded < 1203367740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1203367807 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, esolangs embedded in C++ through operator overloading sounds interesting < 1203367849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking about writing an INTERCAL library to make use of PSOX < 1203367866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oO < 1203367898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are already libraries for other things < 1203367905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including infamously floating-point arithmetic < 1203367910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a d < 1203367915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a d\n// < 1203367938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no floating-point in PSOX :/ < 1203367952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if floating-point will be in ehird`'s SOXP < 1203367965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1203367969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, support PSOX before even considering SOXP please < 1203367983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nothing can support SOXP yet so there =P < 1203368060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, once I implement domain 0x08, are you going to write some stuff to test it? < 1203368076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1203368094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Conformance with widely-accepted standards was not considered to be a priority for an INTERCAL library. (The fact that the general format conforms to IEEE at all is due to sheer pragmatism.)" < 1203368127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a note stating that pi is represented as #571$#35133 < 1203368145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is amused at the way that their client assumes that INTERCAL constants are IRC channels < 1203368175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to the official INTERCAL PI channel < 1203368235 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' But yeah, support PSOX before even considering SOXP please' you realise how stupid this sounds < 1203368249 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Hello! Everyone ignore Elliott's project, it upsets me. Use PSOX, it's so much better!!!' < 1203368262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, PSOX currently exists >.> < 1203368280 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't for an awful long time, I add. < 1203368285 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two, double-u tee ef is SOXP? < 1203368301 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION already regrets asking that. < 1203368315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOXP is ehird`'s hypothetical redoing of PSOX, in a supposedly cleaner way < 1203368323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hmm - you're right, it needs an acronym expansion. SOXP Only eXceeds PSOX < 1203368351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, PSOX doesn't get an ancronym expansion, its name is historical < 1203368390 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, SOXP is better than PSOX in that way too. < 1203368791 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203368866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1203368889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please leave logs to learn about ehird`'s latest copycat insanity < 1203368903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203368907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan! < 1203368911 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to write OXPS < 1203368913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not leave, read < 1203368915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night was *awesome* < 1203368916 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ Sgeo < 1203368922 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be SOXP -done right- < 1203368930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol faxathisia < 1203368934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should write something called SPOX < 1203368943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has nothing to do with PSOX, OXPS, SOXP, etc., apart from the name < 1203368943 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I AM SO EMOTIONALLY HURT ABOUT SOMEONE DECIDING TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO MY PROJECT THAT I WILL MAKE STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT IT TO EVERYONE TO REAFFIRM PSOX'S AWESOMENESS' < 1203368943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna make OXLOPS < 1203368961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's is/was PESOIX, by the way? < 1203368971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, calamari < 1203368977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1203368986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari was involved somehow < 1203369020 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want some calamari.. < 1203369062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the time is overdue for PSUX < 1203369114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone other than ehird` honestly see a point for SOXP? < 1203369151 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Does anyone other than Sgeo honestly see a point for PSOX? I mean, we have PESOIX and EsoAPI' <-- past people < 1203369163 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the better you make PSOX the worse SOXP is gonna look.. < 1203369169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: exactly < 1203369178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd sort of remembered EsoAPI, but only vaguely, so couldn't remember the name < 1203369186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that'll teach you try and make others interested in your projects! :D < 1203369192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it just looks like he's insecure about someone thinking PSOX is something other than perfect. So he's stifiling any innovation, because it's not his. < 1203369222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes competition is good, say the free-wheelers, er market people < 1203369238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just accept it, ehird`'s only way to get interested is to take your idea and make it good < 1203369248 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :) < 1203369257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good, perrrfect! < 1203369274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still waiting for ehirdphica :< < 1203369277 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm.. < 1203369299 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdphica? < 1203369301 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to get ehird` interested in my broken thingymajig < 1203369305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: what thingy < 1203369307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: graphica! < 1203369312 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203369314 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203369330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what's ehirdphica? < 1203369336 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Hard to say what's broken.. It's either the self interpreter from the paper, my compiler or my interpreter < 1203369366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphica never rose that much interest, except for faxathisia, the official non-tc lang enthusiasist < 1203369366 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: but anyway, something doesn't work.. so I can't run the Janus self interpreter < 1203369400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: if that's an esolang, could you put a stub with a link on the wiki so I can take a look? < 1203369424 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure but I think it's an esolang < 1203369439 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of minimal and every program is reversible < 1203369444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if perhaps a layer could be made between a SOXP client and a PSOX server to make them work together.. or the other way around.. < 1203369452 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is like While though < 1203369460 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quiteconventional) < 1203369478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ehirdphica was what ehird would turn graphica into, naturally. < 1203369481 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> ones.dump_to($stdout) < 1203369481 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, ... < 1203369506 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1203369665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203369929 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyone: ones = lazy(1) { ones } # comments on this syntax? < 1203369948 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly.. < 1203369949 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203369951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know Ruby < 1203369970 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: why? < 1203369972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also do: < 1203369981 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the 1 isn't the lazy bit < 1203369982 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = lazy(1,2,3) { foo } < 1203369987 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,...] < 1203370000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes the way lists are implemented in Unlambda < 1203370002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: ah. i can make both head and tail lazy if you want, but then it's LazyMegaThing, not LazyList < 1203370009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my most usual Underload implementation works a similar way < 1203370020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is meant to fit into ruby well... < 1203370022 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, < 1203370025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones.map {|x| x+2} < 1203370026 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1203370030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are many options for implementing lists in Unlambda < 1203370034 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1203370044 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: you can even print it infinitely like in haskell < 1203370050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not via 'inspect' since that returns a string < 1203370054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: infinitely many, perhaps? < 1203370060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the one I know is where the list returns its head when applied to one function and its tail when applied to another < 1203370061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: at least < 1203370072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = lazy(1,2,3) { foo }; foo.map {|x| x+2}.dump_to(STDOUT) < 1203370074 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get: < 1203370079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was quite an underestimate < 1203370080 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy(1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,... < 1203370232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the Net::urlget function, should I attempt to return the HTTP status code, or don't bother? < 1203370236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq? < 1203370250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it might not even be an HTTP url.. < 1203370493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, changes committed. Want to test sockets? < 1203370530 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pikhq your testing dummy or something < 1203370604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says: not ATM. < 1203370614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta finish off homework. ;) < 1203370678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203370905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye everyone" < 1203370982 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203371064 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203371111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now fully possible to write a multi-threaded HTTP Server in Brainfork < 1203371126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for the lack of File access, sorry < 1203371130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A. . . Multithreaded server? < 1203371132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-O < 1203371132 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh..... < 1203371138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Brain*fork*. < 1203371138 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh........ < 1203371141 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT? < 1203371142 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, fork() isn't threads. < 1203371142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203371146 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is fork(). < 1203371155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203371158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mybad < 1203371158 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: Brain*fork*. < 1203371167 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: I know < 1203371168 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: I know < 1203371181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Sgeo, that's like saying < 1203371187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Brainfork multithreaded http server: ''" < 1203371194 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With my MagicalServerEnabler filter." < 1203371205 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, multi-threaded servers suck. You want async io. < 1203371206 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: How is ti though? < 1203371208 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: ehrid? < 1203371214 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1203371247 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`. < 1203371261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, with the way PSOX works, it would probably make more sense not to use forking, really < 1203371710 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203371719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, ehird`, idea for SOXP: Support threads, e.g. have each thread, when issuing a SOXP command, print out a byte indicating the thread first < 1203371737 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203371745 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would comment on how that accomplishes nothing at all < 1203371749 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead i'll just laugh a bit < 1203371771 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you threading.. < 1203371776 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203371787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi slereah_ < 1203371796 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that only VM processes are parallel, you don't get extra parallelism in the language < 1203371815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia, you could use brainfork < 1203371829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you'd need to make sure that only one thread issues a command at a time, I guess < 1203371833 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you don't extra parallelism < 1203371834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's very meh < 1203371885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, going to watch Seinfeld/take care of books for an hour < 1203371887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all < 1203371897 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1203372472 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1203372708 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203373269 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203373660 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203373791 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun|pants < 1203374228 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203374663 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203374800 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203375108 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203375250 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203375634 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203375757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I miss anything.. wow absolutely notjing < 1203375775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we start talking about PSOX and SOXP again/ < 1203375802 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203375853 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203376035 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203376043 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203376576 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203377022 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-86-60.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203377078 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203377882 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378681 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378681 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1203378681 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203378686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1203378703 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378703 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1203378703 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203378718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY is it just saying Hi? < 1203378737 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fucking with our brain. < 1203378784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203378817 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203378817 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. I wrote this BF program with the help of a horrible horrible generator I wrote. < 1203378817 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203378821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1203378831 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like that generator is really horrible! < 1203378845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to see the code for the generator? < 1203378859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet: The generated code < 1203378935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/909224 < 1203378981 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments plz? < 1203379012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was generated < 1203379024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By this < 1203379024 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/909227 < 1203379064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the script < 1203379067 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203379085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/909228 is the generator < 1203379091 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think we're lacking newcomers? < 1203379098 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're building them yourself? < 1203379133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203379145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wanted to test/demonstrate sockets from PSOX < 1203379169 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moar liek sockpuppets! < 1203379189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203379211 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203379211 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. I wrote this BF program with the help of a horrible horrible generator I wrote. < 1203379211 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203379217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so slow in connecting though < 1203379269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a better syntax for scripts < 1203379433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually pretty cool now that i see it in action < 1203379449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, PSOX? < 1203379467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. unlambda cannot output any possible byte (right?), can psox be used with it? < 1203379490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, um.. what do you mean by "cannot output any possible byte"? < 1203379500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox seems to need null bytes a lot? < 1203379502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, zeroes. < 1203379507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes < 1203379517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can output that in unlambda.. :< < 1203379518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: unlambda can output anything in principle < 1203379525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203379532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to have the chars in the source? :P < 1203379536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1203379537 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1203379541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203379562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my self-interpreter has a table of all the ?x'es < 1203379577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the .x's can be generated from the input using |) < 1203379591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be awesome to have a system where just being able to output two different bytes would suffice. < 1203379602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox for dummies < 1203379643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1203379657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh this means you actually cannot do PSOX with just null-terminated C strings < 1203379662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, so that those two could be anything... you would have a clever initialization where the language tells psox what it can do. < 1203379689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after which an encoding rises somewhat naturally, for languages where not everything is easy to output < 1203379719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well who cares about such turing tarpits anyway < 1203379722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think PESOIX or something had such an adjustable I/O encoding at least intended < 1203379753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial-idiotic way to do it: have a represent 0s and b represent ones, and put in a layer between that and PSOX < 1203379759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? < 1203379798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there was some blurb about the languages needing only some way to _represent_ the required range of numbers, anyhow < 1203379848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.. I suppose I could make a command line option, like -n < 1203379861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's trivial if external settings are used, but could the program actively ask for an encoding using its limited facilities? < 1203379869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n a would tell the interpreter to subtract ord('a') from each character except those escaped as output < 1203379893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, could it do that in that vague idea you were describing :P < 1203379900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to work on it ATM, but it's an idea < 1203379905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: for languages such as original INTERCAL which has only a _very_ limited I/O format, external settings seem necessary < 1203379950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in case nonsense is taken as a calibration sequence, i don't think they are necessary. < 1203379957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how limited is intercal? < 1203379972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh i still don't know much about it :| < 1203379979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roman numerals in one direction, explicit english words in the other, or something like that < 1203379993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203379997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good old intercal <3 < 1203380036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scary that there exist languages that PSOX doesn't currently support.. < 1203380114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but why english, why not sanscrit < 1203380145 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't write sanskrit on a keyboard! < 1203380169 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't? < 1203380171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write nulls on a keyboard: \x00\x00\x00\x00 < 1203380177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i recall a list of supported languages < 1203380191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of which were highly weird < 1203380245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can modern INTERCAL do PSOX? < 1203380267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does anyone want to write a decent IRC bot in BF+PSOX? < 1203380277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or INTERCAL+PSOX < 1203380277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203380310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: modern intercals have binary I/O extensions < 1203380317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, cool < 1203380323 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already sick, don't try to kill me Sgeo. < 1203380330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_, get well soon! < 1203380410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1203380410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: of course you can write sanskrit on a keyboard. the script is in UNICODE, and besides is also used for modern Hindi < 1203380420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, i never thought simulating a fibonacci heap manually could be this boring. < 1203380459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i ever get to teach a class, i'm gonna make 'em pay for this. decrease min WILL FUCKING RECURSE. < 1203380540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has simultaneously found the teacher AND the sadist in him. < 1203380607 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the child molester follow soon? < 1203380711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people in general dislike molesting so bad i don't think i'll ever try that. < 1203380738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some seem to think getting fucked is actually worse than getting beaten. < 1203380757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, some people listen to abba. < 1203380773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are different, in a sick way. < 1203380773 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you don't like ABBA? < 1203380781 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's worst than molesting children! < 1203380784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an example, but no, not really < 1203380811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not liking abba might be worse than molesting children, but i don't have to go to jail for it :) < 1203380831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203380834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1203380836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/utils/TEXT2BF.py < 1203380913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is that a generated generator? < 1203380917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda trivial. < 1203380919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, lol no < 1203380934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial? < 1203380950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... isn't it? < 1203380952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1203380955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1203380964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my head is full of dancing oklotrees right now < 1203380982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a combination of fibonacci trees and pure insanity < 1203380987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heaps < 1203380988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203381039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotrees, do not execute extract-min in O(log n), but they look EXPONENTIALLY COOL < 1203381044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see it < 1203381066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice place for a comma < 1203381286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was quite dissappointed though when the professor told fibonacci heaps are one of the weirdest :| < 1203381315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with math you always know you can take any sub-subject and there's always 30000 pages of material about it < 1203381341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want millions of weird heaps... < 1203381378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is obsessed, once again < 1203381682 0 :Corun|pants!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1203381735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol> my head is full of dancing oklotrees right now < 1203381738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol> they're a combination of fibonacci trees and pure insanity < 1203381750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets Cthulhu mythos associations < 1203381810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about cthulhuism < 1203381825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get pop culture a bit slow. < 1203381828 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mostly involves dissin' on niggas. < 1203381838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203381849 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Cthulhu is 90 years old. < 1203381853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: believe slereah_. that is safer than the real thing. < 1203381858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: you're one of my favorites :) < 1203381870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take or give a few dozen zeros < 1203381876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me of me < 1203381896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203381898 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203381902 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, Turing might have read some Cthulhu! < 1203381904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many zeroes to take < 1203381920 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you cound the invisible ones < 1203381923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*count < 1203381956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the insane ones! < 1203381971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAINTED ZEROES KILL KILL AOIFSDJTGO < 1203381975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, forget those. move on. nothing to see here. < 1203382063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1203382079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could make a BfEcho bot/ < 1203382097 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would it do! < 1203382110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, but I'd need to examine the text coming in from the socket < 1203382110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should make some generic tools for operating on trees, and make a program to randomize tree structures for me < 1203382125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no builtin IRC stuff, just sockets < 1203382129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be FUCKING HOT LAVA OH BABY YEAH < 1203382139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope lament isn't awake. < 1203382148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why? < 1203382171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lament is the banbot of this channel, "fuck" triggers it < 1203382186 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you lament < 1203382189 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203382193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also flooding and ascii penises. < 1203382193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that can't be serious, you'd be banned if you were < 1203382202 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8===D < 1203382203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1203382203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah; he just has the bot to say 'OMG you said fuck' < 1203382206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck on < 1203382210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck. < 1203382217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess he disabled it. < 1203382217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just assume everyone is always kidding ;) < 1203382352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know quite what to answer when an ex girlfriend tells you they brought a dildo with 10 different vibration modes. < 1203382366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should share more, ppl, this is great < 1203382372 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can I try it?" < 1203382378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203382379 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis is the one with the bot < 1203382388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she'll prolly suggest that anyway < 1203382392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, megoes -> < 1203382394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1203382401 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bai. < 1203382416 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq probably swears more than oklopol, though when oklopol swears its in a tightly concentrated space < 1203382421 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just swear all the fucking time < 1203382434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I also curse multilingually. < 1203382443 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That must be..interesting < 1203382446 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly swear for the fuckarous fuck of it < 1203382465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 different modes? is this a dildo or a musical instrument? < 1203382469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do I swear? Almost never? < 1203382487 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Never. < 1203382487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(could be a combination of course) < 1203382488 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you combine them? < 1203382501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what i wondered too... i'm fairly sure the human pussy only distinguishes like 3... < 1203382502 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe find the resonance frequency of your prostate or something! < 1203382506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well I swore just before, after the mention of lament.. < 1203382518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And now, Beethovens' Fifth, in the key of C, on the Dildo." < 1203382570 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1203382579 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could hook it up to your computer, and connect it to some game. < 1203382612 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TEN THOUSAND POINTS, ONE ORGASM" < 1203382741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure how to test server sockets < 1203383611 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bans slereah_  < 1203383619 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noooooes < 1203384284 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203384294 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: fuck < 1203384363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my punishment shall be swift < 1203384371 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, er, horrible < 1203384446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will cry like a japanese schoolgirl being raped by a giant radioactive octopus < 1203384476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be _rewarding_ oklopol though < 1203384593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that the tentacle rape was actually a high honor? < 1203384687 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna find out? < 1203384712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wiggles his tentacles < 1203384744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scratches out lament's species on his #esoteric score card < 1203385028 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant "his or her tentacles", of course < 1203385036 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203385077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, just two possible sexes? < 1203385097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't bother scratching out "home planet", then. < 1203385220 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"his or her" is one sex! < 1203385298 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1203385310 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone < 1203385320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: quick < 1203385323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must escape < 1203385330 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1203385332 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is raping everyone with his or her tentacles < 1203385336 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203385360 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read about the radioactive octapus and i really loled... < 1203385362 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203385426 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i updated the brainfuck algorithms page on the wiki < 1203385447 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be really happy if someone checked if the update is ok. :-) < 1203385600 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often does calamari log in here?? < 1203385661 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough that I can remember him < 1203385724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er i don't think it was _that_ long ago he was here? < 1203385772 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: you prefer to be raped by squid? < 1203385844 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, i am reallllllyyyy drunk right now so i am not even sure what a squid is < 1203385857 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: the same animal as "calamari" < 1203385864 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i think it is that ocapus like thing that spits ink < 1203385886 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes... and calamari is a greek word too < 1203385892 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should now... :-D < 1203385903 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was here yesterday < 1203385906 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1203385920 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: dsof, slo utiua? < 1203385928 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we talked yesterday about that 1 byte / array cell table implementation i made < 1203385936 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, WTF? < 1203385940 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: oh. i see thn..e < 1203385985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trinioo_t: So, whtear euaf i? < 1203385990 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari told me to update the esolang wiki with the new algo... but i want to know if i must do something with calamari's implementation on the same page < 1203386006 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Airu. Ajgfunp, xkauf. ua. < 1203386018 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, lol < 1203386030 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever... maybe i must go to sleep..... < 1203386031 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: Auuee! If you kanu, tigo aodi. < 1203386048 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuuu... nigGOODhtt < 1203386054 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1203386054 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sopaof ubnajd. < 1203386057 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fo. < 1203386061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I agrue. You puroesj trjacgr. < 1203386062 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diaoc oasirng ioaisd. < 1203386073 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Delight of Turkishness" < 1203386086 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[->+<]<[->+<]<[->+<]>-] < 1203386087 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>[-]<[->+<]< < 1203386087 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[-<+>]<<<[->>>>+<<<<]>>-]<< < 1203386088 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: scose daneroush rcga? < 1203386101 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a REAL language? < 1203386110 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or jist ehird'ish? < 1203386112 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: It's enlgirs.. < 1203386130 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c i oh < 1203386161 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enoyreve thgin doog yawyna < 1203386168 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyb < 1203386177 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)-: < 1203386178 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reebyebe < 1203386181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: ??? Irua. I dnot udnajrtsnd ua. < 1203386192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: LIES. y nt befol skwat. < 1203386204 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: GC! < 1203386212 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i splipli dnot ndagerstand u < 1203386226 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Auu, I dnta thnkgi I will undnernstnd thtat for lngo.. < 1203386240 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will someone Ckeck the UwPiDkAiTE < 1203386241 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203386264 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhapsody are simply perfect < 1203386265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you drunk or what? You're talking nonsense. < 1203386270 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1203386277 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jglu? < 1203386281 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :em < 1203386290 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loipon tha arxiso kai ego na milao ellinika < 1203386300 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giati poly moy ta priksate an kai exo psofisei sta geleia < 1203386319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: lkos fin to me < 1203386321 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aufu... iaminitan, AWESOME!!! < 1203386321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perdon, yo no hablo chino < 1203386332 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kala den pame kala edo mesa.... < 1203386335 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xaxaxaxa < 1203386354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nå går det over alle støvleskaft her < 1203386357 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oloi oi kamenoi toy eleytherokomboy se ena domatio < 1203386365 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamato < 1203386376 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kalinixta kayles < 1203386380 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=goodnight < 1203386386 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wuaut? Drnkju, I think you arear. ... you don't smem to be ablkgl to undasnernst su..... < 1203386386 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1203386388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag alska bananer < 1203386400 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuo shdoul go tobde.. < 1203386404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: älskar < 1203386438 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's nonsense filter log's him out automaticaly. < 1203386455 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: we are all european here? < 1203386483 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm Pacific. < 1203386490 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm from the moon. < 1203386495 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what;s that? < 1203386496 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamen < 1203386498 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament < 1203386504 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a small rock around the earth < 1203386514 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in the Pacific ocean. < 1203386518 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know about the moon. my grandma was from there < 1203386525 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, i c < 1203386537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: don't be ridiculous. the earth is far too large for a small rock to fit around it. < 1203386554 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: We couldn't trick you. < 1203386555 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203386562 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, SDOING < 1203386569 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol < 1203386571 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203386578 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you 2morrooooooooooooooow < 1203386594 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think he meant inside, not around < 1203386640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203386671 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a complicated system of mirrors which makes it appear in the sky < 1203386799 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the moon conspiracy. < 1203386815 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man didn't land on the moon, he fell on it. < 1203387714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm American < 1203387737 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203387740 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203387748 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Who asked? < 1203387755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PS: we are all european here? < 1203387768 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203387824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso.b < 1203387828 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203387828 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. I wrote this BF program with the help of a horrible horrible generator I wrote. < 1203387828 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203387925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m6f8e6cdc < 1203388021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a more readable version: http://pastebin.com/m58f2748 < 1203388436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION modifies the generator to take the scripts in a simpler form and also to automatically add linebreaks < 1203388865 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203389833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder if I can make a text generator that uses up N number of cells < 1203390215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is too lazy < 1203390223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 packets transmitted, 2 received, 90% packet loss, time 21014ms < 1203390228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone out there hates me. < 1203390263 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you going to try sockets? < 1203390267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sockets are working now >.> < 1203390272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tested them in here < 1203390279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, writing to sockets < 1203390287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tested server sockets or UDP or anything < 1203390295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I might need to add a function < 1203391483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, I've connected to IRC in Brainfuc < 1203391487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck < 1203392980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes pikhq  < 1203392987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, File domain thoughts: < 1203393002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directories gotten by the equiv. of LS are represented as FDs < 1203393013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except seeking is per file < 1203393035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first byte in each entry is whether the entry is a file or a directory < 1203393206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you alive? oerjan, GregorR? < 1203393221 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm undead. < 1203393223 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's close enough. < 1203393233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!(dead) < 1203393244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not NOT dead. < 1203393252 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNdead < 1203393261 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be represented by simple boolean logic. < 1203393277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, then. < 1203393303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum gregor {DEAD, NOTDEAD, UNDEAD}; < 1203393304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my scheme ok? < 1203393309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will call it, Gregorian logic. < 1203393324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I have directories separate from the FD scheme? < 1203393329 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Idonno, are you coming from Elisp or CL? < 1203393341 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hyuck hyuck hyuck) < 1203393406 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, rather than having a readdir call, you just have a stream of data in a predefined pattern? < 1203393447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRAINS... < 1203393491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, I think it is a readdir call of sorts.. < 1203394146 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394146 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394146 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394149 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394149 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394151 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394151 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394152 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394152 0 :Overand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394152 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394152 0 :johnl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394153 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394153 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394153 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394154 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203394210 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-202-40.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-144.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :Overand!i=overand@dissociative.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :johnl!i=johnl@johnl.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394210 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r11snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203394332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ev5rn'slive? < 1203394344 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1203394365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u should srr me now in my seat < 1203395136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sits back up in his chair < 1203395490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, pikhq GregorR should the mkdir function fail if there's already such a directory, or not? < 1203397803 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@cpc1-stkn2-0-0-cust786.midd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203397842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Asztal < 1203397857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch this: < 1203397865 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1203397871 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203397871 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. I wrote this BF program with the help of a horrible horrible generator I wrote. < 1203397871 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203397899 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm intrigued. < 1203397919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At a BF program going online? < 1203397957 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Does it have its input/output hooked up to a socket? < 1203397997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite < 1203398004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a thing called PSOX < 1203398011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX < 1203398023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently has sockets < 1203398051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, sockets and HTTP < 1203398073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will also soon support file access < 1203398119 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-139.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203398155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi immibis. Did you see my latest PSOX demo? < 1203398188 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. i'm not interested in psox. < 1203398245 0 :BrainF!n=BrainF@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203398245 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. I wrote this BF program with the help of a horrible horrible generator I wrote. < 1203398245 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203398333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to change the program I but. < 1203398336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1203398349 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203398479 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203398479 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203398479 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203398488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1203398588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it so slow? < 1203398590 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need psox for that. "mkfifo irc_fifo; bf irc_bot.bf < irc_fifo | nc irc.freenode.net 6667 > irc_fifo" < 1203398600 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's brainfuck? < 1203398641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: But that's not what he's doing. < 1203398682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's got a fancy API. ;) < 1203398688 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't. but he doesn't need psox to connect to a remote server, send commands, and read responses. < 1203398714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, for the client to choose the server, yes it does < 1203398737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say, hypothetically, he wrote an IRC client in Brainfuck. < 1203398748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is quite possible, if you're sufficiently insane). < 1203398758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you be more impressed with that? < 1203398781 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: I'm sure that could be done with a bash script too. < 1203398794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, but I'm doing it with Brainfuck < 1203398834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean BF controlling the server < 1203398839 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkfifo irc_fifo; bf irc_bot.bf < irc_fifo > >( read server port ; nc $server $port > irc_fifo) < 1203398847 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203398847 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203398847 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203398862 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it work when I have the nickname be BrainF but not SgBrainfuck? < 1203398873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erroneous nickname < 1203398918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The script for BrainF: http://pastebin.com/d51adfde7 < 1203398954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first line is PSOX-Init < 1203398958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second line: < 1203398971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x08 0x00 represents calling function 0x00 in domain 0x08 < 1203398987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0x00 after that represents TCP v. UDP < 1203398997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x1A 0x0B is the port < 1203399012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the next part is the address < 1203399015 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203399018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0x0A terminates all functions < 1203399033 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-139.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203399041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1203399045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and 0x0A terminates all functions < 1203399075 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last message i got from you was [18:27] oh, you mean BF controlling the server < 1203399087 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what you meant by that tho < 1203399226 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 0x00 0x02 0x10 0x04? < 1203399230 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, gtg < 1203399232 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203399236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye immibis < 1203399278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For anyone who wants to read in the logs: the function 0x10 in domain 0x02 switches where output goes to. In this case, we're switching to 0x04 because that's where the "file descriptor" for the socket was made < 1203399285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x04 was the first available FD slot < 1203399318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 is current outFD, 0x01 is current inFD, 0x02 is stdout, 0x03 is stdin < 1203399331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the next lines simply output the necessary commands < 1203399383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my guess is "fuck" is censored in nicknames < 1203399400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1203399589 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203399589 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203399589 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203400662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I really should go to sleep now < 1203400910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1203402244 0 :devicenull!n=devicenu@rh-laureln-cs1-129-122.njit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203402262 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203402262 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203402262 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203402302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203402302 0 :habnabit!n=habnabit@cust-65-98-205-68.static.o1.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203402316 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203402316 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203402316 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203402331 0 :devicenull!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203402341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The script that I fed to the generator is at http://pastebin.com/d51adfde7 < 1203402488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get going now < 1203404017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203405650 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203406282 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1203406558 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1203407999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203408000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203408097 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203408540 0 :Sukoshi`!n=Blah@user-3cf84np.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203408561 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1203408762 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203408776 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203408791 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone here enough of a loser to go on Direct Connect networks? < 1203410287 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203412219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: i'm enough of a loser for that < 1203412226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have other reasons not to go on them < 1203412558 0 :habnabit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203413029 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering because I'm writing a DC client. < 1203417623 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to. < 1203417635 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, it's now not very useful. < 1203417851 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to longz agoz. < 1203417858 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 6-7 years ago. < 1203418863 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203419389 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc sucks... < 1203419847 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203420065 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1203420108 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The protocol was written by an HS student who used terms like $ValidateDenide and $LogedIn < 1203420218 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HS=? < 1203420224 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high school? < 1203420241 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it sucks because it's nothing new... it is server based < 1203420268 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no firewall2firewall conections.... < 1203420269 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1203420290 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High School. < 1203420293 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ? < 1203420300 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can a firewall connect to a firewall? < 1203420335 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firewall2firewall is in fact firewalled user to firewalled user. < 1203420348 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do passive connections. < 1203420349 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two users behind two firewalled router < 1203420368 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but with passive connections it is much slower < 1203420373 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The protocol itself has no basic firewall support, true, but. < 1203420395 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else would you propose to do it? Is opening a port that difficult? < 1203420408 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is imposible... :-( < 1203420413 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do not own the router < 1203420436 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't tunnel through SSH? < 1203420444 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even as a last resort, use an HTTP proxy. < 1203420465 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o how slow is this going to be? < 1203420496 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you mean to tunnel through SSH? < 1203420577 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google holds many of these answers. < 1203421149 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203421394 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't see how an SSH tunnel would help < 1203422904 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203423430 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203424251 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You SSH tunnel through an open port. < 1203424274 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just tell dc to use that port? < 1203424809 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1203424825 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an HTTP proxy works, which tunnels traffic through an HTTP port. < 1203424843 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if the route directs no port to your pc. < 1203424850 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :router* < 1203424866 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the case normally < 1203424873 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't access the internet at all? < 1203424884 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? of course you can < 1203424908 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can connect to everyone else. but nobody else can connect to you. < 1203424915 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't pass outgoing/incoming traffic through port 80, then what? < 1203424953 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A port works two ways, source and destination. A typical firewall allows you to use a port as a source port, but not use it as a destination port. < 1203424966 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am talking about routers. < 1203424967 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However you cannot do that with port 80, because it is an HTTP port. < 1203424979 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The router uses a firewall ... the difference is the same. < 1203424990 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can close all ports on my router and still access the internet < 1203424997 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there will be no incoming connections < 1203425020 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make an outgoing connection using any local port even if the router has all ports closed < 1203425028 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for incoming connections) < 1203425035 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means the router is being smart and allowing an HTTP connection to work synchronously, but now allowing one directional connections to occur. < 1203425054 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1203425065 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A router can't perform magic. It has to do something with ports. < 1203425076 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no option in the IP RFC that says "block a port but let traffic through". < 1203425083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously for tunneling you keep an outgoing connection open, which is still two-way for data < 1203425116 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an HTTP proxy, the connection looks just like a typical HTTP connection. A server is connected to, data is requested, more data is sent back, data is further requested, etc. < 1203425127 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the router is a network node. if you try to connect to someone's router on port 60 (4eg) it will have to forward this connection to some internal ip:port < 1203425140 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1203425156 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203425173 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens if no redirections have been setup? < 1203425185 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internal network still has access to the internet, right? < 1203425186 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1203425189 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1203425195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: you don't try to connect to someone's firewalled router. you allow them to connect to you, or you both connect to a server which does the tunneling. < 1203425212 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data is transmitted outgoing or incoming. < 1203425259 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that's what i am saying. if you haven't setup and redirections then you cannot access a pc in an internal network until it makes a connections to you < 1203425290 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the theory behind this? Data can go out of a device and into a device. < 1203425298 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the pc behind the router connects to you, you can transmit and recieve data < 1203425306 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way a router works is that, data is redirected. < 1203425322 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wait. i < 1203425331 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when you make an HTTP connection, you send the text "GET / HTTP/1.0". This data is sent out and transmitted via the router to the server of choice. < 1203425341 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll close all redirections in my router, and UPnP too. ok? < 1203425358 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The router then sends back a response, the HTML code, and this is intercepted by the router, and then sent back to you. < 1203425365 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to you. i will not be able to talk here afterwards? < 1203425377 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice that you have an asynchronous connection here. Data is being transmitted one way and received another. < 1203425404 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: Not neccessarily, your router could be smart (which is very normal) and if a connection is made first from a requesting machine, that connection can be allowed into the clear by the router. < 1203425419 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop treating the router as a black box. "The router can do x" is not an explanation. < 1203425438 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't get it. < 1203425445 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i disconnect from the chat < 1203425454 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cancel all redirections. < 1203425461 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will i be able to reconnect? < 1203425466 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i say yes) < 1203425470 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your machine sends a SYN packet to the router dest. the IRC server < 1203425487 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The router sees the SYN packet, and adds the connection to a connection table, then routes the SYN packet out to the server. < 1203425496 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1203425499 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server sends back a response, SYN/ACK. < 1203425506 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1203425515 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The router then cross-references the SYN/ACK with its connection table. If it finds an entry, it lets this through to you. < 1203425527 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does not, the packet gets dumped into /dev/null. < 1203425528 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203425542 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there will be a connection. < 1203425562 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So an HTTP tunnel works exactly this way. It creates an outgoing connection, and sends the traffic through this. The proxy then is in charge of handling all the traffic with the external server. < 1203425588 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an outgoing connection to who? < 1203425595 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the proxy. < 1203425610 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1203425614 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C <-> P <-> S (C: Client, P: Proxy, S: Server.) < 1203425618 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i am behind a router < 1203425627 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you are behind a router. < 1203425639 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we use the http proxy to communicate? < 1203425678 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'll give the simple explanation and leave for the night (it's 4:52 AM here): Because for all intents and purposes, an HTTP proxy connection looks the same as any HTTP connection. < 1203425690 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203425711 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you do some IP reading in the mean time to get an understanding of it. < 1203425718 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203425804 0 :faxathisia!n=ultravio@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203425828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Too much noise" < 1203426031 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody here? < 1203426064 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: < 1203426114 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was i wrong about the HTTP proxy not been helpful if both routers (NATs) do not redirect incoming connections to the two users that want to communicate??? < 1203428727 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203428791 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203429410 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203429540 0 :ehird`_!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203429562 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203429683 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realised what a good curse 'Bjarne, stroustroup!' is < 1203429696 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bjarne sounds like a foreign insult and 'stroustroup' sounds like..well, stroustroup < 1203429700 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[note: spelling may suck] < 1203430703 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a glass debugger < 1203430764 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that constitute a wimpmode? I don't think Gregor would approve < 1203431503 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw02-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203431635 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: No, not really... < 1203431640 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be edlin-style < 1203431648 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203431650 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would execute a line at a time < 1203431664 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' would execute the line, then print out the next one < 1203431676 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd have a command to print out the stack in an inscrutable format < 1203431679 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe make it use commands that are rot13ed to make it harder to memorize? < 1203431682 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add about 3 or 4 more commands and you've got the glass debugger < 1203431690 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: all one character < 1203431694 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with seemingly no relation to what they do < 1203431698 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just like Glass!) < 1203431774 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1203431948 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Is cpkt yours? < 1203431953 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ckpt < 1203431957 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in egobot tree < 1203431963 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because JB_SP is undefined < 1203432025 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep JB_SP * < 1203432025 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem.c: jbuf[0].__jmpbuf[JB_SP] = stack_base; < 1203433332 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203433336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1203433348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testy < 1203433350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testy4 < 1203433363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fooby < 1203433365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203434450 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1203434813 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird :( < 1203434829 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: xD < 1203434887 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code kind of sucks but I don't really care because it works < 1203434896 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/QEsaFY55.txt < 1203434917 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this puts every bf program in a list and runs them all.. extracting the ones that terminate < 1203434941 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ... I run it for like half an hour and there isn't any good output < 1203434949 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just \0\1\0 and stuff < 1203435108 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sucks! < 1203435118 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making shortest programs in VERY hard < 1203435929 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do when it generates []? < 1203435970 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually filter out any programs with [] because there's always an equivalent shorter program or it gets stuck < 1203435984 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not stuck.. but infinite loop < 1203435999 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is an infinite loop .. I just keep evaluating it forever < 1203436024 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lots of programs are run in parralel < 1203436129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: do you filter other infinite loops? < 1203436142 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203436167 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I filter any redundancy like +- <> >< -+ .. < 1203436193 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any expression that isn't well parenthesized but that's it < 1203436234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a balanced loopie, it's very simple to check whether conditions have changed after a cycle < 1203436241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1203436248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :".."? < 1203436287 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program could be made more sophisticated but I run it for ages and it didn't produce anything < 1203436301 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this whole approach is just too slow < 1203436334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ofc it's slow < 1203436424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're actually trying to do something? < 1203436462 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the aim is find the shortest possible programs to print given strings, < 1203436477 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I know this is impossible but it's still worth trying < 1203436490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're a lunatic if you think that approach could work :D < 1203436505 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehee < 1203436538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going for more than 4 characters < 1203436905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you filtering out expressions that don't end in . followed by some number of ]s? < 1203436954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may also be able to optimise, at least if you restrict your search to loops with balanced <>, by compiling into some other language first < 1203437511 0 :habnabit!n=habnabit@cust-65-98-205-68.static.o1.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203438096 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1203438099 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was i going to say? < 1203438100 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot. < 1203438111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is incapable of reading ehird`_'s mind < 1203438132 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell separates Church and state! < 1203438229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203438284 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wrote a haskell program that makes ghc use 100% cpu and never halt < 1203438289 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i beat the typechecker. < 1203438295 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc, it is non-decidable) < 1203438308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Loop in the flow analysis" was one of my favourite Prolog compiler error messages < 1203438316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I never ran the compiler, just read the manual < 1203438320 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Really? I preferred '42'. < 1203438329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was your compiler-breaking program? < 1203438335 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SWI-Prolog outputs '42' if you tell it to do something impossible, like 'X.') < 1203438380 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/5758 < 1203438481 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1203438482 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugs halts on it < 1203438484 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a type error < 1203438494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out what pred is trying to do < 1203438503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many arguments would it normally be called with? < 1203438515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the name, I'm guessing it subtracts one from its argument, so 1 < 1203438541 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. this is church numeral stuff. < 1203438551 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't personally understand 'pred', to be honest < 1203438556 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see the type thouhg: < 1203438558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predecessor < 1203438570 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((t -> t2) -> (t2 -> t3) -> t3) -> (t4 -> t1) -> (t5 -> t5) -> t6) -> t -> t1 -> t6 < 1203438573 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i know what 'pred' stands for < 1203438577 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't understand the definition < 1203438578 0 :uvanta!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203438581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I misinterpreted your comment < 1203438589 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Expression : dechurch < 1203438589 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Expected type : ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> Integer < 1203438589 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Inferred type : ((((a -> a) -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a) -> ((a -> a) -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a) -> Integer < 1203438665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your implementation of dechurch is inefficient < 1203438696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dechurch n = n (1+) 0 < 1203438808 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was doing it purely < 1203438823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, your implementation is probably wrong, because comparing functions is uncomputable < 1203438837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can hardly expect the compiler to match functions based on Church number equality < 1203438863 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, we'll see what it does < 1203438863 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203438864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'dechurch zero' pattern won't match a Church numeral unless it's a literal 'zero' or you're lucky, even if the Church numeral has the value 0 < 1203438926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if the recursive definition 'succ n = n succ one' would work, or whether it would confuse the compiler < 1203438941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it would work in Haskell, because it looks like an infinite loop < 1203438953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a slim chance that laziness might save it < 1203438984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is an infinite loop, because 'succ one' ends up being defined to be 'succ one' < 1203438985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1203439014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would work in that uncomputable language I was talking about yesterday, if written as Succ(N)=N(Succ(One)) < 1203439040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder if that would give more than one solution for Succ... < 1203439067 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203439111 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: succ one = ...; succ n = n succ one < 1203439123 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203439125 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ n | n == one < 1203439127 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203439135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't compare functions with == < 1203439140 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1203439140 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: < 1203439141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with anything else, for that matter < 1203439156 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ n | dechurch n == 1 = two < 1203439157 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = n succ one < 1203439167 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1203439171 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need Integer -> Integer stuff < 1203439174 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to do a newtype < 1203439181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1203439196 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the type system doesn't like it, y'see < 1203439197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ two = two succ one = succ (succ one) = succ two = ... < 1203439218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so defining succ recursively, although mathematically true, doesn't really help a computer < 1203439239 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, newtype Church a = Church ((a -> a) -> a -> a) is problematic < 1203439243 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need < 1203439246 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = Church a < 1203439248 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: < 1203439252 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class time < 1203439268 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Church a < 1203439269 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Church a) => Church ((a -> a) -> a -> a) < 1203439270 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i think < 1203439277 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1203439287 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this idea < 1203439308 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although is it valid? < 1203439315 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao: < 1203439316 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Churchy Church ... < 1203439383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so much simpler in Underload/Underlambda < 1203439387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero is !() < 1203439390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is < 1203439393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two is :* < 1203439394 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that strongly typed? < 1203439397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three is ::** < 1203439399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1203439403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: not exactly < 1203439407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just the one type, function < 1203439419 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'xactly < 1203439419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each function maps a stack of functions to another stack of functions < 1203439432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strong typing messes up sii quite badly < 1203439440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ability of sii is needed to write loops < 1203439466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I suppose you could say it was strongly typed, except with just the one type, defined recursively as type = [type]->[type] < 1203439476 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to write sii using lets? < 1203439500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a way to do that < 1203439502 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can get Y using a let < 1203439508 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just guessing.. < 1203439509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the naive definition is sii X = X X < 1203439510 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: not in haskell < 1203439519 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: proof? < 1203439525 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: it doesn't type < 1203439528 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = a -> a < 1203439529 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y types < 1203439529 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1203439534 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y f = f (y f) < 1203439534 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1203439537 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not y < 1203439537 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does.... < 1203439539 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT Y < 1203439541 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is... < 1203439547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two Ys < 1203439552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lazy version and an eager version < 1203439559 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that is neither < 1203439562 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y is a COMBINATOR < 1203439567 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #haskell are informing you now, faxathisia < 1203439574 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they aren't :P < 1203439589 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU are a combinator! < 1203439600 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203439610 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i haven't seen him justify his belief as of yet. < 1203439611 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1203439634 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: http://r6.ca/blog/20060919T084800Z.html < 1203439639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a combinator can be a function < 1203439643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id is a combinator, after all < 1203439646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also a function < 1203439657 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: Yeah, I've seen that < 1203439671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y g = g (Y g), according to Wikipedia < 1203439691 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not y. < 1203439703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a quote < 1203439712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y = λf·(λx·f (x x)) (λx·f (x x)) < 1203439726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how you defined it without using the argument in terms of lambdas < 1203439771 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203440083 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Church a = ((a -> a) -> a -> a) < 1203440083 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Churchy a < 1203440083 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Churchy Church < 1203440322 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/5759 getting there < 1203440373 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203440389 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203440404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Churchy" == "something that acts kind of like a Church numeral or its argument"? < 1203440415 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'Churchy' == 'a church numeral' < 1203440419 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, < 1203440432 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only arguments to church numerals are (ChurchNumeral -> ChurchNumeral) and another ChurchNumeral < 1203440432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but church numerals can be applied to non-church-numeral arguments < 1203440441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the (1+) I gave as an example above < 1203440444 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not if we want everything to type properly.. < 1203440451 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway -- so we have a recursive type, so we need that class hack < 1203440459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1203440468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typechecker strikes again < 1203440474 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no < 1203440477 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the sane type system < 1203440486 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything more and you could get full polymorphism < 1203440489 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need type 'a = a -> a' < 1203440494 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the type of all lambda expressions < 1203440496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it gets in the way if you want to do Unlambda-style pure functional programming < 1203440515 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, they thought that real programs were more important < 1203440518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that leads to infinite types with ease < 1203440519 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea why < 1203440524 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we have data types :P < 1203440529 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: :) < 1203440542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware that the typechecker is useful in practice < 1203440552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really annoying in theory < 1203440571 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory a typechecker needn't exist < 1203440582 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, it's great < 1203440585 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well .. you have to do the proofs yourself < 1203440591 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the sweet spot for usability and ... well, computability < 1203440609 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church numerals are 'weird' anyway... i would say that a type system not including them is not odd < 1203440610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing the typechecker wouldn't make the language uncomputable... < 1203440624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda is computable, and so is lambda calculus < 1203440640 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, duh < 1203440643 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have no types... < 1203440646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, though, the main point of Church numerals in practice is to give a simple way to write loops < 1203440646 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell is designed to be strongly typed < 1203440660 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ehird; mean that typechecking is computable? < 1203440677 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ :: Churchy a => ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1203440678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I want to print something out 6 tiems < 1203440679 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't :( < 1203440718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then with the monad chaining argument explicit, it would just be a case of writing six (printChained "Hello") InitialIOChain < 1203440733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where printChain has the type String -> IOChain -> IOChain < 1203440743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the IOChain is the underlying chaining element inside the monad < 1203440762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, Haskell doesn't let you access that directly, because it would allow you to fork timelines, which is just weird < 1203440821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-monad example: to make 12 copies of the string "test", I need only do '(church 12) (++"test") ""' < 1203440824 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can access the io chain < 1203440825 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ghc. < 1203440828 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... magical < 1203440830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1203440840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would at least be better for my sanity than unsafePerformIO < 1203440847 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype IO a < 1203440847 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : = GHC.IOBase.IO (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #)) < 1203440847 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Defined in GHC.IOB < 1203440856 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# ... #) is strictness annotations, btw < 1203440861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RealWorld being the IO chain, presumably < 1203440900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happens when you deliberately fork it? < 1203440900 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: segfault, i assume < 1203440903 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask in #ghc or #haskell < 1203440907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'd ever do something that evil in practice < 1203440908 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the important thing < 1203440915 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that with this IO, you can define IOT < 1203440916 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... < 1203440928 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type TwoDucks = IOT Cont < 1203440945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was having similar thoughts in my megaProlog < 1203440956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucksness falls out naturally from the syntax < 1203440982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no time travel involved, just starting with the (infinite) set of all possible timelines and eliminating them until only a few are left at the end of the program < 1203441031 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww damn, ais523 -- < 1203441035 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dechurch :: Church a -> Integer < 1203441037 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't type < 1203441040 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dechurch :: Church Integer -> Integer < 1203441040 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does < 1203441042 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously < 1203441047 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can't "dechurch one" < 1203441060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about my dechurch definition? < 1203441067 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using yours < 1203441068 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dechurch (Church n) = n (1+) 0 < 1203441074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably won't type the way you've defined the typeclasses < 1203441091 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1203441097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem is that all the Church numerals have different types < 1203441123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for instance, one would be a -> a in an ideal world < 1203441151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two would be (a -> b AND b -> c) -> (a -> c) < 1203441165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three would be (a -> b AND b -> c AND c -> d) -> (a -> d) < 1203441191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ANDs in types are apparently not allowed, even though I've wanted to use them in RL before < 1203441231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two three would be allowed; its type signature would even tell you that the result was six! < 1203441242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to thing of it, succ and pred would likely be fine too < 1203441334 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've decided type-level church numerals are far more fun. < 1203441374 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Zero < 1203441374 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Succ a < 1203441396 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203441396 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peanos < 1203441650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: I have no problem with Church numerals, succ, and dechurch typing for me < 1203441666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they type as (a -> a) -> a -> a, which is likely the best that Haskell can do < 1203441688 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the problems come later < 1203441693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ :: ((b -> c) -> a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c < 1203441700 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, type-levels are so fun < 1203441703 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have < 1203441704 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succ = const undefined < 1203441708 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just define the type < 1203441727 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that haskell's type system (well, with 1 or 2 extensions turned on) can have SK embedded in it?? < 1203441744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't get sii in the lang itself < 1203441748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can get sii in its type system < 1203441751 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can get it in the type system. < 1203441751 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1203441756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the type system itself isn't typechecked so strictly < 1203441759 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1203441769 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can't get it without the 2 extensions < 1203441772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says a lot about Haskell's typechecker < 1203441776 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one is -XUndecidableInstances < 1203441782 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to be honest, you're really saying 'LET ME DO THIS' < 1203441823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, of course, something that doesn't allow undecidable types is hardly going to allow TC types < 1203441830 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's how you use peano-types: > :t pred (undefined :: (Succ Zero)) < 1203441836 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should give you: < 1203441844 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pred (undefined :: (Succ Zero)) :: Zero < 1203441867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the real test will be if you can multiply and divide them < 1203441873 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pred :: Succ a -> a < 1203441873 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pred = const undefined < 1203441877 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course you can. < 1203441884 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a fscking *type-level quicksort* < 1203441901 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, with that definition of pred < 1203441905 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get (pred Zero) checking for free < 1203441920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I was wondering about if it was possible with that sort of simple definition < 1203441927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how complicated the type signature needed would be < 1203441955 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also worth noting is that its impossible to get the type into a haskell Integer < 1203441956 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203441964 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a Show instance < 1203441966 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then read that < 1203441966 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203441982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only gets you a finite number of possible outputs, right? < 1203441999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, you should define Show to output ASCII chars rather than integers < 1203442006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have BF-style IO < 1203442025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and write atoi in the type system < 1203442025 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Show Zero where show = const "0" < 1203442025 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Show (Succ a) where show = const ("S" ++ show (undefined :: a)) < 1203442025 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, does not actually work < 1203442025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, itoa < 1203442147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`_: what goes wrong? < 1203442159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the underscore on your nick? < 1203442162 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, if you add (Show a) => Show (Succ a): < 1203442172 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/calc.hs:13:20: < 1203442172 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1203442172 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Show a' < 1203442172 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `show' at /home/ehird/calc.hs:13:20-33 < 1203442172 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) < 1203442185 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and: < 1203442187 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use 'ehird' now (got it back) < 1203442191 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehird` was when ehird was cracked < 1203442194 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i crashed before < 1203442197 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving a ghost < 1203442199 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: ehird`_ < 1203442209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1203442227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show a might not be enough < 1203442232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about (Show a, Peano a)? < 1203442239 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define 'Peano a' < 1203442241 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing < 1203442246 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 'data Zero' and 'data Succ a' < 1203442257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so Zero and Succ are different data types < 1203442270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for fun, what happens if you say "deriving Show"? < 1203442280 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they have no constructors. < 1203442287 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would therefore do nothing < 1203442292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1203442302 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1203442302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while I thought you were using the constructors to do your Peano arithmetic < 1203442304 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can use my pred function < 1203442309 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be runtime < 1203442318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, it would be < 1203442322 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you do 5*2 in this, it's worked out at compile-time. < 1203442328 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a value of type (Succ^10 Zero) < 1203442340 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value itself is just 'undefined' as some value so it's pretty opaque < 1203442377 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> undefined :: Succ (Succ Zero) < 1203442377 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SS0 < 1203442385 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Show Zero where < 1203442385 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show _ = "0" < 1203442385 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Show a => Show (Succ a) where < 1203442385 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show a = "S" ++ show (pred a) < 1203442582 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to implement the µ function? < 1203442595 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a general way to do it. < 1203442613 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1203442666 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, for general recursive functions. µy f(y, x1, x2, x3, ...) = smallest value of y that makes the function vanish if it exists, 0 otherwise. < 1203442830 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heyyy, I just realised < 1203442834 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an instance for Eq on Succ a or Zero < 1203442838 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is const const True < 1203442842 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because.. < 1203442847 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== with two non-equal arguments, with that < 1203442850 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't type!! < 1203442863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Eq return false when it doesn't type < 1203442866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just error out < 1203442870 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it won't compile < 1203442877 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. you have compile-time assertations of numeric equality < 1203442878 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203442884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be more assert-equal rather than equal < 1203442886 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define an Eq type doing it properly < 1203442887 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1203442919 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for Plus i'll need a class... < 1203442923 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1203442926 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'plus' can't be a function itself < 1203442934 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must define a 'plus' class or something < 1203442939 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do the trick i did with pred/succ for a function < 1203443080 0 :habnabit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203443253 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: making this hs98 is hard < 1203443253 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203443276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a link to that type-system quicksort, by the way? < 1203443299 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1203443307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google seems not to help that much < 1203443325 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Type_arithmetic < 1203443329 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but please don't look at the numeric definitions < 1203443335 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to make sure mine are as different as possible < 1203443349 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1203443349 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Type_SK < 1203443354 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203443845 0 :ehird`_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203444168 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-5445797c.lns6-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203444205 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird` missed what? < 1203444219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comments between when you left and when you rejoined < 1203444223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in this channel < 1203444230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor either of the others I'm in < 1203444245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either of the others I'm all alone in, for that matter, since you left < 1203444252 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet awaited your return < 1203444288 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, i'm testing with hugs now < 1203444290 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without extensions < 1203444292 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ensure portability < 1203444360 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apart from plus/minus etc < 1203444364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you say is a good operation? < 1203444369 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since plus/minus are too hard, for now < 1203444369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for testing? < 1203444412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Church numerals, exponentiation is easier than plus, minus, times, or divide < 1203444413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Peano numbers are so well behaved, though < 1203444420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about mod-2 < 1203444426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty simple < 1203444449 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires comparison < 1203444450 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203444458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only to 0 and 1 < 1203444465 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so.. < 1203444628 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: crazy -- i'm writing a toPeano < 1203444632 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess, that might be impossible < 1203444635 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromPeano is easy < 1203444643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Peano a where < 1203444643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromPeano :: a -> Integer < 1203444643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Peano Zero where < 1203444643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromPeano _ = 0 < 1203444643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Peano a => Peano (Succ a) where < 1203444643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromPeano a = 1 + fromPeano (pred a) < 1203444647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you passing in as an argument to toPeano? < 1203444651 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Integer < 1203444654 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I think it's hard < 1203444658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly impossible < 1203444659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need run-time types. < 1203444664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Integer's value isn't known at compile time < 1203444667 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1203444746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a fromChurchToPeano instead < 1203444755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reads a Church numeral in SKK form... < 1203444758 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Churchs values aren't known at compile-time either < 1203444759 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203444768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement the Churches in types < 1203444777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier than implementing them as functions... < 1203444786 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mehh < 1203444812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually remarkably simple, because you just apply the Church numeral to succ and 0 < 1203445268 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am unsure if plus is possible with just hs98 < 1203445314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough Haskell typesystem stuff yet to be sure either < 1203445323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just busy on getting the Underlambda Tier 1 spec finished < 1203445358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly the Underload spec, except taht S has been relaxed to print out a serialisation of the code in the top stack element, rather than the source code of the top stack element < 1203445364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything's described in a lot more detail < 1203445382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I changed the quoting rules because everyone ignored them anyway < 1203445395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and added a magic word for the start of the program < 1203445455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the forbidden characters #!{} are avoided, all Underload interpreters are lenient conforming bounded Underlambda Tier 1 interpreters < 1203445497 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i just had an idea < 1203445502 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if haskell's typesystem is TC < 1203445506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what about a language with just a type system?! < 1203445549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it wouldn't really be a just-a-type-system lang < 1203445559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lang with untyped data < 1203445561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the types) < 1203445566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're using metatyping as well < 1203445569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1203445573 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turtles-all-the-way-down approach < 1203445584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have metakinds of metatypes! < 1203445643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and < 1203445646 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the values ARE needed < 1203445651 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a 'djinn'-alike is involved < 1203445653 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to do IO. < 1203445675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your IO chain is made of types rather than values < 1203445680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you could do input otherwise < 1203445687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is made up of types, yes. < 1203445688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the input would be runtime but the output compile-time... < 1203445698 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are right -- the chain is made up of types, then < 1203445700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if your IO chain is made of types you don't need the values < 1203445707 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you will < 1203445719 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making the type specify that the 'values' (dummies) depend on the previous 'values' (also dummies, but of just the right type) < 1203445749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could combine the dummy values with random operators that happened to have the right type signature < 1203445760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just plug some random dummy values in to see what happened < 1203445770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at runtime, after your program has already run < 1203445910 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1203445912 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203445913 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203445917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens is that < 1203445925 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find a variable of type '' < 1203445939 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must satisfy the constraints which amount to 'a line of input whicih is inputted RIGHT NOW' < 1203445942 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the compiler gets it < 1203445950 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the compiler is also a djinn) < 1203445955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then hardcodes that value into the output < 1203445960 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like a very clever djinn < 1203445962 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1203445966 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all IO happens at compile-time < 1203445971 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the final program is a no-op < 1203445980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed not necessary at all < 1203445982 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastebin.com/m64be26a5 this bash prompt is epic -- see http://reddit.com/info/697cu/comments/c037ztj < 1203446026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are bash prompts TC, like the rest of bash is? < 1203446039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, unless there's a way to loop < 1203446359 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: check the source fo that one < 1203446372 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses prompt_command < 1203446391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, but I don't understand it that much < 1203446411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be mostly switches so that it's portable to different terminal types < 1203446413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, bash lets you run a command for a prompt < 1203446495 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, i have an idea < 1203446505 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a prompt creation library < 1203446509 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called Epic $PS1 < 1203446518 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets you configure it emacs-style, and call various init functions on variables < 1203446520 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have it manage them < 1203446526 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so prompt creation is a lot easier < 1203446528 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's modular etc < 1203446532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your comment "also, i have an idea" reminded me of the adventure game in UMIX < 1203446540 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make a prompt whose colour was the last exit code converted to rgb < 1203446541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203446565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kept spouting stuff like "also, it is broken; it is missing a circuit board missing a (radio missing an antenna)" < 1203446590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that before long you would get bored and write a program to solve the puzzles, all of which were of the same nature and some of which were extremely long < 1203446591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203446611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umix= < 1203446628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing you interacted with in the 1006 ICFP < 1203446636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1203446639 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the ancient machine < 1203446639 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1203446641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203446660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they just give you some self-extracting bytecode containing most of the challenges and you have to write the VM yourself < 1203446661 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love icfp's award texts < 1203446684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever try, I recommend writing the VM in C, because it needs to be extremely fast < 1203446697 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, why? < 1203446702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a fast interp for it, but it assumes 32-bit pointers becaues it makes things simpler < 1203446713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: because even with my fast interp the self-extract took about an hour < 1203446732 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1203446732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a Perl interp originally, but I got bored before the program even finished the selfcheck < 1203446759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse, I had to run it twice, because I didn't have anything capturing stdout the first time < 1203446788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, I meant 2006, not 1006 < 1203446816 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1203446840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a similar note, does anyone know how to get past the wildcat in Lost Kingdoms? < 1203446846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm completely stumped < 1203446849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1203446852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people play that? < 1203446855 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wait until it starts. < 1203446859 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to test my interps. < 1203446864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done, but I'm stuck on the wildcat < 1203446870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing I do seems to work < 1203446883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go past it, because then it puts up a fake prompt and kills you whatever you type < 1203446885 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what should i call that turtle-types language? < 1203446887 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(logo? ;)) < 1203446889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no obvious way to kill it either? < 1203446906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I try, it just says "you can't see it clearly enough" or something similar < 1203446921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: write a brainfuck interp that lets you serialize+reload a tape & program counter < 1203446923 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll try < 1203446924 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203446933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard < 1203446946 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, then you have to play up to the wildcat and serialize. < 1203446947 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203446953 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd better be pretty quick; for lostkng < 1203446971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll find a fast opensource bf interpreter and modify it a bit < 1203447001 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bff.c < 1203447019 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say 'mine' but it isn't written yet < 1203447034 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203447038 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently http://mazonka.com/brainf/ is faster < 1203447046 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than http://swapped.cc/bf/ < 1203447050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which used to have a pretty design. odd < 1203447050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the one that comes with Lost Kingdoms < 1203447090 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's slow < 1203447095 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mazonka.com/brainf/ is a lot faster < 1203447099 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you're saving more state < 1203447100 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's important < 1203447116 0 :habnabit!n=habnabit@cust-65-98-205-68.static.o1.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203447120 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mazonka.com/brainf/bff4.c with -DLNR < 1203447227 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do i print up to something matching a regexp in ed? < 1203447243 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to edit some C with it :) < 1203447243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know ed < 1203447255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sed it would be 1../regexp/ p < 1203447262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ed often uses the same commands < 1203447263 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need ised < 1203447264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not always < 1203447265 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interactive sed < 1203447269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing that < 1203447271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in INTERCAL < 1203447279 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203447287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I shelved it after a while to work on other things < 1203447311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have been quite a torture-test for the backtracking code if I finished it < 1203447323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ken thompson's favourite editor used to be ed < 1203447326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was basically sed < 1203447345 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was sam (ed, but with a gui: a top, scrollable command window, and various file buffers below, which just display the current file) < 1203447348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that you could enter a blank line to cause everything since the last blank line to run as a self-contained program < 1203447355 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could use the mouse and everything to move around windows and stuff) < 1203447360 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he may have moved on to acme < 1203447361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was an extra command 'display on screen' < 1203447408 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, you don't want bff4 < 1203447411 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses dbfi input < 1203447423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't modify it anyway < 1203447427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no explicit license agreement < 1203447435 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are PARANOID < 1203447448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just like to stay legal < 1203447473 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am sure you could send off an email < 1203447478 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the esolang world, nobody cares < 1203447479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse, bff has an explicit "all rights reserved" < 1203447502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll stick to Lost Kingdom's interp < 1203447509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty responsive for me once it's loaded < 1203447587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * The program is distributed under terms of BSD license. < 1203447587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * You can obtain the copy of the license by visiting: < 1203447587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * < 1203447587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php < 1203447587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1203447589 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from < 1203447591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bff.c < 1203447606 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all rights reserved is just the readme < 1203447623 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hah < 1203447627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... nice misleading license < 1203447639 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well who cares, the source file says it's bsd -- that's what is important < 1203447655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me finish working on the Lost Kingdom's version, anyway, as I've done quite a bit on that already < 1203447676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok. but bff.c is crazy fast < 1203447733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs mandelbrot.b in 19sec on this old, crusty machine < 1203447757 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, do you think Epic $PS1 is a good idea? :P < 1203447764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203447770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use it but probably lots of people would < 1203447773 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1203447787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I might use it just to test for you, but I'm reasonably happy with my current boring default prompt < 1203447803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows (where I also run bash) my prompt is even more boring; I set it to a single $ < 1203447807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a space < 1203447843 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mostly, my prompt would be in the title < 1203447849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think two-line prompts are pretty good < 1203447850 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine: < 1203447854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1203447855 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ... < 1203447860 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where $ is a # when root < 1203447862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bold < 1203447871 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is red < 1203447873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should turn the entire line a different colour when you're root < 1203447877 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203447878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1203447889 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, gets coloured according to the last commands output < 1203447891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even if the command merely starts with sudo, if there's some way to do that < 1203447893 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're root, that's tinted red < 1203447906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, '1' might give dark gray on normal < 1203447909 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas 0 = blue < 1203447912 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on root < 1203447915 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'1' = dark crimson < 1203447916 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = red < 1203448035 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, i'm giong to take a hand at writing a fastfast brainfuck interp < 1203448042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it you're not interested? :-P < 1203448054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not immediately < 1203448060 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye..." < 1203448065 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, got that stateful interp yet? < 1203448072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost finished writing < 1203448084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably would have done by now if it weren't for constantly seeing why #esoteric is flashing at me < 1203448088 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203448123 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :( < 1203448146 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203448183 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, what about turtles < 1203448284 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct _turtle { < 1203448285 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct _turtle *metatype; < 1203448285 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct _turtle *type; < 1203448285 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct _turtle *supertype; < 1203448285 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *data; < 1203448285 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} Turtle; < 1203448510 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know i've never implemented bignums < 1203448512 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i should do that sometime < 1203448523 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boring ;) < 1203448525 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehrid`: Sure you have *g* < 1203448537 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data N = Zero | Succ N < 1203448788 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203448790 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant in c < 1203448902 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye..." < 1203449071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: it's even easier than that < 1203449075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just use type Integer... < 1203449226 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not an implementation thugh. < 1203449732 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203449740 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 seconds to calculate 100000 < 1203449742 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203449744 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100000! < 1203449748 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1203450152 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203450209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm............ < 1203450216 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should a bigint library handle negative numbers? < 1203450219 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! of course, < 1203450224 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the root node i can just include a 'sign' bit < 1203450386 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll just make the actual leaves unsigned long's tgeb < 1203450450 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203450451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1203450458 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base = sizeof(unsigned long)*8 < 1203450713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I finished the bf serialiser/unserialiser < 1203450720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've played through to the wildcat bit < 1203450723 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203450727 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me the interp&serialized < 1203450728 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203450745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pastes < 1203450896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/ytdzpo/bf-ser.c < 1203450901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the BF interp with serialisation < 1203450909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/hcaczt/wildcat.ser < 1203450916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the save file for the point in the game I reached < 1203450930 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should handle SIGSUSPEND < 1203450932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka ^Z < 1203450933 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for serialize < 1203450937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i want to input ` < 1203450937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203450946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that comes up < 1203450954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is just a quick hack < 1203450954 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what if i want to in some program :P < 1203450960 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, with ^Z, you can display a prompt) < 1203450964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't support loops nested more than 63 deep either < 1203450972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may improve it at some point < 1203450990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and serialisations are always written to the file ./bf.ser, but you can rename/copy it once it's been created < 1203451002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to load from a serialisation, it's bf-ser < 1203451034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and type L when it loads, to get it to repeat the last prompt, or it's terribly out of context < 1203451124 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203451133 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether some integer operations overflows in c is.. hard < 1203451158 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: link to lostkng.b? < 1203451165 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost it < 1203451210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for it now < 1203451212 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, you can't even do: < 1203451227 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a+b) or space < 1203451519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give the commands < 1203451549 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203451550 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203451565 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203451565 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203451602 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203451602 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203451624 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about that axe you have..? < 1203451630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using it < 1203451632 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203451634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work because you can't aim it < 1203451644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did but i don't know the controls properly so im having trouble. < 1203451644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I'm pretty sure I've got all the items in the game up to that point < 1203451655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing the cat doesn't work < 1203451660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throwing the axe at the cat doesn't work < 1203451668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and walking deeper kills you < 1203451689 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its a port of an older game < 1203451696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not look around for that one < 1203451704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in BASIC IIRC < 1203451710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I tried was to write a decompiler < 1203451718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I found there were unbalanced loops I gave up < 1203451733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should find a copy of BFBASIC and see if I can write something to reverse its effect < 1203451749 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1203451750 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>h 1 < 1203451750 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hear the creature stir but the beast remains hidden. < 1203451759 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ... more than just from BFBASIC: < 1203451764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdom.html < 1203451775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just threw away your box of matches! < 1203451779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you! < 1203451782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203451785 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rusty old lamp. < 1203451788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and yes, I tried that as well < 1203451789 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it made the creature stir < 1203451794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, misread the number < 1203451798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tried that too < 1203451805 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no inventory works < 1203451833 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, ais523 -- i think it's a dead end < 1203451843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nowhere else < 1203451851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that area was well-guarded < 1203451886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LostKingdom,ffb is the Acorn BBC BASIC version. < 1203451887 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LostKingdom.bbc is the non-Acorn BBC BASIC version. < 1203451892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe those are sources. < 1203451897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has actually written BBC Basic < 1203451904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those sources don't correspond to the BF version < 1203451906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they appear to be binary files < 1203451992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they are < 1203451998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with no recognisable text fragments < 1203452013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the text was new for the BF version, anyway, IIRC < 1203452051 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We need an esolang that is optimized for writing Hunt the Wumpus and simmilar. < 1203452053 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge does a good job of it. < 1203452088 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wumpus.jpg wow, the wumpus SO does not look like that < 1203452104 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wumpus looks like a walrus, but bigger, and stands more on its hind legs. < 1203452110 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eviller. red eyes. < 1203452137 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"사회주ì˜ì  ì‹ ë…, ìžì—°ì£¼ì˜ì  ì´ì„±" < 1203452270 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best befunge interp out there? < 1203452272 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that recompiling one < 1203452291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccbi is apparently the only standard-compilant Funge-98 interp, so that's the one I use < 1203452335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Funge-98 > Befunge-93 in so many ways < 1203452355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC-ness, for one < 1203452362 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like -93 more. < 1203452364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simpler. < 1203452370 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 is such complex crap. < 1203452375 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 + infinite board = yum < 1203452390 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides < 1203452396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 is 93+infinite board+actual specifications for some things that weren't specified before < 1203452397 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bef wumpus is written in -93 < 1203452402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: + complex crap < 1203452404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a whole lot of useful commands that you can ignore if you like < 1203452413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/wumpus.bf hunt the befunge-93 < 1203452427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: input behaviour on EOF is something that badly needed specifying < 1203452438 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck does fine without < 1203452442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1203452453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the EOF thing is responsible for most BF incompatibilities < 1203452460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF would be a much better lang without that particular problem < 1203452469 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203452470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty good as it is < 1203452516 0 :chere1!n=cherez@131.151.190.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203452517 0 :chere1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203452521 0 :chere1!n=cherez@131.151.190.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203452522 0 :chere1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203452536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another note, I'm working on an esolang-based text adventure < 1203452538 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1203452539 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which i should write a brainfuck specification < 1203452539 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formally < 1203452540 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in TeX < 1203452544 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or texinfo < 1203452550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, esolangs form the basis of the plot < 1203452557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the adventure is itself written in C < 1203452565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes texinfo < 1203452578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I have a BF-based, INTERCAL-based, and SMETANA-based puzzle < 1203452605 0 :cherez!n=cherez@131.151.190.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203452615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most of the puzzles, the player plays an intelligent IP that can choose to change direction out of free will and execute a different set of commands < 1203452635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the langs were made 2D so that people could walk around them in a more interesting way < 1203452647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slow going, though, because good puzzle ideas are hard to come by < 1203452669 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why write in c? < 1203452678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I started it years ago < 1203452690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I was mostly writing C in files with a .cpp extension < 1203452695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't really realise the difference < 1203452704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy enough to translate, if necessary < 1203452718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the portability's the other reason < 1203452832 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ok -- < 1203452840 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want to write Be Your Funge. < 1203452846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's FukYorBrane, but for befunge. < 1203452854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(93, of course -- the limitations are an advantage) < 1203452860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, yes < 1203452875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYB's main problem, by the way, is that [] loops can run for 0 repetitions < 1203452878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually, I think it will be short. < 1203452882 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1203452884 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an advantage < 1203452887 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a strategy < 1203452895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever hold a FYB contest, I'll force them to run at least once each < 1203452901 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubbish < 1203452916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you can just start your program by defecting, pointing at a NOP, and skipping 100000000000000 bytes of junk < 1203452928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do whatever you like because the opponent can only move their data pointer one step at a time < 1203452952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have trillions of instruction cycles before the opponent can get anywhere near affecting your program < 1203453000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads to degenerate competitions where the length of the original junk is all that determines who wins < 1203453012 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: beyourfunge will use p and g < 1203453015 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to point at the opponent < 1203453022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1203453069 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, should i do: < 1203453072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run ins on A < 1203453073 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run ins on B < 1203453074 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203453077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something more sophisciated? < 1203453088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you lose one thing I liked about fyb, which was that setting a square to a bomb was much harder than setting it to a low-numbered instruction in terms of time spent < 1203453102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: alternate either instructions or torus squares < 1203453116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably instructions as that's how most of the commands seem to be defined < 1203453120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. spaces take 0 time to run < 1203453142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's also probably a good idea to have some way to determine where the enemy instruction pointer is < 1203453156 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my way is nicer because it requires no language extensions < 1203453164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe radar-style: "how many spaces from point (x,y) is the enemy IP?" < 1203453176 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a sitting duck B, a non-modifying (of its own code) befunge program will behave normally < 1203453179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you either have to analyse the enemy program (ridiculously time-consuming) or guess < 1203453189 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1203453191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, are you sure spaces should take 0 to run? < 1203453205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1203453211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it fits the language better < 1203453223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't make too much difference in terms of making the IP hard to find < 1203453270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in a 2D language like Befunge it's hard enough anyway < 1203453307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's no way to pinpoint the enemy IP, programs are effectively just going to be guessing where to put bombs (quit instructions?), or else covering the entire torus systematically < 1203453314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't see much of a scope for better strategies < 1203453677 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ end program is indeed the bomb < 1203453722 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ais523 --- how else do you end a prog in befunge apart from @? < 1203453730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1203453736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 has q as well, though < 1203453822 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how big are befunge stack elements? < 1203453832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally 32-bit signed integers < 1203453854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: linked list stack or.. < 1203453865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack is infinite < 1203453871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making Befunge-93 a PDA < 1203453874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1203454010 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203454024 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203454211 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right=0 < 1203454212 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left=1 < 1203454213 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up=2 < 1203454215 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down=3 < 1203454260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, no diagonally? Now I remember another reason why I don't like Befunge-93 < 1203454303 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: horizontal if is: < 1203454315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(pop()){d=left;}else{d=right} < 1203454319 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and up/down for vertical < 1203454320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct? < 1203454330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I only memorised horizontal < 1203454335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it goes left on non-zero, yes < 1203454344 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * _ acts like < if the value is true or > if it is false; and < 1203454344 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * | acts like ^ if the value is true or v if it is false. < 1203454355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right on both counts < 1203454363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right as in correct, that is < 1203454365 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (pop(s, n)) { < 1203454366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *d = 1; < 1203454366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } else { < 1203454366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *d = 0; < 1203454366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1203454367 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---> < 1203454371 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*d = pop(s, n) % 2; < 1203454372 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203454379 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1203454379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203454381 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203454381 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203454383 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1203454384 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1203454387 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to do that? < 1203454390 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203454395 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*d = pop(s, n) & 1;; < 1203454395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*d = !!pop(s,n) < 1203454399 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203454401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&1 is also wrong < 1203454403 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203454404 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&& 1 < 1203454405 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203454408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because even values > 1 have to give true < 1203454410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&& 1 works < 1203454414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but !! is shorter and more idiomatic < 1203454443 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then | is !!pop(s,n)+2 < 1203454444 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1203454451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ^ = 2 and v = 4 < 1203454452 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*3 < 1203454490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203454496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pop(s,n)+2 < 1203454505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because true needs to give 3 and false needs to give 4 < 1203454519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only one exclamation mark, to reverse the sense of the test < 1203454598 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on an unrelated note, my stringmode handler in an 'if' jumps to a goto inside the else branch < 1203454609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1203454612 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203454613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but amusing < 1203454616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a little unusual < 1203454633 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could structure it more without goto. But there are about 5 lines between jump and label. < 1203454637 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't think it's important. < 1203454934 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stack for g < 1203454935 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x y < 1203454937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or y x < 1203454946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember < 1203454951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably wisest to look it up < 1203455040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: y is on top of the stack, according to the original docs < 1203455100 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just looked it up < 1203455100 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203455100 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203455147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing to be careful of is # < 1203455159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which apparently skips all whitespace in the IP's direction, and the next non-whitespace character < 1203455182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it does?? < 1203455187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think; I'm just looking it up again < 1203455188 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skip whitespace, that is < 1203455192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to not skip whitespace < 1203455220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the spec is ambiguous about that < 1203455232 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the ref interp do? < 1203455240 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find it < 1203455241 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203455280 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://quadium.net/funge/tbc/core.int < 1203455321 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203455322 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x += dx < 1203455324 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find dx.. < 1203455330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203455332 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're wrong < 1203455334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just steps one < 1203455335 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203455340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1203455352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the complicated situation when there's a # at the end of a line < 1203455358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the line is not exactly 80 chars long < 1203455362 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@cpc1-stkn2-0-0-cust786.midd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203455364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should I disable IO in Be Your Funge programs? < 1203455378 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will the multithreaded outputfuck be funny :D < 1203455383 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the inputfuck, well, useless i guess :D) < 1203455396 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and hm < 1203455396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing input would mean that you would have to generate the input somehow < 1203455402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mine that would advance it into the next space < 1203455404 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that correct? < 1203455410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it like Easy, where the input is embedded in the program < 1203455424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: jumping over the edge is undefined < 1203455435 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203455435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many interps do it differently for horizontal and vertical < 1203455438 0 :Sgeo[College]!i=897d285c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e771e7a67e609c17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203455438 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then who cares what happens < 1203455441 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1203455443 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455447 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the testsuite measures what happens but doesn't give it a pass or fail < 1203455449 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455449 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455449 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455450 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455450 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455451 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455453 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455453 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo[College]: Go to hell. < 1203455455 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi Sgeo < 1203455457 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455459 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455461 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203455462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut the fuck up. < 1203455463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stop spamming, there's something wrong with your client < 1203455466 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203455468 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it his client < 1203455472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be surely? < 1203455473 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought he was being highly annoying < 1203455474 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203455497 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also < 1203455500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be the client < 1203455500 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Easy the program is 'RUN' < 1203455502 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wtf < 1203455503 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no input there! < 1203455508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it isn't responding to ctcp version or ping < 1203455516 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an ajax one < 1203455517 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Client I think *winces* < 1203455518 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mibbit.com < 1203455526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I treat an Easy program as being what's typed into stdin < 1203455532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the input and program are all mixed up < 1203455533 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo[College]: you soid Hi all about 50 times! < 1203455538 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but easy is all about being pedantic with things like that < 1203455540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads to some nicer programs, though < 1203455545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world in Easy: < 1203455555 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, what do undefined instructions do in befunge-93?? < 1203455562 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?\?/?/ < 1203455564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,H.,e.,l.,l.,o.,,., .,w.,o.,r.,l.,d. < 1203455590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: error in befunge-93 < 1203455621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Funge-98 pretty much all errors, including undefined instructions, cause a rebound where the IP changes direction 180 degrees < 1203455728 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION figures out shortest way to do 1->2,2->1 < 1203455761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classic a^=b^=a^=b is unfortunately not portable, and is technically undefined behaviour < 1203455773 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i mean < 1203455775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 maps to 2 < 1203455777 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 maps to 1 < 1203455784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-x < 1203455859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's a classic INTERCAL problem (as 1 and 2 are the usual logic levels), with the usual answer being something like '?#1$.1'~#3 < 1203455882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. premingle 1, take XOR of consecutive bits, select the bottom two bits < 1203455959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/befunge/src/kquine.bf that's insane < 1203455967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't figure out whether it counts as a cheat or not... < 1203456028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is simultaneously inside and outside a string due to the unmatched string delimiter < 1203456046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it reads it as data, then when the IP overflows, it hits the original string delimiter and re-reads the program as code... < 1203456093 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not cheating < 1203456098 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you do befunge quines < 1203456126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoa, awesome -- byf is 255 lines XD < 1203456130 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 lines counting last \n < 1203456138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must not add another line < 1203456138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203456140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you finished writing it already, then? < 1203456147 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first prototype < 1203456149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't even been compiled < 1203456162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you ought to fit it into a space 80x25, really < 1203456165 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote it all without compiling it < 1203456167 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203456177 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even with huge obfuscation and minimalization, i don't think that would be possible < 1203456188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write multiple commands on a line < 1203456199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, more than a SCREENFUL of errors!!!!!!! < 1203456201 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course < 1203456203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just string assignments together with commas < 1203456207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203456208 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even so. < 1203456217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has seen entire C programs written in a single statement < 1203456222 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byf.c:8: warning: built-in function ‘y1’ declared as non-function < 1203456225 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'y1' is a built in function? < 1203456227 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck does that do? < 1203456242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try recompiling with -ansi < 1203456250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y1 certainly isn't a reserved identifier < 1203456250 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203456252 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's math.h stuff < 1203456253 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastards < 1203456254 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203456264 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1203456299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, a shorter Easy Hello, world!: ,[.,]Hello, world\0 < 1203456303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where \0 is the NUL character < 1203456316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, ,H[.,]ello, world!\0 < 1203456511 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: urgh < 1203456519 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc insists char [x][y] < 1203456525 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is really really different from char ** < 1203456531 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comparisons without casts - well, i'd better warn you! < 1203456535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very different < 1203456539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the sizeof issue < 1203456541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not in this context < 1203456542 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdfjksdf < 1203456548 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think warning about it by default is evil < 1203456550 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very evil < 1203456556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but does gcc realise that it's different in this context? < 1203456569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no but it can not warn about it by default!! < 1203456585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which warning flags are you using? < 1203456586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc should have an -fi-dont-know-c for the newbies that does do the while (x=y) warnings < 1203456590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can you paste the code? < 1203456595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by default let you do stuff like while (x=y) without doing while ((x=y)) < 1203456599 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: none, suprisingly < 1203456604 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it warns about it with no flags at all < 1203456604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, you can turn that one off by writing while ((x=y)) which is deliberate < 1203456605 0 :habnabit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203456606 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well -- -ansi :) < 1203456610 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see above. < 1203456612 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's **lame** < 1203456652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it at least reminds me which of my single-=s are deliberate < 1203456653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to put double parens around any = whose value is used in a situation more complicated than a=b=c < 1203456658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to remind me that's what I meant < 1203456661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to tell gcc that's what I meant < 1203456672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't disrupt other compilers because it's still legal C < 1203456693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i write c code that compilers should shut up and compile < 1203456701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's still clear < 1203456706 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not annotated for a bloody program < 1203456709 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203456723 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it must be said... < 1203456732 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byf.c only has one comment, and that's the top-of-file header < 1203456738 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is pretty much self-evident.. it's not complex < 1203456752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that some programmers have got into the habit of writing while(0==x) shows that some way of marking deliberate = signs is needed < 1203456758 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you have an editor which can jump between definitions properly - concepts aren't introduced in a chronological order :P < 1203456765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only bad programmers. < 1203456770 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO. :P < 1203456792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider myself to not be a bad programmer, but still typo a==b on occasion < 1203456805 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editors can help here < 1203456808 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not compilers < 1203456826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but sometimes I don't have access to a decent editor < 1203456833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not always on this computer, after all... < 1203456849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wouldn't you still have to write ((a=b)) to tell your editor it was deliberate? < 1203456887 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203456891 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can just highlight it differently < 1203456902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : step(p1, &s1, &x1, &y1, &d1, &sm1, 1); < 1203456908 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does & not result in t -> t *? < 1203456915 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void step(char p[25][80], bef_stack_t **s, int *x, int *y, int *d, int *sm, < 1203456916 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int n) < 1203456943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: when you look back at the code a while later, you need to know if it was deliberate < 1203456956 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: generally, the context explains that for me < 1203456961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and & gives you the address of a non-array variable < 1203456972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1203456976 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should do int -> int * < 1203456977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the address of the first element of an array variable < 1203456980 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gcc says incompatible pointer type < 1203456986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same tpe as the array < 1203456992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: which arg? < 1203456999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the type of the variable you're &ing? < 1203457003 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 3&4 < 1203457013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203457017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x and y are chars < 1203457021 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they only store 25 and 80 < 1203457026 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duhhhh < 1203457027 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203457058 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, ais523 -- < 1203457070 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef union { char v:1; } onebyteunion; < 1203457072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish you could do: < 1203457079 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char v:1; < 1203457080 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: < 1203457086 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef char bit:1; < 1203457101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some compilers allow that < 1203457107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but taking the address of a bit would be too difficult < 1203457121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler would have to store bits in separate bytes, avoiding the benefits < 1203457140 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true... but it would be nice if you could do < 1203457142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compilers that do allow it are generally for microcontrollers and other small devices that need the memory saving < 1203457147 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef char boolean:1; < 1203457150 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the usage i was imagining < 1203457158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a variable that acts like it's one bit is available as _Bool in C99 < 1203457164 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it's actually bigger < 1203457168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, _Bool is the data type to declare it as < 1203457178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://rafb.net/p/626wHG90.html i think p and g have off-by-one errors here.. < 1203457179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's actually bigger because it needs to be for the computer to handle it well < 1203457189 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my head doesn't want to wrap itself around it :-) < 1203457250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,0) is the top-left corner of the playfield < 1203457273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's nothing obviously wrong with the code with respect to off-by-one < 1203457280 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1203457281 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b vs a < 1203457287 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have the order mixed up < 1203457289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i hear about this PSOX thing < 1203457291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it any good < 1203457300 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1203457305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1203457318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo just left, though, and they're probably the best person to ask for information < 1203457320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1203457327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ehird` and Sgeo have been arguing about its merits for a while < 1203457331 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: singular they club??!?! *high-5* < 1203457338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know it all, just being an oklopol. < 1203457346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has even been known to refer to themselves using singular they < 1203457353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that should be themself... < 1203457360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally use themself, actually < 1203457365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just woke up, and it's 11:46 pm :) < 1203457365 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: '* ais523 has' < 1203457368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reads realy badly < 1203457376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does my sleep cycle always end up fucked up < 1203457388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :themself would have been better, I just typed the wrong thing < 1203457440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know what you use. not much gets past me that happens here. < 1203457471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: if byf doesn't have a defect instruction, or some way to modify your own source, then there's no sensible way for a program to detect and clean up @-bombs the enemy's aiming at it < 1203457479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i had a week of self-searching a while ago, and actually missed some of the logs :| < 1203457504 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about my a/b mixup though? ... i want to fix that first < 1203457505 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1203457561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y-coordinate is on the top of the stack < 1203457577 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nit is mixed up < 1203457594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you're doing p1[x][y], p and g have a and b the wrong way round < 1203457620 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop: ~/byf < 1203457621 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./byf wumpus.bf wumpus.bf < 1203457621 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command 0 in program -1209218860 < 1203457623 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowzers :D < 1203457668 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the program < 1203457671 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still unknown command 0 < 1203457671 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203457672 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1203457673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need digits < 1203457674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't pass the second data arg to fprintf at all < 1203457678 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1203457686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think -Wall warns you about that nowadays < 1203457805 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (p[*x][*y] >= '0' && p[*x][*y] <= '9') { < 1203457805 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : push(s, p[*x][*y] - '0'); < 1203457806 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1203457813 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it looks just like the original atoi! :) < 1203457836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing C89 and C99 both insist that '0' to '9' be contiguous < 1203457861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they don't guarantee that sort of thing for any other set of characters, due to EBCDIC < 1203457876 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which is better - a deflect instruction or two new p/g alikes? < 1203457889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably p/g-alikes < 1203457908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that saves the problem of special-casing dropping defects into the opponent's code < 1203457935 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll reuse input&output chars < 1203457937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause i'm evil < 1203457941 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like breaking existing programs < 1203457944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multithreading may or may not be useful, too; FYB certainly does it a lot < 1203458011 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yikes! that would be non-trivial with my current design. < 1203458015 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i could use fork() < 1203458019 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pthreads... urrrgh, pthreads. < 1203458047 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: . or , for 'put to this program' < 1203458060 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think , < 1203458061 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's for ascii < 1203458073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could just have g and p to aim at yourself, as usual, and . and , could aim at the opponent < 1203458108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other variations thereof, . and , would be mean as they're two versions of the same instruction < 1203458110 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should i come up with entirely new names, then? < 1203458116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203458119 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203458126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess not - breaking existing programs is FUN! :) < 1203458131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an input instruction and an output instruction < 1203458136 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203458139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than two output instructions, one of which does input... < 1203458204 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK < 1203458211 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, standard BF command characters, sans & and . < 1203458221 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IO instructions work like g and p on the other person's board < 1203458230 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do i need a 'find IP' instruction? < 1203458241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1203458257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that just pushes its coords on the stack, but that might make things too easy < 1203458276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a 'distance from my IP to the enemy IP'; that would be interesting! < 1203458289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to check at lots of different points in your own program < 1203458295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encouraging people to spread about a bit < 1203458320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pushing coords to the stack would not be easy < 1203458325 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe < 1203458340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just instantly write a @ where the opponent was, and repeat continuously < 1203458342 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could constantly do it, add one @ to x+1 and one @ to y+1 < 1203458346 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203458350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we think alike < 1203458362 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, distance from my ip would work but then you'd need to get your own ip < 1203458370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know where it is < 1203458373 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your radar idea is kind of crappy -- it would be mostly shooting in the dark < 1203458381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I agree < 1203458401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you find out where the enemy IP was x cycles ago, where x is some positive number < 1203458411 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you do '1', then you can just do the same trick, but add 2 < 1203458422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get to choose x < 1203458427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, say, 10 < 1203458447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so programs in tight loops, or that twist and turn, avoid that strategy < 1203458464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tight loops are risky because you can aim at where the opponent was in the hope they'll go back to that square again < 1203458639 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1203458642 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't decide which would be the best < 1203458647 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean -- how does fukyourbrane avoid this? < 1203458667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a 'loop until my data pointer is the same as the enemy's instruction pointer' loop < 1203458675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works better in a 1D language than a 2D language < 1203458736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. < 1203458736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i know! < 1203458736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a < 1203458736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'make my ip the enemy's ip' < 1203458736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1203458736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to be 're-entrant'... haha < 1203458745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a bit too random for me < 1203458755 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1203458773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could place some sort of 'warning beacon' in your own code < 1203458774 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another note, zzo38 is not very good at designing web apps; http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/mainpage is basically inscrutable < 1203458824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/_show_source yikes < 1203458826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand it < 1203458830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UI, that is < 1203458875 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very awkward < 1203458898 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of an old bbs system, actually. < 1203458907 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1203458912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is it usual to use changequote(#,|) in m4? < 1203458919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm doing right now < 1203458920 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it woludn't be so bad without the crossed-out buttons. < 1203458946 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38's ideas are quite odd in general, actually < 1203458948 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second post on this blog: < 1203458949 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I invented a Sub-Wikipedia in ScribbleWiki. You can use it for anything, but mostly for things that isn't on Wikipedia because some administrators deleted it or whatever, maybe because there aren't enough verifiable sources, or maybe for some other reason.' < 1203458953 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read as: < 1203458957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people have had that idea < 1203458959 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'trashcan of non-notable crap wiki' < 1203458969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a Wikipedia administrator < 1203458977 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, i know you're a wp admin :P < 1203458981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I know more about the problem than most < 1203458987 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before even coming to #esoteric i kept seeing you dotted around the talk pages, actually < 1203459009 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203459017 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203459023 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r12snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203459025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://subwikipedia.scribblewiki.com/Special:Recentchanges active thing. < 1203459064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Nine on that wiki is pretty interesting < 1203459078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if it's meant to be true or humorous or both, though < 1203459083 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's .. barely interesting < 1203459084 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203459094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting in the attitude it shows, anyway < 1203459106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably tell a lot about people from random wiki scribbles < 1203459123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the way I tried to implement a cyclic tag system in MediaWiki once < 1203459141 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1198908097 < 1203459171 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, he's a nut < 1203459178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: quite < 1203459183 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but his esolangs are good < 1203459188 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'It's sometimes claimed that prayer doesn't work, it doesn't increase the probability of getting whatever you prayed for. I think probabilities are not calculated like that. I also think that assigning material efficacy to prayer is like greed, and greed should be avoided.' < 1203459194 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how else you should calculate probabilities < 1203459197 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical, run-of-the-mill math cook < 1203459201 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. he's probably in here right now, being offended < 1203459207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: he did make TwoDucks.. < 1203459214 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203459226 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, all of these: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38 < 1203459229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucks is great < 1203459255 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if english is his first language? < 1203459261 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope not but i can't find any source of him using another < 1203459265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I knew zzo38 had made a lot, but didn't realise it was quite that many < 1203459347 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what would be cool? < 1203459348 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gopher cgi. < 1203459348 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a gopher blog < 1203459348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, make it stateful < 1203459348 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a gopher bbs < 1203459348 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203459352 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203459355 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuation-based gopher server. < 1203459361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if only one user uses it at a time, you can actually send instructions just by following a certain pattern of links < 1203459361 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME < 1203459378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuation-based websites would be interesting enough by themselves < 1203459383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm being thrown out again... < 1203459390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"about to lose my Internet connection" < 1203459393 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: continuation based websites have already been done... < 1203459396 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... crap < 1203459414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203459420 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: interested in Be Your Funge? < 1203459426 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fuk yor brane for befunge-93) < 1203459628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name is awesome at least < 1203459631 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1203459632 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203459636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never tried fukyorbrane < 1203459642 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you know wo it works? < 1203459644 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1203459652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read the spec < 1203459655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203459663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i vaguely know how it works. < 1203459666 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203459666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: hi :) < 1203459667 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, oklopol -- i have instructions like 'p' and 'g' but on the opponents program < 1203459676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how should a program determine where the enemy's ip is? < 1203459682 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just getting it as a value makes a perfect program too easy < 1203459686 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203459695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood can answer too < 1203459696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203459701 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203459703 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Musical-X < 1203459709 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you are talking about < 1203459716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: does that have to be easily determined < 1203459723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that language looks a lot like Prelude < 1203459741 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, otherwise how are you going to insert a bomb at a good plcae < 1203459757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: a bit too syntax-oriented imo < 1203459773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tbh i'm mostly just assuming that. < 1203459839 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best brainfuck way to get 64? < 1203459840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems i guessed right < 1203459851 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine the same will be true for befunge < 1203459876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203459885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtget @ < 1203459887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203459890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen @ < 1203459900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_textgen @ < 1203459910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible to remember whether there's an e. < 1203459929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1203459936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ip doesn't really leave any trace < 1203459945 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1203459954 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help me damn robot! < 1203459957 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no e < 1203459960 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :txtgen < 1203459963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you can observe the stack and deduce what instructions they've run! < 1203459990 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1203459999 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1203459999 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8*8 < 1203460006 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you have your own stack < 1203460014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. < 1203460017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaand? < 1203460025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00::88*pv < 1203460025 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < < 1203460027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the stack of the other guy's < 1203460034 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ that's the simplest BeYourFunge program < 1203460035 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203460035 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1203460064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuzzit do < 1203460065 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00::88*p1+\1+\v < 1203460065 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < < 1203460077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: puts @ at 0,0 then at 1,1 .. oh, wait < 1203460083 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want 0,1,0,2,0,3... < 1203460084 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1203460085 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be hard < 1203460086 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203460093 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ = end program = LOSE < 1203460118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1203460121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard? < 1203460133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come, isn't befunge fairly simple < 1203460155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll glance at the spec < 1203460184 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because < 1203460187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to do this < 1203460188 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,0 < 1203460189 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,1 < 1203460190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,2 < 1203460190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203460192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,79 < 1203460194 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,0 < 1203460195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,1 < 1203460197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,2 < 1203460197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1203460198 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,79 < 1203460199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2,0 < 1203460201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is you can modify the other guy's code, and executing @ makes you lose? < 1203460201 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1203460203 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 24 < 1203460207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1203460216 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can find the other guy's instruction pointer but jumping through hoops < 1203460223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: why not go diagonally? < 1203460231 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because that isn't brute-force < 1203460256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that might be a bit more difficult. < 1203460262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... not really < 1203460275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least shouldn't be much longer < 1203460301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just thinking you may wanna extend to infinite grids < 1203460304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1203460324 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203460330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can run off at great speed < 1203460332 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start < 1203460451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1203461201 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god, zzo's english is atrocious http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/wmskins/Command-Skin.txt < 1203461334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: must be intentional < 1203461342 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope not < 1203461355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1203461367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's that < 1203462043 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203467218 0 :mu!n=chatzill@p5499DB4B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203467301 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203467384 0 :sumisu!n=chatzill@p5499DB4B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203467685 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203467732 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203468250 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203468354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203468354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203468355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203468356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j/k < 1203468394 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203470357 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-202-40.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203470601 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203470611 0 :sumisu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203475687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203478465 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-139.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203478591 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-236-142-139.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203478629 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1203478643 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1203478691 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think someone's playing age of empires 2 on the gateway computer again ..... < 1203478823 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First was better. < 1203478825 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More lasers. < 1203478864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :öäo.- < 1203478904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wanna write me a fictional debate. < 1203478940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been up all night trying to do my "spoken english" assignments... i've managed to write about 20 lines now. < 1203478968 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the debate's topic? < 1203478981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b)Conscientious objectors are cowards < 1203478981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c)Fewer women than men have won the Nobel prize because women are less intelligent than men < 1203478981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d)Academic education is highly overrated < 1203478993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the missing a) is not due to me. < 1203479009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are "conscientious objectors"? < 1203479015 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cowards. < 1203479020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203479021 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zing* < 1203479029 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're people objecting the war. < 1203479040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so. < 1203479050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what war? < 1203479059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the* war? < 1203479070 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A war in general. < 1203479081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1203479089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, asd < 1203479093 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1203479095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna write it :) < 1203479108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one is needed! < 1203479114 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't go to science university for nothing. < 1203479139 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be able to develop an imposed idea on any length. < 1203479165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can show you one of my earlier essays, it's *not* about quality. < 1203479176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all gathered here to take a glance at the past three years we spent as a class. It was a journey of hard work, learning and self-discipline, but it was also about togetherness. There are some great stories, and even greater accomplishments, but I'll spare you from them. The end of high-school is the beginning of a new era for everyone, people get jobs and whatnot. Some go to university. Some just wither away in the absense of company and < 1203479176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge. Dunno. < 1203479207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter at all what grade i get for this shit, it's just i cannot get . < 1203479213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything* written. < 1203479227 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program something to write it for you. < 1203479265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of that. unfortunately i'd really like to get on the project i thought i'd be doing today < 1203479276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... would like to get this done quickly < 1203479302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i can write some nonsense < 1203479308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i hate high school < 1203479334 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sound judgement. < 1203479377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose people are sick of my in-channel PSOX demo? < 1203479432 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're convinced enough. < 1203479445 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably do something else. < 1203479468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to change some stuff with servers < 1203479483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When accepting a server socket connection, give the option of blocking v. non-blocking < 1203479630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I'll work on it tomorrow < 1203479645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches as the "tomorrows" built up < 1203479780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: make an irc client with brainfuck using PSOX < 1203479794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I'm not that advanced with BF < 1203479830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do gui with psox < 1203479838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not yet < 1203479865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird previously said that e'd do a GUI domain, but then decided to make a competing spec, "SOXP" < 1203479897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think ehird cares enough to finish either of those < 1203479919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might make an irc client in brainfuck, might be fun < 1203479945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be that hard to make a telnet client, and after that it's basically just pingponging < 1203479963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1203479968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the telnet client shouldn't really be < 1203479974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything* if the api is good. < 1203480397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pastebin.ca/910729 yes, i'm a literary genius. < 1203480457 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you graded by the quantity of text? < 1203480536 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm very confused < 1203480566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: how's that? :D < 1203480583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: i think i'm graded by the overall quality < 1203480594 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tough luck. < 1203480601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203480656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg there's a typo < 1203480694 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man am I glad to be out of high school. < 1203480698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point -> points < 1203480707 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203480712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a few more months. < 1203480751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few more months until I have a job, and then a school where I have a hope of learning. . . < 1203480761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really have anything else left but this one course :) < 1203480800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 6 courses. < 1203480808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 7, if you count my UCCS course. < 1203480817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 of the above courses are for college credit. < 1203480828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one course religion, though, but i'm doing that even less seriously. < 1203480830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are the only classes I feel like I'm learning anything in. < 1203480832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCCS? < 1203480841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :University of Colorado - Colorado Springs. < 1203480846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1203480855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 3 courses in the uni here < 1203480859 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you have a required religion course? < 1203480912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: there's a non-religion option for it, but it's basically the same stuff, just have to go to another building for classes < 1203480912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That disgusts me. . . < 1203480912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i took religion. < 1203480912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1203480920 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no *a* required religion course < 1203480924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three* < 1203480934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1203480938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, as a religious person, am offended by the prospect of requiring a religion course. < 1203480950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something *highly* personal. < 1203480970 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it frightening that MTU's comparative religion class is taught by a youth pastor. < 1203480980 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Religion is by definition a society thing. < 1203480980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's next: a class on how to be an (anarchist|democrat|republican)? < 1203480982 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...who has been known to give extra credit for attending his sermons... < 1203480986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not about ones own beliefs, i'm openly atheist, and that's no obstactle. < 1203480991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*obstacle < 1203481051 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203481115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaand sent < 1203481151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that's enough to pass high school. < 1203481184 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're full of hope. < 1203481294 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably say I lean towards atheism, if it weren't for the fact that I'm a pastor myself... < 1203481328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203481399 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we pronounce it a little differently, though < 1203481955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... anyone here founded a religion? < 1203481961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty cheap in finland < 1203482007 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it tax-deductible? < 1203482012 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could pretend to make one. < 1203482025 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, praying when they come to check on us and all. < 1203482038 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And playing ping pong or whatever the rest of the time. < 1203482043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203482065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we thought we'd start one with a few friends, but there's a chance you might get into media that way. < 1203482073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is never good < 1203482089 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just perform a miracle. < 1203482106 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interpreter written in Malbolge or raising the dead. < 1203482120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, because the media is *never* interested in miracles. < 1203482136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those sound about equivalent... < 1203482151 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least you'd be srs business! < 1203482201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The official church of Esoism. < 1203482219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1203482243 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will be the esoteric doctrine of the Church? < 1203482243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the old topic right btw, i didn't store it anywhere :-) < 1203482266 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old topic was : < 1203482266 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang | forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | EgoBot: !help | wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric | Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1203482307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoists believe in esoteric programming. < 1203482316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more common a religion than you might think < 1203482334 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what language is the universe written? < 1203482345 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are souls stacks? Tapes? < 1203482402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are desperately playing it is not Malbolge < 1203482407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*praying < 1203482418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD, BAD fingers < 1203482448 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it even computable :o < 1203482457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably not < 1203482505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in TwoDucks. the quantum behavior is just a side effect of the incessant time travel < 1203482667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to write a Malbolge IRC client? < 1203482736 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm no prophet of Esoism. < 1203482887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to award anyone who can pull *that* off the patent title Prophet of Esome. < 1203482897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I have to create a whole new nomic to do it! < 1203482915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: BTW: I'm also the Herald now. < 1203482926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm done getting offices. Any more, and I'll go insane. < 1203482987 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall discussing a biblically-inspired language called "INTHEBEGINNING" < 1203483146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points at ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/frc/39 < 1203483166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FRC Programming Language round) < 1203483171 0 :habnabit!n=habnabit@cust-65-98-205-68.static.o1.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203483182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the website hasn't been updated since 2000 :( < 1203483198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now hosted on Google Groups. < 1203483231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION liked reading FRC archives 4+ years ago.. < 1203483254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203483512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a FRC player < 1203483519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1203483529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Sgeo didn't. < 1203483552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew oerjan was an FRC player < 1203483572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ørjan < 1203483576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ørjan < 1203483581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be < 1203483615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise, he used to be an Agoran. < 1203483625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Øøø < 1203483627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1203483682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Øøø == erm in norwegian, just about :) < 1203484110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can just use øøø instead of erm? < 1203484162 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a free country. < 1203484207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may not want to draw it out quite that long. < 1203484232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :öö... øø... err.. < 1203484235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yy.. < 1203484252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yy? you say that in finland? :) < 1203484259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yy is lojban < 1203484261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :öö is finnish < 1203484271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y is what it is in norwegian, i think. < 1203484294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1203484315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks oklopol is not paying attention < 1203484344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finnish "y" == the norwegian "y" < 1203484357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not, i am not, watching american dad and playing the guitar < 1203484361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1203484378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well approximately i guess. not sure how the finnish y sounds < 1203484411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beyond being in the approximate right place) < 1203484426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know what the swedish one sounds like, and naturally i assume the norwegian one is the exact same ;) < 1203484430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know german ü is not exactly like norwegian y < 1203484450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well swedish is pretty close < 1203484484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there might be a subtle difference, but i don't know it. < 1203484541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure either. < 1203484642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean every swedish vowel is colored by the difference in general intonation from norwegian, i think. < 1203484698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1203485638 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203485715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :øø < 1203485769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, if used out of context it is also an expression of stupidity, drunkness or gibbering insanity. < 1203486367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :øø < 1203486385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it, exactly? Is there an online definition somewhere? < 1203486450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1+1 < 1203486504 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1203486571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "er" and "øø" are pronounced the same. < 1203486594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(almost the same, in case someone thinks that's important) < 1203486713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1203486813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if people always use the øö character for erring < 1203486842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps somewhere in nigeria, people say "wobbity wobbity" when thinking what to say next. < 1203486872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they speak english or something in nigeria, i really don't even know where that is exactly < 1203486877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, -> < 1203487121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203487180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I believe English is one of their official languages. < 1203488012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1203488520 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing some planning sketches for another set of comics- lemme scan them and then you can tell me what you think... < 1203488530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203488729 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203488516-art1.png < 1203488732 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203488528-art2.png < 1203488936 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoughts? Is the dialogue too heavy-handed? Confusing? < 1203488962 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dialog is unreadable... < 1203489009 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, look at this awesomeness -> http://coilhouse.net/2007/12/22/the-beautiful-nightmares-of-zdzislaw-beksinski/ < 1203489049 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want prints < 1203489107 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was stabbed to death by his caretaker's son. < 1203489136 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it says < 1203489429 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh holy shit < 1203489433 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posters are $450 < 1203489447 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to the wonderful world of art < 1203489479 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where all prices are directly proportional to demand, yet still higher than seems reasonable < 1203489506 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chetzar.com/oil_paintings/DOUBLEWHAMMY.html < 1203489520 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i was rich sometimes :( < 1203489582 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a subpar knockoff < 1203489594 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the intricate detail < 1203489683 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.beksinski.pl/masterlist.htm < 1203489689 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an "art print"? < 1203489750 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the medium < 1203489760 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, it's one of a limited series of copies of an original < 1203489773 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs range fro 20 to 500 in most cases < 1203489794 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are usually made/signed by the original artist < 1203489824 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of things like woodcuts (Escher, for example), the prints effectively *are* the originals. < 1203490052 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeeeeezz i would wallpaper my room with these < 1203490191 0 :uvanta!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203490212 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, uvanta < 1203490227 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1203490349 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up? < 1203490458 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit < 1203490464 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want something for $20 < 1203490954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can sell you a quality oko for just $15. < 1203490963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not now, but after my nap < 1203490965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1203491000 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and I can sell you an original rtg for any price you name! < 1203491016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OW FUCK < 1203491021 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, goodnight folks < 1203491038 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should not have been fidgeting with a large binder clip right by my mouth... < 1203491047 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna have a fucking lip blood blister now < 1203494399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203494400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203495228 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203495262 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203495292 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203495328 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203496193 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203497982 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203501628 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm being forced to learn PHP < 1203501659 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that hard.. < 1203501769 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2 days. :( < 1203501828 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a file layout, and i should make a PHP class to handle (encode/decode) it < 1203501841 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't used PHP at all < 1203503532 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1203503602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1203503626 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1203503892 0 :sumisu!n=chatzill@p5499FB8D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203505232 0 :sumisu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]" < 1203507114 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203508183 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203508366 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203509220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203509370 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203513918 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host6-88-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203514835 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203515985 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-242.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203517017 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203517431 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203517616 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Church of Esoism, huh? < 1203517641 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying desperately to figure out what language the creator(s) used to code the universe? < 1203517722 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1203517735 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think xkcd nailed it in that strip < 1203517767 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it was no esoteric language! < 1203517776 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a good strip < 1203517793 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp will soon be obscure enough to be esoteric, just you wait < 1203517815 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1203517833 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, books have been written about it. < 1203517849 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its been used in legitimate research. PhDs have been earned. < 1203517854 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not likely to be forgotten quickly enough. < 1203517885 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet someone's written a PhD thesis that's in some way about brainfuck or some other esoteric language < 1203517953 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is probably the most borderline case when it comes to esoteric languages < 1203517991 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a number of esoteric languages have roots in serious academic subjects. < 1203518001 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But usually in computability, not programmation. < 1203518008 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck from P''. < 1203518017 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda from combinators. < 1203518157 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge from pure evil. Wait, that's not academics. That's earning tenure. < 1203518195 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*classical literature < 1203518214 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1203518220 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dante would be proud < 1203518240 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until he presses the "compile" button. < 1203518266 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm presuming that he's watching someone else press the compile button in one of the seven circles. < 1203518303 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1203518317 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look at that poor little fellow. He's trying to use NOPs to create predictable instructions. Good thing I've given him some faulty RAM. < 1203518388 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've been away for quite some time. It looks like PSOX is the new primary discussion topic. < 1203518475 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo isn't giving up at least! < 1203518502 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, doesn't seem like it. < 1203518536 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a good idea. I had come up with a similar design for my vaporware fungeoid system, but it wasn't multilingual like PSOX is. < 1203518711 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm still planning on coming out with my system at some point. < 1203527156 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203527302 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many occurences of the :) < 1203531506 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird': I'd debate whether or not a logo counts as speech. < 1203531524 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm well happy with hate crimes < 1203531532 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Shush you < 1203531537 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could put text on the logo if you like < 1203531550 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're thinking of Active Whale < 1203531552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is imperative < 1203531564 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could simply put text sans logo. < 1203531573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that no other Image: namespace article seems to be a logo < 1203531615 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: But the text would be there to cover up for the logo. Duh. < 1203531620 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, did I say that out aloud? < 1203531645 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I can't hear you < 1203531666 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my speakers are off < 1203531677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's got a banana in his ear < 1203531705 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203531736 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banana? Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays? < 1203531817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all, this is ancient: < 1203531830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure." < 1203531843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non < 1203531942 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203532004 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203532104 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy idea -- < 1203532108 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the boehm gc? < 1203532117 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what if you built a version that exported malloc as GC_malloc, etc, < 1203532121 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then used LD_PRELOAD.. < 1203532125 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used everyday apps with it < 1203532125 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203532215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is new? i barely thought i'd heard it could be used with unmodified programs (with a risk of space leaks if it misidentifies pointers) < 1203532231 0 :otesanek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203532257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does your suggestion imply something more... < 1203532322 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, mostly it means you'd patch the code < 1203532328 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean, right after the kernel < 1203532334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that everything, absolutely everything uses it < 1203532363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203532375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably someone tried < 1203532397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _could_ break horribly if someone saves pointers in a different format for some reason < 1203532535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imagine a PL implementation with a gc < 1203532538 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!" < 1203532538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say adding tag bits or similar. ghc does that < 1203532545 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1203532548 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most schemes do that < 1203532556 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(least-sig bit = is-small-int?) < 1203532571 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but they have their own gc < 1203532572 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203532592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they _might_ use ordinary malloc for initial allocation < 1203532853 0 :habnabit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203533282 0 :habnabit!n=habnabit@207.62.231.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203533454 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203535092 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there a couple folks in here willing to rate my project idea on a scale of 1 to 10? < 1203535111 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing. < 1203535121 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though my rating won't be fair, accurate, or based on experience. < 1203535144 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really looking for fair or accurate. Experience-based might be useful, but not necessary. < 1203535152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon, want to see a PSOX demo? < 1203535197 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We want to see a PSOX logo! < 1203535201 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203535207 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203535215 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1203535218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re wildhalcyon < 1203535231 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203535231 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203535231 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203535249 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re what? < 1203535255 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re == rehi < 1203535281 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho, hello < 1203535316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello everyone < 1203535349 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203535351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, I was in the channel before but not paying attention until now) < 1203535363 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. More people to horrifically mutilate my idea until I'm a poor shadow of the man I used to be! < 1203535439 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we're always glad to help < 1203535461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1203535469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: what is your project idea? < 1203535526 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My project is a fungeoid which can be partitioned into a grid-based system of processors, either self-controlled or locally controlled, rather than controlled from a centralized source. < 1203535544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does sound interesting, actually < 1203535558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to prefer fungeoids to store data in the program near the IP < 1203535571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're taking that to one possible logical conclusion < 1203535580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you should get the IP to store data nearby as well) < 1203535614 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, essentially the IP meta-data would reside in the control system, in a separate space. < 1203535658 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use the fungeoid to develop two meta-projects: The first is an autonomous autoprogramming system that would write itself new code on the fly. < 1203535718 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second is a shared virtual codespace where users could rent/own/have a parcel of the codespace an interchange IPs/data/code with one another, and outputting to shared media - such as a chatroom or drawing board. < 1203535800 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw < 1203535804 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuation based websites are a 'done thing' < 1203535807 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. seaside.st < 1203535808 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203535816 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas for IP finding in be your funge? < 1203535828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: INTERCAL doesn't have a logo AFAIK < 1203535838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: two ideas < 1203535843 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1203535844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither are very good < 1203535849 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon < 1203535851 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird' what do you mean IP finding? < 1203535859 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: instruction pointer < 1203535868 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be your funge is like fuk yor brane < 1203535869 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what the IP is, what do you mean by "finding" it? < 1203535870 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for befunge-93 < 1203535873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird` is planning a language like FukYorBrane, but based on Begune < 1203535878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begunge? < 1203535880 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203535881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Begune/Befunge/ < 1203535882 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begune? < 1203535886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds awesome < 1203535895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hit return rather than backspace < 1203535910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Begune does sound quite good, yes < 1203535923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see more stuff designed for PSOX < 1203535925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it isn't 3am so maybe that typo can't be used < 1203535994 0 :habnabit_!n=habnabit@207.62.231.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203536057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first idea was that you could put special characters in your own program, which could somehow sense the opponent's IP going past on the other side of the program < 1203536073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when your own IP went past them, its action depended on whether the opponent's IP had since last time yours did < 1203536095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, imagine the two programs being on the outside and inside of the same torus < 1203536112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the special characters being a sort of barrier that could be pushed into or out of the torus < 1203536151 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be interesting < 1203536157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one contiguous block of characters (that is, where each character in the block is a 4-neighbour of at least one other block) would be pushed into or out of the torus as a group < 1203536186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever the opponent's IP goes past a block that started on your side, it pushes it to your side (without changing the behaviour of the opponent's IP) < 1203536188 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see FukYorBrane offer some "special" rules in the A-Z character range. < 1203536219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever yours reaches a block that started on your side, it pushes it to the opponent's side, and if it was on your side to start with the IP rebounds < 1203536256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other idea was simply to specify an area and ask if the enemy's IP is within that area, so you can do things like bsearch for it < 1203536268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first idea is more interesting IMO but I'm not sure how useful it would be < 1203536268 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hrm < 1203536272 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither really seems esoteric enough < 1203536275 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fukyourbrane's is good < 1203536282 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a lot of searching logic, but it isn't trivial either < 1203536293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one seems pretty esoteric to me < 1203536319 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the boundaries on FukYorBrane? < 1203536319 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but impractical and hard < 1203536322 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: none < 1203536326 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it's 1d, it's easier < 1203536338 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, its 1D huh? Yeah, that's a tad easier I suppose. < 1203536343 0 :habnabit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203536393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FYB has a 'loop while my data pointer is different from the enemy's instruction pointer' instruction < 1203536410 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be interesting if it was a 2xINF tape. < 1203536452 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1203536514 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe not < 1203536710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is dead tired < 1203536730 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so sleep < 1203536733 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hrmm < 1203536774 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nginx contains some REALLY bad ideas.. < 1203536775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.codemongers.com/NginxHttpEmptyGifModule < 1203536788 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, on a scale of 1 to 10 how would you folks rate my project? < 1203536798 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: 2i < 1203536800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.23066 < 1203536816 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(come on, this is #esoteric. what did you expect?) < 1203536841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I remember when there was a 1x1 transparent GIF used on Wikipedia for a while as part of the IE PngFix < 1203536845 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with imaginary and complex numbers, but after figuring the magnitude, it comes out to only.. 2 :-( < 1203536864 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am pretty sure in nginx it's designed for the 1-pixel padding gifs < 1203536868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something went wrong with it in the end, and they took it off that script; I'm not sure what exactly, nobody was sure at the time < 1203536868 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used along with
and .. < 1203536887 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, nginx is russian and designed for amazing performance on huge websites and all of the top russian websites have terrible html like that.. < 1203536906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some people thought it was because the image was requested so often that the servers got confused < 1203536908 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Naww. It's slightly above two. Or below. < 1203536912 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, below is -i. < 1203536921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2i is somewhat above 0 < 1203536923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not above 2 < 1203536928 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, good point < 1203536931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a typically-axed Argand diagram < 1203536943 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2i has a magnitude of 2. < 1203536945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could draw the axes diagonally and have 2i above 2 if you liked < 1203536949 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also not between 1 and 10 < 1203536954 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: yes it is < 1203536960 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pinch one and ten between your fingers < 1203536963 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the complex numbers are there < 1203536965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertically < 1203536969 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1203536969 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above 0 < 1203536972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you're right/ < 1203536987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it were above 2, you'd only get it if your fingers had a width of at least 2 < 1203536995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 4 so they were symmetrical about the x-axis < 1203537010 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's okay, ehird` has sausage fingers. < 1203537020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey :( < 1203537069 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had sausage fingers. Then I ate them. < 1203537099 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CANNIBAL < 1203537134 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but I'm so tasty < 1203537139 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy my rice and curry, so hurry hurry hurry. Hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy one for two, special price for you < 1203537163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofok < 1203537185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy my rice and curry, so hurry hurry hurry. Hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy one for two, special price for you < 1203537186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1203537189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=dTiMV1Vv1Tw < 1203537206 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=g09gOh2qwug < 1203537344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, obviously that person knows which species on Earth is the smartest.. < 1203537365 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ball of twine with mice ears? < 1203537386 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: look around you is brilliant < 1203537400 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned many things from it! < 1203537415 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the largest number is, in fact, around 4 billion < 1203537422 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203537435 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some suspects that larger numbers might exist. < 1203537446 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ping* 4,000,000,001? < 1203537454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I failed to connect "Look Around You" from that YT page with Look Around You.. < 1203537468 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203537495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the largest number is in fact 4294967295 < 1203537507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967296 is in fact smaller < 1203537534 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: integer wrap around is fun < 1203537534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worrying thing is that I have 2^32 memorised... < 1203537567 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Around 4 billions" is good enough < 1203537581 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory starts running short at 8096 < 1203537611 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I only have 2^13 bits of memory < 1203537635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean either 4096 or 8192 < 1203537642 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Slimmingpicture.jpg D'AAAAAAH! < 1203537652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should stop making lame Look Around You references < 1203537654 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my memory isn't even that good < 1203537654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only know up to 2^16 and 2^32 < 1203537692 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use some little pseudo song I learned when I was little < 1203537694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 2^17 is 131072, then I know up to 2^17 and 2^32 < 1203537700 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discovered that it was useful! < 1203537714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was from memory too, but I'm not sure it's correct < 1203537714 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "One and one, two, two and two, four, four and four, eight...3 < 1203537718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1203537733 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I do fucking binary < 1203537741 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know basically no powers of two < 1203537747 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even 2? < 1203537778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most esolangers know 256 and 65536, or should do < 1203537814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :59049 is also worth knowing, but that's a power of 3 < 1203537815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maximum value of the main data type in TriINTERCAL and Malbolge) < 1203537815 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, useful when you're programming in Malbolge! < 1203537815 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not < 1203537815 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that 3^9? < 1203537815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i know 256 and 65536 < 1203537815 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know 1. < 1203537824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows 1/2 < 1203537832 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know :(( < 1203537832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know up to 2^13 counting on my fingers, and know of 65536 < 1203537847 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many fingers do you have? < 1203537852 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you count to 2^13? < 1203537868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one question I once asked at a maths camp: what's the largest prime you can write in decimal from memory? < 1203537873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First finger 2^1, second 2^2, etc < 1203537890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the 'in decimal' prevents you memorising a formula but not its expansion as a number) < 1203537894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it's 65537 < 1203537911 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1203537916 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd agree with ais < 1203537937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know 65537 was a prime, tbh, but that should be easy to remember < 1203537961 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, 65539 is also prime, but that's incidental < 1203537970 0 :habnabit_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say 65,536 is the largest power of two that's easy to remember. < 1203537972 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it end-of-file in fuckingbigASCII? < 1203537993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: thanks, I now have a new largest memorised prime number < 1203538001 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know any primes :( < 1203538003 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 7 i think < 1203538015 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think also. < 1203538016 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally i let a computer tell me what they are... i have not had much use for memorizing them < 1203538030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 7 < 1203538030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7: 7 < 1203538034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, 7 is prime < 1203538112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..Who'd need to hesistate in saying that 7 is prime? < 1203538122 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1203538166 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.accesscom.com/~darius/hacks/factor.c I use this for factoring stuff < 1203538170 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably factor(1) is far more efficient < 1203538206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to find some LAY video to watch < 1203538210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any recommendations? < 1203538217 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAY? < 1203538223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look Around You < 1203538230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, why is factor in GNU coreutils < 1203538231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we were talking about it just before < 1203538234 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: all of them < 1203538243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as being a bit specific-purpose to be there < 1203538243 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend the first season. < 1203538244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'cause gnu utilities are clusterfucks of non-designedness? :p < 1203538250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, yes yes < 1203538253 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: and the computer episode of the second < 1203538258 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1203538265 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I lolled. < 1203538269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the Sulpher one having some cool stuff < 1203538269 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LOOK AROUND YOG" < 1203538274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sulphur < 1203538282 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, factor.c is kind of crappy.. < 1203538286 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only handles unsigned longs < 1203538288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0dyvoVV5Tk Look Around You - Sulphur < 1203538317 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally < 1203538320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that darius guy is crazy < 1203538322 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.accesscom.com/~darius/hacks/ichbins.tar.gz < 1203538334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scheme->c self-hosting compiler written in around 6 pages of scheme < 1203538337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of which is the c prelude < 1203538339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and postlude < 1203538367 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203538370 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more lispy than scheme < 1203538371 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1203538574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the magnet experiment, did the heating of the magnet ruin it, preventing it from attracting the iron, or something? < 1203538608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it not real iron, or was the magnet weak anyway? < 1203538618 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it matter? < 1203538724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Sulphagne < 1203538857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if it was read < 1203538857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real < 1203538914 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the HELVETICA EFFECT? < 1203538930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203538942 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY7XH2ulTEU < 1203538978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Calcium, not really connected to Sulphagne < 1203539070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"no apparent reason" < 1203539116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Man has been using Iron since the Stone Age < 1203539118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1203539153 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to bend a spoon with the power of his imagination < 1203539306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Bumcivillian isn't to useful for going to sleep, if its effect diminishes quickly < 1203539433 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203539479 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203539656 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you live Sgeo? < 1203539663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA < 1203539725 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be... between 9AM and 5AM? < 1203539765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:36P< < 1203539767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PM < 1203539769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now < 1203539773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's what you mean < 1203539787 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. It seems I forgot how to do substraction. < 1203539787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematical Anti Telharsic Harfatum Septomin" < 1203539797 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, who needs substraction when you have a computer! < 1203539814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 all < 1203539851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or if you can fly, planning your trajectory for your journey to work" < 1203539880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the journey < 1203539983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The finale takes place in Nottingham on April the 4th of September < 1203540096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants some Garry Gum < 1203540110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Anti-Garry Gum < 1203540595 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203540795 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203541074 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright folks, I'm out. < 1203541084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye wildhalcyon < 1203541091 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye sgeo < 1203541092 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1203541102 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1203541901 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/Dinosaurs.jpg < 1203541904 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaurs. < 1203541924 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The perfect representation for transformation groups. < 1203541962 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Man has been using Iron since the Stone Age" // what's this from? < 1203541973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, Look Around You < 1203541994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could have googled < 1203542014 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MOM < 1203542090 0 :habnabit_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203542114 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sleep" < 1203542316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdZHnDDjf6w < 1203542969 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, look around you! < 1203542991 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203543000 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10: print LOOK AROUND YOU < 1203543006 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20: GOTO 10 < 1203543047 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second series is pretty great as well < 1203543121 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1203543130 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me think, I never finished my Peano calculator < 1203543210 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brown iron, or 'bumcivilian'" < 1203543311 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah- the "face shackle", worn by petty criminals < 1203544034 0 :habnabit_!n=habnabit@adsl-99-146-94-22.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203544042 0 :habnabit_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203544583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1203545316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203545325 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54426605.l6.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203545376 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1203545381 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Redivider implementation yet? < 1203545446 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. Government secret. < 1203546910 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. That µ thingy is bothersome for I/O. < 1203546997 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly. < 1203546998 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode. < 1203547002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µnicode. < 1203547078 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not that bothersome < 1203547087 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since I'm pretty horrible at coding, it is. < 1203547137 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will agree with that < 1203547148 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: just < 1203547148 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you'd say "" < 1203547148 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say u"" < 1203547150 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, ask in #python on how to read files in unicode < 1203547152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're done < 1203547165 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that got to do with unicode? < 1203547176 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I say µ, I mean µ recursive functions < 1203547179 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little man. < 1203547220 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's time for some pen and paper coding, I do believe. < 1203547227 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't code without paper. < 1203547229 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant outputting µ. < 1203547232 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: also < 1203547236 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy bird use monads for IO yet? < 1203547241 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will make all your troubles disappear < 1203547260 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slacked quite a bit these past weeks < 1203547260 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't read Haskell < 1203547286 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a hard time staying focused on something. < 1203547682 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's my pen, bitch < 1203547802 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Wonder if I'll have to use monads too for µlambda < 1203548017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203548030 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn those functional languages! < 1203549473 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the µ function even computable in a general case? < 1203549505 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems strange to me. < 1203549601 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203549637 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203549976 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definition of the unbounded μ operator in terms of an abstract machine" < 1203549980 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you Wikipedia! < 1203550158 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203550168 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203550531 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the µ function? < 1203550550 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey -- who here is interested in Be Your Funge? < 1203550569 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be your funge for a dollar 99, wink wink < 1203550612 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µ function : µyf(y, x1, x2, ...) = smallest value of y such that f(stuff) = 0 < 1203550617 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 0 if no such value exists. < 1203550655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: uncomputable < 1203550659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1203550681 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I'm scratching my head. < 1203550696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? its uncomputable, get over it < 1203550714 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's supposed to be part of the holy trinity of the recursive functions. < 1203550721 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first system to be Turing complete. < 1203550756 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading Kleene. < 1203550759 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain me Kleene! < 1203550762 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1203550764 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying to tell me! < 1203550765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is computable < 1203550768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_operator < 1203550772 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example #3 < 1203550781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is written in kind-of-assembly language < 1203550781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should be easy < 1203550827 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It be hard readin'. < 1203550837 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm, that's pretty light readin' < 1203550838 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go slowlt < 1203550839 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I suppose it is. < 1203550840 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slowly < 1203550996 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The unbounded μ operator will continue this attempt-to-match process ad infinitum or until a match occurs." < 1203551002 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my problem. < 1203551086 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ad infinitum" - sounds like the seed of turing completeness < 1203551118 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as long as it doesn't need to check if y actually exists, I guess I'll be okay. < 1203551121 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: So it doesn't halt until it finds one; and loops forever if there is none. < 1203551298 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203551298 0 :Tritonio__!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203551313 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Lazy K dude was onto something with that referential transparency! < 1203551328 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203551714 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Mister ehird`. < 1203551722 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird mister. < 1203551756 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I use sum Monads, will I be able to read each function lazily ? < 1203551802 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the current idea, it seems like a lot of bothers. < 1203551818 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't rely on the combinators nice one-argument-each < 1203551824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Monads allow you to do everything lazy. < 1203551841 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'd better go back on Haskell < 1203551843 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the nature of the functions that run them create data dependencies < 1203551850 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the evaluator is forced to evaluate the IO stuff in sequence < 1203551911 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pretend to understand and go read the tutorial. < 1203552045 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: basically < 1203552062 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a monadic option linking output, getting a line, some pure stuff, and outputting another line, < 1203552084 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pure stuff is done lazily but the IO depends on the previous one so the evaluator HAS to do it in order < 1203552088 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while requiring no changes < 1203552134 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if the output is itself a function? < 1203552173 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will basically be like this. You've got 0, you've got + for successor, a bunch of functions. < 1203552175 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203552179 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Look < 1203552181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just go into #haskell < 1203552184 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ask loads of questions < 1203552184 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203552193 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared. < 1203552202 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's people there. Talking about Haskell. < 1203552205 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell is the friendliest programming language channel around < 1203552214 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell was that black guy in cube Zero. Killed the fat guy! < 1203552226 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm nuts and Neil's a nut, therefor I am NEILS!" < 1203552581 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION be printing the Haskell tutorial < 1203552642 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: YAHT? < 1203552652 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wiki one < 1203552669 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203552670 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1203552671 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do YAHT < 1203552673 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1203552691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, i shoved you into #haskell < 1203552696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry. we don't bite. :) < 1203552810 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1203552881 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203552885 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: boo! talk! < 1203552935 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAHT is printing. < 1203552941 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :192 pages, it's going to be a while. < 1203552979 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing? :S < 1203553003 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, throwing ink on paper in shapes < 1203553033 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: why not just read it < 1203553051 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you want me to read that on a screen? < 1203553057 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1203553057 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203553066 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a nice big font and a good pdf reader < 1203553068 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's comfy < 1203553077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to do YAHT interactively, anyway. it's best. < 1203553079 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My chair isn't that comfy though. < 1203553117 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to do it away from a computer ...?! < 1203553120 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll never learn Haskell! < 1203553123 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1203553130 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to have Emacs and ghci there, open. :-P < 1203553142 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Emacs :o < 1203553146 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Kate. < 1203553200 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has Haskell highlighting. < 1203553217 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs!? you *never* need emacs :P < 1203553243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that you need Emacs. < 1203553264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to live, either. < 1203553329 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does macs have besides highlighting? < 1203553368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: emacs is the only solution for haskell code < 1203553372 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some people use vim (masochists) < 1203553380 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why! < 1203553383 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: haskell's syntax is indentation-based < 1203553388 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very tedious to do manually < 1203553392 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-mode for emacs is VERY smart < 1203553395 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203553398 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has an integrated ghci < 1203553400 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a bottom pane < 1203553402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all sorts of stuff < 1203553413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, haskell development without it is 99% repetetive key mashing < 1203553414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203553450 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's get them Emacs then. < 1203553506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1203553520 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: sudo apt-get install emacs-snapshot-gtk emacs-goodies-el < 1203553529 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will get you the best emacs for general use < 1203553530 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need. < 1203553534 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Adept installer" < 1203553535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203553536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203553536 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203553539 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets you the wrong emacs < 1203553540 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an older one < 1203553542 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no goodies < 1203553543 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1203553553 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame ubuntu < 1203553553 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203553564 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you Ubuntu! < 1203553791 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No space left on device" < 1203553791 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENTOLOGY: < 1203553792 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep thetans /dev/soul | xargs rm -rf < 1203553793 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shi- < 1203553958 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203554072 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems my porn folder is hogging space on the Linux partition! < 1203554077 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to move it < 1203554300 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has Emacs < 1203554334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The right one? < 1203554350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then you have emacs in some menu somewhere. < 1203554359 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start it, then type 'C-h t' (CTRL-h, t) < 1203554364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow it through. < 1203554368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you know how to use emacs. :P < 1203554439 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Middle of page left blank for didactic purposes. Text continues below] < 1203554446 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That statement is so self-defeating < 1203554456 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: whatever. < 1203554459 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do what it says < 1203554461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else :P < 1203554470 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and throw your mouse to the back of your desk until you're done. < 1203554508 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Mousey! < 1203554579 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use ctrl x-c-v for something else than copypasta? < 1203554584 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What madhouse is this! < 1203554656 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The madhouse of productivity and speed. < 1203554664 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SAYIN' < 1203554669 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Slereah ... < 1203554675 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say goodbye to your arrow keys. < 1203554681 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1203554683 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-N, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-F, Ctrl-B are your gods now. < 1203554705 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: emacs came around before any of these things that you're used to existed. It's not just difference for the sake of it; and most people who use emacs today find them nicer.) < 1203554720 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emacs came around circa 1980s at MIT.) < 1203554723 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I don't? < 1203554735 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203554758 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already not that fond of remembering which alt key actually works < 1203554794 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: You've used emacs for about 5 minutes, and even then not much. < 1203554794 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203554794 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've used ctrl x-c-v, and the arrow keys, your entire computing experience. < 1203554795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you're not faster yet. < 1203554821 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arrow keys seems to work fine on their own though < 1203554865 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: No. < 1203554871 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do function < 1203554874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you shouldn't use them. < 1203554875 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't. < 1203554881 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make your hands move more. < 1203554895 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does the bfnp :o < 1203554914 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not even in a cluster, or with some logic in their disposition. < 1203554962 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Back,Forwards,Next,Previous < 1203554966 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And.. you can touch-type, right? < 1203554985 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1203554993 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home row? < 1203554999 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then you'll get used to it pretty quickly. < 1203555004 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home row? < 1203555008 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203555010 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghjkl < 1203555013 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know? < 1203555022 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not. < 1203555024 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the dent on f and j.. < 1203555029 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you keep your fingers there... < 1203555033 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| you can't touch-type, can you < 1203555036 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean aieo htns? :P < 1203555043 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i doubt Slereah uses dvorak. < 1203555048 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he doesn't know how to touch-type. < 1203555062 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, just saying... < 1203555065 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use AZERTY. < 1203555080 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I indeed don't need to look much at it. < 1203555101 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I keep my eyes on the screen. Once in a while, I'm one key off and write gibberish. < 1203555138 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Do you keep your fingers onthe middle row? < 1203555145 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And never stray from it, just moving your fingers to the keys? < 1203555152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not -- you can't touch-type. Go learn that, first. < 1203555167 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not do that, no. < 1203555178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Can you please be my window of sanity? < 1203555256 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Please? :( < 1203555258 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity!? mind you, it is in #esoteric you're asking this question < 1203555272 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: More than Slereah? < 1203555330 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really touch-type though... more like mostly-hitting-the-right-key < 1203555356 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1203555374 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here. And really, I'm not sure I need to learn sum touch typing. < 1203555380 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in a speed competition. < 1203555392 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly keep my fingers at the home row, but often happen to use some other position... which happens to work since I know where my fingers are < 1203555424 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even use moar than two fingers :o < 1203555432 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, coding on a swedish keyboard require a lot of AltGr:ing < 1203555456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latex is especially gruesome, {[]}\~ all being AltGr combinations < 1203555460 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: what? you type with TWO FINGERS?! < 1203555461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunt and peck?! < 1203555465 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203555467 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do. < 1203555469 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck did you get into esolangs. < 1203555484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: lol D: < 1203555489 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I can type fast enough. < 1203555491 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the need for an ultra-terse language? heh < 1203555517 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, I don't need to type fast for esolangs. < 1203555527 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you as sad as i am < 1203555527 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who codes in brainfuck as fast as he types? < 1203555529 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1203555617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: nope < 1203555621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sad < 1203555637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a guy who uses two fingers and types error-free, and as fast as me < 1203555668 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After using the keyboard for ten years, you know where the keys are! < 1203555668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't type error-free, not on the computer, not on paper. < 1203555710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not that i typo, i just simply write wrong letters. < 1203555818 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"K-Lined by peer" < 1203555851 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was too much for him. < 1203555920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts forcing down "April 4th of September" down people's throats < 1203556214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw. are you going to start something new after psox? < 1203556228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"after PSOX"? < 1203556240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably lose interest and go back to SL or something < 1203556249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sl? < 1203556264 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second Life. < 1203556281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203556298 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might not know your computer stuff, but I sure know the nerd stuff! < 1203556347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea about anything. < 1203557225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is DeVeDe slow? < 1203557238 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whut? < 1203557296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeVeDe == DVD video making thingy < 1203557304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems to be SLOW < 1203557310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it is converting from flv.. < 1203558166 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's hungry < 1203564591 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-139.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203565419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203565546 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, did anyone actually see these? < 1203565547 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203488516-art1.png < 1203565551 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203488528-art2.png < 1203565602 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203565610 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo didn't. < 1203565659 0 :AlliedEnvy!n=AlliedEn@150.208.201.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203565798 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, here's a really old comic from several years ago: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203565552-urge.gif < 1203565824 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qdb.us/143471 < 1203565858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your name's John? < 1203565902 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, since when did the qdb auto-accept shit? < 1203565907 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: correct < 1203565919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then. . . Why Rodger? < 1203565930 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complicated < 1203565964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Complicated', as in 'requires a small doctoral dissertation'? < 1203565999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Ouch; that keyboard sounds horrible for coding. < 1203566061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers his US keyboard < 1203566065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AltGr? Bah. < 1203566072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift at the most. < 1203566081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, it doesn't do more than ASCII. . . ;) < 1203566099 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your name's john and your address is somewhere near Townsend Drive, Houghton, MI 49931-1295, USA < 1203566110 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1203566117 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make it no secret that I go to MTU < 1203566121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that's where the dorms are? < 1203566136 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even use the MTU directory search to dig up more info on me, like my room phone number! Woo! < 1203566142 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh....[16:53] ->> RodgerTheGreat is n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu (Rodger) < 1203566155 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'course, I don't have a phone plugged in, so your options will be limited < 1203566172 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as anonymity on the internet < 1203566179 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tor? < 1203566189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonet? < 1203566381 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there appears to be at least one car driving around near mtu. Not that's important information. < 1203566404 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, there are quite a few for the middle of the night. < 1203566477 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty cold over there, isn't it? < 1203566483 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, rather < 1203566524 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-14 degrees C < 1203566545 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no comments on any of those images aside from creepy internet detective activity? < 1203566667 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the images < 1203566813 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-224-108.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203566820 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, GreaseMonkey < 1203566844 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1203568553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn;t what? < 1203568557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, brb < 1203572289 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203572408 0 :Tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203573123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203573798 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203575041 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203575086 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203575143 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1203575511 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203575539 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203579972 0 :bsmntbombdood__!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203580036 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1203580038 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1203580799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203580800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203581029 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203581402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1203582159 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. thx." < 1203582764 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1203584199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203586938 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203590742 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203591317 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203599102 0 :uvanta!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203599771 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203601662 0 :smg!n=stephan@88.198.164.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203601690 0 :smg!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203602070 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host12-80-dynamic.19-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203604169 0 :uvanta_!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203605290 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203605903 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203605907 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203608101 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203609744 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203610733 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1203611041 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye..." < 1203611198 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203611330 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host12-80-dynamic.19-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1203612627 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203613219 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203613240 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203613979 0 :AlliedEnvy!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203614800 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203615790 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203615923 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1203616679 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203616920 0 :RedDak!n=dak@79.2.89.240 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203617378 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1203617400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Is this the esoteric programming languages channel on freenode? < 1203617437 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This is NOT the esoteric programming languages channel on freenode? < 1203617881 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This channel has no relationship to the world hub for esoteric language design and development. < 1203618078 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This channel has no relationship to the world hub for esoteric language design and development, the world hub for esoteric language design and development is not even mentioned in the topic. < 1203618100 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice one < 1203618607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric powers esoteric languages? < 1203618610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homespring! < 1203618952 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203618979 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting question, < 1203618981 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who knows the value for the type of a lisp source file?" < 1203619013 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1203619038 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My lisp experience is limited to "What's that language with all the parentheses? Lisp? Oh" < 1203619041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This channel is now officially closed. Please proceed to ##overflow. < 1203619049 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1203619049 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203619079 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: I'd really recommend changing improving that :o < 1203619091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203619092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1203619095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn haskell! < 1203619100 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is way too much fun to miss out < 1203619105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203619108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haskell is more fun < 1203619113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can write lisp in haskell trivially if you want that < 1203619117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way around, not so much < 1203619134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo lisp is the prototype, haskell is the result (version 1 :-P) < 1203619137 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird if you think so... maybe you can help fix my haskell code :P < 1203619146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: i'll try. < 1203619148 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I find the reverse of hwat you said < 1203619162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: what, you can write a haskell compiler in lisp trivially? < 1203619182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp isn't a functional language for one < 1203619185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is < 1203619200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell's syntax, while not as minimal as lisps, is just as simple and elegant < 1203619209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell has macros, because they're just functions, thanks to laziness < 1203619217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their syntax is low-fat too -- no (lambda ...) < 1203619248 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was not talking about compilers (I didn't think you were either) < 1203619252 0 :uvanta_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally agree with ehird < 1203619257 0 :uvanta_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is way too cool < 1203619264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203619270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too cool! it must be banned! < 1203619306 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not care for the syntax comparison < 1203619356 0 :uvanta_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in here S Korea, there's not much people being aware of haskell < 1203619367 0 :uvanta_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even no single haskell book written in Korean < 1203619368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: syntax is fundamental to a language's style < 1203619391 0 :uvanta_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :uvanta < 1203619518 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better: < 1203619527 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Sorry, this channel is full. Please proceed to ##overflow. < 1203619564 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, haskell rules, lisp drools! < 1203619573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You've reached this channel because the channel you tried to enter has been configured with join throttling (+J). There may be a clonebot attack in progress there, or simply unusually heavy interest. Please leave this channel and try again. Your channel may also be "identified-only" (+r); join #please_register for more information. If you need help, message a freenode staffer or email staff@freenode.net .... Thanks! < 1203619584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i win < 1203619628 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203619702 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe you guys are dissing lisp.. < 1203619710 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :academics!!! < 1203619735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: i am not < 1203619739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am saying that haskell is superior < 1203619748 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well have fun with your lambda calculus and type theory while I write web apps! < 1203619770 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus is from lisp < 1203619785 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, miranda derived it from lisp < 1203619791 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell derived it from miranda < 1203619899 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's kind of irrelevant but my opinion is if you don't know Lisp you are missing out on something really great < 1203619935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: i'm writing a web app in haskell right now < 1203619950 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just being silly < 1203619954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and text.xhtml + network.fastcgi + a strongly typed database query module is far superior to any lisp shit you have < 1203619955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1203619962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i know lisp < 1203619980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, i have memorized all the syntax, semantics and procedures in r5rs < 1203619981 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, It's not superior, It's what you're finding more fun to work with at this point in time < 1203619987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the equiv in common lisp < 1203619989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some more < 1203619993 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was joking with all this arc fuss around at the present < 1203620010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: well, actually, that toolkit is far superior to any lisp web app framework that has been built yet. < 1203620047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it makes me *warm* and *fuzzy* is just a nice extra < 1203620054 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard you can ensure W3C compliance of XML/XHTML in the type system < 1203620078 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. currently, you gotta restart the server just to make upgrades to the site? < 1203620117 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANGUAGE WAR < 1203620125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: no way < 1203620133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell development server < 1203620136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recompiles as it goes < 1203620150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're done, you just compile yourself a binary, static or dynamic, and upload it to your server < 1203620157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add the fastcgi info to your ws config and you're done < 1203620169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no reloads of the server < 1203620175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just once you push out a new major change, restart the fcgi server < 1203620178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is as simple as SIGHUP < 1203620193 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so you have to restart the server.. < 1203620196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can ensure w3c compliance in the type system; but that would make Text.XHtml be absolutely crazy < 1203620198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: no < 1203620201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want performance, yes < 1203620208 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not superior to the lisp setup I had < 1203620209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just run a dynamically reloading WS on the server. < 1203620214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203620216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1203620230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% of development time is PUSHING OUT MAJOR CHANGES ONTO YOUR SERVER WHICH TAKES 10 HOURS TO RESTART < 1203620254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: have you thought about the performance overhead of your lisp setup? < 1203620257 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, nah I use both languages < 1203620272 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like lisp because it's ugly < 1203620292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially functions ending in things like p and f < 1203620305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disgusting < 1203620306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's not there in scheme < 1203620310 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know! < 1203620313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does have mutation and predicate annotations.. < 1203620315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? and ! < 1203620316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't ugly < 1203620319 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203620322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is much prettier < 1203620322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (number? x) < 1203620325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set! x y) < 1203620352 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but scheme has terrible standartization problems < 1203620359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standardization < 1203620363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r6rs seems ... kind of ok < 1203620371 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a bit too much of a superficial view < 1203620377 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than most esoteric languages. They usually have terrible bastardization problems < 1203620385 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the names of some constants is not the matter < 1203620409 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be dissin' the eso dude. < 1203620432 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a bastardized language creator, I'm not dissin', just telling it like it is. < 1203620435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: aesthetics are important < 1203620446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: actually the main reason i haven't ever seriously tried lisp is the perceived lack of a good environment, and a perceived necessity for having one < 1203620447 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203620454 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your esolangs? < 1203620462 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamet, SLIME < 1203620470 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: ie, haskell doesn't feel like you need to have a huge environment in which to work with it; a text editor and ghc is enough < 1203620474 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lisp does < 1203620482 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unfortunately such environments tend to be emacs-based < 1203620487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but emacs, haskell-mode&inf-haskell, and ghc helps < 1203620487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1203620498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not a fan of emacs < 1203620502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1203620541 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1203620554 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare with squeak... now that's an environment :) < 1203620646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squeak is awesome < 1203620648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, kind of < 1203620652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is awesome < 1203620723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, even if the environment did exists, something feels wrong about a language _needing_ one :) < 1203620738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels just right for squeak though < 1203620768 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's barely a programming language in squeak < 1203620877 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/pch.html < 1203620970 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastardization! < 1203621207 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell... its lazy evaluation is... elegant < 1203621227 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its code is... beautiful < 1203621276 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i'm doing a part-time job using php and it SUCKS < 1203621281 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss haskell < 1203621332 0 :zacuan!i=oklofok@dsl-tkubras1-ff38c300-179.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1203621345 0 :zacuan!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203621346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uur, php < 1203621452 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to join that language war but i couldn't since ehird was saying everything i want to say before me < 1203621468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1203621469 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it was a war.. < 1203621479 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like both languages < 1203621487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uvanta: unfortunately, if i actually said that before you said it, that would just be strange, because it makes no sense when i say it < 1203621529 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you say < 1203621566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uvanta: shit, the next line is 'all your base are belong to us' < 1203621568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make me say that < 1203621570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cruel < 1203621595 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the next line is 'you have no chance to survive make your time' < 1203621601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1203621602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203621605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203621607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just did that. < 1203621643 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really understand what's going on but... i'm sorry < 1203622055 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was my fault :/ < 1203623337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203623448 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have any suggestions for what sort of commands an assembly language should contain? < 1203623476 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that will play the Super Mario theme on the PC speaker. < 1203623483 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To answer your question, I don't know. < 1203623518 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subleq ? < 1203623518 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203623522 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1203623523 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1203623524 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSSB < 1203623534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crispy < 1203623536 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite sure where to go with it < 1203623584 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards 32-bit, but 64-bit might work also. < 1203623698 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably need some sort of memory management instructions. < 1203623704 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all the usual stack instructions. < 1203624146 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203624175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: why not the MAX instruction? < 1203624178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see MiniMAX on the wiki < 1203624200 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is watching you type < 1203624209 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makin' me look up stuff... with the thing... < 1203624217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I was reading the logs and decided I wanted to join the conversation < 1203624227 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203624247 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what would the MAX instruction do then? < 1203624252 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you read them in real-time? < 1203624264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wildhalcyon: it can be expressed as MOVSW LODSW ADD SI,AX XCHG SI,DI in x86 assembly language < 1203624270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how long until you invent a log client that doesn't require an external log service and updates in real time without refreshing? < 1203624278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in another version add support for sending messages? < 1203624295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it copies one datum from the source to the destination pointers (which have to be set up beforehand), incrementing each pointer < 1203624297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p.s., it's really weird when someone joins and replies to a question asked minutes before they joined :P) < 1203624316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then adds the datum at the source pointer to the source pointer, and increments it < 1203624321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then swaps the source and data pointers < 1203624334 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the benefit of doing that now? < 1203624340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: minutes? I've replied to questions asked days earlier on occasion < 1203624347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: the instruction is TC by itself < 1203624349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not as creepy < 1203624360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even need arguments... < 1203624362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but replying something asked minutes before seconds after joining.. < 1203624365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is creepy < 1203624366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203624367 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well.. that's almost useful then < 1203624372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just memory to be set up correctly beforehand < 1203624377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, if it requires no arguments, then ... oh < 1203624378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203624388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can pass around minimax programs really easily < 1203624399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file = memory ... sentinel code ... < 1203624400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1203624410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code = length of source encoded in base-255 < 1203624421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since MAX MAX MAX ... is just unary < 1203624422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1203624434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally treat the program as being the contents of memory before the interp is run < 1203624444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203624450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in DOS, you just append the program to the interp and it dutifully loads it into memory at the right place < 1203624483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 14-byte interp on the wiki that works like that (no I/O, though) < 1203624529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even handles quitting when you jump to a location 270 bytes (that is, 135 words) before the start of the program < 1203624554 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it, no wonder I'm confused. < 1203624580 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant regular wikipedia... didn't pay attention where you said "on THE wiki"... < 1203624605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally mean Esolang when I say 'wiki' on this channel without a qualifier < 1203624618 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not blaming you. It was my error < 1203625184 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, ais. I really don't understand miniMAX. < 1203625190 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get Fractran, but not miniMAX < 1203625332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of hard to explain < 1203625342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example makes it just-about possible for other people to understand sometimes < 1203625378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each command alters the previous command, and sets the distance between the command after it and the command before it < 1203625407 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of get that part, but I don't get how its set up I guess. < 1203625415 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, its not really helpful for my assembly language. < 1203625446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: the program is just loaded into memory, and the docs for the interp define where the 1st and 0th commands start < 1203625448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't portable < 1203625458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was simply designed for very small TCness < 1203625466 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1203625484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course the 14-byte interp isn't TC because it can only address 64K memory, because it's a DOS .COM file) < 1203626070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am trying to write a fixed-point function in C < 1203626073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not believe it is possible < 1203626077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without inline asm < 1203626093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you mean by 'fixed-point function' in this context? < 1203626100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would inline asm help? < 1203626112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can do closures and stuff with inline asm < 1203626114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ais523 -- < 1203626132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix(F) => fun(...) => F(fix(F))(...) < 1203626196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the naive implementation gives you an infinite loop because C is eager < 1203626211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading something about an eager implementation of Y, though, I may have to look it up < 1203626221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: c does not have closures < 1203626224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot code the y combinator in it < 1203626231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1203626233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eager Y is Z: < 1203626251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z = \f. (\x. f (\y. x x y)) (\x. f (\y. x x y)) < 1203626269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the point is you cannot return the appropriate function < 1203626278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that iz, < 1203626279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1203626280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Z(f), < 1203626285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f cannot return something meaningful < 1203626331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus is kind of tricky in C anyway, what with the total absence of a lambda operation < 1203626340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's impossible. < 1203626343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus uses closures. < 1203626346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c does not have closures. < 1203626353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short of writing an interpreter; you cannot do lambda calculus in C. < 1203626437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant by 'kind of tricky' < 1203626447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in JavaScript, OTOH, it's built into the language < 1203626451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that acts kind of like C at a distance < 1203626505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: speaking of which < 1203626515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you reduce haskell to: < 1203626523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a basic type system that at a glance looks like it, < 1203626530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplified version of the syntax, < 1203626534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just standard lazy evaluation < 1203626543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only a few standard things (like, an IO monad) < 1203626551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how short do you think an interpreter could be written? < 1203626574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1203626586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.laserpirate.com/tinyml.html tiny ml in <700 lines < 1203626589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i think not too much < 1203626593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a minimal Prelude, maybe a kilobyte or two < 1203626610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... 2K is the IOCCC size threshold < 1203626617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4K counting whitespace) < 1203626624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C is not a very good language for golfing < 1203626712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I topped up anagolf to shinh's requested 5 problems at a time < 1203626723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and got several entries within a couple of minutes of posting the problem < 1203626770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i meant < 1203626773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOC < 1203626774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly < 1203626783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes is more fun < 1203626787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203626791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes mean nothing to me < 1203626797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's possible to write a Haskell interp in 1 line of code, in Brainfuck < 1203626866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because newline has no meaning to a Brainfuck implementation, or ought not to < 1203626888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I came across a BF interp online that errored on any characters not in ,.<>[]+-, and also errored on EOF) < 1203626905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure most BF standards would therefore not consider it conforming) < 1203626949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean reasonable looking code. < 1203626951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1203626963 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1203626976 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make a factorial on LB. < 1203626989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LB? < 1203626990 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I feel I'm recreating an imperative version of the factorial < 1203626995 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy Bird. < 1203626999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy Bird, presumably < 1203627033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: in Unlambda-like languages, the iterative and recursive versions of factorial tend to come out identical < 1203627061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when you translate the loop of the iterative version into a recursive function so that it can be expressed in the language, you end up with code identical to the recursive version < 1203627074 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea so far is using an ordered pair, first element being the result, second being what's left. < 1203627078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you make the loop count downwards to make the termination condition easy < 1203627082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, all factoring programs i've found say their algorithm is dumb < 1203627087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why don't they improve it?! :| < 1203627110 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So factorial 5 would start out as <1,5> and finish on <120,0> < 1203627115 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1203627134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: both the recursive and iterative versions work like that < 1203627139 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203627142 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank goodness. < 1203627158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact they're so similar it's hard to tell the difference; on occasion they can be identical < 1203627171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the argument to a recursive function is an argument < 1203627193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a variable in an imperative version has to be converted to an argument to be remembered between iterations of the loop < 1203627199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the two functions end up the same < 1203627318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I just read your note about the difficulty of I/O in Lazy Bird < 1203627334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of monad is generally the best option in pure lazy languages < 1203627335 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to tell me about monads? < 1203627375 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203627381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monad would be a bit hard to implement in an efficient form in Lazy Bird because input would need to return two arguments and output would need to take two arguments < 1203627405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking two arguments is fine due to currying, but returning two would mean some sort of officially sanctioned version of an ordered pair < 1203627438 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my first thought was to use some sort of function > such that ``>[A][B] converts to `[A][B] and then B is evaluated < 1203627466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some sort of eageriser < 1203627477 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Anti-d. < 1203627483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind of hard to ensure that the eageriser runs at the right time, because it would itself be lazy < 1203627498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more importantly the thing running it would be lazy < 1203627503 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a third choice? < 1203627505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program would have to be full of eagerisers < 1203627512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, i learned a disturbing thing yesterday < 1203627518 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the problem I saw. < 1203627521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Y combinator cannot be typed in any language that does not allow arbitary recursive types < 1203627523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, with them, < 1203627531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every lambda calculus term can be typed as "a = a -> a" < 1203627538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, strong typing is destroyed < 1203627602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit exaggerated i think < 1203627633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thinking about monads in general... suppose you write infinite cat (that doesn't terminate on EOF) in a language like Haskell < 1203627664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1203627690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do it by constructing an infinite list of commands input >>= \x -> output x >> input >>= \x -> output x >> input and so on, is there any guarantee that any of the commands actually runs rather than the interp spending an infinite length of time constructing the list without evaluating any of the monad-chained functions? < 1203627699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list of commands, that is < 1203627709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's true < 1203627715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's from #haskell, too :P < 1203627725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, yes < 1203627729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ... that construction is lazy < 1203627730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203627743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an issue as to what is more lazy, the I/O or the list construction < 1203627743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hm, there may have to be a type that every term can be type with < 1203627747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter executes as little as possible of the chain creation, runs that action, does it again, etc < 1203627751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1203627753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it,. < 1203627767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call the lambda calculus function type T. < 1203627774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now every LC function takes an LC function and produces an LC function. < 1203627775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T = T -> T < 1203627792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = a -> a < 1203627794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version of intersection types i read about that could type every weakly normalizing term used an omega for it. no other recursive types necessary < 1203627797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a = a -> a) is the type of all LC terms, and will type in a language that can type Y, thus strong typing is destroyed. < 1203627852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that type is not necessarily in your system < 1203627862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to type Y, it must be < 1203627869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because: < 1203627873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y :: (omega -> a) -> a was one legal type for Y, i think < 1203627893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y takes a function, and returns (let's say -- a) < 1203627907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: note that a system need not have principal types. it may be that you need a different type for Y dependent on what you apply it to < 1203627913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if we say that Y is equiv. to '\f -> f (Y f)', then, what type is passed to the function? < 1203627914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, is the topic a real error message that can actually come up, or was it just faked to look realistic? < 1203627921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the return type of Y f, that's what. < 1203627931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the function returns some value 'b' -- but this must be the same value passed to a < 1203627939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We get (a -> a) -> a, but that's just the fixed point type < 1203627947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you read the actual lambda definition of Y, it has an infinite type. < 1203627959 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1203627960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you are assuming a system in which everything has exactly one type < 1203627978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming a sane system? well, that's odd. < 1203627996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are _many_ interesting systems without that property < 1203628009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: noticing when you've made assumptions and acting a different way is a good way to come up with an interesting esolang < 1203628030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: random note -- you used to code ocaml right? < 1203628041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i tell the ocaml repl to load an ocaml source file and let me access its variables? < 1203628050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a little bit < 1203628071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open ? my memory is vague < 1203628137 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's going to add > < 1203628146 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it will be easy to insert in the interpreter. < 1203628178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1203628179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think the repl syntax in ocaml is almost identical to file syntax < 1203628179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml -rectypes < 1203628180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : ('a -> 'a) -> 'a = < 1203628183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see no recursive type there < 1203628184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for Y) < 1203628218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it doesn't actually run of course < 1203628274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another legal type for Y in that intersection system would be Y :: ((omega -> a) /\ (a -> b)) -> b < 1203628298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on, for any chain of types starting with omega < 1203628304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm, how do i explicitly type annotate an ocaml function? < 1203628313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i know that, then I'm going to go fsck up ocaml's type system < 1203628327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: with : somewhere < 1203628334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere < 1203628334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1203628343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly just before the = < 1203628373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I just convinced ocaml that 'a -> 'a is a valid type for Y. < 1203628381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1203628381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : ('a -> 'a as 'a) -> 'a = < 1203628389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i typed the argument < 1203628393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203628394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be < 1203628425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that precedence right? try parenthese around ('a -> 'a) to be sure < 1203628430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1203628435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let y : ('a -> 'a) = < 1203628497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1203628503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A as B" is "B = A" < 1203628507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Y.sii;; < 1203628507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : ('a -> 'b as 'a) -> 'b = < 1203628537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't put that in a source file heh < 1203628545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203628573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there should be a minihaskell for experimenting with stuff like this < 1203628577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i asked ais523 about earlier < 1203628584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not legal base syntax since basic ocaml does not allow -rectypes < 1203628584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess without layout, so the parser can be dirt simple < 1203628590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff. < 1203628594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i did -rectypes < 1203628595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hh < 1203628596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heh < 1203628602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, if we had a minihaskell < 1203628603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the basic is without it < 1203628607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could just add the a = b rule < 1203628613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop misinterpreting me! < 1203628640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y :: (a = a -> a) -> a < 1203628656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now wait < 1203628661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = \f -> (\x -> f (x x)) (\x -> f (x x));; < 1203628671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual type is (a -> a) -> a, for fix anyhow < 1203628704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but this encodes it better < 1203628705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you cannot get that building from just lambda terms with the usual type system < 1203628712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one kind of ignores the whole recursive 'a' thing < 1203628719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1203628720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are right < 1203628721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203628721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203628734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a nicer way of saying it (makes more sense to humans): < 1203628752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y :: (a -> b) -> b where a = b < 1203628787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :churchN :: a = (a -> a) -> a -> a;; < 1203628788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203628789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the amount of humans for which that makes more sense is a pretty thin sliver :D < 1203628797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, behaves the same as pure LC churches) < 1203628814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it avoids starting to read it as a normal type then having to backtrack to get the recursion < 1203628896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in System F (where everything terminates) forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> a is the type of _precisely_ the church numerals < 1203628928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aha, but that's not the LC church numerals < 1203628928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are more constraints on what can be passed in < 1203628930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System F btw does _not_ have principal types < 1203628955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anagolf should add emacs lisp < 1203628955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203628971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see Underload as well < 1203628978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: egotist < 1203628978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm biased < 1203628978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203629034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203629037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do stdout with elisp < 1203629056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it would be better to do it the same way as they did vi < 1203629071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input arrives in the buffer, output is the final version of the buffer < 1203629111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps typoing the word 'buffer' with g rather than f. It's probably because their finger doesn't move back far enough after pressing the 'b'... < 1203629128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, bugger. that must be bad. < 1203629142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(badum-tish) < 1203629152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is starting to get the impression from the topics that people here don't _want_ more channel members :D < 1203629153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily I've memorised backspace backspace f f as part of the way my fingers have learnt the word... < 1203629153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, hardly < 1203629161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the emacs functions for buffer stuff are hideously verbose < 1203629178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisp is hideously verbose as a language < 1203629180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quite :D < 1203629188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'format' isn't that wordy < 1203629202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (require 'cl) makes elisp quite terse < 1203629220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unaware of cl < 1203629262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cl=common lisp < 1203629266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every sane elisp coder uses it < 1203629269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if there are any,,) < 1203629278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, its a lot of useful stuff from CL < 1203629287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably anagolf would bundle it < 1203629306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since none of us is sane, why are you mentioning it? < 1203629313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have coded elisp before. I have never used the cl package, and I consider myself relatively sane, although some may disagree < 1203629322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that I'm in #esoteric is certainly evidence to the contrary < 1203629329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I meant 'sanity check' style :P < 1203629340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, then start using it. it's the only way to avoid dying at the hands of elisp < 1203629340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203629362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays I mostly only use elisp for writing major modes for esolangs < 1203629362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: maybe you mean coder of sane elisp, not sane coder of elisp? < 1203629372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, thank you < 1203629373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203629380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i have esolangs.el, btw? :P < 1203629386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on this computer < 1203629390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think I pasted it a while ago < 1203629392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1203629422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/894042 is the version I pasted, apparently < 1203629454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think that version has a bug in the BF indentation < 1203629473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, a strange-looking style choice where closing ] has to be on the same line as a lot of code to look sensible < 1203629498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, < 1203629504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should add (provide 'esolangs) < 1203629506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that seems to be the version with the indentation corrected < 1203629507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for just importing the lot < 1203629508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203629515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually probably the most recent version < 1203629519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a good idea < 1203629548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a direct load of that file and (esolangs-recognize-extensions) in my .emacs < 1203629570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you lowercase the brainfuck mode name? < 1203629572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then get annoyed when people insist on using .bf as an extension for Brainfuck files... < 1203629572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its purer < 1203629573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203629588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, you highlight ,. +- <> the asme < 1203629589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203629597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word "brainfuck" starts with a capital when at the start of a sentence < 1203629613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a modelien is not a sentence < 1203629625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modelines are generally written in title case < 1203629630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, every word initcaps < 1203629634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ais523, that does no indentation of brainfuck at all < 1203629635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203629637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, words like < 1203629648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (define-key brainfuck-mode-map "\r" 'esolangs-indent-newline-indent) < 1203629648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (define-key brainfuck-mode-map "\n" 'esolangs-indent-newline-indent) < 1203629650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad bad bad! < 1203629652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it ought to < 1203629652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that. < 1203629654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :override C-j. < 1203629656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not \r\n < 1203629657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1203629664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not \r\n. < 1203629672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should have a minor mode that works on all of them that overrides \r and \n as well < 1203629677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203629680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do that in their own .emacs < 1203629684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to auto-indent, which I use in other modes < 1203629691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: set it up in .emacs. < 1203629704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try (kbd ...) for keyboard keys < 1203629707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it in every mode though, I'm inconsistent < 1203629707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1203629709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kbd "RET") < 1203629709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point taken, though < 1203629711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kbd "C-j") < 1203629722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: example of indenting using brainfuckmode? < 1203629766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just typing the code in ought to work < 1203629776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[(C-j) < 1203629779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< < 1203629885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def[ < 1203629908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 20.4.1 < 1203629915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it ignroes the first level of indentation < 1203629916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1203629925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1203629931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it disables RET! < 1203629935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'indentation would be in left margin' < 1203629936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just get "Symbol's definition as function is void: move-beginning-of-line" < 1203629943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did: < 1203629944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(RET) < 1203629945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] < 1203629948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i can't do in those [] < 1203629951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*go < 1203629961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely looks like there's an off-by-two error for you < 1203629967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that code clearly needs cleaning up < 1203629967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe some logic bugs. < 1203629975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the Forte indentation? Does that work? < 1203629986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't know forte < 1203629988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it right-justifies the line numbers and left-justifies the statements) < 1203630002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just type in some BASIC, it looks much the same to a syntax higlighter < 1203630042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filext= < 1203630047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 LET 9=7 < 1203630048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 PRINT 6*9 < 1203630050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing < 1203630053 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1203630055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filext=.4te < 1203630073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start loop(ENTER) < 1203630080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->startloop indented one tab, current lien on one tab < 1203630094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a loop instruction < 1203630102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203630106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i copied the examplenotanexample < 1203630106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203630107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just indents the line number into a one-tab margin and the rest of the statement after it < 1203630126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100110 LET 110=110+3 < 1203630128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :109 LET 100110=108 < 1203630129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 PRINT "Looping...": LET 108=108+3 < 1203630137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you do a loop in Forte < 1203630149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the 10 rem won't highlight properly < 1203630149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1203630169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because of the embedded colon-newline in the comment < 1203630181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs does that for other langs too, though, like // this is a C comment over 2 lines \ < 1203630187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is also a C comment < 1203630201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't highlight the second line < 1203630203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1203630205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs sucks < 1203630206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203630221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of all the syntax higlighters I've tried, Kate's seems to be best < 1203630226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Emacs has better indentation < 1203630284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the forte constants is: < 1203630289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map Integer -> Integer < 1203630295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default=[1=>1,2=>2,...] < 1203630296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1203630298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203630300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the key integers never morph < 1203630309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all integers can morph < 1203630320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally it's a stupid idea to change the important ones like 1 < 1203630325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so wait, the keys '1' and '2' could morph in that default? < 1203630328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i did < 1203630330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET 1 = 2 < 1203630332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would become < 1203630337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default=[2=>2,2=>2,...]? < 1203630341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i highly doubt it < 1203630342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would become < 1203630346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default=[1=>2,2=>2,...] < 1203630349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1203630353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think about it like that < 1203630367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be easier to think of it as map String -> Integer < 1203630376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default=["1"=>1,"2"=>2,...] < 1203630381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203630383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that that is misleading < 1203630386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1203630390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every pair of parens triggers an extra conversion < 1203630391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parser will parse the numbers as Integer < 1203630404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does this work < 1203630405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: < 1203630405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET (2+2) = 5 < 1203630431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, according to the spec < 1203630438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it would do if you remembered to give the line number < 1203630449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I relaly need a map of expr->expr < 1203630455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because presumably '4' wouldn't result in '5' < 1203630458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 2+2 < 1203630462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about (2+3)-1? < 1203630468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no: < 1203630473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 LET 4=5 < 1203630477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 PRINT (2+2) < 1203630479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will print 5 < 1203630484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Okay, what about: < 1203630485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will (2+3)-1 < 1203630490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 LET (2+2)=5 < 1203630494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 PRINT ((2+3)-1) < 1203630503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the answer 5 < 1203630511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an integer becomes completely unusable once it's been redefined < 1203630511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, so EVERY operation has indirection < 1203630513 0 :Sgeo[College]!i=897d294e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f2c12e9a7f201616 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203630517 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1203630539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes quite interesting because once an integer's been redefined, you can never use that integer's original value again < 1203630546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is forte's (1/0) < 1203630548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can I do < 1203630551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET (1/0) = 4 < 1203630554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT (1/0) < 1203630570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/0 isn't treated sensibly by the interp I came up with < 1203630574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's just an error < 1203630587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although making it a constant that can be assigned to would probably be more interesting < 1203630596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should add 'nullity' too... < 1203630601 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203630608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would my example do < 1203630631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever dividing by 0 does in Perl < 1203630639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1203630640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably die with an error < 1203630720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably also worth pointing out that the reference interp tends to go into an infinite loop if there are any errors in the original program, because I don't check for them, and likewise the language will infinite loop if no explicit END statement is given < 1203630755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also worth mentioning that the line numbers are the only things that effect the order in which lines are run, and yes, they're indirected to < 1203630758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to$/too/ < 1203630806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you loop by redefining the numbers of earlier lines to have higher values so they're after the present line... < 1203630807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Program = M.Map Integer Statement < 1203630810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P unsorted programs < 1203630868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INPUT. This works like LET, except that the redefinition of the number is taken from the input, not from an expression. The expression gives the number to redefine. < 1203630868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET. This works like INPUT, except that it inputs a character and redefines the number given by the expression to its ASCII code. It inputs 256 on end-of-file. < 1203630877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so INPUT takes a decimal number? < 1203630881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203630892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's completely unusable, sort of like gets in C < 1203630911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no restriction on what numbers the user can input < 1203630923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET and atoi code are more useful in practice < 1203630931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if i 'LET 3 = 4', then get the input '3', is it redefined as '4'? < 1203630953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET 3 = 4 < 1203630958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INPUT 5 < 1203630966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will set 5 to 4 if the user inputs '3' < 1203630973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd remembered to put line numbers in < 1203630987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to use an integer once it's been redefined... < 1203631012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1203631020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so even LET's lhs has the indirection? < 1203631029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203631138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putInt :: Integer -> Integer -> Forte () < 1203631139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putInt a b = update (\m -> M.alter (\_ -> b) a m) < 1203631141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee < 1203631146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about < 1203631149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET 5 = 1 < 1203631154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET 4 = 2 < 1203631156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203631156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1203631157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1203631159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET 5 = 1 < 1203631161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET 1 = 2 < 1203631162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT 5 < 1203631168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 2 < 1203631176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so i need to iterate my finding < 1203631183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203631278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, looking at the interp working can be quite interesting < 1203631295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change all occurrences of 'next' to 'next and print' you'll be able to see what it's doing < 1203631338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: welp i have getInt/putInt written < 1203631369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gosh, the main loop will be hard < 1203631370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1203632212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going home" < 1203632488 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. For some reason, input doesn't work anymore. < 1203632499 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah Shit. For some reason, input doesn't work anymore. < 1203632508 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You certainly said something successfully < 1203632525 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not on the lazy bird! < 1203632557 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1203632567 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1203632568 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnboundLocalError: local variable 'c' referenced before assignment < 1203632602 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy bird? < 1203632686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo[College]: HMM LET'S THINJK < 1203632691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH COULD IT BE AN ESOLANG?? < 1203632694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEIRD IDEA. TOTALLY. < 1203632698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203632778 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye al;l < 1203632852 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1203632922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Challenge: < 1203632931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write the shortest C program that interprets a turing complete language. < 1203632932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything goes. < 1203632974 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC? < 1203632993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Hardly; a brainfuck interp would be shorter. < 1203633000 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orly? < 1203633016 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a bitchanger would be even shorter :o < 1203633029 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the wiki for something to try < 1203633050 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried to make an OISC interpreter, but it doesn't seem bigger than BF to implement < 1203633070 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203633074 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember GOTO++ < 1203633079 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abject oriented programming < 1203633124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw -- doesn't have to be valid ansi < 1203633128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be broken k&r if you want < 1203633130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it compiles < 1203633166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh; and it can be non-turing-complete due to e.g. integer/array limits < 1203633177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be hard otherwise! < 1203633182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if a platform had infinite arrays and ints; if the program was TC; then it's ok < 1203633186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: well, no. realloc() < 1203633393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha: < 1203633394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l(i){R i=getc()?i?getc()+l(i);} < 1203633402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: are you that evil?! < 1203633420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1203633422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/second?/: < 1203633523 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1203633531 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what that does < 1203633541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: well, its tweaked a bit now < 1203633543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current semantics: < 1203633548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads a character < 1203633552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's \0, < 1203633565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it reads one character, subtracts one from it, and adds it to (RECURSE) < 1203633566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, < 1203633571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returns the character minus one < 1203633593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: basically, it lets me read in trivially as chars (i.e. no bounded buffers) but get anything that can fit into an int < 1203633595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: < 1203633604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 02 00 02 02 < 1203633613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is (2-1)+(2-1)+(2-1) < 1203633615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it's 3 < 1203633655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is called 'onest' < 1203633657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pun on 'forth' < 1203633724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language ext=.1st < 1203633836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1203633838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/getc/getchar < 1203633861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l(i){R i=getchar()?i-1:getchar()-1+l(i);}main(a){R l(a);} < 1203633866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current interp. < 1203633871 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_____o < 1203633876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: it doesn't run anything yet. < 1203633877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1203633881 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will be beater but trying anyway < 1203633889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ./onest < 3.1st; echo $? < 1203633889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1203633892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about off-by-one errors.. < 1203634239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: ok < 1203634245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a look at my official reading routine :P < 1203634246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l(i){R(i=getchar())?i-1:getchar()-1+l(i);} < 1203634269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(R is return) < 1203634275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me expand that: < 1203634309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l(i){i = getchar(); if (i) { return (i-1); } else { i2 = getchar(); return (i2-1)+l(i); } } < 1203634311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for your main loop: findMinWithKey . snd . split currentLineNo $ currentProgram < 1203634316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: basically, the i perameter is ignored < 1203634330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: it is just so we can assign to an integer variable (params default to int, remember?) without a declaration < 1203634338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we do l(i) to pass along an int to assign to, etc < 1203634340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1203634344 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1203634346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() calls l with argc, which is good enough, since it's ignored < 1203634348 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1203634355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minViewWithKey < 1203634374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fst . < 1203634378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: and i believe main() will be recursive < 1203634390 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't have main recursive :[ < 1203634395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1203634401 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots with main(g,v){l(g,1[(char**)v]);} instead < 1203634411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty hardcore < 1203634412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203634417 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want to iterate argv[0] < 1203634419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... why are you casting? < 1203634424 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps I mean argv[1] < 1203634425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a warning! < 1203634439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1[v] should work hunky dory, i think < 1203634448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is: fmap fst (minViewWithKey . snd . split currentLineNo $ currentProgram). i think. < 1203634472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia: all my functions take an implicit integer parameter to assign to < 1203634472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1203634481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my execution function starts: e(i){i=l(i);... < 1203634482 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int g,char**v){l(g,1[v]);} < 1203634482 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(g,v){l(g,1[(char**)v]);} < 1203634487 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why < 1203634494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(g,6 --- quit: timotiis ("leaving") < 1203641473 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203641531 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203641730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice to anyone who's been using Domain 0x08: Spec changes coming soon! < 1203641777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will affect anyone using Net::makeserversocket, Net::urlget and Net::urlpost < 1203641784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for your cooperation < 1203641797 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203642078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203642408 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"php you!" < 1203642411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Going down for new kernel." < 1203642431 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203642548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re ehird < 1203643161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone like the idea of BF-CHAT? A chat protocol for servers and clients written in BF? < 1203643192 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't chat on it. < 1203643201 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what does "re" stand for? < 1203643215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re = rehi < 1203643223 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rehi? < 1203643270 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1203643285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re hello? < 1203643308 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like "welcome back". < 1203643315 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a repetition of hello. < 1203643338 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use "re" instead of "hello"? < 1203643356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"re" instead of "wb" when someone reconnects from a disconnect < 1203643362 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1203643423 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that "re" is a greek word that doesn't mean anything special but fits nicely when beggining a message like "re ehird". :-) < 1203643437 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "hey" < 1203643774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nobody likes that idea, by the way. < 1203643785 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wha? < 1203643786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pointless. and not interesting. < 1203643795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's put it this way: in which way is it interesting? < 1203643820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. It would be a chat protocol that non-geeky people really wouldn't use < 1203643828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a cool PSOX demo < 1203643835 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yeah just use IRC < 1203643839 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thougt < 1203643845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a chat protocol that NOBODY would really use!! < 1203643853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm pretty sure #esoteric has only geeks. < 1203643867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not a cool PSOX demo beacuse it just represents more of the same psox crap < 1203643873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to write an IRCd in BF? < 1203643890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!! you take our criticisms far too specifically! < 1203643895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the details, it's the ROOT IDEA < 1203643901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's POINTLESS, and it's just NOT INTERESTING < 1203643919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you're abandoning SOXP? What about a GUI domain? < 1203643948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOXP is not a main project. I may code some relatively interesting bits < 1203643955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of writing a bloody ircd < 1203643988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about writing a GUI domain for PSOX? < 1203644057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM soxp < 1203644061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, mildly interesting < 1203644079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM? < 1203644155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you mean < 1203644202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if SOXP has a compatibility layer for PSOX domains, you could write it for PSOX and it will work with both..\ < 1203644275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i want to write that? < 1203644299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished product sooner that would also work with newer technology? < 1203644300 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!" < 1203644330 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, i could do it in fbf... :-P < 1203644367 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the irc client < 1203644425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coolness < 1203644544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net::socket is going to return a success byte, btw < 1203644559 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203644571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function 8.0 < 1203644661 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i still have no idea how psox works. i am reading the documentation now < 1203644712 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's to late. and in 7 hours i must be sitting on a chair taking a test in computer architecture. (sleep included) < 1203644767 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnightttttt < 1203644779 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bai < 1203644780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night Tritonio_ < 1203645342 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203645494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203645624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re pikhq < 1203646158 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203646179 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203646525 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shi- < 1203646536 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed what's wrong with my IO < 1203646542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1203646575 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the input converts to church numerals < 1203646588 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the program makes an invalid expression. < 1203648166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88 < 1203648572 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, pikhq? < 1203648586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1203648616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments on what I just posted? < 1203648620 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-224-108.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203648634 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that if I had 3D glasses, it would be awesome. < 1203648640 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was my comment. < 1203648646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203648649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi GreaseMonkey < 1203648674 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1203648689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, comments on http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88 ? < 1203648708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET 3D SPECS GREASEMONKEY < 1203648721 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to < 1203648729 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzflag supports them < 1203648764 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: svn checkout link? < 1203648786 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and wtf is all that @blah shit? < 1203648797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn co http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/psox/trunk < 1203648804 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers < 1203648805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, Python decorators < 1203648823 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version were they introduced into? < 1203648828 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have python 2.4 < 1203648835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 2.4, not sure though.. < 1203648837 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a 2.5-beta if i'm stuck < 1203648864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.4 < 1203649545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does PSOX need SSL support/ < 1203649546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203649629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, let some Brainfuck coder implement SSL. < 1203649630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1203649760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that even possible over ordinary sockets? < 1203649820 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be. < 1203649849 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i second pikhq. < 1203649868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you think of my spec changes? < 1203649936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No thoughts ATM. < 1203649954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My weekends are much more likely to be used for PSOX. < 1203650015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm thinking that the file I/O domain should contain a mkdir&cd function.. < 1203650025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1203650046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a combined function < 1203650065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a cd function with an option to make the directory if it doesn't already exist < 1203650260 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks we should implement this... http://catseye.tc/projects/didigm/doc/didigm.html < 1203652400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes another commit < 1203652457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another with the fix for online.b < 1203652932 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203653831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what's the story with PEBBLE2? < 1203653871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing ATM. < 1203653882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that I'm struggling to get myself to do much of anything. < 1203653893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe in a month? < 1203653925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have taken month long hiatuses wrt PSOX < 1203653935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda depressing, though. . . < 1203653944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEBBLE1 had functioning code within 24 hours. < 1203653951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the greatest, but it worked. < 1203654294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had that sort of productivity < 1203654312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is more complex, PEBBLE1 or PSOX? < 1203654315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels lame < 1203654621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq? < 1203654698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1203654714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My *initial* implementation of PEBBLE was a hell of a lot simpler than PSOX. . . < 1203654721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern PEBBLE? < 1203654735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno; I'd say it's a bit more complex than PSOX. < 1203654737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1203654800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels lame for taking so long to get out a working implementationm < 1203654809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm afraid I might never overhaul PSOX.py < 1203654814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't; I spent ages on my PEBBLE1 rewrite. < 1203654826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite complex. ;) < 1203654963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what sort of things would go into PSOX 1.1 < 1203654971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceptions would be cool < 1203658457 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-139.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203658627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi immibis < 1203658736 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203658789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a change to the domain 0x08 specs < 1203658811 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88 < 1203658821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/88#file1 < 1203659021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis, thoughts? < 1203659416 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1203659457 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see...it's a diff...but what good is it to me < 1203659616 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if i were you i wouldn't change function numbers like that -- it breaks compatibility < 1203659766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's not much current content out there < 1203659775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> But I guess in general it's a bad idea < 1203659998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203660683 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203661278 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203661772 0 :cherez!n=cherez@131.151.190.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203662801 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1203662854 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1203664715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203667199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203667200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203668305 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"NickServ (GHOST'ed by gravisan" < 1203670412 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Read error: 110 (Connection chickened out)" < 1203681691 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203682384 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203683158 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203684369 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203689238 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203698941 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw02-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203699816 0 :uvanta!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203700110 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203702024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: 3+4 = 2 < 1203702076 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1203702085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove me wrong. In ternary. < 1203702133 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 and 4 do not exist in ternary < 1203702266 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203702281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, prove that in its decimal form wrong; using ternary < 1203702368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll have a mkdir fucntion with optional cd, as opposed to a cd function with optional mkdir.. < 1203702381 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 xor 11 = 01 < 1203702400 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. Wait. < 1203702409 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I do addition with ternary symbols. < 1203702420 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 + 4 = 7. < 1203702422 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar. < 1203702463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, ehird, any comment on what I just said? < 1203702517 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two thumbs up, go for it. < 1203702579 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone heard of Linux? It’s a new kind of Windows, but it’s free. I’ve read up on it, and it seems that it’s created and supported by ultra-liberals. Its creator, Richard Stallman, is even a satanist. < 1203702579 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They call themselves “hackersâ€, and their aim is to destroy every big company, everything that is conservative. I can’t tolerate this sort of persecution. The LORD himself was a conservative and he was nailed to a tree for it. It won’t be long before all of us are crucified too if Linux succeeds. < 1203702581 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203702637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I wonder how many people took that seriously? < 1203702638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203702644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why not two functions < 1203702649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOSH IT'S SO OBVIOuS (!!) < 1203702650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, where's this? < 1203702660 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fstdt.com < 1203702661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what use is there for a CD that might error? < 1203702673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more useful as a combined function < 1203702678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ask all the people who wrote sane shells. < 1203702695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know how basic filesystem operations would work; they know more about that kind of stuff than you (as a rule of thumb for any programming by anyone) < 1203702702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: ah, that's bad ... i think it's satire < 1203702717 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always hard to see where the trolls are < 1203702755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trolling != satire < 1203702976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what use is there for bf to be calling a cd command? < 1203703007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think that a BF program would want to attempt to switch to a directory, and make it if it doesn't exist < 1203703080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, are most BF interps wrapping? If not, how does one do if(cell==5) for example without wrapping? < 1203703140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wrapping as in "crashes if you go below zero?" < 1203703153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not wrapping as in doesn't wrap < 1203703166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the latter case, no different from a wrapping solution < 1203703211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo knows nearly nothing about what real-world program do, or what most brainfuck interpreters do, or how to write tons of algorithms in it, yet he advertises PSOX as the way to write 'real programs' in brainfuck. < 1203703212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1203703215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how could it be no different? < 1203703241 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I don't either! < 1203703253 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That never stopped me from coding shit < 1203703280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it just isn't any different, too trivial to explain < 1203703289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----- < 1203703324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't distinguish between 5 and 4 in nonwrapping, afaict < 1203703331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: It stopped you from coding something which is intended to be used to write large Brainfuck programs, though, < 1203703351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: lolwut? < 1203703354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: always check for larger numbers before smaller < 1203703355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1203703367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is incredibly sad of how ignorant Sgeo is of brainfuck algorithms < 1203703400 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't stop me. What stopped me is the fact that I don't want to :o < 1203703400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: WHAT < 1203703444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For GUI BF applications, which would be better: A lot of ifs in a loop, or the program checking one element, then another, etc? < 1203703452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking the first option < 1203703455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions? < 1203703482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i suggest you work out how to code in brainfuck first. < 1203703488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my opinion is you should explain why it does not distinguish between 4 and 5 < 1203703542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, um, wouldn't nonwrapping noncrash mean that ----- when it was at 4 make it zero, or am I misunderstanding "nonwrapping noncrash"? < 1203703558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1203703568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1203703588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making - a nop if the current cell is zero would essentially be the same as crashing < 1203703591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither makes any sense < 1203703609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and besides, if you check higher numbers before smaller, you have no problem < 1203703612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So by nonwrapping you meant it goes negative? < 1203703624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1203703626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203703648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when you . a negative? < 1203703651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: saturating on decrement at 0 is reasonably sensible behaviour < 1203703657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes less-than really easy to write < 1203703668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1203703676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't approve of it < 1203703682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares his chainsaw < 1203703700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: everything is implementation defined < 1203703702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1203703725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many implementations crash on negative, and on those, how would you do if(cell==5)? < 1203703725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, there's no active esolang standards comitte < 1203703741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as we come up with a good acronym, let's start one! < 1203703744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1203703748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to be on it < 1203703755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: those are not brainfuck. < 1203703758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but of course < 1203703777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i used to use this thing called Blue Fern, killed my brainfuck interp in brainfuck with its "crash on decrement zero" < 1203703779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would even go to say that just 'brainfuck' is 30,000+ cell, 8-bit, wrapping brainfuck < 1203703780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric Standards Organisation would be ESO, which is nicely self-referential < 1203703797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's add TERIC to that < 1203703822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's easy enough to do IFs? < 1203703837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I go with the first option I mentioned, or the second? < 1203703838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric Standards Organization: Tier-based Evil Recursive Induction (Crap) < 1203703839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: shure < 1203703840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1203703851 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's work on the Brainfuck Standard Eso 0001 < 1203703858 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me find a tie first. < 1203703859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hay, Slereah < 1203703860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow down < 1203703860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203703867 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a tie, so I'll use a bandana. < 1203703867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EOF will be the major problem < 1203703876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what we decide on someone will be disappointed < 1203703878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, if we use ESOTERIC we can't have our own channel < 1203703888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1203703890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ESO < 1203704050 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337 it < 1203704053 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#350 < 1203704108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should make something like projecteuler.net for esolangs < 1203704512 0 :otesanek!n=otesanek@217.195.209.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203705235 0 :otesanek!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203705505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be sure, BF programs can print 0xFF? < 1203705544 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it a blank character anyway? < 1203705556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they can, generally speaking < 1203705777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to make some optimizations to the BF interp < 1203705781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not BF interp < 1203705783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX interp < 1203705797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should make importing domains MUCH faster < 1203705810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the expense of a tiny bit of ugliness < 1203706017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just replacing FNUM(1) with FNUM1 < 1203707512 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203707538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: younger programmers might get the wrong idea, watching you take it seriously. < 1203707541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi wildhalcyon < 1203707547 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Sgeo < 1203707573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's true.. < 1203707574 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203707577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make brainfuck sound useful < 1203707585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even interesting beyond the initial 'hey, that's awesome' < 1203707586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :slereah_ < 1203707591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last interesting program was mandelbrot.b or life.b < 1203707600 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck isn't about usefulness. < 1203707603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lostkng.b was pretty cool, but not that much (it's a good stress test) < 1203707605 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about sweat and blood! < 1203707629 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is not useful. Interesting or fun, perhaps, but not useful. < 1203707637 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about having a short TC language to make interpreters out of. < 1203707639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: sgeo is trying to make it useful < 1203707654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ooh, aah, you can write a web page or an irc bot in BRAINFUCK! ooh, aah < 1203707660 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like gluing auto parts on a skateboard" < 1203707668 0 :BrainF!n=SgBrainf@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203707668 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX . < 1203707668 0 :BrainF!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203707675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: Exactly! daniel has it right. < 1203707687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wow, great way to prove my point < 1203707698 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT, THE BRAINFUCK, IT TALKS! < 1203707709 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because it CAN do something doesn't mean it should... < 1203707734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thinking about extending that? < 1203707786 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1203707796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm? < 1203707838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want me to define 'extend'? < 1203707859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant, make it actually do something < 1203707877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not skilled enough in BF for that < 1203707911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't learn if you don't try < 1203707919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i'll be doing some going now -> < 1203707931 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bai < 1203707984 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later < 1203708010 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone here worked with the befunge-98 fingerprints? < 1203708036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've run funge-98 code that uses them, but didn't write the source code < 1203708043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or take more than a passing glance to see what it was doing < 1203708073 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, alright < 1203708158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon, PSOX has a somewhat similar idea < 1203708205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, actually, not really, something more analygous to handprints is there, but not fingerprints I think < 1203708215 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but its not embedded into the language. Its only available for I/O. < 1203708353 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I get it < 1203708368 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the handprint thing is nice for befunge < 1203708481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ais523: re the discussion in ESO: One thing that would make it incompatible with everything currently existing would be that you do ,, per char, the first one is 0x00 if there is an EOF, 0x01 otherwise, the next one is the char, or 0x00 if there was EOF < 1203708552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's psox semantics. < 1203708553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo :P < 1203708577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unambiguous < 1203708595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, you probably couldn't call it BF then.. < 1203708697 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't ESO the esoteric operating system? < 1203708742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be both < 1203708746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more ambiguity the better < 1203708778 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESO is ESO compatible. < 1203708783 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As decided by ESO. < 1203708786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: YES! < 1203708787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203709726 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is ESO? < 1203709758 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric Standards Organisation. < 1203710005 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1203710008 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1203710025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: 'ouch'? < 1203710041 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds so.. official < 1203710045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, at least, needs standardisation so we can finally get rid of that EOF problem < 1203710047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What GUI thingy should I use for a PSOX GUI domain? < 1203710050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: That is totally the point! < 1203710051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203710062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IMO we need a base INTERCAL standard to deal with the proliferation of various features since INTERCAL-72 < 1203710063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no EOF problem for BF programs using PSOX < 1203710064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are even going to have a domain, with email addresses using full names. < 1203710072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and write it using XML, with xml2rfc < 1203710077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like C, which had a de facto standard for a while and was finally cleaned up < 1203710151 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard barely saved C. < 1203710181 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C was in serious danger of losing its personality and devolving into a horrible mish-mash of parts and pieces. < 1203710188 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. which is what happened in the end anyways < 1203710229 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't fear much for Brainfuck becoming a mish mash. < 1203710244 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even PSOX will not soil its purity! < 1203710247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid Windows... I insert a USB stick, it spends ages doing something or other before it recognises it, then pops up a balloon saying how clever it's being installing drivers, then /while it's doing that/ I save my file to the USB stick, and then after that it tells me I need to restart my computer to be able to use the USB stick < 1203710276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: #ESO -- come and make sure we don't do something evil? :P < 1203710330 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will only come to help you do something evil < 1203710345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, good point < 1203710369 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, I'm afraid windows is a rather... dimwitted individual < 1203710399 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was smart, it would either recognize that it doesn't need to install anything, or it wouldn't let you touch it until it finished installing < 1203710409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: I'm aware, the reason I'd plugged in the USB stick was to transfer files to my Linux laptop < 1203710506 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I just like poking fun of windows < 1203710519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1203710532 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think chatzilla hates me < 1203710695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had Forte's idea for years before I even heard of esolangs < 1203710702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wondered what would happen if you could assign numbers to other ones < 1203710721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Fortran interps could do that, but didn't take it to its logical conclusion < 1203710736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it might be one of those things that everyone thinks of < 1203710737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, BANCStar also allows that, for twisted reasons of its own < 1203710743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the 'what if everyone else sees colours different from anyone else?' < 1203710745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't even an esolang, technically speaking < 1203710749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not met one person who didn't use to think that < 1203711029 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it < 1203711141 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1203711219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Bahrn it. < 1203711236 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, hybrid curse words are the best\ < 1203711324 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a gosh darned cunt! < 1203711408 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the way to tell 'em < 1203711860 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, even though I don't have anything hard to show for it, I've come up with a name for my project < 1203712087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: what is it? < 1203712152 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Names are important. < 1203712157 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're hard to come up with. < 1203712164 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look at NTCM! < 1203712169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have names for most of my esolangs < 1203712171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even I don't call it by that name. < 1203712190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have a strange aversion to using them in public before the lang is 'officially' released < 1203712202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just talk about 'my uncomputable Prolog-like language' or whatever < 1203712212 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, had to step out :-) < 1203712219 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My project name is NeuroNIX < 1203712229 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION launches a Prolog program in a Hogart space time < 1203712232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name sounds like it's a neural-network operating system < 1203712240 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the idea < 1203712248 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not a neural network in the strict sense < 1203712255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to see that < 1203712258 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its just a grid of fungeoid processors < 1203712275 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its networked LIKE neurons... sort.. of... < 1203712287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1203712316 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really just liked the name < 1203712326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1203712328 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I too would like to see a neural network operating system < 1203712878 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Text < 1203712880 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1203712970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: that's not 2d < 1203713004 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. It's just the last article < 1203713972 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would debate whether the authorship of that language was correct < 1203714004 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahah, it works! < 1203714019 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, my 2,3 machine display random characters instead of three! < 1203714069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favourite quines (a UNIX executable): < 1203714072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/cat < 1203714074 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, I gotta head out. Good luck in your endeavours < 1203714076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in Perl too. < 1203714101 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1203714402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how ls listings should be expressed in PSOX :/ < 1203715400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1203715417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would Taxi work with PSOX? Reading in involves reading a line.. < 1203715598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could provide a loopback function.. < 1203716399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: If any of you have a gripe with the name 'eso-std.org' or a suggestion for a better one, PLEASE INFORM ME < 1203716439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, CLARIFICATION: the domain name eso-std.org, not the org name (Esoteric Standards Organization) < 1203716622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oklopol: Slereah: Sgeo: : LAST RFC ON THE DOMAIN NAME... < 1203716631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso-disease.org? < 1203716636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> sorry < 1203716725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you have any objections or suggestions for a better name than eso-std.org? < 1203716741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than maybe eso-standard.org not really < 1203716748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is ok with eso-std.org < 1203716756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :std seems better, like open-std.org < 1203716762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can't remember whether that has a hyphen or not) < 1203716775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso-standard.org looks kinda ugly < 1203716794 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees with ehird  < 1203716796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523 < 1203717099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should we use a more general name for eso-std.org? < 1203717104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it will house non-standard-related things too < 1203717130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting point < 1203717144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd kind of prefer to have it like the w3c, which also hosts validators, etc. < 1203717151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is a standards org really < 1203717165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it also has repos < 1203717166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, reference interps are part of the standardisation process < 1203717168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implementation's sites < 1203717169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pastebins < 1203717170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1203717177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but e.g. the underload compiler will be there < 1203717179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that won't be official < 1203717201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really official, more an informative annex < 1203717206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which aids understanding of the standard < 1203717213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "How this language can be compiled" < 1203717227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but there will be stuff totally unrelated to standards there too < 1203717537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will spend more on hospitals! < 1203717537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will jail anyone not in jail already! < 1203717537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will spend billions limiting immigration! < 1203717537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will deport anyone we can deport! < 1203717537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will abolish schools! < 1203717575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20051218132142/http://chimpen.com/tory/ < 1203717624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rules < 1203717884 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just brainfuck though < 1203717929 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, what isn't in esolangs. < 1203717970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is upset that so many thematic languages are based on BF, because many of them look quite interesting < 1203717986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Tory BF? < 1203717999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: read the spec < 1203717999 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://web.archive.org/web/20060620231104/chimpen.com/tory/tory-spec.html < 1203717999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all its commands are the same, if you read the spec < 1203718003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with different names < 1203718018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's BF but doesn't acutally say so? < 1203718027 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read, write, forward, backward, increment, decrement, if and end if < 1203718037 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rest is NOP < 1203718042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while and end while, I think < 1203718051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exactly , . > < + - [ ] < 1203718167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what non-BF equivelents can be compiled to BF < 1203718212 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's TC. < 1203718213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything computable with one input stream and one output stream that can arbitrarily affect and be arbitrarily affected by the program < 1203718227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the nature of TCness < 1203718244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, add in the requirement for I/O and you get what is often called "Brainfuck-complete" by esolangers) < 1203718249 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tory does have increment-by-n though, so I guess it's rather a BF dialect < 1203718250 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203718255 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How easy/difficult would it be to do so? < 1203718259 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime it's hard to add IO! < 1203718264 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends. < 1203718277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, only to the extend BF-RLE is a dialect < 1203718281 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly about how close the concepts are. < 1203718323 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least that's how I feel it. < 1203718467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closing bits, at eso-std.org ... (last chance) < 1203718472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bids < 1203718478 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sold! < 1203718507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ask on Sine? < 1203718533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Meh. Ok. < 1203718698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Sgeo: no objections? < 1203718708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not anymore than last time. < 1203718708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you didn't ask on Sine.. < 1203718711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no objections < 1203718720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: eh, little point to ask on sine < 1203718724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you? < 1203718731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: random person -- you? < 1203718834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK -- registering it. < 1203718860 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, now I have a million and one objection! < 1203718870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late. Doing it now. :P < 1203718887 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooooooooo < 1203718891 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no matter. < 1203718898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: any real objections? < 1203718904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: You misspellt Noooooooooooo < 1203718908 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1203718911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1203718917 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT WANT < 1203719349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois.sc/eso-std.org < 1203719360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: shut up < 1203719362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm registering it < 1203719370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't hit a whois, some people will try to register a website first if you do < 1203719376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1203719382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damnit. < 1203719389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clap, clap, clap < 1203719413 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Register faster ehird! < 1203719416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, ehird had already put the request in, so is likely to get it first unless the registrar is really slow about it < 1203719416 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're after you! < 1203719417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But didn't you register it? < 1203719423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to < 1203719427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not every whois site has domain parkers watching < 1203719430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the registrar's ordering system is loading slowly < 1203719432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some of them < 1203719436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no the request might not be in yet. < 1203719460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does whois.sc ? < 1203719467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois.domaintools.com ? < 1203719469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1203719620 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: random person -- me? < 1203719653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"while this is all very exciting, it doesn't prevent me needing to go home. I'll see what happened tomorrow or maybe the day a < 1203720062 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_D6Gregor1RFeZi < 1203720068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_D6Gregor1RFeZi, what? < 1203721053 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203721911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Tritonio_ < 1203721921 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1203721943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1203721948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso-std.org is myerierineirnernierniernierne!!! < 1203722040 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1203722052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be the best GUI toolkit for PSOX? < 1203722107 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-242.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203722123 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi sebbu < 1203722460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE: < 1203722467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you try eso-std.org to see if it starts loading sometime? < 1203722468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1203722561 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not seem to. < 1203722612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try pinging < 1203722658 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too ashamed to reveal that I don't know how to do it. < 1203722742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ping eso-std.org' < 1203722831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1203722905 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203724259 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1203724379 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203724415 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203724416 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1203724874 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eso-std loads :D < 1203725020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1203725402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: wot it display??! < 1203725430 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of folders, but I assume that's normal. < 1203725500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1203725778 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Esoteric Sexually Transmitted Diseases. Intersting. < 1203725781 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Interesting < 1203725799 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happened to me once. < 1203725809 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had sex with Alan Turing. < 1203725819 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, bam. I had stacks. < 1203725826 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to pop 'em. < 1203725880 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be careful with that metaphor. < 1203725886 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stretch it any farther and it just might tear. < 1203725932 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will take more than shame to make me drop it! < 1203726033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_D6Gregor1RFeZi: Esoteric standards, actually. < 1203726034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nice try. < 1203726068 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will be the appropriate sentence for breaking the standards? < 1203726094 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel it should involve Malbolge somehow. < 1203727147 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1203727156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yelling at < 1203727160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and supplying a better interp < 1203727166 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got this strange attraction to try scheme instead of Haskell. < 1203727171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks pretty. < 1203727175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't < 1203727181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme doesn't have monads, for one. < 1203727187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For another, it's not *purely* functional. < 1203727189 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better. < 1203727193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For another, it's not actually as pretty. < 1203727198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Not if you want to make Lazy Bird work. < 1203727204 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sentence for breaking standards should be an ice cream cake and a pat on the back. < 1203727211 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm totally cool with side effects, dude. < 1203727211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, Scheme isn't very nice for writing real apps. < 1203727212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is. < 1203727227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: You're not -- monads are the only way to solve IO in a purely lazy language like Lazy Bird. < 1203727254 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Scheme use though? < 1203727265 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVIL MAGIC < 1203727267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Scheme isn't lazy. < 1203727273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is eagerly-evaluated. < 1203727275 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1203727278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not a functional language. < 1203727284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has many functional features, but inside it's still imperative. < 1203727288 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203727290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can mutate just about everything. < 1203727298 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was, with Lazy K written in it. < 1203727303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1203727308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lazy evaluation is coded by hand; there. < 1203727462 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is nice for writing real apps? < 1203727479 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my (very limited) experience, monads turn everything into an ugly mess. < 1203727490 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU LIED TO ME EHIRD! < 1203727506 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU TOLD ME IT WAS ALL BIKERIDES AND SUNSET! < 1203727581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: You lie! < 1203727591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: lament is just stupid; no bother! < 1203727591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203727627 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a big, ugly looking stack of monad transformers and have to constantly lift stuff < 1203727637 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you need to add a new monad to the stack, oh, you're so screwed. < 1203727645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: rubbish < 1203727650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never encountered that < 1203727655 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part of that is not true? < 1203727655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just write crappy haskell! :P < 1203727661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part where you complained < 1203727713 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big, ugly looking stack - unavoidable < 1203727713 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constantly lifting stuff - unavoidable < 1203727732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwed when you need to add a new monad - unavoidable. Unless you shove all monads into the stack in the beginning, just to be safe! < 1203727751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: very avoidable < 1203727755 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part? < 1203727758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your code is just ugly. :| < 1203727766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: all of it. it's just a matter of design. < 1203727766 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part is avoidable? < 1203727769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true < 1203727789 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the picture of the monad stack for lambdabot? < 1203727799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: lambdabot code isn't ugly. < 1203727909 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype LB a = LB { runLB :: ReaderT (IRCRState,IORef IRCRWState) IO a } deriving (Monad,Functor,MonadIO) < 1203727925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's not so bad. < 1203727968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that may look ugly, but the ACTUAL CODE that makes up lambdabot is not < 1203727975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no huge-stacks-of-lift < 1203727988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I count one transformer there. < 1203727997 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there were definitely more :) < 1203728046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ergo, lambdabot code used to be bad < 1203728048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was why it looked that way < 1203728055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, once rewritten properly, it is fine < 1203728068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i mean there're more transformers there somewhere < 1203728088 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the part about me writing crappy haskell is definitely true. < 1203728099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard, since there's no guides on writing good haskell! < 1203728159 0 :pjoter!n=foo@unaffiliated/pjoter JOIN :#esoteric < 1203728160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's called #haskell! < 1203728166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& a functional mind, represented as a monad < 1203728172 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm hungry < 1203728185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Mind = ReaderT (RState,IORef RWState) IO < 1203728187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do it < 1203728209 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey thats not about programming machines is it!?? < 1203728232 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm into the quest for ultimate wisdom darn it! < 1203728249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: uhh < 1203728249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1203728257 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon... < 1203728260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1203728262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric. < 1203728272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: your (presumably pseudoscientific) nonsense is that way ----> < 1203728293 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmon make this a spiritual channel NOW! < 1203728294 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pls < 1203728297 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From here, that arrows points to Sgeo. Though when I press enter, it will point... < 1203728307 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmh < 1203728313 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets talk about machines < 1203728317 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts on his bandana < 1203728319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: no, personally i think spiritual crap is just that < 1203728332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others here may disagree though there seems to be a general scientific, agnostic/atheist bend around here < 1203728344 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would welcome it < 1203728349 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1203728362 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203728366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: science works pretty well for me, you could try it. < 1203728374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but no, it's far too much work trying to actually understand things, I assume) < 1203728381 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you so sure arrogant son of a ape? < 1203728402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you seem to accept evolution. It's a start! < 1203728402 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no offense though) < 1203728415 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring to your dad < 1203728421 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol j/k i like machines too ;) < 1203728422 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, ehird is probably quite mild. < 1203728424 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey cmon < 1203728432 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want some spiritual channel, where will i find it? < 1203728444 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't we spiritual and shit? < 1203728450 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with the world is we know nothing isnt it? < 1203728460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: freenode is not the place. < 1203728461 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking about the programming language of the universe yesterday! < 1203728465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode is mainly about -- as you put it -- 'machines' < 1203728474 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also math. < 1203728476 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the damn feeling of wanting to understand and realizing you understand just nothing? < 1203728477 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SCIENCE < 1203728499 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is definately not much about spirits. < 1203728502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: Yes! This is why I critically examine and verify everything I see. It's better than just blindly believing something because it 'feels' true -- that's against what you just said! < 1203728511 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that < 1203728513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Shut up, I'm busy advocating SCIENCE! :< < 1203728515 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hold on < 1203728528 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't I just ask a spirit to do my I/O? I don't understand monads :((( < 1203728535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: hehe < 1203728544 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna achieve some higher spirit, some insight which science obviously isnt able to grant me < 1203728554 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that feeling, dont hide! < 1203728568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: 'obviously'? < 1203728568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop assuming things.. < 1203728568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, why does a 'higher spirit' have to exist? That's another assumption. < 1203728570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's something wrong with your current state; fix it. < 1203728592 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the frame you put on it < 1203728606 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all know that < 1203728611 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its necessary somehow, ok < 1203728625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.. This is what I honestly believe to be true, because it is the most logical explanation and I truly believe the scientific method is how the world can be explained. < 1203728625 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it aint all, we know that too at the bottom of our hearts < 1203728628 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you agree? < 1203728635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I wouldn't. < 1203728658 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont say the scientific method is wrong at all < 1203728661 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just not enough < 1203728671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1203728675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't it enough? < 1203728693 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203728702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Seriously though. < 1203728706 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few years ago, I would have so jumped in. < 1203728711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard one reason why it isn't enough. < 1203728718 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try < 1203728719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from: 'well, we all feel it' < 1203728795 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are moments we take another look to the world, fractions of seconds only.. thats my experience, i cant grasp it, but i know i should concentrate my whole efforts to do so < 1203728820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: I think that's just general human paranoia. :P < 1203728831 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may condemn the "well i feel it" argument but on what else we base ALL our thinking in the last consequences? < 1203728839 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ethics < 1203728839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, fine. But whatever you do, just don't join scientology.) < 1203728840 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral < 1203728857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: Laws of logic which have withstood the critical test for eons. < 1203728874 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for eons?? < 1203728889 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard some different stories, though i dont wanna attack logic at all right now < 1203728890 0 :bd_!n=foo@satoko.is.fushizen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203728899 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203728900 0 :bd_!n=foo@satoko.is.fushizen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203728916 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also might not want to do it here. < 1203728918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bd_: Some context -- pjoter thought this was a channel about real esoterica, 'science vs non-science' abounds < 1203728921 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic is lies :( < 1203728923 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a lot of struggle to actually end up here, and we're by far not out of flaws < 1203728928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1203728930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic is very much lies < 1203728938 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh topics are for wimps aint they? < 1203728953 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) cmon you're the right guys , i feel that too! < 1203728970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: anyway, my opinion is that science gives real understanding. Other things (such as, well, esoterica) give comfort. < 1203728975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know which one I would prefer. < 1203728984 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets end it now < 1203728995 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me something about the language < 1203729009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language < 1203729015 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't have monads, I hope! < 1203729015 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esoteric language < 1203729024 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Languages, pjoter. < 1203729025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list < 1203729026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick one. < 1203729038 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heared that word monads four times now i guess < 1203729047 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The big ones are Brainfuck, Befunge and Intercal. < 1203729047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: monads monads monads monads monads gonads monads monads monads monads < 1203729052 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it < 1203729056 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1203729068 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck alike < 1203729078 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in concept at least. < 1203729080 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, incidentally I was just thinking about making an esolang with *only* monads (possibly with a type system... but I'm trying to figure out how to avoid *functions*) < 1203729098 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you tell me about sobriety and science? < 1203729114 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j/k < 1203729120 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, ain't nothing as sobering as Brainfuck. < 1203729125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: I think I found your answer! http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ < 1203729138 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haskell with the sk calculus? < 1203729146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bd_: that includes functions < 1203729148 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i'll consider it < 1203729153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: uhh, it's a joke < 1203729154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1203729158 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lool < 1203729161 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's warning me < 1203729163 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that < 1203729168 0 :bd_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I mean removing lambda in the same way as unlambda < 1203729177 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, SK would count as functions in this context IMO < 1203729188 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus ever lacked of deeper esoteric concepts < 1203729194 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all know that < 1203729207 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but arguably, this'd have to become a combinatory logic with monad-based combinators < 1203729213 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats just not how we perceive the world < 1203729226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: i guess you percieve the world as a turing machine then < 1203729239 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a two banded yes < 1203729242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why you're on this 'quest'... you can't see the beauty in the world as it is < 1203729246 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. Pjoter seems more of a recursive functions kind of guy. < 1203729254 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my world is referentially transparent, it's just in a State monad < 1203729262 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need to understand recursion to understand recursion < 1203729266 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not now < 1203729294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: my world is more finely-grained transparent than that < 1203729305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Universe monad I have is very elegant < 1203729305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1203729307 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what you think! < 1203729353 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no really i was lookin for some real esoteric channel and what i encounter? fellow machine servants.. isn't that ironic? < 1203729367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine servants? < 1203729367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe. < 1203729371 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wetting my pants thinking of it. < 1203729379 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(turing) machine servants? < 1203729381 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, we're not all machine servants! < 1203729388 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else < 1203729388 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of us are more of a function servants < 1203729394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your brain is good at generalizing thiings quickly to support the path you already chose for yourself, pjoter. All of ours are. Maybe you should think about that.. < 1203729422 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that actually all phenomena are directly or indirectly related to the number five, and this relationship can always be demonstrated given enough ingenuity on the part of the demonstrator? < 1203729432 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You've reached this channel because the channel you tried to enter has been configured with join throttling (+J). There may be a monad attack in progress there, or simply unusually heavy interest. Please leave this channel and try again. Your channel may also be "identified-only" (+r); join #please_register for more information. If you need help, message a freenode staffer or email staff@freenode.net .... Thanks! < 1203729436 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1203729442 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1203729442 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read Illuminatus too! < 1203729456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: the ingenuity being the key thing, of course. :-) < 1203729458 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll put some noodles with cheese into myself now and you just hold on ok? < 1203729462 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe k < 1203729464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also derive 45345345 from anything! < 1203729465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EWIGE BLUMENKRAFT! < 1203729474 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i'll find some real esoteric channels someday.. < 1203729475 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% < 1203729478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what did you do to the topic? < 1203729478 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got monads to keep me company, don't worry. < 1203729479 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wie jetz blumenkraft? < 1203729505 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ich ess mal paar kaesspaetzle - bbl < 1203729521 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: made it more buzzwordy < 1203729524 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry pjoter, you're not the first to make the mistake. < 1203729527 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warum dieser "blumenkraft"? < 1203729532 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the second that I know of! < 1203729541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but that was the direct #overflow topic < 1203729541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203729565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: did i advocate SCIENCE then too? < 1203729576 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I remember. < 1203729601 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't call us machine servants, maybe that's why. < 1203729610 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I have to admit, I really dig the expression. < 1203729864 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FOR BREAKING THE ESO, THE MACHINE WILL MAKE YOU PAY" < 1203729886 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, bam, the guilty servant is sent to the Malebolge < 1203729904 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where his code will change at each instruction. < 1203729913 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cruel but fair is the machine. < 1203730126 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol the second < 1203730176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi bd_ < 1203730179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk going to eat < 1203730218 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus i included me into that flippant classification < 1203730218 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell isn't easy to get used to. < 1203730225 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not at all. < 1203730230 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably write some little programs in it. < 1203730317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my biggest issue with it was that I wanted to do OO all the time. < 1203730325 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO? < 1203730346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO. More like 'EW!' < 1203730388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: don't diss OO! < 1203730408 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO is just a flamboyant expression for nothing < 1203730421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why not < 1203730426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pjoter: so is esoterica < 1203730432 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1203730467 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ok i'm out, nice to meet ya all and good luck with further esoteric pilgrims or the like < 1203730492 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bai. < 1203730495 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i'll be back someday if i'm versed enough for haskell < 1203730498 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bai < 1203730502 0 :pjoter!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203730521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should submit a patch to gnu coreutils, replacing true.c with: < 1203730523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) < 1203730523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1203730523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1203730523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1203730570 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is return 0 even necessary? < 1203730586 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){} < 1203730586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Yes. < 1203730591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main must return an 'int'. < 1203730594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSI C specifies this. < 1203730603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and main() is invalid. You need (void) < 1203730655 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, do you use emacs? < 1203730671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes; why? < 1203730679 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'm not talking to you anymore! < 1203730679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I use Emacs and TextMate about equally < 1203730688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(suprisingly, TextMate's XML support is superior to all of Emacs') < 1203730694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why not < 1203730695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1203730728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is evil. < 1203730734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1203730740 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Kate okay? < 1203730743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is kinda, but it's better at editing Haskell and Lisp than everything else. < 1203730747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Not for Haskell! or lisp. < 1203730762 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. Haskell makes mah head hurt < 1203730768 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203730770 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: right, that's why haskell and lisp suck. < 1203730779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: bullshit < 1203730785 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i have a point < 1203730787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ok then, what do you suggest instead. < 1203730801 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-224-108.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203730847 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A language is just a small element of the overall development environment which you use to make stuff. A language should be well-integrated into this environment. < 1203730859 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is certainly true that lisp is well-integrated into emacs < 1203730897 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't like emacs, so i wouldn't use lisp. < 1203730917 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is not well-integrated into anything, at least as of yet. < 1203730931 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1203730944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yi < 1203730981 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yi is just an editor < 1203730986 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know < 1203730989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1203730991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an environment < 1203730995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can it do? < 1203730996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens to look a lot like an editor < 1203731001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: environmenty stuff. < 1203731007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can act like vi or emacs too < 1203731010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it has its editor disguise on < 1203731102 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a good module/function browser? Does it provide good autocompletion? Tooltips which show the types of functions as you type them in? Does it have a good debugger? A refactoring tool? How well is it integrated with QuickCheck? < 1203731116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: if it doesn't have any of those things, adding them will be trivial < 1203731122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell, go forth and ask. < 1203731163 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not to mention that the time i tried yi, it wouldn't even install) < 1203731192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm pretty sure that it doesn't, and i seriously doubt any of them are trivial < 1203731204 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect they're painfully complex < 1203731209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any editor, not just yi < 1203731308 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that emacs doesn't provide those things for haskell, either. < 1203731335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203731358 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mission accomplished! < 1203731407 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE DRIVEN OUT THE HASKELL FORCES SIR < 1203731411 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONGRATULATION. < 1203731419 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Machine God will reward you. < 1203731430 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Machines do not take kindly to functions >:| < 1203731459 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everyone seemingly want to masturbate to Haskell? < 1203731489 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. But it's apparently awesome and all for something I need to do. < 1203731511 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although my guess is, I'll do the lazy thing and just use some priority operator < 1203731549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Haskell suprisingly has better IO than Python < 1203731569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I understand Python much better than Haskell < 1203731584 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: it's amazingly beautiful. < 1203731587 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python is very clean < 1203731594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, first program I wrote in Python was the beggining of the Love Machine 9000! < 1203731594 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once made my own OOP language < 1203731598 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: yes, python is < 1203731610 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not nearly as beautiful as haskell < 1203731617 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure I can rewrite Lazy Bird as my first Haskell program < 1203731690 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my lang, you could do something like: a = #1; b = #0; i = #10; while({i>0;},{a = a.add(b); print(a); t = b; b = a; a = t; i = i.sub(1);}); < 1203731695 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1203731715 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = #1; b = #0; i = #10; while({i.gt(#0);},{a = a.add(b); print(a); t = b; b = a; a = t; i = i.sub(#1);}); < 1203731775 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks back on the first Love Machine 9000 < 1203731784 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually asked all states :o < 1203732062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LM9k? What's that? < 1203732083 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/NTCM < 1203732093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never actually call it NTCM. < 1203732143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it at NTCM then? < 1203732158 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is moar srs name < 1203732172 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than Love Machine 9000, that is. < 1203732187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least redirect [[Love Machine 9000]] and [[LoveMachine 9000]] and [[LoveMachine9000]] < 1203732213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe [[LoveMachine]] and [[Love Machine]] < 1203732219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And versions with M as lowercase < 1203732220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1203732235 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j/k about the case, because searching for one will return the other < 1203732258 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, the only people who hear of LM9k are the people here < 1203732263 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they already know :o < 1203732294 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with expanding your fanbase? < 1203732296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1203732307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what my fanbase for PSOX is < 1203732335 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, i got some email about some guy's 5-instruction language when he read about bloody HighFive < 1203732358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they can email me about it under the name NTCM < 1203732370 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although so far, no fanmail! < 1203732900 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First version was that one : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/turing.py < 1203734374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I can never remember the URL for logs < 1203734397 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_Portal#IRC < 1203734452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1203734540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to search it < 1203734573 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use google! < 1203734578 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE THE GOOGLE < 1203734591 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :site:[adress of the site] [terms of the search] < 1203734595 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the syntax < 1203734599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=PESOX+site%3Aircbrowse.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a < 1203734614 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, I felt inspired, so I whipped up a simple, extensible assembler: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203733864.html < 1203734618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with PSOX < 1203734649 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can currently turn something like this http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203733935.html into this: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1203734033.html < 1203736197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll abstract different GUI toolkits < 1203736205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be usable by PSOX < 1203736220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the client can choose which toolkit to use, although there will be no difference in the API < 1203736260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the best way of doing things. < 1203736275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes portability trivial. ;) < 1203736357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION registers pri:GUI < 1203736417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does this sound: < 1203736423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function to pull in one GUI event < 1203736432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first byte is the Element ID < 1203736447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second byte is the event type, dependent on the type of the element < 1203736462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then after that is any associated data, then a 0x00 < 1203736475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, if I click a button with EID 0x01 < 1203736487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it will return 0x01 0x01 0x00 < 1203736505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once the button is released, it will return 0x01 0x02 0x00 < 1203736513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for buttons, 0x01 is click, 0x02 is release) < 1203736631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Events do need to be registered for each EID < 1203736655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, thoughts? < 1203736670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, thoughts on an mkdir function with a cd option, and no separate cd function? < 1203736684 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203736698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thoughts ATM. < 1203736707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm *really* tired. . . < 1203736713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, about to collapse. . . < 1203736755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotosleep! < 1203736845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only 8:20. < 1203736852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a nap! < 1203736865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've barely been *home* for an hour. Ugh. < 1203736887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sick? Feel better soon if so < 1203736908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just low sleep combined with the world's longest day. :( < 1203736940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was this a long day for you? < 1203736954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1203736959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left home at 6. I got home at 18:30. < 1203736975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Way the fuck too long. < 1203737004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was going on < 1203737005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203737060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :School + having to wait 4 fucking hours for a ride. :( < 1203737105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you have to wait 4 hours? < 1203737186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's how long it took for my ride to show up? < 1203737218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did it take that long? < 1203737231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your ride could have called you and you could have taken a bus? < 1203737246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US. We don't *have* decent public transportation. < 1203737260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 hours is more decent than 4 hours < 1203737263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically: the bus towards where I live runs 3 times a day. < 1203737273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Takes me 1.5hrs to get to college) < 1203737286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't feel like talking about the trip back < 1203737287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203740972 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203742487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hioerjan < 1203742688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. The rare Hioerjan subspecies of oerjan. < 1203742739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We Are In A Hi'er State < 1203742755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hisgeo < 1203743652 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"php you!" < 1203747356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1203753599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203753600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203756618 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203756626 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203757609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bus to where i live in goes about a hundred times a day... but that's just the one bus, there's 4 buses for it < 1203758915 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bad attempt, Liempt." < 1203759005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1203774126 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203774131 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203774821 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203780424 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203783175 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203783375 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203783471 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1203783659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : why does everyone seemingly want to masturbate to Haskell? < 1203783668 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eewww < 1203783670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does GreaseMonkey masturbate to keeping his wiki pages non-public domain? < 1203783684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cry and remove them when realizing the wiki is PD? < 1203783701 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's what monkeys do. < 1203783843 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :к определению алгоритма < 1203783856 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kolmogorov, why can't you be awesome like Alan Turing? < 1203783872 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And write articles that people can understand. < 1203783892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hay, someone ping eso-std.org < 1203783895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't der < 1203783911 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"403 Forbidden" D: < 1203783951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sok < 1203785007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs - RMS = ??? < 1203785083 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better emacs? < 1203785111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1203785128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last time he wasn't maintaining Emacs, Emacs spent 5 years without a release, IIRC. < 1203785136 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1203785143 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this news is sounding better and better < 1203785171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs without RMS is like Apple without Jobs. < 1203785187 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it means no emacs, I'm all for it < 1203785196 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the emacs Newton" < 1203785371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The hell is wrong with you? < 1203785380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you don't like emacs, you don't have to *use* it. < 1203785404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: My thoughts exactly. *shudder* < 1203785539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't talk about Apple without Jobs. It gives me nightmares. < 1203785550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Albeit, probably in part because of the wonderful RDF.) < 1203785566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And it's called editor wars, n00blet. < 1203785583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Who gives a fuck? < 1203785622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just be happy knowing I can do M-x M-butterfly < 1203785624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Who the fuck disabled your humour node? < 1203785637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An editor war is not funny, it's boring. < 1203785637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you can't LIVE without your precious emacs without rms. It's too special, not for joking about. Sorry, sorry. < 1203785674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's either damnably insulting, or not a bad joke. < 1203785678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't quite decide which. < 1203785788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly the latter, a tiny bit of the former because I'm an asshole./ < 1203785789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203786563 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203788117 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203788233 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello everybody < 1203788271 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello little man. < 1203789605 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1203791469 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203791471 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-34-30.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1203792297 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203792640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rehi slereah_ hi oerjan < 1203792660 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello little man. < 1203792749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"little man"? < 1203792758 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little man. < 1203792775 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call each and every man little man. < 1203792780 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also most women. < 1203792832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Sgeo is a 7 feet 68 year old black woman from New Carolina. but she won't admit it of course. except to confuse us. < 1203792845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol oerjan < 1203792857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"New Carolina"? < 1203792868 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a fusion between Hillary and Obama? < 1203792877 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's what America wants. < 1203792894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*south < 1203792913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would be South York < 1203792962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=blm4xPO_iIA < 1203792963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that New Carolina gives several google hits < 1203793401 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203793815 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1203793846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi puzzlet_ and SimonRC < 1203794116 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203798619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203798746 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203798996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rehird < 1203799058 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203799204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203799211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re, ehird. rehird. < 1203799513 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, rehi + ehird = rehird < 1203799540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, somehow, I failed to notice thhat < 1203799657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that's good. < 1203799659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rehi, ehird. rehird. < 1203801373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:29:59 Razor-X: Thou shalt not build regexp's into a base language :P < 1203801378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the #esoteric logs. < 1203801393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, could you tell me again how you defined the Plof3 syntax? :p < 1203801423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no gregor here < 1203801580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regexes are used in PSOX < 1203801721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how's work on PEBBLE2? < 1203801748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ami 3488 < 1203801753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ern wribg cgab < 1203801786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flib gnor fre? < 1203801850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??/ < 1203801864 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1203801905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks for unicode and finds none < 1203801919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was typoing < 1203801940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whon lov was typoneswe < 1203802013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /dev/null < 1203802346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You've reached this channel because the channel you tried to enter has been configured with join throttling (+J). There may be a monad attack in progress there, or simply unusually heavy interest. Please leave this monad and return again. Your channel may also be "arrows-only" (+r); join #please_register for more information. If you need help, massage a freenode staffer or email staff@freenode.net .... Thanks! < 1203802490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+r? "arrows-only"? < 1203802493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1203802496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1203802506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some crazy monad thing I guess < 1203802553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in doubt, escalate. the monad was already there. < 1203802590 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrows are a generalisation of monads to inputs as well as outputs < 1203802613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1203802629 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuh < 1203802643 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a strange sense of humour < 1203802729 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a SERVANT OF THE MACHINE < 1203802777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM NOT &"NO CARRIER < 1203802871 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++ATH0 < 1203803006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: regexp's are in psox core < 1203803007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1203803025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: were you here yesterday for the spiritual guy? < 1203803032 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes I was. < 1203803076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, the PSOX reference implementation's core < 1203803082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203803083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean oerjan < 1203803085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maent < 1203803088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*meant < 1203803090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does this look: < 1203803091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x00 0x06 0x01 FNUM(1)/cd STRINGNL/dirname 0x0A < 1203803091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Makes directory dirname if it doesn't exist (if it does, it's harmless) < 1203803091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If cd is not 0x00, changes current directory to that directory regardless of whether or not it existed beforehand < 1203803102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i briefly noticed in the logs < 1203803116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it in < 1203803174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he was pretty good at convincing himself. < 1203803380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am _not_ an "atheist or agnostic", for what it is worth. although i was from about 1994 to a day in the summer of 1998. < 1203803419 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did Gawd appear to you? < 1203803439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i opened a book at a random page in desperation. < 1203803442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what happened on that day < 1203803454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page spoke about opening books on random pages. < 1203803460 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1203803534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that caused you to believe what? < 1203803550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in syncronicity. < 1203803777 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, man. :( < 1203803778 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/departments/syndicates/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003712741 < 1203804070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what are you? just curious < 1203804079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: WHAT NO < 1203804090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to kill someone < 1203804091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203804103 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203804109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boy, that typo was perfectly timd < 1203804111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timed < 1203804330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone died? < 1203804341 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaaaaaargh < 1203804356 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Promise me, before I die... < 1203804358 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To serve the machine < 1203804381 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes < 1203804549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should use unbuffered for all files? < 1203806239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should ls listings be a list of files delimited by \n and terminated with NUL, or delimited by NUL and terminated with \n? < 1203806254 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203806261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihope < 1203806264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should ls listings be a list of files delimited by \n and terminated with NUL, or delimited by NUL and terminated with \n? < 1203806273 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1203806304 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delimited by \n and terminated with NUL. < 1203806357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ty. Why? < 1203806425 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOSE < 1203806428 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PBF D-8 < 1203806453 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because NUL seems bigger. < 1203806470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear gregor was here, just horribly maimed < 1203806473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_D6Gregor1RFeZi, what's with that name? < 1203806488 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mangled. < 1203806505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to write a dinky little esolang which is like haskell, but crazier < 1203806505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get the license plate? < 1203806510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, the Y combinator types in it < 1203806516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i think every term will type in it < 1203806517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1203806524 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you and yout Haskell! < 1203806536 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how about run-time lazy type checking? :P < 1203806540 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ haskell -v < 1203806540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haha :) < 1203806544 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUT Haskell v1 < 1203806555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will have a type inference engine of course < 1203806560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hope i can get it to infer recursive types < 1203806576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\f -> f f) infers to '(a = a -> b) -> b' < 1203806603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just like you were going to work on SOXP? < 1203806697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You should really get over it. Sheesh. < 1203806708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would like to see a SOXP < 1203806718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can whine about it being a bad idea? < 1203806724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you did, originally < 1203806752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least a GUI domain, if you're not doing your SOXP project < 1203806771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you're working on that < 1203806803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1203806832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's 'coerce' in my language (which is called Facade): < 1203806833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce :: a -> b;; < 1203806833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce = \a -> a;; < 1203806836 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1203806837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use like: < 1203806859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf :: [Int];; # strings are lists of unicode codepoints < 1203806867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf = coerce 5;; < 1203806881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will give you the internal representation of 5, when treated as a list of integers < 1203806885 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, coerce would be implemented as "My gosh, why would you want to do a thing like that?" < 1203806897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: But this is so much more fun! < 1203806908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will work on it if you don't work on it < 1203806915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first I'm working on File I/O < 1203806919 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess coerce is nice when you want to get at internal representations. < 1203806943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Not really, since there'll be no way to sanely get at it < 1203806951 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1203806958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and here's map: < 1203806959 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's only good for fun and circumvention? < 1203806968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> b < 1203806981 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that do, then? < 1203806999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map = \f -> \xs -> if (equal xs []) [] (cons (f (head xs)) (map f (tail xs)) < 1203807005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes i'm aware that looks like lisp < 1203807011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is ... lightweight < 1203807014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will improve it < 1203807046 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that [a] -> b and not [a] -> [b]? < 1203807049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1203807051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is [b] < 1203807052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1203807068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowzers, I think I need 'hindley/milner type inference for retards' < 1203807094 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have some type declarations: Disguise : RealType a -> a; Undisguise : a -> RealType a < 1203807100 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1203807108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: define 'RealType' < 1203807164 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disguise : a -> b; Undisguise : (\x : a) => RealType x < 1203807177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1203807178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1203807186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another note < 1203807187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :InfElemList : [InfElemList];; < 1203807191 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Disguise . Undisguise = id makes it work. :-P < 1203807195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that can be inferred automatically: < 1203807200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xs = [xs];; < 1203807202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t xs < 1203807205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = [a] < 1203807330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Actually... will hindley/milner work for this? < 1203807337 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1203807348 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the (a = a -> b) -> b type of stuff. < 1203807412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention everyoen interested in PSOX, including pikhq: Does this look good? http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-fileio.txt < 1203807432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. < 1203807439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpage for false(1): 'do nothing, unsuccessfully' < 1203807440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very zen < 1203807446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's break it down < 1203807452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INITIAL GOAL: do nothing < 1203807457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPECIFIER: unsuccessfully < 1203807471 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it actually does something? Gasp. < 1203807475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~X where PURPOSE = X & SPECIFIER = 'unsuccessfully' < 1203807486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURPOSE: not (do nothing) < 1203807489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURPOSE: don't (do nothing) < 1203807495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~nothing = something < 1203807498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURPOSE: do something < 1203807509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, 'false' actually fails to do anything, therefore its manpage is incorrect. < 1203807517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, it does 'return 1;'. But still.) < 1203807526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either its manpage is incorrect, or there's a bug, that is. < 1203807537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return 1; counts as something < 1203807541 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't forget this fun set of declarations: extensible data Real; Zero : Real; One : Real; a + b + c = a + (b + c); a * b * c = a * (b * c); a + b = b + a; a * b = b * a; Zero + a = a; One * a = a; Zero * a = a; a * (b + c) = a * b + a * c; I don't feel like typing up the least upper bound property; Not (Zero = One) < 1203807543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the manpage for true(1) that's wrong < 1203807575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: You know I think when I have an implementation YOU can type this all up. :-P < 1203807623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1203807626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First thing first - an AST! < 1203807650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1203807655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't group 'a :: b' and 'a = b' < 1203807665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thingy can sort that out. < 1203807832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the watchy? < 1203807876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1203808415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: http://hpaste.org/5849 < 1203808418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an AST < 1203808420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any comments? < 1203808454 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1203808463 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What means AST? < 1203808467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: OK, I mean -- is there anything you'd like to see there :P < 1203808469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: Parse tree < 1203808472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstract Syntax Tree < 1203808498 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multi-argument lambdas? < 1203808513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Haskell doesn't have those. < 1203808537 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a b -> Foo? < 1203808565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: And what is the type of that? < 1203808571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alternate: Give me another way to write that.) < 1203808580 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a -> \b -> Foo < 1203808583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1203808596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, if wanted, just parse '\a b -> Foo' as '\a -> \b -> Foo' < 1203808607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same reason I don't have a special 'f x = ...' definition. < 1203808611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just parse it as 'f = \x -> ...' < 1203808615 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah. < 1203809083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Wow, parsing [a,b,c,...] is actually kinda hard with parsec. < 1203809141 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[, repeating expression-comma, optional expression, ]? < 1203809192 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203809202 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or [, optional (repeating expression-comma, expression), ]? < 1203809219 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that optional (expression, repeating comma-expression), actually. Maybe. < 1203809345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: Yeah, it's just that in Parsec all that 'optional' stuff can get ugly < 1203809422 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not too ugly if you're careful. < 1203809613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use sepBy < 1203809672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ^^ < 1203809697 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, I feel like making a pseudo-BNF definition that recognizes a prime number. < 1203809740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but #haskell want me to use lexeme and TokenParser! :-P < 1203809744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: Is that... possible? < 1203809759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for the [a,b,c,...] lists < 1203809778 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say pseudo-. < 1203809832 0 :uvanta!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203809846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: am funcuzzled < 1203809897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sepBy p delim parses nothing, or p, or any number of p's separated by delim's < 1203809959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reference example is commaSep p = p `sepBy` (symbol ",") < 1203810071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would i be better using TokenParser, or that? < 1203810077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Facade's grammar isn't that complex.. < 1203810094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, symbol is part of TokenParser < 1203810106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1203810118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but .. can I mix regular parsers with that? < 1203810128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1203810174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and does that skip whitespace? < 1203810181 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm wondering whether it's possible to read in an integer in little-endian binary and output it in little-endian decimal using finite storage. < 1203810185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TokenParser gives you parsers for various individual token types, automatically skipping space and comments after them < 1203810202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, essentially, i can't just drop that in < 1203810215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, personally, i have no idea how to use TokenParser < 1203810217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can < 1203810220 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203810220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Parsec docs aren't very helpful < 1203810231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, but how will that sepBy help me handle whitespace? < 1203810231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an example using it < 1203810243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sepBy has nothing to do with the whitespace < 1203810260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1203810262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just for parsing something structured like a list with delimiters < 1203810267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so; what is the best solution? < 1203810273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i have a standard language grammar < 1203810282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mostly entirely whitespace insensitivity < 1203810293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite a lot of deliminated things like that < 1203810301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a TokenParser thing for unifying all that skipping and stuff? < 1203810310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because right now i have various space skipping littered about. < 1203810319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if TokenParser can help me get rid of that too.. < 1203810320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1203810333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexeme p parses p, then skips. < 1203810375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the other parsers defined by TokenParser are wrapped with lexeme < 1203810412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like symbol, which parses a string of operator-like symbols < 1203810426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a specific one) < 1203810436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there an example unifying all that? < 1203810486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the Lexical Analysis section < 1203810550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*analysis < 1203810689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so I define a thingy called lexer < 1203810691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a thingy < 1203810704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a TokenParser () < 1203810827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the reference section "The members of TokenParser" < 1203810974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there is even a specific commaSep parser. scratch my suggestion of explicitly using sepBy, then. < 1203811027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm, I don't like the look of that languagedef stuff < 1203811028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squares (commaSep p) :) < 1203811031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much hand-waving magic.. < 1203811052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah it does make some assumptions < 1203811087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a section describing those fields too < 1203811148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The members of LanguageDef) < 1203811158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is implementing domain 0x06 < 1203811199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's of course designed to allow you to easily parse the tokens of an "ordinary" language < 1203811295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I'm going to write my own TokenParser :( < 1203811305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But .. do I have to define, like, everything in that newtype? < 1203811338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er you are not just writing your own LanguageDef? < 1203811347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't like it! it's too magical :( < 1203811376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, do BF programs really need to be able to tell the perms? < 1203811390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think TokenParser itself is used for anything other than extracting its fields, so if you are writing yourself there is no point in including anything other than what you use < 1203811425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hey, do BF programs really need GUIs? < 1203811439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you still work on the GUI stuff after answering that; then add the perms. < 1203811444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should definitely read up on the ParsecCombinator section then < 1203811459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1203811464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I just want LanguageDef, sans magic. < 1203811473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just something that will help me sort out my whitespace & stuff. < 1203811487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sepBy and between makes it easy to write things like commaSep and square, e.g.) < 1203811569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to leave out the permissions check < 1203811581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed, I just want things like commaSep. < 1203811591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, then, I'd have to handle whitespace inside all of that. < 1203811593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus my request. < 1203811640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps try the emptyDef style < 1203811674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comments, no predefined names < 1203811700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves function 0x00 0x06 0x05 undefined < 1203811714 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-224-108.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1203811805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without comments all of the general combinators should just skip spaces and nothing else < 1203811819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mm, it still has languagey stuff though < 1203811821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, spaces and newlines, i assume < 1203811828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, operators < 1203811869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think those are used unless you use the specific combinators for parsing operators or identifiers < 1203811979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okies < 1203812000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1203812002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexer :: TokenParser () < 1203812002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexer = makeTokenParser emptyDef < 1203812059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so (char 's') should now be written (symbol "s") < 1203812060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1203812080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you want to skip space after it < 1203812122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, when i write things like a rule for consing.. < 1203812129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i 1. avoid inf loops 2. get the precedence right? < 1203812136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess by doing crazy lexing. :( < 1203812233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION evilly points ehird toward the Expressions and Module ParsecExpr sections < 1203812417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes there is an Examples sections with a few links < 1203813455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should include os.stat() as a function> < 1203813455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1203813483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, thermo.stat() < 1203813497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thermo? < 1203813500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1203813635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/94 < 1203813709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1203813911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/95 < 1203814132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203814480 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's something i'm wondering: how would you operate a flux capacitor, if it were to be invented? < 1203814533 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carefully :P < 1203814563 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At maximum power < 1203814567 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You've reached this channel because the channel you tried to enter has been configured with join throttling (+J). There may be a 4chan attack in progress there, or simply unusually heavy interest. Please leave this monad and return again. Your channel may also be "arrows-only" (+r); join #please_register for more information. If you need help, massage a freenode staffer or email staff@freenode.net .... Thanks! < 1203814579 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a twoduck CPU < 1203814602 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking: if you charge it one way, you go forwards on discharge, and same thing the other way but going backwards. < 1203814639 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was invented during a concussion vision, so why not < 1203815452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make a combined cp/vm < 1203815452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv < 1203815513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I would be able to add rm into that combo < 1203815518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's probably a bad idea.. < 1203815665 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i just found out that libfftw is automatically generated by ocaml code < 1203815942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1203819185 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@c-69-243-81-92.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1203819658 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1203822798 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203826789 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203826815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1203826822 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1203830171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203832352 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1203832639 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Read error: 110 (Connection chickened out)" < 1203835500 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203836601 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203839999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1203840000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203846547 0 :_D6Gregor1RFeZi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR < 1203849047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bus" < 1203853362 0 :RedDak!n=dak@79.26.80.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203854464 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203854625 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"php you!" < 1203858168 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1203862313 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1203863599 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1203863700 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1203864009 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1203864049 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wassabi < 1203864086 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo yo yo < 1203864099 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wassup holmes :P < 1203864270 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just chillin dude, you? < 1203864288 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1203864369 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pretty much the same. Nothing to do this weekend, except chill ;) < 1203864391 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to read the Kolmogorov paper this week end < 1203864405 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be easier in Russian. < 1203864451 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pshh... Beats me, I'm most certainly not in the position to comment - whatsoever < 1203865840 0 :RedDak!n=dak@79.26.80.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1203867473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1203868147 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1203872358 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1203872512 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1203996047 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1203996047 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1203996052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, does it work with PSOX? Offer PSOX integration? *keeps trying to drum up interest in PSOX* < 1203996069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does want to see tools with PSOX integration < 1203996082 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... I suppose I could write a simple header or something once I get I/O down? < 1203996095 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1203996137 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to add module, change coming to domain 0x04 < 1203996140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a heads-up < 1203996146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo even < 1203996439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/96 nothing too serious < 1203996446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/changeset/97 slight correction < 1203996544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serious updates on Wednesday though relating to safety < 1203996784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely considers a BF.PSX language.. < 1203997282 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my assembler now allows for the definition of constants- this significantly improves readability < 1203999728 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaan, I look at the X86 instruction set. < 1203999749 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To think that even machine code's got more instructions than most esolangs! < 1203999878 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got like 30 jump instructions :o < 1203999880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: x86 assembly *is* an Esolang. < 1203999902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Esolang/esolang/ < 1203999976 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is, then it is "commercial" and "sold out" :o < 1203999984 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While brainfuck remains indie. Or something. < 1204000098 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, are there direct equivalents to some BF instructions in X86? < 1204000180 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. You actually have to know computer architecture for x86. < 1204001900 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: behold the wonder and fear that is CISC < 1204001960 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn MIPS assembly, and then look at the x86 instruction set and you'll pretty much hate the entire computer industry < 1204002266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I *love* x86 assembly. < 1204002275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In *exactly* the same way as I love Brainfuck. < 1204002275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1204002502 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204002802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, hm? < 1204002812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Learn MIPS assembly, and then look at the x86 instruction set and you'll pretty much hate the entire computer industry < 1204002815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1204002858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't think me leaving means you don't have to respond.. I can read logs you know < 1204002876 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1204002882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably MIPS is a thousand times more elegant than x86, despite the second being ubiquitous < 1204002897 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has it pretty much right < 1204002915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said earlier: x86 assembly is an esolang in its own right. < 1204002919 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CISC hurts your insides when you know a really good RISC architecture < 1204002961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno: there's something to be said about switching to 32-bit mode being nontrivial. < 1204002964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1204003058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6231761.html < 1204003069 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here besides me think that this is either useless or harmful? < 1204003107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, g'night all < 1204003214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204005413 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1204006320 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204006326 0 :immybo_!n=IceChat7@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204006344 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204006363 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204006451 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :If this channel has been deleted, how come we're in it? "This channel" refers to the alternative, since that's where we are. So if the alternative has been deleted where are we? Floating around in a void of zero channels? < 1204006484 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for yesterday's log < 1204006531 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric/20080225 < 1204006535 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll down about halfway < 1204006579 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wants to play Theatre, by Brenten Wyber, join #interactive-fiction < 1204007688 0 :immybo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immybo[A] < 1204008225 0 :immybo[A]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immybo_ < 1204008230 0 :immybo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"He who laughs last, thinks slowest" < 1204011733 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204011766 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1204012502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1204012799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1204012800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1204013277 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To remove air from a flask, fill it with water, tip the water out, and put the cork in quick before the air can get back in." < 1204013326 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For a nosebleed: Put the nose much lower then the body until the heart stops." < 1204013581 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "Do not use if you cannot see clearly to read the information in the information booklet." -- In the information booklet. < 1204013595 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not use while sleeping or unconscious." < 1204013603 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recycled flush water unsafe for drinking." < 1204013625 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not use near fire, flame, or sparks." -- On an "Aim-n-Flame" fireplace lighter. < 1204013661 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not recharge, put in backwards, or use." -- On a battery. < 1204013679 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For use by trained personnel only." -- On a can of air freshener. < 1204013703 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: Do not climb inside this bag and zip it up. Doing so will cause injury and death." -- A label inside a protective bag (for fragile objects), which measures 15cm by 15cm by 12cm. < 1204013719 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, every time i paste one i tell myself it will be the last, then i read the next. < 1204013742 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: has been found to cause cancer in laboratory mice." -- On a box of rat poison. < 1204013749 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fragile. Do not drop." -- Posted on a Boeing 757. < 1204013783 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Product will be hot after heating." -- On a supermarket dessert box. < 1204013802 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"May be harmful if swallowed." -- On a shipment of hammers. < 1204013843 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not dishwasher safe." -- On a remote control for a TV. < 1204013894 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Malfunction: Too less water." -- A notice left on a coffee machine." < 1204013930 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In case of flood, proceed uphill. In case of flash flood, proceed uphill quickly." -- One of the emergency safety procedures at a summer camp. < 1204013947 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some materials may irritate sensitive skin. Please look at the materials if you believe this may be the case. < 1204013947 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Materials: < 1204013947 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Covering: 100% Unknown. < 1204013947 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuffing: 100% Unknown." < 1204013947 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- On a pillow. < 1204013950 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops < 1204014380 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204026330 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204030560 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204030560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204030560 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204030617 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204030617 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204030617 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204034093 0 :RedDak!n=dak@79.26.80.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204034609 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-122.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204035396 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204035424 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204036541 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204041745 0 :n0nsense!n=chatzill@p57B39E52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1204041759 0 :n0nsense!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1204042468 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204043092 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1204045653 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204045833 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204046852 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204050086 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> from __future__ import braces < 1204050088 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File "", line 1 < 1204050091 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: not a chance < 1204050998 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204051582 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1204051672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better braces than those things ruby has < 1204051679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the solution Haskell used? < 1204051689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow layout, but if you don't like it you can use braces and semicolons C-style < 1204051696 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204051699 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1204051725 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) haskell's whitespace-sensitive layout is much trickier than python's and harder to get right < 1204051741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) in practice, everybody uses it anyway, and nobody uses braces much < 1204051752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's looks nicer than Python's IMO < 1204051766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the brace-semicolon style is useful for short things you want to fit on one line < 1204051769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is optimized for looking nice < 1204051779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although that would be more useful in Python than it is in Haskell) < 1204051800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls attempting to type Python loops in to bsmnt_bot via IRC < 1204051823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a case of ~exec exec("while 1:\n do_something;") < 1204051833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ought to be a better way < 1204052045 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell uses the offside rule I think, except where it doesn't < 1204052241 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, extending python with c is a chore. < 1204052396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: your statement is a tautology. But what is the offside rule? < 1204052400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this context?) < 1204052447 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to express it < 1204052486 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that (usually) expresions must fit into the least southeast quadrant that contains their initial word < 1204052490 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly < 1204052731 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have ever remembered a formal definition of the indentation rules < 1204052739 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just intuitive < 1204052769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, extending ocaml with c: < 1204052771 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User primitives with arity greater than 5 should be implemented by two C functions. The first function, to be used in conjunction with the bytecode compiler ocamlc, receives two arguments: a pointer to an array of Caml values (the values for the arguments), and an integer which is the number of arguments provided. < 1204052784 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1204053344 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exact rules are a bit complicated: http://haskell.org/onlinereport/syntax-iso.html#layout < 1204054009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite example in that is do a == b == c < 1204054039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because == is non-associative, the only possible way to parse it is (do {a == b}) == c < 1204054100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we just need a program where that actually types... < 1204054220 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell ffi is so nice < 1204054227 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1204054234 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well < 1204054247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was planning an esoteric ffi < 1204054252 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: compared to Python < 1204054255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ocaml < 1204054262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the relationships between programs are shown by drawing flowcharts in ASCII art < 1204054267 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you reading about ffis? < 1204054268 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice because the c side doesn't need to know about haskell < 1204054272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't really worked out the details < 1204054276 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1204054278 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your c functions are simply c functions < 1204054282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a wrapper < 1204054284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Prolog's was good too < 1204054289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and worked much the same way < 1204054299 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but haskell is actually a good language :) < 1204054300 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, the C ffi interacts poorly with Haskell threads < 1204054308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even do something like this: < 1204054314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: really? that could hurt me < 1204054315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Prolog) call a C function < 1204054320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in C) call a Prolog function < 1204054325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what are the problems? < 1204054326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Prolog) fail < 1204054335 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bizarre thing is that both Prolog and Haskell have different evaluation orders than C. < 1204054340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C function just gets cut out altogether, as if it itself had failed < 1204054356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Prolog's evaluation order is the same as C's. It's an eager language < 1204054360 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I think that no thread-switching occurs while a C function is running < 1204054369 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have a fix around somewhere < 1204054369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that Prolog also has a re-evaluation order... < 1204054379 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was what I was refering to < 1204054386 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems abit Ironic < 1204054391 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, "ironic" < 1204054395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly annoyed with Prolog, because it's almost a very nice language < 1204054406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's things you should be able to do with it but can't < 1204054409 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1204054413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like solve simultaneous equations, for instance < 1204054434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be able to write goal :- A = B + 1, A = 2* B + 2, write(A). < 1204054444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Prolog interps can't handle that sort of thing < 1204054464 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's the wrong side of Gödel < 1204054476 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1204054476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes perfect sense within the language, it's just confusing to figure out how to interpret, and probably uncomputable < 1204054483 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1204054515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal :- A > 2, B > 2, integer(A), integer(B), A * B = (insert large prime here), write(A). < 1204054539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning a blatantly uncomputable esolang version of Prolog to address these problems < 1204054557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want something to be worried about, ponder that user-defined functions have to start with capital letters < 1204054570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there's no backtracking, it uses multithreading instead < 1204054581 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: oh, that shouldn't be a problem for me, but i see how that can be a pain. < 1204054581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an infinite loop is impossible, but it's super-TC anyway < 1204054618 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal :- A > 1, B > 1, C > 1, N > 2, A^N + B^N = C^N < 1204054619 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1204054842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language sorts that out simply by multithreading and processing all possible values of A, B, C, and N in parallel. < 1204054852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably want to restrict them to be integers, though. < 1204054862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it not prove it impossible? < 1204054889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how lame! < 1204054893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the proof is correct, it ought to fail < 1204054928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the integer restriction is there < 1204054940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wanted to design a programming language in which just about everything was very easy to express < 1204054950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so programmer productivity could be massive < 1204054957 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python? < 1204054962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that Prolog-like language < 1204054991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try translating C's ?: operator into Python. It's possible, but ugly and nonintuitive < 1204055034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: prove impossible == fail, no? < 1204055044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204055066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, every statement in the entire program puts a condition on the state of the world < 1204055077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a failure means that the conditions are incompatible. < 1204055101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as SimonRC's conditions above, plus a condition restricting A, B, C, N to be integers < 1204055117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(point of interest: does anyone know if the result also holds for non-integer N?) < 1204055170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, after the guy spent 20 years solving that for integer n, i quickly extended for reals. < 1204055217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quickly extended for negative numbers < 1204055226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you know the result for positive numbers, that's easy to prove < 1204055243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(results for -1 and -2, no results for <=-3) < 1204055244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for negative N? < 1204055249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204055258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, no results for 0 either < 1204055265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1204055268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so +2, +1, -1, -2 are the only integer values of N that work < 1204055346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove the result for negative N, just multiply both sides by (A*B)^-N: < 1204055361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, naturally < 1204055445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"looking fruitlessly for the original #esoteric..." < 1204055564 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1204055575 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not totally sure that proof works < 1204055594 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if z = -n, I get: b^z + a^z = (ab/c)^z < 1204055600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnÍ„'t try, but just realized that's not what i was thinking < 1204055607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and started looking at it < 1204055715 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204055821 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1204055828 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.accu.org/index.php/book_reviews?url=search.xqy%3Fx&term=schildt < 1204055878 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at all the results that are not by Schildt, and you will see that Schildt is the standard for measuring crapness of C++ books < 1204055926 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, haskell ffi is awesome. < 1204055935 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just, like, works < 1204055936 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said that above < 1204055942 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written some? < 1204055964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just playing < 1204055989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i figured out how to run ghc to compile it (which took a while because there's like, no documentation anywhere), it all seems easy < 1204056028 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the code on-line? < 1204056053 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TheChris < 1204056055 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but there's nothing there < 1204056064 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just create an array in c and send it to haskell. < 1204056096 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using a thing to automatically generate the haskell declarations from the C ones? < 1204056109 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204056114 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1204056127 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't need any heavy machinery, just interface with one c function i have < 1204056139 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just seem to recall the syntax for the declaration on the Haskell side to be a bit arcane < 1204056146 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I am thinking of something else < 1204056156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1204056172 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my function takes no arguments, and returns a pointer to an array of doubles. < 1204056181 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the declaration is: foreign import ccall "module.h getArray" _getArray :: IO (Ptr Double) < 1204056187 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1204056193 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1204056219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then from that pointer, i create an actual haskell list of doubles (i know the size in advance): < 1204056222 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getArray :: IO [Double] < 1204056224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getArray = do ptr <- _getArray peekArray arrayLen ptr < 1204056226 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1204056232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it killed my newlines < 1204056244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getArray = do {ptr <- _getArray; peekArray arrayLen ptr} < 1204056251 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1204056268 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1204056274 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't expect it to get any prettier than that... < 1204056348 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about: getArray = _getArray >>= peekArray arrayLen < 1204056351 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1204056394 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you honestly think that's more readable? :) < 1204056405 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204056419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm just not used to haskell enough < 1204056439 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>= is no worse that unix pipes < 1204056772 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying >>= is bad < 1204056803 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think my version is better < 1204056826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you're not 100% sure what _getArray and peekArray do, my version makes it very obvious < 1204056878 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in absence of a good haskell IDE that would tell you the type of peekArray as you hover the mouse over it, i think being explicit helps. < 1204057197 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i don't actually want a list... i want an array... < 1204057258 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there an appropriate instance of Array? < 1204057263 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1204057274 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204057319 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1204057380 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION researches Data.Array.Storable < 1204057406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds unsafeForeignPtrToStorableArray < 1204057505 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laments haskell's lack of proper documentation < 1204057538 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's idea of docs is type signatures < 1204057594 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bloody powerful ones < 1204057607 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing vague like "Collection" < 1204057630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhhhhhh < 1204057634 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeForeignPtrToStorableArray :: Ix i => ForeignPtr e -> (i, i) -> IO (StorableArray i e) < 1204057656 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems fine to me < 1204057662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's (i, i)? < 1204057668 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explains... < 1204057737 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given any type i that is usable as an array index, the function takes in a ForeignPtr e (e = element type) and the array bounds and returns an IO of a Haskelly version of the array < 1204057769 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ix i => ... (i, i) ... almost always means array bounds < 1204057774 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the bounds inclusive or exclusive? < 1204057782 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, not sure < 1204057797 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see... < 1204057814 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice some of the instances there are of Ix, BTW... < 1204057840 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Ix i, Ix j, Ix k) => Ix (i, j, k) and such like < 1204057848 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper multi-dimensional arrays < 1204057873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the documentation for unsafeForeignPtrToStorableArray should really say if the bounds are inclusive or exclusive < 1204057883 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it doesn't, at least the documentation for Ix should < 1204057885 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't either! < 1204057891 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will be same as everywhere else, I assume < 1204057897 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1204057897 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1204057925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inclusive, apparently. Had to check in ghci. < 1204058161 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1204058169 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function is a little less pretty now: < 1204058174 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getArray :: IO (StorableArray Int Double) < 1204058174 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getArray = do ptr <- _getArray fp <- newForeignPtr_ ptr unsafeForeignPtrToStorableArray fp (0, arrayLen-1) < 1204058187 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, i don't know what's going on with indentation. < 1204058214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getArray = do {ptr <- _getArray; fp <- newForeignPtr_ ptr; unsafeForeignPtrToStorableArray fp (0, arrayLen-1)} < 1204058248 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1204058603 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204058612 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: for why indices are inclusive, see the recent conv on #haskell < 1204058623 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(suppose you are indexing on Bool...) < 1204058770 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would you actually? Especially an array imported from C? < 1204058836 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you might have your own instance of Enum and Ix that corresponds to a load of C #defines < 1204058838 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of understand the reasoning, but realistically this only clutters the semantics to address about 0.00001% of the usage. < 1204058896 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function that turns c-style bounds into Haskell bounds is trivial to write < 1204058950 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sure < 1204058969 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's among things like "begin and end instead of braces are very easy to define in C" < 1204058976 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Haskell bounds interact well with [a..b] < 1204059011 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is really one for the theoretical purity. And that means indexing on all kinds of crap, not just numbers. < 1204059045 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. i can live with that. < 1204059076 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204059122 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do like syntactic sugar, though < 1204059162 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a big deal < 1204059237 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sounds like he's always complaining, and he really isn't. < 1204059245 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wish haskell had proper docs :D < 1204059339 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've done that one already < 1204059408 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i guess i should actually start coding or something. < 1204059412 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or go for lunch. < 1204061220 0 :TheChris!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1204061819 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: have you actually written anything serious in haskell? < 1204062156 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204062177 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some extensions to a miniture Java compiler. < 1204062244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1204062255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it compile to? < 1204062262 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C subset < 1204062304 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! < 1204062360 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the subset was designed to be machine-code-like < 1204062374 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an obscene collection of addressing modes < 1204062386 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were some register variables < 1204062426 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented, among others, a jump optimiser < 1204062440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anything practical come out of it? < 1204062453 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked at the flowgraph and chose a set of paths with the minimal number of jump instructions < 1204062472 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I evaluated the results, and found that it was absofuckinglutely useless < 1204062491 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1204062499 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's control structures aren't complex enough to benefit from the jump optimisation < 1204062539 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect it only really shines when you have deep breaks, "break 5;" or whatever < 1204062584 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only breaks the miniture java had were in the conditions of loops, immediately at the top < 1204062590 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they only wen out 1 < 1204063223 0 :uvanta!n=uvanta__@116.45.53.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204063837 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1204064465 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes < 1204064643 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204064664 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204065265 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204065525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204065730 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204065820 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204065831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1204066856 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204066964 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204068394 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liempt: speaking of bold, does that work? < 1204068404 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit, wrong channel < 1204068428 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it? < 1204068432 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't we bold? < 1204068436 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1204068437 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1204069032 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204069046 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204069259 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1204069766 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204070614 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1204070702 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Schönhage's machines easier to understand than Kolmogorov's? < 1204070721 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a clearer paper might do! < 1204071316 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is, I can't find anywhere in his article an example that doesn't involve the graph itself! < 1204071340 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only example is "How to double the graph". < 1204071366 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a whole lot helpful for a more useful algorithm. < 1204073331 0 :RainbowTrout!n=chatzill@74-38-30-170.dsl1.pco.ca.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204073367 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1204073440 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cake Prophet < 1204073468 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAKE PROPHET < 1204073479 0 :RainbowTrout!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204073495 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1204073527 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impatient lad! < 1204075334 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1204075634 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1204078179 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1204078485 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204081485 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204082370 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1204082381 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1204083165 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204084275 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@ppp-70-226-163-225.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204084367 0 :uvanta!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If you're seeing this message, it's probably XChat's fault." < 1204085038 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204096810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204099199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1204099200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1204100095 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204100260 0 :FurFur!n=nodquiet@209.181.185.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204100325 0 :FurFur!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1204105654 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204109902 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204113391 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204120102 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1204120351 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204120383 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204121039 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204121078 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204122814 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204123660 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204127936 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204131315 0 :n0nsense!n=chatzill@p57B3A507.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1204131324 0 :n0nsense!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204132526 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204135016 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204136306 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-122.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204136439 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204137381 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204137804 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204139943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't one's complement used more often? < 1204139960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to create a two's complement system by just using unsigned adders and disregarding the carry < 1204139980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looping the carry from the msb round to the carry input of the lsb gives you ones' complement < 1204140001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(albeit with -0 being the standard representation of 0 and +0 being impossible to get unless you start a number at that value) < 1204140032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one big advantage is that if you use the right number of bits, you can make the number of available integers a prime < 1204140040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that multiplication is completely reversible < 1204140061 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello ais523. < 1204140067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello slereah_ < 1204140170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... my rant about 1's complement doesn't seem to have sparked off a discussion yet < 1204140230 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know if the others are here, and I don't know what's 1's complement. < 1204140253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most computers represent negative numbers using 2's complement < 1204140278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you're storing numbers in binary (unless you're using TriINTERCAL or Malbolge, this is likely), and that you have a fixed number of bits (i.e. not a bignum) < 1204140296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you form the 2's complement of a number by changing all 0s to 1s in the number and 1s to 0s, and then adding 1 < 1204140303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1's complement is the same except that you don't add the 1 < 1204140308 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1204140340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advantage of 2's complement, which is the reason it's so commonly used, is that signed and unsigned arithmetic work the same way; for signed arithmetic, you just disregard the carry < 1204140343 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't you have problems differentiation between, say, -1 and 255? < 1204140361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an 8-bit system, you'd generally range from -127 to +127 < 1204140368 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1204140382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2's complement would go from -128 to +127 < 1204140402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1's complement has two sorts of zero, which act identically, but can be confusing to someone used to how arithmetic normally works) < 1204140427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're normally referred to as +0 and -0, but both act like 0 with respect to all the usual arithmetic operations < 1204140522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real interest comes when the number of bits you use is not a power of 2 < 1204140529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be precise, when 2^n-1 is a prime) < 1204140545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then multiplication by any integer except 0 maps all integers onto unique integers < 1204140578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's almost as easy to implement in hardware as 2's complement (at least in terms of wiring) < 1204140590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slower on average, but the worst-case response time is the same < 1204140639 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where's the gain? < 1204140689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more elegant maths IMO < 1204140710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you can pick one of the zeros to use as 0 and the other one to detect uninitialised data < 1204140839 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More difficult to understand quite unlike a "computer" -- abstract or otherwise." < 1204140844 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boy they've got that right. < 1204140891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you referring to? < 1204140940 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the wiki article on pointers machines. < 1204141131 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be one of the most obscure computing method. < 1204141186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204141194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a vague memory that such things existed < 1204141199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't really understand them < 1204141240 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything based on it? < 1204141258 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to have a concrete example. < 1204141469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after reading a few Google links I think I understand what's happening to some extent now < 1204141553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, at any given point the memory is a graph, with nodes connected to each other by directed coloured edges < 1204141573 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1204141584 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they don't have to be directed apparently. < 1204141598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at each step, there are replacement rules, such as 'if a node is connected to another node via a red edge and then a blue edge, add a green edge pointing to that node from the original node' < 1204141615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe not quite like that, I still don't understand them properly < 1204141632 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand roughly how it works. < 1204141637 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of examples < 1204141646 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proble is, I don't get much how it computes. < 1204141653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usual with esolangs < 1204141670 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of the examples are using problems outside of the graph itself. < 1204141671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the articles said that you could make a cellular automaton by connecting the original graph up as a grid < 1204141687 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swell. < 1204141771 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an example that's sort of useful, though not that clear. < 1204141787 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows how to do a list of integers. < 1204141813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1204141838 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the definition of an algorithm", by Andrei Kolmogorov and Uspenskii. < 1204141851 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204141898 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the Kolmogorov definition adds some strange conditions, like every nodes must have a type and a node can't be connected to two identical types. < 1204141948 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a lot of nodes type 2-3-4-2-3-4-2-3-4... because of it. < 1204141962 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0 is the starting node type and 1 ending type) < 1204143097 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1204143300 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1204143335 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunnet FTW < 1204143361 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whut? < 1204143376 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, M-x dunnet < 1204143400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whodunnet? < 1204143408 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204143411 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game < 1204143418 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a text adventure < 1204143431 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though best run with emacs -batch -l dunnet < 1204143541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's minigolf in movie 4 < 1204143560 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, what, "movie"? < 1204143600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Futurama movie < 1204143615 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1204143620 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relevent to anything? < 1204143628 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204143631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong chan basically < 1204143635 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's Futurama, so probably! < 1204144166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ever tried Lost Kingdoms? < 1204144171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck on the wildcat < 1204144192 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1204144230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned this to ehird, and wrote a serialising BF interp so that I could send a save file, but ehird couldn't solve that bit either < 1204145027 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it originally written in bfbasic? < 1204145063 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1204145070 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that page is wrong? < 1204145119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two versions < 1204145122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original was in BASIC < 1204145133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an improved version was written in BFBASIC and compiled to BF < 1204145150 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any bfbasic source? < 1204145180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know of < 1204145187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the original BASIC source is in binary < 1204145200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could try decompiling, because BFBASIC itself is open-source < 1204145215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone would have to write a decompiler first < 1204145283 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual page only says that the original LK was written in bbc basic and translated to brainfuck... < 1204145291 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say anything about bfbasic < 1204145327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did use BFBASIC, though, I'm pretty sure of it < 1204145344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because the patterns at the end of the source are characteristic of it < 1204145459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, Esolang's entry on Brainfuck states that BFBASIC was used < 1204145469 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the only source I can find < 1204145480 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from various translations of it < 1204145548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many mentions of that game on the Internet anyway, for some reason < 1204145589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, note the mention of Jeffry Johnston in the credits at the bottom of its page < 1204145612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeffry Johnston created BFBASIC, and it also has contributions by Jon Ripley, which would seem to make the situation even more likely < 1204145632 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1204145643 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the bf world is quite small isn't it? < 1204145669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 5 feet across < 1204145671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as small as the rest of the esolang world < 1204145675 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the biggest communauty in esolangs ! < 1204145694 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I wonder if Intercal isn't used more. < 1204145701 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has seniority and all. < 1204145708 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.lang.intercal has com activity < 1204145712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is probably used a lot < 1204145719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't you mean alt.lang.intercal < 1204145723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there really two newsgroups? < 1204145749 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't go as far as "lot". < 1204145761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently ~50 Debian users who send popularity contest stats installed C-INTERCAL, ~30 installed CLC-INTERCAL, single-figures > 1 actually use them) < 1204145826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest stats from http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=intercal are that 4 people used C-INTERCAL recently < 1204145851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bear in mind that this is restricted to Debian Linux users with popularity stats turned on, so the true number is likely much higher) < 1204145869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3 used CLC-INTERCAL < 1204145883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either the total installed numbers have gone down, though, or my memory of them was wrong < 1204145931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, add one to the C-INTERCAL stats for me, because although I use Ubuntu, I don't have C-INTERCAL installed from packages as I'm the maintainer and have my own newer test versions < 1204146071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do show up on the CLC-INTERCAL stats, I think) < 1204146119 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think lightning-fast mental math is neat: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/199 < 1204146177 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1204146195 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1204146203 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204146204 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204146306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- GregorR has left this server (Success). < 1204146321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no double quotes, so that was a server-generated quit message < 1204146329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably a case of errno=0 but an error happened anyway) < 1204146332 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1204146341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came across a program recently which was exiting with "success" as the error message < 1204146349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was using perror but nothing had set errno < 1204146377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently on that system mmap doesn't always set errno on failure) < 1204146380 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that video seems to have no image < 1204146416 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there supposed to be one? < 1204146445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I don't understand what you're trying to say, can I have some context or did you type into the wrong channel? < 1204146458 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the video that RodgerTheGreat posted < 1204146462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you're referring to RodgerTheGreat's comment < 1204146485 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunh. Tried refreshing? < 1204146492 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204146498 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I missing much < 1204146511 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1204146523 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the audio will honestly give you most of it < 1204146735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1204146781 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the "missing digit" one is via casting out nines, I suspect < 1204146842 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the previous ones are simplified by knowing your times tables up to 100 < 1204146896 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoguh eh might not < 1204146932 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to recall the Lewis Caroll technique for finding the day of the week of a date. < 1204147113 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, he is using his tables up to 100 < 1204147156 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, nice memorisation hack < 1204147160 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though it is standard) < 1204147218 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty simple techniques, he simply applies them with tremendous speed and accuracy < 1204147317 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the same kind of thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIiDomlEjJw < 1204147404 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, see the tale of richard feynmann and the abacus-seller < 1204147432 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1204147582 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, in the book "Surely You're Joking Mr Feynmann" < 1204147587 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a great book for any geek < 1204147600 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard it's very entertaining. < 1204147608 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... lemme see how much it is on Amazon... < 1204147667 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about $8 including shipping. < 1204147707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read it too < 1204147717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good book, but the sequel is much worse < 1204147728 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequel? < 1204147730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't remember what the sequel is called) < 1204147738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably because it wasn't very good) < 1204147750 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazon should know < 1204147758 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or WP for that matter < 1204149164 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow: http://www.pdp8.net/sound/sound.shtml < 1204149188 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204149496 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1204149943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"my quit message will never be as good as GregorR's :(" < 1204153603 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204153876 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes. < 1204153923 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bais < 1204155253 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1204156449 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204157402 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204157570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204158083 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there 8.388.606 different values for NAN :o < 1204158122 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also independant of the sign bit. So 16 millions :o < 1204158159 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more the merrier! :-P < 1204158166 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :celebrating diversity! < 1204158192 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't want to be racist and all, but if someone isn't a number, he should go back to his country. < 1204158267 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, there were political issues with excluding so many non-numbers from the standard < 1204158302 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Affirmative action strikes again! < 1204158318 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't see them giving a third value to the infinities! < 1204158321 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sickening. < 1204158980 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204160569 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1204161759 0 :Overand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting" < 1204161761 0 :Overand!i=overand@dissociative.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204161777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204162873 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204170109 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight everyone < 1204170249 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204170435 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=gCh-fOTGgks&feature=related < 1204170437 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1204170440 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1204170441 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1204172023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why D:? < 1204172140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, besides the sucky attempt at singing < 1204172305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also horribly written. < 1204172330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped at 'Formally, a Turing can be defined as'. . . < 1204172341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just *ouch*. < 1204172354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My music-loving soul wants to execute him. < 1204172355 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He won't win no gold. < 1204172398 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good program to deal with graphs? < 1204172406 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus point for visualisation. < 1204172430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good way of embedding a graph in LaTeX? < 1204172441 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that would be able to deal with some transformation on the graph, so that I might try to build the Andrei machine. < 1204172444 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9000. < 1204172784 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't dare to google "graph". < 1204174247 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gato.sourceforge.net/ < 1204174248 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahah! < 1204174429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION posts on Fark: Completely 100% irrelevant and off-topic, but when I see someone say "gObama", I immediately think of gOS.. Is Obama sponsored by Google? < 1204174429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/waits for someone to not recognize a joke < 1204174429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://darn < 1204174433 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw shit. I need some modules. < 1204174442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3430569 < 1204176464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204176595 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. < 1204176616 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble sleeping, because I have a graph doing the Fibonacci jig in my head. < 1204179778 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1204181670 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204183229 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204183863 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1204183906 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1204185131 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :we < 1204185138 0 :we!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :u < 1204185142 0 :u!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION farted < 1204185159 0 :u!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION r teh ..... what should i put here? < 1204185253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_Thant < 1204185315 0 :u!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ask freenode to unban "you" as a nick < 1204185367 0 :u!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :me < 1204185398 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * you hit! < 1204185398 0 :me!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows better than to start a sentence with "me", that's why he's changing his nick to "I" < 1204185400 0 :me!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :I < 1204185411 0 :I!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changed my nick < 1204185416 0 :I!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1204185480 0 :I!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1204185523 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1204185526 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204185599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1204185600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1204185638 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh < 1204185639 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- This nickname may not be used. Please choose another. < 1204185639 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- If you do not change within one minute, you will be disconnected < 1204185640 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- This nickname may not be used. Please choose another. < 1204185640 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- If you do not change within one minute, you will be disconnected < 1204185645 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- This nickname may not be used. Please choose another. < 1204185645 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- If you do not change within one minute, you will be disconnected < 1204185646 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- This nickname may not be used. Please choose another. < 1204185646 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] --NickServ-- If you do not change within one minute, you will be disconnected < 1204185657 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh again i didn't mean to do that < 1204185676 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1204186051 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. "you" is out. "I" is out. < 1204186054 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :we < 1204186071 0 :we!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if NS will let me register "I" and disable that protection... < 1204186073 0 :we!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :I < 1204186097 0 :tejeez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204186097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204186099 0 :I!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1204186099 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1204186167 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1204186191 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1204186271 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :u < 1204186280 0 :u!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will like me having this nick or else < 1204186286 0 :u!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :yu < 1204186565 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will say something < 1204186658 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION WILL follow the directions on this sign. The sign says "Stop. Drive sideways." < 1204186675 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"three types of ball are offered. They are one. two. three." < 1204186922 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In my attempt to kill a fly, I drove into a telephone pole." < 1204186933 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The telephone pole was approaching fast. I was attempting to swerve out of its path when it struck my front end." < 1204186943 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "The guy was all over the road. I had to swerve a number of times before I hit him." < 1204187096 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1204188734 0 :jix!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204191048 0 :tejeez!n=tejeez@dsl-lhtgw2-fea7dc00-42.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1204191267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1204191429 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204191430 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204191431 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@iruel.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1204191478 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204191478 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204191574 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204191646 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204195166 0 :jix!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204196009 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204196032 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204196712 0 :mental!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204196732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1204198579 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204200029 0 :jix!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204200178 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1204200248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1204200276 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1204201277 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204201504 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204202095 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-122.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204204692 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204204975 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1204205531 0 :jix!n=jix@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204207074 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204207675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in brainfuck, is it the case that a + or - directly in front of a "," can be optimized away? < 1204207697 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-79-201.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204208519 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204208521 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204210140 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204210180 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204210310 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's in front of a , you can probably remove it < 1204210358 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204210461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_, hm ok < 1204210475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also strings of + and - can be optimized < 1204210478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ++- < 1204210480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to just + < 1204210497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pondering a brainfuck optimizer < 1204210522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that is obvious (in the compiler or interpreter), replace [-] or [+] with "zero cell" opcode < 1204210916 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I get the Profile module for Python? < 1204212154 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of writing a hyperexponentiation program in bf < 1204212228 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a trinary operator (x,h,y) where it computes x^^..h..^^y < 1204212408 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... seems a little hard maybe < 1204212434 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's trying to write an addition program on a Kolmogorov machine < 1204212465 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204212490 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1204212556 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204213702 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204213741 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204213807 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204214438 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1204214458 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204215479 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204215562 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobar < 1204215814 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1204215817 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis has been spamming again < 1204215857 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: brainfuck optimization is pretty advanced these days < 1204215864 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff you have talked about is 3-line stuff < 1204215877 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays we optimize linear loops to O(1) and multiplication and everything ;O < 1204216126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, ah < 1204216135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, can you point me to an example of that? < 1204216166 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of what < 1204216166 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm sure EsCo can satisfy all your BF needs! < 1204216169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: tee hee < 1204216203 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://mazonka.com/brainf/bff4.c this optimizes linear loops to O(1) if compiled with -DLNR < 1204216212 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mazonka.com/brainf/index.html some benchmarks < 1204216215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1204216241 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the fastest bf interp out there < 1204216271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1204216278 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to use ints, though, not chars < 1204216281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write a bf frontend for gcc < 1204216290 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1204216292 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point?| < 1204216299 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc wouldn't be able to do much to the code < 1204216303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, cross platform :P < 1204216307 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESO1's reference will include a fast bf interp and compiler anyway < 1204216312 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what < 1204216315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86, x86_64, whatever arch you want < 1204216321 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling to machine code is pointless for BF < 1204216334 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile to good C, and then gcc -O3, because gcc can spot idioms better than you < 1204216337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in C. < 1204216340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, nah you could do common code reduction to "un-inline" it < 1204216345 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1204216351 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gcc is not suitable for this < 1204216355 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.swapped.cc/bf/ <-- the reigning champ interp before bff4 < 1204216356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for size that could be nice < 1204216358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, hm true < 1204216392 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh -- and bff4.c doesn't do interactive input < 1204216395 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dbfi < 1204216398 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog!input < 1204216404 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no luck running e.g. lostkng.b on it < 1204216419 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the ESO1 reference suite will be the best one out there when it's worked on, i'll bet < 1204216422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, aww < 1204216422 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could do lostkng!the solution < 1204216427 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just watch it! < 1204216428 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: hehe < 1204216431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well I want interactive input < 1204216433 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lostkng is only slow in startup < 1204216434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's important for me < 1204216440 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.swapped.cc/bf/files/bff-1.0.3.1.tar.gz < 1204216445 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. < 1204216451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll mod bff4.c for interactive. < 1204216455 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should just take a mo. < 1204216456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, or I could mod it < 1204216460 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw < 1204216462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a C programmer too < 1204216462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm far cooler < 1204216463 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1204216474 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the style of code in bff4.c < 1204216475 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so opaque < 1204216494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, possibly, but I'm way geekier, I updated mosaic to support basic xhtml and plan to make it good enough to use it as my normal browser < 1204216496 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a programmer at all  < 1204216496 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you people and your fancy code! < 1204216497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm mad! < 1204216500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BHAHAHAHA! < 1204216512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1204216516 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would you want to do that, though? < 1204216522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozaic isn't even useful, like lynx is < 1204216525 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's hook up AnMaster on PSOX < 1204216527 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just crap < 1204216528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, because it make ppl ask why I want to do it < 1204216531 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: gawd no :D < 1204216532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1204216536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is PSOX? < 1204216546 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm way geekier, i started making an OS once! :( < 1204216548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, and I run a gopher server < 1204216548 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucked, sure, but hey < 1204216552 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it to print hello world :| < 1204216560 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX < 1204216589 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox < 1204216590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm, what's on the other side of the scale of minimalism < 1204216591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is horrid < 1204216595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not listen to it AnMaster! :( < 1204216598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is near the bottom < 1204216602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is at the top? < 1204216604 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: malbolge < 1204216604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal? < 1204216605 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or intercal < 1204216612 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unikitten < 1204216613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orr < 1204216613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORK < 1204216616 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: well, yeah < 1204216619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well malbolge doesn't have a lot of opcodes < 1204216620 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unikitten is the most bloated thing out there < 1204216629 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/ORK < 1204216631 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just verbose though < 1204216636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX <-- wowowowow though < 1204216638 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, once it exists. < 1204216651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unikitten? < 1204216651 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's horrid < 1204216655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo doesn't know what malloc() is < 1204216656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tried lolcode? < 1204216663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo? < 1204216664 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he thought a good 'networking' domain was HTTP < 1204216665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1204216668 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: PSOX maintainer. < 1204216674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1204216682 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lolcode isn't very esoteric. < 1204216683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well what do you mean not know malloc? < 1204216686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_, that's true < 1204216691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he had no idea what it was < 1204216691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolcode is just weird < 1204216694 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just none < 1204216698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, err, weird < 1204216704 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he only knows Python.. < 1204216705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't code C without knowing it < 1204216712 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't even know basic brainfuck algorithms, really < 1204216717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well if it is written in python? < 1204216718 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's probably watching me say this right now < 1204216724 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1204216729 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but it would affect the architechtural stuff of it < 1204216743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, just bohem-gc *runs* < 1204216754 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boehm gc has malloc. < 1204216755 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1204216758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use bohem-gc, for a leak detector :) < 1204216764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use boehm-gc. < 1204216768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's excellent. < 1204216771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with valgrind and mudflap it is quite useful < 1204216775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for real GC) < 1204216789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it isn't, how do I register an allocation from X for example < 1204216790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1204216794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X allocated a widget < 1204216800 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you asked this last time < 1204216801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to place some pointers in widget < 1204216806 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because manuals are too difficult to read for you, apparently < 1204216810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, yes I read the docs, and found no way < 1204216814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1204216826 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: go ask in #c < 1204216832 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cba to explain < 1204216842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, "cba" means? < 1204216859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well #c is an unfriendly channel < 1204216867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1204216893 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure is < 1204216897 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has PoppaVic < 1204216902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba=can't be arsed < 1204216906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, exactly! < 1204216915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I read the docs < 1204216920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the header files < 1204216931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still no idea how to tell it about an already malloced object < 1204216958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried GC_add_roots, no idea why it didn't work :/ < 1204217085 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if( strchr(",.",a) ){ a=getbf(); continue; } < 1204217095 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getbf only litsens to BF instructions < 1204217098 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so surely, this is a bug < 1204217195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, the getbf? < 1204217201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the GC_add_roots? < 1204217358 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, Gregor -= CMU :P < 1204217363 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204217529 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Those guys made CMUCL. You don't want to be anywhere near them! < 1204217531 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x) ehird@ehird-desktop ~/LostKingdomBF $ ../bff4 LostKng.b < 1204217532 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204217535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doggarn! < 1204217542 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1204217628 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: have you ever looked at bff4.c? :P < 1204217635 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1204217654 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1204217667 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso1's reference interpreter/compiler needs a name. < 1204217670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, someone need to use better variable names < 1204217674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more comments < 1204217684 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the source is not that hard to understand; just at first < 1204217691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbose c code is horrible < 1204217732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, true, but so is obfuscated as well < 1204217744 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ain't obfuscated < 1204217763 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is obfuscated C: http://nsl.com/papers/origins.htm < 1204217777 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's more, that guy actually writes all his C like that, and seriously < 1204217778 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1204217813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that < 1204217850 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: APL. < 1204217854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also made K. < 1204217856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL? < 1204217859 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1204217873 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/read.k < 1204217874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some k code < 1204217877 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translates k to english < 1204217878 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-7-52.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204217892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1204217900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be run on itself < 1204217911 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/xhtml.k this parses xhtml < 1204217950 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: KDB, a very widely used, fast, stable etc. database program, used by loads of finance stuffz, made by Kx systems (same people as K, obviously), is written in K < 1204217956 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and according to them, contains 0 loops < 1204217962 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy crap < 1204217972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why no loops? < 1204217976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with loops? < 1204217979 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's an array programming language < 1204217997 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scalar values in K etc are just 0d arrays < 1204218002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1204218009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 + 1 2 3 == 2 4 6 < 1204218010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why no loops? < 1204218017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically all operations are generalized across arrays < 1204218019 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could write C code like that < 1204218024 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to loop over an array < 1204218034 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that's the style of array programming languages < 1204218036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, ok, but on hardware level it would loop < 1204218039 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: me too! it's not easy. < 1204218044 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gosh, really < 1204218050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought faeries did it < 1204218055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1204218064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, anyway what's so nice with "no loops" < 1204218073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why would anyone boost with it? < 1204218074 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's array programming language style. < 1204218079 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would disagree with anyone who told me it WAS C code unless I knew already < 1204218083 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they obviously prefer it < 1204218105 0 :Slereah-!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204218135 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/papers/unlambda.htm unlambda in k < 1204218156 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k? < 1204218159 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention that in K it's actually shorter & more trivial to write a gui app than a console one? it's really, really weird < 1204218190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/papers/befreak.htm this interp+gui = http://nsl.com/k/befreak.k < 1204218230 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1204218275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, where can one read about the k language itself? < 1204218289 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/14/22741/791 < 1204218294 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that introduces it very gently. < 1204218300 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i must warn you though; it's not open source < 1204218305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, ah < 1204218309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I won't use it < 1204218315 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kx systems used to offer a free interpreter for most systems, but they appear to have stopped < 1204218330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, couldn't someone make an open source compiler for it (why would anyone want that?) < 1204218339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: compiler, no. < 1204218342 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter, yes. < 1204218346 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the k library is huuuuuge < 1204218352 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it would be feasable to reproduce it < 1204218361 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without years and years of stuffs < 1204218396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library hm? < 1204218447 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all its stdlib < 1204218447 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204218451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. more than the basic lang < 1204218451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1204218460 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which already uses most characters on a keyboard, I'll venture < 1204218739 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204218920 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204218926 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, Kolmogorov didn't have I/O on his mind with his machine. < 1204219002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef enum { < 1204219002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ADD, < 1204219002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MOVE, < 1204219002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SET, < 1204219002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHILE, < 1204219003 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IF, < 1204219005 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : INPUT, < 1204219007 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OUTPUT < 1204219009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} op_t; < 1204219011 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should expand that, sometime. < 1204219028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, hm? < 1204219032 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it for? < 1204219097 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi < 1204219110 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ESO1 reference interpreter < 1204219286 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'It's impractical to program in BrainFuck.' GENIUSES, ON THE INTERNET < 1204219312 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? Where! < 1204219325 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some ridiculous forum < 1204219340 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lynxplz < 1204219370 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1204219466 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-: how can you optimize linear loops, actually? < 1204219466 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1204219470 0 :Sgeo[College]!i=897d6898@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-261af8ab0619bff8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204219474 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[++>--<+++>>>-<+>--<<++<+>-<-] < 1204219474 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1204219476 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait.. < 1204219487 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i have no idea how you can optimize that < 1204219487 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I'm not the one who can optimise BF! < 1204219496 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr why am I not connecting to Sine? < 1204219525 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: can you connect to Sine? < 1204219546 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could try to run what's inside and look at the results. < 1204219549 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1204219554 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should: < 1204219556 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then change it to something more efficient < 1204219564 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you have a program going right 4357345 cells < 1204219567 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then back to cell 1 < 1204219571 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if GC would be useful < 1204219578 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-: I meant, algorithmically. < 1204219592 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was my algorithmical idea. < 1204219602 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not the algorithm expert. < 1204220056 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[++>--<+++>>>-<+>--<<++<+>-<-] ... Optimizing ... [+++++>-->>-<+>--<<++<+>-<-] ... < 1204220067 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, I spy bf < 1204220119 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algorithm : < 1204220160 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post loop to wildhalcyon < 1204220160 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait for answer < 1204220171 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+++++>-->>-<+>--<<++<+>-<-] ... Optimizing ... [+++++>-->>-<+>--<<++<>-<] ... < 1204220240 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+++++>-->+++>->---<] < 1204220240 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I doin it rite? < 1204220249 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+++++>-->>-<+>--<<++<>-<] ... Optimizing ... [+++++>-->+>---<<++<>-<] ... < 1204220264 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours seems correct < 1204220291 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.. maybe not < 1204220457 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<>" < 1204220465 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that can be optimized out? < 1204220472 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the correct optimization: [+++++>->+>---<<<] < 1204220505 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: But.. < 1204220508 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bff4.c < 1204220513 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says it optimizes balanced <> loops into O(1) < 1204220524 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mazonka.com/brainf/bff4.c < 1204220543 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh? < 1204220558 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Well, that optimization of yours isn't O(1). < 1204220570 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1204220571 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not O(1) < 1204220572 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one setp < 1204220575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*step < 1204220583 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that's possible < 1204220613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Take a look at its code < 1204220617 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either, but it does do it. < 1204220667 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, now I have to read code. Today is just sucky. < 1204220695 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its not one step. He uses a for loop. < 1204220959 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204220972 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is optimized, but not to O(1), only to O(n) where n is the number of cells traversed in the linear loop. < 1204221179 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Ah. < 1204221193 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: So not that much of an optimization? < 1204221210 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it depends on how badly the code is written, but in general, no, not really an optimization. < 1204221223 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might help with compiled; e.g. lostkng.b, I guess. < 1204221243 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, bfi&bfc will include it. < 1204221283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon, how did you optimize above < 1204221287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1204221288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [+++++>-->>-<+>--<<++<>-<] ... Optimizing ... [+++++>-->+>---<<++<>-<] ... < 1204221299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway <> is redundant < 1204221330 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, it is < 1204221341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon, anyway how did you do do convert it? < 1204221344 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing it in steps < 1204221347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1204221353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon, but how? < 1204221354 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that, I abandoned that approach and tried something much faster < 1204221386 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go through the loop and number each ">" or "<" by what cell it ends up pointing to < 1204221397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1204221407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that makes sense < 1204221410 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the original loop looks like this: [++1--0+++123-2+3--21++0+1-0-] < 1204221417 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, just sort and group the terms together < 1204221427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1204221436 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove the extra arrows, and any cancelling positive and negative signs. < 1204221438 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it < 1204221492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm, bf is really RISC :) < 1204221531 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most esolangs. < 1204221592 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more instructions usually mean convenient programming. Last time I checked, esolangs were the opposite of convenient. < 1204221636 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, convenient programming? We don't like convenient programming here! < 1204221637 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowzers, gcc can optimize pure functions < 1204221640 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost a FP compiler < 1204221641 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1204221648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-, intercal :) < 1204221675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, of course it can, when marked with __attribute__((const)) iirc < 1204221704 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204221708 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's there too < 1204221709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1204221709 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1204221713 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__attribute__((pure)) < 1204221718 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it optimize it just like a mathematical operator < 1204221720 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subexpression stuff, etc < 1204221721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, difference is in pointers iirc < 1204221732 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFI_GCC_ATTR((noreturn, format(printf, 4, 5))) void bfi_die(bfi_err_code, int, int, char *, ...); < 1204221735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugliest definition EVAR < 1204221759 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have the attribute declarations on a line, but then it's too long, so the whole funcdef itself has its own line < 1204221768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1204221770 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this: < 1204221771 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define BFI_FOPEN(fn, md) \ < 1204221771 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (fopen((fn), (md)) || \ < 1204221775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((BFI_ERR(BFI_ERR_FOPEN, "BFI_FOPEN(%s, %s) - %s", #fn, #md, \ < 1204221777 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strerror(errno))), NULL)) < 1204221778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, agreed, you can just do: #ifndef __GNUC__ #define __attribute__(x) /**/ #endif iirc < 1204221779 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i still haven't perfected yet < 1204221786 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1204221789 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1204221795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to define anything not BFI_ or bfi_ prefixed. < 1204221803 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be non-conflicting all the time :-) < 1204221863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define BFI_ERR(code, fmt, ...) \ < 1204221863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (bfi_die((code), __FILE__, __LINE__, (fmt), __VA_ARGS__), return (code)) < 1204221864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well I'll make a C compiler called bficc then? (Basic Functional Integrated C Compiler, don't ask me what THAT means...) < 1204221865 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda ugly. :D < 1204221872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh. < 1204221875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, and C99 < 1204221876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1204221886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if it's c99 < 1204221889 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need variadic macros < 1204221892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it's great :) < 1204221894 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest will be ansi c < 1204221897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION codes C99 too < 1204221900 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you're right.. i really want c89 < 1204221902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for ESO < 1204221906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this interp should work in 845793845345 years < 1204221906 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1204221912 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: could i do this: < 1204221921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myprintfalikemacro(a,b,("x",y,z),abc) < 1204221925 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since cpp would treat that as one arg < 1204221935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFI_ERR1(code, fmt, arg1); BFI_ERR2.... < 1204221937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on? < 1204221945 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, dunno how to splice that into the printf call though < 1204221947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw some c89 code doing something like that < 1204221948 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: meh < 1204221955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, up to ARGS10 < 1204221959 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1204221963 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just do 3, for now < 1204221975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, for doing one function definition, for K&R C and ANSI C < 1204221977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1204222018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define ARGS2(t,a,u,b) \ < 1204222018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (t a, u b) < 1204222023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ANSI C < 1204222031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the K&R version around still < 1204222039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, horrible < 1204222044 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the only interpreters/compilers that will be ESO-approved as reference implementations are either ANSI C89 or languages with an interp approved by es < 1204222045 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1204222059 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have a stack of 4 interpreters, as long as you have ANSI C89 at the bottom. < 1204222066 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are designed to be the most portable out there. < 1204222073 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need to be the prettiest code on earth < 1204222084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, so? GCC 4 can be compiled with a C89 compiler I bet < 1204222092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called bootstrapping < 1204222100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, problem solved :) < 1204222107 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are amusing < 1204222117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, huh? < 1204222131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC does suported staged bootstrap < 1204222184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, in any case, that means you are free to code C99 I think? < 1204222185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1204222191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so not the point < 1204222202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1204222225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even use GCC specific extensions < 1204222227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1204222302 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly; why do you think a lot of projects don't? < 1204222305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your idea is ridiculous < 1204222319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is :D < 1204222504 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is beautiful: < 1204222507 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *foo = BFI_MALLOC(43594357934857435); < 1204222507 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1204222512 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *foo = (malloc(43594357934857435) || (((bfi_die((BFI_ERR_OOM), "test.c", 6, ("BFI_MALLOC(%s)"), ("43594357934857435")), return (BFI_ERR_OOM))), ((void *)0))); < 1204222557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1204222563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why such a large malloc < 1204222570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, and this will fail at: < 1204222574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x = 4; < 1204222582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *foo = BFI_MALLOC(x++); < 1204222584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1204222592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly ++x < 1204222597 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a large malloc to test my error handling < 1204222597 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1204222600 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure it will < 1204222605 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's because the user is an idiot < 1204222607 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1204222609 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it won't < 1204222613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, hehehe :) < 1204222615 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be < 1204222626 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *foo = (malloc(++x) || (((bfi_die((BFI_ERR_OOM), "test.c", 6, ("BFI_MALLOC(%s)"), ("++x")), return (BFI_ERR_OOM))), ((void *)0))); < 1204222630 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the argument is stringified < 1204222636 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that on purpose, to avoid re-evaluation < 1204222646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, heh , the # operator iirc? < 1204222649 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204222654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in C89? < 1204222655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1204222659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be less useful since you don't get the actual int, actually < 1204222661 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is, AnMaster < 1204222664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1204222673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may make it reevaluate for the sake of better error messages < 1204222676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assume the caller isn't an idiot. < 1204222692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, BFI_MALLOC(rand()) *runs* < 1204222706 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I said something about the caller not being an idiot < 1204222716 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiiit < 1204222717 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't do < 1204222719 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, return b) < 1204222730 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crappers, how am i going to make BFI_MALLOC expressionable then < 1204222739 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be able to return from the function it's called in < 1204222743 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why its a macro in the first place < 1204222752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1204222756 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1204222757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, longjmp ;P < 1204222765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which requires a setjmp. < 1204222773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 1) a macro that calls 2) a function for most of it's stuff < 1204222775 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a variable decl, which i also can't expressionize < 1204222782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, AnMaster, that still doesn't help < 1204222783 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is < 1204222795 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to use BFI_MALLOC in an expression, because of 'void *p = BFI_MALLOC(...)' < 1204222801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the function doing that < 1204222803 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the malloc fails < 1204222803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1204222806 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must return BFI_ERR_OOM < 1204222821 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i cannot do, as far as i can see, in expression context < 1204222824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a gcc extension: < 1204222826 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({ ... }) < 1204222830 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, gcc extension. < 1204222830 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1204222836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, yes I know about that < 1204222859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, idea: use a different macro language first < 1204222863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lool < 1204222864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like first process file in m4 < 1204222870 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny, AnMaster < 1204222873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile result using normal C preprocessor < 1204222876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, and mad :D < 1204222906 0 :mental!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1204222965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best anagram evar < 1204222990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1204223278 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steraman < 1204223312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-, that's an anagram of my nick isn't it? < 1204223341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, aspell doesn't accept "Steraman" as valid, nor can I find any sub parts of it that are valid < 1204223345 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it is3 < 1204223351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An being my initials btw < 1204223367 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're doing MS Visio now < 1204223372 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has a certain super hero ring to it. < 1204223380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-, hrm true < 1204223382 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added two entities more than the slide we're copying had < 1204223383 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1204223393 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is about to die of boredom < 1204223404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is MS Visio? < 1204223426 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S also be my initial :o < 1204223430 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S. Lereah < 1204223521 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204223564 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1204223579 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais. Gregor R. Rodger the Great. < 1204223587 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a trend here. < 1204223602 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simon RC :o < 1204223653 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1204223759 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1204224085 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204224239 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204224378 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://you.presscue.com/node/550 < 1204224380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1204224383 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modularity ftw < 1204224527 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1204224538 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right click* < 1204224606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders: Is it a good or a bad thing that dying of boredom takes a long time :D < 1204224621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sgeo left < 1204224642 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. To a better place. < 1204224647 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May he rest in peace. < 1204224708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that risk recursion... < 1204225182 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1204225300 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that's pretty silly < 1204225301 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1204225320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-: oh wow, *right click*. as if apple still sold one-button mice. < 1204225348 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Now they have a middle button, that doesn't work like a right click at all :o < 1204225364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no. < 1204225368 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have left, right. < 1204225378 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mighty mouse also has a 3d scrollwheel which can be clicked and two side buttons < 1204225380 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not important. < 1204225390 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their right click most certainly works properly... < 1204225392 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orly? < 1204225392 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then my mom needs to buy a new mac :o < 1204225396 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right click, context menu, oh wao. < 1204225404 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -- most likely. < 1204225408 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or.. < 1204225410 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a new mouse. < 1204225518 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bp0.blogger.com/_XNXLcHFsW1U/R8Z894yBmcI/AAAAAAAACaQ/p4RK6SwloFM/s1600-h/306139.jpg < 1204225519 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loflgasm < 1204225741 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: lmao < 1204226153 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204226156 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204226199 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtw < 1204226204 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a free man now! < 1204226212 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you a slave before? < 1204226216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turned in his school-withdrawal papers today < 1204226230 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1204226294 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what will you do now! < 1204226384 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it's cliche, but i'm thinking of traveling and then starting my distillery < 1204226428 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what of prohibition! < 1204226501 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1204226516 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 21st ammendment was ratified 70 years ago < 1204226592 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're travelling, don't travel to the past then! < 1204226636 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are you talking about < 1204226655 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time travel. < 1204228591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap! i can't use getopt for bfi < 1204228607 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because: it's not standard C. :) < 1204228758 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it'd be a neat idea if my assembler could be instructed that a given chunk of data memory is "for constants" (ie, they will never be written to during execution), and then have it search the rest of the program for that value? < 1204228799 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if an instruction anywhere used the value 13, and you're looking for a 13, you just give the data half of that instruction as the address your constant 13 is stored, rather than using additional memory < 1204228872 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if used improperly, you could inadvertently create some really nasty self-modifying code situations, but if used properly, you could potentially squeeze many bytes out of the finished binary < 1204229027 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Whatever it is it should be done automatically. < 1204229030 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I combine this with some other ideas, I'll wind up with a very size-efficient compiler with *spectacular* results in out-of-bounds errors < 1204229034 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: yes, naturally < 1204229038 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: No -- I mean < 1204229041 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no src file change < 1204229069 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much better if users simply declare data as "constant" and then everything else is automated < 1204229077 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204229080 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too manual < 1204229107 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not doing that and still having it work is on the order of the halting problem < 1204229247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a general rule, you should not try to solve the halting problem in a hobby project. < 1204229257 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you should < 1204229263 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: anyway, herueruerueruerusitics < 1204229268 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, which is why I'm doing my way instead of ehird`'s way < 1204229421 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POLL: < 1204229436 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should bfi/bfc parse brainfuck from a file, or read it in first then parse a string? < 1204229892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfi_ins *bfi_parse(FILE *f, bfi_err_code *err) < 1204229892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1204229892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bfi_ins *res = (malloc(sizeof(bfi_ins)) || (((void *)0)), ((void *)0)); < 1204229892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!(res)) { if ((err)) { *(err) = (BFI_ERR_OOM); } return ((void *)0); }; < 1204229892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return res; < 1204229892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1204229895 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love you, cpp < 1204231693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1204231695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question... < 1204231703 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in brainfuck, you actually don't need a move instruction, do you? < 1204231707 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, a compiler doesn't need one < 1204231714 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1204231717 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do, for loops that > < 1204231730 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1204231779 0 :Sgeo[College]!i=897d294e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-68f7bfe54d57a805 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204232741 0 :Sgeo[College]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1204233608 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE RICK ROLL < 1204233674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're no strangers to rick roll < 1204233681 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooby dooby doo < 1204233690 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP < 1204233695 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN < 1204233696 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is love? < 1204233702 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing it wrong < 1204233703 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER GONNA RUN AROUND AND DESERT YOU < 1204233755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER GONNA CHOP YOU INTO LITTLE PIECES < 1204233782 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER GOING TO TELL A LIE AND EAT YOUR FAECES < 1204233790 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rhymed it! wooo < 1204233919 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: you wouldn't get this from any other guy < 1204233944 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1204233974 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite true. < 1204233999 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND DESSERT YOU < 1204234001 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, dessert < 1204234021 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bartender is so funny < 1204234156 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHOCOLAWT RANE < 1204234164 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOME STAY DRY AND OTHERS FEEL THE PAIN < 1204234165 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHOCOLAWT RANE < 1204234187 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BABY BORN WILL DIE BEFORE THE SIN < 1204234195 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now this is my story, all about how. < 1204234204 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life got twisted, turned upside down! < 1204234212 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd like you to just sit right there! < 1204234224 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell you I became the prince of a tow called Bel Air. < 1204234373 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1204234386 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear to me chocolate rain is about discrimination < 1204234591 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lofl, tay zonday covered rickroll < 1204234601 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1204234602 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did < 1204234623 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everyone asked him to! < 1204234836 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahhaahahha it's chocolate rain: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Chocolatepee.jpg < 1204234844 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it, get it, get it, hrrrr hrrr < 1204234851 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now *that's* a rickroll... luring someone into performing a cover of it :P < 1204235168 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204235356 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204235426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1204236030 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204236531 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1204238650 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen Malinowski's Fantasy in F: http://www.vimeo.com/93612 < 1204238685 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to make a tic tac toe on the love machine 9000 < 1204238726 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And trying to do it before tomorrow :o < 1204238747 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it. My mom finds it disastrously dissonant. < 1204238973 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that alliteration is effortless emphasis, but it took me about five minutes to come up with the phrase "effortless emphasis". < 1204238983 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1204239041 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hate the piano, with its diabolical diatonic scales." < 1204239183 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La boite diabolique? < 1204239269 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a boite? < 1204239344 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A box. < 1204239485 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is that French? < 1204239799 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1204239807 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was also in Look Around You. < 1204239818 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 19 forbidden notes, in LA BOITE DIABOLIQUE < 1204239841 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1204239974 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204240299 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: didn't you once have a little IRC thing called kilbot, which ran a simple game where people shot each other and tried to stay alive? < 1204240305 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you still have that? < 1204241307 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1204241451 0 :kilbot!n=kilbot@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204241461 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!join < 1204241461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people, when confronted with regular expressions, always think "I know, < 1204241462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll paste that Jamie Zawinski quote, and people will think I'm clever!" < 1204241462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These people have a problem. < 1204241467 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- omouse, reddit < 1204241468 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1204241469 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!join < 1204241480 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1204241480 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmd < 1204241483 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!start < 1204241484 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening a new game. Say !join to join. Say !start again to start. < 1204241490 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!join < 1204241491 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: You have already joined. < 1204241493 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1204241498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!start < 1204241499 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need more players. < 1204241519 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to say start before saying join. < 1204241527 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, someone has to say start. < 1204241556 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zawinski? < 1204241557 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!join < 1204241571 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1204241573 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!start < 1204241573 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game has started! < 1204241575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill ehird` < 1204241576 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Sometimes annoying, sometimes clever. Ex-Netscape hacker who now owns a nightclub with wifi and stuff. < 1204241576 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament shoots at ehird` < 1204241579 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241579 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird` shoots at lament < 1204241581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241581 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241581 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1204241582 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241582 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241582 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241582 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241582 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241582 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241587 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill ehird` < 1204241587 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Wait a bit... < 1204241589 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SUCKS < 1204241589 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1204241590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three lives eh < 1204241592 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241592 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241597 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: can i has src < 1204241599 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241599 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241604 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably you who suggested that stupid three lives idea < 1204241604 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Wait a bit... < 1204241608 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204241610 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's his quote? < 1204241610 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never played this < 1204241611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1204241621 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Some people, when confronted with a problem, think “I know, I’ll use regular expressions.†Now they have two problems. < 1204241629 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1204241635 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once tried to do that. < 1204241641 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill ehird` < 1204241642 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I had two problems D: < 1204241643 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sender + : You have already shot at ehird` < 1204241646 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!kill lament < 1204241647 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sender + : You have already shot at lament < 1204241651 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS STUPID < 1204241651 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sender + ??? < 1204241656 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: show me the src! < 1204241659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make it awesome. < 1204241665 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204241684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: i assure you it would be a better idea to start from scratch. < 1204241691 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is not pretty < 1204241696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to seeeee it < 1204241699 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also as you can see by the "sender +" < 1204241701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can rewrite it from scratch, obviously < 1204241717 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was actually in the process of changing the game around when i abandoned it < 1204241764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want the source! the entire message handler is one big multi-level if statement. < 1204241765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoooow < 1204241768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1204241770 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've written worse < 1204241770 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1204241776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you rewrite it in erlang or haskell < 1204241790 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for bonus points, in both < 1204241819 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1204241820 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but show me it first < 1204241827 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1204241887 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z3.ca/~lament/killbot.py < 1204241896 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z3.ca/~lament/irclib.py < 1204241898 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice domain name < 1204241905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1204241905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :403 < 1204241927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again < 1204241961 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore that it's in python and pretend that it's in perl < 1204241967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the ugly code makes more sense < 1204242024 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's not THAT bad. < 1204242046 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty bad. the only goodness in it is irclib.py, which isn't mine. < 1204242062 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I may rewrite it in Haskell. < 1204242072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Network.IRC -- though I wil lwrite my own lib sometime. < 1204242083 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Is there something actually specifying the game? The code is hard to follow. < 1204242127 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahaha. < 1204242133 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you! < 1204242140 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easier just to ask me < 1204242144 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ok < 1204242145 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider this an ask < 1204242156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since the rules of the game changed during development < 1204242175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game i originally implemented went like this: < 1204242194 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody says !start, then people say !join, then somebody says !start again which starts the game. < 1204242214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you say !kill nick to kill somebody (if both you and they are players) < 1204242230 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then... < 1204242250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can say !friend nick, which is really stupid because it means that now you can't kill them, but they still can kill you. < 1204242263 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you kill somebody, they're dead. < 1204242280 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game ends when the remaining players are all mutual friend. < 1204242282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1204242311 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then i modified those rules so that people have 2 lives < 1204242319 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you !friend nick < 1204242320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1204242321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only shoot the same person once < 1204242335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it takes cooperation of two people to kill somebody < 1204242375 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with two players, A shoots B, B shoots A and the game stalls. < 1204242416 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think killbot checked for that, so they had to !friend each other for a shared victory. < 1204242431 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to come up with less brain-damaged rules. < 1204242523 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly the same as that, except you can shoot people as many times as you want, the game ends after no shooting has been done for a while, and you can raise players from the dead. >:-) < 1204242533 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Now THAT sounds fun! < 1204242591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#kilbot, I guess. < 1204242745 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204242802 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahoy, Sgeo. < 1204242804 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: do it in erlang! < 1204242812 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: why :( < 1204242814 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is more fun < 1204242816 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know erlang < 1204242824 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it in Epigram! >:-) < 1204242834 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: erlang looks interesting < 1204242838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost mistook this for Sine < 1204242843 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering why lament was here < 1204242854 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That happens. :-) < 1204242881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd dragged so many people from here to sine < 1204242904 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's sine? :) < 1204242922 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's been described as a semi-private chat server. < 1204242941 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With roughly 30 people on it. < 1204242969 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1204242986 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204242992 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No password or anything is required, but you do need to know the server name and port number. < 1204243001 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The port number's relatively guessable. :-P < 1204243002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't that hard if you google for it actually. < 1204243009 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1204243040 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see. < 1204243067 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of "Creatures". < 1204243174 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1204243177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi calamari < 1204243187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention the new safety features I'm planning < 1204243201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ehird` wasn't there. Hey ehird, I'm planning some "safety" features < 1204243201 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really.. I guess I lost interest < 1204243217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ehird` to boil over < 1204243922 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204244533 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kilbot < 1204244538 0 :kilbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1204244934 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204246930 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1204248869 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lamenta < 1204248884 0 :lamenta!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1204248940 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1204248949 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lamentb < 1204249190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204249895 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204249896 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204249908 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204249908 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204252028 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]" < 1204254588 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204255621 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204256055 0 :yu!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204256492 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION made my client keep its nick and not revert to immibis! < 1204256499 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did it < 1204256502 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION DID IT! < 1204256510 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1204256517 0 :yu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1204256538 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid client < 1204256697 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204256750 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204257556 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204257606 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1204257760 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204258632 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204258730 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204258892 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204260682 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1204262685 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Can you see this quit msg?" < 1204263394 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204263686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204265090 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1204265402 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204265475 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204265659 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow oklopol is idle for 58 hours < 1204265737 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a hell of a comaz < 1204265764 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have a good long pour of whiskey < 1204265922 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always say "i don't like drinking", and then i get a bottle of bourbon and remember < 1204266528 0 :immibis!i=immibis@gateway/tor/x-08f8618f8e55d48c JOIN :#esoteric < 1204268914 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204269734 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1204269903 0 :immibis!i=immibis@gateway/tor/x-0852f3bc9c1006a7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204271482 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204271765 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204271999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1204272000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1204272406 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to" < 1204274247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1204282985 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204284868 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204286065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: don't worry, i was at a friends house, browsing porn, ircing and coding. < 1204286202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, god i made a braindead game :DD < 1204286211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi and check out crossworm < 1204286219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't yet found one person who can play that < 1204286224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for myself of course < 1204286229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you know, i'm a god. < 1204287282 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-79-201.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204291531 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204291908 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1204293735 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204296795 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. I'm thinking of this for the Andrei Machine I/O. < 1204296835 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At each step, the graph is travelled from 0 (or 1), to the next node. If there's more than one choice, it chooses the node of the lowest type. < 1204296869 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204296875 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type 2 would increase a register, 3 would output the register, and 4 be transformed in some sort of input. < 1204296894 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure it would be BF complete, but it's a start. < 1204298991 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1204299025 0 :jix!n=jix@dynamic-202-229.informatik.uni-bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1204301087 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204301992 0 :oklofok!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204302020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204302272 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy hell. Esolang is the first google result for bounded storage machine :o < 1204302290 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, there's only 7 results. < 1204302507 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204304807 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204305241 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204305506 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@pmuc-133.hfs.purdue.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1204305509 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at Purdue! < 1204305526 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it hurt? < 1204305531 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not particularly. < 1204305571 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204305779 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204306274 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@12.191.193.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204306386 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204306513 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if this thing still works. < 1204306534 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut? < 1204306541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing: < 1204306567 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1204306568 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS thing: < 1204306581 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your colon key? < 1204306595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up. my netcat is br0king < 1204306983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo '((lambda (x) x) (lambda (x) x))'|python lisp.py < 1204306983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) x) (lambda (x) x)) < 1204306983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (x) x) < 1204306983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda < 1204306983 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (x) x) < 1204306984 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda < 1204306986 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(error) Unbound variable lambda < 1204306988 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1204306990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1204306992 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but .. bizzare < 1204308556 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204308556 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204308601 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204308614 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1204308619 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204308629 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You succeeded < 1204308653 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204308671 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1204308671 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1204308674 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> lambda < 1204308674 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204308676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> lambda < 1204308677 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204308678 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 'lambda < 1204308679 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda < 1204308695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (lambda (x) x) < 1204308695 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204308699 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) x) < 1204308699 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, unexpected end of code < 1204308702 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) x) 'x) < 1204308703 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1204308706 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) x) (lambda (x) x)) < 1204308706 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204308729 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> + < 1204308730 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, unbound symbol: + < 1204308748 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)) ) < 1204308754 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)) ) < 1204308755 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204308760 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1204308762 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1204308762 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1204308764 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a sec. < 1204309122 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204309124 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: should be ok now < 1204309129 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) (x x)) < 1204309130 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, unexpected end of code < 1204309133 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha whut < 1204309133 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)) ) < 1204309134 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp < 1204309138 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1204309149 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) (x x) ) < 1204309150 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, unexpected end of code < 1204309156 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1204309156 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1204309163 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ( (lambda (x) (x x) ) ) < 1204309164 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, need 1 args, got 0 < 1204309168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) (x x))) < 1204309169 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, need 1 args, got 0 < 1204309172 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> lambda < 1204309172 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204309172 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204309174 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> = < 1204309174 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1204309177 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (= lambda lambda) < 1204309178 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)) ) < 1204309178 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp < 1204309178 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1204309182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> #t < 1204309183 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1204309183 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O noes! < 1204309184 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> #f < 1204309185 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1204309187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (not #t) < 1204309192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1204309193 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it died < 1204309194 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foo < 1204309198 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1204309200 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error, unbound symbol: not < 1204309203 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1204309204 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just lag < 1204309212 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: take it to #estoeric-blah? < 1204309214 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-blah < 1204309534 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204309537 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204309582 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204309653 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310169 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310243 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310251 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310406 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310412 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310470 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310490 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310495 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310574 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310859 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310907 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310936 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310941 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310959 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204310964 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204310994 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204311000 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204311013 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a normal algorithm? < 1204311146 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204311152 0 :lithpbot!n=lithp@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204311391 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204311494 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1204311496 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what a normal algorithm is < 1204311512 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a normal algorithm. < 1204311578 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you Gregor McGregor? < 1204311605 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1204311606 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM < 1204311606 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAN < 1204311612 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1204311636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: eso-std.org is giving me 403s < 1204311640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this supposed to be a technical term? i have some vague bell ringing < 1204311643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because there isn't anything there yet? < 1204311644 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite expected. < 1204311648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also correct. < 1204311663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 403 means that the website understands the request, but thinks you aren't allowed to know what the result would be < 1204311663 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I am not on my mac (again); therefore it might be a bit before ESO1 is completed. < 1204311669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, Markov < 1204311673 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kolmogorov is always ranting about it in his article. < 1204311681 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However -- < 1204311685 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's apparently some computing method done by Markov < 1204311687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er i was referring to normal algorithm < 1204311689 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am considering changing standard format. < 1204311705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the perils of asynchronous communication < 1204311710 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Side note: with all this un-maccery stopping me doing stuff, I should really consider a macbook...) < 1204311778 0 :lithpbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204311794 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1204311808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #ESO? < 1204311850 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1204311873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although i didn't know what 403 meant either :) < 1204311920 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a video on Youtube, with a fat indian chick teaching about finite state automaton. < 1204312717 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1204313636 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man Gregor McGregor < 1204313651 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, appears you're wrong < 1204313658 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no man page < 1204313662 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut? < 1204313828 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes the rubbet-band gun on the UF LotD < 1204313846 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can hold 288 rounds, and fire them all in 7 sec < 1204313865 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it kill? < 1204313891 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAFAICT < 1204314405 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-178-110.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1204314483 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1204314489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1204314719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses at the flu < 1204314770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I opened the window, and in flew Enza < 1204314775 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmn < 1204314792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wnats to have Lucid dreams < 1204314799 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1204314810 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes too much dedication though < 1204314819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1204314828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I'm so tired lately that I barely remember my dreams. < 1204314830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to http://www.stevepavlina.com/podcasts/Pavlina-010-Lucid-Dreaming.mp3 hopefully < 1204314839 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1204314839 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1204314853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Podcast about lucid dreaming apparently < 1204314861 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, setting aside 10-20 mins at the beginning of each day to write down dreams is supposed to be a good start < 1204314870 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is reading all about it all day < 1204314878 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the effect of that is breif < 1204314986 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1204314998 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204315064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read something in today's thread for xkcd about checking your irl watch habitually, which should supposedly carry over to dreams, where you'd notice something is wrong < 1204315080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1204315143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds that they can usually wake up whenever they want when they're aware they're in a dream < 1204315145 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps to think about ld while doing it though < 1204315162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but i already am a neurotic watch-checker. few lucid dreams though... < 1204315173 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you check in in dreams? < 1204315186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1204315189 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I cursed at myself recently... < 1204315201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't normally wear a watch < 1204315206 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got into a holy grail of semi-sleep states... < 1204315228 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conscious (though very tired) while my senses were bign disconnected from my body < 1204315271 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sensed a loud buzzing, and began to get a "buzzing"/"electric" feeling creeping over my body... < 1204315276 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I flinched damnit! < 1204315295 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had I stayed still, I should have gone quickly into lucid dreaming < 1204315473 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-20-42.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1204315495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, the topic makes my stomach churn a bit < 1204315501 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204315504 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly envy < 1204315530 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I get the same feeling on AFD, and I don't think envy applies there < 1204315581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFD? < 1204315592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Articles for Deletion < 1204315594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1204315596 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1204315599 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.fan.dragons < 1204315616 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inhabited mostly by people who thinke they're dragons < 1204315632 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suck as Pookie? < 1204315648 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1204315663 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no parse < 1204315665 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Alynna_Vixen < 1204315676 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "such" < 1204315678 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1204315813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: people like that are hilarious < 1204315830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.otherkin.net/index.html <-- best. webpage. ever. < 1204315907 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's much more insane < 1204316019 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems I have got distracted by all thwe furry links... < 1204316038 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell the 2040s are going to be fun < 1204316087 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C'mon we need more Christian suicide bombings of human genetic engineering clinics < 1204316106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as human genetic engineering gets really advanced < 1204316110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must kill all the furries < 1204316115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lest we see what they unleash onto us < 1204316118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1204316125 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I say Christian I mean the insane "god hates gays" righties, not the rest < 1204316132 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yup, you read my mind < 1204316167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 2043 will be about the time some people start trying to improve their children in the direction of furriness < 1204316182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It's funny, I've heard so much about these 'non-totally-crazy christians' and all the ones I've seen have been ones who basically don't believe in anything christian. < 1204316184 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the upside, gay people will sufddenly be getting much less hate < 1204316189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gradually they all become agnostics or atheists. < 1204316206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Well, there's Anonymous to think about then. < 1204316234 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, otherkin usually beleive they are a re-incarnation of a dragon are the victims of magical soul-trnasfer or whatever < 1204316260 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes them more emo that furriness olone would < 1204316263 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably) < 1204316266 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2043 is when furry will be 50 years old :o < 1204316266 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's plenty of elves-vampires-wolves-faery to go around, too < 1204316272 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at maybe more depressed < 1204316290 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again shows his Sign of the Times < 1204316328 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is triangular, line a road warning sign, with an exponential growth curve plotted on a graph... < 1204316330 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1204316352 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rectangular bit below says "warining, 21st century ahead" < 1204316469 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204316499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1204316504 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1204316660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1204316698 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I thought this conv was on a different channel... < 1204316700 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1204316742 0 :ehird!n=penguino@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204316745 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird: I was tralking about furries here and programming on that other place. < 1204316746 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're discussing monads on #isharia and furries here. < 1204316750 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1204316751 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS BIZARRO WORLD < 1204316777 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deedle-deedle-deedle-deedle < 1204316794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#isharia? < 1204316798 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isharia. < 1204316815 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of a boot up a man's ass forever. < 1204316819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furry muslims? < 1204316820 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now translate it to Nahuatl. < 1204316824 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Isharia < 1204316867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#isharia is empty. < 1204316892 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another server. < 1204316960 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sopecifically, sourcery < 1204316984 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host235-80-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1204316985 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except without the u < 1204317007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're in Discworld < 1204317416 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, yeah < 1204317681 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: hooray < 1204317704 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone say whore ray? < 1204317751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is wondering why bsmntbombdood aimed a message at oklofok when neither has said anyting here for quite a while < 1204317755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad science if there ever was < 1204317810 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1204318022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing online some device that was supposed to help you have lucid dreams.. < 1204318030 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD? < 1204318063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was something you wore over your eyes, and when it detected REM, it flashed lights repeatedly < 1204318069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that one < 1204318070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted that one < 1204318072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently; no longer sold < 1204318083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you had to train yourself whenever you see flashing lights, to do a reality check < 1204318101 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]" < 1204318105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many lucid dreamers are new agers. Sigh. < 1204318109 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want some lsd < 1204318117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOO USE YOUR DREAMS TO TOUCH INTO YOUR SPIRITUAL ENERGY AND WRAP AROUND THE NATURE < 1204318126 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1204318192 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits people over the head with a blog, particularly this post: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/universal_fire.html < 1204318200 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the successor < 1204318602 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1204318613 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book sounded good but is written like shit < 1204318651 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evasion_%28book%29 < 1204318700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As you get older, it will be even harder to lucid dream, and it starts getting difficult during the teenage puberty stage." http://www.wikihow.com/Lucid-Dream < 1204318702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1204318741 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn :( < 1204318767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1204319053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1204319071 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204319114 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1204319203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ehird < 1204319264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1204319476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: look what you've done now! < 1204319481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1204319508 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0F9CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1204319523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you welcomed ehird back and they quit immediately < 1204319567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Judofyr: welcome < 1204319579 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx :) < 1204319588 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is about to look at Glass < 1204319599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems I'm a bit more successful than Sgeo in welcoming people... < 1204319783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: GregorR is probably the best person to ask about that < 1204319788 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1204319795 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading his tutorial now < 1204319928 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204320372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!" < 1204320401 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204321314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants multiplayer lucid dreams! < 1204321315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, hi < 1204321322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1204321450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!" < 1204321471 0 :ehird!n=ehird@user-3e887a2d.tcl114.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204321637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dreamviews.com seems interesting < 1204322775 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1204322907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'll soon be too tired to say anything intelligible" < 1204323019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think what a fun game to play over irc would be < 1204323149 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1204323611 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"- nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -" < 1204323844 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1204324185 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: lol: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120425355065601997-7Bp8YFw7Yy1n9bdKtVyP7KBAcJA_20080330.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top < 1204325819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1204325915 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes. < 1204326159 0 :bigode!i=c950e15b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7191ea0d8e26b869 JOIN :#esoteric < 1204327539 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1204328084 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-238-252-202.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1204328543 0 :bigode!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"